Could you share with us what inspired you to pursue a career in law, and how did your journey begin back in 2008 in Delhi to your current role?
I am the first born lawyer in my family. However, I feel my grandfather and my father could have been great lawyers themselves. They had sharp acumen and while growing up I saw them discuss a lot of legal issues at home and I was enthralled by how laws, policies, and regulations shaped the world around me.
By the time I finished school, my mind was made up. The only question was what breed of lawyer I’d become. With India’s economy taking flight, corporate law stood out as the frontier practice – this new engine of business and innovation. I have worked in some renowned law firms like Indus, Mine & Young and worked on some good transactions. I have also worked in a startup as a legal manager which further helped me hone my skills as a lawyer and deeper understanding of the challenges faced by startups. Actually this has helped me fit perfectly into the environment of an in-house Legal Counsel for a big company in India, which has been a great experience for me personally. Post my move to Dubai in 2018, it was a slow start to start my career, it was kind of a restart. However, I was lucky to get a job here and started working as a corporate consultant for a firm which was more focused on litigation and arbitration matters. Thereafter, I got this amazing opportunity to head and build an Indian based law firm in Dubai and since then I have managed to work on various corporate matters and dive deeper into the corporate legal world in the UAE. It is with this opportunity that I was able to create network and build relations and eventually led to starting my own consultancy firm in Tashkent, Uzbekistan where I have been working on a big litigation matter and also consult investors/business locally and even those looking at CIS as a territory to expand their business beyond UAE/India
During your time at Indus Law Associate and Mine & Young, what were some of the key transactions that shaped your understanding of corporate law?
When I first joined Indus Law, a boutique firm punching well above its weight, I had no idea I was opening a gateway to the global marketplace. Despite its modest size, the firm’s client roster read a few multinational corporations, so right out of the gates, I was dealing with cross-border transactions. During my time at Indus Law, I worked on a lot of JVs and takeovers by International companies of Indian companies and vice versa, and I vividly remember the adrenaline-fueled all-nighters, the painstaking combing through contracts with fine-tooth cares – all amidst a whirlwind of takeovers, mergers and acquisitions. Those years were quite draining yet undeniably exciting. I made countless mistakes, learned on the fly, and had my conventional thinking upended daily. But I wouldn’t trade that experience for anything. It allowed me to get an insight and exposure to the globalized marketplace before age 30.
Which made my transition to a real estate law firm Mine & Young. After operating at startup speeds, I was now joining a firm which was one of the pioneers in real estate law. From high speed transactions I was now dealing with slow paced but high end and exclusive luxury property matters. Yet this seeming 180-degree pivot helped me develop an entirely new mastery that perfectly complemented my prior style and a whole new world unlocked. But it was in bridging those extremes where I found my greatest advantage as a lawyer. Constantly stretching between these dual disciplines was grueling, but also tremendously rewarding.
What motivated you to start Nicknanimous Consultants, and how has your experience been in balancing your role as a corporate lawyer in Dubai while managing your consultancy firm in Tashkent?
Well I had been visiting Tashkent regularly as my mother was working there.
And each time I visited the place and met the locals, I realized that the country had a lot of potential for growth. I quickly understood that any business that would enter Uzbekistan now, has the potential of holding a larger share of the market and expanding its business further into other CIS countries. Uzbekistan in the last recent years has been very welcoming to foreign investments and new FDI policies have been formed which are more investment friendly. Thus motivated me to start my own Consultancy through my own networks and relationships. I can help any business looking to expand, or explore Uzbekistan as a market and provide a complete end to end solution to set up their businesses there and at the same time giving local businesses an opportunity to explore UAE or India as a market.
I feel both the roles are interlinked. As a corporate lawyer, my role is intrinsically linked with understanding the nuances of my clients’ businesses. By working closely with clients, I gain deep insight into the challenges and opportunities they face. This allows me to not only provide legal counsel, but also connect the dots and advise on potential business strategies. My ability to understand the client’s business landscape puts me in a unique position to facilitate connections with potential investors or partners that could aid in their growth and expansion plans. Rather than merely offering legal services, I strive to be a comprehensive advisor – leveraging my network and business acumen to unlock new avenues for my clients’ success beyond just the legal realm. This synergistic approach provides comprehensive value that transcends traditional legal counsel.
Moving to Dubai in 2018 marked a significant transition in your career. What were some of the biggest challenges you faced, and Can you elaborate on the unique legal and business landscape in the UAE, especially how it differs from your experiences in India?
Yes I faced a significant transition when I began practicing as a corporate lawyer in the UAE back in 2018. At that time, the commercial laws were not as investor-friendly, and there were fewer SMEs entering the market compared to today’s booming ecosystem. However, I recognized that this marked the beginning of a new era, and I think I am fortunate to witness and adapt to this transition and growth in the country. One advantage I feel is that if a corporate lawyer has substantial exposure and transactional experience from practicing in India, which has undergone its own boom, it becomes much easier to establish a practice in the UAE now. This is because free zones, especially like ADGM, and some of the UAE corporate laws,have closely adapted common law systems in recent years, aligning with the legal frameworks familiar to lawyers from common law jurisdictions like India.
The primary challenge I think is the need to consistently stay updated on the rapidly evolving legal landscape in the UAE. As the country progresses at a rapid pace, new rules, regulations, and bye-laws are introduced frequently. Corporate lawyers must remain vigilant and continuously educate themselves to provide accurate counsel aligned with the latest legal developments. Overall, the opportunities are available for corporate lawyers in the UAE’s flourishing business environment, provided they can navigate the dynamic regulatory changes and leverage their prior exposure to common law practices.
Aside from your professional life, you also hold a diploma in Interior Design. How do you balance your personal interests with your demanding career, and does this creative side influence your work as a lawyer?
As a child, I was captivated by well-designed spaces and distinctive architectural styles from various eras and places. Whenever I traveled, I eagerly anticipated witnessing different architectural marvels that would fuel my fascination with interiors and design.
When the COVID-19 pandemic brought the world to a standstill, I seized the opportunity to explore my artistic side. I decided to formally study interior design, finally indulging my long standing passion.
I think in the legal field, creativity manifests itself in structuring intricate transactions, drafting contracts for innovative business models, and formulating strategies to navigate complex legal battles. While I agree law is firmly rooted in theory and research, the application of legal knowledge demands innovation and creative problem-solving abilities.
It is my dream to ultimately transition into the interior design industry as a second career after 50 years of age, following my tenure as a lawyer, leveraging the design skills I’ve cultivated alongside my legal training.
Nurturing personal creative outlets alongside one’s primary vocation is essential for a fulfilling life. My journey exemplifies how diverse interests can coexist, potentially converging into enriching experiences that span both professional and personal realms.
I hope my story inspires others to explore their unique combinations of passions and professions.
With over 12 years of experience, what advice would you give to young lawyers who aspire to have a versatile and dynamic career like yours?
The fundamental lesson is that hard work and diligence invariably pay off, regardless of the nature of the task at hand. One should never underestimate the value of any given work assignment, as those skills may prove invaluable at a later stage in life or career.
I vividly recall my time at Rainmaker, which presented a vastly different work experience that required a strong emphasis on client relationship building. At that juncture, I naively perceived this as a waste of time, believing I should focus solely on expanding my legal knowledge. However, in retrospect, those very skills in client relations that I honed during those days have become invaluable assets nearly a decade later.
Fresh out of law school, many of us aspire to become partners at firms or establish our own practices, without realizing the multitude of skills required beyond legal expertise to build and sustain a successful practice. Client relationships, business acumen, and interpersonal skills are equally crucial.
To young lawyers, I would advise treating every task with utmost respect and diligence. Embrace new challenges by venturing into unfamiliar legal domains, as this exposure expands both your legal knowledge and general awareness. Staying updated, maintaining an inquisitive mindset, conducting thorough research, and continuously acquiring new skills are imperative.
Networking is crucial in the legal field. How have you built and maintained your professional relationships across different countries, and how has this network benefited your clients?
Networking is a critical foundation for any entrepreneur or professional looking to create their mark, including in the legal field. It begins by actively attending and participating in industry events, staying updated on developments, being part of relevant forums,and most importantly, taking the initiative to proactively engage with others. Through years of my working experience, I’ve realized that many individuals, including lawyers, hesitate to approach and converse with new people at networking events due to shyness or apprehension. However, I must say that the UAE’s business landscape, which heavily relies on networking, offers a welcoming environment that helps newcomers overcome this hesitation. Additionally, being well-versed in one’s subject matter is crucial to maintain others’ attention and establish initial trust.
Even though visibility is paramount in the initial stages, over time, the quality of one’s work and the ability to maintain strong client relationships become the driving forces behind success and growth. In my case, referrals and the network I’ve built by meeting lawyers in the UAE, Uzbekistan, and India have been invaluable in expanding my reach and clientele. Effective networking involves a combination of active participation, subject matter expertise, visibility, consistent high-quality work, and nurturing professional relationships. Basically it’s an ongoing process that requires persistence, confidence, and a genuine interest in connecting with others in the industry.
Working across various jurisdictions, from India to UAE and Uzbekistan, what are some of the key legal and cultural differences you’ve encountered, and how have they influenced your approach to legal practice?
Each new territory has its own fresh challenges – different legal codes, cultural norms, business practices.
The UAE has a dual system comprising both Civil and Sharia Laws. However, in recent years, The free zones, especially the ADGM Courts, have directly applied English common law principles in matters brought before them. This development is advantageous for Indian lawyers who are familiar with the common law system.Additionally, many new corporate laws in the UAE mirror common law principles, making it easier for Indian lawyers to practice in the region. The familiarity with the legal framework streamlines their ability to navigate the UAE’s legal landscape.
On the other hand, Uzbekistan follows a civil law system, which differs significantly from the common law tradition prevalent in India. Despite both the UAE and Uzbekistan being Islamic nations, Uzbekistan’s legal system, local laws, and traditions are markedly influenced by its Soviet heritage, setting it apart from the UAE’s legal landscape.This contrast between the UAE’s increasing alignment with common law principles and Uzbekistan’s civil law system rooted in its Soviet past presents an interesting dynamic. It highlights the need for legal professionals to adapt their expertise and understanding to the nuances of each jurisdiction’s distinct legal traditions and influences.Navigating these varied legal systems requires a deep appreciation for the underlying principles, cultural contexts, and historical factors that have shaped their evolution. Even though all the three nations’ legal systems are very different from each other, yet that has become the thrill of the chase for me. Cracking the legal DNA of each new environment, then skillfully integrating it into transactions is exciting for me.
Your experience with startups is extensive. What common legal challenges do startups face, especially outside India, and how do you help them navigate these issues?
One of the most prevalent mistakes observed among startups is the tendency to neglect or overlook the importance of legally sound agreements, particularly during the seed funding round involving investments from family and friends. Failing to seek proper legal advice on structuring these investments can lead to complicated arrangements that deter future investors until the structure is properly rectified, thereby delaying business progress. It is crucial for startups to seek legal counsel before entering into any investment arrangements to ensure seamless operations.
For startups entering the UAE market, a common challenge is the lack of understanding regarding the appropriate business license to obtain based on their specific business activities. Many startups, unaware of the local laws, are often misguided when comparing the legal environment to their home countries or other jurisdictions they are familiar with.
This is where we, Alpha Partners, can play a pivotal role in guiding startups through the process of navigating and selecting the correct business structure that aligns with their objectives while adhering to legal restrictions. Comprehensive legal assistance is essential not only during the initial setup phase but also for ongoing support with general corporate commercial agreements and transactions post-establishment.
By addressing these challenges through timely legal guidance, startups can avoid costly missteps, ensure compliance, and establish a solid foundation for growth and attracting future investments. We at Alpha Partners, play a critical role in helping startups navigate the complexities of the UAE’s legal landscape and structuring their business operations for long-term success.
Can you share with us how your journey into law began? What inspired you to pursue a career in this field?
My journey with law started only incidentally. As a child finishing high school, all I knew of what I wanted to do – was join the corporate world, and be a corporate honcho – I wanted to walk in my father’s rather large shoes – as I had always seen him as a top corporate executive. But I soon learnt that engineering was not for me. No matter how hard I tried – I just didn’t grasp the concepts for JEE exams, while for my friends it was a piece of cake. Then someone told me of a few prominent corporate executives who were actually lawyers by training. Since I had always been a debater, the common opinion was that I would do well in law. That is what I wanted to do, complete my LL.B., do some work, pursue an MBA and then proceed with life. But clearly life had other plans. I started enjoying reading law in law school, and started performing well in Moot Court competitions. But even then I had no plans of pursuing law post my LL.B. Then one day in an international arbitration competition held in Delhi, I was awarded the best speaker, and more significantly, a scholarship to National University of Singapore for an LL.M. No one, in their right mind, can let such an opportunity go by and so that is how I went ahead and pursued my LL.M, even with no intention of continuing with law. When I returned to India, I decided to work in a law firm for about a year (or two) before I would go ahead for my MBA – as previously planned – but my tryst with law, started at JSA under Mr. Sumanto Basu, and that is when I fell in love with law, and with being a lawyer. I saw large corporations, value and plan entire business strategies based on the advice given by Mr. Basu, who in turn based his advice on the work done by us! That realisation was empowering and humbling at the same time. After this, there was no looking back.
You graduated from NLU Jodhpur and then pursued your LL.M from the National University of Singapore. How did your academic experiences shape your career in law, especially in international commercial laws?
Both NLUJ and NUS have had significant contributions to my life. These institutions helped create the foundation for the legal acumen, and the understanding of the principles of law and practice. I owe a lot to NLUJ of course, the fundamentals of our legal understanding, the basic concepts of law, jurisprudence, drafting and advocacy was taught to us, and ingrained in us by the alma mater. NLUJ taught us research methodology, how to articulate one’s opinion coherently in articles, and the art of persuasion – through moot court competitions. The plinth on which I have built my practice, was created at NLUJ. But I think even beyond the academic training, NLUJ played a very big role in the development of my personality. I don’t think law school, at the undergrad level especially, should be looked at only as a place to read and learn law. Much more importantly, this is a place where you’re mixed into a melting pot, and you learn a lot about yourself, and your relationship with the world.
NUS, because I was much older when I went there, and also because the LL.M. is only for a year or so – is where the focus was predominantly on academic rigour. I had the opportunity to sharpen the understanding and application of the laws. In an international LL.M., one is reading foreign law, which may or may not be relevant later. But that is precisely why an LL.M may be important. It trains you to read and comprehend all sorts of legislations – even those which you may not be able to relate to. What was very different in NUS for me, was the way examinations were held. Most of the exams were open – book exams, they didn’t want to assess one’s memory, but one’s understanding of the concepts. This forced me to learn to comprehend and articulate faster, rather than just mug things up. The LL.M. also taught me that there are multiple viewpoints available for the same issue, and that it often varies based on what one’s life journey has been and the culture / society one has been exposed to. This also became relevant and useful when interacting with other lawyers and arbitrators in the international context.
Starting your career at J Sagar Associates, you worked on both the transactional and litigation sides of law. How did this dual experience influence your professional development and perspective as a lawyer?
There is a marked difference in the way transactional lawyers and litigating lawyers deal with clients and with the mandate before them. In both, of course, you keep the client and the client’s interest at the forefront, but there is a difference in the approach. On the transactional side, the focus is on advice and in enabling the client to get a deal done. One is often batting for the client, against another party but, importantly, towards a common goal, i.e., arriving at an agreement, which is mutually beneficial to both the parties involved, and which will govern the relationship of the parties going forward. The understanding of the industry, the Client’s business, its weaknesses and needs, governs your advice and actions.
Whereas in litigation, it is almost always adversarial, where one has to strive to defeat the other side and their version – in order to make one’s own client win. Here, the facts of the case, the law, and the specific personality of the court / tribunal, are what reign supreme in the mind of the advocate. Of course, this is overly simplified, and a generalisation, but that there is a difference in the approach is clear. I can happily say that I thoroughly enjoyed both sides of the coin, but it is the litigating and adversarial side of the practice that I love. The fact that I have received invaluable training from prominent people in both these fields in JSA, I feel I have widened my viewpoint and perspective as a lawyer, which has helped me to grasp issues in a matter, and also comprehend the business realities which cause the clients to make certain decisions. Some of the law firms require freshers to be on rotation, and go through various practice areas for the first 6 – months or so. Given my experience, I think it’s wonderful and long may it continue.
You’ve had the opportunity to work under prominent figures like Mr. Vipin Nair and Mr. Gopal Subramanium. How did these experiences and mentors impact your approach to practicing law and handling significant cases?
My seniors have not merely had an impact on my approach to practicing law, they have all shaped me into the lawyer and the person I am today. My practice, and how I present myself in court and to other advocates / clients, is entirely a reflection of all my mentors and seniors. I have had a number of mentors in my life, but significantly, I must mention Mr. Sumanto Basu – who took me under his wing when I was an absolute fresher and who then taught me not just how to practice law, but even how to conduct myself. Mr. Amar Gupta – who was instrumental in my transition to litigation and who planted in me the love for litigation and court craft. Mr. Vipin Nair and Mr. P.B. Suresh taught me the tips and tricks of independent practice, advocacy, effective drafting and most importantly demonstrated how important it is to build a rapport with the Bench, other members of the bar and the court staff. From Mr Gopal Subramanium, of course, as a very senior and eminent senior counsel, I learnt how a person of his stature prepares for matters, deals with the pressure, the adulation and the criticism, and keeps the dignity of the Court and the need of the matter at the forefront.
Your practice covers a wide range of areas including corporate litigation, arbitration, and consumer law. How do you manage such a diverse portfolio, and what challenges have you faced in balancing these different specializations?
It isn’t about managing a diverse portfolio, I have a practice that covers a wide range of areas, purely because I enjoy a wide range of subjects and each area comes with its own style of pleading, practice, and its own jurisprudence. It is a lot more enjoyable (at least for me), and the issues and the clientele that I interact with are also dynamic and different. As far as I am concerned, it keeps the hunger and the attraction for the law and litigation going. Having said that, I must clarify that having a wide practice area is not unusual, there are several other counsels as well, who practice in several fora and we regularly meet each other in different courts. Those predominantly practice in one type of practice area, do so probably because they have attained true expertise in that field of law and therefore are now required to devote most of their time assisting the courts, and advising clients, in that area of legal practice.
You have been involved in several landmark cases, such as the class action matter involving data privacy and the whistleblower suit. Could you tell us more about these cases and what they mean for the legal landscape in India?
Both of these matters that have been mentioned, are sub – judice, and so I don’t want to get into them in detail. But in short, the data privacy matter is an interesting one, where medical data entrusted with a cloud storage service provider went missing. The service provider took the defence that no liability can be attributed to it, since it provided a back – up only in the more expensive version of its service. The complainant therein was aggrieved by this position since the complainant felt that such a defence cannot be taken when data (and sensitive data such as this) has been admittedly lost based on the negligence and internal glitch of the service provider. Recognizing that this will be an issue for all those who have not taken the more expensive version of the service, a consumer complaint, with an application to treat the same in the interest of the class of consumers was filed. The National Commission passed certain significant orders in the matter (although the matter is pending adjudication), the issue is now before the Supreme Court.
Clearly this is an important issue because this not only deals with the sensitivity with which data must be dealt with, but also as to whether a class action proceeding can be maintained for an issue such as this. With data becoming the currency in the new world, matters such as this, would certainly become relevant for the law to develop appropriately.
The whistleblower matter is another interesting matter, where a person brought to the attention of the internal management of a large MNC that unethical practices were rampant within the organisation. Pursuant to an internal investigation, the admitted whistleblower was terminated from the employment on the ground that he too had been involved in the said unethical conduct. The whistleblower filed a civil suit challenging the said termination claiming that this is an attempt to penalise the person for blowing the whistle internally. He has also filed a Writ Petition bringing to the attention of the Court the fact that the law in India is woefully inadequate as far as according protection to whistleblowers is concerned while several countries have robust laws to protect whistleblowers and to prevent retaliatory conduct. A Judgment of the court in this regard, will certainly have a major impact and may actually cause the law and businesses to provide realistic mechanisms to prevent unethical conduct and to protect those who wish to speak out against such conduct.
As someone who has achieved considerable success in the legal field, what advice would you give to fresh law graduates who are just starting their careers?
Its very nice of you to say so, I don’t know if I can be said to have achieved considerable success – as yet, but if I had to share a couple of my learnings with fresh law graduates, it would be this:
Know your subject and the law very well. Please read the law. This includes being updated with the recent judgments and reading the bare acts. I have come to learn that knowing the law really well puts you at an advantage on any side of the practice. There is simply no substitute for it and those who really become prominent, almost always, have a strong command on their subject and are armed with a profound knowledge of the law.
Not many really know what is good for them, and what they are meant to be, especially so, when you’re a fresh law graduate, and your only understanding of the legal world is through limited internships and maybe SUITS! Therefore take on all experiences wholeheartedly. Don’t resist any new experience or challenge, it is only in the deep end that we really learn how to swim. Plus, it is the ability to see a problem or a legal issue, from various viewpoints and perspectives, that sets one apart from the rest and that ability is honed especially by having a varied bouquet of life experiences. So don’t sweat the small stuff and dive – in deep.
Can you please share your childhood memories, what were some key experiences or influences that led you to choose a career in law? Was there anyone who particularly inspired or motivated you to pursue this path?
I was raised in a middle-class household in Bulandshahr, Uttar Pradesh, where I was born in 1991. My family moved to Delhi in 1995, and I have lived there ever since. My education consisted of eight classes at Sant Vivekanand Public School, followed by classes nine and ten at Hindon Public School, and classes eleven and 12 at Mukherjee Memorial School. I then completed my B.Sc. (Physics) at the University of Delhi’s Ramjas College. I have no legal family background as such I had no interest in law until my first year of graduation, and I never thought to become a lawyer in the Future. However, as I started my second year of graduating, I learned about the numerous well-known characteristics of the Campus Law Center and its graduates.
Can you share some of the challenges you faced during the initial days of your legal career, and what motivated you to take the Advocate on Record (AOR) exam?
During my time in law school, I decided to pursue a career as an Advocate-on-Record (AOR) in the future. To qualify for the AOR examination, I needed four years of practice as an advocate and one year of training with an existing AOR. Therefore, I decided to start from scratch and join the chamber of Sh. Rajesh Mahindra, a well-known civil advocate at Tis Hazari Court. Under his mentorship, I learned the fundamentals of civil law, drafting, arguments, and procedural aspects.
In 2017, I took a significant step in my career by joining Intelia Law Offices as a Senior Associate, where I worked until 2018. Following this, I embarked on my independent practice at Tis Hazari Court. My dedication and hard work led to my appointment as a panel counsel for the Delhi Legal Services Authority (DLSA). Since then, I have been serving as a panel counsel on the civil panel in the North East and West districts of DLSA, continuing to hone my skills and contribute to the legal community.
How do you manage your multiple roles, including being a legal aid counsel, a media panelist, and an advocate, without compromising on any of them? How do you balance your legal practice with media engagements, and what value do you see in this role?
Balancing multiple roles is challenging but achievable with disciplined time, management, and effective delegation. Media engagements complement my legal practice by enhancing public awareness and professional visibility, ultimately contributing to my growth as an advocate and public servant.
As an Advocate on Record, what are some of the most challenging cases you’ve handled at the Supreme Court, and how did you approach them? Please share your first experience appearing in court? What were the emotions and challenges you faced, and how did that experience shape your perspective on advocacy?
I became an Advocate-On-Record last December only as such I do not have too much experience as an Advocate-On-Record but I have been practicing in the Supreme Court for four years and appeared in hundreds of matters and gained a lot of experience. You can approach the client by your hard work which must be reflected in your case.
How does your work with the Delhi State Legal Services Authority impact the community, and what motivates you to continue providing legal aid?
I have been working with the Delhi State Legal Service Authority since 2017 appeared in more than hundreds of cases and finally left after becoming Advocate-On-Record. Working with DLSA is a different type of experience where you are blessed to help needy people who do not have money to fight for their legal rights. Being a Legal Aid Counsel, you have an opportunity to meet the persons who are needy and don’t have any knowledge, source of income to get justice.
You’ve published many articles and received recognition in various media outlets. How important is it for legal professionals to engage in public discourse and share their knowledge?
Engaging in public discourse and sharing knowledge is increasingly important for legal professionals for several reasons: 1. Public Education and Awareness 2. Professional Credibility and Influence 3. Shaping Legal and Policy Debates 4. Legal professionals can use their platform to advocate for social justice and reforms. 5. Professional Development and Building Public Trust in the Legal System
Overall, legal professionals who engage in public discourse not only benefit their careers but also contribute significantly to society by promoting legal literacy, influencing policy, and advocating for justice.
You attended an advocacy workshop organized by George Washington University Law School. What insights did you gain from this experience, and do you recommend similar workshops for new entrants in the legal field?
By attending a workshop, especially new entrants in the legal field may enhance their communication skills, strategic thinking, practical experience and confidence in the legal Field. I highly recommend similar workshops for new entrants in the legal field. They offer a comprehensive introduction to the practical aspects of legal advocacy and provide foundational skills that are essential for a successful legal career.
Outside of your legal career, what are some of your personal hobbies or interests that help you maintain a work-life balance?
I like playing cricket, archery, and writing poems. It is very difficult to maintain a work-life balance along with Advocacy but when you love your profession everything is possible.
What advice would you give to young lawyers who aspire to practice at the Supreme Court or start their chambers?
I would like to advise young lawyers that they should start their practice from the trial court and read at least one judgment daily on any topic that they like. I do not suggest any young lawyer to start your practice just after passing the LLB. He should work with a senior Advocate for at least three years to explore the practical knowledge of this profession.
What prompted you to establish the Law Chamber of Manish Kumar, and what vision do you have for its future? What are your future goals in the legal profession, and what new dimensions do you hope to explore in your career?
My wife who is also an Advocate encouraged me to start my law office i.e. Law Chamber of Manish Kumar. I do not want to share my future dream but you will have come to know my future goals in future.
Can you share what initially inspired you to pursue a career in law? Was there a specific moment or influence that set you on this path?
From a young age, I had a strong inclination towards law because it represented a pathway to justice, which deeply appealed to me. The idea of being able to contribute to fairness and uphold the rights of individuals and communities was incredibly motivating. There wasn’t a single moment that set me on this path, but rather a consistent interest in the principles of justice and equity. This passion ultimately guided my decision to pursue a career in law.
You have an impressive educational background, including an LL.M. from Penn State Law. How did your studies there shape your legal perspective, particularly in specialized fields like Antitrust, Bankruptcy, and Energy Law?
Thank you for your kind words. Indian competition law has largely evolved from U.S. antitrust law, so studying this area in the U.S. provided me with valuable insights that I could apply back home. Bankruptcy law was particularly intriguing, as it was a nascent field in India with the recent enactment of the Insolvency and Bankruptcy Code (IBC). Engaging in a comparative analysis with U.S. bankruptcy laws provided me with a robust foundation, which has been incredibly beneficial as I now specialize in this area. Energy law, while still evolving in many respects, is a field where the growth of renewable energy sources presents significant opportunities. My studies at Penn State Law allowed me to explore emerging trends and regulatory frameworks in the U.S., equipping me with the knowledge to anticipate and navigate similar developments in India.
Being a dual-licensed attorney in both the State of New York and India is quite an accomplishment. What challenges did you face while obtaining these licenses, and how do they complement your practice?
Obtaining licenses to practice law in both the State of New York and India was incredibly rewarding. Passing the New York Bar exam felt like a wonderful accomplishment. It was a daunting exam, but successfully navigating it instilled a sense of confidence and added credibility to my professional profile. Being dual-licensed complements my practice by allowing me to offer a broader range of legal services and insights, bridging the legal frameworks of both jurisdictions. This dual qualification enables me to better serve clients who operate internationally and provides a unique edge in comparative legal analysis.
Your work primarily focuses on resolving civil and commercial disputes. What drew you to this area of law, and what are some of the key challenges you encounter in these cases?
I have a profound understanding of the intricacies involved in civil and commercial fields like tax and bankruptcy, which provides a specialized edge in my practice.
I enjoy tackling challenging subjects, and given the vastness of civil and commercial law, it’s akin to navigating an ocean with no shore. The complexity and diversity of issues keep me intellectually engaged and continuously learning.
One of the key challenges in these cases is the depth and breadth of knowledge required to address the multifaceted legal and factual issues that arise. Each case is unique, demanding a thorough analysis and a tailored approach to achieve a resolution. Additionally, staying updated with constantly evolving laws and regulations is crucial. Overall, the dynamic and challenging nature of civil and commercial disputes aligns perfectly with my passion for the law and my desire to make a significant impact in this field.
You’ve advised both domestic and international clients on complex legal issues. How does working with international clients differ from domestic ones, and what unique perspectives do you bring to the table?
Working with international clients often involves navigating diverse cultural backgrounds and managing a broader range of projects. This variety provides access to a wider array of legal issues and challenges, making the professional journey more enriching. Being well-versed in multiple jurisdictions allows us to offer valuable insights and advice that are beneficial from both regulatory and compliance perspectives. We guide clients on a macro level, considering the broader implications of their legal matters across different legal systems. This comprehensive understanding enables us to tailor our advice to meet the unique needs of international clients, ensuring they receive well-rounded and effective support and do not have to rely upon or engage multiple professionals across different jurisdictions.
As a trained mediator, how do you integrate mediation techniques into your legal practice, and what benefits do you see for your clients in resolving disputes through mediation?
As an Advocate, it is essential to weigh the best interests of the client. Often a client is warring within their corporate circuit or amongst their familial relationships which could be settled out-of-court with third party intervention. Significant court backlogs and investment of time and resources required for litigation often motivate clients to pursue mediation, if counselled well. We do take pride in facilitating communication between disputing parties, by mediating between them and subsequently drawing up agreements, reiterating that issues can be resolved more efficiently and amicably through ADR than court proceedings. Even once litigation has been initiated, mediation techniques can play a crucial role in guiding parties towards a settlement. Overall, the use of mediation not only provides a more amicable and cost-effective resolution for clients but also helps preserve relationships that might otherwise be damaged by adversarial litigation.
Finally, what advice would you like to give to fresh law graduates who are about to start their legal careers, especially those aspiring to achieve similar milestones as yours?
My advice is not to fret and take the time to understand how vast the field of law truly is. It’s no longer confined to the dual choice of litigating or working for a corporate firm. The profession has expanded to offer numerous new, untapped opportunities.
I delved into the specialized field of taxation law two years after graduation, which demonstrates that you don’t have to figure everything out during law school. Use internships to explore different areas and weigh where your interests lie. This practical experience will help you discover your passion and guide your career path.
Remember, the journey to achieving milestones takes time, and each step, whether big or small, contributes to your growth as a legal professional. Stay open to learning and embrace the diversity of opportunities the legal field has to offer.
Can you share with us the pivotal moments or experiences that led you to pursue a career in law, particularly in the FMCG and Pharma industries?
I grew up in a small town in Ratnagiri district in the Konkan area known as ‘Chiplun’. Despite my father being a practicing advocate I never wanted to be a lawyer in the first place; in fact I had taken a vow that I will be anything but a lawyer. One of the reasons for my aversion to pursue law was his unavailability for us due to his active law practice and socio political activities. He is revered and respected for the kind of work he has done for the poor litigants and for uplifting the life of people at our ancestral village. However during my childhood days I did not have full understanding and always ran away from the thought of following his footsteps.
During school days I always used to be part of the class which used to be known as ‘good’ or having kids which are generally above ordinary. However there was nothing spectacularly great about myself. This continued till class 12 wherein I followed the herd mentality and did what was considered as ‘good’ and ‘intelligent’ but not necessarily ‘my calling’.
The pivotal moment came after my 12th Standard exams (which I pursued from science stream with both biology and mathematics as preferred subjects to do what was popularly known as keeping doors open for both medical and engineering courses). After my 12th exams I happened to read an extremely good article which emphasized building on your core strengths rather than weaknesses. The article mentioned about Sachin Tendalukar; how not everyone can be like him but at the same time how we can be ‘Sachin Tendulkar’ of our own field. Suddenly things became clear to me and forced myself to do honest introspection. I accepted the reality that I was not cut out for science stream and in fact had leanings towards language based subjects which I either did not realize or accept as a reality since it was not a very popular choice in the circle I used to feel I was part of.
I decided to pursue law and applied for a five year LLB course at the only law school I had visited till that time during one of my previous summer vacations in Mumbai…the legendary Govt Law College, Mumbai in the year 2002.
Life changed 360 degrees after getting into law school. I loved my subjects and they loved me back..this had never happened during my science stream subjects. This further opened up my thought process and I naturally ended up putting more effort not only in my studies but also in extra curricular activities such as Moot courts. I was part of the Moot Court committee as well and participated actively in organizing National & International Moot Court Competitions.
Transition from Chiplun to Mumbai was not easy in the initial days but I was fortunate to have formed some really good friendships which helped me settle down in Mumbai comfortably. After more than 2 decades those friendships have only grown over a period of time like an old wine.
Another pivotal event happened in the year 2007 during the campus interview rounds in our college. That year luckily we had companies like HUL and Marico participate in the placement rounds. To try my luck I participated in the placement rounds and was shortlisted for interviews by both these companies. I was selected by Marico and I happened to be the only one from that year’s batch to have been picked up by Marico. That was a very surreal moment in my life and I still remember the reactions from my family and friends who were really happy for me. That’s how my career in the FMCG industry started.
Just like the way I was fortunate to get into pursuing law; I believe I was blessed to have started my in-house legal career with Marico. I learnt some of the best lessons needed to be learnt by a fresher regarding the profession and business both. After spending almost 4 years with Marico; I moved on to join L’Oreal as I was keen to have work exposure in a global MNC at that time.
With almost 10 years in the FMCG industry having dealt with Food and Cosmetics in detail, I was keen to explore and broaden my horizons. At the same time I did not want to explore a completely different sector from the perspective of building my long term credentials in the Industry and hence when Sanofi approached I took up the opportunity as Pharma always appealed to me due to the complexities that a legal professional gets to handle.
With over 16 years of experience, you’ve navigated through various legal landscapes within the Indian Sub-continent. How do you approach the unique challenges presented by each industry you’ve worked in?
The legal landscape in each of the industries I have been associated with has been varied and full of its own unique challenges but doing the right thing at the right time with the right amount of effort has worked for me throughout my career so far. Not just the legal landscape but the working cultures have been different in each of the companies I had the opportunity of working… Indian, European and now US.
All of us have a unique way of doing things but when we are working in a culturally and ethnically diverse organization, quick adaptability is important along with emphasis on putting organization interest at the forefront always.
Throughout your career, you’ve held significant roles in notable companies such as Colgate-Palmolive, Sanofi, L’Oreal, and Marico. How have these diverse experiences shaped your perspective on legal counsel within the corporate environment?
I consider myself fortunate to have started my career with Marico and not just that but with a legal team that was led by Mr Amit Rai (Director Legal- Bennett Coleman & Co- Times of India Group). Amit set the tone for my journey as an in-house legal counsel who works closely with business to understand its pulse and in fact works like a business lawyer.
As you evolve as an in-house legal counsel and chart your way towards the GC roles, it is important to pick up the best from your previous experience and apply it at your current workplace to amplify the learnings.
Luckily in all my stints so far I always got the opportunity to work on the most difficult transactions and situations which have helped me sharpen the saw with each set of experience I have had.
Given your extensive involvement in contract drafting, negotiations, and litigation management, could you share some strategies or best practices you’ve developed to ensure effective legal support for business operations?
Attention to detail is non negotiable for a lawyer. As an in-house counsel and especially in the FMCG space there are always too many things happening one at the same time. This is a very potent ground for missing the key details and hence mastering the artwork of prioritization and stakeholder expectation management is essential.
Building your own network of reliable lawyers and firms is extremely critical in high stake matters and situations.
There are a lot of things that we do not learn in law schools, drafting and negotiation skills are one of them which are extremely critical for good in-house legal counsel. There is a reason why our profession is termed as ‘practice’ for independent professionals and personally I do not consider myself any different when it comes to possessing these skill sets. We have to keep practicing and learning to ‘sharpen our saw’.
As someone who believes in working with an entrepreneurial mindset, how do you balance legal compliance with fostering innovation and growth within your respective organizations?
Focus on ‘doing the right thing’ for the organization and ‘zero tolerance for non-compliance’ helps you set the boundaries. Once you know your boundaries, understanding the opportunities to stretch your boundaries becomes much easier.
You’ve been instrumental in various initiatives such as setting up joint venturentities, launching new products, and resolving long-standing legal disputes. Can you walk us through a particularly challenging project or situation you’ve faced and how you approached it?
As an in-house legal counsel in the FMCG and Pharma industry you are always dealing with some or the other crisis. However I would like to share one of the experiences which really helped me shape my thought process very early during my career.
During my Marico days I was responsible for Food Adulteration Act (Now known as Food Safety Act) Cases in the West And South region of India. There were multiple litigations and we needed concentrated efforts to close them. As a young lawyer I traveled to remote corners of Andhra Pradesh and Orissa (at times traveling through Naxal infested areas without even knowing about it). I learnt that at some of these places local lawyers were actually struggling or avoiding final hearings due to the sensitive nature of the PFA matters. We helped these lawyers with updated case laws and argument notes. As a result we were able to close at least 5 litigations in a year’s time.
This experience taught me very early in my career about the value add we can bring as an in-house legal counsel in the litigation matters and since then I have always adopted this approach to work with my local lawyers across the country.
Throughout your career, you’ve received several recognitions and awards for your contributions, including the Chairman’s You Can Make a Difference Award and being recognized as a Game Changer. How do you stay motivated and continue to excel in your role despite the inevitable obstacles and setbacks?
I love what I do and hence the quantity of work load does not really bog me down. This is very interesting because at one point of time I seriously hated the thought of being a lawyer. My take away from this is that whatever happens in life happens for good and this attitude helps me keep a positive framework of mind and work better especially during challenging situations. I work with the principle of ‘deliver to delight’ which I learnt in Marico. My focus is to give my best in any given situation and my organizations have been kind enough to recognize my efforts. Last year I received 40 Under 40 by Legal Era and the award was picked up by my wife as I was traveling for work. My family is my biggest cheerleader and the one which keeps me grounded as well. My father is most difficult to please and has set very high standards for professional excellence.
Lastly, with your wealth of experience, what advice would you offer to law graduates aspiring to follow in your footsteps, particularly those interested in pursuing careers in corporate law within the FMCG and Pharma industries?
First and foremost; enjoy the 5 or 3 years of your law course..they are never going to come back again in your life.
Spend time on understanding your subjects; if the foundation is good the building can get taller and taller.
It’s better to spend time in the library than doing an internship for the sake of it.
People know where you stand on the subject matter expertise in the first 2-3 mins of your conversation. Spend time on building your expertise and your communication skills. That’s your bread and butter for life as a lawyer.
Lastly, I would like to share that we are all unique in our own ways. We should strive to find that unique quality and build on our strength rather than weakness.
Can you take us back to the beginning of your career? What motivated you to pursue law, and how did you start your journey in this field?
My journey into the realms of law began serendipitously as I turned the pages of an old magazine that featured an obituary of the legendary constitutional lawyer, Nani Palkhivala. The year was 2004, and I, a science student at the time, was at a crossroads about my future. Palkhivala’s profound influence on the legal landscape struck a chord with me, prompting my decision to pivot from science to law. This epiphany led me to enroll in a 3-year LL.B course with a deep-set desire to build a career in litigation and emulate Palkhivala’s mastery in constitutional law and interpretation of statutes. My affinity for literature blossomed simultaneously, nourishing my analytical skills and enriching my legal acumen. Eventually I would read a lot of literature on Palkhivala and read many judgments where he had argued.
Before pursuing your LL.B., you completed a B.Sc. in Physics. What was your career plan during your time studying physics, and what inspired you to transition to law?
While my initial academic pursuit in Physics was driven by a fascination with science and an aspiration to become an air force pilot, my career trajectory took a decisive turn following a series of introspections and a pivotal setback in the air force selection process. The rigorous analytical training from my science background seamlessly transitioned into legal studies, where I discovered a profound passion for law. This newfound path was not just a career choice but a calling to delve into the intricate domains of statutes and societal norms.
As an Advocate-on-Record at the Supreme Court, what unique challenges do you face compared to other courts and tribunals?
Supreme Court practice is a unique ball game in itself. The challenges aren’t many but with constant and consistent preparation, it’s a delight to practice here in the long run. It eventually becomes more rewarding with passing years. As a Supreme Court lawyer, we require to inculcate all the requisite qualities of a good lawyer across all courts and tribunals. The emphasis however is on acquiring more and more knowledge on law, precedents and statutory interpretation.
Practicing at the Supreme Court is akin to playing in the major leagues of law where each case can set a precedent or influence national jurisprudence. The key challenges here are the rigorous scrutiny of Special Leave Petitions under Article 136 and the statistically low acceptance rates of such petitions. This requires a deep understanding of both law and material facts to present substantial questions that warrant the apex Court’s intervention.
Despite these hurdles, the satisfaction of advocating at India’s highest Court, where the stakes are monumental and the outcomes deeply impactful, is profoundly rewarding. The great thing about the practice in the Court is that it is the last resort of a litigant to get Justice and the Court, in many cases, allows substantial questions of law and also questions of fact to be opened up for rendering Justice to see that Justice is done in the case of deserving litigants.
You were associated with Dr. Justice Akshaya Kumar Rath and Mr. Ashok Panigrahi. How did these associations shape your professional path and legal philosophy?
Both my seniors imbibed in me a sense of industriousness and punctuality during my early years of practice. Dr. Rath was eventually elevated as a Judge of the Hon’ble Orissa High Court. He is a man of unwavering integrity and imbibed in me those principles. He has voracious reading habits and that’s from where I picked up a taste of reading a lot on all subjects- from law to biographies, literature, spirituality, philosophy and science. He keeps himself updated on judgments and precedents and was a very good taskmaster. Subsequent to his retirement, we keep in touch and exchange a lot on our current reading. We talk about foreign judgments and articles in journals like Harvard Law Review etc. Dr. Rath instilled in me the virtues of diligence and broad intellectual curiosity.
Mr. Panigrahi was very influential during my early years at the Supreme Court. He helped me connect with a lot of people. He reposed a lot of trust in me while pursuing drafting assignments during my early years. He helped me a lot on the minute nuances in Supreme Court practice and the best methods to prepare a case and brief a Senior Advocate.
I shall always remain grateful to my seniors for where I am now and to have helped me set higher standards. These formative associations have not only crafted my legal perspective but have also deeply ingrained a commitment to excellence and ethical practice.
Given your top position in the Advocates-on-Record Examination, can you elaborate on the importance of this exam for legal professionals and share some tips for aspiring candidates?
Passing the Advocates-on-Record examination is a sort of rite of passage into long-term, successful and progressive practice in the Supreme Court. It offers pan-India recognition as a Supreme Court Advocate and builds a great reputation while appearing in various Courts and jurisdictions. The preparation for the examination involves acquiring minutes of Supreme Court practice and procedure, developing deft drafting skills, building up good ethics in the practice of law, sound knowledge on legal principles, interpretation and precedents. The more a person spends time in the Courtrooms, administrative offices and sections of the Court, one builds up a sound practical idea about how things work in the Court. The academic environment in the Supreme Court with illustrious Senior Advocates and colleagues is also very conducive to efficient learning of legal concepts and effective performance of aspiring lawyers.
The Advocates-on-Record exam is also a quality control system adopted by the Supreme Court, akin to the Solicitor’s exam, to maintain high quality amongst Supreme Court practitioners. The exam stands as a gateway to distinguished practice in the Supreme Court, signifying a benchmark of competence and credibility. For aspiring candidates, my appeal is to immerse oneself in the daily proceedings of the Court, engage with seasoned practitioners, and maintain an unwavering commitment to the profession’s highest standards. This not only prepares one for the exam but also for a fulfilling career at the bar.
What are some of your hobbies and personal interests, and how do they help you manage the demands of your legal career?
My personal interests—ranging from aviation to literature and community service through the Rotary Club—enrich my life beyond the courtroom and provide a balanced reservoir of calm and resilience. These pursuits offer fresh perspectives and a creative outlet that enhances my professional stamina and mental acuity, crucial for navigating the demanding landscape of legal practice. I relish reading a lot on diverse subjects, travelling, spending quality time with my family and small circle of friends. I find it interesting to keep myself updated on the latest trends in the aviation industry. I’ve been associated with the Rotary club and I am the incumbent secretary of my club where I engage in various social activities. I like going on long drives. I enjoy cooking on holidays. These help me maintain an inner calmness. Reading legal literature, biographies, legal anecdotes, science, fiction and technology related topics helps me build a balanced perspective on life. These activities not only provide relaxation but also keep me grounded and focused, enhancing my productivity and approach to legal practice.
You recently completed a Diploma in Bhagavad Gita from ISKCON Bhagavata Mahavidyalaya. What inspired you to pursue this diploma, and how has it influenced your personal and professional life?
I was amazed as well as intrigued by being introduced to the life led by the Brahmachaaris at ISKCON who have renounced the worldly affairs and have dedicated their lives towards studying and learning of the Vedas and Vedic scriptures, and acquiring knowledge on their underlying philosophies. From them I came to know about the significance of Srimad Bhagavad Gita. Each verse of the Gita is a treasure trove of deep and elegant philosophies of life. The meditation and chanting techniques discussed therein are of a superlative order in the impact that they exert on our thoughts, way of life, and understanding of things, circumstances and people. The way of life enunciated in the Srimad Bhagavad Gita is par excellence. It has helped me gain perspectives in my personal, social and professional life. Recently, I faced something immensely life-threatening. My reference to verses of Gita and my association with instructors from ISKCON helped me face things with courage and positivity.
Life’s ephemeral nature coupled with its fledgling possibilities are sufficient reasons for one to study and understand the philosophies from Gita. It certainly helps me maintain equanimity of thoughts in both gains and losses. Pursuing the Diploma in Bhagavad Gita was an exploration into the philosophical bedrock of existence and ethics. The profound wisdom of the Gita provides a powerful framework for personal and professional resilience, guiding me through life’s tumultuous phases. This spiritual grounding enriches my legal practice, allowing me to approach each case with a balanced perspective and deep humanity
Which area of law are you most passionate about, and what drives your interest in this field? Please share some memorable cases in this area.
I am passionate about Constitutional Law, Administrative law and Criminal law. The vast amount of literature on the philosophy of law hovering around constitutional law, interpretation, evidence etc. have always drawn my interests. Such fondness helps me take up cases on diverse subjects of law. It helps me take up challenging work for my Law Firm. I have worked in a number of challenging cases both in the private practice arena as well as in the capacity of a government Advocate for the Orissa State.
My passion for Constitutional, Administrative, and Criminal Law is driven by the dynamic interplay between law and societal values. These fields offer a platform to address fundamental rights and freedoms, challenging me to forge paths of justice in complex legal terrains. From cases involving civil liberties to intricate administrative disputes, my role as an advocate and a managing partner at Vaibhav & Dash Law Associates provides a continuous engagement with law’s transformative power. I have come across some of my most memorable cases while representing the state in a number of criminal cases involving the offence of murder, cases involving land allotments made by the government, land acquisition cases and service matters involving intricate issues of pay scales and promotions.
While dealing with private cases, we were recently able to get an order of quashment of FIR from the Supreme Court in a case involving a purely commercial dispute which was given the cloak of a criminal prosecution. We have also been able to amicably settle a number of disputes before the Supreme Court through effective mediation.
Can you share some of the pro bono cases you’ve worked on? What drives you to take on these cases, and how do you think they impact the community?
My commitment to pro bono work is motivated by a fundamental belief in justice accessible to all. I have worked on a number of pro bono cases in various courts including the Supreme Court. These are mainly criminal cases, consumer disputes, service matters for young recruits and matters for students in cases of admission to educational institutions. By some quirk of fate, I met an auto rickshaw driver in Delhi who was an accused in a death by negligence case. We prepared the case well and he was acquitted by the Trial Court.
I have appeared in the NCDRC for an insurance claim of a person whose property was stolen during the super cyclone in Odisha. I have represented a person with disability suffering from mental disability while seeking recruitment in the All India Services before the Central Administrative Tribunal and the Delhi High Court. I have appeared for young medical students in matters relating to their fees and admission to post graduate degree courses. These cases reinforce the societal impact of law and underscore the profound responsibility lawyers have towards equity and advocacy.
You are presently empanelled as Advocate-on-Record for the State of Odisha, Cuttack Development Authority (CDA), Odisha Hydroelectric Power Corporation Ltd (OHPC), and Canara Bank. Could you share some work details and responsibilities involved in these positions?
Being an advocate for the government, various public entities and corporations offer immensely enriching experience on diverse subjects. I have garnered a significant amount of professional work experience through working in matters concerning these institutions. While appearing in such matters the advocate is expected to maintain high standards of integrity and assist the Court on facts when needed. The work involves multifarious areas of law and requires a meticulous approach to legal and procedural details, ensuring that the entities I represent adhere to the highest standards of legal conduct and fairness. The responsibilities of a lawyer in these positions are heightened, and so do the standards expected of them from the Courts. It also involves dealing with government officials and advising them properly on the standards expected of their actions in Courts in respect of procedural propriety, fact based approach, correctness in the pleadings and avoidance of tardiness in approaching the Court while taking legal recourse and complying with Court’s orders and directives.
The sense of responsibility expected by Courts from state entities, as public trustees and model employers, is far too greater in comparison to ordinary litigants. A lawyer representing the state entities has to, therefore, (as expected and imperatively required) be very vigilant, maintain high standards of responsibility and integrity and act as a facilitating bridge between the Court and the state entities in the quest for justice.
Hello and welcome to SuperLawyer. Today, I’m here with Dr. Ranjana Kaul, who is a partner at Dua Associates with a specialization in the UN International Space Law Treaty regimes and International Air Law treaty regimes as well. Dr. Kaul advises on civil and commercial activities in outer space and on the military usage of outer space.
The advisory includes national space policy and statutes mandated under the International Space Treaty for the national activities, including military, civil, and commercial in outer space. Dr. Kaul has over 40 international and national publications. She has an LLM from the Institute of Air and Space Law from the prestigious McGill University, Canada, and an LLB from Delhi University.
Given your diverse academic journey from studying history to obtaining PhD in constitutional history, could you share what led you from this kind of background in history to specializing in UN international space law treaty regimes, as well as your academic pursuits with space law and air laws?
So, this trajectory isn’t the typical one you might expect. It spans from my completion of a B.A. and an M.A. My M.A. was in history, but my specialization was in constitutional history, and that’s what I focused my dissertation on. Regarding law studies, my parents, particularly my mother, weren’t keen on me pursuing law, despite more than 50 percent of my father’s family being lawyers. She even enlisted the help of an uncle and a cousin, both practicing in Bombay, to dissuade me from pursuing law. However, I wasn’t inclined to rebel at that time. Matters progressed, and after getting married, I pursued law. I completed my LLB much later, as deep down, I always aspired to be a lawyer.
There was an advertisement in the newspaper while my husband and I were walking in Lodhi Garden. He pointed it out and asked if I had seen it. I admitted that I had, but I was hesitant about the entrance exam, as I had never taken one before. He reassured me, saying that the worst-case scenario was failing the exam. Encouraged by his words, I took the entrance exam and passed. Thus, I pursued law alongside other responsibilities, primarily because I had young children at the time, and I wanted to be present for them.
I juggled writing, as I used to be a journalist, and evening law classes while managing my household. Eventually, I started practicing law. I initially joined a firm called Vaish Associates in Delhi, where Mr. O.P. Vaish was my first mentor. It was a fantastic experience, and I’m still in touch with the family. Later, I started my own practice. Unexpectedly, my husband informed me one afternoon, out of the blue, that he was being posted to Montreal for three years. This revelation came as a surprise, considering the short notice and the lengthy duration of his posting.
I said, “But you were not under posting order this morning when we were having breakfast.”
“What happened between then and now?” he said.
“Well, I had a call, and I had to give a reply in half an hour. I knew you would react like this, so I’ve come to tell you,” he explained.
“Yes, but what about all this? You know, all my law books, my files, and this and that,” I questioned.
“I was practicing on my own. Not easy to set up on your own,” he responded.
“Well, that’s up to you,” he remarked, then did an about-turn and went back to the office.
I just froze in my chair. I didn’t know what had happened to my life all of a sudden. Anyway, I thought about it. Five minutes later, there’s a phone call. There were no mobiles then, so it was my daughter calling on the landline.
“Have you heard of a university called Concordia?” she asked. Of course, I hadn’t, so I kept quiet.
“So you haven’t,” she deduced. “Has Papa heard about it?”
“You should ask him,” I replied.
“That means no. And you mean to say that my parents are asking me to join a university in Montreal, neither have heard of and give up the best college in India, which is St. Stephen’s,” she exclaimed.
“Now look here, Mahima, it is what it is, and you just have to pack your bags and go,” I advised.
“I will not go,” she declared.
“No, you don’t have an option here. When am I supposed to go?” I informed her.
“Actually, this weekend,” I told her.
“I’m coming home,” she decided. She was in college. She drove home and asked, “What does this mean?”
“Listen, don’t ask me. I have been informed two hours ago, so you have to go,” I explained.
All this went on, and that poor girl, screaming and kicking, went off to Montreal.
“But I don’t want to study in Concordia; I want to study at McGill,” she protested.
“Now look here, Mahima, since you’re a bright girl, I am sure that you can go to Montreal, sign up in Concordia, walk across to the admin office of McGill, tell them how bright and brilliant you are and what they’re missing, and ask them to take you,” I encouraged her.
She did that, and they said, “All right, we’ll take you, but you have to get a certificate of equivalence.”
She called me from Montreal, saying, “I need this.”
“All right,” I replied. So I went to Stephen, spoke to the principal, got a letter together, and lo and behold, she was at McGill doing international relations, exactly what she wanted to do.
Then I stayed on in Delhi. My husband went in July, my son was reading economics at St. Stephen’s, and he was now headed to Cambridge. So we stayed in Delhi. I mean, I had to sort out things. I left in October, and Ishan sort of peeled off in London, and went off to university. I carried on to Montreal. All of that was fine. But a week after I had sort of recovered from the jet lag, I found myself with nothing to do. I’m a working person. I just couldn’t imagine what it is that could happen to my life for three years more.
I had decided to entrust my practice to a colleague and continue onward. In any case, my husband noticed that I wasn’t entirely content with my current state. So, he arranged for someone to invite me to lunch at the Montreal Club, where I was indeed invited.
During lunch, I met Justice Joseph Nuss, who had previously presided over the Court of Appeals in Quebec. Upon hearing my story, he inquired about my knowledge of air law. Given that air law was unfamiliar territory in India, my expression likely revealed my lack of familiarity. Justice Nuss then broached the topic of space law, to which I also had no background.
He suggested I visit the Institute of Air and Space Law the following morning and meet with Paul, the director. Initially hesitant, given my existing PhD, I eventually relented and enrolled in a certificate course spanning three months.
Upon learning that an LLB was not a prerequisite for the course, I consulted my husband for approval. Following his encouragement, I embarked on the journey, aided by his morning lifts due to inclement weather.
At the conclusion of the 12-week program, I was informed that I had excelled, prompting the director to propose further studies leading to an LLM. Despite my reluctance to undertake another dissertation, I ultimately pursued the LLM in Air and Space Law.
Under the guidance of Professor Ram Jakhu, a leading figure in International Space Law, I specialized in regulating satellite telecommunications in India for my dissertation. Professor Jakhu envisioned my formal training in these laws as being of great benefit to our country in the future.
My stint in India commenced in 2005 after a three-year tenure abroad. At that juncture, my husband’s return to India prompted a call from Mr. Dua, the managing partner, who was acquainted with him. Mr. Dua, upon learning of my return, extended an invitation to join the firm. Agreeing to this proposal, I scheduled my arrival for July after the summer recess and court resumption.
However, a twist of fate altered my plans. In March, I received a call urging me to expedite my return for an international conference on national space laws organized by the International Institute of Space Law in collaboration with the UN and ISRO. Tasked with presenting on India’s national space law, I initially balked, citing my lack of knowledge about Indian laws. Nonetheless, spurred by Professor Jakhu’s encouragement, I dove into research, crafted a presentation, and embarked on the journey back to India.
My presentation at the conference left the space establishment astounded, as it broached topics hitherto unexplored. Back then, private sector involvement in outer space activities was unheard of, rendering my insights groundbreaking. Despite the initial shock, the leadership displayed unwavering support, fostering an environment conducive to exploration and innovation.
Subsequently, my involvement with the International Institute of Space Law in Paris deepened, culminating in my current role as a board director. Over time, India’s space landscape witnessed significant transformations, catalyzed by Prime Minister Modi’s 2020 announcement, which expanded civil space activities to encompass commercial endeavors.
Concurrently, developments post-Kargil underscored the imperative for military space assets to bolster national security. This narrative, which commenced in 2000, culminated in the establishment of a defence space agency. The 2020 reforms further propelled the convergence of defence and commercial space endeavors, heralding a new era of technological synergy.
However, despite these advancements, a glaring gap persists in academia regarding space law education. Unlike traditional legal subjects, space law remains conspicuously absent from law school curricula in India. Yet, with India’s astronomical achievements garnering widespread acclaim, burgeoning interest among students is palpable.
Indeed, the allure of space exploration has sparked enthusiasm among young aspirants, fostering a keen interest in aerospace engineering and related fields. Notably, this burgeoning interest extends to participation in international competitions, such as moot court competitions organized by esteemed institutions like the International Institute of Space Law.
In conclusion, my journey traverses the evolving landscape of space law, underscored by groundbreaking developments and burgeoning interest among students and legal practitioners alike.
So, it’s called the Manfred Lachs Space Moot, World Space Moot. The finals of the Manfred Lachs Space Moot competition are presided over by three sitting judges of the International Court of Justice every year. You can understand the caliber and the importance that the Western world and the rest of the world that are plugged into this domain attribute to space and space activity.
Many of our law school students want to participate because it’s global participation. Many times, our universities have brought back the prize, the trophy, but it doesn’t give them a job here. There is interest. So now, I have seen the trend in universities. At the master’s level, you may have an optional course in Air and space law. Meaning, it is read in one line, Air and Space law, although these are two separate. And there is now the possibility of an LLM in international law.
In our country, LLM is a two-year degree course. So in those two years, there is one semester in which you will study UNCLOS, that is International Convention on the Law of the Sea. You will read the Chicago Convention, which is for International Civil Aviation. And you will read the Outer Space Treaty, which is for Outer Space. And you will read the Moon Agreement. All in one semester. Now, it is not enough, you get some sensitization, for sure. But if you’re dealing with it, to advise somebody, whether it’s the government, it’s the military, it’s a civilian, whoever it is, or it is a commercial, on the nuances of it and how it translates into our domestic national law, of which there presently isn’t for space activities, but all are normative laws.
When you’re doing activities on the ground, of course it is the laws that exist. To be able to explain that needs expertise in understanding the nuances of the treaty. They just sound so wonderful and benign, but they’re anything but that. So that is where it happened and I never planned it.
I think my circumstances took me along this path. And frankly, I don’t think what I could have done without the circumstances and without the series of mentors that I’ve had.
I don’t know what to say. I’m quite surprised at myself sometimes, but there it is.
Ma’am, you’ve achieved so much in your career, and I’d like to delve into your role as a founding member of Spaceport, Sarabhai—India’s first independent think tank dedicated to outer space. Could you share the story behind its founding, the goals and vision you had when you initiated it, and the kind of space-related discourse in India you hope to foster through this think tank?
So really, the idea of Spaceport Sarabhai started with five of us as founders, but the true originators were my colleagues, Susmita Mohanty and Narayan Prasad, whom we call NP. They are both engineers and experienced entrepreneurs who have established their own companies. We felt the need for an independent think tank, free from the constraints of government boundaries or the limitations of individual knowledge, to discuss space-related matters openly.
We also wanted a forum where India’s voice could be heard internationally and where international voices could be brought to India. For example, in one of our early sessions, we invited Professor Stephen Freeland, who is now heading the UN COPUOS working group on the legal aspects of space resources, including lunar resources, along with another expert from Australia, to discuss the various nuances of the Artemis Accords. These accords are a multilateral United States effort involving over 30 countries, aimed at furthering civil activities like mining and long-term human habitation on the moon, Mars, and commercial asteroid mining.
India is a signatory to the Artemis Accords. We explored how this fits into space law, the possibilities it presents, and the concerns it raises. These topics have not been discussed in any university to my knowledge, nor have I been invited to such discussions in any academic setting.
We realized the need to understand these issues, as many people have questions but don’t know whom to ask. For instance, when we had the geospatial policy session, we created a platform for these discussions. Currently, we are planning a forum to invite young space lawyers in India. Many young Indians, like yourself, have pursued advanced studies in space law, earning LLMs from prestigious institutions outside India, such as McGill, universities in the United States, Europe, Leiden University in the Netherlands, and Cologne University in Germany.
There’s a space university in Strasbourg, and many similar institutions exist. We can invite international experts due to our network. We also produce reports independently, without government affiliation, which allows us to present alternate narratives. For example, regarding the early space companies established around 2010, few have reached the stage of operating commercially within India. Many have relocated their operations outside India, though they maintain offices here.
One significant issue is the availability of venture capital and funding rounds, yet no startup has begun commercial operations within India. It will happen in due course, but currently, there are challenges, including the complexity of third-party insurance for space activities. According to the Outer Space Treaty, the state is liable for space assets and those of non-government entities if they cause damage in outer space, in airspace, or on Earth.
Practical aspects need to be addressed for the state and entities to comply with these regulations. This includes determining the extent of third-party liability, identifying vendors, and understanding insurance provisions.
Regarding lunar exploration, some colleagues and I, including NP, were invited to discuss the architecture of a potential moon village. NGOs are already considering the environmental aspects of lunar mining. Given the pollution issues we’ve created on Earth, it’s crucial to establish practical standards for the moon. Additionally, we must consider the prospect of contestation over valuable lunar resources, especially with countries like China and Russia planning to set up an international lunar research station, and other countries, including India and Japan, having their lunar programs.
We need to simulate future scenarios, understand treaty laws, and identify safeguards. These are the questions we wanted the freedom to explore, which motivated Susmita, NP, and others to establish Spaceport Sarabhai. Named after Vikram Sarabhai, the father of the Indian space program and the first chairman of the Department of Space and ISRO, Spaceport Sarabhai (S2) aims to foster open discussion and development in space exploration.
Ma’am, I cannot stop myself but asking you about space travel, which we are planning, then the kind of space debris which we will be facing, space pollution, which we are talking about, the space vacations which we people are now planning that if space colonies will be established, how will we travel the kind of obviously jurisdiction issues. I’m interested in understanding how your think tank aims to support and enhance planning for space travel and space vacations. Additionally, how approachable is your think tank, and how can people get involved? Please share details on how interested individuals can connect with you, and what kind of knowledge or preparation they should have before reaching out.
So, first and foremost, we have a website. Please Google and visit our site to find all the information you need on how to connect with us and what we can do. We are at a very nascent stage, with just the core group working. It’s early days, but we would certainly love to hear your ideas.
We want to see how we can involve more people. For example, we had one young student who approached us, expressing his interest in contributing to our work. He produced a wonderful report on space insurance. So, please involve yourself. What can we do for space lawyers?
As I mentioned, we are now planning a podcast series and a panel of young space lawyers to discuss the issues they are facing, what they think should happen, and how the field can be developed. These are still very early days in figuring out how to establish appropriate national laws for activities in outer space, especially concerning commercial space activities. This task falls to the government, and it’s a complex one to draft a national space activities law.
As I mentioned earlier, when you read the Outer Space Treaty, it seems simple and straightforward, almost like being in a meeting of Girl Guides or Boy Scouts. However, it is anything but that. There isn’t a definitions clause, so the terms are not clearly defined. This requires intensive academic research and work. It’s a very demanding task, and I know this because I do it.
It is consuming, but at the end of it, you know precisely what is required and what it means. Therefore, if I’m going to draft a national space law, I know what I should do and what I must not and cannot do. This is crucial because, in space, you have military space activity.
They have different nuances. The Outer Space Treaties are linked to the UN Charter and to international security. Space, after all, is a physical domain that does not recognize state sovereignty. You cannot extend state sovereignty above 100 kilometers from the surface of the earth, and it’s the laws of physics.
We all remember our basic Kepler’s laws and such. The technology is overcoming the challenges of physics in space, for instance, going against gravity at a very basic, simple level. It is all related to military technology. These military technologies can be used for military activities or for non-military activities like India does, which we call civil space activities. It’s the same technology.
The difference between the government space program and the commercial sector is that the emergence of commercial companies has nothing to do with the government and receives no support from it. Secondly, they are developing their proprietary IPR with the intention that the technology platform they create will offer customized solutions to their customers to earn money, of course. The mental framework in which our young space companies approach the subject is like any other business.
Any other commercial company in India is doing something to achieve a rate of return, which is exactly different from the state, which provides certain services to its citizens as an obligation of the state. The approach to the subject is different, but all are governed under the Outer Space Treaty and the corresponding treaties.
When, for example, damage is caused by your space object or by a state’s space object in outer space, in airspace, and on the earth, you know, debris keeps falling now and then, here and there. We read in the newspaper that a piece of debris fell in northern Maharashtra or wherever it is and did not cause any damage to life and property. Normally, the states do not like to attribute or identify that this piece of debris came from the space object of such and such. They don’t like to because space is geopolitics. Space is high stakes. So you have to tread extremely carefully in what you say and what you don’t say, especially on an official platform.
Basically, you’re walking on eggshells. That is what it is.
Ma’am, how do you see your role as a Partner at Dua Associates contributing to the evolving landscape of the UN International Space Law Treaty? How does your position empower you to drive positive change in such a highly specialized and niche legal domain? Additionally, how do you manage and navigate the complexities involved in this unique area of law?
Look, the starting point is my managing partner. When I joined here, I was practicing in the Delhi High Court and continued to do the bread-and-butter sort of work. On my first day, he came to have a chat with me about what I wanted to do. I said, “Well, apart from the normal work, I’ll go to court and this and that, but also space.” He looked at me with the same sort of expression I must have had when Justice Nuss asked me. I said, “You know, Antariksh…” He said, “Do what you want.” Since then, this firm has been incredibly supportive.
Not in an overt way, but by just being there and letting me pursue it. I was often breezing off to Bangalore for various reasons or taking off suddenly to attend the International Astronautical Congress and IISL International, among other things. They just let me be, and now it has all come together. That’s Dua Associates for me. Without Dua Associates, balancing both these things would not have been possible. My colleagues are equally indulgent; they have a smile on their faces when I’m talking about this.
Now, it’s all coming together, especially as we, including the government, are openly talking about space initiatives. In these contexts, I’m able to provide some assistance. As my professor said, your knowledge will be of assistance someday. To the extent that I can, I certainly try to help. It is not for me to drive these initiatives; I can only assist. The final decision is always the government’s prerogative.
The unraveling and understanding from my perspective are crucial. For example, civil space users already know all the operational details. For military space users, how do you navigate through this amazing treaty? It’s important to understand what military users should or should not do and why they cannot do certain things. There are countless complexities. It’s very difficult to explain it all, but to the extent that I am involved, I am doing my best.
Ma’am, you have also served as counsel for the Union of India at the High Court of Delhi. We would request you, if you are comfortable, to share any professional highlights or significant cases that had an impact on your career or legal perspective. Specifically, we are interested in cases where you thought a particular change would bring a change in society at large or anything that you felt has brought significant change to your life and career.
So, as far as legal practice is concerned, what I valued very much at a personal level is observing the societal changes. Change in society is significant. When I was a member of the Delhi State Women’s Commission, I had to deal with one particular case involving a highly educated lady. She had completed her MPhil in chemistry, and her husband was a doctor. Anyway, the short point is that it was a matrimonial situation where she and her children had been thrown out of the house. It went to court, and she was refused to provide any maintenance. However, she also did not have a house to live in.
The gentleman was still in service but had a DDA flat. She needed a place to stay with her school-going children. In the course of that argument, more than me, it was the presiding judge who made a significant impact. Whenever I think of him, I always wish him well. He said that she has the right to live in that house, to begin with. He expanded the scope of the relief he granted. Plus, he ordered Rs. 4,000 per child. This case went on for years. In the middle of all this, I went off to Montreal and told my colleague about my pro bono work. She volunteered to handle it for me. By the time I came back in 2005, this lady returned.
She used to give tuition in chemistry and mathematics. She used to drive her car to Gurgaon. She was staying in one of the DDA flats in Vasant Kunj so that she could pay for her children. Understandably, those children were impacted by their familial circumstances. But she stuck to her ground, and I have to say, I admire her immensely for her fortitude. Perhaps mothers are like that. She did all this, and her son finally finished his engineering and went to Germany for further study.
Her daughter was deeply impacted by her father’s conduct and used to stammer with anxiety. If you’re a mother, you know what I’m saying. Ultimately, that girl has emerged from her struggles like a chrysalis and a butterfly. She has a wonderful job in a very well-known school, which is a residency. Now and then, they come to meet me, and the children keep in touch with me, exchanging messages. The son is now settled in Berlin. She looks so pretty now.
She’s so confident, and so happy, and the mother is also elated. During COVID, there was naturally no question of tuitions, as one couldn’t go anywhere. However, she started a catering business and arrived here with all sorts of food. I asked, “Why have you brought this for me?
” She replied, “Because I made it myself. This is what I’m doing.” She sustained herself through that. In due course, we were able to find some details about her husband that could have incriminated him in a criminal matter. As a doctor in a government hospital, you know what happens if you lose your job. So, it came to a point of negotiation because the court suggested mediation to settle. He signed off that DDA flat in her favour. I said, “I would not like to, but I just want to tell you that I know about this. I know about these facts. I’ll leave it to you because you’re a brilliant doctor. How would you want to deal with this?” So he signed off the flat, and then we completed the registration process.
Because unless the title is transferred. He can still challenge after he retires. So we went through that whole and connected the dots and created a virtuous cycle to protect her and her children. For me, that was very, very material.
And the other was, the case of this little girl who was around 16 years old and she lived in one of the areas in Delhi. And they had come to the commission. This girl had been sort of waylaid by a constructor who was building around in that locality. And she had been raped. And the father, the old father came, you know, in tears to the chairperson who called me and she said, Ranjana ji yeh. So I said, okay, let me see what can happen.
So now, naturally, this falls under criminal law. I said I would go to Patiala House and informed the judge that I’m representing the Women’s Commission. Have you ever witnessed cross-examination in a rape case? This gentleman arrived with a battery of eight lawyers, bombarding this little 16-year-old girl with questions. It was bewildering. She didn’t grasp what had happened to her.
By the time the case came up, she had recovered, but she was overwhelmed. “Where was his hand?” “How were you feeling then?” I intervened, addressing the judge, “Your Honor, firstly, let there be nobody else in the court. This girl cannot handle these questions. Please, exercise restraint in your questioning.”
In the end, despite the verdict, the father approached me to express his gratitude. He mentioned he intended to arrange his daughter’s marriage. I advised him, “Sadat Sir, it’s unfortunate what happened, but it shouldn’t mar her future. Inform the prospective groom and his family beforehand.”
Six months later, the chairperson contacted me. The Gurdwara Parbandhak Committee had sent a letter expressing gratitude to the commission, specifically mentioning my assistance. They visited with a box of sweets, sharing that the daughter was happily married. They acknowledged her past and reassured her, “It’s not your daughter’s fault.”
Some judgments may shake the earth, but this experience profoundly impacted the lives of these two women. As a father, such meaningful milestones resonate deeply with me, as much as I cherish space exploration.
That’s what is called bringing change to society. How can you say that you have not brought in? You have brought in significant changes. Even if it has touched two lives, it has changed those lives. I really cannot imagine what they have been feeling during that kind of litigation and after following your suggestions and mediation techniques. It’s amazing, ma’am. I am just speechless.
But I’ll tell you one more thing at the time: this girl, the little girl, had been for cross-examination. My daughter, who’s studying in Welham in Dehradun, was home on holiday, and we used to live in Tilak Marg. I don’t know if you’re familiar with Delhi, but Tilak Marg and across the road is Patiala House.
So I told her, I said, “Look, you come with me. This girl is about your age, and it takes time. You have to wait till your case gets called up. I want you to come and sit and chat with her because there’ll be nobody; she’ll be sitting alone.” And these two girls are getting along famously.
And my daughter couldn’t believe it. You know, just to look at Patiala House and all those people and all these things and so forth. I said, “Mahima, this is the world across the road from our house. You live in a very privileged cocoon. Never forget that.”
The Dr. Sarojini Naidu International Award for Working Women, which you received in the year 2023, is absolutely a remarkable achievement, at least from where I come from. Ma’am, I would like to understand from you what this recognition means to you in both personal and professional spheres, and how you see that all these kinds of recognitions help us. Not only do they ground us, but they also help us understand how we can give more to society because, yes, we are a little privileged, and that is the only way of giving back to society, to the roots. How do you see it has changed you?
Look, firstly, that intimation, that email I got, came as a complete surprise to begin with. So I had to find out a little bit more about what this was. Anyway, of course, I was very pleased. Anybody would be. But what is wonderful that Mr. Marwah is doing, the people at Marwah Studios, is that I mean, I’m not talking about myself and Space Law because it’s just such a niche area that there is nothing much that I can say.
But I noticed that all the ladies who were being honored there were not because they were at the very top and they had achieved some extraordinary thing being chairman, CEO, this, that, and the other, but that they were contributing by their participation in the various activities within their radius of life, within the circle of their life. As I quoted you two examples, it’s two individuals whose lives I had the honor to touch.
These ladies, like I said, are not the ones that you see in the newspapers or on TV channels, but it’s a recognition of the contribution those ladies are making within the scope. So as much as, of course, I was very pleased about it, but I was thrilled at this initiative that Mr. Marwah has, Sandeep Marwah, I think is his name. I think that institution and that thought requires a great deal of credit that ladies everywhere, small town, big town, midtown, elitist housing and non-elitist housing, wherever you may be, but within that scope of your activity, whatever it is that your activity, you’re contributing.
That is the real thing about that Sarojini Naidu Award.
But I must tell you that the International Institute of Air Law awarded me a Distinguished Services Award in 2017 for promoting the awareness of outer space and outer space law within the national context. And for my contribution to creating this awareness within my country. And that for me was a true validation that whatever that I may be doing here in India is well worth the while.
Ma’am, I would love to ask you one, not the last, but almost the last question. How do you balance your personal and professional life? And I would ask you from the very start. From where you started your legal journey, and when you established yourself as an individual practitioner, then as a partner, then in Space Law, and in Air Law, how did you balance your personal and professional life?
So, like I told you right in the beginning, I did my law much later. After I got married, I completed my PhD. I was actually involved in running an advertising agency. I used to do a lot of writing for Hindustan Times, Indian Express, and magazines, and do travel writing.
I was with a friend of mine; we were running an advertising agency. All of that allowed me to be at home when my children came back from junior modern school. As they started growing older, then I could stay out of the house because that’s the way I’m temperamentally wired. As it happens, that advertisement my husband was telling me about came at a time when my children had already left for The Doon School and Welham.
So I was able to do that evening. There was nobody at home because my husband was by then posted in the Andamans. So I used to drive down to the University of Delhi and do evening classes. It just, you know, those dots connected. I was able to start practising in Delhi; my children were in school.
By the time I was done practising, they had finished school. Ishan was in Stephens, Mahima turned up, she was in Stephens, then he moved on to Cambridge, and I suddenly found myself with Space Law, but my children were grown up by then. Home-life balance is easy, and it is easier when your husband supports you to understand that you have aspirations.
Ma’am, the thing you just said about partners brings me to a very important question. Nowadays, new entrants to the legal field, whether male or female, often face the challenge of balancing their professional and personal lives. Mental health issues are prevalent. What suggestions or golden nuggets would you offer them?
When I started practising in Delhi High Court, and I used to go to the ladies’ bar room, I would see young women agonizing because their child was not well, and they had to come to court. I was thinking to myself, “I’m so glad I had the luxury of saying that I’m just going to do a lot of writing and potter around with this ad agency. I’m going to be working from home whenever I feel like being at home.”
I had the base for that. These young girls, especially in a profession where you’re working long hours, are drafting and meeting clients every other day after the close of court.
So when I started practising on my own, my children were in college, but they needed a mother when they had something important to tell. Whenever they came to my study and sat on the particular sofa there, I would stop working until we had a discussion, until they had said whatever it was that they wanted to say, however long it took.
But then I used to work late at night and finish what I had to do because I had deadlines to meet. Circumstances are different for different people. It’s very difficult, especially for women, and those who do it and stay with it, I truly admire them because I know that many young ladies are doing it against tremendous odds and adversity.
I know a lot of people personally who have done so well. Some have been elevated to the bar. It’s amazing, and it’s not easy, even with support.
Could you please introduce yourself to our readers and walk us through your journey? Also before pursuing your LL.B., you completed a diploma in Ayurveda Ratna. What motivated you to switch to law after seven years in Ayurveda? What inspired you to pursue law?
Yes, I’ll feel grateful to introduce myself and about my journey to you. From 1985 to 2000, I served as a consultant in the renowned Ayurveda Pharmaceutical company, meanwhile, in 1997 my brother B.P. Chhangani was selected for judicial service. He motivated me to do an LLB course, and as you know I cleared LLB in the year 2000 and started practising as an Advocate from 2000 onwards to continue.
Could you please elaborate on the main practice areas you specialize in and the types of cases you most frequently handle in your legal practice?
My main practising areas are Criminal, and Writs in the High Court.
What responsibilities does your position as a Public Notary for the Government of India entail, and how does it integrate with your other legal work?
In the tribunals and high courts, documents need to be notarized, so, it is a part of day-to-day professional practice.
You have been a panel advocate for numerous institutions. How does this role differ from private practice, and what skills have you developed from these experiences? Please share some insights from your work as a panel advocate.
Panel Advocating work is different from private practice. As a Panel Advocate, I’m working in corporate culture. During my work as a Panel Advocate, I developed ethical practising skills and increased my corporate legal field knowledge.
Could you please discuss the significance of the reportable judgments you were involved in, such as Priyanka Shrimali Vs. State of Rajasthan and Hindustan Zinc Ltd. Vs. State of Rajasthan and Ors.? Also you could share some insights from the case.
In the case of Priyanka Shrimali Vs. State of Rajasthan the significance of this matter was “Married daughter is entitled to the compassionate appointments in the Government service”. Before this judgment, the Married daughter was not entitled to the compassionate appointment. In the case of Hindustan Zinc Ltd. Vs. State of Rajasthan and Ors., the significance of this matter is “the challenge to the vires of provisions of sec 38(C) & 39 of the Act and Rule 24(1) of the Rules fails. The writ petitions are dismissed. However, the petitioners, if aggrieved by the entry made in the provisional assessment list, shall be at liberty to file the appropriate objections before the Assessing authority and in the matters wherein final assessment orders have already been made. The demands have been created, they shall be at liberty to file an appeal before the Appellate Authority, if not already filed, within thirty days from the date of this order. The amount, if any, deposited by the petitioners against the demand created in terms of interim orders passed by this court or otherwise, shall be adjusted against the amount payable to satisfy the condition of pre-deposit for maintainability of the appeal”.
Beyond your areas of expertise, which other fields of law do you find particularly fascinating or are passionate about exploring further, and why?
In Legal Service Authority Act, Insolvency and Bankruptcy Act and Companies Act, but especially in Article 39 A of the constitution of India enacted Legal Service Authority Act because the Legal Service Authority Act, sec 12 is about free and competent legal services for the needy person and other persons that need the justice.
As an experienced lawyer, what do you think the current generation can do to prepare themselves for successful careers in law and beyond?
The current generation has ample opportunities to prepare and develop for successful careers in legal fields, like International Arbitration, Companies Law, Banking Law, Legal Drafting and several other fields.
Outside of the legal realm, what are your hobbies or interests that help you unwind from the demands of your profession?
Outside the legal realm, I’m working for several legal awareness campaigns at various places like schools, colleges, and public places on subjects like POSH, POCSO, IT, CYBER CRIME, SENIOR CITIZEN’S RIGHTS, LABOUR ACT, PCMA ACT etc.
Could you tell us more about Purohit and Associates, the types of legal practices they specialize in, and what opportunities they offer for interns looking to gain experience in the legal field?
The Purohit & Associate practices in the subordinate court, tribunals, High Court, DRT, State Commission and various other fields, and It develops the skill of Associates in practice as well as in the competition of judicial exams and gives enough opportunities to the Associates working under the Purohit & Associates, and also provide opportunities to intern about “earn while learn”.
Can you share with us the journey that led you to specialize in Corporate and Commercial law, particularly in the non-contentious aspect?
I am a second-generation lawyer, so attending law school, especially coming from a South Asian background, was almost a ‘fait accompli’. However, during law school, I discovered a keen interest in contract and commercial law modules. I found myself drawn to these modules much more than those dealing with subjects such as criminal or constitutional law, and I also realized that I had a natural aptitude for them. This interest led me to pursue internships that would allow me to delve deeper into related fields. My first internship was with the legal department of Unilever Sri Lanka, followed by another at a corporate law firm in Sri Lanka (where I got to directly work on M&A transactions and corporate restructurings). From then on, I never looked back.
What inspired you to pursue your master’s degree in International Trade Law after your undergraduate studies?
Pursuing a master’s degree was largely circumstantial. I had just returned to Sri Lanka after completing my LLB and was getting ready to sit for my attorney’s exams. I had also started working with a law firm as a legal assistant, which was a full-time commitment. The master’s degree in question was being administered by the Advanced Legal Studies Unit of the Sri Lanka Law College and was a part-time course specifically targeting working lawyers. Incidentally, it was a first of its kind at the time, although external LLM degrees from UK universities are now offered by various institutions in Sri Lanka. So, when I saw the advertisement, given the specialisation, the timing of classes (Saturdays and one evening a week) and the lecture panel (which consisted of some of the most eminent subject matter experts in the country, including two current Supreme Court judges – Justice Janak de Silva and Justice Arjuna Obeysekera), I was very keen to apply.
I would generally advise any young lawyer or aspiring lawyer to get some real-world experience before pursuing a master’s degree or doctorate, unless you’re inclined towards an academic career or very passionate about the topic of study. It shouldn’t simply become an exercise in enhancing your resume.
With your experience spanning across different regions and legal systems, particularly Singapore and Sri Lanka, what are some of the key differences you’ve observed in handling cross-border M&A transactions?
I’ve only practiced in Singapore and Sri Lanka, but both have involved a lot of cross-border work. In the last 6 months alone, I’ve handled acquisitions, corporate restructurings and VC transactions in the US, Kenya, India and Singapore. In my current role I’m predominantly a domestic lawyer in Sri Lanka, focusing on transactional and legal advisory work within the country, but I have some clients from my stint in Singapore keeping me occupied on offshore transactions. My firm also specialises in helping Sri Lankan companies expand internationally. Each jurisdiction is different; sometimes their legal systems are easier to reconcile and understand because of a common history. For example, Sri Lanka and India share a lot of similar laws and administrative practices due to both having been British colonies, and sometimes they can be very different (such as in civil law countries, as I experienced on a power sector investment in Germany a few years back). M&A or projects/project financing work in Singapore, as compared to Sri Lanka for instance, generally involves more sophisticated and voluminous documentation but comparatively less administrative or practical hurdles; this can perhaps be attributed to the maturity and size of the Singaporean economy.
A lawyer must be open-minded and adaptable enough to quickly adjust to different circumstances, for a successful legal practice. I think this is true regardless of practice specialisation, and it is a perspective and approach that my firm endeavours to instill in all our new trainees.
As a former Executive Committee member of the Sri Lanka Singapore Business Council and Vice-President of the Inter-Pacific Bar Association, how have your involvement in these organizations influenced your approach to legal practice?
It has reaffirmed my belief in the value and power of networking. The IPBA in particular (as well as the International Bar Association – IBA) is a fantastic place for any lawyer to make connections, learn of developments globally as well as in other jurisdictions and engage in knowledge-sharing.
Could you walk us through a particularly complex transaction or project you worked on, highlighting the challenges faced and how you navigated through them?
That’s a fairly difficult question to answer, as almost all large transactions and projects I’ve handled have come with some form of complexity.
One transaction does however stand out, just because of the timing and the circumstances. In mid-December 2021, I was engaged by an international law firm to assist in the sale of the majority shareholding in two Sri Lankan listed companies for a foreign headquartered MNC client. Whilst that would ordinarily be a challenging transaction in itself, this one had to be negotiated and completed during the Christmas break, when most offices in Sri Lanka were closed and I was on a wildlife safari with my family in Chitwan, Nepal! I remember navigating four different time-zones, negotiating documents from the back seat of a safari jeep and roaming around the camp at 4am for some internet connectivity to send out emails. Thankfully I almost never travel without my laptop and a roaming data connection. I also had fantastic support from the transaction intermediaries, including the Colombo Stock Exchange, the brokers, bankers and another Sri Lankan law firm which was acting as a share trustee. They went above and beyond, working through Christmas eve and Christmas day to ensure that we completed the transaction on time.
I think it’s important for lawyers to build and maintain close business relationships, particularly with regulators and other professional service providers in the market – you may never know when you need to ask for a favour. I think it’s also important, if you’re an M&A lawyer, to be prepared for a transaction to kick off at any time. Admittedly, this might mean less of a ‘work-life balance’ and more of a ‘work-life blend’.
In your opinion, what are some emerging trends or developments in corporate law, especially in the context of evolving regulatory frameworks and global economic shifts?
From a Sri Lankan viewpoint, I can say that we are seeing a lot more economic activity with India. Between 2013 and 2018, China was arguably the largest source of FDI into the country, particularly towards various infrastructure projects under the Belt-Road Initiative. From 2019 onwards, and particularly post Covid-19, India appears to have taken the overall lead in trade & investment relations with Sri Lanka. This is perhaps a result of PM Modi’s ‘Neighbourhood First’ policy, and consistent with a growing international perception that there is an emergent India – one that is utilising its clout and reach, and leveraging on its potential, as the world’s fifth largest economy. India also appears to be an economic beneficiary of worsening US-China relations, with US and European companies seeking to de-risk and diversify their supply chains.
Given the cultural and geographical links, as well as the substantial similarities in legal and administrative frameworks, I’ve long been an advocate for greater economic integration between India and Sri Lanka; it is, now more than ever, ‘low hanging fruit’ towards reaching our own development objectives in a mutually beneficial manner.
Finally, considering your wealth of experience, what advice would you offer to law graduates aspiring to specialize in corporate and commercial law, especially in today’s dynamic legal landscape?
I would say go for it. There are so many emerging practice areas to explore now, within the broader framework of non-contentious corporate and commercial law work, from data privacy to the developments in blockchain technology, cryptocurrency and the use and application of AI. The best way is to get insights and hands-on experience through internships and work placements etc.
Can you share what initially inspired you to pursue a career in law and how your journey began?
By a stroke of fate, I found myself on the path to becoming a lawyer just a day before my 12th-grade results. It was a decision made by my father and sister to guide me towards law instead of medicine. Little did I know that this unexpected turn would lead me to a remarkable legal journey. Was fortunate to meet some great people and books in the legal field.
I pursued a Bachelor of Laws degree from Shivaji University in Sangli, Maharashtra. Subsequently, I pursued a Master of Laws in Business Law at Symbiosis Law School, where I had enriching experiences such as internships with the Competition Commission of India, contributing to international publications, and engaging in advanced legal research.
My time at Symbiosis Law School marked the beginning of a remarkable professional journey. I ventured into the corporate sphere, contributing to esteemed organizations such as Kirloskar Brothers Limited, John Deere India, Thermax Limited, and now, Bayer CropScience. Also got the opportunity to work with some great managers.
Your career spans various notable companies and roles. Can you walk us through the major milestones and transitions in your professional journey?
Well, there are many, but few are very special, like high stake arbitrations against dealers, NGO’s or PSU’s where you work hard and obtain favourable orders for your company. Arbitration requires continuance focus, as these matters are not time bound and will finish quickly.
Also implementing a compliances tool from scratch for manufacturing sites, establishments and EPC sites was a great learning experience. Further, implementation of new legislations like HSRP, EPR, Legal Metrology Packaging Rules too enriching experience. Last year I received an award by Legasis for ‘40 Under 40’.
I started my corporate journey with a capital goods manufacturing and EPC company, where I delved into the intricacies of commercial contracts, navigated complex real estate issues, and delved into the realm of Patents and Trademarks. This experience laid the groundwork for my subsequent endeavors, as I transitioned to an automobile company, where I gained invaluable insights into legal operations, statutory compliances, MACT and labour cases, advising on employment laws, and the complex web of EHS regulations.
In my subsequent roles within the power/renewable sector, I found myself immersed in a range of commercial disputes spanning India and various regions across the globe. This journey also brought me face to face with the complexities of MSME and IBC issues, enriching my understanding of the multifaceted legal landscape.
Currently, I stand as a Legal Business Partner for Legal Operations, overseeing sites and their litigations, navigating the contracts, and ensuring adherence to employment laws and EHS regulations.
As the Legal Business Partner at Bayer CropScience, what are some of the key responsibilities and challenges you face in leading legal operations in India?
The role of a Legal Business Partner is to serve as a strategic advisor and collaborator within a business, working closely with various stakeholders. Being a part manufacturing site’s leadership team- understand business needs, collaborate and advise on varieties of issues like License to operate, show cause notices from Govt. authorities, leading arbitration/litigation, dealing with complex real estate issues, negotiating commercial contracts & compliances advice.
India Legal operations have unique challenges- first, Regulatory Complexity- Navigating the intricate web of laws and regulations at the national, state, and local levels, as well as the dynamic nature of regulatory changes, can pose significant challenges for legal operations. Second, Compliance Management-Ensuring real time compliance with a wide array of statutory and regulatory requirements, including labor laws, environmental regulations, tax laws, and industry-specific regulations, requires robust compliance management systems and processes.
You have many notable achievements in resolving high-stake litigation. Can you tell us more about these experiences and what they entailed?
It was a profound experience. It demands a strong legal strategy. Further, it involves analyzing complex legal issues, anticipating opposing arguments and being ready with counter strategy. Being an in-house counsel you have to explain the complex business issue to the lawyer in a simple way and explain complex legal issues to business in a simple way, that is the advantage of being an inhouse counsel. It will also teach you resilience in intense pressure, tight deadlines, and the need to maintain composure. Being a meditation teacher is an advantage.
You will soon find that the reward for good work is more work.
However, I personally believe that litigation and arbitration are expensive, and the recent Mediation Act will play an important role in future legal disputes.
Given your extensive experience in various sectors like agriculture, renewable energy, and manufacturing, what are some unique legal challenges you’ve encountered in these industries?
In any manufacturing industry, more or less, 3 tasks are always there, 1. Employment Laws: Adhering to labor laws, industrial relations, and employment regulations, including issues related to labor disputes, contract labor, and workplace safety, presents legal challenges for manufacturing industries. 2. Product Liability and Consumer Protection: Managing product liability risks, compliance with consumer protection laws, and addressing consumer grievances and product safety standards are critical legal considerations for manufacturers. 3. Environmental Compliance and Pollution Control: Ensuring compliance with environmental laws, pollution control norms, hazardous waste management, and addressing industrial pollution concerns are significant legal challenges for manufacturing entities.
This is not about legal operations, but I believe we should have an institute or organization for in-house legal counsel, similar to those for other professions. This would help in the growth and development of in-house legal counsel.
Compliance with regulatory requirements is a critical part of your role. How do you ensure that your company stays ahead of regulatory changes and maintains compliance across various legal domains?
Technology plays an important role here. We have good numbers of compliance management tools in India, which monitor thousands of compliances and hundreds of legislations in real time. Further, the tool needs to be updated with the latest legislation. In my personal opinion no tool will work on its own, it is people who make the tool work. The success of a tool will depend on how simple and convenient the tool is. Also, we need to acknowledge employees’ efforts on compliances and compliance needs to be celebrated.
Shifting gears, GenAI has the potential to significantly impact legal compliances, it can predict and monitor compliance trends, anticipate regulatory changes, automated compliance reporting and provide Compliance Training. Inhouse counsel needs to take the advantage of the GenAI, my current organization offers a ‘Prompt engineering’ course to employees.
Finally, what advice would you give to fresh law graduates who are about to embark on their legal careers, especially those interested in working in-house within corporate legal departments?
In corporate you need to have Business Acumen, understanding the broader business context, including financial implications, risk management and strategic decision-making. You also need meaningful collaboration. Start your journey being a generalist and then move to specialist. And keep enrolling to new courses/programs.
