Super Lawyer

Tag: Amity

  • Prashanth Varadarajan, Legal Counsel, HP India, on Insurance Law, being In-house Counsel, and his diverse experience

    Prashanth Varadarajan, Legal Counsel, HP India, on Insurance Law, being In-house Counsel, and his diverse experience

    Prashanth graduated from Amity Law School in 2009. Prashanth also holds a Masters’ degree in International Corporate and Commercial Laws under the University of London (International Programmes) with academic guidance from the University College of London and the Queen Mary College, London. Prashanth Varadarajan is currently working as the Legal Counsel in HP India’s legal team and is based out of Gurgaon, India. At HP, his work profile includes providing legal support to deals, contract reviewing and negotiations, distribution and partner channels and litigation.

    In this interview we speak to him about:

    • Working at MetLife India, Max Life, and IFFCO TOKIO India
    • His current role at HP
    • His experience thus far

    Given that most of our readers are law students and young lawyers, how will you introduce yourself to them?

    I am a second generation lawyer. My father, Mr. D. Varadarajan, is currently practising as an Advocate in the Supreme Court of India, Delhi High Court, and the National Consumer Disputes Redressal Forum. My wife, Vaishnavi, is also a lawyer and she comes from a family of lawyers as well. While my nativity is from Tamil Nadu, I have been brought up in New Delhi since birth. I did my entire schooling in New Delhi and then I did my integrated B.A(LLB) Hons. from Amity Law School, Noida (affiliated to Amity University). Later, I went onto do a Masters in International Commercial and Corporate Laws from the University of London International Programmes (with academic direction from University of London College and Queen Mary College).

     

    What made you decide to pursue a career in law?

    As a kid, I would see the law books on my father’s desk at home and these law books would be pretty thick in size. That used to intrigue me as to what all has been written in those books because of which they are so thick! At school, I used to take part in a lot of oratory and debate competitions and I used to win quite a few of them. I soon discovered that I had a certain skill at oratory and the legal field is one such, where oration plays a significant role. Further, during my high school days, one of my school mates happened to lend me John Grisham’s A Time to Kill, which introduced me to the world of legal fiction. I was really inspired by the protagonist in that novel, a lawyer named Jake Brigance who vowed to acquit his client against all odds in a murder case, even facing death threats at times. I soon became a fan of John Grisham’s novels and every novel would bring about some interesting legal fiction. I think all these factors had a role in getting me interested in the legal field and me eventually deciding to pursue a career in law.

     

    How was your experience in law school? 

    My law school experience was excellent. There were many events that used to take place in the law school or we were asked to participate in some external events. There was a nice blend of studies and extra-curricular activities, all of which were aimed at personality development of the students. I have participated in various moot court competitions, more notably, the Henry Dunant International Moot Court competition on International Law and the inter Amity Moot Court Competition. I was a part of the college cricket team and used to regularly participate in inter college matches and tournaments.

    How has an LL.M in International Commercial and Corporate Laws helped your career?

    I got interested in this area owing to the work that I was doing in the corporate sphere and also because I was wanting to have a cross border perspective on these topics. On account of globalization and liberalization of cross border trade regimes, today corporate and commercial activities are no longer confined to a specific geographical territory.  I felt that I, as an in-house counsel, should have an all-round perspective on the topic that I am working on and for all these reasons, I enrolled for the Master’s degree. I must say that after completing the Master’s degree and having gained intrinsic knowledge on the globalized nature of corporate and commercial laws, it has been of significant benefit to me while negotiating transactions or while giving an in-house legal advice to the business stakeholders.

     

    What was your first job after law school? How did you secure it? 

    I didn’t join the corporate field immediately after law school. I initially practised for a brief period,  after graduation, before joining IFFCO Tokio General Insurance Co. Ltd. as Assistant Manager – Legal and Corporate Affairs. I had handled a couple of insurance claims related matters for IFFCO Tokio and I approached them for a suitable opening in their legal team. Things worked out well and I joined them. While the transition from a practising counsel to an in-house counsel was fairly smooth, I quickly realised that, unlike judges who would patiently listen to an arguing counsel on a point, the business stakeholders in  the corporate sector are actually interested in knowing only what business friendly solution is there in the offing. There is intense time pressure both on the business person and on the in-house counsel to arrive at a business friendly conclusion, though within the boundaries of law. Sometimes this would require an out-of-the-box thinking and solution. I understood that while the business stakeholders would appreciate all the academic and theoretical points that I can state, what they are really interested is a solution and risk mitigation.

     

    How important is CGPA to recruiters? 

    My personal take is that CGPA is not the sole determining criterion for selection of a candidate; rather it is just be one of the many criteria that recruiters look into. While our education system does give more importance to higher grades, a higher CGPA does not really reflect the true mettle of a candidate. While the parameters for recruiting candidates differ from one recruiter to the other, generally, recruiters look at a certain amount of smartness in the candidate, the ability to logically reason and analytically break down a problem, good communication and drafting skills and more importantly, the humility, willingness and the attitude to learn from one’s mistakes and get groomed for a larger role in the future.

     

    You practised law for a brief period post college. Can you describe your experiences? 

    Practising law is a completely different ball game as opposed to reading or studying the law. The initial years are bound to be a struggle as the newly enrolled lawyer tries to find a footing in the profession and learning the tricks of the trade. The pay is also something which could be low. My advice to those who start out on their own, would be that if they have a passion to do litigation and if they feel that practising law is their life’s calling, then they should continue to concentrate and be focused, notwithstanding the hurdles that they may encounter.

     

    Can you tell us about being Deputy Manager of the Legal team at Max Insurance?

    (As Deputy Manager of the Legal team in Max Life Insurance, Prashanth was the youngest person in a team responsible for the mammoth task of standardising contracts.)

    Well, it was a humongous task. The mandate was to create common, standardized agreement templates which can be used by the subsidiaries of the Max India group. There are around five subsidiary companies under the Max India umbrella and all of them in diverse businesses ranging from Senior Living to Health Care to Life Insurance to Health Insurance. All these businesses had their own internal policies/requirements to comply with and well as regulations and statutory compliances to meet. What may be applicable to one subsidiary would not necessarily apply to the other. All these made the task of standardizing the contracts slightly complicated. Owing to regulatory requirements, some of the contracts could not be modified so as to create a standardized version applicable across the board. We were a team of four initially (the committee later on grew in size), segregated the contracts into standard and non-standard and created a checklist of all the standard contracts and all the standard and common clauses that form part of all these standard contracts. The non-standard contracts were kept out of scope of standardization since these could either be on account of a regulatory requirement or where they were not amenable to standardization (like a reinsurance contract with a reinsurer which the life insurance and health insurance subsidiary of Max would have to execute.). As the days progressed, we had created a depository of all the standard clauses, along with the respective verbiage against each of these clauses. We then got together to create a common verbiage for each of these clauses, that could be used across the board, irrespective of which subsidiary decides to use the clause. We had also created a standardized agreement template, which would basically be used for services deals, wherein almost 75% of the terms were standardized with the remaining 25% being left for modifications/inclusions from the scope perspective. While I did not get to see the actual implementation of these standardized agreements, since I had moved onto MetLife Insurance by then, it was a great experience for me to have been a part of the entire exercise and that too of this nature.

     

    As Senior Legal counsel at MetLife insurance, what was your job profile? 

    MetLife was another huge experience for me. The wide canvas of work and responsibilities gave a lot of exposure to me to activities and topics which I had never done before. At MetLife, I was responsible for managing consumer litigation, ensuring regulatory (India and US) reporting and compliances, providing legal support to HR, Admin, Claims advisory, review of Products T&Cs for submission to IRDAI, reinsurance contract review and negotiation, advising distribution channels, etc. At MetLife, I played a key role in the end-to-end setting up of a new distribution channel called the Insurance Marketing Firm (IMF) within the scheduled timelines, which made MetLife one of the early birds in the insurance sector in India to launch this new distribution channel. At the Legal Counsel’s team meet at Goa in 2014, I was awarded the departmental award for ensuring innovation in legal department, for setting up and ensuring compliance of a process to deal with consumer litigation management within MetLife.

     

    You are currently working as a legal counsel with HP. How did you secure this position? 

    As an in-house counsel in HP, I play the role of a generalist and I currently provide transactional legal support, review of RFPs and tenders, contract reviewing and negotiations. I also advise on Competition law and Environment law related queries and issues. I also provide legal support and advice to HP’s partner channel and distribution verticals and I also handle a certain part of the litigation. It is little less than a year since I have been a part of HP and I must say that the experience so far has been wonderful. As someone who has worked extensively in a highly regulated sector like insurance prior to joining HP, I find that HP provides the opportunity for a legal counsel to be innovative in his outlook towards work, something which a highly regulated environment wouldn’t permit owing to compliance requirements or restrictions. Each day at HP brings about its own share of unique issues and opportunities, which make the job more interesting.

    What got you interested in the insurance sector?

    I got interested in the field of insurance because of my father, who has played a key role for the IRDAI, India’s insurance regulator, in putting in place the regulatory framework for insurance industry, and he continues to be a much sought after attorney by the said industry for advice on various  key regulatory issues and solutions. When I passed out of law school, I used to assist him in the research of common law precedents and the regulatory trends in established insurance jurisdictions like the UK and US. Insurance is a highly complex yet interesting field and the intricacies of the same got me interested in this field. About insurance and the sector in India, in a nutshell, there are two major types of insurances: Life and General. General is a very fast field and the diversifications are multiple like Fire, Marine, Motor, Health, Liability, etc. In India, prior to 1999, only state owned PSUs had the monopoly over insurance: LIC for life insurance, while there were four PSUs for general insurance under the umbrella of General Insurance Corporation (GIC). In 1999, the Insurance Regulatory and Development Authority of India (IRDAI) was created by an Act of Parliament and it became the insurance regulator in India. The Insurance Act was extensively amended in 1999 to remove the monopoly of the state run PSUs in the sector and to open up  the sector for private players, with foreign equity participation. This has given consumers more options to choose from, as opposed to earlier times when the choices were pretty limited. The sector is highly regulated. Like every sector, insurance sector in India has had its own share of challenges and is currently facing headwinds in the form of high operating costs and expenses, but I am confident that  the sector will definitely tackle the challenges and do well in tapping the under-tapped market with product innovation.

     

    What are the skills one needs to develop in order to succeed as an in house lawyer? 

    In my view, in today’s corporate environment, an in-house counsel has ceased to be a person who manages legal issues arising in corporate transactions. Today’s in house counsels have a larger and well defined role to play, as opposed to the traditional in-house counsels. The in house counsels of today are expected to collaborate with business and other verticals and render strategic and cutting edge legal advice with an integrated approach. Naturally, an increased responsibility would require enhanced skill sets, but at the basic level, an in-house counsel needs to have the basic domain knowledge with good communication skills, both written and spoken. As a vital cog of the organization’s decision making matrix, the counsel needs to have a sound knowledge of the company’s business models and strategies and also be able to advise the business teams without resorting to legal jargon. The thrust should be to find a business friendly, logical solution to a problem without breaching the boundaries of law, by looking through the problem rather than looking at the problem.

     

    How do maintain a work life balance?

    Working as an in-house counsel, I generally have late evenings to finish critical issues or close something which is of an urgent requirement. The job sometimes involves working on weekends as well. For me, the best way to unwind after a long and hectic day at work is to play with my two and half year old son. He is the perfect antidote for my tiredness and his energy levels radiate onto me as well. During weekends, I try my hand at cooking as well and dabble in a bit of water color painting and digital photography. I do make it a point to visit the gym at least four days a week (going all seven days of a week is a bit challenging).

     

    What advice do you have for our readers who are primarily college students?

    Have confidence in your abilities and never get frustrated by rejections or failures. Also, never stop the learning process. Law school can teach you many things, but the world always teaches you new lessons that are never the part of the curriculum. Also, its good to make mistakes as you get to learn from them.  Be positive, the world is large and  it’s for you to seize the opportunity.

     

  • Manisha Chaudhary, Managing Partner, UKCA & Partners, on leading a law firm and Masters from Cornell

    Manisha Chaudhary, Managing Partner, UKCA & Partners, on leading a law firm and Masters from Cornell

    Manisha Chaudhary graduated in law from Amity Law School, Noida. She went on to pursue her LL.M. from Cornell Law School, focusing on corporate laws. She is now the Managing Partner at UKCA and Partners (formerly UKCA Law Chambers).

    In this interview, Manisha discusses:

    • Her childhood experiences that pushed her towards choosing law as a career.
    • Her considerations while choosing the best university to do an LL.M.
    • The methodology she uses to research and write articles
    • Her views on the legal education system in India

     

    How would you like to introduce yourself to our readers?

    I am presently the Managing Partner at UKCA and Partners (formerly UKCA Law Chambers), a law firm founded in the year 1986 by my father, Mr. U. K. Chaudhary, an eminent Senior Advocate. He had to disassociate from the firm when he was designated as a senior and the firm passed on to his juniors.

     

    Tell us about your childhood and pre-college life. Was it always your dream to be in legal profession?

    The first question I usually get asked when I meet someone is “So, when did you decide to be a lawyer?” And honestly, my answer usually is “Ummm, I was born to be one!”

    My parents had always encouraged my brother and I to follow our dreams (even if we fell flat on our faces, they were always there to support us). My parents thought that I would take up medicine as a profession, and as a matter of chance I was great at all the science subjects. However, during school, I took keen interest in debating, dramatics, creative writing, the book club, and such related co-curricular activities, which I assumed would help me expand my intellectual abilities. I am sure if Philosophy was a subject in high school, I would have been the first to enrol.  For me, it has always been about gathering information and being fully informed on various subjects, even if it may be of no concern in my life or to me. My closest friends call me Ms. FYI – For your Information! As a child, I would have my parents sign illegible handwritten contracts to make sure I get paid in cash or kind for the chores I had done (which were often repudiated by my mother!). I would sit in my father’s office for hours reading law books at random, which at the time made no coherent sense to me; sibling disputes were handled in the High Court of Mother and I would put across detailed arguments on how I had been wronged and have my brother pay compensation. So far as I remember, I would bolt to our front gate to get the High Court ‘Cause List’ to find my father’s name, read his files and point out the grammatical mistakes (concepts of legal English were lost on me) and organise the office files and Bare Acts. I would strut into his office and take dictation from his juniors and then type it out for them, which they sportingly let me do.

    I truly believe that the inclinations towards the right subjects, an inquisitive attitude towards life, and the constant need to learn and try new things, are inherent qualities of every lawyer and the very fact that I declared myself to be a future ‘financial’ lawyer to all my near and dear ones in the 8th grade did it in for me.

     

    What led you to choose legal profession?

    Whenever someone sought advice from my parents whether one should pursue a career in law, they would categorically say the following:

    1. The profession requires hard work, dedication and perseverance.
    2. You will have to constantly read, study, and keep yourself up-to-date for the rest of your life.
    3. You may have to give work priority over family and friends, and finding a balance will be a challenge every day.
    4. You will always be busy and rushing everywhere.
    5. There is no retirement.

    After hearing this, I was instantly hooked.

     

    Tell us about your experience in Amity law School. What all curricular and extra-curricular activities did you participate in?

    Amity Law School, Noida was in its infancy when I joined. There were not many rules and regulations which barred us from enjoying the ‘Delhi University’ style college life. However, within a year or so, everything settled down and Amity became like any other law school, with the added advantage of foreign educated faculty and international level infrastructure. Amity was and is notorious for being elitist and grandiose but lacking in terms of quality education. However, I beg to differ. Amity is much more than scoring marks, preparing for moots and planning to be an associate in a big law firm. It is a wholesome college experience. Since it is one huge campus for all departments, there are many inter-departmental competitions, festivals, sports meets etc. that gives a young student the opportunity to not only learn their subjects but also learn from other streams. While at Amity, I actively participated in intra-class debates, inter-college competitions, essay competitions, a few national level moots, went on court visits, helped organise events etc. I even participated in cricket and volleyball matches! Since every class at Amity was more or less a group discussion, staying on top of the subject was important. Amity truly teaches you how to survive in a cutthroat world and to bring your ‘A game’ at all times.

     

    You hold a masters degree in law from the prestigious Ivy League school Cornell University. How well did your experiences there prepare you for your current responsibilities?

    I aspired to apply only to Ivy League institutions and hence all my efforts in law school and at work were to make sure to have the minimum requirements of marks, moot competitions, publications, work experience, court appearances and professional growth. I worked fulltime for two years because I wanted to have at least a basic knowledge of corporate laws before specialising in the subjects that I accordingly elected. I know that many people prefer to apply for their masters right out of law school, and do exceedingly well. However, I differ on this approach. I believe it is important to gain some work experience prior to applying as it helps you determine what field of law you would like to specialise in. Most of my classmates had previously worked as lawyers or paralegals and it gave me the opportunity to learn from them.

    Cornell is known to be a relatively easy Ivy to get admission into but the most difficult to graduate from. The courses are multi-dimensional and challenging. All the subjects I pursed at Cornell were specialised topics, and were taught by professionals from New York City and seasoned professors. To truly learn, it is important to not just sit in class and take notes, but to actively engage with the professors and lecturers and to pick their brains.  I sincerely think that I would not have been able to truly extract the essence of the courses, if I had no previous work experience in the same field.

    Having experience gave me the ability to compare what I know to what I was learning and hence I could discuss with other students and professors how to grow professionally and overcome the challenges faced at work. The exchange was mutual ofcourse, because I was able to help my classmates understand the Indian legal system and clarify many of their doubts as well. While at Cornell, I gave a lecture on the Indian Constitution and had students and professors attend the same. It was a feeling of humble pride and an ecstatic high. Cornell does not grade its LL.M. students but rather offers “comments” such as Unsatisfactory (meaning that you have to take the course again), Satisfactory, Honours and High Honours. They believe that since master’s students are scholars they cannot be judged, as there is no “right” or “wrong” interpretation of law. This experience of formulating an opinion on a subject of law and having the same appreciated, even if no one agrees with it, genuinely gives one a tremendous sense of achievement.

     

    How should one assess their LL.M. program? What are the key factors to be kept in mind while applying for LL.M. in different universities?

    First, an LL.M. program or college should not be solely evaluated on the rankings given by various news agencies. The statistics are based on a variety of factors, which can be highly manipulated and hence are not the best tool for assessment. Second, it is important to speak to Alumni, who can guide you and offer you the best advice regarding the school and the course. Third, do a comparison of colleges on factors which are important to you. For example, Yale is an excellent law school but I did not think it was a good fit for me because it is more academically inclined and I wished for a college which is more inclined towards the industry. Fourth, consider your long-term goals. Before choosing your college of choice, you need to establish the reasons why you wish to pursue an LL.M., how it will help you achieve your career goals, what are its post qualification prospects, etc. Fifth, thoroughly research the faculty, the class size, internal policies regarding LL.M. students, how courses are allotted etc. Cornell and Yale have an average of 80 persons per LL.M. batch whereas NYU has an average of 400, hence the classes you wish to take may not be available to you. You can best assess an LL.M. course by reading up on it and speaking to the Alumni, who are more than willing to help. Do not be afraid to ask questions, even if they seem condescending, after all, you are spending a huge amount of resources on an LL.M. degree. To apply for an LL.M. course keep the following “Cs” in mind:

    1. Cost– it is very important because an LL.M. does not guarantee you a dream job, and hence it is important to have your funding in place. In case you plan to take loans, then a plan to clear your debts is important.
    2. Course– do a thorough analysis of the subjects offered and whether they are in sync with what you would want to specialise in and the future prospects of the same.
    3. Country– United States of America and the United Kingdom are not the only two countries, which are popular for LL.M. courses. Many students choose to go to Continental Europe or the Middle East to truly expand their horizons in their chosen field of law.

    Once you have these three figured out, the rest is easy. It will all fall in place once you get there and you will make lifelong memories.

     

    Presently you are Managing Partner at UKCA. What falls within the scope of your responsibility?

    Being a Managing Partner of a firm that is constantly growing is full of challenges. We have a very simple internal structure and I am thankful to each of my employees, associates, and partners for helping me execute my vision for the firm. My foremost responsibility is to consolidate the interests of everyone in the firm and make a comprehensive plan for implementation. Being a Managing Partner also puts me in the shoes of a business owner and hence I make monthly goals for my formidable team to work on. Meeting new clients and promoting the firm is my second responsibility and one that I am constantly learning and improving on. My third responsibility is to oversee finances, appraisals and compliances of the firm. I am also involved in administrative aspects of the firm and look into procurements, subscriptions, memberships, disputes etc. However, my most vital responsibility is to each of my clients and hence every document which goes out of my firm is vetted and finalised by me. Though I can blindly trust my principal associates and partners to settle every document, I believe it also my duty to be personally involved in every matter and be available to clients with full attention to details of their transactions and litigations. I attend most court hearings and am always present on deal closings to assist my clients and my associates and partners.

     

    While hiring new lawyers what kind of skills you look for in their CV.

    The portion of any CV that I disregard is what law school the student is from. It is in my experience the worst measure of how good a lawyer is. The skills I am most interested in are work experience and drafting-research. No law firm is looking to hire first year associates for arguments in courts or lead negotiations and close deals. When hiring fresh law graduates, I want to see their results in moot court competition, creative writing skills and their personalities, whether they will be good fit for the firm and whether they have what it takes to survive long hours and hard work. The next portion to get my attention is usually grades as that can be a decent marker of your basic knowledge and learning skills. I then focus on languages and diversity the person may bring to the firm. If you pass these three criteria, you will be invited for an interview. A job at my law firm depends on the interview with the partners and other assignments which we will ask you to undertake.

     

    You hold certificate in Corporate Law and Governance from the renowned London School of Economics and Political Science, United Kingdom. How far are these certificate courses helpful? Tell us about the experience.

    Certificate courses, if used as a tool for continuing education, can be of great significance in the field of law one specialises in. Certified courses abroad can be in the form of summer school or standalone courses depending on what time of the year you apply. It is a great learning experience apart from being a mini vacation where you make new friends from various countries and different walks of life. In my LSE class, we had finance graduates, lawyers, CEOs, directors of companies, accountants, economists etc. The class was engaging and helped us get a sneak peak of problems faced by professionals in many countries and how we could learn from each other’s experiences. Certificate courses as a supplement to further your knowledge are a great tool and I would suggest a refresher ever so often, whether in India or abroad.

     

    You are an avid writer and have published various articles. How would you advise students to go about their careers with respect to research and writing, publishing grade academic papers?

    I consider publications to be an integral part of a student’s education and a lawyer’s career. Be it writing books, articles, presentations, or even comments on various blogs; it helps hone their research and writing skills. Every student or young lawyer should follow a systematic approach in their own way to writing articles, which will help to get the articles published. Also try to collaborate with seniors or other co-authors to write books, columns, blogs etc. The more publications you have, the greater the impression that you have what it takes to be a scholar or an expert. All colleges prefer students who have published work as it helps them gauge a person’s intellect to a certain level.

    I have written many articles (published and otherwise), prepared presentations for clients, prepared lectures to deliver at seminars for both myself and my father, and I have a very specific, stepwise approach to them all. I have to confess that I am truly a Google junkie. My first step is to ‘Google’ all the information on a subject and read as much as I can, both positive and negative comments, articles etc. to thoroughly understand a topic. The next step in my research is usually news articles available on the internet, and then I move on to articles and presentations by other professionals. All this helps me in getting a general idea of the topic. From here starts the actual process of research. I then peruse the Bare Acts on the subject to interpret the legislative intent and form my own views and opinion on the sections. Next I read the amendments, rules, circulars, and notifications etc. to make sure that nothing important has been overlooked. I also look up any proposed amendments, which may further help me understand the true intent of the law. I then go on to debate every point with my father. I am lucky to have an expert on corporate laws right at home and since it’s my chosen field of practice, I fully exploit every opportunity, though sometimes I am shown the door! Once I have decided on what my hypothesis on a certain subject is, I go on to read scholarly articles, both Indian and international, to understand how I may or may not differ from others. I also research case laws, which may be applicable or made applicable on my hypothesis of a certain subject. My research is usually complete at this stage and now begins the difficult part to put together all the research into a written form. Once I have written an article, I go through it repeatedly to make sure that there is a gradual flow of information and that is no diversion from the main issue at hand. Before submission, I do a plagiarism check, which points out any flaws my article may have. A few points to be kept it mind before submission are– always source you articles, try to be as original as possible, use precedents and do a proper edit for spellings and grammar.

     

    You have been regular guest lecturer at various law schools. How is the curriculum of a foreign law school different from an Indian one? What changes, if any, would you like to see in Indian legal curriculum?

    It saddens me to say that the Indian curriculum for law schools is very dated and impractical for today’s legal profession. The curriculum has been the same for the last few decades with minor changes and focuses mostly on the theoretical aspects of law, majority of which is not relevant for practice. Though some changes have been introduced such as moot courts, projects, and internships, there is still a vast scope for improvement. The quality of the profession is greatly affected due to lack of quality education. I believe we need a complete overhaul of the subjects being taught at law schools. I also believe that teachers, lecturers and professors have to conduct more clinics to teach students the art of presenting arguments, negotiations, trial advocacy, deal closing, preparing transactional documents etc. This will prepare the students for the profession and greatly improve the quality of lawyers.

    The curriculum at foreign law schools is also theoretical but is limited to only a few subjects. What I admire most about foreign law schools is the focus they have on how to make a student an asset for the profession. They make sure that a student who has graduated knows the profession and only has to start polishing themselves to become an expert. In India the approach is to push you into the profession and have you learn on the job, which is not beneficial for every student. I know so many young lawyers who give up litigation or transactional practice because they cannot deliver the quality of work their seniors expect of them. There is tremendous scope for students to elect subjects, which specialise in a certain area of law, such as laws for technology start-ups, laws for ethical hacking, laws for crowd funding, documentation for leveraged buyouts, preparing IPO documentation, investment banking etc. Such subjects need to be taught to give Indian students a level playing field with their counterparts abroad. We should also encourage inter-disciplinary courses where law students along with management students, bankers, engineering students or business students come together to solve complex transactional issues and learn to work on deals which will require understanding and cooperation between different professions. The Indian legal education system needs a more robust, dynamic and diverse curriculum to be of any use to new age lawyers or else we will be left far behind our global counterparts.

     

    You have also been providing pro bono services to social enterprises and start-ups. What is the source of motivation?

    I have been inclined to work towards certain causes relating to the environment, women and children, which have been close to my heart since high school. I provide free legal aid to social enterprises and start-ups that are working in the same field. If I am not able to help, I connect them with my friends who may be able to do so. I sincerely believe that our country has every resource to become a great nation. However, we lack the collective will to do anything about it. The motivation is to make a difference to the society in order to make it better for us all. Social enterprises and many start-ups, including NGOs are working day in and day out to help those who are less fortunate and I wish to be of some help, to the best of my abilities, in their struggle. If I can help them save legal costs, which could sponsor another tube well, or educate a young child, then why not!

     

    What would be your advice to our budding lawyers?

    I have some very simple advice:

    1. Research like your life depends on it. Do not open your mouth unless you have research to back up you arguments or legal opinion. Try to be informed and updated on a daily basis.
    2. Draft, re-draft and then re-draft again, thinking about each possible consequence of every sentence that you have written. Think not only from your client’s perspective but also from that of the opposition. Be honest and fair to the courts. Do not suppress any document or information.
    3. Be organised at all times. Deadlines have been given for a reason and priorities have to be set.
    4. Do not be disrespectful to juniors, seniors, judges, staff, etc. Maintain decorum in court and in office. Do not get personal, and lay yourself open to perennial criticism.
    5. Be ethical. No client or their money, position, or fame is more important than your allegiance to the profession.
    6. Be loyal to your employer and your clients who took a risk with you and give them your best at all times. However, you deserve to be treated with respect and do not let anyone make you believe otherwise.
    7. Try to learn from your seniors without disturbing them. Keep your ears and eyes open and you will pick up on many tricks of the trade.
    8. Do not try to be Ms. or Mr. Know-It-All. Even seniors with 40 years of experience do not know it all! Do what you are good at and strive to be better with each day.
    9. Bunker down, and do not be afraid to work late nights and long hours. You will reap benefits of your hard work.
    10. Enjoy being a lawyer, and take it as your life’s passion not as a bread earner, It is an admired profession but if you do not love it, leave now else you will always be miserable.
  • Divyam Agarwal, Senior Associate, J. Sagar Associates, on higher studies from LSE, cracking the AOR exam and experience in Litigation

    Divyam Agarwal, Senior Associate, J. Sagar Associates, on higher studies from LSE, cracking the AOR exam and experience in Litigation

    Divyam Agarwal graduated from Amity Law School in 2007 and went on to do a Master’s from The London School of Economics and Political Science (LSE) in 2008. Today, he is a Senior Associate at J. Sagar Associates and has extensive experience in Commercial & Civil Litigation matters as well as commercial arbitrations.

    A qualified Advocate-on-Record of the Supreme Court of India, in this interview Divyam shares with us:

    • The importance of learning the art of advocacy in law school through moot courts
    • His take on how to apply for Master’s at the prestigious LSE
    • Experience of working at a Tier-I law firm
    • The method of preparing for the difficult AOR Exam

     

    Please share with us how you chose to study law. Do you have lawyers in your family?

    While growing up, I had no specific inclination towards taking up law as a profession. With the passage of time and after closely observing my maternal grandfather who was a reputed taxation lawyer in UP as well as my father who is a chartered accountant, I realized that a person having knowledge of law thinks rationally and objectively in not only professional situations but also in day to day affairs of life. Though I was initially hesitant, after joining my law course, I developed a keen interest in law subjects, particularly those pertaining to dispute resolution. One thing led to another and I found my calling.

     

    How was your experience at Amity Law School?

    Studying at Amity Law School was a great experience. Apart from the regular course structure, we were given ample opportunities to participate in several moot court competitions and other such events. Another advantage of studying at Amity Law School was the fact that the college was based in Delhi and I got several opportunities to intern with practicing lawyers and well-known law firms.

     

    Could you tell us about the internships you undertook during this period? How do you believe one should structure their internships during law school to provide the maximum exposure?

    My internships were spread out evenly in the corporate sector as well as litigation. Even though my interest all along had been to pursue dispute resolution, in order to make a reasoned and well informed decision, I decided to intern in a corporate setup, so as to assess work involved therein and my inclination towards the same.

    It is advisable to evenly spread internships and gain exposure in maximum possible areas of law. This helps in identifying the right practice area. Another way for maximizing the benefits of internships is to link the internships with the nature of subjects which one is being taught concurrently in college.

     

    You were an avid mooter in law school. Please share with us your achievements and experiences in mooting.

    All law students must hone their oratory skills by regularly participating in moot court competitions. I represented my law school in many competitions and was fortunate to win several accolades. I was part of the team that won the national rounds of Stetson International Environment Law Moot and we represented India at the World Rounds held at Florida, USA. At the World Rounds, our team made it to the quarter finals and I was declared the third best oralist. My love for mooting continued even during my stint at LSE. I was part of the team that represented LSE at Willem C. Vis Moot held at Vienna. Mooting not only aided me in overcoming any possible unease in presenting my thoughts in an effective manner but also improved my inter-personal skills and confidence.

     

    What was your motivation to go abroad for higher studies? How should one go about applying for premier foreign universities like LSE?

    (Divyam pursued a Master’s from the prestigious LSE)
    Although it is a common perception that lawyers intending to practice in the dispute resolution sphere do not necessarily require higher qualification than LLB degrees and higher qualification is often considered to be a means for personal gratification, I have always been of the view that to truly understand the ethos and ever evolving dynamics of any subject, law or any other, it is imperative that one should refine their knowledge by pursuing higher education in their chosen field.

    LSE being one of the premier institutes was a logical choice. I was really impressed with the quality of the faculty for my area of interest. Also, from my research I noted that at LSE the emphasis during classes was on discussions and deliberations regarding practical application of theoretical concepts. This difference in approach was one of the key factors which made me opt for LSE. On a lighter note, the fact that I had been awarded the K.R. Narayanan Scholarship for my Master’s course at LSE made the decision a no brainer!

    Applications at LSE are considered strictly on academic merit. It is imperative to have a good aggregate coupled with mooting and internship experience. Aspirants should concentrate on preparing a focused Statement of Purpose and also obtain Letters of Recommendation from legal luminaries and academicians whom they have been associated with.

     

    How did you zero in on Arbitration as your specialization for your Master’s?

    Arbitration as an alternate dispute resolution mechanism has always fascinated me. In my law school days, courts were shaping the arbitration law at an alarming pace. Substantial advances had been made in foreign jurisdictions especially in the United Kingdom and the principles of alternate dispute resolution and arbitration were well established there. As such, when it came to my Master’s degree, understanding the nuances of international commercial arbitration was a natural choice.

     

    How was the experience at LSE? How do you think it has helped you?

    As clichéd it may sound, at LSE I had the best experience of my life. The whole spirit of LSE –taught by brilliant minds, sharing space with exceptional students from around the world and the overall vibe of the city– was really an enriching experience.

    I found my time at LSE to be both inspirational and essential formy future career. It has given me a broad understanding of the world from a legal perspective which I have found relevant to everything from work in the office to chats in the pub.

     

    Students wishing to pursue Master’s should prefer a chance abroad or in India?

    I believe every law student, given the opportunity, must go for Master’s abroad. The transnational exposure and interaction with lawyers/law students from other jurisdictions helps one in gaining invaluable experiences. It is definitely worth pursuing Master’s from abroad. It changes you in the way you think about everything around you.

     

    How did you proceed after your Master’s?

    In my final year of law school I had interned at J. Sagar Associates. During my internship, I was fortunate to receive a placement offer from the Dispute Resolution team. After the completion of my Master’s, I approached the firm and was given an opportunity to work with them. That’s how my journey with JSA began.

     

    How has the experience of working for the Dispute Resolution Team of a Tier I law firm been?

    (Divyam is currently a Senior Associate at J. Sagar Associates)

    Working at JSA has been an enriching experience. I have recently completed 7 years with the firm, yet each day I continue to learn something new. Each day possesses a different challenge and I look forward to the same. Initially, it was challenging to match the high standards of the organization. However, over the years I have been able to fit myself in and now I strive towards achieving JSA’s vision and mission.

     

    In a profession known to take its toll on one’s personal life, how do you manage to find time for yourself?

    Dispute Resolution is one of the most demanding practice areas. My day is a mix of court appearances, drafting, research work, client meetings and briefing senior counsels. The key lies in effective time management. One trick I have learnt and have followed over the years is to monitor my sleep cycle and squeeze some time either late in night or early morning and finish some chores at home. This allows me greater flexibility throughout the day and a window for attending to my family life. As Thomas Edison once said and I quote “Most people overeat 100 percent and oversleep 100 percent, because they like it. That extra 100 percent makes them unhealthy and inefficient”.

     

    Do Indian law firms value an LL.M. from abroad? Does the lack of an NLU tag hurt one’s chances?

    I feel in India you don’t get enough recognition or weightage for having obtained higher qualification. However, of late the trend has started to shift towards recognizing such higher qualifications, which bodes well for future aspirants who wish to pursue LL.M. from abroad.

    In so far as the lack of an NLU tag is concerned, I have not experienced any such discrimination. Unlike some firms around, JSA has a very open and acceptable culture towards other law schools. Here it is all about merit. You don’t get any extra stars for carrying an NLU chip on your shoulder.

     

    What suggestions would you have for aspirants looking at clearing the notoriously difficult AOR exam of the Supreme Court of India?

    (Divyam recently cleared the AOR exam and got the 4th rank)

    Be aware of the current legal position. There are so many legal initiatives which regularly notify us with new developments. Questions are often inspired by recent developments in law. Also it would be helpful to have practical exposure. Take time out and visit the Registry and Listing Branches of the Supreme Court with your office clerk and witness how court filings are actually done. This will really help you in understanding and appreciating the procedural aspect. And of course do not miss the lectures which are organized by Supreme Court Registry and Supreme Court Bar Association. They are very helpful.

     

    It is being debated whether there actually is a need of the AOR system in the Apex Court. What are your views on the necessity of the AOR system in the Supreme Court?

    AORs play a vital and constructive role in the justice delivery system. The court system being pyramidal in structure makes the Supreme Court as the Court of last resort, so it is imperative to have effective representation by an Advocate, who is trained and well equipped to deal with the niceties and requirements of the Supreme Court.

     

    Where do you see yourself a decade down the line?

    I live by what excites me in life. Presently, I am happy with what I am doing. The work continues to excite me and thus, I believe I see myself growing with the firm.