Can you share with us your journey into the field of law, from your early education to your current role as General Counsel of Tata Industries? What inspired you to pursue a career in law?
From the early days of my education, I was a keen student of History and Political Science, finally graduating with Honours in History from Lady Shri Ram College for Women under Delhi University. At college I was enthused with the ideals of human rights, rule of law and gender equality. I was fortunate to be able to channelise my interests in my professional journey which started with my LL.B degree from Mumbai University and very recently been admitted as a Solicitor in England & Wales.
With your experience spanning both law firms and in-house counsel roles, what differences do you find in the challenges and opportunities presented by each environment? How did these experiences shape your approach to legal practice?
Practice of law remains constant in both these environments. Considering in-house counsels as ‘legal managers’ is a thing of the past. According to me, the key difference between the two is that in private practice, you work from transaction to transaction, whereas in an in-house role, you are much closer to the business and as such have greater ownership of the matters. In-house counsels are also expected to wear a business hat, by that I mean, having a business/strategic perspective.
Transitioning from practicing at law firms to working as in-house counsel, what adjustments did you need to make in your approach to legal practice and stakeholder management? How do you balance the demands of providing legal advice while also understanding the business needs and goals of the organization?
It is important to recognise the role of in-house counsel as a key risk manager for an organisation. This is something which sets apart an in-house role from that of private practice. But this does not translate to mean adversarial position with business. Legal must work with business to find the right synergistic solutions which serve the business needs while mitigating any legal exposure for the organisation. That is not to say that there are no situations where there would be a disagreement with your key business stakeholders, and these are precisely the situations where your mettle as the in-house counsel is tested. It is important to stand one’s ground and to find the appropriate approach to convincingly put the point across. Logical and persuasive arguments would always find takers.
You’ve handled complex transactional matters, including domestic and cross-border M&As, JVs, and Technology Licensing deals. Could you walk us through a particularly challenging deal you’ve worked on and the key lessons you learned from it?
I have experienced inflections in my learning curve when I have advised on the sell side, especially when the asset has been under stress. It requires enormous fortitude to get through the negotiations, to hold your ground and work towards the best outcome. The key practices which can help in such situations are (i) a thorough vendor diligence, which prepares you for the negotiations points you know might come up; (ii) alignment with management/client, so you know the redlines of your own business team; (iii) a clear strategy for the negotiations; and (iv) speed in execution.
As the Co-Chair of the Legal Affairs and IPR Committee of the Bombay Chamber of Commerce and Industry, you’re involved in designing and speaking at seminars on diverse legal topics. How do you stay updated on the latest developments and trends in the legal landscape, especially in areas like Tech Laws, Data Privacy, and Gender Sensitivity?
Thank you for the reference to my work at the Bombay Chamber. It has been my privilege to be associated with one of the oldest and well-respected industry associations of the country. As far as knowledge management is concerned, it is always easy to stay updated on the developments in areas which are of keen interest. I read a lot, both online and offline and also my interactions with peers and seniors enrich me. Ours is a knowledge-based industry and the only way to keep our skills relevant is by staying updated. This is especially important now, when the world is witnessing unprecedented social transformation and technological development, giving rise to whole new legal and regulatory paradigms.
Your involvement in co-authoring editions of the Handbook on the Law on Sexual Harassment at Workplace demonstrates a commitment to promoting a safe and inclusive work environment. What motivated you to contribute to this important area of law, and what impact do you hope your work will have?
I have always had an interest in human rights with a special focus on gender issues, more particularly issues around gender-based discrimination at the workplace. So, when India legislated the Sexual Harassment of Women at Workplace (Prevention, Prohibition and Redressal) Act, 2013, it was a welcome opportunity to dive into the research in this field and the result was the book which was first published in 2015 and remains the most detailed commentary on this subject to date. Since the publication, me and my co-author have received notes from many women around the world telling us about their experiences and it is humbling to learn how far we still have to go. It is important for organisations to understand that this has become a Board level issue and requires attention and investment at leadership level. I am frequently invited to hold lectures and training sessions at different forums on the subject and I sincerely hope that I have been able to contribute meaningfully to the cause.
Given your extensive experience and achievements in the legal field, what advice would you offer to fresh graduates aspiring to pursue a career in law, especially those interested in business law and corporate governance?
In a country which is governed by a Constitution and which practices the Rule of Law, it is a privilege to serve the society as a lawyer. For those who are aspiring to join the profession, I would say that there has been no better time. The new generation of lawyers will not only get to practice law but would also be an integral part of re-defining the legal landscape which is underfoot around the world. From laws on personal data protection, regulating artificial intelligence, new challenges to intellectual property rights, re-defining consumer protection rights, on the commercial side to securing individual rights, protecting those who identify beyond the gender binary, promoting safe workplaces, fighting against discrimination in all forms, there is so much and more which a fresh graduate can contribute towards. Those who wish to practice corporate law, the increasing focus on governance through transparency would provide greater opportunities for research and practice and continuing economic growth would fuel transaction practice. Eventually, hard work, research, drafting skills and a strategic mind are the true assets of a successful lawyer.
We are delighted to have you for this interview. To kick things off, could you please introduce yourself and share what led you to pursue a career in law, especially with a focus on arbitration and civil-commercial litigation?
Thank you for having me. I am R.V. Prabhat, an engineer who transitioned into the realm of law, now practising independently in Delhi with a focus on civil-commercial laws, constitutional matters, and arbitration law. My journey into law was somewhat serendipitous. During engineering, a family property dispute piqued my interest in the field of law. This experience, combined with my keen interest in current affairs and policy, steered me away from conventional engineering paths towards a legal career. I am a first-generation lawyer with no direct or indirect background in law.
The choice did not seem logical to close relatives and well-wishers at the time, but if you are clear in your head what you want to do at the end of the day, that more or less settles the issue. Today, I am happy I took the plunge.
I chose to pursue law at the prestigious Indian Institute of Technology, Kharagpur. The thrill of interpreting laws, formulating arguments, and persuading judges to see things from your perspective is exhilarating. It is this intellectual challenge and the dynamic nature of litigation that cemented my decision to build a career in litigation.
Throughout my law course and subsequent internships, I was consistently drawn to the complexities and nuances of arbitration and commercial disputes. With a background in engineering, I was drawn to the analytical aspects of legal disputes, and arbitration offered a dynamic arena where technical knowledge often plays a crucial role. The satisfaction of unravelling complex legal scenarios and advocating for a client’s position is unparalleled. This passion for litigation and a desire to make a meaningful impact in the legal landscape continue to drive my career as a litigator.
With degrees in engineering and law, as well as completing the Executive Level of the Company Secretary course, your educational background is quite diverse. How has this multidisciplinary foundation influenced your approach to handling legal cases?
My multifaceted educational journey has been pivotal in shaping my approach to legal practice. The analytical skills honed during my engineering degree is invaluable, especially when dealing with cases involving complex technical details. It enables me to dissect intricate issues and understand the underlying mechanics of a dispute, which is often critical in technical litigation cases.
Further, the insights gained from the intermediate level of the Company Secretary course have deepened my understanding of corporate governance and compliance.
This multidisciplinary background empowers me to view legal issues through a wider lens, considering various angles and potential implications that might not be immediately apparent. Beyond my formal education, I maintain a keen interest in history, current affairs, technological advancements, and policy changes. I firmly believe that the practice of law is based on continuous learning.
Overall, the combination of technical knowledge, corporate governance insights, and a broad interest in various disciplines has helped me to bring a unique and comprehensive approach to handling legal cases, often leading to more holistic and effective solutions for my client
As an accomplished author in the legal field, your commentary book on Arbitration Law has received praise from eminent jurists. What inspired you to venture into legal writing and how does it complement your legal practice?
Writing, for me, has always been a profound way to crystallise and disseminate my experiences and insights gained through legal practice. The acclaim my commentary on Arbitration Law received, notably from esteemed jurists, was both humbling and affirming. I owe a debt of gratitude to Eastern Book Company, and particularly to Mr. Sumeet Malik, for their pivotal role in the success of the book.
The act of writing, in my view, is an exercise in clarity and rigour. It exposes any logical inconsistencies in one’s understanding and compels a thorough comprehension of the subject matter. This process of writing and articulation began during my law school days, under the mentorship of Prof. Dr. Uday Shankar.
In the legal profession, where direct advertising of one’s capabilities is not allowed, writing serves as a vital medium for a lawyer to showcase expertise and contribute to the broader legal discourse. It is a pathway through which the world gets to know and understand our legal acumen and perspectives.
Moreover, the legal profession and academia are intertwined. The depth of knowledge required for writing and the very process of organizing and presenting one’s thoughts in writing contribute significantly to a lawyer’s ability to reason and argue with clarity and coherence. In essence, my venture into legal writing is not just a parallel academic pursuit; it complements and enriches my legal practice, offering a platform for continuous learning and intellectual growth.
You’ve been empanelled as legal counsel for prestigious organizations like ONGC, ECL, NHPC, and NCL. How does your role as Senior Panel Counsel for Union of India contribute to your professional growth, and what unique challenges does it present?
As a first-generation lawyer, these roles have provided me with a consistent platform to present cases in court, which is invaluable. As in any profession, the maxim ‘practice makes perfect’ holds particularly true in law. Regular court appearances have honed my advocacy skills and deepened my understanding of legal nuances. Working with government departments has introduced me to the complexities of bureaucratic decision-making processes. Navigating these intricacies has been both challenging and enlightening, significantly enhancing my comprehension of governmental legal frameworks as well as my understanding over administrative law and constitutional law principles. This experience is instrumental in broadening my perspective, enabling me to see cases from both private and public viewpoints. Understanding the motivations and constraints of government entities offers a unique vantage point that enriches my legal strategies for private clients. The learning derived from balancing the interests of private clientele against public responsibilities is profound. It’s not just about legal knowledge; it’s about developing an intuitive understanding of varying perspectives and leveraging this insight to craft more effective and nuanced legal strategies. This dual perspective is invaluable.
You’ve written on diverse legal topics, but your article about “Balancing Act: Reassessing the Safe Harbour Provisions In the Age of Digital India and Global Connectivity” caught our attention. How do you stay updated on emerging issues in the legal landscape, especially in areas like technology and data protection?
Staying current with the rapid advancements in technology and data protection is indeed crucial in the modern digital era. To ensure that I am up-to-date with these evolving legal areas, I actively engage with a variety of academic sources, frequently attend seminars, and participate in legal forums dedicated to technology law and data protection. This field, by its very nature, is dynamic and constantly evolving, which necessitates a commitment to continual learning and a proactive approach to stay informed about the latest developments.
In 2023, the transformation of the Data Personal Data Protection (DPDP) Bill into an Act marked a significant milestone with profound implications on everyday life and legal practice. My involvement in the constitutional challenge of the Aadhaar Act before the Supreme Court’s constitutional bench provided me with a unique perspective on these matters. This experience was instrumental in developing a deeper understanding of data protection laws in India.
From the early stages of the conceptualization of the DPDP Bill, I have been closely monitoring and analysing its development and continuously engaging with subject matter. Keeping pace with these changes is not just a professional requirement but a personal interest, as these advancements shape the legal landscape in which we operate and have far-reaching effects on society as a whole.
What upcoming projects or areas of law are you excited about, and what goals do you envision for your practice in the coming years?
My legal practice, characterized by its dynamic nature and diverse challenges, keeps me thoroughly engaged. As an independent practitioner, there is an inherent need to balance current commitments with a forward-looking approach towards emerging areas of law. I am particularly excited about delving deeper into the realm of technology laws, specifically focusing on the Digital India Act and the Data Protection and Digital Privacy (DPDP) Act and Constitutional law. My objective is to contribute significantly to the existing legal landscape through comprehensive writing projects in these domains.
Having recently passed the Advocate on Record (AOR) exam, a major focus for me in the coming years is to increase my presence in the Supreme Court and various High Courts. I aim to seize every opportunity to argue and present matters at these higher judicial forums, enhancing my skills as a litigator.
In addition to my practice, I am passionate about sharing my knowledge and experience in legal education. I am currently teaching a course on Alternative Dispute Resolution at IIM Bodh Gaya, and I plan to expand my teaching engagements to other law and business schools. This involvement in academia is not just about imparting knowledge; it’s a reciprocal process where teaching sharpens my understanding and argumentation skills, ultimately enriching my capabilities as a counsel.
Overall, my vision for the future encompasses a blend of active legal practice, scholarly writing, and academic contributions, each reinforcing the other in my quest to become a more effective and knowledgeable legal professional.
You’ve successfully represented multinational companies in high-stakes arbitration disputes. What unique challenges do such cases pose, and how do you navigate the complexities of international legal matters?
Representing multinational companies in high-stakes arbitration disputes has been a journey filled with unique challenges and profound learning experiences. There are 3-4 cases, each in a different domain of law, which have not only improved my skills as a lawyer but also gave me the required confidence to have a sense of self-belief to compete and sustain at the highest level.
One of the most pivotal experiences in my career was a complex construction arbitration against a public sector undertaking (PSU), which I handled at a relatively early stage of my career. This opportunity, graciously provided by my former senior, was a significant turning point. It imparted lessons and insights that years of working under a senior or within a firm might not have offered. As is often said, the most profound learning comes from first-hand experience. The responsibility of representing a client in such high-stakes scenarios necessitated an extraordinary commitment, leading me to dedicate countless nights in pursuit of a successful outcome. This particular arbitration dispute played a crucial role in shaping my journey as a legal counsel.
Another defining moment was my involvement in a constitutional challenge before the Constitution Bench of the Supreme Court. The process of daily briefings and brainstorming sessions with some of the most esteemed senior counsel in the field, coupled with the experience of appearing before the nation’s highest court, reinforced my belief in my capabilities to perform at the topmost level of the legal profession.
A piece of wisdom from the octogenarian Mr. Fali Nariman, as mentioned in his seminal autobiography, has been a guiding light and holds me in good stead in my approach to legal problem-solving. He advises “Always remember, it is better to spend more time thinking about a case than merely reading the brief”. This approach has consistently helped me in unravelling complex legal issues, allowing me to develop more comprehensive and effective strategies for my clients.
In sum, navigating through the complexities of domestic and international legal matters in high-stakes arbitration cases demands not just a deep understanding of legal principles but also the ability to think innovatively and persevere through challenging circumstances.
What’s your favourite thing about living in the capital city, and do you have any go-to spots or activities that you enjoy in your free time?
Living in New Delhi offers a blend of vibrant culture and intellectual stimulation. The city provides endless opportunities for exploration and relaxation. For me, the true essence of New Delhi lies in its diversity and the myriad experiences it presents.
In my free time, I find great joy in simple yet fulfilling activities. I often indulge in sports, which serve as a perfect counterbalance to the mental rigors of legal practice. Engaging in physical activities provides a much-needed mental refresh.
Another passion of mine is reading, and there’s no better place for this than Bahrisons’ in Khan Market. It’s a haven where I can immerse myself in the world of books, often losing track of time.
When it comes to unwinding, I’m not particularly fixated on specific spots; for me, it’s more about the company I’m with. Exploring New Delhi’s diverse culinary scene with friends is something I thoroughly enjoy. The city’s gastronomic landscape is as diverse as its culture, offering everything from local street food to high-end dining experiences. It’s these moments of shared meals and conversations that I cherish the most.
In essence, living in New Delhi is about embracing the city’s dynamic character. This city always has something new and exciting to offer, making every experience unique and enjoyable.
For aspiring lawyers looking to specialize in arbitration and civil-commercial litigation, what advice would you give based on your own experiences and the evolving landscape of legal practice?
Drawing from my experiences and the ever-changing legal landscape, I would emphasize that patience, self-belief, and hard work are fundamental. Litigation is a field where rewards and recognition often come over time, not overnight.
One valuable piece of advice that has been handed down to me by my seniors, and which I find particularly relevant, is the importance of focusing on the present. Commit to learning something new each day. A practical way to do this is to read at least one case law daily. This steady, incremental learning will compound over time, significantly enhancing your legal acumen.
Set your goals high, aim for the peak, but do not be daunted by the journey ahead. Instead of being overwhelmed by the distance you have yet to travel, find solace and motivation in each step you take forward. Seek mentorship and guidance whenever possible; the insights and advice from experienced practitioners are invaluable.
Remember, no opportunity for learning is too small or insignificant. Embrace every chance you get to grow, be it through complex cases or seemingly minor legal tasks.
Stay humble and grounded. Keep your friends close. Maintain strong relationships with your peers and colleagues.
Swami Vivekananda’s words resonate deeply in this context: “There is nothing in this universe that goes to waste.” Channel your energies positively, maintain steadfast faith, and be assured that your efforts will lead to success.
Could you introduce yourself and share a brief overview of your journey from college to becoming a Partner at Fox Mandal & Associates LLP?
I am Saurabh Bindal, a Partner at Fox Mandal & Associates LLP, heading the Disputes and Litigation practice of the Firm in Delhi. I did my Engineering and thereafter, decided to pursue Law from the reputed Indian Institute of Technology, Kharagpur, India. Thereafter, I started practicing in a reputed Intellectual Property Law Firm in National Capital Region. After a short stint at the Firm, I realized my calling to be a litigation and disputes Lawyer. Subsequently, I have worked with different Law Firms in the past in various capabilities.
In my current role, I render dispute resolution support to clients on issues relating to Arbitration law, Intellectual Property law, Privacy law, Information Technology law, Constitution, Company Law, Contract Law, Employment Law, Electricity Law, Insolvency and Bankruptcy Code.
I have eight books to my name and several publications in leading journals. I like to speak on different facets of law and have had the opportunity to represent my clients in different forums, in India and abroad.
With significant experience in diverse areas of law, including Arbitration, Intellectual Property, and Employment Law, what inspired you to pursue such a multifaceted legal career?
Well, you know, I firmly believe that the practice of law is based on continuous learning. I try to learn each day. The inspiration to learn is something that keeps me motivated in life. I have worked on different facets of law as that motivates me to grow. One must find a purpose in life. For me, I tend to believe now that my purpose was in the practice of law. Once, you start practicing law, you must be internally inspired to keep the channels of learning open.
As a Partner at Fox Mandal & Associates LLP, you lead the Alternate Dispute Resolution and Litigation practice. Could you share some insights into the challenges and successes you’ve encountered in this role?
The role I am currently engaged in is quite challenging. Each day there are new hurdles, and you have no other option but to live it up to them. As a leader, one must take everything as a part and parcel of life. In life, your failures become your teachers and your success your enemy. I believe it will be very difficult to point out every challenge faced by an individual in her or his role. However, after some point of time, with one’s hard work, every challenge a person faces in life sometimes becomes an opportunity to strive forward. The only insight I could share with the challenges faced by me in my role is that each challenge has taught me new ways to live a meaningful life.
Aside from being a legal expert, you’re also an author, having written several books on intellectual property law, arbitration law, and privacy law. What inspired you to delve into writing, and how does it complement your legal practice?
The person who brought me pen and paper was Dr Uday Shankar, a Professor at the prestigious Indian Institute of Technology, Kharagpur. It was he who asked me to assist him with a submission. When I look back, I give all the credit in my writing to him for his patience with me. He has been my friend, philosopher, and guide.
I would also like to give credit for my writing to Eastern Book Company. Eastern Book family, and more particularly Mr. Sumeet Malik has been very kind in holding my hands. Majorly, all my books are thoroughly reviewed by him personally and he has contributed much to my life.
You’ve been recognized as an expert public speaker. What’s your favorite topic to speak about, and do you have any memorable experiences or anecdotes from your speaking engagements that you’d like to share?
Like the practice of law, public speaking is also a lifetime learning experience. The more you do it, the more you learn about engaging the audience. I have been constantly trying to master the art. Each event I speak at, makes me realize that speaking in public is also an art, at which, I am just a novice.
Having worked with various law firms, including Desai & Diwanji and Singhania & Partners, what lessons have you learned throughout your career, and how have these experiences shaped your approach to legal practice?
I have only learnt that your hard work will get recognized in life. You will always have people around you to pray for you in life, if you are good. I have always maintained good relationships with every Firm I have left. It is a very important learning in life. This has certainly helped me in shaping my legal practice. A legal practitioner must deal with different clients and as an officer of the Court must assist the Court. I believe, my experiences in life have taught me how to interact with clients and make a long-lasting relationship with them. My work in all the past firms has also taught me that it is only your work which will define you.
Apart from your legal expertise, your profile mentions that you are an insightful writer. When you’re not writing legal pieces, do you have any personal writing projects or genres you enjoy exploring in your free time?
Frankly speaking, I used to read a lot of fiction. Lately, I don’t get time to read fiction and that is something that I miss.
As a lawyer with a keen interest in technology, what’s your take on the evolving landscape of privacy and data protection, and how do you think legal professionals can stay ahead in such a dynamic field?
Intersection of law and technology is always appealing. COVID-19 pandemic taught all the lawyers to accept that intersection. Privacy as a concept is relatively new to India. We are still to see the rules being made under the Digital Data Protection Act, 2023. For legal professionals, it will be my advice that to stay ahead in this dynamic field, they must embrace the change which the Act has brought to India. I am sure that there will be a lot of work which will flow from the Act as it has recognized right of individual to keep his digital data private and talked about the repercussions if sharing of such data leads to any breach.
As someone who has excelled in both professional and personal life, receiving accolades such as the India Business Leader Award and the Young Alumni Achiever Award, what advice would you offer to young legal professionals aspiring to achieve similar success?
My advice to young legal minds would be to read, write, laugh, and enjoy life. One must be passionate about her or his work. If law is something, that you are passionate about, I am sure that everything else will follow. It is only work that will take any person ahead in life.
Can you share your journey of how you ended up pursuing a career in law, particularly highlighting any key moments or influences that led you to this path?
Since a young age, I have been captivated by the notion of engaging in public service. Throughout my life, I have consistently embodied an altruistic spirit, always eager to extend a helping hand whenever the opportunity arises. This proclivity guided my career aspirations, causing them to fluctuate between the realms of medicine and civil service, ultimately culminating in my decision to pursue a career in law.
The thrust behind this choice stems from my inherent sense of compassion. Moreover, the unresolved intricacies of one or two-generational family disputes served as a potent motivational catalyst propelling me toward the legal profession. This personal connection and resonance with the challenges of familial discord have played a pivotal role in shaping my professional trajectory, a narrative that aligns with the experiences shared by many individuals, including myself, on their journey toward a chosen career.
Your academic achievements are impressive, including a degree from National Law University and a Harvard University Summer Course in Intellectual Property Rights. How did these experiences shape your approach to practising law?
The rigorous curriculum at National Law University provided me with a solid foundation in legal principles and analytical thinking. It instilled in me a sense of discipline and a deep understanding of the complexities within the legal field. This educational background has been instrumental in shaping my methodical and detail-oriented approach when addressing legal matters.
Further, the Harvard University Summer Course in Intellectual Property Rights enriched my perspective by exposing me to global standards and cutting-edge developments in the field. Engaging with a diverse cohort and learning from leading experts broadened my understanding of the nuances in intellectual property law. This experience heightened my appreciation for the intersection of law and innovation, fostering a creative and forward-thinking mindset in my legal practice. Not only that, it was only after this course that I was able to identify my target market and understand the businesses that we work with.
In essence, these academic experiences have equipped me with a robust legal foundation, a meticulous approach to problem-solving, and a global perspective that I bring to my practice at Fathom Legal, enhancing my ability to navigate the complexities of the legal landscape thereby making Fathom Legal, Advocates and Corporate Consultants a full-service Entrepreneurship Law firm.
You’ve had significant experience in corporate law, from debt recovery to Corporate disputes including company law cases as well. Can you tell your areas of work and what were your learnings from it?
Throughout my 6-years of practice, I’ve navigated diverse legal landscapes, handling cases spanning from debt recovery, real estate, Insolvency and bankruptcy matters, as well as issues of Oppression and Mismanagement, Customs, and White-Collar Crimes, notably under the Prevention of Money Laundering Act before the Directorate of Revenue Intelligence.
On the corporate front, our focus extends beyond litigation. We support clients in enhancing their technological frameworks by integrating legal expertise, ensuring compliance, data security, and addressing workplace safety concerns including Prevention of Sexual Harassment (POSH) and DNI aspects. Our role involves providing comprehensive legal guidance on day-to-day organizational challenges. Pioneering the domains of Web 3.0 and Artificial Intelligence, we’ve assisted numerous startups with offshore incorporations and global entity restructuring via mergers and acquisitions.
Each case presents a unique learning curve, emphasizing the significance of understanding clients’ pain points before meetings and maintaining composure during challenging situations. Continuous legal advancements prompt ongoing learning, offering a wealth of knowledge each day.
Your work involves supporting startups, SMEs, and SMBs. What unique legal challenges do these businesses face in India, and how do you help them overcome these challenges?
My Law firm, Fathom Legal, Advocates & Corporate Consultants is a one-of-a-kind full-service Entrepreneurship Law firm in India with its major clientele being SME’s, SMB’s and Mid-Cap companies. The reason to specifically focus on these industries is because, in my opinion, they form the backbone of our nation’s GDP.
Our client pool is versatile. A lot of our clients are SaaS companies, aggregators, Fintech platforms, Edtech Platforms, Export houses, traders, manufacturers etc. The most common problems that they face is cancellation of projects midway, unpaid bills, quality issues to state a few.
Our team has a very different methodology of working. We believe in intersectional learning. A lawyer with an understanding of business is all that a client wants. We visit our clients’ offices/factories and try to get hold of as many business nitty-gritties as possible to assist our clients in the most efficient manner. After developing a detailed understanding we review their paperwork to identify the gaps in their systems and rectify those gaps through agreements and contracts making sure a proper checks and balance system is created within each organization for its smooth functioning. Of course, it takes a couple of months to iron out all the long existing problems but we believe in providing a permanent long-term solution rather than a temporary fix.
Beyond your legal career, you also run an NGO, Paritripta Foundation, focusing on social causes and justice. Could you tell us more about the foundation’s work and its impact on the community?
Paritripta Foundation holds a special place in my heart and is being nurtured as the legal advocacy arm of Fathom Legal. This not-for-profit organization spearheads various impactful projects, including ‘Project Patrkarita,’ dedicated to fostering free and unbiased media. Additionally, ‘Project Ankush’ focuses on educating young minds about various forms of harassment and equipping them with coping mechanisms. There are many more parallel projects that we wish to take up but are at a halt due to the limitation of funds.
Moreover, we’re actively engaged in advanced research addressing critical societal issues. These encompass concerns like household cooking gas restrictions, the implementation of green roofs, challenges within overcrowded prisons leading to same-sex assault, as well as the exploration of PrEP and PEP drugs for HIV treatment. These issues strike at the core of our society and demand urgent attention.
Our aim is to pursue public interest litigations on these matters, striving to contribute to a brighterand secure future for our nation.
You’ve published several papers and books on legal topics. Is there a particular topic you’re passionate about, and can you briefly discuss why it matters in today’s legal landscape?
In today’s legal landscape, Foreign Portfolio Investment (FPI) and Foreign Direct Investment (FDI) play crucial roles in shaping India’s economic and legal framework. Their impact extends beyond the economic domain to influence legal policies, regulatory frameworks, and compliance standards.
FDI is critical for India’s growth trajectory, as it aids in infrastructure development, technological advancements, and job creation whereas FPI brings in short-term capital that can be beneficial but also poses risks due to its volatile nature. Both FDI and FPI contribute to India’s balance of payments, foreign exchange reserves, and overall economic stability.
FPI and FDI necessitate robust legal frameworks and regulations to govern their entry, operation, and exit from the Indian market. Legal structures such as the Foreign Exchange Management Act (FEMA), Securities and Exchange Board of India (SEBI) regulations, and various other laws are crucial in governing these investments.
Both FPI and FDI significantly influence India’s legal landscape by necessitating robust legal frameworks, stringent compliance, dispute resolution mechanisms, policy advocacy, and the protection of investor rights. Legal experts like us play a vital role in facilitating, navigating, and safeguarding these investments within the country’s legal framework.
You’ve had the opportunity to work remotely with international clients. What challenges and opportunities does remote legal work present, and how do you navigate them?
Handling international clients presents a captivating yet challenging scenario. Initially, navigating different time zones posed a hurdle, compelling me to work during unconventional hours. Communication barriers with attorneys in Belgium and Japan were another obstacle. Understanding the diverse legal landscapes across various jurisdictions was crucial; lacking that knowledge made operationalizing in specific regions a challenge. Embracing technology became imperative for seamless cross-border collaboration, and leveraging the latest tech proved instrumental in streamlining processes.
However, working with international clients was an eye-opening experience. It broadened my global perspective significantly, offering exposure to diverse practices. This exposure, in turn, elevated my performance, aligning it with international standards. Moreover, it instilled in me the importance of trusting and delegating tasks, a pivotal aspect in our industry.
One particularly demanding yet rewarding client, a law and lobbying firm in the United States, reshaped my outlook on international relations. This collaboration extended to intriguing opportunities, such as RSVP to closed sessions at The White House. As a legal journalist, having my articles published in prominent legal blogs in the United States has been an enriching outcome of this association.
Overall, this experience revolutionized my understanding of international relations’ intricacies, emphasizing the significance of trust, and offering unparalleled insights into navigating complex global landscapes.
As a final question, what advice would you like to share with fresh graduates who are about to enter the legal profession, considering your journey and experiences in the field?
To the fresh graduates, I just want to say that stay curious and stay hungry for knowledge. Go aggressive on your hunger. Explore as much as possible. Catch up with the technology and stay ahead of it. For a flourishing practice make sure to meet new people and create your own network. Strengthen your logical, analytical, legal and business skills. Seek mentorship and develop soft skills. Explore diverse fields of law before you are sure to identify what you enjoy the most. Uphold ethical standards. Trust and integrity are pillars of the legal profession; don’t compromise them for any reason. Also remember, In the face of challenges or rejections, perseverance is vital. Keep pushing forward; every setback is a chance to grow.
Having both a stellar legal career and being a celebrated author, how would you like to introduce yourself to our readers?
I am a practising Supreme Court Advocate and have a keen interest in our polity. As an advocate and responsible citizen of society, I always feel that I have a duty towards the society to elaborate the comprehensive survey of our Indian democracy and rule of law.
What was your Law School journey like? Was Law School where you first tried a hand at writing?
I had a wonderful journey in my college as a political science student and thereafter as a student leader in Law College. I had lots of opportunities to raise my voice on different platforms but not as a writer.
Tell us about the book “Ramayana Revisited – An Epic through a legal prism”. What was the idea behind choosing this subject?
The Idea has come up with my uncle who is a co-author of the book. We discussed a unique idea which had never been thought about in the legal world. After discussion with him, I was excited and immediately started preparing the defence and prosecution of the characters of Ramayana and we decided to leave it to the readers to decide the culpability. Supreme Court and High Courts Judges, Parliamentarians, Mythologists, Journalists and Vice-Chancellors have appreciated the book.
You have also written about elections in India in the book titled, “The Power of Ballot”. Was this idea always in your mind or was it something you and your co-author Anil Maheshwari together came up with?
I have seen personally the election process very closely and hence was always keen to write about the theoretical law and practical reality. I have read and keenly monitored lots of elections and their processes in the country. The writing of the book was there in my mind for almost a decade. In fact, I had petitioned before the Supreme Court for admissibility of the Internet voting on mobiles but those were the days when the Court did not deem it fit to admit the writ petition. Another writ petition on similar lines has been admitted and is under process in the apex court. We have given details of the admitted case in the book.
You seem to be deeply interested in History amongst other disciplines. How do you believe writing on this subject is essential in today’s time and age?
The idea to write on a subject which is very close to every citizen of India as I have always seen that Indians love elections which have become a sort of national festival across the castes, communities and regions in the country. Secondly, I have seen that elections in India in always been dominated by patronage, money, fake news and prediction which made me think to write about the book. Despite all these weaknesses, elections in India are the symbol of a thriving democracy even after seven decades since its introduction way back in 1952 after we attained independence. Let us discuss its shortcomings and make efforts to remove them.
You have been a member of the National Executive Committee of FICCI and PHD Chambers of Commerce and Industry in India and have received many accolades from different sections of the society for your literary achievements side, we would like to know what got you interested in Commercial Laws as practice area?
This is not a variation as I have done the constitutional, civil and criminal litigation for almost three decades; lately, I started enjoying the commercial litigation of corporates. As a student of political science and law, this has always been my first choice and as an active lawyer and political analyst I always think that it would be good to pen my thoughts on law, the festival of democracy, duties, the exercise of the ballot by more than 910 million electors, management of the largest electoral process by the ECI and lastly the lifeline of democracy will be a good idea to share with the readers in the form of a book.
You have served as the former Additional Advocate General of Haryana and Senior Central Government Standing Counsel of various state governments in the Supreme Court of India. If you had to choose between litigation and writing, what would you choose and why?
As a lawyer, my first love is my profession and fortunately, it involves a thought process in drafting, therefore both litigation & writing go hand in hand and I would like to continue my passion for writing.
You are a founder of the law firm Maheshwari & Co., Advocates and Legal Consultants, a full-service law firm known in India and internationally dealing with corporate, commercial, transactional, mergers and acquisitions, and intellectual property. Please share about the challenges of your role and the advice you have for the next generation.
As a founder of a Law firm is a big responsibility on one’s shoulder which involves hard work, integrity, dedication, transparency & accountability and lastly the tender job of nurturing young lawyers and help explore their talents. I feel in any sphere of life one should always aspire and try to do a larger good for society.
With a remarkable career in Journalism, and also having authored quite a few books, how would you describe your professional journey to our readers?
My professional journey or say the foray into the realm of journalism had been a rewarding experience as I was transferred nine times, though most of my colleagues and friends in journalism spent their entire life at one station. Therefore, I was enabled to see and understand the major parts of the country at a grassroots level.
Tell us about the inception and idea behind the book- “Ramayana Revisited- An epic through a legal prism”.
I am happy that the book Ramayana Revisited: An epic through a Legal prism was so well-received in the market. This idea germinated in my mind in 1998 when I was enjoying the company of a lawyer serving the West Bengal High Court. He was talking in defence of Ravana. Two decades had passed, and eminent mythologist Bibek Debroy (The Economist) encouraged me to develop a book around this theme. I roped in my nephew, who has acquired a name in the legal parlance- Vipul Maheshwari, who helped me immensely with his legal inputs. That is why he is the co-author.
How did the book- “ The Power of Ballot” actualized? What kind of research and fact-finding you have had to undergo towards the completion of this book?
The newest book has been treated the same. Vipul Maheshwari has given his legal input on the subject, as holding fair and free elections is the base of a vibrant and thriving democracy. However, there are misconceptions about some innovations which have eliminated the most dangerous illness, which was rigging the elections. Hence, he is the co-author.
You have been a journalist for over five decades and you retired from Hindustan Times as a Special Correspondent. We would love to know about this journey of yours.
I’ve enjoyed every moment of my journalistic life. Newspapers were my classrooms, and the experience was my teacher. The mentors I met along the way were a few editors and an army of veteran reporters. They taught me about the classical roots of narrative non-fiction and offered great insights into the techniques of reporting. My belief is that intellectual curiosity and relentless work etc matter infinitely more than the natural ability in achieving excellence.
What was more challenging for you, journalism or writing?
Journalism and writing are subjects that overlap each other. However, there is a difference between journalistic writing and writing a book. Both remain challenging in their own ways. But I took the challenges in stride and that is why I enjoyed the unique joy both offered me. I have witnessed Vipul Maheshwari express a similar challenge with Law.
Here’s an incident he shared with me that I was tempted to include in The Power of the Ballot. Everyone is aware of the unseating of the PM Mrs Indira Gandhi, an incident that led to the imposition of an emergency in the country. The next time, when another election petition against her election for the Lok Sabha from Raibareli was filed before Allahabad High Court, it was summarily dismissed because the Raebareli district was under the jurisdiction of the Lucknow bench of Allahabad High Court. In the earlier instance, the judge overlooked such a gross mistake and the lawyer who appeared on behalf of Mrs Indira Gandhi. And the country had to pass through a cycle that could have been avoided.
You have two short-term tenures as a fellow at the Aligarh Muslim University. Please share with us about this experience of yours.
Aligarh Muslim University, a prime seat of learning and symbol of the Muslim way of life in India, has been kind enough to offer a short-term fellowship to me twice, to read and write any subject of my choice. For starters, I’ve worked on writing a book (co-authored by Dr Faizan Mustafa) about the Right to Information. Back then, the Right to Information was not in vogue in the country.
The second time, a few years ago, I worked on the subject of the History of Aligarh Muslim University, which will soon be released as a comprehensive book about the university in the coming November, with Bloomsbury publishing the title. Before I was absorbed as a full-time reporter by the Hindustan Times, I used to work for several magazines and newspapers as a freelancer. During that course, I also contributed to the prestigious weekly Economic and Political Weekly. I covered the Allahabad High Court, its Lucknow Bench, Jaipur bench of the Rajasthan High Court, The Haryana and Punjab High Court, Jammu and Srinagar High Court besides the district courts at Meerut, Siliguri, and Bareilly. Covering courts has always been fascinating and fulfilling.
You have contributed to the Economic & Political Weekly, and The Frontier, and have also covered stories on various District Courts and High Courts in India. What do you think is the most important aspect for becoming a successful journalist? A word of advice for aspiring authors and journalists among our readers?
There is a dearth of professional legal reporters in this country. For any budding journalists, my advice is
1. Singleness of purpose; 2. A wide study of various subjects; and, 3. Deep penetration into the subjects.
To cap them one should be willing to learn new things and respect points of view expressed by others.
Pranav Khatavkar completed his B.B.A. LL.B. from Symbiosis Law School, Pune in the year 2015 and his area of specialization is business law (dispute resolution as well as advisory). In pursuance of the same, he has obtained additional qualifications in Mergers & Acquisitions, Investment Laws and Corporate Finance from ASCL Law School. He has also obtained the Securities Intermediaries Compliance (Non-Fund) Certification and Issuers Compliance Certification from National Institute of Securities Markets. Further, he has completed a summer school on International Financial Law and Regulation from the London School of Economics and Political Science, United Kingdom (LSE).
Pranav’s stellar academic and research credentials are evident from his publications in nationally and internationally renowned journals like Symbiosis Student Law Review, Plebs Journal of Law, International Journal of Legal Sciences and Research, World Journal on Juristic Polity, International Journal of Law and Legal Jurisprudence Studies and International Journal of Legal Research. He has also penned India’s first commentary on the Insolvency and Bankruptcy Code, 2016.
Pranav also has a very well rounded internship exposure. He has interned at prestigious law firms such as Juriscorp, Trilegal, Economic Laws Practice, Lakshmikumaran&Sridharan and the then AmarchandMangaldas Suresh Shroff& Co. (Now known as Cyril AmarchandMangaldas). He is also the only candidate from his batch to have secured an internship at India’s capital markets regulator (i.e. Securities and Exchange Board of India) and India’s banking sector regulator (i.e. Reserve Bank of India).
He is also the founding editor of International Commercial Law Review and the erstwhile President of the India Chapter of Network for International Law Students.
In this interview, he speaks about:-
His law school experience
Role of grades in one’s career
Attending a summer school at the London School of Economics and Political Science
His decision to become a commercial lawyer
His experience of penning India’s first book on the recently enacted Insolvency and Bankruptcy Code, 2016 and founding a law journal.
Pursuing additional qualifications and clearing the compliance module offered by the National Institute of Securities Markets in the first attempt.
His take on the All India Bar Examination(AIBE) and enrolling for Bar Hacker.
HOW WOULD YOU LIKE TO INTRODUCE YOURSELF TO OUR READERS?
Professionally speaking, I am an independent legal professional based out of Mumbai specializing in commercial law (litigation as well as advisory). I am also retained as a Counsel at M/s Synlitigators. Otherwise, I am an unassuming person experiencing life as it unfolds itself to me.
PLEASE TELL US SOMETHING ABOUT YOUR TIME AT LAW SCHOOL.
Law school for me was a period of tremendous personal and professional development. I was shaped by my experiences. My primary and only focus during my law school days was to find a practice area to specialize in. In pursuance of the same, I read several books, engaged in industry oriented research, networked with people from the industry, pursued additional qualifications and interned at different places. My experiences allowed me to tap into a catena of perspectives that helped me arrive at a decision regarding my practice area and simultaneously build a network.
HOW IMPORTANT A ROLE DO YOU THINK GRADES PLAY IN SHAPING ONE’S CAREER?
In my opinion, grades assume relative importance (largely in the short term) which depends to a great extent on the set of circumstances you find yourself in. I believe grades play an important role in the following circumstances:-
While applying for jobs as a fresher – Majority of the top law firms and companies (including quite a few mid-tier ones) (I collectively refer to them as “companies”) that recruit law graduates either through college placements or otherwise often enlist grades as one of the several criteria while short listing candidates for a job. As unfair as it may sound to other candidates who don’t have impressive grades but shine in other aspects (many of them actually do), companies have a valid reason to do this. Companies are also fully aware of the fact that grades don’t necessarily reflect a candidate’s merit and ability but they still use that as a criterion to shortlist candidates simply because they do not have the time and the resources to review each job application on merits as their primary concern is running the company and generating revenue. Recruitments are only one of the several aspects that come into the picture while running a company. Companies in order to reduce their time and effort in recruitments, use grades as a yardstick to shortlist candidates. Furthermore, seen from the viewpoint of the company, ultimately, they are going to make an investment of their time and money in you if they hire you. Hence, by using grades as a yardstick, they also gauge your consistency and motivation to perform. So if you are keen on working with a good company, then, yes, grades are important and especially if you come from a law school that does not feature in the popular rankings. Yes, companies also look at the ranking of your law school. While answering this question, I am categorically excluding those candidates who have strong industry connections using which they often get placed at top companies. I am addressing the concerns of the larger pool of unconnected candidates here.
While applying for the LL.M. Program – Candidates who are keen on pursuing the LL.M. Program especially from well-established international universities need to have good grades. Since these are primarily academic institutions, it is obvious that they would demand stellar academic credentials from the applicants. Further, even National Law Schools (which I believe are the only places that offer a decent LL.M. Program in India as of date) select candidates for the LL.M. Program on the basis of their performance in the Common Law Admission Test (CLAT) that is designed only for the LL.M. applicants. So with respect to further education, academic performance is very important.
I conclude this point by saying what I said earlier in this answer. Grades assume relative importance largely in the short term which is further dependent on your set of circumstances at the relevant time. As far as your job prospects as a fresher are concerned, look at your grades as an access pass to enter the job market. Once you are in, then you are on the same footing with everybody else in the market. In order to differentiate yourself then, you have to only focus on delivering results. This applies even to those candidates who secure jobs through references. Ultimately, the industry evaluates you on your individual merit and credence irrespective of your background and connections.
As far as the long term is concerned, your grades don’t necessarily matter. Then it is only your work that largely speaks for itself. Nevertheless, seen from a holistic perspective, your long term also comprises of several short terms (including your short term time duration as a fresher wherein your grades matter which might influence the subsequent short terms and ultimately your long term if you were to connect the dots). Sounds contradictory and confusing, doesn’t it? Believe me, it’s not.
To clear this apparent contradiction and confusion, I will just say that you should try your level best to get good grades but at the same time not get bogged down if you aren’t able to achieve the desired score. Give it your best shot and leave the rest to the circumstances. Remember – circumstances no matter how good or bad they appear to be, always change. Nothing stays. Control what you can, manage what you cannot.
HOW WOULD YOU DESCRIBE YOUR SUMMER SCHOOL EXPERIENCE AT LSE? WHAT MADE YOU DECIDE TO CHOOSE IT AND WOULD YOU RECOMMEND IT TO OTHER LAW STUDENTS AND LEGAL PROFESSIONALS?
I wanted to enhance my understanding of the jurisprudential foundation of Indian financial law. Since Indian financial law draws heavily from its British counterpart, I attended a summer school at LSE to study UK financial law and regulation. I had a fabulous time studying at LSE and exploring UK generally. I also learnt a great deal about myself and became more independent. I would certainly recommend attending LSE’s summer school to all law students and legal professionals (subject to your feasibility).
WHY DID YOU ELECT TO BECOME A COMMERCIAL LAWYER? WHAT KIND OF WORK DO YOU DO?
I support my decision for becoming a commercial lawyer (focusing specifically on commercial litigation and arbitration) on the basis of two averments. First, this field is dynamic and vibrant. Every matter exposes you to a new jurisprudential or a practical aspect of commercial law that you cannot fathom otherwise. Hence, the scope for learning is actually unlimited. Second, there are tremendous growth prospects in this field as there is a huge demand for legal professionals who demonstrate a sound understanding of the legal aspects of business and commerce. Once established, sky is the limit.
After graduation, I worked at a mid-size law firm for a year before migrating to individual practice. My work now largely involves the following:-
Representing banks, financial institutions and corporations before the Bombay High Court, Debts Recovery Tribunal and Debts Recovery Appellate Tribunal.
Drafting pleadings and applications in law suits and researching on different aspects of corporate/commercial and bankruptcy law.
Advising and representing clients in commercial arbitrations.
Advising clients on pre-litigation strategy and procedure.
Briefing counsels in various litigation and arbitration proceedings.
HOW WOULD YOU DESCRIBE YOUR EXPERIENCE OF HAVING INTERNED AT THE TOP LAW FIRMS AS WELL AS THE GOVERNMENT ORGANIZATIONS TOO WHERE YOU HAVE GAINED A WORK EXPERIENCE?
(Pranav has interned with Juris Corp, Trilegal, Economics Laws Practice, Lakshmikumaran & Sridharan and Amarchand Mangaldas Suresh Shroff & Co, now Cyril Amarchand Mangaldas, on the one hand as well as with the Reserve Bank of India and the Securities Exchange Board of India on the other.)
I interned at law firms specializing in commercial law firms with the primary intention of exploring the practical aspects of commercial law and subsequently taking a call with respect to narrowing down on a practice area. My law firm internships gave me an opportunity to work on a variety of commercial law matters (research as well as drafting). My internships at SEBI and RBI gave me a first-hand exposure to financial regulation. My overall internship exposure gave me tremendous insight in terms of industry operations.
WHAT IN YOUR OPINION IS THE APPROPRIATE WAY FOR ONE TO CHOOSE HIS/HER AREA SPECIALIZATION WHILE AT LAW SCHOOL? WHAT VALUE ADDITIONS DO THESE DIPLOMAS AND ADDITIONAL QUALIFICATIONS OFFER?
(Pranav has secured diplomas in Corporate Finance, Securities Law, Investment Law and Mergers & Acquisitions. In fact he had pursued his diploma degrees at a fairly early stage of his law school tenure when most others remain undecided about where they want to go.)
I will first answer the last part of your question that broaches the value additions offered by these diplomas. The academic structure of most of these diplomas offered by other reputed institutions is usually designed after consulting industry experts; for e.g. the Business Law Diploma offered by iPleaders. Although I haven’t done the course as of now, but on the basis of the reviews that it has received and more importantly on the basis of my perusal of the sample study material that is available in public domain, I can say that the insights one will gain after doing a course like this, will certainly benefit him/her in practice which I believe is what ultimately matters.
With all due respect to the prescribed law school curriculum, I am constrained to say that it is largely theoretical rather than being practical. While I don’t dispute the importance of theory, but I do emphasize the importance of putting theory to practice and therefore recommend a more practice oriented curriculum. Practice not only tests the veracity of theory, but also brings to light issues which have not been previously considered by theory. The investment of money and more importantly the time in law school should yield returns in one’s career. Hence, I recommend pursuing additional qualifications while managing the law school curriculum to expand one’s horizon.
I believe, a law student should select his area of specialization on the basis of the following considerations:-
Existing and estimated growth rate.
Demand-supply specifics from an industry standpoint.
Existing and prospective competition one can or will encounter.
YOU ALSO HAVE A FAIR SHARE OF LEGISLATIVE DRAFTING AND RESEARCH EXPERIENCE. HOW WILL YOU DESCRIBE YOUR EXPERIENCE WITH THE SAME?
(Pranav was awarded the Best Contributor Award for making concrete recommendations to the Prevention of Sexual Harassment of Women at Workplace Bill, 2010 as a part of Legislative Analysis Project undertaken by a Member of Indian Parliament from the Upper House, Government of India, Mrs. Vandana Chavan)
My limited legislative experience exposed me to the issues surrounding regulation and governance. I saw the law from the law maker’s eyes and got an iota of an idea of the considerations that influence the law making process. The insights that I derived then, armed me with tremendous perspective on interpretation of laws and more importantly discerning the legislative intent.
WHILE ATTENDING LAW SCHOOL, YOU ALSO TOOK THE INITIATIVE TO ATTEND SEVERAL WORKSHOPS AND TRAINING PROGRAMS. WHAT WAS YOUR MOTIVATION BEHIND PARTICIPATING IN THESE WORKSHOPS AND TRAINING PROGRAMS?
My primary motivation behind attending these workshops and training programs (I collectively refer to them as “programs”) was to first gain industry insights and second build a professional network. I attended these programs at the Bombay Stock Exchange and Institute of Company Secretaries of India’s Centre for Corporate Governance Research and Training. These workshops largely covered the practical aspects of securities law, debt restructuring and banking law.
YOU HAVE AN ENVIABLE TRACK RECORD OF EXTRACURRICULAR ACTIVITIES (BOTH WITHIN AND OUTSIDE LAW SCHOOL). HOW DID YOU KEEP A BALANCE BETWEEN EXTRACURRICULAR ACTIVITIES AND LEGAL STUDIES?
(Pranav was a Core Committee Member of the Corporate Law Cell of Symbiosis Law School, a Pro Bono Legal Aid Volunteer for Helping Hands, a Non-Governmental Organization and the Founder& erstwhile President of the India Chapter of Network for International Law Students)
When it comes to pursuing extra-curricular activities, time management is the key. One has to intelligently allocate his/her time to all activities that he/she intends to pursue. I used to keep a diary (and I still do) to plan and execute my itinerary for the day. This helped me to keep a track of my time and navigate my day smoothly. Extracurricular activities were a welcome break for me from my usual academic routine as a law student then. I saw it as an opportunity to network and step out of my comfort zone.
YOU HAVE AN IMPRESSIVE RESEARCH PROFILE AS THE SAME IS EVIDENT FROM YOUR MULTIPLE PUBLICATIONS IN REPUTED LAW JOURNALS. WHAT ACCORDING TO YOU ARE THE MOST IMPORTANT ASPECTS OF AUTHORING RESEARCH PAPERS AND HOW DID THEY ACTUALLY HELP YOU IN YOUR CAREER?
(Alongside publishing in reputed law journals such as Symbiosis Student Law Review, Plebs Journal of Law, International Journal of Legal Sciences and Research, World Journal on Juristic Polity, International Journal of Law and Legal Jurisprudence Studies and International Journal of Legal Research, you have also published three blog posts on the iPleaders Law Blog. Please comment as to whether any specific reason inspired you to write particularly for the named blog.)
I believe that academic research is the best way to expand one’s understanding of a particular subject. It’s almost like completing a mini-Ph.D. on the subject. The hours that you spend doing literature review and empirical research refine your interpretation and research skills, something which all lawyers need irrespective of their field. Further, it helps you gain expertise in a particular sector; something which both employers and academic institutions appreciate. Lastly, it does add a line in the publications section of your CV. The best part, however, is the immense joy you feel if someone else cites or relies upon your research in his/her research. It makes you feel that your efforts have truly fructified.
As far as my blog posts on the iPleaders Law Blog (“Blog”) are concerned, I chose to publish my blog posts on the Blog because of its fantastic readership and subscription. The quality of blogposts that are published on the Blog is of a superior quality and practically relevant. Further, in the light of the market standing of I-Pleaders, any association with them is certainly beneficial. Hence, I chose the Blog to publish my articles.
WHAT PROMPTED YOU TO FOUND A JOURNAL SPECIFICALLY FOCUSING ON COMMERCIAL LAW?
(Pranav has founded the law journal International Commercial Law Review while managing his job at the same time as well as secured top legal professionals and academicians to be part of the Advisory Board of the Journal.)
Peer contribution provides tremendous insights and fresh perspective. This has been my primary motivation behind founding the ICLR. I look at ICLR as a platform where one can put forth his/her ideas and at the same time get recognised for the value additions that he/she makes. Lastly, legal editing has always been a pleasure and a privilege for me. The kind of intellectual enrichment one gets through legal editing (or any type of editing for that matter) cannot be reduced to words.
YOU HAVE ALSO RECENTLY AUTHORED A BOOK TITLED COMMENTARY ON THE INSOLVENCY AND BANKRUPTCY CODE, 2016 (DECODING THE LAW OF INSOLVENCY AND BANKRUPTCY) WHICH IS THE FIRST BOOK IN INDIA ON THIS SUBJECT. PLEASE COMMENT ON THAT.
I had been following the Insolvency and Bankruptcy Code, 2016 (“Code”) since it was a Bill as I knew that this Code would be a complete game changer once implemented. While I did not have any ambition to set a record by writing the first book on the Code, I will say that it happened rather intermittently. So, once the Code was passed by the Parliament (i.e. on 11th May 2016), I foresaw a demand for some intellectual material on the Code (since you cannot rely only on the Bare Act). Before I undertook the task of penning the book, I made some enquiries myself. I asked around if any book has come up or whether any book is coming up to which everybody replied in the negative. So, that’s where the thought to pen the book set in. I thought that if nobody had written or was writing a book on the Code then why could I not do it myself. At least, that way, I knew I was setting a foundation by providing some literature on the Code for everyone’s benefit. This was my impetus to penning the book.
I penned this book while being employed at my erstwhile workplace. Managing my job and penning the book was indeed a task for me. I had to comply with the publication deadline and underperforming at work or taking a leave from office wasn’t an option that I had kept open for myself. So, I burnt the midnight oil. I mean literally. To be honest, there were several occasions while penning the book when I did not know as to where I was headed or what my effort would result into. I had to sacrifice time with family and friends. This caused a lot of upheaval and discontent amongst them. I still persisted nevertheless as I knew I had to comply with the publication deadline come what may. Then came a time when I let go all worry and anxiety with respect to the result and thought of focusing only on penning the book and more importantly the content. I realized deeply that I can only control my inputs and not the result. I was mentally prepared to face both praise and humiliation with respect to my book. Thankfully, it was received well and it got decent reviews.
WHAT ACCORDING TO YOU SHOULD A LAW STUDENT CONCENTRATE ON DURING HIS/ HER TIME IN LAW SCHOOL IN ORDER TO BECOME A GOOD LEGAL PROFESSIONAL AFTER GRADUATING FROM LAW SCHOOL?
A law student’s first priority in law school should be to find a practice area at the earliest. I have earlier in this interview enlisted the criteria one should consider while zeroing down on a practice area. Once you have identified your practice area, 50% of your job is done. The remaining 50% of your job is to refine your knowledge and skills with respect to the practice area of your choice. Second, time management is the way ahead. I have seen many law students (including many of my batch mates) totally waste their time doing counter-productive activities. While I do not judge them, as it is a matter of personal choice, I do say that what you sow is what you reap (cause and effects). The law is infallible. You can’t do the same thing over and over again and expect different results. Third, learn to look at the larger picture. I have seen many law students remain stuck up over trivial things and completely miss out the larger scheme of things which is nothing but their own long term career interests.
AFTER GRADUATING, YOU COMPLETED THE ENTIRE LEGAL COMPLIANCE MODULE OFFERED BY THE NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF SECURITIES MARKETS. WHAT PROMPTED YOU TO ENROLL FOR THIS AND HOW DID YOU MANAGE TO CLEAR THIS MODULE IN THE FIRST ATTEMPT WHILE MANAGING YOUR JOB?
Commercial law does not operate in isolation. There are several other areas of law and finance that intersect. In order to bring about a more balanced approach while pursuing a career in commercial law, I chose to pursue the legal compliance module offered by the National Institute of Securities Markets (NISM). Pursuing the module gave me exposure to the legal and financial compliances applicable to the issuers and the intermediaries in the securities markets. You don’t have to be super intelligent to clear the NISM examination. All that it takes is preparation and practice. I used to study over the weekends and appear for mock examinations during the weekdays (before and after office hours at home).
YOU RECENTLY CLEARED THE ALL INDIA BAR EXAMINATION (AIBE). WHILE PREPARING FOR THE SAME, YOU ALSO ENROLLED FOR THE BARHACKER PROGRAM OFFERED BY iPLEADERS. HOW WAS YOUR EXPERIENCE WITH BARHACKER? WOULD YOU RECOMMEND IT TO OTHER AIBE ASPIRANTS?
Many people assume that since the All India Bar Examination (AIBE) is an open book exam, it can be cleared without any preparation. In reality, it’s otherwise. Although the AIBE is an open book exam, people often forget that it is a time bound examination and most of the questions that are asked are application based rather than being direct. Also, the syllabus is vast. For e.g. in the AIBE that I appeared in i.e. AIBE IX, the Environmental Law component was valued for only 5 marks. What this actually meant was all that acts, rules and regulations covered under the Indian Environmental Law would carry 5 marks out of which the Bar Council of India can ask a question on anything and I mean anything under the scope and ambit of Indian Environmental Law. Like this, there were other areas of law that more or less carried proportionate weightage in the paper except for Cr.P.C and Contract Law (which are again vast subjects). Statistically speaking, about 37% candidates failed the AIBE in 2012. So, it certainly isn’t an easy examination. Like any other competitive exam, you need to prepare and practice over and over again in order to crack it in the first attempt.
Many newbie lawyers who join the legal profession get caught up with office work which leaves them with no time to prepare for the exam. That’s exactly where a course like BarHacker adds value. The course has a result oriented approach and team iPleaders ensures that you are equipped with the best tools to clear this exam. If you religiously follow their tips, techniques and study methods, chances are that you will clear the AIBE in the first attempt. I give full credit to BarHacker for my AIBE result and, yes, I recommend this course to all AIBE aspirants.
WHAT FINAL PIECE OF ADVICE DO YOU WANT TO PASS ON TO THE READERS?
Believe in yourself and make the most out of every moment. Use your time wisely and never lose sight of your goals.
Suhail Mathur graduated in law from National Law University, Delhi, batch of 2014. He is currently engaged with a reputable international law firm. He is also the author of the bestselling book The Bhairav Putras, and has been ranked as one of the top 50 Indian authors to follow.
In this interview, he talks to us about:
His experience at NLU, Delhi and his decision to pursue law.
His view on internships.
His decision to write a book and the challenges he faced as a first time writer.
His experience as a cricket commentator.
What prompted you to consider law as a viable career choice? If not law, what other options would you have considered for your career?
I wanted to become a film director. But film direction and other related courses all happen to be postgraduate degrees. So I was wondering what other avenues I could explore. During my school days, I was a member of the debating forum, and was extremely passionate about it. So I eventually realized that pursuing law would be the best course of action, as is provides adequate intellectual stimulation, keeps you on your toes and pushes you to keep thinking out of the box. Moreover, the fact that your victories or your losses were not yours alone but were also shared by your client was greater motivation to work harder.
Describe your experience at NLU, Delhi as an undergraduate law student. Any memorable incidents you would like to share?
My experience at NLU, Delhi was quite pleasant. We shared a fantastic rapport with our professors and seniors. I’m still in touch with most of them and we keep meeting from time to time. There were only two batches, and everyone knew each other by name. It was a closely knit community. There is a lot of activism now, which wasn’t the case during our time. The campus also possesses a greater degree of gender sensitivity now. The college atmosphere was better during our time.
What activities were you a part of in college?
I was heavily into debating. I participated in the Oxford format of debate, which was a rarity since most of the students participated in Parliamentary debates. I was perhaps the only one who debated in the Oxford style. I participated in 6-7 debating competitions, and I won all of them. Other than that, I would make short films and student films during my tenure whenever we had a session break. I wrote my bestselling book The Bhairav Putras during my time at law school. Since we had fewer classes in the 4th and 5th years, I could actively indulge in creative pursuits. In my 5th year, I also ventured into cricket commentary for Star Sports and Airtel’s mobile application.
How did you decide to write your first book The Bhairav Putras? What were the challenges you faced as a first-time writer?
On a lighter note, I always saw authors from IIMs and IITs writing books, and thought that it was high time that an NLU student also did the same. But to be really honest, you need to have the passion to write. Merely wanting to write doesn’t suffice; you need to be skilled as well. I had been in my school’s editorial board and I used to write and direct a lot of plays. There was a point when I was making short films and they were being circulated among friends and family. I realized that all that I was trying to do was tell a good story and if that story were told in the form of a book, it would reach a larger audience.
History and mythology are two things I am passionate about, and I was very clear that when I write a book, it should be a culmination of both. My book is predominantly a historical thriller with loads of adventure and a dash of mythology.
As far as challenges are concerned, the challenges are not in writing a book; they lie in finding a good publisher. When I wrote my book, I got eighteen contracts from publishing houses. Some of the publishing offices were asking me to pay to get published, and I was very clear that I wouldn’t do that. I would rather not have my work published at all than pay. Eventually, Red Ink Publishers came on board, they brought out the book with a huge print run, and the book did exceedingly well. The book is currently in its fourth edition, and it’s been the number one best seller on Amazon eight times and for sixty consecutive weeks it was on Amazon’s bestseller list.
How does one get their book published?
If you actually want to write a book, you should first go to a literary agent. When my book did very well I was invited to a lot of literary festivals, and I came to know that young authors weren’t being given their due by literary agents. Being an author myself, I wanted to change that. So I started the company, “The Book Bakers”, where we help authors get published and undertake editing, cover designing and marketing work for books. We currently deal with 45-50 publishing houses pan India which includes all the major publishing houses.
Recently, The Great Khali, the WWE wrestler, collaborated with us on his autobiography, which we placed on Penguin India. I love to work with first-time authors and have helped many of them.
Many times it happens that if you send out a book directly to a publisher, they may not read it with as much interest because they get thousands of scripts on a daily basis. But a script sent by an agent is better received since as they think it has passed a preliminary test of quality.
Also, we guys don’t send it to the editorial and submission IDs but to the personal IDs of the individuals looking at different genres of publishing, whether it’s literary fiction, commercial fiction or non-fiction. It becomes much more streamlined and straightforward, and also helps the aspiring authors. I am very accessible on Facebook, as well as on our e-mail ID which is thebookbakers@gmail.com. People are free to write to us and we are always willing to help them.
How did you manage the time to write a book?
The thing is that if you have the passion, zeal and dedication to pursue your interest, you will manage to do that. At no point did I write the book in class or in my hostel. I wrote the book only on weekends at home. I finished writing The Bhairav Putras within the 50-60 days that stretched over a year. You have to see how to find time for both the things because you don’t want your law school’s studies to suffer in this. You need to keep your passion and profession side by side, and that’s how you make a perfect mix.
One of the things I am quite saddened about is that in the legal sphere, the people at the top of the ladder are quite narrow-minded in their conceptualization of a lawyer. On various occasions, they ask me why I wish to continue with law now that I am a successful author. But what these guys fail to understand is that they are undermining themselves in the process. They are undermining the ability of a lawyer to engage in multitasking. You could be a top corporate lawyer, a good writer, and also a successful literary agent. When people in other occupations and professions can be writers in their concerned fields successfully, I don’t see why lawyers can’t, and that mentality needs to change.
How was your experience when you were interviewed by various news channels? Do you have a PR agent? How did you ensure good publicity for your book?
In India it was a great thing that a law student was debuting with mythological and historical fiction. So the response that I got was splendid. The very famous legal magazine Lex Witness partnered with us as our official legal magazine partners, for which we thanked them in the trailer and the book. They covered me in three of their issues, including a preview, interview, and a review. The prominent online portal Infibeam was my official online partner, and we had a very successful outing with them too. People showed a lot of encouragement in that aspect.
I received endorsement blurbs from several known personalities as well. Ajit Agarkar has been my favourite cricketer and I got in touch with his wife, Mrs. Fatema Agarkar and she was very sweet. She got me in touch with Ajit and he wrote an endorsement blurb for my book. My college Vice Chancellor, Professor Ranbir Singh, Professor Sucheta Mahajan, Mr. Amrit Mathur, Mr. Mayank Austen Soofi, and many more wrote endorsement blurbs for my book, which meant a lot to me as a first time writer.
To ensure good publicity for your book you must, foremost, have a good product with you. Then you need to sell that product. If you are making a good product and not selling it well in the market, then nobody is going to know about it. It was important for the people in the legal field to know what a student of law was capable of doing, because not only did that promote me, but also my college. The first batch had not yet graduated from my college at the time and therefore garnering positive publicity for my alma mater was important to me. It reflects well on my college’s credentials as well as mine.
The Book Bakers has actually revolutionized the entire system of marketing and PR these days. Most of the PR was earlier confined to social media. Now we have tied up with television channels and radio stations, cinemas, metros, newspapers and magazines, and that’s the kind of PR we are willing to give to our authors and other authors who may want to market their book. Seeing a book trailer on a TV channel is unprecedented, and if people want to do that, we are giving them that opportunity. It’s very important to stand at the place where you are, and have a vision for the future. One must set targets for oneself; think about where they want to see themselves five-ten years down the line and work towards that goal.
How did you become a cricket commentator for Star Sports and Airtel’s mobile application? Being a lawyer why did you decide to become a cricket commentator?
Cricket has always been a passion and I always loved watching the game. When I was in the 4th standard I was invited by Indian coach, Mr. Anshuman Gaekwad, to meet the entire team because he was very impressed with my knowledge of the sport. Back then I wanted to write a book on cricketers, describing their personal likes, and get an insider’s view of their lives. I actually met the Indian team on the first day of the Delhi Test match in which Anil Kumble took ten wickets. Mr. Gaekwad sent Mr. VVS Laxman along with me to meet every cricketer and gave me an India cap for my cricket knowledge. I went on a cricket show called “Stumped” and was later invited by Mr. Harsha Bhogle for an hour long chat. And all of this happened when I was just nine years old! Mr. Sunil Gavaskar, who also shares the same date of birth as mine, 10th July, sent a hand written birthday wish to me. People really encouraged me at that point in time, and so the interest was always there. I always used to do commentary at home for fun whenever a match was on, and finally, Mr. Raman Bhanot and his organization, which ties up with the Star Sports and Airtel, provided me with an apt opportunity. Whenever there was a match, I used to do cricket commentary and covered the Ashes, India’s tours to South Africa, New Zealand, the Asia Cup and IPL. It was a great experience and I cherish that a lot and had it not been for my law firm job, I would have continued with this for a longer period of time.
Is it crucial to participate in various competitive activities in a law school? What was your experience in this regard?
It’s good to take part in moot courts, debates, and other co-curricular activities as it helps in building self-confidence. The ground reality at law firms is that they do concentrate on a person’s marks more than anything else. It’s disappointing because it’s necessary for lawyers to have a well-rounded personality. The change needs to start from the law firms’ end, in the way they recruit and filter candidates, rather than the students’ end, because law students are doing wonderfully well in their student life.
You chose to work at a top law firm. Why not litigation? How did you prepare for your interviews?
I have always wanted to work for a law firm. Litigation never interested me much. All my internships with law firms have been challenging and rewarding in equal measure. They were great learning curves. I knew that I wanted to eventually work at a law firm and my time interning with some of them just bolstered my conviction further.
When you are going for an interview you need to know the basics. But what do the basics encompass? Do you consider contract law, criminal law and CPC? There is no definition of what the basics comprise. It is not possible to remember everything about the law and asking the candidates vague questions is unfair. Students are taught the rudiments in their first year but it is impossible to assimilate and retain that information throughout your graduation. There need to be better defined parameters when law firms are testing potential candidates.
I am generally high on my confidence and possess the ability to convince people. I really worked hard at my internships as well. I had certain achievements under my belt, and I had also worked at the firm and done well as an intern, so there was no reason why I can’t do the same once I actually joined the firm. These are the things you really need to play on. You need to play on your strengths and these were my strengths. Some people sit down and go through each and every book of law and make themselves perfect so that they face no issue while answering questions at interviews.
The law firms need to select based on the person’s personality and their ability to interpret the law effectively. I hadn’t done any extensive reading right before my interviews, but just played on my strengths with confidence.
How was your experience as a junior lawyer in a law firm? Did you acquire any important skills while working there?
I had a great time working there. It is a challenging role to work in a law firm. The idea is to work as much as you can. If there is no work, you begin to stagnate and that’s not a very good thing. If you are getting an opportunity to work, you should take it up, and that’s how you learn more. Also, you will create a good impression in the firm. There is a world of difference between when you are interning and when you are working as a lawyer. As an intern, you are supposed to give out information to the lawyer, but as a lawyer, you are supposed to interpret that information given. So what I learnt was how to interact with the clients when we went for discussions, and how we must convince them.
What are your views on the desirability of foreign law firms entering the Indian market?
There are so many law firms abroad and they have been waiting for so many years to enter the Indian market. I just want to tell Indian law firms that if you believe in yourself, let foreign competition come in. You already have a head start in terms of your presence in the country and knowing its laws. The international firms would of course be hiring Indian lawyers but they are the ones who are at a disadvantage because they are entering a new field while the Indian law firms are the established players. So why not help many more law aspirants secure good jobs. I always feel a little saddened when I see a law student not getting placed. There were some very talented people in my batch who couldn’t make the cut, and I felt very bad. When you have made it to a National Law University or a reputed law school, then that should be reason enough for people to trust you and your ability. It’s actually a wrong mindset to continuously prevent foreign law firms from entering the market. If there is globalisation happening all over the world, then why not let foreign players come over here as well!
Do you think having family members or mentors with a legal background helps in this profession?
I don’t have anyone in my immediate family who is in the legal industry. I don’t see my lineage as a shortcoming. If there are no lawyers before me, why not be the first one in the family! I don’t consider it to be a disadvantage or a disadvantage. From college, we gave our interviews and came through the hard way. But the process is probably simpler for students with lawyers in their families because they have contacts. I see a lot of lawyers get ahead in their jobs because their parents are partners at the firm.
What would be your message to our readers?
You must have set goals and have the ability to complete them but everything isn’t as rosy as it seems. At law school, everyone will tell you to do great internships in order to secure a job. But this isn’t a foolproof plan. One needs to be realistic and only then can one tackle the challenges in this profession better. Also continue with your creative pursuits and don’t limit yourself as a lawyer. There is certainly more to a lawyer than what law firms would tend to make out of them. I balanced my legal work, agency work and my writing and if you divide the time you can achieve success. I have recently signed a three book deal with Om Books International, a noted Indian book store chain which operates abroad as well . If you are passionate about something then the legal work can co-exist with other creative pursuits. Never give up hope, but be realistic too. People will tell you a lot of things and at the end of the day, I believe it is your luck that is going to take you places more than merit. If it was based on merit alone, then a lot of people who are deserving would have got the opportunities they didn’t get. I feel that I was deserving as well as lucky, and am thankful to God for the same.
The authors Anuroop Omkar and Kritika are graduates of Gujarat National Law University (GNLU), Gandhinagar and are presently working in the Corporate Department of Lakshmikumaran & Sridharan. They have donned many hats. They jointly run a social service award Bauribandhu Mohapatra and GNLU Award for Social Service, co founded the company Bridge Mediation & Consulting Pvt. Ltd. and have been working tirelessly to spread the concept of mediation among the common masses and commercial groups in India. To give the subject more prominence and acceptance both among the masses and scholars, they decided to pen down a book on negotiation and mediation with LexisNexis. The book is extremely simple in terms of language and international in terms of quality and content. The concepts of negotiation and mediation have been explained with real life examples, childhood learning, mythological anecdotes and case studies of commercial negotiations. The book is titled ‘The Art of Negotiation and Mediation- A Wishbone, Funny Bone and a Backbone’ and is presently available on Flipkart, Amazon and LexisNexis.
Tell us a bit about your law school experience of preparing projects and dissertations. Did the practice help you to in writing a legal book?
If you make projects even a little seriously in law schools, they contribute to your knowledge base and enhance your research skills. According to us, making projects becomes interesting only if you choose an interesting topic, a real research area of law. Of course, it is not always possible, but at least in the subjects that you wish to specialize, you can always try to choose a critical area of research. Projects and dissertations help you evaluate what is your area of interest. We know many of our friends from law school who became interested in their practice area after they researched on the subject for a research paper at law school or during an internship.
Making projects and dissertations was different from writing a book in many aspects. Projects and dissertations were purely law based where we presented the existing laws and gave our interpretation and suggestions. Our book is our attempt to bring law to the common masses. We have tried to present the practice of negotiation and mediation in a way that people who don’t practice law can also easily understand. Additionally, we have also tried to bring in the commercial aspects for businessmen and practitioners. We have also discussed business case studies where applicable.
Lastly, I (Anuroop) always wanted to write on a subject where I was so comfortable that I would not have to footnote every sentence I write. While it was obligatory for us to footnote everything in our projects, our book is our own take on negotiation and mediation in India. We have made minimal use of footnotes by writing our original thoughts and interpretation. The book has helped me achieve my law school dream of minimalizing or even doing away with footnotes by promoting original thought and innovation.
Can you please explain to us the sub title of your book ‘A Wishbone, Funny Bone and a Backbone’?
We use techniques of negotiation and mediation regularly yet without consciously being aware of it in everyday life. Sometimes, the techniques don’t work to our advantage because we have the tool but we don’t know how to effectively use it. The book explains these techniques by relating them to stories, anecdotes or facts we already know but did not realize that they taught us something about mediation or negotiation. So, coming to the subtitle, if you wish to summarize the main attributes of a successful mediator or negotiator he should have a wishbone, a funny bone and a backbone.
Our subtitle is best explained in our preface. Hence quoting:
You need to have dream clouds floating in your head. You need a clear vision for what you want. You need drive and an innovative thought process. Or simply an idea that is so simple, it is out of this world. You need a wishbone.
You need the will power to sustain the setbacks in life. You need to know how to turn a frown upside down. You need optimism to see every situation with a positive twist. You need hope. You need cheer. You need a funny bone.
And finally to complete the vertebral column of dealing with disputes; you need a backbone. You need to know when your demands are reasonable. You need to know when not to allow someone to take you for a ride. You need to know when not to back out. You need to stand up for the fundamental principles of your life.
You need a wishbone, a funny bone and a backbone to be the alchemist who comes out of disputes with more than what you had when you plunged into it.
Both of you being full time Corporate and Transactional lawyers, how exactly did you write a book on ‘The Art of Negotiation and Mediation’?
Apart from our active legal practice, we also run Bridge Mediation and Consulting Pvt. Ltd. (BMCPL). BMCPL is one of the pioneers in organized international mediation and multi-cultural negotiation training and practice in India. BMCPL is in the process of providing comprehensive, world class training for students, corporate professionals, social workers, diplomats and bureaucrats in India. The training is presently provided in collaboration with Media Logos, Italy who bring in international mediators as trainers. We have held trainings for students and professionals with Tata Institute of Social Sciences (TISS), Mumbai, Gujarat National Law University (GNLU) and National Law University Jodhpur (NLU-J). So, along with our practice, we have been always interested in increasing awareness and promoting the practice of mediation in India.
Negotiation also, is the main component of every one of our transactions. The terms of a negotiated agreement vary broadly based on practical needs of the client, feasibility and durability of the terms negotiated through the agreement and legal tenability depending on various jurisdictions and sector of business. If an agreement is well negotiated, the dispute resolution will never have to be enforced by the contracting parties. A fine tuned agreement with clear negotiation based on the abovementioned criteria hardly ends up triggering the dispute resolution clause. Even if in the worst case scenario, if there is a dispute between the parties, a very strong and a reliable mechanism of third party mediation in confidentiality should be resorted to resolve the disputes without washing dirty linen in public.
Explain to us a bit about the process of mediation.
In mediation, a third neutral party manages the interaction between disputing parties. This ensures constructive negotiation between the disputing parties and helps them to agree on a resolution that is fair, durable, and workable. It is the disputants and not the mediator who creates and finally agrees on how the dispute needs to be resolved. In a way, mediation is nothing but the use of negotiation to resolve a dispute outside the traditional dispute resolution framework.
In mediation, the parties retain control over the dispute and its outcome. This central feature of mediation- self-determination by the parties- is a facet of democratic process that the voice and wisdom of people can shape outcomes responsive to particular situations. In this respect, mediation is fundamentally different from litigation and arbitration, where power to determine the outcome is ceded to an arbitrator, judge or jury.
Many myths surround mediation that mask its benefits and prevent its popularity in the marketplace. There is a common belief among business professionals that mediation lacks closure or binding authority. However this is not the case. A settlement agreement executed by the parties post mediation is as binding as all other contracts.
There are so many other books by international authors on negotiation and mediation. How do you see your book contributing to the existing literature?
As you have rightly pointed out, there is good international literature available on negotiation and mediation. We have referred to many of these good books like ‘Getting to Yes’ by William Ury and ‘The Middle Voice’ by Lela Love (who also happens to be one of my (Anuroop) trainers at the program I attended at CEU Hungary). However, cultural variations and cross cultural confluence plays a key role in the process of negotiation and mediation.
We wanted to elaborate on the concepts and international practices with an Indian flavour. It is important for us to understand that negotiation and mediation are not alien, Western concepts. They have been part of Indian culture since time immemorial. There are so many examples on use of negotiation, mediation, related techniques and concepts in the Aesop Fables, Jataka Tales as also in the Indian epics of Mahabharata and Ramayana. We have tried to introduce these concepts to our Indian readers by co relating these numerous stories we have heard since childhood but did not know had so much significance in our adult life.
Is the book India specific or does it have any global significance?
Apart from the easily affordable price of the book in the Indian market and the Indian anecdotes and case studies, the practice of mediation and negotiation has certain established best practices which have proved to work worldwide. However, the psychology, approach, expectations and cultural practices in negotiation and mediation vary significantly in every country. We have tried to present mediation as it is understood in most regions of the world where it is practised widely like USA, Europe and Singapore. So, the book definitely has global significance. Additionally, India is the next global market and the book will be useful for any person who wishes to establish business connections in India and wishes to understand Indian psychology towards negotiation and dispute resolution.
How is a 40 hour mediation training different from the regular ADR classes attended by law students across various law schools in the country?
The ADR classes in law schools are definitely very useful in preparing a base for future alternate dispute resolution (ADR) practice. The classes introduce us to the basics and lay the foundation upon which we can specialize and build a sky scraper if we wish to. But Indians presently associate ADR practice with only arbitration and the same reflects in the course curriculum at law schools. Students end up studying the Arbitration and Conciliation Act, 1996 in great detail. A class or at the max two are devoted to mediation. Negotiation is not yet acknowledged as a mode of dispute resolution although lawyers have been informally settling matters outside court since the time court system exists in India. To top it all, ADR is an optional subject in many law schools and students many times end up choosing subjects which are more ‘scoring’ or require ‘less effort’.
An internationally accredited 40 hour mediation training focuses more on skill development rather than legal interpretation. The training is generally conducted in a round table discussion format and provides participants an insight into not just mediation best practices and procedures but also related psychology, neurosciences, communication and body language. After attending the training, participants tend to approach everyday life differently. The participant’s perception of every conversation and difficult situation changes after the training. Of course, the willingness of a participant to absorb information and practice skills is another matter. That being said, being a good negotiator or mediator is more about a mindset adjustment rather than knowing the law. Most importantly, you do not need to be a qualified lawyer, psychologist or social worker to be eligible to apply for training and be a successful mediator. For instance, the housewives saved India from the impact of global financial crisis through their savings habit without being an economist. These housewives who undertake crisis management daily can also be very effective mediators.
Can the experience of a lawyer or a judge be a good enough criterion and experience for being an excellent mediator?
As we said earlier, it is not your qualification or experience in law which makes you a good mediator. What makes you a good mediator is your outlook towards disputes and life in general. For anybody to be a good mediator, you first need to step away from the adjudicatory mindset. You need to dip into the age old Vedic knowledge and be detached from the disputing parties and their conflict. You need to help disputing parties clear the cobwebs of their hurt and aggression to arrive at the real issues underlying the dispute which need to be resolved. A mediator should always approach mediation with an attitude of fortifying long lasting relationships and maintaining public goodwill of the disputing parties. We all know that an emotionally agitated person can never make good decisions. An excellent mediator calms down agitated disputants and helps them achieve an objective outlook of their dispute. Indians have a typical habit of thinking that they can solve anybody’s disputes and that their suggestions are absolute. A good mediator never succumbs to this temptation. He brings the disputants to a position where they themselves chalk out a solution. Only when the disputants themselves come up with the solution, they actually implement it instead of again objecting or appealing the outcome in a court. More and more people are refusing to accept terms being dictated to them by someone else. The rejection of debt terms by Greek public referendum is a strong indication of this changing outlook.
Also, disputants generally come with very strong emotions and positions on a mediation/negotiation table. But the tight rope walk of a mediator requires him to not be affected by the strong emotions and positions being radiated by a disputant. If the mediator is himself not objective, neutral and highly pragmatic, how will he help the disputing parties?
Bottom line-anybody can be a mediator if the person can inculcate these qualities and streamline them through training and practice. Your aptitude plus training by the right resource who is knowledgeable in international practices is key.
Does mediation have any kind of legal sanctity in India?
Presently, matters at court are being referred to mediation under Section 89 of the Code of Civil Procedure. Similar mechanism for commercial disputes is provided under Section 442 of Companies Act, 2013 but the provision and rules have not been notified yet. Indian laws provide for mediation only after parties approach the courts. Pre-litigation mediation is not governed by any laws in India presently. However, I wish to clarify here that the settlement agreement even in a pre-litigation mediation is binding under the Indian Contract Act, 1872.
The Arbitration and Conciliation Act, 1996 provides for conciliation but not mediation. It is important here to note that conciliation is not the same as mediation. ‘Conciliation’ implies a stronger form of intervention. The conciliator, not the parties, often develops and proposes the terms of settlement. In conciliation, the conciliator is usually seen as an authority figure who is responsible for figuring out the best solution for the parties. The parties come to the conciliator seeking guidance. In this regard, the role of a conciliator is distinct from the role of a mediator who is more like a referee. Mediation is nothing but assisted negotiation.
What do you mean by ‘international best practices’ of mediation as referred in your book?
Mediation is being practiced professionally in United States of America since almost the eighteenth century. Pre-litigation mediation is practised extensively in civil matters in the European Union. Due to this extended practice of professional mediation, these practitioners have come up with certain principles and practices which increase the success rate of mediation. These rules are universal and have worked across the globe. Extensive research and market analysis on how mediation works best has been conducted. In Russian there is a ‘Kahavat’ as we say in India: The wise man learns from someone else’s mistakes, the smart man learns from his own and the stupid one never learns. When the world has already set standards based on trial and error, these standards should first be adopted and implemented by us to build the foundation of mediation in India. At the next level, we should customize these standards based on our own empirical research and innovate further.
One of the best examples of an international best practice is maintaining confidentiality. The names of the disputing parties, the facts of the dispute, the mediation proceedings and the outcome of the mediation should be guarded by confidentiality. This helps disputants preserve goodwill and resolve their disputes in a way they think best without the pressure of public scrutiny and expectations.
Has your book been launched officially? If not, when is the official launch of the book? Can the readers attend your book launch?
Our book is presently available on Flipkart, Amazon and LexisNexis for the readers. But the official book launch is at India International Centre, New Delhi on 7th August 2015. Interested readers who wish to attend the book launch can definitely drop us a mail at omkaranuroop@gmail.com on or before 21st July 2015 and we would love to have them at the launch subject to availability.
Dr. Sibichen K Mathew is an Indian Revenue Service (IRS) officer of the 1992 batch. An alumnus of the Indian Institute of Management- Bangalore and the Jawaharlal Nehru University, he currently serves as Advisor to the Telecom Regulatory Authority of India (Joint Secretary Level). Apart from his role as a Senior Civil Servant, he is also a leadership trainer, blogger, author, sociologist, and a policy researcher.
He is the recipient of the UGC Research Fellowship and has been awarded gold medals from the National Police Academy and National Academy of Direct Taxes. He is the author of the books, “Making People Pay: The Economic Sociology of Taxation” and “When the Boss is Wrong”. He was also the college topper of the Bachelor of Law degree from the Karnataka State Law University.
What brought you into legal studies after having extensive experience in Academics?
(Sibichen holds a Bachelors in Chemistry, Masters in Sociology from Kerala University, an M.Phil from Jawaharlal Nehru University and a Ph.D from Bharathiar University, Coimbatore.)
I believe that learning is a continuous process. It never stops if we are in search of wisdom. The more I learn, I understand that how ignorant I am. That shatters my ego.
Of all the courses I pursued, one that gave me immense satisfaction was my LLB course. Law is one discipline which instantly gives the student a feeling of empowerment. I always felt that a formal schooling in law can give us tremendous confidence in dissecting the social reality sensibly and will give the necessary courage to fight for justice. Law and justice are inextricably intertwined.
Being a topper in LL.B please give us a few actionable tips on scoring higher grades.
(Sibichen has received his LL.B degree from Karnataka State Law University in 2012 where he was a college topper and a rank holder.)
Once you enrol for an LL.B course, the first thing you need to do is to connect and approach whatever you see, read and hear with a legal perspective. Even when one reads the daily newspaper, an alert and keen law student would link the facts and incidents narrated there with the extant legal provisions and judicial positions he learnt. For example, a typical newspaper contains a number of reports about crimes happened across the world. An easy way to learn the discipline is by linking each such incident of crime with the corresponding sections of IPC, Cr PC, etc and other specific Acts. You will not forget the sections later-on.
The second tip is to cultivate a habit of quickly glancing at the important decisions of the Supreme Court, various high courts and tribunals reported in the online and offline sources at least once a week if not on a daily basis. By subscribing to various news aggregators, you can get instant access to your chosen fields in your smart phones.
Thirdly, liberally quote the case laws and the gist of the decisions while answering your questions during the examinations.
Please note that there is no alternative to bare Acts. One has to read and understand every word used in a particular section. Commentaries can be read later. And, refer the guides only for revision. Prepare your own notes after reading the bare Acts and the commentaries. Include the latest case laws in the answers you prepared. Please quote connected incidents and the judicial observations reported recently by media to illustrate in your answers.
Tell us about your B-School experience and also give some highlights of your course which you pursued from IIM-B.
(Sibichen has also pursued a full-time post-graduation in Public Policy and Management (PGP-PM) from Indian Institute of Management, Bangalore (IIM-B).)
The course at IIM-B really opened up my world view beyond what I learned and did before. It was a course that inducted me deeply to various areas such as international trade, global public policy, international regulatory institutions, public finance, decision making models, business laws, business process flow and human resources management. The teaching methods and evaluation were extremely rigorous but of very high quality.
Was it a professional requirement to pursue courses in Public Policy and Taxation to enhance more in your career?
(Sibichen has pursued courses on International Public policy and Corporate Taxation & Advocacy Skills from the Syracuse and Duke Universities respectively.)
Though it was a professional requirement, I could use the opportunity to gather data on some of my pet subjects such as transnational tax evasion, money laundering and white collar crimes. I could interact with experts during my stay in the universities and there are vast resources available in the libraries of these universities. Law students should try to pursue a post graduate degree in any of the best universities abroad.
Please comment on the quality and structure of these courses. How much practical knowledge did you gain from it?
The learning happens in a very liberal academic environment. The process is not one way, from teacher to student. The students learn from each other. The teachers also learn from the insights shared by the students. The nature of evaluation is also based on the choice of the students. One can give weightage to the assignments, projects, written examinations and oral presentations as per their choice. The global exposure is essential for a law student in an increasingly globalized world where businesses and entities function without borders.
After your graduation, which are the competitive exams you have taken?
While pursuing my graduation, I started writing many competitive examinations. I qualified a few examinations for jobs offered by the state government. I qualified for the UGC-JRF in my subject and I was the only student to get the fellowship in my subject from my university that year. Though I started preparing for the Civil Services Examination after I completed my graduation, the real push came only when I got admission in JNU as I saw many students studying more than 16 hours every day for it.
What motivated you to appear for UPSC? How was it cracking the UPSC in the early 90s?
(Sibichen is an Indian Revenue Service (IRS) officer of the 1992 batch, he is now in the ranks of Commissioner of Income Tax.)
To pass the civil services, one has to be jack of all trades, but master of none. That means, one should have some idea about all subjects under the sun. One has to open his eyes and ears to whatever happening across the globe. Read whatever you get. Have your own view on the affairs and policies of the institutions and the governments. Be systematic in the preparation. Be focussed while writing the answers.
Tell us about your experience working with the Income Tax Department of Government of India, in various capacities starting from Assistant Commissioner of Income Tax, which was your first post.
Indian Revenue Service offers challenging assignments to all the officers. There are diverse jobs within the career: Assessment, Criminal Investigation, Judicial roles, Administration, Systems Management, etc. One will get exposure to all types of businesses, tax laws, economic offences, innovative techniques of investigation, transnational tax practices etc. The job gives tremendous satisfaction and there is a culture of very high level of professionalism within the department. I could succeed in busting large rackets of organized tax evasion and received recognition from the Central Board of Direct Taxes, Ministry of Finance, Government of India consecutively for five years for contributing to the department by way of best practices at work.
In the meanwhile, you have authored two books titled “Making People Pay: The Economic Sociology of Taxation” and ‘’When the Boss is wrong’’. Please give a brief insight of these two books to our readers.
My first book, ‘Making People Pay: The Economic Sociology of Taxation’ is the result of about six years of research. My second book, ‘When the Boss is Wrong: Making and Unmaking of the Leader within You’ took about three years to write. It was difficult to get a good publisher for the first book, as it happens for any first time authors. The going was easy once the first book did extremely well in the market.
Why do you think “Making People Pay” attracted the readers so much? What kind of feedback you are getting regarding this book?
(Sibichen’s book “Making People Pay: The Economic Sociology of Taxation” has been reprinted thrice and very widely circulated across the globe.)
It was not clear for me why a country with considerable tax elasticity and tax potentiality found it difficult to attract more people to its tax rolls and gain more money to the direct taxes kitty. So I started my search for the answers and I realized the need for a systematic macro analysis of the issues. I was in fact plunging myself to what many call ‘research’ on the subject. Is tax aversion unique to some countries? My analysis proved not. There are several historical, political and sociological factors that deter people from paying taxes globally. It is not just economic factors that determine tax compliance as it is widely thought off. Attempt in this book was to analyze those factors. It threw open certain valid questions. Why people in some countries comply better than others? Why tax evasion is not frowned upon in some countries and disgraceful in some other countries? Any theoretical analysis on the behaviour of people is incomplete without analysis of primary data. Therefore a unique attempt was also made here to understand tax evasion and tax enforcement through a study of tax evaders (or who were branded so) themselves.. The interviews and case studies with them have, without exception, cumulatively and intellectually enriched me as they helped me to understand the behavioural pattern, attitudes, perceptions and expectations of taxpayers in general.
Are you planning to publish more books in future? Do you think your books will influence and attract young readers as well?
(Sibichen’s books were appreciated by M.N. Venkatachaliah, Former Chief Justice of India, Mr. Cyrus P. Mistry, Chairman Tata Sons; Mr. N.R. Narayana Murthy, Chairman Infosys Ltd; Mr. Abhinav Bhaduri, Chief Learning Officer at Wipro Limited; Mr. Anand Surana, Director Micro Labs for your published books.)
I have got appreciations not only from very eminent people but also from many young persons, students and retired people for both books. In the book, ‘When the Boss is Wrong’, I have presented 50 different dimensions of bad leadership and their ramifications for the people and the organization. There is also an attempt to suggest certain precautions and prescriptions for persons (both in their roles as a team member and a boss) and some precepts for the organizations concerned.
I have a blog named ‘Cyber Diary’ and I will be focussing on writing more articles in that for popular reading. Many times, blog posts are more powerful than published books.
How did you go about so many awards in your career?
(Sibichen is the recipient of a Gold medal from the University of Kerala for topping the Post Graduate Examination, a Gold medal from the National Police Academy, a Gold Medal from the National Academy of Direct Taxes for extracurricular activities, for securing “A” Grade for the post graduate courses which he completed from Jawaharlal Nehru University and Indian Institute of Management, for recognition for his work at Central Board of Direct Taxes for five years consecutively, UGC Research Fellowship and he was also nominated for Commonwealth fellowship and ICSSR /ISEC Fellowship.)
I don’t know. Maybe it’s a little bit of hard work, some strategic planning and a lot of blessings.
How was your experience serving as a Deputy Commissioner of Coimbatore as well as the Deputy Director (Investigation), in the Investigations Directorate working in the Tamil Nadu cadre?
The key duties in the above roles were to investigate tax evasion, detect black money and raise tax demands and penalties. I was successful in unearthing a few complex and organized tax evasion practices.
Can you share any memorable or interesting experiences in your stint as a Senior Authorized Representative at ITAT?
(Sibichen has worked mostly on money laundering and tax evasion cases while he was serving as the Senior Authorized Representative of the Department at the Income Tax Appellate Tribunal, Bangalore and as the Additional Commissioner of Bangalore (Investigations))
More than the opportunity to defend cases for the government, I got benefitted from the unique experience as a counsel. It sharpened my skills in advocacy and acquisition of legal knowledge, and gave tremendous confidence in arguing cases against the submissions of acclaimed legal experts.
What kind of cases you are dealing with at TRAI? Give some insights on those matters.
(Currently Sibichen is working as a Regional Head and Advisor in the Telecom Regulatory Authority of India (TRAI).)
My duties include monitoring of regulatory compliance by telecom, broadcasting and cable companies. I am also in charge of conducting regular meetings with all stakeholders in the states of Maharashtra, Goa, Karnataka and Kerala. Currently, the focus is on digitization of cable TV. We also collect feedback from the public on various policies and issues. Current discussions on platform services and net neutrality are some examples of such consultations with public.
You have so many landmark achievements in your life. Now, tell us what have been your failures and successes? What were the biggest hurdles and challenges in your life till date?
If I have failed anytime the blame should go to me only. Proper utilization of time, prioritization, sincerity and devotion to work, and goal setting are the keys to success. I feel that a person can become a successful individual and an acceptable personality in society by acquiring emotional intelligence, social intelligence, communication intelligence and cultural intelligence. These are the four pillars of success. I have mentioned this in detail in my latest book, ‘When the Boss is Wrong: Making and Unmaking of the Leader within You’.
If someone does not go to a top law school, would you say he still has a shot at a great career in law? What should such a person do to develop necessary skills and profile?
Please understand that the last time the name of the institution you studied your law matters is only when you get placed for the first time. From the second day of your career, your background is immaterial and irrelevant for all. They look at your: technical competence, professionalism, attitude, managerial and social skills and willingness to learn.
I am sure, a student who is not from a top national law school can get recognized and excel with the above in right proportion. If you are not from a high ranking law school, you may try to participate in national level law seminars, debates and moot courts and also write a few research papers in national or international journals. You will definitely get good placements.
What would be your advice to our readers who are budding lawyers and law students?
Never stop reading articles that can not only enhance knowledge, but also inspire you to achieve your goals. Prioritize your time.
My motto is ‘Promise Less; Deliver More’. I urge you also to earn a reputation of fulfilling the promises and sticking to deadlines.
