Tag: CS

Arun Gupta, Founder, Factum Legal, on a profile in Corporate Commercial work and the Corporate Secretarial
Arun Gupta is a Fellow member of ICSI and a member of the Bar Council of Delhi. He graduated with a B.Com(H) degree in 1995 followed by CS degree in 1999 and later qualified in law. Arun is a lawyer with more than 15 years experience in Corporate and Commercial matters.

Arun acted as a key contributor to the book authored by Corporate Professionals titled “Insight into Companies Bill 2012” and he is also an author of a book titled “Companies Act 2013- Impact on foreign companies in India” published by CCH, Wolters Kluwer in 2014.

He started his own firm – Factum Legal, Advocates and Solicitors in 2013.

In this interview he tells us about:
- Life, law and the choices he’s made while pursuing it.
- The benefits of having a commerce background while practicing corporate law and the value of additional degrees.
- Factum Legal – its establishment and his plans for expansion.
- His publication and the role of academic pursuits in a lawyer’s career.
How would you like to introduce yourself to our readers, most of whom are students studying law?

This is Arun Gupta, a Law Graduate and also a Fellow Member of ICSI, presently practicing as a lawyer in Corporate & Commercial Laws. I love to learn a lot and I’m always keen to upgrade my knowledge of changes in law and the impact of the same on industries.

Tell us about your life before you joined college. Where did your interests lie as a student and what made you gravitate towards law?

I was from a business family so as usual, I did not plan anything in my childhood. So I tried my luck in the family business also along with my studies, but after just a few months I realised that this is not my cup of tea and God had planned something else for me. I was always good in terms of scoring marks in school exams and enjoyed the law subjects, while doing regular B.com (h), so I think that was the beginning of an inclination to enter the field of corporate law.

You specialize in corporate matters, Mergers & Acquisitions, tax law, among others. How did your interests develop in this field?

Yes I specialise in corporate matters, Mergers & Acquisitions, Due Diligence, Compliances & Governance etc. Actually being a qualified company secretary and practitioner of Corporate Law what I enjoyed the most, from the beginning of my professional career, was to find solutions in all type of transactional issues in restructuring and also assessing and finding the potential risk in any acquisition or joint venture apart from governance and compliances issues. Being part of some fund raising activities including Initial Public Offer (IPO) & Preferential Allotment etc by corporates in India, the interest towards such areas developed and sharpened.

How helpful was your background in commerce in aiding you with a better understanding of corporate law? Would you recommend professional degrees like the Company Secretary degree or any other such degree?

This is very interesting, I strongly believe that a commerce background really helped me a lot in understanding commercial law, Economic and accounting issues. I initially registered myself for the science stream after passing class X, but after 5-7 days I shifted to the Commerce stream and I am extremely happy for that decision and thankful to one of my teachers for such wonderful advice. Well, I believe that an LLB degree itself gives a wider horizon in commercial, corporate, and Personal laws, but if somebody wants to explore Corporate law then a Company Secretary course would definitely add value to that person. My CS degree really helps me a lot in all kinds of Corporate Transactions and General Corporate Advisory, however one must not forget that the most important part in practical life is not really additional degrees but the approach in handling complex situations.

Tell us about your initial years in practise – from starting out independently to the time you founded your own firm. What challenges did you face initially?

Well, the initial years of practice were very tough, I started practicing from the beginning of my professional career and no one in my family was either an advocate/ Chartered accountant or company secretary, so to setup an independent practice was really a daunting task. But I did not bother about monetary earnings, what I concentrated on was whether I was earning knowledge or not and that really helped me in setting up own firm in 2013 again. So I think you need to maintain your patience also to be in the practice of law.

Your firm, Factum Legal, has been featured as one of the Promising Legal consultants of India, 2015 by SiliconIndia. Tell us about the firm in general and the kind of work you deal with on a daily basis.

Yes, we have been recognised as one of the Promising Legal consultants of India 2015 by a business magazine Silicon India and the credit goes to the hard work of our team factum legal and the trust of our clients. We are a boutique law firm providing a comprehensive range of legal services and solutions for domestic and international clients. Our practice area embraces advisory, execution and representation services and dispute resolution. We are involved in all kinds of M& A transactions, Legal Due Diligence, Commercial Agreements, Corporate Compliance, Governance & Secretarial Practice, Private Equity help desk, Litigation & Alternate Dispute Resolution, Inbound & Outbound Investment Transactions, Registration and Licensing Services, Renewable Power Projects.

What would you advise young lawyers who are starting out working in the corporate sector. What areas might they find interesting?

My advice is don’t jump into corporate law because it is a lucrative career, but do what you enjoy most. We are lucky that we are born and practicing the profession in India as there are ample opportunities in every sphere of Legal services, so you should choose the subject based upon your knowledge and interest. My advice to all young lawyers and students is that there is no shortcut to gain knowledge, you have to work hard to become an expert in your area of interest.

You have authored a book on the Companies Act 2013 and have quite a few publications to your name. How helpful is an academic pursuit in the life of a practising lawyer and how can one find time out for the same considering the hectic schedule one inevitably finds himself in?

Authoring a book or writing articles and publications needs a huge time investment, and you cannot do such things just for the sake of doing them. You can write articles on a particular topic when you have command over the subject. The practice of law is based upon knowledge and expertise and an academically strong lawyer can really achieve a lot in a short period of time. If you ask about finding time, then I am of the view that time is essential, time is precious but if you enjoy something you always have time to pursue those things. Just to inform you, now also, I am working on a book relating to Companies Act 2013.

In the present environment of cross border transaction among corporates, what is your strategy to expend internationally?

We as a firm, believe in collaboration and mutual cooperation, so in that direction, we have joined an international legal network, which will surely help us in gaining knowledge and executing cross border transaction with local and cultural expertise. Further we have also entered into a strategic relationship with a European Full service Law firm ‘Adamas’ to serve our clients in their cross border transactions in the best and most effective manner. We will continue to expend internationally with such mutual cooperation for another few years.

Finally, what would be your parting advice to our readers?

I would like to suggest everyone ‘Have a zeal to learn, work hard, and discover your interest area as early as possible’ and the rest will follow on its own.
February 27, 2016
Malek Shipchandler, Associate, Shardul Amarchand, on partaking in negotiation competitions and vacation scheme at Clifford Chance
Malek-ul-Ashtar Shipchandler, a 2014 batch graduate of ILS, Pune, is currently an Associate of Securities, Financial Regulatory, Corporate Law at Shardul Amarchand Mangaldas, having already worked with Economic Laws Practice (ELP) for a year.

In this interview, he speaks to us about:
- The significance of the Company Secretary (CS) course;
- The experience of a Vacation Scheme at Clifford Chance;
- The relevance of certification courses; and
- The ability to continue with legal writing even after joining a law firm.
Would you say that high school experiences led you to choose law?

(Malek was part of the Student Council at school and participated in Model United Nations (MUNs) simulations, both as a delegate and Secretary General, and attended the Global Young Leaders Conference (GYLC) in Washington D.C and New York.)

These experiences were definitely instrumental, coupled with encouragement from my family and teachers who saw in me an aptitude for oration and argumentation. I chose to be a commerce student in my penultimate and final year at school, perhaps because I was not exceptional at science related subjects but did fairly well in commerce related subjects such as economics and business administration studies; towards the end of my final year at school, the choice for me was either finance or law.

Please share with our readers your experience at law school. What kind of activities did you participate in? How did you develop an interest for moot courts?

Studying at ILS Law College was an excellent experience for someone who thrives in an atmosphere wherein you are not given a map of how to go about grooming yourself as a budding lawyer; except for the compulsory lectures, one is absolutely free to pursue other diplomas/courses, peruse books and journals in one of the best law libraries in India, participate in advocacy competitions, get involved in organizational activities, articulate views for publication in law journals, contribute to academic discussions post lecture in various “cells”, work with a law firm or a counsel, or simply do nothing and enjoy the cold coffee at the ILS Canteen! It has been an inspiring and humbling experience being taught by some luminaries in their own subjects, interacting with and being guided by seniors who have achieved milestones in their careers, and studying along with some stellar students who are currently not only doing well in law, but other fields as well.

I primarily participated at intra-college and national moot courts and contributed to discussions at post-college “cells”. As a fresher and sophomore, I remember watching some brilliant seniors argue at moot courts and parliamentary debates – this sparked the keenness in me to participate in moot courts myself. Watching seniors argue at moot courts also helped me to not only understand the basics of fundamental laws like contract, torts and constitution but also gave me a chance to learn and imbibe in myself moot crafting skills such as presentation of facts, articulation of arguments, modulation of voice, rapport building with, and responding to, questions raised by the judges and rebutting contentions put forth by the opponent team.

How did you decide to pursue the CS course? In the long run, do you think that this degree gives one an edge over other law school graduates?

(During Malek’s second year at law school he started pursuing the Company Secretary (CS) course.)

Pursuing CS came as a natural decision due to my inclination towards finance as well as corporate law, coupled with the fact that I had time on hand after attending lectures. Having studied for and attempting CS examinations, I am of the opinion that apart from giving you a flavour of basic concepts in company law, securities law, banking-finance law and taxation law, the way the ICSI frames its exam papers is far more objective, and challenges your legal cognitive, as compared to mere rote-writing. The CS course helps one to understand the inter-play between different corporate laws, apart from teaching how to read and interpret basic company financials – a skill very useful for corporate lawyers who interact with Promoters, CFOs and GCs, conduct diligences and draft commercial agreements.

Do you believe ADR competitions are important, but are shadowed by the more popular moot courts in law schools? How do you think this could be changed?

(Malek has also extensively participated in negotiation and client counselling competitions, nationally and internationally, and thereafter even judged such competitions.)

There is no question of one advocacy activity “shadowing” the other. Moot courts and ADR related activities, I believe, are complimentary to each other in holistically grooming a budding law student. Most traditional law schools in India prefer the modus of teaching only by lecturing (rather an encouraging participative discussions or simulation learning), and that too on aspects necessary for examination purposes.

While lectures on CPC and CrPC, and sessions on moot courts, allow students to imbibe the skill of argumentation, cross-examining and drafting, it unfortunately does not hone the art of personal communication, explaining the law to laymen in simple terms, understanding and syncing the clients’ expectations with legal modalities, and devising commercially viable solutions. These skills, I believe are indispensable for any lawyer, be it a litigator or a transactional lawyer.

Most law students associate advocacy competitions as synonymous with moots courts and mock trials, perhaps because the number of negotiation or client counselling competitions that happen in India are far lesser in comparison to the number of moot courts. Law schools and law firms need to collaborate together and initiate more of such ADR related activities and competition. From my experience of founding the first ever negotiation competition at ILS Law College, I can say that the inputs of practicing lawyers or GCs (as compared to professors) to such activities/competitions is crucial for the quality of the activity/competition.

You interned primarily at corporate law firms. Where did this inclination towards corporate law start from?

John Grisham may have had a role to play! On a more serious note, I actually started my internships learning at places known for litigation. My first internship was with Hariani & Co, followed by the chambers of the then Attorney General, the late Mr. Goolam Vahanvati. Being in the second and third year of law school, more than learning the law or the procedure, it was through these litigation related experiences that I understood research methodologies, articulation of thought on paper i.e. how to draft legal notes/memos and documents management – skills which eventually helped during my corporate law internships. I believe as a law student, for the initial years at least, one must try everything and not wear blinkers concentrating on either just “litigation” or “corporate”.

My inclination towards corporate law was sparked when I participated at the NLIU Juris Corp Moot Court Competition which gave me a chance, while researching on the moot problem, to identify and understand certain transactional nuances in securities and competition law which ultimately led to a dispute in court. I must admit that certain facets of litigation, such as argument drafting and strategy, really interest me; I am grateful that so far in my career, along with corporate-transactional work, I have been getting to do some work focussed on the Securities Appellate Tribunal and appearances before the Securities and Exchange Board of India.

You experienced a vacation scheme at Clifford Chance. Was it different from Indian law firm internships?

The experience can be comparable to internships offered by certain Indian law firms. Global firms such as Clifford Chance have very structured work experience schemes, almost like a course by itself, which involves learning and development of the Schemer through work assignments, attending in-house lectures, insights into the workings of different teams handling different practice areas and networking opportunities with the professionals at the firm. Firms such as Clifford Chance are driven by a philosophy of investing in their lawyers, right from the time one begins a training contract with them.

I would encourage the readers, that given a choice between doing a LL.M and taking up a training contract, the latter should be considered hands down; there is no better teacher of practicing law than actual work experience, given the fact that law we read while studying is often very different from how it operates/is applied in the real world.

You have scored a remarkable 99/100 in the FICCI’s certification course on Competition Laws and IP Rights. How far do you think these certification courses help a law student?

Most traditional law schools often do not have specialized laws as part of their curriculum and are therefore not taught, at least as a core subject. Certification courses facilitate the learning of specialized laws, and are generally designed in such a manner, that it can be undertaken simultaneously while continuing your regular college activities. While there is a culture among law students of enrolling in parallel courses early on, it might make more sense to wait until the 4^th or 5^th year (or 3^rd year in case of a three-year program) to assess where exactly one’s inclination lies – this is possible after participating in advocacy competitions, doing internships or writing papers – avenues through which one can understand what it is like to “practice” the specialized law, and not merely “read” it. From a CV building point of view during law school, especially if you have applied to intern under a particular practice group, certification courses would be a plus.

Did you face difficulties in the beginning of your work at ELP? When did the transformation from a law student to a lawyer take place?

(After graduating from law school, Malek joined Economic Laws Practice (ELP) and worked there for over a year.)

It is only natural to feel challenged (not, “difficult”) when one moves from one life chapter to another viz. the academic chapter a.k.a “fun phase” to the professional a.k.a “real world phase”! That said, having interned previously at law firms and being a part of a great team headed by Mr. Suhail Nathani, made the transition for me as a student to a lawyer not only easy, but also memorable. Believe it or not, your perspective about practicing law is greatly impacted by your first job, team and senior.

Do you believe that drafting contracts, legal opinions and other legal documents is an essential skill that most law schools in India omit to teach their students?

I believe most law schools lay emphasis on teaching the principles of contract law as compared to actually teaching a student how to draft a contract. That said, law schools such as ILS Law College not only has a contract drafting competition but also has a subject on drafting which is taught by a renowned lawyer, Mr. Ajit Kulkarni – I still remember, his lectures were attended by non-ILS students as well as lawyers! Most traditional law schools, instead of asking students to take hand written notes of contract templates (which are otherwise available online), could consider equipping students with, and evaluating them on basic skills of drafting such as formatting, cross referencing and even proof-reading, and impart knowledge on aspects of stamp duty and registration – these are essential for drafting most contracts.

You are now an Associate at Shardul Amarchand Mangaldas, Mumbai. What is your work profile there? Could you share your experience at the firm so far?

A usual day for me at SAM involves team meetings, tending to client queries over phone call or email, preparation of memos/notes and drafting and reviewing of transaction related documents. We also advise on securities litigation matters, and as such, whenever required, we draft submissions to be made to the concerned authorities. Some transactions require me to work with other specialist teams in the firm, allowing me to benefit from their domain knowledge and experience. Besides encouraging regular interaction with the partners who have a plethora of experience and knowledge in their respective practice areas, the firm underscores the need for overall development of its lawyers and has implemented programs/policies where SAM lawyers share their opinions and experiences relating to a particular legislation and/or matter – this allows one to be up to date on contemporary legal developments and bake an opinion on certain contentious aspects – a must for any lawyer!

Do you think it is important for legal professionals and law students to make their presence felt online?

I believe, as will most people, that visibility is the key for growth in any profession. It would no doubt be helpful to reduce one’s time on social networking websites, and invest that time on professional networking websites such as LinkedIn.

How do you find the time to research and write legal articles? Could you share a few tips with our readers on how to go about legal writing?

Let me answer the question this way: I generally find time to write during early hours of the morning before work, or on a weekend, because writing helps me analyze cogently, organize logically, distil accurately, argue persuasively, cite knowledgeably, punctuate skilfully, and phrase smoothly, among other things. Some coveted blogs and forums also elicit the comments of experienced professionals and luminaries (either concurring or differing from the views expressed in the article) on the article, which is enlightening to read. I believe everyone has their own way of building their knowledge of the law and expressing their interpretation and application of it – legal writing is one such way which quite a few law graduates appear to adopt.

To the readers, I can share that, while writing, I tend to implement certain guidelines which appear in a publication of the American Bar Association: “…you must struggle to achieve simplicity—and learn to achieve it without oversimplifying. That’s a tall order in an intellectually challenging discipline like the law.

And it’s especially tall when you think of the overwhelming attraction that legalese presents to the average mind. With “pursuant to” and “assuming arguendo” and “hereinafter” and “inter alia”, you have ready-made shortcuts for feeling lawyerly. They’re like secret handshakes. They seem to make you a member of the club. Without them, you’ll feel like your pre–law-school self at a time when you may really want to feel a difference. Never mind that they typify low-grade legal writing.”

What is your message to young law students?

“Work until you no longer have to introduce yourself” is a mantra I endeavour to live by – try it!
November 20, 2015
Khusboo Khatreja, Associate, DSK Legal on LL.B after B.Com and work experience at a law firm
Khusboo Khatreja is a Bachelor in Commerce graduate from Kirorimal college, Delhi University. While in last year of her college, she was placed in Ernst and Young but due to interest in law, she decided to join Delhi University and completed her LL.B. She graduated in law in 2013.

She has been outstanding as a student and was mainly focused on academics. Being a commerce graduate, she was inclined towards corporate law and therefore pursued her internships accordingly. She also managed to pursue Company Secretary course along with law. Soon after graduation, she started working with DSK Legal, Delhi and her main practice area includes real estate and general corporate law.

In this interview, she talks about:
- LL.B from CLC after B.Com from Kirorimal
- First year of work at DSK Legal, Delhi
- Managing deadlines and experience of a steep learning curve
Given that most of our readers belong to legal fraternity, how would you introduce yourself to them?

Hi!! I’m Khushboo Khatreja. A 25 years ‘young’ lawyer, who is endeavouring to perceive this dynamic legal profession. I am currently associated with Delhi office of DSK Legal as an Associate. I graduated from Faculty of Law, Delhi University in 2013 and joined DSK Legal right after completing my professional degree. It has been a great experience so far under the guidance of Mr. Niraj Kumar.

During this short tenure, I have had a chance to work on various exciting assignments and representing some big clients. DSK gives you ample opportunities to handle the assignments in a manner which backs your personal growth and development.

At this stage, I look towards learning new things, shaping my knowledge and to expand my horizon. Presently, I am handling assignments related to corporate advisory and real estate. My aim is to keep exploring at this level, and have a specialization after certain level of practice.

Having done B.Com, what motivated you to choose law as a career? Or did it just happen?

Frankly, I feel this statement is true. I was determined to pursue B.com (Hons.) but that is not the case with LL.B. Choosing law as a career option was not pre planned at all. I got a placement in Ernst and Young during the last year of my graduation. But pursuing LL.B was on my cards, and during that placement period, my cousin motivated me to explore options in legal field. I gave it a thought and tried my luck in Delhi University’s LL.B entrance examination. So, the credit goes to my cousin! And I have no regrets.

As a graduate of Delhi University, have you faced any comparison with NLUs? What would you say to the future graduates of DU regarding this?

I have heard people giving statements on this ‘inclination towards NLU grads’. Fortunately, I have not experienced such thing. Delhi University was, is still is and will remain the premier institution when it comes to legal studies. What matters is your knowledge and determination and everything else becomes drab should you have these standards. I owe a lot to Delhi University, be it Kirorimal College or Faculty of Law, for who I am today.

What were your areas of interest during your graduation? How did you go about developing expertise and knowledge in these areas?

Being a commerce graduate, my area of interest has always been corporate laws. To explore and have in-depth understanding of corporate laws, I pursued Company Secretary Course as well. It really was beneficial to understand corporate and allied laws theoretically as well as practically through this. I have to accept that I was a reserved student. I had a limited approach towards my legal studies. I was much occupied during my course on account of handling my CS studies as well.

What kind of internships did you do while you were a student?

I interned at Khaitan, Sud and Partners, ASA Law Firm and Jindal Steel and Power Limited. At KSP, I worked on matters related to project finance, at ASA, I had a chance to understand corporate debt restructuring mechanism and at Jindal, it was more of drafting and understanding the complexities involved in various commercial agreements (domestic as well as international). As one can see, I have had a diversified experience in my internships. At that stage, I wanted to explore different fields and I was fortunate that I got to work with the aforementioned entities. Further, I was determined to work on corporate side for reasons explained earlier and thus, no litigation experience is on my plate.

What are your thoughts on activities like mooting, debating and publications in journals? What skills do law students acquire by engaging themselves in such activities?

They play a double fold role in a law student’s life. Apart from brushing your confidence and knowledge, they provide add on to your CV. One improves his/her drafting and soft skills by engaging into these activities. At a start-up level, they do play a vital role. Many firms place importance in these activities while selecting a candidate.

Did your law school education prepare you sufficiently for the many tasks you were required to execute after graduation?

Yes of course. Delhi University gives you practical exposure to a particular issue. The curriculum is totally based on precedents. It helps you to understand the real issue at your work place or internships, as the case may be. The theoretical aspect to a particular topic is limited. It’s more of case based studies.

Many lawyers say that the first year after graduation is the most difficult one. What was your case?

This indeed is true. At this level you are now all alone striving for an opportunity and yes, the expectations are too high at this stage..!!.During my last semester itself, I started looking for placement. The biggest challenge was not having someone who could guide me. Being the only lawyer in my family, I had to do everything on my own and I had no contacts. With the help of friends and understanding the process, things became clear with time. I feel that in this field contacts can get you anywhere. You can expect a call for an interview at least..!!

You started your career at DSK Legal, New Delhi and currently work as an Associate there. What had contributed towards this appointment?

One of my senior told me about this opportunity and I did not let it escape.Otherwise, one can approach DSK by submitting his/her CV at our website www.dsklegal.com. Depending on the candidate’s profile and DSK’s requirement, DSK approaches the candidate.

What are the main practice areas of Delhi office of DSK Legal? What does your current work profile at DSK consists of? How is a typical workday like?

We have two partners in Delhi office. One handles litigation and other handles real estate and general corporate practice. My current profile consists of real estate and general corporate practice. It’s a blessing to work at DSK when it comes to ‘work-life’ balance. I start at 9.30 setting out the deliverables of the day first. Work life is pretty comfortable here as my seniors and partner are only concerned with the quality and time line of a deliverable. How I do it, that’s completely my look out.

Are there new challenges everyday or has work settled into a predictable pattern?

When you are working in a law firm, forget about anything which is predictable. There are new challenges every day which you face and which helps you to grow as a lawyer. No issue is related with each other. Every client has a different issue and their requirement as well as expectations from a lawyer is different. What I find more interesting is presentation and interpretation of law in such a manner which addresses the client’s issue and requirements. It’s a thinking process at all times.

Can you tell us about a few of the most challenging problems you have faced thus far?

When you enter into the job world in this profession, every day is challenging. Beginning was not easy for me as well. Everyday used to be challenging and hectic. And then there comes a transaction for which you are solely responsible and which is your ‘Baptism by Fire’. After initial 3-4 months of joining DSK, I was given to handle a funding transaction on my own and that’s where I felt that it’s not easy to survive in this profession. That is one transaction which still is a nightmare for me.

How do you deal with mistakes or errors?

We follow basic professional code of conduct at our workplace. There is no special requirement as such, but yes, there is no compromise on what is expected from you as a professional. Nobody is perfect and mistakes are bound to happen. What matters is how you deal with it and learn from it. I follow the same path. However, mistakes on basic aspects are not acceptable.

Would you say your undergraduate B.Com degree has been helpful in your career?

It truly was. It’s so easy to read financial documents and to have an idea about true position of a company while conducting due diligence for a particular transactions. In DU, we have contract law and taxation in our curriculum which provided a base to study these subjects and understand it in a more efficient manner for my law degree.

What kind of internship/recruitment application do you think stands out positively and has a much higher likelihood of being accepted?

Applications which are short yet expressive are the ones any recruiter would love to read. A good professional resume without any bragging ingredient in it acts as a deal maker. Keep applications short and simple. Take it not as a comprehensive list of your career history but as a marketing document selling you as the perfect person for the job.

Would you say that the actual learning takes place in the years of practice? What was the case in your situation?

This statement is somewhere true. For a practicing professional each assignment is a learning experience. While pursuing a law degree, a student has a limited approach i.e. understanding the legal issue. But at a practicing stage, what should be the approach towards such issue in a cost and time efficient manner is a primary focus. Same is the case with me. My approach towards an issue has changed altogether after entering into what you call a ‘Real World’.

Where do you see yourself ten years down the line? Do you aspire to be like somebody from this field?

In 10 years’ time, I see myself at a good position, progressing in legal field and earning new skills to the benefit of my clients. I do not aspire to be like somebody, I would like to be ‘ME’.

Lastly, what would be your parting message for our readers?

Pursue your dreams and don’t be afraid of failures. Failures are good experiences which help you in long run. People succeed because they failed in their life at some point of time. Keep going is the myntra!!
June 20, 2015
Mrinali Kaul, Associate at Talwar Thakore, on the Company Secretary course, grades, internships and an ideal law school life
Mrinali Kaul graduated from ILS Law College, Pune in 2012. She is a qualified Company Secretary and has an enviable academic record and an excellent series of internships at top law firms. As a law student she has been quite active and participated in many debates, MUNs and conferences. By the time she graduated, she had received a job offer from Talwar Thakore & Associates and is currently working there as an Associate.

We have taken this opportunity to ask her about the several decisive moments in her career amongst other things including:
- Importance of internships and maintaining grades
- Importance of extra-curricular activities in law school
- Completing the Company Secretary course alongside law studied
- Work at TT&A
When did you think you were suited to a career in law? How did you get through to ILS?

Pursuing a career in the legal field was always at the back of my mind whenever I used to read novels written by Jeffrey Archer and John Grisham. The fact that top-notch orators and politicians in the country were lawyers by qualification added to the charm of being a part of this respected profession. Being a lawyer was also listed as one of my possible career choices through an aptitude test that had been conducted in my school, DPS Greater Noida. I made the final decision to take up law and become a first generation lawyer quite late in the day i.e., after giving my class 12^th board exams. According to me, the pre-requisites for a career in law are that one should have a good command over the English language, ability to reason, self-confidence and be able to put forth one’s views in a coherent manner. I believed that I possessed the necessary skillset to be a successful lawyer and therefore chose law as my calling.

ILS admits students based on their class 12^th marks and an interview thereafter. As I had a reasonably good score of 94% in class 12^th, I was able to join ILS for the five year law course.

Which subjects did you enjoy during your qualifying degree?

[sociallocker]The subject which I enjoyed most was company law and this paved the way for a career in corporate law. Company law is like the Holy Bible for those planning to join a corporate law firm and it is essential to be well-versed with it. What I liked about this subject was the logical manner in which it can be understood and one can draw references from the corporate world for understanding any concept. The linkage to the corporate world made it a really interesting subject to grasp and understand.

Did you ever indulge in academic legal writing? What, in your opinion, are the advantages of taking part in such activities?

Yes, I did indulge in legal writing and the articles were published in my college journal as well as in relation to the Company Secretary course. I also represented my college in moot court competitions and quiz competitions in the various law festivals held in different colleges. I have also attended conferences individually and presented my papers there. Such events are an integral part of a law student’s life as they help you to go beyond academics and also shape your personality for the future. Often one ends up forging lifelong friendships and making useful contacts at these inter-college events. Therefore, I would definitely recommend everyone to take part in one or the other event at least once in their law school life. I do not think making it mandatory serves the purpose as then students would merely do it to fetch marks and the intention to do something on your own initiative will be lost. Law schools should not spoon-feed the students and it should be left at the discretion of the students to choose whether to pursue such activities or not.

During graduation, you interned with top-notch law firms. Are there remarkable experiences during your internships that shaped your career choices later?

My internship choices were primarily guided by my inclination to work in a corporate law firm upon graduation and therefore, I wanted to gain as much exposure as possible by interning in the top law firms in the country. During internships, I was mostly allotted research work relating to company law, securities and banking law. I have also been involved in due diligence exercises being undertaken at these firms and preparing memos on various legal issues. These internships made me realize that corporate law is really an all-encompassing term and there is a lot for me to learn in this field. Therefore, I wanted to join a corporate law firm after graduation to be able to realise my potential in this field.

Would you say a great CGPA is a necessity to kick start a good career in the legal profession?

Definitely, a great CGPA opens doors for you to bag the best internships- be it with law firms, senior counsels or even companies. It is a crucial factor during recruitments as most organisations have certain minimum CGPA requirements which one needs to satisfy to be eligible to even apply for a position as an Associate. However, having said this, marks are not the only determining factor in the long run and it is your knowledge and its application that counts ultimately.

You had also managed to pursue the company secretary course. Tell us why did you chose to do it and how did you manage it with college?

The course in ILS is structured in such a manner that it leaves you with ample time to pursue other courses, hobbies, activities, etc and pursuing two courses simultaneously was not really a difficult task. If you’re smart and efficient about your studies and prioritise well, it is quite a cakewalk. As I had joined law school with the intention of joining a corporate law firm upon graduation, I wanted to acquire any knowledge which would help me in the professional world and this is where the company secretary course came into the picture with its offering of an integrated approach to multi-disciplinary subjects such as law, business, finance, economics and accounts. Coming from a science background in school, I found this course to give me an edge over my peers as it covered newer areas of law such as competition, securities markets. These subjects were not taught as part of our curriculum in law school; hence this additional knowledge placed me ahead of my batch mates and also helped me in securing my job.

Does graduating from a prestigious school make a difference in landing a good job in this field?

Yes, to a certain extent in the initial years, graduating from a prestigious law school does have its benefits in the recruitment scenario. However, having said that, if you’re intelligent, hardworking and smart, there’s no reason that you should be denied an opportunity irrespective of the law school you have graduated from.

Soon after graduation, you joined Talwar Thakore and Associate as an Associate. How did your appointment take place? How was your interview? Please give our readers some tips to nail a law firm interview.

My appointment at TT&A happened through the placement committee of my college. The selection process was two-fold: the first step involved sending my resume and an application form which covered questions relating to my skills and achievements, reasons for becoming a corporate lawyer and wanting to join the firm, etc. Subsequently, the shortlisted candidates were called for a personal interview to the firm’s office in Mumbai. The interview was very relaxed and I was asked to talk about myself and questioned based on my resume. I was also given a case-study based on which my critical and reasoning skills were tested and two days later, I was given the good news that I had been chosen to join the firm.

This was the only interview that I gave and cracked, so here are the tips from my limited interview experience:
- Be thorough with your resume and know it like the back of your hand;
- Research on your prospective employer firm;
- Stay calm;
- Maintain eye contact with all your interviewers;
- Be properly dressed; and
- Put your cell phone in silent mode.
How tough was the first year of law firm?

Working in a law firm as an associate is a completely different ball game from interning in one. You have to be responsible and take complete ownership of your work product. Fortunately, at TT&A, we have a very healthy working environment and all the partners and senior lawyers are very encouraging and helpful and make sure that you blend in very easily with everyone and feel at home in the firm. Honestly, I did not find the first year tough. Certainly, it involved a lot of learning as what we are taught at law school is purely theoretical. But I can safely say that with the amazing work culture at TT&A, I sailed through it like a breeze!

Tell us about the nature of work you’re entrusted with therein and what’s a typical day like? What is the most challenging aspect of your job?

At TT&A, in the initial stage of our career, we are not compartmentalized in different sectors like corporate, banking, capital markets but are allowed to work on a wide range of transactions across all practice areas that the firm has to offer. This allows us to gain exposure to a variety of legal issues across multi-disciplinary jurisdictions and decide on our specialization thereafter. I have been involved in due-diligences, drafting of transaction documents in corporate and banking transactions, preparing research memorandums and notes.
A typical day involves researching on contentious issues, drafting transaction related documents, discussions with senior colleagues and responding to client queries by email or over calls with them. The most challenging aspect of my job has to be beating the deadlines and making sure the work product meets the clients’ expectations. My work doesn’t involve litigation and taxation at all.

Does your qualification in law and company secretary complement each other in terms of your work?

Definitely, the company secretary curriculum is such that it equips you with not only legal knowledge required in the corporate world but also the business and the financial angle of a transaction. This inter-disciplinary knowledge comes very handy during transactions as it helps you to understand the bigger picture and not merely the legal issues involved.

Where do you see your career going from here?

I aim to grow with my firm and get more experience while working on the transactions, be it in corporate, capital markets or the banking sector. I am still at a nascent stage of my career and it is important for me to absorb and gain as much knowledge as possible to build upon it later.

What would be your parting message to law students who want to be successful in corporate law?

Be focussed, work hard and enjoy life!

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January 6, 2015
Arpita Majumdar, Law Graduate, on preparing for CS and being AIR 13
Arpita Majumdar is currently a student of Bangalore Institute of Legal Studies (BILS) and shall graduate in 2015. She has secured All India Executive Rank 13 in Company Secretary Course and has interned at top notch firms.

She tells us about:
- Preparation for CS exam and bagging AIR 13
- Coaching Institutes and CS
- Importance of Internships
How would you like to introduce yourself to our readers?

I am a fifth year law student from Bangalore Institute of Legal Studies and a potential Company Secretary. I was born and brought up in the vibrant city of Indore in Madhya Pradesh and completed my schooling from St. Raphael’s Girls School, Indore. Having been nurtured in a Convent School, I was inducted into public speaking quite early in my school life. Fortunately, it has continued to remain a passion ever since.

What motivated you to choose law as a career?

Although I hail from a family that has seen a generation of Engineers, fortunately I was encouraged to pursue a career of my choice. However, given the lack of awareness about varied avenues available to a law graduate, my peers were skeptical of my decision. Also, I believe that there is a peculiar dogma and a certain amount of disrespect associated with the legal profession in the smaller towns.

My first encounter with the legal regime was as a National Service Scheme (NSS) volunteer whereby, we undertook a project for the education of female inmates in Jails. This tryst with the justice mechanism motivated me to pursue a profession that infused a feeling of empowerment in an individual. Although, I must admit that initially I was perplexed between journalism and law; eventually the decision to opt for the latter came quite later in time.

As a law student which activities did you participate in?

Well, I believe everybody should invest considerable time and effort in exploring diverse opportunities that law school has to offer. It provides the requisite perspective to make an informed decision regarding your preferred area of practice.

I have always tried to maintain an effective balance between academics and other activities. Along with, a consistent endeavour to maintain good scores throughout law school (as clichéd as it may be); I also, play Chess and have represented my College at “Spiritus” –the Sport’s Fest organised by NLSIU, Bangalore. I have also been a member of an Expert Panel Study on Access to Healthcare in India by IIM-Bangalore and University of St. Gallen, Sweden.

Mooting has been another formidable part of my law school life. In fact, in my very first year I represented my institution in the Amity University Constitutional Law Moot; in which we were the semi-finalists. I have also, participated in NLIU Juris Corp, NLS Arbitration Moot and Surana&Surana Corporate Moot. However, it was eventually, the Nani Palkhivala Tax Moot Court Competition that had the effect of framing the course of my future endeavours and hence, the greater emphasis on CS Course.

I was privileged to have few very proficient seniors who guided me through every effort of mine at law school, ranging from academics to moot courts, internships, etc. In all fairness, although, institutional guidance was very limited; I am particularly grateful to our Moot Court, Faculty-in-Charge for providing the desired opportunities.

What kind of work did you have to do during your internship at AZB Partners and Nishith Desai Associates?

The nature of work varies according to the place and the team allotted. At Nishith Desai Associates, I was assigned a Mentor and highlight of that internship was the fact that interns could work with all the offices and were not confined to the location office. At AZB there are no watertight compartments so I was not assigned to a particular team, as such. Also the work environment is extremely interactive and you tend to get feedbacks which help you to improve. Through the course of my law firm internships, I was allotted research works, reviewing contracts and drafting opinions.

How was your experience interning with Senior Advocates?

My litigation internships have been under Senior Advocates, Mr. Soli E. Dastur and Mr. Arvind P. Datar, both eminent Supreme Court counsels and renowned tax jurists. Both the internships were very rewarding in terms of, the quality of interaction with Mr. Dastur and Mr. Datar and the quality of work that I was assigned. In fact, during Mr. Datar’s internship I worked as a Student Editor on his upcoming revised edition of the Constitution of India. Also, having observed them argue in Court, it gave me an intricate understanding of the critical nuances of law practice and the art of Court craft.

While at a law firm the work is primarily based on research for client advisory or proposed transactions; a litigation internship offers more diverse research experiences. At the same time, it offers you great insights into the judicial mind based on the Judges response to a well-researched argument to which you may have contributed substantially. I personally, enjoyed the respective challenges offered at a law firm and under a lawyer; although, with an inclination for the former.

Did you pursue your internships throughout law school as part of a deliberate plan or did it all just happen by chance?

In my opinion, internships are an outcome of the initiatives you are willing to take in furtherance of your career. So when I say initiatives, it would be fair to state that it was well planned; although, the execution required considerable effort. Given that I had identified my area of interest fairly early at law school I was determined to intern with the best law firms / lawyers in the area. Being from a non-NLU, internships are not as forthcoming as one would expect. Therefore, one has to pursue it relentlessly and with a great deal of vigour. In most cases, a well-structured application with a comprehensive CV and thereafter, periodic follow ups fructified into a positive response.

Personally, I believe in any profession academic scores do not validate one’s practical knowledge. The University curriculum fails to invigorate any innovation or analytical reasoning – attributes that I found to be quintessential during my internships. Therefore, an active engagement in Moot Courts, internships, research papers, conferences, etc. are indispensable to acquire practical knowledge of the discipline. Thus, there needs to be personal interest to research deeper into the subject and not merely cater to the requirements of routine examinations by reading a few prescribed books.

What does your CS score card read?

(Arpita has secured All India Executive Rank 13 and South Zone Rank 1 in the Company Secretary (CS) examination.)

To be honest, I was expecting good scores but not a Rank as such. So when I checked my results I was fairly satisfied with my scores and frankly, I did not even glance at the merit list. It was only later in the evening that I was informed by a friend that I had secured the 13th Rank. I was pretty thrilled actually although, it took quite some time to sink in.

When and what inspired you to pursue CS course?

Pursuing CS was largely driven by my proclivity for Corporate and Taxation Law. Moreover, since Taxation is taught in the last semester, I wanted to learn the subject in advance.

I have been very impressed with the course curriculum particularly, because of the way it is structured. The practical insights that the course offers and the examination pattern that seeks to test the same are largely, based on one’s knowledge of the subject and not merely memory. I would personally, recommend it for students with an inclination towards Corporate, Securities and Taxation Laws, especially, those belonging to State Universities where such areas are not adequately dealt with. I believe in such cases, it serves to give you an edge over your peers.

How did you remember the sections of the Acts in your syllabus and leading case laws on varied areas of law?

Though CS is an extremely concept based course, this particular aspect is not very different from preparing for law papers in LL.B. curriculum. However, it demands more detailed attention to the fundamentals of a concept. I particularly, do not think one is expected to remember every case law and sections that you come across during the course of your preparations. Having said that, certain significant judgments involving intriguing questions of law and relevant sections that test one’s reasoning ability ought to be remembered. This may not require much of an effort if you have done a thorough reading of the subject coupled with an interest in the same.

How did you prepare for the exams?

My semester examinations were scheduled around the same time as the CS Examinations, so I was particularly constrained for time. But I am personally of the opinion that with satisfactory time management it is fairly easy for a law student to crack CS Examinations. Securing a rank may require a little more effort. I had put in about a months’ preparation; however, it was only possible because most of the subjects were covered earlier in the LL.B. Curriculum.

CS Course material is more than sufficient for preparations for examination purposes; the only exception being Taxation and Accountancy. Additional materials are available in the form of Guides (usually referred as “Scanners” in CS parlance) – which is basically a Question-Answer Summary Guide of past years Question Papers. It is advisable to refer Taxmann Student’s Guide and V.K. Singhania’s book for practical problems pertaining to Taxation laws and Shukla & Grawal – considered the ‘Bible of Accountancy’. I have been fortunate to have some CA friends who have helped me greatly in this aspect.

How would you say a student can go about studying and having distinction in CS subjects?

I strongly opine that each individual has their own study methods. In some cases, it may be studying for long hours while, others may have a preference for short study hours. My study method was modulated around the latter. I base my study on thorough reading and preparation of short points on every topic. On the eve of the examinations, I studied from these notes because there are no breaks between CS papers and it is quite impossible to revise the entire syllabus within such a short span of time. Also, unlike the Law examinations administered at my University, one cannot afford to engage in selective study; in that case, the idea of merely passing the examination may also, appear far-fetched. As such, time management is undoubtedly a pre-requisite.

Did you take any guidance for preparation?

Initially, when I started my preparations for Executive Examinations I attended a Coaching Institute which proclaims to be the best in South India. Unfortunately, it took little time to comprehend the falsity of such proclamations.

Personally, I do not advocate Coaching Institutes. They not only hamper self-study but at times derail your preparation by misguiding you. Moreover, pursuing Law and CS at the same time, sufficiently eases the burden of Law subjects and nullifies the requirement of a CS Coaching Institute per se. Practical subjects like Accountancy and Taxation may pose a handicap, for which a decent Coaching Class which satisfactorily addresses the concepts involved in these subjects shall suffice.

Any dos and don’ts you would like to share with the future CS aspirants?

It is fairly simple the way I perceive it. I have been advised against CS on the pretext that there is sufficient overlap between the two courses. I strongly beg to differ on this. At the cost of repetition, I say it once again, it gives you a wider practical perspective; and in any case, knowledge never harms, does it!

Frankly, if you are not dedicated enough to pursue it all the way thorough kindly do not take it up in the first place. It is tiresome and entails considerable financial and time investment.

Do you think that being from a non-NLU made any difference?

Actually, it is not the opportunities per se that are limited; but the awareness about such opportunities that is found to be deficient. In any law school, your peers have a cardinal influence in generating such awareness which shapes your career decisions. This particular aspect is woefully scarce in certain non-NLU institutions. As such, being amidst the right kind of peer group largely determines one’s success in law school. However, the relaxed institutional framework provided me the time to pursue CS, in particular. And as a matter of fact, every coin has two sides!

What are your plans after graduating?

To be honest, I am not too inclined towards pursuing a career as a full time Company Secretary. I am studying to be a Lawyer, and that is what I would like to be. As of now, I plan to join a law firm where my credentials as a Lawyer and a CS would be adequately employed, preferably one having taxation as its core competence.

Lastly, what would be your message to our readers and to the future CS aspirants?

Stay focused, fight for what you believe in and pursue your goals with a great deal of determination.
September 12, 2014