Disclaimer- The views and opinions expressed in this Q-A discussion are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of the company they work for.
Would you like to tell our audience about what motivated you to choose law as a career?
For me becoming a lawyer meant learning about negotiation and people management, two of the really important skills to succeed in life.
Nishant, we all have our struggle stories to share, and I mean not struggle specifically but yeah the obstacles that one has to overcome, would you mind throwing light upon those?
One obstacle rather a challenging situation that I faced in my last role as an in-house counsel in the current company was leading a global project that involved folks mostly from medical background basically non-lawyers and this was difficult because we all were responsible to ensure that research trials continue without any hiccups due to this transition.
I had to make a lot of effort to understand the science behind trials , identify relevant stakeholders and also define a governance process without undermining my counterparts from medical team. This experience gave me lot of confidence to not only design & lead projects of global significance but also work across divisions and functions to achieve success.
These compliance processes have been there since a long time, but a sudden increase was noticed post-covid, what do you think can be the reasons for it?
COVID 19 created frankly a perfect storm of economic pressure and operational disruption…hackers infiltrating your network or attack against corporate data science or not using IT assets for its intended purpose/ cutting & pasting data from one application to another! In other words, pandemic created new risks that business might not have had to worry about before and impact is to an extent that these risks now exceed whatever controls you previously used.
Today the need of the hour is develop a sustainable compliance framework- one that can track/measure new risks and in parallel test and document controls as necessary, and guide remediation efforts. Most importantly, business should make proactive efforts to integrate compliance into operations because many times business change their approach/strategy without involving compliance and this means existing internal controls no longer fit their original purpose.
In post COVID 19 world this thought process is needed to stay ahead of competitors and ensuring compliance with policies.
People say in-house counsel should also have a business acumen, maybe if we can call them an “All Rounder” here, what are your views on the same Nishant?
We live in world that requires us to embrace and plan for change. Same goes for in-house counsel. The common perception was ‘legal is reactive and not proactive’. But now what I see is with time its the legal function that often bears the maximum burden of changes that companies go through…all this while coping with constant demands for greater efficiency/productivity and cost savings.
The role of the in-house lawyer has evolved into new areas such as Govt. Affairs, Audit and Compliance reporting, CSR etc… this is more than just a change of job title, it’s an acknowledgment that your in-house counsel is part of C-suite. This also conveys the strategic nature of legal function and the contribution it makes to company’s growth.
Nishant, do you think India has been following up sincerely with the GDPR regulations/privacy protocols or like me you are also of a view that it was violated during the covid times?
Data is the new currency and it only makes sense for companies to invest in protecting their data. India in my view seems to be on right track as outlook towards privacy has changed considerably in privacy space and this is largely because of a collaborative approach by govt and private companies. However to continue with this momentum we need to invest heavily in technology and associated controls to meet privacy requirements faster.
Not everyone has the ability to navigate through different regulations, but you do that so well, what are the strategies for the same that you apply constantly in your routine?
Stay informed, attend online events to keep a tab regarding changes in regulations. Some online/in person conferences can really provide useful insights. Subscribe to blogs and newsletters. Join industry associations, its a great way to stay connected with changes in your field.
How do you maintain the work-life balance Nishant?
I actually like to term it as work-life integration because this will bring several aspects of work life such as work, family, well-being under same roof. I can choose to manage personal tasks during work hours and vice Versa. The biggest plus I see with this approach is flexibility eg. allowing me coordinate my schedule and responsibilities more productively.
Let tips in my experience:
a) Learn to say no- very important part of setting boundaries
b) ask for flexibility- open conversation about your needs vs. your employer/team needs can lead to win-win scenario
c) make space in your schedule for family time
d) always remember your work and managers can wait but your friends/family and personal milestones will not.
Nishant, being a mentor yourself, please give a few pieces of advice for our readers?
Mentorship does not have to be a formal process but in our field it’s a crucial form of support for budding lawyers/law school students. Its important to recognise that a mentee places a lot of trust so a mentor should take out time of their schedule to help mentee develop and grow. But its equally important that mentee also assumes responsibility for learning because a mentor can only give you tools and guidance.
Lastly recognize that the mentor maybe phenomenal but will have a limit to the knowledge and abilities, its important to not get upset or disappointed because your mentor cannot answer all questions but make the most of their time and knowledge in areas where they can.
Was pursuing law planned or did it all happen by chance?
It was anything but planned. To start with, I wanted to be a doctor but couldn’t afford coaching. Then I was drawn to psychology and it was fascinating. However, the fate had something else for me. After my graduation, I decided to sit for the law entrance of Delhi University. To my own surprise, I got a very good rank. I thought I must give it a try. First day in Law Faculty was the day of my liberation. And the rest is history.
What can be some of the toughest considerations while someone from a non-legal background has to see before opting law as a career?
Response: It can be quite tough for a person from a non-legal background. Firstly, law as a subject is highly demanding. Without the right guidance and mentorship, one is bound to lose the way. However before making any career decision, one must always ask why.
What I have always advised my juniors and followed myself is, listen to your heart and follow your passion. With the passion in place, you can overcome any and all challenges.
Another tough choice that one would face is where to start and where do I eventually want to end up. These questions don’t have an easy answer. Law is very vast, it sometimes takes years to finally find something that resonates with your disposition. Patience and persistence are the two mantras one should live by. In due time, you will find your niche.
As someone who is well versed in arbitration matters, what initiated you into arbitration? What currently are the emerging trends in arbitration?
Even specialising in arbitration was not planned. I got a chance to work on an arbitration matter at JusContractus. The dispute was intricate but interesting. We faced a challenge on interpretation of s.27 of the Arbitration Act, which deals in seeking court’s assistance in taking evidence. A lot of research and brainstorming went into that and that’s how my love affair with arbitration began.
Coming to emerging trends in arbitration. The law in arbitration often has been subjected to many amendments. Essentially, an arbitration is a dispute resolution mechanism, alternate to litigation.
The parties have autonomy to choose their arbitrator and opt for expeditious disposal of the dispute. The goal is to minimize judicial intervention. The courts have been circumspect in dealing with challenges to arbitral awards, tilt has been towards upholding the award than setting it aside.
Further, recently it was stated by Justice Hima Kohli, Hon’ble Judge, Supreme Court of India, at a book launch that, we have to ensure that arbitration should not become another litigation. There is a growing realization that arbitration must be simplified and be made effective through robust enforcement strategies.
Quite often, we have seen the importance of ‘Legal Content and editing’ undervalued, what’s your take on the same?
Response: On the contrary, I find legal journalism extremely useful and respectable. It combines the skills set of two public oriented professions. It requires attention to detail and fact-check of all dates and citations, in-depth legal research and great interpersonal skills. Legal content writing essentially constitutes a bridge between law and layman. In my personal experience, legal writing brings a ton of clarity to the thought process and helps to put a proposition in a simplified manner to get the point across, something every lawyer ought to master.
Nowadays, people don’t have that zeal to pursue a career in litigation, what can be the reason for that apart from job security in corporate?
Response: Litigation is like literature. One has to keep at it for a long time till you find your place in it. What I see is that in a fast paced world, there is enormous pressure on law graduates to find a lucrative placement right after college. Litigation, on the contrary, needs time and investment. Unless, you have a legal background, it takes lot of faith and perseverance to stick out.
Corporate, on the other hand, can give you quick returns. Nevertheless, one needs to be well-versed in law in both cases, to be successful. Again, at the cost of reiteration, I must sound a word of caution that one must not be swayed by the glamour of the litigation, must follow his/her instincts and passion, as there are other creative vocations in law as well that one must explore.
“Best Young Achiever” award by itself sounds so special, would you mind sharing your experience and some roadmap you followed or what worked best for you so far in your career?
It was truly special. I received the award from Late Mr. Soli Sorabjee and was in complete awe of him. Honestly, I had never imagined receiving an award for my work in arbitration. But it feels nice to be recognised. One mantra that I have followed and have brought me immense satisfaction is that whatever you do, do it to the best of your capabilities. You never know what might get attention.
So many times we have seen contractual disputes because of a minor mistake, what can be done to improve the situation and erase the disputes?
That’s a very good question. Often I have seen in my experience that the parties do not pay adequate attention to contract drafting and structuring. In such cases, where the contracts are undermined and the understanding assumed by the parties, without having the same incorporated in the contract, there are bound to be disputes. All contracts look just fine until they are tested in real time. The most important is the dispute resolution clause, which needs to be carefully drafted.
Sometimes, parties in order to save costs on legal advice, often end up being embroiled in more expensive legal battles. Therefore, it is imperative that parties should seek sound legal guidance on contract drafting before signing an agreement.
Talking about work-life balance, there has been ample amount of discussion on health issues as a lawyer, what do you believe are the best practices to maintain the equilibrium?
Response: Law as a profession can be quite ruthless at times. Late night research and drafting, running from one court to another and not to forget, endlessly waiting for your matter in court. These occasions can throw your health for a toss. As the greatest asset of a lawyer is his/her mind, it is all the more essential to maintain a healthy equilibrium and to keep his/her mind and body in good shape. Daily workouts, meditation, yoga, adopting healthy eating habits are some of the lifestyle changes one can include.
Few advice for our young law professionals?
I see legal profession as an intellectual’s delight. It is one of the most respectable professions. Becoming a lawyer is matter of prestige. It is to each one of you what you want to make of it. Don’t go by convention, go where your interest takes you.
Do not be afraid of making mistakes, you want to have your stories of struggles to tell the younger generation. And not to forget, knowledge is power. Never stop learning and developing on your skills set. Believe in yourself and put the black suit on.
What motivated you to choose law and how do you see the competition since the time you started pursuing your career?
I remember back in high school, my dad asked me to pick a career path. I didn’t know what it’d be at that time but I wanted something that’d combine both my passions, strategy & public speaking. When I did pick law, it wasn’t so much for altruistic reasons as wanting to do something intellectually stimulating, that I’d really enjoy.
I don’t believe you truly discover an industry until you’re neck deep in it. Popular media would have you believe law’s all sunshine & rainbows but there’s just as much trudging through the trenches before you get to the meadows.
To that end, it’s highly competitive. Wanting out of the rat race means deeply honing your craft, developing highly effective & transferable
skills & often, specialising in a single niche. If you’re able to do that & enjoy it, the competition becomes healthy & the profession rewarding!
There was a time Ananya when we had no advancements in terms of tech tools for legal projects, now it has changed, what are your views on the same?
I have to be honest, I was blessed enough to enter the profession when indexing apps & research softwares were a thing & I’m all the more thankful for it.
There’s a lot to be said about legal tech. In a number of ways, it’s revolutionised the way we get things done, more so in this era of remote work. The automation & efficiency has led to increased client satisfaction which lends itself to greater profitability & wider market reach.
However, we’re talking about tools at the end of the day. A sword is only as good as the man who wields it. It’s how lawyers leverage the tech available to them that ultimately determines their true utility.
Ananya, our audience wants to know what are the advantages and disadvantages for a Non-Nlu Student?
Ah the self-limiting titles we impose upon ourselves! I always had my sights set on the NLUs. Everyone I spoke to, everything I read, had led me to believe that was the only way to go. So when due to a rough period in my life, I couldn’t go to one, despite qualifying for one of the best NLUs in the country, I felt lost.
For a huge chunk of time, I struggled with a strange sort of handicapping disappointment. The thought of graduating from a lesser known university can undermine your confidence. But knowing what I do now, I wouldn’t get too hung up on the stigma.
The only merit NLUs have over non-NLUs is the launchpad they provide to your career in terms of perceived value & the opportunity to network with other budding lawyers & professors who perhaps share the same amount of passion as you. Beyond that it’s really each man to his own.
The advantage of being a non-NLU graduate is it forces you out of your comfort zone. You’re not spoon-fed the best resources. You empower yourself, through observation & error. You go beyond the bare minimum, adding more job-ready skills & achievements to your repertoire. It teaches you to become more enterprising. It’s a long winded journey but the hard work pays off multifold eventually.
Do you think Ananya that these new aspects such as NFT’s, Blockchain etc violate the standards of privacy and secrecy?
Privacy legislations, from their inception, weren’t drafted keeping blockchains & NFTs in mind. For that reason, while I don’t believe they’re averse to privacy per se, I do believe there’s a strong need to rethink our regulations to keep up.
As things currently stand, NFTs & blockchain technology may provide a strong illusion of anonymity, but the inherent risks to privacy can’t be overlooked. Data protection guarantees like the right to be forgotten don’t extend themselves to blockchain autonomously, the standard of cybersecurity currently deployed to protect NFTs is dubious at best & identity theft in this space is a legitimate concern.
Striking a balance between steadily growing technology & the delicate boundaries of privacy might just be the solution.
Any specific roadmap you followed for the IAPP certification programme?
IAPP provides comprehensive, albeit sometimes confusing, guidelines on how to prepare for their certifications exams. Where most people get stuck is understanding the practical application of things. You see, IAPP tests you, not on how much you can memorise & learn but what you can apply & help operationalise. And the textbook only goes so far with that.
The roadmap I followed was learning with a mentor. Your journey becomes so much easier when you have someone to show you the ropes. It really comes down to doing things the right way. Do you just want to pass an exam for the sake of it? Or do you want to learn how things are done so you can do your job properly? One gets you a piece of paper that can only get your foot in the door & the other gets you the role, the promotion, the pay hike & the credibility.
AI will take the job of Lawyers, how far do you think this will happen? Or Maybe you think that has already started happening?
Law, at its very core, is innately human. AI is an aid, not a solution. While indispensable in its utility, I don’t believe it’ll ever replace lawyers.
That said, the tech we use today does cut into a huge chunk of the market that was traditionally sourced by entry-level workforce. However, I like to look at it as an inevitable but temporary impediment to demand, that will ultimately create more opportunities for lawyers to step away from menial tasks & come into more skillset rich roles.
AI can help you draft, monitor, recommend & even predict, but it’s ultimately dependent on human judgment to bring it to fruition & I don’t see that changing anytime soon.
If not a lawyer, what Ananya Patil would have been in life?
I’d love to be an author! There’s something about putting pen to paper that’s so gratifying. I’d love to play with words, weave emotions into them & tell stories.
Some advice for our young law professionals?
Look at yourself as a business. You are after all, a brand in & of yourself. Like every business, you need to invest in yourself to grow. It’s a skillset based market.
What skills can you pick up to cater to the demand? If no one’s buying your product, you’re not targeting their needs effectively.
What tweaks can you make to your CV? Good customer service often births resounding word of mouth. Is your client happy with your work?
Most people don’t realise they can create opportunities for themselves. That’s where you can gain an edge. Network & observe.
What problems can you solve? Being a great lawyer is seldom only about the law. Yet, that’s where the majority gets hung up. Look beyond the conventional & brainstorm ways to differentiate yourself.
What was your motivation behind choosing law as a career?
This was more of a destiny than a chosen path. I always wanted to do MBA and be in corporate Management. Post high School while exploring career options I came to know about National Law Schools, and in the meantime NLU Patna started. While going in depth I got to know the plethora of opportunity a law student can have post completion of the degree.
I figured out that choosing Law as a career option will be academically challenging and financially & personally rewarding. I thought choosing law would help me in improving my standard of thoughts, skills & knowledge. With this thought process I sat for entrance exam and got admission in NLU.
How has been your journey in this profession so far? And do you think first generation lawyers have to face more challenges than the one’s having already a family of lawyers?
Prior to globalization, there were very limited option for a law graduate to opt for. Post completion of law most of the candidates will have to go for litigation only. Moreover, for a first generation lawyer it would be difficult to even have a decent earning out of it. Most of the law students were forced to join any senior counsel wherein the incentives were very low or I would say nil. Nevertheless, this changes post globalization, plethora of opportunity were introduced in the legal field. Recent times a law graduate can opt for Litigation or Corporate Legal or Law firms or LPOs or any other intermediary platforms.
Talking about my Journey I will definitely say that I have focused on the long run and tried to put my hands on every aspects of Legal field. Today’s time a GC position requires having hands on experience in Legal, Compliance, Risk and Audit. After 10 years post completion of my degree, when I look back there were so many different areas I have explored and I can definitely tell other aspiring lawyers to not only have full control over your current profile but also be keen to take risk and explore what more this profession can offer in various diversities.
What are the challenges while coordinating with various departments and conducting fraud investigations, as far as I believe this takes a lot of time and research, so how do you prepare yourself?
Every fraud investigation is different and unique in nature so you cannot apply your same textbook strategy on every case you have. You have to keep yourself upgraded and you have to use your experience, knowledge and common sense in every case.
The key role of fraud investigator is to catch hold of the perpetrators but most importantly, our role is to create deterrence in the system to avoid further frauds. Fraudster’s will keep on finding loopholes in the system and policies and we have to keep finding different ways to catch hold of these people.
Working endlessly and achieving so much at such a young age requires constant motivation and a crystal clear vision as well, so what’s your mantra for the same?
Motivation will only come when you love your profession and you are ready to face new challenges. I had a neck for wanting to know everything what is going on behind the scene since childhood. This aptitude in me kept me interested and motivated to find out the truth in every investigation I do. This profession poses you with different set of challenges every day, its one of the most dynamic role one can do. My Mantra is very simple. Work with full dedication and take things to logical conclusion, achievement and success will follow.
Are conducting insurance compliances somehow different from others or If I ask you how do you make it easier and efficient?
The Fraud Risk and compliance functions of an Insurance Company are expected not only to protecting insurance companies from downside risks but also to shift toward providing them with strategic advice to support growth and changes.
To execute these responsibilities, we as a function must be agile and proactive, delivering results cost-efficiently. We must tap into the power of advanced analytics and automation so that people can focus entirely on the activities that most need human judgement: mapping key processes and leveraging technology advances. We always focus on modernizing the rigid legacy systems and processes that inhibit the sharing and crosschecking of data in a timely manner, which is vital to evaluating exposures.
What are the opportunities ahead in Reg-Tech and relative sectors? How can professionals upskill themselves?
Legal professionals have to keep updated not only with the legislations but also with the digitized mechanism in harmony with the legislation. It cannot be denied that the regulation specific sectors have had been significantly updated with tech-based platforms in forms of AI tools. More so because of the nature of the varied segment any regulatory specific sector holds. It brings in huge doorway of opportunity to stay in Regulation specific sector, both absolutely working in it and remotely working with such sectors by being associated with AI based tools. In order to keep upskill for reg-tech sector, it is crucial to stay aware about the market and market players initially. Having said that, it shall be the practical aspect of understanding- example- contracts, competition, sectoral regulation, etc.
Audit seems to be easier for some people, but that’s not true right? What are the preparations necessary to have?
Audit is a powerful tool, which allows you to establish a baseline for your legal position and response. It comprises a broader range of operational issues, or at specific areas of the systems around financial organization in more details. Internal audit might, for example, look at payroll, financial controls, process or data senstivity, etc. It definitely provides an opportunity to identify and remove the element of surprise about legal exposure and legal issues, which have not been identified by the organization’s day-to-day work.
There is no straightjacket blueprint for the preparation; it encompasses you to have bandwidth of knowledge across legal functions. One should have a good hold of the sector they are in in order to identify risks which have otherwise not been clearly understood, or which have been masked through other controls.
What motivated you to take law as a career and how has been the decision so far?
This has a fairly clichéd answer. My mother was keen that I study law, so I started preparing for the various law school exams. However, right from then I’ve loved the subject and am glad for having taken up law. I enjoy how logical the subject is, and helping families and enabling businesses feels deeply rewarding.
What are your views on AI or legal tech adoption, what restrictions will it have in the coming years?
Adopting tech is extremely important. We should all adopt it as early as possible. Tech helps you do the same things more efficiently, saving time, effort and resources. This frees up the professionals to spend more time thinking of more innovative solutions. India still is a developing democracy with many fields of laws at a nascent stage. Lawyers should be able to spend more time in assisting the legal sector mature and bring it at par with international standards. I don’t see tech being able to replace that yet.
Ma’am, do you think any road-maps help in a career like law, or like many you trust that things can happen by the flow itself?
Man proposes, God disposes. Although roadmaps have their limitations, one should definitely have one. However, be flexible enough to change the roadmap as and when required, especially in a dynamic market like ours. However, advising on a roadmap is difficult, as each individual has their own story and the roadmap would be different for all.
According to you Shruti, as a law student, where should the focus be on, the hard work on academics or smart work on networking and building a great skill-set?
Both, but I feel more on academics. Networking is also important but if you want to be a good lawyer, you have to pay attention to the reading and academics. Smart work and building a great skill-set is a given and not contrary to putting in hard work on academics. They go hand in hand.
“Unconventional careers in law will spoil your degree”, why has this misconception led many people far away from the legal industry revolution and how to excel oneself to reach heights?
I don’t know of this misconception to exist really. I see more and more people taking up ‘unconventional’ careers in law. We now have lawyers getting into the business of law firm management, law firm branding, specialised HR for law firms, and the like. In fact, this is quite an underdeveloped space in India still.
We hardly have any specialized firms that lend support to law firms in industry research in complex litigation’s, financial fraud research, and the like, which is much more developed in the west. I think we need many more professionals taking up “unconventional careers in law”.
When we talk about disputes, most of the time obviously both the parties commit the same number of mistakes, and both suffer as well, before even going for conflict resolution, don’t you think there is some way out before that?
I don’t think it’s obvious that both parties make the same number of mistakes, though you are right, that there will often be a grey area. I do feel that most parties try to settle a matter out of Court prior to coming to lawyers and opting for the legal route. However, this is not because they opt for institutional mediation or ADR, but because they want to avoid the long delays and heavy expenses involved in coming to Court. Most people come to lawyers as a last resort, unless it’s a matter of ego.
We already have pre-litigation mediation as a mandatory requirement for commercial litigation, which has quite honestly, been a farce.
In fact I feel it should be quite the opposite. Our legal system should inspire confidence in the citizens that they will get timely relief and do not feel compelled to settle because of lack of confidence in the legal system.
We read that you are a graphologist, what is it all about, is it something related to astrology?
Graphology is the study of handwriting analysis. Astrology, at the cost of oversimplification, is the study of the impact the position of the planets at the time of our birth have on our lives. Graphology and Astrology are not directly related. I have always been interested in the occult sciences and have recently started studying Vedic Astrology also. I want to understand on what basis astrologers, who have gained quite a reputation for themselves as being charlatans, make the predictions that they do.
Talking about work-life balance, there has been ample amount of discussion on health issues as a lawyer, what do you believe are the best practices to maintain the equilibrium?
I feel it is fairly difficult to maintain work-life balance at a fresher level. That is a stage when you really do need to burn the midnight oil. However, after a few years, it is not difficult to maintain work-life balance. I feel the elements you need incorporate in your life to maintain the equilibrium are
(1) Exercise,
(2) Spending time on a hobby,
(3) Meeting friends, and
(4) practicing some form of spirituality, perhaps meditation. I have maintained that practicing grounding activities of some sort are important and goes a long way in improving mental health. Meditation, journaling, light exercises, sound sleep (even if for lesser hours) help tremendously in mental health, and can be practiced even when you don’t really have work life balance.
Few advice for our young law professionals?
It is important for you to enjoy what you do. The profession is a marathon, not a sprint. I cannot over-emphasize the importance of reading. Whenever you are studying a branch or aspect of law, make your own notes. It will help you in future. Try to maintain your own database of caselaws from the start. Most importantly, don’t burn out.
Is law something you were inclined to pursue, and why did you decided to pursue it?
Initially law was not my first preference – it was medicine. Some proclivity caused by watching television shows such as Boston Legal etc gave birth to my legal career when I enrolled at the Faculty of Law Jamia Millia Islamia in a 5 year LLB Programme. Without slightest hesitation, I can now confirm that I was meant to be a lawyer. In other words, patients got lucky!
During my first few years of legal studies and mock trial competitions, I felt a sense of proclivity and interest in law as I thoroughly enjoyed the subject/discipline. On one occasion, I won an award at a Bar Council of India event and Mr R Venkatramani invited me to his office for a brief conversation. Sir as kind he is, inspired and encouraged me to join litigation. I never looked back.
After my LL.M at McGill University, Canada, I was selected to pursue my second masters at University of Oxford – which further powered my quest to pursue litigation – and this time rights centric. The profession has been equally financially rewarding in terms of both needs and wants. Litigation as I know it provides me with opportunities to learn and grow every day, moment. Every court room provides me with a vicarious experience – unlike anything else.
What is your current role? Could you walk us through how a normal day looks like in your life?
I am blessed and equally thrilled to have multiple roles. From representing Govt as a Standing Counsel/Special Counsel to Law Enforcement agencies, I have a private practice where I am represent clients before various court of records across India and primarily at Delhi.
A normal day for me usually entails visiting at least 2-3 forums, which would ordinarily start (depending on cause list) with High Court then Trial Courts/NCLT etc. or Supreme Court. It is a challenge managing dates as we endeavour to get an effective hearing as much as practicable and possible. Most of cause list management is intuitive and cannot be managed without an efficient (which I am lucky to have).
This follows with conferences with clients, seniors, law office management and that too with utmost punctuality when possible! At last, we finish our work, leave some for the day to come. Research and case laws – preparation for the matters listed on the following day/week is most important of all and given priority on daily basis.
What worked well for you doing a MSC in criminology and how in the beginning it created an interest for you?
For me MSC Criminology and Criminal justice meant a second masters. Then, I had just finished my LLM in Comparative law from McGill University, Canada. It is undeniable that my proclivity in criminal law was polished at Oxford – inasmuch it enabled me to really think critically of the underlying issues concerning administration of criminal justice in India. It helped me get a holistic understanding of both the victim and the accused.
The society as a tertiary victim. The fact that my entire cohort was representative of people from across the world helped me gain insight into other territorial jurisdictions. Some were judges, lawyers, social activists etc. while others were academics. Therefore, it gave me an opportunity to reflect on the entire process and which comes in very handy on day to day basis.
As a faculty for Delhi Police and other authorities, where do you see the gap to be filled while maintaining a sort of balance between Police and Courts?
As a Faculty at Delhi Police and other institutions, the most obvious gap is – translating theory to practice in terms of procedural fairness to due process before Courts. The situation exacerbates owing to excessive pendency and work load on Investigating Officers – who have multifarious roles such as attending courts, investigation, attending emergency calls etc. Despite this, the institutional legitimacy of law enforcement agencies are often put in doubt perhaps because of one or two remote incidents. The narrative (negative ones) often spread like a wild fire thereby putting the entire executive in the dock.
This needs to be reflected upon and worked upon as an entire society at large. The law enforcement agencies deserve due credit for managing as diverse of a society as ours, day in and day out and most importantly constructive criticism – aimed towards helping them improve. Apart from this, there needs to be a better coordination inter se judiciary and executive.
I personally feel, the investigating officers should be allowed to join virtually where possible so as to enable them to work on their files/ investigation while waiting for their turn at various Courts and should only show up in person in cases especially called upon by the Courts. We would also benefit from joint training programmes and programmes designed to overcome hierarchical gaps between the law enforcement agencies and that of the trial judiciary – who manages the major bit of fair trail rights of the accused and that of the victims.
How far do you consider the role of publications in a legal professional’s life?
The role of publications and academic discourse as a legal professional is one of the most important duties bestowed upon us. This is indispensable for two reasons,
(1) Our duty to disseminate what we learn on day to day basis
(2) Enable young counsels / new ones to learn from our vicarious experiences as much as possible. Publications or academic discourse is one of the most important platform for a legal debate and to discuss socio-legal issues. Through publications, we are provided with a platform that enables us in identifying situations of conflict of laws, pre-empt situations surrounding conflict of laws and allow suggestions for improvement.
Personally speaking, I have regularly published both scholarly work and have a book coming up on criminology. I personally feel that an academic heart is sine qua non for any legal practitioner be it this side or the other side of the bench.
Being able to accomplish so much in such a short period of time, what challenges did you face?
Well I don’t know if I have accomplished anything as of now. Accomplishment is a myth in our legal profession. The idea is to continue to thrive to learn in this knowledge based economy as I label it. The beauty of our profession is networking and making new friends so often than not. I am often astonished by unique approaches of our interns and young associates. The legal fraternity is changing for good.
What message/advice would you like to give to the upcoming generation of law and young people in general?
The message I would give to the upcoming generation is simple yet straight forward –
Focus on mental health. Stay away from unhealthy social media. Study in a multidisciplinary manner. Stay updated with global affairs and spend time with your loved ones in a quality way. Learn to separate personal and professional time –
This will enable you to procrastinate less. Best wishes to them all!
What was your motivation behind choosing law as a career?
I decided to take up law as a career after my 10th boards. After interning with a fashion designer and at a couple of NGO’s and speaking to people who were working in various other fields, taking up law was a clear decision for me because I had decided that I wanted to help people by finding solutions to their legal problems. I wanted to contribute to society in a way I thought would be more effective.
I have always had a passion for writing and I have always had strong opinions and so choosing law as a career was a means to work towards achieving everything I was setting out to do including the person I wanted to become.
What were the challenges that you faced in the beginning of your career?
Like every other first generation lawyer, I felt I had been thrown into the deep end of the ocean at the beginning of my career. Although, one learns to read the law and apply oneself in different scenarios in a classroom setup, when you join practice, you are immediately transformed into a professional and are expected to apply your skills and assist your seniors with all aspects of a transaction, whether it is research, contract reviewing and drafting or speaking to clients and managing them.
The first year of practice can be a daunting experience for most lawyers, however, the initial years will also set the course for what is to come so I believe that hard work, passion, determination and the ability to push oneself and grow through the discomfort are key to ensuring a successful and meaningful career.
You started out as an intellectual property lawyer and then moved to corporate law. Can you tell us more about your role as an IP lawyer and how is it different from being a corporate lawyer?
My role as an IP lawyer involved advising clients across the globe on trademark and copyright-related laws in India. I handled IP portfolios of some of the leading FMCG companies in the world and handled all aspects of trade mark and copyright prosecution. My work involved conducting clearance searches, drafting replies to examination report, strategic development and management of trade mark and copyright portfolios and appearing before the trademarks registry. I switched to corporate law after almost two years in IP.
As a corporate lawyer I handle all aspects of general corporate advisory, commercial contracting, employment law advisory and contracting and investment transactions. I also regularly advise cloud communication companies on regulatory, policy and compliance’s issues. I believe my unique experience of intellectual property law and corporate law has helped me understand the legal requirements of a company when it comes to its business model in a holistic manner.
As someone who is passionate about writing on various topics, how important do you think legal writing is and what are the skills that one needs to have in order?
I have always had a flair for writing essays, poetry and screenplays throughout my school days. As lawyers, we are essentially thinkers and writers. As a young girl, I found that the best way for me to express my feelings was through writing. In law school, I had the opportunity to hone my writing skills and move up to writing articles on various legal topics that were of my interest. Research and writing was a way for me to delve deeper into subjects that interested me and to stay abreast with the latest developments in the legal field.
I had found the way for me, as a lawyer, to express my thoughts and opinions and this helped me find my confidence professionally.
According to you, briefly what is the right approach to drafting tech contracts and other critical documents?
As a lawyer working in the telecommunications and technology space, we have to learn and adapt to changing technologies and bridge the gap between legal and tech to provide solutions to our clients and help them mitigate their business risks.
From a contract drafting perspective, it is important to firstly understand the clients product and services and to ensure the clients compliance with the legal and regulatory framework surrounding its business model. It is important to have a strong understanding of the Information Technology Act, 2000 and rules including the data protections laws.
Having a strong grasp on the industry specific regulations is also a must. For example, for clients in the digital communications space, it is crucial to understand the implications of TRAI regulations such as the Telecom Commercial Communication Customer Preference Regulation (TCCCPR), 2018 on their business. It is important to incorporate appropriate clauses in the clients customer/user agreements to help mitigate any risks due to non-compliance with the such regulations. Having a good understanding of the clients licensing framework and business model is also necessary when advising in this space.
With content writing they say your drafting improves a lot, if you agree, would you suggest only writing on legal topics or any other niche as well?
I feel that one should write only if they are passionate about it. What started out as a personal outlet became a professional skill for me. That being said, being able to express your thoughts in a clear and concise manner is a skill which ultimately helps in professional pursuits in this industry.
As technology related startups including legal technology are evolving at a rapid pace, how must lawyers and law firms prepare themselves for doing different types of legal work?
This is an interesting time to be a lawyer and through our work at Cornellia Chambers we hope to disrupt the legal services industry through innovation under the guidance of our founder and mentor Ms. Pritika Kumar. Ever since the pandemic and offices becoming virtual and with the evolution of technology, everything and everyone has moved to the cloud and traditional law firms and systems are being challenged every day.
Such innovation in the industry will not only help organizations and the community of lawyers to become more efficient but will also help in improving the issue of lack of access to justice in our country through technological means.
Any few important tips for young law professionals?
Always be eager to learn, diligent and passionate about your work and never be afraid to fail.
Tell us what inclined you to pursue law as a profession?
Well there is no inspiring story here unfortunately. I did choose science as my study stream for my plus two boards, but that was because my parents initially wanted me to become a doctor. Law happened pretty accidentally actually! It was more like law chose me. My uncle, who is a lawyer at the Calcutta High Court, told me at that time of the emergence of the national law schools across the country and the bright, young graduates these institutions were producing and suggested I should try taking the exams for these law schools.
I only took the exam for WBNUJS, Kolkata (ours was the last batch who took individual law school exams instead of the CLAT) after preparing for about a month. The results came out about two weeks before the boards and I was very happy to find that I had gotten through. I decided that this was what I was going to pursue and make a career out of. And that is how it happened.
Do you have any mentors so far that helped you so far in this journey, and how far do you consider the role of mentors crucial in the industry?
Yes of course. You cannot grow as a professional in the legal industry (or for that matter any industry) without the help of your mentors. A good mentor will teach you so much especially as a litigating lawyer – the art of a good draft, how much to say and what not to say in Court, how to strategize a matter etc. Whatever little I am today I am because of some excellent mentors I have had in the industry.
Why does Corporate law attract so much attention? What makes it so unique?
Well it would be easy to say that it attracts the attention of young graduates because of the money on offer, but that would be a shallow perspective. If you do not like and enjoy what you do on a daily basis, you will not stick around or grow, no matter the money on offer. This is why you see attrition rates are so high in the bigger law firms. However, if you like what you do, then the sky is the limit. Speaking personally, as a Disputes lawyer, I love the challenges of my job day in and day out.
I have to keep our clients happy and they must feel comfortable to repose their trust in their high stakes, valuable matters in me. I have to advise them correctly, guide them down the right path, put every ounce of research and knowledge into these matters so that their chances of success are enhanced and they know that they are in safe hands – it is a challenge I am up for every day of the week.
How do you manage your time schedule on a daily basis and what drives you to be consistent?
I would not lie, law firm life can be pretty demanding – whether you are an A-1 level associate or a partner, every day brings its own challenges which consume most of your time. I have varied interests apart from law – I love reading fiction, watching sports especially football, spending time with my family and my dog. While most of my time is taken up by my work, I ensure that at the end of the day (no matter how late it is) I am taking an hour or two out to do these things I love – read a bit, maybe watch a film or a game of football, take the dog out for a walk, maybe go for a run or a long drive sometimes. It rejuvenates me and helps me face the next day with the same enthusiasm again.
What differences have you noticed in international arbitration and national arbitration, I mean what’s more challenging amongst both?
Both bring their own challenges to be honest. In an international arbitration, you are bound by the procedure of the institution under whose aegis the arbitration is happening – SIAC, ICC, LCIA etc. and the procedure is much more streamlined as opposed to domestic ad hoc arbitrations.
Also, in international arbitration’s you often have to work in close collaboration with foreign lawyers or law firms, and therefore seamless execution of the work can be a challenge as well as a learning experience at the same time. On the other hand, in domestic arbitration, especially ad hoc ones, arbitrators adopt their own procedures and therefore the same may be different from one arbitration to another, and you are constantly adapting as a lawyer to make the best case for your client.
However, arbitration in India has been developing at a fast rate, and amendments to the statute in 2015 and 2019 have ensured shortening of timelines and streamlining of overall procedure, and I believe the future of arbitration in India is very bright.
Do you believe that AI will lead to data breach and violation of privacy, if yes, how can it be mitigated?
I am not a data privacy lawyer and therefore I am ill-equipped to answer this question. My opinions on AI and data breach are based on what I have read in popular media, and I do not want to adopt a conspiratorial tone for your readers without in-depth familiarity with the issue myself.
Few tips for our readers that helped you as well in this journey?
First of all, you must decide what you want to do. Law firms are not be all and end all for a law graduate – there are a lot of career choices you can adopt – you can be a corporate lawyer, a litigating lawyer, an independent practitioner, an academic or venture into public policy.
Do not follow the herd- look into your heart and see what you really want. As I said before, if you are not finding what you are doing everyday exciting or challenging, there is no point doing it. Also, no matter which path you choose, there is only one mantra of success for all of them – read.
You have to read constantly as a lawyer, you have to keep updating yourself. Law evolves constantly, you can never be a good lawyer if you are not evolving with the law as well. That would be my two pennies for your readers.
The opinions and views expressed are that of the author and Optum, United Health Group bears no responsibility whatsoever. The thoughts shared are for general informational purposes and should not be construed as any official advisory.
Why did you choose law as a career, was it planned or all of a sudden you decided to be a lawyer?
I was a science student, who was coaching herself to be a doctor honestly, so I didn’t really know if law was something I would want to pursue.
It was definitely not a planned decision to begin with. It was at the middle of my 12th grade, when my fellow students started discussing about courtroom dramas and how they are being inclined towards pursuing law, I started reading and exploring the opportunities in legal field.
On a lighter note, it wouldn’t be wrong to even admit that I became attracted to courtroom dramas and the more glamorized view of law.
I started to then consider more seriously what I wanted the most in my career and think I wanted professional stability and financial security. I was also keen to follow a career path that allows me to leverage my communication skills and offers an avenue for continious learning and keeping myself updated with the latest in a field.
At the time it felt that the law provides both, so I imagined it would be an ideal career for me.
Then the more I read about it, I started to understand that being such a fascinating field it would offer nuanced challenges to resolve while demanding a variety of skills and this piqued my interest in the field law.
What were the challenges that you faced in the beginning of your career?
Learning about law in classrooms compared to real life application in time bound scenarios was the first challenge that I faced.
There were many days that I had to go back to refer to my internship days or leverage experience of my batch mates/seniors to draft an appropriate clause or provide the most effective advice. Initial days required a lot more hours being spent making the transition from academics to a law associate all the more challenging.
Apart from this, settling in a big city like Bombay was also a real challenge. Coming from a small town and then being in law schools’ protected environment, it was only now that I had to “go figure” for everything from renting a house, setting it up, making transport arrangements, at the same time putting the extra work in the first few months of your career. The trouble is, no one teaches you this part!
Mugdha, do you think that for a first-generation lawyer, the journey becomes a little difficult? Please explain the same wrt to your own experience.
Stepping into law school was a new world, where people who had families with multiple generations of lawyers talked fluently about topics I was making hard efforts to understand myself and that made me feel I had more catching up to do. I had to assess all opportunities independently with my own lens and learn concepts from scratch that some had been exposed to from childhood.
Looking back I feel now that the extra effort I had put in also created the appreciation that I hold for the field of law.
Being able to build an experience in M & A and VC deals, what according to you are the most important skills to have?
Within my limited experience of M&A and VC deals, I believe one of the most important skill is to see the bigger picture. You need to be able to get your head out of the documents to see that you are working the whole process from scratch to end and therefore must be able to build your opinion on the end goal and the manner in which you’d assist your client to achieve it.
This requires strong business awareness and equally strong legal and commercial understanding of the transaction.This in no sense should take away from the importance of paying attention to detail as the devil is always in those details!
Apart from this I believe, building a good relationship with both your client and also opposing counsels, help you navigate the negotiations better and sometimes even builds your own power of persuasion. While this may not be practical all the time, trying never hurts.
As someone who got a chance to work with big companies, was it a smooth sail for you?
I don’t think it was all rosy by any means. It did take some time and effort and a lot of of unlearning for ultimately learning some more. I worked towards moving from a law firm mindset and started to imbibe an in-house midset.
The in-house mindset I speak of is much more closer to business, stakeholder requirements and is also customer driven. In the beginning one of the challenges that I personally faced was balancing expectations as an in-house counsel, keeping the business needs ahead of the legal structures and nuances, yet being within the scope of law.
I’d say, I am still a work in progress.
India is witnessing amazing growth because of the startups, according to you Mugdha, what are the roles and responsibilities of a lawyer in dealing with start-ups?
In my opinion, you need to be more of a generalist in the real sense of the word. As a startup lawyer you must know a bit of everything as you advise startups throughout their lifecycle on a variety of issues, while all along living the risks and uncertainties associated with startups. This begins with setting up of their venture and related legal & regulatory compliance, which then moves to routine advisory for general corporate or commercial transactions undertaken on a regular basis.
The role of the startup lawyer doesn’t end here as now they will also assist the startups for raising capital from angels and VCs and help the startups sail through legal and business issues arising as it scales and grows its businesses.
Finally, also taking the full circle and reaching the finishing line is the most toughest, but perhaps also one of the more satisfying tasks of a startup lawyer who has seen the emergence and growth of the startup and is now able to help them sell the business or take the company public in an IPO.
Creating a work-life balance and focusing on mental health has been a challenge lately in this industry, but you manage it well, please tell our audience how?
I think I am far from managing it well, but I am now at a place where I constantly aim to strike that balance between work and personal life and try and give time to a lot of my dreams beyond just the law and my professional commitments. I now understand when to pause and enjoy life and when to get back to the rigorous work routine.
I am comfortable assessing how much work is too much work and to take a step back (including mentally), when needed.
I enjoy creating content when I get some time while I am travelling or just some happy stuff on Instagram. I unapologetically think that it is okay and so I am active on social media because I enjoy it.
While I understand, to some social media is trivial or toxic and to an extent it maybe is, but I think it is also a great tool to voice your opinion, teach, learn or for just any form of expression and I believe a part of my ‘work-life balance’ comes from being able to show who I am or where my heads at by simply expressing it. It is a very personal view though and to each their own!
For this I believe one sincerely has to put in efforts to create this space and the right kind of work place often accelerates that effort.
Apart from expression on social media platform, I love experimenting with food, both to cook and eat. I travel across continents just to experience the culture and I believe a part of that culture is their food. Once am back, for weeks I try to recreate food that I eat on my escapades and I enjoy reliving my travel stories through this.
I love to travel as it adds perspective to life and keeps me grounded too knowing that theres a huge World out there with variety of people and culture and we, as an individual, are such a small part of this whole story and there is so much to learn and know.
They say nowadays a lawyer must have that business acumen, do you believe this as well? If yes, briefly describe our audience about it.
Yes, definitely. The journey becomes smoother once you are able to amalgamate your legal knowledge with business acumen and are able to communicate effectively and efficiently with your stakeholders.
A lot of decision making is done by weighing and analyzing differentiated opinions and often conflicting priorities, that may even sometime require you to say “No”. As in-house counsel, one should learn to strike that balance.
In the rapidly growing and dynamic world, it becomes important to anticipate and understand how various factors such as geopolotical scenarios, changing landscapes of policies and increased focus on risk mitigation will impact both businesses and laws.
Lastly, few tips for our young law professionals?
For the young law professionals I have just a few tips from my own experiences and that is ;
‘Use this time to understand where you want to be in next 10 and 20 years of your career and start making those career choices early on, if possible’
These are the days of maximum learning but also maximum hardwork so put in that extra effort and it will take you a long way.
Having said that, don’t lose the sense of self and try and understand your own boundaries, that can help you create space for self-awareness and mental stability.
Why did you study law, was it planned or all of a sudden you decided to study law?
Well, I was always passionate about Law as a subject as from my childhood I was argumentative by nature be it with my parents or friends on any issue. I have always been putting myself in the shoes of others and think as to how I would handle the situation. It was crazy though, but I had lots of “If’s” and “But’s” in my responses.
Sometimes people didn’t have responses to the questions I posed and that kind of triggered me to study Law. My well-wishers also pushed me to consider the legal profession going by my nature of asking questions for almost every question.
Little did I know at that time that one also needs to have a solid mentor in the field to get that on ground experience and understand the practicality involved.
How did you divert from taking Law as a profession to get on to the corporate world. What were the challenges that you faced in the beginning of your career.
After my graduation I was at a juncture where I was to choose between Business Management and Law. I chose Law to fulfil my dream of being a lawyer though eventually I did my Business Management as well.
I wanted to practice Law but since I was going to be the 1st generation lawyer in my family, I did not have a great mentor in that field, and we were in Hyderabad then. With not very active social media at that time, it was difficult for me to access Law firms in Mumbai and Delhi where you know big Law Firms were present. That was a big disappointment. But I was happy that I possessed the legal knowledge that I desired. I then decided to move towards corporate world to get experience and eventually be an entrepreneur.
Since business also needs a practical exposure, I joined a Market Research co. so I can get the much-needed market exposure. What started as real world training, I went on doing extremely well and started climbing the corporate ladder swiftly. My very first job landed me in an MNC and climbing a corporate ladder at a faster pace made me to continue in that line. I quickly became the youngest Regional Manager handling South India in a span of 11 years getting promotions at an average of once every 2 years and that carried on till my last stint where I was heading Content Operations for Asia with offices in over 8 countries in yet another MNC.
Lack of Experience was a huge challenge in my first job I got into a company with no experience while my batch mates were all experienced. So, there was a huge difference in my understanding and behaviour versus my peers who were already exposed to corporate world. It took 2 years for me to understand the nuances of corporate culture and understand how it all works and then there was no looking back.
Though, I did have mentors in my corporate journey which really helped during this phase of my career.
Arun, do you think that for a first-generation lawyer, the journey becomes a little difficult? Please explain the same wrt to your own experience.
Ans: Yes, to a great extent. At least during my time when I completed my Law in 1998, one needed to have that solid mentor or a senior who could train you. Law being a profession where the clients would come to an accomplished lawyer having a very good reputation of winning cases as the issues are usually dealing with one’s life and death. Be it civil cases where you are fighting for hard earned properties versus a family law case or a criminal case where lives are involved. So, no one would like to try out a lawyer who has just completed Law with no major cases to boast of.
With almost no presence of social media at that time a lawyer’s profession was more physical in nature and one’s presence on the ground mattered a lot.
The other challenge was the profession where the junior is expected to learn on his/her own. The senior lawyer may not have that time to train you unless you are kin of the senior. So, for a first timer to establish in the legal profession poses a big challenge but I am glad to say that things are changing now with a lot of Law Firms sprouting and opportunities are thriving for the deserved.
It is also fascinating to see the newer generation of lawyers are well informed, tech savvy and deep rooted in their thoughts which matters a lot to be a good lawyer.
How would you describe your previous experiences in the legal content and editing process, there has been a lot going around since post-covid in this sector, how do you see it creating new opportunities for individuals?
Ans: India has been developing at an exponential pace with technology taking the lead. Thanks to the Central Government for pushing the Make in India and other tech initiatives. Though the legal content and editorial space is not untouched with this development but in my experience Covid has really given that boost in this area.
Law has always been a traditional profession with Printed material taking the top rack. Gone are the days where one use to do manual editing of legal content, this has transformed into people including authors doing online editing/content updates. This is a huge change. Imagine bills/legislations passed by parliament getting signed by the President and the same being available online in a matter of 24 hrs. This has taken out obsolescence of content which hitherto was being circulated in the form of print in the market.
The legal fraternity up till pre-covid was transforming at a rather slower pace. Covid has made this industry to re-think and adapt to technology which has changed the industry dynamics in a big way. From Legal Research to Content Sourcing to Content Enhancement to Online First, new strategies have sprung up in no time. AI based Analytical Solutions which are now available has played a huge role.
This has also opened opportunities for youngsters from being a Legal Researcher to play a role in digitization. Of course, the western markets in this area are far too advanced compared to India. There is still a lot which needs to be done in India and there is a huge potential for technology in this space.
Unfortunately, Indian Legal content is still quite unorganised and unstructured which poses a challenge to the tech cos to play in this area. Thanks to the recent and the upcoming Chief Justices of India who are well versed with technology and have been pushing hard to make courts paperless and make life simpler for the citizens.
I am glad to state here that the digital transformation has now caught up pace in the legal industry and we are running against time as people have seen the need and are getting metamorphosed.
The role of CEO/COO of any firm is challenging and full of hurdles, how do you manage your time and responsibilities for the same?
While the responsibilities of a CEO/COO in any organization is similar but what matters is in what kind of a business ecosystem are you in. A start-up COO has different challenges compared to a COO of a larger well-funded and established Organization where processes are time tested and you already have a history of trials and errors.
Again, the challenges varies when you are managing a multi country teams versus just single country/location teams. I am stating this with my experience where I have worked in MNC’s with multi nation presence to promoter driven companies. Handling Operations at the helm of these Organizations gave me very different learnings and experience.
Irrespective of the size, I think one of the biggest hurdles is managing people. People are like the fingers of your hand. Everyone is different. So, you need to nurture everyone to be at a particular level. With people coming from different back grounds and having different IQ levels, its not easy. One needs to be organized and take care of your employees which is the key. Organizations are made of employees.
I believe that everyone has the same 24 hrs, and one needs to accomplish all his/her duties, personal to professional in the same time so respecting time and utilizing it to the best is the key. I use my calendar quite effectively which ensures I do not carry a lot in my mind. Everything is jotted in my calendar from Private to Professional engagements.
On the responsibilities, I don’t think everyone is cut to do everything in life. We all have our strengths and weaknesses, so ensure the job is done by the person who is best in that area rather than trying to do something which you don’t have that kind of expertise – Effective delegation and setting a strong process is my mantra.
Trust and delegate and do what you are supposed to do. If everyone starts doing their own job that they are meant to do, you are bound to be successful. E.g., If a Sales guy gets into Operations, then who’s going to sell the product.
I go with a philosophy that if I do someone else’s job then who’s going to do my job? While helping, supporting, collaboration are different which goes without saying in any organization whether it’s a small start-up or a large organization.
How do you see digital transformation changing the way we deal with the legal industry?
There is a huge role for Digital Transformation to play in the Legal Industry. We are far too behind in this area compared to our western counterparts. Undoubtedly, we have come a long way in transforming ourselves from a paper-based economy to a digital.
A classic example being the currency transactions in India today stand at 40% digital mode. So, going digital is the buzz word and I think one good thing which happened due to Covid is that we have seen an electronic revolution in almost all areas and Legal is not untouched.
We have seen Legal tech companies investing a lot in making Content more digital, analytical and tech enabled through AI driven technologies. I won’t go longer than a decade where I see a huge foray of digitization in the Legal industry with courts going completely digital and we trying to cut down on time and efforts taken today in submitting those bunch of papers and getting them verified at several stages.
The current back log of cases which is hurting the basic rights of the citizens of getting justice on time can see a huge leap in the coming years.
How do you see the Primary Law in India shaping up in the coming years.
India is a large country and the biggest democracy in the world. We have by far the longest constitution in the world, so the laws are accordingly quite vast. We have close to 1300 Central Legislations which are referred from time to time.
Similarly, there are host of Cases pertaining to Supreme Court and High Courts. Both these are referred regularly in the current set of cases and used immensely in the courts and by the lawyers. Be it Cases or Legislations they all have precedence values hence its essential that we have all these Cases and Legislations handy.
All this can happen only through digitization and having effective analytical tools which can help a Lawyer quote relevant cases in the court and the corresponding Legislations and Provisions. Therefore, having an effective Primary Law content online is a need of the hour and I can see a lot of players today in the market competing to be no 1 in this space. Definitely, there is a huge potential in this area.
I foresee a lawyer walking into the court with a simple Tab and referring to relevant Legislations/Cases and the Judge verifying the same through his online terminal linked to the Master Registry. No more attachments of papers/cases/book portions etc. It’s going to make the system faster, accurate and efficient.
Being able to achieve so much at a young age, what motivates you in life and how do you manage stress in the legal industry?
I did have a very good run in the corporate world. I became the youngest Branch Head in the country and later became the youngest Regional Manager managing Operations for 4 southern states of India and then went on to manage 2 facilities with over 1000 FTEs with P&L responsibility and then managed Operations for Asian sub-continent in the Legal Content side.
Its been 27 years of corporate life which gave a completely different perspective to life and now I have ventured into my own Legal Services Co. which I am so happy to pursue where I am finally exploring my passion.
The motivation has been to always keep going ahead without looking back into the past. I believe whatever was to happen in the past is done, there is nothing much we can do about it, be it good or bad memories, just move on with the learnings.
I am also a staunch believer of destiny as I have come across stages in my life where I never wanted to do something, but the circumstances made me to take that decision which worked out very well for me. So, whatever happens it happens for our good and try moulding your plans accordingly rather than sulking about certain things which happened and was not designed by you.
Stress in today’s world has become a commoner in almost every profession. So, it all boils down to how do you take things the way they are coming to you. You want to keep thinking and worrying about the situation or move and work on those situations. I believe on the later one and apart from that I take help of my hobbies here.
I am a vivacious traveller both by road and going across the continents. Take frequent breaks and keep my mind off. Ensure the weekends are relaxed and am off work as I have experienced personally in my work life that it’s very important for a human to completely switch off your brain for some time, relax and energize it to be more productive. Else, the stress will exhaust you out and that’s not worth it.
Is AI and legal tech the future of the legal industry and do you think it is high time to adapt this transformation?
100%, if we don’t transform, we will become obsolete. Look at the developed nations in the same area AI, NLP, Bots, Automation and unless the content is Technology enabled, we will not be able to make use of the volumes of historical data we have in this industry, and this is an industry where precedence has so much of value.
Imagine a Judge passing on a judgement by looking at the past data, legislations and see which case and law are good law and which was an overruled case etc with a click of a button against referring to heaps of case papers. Analytics in the Legal space is the next in thing, and we need to quickly adapt to that else the law will keep getting complicated and due to the shear dynamism in the subject unless we have means to interpret tons of info. in split seconds, justice can’t be delivered on time.
Remember we are dealing with humans here, so we need to be accurate and faster in this area and that can be achieved only through embracing technology
Tell us something about your venture SARN Legal. What motivated you to start this and how does it work.
Well, SARN Legal is a Legal Services Company with a unique offering to our clients. Let me give a quick background before talking about our USP. I have known founders of start-ups across the industries from health care to IT, Construction, Publishing, Edu. Tech, Hospitality and even Law Firms.
During my discussions it came up that there is a need of Legal support while establishing an organization right from getting a co-founder’s agreement to drafting employee rules, appointment letters, contracts etc and after establishing the company, vetting client contracts, interpreting notices, legalities etc. and advising the founders on various legal matters. So, it had a long prone demand and the firms were depending on Law Firms and individual Lawyers to get these services. Since there is no fixed rate card for any of these services, I saw some of these start-ups have ended up paying huge sums to get these services.
This was a pain point where a recently established company would ideally like to spend their funds more diligently on improvising their products, innovation, and technology. Almost everyone felt they had to pay an exorbitant fee for these services and each one had paid different rates for similar services.
So, we came up with a unique value proposition of introducing a subscription modal for Legal Advisory services at a very affordable rate where one gets a 20 hrs of dedicated legal counsel’s time every month at a nominal cost who would help them in all legal advisory matters. Basically, handle all non-litigation work for an organization. Be available for the companies all through the month. This is the USP which was liked by many firms.
Apart from this there are host of other services (Automatic Contract Tracking, Content enhancement, Web scraping and Data mining, Legal Research, Provide dedicated Legal Resources on Contract, Publishing support to Authors etc) which can be handled by SARN Legal team who are well experienced and have worked in MNC’s in the past, so the teams understand and respect the clients time and one gets a swift response and an immediate attention.
Another huge area which got addressed was the non-responsiveness of Lawyers especially during the day when the client wants them the most. We promise of a quick response time of 2 hrs so someone in SARN Legal team is always working for the client.
With recession setting in, everyone is looking at cutting costs. With SARN’s highly skilled and experienced work force we also extend our support to existing Law Firms, Corporate legal teams to work for them as their extended teams, taking care of all their desk work. We also cater for Local and International Law Firms besides Corporates of all sizes where we provide all Para Legal Services at a rate which is at least 25% cheaper than their existing costs. We are getting a very good traction from these segments of the industry.
At the end, I am glad I was able to make use of my corporate experience together with my entrepreneurial thought process and am able to support MSME segment and Law Firms both at a domestic as well as international level.
What would be your advice for young people in this profession?
My advice to the youngsters in the Legal profession would be to firstly be passionate about what you are doing and stay updated with latest laws, cases, be informative about what’s happening not just around you but, in the country, and possibly across the Globe.
Very important, be tech savvy and transform your thought process to be more analytical and think differently as the industry we are all in is quite vibrant and there is no right or wrong answer for any situation.
Be prepared to face situations which you probably have not envisaged about and voice out your thoughts. Do not fear of people on what they may think about you. Lastly believe in yourself and do what you think is right as at the end of the day when you look back you need to answer yourself as to what you have done in the past.
You are measured by your success and not by what others perceive about you. Go out there and give your best, you will be successful.
