How did your academic journey from earning a B.A., LL.B. at Karnataka State Law University to completing an LL.M. in Business and Finance at The George Washington University Law School shape your approach to international transactions and corporate advisory work?
By my third or fourth year of law school, I knew that I wanted to be a corporate transactions lawyer. I didn’t know much about the field back then, but I knew this was the path for me. Interning with top-tier Indian law firms during college gave me a strong foundation and later working in those firms helped sharpen my skills.
When I decided to pursue an LL.M., I wanted to expand my horizons. At George Washington University, my focus was Business and Finance Law, but the university also had a strong International Law program. This gave me the perfect blend. I studied U.S. corporate law and international investment law side by side.
The exposure I got there, especially learning from professors who worked with major international companies and firms, helped me develop a more global, practical, and mature approach to law, something I continue to apply every day at Team Counsel.
In the early phase of your career at a law firm, what were some of the key experiences that enhanced your understanding of the law? How would you describe those formative years in practice?
The early years were intense but transformative. I was in the trenches doing due diligence, legal research, drafting contracts, and attending negotiation meetings, all of which helped shape my legal thinking.
One lesson stood out: the 10,000 hours matter. There’s no shortcut, you have to show up, keep your head down, and learn the craft patiently. Those formative years were very impactful, they shaped who I am today. They also gave me the foundation I needed to make the most of my LL.M. and continue building a better, more thoughtful practice.
While working as a research assistant to Mr. Marcelo Vázquez-Bermudez at the United Nations’ International Law Commission, what insights did you gain that shaped your perspective on international investment law and cross-border legal frameworks?
Assisting Mr. Marcelo Vázquez-Bermudez, the Special Rapporteur for the UN International Law Commission, provided invaluable insights into international law. I contributed to a landmark research project on general principles of law under Article 38(1)(c) of the ICJ Statute, focusing on their application within the Indian legal system as both a domestic and international source of law. This experience deepened my understanding of how legal frameworks are developed and influenced across different jurisdictions.
During the same time, I was selected for a semester-long externship at the Multilateral Investment Guarantee Agency (MIGA), part of the World Bank Group, where I was exposed to investment guarantee transactions in Asia and Africa. To better understand the real world implications of my research project, I also had the opportunity to help organize a discussion event at MIGA with the Special Rapporteur.
All these experiences helped me understand international law and investments from a global, systems-level perspective, something that continues to inform how I support clients navigating cross-border issues today at Team Counsel.
After working with various top-tier law firms and international organizations, what motivated you to establish your own practice? What was your vision behind founding Team Counsel, and how do you see it evolving in the future?
I always knew I wanted to start my own consulting practice, but I thought it would happen much later. Life had other plans.
Just before the pandemic, I was finishing up my LL.M. and preparing to take the New York Bar, with plans to join a global law firm abroad. But COVID changed everything. I returned to India and joined a top law firm, amazing team, big-ticket deals but deep down, something felt off.
Shortly thereafter, I left Big Law, and joined a global venture capital fund, supporting venture growth investments across India, Southeast Asia, and the U.S., which gave me deep insight into cross-border deals and the startup ecosystems around the world. I helped close over 45 investments worth USD 12 billion across India, Southeast Asia, and the U.S within a period of a year or so.
It was exciting work, but I realized I wanted more. I wanted to work with startups and use my experience to help them grow. And, I wanted to build something of my own.
But most importantly, I wanted to disrupt legal for the startup ecosystem with innovative and client centric service models.
That’s how Team Counsel was born from two clear goals:
1. Make world-class legal support accessible to startups without burning their budgets.
2. Build transformative legal solutions that help startups operate more efficiently and grow sustainably.
The startup ecosystem has been so welcoming. Today, we have supported 20+ startups and investors, guiding them from start to finish, and we are just getting started! Most importantly, we have built a passionate team that’s hungry for more wins. Much like in my favorite poem, “The Road Not Taken”choosing the road less traveled and starting Team Counsel has made all the difference for me.
You’ve closed over 80 high stakes deals across multiple jurisdictions. What has been the most complex transaction you’ve worked on, and how did you overcome its challenges?
Over my decade-long career, I have worked on numerous complex high-value M&A, PE, and venture-growth deals, closing almost 90 transactions worth USD 20 billion across 8+ jurisdictions, including India, Southeast Asia, and the U.S.
But honestly, I find the most challenging deals are often the early-stage ones. That’s because founders and investors are new to the game. There’s a lack of clarity, experience, and sometimes, even awareness. A big part of my role is to educate both sides, helping founders understand investor expectations and
guiding investors on what really matters at that stage. It takes patience and step-by-step effort to bring everyone on the same page.
With your membership at New York Bar Examination and experience in cross-border transactions, how does dual qualification enhance your ability to advise clients on international legal matters, especially between India and the U.S.?
While I’m not yet a New York bar qualified Attorney, I am eligible and had planned to take the exam before COVID hit. Travel restrictions delayed everything and I got busy with work, but it’s still on my list, hopefully next year!
That said, my U.S. education and work experience already help me a lot. At Team Counsel, we work with clients in the U.S. and other jurisdictions regularly. Being familiar with both Indian and U.S. legal systems gives me an edge in handling cross-border matters more effectively from understanding regulatory expectations and deal structures to anticipating potential risks across jurisdictions.
There’s real value in being dual-qualified, especially in today’s global economy where startups and investors are constantly crossing borders. It builds trust, adds credibility, and allows me to bridge legal systems with confidence.
You’ve advised across a wide range of sectors, from renewable energy and pharmaceuticals to media and education. When working with startups both domestic and international, what do you see as the major legal challenges they face in navigating regulations, particularly in India?
Startups face a very different landscape compared to large corporates. When I worked with global enterprise clients, they typically had experienced legal teams and established processes in place. But for most startups, especially in India, the reality is quite different, there’s often a lack of awareness about legal obligations, limited access to quality legal support, and no tailored regulatory framework designed specifically for early-stage businesses.
One of the biggest challenges is helping founders recognize that legal compliance isn’t just about avoiding problems, it is a key driver of long-term value. At Team Counsel, we work closely with startups to simplify the complex, break things down into actionable steps, and guide them through building a strong legal foundation. Our focus is on making them investor ready, helping them scale with confidence, and ultimately supporting the creation of sustainable, high impact businesses.
Outside of your legal career, you enjoy reading and spending time with your pet. How do these personal interests help you maintain balance and resilience in such a demanding profession?
I love reading and spending time outdoors with my boy, Rocky. These simple joys help me stay balanced. They allow me to disconnect from the day-to-day rush, clear my head, and come back with a fresh perspective.
In a profession that can be all consuming, it is important to have something that grounds you. For me, these moments are a reminder that there’s more to life than just deadlines and deals and that clarity makes me better at what I do.
What advice would you give to young lawyers and law students aspiring to build an international legal career like yours? Are there any specific resources or habits you’d recommend for staying ahead of the curve in this dynamic field?
As a first-generation lawyer, I started out with no roadmap, just a lot of questions and a strong sense of curiosity. What made the difference was staying committed, being open to learning, and finding mentors who guided me along the way. If you are passionate and ready to put in the work, you absolutely can build a successful international legal career.
My biggest advice is to be proactive, read industry reports, keep up with global legal and business trends, and show up at events that push you out of your comfort zone. Also, the legal profession is evolving rapidly with the rise of AI and tech, so it’s crucial to always plan with a long-term mindset, think five years ahead. And most importantly, don’t be afraid of your weaknesses; if you embrace them, they can become your greatest strengths. That’s where your edge lies.
Your educational background is impressive, spanning from NALSAR to the University of Oxford. Could you share how your journey into law began and how it has shaped your understanding of litigation today?
That’s a rather loaded question, and I’ll try and summarise the last 11 years as best as I can.
I must confess firstly that pursuing law was by no means my profession of choice initially. Back in 2007 I’d graduated from one military institution (the Rashtriya Indian Military College, Dehradun), and was headed to another (the National Defence Academy, Khadakvasla) as an Air Force cadet; I’d always wanted to be a pilot. However, a series of injuries due to active sports prevented me from going forth with that, and left me in the lurch looking for alternatives to pursue a career in.
Thankfully, the first CLAT was held soon after, and the exam itself seemed to be a breeze, so I landed up in NALSAR (which is when my journey in law began). The institution itself is quite phenomenal – at that time NALSAR was an extremely popular law school to be in, and boasted for fantastic faculty, great infrastructure and promised exposure to the very best experiences on offer to a law student in India. Notable faculty for instance were legends of the Bar and academia such as Prof. Vepa P. Sarathi, Prof. Errabi, Prof. Amita Dhanda, Prof. Kalpana Kannabiran, Prof. Sridhar Acharyulu etc. with Dr. Ranbir Singh at the helm – these are folks who really made an impression on a student in their formative years, and their tutelage had tremendous impact on us; so that would be one of the major inputs on my journey in law, being the role model faculty we were fortunate to have at university.
As it turns out, despite not being academically gifted (so to speak), I enjoyed studying law and doing well at certain academic endeavours I pursued. I recall being quite good at research, drafting and some amount of mooting. I also was fairly diligent at studying beyond classroom teaching. These have all stood me in very good stead throughout my practice in law subsequently. I’ve realised now that each of the smaller extra-curricular academic pursuits do an immense amount in influencing ones outlook to practice later in life. Not only did I end up publishing a lot of my research, I also gained a certain amount of confidence at applying what I knew in theory.
One thing I was always clear about through my law school time was that I wanted to be a litigation lawyer; the fancy of transactional law or big law firm money did not allure me. I now know that I was under certain illusions as to the glamour of litigation life, but back then all that I (and some of my close friends) aspired to do was to grow up and argue big constitutional law matters before the constitutional courts. That moment is obviously still yet to come. We were also well aware that the life of a litigator was a long period of drudgery and low pay, an idea that did not bother me. In fact, regular encounters with senior lawyers in college and during internships only fortified our romanticism with litigation.
With that goal in mind, I had planned my time in and after law school quite meticulously. Given my inclination to taxation and fiscal laws, I had decided to keep taxation law as my mainstay and be a jack of other trades as far as commercial law was concerned. My trajectory in practice after college (which I discuss later) followed a carefully curated pattern. I’ve been a bit fortunate to have found the right mentors along the way, and also a bit unfortunate to have not gotten the breaks I wanted at the right time. For instance, I always wanted to join a proper chamber of a senior at the Bar, as opposed to litigation firms; then also, I think having worked at a hardcore filing office had significant learning to offer; but somehow these never really worked out, mostly because of timing. But the takeaway here is perhaps that there is no straightjacket formula to ending up and finding your feet in litigation.
Matriculation at Oxford and my subsequent graduation were only the icing on the cake – while the courses I pursued there were the academic highlight of my time in law, I do not however think that my practice or its trajectory would have been much different had I not gone to Oxford. I’ll address this aspect a bit later.
You hold an MSc in Taxation from Oxford, which complements your legal expertise. How has this interdisciplinary knowledge impacted your approach to complex tax litigation cases?
So to start with, in many ways it was my background in tax law that perhaps influenced how I approached these courses, more than the other way around. By the time I went to Oxford, I had already worked at Nishith Desai Associates, pursued a clerkship on the Tax and Original side of the High Court and later worked at DMD Advocates. In each of these places, I was exposed to the very best that international tax and litigation had to offer. Our training at Nishith Desai was really the building block, and the senior lawyers on the team – Shreya Rao, Rajesh Simhan and Mahesh Kumar etc. ensured that us junior folks were drilled with really solid, fundamental learning in tax law. Shreya has of course been a mentor to me ever since. Then at DMD, right from the leadership and craft of Ms. Anu Dutt, the culture at the firm and down to the kind of matters we worked on, I believe in many ways we were doing the best matters in international tax at that time. Just as an illustration, in a span of 2 years, we did a batch of 148 appeals for GE before the ITAT, PE issued in Formula 1, the Entry Tax matter before 9 Judges of the Supreme Court, and the massive tax case against NDTV in the ITAT and High Court. These all, interestingly, were hotly discussed case studies in my classes at Oxford. So it was quite visceral to be studying at the foremost University in the world, dealing with many cases I’d already worked on!
But your question is extremely pertinent in that, even despite having not preferred a career in transactional law and advisory work, I would perhaps not be half the lawyer I hoped to be, had I not done a lot of this work during my formative years. It is also something I advise a lot of youngsters about. A multi-disciplinary approach to law is of paramount importance (I cannot emphasise this enough). Not only does it make you a drastically better lawyer generally, your approach to legal strategy, the ability to advise clients on several different resources and options available, and also your understanding of the background to various disputes, all of these become much more comprehensive.
This is in many senses, also the benefit of working in a big law firm, as long as it is a cohesive set-up. The strength of having several practitioners under the same roof and being able to draw from their knowledge and expertise is a very strong foundation to work from.
But coming to Oxford a little bit, the takeaway from Oxford itself is so substantial I may not be able to articulate it well. The course I pursued, which was the M.Sc in Taxation, was started only recently by the Law Faculty, and spearheaded by Prof. Judith Freedman and Prof. Philip Baker. These, and the other faculty such as Prof. Richard Collier, Prof. Geln Loutzenheiser, etc., as any tax lawyer will tell you, are individuals who have been at the forefront of international tax law for decades now. My classmates in our small cohort of around 30 students were from every walk of life – there may have been not more than 5-6 lawyers. So our approach to each of our courses was just a fantastic mixed bag of experience and perspective. The learning curve was very steep, and the commercial underpinnings of a highly academic set of courses was my biggest takeaway from it.
To answer your specific question, an interdisciplinary approach to law, and not just tax litigation, is something that has been my strongest craft, so to speak. Firstly, I learnt that having a commercial understanding of a dispute is always crucial; this involves understanding why transactions were structured in a particular way, what the financial and fiscal motivations may have been, as also specific commercial terms agreed. What being at Oxford helped me gain a fantastic understanding of, was the State’s perspective on the imposition and enforcement of fiscal levies themselves. There is additionally the perspective of the businessman, and the finance professional who are being subject to the fiscal framework. When all of this comes together in a single classroom, filled largely with non-lawyers, finance professionals, representatives of the Revenue, etc., your takeaway ends up being very holistic. This is applicable across disciplines, and hardly to just tax litigation.
During your time studying at the University of Oxford, what key differences did you observe between the education system there and your experience at your Indian law college? How did these differences influence your approach to legal education and practice?
Despite that Oxford is perhaps the best University in the world, I’d like to answer this in a way that doesn’t reflect very badly on my time in NALSAR. The key difference really would be the amount we were expected to prep for each class, and what we brought to the table. The class at Oxford was a lot more selective, and my peers were extremely bright professionals, who were all at the forefront of what was happening in tax and finance around the world. In some sense, in a class of 25-30 odd students, we were also representing our countries and its legal systems, and that added some degree of pressure; which is very different from the pressure of an 18-23 year old pursuing an undergraduate law program. But besides that, I think the learning curve was equally steep at both places, and while the faculty at Oxford was truly world class, the faculty at NALSAR at least at my time (and earlier) was quite something.
With significant experience in international tax and cross-border disputes, what new dimensions do you believe tax law practitioners must be aware of in the rapidly globalizing business world?
Tax law is rapidly changing, and in fact I’d mark it out as an area of law that may be the most dynamic of legal disciplines. This is not a recent phenomena, but the past decade has perhaps been more vibrant than previously. As you may be aware, international tax law in India has had a very rewarding, but also a slightly tumultuous trajectory. What perhaps began with the recourse to the now infamous Mauritius route, was later subject to enormous judicial and legislative scrutiny over the years. But developments in international tax have been witnessing a rare coming together of developed and developing nations to jointly evolve a new order of international tax law. The most exciting developments in international tax is ofcourse the OECD’s efforts in the Base Erosion and Profit Shifting (BEPS) Framework. The work on BEPS 2.0 in terms of Pillar 1 and Pillar 2 are quite significant as far as international tax is concerned. Pillar 1 applies largely to reallocate taxable income of large multinationals to market jurisdictions, i.e. where the consumers and users may be situated. This has consequences not just to the effective tax rate, but also in some sense to transfer pricing arrangements. The current rules on these are quite complex, and should be quite an exciting area to study and practice in. Pillar 2 on the other hand deals with the objective of setting down a Global Minimum Taxation of multinational enterprises, so as to abolish double non-taxation of enterprises (i.e. No taxation in the country of source or residence).
On the issue of cross-border disputes, there are some very exciting developments as well; my experience so far has mostly been in strategizing litigations in cross-border scenarios. This can be very interesting as it delves into multi-jurisdictional and multi-forum litigations, and really for deploying strategic litigations to achieve commercial/business objectives. India is a bit late to the party in the sphere of complex commercial litigations, and I feel the legal systems and judicial discourse in other jurisdictions appears to be far more evolved; but this jurisprudence is thankfully moving towards India as well, and courts/tribunals appear to be quick to catch on.
You have worked extensively in domestic and international arbitrations. What are some of the unique challenges and opportunities you see in arbitration, especially with regard to commercial and cross-border disputes?
I am not sure if “opportunities” would be the right word for it, but in the realm of commercial disputes (as including court litigation and arbitration), we do sort of specialise in strategizing and conducting multi-pronged legal proceedings across forums and jurisdictions. This has happened perchance, in the sense that one doesn’t get to pick what matters come to us; but we’ve been fortunate enough to be doing a lot of cross-border multi-forum disputes. In the cross border context in particular, we’re seeing a lot of matters in the nature of shareholder disputes; but that itself is now a very broad category of cases. In particular, these could include disputes between co-founders, founders and institutional investors, acquirers and former promoters, lenders (of convertible debt) and the firms themselves, etc. There is a lot of very interesting work happening in all these spheres.
One component of these tends to be arbitrable disputes, but in the context of tech or IP heavy firms, there are often court focused litigations on intellectual property matters. Then there may be certain recourse before the company courts/tribunals, regulatory proceedings, as well as criminal legal actions (in the genre of white collar crimes). How you deal with each of these, depending on which side of the aisle you’re on, is really quite a creative endeavor and can be very exciting. What is most important is to be steadfast about the interests of your clients, and to not get carried away with the idea of victory. There tend to be few, if not no winners, in such litigations. These may either end up being battles to mitigate damage, or even legal battles of attrition. The objectives will differ from case to case. The problem however, is that these sorts of litigations are very expensive, and therefore the client should have the wherewithal to finance these, and also the stakes should justify engaging in such expansive legal actions.
How does your approach differ when handling cross-border disputes versus domestic litigation?
Almost everything differs across these two contexts. The most important difference in approach is obviously on account of the procedural trappings that the disputes may be subject to (ie. Domestic procedural law versus institutional rules). There are drastically different considerations while strategizing court litigations (in India in particular) versus while dealing with offshore arbitrations or litigations. The factors weighing in on court litigations in India could perhaps demand its own chapter; these would tend to include considerations towards which court’s you can approach, choice of counsel, and really come down to how well you‘ve cracked the system. I use the word “cracked” in the sense of having learnt with time as to how best to approach and conduct a litigation efficiently to achieve your desired results – everything needn’t be contingent on the “merits” of your case. At the end of the day, everyone is at the mercy of the system, and depending on which end of the stick you’ve drawn, you’re either stuck playing defence or offence. Everyone knows for instance that a first movers’ advantage counts for a lot in Indian courts; this is effectively about how well you’ve managed the first legal action(s) so as to gain the initial favourable orders. Once you’ve got those, things are very difficult for the other side to get around. The system is really well suited in that sense to the initial aggressors. Things would perhaps be a bit different in arbitrations, and even there, vary between ad hoc and institutional settings.
But purely in the context of cross-border mandates, choice of law becomes a big question, as that determines the extent and limitations of your own role in the disputes. While we are increasingly doing a lot of offshore disputes, this is only where the mandate involves Indian parties or Indian law (which is rare). Working with offshore/local lawyers is always a very enriching experience with a lot of learning. That is something I look forward to a lot. I would also point out that owing to the typical scale and stakes involved in such matters, it is very difficult and rare to act as sole counsel in such matters; Big teams are very important, and so are the resources available at your disposal to conduct these litigations offshore. But very often, despite typically being an arguing counsel before Indian courts, we act more as attorneys/solicitors in cross-border and offshore work. So there are a lot of such considerations that weigh differently in a domestic versus cross-border context.
Having accumulated a wealth of experience across various legal domains, what do you believe are the key skills young legal professionals need to develop in order to succeed in litigation?
I would barely count myself as successful at this very early stage in my career; however, I think academic grounding is very important. For those who haven’t put in the effort during their law school years, or perhaps even otherwise, putting in the effort to continue learning is quite important. Lawyers, including myself, have often gotten caught up in the “practice” of law, and don’t devote enough attention to focusing on the academic exercise that underpins our practice. So that is definitely a good skill to have.
There are several skills that would be quite obvious, such as speed reading, being able to devote singular attention over hours to reading files, being able to prioritize work that needs attention etc. As and when you grow senior, the requirements of your role tend to evolve, so adapting to that change is also quite important.
I have recently started using some amount of AI for research and have seen what it can be capable of even in terms of drafting etc. That is definitely the future, and learning how to use AI is definitely a skill I would recommend developing. Most skills otherwise are picked up on the job.
Since you were a faculty member at Jindal Global Law School, what differences do you see in students of the current generation compared to students from your time? Has technology led to a lack of reading and research skills, or has it made them better prepared for the legal profession?
Let me begin by pointing out that I’m not really of a different generation, compared to law students today, so to speak. But even so, as they say, the more things change, the more they tend to remain the same. So I haven’t seen too much of a difference in the current generation versus mine, in a broad sense at least. There’s always a certain component of bright, eager to learn students, and those that are either not terribly bright or not very eager to learn. I think the quality of legal education now is definitely way ahead of what it was when we were students. So the average qualitative benchmark of students graduating from law schools today is, I think, quite good. But then there are attitudinal differences my peers and I notice in students/graduates today, which are not very complimentary. I do not want to comment on it much, but I think the willingness to really “slog it out” (so to speak) is much lower in a lot of the graduates we’re seeing today. This would vary across law schools, cities, practice areas etc. and it wouldn’t be fair to paint them all with the same brush.
What’s the one piece of advice or insight that you wish you had known earlier in your career? How can today’s young legal professionals benefit from this knowledge?
I’m very bad at lecturing, but let’s just say that if you’re front-side focused on generally being a good lawyer, the right advice will somehow reach you at the time you need it the most, and are ready for it. I’ve received good advice at various points from several of my mentors. To do justice to this question however, I should perhaps narrate some.
On the slightly funny side, very early at the Bar, one of my mentors made it a point to tell me that I was essentially a “liability” to the team, and that practice was not the same as law school. No matter what you did or achieved in college, when you’re out, you’re at the very bottom of a vast and cavernous system that is extremely demanding. So best to just put your head down, loose the chip on your shoulder, and work.
Sometime later, Justice Shakdher, in whose chamber I worked, while I was leaving, gave me the advice that as a litigation lawyer, I would never be able to choose my work, and that it would be the work that would choose me. That was an uncomfortable thing for me to digest, given that I was a meticulous planner of everything. But I now know that to be very true. He also gave the advice that we must treat our work as our god-given duty – this advice tied in with my existing belief system in many ways, so I was glad that my senior saw fit to pass this value on to me.
With such a demanding career, how do you find time to unwind, and what hobbies or activities help you maintain balance in your personal and professional life?
I’m very actively into sports. While not the most gifted athlete, I enjoy playing a lot of squash, and exert at a very high level towards it. I used to also do a lot of long distance running, but am now nursing a few injuries. I must confess that once every few days, I indulge in a game of Age of Empires on the network.
I also have a very fulfilling role as a dad to an almost 3 year old; so that keeps me occupied plenty. In my life before that, I used to read a tonne of both fiction and non-fiction books. I hope I will get back to those ways soon.
Can you share with us your journey into the legal field, from your education at QueenMary University to your current role as Group General Counsel and Founding Member atVance?
My journey from pursuing LLM from Queen Mary, University of London to my current role has been a testament to perseverance and enthusiasm. As a first-generation lawyer, I embarked on this path driven not only by personal ambition but also by the inspiration of my father, whose own ambition inspired me to have a deep respect for the legal profession.
Studying abroad was a pivotal decision, marking the initial stride towards establishing myself in the corporate and commercial legal fraternity. Since then, my career has been characterized by a diverse array of experiences as an in-house counsel, navigating complexities in the fields of Real Estate, Information Technology & Privacy, Fin-Tech, Digital Payments, Digital Lending, Neo Banking, among others. From the moment I set foot at Queen Mary to the present day, each step of this journey has been marked by growth, learning, and the pursuit of excellence.
The opportunity to collaborate with Vance was not unexpected; rather, it was the culmination of a deliberate partnership with a visionary founder aimed at addressing the challenges of cross border payments and enhancing access to Indian banking and financial services for NRIs. Leading the legal, compliance and regulatory endeavours at a global level, I am privileged to contribute to the establishment of this groundbreaking venture. I am humbled to play a role in shaping the future of banking and financial services on this scale.
Throughout your career, you’ve worked in various capacities within the financial technology sector. What initially drew you to specialize in this industry?
Throughout my career, I’ve involved myself in various roles within the Fin-tech sector. However, it wasn’t until I got the opportunity at PayU Payments, where I stepped into a legal counsel role during the company’s establishment phase as a prominent B2B payments business in India. This pivotal moment ignited my passion and set me on a trajectory of growth within the fintech landscape.
From witnessing the nascent stage of payments in India to contributing to its evolution, my journey has been both exhilarating and transformative. Whether it’s pioneering digital payments at PayU, shaping digital credit strategies at Krazybee, driving the biggest of Indian payments products at NPCI, the umbrella organisation for operating retail payments and settlement systems in India or exploring the endless possibilities within the sector, I’ve found my niche and thrived in it. Fin-tech isn’t just where I work; it’s where I belong, and where I’ve honed my expertise.
Could you elaborate on the challenges you’ve faced navigating the intricate landscapes ofinformation technology, digital payments, and licensing throughout your career?
A lawyer’s life is loaded with countless challenges, a reality I’ve faced firsthand while steering complex areas of Information Technology, Digital Payments, Credit, and Licensing. One particularly notable hurdle has been customizing legal advisory to keep up with the swift pace of technological advancement in this space. With innovations occurring rapidly, it’s imperative to ensure that legal frameworks and policies evolve in tandem, necessitating continual adaptation and innovation.
Additionally, staying abreast of frequent regulatory changes and requirements especially in payments and digital lending has been paramount. The regulatory landscape is constantly evolving, compliance has become non-negotiable, and the regulator appreciates no compromises- I have numerous instances at hand from the industry. It’s essential to remain proactive, continuously monitoring changes, swiftly adjusting strategies and operations to maintain regulatory requirements, compliance and mitigate risks.
Collaborating with business and product teams to evaluate and incubate new payments products has its own complexities. Balancing innovation with regulatory compliance and risk management requires careful navigation. Successfully achieving regulatory approvals often entails extensive coordination, documentation, and engagement with regulatory bodies, adding another layer of challenge. If I talk about structuring deals and negotiating technical agreements in this dynamic environment, it has been daunting as well. We need to strike the right balance between innovation, risk allocation, and legal & compliance demands strategic thinking and adept negotiation skills. Moreover, managing peers amid these challenges requires effective leadership, clear communication, and fostering a culture of adaptability and continuous learning.
Despite these formidable challenges, I’ve approached each hurdle with resilience and a commitment to excellence. By leveraging strategic foresight, interdisciplinary collaboration, and a robust understanding of both legal and technological landscapes, I’ve successfully managed to navigate complexities, while driving innovation, and fostering growth.
As someone with extensive experience in commercial law, what are some key strategiesyou’ve employed when structuring complex business transactions?
It doesn’t sound as simple as this question. There are various stakeholders involved in structuring a commercial transaction depending on its size, however, my priority is to build a clear communication with those stakeholders to outline a transaction’s contours. Thorough due diligence, risk assessment, and mitigation are crucial, along with ensuring compliance with relevant regulatory and tax requirements. Additionally, being a business lawyer, I always consider the commercial viability of the deal and its potential profitability from a business perspective, working closely with my business to align legal strategies with their business goals.
With your background in cross-border payments and global neo banking, how do youapproach managing regulatory challenges in different jurisdictions?
Establishing business in different jurisdictions or dealing with regulators of different jurisdictions I tell you is a very challenging affair. This is something, expertise of which you do not have while bearing limited understanding. There must be a well thought through strategy. I prioritize thorough in-house research to gauge the feasibility of operating within each regulatory landscape. This involves understanding the legal and corporate structure(s) needed, which may vary significantly from one jurisdiction to another. When expertise is lacking, I rely on experienced consultants to guide us through the complexities either with respect to any kind of licensing, structuring, re-structuring, or other requirements. It’s crucial to have the right team in place to manage compliance both domestically and internationally, ensuring adherence to regulatory requirements while minimizing costs and risks. It could be a mix bag of domestic and international personnel.
As the Group General Counsel and Founding Member at Vance, what are your primaryresponsibilities, and how do you ensure legal compliance while fostering strategic growth forthe organization?
I feel my responsibilities extend beyond traditional legal service a General Counsel could render, especially after joining hands with Vance. I am tasked with leading both domestic and international legal, compliance and regulatory initiatives, ensuring that every facet of our operations aligns with the relevant laws and standards. However, my role is not limited to legal here; I also embrace the strategic aspects of business development.
To ensure smooth functioning of my department while fostering strategic growth, I engage deeply with multiple facets of the organization. This involves a collaborative approach with the business, product teams and other relevant stakeholders to navigate complex challenges and identify growth opportunities. By thinking strategically before incubating and executing commercial arrangements, I ensure decisions serve the best interests of the business while maintaining robust compliance.
Key to our success is the establishment and management of competent teams across India and other countries where we operate. This global framework supports our mission to expand as a Neo Bank currently serving more than five countries, with further expansion on the roadmap. Building the right team is crucial, not only for managing our expansive legal framework but also for enabling Vance to grow strategically and sustainably on the international stage.
Throughout your career, you’ve demonstrated a passion for leading legal teams. Whatleadership principles do you prioritize when managing and motivating your team?
Until I received the opportunity to lead legal & compliance at Krazybee, one of the fastestgrowing digital lending organizations in India, I hadn’t led teams throughout my career. Leading a legal team is a position of immense ownership and comes with significant responsibility. Here, I prioritize several key principles, many of which I gleaned from working closely with my previous managers. Firstly, I emphasize the importance of clear communication to ensure everyone comprehends their roles and objectives. Secondly, cultivating a culture of trust and collaboration empowers team members and fosters a sense of value. Additionally, I believe in offering continuous support and mentorship to facilitate professional growth and development. The guiding principle is collective growth and development of the entire team. Lastly, I underscore the significance of adaptability and resilience in navigating challenges and embracing change within the legal landscape.
Considering your wealth of experience, what advice would you offer to fresh graduates aspiring to pursue a career in law, especially within the dynamic landscape of financial technology and business management? I recall there was no mentor or proper guidance available to steer me in the right direction when I was graduating. As I progressed into my graduate years, I learned the intricacies of the legal industry and the life of a corporate lawyer the hard way. My foremost recommendation for fresh graduates is to seek guidance from seasoned lawyers in their vicinity, whether they specialize in litigation or corporate law, to gain insights into the industry and what lies ahead. It’s crucial to carefully consider which area of law they wish to specialize in, as there are various options available. They must engage in multiple internships during their undergraduate years, which is essential, as it prepares them for the intense competition they’ll face upon entering the workforce. Lastly, it’s important not only to focus on Fin-tech (it may be niche now, but may not be in the future) or business management but also to stay updated on the latest developments and rapidly changing technology in any area of law or other fields that find their interest.
Can you share with us what initially sparked your interest in pursuing a career in law, particularly specializing in indirect tax litigation and international trade policies?
My father and his brother both practice as Sales Tax Consultants in the city of Mangalore. Back in the early 2000’s, their work involved a lot of attendant work such as visiting the Sales Tax Department for filing monthly returns and yearly assessments etc. Nothing was online then, so when I was at school, I used to visit them during these rituals to assist. However, it was more for the customary lunch at a hotel that followed.
When I was studying at college for my degree in commerce, I got more involved in the work. This allowed me to get to know about the legal proceedings that follow, such as issuance of proposition notices, appeals and tribunal proceedings etc. For this we would rely on advocates at Bangalore, which sparked my interest in indirect tax litigation and so I ended up studying law.
With your extensive experience in handling cases across various sectors like oil and gas, telecommunication, banking, and more, what motivated you to focus on these specific areas within the legal field?
Taxation is a very niche area of practice. So once you decide to pursue a career in it, you have to deal with a variety of cases relating to different sectors. It also depends on the place where one practices. For example, at Bangalore you may find more service tax litigations because of the place primarily being an IT hub. Whereas, when it comes to excise and customs, it is Mumbai and Gujarat because of the large manufacturing industries, customs ports and corporate offices of leading companies being located here. So bigger cities have their own advantages.
Could you walk us through your journey from your early days as a law student to your current role as an Associate Partner at TLC Legal, one of India’s leading law firms in indirect taxes and international trade policies?
I did my law at SDM Law College, Mangalore. After I completed my law, I joined the law chambers of Mr.K.S.Ravi Shankar, Senior Advocate at Bangalore who practices at the High Court of Karnataka, in the areas of Indirect Taxation.
Then when I moved to Mumbai, I got the opportunity of working as an associate at TLC Legal, which specialises in indirect tax litigation and advisory. Working at TLC Legal has been very fulfilling as I had the opportunity of working on some of the interesting as well as complex cases. I got the opportunity to work with some of the best legal minds of the country.
You’ve had the opportunity to work with esteemed legal practitioners such as Mr. K.S. Ravi Shankar. How did these experiences shape your approach to legal practice and influence your career trajectory?
I had the fortune of working at the law chambers of Mr.K.S.Ravi Shankar, who is not only a distinguished lawyer but also a revered scholar on vedas and other scriptures. He is an exceedingly well read man, bestowed with great skills of advocacy. His chamber had good work in indirect taxation that immensely helped me build my interest in the subject. Working with him taught me how to be disciplined at work (he would begin his day in the office at 7 in the morning!), which to a large extent I try to practice. His one piece of advice to me, which I still vividly remember, is to cultivate the habit of reading, and that I should spend 10% of what I earn on buying books.
As someone who regularly appears before the Supreme Court, High Courts, and Tax Tribunals, what are some of the unique challenges you face in representing clients in complex indirect tax cases?
Taxation as such is not a very interesting subject, and I have been told this by many. It can be humdrum particularly with cases that involve too many numbers. A lawyer needs to sit with the client or his accountant and understand it clearly. This is where knowing a bit of basic accounting and reading financial statements would come in handy.
But the real challenge is presenting the case before a Judge. Some of them are extremely patient, some are quick tempered, some are very vocal – they keep asking questions, and they will not move an inch further till they are satisfied. Therefore, I follow the rule of reading the brief thoroughly from the first page to the last, as you never know how things go on in the Court.
One thing I learnt from my senior Mr.Vipin Jain is to think about how to make the case interesting for a judge. One way of doing this can be by giving real life examples – even abstruse questions can be explained interestingly with simple examples and anecdotes.
Can you share some insights into your approach to drafting appeals, petitions, and providing legal opinions under GST/indirect tax laws? How do you ensure accuracy and effectiveness in your legal arguments?
Drafting is an art and one needs to put in conscious efforts to improve this. My approach has always been not to be too verbose in appeals and petitions, but brief and concise. I don’t find any point in making long written arguments or citing several case laws.
One part which I take utmost care while drafting an appeal or petition is the drafting of synopsis and the dates and events. Synopsis is the soul of any petition or appeal, and sometimes the judges skim through it to understand the case before coming to the Court. Preparing a two or three page succinct synopsis helps organise and put the thoughts onto paper for whatever may be the complexity of the matter. This would also help recollect the matter for when it is revisited after several years down the line.
Each case mainly has one or two arguments on which the entire case hinges, rest are all mainly fillers. So to ensure accuracy and effectiveness in the arguments, I mainly focus on these and try developing it more and in a better way.
With your background in international business, trade, and tax law, how do you stay updated with the evolving landscape of indirect taxes and international trade policies, and how does this knowledge benefit your clients?
Yes, it is important to stay abreast in the legal profession. For this I read mails sent by a few subscriptions which track these developments.
Finally, what advice would you offer to law graduates who aspire to specialize in indirect tax litigation and international trade policies, based on your own experiences and insights gained throughout your career journey?
I always believe in “each to their own”, meaning what worked for me, may not work for others. But since you have asked this, here are a few points that I can think about:
Focus on communicating effectively. Lawyers always communicate, either written or oral. You may know your facts and the law well, but you can’t make an impact unless you are able to communicate effectively. Reading helps with this.
Make use of online resources. Today many courts are live streaming on YouTube. There are other YouTube channels as well, like the Justice Nariman Official Channel, which is immensely resourceful. Listening to these would help understand how great legal minds work.
Can you share with us your journey and how you ended up practicing law, particularly in the areas of Capital Markets, Derivatives, Financial Services & Regulatory, and Payment and Settlement Systems?
Certainly. Given my interest in commerce, business law and financing I pursued a bachelor’s degree in Commerce. My further interest in the field of law led me to pursue a degree of Bachelor of Commerce (BCom) in 2010. I started my professional career as an Article Clerk at Kanga & Co, gaining valuable experience from August 2011 to August 2013 under the guidance of Mr. Dhaval Vussonji and Ms. Prachi Dave. During this time, I honed my legal skills and developed a keen interest in the intricacies of financial law.
You have a specialization in debt issuances and marked-linked debentures. How did you develop an interest in this area of law, and what are some of the notable projects or transactions you’ve worked on?
My specialization in debt issuances and market-linked debentures evolved over the course of my career. As an Associate at VND & Associates (now Dhaval Vussonji & Associates) and later at Juris Corp, I actively engaged in advising clients on debt issuances, which sparked my interest in this niche area.
As someone who regularly advises the International Swaps and Derivatives Association (ISDA) and various clients in the financial industry, could you tell us about the unique challenges and opportunities that arise in the derivatives market?
Advising ISDA and diverse clients in the financial industry has exposed me to the dynamic landscape of the derivatives market. The challenges often stem from the evolving regulatory framework and the need for precise documentation. ISDA being an industry body requires me as a lawyer to think one-step ahead to foresee the practical challenges that may crop up due to the ever changing legal & regulatory landscape of India and accordingly liaising with them, market participants and the respective regulators to ensure a smooth Indian derivatives market.
ISDA has also been integral in getting my name on the international stage as a derivatives lawyer. I recently went to Singapore to deliver a masterclass on Derivatives and it was a learning experience.
Your involvement with the Fixed Income Money Market and Derivatives Association of India (FIMMDA) and the National Stock Exchange of India Limited (NSE) showcases a broad range of experiences. How has working with these organizations contributed to your expertise in the financial services sector?
Working closely with FIMMDA and NSE has been instrumental in broadening my understanding of the financial services sector. These experiences have provided unique insights into listing compliances, platform establishment, and various facets of the financial markets. Collaborating with these organizations has been a cornerstone in developing a holistic approach to financial law.
The Payment and Settlement Systems Practice is an integral part of your work. Could you shed some light on the role of legal professionals in this area and how it impacts the functioning of financial markets?
In the Payment and Settlement Systems Practice, legal professionals play a crucial role in ensuring the smooth functioning of financial markets. Our responsibilities include navigating regulatory requirements, advising on compliance, and addressing legal challenges to maintain the integrity of payment and settlement systems. By doing so, we contribute to the stability and efficiency of the broader financial ecosystem.
You’ve authored several articles and publications related to derivatives and sustainability-linked financial instruments. Can you discuss the importance of sustainability-linked derivatives in today’s financial landscape and their potential impact on green finance?
Authoring articles on sustainability-linked derivatives reflects my commitment to exploring innovative and responsible financial practices. In today’s landscape, sustainability-linked derivatives play a pivotal role in promoting environmentally conscious investments. These instruments not only align with global sustainability goals but also present opportunities for businesses to contribute to green finance, fostering a more sustainable and responsible financial sector.
Juris Corp is considered a premier law firm in the derivatives space, and you head the derivatives practice there. What sets Juris Corp apart, and how do you ensure the highest level of service for your clients?
Juris Corp stands out in the derivatives space due to its unwavering commitment to excellence and deep industry knowledge. Our team’s collective expertise, coupled with a client-centric approach, allows us to provide tailored solutions. We prioritize staying abreast of industry developments, ensuring that our clients receive the highest level of service backed by cutting-edge legal insights.
Dispute resolution is another aspect of your work, particularly concerning potential disputes arising from derivative transactions. What are some of the common challenges you face in resolving such disputes, and how do you approach these complex situations?
Resolving disputes in derivative transactions presents unique challenges, often rooted in complex financial structures and regulatory nuances. We approach these situations with a meticulous strategy, combining legal acumen with a deep understanding of the financial markets. Our goal is to achieve amicable resolutions while safeguarding our clients’ interests and maintaining the integrity of the financial agreements involved.
Throughout your career, you have conducted presentations and seminars on regulatory changes in the Indian derivatives market. Could you share some key insights from these sessions and how these changes affect derivative products?
Conducting presentations on regulatory changes in the Indian derivatives market has been an enriching experience. Key insights revolve around the need for adaptability in response to evolving regulations. Understanding these changes is vital for crafting effective legal strategies, ensuring compliance, and mitigating risks. Derivative products must align with the regulatory landscape to maintain their relevance and integrity in the market.
As a successful partner and expert in your field, what advice would you give to fresh law graduates or aspiring lawyers looking to pursue a career in the areas of Capital Markets, Derivatives, Financial Services & Regulatory, and Payment and Settlement Systems? What key skills and experiences do you think they should focus on developing?
For fresh law graduates aspiring to excel in Capital Markets, Derivatives, Financial Services & Regulatory, and Payment and Settlement Systems, I recommend focusing on a few key aspects. Firstly, build a strong foundation in financial law through continuous learning and staying updated on industry developments. Develop excellent analytical and problem-solving skills, as these areas often involve intricate legal and financial complexities, this will come with reading case laws. Networking and building relationships within the industry are also crucial, as they open doors to valuable opportunities and insights. Finally, cultivate effective communication skills, as conveying complex legal concepts to clients and colleagues is integral to success in these specialized fields.
Can you tell us about your journey into the field of law? How did you end up pursuing a career in law, and what inspired you to choose this path?
I was allegedly a rulebreaker as a child. Therefore, I was repeatedly taught the importance of rules and order. I was keen to learn who makes these rules, and why should I abide by them. This took me to the field of law. I also had the opportunity to often visit my parents’ friend who was a district court judge. She commanded a lot of respect, and that inspired me. More than anything else, I was looking for a field of work where I could do well enough to create my own space in a city of my choice. Law fit the bill.
You’ve had a remarkable 9-year journey at Nishith Desai Associates as a Legal Associate and now as the Leader of the Investment Funds Practice. Could you share some highlights and turning points in your career during this time?
I joined as a disputes intern at NDA in 2013. Incidentally, my desk was in the middle of the Investment Funds team. I got most of the work from this team and I developed a liking for the practice. It was different, it touched upon different legal subjects, and I was keen to learn more about the industry. Finance had always eluded me. This practice area reintroduced me to finance from a legal perspective. The turning point in my career was having to take up a position of leadership quite early due to the dearth of lawyers specialising in this practice area. Under appropriate guidance and encouragement, I have been able to deal with the overwhelming expectations from a leader.
As a seasoned professional in the legal industry, what challenges did you face during your journey, and how did you overcome them?
I prefer a conversation over a squabble. If the other side preferred a squabble, then I often felt withdrawn from the discussion. However, over the years, I have learned that a squabble can be turned into a conversation. It just takes a lot of skill and grace to do so.
In your current role as the Leader of the Investment Funds Practice, what are the key responsibilities and areas of focus?
There are three main focus areas that I try to focus on:
(i) client acquisition and servicing;
(ii) mentoring and bringing up the next league of leaders; and
(iii) continuing self-education and using that to assist policy makers and regulators.
The legal industry is constantly evolving. How do you stay up-to-date with the latest developments and trends in the field of law?
I have subscribed to many newsletters prevalent in the industry, I regularly attend webinars and conferences on topics of interest, we conduct focused research across different platforms to improve specialised knowledge, we write a monthly newsletter ourselves which is well resourced, the entire team brainstorms on every update in law in our practice area and reading the newspaper always helps.
Could you share a memorable or impactful case or project you’ve worked on during your career that left a lasting impression on you?
I worked and led many efforts on the formation, raising and each of the closings of the National Investment and Infrastructure Fund, which is the largest infrastructure fund sponsored by the Government of India (49%). We had the opportunity to negotiate with the most leading sovereign wealth funds across jurisdictions, learn about local laws and restrictions applicable to such investors, their expectations from Indian funds which are sponsored by the Government. We honed our skills to manage multiple investors and conflicting expectations at the same time. We developed endurance to work through late nights and weekends in a manner that no amount of workflow could scare us afterwards. Each document drafted by us underwent many rounds of review by the best law firms across the globe, giving us insights and opportunity to exchange notes across borders. This particular project definitely left a lasting impression on me.
What motivates you to continue pursuing a career in law, and what aspects of your work do you find most fulfilling?
I am good at this, and I enjoy getting better at this. I think I am mostly self-motivated. We assist either fund managers, or fund investors in mobilising capital which is then invested across different businesses, giving rise to employment, innovation, development and economic progress. We play a small but significant role in getting the deal through and that is quite fulfilling.
As a leader in your practice area, how do you maintain a work-life balance and ensure the well-being of your team?
The meaning of ‘work-life balance’ is not universal. It is dynamic and it evolves over time. For me, it becomes easier when I allow some aspects of work-life slip into my non-work life and vice-versa, i.e. integrate the two, rather than making rigid efforts to keep them segregated. I try to remain emotionally connected with my team-members so that they trust me and feel comfortable in confiding in me when things get too overwhelming. I am apologetic if (in rare circumstances) I take up their weekend time. I mostly encourage my team-members to decide timelines rather than dictating timelines unless clients are getting adversely impacted. I try to ensure that my team-members are not bothered with calls and work when they take vacations.
Finally, what advice would you like to give to fresh law graduates who are about to enter the legal profession? What key qualities and skills do you believe are essential for success in this field?
Try not to restrict your wardrobe to black and white. There will be days when you will get to wear colours. Every lawyer is different despite what people may tell you or the jokes you may hear. There are no defined rules to be a ‘good lawyer’ or a ‘bad lawyer’. Try not to put yourselves in boxes, try to explore and innovate, and try to remain keen. You will possibly find it easier to work as a lawyer if you are able to (i) translate your thoughts (and your clients’ thoughts) into appropriate and impactful words, (ii) break sentences or statements down into smaller phrases and make sense out of each phrase independently, (iii) get to a point or bring the other side to a point in an unsuspecting manner; (iv) be tolerant and inclusive, be prepared rather than being shocked at your arguments or points of view being defeated.
Vishrut Jain graduated in 2012 from WBNUJS, Kolkata. He is a Senior Associate in the Banking & Finance team of VDB-Loi a law firm based in Myanmar, with offices in the South East Asian region. Prior to this he has worked as an in-house counsel, first as a Manager with ICICI Bank, then as a Senior Manager with Tata Capital and after that as an Assistant Vice President with Yes Bank. He is also a designated advocate of the Bombay High Court.
In this interview we speak to him about:
His experience in the banking sector and the banking regime in India
His experience thus far in the legal field
WHAT WOULD YOU LIKE TO SAY TO OUR READERS BY WAY OF INTRODUCTION?
Growing up, I was always surrounded by law books as I am a fourth generation lawyer. In school, I was a voracious reader and enjoyed participating in debates and theatre. I would describe myself as having a gregarious personality and a curious outlook to life, therefore I like meeting new people and learning new things.
WHAT MOTIVATED YOU TO TAKE UP LAW AS YOUR CHOICE OF CAREER?
As I mentioned, law is in my blood, so to speak. Having said that, I was never forced to make it my career choice, rather I gravitated towards it organically. I was really impressed by the respect that the legal profession commanded and the fact that it was really about helping people in their time of distress. This is why it is called a noble profession.
TELL US A BIT ABOUT YOUR TIME STUDYING LAW AT NUJS.
I am proud to say I am an alumni of NUJS. It is a fine institution with an excellent faculty and one whose students have gone on to achieve great things in life. In college I was a member of the literary and debating society and headed the society for advancement of criminal justice and also the magazine committee. I also took active part in moot courts, MUNs and the cultural festivals. The learnings I received, both inside and outside the classroom, the life experiences I had and the friendships I made — these will stay with me for life. I do want to make a point here though. College life comes with it many challenges and everything is not always smooth sailing. It is in these difficult times that one has to carry on and hope that things will work out. And most times, they do.
COULD YOU TELL US ABOUT THE INTERNSHIPS YOU TOOK UP, AND WHAT YOU LEARNT FROM THOSE EXPERIENCES?
As is the norm, my first internship was with an NGO, followed by court internships (district courts in Delhi, Delhi High Court and the Supreme Court) as well as a judicial clerkship. Thereafter I interned in law firms such as AZB & Partners and Khaitan & Co. While academic learning is essential, there is no substitute for practical experience and I learnt the practical aspects of being a lawyer during these internships.
WHAT ADVICE WOULD YOU GIVE STUDENTS IN AVOIDING A DECISION PARALYSIS WHEN MAKING A CAREER CHOICE?
A decision paralysis is actually a blessing, since it is caused by having an abundance of choices. Ultimately, it comes down to what you enjoy doing. If you enjoy being in a court setting, and do not mind waiting a few years before raking in the big bucks, then a career in litigation may be for you. If you prefer the corporate lifestyle with the glamour of closing deals, then you may consider a law firm or an in-house role. The beauty of law school is that it opens up the doors to a variety of options – graduates have also chosen to join the civil services, judicial services, teaching profession and even politics.
TELL US ABOUT YOUR EARLY PROFESSIONAL EXPERIENCES AT ICICI BANK LIMITED.
I was fortunate to get an opportunity to start my career with ICICI Bank. The legal team at ICICI is especially renowned for building a strong foundation in its fresh recruits. I gained transactional knowledge and learnt the intricacies of the banking sector during my time there.
WHAT WAS THE TRANSITION LIKE FROM LAW STUDENT TO A LAWYER?
Every student finds it intimidating when thinking about the shift from law student to lawyer and I was no exception. Three things helped make the transition smoother – the training I received in law school, self-discipline along with self-motivation and the guidance from my senior colleagues.
HOW IMPORTANT IS IT TO HAVE A MENTOR?
It is not only important, but absolutely essential to have a mentor. In fact, I would say not only one, you must have as many mentors as you possibly can. Mr. Edwin Vanderbruggen, Ms. Jean Loi, Mr. Jeffrey Martin, Mr. Nishant Choudhary, Mr. Arun Khanna, Mr. Kumar Medhavi, Mr. Raunaq Baid, Ms. Leena Chacko, Ms. Sarita Kamath, Ms. Nitu Agarwal and Mr. Sanjay Nambiar have guided me along my path.
HOW DID YOU COME TO WORK AT TATA CAPITAL FINANCIAL SERVICES LIMITED AND WHAT WAS YOUR EXPERIENCE LIKE?
Having worked in a bank, I wanted to gain experience working in an NBFC and this was an ideal opportunity. I worked closely with various stakeholders including other creditors, multiple borrowers, business teams and law firms, to build common ground and resolve legal and commercial issues to ensure that a deal goes through. At this time SARFAESI also became applicable to NBFCs and I helped revise the debt recovery policy of the organisation. I find the NBFC space to be an interesting sector with its own unique challenges.
HOW WAS YOUR EXPERIENCE WORKING AT YES BANK LIMITED?
YES Bank is the fastest growing organisation in the banking sector and the first greenfield bank to be licensed by the RBI. I was involved in a variety of transactions, including GIFT City funding and Masala Bonds. The experience I gained there is invaluable.
WHAT IS IT LIKE TO WORK IN MYANMAR? WHY DID YOU MAKE THE SHIFT?
It is an exciting place to be in since the country has only very recently opened up its economy. There are new projects coming in every day with foreign investors, and the legal regime is being overhauled as well. So, I am getting the opportunity to learn a lot and, at the same time, make a meaningful contribution to the progress and development of the country.
ON WHAT PARAMETERS DO YOU CHOOSE THE PROJECTS YOU WORK ON?
First, as expected, I work on the projects I have been assigned, which consist of a variety of transactions, including project finance, structured finance and debt recovery. Beyond this, I choose to work on projects which are somewhat new and off the beaten track. For example, in Myanmar I have worked on a World Bank project for the restructuring of state owned banks and advised the government on the drafting of housing laws. I have also made presentations on the new company law, investment law, insurance law and condominium law. I advised a foreign airline company on market entry into the aviation sector.
COULD YOU TAKE US THROUGH A TYPICAL WORKING DAY AT YOUR OFFICE?
Typically, a working day would see me handling multiple transactions at a time, meeting with clients and, time permitting, work on drafting a memo on a new law or a legal update.
WHAT BOOKS HAVE YOU READ WOULD YOU SAY HAVE PLAYED AN INTEGRAL ROLE IN SHAPING YOUR LEGAL PHILOSOPHY?
Three that immediately come to mind are Before Memory Fades by Fali Nariman,Roses in December by Justice M.C. Chagla and On Balance by Leila Seth. These autobiographies of renowned jurists have greatly influenced my thought processes.
WHAT ARE THE KEY ATTRIBUTES THAT ONE MUST DEVELOP IN ORDER TO EXCEL IN THIS INDUSTRY?
A person who reads a lot is bound to excel in this industry. Hard work and discipline are a must. It is important to enjoy what you do, since that keeps you motivated. And finally and most importantly, the key to success lies in one word – practice.
HOW DO YOU MANAGE YOUR TIME BETWEEN YOUR PROFESSIONAL AND PERSONAL INTERESTS?
Work-life balance is important to avoid getting burnt-out. I enjoy traveling, reading, biking, trekking, swimming and spending time with my pets.
HOW DO YOU KEEP YOURSELF UPDATED ABOUT THE LATEST DEVELOPMENTS IN THE LAW?
I feel the best way of learning is by doing. If I hear about some new developments in the law, I try to write about it. We regularly hold presentations and circulate a legal newsletter. External sources such as legal websites (Bar & Bench, Legally India) and newsletters from other organisations are also a useful source of information.
WHAT ADVICE WOULD YOU LIKE TO GIVE OUR READERS, WHO ARE MOSTLY LAW STUDENTS AND YOUNG LAWYERS?
To law students I would say, even if you decide not to become a lawyer, five years in law school teaches you how to think. This will hold you in good stead wherever you go. To young lawyers I would say play the long game. Law is truly a jealous mistress, but if you serve her well, she will take you places.
Rajesh Sharma passed out as a Bachelor of Commerce from Shaheed Bhagat Singh College, the University of Delhi in 1990. After that, he pursued LLB from the University of Delhi and graduated by 1993. Besides LLB, he also pursued Company Secretary from Institute of Company Secretary of India (ICSI) and Cost & Management Accountants from Institute of Cost and Works Accountants of India (ICWAI) and finished these professional courses in 1993.
With his qualifications in the realm of law, finance and accounting, he started his versatile work life full of enviable achievements. He started his professional career as Manager – Merchant Banking with Category-1 Merchant Banker, collaborated with the manufacturing company and IT companies before joined as the Founder Members of Singhania and Partners LLP. Afterwards, he was the Head of Finance, Accounts & Legal Department of Global Healthline Private Limited – 98.4, one of the best retail pharmacy chains in North India. He played major role at Barista Coffee Company Limited during his long tenure from 2006 to 2012 as a Chief Finance Officer, wherein he was instrumental not only in setting up all systems and processes for nationwide coffee chain, implemented SAP for retail but he was also key member to get Barista acquired by LAVAZZA, Italian Coffee player. Later, he served as a Group CFO at Carnation Auto India Private Limited; wherein he was instrumental for equity and debt fund raising for setting up multi-brand automobile workshops and used car business. He was Partner with Rajani Singhania & Partners, an international Law Firm. Presently he is Director, Fashion TV Hospitality. He founded Juris NextGen LLP and Affari Consulting, Inc. in 2010 and 2011, respectively.
Finally, being an emerging entrepreneur, he founded LetsComply.com, which is a technology driven platform in India to provide world-class, affordable and convenient professional services relating to legal, finance & taxation at one click under the guidance of an experienced team of professionals, whose knowledge & credentials are proven.
An independent entrepreneur with a string of achievements at a very young age, Rajesh Sharma talks about his thoughts, ideas, experiences and advice to young entrepreneurs and students of law and CA.
In this interview, we cover his academic and professional journey, while focusing on:
The combination of his qualification in B.Com, LL.B, C.S. and CMA.
Varied work experience as a CFO, Founder Members and Director of various companies.
Part of Startups, provided Legal, Finance & Taxation support to create systems and processes and helped them to raise funds and now providing mentorship to various startups directly as well as through various incubation centres.
How would you introduce yourself to our readers? Please tell us about your pre-college days.
I belong to a very middle class & humble family. In spite of not been able to get the education from Big B-Schools, it is the learning by experience and connectivity with grass-roots for work with qualitative education; I could able to achieve this position.
What plans did you have for your future? What inspired you to embark on this entrepreneurial journey?
I feel blessed and fortunate that in spite of limited resources, I find myself at the pinnacle of my career by achieving and delivering good as a Legal & Finance professional. Now, I think this is the time to give back what I have achieved throughout my entire life and career. I got myself associated with a couple of incubation centres, NGOs and other bodies wherein I provide my services as Mentor to the new entrepreneur for their entrepreneurship journey. India is providing an excellent environment for startups, enormous options and opportunities available to the young entrepreneurs, and hence, I am also contributing to my best.
How important is it for a law firm partner to be good at business development, or are great lawyering skills enough to become a partner? What skills or qualities distinguish the people who become partner from those who don’t?
Being an entrepreneur, it is not necessary to be a good worker, he/she has to be a good leader at the same point in time. While he/she should be able to understand and manage with expertise, but should be able to manage a good team as well.
Having done B.Com, what motivated you to choose law along with CS and CMA as a career?
Though it is obvious, if you want any professional degree beyond graduation. Since I had interest both in Legal & Finance domain, therefore I opted for both courses (also since not having proper guidance, I chose two courses to have backup, if I could not make one☺)
What challenges did you face while serving as a CFO at several companies? How did you overcome those challenges?
Challenges are of multiple kinds, being cost controller and always pushing for implementation of system & process; CFO faces challenges from external as well as internal members of your own organization. No one like to listen no for the money and everybody realizes in the last working hour, therefore, to push your own team members to go to the system and processes, you actually develop negative relationship with your peer group but once you explain and help them to implement these methods, they like and start implementing these processes.
You’re the Founder Director of LetsComply.com. Please tell us about LetsComply.com.
LetsComply is the only technology driven platform in India to provide world-class, convenient and affordable professional services relating to legal, finance & taxation at one click. LetsComply provides services under the guidance of an experienced team of professionals, whose unimpeachable expertise, backed by proven credentials, needs no emphasis.
In pursuance of our humble resolve to serve, we have always looked for the ways and means to make it easier for the entrepreneurs and corporate establishments to function better, and we realized that since the world is progressing and taking online route to grow and expand, it would go a long way if we could provide Legal, Financial & Taxation services in a structured fashion with the assistance of a team of experts without making it too expensive or inconvenient. That’s how the idea of LetsComply germinated.
We, at LetsComply, are committed to help entrepreneurs and business owners to start, manage and grow their businesses by taking care of the legal, financial & taxation side of the business so as to allow them to focus on innovation and expansion without having to fret over compliance issues, which certainly matter a great deal and can’t be left unattended.
We aim to be a partner in the entire business lifecycle at all stages of the entrepreneurship — Startup, Growth, Acceleration & Progression Stage — to make sure that the businesses do not fall back on compliances and grow manifold. In today’s Digital world, we bring you the concept of Virtual Intelligence by way of Virtual CFO (vCFO) and Virtual General Counsel services to enable accelerated growth to your business. We are a team of experienced Chartered Accountants, Company Secretaries, Cost Accountants, Corporate Lawyers, Management Graduates, IP Attorneys and Technologists ready to assist you at all times.
I believe that today when the world is moving towards a higher technological and economic order, allowing oneself to be bogged down by various mandatory compliances is a waste of precious time and energy. It cannot be ignored that the statutory compliances have a very significant role to play in sustaining the business environment conducive to fair competition and commercial growth. Therefore, it is essential to be cautious about the compliance of various statutes at the initial stage itself to not only avoid later complications and harassment but also to contribute to the sustenance of a healthy business ecosystem. And to keep you comfortable with all the compliances, the professionals at LetsComply are always ready to extend any and every assistance that you might require in this regard.
How do you plan to expand LetsComply.com regarding operations, infrastructure, as well as attracting more investments? Can we expect a mobile app in forthcoming time?
We have just started and thrilled with the response we are getting from our users. Therefore, we have preponed our plans for expansion. Operationally, our offerings are quite wide, but we need to create the infrastructure to execute and deliver that. We are working not only to create and set up additional office space but also developing technology team as well. Though for operations, we may not need investments but to expand rapidly and to bring technology and marketing we would need investments. We are not aggressively losing for funding unless we get right partner. Yes, you can certainly expect mobile app.
You have a vital role in several companies by providing them a tremendous boost in their business. What are the key areas a Startup needs to focus on?
The major need for any startup is to focus on execution and have the right partner in place. They should focus on their core activities without losing any attention.
As you have recently addressed a conference on ESOP in Amity Innovation Incubator, please tell us how does ESOP work as a good tool for startups?
ESOP is genuinely a very tool to attract & retain the right talent. You can attract talent with entrepreneurship mindset to grow fast.
How important would you say are business development skills at such higher roles in a corporate law firm?
Growth is never ending. One should always be hungry for growth so as Business Development skills are. The leader has to lead by examples, and he should always be upfront about facing challenges. Unless the Leader fights from the front, he cannot ask his army to step forward on the battle ground.
Lastly, what would be your advice to students and young entrepreneurs reading this interview?
Life moves forward like a “Business Cycle”, wherein phases such as ‘Peak’ and ‘Trough’ are ubiquitous. One needs to establish one’s stand at those stages. If he/she is tangled in the Trough Phase, there is nothing to blame upon. Be focused, there is no shortcut to success. Efforts never go waste. If everything seems to be on his/her side during the Peak Phase, there is nothing to claim upon. Keep your thirst for growth alive and continue to move forward with the same.
Appanna Poonacha graduated in law from University Law College in 2006. Right after the completion of his graduation he joined Manthan Legal. After working at Manthan for almost six years, in 2012 he started working in ISGN, Bangalore. At present he is working as the Senior Manager – Legal of Ocwen Financial Corporation.
In this interview we talk about –
His journey through years of law school.
His work experience at Manthal Legal and ISGN, Bangalore.
His role of work at Ocwen Financial Corp.
Pursing Masters in Business Laws (MBL) program from NLSIU, Bangalore.
Certificate courses on banking and financial services
Please introduce yourself to our readers. Where did you grow up and complete your initial education? How did you decide to take up law?
I am Appanna Poonacha. I am a Bangalore based corporate lawyer. I currently work with Ocwen Financial Corp. as a Senior Manager – Legal. In this role I am heading the company’s legal contracts functionality and oversee all commercial transactions at Ocwen’s India offices. I was born into a family of lawyers at Coorg, a place which is popular for its coffee, spices and picturesque landscape. I grew up watching my dad practicing law. I completed my schooling at Coorg and then pursued my Pre-University at St. Joseph’s Arts & Science College, Bangalore. I graduated in Law from University Law College in 2006.
How was your law school experience? What activities were you involved in law school?
Law school curriculum offers exposure to various subjects in law. This is the first step towards understanding each subject in depth. Moot courts and internships churn you towards the practical side of law practice. I actively participated in these activities which provided exposure to various challenges you come across as a lawyer. You also build skills related to leadership, teamwork and conflict management.
Upon graduating, you started working at Manthan Legal. What exactly does the company do, and what did your work profile involve?
Soon after graduation, I got an opportunity to work with Manthan Legal, an LPO which then specialized in providing litigation services to law firms in the United States. Joining an LPO back then was like exploring a ‘road less travelled’. There weren’t many players in this field. Manthan gave a platform for me to work with attorneys in a global set up. This was my first stint in a corporate firm. Here I successfully managed revenue portfolios close to 1Million USD, leading a large team of attorneys catering to these law firm clientele. I was responsible for delivery operations, accounts’ management, client relationship management, business development and growth strategy of the BU.
In 2012, you started working at ISGN, Bangalore. What did your work at ISGN consist of?
After 6 years of working at Manthan, I got an opportunity to work with ISGN as an in house counsel. ISGN is a provider of mortgage technology and services for lenders, brokers and servicers in the US Mortgage industry. I was primarily responsible to oversee litigation & contracts for company’s regional office at Bangalore.
Currently, you are Senior Manager at Ocwen Financial Corporation. What do your responsibilities include? What does an average day of work at Ocwen look like, for you?
Ocwen is one of the largest providers of residential and commercial mortgage loan servicing, special servicing and asset management services in the United States. I am currently heading the Contracts team at Ocwen’s offshore facility in India. On a normal working day, my work involves liaising with internal teams, negotiations with clients and assisting the business with legal support in contracts.
What do you look for in potential candidates while recruiting them? Please describe the management and HR policies that Ocwen follows?
For me a potential candidate shall possess high values of work ethic, a drive to achieve and willingness to learn. Knowledge and skills are personal assets which qualifies an individual to grab opportunities. Ocwen is a workplace that believes in Customer Centric Quality, Inclusive Meritocracy, People, Integrity and Teamwork.
Do you agree that law firm atmosphere is more competitive and challenging? Has your work been an exception to this notion?
I would not buy that thought. Every profession has its own challenges. In today’s global environment, it is unfair to make comparisons.
What are the essential requirements that a law student must fulfil in order to pursue a career in financial services? Do you think additional degrees like CA or CS help in this regard?
Every day is a learning opportunity. There is no one success formula to be successful professional in any industry. Knowledge that you gain as a student, as a young professional will contribute towards personal/professional growth and success in your career. Additional knowledge and skills are always an added advantage.
Has the Masters in Business Laws (MBL) program from NLSIU, Bangalore helped enhance your skills and abilities in a professional capacity?
Absolutely! Knowledge in any form has no boundaries or limitation. I was privileged to get enrolled for MBL from NLSIU. It provided me access to some of the best legal academicians and resources of law in this country. The program itself was targeted to corporate professionals.
How did completing a few certificate courses in banking and financial services help?
Financial Industry at the United States is highly regulated. These certificate courses helped me to understand the various laws related to compliance in the day to day functioning of these corporations.
Lastly, what is your plan for the future? What advice would you give law students wishing to pursue a career in financial services?
My goal is to be a General Counsel of a large multi-national corporation. My sincere advice to law students is to utilize the various opportunities provided to them during their law school tenure, dedicate your time to gain knowledge and skillsets. Always aim for the sky!
Somasekhar Sundaresan graduated in B.Com and then chose to study LL.B from GLC, Mumbai. He graduated in Law in 1996. He joined Times of India as an Assistant Editor in the Business Editorial section as a law student and had continued his work there for two and half years after graduation.
With his experience in Journalism he moved on to the practice of law. His legal career began after joining work under Berjis Desai who was then a founding partner of Udwadia, Udeshi & Berjis. He worked at UUB as a partner and then moved on to his current role at J Sagar Associates, as their practice at UUB got merged with JSA.
He started work as a port sector lawyer and later built up his practice in Securities Law and Financial Sector Regulatory at J. Sagar. It has been almost twelve illustrious years of his practice at J. Sagar, we have taken this opportunity to talk about a few very pertinent questions about the law and legal practice from his experience.
We ask him about his:
Law school journey through GLC, Mumbai.
Work with Times of India and transformation from being journalist to a lawyer
Years of work experience in transaction, securities and the financial sector
Work at UUB and JSA as a partner and a core practitioner.
Necessary skills of a lawyer which can transform an Associate into a Partner
Tell us a bit about your pre-college life as well as educational background. Did you have lawyers in your family?
I have a Bachelor’s degree in Commerce, majoring in accountancy. I am a first generation lawyer. My father was a communications professional in the Tata Group while my mother is a major in English literature and a home-maker. I did not have other lawyers in my family.
How did you decide to study law?
I enrolled to study law because that is something I believe every human being should do. For me, the study of law was not really driven by a choice of career. Each one of us should be fully conversant with the rules of life, which is what law is. I got into journalism within months of enrolling for law, and thereafter my study of law was driven by the need to be a better-informed-and-more-legally-aware journalist. Over time, when things changed in journalism, I wanted to test my professional skills before it got too late. I thought I could always go back if the legal practice did not turn out to be good for me. I was lucky to meet the right person at the right time – Berjis Desai, now the Managing Partner of JSA. He is an extraordinary mentor, nurturer of human values and an open-minded leader who can promote, spawn and manage multiple lawyers without the slightest tinge of insecurity. His acceptance of my proposal to try my hand at law, and entrusting me with opportunities, was a motivating factor too, particularly when I was a complete stranger to the profession and to its noted and reputed members.
Please share your law school experience at GLC, Mumbai. What do you think law schools, in general, can do to increase career-readiness among law students?
GLC is an excellent institution and has given birth to many notable jurists who have served India’s legal system well. This ranges from the likes of Dr. B.R. Ambedkar to Mr. N.A. Palkhivala, and then to more recent alumni who sit or have sat on benches of many a high court and the Supreme Court of India. There was a sense of awe about the heritage when one walked into the college portals – to see Dr. Ambedkar’s name in the list of principals. GLC has had its challenges, of being a state-owned institution but some motivated faculty members and the students of the college keep its flag flying.
When I studied law, a new national law school had been set up in Bangalore, and it had gained a strong reputation for its teaching infrastructure and the scale of its campus.
GLC had two batches – one that would start very early in the morning until about 9:30 am and another that would start then and go on until a little around noon. Studying jurisprudential concepts so early in the morning, participating in moot courts, class debates and studying the library, marked the student life in GLC. I was part of the Legal Aid Clinic, and exposure to poor people without legal aid was an eye-opener component of the training.
Study of law in Mumbai could be very solution-driven with pre-digested examination-oriented tools such as “Three Test Papers” and law summaries published in “Jhabvala” editions being in vogue. GLC was pretty much accepting of all – those who would choose these tools to getting past exams; and equally, those who would want to sit in the library and pull out case law and pore over treatises and come up with studied propositions.
I think law schools today are already very “career-oriented”. The success of a law school is determined by the placement of its students in institutional employers or law firms. Some Vice Chancellors are focussed on getting star placements for their students and seem focussed on gaming the recruitment system. The relatively expensive fee for studying law drives students towards being focussed on money as a driver of career choices. The good students who get good placements in good firms and in institutional employers such as banks that pay large remuneration, are therefore becoming typical employees doing a day job that helps recover the considerable expense of getting educated.
The practice of law is now less of a profession and more of a day job. Therefore, the law course resembles an MBA in more ways than one.
I would, therefore, say law schools have to make some interventions to nudge the student’s mind slightly away from single-minded career focus.
Law schools also need to engage with law firms and work out a reasonable institutionalised means of providing internships and practical training to students from varying backgrounds. It pains me to see the old-boy-network ruling the roost in internships now, just the way it did for the law as a career in the 1990s. Today, the entire process is very unscientific. Students are busy picking up internships with two or more firms in every vacation, gathering names of multiple law firms on their CV without any reasonable or realistic learning in that short time. For law firms too, such internships mean nothing, and truly the students gain nothing concrete spending just a few weeks in one firm. This clearly is an area that the profession needs to work on to improve matters for the state of the ecosystem.
What were the biggest hurdles and challenges in your legal career in the first few years of graduation? How different would you say it was from those who had graduated a decade earlier?
For about two and half years after I graduated, I continued working as a journalist. I made the shift late. This came with its package of challenges and hurdles. When I began, I had not truly spent a single day in a law firm even as an intern. Every challenge pushes one to realise one’s own inner strengths and helps in gaining confidence. I read old files and opinions voraciously. I read different types of agreements in varying situations.
The Internet had become more widely available by then, and one could read agreements from across the world that were publicly filed with regulatory agencies. There are websites that provide so many precedents of real documents that have actually been executed by real parties in real-life situations. Therefore, the challenges were lower than what lawyers, say five to ten years elder to me would have faced when they had graduated.
Please tell us about the transition from working as an Assistant Editor at The Times of India to working as a lawyer.
The transition was tough and fun all at once. As a journalist, I used to focus on breach of trust by human beings, harming other human beings and the rest of society. The healthy scepticism expected of journalists played a major role in moulding my psyche, and I would treat everyone with distrust. Moving to practise law in real life taught me that one must presume bona fides in the conduct of other human beings. I realised that commerce can only occur when there is trust in one another, no matter how well one drafts the agreements that one signs. Contrary to popular belief about law and lawyers, real-life practice of law exposed me to a different dimension of human behaviour and I realised how truly trusting one has to be of others, and indeed be trustworthy, to be able to do well in the world of commerce. Accepting and acknowledging the pain of the counterparty is the only way one can bring about a reasonable bargain and balance of rights and obligations in transactions one handles as a lawyer.
On the personal front, being an Assistant Editor in one of India’s largest newspapers brought with it a considerable reputation, recognition, and even fearsomeness. Chucking it all up overnight to start from scratch in a new profession required one to bring to bear one’s humility and abandonment of some delusions of grandeur that a powerful position tends to bring into one’s character. The transition was also eased by the fact that my “beat” as a journalist had been securities regulations. I had spent a lot of time and energy in understanding this area of law even as a journalist. Seeing the real impact of these regulations on businesses from close quarters as a journalist helped the transition to be a smooth one.
What were your responsibilities at Udwadia, Udeshi & Berjis? How did you move on to J. Sagar Associates later on?
(Somasekhar worked at Udwadia, Udeshi & Berjis for the first four years of his legal career before joining J. Sagar Associates.)
I had joined Berjis Desai who was one of the founders of UUB. He had told me that I should absorb as much as possible in my initial time and soon I would sink or swim along with my clients. He used to read all the drafts of the documents I initially wrote in that phase of my career. I learnt a lot from his revisions and corrections. He had his own style of handling inter-personal conflicts in aspirations among team members. Studying how he resolved them or even watched as they resolved themselves, helped me learn how to appreciate conflicting aspirations of other people.
I began as a port sector lawyer and did a lot of work on container terminals managed by P&O Ports, a smart and commercially-savvy private ports operator led by an aggressive business leader called Captain Jimmy Sarbh. I learnt enormously from this relationship and it helped build my confidence. While I was earning my bread and butter from port-sector work, I also got many opportunities to represent clients in relation to securities laws, with appearances before the Securities and Exchange Board of India led by the then Chairman D.R. Mehta, and before the Securities Appellate Tribunal, then presided over by Mr. C. Achuthan, a remarkable judge. Each of these individuals was as compassionate as strict, and their treatment of cases I represented taught me a lot. My first very own client was the National Securities Depository Ltd., whose Managing Director C.B. Bhave, I had interacted a lot with as a journalist when he had been Senior Executive Director in SEBI. He reposed confidence and trust in me and encouraged me to focus on securities laws. He gave me my first “own” assignment, indeed trusting the firm I had joined, and me to do justice to his work.
Over time, I got to build up the securities law practice thanks to the operational freedom that Berjis gave me. In 2002, Berjis met Jyoti Sagar of J. Sagar Associates. Their values and culture resonated so well that they decided to merge their practices. We were being wooed by other peer firms too, but the value fitment with JSA was wonderful, and remains so till date. Our team led by Berjis moved our practice into JSA, which gave us a national platform. At that time, JSA was present in Delhi and Bangalore, with a fledgling presence in Mumbai. We got a national platform to build on, and Jyoti, another exceptional human being, chaired the firm as a Founder while Berjis became the Managing Partner of the merged practice. Since then, it has been a long journey at JSA, a truly unique professional Indian law firm that has built and nurtured itself on certain core inner strengths to meet the typical challenges that any Indian law firm would face.
What, according to you, are the skills required of an advocate aspiring to build a successful career in corporate law? How do we boost the faith clients keep on us?
The first and foremost is to appreciate that the client is at the core of the practice. All that we do is linked to the existence of the client. Without the client, there is no practice possible, even in hard-core non-commercial litigation. Every lawyer should internalize the principle that the profession is not about himself but about the client. Yet, this does not mean pleasing the client against the client’s interests. This is a profession where you are paid to watch out for the client and tell him that he is wrong. Building this strength and the capacity to resist being a yes-man is the second critical skill that one has to develop. Third, it is important to build a pleasant and firm approach to negotiation. Be it litigation practice of transactional practice, being pleasant to other lawyers both within your firm and to those doing their job for your client’s counterparty, is a very important skill for success in law. When clients and counterparties see that you have a method to your approach and that you are not wasting time trying to win brownie points, they will enable you to succeed.
When you see that a candidate you are considering to hire, is good at mooting, debating and has a few publications, how does it influence your decision?
These are important skills because they would help me determine if the candidate is articulate, figure out how he thinks and what measure of professional circumspection he is able to bring to bear.
How much noteworthy would you say CGPA is? Can work experience replace grades? Would you consider people who have worked efficiently but had a few repeat papers?
Grades are merely a screening tool for entry into the profession. At JSA, we have never been big recruiters on campus in any case. To me, nothing can replace real work experience. One knows of academic toppers who are bad practitioners, and equally, of lawyers with unspectacular academic credentials having built enormous professional skills. This is not to say that those with academic proficiency are necessarily misfits for a good practice. One also knows of some delightfully academically-proficient lawyers, who are extremely successful and effective practitioners. If you are really good at your work, over time, it would show. After five to seven years in the profession, whether you had had a few repeat papers when you were in school would be irrelevant. Although, I must caution that the profession is headed in a direction that getting a good break into a career path would get increasingly difficult if you have repeat papers on the CV.
What are the skills that you look for when you hire lawyers under you? How do you reckon that law students should develop these skills?
Apart from looking for the skills that I say above that lawyers need to have to succeed, I would really look for comprehension of core issues that are in vogue and the ability to connect the dots across different segments of laws and across practical factual realities. This is easier said than done. However, what I really look for is a strong emotional quotient. A lawyer is only as good as his emotional maturity. The intelligence quotient and intellectual capacity is to be taken for granted. The most intelligent lawyer who cannot handle others with compassion is of no value to me. Students should develop these skills by simply mingling a lot more with students from completely variant backgrounds and classes of society on campus. Travel and meeting people from around the globe is a critical contributor to emotional maturity.
When you join a law firm, you earn a lot of money to enable travel. Whether you blow up your money over drinks every weekend or save something wisely to fund travel, is a matter of choice. When you meet people of varying background, you realise the commonality of dreams across humankind, and it will help break down prejudices. The alternative to travel is reading. Reading what others write exposes you to the same experience, and you gain from the story-telling by writers and are able to picture other people’s stories and relate them to your own. I would recommend a self-imposed mandatory quota of non-law reading hours per week, throwing in fiction for good measure.
What all does a partner at a Law Firm like J. Sagar Associates have to do? What falls within the scope of your responsibility? Please tell us about a typical work day.
A partner at JSA has to be a multi-dimensional personality to enjoy his work. He has to be able to connect with his team members and their aspirations. He needs to have the right balance between promoting everyone blindly to being so harsh that no one likes to stay back with him. The role ranges from developing trust in clients to be able to command work, to discharging his duties well, and to thinking about the welfare of his attorneys. Unidimensional lawyers tend not to do well at JSA.
As the head of the securities law practice, I have to lead my team’s efforts in the practice and mentor teammates. I try to lead by example and help observant attorneys to learn by studying how I work.
A typical work day starts early morning when the phone starts ringing with the Far East having gotten into work. It ends late in the night when the United States is getting neck-deep into the work day. On days when I have hearings at the Securities Appellate Tribunal, there is also a need to orient oneself before the hearing and there can be some uncertainty about when one would finish a hearing. Managing expectations of transactional clients in parallel can be quite demanding. Of course, one can make time for other interests to be accommodated within the work day, with some degree of social media exposure thanks to smartphones, but the profession can be highly demanding. The world normally just sees the glamourous side of the legal practice, choosing not to see the very hard work and effort that it entails to be able to buy the glamour.
What is the transformation from being a retained partner to equity partner like? Are business development skills mandatory at such higher roles?
A commercial firm at the end of the day has to run on commercial lines. It has to earn enough for the longevity of the institution and to continue to provide a financially secure environment for its stakeholders. Therefore, it is critical that a leader of a professional firm should have business development skills. If you cannot command the trust of existing clients for getting newer work, or the respect and trust of new clients, how do you run a practice? It is fallacious to think that one can be an equity partner without the capacity to be a thought leader in the market place. Therefore, one should develop the cutting edge skills of improving the command over other people’s trust in you, which is at the core of business development skills.
When you accept interns under you, what kind of qualities do you look for? How do you say interns should go about their work so as to get noticed in a positive way in the limited time they have?
I do not screen interns at all. JSA has an internship policy, and we have managed to build a professional HR policy towards internships. Increasingly, this has moved from the old-style of internship being a tool to please clients and stakeholders to one where we can derive value from human resources, and attract new quality talent for future leaders of the firm.
First, interns should seek out a longer internship. Second, they should do so in advance. Even in this day and age, I get requests in May for internships in June. These are very difficult to accommodate in a manner that is of any meaning to the intern or to the firm. An ideal internship period would be of eight weeks. During an internship, the student should be a sponge and absorb everything that can be absorbed. Even if there is no specific work assignment that one is roped in, the access to a firm provides valuable access to how various professional work streams are handled – due diligence, research for opinions, contract-drafting, litigation filings etc. Interns have to seek to find opportunities to work and learn.
Tell us about the changes that occurred in your life after you became a partner. Did you ever feel that the workload had increased considerably? How do you maintain the work-life balance?
The profession has become more and more demanding. The key to being a successful partner is in meticulously planning and working on making oneself redundant by building human resources and future partners who are worthy of clients’ trust. Shunning insecurity is a critical element to enable greater exposure of colleagues to clients and in building clients’ trust in one’s colleagues. Keeping an overall oversight of work delivery and quality is where a partner should focus on. Yet, gauging what the client wants in each situation and ensuring that the expectations are being met is a very important aspect of managing a practice. Even with all this, the workload can only increase, and one has to be disciplined about handling it.
My work-life balance typically comes from writing my columns (weekly for the Mirror publications and monthly for the Business Standard) through the year, and more importantly from my travel both on work and on vacation. I ruthlessly take two to three weeks off annually without access to telecommunications so that I can recharge and re-balance myself.
Your core practice area includes securities laws, mergers and acquisitions, and foreign investment in India. How do you keep yourself updated of the recent developments in the same areas of law?
This is the era of information technology – it is not so difficult to find information on recent developments. Google alerts, RSS feeds and push services even from regulators can ensure that every recent development in your practice area lands up in your inbox every night. One has to keep the discipline of reading what needs to be read and ruthlessly sparing one’s eyeball time by shunning any reading of unnecessary stuff that digresses attention. The power of information technology makes the latter a challenge too. There is so much that social media throws in your direction that you have to be really disciplined in being discerning on what to read and when. This too is easier said than done.
Please share a few words about your contribution to public policy in the financial sector.
(As an active contributor to public policy in the financial sector, Somasekhar has been a member of organisations such as the High Level Committee to Review SEBI (Prohibition of Insider Trading) Regulations, 1992 and the Committee to Review Policy on issuance of Global Depository Receipts.)
I am grateful for these opportunities. I have been lucky to have had excellent Chairmen in each of these committees – Mr. C. Achuthan for the takeover regulations, Justice NK Sodhi for the insider trading regulations, Justice B.N. Srikrishna on work relating to the Financial Sector Legislative Reform Commission, Dr. P.J. Nayak for the committee on corporate governance in the banking sector, to name a few.
When you write law and policy, you realise how non-partisan one needs to be, and how one has to think of the larger interests of the nation and society. The law and policy govern multiple stakeholders, many of whom have conflicting objectives and desires. Good law is one that is easy to administer and respectful of the interests of various stakeholders. Working with this approach is also a big chance to think of the big picture in everything one does. It makes one a far more responsible professional.
You’re also an Independent Director at Oxfam India. What has the experience been like so far?
It is an excellent window of opportunity to do something concrete with the skills picked up in the profession. The lessons one learns at the Board of a well-run-and-intentioned NGO are invaluable. The exposure to professionals in the NGO space and their thoughts and ideas is a refreshing one. At the end of the day, any lawyer worth his salt is one who is conscious of the protections that the law affords to a people. Advocacy in the shaping of the law, enforcement of the law and indeed assistance in the governance of an institution are all complementary to a lawyer’s skills.
For example, working with the Reserve Bank of India and the Government of India to secure approvals and shape India’s policy towards enabling Indian civil society and NGOs to respond to the calamitous earthquakes in Nepal has been a very rewarding experience. It is intellectually challenging as a matter of law and policy and at the same time, very satisfying emotionally for being able to add value to humankind beyond what one does as a normal commercial lawyer.
What kind of effort should a young associate put into work to get appreciated? What distinguishes an associate with a partner when it comes to work?
Attention to detail is the critical element. Research and insight into applicable law is a given. An associate who has basic diligent application to work would stand out. For example, one that weeds out definitions that are not used through a document, or non-capitalised usage of a defined term, cleans up repetition of an entire definitional phrase despite the term having been defined, would stand out for his attention to detail. On the other hand, an associate who does not pick these things up and merely reflects corrections made by the partner without uniformly pro-actively implementing the principle even in instances where the partner misses things out, would stand out as a below average resource.
To me, the level of attention that an associate gives in a meeting or conference is also very important. If an associate takes no notes, behaves like a senior counsel, does not come back to you after a meeting with what is required to be done by the team, and instead waits to be told what to do, he would stand out as a below average resource.
There are bright sparks who are really clued in, summarize what was discussed and what needs to be done and assist the partner to deliver value, and they have a bright future with me.
Please tell us about the work environment at J. Sagar Associates. If a young associate commits a mistake or an error what course of action do you follow as a partner?
We are considered to be a very benign and chilled-out workplace. To err is human and to forgive is divine. Of course, that does not mean I would not scream and shout when these human propensities in me are provoked. I have increasingly started focussing on teaching youngsters of my team about the specific mistakes they make in their draft documents rather than just clean up and correct the mistakes without investing time in explaining the mistakes. If mistakes are not picked out and explained, the young associates accept all the changes you make, and focus on delivery to the clients rather than learn about what went wrong and how to adapt the lessons for future assignments.
A leader of the team should make this investment in the youngsters. Indeed, there are days when I could be perceived as being in a dangerous mood. I am told on those days my door is entered with trepidation. Yet, everyone in the team equally knows that my recovery from a temper tantrum is rather rapid!
As a concluding message, what would be your suggestions to law students?
Never lose sight of first principles of law. Every single time, go back to the first principles, the objects, intent and purpose of the law that you are handling, and you will never go wrong. Read the bare provisions of an applicable law every single time you consider a situation to which they apply. Do this every single time. Do not adopt the “boss is always right” attitude – it will not get you far and on the contrary it would erode the lawyer in you. This is a profession in which having your well-reasoned concurrence or dissonance is what is expected of you. Do not abandon reason at any time in your approach to the practice. “Because I say so” is one phrase that is alien to this profession.
