Can you share with us how you began your career in law and company secretarial work? What inspired you to enter this field, and how did you progress to your current position?
Interestingly, my journey towards becoming a legal counsel and law professional started accidentally. When I was in college pursuing my B.Com, I aspired to become a Chartered Accountant. To gain some working experience before enrolling in CA, I joined an organization to work in the accounts function after completing my B.Com. There, I met the Company Secretary and Legal Counsel, and I was impressed by their role, interacting with top management, handling significant matters, and sitting in board meetings. I was fascinated by that role and, instead of CA, I joined the CS course.
However, as fate would have it (and I believe that destiny plays a very important role in our lives), after becoming a Company Secretary and joining an organization as CS back in the early 90s, I was given the charge of the legal function as well. Since CS work also involves a lot of legal and compliance responsibilities, I was happy to take on this additional role. That’s where my journey as a legal counsel began, and I later completed my graduation in Law as well.
Since then, I have always worked as a legal counsel or legal head, mostly in-house. It’s been around 30 years since I took on these roles, working with different Indian and multinational organizations. From the moment I was first given charge of the legal function, I realized that this was what I always wanted to do. Initially, I gained exposure in litigation, then contracting, followed by IPRs, brand protection, and all other related fields, including compliance and risk management. Of course, I have continued my role as a Company Secretary and take pride in that.
The past three decades have flown by like it was yesterday. Presently, I am the Sr. Vice President and Head of Legal at UFlex Ltd., a multibillion-dollar organization and India’s largest multinational flexible packaging and solutions company. UFlex manufactures a wide variety of flexible packaging films for various industry sectors across the world. With headquarters in Noida (National Capital Region), the company has packaging films manufacturing facilities in India and overseas under the global subsidiary packaging films brand ‘Flex Films’ in UAE, Mexico, Poland, Egypt, Russia, USA, Hungary, and Nigeria, with a cumulative capacity of over 609,000 TPA.
Can you share some of the most challenging legal cases or compliance issues you have faced and what you learned from those experiences? Additionally, what are some emerging trends in the legal field that you believe will shape the future of corporate law and compliance?
Data privacy is an important legislation that has a significant impact on all organizations. Cyber risk is another area that requires serious monitoring, review, and an effective framework. Additionally, SEBI’s existing and upcoming regulations and compliance on Responsible Business and Sustainability have brought ESG and sustainability to the forefront of all organizations. This is beneficial not only for the organizations but also for the nation and the world as a whole.
During your tenure at DCM Shriram Ltd., you held the position of VP (Corp. Law) & Company Secretary for almost a decade. What were some of the key achievements and challenges during this time?
In the last ten years, particularly after the new Companies Act and new SEBI regulations, the role of in-house counsel and company secretaries has significantly increased and become very challenging. Compliance with SEBI Listing regulations, SEBI (Prohibition of Insider Trading) Regulations, FEMA compliance, Companies Act, and other corporate compliances require constant attention and a high level of proactiveness. Shareholder governance has also become a new challenge, with shareholder activism on the rise in India. This is beneficial for both the company and the shareholders. Therefore, providing appropriate and accurate disclosures with all relevant information to shareholders and the public has become a priority in governance today.
Compliance and governance of insider trading and SEBI regulations are complex and challenging roles that require a proactive approach, including regular awareness sessions and training for employees and other connected persons. As we operate multiple businesses, each with its own dynamics, this is crucial.
Outside of your professional life, do you have any hobbies or interests that you are passionate about? How do they help you maintain a work-life balance?
I am very passionate about golf. Every weekend starts with a round with friends. I am truly in love with this game and can’t imagine myself without it. Golf is purely a mind game and teaches you a lot of life lessons. Playing twice or thrice a week is a must for me. If I don’t play in any given week, it feels incomplete. This game not only relaxes and recharges me but also reveals one’s true character on the course. Golf is the best thing that has happened to me, and I could talk about it for pages.
As a visiting faculty and guest lecturer, what topics do you find most crucial to impart to your students? How do you ensure they are prepared for the evolving legal landscape?
I usually teach corporate laws, IPRs, labor laws, and data protection. However, today’s generation needs to be fully geared up with technology in legal, what we call Techlegal. This is the time of AI, ML, and GenAI, and routine tasks will increasingly be handled by technology. To excel in the field, students need to be proficient with technology and demonstrate creativity and new ways of working.
For students and young legal professionals trying to decide between pursuing a career in litigation or as an in-house counsel, what advice would you give to help them understand which area might be the best fit for them?
I think both have their taste. It depends on what is of your interest. However, in both situations, my advice to youngsters is – Be yourself – You are what you are – be original and don’t copy anyone. You are unique and have your personality. Find yourself to the optimum. Of course, there are many things one should learn from the seniors and other leaders that should be part of your development and increase your skillsets but don’t lose your originality, no one can replace you. Further as a career advice, since we are today living in a dynamic time and things are changing so fast that by the time you get to the details of a thing the new version or new avatar is already there. Therefore one needs to get to speed with this. Technical competency is mandatory but being proficient in technology is the need of the time as we are already in the era of AI, M, and Metaverse and it’s a reality. Keeping yourself updated with the time is crucial for the counsels to be successful. The other two most important things – one they should understand the business first before they advise and the second is the quick responsiveness and proper research.
Can you share with us your journey into the legal field, from your education at QueenMary University to your current role as Group General Counsel and Founding Member atVance?
My journey from pursuing LLM from Queen Mary, University of London to my current role has been a testament to perseverance and enthusiasm. As a first-generation lawyer, I embarked on this path driven not only by personal ambition but also by the inspiration of my father, whose own ambition inspired me to have a deep respect for the legal profession.
Studying abroad was a pivotal decision, marking the initial stride towards establishing myself in the corporate and commercial legal fraternity. Since then, my career has been characterized by a diverse array of experiences as an in-house counsel, navigating complexities in the fields of Real Estate, Information Technology & Privacy, Fin-Tech, Digital Payments, Digital Lending, Neo Banking, among others. From the moment I set foot at Queen Mary to the present day, each step of this journey has been marked by growth, learning, and the pursuit of excellence.
The opportunity to collaborate with Vance was not unexpected; rather, it was the culmination of a deliberate partnership with a visionary founder aimed at addressing the challenges of cross border payments and enhancing access to Indian banking and financial services for NRIs. Leading the legal, compliance and regulatory endeavours at a global level, I am privileged to contribute to the establishment of this groundbreaking venture. I am humbled to play a role in shaping the future of banking and financial services on this scale.
Throughout your career, you’ve worked in various capacities within the financial technology sector. What initially drew you to specialize in this industry?
Throughout my career, I’ve involved myself in various roles within the Fin-tech sector. However, it wasn’t until I got the opportunity at PayU Payments, where I stepped into a legal counsel role during the company’s establishment phase as a prominent B2B payments business in India. This pivotal moment ignited my passion and set me on a trajectory of growth within the fintech landscape.
From witnessing the nascent stage of payments in India to contributing to its evolution, my journey has been both exhilarating and transformative. Whether it’s pioneering digital payments at PayU, shaping digital credit strategies at Krazybee, driving the biggest of Indian payments products at NPCI, the umbrella organisation for operating retail payments and settlement systems in India or exploring the endless possibilities within the sector, I’ve found my niche and thrived in it. Fin-tech isn’t just where I work; it’s where I belong, and where I’ve honed my expertise.
Could you elaborate on the challenges you’ve faced navigating the intricate landscapes ofinformation technology, digital payments, and licensing throughout your career?
A lawyer’s life is loaded with countless challenges, a reality I’ve faced firsthand while steering complex areas of Information Technology, Digital Payments, Credit, and Licensing. One particularly notable hurdle has been customizing legal advisory to keep up with the swift pace of technological advancement in this space. With innovations occurring rapidly, it’s imperative to ensure that legal frameworks and policies evolve in tandem, necessitating continual adaptation and innovation.
Additionally, staying abreast of frequent regulatory changes and requirements especially in payments and digital lending has been paramount. The regulatory landscape is constantly evolving, compliance has become non-negotiable, and the regulator appreciates no compromises- I have numerous instances at hand from the industry. It’s essential to remain proactive, continuously monitoring changes, swiftly adjusting strategies and operations to maintain regulatory requirements, compliance and mitigate risks.
Collaborating with business and product teams to evaluate and incubate new payments products has its own complexities. Balancing innovation with regulatory compliance and risk management requires careful navigation. Successfully achieving regulatory approvals often entails extensive coordination, documentation, and engagement with regulatory bodies, adding another layer of challenge. If I talk about structuring deals and negotiating technical agreements in this dynamic environment, it has been daunting as well. We need to strike the right balance between innovation, risk allocation, and legal & compliance demands strategic thinking and adept negotiation skills. Moreover, managing peers amid these challenges requires effective leadership, clear communication, and fostering a culture of adaptability and continuous learning.
Despite these formidable challenges, I’ve approached each hurdle with resilience and a commitment to excellence. By leveraging strategic foresight, interdisciplinary collaboration, and a robust understanding of both legal and technological landscapes, I’ve successfully managed to navigate complexities, while driving innovation, and fostering growth.
As someone with extensive experience in commercial law, what are some key strategiesyou’ve employed when structuring complex business transactions?
It doesn’t sound as simple as this question. There are various stakeholders involved in structuring a commercial transaction depending on its size, however, my priority is to build a clear communication with those stakeholders to outline a transaction’s contours. Thorough due diligence, risk assessment, and mitigation are crucial, along with ensuring compliance with relevant regulatory and tax requirements. Additionally, being a business lawyer, I always consider the commercial viability of the deal and its potential profitability from a business perspective, working closely with my business to align legal strategies with their business goals.
With your background in cross-border payments and global neo banking, how do youapproach managing regulatory challenges in different jurisdictions?
Establishing business in different jurisdictions or dealing with regulators of different jurisdictions I tell you is a very challenging affair. This is something, expertise of which you do not have while bearing limited understanding. There must be a well thought through strategy. I prioritize thorough in-house research to gauge the feasibility of operating within each regulatory landscape. This involves understanding the legal and corporate structure(s) needed, which may vary significantly from one jurisdiction to another. When expertise is lacking, I rely on experienced consultants to guide us through the complexities either with respect to any kind of licensing, structuring, re-structuring, or other requirements. It’s crucial to have the right team in place to manage compliance both domestically and internationally, ensuring adherence to regulatory requirements while minimizing costs and risks. It could be a mix bag of domestic and international personnel.
As the Group General Counsel and Founding Member at Vance, what are your primaryresponsibilities, and how do you ensure legal compliance while fostering strategic growth forthe organization?
I feel my responsibilities extend beyond traditional legal service a General Counsel could render, especially after joining hands with Vance. I am tasked with leading both domestic and international legal, compliance and regulatory initiatives, ensuring that every facet of our operations aligns with the relevant laws and standards. However, my role is not limited to legal here; I also embrace the strategic aspects of business development.
To ensure smooth functioning of my department while fostering strategic growth, I engage deeply with multiple facets of the organization. This involves a collaborative approach with the business, product teams and other relevant stakeholders to navigate complex challenges and identify growth opportunities. By thinking strategically before incubating and executing commercial arrangements, I ensure decisions serve the best interests of the business while maintaining robust compliance.
Key to our success is the establishment and management of competent teams across India and other countries where we operate. This global framework supports our mission to expand as a Neo Bank currently serving more than five countries, with further expansion on the roadmap. Building the right team is crucial, not only for managing our expansive legal framework but also for enabling Vance to grow strategically and sustainably on the international stage.
Throughout your career, you’ve demonstrated a passion for leading legal teams. Whatleadership principles do you prioritize when managing and motivating your team?
Until I received the opportunity to lead legal & compliance at Krazybee, one of the fastestgrowing digital lending organizations in India, I hadn’t led teams throughout my career. Leading a legal team is a position of immense ownership and comes with significant responsibility. Here, I prioritize several key principles, many of which I gleaned from working closely with my previous managers. Firstly, I emphasize the importance of clear communication to ensure everyone comprehends their roles and objectives. Secondly, cultivating a culture of trust and collaboration empowers team members and fosters a sense of value. Additionally, I believe in offering continuous support and mentorship to facilitate professional growth and development. The guiding principle is collective growth and development of the entire team. Lastly, I underscore the significance of adaptability and resilience in navigating challenges and embracing change within the legal landscape.
Considering your wealth of experience, what advice would you offer to fresh graduates aspiring to pursue a career in law, especially within the dynamic landscape of financial technology and business management? I recall there was no mentor or proper guidance available to steer me in the right direction when I was graduating. As I progressed into my graduate years, I learned the intricacies of the legal industry and the life of a corporate lawyer the hard way. My foremost recommendation for fresh graduates is to seek guidance from seasoned lawyers in their vicinity, whether they specialize in litigation or corporate law, to gain insights into the industry and what lies ahead. It’s crucial to carefully consider which area of law they wish to specialize in, as there are various options available. They must engage in multiple internships during their undergraduate years, which is essential, as it prepares them for the intense competition they’ll face upon entering the workforce. Lastly, it’s important not only to focus on Fin-tech (it may be niche now, but may not be in the future) or business management but also to stay updated on the latest developments and rapidly changing technology in any area of law or other fields that find their interest.
Can you walk us through your journey from starting as an in-house counsel at HUL to your current role as General Counsel & Company Secretary at Greaves Cotton Ltd? What pivotal moments or experiences shaped your career path along the way?
22 + years of experience as an inhouse counsel – both an amazing journey and also a humbling experience. Immediately from the campus joining HUL was like a dream come true for any freshman. I have thoroughly enjoyed and immersed myself into an amazing experience of managing litigation, marketing schemes, sales promotion, labour issues, crises management et al working with a group of highly intelligent legal species, some of them continue to be my mentor. Post HUL, I have enriched myself in some short but interesting stints in Abbott and Marico before joining Johnson & Johnson where I spent a good 4 plus years in partnering the consumer business to witness its enormous growth. Post J&J and after a small stint in Jyothi Laboratories, joined GSK Consumer where from supporting supply chain business, got into the acquisition of Novartis OTC business, which going forward paved the way for its new GSK Consumer business. After being in GSK for 4 odd years, had a short stint in Cipla before joining Greaves Cotton. All my experiences before Greaves seem to be sublime in comparison with Greaves. My learning curve keeps going true north with exposure in – acquisitions, divestments, corporate structuring, compliance, brand management, managing litigation, handling crisis situations, investigations and on and on.
Your profile highlights extensive experience in mergers, acquisitions, and corporate restructuring. Could you share some insights into your approach to these strategic transactions and how they have contributed to the transformation of the businesses you’ve worked with?
Inorganic growth is the easy target of every organisation but at the same time it’s difficult to achieve for multiple reasons which can cover cultural fitment to financial aspirations of both the investor and investor. As an inhouse lawyer our responsibility extends beyond documentation, from the commencement of hunting the target till the completion of all the condition precedents, my role encompasses every dimension of the transaction. From structuring transactions to negotiation of the commercials, I have been able to successfully complete around 7 transactions in a span of the last 5 years in Greaves and counting. All these transactions have completely transformed the company over the years – from one engine B2B play to multi dimensional, fuel agnostic B2C company.
With your background in legal operations, including advisory, litigation, and contract management, how do you balance the need for legal compliance with the broader business objectives of the company?
To help the business to be compliant, one needs to be rooted in the business of the company very strongly and enforce the need to have a compliant framework in order to make the business growth sustainable. Compliance framework in order to be effective, need to be robust and look into not only the current state of affairs but should be able to capture the future business growth. It should also be able to detect and diagnose the problems early in order to take corrective actions before the system falls apart. Thus, an effective compliance framework should be futuristic and proactive.
You’ve been involved in numerous high-stakes litigations and dispute management scenarios throughout your career. Can you share a particularly challenging case you’ve encountered and how you navigated through it to achieve a favorable outcome for the company?
I have been fortunate enough to be part of numerous litigation which continues to be relevant. But I enjoyed the most litigation with the Government and one such litigation was challenging an order of the National Pharmaceutical Pricing Authority under DPCO 2013 before the Delhi High Court through a writ petition. The stake was very high in the litigation, but some of our competitors decided to take the route of filing a revision application under DPCO, but we distinguished that no alternative remedy is available and filed a writ straightaway. While getting a stay immediately and ultimately it was disposed of in our favour. The impact of the judgement was very high not only for us but for the industry overall.
Your expertise extends to real estate matters, including land acquisitions and liquidations across India. What are some key considerations or challenges you face in these transactions, and how do you ensure legal compliance and mitigate risks effectively?
Any land transactions whether acquisition or disposition is highly complex in India because of applicability of various state laws as well as from retrieving documentation. I have faced various challenges including classification of land, claiming of ownership, trust land, mutation entries etc. In my view it is very important to ensure we have digitised the entire documentation of the land bank and tagging all the original documents for quick retrieval. Any missing documents, need to be restored to ensure we have a complete chain of title with respect to each of the land document. For any acquisition we need to ensure we have a complete traceability of title at least for a period of 50 years to avoid any future litigation. Another important aspect is the public notice which needs to be as comprehensive as possible and needs to be published by at least three to 4 newspapers with a decent coverage. Unfortunately whatever steps one take real estate continues to be a grey area and prone to litigation.
In terms of influencing the external environment, how do you engage with influencers and industry associations to advocate for your company’s interests while staying within legal boundaries?
Influencing the external environment is a very difficult job considering that there is always a conflict of interest. The way I approach it is to understand the areas of focus of the government and help the government in order to achieve its objectives either by helping them through CSR initiatives like skilling, engaging with them to create awareness in some of the initiatives we strongly believe in or even helping them through professional advice pro bono. To summarise, influencing the external environment is possible only by demonstrating a strong purpose benefiting the society at large including the organisation.
As both a General Counsel and Company Secretary, how do you assist the Board of Directors in understanding and navigating the complex landscape of corporate compliance and governance? What strategies do you employ to ensure effective decision-making at the highest level?
I think the most important area of focus is to have a robust corporate governance mechanism to ensure that the Board is transparently privy to all the relevant information which can help them to make a decision. At the same time to ensure that the Board should not get into the executive role. The balance is difficult to maintain but as the GC and Company Secretary that has always been my endeavour.
Drawing from your rich experience, what advice would you give to fresh graduates aspiring to pursue a career in law, particularly those interested in corporate law and company secretarial roles?
The freshers I have interacted with are very intelligent, promising and talented. One word of caution to them is not to get swayed away by external perception, they need to understand the business at the grass root level like any other management trainee joining in any other function, show perseverance and wait for the opportune moment to flourish and not to rush. I am confident that the next generation is going to take the in house counsel role to the next zenith.
Looking back at the journey from your CA articleship to becoming the Group General Counsel at NIIF, how did you initially decide to pursue a career in law, and what pivotal moments shaped your decision to specialize in corporate law and investment funds?
My career path has been a case of pure serendipity. I chose the CA course as my group of friends collectively decided this was the path forward for us. After qualifying as a chartered accountant, I thought of giving civil services a shot. Hence, I picked “law” as a second subject. I joined Government Law College (GLC), as it was convenient to attend morning college and get to work at my chartered accountancy firm by 11 am. I had encountered Nishith Desai Associates (NDA) in my work-related research, and hence when they came to GLC for campus recruitment, it was a no-brainer to sit for their interview. From what the interviewer told me later, I came across as a no-nonsense nerd, and when they made an offer, I accepted. That’s how my journey in the professional field of law started.
In those days, NDA was a leading firm in India in the fields of international tax and investment funds. I joined the tax team and being a CA-and-lawyer, I got pulled into the funds team. I thoroughly enjoyed my time at NDA and lapped up every challenge / opportunity thrown at me, be it international tax advisory, international tax policy, fund formation, fund documentation, corporate transactions work, pro-bono advisory etc.
Looking back, I can only conclude that whenever I was at the fork of a decision in my career path, I took that leap of faith and successfully ploughed my way with self-belief and hard work as my tools. And as for the challenging days, I had the blessings and patience of my family and guidance from friends and well-wishers to pull me through.
As the Group General Counsel at the National Investment and Infrastructure Fund Limited (NIIF), what are some unique challenges and exciting opportunities you encounter in your current role?
When I joined NIIF, I already had over two decades of experience behind me. The niggling feeling was, what next. I had been an external lawyer as well as in-house, so what more could I look forward to. In NIIF I found the next chapter in my professional life.
During my interview for the post, my boss-to-be asked: what is it that makes NIIF an appealing opportunity to you? My answer was, NIIF as a sovereign anchored fund is a unique experiment in the history of India and it would be an honor to be a part of this history.
As Group General Counsel and Head Corporate Affairs (GGC-CA) at NIIF, the unique task I had to dive right into was ‘stakeholder management’. NIIF is 49% owned by the Government of India and balance 51% by sovereign, quasi sovereign, and other institutional investors (domestic and offshore). The Board is a representative of these diverse stakeholders as well as independent directors. Hence, as GGC-CA being trusted advisor to the stakeholders is key. A routine day is a combination of being the voice of reason, providing clear legal advice, addressing compliance challenges, providing guidance on governance matters, being sounding board for new ideas, and supporting business teams in executing strategic decisions. As fiduciary for investors’ monies, it is imperative to approach every legal/compliance conundrum with thorough technical analysis, test alternate outcomes, closely monitor execution and reporting.
NIIF offers exciting opportunities for professional growth and intellectual curiosity as we continue to scale our various investment platforms (across various infrastructure sub sectors), expand our private markets footprint, roll out new fund products (including our maiden India-Japan Fund) and much more.
From your extensive experience in structuring funds to managing acquisitions and joint ventures, you’ve covered a wide spectrum of legal aspects. Is there a specific area within your expertise that you find particularly fascinating or enjoy working on the most?
My first love has, and continues to be, taxation. As a student, I aced the subject and had penned “be a core member of the team to re-write the Indian income-tax act” on my vision board! Well, I haven’t achieved that goal but I have enjoyed my tryst with various taxation matters. Researching on and writing tax opinions has been tremendously rewarding, tax structuring of funds, managed accounts, fund investments, strategic ventures and other collaborations helped me to deftly leverage my passion and expertise. Through my focus on ‘policy advocacy’, I have also made representations (and drafted proposed amendments) on tax, legal and regulatory issues.
Another fascinating aspect of my professional life (which am sure, other deal junkies like me will also confess) is negotiating complex contracts. On the execution day of any transaction, it is absolutely satisfying to check your score card and find that the deal breakers were addressed suitably and the terms of the resultant contract have emerged as clear and unambiguous, thus being capable of performance as well as enforcement.
In one of my early transactions, when I ended up being chosen as the common counsel for the buyer and seller of a large real estate transaction, I asked the seller-client (who had approached me first) that aren’t you worried a common lawyer may find a middle path rather than fight for your side? His reply has stayed with me since: there is never a good contract with a bad counterparty and never a bad contract with a good counterparty. A clever lawyer is one that doesn’t miss the woods for the trees. Stay focused on why that transaction is important for your company and thereby make the right legal calls for the longevity and success of the business.
As a seasoned counsel, my approach is not to treat the negotiation room as a war zone. Rather take it as an opportunity for parties on both sides to negotiate in good faith and with the objective of finding the best workable solution for any deadlock in the commercial imperatives. Having worked on several transactions in my career, I have realised that a deal can take a life of its own and it is very easy to get caught in the vortex to make the deal happen. However, knowing when to keep going and when to back off from a transaction is a critical skill to cultivate. “Sometimes your best investments are the ones you don’t make”1.
As a jury member for awards recognizing Alternate Investment Professionals in India, what qualities or achievements do you look for in professionals that make them stand out in the field of investments and legal advisory?
When Aditya Gadge of Equalifi reached out to me to be a member on their jury for “40 under 40, Alternative Investment Professionals in India”, it felt like coming of age and as if we the jury members were handing over the baton to the next generation stars. The nominees definitely lived up to this expectation. The nominees had dedicated years to their respective fields with passion and had strived to make a mark for themselves.
The qualities that I appreciate are: consistency in performance, staying focussed when faced with a challenge, ability to spot opportunities and own the space, and bias towards quality in execution. For professionals in the legal and compliance function the qualities that will make them stand out are: solid foundation (educational / practical training), ability to navigate the grays, a strong backbone to withstand pressures/not take short term calls, foresight to spot legal/regulatory changes on the horizon and impact on the company/business and having an affable personality.
Being a member of SEBI’s Working Group on AIF Regulations and other regulatory committees, how do you see the evolving landscape of investment regulations in India, and what role do you think legal professionals play in shaping these changes?
There is no doubt that we are functioning in a complex and dynamic legal and regulatory environment. Change is the only constant. Laws are being redrawn, regulations are being upscaled and regulators are being conferred with enhanced powers. It is no surprise that in such a scenario, the experienced senior and her freshly minted lawyer are reading the new law at the same time!
Legal professionals play a pivotal role in such times. Legal acumen and clarity in drafting are the two key skill sets that a legal professional brings to the expert group / committee. With her experience, the legal professional can also help the ministry / regulator sift through the clutter and narrow down the mischief that needs to be addressed through the new law or regulation. The new law / regulation needs to address the ostensibly contradicting objectives of keeping the industry in check (from malpractices) and support growth of the industry. Thus, being effective through the policy drafting process becomes very important.
Unfortunately, clear drafting is becoming a dying art. Have encountered many lawyers accessing the myriad library options and walking the easy ‘copy-paste’ path. There was a time when our seniors would dictate complicated clauses off the top of their heads. The technological advancements and legaltech solutions have unfortunately stymied the creativity and thinking on your feet skills of young lawyers.
You transitioned from working at a law firm, Nishith Desai Associates, to joining Kotak Investment Advisors Limited. What factors or considerations influenced your decision to make this switch, and what notable differences did you experience in working with a firm versus working directly with a company like Kotak?
My primary reason for the transition was to learn the industry from the inside. As an external counsel, you are sometimes like an ‘armchair advisor’. You provide the advice, give the pros and cons of each option and you move on. What makes your client chose one option versus the other, how the risk chips stacked up for each scenario and finally did the option yield the desired result or not – are all unknown to you as you have already shut that file and moved on to the next deliverable on your to-do list.
Joining Kotak gave me that opportunity to learn the business side of asset management industry. Building and growing the business by standing shoulder-to -shoulder with the leadership made me the business lawyer that I am today. I am privileged to have worked across multiple business / economy cycles impacting this industry. There are lawyers I have heard say, “in my experience….” but most of these have not had any practical experience and are merely shooting off theoretical knowledge as experience. If one is serious about dedicating their professional life to a particular specialisation it is imperative that one sees that industry from the inside-out.
“When you come out of the storm, you won’t be the same person who walked in. That’s what this storm’s all about.”2 – so is the case with going in-house. You come into your own – you are a sharper lawyer and decision-maker, you can provide 3600 analysis of the issue at hand (legal, tax, regulatory, compliance, governance, risk and probability of success if challenged), and you eventually build your own name/brand within your company and the industry. For all those who have asked me the question, should they try an in-house role, my answer has always been – just do it, you won’t regret the decision.
Having navigated through prominent roles at Cyril Amarchand Mangaldas and IDFC Alternatives, what unique insights or perspectives have these experiences offered you, shaping your journey and imparting valuable lessons to enhance your growth as a legal professional?
I joined Cyril Amarchand Mangaldas (CAM) after 10 years of being in-house. Hence, I will admit I had my apprehensions. However, I buckled up for the ride, decided not to look back until I had achieved a short-term goal that I had set for myself and thereafter it was as easy as getting the hang of building your Lego masterpiece! Through my stints at each of my law firms and employers, the learnings I have gathered are:
Hire wisely: Take your time to find the right mix of professionals to be on your team. A team is as strong as its weakest link. When you hire right, the members will up the game for each other, will learn from each other, will work collaboratively and create a lasting professional camaraderie. The corollary also implies that you need to let go of the one that don’t make the cut, bring the morale down or don’t work as one team.
Be generous with your time: not just with your clients but also your team. The clients and team are your twin responsibility as the team head. You need to make time and effort to understand them well in order to succeed.
Learn-Unlearn-Relearn: keep an open mind. There are learnings to pick up from every interaction. When tackling a challenging matter, empty your cup and restart to find the right solution for the client. When juniors are going through personal challenges, be kind and patient. If the junior is a sound and committed lawyer you don’t want this talent to get lost, be supportive and collaborate with her in navigating the path.
Don’t indulge in a race to the bottom: Don’t compete on price. When you know your expertise and experience lead to a superior output then command that premium. Work with the people who will pay the value for your worth.
Clarity and forthrightness: Provide clear view based on fine reading of the law and supported by appropriate underlying research. The number of “should” opinions are increasing, so what is the client getting from such opinions. Another one of my favorite quotes is: contradictions don’t exist, check your premises.3 Do your best in navigating the greys and narrowing down to the right answer / solution. Stay your ground and don’t compromise.
Don’t get complacent: “On a stone that doesn’t roll, moss grows certainly”. Keep investing in yourself and your intellectual growth.
With over 25 years of experience, you’ve witnessed the evolution of the legal landscape. Could you share some challenges you faced during your early career, and how do you perceive the changes in the education system and internship opportunities for aspiring legal professionals today?
I neither came from a family of lawyers/judges nor did I spend enough time at law college as I had to hurry back to work post lectures. I remember bungling my first (and only) moot court appearance! I learnt the ropes along the way. From education system wise, some of the law schools are doing an excellent job at building the foundation of sound legal knowledge in students. However, the ‘business’ of education comes in the way at times and churning out graduates in large numbers takes over. Law firms too hire 100-200 students from law schools and throw them at the deep end of the pool. The legal fraternity then loses talent as either the young minds burnout or leave the profession due to lack of mentors, sponsors or support in carving their own niche.
Currently, there is an evident short supply of talent in the middle (5 to 10 years PQE) segment. Most corporates are hesitant as in the short internship stints one is neither able to extract value nor make effective use of an additional resource. However, it is imperative for corporates to take on the ownership of providing more internship opportunities and these opportunities could be created not just in legal and compliance functions but also in the business teams as it would be a wonderful opportunity for the young minds to be exposed to a ring side view of corporate India. To the students, my advice is to do as many diverse internships as possible. Don’t box yourself too soon, in one field or another. Try out multiple fields/businesses/practices, you may or may not choose that field eventually but the learnings you will gather would be transportable and will stand you in good stead.
You’ve been recognized in various lists, including BW Legal World’s Top 100 General Counsel Power list. What does such recognition mean to you, and how do you think it contributes to the representation of women in leadership roles in the legal domain?
Being named on the BW Legal World Top 100 General Counsel Power List 2022 was a very humbling and rewarding experience. When one’s work is validated by a jury of eminent seniors from your field and you stand amidst peers that you hold in high esteem, it works like a booster shot and makes you power on with renewed energy. The women comprised ~ 35 out of the Top 100. Surely, there is scope for many more women professionals to make their mark in leadership roles. May our tribe increase!
Improving the representation of women in leadership roles in the legal domain requires concerted efforts to not lose talented women. To begin with, recognising that most women professionals still carry a disproportionate burden for domestic deliverables despite both spouses having similar demanding jobs. She goes through phases where going the family way, rearing the kids and providing elder care will raise demands on her time. So long as the woman professional is committed to career, it would be helpful to provide flexible options / customised solutions with respect to role, office timings or pace of career growth. Another solution would be to provide a path for women to return to fulfilling roles post their career breaks.
Apart from your professional achievements, we’re curious to know if you have any hobbies or interests outside of the legal world. How do you unwind and recharge outside of work?
While my professional work satiates the left side of my brain, my hobbies leverage the right side of my brain. Hence, if I wasn’t a lawyer, I would have been an artist. I enjoy dabbling in acrylic and oil painting (on canvas) and generally indulge in creative projects around my house. I enjoy music and in fact when tacking a badly drafted document, I switch on my playlist and hack through the document at the beat of my favorite songs! Being a Mumbaikar has also been a boon, as I love going for longs walks along the sea face after a tiring work-day as the cool sea breeze and hum of the city immediately recharge my batteries.
The legal profession is constantly evolving. What advice would you give to young legal professionals who are just starting their careers, especially in navigating the complexities of corporate law and investment funds?
A lawyer’s life is not easy. It is a demanding career and my first piece of advice is don’t venture in this field unless you are passionate about law. Choosing to be a lawyer because it is a safe financial bet will lead you to disengage very soon and you will end up dragging yourself to work unhappy and bored. You will achieve your true potential only when you enjoy what you do. If you are a good lawyer, you can distinguish yourself from your herd of fellow lawyers by being curious, reading the text of law / regulation thoroughly, challenging the premises, researching underlying legal principles and absorbing from the conversations when participating in clients meetings / leadership meetings.
There is no textbook / handbook on the funds industry. So, the more time you invest in learning about the industry the better lawyer you will be. Invest time reading about the industry players (there are many corporate biographies / founders biographies), understand the business of investing, research the legal structural options in India and across the globe, study the commercial clauses of fund documents closely, understand the trends / preferences of capital allocators (investors), get an exposure to work in other jurisdictions, and research on laws/regulations (and their evolution) in relation to the funds industry in other countries. When in doubt, ask for help. Reach out to your partner and request time to discuss and understand better your work, your work output and ways in which you can improve and grow. Further, attend training sessions conducted by industry bodies (e.g. IVCA, CII, FICCI etc.) and above all network and interact with lawyer peers as well as peers from within the industry. Lastly, when you become successful and reach the top, remember to send the elevator back down for the others i.e. be a patient mentor and guide to your juniors.
1Donald Trump, in the article available at https://www.niveza.in/stock-news/learn-investing/sometimes-your-best-investments-are-the-ones-you-dont-make-donald-trump#:~:text=Sometimes%20your%20best%20investments%20are,don%27t%20make%20%2DDonald%20Trump
