Super Lawyer

Tag: ISB

  • Sagarika Chakraborty, CEO, IIRIS, on law school, research work and MBA from ISB, Hyderabad

    Sagarika Chakraborty, CEO, IIRIS, on law school, research work and MBA from ISB, Hyderabad

    Sagarika graduated from NLU-Jodhpur in 2008 and from the Indian School of Business in 2012 with a Master of Business Administration, Strategy and Marketing degree. She is at present the CEO of Indus IntelliRisk and IntelliSense Services Pvt. Ltd. (“IIRIS”). She has several academic papers and publications to her credit and internships with reputed corporate houses and organizations such as Amarchand Mangaldas Suresh A. Shroff and Co. and ISRO, Bangalore. In this interview she talks to us about:

    • Activity-oriented law school days at National Law University, Jodhpur.
    • Her views on the CLAT, mooting in law schooland internships
    • Her transformation from a corporate lawyer to a risk management expert, leader and manager.
    • Working at IIRIS and career opportunities there for law graduates.
    • Her views on management of Non-Performing Assets in the Indian banking industry.
    • Publishing– books, papers and the history behind her affinity for writing.

     

    Please tell our readers about how your interests gravitated towards law.

    I come from a family of engineers, so a degree in law was never considered to be the first preference. However, call it genes (my maternal grandfather was a lawyer) or just the urge to break the monotony – I wanted to become a lawyer ever since I was 12. The fact that I could make a difference with my intellect, my reasoning and help build a change allured to me more than building machines I guess.

     

    How would you describe your time at National Law University, Jodhpur? What all activities did you participate in?

    When I graduated from NLU, I recollect that we had to describe the campus in one word amongst a friendly meet up. I referred to it as my “transmorgifier” (reference : Calvin & Hobbes) – for it made me believe in things I otherwise thought I could never achieve and unlike my counterparts outside campus, I knew what I wanted to do and where my passion lay.

    I have always been an over ambitious, go getter, who believes in making full use of her time anywhere. So NLU saw me being an active mooter (proud to mention that my team mate and I won the first national trophy in any competition in the history of NLU), active debater, participator in all social activities, legal aid camps and yes being at the helm of affairs of the “Editorial Committee”.

     

    You went to an NLU at a time when CLAT hadn’t started and every law school conducted its own entrance exam. What are your views on the shift to a common law entrance exam?

    Well if you ask the prudent me – I think it was implementation of a much needed concept. It helped break the barrier amongst a lot of law schools. However, in the shoes of a prospective student, I would still prefer the old system. Somewhere, it gave us more chances. Now, have one bad day on the CLAT day and you can kiss your National Law University dreams good bye – life gave us second chances in the absence of CLAT to be a part of another campus.

     

    From ISRO, Bangalore to AMSS, you have done versatile internships during your time at law school. How did you go about deciding where to apply? In retrospect, how beneficial were these internships for you?

    As I said earlier, unfortunately (or fortunately) I have always been a person who knows what she wants from life and therefore it helps in my planning. Every internship therefore was a well thought of affair. I was representing India for the Manfred Lachs Moot in Sydney, and I saw the ISRO internship to be the perfect opportunity to gain technical knowledge. Call it my good fortune or a lucky stroke, I was involved in the research of Chandrayaan during my tenure there and it gave me tremendous exposure to policy making and international law – an experience I shall always cherish.

    Similarly, Kingfisher was my preferred choice, because at that time they were involved in the huge debate of whether the aircrafts being procured should be “leased” or “mortgaged” – a coveted debate in those days. So I was very lucky to be a part of their legal team during my internship there.

    As for the law firms – well it is an eternal struggle for a law student to identify where their interest lies, in corporate houses or in law firms. So guess, I used that opportunity to understand why law firms are not for me and why I am more interested in business houses.

     

    Do you think moot courts and client counselling competitions add to a law student’s experience? How much importance did you give to these activities while at law school?

    Ha ha, I was a moot court (or any competition) junkie. During my school days I was a national level debater, so moot courts always appealed to me. They helped me oodles in gaining confidence, providing exposure, understanding the importance of networking and yes in helping find a few best friends for life! I cherish each of my experiences of participation in law school – the memorials helped me draft better and emerge as a coherent thinker and writer, the debates helped me sharpen my analytical skills and emerge as a better professional.

     

    From a corporate lawyer you have gradually turned into a risk management expert. How did this interest develop? How do you come up with risk mitigation strategies for a client?

    Though a corporate lawyer, I always wanted to also explore the other side of business. For me, the real thrill lay in not only executing a task but being in charge of end to end dealings of an assignment. Unfortunately, as a lawyer that visibility spectrum was not complete. I had always wanted to do an MBA, but was sure of only applying to a geography where I saw myself working – hence India was the only option. Further, I was clear that I wanted to go into the risk mitigation (physical security and corporate investigations) space – unfortunately there are no such dedicated courses in India. ISB being renowned for its strategy courses was my best bet thus!

    In my current role, there are no fixed formulae for drawing up mitigation strategies for a client – it all depends on the client need. The same can range from providing an advisory for a potential investment or to providing him with executive protection in order to protect his life and assets. It is just as broad and crazy, as it is fun!

     

    What is your day like as the CEO of IIRIS? What are your roles and responsibilities?

    It is a melange of running around, fitting in all meals during drives from one client location to another and brainstorming through the day about cracking hard core white collar crimes. There is one thing that is never there but – a  moment of dullness. That is why I guess, it never feels like a job. This profession is my passion and though it also pays my bills, I cherish it to the extent that I solve investigations in my dreams and quite often wake up to scribble a strategy that I thought of in my sleep, lest I forget in the morning.

    I am a part of a start up, therefore as a CEO there are no roles per se. Right from licking envelopes to executing confidential assignments – everything is my domain and I love to be a part of it.

     

    How did you transform from a corporate lawyer into a leader and manager? What strategies do you undertake to keep employees happy and efficient?

    (In the last one year itself Sagarika has trained over 500 bank officers in areas of Due Diligence and NPA Early Warning tracking. At the same time, she also managed employees and experts at IIRIS.)

    If NLU was my “transmorgifier” that helped me believe that I could be whatever I want, ISB was my “metamorphosis cocoon” that helped me change. The ability to multi task, to think and deliver coherently and all together is the best trait that ISB passed on to me during my tenure there. I don’t know how I do it, but I guess when you are passionate about something, your levels of adrenalin are very high and you are in a different zone altogether, where things just get done.

    Ha ha, I am quite a tough boss and trust me I go by the philosophy that I cannot make everyone happy, but instead I should try for providing an environment where there is job satisfaction and growth. I am a perfectionist and therefore I am known to push my team, but at the same time I shall only push when I know that I can take over and deliver so that under no circumstances does my team feel that they are being challenged without being provided support or a fall back option. The other philosophy that I have learnt from my mentor (who is also our MD at IIRIS) is that let people discover what they want to do and support their growth – thus we have no JDs at IIRIS – every employee is allowed to discover where their strengths and interests lie during the 6 months of probation and then pursue that.

     

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    Does IIRIS take interns from law schools? What is the procedure to apply?

    IIRIS is open to internships / recruitment from every scholarly and education field – for we believe that it is your passion and not your degree that helps you shine in the risk mitigation domain. Of course, being a lawyer there is an added advantage (I say this from personal experience) – the analytical abilities and the power to interpret is much higher and therefore we always welcome lawyers to be a part of the team.

    All job openings / opportunities are available on the “Careers” page of our website (www.iirisconsulting.com) along with the procedure to apply – just shoot a mail with your interest and the HR shall take care of the rest.

     

    The Govt. of India has been facing the problem of excessive accumulation of gold in households which blocks a lot of potential currency flow and causes hurdles. What is your take on this issue? Do you think successive Govt. policies have been able to solve the problem to some extent?

    BFSI is one of my preferred domains and I invest myself a lot in such investigations / risk advisory exercises. It is indeed a challenge that the country is facing, however we also have to acknowledge that India is one of the few countries who are accepting NPAs as a problem, instead a lot of the foreign counterparts who are either under reporting the same or changing definitions to lower such reporting. There are enough policies I feel, the regulators have been prudent enough to provide adequate guidelines – the problem however, lies in awareness and learning the importance of stringent implementation of such policies. The change is needed in the mindset and working methodologies and inwaking up to tackle the problem by the horns through differential risk mitigation approaches – but I am glad to say that things are changing and there’s indeed optimism in the air.

     

    You have several published papers to your name. How difficult was it to write your first published paper? Please share your experience.

    This question, actually made me stop and recall my first published research paper and at the risk of sounding conceited, it did take me a while. I give it to my professor Lt. Vedantam Shashtri (NLU, Jodhpur) to have inspired me to pick up the pen and indulge in research. It was a project done for his class that inspired me to take up a working paper along with him. From a tiny mention as a “researcher” to being the “leading author” (and he agreeing on the co-author tag) – I guess somewhere he inspired me to believe that policy making and research was something that came naturally to me. I write as an extension of the dream that drove me to be a lawyer – to bring about change. I know I shall stagnate if I don’t brainstorm and indulge in research – so I guess I am not very different from those who do it to beautify their bios – we all have our own selfish reasons, as long as we are at peace with our reasons for doing it.

     

    How do you find the time to write papers and books despite your busy schedule?

    I never chose the pen, the pen chose me. Coming from a Bengali family, intellectual growth was promoted right since childhood. Everyone in my family has picked up the pen for academic or other reasons, so I guess right since childhood I have expressed better through printed / written words. Further, my grandmother made me realise that the greatest power is immortality and words never die. I write in my head, throughout the day and thus, by the time I sit down to write the next chapter of my upcoming book or finish a research paper for a financial institution – there is no additional work that I am doing. I am merely penning down a dictation that my mind is narrating. It comes just as naturally to me.

     

    What is your message to our readers?

    Never let people tell you what you can do. Instead understand what they think you cannot do and challenge yourself. Know your passion and no matter how deviant, pursue it. Respect your body, there’s little you can do without it being in the prime condition. Love what you do, strive to be an expert so that when you speak the world knows that you are not there to hog the limelight but that you mean business. Lastly, in your own little way, try to retire to bed with the satisfaction that you have given back to the country that gave you your biggest identity – the nationality / citizenship!

  • Sanchit Aggarwal, Masters Candidate, ISB, on marrying law with management

    Sanchit Aggarwal, Masters Candidate, ISB, on marrying law with management

    sanchit-aggarwal-1Sanchit Aggarwal is a graduate of Rajiv Gandhi National University of Law, Patiala, batch of 2014. He has recently qualified for the MBA Programme at the Indian School of Business which is one of the most prestigious institutions for pursuing MBA. Currently he’s an Associate at APJ-SLJ Law Offices and will soon be joining ISB.

    We spoke to him about:

    • Selection process at ISB
    • Balancing studies in law school and MBA prep
    • Prospects of BALLB + MBA

     

    When did you decide to pursue an MBA?

    Even before I joined Law School, I dreamt of doing an MBA post Law. I have always been fascinated by Business and the art of minting money.

    I have always been of the school of thought that being a student of a National Law University, the major take away after five years should not merely be the knowledge of law, but the legal skills that one acquires in the process of the study and interpretation of law, mooting, interning, debating, writing research papers and other activities that a law student takes up. I have never supported the conventional view of practising law after studying law. There are a plethora of avenues out there, awaiting to be exploited. I always wanted to use my acquired legal skills in a business environment, my long term aim being to become an entrepreneur. I think law gives you the edge of knowing the regulatory framework well enough, understanding the compliances and understanding the statutory and other measures required and applying them to run a business. I believe people working in organizations in the top positions ought to have a decent understanding of the law, in order to manage business in their top capacity. Discovering a new avenue was my primary motivation in this journey.

     

    Why did you choose ISB over IIMs?

    I preferred ISB over IIM’s and hence aspired for ISB only. The major reason behind this decision was the ideology of ISB compared to that of IIMs. If you compare the level of diversity in both these colleges, you are bound to see a remarkable difference. While more than 90% of the students at any of the IIMs are engineers and mostly boys, the case at ISB is drastically dissimilar. ISB promotes and supports diversity in its students’ backgrounds, similar to the top B-schools in the world. The Class of ISB is a mix of engineers, doctors, CA’s, Army Officers, Government Servants, Social Workers, Economists, Architects, Sportsmen and several other professionals from diverse background. Without denying the fact that majority of students are engineers, the fact that every student regardless of his background is at par and carries with himself the power to do equally good is also true. The curriculum, the activities and other co-curricular activities at ISB are designed to cater to the needs of all individuals and not just one category of students. Thus being a lawyer, I thought it to be a saner decision to join ISB as I would get a more nurturing environment where I could develop myself to my potential, exploit my strengths and not merely follow a fixed path. Many might disagree with my opinion.

     

    Please tell us about the admission process.

    ISB accepts only GMAT scores. Getting into ISB is a three stage admission process.

    First Stage: You are required to submit a video essay (ISB gives you a topic to speak on, in limited time) and list all your achievements and activities till date.

    Second Stage: You have to submit your GMAT score. Further three essays, generally on topics describing your goals, achievements, moments that have changed you etc. Then two online evaluations (recommendations) by your employer or professor or any person under whom you have worked. I submitted one from the VC of my University and second one from Senior General Manager, ICICI Bank.

    Third Stage: In the Final Stage you are given a complex case study to solve, generally based on market study and business. Then is the interview by a panel of three consisting of one from the faculty, one alumni of ISB and one from the admissions committee.

    These stages are elimination stages.

     

    What was your score for GMAT? Did you take any other MBA entrance exams?

    I managed to secure 700/800 on GMAT. Since I primarily aimed at ISB, I did not give any other MBA entrance exams.

     

    What was your preparation strategy for GMAT and how did it change over the time?

    I prepared for GMAT for just two months in my semester break. I made it a point to be consistent with my preparation as I had limited time at my disposal. My strategy was fairly simple, i.e. to be consistent, in spite of all the lows and try to commit the least fundamental errors as I couldn’t afford them, due to paucity of time. I also decided to cancel my confirmed internships, to avoid falling flat on my face in my quest for a B-School entry pass. So I dedicated all my time preparing for the second stage of ISB, of which GMAT was an essential element. I focused most on essays and evaluations, rather than blindly focusing on the GMAT. This in my opinion is the biggest mistake that many students make, i.e. by channelizing all their time and energy on GMAT, ignoring other important aspects of the application. B-Schools view a candidate’s application holistically and never pick a candidate for just one star in his application. An Application with good academics, good essays, good profile and a good GMAT score has a higher probability of selection compared to an application with excellent academics and excellent GMAT, but average essays and an average profile.

    My suggestion to all B-School aspirants as far as an Admission Application is concerned is that you must try and focus on all aspects of your application, especially on your weakest areas, as your weaknesses would be highlighted before your strengths.

     

    What was your preparation strategy for the Quantitative Ability & Data Interpretation and Verbal Ability & Logical Reasoning?

    As I mentioned earlier, I faced scarcity of time. There was a lot to be done and time was limited. Thus time management was the key. I tried spending at least some time on every part of my Application on a daily basis. Being a lawyer I had become a little distant from quant, but I always loved mathematics in school. It took a little time to get adjusted to solving math problems, contrasting to searching for case laws, but ultimately it was fun. I found the Verbal section in the GMAT a little tough. It is very important to have good basics in grammar, fast reading and interpretation skills (a breeze for lawyers) and most importantly good time management to master this section. I started giving mock tests at an early stage in my preparation, just to fast track my preparation and focus primarily on my weak areas.

     

    What kinds of questions were asked by the interview board?

    The interview board comprised of an ISB Faculty, an ISB Alumni and a person from the admissions committee. Each wanted to test me on a different ground. My job was to get a unanimous nod from all three.

    The ISB Faculty primarily asked me basic questions like ‘Why MBA after Law?’, ‘Where do you see yourself after ISB?’, ‘How will your Legal Background help you with MBA?’ ‘How will you cope up with Accounts and Economics?’

    The person from the admissions committee was more concerned in screening my Application. He asked me even minute details from my essays and evaluations. He grilled me on my essays to primarily see whether I had actually written them and how well I could actually explain them.

    The most interesting questions were posed by the ISB alumni. I was even asked to do a spontaneous market analysis for law firms in India. Further he primarily wanted to know my aspirations and how I could meet them by studying at ISB. He tested my Business and Management skills to a certain extent.

    The interview lasted for around 45 minutes and had me sweating. It was very different from what I had expected, but at the end of it, I actually felt good about myself. My advice to all aspirants would be to keep it as real as possible and not try to fake. Being a lawyer helped a lot, as they definitely see the candidate’s confidence and composure.

     

    What advantages does the combination of Law + MBA entail in the current as well as future market?

    The majority of the sectors like Telecom, Banking, Real Estate, Infrastructure, Pharmacy, Trading, Aviation and several other sectors are highly regulated. A person managing these businesses and at a decision making position needs to understand the law, in order to take saner decisions and understand the advice given by the Legal Department. It is important to understand the reasons of the regulations and compliances as well as the consequences of non-adherence. I believe a businessman/ top management individual would greatly benefit from knowing the law and similarly a Law firm Partner level individual would benefit from a formal background in management. Law + MBA combination is gaining popularity in the USA and European Union. JD + MBA is one of the most sought after courses on offer by Harvard. I feel that the future market holds a lot of water for individuals with a Law + MBA background and the demand for them will accrue in the time to come.

     

    Please tell us about the difficulties you faced.

    Coming from background where doing an MBA is not even considered as an option, it was never easy to explain my decision to people around me (“ye law ke baad MBA kaun karta hai” being the question I answered more than 10 times daily). Moreover I did not know anybody who could actually help me with my GMAT, essays and other related aspects. I took no coaching as well, thus my biggest source of information were articles and opinions written by people who had cleared MBA entrances. Taking the decision of not doing an internship after the end of my Fourth Year, was very tough and seemed very risky to me at that point of time. But apart from this, I really did not face any other major difficulties.

     

    Do you plan on returning to the legal industry?

    I have specialized in Business Laws from law college and plan to pursue the same for the next couple of years. I want to understand the legal aspect of Business transactions and practice relevant Business Laws. Further I also want to gauge the functioning of a corporate law firm in India from a management perspective. I believe being a lawyer I have the privilege of working at a law firm and understanding the operations of the same. So I see no point of directly taking up a marketing or finance job at this stage, without exploring the legal industry.

    Answering your second question, I am absolutely open to returning to the corporate legal industry if I feel I can contribute my bit in improving the management and functioning of law firms in India. I believe my experience in the legal industry coupled with my management education from ISB shall put me in a position to improve the operations and management of Law firms in India. But alas I am too young to actually comment on that.

     

    Do you think an MBA has rendered your five years of law education redundant?

    Not at all. In fact I feel that MBA will immensely enhance the value of my legal education and enable me to utilize my legal background in a rather non-conventional manner.

    As of now I plan to get into strategy consulting post ISB and in the further future, I want to become an entrepreneur.

     

    What would be your advice to the current lot of law students wanting to go to a business school later on?

    It is never easy to swim against the tide. But if your dream is different, you ought to think differently. I advise all law students who aspire to go to B-School, to pursue their aspirations to the extent they possibly can and not half heartedly. I say this because it is very difficult to think beyond getting a job when you see your batch mates getting them. It is up to you whether you choose to pursue MBA in India or abroad, or give CAT or GMAT, just be consistent. There might not be many successful examples in front of you, as many lawyers haven’t pursued an MBA, but let this not deter you from doing it, if you believe that it would benefit you.