Tag: JD

Sanjeeth Hegde, Partner, BananaIP Counsels and his diverse working experience in both US and India
Sanjeeth Hegde graduated with a Juris Doctorate from the University of New Hampshire School of Law in 2004. Thereafter, he went on to qualify for a Masters in Intellectual Property, Commerce and Technology (MIP) from the same institute. He is a Partner at one of India’s leading IP consultancies, BananaIP Counsels, where he heads the licensing, commercialization and also IP for start-ups practice. He regularly counsels clients such as Samsung, Mahindra & Mahindra, Yash Raj Films, IIT Madras and start-ups out of IIM Bangalore. He is also the co-founder and Managing Partner of the BIP Group, a technology transfer and IP commercialization firm.

He is entrusted with the responsibility of client engagement, client relationship management, some aspects of operations such as HR, Marketing and IT for the firm.

In this interview, we speak to him about:
- The differences between the working environments between the US and India.
- His role as Managing Partner of the BIP Group.
- How to avoid a decision paralysis in career options.
- The importance of mentors in the legal fraternity.
- The key attributes that one must develop in order to excel as an IP lawyer.
Hello Sanjeeth, how would you introduce yourself to our readers?

I consider this interview by SuperLawyer to be a great opportunity to talk about my somewhat unique legal background. I’m a Senior Partner at BananaIP Counsels (BIP) where I focus on IP licensing, commercialization and strategy. All of my higher education has been in the US, including my Juris Doctorate, which after completing I worked for several Fortune 500 companies before returning to India. I’m passionate about teaching and hope to share some my experience with SuperLawyer’s readers.

Are you a first generation lawyer? What inspired you to take up law as your choice of career?

Yes, it is true that I am a first generation lawyer from my family. I happened to relocate to the US during my school years. Being raised in the US, the two most respected professions that you learn to aspire towards are Medicine and Law. In fact, I went to college to pursue Medicine but within a short time realized I wasn’t cut out for the rigors of medical school in the US. So the next best choice, Law. I foolishly left believing law school would be easier. I was in for a big surprise.

How would you describe your time at New Hampshire School of Law?

I pursued my Juris Doctorate from the University of New Hampshire School of Law (then know as Franklin Pierce Law Center), and a Masters in Intellectual Property, Commerce and Technology. Law school in the US is three years after your graduation. I found the first year, when the foundation courses in law are taught such as Contracts, Torts, Civil Procedure, etc. to be incredibly difficult. But as the years progressed I became more comfortable and started to excel. At my law school senior students are chosen to assist professors as Teaching Assistants. I had the privilege to be a Teaching Assistant for courses such as Technology Licensing and Alternative Dispute Resolution. I was a Member of the Licensing Executives Society an intellectual property club and also served as the President of the Indian Law Student Association.

What is your advice to students to avoid a decision paralysis in career options?

I strongly believe that nothing beats practical experience. One of the biggest weaknesses that I find when hiring new law graduates is legal analysis and writing. Our law programs unfortunately do not adequately prepare our law graduates for the legal profession’s realities. First, I would advise students to take maximum advantage of internships, not hop from one month internship to the next, you can hardly learn anything in a month. Pick a firm or an attorney who is willing to invest their time in you and spend at least three month with them. If at all possible return to the same firm for additional internships as you progress through law school. This progression in your legal learning and experience will pay rich dividends as compared to multiple one month internships. Second, I would tell students that a post graduate degree such as an LLM immediately following your basic law degree absolutely doesn’t make you any more attractive a hire than a basic LLB graduate. Grab a job after graduation even if on an apprentice basis and get the necessary exposure to various areas of practice. After a couple of years you’ll have a good sense of what specialization you like and would like to make a career out of, then pursue a full time, or my recommendation, a part time graduate degree to specialize. Why part time? Unless you get admission into a top graduate program either in India or abroad, pursuing a full time program at the cost of work experience adds almost no value to your resume. So if you are one of those who isn’t lucky enough to get into a top graduate program, then continue working and building your portfolio, and pursue a part time or distance education specialization degree in an area of your interest.

What are the differences you find in the working environments between the US and India?

Having lived abroad for many years I had this yearning to return home and make something of myself here. I did my homework and felt there were greater opportunities in India than anywhere else. Though financially I would have to take a step back in the beginning, in the long run I could more than make up for it. The sophistication and professionalism of the Indian legal practice improves year on year. I don’t think it is fair to compare the conditions here with any other country as the working environment can vary drastically based on local circumstances. India’s legal industry is in a constant evolution as a result of the fast growing economy and continues to reshape itself every day. This is great for all of us in the legal fraternity as we are the ones determining what our environment looks like. This however might not be the case in places like the US which as a developed economy has a more stable legal working environment.

What inspired you to choose IP law as your area of expertise?

My choices were either International Law or Intellectual Property Law. I chose to specialize in Intellectual Property Law as University of New Hampshire School of Law (formerly Franklin Pierce Law Center) where I got admission, had one of the leading IP faculty in the world and was a highly ranked program. So if you ask me honestly, though I went to Franklin Pierce to just study law, my interest in IP grew and I ended up doing a second degree specializing in IP, because I was surrounded by some passionate IP professors and fellow students.

Tell us about your early professional experiences.

The economy was quite poor when I was graduating and there weren’t many legal jobs to be had. I was one of the few lucky ones in my batch, I ended up with a contract position with a large multi-national organization working on financial securities though I had no background in this area. You had to take what you could get. Luckily within a few months I was able to move into a full time position with the same organization working on IT and technology licensing. This started my career and I decided to focus on this area for the first several years.

How important is to have a mentor or guide during the formative years of one’s career?

Unfortunately I did not have an appropriate mentor during the formative years of my career. I’m not sure now, looking back, if I just couldn’t find one or if I was not open to having someone as a mentor. Nonetheless, it is very critical to have someone play this role in a young lawyer’s career as the journey can be professionally and personally complicated. During the initial years of my career my primary focus was financial advancement. I was constantly looking for the next opportunity that would pay me more. This I realize now was at the cost of some good jobs, with good bosses and colleagues, and great learning opportunity. Nobody was there at the time to tell me this. When I mentor young attorneys or students today, the first thing that I ask them to do is to choose the right boss and not chase pay. If you learn the right things in the formative years of your career then pay will automatically follow. Be patient.

On what parameters do you choose the projects you work on?

My focus areas at BananaIP Counsels (BIP) are IP licensing, commercialization, and strategy. This applies to various sectors such as Media & Entertainment, IT/Software, E-commerce and Manufacturing. We have a very collaborative approach at BIP and a flat hierarchy. It isn’t uncommon at our firm to have our associate attorney’s lead projects with support from Partners unlike some firms where the Partner is always at the front. Therefore a good amount of my time is spent on mentoring associates on projects rather than actually working on them. I do consciously build a specific body of work and this is dictated by what our clients ask us. The last few years the sophistication of IP in the Entertainment and E-commerce industries has drastically increased and we at BIP have made the conscious effort to up-skill ourselves to meet the demand and capture the opportunity.

What are the roles and responsibilities that you are entrusted with as a Senior Partner?

Most people assume that as an attorney you spend all your time on researching, writing and advising clients on legal matters. That is partially true. I spend about half my time on client matters. The other half, I have been entrusted with the responsibility of client engagement, client relationship management, some aspects of operations such as HR, Marketing and IT for our firm. For me it is a balancing act between client projects and operations, one cannot be ignored for the other.

Could you share with us some of your experiences from the high profile entertainment litigations you have worked on?

We at BIP have had the opportunity to represent and advice some of the leading film studios of India. In their business of content creation and monetization it isn’t uncommon to deal with mis-use and infringement on a daily basis, especially with the prevalent options available to infringers through digital media. Litigation is a very small part of our work in the Entertainment industry; most of our efforts go into contracts as related to engagement of talent, licensing, merchandizing, distribution, and the provision of legal opinion.

What are the challenges you have faced in building up your career as it stands today?

IP is an evolving area of law in India and has gained prominence over the last decade.   When we started out we were somewhat ahead of the times, there wasn’t much of a demand for our specialized legal services. However in time, we have come to be recognized as one of the pioneers of IP in India. It has taken a lot of effort, and we have probably spent equal amounts of time in educating the client and industry about IP, as much as working on their projects. Over the next five years I see myself focusing further on areas such as Entertainment and E-commerce and building a steady set of key clients for this practice. I also see great opportunity in IP valuations and commercialization and this is an area that I will dedicate time to exploring.

What are the key attributes that one must develop in order to excel as an IP lawyer?

IP has the ability to transcend beyond mere interpretation and application of the law. The commercial and strategic elements of IP practice in my opinion play a larger role. For example, in a software licensing deal, an IP lawyer has to not only think about what laws to apply to the transaction, but also consider how best to get the business deal through without being a legal show stopper. For many IP lawyers looking beyond law becomes a challenge. I fortunately through my first few jobs had the role of a deal maker rather than just a lawyer. As a part of these roles I had to learn to represent an entire organization’s requirements, from Sales, R&D, Finance, and Legal while negotiating and putting win-win technology licensing and collaboration deals in place. I still rely heavily on these skills in my practice today.

How has your experience been as a visiting faculty at Alliance University and IIM Bangalore?

Based on my experience of having taught IP at various law schools and having hired many law graduates, I would say our legal education should get a little more practical. There should be a stronger emphasis on teaching students legal research and writing as well as create greater opportunities for first-hand experience. As I had addressed in a previous answer, I had indicated that multiple one month internships, which is the norm in Indian law schools, practically serves no purpose other than getting you to see the nice chairs and tables at a firm, and before you know it, the internship is over. Rather, students should be given the opportunity to intern for a minimum of three months at the same firm or company during each year of law school. Secondly, law schools should create law clinics, which are credited full term courses in areas such as IP or Criminal Law, etc… Clinics are led by a professor and the students would work as associates managing real cases on a pro-bono basis. I was lucky enough during my law school days to counsel real clients as a part of my IP and Commercial Transaction Clinics. Yes, I do have plans to spend more time in academia once certain goals that we have been set for BIP Counsels are achieved.

How do you manage to maintain a work-life balance as a busy legal professional?

It becomes easier to achieve work-life balance when you gain some seniority in your profession.   If you don’t break away from thinking about work during some point in the day, for example I stop checking work emails once I reach home in the evening, over time you tend to get worn out and your interest in your work starts to diminish. These days however it is very difficult to achieve this because of smart phones where you are constantly connected and always reachable. Sometimes I just make a conscious decision not respond to an email or answer a call when I know that it can wait till tomorrow.

How do you keep yourself abreast with the latest legal developments and industry news?

This is a very important aspect of the legal profession, the learning can never stop and if it does you are no longer of value to your clients or your colleagues. We at BIP Counsels address this in a couple of ways, we actively teach at leading institutions, and we regularly write and publish.   Teaching forces you to keep up with a subject through research and preparation of course materials for smart and inquisitive students who will keep you on your toes. We also manage one of the world’s top 10 IP publication’s, Intellepedia – IP News Center , where we actively write about IP matters and news.

What advice would you like to give our readers?

Your legal career is a marathon and I can guarantee you it will never go just as you planned. Be flexible and open to new opportunities. Remember the legal profession in India is still evolving, and the demand for qualified legal professionals is constantly increasing. We have more options today beyond traditional practice. Be open to in-house positions, LPOs, academia and others. The first five years of your legal career should be dedicated to learning. While a decent salary is very important please don’t make it your primary priority in choosing a job. In the long run, the bosses and colleagues th
November 29, 2017
Fred Rooney, Attorney-at-Law, on being Fulbright Specialist and Global Advocate for Justice
Fred earned his J.D. from the City University of New York’s (CUNY) School of Law in 1986. In 1998 he returned to CUNY Law to direct a “unique public/private partnership” that offered a network of support and resources for CUNY Law graduates committed to increasing access to justice through their solo and small firm practices. The New York Law Journal, New York Times, Legal Times and American Bar Association Journal have highlighted Fred’s successes and bar associations and law school faculty and administrators across the US rely on Fred’s work when designing their own post-graduate programs.

In January 2010, Fred was awarded the 2010 Father Robert Drinan Award by the American Association of Law School’s (AALS) and on February 5, 2010, he accepted the American Bar Association (ABA) Standing Committee on the Delivery of Legal Services’ 2010 Louis M. Brown Award for Legal Access, which was awarded to CLRN. The Brown Award recognizes innovative programs that meet the legal needs of those who do not qualify for legal aid yet still aren’t able to afford typical legal fees.

In June 2013, Fred completed a ten-month Fulbright in the Dominican Republic where he launched the first law school incubator outside of the United States. Three months later, the American Bar Journal named Fred a “2013 Legal Rebel” and recognized him as “the Father of Incubators”.

On February 5, 2014, the U.S. Department of State’s Bureau of Educational and Cultural Affairs (ECA) and the Institute of International Education’s Council for International Exchange of Scholars (CIES) added Fred to its roster of Fulbright Specialists. Since October 2014, he has traveled to Pakistan on four occasions to conceptualize an incubator for recent Pakistani law graduates. Fred was in Islamabad on April 26, 2016 to take part in the formal launching of the first incubator for lawyers in Asia. He is currently an adjunct faculty member at Texas A&M University School of Law.

In this interview we speak to him about:
- Being Commissioner of the ABA’s Commission on Hispanic Legal Rights & Responsibilities
- His engagement with Community Legal Resource Network (CLRN)
- His experience thus far and plans for the future
Why did you choose to pursue a degree in law, amidst the many options that you had?

After graduating from college, I was employed as a social worker and English instructor for immigrants. During my years working with immigrants, I was able to see how difficult life is in a foreign country where immigrants are not always welcome. Many of my clients/students were victimized by discrimination and racism. I realized that to be more effective as an advocate for the most marginalized and vulnerable members of my community, I needed to become a lawyer.

Tell us a little about your days in law school, at City University of New York School of Law.

I was delighted to be accepted to the City University of New York’s inaugural class in 1983. Many of the reasons I chose CUNY Law are stated on its website. For example, “CUNY Law students bring a passion to make a difference in their communities”. CUNY Law gives them the tools to make that change. As the nation’s premier public interest law school, we are driven by a mission to enhance the diversity of the legal profession and graduate outstanding attorneys intent on creating change for the better. A CUNY Law education prepares lawyers who are ready to right the wrongs, stand up for the underserved and fight for social justice.

I thoroughly enjoyed my three years of legal education since as a student, I was able to travel to Latin America, work on issues related to equality in public education, teach juveniles housed in a New York City detention center and develop the skills I would eventually need to practice law in accordance with CUNY Law mission to further “law in the service of human needs.”

What are the subjects that you took particular interest in, during your law school days?

I enjoyed CUNY Law’s clinical approach to learning and courses I took in constitutional law, legal reasoning and writing and a course titled “Liberty, Justice & Equality.”

What were your initial years after graduation like?

Because I chose to practice public service law, my first years after graduation were challenging because my income was so low and I had a family to support. There were times when I was tempted to enter a corporate firm, but I’m glad that I was able to stay true to my deep commitment to using my education, training and privilege in society to help clients of moderate to low incomes. I also learned the value of pro bono service and tried to provide either pro bono or reduced-fee services whenever possible. I learned that to do good in one’s community, you had to do well. Doing well to do good are not mutually exclusive goals.

Tell us more about Community Legal Resource Network (CLRN) and the kind of activities that it engages in.

Thirteen years after graduating from CUNY Law, I returned to launch a network for CUNY graduates who, like myself years before, need a helping hand to start law practices with a strong social justice component. We developed CLRN as a way of supporting our graduates as they opened solo or small firm practices and offered around-the-clock mentoring in how to create economically viable law practices and how to develop one’s professional lawyering skills.

You’ve been designated the “Father of Incubators”. Kindly explain the concept of legal incubators, for the benefit of our readers.

In response to a crisis in access to civil justice in and around New York City, CUNY Law launched the first program in the nation to train recent law school graduates. Begun in 2007, CUNY’s Incubator for Justice was designed to assist CUNY Law graduates to develop the skills needed to set up and sustain economically viable small legal practices. Special emphasis was placed on developing solo and small-firm practices equipped to address the ever-growing unmet legal needs of moderate to low-income New Yorkers living in legally underserved neighborhoods. The incubator was modeled on similar programs around the nation for small business owners. Business incubators in general aim to assist start-up business owners by providing the training participants need to enhance their professional and business skills.

The goal of the CUNY incubator was to offer its participants the same sort of training that new associates receive when they join law firms, corporations and governmental or legal services organizations. Once hired, associates receive immediate access to professional training and support, and they have mentors to help with almost every aspect of their professional development. CUNY Law wanted to ensure that its graduates venturing into solo or small-firm practice had the same sort of access to quality training and mentorship as new associates.

Since the Incubator for Justice was crafted as a stand-alone project for a maximum of ten lawyers, at no point in its development or implementation did anyone imagine that the new initiative would take on a life of its own and turn into a movement in the United States—and eventually abroad. The expansion of incubator programs was due, in large part, to the economic chaos that began in 2008. As law schools, and eventually bar associations, were faced with a severe lack of job opportunities for law graduates and newly admitted lawyers, the idea of creating incubator programs became increasingly more attractive. Additionally, the economic downturn left greater numbers of people in the U.S., already ineligible for publicly funded legal services, without the resources to retain private counsel. In many ways a perfect storm led legal institutions to consider incubator development to fill a sorely needed gap in opportunities for new lawyers and access to competent and affordable representation for people of modest means.

What legal incubators are doing:

According to the 2016 Comprehensive Survey of Lawyer Incubators, published by the ABA Standing Committee on the Delivery of Legal Services and the Lawyer Incubator Directory, more than 60 incubator programs exist today. Additionally, the survey indicates the following:
- Although the first incubator emerged in 2007, three-fourths of them that responded to the survey have been created since 2014. Some of them have very recently “graduated” their first class of incubator participants, and a few have not even reached that point.
- The nature, structure and design of incubators vary greatly from one program to another. The survey demonstrates that the development of incubators has been organic. There is no template for their design and operations. While many are sponsored by law schools, several are collaborative efforts, and some are sponsored by other entities such as bar associations and foundations, legal aid programs, law firms and nonprofit organizations. The services offered by incubators, the funding sources and the range of legal services provided by the participating lawyers to their clients all vary considerably from one program to another. The ABA and the Consortium for Access to Justice have provided resources to help incubators share information but, nevertheless, programs tend to reflect the needs of both their communities and their participating lawyers in unique and varied ways.
- Incubators are aggressively advancing social responsibility through pro bono services and orientations to low- and moderate-income populations. The common denominator running through most incubators is their dual mission to prepare recently admitted lawyers to develop and launch new practices while at the same time providing services to underserved populations. Pro bono is a fixture in seven out of every ten programs.
- Incubators are providing their participating lawyers with an array of educational and practice management tools. In-kind support from legal service vendors enable incubator participants to test-drive a wide variety of resources designed to support their practices, create efficiencies and enable the delivery of services at lower costs.
- Innovation is stressed in many programs but has room to grow in others. Several of the programs are introducing concepts such as unbundled legal services, niche markets and alternative billing structures, but some focus on more traditional practice methods. This points to an opportunity for the larger community of incubator programs to draw from the resources of one another and suggests that some level of peer-to-peer technical assistance can expand an environment of experimentation.
What motivates you?

My parents and other family members taught me the value of “giving back” to the community many of the blessings that had been bestowed on me. When I was young, I always believed that I could change the world. As I got older, I realized that changing the world wasn’t a realistic goal but helping to change the lives of individuals so that their lives were more rewarding and fruitful was a more achievable goal. Once I became a lawyer, I quickly found out that lawyers can be catalysts for social change, brokers for justice and equality and valuable members of society when they use their knowledge and skills to ensure the rights of each individual in our community are respected and protected.

Is there something you’d change about the legal education system, if you had the opportunity?

I believe that law schools have an obligation to do more that simply confer law degrees. Given the astronomical cost of legal education in the US, law schools should continue to provide education, training and support to its graduates. The Carnegie Foundation’s Report on Educating Lawyers will lend perspective. Law school provides the beginning, not the full development, of students’ professional competence and identity. At present, what most students get as a beginning is insufficient. Students need a dynamic curriculum that moves them back and forth between understanding and enactment, experience and analysis. Law schools face an increasingly urgent need to bridge the gap between analytical and practical knowledge, and a demand for more robust professional integrity. Appeals and demands for change, from both within academic law and without, pose a new challenge to legal education. At the same time, they open to legal education a historic opportunity to advance both legal knowledge—theoretical and practical—and the capacities of the profession. Legal education needs to be responsive to both the needs of our time and recent knowledge about how learning takes place; it needs to combine the elements of legal professionalism—conceptual knowledge, skill and moral discernment—into the capacity for judgment guided by a sense of professional responsibility. Legal education should seek to unite the two sides of legal knowledge: formal knowledge and experience of practice. In particular, legal education should use more effectively the second two years of law school and more fully complement the teaching and learning of legal doctrine with the teaching and learning of practice. Legal education should also give more focused attention to the actual and potential effects of the law school experience on the formation of future legal professionals.

From your experience in legal writing, please share with our readers the kind of topics that one must write on if they hope to gain recognition for their ideas.

One should write on a topic for which the writer feels a sense of passion. Writing to help advance one’s passion or commitment to a particular idea or ideal makes writing so much more enjoyable. An article that I wrote for an American Bar Association publication on how pro bono work produces good karma was easy to do because the contents of the article flowed from my life experiences and from my heart. The written word, when used for the right purpose, can be a powerful tool to espouse one’s beliefs, as seen through social media, and to advance the idea of using law as a tool to advance liberty, justice and equality in any society.

What do your responsibilities involve, as Commissioner of the ABA’s Commission on Hispanic Legal Rights & Responsibilities?

The mission of the ABA’s Commission on Hispanic Rights and Responsibilities to address the challenges and responsibilities facing Hispanics in and within the legal system of the United States. It strives to accomplish the following:
1. To provide expertise and resources to develop partnerships among internal and external constituencies of the ABA in order to address the legal issues, that are common to other underserved populations, but within the context of the experiences of Hispanics throughout the United States.
2. Propose solutions and approaches for the legal profession to meet the opportunities and challenges of the Hispanic community that are exacerbated by such factors as, but not limited to, rapid population growth; language; citizenship and immigration constraints.
3. Monitor and promote policies that address the unique legal challenges and responsibilities facing Hispanics in the United States.
4. Develop and support community education efforts, in both English and Spanish, to inform Hispanics about their legal rights and responsibilities on key legal issues such as employment, housing, education, health care, criminal justice, voting rights, and immigration.
5. Create and advance models through the development of tool kits, social media and communication methodology to transform judicial constructs, legal structures and infrastructures to better address the needs of Hispanic communities, particularly in the areas of language and access to education, employment, and improved public images.
Is there any other suggestion you would like to give to our budding lawyers?

As the Quaker missionary Stephen Grellet once said, “I expect to pass through this world but once; any good thing therefore that I can do or any kindness I can show to any fellow creature, let me do it now. Let me not defer or neglect it for I shall not pass this way again.”

As lawyers, we have the potential to engage in the ongoing creation of a world that truly strives to embrace the notion that all men and women are created equal and therefore deserve to be treated as such. Helping to improve the lives of the most vulnerable members of our community, while also ensuring that we are able to adequately support ourselves and our families, will make the practice of law more analogous to a vocation than to a profession and will inevitably make that world a better place in which to live.
May 23, 2017
Andrea Chavarria, Founding Attorney at The Chavarria Law Firm, Dallas, on practicing in international immigration law
Andrea Chavarria is an American lawyer and business owner who works on immigration issues at the Chavvaria Law Firm in the Dallas/Fort Worth Area. Andrea after completing her Bachelors on Journalism in 2004 from University of Texas, went ahead to pursue a year long masters program in International Law and Diplomacy from Schiller International University. Thereafter Andrea joined the Juris Doctor programme at Thomas M. Cooley Law School and qualified in law in 2009.

Andrea pursued a few more short term courses at University of Geneva, the Hague Academy of International Law and at the School of Advanced Study, University of London.

In this interview, she speaks to us about:
- What motivated her to pursue law and take up immigration issues
- How her experiences at the Hague, the University of London and the University of Geneva impacted her
- Her pro bono work with CARA
- Her views on the immigration issues and refugee laws, as well as her expectations about the evolution of policy in those areas
How would you like to introduce yourself to our readers?

I was born in Mexico and raised in the United States. I am an attorney and business owner in Texas. I love traveling, reading, listening to live music, and tacos.

Growing up in America, what motivated you to take up and pursue a career in law?

As a kid, I would watch my mother help out people in our community. They were usually people who had just moved to the United States or who didn’t speak English. I knew that I wanted to help people as well. It wasn’t until I got to college that I realized that I wanted to become a lawyer. As an immigration attorney, I have the opportunity to help people in a way that positively changes their lives.

What prompted the switch from journalism to law? How do you think the two professions differ with respect to the impact you can make towards social justice and change?

I originally wanted to become a journalist so I could write about politics, laws, and human rights issues. I was taking a lot of political science classes in college and that’s when I realized that I wanted to work directly with people and the law rather than write about it.

The two professions differ but both professions are necessary in order to have an impact on social justice and change. Immigration attorneys can have a direct impact on someone’s life, which in some cases can be a matter of life or death. For example, I represented an individual who, if returned to his home country, would be persecuted by his home country because of his religious beliefs. We won the case and the individual was able to remain in the United States where he can openly practice his religion.

Journalists are important. They can have a broader impact because they are able to present an issue to a wider audience. There was a particular judge in an immigration court who was known to be ruthless towards children in removal proceedings. Complaints were filed by several attorneys, but nothing changed until a newspaper published an article about the behavior of the judge. Soon after, all of the children cases were removed from the judge’s docket. That’s just one example of how journalism can have an impact on social justice and change.

Consequently, how did your experience as a legal assistant/intern change your views on the ground realities of the practise?

It wasn’t until I worked as a legal assistant and as an intern that I realized how much work goes into one case and how important it is to have a good team working together. Attorneys generally get the credit, but assistants, paralegals, interns, and other staff members deserve credit as well. It really is about teamwork.

Your extensive work as a volunteer covers refugees, family detention, mentoring, etc. What motivated you to take up these causes?

Through my practice, I realized that there was a great need to help certain individuals who were fleeing their countries, but who did not necessarily have the funds to hire an attorney. In the United States, individuals who are in removal proceedings are not afforded an attorney. Even children as young as three years old are not provided an attorney. These individuals are often seeking asylum. Having an attorney can often make a difference in someone’s case. Everyone deserves to have the right to put forth the best case possible. That’s one of the reasons why I am an advocate for volunteering and working with refugees and fighting against family detention centers.

I also do volunteer work through the Dallas Bar Association and Dallas Hispanic Bar Association. I enjoy volunteering with these organizations because I get to help my local community. It’s important to give back to your community.

To what extent did your education at The Hague Academy, the University of Geneva, and the university of London augment your perspective on the immigration laws and other related issues within the U.S.?

My time at those institutions has taught me how intertwined the U.S. immigration laws are with international laws and human rights principles. When working on an immigration case, it’s important to not only look at our current U.S. immigration laws, but to also look at our international principles and obligations. In the immigration field, we have seen situations where the United States failed to adhere to its international obligations. We’ve recently seen this happen with the detainment of Central American women and children. The institutions mentioned above have helped me gain a better understanding of our international laws, obligations, and the complexities of enforcing these laws and obligations.

What would you like to tell the readers about your pro bono work with CARA?

I previously did some volunteer work with the CARA Family Detention Pro Bono Project. CARA was created due to the Immigration and Custom Enforcement’s (ICE) significant expansion of its family detention centers in Dilley, Texas and Karnes City, Texas. Women and children, who are often seeking asylum, are being detained in facilities that are inhumane and inconsistent with a fair and just legal process.

I spent some time at the detention center in Dilley, Texas where I assisted in representing women in their bond hearings, preparing them for their credible fear interviews, and informing them of their legal rights. All of the women I spoke to fled their home countries because they feared for their lives or the lives of their children. Some of the women had been in the detention center for months because they could not afford to pay the bond the immigration judge issued. Some of these bonds were as high as $15,000. Many of the women felt hopeless. A majority of them were traumatized. Others were stressed and worried about their children who were also in the detention center. Some children weren’t receiving adequate medical care. Other children weren’t eating properly and losing weight. It was shocking and heartbreaking to see women and children, who had fled their countries due to fear, be treated in such an implacable way. Unfortunately, these family detention centers still exist. Women and children continue to be detained in this centers. If it weren’t for CARA and the help of volunteers, many of these women and children would not know their legal rights. To learn more about CARA visit their website: http://caraprobono.org.

What drove you to establish your own firm in 2010?

It was a culmination of things. I was working for a particular law firm and realized that it wasn’t the right fit for me. I wasn’t sure what to do next, but I knew that I still wanted to work in the immigration field. I relocated to Dallas and soon after I realized that there were many people who were in need of immigration assistance. Both of my parents are business owners so I grew up with a business owner mentality. It was with their help and support that I made my decision to start my own practice.

Given the socio-political atmosphere within the country owing to the upcoming elections, how do you think immigration and refugee law and policy will evolve in the near future?

I would like to think that in the future we will have sound immigration laws and policies, but I don’t foresee it happening in the near future. In the last couple of years, I have seen how fear and xenophobia have affected refugees and immigrant communities. The state of Texas tried to block Syrian refugees from entering the state, which the federal government said it can’t do. That’s just one issue, but there are so many other issues that we have to deal with in the immigration field.

Overall, our immigration laws are complex. Advocates have been trying to push for some type of immigration reform for more than ten years. Congress has repeatedly failed to pass any type of immigration reform. The Obama Administration has deported more individuals than any other president. Recently, the United States Supreme Court issued a 4-4 split decision in U.S. v. Texas, which was a lower-court challenge to the expanded Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA) and Deferred Action for Parents of Americans and Lawful Permanent Residents (DAPA). The deadlock means DAPA and the expansion of DACA will not move forward.

There are numerous issues that need to be addressed within immigration law and the outcome of our next presidential election could gravely affect how our laws and policies evolve. Depending on who wins, we may see harsher policies and more deportations or we may see a push for comprehensive immigration reform. At this point, I’m unsure of what our future immigration laws and policies will look like.

As a lawyer, do you believe that it is a responsibility of those well versed with the legal statutes and policies to aid those without the resources to access this due procedure?

Yes, I strongly believe that individuals, such as attorneys, who understand the law have a responsibility to provide assistance to those without resources. One of the best ways to assist is by providing pro bono services through a non-profit organization or local bar association.

Summing up, what do you believe are the main obstacles to progressive immigration laws?

One of the main obstacles is Congress and its inability to pass a comprehensive immigration reform bill. Congress has been deadlocked over the issue for the last few years. On November 20, 2014, President Obama announced his executive action plan, which would grant deferred action to certain individuals. Some members of Congress believed that his actions were beyond the scope of his authority. His plan to bypass Congress was met with some controversy and once again, Congress killed any chance of passing a sensible immigration reform bill. Will Congress remain at a standstill? Only time will tell.

Another major obstacle is the misconception of immigration laws. There’s the rumor that giving birth to a child in the United States grants automatic citizenship to the parents. It does not. I’ve been asked why undocumented individuals don’t just get in line to obtain legal status. There is no one line. Some individuals may not have a qualifying relative to petition for them. In other cases, it can take more than 20 years to obtain legal status through a family member. The process isn’t as quick and easy as some might think. Another common myth is that most immigrants are in the United States unlawfully. While there are some undocumented immigrants, there are also various other immigrants who are legally residing in the United States or who entered the United States lawfully. All these types of misinformation are harmful because it undermines public support for immigration reform.

How do organizations such as AILA help change the status quo?

Change comes through advocacy. Organizations, such as the American Immigration Lawyers Association (AILA), play an important role in advocating for reasonable changes in immigration law. In April, I traveled to Washington, D.C. to participate in AILA’s National Day of Action. Several AILA members and I visited Congressional offices to explain why comprehensive immigration reform is necessary. This type of advocacy is important because it’s an opportunity to highlight the problems plaguing our current laws. It’s also a chance to give members of Congress and their staff examples of how our existing laws have affected immigrants, their family members, and their communities. Since it’s the role of Congress to pass legislation, it’s crucial to inform its members why certain laws aren’t working.

Finally, do you have any other advice for our readers, most of whom are college students?

You will make mistakes. We all make them. However, learn from your mistakes and always own up to your mistakes.
September 4, 2016
Iram Huq, Juris Doctor Candidate, Harvard, on interning at the UN, working pro-bono, and working in the US
Iram Huq is a graduate from WBNUJS, Calcutta, batch of 2011. She was a top ranker as an orator at the Phillip C. Jessup International Law Moot. She is currently a Doctor of Law at Harvard University, where she is also student of the Moot Court Board (2013-2014).

In this interview, we speak to her about:
- Getting a JD from Harvard
- Interning at the United Nations
- Taking time out for pro-bono human rights cases
Tell us a bit about your life before college.

I went to La Martiniere for Girls in Calcutta and was in the school’s debate team. That inspired me to write the law school entrance exams. I had studied science in plus two, and I liked Physics and Maths. Occasionally, I wish I had taken those subjects more seriously. I really enjoyed them conceptually, but I never saw myself as having a career related to either of those subjects.

I think that my debating and science background helped me to develop a more objective view of the world. I appreciate the subjective aspects of the law, but I can’t help feeling that our legal system tends to reward sophistry and obfuscation instead of real analysis. I do not have lawyers in my family.

What motivated you to choose law as a career?

I wasn’t really paying attention to what people thought would be an ‘acceptable’ career. My parents were very encouraging, and my teachers also thought that law would be a great choice, given my skill set. It helped that a lot of people graduate from national law schools with excellent, respected jobs.

I think middle-class Indian parents tend to be very conservative in estimating what careers are satisfactory for their children. However, I have learned that it is very hard to be successful at things that you do not enjoy. I am glad I was never pressured into choosing some other career.

Did your debating skills help you at Jessup?

Yes, that is absolutely correct. Debating is a great platform to learn public speaking. Once you understand how to put forward an argument in a clear and convincing way, you can apply that skill to any number of activities, including moot court. My father was also in debate teams of La Martiniere and St. Xavier’s so he was a great help. We had a teacher to coach us in school.

I will say my ‘mentors’ for moot court were my friends and teammates, Deepak Raju and Rukmini Das, who helped me understand the basics of moots and coached me during the initial auditions for the moot court team. (They were both excellent mooters before I had even considered moot court). I also learned a lot from my experience in Vis Vienna, and could apply those lessons to Jessup. Deepak and I were on a debate team together, and that’s how we started working with each other. It was a pretty organic process, and I would like to believe that all three of us learned a lot from each other. I am not a fan of hierarchical team structures where the senior mooters mentor the junior mooters: the best teams are those consisting of friends.

What are your thoughts on activities like mooting and article writing for journals?

I think that writing for journals is a wonderful educational activity, if you can do it. Unfortunately, I was always too bored of academic articles to attempt to write them (but that was a personal preference). I liked mooting because, in addition to the academic part, it allowed me to travel and work on a single, practical project. Jessup (and Vis, Vienna) helped me understand how the rest of the world views different aspects of international law, improved my analytical and writing skills, and taught me how to network in professional settings. I definitely think that law students should try either mooting or writing for journals, if not both.

Did you get any institutional support for internships from your college?

No, I did not. NUJS was remarkably reticent when it comes to helping its students get good jobs or internships. It left everything in the hands of students, which was a good thing since the administration was both languid and incompetent. I did network with some of my seniors in law school, who recommended places where I applied and later interned. On two occasions, I secured internships through personal contacts. Young students should not be ashamed of using their contacts to secure internships. It is a perfectly natural process. If you don’t believe me, watch this TED talk

How well do you think your education at WBNUJS prepared you for real world practice of law?

Honestly, I think we could do with less compulsory classes and more optional classes in law school. It is absurd to think that someone who only wants to be a securities transactions lawyer should be required to study jurisprudence or intellectual property. We were required to study so many things that were absolutely useless to me when I finally began clerking at the Supreme Court. And yet, I never had the opportunity to learn subjects that would become really important in my job, like lower-court trial procedure.

Additionally, our subjects were often taught in a completely academic manner, devoid of any instruction on how the law actually worked in practice. Finally, we never had clinics or any other option to learn through practical work. If not for moots and internships, my law school experience would have been completely inadequate.

I do have to say that I had some excellent professors, and their teachings proved to be very useful for me later on in my work. I think law schools need to work on rewarding quality professors.

Do you think being from WBNUJS helped your career in any way?

Yes. Even though I complain a lot about NUJS, I have to say that I was surrounded by very intelligent students and studied under some wonderful professors. Compared to other law schools in India, NUJS has an institutional presence that reinforces an academic spirit and encourages its students to learn the law. I’m very grateful to my peers for challenging me and helping shape the direction of my legal career.

Tell us what factors contributed to your decision to purse Juris Doctor from Harvard?

I did not want an academic degree, like the LL.M. I was certain that I wanted to work in a law firm in the US. I was applying at a time when the rate of legal hiring was depressed (it still is), and so I concluded that the JD degree was the best option.

What is the application procedure for a JD from Harvard?

Applicants have to sit for the LSAT, and submit a couple of essays (a personal statement, a diversity statement, and any other essays they want the admissions officer to consider). Needless to say, successful applicants usually have good LSAT scores and compelling essays. Quite a few people have asked me similar questions, and it’s hard for me to explain what constitutes a ‘compelling essay’. But there is a lot of information available on the internet and on LSAC.

I do not think that anyone can ‘hack’ their way into Harvard. My only suggestion is that applicants should be able to demonstrate a real vision of what they want to do with their Harvard Law degrees once they graduate. I do not think my own essays were particularly good, but I was able to make up for it during the phone interview. That is why I think that some imagination goes a long way.

The application also requires at least two recommendation letters. Applicants should make sure that they get letters from teachers/employers who really know them and are willing to bat for them. But some institutional weight is also a good thing. I had a letter from Justice Patnaik, for whom I was clerking at the time I made my application. I highly recommend that graduates clerk after law school. It’s a great opportunity to learn how judges and the justice system works. And if you do good work, you’ll have a recommendation letter from a high court or supreme court judge, which is invaluable.

As for scholarships: I am on a need-based grant at Harvard. Harvard Law does not have academic scholarships, as far as I know. Once you get in, you have to submit a lot of documents about your parents’ income and assets, and they assess a grant package. The whole process is very transparent, and applicants can find all the information on the Harvard Law website.

Do you plan to have a career in the USA?

Yes. I am currently working as a summer associate at WilmerHale’s New York City office. I hope to secure a job offer by the end of my internship, if everything goes well.

You have been a Chayes Fellow for 2013-14. What does the fellowship entail?

The Chayes Fellowship is awarded to first-year Harvard Law students who travel internationally for public service work. More information can be found at Chayes international public service fellowship

As part of your Chayes fellowship you were an Intern at United Nations Assistance to the Khmer Rouge Trials. Please share your experience of working at Cambodia.

Yeah, that’s what I did last summer for ten weeks. It was a great experience—I enjoyed working for the UN in Cambodia. I was working on the prosecution of senior Khmer Rouge leaders. I wrote a blog post about it: Blogs.law.harvard.edu

I gather that most of your internships have been concentrated in and around Human Rights organisations. Is it planned or they just happened?

I was looking for internships where I would get real experience in research, drafting and filing. It just so happens that large law firms in India rarely let interns shoulder much responsibility. Working for human rights organizations gave me a sense of purpose and also the opportunity to be far more involved in the projects to which I was assigned.

The firm where I work at present is WilmerHale; it has a large pro bono practice with substantial human rights work. One of my projects is an asylum case. WilmerHale’s pro bono practice allows younger lawyers to shoulder greater responsibility and learn the art of appearing in court. No firm can afford to provide these opportunities in high-stakes litigation, and so human rights work is a great way for younger lawyers to acquire this experience.

How do you manage Human Rights activities alongside the corporate world?

I am committed to Human Rights work, but I am not a fulltime Human Rights lawyer. My goal has been to work in the corporate world for quite some time now (I have to say that I joined NUJS hoping to be a human rights lawyer). I guess I am privileged, because a few US law firms allow you to do corporate litigation work while still fighting Human Rights cases. I do not think that the two goals have to be mutually exclusive: many US law firms are very profitable even though they allow associates time for different kinds of pro bono work.

Lastly, what would be your message to law students who want to pursue a career in human rights?

I would say that they should go for it. Personally, I find the Human Rights ‘world’ to be a little oppressive: there is a constant sense of urgency and sadness associated with Human Rights work which interferes with my ability to objectively go about my work. But God knows we need more people dedicated to this field. I respect Human Rights lawyers for their courage and tenacity in the face of all odds. I will acknowledge that money is important, and there is not much of that in the human rights world. But we would be wrong to conflate wealth with success. If there are people who are willing to dedicate themselves to this field, we need to respect their legal skills and talent even as we respect rich and powerful lawyers.
June 11, 2014
Kailash Gupta on a dual degree (JD+MBA) course from Cornell, work as a paralegal and the US Legal Industry
Kailash Gupta is studying for a dual degree course from Cornell Law School. The course will certify him as a JD and as an MBA on completion. Having been educated in the US he has deep insight of the US education system which he shares with us in this interview.

In this interview he tells us about:
- Working as a paralegal at NOVA IP Law firm
- Studying and clearing for LSAT
- Studying for JD/MBA from Cornell Law School and Johnson Graduate School of Management
- The top prerequisites for a legal career in the US
Given that most of our readers are law students and young lawyers, how will you introduce yourself to them?

Hi! I am Kailash and I am currently a JD/MBA Candidate at Cornell Law School and the Johnson Graduate School of Management. I plan to work in a New York City law firm as a transactional attorney.

Amongst the various career options, what motivated you to choose law?

My decision to pursue a career in law came after exploring many different career paths as an undergraduate. I have an undergraduate degree in Economics and pursuing a degree in law, with a focus in business law, seemed like the best way to satisfy both my intellectual and analytical needs.

You have been educated in the United States. How difficult would it be for others to integrate into the education system of US?

I was born and raised in New Jersey and have not completed any sort of formal education outside the United States. That being said, integrating into American undergraduate institutions or law schools should not be an issue for international students. At Cornell and other top ranked universities, school administrators and admissions officers have recently put a greater emphasis on attracting top talent from abroad. I commonly hear several different languages being spoken as I walk through campus (including my native Telugu). International students have several student groups on campus and many US-born students are eager to make connections with students from abroad.

You are pursuing Juris Doctor Degree from Cornell Law School. What was the application procedure? Are there any entrance tests?

Cornell Law School, along with the majority of other US law schools, require applicants to write a two-page personal statement along with optional essays, including addendums to explain any issues or weak spots in one’s application. Furthermore, each applicant is required to take the Law School Admission Test (LSAT).

How did you prepare for the entrance test? Please tell us about the top three things you kept in mind while preparing for the test. Would you say it was difficult to take the test?

The LSAT consists of a total of six 35-minute sections. The sections include one writing sample, two logical reasoning (LR) sections, one reading comprehension (RC) section, one logic games (LG) section, and one experimental section. The experimental section is either a LR, LG, or RC section and does NOT count to the overall score. The writing sample is also not incorporated into the overall score, though each school to which one sends his or her score will be able to view the essay.

Top US law schools have trouble comparing candidates across different undergraduate universities and majors. Unlike other graduate schools such as medical school, law schools do not require students to take specific undergraduate classes before applying. Therefore, law school admissions officers primarily compare students based on their LSAT scores. An applicant’s undergraduate GPA, major,and institution are secondary to one’s LSAT score. Work experience comes in as the third most important criterion. Therefore, high performance on the LSAT is imperative for gaining admission.

My basic approach was to first learn the strategies of taking the exam. Investing in exam prep materials is highly encouraged. Secondly, once I was equipped with the basic strategies of how to tackle each question type in each section of the test, I spent significant time taking practice sections and full-length tests.

After each test or section, I would review the questions I got wrong, identify the question type, and practice those specific types until I was able to consistently answer them correctly. A final point to remember is the exam takes over four hours to administer. Test-takers should prepare for the mental marathon that is taking the LSAT. The best way is to take full-length tests leading up to the exam date. Still, be careful not to burn out and make sure to be well rested on exam day.

What prompted you to choose Cornell for a JD? Were there any other Universities in mind?

I was fortunate enough to be choosing between two highly ranked law schools, Georgetown University Law Center and Cornell Law School. GULC and Cornell each have their strengths. GULC is located in Washington D.C., the nation’s capital. Its location puts it in close proximity to some of the greatest legal minds of the country, which include legislators, practicing attorneys, and even the U.S. Supreme Court Justices. Furthermore, Washington D.C. has more lawyers per capita than any other city in the country. Cornell, on the other hand, is a small school with a tight-knit community. Ultimately, its small size, elite faculty, extremely strong placement into big law firms, and strength in business law made it the ideal fit for me. I also completed my undergraduate degree at Cornell so I was fully accustomed to Ithaca.

You had received the ‘CALI Excellence for the Future’ Award. What qualified you for this recognition?

The Center for Computer-Assisted Legal Instruction is a non-profit dedicated to facilitating computer assisted legal education. The CALI Excellence for the Future Award is given to students who receive the highest grade in each course, each semester, in participating law schools. I received the award in my first semester for the Torts and Lawyering courses.

What does it mean to be on the Dean’s List at the Cornell Law School?

Dean’s List is given to students who stand in the top 30% of the class for each semester of grades.

How important do you think are internships in shaping up the career of a person?

Pursuing internship(s) as a law student is imperative in securing a job post-graduation. I am in a unique situation because I am pursuing the dual degree. Dual-degree students are required to take summer classes at the business school instead of pursuing a first-year internship. Most pure JD students either do research for professors or intern for a judge, government agency, or non-profit during their first year summer. At the end of the second year of study at the law school, most students, including the dual-degree students, pursue a summer associate position at a law firm.

The second-year internships are very important in securing a job post-graduation because the vast majority of big law firms extend full-time employment offers to their summer associates. While many law students do not plan to work in big law firms in the long run, many nonetheless pursue these second-year summer associate positions and even accept full-time offers. The reason is that it is generally believed that work in big law firms prepare you for a career in government or business.

You are also pursuing an MBA from Johnson Graduate School of Management. What motivated you to take it up? Would you say an MBA would better equip you in a legal career?

As a law student with aspirations to work as a transactional attorney, pursuing an MBA was a no-brainer. Transactional attorneys are constantly poring over business documents in their daily work. Furthermore, transactional attorneys are often called upon to advise their clients in making decisions that directly affect a client’s business.

Having a working knowledge of how large businesses operate, which an MBA will undoubtedly provide, is a major benefit when beginning your career as a transactional attorney. Furthermore, the opportunity cost of one-year’s worth of salary normally associated with pursuing a dual degree program does not exist in Cornell’s three-year program.

You began your professional career with NOVA IP Law as a Paralegal. How did you apply? What did your work profile consist of? Did it require knowledge of law?

I applied for the position through Cornell’s job posting website prior to graduation as an undergraduate. The position did not require any prior knowledge of law. Working as a paralegal is a great introduction into the legal field and serves as an opportunity for one to really decide if a career in law is the right one.

I worked in a small firm outside Washington D.C. and the experience solidified my desire to pursue a career in law. I assisted attorneys in legal research, edited and wrote contracts and court documents, and also took on all the clerical tasks associated with office management. Other than that, I also had the opportunity to manage several attorneys and paralegals working on a short-term basis in a document review project.

What does being a Paralegal mean? How different is it from being an associate at a law firm?

A paralegal is a legal assistant and serves essential functions in a law firm. Paralegals are often divided into two distinct categories, career paralegals and short-term paralegals. Career paralegals pursue the position as a career while short-term paralegals are often recent college graduates who are looking to work in the legal field before pursuing a law degree. Because I worked in a small firm I was able to take on some of the tasks that normally would be reserved for career paralegals in larger firms. A friend of mine worked as a paralegal in a large firm in Los Angeles and told me that several of the career paralegals were highly sought after by the firm’s partners when staffing different projects. Whereas first-year and second-year associates have minimal practical understanding of real world law practice, most career paralegals more often than not have a better working knowledge of the law.

Even in our Law course, our professors constantly reminded us to turn to the staff paralegals as sources of help when navigating the big law waters as a fresh-out-of-law-school associate.

What are your plans for the coming five years?

I plan to finish my degree program in 2016 and work as an associate in a law firm in New York City for the foreseeable future.

What are the top prerequisites for a successful legal career in the U.S. for people from other countries?

Depending on your career goals and aspirations, the unfortunate truth for international students aspiring to work in the US as a lawyer is that they must pursue a JD. Most LL.M. students I speak to tell me that it is very difficult to secure a job with a big law firm with just an LL.M. Many LL.M. students sit for the New York bar at the end of their programme and utilize their bar admission through international deals or litigation.

Beyond the degree itself, law firms look for strong oral and written communication skills and top grades regardless of the fact whether you are an international or a domestic student. International students should stay updated on the status of US legal employment market. The past seven years have been especially tough for law students in finding employment and a huge bracket of unemployed law graduates exists. The fair logical leap is that most firms, regardless of size, are going to choose a domestic candidate as the more costly international ones need to be paid higher.

Give us a few tips on finding out the right university for a J.D or an LL.M.

If any readers are interested in pursuing a JD or LL.M. at a US law school some helpful sources include:

top-law-schools.com: This website has helpful information on constructing personal statements, school profiles and rankings, LSAT preparation, etc.

lawschooltransparency.com: This website has helpful employment statistics for easy comparison between U.S. law schools.
June 10, 2014