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  • Aarthi Sivanandh, Partner, J. Sagar Associates, on building a corporate law practice, merging Vichar Parters and LL.M from Tulane

    Aarthi Sivanandh, Partner, J. Sagar Associates, on building a corporate law practice, merging Vichar Parters and LL.M from Tulane

    Aarthi Sivanandh graduated in commerce from Stella Maris College in 1997 before deciding to pursue law from Tamil Nadu Doctor Ambedkar Law University. Thereafter, she attended Tulane University (US) on a scholarship and graduated the masters course in corporate law with distinction. Soon after she worked in California briefly as a foreign legal consultant before returning to India in 2004. On her return to India she was part of the founding partner team for Universal Legal. In 2010, she co-founded ‘Vichar Partners’ which merged into J.Sagar Associates in April 2014.

    In this interview she tells us about:

    • Degree in Law after commerce and subsequent international exposure
    • Building a corporate law practice in Chennai
    • Experiences in founding a law firm and its merger with Jyoti Sagar Associates
    • Role of a partner at one of the largest firms
    • Work life balance and necessary skills of a young lawyer

     

    You are a B.Com (Hons.) graduate from Stella Maris College. How did you decide to join Tamil Nadu Doctor Ambedkar Law University?

    I never envisioned myself as a lawyer. In my final year of undergrad college at Stella Maris, I had won an advertising competition that awarded me an internship offer at HTA. My mother promptly found me a friend of hers who was a company secretary who persuaded me to join the course lest I am lured by what they believed as the glamorous world of advertising. A short introduction to the intermediate course at the institute and I was captivated by law, thus the road to join the University in Chennai to pursue a degree in law.

     

    Soon after completing LL.B., you went to pursue Masters from Tulane University Law School. Why did you decide to go for higher studies?

    I was interested in corporate law but there were no law firms in Chennai in the late nineties, the city was flooded with court counsels. Litigation was the only thriving practice area and the city was well known for its stellar attorneys’ bar. I decided to visit Bangalore and Mumbai for an internship and found the firms there unwilling to entertain me except for one. It was a struggle to gain exposure to transactional or corporate practice. It was the time after an undergraduate degree when I was keen to discover the world, find new experiences. I had also won two scholarships to study abroad, so I decided to put them to use and get a Masters in Law degree.

     

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    Tell us about your LL.M year at Tulane. How did this influence your career?

    My time at Tulane was rewarding and fun filled, both intellectually and personally. New Orleans is the third most interesting city in the US after New York and San Francisco; this drew me to choose the foreign lawyers LL.M program at Tulane. My class had almost 130 people from more than 25 countries. The historic city that had fought Spanish and French wars, its streetcar and Audubon park still alive from the 1840’s and a milieu of international students was the background in which my mind grew.–

    The enriching dialogues and conversations between professor and student, the Socratic method of teaching, the non-judgmental easy ways that gave every attorney the time to compare how they learnt the law at their home countries and how they articulated themselves, changed my 23 year old mind at very fundamental levels.

    Nothing was unacceptable in the system and there were no wrong answers, there were only ‘different’ answers – This was a huge change from the way I was educated in Chennai.

    I learnt to respect other views, state my own clearly, be financially responsible, manage hard work, independence and be comfortable with strangers. I decided to work in the Valley on graduation and came home after 2 years. And like every person who returns home, I wanted to come back to Chennai and change the way people viewed the firm culture and practice of corporate law.

     

    You have been a corporate lawyer for most of your career. What prompted you to take up corporate law? Share with us any experience which helped you to shape your career choices.

    My late uncle was a real estate lawyer in the 80’s and my father though retired as a public prosecutor continues to work in dispute resolution on a range of matters. I would ask them where companies and others who ran businesses go for their work and they would both reply that those clients’ litigation needs were taken care of in the city but for ‘other work’ they would go to Mumbai or Bangalore or Delhi. While I enjoyed practising with litigation teams in the US (The Chugh Firm), on my return I began to focus only on corporate and transactions law in India and particularly in Chennai.

    The challenge to marry the various nuances of the law with the intricacies of forward looking business is both an opportunity and challenge to the transactions and corporate law practice.

    Many commercial relationships succeed without the fear of legal enforcement simply by relying on the discipline of the parties’ motivation to be fair, their prospect for future dealing, and the increasing premium they place on reputation.

    A quality legal product or service would therefore be one that fine-tunes incentives by providing for a broader range of contingencies that will in turn dramatically reduce the costs of dispute resolution. The challenge to achieve this intricate balance calls upon several skills. This held great appeal for me as a practice area and catered to my need for cleanliness in human and business interaction.

     

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    Considering the fact that you started your career in California, was it easy for you to settle in the work environment of India?

    The style of work communication and managing client expectations were the big differences in the work environments. When I moved to Chennai in 2006 there was still no law firm that was organically grown in Chennai with a true concept of equity or partnership.

    I was a part of Universal Legal in Chennai, India for 4 years that helped me start my career when I moved home. It was an entrepreneurial foray to set up and learn the way forward in term of setting up a practice. However, in many ways there was no ‘senior’ in India whose coat tails I could hold on to, the only choice was to play natural, observe and learn. I settled in easily, it’s a great city and its home. The community places a premium on fair relationships and quality work which were encouraging when I started. Many friendships over the years have given me an insight into the work environment that is unparalleled.

     

    You co-founded Vichar Partners in September, 2010. How did the idea germinate? Any specific reasons why you chose the name “Vichar Partners”?

    I had not always wanted to set up my own firm but one is an amalgam of everything and everyone they meet. The idea of the firm germinated with the usual impatience some lawyers feel in believing that they could fundamentally change things and grow a firm that can have an impact. The energy it required and the excitement of possibilities fuelled me.

    By 2010, I felt I had enjoyed the city, represented and worked with many clients who were willing to work with a non-branded non-legacy firm and had earned the trust of some of the business leaders in the city. I had sporadically but constantly dreamt of an organically grown firm in Chennai, with all its partners in Chennai catering to everything clients need in Chennai had gained momentum. The timing seemed apt when I met my great colleagues and partners Vinod Kumar and Chitra Narayan. Everything seemed ordained and there just seemed no point in waiting anymore.

    We wanted to institutionalise and build a full service law firm and to create a platform that awarded and energised lawyers on merit. We were keen to grow a fast paced technology based law firm that would deal with clients, timelines and quality in an effective manner.

    Our name was coined by to reflect the first 2 letters of each of our names but also that in Sanskrit. Vichar meant an idea, thought or opinion which was what our firm was. We were bound in our commitment to quality and our common belief in the ethical practice of law and business.

     

    In April, 2014, Vichar Partners was merged with Jyoti Sagar Associates, Chennai and you currently work as a Partner at JSA, Chennai. What prompted this merger?

    Vichar Partners entered the market with large aspirations on being the “go-to” firm in Chennai for corporate, commercial, transaction and niche litigation work. We grew considerably well in terms of repute, associate strength and the quality of work we were handling but we did see market realities in a comparatively smaller geography. Talented young corporate lawyers were tough to find in Chennai as the city had deep roots based solely in dispute resolution and transactional work was getting outsourced which meant there was no investment in building younger lawyers in this area, or finding administrative paralegal support to handle large transactions.

    In our third year we found ourselves on other sides of the table with JSA several times, while internally we were intrigued and absorbed on the next level of growth for Vichar. A matter of timing and providence, the potential for a combination seemed complimentary to both our firms.

    Somasekhar from our Mumbai office was a significant influence when he first met us with the idea, later interactions with Murali from our Bangalore office, Amit from our Delhi Office and Dina from our Mumbai office confirmed we were on the right path to considering a merger. Of course, the powerful work ethic and integrity of the leadership of Berjis and Jyoti preceded the reputation of JSA and in the end it was almost a natural selection

    While some may try to refute this, I do believe that large law firms attract the best talent, provide superior training and mentoring, and would transform the inexperienced into an exceptionally skilled attorney. This in turn allows such firms to attract sophisticated clients, handle cutting-edge transactions and manage the greatest deal flows. A combination of these ingredients on a consistent basis offers the best opportunity to develop as a lawyer.

     

    What does a partner at a law firm like JSA do? What falls within the scope of your responsibility? Tell us about a typical work day.

    No day is like another. They are unstructured, sometimes meditative in working through a solution or reactive mode to urgencies or filled with telephone calls. Typically, the day is filled with interactions with potential clients, ongoing work and associates.
    A typical day would start with getting a handle on all the client matters going on, different transactions or other mandates involving opinions or structuring a business, that is either readying itself for a sale or targeting a purchase – the task of managing responses to all of them and understanding if their strategies fit within the walls of the law. I prioritize and coordinate with my colleagues who are working with me based on what stage each transaction or the firm’s involvement is at. Once the background work and schedules are set within the team, active participation in calls or negotiations begin, with each party at the table having multiple commercial requirements and legal must- haves. The forward looking protections that are required in an ever changing commercial background can require one to bring to bear an understanding of economics, commerce, industry and the law.

    Timelines can stretch for various reasons from parties posturing for the right leverage or purely for commercial purposes. The loop repeats and until innovative structuring, alignment of interests and final negotiations find balance– sometimes takes several months.

     

    What is the most challenging or stressful part of being a Partner at one of the most successful law firms in the country? Is it easy to have a work-life balance?

    Challenges are continuous, no piece of work is alike and the constant commercial and market changes require one to keep pace with it and opine within the four corners of the law The challenge is to use the right proportion of legal logic, commercial reasoning and fair persuasion on behalf of a client. Negotiations too are often like a puzzle, you may know where the piece goes but you also have to time when you place the piece in the puzzle so as to let others help you complete it. Being calm and composed in all kinds of crisis situations and timeline based advice is also a challenging aspect of the practice.

    No, it’s not “easy” to have a work life balance. Having said that, I don’t believe work to life balance should be 50-50, at different points of life the balance scale shifts sometimes 60-40 and at other times say 40-60. I have two kids aged 7 & 3 who like to do the typical things kids of that age do– play constantly, run, go to classes etc. With a good support system I manage to do some of it with them but not all. If you think of it all as a part of leading a “whole life” then it makes sense than try to slot each activity into a bucket of either work or life. A true partner/spouse who understands the nature of work can help immensely in keeping this balance. JSA is an even keeled firm, with a great set of people and that makes the road saner and easier.

     

    What kind of effort should a young associate put in to work to get it appreciated? What distinguishes an associate from a partner when it comes to work?

    A young associate should have a keen mind that should be somewhat of a sponge – that absorbs everything in and around, taught and not taught and a thirst to learn. The law school rote method won’t let you stay afloat in a law firm but resourcefulness and hard work will. There are no short cuts.

    The outside world and fresh off the boat lawyers are often enamoured by the pay a corporate practice offers but often fail to see the immense hard work that goes into the practice. There must be a very good reason other than money that makes one want to continue to pump in some very crazy hours, bear with challenging transaction requirements, clients who are bound to be low on patience if they are in stressed commercial situations and to sustain it all, for days to end– it’s a time vampire.

    Associates are central to a Partner’s practice. The more they learn and give the more they grow, the more they grow the Partner can expose them to a variety of work. No show is a one man show, the synchronised timing and effort of the associate team in building research knowledge, knowledge management, prompt interactions with clients on status updates or first level drafts and so can assist the Partner to build on the same to have deeper discussions, develop negotiation strategies, understand commercial requirements and enhance the quality of the practice.

     

    How important would you say are business development skills at such higher roles in a corporate law firm?

    The role of business development is a key component in a law firm. The firm has only one asset – its people. Amongst the people not everyone is required to concentrate on business development but is a requirement on the senior resources. If a senior resource can garner client confidence, provide resourcefulness and deliver as required the firms credibility grows. The larger the pool of senior resources the larger the palette of services the firm can successfully offer. The symbiotic relationship of different partners in the firm are the strong links the firm builds through its people assets in the community. I would say these skills are critical and second to none.

     

    Having a centralised HR what do you have to say about students writing to partners directly?

    JSA is a national law firm and our internship process, recruitment process – all HR functions are centralised. Applications are usually submitted at the internship or careers link on our website. Sometimes, students write to partners or associates they have met or have a relationship with through some other professional forums, while this affords familiarity with the candidate it still depends on the requirement of the location partners and of the firm at each level.

     

    When you hire lawyers under you, what specific skills and profile do you look for?

    Law school education is becoming more adept at providing attorneys with transactional skills. Generally, however, it still falls short. When I hire for my team, I look for students who worked extra hard to find some baseline transactional competencies or have devised ways to achieve them through internships, reading, taking courses at the institutes for extra focus on particular areas of law or part timing at corporate law firms.

    Given where things are in terms of corporate/transactional law practice outside of Mumbai and Delhi and given the gap between law school education and the transactional competencies that are required, it is incumbent upon the lawyer to be competent and take whatever steps necessary to educate herself to become so.

    Fresh graduates can build on their ability to understand business associations, basic advice about business structures, and draft documents related to business associations and secondly to investigate and understand facts and research the law in a given context (emphasis on due diligence).

    Working lawyers or lateral hires in addition to the above should be able to draft clearly, have thorough research skills, be able to walk a colleague or client through the process of identifying what the issues are, rules of law in play given the issues, applicability of law to the issues and finally a conclusion. They must be able to also identify and address the ethical implications of practice.

     

    What would be your advice to students who wish to go for higher studies?

    A degree for the sake of it would serve no end. However, some are geared to appreciating the jurisprudential thought involved and understand nuances better when the learning is organized through curriculum while others are adept to picking it up as they work with counsels or at law firms. A higher education abroad gives an exposure early on in a student’s career to the different styles practices and legal markets in the world. In my personal experience, these courses often help in wide network of friends in different regions and a style in writing and thought that could be unparalleled but I would not unduly overemphasise the need for a practitioner to obtain a master of laws degree.

     

    What would be your message to our readers who are budding lawyers and law students?

    Clarity in thought and expression is the single most important quality for a practising lawyer today. This assists in honing the ability to identify, evaluate, and understand business risks for clients and in turn offer appropriate legal advice. Invest in yourself constantly, by reading and understanding the rules of law both at home and abroad, this will enable one to compare contrast and therefore learn. The law is known to be a jealous mistress; you will have to give a lot to get some.

  • Somasekhar Sundaresan, Partner, J. Sagar Associates, on work of a transactional lawyer, responsibilites of a Partner, and his transition from Journalism to Law

    Somasekhar Sundaresan, Partner, J. Sagar Associates, on work of a transactional lawyer, responsibilites of a Partner, and his transition from Journalism to Law

    Somasekhar Sundaresan graduated in B.Com and then chose to study LL.B from GLC, Mumbai. He graduated in Law in 1996. He joined Times of India as an Assistant Editor in the Business Editorial section as a law student and had continued his work there for two and half years after graduation.

    With his experience in Journalism he moved on to the practice of law. His legal career began after joining work under Berjis Desai who was then a founding partner of Udwadia, Udeshi & Berjis. He worked at UUB as a partner and then moved on to his current role at J Sagar Associates, as their practice at UUB got merged with JSA.

    He started work as a port sector lawyer and later built up his practice in Securities Law and Financial Sector Regulatory at J. Sagar. It has been almost twelve illustrious years of his practice at J. Sagar, we have taken this opportunity to talk about a few very pertinent questions about the law and legal practice from his experience.

    We ask him about his:

    • Law school journey through GLC, Mumbai.
    • Work with Times of India and transformation from being journalist to a lawyer
    • Years of work experience in transaction, securities and the financial sector
    • Work at UUB and JSA as a partner and a core practitioner.
    • Necessary skills of a lawyer which can transform an Associate into a Partner

     

    Tell us a bit about your pre-college life as well as educational background. Did you have lawyers in your family?

    I have a Bachelor’s degree in Commerce, majoring in accountancy. I am a first generation lawyer. My father was a communications professional in the Tata Group while my mother is a major in English literature and a home-maker. I did not have other lawyers in my family.

     

    How did you decide to study law?

    I enrolled to study law because that is something I believe every human being should do. For me, the study of law was not really driven by a choice of career. Each one of us should be fully conversant with the rules of life, which is what law is. I got into journalism within months of enrolling for law, and thereafter my study of law was driven by the need to be a better-informed-and-more-legally-aware journalist. Over time, when things changed in journalism, I wanted to test my professional skills before it got too late. I thought I could always go back if the legal practice did not turn out to be good for me. I was lucky to meet the right person at the right time – Berjis Desai, now the Managing Partner of JSA. He is an extraordinary mentor, nurturer of human values and an open-minded leader who can promote, spawn and manage multiple lawyers without the slightest tinge of insecurity. His acceptance of my proposal to try my hand at law, and entrusting me with opportunities, was a motivating factor too, particularly when I was a complete stranger to the profession and to its noted and reputed members.

     

    Please share your law school experience at GLC, Mumbai. What do you think law schools, in general, can do to increase career-readiness among law students?

    GLC is an excellent institution and has given birth to many notable jurists who have served India’s legal system well. This ranges from the likes of Dr. B.R. Ambedkar to Mr. N.A. Palkhivala, and then to more recent alumni who sit or have sat on benches of many a high court and the Supreme Court of India. There was a sense of awe about the heritage when one walked into the college portals – to see Dr. Ambedkar’s name in the list of principals. GLC has had its challenges, of being a state-owned institution but some motivated faculty members and the students of the college keep its flag flying.

    When I studied law, a new national law school had been set up in Bangalore, and it had gained a strong reputation for its teaching infrastructure and the scale of its campus.

    GLC had two batches – one that would start very early in the morning until about 9:30 am and another that would start then and go on until a little around noon. Studying jurisprudential concepts so early in the morning, participating in moot courts, class debates and studying the library, marked the student life in GLC. I was part of the Legal Aid Clinic, and exposure to poor people without legal aid was an eye-opener component of the training.

    Study of law in Mumbai could be very solution-driven with pre-digested examination-oriented tools such as “Three Test Papers” and law summaries published in “Jhabvala” editions being in vogue. GLC was pretty much accepting of all – those who would choose these tools to getting past exams; and equally, those who would want to sit in the library and pull out case law and pore over treatises and come up with studied propositions.

    I think law schools today are already very “career-oriented”. The success of a law school is determined by the placement of its students in institutional employers or law firms. Some Vice Chancellors are focussed on getting star placements for their students and seem focussed on gaming the recruitment system. The relatively expensive fee for studying law drives students towards being focussed on money as a driver of career choices. The good students who get good placements in good firms and in institutional employers such as banks that pay large remuneration, are therefore becoming typical employees doing a day job that helps recover the considerable expense of getting educated.

    The practice of law is now less of a profession and more of a day job. Therefore, the law course resembles an MBA in more ways than one.

    I would, therefore, say law schools have to make some interventions to nudge the student’s mind slightly away from single-minded career focus.

    Law schools also need to engage with law firms and work out a reasonable institutionalised means of providing internships and practical training to students from varying backgrounds. It pains me to see the old-boy-network ruling the roost in internships now, just the way it did for the law as a career in the 1990s. Today, the entire process is very unscientific. Students are busy picking up internships with two or more firms in every vacation, gathering names of multiple law firms on their CV without any reasonable or realistic learning in that short time. For law firms too, such internships mean nothing, and truly the students gain nothing concrete spending just a few weeks in one firm. This clearly is an area that the profession needs to work on to improve matters for the state of the ecosystem.

     

    What were the biggest hurdles and challenges in your legal career in the first few years of graduation? How different would you say it was from those who had graduated a decade earlier?

    For about two and half years after I graduated, I continued working as a journalist. I made the shift late. This came with its package of challenges and hurdles. When I began, I had not truly spent a single day in a law firm even as an intern. Every challenge pushes one to realise one’s own inner strengths and helps in gaining confidence. I read old files and opinions voraciously. I read different types of agreements in varying situations.

    The Internet had become more widely available by then, and one could read agreements from across the world that were publicly filed with regulatory agencies. There are websites that provide so many precedents of real documents that have actually been executed by real parties in real-life situations. Therefore, the challenges were lower than what lawyers, say five to ten years elder to me would have faced when they had graduated.

     

    Please tell us about the transition from working as an Assistant Editor at The Times of India to working as a lawyer.

    The transition was tough and fun all at once. As a journalist, I used to focus on breach of trust by human beings, harming other human beings and the rest of society. The healthy scepticism expected of journalists played a major role in moulding my psyche, and I would treat everyone with distrust. Moving to practise law in real life taught me that one must presume bona fides in the conduct of other human beings. I realised that commerce can only occur when there is trust in one another, no matter how well one drafts the agreements that one signs. Contrary to popular belief about law and lawyers, real-life practice of law exposed me to a different dimension of human behaviour and I realised how truly trusting one has to be of others, and indeed be trustworthy, to be able to do well in the world of commerce. Accepting and acknowledging the pain of the counterparty is the only way one can bring about a reasonable bargain and balance of rights and obligations in transactions one handles as a lawyer.

    On the personal front, being an Assistant Editor in one of India’s largest newspapers brought with it a considerable reputation, recognition, and even fearsomeness. Chucking it all up overnight to start from scratch in a new profession required one to bring to bear one’s humility and abandonment of some delusions of grandeur that a powerful position tends to bring into one’s character. The transition was also eased by the fact that my “beat” as a journalist had been securities regulations. I had spent a lot of time and energy in understanding this area of law even as a journalist. Seeing the real impact of these regulations on businesses from close quarters as a journalist helped the transition to be a smooth one.

     

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    What were your responsibilities at Udwadia, Udeshi & Berjis? How did you move on to J. Sagar Associates later on?

    (Somasekhar worked at Udwadia, Udeshi & Berjis for the first four years of his legal career before joining J. Sagar Associates.)

    I had joined Berjis Desai who was one of the founders of UUB. He had told me that I should absorb as much as possible in my initial time and soon I would sink or swim along with my clients. He used to read all the drafts of the documents I initially wrote in that phase of my career. I learnt a lot from his revisions and corrections. He had his own style of handling inter-personal conflicts in aspirations among team members. Studying how he resolved them or even watched as they resolved themselves, helped me learn how to appreciate conflicting aspirations of other people.

    I began as a port sector lawyer and did a lot of work on container terminals managed by P&O Ports, a smart and commercially-savvy private ports operator led by an aggressive business leader called Captain Jimmy Sarbh. I learnt enormously from this relationship and it helped build my confidence. While I was earning my bread and butter from port-sector work, I also got many opportunities to represent clients in relation to securities laws, with appearances before the Securities and Exchange Board of India led by the then Chairman D.R. Mehta, and before the Securities Appellate Tribunal, then presided over by Mr. C. Achuthan, a remarkable judge. Each of these individuals was as compassionate as strict, and their treatment of cases I represented taught me a lot. My first very own client was the National Securities Depository Ltd., whose Managing Director C.B. Bhave, I had interacted a lot with as a journalist when he had been Senior Executive Director in SEBI. He reposed confidence and trust in me and encouraged me to focus on securities laws. He gave me my first “own” assignment, indeed trusting the firm I had joined, and me to do justice to his work.

    Over time, I got to build up the securities law practice thanks to the operational freedom that Berjis gave me. In 2002, Berjis met Jyoti Sagar of J. Sagar Associates. Their values and culture resonated so well that they decided to merge their practices. We were being wooed by other peer firms too, but the value fitment with JSA was wonderful, and remains so till date. Our team led by Berjis moved our practice into JSA, which gave us a national platform. At that time, JSA was present in Delhi and Bangalore, with a fledgling presence in Mumbai. We got a national platform to build on, and Jyoti, another exceptional human being, chaired the firm as a Founder while Berjis became the Managing Partner of the merged practice. Since then, it has been a long journey at JSA, a truly unique professional Indian law firm that has built and nurtured itself on certain core inner strengths to meet the typical challenges that any Indian law firm would face.

     

    What, according to you, are the skills required of an advocate aspiring to build a successful career in corporate law? How do we boost the faith clients keep on us?

    The first and foremost is to appreciate that the client is at the core of the practice. All that we do is linked to the existence of the client. Without the client, there is no practice possible, even in hard-core non-commercial litigation. Every lawyer should internalize the principle that the profession is not about himself but about the client. Yet, this does not mean pleasing the client against the client’s interests. This is a profession where you are paid to watch out for the client and tell him that he is wrong. Building this strength and the capacity to resist being a yes-man is the second critical skill that one has to develop. Third, it is important to build a pleasant and firm approach to negotiation. Be it litigation practice of transactional practice, being pleasant to other lawyers both within your firm and to those doing their job for your client’s counterparty, is a very important skill for success in law. When clients and counterparties see that you have a method to your approach and that you are not wasting time trying to win brownie points, they will enable you to succeed.

     

    When you see that a candidate you are considering to hire, is good at mooting, debating and has a few publications, how does it influence your decision?

    These are important skills because they would help me determine if the candidate is articulate, figure out how he thinks and what measure of professional circumspection he is able to bring to bear.

     

    How much noteworthy would you say CGPA is? Can work experience replace grades? Would you consider people who have worked efficiently but had a few repeat papers?

    Grades are merely a screening tool for entry into the profession. At JSA, we have never been big recruiters on campus in any case. To me, nothing can replace real work experience. One knows of academic toppers who are bad practitioners, and equally, of lawyers with unspectacular academic credentials having built enormous professional skills. This is not to say that those with academic proficiency are necessarily misfits for a good practice. One also knows of some delightfully academically-proficient lawyers, who are extremely successful and effective practitioners. If you are really good at your work, over time, it would show. After five to seven years in the profession, whether you had had a few repeat papers when you were in school would be irrelevant. Although, I must caution that the profession is headed in a direction that getting a good break into a career path would get increasingly difficult if you have repeat papers on the CV.

     

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    What are the skills that you look for when you hire lawyers under you? How do you reckon that law students should develop these skills?

    Apart from looking for the skills that I say above that lawyers need to have to succeed, I would really look for comprehension of core issues that are in vogue and the ability to connect the dots across different segments of laws and across practical factual realities. This is easier said than done. However, what I really look for is a strong emotional quotient. A lawyer is only as good as his emotional maturity. The intelligence quotient and intellectual capacity is to be taken for granted. The most intelligent lawyer who cannot handle others with compassion is of no value to me. Students should develop these skills by simply mingling a lot more with students from completely variant backgrounds and classes of society on campus. Travel and meeting people from around the globe is a critical contributor to emotional maturity.

    When you join a law firm, you earn a lot of money to enable travel. Whether you blow up your money over drinks every weekend or save something wisely to fund travel, is a matter of choice. When you meet people of varying background, you realise the commonality of dreams across humankind, and it will help break down prejudices. The alternative to travel is reading. Reading what others write exposes you to the same experience, and you gain from the story-telling by writers and are able to picture other people’s stories and relate them to your own. I would recommend a self-imposed mandatory quota of non-law reading hours per week, throwing in fiction for good measure.

     

    What all does a partner at a Law Firm like J. Sagar Associates have to do? What falls within the scope of your responsibility? Please tell us about a typical work day.

    A partner at JSA has to be a multi-dimensional personality to enjoy his work. He has to be able to connect with his team members and their aspirations. He needs to have the right balance between promoting everyone blindly to being so harsh that no one likes to stay back with him. The role ranges from developing trust in clients to be able to command work, to discharging his duties well, and to thinking about the welfare of his attorneys. Unidimensional lawyers tend not to do well at JSA.

    As the head of the securities law practice, I have to lead my team’s efforts in the practice and mentor teammates. I try to lead by example and help observant attorneys to learn by studying how I work.

    A typical work day starts early morning when the phone starts ringing with the Far East having gotten into work. It ends late in the night when the United States is getting neck-deep into the work day. On days when I have hearings at the Securities Appellate Tribunal, there is also a need to orient oneself before the hearing and there can be some uncertainty about when one would finish a hearing. Managing expectations of transactional clients in parallel can be quite demanding. Of course, one can make time for other interests to be accommodated within the work day, with some degree of social media exposure thanks to smartphones, but the profession can be highly demanding. The world normally just sees the glamourous side of the legal practice, choosing not to see the very hard work and effort that it entails to be able to buy the glamour.

     

    What is the transformation from being a retained partner to equity partner like? Are business development skills mandatory at such higher roles?

    A commercial firm at the end of the day has to run on commercial lines. It has to earn enough for the longevity of the institution and to continue to provide a financially secure environment for its stakeholders. Therefore, it is critical that a leader of a professional firm should have business development skills. If you cannot command the trust of existing clients for getting newer work, or the respect and trust of new clients, how do you run a practice? It is fallacious to think that one can be an equity partner without the capacity to be a thought leader in the market place. Therefore, one should develop the cutting edge skills of improving the command over other people’s trust in you, which is at the core of business development skills.

     

    When you accept interns under you, what kind of qualities do you look for? How do you say interns should go about their work so as to get noticed in a positive way in the limited time they have?

    I do not screen interns at all. JSA has an internship policy, and we have managed to build a professional HR policy towards internships. Increasingly, this has moved from the old-style of internship being a tool to please clients and stakeholders to one where we can derive value from human resources, and attract new quality talent for future leaders of the firm.

    First, interns should seek out a longer internship. Second, they should do so in advance. Even in this day and age, I get requests in May for internships in June. These are very difficult to accommodate in a manner that is of any meaning to the intern or to the firm. An ideal internship period would be of eight weeks. During an internship, the student should be a sponge and absorb everything that can be absorbed. Even if there is no specific work assignment that one is roped in, the access to a firm provides valuable access to how various professional work streams are handled – due diligence, research for opinions, contract-drafting, litigation filings etc. Interns have to seek to find opportunities to work and learn.

     

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    Tell us about the changes that occurred in your life after you became a partner. Did you ever feel that the workload had increased considerably? How do you maintain the work-life balance?

    The profession has become more and more demanding. The key to being a successful partner is in meticulously planning and working on making oneself redundant by building human resources and future partners who are worthy of clients’ trust. Shunning insecurity is a critical element to enable greater exposure of colleagues to clients and in building clients’ trust in one’s colleagues. Keeping an overall oversight of work delivery and quality is where a partner should focus on. Yet, gauging what the client wants in each situation and ensuring that the expectations are being met is a very important aspect of managing a practice. Even with all this, the workload can only increase, and one has to be disciplined about handling it.

    My work-life balance typically comes from writing my columns (weekly for the Mirror publications and monthly for the Business Standard) through the year, and more importantly from my travel both on work and on vacation. I ruthlessly take two to three weeks off annually without access to telecommunications so that I can recharge and re-balance myself.

     

    Your core practice area includes securities laws, mergers and acquisitions, and foreign investment in India. How do you keep yourself updated of the recent developments in the same areas of law?

    This is the era of information technology – it is not so difficult to find information on recent developments. Google alerts, RSS feeds and push services even from regulators can ensure that every recent development in your practice area lands up in your inbox every night. One has to keep the discipline of reading what needs to be read and ruthlessly sparing one’s eyeball time by shunning any reading of unnecessary stuff that digresses attention. The power of information technology makes the latter a challenge too. There is so much that social media throws in your direction that you have to be really disciplined in being discerning on what to read and when. This too is easier said than done.

     

    Please share a few words about your contribution to public policy in the financial sector.

    (As an active contributor to public policy in the financial sector, Somasekhar has been a member of organisations such as the High Level Committee to Review SEBI (Prohibition of Insider Trading) Regulations, 1992 and the Committee to Review Policy on issuance of Global Depository Receipts.)

    I am grateful for these opportunities. I have been lucky to have had excellent Chairmen in each of these committees – Mr. C. Achuthan for the takeover regulations, Justice NK Sodhi for the insider trading regulations, Justice B.N. Srikrishna on work relating to the Financial Sector Legislative Reform Commission, Dr. P.J. Nayak for the committee on corporate governance in the banking sector, to name a few.

    When you write law and policy, you realise how non-partisan one needs to be, and how one has to think of the larger interests of the nation and society. The law and policy govern multiple stakeholders, many of whom have conflicting objectives and desires. Good law is one that is easy to administer and respectful of the interests of various stakeholders. Working with this approach is also a big chance to think of the big picture in everything one does. It makes one a far more responsible professional.

     

    You’re also an Independent Director at Oxfam India. What has the experience been like so far?

    It is an excellent window of opportunity to do something concrete with the skills picked up in the profession. The lessons one learns at the Board of a well-run-and-intentioned NGO are invaluable. The exposure to professionals in the NGO space and their thoughts and ideas is a refreshing one. At the end of the day, any lawyer worth his salt is one who is conscious of the protections that the law affords to a people. Advocacy in the shaping of the law, enforcement of the law and indeed assistance in the governance of an institution are all complementary to a lawyer’s skills.

    For example, working with the Reserve Bank of India and the Government of India to secure approvals and shape India’s policy towards enabling Indian civil society and NGOs to respond to the calamitous earthquakes in Nepal has been a very rewarding experience. It is intellectually challenging as a matter of law and policy and at the same time, very satisfying emotionally for being able to add value to humankind beyond what one does as a normal commercial lawyer.

     

    What kind of effort should a young associate put into work to get appreciated? What distinguishes an associate with a partner when it comes to work?

    Attention to detail is the critical element. Research and insight into applicable law is a given. An associate who has basic diligent application to work would stand out. For example, one that weeds out definitions that are not used through a document, or non-capitalised usage of a defined term, cleans up repetition of an entire definitional phrase despite the term having been defined, would stand out for his attention to detail. On the other hand, an associate who does not pick these things up and merely reflects corrections made by the partner without uniformly pro-actively implementing the principle even in instances where the partner misses things out, would stand out as a below average resource.

    To me, the level of attention that an associate gives in a meeting or conference is also very important. If an associate takes no notes, behaves like a senior counsel, does not come back to you after a meeting with what is required to be done by the team, and instead waits to be told what to do, he would stand out as a below average resource.

    There are bright sparks who are really clued in, summarize what was discussed and what needs to be done and assist the partner to deliver value, and they have a bright future with me.

     

    Please tell us about the work environment at J. Sagar Associates. If a young associate commits a mistake or an error what course of action do you follow as a partner?

    We are considered to be a very benign and chilled-out workplace. To err is human and to forgive is divine. Of course, that does not mean I would not scream and shout when these human propensities in me are provoked. I have increasingly started focussing on teaching youngsters of my team about the specific mistakes they make in their draft documents rather than just clean up and correct the mistakes without investing time in explaining the mistakes. If mistakes are not picked out and explained, the young associates accept all the changes you make, and focus on delivery to the clients rather than learn about what went wrong and how to adapt the lessons for future assignments.

    A leader of the team should make this investment in the youngsters. Indeed, there are days when I could be perceived as being in a dangerous mood. I am told on those days my door is entered with trepidation. Yet, everyone in the team equally knows that my recovery from a temper tantrum is rather rapid!

     

    As a concluding message, what would be your suggestions to law students?

    Never lose sight of first principles of law. Every single time, go back to the first principles, the objects, intent and purpose of the law that you are handling, and you will never go wrong. Read the bare provisions of an applicable law every single time you consider a situation to which they apply. Do this every single time. Do not adopt the “boss is always right” attitude – it will not get you far and on the contrary it would erode the lawyer in you. This is a profession in which having your well-reasoned concurrence or dissonance is what is expected of you. Do not abandon reason at any time in your approach to the practice. “Because I say so” is one phrase that is alien to this profession.

     

     

  • Rimali Batra, Associate, Regulatory and Policy team, Trilegal, on pursuing BCL from Oxford, life at law school and varied work experience

    Rimali Batra, Associate, Regulatory and Policy team, Trilegal, on pursuing BCL from Oxford, life at law school and varied work experience

    Rimali Batra graduated from ILS Law College, Pune in 2010. After graduation, she worked at ICICI Bank’s Corporate Banking and Litigation team in New Delhi for a year. Thereafter, she pursued a BCL degree at the University of Oxford. After completing BCL, she joined Jindal Global Law School as a Research Associate. She subsequently accepted a job offer from J Sagar Associate’s Regulatory and Policy team and after continuing there for a while she went on to join her present office at the Regulatory team of Trilegal.

    In this interview she talks about:

    • Reading BCL at Oxford and tips on scholarships
    • Being a Research Associate at JGLS
    • Working at JSA and moving over to Trilegal

     

    Most of readers are budding and enthusiastic lawyers, how would you like to introduce yourself to them?

    I was born and raised in Delhi. I did my schooling from Montfort Senior Secondary School located in Ashok Vihar, New Delhi. Thereafter I went to ILS Law College, Pune to do my graduation in Law. After ILS Law College, I worked with ICICI Bank’s Corporate Banking and Litigation team in New Delhi. A year and three months later, I went to University of Oxford to read law. After BCL, I joined Jindal Law School, Sonipat as a research associate and worked there for three semesters. During the second half of 2014, I joined J Sagar Associate’s Regulatory and Policy team and worked on matters concerning power (Electricity Act, 2003). I was with Mr. Amit Kapur’s team in JSA for a year and have now moved to Mr. Sitesh Mukherjee’s Regulatory team in Trilegal. I have been at Trilegal for five months now. That’s been my journey thus far.

     

    You have had many interesting career switches from starting out as a banking lawyer then being a Research Associate at JGLS to your current profile at Trilegal. What all do you consider before taking these decisions?

    One is of course bound to be surprised at the changing courses of my career paths but then it was all a part of the plan, which I hope the readers will see as this interview answers unfold. All decisions that I have made till date connect, and connect wonderfully.

    rimali-batra-2I am a curious individual and don’t shy from taking risks. I have always been experimental in nature and challenges attract me and hold me. Call it my weakness, call it my strength. I believe that I perform well when I multi-task (It’s like enjoying the main course with some side dishes). That is how it has been since school days. For instance, in school I did not just study hard and well, but also trained myself to be a good basketball player (played national and international tournaments), a praiseworthy debater (both at the inter-school level and state level), a leader (school head girl) and a decent quizzer (inter-school level). Similarly in College, I did not settle for just being among the top 10 rank holder for all five years in the Pune University (ILS was one among the 20 odd colleges affiliated to the Pune University), but also represented ILS at various national and international level moot competitions, elocutions and paper presentations. At Oxford too, I read the BCL alongside playing basketball for the University of Oxford. And now whenever I have time and I am not working, I am doing either of the following – pro-bono advisory on energy laws and medical law and ethics, reading books, stock trading / following the market, writing and publishing stories or on issues of law that interest me, teaching English to underprivileged kids at home on weekends, part-time teaching at law schools or travelling.

     

    Did you have lawyers in your family or in close proximity?

    A little about my family: There are no lawyers in my family (or in extended family for that matter). My father hailed from Sonipat and my mother came to India in my Nani’s womb from Pakistan. My father was a businessmen and my mother assisted him in his business. He was and is my role model. He had no basic formal education and left school in class VI to pursue his dream of setting up a business. My mother was a national level table-tennis player and a B.Com graduate from University of Delhi.

    My elder sister, who is a gold medallist, is a Human Resources manager with a renowned company in New Delhi and my younger brother, who is also a gold medallist in B.Com (H) from University of Delhi is running his own business and takes care of dad’s business. I think I inherited my mother’s sports skills and reading habits and my father’s experimental, risk bearing and helping nature. I believed that a little confusion and nervousness is always good but fear is destructive, and therefore I aim at balancing my fears and my weaknesses with my confidence and strengths, as I move forward. I also leave achievements behind and look at them as a thing of the past and aspire to achieve a little more as days go by. So, in a nut-shell, law and basketball are my passion and I am a learner and observer at heart.

     

    Why did you decide to be a lawyer? How was your law school experience at ILS, Pune?

    As far as my memory goes, I sealed the decision of being a lawyer in Class Xth – even before I decided whether to take commerce or science. My decision was based on an aptitude test that was conducted in school moral science class. Thereafter I started adding biographies of famous lawyers to my reading rack alongside the already placed biographies of basketball players. I also read a lot of John Grisham. That marked the beginning. In class XII, I joined LST for preparation. I did not fill any other forms (B.Com, Eco (H) etc) but gave entrance tests for N-Schools. At one point in time, when I did not get through Symbiosis, I almost lost hope for making it to any other N-School, but then when I made it NALSAR, I regained my strength. I also made it to ILS on merit and on sports quota. Now, the decision there was simple, but I got swayed by the India Today ranking and picked ILS over NALSAR, as the ranking placed ILS at number 1 in 2005.

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    ILS for me was a place of opportunities. Located in the heart of the city and walking distance from Symbiosis, ASCL, Ferguson College, FTII and Gokhale Institute of Political Science and Economics, it offered a vibrant student crowd and a bundle of opportunities. My learning was not limited to the classrooms of ILS. I participated in moots that enlarged my frame of learning, pursued diplomas in subjects that were not taught as a part of the academic curriculum and interned with NGO’s/human rights organisations in Pune. During college, I successfully completed diplomas in International Arbitration, Cyber Laws, International Business Laws, Securities Laws and Medical Law and Criminology. I was one of the speakers in the team that represented University of Pune at University of Oxford in the quarter-final rounds of the Oxford IPR Moot Competition, 2009. My first publication was on ‘domestic violence’ in the college journal (in 2007), followed by a piece on ‘separation of powers’ in the Ambedkar Law School journal (2009). During college, I also participated in cultural events like poetry writing and recitation, signing and painting. And of course I continued to play Basketball at the Deccan Gymkhana, since our college did not have a functional basketball court. I made some great friends at ILS. Overall, I believe I was able to paint my canvas with so many colours because I was in a college that gave me so much time and space to explore and go looking for opportunities, if they refuse to come to you.

     

    When people say “Law school”, they look no further than the National Law Universities. As a graduate of ILS, Pune have you faced any such bias? What would be your advice to students in ILS?

    I think the trends are changing a bit. Especially because of so many law colleges mushrooming across the country. ILS has a legacy of being one of the oldest institutions imparting legal knowledge. What ILS lacks is professional training. Meeting my counterparts from N-Schools, always encouraged me to imbibe in me the skills required to think, talk and approach life like a professional. Bias does exit but not all of us have to face it. ILS has a reputation for producing some good litigators however has not earned the same reputation in the corporate world, thereby making it difficult for kids in ILS to crack competitive corporate jobs. I recall an incident during my first job where a senior of my team, while praising my work, introduced me to be from NLS. On my prompting, he corrected himself and toned up his praises even more (considering he was surprised!). I would advise students from ILS to do additional courses and good internships because only studying law at ILS and getting a degree is not going to be enough.

    My advice to students of ILS would be two-fold

    (a) focus on academics in order to score well. Do not consider classroom teaching the end all of academics, that’s just the starting point; and

    (b) Make the most of the time at hand. Involve yourself in activities/course or additional degree’s that interest you. ILS makes space and time for you to incorporate that in your schedule. Most importantly, do both with the sole objective of learning.

    Students can consider requesting administration to take notice of events, moots and competitions that interest them and be rest assured the college will do its part. Student may also invite luminaries in the legal fraternity for lectures and seminars. Basically, what a student in ILS needs is the ‘instinct to initiate’ and ‘go towards opportunities’.

     

    Please describe the internships that you did in college.

    For internships, I always chose New Delhi, because this is where home was and logistics were easy to manage. My first internship was in the District Courts of Delhi where I read and researched on matters of criminal law and property related disputes. Thereafter, I did my second internship in Delhi High Court where I worked on matters on the original as well as the appellate side on various subjects. In my third year I did internships with Senior Advocates of Supreme Court. I then did an internship with litigation teams of two law firms and my final internship was with the Law Commission of India where I wrote a thesis (which retired into a book) on Constitutional validity of Medical Termination in India. I planned my internships and explored possible avenues for a lawyer in order to better understand my calling. By the end of five years, I was sure of being a litigator (at the least) not sure of the subject area that interests me.

     

    You worked as a Legal Manager at ICICI Bank. How does a typical day at ICICI work out? What were your main tasks and what responsibility did you undertake?

    ICICI Bank was my first employer. I was placed through college. I was based out of the Delhi office (I asked for Delhi as my location during my interview). I worked in no specific vertical, but was primarily doing litigation for/against the Bank. Anything and everything was a part of my profile. On a day I would be doing ECB lending, security creations and on another I would be researching and preparing written submissions for matters pending in the consumer forum or the Supreme Court and on yet another day I would be doing retail banking advisory. Having such a profile made it interesting to work in ICICI. I worked there for a year and a half, before I decided to do a masters.

     

    How did your appointment take place at ICICI Bank? What kinds of questions were asked at your interview for ICICI bank?

    ICICI follows a three step procedure, shortlisting on the basis of CV’s, followed by a Group Discussion and finally a personal interview. The Group Discussion revolves around a hypothetical problem relating to law of contracts and consumer protection. The personal interview is primarily based on the resume and a few HR based questions.

     

    Please tell us about your decision to do an LL.M and how you went about choosing the program and university.

    I decided to pursue my masters from Oxford ever since I visited the University in 2009 for an IPR Moot Competition. On my return, I pursued it like a dream. The advantages of doing a BCL are:

    (a) it offers the students to choose a suitable combination of subjects, based on their preferences as opposed to a custom-made LLM course. So, even though I read only four subjects as part of the BCL but at the same time the rigorous workload and timelines gave me the advantage of specialising in four subjects at one time,

    (b) Oxford targets on strengthening reading, breaking down complex material and articulating the same in form of legal writings/answers/tutorials. They say, don’t study BCL, you read for BCL.

     

    What do you think clicked in your favour during the selection process for Oxford? What are the scholarships you had applied for?

    I can’t answer this question with certainty. It has to be a combination of my academic performance in ILS, my statement of purpose and the write-up. Also, the fact that I assured my willingness to attend the course and pay for it, in case I did not get scholarships from Oxford, could have boosted my application. However, I did say that I will not attend if I had no scholarships at all. Other than that, achievements mentioned on my CV (like basketball, moots, diplomas etc.), my statement of purpose and my write-up may have added a little value.

     

    How do you think a law student can build up his profile to get through to top-notch universities like Oxford?

    It’s important to have a strong academic score. A rank in the law school adds value to the application. Apart from that, a student should be able to demonstrate inclination for engaging in theoretical and policy aspects of law. It is also advisable for students to have publications on their side. I remember interacting with the Dean of the University and inter alia, discussing the approach adopted by the University in considering applications from Indian law students. He talked about the law college’s ranking also being a relevant factor, apart from the academic achievements of the student.

     

    What was your area of study during your masters at Oxford? How was the academic pressure like and did you find time to engage yourself in other activities?

    I read Principles of Financial Regulations, Corporate Laws, Medical Law and Ethics and Philosophical Foundations of Common Law. The courses were rigorous and the readings ranged from being easy to intense and complex. However, I made time to be a part of the Oxford University Girl Basketball team after being shortlisted at the trials conducted at the beginning of the course. I played 4 or 5 inter-university matches and also participated in the legendry ‘Varsity Tournament’ played between Oxford and Cambridge every year.

     

    Please tell us about the scholarships you applied to and the procedure for each.

    I applied for all possible scholarships I stumbled upon during my research. I started looking for scholarships before making my application. I followed this website -governmentofindiascholarship.com. I specifically applied for Rhodes, Common Wealth Scholarship, KC Mahindra Trust, Jain Trust, Ox-Cam among others. I was awarded the KC Mahindra Trust Scholarship and the Ox-Cam Scholarships. The application procedure is a little detailed as the students need to prepare independent SOP for each and demonstrate availability of the balance funds (in case where the scholarship does not cover for everything).

    The interview rounds for KC Mahindra and Ox-Cam is fairly simple and questions are primarily targeted at (a) ‘Why oxford?’ and (b) ‘What after masters?’

    Additionally, I would suggest students to ask their employers or seniors they have worked with for financial assistance as some firms, seniors or employers are willing to offer funds with or without a promise from the student to come back and work with the said employer or senior.

     

    Please describe your experience at Oxford. What were the classes and professors like?

    Oxford was a scintillating experience for me. Especially, reading philosophy at Oxford gave me a deeper understanding of law, legal principles and concepts. Oxford has seminars (classroom teaching) which requires students to read before walking in. For my corporate law class I joined a group that was made by students themselves to discuss seminar questions before the seminar and help prepare better for exams.

    At Oxford I was exposed to a system that takes its readings very seriously. As a Masters student, we were required to not just read hundreds of pages every week, but, to also reflect on them during our seminars. I enjoyed this practice very much and it has allowed me to hone my writing skills in the process. A typical reading list will have at least 8-10 important readings (combination of articles, case laws and policy paper series from different jurisdictions, but primarily UK and US). Professors, at best, assist as students deliberate and discuss a topic. One more thing which I found particularly interesting was the presence of an economics, finance and corporate law professor at the same time during seminars for one of my courses, namely, principles of financial regulation.

    The tutorial system is quite unique. There are 4 tutorials for each subject and are spread over three semesters followed by a three hours written exam at the end of the course. I found the tutorials challenging but refreshing as they helped me assess my performance and understanding of the subject alongside attending seminars. They also helped me hone my skills of articulating my thoughts and understanding of the subject.

     

    You switched to a pure research based career after coming from Oxford. How did this change take place? How did you get to associate yourself with Jindal Global Law School?

    Academics is very close to my heart and still is. For as long as I can remember, teaching and educating has always fascinated me. When at Oxford, I heard about Jindal Law School and its dean, Dr. (Mr.) C. Raj Kumar who happens to be an alumnus of Oxford. I was given an opportunity to work as a Research Associate and lecture two courses ‘Property Laws’ and ‘Corporate Laws’. Honestly, one may see it as a switch in careers, but for me, academics fits in very well for an aspiring lawyer, especially after a masters. I also felt a dire need to re-apply and re-read my subjects, from the Indian law perspective – after I finished my masters.

    Though I chose to be a litigator, I haven’t lost touch with teaching and academics (and hopefully never will). I have conducted seminars and lectured at various law schools in India, ever since I left Jindal. I am a visiting faculty with Symbiosis Law School, Noida and often visit ILS Law College for conducting week long courses, as and when time permits.

     

    You had worked with Jyoti Sagar Associates and you are now working with Trilegal. Why this switch?

    After two very fruitful and enriching years at Jindal Law School, I decide to do join regulatory litigation. I was with JSA for a year and have been with Trilegal for 5 months now and having been working on laws in the energy sector, especially the power sector. With not much precedent in the sector, the practice is demanding and engaging.

     

    How is being a research associate or a legal manager at bank different from working at a top – notch law firm? Does the work load increase, how have you managed this transformation?

    When I was in ICICI, I assisted in consumer dispute litigations for/against the bank on subjects involving ‘corporate laws’, ‘banking laws and regulations’. When at Oxford I read ‘corporate law’ and ‘financial regulations’. When at Jindal, I taught ‘corporate laws and financial regulations’. When at JSA, I put together the knowledge and experience acquired from ‘corporate laws’, ‘regulations’ and ‘litigation’; and worked hard in acquiring sector specific knowledge. Electricity/Power sector is a super-niche sector and I find it thrilling and challenging. My work at JSA was very extensive and intense. At Trilegal, I continue working on matters in the power sector with the same intensity and I enjoy it immensely.

     

    How has the journey been so far? What are your long term goals?

    For me my journey that has been the best part. The people I met, places I visited, life experiences I picked on the way, all add to me being who I am today. For today and tomorrow, I am a litigator, learner and an observer and I aspire to be perfect at what I do.

     

    Lastly, what would be your message to a law student who wants to excel in the legal profession?

    Let me quote Abraham Lincoln’s message “If you are resolutely determined to make a lawyer of yourself, the thing is more than half done already.” I echo.

    When in law school, plan a little about your future. Immerse yourself in travel, cultural exchange, sports, parties and meaningful conversations, as much as possible. Don’t let your degree define your career limits. Don’t forget to explore and experiment. Take risks sometime, it adds a bitter-sweet flavour to your becoming a lawyer. If you do, then accept your failures as much as your cherish your victories.

    And most importantly, keep your imagination alive.

  • Sahana Raghunathan, Associate, JSA, Chennai, on studying at ILS Pune, recruitment and work at a top law firm

    Sahana Raghunathan, Associate, JSA, Chennai, on studying at ILS Pune, recruitment and work at a top law firm

    Sahana Raghunathan is an Associate at JSA, Chennai. She graduated from ILS Law College, Pune with a BSL LL.B degree. She also pursued Diploma courses in Human Rights and Corporate Laws. After graduation, she joined Vichar Partners as an Associate. Vichar Partners was subsequently merged with JSA where she continued to work. In this interview she talks about:

    • Studying at ILS and Diploma Courses
    • Recruitments and internships at JSA, Chennai
    • A career in corporate law and maintaining work-life balance

     

    How would you introduce yourself? Could you please share a little bit of what motivated you to pursue law as a career?

    Let me start by thanking SuperLawyer for this amazing opportunity. Greetings from the city of Chennai! I am Sahana Raghunathan, Associate, JSA. A Proud 90’s kid and a Corporate Lawyer. Enthusiasm personified.

    Having always been a topper and driven by marks in school, engineering “ought” to have been the natural next step. It was something like a rebellious decision (read: against the typical belief of a “tambrahm” family) to take commerce in class 11. My father likes to believe it’s because he convinced me that law and economics is a good combination. I have been told that two of my great-grandfathers were part of the then judicial system. Let’s just say that this gene skipped many a generation before me! Jokes apart and however clichéd it may sound, it was going to be either law or journalism. One road was taken, the other not. I am now with the corporate team in JSA, Chennai and my main practice areas include private equity, mergers and acquisition, banking and finance and general corporate commercial.

     

    Tell us about your college life at ILS Law College, Pune. What was the reason behind pursuing various Diploma courses? Was it a professional requirement to enhance more in your career?

    Choosing to pursue law in any city, away from home, was a conscious decision and it had a lot to do with wanting to lead an independent life (not to be read as misusing independence et al).Being the first batch to give CLAT, I was placed in Rajiv Gandhi National University of Law Punjab. But I decided to go ahead with Indian Law Society (ILS) Law College, Pune, as it is a very well established institution and it proved to be the perfect choice. Attending early morning lectures seems to have prepped me for my early morning work hours now. But the main advantage of studying in ILS, apart from the excellent and very approachable faculty, is the fact that we had the rest of the day to ourselves to pursue our other interests, legal or otherwise (no pun intended). The Diploma in Human Rights (in my second year of law school) was to get a feel of that side of law I knew I would not make a career of. When in my third year, the Diploma in Corporate Laws gave me a direction to follow and I was sure of what I wanted to do once I graduated from law school.

     

    Please comment on the quality and structure of these courses. How much practical knowledge did you gain from it?

    We had the diploma classes as frequent as thrice a week depending on the schedule of the main course (i.e., BSL. LL.B). Excellent part time faculty, who were mostly working professionals, were engaged to take practical sessions and though these sessions were not as effective as internships, they were helpful nonetheless.

     

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    What were your areas of interest during your graduation? How did you go about developing expertise and knowledge in these areas?

    My internships during law school have been in various fields: IP, corporate litigation, general corporate commercial, banking and arbitration. Though I have always been inclined towards a career in corporate law, I wanted to venture into other areas as well and when better a time than as a student. I was really lucky to have interned with some of the best advocates such as Mr. Satish Parasaranand law firms/legal departments in Chennai such as R&P Associates, HSB Associates and Kotak Mahindra Bank.

    As an intern, the workload is less and the seniors there tend to pamper you as they know life after graduation. Talking to them, learning practical aspects of working from them and also utilising the libraries at such offices always prepared me for a better next year at law school. I knew what to look out for and how to grow professionally.

     

    Did you find that your law school education had prepared you sufficiently for the many tasks you were required to execute during your internships and later at your job?

    On a theoretical level, law school preps you to know the law. The internships prepare you for the practical aspect, as in how to implement the law and how to work with it. The first few months at work is when you actually get to realise how to work the two in tandem and be creative while balancing the two.

     

    Soon after graduation you joined Vichar Partners as an Associate. Did all the attorneys from Vichar Partners continue to work after the Merger with JSA? Did it affect your work in any way?

    Yes, that’s correct. It was announced that Vichar Partners was set to merge with JSA, one of the top national law firms, effective April 1, 2014. It was an exciting moment as a young associate to realise that I would get to work with attorneys pan India and the level of exposure I would get while doing so. And yes, all the attorneys and the staff of Vichar Partners were absorbed by JSA post-merger.

    We, at Vichar, always believed in providing outstanding legal solutions, in our chosen practice areas with a strong emphasis on ethics. So it was very easy to fall in line with the mission statement of JSA. The transition was easy as the working culture was similar in both the firms and the merger has been having a very positive impact on our working style.

     

    What is your take on working at a smaller law firm in early years of career rather than working at a very big law firm?

    I wanted to join a mid-sized firm with an effective presence in the market and Vichar fit the bill perfectly. And I am glad that they decided to welcome me. The reason behind choosing a growing firm like Vichar was so that the hype and pressures around a top firm could be avoided at the beginning stages of my career but at the same time, be exposed to that same level of work and clientele. My time at Vichar was a learning slate that prepared me and gave me the confidence, both professionally and personally, to meld easily into JSA.

     

    How was your first year after graduation? What were the biggest hurdles and challenges after joining work? How did you deal with them?

    I was a lucky fresher who had a very happening first year at work:

    Mid-sized firm into a top national law firm;

    Companies Act, 1956 to the Companies Act, 2013.

    It was a little confusing at first; we had learnt the old statute while in law school but we were expected to apply the new statute at work. That I would say was one of the top concerns in my first year. At JSA, we give a lot of importance to knowledge management. We regularly have internal team discussions across the JSA offices and internal seminars and presentations that help us stay on top of things and this also ensures networking intra JSA.

     

    What are the primary professional ethics you follow while at work? How do you deal with mistakes or errors?

    I am a team player. I believe that achieving the same result as that of what the client expects from you is the most satisfying aspect of work. And for that, team work with structured hierarchy is very essential. I value the time my seniors spend in mentoring me, my peers spend in discussions with me and my juniors spend in assisting me. Respecting my colleagues’ comments and the ability to value their input is what has helped me reach the stage I am at today.

    I think a lot of corporate lawyers would agree with me when I say that it is impossible to send out a perfect first draft. In the last one and half years of work, I have learnt that stress is only going to add to my mistakes. Getting the concepts clear, discussing it with your colleagues, reading up on it will minimalize the errors and prepare you for subsequent transactions. Also, do hope that a supreme power (read: mentoring partner/ senior associate) is around to save your dayJ

     

    There is a considerable attrition rate at the top law firms, what do you think contributes to this?

    I am sure that the reasons are mostly the same irrespective of the field of work. Some of the common grounds may be immense stress or pressure; internal politics; personal issues or plain boredom.

     

    What would be the one misconception you’d say you’d always held about real life legal work till the time you were an intern but changed once you started working as a lawyer?

    Timelines and deadlines. These two words give every corporate lawyer the same feeling as an e-mail wherein the client negotiates for a lower fee quote. As an intern, I had not been exposed to unimaginable timelines. I was always under the impression that lawyers were above all and our opinion was the law of the land. Apparently not. The clients seem to know, from their experience, as much if not more than a lawyer, the workings of law on a practical basis. And if it is a start-up, they expect the lawyers to learn the law along with them. The respect has been and will always be for the law.

     

    What are the other related fields where a corporate lawyer can try hand apart from joining law firms and corporate houses?

    This era seems to be sprouting new and innovative law related jobs. One can look at being hired at legal recruitment firms; go on secondments to companies where there is no in-house legal team; join legal database compilation teams; involve in translation of legislations from vernacular languages to English and vice versa etc. And not to forget, I think every lawyer should do his/her share of pro bono work.

     

    What is the procedure for internship and recruitment at Chennai office of JSA? Please tell our readers about the same?

    Applicants are encouraged to apply at least 6 months in advance of the month during which internship is sought. Applicants may also apply to internship@jsalaw.com. For further details, please visit http://internship.jsalaw.com/application-process.aspx.

     

    Life for lawfirmites can be very hectic at times. What is your take on work-life balance? How do you unwind?

    I think it is okay to push oneself to a certain limit. Sometimes people work best under pressure as it drives them till they are able to solve their way out. But it is equally important to know and respect one’s health and family and not push away/ neglect the same. I try to keep my weekends as free as possible (atleast Sundays for sure). I find it rejuvenating to open my laptop on a Monday morning if I have seen it last on a Friday night. But since that is a farfetched dream, let’s just go with making the most of weekends and some weeknights when the deliverables for the day are done early.

    For me, unwinding means time for DIY stuff (evidenced from my office desk and walls at home); quality time with family and friends; surfing social media sites and organising/ coordinating events (from family get-togethers to JSA annual attorney retreats).

     

    What is the current scenario of studying corporate law as a career option in India? What would be your parting message to law students who want to be successful in corporate law?

    To graduate in law within the next few years would be ideal for anyone looking to make an impact in this field. New law firms are emerging; established law firms are either expanding or splitting, and all this leads to the same: boom in the job market with inevitable and intense competition.

    My parting message:

    • Know the law and enjoy working with it;
    • Be disciplined in your work; this is no place to be casual or careless;
    • Treat your clients with respect and acknowledge the fact they know the law as much as you do;
    • And finally, let law be the winner.
  • Vatsal Gaur, Associate, Khaitan & Co., on receiving PPOs, induction and work at top law firms

    Vatsal Gaur, Associate, Khaitan & Co., on receiving PPOs, induction and work at top law firms

    Vatsal Gaur graduated from National Law University, Jodhpur in 2011. Having decided early on that he wanted to be a lawyer specializing in Mergers & Acquisitions and Private Equity, he interned with top-tier law firms such as Trilegal, AZB & Partners and J. Sagar Associates. He received two PPOs by the end of his third year. After graduation, he worked at J. Sagar Associates, Gurgaon for almost three years before joining Khaitan & Co., Mumbai in May, 2014. In this interview he talks about:

    • The importance of CGPA, moots, publications and debates for a legal career
    • Pursuing a career in corporate law
    • Working at top law firms like J. Sagar Associates and Khaitan & Co.

     

    Tell us a bit about your childhood. How did you decide to study law? Did you have lawyers in your family?

    I’ll answer the last question first. I’m a first generation lawyer. I do not have lawyers in the family. To be honest, law for me was just a choice I made out of high school – as with most kids out of school, we are all supposed to miraculously arrive at our future career paths, and mine happened to be law. I’m quite satisfied with my decision, though. When I connect the dots backwards, I don’t have many misgivings on my choice of career.

    I grew up in a modest background, and with both my parents being civil servants, it was always clear that I really had to make my own mark, and set my own goals. Law was one of those goals. I did not have a fall back option, and I am glad for it.

     

    Do you think having family members or mentors with a legal background help in this profession?

    Yes, most certainly. Having a legacy in any field is irreplaceable. I have read so many times how people quite casually disregard the benefit of a legacy. However, I wouldn’t like to mince words answering this question. In whatever field of law you are in, whether it is corporate or litigation, at the end of the day, contacts help. Equally competent individuals would most likely execute tasks with more or less equal efficiency. Business development and building a clientele is ultimately what sets you apart. And, it is here where having a legacy can be a major facilitator. Having said so, one must not feel disheartened with the lack of a legacy, and instead think of such a void as an opportunity to develop your own legacy. There are innumerable precedents of first generation lawyers who have done well for themselves, and who continue to do so.

     

    Tell us about your law school experience. Share some highlights from your college days that shaped you as a lawyer.

    I ranked in the bottom 15% of my batch in my first semester – maybe because I was experimenting with the ‘law school experience’, or maybe simply on account of youthful incredulity – it doesn’t matter. This had caused a major setback to me back then as I usually fared well in high school; however, in the same breath, I would also say that this was the most beneficial experience for me. I tasted what it felt like to not finish at the top, and what followed was a lot of toil and sweat and more toil and sweat to make amends. The race to the finish line, having started late, is what shaped me up.

    By third year, I had participated in some prestigious moot court competitions, broken ceilings that I thought existed (not literally!), published a fair number of articles (including in business dailies), gotten into public speaking, and of course, continued playing football.

    Not many know this (as I never made a big deal of it, and still would not like to), but I bagged two pre-placement offers before I completed my third year at law school from two of the leading national law firms (and a call back internship with the third, which too was very likely to have culminated into an offer). None of the holders of high CGPAs had an offer by third year.

    The only reason I am sharing this on this forum is to perhaps be a motivation for those who may feel they have been side-lined on account of not having grades. My word of advice to you is: Be a rebel, but not one without a cause. Instead, have a cause to back it.

    Therefore for me, the battles I fought in University, the reality checks I faced early on in my time there shaped me up tremendously. In fact, I feel living in a residential set up away from home (in environments which can get quite demanding as well as harshly competitive) greatly equipped me for life ahead.

     

    How did you fare in your academics at NLU, Jodhpur? Would you say a great CGPA is a necessity to kickstart a good career in the legal profession?

    Following from my response above, I eventually fared well in academics. However, due to the damage done to my GPA during first year, I didn’t finish in the top 10 percentile. At the same time, I finished high enough to be shortlisted for all campus recruitment opportunities. In the end, my CGPA never mattered.

    Would I say a ‘great’ CGPA is a necessity? – a big NO! A ‘good’ CGPA and a ‘balanced CV’ will help just as much, if not more. At least, this should hold true in case an individual is looking at being a transactional lawyer or a litigator.

    I feel the only place a ‘great’ CGPA helps is to secure a job at a UK magic circle firm or if you are keen on academics or, lastly, in securing scholarships/ funding for an LL.M programme. If you are interested in any of these, you should definitely have an eye out for your grades.

    At work, and in daily life, what matters is grit, confidence, hard work, more hard work, real time application of legal principles and the ability to be a problem solver. At many instances you will be faced with situations where you will need to back yourself consciously. Grades are forgotten once you start work just as high school grades are forgotten once you enter college.

     

    Conferences, debates and Moot Court Competitions – do you think participating in these extracurricular activities helps a student in the long run?

    Yes. I feel any form of self-expression is greatly rewarding. Having participated in a variety of conferences, moots and debates, I can dare say the experiences gained greatly helped me develop my legal skills ‘qualitatively’.

    Mooting taught me research and patience; parliamentary debating taught me how not to rely on rote learning, and instead learn the art of expanding on bullets; conferences helped me express myself in forums where I spoke in front of people much more experienced than me in the fields I chose to research.

     

    You have published a lot of papers in various prestigious journals. How should one go about writing papers and getting the same published? Can you give us a few tips to ace the art of paper writing?

    Writing for me started on account of being able to have a stronger CV, but as I went along, it just became a mode of self-expression for me, and I write just for the pleasure of such self-expression.

    I feel each one us have our own ways of self-expression, and I unfortunately do not profess to have ‘aced’ the art of paper writing, and I will, therefore, not be able to provide a one-size-fits-all tool-kit. However, what I could set out, are broad parameters that young authors should keep in mind when writing. Again, these too would vary on what forum one is addressing and your ultimate readers.

    Focus points are:

    • Have your aim straight. Know the point you want to make (similar to a moral to the story)
    • Clear expression
    • Lead your reader to your aim (i.e., to the moral of the story)
    • Do not overstress upon or overdo anything
    • Sophistication over sophistry; preciseness over verbosity

     

    Tell us how paper publishing and other co-curricular activities helped you in acquiring skills that are important for a successful legal career.

    I feel legal writing does play a positive influence in one’s legal career. Similarly, participation in other academic as well as non-academic co-curricular activities also has the effect of shaping your profile.

    At the end of the day, when you get out of law school, people will not recall what grades you have; what they will recall is your impact value. Solid mooting experience helps develop this facet. Similarly, legal writing greatly enables and facilitates drafting work.

     

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    What kind of internships did you do while you were a student? Any remarkable experiences during your internships that shaped your career choices later?

    I focused very early on, on pursuing corporate/ M&A internships. I was lucky to have secured some good internships to start with. I remember that I did not take a single vacation during law school and worked back to back to complete three internships each year. I feel my best internships were at AZB & Partners, J. Sagar Associates and Trilegal. I received a good amount of mentoring and challenging assignments. I was also given a great deal of responsibility, just what I needed as I was working my way up to a good CGPA after the initial hit.

    I feel all my internships had very many remarkable experiences, right from getting a ‘outstanding’ rating from Mr. Gopal Subramaniam during my internship at his office in my 2nd year of University to being able to work on PE/ VC term sheets and research on very contemporary corporate law issues during my internships at Trilegal and JSA.

    I feel I was lucky to have met some really good mentors who saw talent in me, and nurtured it. ‘That’ nurturing did for me, what law school could not – feed my thirst for knowledge and the practice of transactional law.

     

    After graduating from NLU, Jodhpur you had worked at J. Sagar Associates for almost 3 years and then joined Khaitan & Co in May of last year. Please tell us a little about your work profile at these firms and the responsibilities you have been entrusted with.

    Having set myself the goal of being a transactional lawyer, I joined the M&A/ PE team at JSA, Gurgaon. Given that I had started working in this area of corporate law pretty early on in my internships (as early as 2nd year of law school), I had a good hold on the core essentials. Also, given that I had received a PPO from JSA pretty early in law school, the gestation period for me was practically non-existent as I had done rigorous internships with the firm before joining it, where I worked more like an associate than an intern. This allowed me to get right into the thick of things very early on in my legal career. My first legal due diligence for a PE deal came to me in my 2nd week, and transaction documentation started by the end of the first month. I will always be grateful to the firm and my seniors for believing in me so early on and giving me the necessary impetus required in order to develop a quick and steep learning curve – one that I have greatly benefitted from.

    I made a shift to Khaitan & Co’s Mumbai office in May of 2014 and I have greatly enjoyed being part of this set-up. The firm is highly institutionalised and is run on a merit-based system where lineage and family is surmounted by meritocracy and integrity. Joining as a lateral, I have felt very welcomed by the establishment and my colleagues.

    My responsibilities at Khaitan & Co primarily involve advising private equity/ venture capital investors and private M&A players on their investments/ acquisitions, general regulatory advice around structuring of transactions, conducting and leading diligences, negotiating, vetting and preparing transaction documents, and finally, assisting in closing of transactions. We also advise some promoters and target companies during sell-side mandates where we need to change hats during negotiations. My responsibilities at JSA were broadly similar to those described above.

     

    Your main practice area covers Mergers & Acquisitions and Private Equity investments. What prompted you to choose these practice areas? Please share with our readers.

    I was always a bit of an outlier in University, insofar as I started on corporate/ M&A internship roles very early on while most of my batch mates were still being experimental (trying different kinds of internships). Therefore, by the end of 2nd year, I had pretty much decided that I wanted to be a transactional lawyer driving M&A and PE deals. Each of my internships from 2nd year until 5th year were ‘only’ with M&A teams of the various firms I interned with, and I made that choice at the time of applying to these firms. On account of this exposure (quite self-induced, in my case), M&A/ PE was the only natural choice for me.

    I don’t know if the above answer will help your readers, but I suppose what I could broadly state is that you should try and direct your internships. Not everyone is born to do corporate law. There are so many options in law firms – right from competition, tax, infrastructure, banking to intellectual property. Similarly, nowadays, the trend seems to be changing finally where a lot of law graduates from top law schools are opting for litigation over law firms.

    I will highly recommend law students to not follow the herd, and in fact, chose the branch of law that is of most interest. M&A/ PE interested me the most – it really was, and still is, that simple.

     

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    Corporate Law sometimes comes with a humongous workload. What made you gravitate towards this field? How do you manage the workload and your personal life?

    To be honest, I did not have much of a work-life balance in my first two years. I missed all important events – birthdays, anniversaries, the works, and all along I never seemed to mind. I really was a work horse (and do not regret it).

    But over time, I suppose one naturally realises how to prioritise things, and it is something that frankly everyone in the field is constantly trying to learn every day.

    To be honest here, in my view work-life balance is a major misnomer. And the reason I say this is simple. If you really think about it, 80% of our awake time is spent at work, so it is essential you enjoy your work. If you enjoy 80% of your awake time, you automatically enjoy 80% of your ‘life’ time. The balance 20% is what you really need to really think about, in my view, and make the most of!

    With so much information available online nowadays about how demanding different career lifestyles are, I am sure people are well familiarised with a lawyer’s work-life. And to this extent, all I would say is you just need to brace yourself for the long haul if corporate law is your chosen career path.

    I am not a very good example of someone who manages work and personal life too well, so unfortunately I will not be able to answer your last question. However, I would say that I do try and balance work with pleasure every now and then (just as most others also try and do), as it is vital to take a break and refresh yourself whenever you can.

     

    Many law students strongly believes that getting a job at one of the top 3 law firms is mostly about securing a high CGPA. Would you agree?

    After reading my responses above, I hope I can, to whatever extent possible, change this impression! Law firms recruit based on merit, and while a high CGPA is an easy way to assess merit, in practice, law firms do not see that in isolation. I feel having a good internship experience coupled with a well-rounded profile (which includes extra-curricular initiatives as described above) matters far more than just purely a high CGPA driven CV.

    Once you are in the grind (i.e., the workspace), it does not matter what your grades were. What matters is how well you perform, how well you execute deliverables, and how well you can display your skill set. To this end, a person with a well-rounded profile has far greater chances at excelling than someone who only has high grades to show on a CV – purely because the former kind has tested him or herself against far greater experiences and challenges, and is thus more ‘anti-fragile’ (to borrow from Nassim Nicholas Taleb).

    Notwithstanding any of what I have said, what matters most is how technically sound a to-be lawyer is – that is the single most important aspect that recruiters consider, and is irreplaceable as a skill set.

     

  • Ronak Thakkar, Associate, Jyoti Sagar Associates, on the first year at a top law firm

    Ronak Thakkar, Associate, Jyoti Sagar Associates, on the first year at a top law firm

    Ronak Thakkar is currently an Associate at J. Sagar Associates, Mumbai. He graduated from Government Law College, Mumbai, and simultaneously earned his Company Secretary degree. His internships include Tata Motors Limited, P&C Legal and J. Sagar Associates, Mumbai. He has also completed a Diploma Course in Cyber Law from Asian School of Cyber Law, followed by the Advanced Certificate Course in Foreign Trade, International Business/Trade, Marketing and Dispute Resolution from the Indian Merchants’ Chamber. In this interview he talks about:

    • Academics and co-curricular activities at GLC, Mumbai
    • Internship, recruitment and work at corporate law firms
    • Pursuing a C.S. degree along with LL.B studies

     

    Our readers consist of law aspirants, law students and young lawyers. How will you introduce yourself to them?

    Firstly, thank you for giving me this opportunity to share my story. This interview is going to be an experience in itself as I am usually the listener and the one who asks questions.

    I rocketed to Earth as Ronak Thakkar. I’m a corporate lawyer, 23 years old, currently working in Mumbai (Bombay, for those who prefer it that way). I am passionate about law, live life with an open, accepting mindset and am always up for a high five.

     

    Tell us a bit about your childhood and pre-college life as well as educational background. Do you have lawyers in your family?

    I was blessed with a very good childhood and was fortunate to have caring and supportive parents. I was a last bencher at St. Pius X High School, an all-boys school. As you’ve guessed it right, the energy and the adrenaline rush were really high.

    Honestly speaking, school has been one of the best phases I have lived through so far. I guess the feeling is the same for all of us. I have learnt a lot, made many friends and it has definitely been the foundation stone to the positive attitude with which I stand in front of you guys today. About my educational qualification, I am a law graduate from Government Law College, Mumbai.

    I am a first generation Superlawyer. I also don’t have a surname that is well-established in the fraternity.

     

    In India there is bit of resistance towards legal education even now. What motivated you to choose law as a career?

    I don’t personally feel that there is any resistance towards legal education now. I think students in India today are more than happy to take up law mainly because law offers you many opportunities to do your best in your chosen interest areas. The Government is doing a lot to promote legal education and make it more accessible. In GLC there is about 50% reservation for students who belong to eligible quotas like SC/ST, sports, cultural etc. and these opportunities are being utilised.  I don’t think there is any resistance.

    As far my motivation to take up law and pursue law as a career is concerned, it was simple. I could relate to it more than anything else and definitely relate to it more than I could relate to K4Fe(CN)6 + H2SO4 + H2O = K2SO4 + FeSO4 + (NH4)2SO4 + CO.

    According to me law helps you to find solutions in real life situations and is a very practical subject. I felt that by doing law I will be standing for a purpose/cause and will work towards achieving it. Therefore I took it up.

    Curiosity is the word. Law is interesting; I felt I wanted to know more. I was sure that I will be better as a lawyer than a dentist or an engineer. It wasn’t very difficult to take that decision then.

     

    How did you get through to GLC, Mumbai?

    I was a science student before I took up law. I was weak with numbers, never got my chemical equations right. I had realised that I had failed to make the right choice. I was about to waste a year because it was a bit late by the time I decided to do law and GLC was the only college I was able to apply to.

    While going through the admission process, I learnt that in order to get through GLC, your HSC percentage is taken into account and you are not required to give CLAT which was motivating considering that I had not given the CLAT.

    I am very happy that I got through and was a part of this excellent institution.

     

    Which subjects did you enjoy during your qualifying degree? What about co-curricular activities?

    I enjoyed Company law, Banking laws and Constitutional law. I contributed to the Magazine Committee of GLC in my first year.  I moved on to learn German and Japanese in my second year as learning new languages and networking are my hobbies.

    I felt that much of the law related to people and their dealings with each other, and it was crucial to understand thought processes and society to be able to work towards solving social problems. Therefore, I took up voluntary community service at the Indian Red Cross Society, Mumbai and was a part of some of their programs.

    I became a part of AIESEC, Mumbai in 2011, a branch of the world’s largest youth run organization, AIESEC International which gave me an opportunity to network and facilitate student exchanges with partner countries. It was a very positive experience as AIESEC always welcomed new ideas, promoted teamwork and leadership. As an AIESEC Organizing Committee member for “Balakalakaar 2011” I worked towards empowering under-privileged children and was instrumental in giving them a platform to showcase their talents.

    In my final year of law school, I was an active member of the GLC Students Council, the apex student body where I worked towards organizing events and promoting various initiatives for the welfare of college.

     

    Tell us about the places you have interned at. Did you plan your internships throughout law school?

    I did not plan my internships. As a part of my C.S. coursework, I had to do a compulsory internship for which I approached ICSI, my C.S. Institute to know how to go about the internships. Based on their guidance, I applied to companies and procured my first internship at Tata Motors Limited where I did a mix of corporate secretarial and legal work.

    As I discovered that I am more inclined towards corporate and transactional legal work, I asked some of my friends to suggest good law firms where I can learn more. After doing a bit of research online, I was able to contact the H.R. departments of these firms and submit my resume for their consideration. That’s how I procured my internships at P&C Legal, Mumbai and J. Sagar Associates, Mumbai.

     

    How relevant did you find your law school education with the kind of work you were required to do at law firms?

    I found it quite relevant. A law school curriculum is designed to cover everything that a law student ‘must’ know before he/she starts practice. Working on a transaction/matter will teach you more about the practical application of law to transactions/matters. But from an academic standpoint, I feel the education was very relevant to prepare one for the practicalities.

     

    You also managed to pursue the Company Secretary course. Tell us how did you manage it with college?

    In my first year, I saw a few students from my college applying for it. So I walked up to one of them and asked them about the course. I was told it is “core corporate law”. So I went up to www.icsi.edu to find out more and was convinced to pursue it.

    Initially it was more like following the rat race but as I discovered that I was more interested in corporate transactional work, I continued with the course and it was very helpful academically as it had important insights on subjects like mergers and acquisitions, securities law etc. which were not covered by my law school curriculum but were otherwise very relevant.

    As regards, how I managed to do it with college, I have a secret formula which is – “Be humble, hungry and the hardest worker in the room”.

     

    Soon after graduation, you joined J. Sagar Associates as an Associate. How did your appointment take place? How was your interview? Please give our readers some tips to nail a law firm interview.

    I applied to work with J. Sagar Associates after I completed my internship. My appointment was based on a review of my performance as an intern with the firm. My interview was a formal one and was focused on confirming my resume and ensuring that I knew what I was talking about from a “technical” standpoint.

    The interview was also about finding out if I am the right fit for the position or culture at J. Sagar Associates.

    I haven’t faced many interviews, but if I were to highlight some important points for applicants to keep in mind while applying for a job, they would be:

    Research about the law firm where you wish to apply.

    Make an effort to really understand what the firm’s expectations are of you and whether you will be in a position to meet them.

    Know your career narrative well. The career narrative must be easy to remember and retell. It should meaningfully link your past successes to your near and long-term development needs and suggest the kinds of assignments that would help to achieve those objectives It must hang together with the right combination of honesty, humility, and personal flavour.

     

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    How tough were the first six months at your workplace?

    They were not tough or difficult. J. Sagar Associates (JSA) has a very positive, supportive and friendly work environment. I have helpful team members and well-informed, accessible partners who guide me so that I can deliver my best. This is actually very encouraging and has motivated me to learn more and get better on the job.

     

    Tell us about the nature of work you’re entrusted with and what a typical day is like. What is the most challenging aspect of your job?

    I am entrusted mainly with transactional and advisory work. My practice areas are private equity, mergers & acquisitions, banking & finance. I also work on general corporate commercial matters and am involved in drafting, negotiating and reviewing a variety of commercial and financing contracts.

    In my view, the most challenging aspect of my job is time management. There are deadlines to matters and it is important to be responsive to clients. When you are on multiple active transactions it becomes a bit challenging to balance between long work hours and one’s personal life.

     

    Do your dual qualifications complement each other in terms of your work?

    Yes to an extent. The qualifications have helped me to understand concepts better and gain much needed academic exposure before facing a practical transaction/situation.

     

    There is a phenomenal obsession amongst law students with maintaining a very high CGPA. How important according to you is this in securing a job in a top tier law firm?

    My personal view is that a high CGPA is definitely an important reflection of your academic performance, but it is not the only parameter on which your capabilities to be a part of the top tier law firm are adjudged.

    If your CGPA dropped because you were involved in extracurricular activities due to which you weren’t able to devote sufficient time to your studies in a particular semester, that doesn’t mean you are not a performer. But it surely means that you are a multitasker!

     

    You did a Diploma course in Cyber Law from Asian School of Cyber Laws. Tell us about the course structure and the utility of pursuing such Diploma courses beside studies.

    The course gives you knowledge about the information technology laws of the country and how e-commerce is regulated in India. For more information on such courses please visit: asianlaws.org. The Asian School of Cyber Laws is doing a really good job. There are tutorials conducted to make you understand the subjects in detail, the study material is helpful and exams are open book.

    I personally feel that the IT law practice is still in its developing stages in India. And from what I foresee, we are being increasingly driven by technology in our personal and professional lives with each passing day. It is naturally important to know how the law relating to technology is and will be regulated.

     

    You have also pursued an Advanced Certificate course in Foreign Trade, International Business/Trade, Marketing and Dispute Resolution from Indian Merchants Chamber. What was this course all about? Do you think pursuing this kind of professional courses help?

    India holds an integral part and has an important position in the global economy today. Naturally, there are going to be many cross border transactions and opportunities coming to our doorstep. As a lawyer, one will be required to work/advise on these transactions.

    The Advanced Certificate course in Foreign/International Trade course gave an overview of export-import and commercial transactions, documentation and more importantly about the foreign trade policy and the Foreign Exchange Management Act. These are key regulatory areas which will be very important to take into account if you were working or advising on a cross border transaction.

    These subjects were not covered in sufficient detail in my law school curriculum and therefore I felt the need do this course.  You can know more about the courses offered at the Indian Merchants Chamber website.

     

    Where do you see yourself five years from now? Would you consider going for an LL.M. abroad?

    I don’t make five year plans. I have my fingers crossed and hope that I should be doing well five years down the line.

    Yes, I might consider doing an LL.M if I manage to get a scholarship.

     

    What would be your parting message to law students who want to get placed in a law firm?

    I believe that ‘effort motivates accomplishment’ and if you work towards something you want in the right manner, you will achieve it. There is a Superlawyer in each of us. Find what you love to do, and just give your best.

    Firms will be more than willing to welcome you if you are good. People at firms are sweet, trust me!

    I am reachable at LinkedIn and Facebook in case anyone needs to get in touch. I take this opportunity to wish law students all the very best and I will be the happiest to know about their success stories.

     

  • Mrudul Dadhich on pursing masters, applying to different universities and recruitment at a top law firm

    Mrudul Dadhich on pursing masters, applying to different universities and recruitment at a top law firm

    mrudul-dadhich-2Mrudul Dadhich is a graduate of the batch of 2014 of  RGNUL, Patiala. He is currently pursuing Masters in European and European Legal Studies from the Europa-Kolleg, University of Hamburg and was awarded the prestigious Dr. Angela Merkel Scholarship Award.

    We spoke to him, among other things, about:

    • Tips on pursuing masters
    • Process of application to foreign universities for masters
    • His recruitment at J. Sagar Associates
    • Scope of career opportunities after graduating from a Tier II/III law school

     

    How would you introduce yourself to our readers which are mostly young students of law and lawyers?

    Hello everyone, I am Mrudul Dadhich, pursuing Masters in European and European Legal Studies from the Europa-Kolleg, University of Hamburg. I was fortunate to have been awarded the prestigious Dr. Angela Merkel Scholarship Award for pursuing my Masters. I have completed my B.A. LL.B. (Hons.) from Rajiv Gandhi National University of Law, Patiala.

     

    Please tell us a little about yourself, your hobbies, passions, interests and ultimate goal in life.

    I am young lawyer with a lot of aspirations to find my feet in the legal fraternity. My hobbies include watching sports (especially cricket, football and tennis). I am passionate about cricket in particular and have a special affinity for numbers (which partly explains my love for statistics in sports). As for the ultimate goal, I tend to take things one at a time and prefer to set short term goals, achieve them and then set another set of goals. So it will be difficult to tell you an ‘ultimate’ goal in life at this point.

     

    How did you decide to study law? Did you have lawyers in your family? Why law and not engineering or medical studies?

    I am a first generation lawyer in my family. During my school days, I was totally inclined towards Engineering and had never thought of taking up law. I didn’t know what I was getting into when I came here and in my first 4 or 5 months I was filled with awe. And over the years I have realized that it was the best decision I ever took. All professions have lot to offer, however, personally for me law has offered more dynamism and it has opened up a lot of opportunities and avenues.

     

    You have not only interned at some of the best law firms in India but also secured a job at JSA, Advocates and Solicitors. How did you go about achieving this?

    When I was in the 3rd year of my Law School, I realized my inclination towards corporate and business laws and luckily, I got the opportunity in my 3rd year itself to intern with a top-tier firm. Then with the feedback from seniors I soon realized that J. Sagar Associates is a dream place to work at. When I first got the internship I was ecstatic and frankly, was in awe with the work culture and environment at JSA. That internship was a great experience and after that I kept on repeating internships with the firm. And things took their own course afterwards.

     

    Please tell us the recruitment process at JSA?

    The recruitment process at JSA is quite transparent and well structured. In my case, we had a campus recruitment activity wherein 6 candidates were shortlisted for the final interview. Based on the interview, the final selection was made.

     

    We note that you have applied for top notch universities for masters. While making applications, what was your strategy – choose a university first and then a course or vice-versa?

    I just applied for 2 programmes. I applied for the BCL course at the University of Oxford and the other one was for the DAAD Scholarship (the Angela Merkel Scholarship). My approach was to first select the course and then the University.

     

    There is also a great amount of debate when it comes to allocating your time and energy between research papers and moots as a law student. What is your opinion regarding this?

    There is no straight jacket formula for defining which requires greater allocation of time and energy. It works differently for every individual. In my case, I participated in Moots only till my 3rd year. However, I believe that a well balanced CV is more important than excellence in any one field alone. It is very difficult to choose one over the other and one must have fair share of both. Personally, I feel once you have done both then you may decide to pursue the one which interests you more. I had always favoured writing research papers over mooting.

     

    Being a topper, one may safely assume that you chose to devote a substantial amount of your time to academics. However, a lot of people claim that the role of academics (and more specifically, the “CGPA”) is limited and often over-stated and hyped. What’s your take?

    I think academics do play a significant role. However, having said that, it also depends on what your future goal is. I think that, for securing a place in a prestigious institution for higher education, role of a sound academic record is highlighted. I reiterate that it is important to strike a balance between academics and the extra-curricular activities. I also believe that internships are also very important and are a great platform to gain valuable, practical experience. Finally, to answer your question, I would say that academics are not the only thing but it never hurts to have sound academic record. It always helps!!

     

    There’s a lot of hue and cry about how the lower-ranked colleges are discriminated against when it comes to opportunities being offered despite at times being equally meritorious as the students from the higher-ranked ones. Do you find any substance in this argument?

    I would not say there is any discrimination in the legal fraternity based on the colleges. Generally the recently established colleges (I prefer to use this phrase rather than ‘lower ranked colleges’ as in absence of a centralised transparent ranking system, it is unfair to call any college higher ranked or vice-versa) have a smaller alumni network which plays a very important role in getting more opportunities. But I don’t think there is any discrimination.

     

    Did being a student of a Tier II Law School act as a roadblock during your law school days?

    Again I have not come across the categorization of law schools in different Tiers. In my case, I think studying in RGNUL was a boon and since it (RGNUL) was in the nascent stages when I started law school, I got a lot more opportunities to explore and to learn.

     

    If you could list out 3 activities which on a scale of priority, should be at the top in any law student’s school-life (given that he wants to secure the same set of achievements as you), what would those be?

    I reiterate that maintaining a balance is the most important thing, being perseverant and keeping yourself motivated is the Mantra that worked for me. As for the priority list, I would place Academics (good grades really help you for being accepted for Masters), Internships (this not only gives a practical insight about the different challenges one may face after law school) and Research Papers.

     

    If you could re-do your 5 years in Law school, is there something you would do differently?

    No, I am happy with the way things have turned out. The greatest fun is in unpredictability and to respond to the situations as and how they come, it will be too boring if everything goes just as we plan them!!!

     

    Lastly, what would be your message for the readers who want to pursue masters?

    First of all decide if you really want to pursue Masters. Once you are clear about that, select the discipline in which you want to pursue it (based on your area of interest and the opportunities which it may present in future). Look for appropriate scholarships. There are many scholarships so research on that and most importantly, start with your applications well in advance. I wish all the readers the very best in their future endeavours.

  • Arjun Natarajan, Advocate, JSA, on independent practice, being a first generation lawyer, and commercial law

    Arjun Natarajan, Advocate, JSA, on independent practice, being a first generation lawyer, and commercial law

    Arjun Natarajan graduated from V. M. Salgaocar College of Law, Panaji, in 2009. During his time as an undergraduate, he has interned at the Chambers of Advocate S. Sheroan, Human Rights Law Network, New Delhi, O.P.Khaitan & C0., Christian Medical College, Vellore (C.M.C., Vellore) – Legal Department, Chambers of Sr. Advocate Mr. K.K. Venugopal, New Delhi, and Karanjawala & Co., New Delhi. 

    After graduation he moved into litigation practice at Singh & Singh. Later, he started his independent practice focusing on cable and broadcasting disputes at the Hon’ble TDSAT. He recently joined JSA in their Regulatory and Policy group with focus on Communications i.e., Telecom & Broadcasting.

    In this interview he talks to us about:

    • Taking up litigation early after graduation
    • Setting up independent practice with the Hon’ble TDSAT
    • Joining JSA’s Communications practice

     

    Tell us a bit about your childhood and life before college.

    I spent my childhood in Calcutta and in Pilani. After passing the tenth standard in 2002, I did what everyone used to do in Pilani back then i.e., go for physics, chemistry, mathematics, biology and a sixth subject called physical education (English being compulsory).

    Throughout school I was clueless as to what I should pursue. Yes, I wanted to become a traveler but back then I suffered from motion sickness and I gave up that career plan too! Many people say such things about themselves perhaps out of humility but I am being honest. That answers the first part of the question. Now coming to the second part of the question; I have an aunt who is the principal of a law college in Mumbai. I must add that I feel happy about the fact that I am from a family of teachers.

     

    What motivated you to choose law as a career?

    I do not think that there is a lot of resistance towards legal education here. Let me give you an example: when I joined Law College in 2004, my decision was looked down upon by many people from varying backgrounds.

    In 2012, when my sister joined law college, the same people were appreciative of her as well as her decision. Either fortunately the times seem to be changing or unfortunately legal education suffers a reputation attack when urchins like me go for it! I joined Law College. (I won’t say ‘I chose law as a career’ after finishing the twelfth standard because I failed in mathematics. Thankfully, I had a subject called physical education which was accounted in place of mathematics).

    Within less than a week of joining V.M. Salgaocar College of Law, it struck me that I have been mighty lucky despite the debacle in the twelfth standard. All my schoolmates who had suffered the same fate as that of mine in the twelfth standard were unhappily stuck in school struggling with subjects like mathematics.

    I made up my mind to be fair to my luck and try to not let it down. There was no motivation to choose law as a career. Even now I try to pay gratitude to that one stroke of luck and in that process many strokes of luck happened to me in the form of very good mentors, moot courts, internships, jobs, briefs and a lot more.

     

    What are your thoughts on activities like mooting and article writing for journals?

    Your question demonstrates an unfortunate trend i.e., mooting and writing articles are flourishing on the cadavers of skill building exercises like client counselling, negotiation, MUN, et cetera. My thoughts are that such activities are massive contributors in shaping a law student. Such activities (when approached with the right frame of mind) develop an appetite for work in law students. Once an appetite for work is developed, a law student can learn any subject and master any skill.

    One more thought that I would like share is that students who are into mooting are often seen as great orators. Oratory is just the icing on the cake and I believe that it comes naturally when a person is prepared (consciously or sub-consciously but nevertheless “really prepared” and not merely “notionally prepared”.)

    I firmly believe that such exercises enable a law student to think and do things which are far beyond what even the most revolutionary of all curricula would normally permit him to think and do.

    Let us take the example of mooting. The soul of a moot court problem is the ‘fact-sheet’. When this exercise is done repeatedly over a period of time; then it prepares a law student to meticulously work on files which are far more voluminous. A law student should approach moot courts keeping in mind that it is a rigorous exercise. Such an approach would give him a world of opportunities in terms of learning. It should not be seen as some talk show where he can speak.

     

    Tell us about your internships.

    I received immense institutional support for internships. Back then, going outside Goa for an internship was not a very common thing and interning in Delhi was seen as something as strange as touring Jaisalmer in June or touring Spiti in December!

    Slowly more students from my college (especially students without lawyers in their families) started coming to Delhi for internships. The college encouraged students to go beyond Goa and Mumbai for internships. I did some of my internships when the classes were proceeding in full swing. My college excused attendance lapses on my part by prescribing a host of assignments that I had to do with the semester exams and at times the practical papers and semester exams round the corner! Nevertheless, it helped me to hone my multitasking skills! (I tried to write with both my hands, but my mind gave up as much as my left hand showed signs of coping up!)

    After completing my first year as well as my second year, I interned with Advocate Shalini Sheoran at Jaipur. During both the internships I got to work on several civil and criminal matters on the original side in addition to perusing documents and preparing legal notices. During the internship it struck me that moot courts have enabled me to read documents (correspondences, legal notices, pleadings, affidavits, cross-examination of witnesses et cetera) in a particular fashion.

    I realized that I stumble upon some new detail each time I read a document and I took it upon myself to reduce the number of times that I would have to read a document in order to not come across any new details. That exercise continues to this day. The documents have become more voluminous and their content has become more complex but nevertheless I enjoy reading them.

    After completing my third year, I interned with HRLN in Delhi where I got to work on several bail matters for juveniles in conflict with law as well as on some service matters. During this internship I realized that litigation is physically demanding too because it requires a person to keep himself sharp between his ears even when he is physically drained out.

    One of the ways to cope up with such situations is to love what you do and to be at peace with yourself.  It continues to shape up my career and hence it was a remarkable internship experience.

    While I was in my fourth year, I interned with O.P. Khaitan & Co. During the course of the said internship I got to do a fair amount of commercial law related work. I was always given to understand that working with a law firm and litigating are two different things because “law firms do not do litigation.”

    During the course of this internship I realized that law firms definitely do litigation insofar as drafting pleadings and briefing counsels who are engaged to argue. I also realized that what law firms generally do not do is arguing cases at the stage of grant/resistance to grant/vacation/resistance to vacation of interim relief/s, final hearing and on such other occasions when it is likely that a significant order would be passed by the Bench.

    I also realized that law firms generally do not argue cases at stages illustrated above because of  many factors like the stakes involved in the dispute, the client’s choice that the Bench should be assisted by a Senior Advocate and the like. I realized that law firms might not be arguing cases but they inevitably play a stellar role in analyzing facts and law and in strategizing the cases keeping in mind the best interests of the client.

    This internship enabled me to realize that I can very well litigate being a part of a law firm.

    After my fourth year I worked with the legal department of Christian Medical College, Vellore which is a multispecialty hospital. This internship enabled me to observe as to how the legal department of a large organization functions.

    During my previous internship I had seen officials from legal departments of client entities coming to consult lawyers at the firm. During this internship, I was a part of the legal department of a client entity which would go and consult lawyers. The previous internship and this internship enabled me to closely observe numerous perspectives and approaches.

    During my fifth year, I interned with Mr. K.K. Venugopal, Senior Advocate. During the course of this internship, I witnessed his approach to fine aspects of law. I also witnessed briefing counsels from the best of firms briefing him. This internship gave me numerous opportunities to attend proceedings in Hon’ble Supreme Court and to observe Senior Advocates advance submissions on various aspects of law. I developed the skill to take notes on submissions being made and that skill comes handy to this day.

    My last internship was with Karanjawala & Co. This internship also convinced me that law firms do litigate and it is utterly wrong to say that “law firms do not do litigation”. During the course of this internship I worked on some commercial law matters.

     

    How well do you think your education at law college prepared you for real world practice of law?

    Immensely in terms of temperament and skills. In order to answer the second part, I would have to go through the curricula of each law college! But yes, a general observation that I would like to make is that interpretation of statutes needs to be taught before any statute is taught.

     

    Do you think being from a non-NLU impeded your career in any way?

    NLU students are considered to be better than the rest by some. As a former MLU student (Mofussil Law University student) I would like to add the word “only” after the word “some”.

    Some NLU students too have told me something very interesting i.e., NLU students “being considered better than the rest” is like a presumption that is in favour of constitutionality of a statute. Once, the presumption is rebutted; an NLU student is open to be struck down just like any MLU student.

    Being from a non-NLU did not impede my career in any way. I personally do not like fully residential institutions packed into a campus. I would have felt so suffocated that I would have never felt like making use of any of the best of facilities and infrastructure offered by NLUs.

     

    How important are grades for securing a job?

    I have been told by some law students that only if they have a particular CGPA, they can sit for interviews. If it is true, then maintaining a very high CGPA is very important to secure a job (if securing a job which requires a very high CGPA is a top priority).

    One can question everything and die a martyr’s death. But it is better to accept some things which won’t really harm you (maintaining a very high CGPA does not harm you, it would require you to study more but that does not harm you either) and in return you might end up fulfilling your top priority!

     

    What factors contributed to your decision to take up litigation as a career choice?

    When I joined Law College, I made up my mind to do an LL.M. after graduating and thereafter to become a teacher. Towards the end of the first semester; I realized that most litigating lawyers teach much better than some teachers.

    I asked myself as to whether “I want to become a teacher or do I want to teach?” Bang came into my head like a bullet the difference between “becoming” and “doing”. It is better to aspire to “do something” than to aspire to “become something”. For what is it worth if someone becomes something without doing? By doing, he may or may not become, but then after all he is doing!

    The initial motivation to take up litigation as a career choice was to be in a position to teach. Once I took up litigation as a career choice, I lost sight of the motivation to take it up i.e., to teach. However, after getting into private practice in 2012; I started teaching at Indian Institute of Foreign Trade.

     

    You began your career in litigation with TDSAT. What was the rationale behind this choice?

    I began my career in litigation with Hon’ble TDSAT. I began with original side civil litigation. As long as original side civil litigation is the starting point of a career in law (not just in litigation); I believe that it is good.

    By the time I entered the final year; it was very clear in my mind that I want to begin my professional practice with original side civil litigation. At Singh & Singh I got the opportunity to work on at least 5 original side cases daily. Normally there would be at least two matters in which issues would be framed, at least one matter at the stage of evidence, at least one fresh matter in which usually interim relief/s would have to be pressed for/resisted and at least one matter which would be for final hearing. Besides that there would be numerous pleadings to be drafted before and/or after court.

    I do not know the rationale behind the choice to start litigation with TDSAT but it worked very well for me. My basic aspiration to start with original side civil litigation was fulfilled beyond my expectations.

     

    Do you feel that young lawyers should begin their career with regulatory litigation rather than starting at a district court or the High Court?

    Usually district courts and High Courts (if they have original jurisdiction) are suggested in order to ensure that young lawyers begin their career with original side litigation. Regulatory litigation in some tribunals does offer good exposure to original side civil litigation.

    As long as a fresher focuses on original side civil litigation and gets to work for more than 12 hours a day; day after day and week after week (weekends included) – any professional decision that he would make after a year or a year and a half would be in his best interest.

     

    What do you have to say about the general perception that work at law firms is the first choice of most law students and litigation is not high on their list of career choices?

    Any and every law graduate is more than 18 years of age. Law permits him to vote and to decide the nation’s destiny! Of course they are old enough to have perceptions based on various factors. What can I say about perceptions of others which are a product of their likes, dislikes, awareness, ignorance, competencies and compulsions.

     

    What were the biggest challenges and opportunities you encountered during your time at Singh & Singh?

    I am fortunate to have commenced professional litigation at Singh & Singh under the guidance of Prathiba Ma’am. Within hours of my enrolment (back then there was no bar exam), I started entering appearances before the Hon’ble TDSAT.

    I had ample client contact opportunities, numerous opportunities to draft original side pleadings, conduct cross-examinations and advance arguments. I got to represent a broadcaster, a multi system operator, a DTH operator and a telecom service provider.

    I also worked on some appeals in the Hon’ble TDSAT. The challenges, opportunities and most importantly the guidance has tremendously helped me to strive hard and to do my best.

     

    How was your experience at Fox Mandal?

    (Arjun spearheaded Fox Mandal’s broadcasting litigation practice for a year or so.)

    I had a phenomenal experience at Fox Mandal. I joined Fox Mandal when I was a year and a half old into the profession. At that stage in my career, I had the opportunity to handle every aspect of broadcasting disputes on behalf of a leading content aggregator before the Hon’ble TDSAT. I had the good fortune of resisting interim reliefs being sought for against the said content aggregator on a daily basis as well as advancing arguments at the stage of final hearing in several matters. Additionally, I had numerous opportunities to brief counsels for the purpose of cross-examination of witnesses. Such exercises enabled me to observe and learn the skill of cross-examination. My stint at Fox Mandal enabled me to carve a niche for myself as a regular practitioner before Hon’ble TDSAT.

    Coming to the second part of your question, liberty is something that is earned after finishing your work on a given day. Liberty is not something that is to be taken. Finishing your work on a given day can either be in an independent practice or in an institutional practice. The difference would be to the extent that in an institutional practice if you do not finish your work on a given day, then you disappoint your colleagues/seniors and then your clients whereas in an independent practice you straight away disappoint your client.

     

    How does it feel to have a landmark judgment to your credit?

    (Recently the Hon’ble TDSAT had passed a landmark judgment granting TV signals to a DAS licensee for the first time, and Arjun was the counsel for the DAS licensee.)

    The judgment was passed in a batch of 6 petitions filed by the DAS licensee against 6 different broadcasters. All the petitions involved very interesting questions of law as regards interpretation of an MIB Notification and the DAS license. These cases were a lot more complex than some other cases that I had worked on as a private practitioner and therefore they were extremely interesting.

    During my private practice, I was advising the DAS licensee. My association with the DAS licensee goes back to November 2012 when it had to address correspondences to broadcasters as well as respond to their correspondences. When I started with the correspondences, I had to obviously interpret DAS Regulations. However, other than the Regulations, the Explanatory Memorandum, allied statutes and Notifications, there were neither any commentaries nor any judgments on DAS Regulations that I could consult. The process of reading all the aforesaid instruments in a way that nothing becomes otiose, nothing begets absurdity and at the same time the interests of the DAS licensee are safeguarded in the best possible manner was an extremely challenging exercise.

    The petitions were filed in February 2013. The matters were finally argued in February 2014 after cross-examination of 4 witnesses from 4 broadcasters and the judgments were pronounced in April 2014. For final arguments I had briefed Advocate Mr. Jayant Mehta. His insights as to the manner in which the cases were strategized and the trials were conducted were a major source of encouragement for me.

    It can change your clientele and your identification with such a clientele very drastically. Often it stereotypes a lawyer with that one category of cases due to a large number of clients of that one category.
    After the petitions were filed for this DAS licensee in February 2013; there were a large number of DAS licensees who started consulting me as regards addressing correspondences and as regards handling day to day legal and regulatory issues.

     

    You have recently joined the Communication Law & Regulatory Practice at JSA after years of independent practice. How does this change the nature of your work or a typical work day?

    My response to the first part of the question is that a drastic change in the nature of my work happened immediately upon joining JSA. Basically, at JSA I am working on issues which are far more complex than the issues which I usually worked on as a private practitioner.

    Firstly, from cable and broadcasting law (which was my prime area of focus as a private practitioner), I have moved on to telecommunication law – an area which interested me ever since I joined the profession in 2009.

    Secondly, I am getting opportunities to work on administrative law – an area which interested me ever since I joined Law College in 2004.

    Thirdly, my exposure to complex commercial litigation has increased by many times as compared to my exposure to the said area as a private practitioner.

    A typical work day is still the same. I work as much as I used to work before.

    As regards the second part of the question, I would like to say that just because a person executes a successful sprint; it does not mean that he cannot go back to prepare and participate in a cross-country race; especially when he gets an opportunity to be trained by the best of coaches.

     

    Many law firm associates say that climbing the corporate ladder from inside a law firm is far more difficult than having your own practice and excelling. What would be your take on this?

    In my limited experience, I have seen that some people excel wherever they are.

    Firstly, such people will never say anything of that sort. Secondly, such people have three common traits.

    • They stay true to their spirit,
    • they continuously and consistently keep working very hard and
    • they do not know that there is something called an “excuse”.

    If either “climbing the corporate ladder inside a law firm” or “having one’s own practice and excelling” is a matter of priority for a person; then difficulties (real or perceived) or their degrees are trivial. The difficulty level of a road cannot be a deterrent for a man who really wants to travel on it.

     

    What skills would you say is a sine qua non for an intern who wants to excel at work?

    1. Common sense and
    2. An appetite for work.
    3. An understanding that 1 and 2 are ways and means to learn various skills.

     

     

    Disclaimer: All views are personal and do not in any way reflect the opinions/beliefs/views of the organisation/s the interviewee is associated with.