Super Lawyer

Tag: Law Firms

  • Mr Sourabh Gogna, Vice President, Professional Services Practice, at Smart Cube, and a Masters in Business Law from NLSIU, specializing in Growth Strategies and Consulting Support for Law Firms, on alternate career choices post Law

    Mr Sourabh Gogna, Vice President, Professional Services Practice, at Smart Cube, and a Masters in Business Law from NLSIU, specializing in Growth Strategies and Consulting Support for Law Firms, on alternate career choices post Law

    This interview has been published by Sonali Parashar, Ojuswi Sahay the SuperLawyer Team

    You have taken a completely uncharted path for somebody who has studied law. What brought you to your current role?

    Let me start by giving a background of my current profile. I work with The Smart Cube, a UK-based global research and analytics firm, catering to large professional services firms and Fortune 500 companies providing support for strategy formulation, business development, marketing and innovation. I have been with the firm since 2009. I hold an LL.B from Delhi University and Masters in Business Laws from NLU, Bengaluru. Prior to my legal studies, I studied business management with a specialisation in finance. Back in 2013, when I completed my legal studies, I had an opportunity to transition to a career in law or continue with my research and consulting profile at the Smart Cube. I realised that my passion lies in the business side of the legal industry and decided to grow our consulting business with law firms and professional services clients at the Smart Cube. Over the years, we have grown this practice to a team of 80+ people and my current mandate is to take our services to more US-based law firms.

    Tell us about your role as a strategist for global law firms?

    Every law firm is chasing top line and bottom line expansion and ways to introduce firm-wide innovation initiatives. My role is to support the law firms in defining strategic agendas and providing intelligence to execute projects and initiatives that will lead to these results. We play the role of a guide in supporting the offices of the CEOs, CFOs, COOs, CMOs, CBDOs, CIOs and Chief Innovation officers in pursuing their specific agendas. Typical areas of support are market opportunity assessment, geographic expansion, practice development, competitive intelligence, client intelligence, prospecting, marketing intelligence, innovation, indirect cost optimization, and data analytics.

    How do you support the practice development initiatives of professional services clients?

    We define practice development as the process of growing the business value for a particular practice area of a law firm or the entire firm itself. It need not result in revenue acceleration only but includes initiatives around innovation, marketing, and cost optimization. In terms of revenue acceleration, we support firms in market expansion through geographic or service expansion via lateral hiring, bolt-on acquisitions or by opening new offices in high potential locations. In terms of innovation, we support the innovation/special projects, marketing, business development, and strategy teams, in introducing innovative ways of conducting tactical work. For instance, we institutionalise competitive intelligence and key account management programs at scale leveraging our technology and analytics solutions, on a turn-key basis. Lastly, we support large professional services firms in indirect cost optimization. It is a small but growing interest area for large firms looking to bolster their bottom lines. We have a ton of experience in this space owing to our historic roots in procurement research and analytics. 

    You have supported law firms in their quest for regional and international law expansion. How does that work? Please share some insights on the thinking process of large firms.

    Law firms like any other business seek expansion. Mostly this comes in the form of geographic expansion, practice or service line expansion, new partnerships, new offices, lateral hiring, and M&As. We support law firms in each of these initiatives through our research expertise. To cite an example here, in 2018, we supported a leading US-based law firm in evaluating expansion opportunities in Canada, South Korea, and China. We provided an advisory deck to the firm’s strategy head covering intelligence on regulatory constraints, opportunity size, past success stories, growing practice areas, ongoing charge rates, competitive intensity, synergies with the firm’s US business, etc. Similarly, we supported a regional US-based law firm in exploring opportunities in different counties in California.

    Firms are looking to back their decisions with insights and data. Senior stakeholders lookout for making a compelling case for the growth initiatives and building consensus around it. They need a third-party unbiased independent review of these opportunities. We fill this need for law firms, other professional services firms, and corporate clients. 

    How do you help law firms with their profitability-related initiatives? What are the levers for law firms to augment profitability?

    To augment profitability, there are two main levers available to the firms, reducing cost or becoming more efficient. In terms of cost reduction, law firms typically find their hands tied up when it comes to salaries and bonuses as they try their best to retain the best industry talent. We saw this in 2020 and 2021 with unprecedented growth in associate and lateral salaries and bonuses. The next biggest cost head which is largely unexplored is indirect costs. We specialise in supporting law firms in reducing these costs around real estate, sales and marketing, professional and corporate services, IT & telecom, travel, facilities management, etc. 

    In nutshell, our process starts with understanding the spend categories and demand profile, supplier market dynamics, and formulating the sourcing strategy for each category. Then, we move to supplier identification, evaluation, and shortlisting, leading up to contract negotiations. We also monitor supplier performance and risks overtime to ensure that the operations run smoothly after the suggested changes. There is a whole science around spend analytics and procurement cost optimization which our researchers and data analytics experts deliver to our clients through our AI-HI approach, combining artificial intelligence and human intelligence. 

    In terms of efficiency-related support, we help in institutionalising best practices in business research and data analytics within the organisation with an aim of introducing automation, wherever possible. We also run shared services support centres for large firms in a few cases.

    Large professional services firms undertake huge exercises in competitive intelligence. Your team supports such programs. How do you do it?

    Collecting competitive intelligence is one thing but presenting and making it available to everyone in the organisation is another. Then there is the challenge of delivering timely insights which are actionable. 

    We attempt to offer actionable insights delivered to the entire organisation or relevant stakeholders by leveraging technology tools such as online portals, apps, RSS feeds, emailers, APIs to sync with your internal intelligence portals, etc. 

    If you come to think of it, it is competitive intelligence for your firm as it relates to the industries, practice areas, competitors, and clients that you want to track. It is a highly customizable deliverable that helps our clients in responding appropriately and in time to counter competitor moves. 

    We rely on information collated from trusted sources, databases, internal industry experts, and external expert interviews to deliver these insights. 

    Cross-selling is one of the most potent ways of increasing revenue growth. How do you support firms with this?

    Cross-selling is perhaps the lowest hanging fruit when it comes to revenue growth but often it goes unreaped. In our experience, there can be two reasons for this – one is cultural and the second is a lack of systems. 

    We can’t really influence the culture at the firm but we do play a role in streamlining processes and systems. Let’s say you have a CRM but there is no process to punch relevant client information and adherence to CRM updation is low. In this case, all your past efforts and relationships with the clients are not leading to future growth. We help define these processes, take the responsibility of maintaining this data for you with utmost confidentiality, and then make sense of it by conducting a deep dive into this data with a mix of research and analytics tools. We help the firms in defining and executing their data analytics practices to start with and then go about creating dashboards that throw actionable insights. Cross-selling is just one of the application areas of our data analytics work for professional services firms. 

    How do you support law firms in terms of organic revenue growth?

    In terms of organic growth, law firms can grow via lateral team hiring, opening new offices, partnerships or service lines. We can help you first access which practice area, service, or geography to select for expansion based on internal strengths and market trends. We support law firms in evaluating and executing each of these opportunities. 

    For lateral hiring, we provide a lay of the land in terms of legal talent availability and efficiency in the geography, practice area or service line. 

    When it comes to new offices, the primary puzzle is to identify the most viable location for your firm. We run macroeconomic studies and study industry potential studies to understand the growth prospects and competitive intensity. 

    For service line and practice area expansion, senior stakeholders evaluate the growth potential, synergies with existing teams, ongoing rates and profitability profile, competitive intensity, and client pools, before embarking on the expansion journey.

    Similarly, we help you find relevant partners in other geographies. These may not only be other law firms but firms in allied industries that can serve as a potential revenue source. 

    We support these areas by leveraging our deep industry knowledge of client industries, the competitive landscape in the professional services space, and the pool of specialist analysts and data analytics experts supported by our proprietary technology and information assets built over the years. 

    You touched upon the concept of key account management. What is the kind of support you offer in this space?

    In any organisation, a set of clients are identified as key accounts because either they contribute significantly to the revenue or are critical for the firm due to some other factors such as high growth potential, nature of work, prestige, etc. Companies are always looking to shield these customers from competitors and grow their own book of business with them over time. 

    To stay on top of things, lawyers and professional staff at the law firm are expected to stay current on the business dynamics impacting these clients. We, basically, develop a near-real-time insights engine for these key accounts so that you know what is going on with these businesses and what is it that you can do about it. 

    For instance, say that one of your key account companies has declared in its earnings call that it has raised $500 million and is gearing for an M&A driven growth strategy. With this information, you know that you need to have a top of mind recall for the client as an M&A advisory firm and hence you are required to initiate campaigns and conversations with the client stakeholders around the subject. I have given a very simple idea to put across my point. There are several complex use cases where the implications may not be as apparent. 

    In summary, you don’t just need this information, you need it faster than others and you need an implication-driven commentary to go with it. As a number of surveys have shown over the years, law firm clients love lawyers who have a business context. We provide this business context just in time for lawyers to react and take it to the clients. We support law firms in institutionalising this practice. 

    What are the mega-trends that you believe will offer a big runway for law firms in the future?

    The world has changed drastically in the last 2 years or so. In light of the recent events, I believe that 5 mega-themes will play out in the next 5-10 years that will lead to business growth and changes in the work/client mix. According to our research, these mega-trends are metaverse, climate change, geopolitical changes, global supply chain realignment, and government actions and regulatory outreach.   

    Get in touch with Sourabh Gogna –

  • AKANKSHA BISEN, MANAGER- BD & DIGITAL MARKETING AT TRILEGAL, ON CHOOSING A CAREER IN LAW AND HER BUSINESS DEVELOPMENT ROLE AT LAW FIRMS

    AKANKSHA BISEN, MANAGER- BD & DIGITAL MARKETING AT TRILEGAL, ON CHOOSING A CAREER IN LAW AND HER BUSINESS DEVELOPMENT ROLE AT LAW FIRMS

    This interview has been published by Maaz Akhtar Hashmi and The SuperLawyer Team.

    Having completed your graduation from Gargi College in commerce, you shifted to Campus Law Centre, Delhi, to pursue the three-year law program. Was that transition planned or a leap of faith? Could you walk us through your journey in the field of Law?

    It was a planned decision, and there were many factors – being the first-generation lawyer in my family is one of them.

    It is great to have a black and a white coat in the family. My dad being the holder of the white coat – I opted for the black one.

    On a serious note – I always had a knack for knowing and appreciating the legal nuances. That later just spilled over my vocational side. In my extended family, we have had lawyers and judges. My discussions with them during family get-togethers led me to legal studies. Much before I studied law, I read books on constitutional law, and it fascinated me. At a practical level, I believe that commerce and law are a potent combination.

    To answer your second question –  My education in commerce and law taught me how businesses get impacted by laws in several ways throughout their journey. My curiosity increased on how new businesses are changing the world and how organisations are changing their working styles and processes to move forward in the competitive world. This ignited a spark in my mind to learn more about businesses, which led me to partner with a business consulting firm post my studies and a brief litigation stint where I provided business advisory services to start-ups, e-retailers and large retail companies, among others.

    After spending three years at a consulting firm, I realised that my business advisory skillset could be best put to use in a law firm setup. That’s when I took up the role of setting up the BD function at a mid-tier law firm. I was responsible for identifying growth opportunities in national and international markets, managing marketing and client relationships.

    After pursuing LLB from CLC Delhi, you did your masters from NLSIU, the premier institution for law in India. What prompted you to pursue your master’s in business laws?

    MBL seemed like a great option to pursue after LLB as I kept thinking about the nexus between law and business. The curriculum is top-notch and gives you a 360-degree view of the finer nuances of the law as applicable in the business world.

    I am a firm believer that education broadens your horizon. It clarifies your vision and objective in life. In my case, I believe it helped me make informed professional decisions.

    Having practised for over a year in the CBI court, you shifted to independent consulting and legal advice post which you worked as in a practice development role at a law firm. How does such an unchartered role pan out in a law firm?

    Everyone goes through a phase of transformation. I believe it was my interest area, and I exhausted some other options before I found my true calling in the business development function in the legal sector. I tried everything possible (I still do and plan to keep doing it) in an attempt at self-discovery – something we all do once in a while, if not constantly, throughout life’s journey.

    I have always been fascinated by law, but I didn’t know the industry had so many opportunities. After working as a lawyer and getting some exposure as a consultant, I found myself ready to take up a BD role in a law firm.

    That said, I think it’s important to highlight that it took a lot of discussions, convincing and brainstorming to develop such a profile. I didn’t have many people in the industry who were doing similar work that I intended to do.

    To be the senior, I was looking for when I was a junior; I host a weekly virtual coffee for students and legal professionals who want to explore careers in a law firm’s BD and marketing function.

    It is heartening to see that several individuals (including in-house counsels, law graduates and budding lawyers) want to explore the other side and do not want to stick to practising law just because they studied it.

    You are now working in the Business Development and Digital Marketing domain. You are mainly responsible for managing business development and handling the digital and social initiatives of a leading law firm. In that light, could you explain the array of work you undertook in the last 3 years being in the firm?

    I manage all aspects of the firm’s digital personality, from its website to social media. In addition to that, I have also made the firm’s efforts in the DI space visible in the last couple of years. Further, there is a whole lot of work that goes behind the scenes to make conferences and business meetings successful. You can say that I am a member of the behind-the-scenes crew.

    You have also served as a Treasurer and now the VP for Toastmasters International, a premium group helping individuals worldwide to become confident communicators and able leaders. What attracted you to divulge into such positions of responsibilities?

    Personal development is a constant DIY exercise. For example, during the pandemic, I worked on myself by taking workshops and training that helped me in improving other areas of life, like communication or leadership skills.

    One such exercise led me to get associated with Toastmasters International and winning some awards later down the line.

    Toastmasters is a non-profit organisation and thrives because of its volunteers. I believe in paying it forward; that is one of the reasons I stood up in the elections.

    Additionally, I started a community for people to take up a 30-day challenge of video making. This was my way of paying it forward to the community supporting my journey to improve my video and presentation skills. Close to 50 people joined the challenge, and we were flooded with video across Instagram and YouTube. Like I say, having your community helps. It’s not only sustainable but also enriching – as you learn together.

    How would you describe the relevance of LinkedIn as a platform in the legal industry today? Would you like to accord our viewers some tips to optimize their LinkedIn?

    Let me ask you (or whosever is reading) this:

    • How have you been networking or keeping in touch with your clients during the pandemic?
    • What was the platform that you used from the comfort of your home?
    • Which is the ever-growing platform for professionals to network?
    • Where are your clients or potential clients already present?

    If I had to use only one word, it would be LinkedIn.

    To answer your second question, I am going to share my personal experience of using LinkedIn.

    • I started using LinkedIn intermittently when I was fresh out of college.
    • I haven’t received an Inmail that was unprofessional.
    • I started connecting with/following people who I thought would act as a guiding light.
    • I have connected with people from diverse backgrounds whose insights have helped me evolve as a professional.
    • I have got jobs through LinkedIn.
    • This is the only platform where I spend most of my time, and every day brings new learning for me.
    • I wish I could have started earlier – it would have gained more guidance from mentors, internship opportunities, practical tips from seniors, references for jobs and an edge over my peers to create my personal brand.
    • I believe this is the platform that would benefit you in different ways at different stages of your professional journey.

    I hope this clarifies some apprehension, and may you make the best of this platform and, in a way, it is meant to be explored.

    To your third question, and since your platform (SuperLawyer) attracts a diverse crowd, I will share one basic point that very few LinkedIn experts talk about. 

    Try to understand your niche. The clearer you define it, the better your chances are to find them. You can go as deep as defining the sectors and industry. For instance, my broad and ambiguous TG would be law firms. However, if I try and define it, My TG is CMO/COO of commercial law firms looking for expanding their BD and marketing efforts.

    To make your reader’s work easier, here is a template that will be helpful: Fill it for yourself.

    • My TG is ___________ looking for _______________, Or
    • I solve ________ problem for __________companies/people. You can also add sectors/practice area to have a better and clearer TG.

    This is particularly helpful for lawyers as progressively; the ask is becoming specific and laser focussed.

    As a professional, you have stated that you endeavor to help law firms grow their business by increasing client engagement outside traditional methods of communication. Could you highlight some valuable points related to client management at law firms to enhance businesses?

    In recent years, legal marketers have had to find new ways of marketing. Traditionally word of mouth was common and still is in some circles. But, with increased use for digital marketing, this has become less effective as people are constantly on their phones or computers rather than listening closely to one person at a time. In addition, there’s more work involved beyond just traditional modes of marketing; you need to understand what those potential clients want before they even contact you!

    In law firms, BD and marketing are closely and intricately integrated. The work essentially is to create awareness about the firm and its capabilities in the minds of decision-makers within the relevant target market – usually by deploying marketing tools such as websites, social media, newsletters, PR/media coverage, webinars/seminars and thought leadership.

    Being someone who has spent years in business development at law firms, could you enunciate one day in your life as a BD professional and skills required for the position, which students can imbibe during their law school days?

    I can’t give you a typical day because it’s different on different days. One day you are doing your routine work the next day, you get something entirely different. This is because business development as a field within the legal industry is growing and gaining traction. As law firms mature and increase in size, the scope of marketing and business development will grow further.

    As Business Development Manager, my typical day involves interacting with the firm’s stakeholders and the BD team to discuss outreach strategies and new business opportunities. I also liaison between our team and other departments to ensure that the projects are on schedule.

    Business development requires strong communication and time management abilities, in addition to the keen attention to detail and an ability to manage multiple projects at once with accuracy. It also helps if you enjoy working on your own because BD managers are often required to travel for conferences and speaking engagements. These are some skills that students can learn during their law school days!

    You have repeatedly written about the reinforcement of women pursuing careers in the legal sector. Which initiatives in the legal field are required to promote a change and neutralize gender biases at workplaces?

    During my discussion with various lawyers (men and women), I have realized that many women lawyers leave the profession after a certain age despite being brilliant at work, which is a loss to the profession. To avoid or reduce such situations, there should be more women-oriented policies in place, facilitating the retention of valuable lawyers/staff willing to resume work after a certain time gap. Policies like ‘Flexi-career’, work from home and in the case of young mothers, provision for day-care in the office premise becomes a relief. Also, it encourages them to combat difficulties and continue to remain in the profession.

    The thought is to provide an environment to women conducive to fulfilling their professional dreams despite social and domestic pressure faced by them. Of course, women know they’re just as competent as men, but I believe, if such policies are well placed in the legal sector, more women lawyers would be open to the idea of starting a family, pursuing higher education, or experimenting with other career options. This will result in significant value addition to their respective firms and the profession.

    Due to the ongoing pandemic shouldering responsibilities has become an arduous task. Could you please tell our readers how do you juggle motherhood with a demanding career? How should the present generation balance work and enjoy the luxuries of life?

    Parenthood is a difficult task in itself, becoming a first timer even more so. And add to it, becoming a first-time parent in the times of corona, all of it was just unimaginable.

    I became a mother just before the pandemic hit us. Quarantine or not, it’s multitasking for working moms, but this phase has made us the multitasking ninjas of doing the impossible.

    In no way can I reduce stress on all the other working moms. However, here are some tips that helped me keep myself aligned on both fronts amidst the crisis.

    1. Look at the silver lining – I count my blessings, always.
    2. Re-asses your daily tasks – I can’t function without my planner.
    3. Brush up your skills – I am enrolled under one workshop/course at any given point in time.
    4. Meet people who are going through the same – build your community
    5. Eat that frog for breakfast – try to accomplish the most important/critical thing early in the morning.
    6. Be a little proud of yourself – Look back occasionally and pat your back to have come this far.
    7. Accept help – No one person can do everything alone. We all need collective care and community.
    8. Don’t expect too much of yourself – give yourself grace
    9. Make your health (physical and mental, both) a priority – You can’t pour from an empty cup.

    I have started following this after I became a mother, but I think it applies to everyone.

    What advice would you have for others who want to set off in a similar direction?

    I am not great at giving advice, but I can share what worked for me. I tried everything and then figured out what I wanted to do. Being a lawyer and coming from a middle-class family with road maps laid out for me, I explored my options and settled for what worked for me.

    After removing the limitations posed by our educational background, it is always crucial for us to explore all the possibilities.

    I strongly feel that we are all artists once we figure out what our ‘art’ is. Artists are great because they do what they love and what they are meant to be doing.

    So, my only suggestion would be – In a generation of professionals, be an artist.

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