You started your legal career in 2007 after completing your BALLB (Hons.) from Kurukshetra University. What motivated you to choose law as your career, and could you walk us through your journey from those early days to where you are now?
My entry into the Legal field was very much certain since I am a third generation Lawyer. My grandfather practiced in Labour Laws, my father is still practicing in District Courts Patiala and hence my parents had already decided during my childhood about my profession and hence I entered the field. Initially, I started learning the procedures followed in court and the ground realities of the Legal field where I came to know about how to apply what I learnt in my degree. For this, I actually went through the entire degree subjects 4-5 times again doing self-study in order to get a deep knowledge of the subjects so that I can have better understanding of the cases I got to handle. Slowly and gradually, I developed my own understanding in law and by that time I was able to handle the cases independently. Being a trial lawyer, handling the evidence part was most challenging and most interesting as well. I started cross examining the witnesses independently and luckily many cases went my way. However, in Patiala there wasn’t much to learn about since there was hardly any variety in the cases we got; mostly there used to be Cheque bounce matters, matrimonial disputes, NDPS etc. and those cases were very much cyclostyled and my eagerness to learn wanted me go out and do something new in the field.
You began your law practice at the Patiala district courts, where your father was a well-established professional. How did working in the district courts shape your approach to law, and what key lessons did you take away from those early formative years?
My time in the Courts was extremely important. Being a legal professional, the most important thing is to know how to draft a legal document and an in-house Counsel is always expected to have very crisp drafting skills which would go on to protect the interest of the organization. Further, being meticulous, attention to detail, presence of mind, patience and calculated aggression were the key qualities I learnt during my practice days.
You mentioned your encounter with the Legal Head of CIPLA, which inspired your transition into corporate law. What about that interaction made you decide to shift from litigation to becoming an in-house counsel?
As I had stated, in one of my cases related to CIPLA, I met the in-house counsel of the company and had a great conversation with him about how things go as an in-house counsel and what are the prospects. He told me that as an in-house, he came across several types of different cases and that made his knowledge in the field vast and comprehensive and to add to that the biggest incentive was the opportunity to travel. Afterwards, I discussed it with my elder brother, who was already working in corporate and he also reiterated a similar view. That was perhaps the trigger point of me looking to shift to the Corporate. It took me quite a while to get my first opportunity in a large organization. The first one month was like a roller coaster but gradually I managed to get into the system and started understanding corporate governance and that was perhaps the turning point of my life both professionally and personally as it gave me so much energy to work and live round the clock. Leaving the comfort zone was tough initially but once you are out of it, THERE BEGINS THE LIFE.
What advice would you give to young legal professionals who aspire to transition from litigation to corporate in-house roles, especially those aiming to work with large multinational corporations?
Ever since I have started my journey with the corporate, I have met many legal professionals eager to know how things work in the sector. Many are under the myth of “Corporate Slavery”. I shared my experiences with them of how I managed PAN India litigation and contracts of my first Company single handedly. From working for 4-5 hours a day in practice to working 16-18 hours in corporate was an eye opener and a huge confidence booster. I only advise the youngsters to look for excellence and not results early on. Law is a vast field and to move on in this field, not only you need to know the law, but how and where to apply it and this requires both theoretical as well as practical knowledge. In-House Counsels do a whole lot of drafting work including contracts, complaints, notices etc. Litigation lawyers hardly get to know about drafting of contracts and hence i advise them to find some good books pertaining to contract drafting if they have any plans to shift to the sector.
You’ve been involved in arbitration cases with values ranging from ₹50 lakh to ₹300 crore. What are some key skills a lawyer needs to successfully handle such high-stakes cases, and how do you manage the pressure?
When the stakes are high, the pressure is high as well but as a legal professional, my job is to find the law point and the circumstances favouring my organization so that I can benefit them or at least prevent any loss. The skills I learnt in practice also lets me foresee the tentative result sometimes and that helps us to plan accordingly. The thing with high stake matters is that you need to thing out of the box sometimes to get the desired results and for that you need to have strong legal knowledge but also to know the ground realities.
With over 17 years of legal experience and handling high-pressure cases, how do you manage work-life balance, and what advice would you give to legal professionals to avoid burnout?
In my previous organization, I did go through that burnout because of the urgencies involved. The stakes were high and time was less and that is when you learn and develop a strong temperament. Sometimes, there were late hour calls and emails but I had set a time for my “homework” so that I can give time to family and household works too and me being a travel bug, occasional holiday was always going to be there. To add to that, I am an early riser and a cyclist so every morning an hour’s ride would freshen me up with all the energy to go hard for the day.
In your view, how important is interdisciplinary knowledge, such as understanding business or finance, for a successful legal career in the corporate world?
Corporate is all about business and finances and whosoever is working in corporate needs to know about it. During my stint with Isgec Heavy Engineering, I learnt a lot about International Business processes as to how contracts of supply work and how the conditions are set by the companies and where to negotiate. I was naive back then but going through so many Contracts of Supply, Erection and Commissioning and those tender documents was another experience. Especially when I was told that the documents drafted by me are going to Russia or Dubai; it sometimes gave me goosebumps but it made me work harder and to get a better understanding about the subject.
You’ve managed a team of 40 lawyers in your current role. What leadership qualities do you think are essential for managing a successful legal team, and how do you mentor young lawyers under your guidance?
My job is to allocate the work to empanelled lawyers. Generally, I have a 5-10 conversation with the lawyer to understand his understanding on the subject and if he is a newcomer or unaware about the topic, I provide him/her with the relevant information along with legal provision and let them prepare the draft and as they say, a lawyer’s calibre can be judged by his drafting skills and so i always advise youngsters to draft the document from scratch and avoid doing copy paste; you’re never going to learn copying and pasting. Drafting skill to a lawyer is like a sword to a warrior. Further, a positive approach is a must while you work in a team. “you’re almost there” is always better than “you cannot do it”.
Looking ahead, what emerging legal trends do you think will significantly impact the corporate legal landscape, and how should aspiring legal professionals prepare for them?
The advent of technology has really brought a huge window for legal professionals to enter the corporate world. Earlier, the legal professionals were limited to law practice, judiciary or teaching but now the upcoming generation is proactive and are perhaps 5-7 years quicker than ours. Nowadays, in-house Counsel’s job is not limited to civil, consumer, criminal laws or contract laws; Technology laws, Artificial Intelligence, Intellectual Property Rights, Data Privacy laws have taken over and in the coming times, knowledge about these is going to play a key role. So, I always advise the aspiring professionals to keep getting some knowledge in the fields as they are going to play a pivotal role in carving them a successful in-house Counsel.
More than a decade into your legal career, it must feel like a time lapse to reflect on how it was when you started versus how it is now. How has the experience changed?
There has been a significant shift in the entire concept and perception of legal practice. In India, the legal profession has always been regarded as a noble one, and it has grown rapidly over the past 50 years to become the world’s largest branch of the profession.
When I started, legal practice was not as professionalized as it is today. Now, it is managed like a business, with considerable emphasis on marketing one’s profession through online platforms.
We relied heavily on books, working tirelessly to gain legal knowledge and searching for judgments. Hours were spent just browsing through voluminous texts. However, with the advent of the Internet, there is now greater access to information related to legal practice. All information is just a fingertip away. Nowadays, young professionals have everything at their disposal—from information to apex court judgments and even guidance on how to draft an application. Everything is handed to them on a platter, ready to be served and consumed. Additionally, there has been a growing preference among young graduates to join law firms, which was not a common choice earlier.
Litigation is often very stressful, and managing both professional and personal life must be challenging. Could you please share some tips on balancing both for success?
Litigation is a very time-consuming venture. It demands a significant investment of our time, involving intensive study, research, and hours spent going through documents and drafting applications. Presence of mind is crucial while drafting or making a submission before the court, as even a minor mistake can cause significant harm to our clients. Legal practice is serious business and should not be taken lightly, which leaves us with very little personal time. However, it’s essential to recognize that our mental and physical well-being is equally important. Success in our professional lives is intertwined with our personal lives. A healthy mind and body are vital for a successful career, so we must take adequate care of ourselves. Sufficient sleep and healthy eating habits are essential as well.
Having practiced at both the trial court and high court levels, what differences in work culture have you observed?
The High Court is the highest judiciary in the state. It is the apex court, and all other courts are subordinate to it. The High courts are Courts of Record, and their decisions can be used by subordinate courts as references when delivering judgments. The High Court decisions are binding on all lower courts within the state over which it has jurisdiction.
A trial court, on the other hand, is a court of original jurisdiction where trials take place. Appeals from the decisions of trial courts are usually heard by higher courts with the power of appellate review.
Unfortunately, there has been a noticeable decline in the work culture at all levels of the judiciary in recent years. There are prolonged delays in court proceedings, despite the constitutional guarantee of an expeditious trial under Article 21 of the Constitution of India, which aims to provide relief as quickly as possible to aggrieved persons.
You’ve recently been involved with some environmental concerns. How do you take climate responsibility at the individual level, if you could highlight your efforts?
We are all aware of global warming—a gradual increase in the Earth’s temperature, primarily due to increased levels of carbon dioxide, CFCs, and other pollutants. Various factors contribute to global warming, including deforestation, excessive use of vehicles, air conditioners, refrigerators, and industrialization.
Deforestation is a significant cause of global warming, and the resulting imbalance in the ecosystem leads to droughts and floods.
At present, I am dealing with issues related to rampant, unscientific, and life-threatening illegal mining and stone quarrying activities in certain parts of the Birbhum district in West Bengal. These operations involve activities such as drilling, blasting with heavy explosives, excavation, loading, transporting, crushing, and size separation, all conducted without adequate safety measures. Crushers are being operated without any licenses or permits from the appropriate authorities. The hills have been reduced to half their height. The entire atmosphere is covered in dust, endangering the health and lives of the local population, and threatening to disrupt the ecosystem in the future. Although the Honorable National Green Tribunal, Eastern Zone Bench, Kolkata, has passed an order to immediately halt these illegal operations, the mining and quarrying activities continue in utter disregard of the court’s order. This is a matter of great concern for me.
Recently, the entire criminal justice system received an overhaul with the new criminal codes. We would love to hear your take on this.
Yes, the Indian Parliament recently passed three new criminal laws: The Bharatiya Nyaya Sanhita (BNS), The Bharatiya Nagarik Suraksha Sanhita (BNSS), and The Bharatiya Sakshya Adhiniyam (BSA).
These new laws came into effect on July 1st, 2024, and are set to replace the existing Indian Penal Code (IPC), The Criminal Procedure Code (CrPC), and the Indian Evidence Act, respectively.
The Bharatiya Nyaya Sanhita (BNS) replaces the Indian Penal Code. It introduces several new offenses, such as Clause 69, which penalizes sexual intercourse conducted under deceitful means, such as false promises of promotion or employment, marrying after concealing one’s identity, or through other forms of inducement.
Another significant change is the recognition of murder on grounds of caste, community, or race as a distinct offense, as per Clause 103 of the BNS. There are also provisions related to terrorism and organized crime, as mentioned in Clause 111(1) of the BNS. Additionally, Clause 304(1) of the BNS introduces and defines a new term: “Snatching.”
Similarly, The Bharatiya Nagarik Suraksha Sanhita replaces the Code of Criminal Procedure of 1973. It mandates forensic investigation for offenses punishable by imprisonment of seven years or more and allows the production of electronic communications as evidence during investigations, trials, or inquiries.
The Bharatiya Sakshya Adhiniyam (BSA) permits the introduction of electronic and digital records. To provide better protection and transparency in the investigation of rape cases, the law allows for oral evidence to be taken electronically and recorded via audio-video.
We often overlook client management. How important is it in individual practice, and how can one learn this skill?
The legal profession is a noble one, introduced to assist those aggrieved by serious issues such as threats to their safety or dispossession of their properties. We must always take our clients’ problems seriously and strive to achieve justice for them through appropriate legal proceedings, arbitration, and other means.
You have been involved in both litigation and arbitration. How do you perceive the recent trend towards strengthening ADR (Alternative Dispute Resolution) in the country?
The legal framework for resolving disputes through Alternative Dispute Resolution is provided under Section 89 of the Civil Procedure Code, 1908. This section recognizes arbitration, conciliation, mediation, and judicial settlement, including settlement through Lok Adalat.
For me, providing legal relief to my clients as expeditiously as possible is of utmost importance. The overall delay in legal proceedings can frustrate the timely delivery of justice. Resolving issues through mediation, arbitration, and judicial settlement is less time-consuming and offers an alternative channel of relief.
How do you stay connected with your interns and students? Any tips for youngsters in this profession?
My interns and students are like my own children. I feel a deep responsibility toward them and connect with them on a personal level. I remember my first days in court—the newness, the lack of practical experience, the uncertainties. It was all so alien to me. These memories help me understand the confusion and challenges my interns and students may face. I strive to be understanding and compassionate, going out of my way to make them feel at ease and impart whatever knowledge I have gained over the years.
My advice to youngsters is to remain positive, patient, hardworking, and dedicated to their profession. They should also uphold strong principles in both their professional and personal lives.
Can you share a motivational book or film, or a philosophy that keeps you going?
I believe that my life is a book in itself, filled with experiences—the ups and downs I’ve faced, a deeper understanding of human nature, and the maturity I’ve gained over the years. Observing people and their behavior, especially how their approaches change with circumstances, has provided me with valuable insights. I am writing about my experiences and the lessons I’ve learned during my journey in the legal profession over the past decade.
It may sound a bit introspective, but when I reflect on the incredible experiences I’ve had—from my childhood to becoming the person I am today, a woman with maturity and integrity—I can humbly say that I am my inspiration.
The legal domain is undergoing transformative changes, and lawyers need regular upskilling. How do you keep yourself updated with this tide of change?
The legal profession in India has evolved significantly over the centuries. Since independence, the Advocates Act of 1961 has brought about substantial reforms, contributing to the effective administration of justice in society. The profession has become more globalized, with numerous amendments to the laws of our country. Therefore we as lawyers, must stay actively updated with these changes through both offline and online studies of the latest laws and judgments.
Can you please share your childhood memories, what were some key experiences or influences that led you to choose a career in law? Was there anyone who particularly inspired or motivated you to pursue this path?
I was raised in a middle-class household in Bulandshahr, Uttar Pradesh, where I was born in 1991. My family moved to Delhi in 1995, and I have lived there ever since. My education consisted of eight classes at Sant Vivekanand Public School, followed by classes nine and ten at Hindon Public School, and classes eleven and 12 at Mukherjee Memorial School. I then completed my B.Sc. (Physics) at the University of Delhi’s Ramjas College. I have no legal family background as such I had no interest in law until my first year of graduation, and I never thought to become a lawyer in the Future. However, as I started my second year of graduating, I learned about the numerous well-known characteristics of the Campus Law Center and its graduates.
Can you share some of the challenges you faced during the initial days of your legal career, and what motivated you to take the Advocate on Record (AOR) exam?
During my time in law school, I decided to pursue a career as an Advocate-on-Record (AOR) in the future. To qualify for the AOR examination, I needed four years of practice as an advocate and one year of training with an existing AOR. Therefore, I decided to start from scratch and join the chamber of Sh. Rajesh Mahindra, a well-known civil advocate at Tis Hazari Court. Under his mentorship, I learned the fundamentals of civil law, drafting, arguments, and procedural aspects.
In 2017, I took a significant step in my career by joining Intelia Law Offices as a Senior Associate, where I worked until 2018. Following this, I embarked on my independent practice at Tis Hazari Court. My dedication and hard work led to my appointment as a panel counsel for the Delhi Legal Services Authority (DLSA). Since then, I have been serving as a panel counsel on the civil panel in the North East and West districts of DLSA, continuing to hone my skills and contribute to the legal community.
How do you manage your multiple roles, including being a legal aid counsel, a media panelist, and an advocate, without compromising on any of them? How do you balance your legal practice with media engagements, and what value do you see in this role?
Balancing multiple roles is challenging but achievable with disciplined time, management, and effective delegation. Media engagements complement my legal practice by enhancing public awareness and professional visibility, ultimately contributing to my growth as an advocate and public servant.
As an Advocate on Record, what are some of the most challenging cases you’ve handled at the Supreme Court, and how did you approach them? Please share your first experience appearing in court? What were the emotions and challenges you faced, and how did that experience shape your perspective on advocacy?
I became an Advocate-On-Record last December only as such I do not have too much experience as an Advocate-On-Record but I have been practicing in the Supreme Court for four years and appeared in hundreds of matters and gained a lot of experience. You can approach the client by your hard work which must be reflected in your case.
How does your work with the Delhi State Legal Services Authority impact the community, and what motivates you to continue providing legal aid?
I have been working with the Delhi State Legal Service Authority since 2017 appeared in more than hundreds of cases and finally left after becoming Advocate-On-Record. Working with DLSA is a different type of experience where you are blessed to help needy people who do not have money to fight for their legal rights. Being a Legal Aid Counsel, you have an opportunity to meet the persons who are needy and don’t have any knowledge, source of income to get justice.
You’ve published many articles and received recognition in various media outlets. How important is it for legal professionals to engage in public discourse and share their knowledge?
Engaging in public discourse and sharing knowledge is increasingly important for legal professionals for several reasons: 1. Public Education and Awareness 2. Professional Credibility and Influence 3. Shaping Legal and Policy Debates 4. Legal professionals can use their platform to advocate for social justice and reforms. 5. Professional Development and Building Public Trust in the Legal System
Overall, legal professionals who engage in public discourse not only benefit their careers but also contribute significantly to society by promoting legal literacy, influencing policy, and advocating for justice.
You attended an advocacy workshop organized by George Washington University Law School. What insights did you gain from this experience, and do you recommend similar workshops for new entrants in the legal field?
By attending a workshop, especially new entrants in the legal field may enhance their communication skills, strategic thinking, practical experience and confidence in the legal Field. I highly recommend similar workshops for new entrants in the legal field. They offer a comprehensive introduction to the practical aspects of legal advocacy and provide foundational skills that are essential for a successful legal career.
Outside of your legal career, what are some of your personal hobbies or interests that help you maintain a work-life balance?
I like playing cricket, archery, and writing poems. It is very difficult to maintain a work-life balance along with Advocacy but when you love your profession everything is possible.
What advice would you give to young lawyers who aspire to practice at the Supreme Court or start their chambers?
I would like to advise young lawyers that they should start their practice from the trial court and read at least one judgment daily on any topic that they like. I do not suggest any young lawyer to start your practice just after passing the LLB. He should work with a senior Advocate for at least three years to explore the practical knowledge of this profession.
What prompted you to establish the Law Chamber of Manish Kumar, and what vision do you have for its future? What are your future goals in the legal profession, and what new dimensions do you hope to explore in your career?
My wife who is also an Advocate encouraged me to start my law office i.e. Law Chamber of Manish Kumar. I do not want to share my future dream but you will have come to know my future goals in future.
Abhiraj, could you please introduce yourself to our readers and walk us through your journey, from what inspired you to pursue a career in law to where you are today at Deutsche Bank Group company? What pivotal moments or experiences have shaped your career trajectory thus far?
Absolutely, it’s a pleasure to share my journey. My path into the world of law was somewhat unconventional. I was born and raised in a middle-class family in Samastipur, a small district in Bihar (India). During that time, engineering and medical were the go-to career choices, but I had a different path in mind where I decided to pursue commerce and later aim for CA, steering away from the mainstream.
While gearing up for a CA course in Delhi after my 12th board exam, a chance encounter with Chanakya National Law University advertisement in a newspaper changed everything. With my father’s attention drawn to that advertisement and his subsequent encouragement, I decided to give it a shot, despite doubts. Surprisingly :), I cleared the exam, prompting a last-minute decision to pursue law instead of commerce. Thus began my journey into the legal realm in 2006 and subsequently earned my law degree in 2011.
Law school was an amazing time for me, packed with fun, studies, and a range of extracurricular activities. From internships to various co-curricular endeavors, these experiences not only enhanced my understanding of the law but also helped shape my character and confidence in this field.
Transitioning from academia to the professional sphere wasn’t easy, especially as a first-generation lawyer. After gaining insights into court procedures at a boutique law firm for about a year, I made my foray into the corporate world, beginning my journey at UnitedLex Corporation. There, I honed my skills in contract drafting, vetting and negotiation for their Fortune 500 clients, eventually transitioning to in-house counsel roles at MNC’s like Pearson, Randstad (seconded to Idemia), MPS Ltd. I have acquired extensive and varied experience during my tenure at these companies, spanning across various facets of law and industries. This includes, but is not limited to, managing and supporting legal functions encompassing advisory services, litigation and arbitration, legal & regulatory compliance, Intellectual Property Rights (IPR), contract management, acquisitions, stakeholder management and other corporate matters. Today, I find myself at Deutsche Bank Group company, where I am fortunate to apply my legal expertise in a dynamic and challenging environment. My role here as a Technology, Regulatory & Privacy Lawyer allows me to not only navigate complex legal landscapes but also contribute to strategic decision-making processes that drive business success in a global market.
In short, I can say that each step has been filled with challenges and learning opportunities, supported by colleagues and mentors along the way. Throughout my journey so far, pivotal moments and experiences have played a significant role in shaping my trajectory in the field of law.
Finally, I want to express my heartfelt gratitude to my family and my alma maters: Central Public School, DAV School, and Chanakya National Law University. Their unwavering support and dedication to nurturing my learning and skills have laid the foundation for my professional journey.
Your journey seems incredibly diverse, from legal counsel to data protection officer. How did you transition into your current role at Deutsche Bank Group company, and what inspired you to specialize in technology and data protection law?
My journey has been quite varied, indeed. Transitioning into my current role at Deutsche Bank Group company was a result of my passion for technology and data protection law, coupled with my background in legal counsel. Over the years, I’ve been increasingly drawn to the intersection of law and technology, recognizing the critical importance of data protection in our digital age. This led me to pursue additional training and certifications in data protection and privacy, equipping me with the necessary expertise to transition into the role of a Data Protection Officer. The opportunity to work at Deutsche Bank Group company presented itself as an ideal platform to apply my skills and knowledge in a dynamic and challenging environment, where data protection is paramount.
For this, I would like to express my gratitude to my current company for providing me with the opportunity to learn and grow in the field of data privacy alongside with my responsibilities as legal counsel where I am currently providing strategic legal advice and support in relation to legal topics and issues around technology and outsourcing regulation, data protection, intellectual property, contracting, and related areas impacting bank business in the region. In addition, I also support the management of legal, regulatory and reputational risk in outsourcing and tech-related transactions.
We noticed you’re passionate about technology. How do you see emerging technologies like AI, Blockchain, and Big Data impacting the legal landscape in the future?
Technology is a great teacher. It constantly teaches us that change is the only constant in the evolution of technology. Over time, new technologies replace old ones, which can bring new problems and challenges. New technologies are constantly pushing the boundaries of the law and therefore lawyers and legal professionals around the world are witnessing significant changes in the way they practice law, thanks to innovations like artificial intelligence, blockchain, and data analytics.
Emerging technologies such as AI, Blockchain etc. are poised to revolutionize the legal landscape in numerous ways:
AI in Legal Research: AI-powered tools can sift through vast amounts of legal data in seconds, significantly expediting legal research and document review.
Predictive Analytics: By analyzing past case outcomes and legal trends, AI can predict potential outcomes of ongoing cases, enabling lawyers to make more informed decisions and develop stronger strategies.
Automating Routine Tasks: AI-driven automation can support repetitive tasks at preliminary stages like contract review, document drafting, and due diligence. This allows legal professionals to focus on higher-value activities that require more human judgment and creativity.
Data Analytics for Case Management: Big Data analytics can extract valuable insights from large volumes of legal data, helping lawyers identify patterns, assess risks, and optimize case management strategies.
Overall, the convergence of AI, Blockchain, and Big Data is set to transform the legal profession, driving efficiency, reducing costs and providing new avenues for innovation.
In my opinion, while emerging technologies may reshape the legal profession and alter the nature of legal work, they are unlikely to eliminate the need for skilled legal professionals altogether. Instead, they will complement lawyers’ capabilities, create new opportunities for specialization, and require continuous adaptation and upskilling to thrive in the evolving legal landscape.
Beyond your professional achievements, we hear you’re an avid traveller. How has exploring different cultures influenced your perspective, both personally and professionally?
Certainly! Exploring different cultures through travel has been an enriching experience that has shaped both my personal outlook and professional approach in several ways.
On a personal level, immersing myself in diverse cultures has enriched my understanding of the world and broadened my horizons. Experiencing new cuisines, customs, languages, and traditions has fostered a deep appreciation for the richness and complexity of human society. It has taught me to approach unfamiliar situations with an open mind, curiosity, and respect for cultural differences. Moreover, interacting with people from diverse backgrounds has helped me develop empathy, tolerance, and a global mindset.
Professionally, my travels have enhanced my interpersonal skills, adaptability, and cross-cultural communication abilities. Working in a globalized world, where interactions with clients, colleagues, and stakeholders from different cultural backgrounds and jurisdictions are increasingly common, these skills are invaluable. Moreover, exposure to diverse perspectives and ways of thinking has fueled creativity and problem-solving in my professional endeavors.
Overall, my passion for travel has been a source of inspiration and growth, both personally and professionally that I carry with me in all aspects of my life and work.
You’ve worked with both law firms and in-house legal departments. How do these experiences differ, and which environment do you find more conducive to your professional growth?
Having experienced both law firm and in-house legal environments, I can say that each offers unique advantages and challenges. The key differences between these two settings can influence professional growth in distinct ways.
In a law firm setting, the pace is often fast-paced and diverse, with exposure to a wide range of clients, industries, and legal matters. This diversity provides ample opportunities for skill development, as lawyers are constantly challenged to adapt to new cases and clients.
On the other hand, in-house legal departments offer a more immersive experience within a single organization, allowing lawyers to develop a deep understanding of the company’s business operations, industry dynamics, and strategic objectives. This depth of knowledge enables in-house counsel to provide more targeted and strategic legal advice, aligning legal solutions with broader business goals. Moreover, working in-house provides opportunities to collaborate closely with non-legal departments, such as finance, operations, and marketing, fostering a holistic approach to problem-solving and decision-making.
When considering which environment is more conducive to professional growth, it ultimately depends on individual preferences, career goals, and work style. Some lawyers thrive in the fast-paced, client-focused environment of law firms, where they can gain diverse experience and build a robust professional network. Others may prefer the stability, strategic focus, and sense of ownership that come with working in-house.
Ultimately, the choice between these two environments depends on individual preferences, career goals, and the type of work that best aligns with one’s strengths and interests.
With your broad expertise, what would you say is the one thing the current generation can do to excel in their legal careers, considering the dynamic nature of the profession?
With the legal profession evolving rapidly due to technological advancements, globalization, and shifting societal norms, excelling in this dynamic environment requires a multifaceted approach. However, if I were to highlight one key aspect for the current generation to focus on, it would be adaptability and continuous learning.
Adaptability encompasses the ability to embrace change, learn new skills, and pivot in response to evolving circumstances. In today’s legal landscape, where new laws, regulations, and technologies emerge regularly, lawyers must possess the agility to navigate these changes effectively.
Here’s how the current generation can cultivate adaptability to excel in their legal careers:
Embrace Lifelong Learning: Continuous learning is essential for staying abreast of legal developments and acquiring new skills. Whether it’s through formal education, professional development programs, or self-directed learning, dedicating oneself to ongoing education fosters adaptability by ensuring relevance in a constantly evolving field.
Develop Technological Proficiency: Technology is reshaping the practice of law, from e-discovery tools to AI-powered legal research and contract management platforms. Lawyers who are proficient in leveraging technology to streamline workflows, enhance client services, and analyze data will be better equipped to thrive in the modern legal landscape.
Cultivate Interdisciplinary Skills: The intersection of law with other disciplines such as business, finance, technology etc. is becoming increasingly prominent. Lawyers who possess interdisciplinary skills can offer more holistic solutions to complex legal issues, making them invaluable assets to their clients and organizations.
Networking is key: Start networking with legal professionals, alumni, and legal experts early on. These connections can open doors to exciting opportunities such as jobs, valuable industry insights, and mentorship etc.
In short, being adaptable is key to thriving in today’s fast-paced legal field. If current lawyers can adapt well, they’ll do great in their careers despite how things keep changing.
How do you see a Data Protection Officer can balance the need for data security with the demand for innovation and efficiency in today’s digital age?
Balancing the imperative of data security with the drive for innovation and efficiency is indeed a multifaceted challenge for a Data Protection Officer (DPO) in today’s digital landscape. Achieving this delicate balance requires a proactive approach that integrates robust security measures with agile and adaptable processes.
First and foremost, a DPO can ensure that data protection policies and procedures align with relevant regulations such as GDPR, CCPA, or any other applicable laws. This foundation establishes clear guidelines for data handling, access controls, encryption protocols, and incident response procedures.
To promote innovation and efficiency, one should collaborate closely with their IT and development teams to integrate privacy and security considerations into the design and development of new systems and technologies. By adopting a privacy-by-design approach, one can identify potential risks early in the development lifecycle and implement appropriate safeguards without impeding progress.
Regular risk assessments and security audits are essential to identify vulnerabilities and ensure that security measures remain effective in the face of evolving threats.
Furthermore, one should prioritize the ongoing education and training for all their employees to foster a culture of data security awareness throughout the organization. By empowering staff with the knowledge and tools they need to recognize and respond to security threats, can minimize the likelihood of data breaches while promoting a collective commitment to protecting sensitive information.
By employing a combination of regulatory compliance, risk management, education, collaboration, and proactive measures, DPOs can navigate this balancing act successfully, ensuring that data security remains a priority without hindering the organization’s ability to innovate in today’s digital age.
Your journey includes several internships across different law firms and organizations. Could you share one of your most memorable internship experiences and how it influenced your career path? Additionally, what advice would you give to students regarding the types of internships they should pursue, and how crucial do you believe internships are in shaping one’s legal career?
I participated in internships as a mandatory part of my law curriculum. Throughout the five-year law course, students were required to undertake various internships based on their interests and career aspirations. During my internship with Tata Steel, I gained valuable insights into legal challenges from a corporate standpoint, particularly from an in-house counsel perspective. Working alongside a seasoned team, I had the opportunity to delve into various legal matters and comprehend the intricacies faced by the in-house legal department. This experience significantly influenced my interest in pursuing a career as a corporate lawyer.
My advice to students regarding internships is to seek opportunities that align with their interests and career goals. It’s essential to explore different areas of law to gain a well-rounded understanding of the legal profession. Additionally, internships provide valuable networking opportunities and allow students to build relationships with experienced professionals in the field. I believe that internships are essential for students to explore their interests, gain practical experience, and make informed decisions about their future legal careers.
With your extensive experience across various industries, which one stands out as the most challenging or rewarding in terms of legal complexities?
I firmly believe that with a solid grasp of the basics and a commitment to discipline, navigating various sectors and fields of expertise becomes quite manageable. Among the diverse industries I’ve worked in (service industry, publication & education, Edtech, Information Technology Enabled Services (ITes), banking services especially from technology and privacy standpoint), each has presented unique legal complexities. However, I found the technology sector particularly challenging and rewarding. Innovation in technology moves quickly, which can create new legal questions and challenges that haven’t been addressed before. Navigating these complexities requires staying ahead of emerging trends, understanding intricate intellectual property laws, and addressing complex data privacy concerns. Yet, overcoming these challenges can be immensely rewarding, as it involves shaping the legal framework for groundbreaking technologies that drive societal progress.
Your journey from being an Intellectual Property Counsel in law firms to your current role as Legal Counsel at HP Indiac. is quite impressive. Could you take us on a brief tour of your career path, highlighting key milestones and what inspired your transition to the diverse legal roles you’ve undertaken?
To say the least, the journey from an Intellectual Property Lawyer to that of an In-house counsel has been dramatic with various challenges during the transition. Being a lawyer has always been my aspiration and I had decided quite early on that I wanted to be a lawyer. I went through the same grunt of attending coaching sessions for the law entrance exams, getting into one of the prestigious colleges in the country and starting my legal career. Just like any other freshly graduated lawyer, I started my career as a litigating lawyer and realized early on that litigation is not my cup of tea. This was a huge setback as I was sure that I wanted to be a lawyer. With this inability to fit myself in the litigation landscape, came self-doubt and a fear that maybe I took the wrong choice. I was at crossroads, where at one side I believed I was inept, and the other was a constant nigger within me that I am at the right place. It’s important to recognize that setbacks and doubts are natural parts of any career journey, but it is also important to remember that the legal profession isn’t limited to only litigation; rather offers a wide range of roles and specialities and finding the right fit often involves exploration and experimentation. This realization and acceptance are a valuable insight that guides you towards a more fulfilling career direction.
At that point, I started exploring my other options in the legal profession and came across the practice of Intellectual Property Rights. When I started my role as an IPR lawyer, I had no clue on the depths and potential of this subject. The significance of Intellectual Property Rights was not completely recognized by companies and as IPR lawyers, we often found ourselves at the intersection of law, technology, and business, helping companies protect their intangible assets. The scope was not limited to just providing legal advice but played a crucial role in educating clients about protecting their intellectual property rights and the potential benefits it can offer in terms of innovation, competitiveness, and revenue generation.
As a next step, there was a need to challenge myself and break out my comfort zone despite being a settled IPR lawyer. Transitioning to an in-house counsel role undoubtedly presented new challenges, especially with the lack of experience in handling compliance of a company, but the trick was to approach this challenge with courage and determination. Moving from a specialized role to a broader role required adaptability, willingness to learn and the ability to grasp new concepts and responsibilities all of this while parallelly handling internal conflicts like self-doubt and imposter syndrome. I tag this transition as one of the toughest phase of my professional journey but embracing new challenges and stepping out of one’s comfort zone is often where the most significant growth occurs, and I believe I have embraced this mindset wholeheartedly.
In your role at HP Inc., you’re involved in day-to-day operational work and deal support across different Business Units. Could you give us a glimpse into your daily work routine, highlighting key aspects of your responsibilities and the challenges you often face in managing the legal aspects of the company’s operations?
As an in-house counsel, you are not just a legal advisor but also a strategic partner to the Business, and the role extends beyond providing legal advice to actively contributing to the company’s success and growth. The dynamic nature of the business environment means that your day-to-day responsibilities can vary widely, and you must be prepared to adapt quickly to changing priorities and unforeseen challenges. Unlike a law firm setting where tasks may be more structured and predictable, as an in-house counsel the need is to be more flexible and responsive to the needs of the Business.
The key aspect is to understand not just the legal implications of decisions but also the broader business context in which those decisions are made. This requires an in-depth understanding of the company’s goals, operations, and industry dynamics as well as the ability to balance legal considerations with practical business realities.
Balancing the needs of the Business with imperative legal compliance is indeed a common challenge for in-house counsels. It is natural for the Business to prioritize growth, innovation, and profitability but it is the responsibility of the in-house counsels to ensure that these objectives are pursued within the bounds of law and ethical standards. When Businesses express frustration about legal constraints hindering their operations, it is important for in-house counsels to engage in open communication and foster a collaborative approach. One important aspect that can help to ease this balancing act includes collaborating early on, by being proactive instead of reactive, in-house counsels should encourage the Business to engage with legal counsels early in the planning stages of the projects or initiatives. Through this, legal counsels can help identify issues upfront and ask the business to address these challenges promptly. Another important consideration for in-house counsels is to provide practical solutions. Instead of simply saying “no” to business requests, in-house counsels should work with stakeholders to find creative solutions that achieve their objectives while mitigating legal risks. This also involves structuring documentation and transactions in such a way that minimizes legal exposure or implementing compliance procedures that streamline operations without sacrificing legal integrity. This helps in navigating business needs with legal compliance and fostering a collaborative environment where both objectives can be met harmoniously.
Beyond your corporate role, you’re actively involved in education and mentorship. How do you balance your professional commitments with your passion for teaching law to aspiring students and guiding underprivileged students toward career opportunities?
I am deeply committed to the cause of education and have a strong belief in its transformative powers. I look at it not only as a means of personal advancement but also as a tool for societal progress and change. The role of mentors and teachers has evolved in the present day. With the proliferation of information and access to diverse perspectives, students are more empowered to question and engage in critical discussions with their mentors. This shift presents an opportunity for mentors to adapt to the modern approach. Emphasizing realistic examples and connecting theoretical concepts with practical scenarios is indeed crucial for students to understand the relevance and applicability of their curriculum.
Balancing professional commitments with a passion for teaching can be surely challenging, but dedication towards this cause is the driving force. The passion of bringing about change, and not something at a large level but a perspective that even influencing one person’s life can have a ripple effect that creates a bigger positive change. This mindset stems from an understanding of the power of education to transform individuals and communities.
It is important to acknowledge the sacrifices and challenges that come with juggling multiple commitments, but the moments of fulfilment and gratitude, such as when a student expresses appreciation, makes it all worthwhile. These moments serve as a reminder of the profound impact that educators can have in the lives of their students. Having a strong support system is invaluable in navigating the demands of both professional life and continuing one’s passion. There have been instances where I have worked for all 7 days a week, it is in those moments when you feel if you’re doing the right thing. My family has been my strongest support system. While I have been away, they have managed everything at the backend. I feel extremely privileged and grateful to have such a support system, which I am mindful that many people do not have. It is important to recognize that not everyone has access to the same resources and support networks and acknowledging this privilege imbibes empathy and a commitment to create opportunities for others.
Having worked in law firms and now in a corporate setting, what are the key differences you’ve observed, and how have these differences shaped your approach to legal counsel at HP Inc?
While both law firm and in-house counsel roles involve practicing law, the focus, scope, and dynamics of work significantly differ. Their priorities and perspectives can differ significantly due to their position within the organization. In fact, each role offers unique opportunities and challenges, shaped by the context in which they operate and the priorities that they must consider. It all depends on the lens that you are looking at the problem with. In-house counsels generally have a unique opportunity to immerse in the legal and operational aspects of a single organization in a specific industry, contributing directly to its growth, whereas law firm lawyers have a varied experience bucket. This immersion allows them to develop a comprehensive understanding of their company enabling them to provide support that is tailored to the specific needs and objectives of their company, with a focus on driving business success while ensuring legal compliance and mitigating risk. This often involves finding practical, business-friendly approaches to legal challenges that enable the company to achieve its objectives while managing risk effectively. In addition to providing legal guidance, an in-house counsel is involved in strategic planning, risk management, contract negotiations, regulatory compliance, and of course crisis management. Ultimately both in-house counsels and law firm lawyers play critical roles in the legal profession, each offering substantial contributions and perspectives. Whether working internally for a single organization or externally as part of a law firm, the ultimate goal is to provide effective legal support that helps their clients achieve their objectives while navigating legal complexities.
Your written contributions have been featured in reputable publications like the Law Asia Journal, Lexology, and Jurisonline.in. Can you share your thoughts on the importance of sharing legal knowledge and insights through such platforms?
Absolutely. Sharing legal knowledge and insights is not only a responsibility of a legal professional but also an important aspect of the legal profession. Knowledge sharing encourages collaboration and learning. By sharing experiences, insights, best practices, legal professionals can learn from each other, expand their expertise, and improve the quality of legal services. This is imperative for personal development as it allows the professionals to stay updated on emerging trends and strategies, which is essential for maintaining competence and excellence. It also ensures accessibility. By making resources readily available, legal professionals can level the playing field and ensure that knowledge is shared in a clear, concise, easily understandable manner to a diverse audience. Leveraging technology and digital platforms can enhance the accessibility of legal knowledge sharing initiatives. Online platforms, websites, and mobile applications can make legal information readily available at any time and anywhere making it easier for individuals to access information, regardless of their background or circumstances. However, this works like a double-edged sword, as it can lead to misinformation and confusion if not managed carefully. By promoting trusted sources, providing education and guidance, and engaging in public education efforts, legal professionals can contribute to ensuring that individuals have access to accurate legal information and are better equipped to navigate legal issues effectively.
Winning the Presidents Club Award at HP is a significant achievement. Can you tell us about the project or accomplishment that led to this recognition and how it contributed to your growth as a legal professional?
Winning the HP Presidents Club Award has been a humbling experience for me. This Award is not limited to a specific project, but the overall support provided to my company. Recognitions like these serve more than just a trophy or accolade but a reminder of the meaningful role that I play in the company’s overall journey. I believe that success in any endeavour is rarely achieved in isolation, and it takes an army to win an accomplishment. My little army has significantly contributed to my success. This Award reinforces the impact of my efforts and fuels motivation to strive for even better. I would say, stay curious, embrace change, and remain open to new possibilities. Continue to challenge yourself, step out of your comfort zone and pursue your aspirations with passion and determination. Success is a journey and each achievement, like this Award is a milestone along the way. It’s good to celebrate your accomplishments, but also stay focussed on the path ahead, seeking new ways to learn, grow and make a positive impact.
Balancing a demanding legal career and your commitment to education can be quite intense. What’s your favorite way to unwind and recharge outside of work, and how do you prioritize self-care in your busy schedule?
In the hustle of managing a legal career and passion for education, prioritizing self-care often takes a backseat. However, it is essential to recognize that self-care is crucial for maintaining well-being and effectiveness. Practicing self-compassion by being kind to yourself is non-negotiable. Curling up with a good book is one of my favourite ways to unwind and escape into another world. Reading allows me to relax, learn and expand my horizons. Spending quality time with my family and friends is incredibly important to me. Whether is it catching up for coffee or going for a holiday, connecting with people keeps me energized. I am not a proactive traveller kind, who can make spontaneous plans. I realize this and plan holidays in advance. This also helps me to establish clear boundaries. When I am away on a holiday, I aim to completely detox from work and teaching. This leads to a more fulfilling and rejuvenating break, allowing me to return with renewed energy and focus.
Considering your background in law firms, corporate organizations, and advocacy, if a law student has the opportunity to choose between interning at a law firm, with an advocate, or in a corporate organization, what factors should they consider, and what would be your recommendation based on their career goals?
I get this question quite often and from my personal experience and I can say that there are several factors to consider while considering internship opportunities. Being a first-generation lawyer, I did not have guidance on what would be the ideal combination of internships that would kick start my legal career, which now, in retrospect, I believe has been a blessing since it allowed me to explore multiple opportunities and learn along the way. I made mistakes, learnt from them, and grew.
During interning years, it is very important to concentrate on learning and mentorship. Law students should look for internship opportunities that offer mentorship and hands-on learning. Consider if the internship opportunity is giving a chance to the student to work closely with an experienced lawyer who can provide guidance and support in their professional development. I cannot stress enough on the importance of having a good mentor.
Law students often enter their studies with a broad interest in the field of law but may not have a clear understanding of which specific practice area or industry they want to professionally pursue. In such cases, seeking internship opportunities that provide exposure to multiple fields of the legal profession can be an excellent way to explore different areas of law and gain valuable insights into various practice areas and industries. This can help students make more informed decisions about their future career paths and focus their efforts on areas of law that align with their interests and strengths. Furthermore, exploring diverse internship opportunities can also help students build a versatile skill set, and develop critical thinking and problem-solving abilities. Overall, I would say that law students should not limit themselves to choosing just one internship opportunity but should strive to gain a full 180-degree exposure by exploring multiple fields of the legal profession during their college years. By doing so, students can maximize their learning and growth opportunities, expand their professional networks, and lay a solid foundation for a successful and fulfilling career in law.
With your experience in the legal field, especially in technology law, what advice would you give to the current generation looking to pursue a career in law, particularly in the rapidly evolving tech industry?
The tech industry is constantly evolving and its intersection with legal profession presents both opportunities and challenges. Many technological advancements have legal implications across various areas such as data privacy, cybersecurity, intellectual property, e-commerce, and digital rights. As technology advances, it gives rise to new legal issues and challenges that may not have been previously anticipated which paves way for new regulatory frameworks to be established to address the emerging challenges. Embrace innovation and adaptability as essential qualities for success in the rapidly evolving tech industry. Be open to new ideas, approaches, and technologies. Gain hands-on experience by working on tech-related legal matters, drafting contracts, conducting legal research, and advising clients on technology-related issues. This practical experience can be gained through internships, clerkships, or summer associate positions at law firms, tech companies, government agencies, or legal tech startups.
With massive changes in the tech industry, it helps to attend industry conferences, workshops, and networking events to connect with thought leaders and innovators in the field.
Staying updated and proactive with the current trends is crucial for the generation looking to pursue law and the legal professionals alike. It enables to better serve their clients, adapt to changes in the legal landscape, and stay ahead in an increasingly technology-driven world. In today’s digital age, candidates with tech-savvy skills and knowledge are prioritized.
You’ve had a diverse journey, from legal counsel to now being the Deputy Director of Administration at RV University. Managing a team of 50 members and overseeing various departments is undoubtedly challenging. Please tell us about your journey.
This question seems to be the most asked for me. I started out with legal practice, then to couple of in-house roles in leading MNCs, further in public policy consulting for law makers and finally as of today, in university administration. From the law school days to now, I have found exploring diverse career avenues intriguing and one must feel free to do so. I’m grateful that my law qualification has helped me sail through without any hindrance. There is so much to do in multiple fields and each industry has its own essence which is worth experiencing. In terms of team management, creating responsibility and ownership at each level of team structure ensures effective task dispensation. I would say, managing mindsets of 50/100 odd teammates is the key.
You’ve seamlessly transitioned from a Legal Counsel to University Administration. How do you think your legal background influences your approach to running a university, and have you ever found yourself wanting to bring a gavel to a staff meeting?
Every day at office, I involuntarily end up reasoning the decisions I take from the legal lens. This is most definitely because of my legal training. The policies I make, interactions I have with vendors, collaborations with industry folks etc. are all tied to test of “whether it is legally justifiable or not”. Additionally, it is always fun to bring your colleagues up to speed with the law and to see their startling faces.
As someone deeply involved in non-teaching operations, including infrastructure upkeep and ERP implementation, you wear many hats. Can you share a behind-the-scenes moment or a challenge you faced in ensuring a smooth digitization process for the university?
The National Education Policy of 2020 and UGC’s ODL and OL Regulations of 2020 have emphasized on the fact that varsities shall strive towards automation in their administrative processes and on curriculum delivery while maintaining a world class standard. Implementation of digitization efforts are mostly affected by reluctant acceptance by the end user. Albeit, investment concerns and supporting IT infrastructure remain, the most pressing issue would be the speculative approach to use digitized tools at a varsity. Constant IEC (Information, Education and Communication) efforts coupled with incentives for optimum usage would go a long way towards successful implementation.
You’ve been a part of the legal departments at HSBC Bank and Ennar Fin-Tech before transitioning to higher education administration. How did your experiences in corporate law shape your approach to managing the non-teaching operations of RV University?
A University is also a body corporate emanating from an independent statute or from deemed status of the UGC Act of 1956 having its own legal existence. Statutory bodies such as Academic Council, Senate, Board of Management etc. help administer a University and under its common seal university enters into multifarious contracts usually through its Registrar or an authorised representative. Therefore, whether it is policy preparation, drafting commercial contracts, negotiations, handling legal suits and importantly Internal Quality Assurance as per the norms of National Assessment and Accreditation Council require knowledge of the corporate law broadly.
Beyond your professional accomplishments, we’re curious about your interests outside of work. What’s a hobby or activity you engage in to unwind and recharge when you’re not immersed in the world of education and administration?
I take immense pleasure in savoring cuisines across the country and abroad while travelling. I like to remain active and choose to mostly to go on hikes on the weekend. Catching up with latest current affairs in order to stay up to date is a habit of mine since law school days.
You were a key contributor to Bosch’s BRIDGE program. If you could build a bridge connecting two areas of your life or interests, what would they be, and why do they need a connection?
I believe that there exists a symbiotic bridge between your personal life and professional life. If the former is malfunctioning, the later tends to get strained. Therefore, knowing one’s limitation and drawing respectable boundaries between these two facets is instrumental. Health is a luxury, youngsters need to ensure that they are physically and mentally intact in order to take on everyday challenges.
You’ve studied under the guidance of some influential figures. If you could have dinner with one of your mentors from your legal or academic days, who would it be, and what’s the first question you’d ask them?
I have had the good fortune of working with a senior Member of Parliament, learned Advocates, corporate leaders in the legal industry. The one experience which stuck on with me was when I discharged my duties as the youngest Registrar for a State Private University in Andhra Pradesh. The Chairman of that University (1985 batch IAS officer) and my mentor Sh Bharat Lal Meena’s influence on me has been immense. To put it in fewer words, I learnt to be fearless when daunting challenges stand against you in the administration realm. I would like to ask him despite being a celebrated bureaucrat in the state of Karnataka with over three decades of rich experience in public administration, what keeps him going every day and what’s the secret of his abundant energy.
What’s one thing about you that your colleagues might find surprising or intriguing? What is one piece of advice you’d give to our readers, who are looking for a career in the same profession?
People around find it surprising that a youngster is in the position once held or in position I’m in. I find it surprising too. Without going into the debate of age versus experience, I would say if I’m chosen to be in a role, I’m sure the fitness required for assumption of such role is the first thing that would be assessed and I would have passed it. For young lawyers and readers looking to transition, I would convey that always push yourself towards exploration and trust me it will be fun and worthwhile. Choose to do and be different.
Sir, please tell us about your journey and how you ended up pursuing a career in law? What inspired you to choose this path?
I was working after I completed my graduation in Economics and I felt the need to study further. At that point, an MBA seemed like it would require many more years of work experience, so I decided to look into becoming a lawyer. The idea of law school aligned with my idea of writing, researching and discussing laws and policies – all of which were activities I enjoyed.
With your combined academic and working experience in legal counseling within various business environments, what have been the most valuable lessons you’ve learned along the way?
I think I have learned what kind of mentor to be and what not to be. I have had bad bosses, and some very good ones. Therefore, I know what not to do. On the technical front, I have learned how to redline and draft agreements which is a skill we have to keep getting better at as we progress in our career.
In your previous roles, you have been involved in regulatory compliance, risk anticipation and management, as well as contract review. Could you share some examples of challenges you faced in these areas and how you successfully navigated them?
Initially I found some of these agreements daunting and confusing to say the least. But with the right levels of practice, and some help from other colleagues and mentors, the process of reading an Agreement became more easier for me. I recommend having a checklist or some flow of standard steps so you don’t end up missing out on the fine print!
You have been responsible for overseeing vendor management for new contracts, contractual work, litigation, and licensing. Could you discuss a project or initiative where you implemented a vendor management process that had a significant impact on the organization?
In my previous role, I built out a vendor management policy that was adopted by the organization. This was an opportunity for me to understand the pain points of different stakeholders and work with them in creating a policy that reflected their concerns. Eventually this was created into an updated version as well and impacted the business in a big way.
Throughout your career, you have demonstrated strong analytical and critical thinking skills. Can you share an example of a complex legal problem you encountered and how you approached its resolution?
I remember negotiating in a conference room over a force majeure clause and whether the pandemic was still foreseeable or unforeseen. I just tried to understand the other party’s perspective and my approach was to come to a gradual resolution with a more give and take mentality as we went along with the contract negotiation.
Communication is a vital skill for any legal professional. How have you utilized your oral and written communication skills to effectively collaborate with colleagues, clients, and stakeholders?
This is something we have to keep working on. Whether it is emails, or even speaking to clients and stakeholders on the phone – we are always communicating. I try to keep my emails short and my tone to be friendly or business casual for the most part. I typically find that if you are not able to deliver, sending a holding email can be an effective way to buy some time and not disappoint.
Lastly, based on your extensive experience, what advice would you give to fresh graduates who are just starting their careers in the legal field? What key skills or mindset should they focus on developing to succeed in this profession?
Be ruthless. Take feedback seriously, but never to heart. Also it only reflects how you were at that particular point in time and never a reflection on your future opportunities or ability. Everything can be taught and learned – no body is born with the ability to decode legislation or draft agreements. Similar to driving, we all are learners and keep practicing our craft to be so in the “practice” of law.
Please tell us about your journey and how you ended up pursuing a career in law?
I am a classic example of the profession finding a person rather than a person actively seeking it out. In 1996, I found myself enrolling at ILS Law College in Pune, not because I had a deep understanding of the legal field or a predetermined plan, but simply because my elder sister was studying law. Little did I know that this seemingly serendipitous decision would set the stage for a remarkable journey.
It was on the first day of my professional life, while working at Hindustan Lever (now Hindustan Unilever), that I experienced a moment of clarity. A senior colleague posed a legal question to me, and as I drew upon my foundational knowledge and connected the dots to provide a meaningful answer, I felt a surge of excitement. It was in that moment that I discovered the exhilaration of applying legal theory to real-world situations.
Since that interesting moment, my journey as a lawyer has been a whirlwind of excitement and fulfilment. Each day presents new challenges, intriguing legal matters, and the opportunity to make a positive impact on the lives of others. Guiding individuals through complex legal cases and providing advisory services has allowed me to contribute to their well-being and shape their future.
Not only that, but I’ve also had the opportunity to shape corporate decision-making, influence individual choices, and even participate in national-level policymaking. Being able to play a role in these important spheres has been truly rewarding.
Reflecting on my journey, I carry a unique perspective as someone who ventured into this field without familial connections or a predetermined path. This perspective, shaped by my experiences, adds a fresh and diverse outlook to my approach as a lawyer.
You have an impressive educational background, including a Bachelor of Civil Law from the University of Oxford. How did this experience shape your career and expertise in the field of law?
My experience studying at Oxford was a transformative journey that taught me important life lessons. When it comes to pursuing education at premier institutions like Oxford, discipline becomes a cornerstone. You’ll find yourself balancing coursework, social activities, extracurriculars, and taking care of your well-being all at once. It may seem overwhelming, but remember, these aspects are interconnected. Embrace the challenge and learn to manage your time effectively. Pay attention to every detail, develop a keen eye, and engage actively in class discussions. This discipline will serve you well beyond your academic pursuits.
Another crucial quality to cultivate is perseverance. The courses, especially the rigorous BCL program, demand unwavering commitment. It’s easy to feel overwhelmed but keep pushing forward. Develop a resilient attitude and maintain a strong sense of determination. Remember, progress requires persistence. The ability to persevere through difficult times will not only benefit your academic journey but also prove invaluable in your future endeavours.
Studying at esteemed institutions like Oxford goes beyond academic knowledge. It fosters adaptability, a skill that will serve you in any profession or sphere of life. You’ll gain a broader understanding of the world and its inner workings, expanding your perspectives and enhancing your problem-solving abilities.
While some may be enticed by tangible benefits such as placements at prestigious law firms, it’s essential to stay true to your aspirations. If your goal, like mine, is to litigate at a specific court, prioritize your path accordingly. Focus on developing the discipline to handle complex cases, irrespective of their scale, and pay meticulous attention to detail. This dedication will build the foundation for a successful and impactful career.
Finally, cherish the opportunities to learn from renowned experts. I was fortunate enough to study competition law under a world-renowned master. The knowledge I gained at Oxford empowered me to apply my skills to real-world cases in the field of competition law. Embrace such opportunities, as they can truly shape your professional trajectory.
Remember, the journey of studying at a premier institution like Oxford offers far more than academic excellence. It imparts essential qualities such as discipline, perseverance, adaptability, and a global perspective. Embrace these qualities, remain true to your aspirations, and seize every opportunity for growth and impact.
As an Advocate on Record at the Supreme Court of India, could you share some insights into the nature of your work and the responsibilities that come with this position?
When assuming the role of an Advocate on Record (AOR) at the Supreme Court, it is crucial to understand the immense responsibility that accompanies it. As an AOR, one must develop strong shoulders to bear this weight of responsibility. Simultaneously, this role helps in advancing one’s legal practice and opens up various opportunities for professional growth and recognition. By shouldering this weight of responsibility, AORs can expand their horizons, gain access to challenging cases, and establish themselves as reputable advocates in the legal fraternity.
One of the primary responsibilities is drafting meticulous pleadings to be filed before the Supreme Court. It is essential to ensure fairness in practice, both towards opposing AORs and counsel, as well as towards the Court and the Registry. Care must be taken not to sign any Special Leave Petition (SLP) or other proceedings in a careless manner. Thorough research of the law is necessary, along with the duty to assist the Court in shaping and developing legal principles. It is important to distil the facts from lower courts and present them clearly and concisely in the pleadings. Remember, written advocacy is just as crucial as oral arguments.
Being an AOR requires long hours of dedicated work. One must have a deep understanding of the facts and present them before the court in a concise manner. It’s important to note that courts usually rely on what is presented before them, whether it is spoken or in writing. Losing the confidence of the court is something every professional wants to avoid.
In simple terms, an AOR is the master of their clients’ cases before the Supreme Court. In situations where the engaged counsel may face difficulties, the AOR must be fully prepared to continue with the matter. Being an AOR is not solely about signing and filing the Vakalatnama, but instead taking full ownership and responsibility for the cases at hand.
With over 22 years of experience in corporate and commercial laws, energy law, infrastructure, and more, what are some of the most interesting cases or projects you have worked on throughout your career?
Over the years I’ve learned that every case is interesting and carries significant importance for the client, regardless of its size or the client’s profile. However, here are some of the many immemorable cases I fought.
Imagine being entrusted with a case early in your career where a client was accused of stealing highly confidential information from their employer. The stakes were sky-high, with damages claimed at a staggering Rs. 1,200 Crores. It was like diving into an intense legal thriller, crafting a compelling defence strategy, and manoeuvring through the twists and turns of the legal battlefield. Witnessing our strategy unfold successfully and delivering a resounding victory was an exhilarating experience.
In another captivating case, I found myself challenging the dominance of a corporate giant, Coal India. The case involved allegations of abuse of power, and the monetary implications were substantial. It was like stepping into the shoes of a legal protagonist, meticulously preparing our arguments, and presenting our case before the Competition Commission of India. I am happy to say that we secured a favourable order.
But it’s not just about the big cases with large financial stakes. Some of the most fascinating moments in my career have emerged from seemingly modest matters. I vividly recall representing a co-generation power producer, fighting to establish fair tariffs, and navigating the complex regulatory landscape. This journey opened my eyes to the intricate technicalities of the power industry and led to a landmark decision that not only shaped policy but also brought about a tangible positive change.
There have been heart-touching encounters in the courtroom where I’ve stood up for ship crews abandoned by their owners. These were stories of resilience and compassion, as we fought to secure their rights and bring them back home. The feeling of making a difference in their lives was immeasurable, and it reminded me of the power of the law to protect the vulnerable.
These anecdotes provide a glimpse into the exciting world of the legal profession, where every case is a story waiting to unfold. I believe in combining my legal expertise with a deep sense of empathy and determination to seek justice.
You have extensive experience in international Arbitrations. Can you provide some examples of the types of arbitration cases you have been involved in, particularly in the areas of EPC projects, energy projects, and shipping?
Here are some examples of the types of arbitration cases I have been involved in, particularly in the areas of EPC projects, energy projects, and shipping:
I have represented clients in an arbitration case before the Singapore International Arbitration Centre (SIAC) involving a claim related to the design of an engineering product. The dispute centred around issues of design defects, performance, and contractual obligations.
In a domestic arbitration matter, I handled a case concerning a power plant construction project. The dispute revolved around delays in the project, resulting in significant damages. My role involved analysing project management issues, contract interpretation, and assessing damages for the delayed completion.
I have been involved in several domestic commercial recovery arbitrations. These cases typically involved disputes between commercial entities seeking to recover financial losses or damages due to breaches of contract, non-payment, or other contractual disputes.
One of the cases I worked on involved the construction of a crane, where issues of alleged design flaws and delays were at the forefront. I focused on establishing liability for the delay damages and quantifying the losses suffered by the client.
In another arbitration case, I handled delays and damages in an HVAC (Heating, Ventilation, and Air Conditioning) project. This dispute required a thorough analysis of project scheduling, performance issues, and assessing damages resulting from the delays.
I also handled an arbitration case related to an EPC project involving the design and construction of a road tunnel and highway. The dispute centred around design issues and delays, and my role involved establishing liability for the delays and quantifying the resulting damages.
In the shipping industry, I represented clients in arbitration matters, including a case involving a dispute regarding the rescue of a crew at sea. This case required an understanding of maritime law, contractual obligations, and assessing damages for the rescue operation.
I have been involved in multiple tariff and regulatory issues concerning power projects, including those involving different sources and capacities. These cases have encompassed a range of issues, such as contract disputes, performance evaluation, and assessing damages in relation to power generation and distribution.
Additionally, I have handled arbitration matters involving disputes related to confidential information. These cases involved protecting sensitive information, analysing confidentiality agreements, and resolving disputes arising from the unauthorized disclosure or misuse of confidential data.
In addition to your legal practice, you have also served as a former Standing Counsel for the State of Uttar Pradesh to the Supreme Court of India and a Law Officer at Hindustan Unilever Limited. How have these roles contributed to your overall professional growth and expertise?
Throughout my professional journey, I have had the privilege of serving in two distinct roles that have significantly contributed to my overall growth and expertise. Firstly, as a Law Officer at Hindustan Unilever Limited (HUL), I had the unique opportunity to learn how to balance the legal requirements of the business with its commercial needs. In this role, I got the opportunity to be involved in conducting legal research, supporting compliance efforts, being in the field with business functions to understand how the company’s business is conducted, being involved in court cases, and assisting in contract review and drafting.
Working with the government and representing it before the Supreme Court of India was another invaluable experience. This role provided me with the platform to present the government’s perspective in court and advocate for its policies. It gave me the chance to dispel misconceptions and demonstrate that the government is not solely focused on wrongdoing but rather strives for the welfare of its citizens. In this role, I was involved in a diverse range of cases, covering a wide spectrum of legal areas. From matters related to irrigation policy, bail applications, and shareholding issues of government enterprises, to constitutional validity challenges against regulations and policies, I gained exposure to a myriad of legal scenarios.
These experiences have instilled in me an important attitude that one cannot afford to be overly technical while advising clients. As lawyers, we must always consider the practical aspects and implications of our legal counsel. Both my roles taught me the significance of understanding the business and governmental context in which legal advice is sought. By bridging the gap between theoretical legal knowledge and real-world applications, I was able to provide comprehensive and practical guidance to my clients.
These roles have allowed me to develop a well-rounded skill set, encompassing a balance between legal considerations and commercial realities, as well as a deep understanding of governmental policies and their implications. I am confident that the diverse range of cases and the holistic approach I have cultivated will continue to contribute significantly to my future endeavours in the legal profession.
Considering your diverse areas of expertise, what advice would you give to aspiring lawyers who are interested in specializing in areas such as arbitration, energy law, or competition law?
If you’re a budding lawyer with a keen interest in specializing in areas like arbitration, energy law, or competition law, here’s some valuable advice for you. Instead of locking yourself into a specific specialization early on, give yourself room to explore different areas of law. Take up diverse opportunities and get a taste of various practice areas. This will give you a broader understanding of the legal world and help you figure out what truly grabs your attention. Keeping an open mind during this exploration phase will allow you to make a well-informed decision when the time comes to choose your specialization.
While theoretical knowledge is important, lack of practical experience is the real deal-breaker. It’s not just about what you learn in textbooks or lectures; it’s about getting your hands dirty in the real world of law. Seek out internships, clerkships, or part-time positions that allow you to roll up your sleeves and immerse yourself in the practical aspects of arbitration, energy law, or competition law. By diving into real-world cases and projects, you’ll gain first-hand experience and discover whether these specialized areas truly resonate with you.
When it comes to choosing your specialization, trust your gut and follow your passion. Think about the areas of law that excite you the most. Consider the kind of impact you want to make and the issues that genuinely ignite your curiosity. Whether it’s fighting for fair resolutions through arbitration, delving into the complexities of energy law, or ensuring a level playing field in the marketplace, pick a specialization that aligns with your authentic interests and values.
Remember, every field of law has its own unique opportunities and challenges. By exploring different practice areas, gaining practical experience, and staying true to your passions, you’ll be well-prepared to make an informed decision about specializing in any field.
In your opinion, what are some of the key challenges that the legal profession faces today, and how can young lawyers navigate these challenges effectively?
One of the significant challenges that young lawyers and even experienced lawyers often face is the collection of fees for their legal services. This issue can have a profound impact on their professional and personal lives. However, they are generally discussed behind closed doors due to the attached stigma. Fee collection can be a complex and time-consuming process, leading to financial strain and affecting their mental well-being.
Many lawyers find themselves grappling with the task of chasing down payments from clients. This can involve spending valuable time and resources in follow-ups and negotiations, which can be frustrating and demanding. Furthermore, some clients may be reluctant or unable to pay, resulting in additional complications and financial instability for the lawyer.
In fact, understanding the importance of addressing this challenge, I have taken the initiative to create awareness and find solutions for effective fee collection. I have started a campaign or movement that aims to shed light on the significance of timely and transparent fee collection in the legal profession. By fostering open discussions and providing a platform for fellow professionals to share their experiences and concerns, we strive to create a supportive environment within the legal community.
Another significant challenge is the misconception that a deep understanding of the law alone is sufficient for being a successful lawyer. While legal knowledge is essential, practical advocacy skills require a blend of psychological intelligence, creativity, and real-world experience. Many young lawyers are initially shocked by the harsh practical reality, which may lead to feelings of dejection. However, it is crucial for them to embrace these challenges as opportunities for growth, understanding that trial and error is a valuable part of the learning process. Letting go of the mentality of striving for perfection or the typical topper syndrome is essential. Young lawyers should focus on continuous improvement and be willing to learn from their experiences.
With the constantly evolving legal landscape, particularly in areas such as data protection laws and competition law, how do you stay updated with the latest developments and ensure that your expertise remains relevant?
When it comes to staying updated with the constantly evolving legal landscape, in any field I believe the following helps:
Stay informed through extensive reading: Develop a habit of reading extensively, including legal journals, blogs, and other relevant resources. The more you read, the better equipped you’ll be to understand the latest developments and gain valuable insights.
Engage in discussions: Seek opportunities to engage with like-minded individuals. Participate in discussions with such people. Never shy away from clearing doubts and seeking clarification from experienced professionals in the field. Engaging in discussions and networking with like-minded individuals will further enhance your understanding and broaden your perspective.
Embrace continuous learning: Treat learning as an ongoing process. Attend conferences, seminars, and workshops to learn from industry leaders and gain insights into emerging trends, case studies, and practical applications.
Harness online resources: Take advantage of the digital world. Explore online legal databases, research portals, and reputable websites that provide real-time updates and relevant insights. These resources are easily accessible and can provide you with a wealth of information to stay current.
Finally, looking back at your successful career, what are some of the personal values or principles that have guided you along the way, and how have they influenced your approach to practicing law?
When reflecting on my fulfilling career, I attribute much of it to the personal values and principles that have guided me along the way. These principles have shaped my approach to practicing law, and I believe they can be beneficial to aspiring lawyers as well.
First and foremost, I have always embraced the power of grit and a strong work ethic. These qualities have been the driving force behind my actions, allowing me to overcome challenges and persevere in the face of adversity. As a first-generation lawyer, I learned early on the importance of hard work and determination in carving my own path.
Integrity is another principle that has been central to my practice. I firmly believe in keeping my integrity on track, as it serves as the foundation for trust and credibility. Integrity; like salt, may not always be noticed when it is present, but its absence will undoubtedly be discussed. By upholding the highest ethical standards, I have built lasting relationships with clients and colleagues based on trust and respect.
Persistence and self-belief have also played a significant role in my journey. There have been moments when the results of my efforts were not immediately evident. But by maintaining persistence and a thirst for self-improvement, we can achieve remarkable growth and reach new heights.
Believing in oneself and having confidence is key to thriving in the legal profession. While external validation may offer a temporary boost, true success comes from within. Treating each matter with due diligence, regardless of its size, and keeping the clients’ best interests in mind have been guiding principles for me. Recognizing the impact of a case on the lives of those involved allows me to approach each situation with the necessary care and dedication.
As a first-generation lawyer, I have learned to view competition as an opportunity for growth rather than a threat. I have studied the positive attributes of talented individuals in my field and used them as inspiration to enhance my skills. I firmly believe that there is always room at the top of the pyramid for those who dare to dream big. Breaking through glass ceilings and challenging perceived limitations is not only possible but necessary for personal and professional advancement.
As you embark on your own journey in the legal profession, particularly as a first-generation lawyer, my advice to you is to embrace these principles. Let grit, integrity, persistence, self-belief, and a healthy approach to competition guide your path. And remember, as a first-generation lawyer, you possess a unique perspective and strength that can drive you to excel. By incorporating these values into your practice, you will not only achieve success, but you will also make a lasting impact in the lives of your clients and contribute to the advancement of the legal field.
Was pursuing law planned for you or it all happened in a flow? Kindly share with our readers.
I always wanted to do something different. Back in 2010, law was yet to be popular choice. I made a conscious decision to pursue law while most of my batchmates were preparing for IIT-JEE or the AIPMT. I was completely ignorant of the career prospects neither did I have anyone to speak to. The decision was indeed laden with risks, but it was worth it.
How has been your experience thus far dealing with critical arbitration matters, and how do you address this area to young minds in the legal profession?
As rightly said, most of the arbitrations that we work on are fact-heavy and high stake. So, there is no scope for any mistake. Significant time goes into understanding the technicalities, strategizing and executing. Each step has to be handled with utmost precision. While the entire process is often strenuous, the challenges are extremely enriching and wholesome.
There is sufficient scope for arbitration in India and the law is constantly evolving. I also witness a lot of interest for arbitration amongst the younger lawyers and even students. However, familiarity with the basic concepts is often lacking.
What is your take on the scope of technology-related litigation in India?
Technology-related litigations are expected to surge in India with the introduction of Metaverse, NFTs, cryptocurrency etc.and changes totechnology laws (such as IntermediaryGuidelines and Digital Media Ethics Code Rules, 2021).
We are already experiencing a plethora of issues – ranging from regulatory concerns to privacy/data breach and money-laundering. Further, alleged cases of cyber-attacks, online frauds, impersonation, phishing, online defamation, hate speeches etc. have been on a high.
Lately we have been hearing there are a lot of challenges for women in litigation, be it late working hours or other issues, how do you deal with them? And what would be the same?
Challenges have always been there. Of late, the discussions surrounding these challenges have begun, which is a good start. Litigation is often perceived as a “men’s club” and it becomes difficult to pierce the stereotypes.
In several cases women have been forced to or gaslit into completely giving up litigation or making changes to their careers. Reasons are manifold. In certain cases, the compensation is meagre; thus, women are convinced into giving up litigation and be told – “It’s not worth it”. Late working hours and the frequent need to travel are also common reasons. Till date, there are courts which do not have proper toilets for women.
The unequal representation is even more prominent in courts in smaller towns and districts. In one of my outstation hearings, I had noticed the entire court complex just had two women on that day – the judge and myself.
I have consistently made efforts to do everything that is expected of a lawyer – to avoid any possibility of being the less preferred one. Be it travelling or working late or appearing in Court. With the able support of my seniors, several barriers have been broken. But there’s a long way to go.
What are the practices you implement to follow privacy in different legal matters or transactions and how the young generation should prioritize it further in their own careers?
Given that I work in a technology-driven law firm, there are advance high security systems in place to take care of privacy concerns within the firm. Even the interns are required to enter into non-disclosure agreements to prevent any situation of privacy breach.
As lawyers, it is our foremost duty to protect client documents and information from undue disclosure and understand the importance of client-attorney privilege. Young lawyers should be educated of the same. To start with, law schools should emphasise on these aspects as a part of the curriculum (Law of Evidence and/or Professional Ethics).
Above all, the younger generation must careful of the content they share on LinkedIn or other social media platforms.
Was there any roadmap that helped you thus far in your journey, or any mentor that supported you from the very beginning, please share how was it for you?
I have had the privilege of receiving unconditional support from my parents throughout my journey. I have also enjoyed the rare privilege of consistent support and encouragement from my seniors at work. While each one of us has the potential to succeed, it is this kind of support which helps in moving ahead. Further, I strongly believe in being genuine and honest to myself and my work.
I wouldn’t say it is a perfect world but these factors have helped me survive.
Could you highlight some of your success habits that enable you to meet your goal?
Most of my lessons are from my own mistakes. I believe, we learn best from our own mistakes. They make us think and hunt for better solutions. That’s what experience is to me.
I prioritise a healthy lifestyle. Thus, I plan each day in advance. This includes balancing my professional and personal lives and keeping them separate.
Lastly, what advice would you give to someone starting out?
There are certain basics for which there are no substitutes – work hard, think smart and be ethical.
But there is no generic advice which would be applicable to all freshers out there. The legal profession is generally very demanding, so plan each day well.
“Experience and live through your own journey and lessons. Do not compare yourself with others but compare yourself with your old self – if you’re a better person and a better lawyer than you were earlier.”
What motivated you to take law as a career and how has been the decision so far?
Law was appealing at the level of ideas when I was young. In law school, like at NUJS, said ideas tend to get affirmed (absent extraordinary circumstances). For those of us who didn’t grow up with lawyers in the family, some self-selection invariably occurs. Since law wasn’t part of the Indian board curriculum in my time, certain proxies, such as affinities for logic, language, argument, etc., informed the decision-making process. I’m not sure if these proxies are useful, let alone representative, but we do rely on them disproportionately at that stage of life, given informational and experiential scarcity.
It’s been a pretty good journey so far. I’ve lucked out over time with regard to being able to dabble variously, and I enjoy diverse aspects and manifestations of the law. I look forward to more learning.
Your internship experiences are filled with renowned firms and other reputed people, was there any roadmap for the same or all did was in flow? How would you guide students in choosing internships?
I suppose these things are part of an organic trajectory, perhaps steered by a latent sense of purpose. Things do happen in a flow, but we ultimately end up navigating viable paths. Curiosity helps. I see students these days choose internships based on niche interests and very specific practice areas. I admire such clarity, especially at that young an age. While it’s difficult to know yourself completely in law school, elimination is useful. However, I still think that sampling from a large spread is a good idea before marrying into the unknown.
Could you shed some light on your journey in the topmost university, Fletcher? I’d love to know the flashbacks.
Fletcher was a cherished destination. Even when I first joined S&R Associates (where I currently work), I had an idea that I might want to explore a specialization later, preferably in a different country. I liked Fletcher because of many things, but most of all for the flexibility and eclectic environment that it offered. The crowd is truly diverse and international, and my ways of looking at the world changed fundamentally when I came out.
The best memories are perhaps the simplest ones, the quiet neighbourhood, the bucolic surroundings, the redbrick buildings, hours spent inside the ‘Harry Potter Room’, trudging to Harvard amidst the first snow of winter, and endless cups of coffee with friends. Add to that, the opportunity to genuinely engage with people from various walks of life, from various parts of the world, from contexts wildly different from yours: that kind of exposure is irreplaceable.
Deborshi, among all the specialisations, i.e., in MALD, LLM, and Ph.D. Fletcher’s programme, what do you find the most interesting to you? How far did you use all this expertise in your practical areas of work?
I liked the Master of Arts in Law & Diplomacy (MALD) program because it gave me the chance to keep law as a base and build on that substratum by adding disciplinary layers to it, including those involving public policy, political economy, international relations, comparative politics, global history, research methods, national security, foreign policy, international organizations, transnational business, and others. The MALD remains Fletcher’s keystone graduate program, and for good reason.
Also, it’s a 2-year program, as opposed to the 1-year LLM. I’d heard from others before me that a year’s duration often feels too short from a learning perspective, and I wanted a more immersive experience.
I received two awards as a student under the MALD program: the William L. Blue and Joan R. Blue Scholarship, and the Alfred P. Rubin Prize – awarded by the Fletcher law faculty to the ‘outstanding student of international law’ in a given year. Other than my core specializations at Fletcher, I also cross-registered with the Harvard Law School (HLS) for a semester-long seminar on law and politics.
Accordingly, I decided to apply for the LLM thereafter. The LLM is a distinctly curated program, comprising smaller cohorts, a very close-knit community, regular exchanges with faculty and peers, periodic events and updates, and some amazing international law professors.
The career trips to New York and DC pivot away to interactions with partners from global law firms, rather than with policy thinktanks and international organizations alone, such as in the MALD. For instance, Prof. John Burgess, then partner of WilmerHale, was the Director of the LLM program during my stint there.
His insights on international M&A and cross-border financial intricacies were deeply valuable. At the same time, cross-listed faculty like Profs. Jeswald Salacuse and Ian Johnstone brought with them multi-disciplinary perspectives on investment law, arbitration, the UN, the World Bank, along with constructivist approaches and sociological constructions of the law.
The PhD, of course, is a very different animal. It’s a self-driven process, especially after you finish your coursework, clear the comprehensive exams, and defend your proposal. That’s when the real research begins, and it’s easy to get lost en route. Besides, life happens. Managing things and people in the course of the PhD – which, in a US curricular perspective, remains an immensely trying, albeit templated, process with several discrete milestones – is one of the bigger challenges.
Going through your background information, it seems you’re always up for learning something new. Even though you worked independently in the Calcutta High Court, after obtaining MALD and LLM degrees, you indulged yourself in teaching a self-designed elective course in “Law and Public Policy.” So, Deborshi, was that challenging or thrilling for you, and how?
Being from NUJS myself, I wanted to offer a course there. This was before my PhD coursework began. However, by that time I’d already decided to adopt a more ‘law and policy’ approach to work. That way, offering such a course at NUJS was a culmination of many things, including my interest in weaving together miscellaneous disciplinary paradigms into mainstream legal analysis.
How about your experience with Harvard LIDS, Boston, and working with ? What do you think is the most exciting part you would like to share with our readers regarding the same?
From the perspective of personal evolution, these stints were hugely significant, where I wanted to push myself to try new things, especially in the context of applying my learning to situations on the ground. For instance, ‘law and development’ was one of my main focus areas. Working with the Law and International Development Society (LIDS) at Harvard thus provided a great opportunity in respect of putting to use some of the theoretical constructs I’d learnt across real-life problems and circumstances. We worked with the secretariat of Transparency International about the possibility of reparations for victims of ‘grand corruption’ in international criminal proceedings.
Further, ‘international negotiation, mediation, and conflict resolution’ was one of my other specializations. I was taking a course on mediation with Prof. Eileen Babbitt. Around this time, I joined MWI, a company in Boston working in the ADR space, specializing in dispute resolution for companies through ombudsman, negotiation, consulting, arbitration, facilitation, and mediation services. I worked with instructors at the Harvard Negotiation Project of HLS, learning from their experience of negotiating with Fortune 500 clients and vendors. As part of my training, I mediated a few cases in Massachusetts district courts as well, particularly in south Boston.
Similarly, I was working with Prof. John Cerone on matters of international criminal law and humanitarian law, which culminated in representing Fletcher for the Model International Criminal Court Moot held at Krzyżowa, Poland; serving as editor for the Journal of Humanitarian Assistance; and joining the Fletcher Human Rights Practicum, pursuant to which a small group of us had the opportunity to collaborate on drafting amicus briefs for the Committee on the Elimination of Discrimination against Women (CEDAW), a body of independent experts that monitors implementation of the corresponding treaty.
This last experience came in handy because I’d already been working as Supervising Lawyer with Femin Ijtihad – Strategic Advocacy of Human Rights (SAHR) – a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization. Accordingly, I continued working with SAHR until 2017 as its Global Legal Counsel using lessons from such experiences.
As Global Legal Counsel at SAHR, I developed best practices and drafted model laws for the purpose of legislative reform, designed judges’ and lawyers’ training workshops, and advised individuals, organizations, and local lawyers/judges in various jurisdictions, including in the US, Afghanistan, Iraq, and Nigeria.
Later, during the formative stages of my PhD, when I first got interested in the legitimacy of dispute resolution, I worked with my advisor, Prof. Salacuse – an ICSID-empanelled arbitrator and a leading expert on negotiation theory – with the Judicial Leadership Project conducted by the National Center for State Courts at the Harvard Kennedy School of Government.
I also taught a lot during this stage and worked on several consultancy, research, and training assignments, including in terms of: taking foundational classes on International Law for undergraduate students of the Political Science Department at Tufts University; teaching introductory courses on American Politics, Sociology of Race & Ethnicity, and Globalization & Social Change under the School of Arts and Sciences at Tufts University; updating Prof. Salacuse’s book on “The Law of Investment Treaties” (3rd edition) for Oxford University Press and another book on “International Business Planning: Law & Taxation (U.S.)”; coordinating and teaching a course called “Debates in Economic and Political Relations” conducted by the Horizon Academic Research Program, New York for exchange students from mainland China; and serving as coordinating instructor for the Tavitian Scholars Program in Public Policy – conducted by Fletcher for diplomats and officials from the Foreign Service of the Government of Armenia.
So far we’ve seen lawyers not focusing on their mental health because of work pressure and tight deadlines. Please shed some light on this issue, any tips that can make the situation better?
We develop our own coping mechanisms over time. If there is meaningful work to be done, there will be appurtenant pressures and timelines within which one needs to deliver. I can’t speak for others, but I like to treat work as an extension of self. Accordingly, it’s very important to me that I enjoy the work that I’m doing, to be really invested in it. When that happens, I think a couple of things coincide: you end up being better at your job, and the pressure stops being a bother. In fact, the pressure might become a thrill in itself.
I’m deeply aware that mental health is an important issue for all professionals, including for lawyers. Modern-day work ends up creating high-pressure situations for everybody. We ourselves as clients and consumers in quotidian contexts demand fast, efficient service. It’s not so much fun, perhaps, when the boot is on the other foot.
Work-life balance is what everyone talks about, presumably as an ideal. I’m not big on that myself. I don’t mean that we should sacrifice life, or the pursuit of happiness, at the altar of work. But when work goes beyond a set of itemized chores, or when work means more than something one has to do out of a sense of compulsion or duty, it starts creating a balance of its own. Life gathers around work. Personally, I like that kind of life.
If, on the other hand, work starts feeling like a lot of work – an ordeal, a terrible burden, etc. – then maybe one needs to move things around. I realize that this view reeks of some kind of privilege that many are ill afford to harbour, on account of variegated factors ranging from family, finances, health, and sundry responsibilities. Having said that, I was diagnosed with Multiple Sclerosis (MS), an incurable and debilitating autoimmune disease, in 2006 when I was in my third year of law school. At that time, I had no idea what MS was, or what to expect from it over the long-term.
I remember thinking that it sounded pretty awful when the neurologist looked at my MRI and pronounced his verdict. Some other doctors suggested that I leave studies altogether and focus on maintaining my health, let alone maintain hopes of building a career, legal or otherwise. It’s been an interesting journey ever since, for sure. I’ve had incidents of relapse during internships at JSA and NDA. I’ve been tempted to give up many times, because simple things that others take for granted, or tasks that ‘normal’ people do on an everyday basis, get very difficult to complete at times. Since I have the relapsing-remitting kind of MS, there are good days and there are bad days, and some phases of relapse, along with a progressive accumulation of disability over time.
With that qualification, however, I know that I have been very lucky to have had the kind of support from family, friends, doctors, physiotherapists, gym instructors, peers, colleagues, bosses, and employers that allowed me to continue – be it at Tufts, Fletcher, AQUILAW – where I worked during my PhD, Jindal, or S&R.
We have to reach out for support when we need it. It sounds simple, but it’s very difficult to do. This realization itself goes a long way in taking care of oneself.
We have heard that most law schools don’t focus on practical skills, and the current demands as well, what are your thoughts on the same, and how law students and other professionals can upskill their game?
I was teaching at the Jindal Global Law School before re-joining S&R Associates as Counsel. I think that educational institutions (and the wider pedagogical culture that such institutions uphold) undergo some learning over time and adapt themselves to new dynamics, especially in order to remain competitive and relevant. Compared to my time as a student, law schools these days need to, and do, focus a lot more on practical skills, including actively seeking out legal practitioners to conduct sessions where stories from the trenches are shared to give students a better idea of how things work in the real world.
At least that’s what my first-hand takeaway was, from my 3-year stint at Jindal – where as an Associate Professor, I offered courses on contract law, investment law, M&A and PE, etc. I myself used case-studies and real-life examples to familiarize students with the commercial law aspects of the courses I taught. The idea was to provide a holistic and ‘practical’ learning experience for all students. The Bar Council of India, too, has introduced various new curricular requirements that focus on such practical skills in keeping with the times.
Lastly, any 5 best pieces of advice for our readers?
I honestly doubt that my ‘advice’ will find resonance across the board. Nevertheless, here goes:
1. Make plans. These are building blocks of your future.
2. Expect said plans to go awry. Bad things happen, none of us is special. Be prepared to improvise.
3. Keep an open mind, and keep learning. Staying relevant and curious is half the battle.
4. Stick to your strengths and build on them.
5. If possible, have fun meanwhile. Life is short. No point making it more painful than it needs to be.
