Super Lawyer

Tag: Luthra

  • Sudipta Routh, Partner, SAMVAD: Partners, on Mergers and Acquisitions, Banking and Finance, and Debt Capital Markets

    Sudipta Routh, Partner, SAMVAD: Partners, on Mergers and Acquisitions, Banking and Finance, and Debt Capital Markets

    Sudipta Routh graduated in law from NLS, Bangalore, in 1996. After successful stints at ICI India (now part of AkzoNobel NV) and Trilegal, he went on to pursue his Masters at Queen Mary, Univ. of London, batch of 2006. Since then, he has worked with Clifford Chance, Luthra and Luthra Law Offices, and founded Agram Legal Consultants. He is currently Partner at SAMVAD: Partners, where his role entails Mergers & Amalgamations, Foreign Investments & Joint Ventures, Cross-Border Banking and Finance, Trade Finance, Debt Capital Markets (Domestic and International), Corporate Advisory.

    In this interview we speak to him about:

    • His internships
    • His extensive experience at Tier-I firms
    • His current role at SAMVAD: Partners

    What motivated you to pursue a career in the legal field?

    As a science student I did the usual things science students did back then, many entrance exams. It helped that my CET scores were mostly non-reportable. I was surprised when I came in thirteenth in the NLS entrance test (no CLAT back then). My grandfather was a lawyer, but during colonial times. He passed away when I was quite young. My dad used to be in the army and a metallurgist.  He neither inspired me to take up law, nor was he inspired when I did. Very few (except the NLS faculty perhaps) had any inkling of the influence NLS would go on to have on legal education and the preeminent stature of the institution today.

     

    Can you share some memorable experiences from you time at NLSIU?

    Too hard to choose any one. Mr. Soli Sorabjee’s speeches, Chief Justice E. S. Venkataramiah classes (he taught Constitutional Law 1 and 2 immediately after retiring from the Supreme Court), Mr. Ram Jethmalani’s classes (he took a sabbatical to teach us Criminal Law for a month or more), Chief Justice Ahmadi (gave me my degree certificate), stirring speech by APJ Abdul Kalam at that time he was SA to RM. We had no idea we were interacting with the greatest president India would ever have. He signed a photograph for me, squatting on the floor, building a rocket – I keep this really carefully.  We were fortunate to have a lot of greatness rubbing off on us. Many of us were blissfully unaware though.  Sometimes, in hindsight, it was a little surreal too. Dr. Manmohan Singh (Chairman of UGC back then) had come by to inaugurate a hostel block. Two of my best buddies considered it their national duty to entertain him then and there. Of all things, they sang “Comfortably Numb” (quite badly, but it could’ve been the sound system). I can’t say Dr. Singh was comfortable (he clapped feebly), he certainly looked numb. He went on to become Finance Minister next month, the magic of 1991 happened, then prime minister, the rest is again history – you make what you will of that, but if I hope those two rock stars are not reading this!

    Amidst all this, there are those in the faculty who have dedicated more than a quarter century of their most productive years, who are still there now, and who still know each of us by our names and misdeeds. I am still living off that.

     

    Did you pursue activities such as moots, debates and internships in law school?

    The mooting standards were spectacular. Even before the first batch had graduated, NLS teams had already won international competitions. I mooted, but was thoroughly overawed. I focused on paths of lesser resistance, debates, quizzes, and other literary events. By my second year, NLS was dominating the “culfest” scene.  I was born for sports and athletics. M.P. Ganesh, India hockey legend, then director of Sports Authority of India (which is close to NLS campus), gave us full access to world class facilities. That was heaven.

    My internships were in the High Court (Bangalore), chambers of a senior counsel, a PSU bank, an NGO, law firms in Bangalore and Mumbai, and two multinational companies in Chennai and Pondicherry. These internships were invaluable. They gave me a job, and the chance of coping with life experiences (in Mumbai, I would always run out of cash in the very first week, from Pondicherry I could send money home if I wanted, which I didn’t eventually. By the end of the fourth year, I had a career plan (and several Plan Bs). By the end of the fifth year, I had three offers on campus (not without anxious moments). The internships had however already prepped me for whatever was to come.

     

    Would you say law school prepared you for the real world practice of law?

    The programme was superbly designed, even for the most indifferent student. The internship program was only one aspect. Other than the tough curriculum (two tests plus a project and a viva for each of the 60 subjects – none of which you could score below 50), we had a retinue of occasional / vocational teachers from every walk of life, academicians, industry captains, scientists, politicians, ministers, activists, sportsmen even, who taught us a life-lesson or two every now and then. NLS was conceived by brilliant educationalists, it also had the backing of the entire Judiciary, the Bar Council of India, the Karnataka Bar Council, the Bangalore University and the Government of Karnataka. The Chief Justice of India was the Chancellor. The Chairman, BCI, was the Chairman of the GC. I guess the odds were heavily against the “real world” when we stepped out.

     

    What are your areas of interest? How did you discover such fields and cultivate your knowledge of them?

    Intense focus in any one subject I owe to Professor Pillai (he continues to teach at NLS even today). His question papers were legendary. They were excruciating but hugely satisfying (i.e. if you passed) – at least eight to nine pages long and labyrinthine. They were invariably open book (the more you carried in, the worse your chances). He would set information dense scenarios (deviously misleading) which would require extremely quick analyses and a sort of synthetic application of competing principles. It was possible to come to diametrically opposite conclusions and be assured that both solutions were equally right. He provoked thought and demanded only the ability to solve problems – not swotting his notes or reeling off citations. So Corporate Laws and M&A was where it all began for me. I guess Prof. Pillai was really trying to inculcate method and application. He left the “imparting knowledge” part to you. Much later I would tackle a Masters, banking and finance, debt capital markets and restructuring, using only his approach.

     

    As an expert in Mergers and Acquisitions, Banking and Finance, and Debt capital markets, can you tell our readers a little about the subjects and the nature of work they demands?

    Maybe they all require different mind-sets. M&A perhaps requires a certain “structuring” knack based on comfortable ability with the corporate laws, exchange control, tax and some sector specific laws. Banking & Finance, less of “structuring” but far greater technical ability distilled from in-depth knowledge of market practices. Debt Capital Markets (especially the cross-border variety), a deeper regulatory awareness and conversational fluency with international market practices. Perhaps the common thread is really an ability to solve problems rapidly and deal with complexities even faster. Sometimes the spin-offs can be startling. When you are able to use a run-of-the-mill old hat technique in one practice area, add some bells and whistles, and push it out as as a “brilliant innovation” in another. This cross-pollination will make you stand out – you mustn’t give the game away then, pretend it’s an original brainwave, you are naturally quick witted like that, and in an everyday matter of fact way. Accept the applause graciously.

     

    What was your first job out of law school and how did you secure it? 

    ICI India Limited (now Akzo-Nobel).  ICI was looking for an entry level M&A and corporate lawyer. I had gone through two rounds without breaking a sweat (I had just interned with an MNC). My final interview was with my to-be “super-boss”, sharp eyed and intimidating. He immediately picked up on the word “treaties” in an obscure paper I had unfortunately mentioned in my CV – “Economic Analysis of Indian Double Taxation Treaties” (My wife-to-be, NLS senior batch, had made a “serious contribution”. I had speed read the Indo-Mauritian DTA though, some months ago).  He asked me how many “treaties” I had to analyse to write this “seminal, heavy duty paper”. I distinctly felt the rug slip. I blurted “all” (mostly by reflex) and looked surprised that he should even ask? That was it. He stopped his interrogation immediately. I saw a paternal smile which clearly said “You are hired!” Much later, I fessed up to him and my boss – I could hear the boss man laugh long and hard.

     

    What was your work profile at ICI Group? 

    ICI had just launched a take-over bid on Asian Paints. This was apparently the first bid under India’s first “takeover code”, freshly minted in 1994. I had two wonderful mentors – two bosses, one in Calcutta the other at Delhi. They gave me a free hand (but would always keep an eye, I didn’t know then). I ended up fronting 3 M&A deals all by myself (or so I thought back then) by my 3rd and 4th year at ICI. I left suddenly, on a whim, to join Trilegal – but ICI immediately followed as a client.

     

    How did you secure an appointment with Trilegal?

    The name would come a tad later. The founding partners were actually founders of three firms which they had started-up independently (at around the same time) in different cities. Sridhar and Karan (seniors at NLS) in Mumbai, Akshay and Anand in Delhi, Rahul and Prem (again, seniors at NLS) in Bangalore.  What I remember hazily is sometime in the winter of 2000 these gentlemen were in Delhi (possibly discussing Trilegal?). I was with ICI based at Delhi then and Sridhar caught up and asked if I would join Singh and Gorthi at Mumbai. I immediately did. Trilegal was christened very soon thereafter.

    I was an M&A partner. ICI had followed as a client, for an acquisition from Hindustan Levers (HLL). Then HLL hired us soon after for one other – they were across the table on that first deal. My two mentors at ICI (one of them had already moved on to a famous technology MNC as GC and the other would, a little later, as GC to a bellwether IT giant) stood by and referred a couple of acquisitions. I had not planned on leaving Trilegal. I went to London to complete my masters in Banking & Finance, to come back with perhaps an extra arrow or three in my quiver (or at least that was the plan). The LLM without the work experience would not nearly count as such. So therefore Clifford Chance –that stint continued longer than either I or Trilegal had planned.

     

    What motivated you to finish your masters? 

    This was planned for long time. I planned on doing my masters back in my fifth year. We were allowed a choice of either M&A or Banking & Finance for our 5th year clinicals. You couldn’t choose both for some reason. I, of course, opted for M&A with Prof. Pillai. So Banking & Finance was definitely on the cards for later.  Banking & Finance is also hugely driven by market practice, so this had to be a “practical” and working programme with an assured return on my investment (never bright enough for a scholarship). I picked a very specific programme (designed by Prof. Walker) at Queen Mary, CCLS after many months of painstaking research. As with the programme at NLS, this programme featured several partners from Magic Circle City firms – A&O, Linklaters, Clifford Chance, Freshfields, Chadbourne & Parke – the GC of World Bank and the redoubtable Philip Wood.

    The LLM would give me a new livelihood and a dual qualification in an international market. It is probably not enough to have an objective. You need a strategy (or two or three). Choosing a programme and the timing is part planning part luck. If you are pursuing a career in academics or with multilateral organizations, it is best you plan from your fourth year onwards and finish your masters as quickly as you can (the long slippery slope of an M.Phil / Ph.D lurks ahead, so Godspeed and good luck). Naturally, your choice of subjects will be simple and mostly driven by your forte. If you desire to augment skill sets, you should ideally hold until you have about four to five years of work experience. At this stage, your choice of universities and subjects will become increasingly complex as also your objective. An LLM without work experience is really a sabbatical – which is hardly a bad thing. Go out, enjoy yourself, take a break and come back enlightened to boot. Do it for the pleasure. Do not expect a payback. An LLM combined with work experience is not only force multiplayer, but you could cunningly weave in the “sabbatical” part. I saw a lot of UK and Europe on a shoestring while studying and working in the UK. You do have to fret about the “work experience” bit right up front though.

     

    How did you secure an appointment with Clifford Chance?

    I had completed my masters with an emphasis on leveraged finance. This was a high risk strategy given the Indian context – you still cannot structure PE deals in India using leveraged finance structures. Which meant, if I couldn’t secure a position in UK, the LLM would become a sabbatical (default setting – screensaver, I could have lived with it). The acquisition finance market was highly stratified at that time. The magic circle firms did the large (above USD 500m) and the mega deals, and the small and lower mid-market deals were the preserve of the silver circle firms. CC was at the centre of the centre of that universe. I planned my application well in advance, did tons of research, and wheedled several decent references. I did many interviews with other firms for practice. Enrolled with agencies. I keenly followed CC’s India plans on a daily basis. Made friends and tried to influence them –no stone unturned. Even then, when I got the call it seemed like the Lotto Euromillions numbers just tallied (I used to buy those tickets too). I was a senior associate with “50X” – as the CC banking and finance team was known back then. This was probably the best outfit for acquisition finance transactions. I did a lot of heavy lifting on headline grabbing international acquisition finance transactions, besides bilaterals and restructuring (finance). The work culture was truly world class. There were lawyers from all over the world with absolutely stellar partners. It is my second alma mater, a mothership, very close second to NLS.

    In September, 2008, Lehman Brothers collapsed, literally, in front of us. The European headquarters were located at Canary Wharf, very close to CC. I think it was a Monday when I turned up for work. I saw about 2,000 Lehman employees (some good friends too) cramped outside Lehman offices in Jubilee Park. That, for me was a graphic and symbolic snapshot from ground zero of the beginning of the 2008 crisis. Thereafter, the leveraged finance market simply fell off a cliff. Some in 50X shifted to restructuring, others moved on. I did restructuring for about 8-9 months, which was absolutely fascinating (especially whilst working with the Bank of England and Her Majesty’s Treasury) – but this was no longer a sustainable career option. I returned to India to pick up from where I had started, with those extra arrows in my quiver.

     

    How did your appointment as a Partner at Luthra & Luthra happen? 

    In mid-2009, Mohit Saraf was in London. We met over breakfast near Hyde Park. He asked if I would like to join L&L. It took nine months to return to India, but Mohit was more than patient. I joined as an M&A and Banking & Finance Partner at Mumbai.  Later, I would go on to develop the international debt capital market practice piggybacking on L&L’s superb ECM practice.  

    While at CC, I met with Vaishali Sharma, then Partner with AZB Mumbai. CC had tied up with AZB and she was in CC London in an ambassadorial capacity. Vaishali would return to India and later go on to found Agram Legal Consultants as a sole proprietorship in 2014. After nineteen years of doing everything (in-house, private practice, masters, magic circle…), what remained was the entrepreneurial plunge. In May 2015, I joined Agram.

     

    What was your role in founding Agram Legal Consultants? 

    We converted Agram to a partnership. I was now well and truly into the business of law from scratch, even doing IT and server maintenance by myself. Vaishali was already adept with both the practice and business of law and in addition proved to be an excellent administrator, bookkeeper, interior designer, HR and constant gardener.  The hurdles were many, but nothing loyal client following and good old fashioned project management couldn’t take care of.  As with the practice of law, the business of law, too, threw up more than one right answer. We looked at Agram’s growth from two different perspective. Vaishali focussed on the bottom line with quality as the primary driver and I was looking to grow the top line by adding partners and offices. Hindsight would prove us both right, but for that we needed two different platforms.

     

    You are currently a Partner at Samvad Partners? 

    I was looking for a larger platform around mid-2016. On account of a sporting injury I was admitted in Breach Candy. Harish (batch mate at NLS and old friend) and Vineetha (college mate from NLS and old friend), two of the three founding partners of Samvad came by for possibly the weirdest hiring decision Samvad has made to date. I had just undergone surgery, full of some potent IV stuff they were shooting (legally) – so I probably wasn’t too coherent, but over coffee and masala dosa (or idli?), at Breach Candy canteen I may have convinced Harish and Vineetha somehow. For me, the lifelong friends I made at NLS were yet again banding around me and it was an easy and natural choice. The transition was seamless. I continued with the very same M&A and Banking & Finance deals I was working on. Strangely, my clients didn’t seem to miss a beat (or may have pretended they didn’t) – not even when I was in hospital and these were large cross-border deals.  There were many law firms and many group email ids – so Agram servers were still being pinged. In one deal, Vaishali had to actually step in independently – that was hilarious.

     

    What hurdles have you faced in building your career as it stands today?

    Mostly my own pig-headedness and delusions of how clever I am.

     

    How have you overcome them and what lessons have they taught you?

    I have learnt to constantly double guess the calls I make. The lessons are: not to take myself too seriously; to remember that, success and failure are two sides of the same coin; and with luck (lots of) and planning (even more of), you will often win that toss (maybe, can’t really say for sure).

     

    What are the qualities one needs to develop to succeed in the world of corporate law?

    Do not depend on your knowledge and expertise with law alone. If you cannot understand your client’s business and financial imperatives, you would serve that client really well by not offering your services in the first place. And borrowing from my old mentor- “God resides in the detail”.

     

    What qualities do you look for while recruiting law students or young lawyers? 

    Problem solving. How I wish I had preserved Prof. Pillai’s question papers. CGPA may /may not / sometimes / depending / inter alia get you through, but then again, maybe not; yesno?

     

    How do you maintain a work- life balance?

    I look to squeeze the last drop of fun from out of every waking second, of every of minute of every hour. Rest of the time I sleep as long and as fast as my baby daughter. So far this has worked perfectly. This is more than a good bargain / balance / whatever this “work- life balance” thing be – at my age, I accept this with gratitude.

     

    What advice do you have for our readers who are primarily college students?

    Experience is a comb nature provides you with once you are bald. I am.

  • Debarupa Agarwala, Senior Associate, HSA Advocates, on studying in NALSAR, and working at Tier-I firms

    Debarupa Agarwala, Senior Associate, HSA Advocates, on studying in NALSAR, and working at Tier-I firms

    Debarupa Agarwala graduated in law from NALSAR, Hyderabad, in 2007. Debarupa is a dual qualified lawyer (UK and India) and has worked with leading law firms in Tokyo, London, Hong Kong and Singapore. She has extensive experience in general corporate and commercial advisory, M&A, banking and finance and capital markets transactions. She has been involved in advising various Indian as well as international companies on commercial law aspects, including drafting, structuring and negotiating various share purchase agreements, shareholders agreements, and other related legal advisory work. She also advises on joint venture investments, foreign direct investments into India, outbound investments from India, commercial contracts, employment law and compliance related matters.

    In this interview we speak to her about:

    • Her time at NALSAR
    • Having worked all over the globe
    • Striking a work-life balance

    How would you like to introduce yourself to our readers?

    I am a dual qualified lawyer (UK and India) with experience in corporate and corporate finance transactions.

     

    Give us a brief overview of your NALSAR experience for our readers.

    My time at NALSAR was an eye opener in many ways. Being from a small city (Guwahati), the first couple of years for me were spent in just adjusting to the curriculum and soaking up the cosmopolitan culture. My batch mates were from various parts of India and very intelligent. It was, honestly, a bit overwhelming for me in the beginning. But with each semester, I gained confidence and by the time I graduated from law school in 2007 with a job offer from Luthra & Luthra in hand, I knew I had made it.

    One mistake I made in law school was to focus entirely on classroom curriculum and grades in my initial years there. Luckily, I quickly realised that there was more to being a good lawyer than just one’s grades. I started getting interested in research and publications and that was the beginning of a very fulfilling time at law school. I also attended quite a few space law conferences in India and abroad and the exposure really helped me hone my speaking and soft skills.

    NLUs do have many advantages over other institutions. Providing legal education and access, exposure and infrastructure are the three things that immediately come to my mind. NLUs let you access good faculty, a robust alumni network to help with recruitments as well as access important events such as conferences and moot court competitions. They provide excellent exposure in grooming your lawyering skills. The emphasis on physical infrastructure such as buildings, access to internet and a well-stocked library is also typical of NLUs.

    Life as a law student in an NLU is easier than that in a regular institution because many things are handed to you on a platter. Without this kind of privilege, students from regular institutions have to work extra hard to be noticed.  

     

    What kind of internships did you undertake during your student years?

    Unlike most of my batch mates, the majority of my internships were with NGOs and academicians. Back when I was a student, I wanted to become a professor of law and I had structured all my internships that way. Believe it or not, I took my all my internships very seriously and each of them taught me something useful to take forward. My NGO internships in Guwahati and Delhi taught me empathy and to respect others. My research internships taught me the art of logical thinking. In my fourth year, one of my professors helped me secure an internship in a renowned IP boutique law firm in Tokyo. It was my first and only law firm internship and needless to say, the experience was worth it. I had to pick up spoken Japanese on the job and even managed to make about half of my leaving speech in Japanese on my last day at the firm.

    In your opinion, what are the law school centric activities that you would recommend as necessary experiences for every law student?

    I would definitely encourage students to engage in extracurricular activities such as mooting, debating or research. They are necessary not only because they equip you with the skills that are necessary to be a good lawyer but also give a big boost to your confidence.

    In the long run, I do not think anyone will judge your advocacy skills on the basis of whether you had mooted or undertaken paper publications in law school or not. But if you want your advocacy skills to stand out, this is what you have to do.

     

    What are your areas of practice and how did you go about choosing these fields?

    I always like to think that my areas of practice chose me instead of the other way around. I enjoyed practising corporate law and that is what I started my career with. In between, I worked in financial litigation, regulatory (funds), structured finance and capital markets. A lot of these were practice areas that I had to mandatorily experience as part of my solicitor’s training contract with Simmons & Simmons in London. I am back to practising corporate law now and enjoy it to the hilt. My training in finance is a complementary strength.  

     

    Tell us about your experience with Simmons & Simmons. 

    I have very fond memories of working at Simmons & Simmons. It was a very big deal to be accepted by an international law firm in those days and I was one of the first students from NALSAR to qualify as a solicitor of England and Wales.

    The London office of Simmons & Simmons was a very friendly place to work in and I had the fortune of working with some very good supervisors (partners) and senior associates. Apart from exposure to UK laws and cross-border transactions, I got solid legal training and work manners that I still carry with me.

    As a trainee solicitor, I was rotated through four practice areas, each lasting for six months for a total of two years. The rotation concept helped me get a flavour of different practice areas and based on personal experience, I strongly believe that junior lawyers should try and take on a variety of assignments in their initial years.

    Within my first year at the London office, I was selected for an international secondment to the Hong Kong office of Simmons & Simmons. I was suddenly in a new office in a new country but it was an amazing learning experience. I was given lessons in Cantonese and Mandarin so that I could communicate locally and with clients. Unfortunately, all the clients I interacted with in Hong Kong spoke English and my local language skills were never put to the test!

    You have work experience in Tokyo, London, Hong Kong and Singapore. Why then, did you choose India over all of these places? 

    Indeed, I have worked in all of these cities, sometimes by choice and sometimes by chance. The work culture in all the three Asian cities is quite the same. Lawyers there are hardworking and sincere and spend long hours at work. However, they are socially very active and no matter how busy they are, they always take long lunch breaks to bond with clients, colleagues, and friends. I have even had experiences where we have gone out for dinner with clients and come back to work in the office after that.

    London has the work culture I admire the most. Like in Asia, lawyers there are hardworking too but they are out of the office on time and spend most of their spare time socialising over drinks or spending time with family. I also saw very little hierarchy in law firms there.

    We moved back to India because we wanted to start a family and my husband wanted to set up his start-up on social polling. Our son is almost four now.

     

    How difficult is it to manage the pressure of working in a law firm with a young child?

    To be honest, it is very difficult. Lawyering and mothering are about as complementary as chalk and cheese! Finding the ideal work life balance becomes that much more complicated when you have a kid in the picture. Living in a nuclear family without continuous family support also puts me on the back foot.

    Luckily, I have made my peace with the fact that it is beyond my capabilities to attempt to be a supermom and a superlawyer at the same time. On some days, I am a slightly bad mother and on some days I am a slightly bad lawyer. But it all adds up to balance at the end of the day!

     

    What does it take to make the cut and land a Tier-I job?

    (Debarupa has worked at two Tier-I firms, Luthra & Luthra Law Offices and Shardul Amarchand Mangaldas in India.)

    The first thing is to start with a CV that stands out. Decent grades, coupled with extracurricular activities and interesting pursuits are what catch the attention of all law firms including Tier-I law firms. In order to ace your recruitment interview, you will have to demonstrate that you have all the qualities that they are looking for and will fit in well with the practice area. A lawyer who is confident, hardworking, committed and driven is a lawyer no law firm will refuse.

     

    What is the level of importance given to a student’s Grade Point Average with respect to recruitments at Tier-I firms?

    Some importance is definitely given to Grade Point Average but Tier-I firms generally prefer all-rounders who can demonstrate above average grades as well as extracurricular activities. Previous internships also matter a lot.

     

    How do you say interns should go about their work at firms like these, so as to get noticed in a positive way in the limited time they have?

    For an intern, the key to be noticed is to be confident in a law firm setting. As a senior lawyer, I look out for interns whose body language conveys to me that they are fine with taking assignments without getting overwhelmed. Diffidence is a big no-no. The second thing is your work product. Be diligent, do your assignment well, ask the right questions and stick to the deadline. I have seen many interns disappearing without notice when they were due to hand in their assignments, especially on matters with tight deadlines. One has to be responsible and avoid doing that.

     

    When and why did you decide to move to HSA Advocates?

    I moved to HSA Advocates in September 2017. Like most other moves in my profession, this was based on the desire to work more independently and to further my career growth. I was also tempted by the prospect of work life balance that a slightly smaller firm can afford you.

     

    Give us a peek into what a regular working day looks like for you. How many hours in a day do you spend at work?

    I start my day at work with going through my emails and noting down the to-do list of matters for the day. I also sneak a quick look at the Economic Times online. I discuss the list with my team partner and we prioritise the matters based on our discussion. After that, the list takes over! On a typical day, I could be researching and drafting legal opinions, reviewing documents, drafting agreements, speaking to or meeting clients and making calls to various government departments.

    Typically, my workdays range between eight to ten hours. I carry home whatever work I cannot complete in the office and finish it late in the night or early next morning while my son is asleep.

     

    Where do you see yourself ten years from now? 

    I see myself happy, wherever I am, and whatever I am doing. I live one day at a time and ten years is a long time to predict where life will take me. In an ideal situation, I would like to complete an LL.M. and Ph.D. and become an academician.

    Generally speaking, avenues for my line of practice include moving in-house or starting your own law firm.

     

    What is your message to our readers?

    Good lawyering comes with hard work and experience. Let no one ever tell you that you are not good enough or not meant to be a lawyer. There is a lawyer in every one of us – work hard and bring the lawyer out in you!

     

  • Apurva Agarwal, Founding Partner, Universal Legal, on starting his own firm, and working at Luthra & Luthra

    Apurva Agarwal, Founding Partner, Universal Legal, on starting his own firm, and working at Luthra & Luthra

    Apurva Agarwal graduated from National Law School of India University, Bangalore, in 1999. Soon after, he started work with Shah Desai Doijode & Phatarphekar.  He then pursued his LLM, with a focus in Corporate and Commercial Laws, at Bond University, Australia, where he achieved academic distinction when his name appeared on the Dean’s List.  Upon completion of his LLM he returned to India where he worked for DSK Legal (formerly Andersen Legal India) and Luthra and Luthra Law Offices.  He now has his own firm, Universal Legal.  His areas of expertise include Real Estate, Corporate and Commercial, Medical, Intellectual Property and Media. His articles have been published in various newspapers and magazines.  

    In this interview we speak to him about:

    • Working at Luthra & Luthra
    • Starting his own firm
    • Being a first generation lawyer

     

    What motivated you to pursue a career in law?

    I have always wanted to be a lawyer. And being a first generation lawyer at that made it all the more challenging. 

     

    Tell us a bit about your time at NLSIU, Bangalore.

    Studying law was challenging as the methods adopted in NLSIU were different. It was not lecture-oriented but discussion-oriented. Students were expected to read before coming to class, so that a healthy discussions could happen. It was an initial shock to me coming straight out of school to this. I come from an all-boys school, hence interaction with girls on campus was a pleasant surprise. Further, the faculty included stalwarts like Dr N R Madhava Menon, Dr. N. L. Mitra, Prof. S. V. Joga Rao, etc. which gave us perspectives of law beyond our imagination. Also, we had practicing lawyers coming and sharing their experiences with us , which allowed us to have practical insights to law.

     

    Did you take part in co-curricular activities while in college? 

    Yes, I did take part in co-curricular activities. I participated in a few moot courts—although, with rather unsuccessful results, I should add. I helped the institution organise several conferences.  The highlight was, when I led a team to organise an international conference on Human Rights in association with Interights. The conference was attended by 40 odd judges including Chief Justices from across the world, including Dr. A. S. Anand, the then Chief Justice of India.

     

    What were you areas of interest during your legal education?

    I was interested in doing Corporate Law. However, when I got into practical world and started working, real estate and succession planning became my forte. In fact, I have also authored a book on real estate called Layman’s Guide to Property Transaction Rights.

     

    What are the causes you feel strongly about? 

    We need to simplify the laws and legal writings so that a common man can understand it. I consciously wrote my book in a language other than English, to make it more accessible. Further, I conduct legal workshops and lectures through various fora to make people understand the same.

     

    What advice would you give students in avoiding a decision paralysis?

    Unless you want to get into academics or work abroad, pursuing further studies is not required. It’s better to dive into the big bad world headfirst. Practical experience is the best teacher.

     

    How did you keep up with Bond University’s academic rigour? 

    It was very exciting as you got to meet with students from across the world, which was not possible in India. It was a melting pot of diverse cultures. It was a confluence of various legal systems. The university expected very high standards of academic performance from all its students. The faculty was very approachable and friendly. We used to have lunches and drinks together and learn more outside the class than inside it.

     

    Tell us about your early professional experiences at DSK Legal and Luthra and Luthra Law Offices. 

    DSK Legal, through its managing partner Anand Desai taught me how to apply law to suit the clients’ requirement. The aim was to provide the client with the most appropriate solution. At the Luthra and Luthra Law Offices, I learnt to work against stiff timelines. The body of work was varied but mainly concentrated on Real Estate and Media.

     

    Did you have a mentor or guide during the formative years of your career?

    I did not have a mentor. I think it’s essential to have someone to look up to and guide you during the initial phase of your career.

     

    How did you come to be the Founding Partner at Universal Legal? 

    I was one of the first few recruits of Luthra and Luthra Law Offices, in Mumbai. This enabled me to get insight on how to establish a law office. This got me thinking, if I can do it for someone else, then why not for myself. We are a full service law firm. At the firm, we tried to incorporate all that we admire about reputable Tier-1 firms, and add a personalised touch to it. Also, we did not want to sit in office and idle our time. It was clear that people have to work long hours if there is work on the table. But if there are days, when there is less work, you are not required to sit in office. We believe in five day weeks and promote a healthy work life balance.

     

    Do you consciously focus on building a specific body of work? 

    Yes we do.

     

    What are the challenges and learning opportunities that you have faced in your career so far?

    The challenges are to constantly get work in the firm and keep abreast with the developments happening in the field of law. With the laws changing so fast and being adapted to new scenarios, we have to be on our toes.

     

    How do you deal with the pressures associated with your position?

    If you enjoy what you are doing, then there is no pressure.

     

    What qualities and achievements do you look for in potential job applicants/ interns at Universal Legal?

    The person should be willing to learn and have the basic knowledge of law. The person should have the ability to find the law and solution.

    Can you describe the process that goes behind writing?

    There is no processes as such. It’s the knowledge that we gather along the way gets translated into the writing.

     

    How do you keep yourself updated about the latest developments in the law?

    Reading and doing research. Also, by trying constantly reinvent myself

    What advice would you like to give our readers, who are mostly law students and young lawyers?

    Just be yourself and enjoy what you do.

  • Manish Gupta, Partner, Link Legal ILS, on working at Luthra, and his diverse experience

    Manish Gupta, Partner, Link Legal ILS, on working at Luthra, and his diverse experience

    Manish Gupta graduated from NLIU, Bhopal, in 2004. After successful stints at Titus & Co., Advocates, and Luthra & Luthra Law Offices, he is now Partner at Link Legal Indian Law Services.

    In this interview we speak to him about:

    • His time at NLIU
    • His experience at Luthra & Luthra
    • His role at Link Legal ILS

    How would you like to introduce yourself to our readers?

    I am someone who has grown and is still growing as a legal professional through hard-work, sincerity, focus on quality and a problem solving approach.

     

    Give us a brief overview your NLIU experience.

    I was in the second batch of NLIU and there were few issues relating to infrastructure at that point of time. Despite all that, it was a wonderful experience and the things which I learnt there were useful when I started my career and are still useful. While I do not know much about other institutions, things which make NLIU stand apart from other institutions are (i) its location at the outskirts of Bhopal, which in a way avoids distractions, offers more opportunities for students to interact and debate with each other, including their seniors and juniors as well as the resident professors, (ii) a good mix of students from all over the country which exposes students to understand and interact with students having different backgrounds.

     

    What are the subjects that you took particular interest in, during your law school days?

    I was interested in constitutional law and criminal laws. They did not directly affect my career, but the concepts and logic behind them always allows me to understand other laws well (e.g., why a particular law is being enacted or amended, to what extent the Parliament can go and regulate the conduct of the citizens, etc.)

     

    What kind of internships did you engage in during your student years which you feel were invaluable to you in reaching your current position?

    I interned with a few litigators and a couple of corporate law firms. Apart from the exposure of working on real life situations, I used to try to cash on these opportunities to closely observe real life law practitioners, who interpret and apply laws in a very different way, work in a very competitive and unpredictable world and deal with real life clients / counter-parties / judges. I tried to apply these learnings when I started working and it eventually helped me to some extent.   

     

    What are your areas of specialisation in law?

    I do not think that I have specialisation in anything but I do work a lot on transactions in the field of mergers & acquisitions, private equity and venture capital, both domestic and cross-border. Frankly, I did not preplan much from law school days and faced life as it came to me. Perhaps I got the opportunities I liked and moved on with the same, but that is of course not ideal and may not work for everybody.

     

    How were the first few years after your graduation?

    Quite tough, there was a lot of hard-work – both mentally and physically. There was always an atmosphere of fierce competition and a fear of unknown – what you do not know and what you have not done. I learnt the difference between theory and practice in a very hard way, but yes, the learnings from my law school helped me a lot. At least, I knew the basics of law and I was equipped with the ability to interpret the law. With hard-work and patience and a little bit of good guidance, I eventually managed to cross that hard part of my professional life. Having said that, life is difficult every day for legal professionals.

     

    In your opinion, is an L.L.M absolutely necessary for a career in law?

    I do not think so but it might give you a different exposure and perspective on things and most importantly, it would look good on your CV. But my advise would be to not do LLM in the very early phase of profession.

     

    What does it take to make the cut and land a Tier-I job? 

    (Manish has previously worked with Luthra & Luthra Offices., one of the most sought after firms for placements by students, as a Managing Associate.)

    In my case, it was a typical example of being at the right place at the right time. But later on, I have taken a lot of interviews of candidates there and in my view, what we at Luthra & Luthra wanted to see was logical approach, correct basics, some relevant experience and a lot of hunger to grow.

     

    What is the level importance given to a student’s Grade Point Average with respect to recruitment at Tier-I firms?

    It plays some role in creating the first impression or opening of the door, but it is not the most important or crucial thing.

     

    How do you say interns should go about their work at a firm like Luthra, so as to get noticed in a positive way in the limited time they have?

    Show more focus and sincerity towards work and desire to learn and work more. Also, try to interact with lawyers/ seniors there to understand their perspective on issues as well as give your views (if they are logical and to the point). Contribute as opposed to simply work on the assignment given to you.

     

    What was the reason for your transition from the Luthra offices to Link Legal ILS?

    I was looking for some change, including a different role and better challenges and Link Legal came at the right time. It was largely suited to my requirements and fortunately, I was also fitting their requirements. Link Legal is a relatively smaller firm but provides a much better platform for you to express yourself, create your own space and work in your own style. Further, Link Legal is growing very fast and thus, offers a lot of opportunities for you to not only become a part of its growth story but also a growth factor.

     

    Tell us about your current work profile with Link Legal ILS.

    Every day is like being busy with four to five ongoing transactions, one or two in the pipeline, some administrative and business development work and internal coordination with other corporate partners. My current profile is mergers & acquisitions, private equity and venture capital transactions, both domestic and cross-border.

     

    Where do you see yourself ten years from now?

    I don’t think that far, but would not be executing work as much.

     

    What is your message to our readers?

    Success is a constant journey and you should always travel with hard-work, sincerity, logical and problem-solving approach, in your travel bag. In the end, it is more satisfying than taking a short-cut.   

  • Tanmay Amar, Director-Legal, Omidyar Network, on transactional law, working with Luthra & Luthra, and his diverse experience

    Tanmay Amar, Director-Legal, Omidyar Network, on transactional law, working with Luthra & Luthra, and his diverse experience

    Tanmay Amar graduated from the National Law School of India University, Bangalore, in 2006. Immediately after graduation, he joined Luthra & Luthra Law Offices in New Delhi. He spent nearly seven years there, before moving in house with Sequoia Capital India, in Bangalore, where he spent almost three and a half years. And he has been with Omidyar Network as Director – Legal for the last five months.

    In this interview we speak to him about:

    • His time at NLSIU
    • Working at Luthra & Luthra
    • His diverse experience

    Are you a first generation lawyer?

    Technically not, practically yes. My mother qualified as a lawyer, and she did practice for a few years, but had stopped practising well before I was born (soon after the birth of my elder brother – she chose to give up her legal practice), so I never really got to see her as a lawyer, nor did we have any conversations around law/ legal developments.

    I did find the Civics classes in school interesting, but what really motivated me to consider applying for law school was Perry Mason. I was fascinated with Perry Mason books, though he didn’t influence me enough to conclusively choose law as a career. Towards the end of my school days, I was still considering multiple careers, but once I got through to NLS, Bangalore, I decided to go for it, given its reputation and standing.

     

    Did you take part in co-curricular activities while at NLSIU? 

    Yes, I absolutely loved participating in co-curricular activities. I found it quite enjoyable and ended up taking part in almost everything. I mooted, took part in client counselling/ negotiation competitions, quizzed, did dumb charades/ what’s the good word/ Pictionary/ antakshari, debate adjudication, danced (awkwardly) for the class on western and eastern music inter-class group dance events, organized various events, was vice-president of the student body, wrote articles, was on the editorial board of our flagship journal, went for a couple of legal literacy programmes where you educate people on their rights under law, represented the class in a couple of inter-class sports events, was active on the hostel management committee (general welfare committee), conducted orientation for juniors, once even went for a student protest in Bangalore against S. 377, IPC. So, there was very little I didn’t do in terms of co-curricular activities in college. Did well in some, was happy to merely participate in others. I probably spent 80-90% of my time in co-curricular activities and am happy that I did that. I felt like I made the most of the opportunities at college and generally look back with very fond memories.

    I would pay attention in most classes, that helped ensure I was doing decently in academics, apart from studying before exams.

     

    Could you tell us about the internships you took up, and what you learnt from those experiences?

    Most of my internships were litigation based – I did later wish that I had gone for more diversity. It was generally exciting just going to court, witnessing proceedings up close, particularly in the trial courts. I picked up stuff about court procedures and how things work practically. I can’t say that I picked up a new skillset or that my internships shaped my career in any significant way though.

    My most memorable internship was with Mr. Parag Tripathi, a senior advocate in Delhi. He had received a brief for opinion from a company and he asked me to prepare the draft response – this was early on, in my internship. He was very happy with the draft and barely changed a few words here and there, and thereafter gave me a fair bit of research, to help him prepare for his cases. The confidence he reposed in me was gratifying. It felt great being useful in real cases at a young age.

     

    From a law student to a lawyer, how will you describe the transition?

    One learns how to find the law in college. However, finding the right answer is not enough anymore once you become a lawyer. You have specific problems to solve, and apply the law to find solutions. You may have done that in moot courts and internships while in college, but not often enough.

    Also, most lawyers in their early years are required to put in long hours, so one does tend to miss the free time one had earlier. If you are in a corporate law firm, you do enjoy the money that comes with it. As one of my friends had put it, you go straight from 8 pm to Black Label when you move from college to a law firm.

    You are usually required to focus on areas of law, which cater to the requirements of your clients/ organization, which may not match your areas of interest. In college, you could have focused a lot more on areas, which interested you. However, your advice / work actually impacts real world decisions and when you see that happen, it can be immensely satisfying.

     

    How do you keep yourself abreast with the latest legal developments and industry news?

    I follow the news, online legal blogs and keep and keep an eye out for notifications from regulators in my area of work. Also, receiving alerts from law firms we engage is helpful. I am afraid I am not able to read as many cases as I would have liked to, but once in a while, I do read original judgements. For industry news, I rely on online editions of financial newspapers and some specific sites catering to the industry or on social media.

    Tell us about your early professional experiences at the Luthra & Luthra Law Offices.

    When I started, the team I joined had a lot of regulatory advisory work (it later expanded to work on a lot more transactions), so there was a lot to learn, as we do very little work on that in college. My first boss, Mr. Dudeja, was a chartered accountant cum lawyer, and it was an education to see him piece together effective transaction structures while navigating tricky regulatory restrictions. We got thrown into the deep end early, there were client interactions from the first few months onwards. In the first couple of years, there were many long days and some overnighters. However, I had a group of peers – there were some eight to nine of us from our batch, who hung out together at work and beyond. We got along very well and watched each other’s backs and made life easy for each other generally. Was thankful to have that group around me and we still remain close friends. And the firm was still not very large then, so one had easy access to the senior management like Mr. Luthra and Mr. Saraf, who were quite receptive to our suggestions and inputs. It helped me feel like an integral part of the firm and acted as motivation to work hard and do well.

     

    As the Managing Associate at the Luthra & Luthra Law Offices, what were the roles and responsibilities you took up?

    There was of course legal advisory work, which one needs to do at any level in a law firm, but with varying levels of involvement. In addition, mentorship was a very important aspect of the role – that involved sharing your perspective and experience with the juniors in your team, the two most critical things a mentor can provide a protégé. Client management was another large part of the role. One also had to do more administration work like reviewing description of billable hours and ensuring invoices were raised on time, and followed up on. At some point of time, one was expected to start business development as well, but I left before I could get to the deep end there.

     

    Having worked there for over six years, what did you enjoy most about the experience?

    There was a familial feel to things there, which is hard to replicate. I made a great set of friends there, met some exceptionally smart people and toiled hard. Got to learn a lot – there was plenty to pick up from the seniors there. I still enjoy an excellent relationship with people from Luthra.

     

    What motivated your move to Sequoia Capital? 

    Professionally, I felt that I needed to do something different after spending more than six years in Luthra. Some of the excitement from the early years had gone and I wanted a change of scene. I had done a fair number of transactions in my latter years in Luthra and had taken a shine to them, but wanted to have more perspective on them from a client’s side. And this opportunity came along, which was very appealing, so I went for it.

     

    On what parameters do you choose the projects you work on?

    It is not that easy to choose. You are usually steered by your organization’s needs. It may be possible to choose one of the areas you constantly work on, and develop an interest in that, but your choice may not be too broad. I do envy those who still manage to spend substantial time engaging in projects they have always been passionate about. I do not try to consciously build a specific body of work.

     

    Could your share some of the interesting cases/projects you have worked on and how they have helped build your career as it stands today?

    There was a transaction, which I did in my second year at Luthra, which shaped me and my career in a significant way. There was an overseas fund, which was investing in India for the first time and had engaged Luthra. I was on the team with a couple of seniors, but in the week that the client’s team was flying in to Mumbai for negotiations, both seniors ended up being unavailable for pressing personal reasons and I ended up leading the transaction, by default. It was not terribly complex, but there were a couple of unchartered regulatory issues to be addressed, and it was a little scary, considering that I was less than eighteen months into the profession. However, I put my head down and applied my mind and came through in good stead for the client. The general counsel of the fund was very appreciative of my work, and sent a glowing commendation specifically mentioning me to Mr. Luthra at the end of the deal, who forwarded it to the firm. That transaction gave me a lot of confidence and standing within the firm. It also steered me towards more transactional work in the future. The fund invested infrequently in India, but they did request for me to be staffed on the team each time.

     

    What does a typical work day look like for you?

    It varies a fair bit. There may an odd term sheet to review some day, on another I may be reviewing transaction documents, sometimes there will be negotiations on the documents, sometimes you meet founders / their team and discuss legal issues they are facing on current/ new projects, sometimes you meet people from the law firms, you generally engage. On a few occasions, you spend time reading up on law, or having calls with counsel in other jurisdictions trying to understand local law and apply to it your proposed investments there. Sometimes there are simple internal issues to deal with – like agreements with new vendors or getting corporate secretarial processes completed.

     

    How do you manage your time between your professional and personal interests?

    As long as the work is done, there is a fair amount of flexibility in terms of not being required to be physically present in office, so that helps. I have a toddler, so in the last couple of years, my kid has been the focus of most of my free time, but I do like to read. I spend around half an hour everyday reading myself to sleep and read more, if I get the time, particularly when I am travelling. Apart from reading, I am an avid sports fan. I love cricket, but also follow several other sports, particularly if Indian athletes are playing. I am constantly on cricinfo, when an India match is on, if not in front of the TV. I have recently learnt to swim and am trying to spend more time practising that.

     

    What advice would you like to give our readers who are inclined to developing a proficiency in Corporate Laws?

    One needs to understand commercials and business to be able to provide sound legal corporate advice. This may require a fair amount of extra reading, but unless that is done, one won’t understand the rationale behind various business decisions / requirements and one won’t be able to provide effective legal advice. One would be providing academic advice instead of marrying legal solutions to commercial requirements. One may be a great legal researcher, with impeccable analytical skills, but rarely do clients come to you for a simple opinion, they usually come to you to solve their legal problems and you can’t help unless you learn to create legal solutions that match business requirements. It is often a balancing act to find the perfect solution – sometimes you may need to suggest alternations to the business plan to provide an effective legal solution, which you can do only if you understand the business well enough to know what alternates would be acceptable and what not, from a commercial point of view.

  • Divyakant Lahoti, Advocate on Record, on quitting law firm and setting up independent practice

    Divyakant Lahoti, Advocate on Record, on quitting law firm and setting up independent practice

    Divyakant Lahoti graduated from University School of Law and Legal Studies (GGS Indraprastha University, Delhi) in the year 2008. At present he is a third generation lawyer, an Advocate on Record, a dedicated and driven lawyer with an LL.M. qualification in International Commercial Law earned at King’s College London and experience within a wide range of settings.

    In this interview he talks to us about:

    • His experience working with Justice R.C. Lahoti, Former Chief justice of India.
    • The procedure to apply in King’s College, London.
    • Why he specialized in International Commercial Law and IPR.
    • The biggest hurdles in his early days of independent practice.

     

    How would you like to introduce yourself to our readers?

    I am a third generation lawyer and an Advocate on Record. Since my childhood I was sure that there is no other enterprising and satisfying career option than law. From the early days of my childhood, my career aspiration was to become a true lawyer having a sound knowledge of socio-legal disciplines and related proficiencies so as to make a positive impact on society by taking up a responsible position in the legal practise. My father Justice K. K. Lahoti’s hard work yet smooth-sailing lifestyle as an advocate and then as a High Court Judge appealed to my childhood dreams. My perspective on life changed when I closely observed my father work as an advocate in his office attached to our house. I could closely observe an advocate’s profession and his life. What drew me to this profession was the respect one earns and the satisfaction one derives from advising his clients and securing them justice. Both as an advocate and later as a judge, in my father I saw live-in-action honesty, integrity and devotion to duty, giving me an opportunity to imbibe these rare qualities.

    My entrance into this profession began after pursuing 5-year LL.B. (Honors) from my alma mater University School of Law and Legal Studies (GGS Indraprastha University, Delhi) in the year 2008. My quench for specialised legal knowledge persuaded me to attain an LL.M. from King’s College London, one of the top universities in the World.

     

    How did you go about your application to King’s College London (KCL)? How different was the study environment in that university?

    In a fiercely competitive environment, the only thing which looks simple is the procedure to apply. You need only three things at that time – an IELTS (International English Language Testing System) Score of 7.5 and above out of 9, a Statement of Purpose (SOP) and Curriculum Vitae (CV) along with the Application Form. However, each of them requires days, if not months, of preparation and persistence –to revise, review and refresh.  IELTS is easy to crack for those who are fluent in English and had English as a medium of instruction in their school and/or college. A few days of preparation is good enough to score the benchmark. The problem lies in drafting, structuring, tailoring and reviewing the SOP and CV. The entire labour lies in presenting a SOP and CV that can stand out and catch the eye of the University who is screening thousands of such equally good and well written SOPs and CVs. However, the procedure keeps on evolving and students are advised to read the updated procedure and policy before applying to the law school.

    One can choose a particular area of expertise which is taught by leading practitioner(s) in that field. The advantage of being taught by such Professors/Practitioners, who are considered authorities in their fields of law, is to provide the student with root information along with innovative and problem solving methods with a focus on a comparative and international outlook.

    At King’s College, the LL.M program offers a wide range of modules that enables the student to grasp a thorough knowledge of the increasingly important areas of law and their concepts and application. King’s College London is a place which is inspired and instructions are imparted by leading experts and the student receives outstanding cultural, research and career opportunities in the very heart of London.

     

    Which one would you say is better – LL.M from abroad or from India?

    Well, that’s a matter of personal choice coupled with the budget of the student. One of the key reasons for me to pursue LL.M. abroad was its duration of one year. Now, many leading Colleges in India are offering LL.M. programmes of one year. Since this duration gap is bridged, the second question that comes to mind is the quality of education and the expenses for pursuing such a course from India or abroad. Undoubtedly, going abroad is more expensive because of the high College Fee, rent for accommodation and living expenses. The student needs to choose the university wisely depending on multiple factors like the area of specialisation, the professors imparting the specialised knowledge, the university ranking and job prospects after completing the course.

    I personally believe that any College, which has an intellectually rich faculty, a formative environment and rigorous campus discipline on one hand and is collaborative on the other, together with the student’s passion and commitment, is an ideal recipe for success and accomplishment. A graduate from a mediocre college may shine and reach the pinnacle of his profession while a student from a leading college may find it tough to earn even a comfortable living. It all depends on how the student capitalises on the given opportunities during the course and develops himself as a professional. Of course, learning in a good educational institution and from good faculty do have their impact.

     

    Please share your experience working with Justice R.C. Lahoti, Former Chief Justice of India.

    Learning from, and working with, a living legend is a dream come true. I had the golden opportunity to work with him, on various arbitration and opinion matters, after his retirement as the Chief Justice of India. I have not only learnt the art of advocacy but also lessons of life from him. Success in your profession gives name and power but the qualities of character give a good name and reputation. A gentleman professional is respected and remembered. Such success can be reached by different paths but not by changing paths along the way. According to him, reading spiritual, motivational, inspirational books and biographies/autobiographies is an essential source to augment the knowledge and improvise one’s own personality.

    As a student and then in the early years of my professional career, I had the opportunity of living with Justice Lahoti as a family member. I have closely watched his routine and working style. Working and reading are his passion. He reads a lot, both literature and law. He is an early riser. From the morning till late in the evening, he is busy studying, preparing for arbitration matters which are coming up, dictating orders and awards, and checking and reviewing the dictation well before circulating the same to fellow arbitrators and parties. He has earned recognition for his oration. His speeches and social lectures, cultural and educational event are also prepared by him in advance. The lessons which I have learnt from him are: (1) work is worship; (2) it is never too late to learn; and (3) if you have accepted an assignment, put your heart into it; never compromise on anything less than the best.

     

    What are the basics of a legal notice and how can one learn to draft one?

    A Legal Notice is the first step to set the civil justice system into motion. Drafting a legal notice is an art and needs the same skill as drafting a suit. It demands legal knowledge, expertise and experience. You need to understand the entire factual background, evidence in hand, the need of the client and the law(s) involved. Once this preparation is done, then the lawyer must proceed to draft the legal notice. A notice is a way which lays down the foundation for future attacks or defence. The tenor and tone of the notice should be proper – not too aggressive. A properly drafted Legal Notice or its reply can avoid litigation or the same could help the parties settle the matter through mediation at a pre-litigation stage or can assist the court in adjudicating the matter. On this subject, one of the must-have books for every lawyer is Mogha’s Law of Pleadings in India.

     

    How did you decide to specialize in International Commercial Law and IPR?

    In this growing economy, it is indispensable to keep abreast with latest developments in  financial and commercial law to deal with the changing market conditions. Needless to say, to practice law in the corporate and commercial markets today demands niche and specialist knowledge, robust common sense, analytical and problem solving skills with the ability to deliver pragmatic solutions to the clients. Moreover, LL.M. in International Commercial Law provides an impetus for developing the ability to understand, analyse, and solve complex and unprecedented problems. In a corporate and commercial environment, a close proximity with leading legal systems is sine qua non which can be gained by pursuing specialisation course(s). Specialization in IPR was out of sheer interest. I was awarded the Microsoft IPR Scholarship during my graduation for authoring an article on copyrights. Thereafter, I studied an Advance Course on Copyrights and Trademarks from the World Intellectual Property Rights Organisation (WIPO). Pursuant thereto, WIPO had offered me a full scholarship to pursue a 2-year course in Specialisation in IPR from the University of South Africa (UNISA) and WIPO which I completed in the year 2011.

    The knowledge gathered from these specialised courses is immensely helpful in advising clients, and drafting commercial contracts.

     

    Describe your experience at Luthra&Luthra Law Offices. What led you to shift from the corporate sector to Independent law practice?

    Luthra and Luthra had provided me with an action packed litigation experience, be it 2G or Defence Scam, from heavy stake commercial arbitrations to high profile telecom litigation. Under the able guidance of Mr.Rajeev Luthra, Mr.H.S. ‘Bobby’ Chandhoke, Mr. Siddhartha Datta and Mr. Manu Yadav, I sailed smoothly through the pressures of strenuous and complex litigation. Irrespective of such work pressure, the environment in the firm was always conducive, cordial and friendly. I have made many friends for life at this place and learnt many lessons of professionalism and client interaction. Indeed, it is a Tier 1 Law Firm which values the work and sincerity of its members and also feels concerned for their life and career.

    The Firm gives you the necessary skills and experience to commence an independent legal practise. However, what you would require is to hone your entrepreneurship capabilities. It was a well thought of decision to switch from a leading Law Firm to open up your own firm, though it is a life changing event as it comes with much heavier responsibilities which are all on your shoulders. One of the major advantages of going independent is that there are more opportunities to appear and argue the matters yourself before the Court/Tribunal and make yourself a brand. Such an opportunity is rare in leading law firms where there is a tendency to engage senior advocates even for simple issue(s).  Moreover, in an independent practise, you tend to handle more clients simultaneously unlike in a firm where you would be assigned limited matters/clients. Undoubtedly, there is more flexibility in an independent practise as compared to working in a firm. You are the master of your own time and have the choice of choosing the matters to involve yourself. However, in the initial years of practice, you tend to do whatever comes your way to sustain a living. Once you are established, then you have an option to do or refuse to do certain matters or develop a specialised area of practice.

     

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    What do you think are the biggest hurdles and challenges in the early days of independent practice?

    One of the biggest hurdles, in setting up your own independent practice, is to have an office, with the amenities and library, preferably near the Court Complex. The purpose of having an office close to the court would be to ensure that you reach the court on time and travel time is minimised so that you can use that time in more productive and meaningful work. The next step is to pitch yourself by informing your friends, acquaintances and your professional colleagues that you have started your own independent practice and your services are now available for private clients. Then, hiring a suitable clerk who has reasonable knowledge of court procedures and filings.

    Establishing your own brand, among the clients and court-rooms, is the foremost real task. An independent practice encompasses not only getting new clients but also retaining them and recover your outstanding fees from them. It is a challenge in itself. A lot of productive time is wasted in recovering the professional fee which is also important or else, your labour is wasted. Another hurdle is running around different courts and forums for the matters listed on the same day. To overcome this hurdle, the only possible solution is to engage competent junior lawyer(s) who are willing to prepare and argue the matter, if the need arises, before the court.

     

    What would be your message to our readers?

    There are ample opportunities for every lawyer and youngster who should strive for such opportunities and excel. The profession offers humongous prospects for those who are willing to sacrifice their comfort and leave their complacency to make their mark in this field. Due to the changing economy, the chances of young lawyers are enhanced as new chambers are being opened up or existing chambers are merging resulting in larger clientele, bigger premises and pooling of resources such as libraries. These chambers are looking for enterprising younger lawyers who can whole-heartedly devote their expertise and time for productive, qualitative and quantitative work.

    However, youngsters are advised to do their research on such chambers/firms, make enquiry into the status of the lawyers/partners of the chamber/firm and the kind and amount of work they are handling. Some of these chambers may not offer good prospects. For those who are looking forward to litigation practise, it is indispensable for them to join such chambers which have matters regularly before the courts/tribunals so that they can gain experience in court crafts and the art of advocacy from their seniors apart from learning necessary drafting knowledge, the art of cross-examination and the art of addressing judges.

    After choosing the right chamber/firm, the next step is to enhance the ability to communicate.  The objective is to make the Judge understand the case. Youngsters should practice speaking up clearly with modulation. Simultaneously, they should also be able to present the case to the Court/Forum lucidly and with brevity in a humble way, eschewing irrelevant facts and irrelevant arguments.  Undoubtedly, courtesy towards the Judge and court manners, including wearing clean and presentable robes, are of paramount significance.

  • Vinay Subramanian, Associate, AMSS, on moot courts, internship experience and job experience at Luthra and Cyril Amarchand

    Vinay Subramanian, Associate, AMSS, on moot courts, internship experience and job experience at Luthra and Cyril Amarchand

    Vinay Subramanian graduated from NLU, Jodhpur in 2011. He has been an avid mooter and debator during law school. He has won various moot court competitions including 9th Amity Law College National Moot Court Competition. He has also won the ‘Best Victim’s counsel’ award at the prestigious “International Criminal Court Trials Competition held at Hague, Netherlands”. By the time he graduated, he had received a job offer from Luthra and Luthra Law Offices where he worked for around three years. He is currently working as an Associate at Cyril Amarchand Mangaldas.

    In this interview he talks about:

    • Law school experience at NLUJ
    • winning moot court competitions
    • Internships and Work experience at Luthra and Luthra Law Office
    • Induction and work at CAM

     

    Before I begin, I would like to present my disclaimer to any and every person who purposefully and accidentally and who by ‘accidental purposefulness’ directs himself to this page:

    “By reading this you are officially on notice and you agree from the beginning of time to the end of the world that you will be bound by that notice (whatever that means). The associate herein (whose stellar repute is beyond any contention) hereby makes no guarantees, warranties, or representations, whether express or implied, or specific or general, regarding the accidental humorous or deliberately soporific replies to the questions in this interview. The associate (whose always just doing his job really) does not indemnify the readers from any actions, trauma, claims or injuries (whether physical or mental) caused by the trauma of reading this piece or the reader’s choice to pursue a legal career being influenced by the piece hereby. All legal careers are subject to client moods’risks and the law student must always bill carefully while at work and agree to always have a blast.”

     

    Most of our readers are law students and young lawyers. How will you introduce yourself to them?

    Darn! I now feel like I am giving my first firm placement interview all over again. Here it goes – I am Vinay Subramanian. I completed my B.A.LLB. with Honors in Business Law from National Law University, Jodhpur in 2011. I am originally from Mumbai and am presently working in the General Corporate/M&A team at Cyril Amarchand & Mangaldas & Co., Mumbai.

     

    How did you gravitate towards law? Why law and not engineering or medical studies?

    There is an interesting background to this. Unlike most other states, where it is your +12 grades that supposedly ‘shape’ up your future, in Maharashtra, the +10 grades are considered equally important since they determine eligibility to a junior college and the relevant streams. Though I had scored decently in my +10 exams and could have easily gotten admission for Science or Commerce stream, I chose to pursue Arts at St. Xavier’s College, Mumbai, unlike hoardes of other students who were making a beeline for the science and commerce streams. Thus, I probably was more inclined to remain ‘offbeat’. After clearing my +12, I was pursuing Economics and Statistics Hons. at St. Xavier’s College, Mumbai. At that time (around 2005-06), the notion was that it is wise to choose a legal career only if one came from a family of lawyers. Most of the national law schools set up at that time were still in its infancy and hardly had a batch or two passing out of it. In fact, at that time, even the theory of having a 5 year law course was unheard of in Mumbai. Luckily, one of my batch mates drew my attention to the existence of national law schools and the tremendous scope a legal career had on offer. When I dug deeper, I realized that a legal profession had tremendous potential and could turn out to be one of the more rewarding and lucrative careers that students would look forward to in the coming years. Hence, adopting an ‘offbeat approach’ once again, I decided to dive into the water and test its depths.

     

    How would you describe your time at NLUJ? What are the co-curricular activities you took part at NLUJ?

    “Coming back to Life” is how I would describe my experience at NLUJ in a nutshell. Looking back, I am confident in saying that NLUJ has shaped the individual that I am today. Apart from academics, interacting with students coming from different parts of the country introduced me to new cultures and ways of life. The location of the university also provided me an opportunity to put on my travellers cap and wander across the beautiful landscapes of Rajasthan.

    With respect to co-curricular activities, the one thing remarkable about NLUJ is its encouragement for participation in extra-curricular activities.

    I was fortunate enough to represent my alma mater in several moot court competitions, both nationally and internationally. It was a proud moment when we were chosen to represent India at ‘The International Criminal Court Trials Competition held at Hague, Netherlands’ and even managed to bag the ‘Best Victim’s counsel’ award. Apart from this, I have won the ‘9th Amity Law College National Moot Court Competition’ at Amity Law School, New Delhi.

    I have also been an ardent proponent of, and participated in a number of, parliamentary debates held across the country. I have also been a keen fan of travelling and have participated in a college fests held across various law schools in the country.

     

    Tell us about your internship experiences and how they shaped your career choices later.

    I have had the good fortune of working with reputed firms focussing on different areas like constitutional law, civil procedure laws, securities laws, criminal procedure, banking laws, foreign investment laws and contract laws. These include Luthra & Luthra Law Offices (Delhi),  Wadia Gandhy & Co (Mumbai), Fox, Mandal & Little (Mumbai), Bhasin & Co. (Delhi) and K. Ashar & Co. (Mumbai) to name a few.

    All these internships played a definitive role in determining my career. Particularly, it was in one of these firms that I had the unique opportunity of drafting amendments to a state legislation in Maharashtra, which were present and passed by the state legislature a year later. This motivated me towards taking up drafting documents and identifying issues in different legislations.

     

    What do you have to say about mooting at law school and legal writing for journals? Are these helpful even after the student graduates?

    This is a tricky one. It is like asking a doctor whether cutting a frog or cockroach into two during his science class practical is helpful during his career as a neurosurgeon. Moot courts, extempore competitions, parliamentary debates, legal writings and paper presentations must be seen as an aid for the development of the skill of advocacy rather than trying to exactly account for how much of it is applied during one’s legal career. These are mere tricks that prepare you for the real world. I am sure a student who has faced a room full of dissident judges barraging questions left right and centre at him would stand at a better footing while dealing with a high pressure negotiating board room with parties breathing down each other’s necks. Similarly, a student who has a number of publications to his name will be able to draft a legal opinion in a more focussed and cogent manner.

     

    Did you find that your law school education had prepared you sufficiently for the many tasks you were required to execute during your internships and later at your job?

    The above question seems to be limited in scope. I want to take a step further to answer how much a law school experience helps anyone in the real life actually. Much like the mantra for the foundations of any stable and happy relationship, a college education can offer only as much as you are willing to accept. Similarly, in a law school as well, it is the student’s choice as to how much he wants to extract from his college experience and apply it in the real world.

    We were also fortunate that NLUJ adopted a hand in glove approach while approaching academics and co-curricular activities.  For instance, it is probably one of the only law schools in the country which made mooting compulsory for every law student under every law subject and allocated a portion of the grades to it. Thus, this ensured that though students had to focus on academics, it necessarily didn’t mean that they have to sacrifice mooting experiences for academics.  Further, this approach also introduced students to mooting from the first year onwards providing students a head start and acclimatised them to a mooting environment.

     

    After graduating from NLUJ, you joined Luthra and Luthra Law Offices. How did you secure your appointment? What kind of responsibilities you were entrusted with there? How would you describe your experience working there?

    The experience at Luthra & Luthra Law Offices was very enriching. I secured my appointment through the process of campus placements. I worked in the general corporate/M&A team at the Mumbai office. We were mostly involved in advising healthcare and pharmaceutical companies, private equity and strategic investment funds and media companies. We also acted for private equity funds and foreign companies in making investments in the healthcare and pharmaceutical sectors. In my personal professional capacity, I acted as the lead associate in several of these transactions. My role included assisting in documentation, negotiations, interacting with clients and generally leading the deal under the able guidance of my partner.

    As a personal experience, the first three years of your job forms the fulcrum of your entire legal career. In the first or the second year, an associate must be able to decide whether he is cut out for the job or not. However, for this to happen, the firm must constantly be providing a challenging environment to the associate where he is challenged on a daily basis and thereafter arrive at such a decision. I was very fortunate to have an office and a boss who kept pushing me against all odds and forced me to constantly think outside the box.

    As part of the general corporate/M&A team, Luthra & Luthra provides an exceptional insight into the field of foreign investment law, which is the buzzword for any general corporate lawyer. Their understanding of foreign exchange law regulations takes into account the pragmatic approach taken by the regulators towards the law.

     

    After having worked at Luthra and Luthra Law Offices for almost three years, how did the shift to AMSS take place? What prompted you to make this choice and what made this shift possible?

    Every law firm in India is a different setup by itself with its own peculiarities relating to professional etiquettes like work timings, work exposure, client servicing, documentation review etc. It is important for any corporate attorney to get exposed to these different setups before settling down for a specific setup. I believe that the best time to take this leap is before the lawyer becomes too senior in the hierarchy. This was what predominantly guided me to make this choice. Also, at the time, my partner was himself moving to AMSS and I thought the switch was allowing me to enjoy best of both worlds – work under the guidance of the same partner and with a firm that is one of the best law firms in the country for gaining corporate law experience.

     

    What does your current work profile at AMSS consist of? Tell us about the nature of work you’re entrusted with therein and what’s a typical day like? How has been your experience as an Associate at AMSS so far?

    AMSS has been a great experience so far. My current work profile consists of both advisory and transactional work streams. From an advisory perspective, I am involved in providing detailed advice and drafting legal opinions on different aspects of corporate, contractual and foreign investment law. The introduction of new Companies Act has made this field even more interesting since several of these provisions are new and untested. This requires us to delve into the intent of the law (wherever an ambiguity is present) and provide pioneering views on the relevant issues.

    From a transaction standpoint, I am involved in running transactions for several private equity players under the guidance of my partner. This requires constant interaction with clients, negotiating with counter parties and driving the transaction to its consummation.

    A typical day at AMSS is ‘work, work and work’, which, contrary to what it seems to suggest, is not actually a ‘bad’ thing. The multitude and nature of transactions that keeps pouring into this firm is phenomenal. What makes it more worthwhile is the uniqueness of each transaction and question, which makes us push ourselves and strive for excellence.

     

    Corporate law comes with a humongous workload. What made you gravitate towards this field? How do you manage the workload and your personal life?

    Honestly, as any other normal law student, the remuneration was primarily what attracted me towards this field. However, once I entered, I got sucked in due to the variety and diversity of my legal sector. A general corporate law firm profile entails an associate to shoulder different types of responsibilities. Apart from the provisions of company law and contract law, an associate is constantly exposed to different arenas of law on a daily basis. This is very different from a specifically focussed specialization like Competition law or Intellectual Property Laws. This kept the day challenging for me and I continued to row on.

    When people talk about how corporate law comes with a humungous workload, I somehow feel that it is not entirely true. A litigation lawyer has an equally strenuous work life (if not more) as compared to corporate lawyers. I have a number of my peers who are working in different spheres of litigation and I see them slogging equally (if not more) than us. A humungous workload is the benchmark for any lawyer and not alone corporate lawyers.

    The best way to manage workload and personal life is to take advantage of your ‘leaves’ from time to time at regular intervals. As I am an ardent traveller, I like to pack my bags off spontaneously and see what the roads have on offer for me. Even getting away on weekends to nearby places helps you de-stress and reinvigorate one self.

     

    According to you what are the qualities that make a good lawyer?

    I don’t think I am qualified enough to list down these. But from looking at my partner and seniors in action, its determination, focus and genuine fondness for the job that maketh the man in any profession. The thumb rule is – every morning when you wake up, ask yourself whether

    (a) you are determined to reach the office that day;

    (b) you are genuinely enjoying what you are doing; and

    (c) you are being constantly challenged (because honestly ‘staying in your comfort zone’ is just another way for saying that one is ‘stuck in a rut’).

    If the answer is ‘yes’ you will automatically excel at whatever you do and become a good lawyer.

     

    What are the primary professional ethics you follow while at work? What has been your strategy to deal with errors and mistakes?

    I think my answer to the above mentioned question answers the first part. Now for the second part – All I can say is that “To err is human but… to have a client who has forgiven you must be a client who must be cherished and treasured for life and one must ensure that he never leaves your side!” But on a serious note, like any other job, an associate is bound to make mistakes since he is new to the field. Learning from your mistakes is what is more important than crying over the ‘spilt milk’. The best strategy is to remain focussed and keep questioning yourself at every stage of the transaction or advice. The moment you start asking too many questions about a particular point you realize that you do not have enough information on the relevant issue and you need to start reading up. Once you have read enough and understood the nuances, you will realize you are much more confident and this in turn will result in lesser mistakes. Also, this is where the role of an able and approachable senior comes into play. Having a helpful senior provides an associate with a self of reassurance.

     

    Many law students strongly believes that getting a job at one of the top 3 law firms is mostly about securing a high CGPA. Would you agree?

    In my experience, a high CGPA does come in handy at time of procuring a pre-placement offer or getting a foreign firm internship. But I think the buck stops there. Lately, we are seeing a number of top tier firms slowly changing their strategy to pick an “all-rounder lawyer” rather than a one who has only chased the kites of grades during his law school life. Interestingly, on a lighter note, this could also explain why we see most of the top tier firms doing exceptionally well in law firm cricket and football tournaments as well nowadays.

     

    These days there are many law students rushing forth to intern at law firms from their first year itself throughout till their fifth year. What do you have to say about the advisability of law students pursuing such a course of action?

    Choosing your internships wisely during your legal education can be very advantageous when one finally makes a career decision on specializing in one specific area of law. As a law student, we have a very different notion of the specialization areas. An internship actually helps a student break the myths and notions and helps him bridge his expectations with the reality of work life. I believe that at least for the first 3 years, a law student must try to do an internship in every possible area of law that he has added to his wish list for specialization. Also, it would be best during this time, to not join the bigger firms but start with the smaller firms, where there is more scope of interaction with the seniors. By the end of the 3rd year, it is important for the student to zero in on the specific legal area that he intends to specialize in. It is the 4th and 5th year, where a student must focus on choosing internships with firms that specialize in the area that he wants to work in. I used the above as a thumb rule to choose my internships.

     

    AMSS takes on interns as well. What do you feel makes an intern stand out and is very important for him to do to have a chance of getting a call back or even a PPO?

    Unlike what law students think, an intern for associates at top tier firms are as important as what an internship at a top tier firm means to an intern. With the “acche din” juggernaut rolling presently, the associates have their hands more than full. An intern who has a basic idea of the law, is focussed and determined eases the pressure of the associate since he is able to focus on other things while the intern is sharing his/her workload.

    What associates look out for in interns is ‘sincerity’ and ability to grasp propositions well. Thus, if an intern is not able to understand a particular nuance (which by the way is very normal since the intern does not have the type of exposure associates have had), it is worthwhile for the intern to discuss and get clarifications from the associate as early as possible. Once an associate sees that the intern is working and meeting expectations, it is but natural for him to recommend him/her to the relevant partner and assist in the call back/PPO process. Once the partner realizes that his associates have entrusted their faith in an intern, he will be more than willing to bring him/her into the fold since this for him results in progression and growth for the entire team.

     

    What skills would you say is a sine qua non for an intern who wants to excel at work?

    An intern must focus on her ‘research’ skills. It is rare that an intern would ever get to draft a legal document while interning. It is the research skills and ability to point out issues in a particular proposition of law that would make an intern stand out and excel at his/her work.

     

    What would be the one misconception you’d say you’d always held about real life legal work till the time you were an intern but changed once you started working as a lawyer?

    I guess I had watched too much of ‘Boston Legal’ and ‘The Practice’ during my college life to have any notion other than that of waltzing into a law firm as ‘Denny Crane’ or ‘Alan Shore’. As an intern, luckily some of these myths faded away and a blurred image of the reality was shown to me. But when I started working, I realized that as an associate, one has to shoulder much more responsibility and accountability that never existed much as an intern. Additionally, with every passing year, you are responsible for not only training and keeping a check on yourself but also on your juniors who rely on you for your guidance in every area of work.

     

    The question that whether one should specialise in a particular area of law or be more of a general lawyer often comes up before law students. What is your opinion on the same?

    It basically boils down to the nature and preference of a particular individual. It is not like the specialized areas are mundane and one would end up doing only the same stuff day in and day out. However, the basic legislation for the work would be the same. General corporate law helps an associate to try his hand at different areas of law. A general corporate lawyer also helps tie in the specialized areas of law and knit them into a complete package which is then presented to the client. For instance, in any private equity transaction, inputs from the Competition law team and IPR team are taken and provided to clients to provide them with specific inputs of these areas on the relevant transaction.

     

    Where do you see yourself five years from now?

    I like to take one day at a time since in the words of Keats, “In the long run, we are already dead”. I see myself continuing to do something challenging, and determined and striving to excel at whatever I am doing.

     

    Lastly, what would be your message to all the law students reading this?

    In the word of Baz Luhrmann, “Sometimes you are ahead, sometimes you are behind, the race is long and in the end it is only with yourself…”. So keep calm and dream along.

     

  • Neha Thakur, Senior Associate (Indirect Tax), Luthra & Luthra, on work experience in tax firms

    Neha Thakur, Senior Associate (Indirect Tax), Luthra & Luthra, on work experience in tax firms

    Neha Thakur is a graduate from NLIU,Bhopal (batch of 2007). During college, she was quite active in co-curricular activities and has excelled in them. She has also managed to pursue Diploma Course in Corporate Law offered by ASCL, Pune. Soon after graduation, she worked at Vasan Associates for a short period of time and thereafter switched to Economics Law Practice. She has also worked at Ernst & Young. Currently, she works as a Senior Associate (indirect tax) at Luthra & Luthra Law Offices.

    In this interview she talks about:

    • Specializing in Indirect Taxation
    • Working at Vasan Associates and ELP
    • Being a Senior Associate at Luthra & Luthra Law Offices

     

    How would you like to introduce yourself to our readers who are mainly law students and lawyers?

    Destined to be a lawyer, is how I see my life in retrospect. I have been fortunate to have worked under some outstanding lawyers who guided me through my career so far. It’s extremely important to define what you want in life in order to draw a path to achieve it. My first stint as a legal trainee was at Yahoo!India’s Bangalore office where my mentor Mr. Amitabh Lal Das gave me some of the most important tips to make the right decisions regarding my career path. My first legal engagement after law school was with Mr. R. V. Prasad (Vasan Associate) whose impression as a professional on me will continue for a life time. It was under him that I’ve learnt the most important lessons of life, to never compromise with principles and be very professional in your approach to work.

     

    What brought you into studying law? Was it fate or planned?

    As I earlier mentioned it was destiny’s play, supported by some favourable turns in life. I started my career much before I actually got through law school. Being a second generation lawyer, I used to visit my father’s chambers regularly and was engaged in some or the other work by his colleagues. This resulted into an early orientation in the field of law. My mother believes in aiming for the moon as even if you miss you’ll land among the stars. She inspired me to take the entrance exam and was the push behind the decision to make a career in the legal field.

     

    What were your areas of interest during your graduation? How did you go about developing expertise and knowledge in these areas?

    My exposure to tax laws was due to the fact that my father is a tax advocate. Although he practices Direct Taxes and I practice Indirect Taxes, my inclination was always towards tax laws. However, IPR laws did interest me. During my college days I’d done an internship with Kris & Kolloth, Bangalore which is an IPR firm and it was a great learning experience. Subsequently at Yahoo!India I had some more exposure to IPR laws. However, as luck would have it, I got internship opportunities with LKS Bangalore and Delhi office thrice during my 5 years at Law school and it set the path for the future in tax. I also did a diploma course in Corporate Laws through ASCL, Pune.

     

    Right after graduating, you worked for a year at Vasan Associates as an Associate and then joined Economic Laws Practice as an Indirect Tax Associate. How would you describe you experience at both these places?

    My mentor at Vasan Associates, Mr. R V Prasad is a practising Advocate at the High Court of Karnataka at Bangalore and deals mainly with tax laws. His systematic litigation strategies make him an outstanding lawyer; my foundation in the profession was laid during my tenure with him. It’s very important to have a good mentor in the beginning of one’s career as that characterizes your entire professional life. His approach towards clients and cases is focussed and his emphasis on efforts to excel in one’s subject was a lesson I’d learnt under him.

    I continued to be a part of the litigation team at ELP which furthered my inclination into litigation. It is thrilling to argue your own case. It was a very exciting phase; ELP is one of the market leaders in the field of tax and has a great team to work with. Their knowledge base helps you to learn the subject better with each passing day.

     

    After one and half year of work as an Associate at ELP, you joined Luthra & Luthra Law Offices as Senior Associate (Indirect tax). What qualities do you think helped you to achieve this status?

    Each firm has set parameters for each role. For example, for the position of a Senior Associate the person should have certain relevant work experience, then again relevant work experience may or may not include your independent legal practice. It all depends on the firm’s policy. So essentially it was the relevant experience because of which the firm decided that position for me.

     

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    What’s a typical day at work like? How  can one gain expertise in Indirect Tax? What does it take to be a good Indirect Tax lawyer?

    Well, I’ve done a mix of litigation and advisory from Indirect Tax perspective. Both are a different ball game I must confess, although the common string to sail through is regularly updating your knowledge in the field. Once the clients develop a relationship with you as their lawyer, they do not always restrict themselves to ask questions related to your expertise. To a tax lawyer they might ask something to do with evidence law, you are the go-to person for them and you have to obtain answers. My first read at Vasan Associates was a book on human psychology as recommended by Mr. Prasad, which I realise was the best first step taken. In this field we have to understand the human psychology since you are dealing with them at all levels, be it your clients, colleagues, judges, staff etc. You cannot afford to lose patience with clients in a service industry. I would highly recommend all new lawyers some good reading before you start in the profession, it’ll take you a long way. Always remember “be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle”.

    Also as you move up in your career, responsibilities increase, you need to watch your act as you’re grooming your juniors. Setting a good example as a lawyer is something all of us should maintain to have a better professional world. As an indirect tax practitioner a lawyer’s competition is mainly with the Chartered Accountants, who are very thorough with their knowledge in this field as they put in long and hard years to be the professionals they are. The only way we stand on the same footing is by systematically updating yourself on a regular basis. Read the relevant journals; stay aware of the recent judicial precedents and statutory procedures. Make networking your strong point, knowledge acquired should be put to use by practice.

     

    What has been your strategy to deal with errors and mistakes? How would you advise a young associate to deal with them?

    The best thing about mistakes is that you can correct them. It goes on to show that you made an effort in the first place. So have a positive outlook, perspective matters a lot. Consider every error as a step forward and you’ll be better with each one of them.

     

    What changes has being a Senior Associate brought into your life? Do you ever feel that there is excess of work load on you? How do you manage to strike a balance between your personal and professional life?

    Growing up professionally ensures that you are at the middle of the pyramid and have a team which helps you with matters. Delegation is possible at this stage and also you start getting a better grip on your domain and take less time to complete a task. We start grooming the young lawyers at this stage while still trying to get better ourselves. This stage is hectic and requires a lot of multitasking since you are in the middle of a lot of change at all levels. To be very honest, the personal life definitely takes a hit being a legal professional. Being in client service industry wouldn’t be any different. My suggestion is to be mentally prepared and make the most of your initial years and make a strong base for yourself while you are free of personal responsibilities. Lawyers across the globe work long hours (Harper Lee and John Grisham would agree). By this I’m definitely not suggesting that you do not socialize. Networking is an important aspect of our profession, we cannot survive in isolation. Manage your time well and make time for people who matter, it keeps you sane.

     

    Tell us about a case that you are particularly proud of. What steps do you take to prepare for a difficult case?

    The burden of Indirect Tax is ultimately borne by the end users. The seller adds the tax to the goods and every unfavourable order adds to that cost. So every favourable order makes me proud to have saved some cost for the common man i.e. us. In my limited tenure so far while there are several matters worth being mentioned, the one which is in my recent memory is that of Mumbai International Airport Ltd. (MIAL). On behalf of the client we appeared along with Senior Adv. Mr Sridharan before the Customs Excise and Service Tax Appellate Tribunal (CESTAT). The point of contention was whether Service Tax is applicable on the development fees collected by MIAL as per the statutory requirement under the Airport Authority of India Act. Development fees is the amount which the passengers pay for the future development of Airport facilities, it may be used for construction of another terminal after a decade. It is in the nature of statutory fees therefore levy of Service Tax on this fee will essentially mean tax on tax and extra cost to the passenger. The final decision is pending and therefore we cannot discuss it any further at this stage. Everyone who’s spent even one year more than you in the profession has something to learn from. Be a sharp observer and try and learn as much as you can. There is always a better way to staple papers, prepare paper books, drafting, dealing with clients & officers of the department and doing research for the matter. While appearing with seniors just by observing them or reading judgments in cases argued by them, you may learn immensely.

     

    You must have guided several interns. How would you say that an intern can generate a positive feedback in the limited time they have?

    Put yourself in the shoes of the counsel who’s delegating work to you, while they entrust the research they expect you to be sincere and responsible. If I work with an intern I want to believe every word they tell me about a particular topic, I believe they have exhausted every possible source of information and I will not have to confirm facts. There are no short cuts in life. You are a crucial resource for the counsel as an intern, you save them time with accurate information. Before you start, ask as many questions as you want, understand the point well, make notes and do an exhaustive job. Be responsible with the work which has been delegated to you, don’t abandon the counsel uninformed. There are so many times that interns do not count themselves as a vital part of the system and tend to be careless. This often results into double efforts both of the counsel and that of the intern.

     

    You have excelled in your academics, interned at top-notch Indian law firms. Do you ever feel that you missed out on the fun part of your college life? Could you tell our readers how you managed to excel as a law student and enjoy your college life?

    I believe that I had all the fun I could in my student days. I participated in all extra curricular activities, internal moots, mock UN, world youth conference, was an active member of ATHENA (the culture cell of NLIU). I do not think I missed upon the fun part of those times. I didn’t lose focus of what I wanted at the end of those five years and still had a gala time. My internships were in cities I hadn’t been before like Bangalore. And I loved exploring it. Take your internships as a learning experience both professionally and personally. You explore a new place and make new friends, so you should consider yourself lucky. It’s the perspective which matters.

     

    What would be your message to our readers who are budding lawyers and law students?

    It’s a great decision taken to be a part of the noble profession. Reading is an integral part of our field, and by reading I don’t mean legal reading alone. Keep your knowledge updated in the area that you practice primarily. General reading, autobiographies such as “Roses in December”, “Before Memory fades” are great for insights. Groom yourself well socially, it’s a service industry and we all need to keep improvising. I wish luck to all of you.

  • Ashish Singh, Associate at Luthra&Luthra Delhi’s Litigation Team on work profile and higher studies

    Ashish Singh, Associate at Luthra&Luthra Delhi’s Litigation Team on work profile and higher studies

    Ashish Singh is a graduate of GLC, Mumbai. He had interned at Luthra & Luthra’s Delhi Litigation Team as a Law Student, and therefore right after graduation in 2012, Ashish got a job offer from the same team.

    Right from graduation he has continued to work at Luthra, and he had the opportunity to work independently in various high stakes litigation. He has advised clients on legal issues including corporate frauds, civil commercial litigation, Arbitration and Conciliation Act, 1996, Architect Act, 1972, Copyright and Trademarks and Transfer of Property Act, 1882.

    He has also advised an MNC in the recent Common Wealth Games matters, before the High Court of Delhi.

    In this interview we had asked him to tell us a few things about:

    • Experience at GLC, Mumbai
    • Luthra Delhi’s Litigation work profile
    • Expertise in Anti Piracy litigation matters
    • Utility of Higher Studies in litigation

     

    How would you like to introduce yourself to our readers who are law students and young lawyers?

    Hi, I am Ashish and I am working with Luthra & Luthra Law Offices in the General Litigation Team at New Delhi. I graduated in the year 2012 from Government Law College, Mumbai.

    I am a go getter who believes that all problems have solution. We only need to find them. Litigation has thus given me an avenue to convert this belief of mine into action. The thrill of arguing in Court and getting relief for my Client is something which keeps me on my toes.

     

    Please tell us about your pre college life and your time at law school. Did you have lawyers in your family?

    Throughout my life I have been in boarding. I joined boarding at a young age of 4 1∕2 (four and half) years. I am thankful to my parents for taking this harsh decision of sending me to a boarding school. I call it harsh because it is one of the most difficult decisions for all parents to send their children of such a young age away from them and let me tell you that unlike today there were no mobile phones at that time and the slow postal services was not of much help either. I still remember that there were times when I used to reach home much before the letters that I had sent asking my parents to take me home for vacation.

    I would say this helped me a lot to shape into a strong, confident and independent person. I learnt that “..there are things which only you can do for yourself no one else can do for you…” You have to learn to do things on your own whatever it is tying the lace of your shoes or the knot of your tie or travelling to an unknown city for the first time (without any technology aid).

    In boarding there are many programmes which are mainly organised and managed by students (of course in the supervision of teachers). I was one of the active participants. This experience not only helped me in my college life in getting sponsorship for different events organised in college but is also helping me now in building Client relationship and even while pitching for new Client.

    My five years at GLC were the most enjoyable and important years of my life. For a boy who comes from Bihar and was under supervision 24*7 in boarding, Mumbai and the freedom at college was a breath of fresh air. I enjoyed every bit of it and lived my life to the fullest.

    I am a first generation lawyer. I firmly believe that when one knows what he/she wants from life and is clear about his aim then it becomes totally irrelevant whether you belong to  a family of lawyers or not. What makes you successful in this profession is your grit, determination and the desire to achieve.

     

    You studied at Government Law College, Mumbai, considered to be one of the premier law colleges in India. Please share with us your time in college.

    I feel blessed to have gotten an opportunity to be a part of an institution called Government Law College (GLC), Mumbai. The college was established in 1854 and has given our country some of the most successful lawyers, finest Judges and the first Lady President of India.

    GLC gives you an opportunity to intern throughout the year, thus helping you learn from the experience of seniors in the profession from the day you start your journey to become a lawyer.  Also various competitions that are conducted in GLC throughout the year give you a rounded personality which makes you a better lawyer.

    I actively participated in the events organised in college and tried to intern as regularly as possible.

     

    Apart from getting engrossed with academic work how else did you spend your time in law school?

    GLC has lot of committees to keep you occupied. I was one of the active members of the Legal Aid Committee and our main work was to provide legal help to the poor and needy which ranged from drafting of bail application, complaint before Consumer Forum, etc to coordinating with different NGOs who work in the same filed.

    Apart from studies, I like acting and directing. I was a part of a small theatre group in Mumbai. I used to spend most of my free time rehearsing and performing at different location and often we used to do street play. I love theatre and lot of time was spent at Prithvi theatre.

     

    Please share with us your views on time management in a stressful law school environment.

    Time management is the key to success in all spheres of life. It is important to maintain a work life balance because attending classes, working as an intern, preparing for various competitions and the exams can take a toll on you. It is therefore important to prepare a time schedule keeping in mind the dates for competitions, exams, etc. Ultimately you cannot be a lawyer unless you have a degree. So it is important to clear all your exams in addition to doing internship.

     

    Please tell us about the work environment at Luthra & Luthra. What all do your work profile consist of?  What is a normal workday like?

    Luthra has a wonderful working environment. As a beginner you need a lot of encouragement and support from your seniors. I was lucky to have a few mentors who made the transition from being a law student to a lawyer easier than it would have ordinarily been. One great thing about working at Luthra is the accessibility to both Partners and Senior Partners.

    As mentioned earlier, I work in the General litigation practice and normally my day begins with a visit to Court with my partner. Once I am back, there is enough research and drafting to keep me busy. Also, discussion with the team working on the brief gives you a different perspective to the matter.

     

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    Anti-piracy and Anti-counterfeit issues being a nascent arena of litigation, please tell us how did you get interested in taking these up as your field of practice?

    I began my practice with the Anti-piracy and Anti-counterfeit (APAC) team but gradually was given an opportunity by the firm to work on a wider range of issues in the General Litigation Practice.

    Yes, APAC is a nascent field and there are limited lawyers working in this area. But, it has a huge potential in the coming decade to become a specific practice area. Many counsels who began practising in this new area five six years from now, are now considered expert in the same. I therefore joined an area which had just begun to warm up.

     

    You have had diverse internships. What advice would you want to give to budding lawyers in regard to internships?

    I took whatever internship opportunities I got. Honestly, choosing internships was not a conscious attempt but in the hindsight it has proved to be an enriching experience. It helped me decide that litigation was my calling.

    My advice to law students would be that they should take their internship sincerely. It is the time when one understands the practical aspects of the subject they are studying. They should try to intern in both corporate and litigation practice so that they can decide to choose one depending upon their interest and liking. Also, internship helps one in forging relationship and getting placements. Many PPO’s are given based on the internship performance. I got this job based on my internship performance.

     

    You have been a part of Luthra for a considerable amount of time now. Please share with us Luthra’s expectations from a budding lawyer and what do they look for in the CV of a budding lawyer?

    I think all the law firms have only one expectation from a fresh law graduate that the person should be open to learning.

    In today’s world people prefer to specialise in their areas of interest and pursue higher studies.

     

    What are your views on higher studies? Should a law student pursue higher studies right after graduation or after procuring some work experience?

    I think what you learn from the practical experience can never be learned from books. Though an LL.M does look good on a CV but from a litigation perspective what is more important is your ability to think quickly and respond to situations as they arise in the Court. One has to think on their legs. This comes more by experience than by LLM. LLM from abroad does gives an exposure and broadens ones horizon but the cost at which it comes is a bit too high. Students spending such amount towards LLM also have expectations of high salaries which are little difficult to get in India. This at times, creates disappointment amongst students and they take up jobs abroad resulting in brain drain, and is a loss of brilliant minds of our country. In any case , I think if one is interested in pursuing higher studies it should be done after experience of couple of years as after working for a couple of years one becomes aware about his area of interest and also the industry requirements.

     

    How should we consider choosing a law firm over litigation or litigation over a law firm?

    I don’t think I have chosen law firm over litigation rather I am doing litigation in a law firm. Working with a top tier law firm gives you a chance to do work with big clients on matters involving huge stakes. It also makes you a good team player as a group of people are working on the brief. In addition to the aforesaid, working in a firm also gives you an advantage of seeking assistance of people specializing in specific areas while preparing and drafting matters.

     

    What would be your message to law students who want to have a smooth transition from law student to law professional?

    Don’t get disappointed/disheartened if in case you can’t secure a job in campus placements. I did not get one either. Work hard and be focussed. There is no replacement of working hard. In the initials years try to work on as diverse fields as possible. This will help you have a better understanding of different areas of law which will make you a complete lawyer. There are no short cuts to success. This profession demands a lot of your time, dedication, energy but it also gives you a lot in return. You just need to be focused and patient.