Super Lawyer

Tag: PSU

  • Being self-employed and creating job opportunities for others is very fulfilling and exhilarating at the same time- Abhishek Gupta, Advocate, Supreme Court of India & Delhi High Court

    Being self-employed and creating job opportunities for others is very fulfilling and exhilarating at the same time- Abhishek Gupta, Advocate, Supreme Court of India & Delhi High Court

    This interview has been published by  Priyanka Karwa and The SuperLawyer Team

    Can you share with us the pivotal moments and motivations that led you to pursue a career in law, from your academic achievements to your early experiences in the legal field?

    Being born into a lawyer’s family, it was more likely that I would end up being a lawyer. However, apart from occasionally taking dictation from my father for his court matters, my exposure to law and litigation was quite limited. I was more inclined towards mathematics in school, which led me to pursue B.Com (Hons.) from Delhi University. My interest in law only piqued towards the fag end of my graduation when my interest in accountancy slightly waned. That is when I decided to join Campus Law Centre, Faculty of Law, Delhi University and study law. I truly embraced law only when I joined Luthra & Luthra Law offices after my graduation, where I got an opportunity to work on several high-profile disputes, connect with some of the brightest minds and occasionally enjoy five-star luxuries. Gradually, in the course of my journey, I have realised that a career in law apart from being a very effective vehicle for service to society, is equally remunerative and rewarding, and offers enough space and time to pursue other intellectual hobbies and interests as well. In hindsight, I feel I made the right decision to pursue a career in law as I could have never done a 9 to 5 job, or a regular government job. Being self-employed and creating job opportunities for others is very fulfilling and exhilarating at the same time.

     You started your career at Luthra & Luthra Law Offices and then transitioned to independent practice. What were the key lessons you learned during your initial years in the legal industry, and how did it shape your decision to go independent?

    Nearly a year that I worked with Luthra & Luthra was very rewarding and has stood me in good stead during all these years. It was there that I learnt to burn the proverbial midnight oil. On several occasions, after working the whole night, it would only be in the wee hours of the morning that I would come back home. Seeing the hierarchy of lawyers there classified as associates, senior associates etc., I realised that one cannot be in a secure environment for too long and the real challenge in law is to start independent practice. My father being a designated Senior Advocate also played a significant role in this decision. But he made it quite clear to me that your pedigree can only last you as long as you are able to satiate your clients and deliver results. Fortunately, quite early in my legal career, I understood that there are 100 lawyers pursuing 10 clients and that there is going to be stiff competition. And it is only sheer hard work that sets you apart from others. It also taught me to accept both good and bad with equanimity.

     As an independent practitioner, you’ve worked on a wide range of cases, including arbitration, complex contract litigation, and various other areas of law. Can you share one particularly challenging case that tested your skills and knowledge and what you learned from that experience?

    While there are many such cases and each case teaches you something new, I have a predilection towards my first case as an independent practitioner where I appeared before the Saket District Court and successfully argued a domestic violence matter filed against my client. I remember how I had gone fully armoured with three sets of case law and written notes of arguments and the other lawyers in the courtroom were quite astonished to see this level of preparation for an admission hearing, but that preparation kept me afloat and served me well. I was also commended by the learned Judge for my arguments who took me for a seasoned counsel. This experience taught me that no amount of preparation is too much and one should be fully conversant with the facts of the case supplemented by knowledge of the latest precedents on the subject. I cannot help but mention one of my first arbitrations in a tender matter for a PSU, which was one of the most fulfilling experiences in terms of the knowledge and skills that I acquired. More importantly, that case instilled a lot of self-belief and confidence in me. Another case close to my heart is one before the Orissa High Court where I resisted a petition for termination of the mandate of an arbitrator. I had to really think on my feet for that matter and pull a rabbit out of my hat. It is also true that every time you read a brief, you see a different angle to it and learn something new. Therefore, it is very important to read and re-read your brief.

    Your involvement in the ‘ONGC vs. Afcons Gunanusa JV’ case was significant. Could you elaborate on the key aspects of this case and how it influenced your expertise in arbitration and the interpretation of the Arbitration & Conciliation Act, 1996?

    The ‘ONGC vs. Afcons Gunanusa JV’ case was the consequence of looming uncertainty and opacity about the fixation of arbitration fees in ad hoc arbitrations in India. Though the Supreme Court in ‘NHAI vs. Gayatri Jhansi’ had upheld the agreement between the parties on arbitration fees as binding, no party dared to cross Lakshman Rekha of suggesting an appropriate fee to the Arbitrators. The Supreme Court finally laid rest to the fee conundrum in ONGC Afcons case and passed necessary directions on determination of arbitration fees; It particularly held that the Arbitral Tribunal does not have power to fix its own fees unilaterally and that the fees must be fixed at the inception of the proceedings to avoid unnecessary litigation and conflicts at later stage. This was truly a watershed case for me in many ways. The learning and lessons from assisting the then Attorney General for India, Mr. K.K. Venugopal, are for a lifetime; the opportunity of appearing before a Bench headed by the present Chief Justice of India and consisting of two future Chief Justices of India so early in my career; the satisfaction from intensive study, research and drafting and the sheer delight of participating in a landmark case is quite overwhelming. It taught me the single most important lesson- that a lawyer never ceases to be a student and it is essential to keep educating and updating oneself. More than the expertise in arbitration, it showed me how to develop command and competence in any branch of law. 

    You mentioned your academic background in commerce, which provides you with the ability to decipher complex financial statements and transactions. How has this background been beneficial in your legal career, especially in cases involving financial matters?

    I honestly believe that background in commerce is helpful particularly when you are handling heavy stake arbitration matters. In any commercial dispute, there are two important aspects to the case: firstly, the party who is in breach and secondly, the measure of damages. It is the latter aspect, when you go into the proof and quantification of damages, i.e. financial claims, interest on capital, vouchers, ledger accounts, balance sheets, auditor’s report running into thousands of pages, that the knowledge of commerce comes in handy. I know quite a few brilliant lawyers who are not able to decipher basic P&L Account statements. I therefore recommend everyone to take a crash course in commerce, even if one has not pursued it at graduation level.

    You’ve authored articles on a wide range of legal subjects. Could you share one article that you are particularly proud of and explain why it’s relevant in the legal landscape today?

    Honestly, at the school level or college level, I never had any occasion or inclination to write any article. In fact, it was a very dear friend of my father-a retired bureaucrat, who motivated me to write even before I became a lawyer. He was editing a magazine in the early 2010s and gave me a platform to publish my articles. But out of the 25-30 articles that I have authored so far, it is very difficult to pinpoint one, yet I will pick my article ‘Suo motu cognizance: A panacea or a predicament?’ that was published in ‘Bar and Bench’ during the first wave of Covid. I honestly believe that this article continues to be relevant even today and ought to kindle more debate and discourse. I had received a great deal of appreciation for that piece of writing from many retired judges, senior counsels and colleagues.

     Your experience involves working with various PSUs and handling different areas of law. How do you balance the diverse needs and legal challenges posed by your clients in the public sector, and what strategies do you employ to provide tailored solutions?

    Dealing with PSU clients, as a matter of fact, is much more challenging than dealing with a private client and there are several reasons for this. In a PSU, there are various departments, namely marketing, finance, contract & procurement, HR etc. headed by a particular officer. At times, they are working at cross purposes unknown to them. If a dispute erupts against a contractor, all departments are interacting with the contractor speaking in different voices and tones; The process of harmonisation becomes a challenge. There is a vigilance angle in every case; you have to be doubly cautious while drafting pleadings for them. Unlike a private company, RTI applies to PSUs, any suppression or misstatement can land you in a soup. Remuneration is also meagre compared to private clients, but yet it is a delight to appear for PSUs because by and large the officers are upright, sincere and very well-educated and committed as well, although public perception is somewhat different.

    Finally, what advice would you give to fresh law graduates who are just starting their careers in law? What skills and approaches do you believe are crucial for success in the legal profession, particularly in the context of your areas of expertise?

    All that I would wish to say is that there is no substitute for hard work. I also maintain that a brilliant person may fail, but a hard working one can never fail. Proficiency in written and spoken English cannot be overemphasized. Of course, honesty and integrity are an absolute must, particularly when dealing with PSU clients. In a way, the legal profession requires no different skills than you would need in any other profession. It is hard work and honesty, coupled with a little bit of luck and maintaining level headedness and an affable demeanour throughout that will succeed.

    Get in touch with Abhishek Gupta-

  • Shikhar Thukral, Legal Officer, Bharat Petroleum, on LL.M from Boalt Hall and work experience at a PSU

    Shikhar Thukral, Legal Officer, Bharat Petroleum, on LL.M from Boalt Hall and work experience at a PSU

    Shikhar Thukral graduated from Government Law College, Mumbai in 2013. Upon graduation, he joined Bharat Petroleum Corporation Limited, Mumbai as a legal officer, and has stayed in that position since. In 2015, he completed a Professional LL.M programme from the Boalt Hall School of Law, University of California. He has interned in leading law firms such as Crawford Bayley & Co., and Luthra and Luthra Law Offices while pursuing his LLB degree.

    In this interview he discusses:

    • Law as a tool of social change and his motivation for pursuing it
    • The reason why knowing corporate laws is important even from a social perspective
    • His experience with pursuing a Professional LL.M
    • His publication on Section 377 of the IPC.

     

    Tell us a little about why you decided to pursue Law. Has this always been your career plan?

    I come from a family of doctors, which would make one presume that the medical profession was my natural calling. However, of my own volition I decided to ‘don a black coat’, as I always believed in law as an agent of social change. I would like to share a story from my school days which I believe is a precursor to my decision of choosing the legal profession. During my 12th standard I was actively taking part in heading the student body and making representations to our Principal for our needs. We came across an instance were some of the school faculty were offering private tuitions to the students. The students who were availing those tuitions had secured good marks in their pre-board terms and other students, though meritorious, were deprived of marks. I personally brought this to the notice of the school management with a detailed written representation, and finally a decision was taken that such tuitions should be stopped. I chose to study law in the hopes that I will be able to represent the community at large for more such social reforms.

     

    You have worked with several top tier firms. How do you think your experience with them has shaped your approach to the profession?

    Working with law firms gave me a firsthand knowledge of how to deal with clients in a professional manner. I still leverage that experience in my current role dealing with in-house clients. Moreover, in a law firm environment you cater to different industries whereas working for a company restricts you to a single domain. The law firm paradigm helped me understand that the legal profession is very competitive. However, there is scope for everyone to reach up to a certain level. Beyond that, earning a good reputation chiefly depends on your networking skills with clients.

     

    Have you always been interested in Contract Law and Corporate Law? How did you choose your specialisations?

    shikhar-thukral-2As I have stated earlier, that my ultimate ambition to pursue law was to necessitate advocacy for social change. However over the years I have learnt that it is also important to know the other side of the story. We often keep hearing that “big oil”, “big tobacco”, and “big bank” companies control the economy of the country. A reform, however laudable its social objectives are, cannot disjoint itself from economic objectives. To accomplish such objectives, it was vital for me to engage my faculties in corporate and commercial laws too. Also, I must candidly admit that as an immigrant in Mumbai, my survival from a fiscal point of view had to be taken care of and the pursuit of noble objectives of socio-economic reforms were not rewarding financially. Hence, my decision to engage in studies of Commercial and Corporate law are attributed to both these reasons. Nevertheless, I have not deterred from my initial ambition. I intend to do more social studies and ultimately work towards achieving social reforms. What I am doing currently is only a stepping stone to what I intend to accomplish later

     

    You presented a paper on Section 377 of the Indian Penal Code. What is your stance on the issue as it currently stands?

    Now, a great deal depends on the outcome of the curative petitions which are currently pending before the Supreme Court of India on this issue. I have always maintained the stand that a person’s orientation is a basic liberty which should be protected by the contours of fundamental rights in our Constitution. It is quite heartening to see that conservationist groups are also now supporting this position. I was disappointed by the outcome of the efforts undertaken by Shri Shashi Tharoor when his proposal to strike down the provision failed in the Union Legislature. However a new CJI has given us hopes that the LGBT community can survive in the society without any fear of persecution. I must add here that there are some pragmatic limitations on every liberty. I believe in decriminalization but that should not lead to glorification. “Your right to swing your arms ends just where the other man’s nose begins.”

     

    You have worked extensively with Public Sector Undertakings as an in-house-counsel. Can you tell us about your experience with that? What do you think young lawyers aspiring for the same should always keep in mind?

    It is indeed a very good environment to work and the work load is fairly manageable. Your innovativeness in providing legal solutions, especially in supply chain/product companies would be greatly rewarded.  There is tremendous opportunity to learn and you will also be exposed to important and high stake matters from the very start of your career. I remember giving advice on a 100 Million USD transaction in the first three months of my work. You will also be subjected to soft skill trainings on a regular basis to develop your personality. As an in-house counsel for a Public Sector Undertaking, one must keep in mind that you are discharging a public duty and it is enjoined upon you to be fair and impartial in all your dealings. You will undoubtedly be bound to support the Corporation’s stand, but counsels must be firm in their advice to deter certain practices. It is indeed quite a tough call to make and sometimes your advice will be superseded. I would advice my brethren intending to join a PSU to be accommodating and tolerant in such scenarios. Your passion and devil’s advocacy may be put to test.

     

    As a lawyer, it is very important to be able to negotiate with clients. How do you build the rapport required for that?

    I have always felt that a personal connection with the client aides towards that end. Before meetings, I usually research on the participants and I try to engage in informal conversations on their likes and dislikes by relating them with myself. Try to exhibit a personal interest in your clients as it helps in building trust. I must also modestly admit that I have a very good sense of humour and that comes in handy while building connections. Even if someone is sitting across the table in the capacity of an opposite party, there is no harm in making an enquiry into their character, business and whereabouts. You never know they may be your client tomorrow

     

    Tell us a little about your time as a Law Student. How did you prioritise your time?

    I must state that I have been a good student, though I spent most of my time as a vagabond in Mumbai. The hostel life caught up to me and I thoroughly enjoyed the same for the first two years. After my pre-law (B.L.S) years, I engaged myself in internships as at that time I thought that in this profession, experience counts more that education. However I never stopped studying and devoted my nights studying the subjects. I also engaged myself as a remedial lecturer in the Government Law College, teaching the pre-law subject Logic to students. I prioritised my time to ensure that my days are devoted towards internships and nights for studies. The weekends were always devoted to leisure.

     

    After pursuing your B.L.S. and then LL.B from Government Law College, Mumbai, you went on to obtain a professional LL.M. from Boalt Hall School of Law, University of California, Berkeley. Tell us a little about the application process, and how you got in.

    The application process was indeed a harrowing experience as a lot of things had to be arranged over a short period of time. Apart from the application form, you needed a Statement of Purpose, Reference Letters (academic and professional), transcripts, college degrees etc. At the same time I was also working in my current role and so was overwhelmed initially. However when my Corporation supported me to pursue this, I left no stone unturned to ensure that I got through. I was chiefly selected on my academic performance and my SOP for which I was also awarded a tuition fees scholarship. I would recommend that readers aspiring to join the University do their research on the programme as this is a programme split over two summers and is meant for working professionals. The readers may please refer to llbguide.com to know more about the programme and make an informed decision. The application process is clearly explained on lsac.com and the applications can be made from there.

     

    In your opinion, how exactly did an LL.M. from abroad benefit you? What was your thought process in deciding to go abroad?

    Doing an LL.M. from any foreign University completely changes your perception of studies as compared to India. Speaking from my experience at Berkeley, I must say that the manner of education abroad is far superior. An LL.M. from a foreign University indeed helped me in my current role as I am regularly applying the knowledge gained therewith to my current work-profile. Moreover, it increases your marketability in India and abroad as a candidate for jobs, though not initially but after achieving 3-5 years PQE. Also, the connections that you make there will benefit you and your organization greatly. Today I can safely say that I am in touch with a lawyer in every major city in the world and my Corporation is also availing their facilities. I chiefly intended to go abroad to experience a full-fledged University style of learning. As I mentioned earlier, I did not attend much of my college in Mumbai as I was busy in internships. Coupled with the scholarship, it was a win-win situation and I was able to gain a firsthand experience of learning in one of the most prestigious law colleges in the world.

     

    For other aspiring students with their sights set on foreign universities, what do you think is essential for them to keep in mind?

    Foreign Universities are meant to impart learning and should not be viewed as an investment to secure better job prospects. There are many benefits you can gain from foreign Universities. One should experience learning in such an environment to assess where they stand as compared to the world. I understand it is a time consuming and costly endeavour, however for students who really wish to understand law from an international perspective must pursue such opportunities. One must also keep in mind that the experience itself will change how you think about the legal profession.

     

    The progression of your career seems to be a constant upward slope. How did you plan it? Did you have a set plan from day one?

    You are very kind to have made such an observation. I must admit that I never planned how all pieces will fall into place, but yes I had a broad plan in mind from day one. Like I said earlier, my ultimate ambition is fixed and I am working in a phased manner to achieve that objective till date. It involves both learning and working simultaneously. I am still in the nascent stages of my career and I hope that I continue on the path of achieving my dream. What is important to set your eyes on an objective and pursue the same diligently.

     

    What do you think are the key elements to focus on with regards to planning one’s career?

    The elements will keep on changing with passage of time. First and foremost comes your education which will give you merit to enter into your career. Selecting the right educational path will determine where you land up ultimately. The second is your working. One must decide whether they wish to work for someone or work for oneself. In practical terms for our profession the same translates to working for a law firm/company or working as a practicing advocate. Self-assessment is very important to decide on the two aspects and making the correct choice. In working, the most important element especially for the legal profession is sincerity. In this profession a lot comes from experience and one can only accomplish the same through sincerity.

     

    What message would you like to give our young readers?

    Experience everything that life has to offer you. The good, the bad and the ugly. Keep an open mind always.

    I would also like to express my sincerest thanks to Super Lawyer for considering me for this interview and I wish them and their readers immense success in all their ventures. It is really encouraging to see profiles of so many people from our profession and learn from the same. Keep up the good work.