Tag: SDMLC

  • Kirti Krishna, Senior Associate, Khaitan & Co., on corporate law, turning author, and his experience

    Kirti Krishna, Senior Associate, Khaitan & Co., on corporate law, turning author, and his experience

    Kirti graduated from SDM Law College, then affiliated to Mangalore University, in 2012. With a very minor litigation stint, he moved on to a boutique law firm called Themis Associates, during which he was also on secondment with Sequoia Capital. He moved to Khaitan & Co in 2015 and has since been a part of their Securities, Capital Markets and Corporate team. His experience spans Mergers and Acquisitions, Venture Capital / Private Equity investments and the Securities market. He is also deeply inclined to labour law and compliance in general.
    In this interview we speak to him about:
    • Juggling extracurricular interests with academia
    • Writing his book
    • His experience in corporate law

    When did you decide to take up law as your profession?

    Unlike most others, I always knew I wanted to be a lawyer. Back in school, I was greatly drawn to academic disciplines that discussed human culture, history, and politics. The farthest memory I have of me wanting to be a lawyer is from my fifth grade. I recollect having participated in a debate competition, winning it, and getting back home only to tell my parents that I will be a lawyer someday. By the looks of it, I’ve successfully lived up to achieving my childhood goals.

    I’m told that my maternal great-grandfather was a District Judge in Alleppey, Kerala. Apart from him, to the best of my knowledge, I think I’m the only person in my family who took up law as a profession.

     

    Tell us a little bit about your life a student of law at SDM Law College. 

    Some of my best years were spent at SDM Law College. The institution is a private law college in Mangalore, Karnataka. As a student of law, I found deep interest in academics as well as co-curricular activities. Given that Mangalore is a very education-centric city, we would have colleges host student festivals every other week. Apart from participating in moots, I also had the opportunity of participating in an array of management fests, and finding newer avenues to excel, without limiting myself to law. As a student, I kept myself on the move all the time and enthusiastically involved myself both with the college’s moot court society as well as the students council.

     

    How did you divide your time between academics and co-curricular engagements?

    Luckily enough, my college had very flexible hours. Between my first and fourth year, I had classes from 09:00 AM to 12:30 PM, and for a part of my final year, I had classes from 09:00 AM to 1:30 PM. During my final year, I recollect my batch creating a ruckus when we were told that our classes may be extended by an hour. Our principal had to finally give in, and we ultimately managed to ensure that our classes did not extend beyond 12:30 PM.

    Given these hours, I would typically use the rest of the day to focus on participating in moots, fests and other activities. When I was in my first year, I had made a goal of attending at least one moot each semester. While I couldn’t quite achieve this, I managed to make it to about six moots in the five years that I spent in college. As a student, apart from academics and co-curricular activities, I also took up part-time jobs to earn extra pocket money. Between my first and third year, I worked as a part-time news anchor for a local cable show, and also undertook some assignments for the All India Radio. In my final year, I worked part time at a call centre.

     

    What kind of activities did you undertake in law school that helped you nurture this interest in writing and editing?

    I come from a family which draws a lot of inspiration from the arts. I have always been interested in writing and don’t think I consciously took up activities in law school that helped me nurture this skill. My folks always laid too much emphasis on the power of books and the habit of reading. When I was barely six, my mother gave me about a 100 Amar Chitra Katha books and made sure I read at least one book each week. In my teens, I was introduced to the likes of J D Salinger, Fitzgerald, and Ayn Rand. Amidst all of this, I was also gifted the entire Harry Potter series at some point resulting in me, a 27 year old man, continuing to identify myself as a hardcore Potterhead. With all the books I read, my imagination found newer dimensions to explore. What began with scribbling random thoughts on pieces of paper, transformed into me writing blogs, and ultimately, writing a book.

     

    From a law student to a legal professional, how will you describe the transition?

    Back in college, I had idealistic dreams of getting into litigation after graduation and saving the world. My lecturers continue to find it really hard to believe when I tell them that I changed paths and took up corporate law as a profession. To be honest, the transition from college to the legal profession was not very easy. I started working immediately after I gave my final exams in the year 2012. For the first six months, I practiced law, traveling from court to court and making minor submissions whenever I was given the opportunity. I then moved to Themis Associates, a full service law firm, which gave me the jump start I needed. Themis introduced me to the nuances of corporate law, and gave me hands-on experience on how the system really works.

    After spending nearly three years in Themis, I moved to Khaitan & Co., which again, opened up abundant opportunities for me to explore and learn. When I look back, I see that my five years of law (though filled with a lot of fun) were fairly monotonous. For instance, every year I followed a fixed routine: classes, co-curricular activities, work, tests, and friends. The past five years of my ‘professional life’ have been a whirlwind of sorts. There has been so much activity and learning that I’ve hardly found time to pause and think about how much has changed. To me, the transition has been all about being laid-back in college, to becoming extremely fast-paced (while learning on the job) at work. Corporate law has over anything else taught me the importance of time and how fast months roll into years.

    Tell us about your early professional experiences Themis Associates. 

    Since I had a very minor stint as a litigant, for all purposes, my job at Themis Associates was pretty much my first big job. I spent close to three years at Themis and was given several opportunities to understand law, and find different ways to excel. When I joined Themis back in 2012, I had very little understanding of corporate law, and found it very difficult to draft basic documents. I still remember working on my first due-diligence and being rebuked by my immediate senior for my ‘abysmal’ work. To make things worse, back when I had just started working, I thought that the ‘main objects’ of a company was its mission statement – and not something that is crystallized in its charter documents. Some smartness, no?

    As I progressed though, week by week, month by month, the more assignments I was given (and the more number of times I was berated for my work), the better my understanding of law became. At Themis, I was a part of the firm’s transaction advisory team as well as the compliance team. Being a part of the transaction advisory team, I had the opportunity of advising funds and companies on various rounds of investment. In the compliance practice, I was part of a team which created 360 degree compliance structures for companies across sectors including healthcare, FMCG, and e-commerce. Given the diversity of my profile at Themis, I was taught that there is absolutely no substitute for hard work – and to be able to create a difference, one must learn how to work smart. This apart, through Themis, I also ended up meeting some of my closest friends, each of whom are today, very well settled in their respective areas of practice.

     

    On what parameters do you choose the projects you work on? 

    I have never been picky about the projects I work on. To me, it is very important to be practice agnostic and make an attempt in doing anything and everything that comes your way. In my five years of practice, I have managed to gain some experience or the other across both ends of the spectrum. At both Themis and Khaitan, I have been very flexible in terms of assignments and have never quite complained about the kind of work I have been handed over. Since the very beginning of my career, I have wanted to be a generalist without consciously building my practice around a specific body of work.

    As a part of Khaitan’s Securities, Capital Markets, and Corporate practice, I have been involved in initial public offerings, qualified institutional placements, and offshore bond issuances in various capacities. In these transactions, I have typically represented the issuer, the book running lead managers, and / or the selling shareholders. This apart, my role also entails providing regulatory and general corporate advisory on regulations issued by the Securities and Exchange Board of India, foreign exchange regulations, and other regulatory authorities. In the corporate space, at Khaitan, I have been involved in advising on venture capital and private equity investments, as well as court convened mergers and amalgamations. I also have a penchant for employment laws. Given this, I have had ample opportunities at Khaitan to advise on various employment related matters.

     

    Tell us about how you developed a passion for writing.

    Like I mentioned earlier, I have always enjoyed writing. My book, Piece of Mind – Pun Intended was released way back in 2013 and I took to writing it because I have always wanted to be identified as a writer. Very honestly, I drew inspiration from the banality of my own life, and decided that it was important to achieve something out of the ordinary, at the time when I had ample time and an abundance of opportunity. I started writing the book some time in my final year of college. It took me about seven months to come up with a concrete idea and about a month to execute it. Though it has been about five years since I wrote and published the book, I have very fond memories of the entire process.

     

    What are the challenges and learning opportunities that you were faced with in writing this book?

    I came across two major challenges while writing and publishing the book. My first major challenge was ensuring that the book was well-edited. Finding an editor to read my book and share meaningful insights on the language and grammar was a herculean task. My second major challenge was finding a good publisher. Fortunately for me, my publishers were very enthusiastic about my book and provided me with all the support I needed.

    There are several authors who have inspired me. While I do enjoy fiction, I have been deeply inclined to philosophy. I have found extraordinary inspiration in the writing of authors such as Albert Camus, Ayn Rand, Jean-Paul Sartre, and Ernest Hemmingway. I recollect Sartre having once said, “everything has been figured out, except how to live”. Back when I wrote it, my book was my personal attempt at figuring out how my life should be, and what I need from it. The proficiency and composition came with aligning my thoughts and finding the right words to express myself. I spent about seven months to come up with the idea because my thoughts were scattered and I had absolutely no idea about where to begin and where to end. The moment I managed to have my thoughts in place, I had the flow in control and the book came along.

     

    Could you tell us about your experience participating and going on to win the reality show on MTV called On the Job 2?

    Back in college I worked part-time with a local cable operator in Mangalore as a news anchor for extra pocket money. Hoping that this experience would help, I auditioned for ‘MTV On the Job – 2’ when I was in my second year, in the year 2008. The show, focused on showcasing off-beat careers such as journalism and radio-jockeying had contestants being pitted against each other. As a part of my challenge, I was given an assignment with Headlines Today (now India Today), where I had to read news, live on-air (or so told), and face real time challenges. While I was on-air, my teleprompter went off and when I was asked to break the news of UFOs being cited – I said ‘aliens were going to take over the earth in some time’. After what all my friends referred to as a ‘comedy of errors’, I, along with another contestant ended up winning the show. A good takeaway from participating in the show was an internship programme with Headlines Today.

     

    What are the social causes you feel strongly about? 

    Back in college, I was involved with two organisations for most part. Firstly, I was involved with a home for the elderly called ‘Vishwas Trust’. At Vishwas, I had the opportunity of setting up a helpline and day care centre for geriatric patients suffering from Alzheimer’s disease. Given that my mother too was an enthusiastic social worker, I was given a freehand in organising various programmes to raise awareness on Alzheimer’s disease and means, using which, such illnesses can be treated. This apart, I was also involved with Make a Difference, an organisation which aims at imparting education to children who live in street shelters. Since I had ample time back in college, I always found it easy to involve myself with some social cause or the other.

    Since I began work, I haven’t quite had the time to personally involve myself entirely with social work. However, I vicariously support a few organisations such as the ‘Deepika Centre’, a school for special children in Bangalore, and IDIA.

     

    Where would you like your career to take you five years down the line?

    A friend once told me that you can’t have it all. But to me, life has always been about achieving it all no matter what it takes. Personally, I don’t believe in long term goals and rather believe in taking in one day at a time. This policy has helped me well, and I have complete faith that it will continue to lead me on in my journey of life. As for where I see myself five years from now – I hope, on a holiday at one of the Caribbean islands.

     

  • Badrinath Srinivasan, Executive, BHEL, on interning at ONGC, and working with PSUs

    Badrinath Srinivasan, Executive, BHEL, on interning at ONGC, and working with PSUs

    Badrinath Srinivasan graduated from SDM Law College, Mangalore, in 2006. Thereafter he pursued an LL.M from WBNUJS, Kolkata. After graduating from WBNUJS he joined Gujarat State Petroleum Corporation Ltd. as a Senior Officer in the legal team. Later in 2010, he switched over to Bharat Heavy Electricals Limited.

     

    In this interview we speak to him about:

    • His time at NUJS
    • Working at PSUs
    • His diverse experience

    What brought you into legal studies?

    During my school days, I found that I was very good in and was comfortable with social sciences. I used to watch my uncle going to the Madras High Court every day and was probably inspired by him to join law.

    Many of my relatives from my mother’s side are lawyers. So I did not face any opposition to legal education, although Law as a profession was new to my parents. Even so, they left the choice to me. My elder brother advised me to choose the science stream in my 11th standard. His advice was very prudent considering that I could always take up law even if I chose Science but I would not be able to choose to do Engineering or Medicine if I took up Commerce or Arts in my 11th standard.

    The advice proved very helpful at work as the companies I have worked so far have predominantly been Engineering companies and there have been lots of disputes involving technical matters. It has been relatively easy for me to understand these technical aspects and even research a lot on such aspects considering my background in Science. I am perhaps lucky to have such supportive parents and brother.

     

    What do you have to say about the supposed ‘elite’ tag attached to certain law schools?

    I graduated from SDM Law College, Mangalore which is a “Traditional Law School”. I did perform well there. The faculty members and the library staff were extremely supportive. I did my LL.M. from NUJS, Kolkata and therefore I have the experience of studying in a Law School as well. Having been a part of both worlds, I find that following are the limitations in a Traditional Law School:

    1. Infrastructure- No Westlaw, Manupatra or other legal databases although the library at SDM Law College was awesome.
    2. Lack of a competitive environment.
    3. Lack of exposure- In all my five years of law school, I did an internship, did not even read a single judgement in full or a law review article. I hardly participated in moot court competitions. I never realized there was more to Law than a University rank.
    4. Exposure to Social Sciences- In a Traditional Law School, exposure to social sciences was minimal. Although we studied several social sciences subjects such as history, economics, sociology, there was no rigorous way in which these courses were taught. So we hardly studied these in the way it should be. Classes on these were rather bookish and uninteresting. But the way in which the social sciences were taught in NUJS were extremely refreshing. We had a paper in LL.M. on Law and Social Transformation and there was lot of social sciences in Jurisprudence. In fact, we invited a faculty member who taught Economics for undergraduates to take up Law and Economics in our LL.M. course. These were really great.

     

    There are some benefits of studying in a traditional law school as well. The most important benefit is a better understanding of the society. We had compulsory a legal aid activity in my college at Mangalore where we visited villages nearby to understand the legal issues/ problems people faced. Also, our class consisted of students from diverse backgrounds. The most important quality that I saw among students was humility.

     

    Being from a non-NLU did you find it disadvantageous to establish a well-grounded career?

    No. There were no problems at all. Although working in a law firm was not something I wanted, I am not sure if getting into a law firm after my LL.M. at NUJS would have been an easy task.

     

    Why did you decide to pursue LL.M from NUJS?

    After completing my LL.B., I had no strong feelings about taking a specific career path in law. I thought that I would probably become an advocate or work as a legal advisor in a company. But I was very interested in research. The idea of research appealed to me. So I wanted to do an LL.M. As regards the choice of college, I wanted to have the National Law School experience. After my 12th standard, I did write the entrance exam for NLSIU and NALSAR. With hardly any preparation, exposure or guidance, I could not get through. So I joined SDM Law College, Mangalore. So, I wanted to pursue the LLM course, and that too from NLSIU/ NUJS/ NALSAR. At that time, I had no clue about LL.M. abroad.

    During those days (2006), NUJS’ LLM Entrance used to take place in the last week of January. Therefore, I wrote the NUJS entrance exam first. I couldn’t write the NLS exam, as it coincided with my final year exams. I did write NALSAR. By the time the NALSAR results were out, my LLM classes had already started at NUJS. So I opted not to shift to NALSAR. I don’t regret those two years at NUJS- they were probably the best two years of my life.

     

    How would you describe your legal education?

    I did dream and I do dream of contributing at least a little bit to legal reform. While my UG formed the basis of understanding the law, my PG helped in understanding the theoretical aspects of law further and also taught me the methods and functions of critique. My legal education has immensely helped me in my academic endeavours.

    People often say what people study in law is totally different from what law is in practice. This is wrong. It means that they have never studied law in the first place. One hardly finds time to learn new things after beginning to work as a lawyer. So whatever we learn in law school is important. Whatever is learnt subsequently is at the cost of the client’s life, liberty or property. Therefore, it is important to learn whatever one can in the Law School. The curriculum in law school is framed such that important aspects of most of the significant laws are covered. Therefore, it is expected that many of the laws studied might not be put into use. However, these will be useful at some point or the other.

     

    How was your experience as an intern at ONGC?

    By the time I presented my dissertation and completed my LL.M. Course (March 2008) at NUJS, I had a job as a Senior Officer in the GSPC GROUP. But there were more than two months before my joining date. So I decided to intern at ONGC just to get a hang of how a government undertaking works. Also, GSPC GROUP and ONGC were both petroleum related companies.

    At ONGC, hardly any work was allotted to me. So, I had time to go through contracts and case files. I did help them out in a couple of issues concerning increase in service tax and minimum wages in the absence of a condition in the contract covering such a situation. People there were really friendly. I took that opportunity to learn a lot on Crude Oil Sale Agreement and Production Sharing Contracts and the petroleum industry. These things helped me when I started my work at GSPC GROUP. In fact, it helped me out immensely in a negotiation on COSA at GSPC. Also, even before I started working in GSPC, I knew a bit about Production Sharing Contracts and Joint Operating Agreements. So I had a lot of ammunition to impress my new boss there!

     

    What are the top three things you keep in mind while compiling a research work?

    Fortunately, I stay pretty close to my office. So I save a lot of time. Also, my interests coincide with the areas in which I deal with at BHEL.

    Three things to keep in mind while embarking on a research project:

    1. Know in detail what the problem/ issue is.
    2. Before beginning writing the paper, clearly define what you want to say vis-à-vis the problem and how you are going to approach it- structure your research
    3. Stop wasting time on writing the introduction in the beginning. Write it in the end.

    Importantly, one has to be convinced about the idea that he/ she seeks to put forth before the academic community. Another important thing is to have at least one person to review the paper, both from a readability and content perspective. For me it took an equal amount of time to read a paper and review it. Spend a lot of time reviewing the form, structure, and ideas in the paper. Before sending your work to a journal, it is important to give it for review to a faculty member or a subject expert. Also, it would be helpful if the article is read by a person who is very good in grammar. Even reputed authors commit grammatical errors.

     

    What does it take to get one’s article published in a top notch journal?

    First read the call for papers and the rules regarding publication (such as citation format, number of co-authors, type of research, etc.). Next, ask your seniors and friends whether the journal is really worth publishing in. While it is good for our ego to have publications in as many journals as possible, it is important to get our writings published in prominent journals. But it is always good to start off one’s research career by writing for a law blog or a journal that does not have extremely stringent publication standards as it is good for our confidence.

    As regards reputed journals, glance through a few articles published in the journal to get a hang of the style of writing, citation, structuring, etc. Do a comprehensive literature survey. Talk to a person well versed in the subject. Although such persons cannot substitute a thorough literature survey, they can at least tell you about writings which deal with the subject. It is possible that most of the ideas which we come up with are the ones which have already been published.

     

    How did you get the job as Senior Officer at Gujarat State Petroleum Corporation Ltd.?

    During my second year (LL.M.) at NUJS (2007-2008), we decided to invite law firms and companies to our campus for recruitment. Gujarat State Petronet Limited (GSPC GROUP), a Government of Gujarat Undertaking came to NUJS for recruiting us. Due to the efforts of the faculty advisor for Recruitment at NUJS, Mr Anirban Mazumdar, and my classmates at NUJS- Biswajit Pal, Nilanjan Banerjee, Jwala Thapa and MLS Kaarmukilan, we were able to institutionalize the recruitment process for LL.M. at NUJS. GSPC Group said they were willing to recruit LLM students. So they came to NUJS.

    If I remember correctly, there were two rounds in the recruitment. The first round had a bit of mathematics, general knowledge and psychometric tests. The second round was an interview. Since GSPC Group’s main business was Petroleum, we read a lot on petroleum laws. Also, we read a lot on current affairs in detail. At that time, the topic that was much spoken about was the subprime crises. We expected questions on the mechanics of how that happened. It really feels good when the preparation for the interview is extensive and questions come from areas which you had prepared. There was actually a question on the subprime crisis!

     

    What were your responsibilities as a Senior Officer of the Secretarial and Legal Department at ONGC?

    I was a senior officer in GSPC. I loved commercial law, specifically contracts and arbitration. My dissertation at NUJS was on arbitration law. So, the kind of work I got was drafting, negotiating and vetting contracts, handling arbitrations and litigations. Negotiating contracts was real fun, especially with foreign companies. At GSPC, we had a few huge arbitrations and it was a great learning experience there. I did learn a lot from many of the counsels at Mumbai, Delhi and Ahmedabad. I had the opportunity to be a part of the team briefing senior counsels in all these places. Overall, a great learning experience.  Thanks mostly to my boss there Mr. Sandeep Dave, Head of Secretarial and Legal Department, who is probably the best In-House lawyer I have ever known. Working under him, and that too with the excellent work profile at GSPC, is a great thing to do if a person wants to work for a PSU. The salary is not as high as it is in a Central PSU like ONGC but the salary is definitely good and the work is unbelievable.

     

    You are currently an Executive (Law) at Bharat Heavy Electricals Limited. How did the switch from ONGC take place?

    I was an intern at ONGC before joining GSPC. While I was working in GSPC, there was an open advertisement for recruitment of Law Officers. For personal reasons, it became necessary for me to shift from Gujarat to South India. So I joined BHEL.

     

    What do PSUs like ONGC and BHEL look for in prospective employees?

    Yes. It is totally different. BHEL used to select candidates through CLAT (LLM). Many of the PSUs such as IOC do select candidates through CLAT. Some PSUs like ONGC, GSPC go for campus recruitment. It is important for the Campus Recruitment Committee (by whatever name you call it) to approach them well in advance (through all means of communication, including visiting them personally if required). I have worked in three PSUs and have heard a lot about other PSUs. The best place to learn is in GSPC under Mr. Sandeep Dave. You’d get to negotiate international contracts worth millions of dollars there if you are really good at what you do. To be honest, the salary is not as much as you’d earn in a Central PSU but the learning is definitely worth it.

     

    Does BHEL take interns?

    Yes, but BHEL rarely takes law interns.

     

    What are your long term objectives?

    In five years, I wish to learn a bit about engineering, finance, economics and statistics. In the long term, I would love to be involved a lot more in arbitration and teach law.

     

    What would be your advice to young law students who wish to join a PSU?

    Lots of your time will be spent on obtaining administrative approvals and justifications from the authorities. One should not get bogged down by paper work as these actually are necessary for accountability reasons. There are two areas in which a lawyer can contribute immensely in a PSU:

    1. There is a great scope for reforming existing practices
    2. Quick decision making.

    While apt legal advice is extremely important in a PSU, aiding quick decision making is more important.