Super Lawyer

Tag: Senior

  • “Every case brings a lot of challenges and to bring relief to the client is a most challenging assignment for any lawyer”-Senior Advocate Manish Vashisht

    “Every case brings a lot of challenges and to bring relief to the client is a most challenging assignment for any lawyer”-Senior Advocate Manish Vashisht

    This interview has been published by Priyanka Karwa and The SuperLawyer Team

    Sir, in order to start our conversation, kindly let us know about your decision to pursue law as a career.

    Even though you have asked me about my “decision” about choosing law as a career, however, it is my firm belief that there is nothing which we decide to do but destiny plays an important role in what we do! Coming back to your question I may say that ;

    I decided to pursue law while I was in my first year of graduation in the year 1991. I did my graduation from the Govt Arts and commerce College Indore. My father initially wanted me to become an engineer but I was fond of reading and writing . Maths and physics were not my cup of tea. Sociology, Political Science and History were my forte . Studying about society and political system enhanced my skills in analysing various aspects of human behaviour. In depth study of the subjects helped me in clearing the entrance examination of law course of Delhi university in 1994 . I completed my law course in 1997 and thereafter joined the chamber of Mr LR Gupta, senior Advocate who was a distinguished civil lawyer . That’s the initial journey of my life which started in 1974 , followed by my admission in Bal Bharti Public school.

    Being a senior Advocate, how would you explain the changes which have taken place in our judicial system over the time and if any, kindly express your views upon the same.

    Our judicial system is indeed a dynamic one . When I started my career in 1998 a system was placed for the new entrants to complete a six months training programme , for those who wanted to appear for judicial services they were required to undergo a couple of years of training under an advocate. Gradually these programmes were changed. Many people would have different opinions on the practices and the systems which were in place but my personal opinion is that training under the lawyers was a good initiative. It is indeed very necessary to understand and to become acquainted with the working process before one starts his or her career as an advocate or a judge . Judicial academies have been set up in the country and the training which is imparted now is one of the best . Young judges meet many legal experts and jurists as a part of their training. I have traveled and have appeared before many courts in India . Undoubtedly the courts and Tribunals in Delhi have an edge in comparison to other courts in different states of India but we all have noticed that due to infuse of technology justice dispensation is becoming quick and easy. I am sure in next couple of years we shall all see many a new innovations being introduced with an objective to ease the grant of justice to those who approach courts for redressal of their problems and grievances. 

    Sir we would like to know about that one case you can never forget.

    It’s indeed very difficult to answer which case is difficult to forget . Every case brings a lot of challenges and to bring relief to the client is a most challenging assignment for any lawyer . I have appeared for clients while representing their cause in different areas of law. Yet I remember that I was able to secure an acquittal of an engineer somewhere in the year 2014 who was convicted of murder by the sessions court by misreading of the factual aspects and erroneous application of legal provisions and the evidence. The  young man had to undergo rigorous imprisonment for a period of seven years even though charges could hardly be proved against him . False evidence was created and witnesses were planted against him . That is certainly a case I remember . 

    Kindly throw some light upon your initial days as a young lawyers and the challenges faced by you.

    Initial years were full of learning and hard work. My father late Shri Inder Kumar Sharma played a huge role in my success . He was a learned man who excelled in the field of administration but he always remained humble and treated everyone with affection and kindness. This character is extremely essential for anyone to become a successful person. I have always tried to follow the traits of my father. I was extremely lucky during my early years of practice to have worked with some fine senior lawyers . I learnt a lot from them for which I shall ever be greatfull . I fondly remember my senior Mr LR Gupta who was extremely kind to me and always blessed me .  

    Please tell our viewers about your daily routine which helps you maintain the work life balance.

    My routine includes a brisk walk / cycling for around an hour . Fit mind is very essential for any professional. One must spend time with nature. I also make it a point to have a sound sleep for atleast 6 hours a day. Rest of the time must be spent in preparing cases , reading newspaper and to keep yourself updated. I read and note in my register important cases and I am maintaining this habit of writing since the year 2000. 

    Sir, while looking at your profile we read your article named “Unfounded prejudices shouldn’t be allowed to damage independence and esteem of the judiciary”, please tell our audience about the same.

    The article was written by me not to defend someone or to accuse someone . The same reflected my point of view which is clear from the reading of the article itself . I can’t add anything to it except to say that normal human conduct and human nature gives a clear indication of many a facets of life and turn of events . 

    Lastly, any advice you would give to the professionals in the legal field?

    The youngsters are smart and intelligent. They think better than us and have many new ways to approach towards a problem for an effective solution. The legal profession is such that it keeps one mind active. I will just like to add that any young lawyer who wants to join the litigation must remember few things to start with . Work with a good lawyer for at least 2-3 years . This period is sufficient to understand the procedures of courts. Develop good habit of listening. It adds to your advantage and many a times a good listener will be in a better position to answer the questions which may be posed by the judges. Respect your seniors and learn from your colleagues who appear for the opposite side . Never loose heart if you loose a case . No one can win hundred percent and therefore no one can loose constantly. Develop the habit of reading . Read files carefully. Read at least one or two reported judgments daily and try to keep a note of those . Never run after money . Since we all are lucky to be in an intelligent profession with time finances are never a concern . Behave properly and dress up smartly. The judges takes a note of appearance also. One should always be smartly dressed. While appearing in a matter with your senior colleague ask him / her questions which may come to your mind well before the hearing . This will make your senior glad as well and it goes without saying you will win a case for the client.

    Get in touch with Manish Vashisht

  • Pinky Anand, Additional Solicitor General of India, on studying at Delhi University and at Harvard, and on the formative years of her career

    Pinky Anand, Additional Solicitor General of India, on studying at Delhi University and at Harvard, and on the formative years of her career

    Dr. Pinky Anand is considered one of India’s top lawyers. She is the current Additional Solicitor General of India and a Senior Advocate. An alumna of the Campus Law Centre at Delhi University, she went on to pursue her LL.M from the prestigious Harvard University on an Inlaks scholarship in 1980. She recently came out with the much acclaimed book, Trials of Truth which is available on Amazon. In conversation with Manushi Desai, she shares her experience as a lawyer and the formative years.

     

    How were the formative years which resulted in such a strong yet warm personality?

    My parents were married very young. My mother’s sensible nature has rubbed on me and so has my joint family’s sharing and caring nature. I have grown up in the streets of Old Delhi and have fond memories of sharing everything with my family which is my support system and I greatly believe in the idea of balance which my family taught me. I further studied in a convent school and the values of discipline and good virtues were inculcated very firmly in my outlook. I endeavoured to participate in all extra curriculars, especially during the law faculty days where I was the student leader within BJP as well.

     

    How was your Harvard experience?

    It was an ambition to go to Harvard and I achieved it by providing a systematic approach. I was inspired by the movie Paper Chase based on Harvard. I applied for Rhodes actually, I did not get the Rhodes, however, the Rhodes committee recommended me to the Inlaks foundation and that’s how I got into Harvard. Years later, I was called back to Harvard to give a lecture which is when I stumbled across my thesis in the Harvard library archives which is a must read even now to know more about the concept of public policy in arbitration.

     

    How were the initial years as a lawyer?

    I am a first generation lawyer. After marriage, circumstances were different since my husband is a lawyer, my father in law is a lawyer, but the intial years were not the same. I did not have any benevolent hand in that sense which is quite a necessary part. However, I did not have as bad a struggle as I should have is because my friend Geeta Luthra, who is a senior advocate now and I started practice together. It was very unknown of women partnering with each other in the profession.

     

    How did you join politics?

    My tryst with politics started when I joined ABVP as a law student and contested the prestigious Delhi University Students Union (DUSU) elections. However, when I went to Harvard and later partnered with Ms. Geeta Luthra, politics took a back seat. This changed later when I headed the BJP National Legal Cell as the first woman convenor which gave me a chance to change people at a grassroot level.

     

    You have risen high in your domain and have even been named as India’s top influential women in a book. How was the struggle been?

    The principle struggle is not being a part of the old Boy’s club. There is also a prejudice against engaging women counsels. However, beyond a point when you prove yourself, you actually were acknowledged. You have to continue to be twice a man. So the demonstration effect and the visibility or your proving your mettle is something which has to be done at the first degree level. Having done that, you need to have people who kind of support you. My family is a very big support, my in-laws are very supportive and I think that’s a very important feature too, because professional life is a tough one.

     

    What was the tipping point in your career?

    I fondly state my tipping point to be the retainership we had from a Marwadi business group through which I got exposure to various kinds of cases. It proved that you learn far more on your feet than you learn from any text book. We got a wide exposure to wide variety of cases from that group not only in Delhi, but in various parts of Delhi. We used to go to various even district courts and in fact I think even trial courts.

     

    Why practice in trial courts when you could, as a Harvard graduate, have easily started in the Delhi High Court or Supreme Court?

    Trial courts are great fun! I think you learn the most there and you have to understand the set up of what law is about and how law is made. For young lawyers, you are trusted far more with the trial court cases than you are with Higher Court cases- so it was a relation you build- you go up the ladder. The ladder is a very slow one, like snakes and ladders – you go up and then you sometimes come down.

     

    What is the secret sauce to your success?

    I believe in confidence and determination apart from the support of your loved ones. There is constant juggling of the work life balance but it is important to set goals and challenges and strive to achieve them as well.

     

     

    This interview was taken by Manushi Satyajeet Desai. Do read her blog at desaimanushi.blogspot.in and follow her on @manushidesai on twitter and instagram.

  • Sanjay Hegde, Senior Advocate, on building a legal practice, arguing on landmark cases and on legal journalism

    Sanjay Hegde, Senior Advocate, on building a legal practice, arguing on landmark cases and on legal journalism

    Mr. Sanjay R Hegde, is a Senior Advocate at the Supreme Court of India. He began his illustrious career back in 1989 while working as a lawyer with M/s Mulla & Mulla & Craigie Blunt & Caroe Solicitors. He gained his LL.M while at work and thereafter moved to Delhi to practice in the Supreme Court in the Chambers of Senior Advocate Mr. G. Ramaswamy. During this period he worked on several high profile cases, appeared for the Government of Indian before an international arbitral tribunal and from 1996 to 2004 was on the Union of India’s arguing panel before the Supreme Court. He also worked for a decade as the Advocate on Record for the State of Karnataka and thereafter focused on private practice. He has frequently engaged in legal journalism including appearing on television panels and writing as a columnist for newspapers.

    In this interview, he talks to us about:

    • His career choices and the reasoning behind them.
    • His experiences in the various roles and offices he has assumed over the years.
    • His opinions on miscellaneous topics – the importance of mooting and writing for students, ADR in International Law and legal journalism.
    • His advice to law students while studying, practicing and moulding their careers.

     

    Please elaborate on the motivating factors which helped you in choosing legal studies.

    I assume you mean, why did I decide to study law? Well, in our days, choosing a career in law, was not a matter of choice but circumstance. Often one did not set out to become a lawyer, but did drift into the profession after exhausting most other avenues. My father was a lawyer as was his uncle and grand-uncle. So as the first of five children, of a not very successful lawyer, a legal career, while available was not necessarily a first choice. I did law, while working in a computer company and studying for the civil services examination. I also did an LL.M simultaneously while working with Mulla & Mulla.

     

    Please tell us about how you decided to pursue litigation. Were you considering any other opportunities?

    I got selected by the UPSC for a non-IAS service, which I kept on hold for a couple of years, while I started out in the Supreme Court with the then attorney general Mr.G.Ramaswamy who was my guru in court-craft. I had been a debater and a quizzer in my times, so a quiet life behind my desk in a solicitor’s firm (that’s what we called corporate law then), did not appeal to me. It had to be courtrooms or nothing in my case.

     

    How were your years in college? Did your study prepare you in any way for real-life practice in Courts?

    When I see kids in law schools these days (my son included), prepare so hard with presentations and papers, I am reminded of how little I did in college. I did spend good time in my law college in Bombay (K.C.Law) making friends and eating sandwiches from Ramesh Sandwichwala. My life as a law student, was evening classes after work in my computer company’s administrative job. I attended classes which had good teachers and neglected other subjects. I passed the examinations with undistinguished marks and often found that I scored badly in subjects which I knew well by studying original texts. In those days, examiners had got used to answers mugged up from guides (three test papers) and original stuff may have fazed some of them. Suffice to say, the course did not prepare me for life in court, but I did learn a bit by tagging along with my father and his friends.

     

    What should a law student do, in your opinion, to shape up his profile for litigation?

    Practice simple things like public speaking and elocution. You would be surprised to see how badly some people express themselves in court, and how judges are grateful to any lawyer who can clearly state the problem, before attempting to persuade them to his side. Some experience of dramatics and the stage are also useful. Both Kapil Sibal and Rajeev Dhavan, had experience in theatre which went a long way towards making a courtroom presence.

     

    How important do you think Mooting and Academic Writing are for a Law Student aspiring to become an Advocate?

    Both are very important. Mooting helps you deconstruct issues, prepare memorials and briefs and present them to trained minds. Writing is even more important. An ability to clearly express oneself in writing, in simple sentences, is the hallmark of a good mind. While taking people on board, I am more likely to choose, someone who can give me a quick written note, than someone who can turn a wonderful phrase in conversation.

     

    After your enrolment at the Bar in 1989, you worked in Mumbai for a period of three years. How did these formative years mould you as a lawyer?

    They taught me about handling corporate client problems, and how to turn around work reasonably quickly. More importantly they taught me the value of friends in the profession and the constant peer-review that always accompanies life at the bar.

     

    You have a rich experience of working under Mr. G Ramaswamy, Senior Advocate and former Attorney General. You have also assisted several distinguished Senior Advocates at the Supreme Court. Please tell us about your work under them.

    Each senior advocate addressing the court, is essentially a performing artiste. At the end of the day, he is not so much concerned with the judgment which is the judge’s job. He is concerned that his performance was the best that could be summoned from within him and that it best expressed all the points in his client’s favour. Mr Ramaswamy had an amazing depth of knowledge and experience, which enabled him with a bare instruction on facts, to argue for hours and place a case in its entire legal perspective. He had the ability to hear a whispered phrase as an instruction from the advocate by his side, and to know exactly what was meant and what needed to be said. In other words, an amazing pickup on the fly. I find the same ability in Sibal and Rohatgi, as well as Salve and Fali Nariman. The latter two also share the breadth of learning that GR had, and Mr Nariman particularly is almost oracular in his wisdom. Among the others I have instructed Mr Sorabjee, stands out for his ability to hit all the right notes without making it seem too heavy, Mr Ashok Desai’s ability to paint a picture and scrap through to a conclusion without angering anyone is a gift to be envied. The late Goolam Vahanvati must be mentioned for his understated, efficient manner of delivery and his incredible ability to turn around written submissions and pleadings in a very short time.

     

    Many students aspire to practice at the Supreme Court and High Courts. Should a student first practise at the Trial Court to learn the nuances, or is it fine to start at a High Court itself?

    I’d say go wherever there is enough work to keep you occupied. Do not get hung up because you hang around the superior courts, do not feel low in the lower courts. A good grounding in the trial courts, stands you in good stead thereafter. Mr Ramaswamy spent 11 years in the trial courts before moving to the Madras High Court and his base in civil and criminal law, gave him an advantage over his peers who had been appellate court lawyers throughout.

     

    What are the differences that you see between a practice in a High Court and a practice in the Supreme Court?

    The Supreme Court has greater turnover and greater mortality. In the Supreme Court, you prepare a lot, only to see it destroyed in a two minute performance. High courts are more relaxed but more time consuming.

     

    What is your opinion on the recent judgement of the Supreme Court which upheld the ‘Collegium’ system?

    (Mr Hegde had appeared for Union of India In Re: Special Reference 1 of 1998 i.e. The Third Judges’ Appointment Case).

    I did assist Mr Sorabjee the attorney general in the Third Judges case. That judgment and the current one, all revolve around independence of the judiciary. Can we have independent judges, if their appointments are made by politicians? The court is part of the political system in a manner of speaking, how far can you keep routine politics away. Has insulating judges, resulted in the creation of a self-perpetuating jurocracy? My personal opinion is that the striking down of the NJAC, is a good blow for judicial independence, especially in an era of majoritarian politics.

     

    How effective, in your opinion, are Alternative Dispute Resolution mechanisms in International Law?

    (Mr Hegde has appeared before an International Arbitral Tribunal for the Union of India.)

    Well my case was the Government versus Suzuki Motor Corporation which was essentially a private contractual dispute. But in public international law, in the absence of pre-decided judicial forums, alternate dispute resolutions are often the only options available.

     

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    Could you elaborate on your experiences as an AOR for Government of Karnataka?

    (Mr Hegde has been an Advocate-on-Record for the Government of Karnataka at the Supreme Court for a period of ten years, during which he handled many sensational and landmark cases, like the Kaveri and Krishna Water Disputes, Rajkumar Kidnapping case, Swami Shraddhananda case etc.)

    It was personally exhausting, tough and immensely educative all at once. As long as one was not bothered about being adequately paid for the effort, working for the state made me the all-round lawyer that I am. I learnt Criminal law and indirect taxation on the job. A wealth of memories include a chief minister being hauled up for contempt, a chief secretary’s perjury prosecution being stayed, a godman or two being kept in jail for a long period of time. I remember early on Rajkumar being kidnapped and the state preparing to release his associates, till Justice Bharucha yelled, “If you can’t govern constitutionally, then quit”. A few years after the incident, some of the same associates, got death sentences in appeal, where the TADA court had given life imprisonment. So many memories require a book and not a question.

     

    Other than the Supreme Court, you have appeared before various fora, how is a practice before these Tribunals different? What is your opinion on “Tribunalisation”?

    (Mr. Hegde has appeared before many such tribunals as CESTAT, TDSAT and NGT.)

    Tribunals are more specialised areas and often the monetary impact is much heavier than normal courts. I do think that tribunalisation is the way to go, though courts have increasingly frequent misgivings. After all judges can’t know everything about complicated technical decisions, but experts in these fields can make decisions if judicial members control the fairness of the process.

     

    You are a designated Senior Advocate of the Supreme Court of India. How is the life of a Senior Advocate different from a normal Advocate? How do you manage the responsibility?

    A senior advocate is a bit like a taxi for hire, for day and date only. If the ride is not smooth he is unlikely to be hired again. But flippancy apart, the biggest responsibility is to give the client and the briefing lawyer, a pre-view of how the case is likely to be appear to the eyes of a judge. A good senior will in all probability leave you with a forecast of how the game will play out in the court and should advise you on your best options, including the negotiating of a settlement if one is possible. Unfortunately people come to seniors at the last minute to try for a win but not for the available reasonable option, of a realistic assessment of their chances in court.

     

    You are a well-known newspaper columnist and Television Panelist on pressing legal issues. What, in your opinion, is the future of legal journalism as a career, for aspiring people?

    There is a great demand for people who can decode legal processes and put it in simple terms that an ordinary viewer or reader can understand. We still have to develop a culture of great legal reporters in the mould of an Adam Liptak, a Joshua Rozenburg or a Dahlia Lithwick. Indian reporters, out of fear of contempt laws, often tend to get into bare bones reporting of fact, without too much accompanying analysis.

     

    Students tend to take up plush Corporate Firm jobs, as they find the prospect of an initial struggle at the Bar scary. What would be your message to them?

    They are right to choose whatever makes them comfortable. After all many of them are first generation lawyers, who have spent fortunes on their education and need to start earning as soon as possible. However a law school must provide you with the ability to make decisions and see them through to fruition. If litigation is your thing stick by it, keep working away, offer your services free if needed, to lawyers who are too busy or too tired to attend hearings. If you keep pegging away, cracks will appear in seemingly closed doors and you will make it. Keep going without getting disappointed or turning to drinks and the like, and you will find your niche from which to grow.

     

    What advice would like to share with our readers who are mostly young lawyers and law students?

    Be curious, read a lot, keep writing from time to time, but argue everything, every time, even if it is within yourself. For a lawyer, the unargued life is not worth living. Have fun and stay within the boundaries of truth. The world will accept you and find a use for you.

     

     

    This interview was taken by: Shreesha Kailankaje, IV year, GNLU, Gandhinagar

  • Huzefa Ahmadi, Senior Advocate, Supreme Court, on an illustrious career in litigation and work experience at Magic Circle

    Huzefa Ahmadi, Senior Advocate, Supreme Court, on an illustrious career in litigation and work experience at Magic Circle

    Huzefa A. Ahmadi graduated from Law Center-II, University of Delhi. He joined the Bar Council of Delhi on 6th September ’91 and started litigating before High Courts and Tribunals. He briefly went abroad and worked with Clifford Chance on a work experience placement.

    Huzefa came back to join litigation in India. He practices before the Supreme Court of India in matters concerning Constitutional Law, Administrative Law, Tax, Civil and Criminal Law. A third generation lawyer, law came naturally to him and he never considered any alternate career choices at all. Huzefa has been designated as a Senior Advocate in November, 2012.

    In this interview, he talks to SuperLawyer about:

    • Being influenced by his father, who retired as the Chief Justice of India
    • Experience as a law student at Delhi University in the early 1990s
    • Importance and minimum requirement for the designation of Senior Counsel
    • Entry of foreign law firms in India and its impact upon Indian lawyers

     

    When did you get inclined towards law?Tell us a bit about your family.

    I had decided to do law while I was doing my graduation. I am a third generation lawyer. My grandfather was a judge in the subordinate judiciary under the erstwhile State of Bombay. My father retired as Chief Justice of India.

     

    Did your father motivate you to pursue law? How did you come to study law?

    My father did not try to influence my decision as to the vocation I would like to pursue. In hindsight, I feel that my lineage did subconsciously goad me to take up law.

     

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    Which stream did you pursue your basic graduation in? Was the five-year course available to you?

    The five-year course was not introduced when I studied law. I did my B.A. with Psychology. I had no other plans but worked for a short time with HCL and sold computers for some extra pocket money.

     

    How was the environment in Delhi University in the early ’90s? What student activities were you a part of? How about internships?

    I did my law at the Evening Centre at Mandir Marg (CLC-II). Some professors were good but overall the course was neglected. You required an upper second in graduation to get into the law course. There weren’t too many student activities happening at the Evening Centre but classes were frequently disrupted by union activities. Most students were in Government service or over 40 years of age and did not seem interested in active practice of law.

    Internships weren’t introduced at that point of time. Internships now help in getting a broader insight of the profession. A lot depends on how keen the intern is towards the profession.

     

    Could you tell our readers about the first time that you appeared in court?

    (Huzefa began practicing at various High Courts and Tribunals soon after graduation)

    You always get a mixed bag of judges. Some were very helpful to young lawyers. I was fortunate to be in a chamber where I got a lot of opportunities to argue cases. My first appearance was before the C.A.T. where I argued the case of an Excise Superintendent against whom there was a disciplinary proceeding.

     

    Who were your mentors?

    Mr. M. Chandrasekharan, Senior Advocate and Mr. Maheshwer Dayal, Senior Advocate were my mentors in my initial days of practice. I was also inspired by my mother and father whose advice and guidance served as a beacon of light in the profession.

     

    Did you ever have any other plans other than litigation? What are your views on LL.M.? Do you think Indian Legal Education needs to improve?

    I never had any alternative plans.

    I think LL.M. helps in building a jurisprudential base. Legal education needs to improve at the middling level. There is a huge gap between the five-year courses and others.

     

    How did you get to work at a Magic Circle firm? When did you decide to come back to India?

    (Huzefa worked at Clifford Chance on a work experience placement)

    There was some work that I had done in India which led to my joining them on a work experience placement. The exposure was good as I saw the scale and expanse of an international law firm. I returned because I wanted to practice litigation in India and did not want to work with a corporate law firm.

     

    How does one become a Senior Advocate? Is there a lot of work owing to the designation?

    (Huzefa was designated as a Senior Advocate by the Supreme Court of India in 2012)

    It is necessary that you practice purely as a counsel at least for about 5-7 years before you apply to be a Senior Counsel. Designation can sometimes be a boon and sometimes a curse. If you are not up to it and aren’t briefed for the strangest of reasons you will be without work. As a Senior Advocate you get very less time to prepare as you are invariably briefed on the previous day.

     

    What are your views on the possibility of foreign law firms entering the Indian market?

    I think they should be allowed to enter but on a reciprocal basis. Their entry will ensure better terms for young lawyers.

     

    What would be your message and advice for our readers?

    Work hard and stay focussed on the profession. Have a hobby and other interests because there may be long periods of time when you may not have work despite doing your best.

     

     

  • V. Mohana, Senior Advocate, Supreme Court of India, on the AOR exam, life in litigation and role of a Senior Counsel

    V. Mohana, Senior Advocate, Supreme Court of India, on the AOR exam, life in litigation and role of a Senior Counsel

    V. Mohana graduated from Coimbatore Law College (now GLC, Coimbatore) in 1988, India’s first batch of the five year law course. She joined the chambers of Mr. M. Panchapakesan as a junior after graduation, where she had also interned in her final year. Thereafter, she moved to New Delhi and worked with Ms. Indu Malhotra and Mr. C.S. Vaidyanathan, enriching her expertise in litigation. After successfully passing the Advocate on Record examination in 1996, she has been practising independently in the Supreme Court, Delhi High Court, National Consumer Commission, etc.

    She has worked on matters with eminent seniors like Mr. Kapil Sibal, Mr. K.K. Venugopal, Mr. P. Chidambaram, Mr. Arun Jaitley, Mr. T. Andhyarujina, et al. She was also a Panel Lawyer for the Government of India. She was designated as a Senior Advocate by the Full Court of the Supreme Court of India on 23rd April, 2015.

    In this interview, she talks about:

    • Being a first generation lawyer: college life, internships and interest in litigation
    • Moving to New Delhi and establishing her practice
    • Cracking the Supreme Court Advocate on Record examination
    • Her wide range of practice encompassing various courts, tribunals and as a Panel Lawyer
    • Being one of the few women Senior Advocates of the Supreme Court

     

    Please introduce yourself to our readers. Were you always interested in pursuing law? Are there any lawyers in your family who motivated you to join law school?

    I am a first generation lawyer, and I have been practicing for the past 27 years. From my school days, I was interested in debating, public speaking, theatre etc. I took an interest in law during my higher secondary education. The sole credit behind my motivation to do law goes to my Mother. There were no lawyers in our family until I finished law. Now there are more than three, and a few more in the making.

    You are a student of the very first batch of the five year integrated law course, introduced for the very first time in India. We would love to know about your college. Was there any confusion/mismanagement, considering it was a new concept?

    Yes, I belong to the very first batch (1983-88) of the 5-Year integrated law course after higher secondary, introduced for the very first time in India in the year 1983. Our college those days (Coimbatore Law College, Bharatiar University, Tamil Nadu) was run in a rented premises. There were very few classrooms during the first year since we were the only batch and the rest of them were three year law students. We had a small library and a very small room for sports activities.

    Our syllabus was structured similar to the present syllabus, but it was not very detailed. We also studied subjects like Sociology, Economics, Legal History, History and Legal Language & Legal Writing etc. during the first two years. The rest of the three years we had subjects like Family Law, Transfer of Property, Constitutional Law, Income Tax, Insolvency, IPC, Evidence Act, CPC and Cr.PC along with Drafting, Pleading and Conveyancing.

    There was no confusion or mismanagement and, of course, the infrastructure was limited. There were few teachers and we had hardly two to three classes a day and only one session either morning or afternoon. There was no hostel for girls and there were very few girls in the class.

    Were there any student activities and opportunities such as debates, moot courts et cetera? What was your typical day like? Did you also pursue any hobbies?

    There were activities and opportunities such as debates, dance competitions, quizzes, etc. which were conducted by other Arts & Science colleges in which we all participated. There were a few moot courts competitions as well that were conducted by colleges outside the city and state, so participation was difficult. Our typical day was very relaxed and had only two classes/lectures. We had a lot of free time to pursue any extra-curricular activities, but we did not have many opportunities. I was in a working women’s hostel and our timings were very restricted. I used to give tuitions for school children in my free time.

    Did you do any internships? What was the work allotted to you like?

    The concept of internships was not in vogue back then. However, we were regularly going to court in the morning since we had classes only in the afternoon. During my final year, I myself went and joined a Senior Civil Trial Lawyer Mr M. Panchapakesan who is one of the doyens in the Civil Bar in Coimbatore. After a short interview and after checking my aptitude, he agreed to take me as an intern and I started going to his office and court in the morning and after college hours. The work I was initially asked to do as an intern was to note the case diary maintained by the office clerk which reflected the entire list of cases on a day-to-day basis for the whole year. Every day we had to note down the date of the particular case in the diary and maintain it regularly so that we get ready in advance for a trial. This habit is something I follow to this day. Apart from that, my senior would dictate legal notices, plaints and written statements which would be taken down by the juniors. I was asked to re-write the same in big font with triple spacing on white sheets of paper and give it to the senior for his correction and editing. By this method, I learnt a lot about drafting and pleading. There was no concept of stenographers in our office those days. Every pleading, application and written submission used to be dictated to juniors. I got the benefit of directly taking the dictation from my senior very soon after I joined as an intern, due to the fact that I could write fast and my handwriting was legible.  I have acquired maximum advantage in profession due to this practice of taking dictation.

    How did you manage the internship with studies? How did the practical exposure compliment the theoretical knowledge imparted to you in college?

    My internship never disturbed my studies. It rather helped me in learning what was taught theoretically in college. For example, we had papers such as CPC, Cr.PC, Drafting, Pleading & Conveyancing in the final year. I feel that these papers should be taught only in the final year. Since I was going to the trial court in my final year and taking dictation in my office, I could practically learn the application of CPC, Transfer of Property, Partnership, Filing Suits, etc. due to the personal practical experience. Even today, it is that training which is helping me. The art of drafting sale deeds, lease deeds etc also helped me in my conveyancing exam.

    Did you consider pursuing higher studies after graduation? How important is it for a lawyer to go for higher studies? Were you inclined at any time, towards the civil services?

    Honestly, we could not think of pursuing higher studies after doing law. Those days, even a five year law course was a luxury and we could not afford to think of any further education, coming from a big family. It is good to go for higher studies if one can get a good scholarship or afford it. However, it is not compulsory if one is planning to do litigation in India. Of course, higher studies abroad gives you wide exposure and analytical approach so it is very helpful. I never thought of civil services at any point of time since I always wanted to practice in a court of law.

    You joined the office of Mr. M. Panchapakesan upon completion of your law degree, with whom you had interned as well. What was the scope of work?

    On completion of my law degree, I continued to work in the office of Mr M. Panchapakesan. Initially, the scope of work was the same as it used to be during my internship. Eventually, he would ask me to prepare notes for trial and involve me in discussions with clients and in taking down depositions of witnesses while it was recorded in the court room, in order to review it in the evening. We also drafted plaints in simple suits and some applications. The working hours used to be 8.00 a.m. to 8.00 p.m. He would allow us to go home on Friday evenings. On weekends we would work full days on Saturdays and half-days on Sundays. It was a pleasure working there and he would always take good care of us. All other juniors were elder to me and they would take very good care of me, being the only girl in the office. They were all like my elder brothers and till date we are in touch like a family.

    How was it to appear in the court for the first time? Can you recall any specific incident?

    It was quite comfortable for me. I was not nervous at any point of time since I have always been confident and had no stage fear even while in school. Of course, whenever my senior was likely to be present in court, I would get nervous. The courts were also very congenial even in those days. I have great respect and regards for courts and judges but I never got scared. Once, I was moving a temporary injunction with a very senior lawyer opposing me. When he was not getting his way, he started saying things like women should not be seen raising their voices in court and that their place is in the house, to which I replied by saying that if he has any point in the case he can argue and that such statements are quite immaterial to the merits of the case. The trial judge also took exception to what he said, but I never got annoyed or lost my temper. I succeeded in the case. He was a fatherly figure and a great lawyer. After a few days, he became very affectionate to me and we both developed a very cordial relationship at the Bar. I only feel that one should never lose their temper in a court of law and one should always respect one’s opponent. After all we are not fighting our personal cases!

    How did you decide to move to New Delhi? What difficulties did you face initially? Would you say Delhi provides more opportunities than any other cities?

    I was in the trial court till the summer of 1992. I had just then started getting a few cases of my own, but it was difficult for women in those days to get cases of their own, especially in small cities. At that time few of my married sisters and two elder brothers were living in Delhi and my senior advised me that if I wanted , I could try my hand in Delhi and was welcome to join him back at any time if I felt uncomfortable. At that point of time my parents also thought that since my sisters and brothers were in Delhi, it would be easier for me. I had no difficulties in Delhi, though I came very reluctantly. Through my very best friend and his contacts I joined the office of Ms. Indu Malhotra, Senior Advocate (then an Advocate-on-Record).

    Delhi provides lots of opportunities, definitely better than any other city. Because you have trial courts, high court, administrative tribunal, MRTP commission (now Competition Commission, Competition Appellate Tribunal), CESTAT, Army Tribunal, etc. and of course the Hon’ble Supreme Court of India. So there is a varied practice and scope for every field.

    How was the experience of working with Ms. Indu Malhotra? How did it feel to interact with and brief some of the best seniors of those days?

    It was a great experience working with Ms. Indu Malhotra. She was one of the busiest Advocates-on-Record doing a lot of private work from Tamil Nadu, Kerala, Maharashtra, Punjab & Haryana, Himachal Pradesh etc. She was also the then Standing Counsel for the State of Haryana in the Supreme Court. That gave me a lot of exposure and I learnt how to draft Writ Petitions and Special Leave Petitions, do research work and brief Senior Counsels. We used to get a lot of appearance in court and that gave me ample opportunity. It was great to interact with and brief some of the best seniors of those days: Mr Kapil Sibal, Mr. Arun Jaitely, Mr P Chidambaram, etc. All these seniors would normally allow us to give our view points in every briefing and also discuss the strategy to be adopted while arguing the case. It gave me lot of confidence and exposure.

    In fact, once in the beginning, I had briefed a senior counsel where we were to oppose a stay in a Special Leave Petition as caveators, and the petitioners were represented by a batch of seniors. Those days, a caveator would never get a Passover when matters are called if the advocates for the petitioner are present. Even today many courts follow this practice. When this matter was called, the battalion of seniors were present for the Petitioner and I was seeking a Passover for our counsel since he was in some other court. Ms. Indu Malhotra was also busy in another court. But, the Passover was refused and the petitioner argued the matter for the interim relief. Due to the conference and guidance of the earlier day, I was successfully able to oppose the petitioners’ counsel and averted an interim order. This instance gave me a lot of exposure and it was only due to the experience of working with Ms. Malhotra.

    You then joined the chambers of Senior Advocate Mr. C.S. Vaidyanathan. What prompted this shift? Was there a change in the kind of work that was allotted to you?

    In August 1993, I joined the office of Mr. C. S. Vaidyanathan, Senior Advocate. Though I was learning a lot and getting to appear in court, I thought I had learnt Drafting to some extent and I needed to sharpen my skills in complete legal research and counsel work. I wanted to work under a Counsel so I could learn how to prepare arguments and improve my research skills.. So, I shifted from Ms. Malhotra’s office to that of Mr. CSV. The nature of work was different in the sense that there was no work involving the drafting of SLPs, going to the registry and briefing other counsels etc. Instead, we had to read files, which would come for the Senior Counsel engagement from different AORs, and prepare notes for the case and do research. We would participate in the conferences and prepare a list of dates and events and case law notes. Sometimes the briefs would arrive at the last minute also, so it was a learning of a different kind.

    Could you share with us any interesting case that you were a part of? How did you strike a balance between family and work?

    Mr. CSV is a fantastic and an amazing Senior Advocate. He is quick in his uptake, has wide knowledge and is a brilliant lawyer. There were several reported cases between 1992 to 1996 that he had appeared in, when I was working under him. There were several interesting cases. Amratlal Prajivandas case (SAFEMA case: 9 judges matter), Mc Dowell case etc., Jain commission after the death of Rajiv Gandhi were all good  and interesting matters where I got opportunities to learn.  I got married in the meantime, so I had to balance both family and office work. But, our working hours were not so bad and we had the flexibility to adjust our office working hours. My husband helped me a lot in all domestic work and so I was able to manage in office and at home.

    Did you require any preparation to appear for the Supreme Court Advocate-on-Record examination? How was the experience? What would be your advice to lawyers appearing for it?

    Yes. One has to plan and prepare for the AOR exam. I had put in a few hours of study every night for a period of about three months. I was not able to study on all days or do it at a stretch. In fact my son was born in 1994 and he was very small when I started preparing for the exam, therefore, it was difficult to concentrate and study. So I feel that a long time planning for few hours everyday will help one to pass easily. I was appearing for exams after a gap, so I was nervous while sitting in the first exam. Thereafter, I became comfortable. My advice to all the lawyers who want to write that exam is to read regularly and attend the classes conducted by the Supreme Court for this purpose prior to the exam. Answer all questions carefully and you can easily pass.

    What was your experience like, to practice in the newly established disputes redressal system under the Consumer Protection Act, 1986? How was it different, in terms of procedure et cetera from practicing in the Supreme Court and the High Courts? Which other tribunals do you appear before?

    I started getting cases in the National Consumer Disputes Redressal Commission. This is the apex commission which has now the jurisdiction for complaints more than Rs. 1 crore and also for appeals from State Commissions and Revisions. This has a summary procedure and evidence in original complaints are by affidavits only. It gives a quick remedy in respect of consumer disputes. It was a very good experience for me. In exceptional cases, they do send interrogatories. It is very easy to practice there if you are thorough with the Consumer Protection laws and related subjects. I used to appear in MRTP (Now Competition Commission, and Appellate Tribunal), CAT, and CEGAT (Now CESTAT).

     You seem to have been a part of cases involving sensitive issues like custody of children of warring parents. Could you share with us any experience?

    I have done a few custody cases. But, as a Mediator in the Supreme Court I have handled these more. They are very difficult to resolve and are usually fought bitterly. In matters of custody between husband and wife, the welfare of the child is always the paramount consideration.

     What responsibilities did you have as a panel lawyer for the Government of India? What exactly does a panel lawyer do? What kind of cases did you handle as a panel lawyer?

    I have been in the panel for the Central Government for many years. The nature of work differs from one panel to the other. There are drafting panels and appearance panels, and I am in the Senior appearance panel. We get the matters and we have to always be ready to appear. In case the law officers are not able to attend we will have to argue. I have handled various subjects like civil, service, criminal, narcotics, prevention of corruption cases, and constitutional law matters etc. It gives a great exposure and wide range of work experience.

    Could you tell our readers about the pro bono and socio-legal work that you have done? Do you also have any academic interests?

    I have been a panel lawyer for the Supreme Court legal services committee and did a lot of matters during 1996-2013. Now, I appear pro-bono for accused in the criminal matters concerning murder appeals, etc. I have been appointed as an amicus curiae by the Hon’ble Court in several matters-both civil and criminal. Other than that, I am a mediator in the Supreme Court. I attend cases in mediation for resolving disputes when they have been referred by court. These are all pro-bono.

    I like to read a lot. I used to be an honorary editor for the Supreme Court Reports (SCR) earlier. Now they have their own editors.

    You were recently designated Senior Advocate by the Supreme Court. Please tell us a bit about the appointment mechanism for our curious readers.

    I was designated as a Senior Advocate by the Full Court of the Supreme Court of India on the 23rd of April, 2015. As far as I know about the mechanism, we have to apply stating our experience and range of practice in sufficient copies to be circulated to the Hon’ble Judges. Then there is a mechanism by which applications, which have some minimum number of recommendations from the Hon’ble Judges, are taken to the Full Court meeting. Then there is a voting procedure by which it is determined.

    What all do you think led to your appointment as a Senior Advocate? Are there any specific benefits of being a senior? Is there a radical shift in the workload?

    I think hard work, sincerity, dedication, and consistency are some of the essential requirements. You also need a lot of blessings from the Almighty, your parents and elders. J There are no specific benefits of being a senior. In fact the responsibility is even more now. Of course, the nature of work is very different. Now, I neither need to do any drafting, nor write letters to clients! My nature of work is to prepare and argue cases, give opinions, settle pleadings etc. Sometimes briefs come in the last minute, so work pressure varies.

    There are very few women Senior Advocates in the Supreme Court. What are your views?

    Yes, there are very few women seniors in the Supreme Court. I feel that the general tendency has changed now. People have started recognising women lawyers and their good work. But there should be more designations and elevations from the women’s section. Women should also work harder and continue to work with sincerity and dedication. I am sure there is scope for everyone with hope, hard work, consistency and dedication.

    How can students wishing to intern under your valuable guidance get in touch with you? What qualities will you look for in an intern?

    I encourage interns and they can always write to me on my email if they need an internship. I look for interns with positivity, willingness to learn and work hard and with some basic knowledge of the subjects which have been taught in college so far. Honesty and sincerity are some of the essential attributes I look for in any intern/lawyer.

    The quintessential question: the NJAC or Collegium for appointment of judges?

    I will not be able to answer since I have been a part of the team on behalf of the Central Government in that matter and the judgment is awaited.

    What is your message for our readers, especially those who aspire to do counsel practice? What hurdles should they expect and what are your tips to tackle the same?

    My message to the readers is: Learn your lessons in college well. Read regularly. Read law related books and articles whenever you get time. Work hard and be sincere. Develop your communication skills and improve your vocabulary.

    Being argumentative does not mean that you will be a good lawyer. You have to be clear in your thoughts, talk only when needed in court, read latest case laws and developments in the law. Be good to all colleagues and be respectful. Dressing well does not mean dressing expensive. Make a good appearance, be healthy, and maintain discipline. There is no short cut to success. The legal profession is highly competitive. In case one is very serious and hard working there is a lot of scope.

    More than winning the cases one has to be honest and sincere to the client, and the court, work hard and suggest the best possible solution for the clients. People don’t come to us overnight. It takes many years, so be patient. Even if there is only one case, one has to take it seriously and do their best. There is a lot of work out there and if one wants to excel there is ample scope.

     

  • Sajan Poovayya, Senior Advocate, Supreme Court and Karnataka HC, on Poovayya&Co., managing a firm, higher studies, and litigation

    Sajan Poovayya, Senior Advocate, Supreme Court and Karnataka HC, on Poovayya&Co., managing a firm, higher studies, and litigation

    Sajan Poovayya is a graduate of the 1996 batch of NLSIU, Bangalore. Thereafter, he went on to finish his LL.M. from LSE by 2000. Sajan took the plunge and started up with a law firm Poovayya & Co. right after graduation from NLSIU. After 18 years of looking after the growth and developing the firm Sajan quit his role of Managing Partner in 2012 after being appointed as a Senior Advocate. A former Additional Advocate General for Karnataka he has also served as the Chairman of Karnataka State Council, and the Federation of Indian Chambers of Commerce and Industry (FICCI).

    In this interview, he talks to us about:

    • Experience as a student at NLSIU
    • Foreign masters, internships and meetings
    • Setting up a firm after college and taking charge of its expansion and development
    • Experience as the Additional Advocate General for Karnataka and Senior Advocate in the Supreme Court
    • Advice to those wanting to set up their own litigation practice

     

    What influenced you to choose law as your profession?

    Although my father is a lawyer and his court room advocacy inspired me early in life, I aspired to become a neurosurgeon, as medicine fascinated and continues to fascinate me. During my 12th standard (second year Pre-University Course as it was then known in Karnataka), I had devoted considerable time for preparation to sit the medical entrance exam. It was in the latter half of my 12th standard that I was brain washed by my father, not so much to consider law as a profession, but to consider the National Law School at Bangalore as an institution to study at.

    My father was inspired by the wonderful work done by Dr. N.R. Madhava Menon, the founder director of National Law School and he used every bit of that to convince me to sit the National Law School of India University (NLSIU) entrance exam. My elder brother was already a student at NLSIU, having entered the institution inthe school’s first batch of students. At that time, NLSIU had no campus or infrastructure facilities whatsoever and operated literally out of a few sheds in the City’s Central College campus. Despite these odds, Dr.Menon had pulled a rabbit out of the hat by building an institution which, by the end of the 1980s, had gained considerable popularity.

    During my occasional visits to the Law School to meet my brother, I had seen Dr. Menon in action. His approach was to deal with every situation hands on and decisively. I was tremendously influenced simply by watching Dr. Menon in action. Clearly, my father’s brain washing skills and Dr. Menon’s personal aura influenced me to choose NLSIU over any medical school. I sat the exam and secured admission. Once in, confusion in my mind remained for some time, but it took me little less than sixty days during the first trimester to realize that law is the profession for me. Love for the law, although not instant, was strongand I must say has remained stable.

     

    Please tell us a bit about your father’s practice and your initial exposure to law.

    My father has had and continues to have an extremely positive influence on me. He continues to be a very active trial lawyer at Coorg despite completing 55 years at the Bar. He is a very soft spoken person but is voracious and vigorous in court. I would, as a high school student in Coorg, accompany my father to the District Court during school vacations. Many a time, I accompanied him in what he did; as his driver, clerk, stenographer, and at times, simply as his chaperon. His court room advocacy certainly inspired me and many others.

    Although a high school student, I would be tasked with transcribing plaints, completing paraphernalia in dockets to make them ready for filing, etc., which exposed me to the practice of law in the mofussil courts. Law was not abstract to me anymore. I realized that I liked what I saw. My early interest in the law was certainly instilled and inspired by my father’s practice, though I continued to aspire to be a doctor until I saw Dr. Menon in action, building NLSIU.

     

    How was life as a law student at NLSIU? What was the University’s role in shaping you into the individual you are today?

    For me, life as a student at NLSIU was fantastic in every sense of the term. I owe every bit of what I am today to the Law School. When I entered NLSIU it may not have had infrastructure but it certainly had attitude. It had built a culture of academic excellence, healthy but not intense competition, and above all, a holistic approach to the study of law. It is the inter-disciplinary approach to legal education that enamoured me the most. NLSIU did not just induct me into legal studies but also shaped my character and changed my personality completely. I had the benefit of having a wonderful group of teachers at NLSIU and each one greatly influenced and motivated me. I continue to thank them at the end of each day for what they have done to me.

    My peers at NLSIU influenced me even more. They completely changed my personality from being an introvert to becoming not only an extrovert but a fighter too. I found everything that I needed at NLSIU; academic excellence, personality development, strong sense of right and wrong, and above all, true love. I have spent the last 24 years with Sanjanthi, my best friend and wife, who I would possibly have never met but for NLSIU.

     

    Many believe graduates from an NLU have it easier in kick-starting a legal career. How truthful is this belief? Does it make any difference to one’s litigation practice?

    It is a myth that a graduate from a National Law University will find it easier to kick start a legal career. Another astounding myth is that graduates from NLUs are always better than graduates from other law colleges. Extraordinary jewels of the legal profession have emanated and continue to emanate from local law colleges. At the same time, not all graduates from NLUs make a mark in the profession.

    I firmly believe that while institutions can equip you for your journey and provide you with good shoes, what you achieve is not dependent upon the shoes you wear but the steps you take. Being a graduate from an NLU certainly helps inasmuch as NLUs do instil an analytical approach to the study of law and a greater degree of capacity to undertake legal research. To that extent, I believe, it will make some difference in one’s litigation practice, but only that far and no further. If one has to excel as a litigator, one should continue to be determined, to provide his or her best to each brief that comes his or her way. Each brief is akin to a step for you to achieve a higher threshold in the legal profession. It is for you to take those steps, firmly and evenly, lest you trip.

     

    How important do you feel are moot court competitionsfor a law student who wishes to pursue litigation?

    Whilst academic and research oriented activities are very helpful in instilling in a student the capacity to work hard and dig deep to find the essence of every legal matter,moot court competitions sharpen the analytical ability and skill sets of a student. Students should participate in moot court competitionsasmuch as possible. As a student, I have enjoyed every moot court competition that I have participated in and I have emerged a better law analyser therefrom.

    Whilst moot courts necessarily do not expose you to the practicality of real life court room situations, they do provide you with some flavour as to how litigations are contested or defended. To be a successful lawyer, consistency and hard work are necessary ingredients. Hard work does not commence post enrolment at the Bar, but from the very moment you seek admission in a law school.

     

    What kind of internships did you undertake as a law student? Which was the most enriching internship experience for you?

    I was clearly inclined towards a career as a litigator. I therefore chose to do every internship of mine with litigators. From my second year at NLSIU, I regularly attended the chambers of my senior and guru in the profession, Mr. S. Vijay Shankar, Senior Advocate and Former Advocate General for Karnataka. I clerked in his chambers on a daily basis, post school hours, through my years at NLSIU. It enormously exposed me to the practice of law in the High Court of Karnataka. The four years of clerking for Mr. Vijay Shankar had sufficiently equipped me to deal with many nuances of drafting, filing and registry processes in the High Court. Mr. Vijay Shankar is one of the most methodical and disciplined lawyers I have known. His methodical approach indeed equipped me with sufficient skill sets. It was clearly one of the most enriching experiences for me.

    That apart, I interned with litigators in the Supreme Court during my summers through law school. One of the most enriching internships in Delhi was with Mr. V.R. Reddy, Senior Advocate and at that time the Additional Solicitor General of India. His capacity to portray some of the most complex legal propositions in the most simplest of terms amazed and inspired me.

     

    What challenges did you have to overcome in setting up a firm soon after graduating from law school?

    (Soon after graduating from NLSIU, Sajan established the firm Poovayya & Co. in Bangalore)

    I graduated as a gold medallist from NLSIU and late Dr. A.P.J. Abdul Kalam handed over the degree tome in the convocation. I was on cloud nine. I had to go through a year’s compulsory post qualification internship before enrolling at the Bar as per the prevailing rules(which fortunately have been changed today). No sooner did I complete my post qualification internship, Poovayya & Co. was established with enormous support from my senior Mr. Vijay Shankar and my father Mr. M. K. Poovayya. It was unusual for lawyers to set up independent chambers or law firms immediately after enrolment at the Bar. When I expressed my desire to do so, my Senior and my father did not once discourage me, they in fact supported me in this venture. I plunged into the profession for I knew in the back of my mind that my father would continue to be a safety net, not so much in terms of finances but in terms of guidance.

    The initial years for Poovayya & Co. were extremely hard but never depressing. It was hard to gain the confidence of clients and the Bench. Hard work continues even today and enormous travel across courts in the country makes it harder. But therecontinue to be happy days and never have I gone home sad at the end of the day.

    I am glad Poovayya & Co. began its journey from Bengaluru and not any other city. Bengaluru, as a city in the mid-1990s, was going through a metamorphosis with corporatization being the buzz word that helped the firm garner quite a lot of work quickly.

    The Karnataka High Court is possibly the best High Court in the nation for a young lawyer to commence a career in litigation. Through my initial years, judges were extremely encouraging. It is for a young lawyer to make the best of such encouragement and aim forhigher thresholds of excellence in the profession. It is a myth that it is hellish for a litigator during the initial years.Hard work is a requirement, no doubt, with lesser amounts of monies compared to corporate non contentious lawyers, but the sense of achievement is extremely gratifying.

     

    Do you still get reminded of your first case and first hearing?

    I do recall my first argument in Court. I enrolled at the State Bar Council at 11.30 am and was out for lunch with Mr. Basavaraj, my immediate senior at the chambers of Mr. Vijay Shankar. Duringlunch, he encouraged me to argue a matter in the Chief Justice’s Court post lunch at 2.30 pm. I knew the matter well on account of my continuous clerkship at the chambers of my Senior.

    Mr. Basavaraj sat beside me in Court as a fulcrum of encouragement. The matter involved a question of incorporation by reference in a legislation. I argued for about forty five minutes, my first ever as a lawyer. I lost the case but received compliments fromthe Bench headed by Mr. R.P. Sethi. A few members of the Bar enquired with Mr. Basavaraj, if I was a Counsel from another High Court, specifically briefed to argue the matter. Failure in the first case was not only sugar coated for me but also became a stepping stone to get here and go on further.

     

    Is it important to have prior connections within the legal field to successfully manage this?

    Prior connections in the legal field are unnecessary and many a time, can be detrimental as well. Prior exposure to the legal field is very necessary and this can be achieved with the help ofinternships and/or clerkships. Prior exposure certainly better equips you to deal with the vagaries of the profession whilst prior connections may not necessarily do so.

     

    What made you choose London School of Economics and Political Science (LSE) for your masters in Information Technology Law? How has your Masters from the prestigious LSE affected your career in the long run?

    I would always recommend a stint at reputed universities abroad, not so much for the quantum of law that you will learn but for the enormous exposure such stint affords you. I have been a fan of LSE since the time I read the works of Bernard Shaw and also for the fact that Dr.Ambedkar, at one point of time, was associated with the institution. I obtained a Master’s degree and thoroughly enjoyed my time at LSE. The fact that I received a fat scholarship which took care of not just academic fees but also expenses for a comfortable living in London was an added incentive. I pursued the solicitor’s programme in parallel and was admitted to Law Society of LES as a solicitor of the Supreme Court of England and Wales.

     

    I realized that the thresholds of academic excellence at NLSIU were as high, if not higher than LSE. Therefore, more than the academic exposure, what I gained most during my stint at London was exposure to how barristers work in the city. I was associated with a few barristers and I would regularly attend hearings (as a visitor) at the Royal Courts of London. Those experiences further reinforced my decision to remain and continue as a litigator.

     

    After having completed your masters in a foreign university, what made you come back to India, instead of setting up a career in the UK?

    India offers one of the most vibrant platforms in the world for a litigator. The quantum and diversity of litigation in India far exceeds anything that UK can offer. I had no doubts ever in my mind that I wanted to litigate and that too in my home country. While I did receive job offers from a few London law firms, they made no sense to me in light of what I always wanted to be, i.e., a litigator. Coming back to India to litigate was therefore a natural choice for me and I am very glad I did.

     

    How was your experience working as the State Government’s lawyer?Would you consider taking up such work in the future?

    (Sajan was the Additional Advocate General for Karnataka from November 2012 to May 2013)

    I officiated as an Additional Advocate General for Karnataka for about a year and was the sole Additional Advocate General for the State of Karnataka for good part of the tenure. I thoroughly enjoyed my tenure. What made it even more special for me was that my chamber senior Mr. Vijay Shankar was the Advocate General, officiating for the second term. Sixteen years prior thereto, in 1996, he had commenced his first term as the Advocate General for Karnataka during which time I was his chamber junior and had closely worked under him in many matters of importance. The opportunity to work with him again and that too as his Additional Advocate General was indeed a wonderful experience.

    I firmly believe that all litigators should, at some point of time in their careers, work for the State or the Union. The dimensions of work that you experience as a senior law officer for the State or Union far transcends the exposure that private practice can offer. Representing the State or Union as a senior law officer in the midst of multiple bureaucratic constraints makes you not just a better lawyer but a more mature human being. For a successful private practitioner, occupying such position also affords the opportunity to contribute to the profession and give a little back to the society. An efficient lawyer as a law officer can make an enormous difference to the State and consequently to the society. I will certainly consider taking up such positions as and when, and if at all, they are offered to me.

     

    What would be your advice to recent law graduates when they are faced with the choice between joining law chambers of a Senior Advocate, or working with an up-and-coming new lawyer?

    It does not matter whether you join the chambers of aSenior Advocate or work with an up-and-coming new lawyer. As a young lawyer, fresh off mint, one should join a chamber which has a wide variety of work. It is extremely important for a litigator to experience a wide area of contentious practice, rather than restrict oneself to a particular specialized vertical. The greater the exposure to a variety of legal work, better will you emerge as a lateral thinker. The key aspects that a lawyer should look for in a chamber are therefore: (i) variety of work; and (ii) opportunity to handle litigations completely, however minor they may be.

     

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    Should one start out at the Trial Courts before proceeding to the High Court if one has no connections in the legal arena? Or would you recommend joining a litigation firm instead?

    Practice as a trial lawyer is crucial and sets the foundations for a successful practice. One cannot aspire to become a successful appellate counsel sans any trial experience, although there may be exceptions. I find many lawyers starting out directly at High Courts which do not have original jurisdiction or even in the Supreme Court. Whilst that may work for a few, it is not the most desirable path to tread. It is not necessary for a few years to be exclusively devoted to trial work. It has been my experience that a good blend of trial and appellate practice simultaneously helps in the overall development of a litigator.

    For youngsters who are determined to climb the vertical of litigation practice, I would highly recommend joining a reputed litigation firm which has considerable trial and appellate work.

     

    How would you encourage students to keep their determination to enter litigation alive instead of joining corporate firms, owing to the lack of financial stability in the former?

    Gone are the days when it was tough surviving the first few years in the litigation arena. Young litigators no more receive merely subsistence allowances. Almost all law chambers offer a fairly adequate remuneration for a young junior counsel. When I entered the profession, a thousand rupees per month for a junior was considered a princely sum, as most chambers typically offered less than half of that.

    Juxtapose to the present day, where junior litigators are paid sufficiently to maintain a decent lifestyle if not a luxurious one. Certainly, litigation initially offers far less, in terms of financial rewards, as compared to corporate law firms. However, the sense of achievement and satisfaction is unparalleled. What you need therefore is the determination to survive as a litigator. The growth curve in litigation is so steep that in a few years, a diligent litigator will not just surpass his peers in corporate law firms but also achieve far greater thresholds of professional success (and financial success too).

     

    How do you prepare for a good case? What would be your tips and advice to young lawyers?

    There are no good or bad cases. There are only good or bad lawyers. When one begins preparations for a brief, one should never pre-judge the matter. The case is what it is and it is for you to extract the best out of it and weave sound legal arguments around it. My candid advice for young lawyers is to prepare every brief as if there is no tomorrow. ‘Complete Preparation’ is the mantra. It is certainly not sufficient for you to prepare your arguments on what you believe are the merits of your case. The mantra for success is in being prepared with as many arguments against your proposition and in finding counters to each of those, such that you will ultimately emerge victorious. Young lawyers should also bear in mind that many a time, litigations are lost on procedural issues despite substantial merits in the matter. Never ignore procedure. I have found thirty minutes’ preparation for every minute of submission in Court to be a fairly helpful yardstick. In complex matters, however, the yardstick can extend to an hour’s preparation for every minute’s submission.

     

    Do you have plans for the future expansion of Poovayya & Co.? Are business development skills necessary when it comes to running a firm nation-wide?

    Pursuant to my designation as Senior Advocate, I quit the law firm Poovayya & Co. Whilst there exists debate around the question as to whether a Senior Advocate can or should continue as partner in a law firm, I have always maintained that once designated, Senior Advocates should not hold direct interests in or control law firms. It is extremely difficult for a Senior Advocate to disconnect himself from clients and client aspirations, if he continues to hold equity or proprietary interests in a law firm.

    When I quit Poovayya & Co. and demitted offices as the firm’s managing partner, I was reasonably certain that the firm has matured to a level that it would continue to grow without me. The firm’s existing partners have done a splendid job in continuing its growth in each of its four offices. Poovayya & Co. as a firm has continued to prosper with significant year-on-year growth, independent of me. Whether to expand the firm further with newer offices in other cities is for the firm’s existing partners to decide.

    On the question of business development skills, I have a slightly non-traditional view. Having run a law firm for almost 18 years, I believe that it is your work which should be your brand ambassador and the best marketing partner you can ever have. Almost the entirework being undertaken by Poovayya & Co. has come from the previous and existing clients’ references. I therefore believe that capacity to market is irrelevant for building a successful law practice.

     

    What do you look for when you hire lawyers under you? Can academic experience replace work experience and the ability to deliver?

    What I would see in a young lawyer during the recruitment process is the following: (i) capacity and inclination to work hard; and (ii) rational & analytical thought process.

    Academic excellence, at times, demonstrates the candidate’s capacity to work hard. It is impossible to compare or choose between academic excellence and work experience. One does not substitute the other. What you need is a combination of both.

     

    Do you find it easy to maintain a work-life balance? How do you unwind after a hard day’s work?

    The concept of work-life balance has been hyped in India and sometimes discussions around it are unnecessary. The debate on ‘work-life balance’ pre-supposes that you do not enjoy your work and therefore do not see ‘life’ in it. For a lawyer who enjoys his work, a lot of his life is woven around his work. If you enjoy what you do as a lawyer, you may be tired at the end of the day but are never stressed. My work keeps me packed for a good part of the day and the night. Travels between the Supreme Court and various High Courts makes it a little worse in terms of time management. That said, I do find sufficient time to spend with my family and I cherish every moment of what I get with them. The best form of relaxation is to spend time with your family and loved ones.

    I also collect and restore old automobiles and that passion helps me unwind. Strumming Carnatic classical tunes on the mandolin is another way for me to unwind.  Music is a great way to de-stress. Lawyers should plan their work in such a manner that they have sufficient time to do things other than law and spend time with their loved ones.

     

    What is the one advice you would like to give our readers?

    Never underestimate the power of ‘here’ and ‘now’. When at work, give all of what you have to it, in terms of sincerity, labour, time and attention. Always have an eye for detail. When you are at work, switch on ‘work’ and switch off the ‘world’.  When you are not working switch off ‘law’ and switch on the ‘world’. Doing things other than law will invariably make you a better lawyer!

    To be a superlative litigator, you should be a maverick with a strong moral fibre.

  • Ratan Singh, Director, Chartered Institute of Arbitrators, on being an International Arbitrator, expertise in Mining Law and his practice at Delhi HC

    Ratan Singh, Director, Chartered Institute of Arbitrators, on being an International Arbitrator, expertise in Mining Law and his practice at Delhi HC

    Mr. Ratan K. Singh graduated from Delhi University, batch of 1996. He is currently the Director of Chartered Institute of Arbitrators (India). His practice mainly consists of International and Domestic Arbitration, International Commercial and Financial Law, Mining Law, Construction and Infrastructure Law, Environmental Law, Constitutional and Administrative Law.

    In this interview we speak to him about:

    • Building up a firm clientele
    • Serving as an arbitrator in various domestic and international arbitrations
    • Being the Director of CIArb India and a career in Arbitration

     

    Please tell us what motivated you to pursue legal studies.

    I somehow felt that my personality, nature and approach towards life would go well with this profession and intuitively decided to pursue legal studies. I strongly believe that it should really come from within and there should be a strong urge for the profession. If you believe in “giving”, this is the most appropriate profession. However these days the importance of “giving” is increasingly being ignored.

     

    What were your plans after graduation?

    I did M.Sc. in Geology before I joined LL.B. As I was university rank holder in Geology, I could have easily become Geologist, however this is not what I wanted to do. I always wanted to be a lawyer. It is another thing that my background in Geology is helping me in my Mining Law practice and I am one of the very few lawyers in country who specialises in mining law and is regularly engaged. Civil Services was never my interest and choice, though in our days every second student used to aspire for Civil Services.

     

    As a fresher just out of college, how did you manage to get a mentor for yourself?

    [sociallocker] After I passed out from my law school, I went to meet many lawyers, including some of them, who at later stage of my career have developed lots of affection and respect for me, but got no chance. I was helped by one of my batch-mates, who was close to one of our law teachers. The said gentlemen took me to my first and only senior (who later became Senior Advocate and Judge in Delhi High Court) with whom I worked for around four and half years.

    This is one profession, one cannot do without a mentor/senior/guide. This is primarily for the reason that lots of procedural and professional aspects are to be learnt. Had this not been so, this practice of pupillage would not have continued for centuries.

    My emphasis however would be that it is of utmost importance to have a mentor who is hard working and honest. One sub – consciously or consciously learns, what he sees in his mentor/senior.

     

    How did you build up on your client base?

    I was a complete outsider in Delhi but I never had any problem in getting work. During my four and half years with my senior, I was completely focused on learning and made no effort at all to find any work for myself.

    When I became independent, all my cases came from and through lawyer friends of my senior, who had seen me working in my senior’s chamber. They were somehow impressed with my hard work and academic interest in the subject. For a lawyer who believes in hard work and honesty, their lawyer colleagues are always a big source of work. There has always been a dearth of hard working lawyers as more and more lawyers who believe in short-cuts etc manage to generate work but they too need lawyers who can really work on the file. Every single law office/chamber and law-firm is always looking for a hard working, honest and trained lawyer.

    What is needed is four and half years to five years of focused learning without thinking about gaining clients and client-base and see the result thereafter. You will always have more work than you can really handle.

     

    What do you look for in your interns when they apply for a position to work with you?

    I look for sincerity and honesty towards work. It is also important that he/she should be reasonably good in their expressions. Anybody who wishes to intern with my office has to send his/her bio-data to the office-in-charge and they get a call, depending on availability of vacancy for interns.

     

    What do you think about the future of legal education in India?

    Lawyers are always needed and will always be needed. People need lawyers in booms and busts alike.

     

    How is the work atmosphere at the Delhi High Court presently?

    I would rate Delhi High Court as the best High Court in the country for more than one reason. It is no doubt true that more and more national law universities and private five year law colleges/universities are producing more and more law graduates. These national law universities have also brought good improvement in the quality of law education (though a lot needs improvement, particularly the quality of law teachers). However it is easy to become a successful lawyer. The only attributes needed are hard-work, honesty and the willingness and urge to give. I see lots of law graduates with good academic background and good potential spoiling themselves because they lack either of these three most fundamental attributes, i.e hard-work, honesty and the willingness and urge to give.

     

    If someone does not go to a top law school, would you say he still has a shot at a great career in law?

    Yes, if one is ready to work hard (around twelve to fourteen hours a day) and is honest towards his office, profession and client, they are bound to be successful lawyers. They are unstoppable. To the contrary, if someone has passed out from a top law school and lacks any of the above mentioned three attributes (i.e hard-work, honesty and the willingness and urge to give), they are likely to fail.

     

    How has your journey been from a fresher to being an expert in arbitration?

    (Mr. Singh has served as an arbitrator and has chaired as a tribunal member or counsel in various domestic and international arbitrations, ad-hoc as well as under the rules of ICC, UNCITRAL, SIAC, ICA, DIAC etc.)

    I followed Arbitration and Conciliation Act, 1996 since its inception. Traditionally in India, there have been two categories of lawyers who have been practicing arbitration. One category is of those lawyers, who have not been in active litigation, though pursued arbitration (mainly from big law firms). Second category comprises of those lawyers, who are only in litigation and off and on doing arbitration, without having basic knowledge of arbitration as a subject. I wanted to bridge this gap. In order to be a good arbitration professional, it is important to have good litigation exposure and experience with substantial experience of cross examination etc. I have been a hard-core litigator with passion for arbitration since the beginning of my career. I have been taking a keen and active interest in the theoretical and philosophical aspects of arbitration, both domestic and international. I have also been attending domestic and international arbitration events as a speaker and delegate.

    Anybody having interest in arbitration should follow the developments in developed arbitration jurisdictions, including UK, USA, Australia, Singapore, Hong Kong, France, Germany, Austria, Netherlands. It is also important to follow arbitration institutions of repute, like Chartered Institute of Arbitrators, UK (of which I am Director of India Branch), ICC, ICCA, SIAC, PCA, ICSID, SIAC, HKIAC, KLRCA, SCC, IBA. Chartered Institute of Arbitrators has on its web-site has made freely available various resources, guidelines etc, which are used and referred to globally. Equally important is to attend arbitration conferences, seminars etc. I would also strongly recommend to follow Kluwer Arbitration Blog.

     

    Can you tell us how you got the opportunity to be an arbitrator?

    (Mr. Singh has been appearing as a counsel in various Asian and European countries.)

    Once people get to know your interest in arbitration or for that matter in any other field of law, you are followed and eventually engaged. I get nominations to sit as an arbitrator as people find me as someone with interest and experience in arbitration. In order to get nomination as an arbitrator, one must enjoy a good reputation. These days, lawyers are increasingly nominated to act as an arbitrator, as it is believed that they are more and more ready to learn and prove themselves.

     

    What are your major responsibilities as a director of the Chartered Institute of Arbitrators, London?

    As director, I am primarily involved, with my co-directors, in policy making for the institution. CIArb is the oldest arbitration institution in world. We are celebrating 100th year of the institution this year. CIarb has members in around 120 countries. This is the only institution in world, which gives accreditation to arbitrators. CIArb also gives accreditation to arbitration tutors. No amount of subscription can get you accreditation. One gets accreditation only by qualification and experience. We conduct training programmes, awareness programmes, conferences etc for lawyers, arbitrators, law students etc. Apart from accredited arbitrator, I am also an accredited tutor. Teaching and speaking on arbitration is one of my passions and interests and this makes me participate in almost all events of CIArb.

     

    Are there any Indian or International courses which you would recommend for law students who would like to build a career in arbitration?

    I will recommend students to follow CIArb courses and training programmes. Apart from law schools, groups of students (around 25 students) can approach us and we (CIArb, India Branch) can conduct courses for them. Such courses can lead to accreditation from CIArb.

     

    What should a law graduate do in his first year of graduation to establish a career in arbitration?

    First things first, learn by heart and mind bare act of Arbitration and Conciliation Act, 1996. Also go through bare acts of at least U.K and Singapore. In addition, UNCITRAL MODEL LAW and UNCITRAL Rules should also be necessarily gone into.

    Arbitration act of U.K. is broadly modelled on UNCITRAL Model law, which is a source of the Indian Act as well.The  benefit one gets by reading UK act is that it is more detailed and is a fantastic source for better understanding of the subject. Singapore has different acts for domestic and international arbitration and by consulting these two acts from same jurisdiction, one would understand the aspect of distinctions for domestic and international arbitration. London is called Mecca for international arbitration. Similarly, Singapore can be said to be Mecca for South Asian countries. Substantial (obviously not all) number of arbitrations, having Indian connection, are generally held in London or Singapore. Therefore it would be wise to follow arbitrations and arbitration laws in these two jurisdictions.

    I also recommend every arbitration student to read and consult rules of institutions like, ICC, SIAC, SCC, UNCITRAL, LCIA. One must remember that ICC is the most sought after Institutional rules for international arbitration.

    Website of UNCITRAL is another good treasure for resources. One must read CLOUT, i.e. the digest of case laws from different MODEL Law jurisdictions. These cases help in understanding the manner in which model law or domestic laws based on model law are interpreted in different jurisdictions.

    Last but not the least, one must buy and read Student edition of book authored by Redfren Hunter. In addition, consult any book (which should not be going into more than one volume) on Indian Arbitration Act. One should simultaneously follow Indian and International arbitration.

     

    What would you like to say about the current state of Arbitration Law in India?

    In recent past, we have seen good forward looking judgments written by Supreme Court of India. Very soon, we are likely to have substantially amended Arbitration Act. Law Commission has suggested substantial and progressive amendments. Though India is signatory to good number of BITs and already facing serious threats of lots of Investment claims, India is not a signatory to ICSID. In February, I had long meeting with Secretary General of ICSID at their Headquarters in Washinton DC and I strongly believe that it would be in the interest of India to become a signatory to ICSID. One change, which I think can take care of many odds in India, should be to have Commercial Courts in India.

     

    What would be your advice on setting up a career in arbitration to law students who are still studying?

    Around eight out of ten commercial contracts in India have an arbitration clause as a dispute resolution mechanism. So far as International commercial transactions are concerned, almost all of them have an arbitration clause. This by itself tells us that arbitration is a fantastic career option for law students.
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