With a career spanning over two decades and expertise in Real Estate, General Corporate, and Commercial Transactions, what were some of the early experiences or influences that drew you to these specific areas of law?
Early years in Practice are experimental, one has to be open to everything, each work adds value to your knowledge, it is like experimenting with your own skill set, it is only with years that your client decides what you are good at, so I guess the choice is more about getting your skills to explore everything rather than being selective in the early years. And as you go through handling transactions, each being its own type, over the years, you realise that every transaction has that one element which is different, and there lies the experience, which gradually grows through such handling and conclusions of transactions, it’s a process and there’s no short cut to it.
You began your academic journey with a degree in B.Com. What led you to pursue law afterward and was it a deliberate choice or something that evolved over time?
My career chose me, I guess. I was always meant to be here. In fact, I also cleared my ICWA, Group III and CS, Group I, but ultimately my passion for Law was stronger. I was inclined to do something which had an element of variety in its execution and detailing and Law, has a wide range of skill sets to choose from, here there is no limit to the learning or stopping from being variant and practicing the streams that one intends to, one can be practicing various domains simultaneously, too.
Having worked with prominent law firms and institutions, what inspired your transition to establishing an independent practice? What were some of the turning points that shaped this decision?
Growth is inevitable and so is learning, any point of saturation leads you to level up. That is the only constant. One always wishes to have an independent set up, not for enjoying freedom but also for being able to take up newer areas of expertise, grow. The Covid times, made start up advisory and POSH Practice my added areas of legal services, that was the time that I started rendering legal services and complete legal handholding to start-ups, MSMEs and handled their entire contract cycle. I guess it’s always about learning and as a Professional that should be one’s priority.
You’ve handled a wide range of real estate transactions. In your experience, what are some of the major legal challenges that often arise during due diligence in the real estate sector?
Real Estate Practice is one of the most challenging practice areas, because of the wide range of enactments in force, gazettes and regulations, with plethora of enactments, due diligence for specific land types, tenures as also proximity to certain sensitive areas and coastal areas, personal laws, etc makes it an extensive area of practice. Out of the many transactions that I have been a part of and handled, one such was while being a part of a 50acre acquisition, it had multiple enactment permissions, sanctions and permissions, under various Acts, prior to my client being able to buy it, it was for a German Company. One of the most exciting acquisitions.
Your work with startups, SEZ developers, and major infrastructure companies. When dealing with SEZs in particular, how do you adapt your legal strategy? What makes the legal landscape involving SEZs distinct from others?
Start up and SEZ are two distinct set ups, calling for totally different approach. While for a start-up it is important to understand their vision statement to be able to legally handhold them, for a SEZ it’s the scale of acquisition, permissions involved. A start up may still be naïve to hiring a Lawyer yesterday, a SEZ has it all along. While SEZ is about scale, a Start up is about measure. Law remains the bottom line for both, the scale differs. As I mentioned practicing law means gauging the requirement, while start up may just require contracts, IP to be its first choice of legal expertise SEZ calls for enumerable sanctions, due diligence, permissions, contracts, Definitive documents and may more to even begin with.
You’ve played an active role in promoting POSH compliance and workplace inclusion. In your view, how is the legal framework in India evolving to support safer, more equitable work environments?
Yes, as I mentioned I started my POSH practice in the year 2019 and it was a turning point in understanding how an organisation can be ignorant about an employee being mentally harassed (sexually). It has been 2013 since the enactment came in force, but the way things have evolved in view of the present workplace and the diversity of the workforce, calls for a different perception of how we would now interpret the enactment, more gender neutral. But by and large it’s the women who need to be safeguarded against the harassment and we have to focus and emphasize more on gender sensitization and education. The practice in POSH is a challenging area of practice, which calls for proper interpretation of law, policies of an organisation and understanding the human aspect of the practice, too. There still needs to be a lot of work to be done in the domain and I personally feel, the real achievement lies in not requiring any Law to tell people how to behave/act with one another. It’s about being able to strike a chord between a healthy and mutually dependable, respectful and growth oriented work environment for all.
With the Data Protection and Digital Privacy Act (DPDPD) gaining prominence, how ready do you believe Indian businesses are to meet compliance requirements? What specific impact does this have in sectors like real estate?
Absolutely ignorant is how I would view it as, as of now. With we still awaiting the Rules to be framed, I guess it’s still a wait and watch scenario with most. Though there is awareness about something, it’s not clear as to how much detrimental it can be, if non-complied with, and that’s a huge gap that we as Professionals, working in this domain, have to fill. You’ve received several accolades for your work. What key advice would you offer to aspiring legal professionals particularly those looking to build a corporate practice?
Law is the profession for the patient players, you cannot rush to success in this field, it’s about Perseverance and constant Learning, here it is about knowledge first. One important thing is never compare your success with any measuring tape, accolades, awards, included. Success means to each its own and thus does not have any set yardstick of measurement. Focus on your journey, upgrading, learning and do everything with a lot of passion and involvement, nothing is Magic, it takes time to shape up and show results. Patience is the key. There are wide choices in todays times and one can pick and choose that one intends to and stay focussed on building that. But, levelling and upgrading is a must. Law is an ever growing field and a need for all, so learning is absolutely inevitable, I know it all attitude, may not work.
With such a diverse and dynamic legal portfolio, what drives your passion for the law each day? What has sustained this motivation and commitment over the years?
Your question has the answer- PASSION and I would value Discipline more than Motivation, Consistency above Perfection, its ones constant effort and dedication that keeps you going, every day.
I’ll start with the very, very important, and first and pertinent question, how and when did you decide to become a Barrister and an Advocate? And how was your journey? When did it start and how is it going? What kind of challenges have you faced still now?
Thank you for the question. Coming from Delhi, obviously it being the litigation hub, my school was right near the Delhi High Court and the Supreme Court.
So it was always on the way to school. I would see the courts, the lawyers. It was very intriguing to me. And then, a funny anecdote, when I was in 11th or 12th, I remember I had taken commerce with maths and I was so traumatized with maths. Then the next question came, where can I make money where math won’t be required and I don’t have to use trigonometry.
So there were few options which came out of which, again, law came, so I thought, might as well. Maybe that’s destiny. So that was the main reason why I started with law. It was a very stupid excuse, I must say, but everything’s written. I went to the UK. I was in University of Warwick where I did my undergrad, LLB. Unlike India, there what you do is you learn the substantive law in your undergrad. That is your LLB. That’s for three years. And then you either become a barrister or a solicitor, wherever you learn the procedural aspects. So solicitors are the ones who work in law firms. They are the ones who interact with the clients who make your witness statements or draft your petition. Barristers are a bit of a different side of the disputes.
Barristers are the ones who have the right of audience. That means they’re the ones who argue in court. So the training to be a barrister is quite different. It’s more about reading skills. It’s more of technicality and more into law. I mean, I’m sure both require their own sets of skills. Being a solicitor on the original side and being able to deduce that evidence from the client is a separate art, which barristers don’t have to do because then the paperwork already comes to them and you have to apply your brain just towards the right affording suspect.
So I was trained to be a barrister there, which opened my insights a lot. The way of education that we got there was quite different. Coming from a CBSE background where in our board exams, we were required to write probably a 300 word essay and suddenly entering into this university where within the first week I’m given an assignment to write a 3000 word essay.
It was challenging for all of us. I still remember, okay, so I wrote that essay and then they were like, but this is already there in the book. Like, what do you want? Law is already there and I’m giving you the law. And that’s where they taught me what analytical thinking was. And I think it was very important. Honestly, coming from the CBSE background, I did find it a bit disadvantageous, initially.
Took me a year to grasp and understand how this functions, how the essay writing functions, how do you write 5,000 words when you can do the same for 500 words. That’s also an art. Yeah, it was a very different form of education system. Some things I would say they should learn from India and some things I would really suggest India should learn from them.
Like when I was trying to be a barrister, we used to have recorded sessions of cross-examination or examination in chief or client handling. The biggest thing is client handling. What questions do you need to ask your clients while also protecting yourself under the ethical rules?
Like a simple thing if you’re doing mainly criminal trials. You won’t ask him a question, did you do it? Because the moment you say that and he answers that question to you, you can’t now take a not guilty plea. So ethical standards also come around, I’m sure. So these are things I’m not saying people have mal intention or anything, but these are things that need to be taught.
Problem is, I don’t see in Indian law schools that are being taught, I was fortunate enough to have been taught that. And whenever I have interns, I always tell them that when you’re talking to a client, be very careful because it is a double edged sword. Anything and everything that they reveal to you, though it is bound by attorney client privilege, but you also have the advocates Act and you need to be careful in navigating your way through both of them, by using it harmoniously.
So these are a few things that I learned there, how it was different. Then obviously after doing law, I was really motivated to come back to India because I love my country. I love the way things function. It may be chaotic, but I love the chaos. So I decided to take that leap of faith and coming back to India. I remember I was with Mr.Ciccu sir, in Delhi for a couple of years, one and a half years or so, where, I mean, I was exposed to the world of arbitrations, which was a very new ballgame. And, considering I was a barrister, so I had the license to practice in arbitration, so until I get my formal license in India to practice, so that way it was better for me to do that.
A very good experience in international arbitrations. And then I moved to Bombay, took another leap of faith, left my hometown Delhi, and then moved to a completely different city, the financial capital of India. It was an eyeopener. It taught me a lot. AZB was amazing that way. The work was high pressure, I won’t lie, but what you learn in a short span of time is invaluable because you have such volumes of cases and the type of cases.
There are humongous disputes for hundreds and thousands of crores. How a big firm functions, how 20 lawyers put their brain in one case. And, yeah, I mean, it was a very good learning process and that way Bombay has been kind and cruel at the same time. It always uses the carrot and stick story.
If you screw around, you’ll get beaten. If you’re nice, you get that carrot. So yeah, it’s been a good journey so far.
Keeping that in mind, in the early stages of your career, you gained invaluable experiences with Senior Advocate, Ciccu Mukhopadhaya, the kind of challenges you may have faced because you were transitioning from UK to India and the way it works over here, how did these kind of experiences contribute to your understanding of the kind of arbitrations that we do on national, or rather domestic level and international arbitration; so how do you see your transition along with the transition of arbitration itself?
I mean, true, like you said, arbitration has scaled great heights in India.
When I moved from the UK, I remember doing some internships in mini pupilages in the UK especially. The most notable one was Blackstone Chambers that I was there, I was fortunate enough to assist the seniors that time. The Queen’s Council now King’s councils in the Gina Miller case, though, not an arbitration, but it was Gina Miller is the famous Brexit case.
So there I saw barristers sitting one entire month on one case. So as a new law student, that is something very new, how well prepared you all are, and even the competition is as well prepared. India has a very different work game. I’m not comparing the two of anything about competency or quality.
Both require a different set of skills. They are shocked when they see Indian senior counselors appearing in five cases in a day. They’re like how is this possible? Here one barrister is sitting for an entire month for one case. How is this person doing five appearances in one day. It’s shocking to know. It requires a different set of skills to do. When I started litigation, the moment I came back to India, that switch was quite different.
It was shocking. It was amazing how in chaos they are still functioning properly. That was an eye opener how this is happening. Now, specific context of arbitrations. During that time, international arbitrations were growing. Now I foresee a dip in the arbitrations because of a lot of things.
A, how the government is also taking a not so pro arbitration stand now, with more than INR 10 crores of government contracts removing the arbitration clause. Stamp duties being imposed on awards. Very high stamp duties, especially like now, the recent Maharashtra Stamp Act, so it will hinder arbitration going forward. Considering also the list of non arbitrability of disputes being expanded.
It has come to a point. It feels like sometimes nothing is applicable. But yeah, talking about that golden period when I was here with Ciccu sir, very amazing. It was like dust. So anywhere you hit a case law is gonna get settled about different parts of things, be it seat versus venue obligations, be it pre-enforcement deposits.
And then set aside the definition of patent illegality being expanded and then again being narrowed down, the stamping of arbitration issue. These all are really enthralling issues which have been taken the course of arbitration in India. Specifically with Ciccu sir, I was fortunate to assist him in international arbitrations.
The most fond memory I have was when I went to Paris with him for a CIAC arbitration. So the biggest question everyone asked was, oh, why Paris if it’s CIAC? So the seat and venue argument again comes out there that Paris was the venue, that Singapore is the seat, substantive law is theIndian contract Act.
So three 3 types of law, procedural, substantive, and the seat (jurisdictional). So it was enthralling to witness how SIAC functions at an international level. We had all the top arbitrators in the world in that, the biggest names that you can understand, how professionally it was being conducted, how every line was being transcribed, was very important to see.
And the best part was in the night, our job was to inspect if everything’s written is right or not, because by chance there’s an issue. Then how witnesses were cross examined, how the Chinese walls were always maintained regardless of how they are based, that there is no intimidation or anything going on.
It was a very good experience and you learn different facets of law. When you go for enforcement or set aside how Singapore views it and how India views it. India, I would still say has a bit more broader scope than Singapore, but maybe it’s needed because it’s different geographical, geopolitical, demographic issues that we have here.
Considering now that argument, which is going on in the Supreme Court regarding, section 34, that is a set aside application should they be allowed to modify the award. Now that is something which is, I don’t know what the Supreme Court’s going to say because I have views on both sides.
If you allow them to modify it, then very well, because otherwise what happens, the moment you set aside, you go back to clock zero and you stop. But the moment you get the power, the modify, then what’s the point, there is a normal court proceeding where you’re giving appellate powers. So it’s a very difficult thing. The scope in India, and at least in the last 10 years since the amendment has come, the act after 96 close to 18 years, that amendment came 18, 19 years. Since then, a lot of things have changed. Arbitration was booming. Maybe with these recent amendments or the government stand and the highest stamp duty, it may take a hit. But if you want to have India as a very high on the charts on the ease of doing business, we have to be pro arbitration.
So that is my takeaway from the last 7 to 8 years of practice in arbitration.
How did you decide to start your own law firm, your own chambers, and what was the motivation behind it? And the kind of challenges? I’m pretty sure you must have faced. We request you to share some of those with the kind of solutions that you came up with because you started this at such an early age. It’ll be very beneficial for our learners to understand how they can also brush themselves to go through this particular path.
Sure. I mean, I was fortunate enough to become a barrister at the age of 21, 22. So I was quite young when I already had all the accolades. I had an undergrad and I had a barrister degree. I was just 22. So I moved to India at that time. I was one of the youngest in the course also there, everyone else is 26, 27 or 29.
I was the only kid there. So it helped me mature up faster because the people around me are all 5, 7 years elder to me. I was in AZB. Like I said, the matters were so big that 20 lawyers are working on it. But then somehow I just felt that I’m not getting to do the work that I wanted. Because of such magnanimity, you’re not able to do the entire work.
Though everyone is given a specific job, otherwise it’s not going to get done. Only the partner knows the entire case holistically. Otherwise, you all are doing your separate job as needed. So I realized that, let me just understand this. And, I really have the hunger to learn and do cases from start to finish.
I’ll make the index and make the list of dates and draft the petition. I want to argue also. Everything I wanted to do. I want to do it. So I had that little kid in me who never thought things through that time, I was young, so maybe, one day I just decided that no, I don’t want to be a small part of a big project.
I’d rather do the entire project by myself regardless of how small it is. The kid in me never sought advice from anyone also, it was just a pure instinct move and I left. And life taught me a lot of things that way. One case led to another. One thing I learned, you need to be fearless. Fearlessness and stupidity have a very thin line, so you got to be careful there as well.
You got to take your steps slowly, but calculative, but also not be scared. Because the moment you venture out in independent practice, there are a lot of things that you need to be careful of. It’s not just your ego that you want to do it alone. It’s the client’s case at risk. Sometimes it is their freedom if you’re doing bails, sometimes it is their hard earned money if you’re doing a civil case, sometimes it is their house if you’re doing a redevelopment agreement and the issues that come around there, it is their house. If you do it wrong now he’s going to be homeless. So there’s a lot of pressure also, high stake pressure there. You should never be afraid of asking help from anyone. Never think that if you’re asking from help, maybe you’re getting demeaned.
Your job is to ask for help. I remember catching anyone in the Bombay Bar and going and meeting and started talking to them. I still remember 4 years ago, my first office was the High Court library. Because, I couldn’t afford to buy so many books. All these books are very expensive.
Bombay real estate is very expensive. Anywhere you go to rent an office, it’s really expensive. And I was that time around 25, 26, and I didn’t feel right to take money from my father. I’m an independent guy and I had my savings a little bit from a AZB, I thought, let me venture this out. So I’ve seen it from the ground up.
From my days of having my first office in the High Court library with the rotating chairs, whoever sat in your chair, has sat now. So no fixed office that way. So I would think positively, I’d say I have many offices and I have a huge collection of books, which is for free. So that’s where it started.
One thing led to another. You got to be courageous. You got to learn throughout your life. Like you said, I’m very young and I would consider myself to be a student of law forever because law is something where you learn something new every day. Today I may know the law and the other person might come up with a new argument, which is intriguing.
Then I’ll learn something. And the same thing even I have done. Sometimes I might think this is a very foolish argument, but I have won the case on that. I don’t know how judge saw sense in it. Maybe I wasn’t seeing it. So it was a very enthralling experience. Because I didn’t have foresight of which type of case is going to come to me, any client who would repose faith in me and took over that case.
So maybe that way I became fortunate enough to have a very expansive field of practice. I remember doing IBC, oppression mismanagement. I remember having a client who came to me for Armed Forces Tribunal. I have nothing to do with Armed Forces Tribunal, like I’ve been only a commercial litigation lawyer.
It was a very enthralling experience. Then I remember a friend came to me for his share subscription agreement, and lucky for him, he got selected by the Y Combinator and now he has raised a hundred million. So through his journey, like when he was in the nascent stage I did that share subscription, but every round he came back to me because then I understood the startup game, how it is going, what are the common pitfalls businesses face?
What are the challenges founders face? What are the challenges investors face? What are the regulatory requirements that they always overlook? What are the employment law requirements that they generally overlook? And I’m a very big fan of tech, so I keep a note of all of it. So it’s a very good database for me also to sit and analyze across industries so that way the other startups also started.
So they started with the STEM toys and gaming, gambling, then drone tech, health tech. And as lawyers, one thing I’ve always suggested is not just about the law. It is you need to understand the industry better than your client, because then only he’s going to respect you. Only when you know his industry better than him is when he’ll understand, okay, you understand my problem genuinely.
It’s not just the law that you’re telling me. This even online I can see. So it’s very important for you to understand the industry that they’re in. What is the issue in that industry? Because how you say, what is a startup? It’s a innovative or an inventive way of finding solution to a problem. Now, first you should see why haven’t other people done it?
Is it so difficult? Are you Einstein? How did you come up with this? There should be some issue why they’re not doing it. Is there a legal issue? Does the law not allow It? Are the taxes too high? Are the cess too high in that industry? Maybe there’s a high GST. Maybe that’s why it’s not working. Maybe something like Bitcoin where the government is only not clear whether it’s legal or illegal, but yet put 28% tax on it.
So the model is only not viable. So all these things you need to advise clients, even though you’re not expected to know this, but you will only be able to serve your client to the best of interest when you know all these things. So that’s what I’ve learned in my humble experience till now.
It has been a good journey. I hope it gets better.
We would request you to share your experience about how you get called to the Bar by The Honourable Society of Gray’s Inn, the kind of things that one has to do in his or her legal career for that particular qualification of getting as a barrister, it’ll also help the learners, and I would request you also, in case you have some insight about the SQE qualifications, which usually Indian lawyers can qualify and register themselves over there and practice in UK because you already have seen that particular world, there is a possibility that we’ll get to know more about it, obviously from the firsthand experience?
Sure. I mean, I can’t comment much on SQE, but SQE is always, that’s a solicitor route. I think they have changed the name also now. They keep on changing names. Can’t help it. Even for a barrister, during my time it was BPTC.
Now it is BVC, BFC. I don’t know. They keep on changing God knows for what reason, but yeah solicitor is obviously the easiest way for Indians. If you’re going to migrate to the UK. You won’t get right of audience. solicitors don’t have right of audience. You can practice in the lowest court that is a magistrate court or the crown court.
But not above that, above that you need to take another exam or something through which you may get a right of audience. But having said that, for Indians, generally people who are going there, if you think a law firm is the safest bet for you, of course, you would rather do the SQE than do the barrister because obviously you have jobs in law firms which are better paying and more secure.
You might have to work a lot. But obviously it’s way more secure and you have a fixed pay. Coming to the barrister side. First, I’ll just give you a highlight of the process, at least during my time how it was. For us, if we had to do an undergrad in the UK, LLB and then do this, or there’s one more thing called GDL, that is a one year, super law course, as I call it. So we do all the subjects in one year, all the major subjects are trust, law, contract law, Tort law, and criminal. These are the major ones, which everyone has to do. There may be some electives you’ll have to take, but all within one year, so very daunting. For Indian lawyers maybe you can write to the Bar Standards Board, that is the BSB, there to seek an exemption, saying that you have studied, that India is also a common law jurisdiction. How contract law is an act given by them. Mostly the principles. The principles are the same everywhere, in any common law jurisdiction. So if we can make an argument and show that you have some years of practice and seek an exemption from doing the GDL or anything, then comes the course or the BPTC course, maybe whatever the new acronym that they have put in now, I don’t know. So in that, what happens is that, A is that you get into that course. Second is you become a member of one of the four inns of court. So that’s Gray’s Inn, Middle Temple, Inner Temple and Lincoln’s Inn. So from Lincoln’s Inn, you have our Jawaharlal Nehru, from Middle Temple you have Sardar Patelji, from Gray’s Inn we have Mr.Ambedkar. That’s why personally, I had chose Gray’s Inn because of that, since it was the smallest and the youngest. Lincoln’s Inn is the oldest and the biggest. There comes your Inner temple where you had Gandhiji. So, I mean, you become a member of these four inns of court. Some people have their interview process also.
It’s a process that you need to apply, get recommendations. Interviews are being conducted and then you are admitted as a member of the inns of court. So now to get the big call to a bar, you need to do 12 qualifying sessions in the inns of court, which can range from dinners to moots to lectures to trial to mock trials, anything. These all happen in their ancient old halls, which are like all 500 years old or 600 years old. Halls like if you have seen Harry Potter, how they dine. So that dining shoot has happened in Lincoln’s Inn. So that’s how we all barristers used to dine. We all used to go on our big gowns.
And then there’s your master’s table where there’s the king’s councilors and the queen’s councilors and the guests for that time dinner or lecturers come and then we all would sit in sets of two students and two practicing barristers. So that way we could also communicate. We would get to know people in the fraternity.
We get to know their experience. They might also impart some wisdom to us. It was nice. Then comes the hardest part, which are the exams. So your course starts sometime in September and till May, so roughly 6 months, 6 to 8 months. During this period from Jan onwards, your exams will start.
So every month expect to have 3 exams. The exams would be like arbitration. And here all the procedural law comes. Like, remember when I told you the substantive as an undergrad, procedure is there, so your CRPC, CPC, arbitration. Then comes your opinion writing, drafting, cross-examination, examination in chief, presenting an application.
Then comes ethics. So these all courses are there, and you have to get a minimum 60% in each to pass. No one gets above 80, so you need to fall in that middle bracket of 60 to 80. They fail you by one mark also. And the first thing that you hear when you enter the barrister courses, look to your left, look to your right 30% will run away by next month. That is a normal thing. But yeah, it’s fruitful. The experience is fruitful and when you come out you also see the change in you, how your skills have been sharpened, how pinpointed questions you ask and how you present yourself in court. Before the course and after the course are a very different experience.
And I can say this because I know lawyers who were lawyers in Brazil, Argentina, Mexico, and they have come here and done this course, they’ve been practicing for 10 years. They themselves shared that their skills are now sharpened.
You’ve had exposure to global jurisdictions through your legal journey — what major changes did you notice in yourself through this process, and what motivated your return to India? How did you navigate the transition back, and did your familiarity with Delhi help? Additionally, how did you develop the skill of reading clients and understanding the psychology behind cases and businesses?
So, like I said, these are courses that have to be taught in India. So we were taught this day in and day out, so every week we used to have a recorded lecture, like I’m sitting with a professional actor and doing cross-examination or interview of the client, conducting an interview of when he or she has come and told me like I have to prep them for the cross-examination tomorrow.
So I’m like, okay, come, let’s sit. I’ll ask you a few questions you have to answer. You need to understand what question not to ask. And you’re trained in? These things are very important. People in India always say we will learn through practice. Even if I was in India, I would also like to learn through practice, I can read about it.
But I didn’t know there were books like these. There are very nice books written out there regarding opinion writing or client management or conducting cross-examination, even for pleadings. I remember the first book I bought was How to Plead Without Tears. I’m forgetting the author, but that was the title of the book, the first book I borrowed from the library.
So these are things, like I said, when I was in India, I didn’t know of this. Once I went there and when a professional actor, and usually the teachers are the ones who are practicing barristers, so these are part-time teachers, technically they’re only coming for that one course. And then going back to their practicing scene.
So they would give their personal anecdotes, give you more wisdom, and that is very important in shaping my ideology also. Second thing is how in India people take a lot of their friends, family cases. Though it is not illegal, the Advocates Act only doesn’t allow you to appear for blood relatives.
But generally what they taught me and why I clearly agree was especially in litigation, if not corporate, is you should be fully independent. The moment you have a client in litigation with whom you have a personal relation or anything, it’s not that it is illegal or anything, I would say that your judgment is clogged because then you start taking it personally.
And also you are not being true to the ethical values because if you see your duty towards the court is paramount, it’s above your duty towards the client. That’s what the advocates act also says. When you have somewhat vested interest. I’m not saying monetary only because he’s your friend, maybe you’re a bit more emotional about that case.
Maybe it’s your relative, you’re a bit more emotional. It clouds your judgment. You’re not able to understand the counter-arguments, and that’s when the other lawyer who is totally independent will get the better of you. Because more often than not in court, you can write 10,000 pages of pleadings.
The judge is only gonna listen to you, to the council. So 90% is a council, 10% obviously, you can’t plead facts, which you haven’t submitted in your pleadings, but as to law especially. Unless you are independent, your judgment will be clogged. And that’s my personal experience . And that’s the main thing that I was taught there.
And I completely agree with that.
Over the course of your career, you have appeared in various cases at the Supreme Court of India as well, which are of significant matter. If you don’t mind sharing some of the highlights of a few intriguing cases, also, the kind of complexities and how you navigate through that whole process.
Because as you were trained to do that particular research at length, how have you made sure that you do it in a limited period of time that is given to you, and how have you navigated the whole process?
Actually more than that, I would add one more. Not just a limited period of time, but also the limited period of speaking time that you get in the court.
The Supreme court is a very different practice than any other court, unless you are a very known face of how like the big stalwarts are, the court wants to listen to them. Everyone in the audience also wants to listen to them. When Mr. Sibal talks, Mr. Singhvi talks, all these all these are like songs when they’re talking, we are like please keep going, even if it is for hours because we get to learn so much from them.
When someone like me steps in, who still has only one or two gray hair, they don’t listen to you. They’ll give you probably 2 minutes, 5 minutes if they are generous, or maybe it’s very contentious. The longest I’ve gone is half an hour, and as we know, 9 out of 10 cases are thrown on the pre notice change. In the Supreme Court there’s a very old saying, if you have notice issued then 80% of the case is won. Then you get to know if your true counsel, if you’re able to get the case dismissed after the notice is issued, because getting the notice issue is a very high threshold. Something like the Supreme Court, I mean cases which are very close to my heart is one I remember I argued, Lieutenant’s matter.
I was fortunate enough to appear before the Additional Solicitor General of India. We had a lot of heated arguments. It was a matter of Article 21 right to life. My client was paralyzed and he was being invalidated from service and also asked to leave the hospital. Where will a paralyzed man go?
That was the biggest thing. Where do we let the paralyzed man go? We can’t just leave him on the streets. So that was a very interesting argument. He brought in Article 21. We used a little bit of our own brain process, like they were throwing him out of the hospital. And I started asking for a release, which relates to US surgery.
I took them to the US and the judge, I remember Deepanker Dutta was there and he’s like, you want surgery in the US? Where do you think you are? This is in India, like this, do you think we send everyone to the US? So then I was like, okay sir, please give it to me in AIMS only then. He’s like he is already in a government hospital now, I was like but they’re removing him, and he’s like no, no, he can be there. That’s what I ultimately wanted.
So it was good. So that was one case that I’m really proud of. That was my first pro bono case. I thought at least I did whatever I could for the client, unfortunately he is no more. Then another, I remember my first case was against Mr. M.R.Shah, it was small, I mean, I won’t consider it small that way. It was a very small point of law where the workers were supposed to be given compensation.
Poor workers were being tortured and tormented. Somewhere in 2002 during construction, they fell. One person severed their hand, 20 people fell like that, and the contractor and the agency weren’t giving them their insurance amount. I remember I appeared before Mr.M.R.Shah And no one appeared for the respondents.
He asked me pinpointed questions. And before me, mine was serial number 11, I remember, the first 10 were dismissed. First 10 were dismissed, or no one got notice issued. I was there and the respondents didn’t appear. He grilled me for 10 minutes and I was like, why is this guy doing this to me?
These are poor people. And I was still young. I was just 26, 27 years old. These are poor people, they deserve their thing, unnecessarily this appeal has been filed too after a delay, and the High Court for reasons best known to them allowed the appeal. So after I filed this, he grilled, grilled, grilled.
Then suddenly I saw an order where he has given me, he has issued notice, and he has written some good things about me like counsel vehemently argued. So these small pleasures of life that you enjoy. You like why you are doing this job. Law is something which is…, I mean, sure monetary aspect is there, but you can’t join this profession, especially litigation if you are just looking at the monetary aspect because more often than not, you will have many clients who cannot afford, but you really wanna help them because ultimately they have no other way to get justice.
So council practice is very different, and if you’re only looking at the monetary aspect, I would suggest don’t get to council practice that easily unless you have a lot of monetary support.
I’m pretty sure you must have gone through a lot of these kinds of exciting cases where you not only learn, but others also have learned from you. Can you share your experience about advising the investors and acting as an external legal counsel, especially for drone tech manufacturers, and you are also involved in the agricultural sector, the drone use in the agricultural sector.
How have you approached that? What kind of due diligence is conducted? The kind of agreements that are made, or how do you actually address the issues or challenges in these legal fees, which are actually emerging industries. How have you gotten into this and how do you see that technology is going to be a change factor for legal practice itself?
See, tech is coming and everywhere, everything nowadays tech is being added. Legal tech is there. Drone tech is there. The other day I met someone who was into spiritual tech. I don’t know what that means. I dunno what that means but I’m intrigued to know, like you specifically asked about drone tech.
And actually recently I met another client, which is into anti drone tech. He is like everyone’s making a drone, I’ll make an anti drone. So it’s very interesting what’s going on. Specifically if you talk about agritech in combination with drone tech, a lot of things come in, A, obviously licensing. You can’t just fly a drone.
You need your DGCA license. You need licensed pilots, you need trained pilots. You need a proper training school. You need to make sure that the data that you are collecting, you have taken consent. Consent is most important. And, the DPDP act, though it has come, the rules haven’t come, so you’re not able to enforce it.
Some people have already found loopholes. Some people are like, okay, tech as if it is online, I’m gonna write a ticket for it, and then process the data. So unless case laws come, we can’t navigate through all this. A lot of SPDI rules, information tech. Now drones are also flying. Now a lot of times happened like, had an instance scenario where the drone fell and it burned the entire crop.
Who is liable? Insurance company saying we are not liable to pay because we covered the drone catching on fire and falling while we are not responsible for this crop. And fortunately, unfortunately, everything was dry grass. What do you do? The villagers have tied the pilot who had come to fly the drone.
They’re not leaving him, giving the money back. So these are complex issues which come around. You have to navigate, you have to get proper insurance and such things. You need to make sure that the testing for the drone is right. The pilot who’s been given the drone is safe, secure, properly licensed.
The data that you’re using, you have full consent to, not only to collect, but also to monetize it. Otherwise, tomorrow you might have a claim from the landowner who will say, I’m also part owner of this data. Such complications are always going to come. You need to make sure that there’s a proper title towards those drones as well.
A lot of people imagine that the drone falls where it is, the drone is 10 kilometers away from you. A lot of people take the parts and run away. That also happens. Someone say, this is mine. So security also has to be taken care of. It’s a very niche industry that you need to take care of. I need to also, every time, sit with the founders and see what their vision is.
Is your job just to spray pesticides through a drone? Covering 20 kilometers? Fair. Is your job also to put an infrared camera and see what is the output of this? Where all is the pesticide spraying, where it is spraying, where the output coming is less or more. All these are important issues which need to ask the founders as to how they are gonna navigate.
Do they plan on having this and monetizing this, or they just want to set up a company? So all these questions need to ask in accordingly, different, different acts coming. So it has to do a lot with what the founder’s vision is. If you have very low business capacity and very low investment, maybe just a simple drone with the pesticide you will need to just spray it.
You wanna go through a high tech process, output data, input data, get every small thing about the crop. Is this crop good, viable? What vegetable should grow there? This all requires a lot of SPDI rules. DPDP rules, information tech rules. A lot of things happen.
Given your diverse national and international experience, what advice would you offer to legal aspirants entering tech-related fields, especially in terms of necessary qualities, strategic preparation, and managing mental health alongside the demands of a legal career?
See, obviously, law, especially litigation as a profession, I would suggest only do it if you have the passion for it. And especially when you are independent, like how I am. Work-life balance has no meaning only. If you don’t have work, you’ll be sitting in anxiety.
If you have work, you’ll be very grateful to God and you’ll work till 4 am also. So for me, I just can’t relate to it. Maybe when I was working in a law firm, yeah. I would say, oh, why am I getting called at 2:00 AM in the night? I don’t wanna work, I wanna sleep. Now I get a call at 2:00 AM the night. Yes, of course I’ll be there.
So it’s very different perspectives. The day I left and I saw I’m loving what I’m doing, I work any hour because I get that excitement. Until you’re getting that excitement, everything seems like a chore then I mean, you won’t wanna do it as and when you like. So only enter this profession if you have that passion. Second, you have to keep your diet very well, because the problem with this is we are in a desk job.
This is all a desk job, so use bound to gain weight, especially the way things are out here now. Eating outside, unhealthy, unfiltered, questionable oil food. It’s going to take a toll on your mental health because the only way your physical health is fine is when this is going to be fine. And considering with so much involvement of technology and everything, mental health does take a huge shift.
So always suggest everyone to keep everything disciplined. Learn to work out for at least half an hour a day. Eat healthy, eat home food. Best part, nothing will happen. If you eat home, you eat puri at home, it’s fine as long as it’s home food. The outside oil you don’t know what’s in there, They’re cooking in the same oil for 10 days.
Second, obviously the passion has to be there and everything ultimately flows from the Constitution. I have it right here. This is the father of everything, every time you have a doubt. What is this law? I’m not understand. Read from where it has come. It has to come from the Constitution, only the Constitution gives that authority, the power to make that law. So the day you understand Constitutions. All your issues regarding complexity of laws will go and any new law which also comes, you will know how to understand it if you understand the Constitution. So every law student, I always suggest that constitutional law is not just for someone who practices in the red jurisdictions or only the Supreme Court.
It is for everyone because you could be doing corporate anything, but to interpret that statute, you need to understand the Constitution, and this is the golden rule for everything.
Can you share what inspired you to pursue a career in law and how you embarked on this journey?
Growing up, I always had a keen interest in understanding the intricacies of systems, whether economic, social, or legal. However, after completing my Economics Honors degree, I was still determining my next steps and decided to take the Delhi University LLB exam. The decision to sit for the Delhi University LLB exam was initially driven by practical considerations; law seemed like a vocational course with promising career prospects.
However, as I delved into my law studies, I developed a keen interest in commercial laws, particularly in the area of Intellectual Property (IP). This interest was sparked during internships at leading IP firms, where I witnessed the importance of trademarks and other IP elements in protecting business identities and innovations. My enthusiasm for law translated into academic success; I consistently ranked among the top 5% of my batch, which comprised around 800 students. My dedication led to an opportunity with Anand & Anand, a prestigious IP firm, which marked the beginning of my professional journey in law. What started as a pragmatic decision evolved into a fulfilling career focused on the intricate and impactful field of IP law.
You’ve managed high-stakes litigation for leading companies. Can you describe one of the most challenging cases you’ve handled and the key takeaways from that experience?
In my career, I’ve been involved in several trademark litigations, successfully enforcing rights related to brand names, logos, trade dresses, copyrights, and other similar IP rights. One of the most challenging cases I’m currently handling is an ongoing appeal at the Delhi High Court in a patent matter. The dispute centers around the appropriate jurisdiction for filing an appeal against a refusal order issued by the Delhi Patent Office, despite the patent application being initially filed in Mumbai. We contend that the Delhi High Court should have jurisdiction since the refusal order was passed in Delhi.
The case took a complex turn when a single judge bench at the Delhi High Court declared the appeal non-maintainable. We have now escalated the matter to a division bench, seeking a reconsideration of the jurisdictional issue. This case is particularly intriguing as it could set a precedent for similar jurisdictional disputes in IP law. The outcome will significantly impact the strategic considerations for patent litigation in India. The ongoing appeal is a testament to the complexities and nuances involved in IP litigation and underscores the importance of jurisdictional clarity in legal proceedings. [FILO EDTECH INC. Vs UNION OF INDIA LPA 375/2024]
As an expert in Intellectual Property Law, what do you consider the most critical elements when managing trademark prosecution and litigation?
In managing trademark prosecution and litigation, I find that the most critical elements revolve around preparation, strategy, and adaptability. First and foremost, comprehensive research is key. Before filing a trademark, it’s crucial to conduct thorough searches to ensure the mark is distinctive and doesn’t infringe on existing rights. This groundwork helps avoid potential conflicts and sets a solid foundation for the trademark’s protection.
Another important aspect is strategic planning. Anticipating challenges whether, during the prosecution phase or in potential litigation, allows us to develop a proactive approach. For instance, being prepared for opposition or knowing when to negotiate versus litigate can significantly influence the outcome.
Communication also plays a vital role. Clear and persuasive communication with clients, examiners, and even opposing parties can make a big difference. Whether, it’s drafting responses to office actions or presenting arguments in court, articulating our position effectively is crucial.
Lastly, I believe in staying adaptive and informed. The landscape of IP law is constantly evolving, so keeping up with the latest legal developments and industry trends is essential. This not only helps in staying ahead of the curve but also in providing the best possible advice to clients.
Overall, it’s a mix of thorough preparation, strategic thinking, clear communication, and continuous learning that I find most critical in managing trademark prosecution and litigation.
What emerging trends in corporate and intellectual property law do you believe will shape the future of legal practice, and how should legal professionals prepare for these changes?
Emerging trends in corporate and intellectual property law are increasingly shaped by advancements in technology, particularly AI. AI is revolutionizing how we draft legal documents, from contracts to IP pleadings, by streamlining the process and handling repetitive tasks more efficiently. This shift is exciting because it allows us to focus more on the strategic aspects of our work and provides clients with faster turnaround times. However, while AI can handle many routine tasks, we legal professionals must remember that the nuanced understanding and strategic insight we bring to the table can’t be replicated by machines.
To prepare for these changes, we need to embrace technology and stay updated on the latest tools and trends. Learning how to use AI effectively will enhance our productivity, but we should also focus on developing skills that complement these tools, such as critical thinking and personalized client interactions. By combining technological proficiency with our unique legal expertise, we can continue to add significant value and remain indispensable in a rapidly evolving legal landscape.
You developed an online certificate course on Copyrights for Lawctopus. How do you see the role of online education in shaping the future of legal training?
Online education is revolutionizing legal training by making valuable knowledge more accessible and affordable. Platforms like Lawctopus, where I developed a course on Copyrights, exemplify how online courses provide keen learners with the opportunity to dive deep into specialized areas of law without the constraints of traditional, lengthy, and costly degrees. For me, online courses have been a game-changer. When I wanted to expand my practice to include complex corporate law assignments such as multi-jurisdictional M&As, advisory on equity structures, cross-border transactions, and corporate restructuring, these well-crafted courses allowed me to gain the necessary expertise efficiently and economically.
The beauty of online education lies in its ability to offer flexible learning options that cater to various levels of expertise and interest. It empowers professionals to stay current with evolving legal trends and deepen their knowledge base, all from the comfort of their own homes. This democratization of education not only enhances individual careers but also contributes to a more knowledgeable and agile legal community.
Outside of your professional life, do you have any hobbies or interests that you feel contribute to your legal thinking or problem-solving skills?
Outside of my professional life, my hobbies play a significant role in enhancing my legal thinking and problem-solving skills. I’m an avid reader with a broad range of interests, including fiction, history, and philosophy. Additionally, I have a strong interest in personal development literature, which offers valuable insights into human behaviour and decision-making. This diverse reading habit sharpens my critical thinking and helps me approach legal issues from multiple perspectives, enriching my problem-solving abilities.
Travelling is another passion that complements my legal work. Exploring different cultures and engaging with people from various backgrounds provides me with unique viewpoints and approaches to problem-solving. This exposure fosters a more adaptable and open-minded approach, which is essential for tackling complex legal challenges. Both reading widely and travelling allow me to bring fresh insights and innovative solutions to my legal practice.
As someone deeply involved in the legal aspects of emerging technologies, what do you see as the most pressing IP challenges in areas like AI and cybersecurity?
In the realm of AI, one major challenge is defining and protecting intellectual property rights for innovations that are driven by machine learning algorithms. Determining ownership of AI-generated inventions or works can be complex, especially when AI systems are creating novel solutions without direct human intervention. This raises questions about patentability and copyright, and whether current IP frameworks are adequate for these advancements.
In cybersecurity, the challenge is ensuring that our intellectual property is safe from cyber threats. One notable example was when I was involved in a case where a company’s proprietary encryption algorithms were compromised during a sophisticated cyber-attack. The breach not only jeopardized their trade secrets but also raised complex questions about the effectiveness of their security measures and their legal obligations to protect their IP.
A key technical challenge here was understanding the intricacies of how the encryption was bypassed. This required working closely with cybersecurity experts to assess the vulnerability and determine how it could have been exploited. We had to delve into the specifics of the encryption technology, analyze the breach, and then figure out how to fortify the IP protection moving forward. This experience highlighted the need for a legal approach that’s deeply integrated with the technical aspects of cybersecurity. It’s not just about having legal protections in place but also understanding the technology to ensure that our IP safeguards are robust and adaptable to evolving threats.
Considering your diverse experience, if you could create a new area of IP law to address future challenges, what would it be and why?
If I could create a new area of IP law, it would focus on AI-generated innovations and Ownership Rights. As AI technology advances, it’s increasingly capable of generating new inventions, designs, and creative works autonomously. However, current IP frameworks are struggling to keep up with these developments, particularly in defining ownership and protection for AI-generated outputs.
The new area of law would address several key issues: establishing clear guidelines for determining ownership of AI-generated inventions, defining the role of human contributors versus AI systems, and creating a framework for protecting AI-created intellectual property. This would involve setting standards for patent and copyright eligibility when an AI is the primary creator and resolving disputes related to the rights of the developers versus the AI itself.
This proposed IP domain is crucial because it would ensure that as AI continues to innovate, the legal system can adequately protect and manage these advancements. It would help address the gaps in current IP laws and provide a structured approach to the future of creativity and invention in the age of AI.
You’ve witnessed the rise of digital platforms and their impact on IP. How do you envision trademark and copyright law evolving to address challenges in the digital space?
On the trademark front, online counterfeiting is a significant menace that demands more effective legal measures. In the digital landscape, where brands are prevalent across social media, online marketplaces, and app stores, companies face persistent issues with unauthorized use of their trademarks. This often involves numerous counterfeiters operating anonymously or under false identities, making it challenging to address each instance individually. Therefore, trademark law needs to implement more robust policies and practices to combat these widespread infringements efficiently. Instead of pursuing multiple litigations against individual offenders, we need a streamlined approach that can address these issues comprehensively and proactively.
As regards copyright, the digital revolution has made it incredibly easy to copy and distribute content, which complicates enforcement. I’ve dealt with cases where copyrighted materials were pirated across multiple platforms, making it a daunting task to track and address infringement. The law will need to evolve with better digital rights management tools and more effective takedown procedures. Additionally, as user-generated content becomes more widespread, we need to rethink how copyright law balances protecting original works by accommodating the way people build upon and remix existing content. This may involve developing new legal frameworks that both safeguard the rights of original creators and support the collaborative and adaptive nature of digital creativity.
As someone who’s navigated law firms, what insights can you share about the different dynamics and challenges in these environments?
Navigating law firms across different cities has given me a unique perspective on the varying dynamics and challenges in these environments. While the essence of law firms remains consistent—a client-driven focus aiming to provide top-notch services and build strong portfolios—there are notable differences influenced by local practices and court systems.
For instance, I’ve observed distinct operational nuances between law firms in cities like Delhi and Mumbai. The Delhi High Court and the Bombay High Court, for example, have different procedural practices and court cultures. Understanding these regional variations helps law firms tailor their strategies and services to better meet local demands and navigate the specific challenges of each jurisdiction. It also highlights the importance of adaptability and local expertise in providing effective legal solutions across different cities.
“This is the era of technological dynamism where the web, blockchain and AI are making a lot of changes in the world. The legal field is not an exception to this and a lot of things are happening in both the legal world as well in the legal profession. So, obviously the lawyers who are the forerunners in this profession are adopting this technology induced change and they can only survive by doing that.My advice to the young generation of lawyers would be to adopt this technological change very fast. They should be the fastest runners, otherwise, they will be out of the race. Especially AI is causing a lot of job loss in the legal profession..”
– Ajmal Khan Nadakkal, Partner & Head of Corporate Khalifa Bin Huwaidan Alketbi.
Mr.Ajmal Khan Nadakkal is based in Dubai and he has more than two decades of experience with a wealth of expertise in setting up regulated and non-regulated firms all across Europe, Africa and the Far East, as well as in major cities and states in India. He has a proven track record of handling complex corporate issues, including compliance and anti money laundering policies, taxation matters, and real estate transactions to name a few.
We would like to start our journey of question answers by asking you what inspired you to pursue a career in law, and please share your story of reaching to the top.
I’m a first generation lawyer. There are no other lawyers in my family and my family circle. From my school days, I had a passion to become a lawyer. I don’t know exactly what the reasons are, but there was definitely one teacher who really influenced me and he is the person who persuaded me to become a lawyer. So from those days, I was always thinking about how to become a lawyer. Then after my pre-degree, I tried my law entrance exams and got into a law college. It was definitely not an accident. I should be honest about the fact that I came to this profession by choice.
So when this was an inspired choice and you made it with all the diligence, what prompted your decision to transition from practicing law in India, then to Dubai as well?
After college, I started my career in the local courts- District Court, Manjeri. I practiced for almost six to seven years there, in Manjeri and other Courts and then I got an opportunity to switch to an in-house legal counsel role in Bangalore. In fact, that is the reason I got to a different domain of legal field. When I took up that opportunity, I got a lot of exposure. I traveled a lot across India to handle various complex legal issues for the group, to meet regulatory authorities. Also, I traveled outside India for investment facilitations. regulatory setting ups, then also got the scope of liaison with various international law firms for handling their legal issues. This gave me a really good exposure and then I felt, international legal opportunities are bigger and I should explore more if I can get an opportunity.Luckily again I got an opportunity in the UAE. Then I took up that assignment and came to Dubai. That is how I shifted.
What difference have you seen in the kind of practice we do in India as lawyers and the kind of practice you may have seen in Dubai? And when you compare these two how do you support this transition? Let’s say if someone obviously wants to move, what kind of lookout they should have in making that transition because you have smoothly sailed this.
The Indian legal system is more traditional, which is derived from different customs and different complex laws. It took centuries to evolve that legal system. So it has its plus and minus also. We always carry that baggage of our history, even in the legal system, which causes a lot of, you know, delay in the legal proceedings and complexities. Even though now we are trying to make big changes by technology ventures and all, but still the Indian legal system is too complex and people are facing a lot of difficulties, especially the delay in the litigation, dispute resolution, then red tapism everywhere.
We cannot avoid this and that is the problem.When I switched to UAE, I realised that this system does not carry much history. It is a new law and new entities, a new legal system. It was a Sharia backed legal system, but when the international business opportunities came to UAE, the rulers were really pushing the business opportunities and trying to be the global hub. During this time, they developed the legal system and the laws also to that standard, very fast developing and, technologically advanced and which always cater the needs of the business people. They gave priority to the business people who are going to come to the UAE and invest. So accordingly they made rapid changes and that favours a person who is making strong decisions, as there is nothing to curtail that speed. This is because one person can take the decision here without being impacted by many complexities.
That is the major difference. It’s all new and transparent, moving at a very fast rate, which makes the legal dispute resolution effective. People get a quick solution to their problem when they are approaching the courts and dispute resolution authorities. This helps them to continue with their business further. In our place, sometimes it even takes decades, especially in case of family disputes. So these are major differences I could feel in the two domains. So for somebody who wants to shift from India to Dubai, my advice is that there are a lot of opportunities here, and you can cater to the world and you can feel the international legal complexities here because of the presence of almost all the nationalities, whose disputes range from personal issues to business disputes. Now because of the estate planning and foundation trust systems here,people from different parts of the world are setting up the foundation and trust here taking advantage of the easy environment,giving a lot of opportunities to new lawyers.
The only thing is they have to be very fast in upgrading themselves and follow the new developments in the legal field, especially, with the help of technology. Technological advancement is also very much required, which is something the Indian legal system is still not that advanced for which even the law colleges in India are also lagging behind in this. So these are the things they should always keep in mind when they are planning to switch to Dubai.
You have talked quite a bit about dispute resolution mechanisms as well, and you specialize in managing these disputes, especially related to commodity derivative trading, investments, forex, gold, and bullion trading as well. We would request you to elaborate a little bit about these areas and their significance in the legal field, because it is an absolute niche of the niche field and most of us are eager to understand these fields and try and see the future in it.
I was also very new to this domain when I joined the in-house team in Bangalore, but that group I was associated with was into online trading, forex, commodity derivatives, securities, and that kind of a domain. So, obviously I happened to handle a lot of that kind of complex issues, disputes, crisis management and learned about trading -forex trading ,leverage trading And futures trading. I had to learn all these things. In fact, I would say I started an account and lost some money and learned from that experience too because without practical training this is almost impossible. After a year or two I realised that I was really struggling to cope up with this environment so I decided to start an account in trade because that gave me a lot of insights, how the positions have to be taken, how the leverage trading happens, how the margins are called for. This gave me a lot of input when I switched to Dubai and started my legal career. The legal profession here really helped me because UAE is also a place of online trading, leverage trading and all people sitting here are trading across different platforms across the world and also here.
In India, though there is a clear regulation about online trading licensing and regulation which all has to happen, still people are using shortcut methods and opening up phishing companies to fraud like taking people’s money and then vanishing. Many people lose their money because they don’t know what this regulation is, they are just fantasized with this leverage trading and the opportunity to make big money swiftly.
The marketing people always give them the positive and never the negatives. So they open the account and start trading. Then in the demo, they will show some profits while in real time they will lose. They can’t even pump in for the margin calls, so obviously they will lose the money.
So many such disputes came and which came to me. So as a person who understands this domain, whenever a client comes and discusses this with me, we will get the synergy. And I have managed a lot of such disputes. In many of the issues, I managed to get back their money and in some of the cases, the accused were convicted, definitely in many of the cases, the people who vanished, we cannot do much, but still we can educate the people and also the companies who wanted to regulate and do it in a streamlined way.
They also started approaching us because of their domain knowledge. So this has become a real opportunity for me and also my team members to learn about this leverage trading and domain. Now we have started a division where we are setting up regulated entities in UAE and abroad because of this domain knowledge.
What kind of critical factors do you consider while dealing in corporate structuring and restructuring? Because they are definitely out of reach of most of us. We don’t understand that, or it is not taught in schools or colleges. Now, how do you see that platform can be built in order to make sure that these subjects reach to most of the students so that you also get a little workforce because as I can understand having that kind of the niche, you end up having very limited number of people with that understanding?So how do you see that happening anytime sooner in future?
Corporate structuring is a very important aspect of the business. Especially when somebody is starting a business, they should structure their business in a proper legal manner. What entity they should start, where is the destination they should start the business, what kind of license they should take up, and how the shareholding has to be allotted, and how the control mechanism has to be managed.All these kinds of things are very, very crucial when somebody starts a business. So, since we have a lot of this experience, we are able to advise all the entrepreneurs properly how to structure their business in the initial phase. Here, one thing, in UAE, most of the people who came here in seventies, eighties and nineties. Most of them are not very educated. They came here chasing their dreams. They faced a lot of struggles, hardships in the initial phase. They worked and then they started small businesses with whatever available corporate sector at that time was available, the legal corporate sector, then they started it like a civil company or a sole establishment and so on.
Then their business ventures grew really fast, beyond their imagination. Many of the big businesses here have all started like that and after reaching this stage of growth ,they are apprehensive about the fact that when the next generation is going to be onboarded the legal sector would not be intact and that it should be rectified as well. This is a very critical position because already the business is loaded and there is a lot of exposure . From here if they want to restructure their existing legal corporate system, this needs real advice, a proper advice with experience which only experienced persons can do because they need real time solutions.
It is in this area that we advise a lot of clients now who are passing their business to the next generations -How to structure the holding company, create foundation and trust to manage their will and wish in the subsequent generations and if the next generation is not interested in the business and a working partner is onboarded, how to sector the company in that way.
We also advise on creating an ESOP by stimulating the business through that channel.These are all things in which we really need proper advice and here liesour experience, that we gathered from the last 10 to 14 years of having real time experience in Dubai.
You started as a first generation lawyer, and now you own a company which works for all these corporate structuring, restructuring and licensing agreements. We would request you to elaborate on that as well.
I was part of a local law firm as a partner for the last 10 plus years and then recently, last year, we got a license of a legal consultancy in Abu Dhabi, which is named ABS Partners Legal Consultancy, otherwise the mainland was not allowing legal consultancy licenses. This is a recent development and we are one of the very few lawyers who got this license in our own names. In that we strategize these kinds of activities, especially this corporate structuring, estate planning, regulatory licensing, trademarks and intellectual laws, all these specific areas, especially the central bank licensing, Crypto licensing, VARA and other regulatory ESCA. So those kinds of activities we do in that legal consultancy license, which is based in Abu Dhabi.
Sir, about the ABS partners, which is doing this kind of work and you are one of the very first lawyers you have got in Dubai, the kind of transition you have seen when you were doing it in India as an Indian lawyer and when you are doing it in Dubai, when has it started? Because if I remember correctly, very recently, Dubai introduced its legal system in January this year. So would you care to elaborate on that as well, please?
In the UAE, Dubai and Abu Dhabi are the major hubs. Dubai is still very strict on issuing legal consultancy licenses in the mainland to foreign lawyers. They have a regulation, but it is a bit stringent. It is not easy to get a license there, unless we have three international branches and all. But Abu Dhabi relaxed it a bit in the last year. We got a license almost a year back now. It was last year they introduced this and maybe the second or third license is issued in our name and we should have 10 plus years standing in the UAE. Since me and my partners had this eligibility criteria we applied and got it and now we are developing that to a different level, towards a niche area.
I have to cater to the niche area, which is not much explored by the other lawyers and law firms.
So while you are doing all these things, which are very much corporate centric, you must be going through a lot of mediation and conflict resolution techniques also. How do you make sure that you employ effective techniques for these and what kind of further assistance do you provide?
Because in mediation, it’s not only the end of the case, it’s like, it is just a kind of start if there is any conflict over there. So how do you cater to such clients? And there are clients who must be very, very, very big and not that approachable. How do you make sure that everything is done in the best manner possible for them?
Basically, we are business lawyers and we have a very good connection in the business world. So obviously when some issues happen, some disputes happen, they will ask us for solutions. Obviously always the first method is to try and amicably settle the dispute.
While getting into an amicable settlement area, I always try to understand the client psychology. We need to understand the client’s situation as of now. What is his financial capacity or whether he’s really in a bad shape or this dispute is derived from the ego of the business people. This kind of initial knowledge is what we need to gather, only then can we effectively mediate a dispute. When it comes ultimately, what I realized is everybody, if we can convince them properly to avoid a lengthy litigation and a time consuming process, they will always try to find a way for mediation and settlements.
Only in mediation and settlement, we should not have any agenda. We should try to resolve the matter in accordance with the requirements of both the people. So there, our expertise and experience again, we can give different options. If one option is not comfortable for the person, we can give another option.This is all by experience that we can now give different options and scenarios where we can effectively do dispute resolutions. And we have done quite a lot of such dispute resolutions as well.
Can you share any kind of case which can be very educating for learners as well. If at all you can.
Yeah. Recently, one scenario is where a local stake was involved. The locals were very adamant while the other people were the actual investors. But the local was just a sponsor, with some agreed terms. This was a big business house, and this was almost on a deadlock because both were fighting.As it came to me, I tried to understand the actual reason behind this local person’s issues and then I realized that he has a genuine cause for this as whatever the investors agreed with him initially, this was not honored.
Conveniently, the locals were not asking, not demanding, so they were not giving as well. But when they are parting from the partnership, obviously he asked for his latkes to be honoured. Then I convinced the other party, instead of losing the entire business for a small amount, honour the right because all these years, almost 20, 25 years, he did justice. It was in his name, but still he helped the investor in all ways to build the empire. So with this kind of convincing, the dispute was settled very smoothly and they are still good friends now.
I’m just a reason for it as actually there is not much difference between them. This is where sometimes a mediator is required so that the roles can be effectively played by knowing the psychology of the people. That’s it!
Sir, in all this, there is a lot of technology disruption happening even in the legal field worldwide. How do you see it is going to work out for us lawyers on national and international platforms both, as well as what kind of areas do you see are going to come up or are already there, which are bringing a different kind of practice, even in business laws or in business entities?
This is the era of technological dynamism where the web, blockchain and AI are making a lot of changes in the world. The legal field is not an exception to this and a lot of things are happening in both the legal world as well in the legal profession. So, obviously the lawyers who are the forerunners in this profession are adopting this technology induced change and they can only survive by doing that.My advice to the young generation of lawyers would be to adopt this technological change very fast. They should be the fastest runners, otherwise, they will be out of the race. AI is causing a lot of job loss in the legal profession.
But to me, as I have realized, AI is also giving a lot of opportunities to lawyers in terms of precedence search, the formats, many of the things, especially the legal research, everything is made very easy now because of the AI advancement and these kinds of things, the new lawyers should learn. They should be very fast in learning the new technologies, especially the blockchain, the web. Now, it is going to be a different era than the web. So with these technology adoptions they should do and then cope with the new trends in the law and in the technology.
Sir, how have you driven your life with these kinds of philosophies? And would you care to share some of them with us for us to get inspired as well? How have you lived your life and how have you achieved all this in your legal career?
I’m very savvy with technology, but what I do is I employ associates with good knowledge of technology and I learn from them.There is no hesitation in learning from the juniors when it comes to technology because they are my masters and there’s no ego on this. We should learn from the new generation. My son teaches me about new technology. My daughter teaches me about this. This should be our approach when we are not good in something we should learn from who is good in this.
Then about the philosophy of my career, we should be very transparent and we should not compromise our professional ethics. However, rewarding the other opportunity is there. We should not compromise our professional ethics. If we compromise, that will give you some gain, short term gain, but it will never give you a long term mileage.
Your professional advancement is possible only when you build a reputation. That is very crucial, which I always try to stick on
How do you make sure that you have your own time for your mental health, for your personal life and obviously for other activities as well?
Yes, the personal space is for my family and my small entertainments. I always kept that space, from the beginning itself. I like traveling. I like Hindi songs, then family time. I always try to find time for this. Even though my family will always complain but still, I’m always trying to find some time, especially two days in a week. I always try to give my family time.
Sir, thank you so much for such positive thoughts and sharing it with us. And it has been a learning experience that there are certain niche fields which our learners can look up to and can reach out to you as well.
And once again, thank you for agreeing to be on SuperLawyer YouTube channel. And it has been a pleasure, sir. Thank you so much for being here. Absolute pleasure
Reflecting on your journey from college to becoming a Managing Partner at Lawgical Associates, could you share what initially inspired you to pursue a career in law? What experiences or influences shaped your decision to specialize in diverse areas such as labor law, corporate law, and sexual harassment laws?
From my earliest memories, the legal world was ingrained in my upbringing. I come from a family of lawyers and judges and growing up in such a family where law was not just a profession but a way of life, I was surrounded by discussions about cases, debates over legal principles, and the importance of justice. As I delved deeper into my legal studies, I became fascinated by the complexity and diversity of legal issues. I realized that the law touches every aspect of our lives, from business transactions to workplace dynamics and individual rights. This realization motivated me to explore different areas of law and develop expertise in various specialties.
Corporate law appealed to me because of its intersection with business and commerce, offering opportunities to work with diverse clients and navigate complex legal frameworks. Abor and employment law was an extension of my experience as a HR professional. It brings in a human element while engaging with real people be it employer, employee or unions. Labor law has a potential for social impact as you have to handle a diverse range of issues.
My interest in sexual harassment laws stemmed from a deep commitment to combatting gender-based discrimination and creating safer, more inclusive workplaces. I recognized the importance of addressing workplace harassment and discrimination and saw an opportunity to make a meaningful impact through legal advocacy and representation while holding perpetrators accountable.
Overall, my decision to pursue a career in law and specialize in diverse areas was shaped by a combination of personal passion, intellectual curiosity, and a desire to contribute to positive social change. As I progressed in my career and eventually became a Managing Partner at Lawgical Associates, I remained committed to these core values and dedicated myself to using my legal expertise to serve clients and advocate for justice in all its forms.
Your educational journey is quite diverse, starting with a B.Com followed by an MBA before transitioning to law. What motivated this transition?
My family was very professionally driven and encouraged us to have a professional career of our choice and an identity of our own. I did B.Com and MBA in HR as I wanted to be professionally qualified. Post my MBA I worked in private Organizations including Telco wherein I realised that having a law degree especially working in HR & Labour Law domain was not only an additional advantage but necessity especially while dealing with women, blue collared and white collared employees. It also gives you an advantage to see things from a larger perspective. My journey through different fields of study was driven by a combination of curiosity, passion, and a desire for personal growth. In this diverse journey, I have learned that education isn’t a linear path; it’s a mosaic-each piece contributes to the whole.
You have achieved lot of credibility and recognition on the area of Sexual harassment matters with clients across industries. Please elaborate your journey in this area.
Thank you for appreciating and recognising my work in the area of sexual harassment matters. It’s a field that requires both dedication and sensitivity due to the complex and often emotionally charged nature of the cases involved. My journey in this area has been multifaceted, involving both professional development and personal commitment to advocating for justice and equality. It began with a recognition of the pervasive nature of sexual harassment in workplaces across industries and a commitment to addressing this issue head-on. Early on, I sought out opportunities to educate myself on the legal frameworks surrounding sexual harassment, including relevant laws, regulations, and case precedents.
As I delved deeper into this field, I actively sought out opportunities to work with clients across various industries, offering legal guidance and support in navigating sexual harassment allegations and incidents. This involved providing advice on policies and procedures for preventing and addressing sexual harassment, conducting investigations into allegations and representing clients in legal proceedings when necessary.
One of the key aspects of my journey has been building strong relationships with clients and earning their trust as a knowledgeable and reliable advisor in this sensitive area. I prioritize open communication, empathy, and a commitment to understanding each client’s unique needs and concerns. Over time, my efforts have been recognized, leading to increased credibility and recognition in the field of sexual harassment matters. This recognition has opened up opportunities to collaborate with diverse industries, including corporate, nonprofit, educational, and governmental sectors. I provide comprehensive legal counsel on developing and implementing effective sexual harassment policies, conducting investigations into complaints, and advising on appropriate disciplinary actions.
I’ve been actively involved in raising awareness about sexual harassment prevention through speaking engagements, training sessions, and contributing to publications and thought leadership initiatives. By sharing insights, best practices, and practical strategies, I aim to empower organizations to create environments where harassment is not tolerated and where all individuals can thrive.
My experience and commitment in this area has led me to be empanelled with the Ministry of Women and Child Development, Government of India.
Throughout my journey, I remain dedicated to supporting victims of sexual harassment, holding perpetrators accountable, and promoting environments where all individuals feel safe, respected, and valued. My work in this area is driven by a passion for justice, equity, and creating positive change in the workplace and beyond.
How do you leverage your expertise in consumer laws and medical negligence matters to ensure fair representation for your clients, especially when dealing with sensitive issues like healthcare?
As an advocate with a focus on consumer laws and medical negligence, my approach is to ensure fair representation for clients with a blend of legal acumen, empathy, and strategic advocacy. I delve deep into consumer protection laws, medical jurisprudence, and precedents. Healthcare issues are always emotionally charged so having empathetic listening is crucial which also allows me to tailor legal strategies to align with their unique circumstances. At the same time, it is my responsibility to demystify the legal complexities to my clients and give them right potential outcomes and available options so that they can make informed decisions.
Building a strong case is equally important which I do by gathering medical records and taking expert opinions. I collaborate with medical experts, doctors, specialists and forensic professionals. Their testimony provides objective and insight which in result strengthens our case. At the same time, I believe not all cases need to be courtroom battles so I also explore negotiation and mediations. A fair settlement can provide for a quicker relief without prolonged litigation.
Having advised both Indian and multinational clients on anti-corruption laws, what unique challenges do you encounter in ensuring compliance, and how do you address them effectively?
Advising clients on anti-corruption laws presents unique challenges that require a delicate balance of legal expertise, cultural awareness and strategic thinking. Operating across borders means navigating diverse cultural norms, business practices, and legal systems. Anti-corruption laws vary globally like FCPA (U.S.), UK Bribery Act, Indian Prevention of Corruption Act, (India). Therefore, I have to be constantly updated on legal developments in different jurisdictions to conduct a thorough due diligence. Multinational companies rely on third parties—suppliers, distributors, agents, etc.-these intermediaries can pose corruption risks. Therefore, implementing a robust due diligence process for such third parties is not only a compliance need but an obligation. Further, to strengthen the systems, I also advise my clients to encourage a whistleblower protection scheme to encourage employees to report corruption without retaliation.
Further, employees and stakeholders must understand anti-corruption policies for which regular training sessions and workshops have to be conducted to reinforce compliance expectations. For this also I conduct training workshops for my clients. Compliance is an ongoing process so risk assessment and updating of policies including being aware of changing legal landscapes needs to be there. Effective anti-corruption compliance fosters a culture of integrity, accountability, and transparency.
Given your involvement in conducting legal audits could you elaborate on the importance of due diligence in today’s legal landscape, especially in cross-border transactions?
In today’s complex legal landscape, due diligence plays a pivotal role, especially in cross-border transactions. Given the complexity and potential risks involved in cross-border transactions, conducting thorough due diligence is not just advisable but necessary for ensuring the success and legality of the deal. Different countries have varied laws and regulations governing business operations, contracts, taxation, employment, intellectual property etc. Conducting due diligence helps ensure that the transaction complies with all applicable laws and regulations in each relevant jurisdiction. Cross-border transactions often entail higher levels of risk due to differences in legal systems, cultural norms, political stability, and economic conditions. Due diligence helps identify and assess potential risks associated with the transaction, allowing parties to take appropriate measures to mitigate them.
Thorough due diligence enables parties to assess the financial health and stability of the target company or assets involved in the transaction. Due diligence helps uncover any issues that could damage the parties’ reputations or lead to negative publicity, allowing them to address these issues proactively. The insights gained from due diligence inform the negotiation process and enable parties to make informed decisions regarding the transaction’s terms, structure, and valuation. Due diligence helps ensure that legal documentation, such as contracts, agreements, and disclosures, accurately reflect the terms and conditions of the transaction and adequately protect the parties’ interests.
Whether acquiring a foreign company, forming joint ventures, or expanding globally, thorough due diligence maximizes the chances of a mutually beneficial and successful transaction
As someone who has handled employment and labor law matters extensively, what advice would you give to organizations aiming to foster a harmonious employer-employee relationship while ensuring compliance with labor regulations?
Fostering a harmonious employer-employee relationship while ensuring compliance with labor regulations is essential for organizational success and stability. A positive employer-employee relationship contributes to productivity, loyalty, and overall organizational success.
Having extensive experience in this domain both as a lawyer and a HR professional my advice to Organization would be: firstly, stay updated on labor laws, regulations and compliance requirements relevant to your industry and location. Secondly, encourage open and transparent communication between management and employees. Thirdly, Implement non-discriminatory policies and practices in recruitment, hiring, promotion, compensation, and other employment-related decisions. Fourthly, develop clear and comprehensive policies and procedures that outline employee rights, responsibilities, expectations, and disciplinary processes. Implementing an effective mechanism for resolving conflicts and grievances in the workplace ensures that disputes are addressed promptly and fairly
Further, invest in training and development programs to enhance employee skills and knowledge. This not only improves job performance but also demonstrates a commitment to employee growth and well-being. Creating a positive work environment also goes a long way in building employer-employee relations. Recognize and reward employee contributions and achievements regularly. Encourage teamwork, collaboration, and mutual respect among colleagues
With the ever-increasing stress which individuals face these days, it is advisable to recognize the importance of work-life balance and support initiatives that help employees achieve it which may include offering flexible work arrangements wherever feasible.
When in doubt about compliance with labor laws or handling complex employment related issues, it is advisable to seek guidance from experienced legal professionals specializing in employment and labor law. This would help Organizations in mitigating risks and ensuring adherence to legal requirements.
With your extensive experience, what advice would you offer to aspiring legal professionals looking to carve a niche in multiple practice areas, similar to your trajectory?
First and foremost, advice to young professionals is always consider yourself as a student throughout your lifetime and commit to lifelong learning. Explore diverse legal fields during your education and early career. Master the fundamentals before branching out into multiple practice areas.
Another important aspect is understanding your own strengths and interests and not copying others. Reflect on what aspects of law resonate with you. Gain practical experience in different practice areas through internships, clerkships, or volunteer opportunities. Intern or work in different legal settings be it an individual lawyer, law firms, PSU’S, NGOs or private companies in their corporate legal departments. This hands-on experience will not only help you determine your areas of interest but also develop a versatile skill set.
Another crucial piece of advice I would like to give to young professionals is to develop effective communication skills. As you move forward in your professional journey, the ability to communicate complex legal concepts clearly and persuasively becomes paramount. Work on your oral advocacy, writing, and presentation skills to effectively convey your expertise to clients, colleagues, and other stakeholders.
With your demanding schedule and multifaceted legal practice, how do you unwind and recharge outside of work? Could you share some of your hobbies or activities that help you maintain a healthy work-life balance?
While my schedule can indeed be demanding, but I carve out time to maintain a healthy work life balance Outside work, some of the activities I really like to do is: Travelling – I like exploring new places and experiencing different cultures and cuisines. It allows me to break away from routine, gain new perspectives, and create lasting memories. Music also helps me to unwind and relax. I Iike listening to all kind of music be it classical or upbeat tunes. I myself have learned sitar and table during my college days. Spending time with family and friends helps me to recharge my energy; whether it’s sharing a meal, engaging in meaningful conversations, or simply enjoying each other’s company, these moments help me to unwind and relax.
Would you please share a memorable success story or a particularly challenging case you’ve handled, highlighting the lessons learned and the strategies employed to achieve a favorable outcome?
It was a sexual harassment case against a very renowned doctor of Delhi with more than 30 years’ experience. The complaint was made by two young nurses working with him. Unfortunately, the hospital was more concerned about the doctor and their own reputation rather than addressing such a serious allegation. It was a challenging situation where the credibility and reputation of a renowned doctor was being weighed against grave allegations of sexual harassment made by those nurses. Even within the ICC (Internal Complaints Committee), there was hesitation and discomfort among members about proceeding with the inquiry and few wanted to resign from the ICC. The reluctance of ICC members to continue stemmed from fear of backlash and disbelief in the allegations. It was understandable that the ICC members had reservations about their involvement in such a sensitive and high-profile case. However, their agreement to participate in the inquiry proceedings was a positive step forward, even if it left much of the responsibility on my shoulders as an external member.
Additionally, it was vital to create an environment where the complainants would feel safe and supported throughout the process, despite the challenges posed by the doctor’s reputation and the hospital’s stance. Gathering evidence and securing witness cooperation was equally challenging, compounded by the doctor’s over-confidence and references to high-profile contacts, requires careful management. I knew what was my role in this complex case and so I looked into the matter very objectively without getting pressured by external factors.
Despite the doctor’s challenges and references to high-profile contacts repeatedly, I remain impartial and focused on the facts of the case. I ensured that the inquiry proceeds according to established procedures and protocols, without being swayed by external influences. Though the doctor was very reactive and aggressive, I responded in a calm and professional manner clearly explaining to him the purpose and process of the inquiry, emphasizing the importance of gathering all relevant information to ensure a fair and thorough investigation. I also reassured the witnesses of their confidentiality and protection from any potential repercussions for cooperating with the investigation. I also reminded them that their safety is paramount and their testimony is critical to uncovering the truth. I documented all attempts to influence or obstruct the investigation and this information became relevant for inquiry proceedings. I followed up with witnesses regularly, addressed any concerns they may have, and continued to explore alternative avenues for obtaining information. I conducted a comprehensive investigation into the allegations, interviewing affected employees and reviewing relevant documentation. This helped in uncovering patterns of behavior that supported the claims of sexual harassment. I remained persistent and diligent in my efforts to gather evidence (both direct & corroborative) and secured witness cooperation. Finally, truth prevailed and despite the challenges faced, truth prevailed and appropriate action was taken against the doctor.
Dealing with challenges and resistance in such cases can be emotionally taxing, but it’s important to remain resilient and committed to upholding justice.
Can you share your diverse and enriching journey from IIT Kharagpur to founding Umbrella Legal. What inspired you to transition from a technical background to a career in law and entrepreneurship?
Thank you Superlawyer Team for this opportunity and I feel very lucky to be approached and interviewed for the second time in my legal career. To begin with, I am a first-generation lawyer who, in my third year of engineering, made the decision to shift gears. Throughout 4 years of engineering college, I participated in various extracurricular and events, which gradually led me to realize my passion and aptitude for law. During the final year of my engineering studies, subjects such as introduction to patents and technology transfer solidified my resolve to pursue law after engineering, with the aim of integrating knowledge from both fields to tackle complex issues. So, at the end of 4 years of engineering college, I opted for a three-year law program specialized for individuals with a technical background at RGSOIPL, IIT Kharagpur, instead of pursuing MTech or joining a corporate job. I had wonderful cohorts and friends at law school, who added to the need to challenge myself for learning and gaining experience.
Following campus recruitment at IIT Kharagpur, I joined Hero MotoCorp’s R&D setup as part of their IP cell, gaining valuable experience in handling patent-related matters. After a tenure of 2.5 years at Hero, I transitioned to TCS as an IP analyst, where I delved into core IP issues and gained extensive exposure to domestic and international IP laws, particularly in the software domain. While recognized as a valuable asset at TCS, I felt the urge to broaden my legal expertise, leading me to join Bajaj Electricals as Manager-Legal and IP. In this role, I provided comprehensive legal support across various departments, refining my leadership skills and navigating complex legal challenges across multiple business verticals over a span of 2.5 years. Subsequently, I moved to ATC Tires Private Limited, further expanding my legal exposure and expertise in handling legal and compliance matters.
The transition from an in-house counsel role to an entrepreneurial position is not abrupt but rather rooted in a steadfast aspiration that began during law school to establish my own firm. Through exposure and accumulated experience in the legal field, I eventually reached the point where I felt confident enough to leave my corporate position and embark on this entrepreneurial journey.
Starting Umbrella Legal must have been an exciting yet daunting venture. What were some of the initial challenges you faced, and how did you overcome them to establish a successful legal practice?
I think the decision to leave my position as Senior Manager-Legal in 2022 to start my own firm has been the biggest challenge. The magnitude of this challenge becomes evident when starting without an existing client base, despite a decade of experience. Over time, I learned to cultivate relationships and instil trust with clients gradually. My background as an in-house counsel proved invaluable in comprehending the intricacies of transactions from both business and legal perspectives, affording me a distinct advantage in handling certain complex matters.
Your involvement with teaching and providing legal exposure to students at NMIMS Mumbai and IIM Bodhgaya is commendable. What drives you to impart knowledge and mentorship, and how do you believe it contributes to the legal profession?
My father, a teacher himself, instilled in me the value of imparting knowledge and contributing to the community. I have a fondness for teaching, and whenever the opportunity arises, I am committed to delivering my best as a faculty member. As a legal professional, I actively engage in continuous learning, staying updated on emerging trends in law, and giving back to the legal community through knowledge sharing, mentorship programs, and academic collaborations.
I had the pleasure of teaching two modules of the executive law program at IIM Bodhgaya, where participants engaged in discussions on legal interpretation, case studies, and shared their experiences in addressing similar issues within their organizations. Teaching law, to me, is about more than just imparting knowledge; it’s also an opportunity to learn from diverse perspectives and experiences.
As someone deeply involved in the startup ecosystem, what do you believe are the key legal challenges that startups often overlook, and how can they proactively address them to ensure long-term success?
The legal challenges start from selection of entities to incorporate to finally implementing practices to mitigate legal risks. I remember having this discussion with a client wherein they were ready to deploy all measures to ensure that accounts become up and running from day 1 but when it was time for legal compliances, the reply was “is it absolutely necessary” and what would be the penalty, if not complied.
Certain startups fail to recognize the significance of completing legal paperwork, safeguarding intellectual property, establishing legal frameworks, and formalizing co-founder agreements and equity distribution plans. The initial action to tackle these matters involves engaging an attorney for in-depth discussions concerning your needs, financial constraints, and deadlines. Establishing a structured timeline ensures that all necessary steps are taken in a timely manner.
Becoming a registered patent agent is a significant achievement. Could you share with us your experience preparing for and passing the Indian Patent Agent Examination?
In 2013, while serving as Deputy Manager at Hero MotoCorp, I successfully passed the patent agent examination. In my role, I was tasked with various responsibilities such as conducting patent searches, drafting, filing, and providing related advisory services. Given the frequent engagement with patent-related matters, I found myself referring to the relevant laws and regulations multiple times a day, inadvertently preparing me for the examination. Moreover, drafting patent specifications as part of my duties involved comprehending the inventions conceived by inventors, further enhancing my preparation for the examination.
Your involvement in advising on software patents and navigating the complexities of international patent filings is impressive. What unique considerations or challenges arise when dealing with software-related inventions in the context of patents, and how do you address them?
My exposure to software patents and challenges around them began with my engagement with TCS, Mumbai. I joined TCS in January 2015 and just a few months before, the Alice vs. The CLS case was decided in the US Supreme Court and every software company was concerned with the verdict. In that case, it was held that patent claims granted for computer-implemented electronic escrow services were directed to abstract ideas and not patentable subject matter. This case had a profound impact on the way of examination of software patents and laid out two step analysis. India patent office on the other hand was busy drafting CRI guidelines for examination of computer related inventions but there were a lot of comments and recommendations given by industry players upon release of those guidelines due to clarity and interpretation issues. One of the biggest challenges after the Alice case was to overcome the 101 rejections in the US with limited support available from pre-Alice patent specification.
You’ve mentioned handling complex transactions during your tenure with some of India’s biggest companies. Can you share some strategies or approaches you utilized when faced with particularly challenging cases, such as those involving intricate IP issues or high-stakes legal matters?
Navigating transactions entangled in numerous legal complexities demands meticulous strategic planning, clear communication with the business team, and scrupulous attention to detail when reviewing documents and disclosures. In the initial stages, it’s crucial to engage in thorough discussions with relevant teams, delving into the nature, rationale, and expected outcomes, while also conveying expectations and providing regular updates.
At the outset of such intricate transactions, establishing a risk matrix is imperative, allowing for the identification of potential risks and the implementation of mitigation measures to secure a favourable outcome. Complex transactions often involve unanticipated challenges and it becomes important to strategize and work to ensure that you do not deviate significantly while revisiting and adjusting the transaction structure.
Your journey from a deputy manager at Hero MotoCorp to founding Umbrella Legal is quite inspiring. What lessons or experiences from your early career do you carry with you today, and how have they influenced your professional growth?
Thank you for your kind words. I appreciate your kind sentiments. Transitioning from my role as deputy manager at Hero MotoCorp to establishing my own firm has been a journey rich in valuable lessons and experiences, supported by the guidance of family, friends, and mentors at various stages of my career. One paramount lesson I’ve embraced and applied is that there are no shortcuts to professional advancement, and there’s no justification for compromising on the highest standards of professionalism and quality.
Balancing a career as a legal entrepreneur and being a strategic legal advisor requires excellent time management skills. What are some strategies or habits that you’ve found effective in maintaining this balance and staying productive?
In today’s fast-paced professional landscape, many individuals encounter the dual challenges of time management and maintaining a healthy work-life balance. Within the legal profession, given the demanding nature of the work and long hours, it becomes essential to implement strategies for effective time management. One particularly beneficial approach is establishing clear priorities and developing the skill of delegation.
In the past, I struggled with setting boundaries regarding personal time, often allowing work-related matters to encroach upon my personal life. However, I gradually altered these habits. Now, I prioritize carving out dedicated time for my personal life to prevent burnout and ensure rejuvenation. This shift has been instrumental in enhancing my overall well-being and productivity.
Before we delve into your remarkable career journey, could you please introduce yourself to our readers, sharing a bit about your background, your passions, and what drives you professionally and personally?
I am Awanish Srivastava having experience of more than 22 years in Corporate & Core Litigation, Corporate Law, Agro Litigation, Intellectual Property Management, Contract Management and Corporate Consultancy.
I am Founder & Managing Partner of NAKS & Associates (Advocates & Solicitors), a Pan India Law firm. I am also a Fellow member of Institute of Company Secretaries of India and Regional Council Member, currently holding the post of Treasurer of NIRC of ICSI. I am Law graduate from Delhi University, Master in Law, Post Graduate in Commerce and M.B.A. (Finance). I am an active member of the ICSI, Bar Council of Delhi, Supreme Court, Delhi High Court Bar Association and NCLT Bar Association.
My journey has been driven by a passion for justice and the belief in law as a tool for societal improvement. Professionally, I am driven by the challenge of navigating the complex legal landscape to deliver solutions that not only serve our clients but also contribute to the legal profession’s evolution. Personally, I am motivated by the impact we can make through our work, in both the corporate sphere and community initiatives like Pink & Blue.
You’ve played a significant role in defining new standards of legal services in India through your firm, NAKS & Associates. What motivated you to establish NAKS with such a unique vision of operating as a Corporate Law Firm in a Retail Concept?
The vision for NAKS & Associates stemmed from recognizing a gap in the legal services market – the need for accessible, reliable corporate legal solutions across India. The Idea of Pan India Litigation came into my mind when I was working with a future group where we, as In-house Counsel, were struggling to hire lawyers in small cities and at Taluka level. In the Year 2012, we started Naks as PAN India law Firm with the aim of providing one stop solutions to our clients.
This initiative really created a platform for Corporate at one end and Lawyers in small cities at the other. Further, this platform makes legal assistance more accessible and also allows us to reach a wider level, ensuring that businesses, regardless of size, have access to top-notch legal counsel. Our System helped small Cities Lawyer to handle Big Corporate Clients.
Your work with Pink & Blue- A Symbiotic Living initiative is commendable. Can you tell us more about the initiative and how it’s making a difference in society?
Pink & Blue – Symbiotic Living (A unit of Chamber of Professional (CoP)- A Registered NGO) is a team of expert professionals, working for welfare of Working Women and Prevention of Sexual Harassment at Workplace and this is very close to my heart.
Pink & Blue is operating with the aim of creating awareness among each and every member of society about the ill impacts of Sexual Harassment and the means to prevent & redress the complaints of Sexual Harassment. We have taken a pledge to give Free training and Support to Maximum People for the betterment of the Society and promoting Happy & Healthy Co-Living Workspaces. We are a team of expert Company Secretaries, Advocates, HR Professionals & Social Workers.
We have conducted more than 200 Training sessions so far and trained and empowered more than 2 Lakh People. We have trained and certified more than 140 Posh Trainers who are CS, CA, Advocates and CMA. Our Trainers have successfully conducted training in more than 500 organisations.
Our work is making a difference by educating employers and employees alike, fostering environments where everyone can feel secure and respected. This initiative is a reflection of our commitment to social responsibility, aiming to enact real change in society through education and awareness.
Handling cases involving complex corporate litigation and intellectual property management requires a unique skill set. What are some of the key challenges you’ve faced in your career, and how have you overcome them?
One of the key challenges in handling complex litigation and intellectual property cases is staying abreast of the rapidly changing legal landscape. Keeping updated with the latest laws and judicial precedents requires continuous learning and adaptability. In today’s era, where litigation and judiciary is taking turns frequently, one cannot make distance with reading or upgrading himself with legal knowledge even for a slightest of time period.
I’ve overcome these challenges by fostering a culture of ongoing education, Reading, making notes and knowledge sharing within our firm, ensuring that we remain at the forefront of legal upgradation and best practices.
You’ve served in senior positions as in-house counsel for prominent Corporate like Videocon Telecommunications Ltd. and Future Group. Could you share some insights into your experience in these roles and how they have influenced your approach to legal practice and corporate consultancy?
My career took an airlift when I joined Future Group as Junior Manager. I was responsible for the Supervision and Monitoring of Legal & Liaisoning team of 12 members of PAN India for Legal, Contract Management, Regulatory, Liaisoning and Compliance related issues/matters. I was awarded Best Employee at Future Group for 2 (two) consecutive years and an Appreciation Award from CEO for my performance in supervising PAN India Legal & Liaisoning Team.
Thereafter, I joined Videocon Group as Deputy Manager, Videocon Telecommunication Ltd. and I was responsible for Litigation and Contract Management. I have handled highly reported 2G Litigation matters in Videocon.
Working with Future Group and Videocon Telecommunications Ltd. was a defining period in my career. These roles taught me the importance of aligning legal strategies with business objectives.
This experience has been instrumental in shaping my approach to corporate consultancy, where the focus is not just on legal compliance but on facilitating business growth and protecting intellectual assets in a strategic manner.
Your firm, NAKS & Associates, operates in more than 700 districts in India, which is quite impressive. What strategies have you implemented to ensure such extensive coverage and maintain high-quality legal services across different regions?
With the increase in technology and awareness in the small Cities, the litigations against the companies are also increasing day by day. Due to increase in consumer cases, Civil Cases, Criminal Cases and others litigation, big corporates are facing the problems of appointing counsels at various places in India including small cities to represent them even at the remote locations. I faced similar kind of difficulties when I was working in Future Group and Videocon and these difficulties motivated me to start Naks in this concept to provide Pan India Litigation services support to our clients where they get representations even at far reaching locations.
The strategy for achieving extensive coverage while maintaining high-quality legal services hinges on leveraging technology and building a strong network of legal professionals. We’ve implemented robust training programs to ensure uniformity in service quality and employed technology to manage cases efficiently across different regions. This blend of human expertise and technology enables us to serve our clients even in far corners of the country with a high standard of legal assistance.
As a Fellow member of the Institute of Company Secretaries of India, what advice would you give to young professionals aspiring to build a successful career in corporate law and litigation?
For those aspiring to build a career in corporate law and litigation, my advice is to join the Company Secretaryship Course.
A ‘Company Secretary’ is a senior, strategic-level corporate professional who plays a leading role of a Key Managerial Personnel (KMP) entrusted with the responsibility of the company’s Corporate Governance. Corporate Governance is more than just complying with laws, regulations, standards and codes; it is also about creating a culture of good management practices. The position of a Company Secretary as the KMP comes close to that of the Chief Executive Officer or the Managing Director and underlines the importance of the role played by him in the company.
After completing Company Secretary course, one has enormous opportunity to become KMP, Secretarial Heads, Head Contract Manager, Compliance Head, Regulatory heads, General Counsel, Practicing Company Secretary, Insolvency Professional, Registered valuer, Appearance before various tribunals.
Young professionals can build successful careers in corporate law and litigation by continuous Learning and Practice. The legal field is ever-evolving, and success requires not just a solid foundation in law but also an understanding of business principles and technological advancements. Focus on building a diverse skill set that includes legal expertise, business acumen, and emotional intelligence.
Balancing a successful legal career with social responsibility and community service can be demanding. How do you manage to juggle these responsibilities effectively?
Balancing a demanding legal career with social responsibility involves setting clear priorities and being passionate about your social initiatives. For me, initiatives like Pink & Blue are not just additional responsibilities but integral part of my professional identity. Effective time management and a supportive team are crucial in managing these dual aspects seamlessly. Decentralising decision making at execution level, wherever necessary and having established a tried & tested reporting system helps minimizing any unfortunate incident of error in the system which indirectly helps me spare some moments for initiatives like Pink & Blue.
Given your extensive experience and expertise, what are your thoughts on how the current generation can better understand their strengths and identify the right career path for themselves, especially in the legal profession or corporate world? Do you have any advice on discovering one’s true calling and leveraging their strengths effectively?
Understanding one’s strengths and finding the right career path requires introspection and exposure to different experiences. I encourage the current generation to seek mentorship, engage in diverse internships, and participate in community service to gain a broader perspective. Discovering your true calling is a journey of exploring your passions and how they align with your professional aspirations. Embrace opportunities to learn and grow, and don’t be afraid to chart your own path in the legal profession or any field you’re passionate about.
