Super Lawyer

Tag: Symbiosis Law School Pune

  • Vikram Wadehra, Advocate, Vidhii Partners, on heading their Kolkata wing, commercial litigation, and his diverse experience

    Vikram Wadehra, Advocate, Vidhii Partners, on heading their Kolkata wing, commercial litigation, and his diverse experience

    Vikram Wadehra graduated from Symbiosis Law School, Pune, in 2010. Since then he has worked at Roy & Co., Advocates & Solicitors, and R.L. Gaggar & Co., Solicitors & Advocates. He is currently an Advocate with Vidhii Partners, where he specializes in litigation. His role entails matters pertaining to general civil, banking, dispute resolution and real estate. Over the course of his experience, he has advised and represented various companies, asset reconstruction companies, banks and government institutions in various legal forums.

    In this interview, we speak to him about:

    • Working at Vidhii Partners and heading their Kolkata wing
    • His time at Symbiosis
    • His work experience

    How would you like to introduce yourself to our readers?

    I am a lawyer presently heading the Kolkata wing of Vidhii Partners, Advocates. I started my professional life working with some distinguished and eminent lawyers in the fraternity. I am extremely passionate and look forward to creating a positive dent in the eco-system I operate within.

     

    What motivated you to pursue law?

    I am a first generation lawyer, and law has always been my first choice. Debating and mock parliaments were my favourite extracurricular activities and I bagged a few laurels representing my school. As a student, I was fascinated reading John Grisham’s legal thrillers. As a budding lawyer, I admired Harvey (of Suits fame) and Alan (from Boston Legal) and fantasised about donning the black robe in the hallowed courtroom corridors.

    However, it was not long before these fascinations were replaced by the grueling reality of the legal system. With an intention to make a positive impact on the legal system, I was convinced of my choice to become a lawyer.

     

    How would you describe your time at Symbiosis Law School?

    Fun-filled to say the least; the weekend parties, the informal debates at the canteen, the late night group study sessions, grappling with a difficult paper and the ecstasy of doing well, all these memories beautifully woven together. One of the biggest advantages of studying at Symbiosis Law School, Pune, was the access to the multi-cultural student body which I was exposed to. While staying at the college hostel, I made friends from all across the globe studying different courses at the college, some of whom have become associates and we continue to help each other professionally. While legal education was demanding, the campus was a live wire with cultural fests, moot courts, debates and sports. I was fortunate to have a great set of friends which helped me through the thick and thin of my academic term at college.

    While I tried my best to balance academics with extra-curricular activities, I was particularly inclined towards moot courts because it gave me the adrenaline rush and the thrill of the court room discourses. I also wrote for magazines on pressing legal issues of that time.

    How must one decide the future course of action after graduation?

    The wide array of career options that are available to law graduates could often prove daunting while making the right career choices. While many prefer to join corporates to help them navigate legal intricacies, other might prefer litigation while a Masters/Doctorate degree could entice those academically inclined.

    There is no dearth of literature available on the internet, weighing the pros and cons of each approach recent graduates might want to take. While I was at a crossroads, the KSF (Key-Success-Factors) matrix helped me decipher my next career move. In the table I created, I listed down my priorities of what I wanted to achieve in my career and assigned weights to them (with the most important priority having the highest weight/importance). While a number of parameters might assume importance while making the next career move, I certainly feel quality of work and being able to associate with a mentor who could guide you and channel your efforts in the right direction assume prime importance. However, I would suggest that the intuitive inner calling has to be balanced aptly with reasoning and logic. Irrespective of the career choice, one has to push oneself to grow in the profession.

    Could you share with us the most important learnings you have had from your internships?

    I certainly think that internships are among the most important aspects of the education which any student receives at a law school. The fact that one can tie up the innumerable case laws and endless class discussions and case facts into practical and real life situations is what makes internships such a vital component of the education. Moreover, it would provide the student to test his inclination towards a particular subject or an area of interest and explore just how it might be to take that up full time. This is also critical because as an intern you can really look to forge relationships which would help you in the course of your career when you graduate.

     

    What areas of law interested you during your legal education?

    As a student, it was the allure of litigating in court that drew me. This quickly changed during my time at law school, where I found the intersection between business and law, particularly negotiation and creative problem solving attractive. This was particularly evident during my internships, since most of them were with law firms into Corporate Litigation & Advisory. This perhaps could stem from the fact that I was good with Accountancy in school and was always curious to understand the interplay of various elements within a legal setting. All of this, I believe, were important precursors which prompted me to choose this as my area of expertise.

     

    Did you have a mentor or guide during the formative years of your career?

    It is extremely important for one to have a mentor during the formative years of his/her career. I would go on to state that it is just next to acquiring your degree in law or clearing the Bar. This is because a good mentor would not just help you make strategic career choices or help you while you are at crossroads, he would also help you with insights which only an experienced mind can provide and would be extremely beneficial to a young lawyer.

    While I got to know the technical nitty-gritties of how a lawyer might approach a particular case and the thought process that goes into delivering a compelling argument, I was fortunate enough to find mentors during my internship stints who helped me as an aspiring lawyer. Whether it was seeking a second opinion on the case I had been stuck with or just bouncing off my ideas on a matter of importance, I always had experienced minds to tap into which have been instrumental in shaping up my career as it stands today.

     

    On what parameters do you choose the projects you work on?

    I try and consciously build a specific body of work. I am very careful while choosing the kind of projects that I work on.

    One of the most important parameters is the fact whether I would be able to do justice to what the client expects out of me. I try and do justice to every project I take up; not just in terms of the deliverable expected out of me and the team but also in terms of the time I am able to dedicate towards a particular project. I treat every project I associate with as an opportunity for me to learn something different and hence I consciously look for diversity on the work I do. This also helps me evaluate whether a particular project which I am going to associate myself fits in the long-term scheme of things i.e., how a particular project would help me achieve my career objectives.

     

    Could you take us through what a typical work day looks like at Vidhii Partners, Kolkata?

    A typical day at Vidhii Partners, Kolkata begins early with clients reaching out for updates to their matters. This is followed by arguing matters at the court-room, attending conferences with senior counsels, helping my team with issues that might have had them stuck, meeting prospective clients and ensuring that the expectations of all our existing clientele is met. We have internal meetings and huddles based on the team’s availability to discuss status on the matters in progress and chart the strategy for the future course of action. Further, it includes a mix of reviewing and drafting petitions and contracts along with negotiations with respect to the contracts.

    Having said that, the satisfaction at the end of a hard day’s work is unparalleled. Over the years, I have started to equate a successful day with the satisfaction of doing something meaningful. A couple of “Aha! moments” in a day, just makes the day so much more special and keeps you wanting to tide over the night and get back to work.

     

    Please share with us some of your experiences from the various commercial litigations that you have worked on.

    The first time I appeared in court as a new lawyer, I remember thinking to myself, “They sure don’t teach you this in law school.” Sure, I went through a course in trial advocacy and also was on moot court competitive teams. Yet, nothing would prepare me for the realization that I, a recent graduate surrounded by much more experienced attorneys (some of whom were admitted to the Bar the year I was born), was responsible for representing my client on my own. That realization was empowering and thrilling, but, if I am being completely honest, it was mostly terrifying.

    It is important to know your case. In my few years of practice, I have already learned that I will never be the smartest, the most experienced, or the most eloquent person in the room. But I believe that knowing your case better than your adversary is the first step to being a successful lawyer. It is equally important to know your judge. Every judge has his/her own idiosyncrasies that must be accommodated. A young lawyer’s ability to be flexible and adapt to judges will go a long way toward improving that lawyer’s reputation in the legal community. If possible, ask other lawyers about a judge’s pet peeves and unique practices. Taking this step will mean fewer surprises and less anxiety.

    Transitioning from learning the law to eventually imparting legal advice can seem daunting. Even now, I struggle with convincing myself that I can properly advise my clients, especially because I am often half their age (and look even younger). You might be inexperienced, but you do not have to act that way. I find that it is possible to appear confident, even when you are not. For me, I am most confident when I am thoroughly prepared. I make outlines and notes that will help guide me through an argument or presentation before the court. I practice even the simplest of arguments by talking it through to myself, to my colleagues, and sometimes to non-lawyers, which ensures that I really have a handle on the issues.

    Litigation is filled with conflict, emotion, and stress, so it is inevitable that someone will say something to you that is offensive. Ignore it and do not lose sight of your goal of effective representation. Responding in kind only results in collateral damage to your client.

     

    What are the challenges you have faced in building up your career as it stands today?

    As ambitious lawyers eager to make a difference, students and aspiring lawyers often set unrealistic expectations out of themselves. One should keep in mind that it takes years, if not decades, to establish credibility and even attempt to create a change. Most lawyers, very early on in their careers, often get frustrated with the lack of results their efforts often yield and end up contemplating pursuing an easier path which might yield quicker and short terms results. I have lost count of the number of talented and capable lawyers I have met who are disillusioned with the system. Peer pressure and expectations from family doesn’t help either and most lawyers lose the steam halfway through the marathon.

    Another major challenge which I would like to highlight is effective time-management. With so many pressing issues demanding immediate attention, it is of paramount importance that you learn the skill to prioritize issues and effectively delegate work which you think could be adeptly handled by someone in your team. It is an art which often takes years to master and the earlier a lawyer gets it, the better he is poised to take on the demanding work-load a legal career requires.

     

    What are the key attributes that one must develop in order to excel in this industry?

    Hard-work is the most critical attribute one must develop in order to excel in this industry. There is absolutely no substitute for pouring over endless case literature, the late night discussions, working over weekends and extending hours to prepare for an appearance next day. There are days, I must confess, where the work-load is simply unmanageable and one cannot avoid but going through the day which most outside would term as boring, routine and monotonous. This is precisely the reason why it is important to be passionate about what you are doing.

    It would also help to have clarity of thought in your approach to a particular situation. While the enthusiasm and drive would propel you to strive to achieve perfectionism with almost everything you set out to achieve, having a clear thought process of what the stakeholders want might help you achieve the desired results quickly. Building relationships with clients, mentors, internal teams and various other stakeholders is just as important. Trust is an important aspect which drives business the industry and it’s important to invest in developing quality relationships.

    I started developing these skills while I was still a student. A lot of it was the unstinting support I received from my mentors and colleagues during the formative years’ of my career; which I am so grateful to.

     

    How do you keep yourself abreast with the latest legal developments and industry news?

    I read, mostly over the internet, and books to keep myself updated with the industry news and the latest legal developments. I also make time to browse through a few blogs which people have expressed their opinions over developments in the industry. This helps me gain perspective on issues which helps me gain clarity on my own thought process.

    I also make time to pursue online courses to keep myself abreast on all what’s happening globally. This gives me insight into some of the cutting edge research which is being done in my field and allows me to learn continually.

    Any parting message to our readers?

    Love what you do and you will never have to work another day in your life!

     

  • Rohan Joshi, AVP-International Business, TATA Asset Management, on switching to business from law, his diverse experience, and studying in Spain

    Rohan Joshi, AVP-International Business, TATA Asset Management, on switching to business from law, his diverse experience, and studying in Spain

    Rohan Joshi graduated from Symbiosis Law School, Pune, in 2008. After a successful stint at Kotak Mahindra as Senior Manager, he went on to pursue his Master’s Degree in Management from ESADE Business School, Barcelona.  He is currently part of the International Development and Strategy Team at Tata Mutual Fund, where his role entails Business Development and Marketing for EMEA and Asia (ex-Japan) regions, managing offshore products and legal structures.

    He has also been Vice President-ESADE Alumni, India, for two years now.

    In this interview we speak to him about:

    • Making the shift from law to business
    • Difference in curricula between BBA LLB in India and an MBA in Europe
    • His diverse experience

     

    How would you like to introduce yourself to our readers?

    I’d say that am an International Business professional with a Business and Law background.

     

    What motivated you to pursue law?

    My encounter with the legal field was an accidental one. I actually wanted to get an undergraduate degree in business but there weren’t many good schools that were offering the same at that point. It was by sheer chance that I came across the newly launched BBA LLB dual degree program at Symbiosis. The combination of business and law coupled with the opportunity to attend a premier school such as Symbiosis, Pune, really appealed to me and hence I signed up for the same.

     

    Tell us a bit about your college days at Symbiosis Law School, Pune.

    The decision to go to Symbiosis Law was probably the turning point in my personal and professional development. I owe a major part of what I am today—for better or for worse­—to Symbiosis. Being in that vibrant and multicultural environment where you are surrounded by people who are talented in their own unique ways was such a great experience. The academic life was rigorous, specially a month before the semester exams, and there was a lot to do in terms of extracurricular activities, both on and off campus. The fact that besides contributing its fair share of alumni to the who’s who of the legal fraternity, Symbiosis also has a sizeable alumni base outside of law, which is a testament to the holistic learning and the networks that the school provides.

     

    Could you tell us about the internships you took up, and what you learnt from those experiences?

    Internships provide key insights into the practical applications of what you learn in law school. I interned with HDFC Bank, Reliance Infocomm, Singhania & Partners, Fox Mandal Little & Co., etc to maintain a balance of working in corporates and law firms. These internships not only gave me exposure to various industries and both the sides of the business (i.e., in-house and law firms) but also gave me the confidence that I could do a decent job as a lawyer.  Eventually it was the internship at HDFC bank that in a way helped me in getting placed with Kotak Bank.

     

    What areas of law interested you during your legal education?

    Contracts, Arbitration, International Law were and still remain some of my areas of interest.

     

    Tell us about your early professional experiences at Kotak Mahindra Bank.

    I didn’t have any set parameters of where I wanted to work. However considering my long term goal of transitioning into a business role, I choose the Corporate Track during the placement week. The idea was to do justice to my legal education and work as a Corporate Lawyer for a few years. I was lucky to have been recruited by Kotak Mahindra Bank on the first day of Symbiosis campus placements.

    Having interned with HDFC Bank, I had a fair idea about the in-house legal work in a bank. However like any other law graduate fresh out of law school, I quickly realized that being a full time employee means a whole lot more in terms of work load and overall responsibility. Joining the workforce in 2008 amid the global financial turmoil also meant that there was a steep learning curve as in-house counsels (especially in Financial Services Firms) had to hit the ground running. Luckily the Corporate Legal team at Kotak comprised smart and seasoned legal professionals who were helpful enough to guide me. In fact within six months of joining Kotak, I was managing the legal support for entire northern region operations of a business vertical under the overall guidance of the Regional Legal Head. This responsibility was a bit overwhelming at first but thanks to the faith and guidance of my seniors I managed to do a decent job of the same. After a span of around two years, I was given the opportunity to move to the Corporate Office in Mumbai. After having experienced the work at a regional level, I got to have a closer look at the workings at the corporate level and also got exposure to varied business verticals.

     

    How did you decide to pursue an MBA, as opposed to a Master’s Degree in Law?

    I always wanted to pursue an MBA and felt that it would fit my long term plans better, hence didn’t really give LLM a thought. I figured I was already a lawyer and needed to develop my business skills. After having worked as an in-house counsel for around five years, I decided it was time to make the switch.

     Tell us about your experience studying in ESADE.

    At the time of applying to International Business Schools my aim, like any other Indian applicant, was to get into a Global Top 20 MBA program. Given the high opportunity cost of a US program and my inclination towards Europe, I decided to focus on the European programs within that list and hence ESADE became an automatic choice for me. I got really sold on the school during an event in Mumbai and decided that that was where I wanted to be. Besides the MBA, the opportunity pick up another language on the side by way of mandatory Spanish language classes also appealed to me.

    The ESADE MBA was a once in a lifetime kind of experience. Living in Barcelona, studying in a multicultural/multilingual environment with talented classmates from around 50 nationalities and being exposed to world class faculty from ESADE and other top global universities was amazing. Add to that the occasional guest lecture by a key industry leader/CEO and live consulting projects with multinational companies, the entire experience was incredible. The icing on the cake was the opportunity to pursue an additional Geopolitics course that was taught by the Former European Union High Representative for the Common Foreign and Security Policy and Former Secretary General of NATO, Mr. Javier Solana.

     

    How did you receive the ESADE MBA Leadership Scholarship?

    Every year ESADE provides some scholarships under various heads to incoming students who have displayed certain attributes in the past and show reasonable promise for future. I was lucky to have been considered and awarded the leadership scholarship. The application process was straightforward i.e., you had to write a few essays highlighting your leadership experience/potential and how you would contribute/add value to the community. Thanks to my time at Symbiosis and Kotak, I had a series of activities such as being on the University Students Council, the Editorial team for an Kotak’s Legal e-magazine, voluntary military training from NCC, etc. to write about.

    I think students these days are fairly well informed and have well rounded interests but in any case I would recommend current students to explore their interests in co-curricular and extra-curricular activities in school.

     

    How do you perceive the differences between teaching and learning processes in India and abroad from your LLB and MBA experience?

    Before I compare the two courses, it is only fair to highlight some basic differences in terms of participant profiles and course content – unlike in India, the average experience in any international MBA program is around five to eight years. Further, the MBA is a more generic course that gives you a lot of information about different streams of management in a very short time. Keeping this in mind and the fact that methodology may have changed since it’s been some time since I went to law school, the most obvious difference was that an MBA puts a lot of emphasis on learning by doing. There are a lot of case studies and projects that you have to turn in. You learn from your professors but there is a substantial amount of peer group learning as well. The idea is put smart people with rich experiences in a room and to get a good discussion going. I think most LLB programs are more a one way learning streak mainly because of the nature of content as well.

     

    What prompted you to take up a position with SBI Mutual Fund?

    (Rohan has handled their business development strategy, offshore funds, along with legal structuring.)

    After the MBA I wanted to work with a big corporation as compared to some of the boutique firms in Europe that I was getting offers from. So I decided to come to India. When presented with the opportunity to work with SBI Funds Management, a JV between State Bank of India and Amundi France, I grabbed it with both hands.

    I joined SBI Funds as a Product Manager and gradually moved to the International Business team. Being my first business role in the Financial Services sector, the learning curve was huge and a lot of time had to be put in. The roles I handled were a good mix of Products, Sales/Business Development, Strategy and Legal Structuring. It was an absolute pleasure working on complex transactions and deals with seasoned professionals and the opportunities available due to the strong brands of the parent companies were also astounding. The biggest take away was probably the realization that I would end up utilizing both my qualifications (MBA and Law) for the kind of work I was/am involved in.

     

    On what parameters do you choose the projects you work on?

    Well, the choice of projects is a function of the overall strategy for a region, level of maturity of the target market, competitor and regulatory landscape, cost-benefit analysis, etc. While the methodology may change between projects, the rationale is to have a holistic understanding of business and regulatory aspects in order to take an informed decision to capitalize on underlying opportunities.

     

    What does a typical work day as AVP at Tata Mutual Fund look like?

    I work in the International Business team at Tata Asset Management and work on developing business opportunities around the world. My role is in some ways a combination of Strategy and Business Development with some parts of Product Marketing and Legal thrown in. A typical day would involve a few client meetings to discuss businesses propositions, preparation of some product/marketing documents (presentations, reports etc) on our key investment strategies, internal meetings to monitor the financials of the business vertical, and a bit of structuring work with some consultants and lawyers (in house and/or external).

     

    Did you have a mentor or guide during the formative years of your career?

    I usually don’t prefer using the term “mentor” whether in someone else’s or in my context, but I do think it’s important to have people to look up to for counsel. Having said that, I also think it’s important to be in tune with what you really want. Only once you have that clarity can you really take a call on whom to approach and what you want to imbibe. In my case I’ve been lucky to have met such people at various stages of my career who have been kind enough to share their experiences/perspectives and have been supportive even if I went with my gut on something. My bosses and colleagues in Kotak, SBI Funds, Tata Asset Management, and my professors and peers through the years have all had an influence on me in one way or the other.

     

    How do you manage your time between your professional and personal interests?

    I believe that just as it is important to prioritize work and give your 100% in the office, it is equally important to switch off every once in a while to recharge your batteries. I try to manage my time in such a way that most of the work gets done during the five working days. Unless there is some business exigency, I usually try to keep my weekends free and only access my mails once or twice to clear some important emails.

    I have always been passionate about travelling. Having lived in ten cities till date, the idea of being in a place for too long doesn’t appeal to me. This is also a reason why I enjoy the ever changing world of International Business. Like most other people who love to travel, the love for food, experiencing new cultures and some kind of inclination towards fitness is also a given and applies in my case as well.

    Rohan Joshi at ESADE with the ex­-Secretary General of NATO and the Executive Director of IMF
    (former Dy. Governor of RBI)

     

     

     

     

    What are the challenges you have faced in building up your career as it stands today?
    My career, as the case may be with many of my peers, is still work in progress. There have been a few challenges along the way, leaving law and switching careers was a major one.

    I don’t usually give a lot of thought to where I would be at a certain point in the future. I enjoy what I do currently and think that I have the right skill sets and background to make a reasonable contribution in similar roles. So wouldn’t mind continuing being in a similar role in this or some other industry five years down the line.

     

    Giving the dynamic nature of the field you practice in, how do you keep yourself updated about the latest happenings in your field?

    Being in International Business, you have to be up to date with a lot of things. Besides being keeping track of market requirements and your own offerings, keeping in tune with the dynamic competitor landscape, the global markets and regulations is very important. There is a fair bit of reading and research that goes on and that usually suffices. However it’s important not to get so tied up with research that you lose focus of running/developing the business. Hence I talk to the consultants and lawyers to understand their view on some of the major developments from time to time. This helps me and my management take an informed view on critical issues pertaining to our business.

    ​

    What advice would you like to give our readers, who are mostly law students and young lawyers?

    I don’t know if I’m qualified to give advice but I’d only ask young lawyers to be a bit pragmatic about their choices, especially the ones who are not looking to practice or join law firms. Law is a very broad field of study that equips you with a unique set of skills that have very wide spread applications. For the people joining corporate as in-house counsels, I’d just say that besides striving for excellence in the legal work, make sure you understand the business your company is in. This will help you look things in the right perspective and enable you to discharge your duties more effectively.

     

     

  • Subhodeep Jash, Masters candidate, Hertie School of Governance, on policy analysis, being an ace quizzer, and studying in Europe

    Subhodeep Jash, Masters candidate, Hertie School of Governance, on policy analysis, being an ace quizzer, and studying in Europe

    Subhodeep Jash graduated from Symbiosis Law School, Pune, batch of 2010. He subsequently went on to become a Young India Fellow, and is an alumni of their founding batch. After successful stints with the Department of Commerce, Government of India, and AZB & Partners, he started working with Dua Consulting as Senior Consultant (Regulatory and Public Affairs), where he was responsible for managing and implementing advocacy programs for Google, Cognizant, Harley Davidson, Hershey’s and others. He also drafted position papers, stakeholder maps and policy monitor reports for their government affairs programs. He is currently enrolled at the Master’s program at Hertie School of Governance, Berlin, with a focus on public policy analysis.

    In this interview, we speak to him about:

    • His passion for quizzing and holding a Limca record for the same
    • Studying public policy, and the need for more lawyers to engage in policy reform
    • Studying in Europe, and his plans for the future

     

    How would you like to introduce yourself to our readers?

    A lawyer by training and a policy wonk by profession, albeit now in a more academic capacity as a Master’s Candidate at the Hertie School of Governance, Berlin. I have a particular interest in policy debates centred around the digital economy.  I also happen to be a huge cinephile (including TV shows), a trivia nerd, and an ardent supporter of Manchester United.

     

    What motivated you to pursue law?

    I wouldn’t say that I knew with certainty during high school that I wanted to take up law. I guess the most appropriate way to describe this would be that I stumbled into it knowing about law as a career path. Initially, having chosen to pursue science (in the engineering stream) in my 12th grade in school, I didn’t have the benefit of knowing about the wider spectrum of alternate careers such as law and economics. However, I guess the seeds were sown at a very basic level in the general interest I took in current affairs as a quizzer as well in civics during my history lectures for the boards in class 10.

    But once I took the decision, I knew that the profession would be challenging, lucrative, intellectually stimulating, and one which plays a significant role in shaping social and economic relations across the globe. The profession does demand a great deal of analytical ability, good research and interpersonal skills, and teamwork, which to some extent I have acquired in law school and over the course of my professional tenure as a researcher at the Ministry of Commerce and as a Consultant at Dua Consulting.

     

    Tell us about how you developed a passion for quizzing and how you continue to pursue it as a prominent interest?

    (Subhodeep has won several quizzing accolades, and also holds the national record in the Limca Book of Records for conducting the first ever quiz in the Antarctic Peninsula in March 2016.)

    From an early age, I had developed a habit of random reading and learning outside my curriculum. This led to my interest in quizzing. Quizzing is an endless mind game which helps individuals keep abreast of developments in general and in their area of interest. It is much more than a trivial pursuit and is as much about knowledge as problem solving. I guess the pinnacle of taking quizzing as a passion forward in a really big way occurred while at law school, where I essentially took more of an interest in participating in quiz competitions over moot courts.

    My interest in knowledge-driven initiatives continued post law school in my association with Walnut Knowledge Solutions (WKS). The idea of starting Walnut occurred in 2011, while I was studying in the Young India Fellowship program. Along with three of my friends from law school, who I believe are amongst the most excellent quizzing minds in India, we envisaged WKS as a knowledge delivery firm utilizing quizzing and other similar knowledge based devices as a means of learning, engagement, and development across schools and colleges.  However, since I didn’t wish to deep dive into this in a more full-time capacity, Sachin and Raghav, the two founding partners took this up as a full-time passion project and it gives me great pleasure to see how they’ve grown with this venture. I did wish to remain on board in a more advisory capacity, and hence I do still keep myself engaged with them. When Sachin and Raghav heard that I was heading to the Antarctic for an expedition, they thought that it would be a great platform for me to conduct a quiz surrounding climate change and related issues right in the heart of the Antarctic Peninsula. Just before I was leaving for the expedition, I was telling them how cool would it to be conduct a quiz there and we were wondering on whether something like this has been done on the Antarctic. The rest, as they say, is history!

     

    Could you tell us what it was like to be a part of the international delegation of young leaders to travel on the expedition to the Antarctic with Robert Swan?  

    I was a part of the India delegation selected for the International Antarctic Expedition 2016 organized by the 2041 Foundation which hosted a leadership program in the Antarctic to debate climate change issues. The Expedition is founded with a mission to inform, engage and inspire the next generation of leaders to take responsibility, be sustainable, and know that now is the time for action in policy development, sustainable business generation and future technologies. This took place for a twelve day period in March 2016 and was led by Robert Swan, OBE, one of the world’s preeminent polar explorers and environmental leaders, who is the first person to have walked both, the North and South Poles.

    At a personal level, the myriad of landscapes, wildlife & elemental forces experienced there is quite indescribable.  Be it the craggy crevasse of a glacier or the sheer expanse of polar ice, whale-spotting or gazing upon a penguin rookery, zodiac cruising or taking a polar plunge. The glacial calving on display there also portends the urgent need for us to introspect on the need for immediate action when it comes to climate change.

    Subhodeep Jash with Robert Swan

     

    Can you tell us about representing your university at some very prestigious events?

    (He has represented Symbiosis Law School at the TATA Crucible Quiz in 2008.)

    I was fortunate to have found an excellent quizzing partner in the form of my batch mate, Suvajit at Symbiosis Law School. We managed to excel in many of these business quizzes and won several competitions. Winning the Pune regionals of Tata Crucible Business Quiz, a national level business quiz (telecast on CNBC TV18) was definitely a high point, especially at the time, given the fact that we were one of the youngest teams in the fray and also as typically a law school wouldn’t be fancied much at these business quiz competitions.

     

    What were your areas of interest during your legal education?

    My theoretical interest in public policy comes from my academic training in Symbiosis Law School and the Young India Fellowship (YIF). At law school, courses in international trade law and arbitration helped me grasp the intricate linkages between the international trade system with industrialization, globalization and multinational corporations. Assignments in law school, business quizzes in national forums, moot court exercises and internships have all been instrumental in inculcating teamwork, adaptability and most importantly, opening up to the idea of a more multi-disciplinary breadth in perspective needed to take up public policy as a career path.

    The impetus towards choosing the career path in public policy was shaped largely by the opportunity to pursue a one year stint with the Commerce Ministry, Government of India straight after law school. I was working as a research trainee with the then Joint Secretary, Mr. Rajeev Kher at the Trade Policy Division on international trade policy issues- WTO and bilaterals.  I was involved in preparation of opinions and research papers to examine the scope of liberalization of certain sectors in the country under the GATS regime. During my tenure, I observed the Free Trade Agreement (FTA) negotiations with EU, Canada and Singapore and carried out background work in this regard. Therefore, these experiences were quite formative in shaping my interest in this field.

     

    Tell us about the post graduate course as part of the Young India Fellowship that you pursued from Ashoka University.

    The Young India Fellowship (YIF) was a holistic learning environment; we had renowned faculty members and mentors and we were exposed to a wide array of practitioners and phenomenal eminent scholars across various disciplines. The courses on economics and public policy taught by leading development economist A. K. Shiva Kumar, international relations by Devesh Kapur (Director, Center for the Advanced Study of India, University of Pennsylvania) and ethics and technology by Kenneth Foster had a deep impact on me, providing the motivation and tools required to look into policy problems from multiple perspectives and not just from the lens of a lawyer. The selection to the YIF was through a highly competitive process. I was among 57 fellows selected for the program, and that too on a full scholarship for the founding batch (of 2012). This post-graduate liberal arts and leadership development program, run by Ashoka University in collaboration with the University of Pennsylvania, was created with the objective of nurturing potential change agents amongst the youth in India. And, this one year experience was quite the tipping point for me in developing the conviction that I don’t really want to take up the more traditional or mainstream career as a lawyer working at a firm or in the sphere of litigation.

    What was the experience like working as a Project Trainee for AZB?

    I was involved in an eight-month Experiential Learning Module (ELM) project with AZB & Partners, dealing with Competition Law and Policy in India. The project demanded an understanding the Indian Jurisprudence of Competition Act, 2002 in relation to the influence carried in the Western philosophy of evolution of anti-trust jurisprudence. I prepared a report that looked into the legal & economic implications on India’s current Anti-trust regime under the aegis of decisions taken by the antitrust regulator, Competition Commission of India (CCI). It was a great learning experience, especially aided by the able guidance of our mentor for the project, Ms. Vinati Kastia.

     

    What did a typical day of work like for you at your time in Dua?

    I worked as a Senior Consultant (Govt. Affairs) with Dua Consulting, the regulatory and public affairs arm of one of India’s leading law firms (Dua Associates) for a span of four years.  My responsibilities included managing government affairs advocacy programs for clients across verticals such as IT, telecom, pharma, etc. on specific issues pertaining to their business interests.

    Besides the regular clientele work, I also handled the drafting of varied independent submissions to the consultation processes initiated by the telecom regulator- TRAI on issues ranging from spectrum valuation, network neutrality to broadband access and delivery. I believe that this part of my job added an extra dimension to my work expertise and moreover, in developing my interest in the specific area of ICT (information and communication technologies), especially having the privilege of able mentorship from Mr. BK Syngal, a Senior Principal at the firm and the former Chairman and Managing Director of VSNL.

     

    What motivated you to quit your job at Dua and pursue a Master’s degree?

    I always did harbour a realization that a more theoretical underpinning and greater academic exposure was needed beyond my training as a lawyer at Symbiosis or in liberal arts at the Young India Fellowship. Hence, I’d made up my mind, around 2014, that I would look to take up a Master’s program in Public Policy.

     

    What was the application process like for the Hertie School of Governance?

    The application process at Hertie, as with most policy school applications require a Letter of Motivation, which is more or less akin to a Statement of Purpose, the CV and a broad application form fulfilling certain basic criteria along with two letters of recommendation (one each from the academic and professional spheres).

    By the time I applied to Hertie last year, I think I’d become seasoned in writing these policy applications. The first program in fact I’d applied to, was the newly initiated Master of Public Policy (MPP) program at National Law School, Bangalore in the summer of ‘14. I did get an offer from NLS but I wasn’t quite convinced about taking up an MPP in India at the point. Hence, I took the GRE and decided to apply for US policy schools initially in 2015. I did receive admission offers from the Walsh School of Foreign Service at Georgetown, Fletcher School of Law and Diplomacy at Tufts and SAIS at Johns Hopkins but none of these schools offered a significant scholarship, which was imperative for me to take up a program in the US.

    Hence, I had to weigh in and take a hard call that I needed to refocus my energies and look at programs in Europe. That’s how I decided to look at the Hertie school, as it seemed to have a great program. A program in Europe also costs significantly lower than the ones in the US, so with the partial scholarship that I received from Hertie, the decision became easier this time around.

     

    How are you finding the academic environment at the Hertie School of Governance?

    The academic environment at the Hertie School of Governance is indeed rigorous and challenging, but at the same time the work load isn’t that strenuous that wouldn’t let you soak in the cultural vibe of being in a city like Berlin. I have just completed my first semester which primarily covered core foundational courses in Statistics and Economics along with courses in Public Management and a course on Comparative Political Economy. Right now, as I begin my 2nd semester, I’m in fact taking a Law and Governance course that would examine economic ordering through law in a more European context.

    Besides the academic rigor, I’m part of an editorial team of the school’s policy magazine, The Governance Post.  During my spare time, I also work as a volunteer with Cinema Politica, a Canadian non-profit organization that hosts alternative and independent film screenings in Berlin.

     

    India often looks to the West and their experiences in developing legislations on emerging fields; how important is it to find an Indian approach to policy making that is indigenous and suited to the Indian context as opposed to borrowing from foreign legislations?

    That’s a very good question and quite interesting that you ask me this. I recall that when I was working at the Commerce Ministry and trying to understand the nuts and bolts that comprise policymaking, the process of developing legislations intrigued me especially while examining the discussion paper on FDI in Multi Brand Retail at the time. The process, which is more or less straitjacketed towards floating a consultation paper, seeks stakeholder inputs and these inputs are then clubbed as per the stakeholder responding to it (i.e., industry, civil society, think tanks, etc.)

    What didn’t seem organic in this entire process for me, was the very basic initial step, the basis on which this initial consultation paper is floated. There is indeed a tendency for us to just pick up international best practices and blindly suggest a model policy along those lines. Thereafter, of course, I’ve had varied experiences of dealing with consultation papers, which have been evolving towards a more Indianized approach. Definitely, one of the most effective and transparent policy making processes we have in place in this country is the route adopted by TRAI.

    I believe, going forward, as we deal with regulation-making in the space of innovation and the digital economy, a more sandbox environment needs to be thought about; that is, to bring in a more collaborative approach with multiple stakeholders involved right from the ancillary stage of floating a consultation paper on a particular issue which would usher in a proactive than reactive paradigm to the policy making process.

     

    Do you feel that law schools have been successful in producing socially relevant lawyers and researchers in the field of policy reform?

    I do believe that with the growing recognition of law as a career path beyond family lines, as was prevalent even to some extent when I entered law school, there has been a steady churn of lawyers doing really exciting work that is of great social value. There is of course, now a lot more national schools out there to present prospective lawyers with more options in terms of range of institutions. I guess students in law schools should very much explore alternate paths when it comes to internships and I personally find organizations such as Vidhi, Internet Freedom Foundation, or even something like PUCL very apt in this regard.

    But I think there’s still more institutional reform needed in the way the legal profession is governed. Liberalizing the legal services sector would be a bold step in this regard; it’s been an issue that’s been delayed for long, as I recall that this was a point of discussion in the WTO services negotiations, back in 2011. While working at the Ministry, I did even draft a submission in this regard as part of the work at the Trade Policy Division.  This would not only be ideal for competition in the traditional legal space but healthy also for opening up new vistas in the more non-conventional paths.

     

    What are your plans after graduating?

    I would like to see myself working in a multifaceted institution and work on finding solutions to complex global challenges through the use of technology as an enabler and a driver of inclusive growth in developing nations. The Master’s program that I’m pursuing, I hope will contribute towards providing me with that impetus.

    I haven’t really thought about this extensively, but I would prefer working with an international organization in the immediate future.

    What would be your parting message to our readers?

    I’d strongly encourage those who are either in law school or looking to enter law school, that they should do so with an open mind in terms of the breadth of options that exist beyond a career at a law firm or in litigation. Even for those, who do make up their mind in taking up a traditional career in law, I think it is important that when it comes to the learning aspect, to go beyond just the core law courses and explore learning about developments in other field(s) such as economics and social anthropology. The law school in itself might not provide you the breeding ground on this; hence it’s important to take this initiative by yourself. This would especially help you in understanding problems from multiple perspectives.

    And, if anyone does want to explore a career in public policy, post law school, I’d be more than happy to share my thoughts and experiences with them.

     

  • Atika Prasad, IP Attorney, Wahl Clipper Corporation, on studying in America, practising internationally and striking work-life balance

    Atika Prasad, IP Attorney, Wahl Clipper Corporation, on studying in America, practising internationally and striking work-life balance

    Atika Prasad graduated from Symbiosis Law School in 2012. She subsequently went on to pursue her Masters from George Washington University, with a focus on Intellectual Property Law. She worked at a boutique patent law firm for about six months, following which she returned to India. She is currently IP Attorney at Wahl Clipper Corporation, where she handles the company’s world-wide IP enforcement.

    In this interview we speak to her about:

    • Being a first generation lawyer
    • Building a strong IP Law practice
    • Managing time between work and personal interests

    Were you always fascinated by the field of IP law?

    IPR is a field that is vast and constantly evolving. The prevalent laws are reformed from time to time in order for it to be in sync with the advancement of technology. In the early years of law school, I was inclined to pursue litigation and was more interested in civil procedural and substantive laws. Soon after, I was introduced to IP and Corporate Law. I was immediately drawn towards the connection between law and the dynamics of innovation. I realized that IP is one such branch of law that forms part of every transaction and has several relevant consequences.

     

    How did you build up your expertise in IPR?

    To keep my knowledge in the field of IP abreast with ongoing changes, I try to take up IP specific short-term courses from time to time. After completing my LL.M., I undertook a two-week course conducted by the WIPO at the USPTO on Copyright and related rights.  Over a period of two weeks, 40 young professionals, selected from across the globe, deliberated over the intersection of International and domestic IP laws of their respective countries. Thereafter, I worked at Hershkovitz & Associates, a Patent Law Firm in Alexandria, Virginia, for a brief period. In February 2014, I started working as Wahl’s IP attorney to handle their IP portfolio and my responsibilities predominantly included enforcement and border protection measures in India. Wahl provided me with the option of combining my understanding of the laws of India and that of the US. I have also been afforded the opportunity to represent Wahl at different platforms across the globe, INTA being one of them. Wahl encourages their employees to continue learning by means of short-term distance learning courses. While being at Wahl, I have completed a few certificate courses conducted by organisations such as FICCI and WIPO.

     

    Tell us about your schooling and early life. What, according to you, sparked your interest in law?

    To be the daughter of an eminent orthopedic surgeon (my father) and a renowned histopathologist and former president of IMA (my mother), life has been a sine wave. On one hand you get everything, the right advice, the right resources, and the right environment; on the other hand, living up to the expectations is certainly not easy.

    In school, I lived in the shadow of my elder brother (now a neurologist in USA) and teachers would always compare me with him and his achievements. All that did was to encourage me to put my best foot forward in whatever task and assignment I undertook. Come to think of it, choosing law as a profession was not that difficult of a decision. I had made up my mind when I was thirteen. I was amazed with the idea that throughout my entire life I can continue to be creative in my thought process, read every day, write, get introduced to new people, think and analyze issues and put forth my opinion.

     

    How important are internships for a law student?

    I feel law schools in India mostly provide theoretical knowledge rather than providing a practical insight. The practical aspect of legal system in India is too distinct from the theoretical aspect. This is where internships play an imperative role in enabling a law student to gain firsthand experience of court practice and understand the practical application of legal theory better. I think varied options of pursuing internships under Advocates practicing at different levels of court in different cities, law firms and corporations, widens the prospects of possible practice fields for a law student. Hands on experience in so far as the practical implications that the profession demands, is an added factor which assists a law student in making one of the most important decisions of being a litigator or a corporate attorney.

     

    How do you maintain your work-life balance?

    Working for a multinational company not only requires an individual to possess legal acumen but also entails certain added responsibilities. My work profile demands extensive travel to different countries every month. As they say, the transition phase in one’s life is the most important and the sooner one is able to achieve a balance between the conflicting interests of work and life, the better it is for one’s own development in the longer run. Personally, I feel lucky to be married to a workaholic lawyer who not only understands the level of commitment which this profession demands but also encourages me on a regular basis to deliver to the best of my capabilities. Moreover, Wahl gives me a great amount of flexibility, which in effect helps me manage work and personal life.

    How did you decide to pursue an LL.M.?

    Pursuing an LLM was a well thought out decision, which was taken after much consideration and strongly encouraged by my family. While I was studying IP, I realized that the various treaties and conventions to which the country in question is a signatory, govern domestic IP laws. Apart from the various domestic issues involved in this area of law, it also has far reaching international and commercial implications. These factors reinstated my decision to have an in depth knowledge in the subject and specialize in the same. I was convinced that international exposure in the field of IP law via comparative analysis of a developed jurisprudence would be helpful and it actually was.

     

    What are the essential skills required to be a corporate lawyer?

    Every corporation/law firm/company has a completely different work culture. As a corporate lawyer, one needs to understand the work culture of the corporation for which one works. As far as my experience goes, I believe inter-personal skills are to be given far more credence while representing a corporation. If an individual chooses to practice as a corporate attorney then a conscious effort from the very beginning in grooming communication skills would certainly be advisable. One needs to constantly understand the concerns of the company.  Apart from that, it is always helpful to be aware of general commercial development with respect to the relevant industry practices and also be updated on the same.  Primarily, every corporate lawyer should always have a result-oriented approach, should be able to think on one’s feet and improvise when needed.

     

    What are the primary professional ethics you follow while at work?

    While prioritizing the interests of the company, I ensure that I listen and understand what the other person has to say and wants, without interjection. Also, management of time is crucial and I make sure that I am clear on the deadlines of any work that is to be done and accordingly, if need be, prioritize. One needs to be mindful that timely adherence to the deadlines while being the face of the corporation reflects not only on the attributes of an individual but also the corporation.

    It’s perfectly human to make mistakes while executing any task; the key is to learn from it as soon as you commit them. Apart from this, it is of utmost importance that an attorney religiously follows the internal code of conduct and other policies of the corporation.

     

    Where do you see yourself ten years down the line?

    When I was doing my law, I just thought that I would be the country head of a multinational company in ten years. Three years ago, when I joined Wahl as a young attorney who handled their IP portfolio only for India, I did not know that within three years I would be handling their worldwide IP enforcement.

    While working towards one’s goal, one has a better understanding of the opportunities that come along and one’s own capabilities. With the support of my family and the opportunities given to me by my superiors, I can say without a doubt that I have all the determination to be a sprightly attorney, a finisher who has the eye for detail and a manager who takes initiative. I believe my ultimate aim after ten years is the coveted YPO membership, an organization which needs no introduction and its membership would truly be a dream come true.

     

    What is the role of an In-House/General Counsel in India?

    As of now, my role as the IP attorney of Wahl Clipper Corporation is multifold. I began with handling the IP enforcement of the company with respect to India, in 2014. A few more jurisdictions including the Asia Pacific, Africa, Russia, and UAE were added to my work profile last year and now I handle their worldwide IP enforcement. The job is as challenging as it sounds. Being responsible for so many different countries with different time zones definitely leads to a great deal of travelling and efficient time management.

    As part of the global IP enforcement of the company, I handle IP infringement related lawsuits and negotiations, Trademark and Copyright Customs registrations and also supervise online enforcement. With the laws and regulatory procedures becoming more complex, I believe it is the foremost responsibility of an in-house counsel to secure the interests of the Company from any present or future impediments.

    What would be your parting message to our readers?

    Every day is a learning process. I think willingness/eagerness to learn, skillful time management along with creatively strategizing on the issues at hand, are the most important qualities that one can possess. One should consider failures as stepping stones to success.

     

  • Joyjayanti Chatterjee, Research Fellow, Vidhi Center for Legal Policy, on studying in Columbia and her experience in corporate law

    Joyjayanti Chatterjee, Research Fellow, Vidhi Center for Legal Policy, on studying in Columbia and her experience in corporate law

    Joyjayanti Chatterjee graduated from Symbiosis Law School in 2011. She went on to pursue her Masters from Columbia University, with a focus on Antitrust Law, Intellectual Property Law, and Corporate Law. She is currently a Research Fellow at Vidhi Centre for Legal Policy. She is part of a team which advises the Government of India on various aspects of corporate law and financial regulation. Prior to this, Joyjayanti was an associate in the Competition Law team of Shardul Amarchand Mangaldas and Co.

    In this interview we speak to her about:

    • Her time in Columbia, the curriculum and studying abroad
    • Her internship experience
    • Her time at Vidhi, the nature of her job, and the responsibilities it entails

    How would you like to introduce yourself to our readers?

    This already sounds like a job interview! I am a first-generation lawyer and policy enthusiast, a bibliophile, and a feminist. I believe in staying true to one’s beliefs, working towards realizing goals and dreams while never taking life or yourself too seriously.

    What motivated you to take up law?

    Frankly, I feel that at the age of seventeen, very few people really know what they want to do with their lives and I was no different. In that sense, I cannot say that I had always been inclined towards law, or any other career, for that matter.

    Growing up, I was a voracious reader and deeply interested in the humanities and social sciences. At the same time, having studied science in class 11 and 12 equipped me with analytical skills and encouraged me to question things and not accept ideas at their face without due scrutiny. I also had a lot of ideas at that point (some of them a tad too idealistic, in retrospect) of going out there and changing the world. That time period also happened to coincide with the unprecedented mass movements surrounding the Jessica Lal murder trial and the Novartis litigation which finally paved the way for cheaper life-saving drugs in India. These events deeply affected me as an impressionable youngster. A crash course with law school tutorials brought me in touch with some really cool lawyers who mentored us and I realized the importance of good lawyers in our society and I guess I wanted to be one of them.

    All of this, coupled with some healthy encouragement from my parents led me to take up law as a choice of career.

     

    Share with us your experience as a student at Symbiosis International University.

    My stint at Symbiosis Law School was an enriching and enjoyable experience. Apart from sound academic training, I learnt a host of important life-skills from my time spent there. Moving from the small town of Dehradun to the cosmopolitan city of Pune was in many ways a culture shock but I found my footing and made some good friends fairly quickly. Spending five very formative years of my life surrounded by smart and gifted people from around the country influenced me deeply and has significantly contributed towards moulding me into the person I am today.

    Law schools usually provide opportunities to engage in a host of extra-curricular and co-curricular activities and I think that this is something all students should take full advantage of. Be it sports, mooting, debating, fine arts, or even slam poetry, there is something to suit all personalities.

    While in law school I actively took part in moots court competitions and represented my college in a number of them. I also helped organising multiple editions of our college fest. I was a member of the Human Rights Cell and taught underprivileged children over a period of five years, which was one of the experiences I cherish the most.

    Dividing time between activities and studies is largely a matter of balancing of priorities. Whatever be the reason for taking up an activity—be it to further your CV or to do something you love—you’ll find your way around to it.

     

    Tell us about your internship experience and how that helped you realise your ambitions?

    Internships are no doubt important for law students. I did not, however, follow a fixed strategy towards internships. I had my share of good and not-so-good internships but they all taught me something or the other. For instance, one particular internship exposed me to (what was then still in the drafting stage) Competition Law and led me to study it and then go on to practise it. Other internships helped me realise and hone my love for intellectual property. Some internships helped me find some wonderful friends and mentors. Most importantly, the internships gave me a real-life experience of law which cannot be taught in classrooms.

     

    How was your experience working at Shardul Amarchand and Mangaldas & Co.?

    I had been interested in Competition Law right from the time I was first exposed to it during an internship. I was fascinated by the intersection of law, economics and policy that this field of law presented. Competition Law was also among my areas of study during my LL.M. The fact that it was the “new-kid-on-the block” of law in India added to its charm. Upon my return to India after completing my LL.M., Shardul Amarchand Mangaldas and Co. interviewed me and offered me a position in their Competition Law Team. SAM’s competition law team has some of the best and the brightest legal brains in the country and the experience taught me a lot; from the nuances of competition law to managing the pressures of working in Big Law. Working on some of the most significant issues in an emerging and exciting field of law was very satisfying professionally.

     

    What motivated you to quit your job and pursue a Master’s degree?

    I always had the intention of eventually pursuing a Master’s degree. However, I wanted to gather some work experience before that. My family is also very academically inclined and always encouraged me and almost insisted on me studying further. For me, studying further was never just about getting another degree but more also about living in a foreign country, being exposed to a plurality of cultures and view points, and having a lot of adventures. All these factors led me to pursue a Master’s degree.

     

    What are the parameters one should look at while choosing a grad school for LL.M.?

    The overall profile of the college/university one is applying to, the range of course offerings, and how well one’s particular area of interest ties in with these factors are important criteria, in my opinion. All schools have their strengths when it comes to specializations and faculty and I would encourage prospective applicants to examine these in detail. Most foreign law schools (I can at least speak of US law schools) have a gamut of information, including details about courses, course and professor ratings, reviews, etc. on their websites which serve as an excellent resource. A lot of schools, by virtue of location and/or university affiliation offer added advantages and these can form an important part of the consideration as well. For instance, Columbia Law School is in the city of New York and allows cross credits in not just other schools under Columbia University but also NYU. It allows students a lot of flexibility while choosing courses and offers a wide variety of activities. These affected my decision making considerably.

    I applied to a few other US law schools like NYU, Berkeley, Chicago, and Georgetown.

    What was the academic environment like at Columbia Law School?

    The academic environment at Columbia was very different from what I was used to in India. American universities are very mature in their treatment of students and also expect a lot of maturity in return. While you’ll be given a lot of freedom and leeway when it comes to course selections and other academic choices, the Socratic method requires preparing extensively for every class (often involving hundreds of pages of readings), being ready to be “called on” in class and making meaningful contributions to the class discourse. The quality of classes, professors and infrastructure was unparalleled. I loved the fact that I had people of so many nationalities and from so many walks of life around and the constant encouragement to voice one’s ideas, no matter how far-fetched or ludicrous.

    Also, we had a seemingly endless supply of free food and free coffee and cookies on the campus.  Trust me, when you are a grad student keeping a tab of every dollar spent, these things matter!

    I was the LL.M. representative for the Antitrust Association and helped organize a number of events. I was also members of the Columbia Law Women’s Association and the Gastronomy Club.

     

    How did you decide to join Vidhi as a Research Fellow?

    While I never doubted my choice of law as a career option, I never saw myself in a law firm setting for the entirety of my legal career. Legal policy in India is still a niche area and there are not too many people doing this work. I knew about Vidhi and was intrigued by how they had made a mark in the legal policy sphere in a very short period of time. I was also awed by the immense talent Vidhi housed. Just as I was looking for a shift, Vidhi was also looking to hire for its Corporate Law and Financial Regulation team. This aligned perfectly with the direction I wanted my legal career to take and I ended up joining Vidhi as a Research Fellow.

     

    What is the nature of your work at Vidhi Centre for Legal Policy?

    My work at Vidhi focuses on policy and research. Vidhi’s objectives are to plug the gaps in our legal system and to facilitate better working of our legal system. To these ends, we engage with various ministries and offer legislative and drafting assistance to them. Vidhi fellows are also instrumental in identifying problem areas in the socio-legal framework and carrying out independent research reports on them.

    Working at Vidhi has been a truly wonderful experience and has helped me grow professionally as well as personally. The atmosphere at Vidhi is intellectually stimulating and at the same time, vibrant, and tons of fun. I have seen first-hand the transition of ideas and reports into fully functional laws and much required changes in the legal system. This is a very gratifying, not to mention a great learning experience. Vidhi entrusts its fellows with a lot of responsibility and encourages them to do high level work and take ownership of it. Our work also involves continuous interaction with various members of the Government, members of regulatory bodies and industry experts. These experiences have polished my analytical, research and problem-solving skills. Another important skill I have picked up is the manner of interacting with a variety of stakeholders and effectively balancing their interests while keeping in mind the overall policy issue at hand.

     

    What advice would you like to give students who are keen on publishing?

    Most of my publications are newspaper articles. There is no set approach towards authoring a paper or a publication, really. Pick a topic that interests you. Be mindful of your audience. Are you targeting a non-lawyer, non-academic audience or are you catering to your fellow lawyers? Tweak your approach accordingly. Keep your writing nuanced rather than trying to address too many issues in one piece. Check and cross check your data and as far as possible, rely on primary sources. Aim on using simple, easy understandable language rather than grandiloquent prose.

     

    What are your interests outside law? How do you find time to pursue them along with your professional commitments?

    I enjoy reading, listening to music, cooking, and occasionally writing. Delhi, for all its flaws, has a lot of history and culture, and I try to take the time to explore these aspects of the city. From time to time, I try to take up a new project, be it trying to learn the basics of a new language or educating myself in a new (preferably non-law) topic.

    It is not always easy to make time for various pursuits but it boils down to the fact that if you really want to, you can make the time for interests in the face of professional commitments.

     

    What would be your parting message to our readers?

    When it comes to picking a career path, choose something you believe in and are invested in and as far as possible, enjoy doing. The virtues of hard work, focus and determination have been gone into by far more qualified peers on this platform so I won’t delve deeper into that.  For the new graduates or those on the verge of graduating, don’t fret if you don’t land the dream job or the admission in the first attempt. Do not worry about having/not having a plan.

    A law degree opens many doors and there are a lot of directions a career in law can take. Have an open mind and do not restrict yourself in the decisions you make. Be well rounded and well read, and not just in the field of law. Restricting your pursuit of knowledge to your field alone denies you the advantages of versatility and inter-sectoral thinking.

    Lawyers, especially in the initial years of their careers tend to have busy and often grueling schedules. Do try to make time for pursuits, activities and talents. The importance of friends, family and loved ones cannot be stressed upon harder and you’ll constantly need all their support.

     

     

  • Bharadwaj Jaishankar, Attorney, Associate Partner at Sim and San, on being a first generation lawyer, his experience in IP Law, and the importance of internships

    Bharadwaj Jaishankar, Attorney, Associate Partner at Sim and San, on being a first generation lawyer, his experience in IP Law, and the importance of internships

    Having graduated in 2008 from Symbiosis Law School, Pune, Bharadwaj began his career at K&S Partners, a tier 1 boutique intellectual property law firm. Having spent five years there, he joined Saikrishna & Associates, a tier 1 intellectual property & commercial law firm, in November, 2013. Thereafter, Bharadwaj joined  Sim and San, Attorneys At Law. Bharadwaj has over eight years of solid and in-depth work experience and knowledge in the fields of Intellectual Property and Commercial law.

    In this interview he speaks to us about:

    • His experience in IP Law
    • The transition from working for tier 1 law firms to working with a smaller set-up
    • His foray into academia

     

    How would you like to introduce yourself to our readers?

    I am a first generation lawyer, with my father being a management guru and my mother who, amongst other activities, is a singer. I have a younger brother, who is an aspiring musician and a music producer. In that sense, it is a fantastic and exciting feeling to know that, where I stand today, is on account of my own efforts and hard-work. That being said, I have been extremely fortunate to have had and continue to have some great mentors in my professional career who have played a vital role in my professional career path. My career has also immensely benefited from the fact that my wife, Raddhika Singh, is also a lawyer.

     

    Could you tell us why you chose B.BA. over a B.A. degree?

    When I joined law school, I had the option of choosing either the B.BA. or BA law degree course. B.BA. was the preferred option for me, as the business subjects (forming part of the course) interested me more. That being said, what I have learnt these past more than eight years is that the specificities of your degree do not matter eventually. Just because someone does the B.A. .LLB course, it does not mean that they are incapable of dealing with commercial/business issues. The same is true inversely. Ultimately, it comes down to the individual.

    By the time I hit high school, I was still unsure of what I wanted to pursue in college. My paternal grandfather, who belonged to the first IAS batch of administrators, played a huge role in directing me towards law. He believed that I had the requisite skills to become a good lawyer. I am extremely thankful for the passion and drive he showed towards my career.

     

    What are the kinds of activities that you took part in during your legal education?

    In college, I made a concerted effort to participate in moot courts. Moot courts are extremely important for a law student. Some of the skills that are acquired through mooting have immense value to a law student, once they become advocates. These skills include (i) understanding the facts at hand and identifying the key issues involved (ii) conducting research and building up of a case (iii) drafting a memorial (iv) arguing the case (v) court manners (vi) identifying and addressing rebuttal arguments etc. All of the above find an application when handling a real case. The value of participating  in moot courts is, therefore, essential and crucial for the development of a good lawyer.

    Appearing both as a speaker and a researcher in several State and National level moot court competitions, there was also scope to mentor mooting teams in my last couple of years in college. A lot of what I learnt through mooting helped me in my initial years as a green-horn in the profession.

    Apart from mooting, I also helped organize seminars, guest lectures and symposiums for college. If anything, these enabled me to interact closely with some of India’s finest legal minds. I was able to pick their brains and gain valuable insight into the profession, as well as get some solid career advice. I certainly feel that, as a law student, it is also important to interact with senior and respected members of the profession, as their practical inputs and advice certainly help in making career choices for law students.

     

    How important are internships for an aspiring lawyer?

    Being a first generation lawyer, it immediately occurred to me, during my first semester in college, that internships would be crucial to me securing a job. In fact, it is through my internships that I was lucky enough to receive a pre-placement offer from K&S Partners (one of India’s leading boutique IP Firms), before college placement madness began for my batch.

    As a law student, and I still hold this opinion today, it is important to experience different kinds of internships. During my five years at law school, I managed to intern with single practitioners, a designated Senior Counsel, general and boutique law firms, a company, and with an international NGO in South Africa. Doing such a wide array of internships certainly helped me zero in on where I wanted to work and, most importantly, the kind of work I wanted to do. There are just so many avenues of law that can be explored. My internships in the initial couple of years gave me exposure to different types of law. Around my third year, I got interested in IP law and, thereafter, my internships focussed on firms that practiced IP law. Through such focussed internships, I was able to get a PPO.

    It is also important to do internships as often as possible. In my time, we did not have the luxury of doing running internships. Nor did we have a set-up whereby minimal subjects were taught in the final year, thereby providing an opportunity to just intern in the final year, with the objective of landing a PPO. In fact, today, my office has a couple of such final year interns; who have only one subject to study. Such opportunities were not there when I was in college.

    Internships become that much more important when one is a first generation lawyer. Building up contacts through internships is important both from getting a job, as well as from a networking perspective. You never know when a contact cultivated through an internship becomes important at a later date. It goes without saying that the approach of work, the work itself and conduct are extremely crucial during an internship. Just because a law student secures a good internship, does not automatically mean that a PPO is possible. The onus is completely on the law student to make the best of their internship. Going the extra mile on assigned work and deliverables does have a make a big difference during an internship. Apart from the work, the conduct and mannerisms of the law student during internships is also important. Apart from showcasing professional ability, I equally feel that showcasing your personality (as an open and approachable person as opposed to being arrogant or cocky) is also important. I guess to sum it up, a law student would want to be remembered in a favourable light after the conclusion of the internship. From my personal experience, I still remember, and am in touch with, some of the interns who really made a mark when interning with me (or my firm).  

     

    How important is it to cultivate the skill of academic writing for young lawyers and students?

    (Bharadwaj has had his works published in a wide array of IPR journals.)

    It is really important for a lawyer to write articles/papers. Yes, with demanding schedules, it is easy to ignore this aspect. Writing articles and getting them published have great professional and personal advantages.  It also gives immense personal satisfaction! Some benefits that accrue from writing papers include:

    1. It brings fantastic exposure to the author. Writing in the right publication, having quality and wide readership, provides a brilliant platform for the author to show himself/ herself. The style of writing, manner, background research, thought process, analytical skills etc., all get showcased.
    2. It provides an opportunity for the author to create a niche and become an industry expert. Who knows, potential clients can emerge from reading articles and publications.
    3. It pushes the author to bring themselves up to speed with the law and developments, both in India and worldwide.
    4. It also helps develop drafting and analytical skills.
    5. Adds immense character and value-add to the author’s profile.

    The list of advantages can be endless. Finding a balance between work, personal life and writing is the key. The balance has to be found. If it means staying up a little longer or writing during a holiday, then I suggest you do it. Personally, I try and plan my schedule in such a way that I carve out time, either on a Saturday or Sunday, to try and write. Sometimes, I am able to write an entire article without a break and other times, other circumstances, force me to write in stages. No matter what the circumstances, I do force myself to write. In a way, making a commitment to a publication forces me to honour the same, thereby giving me no option but to write.

     

     

    Please share with us your experience at K&S Partners, your first job.

    Working at K&S Partners is something that I will always cherish. I spent my first five years in the profession working with K&S Partners. I was lucky enough to intern twice at K&S Partners, before getting my PPO from them. Hence, when I started working, I knew most people there- lawyers and support staff. That helped.

    I can honestly say today that working at K&S Partners played a HUGE part in shaping me as a lawyer and professional. The first office that a lawyer works with will, and should, always hold a special place. Some of my mentors (who continue to mentor me today) are with K&S Partners. In that sense, I consider myself extremely fortunate. Of course, it goes without saying that this is a two way street. I know the amount of effort and application I had to put in at K&S Partners, to ensure that I benefited from anything that was offered to me by the firm.

    As a fresher, I had to put in extra effort to bring myself up to speed with the law and practice. What I learnt, very quickly, was that the law you learn in a classroom is completely different from the law that is practiced. Even after work, I would spend time reading judgments and commentaries, so that the following day, I could add value. For me (and indeed for every aspiring lawyer), along with doing the grunt work, it is equally important to contribute from a strategy perspective. You don’t want to get tagged as a lawyer who can only execute. It is also important to be known as someone who contributes at the ideation and strategy phase as well. K&S Partners allowed me to do that. Of course, I had to ensure that I put myself in such a position where I was able to do that.

    A lot of what I learnt and imbibed at K&S Partners still stay with me today. Working for five years at a tier-1 firm provided me with an excellent launch pad to make a name for myself in this profession. I will always be grateful for the time I spent with K&S Partners. Apart from having some excellent colleagues, I made some lovely friends, with whom I remain in contact till date.

     

    What motivated you to choose IPR as your area of expertise?

    Sometime in my third year of law school, I realized that I had developed an interest in IP law. Till that time, I had done some work, through my internships, on other areas of law. I can’t exactly recall what motivated me to pursue IP. I do recall that working with brand names that form an everyday aspect of my life (from my toothbrush brand to the clothes I wore to the pen I wrote with etc.), did influence me. Interning with K&S Partners, a boutique IP firm, influenced me heavily. The work I did as an intern (twice) around brand names, IP in Bollywood, Image rights etc., really got me excited about IP. I have never looked back since.

    Luckily, through my professional career, I have been able to work with different IPs and work on different aspects of IP. In my experience, what a lot of people don’t realize; is how important IP is and can be. It is really looked upon as just another asset and not as a vital asset that can make or break business. A good IP protection, enforcement and exploitation strategy can mean the very existence (including market domination) or destruction of an entity (be it an individual or corporate house). Especially in today’s start-up environment, big ticket funding, series funding etc. can can be rendered irrelevant, and in fact wasteful, if IP is not protected or secured. Working in such an atmosphere is very exciting for me.

    In fact, for over eight years, I made a conscious effort to stay away from patents on the ground that I did not have a science background. I knew the basics of patent law and the importance of securing and enforcing patents, but I never really touched this aspect of IP law. Now, working with Sim and  San, I am actually engaged in a couple of precedent setting patent matters, which includes the Standard Essential Patent litigations going on in the mobile handset sphere. Suddenly, after eight years of working with trade marks, copyrights, designs and geographical indications, I have discovered that patent law also interests me, which only adds to my excitement around IP laws in India.

     

    Could you share your experience representing industry leaders in the field of technology?

    The experience has been both challenging and exciting. Technology and IP laws are connected and overlap quite a bit. It is, therefore, a great chance to learn about new technology while applying IP law to the same. It is also quite exciting to know that some of the mobile applications and technology devices that one uses day in and day out, are being back-ended by your team from a legal perspective.

    It is also very nice interacting with tech leaders. One of the biggest advantages with working with technology and industry leaders is that you get to learn a lot of new things about IP and technology law and the application of existing law to new fields of technology. Since the technology leaders I was fortunate enough to work with were always looking to push boundaries, applying existing law was extremely exciting and challenging. The other aspect which I really liked was the fact that the technology industry leaders I worked with, had a fresh and dynamic approach to their work and product. Such an approach made it extremely fun working with them.   

     

    How has your experience as visiting faculty at Symbiosis, Noida, been?

    I quite enjoy the experience of being a visiting faculty. After a few years in practice, I was actually looking for a way in which I could give back to my law school. So when I heard that Symbiosis Law School was opening a campus in Noida, and that Dr. C.J. Rawandale was going to be the Director, I got in touch with Rawandale Sir (who was one of the Professors I interacted with a lot during my college days). Sir was immediately keen that I start taking IP classes for the students. Eventually, it also extended to me taking a few classes on Information Technology law as well.

    Being on the other side of the fence, has been an interesting ride. I found it quite amusing that I was, while teaching, asking students to keep quiet, when a few years back I was also probably doing the same very thing. That aside, I learnt, after taking a couple of classes, that teaching is a very challenging profession. It requires a lot of dedication and focus. Teaching at Symbiosis, Noida made me read a lot more because I wanted to keep myself updated on the latest developments in IP law. This, of course, helped me immensely at work as well.

    Also, I learnt being patient and became a better listener, while taking classes. This has also helped me greatly at work, especially when dealing with a difficult client or where I was required to understand client’s requirements before offering advice. That way, teaching has helped me immensely, both as a professional and as a person.

    The other aspect of teaching that I have really benefitted from, is that I got to know some of the students really well, through interactions inside and outside class. This has helped me get good junior associates and interns whenever I have had such a requirement. Plus, some of these students have also become good friends of mine.     

     

    What motivated you to join an emerging Firm, Sim and San, after working in two tier-1 IP firms?

    I just wanted a new and different challenge. Working with K&S Partners and Saikrishna & Associates, two tier-1 IP Firms, provided me with a fantastic foundation in most aspects of IP law. I consider myself extremely fortunate to have worked with these two firms and, that too, with some fantastic lawyers. But I felt that my professional career needed something new. I wanted to feel challenged once again in my professional career and not get comfortable in what I was doing.

    After working at these two offices, I was sure that I did not want to work, at this moment, with a large set-up. I wanted to take a step-back and join a smaller emerging office, where the scope of work is wider and, therefore, a greater opportunity for me to grow as a professional. A very dear friend of mine connected me with Sim and San, Attorneys at Law. He told me of some of the work that Sim and San are doing, which included being involved in some of India’s biggest patent, GI and trade mark matters. I immediately felt that this could be a good match. Thereafter, I met Mohit and Sidhant Goel, Partners at the firm, and we immediately connected. It was very easy to say yes to the offer.

    There is, of course, a big difference in working with a large firm and a smaller firm. The dynamics, work environment and set-up are different, which I found really nice. It felt really nice to work with a small, motivated and young team, who all think on the same wave length and want the same thing as well. It also felt nice to enter an environment where, after a long time, I felt the focus was only on work and not on other stuff. Somewhere, I felt that I needed to make a big change in my professional life, so that my career could advance. I can say that, three months into my new adventure, I am very happy to have taken a leap of faith.

     

    What are some of the benefits and advantages with working with an emerging firm?  

    Today, there are so many emerging firms who claim to be experts in IP law. Choosing a good firm, therefore, is very important. The biggest advantage with a smaller firm is that it provides a tremendous space to express oneself as a professional, thereby offering a bigger opportunity to make a name and reputation. I personally feel that in a smaller firm, there is a greater scope of getting yourself known as a good lawyer.

    In a smaller firm, there is a greater chance of doing everything, as opposed to working in a larger firm that has clear and distinct verticals. I find that as a young lawyer or for someone looking for something fresh (as was my case), working in an environment where everyone does everything offers a greater challenge and scope for learning. I do feel a great opportunity exists to become a good and effective well-rounded lawyer.

    Also, with a smaller firm, the management is usually extremely motivated to establish  a firm foothold in the market and tend to look at problem from a different angle. Plus, there is a determined  effort to be a little different from established firms. This is something that personally appeals to me. Put simply, there is a greater opportunity to become a big fish in a small pond, as opposed to a small fish in a big pond.

     

    What is the experience of being a member of the Emerging Issues Committee of the International Trademark Association (INTA)?

    I am currently a member of the INTA’s Committee on Emerging Issues for the term 2016-2017. Within this Committee, there are various Sub-Committees. The Sub-Committee that I am involved with is looking contributory infringement of intermediaries from a trade mark law perspective.

    The experience in working in such a Committee (including the Sub-Committee) is really nice. I get the opportunity to interact, in depth, with fellow members, who represent firms and companies from around the world. For example, my current Sub-Committee consists of lawyers (in-house and practising) from all five continents. It is a great way to know and understand the development of law (and indeed precedents) that deal with the focus area of the Sub-Committee. I also get the opportunity to explain to my fellow members the state of law in India and the emerging trends, precedents and developments.

    In terms of being a member with organizations like INTA, AIPPI etc., there are quite a few benefits. It obviously affords a fantastic platform to network and build contacts in countries around the world. It also helps in developing mutually beneficial professional relationships between firms. Also, the annual meetings (and other conferences) of these organizations provides a great setting to meet existing clients, cultivate new clients and, also, to meet and catch up with professionals and friends from around the world. Plus, there is a lot of knowledge sharing that happens, which is very useful as a professional.  

     

    What are your interests outside of law?

    Outside of my work, I am a fanatical supporter of Manchester United. I have been so since about 1996. Subject to my work requirements, I try my level best to catch all their games. There have been times where I have compromised on my sleep to try and catch a later kick-off and be at work early next day!

    I also play the sport of Ultimate Frisbee, an American sport, which is one of the fastest growing sports in India. I represent the Delhi Ultimate team. As part of my love for this sport, I am also one of the legal advisors to the Ultimate Players Association of India.

    I also enjoy listening to music, especially blues and jazz, and love travelling.

     

    Finally, what parting advice would you give to our readers considering most of them are young lawyers or law students?

    As parting advice, I would say that becoming a good lawyer is like a test match and not a T20. Given that there are so many avenues of law and varied professional and employment opportunities, choosing the right one is vital. Sometimes, identifying your core/ niche area takes time. The right way, in my opinion, is to be guided by the quality of work and not the salary. It is very easy for a law student or a young lawyer to get swayed by the pay package being thrown their way. Sometimes, the work offered (with the large pay package) works out, sometimes it doesn’t. What should matter is the work and work only. Money will follow if you are enjoying the work.  


     

  • V.C. Mathews, Senior Associate, Sujatha Chaudhri IP Attorneys, on studying in London, IP Law, and being a professor

    V.C. Mathews, Senior Associate, Sujatha Chaudhri IP Attorneys, on studying in London, IP Law, and being a professor

    V.C. Mathews graduated from Symbiosis Law School, Pune, batch of 2008. After working with R.K. Dewan & Co. as Associate for two years, he went on to pursue his Master’s Degree from Queen Mary University of London in Intellectual Property Law. Since then he has worked with IP Gurus and Remfry & Sagar. He is currently working in Delhi as a Senior Associate at Sujata Chaudhri IP Attorneys, where his role entails Trade Mark Filing, assignments, drafting responses, appearing for hearings, preparing legal opinions and portfolio management, Copyright filing and legal advise, Preparing and drafting domain name complaints, Criminal Enforcement, etc. He is also Adjunct Professor at Symbiosis Law School.

    In this interview we speak to him about:

    • His experience in IP Law
    • His experience in academia
    • Pursuing his masters in England

     

    Was taking up law always a part of your career plan?

    I wasn’t very good at Math or Science. So taking up the arts group was the only option. However, at that time, not many schools offered arts in Kerala. Once I got through one of the schools, I had a look at the various options available with a lot of help from my parents and zeroed in on law.

    What was your experience at Symbiosis Law School like?

    The experience in Symbiosis Law School was holistic. It moulded me as a person and in the way I made some amazing friends in my batch and amongst my seniors who till date I am in touch with and meet often. Sports and Moot courts and client counselling were the activities I was involved with in college.

    How did you go about developing an interest in Intellectual Property Rights?

    During the course of our vacations between semesters I used to intern at law firms and under individual lawyers. One of those internships exposed me to Intellectual Property Rights. I liked the subject but was not sure as to if I wanted to take it up as my area of speciality. To discover the same, I did a further two internships with a firm specializing in this field. At the end of those internships, I realized that this was the area of law that I wanted to specialize in. Not many wanted to go into this field at that time as most wanted to do corporate law and the more common fields.

     

    Can you recall any experiences during college or your internships that have played a key role in shaping you as a lawyer?

    Law is a profession where you need to have good relationships with others. If you are specializing in one field having good working relationships with others in others fields of law always helps. To this end, I have a good number of close friends with whom I can rely on and fall back on. They are a source of help both personally and professionally to me. I spent five years of college with them and have spent many more years outside college.

    How important is developing the skill of writing according to you?

    Writing is a good skill to develop and have. Additionally, it helps you learn about the new topics you write upon. We don’t pay a lot of importance to writing and therefore, currently, not many students/practitioners have articles published in the numerous journals/ publications  out there.

    There isn’t any one way for one to develop their writing skills. The only way to better it is to actually start writing.  Start with blog posts and then write in depth articles for journals and publications.  A good place to start for students is their own college journals.

    Tell us about your internship experience.

    Working at a law firm is a lot different from what they teach you in college. Internships only gave me a small insight into the world of a full time lawyer. However, when one comes out of college and into a law firm environment, one has to learn and adapt fast. It is a fast paced environment with its own pressures and one must learn how to handle it.

    In your opinion how crucial is your first job in determining your career path?

    My first job gave me the base to forge ahead. It was tough first year and my second year was not easy either. However, what I learnt in those initial two years still stay with me as it moulded me as a professional.

     

    From your own experiences would you recommend that aspiring LLM candidates work after graduation and then pursue an LLM?

    An LLM is one where you actually specialize and go deeper into a subject of law. This must be taken in all seriousness. When I went for my LLM, I found that my batch had an array of people from different countries. But they were all elder to me. In other countries, those who take up masters take it up after a few years of work. This helps them better understand what is being taught as well as the teaching outside India is very unlike how we are taught in colleges here. Therefore, it is always beneficial to work a few years after graduation, figure out what area of law you want to go into and then do a LLM in that field.

    Tell us about the nature of your work and your experiences working at IP firms.

    (He has worked with Remfry & Co. and presently holds the position of Senior Associate at Sujata Chaudhri IP Attorneys, formerly known as IP Gurus)

    On a single day you could handle a lot of matters in an IP firm, each with its own deadlines and complexities. Many of the issues we deal with have real world implications and must be looked at with the larger commercial picture in mind. It is important, therefore, to find a middle ground between the law and the commercial aspect for clients. This offers many challenges. Additionally, IP law in India is still developing which gives rise to lacunae as well as interpretations to legal concepts. As I handle anti-counterfeiting, it has its own difficulties with the police also being involved. Having to work with them is also a challenge.

     

    Has academia always been of interest to you?

    I am an accidental professor. I never knew I could teach till I was asked to by a former professor. The role is very different from the one that at a law firm, but just as challenging. Being a practitioner helps as my experiences help in holding the attention of the students. Additionally, my classes are more tuned towards the practical teaching of law rather than just the theoretical which has worked with the students.

     

    As a parting note, what advice would you like to leave our readers with, who are mostly budding lawyers?

    There are a number of lawyers coming out each year. In such an environment, one has to ensure that he is different to others. Sitting and looking at resumes I look for the one candidate who has something extra to offer. This is a hard thing to do. However, the need of the hour is that one needs to mould himself to be different from the others. Internships, writing of articles, etc. all help in this regard.

     

  • Shivam Kumar Bimal, Senior Tax Consultant, Deloitte Tax, on studying in the US and practising internationally

    Shivam Kumar Bimal, Senior Tax Consultant, Deloitte Tax, on studying in the US and practising internationally

    Shivam Kumar Bimal is a graduate from Symbiosis Law School, Pune, batch of 2010. He currently serves as an employment tax, employee benefits and executive compensation attorney with Deloitte Tax LLP in the Greater New York area.  He is licensed to practise law in India as well as in the jurisdiction of New York State. While at law school, he was involved in several extra-curricular activities.  After finishing his undergraduate studies, Shivam worked as a law clerk for a year under Justice Surinder Singh Nijjar (now retired) at the Supreme Court of India.  In 2011, he moved to the U.S. to pursue his LL.M. from the prestigious George Washington University Law School and was awarded the reputed Thomas Beurgenthal Scholarship.  After the completion of his LL.M., he worked with a litigation tax law firm in Washington D.C. for three years before moving on to assume his present designation at Deloitte.

    In this interview, we talk to him about:

    • Studying at George Washington University and bagging a scholarship
    • Working with the distinguished tax team at Deloitte
    • Prerequisites for a role in international tax practice

     

    What do your current job responsibilities entail?

    My present job position is both challenging and exciting, as it provides me with many opportunities to learn.  My responsibilities include advising and representing corporate clients before the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) and state taxing authorities for tax audits and/or employment tax-related issues.  I also advise clients on issues related to qualified and non-qualified retirement plans, health and welfare benefits, executive compensation, and deferred compensation plan arrangements.  I have also advised clients on issues related to Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act (FATCA) and Common Reporting Standard (CRS) under OECD.

    What, according to you, is the most important part about law school?

    Grades are by far the most important factor for law students.  When I was in law school, we only had semester end exams and it was easy to achieve high grades compared to the current CPGA system.  The new CGPA curriculum is more competitive and demands greater attention and hard work from students.  In my opinion, good grades will play a vital role initially to get you a first job.  That being said, publications, moot courts and other extracurricular activities are also important.  Drafting articles for publications and participating in moot court competitions provide a platform to improve research, drafting and oratory skills.  I personally feel that publications and being a part of law review helped me be a better lawyer.

     

    How would you describe your experience of having worked as a law clerk under the tutelage of a reputed Supreme Court judge?

    After my graduation from Symbiosis Law School in 2010, I worked with Justice Nijjar for over a year.  It was one of the most challenging and enriching moments for me.  Assisting a Supreme Court Judge is a daunting task for any fresh law graduate.  In India, generally law clerks and judges share a very formal relationship.  However, Justice Nijjar was an exception.  He was friendly, thoughtful and always shared his experiences with his law clerks.

    I remember working several late nights and weekends to prepare draft judgments, briefs on SLPs and other ongoing matters.  I consider myself fortunate to contribute, in my small capacity, to numerous landmark judgments written by him, particularly, Iridium India Telecom Ltd. v. Motorola.  I still share a very close relationship with Justice Nijjar and am grateful for all his help and mentorship.

     

    How did you decide on pursuing an LLM from the George Washington University Law School?

    I remember my conversation with Justice Nijjar where he described how studying in the UK shaped his career.  I had applied to top universities in the UK and the US and was fortunate to receive acceptance from almost all the universities which I applied to.  I decided to attend GW for its high academic calibre as well as the fact that GW offered me the Thomas Buergenthal scholarship, which covered my full tuition.  Moreover, GW is based in the heart of Washington, DC and would provide me with access to many great networking opportunities.

    At GW, I specialized in Business and Finance and was required to take 24 credits including a thesis or research paper.  The courses I took included US law courses like federal tax, international tax, corporations, securities law, antitrust law etc., as well as skilled based class like international negotiations.

     

    How can higher education in the US be distinguished from that in India?

    I had a great time at GW and I am grateful to all my professors and peers.  We had students from 62 different countries.  Sharing my ideas and engaging in thoughtful debate with some of the best legal brains from around the world was an unmatched experience. It was also a unique cultural exchange with fellow peers.  The fact that GW professors are all experts in their fields, either as judges, renowned academics, or leading attorneys in reputed law schools, allowed them to pass on applied lessons grounded in real-world experiences.  This was one area which I really benefited from.

    In India, generally, we were taught what happened in a particular case where as in the US, we were taught why and how it happened in a particular case.  Basically, law schools in the US try to develop analytical thinking skills in students.  Attaining LL.Ms from Indian universities is not a popular choice amongst students, unless they want to get into academia whereas in the US, students opt for an LL.M if they want to specialize in a particular field.

     

    How did you decide on your courses?

    I had taken many core US law courses like US Securities law, corporations, and US federal tax, etc.  I wanted to gain as much exposure as I could on US laws.  I wanted to utilize my experiences and knowledge on US law as well as Indian law after my graduation from GW.  I particularly liked tax law because it was challenging, technical and was required for every corporate transaction.

     

    How did you win the scholarship?

    The Scholarship is awarded in the name of an International Court Justice, Thomas Beurgenthal (now retired).  It is awarded to foreign LL.M students in the form of full or partial tuition waiver on the basis of academic merit and financial need. To apply one has to submit his/her resume along with a 500 word letter to prove yourself worthy of a scholarship.  They also require a statement of purpose and letters of recommendation.

     

    What extra-curricular/co-curricular activities were you part of while at law school?

    Extracurricular activities are extremely important as it’s an opportunity to develop skills necessary to succeed as an attorney as well as an opportunity to enrich one’s resume, which is an important element when applying to LL.M programs. Some of the extra-curricular activities which I participated in include an essay competition titled “Women’s participation at the grassroots level”, in which our team was awarded the first prize of INR 50,000.  Further, I represented my law school in a client counselling competition, successfully completed numerous projects sponsored by the UN.  I also was an editor of the law review and headed the legal aid cell at law school.  Moreover, some of my articles were published in law firms’ archives and NGO yearbooks.   While pursuing my LL.M at GW, I was elected to be the President of the LL.M Student Association.

    In order to pursue an LL.M from a tier one law school, one needs to conduct proper planning.  Apart from grades, top universities look at your extracurricular activities.  Securing a scholarship from any university is never easy and one needs to have an exceptional resume.  Remember, it is not a matter of selection, but rather a matter of rejection. They reject all until they get their desired selected candidates.

     

    How big of a difference does an Ivy League institution make?

    Obviously Ivy League law schools are extremely prestigious and can open many doors. However, many people have this notion that getting an LL.M from an Ivy League guarantees you a job abroad, which is false.  Another misconception is that attending an Ivy League school will provide you with the best education available. However, one must take into account the specialization that they want to acquire.  For example, someone who wants to do an LL.M in Intellectual Property (IP) may choose Stanford or GW, which are not Ivy League schools but are better ranked in that specialization.

     

    Tell us about your experience working in the US.

    Apart from my internships, my work experience in India was limited to my time clerking for Justice Nijjar, which was a very demanding role. Similarly, in the US, I found that attorneys are also given demanding work which calls for long hours.  Generally speaking, I find the nature of work between US and India to be different.  In the US, attorneys have more client based exposure than in India, especially at the early stages of one’s career.  Also, in the US, attorneys are expected to draft all legal documents in a crisp and concise manner.  While this was important in India as well, it was less emphasized than in my positions in the US.

     

    What do you think about the future of international tax practice?

    Nowadays, it is very common to have corporate transactions involving multiple jurisdictions and corresponding tax implications.  Therefore, it is actually a boon for someone who is a qualified lawyer in multiple jurisdictions.  If you can interpret tax laws of multiple jurisdictions then you are an asset for any organization you work with.  However, it is a niche field where you need a plethora of experience to gain expertise.

    I would advise young lawyers to start with an internship and to ascertain whether you are a good fit or not.  I believe a couple of law firms in India have a good international law practice.  Keeping an eye on international transactions through journals is also a good way to keep yourself updated.  You can also go for higher studies if you want to practise globally.

     

    Would you like to leave a final message for all our anxious student readers?

    Do not stress out, law school is challenging but fun. Internships will be important to gain practical knowledge and to ascertain what kind of law you would like to practice after graduation.  Apart from aiming for good grades, participate in extracurricular activities and give back to society in any capacity, for eg. pro-bono work.  Remember, a lawyer never stops learning until he/she retires.  Lastly, do not forget to make memories.  Cheers!

     

     

  • Sahil Yadav, Associate, Ladas and Parry, on IP Law, the New York Bar and working in the US

    Sahil Yadav, Associate, Ladas and Parry, on IP Law, the New York Bar and working in the US

    Sahil Yadav is a graduate in law from Symbiosis Law School, Pune, batch of 2010. After successful stints with Ranjan Narula Associates, IP Gurus, and Sujata Chaudhri IP Attorneys,  he went on to pursue his Master’s degree in Law, Science and Technology. He is an intellectual property lawyer with over five years of experience in trademark and copyright law in India. Since August, 2016, he has also been working with an intellectual property boutique law firm in New York. He is currently Associate at Ladas and Parry, LPP.

    In this interview we speak to him about:

    • Finding his passion in IP Law
    • Clearing the New York Bar, getting a work permit and working in the US
    • The importance of writing consistently

    Kindly tell us something about your school and college days.

    I was schooled at Delhi Public School, R.K. Puram and I pursued the commerce stream although I was always passionate about computing and technology. At Symbiosis Law School, when I first started, I honestly wasn’t sure what kind of a lawyer I wanted to be. That indecisiveness led me to explore internships with various firms to see what piqued my interested. The turning point in my life was an internship at Anand and Anand in my second year of law school as I grew an instant connection with trademark and copyright law there. I never looked back and continued gaining more experience at IP law firms and I would say that was the most important aspect of my law school life.

     

    Tell us something about your summer school experience in University of New Hampshire Law School (formerly Franklin Pierce Law Center).

    The summer school at Franklin Pierce Law Center was a great experience. I applied for the one month program when I was in the fourth year of law school because by that time I had decided that I want a career in intellectual property law. For information, it is possible to apply for the course on the University of New Hampshire’s website by filling an application, preparing a statement of motivation and submitting your transcripts. It is quite competitive because it only lets in, on an average, around 30 students every year.

    The summer school was very flexible and I could complete up to three courses of my liking in over a month. It helped me get a taste of western education and learn about intellectual property laws around the world. At the time, my law school did not have any international and comparative courses on intellectual property law and I believe taking such courses at the summer school definitely gave me a competitive edge in terms of having a basic idea of international laws.

    Apart from the actual studying, the summer school is always great to make connections and networks even before your career has started. A testament to that is the fact that I went on to be hired by an alumni of Franklin Pierce Law Center and later by one of the adjunct professors at the summer school!

     

    What according to you should be an indicator in deciding one’s area of practice post-graduation?

    Based on my personal experiences, I would recommend law students today to intern as much as they can in different types of practices. Law school in India is very different from actual practice and if one tries gaining practical experiences in different settings, one is bound to stumble upon that eureka moment when one knows where their passion lies.

    Having said that, while passion is definitely the most important factor, I would also recommend law students to speak as much as they can to alumni to gauge which areas of practice are hot and which are not. The popularity and earning potential in practice areas varies over the years so as a law student, you want to be sure you’re getting into something that would not only fuel your passion but also match your financial and growth based objectives.

     

    Can you tell us about your internship experience?

    Internships have had an integral role to play in my career. I can’t stress enough how important they are. At the outset, it helped me in honing in on the area of law I was passionate for. Additionally, because I had completed sixteen internships by the time I graduated, I felt I was up to speed with the practical aspects when I started my first job after law school. I felt that my learning curve was more inclined and I was able to excel at what I did initially. I had varied experiences with different law firms. While some were outstanding, some, not so much. The internship programs at some law firms are frustrating as they only entail clerical work which does not aid in enhancing learning while at others you get to work almost at the level of an associate. It is important for law students to research on internship programs at various law firms and read reviews posted by fellow students online before committing to an internship so that it can meet their expectations.

     

    When did you know that you wanted to pursue IP Law?

    To be honest, up until my second year I was still not very certain of which area of law captured my imagination. This was until my first internship at an IP boutique law firm. I remember working on a trademark case involving the Power Rangers, a Disney property. Being a childhood Power Rangers fan, the idea of protecting the brand from counterfeit merchandise was very exciting. It also made me realize that I have a marketing bent and from then on, I focused on trademark law. This just goes to show that the moment you decide which area of law you want to focus on can sneak up on you without you knowing or planning for it!

     

    Do you think that it is important for law students to intern at various law firms in various fields of law?

    This is not a very complicated question to answer. In an ideal world, I would advise law students to experiment as much as they can to dabble in as many different areas of law as possible in the first two year of law school. Hopefully by then, you will have zeroed in on the area of law you want to specialize in. Once you have that, it makes a lot of sense to focus on that practice area and spend the last two years of your law school in an attempt to gain as much practical experience as possible. As someone who has sat in on interviews to hire freshers right out of law school for an IP boutique that I worked for, I can tell you that it is very comforting to see on a CV that the candidate has focused on IP in his or her final few years of law school. The legal environment nowadays is competitive and you need practical experience to gain an edge in the hiring process. Another important pointer for law students is not to go for big names when it comes to internships and focus on workplaces where they will be able to obtain actual practical knowledge. IP as a fraternity in India is a small one and I can say with confidence that firms look for practical experience more than big names on your CV.

     

    Please share with our readers your experience of working at various IPR boutique firms.

    I started my career with IP Gurus, a small sized IP boutique which was eventually acquired by Anand and Anand. This stint holds a dear place in my heart. I had just graduated from law school and after months of struggle, I was hired by the firm on a retainer of INR 16,000 a month. I was unhappy with the remuneration I was being offered and felt like I had been a failure. All that quickly evaporated as I was thrown into the deep end. Three months into my career, I was asked to prepare the first lawsuit on protection of a trade dress in product configuration. The firm was only five people strong and the one year at IP Gurus exposed me to so much in terms of practical experience, I had a new found confidence in my abilities.

    I then moved to Ranjan Narula Associates which is a bigger law firm. This meant that although I handled a lot of matters, life was easier and the hours were more manageable. After a whirlwind of late nights and working weekends in IP Gurus, I thought this was what I wanted. But I quickly realized that I thrive in a more fast-paced environment.

    I moved back to IP Gurus when I heard that an ex-professor from the United States had moved back to India to head IP Gurus. I was given more responsibility and managed the trademark contentious team at the firm. The long hours were back and I couldn’t be happier feeling valued in the organization.

    I eventually moved with my ex-professor to set up her law firm, Sujat Chaudhri IP Attorneys, when IP Gurus was acquired by Anand and Anand. I had similar roles and responsibilities at the new firm but I was part of the process of setting up an entirely new law firm which was exciting and an experience not a lot of people can get at a young age. From choosing office space to deciding what IT systems and docketing software to use to build clients, I learnt how to do it all. After over a year of working with SCIP, I decided to head abroad for my masters degree.

     

    You have worked on the landmark case dealing with the protection of product configuration of the Rubik’s Cube. How would you describe your experience working on it?

    The landmark judgment in this case was recently delivered by the Delhi High Court, six years after I had drafted and filed the suit as a 21-years old right out of law school! It was partially in our favour so I’m excited for my ex-firm!

    It was the experience that defined my career as a lawyer, honestly. As previously mentioned, I was only three months into my career hoping to learn more basic things like trademark filings when I was entrusted with this matter because the only senior associate handling litigation had left without notice. It was my own little sink-or-swim moment. The matter was complicated as it was the first of its kind in India and there were no precedents or authorities to guide me under the Indian law.

    This was an opportunity for me to research on trade dress laws of many different countries to find precedents to support our positions. I had taken international comparative trademark law classes as part of a summer school in the US but this research was still the toughest thing I had ever done. In law school, all our legal research had been limited to Indian case law and this got me out of my comfort zone. It also exposed me to briefing senior counsel at a very young age and all of these experiences combined shaped my career.

     

    What prompted you to pursue post-graduation?

    IP Law and technology are more connected than people think! I always had a passion for technology. I completed a course in C++ as a twelve year old boy outside of school! I chose law, science and technology as my area for a post-graduation as I knew that the course would allow me to hone my already-existing skills in IP law and learn new skills in other upcoming technology law related areas. With the world moving towards artificial intelligence and big data, it is important for IP lawyers to keep abreast of this seismic shift. The course gave me exactly what I needed. I was able to take courses in my core strengths such as trademark and copyright allow. In addition, I also got to learn about very current and hot issues such as artificial intelligence, big data, net neutrality, internet of things, autonomous vehicles, etc.

     

    Is it true that one needs a Master’s degree, preferably from a foreign university, to land a job?

    I wouldn’t say a graduate degree is not enough to land a job in India. Based on personal experiences, I would urge law students to work for a few years before they make plans to study further and gain a masters’ degree. Once you’ve been in practice for a few years, you learn your strengths and weaknesses and know what you want to focus on. If you’re in that kind of a situation, a masters’ degree can be much more beneficial as you go into it with clear goals. If you go for a masters’ degree right after graduation, you’re bound to waste a lot of time dabbling in different things during your masters’ degree to find your niche or identify your goals. That is not what a masters’ degree is for. I don’t think a masters’ degree without any practical experience is that lucrative in India for employers. On the other hand, solid practical experience with a masters’ degree focused on your area of expertise can do wonders for your marketability.

     

    As an experienced lawyer in the field of IPR law in India, do you think that this field will expand/grow in the near future?

    Yes, of course. IP law in India is growing at an exponential rate! When I started working seven years ago, I always felt that Indian companies do not invest in IP as much as foreign companies do. While it is still true, the gap is narrowing. Indian companies are realizing the worth and important of IP to their business and this coupled with a concerted push by the government to make securing IP rights in India easier under the new National IPR Policy, makes me confident that IP in India will continue to grow and become more important in the next five years.

    In terms of the job market, I feel it has become very competitive and crowded. The supply of IP professionals far outweighs the demand. If law students choose this path, they could find themselves battling against a rough start. But as soon as they have some experience, they will find that the profession is very rewarding with multiple opportunities available.

    Practical experience is the single most important factor in landing a job in an IP boutique law firm. I would urge law students to intern with as many IP firms as they can.

    Additionally, I would advise that they look to take additional IP related courses outside their law school. This demonstrates a candidate’s commitment to IP law. The course offered by the World Intellectual Property Organization is an excellent example. They are inexpensive and can be completed from home.

    Tell us about the scholarship you secured at Stanford.

    (While pursuing his Masters at Stanford Law School Sahil participated at INTA’s Annual Saul Lefkowitz Memorial Moot Court Competition and won the annual INTA student scholarship.)

    I represented Stanford Law School at INTA’s Annual Saul Lefkowitz Memorial Moot Court Competition. What’s special about this competition is that it is the only moot court competition which solely focuses on trademark law. I encourage any law student who comes to the US to pursue a masters’ degree to participate in this event. Considering that you will be one of very few Indians in the competition, it is a nice way to pit yourselves against American law students on American trademark law. It gives you a taste of practicing trademark law in the United States and also tells you whether you are in shape to handle it.

    I did also win the annual INTA student scholarship as part of which I was flown to Orlando to attend INTA’s annual meeting. Before going into the scholarship program, I urge all law students interested in IP law to purchase a student membership to INTA. It is very inexpensive and opens up a lot of doors in terms of learning and networking opportunities. As for the scholarship, it is open to INTA student members and it is a brilliant way to get to attend the annual meeting which is usually out of reach of law students because it is held mostly outside India. The scholarship gave me a great opportunity to learn and network and also made me more marketable. As someone who has managed hiring, I can tell you that scholarships such as these on a candidate’s CV demonstrate a strong interest in IP law which is very desirable for a recruiter.

    Tell us about your experience working in the US.

    (Sahil passed the New York Bar Exam in July, 2016, and is currently working for Ladas and Larry, LLP.)

    The New York Bar Exam was the hardest thing I’ve ever done in my life. I don’t know what the difficulty level of the Indian Bar Exam is currently, but based on my experience of taking the Indian bar in 2010 and the New York bar in 2016, I can safely say that the New York bar is much tougher to clear. Although this can be a daunting thought, the flipside is that the more difficult an exam is to pass, the more prestigious it is and the more rewards it brings.

    The big difference between the Indian Bar Exam and the New York Bar exam apart from the difficulty level is the fact that the Indian Bar Exam only has objective type questions while the New York Bar Exam has objective type questions in addition to essay questions and practical exercises.

    My advice to law students planning to take the bar exam would be to start very early. You can start playing with the materials and acquainting yourselves with the forma, etc. even one year before you are scheduled to take the bar. Further, I would advise that law students take one of the bar review courses offered by BARBRI, Kaplan or Themis and start studying part-time four to five months in advance with the last two months being full-time study.

    I feel that Indian law students have an advantage with the New York bar exam. A lot of Americans struggle with the bar exam because law schools in the US do not focus on memorization and all of a sudden, when the bar exam comes around, they have to memorize astonishing volumes of material. We, on the other hand, have grown up memorizing material all throughout school and law school. Although this may be identified as a weakness in the Indian legal education system, it works in our favor in this specific context.

    Working in the United States is very different. There are fewer procedural inefficiencies in the legal system which allows lawyers to spend more time lawyering and less time dealing with government offices and courts to get things done. It is a refreshing change and one I’m enjoying. It is also much more financially rewarding compared to working in this field in India. Also, working in India in the IP field largely entails working on Indian law. Working in an international law firm exposes you to matters in jurisdictions around the world. In the short time I’ve been here, I have already handled matters in more than twenty different countries!

     

    Tell us about your interest in blogging.

    (Sahil has contributed to the World Trade Mark Review and is the co-editor of IP blog ipslate.com.)

    Blogging is a habit I inculcated very early on in my career. There was no specific moment that spurred me to do it. It was just me following valuable advice of more-experienced lawyers.

    Blogging serves three purposes for law students. First, in order to blog regularly, you research on current events and keep yourself abreast of all of the latest developments. Second, by writing more articles you make sure that you are constantly evolving your writing skills which is an integral part of being an IP lawyer. Finally, your blogs gaining visibility increases your marketability.

    What advice do you want to give to students and freshers who are planning to visit US for pursuing their Masters program?

    Obtaining a work visa in the United States is an uphill battle. A lot of law students come to the United States to become US qualified attorneys and work here only to get a rude shock when they put in all the effort and money to complete a master’s degree and pass the New York bar to find out they can’t stay in the country.

    My advice to law students would be to comprehensively research on the probability and possibility of obtaining a visa in the United States before deciding to come to the United States for a masters’ degree if they are interested in working here. You should walk into it with open eyes! Also, the key thing to obtain a job and a visa here is to start to work towards it early in your masters’ degree and network as much as you can in addition to exploiting the usual channels such as job postings, careers services office of your law school, etc.  Eventually, even if you manage to overcome all of these obstacles, whether you get a visa or not is still dependent on a random pick of the lottery so one should always be open to exploring other countries and not have all their eggs in one basket.

     

    Where do you want to see yourself ten years from now?

    I have modest goals! I want to see myself happy and doing what I love ten years from now.

     

    What final piece of advice do you want to pass on to law school aspirants, law students and freshers?

    I just want to take this opportunity to tell all of the law school aspirants out there that you have chosen a very well-respected field. With globalization set to affect the Indian legal industry in the next few years, it is an exciting time to be a lawyer in India. Don’t be afraid to think big, work hard, get as much exposure as you can and you will all eventually achieve what you set out to. If someone would have told me I would be a US-qualified lawyer living my dream when I had passed out from law school and started working for INR 16,000 per month, I wouldn’t have believed them! Anything is possible. If you need any guidance related to IP law as a career or becoming a US-qualified attorney, please feel free to reach out at sahily@alumni.stanford.edu and I will be happy to help.

     

  • Abhijit Mittal, Co-founder, ADAZ Law Chambers, on starting independent practice, being a first generation lawyer and his experience in litigation

    Abhijit Mittal, Co-founder, ADAZ Law Chambers, on starting independent practice, being a first generation lawyer and his experience in litigation

    Abhijit Mittal is a graduate from Symbiosis Law School, Pune, batch of 2011. Post Law School, he worked with Mr. Sanjay Jain, Senior Advocate, who is now the Additional Solicitor General of India at the Delhi High Court. Thereafter, he worked at  MNK Law Offices under the guidance of Ms. Anuradha Mukherjee and Mr. Gyanendra Kumar.  After his stint with Mr. Jain and MNK, he decided to take the plunge and start an independent practice, which is when he co-founded ADAZ Law Chambers with his long-time friend and now partner, Mr. Dhruv Rohatgi.

    In this interview we speak to him about:

     

    • Striking a balance between academics and extracurricular interests
    • His diverse and prolific internship experience
    • Starting his independent practice

     

    Kindly tell us something about your college days.

    I pursued the five year BBA LL.B programme where in addition to law subjects (Corporate laws, Civil Laws, Criminal Laws, Procedural Laws, etc.), we were also taught subjects like Business environment & Ethical Practices, Strategic Management and Human Resource Management. While the above management subjects were taught for the first two to three years, the law subjects took the forefront in the fourth and fifth year of the programme. Symbiosis Law School is a fine institution that emphasizes not just on the theoretical aspect of law, but also on the practical aspects of it. It offers various co-curricular and extracurricular activities and I was fortunate enough to be a part of many such activities, which I thoroughly enjoyed. The legal aid, clinical legal and research cells are examples of such cells from where I learnt how to extend help to those who could not afford proper legal aid.  The various initiatives taken by my college not only provided me with the opportunity to showcase my talent, but have also, to a great extent, helped shape my future in the profession. In addition to studies and co-curricular, extra-curricular activities are also given their due. During my college days, I managed my time in a way that I could participate in various sporting events. In fact, I was a part of the college cricket and football team and I represented my college in various inter college tournaments and competitions.   Apart from the life in and around law school, Pune has a lot to offer. Since there are a lot of colleges in and around the city, Pune never seemed dull and was vibrant all day. In my opinion it is one of the best cities in India to enjoy your college life as it strikes the right balance between life inside and outside of a college. After all, there is a reason why Pune is also referred to as Oxford of the east.

     

    How important do you think CGPA is in shaping a lawyer’s career, especially as a litigator?

    While I was in college, we did not have the CGPA system. We only had a set of external exams every semester and there was no concept of compulsory internships or assignments to be undertaken. Our batch was the last batch that passed out from Symbiosis Law School without the CGPA system. However, over the years, I have discussed the CGPA system with a couple of my juniors and interns and upon my interaction with them, I have gathered that CGPA is a good concept. This is because CGPA keeps the learner engrossed throughout five years and emphasizes on practical knowledge that is going beyond the textbooks and instils the habit preparing presentations, research papers and undertake compulsory internships amongst others. Thus, in my opinion, the CGPA approach enables the learner to get a better approach towards the profession, empowers one to think out of the box, prepare the students to step out of their comfort zone in the initial years and gain more practical knowledge alongside theoretical knowledge, which would definitely be a boon in shaping ones career not only as a litigator but otherwise as well.

     

    What do you think matters more; in-depth study or studying to perform well at exams?

    I believe it’s a mix of both.  Aiming to excel at exams would ensure that the learner passes with favorable grades and qualifies for placements and/or further studies. However, anybody who wants to sustain and excel in his/her professional career, will require an in-depth knowledge of the subject. This is where I believe the CGPA system comes into the picture and plays an important role in shaping one’s career.

     

    How important do you think co-curricular or extracurricular activities are in shaping an individual’s career?

    (Abhijit has represented his college in various cricket tournaments.)

    I have been a sports enthusiast all my life. I was a member of the football and cricket teams in school.  Even in college, I was a member of the cricket team which won various laurels for the college at different levels. I believe that being a part of any extra-curricular activity or co-curricular activity plays a very important role in imbibing certain lessons of life in an individual which a textbook simply can’t teach. It teaches an individual how to work in a team cohesively, to handle tough situations which builds in temperament and the ability to manage different things at one time, thereby improving the ability of an individual to multitask and manage time.  Being involved in sports ensures that these facets seamlessly blend into ones character and these are some characteristics which are necessary irrespective of the fact whether you are an independent litigator or working with a firm or in-house.

     

    When did the litigation bug bit you?

    I took up law as a career only because I wanted to be a litigator. I’ve known that I have been cut out for litigation since the time I decided to pursue law as a career. I have always been a very outgoing person and have never shied away from public speaking or conversing with people on any topic.  Which is why my father always told me that law as a profession would probably be ideal for me. Therefore, for me litigation was never just an option but the only choice.

    I believe that a litigator must possess what I call the ‘three Ps’, i.e. poise, perseverance and patience. These three qualities, along with dedication and diligence would make one a well-equipped and successful litigator.

     

    Please tell us about your internship experience?

    (Abhijit has undertaken as many as ten internships during his time at law school, a feat very few students have managed to accomplish.)

    As a student, I always looked forward to semester breaks as I was always very enthusiastic about interning and getting to know what practicing law is really like. This is why I always tried to make optimum utilization of each and every break.  Working as an intern not only helped me get an insight into the practical aspects of law, but also helped me get in touch with and socialize with many of my seniors in the profession, which I always believed would be of great help and assistance and it indeed was.

    I had the privilege of working under Mr. Sanjay Jain, Senior Advocate, very early in my career.  Thanks to his guidance, I was able to steer myself well in the profession.  My first three internships were under him and he took a keen interest in teaching me how to conduct myself in meetings and how to proceed with a case once you open the file. Thereafter, I interned in trial courts which was a totally different ball game altogether. My trial court experience taught me the importance of a trial in a proceeding. The entire stage of conducting evidence and cross examination strengthened my will to become a litigator.

    In the last two years of my college, when we were introduced to IPR as a subject, I developed interest in the subject and since I had already had my share of interning at the High Court and trial courts, I wanted to experience what it was like to do an internship at a firm. Since I had never worked at a firm before, I wanted to intern for the sake of understanding how a firm works and what it takes to be law firm lawyer. Also, during my interactions with briefing counsels in Mr. Jain’s office, I gauged that law firms usually prefer interns from senior batches and that is when they are given good work, taken seriously and evaluated properly.  Hence, it is in my final year that I decided to do two internships with Anand and Anand and K&S.  My internships at these firms taught me to be disciplined in my approach and also taught me why it is important to have a regimented approach.

    My varied internship experience was of great help.  In fact, since I was so used to the environment at the high court and trial courts in Delhi, that by the end of five years when I finally joined as a lawyer, I found it very easy to blend into the space which I created over my five years of internship and I did not feel like just another fish in a new pond.

     

    How will you describe your experience of working as junior lawyer under Senior Advocate Sanjay Jain and as an associate at MNK Law Offices, New Delhi?

    (Mr. Sanjay Jain is currently the Additional Solicitor General, Delhi High Court.)

    My experience at both the places has been wonderful and enriching, to the say the least.  I started my career working under Mr. Sanjay Jain, Sr. Advocate.  His office is very different. He as a boss ensured that all his juniors were up to date with the files. As a matter of principle, the files were called from the briefing advocates a day in advance and the juniors were asked to prepare case notes and do their own research on the issues involved. Another benefit that I derived by working under a senior advocate was that it did not restrict me to a specific field of law but exposed me to several areas of law, very early in my career. The only drawback was that of not having the opportunity to argue in courts, which is why, after extremely enriching initial years with Mr Jain, I moved to MNK law Offices.   After Mr. Jain as a mentor and guide, I consider myself lucky to be nurtured by Ms. Anuradha Mukherjee and Mr. Gyanendra Kumar.  At MNK, I was entrusted with a lot of varied drafting work and was also given the opportunity to argue matters in courts and tribunals. It is at MNK that I learnt the very vital tact of dealing with clients personally, which in my opinion, is of prime importance. It helped oil my engines well in court and provided me with all that I was looking for.  MNK provided me with a lot of intellectual freedom and my seniors had a lot of belief in me, which was a great confidence booster. Working under Mr. Jain and then MNK built the right platform to launch myself independently and if given another chance I would not have it any other way.

     

    You have also been part of many government panels as legal counsel. Kindly tell us about your work profile and experience there.

    After starting my own firm, I was fortunate enough to be a part of a few government panels in the Delhi High Court such as NDMC, AIIMS, Union of India, to name a few. Being part of government panel is not an easy task.  As a matter of practice, the matters reach you around evening and in most cases the matters are listed the very next day.  One has to study the file through the evening and prepare for hearing the next day. What is interesting and challenging at the same time is that you would be in court the whole day and not know what is going to hit you, when you finally get a call from the respective panel litigation section in the evening. Having panel work keeps one on their toes constantly but it also provides an opportunity to learn about a new subject, new statute and a new branch of law on a daily basis. Furthermore, on numerous occasions, there is an MNC or a business conglomerate on the opposite side challenging one or the other actions/notifications of the government and it is not uncommon for them to engage the best senior counsels in the country. Being pitted right opposite these counsels is in itself a thrilling and challenging proposition. Therefore, I believe that being on a Government Panel brings out the best in a lawyer.

     

    How much importance did you give to the suggestions offered by peers and seniors?

    I am of the opinion that in this profession it is very important to be guided by the expertise and experience of your seniors and as stated above, I have been fortunate enough to have that kind of guidance and support from my seniors.  Since this profession is very vast, entailing many intricate procedures to be followed and these procedures changing with the drop of a hat, the suggestions and guidance of not only your seniors but your peers are of great significance. Having said that, I also feel that one should always evaluate the suggestions and/or opinions before blindly following them and also rely on one’s gut every now and then.

    What prompted you to start a law firm of your own?

    (Abhijit’s law firm ADAZ Law firm was nominated at the IDEX Legal Awards in the category of best startup law firm of the year 2015-2016)

    I got into this profession with the vision of being an independent practitioner one day. After having gathered experience of both, a senior counsel office and a law firm, I realized that given the vastness of this profession and the numerous forums to be covered, in today’s time, it is extremely tough to have an independent practice, especially if you are a first generation lawyer. I also gathered from my initial practice years that the client (whether an MNC or medium to small business setups) is looking for a one stop shop, for all  sorts of legal queries.  Accordingly, I decided to establish a firm setup, which would serve both the purposes, i.e. being independent and at the same time would be worthwhile of teaming up with like-minded professionals enabling us to scale our practice areas.  Accordingly, I teamed with Mr. Dhruv Rohatgi, who brings varied set of skills on the table, enabling the both of us to work in tandem.

    Thereafter, in just eight months since its inception, we were nominated for the best startup law firm in India by IDEX legal awards, 2015-16. Even though we did not win the award, it made us believe that we are on the right track and if keep moving ahead, we would definitely be able to carve a niche for ourselves in this profession.

     

    How will you describe your experience working for the firm you have co-founded?

    The experience of having your own setup is a mixed bag of emotions. It is sometimes exciting, challenging, rewarding and can sometimes get demoralizing too. Each day brings with it a new opportunity and a new challenge. However, slowly and steadily, we have been successful in providing quality output to our clients and with almost a year and a half into the game, we have become wiser in our decision making and seem to be heading in the right direction.  As of now, we have a simple plan to stay focused, consolidate and strengthen our existing core practice areas which is dispute resolution (litigation & arbitration). We do, however, intend to widen our scope and venture into the corporate space in the coming months.

     

    How will you describe your journey from being a law student/legal intern to an associate to the owner of the firm?

    Well, after having spent more than five years in this profession I have realized that even though it is not an easy task to make your mark in this profession, especially as a first generation lawyer, however, it is not impossible to do so. I believe that even if one is a first generation lawyer, it is very important to be determined and focused from the beginning of law school and have able guidance and support from your seniors and your family. I was fortunate enough to have able support and guidance from not only my family but also my seniors Mr. Jain, Ms. Mukherjee and Mr. Kumar, who believed in me, at all times. I also strongly feel that if one keeps a professional approach and is determined to make it somewhere, this profession has enough space for everyone, provided one is extremely focused and has the hunger to grab on every opportunity one gets.

    My journey from a law student to an associate to a co-owner of the firm has nothing been less than a roller coaster ride, it has been interesting and challenging at the same time and continues to be.

    What does it take to start a law firm?

    I am of the opinion that for starting any kind of business, whether it is a law firm or anything else, having the drive and passion to do what you want and to believe in yourself is of prime importance.  Furthermore, it is very important to have the ability to understand and be prepared for the fact that there are going be failures at some stage or the other (lots of them probably).  The key is to not get bogged down by such failures, but to get up and fight it out.

    It is an established fact that a professional’s life is mostly busy and also that’s the way it should be. However, at the same time it is imperative to strike the right balance between one’s personal and professional life.  Come what may, I make sure that I hit the gym whenever possible and on weekends, I ensure that I play cricket as well as soccer, but never at the cost of work.

     

    What final piece of advice do you want to pass on to our readers?

    Well, just to keep it straight and simple, I would like to quote Bob Dylan and this is something, I always tell our juniors and interns, “What’s money? A man is a success if he gets up in the morning and goes to bed at night and in between does what he wants to do.”
    I feel that this encapsulates everything.  Of course, money is important and the fuel of life. But if an individual does what he or she wants to, he or she will do it to the best of their ability and eventually get the due recognition and reward for it, in whichever form it may be.