Super Lawyer

Author: Editor

  • Sandeep Parekh, Founder-Managing Partner, Finsec Law Advisors, on Securities, working with Harish Salve, and academia

    Sandeep Parekh, Founder-Managing Partner, Finsec Law Advisors, on Securities, working with Harish Salve, and academia

    Sandeep Parekh graduated in law from Delhi University in 1995. He then went on to pursue his Masters in Securities and Financial Regulation in 1997. Since then, he has served as International Associate at Wilmer, Cutler & Pickering, Associate Advocate at Wadia Ghandy & Co., Partner, Securities and Financial Practice Group at P.H. Parekh & Co., and Executive Director at SEBI. He is also visiting faculty at IIM-A. He is currently Founder cum Managing Partner at Finsec Law Advisors.

    In this interview we speak to him about:

    • Starting his own firm
    • His experience in Securities Law
    • His passion for teaching

    How would you like to introduce yourself to our readers?

    I would introduce myself as a securities lawyer who specialised early in my life. My advice to students has always been to focus on education and build a strong foundation, rather than building on experience early in life. You literally have a lifetime to build on experience. But there is limited time for foundational study and really deep research. As a professional there is little time available for doing either and the foundation of basic legal building blocks and deeper research stay with you for a lifetime. Finally, the early work helps in daily work. If one were to tell a client that you don’t know what a contingent contract is, but will look it up, you are unlikely to win the client’s confidence. The advice is even more important for people who turn specialists, as later exposure to constitutional, contract, transfer of property and other basic laws becomes limited.

     

    Is there any specific anecdote that means a lot to you, which you would like to share with our readers?

    My law school days in DU were intense. I was working nearly full time with Mr. Harish Salve from the day I joined law school. I would start the day early, to be in time for a little research before the first conference would start at 8 AM. I am certain I was of little or no use to Mr. Salve for a long period of time, but I learned a lot reading cases for Monday and Friday SLP days at the Supreme Court. There was a lot of fundamental research we did at his chambers and we relied on the best books on the subject. This ensured that even in law school I always relied on quality primary, secondary and tertiary sources of information, rather than the shortcuts available to pass exams. Our law school, popularly known as LC-II was an evening course of Delhi University, though as a full time course it had the same contact hours as the day course and classes were taken seriously by both faculty and students. What was unusual was the class age. It was close to 40. Many mid to senior level bureaucrats and police officers were part of the class.

    A fun anecdote relates to a case where Mr. Salve had a prior commitment, but another case went on longer than expected. The briefing lawyer was not ready with the matter as his junior who was familiar with the matter was also stuck in another court. As it happened, I had made detailed notes on the content and research and I fed the advocate the argument virtually line by line. It was intimidating as I was not supposed to sit on the front seats with my black student tie, rather than a gown and a band. But the high was that we won that trademark case and the ruling was even covered in the papers a few days later.

     

    What were the activities, academic or otherwise, that you undertook in your law school days which in your opinion have shaped you and your career?

    The nature of the school meant that the only other activity I did outside of coursework, which I attended to religiously, was moot courts. I was competent primarily because I was doing this in real life ten hours a day seven days a week. Researching, drafting and of course observing the best counsels of the country argue before the highest court of India. I would sometimes spend a few hours on weekends rock climbing before or after work at an Indian Mountaineering Foundation site in Dhaula Kuan, close to Mr. Salve’s office.

     

    Who was your mentor, or main source of inspiration who motivated you all along the way?

    I have had three mentors, one I described above, Mr. Salve. The other was Mr. Arthur Mathews, who was a partner at Wilmer, Cutler and Pickering and taught me a course at Georgetown law. He was also responsible for getting me a position at his firm as an international attorney and then even though I didn’t work with him at Wilmer, he treated me as family and took me out for a baseball game with his family. The last was of course Mr. Damodaran of SEBI, who took me in at a senior position at SEBI at a young age and mentored me. He continues to be a source of support to me and is a great sounding board as well. I must also mention my partner at Wilmer, Brandon Becker, who was a former director at the SEC and a force to reckon with in market regulations. My partner at Wadia Ghandy, Nihar Mody, was also a great person to learn from.

     

    Would you say higher studies are relevant for a career in law?

    This is a tricky question and I assume the answer would differ from person to person. The main reason for me undertaking this particular course was the specialised learning I would get. My LL.M. was in securities and financial regulations and I practically didn’t attend any non-securities course. The other major reason why people undertake an LL.M. is job opportunities. This is true both in India and abroad. So I would say, to each his own, if a degree opens up educational avenues not otherwise available, one should pursue higher studies. Similarly, if a degree opens jobs, one should use it to open that market, though both domestically and internationally, it has limited use for that purpose. Often it is both reasons. The advantage of a foreign education is that it opens global doors to both education and to jobs, though is quite expensive by comparison.

     

    What does the CV of a student seeking admission in a premier university offering an LL.M. program have to look like?

    I was a part of the admissions committee at Georgetown Law and thus got substantial exposure to this, having reviewed hundreds of applications. The criteria run into objective and subjective ones. In the objective ones are grades, publications and any public positions held at the college or law college. Subjective ones are those which can easily be padded and inflated and are therefore of a lesser value in an international evaluator’s mind. But a skilled student would back it up with evidence and make this also a strong suite. Say a passion for right to information backed by papers and actual usage for public good would help a student’s cause immensely. Usually some inflation of your background is tolerated, but lying is not. To say you topped the university when you did not, would pollute the believability of the rest of your application.

    An LL.M. abroad would be best after at least a year or two of practice because many areas of procedure and evidence which are best understood in court or in corporate practice make LL.M. courses easier to grasp. Experience is also very useful in case you choose to appear for the New York or California bars.

     

    What was the experience of working with Mr. Harish Salve like?

    I think Harish Salve is just an incredible force of nature in terms of intellectual firepower. His brilliance is matched by his hard work, I recall he would wake up around 5  5:30 AM and read and research thoroughly before a conference. As a result many of his conferences lasted seconds rather than minutes or hours. He urged me to read Seervai and Palkhivala from cover to cover and often course corrected me when I went off course.

    Can you tell us about your tryst with academia?

    I have been teaching at IIM-A for the past sixteen years as a visiting faculty and have tremendously enjoyed teaching all these years. After SEBI, I had joined as a full time faculty because of my rather sensitive job at SEBI as head of legal affairs and enforcement. The chance of conflict was very high if I had started practicing immediately after my regulatory role and there was also a chance of inadvertent conflict since my signature would be on thousands of files. At IIM-A however, I did many interesting consulting tasks like being a plaintiff’s lawyer at New York courts in the infamous Satyam matter.

    What or who motivated you to take the leap of faith and start Finsec Law Advisors?

    There seemed few good options in terms of a professional set up in top Indian law firms with the legacy issues which we are all aware of. Instead of joining a mid-tier firm, I thought of starting a small, high quality top tier law firm. We continue to have a quality focus and have no growth plans or plans to diversify into other areas. We dominate the securities regulatory domain and would like to believe we have no competitors in the field in which we operate. We believe in spending a quarter of our time on public policy and intellectual pursuits. Our firm has three books to its credit in the past few years, we run newsletters, monthly dialogue series, an annual roundtable, we routinely respond to regulatory comment papers. Our advice has been sought formally and informally by several regulators and parliamentary committees. I sit on most industry committees relating to financial markets viz. CII, Ficci, Assocham BCCI, IMC etc. These pursuits make our task interesting and worthwhile. Work without a purpose becomes uninteresting after a few years. What we don’t do is lobbying for clients and what we respond to is based on our consistent belief in a better regulatory environment for the country. There is indeed substantial regulatory cholesterol which needs to be reduced. Knowing it exists is the first step in addressing it.

     

    Where do you see yourself ten years from now?

    We don’t have growth targets, we do expect to maintain the same quality as we currently have. We would like to expand into other areas of financial regulatory work where we currently don’t operate. However, we never expect to become a full service law firm as we would rather be the best in what we do instead of being above average in many areas. Interestingly, we are referred a large part of our work from other law firms and also the big four accounting firms.

     

    What is your message to our readers?

    Focus on your education, build your foundation, rely on the best commentary on any subject (including my book!) and read it cover to cover where foundational. You will never have that luxury when you start practicing. Lot of your success will be a result of pure luck, of standing at the right place at the right time. But if you aren’t prepared when the good wind blows, you can’t blame ill luck later. So prepare to let the wind push your back and stand in ready position on the concourse. Work hard in the first two decades of your career and take a path less beaten, even if it is not the most lucrative financially. If work is work, then you will not last long in your current job. Make it fun, fulfilling and bring a purpose to improve the world in whatever small way possible.

     

  • Sakshi Raut, Legal Manager, DSK Legal, on her internships, corporate law, and her experience thus far

    Sakshi Raut, Legal Manager, DSK Legal, on her internships, corporate law, and her experience thus far

    Sakshi graduated from Symbiosis Law School, Pune in 2010. She joined DSK Legal, Mumbai, right after law school and has been working there for the past seven years. Her primary focus currently is on corporate law which includes corporate transactions, corporate advisory and commercial contracts.

    In this interview we speak to her about:

    • Her time at Symbiosis
    • Her internship experience
    • Her role at DSK Legal

     

    How would you like to introduce yourself to our readers?

    Independent of my work, on a personal level, I am a person who loves to travel and explore various aspects of a culture.

    When did you decide to make a career in the world of law?

    I was the first lawyer from my family in the recent generations. Initially my father would always encourage me to pursue Economics. However, post high school, I nearly took up Economics as my graduation subject. While discussing future possibilities with a friend of mine, I stumbled upon the opportunities which law could offer. I liked the knowledge and the opportunities it brought to the table.

     

    How were your years as a student at Symbiosis Law School, Pune?

    Coming from a relatively traditional city, Pune was quite liberal, I must say. Symbiosis Law School (SLS) had students who came from various parts of the world and different sections of the society with diverse thoughts. The five years at SLS helped me connect with such people ultimately contributing to my growth as a human being. My father being in a transferable job ensured we kept moving cities while I was growing up and this helped me connect with different people from different walks of life.

    During my time at SLS, we did not have many internal assignments like they do today and therefore I had the luxury  to explore a variety of extra-curricular activities as well as carry out assignments outside of college. Having said that, academics and my grades have always been very important to me. Therefore, while I used the extra time to carry out extra-curricular activities which I can elaborate on a little later, I used a lot of my time to explore the city and nearby places. However, I never compromised on my grades. It is very important to strike the right balance between these two.

     

    Did you take part in any extra-curricular activities?

    College is where everyone finds his or her interest and mostly it is discovered through the trial and error method. Everyone tends to take part in things not solely because of their inclination or interest but also because they see their counterparts doing the same things and in the process, we find our muse. The same thing happened to me. Initially I engaged in several extra-curricular activities like moots, volunteering for different events including our college fest Symbhav. However, I think what I enjoyed doing most was the work I got to do as a part of the Human Rights Cell of my college. It was a very enlightening experience. During one of my assignments, I had to visit the women at the red-light area of Pune and encourage the use of condoms amongst them. This whole experience exposed me to the harsh realities of life which most of us have been fortunate enough to not be faced with. This is when I realized that it is us who must stand up for people who do not have the means to fight for themselves.

     

    During your formative years as a student, what were your other fields of interest?

    As indicated earlier, my father was (actually still is) in a transferable job and hence moving with him regularly I lived in multiple cities at different points in time. Every place was different in its own way, I made new friends and gained varied experiences. This is represented in my love of travel. Travelling can be inspiring and enriching. I also was a swimmer and represented some clubs that I was a part of. Dance and music have always been very close to me since I was in school.

     

    What are your fields of specialization?

    Here I must admit that DSK Legal has been kind to me. At DSK Legal, I have been fortunate to have had the opportunity to experience a large gamut of work, which has in fact allowed me to realise what my interests are. The best part of having to do a broad range of work is that it helps you decide where your interest lies, what you are good at and what challenges you while also giving you the legal knowledge and practical experience of how things are done. Over the years, I have got more focused on certain areas which have interested me, and accordingly, most of my work today would primarily focus on advising and assisting clients for their investments/acquisitions/mergers (both India and cross-border) across several industry sectors and advising global companies having an Indian presence under corporate and labour laws and commercial contracts. As a lawyer, you are always learning something new every day. This is what drives me on in this profession.

    To find out what interests you and what challenges you, you must try out different things. Therefore, it is essential that in the initial years on the job you engage in a variety of work which can ultimately help you to make an informed decision. I know for a fact that doing a due diligence is not something that fascinates everyone, however, the amount of knowledge that one gains in the process is immense.

     

    Could you please tell us about the internship programs you were engaged in?

    When I was in law school, Pune did not have much of a presence of law firms as it does now. Hence, the period of your internship was limited to the vacation time which may not be enough considering there is so much to learn. However, I was very particular about one thing which was that I had to experiment with multiple aspects of the legal field. Accordingly, I started my internship with an NGO. After that I interned with a law firm in Bombay which primarily dealt with banking laws. Thereafter, I interned with a Senior Counsel in the Supreme Court, followed by an internship at an IPR firm in Delhi and then DSK Legal, Mumbai. During my first internship at DSK Legal, I got a call back for a second internship. As luck would have it, I was the only intern in the team at the time, and therefore I got some great work both in terms of quality and quantity. I was also fortunate to have very supportive seniors who were there to guide me through every step of the way. At the end of my final year, I was offered the position of an Associate. The idea on internships was that you should try and get a variety of internships so that you can gather different experiences and choose what fields of law really interest you. Practical knowledge on a subject is important when making this decision.

     

    How would you describe the period from being a graduate to starting as a corporate lawyer?

    Fortunately, for me, since I had already had two stints of internship at DSK Legal before joining them as an associate, I did not face many challenges in the transition process. Additionally, I joined work only a few days after my final semester exams so the process was very quick for me and before I knew it, I was already on the job doing my first corporate transaction. While I do not believe that it should happen to everyone the way it happened in my case, it is very important for both the lawyer and the firm, that the prospective joinees intern in the field of their choice of law and acquire practical knowledge before they start work as an associate.

     

    How would you describe a day in the office of a Manager at a reputed firm like DSK Legal?

    After having spent seven years in the profession, there vests a reasonable amount of responsibility and supervision on my shoulders. However, at DSK Legal, we are encouraged to take on a lot more at this stage. While this role encompasses supervision and review of the work done by your junior colleagues, taking responsibility and ownership of the entire collective assignment, while ensuring an effective execution and implementation of the task assigned is essential. The task need not be matter specific at all times. At this stage, it is also about what it is that you bring to the table which takes you, at a personal level and the firm at a larger level, ahead. Being in the service industry, client acceptability is critical for us. Besides this, you also have the duty to mentor your juniors and participate in client strategy discussions.

     

    Could you share some advice for the interns at DSK Legal?

    While it is not fair to expect an intern to know the practical aspects of law, it is expected that they know the basic legal concepts. For any person, willingness to happily learn should be the most important thing under any circumstance. It is one of the most important driving factors which motivates you to enrich yourself. One should also be sincere towards their work, being responsible is an essential attribute for any professional. Also, one must respect the values any organisation is built with.

     

    Do you have any causes which you strongly feel for?

    I feel very strongly for two things, people who are less fortunate and people who do not have the means to stand up for themselves. I feel I have been fortunate and it is my duty as a fellow being to help such persons and contribute in bringing change however small it may be.

     

    What do you do when you’re not working?

    Like I said before and at the cost of sounding repetitive, I love to travel. A new place, an unfamiliar environment, an unexplored culture brings out a different spark in you. You learn how to handle a situation, how to conduct yourself according to the situation, how to be with people.

     

    Any parting words of wisdom for our readers?

    Just work hard, be sincere, always put your best into whatever you do and be open to learning and never give up. And job is a means to an end not an end itself. So, it is equally important to enjoy life, make memories which will last a lifetime. It is okay to have your share of sorrows and failures as for every experience make you the person that you are.

     

     

  • Rajiv Choubey, General Counsel, HCL Infosystems, on the Indian legal regime, Corporate Law, and his experience

    Rajiv Choubey, General Counsel, HCL Infosystems, on the Indian legal regime, Corporate Law, and his experience

    Rajiv Choubey graduated in law from Faculty of Law, University of Delhi, in 1999. He is also a certified Company Secretary. He then went on to pursue his LLM from Kurukshetra University in 2014. Rajiv is an in-house corporate counsel working for the last twenty years in the field of Corporate Laws (having handled M&A, JVs FDI Policy, Foreign Trade Policy, in bound & out bound, Securities Laws, Corporate Governance), Commercial Laws, International Trade Laws, Environment related laws, Electricity related issues, Industrial & Labour Laws, Economic laws-Excise, Service Tax, Customs and Foreign Trade Policy.

    In this interview we speak to him about:

    • His diverse experience
    • Corporate Law
    • Pursuing an LLM in India

    What motivated you to pursue law?

    I was born and brought up in Asansol in West Bengal. Honestly, as a kid I wanted to pursue sports and become a footballer. However, that remained an unfulfilled dream since sports wasn’t encouraged or taken seriously back then. I pursued commerce, which was another happy accident. I like commerce as a subject, which exposed me to economics and I developed a liking for the subject. While pursuing B.Com at University of Allahabad, I was introduced to Law of Contract as part of Business Law. A lot of credit goes to our teacher, Prof. Arun Garg, who taught “Contract Act” with a lot of passion and interest. He taught packed classrooms and his students admired him so much, that sometimes we stood at the back of the classroom for lack of space, just to hear his lectures.

     

    Tell us a little about your days in law school.

    The best part of the DU law curriculum is that it is based on case studies. The moment you get admission, as part of admission process they hand over a booklet of case studies. Initially, I could not understand, what kind of booklet is this? Then I understood the system of study, the method of citation. It created immense interest in me and it changed the entire approach to study law. The best way to study and understand law is the case based approach. It was completely different from the Business Law we studied during our graduation day.

     

    What were the activities, academic or otherwise, that you undertook in your law school days which in your opinion have shaped you and your career?

    When I did law, the number of activities were much less when compared to the present day. Further since I was also pursuing CS at the same time, I could not participate in many of extra-curricular activities.

     

    Who was your mentor, or main source of inspiration who motivated you all along the way?

    My teacher at Allahabad University Mr. Arun Garg and former boss Mr.Vinay Shukla (who himself is LLB and CS) and Mr.Vikas Goel (who is CA) always motivated and were sources of inspiration.

    While working with Vedanta, Chairman Mr. Anil Agarwal and Vice-Chairman Mr. Navin Agarwal were great sources of inspiration. In one of my key matters, our Chairman made us believe that we can achieve something which we thought was impossible.  I had the opportunity to work with lots of colleagues at Vedanta and it was fantastic to work with them and handle some of key environmental issues and coming out successful. My current Group CFO, Mr. S.G. Murali is a great source of inspiration, as he leads by example. I am greatly privileged to work with some of great minds.

     

    Are L.L.Ms absolutely necessary for a career in law?

    I do not think so. At the same it is good if one can pursue the same from any foreign university, with specialisation in any particular area (say Competition law, IPR, M&A, etc.) which one ultimately desires to pursue. If someone wants to go into academics, LLM is a must.

     

    What should one expect out of an L.L.M program, if they opt to pursue one?

    I have expressed my views that LLM should be with the sole intention of obtaining specialisation in any particular area. One should always do the cost/purpose – benefit analysis before pursuing any further studies. Doing LLM from a foreign university also provides the global perspective and outlook, which is essential in today’s world, where one may be required to handle clients across the globe.

     

    Why are students only considering universities abroad for an LLM?

    There are good universities in India such as NLS, Bangalore, NALSAR, Delhi University and other National Law Schools. I think one of the reasons students go abroad is because the LLM there is only a year long. Now, even Indian Universities have switched to a one-year curriculum. However, the key reasons for pursuing LLM in foreign universities is that you get specialisation in one particular area, which one would like to pursue. Further, it provides you a global perspective, experience and access to some of best faculties.

    One the issue of Indian legal education system (on LLM Curriculum), I feel Indian Universities need to upgrade their curriculum and focus on specialisation. Currently, it is more inclined towards an academic perspective. Universities can have two branches of LLM, one LLM (Specialisation) and the other LLM (Academic), the former being more inclined towards practice areas and other more inclined towards research and academics.

     

    Which is the ideal time to do an L.L.M?

    I am personally of the view that one should pursue LLM after at least five years of practice, when you feel the need to specialize in a particular area. The initial years of practice will provide clarity in terms of areas of interests, in which one would like specialise. It is like doing MBA after initial years of experience as post work-experience, one can appreciate various facets of management and can link it with their experience.  Ultimately, it is an individual choice as many people find it difficult to pursue LLM once they start working.

     

    From your experience, would you recommend the corporate environment for fresh graduates?

    (Rajiv has worked with several corporate giants such as Vedanta Ltd. and Maruti Suzuki before joining HCL Infosystems Ltd.)

    Career is an individual choice. It also depends what is one liking, strengths. When I started my career, there was no concept of in-house legal counsel and only few MNCs like Hindustan Lever had strong in-house counsels. The role of in-house counsel in other companies was limited to attending courts on behalf of the company. However, the scenario today has completely changed post the 1991 Liberalisation policy. It took almost ten to fifteen years for the role of in-house counsels to shape up and take prominence. India today is an open economy but at the same time has a strong regulatory regime. Today, the exposure of corporates on some of key regulatory issues being faced in the telecom, coal, power, mining and other sectors has increased the scope and role of in-house counsels. I have been a witness to some key environment and mining issues and without the contribution of the in-house counsel/ legal department, it would have been difficult to successfully win the battle in court and clear the regulatory hurdles. Hence the in-house counsels used to ride pillion earlier, but now, they are at the helm of all corporate affairs. Be it advising on contracting, dispute resolution, M&A, structuring transactions, advisory, regulatory issues, or compliance, in-house counsels are playing a major role. Their role is comparable to what the HR Department used to do several years ago. Today HR has moved away from the traditional personnel and administration to more organizational development, strategic utilization of employees to serve business goals, talent management and development. Similarly, in-house counsel is to work closely with the business in terms of advising them on key issues and resolving the same to meet the business objectives and plans of the organisation.

    Fresh graduates can look at working in-house as it offers you a variety of roles and is not limited to only doing a routine job. HCL offers opportunities in all facets of law, contracting, advisory, litigation. The Legal Department is mid-sized law firm, which deals with multiple customers and meets their expectations every day.  Since we are dealing with variety of issues, it is a real challenge in terms of delivery and at the same time upgrade ourselves with the latest of what is happening in law as well as in the industry.

     

    What does a regular working day look like for you, as General Counsel of HCL Infosystems Ltd?

    Prior to taking over as General Counsel of HCL Infosystems Ltd. in June last year, my entire experience was in the manufacturing sector. HCL being into distribution, services and system integration, the issues are completely different. The business model is different, the issues are different. Every day, we have different issues to handle. Since we participate in various bids/ tenders, we receive numerous requests for vetting from the business for RFQs/ RPFs other contracts with Business Partners/ Vendors/ Channel Partners. As I stated, we are in multiple businesses – distribution, services, learning, system integration, financial inclusions; every day is full of action. Apart for advisory, we also have to attend to the pre-litigation advise and strategize in all litigation matters, brief counsels etc. There is no time for the team to relax as it very action packed.

    My previous organisation was into commodities/ natural resources, where issues were different. In HCL since you are essentially providing different services, as the in-house legal department, we are involved in advising the business in contracting, risk analysis/ mapping. Further, since in our business of providing services, they are always issues of recovery of money, which leads to multiple litigations, arbitrations. The in-house team also advises on many pre-litigation issues, which may be potential litigation issues. However, due to the intervention of the legal department, we are able to recover dues. I have felt that people in sales/ marketing and the delivery team are reluctant to take issues with the customer, even where we have delivered. Sometimes issues also arise with respect to understanding the contract obligations to issue such as drafting and put the perspective to clients/ customers. To bridge the gap, we have started an initiative called ‘Legal for Non-Legal’ where we will conduct workshops to improve the understanding of basic facets of law so that they can front face the issues in a better way and take care of the organisation interest. I have a big team of more than fifteen lawyers. Some of the lawyers have joined us at different level with two to eight years of practice. While they are good at general understanding of law, it is always better to improve their understanding or other facets of corporate laws. I have started internal workshop for my team for knowledge sharing called ‘Episteme’ where we discuss various changes/ developments in law, landmark judgments. One recent example is to update my team on the ‘Insolvency & Bankruptcy Code’ (IBC), which I felt was very necessary. There is no much to do and very less time.

     

    If given an opportunity, what would you do differently in your career journey up to this point?

    I could have practised at the Bar as I am the outgoing type. I love to take challenges, meet people and present my point of view. Further, when you are practising at the bar, apart from your practice and service to clients, you can also help people who cannot afford to engage a lawyer. Of course, there is still time and I can still purse the same.

    A student should purse that career option, which he thinks he will be good at and which excites and interests him or her. Once should never try to emulate, seeing the success of others. Further, there is so short cut to success and one has to go through the rigour which is required to prepare oneself to be in a position to advise someone and to deliver to the satisfaction of the client.

     

    Is there any other suggestion you would like to give to our budding lawyers?

    When we pursued law, it was a profession where there was lots of struggle and there was lack of guidance. Being a first generation lawyer, there was no one to guide me. Initially I wanted to practice at the bar but people discouraged me saying it is very difficult. Because of my dual qualification of Law and CS, people advised me to join corporate, saying it is financially rewarding. I still feel that I should have practised at the bar.

    My suggestion to young lawyers is to pursue their dreams – i.e., if they like litigation, they should follow the same and should not swayed by financial aspects. At the same time, if one likes advisory/ solicitor job, they should join a law firm, which has its own challenges. If one wishes to start their own firm, they should take the plunge early, may be after five years of experience. One needs self-belief and determination to start on their own. Today law as a profession is very rewarding and if one remains focused and willing to put in hard work, success is just a matter of time.

    Young lawyers should be tech savvy as today technology is being used big time in law and hence traditional approach needs to be married with new tools being used to deliver to the satisfaction of clients. One more word of advice to young lawyers is that, today’s world is an era of specialisation. While one needs to have a decent understanding of various facets of law, only those who specialize and develop expertise will survive and be valued.

     

     

  • Harshleen Kaur, In-House Counsel, ShopClues, on her diverse internships, working at MNCs, and her experience

    Harshleen Kaur, In-House Counsel, ShopClues, on her diverse internships, working at MNCs, and her experience

    Harshleen Kaur graduated from University of Legal Studies, Panjab University, in 2015. During her time as an undergraduate, she has interned with the likes of Philips Electronics India Limited, Bharti Airtel Limited, Reed Elsevier, among others. She is currently in-house counsel at online shopping portal ShopClues.

    In this interview we speak to her about:

    • Her diverse internships
    • Her time at ShopClues
    • Being in-house counsel

    How would you like to introduce yourself to our readers?

    Someone who aspired to become a designer but ended up becoming lawyer, as strongly enforced by destiny. Nevertheless, unquestionably an in- house legal counsel by dint of my peculiar, rather unconventional choice. I love my work and area of practice. I am extremely enthusiastic about my work and love to take up complex challenges. I believe in making and maintaining good relationships so that people remember me for the kind of person I am.

     

    What motivated you to pursue law?

    Well, I did not choose law as a career option until I was guided to do so  by my counselor. My initial aim was to get into one of the best design schools of India but was unsuccessful in clearing the requisite entrance exam. Disheartened with the result, I decided to visit a counselor as I was unsure about what I wanted to become and what options I had. My counselor after evaluating my skills suggested I become a lawyer. Convinced by his rationale and strongly believing the result of the assessment, I decided to pursue law. And as they say “what is meant to be always finds a way”. I was, perhaps, destined to be a lawyer.

    Career counseling played a pivotal role in my life. I would strongly recommend students who aren’t very well versed with the options available to them or are confused about what do in life, to opt for career counseling. Career counseling seeks to help you pick out a career that is tailor made to an individual’s interest, aptitude, needs and personality. Hence, it helps you to choose the right career for yourself and ultimately leading to professional success and contentment.

     

    What subjects did you take particular interest in during your law school days?

    I loved studying Intellectual Property Rights. With the advent of information technology, which our generation has been an eye witness to, intellectual capital has gained substantial importance. With intellectual works being accorded the same protections that real estate or other forms of property enjoy under the law, intellectual property and rights attached thereto have become precious commodities and are being fiercely protected. Amused by the protections available I was and I am interested in learning more about the subject. But however, this was not a deciding factor in determining my career choice. Taking an in house-counsel role was primarily driven by my internship experience.

     

    What kind of internships did you engage in during your student years?

    I started with basic internships in Human Rights Commission and State Legal Service Authorities, Chandigarh.  These helped me understand the rights available under law to an aggrieved person and free legal aid services to certain weaker and underprivileged individuals in the society. It also helped me in understanding the procedure followed by Lok Adalats and appropriate skills required for amicable settlement between parties. I also visited the most special homes of India, a Juvenile Home in order to devise an acumen of the conditions, facilities, ideologies, sensibility of the inmates.

    I then moved on to corporate internships so as to understand the nature of legal work embarked upon by the legal counsels in the companies. I interned at Philips India Limited in Gurgaon for a month and assisted their legal team in auditing the modern trade agreements and also supported them on a project regarding slum sale of audio-visual business of the company. I got a flavour of what an in-house counsel does and that inspired me to take up the legal profession as an in-house legal counsel. Since I had clarity about my preference for working as an in-house legal counsel, I focused more on corporate internships. I did my consequent internships in Bharti Airtel, Vasant Kunj and Reed Elsevier, Gurgaon. All my corporate internships helped me enormously to understand the basic skills which an in-house counsel is required to possess and a basic understanding of the applicable laws to various industries which do not form a part of the curriculum during the legal course.

    Apart from corporate internships, as a part of academic internships I worked under various lawyers in District Court and Punjab and Haryana High Court at Chandigarh. I also interned as a law researcher in office of Justice M.S. Chauhan, Panjab and Haryana High Court under the ambit of judicial internship.

    As per me all the internships are learning mechanisms where we can afford to ask silly questions and make mistakes. It helps us understand our weaknesses and turn them into strengths so that we becomes better and better in whatever area of work we intend to undertake.

     

    When and why did you make the decision to be an in-house counsel?

    Frankly speaking, interning or working in a law firm never fascinated me. I had heard enough stories from my peers and seniors on the amount of time they had to give in working for a firm. Everyone has a different personality and I strongly oppose stressful working hours, as I feel occupational stress impacts our overall well-being. Working in a stress-free environment intensifies one’s capabilities and I found that working as an in-house counsel you do not have to juggle between court and office that often, as compared to working in a firm. I was attracted to the working culture of the companies during my corporate internships.This work experience during my internships gave me the confidence that I am well suited for the profession and combined with my constant efforts to learn more on my own I felt well prepared for the corporate world. I focused on more corporate internships and remained in touch with most of the people I worked with. I was fortunate enough that the legal team at Philips remembered me even after two years of my internship and during my fifth year final exams, I was asked to join the legal team at Philips for an ongoing demerger project.

    How were the first few years after your graduation?

    UILS placements were a little difficult during my time. I was lucky to have a job before I finished with my final year. Nonetheless, the first six months were actually tough. Once you become an employee, you no more are treated like an amateur. There is no one to guide, teach or make you understand the rationales of any decision being taken. It was difficult for me because what you study in theory is not what you practice. Law school did not prepare me for the nuances of practical law. College was about attending lectures, participating in events and above all, making great memories with friends. The world seemed to be a new place when I moved from a small city like Ambala to a corporate hub like Gurgaon. But making mistakes and falling helped me understand that the glory is not in never falling, but in rising every time I fall. Hence, the toughest few months made me much stronger and confident to take up whatever came my way.

     

    How does one go about securing an internship, and subsequently a job at MNCs?

    MNCs are not very keen on getting freshers onboard. In fact all companies, MNCs or Indian companies prefer candidates for a fresher position, who have worked or interned with them before. This helps them know the qualities, capabilities and willingness of a candidate to learn and grow in their job. Grabbing an internship in an MNC can only be attained if you have some good connections, unless the MNC is in dire need of an intern and has posted in some job portal. In case companies do not visit the law school, recommendation is the best route which can be opted as per my view. One should try and find someone who works at the company and is willing to refer. This actually has an advantage in a way that you’ve got a kind of a middle-man between you and the company. Once should always focus on learning the maximum and building a good network. One should never forget that there are lakhs of candidates in the market, but what makes one standout from the crowd is the qualities of a team player, a peoples person, skills, applicability of existing laws and willingness to work hard. If the employer is convinced on these skills, getting the opportunity to work as an in-house may be certainly fulfilled.

     

    Give us a brief overview of your current work profile with Shopclues.com.

    First of all, I am glad that I chose a smaller company shopclues.com as compared to Philips. I was loaded with work when I joined, as the team was very small and was the second legal counsel to join. I got the chance to learn to a lot both on my own and with supervision of the existing members in the team. Working in a smaller rather than a larger company has allowed me to take on more responsibilities, be in a direct contact with higher management and  progress faster by understanding the business requirements  and develop essential legal skills.

    As an in-house counsel you do a little bit of everything. There is work related to different areas like policy drafting, IPR litigation, compliance, transaction, acquisitions, and contracts. Since the company has a  global presence, international law also comes into play sometimes. As an in-house counsel you are expected to foresee potential problems  and stop them before they become a legal issue. It is more about working closely with business teams to identify legal issues and decide what type and level of risk is acceptable. One thing which most legal in-house counsels do not get the opportunity to do is litigation. But I am fortunate enough to have this area as a large part  of my responsibility. Working on existing IPR matters has helped me immensely to understand the procedural law. As an in-house one is suppose to strategise the matters keeping in mind the best interests for the company in a way which does not affect the business.

     

    Is there any other suggestion you would like to give our budding lawyers?

    It is very important for law students to choose their area of practice. I would advise all the law students to carefully and timely decide on what exactly they intend to take up. Stay abreast of legal developments. You must undertake as many and as diverse internships as you can and make the most of them. Know the limits of  your time and of your expertise. Understand the kind of work profile under different roles and make sure you develop a good relationship with all your assigned mentors during internships. No matter what you get as a remuneration or designation, if it is the profile you would like to work on, you must take whatever comes your way. Always remember that opportunities are like sunrises, if you wait to long, you miss them.

     

  • Jeevan Ballav Panda, Principal Associate, Khaitan & Co., on Dispute Resolution, Environment Law, and his diverse experience

    Jeevan Ballav Panda, Principal Associate, Khaitan & Co., on Dispute Resolution, Environment Law, and his diverse experience

    Jeevan Ballav Panda graduated from Hidayatullah National Law University, Raipur, in 2008 with Distinction in Environmental Law and Intellectual Property Rights. He has experience handling litigation and arbitration proceedings including interaction with clients, liaising with clients/ counsel, undertaking legal research and formulating strategies, drafting and preparing pleadings, briefing and assisting counsel, regularly appearing and arguing matters before the Supreme Court of India, Delhi High Court, National Green Tribunal (Principal Bench, New Delhi), National Company Law Tribunal (Principal Bench, New Delhi), Debt Recovery Tribunal, Delhi and Arbitral Tribunals (both domestic and international).  He has also appeared before Calcutta High Court (Original Side & Appellate Side), Goa Bench of the Bombay High Court, Jharkhand High Court, National Green Tribunal (Southern Zone, Chennai), City Civil Court, Calcutta, District & Sessions Courts, Magistrate’s Courts, Labour Courts/ Industrial Tribunals, Consumer Forums, Trade Marks Registry and other administrative/quasi-judicial authorities.

    In this interview we speak to him about:

    • His time at HNLU
    • Dispute Resolution and Environment Law
    • His experience thus far

     

    How would you like to introduce yourself to our readers?

    It is indeed my profound pleasure and privilege to give this interview. I would like to thank SuperLawyer for giving me the opportunity to help its followers in whatever possible manner.

    I was from the science stream and was supposed to be a medical aspirant but destiny had some other plans and it was by chance that I ended up pursuing law in the first batch of HNLU. The five years of Law School saw a complete metamorphosis of my personality from an introvert and reserved individual when I joined in 2003, to pursuing Dispute Resolution practice after graduating in 2008.  Being in the inaugural batch of the university gave me much needed exposure and I thoroughly enjoyed the five years in law school by participating as a speaker in some of the most reputed Moot Court competitions across the world, participating in about a dozen seminars/ conferences, publishing about twenty articles, being the first in the university to do a foreign internship, first in the university to get a pre-placement offer (PPO) and ultimately  working in one of India’s oldest and leading full service law firms for the last nine years or so.

     

    What motivated you to opt for legal studies after school?

    As I said earlier, I was from the science stream and was supposed to be a medical aspirant, considering the fact that that was the most conventional career choice at the time. Law was never considered as a preferred career option then and was looked down upon and perceived to be pursued by those who did not have any future in engineering or medicine. Though I came from a family full of engineers including my father, sister, cousins and later my wife, I was personally never keen on pursuing engineering. I have always been fascinated with cars so my heart at some stage wanted me to pursue Automobile Engineering but my mind deterred me from doing so because even this field required studying some common subjects like other Engineering courses. I was also not confident of pursuing Medicine as a career option.

    It would not be out of place to admit that right before my class 12 examinations, a discussion with my maternal grandfather Mr. Bisweswar Purohit (who is well known and a leading Advocate in Western Odisha) and whom I hold in high esteem really convinced me into pursuing law. My maternal grandfather who recently stopped practising after about 55 years of practice, was a self-made man and as a child I was always attracted towards the respect he commanded in society and the unlimited scope of emoluments the profession provided on being successful. As luck would have it  I did not score good ranks in the Medical or Engineering entrance examination and around the same time someone told my father in his office that with the advent of the five years integrated law course from National Law Schools, law has a great scope in the near future. On enquiry it transpired that the due date for appearing in the National Entrance Test (NET) of the then existing five National Law Schools were over. I was not interested in losing out a year by preparing for any course. Coincidentally my sister found a Newspaper Advertisement for commencement of HNLU and that the NET was scheduled two days after. I appeared in the NET by travelling to Raipur the very next day and when the results were out I was pleasantly surprised to have been shortlisted. That’s my journey of landing in a National Law School.

     

    Give us a brief overview your HNLU experience.

    In my opinion, five years of law school is a great opportunity for each student to experience the wide range of extra-curricular activities that it offers apart from the courses offered as part of the academic curriculum. When I graduated in 2008, an NLU tag possibly had more significance because NLUs were considered to be equivalent to IIMs or IITs for law and it gave you a good platform. Needless to mention, you still had to make good use of the platform and prove yourself. However, today with NLUs mushrooming across various states and several private and other law schools doing equally well in terms of exposure, faculty, and facilities, I do not think that not having an NLU tag is in itself a set-back, if otherwise the student is passionate about law and focused. The private and other law schools these days have discipline in their management and a wide variety in their course curriculum with mandatory attendance for classes, internships made compulsory and student exchange programmes with universities abroad providing excellent exposure and opportunities.

    Being in the first batch of HNLU was in fact a blessing in disguise since it was a small batch of about 50 students from different corners of the country. We had the advantage of being taught by some of the most experienced and brilliant legal minds from across the world and also were usually the first choice for being considered for representing the university in any competition or forum. Moot Courts gave you popularity amongst the junior batches, even more than topping the semester and I realised it very soon. Apart from that, the in depth research and team work that it brought in motivated me to participate as a Researcher in the Surana & Surana Corporate Law Moot Court Competition in the second year of law school itself. Thereafter, I participated as a Speaker in various other Moot Competitions like Henry Dunant, Commonwealth, Murdoch University International Maritime Arbitration and Willem C. Vis International Commercial Arbitration (West) and gained experience which immensely helped me during my initial days as a qualified lawyer to cope up with the pressures of a matter. I participated in various seminars and conferences as a Speaker on contemporary issues/ subjects both in India and abroad.  I converted my project papers into articles and got them published at various national and international books and journals.

    I utilised my extensive research work done at the Indian Society of International Law (ISIL) Library for the Murdoch University International Maritime Arbitration Moot Court Competition by applying and obtaining a month long Internship at Cocks Macnish, Perth, Australia before being joined by my team for the Moot Court Competition.

     

    In your opinion, what are the activities that you would recommend as necessary experiences for every law student?

    Internships, moot courts, client counselling, publications, seminars/ conferences, etc. are equally important as scoring good grades in the semesters. In my view, one should not lose out on the opportunities that the law course provides to a student because each activity has a significant role to build and shape significant skills like researching abilities, legal reasoning, analytical skills, confidence level, personality building, public relations, etc. which are indispensable in one way or the other for a successful advocate.

     

    From your experience in legal writing, please share with our readers the kind of topics that one must write on if they hope to get their work published in reputed journals?

    Writing is not something which came naturally to me. I tried to gradually improve this. In law school, I chose my project topics very carefully considering its relevance and wrote them after thorough analysis and research. Hence, it was easier to convert them into articles and make them worthy of publication. Writing article helps one to keep abreast with latest developments.

    Even now, I continue to write articles and choose topics of contemporary relevance like the significant decision of the Supreme Court or a High Court on a particular issue, ambiguous/ conflicting legal position, absence of legislative framework or implementation mechanism in a particular field, comparative legal position across jurisdictions, change in law and implications thereof, etc.

    For writing a good article to generate interest in the readers, originality, thorough analysis of the existing legal position and clarity of expression of views/ thoughts/ opinions are a must, apart from identifying the targeted readers. One should also consider his/ her own areas of interest before choosing a topic to write an article.

     

    What kind of internships did you undertake during your student years?

    I started interning with my maternal grandfather in the first year, followed by internships with the Senior Advocate in the Orissa High Court, Sandersons & Morgans, Kolkata, Khaitan & Co, Kolkata, Cocks Macnish, Perth, Australia and Zeus Law Associates, New Delhi. I did not have any references and managed to get confirmation for all my internships on the basis of personal application and calculated follow ups. With some contacts/ references maybe that I could have secured few more internships in other Tier I Firms, however there are no regrets.

    I think these days securing a good internship is getting more and more difficult as the internships one gets is more to do with the contacts/ references one has. With a small legal fraternity and the increasing demand of students to pursue law, mushrooming law schools, the competition for securing an internship is increasing day by day with very limited number of slots left for internship through the internship coordination committee.

    Choosing places for internship has got more to do with variety in the first three years of law school, such as NGOs, District Court, High Court/ Supreme Court and Company and narrowing down the choices in the fourth and fifth year depending on whether one is inclined towards Dispute Resolution or Corporate practice.

    I still feel that one should make the most out of the opportunities that comes his/ her way. If one has options to choose from, then of course you can strategize and choose the internship that best suits your interests and profile in the longer run. I feel each internship opportunity is a chance of proving yourself and have an edge over others interning along and get noticed by the firm/ organisation. It is as good as giving an interview for securing a job on a continuous basis, with each day of your internship tenure giving an opportunity to exhibit your skill sets.

     

    What are your areas of specialisation and how did you go about choosing these fields to specialise in?

    In law school, our course curriculum BA LLB (Hons.) required us to choose two subjects as Honours/ Specialisation papers so I chose Environmental Law and Intellectual Property Rights. The choices were unconventional as majority of my batch mates chose Corporate Laws or the like. On the basis of my internships and inclination towards pursuing Dispute Resolution practice, I decided not to go with the herd mentality and saw lot of scope and potential in Environmental Law and Intellectual Property Rights in the near future. I could also secure Outstanding and Distinction Grades in both the Honours papers I chose. It is very important that one understands the relevance of a specialisation subject for himself/ herself and chooses the subject accordingly and not just for the sake of it or just because the majority is choosing it.

    At what stage in one’s law school life must one pick a specialisation?

    In my view, in law school one must aim at learning and understanding the basics right. After completion of third year, on the basis of internship experiences one can make a broad choice of whether he/ she has an inclination towards Dispute Resolution practice or Corporate practice. The specialisation/ Honours papers, if any, may be chosen accordingly. The internships for the fourth year and fifth year should also be streamlined and planned in such a way.

    In my view, after graduating irrespective of whether one has chosen Dispute Resolution or Corporate practice, it is important to build up a strong set of basic skills. Dispute Resolution practice and handling Court matters gives you that much needed exposure. However, most of the firms do not give you that exposure and in the event you are hired for Corporate or Real Estate or Tax practice, you are trained for such specialised area of practice from the first day of joining. Some firms do have a rotation policy by which freshers are given exposure to different areas of practice including Dispute Resolution for a year or two. I strongly believe that for every law graduate it is important to do Dispute Resolution practice on general laws and make the basic and foundation strong in first two to three years of their career. This is very important because once you have your basics right, it is easier to pick up a specialisation.

     

    Who was your mentor, or main source of inspiration who/which motivated you all along the way?

    While my maternal grandfather Mr. Bisweswar Purohit has been my mentor and continues to be my constant source of inspiration, different people at different stages have played a pivotal role in providing me the right guidance and advice. Needless to mention that a mentor can only show you the path and what is right and wrong but to ensure that the path is followed and the suggestions are effectively implemented is still to be carried out by oneself only.

    In my association with Khaitan & Co., I have had the privilege of assisting stalwarts of the legal profession like Mr. Ram Kishore Choudhury, Mr. Pradip Kumar Khaitan, Mr. R.N. Jhunjhunwala and Mr. Padam Khaitan, and directly working under their supervision, guidance and advice. Their experience and expertise inculcated in me deep rooted traditions of integrity, the ability to handle complex situations in life and in profession with ease, discipline, humility, meticulousness and how to continue hard work irrespective of your position and stature because there are no shortcuts in life and no substitute to hard work. Mr. Pradip Kumar Khaitan and Mr. R.N. Jhunjhunwala being the senior most Partners of Khaitan & Co. have been like family and all along led me as my guru, philosopher and guide. Presently, I have the pleasure of assisting Mr. Ajay Bhargava and Ms. Vanita Bhargava, who have two decades of experience in handling complex litigation in diverse fields of law and have their unique ways of approaching a legal issue. Their success and popularity at such a young age is motivating and inspiring.

     

    What does it take to make the cut and land a Tier-I job?

    Ownership and belongingness towards the firm, combined with hard work, dedication, and responsibility in what is entrusted to you is important to make the cut. Hard work, discipline, honesty, integrity, sincerity, loyalty and willingness to learn are the quintessential attributes of a lawyer which are indispensable for a prospective candidate, whether it is a Tier I Firm or any organisation for that matter.

     

    What is the level importance given to a student’s Grade Point Average with respect to recruitments at Tier-I firms?

    Grade Point Average may definitely give the student an edge over others on Day Zero to be shortlisted or interviewed by a Tier I Firm. However, mere Grade Point Average according to me is not adequate if the rest of the CV of the student does not reflect the overall outlook and personality required for the profile. An average student with better exposure in terms of internships and learning in those internships, moot courts, seminars/ conferences, publications, etc. may fit in to a role better than a topper of the batch with good Grade Point Average but no real exposure in terms of extra-curricular activities. I believe as a student of law it is important to be a Jack of all trades.

     

    How do you say interns should go about their work at a firm like Khaitan, so as to get noticed in a positive way in the limited time they have?

    Exhibit initiative and willingness to learn and having solution driven approach in the work assigned rather than sitting over the same work for days or weeks together without any progress. The four to six weeks tenure one gets as an intern is a golden opportunity to prove yourself and your skills every single day and project yourself to be better than the rest. Acclimatize to the working style and environment quickly, get involved with the work assigned, show ownership, responsibility and belongingness towards the legal issues and try to come out with high quality research and solution/opinion, as the case may be. Consider your internship as a now or never opportunity to get noticed (not only in terms of your talent but your behavioural skills as well) and secure a Pre-Placement Offer. I am sure such approach will have a lot of positive impact and definitely help in the longer run.

     

    What does a regular work day look like for you?

    In hindsight, I seem to have taken my school’s (DAV Public School) motto of “Work is Worship” quite seriously. I am a workaholic and passionate about what I do. As a Dispute Resolution lawyer the day usually starts with early morning conferences, appearances before Courts preceded/ followed by discussions/ interactions with counsel/ senior counsel or other legal professionals in Court while waiting for matters or after that, dictating matter updates for clients, arbitrations in the afternoon/ evening followed by drafting pleadings/ opinions/ preparation for the next day matters.

    I enjoy the presence of the firm, complexity of the matters, court appearances, dealing with high profile clients and matters that it provides but at times it does affect your work-life balance, which one has to cope with and sometimes accept.

     

    Is there any other suggestion you would like to give to our budding lawyers?

    Be honest and sincere to yourself and understand your strength and weaknesses. Take your decisions rationally and not impulsively. Self-motivation and self-confidence is very important. Learn to stay grounded and lie low with humility irrespective of whether you are flying high or passing through a difficult phase in life. Everything is temporary and change is the law of nature. Be passionate about what you do and do it like no one else can do it better than you.

     

  • Shubhangini Rohatgi, Deputy Manager-Legal, Mahindra, on studying in London, IT Law, Contracts, and her diverse experience

    Shubhangini Rohatgi, Deputy Manager-Legal, Mahindra, on studying in London, IT Law, Contracts, and her diverse experience

    Shubhangini graduated from Guru Gobind Singh Indraprastha University, in 2007. After having worked for five years in the IT and Telecom Industry, she decided to pursue higher studies and thus, completed her LLM in Corporate and Commercial Law from Queen Mary, University of London, in the year 2013, with specialization in Cyberspace, Privacy and Information and E-Commerce laws. Her forte has been Commercial Contracting with a focus on the IT (Software) sector. She is currently associated with Comviva Technologies Limited (a subsidiary of Tech Mahindra), as a Legal Counsel handling reviews and negotiations of commercial contracts along with providing general advisory as well as advisory related to employment matters. She has previously worked with Oracle India and British Telecom.

    In this interview we speak to her about:

    • The Indian legal education regime
    • Studying in London
    • Her experience in IT

    How would you like to introduce yourself to our readers?

    I am a transactional lawyer, having worked in the field of Information Technology and Telecom for close to a decade. Quite contrary to the profession I’ve chosen for myself, I am an introvert at heart, and a not-so-social butterfly. But that has never deterred me from moving ahead in my career.

     

    What motivated you to pursue law?

    My Mother! She always wanted me to do something different. As a matter of fact, I was known to be a very argumentative child, as my father always observed and never failed to highlight, a quality which later helped me decide my future plans. My parents, being from the medical and teaching fields, encouraged my elder brother and me to pursue an unfamiliar path. Around that time, in the late ’90s, the usual career choices were either medical or engineering. My brother opted for hotel management, a career decision which many questioned, but supported by my parents, he proved himself in that field and is now doing very well in the hotel industry. When my time came, in early 2000, I did not wish to take up the regular courses, and of course had to follow in his stead, and thus chose between Law and Journalism. It’s a decision I am very proud of today.

     

    Would you say that the teaching methods here and abroad are vastly different?

    It would not be correct on my part to decide the level of difference in the teaching processes in India and abroad. Foremost reason being, that there is a vast difference in taking a course at an under-graduation level and post-graduation level. It was in India that I learnt the basics of education, and which brought me to the stage that I have reached. As part of my Masters’ degree in Law, I got the opportunity to be taught by acclaimed professors who were authorities in themselves. The focus of the professors is on imparting a practical sense of understanding rather than bookish knowledge. I am sure the same mechanism is being imbibed by faculty in India as well, making lectures more and more interactive. Unfortunately though, I have learnt the hard way that a Masters’ degree in Law, even from a prestigious international university, is not equivalent to an MBA. So, it is your basics which must be absolutely strong, and I believe, India has enough law colleges of repute which focus on the same.

     

    How significant do you think internships are for law students? 

    Internships must be made an integral and mandatory part of the law program starting from the first year itself. It helps in determining your likes and dislikes and paves the way for deciding which field to enter in the future. Of course, no one’s stopping you from choosing a different path even after! During my law school, I interned with several law firms, as well as with independent lawyers. It was because of this one internship with a Delhi based law firm in my fifth year which helped me get my very first job with British Telecom, a multi-national telecommunications company headquartered in UK. While I was interning I got a flavour of contracts, and got to know about the various terms which form part of contracts. It was a simple exercise of comparing two draft versions of a contract and highlighting the areas of difference. It may sound like an effortless job, but for a person still in law-college this was a very important piece of work assigned by a senior at the law firm. So I had to give it my best shot. In the process, I read through the entire contract, word by word, and few terms from the contract (which we call “boilerplates”) got etched in my mind (so much so, that even after eleven years, I still remember the name of the client whose draft it was, but for confidentiality purposes, will not pen down here). This simple piece of work helped me get my first job with a top MNC, while I was still in final year.

     

    Did you have any mentor or guiding figure during your formative years as a lawyer?

    I am a first generation lawyer, so it was not that I could rely on a lawyer in the family for deciding my career path or even understanding the nuances of law. My parents have always been my guides and mentors, and any and all decisions that I take, are taken giving due consideration to their advice imparted to me during my formative years.

     

    What are your fields of specialization? 

    My field of specialisation is reviewing and negotiating commercial contracts, more particularly software contracts. By way of qualification, I have specialised in e-commerce, privacy and data protection and cyber laws. It was during the initial six months as trainee at British Telecom that made me realise that commercial contracts were my calling. As I have primarily worked with Telecom and IT companies, it was an obvious choice to take up privacy, cyber laws and e-commerce as subjects of specialization given the fact that these are still considered niche and up-coming fields in India.

     

    Having worked in firms like British Telecom and Oracle India, what would be your advice for job seeking aspirants?

    From a value perspective, I feel that employers seek to engage with people who are sincere and committed. Unfortunately, integrity is a facet not seen in many. No matter what the situations and circumstances are, one should not deviate from the value of integrity. It goes a long way, and you will be remembered as an honest and truthful soul. From a work perspective, one should choose a career/job which one truly enjoys doing. Ultimately, it is your life and you alone should be responsible and accountable for the direction it goes in.

    I find myself fortunate to have gotten the opportunity to work with big names like British Telecom and Oracle. But, it wasn’t an easy job. One has to be focused and driven by passion to achieve something. My first six months at British Telecom, which was my very first job, was about preparing an online contract repository, which quite literally involved typing/copying clauses from PDF versions of contracts and pasting them on an online tool which was developed for creating an online repository of contracts. It may seem a dull and monotonous piece of work (and which quite frankly it was!), but it really helped me understand contract terms and conditions – just imagine the wide range of clauses I would read day in-day out.

     

    On what basis would you hire an intern?

    First and foremost, the person deciding the selection should keep in mind that an intern is still a student, and should be treated as one. He or she comes with a passion and is full of vigour.  Having said that, the key quality that I would look for, while selecting, would be the individual’s enthusiasm and eagerness to learn. I firmly believe that one may not know all, but with a learning bent of mind, one can achieve anything. The other quality I’d look for in an intern would be a sense of commitment and dedication. Not that I would want my interns to slog the entire day, as I am also a firm believer of having fun at work, but, such fun should be accompanied by serious commitment towards work.

     

    How do you stay updated on the latest legal developments?

    I regularly read the newspapers, and articles from various legal news websites to abreast myself of the latest updates and developments. Also, as my husband is a litigating lawyer, we often have dinner table discussions around various topics.

     

    What do you like to do when you’re not working?

    I like to read. More than reading, I like to collect books and articles. Although I may not get the time to read much, I feel content in the fact that I have something to rely upon.

     

    Any word of advice for our readers?

    The key to real success is happiness and contentment. I believe in the fact that though commitment and dedication is an essential element of climbing the ladder of success, the most important one is being happy and enjoying the work you do. If you enjoy your work, you are happy, and if you are happy, then dedication and commitment will reflect in your demeanour, and success will automatically follow you.

     

     

  • Apurva Agarwal, Founding Partner, Universal Legal, on starting his own firm, and working at Luthra & Luthra

    Apurva Agarwal, Founding Partner, Universal Legal, on starting his own firm, and working at Luthra & Luthra

    Apurva Agarwal graduated from National Law School of India University, Bangalore, in 1999. Soon after, he started work with Shah Desai Doijode & Phatarphekar.  He then pursued his LLM, with a focus in Corporate and Commercial Laws, at Bond University, Australia, where he achieved academic distinction when his name appeared on the Dean’s List.  Upon completion of his LLM he returned to India where he worked for DSK Legal (formerly Andersen Legal India) and Luthra and Luthra Law Offices.  He now has his own firm, Universal Legal.  His areas of expertise include Real Estate, Corporate and Commercial, Medical, Intellectual Property and Media. His articles have been published in various newspapers and magazines.  

    In this interview we speak to him about:

    • Working at Luthra & Luthra
    • Starting his own firm
    • Being a first generation lawyer

     

    What motivated you to pursue a career in law?

    I have always wanted to be a lawyer. And being a first generation lawyer at that made it all the more challenging. 

     

    Tell us a bit about your time at NLSIU, Bangalore.

    Studying law was challenging as the methods adopted in NLSIU were different. It was not lecture-oriented but discussion-oriented. Students were expected to read before coming to class, so that a healthy discussions could happen. It was an initial shock to me coming straight out of school to this. I come from an all-boys school, hence interaction with girls on campus was a pleasant surprise. Further, the faculty included stalwarts like Dr N R Madhava Menon, Dr. N. L. Mitra, Prof. S. V. Joga Rao, etc. which gave us perspectives of law beyond our imagination. Also, we had practicing lawyers coming and sharing their experiences with us , which allowed us to have practical insights to law.

     

    Did you take part in co-curricular activities while in college? 

    Yes, I did take part in co-curricular activities. I participated in a few moot courts—although, with rather unsuccessful results, I should add. I helped the institution organise several conferences.  The highlight was, when I led a team to organise an international conference on Human Rights in association with Interights. The conference was attended by 40 odd judges including Chief Justices from across the world, including Dr. A. S. Anand, the then Chief Justice of India.

     

    What were you areas of interest during your legal education?

    I was interested in doing Corporate Law. However, when I got into practical world and started working, real estate and succession planning became my forte. In fact, I have also authored a book on real estate called Layman’s Guide to Property Transaction Rights.

     

    What are the causes you feel strongly about? 

    We need to simplify the laws and legal writings so that a common man can understand it. I consciously wrote my book in a language other than English, to make it more accessible. Further, I conduct legal workshops and lectures through various fora to make people understand the same.

     

    What advice would you give students in avoiding a decision paralysis?

    Unless you want to get into academics or work abroad, pursuing further studies is not required. It’s better to dive into the big bad world headfirst. Practical experience is the best teacher.

     

    How did you keep up with Bond University’s academic rigour? 

    It was very exciting as you got to meet with students from across the world, which was not possible in India. It was a melting pot of diverse cultures. It was a confluence of various legal systems. The university expected very high standards of academic performance from all its students. The faculty was very approachable and friendly. We used to have lunches and drinks together and learn more outside the class than inside it.

     

    Tell us about your early professional experiences at DSK Legal and Luthra and Luthra Law Offices. 

    DSK Legal, through its managing partner Anand Desai taught me how to apply law to suit the clients’ requirement. The aim was to provide the client with the most appropriate solution. At the Luthra and Luthra Law Offices, I learnt to work against stiff timelines. The body of work was varied but mainly concentrated on Real Estate and Media.

     

    Did you have a mentor or guide during the formative years of your career?

    I did not have a mentor. I think it’s essential to have someone to look up to and guide you during the initial phase of your career.

     

    How did you come to be the Founding Partner at Universal Legal? 

    I was one of the first few recruits of Luthra and Luthra Law Offices, in Mumbai. This enabled me to get insight on how to establish a law office. This got me thinking, if I can do it for someone else, then why not for myself. We are a full service law firm. At the firm, we tried to incorporate all that we admire about reputable Tier-1 firms, and add a personalised touch to it. Also, we did not want to sit in office and idle our time. It was clear that people have to work long hours if there is work on the table. But if there are days, when there is less work, you are not required to sit in office. We believe in five day weeks and promote a healthy work life balance.

     

    Do you consciously focus on building a specific body of work? 

    Yes we do.

     

    What are the challenges and learning opportunities that you have faced in your career so far?

    The challenges are to constantly get work in the firm and keep abreast with the developments happening in the field of law. With the laws changing so fast and being adapted to new scenarios, we have to be on our toes.

     

    How do you deal with the pressures associated with your position?

    If you enjoy what you are doing, then there is no pressure.

     

    What qualities and achievements do you look for in potential job applicants/ interns at Universal Legal?

    The person should be willing to learn and have the basic knowledge of law. The person should have the ability to find the law and solution.

    Can you describe the process that goes behind writing?

    There is no processes as such. It’s the knowledge that we gather along the way gets translated into the writing.

     

    How do you keep yourself updated about the latest developments in the law?

    Reading and doing research. Also, by trying constantly reinvent myself

    What advice would you like to give our readers, who are mostly law students and young lawyers?

    Just be yourself and enjoy what you do.

  • Ameeta Duggal, Partner, DGS Associates, on studying at York, working at AMS, and starting her own firm

    Ameeta Duggal, Partner, DGS Associates, on studying at York, working at AMS, and starting her own firm

    Ameeta Duggal graduated in law from Campus Law Center, Delhi University, in 1991. She started her career with Mr. Ashwini Kumar, former Minister of Law and currently the special envoy to Japan. She then worked briefly with Amarchand Mangaldas Shroff before joining Associated Law Advisers. Ameeta was awarded a British Chevening Scholarship by the Foreign and Commonwealth Office to study at the College of Law, York from 1996 – 1997. Thereafter she worked briefly in the London office of Clifford Chance, one of the world’s largest law firms before returning to India. Ameeta founded DGS Associates in 2004.

    In this interview we speak to her about:

    • The legal industry in the ’90s
    • Working at AMS
    • Winning the British Chevening Scholarship by the Foreign and Commonwealth Office

    How would you like to introduce yourself to our readers?

    I am a somewhat unconventional lawyer who has always tread the unchartered path. There has been no planning that has gone into charting my professional growth. This has helped me in exploring various areas of law, which may have been lost to me had I proceeded with a predeteremined growth trajectory. I do not believe in compartmentalising my practice areas and have tried to explore various aspects of law. I started my professional career as a pure litigator and have continued to keep litigation as one of my practice areas irrespective of the fact that over the years I have moved to a completely different line of practice, being my trade laws practice, which I started in 2008. I believe that my strength lies in drafting and negotiations rather than arguing in Court. While I am immensely passionate about my work, I ensure that it never deprives me of my love for travel so I strive to make my work complement my travels to the greatest extent possible.

     

    Tell us a little about your days in law school.

    I studied law from the Faculty of Law, Campus Law Centre, Delhi between 1989 and 1991. In those days, Law was a residual career option since majority of the law students were writing their Civil Services exams. There were just a handful of us who were there to pursue law as a career option. The others just wanted to have a Plan B should they fail to clear the Civil Services exam or such other options.

    Having come from an all girls’ college, Lady Shri Ram, life in he Delhi University campus was an experience with a varied mix of students. One of the incidents that has, however, stayed with me is from a class in Negotiable Instruments. In my first semester, one of our Professors had asked us a question pertaining to the bouncing of a cheque and I remember getting up and saying that “my common sense tells me…” The professor told me something that I have never forgotten. He said that we must always remember that law is not about “common sense” but what is provided in the statute. Over the years, I have often been reminded of this saying and how true it holds.

     

    What are your areas of specialisation in law? 

    Specialisation in a given field of law is a fairly recent practice in Law. During our days at the Law Faculty we neither specialised in any specific area nor were we required to intern. Those who belonged to a family of lawyers may have spent time interning. But the rest of us had not seen a lawyers’ chamber till the time we started to looking for work. Accordingly, there were no areas of specialisation but we had areas of interest. I was always interested in contractual and corporate laws. We, however, did not have the option of International trade laws as a subject.

    I personally do not conform to specialisations. I have always been open to assisting a client with all areas of law. The only distinction I draw is between civil and criminal laws and I have stayed away from criminal law in all my years of practicing law. Other than that I have worked on varied assignments, including environmental audits, project financing, mergers & acquisitions, International commercial arbitrations and litigation (both as a Government and private counsel). It is only recently, that I have started focusing more on International trade and mergers & acquisition as my preferred areas of work.

    While on the issue of specialisation, I would like to share one of my experiences at Clifford Chance when I was working with them briefly. One morning we received a fax from a client with some four to five questions, including queries on tax and securitisation. The fax was shared across three floors depending on the areas of  law involved. This was in my initial week at Clifford Chance. Having worked in India for a few years by then I was somewhat surprised since in those days, a client query like that would have come to our table in India and we would have responded to all of them, more like a single window clearance. In my opinion, it is more comforting for a client to go to a single person for advice rather than being sent from one team to the other.

     

    How were the first few years after your graduation? 

    Unlike today, when students spend considerable time interning and gaining practical experience, for us studying Law was essentially an academic exercise, which guided us through the legal fundamentals and taught us what and how to look for the answer to a query received from a client. However, what we learnt at the law faculty was far removed from the real world practice. Objectively speaking we cannot be taught how to be a lawyer sitting in a classroom. Legal practice can only be learnt standing in a courtroom, sitting in a board room negotiating across the table or sitting across a Government authority proposing policy changes.

    This is where I owe a lot to the chambers of Dr. Ashwani Kumar (including my gown, which traditionally is presented by one’s senior) with whom I worked for almost a year. We used to be paid pittance in those days but the experience we gained was immense. Dr. Kumar was in those days a standing counsel for the Delhi Electricity Supply Undertaking (DESU), one of the biggest litigators in the Delhi High Court. On any given day we had at least ten to twelve cases listed in the High Court and we had no option but to start arguing from the very first day. Credit is also due to the judges who encouraged freshers to seize the opportunity and argue rather than seek an adjournment on the ground that the senior lawyer was unavailable. I have had a very special hearing before a Division Bench of Justice B.N. Kirpal (former Chief Justice of India) and Justice Sunanda Bhandare, who coaxed me into arguing a petition in the very first month of having joined Dr. Kumar; guiding me through the arguments and eventually dismissing the petition in my favour. Those were days filled with excitement and exhaustion but the thrill of getting a good order from the High Court was priceless. I learnt to be a lawyer overnight.

     

    Tell us about working at a Tier-I firm such as Amarchand Mangaldas Shroff.

    Amarchand Mangaldas Shroff is  undoubtedly a sought after firm now and also in those days when it was not so huge. I had the privilege of working directly with Pallavi Shroff and her team, I realised in my first few days there that I was not meant to work in a big law firm. I tendered my resignation within weeks of my joining that firm to move to a start up firm, Associated Law Advisers (ALA), which was still getting established in terms of office space. I spent almost eleven years with ALA and left only to start my own law firm.

    ALA is where I grew as a lawyer. We started as a small team of four lawyers (two partners and two associates). Each one of us supported the other and we learnt to do everything on our own – from filing to researching to drafting to appearing in courts and before arbitrators and to do large sized acquisitions, legal and environmental due diligences. My first acquisition was when Whirlpool acquired Kelvinator. I learnt as we moved through the acquisition and all credit goes to my partners, Mr. O.P. Bhardwaj and Ms. Lira Goswami, who never hesitated in giving us complete charge of a client file while keeping a broad check on the deliverables. I owe my growth as a lawyer to my years in ALA.

     

    Tell us about winning the British Chevening Scholarship by the Foreign Commonwealth Office.

    Applying for the British Chevening Scholarship was almost an accident. My then senior partner, Lira Goswami, mentioned the scholarship while we were waiting for our matter. From Court I went to the British Council to collect the form only to learn that I had just a day to submit it. Of course, I never expected to be selected but I did get an interview call. The interview panel comprised two faculty members of the college of law, York, a senior counsel from India and a representative of the Foreign Commonwealth Office. The counsel posed some direct questions on the various provisions of the Companies Act. After having fielded a few questions I remember telling him that as a lawyer I am aware which legislation I need to check but I was not aware of each and every provision of the Companies Act. The intent was not to be rude but it was an irrational expectation for a young lawyer to be familiar with more than 500 provisions of the Companies Act. I do believe that this response got me the scholarship.  

     

    How was your experience at College of Law, York?

    We were a group of twelve lawyers from all over India who were sent to the College of Law, York. Most of us were travelling outside India for the very first time and we were indeed an excited bunch of young lawyers who landed in York. The course was very thoughtfully conceived with an amazing faculty. We forged new friendships, not only within the group but with other law students at the College and with our faculty. The friendships have continued and we also continue to be referral partners for each other.

    What made our days at the College of law most memorable and fun filled is the fact that we were all practicing law already and had the security of having a job waiting for us back home. That sense of security eased the pressures and made the entire programme a huge learning experience. We got an opportunity to work with some of the biggest law firms in London.

     

    Which is the ideal time to do an L.L.M?

    From my personal experience,  I would recommend pursuing LL.M. only after having gained some work experience. I believe a LL.M. programme will be far more beneficial and focused if pursued after a few years of practice.

     

    Please elaborate on your work experience at Clifford Chance.

    The scholarship offered by the Foreign Commonwealth Office comprised two sections. First was a programme at the College of Law, York and second was a work stint at the law firms selected and allotted by them. I was sent to Clifford Chance as part of that programme. Working in a huge law firm like Clifford Chance, which at that time was the biggest law firm globally, was an experience in itself. It gave me the confidence to be able to stand on my own in the midst of an ocean of lawyers. Although I was offered a role in the firm, I longed to return to ALA and declined the offer. I have not regretted my decision ever as I do not think I would have evolved into a risk taking lawyer that I am today if I had worked in the secure confines of a large law firm as opposed to a small boutique firm like ALA.

     

    What or who motivated you to take the leap of faith to found your own law firm?

    DGS Associates owes its existence to ALA and the work culture that we imbibed there. The sense of self sufficiency and independence instilled by Mr. Bhardwaj and Lira gave me the courage to move out and start my own firm. Having worked with ALA since the days when the ALA office was being first set up, I was already familiar with the grind that setting up of a law office entailed. However, the thrill of starting one’s own practice is unparalleled.  

    Although I moved out of ALA with another lawyer there, Niti Sudhakar, we never really severed our ties with ALA. This was easy since we did not try and leave with any existing client of ALA. We moved out without any announcements and started afresh. Admittedly, those were challenging times as we had no continuing client. However, our friendship gave each of us the strength to persevere and that friendship continues to be the central pillar on which DGS stands even today.

     

    With regard to DGS Associates, what is your vision for the firm?

    At DGS, we pride ourselves for being completely relationship driven, be it with our staff, colleagues or clients. We are a small firm with a very congenial atmosphere. We would want to continue with that. We see ourselves as a well entrenched boutique law firm where the client comes never to leave. Our clients treat us as part of their management and we are happy to be in that space. We work with huge corporates as well as mid to small sized companies and individuals. We promote start ups and have always advised them basis the understanding that if they ever get funding they will pay our legal fees. The virtues of strict timelines and economies are deeply entrenched in our work culture and we never miss our deadlines. DGS has a very different work culture where associates are expected to act responsibly and independently. The stress is on timely delivery and quality output rather than the number of hours that they put in at work.

     

    Give us a brief capsule of the life of a partner and your average working day experience.

    True to the spirit of DGS, we try and maintain a balance between our work and personal lives. While we are at work, the office functions almost like a library with very focused work but we try and shut office in good time so that we all can head back home to spend time with our families. Without compromising on our work commitments, the partners also ensure time out together. Increasingly, there is lesser time available with our travel and work commitments but we always make an effort to optimise our time off. The firm has a policy of all lawyers lunching together so as to be able to get to know each other at a personal level.

     

    Is there any other suggestion you would like to give to our budding lawyers?

    I can only say that as budding lawyers give your profession all you have as this is the time when you have the energy and enthusiasm to focus entirely on work. Be open to doing all kinds of work at your work place. It gives you a better appreciation of the work that is happening around you. Most importantly, I always encourage budding lawyers to gain some experience in litigation since you cannot be a complete lawyer  without knowing how your judicial system works and how the judges think when dealing with a given dispute.

     

  • Fred Rooney, Attorney-at-Law, on being Fulbright Specialist and Global Advocate for Justice

    Fred Rooney, Attorney-at-Law, on being Fulbright Specialist and Global Advocate for Justice

    Fred earned his J.D. from the City University of New York’s (CUNY) School of Law in 1986.  In 1998 he returned to CUNY Law to direct a “unique public/private partnership” that offered a network of support and resources for CUNY Law graduates committed to increasing access to justice through their solo and small firm practices. The New York Law Journal, New York Times, Legal Times and American Bar Association Journal have highlighted Fred’s successes and bar associations and law school faculty and administrators across the US rely on Fred’s work when designing their own post-graduate programs.

    In January 2010, Fred was awarded the 2010 Father Robert Drinan Award by the American Association of Law School’s (AALS) and on February 5, 2010, he accepted the American Bar Association (ABA) Standing Committee on the Delivery of Legal Services’ 2010 Louis M. Brown Award for Legal Access, which was awarded to CLRN. The Brown Award recognizes innovative programs that meet the legal needs of those who do not qualify for legal aid yet still aren’t able to afford typical legal fees.

    In June 2013, Fred completed a ten-month Fulbright in the Dominican Republic where he launched the first law school incubator outside of the United States.  Three months later, the American Bar Journal named Fred a “2013 Legal Rebel” and recognized him as “the Father of Incubators”.

    On February 5, 2014, the U.S. Department of State’s Bureau of Educational and Cultural Affairs (ECA) and the Institute of International Education’s Council for International Exchange of Scholars (CIES) added Fred to its roster of Fulbright Specialists.  Since October 2014, he has traveled to Pakistan on four occasions to conceptualize an incubator for recent Pakistani law graduates.  Fred was in Islamabad on April 26, 2016 to take part in the formal launching of the first incubator for lawyers in Asia.  He is currently an adjunct faculty member at Texas A&M University School of Law.

    In this interview we speak to him about:

    • Being Commissioner of the ABA’s Commission on Hispanic Legal Rights & Responsibilities
    • His engagement with Community Legal Resource Network (CLRN)
    • His experience thus far and plans for the future

    Why did you choose to pursue a degree in law, amidst the many options that you had?

    After graduating from college, I was employed as a social worker and English instructor for immigrants.  During my years working with immigrants, I was able to see how difficult life is in a foreign country where immigrants are not always welcome.  Many of my clients/students were victimized by discrimination and racism.  I realized that to be more effective as an advocate for the most marginalized and vulnerable members of my community, I needed to become a lawyer.

     

    Tell us a little about your days in law school, at City University of New York School of Law.

    I was delighted to be accepted to the City University of New York’s inaugural class in 1983.  Many of the reasons I chose CUNY Law are stated on its website.  For example, “CUNY Law students bring a passion to make a difference in their communities”. CUNY Law gives them the tools to make that change. As the nation’s premier public interest law school, we are driven by a mission to enhance the diversity of the legal profession and graduate outstanding attorneys intent on creating change for the better. A CUNY Law education prepares lawyers who are ready to right the wrongs, stand up for the underserved and fight for social justice.

    I thoroughly enjoyed my three years of legal education since as a student, I was able to travel to Latin America, work on issues related to equality in public education, teach juveniles housed in a New York City detention center and  develop the skills I would eventually need to practice law in accordance with CUNY Law mission to further “law in the service of human needs.”

     

    What are the subjects that you took particular interest in, during your law school days?

    I enjoyed CUNY Law’s clinical approach to learning and courses I took in constitutional law, legal reasoning and writing and a course titled “Liberty, Justice & Equality.”

     

    What were your initial years after graduation like?

    Because I chose to practice public service law, my first years after graduation were challenging because my income was so low and I had a family to support.  There were times when I was tempted to enter a corporate firm, but I’m glad that I was able to stay true to my deep commitment to using my education, training and privilege in society to help clients of moderate to low incomes.  I also learned the value of pro bono service and tried to provide either pro bono or reduced-fee services whenever possible.  I learned that to do good in one’s community, you had to do well.  Doing well to do good are not mutually exclusive goals.

     

    Tell us more about Community Legal Resource Network (CLRN) and the kind of activities that it engages in.

    Thirteen years after graduating from CUNY Law, I returned to launch a network for CUNY graduates who, like myself years before, need a helping hand to start law practices with a strong social justice component.  We developed CLRN as a way of supporting our graduates as they opened solo or small firm practices and offered around-the-clock mentoring in how to create economically viable law practices and how to develop one’s professional lawyering skills.

     

    You’ve been designated the “Father of Incubators”. Kindly explain the concept of legal incubators, for the benefit of our readers.

    In response to a crisis in access to civil justice in and around New York City, CUNY Law launched the first program in the nation to train recent law school graduates. Begun in 2007, CUNY’s Incubator for Justice was designed to assist CUNY Law graduates to develop the skills needed to set up and sustain economically viable small legal practices. Special emphasis was placed on developing solo and small-firm practices equipped to address the ever-growing unmet legal needs of moderate to low-income New Yorkers living in legally underserved neighborhoods. The incubator was modeled on similar programs around the nation for small business owners. Business incubators in general aim to assist start-up business owners by providing the training participants need to enhance their professional and business skills.

    The goal of the CUNY incubator was to offer its participants the same sort of training that new associates receive when they join law firms, corporations and governmental or legal services organizations. Once hired, associates receive immediate access to professional training and support, and they have mentors to help with almost every aspect of their professional development. CUNY Law wanted to ensure that its graduates venturing into solo or small-firm practice had the same sort of access to quality training and mentorship as new associates.

    Since the Incubator for Justice was crafted as a stand-alone project for a maximum of ten lawyers, at no point in its development or implementation did anyone imagine that the new initiative would take on a life of its own and turn into a movement in the United States—and eventually abroad. The expansion of incubator programs was due, in large part, to the economic chaos that began in 2008. As law schools, and eventually bar associations, were faced with a severe lack of job opportunities for law graduates and newly admitted lawyers, the idea of creating incubator programs became increasingly more attractive. Additionally, the economic downturn left greater numbers of people in the U.S., already ineligible for publicly funded legal services, without the resources to retain private counsel. In many ways a perfect storm led legal institutions to consider incubator development to fill a sorely needed gap in opportunities for new lawyers and access to competent and affordable representation for people of modest means.

    What legal incubators are doing:

    According to the 2016 Comprehensive Survey of Lawyer Incubators, published by the ABA Standing Committee on the Delivery of Legal Services and the Lawyer Incubator Directory, more than 60 incubator programs exist today. Additionally, the survey indicates the following:

    • Although the first incubator emerged in 2007, three-fourths of them that responded to the survey have been created since 2014. Some of them have very recently “graduated” their first class of incubator participants, and a few have not even reached that point.
    • The nature, structure and design of incubators vary greatly from one program to another. The survey demonstrates that the development of incubators has been organic. There is no template for their design and operations. While many are sponsored by law schools, several are collaborative efforts, and some are sponsored by other entities such as bar associations and foundations, legal aid programs, law firms and nonprofit organizations. The services offered by incubators, the funding sources and the range of legal services provided by the participating lawyers to their clients all vary considerably from one program to another. The ABA and the Consortium for Access to Justice have provided resources to help incubators share information but, nevertheless, programs tend to reflect the needs of both their communities and their participating lawyers in unique and varied ways.
    • Incubators are aggressively advancing social responsibility through pro bono services and orientations to low- and moderate-income populations. The common denominator running through most incubators is their dual mission to prepare recently admitted lawyers to develop and launch new practices while at the same time providing services to underserved populations. Pro bono is a fixture in seven out of every ten programs.
    • Incubators are providing their participating lawyers with an array of educational and practice management tools. In-kind support from legal service vendors enable incubator participants to test-drive a wide variety of resources designed to support their practices, create efficiencies and enable the delivery of services at lower costs.
    • Innovation is stressed in many programs but has room to grow in others. Several of the programs are introducing concepts such as unbundled legal services, niche markets and alternative billing structures, but some focus on more traditional practice methods. This points to an opportunity for the larger community of incubator programs to draw from the resources of one another and suggests that some level of peer-to-peer technical assistance can expand an environment of experimentation.

     

    What motivates you?

    My parents and other family members taught me the value of “giving back” to the community many of the blessings that had been bestowed on me.  When I was young, I always believed that I could change the world.  As I got older, I realized that changing the world wasn’t a realistic goal but helping to change the lives of individuals so that their lives were more rewarding and fruitful was a more achievable goal.  Once I became a lawyer, I quickly found out that lawyers can be catalysts for social change, brokers for justice and equality and valuable members of society when they use their knowledge and skills to ensure the rights of each individual in our community are respected and protected.

     

    Is there something you’d change about the legal education system, if you had the opportunity?

    I believe that law schools have an obligation to do more that simply confer law degrees.  Given the astronomical cost of legal education in the US, law schools should continue to provide education, training and support to its graduates. The Carnegie Foundation’s Report on Educating Lawyers will lend perspective. Law school provides the beginning, not the full development, of students’ professional competence and identity. At present, what most students get as a beginning is insufficient. Students need a dynamic curriculum that moves them back and forth between understanding and enactment, experience and analysis. Law schools face an increasingly urgent need to bridge the gap between analytical and practical knowledge, and a demand for more robust professional integrity. Appeals and demands for change, from both within academic law and without, pose a new challenge to legal education. At the same time, they open to legal education a historic opportunity to advance both legal knowledge—theoretical and practical—and the capacities of the profession. Legal education needs to be responsive to both the needs of our time and recent knowledge about how learning takes place; it needs to combine the elements of legal professionalism—conceptual knowledge, skill and moral discernment—into the capacity for judgment guided by a sense of professional responsibility. Legal education should seek to unite the two sides of legal knowledge: formal knowledge and experience of practice. In particular, legal education should use more effectively the second two years of law school and more fully complement the teaching and learning of legal doctrine with the teaching and learning of practice. Legal education should also give more focused attention to the actual and potential effects of the law school experience on the formation of future legal professionals.

     

    From your experience in legal writing, please share with our readers the kind of topics that one must write on if they hope to gain recognition for their ideas.

    One should write on a topic for which the writer feels a sense of passion.  Writing to help advance one’s passion or commitment to a particular idea or ideal makes writing so much more enjoyable.  An article that I wrote for an American Bar Association publication on how pro bono work produces good karma was easy to do because the contents of the article flowed from my life experiences and from my heart.  The written word, when used for the right purpose, can be a powerful tool to espouse one’s beliefs, as seen through social media, and to advance the idea of using law as a tool to advance liberty, justice and equality in any society.

     

    What do your responsibilities involve, as Commissioner of the ABA’s Commission on Hispanic Legal Rights & Responsibilities?

    The mission of the ABA’s Commission on Hispanic Rights and Responsibilities to address the challenges and responsibilities facing Hispanics in and within the legal system of the United States.  It strives to accomplish the following:

    1. To provide expertise and resources to develop partnerships among internal and external constituencies of the ABA in order to address the legal issues, that are common to other underserved populations, but within the context of the experiences of Hispanics throughout the United States.
    2. Propose solutions and approaches for the legal profession to meet the opportunities and challenges of the Hispanic community that are exacerbated by such factors as, but not limited to, rapid population growth; language; citizenship and immigration constraints.
    3. Monitor and promote policies that address the unique legal challenges and responsibilities facing Hispanics in the United States.
    4. Develop and support community education efforts, in both English and Spanish, to inform Hispanics about their legal rights and responsibilities on key legal issues such as employment, housing, education, health care, criminal justice, voting rights, and immigration.
    5. Create and advance models through the development of tool kits, social media and communication methodology to transform judicial constructs, legal structures and infrastructures to better address the needs of Hispanic communities, particularly in the areas of language and access to education, employment, and improved public images.

     

    Is there any other suggestion you would like to give to our budding lawyers?

    As the Quaker missionary Stephen Grellet once said, “I expect to pass through this world but once; any good thing therefore that I can do or any kindness I can show to any fellow creature, let me do it now. Let me not defer or neglect it for I shall not pass this way again.”

    As lawyers, we have the potential to engage in the ongoing creation of a world that truly strives to embrace the notion that all men and women are created equal and therefore deserve to be treated as such.  Helping to improve the lives of the most vulnerable members of our community, while also ensuring that we are able to adequately support ourselves and our families, will make the practice of law more analogous to a vocation than to a profession and will inevitably make that world a better place in which to live.

     

  • Deepika Raikwar, Regional Legal Manager-North, Hindustan Unilever Limited, on life at NLIU and IIM, and her experience

    Deepika Raikwar, Regional Legal Manager-North, Hindustan Unilever Limited, on life at NLIU and IIM, and her experience

    Deepika Raikwar graduated from NLIU, Bhopal, in 2006. She then went on to pursue her Masters in Business Management from IIM, Kozhikode with a focus on Strategy and Marketing. She has worked with companies like TATA AIG as an Assistant Manager, Max Bupa Health Insurance Company Ltd. as Manager Legal and Aviva Life Insurance Company as the Senior Manager. In December 2014 she started working for Hindustan Unilever Limited as its Northern Region Legal Manager where her practice is focused upon Consumer Protection, taxation, food and safety law.

    In this interview we speak to her about:

    • Marrying law with management
    • Interning at Yahoo!
    • Her diverse experience

    Tell us something about yourself, apart from your profession. 

    I am an adventure sports enthusiast with a keen interest for understanding world cultures.  Living with a motto of making each minute count, I have couch surfed and hosted people from nearly half the world. I have an eclectic choice in music from a thumri to a psychedelic trance, and everything in between. I generally like to take life easy; only when I’m not working, of course!

     

    What made you choose law as a career?

    The smell of old books, lateral thinking, and fascination for courtroom dramas.

     

    Tell us about your time at NLIU Bhopal.

    Being a first generation lawyer and belonging to one of the first few batches of NLIU (and literally having no placement data/ record or assurance) it felt like subscribing to a much hyped IPO. The jitters and vulnerability were overwhelming for the first few days. The old campus was a small building in a jungle, which made me reconsider my choice many times. But soon it became a milestone in my memory to be a part of the transformation story of NLIU, Bhopal. The campus moved to the new education block while I was in my second year and the new library was also inaugurated. Voila! From a dull and boring life, the campus suddenly transformed into a much talked about hub. The new campus won us over, new batches came in, great friendships were discovered. We had a lot of fun, but the curriculum was equally challenging. 

    The level of exposure and education is and has always remained very structured in NLUs. The trimester pattern gets the rigour going in the right direction. I am impressed by the level of extracurricular activities people get exposed to in law schools these days along with academics, though back then we had fewer choices and avenues. The level of competition is also much higher,which makes every graduate an adept legal professional.

     

    How much do you recommend pursuing MBA after LL.B?

    MBA+LLB is a great combination, especially if you want to excel in the corporate/ commercial/ start-up space. It always helps one switch between roles and have a larger economic and legal perspective on a global scale. Anyway, what’s the point if you do not understand the other side of the story? How can one think through business when every product, business idea, or operations of a venture is riddled with legal challenges. In fact, many sectors are/ were heavily regulated. I felt a person wearing multiple hats of legal aptitude and business understanding would be able to offer effective solutions as opposed to a plain vanilla approach. Also, CAT was quite sought after and I certainly wanted to crack it. 

    MBA is a great course, which certainly empowers one to think in a larger context by breaking through the stereotypical legal mind-set and is totally recommended for people who want to do different things differently. One should just be mindful of the ground reality. There are very few sectors which can offer combination profiles and cross functional exposure wherein one can use both sets of learning and skills. Typically, the trends are indicative of niche jobs being claimed by combination profiles, and this may result in very few possible change or movement options in the long term.

     

    Tell us about being a Management Trainee for Yahoo!

    It was an interesting hybrid internship for me. Yahoo! offered a project based role where I was working on a few yet to be launched products to evaluate them legally and to partner the technical team to build up the business case and later ideate on the product specifications along with their think tank. The culture was so strikingly different that in my induction session with the CEO, the gentleman in a floral shirt and shorts assured me it was acceptable to dress casually and told me it was okay to remove my jacket if I wanted to. The law firm internships were equally exciting, though intensely formal.

     

    Tell us about your experience with TATA AIG.

    TATA AIG was my campus recruiter from IIM, Kozhikode. Joining an insurance MNC as a management associate exposed me to various interesting profiles like Marketing, Business strategy, and finally gave me an opportunity to try my hand at Financial Product Manufacturing. The profile is mentally stimulating and requires a thorough understanding of the regulatory frameworks, finance and advance contract drafting skills. The insurance market leader, was surely on an aggressive plan to expand their national and international product portfolio. I was lucky enough that my first job was very demanding and stressful and I got the support and guidance of some very fine leaders.

     

    How would you describe your experience Aviva Life Insurance Company?

    Aviva Life exposed me to a large scale life insurance set up with all kinds of legal and business challenges. I also got great exposure to M&A from the strategic and legal side and totally enjoyed leading a very high potential team.

     

    How was your experience with Max Bupa Health Insurance Company Ltd? 

    I got exposure setting up the health insurance business in India while the industry was just about a start-up. It is an interesting field and requires a deep understanding of healthcare, human physiology, and medicine. The product development and drafting is a complicated process as healthcare sector in itself is changing every day. To draft and make a futuristic product which is market ready, and sustain the test of scrutiny of the regulator is a quite a task.

     

    Tell us about your role as Regional Legal Manager, North, for Hindustan Unilever Ltd.

    Unilever is a world in itself, every category has multiple brands and the scale of manufacturing and distribution is massive. There is a variety of issues to be handled from business to litigation, IPR, generic strategy. The best part about the work is the complete freedom it offers. The organization loves creativity and would never restrict any one to a particular ‘role’ or profile. The avenues of growth are varied. This imparts dynamism and empowers the next generation of leadership. My immediate goal is to lead a world class legal team and empower my people to grow well, both in the organization and in profession.

     

    There exists a huge debate with regard to being an in-house counsel versus a law firm counsel. What is your opinion on such a comparison?

    I think this debate’s existence per se is a loss of one’s focus. The right debate to have in one’s mind is how to excel in whatever you choose to do. There are different skill sets which the two profiles would certainly impart. It is completely the individual’s prerogative. 

     

    How would you suggest a law student should plan his/her career if he/she wishes to join the legal department of any company?

    Just be very good with whatever you study and do. The keenness to learn and the consistency to perform is the success mantra to be ‘employable’ in an organization. What matters most is persistence, perseverance, and the ability to think quick. This would certainly help not only to have a rewarding career, but a sorted life in general. There is no special preparation required; one should just be good with the basic subjects.

     

    Any other parting advice to our readers?

    There is nothing called preparation, it is just about changing habits to get an impact. My only share of personal experience would be read more, work hard, party harder, and stay focused.