What inspired you to pursue a career in Cyber Security and Technology Law?
I have in most part of my career been engaged with leading industry verticals which are prone to high risk, BFSI being prominent amongst them. Risk management has been one of the primary focus for most senior executives in any form, be it operational risk, credit risk, compliance risk, security and fraud risks and so on. Given the fact that I have been a Banker and also spent a decade with technology coupled with a background in law, this only got better with changing digitization trends. Emerging technologies paved way for a deeper engagement that prompted me to move towards Cyber Law and Cyber Risk Management.
What challenges have you faced while working in this field?
As our risk advisory committee comprises of risk management professionals and domain experts from Insurance and technology, we undertook extensive research on modelling in Cyber Risk Assessment & Quantification. The initial years were quite enriching in terms of brain racking sessions on conceptualizing the idea.
Some of the challenges we faced were to identify the key points that could bring stakeholders from diverse industries on a common understanding of Cyber Risk Assessment, Quantification, pricing and claims management. Our key stakeholders are Insurers, Reinsurers, Breach Response Vendors, Cyber lawyers and Corporates.
Cybercat is an outcome of extensive research in Cyber Risk Modelling, Can you explain?
This is a non-linear model to quantify cyber exposure more accurately with a very “low error margin”. Organizations can undertake assessment and quantify cyber for catastrophic events, which will assist different stakeholders within the organization namely management, operations, legal, finance and technology to understand business impact and thereby mitigate risk with policy and technical measures or by way of risk transfer to insurers (Cyber Insurance). The model provides a mechanism to price Cyber risks for Insurance industry.
What do you consider to be the biggest challenge of Cyber Security and Technology Law?
An organization’s major challenge would be to ensure cyber security culture with a top-down approach across the organization. It is important to understand three principal components of cyber risk which is operational, reputational and litigation risks and ensure greater degree of compliance. The enterprise information security policy should be enforced, delegated and implemented in true spirit. The driving force behind any cyber security program is its leadership and it sets precedence for the organization. Cyber-attacks revolve mostly around the “human angle”. While technology may provide a pathway they have to be handled efficiently as cyber governance, risk and compliance play a pivotal role in addressing these risks.
What do you think are the most important skills needed to be successful in this field?
The field is wide open and there are many avenues today, most disciplines have branched out giving great opportunities . Some of the skills that are required for a career in this field are Cyber security engineering, Network security, incident forensics analysis, Data Architecture, problem solving skills and threat hunting analysis.
What advice would you give to someone considering a career in Cyber Security and Technology Law?
There will be a huge demand for candidates such as Cyber security specialists, Information security experts, Forensics experts, Privacy specialists, cyber insurance specialists, and Cyber dedicated lawyers in the coming years.
How have you seen the landscape of Cyber Security and Technology Law evolve over the years and what new opportunities it can bring for people in this field?
The quantum of cyber-attacks has leaped over the years exponentially. All countries throughout the world are focussed towards having a National Cyber Security policy and data protection laws. There are few countries that have exhaustive laws while some countries are yet to have comprehensive laws. The onus now shifts to corporates as measures are required for regulatory compliances without which having regulations is simply defunct. This again will bring plethora of opportunities to legal, Information security and technology specialists or those with techno-legal qualifications as corporates would need specialists to fulfil compliance requirements.
What do you mean by Strategic Cyber Risk Assessment? and How does C-level executives benefit from the Assessment?
Every organization today is in some state of fear of getting hit by a Cyber-attack, be it Malware, Ransomware or data exfiltration etc. While in most entities it is the technology that adheres to most of these technical processes it is important for the Senior Management to understand cyber and its impact to business. Cybercat provides C-Level Cyber Risk Assessment at a macro level for executives to get a broader view of Cyber Risk for their organization.
This will assist senior executives to get first-hand information about organization’s cyber posture and the monetary value at risk. This can further succour in the overall cyber program envisaged by the top leadership in making it a cyber resilient organization.
What do you think is the most important thing to consider when it comes to protecting a company’s digital assets?
Every organization should have an inventory of digital and physical assets and also have a tracking mechanism of inventories. There are a few things that should be part of mandatory company Asset and data protection policies such as protection of digital assets, viz, password management, Multi factor authentication; Role based access, Encryption and back-up of data. Centralized digital asset management is also used by industry to manage digital assets.
What are some of the easiest ways of conducting litigation and risk assessment?
There are multiple ways of conducting Risk Assessments remotely, let me differentiate between Cyber and Non-Cyber Risk Assessments.
The other forms of assessment which are core technical would comprise of Vulnerability Assessment and Penetration testing and Red team assessments.
Non Cyber or Non technology risks have a different objective as they deal with Directors and Officers Liability, Crime Insurance and Professional Indemnity and Contract Risk. They would also need a detailed ERM (Enterprise Risk Management) with specific questionnaires crafted around the key areas to understand the time value of legal dispute and probable loss estimates.
According to you, what are the most important steps a company should take to ensure its Cyber Security and Technology Law compliance?
Here are couple of key steps that I can think of:
There is an impending need for a strong leadership focus on cyber security.
An organization has to drive the cyber security change to create greater awareness and a sense of responsibility amongst their human resources.
Organization should have a greater understanding of their systems, network and data and undertake Business Impact assessment to guard against risks and quantify damages.
Organizations should evaluate their existing versus newer technologies and put a layered protection to combat cyber-attacks.
Organization should consider frequent assessments to find the vulnerabilities and take mitigation actions.
The legal team should be proactive in determining the risks related to their organization’s business profile.
Last but not the least having a Cyber Risk mitigation plan is inevitable for all organizations to not just understand risk but also to take measures to bring down cyber incidences.
Lastly, any 5 best pieces of advice for our young law professionals?
Today’s young law professionals are so dynamic that they don’t need any advice. Yet here are a few things which I suggest out of my experience:
Law is an ever changing field and hence one needs to be an all-rounder.
Law professionals should look at widening their horizon during their academic stint besides trying to acquire practical knowledge through internships all through the course.
Law professionals should keep track of multiple sectors and understand the changes that are happening in each sector. While one need not be a specialist in everything, but keeping tab of things always helps in creating niche area of practice over a period of time.
As there is no perfect solution for anything and only possible options one should ideally think from a future point of view and visualize possible solutions.
Young lawyers should ensure to write good legal pieces and publish them in reputed law journals to add credibility and value to their profile which will go a long way in building and establishing their reputation as a subject matter expert over years.
Tell us a bit about your work life, your dreams, and your aspirations.
‘Don’t try to minimize your struggles. Try to make it more meaningful.’
As a law firm management consultant, there is no room for a dull day. A blend of business management and people management initiatives is what usually keeps me occupied during my day. From assisting law firms in brand-building exercises to handling numerous HR initiatives, my day at work revolves around dealing with multiple roles. I usually say this out of fun that the job of a law firm management consultant is no less than an ‘Actor’ because we play multiple roles during our tenure and each role requires different skill sets and a deep understanding of the character.
If we talk about dreams and aspirations, ‘I don’t have dreams, I have goals’ (quoting Harvey Spector from ‘Suits’, an American sitcom).
Adding value, providing rational solutions, assisting law firms in developing their practice, and taking the firms to the next level of growth are a few of my goals as a professional. I believe in the approach of ‘Pragmatism’ and my focus is always on overcoming obstacles for my clients.
Personally, I always aspire to live a balanced life, giving equal importance to my professional journey and personal aspirations. I believe in the strategy of building small targets, conquering them, and moving on to the next one.
To sum up, one day at a time.
Do you reckon any incident motivated you to choose law as a career?
‘Law just happened to me.’
I will be honest, Law as a career never happened to me with any professional desire of being a lawyer.
I remember, when I was in the last semester of my graduation, every other classmate had a plan for either pursuing higher studies from a foreign university, or appearing for MBA exams, competitive exams, etc. And I was just a curious lad with no plans. That’s when I was introduced to the 3-year LLB program conducted by Delhi University by one of my seniors.
But I ended up taking admission to Amity University’s 3-year LLB program not because I was not able to crack DU’s LLB exam (no offense to anyone) but because I happen to get a chance to participate in a band competition before ending my last semester (yes, I am a guitarist too) in Amity University and I was astonished by the campus, which resulted in appearing for Amity’s LLB exam and interview, I cracked it (like many others) and did not appear for my Delhi University exam.
So, to answer your question, I think my irrational decisions motivated me to choose Law as a career.
How did you decide to leave the world of traditional law and pursue your current role at Legal League Consulting, an Indian management consultancy for the global legal industry?
“We always have choices. No one’s ever stuck. We are just scared to make those choices.”
Being a first-generation lawyer, my curiosity to explore the opportunities available in the market for a lawyer made me do ten (10) internships (yes, that’s a lot for a 03-year program student). From interning in district court to a Tier-1 law firm, PSU, NGO, start-up, you name it, I would have done it.
Even after exploring the legal market, I was skeptical about the career path I want to follow after attaining my LLB degree but all the internships definitely helped me realize what career paths are not a right fit for me.
It was because of this unstoppable desire of exploring the opportunities that I met, Bithika Anand, Founder & CEO of Legal League Consulting (LLC), and Mr. Nipun K. Bhatiaa, President of Legal League Consulting (LLC), during one of my internships who introduced me to the world of law firm management.
But my stars had a different plan initially and I got a campus placement at Ernst & Young (E&Y). I learned the craft of forensic investigations for almost 2.5 years and got the opportunity to be part of a few major fraud investigations in the country during my tenure before joining India’s first law firm management consultancy.
One fine day Mr. Bhatiaa informed me about an opportunity at LLC but being totally unaware of the field I did not opt for it initially. Regardless of not opting for the opportunity, the law firm management domain kept intriguing me. As a result, I did a lot of research and interacted with other lawyers on LinkedIn who were on the same road, and eventually, after almost a year, I made a choice, and here I am.
Law Firm Management has been talked about in the legal industry, but we would love to know from you what exactly this practice area entails. How can law students prepare themselves for a niche role like this?
‘Let Lawyers do the lawyering. Rest, we will handle.’
From practice development initiatives to building brand perception, from building the best practices for managing the human resources in a firm to building synergies between law firms for better growth and opportunities, from constructing social media strategy to developing knowledge management programs, all come under the umbrella of law firm management practice.
To answer your question on how a law student can prepare for a niche role like this, sadly, as of now, our law curriculum does not include law firm management as a subject, which I suppose will change in the near future.
I believe if a student is eager to learn the nuances of law firm management, then the practical experience of learning is a must. Nothing can beat the power of networking and one can start building a habit of networking at a very early stage. Further, a student can develop certain skill sets including (but not limited to) graphic designing, legal content writing, social media marketing, public speaking, etc. which can work as an added advantage while stepping into the world of law firm management.
In the past, you have worked at Ernst & Young, where you specialised in Forensic Investigation. We would like to know what Forensic Investigation entails and what are some of the skill sets necessary for law students to pursue this niche area of practice.
Ernst & Young was a great learning experience where I witnessed the world of forensic investigations or as I say, ‘The world of Sherlock Homes’. Forensic investigation entails investigating corporate fraudulent activities and commercial threats to organizational integrity. Conducting marketing intelligence, reviewing financial and other relevant documents, interviewing custodians, etc. form part of forensic investigation.
If one is willing to build a career in the field of forensic investigation, I would suggest focusing on laws related to fraud, bribery & corruption, and data privacy which include (but are not limited to) the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act (FCPA), UK Bribery Act and Prevention of Corruption Act (PCA). Having said that, practical experience is irreplaceable and I strongly suggest investing time in learning the practical nuances along with developing theoretical knowledge.
Finally, any advice for young professionals wanting to get into areas of practice like yours?
“The challenging part is in the beginning; it’s a leap of faith. But I think the most important thing is to just do it. Start.” – Tom Szaky
Law firm management is a road that is less traveled and I still remember having doubts when I decided to follow my instincts and opt for law firm management as my career option. But down the line, I have realized that patience is the key.
I always suggest to the young professional to focus on developing a skill set that can help in solving a problem. One can be good at writing content or one can have great designing skills or one can be great at building a network. The key is one needs to find how to be useful.
The law firm management profession is a roller coaster ride with its constant ups and downs. Keep a good attitude along the road, and life will always find a way.
Failures or setbacks should not discourage you. Never shy away from making a change and always follow your instincts. Work hard, but also enjoy the process alongside. Most importantly, focus on adding value and being useful.
As a professional, there will be moments of burnout. Always have at least one hobby. Your hobby will act as your best friend and will pull you up during your downtime’s. I prefer plucking my guitar strings and playing cricket on weekends which is my stress buster and boost me up to start afresh.
Explore all your interests during your time in college without any second thoughts. Your marks are important but they will not be the only deciding factor for your growth.
We ask this question to almost everyone, but ma’am looking at your experiences, I would like to flip it a little bit, how did law choose you?
I come from a family of lawyers, judges, and professors. I think ‘law’ chose me before I was even born. From an early age, I used to sit with my grandfather and used to observe the trials he used to preside over. Also, during my studies in history in my undergraduate course, I realized how a society’s nature is modeled and governed by the legal system that it has. This realization got me interested in exploring law as a professional carrier for myself. The campus law Center, university of Delhi helped me understand law and brush up on my legal and oratory skills.
What were the struggles you faced in the beginning?
By ‘beginning’ I believe you mean the beginning of my legal career. I think the biggest struggle is coping with the rigorous work routine and keeping on doing what you like the most. I was always passionate about teaching, so along with my practice, I kept on teaching at Delhi University, IP University, Bennet University, and Sewa Samarpan Samiti, which is an NGO based in India. I think this helped me pursue my dream with passion.
Firstly, a big congratulations on starting “Accords International”. Do you mind sharing some obstacles that might come in the way of being a founder at any firm?
You know I have started to believe in what Elon Musk once said, “starting a company is like eating glass and staring into the abyss”. It is a difficult task to build a company, run it, and earn profits with it. My biggest challenge was to find like-minded people to work with and constitute a team that creates a conducive environment. I have been fortunate to finally find an amazing group of team members. I am liking every bit of it. No doubt you are wearing a crown of thorns, but you are your own boss. Accords International works in mediation and restorative justice. Both these fields are new to India and clients and colleagues are still learning. We provide mediation and restorative services and training regularly.
When we talk about disputes, most of the time obviously the parties commit the same number of mistakes, and both suffer as well, before even going for conflict resolution, don’t you think there is something out before that?
In the event of a disagreement, it is often that the situation escalates to a conflict and then the parties take the matter to the court as a dispute. If the lawyers and other professionals who advise the parties during the initial stages have a non-adversarial mindset, then disputes can be avoided, and disagreements can be amicably settled at very early stages. This is beneficial for all, the clients, the lawyers, the courts, and the society.
As someone who has also specialized in cybercrimes, bullying, etc, what are the core reasons that these things happen and any unconventional ways to stop the harm?
Dan Olweus defines simple bullying as ‘unwanted aggressive behavior that is intentional and that involves an imbalance of power. Most often it is repeated over time. If this is done via an electronic device, then that makes sit cyber-bullying.
The four Elements of Bullying are- Aggressive Behavior, Power Imbalance, Repeated act, and the players (Perpetrator and victim). If we add a computer, cell phone, and any other electronic device to traditional bullying that will make it cyberbullying.
The common types of cyberbullying and their reasons are:
Exclusion- Publicly Ostracizing the target from the online world- Possible reason is to make the target vulnerable and lonely.
Flaming- posting personal insults and vulgar texts- possible reasons are power play and intent to humiliate the target.
Impersonation- pretending to be someone else. – possible reason can be entertainment or fraud
Cyberstalking- using the internet and technology to follow someone- (harassment, stalking, revenge, fascination, show-off)
Trolling- to deliberately provoke others- (attention seeking, revenge, boredom, personal amusement, paid by someone else)
Accords International is working on a model for dealing with cyberbullying and online harm with the help of restorative justice. Teachers, parents, and school management can use restorative practices like regular restorative circles and non-violent communications to de-escalate conflicts at early stages.
What are the necessary skills to have as a “Trained Mediator”?
As a mediator, one learns
To facilitate a conversation between two disputing parties.
To be objective,
To be impartial,
To be an effective communicator,
To feel empathetic, patient, adaptable,
To be trustworthy,
To understand the psychology of conflict,
To be able to distinguish interests and needs and
To become a better negotiator.
“Unconventional careers in law will spoil your degree”, why has this misconception led many people far away from the legal industry revolution and how to excel oneself to reach heights?
I think this advice worked in the previous century. Today, we live in a world where lawyers are working in tech policy, AI, cyberspace, Outer space, public policy, sustainability, diplomacy, and many other ‘unconventional’ fields. I think law teachers and colleges should update their curriculum on a regular basis and students should not only be exposed to court proceedings but also to the newer developments around the world. Accords International is working with the vision to make such experiences available to Indian students.
Lastly Upasana, any advice to level up the skill game in this profession?
I find reading is very important for lawyers to always keep updated and informed. Also, skill-building courses in mediation, drafting, negotiation, tech policy, etc are important to learn about new fields. Accords International has launched its next mediation training for the months of January-February 2023. Training programs like this keep young professionals updated and connected.
Tell us about yourself and what inspired you to pursue a career in corporate law?
I am born and brought up in Delhi. Despite being amongst the toppers in my school, I was not sure what I wanted to pursue professionally. I took up Biology with Maths in XIIth in order to keep my options open. After passing out of school, still unsure of what I wanted to do, I zeroed in on studying Business Administration on a whim, as I did not want to pursue medicine or engineering, which was the most opted for career option back then.
It was during graduation days that I discovered my love for law when I was introduced to Business Laws as a subject. I also realized then that my natural personality traits were aligned with being a lawyer, when I used my skills to negotiate and convince my Professors and HODs to help my friends who ran into trouble with them for multiple reasons.
Of course, being amongst the good books of my teachers helped to a certain extent in that.
This naturally progressed into me opting for law when I cracked Delhi University’s entrance exam and studied law in the prestigious Campus Law Centre. Thereafter, I was a practising lawyer for a few years before I chose to move In-House with a Company.
During my very enriching stint as a first-generation lawyer, where apart from handling cases for individuals, I also got to work closely with several Companies while handling their litigations and arbitrations, I got fascinated by the multi-faceted workings of a Company and the various factors that played part in assisting the top-management take crucial business decisions.
This piqued my interest in corporate law, and life came a full circle when Business Laws subject in BBA helped me discover my inclination towards law, and after practising law and building my base in understanding the workings of a court, I moved In-House.
What are some of the most challenging aspects of your job as an In-House Counsel?
Law is a demanding profession, and whether you are a practising lawyer or an In-House Counsel, every day comes with new challenges, and with each challenge, comes a new opportunity. To pin-point the most challenging aspects would be difficult, as every day is different.
The job is to assist the Company in all legal affairs, and it can involve anything and everything under the Sun.
A regular day as an In-House counsel involves a wide spectrum of activities ranging from handling aspects of general corporate advisory, looking after the litigations of the Company, interacting with external lawyers for the same, attending matters, drafting and red-lining of pleadings and agreements, negotiating on closing deals for the Company, briefing senior counsels, interacting with several departments for assisting them in dealing with regular operational issues and commercial transactions, and so on and so forth.
Simply put, the challenge is to align business objectives with the legal standpoint to the best benefit of the stakeholders, both internal and external, but that is also where the fun lies.
What strategies do you use to stay abreast of legal developments in the corporate world?
Frankly, I found it easier to stay abreast of the latest developments in law when I was a practising lawyer, as daily interactions with colleagues outside Courtrooms while waiting on matters to reach would organically help in exchanging new information.
I did not realize the importance of relevant information just coming to you without you making conscious efforts towards the same. It is a tad bit tougher for an In-house counsel and it requires conscious efforts to stay abreast with the new developments, both in the dynamics of law and business.
My learnings from my practise days is what works for me in staying aware of the new developments in the corporate world.
Just that my casual chats with my colleagues outside courtrooms is now replaced with interactions with my colleagues from various departments of the Company, who enlighten me with their knowledge and new developments in their respective fields, and collectively, that gives me a bird’s-eye view of developments in the corporate world.
Thereafter, my curiosity about the new information pushes me to read extensively on the new developments from a legal standpoint, and as a legal professional, the research skills acquired during my internship and practice days help a great extent in gathering the relevant knowledge.
Now we are all surrounded by legal tech tools that help in contract drafting and in so many other forms as well, how do you see these tools changing the world of lawyers? What do you think the future of corporate law when AI and the role of legal tech is added on as well?
These tools are contributing a huge deal in reducing the burden on lawyers. The contract drafting tech tools save up on a lot of time by giving a format to start with. The same, of-course, has to be worked on to suit the specific needs and requirements of the business, and in my view, the legal expertise in doing so cannot be replaced by the Artificial Intelligence behind these tools.
Besides contract drafting tech tools, there are several other tech tools that help manage the MIS of the multiple litigation’s in a Company and helps In-House counsel in keeping a track of the matters. These tech tools also help in providing data for analyzing the reports for strategizing plans and actions of handling various matters. I see these tools as very important helping hands in assisting lawyers and In-House counsels to work in a more effective and efficient manner.
What do you consider to be the most important skill for a successful In-House Counsel, and any roadmaps for the same?
I am still learning new skills every day, and I think the quest to keep learning is the most important skill for a successful legal professional, whether In-House Counsel or a practising lawyer.
Apart from that, what I have learnt till now is that it is important to put your thoughts into actions. As lawyers, we develop the skill to formulate multiple strategies and plan of actions, but it is crucial to execute the plans in a timely manner to suit the needs of a fast-paced environment of a Company. I feel there is no fixed roadmap for the same, and all ways to achieve the same are the right ways, given one is consistent, conscientious, and persistent towards it.
Harsha, what do you consider to be the most rewarding part of your job?
I consider the contentment I derive after a good day’s work where I feel that I contributed towards meeting the Company’s objectives and assisting the various business functions in taking important business decisions, as the most rewarding part of my job.
Lastly, any 4 pieces of advice for our young law generation.
Law is an intellectually rewarding field and is an extremely demanding one as well. It is important to understand that in this field, knowledge is power, and the learning is never-ending.
A few of my learnings that I would like to share for young professionals:
Go to Courts. I know Corporate Law has been glamorized enough with the multiple perks it comes with as compared to the challenges one faces as a practising lawyer, but I cannot stress enough on knowing the basic functioning of courts before joining a Company as an In-House counsel. The courts are where all the action is, and the learnings you gather there will help you in the longer run. Once you know the drill, you would not be taken for a ride by others, and you would be a better asset to the Company. Your initial few years as a practising lawyer would also give you clarity on which industry appeals to you.
Take responsibility. That’s the way you learn at the beginning of your career. There could be days when you could not present your case before court, because the clerk did not reach on time with the file, or any such fiasco. It helps to internalize the situation instead of pushing the blame on others. Analyse what you could have done better to avoid the situation, learn, and not repeat in future. Pushing on the blame or justifying yourself before your senior would only stagnate your individual growth, while taking complete responsibility would make you adept at better handling such practical problems that you may face.
Don’t be afraid to fail. A cliché, but your failures will teach you more than your successes.
While we are students, exams are held once or twice annually, but once you are a professional, every day is an exam, minus the syllabus. So brace yourselves for the challenges, and have fun while at it.
How would you like to introduce yourself to our readers?
Hi, I am Ashirbad, and I am currently a Lecturer at O P Jindal Global University. I love to paint and sketch. You would always find me humming to Sufi music or Eminem, there is no in between. I have a black belt in karate, I used to run 10Ks during my Masters, and most of my free time during the work week is spent watching Instagram reels about puppies, or NFL and UFC matches. And, when I have vacations, I backpack across remote but picturesque destinations.
Why did you choose to pursue a degree in law after your Class 12 Boards?
Didn’t really have much of a choice. I was a PCMB student during my 11th and 12th. It was not my cup of tea. I had a disastrous JEE and AIPMT. The only option that I had was CLAT. AIPMT ended on 3rd May, CLAT was on 10th May. I prepared what I could within that and showed up for the exam. Quite fortunately, things have been on a upward trajectory ever since.
Tell us a little about your days in NLU Odisha?
I had the time of my life in NLUO. When I joined there really were no campus placements, only a few batches had graduated, no one really gave us guys a shot. So, we as the students, had to build up a fair bit of the institution that it has become, ourselves. Beyond the professional or academic front, I met my closest friends there, I am very fortunate that the friends I had in first year of law school, are still my friends.
I learnt karate from Akshay, who used to live in the room next to me. I learnt how to write papers from some of my seniors there. Vegadarshi taught me a lot about how to be a Speaker for a moot. More than anything, everyday was a laugh riot in the place. I wouldn’t trade those days for anything
How did you narrow down on NLU Odisha specifically to pursue your undergraduate legal studies?
Again, didn’t really have much of a choice. I got through to TNNLS in the third round of CLAT counselling. Two and a half months later, there was a vacancy at NLUO, I applied and got through. The first two months were ludicrously challenging. I was the last guy in, I had joined after the mid-sems had gotten over, I had no clue what to do. Fortunately, I persisted, and things worked themselves out. I often say that the greatest things in my life have happened to me by accident, CLAT, NLUO, my friends, St Catharine’s, and they have had the best impact on me.
What were the activities, academic or otherwise, that you undertook in your law school days which in your opinion have shaped you and your career?
Plenty of them. I had a finger in every pie. From college committees, to moots, to papers, conferences, academics, debates, MUNS, I was involved with everything. I am generally quite outgoing, and I made full use of whatever avenues NLUO offered. It went beyond just building a career, and the academic knowledge I gained from them.
I have always prided on being able to don multiple hats at the same time and juggle multiple things successfully. They have proved to be quite beneficial in life, in general. I knew everyone on campus from the Vice Chancellor to the guards manning the gate.
Quite fortunately, they all got to know pretty well. That kind of connection is invaluable. It teaches you a lot about fostering and maintaining relationships with people from all walks of life and being a reliable person for them.
I am particularly proud of the work that I did as the Co-Convenor the College’s Internship Committee, along with Mridul, my Convenor. We lead a team of 10 students, and in our time span, we broke the record of the number of internships that NLUO had ever obtained in a calendar year by a wide margin. We took the total from 4 in the previous year to 59 in our term.
What kind of internships did you engage in during your undergraduate student years which you feel were invaluable to you in reaching your current position?
I interned at mostly data protection and general corporate teams of law firms. The most significant of them would be the two stints I had at Khaitan & Co, Kolkata, in the Corp A team with Mr Supratim Chakraborty. I had a blast working with him. I learnt so much from him, Shourya Da, Risa, Pratik Sir and a whole host of other people. I have really good memories of my time there.
You had been an all rounder in NLU Odisha, because of which you were bestowed with the ‘Shri Bichitrananda Mahanty Gold Medal’. How did you manage your academics, co-curricular and extra-curricular activities at the same time?
I used every available minute that I had, and I was as efficient I could be. It was a constant drive to be the very best version of myself. I was always occupied with something or the other. And I enjoyed doing it. No one forced me to do those things, I have always been naturally inclined to set high goals and see if I can achieve them. Being engaged in so many things also kept me focused and on track. That and an aptitude to work hard. There is no substitute for the latter. In a way, it was preparation for the future, beyond the limitations of law school. That being said, it was not all work though, I made sure to have enough time to kick back and relax with my friends.
You had been National Winner and Octa-Finalist of several Indian and International Moot Court Competition. Kindly share your experience as a successful mooter of NLU Odisha.
I have only done two moots the Oxford Price Media Moot Court and NUJS HSF Moot Court. Quite fortunately I performed well in them both. Price Media 2018 was the first moot that I ever did, and I spent a year working on it. Within that time span, I did not pick up any other assignment or co-curricular activity. We managed to reach the Octa-Finals of the World Rounds and were also adjudged as the Runners-up of the South Asian Rounds. We were the first team from NLUO to qualify for the Worlds in that competition.
The next year, I took part in HSF, and it was a month of pure sleeplessness. It had some of the most thrilling rounds I have ever been a part of, and we were adjudged as the Winners of the competition.
Again, we were the first team from our college to win the competition. Of course, along the way for both the competitions we received a tremendous amount of support from friends, alumni and college resources. The only thing I had in mind while preparing for Price Media was to be the very best Speaker I could possibly be, I had always been a debater and never a moot court Speaker, so the transition had some growing pains.
The secret sauce for success in a moot is to form a team with people you are comfortable working with. That, and a tremendous amount of hard work and sacrifice.
You had an accomplished record of publishing at renowned journals from publishers like Thomson Reuters, Eastern Book Company, Wolters Kluwer and famous dailies like that of The Indian Express, The Daily Guardian, The Statesman, Deccan Herald, just to name a few. Kindly share your experience of writing papers and articles for the journals and dailies.
I have always liked to write, so I expanded upon that in law school. I started off with nascent steps, publishing in online blogs and journals, until I garnered enough experience that I felt I could write for reputed publishers. Newspaper articles are always fun, as they are short, precise and reach a much larger audience.
The books or articles that I have published with the aforementioned publishers, were based on strenuous academic research, structured in a manner that was scholarly to merit publication, but, at the same time engaging enough to keep the reader hooked. I co-authored several articles with my Registrar at NLUO, Professor (Dr) Yogesh Pratap Singh, and, it was always a joy to write with him.
How important is it for the law students to write research papers while being at the law school?
It is definitely helpful, but, there is no hard and fast requirement as such. I have often heard stuff like publishing one article in a journal is equivalent to taking part in a moot. That is simply not true. These activities teach you different skills, and a lot depends on the quality of the paper and the journal it is being published in, which is the same as the quality of a moot court and your position in the competition.
A research paper would not only give you in-depth knowledge about the topic, but also streamline the manner in which you think and present your thoughts. A useful skill for a lawyer, for sure.
You had been a student researcher of important projects of NLU Odisha, won accolades in debate competitions, youth parliaments and MUNs’. How relevant do you believe are those achievements in your success story, so far?
Very relevant. I started off with MUNs. It laid the foundation for everything else that was to follow. As regards debates, I have been doing that since my childhood days. Debates taught me to think on my feet and marshal my arguments in a systematic and convincing manner. Debates also had a tremendous role to play in eliminating stage fright for me, and to be an engaging public speaker. My time
Between the time of your graduation and your post-graduation, you had briefly worked in a renowned law firm at their Gurgaon office. Kindly share your experience of working there in the role in the intervening period between your LL.B. and LL.M.
I was associated with the General Corporate team of JSA Gurgaon for the period between my undergraduate and my Masters. It was a great experience, and I learnt a lot about transactions. The responsibilities that you are entrusted with at the beginning are immense, and you have to adapt to the needs of the clients with alacrity. It was quite an enriching experience overall.
What prompted you to opt for LL.M. from University of Cambridge within a year of completing your BA. LL.B. from a renowned National Law University?
I always knew that I wanted to do a Masters, right from my first day of law school. And I was dead set on two places: Oxford and Cambridge. No other place ever held that charm for me. I wanted to study in a place which had history dating back to centuries, ensconced amongst picturesque medieval architecture and surrounded by the best minds in the world. Safe to say that I found that and much more at Cambridge.
How relevant would you say higher studies are for a career in law, be it working in law firms / companies or pursuing an academic career?
Its subjective. People do a LLM for various reasons. Some do it to satisfy their academic curiosity, others to transition into a foreign workforce, a few people I knew did a LLM as a break from their work. But, you do learn a lot during the year you spend studying for the program. Living in a different country, finding your feet amongst new friends and in a new culture teaches you a lot about yourself, and forces you to adapt to challenges. It opens your eyes to how people from different parts of the world live and the stories that they carry with them.
For an academic career, a LLM is always a big bonus. For law firms, I cannot offer an adequate comment. At the very least, the year you spend for your LLM, if it is at a sufficiently good University, is a year in which you gain a lot of knowledge, so its always a win-win.
What does the CV of a student seeking admission in a premier university offering an LL.M program have to look like? What are the factors you feel are looked into and what are the activities that the assessors regard favourably?
At the top of the list are your marks. To get into Oxbridge or relatively similar places, you need a good enough batch rank and marks. There is no substitute for that. Apart from it, excellence in a particular field is very helpful.
If your CV can demonstrate that you have a certain level of expertise in a particular area of law, you have worked on it extensively, and you are aiming to pursue your Masters in that particular area itself, it helps establish you as a strong candidate for the program. Apart from that, everyone’s CV is different. There is no hard and fast requirements as such.
You had been the Co-President of MCR (Postgraduate student body) Committee at St Catharine’s College for the Academic Year 2021 – 2022. How was your experience of leading a student body, that too outside the country?
It was incredible. I was admitted to St Catharine’s College at Cambridge and the college had elections for the position of the Co-President of the MCR Committee. I ran against a PhD candidate and was elected. As an Indian, being elected as the head of a British College was surreal keeping in mind the positions Indians had had in the British empire barely a hundred years ago or so.
The weight of it all was not lost on me. It was a tremendous amount of responsibility though, almost like a full time job. But, it gave a great opportunity to meet people from different streams: medicine, the sciences, humanities, finance, business; and also to work with the college authorities, and help them all in whatever issues that they had. It was truly a humbling experience.
You had been a gold medallist at NLU Odisha for Public International Law. Despite your command over the subject, what prompted you go for an LL.M. in Corporate Law?
I always wanted to work in Data Protection inter-mixed with commercial law. So, most of my internships and activities were geared on that front. I loved studying PIL in NLUO, primarily because of my Professor, Ananya Ma’am, who made the entire subject extremely engrossing. The fact that I got a medal in the subject, gives me immense joy, but my career trajectory has always been centred around commercial and technology laws.
Please share with our readers how did you narrow down on University of Cambridge for pursuing your LL.M. on Commercial Law along-with data-protection laws as your additional specialisation;
I have mentioned briefly earlier about my desire to study at Oxbridge. Of the two, Cambridge became an obvious choice because of Professor David Erdos, who teaches the module of Law and Information at Cambridge. He also heads CIPIL, which has done some remarkable work on European Data Protection Law. I knew I wanted to study from him, so, it was quite easy for me to decide to opt for Cambridge.
You went to Cambridge on full scholarship. You have been a recipient of three scholarships – Prathiba M Singh Cambridge Trust Scholarship (through Cambridge Trust), J N Tata Endowment for Higher Education of Indians Abroad (through TATA Trusts), Kemp-Gooderson Law Award and other Bursary funds (through St Catharine’s College, University of Cambridge). What is the secret of securing three prestigious scholarship at the same point of time for pursuing your LL.M.?
All of these scholarships are merit-cum-means based, implying that they need a certain calibre of academic standard, and the candidate ought to be in need for financial resources to fund their LLM. I had one objective in mind upon conclusion of my undergraduate program, which was to not ask my family for any funding. And I have been quite fortunate to have achieved that through the cumulative financial commitments of these scholarships. There is no secret as such. Just know your area of law well, be confident, honest and straightforward in the interviews.
Please share your experience of applying at University of Cambridge and for the scholarships, you had secured. Kindly share your experience of the application process for the LL.M. and the scholarships.
It was a bit stressful. Balancing a firm job, along with applications is a tall order. I had prepared a table with the last dates for applications of various scholarships along with their required documents. That helped me keep things on track. I had also reached out to my referees well in advance, so, that helped in avoiding any last minute hiccups regarding letters of recommendation and as such.
My one tip would be, research the Universities you want to get into well in advance, ensure that you have your transcripts and references prepared, and know yourself well for writing the statements of purpose.
In the year 2022, just after completing your LL.M. from the University of Cambridge you have joined Jindal Global Law School, Sonipat as a Lecturer. What prompted you to take the plunge in the field of academics?
A: I have always liked academia, being surrounded by young, bright minds. It is always good to give back to the next generation of students. When I was in Cambridge, Jindal came for recruitment, I applied and got through, and here I am. I am still at an early stage of my career, so, lets see where I end up in the next few years-academia, firm, an organisation, or somewhere else.
Back in your student years, did you ever see yourself becoming an instructor at a prestigious law school, sometime in the future? What did it take to get here?
Absolutely. In fact I used to teach my batchmates prior to every examination. The night before each exam, there would be an assembly of boys in the Boys Hostel in front of my room, and I would teach them whatever limited things I had read myself. These classes became known in NLUO as ‘Ashirbad classes’, and in fact in my final year, some of my batchmates put up a poster titled ‘Ashirbad Classes’ all around the campus. That was the foundation of my career in academia. So, I knew I had a future in academia for sure.
Give us a brief capsule of the life of a lecturer in a prestigious law school.
A: Its an engaging day, comprising of classes and research. It is an important responsibility to instruct students, so, you always have to be prepared for the classes. Apart from that it is always good to be in a University set up where things are quite organised and orderly.
How is your experience of working with Jindal Global Law School’s legendary instructor, Professor. Arjya B. Majumdar?
I have learnt so much from Professor Majumdar. He is pioneer of when it comes to teaching commercial law. I cannot describe accurately how much I have enjoyed working with him at Jindal. Apart from being a great educator, he is also an incredible guy. I have sought his advice on quite a few things, and they have always been eye-opening.
How important are grades, in your opinion, for a student to be eligible for employment, be it in academia or in top tier law firms?
Quite important. Never mess them up. Grades show one important thing- consistency. And that is an invaluable quality that every employer of institution looks for in a prospective candidate. So, be sure to keep them on track.
If given an opportunity, what would you do differently in your career journey up to this point?
Nothing. Not a single thing.
Is there any other suggestion you would like to give to our budding lawyers?
Do everything that you want to do. Set high dreams and demand the highest standards of excellence from yourself. There is nothing quite like regret, so make sure that when you look back on your life, you don’t have regrets about anything.
And always remember these lines “Stick to the fight when you are hardest hit, it’s when things go wrong that you must not quit.”
Being a science student, and then choosing law, what was the idea behind?
Though I was doing good in science, however somehow, I was not interested in pursuing a career in science and therefore, was looking for options. During this time, my family suggested me to go for a career in law and when I started preparing for entrance exams of different law schools (as we did not have CLAT back then) – it really fascinated me. I started reading about famous lawyers in India and also visited the lower Court in my city, the idea of wearing that collar band and arguing in Court used to give me goosebumps.
At was during this time that I firmly took a call to make a career and practice law.
How challenging has it been for you so far in the legal industry?
It has been a very satisfactory journey so far. I was able to clear the entrance exam of two National Law Universities and two reputation private universities and decided to join HNLU, Raipur. I joined the third batch of HNLU, Raipur in 2004 and was fortunate to have been taught by some of the best faculties at the time. My five year stay at HNLU was both memorable and enlightening at the same time.
The strict time lines to submit projects and moot court memorials gave me an early introduction of how the legal profession going to be and worked as a solid foundation for later part of my career.
I joined an IP boutique firm ZuesIP immediately after completing my course and thereafter, my joined current firm Rahul Chaudhry & Partners in 2010.
My firm and my mentor Mr. Rahul Chaudhry, the Managing Partner of the firm have immensely helped me become the professional I am today. I started as a junior associate in the firm and slowly learned the nuances of IP and law in general. I was designed as Partner – IP Enforcement in 2021 and handles IP Enforcement before the Courts in India, Domain Name as well as Custom Authorities.
What created your interest in the IP sector? And how did you prepare yourself for everyday challenges in the same?
My initial interest in IPR started when we were taught IPR in the second and third years of our law course. The idea of knowing, protecting as well as helping the brands grow attracted me and I decided to intern with IP Firms to better understand the subject. I learned the intricacies of IP as a subject and practical aspects of implementing the same in day-to-day legal practice during these internships.
Accordingly, I opted for IPR as my honours subject in the university and got a specialization in the same.
Preparing myself to practice IPR was not a challenge for me as I had a keen interest in the subject. I used to go through all major IP judgments by the Courts to keep myself updated of the latest developments and still try to read as much as I can whenever the schedule permits.
According to you, what networking strategies should be adopted by the first generation lawyers specifically in corporate?
Being a first generation lawyer myself, I have never felt any difference in terms of treatment by law firms or corporates. If you have knowledge of the subject and good command over language – you are bound to be noticed. The age old saying that there is no substitute to hard work is absolutely correct. I am a strong supporter of making your work speaks for yourself. If you are getting reliefs for your clients and are being recommended for your work – the world will look for you.
At the same time, I would suggest one to leverage technology, join industry groups in person or through various social media like LinkedIn and also offer educational resources. Give presentations and educational lectures in various industry gatherings as well as educational institutions.
What are the most important qualities for an intellectual property lawyer?
An IP lawyer needs to keep himself updated with latest judgments and industry practices. With the creation of IP Divisions in the Courts, IP has become even more niche practice. Going through PTC on a regular basis and keeping a track of prosecution practice is also very important. I always suggest that to be a successful IP lawyer, one should have a good command over prosecution side as the same forms the foundation of one’s IP practice.
How a trade mark application is filed, the route it takes for registration and how to overcome the objections raised by the Administrative Authorities (like Trade Marks Registry) are all very important. A wrong advice to the client during prosecution and registration procedure can ruin all future prospects of protecting and enforcing the mark.
Zeeshan, do these legal tech tools have helped litigants and corporates so far in preparation of different documents or filing and what in the future would be challenges for lawyers in dealing with such tools?
The tech tools are indeed helpful and I see them playing a greater role in future. Along with saving time, the tools also minimise the chances of an error. Many corporates have started using them to keep a track of their matters pending in the Courts, checking the deadlines and even setting reminders to ensure that no deadlines are being missed. As we all know, deadlines play very important role in our profession.
The time frame provided by the statues to file pleadings/documents before Courts as well as various administrative authorities are to be strictly followed, specially in IP prosecution. Hence, I believe the tech tools are going to be a game changer in future. With respect to the challenges, I believe the new generation of lawyers will not have any difficulty in handling these tools. I suggest even law schools should start preparing the students to use these tools during their course.
As a partner of a law firm, how do you manage to balance the work-life aspect?
Work-life balance is very important to ensure a long-term efficiency in work and a satisfaction in your personal life. My day usually starts at 9 am in the office and then few hours are spent in the Court as well. Being a partner, I also try spending sometime with my team members to interact and discuss work and the general life related aspects. However, one needs to prioritise the work and maintain a discipline during the working hours.
I am a strong supporter of not carrying the work related stress to home and spend my away time playing with my daughter as well as working out. It is equally important to take care of your health and therefore, I have made it a routine to work out for atleast an hour every morning.
The same not only helps me stay strong physically but also strengths my mind and helps me to prepare myself for the day.
Lastly, any advice for our young law generation?
Legal field requires continuous study and keeping yourself updated of the latest developments. So, it is very important to make an early habit of reading latest judgments as well as precedents. Young lawyers should also visit Courts and hear established legal practitioners argue the cases in Court.
What prompted you to choose legal studies, post your Class 12 Boards, when you had the option to study architecture in a reputed government college?
Long story short, from the beginning itself I had been looking forward to doing something different in the governing system. I had also wanted to break the family’s custom of pursuing engineering studies, if you are being born as a boy. If one wants to work in the managing system, there are only two domains where you can start working from – while the first is Management, the other one is being law. And law is a kind of subject, which starts where management ends. Further, since inception of the universe, it has been governed by law. So, I chose law in order to fulfil my aspiration of doing things differently from the usual course. As I say, once you are a lawyer, you are not jack of all trade, but master of all trade.
Having studied your undergraduate legal studies from Amity Law School, Jaipur, Rajasthan, what were the challenges faced by you?
I think you need to first ask me why Amity Law School Jaipur. During my time, from the group of faculties, four of them were stalwarts in their subjects who happened to teach me during my course of five years of law school, helped and backed me a lot. Those were the faculties who knew their subject inside out and used to deliver lectures at global conferences on a daily basis. The faculties of the college made me interested about Amity Law School Jaipur.
Being from a traditional Bengali family with humble sports background, who has got more knowledge about engineering and medical colleges, they had no knowledge about what 5-year professional law course or law school entails. For my family, every lawyer sits below a banyan tree with a typewriter, as are shown in the typical Bollywood movies. The circa was 2012, when internet penetration was very low, and information was not very easily accessible. Therefore, having no knowledge of CLAT, I relied on two things to choose my college.
As I mentioned above, faculty was one of the reasons, the other being a little funny – it was the Indian Premier League. Amity was one of the sponsors of Mahendra Singh Dhoni and the use of the logo Amity University in his bat and the Rajasthan Royals team, intrigued me into joining the law school, to pursue my five years of legal studies. Additionally, myself being an avid sportsperson, the seemingly world class sporting facilities at Amity Jaipur made me more interested to join.
After getting inside, there were lots of challenges. The timing of the library was one major concern. We used to have two libraries – one law school library and the other one was the central library.
Central library used to operate from 9 AM to 8 PM. And the law school library timing was from 9 AM to 5 PM, which means resource was not easily accessible. If, one compares that to the libraries of one of the most reputed global law schools of the country with Institution of Eminence tag, where faculties have connections with many reputed organizations in backing their students, to pursue research and internship, Amity Law School Jaipur was nothing at that point of time.
I still remember when I got my internship at IIFT (WTO Studies) and Indian Oil, it was the walk of a lonely road for me, with my shadow being the only companion. So, one may easily comprehend how tough my journey was.
What prompted you to opt for pursuing Masters of Law in Energy Law from UPES, Dehradun?
Well, while planning for doing my masters in India, I was not looking for Masters in Energy Law, it was International Trade Law which I was looking forward to specialize in. Being a sports-person, I always had a keen interest from the beginning in the domain of Sports Law and wanted to make it a strong base along with International Law.
Unlike the European Universities, which offers much flexibility to its admitted students to study and research in only in the subjects chosen for the specialisation, most Indian Universities are very inflexible.
In Indian LL.M.’s you start with some basic subjects like Legal Research Methodology and so on, and then later on towards the second half of your course, i.e., the second semester, you get your subject in which you want to pursue your masters. But this is where there was a tweak in the story.
When I was about to start my final semester at UPES Dehradun, I was informed by the University authority abruptly, that since I am the only student who had opted for the subject, they cannot provide me the same, and I have got to choose between the Corporate Law, Cyber Law and Energy Law specialisation. Hearing this I had initially decided to leave the college.
However in these testing times, my parents and two elderly professor were the ones who had supported and motivated me by suggesting that since you have spent six month, leaving the college without taking the degree, would lead to wasting of your time only. Per their advice, I continued my LL.M. in Energy Laws from UPES, with the aim of specialising in the niche domain of Energy law and that is how I got my masters in Energy Law, as there is a saying “Knowledge never goes in vain.”
When I compare my experience as a student in Indian Universities, with that of where I am employed, I can realize how stark the difference is in between them, and this is the difference which makes all the difference in the students studying in them.
Were you always bent on pursuing an academic career post completion of legal studies? How did you prepare yourself for the same?
I had not always harboured in my mind for an academic career post completion of legal studies but yes at certain corner of my mind, I had wished myself to see as an instructor. We, Indians are always complaining toward the law society that Sports Law is a niche area and that we need to work on it to make it more mainstream.
Many people also say that we need the future of the country in the Sports Law in India; but how if you asked, people will be saying it is tough to answer. Now if you look at the countries like United Kingdom, you will see how sports law is an important and developed subject, also even smaller countries like New Zealand, Croatia, Ghana etc. have a proper developed knowledge of sports and education related to it, with young lawyers supporting it.
While doing this research, it made me realize that young and future lawyers are created, only if one can share the knowledge with the future of the country i.e. the “students”.
The only way you can inspire the future and make the world a better place if you reach out to the students, and the only way a person may do so is by joining the academics. Therefore, I joined the academic side, so we can have large number of budding lawyers. Further if you say that you want to join the academics, I will suggest one should love one particular subject and gives his full dedication to it by research and publishing.
If someone is interested in an academic career in law, how would you advise the concerned professional to work towards that goal?
Well, there is only one thing I will advise them – you need to dedicate yourself toward one particular subject as your major, then try to master it by researching and publishing as much as you can.
You had been an avid sportsperson right from your school days, what prompted you to choose a career in sports law over and above a career as a sportsperson?
To answer this in depth I will provide a little introduction to my family from which I belong. See, sports run in my veins. My mom used to be a state-level cricket player and my father used to be a football referee. So one can say that I have seen sports as an activity very closely, and it has made me also attracted to sporting activity. I still remember that I used to practise cricket every weekend and football every weekday back in my childhood days.
But later part of my life, I have concentrated on football only, in which I played for Sports Authority of India Eastern Region. But later on, an injury lead me to stop the practice, but as you know, once you dedicate your love towards sports, you cannot neglect it.
So, I thought if you cannot practise the game on the field, why don’t you practise it differently, as a discipline. I still remember back in 2017/2018 Indian people were unaware about the subject of Sports Law.
There were only very few people who knew about it. Even its in developing phase today, people still get confused with management and law. But sports law has always been active in India. Looking back as far as 4th Century BC, there was a script which has mentioned about the law of games, which in most likely a board game. I researched this topic within my own studies and became aware of how most people were not aware of the existence of sports law, even in today’s society.
Nowadays, as sports law is undergoing its development phase, many new upcoming lawyers want to know about the subject. They complain about the lack of knowledge available as we don’t have that much faculty who have specialisation within the subject. So, I thought, why not take in charge without complaining like most others and start to develop future Sports Lawyers. As soon as I thought this, from that time onwards itself I tried to change my passion into an education degree, so I can create the structure and teach the same to my students.
After this, everything falls in place, and I got an admission call from Nottingham Trent University with an International Scholarship. This in itself came after sacrifice of many nights’ sleep. However, I did the same for the sake of my country and other underprivileged students from around the world, who want to study this subject and can’t be due to family or monetary reason.
Furthermore, there is more to be done for Athletes in India. These individuals suffer a lot due to lack of proper legislation / regulations of sports of any kind. Not only that, the legal system in India still now needs more research as even the Supreme Court sometimes get confused about whether some organisation representing the country will be considered as State or not. There is also a question of whether National Olympic Community will be considered as a supreme governing body or not. So, I just want to dedicate myself as a bridge to fulfil the gaps in my legal and educational systems. This has led to my love of sports developing into a passion for Sports Law
You had completed your Second Master in law (LL.M.) from the prestigious Nottingham Trent University, United Kingdom, with an International Scholarship. Please share your experience starting from application stage for the LL.M., to the scholarship application up to your experience of studying at Nottingham Trent University?
Well, from the beginning it is a smooth running operation compared to many Indian traditional universities, and the university authority will always be in touch with you, for every point of your application to fill the scholarship form.
Now moving toward education system, not only Nottingham Trent University, even all the British Universities has the open and flexible education system, where we can take any subject as elective subject with our law subject, and secondly in Nottingham Trent University particularly, you have one of the famous Sports Law Professor Simon Boyes, who is considered as one of the chief architect for the development of sports law in the world.
Post your LL.M. from Nottingham, you had also briefly worked at one of the prominent Football Clubs in the English Premier League Circuit. Kindly share your experience of working in the same including the work you used to do in the same organisation.
Well see life there is pretty fast and timely, so it was good experience with some commercial experience, but yes if you have habit of hard work and smart work mixer you will enjoy their work culture.
You have undertaken multiple diplomas and certificate courses, more importantly, from the International Olympic Association (IOC Young Leader), FIFA, UEFA. How do you choose courses for the purpose of skill-development?
So there is a saying knowledge is like ocean, even if you try to conquer all, still you can’t, and if you say you have learned everything it means you are only dooming yourself. For me I chose the courses at first for the thirst of the knowledge and secondly according to my student’s need because at the end of the day you are the captain of your crew which are your students.
Despite being someone involved in the development of sports law in India, you have handled assignments of teaching other law subjects at ease and is quite popular amongst your students. What is your secret in being a popular teacher amongst the students?
Thank you for saying so, but I think every student have someone who is favourite to that individual, but if you ask me I will say I always motivate them, try to listen them, collaborate with them; sometime try to empathise with them and treat them with utmost respect as upcoming future buddy lawyers.
Apart from being an Assistant Professor at Jindal Global Law School Sonipat, you are also the Assistant Director at Centre for Sports Law Business and Governance of the law school. Kindly share your experience of working in the same, so far.
It’s a dream for me to work with one of my role model and one of mentor and guru Professor Shaun Star, and really like to work under his leadership as he has taught me many things, and once it was also my dream to learn under him but that is fulfilling in another way under his leadership.
Apart from your role as a Professor, you seem to be a multi-tasker, as you handle multiple roles as an Editor, Author, Guest Lecturer, Editorial & Review Board Member. Kindly share your experience of working in multiple roles at the same point of time.
All I want to say in one sentence I enjoy to work and love to dedicate my time to the subject and development of future generation which is students
What is the recipe of your success in successful multi-tasking, which you believe law students of today should develop?
My tips to all the budding sports lawyer are to first change your passion for sport into love and interest towards the subject as like, you do same with your girlfriend or boyfriend, because subjects are like girlfriend or boyfriend only. How can you be happy if you don’t have interest in her or him? It will lead to break up, but more you are interested in a girl or boy and give him or her time she or he deserves, will give you more love in return, so same is with the subject. You have to have a passion and drive for sports to engage within the study of sports law.
The second and more important tips will be to be curious about every rule and the judgement you come across and think why it has been decided like this or it has been not done in the other way, the more you think more capable you become.
From having been appointed as a visiting faculty of SLS Hyderabad, you have gone a long way on becoming the Indian to be appointed the Ambassador of ISDE Law Business School Spain, a visiting faculty at IIM Rohtak , Research Analyst at Nehginpao Kipgen Centre for Southeast Asian Studies and an Assistant Professor at the Jindal Global Law School.
How do you find this journey in such a short span of time of a little over two years?
Well, Actually in my mind there is a thinking that when I am in this field there are lots of senior faculties who are at first senior to you and secondly they have more experience than you. So, for making it there and to sit on the chair of this assembly, one needs to be humble and spend more of their time in practising as well as sleeping less, because firstly you need to fill the gaps. Additionally, you always need to be one step ahead of them.
Amongst so many achievements in your life, what is that one failure that redefined who you are today?
Well, there is nothing as such. Even if there is, I think I have forgot the same by this time. I always like myself happy and I don’t look at the past or think about the future as you know I live each day and each moment of present as the last day, as you know present is gift to us by time.
Being avid sports personnel and being involved in the development of sports law in India, how effective do you think AI and Legal Tech can be in the meaningful development of the sports law in India?
In the world of IoT and constant change, its always helpful, as it helps to get access to more research document and case list around the world so one does not have any more barrier in the education world.
Lastly, before we end our interview, what piece of advice would you like to give to the law students of today?
I will suggest them, before if you want to win this subject, it’s advisable to first change your passion for subject into love and interest towards the subject, then try to be always humble never let it enter our head.
Secondly always keep in mind law that it is a professional subject, so don’t mug it up without understanding the subject as you know mugging it up means you will be theoretically sounded and top for many, but in court it is always not the same thing, which is mentioned in the book, you need to be practically smart.
Never think about the marks, try to think about grasping more and more into practical view.
And at last I will say them all that, it is your life, try to decorate it on way and try to be honest and listen to heart always. You all are young and will be having competitor whom you treat as enemy, then feel yourself lucky for having enemy as you know that a clever person learn more from his enemy then a fool from his friend.
If any problem comes, always keep in mind that problem is not the problem but problem is your attitude about the problem.
What motivated you to take law as a career and how has been the decision so far?
As all students, I was also confused during my school days as to which profession I should choose. Thereafter, my mom suggested me to take up law in lines of the profession of my father as he has already established a base. I did not qualify CLAT, however, I qualified for UPES, LAWCET and ILS Law College, Pune.
Keeping the long standing reputation and I decided to join ILS Law College, Pune. All throughout my college life, I enjoyed participating in Moot Court competitions. After completing my law, I immediately joined my father’s law firm i.e., THOMAS GEORGE & ASSOCIATES. Thereafter, my mom was instrumental in insisting me to complete my LL.M.
I did LL.M in Constitutional Law from O.U.P.G. College, Basheerbagh and secured a Gold Medal which was a lifetime dream come true. My father has been an amazing mentor as he not only trained me in drafting, filing procedures, clerical works but he also gave me the freedom to take up matters and handle them independently from day one …!
My first appearance itself was arguing a final hearing before the then united Hon’ble Andhra Pradesh High Court of a Criminal Revision Case pertaining to 2008. Ever since then, I have never stopped and I hope to argue many more important cases in the years ahead of my life.
Arguing the law and interpreting the law are two important facets of my litigation life which I will always cherish. So, though law happened by accident, I am happy to go the way it carries me. There is a unique unexplained sense of happiness that, I feel while arguing cases before different judicial and non-judicial fora throughout the country. With all the tremendous pressures that we as advocates undergo, it is only, that joy that I get, after arguing different kinds of matters that keeps me going ahead…!
Your internship experiences are filled with reputed Advocates and Judges, was there any roadmap for the same or all did was in flow? How would you guide students in choosing internships?
As a law student after participating in few moot court competitions, I was inclined towards litigation. My first internship was with my father and mentor who taught me the basic art of advocacy, that includes drafting, filing procedures etc.
Thereafter, I went on to intern with Designated Senior Counsel Late Padmanabha Reddy where I was mesmerised to see sir argue different kinds of matters at length on his legs from 10:30 AM to 04:30 PM…! I would observe, sir argue most complex matters with utmost patience and he was always calm and composed, the most essential art I learnt. Subsequently, I interned with Adv. S. Niranjan Reddy now Designated Senior Counsel/ Member of Parliament, at whose offices I learnt corporate litigation and its nuances.
Thereafter, I had the unique opportunity of working with Honourable Justice Kurian Joseph (Retired), Former Judge Hon’ble Supreme Court of India and while interning with his Lordship, I was able to understand what all goes in the minds of the judges post arguments since, I was also involved in the legal research that would assist judges in arriving at their decisions. I was able to see the judicial process closly that goes on after the arguments and before the judgement is pronounced.
This experience has channelised my arguments in a slightly different manner and I am dedicated His Lordship for imparting this knowledge in me. Thereafter, I had a short stint with late Advocate Lily Thomas who had shown me no matter whatever hurdles and challenges life throws at us one must keep moving. Lastly, in my final year, I interned with Designated Senior Counsel & Hon’ble R. Basant sir Former Kerala High Court Judge. During this internship I received unique lessons of life & law, wherein I learnt how a mentor can treat his associates, juniors and interns with patience & care and at the same time learnt how hard work and dedication plays an important role in the life of an advocate. Students are not always sure as to what kind of an advocate they want to become after graduating, so it is always beneficial to intern at different places where there are variety of matters.
Students should always start their internships with advocates who have a variety of trial court matters. In trial courts, students can learn about procedural laws, they can observe Cross Examinations and trial advocacy skills.
Thereafter, students must intern with advocates practising in the High Courts and then the Supreme Court if possible. After this I would suggest students to intern with different corporate law firms. By the end of their internships, I would say with utmost surety, that, the students will be able to decide their career paths…!
Manav, any specific reason for choosing litigation over corporate, what created your interest in that?
I hope my answer to this question does not create any controversy amongst corporate law practitioners. I do not feel that I am made up for only drafting contracts or due diligence as I like to see the law in motion and that, only happens in the courts of law. In litigation, one see and meets different types of clients with different issues and in pursuing those issues one has to appear before different judicial and non-judicial fora and convince the Honourable Judges on unique points of laws and facts. Litigation requires a unique skill of being able to put forth your points with absolute clarity and conviction.
For the same, one has to be well versed and well abreast with the laws and case laws. In corporate law, there are different nuances of law which are being explored on a day-to-day basis but none of the corporate lawyers are able to see their documents being interpreted in the courts of law. That is why, I choose litigation over corporate law.
However, one must understand that even though I am a litigating lawyer, on a day-to-day basis, I am dealing with various aspects of corporate law which we cannot avoid being a lawyer. Thus, I believe that the so-called difference between a corporate lawyer and a litigating professional is a grey area which cannot be compartmentalised. So, I fix no label to myself….I leave it to the readers to categorise me as any lawyer they feel based on the work I execute.
As lawyers, society depends on us in a lot of situations and pro-bono matters is one of them. How far do you resonate with this?
Society depends on a number of aspects that keeps evolving and law is an important part of this evolving society. The changing needs of the society requires dynamic changes by the practitioners of law. In today’s world where everyone is in the rat race to earn, a lot of poor litigants suffer with inefficient representation as the fees that they can pay is less. I completely believe that in the background of the unique requirements of the society as of today, pro bono matters would definitely assist and help the people in need in a unique and effective manner.
Many a times, I come across poor litigants who are not guided in the right direction due to which they faced unpleasant consequences. In this background all the us at THOMAS GEORGE AND ASSOCIATES believe in helping the really needy clients and when the situation demands we do take up pro bono matters. In criminal matters I observed that the people arrayed as accused in many matters do not have the necessary sources to finance their litigation expenses and tend to seek help from legal aid.
Many a times, legal aid is not providing effective and efficient representation thereby rendering the whole purpose futile. Thus, professionals with experience taking up pro bono matters really helps the litigants in need.
According to you, what networking strategies should be adopted by the first-generation lawyers specifically in litigation?
The struggles of first-generation lawyers are untold in today’s world. There is no secret mantra that can be told as to the strategies that can be adopted, however, these are a few tools which may come handy in the years to come. Networking is a very important part of litigation which one will understand as they progress in their profession. One must always bear in mind that every person one meets in any walk of life can be one’s prospective client and thus one should interact with people and make them know that one is a practising lawyer.
There is an apt example for the aforementioned statement of mine; once while I was in a club and while I was on the way to the washroom, I met an acquaintance of mine and in a casual conversation made him know that I am practising in Hyderabad. After a year I received a call by this acquaintance who had referred a very big company for coming on board as their retainer. So, one can land up with a client in any place.
Keeping in touch with your alma mater and alumni will also help you in being referred matters from different states pertaining to your jurisdiction. Being active on social media can also help to a certain extent. Giving internships to students, is a way of giving back to the society and in return over the years to come, one will see the benefit from the same. Also, one must always remember that hard work pays off and the reason I say so, is your work must speak for yourself and that in turn would result in receiving the due benefits of networking.
Please elaborate for us your current role
I am currently the Name Partner at THOMAS GEORGE & ASSOCIATES, Hyderabad. The Managing and Founding Partner of the firm is my father, Advocate Thomas George and the Senior Partner is my mother. This being the background of my firm, the positions that we hold really does not matter for us internally. That being said, on a day-to-day basis I appear on various matters before various Judicial and Non-judicial fora throughout India with my base practice in Hyderabad.
My entire day goes in arguing matters before different courts of law and in the evening, I spend my time in preparing for matters listed either on the immediate next day or for the days to come and also meet my clients. I supervise the administrative matters of the firm.
I delegate matters to the juniors/associates at the firm, teach/assign work/cross check the drafts assigned to the Associates/Virtual/Non-virtual interns. I brief the Managing and Founding Partner and Senior Partner of the firm on matters that needs to be argued. I also help my Associates in practising their presentations before the courts scheduled for the next day, so that, they do not face any difficulty.
So far we’ve seen employees being harassed at workplace wrt different situations, how well do you consider the role of employment laws in the same?
It is always beneficial for employees to research about the firm where they seek employment before scheduling any interview. I also think it will be beneficial if one can speak to people who worked in the said place prior to joining. The role of employment laws is not very effective as, the internal committee for any kind of harassment consist of members of the same firm.
Furthermore, if any employee raises a complaint and leaves the organisation the next organisation will always look at this employee with a speck in their eyes and thus there is a fear in employees from making any complaints whatsoever.
How does AI play a significant role in helping lawyers and what are the consequences for the same?
AI is already playing a significant role in lives of lawyers. As on today we can see AI’s tremendous use in research while comparing to our senior generation lawyers. The search engines have been extremely helpful in researching for case laws as well as to know overruled decisions, landmark decisions et cetera. Case management has become very simple with the help of various digital applications that provides the statuses of all the matters of the firm with the click of a button. Dictation and drafting have become 10 times easier than what it was with the usage of the software that types out whatever we dictate with almost 90% perfection.
Another application that I have come across in the recent times is a scanner pen which can be used to copy paste contents from various hard copy of agreements/drafts into the word document. AI will always remain a tool in the hands of a lawyer but can never replace mankind especially lawyers, because, the brain used to interpret law in a unique manner is not AI but it is that unique skill of that lawyer. Furthermore, convincing a judge is done by advocates who present their matters in ways they deem fit which again cannot be substituted by AI. For people who disagree then mankind itself will be overtaken by AI.
There are also applications that are being developed for taking queries from clients through chat boxes and these apps help in consolidating the client consultations to a certain extent. Such client consultations would in a way save the precious time of lawyers. However, how much ever technology advances, if it lacks human touch in the works of a lawyer then I believe there will not be effective representation in those cases.
Manav, we’ve been witnessing students shifting from litigation to corporate or most of the times they dont even take litigation as an option, what can be the reasons for the same?
Personally, I would like to disagree. In the recent years I have seen many students in fact choosing litigation over corporate law firms. The ground reality is that, as on date, there are no vacancies in many chambers as they are already flooded with young students who have just graduated. However, students do prefer a comfortable and stable life with heavy packages which corporate law firms provide and that can be the only reason that students would prefer corporate law firms over litigation.
Once litigating lawyers start paying their juniors at least the amounts that are required for the basic survival in the cities they practice, students will definitely choose litigation. What I have observed in corporate law firms is that due to tremendous burn outs over the period of time people shift back to litigation thereby losing their initial precious years of the experience. Students must understand that litigation is like an investment which grows manifolds.
The life of a corporate lawyer or a judicial officer or a lecturer usually ends upon attaining the age of superannuation, however, the life of an advocate has no age limit and in a lighter note; when all your fellow colleagues are retiring, the practising lawyers start earning even more…!
Lastly, any piece of advice for our young lawyers
Repeating what you would have already heard from various stalwarts in the profession, I would like to say that there are no shortcuts to success.
Hard work, dedication, diligence, perseverance, patience are the keystones to success. We must always remember that success cannot be achieved overnight but it requires tremendous hard work.
Whenever, we see successful professionals, we only tend to see their achievements without knowing the amount of pain, sacrifices, compromise that they had to undergo to reach the place that they are at today.
Having patience will definitely play a great role in reaching those heights of success that are channelled for you. One must always remember to maintain a work – life balance which everyone has been talking about in the recent times. One must take time off work, spend time with family and friends as well, which are very important.
I always tell my hardworking interns not to forget to chill in life. All the best!!!
Would you like to tell our audience about what motivated you to choose law as a career?
Growing up in a small city in Agra, I didn’t think of becoming a lawyer. My father, being an engineer himself, motivated me to take up science in 10+2. However, as soon as school got over, I knew that a career in science is not what I was looking for. I opted to study business administration in my graduation, for which I moved to Delhi. It was in my time in Delhi when I was introduced to the legal profession through friends and acquaintances. On one occasion, I got the opportunity to accompany a friend of mine to the Delhi High Court for one of her personal matters. That was my first tryst with the legal system, but that was enough for me to make up my mind that I wanted to pursue litigation as a career. The next step for me was to start my study of law and get a law degree. I worked hard on my entrance exam and sat for the University of Delhi, Faculty of Law, and started my legal journey as a student of the esteemed Campus Law Centre.
Looking back now, I understand that my sole motivation to become a lawyer was to do work which has the potential of having a long lasting impact on people’s lives and for me, that is what the legal profession is all about.
Abhishek, we all have our struggle stories to share and I mean not struggle specifically but yeah, the obstacles that one has to overcome, would you mind throwing light upon those?
I love the word ‘struggle’ and perceive it as a very positive term. In fact, everyone is struggling in their own way, even lawyers – some are struggling to get new clients, some for favourable orders, the struggle is continuous. In my opinion though, the ability to deal with struggle with a positive outlook is what makes one a better lawyer than their contemporaries.
Post my graduation in law, when I got enrolled at the bar, I was struggling to get a job, get a good job profile, better work and then some more work. Three years into the profession, I made my peace with the struggles and obstacles, and that’s when I actually started growing as a lawyer. From carrying heavy files and running between courtrooms to sending my profile to “A tier” law firms and conglomerates (for more work), I have done it all. Looking back now, I genuinely cherish those days. At same time, I realise that the struggle will never be over. You just have to start learning to enjoy it as a part and parcel of the profession you have chosen.
According to you, what networking strategies should be adopted by the first-generation lawyers specifically in litigation?
Since the beginning, I have treated everyone around me as a potential client. Like doctors, everyone needs a lawyer (however much they may not want it!). In a world driven by social media, the first step for me was to be connected with friends, colleagues and peers through whatever platforms I could exploit. That would be my advice – use your primary network to build yourself from ground up.
Another very important thing is to speak and write about your work, be it failures or success, or even the constant struggles of a young lawyer like myself. That being said, I do not think there is a straight-jacket formula for networking. As important as networking is, it is complimented by word of mouth. Just focus on good work and people will come to you.
How has been your experience so far dealing with cases wrt NDPS matters and Consumer rights? Would you recommend this niche to young legal professionals, and if yes, why?
Honestly, I have done many more consumer cases as compared to NDPS matters. At the beginning of my own practice, I argued a bunch of consumer cases. The favourable orders that I got in some of those cases gave my career the boost it needed at the initial stage.
They also helped me become more confident as a lawyer. Coming to the question of building a practice around this niche area is concerned, I believe there is a lot of scope in both of these fields. After the introduction of the new Consumer Protection Act 2019, the work has really gone up, especially in light of the amendment in the jurisdiction aspect of the new law which, being pro-consumers, has given them a lot of confidence. Despite Courts laying down settled principles of law in almost all aspects of consumer cases, I believe there is more to come. If you can think out of the box, consumer law is a niche I would highly recommend.
As of now, my team and I, at my firm AY Associates, are focusing primarily on corporate advisory, financial frauds, alternate dispute resolution and litigation.
Abhishek, do these legal tech tools have helped litigants and corporates so far in preparation of different documents or filing and what in the future would be challenges for lawyers in dealing with such tools?
Very interesting question- In my personal opinion, technology and legal tools based on these technologies have truly helped litigants and corporates to understand the procedural as well substantive laws very well. Smart contracts are a thing now and so many corporates are opting for such options, especially in this world of Artificial Intelligence. To this end, many start-ups have cropped-up in the market selling AI-driven software for end-to-end contract automation and this is only the beginning, in my opinion.
To answer the second part of your question – I believe these tools have the potential to act as a helping hand for lawyers, especially with contracts and corporate advisory. That being said, I do believe that machines/AIs can never outsmart a human being.
India is going through a massive start-up revolution, to what extent the work of lawyer will increase and any special skills that can help in this sail?
Indeed, India is growing immensely with respect to start-ups. In terms of legal work, we at AY Associates are currently handling accounts of various start-ups regularly wherein we are working on
1. Advising them on fund raising,
2. Drafting of complex agreements, and
3. Litigation. With this growing economy of start-ups, the work of a lawyer is only going to grow in future. And considering that majority of start-ups are conscious of their funding and finances, a large number of them are opting for young boutique firms like ours, which offers them the same standard of work as that of top law firms but at a fairly reasonable price.
Start-ups at their initial stages are often looking for a one-stop solution for all their legal issues and that’s a niche in itself. That’s where you have to really work upon – provide solutions to all their legal and quasi-legal problems.
While dealing with start-ups, lawyers should endeavour to be aware of all major aspects of the business of the company. This includes not just law, which of course is primary, but everything around the business the potential star- up client may be dealing with. As a lawyer, it is imperative for one to understand that small business owners know their business and not law, and therefore a good practice would be for the lawyers to proactively advise the clients on every aspect of their business. Do that and then even the sky is not the limit.
During my initial days, I was advised by one senior colleague of mine that “before entering a meeting with a start-up client, ensure that you read extensively and thoroughly about their business. You should know more about their business than them. It will raise the client’s confidence in you and I assure you the mandate shall be yours”. I would like to pass on the same words of wisdom to others who are starting out.
“Pro-Bono matters don’t really benefit you in the short or long run”, how true is this phrase?
If you ask me, I would say – “Pro-Bono matters really benefit you both in the short AND long run”
I started out as a PIL lawyer where there were negligible commercials involved, but there was a brief, a cause, and an opportunity to argue matters before the CJI bench in the Supreme Court of India! I consider myself fortunate that in just the first year of my getting into the profession, I was getting to argue a writ in the “temple of law”. It was the best feeling ever. Being a first-generation lawyer, that experience gave me a lot of confidence and inspired me to do more. At the sunrise of my career, I quickly realised it’s better to be a lawyer with briefs but less money than being a briefless lawyer.
Exposures like these in the initial days are rare and one should never shy away from grabbing such opportunities. It helps you understand the art of law, gives you immense confidence (much needed in the legal profession) and helps you grow your name as well. Even now, I continue to do pro bono matters before the Supreme Court and the High Court of Delhi, because I believe that I have the potential to bring some positive change in the relevant section of the society.
As a founder of a law firm, how do you manage to balance the work-life aspect?
When I am at work, I don’t feel that I am at “work”. I being a lawyer has been a part of my life for the past decade, and that is reflected in my personality as well now. I love to wake up in the morning and go out and do my thing. Obviously, some days are less exciting than the others, but that’s part of the game, isn’t it?
Secondly, as a founder of a boutique law firm, my primary focus has been to build a great team of lawyers who understand their roles well. We are still a work in progress (aren’t we all?), but I have immense faith in the team that I am building. After all, teamwork makes the dream work.
On some extremely hard days, I fall back upon sports and music, both tied for the position of my second love. In their own way, each of these help me sail smoothly through rainy day.
Lastly, any advice for our young law generation?
Do what you do with utmost sincerity and conviction. Patience is the key in this profession and if you wish to make it big, please don’t forget to tie your laces properly so that you can run that extra mile.
What motivated you to choose law as a career? And how has been the journey so far for you?
Both my parents pursued chartered accountancy and while I was in school, I also picked up commerce stream, thinking becoming CA is my destiny. But very quickly, I realized that the world of balance sheets is not my thing and that I don’t view the world objectively in terms of numbers. For me it was much more than that. I have been a very opinionated person right from the time, I was in school and in furtherance of my commerce stream, either MBA or Law was the most befitting choice for me and i decided to pursue law thinking I’ll one day be able to do my part for the society.
The journey, haha! As you can see, it is not going in the direction as intended, considering I have quit the practice of law.
Do you agree with this statement that being a first generation lawyer, you have to put some extra effort?
As unpopular as it would sound, I still agree that being a first generation lawyer you have to put in extra efforts in the following things:
Connections and referrals for internships.
For Litigation lawyers especially: Better opportunities are reserved for those who belong to the family of the advocate.
Direction: How to proceed and what all opportunities are there?
Elevation: We have seen the trend where various generations of one family get elevated as the HC and SC judges.
Having said that, I don’t mean to say that first generation lawyers can’t make it big. They definitely can, it’s just that they are almost on their own. They have to spend extra time and effort to find a path for themselves.
From an advocate to now a Career Strategist and Employability Coach, how has been the shift for you so far?
The shift has been nothing less than phenomenal. I like interacting with people. I like providing solutions to the issues at hand. I like making lives’ easier.
My work as a career strategist has given me the platform to pursue everything that I like starting from making content on social media to talking to hundreds of students and professionals to providing solutions. Further, I get to work for the hours that I want to.
The adrenaline rush that I feel after any of my mentees, gets shortlisted or selected for a law firm job or an internship, is amazing. However, the cons are also there, say if the mentee is not successful, the sadness feels personal.
Further, in terms of my salary at a tier -1 firm and the exponential increase that it would have, had I stuck to it, is not possible in this venture of mine.
But all I can say is that, satisfaction that I have when I explain to someone why they are not getting an internship or a job and how they can remedy that, cannot be replicated in any other job.
So all in all the highs have been very high and the lows have been very low.
As per the present times, what are some of the skills that are in demand in the legal profession? Please brief our audience wrt both litigation and corporate point of view!
I would say apart from the basic research and drafting, I believe some skills pertaining to:
Clarity of thought and structure in putting across your points be it in negotiations or while arguing in the court.
Ability to adapt with the latest technology for due-diligence, drafting and court appearances, etc.
Time-management: May sound very obvious but is very underrated and is one of the key reasons why there is hardly and work life balance.
Networking: You can never go independent or not climb the corporate ladder if you cannot being in business for yourself or the law firm that you work for and that can only happen if you are good at networking
Art of emailing: Again very underrated but required on a daily basis and not many are proficient in this.
Ability to constantly upskill and be commercially aware: So that you do not get replaced.
Skill stacking: So that your area of law does not make you redundant in the coming years.
We have heard that most law schools don’t focus on practical skills, and the current demands as well, what are your thoughts on the same, and how law students and other professionals can upskill their game?
I agree that most of the law schools do not focus on practical skill sets.
That can be remedied only by coming into the field and doing the work. Through internships. That can be aided through good courses focussing on the practicality of law and not only the theoretical portions of the same.
You are also quite active in content creation on some really interesting topics, any specific strategies that you implement and work for you well?
Haha! I would say I am still figuring out.
But yes, creating content after analyzing my target set of audience.
Adding only those people in my audience who can resonate with my work and content is also a must.
Addressing the pain points of my audiences is also another thing that helped me build a fairly big audience.
Further, not fearing from speaking on controversial topics or giving our unpopular opinion also brings out honest content from within us.
Lastly, my personal experiences have allowed me to connect with the audience.
So far we’ve seen lawyers not focusing on their mental health because of work pressure and tight deadlines. Please shed some light on this issue, any tips that can make the situation better?
Time-management is the key if you are at a senior position.
If you are a junior lawyer, time management alone will not help you. You need to pick the right boss who is on the same page as you on the issue of mental health. Discuss this wherever possible in your interview, so that you know their viewpoint on the issue of mental health.
Join an organization where focus is not only on revenue generation but also employee wellness. Check their website for such policies, ask their ex-employees about the reason for leaving the firm, etc.
Pick a domain that works well for your mental health. For example if you pick litigation and expect a work life balance, that will not be possible. But if you try and join some consulting firm in their legal compliance department, you can still hope for some work-life balance.
Lastly, journal regularly, have a healthy lifestyle and take therapy (!!!) as and when needed.
Lastly, some advice for our readers?
Law is changing like never before. Not the core law, but its application and its interface with other domains of technology, content, personal branding, management, etc., Explore that and see if there is something that fits the bill for you. Get that first mover advantage while you can.
Further, don’t take yourself so seriously. It all pans out well for everyone in the end.
Everyone has a different journey. It may look similar right now, but in reality so many factors are at play for everyone. So never compare yourself to your peers. Focus on your path and you will be good to go.
Lastly, talk to at least one new person and read the newspaper for 10 minutes, every day and you will do wonders on your journey of being a lawyer!
