Could you walk us through the pivotal moments and decisions that shaped your career path, from your early days in college to landing your first job, and ultimately, to where you are today? What inspired you to pursue a career in law, particularly specializing in Intellectual Property?
I have always loved reading and listening to the news and have been deeply interested in politics and social issues. Naturally, becoming a lawyer seemed like the right path for me. After finishing college, I developed an interest in company law and moved to Chennai to start my legal career. The turning point in my career came in 1995 when I happened to watch a court case involving a trademark dispute by chance. I attended all the hearings of that case and had the opportunity to listen to arguments in a few other cases as well. I had a fair understanding of Intellectual Property, but witnessing a court argument over IP for the first time was a pivotal moment for me. This was when India became a member of the WTO, and the controversy surrounding India’s WTO membership and TRIPS agreement conditions was a hot topic. Observing these cases sparked my curiosity and deepened my interest in the subject. This inspiration led me to pursue a master’s degree in IP in 1999.
After completing my master’s, I had the opportunity to work for a new law firm in the Middle East that sought lawyers with expertise in then trending subject, Intellectual Property. This firm had several foreign clients dealing with IP issues, marking my initial exposure to Intellectual Property disputes. Later, I joined Abu Ghazaleh Intellectual Property (AGIP), which opened doors to working with Forbes 500 clients. My experience at AGIP significantly shaped my career as an IP lawyer.
Your professional journey includes solo practice as well as working with leading IP firms. What motivated you to establish Suns Legal, and what unique value proposition do you bring to your clients as a solo practitioner?
Being a solo practitioner has its perks. For one, I can give each client my full attention, which means I can create legal strategies that are just right for their specific problems. I can quickly adapt to any changes and offer flexible solutions. Running my practice also lets me keep my prices competitive while maintaining high quality. With my expertise in Intellectual Property law and the experience I have gained from working with top firms, I can provide clients with expert advice and solutions. Building long-term relationships based on trust is very important to me. All these factors help me deliver high-quality service and show my commitment to meeting my client’s legal needs with professionalism and care.
Beyond your professional accomplishments, you’ve also been recognized as a LinkedIn Top Voice for your contributions to thought leadership in Intellectual Property. What motivates you to share your expertise and insights with a wider audience?
I am not a social media expert, but I love creating content. LinkedIn is the only platform I am active on. My strong belief in the power of knowledge sharing and the incredible reach LinkedIn offers drives me to share my expertise and insights.
Intellectual Property (IP) is such a complex and evolving field, and I feel a real responsibility to make it easier for others to understand. My passion for teaching plays a big role in my eagerness to write on LinkedIn. By sharing my experiences and insights, I aim to help individuals and businesses get a better grasp of IP issues.
Engaging with a broader audience helps me stay updated with the latest trends and developments in the field. It also creates a community of like-minded professionals and enthusiasts who can learn from each other. Through LinkedIn, I have connected with many such individuals who regularly interact with me.
I often get direct messages from people who appreciate my efforts to explain these complex topics in simple terms. It makes me especially proud when teachers tell me they use my insights to help them teach the subject more effectively. That kind of recognition means a lot to me.
I often find my associates and interns through this platform. While generating leads was not my primary goal, many of my clients have come through LinkedIn. Plus, the platform has allowed me to connect with the vibrant Kerala Creators community, which has been fantastic.
Being recognized as a LinkedIn Top Voice was such a pleasant surprise! I humbly accept it as a testament to my efforts, and it inspires me to keep contributing to the IP community.
Your extensive experience spans across various countries and cultures. How do you navigate the nuances of Intellectual Property laws in different jurisdictions, and what challenges do you commonly encounter?
Dealing with Intellectual Property (IP) laws across different countries and cultures can be quite challenging. However, many advantages made the experience rewarding. The basics of intellectual property are the same worldwide, which provides a solid foundation. The support from bilingual lawyers was invaluable. Working with Forbes 500 companies and their lawyers was a rare and valuable experience.
That said, the challenges were more significant than the advantages. Most Middle Eastern countries follow civil law, while many of my clients are from common law countries. This difference needed careful adjustment. Additionally, Arabic is the main language in most Arab countries, which introduces additional complexities. The judicial systems in these regions were still developing, with few established precedents. IP was a new subject, and there were only a few judges or officers with knowledge of it. Many countries were monarchies, making it difficult to resolve disputes, especially when the other side had the support of the ruling families. The bureaucracy was often not transparent or easily accessible, and there were significant differences in culture and values that needed to be addressed.
Despite the challenges, I survived and thrived, gaining incredible learning and exposure. It was a journey filled with learning and growth, and I continue to overcome the challenges.
In addition to your legal expertise, you’re also a Certified Mediator and a Distinguished Toastmaster. How do you think these skills complement your role as a legal professional, and how have they influenced your approach to advocacy and negotiation?
I have been a Toastmaster for around 15 years, and it has helped me improve my public speaking and leadership skills. In law, effective communication is crucial, whether it is presenting a case in court, negotiating with opposing counsel, or talking with clients. Toastmasters has made me more confident and articulate. It has also significantly boosted both my verbal and non-verbal communication skills, and my ability to handle unexpected questions or situations gracefully. It also taught me how to manage my time effectively and handle spontaneous questions during seminars, classes, and training programs.
I love mediation. It has always come naturally to me, but I decided to get certified later in my career to validate my skills. Mediation is all about finding common ground and facilitating communication between parties. It has taught me to listen actively, understand different perspectives, and work towards solutions that benefit everyone involved. This approach not only helps resolve disputes but also prevents them from escalating. It plays a special role in settling Intellectual Property disputes, which often demand time-bound solutions.
These skills have changed how I handle advocacy and negotiation. They have made me more understanding, patient, and thoughtful. I can better understand what everyone needs and worries about, which helps me make stronger arguments and find effective solutions. Overall, these skills have made me a better and more effective legal professional.
You’ve been involved in numerous high-profile cases, such as advising multinational corporations and assisting in preventing unauthorized use of copyrighted material. Can you share a particularly challenging case and how you navigated through it?
One of the toughest cases I handled was quite unusual. A Ministry in a Middle Eastern country, which was responsible for handling copyright matters, ended up using a copyrighted design from an internationally known magazine. The irony was that we had to contest a copyright violation against the very government department that oversees copyright issues! This made the situation delicate and complex.
After a lot of negotiation and presenting a strong case, we managed to convince the Ministry of the violation they had committed. They eventually agreed to rectify the mistake by removing the copyrighted design. This case was particularly challenging due to the involvement of a government entity, but it was incredibly satisfying to reach a successful resolution.
Given your experience in portfolio management strategies, what advice would you offer to businesses looking to safeguard their intellectual property assets in an increasingly digital and globalized world?
It is very important for businesses to regularly review their IP portfolio to keep track of all assets and identify any areas that might need attention. Registering IP, such as trademarks, patents, and copyrights, in all the places where they do business provides legal protection and makes it easier to defend their rights.
Monitoring the market for any unauthorized use of IP is essential. When working with third parties, using clear contracts that outline IP ownership and usage rights helps prevent disputes and ensures proper use. Leveraging technology is another great strategy.
Staying informed about changes in IP laws and regulations, both locally and internationally, helps you adapt your strategies to stay compliant and protect your assets effectively. Finally, seeking professional advice from IP lawyers and consultants can provide you with expert advice tailored to your specific needs and challenges.
On a personal note, what do you enjoy doing in your leisure time? Any hobbies or interests that help you unwind and recharge outside of your demanding legal practice?
In my free time, I love spending quality moments with my family. Watching movies together is always refreshing, especially when we find one everyone enjoys. I also value the time I spend with close friends; their company is always a joy. Listening to spiritual talks helps me find peace and balance, and I find it very calming. I also enjoy reading psychology books, which offer interesting insights into human behaviour. Attending Toastmasters meetings is something I look forward to as well. It’s a fantastic way to connect with like-minded individuals.
You’ve mentored many young law graduates and interns throughout your career. What advice would you give to the current generation aspiring to build a successful career in Intellectual Property or law in general?
Staying curious and always learning is crucial, as the legal field is constantly changing. Keep your eyes open and stay updated on the latest developments. Networking is crucial, so build strong relationships with peers, mentors, and professionals in the industry. These connections can provide valuable insights and opportunities. Gaining practical experience through internships helps you understand the field better and apply what you have learned. Patience and persistence are essential, as building a successful career takes time and effort. Being a self-starter and giving one hundred percent dedication to your work will make you unique. Loving what you do and always striving to improve will set you apart.
Suns Legal has recently completed six years, marking a significant milestone. Could you share some of the key achievements and challenges you’ve experienced during this journey, and how they have shaped the firm’s growth and vision for the future?
Celebrating six years at Suns Legal is indeed a significant milestone for us. We have had our share of achievements and challenges that have shaped our journey and vision for the future.
One of the biggest challenges has been keeping up with fast-changing technology, which requires huge investments. During our early growth stage, we were hit by the pandemic, which forced us to adapt quickly to remote working. We also faced extremely high competition, with undercutting and fly-by-night firms making the market tough.
Despite these challenges, we have had some remarkable achievements. We have built a diverse client base and formed extensive friendships along the way. Stepping out of our comfort zone has allowed us to grow, and we have focused on training young talent and absorbing them into our team. Building trust with our clients has been crucial, and we are now known as experts in our field. This journey has also allowed us to do things we could not do before.
Looking forward, we aim to develop the firm by focusing on quality and expertise. We plan to expand our team, embrace updated technology, and broaden our service areas. Our goal is to continue growing while maintaining our commitment to excellence.
Can you tell us about the beginning of your career in law? What inspired you to pursue this field and how did you navigate the initial challenges?
I’d be happy to share. My interest in law began at a young age when I interacted with a corporate lawyer in Delhi during my civil services exam preparation. He told me that if you wanted to be recognised as a good corporate lawyer, then you must have a Company Secretary degree along with an LL.B degree from a reputed law college. After having this dual qualification you may advise businesses and become an essential part of running them, which intrigued me. Being a first-generation lawyer without much guidance was challenging, but my passion drove me forward.
I studied BA History (Hons.) and thereafter decision to pursue the law and Company Secretary course was unconnected to my domain however my passion and dedication made it easy for me. Additionally, I pursued a Company Secretary (CS) course, deepening my interest in corporate law and governance. Law school was both challenging and rewarding. I specialized in corporate law and was drawn to courses like mergers and acquisitions.
The steep learning curve and balancing work-life demands were significant challenges, but internships provided invaluable practical experience. My first significant step was an internship with a prestigious law firm, where I gained practical insights and faced the realities of the legal profession. Mentorship from senior colleagues was crucial, helping me develop my skills and confidence.
You have both a CS qualification and an LL.B degree. Was Company Secretary your first choice, or did you always plan to pursue law? How do you integrate the knowledge from both fields in your practice?
Initially, I pursued a Company Secretary (CS) qualification to gain a comprehensive understanding of corporate regulations and governance, which I knew would complement my legal education. Law has always been my primary passion, and the CS course deepened my interest in corporate law and governance.
Having both a CS qualification and an L.L.B degree has been incredibly beneficial in my practice. The CS qualification provides me with a solid foundation in corporate law, regulatory frameworks, company management, financial part of transaction and business aspects. It also enhances my ability to analyse financial statements and other relevant documents of a company. This knowledge is invaluable when advising business clients on legal matters related to corporate restructuring, as it allows me to understand and navigate the complexities of corporate law more effectively.
Integrating knowledge from both fields enables me to offer holistic advice to clients. For instance, when working on mergers and acquisitions, my legal expertise helps in drafting and negotiating contracts, while my CS background ensures that all regulatory, compliance, and financial aspects are thoroughly addressed. This dual perspective enhances my ability to provide comprehensive solutions, making me a more effective and versatile legal advisor.
How has your journey been from a Management Trainee at Ashiana Housing Limited to founding Corp Legex? What key experiences shaped your path?
My journey from a Management Trainee at Ashiana Housing Limited to founding Corp Legex has been both challenging and rewarding. At Ashiana Housing, I gained invaluable insights into the real estate industry and corporate law. This hands-on experience in managing compliance and corporate affairs was instrumental in shaping my understanding of the practical applications of law.
A pivotal experience during my training was working on a major merger matter. This exposure to complex regulatory and legal challenges significantly piqued my interest in corporate law and mergers. Additionally, I observed that many in-house counsels outsourced their legal needs to law firms, which sparked my interest in the potential of creating a firm that could offer integrated solutions.
The combination of these experiences solidified my desire to specialize further in corporate law and establish a firm like Corp Legex. My goal in founding Corp Legex was to offer comprehensive solutions that combine legal expertise with corporate governance insights, helping businesses navigate complex regulatory environments. Throughout this journey, mentorship from industry leaders and continuous learning has been crucial, reinforcing my commitment to providing strategic, client-focused services through Corp Legex.
With extensive experience in corporate restructuring, what do you believe are the most critical elements to consider during such processes to ensure a successful outcome?
Successful corporate restructuring hinges on several critical elements. First and foremost, a thorough understanding of the company’s current financial health and operational structure is essential. This involves conducting a detailed analysis of financial statements, cash flow, and market position to identify the core issues that need addressing.
Secondly, clear communication with all stakeholders is paramount. Ensuring that employees, shareholders, creditors, and other relevant parties are informed and engaged throughout the process helps maintain trust and support. Transparent communication also aids in managing expectations and mitigating resistance to change.
Legal compliance is another crucial factor. Restructuring often involves complex legal considerations, including regulatory approvals, contract renegotiations, and potential litigation risks. Ensuring all legal aspects are meticulously addressed minimizes potential obstacles and delays.
Lastly, having a strong leadership team to drive the restructuring process is critical. Effective leadership ensures that the restructuring efforts are aligned with the company’s long-term vision and strategic goals, fostering a successful and sustainable transformation.
Fintech is an evolving field with unique regulatory challenges. Can you share your experiences dealing with fintech companies and the specific legal issues they face?
Absolutely. Working with fintech companies has exposed me to a range of unique legal challenges that are intrinsic to the sector’s rapid innovation.
One significant legal issue is the structuring of complex financial transactions. For instance, I’ve been involved in drafting and negotiating agreements for new digital payment platforms and blockchain-based solutions. These transactions often require careful legal structuring to address the intricacies of new technologies and ensure that all parties’ rights and obligations are clearly defined.
Intellectual property is another critical area. Fintech companies often develop proprietary technologies or algorithms, making it essential to secure patents and protect trade secrets. I’ve worked on securing intellectual property rights for fintech innovations and handling disputes related to technology licensing and patent infringement.
Additionally, navigating contractual relationships between fintech companies and traditional financial institutions involves addressing unique legal concerns. Drafting clear, enforceable agreements that account for the innovative nature of fintech services is crucial.
Having started Corp Legex just five months ago, how are things progressing so far? What are some of the initial challenges you are encountering, and how are you addressing them?
Starting Corp Legex has been an exciting and challenging journey. The progress so far has been encouraging. We’ve been able to establish a solid client base and our team has been working diligently to deliver high-quality services. However, like any new venture, we are facing hiccups, but our collective energies are moving ahead day by day. Ensuring that we have the right team in place has been crucial. We’ve been actively recruiting talented professionals who share our vision and can contribute to our growth. Additionally, we’ve invested in training and development to ensure our team is equipped to handle complex client needs efficiently.
We’ve established robust processes for continuous learning and internal collaboration to stay ahead in these areas. Additionally, we leverage advanced technology to streamline our legal research and analysis, ensuring that we provide precise and informed guidance on our services offered to client. This approach allows us to offer comprehensive and strategic legal support tailored to our clients’ needs.
Overall, while there have been challenges, we’ve tackled them head-on with a proactive and strategic approach. The response from the market has been positive, and we are optimistic about the future as we continue to grow and refine our offerings.
You co-founded Unmukt Udaan, focusing on child education and development in rural areas. How has this initiative shaped your perspective on the importance of education and legal awareness in underserved communities?
I come from very humble background and understand how access to quality education can transform lives. Unmukt Udaan is an initiative to give shape to my belief and hope to spread education to all corners of the nation. It’s not just about academic learning but also about empowering individuals with the skills and confidence to pursue opportunities and advocate for their rights.
The Initiative has highlighted the critical role that legal awareness plays in these communities. Many families lack basic knowledge about their rights and the legal resources available to them. This gap often exacerbates their challenges and limits their ability to address issues like land rights, access to social benefits, and protection from exploitation.
Our efforts to integrate legal education into our programs have shown that when people understand their rights and legal frameworks, they are better equipped to make informed decisions and improve their circumstances. This experience has reinforced my belief in the intersection of education and legal awareness as fundamental tools for societal development and empowerment.
With your extensive experience, what advice would you give to young legal professionals who are just starting their careers? How can they develop a strategic and business-focused approach to law?
For young legal professionals, my advice is to cultivate a blend of technical expertise and strategic thinking. Start by mastering the fundamentals of the law and continually seek opportunities for practical experience. This will build a solid foundation and help you understand the nuances of various legal issues.
Simultaneously, develop a business mindset. Understand your client’’ industries, their strategic goals, and how legal decisions impact their business objectives. Engage in conversations with clients about their broader business challenges and look for ways to align your legal advice with their strategic needs.
Networking is crucial. Build relationships with mentors, colleagues, and industry professionals to gain diverse perspectives and insights. Stay updated on industry trends and regulatory changes, as these can significantly impact legal strategies.
Finally, embrace a problem-solving mindset. Approach each case or issue with a focus on finding effective and innovative solutions rather than just legal answers. This will help you become a valuable advisor and contribute to your client’’ success, thus enhancing your own career growth.
How do you balance your professional responsibilities with your personal interests and hobbies? What activities do you engage in outside of work to maintain this balance?
Balancing professional responsibilities with personal interests is crucial for maintaining overall well-being. I prioritize managing my time effectively by setting clear boundaries between work and personal life. This involves scheduling dedicated times for both work-related tasks and personal activities.
One of my key hobbies is cricket, which I find invaluable for maintaining balance. I try to play on a regular basis and stay physically active, it provides a mental break from work. Cricket helps me in recharging and improving my focus and productivity when I return to work.
In addition to sports, I make time for other personal interests such as reading and traveling. These activities offer me a change of scenery and a chance to unwind. Regularly disconnecting from work and pursuing these hobbies helps me stay refreshed and motivated, ultimately benefiting both my professional performance and personal satisfaction.
Having worked with both domestic and multinational companies, what differences do you observe in handling legal issues across different jurisdictions?
Working with domestic and multinational companies has revealed distinct differences in handling legal issues across jurisdictions. Domestically, the legal environment tends to be more predictable, with established regulations and a clear framework for compliance. This allows for more straightforward legal strategies and risk management.
In contrast, multinational operations introduce complexities due to varying legal systems, cultural norms, and regulatory requirements across countries. This necessitates a more nuanced approach to legal issues. For instance, navigating different regulatory frameworks requires careful coordination and understanding of each jurisdiction’s specific rules, which can impact compliance strategies and operational decisions.
Multinational companies also face challenges related to cross-border transactions, such as differing standards for data protection, intellectual property, and labor laws. Addressing these issues requires a comprehensive approach, often involving local legal experts and tailored strategies to ensure compliance and mitigate risks in each jurisdiction.
Overall, handling legal issues in a global context demands adaptability, thorough research, and effective coordination with local legal teams to address the diverse regulatory landscapes effectively.
Could you share with us your journey into the legal profession? What sparked your interest in law and led you to specialize in international privacy law and corporate law specifically?
I started working as a business journalist in 1994, after graduating with a degree in commerce and economics from Bombay University (as it was called then). A chance meeting with a friend convinced me to study law, as I believed that it would improve my skills and help me become a better business journalist. (The Stock Market was still reeling from the effect of the 1992 scam and knowledge of various corporate and business laws would help.) So I enrolled to study at the prestigious Government Law College at Church gate, mostly, because it was close to my workplace and early morning classes allowed us to work all day. I signed up for a moot court competition within a few months of classes and I immediately knew that this is what I want to do in the long run! So I eventually quit journalism a few months later to focus on my law studies.
There were no privacy laws then – and my favourite subjects in college were the law of Torts, Contracts, Interpretation of Statutes and Private International law. I eventually joined Desai & Diwanji, where I was introduced to corporate commercial law, property law and commercial litigation. I wanted to become a counsel, so I joined the chambers of Snehal Paranjape and started my practice as a Counsel in the Original Side of the Bombay High Court. After a year and half I relocated to Bangalore, and as I did not know Kannada then (I am fluent now), I went back to doing corporate work and then moved in-house.
I worked for a few companies, setting up their legal function and then became the General Counsel of some large IT / ITES companies. Contracts and negotiations are the life blood and most important aspect for any corporate lawyer, and as the legal head, I was also responsible for supporting growth of the business across countries, mergers and acquisitions and compliance, apart from everything else that comes with the role. When I was the General Counsel of Minacs, the Company was acquired by Concentrix, and I set up the Compliance function at Concentrix. That’s about when GDPR happened and I was one person in the company who had no conflict of interest in taking up the role of the Data Protection Officer (DPO). So I learned all about Data Protection and Privacy and set up the privacy function. Gradually, we saw the introduction of Artificial Intelligence where the laws are even more challenging. I was also responsible to ensure that we had a framework in place to ensure ethical and responsible AI design. I learnt a lot on the job and it was very exciting and enriching for me.
In December 2023, I joined hands with my old friend, Rashmi Sharma, and we set up Kosmos Partners together.
So this is my career trajectory in a snapshot – property, corporate advisory, litigation, back to corporate transactions (this time in-house – mostly tech laws), corporate compliance and data protection and privacy, AI regulations and finally – back to practice.
You’ve had an impressive career spanning over 25 years, with significant roles in various organizations. How have these experiences shaped your understanding of international privacy law and corporate legal practices?
One can never understate the value of experience. Each and every transaction, incident, case or matter comes with its own learning. I was extremely fortunate to be at the right place at the right time and to handle the kind of matters I got to do. I was very fortunate to have the opportunity to handle quite a few mergers and acquisitions independently right at the start of my in-house career and that was a great learning. I negotiated a couple of very challenging multi-jurisdictional contracts with large corporations, who are known to be very rigid and unwilling to bend on some key terms, but we still managed to get excellent terms from them based on how we positioned ourselves. Some of these learnings taught me how to break up a problem into smaller pieces to solve it better, how to take a step back and understand the big picture, how to bring value to the table and demonstrate that, especially while negotiating.
I travelled extensively to negotiate contracts with large clients and also, as part of my role as the Compliance leader. This exposure taught me a lot about the laws and legal practices of many other countries, their cultures and also helped me understand the data protection, privacy and cyber security laws and practices in various countries. I also began to appreciate how law and privacy are closely linked to the local culture. I think it is necessary to understand the history and culture of the other country before negotiating a contract or working on compliances or data privacy requirements of that country to be more effective.
One of the biggest challenges is to try to help the business create business processes that comply with the laws of multiple jurisdictions without making it too complicated for the business.
I also learned how important it is to understand the business and its challenges before we try to teach them the law. Once we understand their challenges, as lawyers, we should partner with the business and help solve their problems in a more practical way, rather than preaching to them. Raising awareness of the laws and regulations among business teams is also very important for business lawyers.
Given the dynamic nature of data privacy laws globally, how do you stay updated with the latest developments and how do these changes impact your clients?
The only way to stay updated is to read, read and read. There are quite a few free online legal subscriptions that one can subscribe to, so one is updated of the latest regulations. Also, consider joining online groups and WhatsApp, which are good at information sharing, many of them are rather helpful too.
Could you walk us through a challenging case or project you’ve handled in international privacy law? How did you navigate through it and what were the key takeaways?
One of the most challenging project was during the outbreak of the COVID-19 pandemic, and having to support the business teams in moving to work from home in a very short time. We barely had time to understand what was happening and we needed to move all equipment to employees’ homes in multiple countries around the same time. These had privacy and compliance implications, which we had to deal with for each country separately. Not only that, every country / city / state kept coming out with various regulations and notifications, which a couple of us were closely tracking real-time.
Soon enough, the tech teams had to come up with tools to protect the security of the data that was to processed by employees from their homes, which had even more privacy challenges. Our challenge was to walk the fine line between protecting the company and its client data and confidential information and to ensure cyber security on one hand, while on the other hand, ensuring that we do not violate privacy rights. We had a great team that rose to the challenge very well. We had to understand the needs of the business, the proposed solution, its impact on privacy and then map it against the laws of each country, so we could then work with the teams on implementing a viable solution. The biggest takeaway from such projects was the importance of team effort. Understanding the laws, of course, was important, but none of these challenging projects are successful unless everyone comes together as a larger team.
In your opinion, what are some of the most common misconceptions clients have about data privacy laws, and how do you address them in your practice?
The largest misconception clients have about data privacy laws is that they are fully compliant since they are GDPR compliant. GDPR is considered as the gold standard in data privacy, but one does not need to implement GDPR across board indiscriminately. Some clients take pride in doing that. But the Indian privacy law is more focused on a consent driven approach, and if you needlessly implement GDPR for Indian data principles, you will anyway have to take a look at everything once again.
Transitioning to corporate law, what are some of the most rewarding aspects of advising on mergers and acquisitions or structuring financial transactions? Could you share a memorable experience from your career in this field?
I have handled and led quite a few mergers and acquisitions as the legal head. Though mergers and acquisitions are long, complex and challenging transactions, they are just the beginning. The real success of a merger or acquisition lies in the integration, that follows completion of the transaction. And to ensure that the integration is complete and thorough, one must ensure that the due diligence was as complete and thorough. More often than not, sadly, due diligence is left to junior lawyers, who may not even understand the challenges in the documents they have been checking.
One very memorable transaction for me, very early in my career was a deal where we were acquiring a company headquartered in the US with a subsidiary in India. The founder had passed and his wife was unable to run the business and hence selling it. There were quite a few challenges in the deal right from the start. We found tax issues and litigation in the due diligence, both in US and India. The seller wanted to retire and did not want to be saddled with any of the issues, especially in India, so she wanted us to buy the stocks in the holding company and take care of everything, while we wanted only to buy out all the assets so we did not have to deal with their tax matters. The negotiations, led by our CFO almost came to breaking point as we could not agree on the transaction structure.
Finally, we went to our CEO and I will never forget how he broke down the transaction into smaller parts and suggested why don’t we take the stocks of the Indian company as we can deal with their litigation here since we are local and set up a new company in US and buy out the assets there, and leave the Seller to clean up the tax issues in US since she was a local there, which was acceptable to her too. We had to look at the key pain points for both parties and resolve that, and it suddenly became a win-win for both parties. The same transaction also saw the Seller sacking her CA in the middle of the transaction. She had retained the CA to negotiate the transaction as well as vet the contract for her, but it turned out that he was not really providing her much support on the contract piece. After some time, she ended placing so much trust and faith in me that she would sign any document only if I confirmed that I have seen it and it is ok for her to sign. I had to remind her that I do not represent her, but she still reposed so much trust and faith in me to draft a fair document. That was a very overwhelming experience, and something I can’t forget.
As someone who has held leadership positions in legal departments of major corporations, what advice would you give to young professionals looking to advance their careers in corporate law and privacy law?
Young professionals should try to develop an understanding of the business and develop a strategic outlook.
For in house counsels, focus on developing a deep understanding of the company’s business objectives. This involves not only knowing the law but also understanding how it impacts the bottom line. Additionally, cultivating strong interpersonal and communication skills is crucial. The ability to build relationships with colleagues across different departments, and to articulate complex legal concepts in clear and concise terms, is invaluable.
Privacy lawyers, should necessarily try to develop some technical expertise. Beyond technical expertise, develop a strategic mindset. Anticipating legal risks and providing proactive solutions is essential for career growth. Seeking out opportunities to take on leadership roles, even at an early stage, can accelerate professional development.
Also, do seek out a mentor, take their advice, and learn from their experience. Later, as you grow in your career, please do mentor juniors. It is our duty to keep grooming younger lawyers and build a legacy.
Finally, considering your extensive experience and success in the legal field, what advice would you offer to fresh graduates aspiring to follow a similar path in international privacy law and corporate law?
This is a very exciting time for fresh graduates – especially with the rapid changes to technology that we are seeing and will continue to see. The most important thing is for them to work on building a strong foundation and develop a deep understanding of the core legal principles and business fundamentals. Secondly, build a global outlook. Both privacy and corporate laws transcend borders nowadays, so it is important to stay updated on the legal and regulatory developments worldwide. Last, but not the least, as lawyers, we have to be committed to a lifetime of learning. Although Continued Legal Education is not mandatory in India, it is something we owe to ourselves. In addition, it is necessary to build a good professional network, and develop skills in legal writing, drafting, negotiations and communication and try to align yourself with a field of law that you feel passionate about. Don’t do something because it appears to be the cool thing to do. Otherwise, it will eventually wear you down. Enjoy your work and you will continue to cherish it.
Can you share how you started your career and what motivated you to specialize in economic legislation and taxation?
I belong to a family of lawyers but I had shifted to Delhi and had been working with Corporate after completing my Company Secretaryship. The essence of economic legislations was interestingly fed into my mind and I kept on working over the same. My Father Late O. P. Jalan who was working as a Lawyer at Ranchi had a very decent practice in Taxation. In 1991 he suffered from a heart attack which led to open heart bypass surgery, after which he left his practice I took over the same and that motivated me to specialize in economic legislation and taxation. I started my practice with my appearances before the Income Tax Appellate Tribunal and took up complicated search matters. These cases created many points of fact and questions of law making the practice interesting for me.
You have defended many high-profile cases, including nationally known raid cases. Could you please describe one such case and the unique challenges you faced during its resolution?
There have been many interesting high-profile cases that I cannot disclose by name due to the importance of maintaining professional confidentiality. However, one significant case where I faced unique challenges involved the seizure of a shipment of jeera by the Income Tax Authorities in Gujarat. This seizure raised several critical questions:
Should perishable goods be seized by the Income Tax Authorities?
If such goods are seized and subsequently damaged, will the government bear the resulting losses?
In cases where the goods are partially purchased on credit, would the government assume responsibility for payment to the creditors? Additionally, how would the severe loss of goodwill be compensated?
The decision by the Gujarat High Court in this matter, which led to a clarification by the CBDT directing the Directorate of Income Tax Investigation not to seize stock-in-trade, was widely appreciated. The challenges during this period were enormous. Authorities wield significant power, and it requires great patience to maintain the essence of the subject at hand. A major challenge is preserving the client’s confidence, which can often be shaken by external factors and rivalries. Each situation demands a unique solution to address these issues. To navigate such complexities, maintaining the integrity and essence of the profession, along with the values of purposive construction, is essential.
As the Principal Managing Partner at O. P. Jalan & Associates Consultants LLP, how have you steered the firm to its current standing, and what strategies have you implemented to ensure its success?
I trust God and the values that the legal profession has. When I started this practice I preferred giving the same value to my associates whom I always respected, taught and trusted. In 33 years we have been conducting classes every week explaining the factual propositions combining them with the purposive interpretations. The value of team members has always been appreciated and rewarded and in return, my associates have been with me always. We have one of the lowest switch-over of our colleagues who join us and become our part. This is our major strategy of success.
You lead a diverse team of chartered accountants, company secretaries, lawyers, and cost accountants. What are the key challenges and rewards of managing such a multidisciplinary team?
Taxation, Direct & Indirect, Corporate, Economic Laws and Governance along with compliances require a diverse team and to have an in-house team with the interest of each person served, it becomes very simple for a coordinated approach to give results to the clients and command faith over the authorities. Leading a team with diverse interests becomes simple if the due given by each professional is appreciated and he is given the freedom to exploit himself for the best. This helps lead the diverse team. Challenges do come but they are resolved when the interest of each other is not compromised. It is not difficult to manage a multi-disciplinary team if a selfless approach is taken.
What advice would you give to young legal professionals who aspire to specialize in taxation and corporate law? Are there any specific skills or experiences you believe are crucial for success?
The most important advice I give to young professionals is not to focus solely on mere compliance but to understand the reasons behind why such compliances are required. In the field of law, advertisement and marketing are prohibited. I would advise young professionals to uphold the ethics of the profession and grow with the right values. The specific skills or experiences I emphasize include having an up-to-date knowledge of the economy and finances at the local, state, and national levels, and maintaining the right balance.
How do you balance your demanding professional life with your interests and hobbies? Can you share any particular hobby or interest that helps you unwind and stay motivated?
As one grows with the profession, the number of hours spent in the profession plus the sleep reduces the time for one’s interests or hobbies, but to balance the professional life one of the most important hobbies that I have is my regular morning and evening meditation which I never let skip. I look at the personal interests of my colleagues and in turn, my colleagues always take care of what I intend to do. Apart from this my interest lies in a bit of writing and a bit of teaching which I always do, that helps me unwind and stay motivated.
You have been involved in preparing various policy matters and representations before government authorities. Can you discuss a significant policy change you influenced and its impact on the legal and business community?
Many policy changes have been done through our efforts but in the current budget bringing back the Block Assessment in search matter has been a very significant policy change. The impact of this is a substantial reduction of litigation costs and harassment where a person is searched. This policy change also helps the constitution of ease of doing business in the business community. If you read my notes on LinkedIn, my contention would be held to be correct.
What do you envision for the future of legal services, especially in the realm of economic legislation and taxation? How do you think legal professionals can prepare for upcoming challenges and opportunities in this field?
The future of legal services in the realm of economic legislation and taxation is undergoing rapid change, as the economy is evolving very quickly, and interpretations of the law are also shifting with time. With the growth of the economy, legal professionals must work as a team, reducing individual interests. This can only be achieved if business opportunities are viewed as opportunities for the entire team. The team manager should consistently share knowledge and bring in new talent to stay updated and be part of this growth.
You started your career after completing your CS and later pursued an LL.B in 2011. What motivated you to pursue an additional law degree at that stage in your career, and how has it enhanced your professional expertise and practice?
I began my career as a Company Secretary, a role I consider to be fundamentally responsible for overseeing the economic legislations of a company. As an Officer in Default, I took on the critical responsibility of advising the Board of Directors. By 2009, Company Secretaries began to refer to themselves as Compliance Officers, focusing primarily on ensuring statutory compliance. This shift, however, seemed to limit the broader significance of the profession.
Chartered Accountants (CAs), Company Secretaries (CSs), and Cost Accountants (ICMAs) are all rooted in the law. Coming from a family of lawyers, I decided to pursue a law degree in 2011 to expand my professional scope and appear before the Hon’ble Supreme Court and High Courts. After completing my law degree, I obtained my Certificate of Practice (COP) as a lawyer and transitioned my firm into a multidisciplinary law firm.
You have been actively involved in economic empowerment through various roles, including as a founder trustee of DOX and Chapter Chairman of the Institute of Company Secretaries of India. Please share some insights about these roles of yours and how they have influenced your professional approach.
As mentioned earlier, my father was a lawyer, and my elder brother, Shri Jai Prakash Jalan, was a civil lawyer. My younger brother, Shri Abhimanyu Jalan, is a barrister and a partner at Clyde & Co LLP. My elder brother’s daughter and her husband are also lawyers, working as partners at Khetan & Company in Bombay. My son is an advocate as well, practicing in the Jharkhand High Court as my partner, and in partnership with Blacks & Whites, a law firm.
We have always believed in the importance of sharing and giving back to society. When our name became established, I thought of fostering a sense of brotherhood among the alumni of my alma mater, St. Xavier’s School, Doranda, Ranchi. To that end, a trust called DOX, comprising around 800 members, was created. This was done to give back to the society that has given us recognition.
Following this, I took on the Chairmanship of ICSI to promote the profession and inspire aspirants to not only become good professionals but to achieve excellence in their fields. My approach to this institution stems from being part of a joint family of four brothers, where we value each person’s professional acumen by acknowledging their individuality while maintaining a collective vision for the right growth. This philosophy has greatly helped me in keeping my professional agenda and approach intact.
Can you share with us your journey into the field of law? What initially inspired or motivated you to pursue this career path?
My journey into law was less about being a lawyer pr pursuing a career in law and more about pursuing something that I thought might be interesting and engaging to study. And here I was not wrong. While I was unaware of what the practice of law entailed, I was fascinated by the study of it! I took it up as a challenge and as a way to study something I enjoyed while I took the time to find my “true” career. My love for the field and its practice developed later, as I began to study more and engage with the subject matter in a more practical manner.
I discovered that I thrived on navigating the nuances of law and developed an analytical outlook on issues. I also found that I would get easily bored when things become monotonous, which is not the case with legal practice.
I’m always on the lookout for new challenges and the field I started my law career in (IPR) just happened to be one where things are constantly evolving. I also got to be at the forefront of new technologies and legal issues arising from them. The law was being developed in real-time as real-world problems from compliance and business issues emerged.
This dynamic environment, where I could apply the word and spirit of the law and provide practical, often creative solutions, was something I thoroughly enjoyed and loved. This passion has driven me forward for the last 16 years, keeping me engaged and motivated in a constantly evolving legal landscape.
You’ve had an impressive career trajectory. Could you walk us through some of the key milestones or experiences that shaped your journey in the legal profession?
Over the years, I have had the chance to explore various fields of law. My outlook as well as my career has been shaped by these diverse experiences and have significantly contributed to my growth as a legal professional. While the initial years of my journey were at a law firm, I have since worked in-house for several years as well.
Being at a law firm was quite a rigorous experience in the intellectual and purely legal aspects of my field. This is where I developed technical legal skills, gaining deep insights into Intellectual Property Rights (IPR) and understanding how it applied to different fields.
The transition to an in-house counsel role was, on the other hand, transformative. It required not only a shift in mindset but also your approach to problems. Working closely with business teams, I learned to integrate legal advice with business objectives, which in my opinion can only make you a more well-rounded practitioner.
This experience was incredibly rewarding as it allowed me to view legal issues through a business lens. The opportunity to collaborate with teams from diverse business areas and on multiple projects broadened my understanding of multifaceted legal issues.
These experiences naturally steered me in the direction of establishing WSA Legal, a niche practice focusing on IPR, technology, media, and data protection. Additionally, I have a keen interest in legal tech and developing processes that utilise legal acumen to make technological advancements in law. This has led me to work with the brilliant team at Curated LegalTech on developing some amazing legal-tech products.
These cumulative experiences have provided me with a broad perspective on the legal field and expertise, but also keep me engaged and fascinated.
Many people view law as a challenging and rigorous field. What were some of the challenges you faced early on in your career, and how did you overcome them?
The practice of law is both challenging and rigorous. Early in my career, one of the primary challenges I faced was the steep learning curve and the demanding nature of legal work. Handling large volumes of work with a high degree of intellectual engagement requires significant time management skills. You need to shift from looking at problems as hurdles and instead embrace a growth mindset.
Balancing physical and mental well-being in such a demanding field is also important and for most of us, not as easy as it sounds. In this, the role of mentors cannot be understated. They can help you thrive and achieve results even when you doubt yourself. I have been fortunate to have a strong and capable set of mentors and friends to guide me at all stages of my career – whether or not they come from the legal background.
Again, the change in outlook necessitated shifting to an in-house role was also quite challenging initially. Unlike before, my viewpoint had to expand and incorporate an understanding of business processes and goals into legal advice. You are called upon to be precise in answering complex questions and decisive in the way forward that you guide business in. You need to be engaged with your stakeholders and clients and can overcome these challenges if you grasp the business side and can communicate and collaborate with diverse teams.
Your expertise spans across different areas of law. Could you tell us about a particular case or project that you found particularly impactful or memorable in your career?
One of the most impactful projects in my career involved navigating the complexities of AI and its use by business in a specific area of operation which was earlier broken down into multiple steps and tedious and expensive review. This area was particularly challenging because the law is still in its nascent stages, and there were practically no precedents to guide new practices.
We had to innovate and provide resolutions, trusting that our advice would stand the test of time. The project required us to create a comprehensive framework, and SOPs and integrate risk mitigation for AI-driven solutions, ensuring compliance with existing laws while anticipating future regulatory developments. This meant developing novel legal strategies and creative solutions from scratch.
Working on AI from such an early stage was challenging but also incredibly rewarding. This experience also reinforced the value of integrating legal expertise with business strategy and working closely with technical experts, demonstrating that innovative legal solutions can drive business success even in uncharted waters.
In your opinion, what are some of the essential qualities or skills that aspiring lawyers should cultivate to succeed in today’s legal landscape?
Aspiring lawyers should cultivate strong analytical skills to navigate complex legal issues, excellent communication abilities to interact effectively with clients and colleagues, adaptability to respond to rapidly changing legal environments, a thorough understanding of technology and its implications on law, and a commitment to continuous learning to stay updated with evolving legal trends and practices.
The legal profession is known for its continuous evolution. How do you stay updated with the latest developments and trends in your area of expertise?
Staying updated on legal developments is crucial, but what I find truly enriching is engaging with individuals from diverse fields and gaining their perspectives, regardless of their connection to law. This fosters an open-minded approach and helps anticipate and adapt to changes that keep you at the forefront of your field. These interactions also cultivate a mindset that is innovation-enabling. Additionally, I believe it’s important never to be too proud to seek the guidance of mentors, whose insights and experience can provide invaluable direction in navigating complex challenges and seizing opportunities.
As someone with substantial experience in the field, what advice would you give to recent law graduates who are just starting their careers?
I would advise recent law graduates to focus on building a strong foundation of legal knowledge and skills through practical experience. Seek out mentors who can provide guidance and insights based on their experience. Stay curious and continuously seek opportunities to learn and grow professionally. Interacting and building relationships within and outside the legal profession can also be crucial for career development. Lastly, maintain a strong work ethic, integrity, and a commitment to delivering high-quality work—it’s often these qualities that set apart successful lawyers in the long run.
Can you share the story of how you started your career in law and the journey that led you to become the Founding Partner of MMA Associates and a Senior Panel Counsel for the Union of India?
Incipiently, my father encouraged me to pursue judicial services, however as I delved deeper into the field, I realized that litigation was where my true passion lay. Thereafter, I started my law career as an associate Advocate at Ahlawat & Associates, whereby I was afforded opportunities to appear before CAT and DHC, gaining valuable experience in service matters. Following this, I worked as a law researcher with former judge of Delhi High Court Justice VK Jain. This experience broadened my perspective on legal research and judicial reasoning, further solidifying my commitment to the field. After completion of this role, I joined SKV Associates where I specialized in consumer law and appeared in all the DCDRC’s throughout Delhi, SCDRC and NCDRC.
The next significant phase of my career was at ASA Legal Services LLP, where I joined as a senior litigation associate and after working there for a considerable period of 6 years, whereby I honed skills in litigation and advocacy, which prepared me for the next big step i.e. venturing into private practice. Founding MMA Associates was a natural progression in my career. It allowed me to bring together my experiences and insights to build a practice that prioritizes client-centric solutions and innovative legal strategies. Concurrently, I was honored to be nominated as one of the senior panel counsel to represent the Union of India, a role that has been both challenging and rewarding. In essence, my journey in law has been one of continuous growth and learning and each step has been a testament to my dedication and passion for the legal profession.
With your extensive experience in handling a wide range of disputes, can you discuss a particularly complex case you worked on and the innovative strategies you employed to achieve a favorable outcome?
In my career of 14 years, I have encountered numerous cases involving complex issues, however, most recently, in the capacity of a nominated counsel, I received an opportunity to represent the Hon’ble Delhi High Court in a complex matter (Karan S.Thukral versus Registrar Delhi High Court & Ors, WP(C) 6082/2019) which changed the landscape of how filings are done in all District courts in and around Delhi NCR. During the course of the matter, I embarked on an extensive study and research of the existing procedures, including the various modes and manners of filing, record-keeping, and the operational constraints faced by the courts. I delved into understanding the issues related to manpower shortage, space limitations, and how these factors affected the efficiency of the judicial process.
This experience reinforced my belief that the only strategy that is fruitful, is to ensure that there are no short cuts being employed and irrespective of what the eventual outcome is, one is working in such a manner that at all times the best foot is being put forward and 100 Percent is being given.
As a nominated counsel for the Hon’ble High Court of Delhi, can you share some insights into the unique challenges and responsibilities that come with representing such a prestigious institution?
Being a nominated counsel does come with its own share of responsibilities and challenges. One of the unique challenges in this role is the need to coordinate and communicate with multiple departments, to arrive at most appropriate solution.
Another key responsibility is to present these solutions before the Hon’ble Court, ensuring the same are both legally sound and practically feasible. This involves extensive research, thorough preparation, and a careful balancing of interests to ensure that the recommendations align with the broader objectives of the judiciary as well as public interests.
Additionally, representing such a prestigious institution demands a high level of professionalism and integrity. There is an expectation to uphold the values and standards of the court, which means being meticulous in your work, transparent in your dealings, and dedicated to achieving fair and just outcomes.
You have authored a book titled “A Girl with Brain Tumour – A Story with a Happy Ending” How has your passion for writing influenced your legal career, and what inspired you to write this book?
I am a cancer survivor. I was detected with brain cancer in 2019, which was a life-altering experience. My purpose to write this book was to educate people at large about the term “brain tumor” and how one can come out of it victorious. I felt a deep need to share my story, not just to chronicle the challenges and triumphs I faced, but also to offer hope and guidance to others who may be going through similar battles. I wanted to convey that, despite the odds, it’s possible to emerge victorious. Writing this book has been a therapeutic and empowering experience, allowing me to connect with readers on a personal level and inspire them with a message of hope and perseverance.
As someone who has transitioned from being a Legal Researcher to a Founding Partner, what key lessons did you learn early in your career that continue to influence your professional decisions today?
At the very early juncture of my career, I fathomed that a litigating lawyer needs to be a very patient individual and a very good listener. Patience and being a good listener go hand in hand, which gives you enough fuel to understand the perspective of the client and enables you to resolve the respective issue involved. Often as Litigators we come across client(s) whose sole desire is that their version of the issue/lis/dispute be heard and understood by their Advocate and once their counsel listens to them is gives them immense satisfaction.
What advice would you give to young lawyers who aspire to have a diverse practice area like yours? How should they approach building a career that spans multiple legal disciplines?
My advice would be to grab every opportunity to work with different firms/advocates/senior advocates during the nascent stage of their career in order to understand/fathom their inclination/path in a particular field of law. They should embrace versatility and remain open to exploring the various fields of law. Irrespective of what task you have been assigned be it inspecting a Researching Judgments, Inspecting Court Records, Assisting the Clerk(s) etc. consider the same as an opportunity to gain knowledge. Start by gaining experience in different practice areas, even if they don’t initially seem to align with your long-term goals. This exposure will broaden your knowledge base and help you discover your strengths and interests. No work is small or big, this is the golden period for budding lawyers and they should try their hand at everything and with time they will understand in which way they want to proceed. Furthermore, if a first generation lawyer like me can do it, then you also can do it but by being curious, adaptable, and willing to learn, which shall enable you to build a career that is both diverse and fulfilling.
Given the current legal trends, what areas of law do you believe will become more prominent in the next decade, and how should legal professionals prepare for these changes?
I believe that the concept of Mediation/Conciliation and other forms of ADR will become prominent, and more and more litigants instead of filing the case in respective courts, would pivot towards resolving disputes amicably with the help of legal mechanisms provided under law such as Mediation/Samadhan centers/Online Dispute Resolution Platforms established in each and every court.
Furthermore, with the advent and advancement of Technology in the recent times in the field of law, we have to embrace the same and be adept enough to inculcate it in our work environment.
How do you balance your demanding legal career with your personal passions? Please share some of your interests other than profession. How do these interests influence your professional life?
Personally, I think too much is made out of work life balance, there are days when your work has to be your absolute priority and you wouldn’t want to be any other place apart from your work, whereas there are times when one can afford some down time and do things apart from work, for me personally whenever I get the time I like to travel and explore new places. Movies are also a big interest of mine particularly thrillers and crime dramas, I also like to dance a bit and whenever I can, I like to indulge in it.
If you could bring about one change in the Indian legal system, what would it be and why? How do you believe this change would benefit the legal community and society as a whole?
The one change I would want in Indian legal system is to recruit more efficient manpower, on both judicial and administrative side, in order to streamline the pending cases which leads to delayed justice. This change would benefit the legal community by reducing the pressure on existing judges and court staff, allowing them to focus more effectively on each case. It would also lead to more timely justice for litigants, which is crucial for maintaining trust in the legal system. Simultaneously, digitalizing court processes—such as e-filing, virtual hearings, and electronic case management—would streamline procedures, enhance accessibility, and reduce delays.
This change would benefit the legal community by easing the strain on personnel and improving case handling efficiency. For society, it would mean faster access to justice, reduced case delays, and a more transparent legal system. Digitalization would also make it easier for people to interact with the court system remotely, making justice more accessible and reducing the need for physical presence in courtrooms.
MMA Associates offers a wealth of experience and expertise. Are there internship or mentorship opportunities available at your firm for aspiring legal professionals, and how can one approach you for such opportunities?
Yes. Any interested lawyer/law student can approach us at mmatassociates@gmail.com
Hello and welcome to another episode of Super Lawyer. Today, we have with us esteemed advocate Vishal Khattar, who is the founder of Patine Law Offices in New Delhi. He is also the Additional Advocate General for the State of Haryana at the Supreme Court of India. Welcome, sir, to our episode. Thank you for accepting our invitation and for being here.
Let’s start our journey of questions and answers in a more conversational manner. Sir, I would like to begin with a very basic question. When you decided to become a lawyer, how was that journey? What kind of challenges did you encounter when you started focusing on this career for yourself?
Just a small correction: the office goes by the name of Patine Law Offices. Now, I understand it’s a unique name. I attended a school where the alumni are called Patines, so out of dedication and affection for my school, I decided to name the office after it.
I’ve been a debater throughout my time in school and college, participating in several debates and declamation competitions. I earned some good distinctions and ranks in those competitions. As a result, one day, my principal—Mr. BBS Pathania, a great man—told me, “You will become a good lawyer.” However, being from a small town, the challenge was that I scored high marks in my matriculation exams, and since I was among the top students in the state at that time, my father’s expectations shifted. He wanted me to become a doctor.
I was a medical student in school, but despite my best efforts, I couldn’t make it to medical college. There were three colleges in my city, Rohtak: one for B. Pharmacy, one for MBA, and one for law. To avoid wasting a year, I applied to all three. When I didn’t get into medical college, I was accepted into all three of these institutions. Initially, I planned to pursue an MBA, but after discussing it with my principal, who advised me to go to law school, I decided to study law. He assured me that I wouldn’t regret the decision, and I believe he was absolutely right.
So, I chose to study law because I had an interest in it from the beginning, and it turned out well. I completed my five-year law degree at Maharshi Dayanand University in Rohtak. From my third year, I started interning in Delhi, and since then, I’ve been working here.
Sir, it definitely worked out for you. It seems the path was paved by your faculty, but you’ve made a huge name for yourself.
I was fortunate to be taught and guided by such learned teachers, my professors, and lecturers. I frequently visit my college to mentor students. They often ask, “Vishal, why don’t you come here more often?” I jokingly reply, “It’s because of all the extra blessings you’ve given me that I’m so busy. If you reduce your blessings, I’ll start coming more often.”
I did my final-year internship with a very good organization—sometimes called the most preferred employer in the world—General Electric (GE). They have a finance division here called GE Countrywide, and after my internship, they offered me a job. At that time, it was quite rare for my college to receive such offers, so it was a big deal.
In fact, it was the first campus placement offer received by our department. I joined GE as a legal analyst, though it was a contractual position. During one of the court proceedings, I was noticed by a professional who referred me to ICICI Bank. Early in my career, I joined ICICI Bank as the State Head Legal for Punjab and Chandigarh.
I gained experience with corporates, working at ICICI Bank and later with Tata Capital, where I was responsible for their North India legal operations. However, I never intended to pursue a lifelong career in the corporate sector, so I eventually decided to return to practice.
Sir, with such a trajectory in your career, when did you decide to start Patine Law Offices? What was the inspiration behind its establishment? What exactly sets it apart from others in the legal landscape? Additionally, if possible, we would request you to share some of the challenges and successes you’ve encountered.
See, If I talk about motivation, it always comes when there is a loophole in the system that you want to fill or a need in the industry. In the legal fraternity, we don’t use words like ‘market’ or ‘industry,’ but obviously, the driving and limiting factors are the same. However, I always believe in focusing on the positive aspects. There were good things happening, and we were part of those good things. So, we wanted to start something good on our own. It’s time that we should get independent. I should get independent.
So, we decided to start Patine Law Offices. The name ‘Patine’ and the email ID for Patine Law Offices were things I had already created during my final year. It was clear in my mind that every lawyer wants to be independent. We were just waiting for the right time, when we had some clients who could entrust us with work.
We started Patine Law Offices with a small 300 square foot office. Slowly, we have been able to serve clients from both corporate and non-corporate. We have a reasonable number of practice cases from non-corporate clients, as well as from corporates. In the corporate sector, we are involved in finance, banking, Fintech, and then also in the automobile industry. We have some e-commerce clients, and now we’ve started working in FMCG as well. Being a first-generation lawyer, I had to hustle for every client and for every bit of learning.
About six months ago, we started some operations in the UAE as well. We’re working for two clients in Dubai—one is a Fintech client, and the other is in renewable energy. So, we’ve started working for them as well. Every benchmark we’ve reached has been a story of hustle for us.
But I believe every first-generation lawyer has to go through that. You have to keep learning, reading, and seeking references every time. You’ll face rejections because clients tend to go for big names. This is a trend in our industry.
It’s like when you want to go for a bypass surgery, you’ll always ask who’s the best doctor. No one asks for a doctor who’s available; they want the best. The same principle applies to some extent in our profession—clients want big lawyers. But you have to find those who can trust you.
We were fortunate to find some clients who trusted us. Some corporate officers who had worked with me at that time knew how I performed, and somehow, things worked out.
So, sir, given this fact, you are holding currently, a very esteemed office of being an Additional Advocate General for the state of Haryana, at the Supreme Court of India, which in itself is one of the very prestigious things.
We would request you to shed some light on this particular role and the insights related to the responsibilities and how do you face the challenges, what kind of things do you do over there because that also will become an aspiration for learners as well.
For a litigation lawyer, it’s a very important milestone to have the opportunity at some point in their career to work for a public undertaking or the government.
When we talk about government panels or government cases, the documents, orders, laws, working methods, protocols, and hierarchy—these are things you can only learn when you start working for them. Like any other litigation lawyer, I was also looking for such opportunities.
So, when this position was advertised, I applied for it. I was fortunate enough to be appointed as one of the nine Additional Advocates General (AGs) for Haryana. My role involves handling cases in the Supreme Court.
So in these cases, in government work, there is a well-organized structure. Duties are well-defined, protocols are clear, and there is a very detailed bureaucratic structure. The protocols, documents, and their implementation are all clearly laid out. This makes it a great learning experience for any litigation lawyer working on a panel. Every case comes with its own challenges.
Sometimes, students or juniors who are close to us ask very genuine questions. They often ask, ‘What is the main challenge? How long will it take for me to become a good lawyer? How long will it take to become an independent lawyer?’ I remember something I learned from a senior at the Delhi High Court.
When I used to sit in the canteen, feeling worried, he would come up to me. Once, I remember discussing my concerns with him. He asked me, ‘What happened? You look very upset. What’s on your mind?’ It was 5:30 p.m. at the Delhi High Court. I told him, ‘I’ve been working so hard for two years, and though I’m earning, it’s not what I hear from seniors—about getting many cases, high fees, and having a good office.
He told me, ‘Look, our legal profession is not like an aircraft; it’s like a train. In a train, you have to stay on track. There’s no provision for overtaking. If you try to overtake, you’ll have an accident. There’s no going faster than your schedule, because if you do, you risk an accident. And if you slow down, someone will hit you from behind. All you can do is stay on time and keep moving. This is how a train operates, and this is how our profession works too.
Every day, you need to start at the same time, reach the courts on time, meet your clients properly, meet your deadlines, and do your research timely. If there’s a new law coming in, give extra time to study it. You need to keep improving. If you follow this schedule, just like a train, that’s how you’ll succeed in this profession.
And believe me,’ he said, ‘believe me, Khattar, every station will come. If you stay on track, you’ll reach every station.’ From this, I understood that perseverance is essential in this profession. You need to be consistent, regular, sincere, and disciplined. Whatever benchmarks are set for any professional lawyer, you will achieve them.
You know, my first mentor in Delhi was a Special Public Prosecutor. He used to speak to me in Punjabi and would say, ‘Khattar, you should know how to work, and then you should get work too. So these are the raw standard things we have learned from our seniors.
Absolutely beautiful standards and tried-and-tested tracks. The way they have taught you— ‘Kaam aana bhi chahiye aur kaam milna bhi chahiye’—is an absolute gem. Even running like a train is fascinating. But sir, you were ready to accept that as well, which is very important when someone is teaching or guiding you.
You took it as a challenge to follow this, and I believe that has probably been a key factor in your success. Sir, with all of this in mind and knowing that you specialize in constitutional law, what kind of thought process do you observe in the current generation? Since you encounter many individuals joining you as interns or juniors, how do you guide, train, or mentor them to contribute meaningfully to legal reforms and societal progress, particularly through constitutional law matters?”
Over time, as we began receiving more work related to commercial and marketing law, our main focus shifted to handling contractual and commercial cases—what we often refer to as ‘bread and butter.’ However, constitutional law has always been my favorite subject.
Whenever we receive a brief involving a constitutional issue or aspect, I make sure to keep that brief on my table and not delegate it to anyone else. This is a very good question and one of my favorite topics of discussion with new joiners in my firm. This perspective is something I learned from one of the great mentors I had.
He once quoted some lines from the Bhagavad Gita, telling me, ‘You are part of a bigger system. This bigger system means you are contributing to something larger.’ Let’s consider it in a straightforward way: A person whose rights have been infringed—whether by a family member, a government agency, or a private company—is unable to get what he rightfully deserves. He goes to a lawyer, and what does the lawyer do? The lawyer ensures that his case is presented correctly before the judge, and that justice is delivered to him. And not just justice, but meaningful justice—justice that is also executable.
As they say, justice should not only be done; it should also be seen to be done. So, justice shouldn’t only be on paper. This is what a lawyer does for such a person. If society is suffering from injustice, it is you who are ensuring, through your professional advice and service, that justice is imparted.
When justice is imparted, it restores balance. A society only survives and sustains itself when balance is maintained. Without balance, society will not survive for long; it will become chaotic. Therefore, young lawyers must understand that you are not entering this profession solely for its glamour or money.
You are not entering this profession just to become a good advocate. You must also realize that you are becoming part of a bigger system, and you will contribute to maintaining balance in society. The key to that balance, in this country, is our Constitution. You need to have trust in our Constitution.
You need to have trust in your country. Cursing the Constitution or the country won’t help. What helps society is having trust in the Constitution. The best thing the Indian Constitution provides is balance in society.
For the weaker sections of society, it strengthens them. For those who wish to speak for themselves, it empowers them. For those with different opinions, it empowers them as well. For state authorities and bodies that wish to work, it gives duties to the citizens toward those authorities.
It is a balance: you have rights, and you have duties. So, trust the Constitution. If you are able to work on and win some constitutional cases in the form of writs or public interest litigations, and make a difference through the orders you obtain from these petitions, you will be performing your duties in a more meaningful way.
Unlike many other constitutions that focus primarily on rights without emphasizing duties, ours strikes a balance. I may be wrong, sir, but that’s my understanding of our Constitution. The passion you’ve shown is overwhelming for me, especially when you discuss these matters with young lawyers. They also need to connect with societal progress as you do, giving back to society.
Sir, how do you involve or engage young lawyers, and how do you advise them on handling cross-border litigation or cross-border cases? Since you are involved in many domestic and international cases, I’m sure there must be some learnings that differ from how we work in India compared to how international entities operate in the legal field.
What insights or learnings would you like to share with the learners?
One thing I always make clear to anyone joining my firm is that you’ve entered a profession where, mark my words, the hard work required is extraordinary. When I say extraordinary, it is extraordinary. So if you want to run away, run away now, because you will never like yourself to be a kind of lawyer, wherein you will be spoiling cases of your clients, or him suffering losses because of your mistakes.
You might recall the recent NEET issue where memes were circulating about doctors who graduated that year making such mistakes. You don’t want to become that kind of lawyer. So, the first thing I make them realize is that today is your first day, and this is your first file.
There is no point keeping them busy for another year, just doing research, so that by the time they are in actual practice, they’re 28 or 29 years old and considering switching careers to pursue an MBA or GMAT. No, the only practice that we do here is different from other firms, and I have been a junior in many other firms also, so we allocate cases on day one only.
If not the entire case, then at least a part of it, so they have something to work on right from the start. Every day, you’ll find all my associates attending court, either virtually or physically, carrying the files. We are a pure litigation firm.
Another thing that I felt was missing in my previous experience with firms is the lack of interactive sessions. My associates expect me, as their mentor, to guide them on how a case should be handled. While I can’t do every time, I make sure that every seven to ten days, or every two weeks, we sit down together. I pick up one case or a specific issue, and we all gather in the conference room. I then explain the case, discuss how it’s being handled, and how it should be handled, along with some standard rules of drafting, pleading, and convincing—essentially, how these cases should be done.
Sometimes, I do this on an individual basis as well. This kind of one-on-one teaching and interactive session was missing during my junior ship at other firms. I always felt that if I’m working with a successful lawyer, I should benefit fully from their experience, rather than just being impressed by their performance.
So that’s what we are doing. And one thing we’ve noticed across all litigation firms is the new kinds of assignments we’re receiving. Corporates have now started thinking that since we are the lawyers handling their cases in court, where their agreements, contracts, and other documents are being interpreted by the honorable courts, we should be the ones drafting those agreements as well.
I believe it was around six years ago when we received an assignment from one of our leading passenger car manufacturers. They asked us to come to their office in Pune, stating that the redrafting of their agreement had to be done there. We were surprised because such assignments typically don’t come to us; they usually go to specialized drafting lawyers. But they explained that what needs to be included or excluded in the agreement is something we only learn in court. Since we’re the ones who defend and argue these points in court, they felt we should be the ones drafting the agreements as well. So, we conducted a two-day workshop and began the drafting process.
Now, this has become an additional task for my associates, who, while primarily focused on litigation, are also learning the art of drafting contracts.
And believe me, with both drafting and litigation coming under one banner, the outcome will likely be fewer litigations in the future. If you have a well-crafted agreement, it leads to fewer disputes, which will directly and positively impact the health of businesses in the country. This approach will also help reduce the burden on the courts.
As a small, first-generation law firm, we are committed to this idea. I believe there isn’t a single associate in our firm who doesn’t have a client assigned to them. Each associate handles at least one client, either independently or as part of a team of two to three people.
Wow! Sir. You are such an amazing law firm and the strategy is so good. Actually, the thing which you are talking about is absolutely innovative and it will rise to a standard where there will be lesser litigations related to it. You being so busy with all of these commitments, professional, and obviously your office commitment, then being an AAG as well is a bigger commitment.
How do you recharge yourself or unwind yourself from this kind of commitment centric approach? And are there any hobbies or activities which you keep on doing with your law office as well? Because obviously everyone is going through some of the other stress for sure. So how do you unwind yourself?
What kind of activities do you follow?
The way our schedule is, ma’am, this is a tricky question to ask a lawyer. Most of us might tell you that we play golf, but honestly, we don’t even have time for that. Let me share an incident I learned from one of my principal associates, Vandana. That day, someone was accompanying me, and I had a sudden change in the timing of a meeting.
I was back from court and was supposed to meet someone at 12:30 PM. The meeting got rescheduled to 2:00 PM, and this associate of mine was with me. When she returned, she was asked, “What does he do when sir’s meeting gets postponed by an hour?” She replied, “He goes to Connaught Place, takes a full round on foot, and buys some books.” The person then asked, “What happened? Why do you ask?” She said, “He took me with him, and we went walking for a full round.”
So, that’s what I do. If a meeting gets delayed and I have some time, I go to Connaught Place, take a full round, and visit some bookshops. It’s also a learning experience for young lawyers.
Read as much as possible. You never know when a topic will come up, and if you’re well-read, you’ll be ready with a response. The more confidently and content-rich you respond, the more it adds to your personality as a lawyer. The more books you read, the better you’ll evolve in your career.
In my free time, I read books. I still prefer older authors—I’m yet to be impressed by any new ones—and I hardly get any time. Although I have plans for the future, I’m not sure if they’ll happen. The best way to cool your mind and relax is to meet some friends at the High Court lobby and talk about this and that. After some time, we’ll end up talking about our children and how they’re growing up.
Other than that, we mostly talk about watches and pens.
Absolutely amazing and honest answer from your side.Yes, reading should be a favorite pastime for everyone. It’s a very new thing that everyone talks about everything around books. But if all of us will start sharing those wisdoms as well, it will help the people who work with us, although we talk about it, but somehow the books are not there in hands and I feel like that is something which I see only in High Courts and Supreme Courts that all our learned friends, they definitely carry books now. Earlier also it was the reality and now also.
Sir, given this particular inclination towards books and you’re always interested in reading and finding new books, many a times juniors or the new entrants, they have this particular point that we do not have this much to invest in this. How should we go ahead and do it? Sir, I would request you to answer this because we all have gone through this particular phase where we do not have enough to immediately buy so many books.
So how can we garner that particular reading habit? Probably you will be able to guide us through that as well.
When I started reading, I was in school and had access to a library. Later on, I realized that I could ask the librarian for a book I had heard about, even though there was no Google at that time.
All the new books’ information used to get published in Hindustan Times usually on the second or third page. I would tell my librarian about the book I wanted, and he advised me to write an application to the principal requesting it. When I went to university, I had access to a much larger library.
Then I began studying international law, but there wasn’t enough material in the central library at my university. So, I started coming to Delhi. I would take a bus from Rohtak to Delhi or a train that dropped me at Tilak Bridge, and from there, I would walk to the Indian Society of International Law (ISIL), which has an excellent library for international law. I also had friends who helped me access the Indian Law Institute (ILI) library. Delhi has some great libraries, and although books can be quite expensive, libraries are invaluable resources.
You know, if you start buying 10 books, for example, I can read around 10 books over a period of one to three months, it can cost around 3,500 to 4,000 rupees, which is not feasible for a young lawyer. We have WhatsApp groups, so why don’t we have a system for sharing books? My daughter does it.
I’ve noticed that my daughter, even though she’s a growing teen and doesn’t share everything with me, but I’ve seen that she shares books with her friends. Though there is an old saying, my father used to tell me in Punjabi: One who lends the book is a fool.
The one who returns that book is an even bigger fool. So, if you truly want books to be your friends, you have to follow one rule. I can’t recall the author’s name, but he once said, ‘Before buying a new coat, buy a new book.’ I think youngsters should understand this old-fashioned diversion of funds. If they grasp its importance, it will significantly benefit their careers. Especially considering those Gen Z slangs—they’re getting into them, and I wonder where these slangs will be useful. God bless them all
Books offer a profound way to understand the art of storytelling and the essence of contentment. They teach you how to balance a paragraph, a line, and how to learn from experiences that took place thousands of kilometers away from where you live. When you choose an author with the skill of storytelling, you can feel those experiences as if you were there. You can realize that this is so much richer than the 10- or 20-second reels or shorts we often watch, which are only made perfect after 20 or 30 retakes, right?
And the beauty of learning a language can bring so much. You’ve learned the language, you bought all the beads and threads from the market, and you made a necklace out of it. This is how a book is written. The author or the writer learns the language, gains experience, and talks to people. You know, writers are a different kind of species.
So they do wonderful things, beautiful things. If you get to see that beauty in a book, then let it imbibed inside you. Tomorrow, you will start performing more effectively because of those books. This proves the saying: before buying a new coat, buy a new book.
Sir, this brings me to ask you about your views related to technology. How is it helping us and our future grow in terms of legal practice considering everyone is skeptical about the disruption that technology has brought in. It has reduced our reading time and everything about technology’s impact on us is questioned.
How do you see it affecting legal practice as well? And what kind of future do you foresee that may help us grow? How do you get acquainted with technology better?
As far as litigation and other allied services in the legal industry are concerned, we have tried most of the technologies, including ChatGPT and research tools, as well as references provided by some companies. However, I have yet to find a satisfactory solution. I share this opinion with many of my friends and colleagues as well.
We have yet to find a truly helpful technology that would effectively bring about or disrupt this industry. The reason, I believe, is that a more humanely touch is required in handling matters and preparing briefs. Initially, when we started using ChatGPT, we realized that the volume and number of contracts processed even in a particular region are so vast that even an AI might fail. The main issue is that if you cannot properly customize a contract for a client, it is of no use. Even one small mistake can turn the entire agreement into a disaster.
The same goes for drafting your cases as well. So when it comes to technology, particularly the technology that is often discussed, I believe the real game changer is yet to come, if it is coming at all in the future. I have spoken to many AI lawyers and some AI experts, and it seems the transformative impact is still awaited. The good thing is that we started using resources like Manu Patra and SCC since college.
This paperless approach, which has emerged, has significantly reduced the burden of maintaining a law office. My office is almost paperless. As for law reporters, the new generation of lawyers never really used physical law reporters or books. Our fathers, who were not lawyers, had different practices.
So we never inherited those practices from them. The only difference I now see is that when we used to do research from books, we often ended up reading something extra as well. However, if a new associate or lawyer adapts to this modern method of research and also does extra research in their free time, these tools like Manu Patra, SCC, and other websites are very nice, well-organized, and their search functions are excellent. They are also widely accepted in courts. Technology helps everyone—it helps you, it helps me. We saw during the COVID days how technology kept the courts functioning. Now, we take all our briefs on our iPads and tablets, and we have many software tools that help us with note-taking.
As a practice, we often hold a pencil rather than a pen. But one thing, I don’t know why sometimes I think if, in another four or five years, when the next junior associates come to us, they might call me old school. However, believe we should not leave the habit to write, read, and read randomly also, anything.
Somehow, I have this belief in my mind that if you are using technology, you should not leave the habit of writing. Whenever a client comes, we take notes, we have journals. Even today I keep a journal in my own handwriting. So new lawyers who are joining this profession or are very much new to this profession should know, do not lose the habit of writing.
Do not lose the habit of reading and do not lose the habit of maintaining a file also if it is required. Let technology grow. I believe that tomorrow it can help us even more because today it’s only partly helping us.
Thank you, sir, for taking us back to that era of reading, writing, and taking journals. Sir, we are already towards almost the end of the interview.
We would request you, sir, to share some of your insights that you believe are essential for the new entrants or the interns who are seeking opportunities at Patine Law offices as well as others. And if you could share some insights as well about characteristics or attributes that you prioritize while selecting or taking the candidates to join your team.
One thing I always tell them is that lately, as you’ve also noticed, a lot of law colleges have emerged. I don’t know whether I should say this or not, but if you look at the quality of teaching, it has declined in these law colleges. You need to inform a law student about what the profession will look like so that they can start preparing themselves accordingly.
Students will come to us after completing 12 internships, and then I would ask them 10 questions, but they cannot answer 11 of them. The reason is that the idea being circulated to these students is that they need to do an internship at a prestigious place, but they are not asked what they have actually learned. Whenever I ask, they just say they’ve done an internship with this or that judge.
So what did you learn? They never used to tell us anything. If you don’t have anything to share, don’t include it on your resume. The first question I ask anyone applying to my firm is, How much did you score in your matriculation exams? Now, people will tell me, even my daughter, why marks are important? But they are important. It’s not that the subjects of matriculation and 12th grade are important.
What’s important is whether you were able to work hard and move forward. The academic performance you show us will help us understand if you can perform when given an assignment or not. A student who scored 65 percent in 10th grade but achieved 75 percent in 12th grade is more impressive to me than a student who scored 90 percent both times, because it shows that the student was able to improve and turn things around.
This is what he will be doing in this profession as well—interacting with police officers, district-level judges, high court judges, bureaucrats, and public prosecutors. He should not, however, say that he can only communicate with certain types of people and not others.
All students should understand that academics are very important. The second thing is that you need to work on both your written and spoken language skills. This is a profession where you cannot compromise at all. When I say language, I mean both Hindi and English. When you are talking about working in North India, you cannot compromise by saying I don’t know how to read Hindi Just because you learned in a convent. We have been taught by ex-army and navy officers. But one thing we know is that every language has its own glory and you have to learn it. Even today, there will be many drafts which will be coming across which will be in Hindi. So you cannot come tomorrow and say, I want an English version of it.
This is how I make the assessment for any associate or a young student who is applying for an internship or a job with our firm. I want this message to go to all young students: stop saying academies do not matter. The people who are motivating you on Instagram or those featured in shows like Shark Tank are often from IITs and IIMs.
You are law students, and IITs and IIMs are often the first choices for many. If you are starting in this profession, remember that it requires extraordinary hard work. You have to read extensively, work diligently, and be consistent. You also need to take care of both your mental and physical health. If you can manage all this, you are entering one of the world’s most wonderful professions.
From any point of view—whether it’s learning, building confidence, or earning—this is the best profession you can be in. The only condition is that the hard work required will be extraordinary. There is no compromise. It’s a railway track: you cannot overtake it or jump over it
Thank you for such an honest opinion and a beautiful enriching experience we have had so much learning today. Thank you, sir, once again, for being here and accepting our invitation at SuperLawyer I hope our learners will understand the critical importance of you saying all these things that you can not only depend on online learning, you have to get into the field and you have to be like railways where you cannot jump and race.
You just have to be on time and keep on moving. That’s the best possible advice you can get. Thank you so much, sir. Thank you once again.
Was pursuing law an inner calling for you, or did someone or something inspire you to choose this path? Please walk us through your journey to becoming a legal professional.
I have my mother to thank for me becoming a lawyer… but not in the way you are probably imagining. I was your typical college student, very sure of what I did not want to do; but not very sure what I wanted to do.
My mother is a Professor of Psychology and one of her areas of specialization is in career counselling. I turned to her for advice and learnt that I was best suited for a career in either law or journalism. While I enjoy writing as well, law particularly appealed to me.
Perhaps it was my love for mystery novels and crime-solving that drew me to law. At that time, problem-solving and law seemed intrinsically linked in my head. While I have since learnt that law is far more nuanced, the intricacies of it have only made it more interesting for me. Now, I cannot imagine doing anything else.
Your college notes have been a legacy for future batches at University Law College. How do you feel about this, and what impact do you think it had on the students who used them?
I had no clue that my notes would get distributed the way they did! When I first prepared them, they were a means of studying for my law exams. It was the practice in college for seniors to hand down their notes to their juniors. Like many other, I did as well. I thought the story ended there.
It was only a couple of years later, when unknown students started contacting me and thanking me for my notes, that I realized that they were still in circulation and had taken on a life of their own. It’s still a bit of a shock to be recognized for my notes. The most memorable time was when we had recruited a new associate in my previous firm and he was being introduced to the team. I was about three years into the profession at that time. On being introduced to me, he went “So, you’re Pallavi Bhogle who wrote all the notes? I thought Pallavi Bhogle was some old lady…..”
Other than being mistaken for an old lady, I will admit that I derive deep satisfaction from knowing that a lot of people benefitted from my notes. As the law keeps evolving, my notes may not retain their relevance for much longer, but until then I hope that they make exams a little more bearable for future lawyers.
Huilgol Law Chambers has been making a significant impact under your leadership. Can you elaborate on the major practice areas your firm focuses on and how you are helping to develop and support the next generation of legal professionals within your firm?
My partner, Sandeep Huilgol, who heads the litigation and tax practice in the firm is the true ‘captain of the ship’. He founded Huilgol Law Chambers in 2019 and laid the foundation stones for a successful practice. Sandeep provides litigation and advisory services in diverse practice areas, especially in taxation proceedings. He has also addressed numerous training programs on the Insolvency and Bankruptcy Code and has authored articles on taxation issues that have been published in tax journals.
I joined Huilgol Law Chambers in 2022 to head the corporate and commercial law practice of the firm. I advise on general corporate agreements, private equity and venture capital investments, joint ventures, mergers and acquisitions, legal structuring and labour matters. I particularly enjoy mentoring start-ups. There is a joy in seeing something grow from an idea to a business.
It is similar to the next generation of legal professionals. Watching a junior become the lawyer he or she was meant to be and knowing that you have played a small part in their journey, is a wonderful feeling. I enjoy mentoring and hope one day to find the time to teach as well. Being a mentor is a huge responsibility. Your mentor, especially your first boss, plays a big role in defining who you are as a lawyer. The way you think, the way you approach any deal, and even the way you interact with a client are all influenced by the person who mentors you. I am very conscious of this fact and actively remind myself of this every time I mentor any law student.
What motivated you to co-found Huilgol Law Chambers, and how has leading the corporate and commercial law practice been different from your previous roles?
There comes a time in every professional’s life when the only way to grow is to push yourself out of your comfort zone and take a risk. Co-founding Huilgol Law Chambers was the biggest leap of faith I have taken, in my professional life. I can truly say, there has not been a single day so far that I have regretted putting faith in my ability.
My previous roles prepared me well for this position and I had no difficulty in handling the clients and doing the legal work. The biggest learning experience was in handling a firm. Like a start-up, in the beginning, you have to wear every hat. I had to learn to handle the accounts, the administrative work, the staff and the everyday issues that crop up when you have your own business. It gave me an insight into what start-up promoters experience and reinforced my desire to help them and at least take the legal work off their plate.
You emphasize maintaining a healthy work-life balance. How do you manage to balance your demanding career with personal time, and what advice would you give to young legal professionals in this regard?
“Unfortunately, the legal industry isn’t naturally conducive to a work-life balance, so making that choice can feel like a compromise, especially early in your career. In India, unlike some of our colleagues overseas, lawyers are expected to work long hours and be available 24/7. The consequence of not prioritizing work often means missing out on promotions or pay raises. It’s a culture that I strongly believe needs to change—and we can change it! We should recognize hard work and dedication without glorifying overtime.
For me, achieving a balance has been possible due to the flexibility I have in managing my work schedule, coupled with incredible support from my family and colleagues. However, this balance is a recent development; I, too, spent years compromising on sleep and missing family events due to deadlines. It took time to learn how to work smart, prioritize, and eliminate unnecessary stress.
To young professionals, I would offer the same advice that was given to me: communicate. Speak with your law partners and clients about timelines, and set realistic goals. Once everyone understands the timeline for deliverables, you can plan your days and make room for personal time as well.
Can you discuss a particularly challenging case or transaction you’ve worked on, such as the acquisition of Funtoot by Reliance Industries Limited’s (RIL) subsidiary Embibe, and what unique insights you gained from it?
The Funtoot transaction is particularly memorable for me. Our client, Edreams Edusoft Private Limited, popularly known by its brand name Funtoot, was being acquired by its rival ‘Embibe’. Embibe had, at that time, recently become a subsidiary of Reliance. Being in the same business sector, and rivals no less, our client was extremely (and understandably) hesitant to disclose some of its more confidential information, as there was always the risk that the acquisition may fall through. This made the negotiation for us all that harder!
This transaction underscored my belief that for a transaction to be successful, there needs to be trust between all persons involved. The Funtoot transaction finally closed because the parties explained their concerns to their lawyers and trusted us to look out for their interest in the investment documents. As lawyers, we need to envision the worst-case scenario and protect from that. As parties, you need to envision the future and work towards that.
You regularly mentor start-up companies and their founders. What are some common legal challenges start-ups face, and how do you help them navigate these issues?
Start-ups often overlook the legal compliances that every company must adhere to, as their promoters are (understandably!) more focused on building their business. As a result, essential legal requirements, such as proper employment agreements or safeguarding confidential information, may be neglected.
A core area of my practice involves acting as the legal department for start-ups, helping them establish the contracts and policies necessary to operate smoothly. We create templates for the day-to-day agreements they’ll need and educate their teams on the importance of these practices. When start-ups receive contracts from other parties, they often pass them on to us for review. Our role is to ensure that no burdensome obligations are inadvertently accepted, while still protecting the start-up’s rights and maintaining positive business relationships with their counterparts.
You have pursued various diplomas and courses in different legal areas. How important do you think continuous learning is for legal professionals, and what areas do you think they should focus on in the future?
Continuous learning is essential for every professional, regardless of their field. There’s no doubt that knowledge gives you an edge in your career. However, I must admit that reading about the same subject day in and day out can become monotonous. This is why, alongside studying subjects directly related to my specialization, I pursued diplomas in other legal areas as well. Currently, I hold diplomas in IP law, media law, and cyber law.
There are so many fascinating fields within the law, each offering vast learning opportunities. Even though corporate law is my primary focus, my knowledge of other areas allows me to provide more comprehensive advice to clients and tailor contracts to better suit their business needs.
Having worked on numerous private equity investments, what are some of the most unique or unexpected challenges you’ve encountered, and how did you overcome them?
I have had the benefit of working on both sides of the table in private equity investment and this has helped me understand what each party considers critical or a ‘deal breaker’ for them. You would be surprised to see how this can change in every investment! Understanding your client’s motivation for the transaction is crucial. Once you understand this you will know where to push back to protect your client and where to compromise.
Having to compromise on certain clauses and explaining to your client the necessity of doing so can be particularly challenging. A contract that will stand the test of time is fair to both parties. This necessarily means that you would need to compromise on some of your asks in the agreement.
For me, taking the time to understand your client’s point of view and building trust with them is extremely important for you to be a successful lawyer.
In your experience, what are the most critical aspects of corporate governance and ethics that companies often overlook, and how do you ensure that your clients adhere to these principles?
Companies often forget that they are what they are, because of their employees. Employee agreements and employee handbooks are quite often a low priority for companies. Something to put in place to satisfy a condition precedent or condition subsequent in an investment document.
An employee can so easily make or break a company, and it is important to have a document clearly defining the relationship between a company and its employees. This protects both the employee and the company.
This is one area I try to regularize in all clients, especially my start-up clients. I find that when I give my clients a clear roadmap and put in place an onboarding and offboarding policy for their employees, it reduces the labour issues they face. The employees also have a clear picture of what benefits they can expect from the company and recourse if they do not receive what is promised to them.
Can you share the journey of how you started your career in law and the key experiences that have shaped your path to becoming the Managing Partner at TJA Law Chambers? Please walk us through your journey starting from selecting Law as a career and your time at NLU, Jodhpur.
My journey in law is deeply rooted in my upbringing in Nagina, a small town in District Bijnor of Uttar Pradesh. Despite our humble background, my parents ensured that we received a quality education from the best convent school in the district. As the youngest of three siblings, I was greatly influenced by my father, a dedicated lawyer practising at the trial Courts. Since the court premises were within walking distance from our home, I spent my summer vacations at my father’s chamber captivated by watching him argue in Court. My father noticed my fascination with court proceedings and envisioned me following in his footsteps, aspiring to become a lawyer in the Supreme Court.
Early Challenges and Decision to Pursue Law: Tragically, I lost my father when I was in the 12th standard. This loss left a significant void in my life and threw my future into uncertainty. Until I completed my 12th standard, I had no clear direction for my career path. Although I was a student of science, the influence of my father’s legacy and my desire to honour his dreams led me to opt for a career in law after completing my 12th.
Academic Achievements: I pursued 5-year law degree with determination and dedication, earning a gold medal for being the University Topper. This achievement not only solidified my passion for the field but also opened doors for further opportunities. In my final year of law school, I also enrolled in a postgraduate diploma course in Cyber Laws at the Indian Law Institute, New Delhi, which required me to travel to Delhi every alternate day. The travel experience in UP Roadways and retuning hometown by train was a time to remember. After completing my law degree, I worked briefly at the Allahabad High Court before deciding to further my legal education by pursuing an MBA-LLM at National Law University, Jodhpur.
Time at NLU, Jodhpur: Choosing to pursue an MBA-LLM degree at NLU, Jodhpur, was a pivotal decision. My time there was transformative, providing me with a comprehensive legal education and shaping my professional outlook. The diverse exposure to life experiences, meeting people from across India, and engaging in various activities significantly transformed my personality. Being from a small town, this meant a lot to me. The rigorous academic environment, coupled with opportunities to participate in competitions and internships, honed my analytical and advocacy skills. These experiences were instrumental in building a solid foundation in legal principles and practice, helping me build my practice and learn to read people better.
All these experiences of highs and lows in life left a fathomless mark on me and somewhere encouraged to make a bold decision to start my own law firm.
You began your career from High Court and subsequently held various managerial roles in legal departments before taking the Advocate-On-Record (AOR) exam and founding your firm. How have these diverse experiences across different legal roles and sectors contributed to your approach to managing and running TJA Law Chambers? What insights did you gain from each phase of your career that have shaped your current practice?
My journey in law has been marked by a series of diverse and enriching experiences that have collectively shaped my approach to managing and running TJA Law Chambers. Each phase of my journey has provided me with unique insights and skills, which I have integrated into my current practice.
I began my legal career at the Allahabad High Court, where I initially did my judicial clerkship under the able guidance of Mr. Justice R.K Agrawal, who was later elevated to become a Supreme Court Judge. This initial experience exposed me to the fundamentals of courtroom procedures, legal research, and the importance of meticulous preparation. It also taught me the value of strategic thinking and the complexities involved in litigation.
After completing my post-graduation, I joined various reputed companies as an in-house counsel like GMR Energy, Indus Towers Limited and Sterlite Power Limited to name a few. Working in-house was a distinct experience compared to practising law in courts. Supporting the organization and other departments from a legal perspective taught me a lot about corporate governance, compliance, and risk management. It also highlighted the importance of effective communication, teamwork, and aligning legal strategies with business objectives.
Before founding my law firm, I had a short stint at a law firm called Advaita Legal. My distinct experiences allowed me to understand the nuances of private practice, client management, and the importance of building a professional network. It reinforced the need for thorough research, strategic thinking, and delivering client-centric legal solutions.
Founding TJA Law Chambers: It was always my dream to have an independent practice, but being from a small town and without a godfather in the profession, it was challenging. Nevertheless, I took the plunge and founded TJA Law Chambers in late 2019 with no significant clients in hand. Shortly after, the pandemic hit, which for my legal practice turned out to be a blessing in disguise. Despite the global challenges, I received work directly from foreign clients, which kickstarted the firm’s growth. There has been no looking back since then, and we are now catering to companies like ONGC, NTPC, EESL etc.
Advocate-On-Record (AOR) Exam: With my dream to establish my law firm, I also aspired to establish my practice in the Supreme Court, fulfilling my father’s dream. To this end, I started preparing for the Advocate-On-Record (AOR) exam last year and cleared it on the first attempt. This credential not only enhanced my credibility but also deepened my understanding of Supreme Court practices and procedures. The rigorous preparation for the AOR exam honed my analytical abilities and reinforced the importance of staying abreast of legal developments.
What motivated you to pursue the Advocate-On-Record (AOR) examination, and how did your mentor or any influential figures support you through this process? What are your thoughts on the significance of the AOR exam in a legal career?
Establishing a practice in the Supreme Court was a way to pay tribute to my father and the values he instilled in me.
Self-Guided Journey: Unfortunately, I did not have the benefit of a mentor or any influential figures to guide me through the journey of the AOR exam. This made the journey more challenging but also incredibly rewarding. I had to rely on my self-discipline, determination, and resourcefulness. I meticulously studied the Supreme Court rules, procedures, and landmark judgments. I sought out study materials, attended relevant workshops, and engaged in self-study to ensure I was thoroughly prepared for the exam. Achieving success on my first attempt was particularly gratifying and reinforced my belief in the power of perseverance and self-reliance.
The AOR exam’s significance in a legal career cannot be overstated, as it enhances credibility, provides exclusive rights, contributes to professional growth, instils client confidence, and opens up numerous career opportunities. I am now reaping the benefits of becoming an AOR.
As the Managing Partner and Founder of TJA Law Chambers, what were some of the significant challenges you faced while starting the firm? Now, after five years, how has the firm’s approach evolved in handling complex cases, and what types of cases have become a focus for your team?
Challenges Faced While Starting the Firm: Starting TJA Law Chambers came with significant challenges, primarily due to the absence of a godfather or established network and the onset of the COVID-19 pandemic. These factors made business development and client acquisition particularly difficult. The pandemic restricted our ability to engage in traditional business development activities and necessitated a shift to remote operations. One of the initial breakthroughs was receiving our first assignment from clients in London and Luxembourg. This opportunity was crucial, as it involved negotiating and drafting high-stakes agreements across various jurisdictions, including China, Hong Kong, the UK, Russia, and Europe. This international work was a ray of hope, helping to establish our reputation on a global scale.
Adaptations and Strategies: Despite the pandemic’s constraints, working from home allowed us to save on office expenses, which was a critical advantage during the early stages. By focusing on delivering the best results for every assignment, we demonstrated our commitment and capability. This dedication paid off as our reputation grew, leading to subsequent opportunities and an influx of work. As a result, we were able to secure empanelment with prominent organizations such as ONGC, EESL, DERC, and Kolkata Port. These empanelments were pivotal in solidifying our presence in the legal market.
After five years, TJA Law Chambers has evolved significantly. Holding the prestigious Advocate-On-Record (AOR) designation, we are now well-positioned in the legal landscape. Our approach to handling complex cases has matured in several ways.
Our firm has developed deep expertise in representing corporate clients and handling complex legal matters across various sectors. Enhanced Services: We provide comprehensive legal services in areas such as energy law, regulatory compliance, dispute resolution, contract management and advisory services. Our practice now spans several key forums, including Arbitration, the Appellate Tribunal for Electricity (APTEL), various Electricity Regulatory Commissions, the National Consumer Disputes Redressal Commission (NCDRC), the National Company Law Appellate Tribunal (NCLAT), and the National Company Law Tribunal (NCLT), in addition to various High Courts and the Supreme Court.
Strategic Growth: The firm has strategically focused on building a strong client base and expanding our service offerings. Our growth is driven by a commitment to excellence and adapting to the evolving legal landscape.
Client-Centric Approach: We have refined our approach to ensure that we meet the unique needs of each client, providing tailored legal solutions and maintaining strong, transparent relationships.
Do you engage in any pro bono work or community service? How does this aspect of your career influence your professional perspective and personal satisfaction?
While we prefer not to disclose specific details, I want to emphasize that TJA Law Chambers is committed to supporting those in need. Our office is open to assisting individuals who are unable to afford legal services, regardless of their financial situation. We believe that everyone deserves access to legal representation and justice, and we are dedicated to helping those who face significant challenges.
It enhances our professional perspective, provides personal satisfaction, and strengthens our commitment to justice and community service.
The legal field is constantly evolving. What are some emerging trends or challenges in commercial litigation and corporate law that new lawyers should be aware of?
The evolving landscape of legal practice increasingly emphasizes the growth of Alternative Dispute Resolution (ADR). Mechanisms such as arbitration and mediation are gaining preference over traditional litigation, primarily for their cost-effectiveness and efficiency. Lawyers must grasp these processes to effectively navigate and resolve disputes, harnessing the benefits of ADR to better serve their clients.
Additionally, the impact of technology and artificial intelligence (AI) on the legal field cannot be overstated. AI tools are revolutionizing legal research, document review, and case outcome predictions, providing unprecedented accuracy and efficiency. Lawyers are encouraged to leverage these advancements to enhance their practice, embracing the future of legal technology.
Staying current with new judgments from the Supreme Court and High Courts is also crucial. As laws, such as the Insolvency and Bankruptcy Code (IBC), continue to evolve, understanding the latest judicial decisions is essential for grasping the development and application of the law. Regularly reviewing these judgments ensures that legal professionals remain informed and adept in their practice.
Could you share some of the landmark cases you’ve handled throughout your career and discuss the key challenges you faced in those cases? How did these experiences contribute to your understanding of the legal field and what lessons can current and aspiring legal professionals draw from them?
I have had the opportunity to be part of several landmark cases involving important questions of law. However, one case in particular stands out to me. While it may not be a landmark case, handling it independently had a profound impact on me.
This was at the inception of my independent practice. An elderly woman had her pension stopped due to a mismatch in her name in government records. This pension was her lifeline, provided due to her late husband’s job. I took up her case, but unfortunately, she passed away before it was resolved. Despite my repeated requests for an early hearing, citing her dire financial and health conditions, the court did not give serious consideration to expediting the case. This was a disheartening moment for me as it felt like our judicial system failed her.
The second notable case was my first as an Advocate-on-Record (AOR) in the Supreme Court. It involved the rights of homebuyers in the context of insolvency proceedings under the Insolvency and Bankruptcy Code (IBC). The issue was the denial of rights to homebuyers who did not file a claim form. The Supreme Court has issued a notice in this case, and its outcome could become a landmark judgment for homebuyers’ rights. This case is particularly challenging as current IBC provisions and Supreme Court judgments support the exclusion of those who haven’t filed claims. We are eagerly awaiting the court’s decision as it could introduce a new legal precedent.
With my limited experience in the legal field spanning over 14 years, I could say that every day presents new challenges, and as legal professionals, we must embrace and welcome them. You strive to achieve the best outcomes for your clients, but sometimes, due to court delays or other reasons, you might not get the desired relief. The important thing is to continue fighting for your clients with the same zeal and dedication.
There will be cases where you face strong opposition. If you have worked on the minute details and thoroughly prepared your brief, even if the law is not on your side, you will earn respect and recognition in the court.
Beyond your legal career, what are some of your hobbies or interests? How do they contribute to your overall well-being and professional performance?
I am an avid adventurer, thriving on the thrill of exploring the great outdoors. I have summited peaks reaching 16,000 and 14,000 feet, embracing the challenges of high-altitude trekking. My passion extends to biking, swimming, and playing cricket, as I constantly seek new ways to stay active and connected to nature. As a true nature lover, I find immense joy in travelling and discovering new places, immersing myself in the beauty and wonder of the natural world. This blend of physical and mental challenges has enriched my professional outlook, enhancing my ability to tackle complex problems and adapt to various situations with a fresh and dynamic approach.
With your vast experience, what advice would you offer to current legal professionals and law students who aspire to make a significant impact in their careers?
Though I feel I am still on my journey if I were to offer advice, it would be this: Embrace life-long learning, clearly define your goals, create a structured plan to pursue them and always be ethical. With dedicated focus and determination, you can achieve anything.
Hello and welcome to another episode of SuperLawyer YouTube channel. Today we have with us advocate Gaurav Dhwaj who is founder and managing partner of Dhwaj and Associates. His specialties are legal and regulatory practices which relate to telecom, media and information technology sectors.
Also commercial contracts, litigation and arbitration. Most welcome sir to our channel and thank you for accepting our invitation. I know you are a busy person. So I’ll quickly start with the first and very pertinent question. When did you decide to do law? How did you decide to become a lawyer and how was your school days and college days and the kind of experiences or inspirations that you got from there that motivated yourself to becoming a lawyer, the way you are today?
The floor is yours, sir.
Thank you very much, Divya. First of all, I am deeply honored to be on this platform and am happy to reflect on your queries about me, the profession, and my understanding of it. To address your first query, I would like to start with my school days.
I have always been energetic and excited to explore new opportunities, challenges, and experiences. Some of that enthusiasm is still with me. If there was any activity in school, whether it was a debate competition, essay writing, storytelling, or poetry, you name it, and I would be there, in addition to my studies, of course. I was a very participative student, involved in almost all activities. My childhood was quite eventful.
This approach continued through my college days. During this time, I was also introduced to the NCC, where I excelled in shooting and cooking—a unique combination. My school and college days were quite eventful and rewarding.
Regarding my motivation to pursue law, I am a second-generation lawyer. I completed my graduation in computer science with a Bachelor of Computer Applications (BCA) and was set to pursue a Master of Computer Applications (MCA). However, there are certain commonalities between my personality and the legal profession. I am driven by intellectual challenges, which are inherent in law. I constantly seek opportunities for continuous learning and self-improvement, both personally and professionally. My fearless approach to dealing with issues, developed through my active participation in various activities, aligns well with the demands of the legal profession.
When I seriously considered my career path, I realized that my personality and approach were naturally suited to law. Being a second-generation lawyer, I have always seen my father practicing this profession. He was a litigation lawyer and my role model, greatly influencing my life. His guidance helped solidify my decision to pursue law as a profession.
What a beautiful story. And the way you have said that he is your role model, it seems that yes, he has paved your way towards greatness, I would say. That being said, when did you decide to establish Dhwaj and Associates? And how was the journey? And how has it been till now with all the challenges I’m pretty sure you must have faced after the inception? And how have you built a name for this particular association?
I began my career as an in-house counsel with the Tata Group of Companies and the Bharti Group of Companies. After spending almost two years in these organizations, my journey with law firms began.
I have worked for some of the leading law firms in the country, holding various positions from junior associate to partner and head of practice areas. The journey has been very interesting and rewarding, and I would even say very enjoyable. I don’t hesitate to say that law and the legal profession are my first loves. After serving in almost all positions that a law firm has to offer, I decided to establish my own firm, Dhwaj & Associates. I started as a solo practitioner, but I have been fortunate enough to have a team of highly competent lawyers.
We currently have two offices: one in Delhi NCR and one in Bangalore. Having completed my first graduation in computer science and my second in law, technology and telecom law was a natural choice for me. Except for my first job with the Tata Group of Companies, I have always been in the telecom and IT space.
When I set up Dhwaj & Associates, my initial idea was to create a boutique TMT law firm. However, I was fortunate to meet committed and dedicated people who helped transform it into a full-service law firm. Today, we operate as a full-service law firm from our offices in Noida and Bangalore.
First of all, sir, congratulations on your achievements. I am confident that your success will continue to grow in leaps and bounds.
You mentioned that law is the love of your life, and this passion has rewarded you greatly, particularly through your leadership in law and your support for AMTRON and the Ministry of Information Technology, Government of Assam. This is indeed a significant achievement.
Could you please elaborate on your experience working on this project? How did you approach and manage the tasks, especially considering the involvement with the ministry? What strategies did you employ to overcome the obstacles you encountered while undertaking such significant work?
Connecting with AMTRON was one of the best moments of my life. Receiving an award is a subsequent recognition of the work and effort put into developing and helping clients.
My excitement has always come from connecting with people—helping, guiding, supporting, and handholding them in every possible way. I enable them to navigate the challenges of the legal profession and the transactions they are involved in, especially when they struggle to find legal solutions.
Awards and recognition follow naturally. I have never been driven by them; instead, I have always been motivated by connecting with new people with the pure intention of helping them with all the skills I possess. Meeting with AMTRON was one of those memorable moments.
I still remember being a speaker at a conference in Dubai related to the IT sector. This was over seven or eight years ago, and I spoke on the topic of interception, which was not a well-evolved concept in India at that time, particularly in the telecom sector. During that conference, I met the Managing Director of AMTRON, Assam Electronic Development Corporation Limited, which is wholly owned and controlled by the Government of Assam. He was the moderator of my session, and that’s how we got introduced.
After returning to India, I received a call from his office. They needed a corporate lawyer who understood the telecom and IT sectors for a transaction. They believed I had the capability to assist them. I agreed, and thus began my journey with AMTRON. Initially, they engaged me for legal affairs, and later, they involved me in regulatory work as well. Eventually, I was entrusted with handling not only legal and regulatory matters but also their international domain.
In terms of international work, I represent them in all overseas investments and incoming investments from abroad, taking care of legal documentation and actual representation.
This introduction to AMTRON allowed me to apply my legal expertise to real-world challenges and deepened my understanding of the intersection between law, technology, and both domestic and international business operations. I gained insights into the perspectives of international businesses entering commercial relationships with state PSUs, their sentiments about India, and the challenges they face. This experience provided me with a broader perspective and reinforced my commitment to leveraging my legal skills for public service. It significantly boosted my professional credibility and visibility within the legal community.
Listening to your story, it seems like your journey unfolded naturally, and you embraced it, ensuring your success along the way. It’s remarkable to see that, despite being a second-generation lawyer, you remain humble and openly acknowledge how opportunities came to you. Often, we encounter individuals who aren’t as forthcoming about their paths to success, especially in the legal profession.
Your humility stands out and has undoubtedly served you well, particularly in a relatively new field like technology law. It’s impressive that, despite having a BCA and then transitioning into law, you chose to specialize in technology law and have excelled in it. However, it seems that this specialization isn’t very common in the Indian legal fraternity, and there’s a certain apprehension about it.
With that in mind, could you please share with us how you started Dhwaj & Associates?
I started Dhwaj & Associates recently. After completing my initial 2 years as an in-house counsel, I joined another law firm, which is now the largest law firm in the country. I have worked with several tier-one law firms throughout my career. After spending 15-16 years in the profession, I decided to set up my own firm, Dhwaj & Associates. So, it wasn’t immediately after my 2 years as an in-house counsel; I worked for various law firms for about 14-15 years after that. After gaining substantial experience both in India and overseas, I decided to establish my firm.
Wow! Amazing, sir! Over your 18 years of experience with top-tier law firms, the Tata Group, and the Bharti Foundation, how have these roles shaped your thought process? When you started your law firm, there must have been something significant going on, as you mentioned you were a solo practitioner at the time.
How did you find the courage to take that step? What advice would you give to those who are interested in following a similar path but feel scared or skeptical about achieving the same level of success and outreach that you have? How did you plan your journey?
We would also appreciate it if you could provide us with a sort of roadmap, if possible.
Sure, I’ll definitely try. First of all, I would like to start with a word of thanks to all my former employers who trusted me, gave me opportunities to perform, and provided platforms where I could develop both professionally and personally. My experience working as an in-house counsel and as a private practitioner with various law firms has been invaluable and has significantly shaped my professional outlook. For a legal professional working in a law firm, it is crucial to understand the client’s perspective.
Coming from an in-house background helped me understand the pain points of business houses. It enabled me to step into the shoes of my clients and view the entire transaction or issue requiring legal help from their perspective.
I firmly believe in the philosophy that a business lawyer must understand their client’s business. Without adequate understanding, one may not be able to provide viable business solutions. Most of the time, our solutions are not just legal opinions, legal memorandums, or research notes. They are also for the management, who often do not have a legal background. Therefore, it is crucial that a lawyer’s approach aligns closely with the management’s perspective for the legal opinion to make sense to them.
Otherwise, these opinions are typically reviewed by in-house lawyers who then communicate them to the management. Thus, lawyers in law firms need to put in the effort to understand the client’s business, intentions, and pain points before starting any mandate or transaction.
Before joining a law firm, I was part of an in-house team where I regularly interacted with the business team. This interaction allowed me the freedom to ask questions that helped me gain a better understanding of the business.
I believe this understanding is vital for every corporate lawyer. One cannot start working on a document without understanding the business’s nature and the client’s intentions regarding a particular transaction. This sense of understanding, developed during my time as an in-house counsel, has been beneficial in my law firm journey and continues to help me today.
This is the ethos I want to embed in the DNA of our firm, Dhwaj & Associates: to prioritize the client, to serve the client by first understanding them, their business, and their pain points. This understanding is a prerequisite before starting any work on a transaction.
Your approach to establishing your firm and reputation over 18 years of practice demonstrates remarkable clarity.
As an in-house counsel and now as a practitioner, you’ve witnessed significant changes in technology. Innovations like IoT, AI, cloud computing, drones, and online gaming have profoundly impacted our legal framework.
Legislation is striving to accommodate these advancements. How do you approach these areas when clients seek your expertise, given that you practice in such a niche field, which is relatively new to many lawyers in India?
New generation lawyers are eager to understand how you have made a name for yourself in this specialized field with such ease. Was it your technological understanding alone, or was it your unique approach to understanding and serving your clients’ needs? We would appreciate it if you could elaborate on these aspects.
To be honest, I never thought about it until now. But since you’re raising this question, looking back, perhaps it’s a combination of a few things. One is definitely my understanding of the technology sector because I studied technology for about three years before taking up law. So, I have a solid foundation in the technology sector.
Over time, I also developed the skill set of merging facts and client requirements with the legal and regulatory framework of the country. Until you understand the facts and properly align them with the applicable legal and regulatory framework, it’s difficult to come up with a clear, fair, and legally accepted solution for the client. So, I think it’s a combination of these three or four things.
Now, addressing your query related to emerging technologies, I believe these emerging technologies, as you rightly said—IoT, cloud computing, online gaming, AI/ML, robotics—are significantly impacting the legal framework, creating both opportunities and challenges.
These technologies raise new legal issues related to data privacy, cybersecurity, intellectual property rights (IPR), and regulatory compliances. They have opened up new avenues that the law must now accommodate in its overall approach.
The advice I would like to offer is that it is crucial for everyone to stay informed. It’s also important to engage with industry bodies to understand not only technological developments but also the entire ecosystem around them, which includes the legal aspect. Engaging with professionals and experts is essential. Consulting with legal and industry experts helps understand the implications of new technology and ensures that the technology being implemented or introduced complies with existing legal and regulatory frameworks.
Adopting industry best practices is also important, especially in areas like data security, data privacy, IPR, cybersecurity, and regulatory compliance. Proactive risk management should be considered, which includes engaging with experts to identify potential legal, financial, and operational risks as early as possible and developing robust strategies to mitigate these risks.
By considering these steps, clients can navigate the complexities of emerging technologies and leverage the business opportunities these technologies can offer.
Sir, like you agreed to keep abreast with the new upcoming legislations and the kind of news which we get every day. Recently we saw the enactment of the new Telecommunication Act 2023. How do you see the impact of this particular act on the telecom sector, and what kind of advice would you be offering the companies to navigate if possible in this new regulatory landscape, I’m pretty sure you must have gone through it very thoroughly and we would request you to give some insights about it as well?
The new Telecommunications Act is a welcome development, as it replaces the outdated Telegraph Act that previously governed the telecom sector, including licensing for service providers. Enacted in December 2023, the new act received presidential assent and was published in the Official Gazette of India. On June 21, 2024, the government issued a notification partially implementing the act, putting 40 sections into effect. In this first phase, 39 sections of the act have been activated.
One notable improvement in the new act is its extraterritorial applicability, which was absent in the previous framework. This provision, introduced for the first time in the Information Technology Act of 2000, now applies to the telecommunications sector as well. Under the new act, if a person commits an offense or contravention related to telecommunications services and networks while outside India, they can be held accountable under this act.
Another significant feature of the new act is the framework for online dispute resolution. Additionally, it includes a comprehensive and evolved framework for penalties in cases of contravention. The act also does an excellent job of covering nearly all telecom-related activities, including secondary activities previously outside the scope of the old act. The previous regulatory framework had a gap between administrative regulation and technological advancement in the telecom sector. The new act aims to bridge this gap by encompassing recent technological developments and new services provided by the telecom sector.
Overall, this is a positive step forward. I am hopeful that the government will soon issue a second notification to fully implement the act. This legislation not only benefits telecom service providers but also has provisions directly benefiting users, contributing to the overall development and improvement of the telecommunications sector in India.
Hopefully, sir, we will see the entire act notified soon. Congratulations on starting this new initiative. As you mentioned on June 21st, it has come into effect with 39 sections.
Now, shifting focus from your professional life, could you please share how you maintain a work-life balance? We would love to know how you find time for your hobbies or recreational activities, allowing yourself a mental break from the stress and creating a peaceful space for yourself.
In my personal life, I consider myself very fortunate to have a loving and supportive family. This includes my wife, my sisters, my mother, and my children. I especially cherish the time I spend with my two sons, who are currently school-aged.
They play a crucial role in maintaining my sense of balance and sanity. The legal profession is incredibly demanding, and the level of commitment required is exceptionally high. It’s nearly impossible to completely disconnect from work, especially when you hold the role of managing partner at a firm. This position involves not only ensuring the quality of client services but also overseeing the firm’s operations. You find yourself juggling a multitude of tasks related to client delivery, human resources, technology, and management, among others.
Despite these challenges, I am grateful for the unwavering support of my family, the blessings I have received, and the joy my children bring to my life. Additionally, I have a passion for reading poetry, which adds another dimension of fulfilment to my life.
Wow! So you practically enjoy all of your serious work as well as poetry along with your kids. You keep your sanity intact. Sir, all that being said, we had a wonderful journey with your interview. To its very end, I would request you to let us know about your plans for Dhwaj & Associates and how you foresee yourself progressing in the direction of making it more national and internationally renowned because that is something that I guess is very close to your heart. And the kind of firm services, that we see today, how are you going to have a little different aspect or approach towards it? We would request you to share if at all you wish.
Yes, absolutely. Firstly, having been on both sides of the table, I have walked in the shoes of an employee, which gives me a deep understanding of their challenges and concerns.
This experience has influenced my decision to adopt an institutional approach rather than an individual one in setting up this firm. To elaborate briefly, when I say “institutional approach” over “individual approach,” I mean that while I may not necessarily aspire to make this firm globally recognized, I am committed to working with global clients.
Branding and establishing a name are not my primary concerns. Instead, I prefer to focus my energy on helping people. I firmly believe that success and achievement in this world come from connecting with a good set of people and developing the right skill set.
If you are surrounded by capable, like-minded individuals and you have pure intentions along with the necessary skills, success and recognition will follow naturally. The key is to cultivate the right skills, adhere to ethical practices, and focus on the core values of the profession. The essence of this profession lies not in building a global brand but in serving the client. This is a customer-facing industry, where the client is paramount. By addressing their pain points and providing effective support, the clients will, in turn, help build the firm’s reputation.
Therefore, my effort is not geared towards brand-building but towards creating a supportive institution. I aim to establish a firm that supports everyone associated with it, regardless of hierarchy. This is a people-focused firm. I emphasize to everyone working here that it is their firm and their office. Even if they move on to start their own practice, they are welcome to use our office space as their own.
For me, it’s not about fancy infrastructure but about the people. I am dedicated to attracting and nurturing competent individuals with the right skills. My belief is that if we focus on having the right people and serving our clients effectively, the firm will naturally build its own brand.
So ultimately you will be a brand courtesy to the clients that you will be serving. So Dhwaj & Associates is going to be a global brand and we wish you all the best for that. And thank you for agreeing to meet with us sir, it has been a very humbling experience and a very beautiful interview. Thanks for sharing your insights about it. Thank you, sir.
