Super Lawyer

Category: Interviews

  • Vasundhara Shrivastava, Legal Counsel, Cisco Systems on work experience as a Counsel in the Technology Industry

    Vasundhara Shrivastava, Legal Counsel, Cisco Systems on work experience as a Counsel in the Technology Industry

    Vasundhara Shrivastava graduated in Law from University of Bangalore in 2010. Having received a Gold Medal in Jurisprudence and being ranked 4th in B.A. Law Examination (among ~ 4000 students), Vasundhara joined IBM India on graduation where she continued till September 2015. Vasundhara has mainly worked on technology matters concerning IT Outsourcing, Cloud Services, Arbitration, Trust & Compliance and Environmental Law during her tenure at IBM. She has thereafter moved on to join Cisco Systems, where she is currently the Legal Counsel for India and SAARC region.

    In this interview Vasundhara answers to Rounak Biswas of SLS Pune the questions posed by Shafina Salahuddin of Calcutta University.

     

    What made you choose Law as your profession? Is there anyone else in your family who works in the legal field?

    I belong to a family of writers and freedom fighters. My father is an activist-writer and his writing focus on bringing out the pain of people who were forced to migrate in order to escape the misery of lawlessness. Thanks to him, the family dining table was a democratic platform accessible to the young ones in the family. It respected and protected our freedom of speech, and actively sought participation in decision making about issues that mattered to me. Reading and writing was always on top of the mind. It made me aware of various socio-political issues of that period. The constant debates in our home made me realize that the root cause of any trouble was the rampant lawlessness and the sole sustainable solution was law and order – interestingly, both were effects of governance and policies. I wanted to understand this better. Being a science student who loved mathematics, I was attracted to engineering as a profession.  It took me a bit of swerving and swaying but I soon followed my heart and decided to pursue law as my undergraduate major at the University of Bangalore, Karnataka.

     

    Which activities did you partake in? Please tell us about the manner in which you approached academics while in college.

    During college, while I focused on acing academics, I also leaned towards writing as my medium of expression. I went ahead and started publishing my articles and opinions on a range of issues from sexual harassment, role of media in democracy, child labour and women reservation bill to pharmaceutical patents – any issue that I felt deserved intervention and thought exercise from the angle of law and governance. Some of these were published by various law school journals, some were award winning essays and some won accolades from national and international organizations and in the process, my belief in law as a profession to bring about change strengthened. Academics was a keen interest for me but I was acutely aware to keep it related to the practical application. So I strived to developed an empirical and simple approach as opposed to the general notion of pedantic and intimidating legal language. During university exams, I questioned the conventional methods of answering. I believed that lengthy history answers could be reduced to simplified bullets and Sociology could be as objective as Physics. And I would say that my quest for being innovative in academics was well received! But I was aware that a smooth transition from a law student to a professional lawyer needed that extra push. First year onwards, I had begun to intern with various law firms and worked pro-bono for a few NGOs in Bangalore.  Essentially, I tried to push the boundaries of academics’ experience by designing it to match my passions and interests.

     

    What were your areas of interest during your graduation? How did you go about developing expertise and knowledge in these areas?

    I found laws related to media and technology particularly interesting. One was surrounded by real time legal and social issues in these areas. Social media was beginning to boom and technology was entering our lives like never before. The legal implications of such generation altering changes made me curious. To develop expertise and knowledge, I read whatever I could get my hands on and wrote passionately about such issues. My published essays touched upon issues ranging from Tsunami, Jyllands-Posten Muhammad cartoons controversy and the need for reforms in privacy laws to questions such as whether Novartis could patent Gleevac in India.

     

    What kind of internships did you do during your law school days?

    I did internships at various law firms in New Delhi (Trilegal) and Bangalore (Trilegal, ALMT Legal, Holla & Holla). These firms have a wide range of practice areas and this gave me an opportunity to work on telecom laws, patent laws, litigation, drafting, research etc. Internships were a great learning experience. It was less about knowing the right answers and more about pursuing the right way to derive answers to the unknown. I also worked pro-bono for some NGOs in Bangalore and these were long term associations. I was sensitized to matters of day to day importance, particularly related to women and children. These NGOs focused on children’s right to a quality education and happy childhood, women battling domestic violence and dowry. I conducted surveys and prepared projects suggesting alternative opportunities for children whose calling was not traditional but vocational schools.

     

    Did you find that your law school education had prepared you sufficiently for the many tasks you were required to execute during your internships and later at your job?

    Significantly but partially. During my undergraduate years, I often found myself questioning the niceties of legal language and its practical application at work. Our university education curriculum stresses on good academic record with limited focus on arranging internship opportunities for students in an organized manner. Being in Bangalore, the technology destination of India and home to thousands of start-ups, there was neither a better place nor a better time to pursue a career in technology laws. By third year, I had decided to work for technology driven companies as an in-house lawyer. So, I would say that college education was successful in helping me choose the course of my career as a lawyer. However, the details of the job were learnt on the job. I have worked from IBM and two years ago, I moved to Cisco. On-the-job learning has not stopped. There is no other way than to learn every day.

     

    You are associated with Mahila Dakshata Samiti (Pro-bono legal aid to women victims of domestic violence). How important do you think pro bono service is?

    One can’t stress enough on the need for pro-bono work, particularly for lawyers. While I believe that lawyers can provide genuinely the much needed help, the relationship is symbiotic. The amount of learning that happens through pro-bono work is phenomenal. It is an excellent way to give back to one’s community, it also provides a great means to develop one’s skills. We have to consciously block time on our hands for a wider range of pro bono and charitable work which is tangible and beyond our traditional work. To say the least, making a difference in someone else’s life will make you feel happier. Fortunately, all employers I have worked with encourage their employees in this area by running numerous campaigns and programs. They have tied up with various NGOs working in the field of housing and shelter, disability, education, hunger etc. where employees can work pro bono and make a difference.

     

    You’ve been a Professional Mentor for IDIA Scholars. How can interested students volunteer?

    IDIA has a Professional Mentorship Program for those who are interested in being a mentor to an IDIA scholar. When I wanted to be a part of this program, I got in touch with a friend who was working for IDIA. For those interested in volunteering as a mentor, it is important that he/she approaches this mentorship program in a structured manner to ensure that the experience is meaningful for both mentor and the mentee. Interested students can write to info@idialaw.com for details.

     

    You have published quite a few articles on social problems and were felicitated by the Governor of Karnataka for an essay on Child Labor recognized by ILO. How do you find time in the midst of your busy schedule?

    I enjoyed writing on issues which I believed, needed progressive laws. During college, I did not have to find time for it, rather it was what kept me busy. Recognition from the state government and organizations such as ILO was encouraging and at the same time, made me aware of the need to have a better understanding of my socio-economic surroundings.

     

    You are the Lead counsel for Channel Partners, Services and Commercial segment, India & SAARC. What are the roles and responsibilities?

    Cisco’s business model in India (and globally) is to serve its customers through its extensive world-class channel partner program, which means we sell our products and services primarily through channel partners. I handle legal and contractual issues associated with Cisco’s distributors, systems integrators and indirect channel partners. In the services and commercial segment, I advise our internal clients on the scope of our products and advanced services offerings (mainly network consulting and optimization), negotiate distributor and service agreements, apply commercial insight to deals and contractual structures in concert with other functions such as finance and service delivery, at all times aiming to provide legal advice that proactively enables business and at the same time helps to minimizes legal risk. Of course, there is always focus on ensuring adherence to internal policies and compliance requirements as well as critical aspects of anti-trust laws and anti-corruption that relate to our business model, channel partner and customer dealings.

     

    You were awarded the Prof. V.B. Coutinho Gold Medal for excellence in Jurisprudence. What is the mantra as most of the students have a tough time with it?

    I had heard enough and more about how difficult Jurisprudence was as a subject. Right in the beginning, I chose Salmond’s legal classic on jurisprudence and adopted an objective and inter-disciplinary approach to explain legal principles. While the classic legal language of jurisprudence could have intimidated me, a simpler and logical solution came to my rescue. Using Venn diagram instead of lengthy sentences to explain the concept of ‘joint and several liabilities’ in Jurisprudence was one such instance where being innovative and creative with concepts was appreciated by the evaluators. I was awarded Prof. V.B. Coutinho Gold Medal for the highest score in Jurisprudence in Bangalore University. These achievements gave me further hope regarding the possibility of innovation in law.

     

    You were Deployed on a prestigious IBM Corporate Service Corps (Aug – Sep, 2014). Please share your experience with our readers.

    (Top 500 global IBM leaders are deployed to address a high-priority social issue as a part of leadership development and CSR activity through a rigorous selection process)

    In 2013, with three years into my professional career, I was selected for IBM Corporate Service Corps Assignment. As IBM’s flagship CSR program (modeled on the US Peace Corps), CSC deploys top 500 global IBM leaders to address a high-priority social issue. I was one of the youngest member in IBM India to be selected for this program. In 2014, for two months, I was deployed in Taiyuan, China. It was a life-changing experience of community service coupled with leadership development with a team of ten employees selected from several departments of IBM across the globe. I braced myself to be tested on cultural awareness by this multi-cultural broth. Our client, the Department of Civil Affairs, Taiyuan was looking for coherent strategies to revamp its Community Centres. I focused on the elderly population of Taiyuan – old ‘empty nesters’ who would rather live on their own than go for professional nursing and care. I conducted surveys and interviews of the ageing population, and four weeks later our team had converged their stories into a summarized narrative, which was presented as our recommendations to the government. Sensitivity to cultural norms and enhanced inter-personal skills made it a well-rounded personal and professional journey.

     

    Previously, you were an Attorney at IBM India, what kind of work were you tasked with? What was a normal work day in your life like?

    I joined IBM in 2010, right after college. Honestly, it was a little overwhelming to be selected as an Attorney in a company known to have shaped a century! First few months at IBM were about training and education sessions. Later, almost seventy percent of my work was handling technology transactions with government and private customers which included negotiations and transactional advice. Rest of the pie was an interesting mix of issues around real estate matters, environmental laws, business partners and ad hoc general legal advice. I was with IBM at a very interesting time when the IT industry was witnessing the transition from traditional offerings to trending industry concepts like cloud computing, big data and Analytics. A significant time and effort was towards adapting to these changes through constant learning. Needless to say, I was fortunate to work in one of the best legal departments with brilliant lawyers and managers who had a significant role to play in honing my skills as a professional.

     

    We thank you for agreeing to this interview. As a concluding message, what would be your word of advice to our readers?

    Thank you SuperLawyer for this opportunity. It is a great medium to connect with the members of our fraternity. And this is rather a concluding thought that I would like to share with the readers – from being an outsourcing destination, we are now the third biggest start-up ecosystem in the world. For our country to sustain its technology driven growth, as technology lawyers, we must constantly upgrade our skills to support this transition. We cannot be lawyers in the traditional sense. We are expected to be business enablers, aware of the market trends, always learning on the job!

     

  • Saaheil Sharrma, Assistant Manager-Legal, HDFC ERGO, Mumbai on internships and his work experience

    Saaheil Sharrma, Assistant Manager-Legal, HDFC ERGO, Mumbai on internships and his work experience

    Saaheil Sharrma graduated in Law from in from Garhwal University in 2012. Back in his college, he was an ardent fan of mooting and went on to become the Vice President of his Mooting Society. Having quite a few publications to his name, Saaheil is also associated with LexisNexis where he has worked on big projects like that of Mulla series, Halsburys, Tannan and many more. He has also interned with the stalwarts of the Indian legal fraternity which helped him in acquiring a sound understanding of the legal world- the art of pleadings, oratory skills and application of Law.

    Currently he is the Assistant Manager-Legal with HDFC ERGO at Mumbai. He takes care of Civil and Consumer Litigation along with matters pending before Ombudsman at Mumbai and Pune. Alongside work, Saaheil is undergoing his LL.M. course with specialization in Corporate and Criminal Laws.

     

    In this interview, he talks to us about:

    • The importance of choosing the right kind of internship for you.
    • His association with LexisNexis
    • Some of his internship experiences.
    • Maintaining the work-life balance.

     

    How would you introduce yourself to our readers?

    I am a first generation lawyer who entered this profession by way of deduction. Given the fact that I hated medical and non-Medical, and clearing CA was next to impossible for me therefore, opted for the 5 year Law course. During that time, I also got fascinated with the Judicial system and how things work vis-à-vis Legislature and Judiciary. I finally ended up having a deep interest in the Constitution.

     

    What activities were you involved in your college?

    Well, college life back in Dehradun is still very close to my heart. Our beloved Principal Mr. Rajesh Bahuguna is very pro-active in co-curricullar activities. We have different societies in our college such as Debating Society, Moot Court Society, etc. I was initially selected as a mooter in the Moot Court Society in my 3rd year. I went on to become Vice-President of our Moot Court Society. As part of our beloved Principal Sir’s initiative, our College launched its College Journal with the name Dehradun Law Review on 26 November 2009 which was also given ISSN no. and I was one of its student editor from 2010 onwards till 2012. Paper Presentation competition is also one of the most sought co-currilcular activity in our college. In the event conducted by Dainik Jagran Newspaper across India, I went on to win 1st Prize in Paper Presentation for the State of Uttarakhand.

    Well, in the hindsight, things always look different and easy. I wish that I should have started mooting from my 1st year onwards. I believe the more you take interest in such activities apart from academics the better you become by the time you complete your graduation.

     

    Tell us about interning with Mr Raju Ramachandran, Former Addl. Solicitor General of India in the Supreme Court of India.

    Internship with a stalwart like that of Sr. Adv. Raju Ramachandran remains one of my biggest achievements without lowering the importance of other internships. It was my first internship in the Hon’ble Supreme Court in the year of 2011. As a matter of fact, since I had the rare opportunity of being attached to the then Hon’ble Chief Justice Mr. Justice Mukul Mudgal of Hon’ble Punjab & Haryana High Court, he was kind to me and referred my name to Sr. Adv. Raju Ramachandran.

    Working with Sr. Adv. Raju Ramachandran in the Hon’ble Supreme Court gave me the first hand knowledge about the working procedure & style of our Supreme Court. The skills which were honed while interning with him were drafting style in Supreme Court. The oratory battles were at display from close quarters and the preparation for conference with clients were the learning points at that point of time.

     

     

    How did you go about planning your internships?

    (Saaheil has interned with some great personalities of the legal fraternity.)

    Well, it is a matter of fact that I am blessed to be associated with starting from the then Senior Standing Counsel for UT, Chandigarh and current Addl. Advocate General of Haryana Mr. Amar Vivek to Mr Justice K Kannan (retd.), Judge, Punjab and Haryana Court, Mr. Justice Mukul Mudgal (retd.), Chief Justice, Punjab and Haryana Court and Mr. H. S. Hooda, ex-Advocate General of Haryana and Sr. Adv. Mr. Raju Ramachandran.

    If you see all these internships were pure litigation experience internships. I was very much clear about myself that I would start my internship from the practicing lawyer and once I am thorough with the working style of different courts only then I would apply for internship in any company/firm. I have seen many students who would start their internships in a haphazard manner with no co-relation to their knowledge of law i.e. year of law in law school and place of internship.

    I would say that choosing a right kind of internship is very much important. I started my internship from 2nd semester onwards with my Guru i.e. Mr. Amar Vivek. He taught me the rare art of pleadings, oratory skills and application of Law. While interning with the above mentioned Hon’ble Judges, I had the opportunity to learn the practice of law from the view point of the Bench. The research carried out by a sitting High Court Judge is entirely different from a practicing lawyer. The art of writing a judgment is quite unique and equally difficult.

    I can summarise by saying that having being blessed to learn from one of the stalwarts in our field it has made me more confident about knowledge and application of law at an very early age of my life. Although,there is still alot to be learmt, but, working with such personalities allowed me to develop right kind of approach that is required in understanding any legal issue in dispute

     

    How were the first few years after your graduation?

    Well, after graduating from my law school, it was tough for me to get accoustomed with the corporate world. Since I had largely interned with either lawyers or judges, so, frankly speaking I had no idea how a corporate legal department function. Initially, it was difficult for me to change from courtroom battles to boardroom discussions as in corporate world the decisions are largely guided by coporate policies and business relations.

     

    Give us an insight to your association with LexisNexis.

    Well, I started as an intern in 2010 with Lexis Nexis at their old office located in Okhla under Ms. Astha Dua Khanna. Initially I was trained to do legislation checks. Gradually, I was given work related to full editorial reading. It’s been a long association with them since 2010 and I feel indebted to Lexis Nexis for giving me big projects to work upon like that of Mulla series, Halsburys, Tannan and many more.

     

    As Assistant Manager-Legal with HDFC ERGO at Mumbai, what are your roles and responsibilities?

    I started working with HDFC ERGO last year. Being at the Head Office, your work profile is quite different from any other Regional Office. I take care of Civil and Consumer Litigation along with matters pending before Ombudsman at Mumbai and Pune. In addition to it, I take care of pan India MD legal notices, Execution and Appeal recommendation matters.

     

    What is your take on work-life balance?

    Well I would say “A busy man is a happy man”. Working in a litigation team comes with a hectic day schedule. My usual day at office starts with briefing my Reporting Manager with list of pending matters up for discussion which would include fresh complaints, legal notices, execution matters, etc. After, brief discussion is done by giving a snapshot of pending matters pan India with my reporting manager, thereafter, I would take up matters which require drafting of written statements, reply to notices, etc. In the evening, generally, I talk to my Advocates regarding our cases pending before various courts. Before, I call it a day, I always see which matters are listed for tommorrow. In addition to the above, list of matters pending for appeal recommendation and execution matters pan India is shared with my Reporting Manager and Regional Managers respectively.

     

    You handle Civil & Consumer Litigation with Ombudsman matters for Mumbai & Pune Region and pan India MD Legal notices. Tell us about it.

    Well, we have more Ombudsman matters than Civil and Consumer matters in Mumbai. In Mumbai, the matters do not linger for so long in Consumer Courts and therefore, it sometime becomes a little hectic when cases have back to back dates. The courts give short dates and adjournments are rare. Preparing a lawyer to cut out a first draft requires time. The case papers require in depth understanding and at the same time relevant user department is also asked to cull out relevant information. Once, it is done, then our panel lawyer is briefed and draft from him can be expected. Further, the draft sent by our lawyer is vetted as there may be some information which was not available earlier and/or specialized knowledge per se Policy wording cannot be expected from every litigation lawyer. Also, due care is required while replying to MD legal notice matters.

     

    What are the skills that you look for when you hire juniors/interns under you?

    Since, we can see now that field of Law is getting specialised in every aspect of law. Take for example, a lawyer practising taxation matters cannot be expected to take up banking matters or Insurance or Criminal Matters. Also, corporate legal teams which work on contract management will not have litigation experience. Therefore, one needs to be good in basic drafting skills. This helps a law student to further excel in future by undergoing internship in varied fields of Law. I feel in order learn the drafting skills one needs to start interning with a lower court advocate wherein all the basic drafting skills can be learnt and gradually one may assist a lawyer in the High Court and/or Legal Department of a corporate.

     

    What were the reasons for going for higher studies after having some work experience?

    (Saaheil enrolled with Panjab University under LLM course (2015-17) with specialization under Corporate and Criminal Laws.)

    It was a conscious decision after working in the corporate world for roughly 3 years. I was very clear at the time of graduation that first I will first work in some corporate and then only I will decide to go for Post-Graduation. I think it makes sense in a way that you can always come back and specialise in a subject of your liking after working in that field. Going straight for a Post-Graduation after completing graduation actually deprives one from practical knowledge and you are unable to clear interviews in absence of any pratical knowledge even after being Post Graduation in a specific subject.

     

    What would be your parting message to our budding lawyers?

    I would say that be privileged to be studying Law but at the same time give due attention to your knowledge of Law while being in College. The basics learnt in college would make your career. And lastly I would emphasize on that do not get bothered by your marks. In our profession, knowledge and understanding of Law is more important than high marks both in the interview and Court.

  • Reetika Walia, Legal Consultant, Salloum & Partners, Abu Dhabi, on experience Corporate Commercial matters in the Middle East

    Reetika Walia, Legal Consultant, Salloum & Partners, Abu Dhabi, on experience Corporate Commercial matters in the Middle East

    Reetika graduated in law from Army Institute of Law in 2004. Right after graduation she had the opportunity to work at the Supreme Court of India for two illustrious Senior Advocates, Dr. Pinky Anand, and Ms. Geeta Luthra. Thereafter, she worked at a few law firms in India for some time and then later she shifted base to the Middle East and have been focussing on Corporate Commercial matters.

    With fourteen years of work experience Reetika answers to Rounak Biswas of SLS, Pune, the questions posed by Anant Malaviya from NLU Odisha, on working with the top tier legal offices in the Middle East.

     

    How would you like to introduce yourself to our readers?

    I am a corporate commercial lawyer with almost 14 years PQE having worked in UAE, Oman and India. Other than advising on corporate commercial matters, my area of expertise lies in intellectual property, telecommunications, media and technology laws (IP & TMT). Over the years, I have had the opportunity of gaining diverse and varied experience in almost all facets of law. I kick started my career as a litigation lawyer in Delhi under the guidance of two of the best senior lawyers in India, Ms. Pinky Anand and Ms. Geeta Luthra. After my litigation stint, circumstances made me switch to the corporate world, more specifically trademarks and there was no looking back thereafter. Through the years I have been lucky to have worked with few of the best law firms in India, Anand and Anand for a very short stint, Fox Mandal, Bangalore, Lall Lahiri & Salhotra and as a partner at ALG India Law Offices, Delhi.

     

    Why did you choose to practice in UAE? Are there better career opportunities for lawyers compared to other places?

    End of 2010, I moved to Muscat, Oman as my husband was offered a job opportunity there. It seemed exciting and I tagged along! And there started my journey of working in the Middle Eastern legal market.

    After having worked in Muscat for almost 6 years at a Tier 1 firm, Al Busaidy Mansoor Jamal & Co. (AMJ), I moved to the Dubai for professional growth. Other than regulatory restrictions applicable in Oman in respect of changing jobs, I thought it was the right time to move on to a jurisdiction (UAE) that would have better job prospects and networking opportunities.

    I wouldn’t say UAE has better career opportunities, as that is very subjective and I think India is a booming economy, but yes the international, multicultural, progressive and fast paced environment surely sets it apart from other places. Additionally, it’s a great place to network and work alongside magic circle firms as well as other international firms.

    Being a very competitive market, I would say what would make one stand out and be successful in this jurisdiction would be their zest and enthusiasm to show their best by making most out of the opportunities granted to them combined with the opportunities one creates for their employer, the value one adds to their business.

     

    What are the key requirements for an Indian lawyer to shift her practice to the Middle East?

    There are no formal requirements other than being a qualified lawyer duly enrolled with the Bar Council. However, one cannot pursue a career in litigation in the Middle East, unless such practice is restricted to providing consultancy services. To establish a law firm in the Middle East, one needs a local partner and a licence to carry out such services. Additionally, it should be borne in mind that Middle Eastern countries are civil law jurisdictions and thus their legal principles differ from common law jurisdictions. Although the general principles of international corporate and commercial law remain same the world over, it is incumbent to understand and know the local laws and regulations in the jurisdiction.

     

    I wouldn’t however advise anyone to start off their career in the Middle East right away after law school or start off a firm in the Middle East without having gained adequate knowledge and experience of the local laws and the market.

     

    What role does fluency in local language (Arabic) play when it comes to career opportunities for lawyers in the Middle East?

    Knowledge of the Arabic language undisputedly opens up better career prospects for lawyers in the Middle East. However, there are many expatriate lawyers in this jurisdiction hailing from all across the world who are not fluent in the Arabic language.

     

    What do Middle Eastern firms look for Indian lawyers in particular?

    It is indeed difficult for Indian lawyers to find a job in the Middle East, specially a competitive jurisdiction like UAE. The international firms generally seek common law/US qualified lawyers which makes the market highly competitive and difficult to break into if you do not carry any foreign qualifications. However, one’s experience is also taken into consideration and if you are lucky, have amazing grades and work experience you are sure to sail through. It may be tough for newly qualified Indian lawyers to find opportunities in the UAE.

     

    How important is to attend global conferences as a participant and a speaker from a career perspective?

    I believe that lawyers need to be all-rounded professionals including possessing a zest for building long term professional relationships. One of the ways to achieve this is by investing in business development activities such as attending global conferences and networking events. Not only is it a great opportunity to connect with peers from the industry across the globe but conferences also provide excellent opportunities for lawyers to learn from the best minds and eminent people in the legal fraternity.

     

    What strategy should a law student adapt to make a career in the Middle East? Can you suggest some firms for internships to get exposure to Middle East legal work?

    As stated above, I wouldn’t recommend fresh Indian law graduates/newly qualified Indian lawyers to venture straight away into the Middle Eastern market unless they have acquired an additional foreign degree or have taken the QLTS and are qualified as Solicitors of England and Wales.

    Due to the difference in the legal system in India and the Middle East, it may be interesting to take up internships in the Middle East, however, I am not in a position to suggest any particular firms where one could apply for internships. In my experience, internships in Oman for Indian law students were usually secured through personal contacts.

     

    How did you get the opportunity to work with Al Busaidy Mansoor Jamal & Co?

    I sure was lucky to secure a job within one month of shifting to Oman from India. Although AMJ did not have any specific vacancy at that time, after seeing my profile, the Managing Partner at AMJ was kind and enthusiastic to take me on board to develop AMJ’s IP practice. By the end of 5 and half years, I was responsible for the IP & TMT practice at AMJ.

    I am grateful to AMJ for giving me my first break in the Middle East market and providing me the autonomy and requisite support to develop the practice area. I also had the opportunity to work with leading law firms and advise an impressive roster of clients like Apple, Red Bull, Porsche, Virgin Group, Facebook, Toyota, Walt Disney, Marriot, Google, HP, Accenture, Yahoo, Uber and Mitsubishi.

     

    What prompted you to shift to Salloum & Partners?

    As stated above, after having worked in Muscat for almost 6 years at a Tier 1 firm, I moved to UAE for professional growth.

     

    What can lawyers learn from your experience in getting high profile clients & maintaining client relationships?

    Advising clients in Oman has been the most exciting and creative period of my work experience. When I started working in Oman, few laws were still at a nascent stage, were ambiguous or were almost non-existent (especially in the IT and IP areas). However, as a progressive lawyer, I was able to successfully bridge the gap between the lack/ambiguity of legislation in emerging areas and the client’s business needs by providing innovative solutions and advice to clients and if required by liaising with regulators in Oman.

    The above went a long way in a maintaining positive relationship with my clients. In my view maintaining such relationships with one’s clients is key for a lawyer’s professional growth. When delivering any service, lawyers need to think out of the box and be creative to find well rounded solutions not only befitting the client’s legal needs but also their business needs.

     

    In the field of law what will make one stand out as an astute lawyer is their willingness to know more about and understand the ever-emerging concepts in the field and accordingly deliver strategic solutions/advice keeping in mind the client’s needs and business goals.

     

    Please tell us about Qualified Lawyers Transfer Scheme (QLTS) & how should one prepare for it?

    I am appearing for the first part (MCT) of the QLTS in July 2018. I realize the importance of qualifying as a solicitor of England and Wales to broaden my horizon towards having better career prospects in the international legal market including the Middle East. In my experience, it’s advisable to get study material from an accredited school who will provide you with very useful study material and practical tips to get through.

     

    Any career tips, cultural, social or economical for lawyers interested to work in the Middle East?

    Middle East is a good place to earn well. However, one should be aware that although countries like the UAE have big dreams to offer to expatriates at the same time the cost of living in the UAE is quite significant. Other countries in the Middle East may have social or political restrictions.

     

  • Pinky Anand, Additional Solicitor General of India, on studying at Delhi University and at Harvard, and on the formative years of her career

    Pinky Anand, Additional Solicitor General of India, on studying at Delhi University and at Harvard, and on the formative years of her career

    Dr. Pinky Anand is considered one of India’s top lawyers. She is the current Additional Solicitor General of India and a Senior Advocate. An alumna of the Campus Law Centre at Delhi University, she went on to pursue her LL.M from the prestigious Harvard University on an Inlaks scholarship in 1980. She recently came out with the much acclaimed book, Trials of Truth which is available on Amazon. In conversation with Manushi Desai, she shares her experience as a lawyer and the formative years.

     

    How were the formative years which resulted in such a strong yet warm personality?

    My parents were married very young. My mother’s sensible nature has rubbed on me and so has my joint family’s sharing and caring nature. I have grown up in the streets of Old Delhi and have fond memories of sharing everything with my family which is my support system and I greatly believe in the idea of balance which my family taught me. I further studied in a convent school and the values of discipline and good virtues were inculcated very firmly in my outlook. I endeavoured to participate in all extra curriculars, especially during the law faculty days where I was the student leader within BJP as well.

     

    How was your Harvard experience?

    It was an ambition to go to Harvard and I achieved it by providing a systematic approach. I was inspired by the movie Paper Chase based on Harvard. I applied for Rhodes actually, I did not get the Rhodes, however, the Rhodes committee recommended me to the Inlaks foundation and that’s how I got into Harvard. Years later, I was called back to Harvard to give a lecture which is when I stumbled across my thesis in the Harvard library archives which is a must read even now to know more about the concept of public policy in arbitration.

     

    How were the initial years as a lawyer?

    I am a first generation lawyer. After marriage, circumstances were different since my husband is a lawyer, my father in law is a lawyer, but the intial years were not the same. I did not have any benevolent hand in that sense which is quite a necessary part. However, I did not have as bad a struggle as I should have is because my friend Geeta Luthra, who is a senior advocate now and I started practice together. It was very unknown of women partnering with each other in the profession.

     

    How did you join politics?

    My tryst with politics started when I joined ABVP as a law student and contested the prestigious Delhi University Students Union (DUSU) elections. However, when I went to Harvard and later partnered with Ms. Geeta Luthra, politics took a back seat. This changed later when I headed the BJP National Legal Cell as the first woman convenor which gave me a chance to change people at a grassroot level.

     

    You have risen high in your domain and have even been named as India’s top influential women in a book. How was the struggle been?

    The principle struggle is not being a part of the old Boy’s club. There is also a prejudice against engaging women counsels. However, beyond a point when you prove yourself, you actually were acknowledged. You have to continue to be twice a man. So the demonstration effect and the visibility or your proving your mettle is something which has to be done at the first degree level. Having done that, you need to have people who kind of support you. My family is a very big support, my in-laws are very supportive and I think that’s a very important feature too, because professional life is a tough one.

     

    What was the tipping point in your career?

    I fondly state my tipping point to be the retainership we had from a Marwadi business group through which I got exposure to various kinds of cases. It proved that you learn far more on your feet than you learn from any text book. We got a wide exposure to wide variety of cases from that group not only in Delhi, but in various parts of Delhi. We used to go to various even district courts and in fact I think even trial courts.

     

    Why practice in trial courts when you could, as a Harvard graduate, have easily started in the Delhi High Court or Supreme Court?

    Trial courts are great fun! I think you learn the most there and you have to understand the set up of what law is about and how law is made. For young lawyers, you are trusted far more with the trial court cases than you are with Higher Court cases- so it was a relation you build- you go up the ladder. The ladder is a very slow one, like snakes and ladders – you go up and then you sometimes come down.

     

    What is the secret sauce to your success?

    I believe in confidence and determination apart from the support of your loved ones. There is constant juggling of the work life balance but it is important to set goals and challenges and strive to achieve them as well.

     

     

    This interview was taken by Manushi Satyajeet Desai. Do read her blog at desaimanushi.blogspot.in and follow her on @manushidesai on twitter and instagram.

  • Manushree Kaushik, Consultant, In-House Practice, Vahura shares her insight on the field of legal recruitment

    Manushree Kaushik, Consultant, In-House Practice, Vahura shares her insight on the field of legal recruitment

    Manushree Kaushik graduated in Law from Amity Law School, New Delhi in 2012. She had never thought of being a lawyer or a recruiter but being successful was her ultimate motto. Gaining diverse experience by interning at varied firms, soon after graduation she started working for Dua Associates, premier full-service law firm for a period of almost three years.

    Wanting to utilize her legal education and experience and at the same time to do something different, Manushree stumbled upon the field of legal recruitment. Since 2016, she has been associated with Vahura as a Consultant with the In-House practice group. She primarily focuses on hiring for corporates across sectors from junior level hires through to mid-level management on a pan India level. She firmly believes “Recruitment is not just about hiring talent; it is about finding and hiring the best qualified candidate in a timely and cost-effective manner.”

     

    In this interview, she talks to us about:

    • Her decision to switch from corporate law to legal recruitment.
    • Her intensive internships with some great dignitaries.
    • The difference she’s found difference between NLU and Non-NLU students?
    • And the skills she looks out for during the recruitment process.

    How would you like to introduce yourself to the readers?

    I am a lawyer by qualification and a recruiter by profession. I am a part of Vahura’s In-House Practice group. Currently, I am in a recruiting role wherein I focus on junior to mid-level hiring across sectors.

    I did not grow up thinking or dreaming of being a lawyer or a recruiter, I just dreamt of being successful. I had no lawyer in my family or even in my extended circle of friends but Law as a profession sounded fancy to a seventeen year old and so I was intrigued. I did a bit of research, got through law school and here I am. The journey has been wonderful and I am glad I chose this as a career. It’s only now that I realize that this education and all these experiences have made me a better person, the study of Law changes the perspective of how you look at people and situations around you.

     

    What is your take on internships?

    Internships are the best part of the entire experience. Law school will teach us theory and maybe to some extent practical (via Moot Courts) but the real world of practice is very different and you can only experience it when you are in that atmosphere. Watching a Senior Advocate being briefed inside his chambers, the relentless chatter at a law firm, happy lawyers, stressed lawyers, lawyers arguing in a court room while the judge is trying to keep calm, all these things cannot be witnessed at a law school.

    I think the primary motive of an intern should be to observe and learn as this will give you a platform to base your expectations on. Enjoy your internship and you will be able to make the most of it.

    I wanted to gain varied experiences,  I have interned with independent practitioners, law firms and public bodies and each internship was different than the other. Although I thoroughly enjoyed all my internships, the most enriching one was the first one. It was the first time that I was seeing and hearing the royalties of the Indian legal fraternity, it was informative but also thrilling and exciting to witness these dignitaries live in action.

     

    Describe your experience of interning in the office of Mr. Parag Tripathi, Additional Solicitor General, Supreme Court of India and also with Mr. Gopal Subramaniam, Solicitor General, Supreme Court of India.

    I have had the opportunity to intern in the office of dignitaries like Mr. Parag Tripathi and Mr. Gopal Subramaniam.

    I had just cleared my first year exams and in the vacations that followed, I was interning with Mr. Subramaniam. We were two first years in that batch of interns and needless to say, both of us were extremely overwhelmed. I was told by another senior that I was at the right place but my timing was wrong. I was too young to learn something from the office of a Senior Advocate, and I might not have learnt a lot about the Law but I definitely learnt something about being a good lawyer.

    Similar was the experience at Mr. Tripathi’s office. I was three internships old when I interned with him and his office consisted of a very friendly team and that stems from the fact that Mr. Tripathi himself is a very friendly person. He devoted individual time to all the interns and would make us feel important and involved.

     

    How were the first few years after your graduation?

    I joined the Gurgaon office of Dua Associates right after graduating from college. I spent almost 3 years at the firm and that is when I truly realized what being a lawyer is all about. I was an excited fresher, who was willing to take on any responsibility and my focus has always been on delivering results. For the initial few months, I was doing a lot of research work. I was surrounded by a lot of people who wanted nothing but the best for me and this included my team members at Dua. The partners and the managers were all very supportive; they invested their time and energy into my training. It built a strong foundation for me and that experience has helped me a lot in shaping up my career.

    The law school experience was limited in the sense that we did learn a lot about the Law but not so much about the real world practice of law. The internships did help to some extent but they are not even close to the real thing. I was only able to make the most of my education and training, after I started working full time as a lawyer.

     

    What made you switch from corporate law to the field of legal recruitment?

    (Manushree worked as a corporate lawyer with Dua Associates for three years.)

    It was in 2016 that I decided to take a sabbatical for a few months. I wanted to explore the possible options available to a law graduate.  Moving to another law firm was an obvious choice but somehow I was not fully convinced to do so. I also made attempts at a few in-house opportunities and during this entire process I was being approached by multiple recruiters. I enjoyed my interactions with them so much that I befriended a few. I started to learn about the recruitment industry and I was really intrigued by the profile of a recruiter. It was fascinating and risky at the same time. I wanted to utilize my legal education and experience and at the same time wanted to do something different. And recruiting lawyers gives me the perfect balance of both.

     

    As a consultant with the In-House practice group at Vahura, tell us your work profile.

    At present, I focus on junior to mid- level hiring across companies. Our client base is spread across the country and hence we get to work with clients on a pan-India basis.

    Unlike most search firms, we have a unique network within the legal and governance fraternity which allows us to access the best passive talent not visible to most.

    My role includes analysing the requirements of a job, attracting professionals to that job, screening and selecting candidates and helping them integrate to the organization. Coming from a legal background, it is easier to comprehend the needs of the clients in this industry and this enables me to provide them with the right kind of talented professionals. Recruitment is not just about hiring talent, it is about finding and hiring the best qualified candidate in a timely and cost-effective manner.

     

    Being in the legal recruitment domain, have you found any difference between NLU and non-NLU students?

    The NLUs have a very different way of imparting education and training to its students. They have very strict qualifying criteria, and the environment is highly competitive. Also, the infrastructure and other facilities provided to the students are better than other law schools. And the most important factor are the placements, NLUs are the preferred choice when it comes to placement with premier law firms and corporates.

    However, a student’s future as a lawyer cannot solely be decided by the law school. Stay focused on becoming a good lawyer and success will follow.

     

    What are the skills that you look for while filtering during the recruitment process?

    Usually, it is the resume that creates the first impression. A well drafted and concise resume is the first sign of a promising candidate. And you must know your profile by heart. Everything that you have claimed to do, you should have done it. No lying on the resume.

    Another key factor is the confidence. It is very important to be confident in your interviews. Only if you have faith in yourself, will the interviewer have faith in you. Also, make sure that you are able to communicate your expectations clearly. Do not sell yourself short and do not over commit.

    Students should work on building these skills and with the right amount of dedication and hard work; they will be successful in securing a position in the industry.

     

    What would be your parting message to the budding lawyers?

    Be true to yourself. Do not leave any stone unturned in the journey to achieving your goals. Set a target for yourself and keep going till you hit it.

  • Aakash Sharma, 5th Rank, UP Judicial Services-2016 shares tips and tricks to get a sweet taste of victory

    Aakash Sharma, 5th Rank, UP Judicial Services-2016 shares tips and tricks to get a sweet taste of victory

    Aakash Sharma completed his LL.B. in the year 2014 at Campus Law Centre, Faculty of Law, Delhi University. He went on to pursue an LL.M at National Law University, Delhi in 2015. After qualifying the UGC-NET exam, he taught Law as an Assistant Professor at Lloyd Law College for a year.

    Not lured by the fancy corporate jobs, Aakash got fascinated with the working of the judiciary as a judge is an independent arbiter upon the matter before him and does not have to take sides unlike a lawyer. Hence, to conquer his dream he started with the preparations from scratch without any coaching. He qualified for the UP Judicial Services – 2016 examination with 5th Rank.

     

    In this interview, he gives us great insights to:

    • The ideal time to start preparing for the Judicial Services exam.
    • His strategy for tackling and remembering the different provisions of Law.
    • Tips for facing the nerve-wracking interview.
    • And his motivational message to the aspirants.

    How would you like to introduce yourself to our readers?

    First of all, thank you for giving me this opportunity to connect with your readers. I did my Law from Campus Law Centre, University of Delhi in the year 2014. Subsequently, I completed an LL.M. from National Law University, Delhi in 2015 and also qualified the UGC-NET Examination the same year. I taught Law for a year, but destiny had something else in store. I was selected in the UP Judicial Services Examination 2016, commonly known as PCS-J.

     

    How did you gravitate towards Law?

    (Aakash completed his B.A. (Hons.) in Political Science from Kirori Mal College, University of Delhi in the year 2011.)

    I have often wondered what prompted me to take up Law. It now seems to me that the decision of taking up Law after pursuing graduation in Political Science was utterly providence. While subconsciously, I used to find Law and legal process intriguing as a child. But unbeknownst to me, I have somehow drifted to it. Law is a fascinating discipline because it is so dynamic. Every day is an exciting day in law. The credit really goes to my teachers. Prof. Rajiv Khanna, Prof. Usha Tandon and Prof. Raman Mittal at Delhi University; and Prof. Mrinal Satish, Prof. B B Pandey and Prof. M.P. Singh at NLU Delhi. These teachers made Law interesting and turned my initial intrigue for Law into endearment.

     

    Did you focus only on academics in college life?

    I maintained a healthy balance between co-curricular activities and academics. I was designated the Student Convener of the Seminar & Discussion Society after winning the college debating competition at Campus Law Centre. I used to organize weekly discussions on bills, legislations and judgments. The real secret of excelling in academics is a deadly mix of self-discipline, being attentive in class, making your own notes, reading the best authors, mastering the bare acts and leading judgments, and avoiding cheap guide-books and coaching institutes like the plague.

     

    What made you choose to serve the Judiciary; did you not get tempted by the fancy corporate jobs?

    Every facet of Law is enjoyable. I chose judicial services because a judge is an independent arbiter upon the matter before him. He need not take sides like a lawyer. I found this especially attractive about judicial services. As far as corporate job is concerned, I got a taste of corporate practice during my internship days and found that it was not my calling.

     

    Do you think an LL.M. candidate gets leverage to the rest appearing for the Judicial Services?

    Yes, having an LL.M. is definitely advantageous. LL.M. at NLU Delhi is a very rigorous and advanced degree wherein you not only learn the Law, but you critically assess and deeply scrutinize it. This deconstruction of Law is not done as thoroughly in LL.B. As far as leverage over other aspirants is concerned, LL.M. will make you “think” about Laws and not just “know” the Laws; it will improve your writing skills and make you cognizant of legal theory and philosophy. Therefore, an LL.M. candidate has better grasp on the subject over the rest appearing in Judicial Services.

     

    When should a person ideally start preparing for the Judicial Services exam?

    Nobody can really be very confident that he/she will positively succeed in an exam where the success ratio is 1:200 or a mere 0.005% so I was simultaneously working as an Assistant Professor to have a steady income and a stable back-up if my efforts don’t bear fruition. I did not take coaching. I made my own notes from scratch. It was a painstaking job. Preparation for judicial services can informally start from the law school itself once the candidate has diligently read all the landmark cases in the various subjects. One should also cultivate a rational and reasonable world view and should be able to have independent opinions which are free from any bias. This exam requires utmost dedication from the candidate. It requires at least 1-2 years of dedicated preparation if you are starting from scratch. On the other hand, if you were paying attention in college itself and actually studied from cases and bare acts and not guidebooks, you can clear the exam with 6 months of preparation also.

     

    How many hours did you devote towards the Judicial Services in terms of your preparation on a daily basis?

    My agenda every day was to stick to a plan of about 2 hours for General Knowledge including the newspaper, 1 hour for Language and Essay, and 4-5 hours for Law. I tried to stick to this schedule the best I could. I revised each and every topic in every law subject at least 5 times before the Mains exam. The result of this kind of meticulousness in preparation was that during Mains I faced no problem at all in answer writing, while other candidates complained of lengthiness of some papers.

     

    What was your study pattern, the mode of study (online, offline, etc.)?

    My study pattern was well spread out across the day with regular breaks to keep the mind fresh. I referred to Ratanlal for Indian Penal Code, Kelkar for Cr.PC, Takwani for CPC, Avtar Singh for Contracts and Specific Relief and MP Singh for Constitutional Law. For Preliminary Exam, I solved a lot of MCQs and referred to bare acts simultaneously. For Mains Exam, I made notes for all subjects, solved all the previous year’s question papers, pasted the syllabus in my room and consulted it regularly to keep a tab on my preparation. For Interview, I revised the mains exam law syllabus, made notes for general knowledge, and practiced answering questions that are most likely to be asked.

     

    How did you prepare for the General Knowledge section?

    I read the Indian Express newspaper every day. For static GK I referred to Lucent, Bipin Chandra and Arihant. For current GK I referred to Pratiyogita Darpan, and used online resources from Vision IAS and GK Today.

     

    Any specific strategy for dealing with the various case laws?

    The approach to remembering the sections is to consult the bare acts again and again while studying law. There is really no other way to remember provisions. For case laws, one should prepare their own subject-wise list of leading cases and their ratio decidendi. This list will aid in last minute revision and one can regularly update it with new rulings. The exam will exhaust you. But it is important that you keep fighting as if your life depends upon it.

     

    Tell us about your interview.

    My interview lasted 25-30 minutes. I was asked about 25 questions. 2-3 questions about my personal background to break the ice. Followed by 2 questions from current affairs. And about 20 questions from Law. Interview preparation basically comprised of revising all the Law subjects and having an opinion on each and every Law issue I would encounter. The interviewing panel comprised of the UPPSC Chairman, High Court Judge, and two Law professors.

    I was first asked about my background, my education, and what I did and do presently.

    From GK I was asked to explain the rationale behind Demonetization with its pros and cons, and to tell them whether the policy had been successful or not.

    From Law, I was asked:

    • What is a Thug as per IPC?
    • Jurisprudence for unconstitutionality of s. 303 of IPC?
    • Difference between culpable homicide and murder?
    • Definition of consideration in ICA, followed by a problem based question upon it.
    • Elements of Contract and the distinction between Agreement and Contract.
    • The particular section in the Contract Act which defines what a Contract along with is its ingredients.
    • What is the definition of evidence?
    • Whether you can convict someone solely based on circumstantial evidence, the jurisprudence behind it, and the section which makes circumstantial evidence relevant?
    • What are the alternatives available if the police do not register an FIR?
    • Describe in detail the procedure of recording a complaint under section 200, and how you will proceed further with the procedure after it is recorded?
    • How many witnesses must be present along with the Complainant for recording the complaint?
    • Describe an abuse of legal process and explain it by giving an example, also state the remedy available to counter it.
    • Which section and order of the CPC prescribe for the mechanism of ADR?
    • What are the different kinds of ADR, and my comment whether they are desirable?

    Be humble and polite in the interview. Do not show off. Accept your mistake there and then. If the member tries to interrogate you further, do not get defensive and hesitant. Answer respectfully and give to the point answers. The interviewers comprise of experienced persons so do not even think of misleading them.

     

    Selected for the Judicial Clerkship/Law Researcher at Supreme Court of India in 2015; please share an insight to it.

    Judicial Clerkship comprises of an entrance examination followed by a personal interview with the Chief Justice of India himself! The entrance examination is quite competitive and comprises of English and all the Law Subjects. Students in the merit list are called to appear for a personal interview at the Supreme Court. I was interviewed by Hon’ble Chief Justice T.S. Thakur and Hon’ble Justice Anil R. Dave. It was a memorable experience.

     

    What would be your tips to those aspirants who are preparing for this exam?

    You have to produce the result of your selection yourself. So don’t count too much on coaching institutes. Judicial Services Examination is not a piece of cake. The competition is immense, so halfhearted attempts can never work. Only the most sincere effort gets rewarded. And once you achieve success, there is nothing sweeter in the world.

  • Ashok Kumar, Chalfont Chambers, Sydney on the jurisdictional differences between Australia, New Zealand and India

    Ashok Kumar, Chalfont Chambers, Sydney on the jurisdictional differences between Australia, New Zealand and India

    Ashok Kumar did a Diploma in Law and an LL.M. from the University of Sydney which enabled him to be admitted as an Australian Legal Practitioner in 1998. He also holds CA qualifications and is a member of the Institute of Chartered Accountant both Australia & New Zealand. He enrolled as Barrister at NSW Bar since 2001 and is heavily involved in litigation matters. In the initial days of his career he was attached as paralegal to Dr Ajit Swaran now District Court judge in Auckland, NZ.

    Mr. Kumar has been involved in many leading matters in Australia and New Zealand which have been published in professional journals and also overseas. He regularly appears in migration judicial review and appellate cases.

    In this interview, he gives us great insights to:

    • The jurisdictional differences between Australia, New Zealand and India
    • How has the change in technology impacted legal research?
    • Can a candidate with Diploma in Law and an LL.M. from the University of Sydney practice in India and England?
    • His message to the young lawyers.

    When did you start your practice? How do you recall the first year as a legal professional?

    Before I commenced work in the legal field I was employed in the accountancy field. In my last role, accountancy / legal matters overlapped.

    In my preliminary foray into law, I was attached as paralegal to Dr Ajit Swaran Singh of Auckland, New Zealand to complete my required training to be admitted in New South Wales, Australia. Dr Singh was appointed District Court judge in 2002 and currently sits in Auckland.

    I commenced work as a paralegal in July 1998. I was admitted as a lawyer of the Supreme Court of NSW, Australia in October 1998 and in New Zealand in November 1998. My admission in New Zealand entitled me to commence practice as a barrister. I continued to work with Dr Singh through to about February 1999. A commercial Law firm that we were doing work in those days approached me to join them as a solicitor. I found work as a solicitor boring and returned to independent bar in Auckland in 2000.

    As a barrister with Dr. Singh who at that time moved to practice in wide range of criminal matters including a murder case although Dr Singh is Fiji’s former Deputy Solicitor-General and Acting Solicitor-General. He had left Simpson Grierson, a pre-eminent commercial law firm in Auckland as solicitor and joined as partner of a boutique law firm (McAlister Mazengarb) which he left before commencing as a barrister. I was a junior running around doing research and ensuring that the files were in order. We discussed case theories of the case we were tackling. Not only I learnt how to strategize and run law cases but also instilled discipline and also reminded of the professional ethics as a barrister. Having learnt the Law in Law school this job put me at the coalface of the application of the Law to actual cases. He was doing interesting cases including a murder case; working on murder case with him at the start of my career was very interesting.

    I returned to Sydney to focus on bigger litigation jurisdiction in 2001.

     

    What would be your advice to young lawyers who are just starting out?

    I came to the Bar having worked in accounting / finance / management with a chartered accountancy background.

    I started out as a barrister with very good but short experience as a solicitor branch of the profession.

    I was an outsider at the Bar for many reasons. Many come to the Bar having worked in litigation area as a solicitor. They have many contacts that would provide them with work. In my days there were only few Indian barristers at NSW Bar. In that sense too I was an outsider. These days there are many more Indians at the Bar.

    My advice to people starting out is that Bar is not for the faint hearted. You have to be passionate about some area of Law. If you have interest in Law and its development you would do well.

    One of the most important qualities in my view is patience and perseverance. You might lose a case because of are too junior to a more senior lawyer (advocate in India). The loss should not be a deterrent. With time one will succeed but tenacity is required. Believe in yourself but remain humble.

    Always seek mentors whether it be Law School colleagues. In NSW we freely guide people who came to bar much later than us. If I am in complicated case I would ask other people in my chambers or friends at the Bar who practise in that particular area of law whether my approach is correct. Never be afraid to ask questions. Some would not help but many would.

     

    How has technology changed over the years in your experience?

    I believe that the technology has changed the practise of Law in many ways but in particular one can practically access Laws of other countries in an area there may be no case Law as to how court would apply particular provisions. Australian and New Zealand lawyers are able to research how a particular provision of similar legislation has been interpreted in each other’s jurisdiction. English Law too is available online. These days even less developed countries have started putting the legislation and case Law online. In my view this has given power to practitioners.

    Law firms have harnessed the availability of legal talents such as countries like India and a lot of back end work is now being outsourced. Technology has also enabled the practitioners to work from home. A lot of barristers, both junior and senior are able to do a lot of work from home whereas as in old days hard copy of loose leaf would be in the chambers together with bulky files had to be carted. A lot of briefs these days are sent online. It has definitely helped barristers with young family work from home. Legal research has become much easier. With smart phones and the like there is better connectivity.

    By using the technology I certainly have limited my travel to chambers.

     

    At what stage did you decide to go for an LL.M. in Tax and Corporate Law? In hindsight, how would you say it impacted your career?

    I also hold CA qualification having worked amongst others with CA firms. As I was completing my undergraduate Law course I decided that Master of Laws would complement the qualifications and experience I already had in both in chartered accountancy practices and in commerce. I commenced my Masters before admission as a lawyer in Australia and New Zealand.

    So starting out it was completely my thought but I did know a few law students who were already studying in the LLM program at University of Sydney and certainly they encouraged it.

    I believe that Master of Laws degree has definitely impacted my career. Some firms particularly a lot of Asian law firms’ value strong academic skills. My relationship with these law firms in Australia and New Zealand has started because of this.

    Sydney Law School where I did my LLM is regarded as most prestigious Law school in Australia probably has assisted.

     

    What are the primary jurisdictional differences you have found in your practices in Australia, New Zealand and India?

    One thing that is common between Australian / New Zealand and Indian legal system is that all these jurisdictions being former UK colonies have inherited the British Common Law system. Many old imperial Laws still have application today.

    Many factors play out the differences in Laws of Australian / New Zealand to that of India. The primary differences are the first two are western countries. India has different norms and customs. The Indian Laws therefore reflect those differences. So much could be written but here I can only refer to the big picture of the differences in Laws of these States.

    Both countries, there have been much litigation surrounding the Constitution. My area of practice has certainly meant that we have challenged legal provisions and whether laws are valid. Both countries have robust judicial review procedures to challenge the validity of the decisions of administrators as well as the judges as well as the appellate mechanism although there are increasing attempts to curtail these rights. The cases like Bangalore Water Supply v R Ranjappa 1978 AIR 548; 1978 SCR (3) 2018; (1978) 2 SCR 213 at 215 where India’s own character was defined.

    Owing to the differences the laws have been enacted to accommodate the particular society. There is enactment in India such as anti-dowry laws that is not existent in Australia. laws to assist Dalits have been enacted to deal with particular situation in India.

    From time to time Australian superior courts, although not that often, have considered and applied laws as interpreted by Supreme Court of India (leading case like Bropho v Western Australia; Tasmanian Dam case).

    Often solicitors call us in respect Indian clients call us in matters where the implications of laws of both jurisdictions (such as in Family Law cases / dowry cases / property cases) so these complexities. The differences in laws create difficulties.  Even solicitors from larger Law firms have been intrigued and have called for assistance.

    I am aware that Indian lawyers immigrating from India have done well as solicitors. I am not aware of any Indian advocate who has joined the Bar in my time. Very recently some may have joined but I am not aware of any myself. I believe most are local graduates.

     

    As a Barrister in Australia and New Zealand, how would you compare the Bar exam in those jurisdictions with the one in India?

    The first point to becoming a lawyer is to complete LLB or equivalent course recognized by Legal Practitioners Admission Board (in case of NSW). The second phase is to then attend Practical Legal Training course which can be done online or by attending approved institutions (such as College of Law) and obtain pre-admission experience of 3 months. I understand that Bar Council exams in India are done at about this point. At this point the candidates become entitled to be “Australian legal practitioners” and can obtain practising certificate as solicitors (issued by NSW Law Society or other law societies (issued by NSW Law Society or other law societies in the relevant jurisdictions). There are no further requirements to be Solicitors.

    The barrister branch of the profession imposes additional requirements on solicitors. The starting point is to enrol in bar exam papers in Legal Ethics; Practice and Procedure; and Evidence with pass mark of at least 75%. Then follows intensive Bar Practise course which runs for 4 – 5 weeks (all these detailed requirements could be found on the NSW Bar Association’s website). There are more hands on practical type training.

    I believe that in India the practice as advocate in the superior court is by level of experience. Barristers undergo training as Court advocates. I am not able to comment about Indian Bar exams as I am not aware what is tested and understand that there are no exams to be court advocate in India.

     

    You have been a part of the Legal Aid Committee and Equal Opportunities Committee of the NSW Bar Association. How is your experience being a member of the same?

    It is indeed been a great honour to be included in the above Committees. Just because one gets appointed to these committees does not mean one is there for prestige. Many hours of our time has been devoted to doing many things that was required to be done. These Committees I have been part of and have been instrumental in bringing considerable changes and actively putting the members’ views on many issues.

    Our Committees played big role in the introduction of Best Practice Guidelines; work on various briefing policies; child care; fund raising for important causes and of course issues affecting legal practitioners.

    The Committee work has been immensely satisfying. As team members we have achieved many things. Of course, friendships have also been forged. Some of the committee members have moved on to become judges or given other statutory appointments.

    There have been frustrating moments when members do not pull their weight or failed to turned up at sub-committee meetings.

     

    Please tell us a bit about your primary practice areas.

    (Barrister Kumar has worked with various commercial Law firms in New Zealand and Australia.)

    I have only worked for one commercial firm in Auckland. The primary area in that firm was property; commercial matters and some general work. Litigation tasks were also assigned. The primary tasks such as preparing submissions fell on me although the principal may often himself argue the case or run the trial.

    Apart from litigation we did considerable transactional work and I prepared the written opinions for the client. Returning to the Bar from that law firm I have been constantly engaged in running trial matters as well as appellate matters.

    My current practice areas are appellate, commercial, tax, property / leases, family law, administrative law and constitutional law. I have also done considerable work criminal law field. My work is mostly in superior Courts including the apex court (High Court of Australia) often in the original jurisdiction as well as special leave matters. I also appear often in NSW appeal courts.

     

    You have had considerable work experience in top accounting firms. How did you find the work there as compared to the Law firms you worked at?

    As an accountant I have top roles in companies as well as chartered accountancy firms. I worked for Touche Ross in those days. The firm I worked for now has been restructured as PwC. Some of the partners from my days remain as consultants or partners.

    One of the things about being a barrister is that you are in independent practice and on your own even administrative aspects are handled by chamber staff. As an accountant you can call upon other staff to assist. Even in the circumstances something urgent needs to be done the deadline is not fixed like that of the counsel. We get briefed in matters only because of our specialist skills. Whilst researchers can help the case would be ultimately be argued by the barrister. A barrister has to work under great pressure. The Court orders cannot just be ignored.

    Although I have done interesting accounting work, there is always challenge as a barrister. The solicitors who instruct often cannot figure the issues themselves and that is why the matter is briefed as it involves challenging application of Law

    With a Diploma in Law and an LL.M. from the University of Sydney, can you practice Law in India and in England?

    I qualified in Australia and have also been admitted in New Zealand. I have not really explored the possibility of joining the Bar in India. I understand that Indian PIOs (Persons of Indian Origin) have some relaxation of rules to be admitted as advocates.

    Again as for admission in the UK, I have really not explored the topic as I have not considered moving there. After accumulation of about 2 decades of experience I do not believe that I would have any problem getting the experience recognised or being admitted. There are some transfer tests for solicitors. Upon passing the transfer test Australian solicitors get admitted in that jurisdiction. Some barristers practice in both jurisdictions (UK and Australia). There may not be additional requirements for Australian barristers to practise in UK but I cannot be sure.

     

    What would be your message to young people who aspire to contribute to the legal fraternity?

    My primary experience has been in litigation so far as my legal experience goes. The Bar is only small part of the legal industry. The majority of lawyers in NSW and NZ are solicitors.

    The law school only teaches you the basics of the law. As I mentioned above, you need to go beyond and read areas of Law that interest you. Reading generally is also recommended as it would broaden your understanding. Sometimes widely read lawyers have that skill to express themselves well in court.

    Otherwise just be yourself.

  • Harsh Sharma, Ex-Member, Special Committee, Bar Council of Delhi, Founder, Prosoll Law Inc on his glorious thirty years in the legal fraternity

    Harsh Sharma, Ex-Member, Special Committee, Bar Council of Delhi, Founder, Prosoll Law Inc on his glorious thirty years in the legal fraternity

    Harsh Sharma, a celebrated name in the legal fraternity graduated in Law from Delhi University in 1987. Hailing from a business community, he developed a fascination for litigation. He is the current Standing Counsel for Bar Council of India since 2014. He represents matters in the Supreme Court of India, Delhi High Court and District Courts of Delhi.

    With aim and vision of great vertical extent, he decided to set up his own practice under the name “Prosoll Law Inc.” a leading law firm with an objective to render the best legal service to society with the highest standard of professional and moral ethical standards.Possessing immense knowledge and experience in various streams of law but Mr. Sharma regards each day as class of new learning being a student of Law.

        “Patience, Perseverance and Constant Study is Basic three Essentials to be a Good Lawyer!” -Harsh K. Sharma

    In this interview, he talks to us about:

    • The relaxed environment of Delhi University back in the ‘80s.
    • How importance does he assign to mentorship in litigation?
    • Some of his high profile cases.
    • His glorified experience of being in the legal fraternity for over thirty years.

    What motivated you take up legal studies? Is there any specific moment that you can recall?

    (Mr. Sharma completing his B.Sc. (Hons.) in Botany from Hansraj College, Delhi University in the 1983.)

    After completing my B.Sc. (Hons.) Botany from Hansraj College, Delhi University, I joined my father’s business of automobile spare parts for full one year. At that time, my father’s firm was the sole distributor for the entire country of a particular branch of automobile spare parts, used by most of the motorcycles, mopeds prevalent at that time as original equipment.

    Yet, now it seems that my destiny was different and was all together away from my dream of thoughts. One of my distant maternal uncle, who unfortunately is no more with us, was a lawyer and was a member of D.A.V. College Managing Trust. He impressed upon my parents to disassociate me from my family business and let me join and pursue LL.B. course from Delhi University. One of my friends from Hansraj College was also planning to join Law course, he only brought the application form for me to apply to Campus Law Centre for LL.B. course and as the luck would have had it, I became a law student but still I did not leave my family business. I used to go to Campus Law Centre in the morning and after completing my classes I used to get engaged in my business activities as usual.

    So far as I remember that in business community, particularly the automobile spare parts industry, legal profession was not considered as distinguished as any other profession. The general impression was that lawyers charge exorbitant fees for the cases pertaining to sales tax & income tax assessment, particularly on the pretext of bribing the corresponding assessing authority.

    Coming from such business community, I was reluctant to become a tax lawyer. After completion of my Law course, I opted for litigation.

    So here I am, litigating from the past 30 years or more, practicing mostly on the cases relating to Prevention of Corruption Act, Prevention of Money Laundering Act and other Economic Offences.

     

    How was the environment in Delhi University in the early ‘80s?

    Environment in the Delhi University in the early ’80s was extremely relaxed. To be honest, I purchased almost one book on each of the subject, from a vendor selling books at the Campus Law Centre Complex itself on the very first day of my studies in Campus Law Centre. After I had paid him the money for the books he asked me to purchase few more books and he handed over me one of those books. That book was merely containing questions and answers. I asked him about the said book. He responded that it is called “Dukki”. Each book is a key of a particular subject and if I study only the contents of the said book, I can not only clear the exams but may get distinction too. Though I was sceptical, but I bought them. Please remember these all event happened on the first day of my LL.B. 1st Year, 1st Class. In class I found that none of the fellow students were carrying anything. In my first lecture, probably it was given by Dr. K. Madhav Menon, he informed us that we will be getting cyclostyle assignment/case law free of cost from a place near the canteen and we have to study only such case laws and the course of the corresponding subject would be complete.

    No co-curricular activities or Annual Festival were conducted back then and majority of the law students were I.A.S. aspirants, having law as an alternative subject for their exam. People used to be extremely relaxed and no culture of compulsory attendance.

     

    How do you recall your first hearing at court? What was the attitude of judges towards litigants and advocates and would you say it has changed over the years?

    I remember it was the month of June, 1987. I joined the chamber of one of my friends’ father in the Hon’ble Supreme Court. He was Advocate on Record. By that time, I had also completed a course in Forensic Science, so casually I asked him as to how the same can be utilized by me, in my profession. He jokingly asked me to join the trial courts as the field of Forensic Science has some utility in the trial court only. That motivated me to explore the trial courts. Apart from appearing before the Hon’ble Supreme Court for a short period of four months, I used to hear the arguments addressed at bar. Slowly I realized that it would be better if I switched over to trial courts for the initial stage.

    My first day at the trial court was in the court of Mr. Jaspal Singh (the then Special Judge, Tis Hazari Courts, Delhi). I appeared as junior to one of the lawyer, representing a Magistrate (under suspension), who was facing charges of accepting bribe, at his house, from the complainant. As per normal routine, the court staff called out the name of the said Magistrate who was facing trial to make him appear before the court. Mr. Jaspal Singh (who later retired as a Judge of the Delhi High Court), reprimanded the said court staff in open court by asking as to whether he does not recognize the said Judicial Officer. He further asked him as to why he did not simply go to the said Judicial Officer and requested him to come forward. He then categorically told all his court staff that the said person is still a Judicial Officer and deserves full respect as Judicial Officer till the time the case has been concluded.

    This experience is still a lasting experience for me, as I am representing a large number of senior politicians, bureaucrats, senior government officials and a number of business tycoons. I still advise every lawyer who works with me, in those cases, that it is the misfortune of the litigants that they are facing trial but we should not anyhow show disrespect to them on any account. They are innocent till they are held guilty. I believe that this attitude of judges towards litigants, which I learnt on the first hearing in the court, is slowly weeding away.

     

    What importance would you assign to mentorship in litigation and who was your mentor?


    After completing my LL.B. from Campus Law Centre, when I joined courts, the concept of mentor was not in existence. One had to merely join an advocate and he was expected to work for him, as his junior normally without any reciprocal emoluments. I originally joined an Advocate on Record in Hon’ble Supreme Court. Being Advocate on Record, his work was primarily confined to drafting and filing SLPs and other misc. petitions in Hon’ble Supreme Court. Thus, I got chance to learn drafting of SLPs.

    I distinctly remember that while drafting an SLP, challenging an order of conviction by Allahabad High Court, I suggested one of the grounds to the A.O.R., with whom I was working, which was in relation to challenging the Ballistic Experts’ Opinion and his deposition. The reason for suggesting the said ground was that apart from completing my Law course, I had also undertaken a course in Forensic Science from Anthropology Department of Delhi University. I was rebuked and I was told that in case I intend to use my Forensic Science Knowledge, I should switch to Trial Courts. Tis Hazari Courts was the largest court in Delhi and the second court was Patiala House Courts. After this particular instance, I joined a lawyer who was having a few cases of Prevention of Corruption Act at the Tis Hazari Courts.

    As the luck would have had it, in January, 1988, Ms. Kiran Bedi, IPS (as she was then DCP/North Zone) ordered the arrest of Sh. Rajesh Agnihotri, (a lawyer practicing in Tis Hazari Courts), paraded in handcuffs, in Tis Hazari Courts at the office of DCP/North Zone. This led to a large protest by the Lawyers, asserting that Sh. Rajesh Agnihotri had been framed. Ms. Kiran Bedi, directed the lathi charge on protesting lawyers and this led to injuries to multiple lawyers. This strike of the lawyers continued for two months and it ended only when the Hon’ble Delhi High Court appointed a two judges commission, to probe the said incident. Justice D.P. Wadhwa Committee found that arrest of Sh. Rajesh Agnihotri, was justified but his handcuffing was illegal and the lathi charge on lawyers was also indiscriminate and unjustified. The report of the committee also observed that Ms. Bedi had connived with a Municipal Counsellor in organizing transporting a mob to Tis Hazari which indulged in violence against the lawyers.

    However, these two months were a blessing in disguise for me on two accounts. The first is I got my Tis Hazari Courts’ Chamber constructed and second is that I started my independent practice. Therefore, from my experience having a mentor or not having a mentor do not count, for any personal or professional development. One has to work hard, keep his knowledge of Law up-to-date and more one learns more successful he becomes.

     

    You established your own practice “Prosoll Law Inc.” in 1987; what are its core areas of practice?

    The idea behind establishing “Prosoll Law Inc.” was to provide ‘Pro Legal solutions’ to my clients. I believe in effective legal representation, in a cost effective manner which begins with understanding our clients’ quandary.

    Prosoll Law has grown as a team possessing high standards with deep expertise in the field of law. Team Prosoll focuses primarily on quality, ethics and promptness in handling legal disputes and to provide effective professional services.

    In January 1988, I got my first case under Prevention of Corruption Act and it was followed by particular other briefs which included petitions under Delhi Rent Control Act, Summary Suits under Order XXXVII CPC, Probate Petitions, Company Winding-up Petition, Trade Mark Registration and Litigations etc. However, in the year 1995, I was having more than 50 Trap Cases, both registered by CBI and the Anti-Corruption Department of Delhi Government. Somehow, thereafter I started focusing only on the cases originating from Prevention of Corruption Act, both under Old i.e. 1947 Act & New 1988 Act and since then, my area of interest are economic offences rooting from Prevention of Corruption Act and allied matters. However, I take deep interest in the matters pertaining to Constitutional Law.

    Prosoll Law Inc. comprising of enthusiastic advocates having expertise in different fields of Law, handles a gamut of cases pertaining to several substantive laws like conventional crimes, Information Technology Act, the Society Registration Act, Civil Procedure Code, Special Relief Act, Patent and Trade Mark Infringement Cases, Matrimonial Cases etc.

     

    How many years of practice are required to build a firm clientele?

    (Mr. Sharma has been handling a gamut of clients ranging from bureaucrats / high ranking officials of various government/non-government departments/former judges to politicians and private persons.)


    There is no hard and fast rule, whereby one can assume or assign a definitive period of practice which could be said is required to build a firm’s clientele. As a matter of fact, which is my experience also that one has to constantly endeavour new means to deliver the relief to the client. Of course, these means must originate from respective statutory provisions.

    To illustrate, I wish to reproduce a very scantly used provisions of Criminal Procedure Code, 1973, which by its plain reading makes it clear that when in a Criminal Trial a judgement of conviction is passed to which fine is part of the sentence, the fine is not to be paid till the time appeal is filed or the prescribed period of filing the appeal had expired. This provision also specifies that once an appeal is filed, where fine is a part of the sentence, no such fine is to be paid till the appeal is finally disposed off.

    The corresponding provision of Cr.P.C. 1973 is as follows:-

    1. Order to pay compensation.

    (1)  When a Court imposes a sentence of fine or a sentence (including a sentence of death) of which fine forms a part, the Court may, when passing judgment, order the whole or any part of the fine recovered to be applied-

    (a) in defraying the expenses properly incurred in the prosecution;

    (b) in the payment to any person of compensation for any loss or injury caused by the offence, when compensation is, in the opinion of the Court, recoverable by such person in a Civil Court;

    (c) when any person is convicted of any offence for having caused the death of another person or of having abetted the commission of such an offence, in paying compensation to the persons who are, under the Fatal Accidents Act, 1855 (13 of 1855), entitled to recover damages from the person sentenced for the loss resulting to them from such death;

    (d) when any person is convicted of any offence which includes theft, criminal misappropriation, criminal breach of trust, or cheating, or of having dishonestly received or retained, or of having voluntarily assisted in disposing of, stolen property knowing or having reason to believe the same to be stolen, in compensating any bona fide purchaser of such property for the loss of the same if such property is restored to the possession of the person entitled thereto.

    (2)  If the fine is imposed in a case which is subject to appeal, no such payment shall be made before the period allowed for presenting the appeal has elapsed, or, if an appeal be presented, before the decision of the appeal.

    (3)  When a Court imposes a sentence, of which fine does not form a part, the Court may, when passing judgment, order the accused person to pay, by way of compensation, such amount as may be specified in the order to the person who has suffered any loss or injury by reason of the act for which the accused person has been so sentenced.

    (4)  An order under this section may also be made by an Appellate Court or by the High Court or Court of Session when exercising its powers of revision.

    (5)  At the time of awarding compensation in any subsequent civil suit relating to the same matter, the Court shall take into account any sum paid or recovered as compensation under this section.

    Though I am repeating myself, but in order to bring clarity on the subject answer, I wish to add that a large number of statutory provisions are never agitated upon by us in order to seek relief for the benefit of our clients.

    Thus, I conclude that such measures and constant research to find the exact provision of law or the corresponding case Law, enabling us to seek relief is the only means which a firm needs to build its clientele.

     

    Please share some of your experiences.

    (Mr. Sharma has been a part of some high profile cases like- The Railway Bribery Scam, the Coal Gate Scam, the Micromax Bribery Case and a lot more.)

    Everyone, whosoever is dealing with such cases or any case for that matter, must read each word of the charge sheet filed by CBI/Prosecution. It is the charge sheet from where the defence would originate. For the purpose of developing strategic defence in any Civil or Criminal Case, the contents of the pleadings of the opposite party, will provide the exact defence required to break the case.

    Illustratively, if a case is based upon Surveillance having been mounted by the CBI/Prosecution as is the case of Railway Bribery Scam or Micromax Bribery Scam one must know delicacies of Electronic /Digital Evidence. One must understand, the Information Technology Act, Section 65-A & B of Indian Evidence Act. The method by way of which, Primary or Secondary Evidence, pertaining to Electronic /Digital Evidence is firstly admissible and secondly it is impeachable.

    Similarly, analysing the Coal Gate Scam, since it involves multitude of institutions like PM Office, Ministry of Coal, Ministry of Steel, Ministry of Power & other Allied Ministries, State Government, Institution of State Government like Department of Industries, Mines of States and apart from them certain corporate houses or individuals to whom it is alleged that allocation of Coal Blocks have taken place, after hatching a conspiracy to do so. It is my belief that in one of the charge sheet filed by the CBI/Prosecuting Agency, no tangible evidence had been brought on record by them, reflecting either meeting of mind amongst the persons working in multiple institutions referred before or a common thread, detailing that work of the corresponding persons working in the different institutions, had a common object. Though there are multiple order of conviction in Coal Gate Cases but on the other hand is the 2G Spectrum Case and the judgment therein had categorically reflected that the element reflecting common object amongst multiple persons, institutions was not in existence.

    Therefore, I intend to highlight that for any given case, the defence lies within the pleadings of the other party, and the attempt which is required to be made is as to how that weak spot in the case of the opposite party is to be found and then exploited.

     

    What are the skills that you look for when you hire juniors under you?

    Sharpness in responses, eagerness to explore the unexplored field of Law, good command over English (both spoken and drafting). Always an honest attempt to communicate one’s thoughts to the other person coupled with patience and perseverance are the only qualities which I wish to find in any lawyer who comes to me, to become my colleague. I personally do not want to call anybody as “Junior”. My reasoning is that they might be “Junior” to me by age but everyone has equal capacity to imagine, to explore the unexplored and most importantly fresh lawyers always bring fresh ideas.

    The skills which I have highlighted above are to be developed by a person on their own. These are no mathematical equations, which one can provide to another. It is the function of the brain, which will only start functioning when a person puts his brain to work. So, development of skill in legal profession cannot be guided, it is self-development process and that is exactly how I did it.

     

    As a Member of the Special Committee of the Bar Council of Delhi, what were your roles and responsibilities?

    I remained a Member of Special Committee of Bar Council of Delhi for a short period. We as Member of Special Committee were expected to discharge all the functions of Bar Council of Delhi which included Enrolment of fresh lawyers, looking after Disciplinary Proceedings and to discharge all the functions which Bar Council of India had assigned to the Special Committee.

     

    How would you describe your experience of over thirty years in the legal fraternity?

    “Satisfying” is the only word, which can describe my experience in the legal profession. If I look back and analyse these thirty years, as a lawyer, I find it really surprising that a person, having no prior experience of the field of litigation, has not only survived in this competitive field but is presently discharging all the duties of a Defence Counsel for a large number of politicians, bureaucrats/high ranking officials, former judges, large corporate entities etc.

    Please provide us insights to your daily schedule. What is a typical work day like?

    Being an advocate, dealing with a handful of cases before different forums, my daily schedule is segregated in a manner whereby I intend to utilize the time in most efficient way.

    Any typical day for me starts at 9.00 AM, when I start for the courts. The work schedule at the court normally ends at 4.30 PM, thereafter I start for my office, wherein I prepare for my upcoming cases and attend conferences between 5.00 PM to 8.30 or 9.00 PM.

    In case, the case is fixed for Miscellaneous Proceedings before the trial court, I normally request any of my colleague advocates to appear, appraise and assist the court appropriately. However, if a case is fixed for evidence, either for examination in chief or for cross examination, then I personally attend it as a priority matter. However, the Stage of Arguments, be it Miscellaneous or Final, are normally taken by the Court at the end of the Board. Thus, I plan my schedule accordingly, so that all miscellaneous work, evidence are diligently catered to in advance and I am available for rendering appropriate assistance to the Court for and on behalf of my client.

    However, for proceedings in Superior Courts, I normally organize my time as per the cause list of the respective court in such a manner that my Trial Court work do not suffer and neither my case pending before the Superior Courts.

    Fortunately, in the present scenario of Artificial Intelligence and other electronic facilities, the time spent by me commuting in my car, i.e. heading to court complex, or commuting amongst different court Premises or while reaching back home, is utilized by me for research purposes, which I do on my I-Pad, with the help of internet facilities.

    As a concluding message, what would be your advice to budding lawyers?

    Please be prepared to work hard, which include research on various Statutory Provisions and the interpretation thereof, as is pronounced by various Superior Courts. Be courteous not only to your client or to the judges, but also to the court staff and all your colleagues so that a feeling of an extended family is established amongst you and all the persons with whom you interact while discharging your responsibilities as a lawyer. Please do not run for money at the very start of your career, as it is bound to come to you automatically once you establish your own identity and character in legal fraternity.

  • Kazim Rizvi, Public-Policy Entrepreneur- The Dialogue, on making change and development a reality through high impact ideas

    Kazim Rizvi, Public-Policy Entrepreneur- The Dialogue, on making change and development a reality through high impact ideas

    Kazim Rizvi graduated in Law from Christ College of Law, Bangalore in 2012. He always has had a deep interest in the government mechanism, social science and politics. Kazim practiced Law for a few months but soon realized that public policy was his true calling in life. He strongly believes that the policy route is the ideal as you understand the gaps in the governance structure hence, helps an effective leader to bring change. Quoting Kazim- “For me, nothing is more important than national service.”

    In 2016, he founded The Dialogue which is a policy institution to drive a dedicated narrative on policy and development in India. Kazim is also the Co-Chair of the public policy division at The Indian National Bar Association.

    In this interview, he talks to us about:

    • His experience at Christ College of Law.
    • His role at The Indian National Bar Association
    • His venture- The Dialogue.
    • The importance of national service.

    How would you like to introduce yourself to our readers?

    Thank you to Superlawyer for reaching out to me. I would like to introduce myself as a policy professional and first-generation entrepreneur based out of New Delhi. Having graduated five years ago from Christ College of Law, I practiced Law for a few months before eventually deciding to move into policy research and advocacy with the objective of making a strong impact to take India forward.

     

    How did your interest gravitate towards Law?

    Since I was a child, I had a deep interest in politics and social science and was always curious to understand how I could make our country a better place to live. I took commerce in class 11 as I realised that medicine and engineering were not my cup of tea. Law was considered a serious option post class 12 as it was a professional course and the idea of a five-year course made it lucrative to pursue, as opposed to the 3+3 option. For me, the idea of understanding India’s governance structure through the study of Law was more important than finding a job out of Law school, as I had a fair idea that I would eventually move to policy and development. This was re-enforced during my time at Law school, where in the latter stage I started considering policy as a profession.

     

     How was the experience at Christ University?

    My experience at Christ University was certainly memorable! More importantly, I believe that the decision to go to Bangalore, when I had a couple of options for National Law Schools, was the best decision I have made till now. Moving from Delhi to Bangalore, living on your own, learning new perspectives and throwing yourself at the deep end of intellectual debates shaped my personality and thought process. We had a great set of batch mates who all had a high-level stamina to think through ideas. In my network of friends, we had a great atmosphere of debates, discussions and we were all quite charged up about our opinions. The long drawn political debates at our hostel, outside college, discussions on history, philosophy etc. led to an argumentative and opinionated mind.

     

    How can a Law student shape up his profile while still in Law school?

    I think learning outside the classroom is as important as the structured learning we go through inside the classroom. Moots and academic writing helped me tremendously, as that laid the basis of conducting proper research. One needs to strike a balance of studies and extra-curricular activities. For someone who has little faith in the rote learning system, extra-curricular activities helped me develop my skills for the real world. And to this day I am reaping the benefits of effective research, asking the right questions, framing the right arguments, analytical skills etc.

     

    Would you say that Law school prepared you for the real world practice of Law?

    (Soon after graduation Kazim started working at the Law office of Anuj Puri.)

    In my last semester, I gravitated towards litigation as a career option. I am grateful to Mr. Anuj Puri for offering me to work in his office and the few months I spent there gave me a good exposure into the world of litigation. Law school did prepare me for the real world, but only after a few months I realised that whatever I learned in Law school did not matter much as litigation was a different teacher altogether. Once you’re in it, you’re on a very steep learning curve, and after a while, how well you did in Law school matters little.

     

    How were you associated with the Swaniti Initiative?

    (Swaniti Initiative delivers development solutions to over 90 Parliamentarians across states and party lines on issues of health, education, gender and livelihood.)

    Swaniti was my big break to the world of development and policy. Swaniti started with a development fellowship where they selected fellows to work with an MP to support his/her programmes in the constituency. This was quite innovative back in 2013 and I was fortunate to having being selected and work with Mr. Jay Panda, one of the most dynamic, well-spoken and qualified MPs of our times. The fellowship was challenging as we were tasked with improving the medical infrastructure of his constituency, Kendrapara, off the coast of Odisha. Since there was only one Primary Health Centre at that time, medical access was a major challenge faced by the people of Kendrapada. People had to travel long distances and wait to get health check-ups done and that affected their well-being. To meet this challenge, we devised the idea of “Mobile Health Van”, which would travel across Kendrapada and provide free medical check-ups as well as diagnosis, medicines and basic medical procedures to the people. By the time I left, we had delivered two MHVs that would go from village to village, catering to two hundred people every week. We got the entire programme sponsored externally.

     

     What are your roles and responsibilities as Co-Chair of the public policy division at the Indian National Bar Association?

    With the Indian National Bar Association, I am involved in planning and executing programmes and public discourses on key policy issues. Right now we are working on data governance and developing programmes to facilitate policy discourse.

     

    Public policy is your niche; how did you develop an affinity for it?

    As a student of public-policy, I believe that it is too broad a subject to be considered as a niche. However, I do believe those five years after college, I am more of a policy professional than a lawyer, so in that case yes; it is going to be my area of discipline for the rest of my career.

    As I was always interested in politics and development, closer to the end of Law school, I came across the discipline of public-policy, which catered to people who wanted a career in public service and governance issues. I think if you are serious about wanting to make an impact, then the policy route is quite effective, as that provides you with a platform to develop ideas that could solve governance challenges. Even for those who want a political career later in their lives, the policy route is ideal as you understand the gaps in the governance structure and would be an effective leader to bring change. For me, nothing is more important than national service. The opportunity to bring change and development is not just a matter of words, but a reality you see when you work in the policy domain. This gives you the motivation to carry on, and to me, serving the people of India is a matter of great honour.

    One should ideally have a tinge of idealism along with pragmatism to fulfil her/his role as a policy professional. Since I missed out on Civil Services as I never had an inclination to write the exams, working as civil- society to impact policy is what I could do.

     

    Tell us about your brainchild- The Dialogue.

    The Dialogue is a policy institution to drive a dedicated narrative on policy and development in India. It reports on and analyses development of multiple sectors such as data, education, food security, healthcare, foreign policy, legislations, law reforms, energy and climate change, environment and other relevant development issues. It drives a continuous feed on these issues and simplifies complex policy developments for the reader. We undertake research, monitoring and evaluation, impact assessment, case studies, deliver conferences and communications to drive policy discourse by working closely with our stakeholders and partners.

    We engage with policy and development professionals to publish original and curated content with us. At the same time, we have a team of advisors who are experts in the field of their domain guide the narrative of the website to ensure we publish insightful content. We also have more than twenty knowledge partners in the form of think-tanks and research institutions to drive content and mainstream research briefs and development news by converting them into simple articles.

    Having completed ground level impact studies, research partnerships, and policy campaigns with leading government and non-government stakeholders, The Dialogue consists of a wide array of services aimed at filling the void in the public policy landscape.

    Apart from having a young team of well-qualified and driven public policy professionals, The Dialogue’s work is strongly rooted on the experience of our network consisting of former diplomats, senior military generals, academics, economists, and beyond. This combination is further cemented by a wide array of contributors, each of who are experts in the various sectors that The Dialogue works on.

     

    You did not opt for the traditional practice in Law. Why?

    I started working in litigation right after college, but by then I was convinced that policy is what I was going to do for the rest of my life. In fact, in my last semester I started looking it up as a serious career option. Back then it was not that popular a stream as it is now, so you did not have much precedence to look up to. I did not know of any seniors or even my contemporaries who were serious about diving into this field. A couple of my friends did touch upon this but it took us a year or two to understand the career path, as it is not as defined as Law. In that case, getting into policy was not straightforward.

    What made me take the road less taken is my passion for serving the country through high-impact ideas. The decision was easy but the path was challenging, as the job market was (and is still not) well defined. So you had to pick and choose carefully, take what comes towards you and build a network of experts. Thankfully, I seem to be going somewhere with The Dialogue, so that is a positive and of course very exciting to look forward.

     

    How can an interested person contribute to The Dialogue?

    We work with policy professionals, freelancers and researchers for our projects and programmes. Our working model is flexible and gives our people the freedom to work on projects of their liking as and when they want to. We have a core team that looks after the website, research, business development etc. and we bring on board people as and when we feel the need for their expertise for our projects. Anyone who has basic skillset and passion for policy and contribute to The Dialogue in the form of articles and research. We are always open to new research ideas so we welcome those who want to work and deliver projects with us. Those who are interested to conceptualise or work on our existing programmes, please feel free to write to me.

     

    What would be your parting message to young graduates looking to create an identity in the legal fraternity?

    I believe that we should not rush into any career option after college, rather, take your time to know yourself better and understand where you can make maximum impact professionally. Don’t be afraid to take risks and embrace failures as that will teach you more than success. Things will open up to you gradually and with patience we all get on the right track.

  • Prateek Lala, Senior Associate, Shardul Amarchand Mangaldas, on building his career in Corporate Law and his gainful experience as a Paralegal

    Prateek Lala, Senior Associate, Shardul Amarchand Mangaldas, on building his career in Corporate Law and his gainful experience as a Paralegal

    Prateek Lala graduated in Law from CMR Law School in 2010. Coming from a family of scientists and being a first generation lawyer, Prateek used every opportunities and challenges thrown at him to develop as a professional. He started working as a paralegal at Universal League while still in college and then as an associate at Lexygen where he was directly involved in several multifaceted and highly challenging mergers & acquisitions and private equity transactions undertaken by globally reputable private equity funds and multinational companies.

    Currently, he is a senior associate at Shardul Amarchand Mangaldas & Co, one of the biggest and most reputed law firms in the country

    In this interview, we talk to him about:

    • His decision to pursue Law as a profession.
    • How can extra activities bring out the competitive edge in you which is very useful in the profession?
    • How to manage the discrepancies between what you study and what you do?
    • The qualities and skills that make a good intern.

     

     How would you introduce yourself to our readers?

    You can call me a ‘Bangalore boy’ although my roots lie in a small town called Santiniketan in West Bengal. I did my schooling in Clarence High School, Bangalore and law school from CMR Law School (now School of Law, CMR University).

    I really enjoy what I do today so I don’t really mind (and actually relish) the challenges that this profession throws. When I get some downtime, I like to travel, play sport, or spend time with family and friends.

    I actually come from a family of scientists, so while my parents were slightly apprehensive about me taking up Law (largely because of the misconceptions about lawyers existing in the 20th century), they were always very supportive. I am (fortunately or unfortunately) the first lawyer in my family although I have an uncle who practices Law in Gujarat.

     

    What motivated you to pursue Law? How was your experience at law school?

    Being abysmal at physics and chemistry motivated me to pursue Law! No, but seriously, I wanted to focus on my strengths and not pursue something that I didn’t enjoy (read: science). My father is a Ph.D. in organic chemistry and my brother is a chemical engineer, and there I was barely managing to pass in chemistry (imagine the embarrassment). But honestly, science subjects did not appeal to me and I realised I should focus on something else (which I would at least pass in) which resulted in me choosing commerce as my preferred stream in I.S.C. Thereafter, I thoroughly enjoyed studying economics, political science, accountancy, etc. and my grades improved drastically. During my 11th standard, I read about corporate law being a viable career option and its uptick in recent times. It seemed like an interesting option and something that I would enjoy so I went ahead and today I am glad, I did.

    Studying law was something that I thoroughly enjoyed. It really helped that I had some good lecturers who encouraged analytical thinking than just mugging up from some (in)famous ‘guidebooks’. I participated in various moot courts, cultural events, debates, all of which helped me develop as a professional. I interned after college hours at various firms and companies which gave me some great insight into the legal profession and the challenges underlying this profession. At the same time I didn’t forget to have some fun at college (some of my best years).

     

    Did you take up activities such as moots, debates and sports in law school?

    Yes, like I said, I participated in moots, debates, and sports all through college. These were integral in my development as a professional. Mooting teaches you a myriad set of skills such as research, mannerisms, oration, etc. Public speaking, per se, instils a lot of confidence in you which does keep you in good stead when you start practicing (be it litigation or corporate). Sports, obviously, bring out that competitive edge in you which, again, is very useful in this profession.

     

    You worked as a paralegal during your time in college. What motivated you to do so?

    Being a ‘non-NLS’ student, realised that I may have to think out of the box to secure a job. Mr. Partha Mandal, partner at Universal Legal gave me an opportunity to intern with UL after college hours and I worked there for two years. I became a fairly integral part of that set up (and I also got some stipend so it took care of ‘college expenses’). My seniors would take me to the courts, the ROC’s office, sub-registrar’s office, etc. which gave me an understanding of what happens practically. I also worked with Praxair India Private Limited, in my fourth year, under the guidance of Mr. Sthanu Singh which also gave me an in-depth understanding of labour laws and government contracts.

    Unfortunately, there is a huge dichotomy in what we study and what we actually do (reminds me of those memes) and being a paralegal helped me learn what matters. Of course, reading the Law (coupled with understanding the practical aspect) during work, helped when I was studying a subject at college and some stuff made much more sense than it would, normally, have.

     

    What piqued your interest in the field of corporate law?

    Initially, I joined internship because I wanted to figure out which area of Law interested me the most. But within a month of my internship with UL, their corporate practice sparked that interest in corporate law which I later pursued. All my internships have been in the field of corporate-commercial laws so I have never really deviated and explored other avenues. However, I experienced the real thrill of private equity and M&A during my time as a paralegal with Lexygen, where I decided this is what I want to do.

     

    What was your first job after law school and how did you secure it?

    During my fifth year at law school, Ms. Smita Thomas, a senior who I had worked with at Universal Legal (now a dear friend) referred me to Lexygen, a boutique transactional law firm (where she was working then). I was interviewed by Mr. Roshan Thomas (a principal associate then) for an internship and it was a colossal failure. However, given that they had a free slot that month, they decided to try me out. I worked under the guidance of Roshan and Mr. Vijay Sambamurthi (managing partner). Given that I had messed up my interview, expectations from me were very low, but the firm (rather benevolently) gave me enough work to keep me busy. Luckily, during a discussion on the Takeover Code, I managed to gather some courage and answer a question which the transactional team was deliberating (I had read about this subject at hand in some blog immediately prior to this discussion) and that answer helped them in the transaction and, voila, I was called back to work after college hours. As a paralegal with Lexygen, I assisted with research, proof-reading, restating articles, and (at times) due diligence. I can’t stress enough on how important research and proof reading is for an intern because if you give a well-researched document or catch a critical error in an agreement, it does really impress seniors at work.

    Lexygen gave me a PPO in my 9th semester and worked there for three years. It was a great learning experience and I have mad respect for that firm for having worked on some marquee deals. I learnt that it is critical to be thorough, meticulous, and well prepared for any task (whether drafting, negotiating, or conducting due diligences). I also learnt that lawyers could work hard and party harder!

     

    How did your appointment at BMR Legal happen? Can you tell us about the nature of your work and professional growth there?

    Post Lexygen, Roshan and I moved to the transactional practice at Themis Associates which was led by Mr. Siddharth Nair then. I worked on numerous multi-faceted and complex deals at Themis under the guidance of Roshan and Siddharth. My learning curve at Themis took a serious upswing thanks to the partners there. The transaction practice at Themis moved to BMR Legal the year I joined Themis. BMR Legal gave us exposure to several large and complex transactions which often gave rise to various stressful and challenging situations. But that was the thrill when we closed large and complex transactions, it gave us immense satisfaction.

    I was given much more responsibilities at BMR Legal; I became a senior associate and started leading transactions with minimal partner supervision. Initially, it was stressful but I guess I adapted fairly quick. Roshan and Siddharth continued to guide me during transactions and I picked up a lot of skill sets from them. Merely attending negotiations with them was a learning experience. I tried to replicate what I learnt from them in my deals and that paid rich dividends

     

    Can you describe the work environment and your job description at SAM?

    The transaction practice of BMR Legal was acquired by SAM. I work with Roshan at SAM, and I am grateful because he has been a mentor, guide, and friend from the Lexygen days and one can learn immensely while working with him.

    We have a wonderful set-up at SAM and the team I work with is incredibly talented, dedicated, and hard-working so it is a pleasure to work with them. The long/all nights don’t feel cumbersome since you are working with a wonderful set of people. Of course SAM, being one of the biggest and most reputed law firms in the country, opens up a lot of opportunities from a work perspective. We are still new to the SAM system but are settling-in fairly nicely.

     

    Have you ever considered pursuing higher education? What are your views on the importance of higher education?

    I am of the view that higher education in Law has very little or no utility if you are intending to practice corporate law. While you are gaining theoretical knowledge, it may not serve much utility from a practical experience perspective. In my experience, candidates with a higher PQE have an advantage over candidates with an LL.M. degree. I, personally, would choose to get the hands-on experience. However, I am told that higher education at reputed foreign universities is a great experience.

     

    How do you maintain a work-life balance?

    I think it is important to use your free time judiciously. Indulge in your hobbies, take holidays and spend time with your loved ones so that when the work is at full tilt you don’t feel burnt –out and are ready to put in the long hours. I personally mix music, play sport, travel, and spend time with my family and friends at every given opportunity. Also, I feel working-out and meditation is a great outlet for the stress that builds-up during high stress situations at work. Given the sedentary lifestyle we corporate lawyers lead, it is all the more important that you choose a healthy lifestyle.

     

    How do you keep yourself updated with legal developments in the numerous areas of law you deal with?

    SAM has a great research team that issues regulatory and market updates regularly. Apart from that RSS feeds and subscription to various legal newsletters and primers help immensely.

     

    Have you had any experience dealing with interns? What are the qualities and skills that make a good intern?

    I used to interview and hire interns for the longest time. The key qualities that make a good intern are as follows:

    • Never be complacent about (or underestimate) the work given to you.
    • Be meticulous and thorough in whatever you are doing. It may be a simple proof-read or a simple research.
    • Give it your best shot, and make sure you try to add as much value as possible. Remember you will be judged on these simple skills.
    • Never sit idle. If you are free, go up and ask a senior for work.
    • Don’t hesitate to ask for clarifications. Remember, you are trying to add value and reduce the work-load of your senior. You can do so only if you have understood the subject matter yourself.
    • Do not blindly copy matter that you see online into your work product. Make your work product as original as it can get.
    • Try to adapt to the firm’s culture and values.

     

    What are the qualities required to succeed in the field of corporate law and in major law firms?

    I’m still figuring out the qualities myself. But till now what I have figured is that hard-work, passion, commitment, and meticulousness cannot be compromised. Also, good people management skills are priceless in this profession.

     

    What advice do you have for our readers who are primarily college students?

    Pursue corporate law only if you think you might enjoy it (after having read about it). It looks glamorous from the outside but it is real hard work consisting of innumerable sleepless nights, sometimes unrealistic expectations, and minimal work life balance. However, the thrill and excitement is something that very few other professions have to offer. You need to be (i) updated about legal and financial developments, (ii) meticulous, (iii) willing to work very hard, (iv) focussed, and (v) willing to adapt and learn.

    Also, don’t get trapped in the seriousness of it all. Have some fun whenever you can!