Super Lawyer

Category: Interviews

  • Arvind P. Datar on the job of a Senior Advocate, taxation law and writing authoritative law books

    Arvind P. Datar on the job of a Senior Advocate, taxation law and writing authoritative law books

    Arvind P. Datar is a prominent Senior Advocate at Madras High Court and one of the finest lawyers in South India. He graduated from Dr. Ambedkar Government Law College, Chennai. He is also known for his books ‘Nani Palkhivala: The Courtroom Genius’, ‘Datar Commentary on Constitution of India’ and ‘Guide to Central Excise Law and Practice: With Accounting Practices’.

    We requested him to share his deep insights on:

    • Being a Senior Advocate
    • Establishing one of the finest litigation practices in taxation
    • Being the author of leading book on Central Excise and Constitution
    • Advice to young law students and lawyers

     

    Please tell us a bit about your pre-college years, you as a student, your ambitions as a kid. Did you have lawyers in your family or among close relatives?

    After my schooling in Pune, I completed my graduation from Bombay University. Initially, I wanted to join the merchant navy but I was medically disqualified due to a surgery. Thereafter, I continued my science degree and completed B.Sc (Hons.) in Physics and Mathematics. I was very active in debates at Bombay and decided to take up law. Accordingly, I returned to Madras and joined the Madras Law College. My grand -father and great grandfather were lawyers in Pune several decades ago. In the recent past, there have been no lawyers amongst my close relatives.

     

    What were your objectives when you thought about law while still in the preliminary years of Law College?

    After I joined the law college, I really enjoyed the subjects. We had wonderful set of lecturers in the first year. On account of the Emergency, [sociallocker]there were no strikes and classes were conducted regularly.

     

    What were your plans after graduation? Did you think of joining the Civil Services ever?

    I decided to specialize in taxation from the first year itself and, therefore, enrolled myself for the course in Cost Accountancy. I had law lectures in the morning and cost accountancy classes in the evening. I thought that this would help me in my tax practice and, indeed, it has proved to be immensely useful.

    From the first year, I had decided to practice as a tax lawyer and have not wavered even once I never thought of taking up any job or joining the civil service even once.

     

    How valuable would you say your legal education was? When did you actually experience the learning curve? What is your opinion when people say that all that they have learnt is in their years of practice?

    My first year in the law college was very useful and, till this date, the lectures on contract law and transfer of property are still fresh in my memory. In the second year, the emergency was lifted and the Janata Party came to power. Once again, we began to have strikes frequently. In the final year, we had hardly 50 days of college. For example, in constitutional law, the lecturer did not even commence Part III which was fundamental rights starting from Article 12. Therefore, the last two years of Law College were totally useless. Therefore, barring the first year subjects, all the students from my college were self-taught.

     

    How was the court atmosphere before, as distinguished from how it is now? Did judges take kindly to new orators? How was your experience in the first few sessions of the court? Do you think it has become more difficult for a fresher to be successful?

    There is no great difference in the court atmosphere prevailing in the 80s and now. Most judges are kind to juniors and encourage young lawyers who are well prepared and make an earnest effort. I was very nervous in my first few appearances but gradually this disappeared. It is not difficult today for new comers. In fact, there are far more opportunities now because of different and newer branches of law, regulators and tribunals.

     

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    You have a long and illustrious career as one of the most reputed advocates in India. What are the primary soft skills necessary in order to have a successful career in the legal profession?

    I think no one is successful by accident in any professional career, whether law or medicine or architecture: The essential skills are: a thorough knowledge of the subject of specialization, the ability to work very hard, the courage not to take short- cuts, the patience to wait for opportunities to come our way and, finally, the ability to seize the opportunities when they appear.

    It is also essential to carefully set individual goals and then devise a plan of action to achieve them. It is necessary to have clearly defined goals and carefully plan the manner in which these goals will be attained. For a lawyer, a mastery of the English language is an invaluable asset. We have to acquire skills that are necessary to achieve our goals. For example, if one wants to specialize in taxation, a knowledge of accountancy is very helpful.

    Lastly, the most important thing is the ability to say no. To say “no” to activities that are not in tune with your long-term goals. It will be far more rewarding if one relentlessly pursues the long term goal by systematically attaining short-term and mid-term goals that are congruent with our long term goal. It is also necessary to have just one or two goals and not plan for too many things. Once, the long-term, mid-term and short-term goals are set, it is necessary to periodically review them to determine whether we are on the right track.

     

    People have an impression that it is important to know the judge more than the case. How much truth would you say lie in such a statement?

    This is basically wrong and there is too much loose talk and baseless gossip. There may be exceptional instances where this statement may be true but this is really rare.

     

    The judges are known to have a pre-conceived disposition towards being socialist, rightist, etc. How do you say young lawyers can argue for a matter which is against such disposition?

    If a judge has a strong pre-conceived disposition towards a particular ideology, it would be wrong to bring these notions to the Bench while hearing a case. Unfortunately, this does happen and socialist / leftist / rightist notions do influence the thinking of judges on the bench. Not only young lawyers but even senior lawyers will find it difficult to argue before a judge who has strong pre-conceived notions. It will require great skills of advocacy to persuade the judge not to allow his notion or ideology to influence the outcome.

     

    What were the landmarks of your career which led to your designation as a Senior Advocate? Please share with us the challenges and achievements you came across on your journey from being a fresh graduate to a Senior Advocate?

    There have been several cases which were stepping stones that eventually led to my designation as a senior advocate. I had specialized in taxation and company law and I argued a number of cases before the High Courts, Tribunals and Company Law Board. Further, my articles, books on Central Excise and my editing of Ramaiya’s Book on Company Law also helped to substantially increase my practice particularly in the Company Law Board. Eventually, I was appearing in a number of important company law, tax and commercial cases and this led to my designation as a senior advocate.

    The initial challenges were financial in nature and it took me 11 years to buy my first second-hand car. To supplement my professional income, I took to writing of articles, books and also being a part-time lecturer. This, indirectly, helped in building up my practice as well. By writing and giving lectures, one get’s known in corporate circles and this also increases your practice.

     

    How is it being a Senior Advocate? Do you think titles like this can change one’s recognition drastically? Does it enhance the responsibility? How has your work profile changed as a Senior Advocate?

    A senior advocate has great responsibility. The client and the advocate on record place all their trust in you. In most cases, the advocates on record and instructing counsel prepare the case very well and the senior advocate has then to plan the strategy for presenting the case. This has to be done after detailed examination of the facts, the case-law and the statutory provisions.

    My working profile drastically changed as a senior advocate. I was able to argue in a number of cases outside the area of my specialization. This also helped me to learn several new areas including arbitration, environmental law mining and intellectual property.

     

    You have several best-selling legal books like ‘Nani Palkhivala: The Courtroom Genius’, ‘Datar Commentary on Constitution of India’ and ‘Guide to Central Excise Law and Practice: With Accounting Practices’ to your credit. How important is writing for you?

    Writing is extremely important for me. In the earlier years, writing of articles and then writing of a book on Central Excise was critical in building my practice. The writing of books forced me to carefully study the statutory provisions and case laws. You have to understand the entire Act and the relevant subordinate legislation. You have to always keep in mind the object or purpose of the enactment. This understanding will not come even if we prepare extensively for a case. The writing of a book helps to understand the structure of a particular statute. One has to compare similar provisions in other enactments and development of law over several years.

    I have always told young lawyers that they must write a commentary in the area of their specialization.

     

    What do you look for in your interns when they apply for a position to work with you? If there is someone who wants your guidance, what should he/she do?

    Since substantial part of my practice relates to taxation, I insist that the interns should have completed a course in taxation. If they do not have a basic knowledge of taxation, their internship will not be fruitful. Whenever younger lawyers wanted my guidance /advice, I have always tried to help the young lawyers to the extent possible.

     

    There have been quite a few booms and busts in the legal industry. What do you think about the future of legal education in India? How do you say a student can manage to stay ahead of the ‘rat race’?

    I think that the future of legal education is not bright because there are too many law colleges and very few lecturers. It is not possible to have competent lecturers for all these institutions. Earlier, many lawyers were part-time lecturers. We had a number of successful lawyers who taught in the morning or in the evening. This excellent practice has unfortunately been discontinued. There must be a complete halt to any new law college as the supply far exceeds the demand. There must also be a strict entrance exam so that a minimum qualification standard is maintained.

    Students can stay ahead of the rat-race by constantly reading books, keeping abreast of the latest developments. Students must also make full use of their internship so that they can decide their area of specialization.

     

    What would be your advice to young law students? Whether they should join a firm or practice at bar? How should they approach the legal career?

    Young lawyers should join civil offices where there is extensive trial work. In my view, the best thing is to work for one year in civil office and another year in an office specializing in criminal work. This will give young lawyers an excellent foundation in basic civil and criminal laws. Thereafter, he can specialize in any subject. They can choose to become solicitors or focus on chamber practice. Alternatively, they can go into litigation. The two years spent in civil / criminal practice, will be very useful in dealing with a wide variety of cases and should be treated as a long-term investment.
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  • Aviral Sahai on winning moots (NLS Arbitration), receiving Naveen Jindal scholarship, appointment, work at AMSS

    Aviral Sahai on winning moots (NLS Arbitration), receiving Naveen Jindal scholarship, appointment, work at AMSS

    Aviral Sahai is a graduate from Jindal Global Law School (Batch of 2014). He has an enviable academic record and an excellent series of internships at top law firms. He has been the Recipient of the Naveen Jindal Young Scholarship. He underwent an academic exchange program with Maurer School of Law, Indiana University, Bloomingtion, Indiana, USA during his law school days. His diligence paid off when he received a job offer from AMSS in 5th year of law school.

    In this interview, he talks about:

    • Winning moot court competitions including NLS International Arbitration Moot
    • Experience as a part of an International Student Exchange Program
    • Appointment at AMSS

     

    Our readers consist of law aspirants, law students and young lawyers. How will you introduce yourself to them?

    I’m a corporate lawyer, who aspired to become a litigator, got into law school wanting to pursue international law and took up science in plus two. On hindsight I might seem like a confused soul, but I tend to take the best out of what is on offer. So, as an introduction, today, I am a corporate lawyer who is trying not to plan too ahead and enjoying his tryst with a side of law he never thought he would practice.

     

    Tell us about your pre-college life? When did you decide to take up law as a career? Did you have lawyers in family?

    No. There have been no lawyers in even my extended family for 3 generations. I think that was the prime reason for doing law, “even if I’m a bad lawyer, I’ll be the best in the family”.

    I am an alumnus of La Martiniere for Boys, Kolkata, and, as whoever is familiar with the vibe of the city will understand, I was quite laidback in life. I was a science student and did considerably less than my fair bit of tuitions. Plain and simple, I did not want to be an engineer or doctor and just wanted to do something different.

    On a serious note however, I am a lawyer because of my father. He is an ex-army officer who runs his own business now and has always had an aptitude for lateral thinking. Sometime during my class 11 he asked me what I wanted to do in life, which, quite honestly I had not considered up until that point in time. Even while I was a good student, I think I always hoped that life would turn out to be 6 hours of school and doing whatever I want the rest of the day.

    I think my father already knew that I hadn’t given much thought to the question so he himself suggested the idea of law. It had always been his passion to pursue the subject, and he just wanted me to explore the idea. After that, I was hooked. I read up a little, recalled a few episodes of Boston Legal and made up my mind.

    Also, Lawyers are really smart.

     

    In India there is quite a lot of resistance towards legal education even now. What motivated you to choose law as a career? How did you get through to JGLS?

    The resistance, I think, has dramatically lessened. A mix of factors are involved in this,  liberalisation of the economy, institution of national law schools and the base realisation that law permeates every single activity an individual carries out (and perhaps people have come to realise the absurdity of the amount one can get paid in this profession). I think the outlook towards a child becoming a lawyer in future is changing radically. Becoming a lawyer is, at least where I come from, no longer a fall back option for someone who failed to make the cut-off for IITs. It takes an immense amount of dedication and focus to have even the slightest chance of doing well as a lawyer.

    I understand however, that my views may be restricted by my background, but I always got a lot of support at home and from friends with respect to my career choice. Also, it was fun to befuddle people when they ask why I would take up science in school and pursue law thereafter.

    JGLS was a big gamble for me. Just before sitting for my Class 12 boards, I took a one month crash course with LST, just to familiarize myself with the entrance examinations I was supposed to take. The vice-chancellor of JGU, Mr. C. Raj Kumar, had come to one of the sessions at LST and given us brochures JGU. His vision of the university pushed me to apply for the LSAT. I sat for the exam and got a 91 percentile which was good enough I suppose. I got through a few national law schools as well, including GNLU and NLU, Delhi.

    While the fees discrepancy was a major concern, I finally made my decision based purely on the academic infrastructure that could have been given. At that point, JGLS seemed like the best bet academically, and it sure didn’t disappoint. Academically speaking, I firmly believe that we have the best professors and curriculum. It’s available for those who want to make something out of it.

     

    You have been the Recipient of the Naveen Jindal Young Scholarship. How did it happen? What is the criterion to apply? How did you go about your application process?

    The Naveen Jindal Young Global Scholarship is awarded to one student per batch and is based entirely on merit. The application process consists of writing an essay on why you think you deserve the award, obtaining a recommendation from a teacher and an interview follows thereafter.

    JGLS offers a fair number of scholarships and this was one of the few you could apply for beforehand. I filled out the application not knowing anything about such processes. I checked a few samples online and just wrote out an essay which, in retrospect, wouldn’t be one of the best exhibits to take credit of. Nevertheless, I was shortlisted and had a telephonic interview which was just a discussion on what I want to do in life with the then Vice-Dean of the law school.

    One thing I would add to anyone attempting to write a Statement of Purpose or one of these obscure “why do you think you deserve …” essays, please try and be honest. There is no harm in paying your cards straight. These essays are not looking for someone who underplays their achievements. If you have achieved something, state it with the utmost pride, and even if you haven’t, tell them why. It’s just supposed to be simple. The same goes for any interview or application you make. Simple and straightforward. Regrettably, not many people have the time and patience to go through the flourish of one’s language or self-doubt.

     

    You have worked for AMSS, Khaitan and Co. and Karanjawala & Co. as an intern. What kind of work did you have to do there? Our readers would be quite curious to know how you went about securing these internships.

    My college has quite a vibrant career development cell (CDPD). I must confess, I have never applied for any internship by myself. We had a set process whereby a peer review system had been created to draft and review CVs. Once this was done, the CDPD would forwards our CVs to institutions/individuals based on our preferences. I understand that most students go about securing internships by themselves but it is quite difficult for those of us who do not come from a legal background and have to start making contacts at an early stage. Having an institutionalized process really helps traverse this gap of not knowing people in the legal community beforehand.

    My work varied a lot at all the places I interned. The main factor for determining the nature of work that I did was not my educational progress but actually my willingness to work. I have worked late nights as a 3rd year student at Khaitan assisting in a Due Diligence. Seeing that I was willing to work, I was given drafting work as well. Obviously, as one progresses as a student, the nature of work given becomes more challenging and expectation rise. The difference, however, that I noticed as an intern in a corporate law firm and a litigation law firm was the hands on involvement. At Khaitan or AMSS I was involved more in documentation, research and diligence; whereas, at Karanjawala, I was expected to sit and help formulate arguments for a writ petition. There is no hierarchy of quality of work between fields of law, either as an intern or as an associate. My effort always has been to ensure that whatever work I am given, I can satisfactorily say that I put in my best efforts.

     

    How relevant did you find your law school education with the kind of work you were required to do at law firms?

    Frankly, while many of my peers from national law schools attribute most of their progress as a lawyer primarily to the internships that they had, I think the education I received at JGLS gave me an immense edge at my internships. We have been well trained in legal writing, drafting and researching added to which, we have, in my five years of education, been offered over 100 electives in varying fields. Every student in my batch has ended up taking at least 15-16 electives in subjects we liked.

    For instance, in my third year I was conversant with the repercussions of having a put option in a loan document which not many of peers had the chance to explore. Law school education, while pedantic at times and obsessed with completing the syllabus, at JGLS has honestly helped a great deal in preparing me for practical experiences as a lawyer.

     

    You were a part of the team which won the 4th edition of the NLS International Arbitration Moot Court Competition. You have been awarded the Best Counsel award at 1st CDR-NLUD Pakistan India Moot Competition. Tell us about your experience.

    Winning the NLS moot is perhaps one of the most exhilarating and proud moments of my tenure at law school. It was the first national moot competition that JGLS had won. We did not have any seniors to guide us or any experienced peers to help us out. The three of us worked on the moot from scratch and built ourselves tremendously through the competition itself. We actually sat and learnt on the spot while participating in the moot. Also, our professors did invest a lot in helping us create a grasp over our basics, not legally, but simple things such as how to sit, maintaining voice modulation and even when to nod and make eye contact with the judges.

    The same was the case for CDR, after a point of time, the mood of the court did not depend on what authorities I had to back my arguments, but how I made them and whether I understood what the court demanded at the time. Any moot is a two stage process. First, is your research which gives you the confidence to say whatever you want to say; then, comes the part when you actually display this confidence in the right manner. I can say, with utmost pride, that we had read every single page of every single authority that we had cited in our memorial for NLS (nearly 150 cases, articles and commentaries).

    There is honestly no difference in the skill set required to excel at moot courts. It just takes sheer commitment. The knowledge that you are not perfect and that you will mould yourself to deliver the best possible form of your argument in the simplest and most comprehensible manner possible is what is required. I was quite surely not the best mooter in my college at any point, but it takes an immensely balanced team, which I had the fortune of being part of, and clarity on the fact that jargon and/or spewing research will only take you that far. The additional push comes from the connection that you are willing to forge with both, the judges and your opponents. Make them see the sanity and logic in your argument and follow it up with undeniable facts. That, I think, is what it takes to excel at moot court competitions.

    It is no different for oral rounds. Understandably, some are nervous or not confident in their speaking abilities and others have a natural flair, but the confidence comes from preparation and practice. You have to be sure of what you know and that there is no more to know about it. Also, this will stand true for any career path that is followed after law school, be it while briefing your seniors for court or in a law firm or speaking to a client. Everyone understands and admires smart and concise delivery of opinions, even if you are sometimes wrong in the formulation of that opinion.

    There is one thing that I have told every junior that I have helped with respect to mooting, it is something that what one of the judges told us in the first round at NLS, “a judge is like a child, you have to hold his finger and walk him through everything.”

     

    A lot of students tend to ignore their academics while preparing for a moot. How did you manage the academic pressure?

    I simply coped with it.

    I have prepared for big moots and made the same commitment to my academics. If it is difficult for one to balance the two, then you need to take a call on what is more important. For me, I stayed up nights working on my memo and went to class with a few hours of sleep. While the same is not healthy if subsisting for a long while, it is just something that I made a call on and decided to stick to.

     

    You have been a member of multiple committees while in law school. Do you think these enhanced your skill-sets? Please share a few of your memorable experience.

    Being part of a new law school without the umbrella protection of being a national law school is quite tough. There is a lot of trial and error and a number of new experiences for both the students as well as the college administration. A few batch mates and made a decision to become part of the policy framing process. Being part of committees such as the placement committee and the student academic committee has really enhanced the manner in which I work.

    I have learnt to be part of a functioning team and have learnt to manage and lead projects and efforts, which includes taking the responsibility of getting the job done, taking the blame for any drawbacks and even facing the backlash from my peers as well as the administration. But, I have definitely come out of it for the better. I am much more comfortable being a part of a team which requires me to fulfil my role efficiently as well as managing myself at the helm of responsibility.

    Apart from learning how to function within a team, being a part of all these committees taught me a number of human relations skills that just can’t be taught. I learnt how to talk to strangers and make a conversation, ask for something, promise performance in return, communicate issues and manage crisis situations. Even while at a very small scale, these experiences really aid in one’s development in a professional working environment.

     

    You underwent an academic exchange programme with Maurer School of Law, Indiana University, Bloomingtion, Indiana, USA. What did you benefit from the student exchange programme? In terms of academics how will you distinguish Maurer School of Law with JGLS?

    My SoP for Indiana University was based on a simple request, that I be exposed to a system of education that is different from the one I have been bred in. I wanted to get out of our traditional education system in India where we grab a book, mug it up, give the exam and forget about it in a few months’ time.

    Indiana University, in that regard, was a welcome change. The academic process was very student centric. Classes are small and the emphasis on knowledge building was higher. The exposure that I received was my biggest take away from the exchange program. I was exposed to students who took the law very seriously and analysed it not just from the perspective of practice, but of academia.

    JGLS has incorporated a number of the values of the American legal education system. The concept of weekly tutorials, reading intensive seminar format of classes and extensive professor-student communication is highly promoted at JGLS and I saw the same being mirrored at Indiana University. However, JGLS, just as any other university in India, is, at the end, marred by the professors teaching in it and the students receiving the education. It is quite difficult to get students, who are used to a textbook based approach to education, to embrace a more liberal form of understanding a subject as immensely immersive as the law.

     

    What was your experience while interacting with law students from different universities? What is the difference in their approach, as compared to Indian law students?

    There is one major difference between Indian law students and American law students, as I saw them in Indiana University, that being they are graduate students. In India, the 5 year integrated program is much more popular and students fresh from school enter law school without an iota of the effort it takes. I was one of them.

    As a graduate student, law students are much more adept at handling the pressures of a college education, they can cope with the mental and physical stress and not much time is wasted in acclimatisation. More often than not, if a system is alien to us, we shut it out and the acceptance comes too late to learn more. Many of us, today, feel that a few subjects that we did in our first few years at law school would have been so much more interesting had we been accustomed to the work culture such subjects demanded. Students in law schools abroad are already trained in such aspects and consequently can adjust faster.

     

    Currently, you are working at AMSS. How did your appointment take place? What worked for you in securing the job?

    I was offered a placement in my fourth year with Amarchand & Mangaldas at our day zero placements. The process was pretty standard, we had a group discussion round after which students were shortlisted for personal interviews. I think what worked most in my favour was, as I said before, keeping it simple and straightforward.

    Technical strength is a given of course. I was asked about the nature of the work that I had completed in my past internships and my favourite subjects in law school, on which I was even asked hypothetical questions. The group discussion as well as the interview demands just one thing, certainty. I realised that I had to be certain and clear on what I said in both these rounds. That is one of the things that works at interviews, I guess.

     

    Many law students strongly believe that getting a job at one of the top 3 law firms is mostly about securing a high GPA. Would you agree?

    Not entirely. A good GPA, in my opinion, serves just purpose in securing a job at one of the top law firms. The only function of a good CGPA is that it gives you time. At an interview, the first thing that the employer looks at is your CGPA, not to gauge whether you know anything about the law, but to know whether you have the commitment towards your academics to make sure you excel. As it fortunately happened with me, if the employer sees that you have a good CGPA, he/she will not waste time in asking you about why your CGPA is low/why you faltered in certain subjects and will automatically assume your commitment towards getting the job done.

    This frees up so much time for everyone involved to have a much more direct conversation about the job itself and they spend more time gauging whether you know your law and whether you can work in a law firm, they already know you are focussed and committed. All said and done, however, CGPAs would rarely improve or negate your chances if you are certain about yourself.

     

    If you could re-live your five years in Law school, is there something you would do differently?

    Nothing at all. I cherish each and every moment. Perhaps I could have done a little bit more theatre, but then again, it wouldn’t be law school if I had the time to do it.

     

    Lastly, what would be your parting message for our readers?

    Please don’t take anything I say too seriously. At the end of the day, I am still just another corporate lawyer who aspires to be a litigator. I’m still planning things out myself.

    Do try and enjoy the law though, it is quite possibly the most stimulating academic experience you might go through. I still love it.

  • Shouvik Kr. Guha on higher grades, winning gold medals, Lexbioxis and teaching

    Shouvik Kr. Guha on higher grades, winning gold medals, Lexbioxis and teaching

    shouvik-guha-3Shouvik Kumar Guha pursued his B.A.LL.B. and LL.M. from West Bengal National University of Juridical Sciences, Kolkata. He has been associated with IDIA since the days of its inception. He has numerous publications in prestigious journals to his name and has authored few books also. He had always planned to pursue a career in academics since his days in law school. Presently, he is working as an Assistant Professor at WBNUJS.

    In this interview, he talks about:

    Getting high grades and winning gold medals
    Co-founding Lexbiosis, Legal Industry Academia Collaboration
    Opting for teaching

     

    How would you like to introduce yourself? Tell us a bit about your childhood and pre-college life as well as educational background.

    This is a slightly difficult question to answer. Different people in my life know me in different capacities and there is only a handful, who can claim to know me well enough to vouch for what I am saying here. I have no illusion about myself and I guess what I am above all else, is someone who tries to do as much as he can whenever he can of whatever feels the right thing to do –that’s it.

    I have been fortunate enough to have had as wonderful a childhood as one can hope for. I hail from a rather humble family myself and my family has throughout my life done everything it can to support me in all my pursuits. I am immensely grateful to my teachers too for having played a pivotal role in me turning into the person that I am today. I was never all-devoted towards academics, although the passion for reading had been inculcated within me very early in my life.

    Mathematics and languages were what I used to spend all my studying time on. My primary education, which in my opinion is in many ways the most important one in a person’s life, had taken place in a school of vernacular medium, but of great repute. I later shifted to an English medium school, though I still probably identify myself as a product of the former rather than the latter. I was engaged in scores of extra-curricular activities, ranging from sports (cricket, swimming, athletics, martial arts and so on) to debates and quizzes and I enjoyed every bit of it. I had been inflicted with wanderlust at a very early age and have got many opportunities right from the beginning in my life to indulge in that love, all across the country and beyond, on one pretext or another.

     

    How did your interest gravitate towards law?

    Well, I had often been told that my love for reading and writing and penchant for reasoned arguments might make life easier for me if I opted for this line of work. However, it was more of chance that had brought me down this path. I was studying Economics in the Presidency College, when I happened to give the entrance examination for NUJS as a sort of dare with absolutely no prior preparation. I did not do very badly by playing to my strengths during those two hours and after a lot of debates and discussion, I thought it might be interesting to give law a chance. Once I started studying it earnestly, law was quick to seize my fascination. However, my love for Economics and Mathematics did continue to reflect in my inclination towards financial laws and related disciplines.

     

    You have done your graduation and post-graduation from WBNUJS. How would you describe your experience as? How does it feel to be an Assistant Professor in the same college from where you graduated?

    I loved my college life with all my being. Still do, as a matter of fact, despite all that have changed since the day I had arrived at this place. It was sort of a Golden Age for NUJS when I had joined back in 2005 as a student rather green behind his ears. From my very first day, I was fortunate enough to be guided and inspired by a superb group of seniors, batchmates and some exceptional teachers. NUJS was undergoing a transformation from my second year onwards, with Prof. M.P. Singh having taken charge as the vice-chancellor. I was therefore lucky to have been taught by many of the experienced teachers from the Menon and Chimni Eras, as well as the younger batch of dynamic faculty members, who had joined during Prof. Singh’s tenure. We lacked a lot of things in terms of infrastructure during the initial years. To access legal databases now deemed commonplace across all NLUs, we had to go across the city to the British Council and American Centre libraries.

    However, there was one thing that had been driven into our minds from the very first semester –our journey had just begun and we had not achieved anything great simply by gaining entry in NUJS. On the contrary, it is what we would do in course of the five years that we spend here, that will define us as law students and subsequently, lawyers fit to join the profession. If there was something almost every NUJS student used to share back then, it was an acute hunger –hunger to be the best at what he or she would do. I take almost inordinate pride in having been a part of this institution from back those days. The sheer level of confidence that an NUJS graduate would have in his or abilities to tackle any possible predicament will always beggar belief –and that is an integral aspect of being a successful legal professional, no matter of which hue.

    My own batch was a maverick one, but insanely cool, yes! We had all sorts, from the studious note-taker, to the happy-go-lucky truant, from the great mooter to the superb debater to the best of sportspersons. Well, if I start reminiscing about them, this interview would be continuing even when the next batch graduates! I have seen a lot of things change since then. We have had our share of ups and downs. The important thing is not to stagnate, but keep going on, preserving the best from the past and tempering it with the curiosity, needs and efforts of the present, so as to forge it into a legacy that would live up to the scrutiny of the future. Through the years, I have come to love this institution and its members as my extended family and I have found that there is no price too high to pay to ensure its continued excellence. That is why I chose to come back from a corporate job to this place.

    While I have always enjoyed challenging research or finding solutions to problems, I only came be love teaching after joining NUJS. Even before my graduation, I had often taught junior batches and when I discovered from the student feedback that I was not doing a total hash of the job and that I am enjoying it a lot too, it was not a matter of if I will come back, but merely when. There is one thing that will always set NUJS apart – its students. If I may be pardoned for mixing metaphors, they have always been the catalyst to shape this institution into what it had been and I consider myself fortunate for being in a position to teach and learn from them in the foreseeable future. Every bit of success that a student achieves, I feel proud for as if it’s been my own, every occasional setback that they face becomes my personal uphill climb. That is what NUJS does –it makes you a part of it and does not let go.

     

    What do you like best about teaching at NUJS? Which subject(s) do you teach? Which one interests you the most? Why?

    Students, students and students. The life of a teacher, who is keen to do what is best for the students and also advance the university to progressively increasing heights of glory, is not entirely smooth sailing inside NUJS. However, I just forget all the other problems when I am dealing with the students, whether inside or outside the classroom. I think having been on the other side of the podium not too long ago helps me to figure out the problems faced by the students a lot quicker and come up with solutions acceptable to them. Each student has tremendous potential in one form or another. It is part of the teacher’s duty to ensure that he/she lives up to it. No one is happier than me when a student of mine informs me of success achieved by him/her, no one is more concerned when a student confesses about a problem he/she is having. My students are my family and my responsibility, plain and simple, and in several ways, they have taught me more than vice-versa.

    So far, I have tried to offer papers pertaining mostly to financial laws, subjects which are likely to be useful to an NLU graduate intending to etch his/her name in the corporate world. That does not mean I believe that is the only career option available to the students. Just that the number of competent teachers offering similar papers is really less in the legal education sector. Just like most of my batchmates, I too have done my share of griping about such lack and now that I am in a position to do something about it, not doing so would make my earlier actions seem a tad hypocritical.

    I have offered papers like The Law & Practice of Project Finance, International Investment Law, The Principles of Insurance Law, Banking Law & N.I. Act, International Banking Law etc. I would really love the opportunity to offer papers related to Corporate Law and Competition Law sometime, both of which are the subjects closest to my heart. Of the papers I have offered so far, Project Finance would be my foremost choice, since I framed this course out of scratch and offered it in an NLU probably for the first time, seeking to incorporate valuable inputs from industry practitioners about what exactly they would like an NLU intern/graduate to be conversant about when he/she joins their team. So far, the students who have opted for this course have provided considerably favourable feedback – many of them have told me how they have fared well during their internships and been praised because of aspects discussed in these classes. These are really moments that make each and every frustration that one may face in this profession seem worthwhile.  Depending upon the capacity of students to absorb, I would like to increasingly convert my courses to suit industry standards, involving drafting, negotiations, case studies, transactional work etc. – essentially the way high finance usually works in the real world instead of mere theoretical know-how.

     

    Before joining as an Assistant Prof., you worked as a Research Associate and Guest Lecturer at WBNUJS. How was the experience?

    I have always loved taking up challenges in terms of research and my stint at NUJS has provided a lot of such prospects. From contracts to corporate mergers, from media and entertainment law issues to intellectual property matters, the sheer diversity of research that I have been entrusted with so far vindicates my decision to join academia over and over again. I am and shall always be grateful to Prof. M.P. Singh for giving me this opportunity early on, even though formal rules and practices often require a prior LL.M. degree to join as a Research Associate or Assistant. Prof. Singh, however, has always believed in not letting formalities come in the way of progress and he had allowed me the former position even before I could start with my Masters Programme. The little bit of administrative know-how that I have gained in course of this, including conducting the Common Law Admission Test, 2011 and supervising diploma courses offered at NUJS, has also considerably enriched my experiences.

    When it comes to teaching, I have been doing that since a few years now, first as a Teaching Assistant and then as a Guest Lecturer and finally, as an Assistant Professor. Honestly speaking, the different capacities do not mean anything different for me, apart from perhaps the fact that I can requisition stationaries with impunity now! All I know is that when I take up the responsibility of teaching a subject to my students, I owe it to each and every one of them to give my hundred percent on a 24/7 basis. If there is a shred of doubt left in any of their minds about any aspect of the course after it has been over, then that is my failure as a teacher. The duties of a teacher cannot remain confined within the classroom walls, they will rightly spill over into the students’ lives outside the classes too. I have been taught by some brilliant teachers and I am lucky to have their footsteps to follow in. Discipline without the imposition of irrational rigour, creating an environment wherein different questions and perspectives and free exchange of ideas are positively encouraged, exhorting the students to bring out their best in what they do –these are all that a teacher ought to strive for. Simply put, my students are my life and I would give up everything else over and over again to teach them and learn from them in turn both inside and outside classroom. I strive to be a teacher who makes himself progressively unnecessary and hopefully, one who gives the student something to take home to think about besides homework!

     

    How did you decide to go into academics? What would be your advice to those law students who wish to go into academia but are instead forced to opt for other fields that are considered more lucrative?

    I never thought I would ever opt for an academic life before I came to NUJS. Once I found out academic and policy-based research, as well as teaching at this level is something I am enjoying and not entirely bad at either, coming back was a foregone conclusion –it was a simply a matter of when. Of course, I chose my alma mater because I am, as I have been rightly accused of from time to time, an “NUJS man through and through!”

    I can completely understand the plight of someone who wants to opt for an academic life, but has been compelled by circumstances, mostly financial, to opt for other fields instead. I myself had been in similar shoes not that long ago. To them I would say, if you are good enough in what you do and have confidence in your abilities, you can earn the living you need pretty easily, irrespective of which career you end up choosing. I myself was burdened with an educational loan, although the burden was fortunately eased to a certain extent by virtue of scholarships. However, I managed to settle that debt quicker than many who were engaged in corporate jobs. Circumstances may prevent you from taking that leap of faith in the very beginning, but if you really would like to be a part of this world, you can perhaps take a small detour, all the while keeping your sight firmly on this place. I will not pretend that it is not a difficult life at times, but I have also found it far more rewarding than any other option I might have chosen in its stead. If you love what you are doing for a living, whether it be the road oft-taken or its more deserted counterpart, it really does make all the difference.

     

    shouvik-guha-2

    As a law student, you consistently excelled in academics and bagged a Gold Medal in your LL.M. course from WBNUJS. What are the 3 most important tips that you would like to share with law students for consistently excelling in academics?

    Yes, I was sort of dreading this embarrassing moment. I have scrupulously tried avoiding medals of any sort throughout my LL.B. days. Unfortunately, maintaining the resolve turned out to be too much of an effort during my post-graduation phase! See, I have never been the sort of student who would like to prepare for examinations. I never liked them and considered them to be at best unavoidable inconveniences. Even now I do not see many reasons to revise my perspective. I believe there are several more interesting alternatives for gauging a student’s prowess in a discipline. Excellence in academics to me simply means never giving up any opportunity to learn more about the subject that I am studying. If you like reading about a particular subject, then it is your personal decision whether you want to be the best in it. However, as a teacher, I accept nothing less from my students than their complete devotion towards being good in that subject and keep on improving further with the passage of every single day. You do not have to give up everything else in your life; on the contrary, you cannot get so lost among the trees as to be unable to recognize the forest for what it is. Keep calm, prioritize your objectives, manage your time well and never let your sense of propriety or any other sense for that matter, swallow your curiosity –that in essence will mean you can achieve pretty much whatever you want.

    Regarding achievement of success, be it professional or personal, I can give this example. NUJS offers law of torts as a subject in the very first semester of the B.A. LL.B. programme. After the end-semester examinations are over, students are usually anxious about their results, grades etc. This is what I say to them –their official academic training in torts is over. The question is whether they are feeling confident enough to represent a client tomorrow in a tortuous matter and provide him the best legal advice possible, or to teach the next batch law of torts in the semester after next. If the answer is yes, then their grade in law of torts doesn’t really matter. If the answer is no, then also, sadly, their grade in law of torts doesn’t really matter. In other words, if you are good in what you do, then irrespective of everything else, success will always hunt you down; you cannot possibly escape from it!

     

    You have co-founded Lexbiosis, Legal Industry Academia Collaboration. How did you go about achieving this? What is the overall model of Lexbiosis?

    Actually, Lexbiosis is originally the brainchild of Dr. Shamnad Basheer, who is one of the country’s top experts on Intellectual Property Law and had also been the Ministry of HRD IP Chair Professor at NUJS for several years. I have had the fortune of working with him even before I had graduated and also of having him as one of my mentors. He has always encouraged young law students to engage in meaningful research, reiterating time and again that it is never too early to start.

    We have also found that law firms or companies or practicing advocates or other professionals are always on the lookout for quality legal research and committed, intelligent researchers capable of thinking laterally. Using bright NLU students for this purpose not only helps these students gain invaluable experience and exposure to the real world scenario, but it also helps them to learn several soft skills and professional discipline. These researchers are also graded according to their performance and subsequently, when these firms or companies initiate their recruitment drives, these grades and certificates are made available to them. This provides the recruiter a very good yardstick of judging the capabilities of a potential future employee. The fact that it is also cost-effective to the law firms to get such research done by these students doesn’t harm either! Lexbiosis is, however, a fledging organization, and we hope this model will witness an exponential organic growth in the days to come.

     

    You have authored various papers in many reputed Law journals. What role do publications play in the life of an academician? What, in your view, are the few most important skills that law students should strive to acquire in order to write research papers effectively?

    Now this is an interesting question. I know of many an academician who treats publications as stepping stones towards glory or merely to score academic points to further their careers. I also know of several who cannot care any less for such factors and simply write about a topic because they feel strongly about it and wish to make their point heard/read. Personally, I feel fortunate to be inclined towards the latter category.

    I do not really think there are any ten commandments for writing a good paper. However, I will try to mention a few things that I have found helpful for myself. First of all, your motive should preferably be not merely to publish in order for enhancing your CV, but because you have a genuine interest in the topic concerned and you would like to express your views on the same. There’s no harm in building CV, but what I am saying is that it should not be the primary objective for writing a paper. Several students have asked me they want to start legal writing and whether I can suggest them a topic to write. I do not really believe that’s how it works! You come across a topic, read about it, get interested, read about it some more, start forming an opinion about it, test your opinion against the existing ones, find pros and cons for both sides and then form your argument and defences against counter-arguments –for me at least, that’s how it has always worked, which is why I ended up writing on a few rather esoteric topics, simply because I was reading something in relation to them and they piqued my interest.

    You also need to read. I mean, a lot! That’s one of the key features to being a good lawyer. And I don’t mean merely law books –read anything and everything that you can lay your hands on! One of the reasons I have chosen academia is because I can still continue pandering to my rather voracious bibliophilic self. Familiarizing yourself with the usual legal research databases helps a lot. Even the ability to do an efficient and expedited internet search is something that can prove to be astonishingly helpful. There are free-to-use websites like SSRN and Academia.edu that contain a treasure-trove of useful research materials. Another important thing is perhaps to remind yourself repeatedly of the needs, as well as the wants of the audience you’re addressing. Different people respond to different forms of writing. The sooner you can figure that out for yourself, the better are your writing skills going to be. The NLU students can get an early edge in terms of academic legal writing because of the projects and assignments that they have to mandatorily write. I remember how several of my early projects had been converted into subsequent papers, once the teachers concerned assured me that reading them had not been a complete waste of their time! Merely reiterating what others have said earlier and embellishing it with ten footnotes per page may seem adequate to get your paper published in some journal, but that sort of thing has never appealed to me. Academic web-blogs are here to stay now and some of their contents, albeit differently posited and presented than, say, a journal article, are not inferior by any means whatsoever. Academic plagiarism is another important issue for consideration, but that is something for another day.

     

    shouvik-guha

    You have been associated with IDIA from the days of its inception. Please tell us a bit about IDIA and your journey with IDIA.

    The IDIA project is something that is very close to my heart. What can a teacher want more than to ensure that every single deserving person gets the opportunity for a higher education by overcoming all obstacles in his or her path? We, who are part of the IDIA family, do not engage in charity. To say so would be an affront to our scholars. They do not want charity, they simply want to be recognized for what they are and what they can do. When I see an IDIA scholar hailing from the remotest village in the country earning accolades in NLUs and competing with their more privileged fellow batchmates without giving any quarter, the pleasure I derive from that is simply indescribable. I myself have come from a lower-middle-income family and I can identify with most of the problems that our scholars face. That is what makes it seem all the more amazing when they continue displaying courage, tenacity and perseverance in their academic and extra-curricular activities.

    In the short spell of a few years, IDIA has come far and it is also getting increasing support from established legal professionals pledged to its mission. The way student volunteers from NLUs have responded to this movement is without parallel! I do not know of a single other instance wherein students from any professional and hectic course have fought for a worthy cause en mass! Right now, we have more than forty scholars studying across different law schools and almost twenty state chapters and national verticals, all raring to play their own roles in this movement to facilitate inclusiveness and diversity in legal education in India. Several innovative projects are also in the pipeline and we would love every single law student, academic or other professionals to be a part of the IDIA family. For further details on our achievements and activities and how to be a part of IDIA, please refer to our official website (www.idialaw.com).

     

    What are the main essential qualities of an Academician? What do you think differentiates between lawyers who chose academics from those of other professions?

    Integrity, both towards himself/herself and towards his/her subject, discipline, commitment and an insatiable sense of curiosity. Well, strictly speaking, these are the hallmarks of any successful being and I do not see why an academician would be considered as an exception either. For far too long, legal academics have been treated as left-overs of the profession. When I had shifted to academics myself, a lot of people including even those who were part of this world, were quite surprised at my decision –for in their opinion, this role was for someone without any ambition or other recourse. I strongly disagree. If anything, this role brings along with it a sense of responsibility that many other forms of practice of law may be lacking in.

    Having said that, I truly believe there is little to choose between two people who have devoted themselves towards efficiency and excellence, one a legal academic and the other a legal practitioner, both very much in love with their respective work. Just like there is little to differentiate between two people, who are pursuing the same two careers, but with reluctance and little or no initiative to better themselves, instead allowing their responsibilities to falter and their abilities to stagnate. While sky is the limit for the former, the latter would do themselves and many other people a whole lot of good by bidding their respective professions adieu.

     

    What would be your advice for law students who want to take up the profession of teaching?

    Not much different from what I would advise their fellow students who intend to pursue other professions –be good in what you like. A teacher has to earn the respect of his/her students just like any other professional has to earn the approval of his/her superiors and colleagues. Students are as intelligent as the teacher and often more so, the latter just has had more time in honing his/her skills and managed to pick up a little bit more experience along the road.

    This does not mean one needs to be all-knowing; simply do your homework with an effort many times than that of the student in doing his own. One must not lose touch with his/her inner student and cross over entirely to the ‘Dark Side’, so to speak! At the same time, one must take care not to get lost within the groves of academe and become agoraphobic with respect to the external world and the industry practices. I try my best to stay in touch with the latest developments in my subject and how it influences the legal dynamic from both theoretical as well as practical perspectives.

    Otherwise, what I say to my students would become with the passage of time a mere fossilized redundancy and would be of no use whatsoever to them. However, all that comes later. As a student, all that you must do is observe, learn, evaluate and file for future use and last but not the least, enjoy these priceless moments that are not going to recur in your life! I consider law students to be (at least for the most part) grown-up individuals, fully capable of making their own decisions in life.

    The key point is making informed decisions. Trying your hand at activities that require public speaking, be it mooting, or debating or simply making presentations, may turn out to be useful for later. You also need to try your best to understand the much-elusive ‘other party’s perspective’. When you enter a classroom full of students, you would have to cater to their individual needs and not take care of a selected sample only.

    As William Ward had said once, “The mediocre teacher tells. The good teacher explains. The superior teacher demonstrates. The great teacher inspires.”

    If you ever start losing the love for learning, well then, run like hell away from this vocation and do not look back, for it is surely not for you anymore! Remember that it is always your choice to be which type of teacher you want to be: the kind that fills the student with so much dry boredom that the latter cannot move, or the kind that just gives the student a little and timely prod that is just right for the latter to jump to the skies.

  • Sandeep Chilana on a career in taxation law and being Principal Associate at Amarchand

    Sandeep Chilana on a career in taxation law and being Principal Associate at Amarchand

    Sandeep Chilana graduated from Campus Law Centre, Delhi University in 2005. Thereafter, he practiced litigation at his hometown, in Rudrapur, and later joined AMSS in their tax team. He continues to work at AMSS, and with his expertise in tax law, he is presently a Principal Associate.

    We have invited him to share his experience and insights with us in building a career in tax law.

     

    How would you like to introduce yourself to our readers who are mainly law students and lawyers?

    Hi! to all the readers of SuperLawyer. I am Sandeep Chilana and I am currently working as a Principal Associate at Amarchand & Mangaldas. At Amarchand, I work with the Tax Team and specialize in indirect tax litigation and advisory services. It is pleasure to reach you all through this forum and share my thoughts and experiences.

    I was born and brought up in a small town in Uttaranchal, Rudrapur and I came to Delhi for my graduation in 1999. After graduating in commerce from Kirori Mal College, Delhi University in 2002, I went on to obtain my bachelor’s degree in Law from Campus law Centre, Delhi University in 2005.

    I started my career as a litigator in the chambers of Mr. Rajiv Bansal and worked with him for almost 2 years. Thereafter, I joined my father in Rudrapur who specialises in Income Tax & Sales Tax advisory and compliance services, more than a year. I joined Amarchand in 2008 and have been working in the tax team since then.

    I am passionate about my work and truly enjoy arguing before the courts and handling complex indirect tax issues. Devising an out of box solution or innovating structuring for clients within the realms of law gives me immense satisfaction.

     

    When and how did you decide to study law? Which universities did you consider for your legal studies? How did you settle for CLC, DU?

    [sociallocker] I would not say that law was a natural choice or I always wanted to be a lawyer. While in KMC, I was really interested in pursuing dramatic arts and theatre professionally. After graduation, I realised it was difficult to make a living out of theatre and wanted to have a Plan B to fall back on. Since my father is a practicing lawyer, law was a natural back up plan.

    At that time all my theatre rehearsals took place in Delhi. Therefore, I decided to settle for CLC Delhi University for pursuing law. It was during my days at law school that I developed a keen interest in the subject of law.

     

    Do you think being from a non-NLU has ever proved to be a hindrance for you? Many non-NLU students complain that they feel being discriminated against during career opportunities. What has been your experience?

    Not really. I strongly believe that our industry only respects technical expertise and everything else is secondary. It is possible that non-NLU students may feel discriminated at campus placement stage. However, from my experience, I want to tell them that in the long run what matters is their understanding of law, analytical abilities and professional integrity.

     

    Many lawyers say that the first year after graduation is the most difficult year for young lawyers. How was your first year after graduation? How did you learn the ropes and what were the biggest challenges you faced?

    First year after graduation is indeed most difficult year for us young lawyers. However, it is also the most important year of our profession. It is the year which decides whether we have the endurance to make a successful law professional.

    I started my career as a litigator in the chambers of Mr. Rajiv Bansal and worked with him for almost 2 years. That was undoubtedly the most defining period of my career.

    The first year was indeed difficult. I quickly realized that practicing law was very different from studying law. There was enormous work pressure and compensations were also nominal to keep us motivated. To top that, life in the courts was very unpredictable.

    Mr. Bansal reposed great confidence in me and unlike other 1st year associates I was getting lot of opportunities in the first year itself to independently appear before trial courts and handle miscellaneous hearing before High Court independently.

    My biggest challenge in the first year was time management and dealing with stage fright. Arguing before the courts was very different from moot courts and debate competitions in school and college and I needed to adjust quickly. Also, most of the new matters would come in evening with clients or circumstances insisting that the filings be made the very next day. Such short timelines required us to work through the nights to ensure filing the very next day and taught us the art of time management at a very early stage.

     

    You had started working at Bansal & Co. right after graduation, and thereafter you joined Chilana & Chilana Associates. How did you decide to shift from civil and commercial laws to tax laws? Please tell us about your work experience in both these places

    The work at Bansal & Co. was varied. In my short span of time spent there, I handled a variety of matters involving labour laws, family laws, intellectual property laws, land acquisition laws and tax laws etc.

    By end of 2006, I had decided to specialize in tax laws. There was no better place to learn the basics of tax laws than my father’s chambers in Rudrapur.

    Work at Chilana & Chilana Associates was highly focused and involved only tax work. My work at Chilana & Chilana Associates primarily involved preparing tax opinions on income tax and sales tax/VAT issues and drafting appeals or replies to notices.

    Working with my father taught me the importance of having an eye for detail in our profession. It was under him that I also understood the necessity of understanding the business of client. Whenever I got too technical, he reminded me that client needs a commercial solution and not a technical paper of legal provisions. I think this is the best advice a lawyer aspiring to specialize in tax laws can get.

     

    You left C&C to join AMSS in their indirect taxes wing. What motivated this shift? What does it take to get job at AMSS at that stage?

    When I left Mr. Bansal to join Chilana & Chilana Associates, I was hopeful that I would get opportunities to return to Delhi and work with main stream law firms or accounting firms, once I understood the basics of tax laws.

    AMSS happened by sheer chance as if it was destined. I was not aware that AMSS had recently started tax practice.  I was given an offer by one of the big four accounting firms to work in the indirect tax team. On the day I went to collect my offer letter, I bumped into an old college friend who had got a call from AMSS for an interview for a position in the tax team. She was very kind to forward my resume to AMSS HR and get me an interview as well, for the same position.

    Mr. Aseem Chawla, who was the tax partner at AMSS during the relevant time, interviewed me. The interview was primarily focused on work ethics, my litigation experience and the nature of tax assignments I have handled besides the obvious question, why I wanted to leave family practice.

    My father being a tax lawyer appeared to be the biggest challenge for me to crack that interview with AMSS. There was a presumption that sooner or later I would go back to join my father’s practice.

    However, Mr. Chawla identified with my point of view and the career path I had chalked out for myself. To my delight, I got a call from AMSS HR in the same week informing me about my selection. I was to join as a fresher associate in the Tax Team of AMSS.

    I guess my initial litigation experience coupled with my exposure to basics of tax laws worked in my favour. Also, my willingness to discount all my past experience to join as a fresher gave me an edge over the other candidates.

     

    Would you say your undergraduate B.Com degree has been helpful in your career? When did you actually experience the learning curve in tax law?

    Undoubtedly yes. It is almost impossible to specialise in tax laws without having the ability to decode financial statements and juggle with numbers. The B.Com degree gave me exposure to the accounting principles and made me affable to balance sheets and financials.

    I developed interest in tax laws while pursuing LL.B itself. I chose the optional paper of tax in my second year of law school and our professor Ms. Neeru Nakra ensured that everyone in the class enjoyed studying the seemingly boring tax laws. However, the actual learning curve in tax laws happened only after I joined Chilana & Chilana Associates.

     

    How do you say one can gain expertise in tax law? What does it take to be a good tax lawyer?

    The only way to gain experience in tax laws is to work with a tax lawyer or an accounting firm. We may not get an opportunity to work with a big firm directly but we must not lose hope. Hone your tax skills with independent practitioners or mid-level firms and wait for the right opportunity.

    Tax is a very dynamic subject. Hundreds of notifications and circulars are issued by the tax department every week. Tax laws get amended almost every year and the courts across India have different points of view on the same question of law. The only way one can be a good tax lawyer is by ensuring that you are constantly evolving and investing atleast 2 hours every week on knowledge management.

     

    Is the work significantly different from other transactional lawyers?

    Yes, practicing tax laws is very niche and significantly different from any other practice. Every litigation and advisory assignment is significantly different from the other. There are hardly any templates to start with. What differentiates a tax practice from regular transactional advisory work is that it never gets monotonous for a lawyer practicing tax laws.

     

    How much of your work does involve litigation, if at all?

    My work involves a good mix of litigation and advisory work. I have been appearing before various High Courts, Tribunals and Commissioners across the country on various indirect tax issues.

    Recently, I independently argued a very technical and high stake matter pertaining to taxability of domain name registration before the Customs, Excise & Service Tax Appellate Tribunal, Mumbai, and got a favourable order for client.

     

    Tell us a bit about work culture at AMSS tax team.

    Work culture at the AMSS Tax Team is highly competitive which induces a positive and productive environment. Most of the work handled by Tax Team at AMSS is very niche and high end, which continues to aspire and drive us towards professional excellence.

     

    People often complain about the highly skewed work-life balance at the top law firms. What is your workday like? How do you maintain your work-life balance?

    Being a lawyer is undoubtedly a high-stress career that demands far more than fair share of our time. Most of our assignments are urgent and require time bound delivery. Quite often than not, we end up spending more than 12 hours a day in our offices.  However, it is a conscious choice for most of us.

    One of the most important tools to manage work-life balance is time management, the ability to manage and keep a tab on the time and efficiencies, not only of your own but that of your team as well. I do try my best to regulate my time in the most efficient manner possible and spend quality time with my family. However, I must admit that my family understands the kind of pressures I work in and is really supportive of my professional commitments. Without their support, it would have been impossible for me to give my best to my profession.

     

    What would be your message to our young readers who want to pursue a career in tax laws?

    I would want to tell the young readers and budding lawyers that while their seniors would provide them sufficient exposure and training on the subject matter of their interest, the ultimate responsibility for their professional development rests on them only.

    It is not uncommon to feel disoriented in the first year of being a tax lawyer. Unlike other laws, tax laws are highly complex and require sound understanding of basic principles before you can start understanding and enjoying the complexity of the issues involved. Be patient till the time you are sure that you have mastered the basic principles.

    If time permits, a budding tax lawyer must consider attending training sessions and coaching classes organized by Institute of Chartered Accountants of India (ICAI) on tax laws for aspiring Chartered Accountants. These are really helpful in understanding the basic concepts of tax laws and make a great foundation for any tax professional.

    Once the basic understanding of tax laws is in place, it is important to remain focused and constantly invest time on self-development and knowledge management. It is also important to master the art of understanding the commercial reasons for any transaction to be able to provide a better solution to client.

    Besides legal expertise, it is important to develop the work ethics which are paramount for any professional to be successful, most importantly being, determination, patience and integrity.[/sociallocker]

  • Talha Salaria on founding ‘Lawyers at Work’, expertise in Corporate Law and building a career

    Talha Salaria on founding ‘Lawyers at Work’, expertise in Corporate Law and building a career

    Talha Salaria graduated from NLSIU, Bangalore. She has been a corporate lawyer for most of her career. She is the founder of Lawyers at Work.

    In this interview, we asked her about:

    • Her experiences as a founder of ‘Lawyers at Work’
    • Her experiences of practicing as a corporate lawyer.
    • Internship experiences and their importance in a student’s career

     

    When did you decide to take up law as a career?

    I didn’t choose law – I think law chose me. While I do have a few lawyers in my family, most of them went on to join the bureaucracy as IAS officers.

    I studied in Welham Girls High School, Dehradun. Since we were living together as boarders, we used to hear about various opportunities that are available for higher studies. I knew that I wanted to do a professional course and hence applied for the entrance exam of NLSIU, to have another option.

     

    You have been a corporate lawyer for most of your career. What prompted you to take up corporate law? Share with us some experiences which helped you to shape your career choices.

    When I started working I wanted to be financially independent. Unfortunately, litigation did not offer that opportunity since at that time (and maybe even now), it did not pay much, atleast initially. Moreover, I really enjoyed the atmosphere of corporate law firms. Most of my internships were with JSA where we were a small team, very focussed and yet we had a lot of fun. It was a great atmosphere and a very good platform for learning – I wanted to be a part of it.

     

    You started your career at J.Sagar Associates where you worked for six years. Thereafter, you co-founded MMB Legal. Were you always keen on having your own establishment?

    I was not keen on having my own establishment as such but over a period of time, I felt I had the risk appetite and the confidence to be able to do it. I do not necessarily make detailed long term plans but when I see an opportunity, I make sure that I respond to it immediately. The markets were good, the adrenalin was high – there was nothing stopping us!

     

    Almost five years after co-founding MMB Legal, you established your own law firm named “Lawyers at Work”. What prompted you to make this choice and what made this shift possible?Any specific reasons why you chose the name “Lawyers at Work”?

    I wanted to push myself to the limit – it is very challenging to set up on your own and it was a challenge that I wanted to explore.

    Choosing the name took a long time – I did not want to name the firm after myself – I was very clear about that. After much thought, we stumbled on a name that sounded good and exciting.

     

    Please tell us something about “Lawyers at Work”. What is a workday like?

    The key aspects that we focus on is learning and being a facilitator to the business of our clients rather than a cog in the wheels – therefore, we are very quality and timeline driven. At the same time, we like to ensure that everyone gets their weekend’s off and some personal time on a daily basis. There are very few rules – the idea is to take ownership of the work and also your conduct so that people come together as a team rather than based on hierarchies.

     

    What were the initial challenges you faced setting up “Lawyers at Work”? Having established a law firm earlier would you say it was easier for you the second time?

    It was definitely easier to set up the second time. Infact, MMB Legal was a great learning experience and a stepping stone for setting up L.A.W. The main challenge that we have faced right from the start is getting good people and attracting good talent. Our clients have been very supportive and we have not had any concerns regarding getting work, which is the typical concern for a start up.

     

    What is the most challenging or stressful part of being a founding partner of a law firm? Is it easy to have a work-life balance?

    The challenging part is to play so many different roles in a given day – administrator, rainmaker, mentor, lawyer – just to name a few. It keeps you on your toes. Given the fierecely competitive environment, especially in the Bangalore market, one needs to be constantly up to mark and creative in ensuring that you build yourself up brick by brick. I have a great work-life balance through it all – it is possible to have one with good time management and multi-tasking.

     

    Please share your experience starting up with a law firm for the benefit of law students and young lawyers who want to start up on their own.

    I would strongly urge young lawyers to focus on learning for the initial 10 years. The legal profession is a lot about experience and expertise which cannot be learnt in 1 or 2 years. Ideally, the young lawyers should litigate for atleast a couple of years and if they are in a corporate set up, they should focus on learning rather than aiming for the big figure salaries. Once the foundation is set, it is easy to set up and build on it later.

     

    The trend is now on gathering various internship experiences at different places. Was the scenario same while you were pursuing law? How is internship helpful for a law student?

    This trend was there even at our time. Internships are what you make of them. We have had interns who have come only for the sake of recording the internship on their resume and others, who, with the focussed work that they have done, have treated it as a rich learning experience. I remember when I was interning, I did my first due diligence and it was an eye opener for what was to come in future.

     

    Does your law firm take interns? If yes, then what is the application procedure? What do you look for in a prospective applicant?

    Yes, we take interns. The applicant can write to admin@lawyersatwork.in. We generally take one intern at a time to ensure that it is a fulfilling experience for the person.

     

    What would be your parting message to law students who want to be successful in corporate law?

    Hardwork, dedication and the right attitude will go a long way in being successful, and this applies to a career in corporate law as well.

     

  • Deepu Krishna on starting up with DK Studs, cracking CLAT and authoring a book

    Deepu Krishna on starting up with DK Studs, cracking CLAT and authoring a book

    deepu-krishnan-1Deepu Krishna graduated from NLIU, Bhopal in 2006. Currently, he is the Director of DK Studs, a law entrance preparation coaching. He set up this institution after working with a law firm. We asked him about:

    • Starting up with and building DK Studs
    • Advice to law students who could’t make it to top NLUs
    • Skills to crack CLAT
    • Authoring ‘Lexis-Nexis/DK STuDs CLAT’

     

    The career of a lawyer in India is still just a backup option for most students. What motivated you to choose law as a career? Did your family and friends not suggest you to go for Engineering or Medical Studies?

    As a child hailing from a middle-class family, I was often commended by my parents for my ability to come up with prompt and witty conversational replies and reactions. This was indicative, according to them, that it was the black and white that was the uniform most apt for me. When I was in the 10th standard, I made one of the most rebellious decisions of my life, by opting for Commerce even though I had obtained good marks in Maths & Science.

    I remember being called by my cousins, who are from the IT sector and live abroad, threatening to disown me if I took up commerce. My decision was perhaps considered this rebellious since I belong to a traditional South Indian family which believes that “Engee’nears” are the most gifted creations of god on earth. However, being the stubborn lad that I am, I opted for Commerce because I knew I wanted to do Law and prove each of my disbelievers wrong. I researched extensively and a cousin of mine from Bangalore helped me prepare for the National Law School entrance exams. I remember now that the one thing that motivated me to study was the fact that one day I would to be my own boss and work in an office where I set the work culture and not be just a part of the crowd. I dreamt of owning an SUV before I turned 26.

    I planned to relieve my Father from all burdens after his retirement, which included not taking any financial aid form him for my higher studies. I even vowed to marry the girl that I had liked right from my childhood. My Friends called me too mature for my age of 17, but I had to just that after I lost my brother in an accident and. I knew that being an average student, I could achieve my goals only by pursuing Law. Today, I am proud to say that I accomplished all of them. I appeared for NLSIU and NLIU, and I was successful in getting admission in both. However, I opted for NLIU as I had lost my Brother the previous year, and my Mum wanted me to stay back in Bhopal, rather than go to Bangalore – the city where my adventurous personality had resulted in me breaking my limbs. This was the one time that I finally listened to them, unlike in the past.

     

    Tell us about your life at NLIU-Bhopal?

    In the first class I attended at NLIU Bhopal, our then Director, the legendary Professor V.S. Rieki bellowed in the class, his words of advice : Law is for smart students and those who feel they can handle pressure, however remember that you have to live the life of a hermit and work like a Horse”. Within months after understanding the curriculum and the set conventions inside the law school, I did decide that Prof. Reiki was right, however I would also enjoy my life like a law student. I take pride in saying that I have been taught by one of the best faculties in the history of NLIU Bhopal. Prof. V.S. Reiki, Prof. Moolchand Sharma, Dr. Ghayur Alam, Prof. Surya Deva, Prof. Rajiv Khare. Prof. Uday Pratap Singh, Raj Shekhar Sir to name a few who have not only shaped me as a law student, but also been a law mentor. I am nothing but an amalgamation of all these legends.

    I have no shame in saying that I do copy their style of teaching and I suppose that makes me whatever my students call me. If I have to sum it up in one word, I’ll call it “Renaissance”. It was a completely new “Me”. I came from an all-boys school and was totally shy, lacking both confidence and public speaking skills. My world started with Bhopal and had Bangalore in its dreams. My reasoning was confined to the then MTV and Zee classic shows. The Constitution and the Rights I had known till then was confined to what my Civics classes had taught me. In just 6 months, my Dad observed that there was this “Class” in me. From peer to parents, everyone recognised that I had transformed into someone everyone could now look upto.

    A remarkable incident was when my friend, a commerce graduate, called me to train him for his IIM GD-PI interview mock drill and asked me to train him. He was a graduate back then, and I was still an undergraduate but he was of the belief that my interpersonal skills had graduated much above him, and that I could train him to be like “Me”. This was the one moment when I got a hint that training was an alternate career I could consider. As a student, I was average student who used to score average marks in subjects I disliked, like CPC and exceptional marks in subjects I loved, like Constitutional Law, IPR, etc. Another major positive I gathered from my law school life was the politics and backstabbing in Law School, since it made me ready for the life ahead. I used to lament on my decision to take up law, since I had good friends in school, and here everyone was mean and selfish. But once out of law school, I faced bigger betrayals, not once, but thrice in my career. Things got ugly to the point where a cartel published a malicious, defamatory and paid article in a yellow paper, to shake the monopoly I held. They did achieve their objective, but they couldn’t break my spirit. My students used to ask me, “Sir, how do you handle these things and still work with all your might?”I would reply, “In Law school they trained me for these things as well, and even if I do get affected, I know how to bounce back.”

     

    Law school can be monotonous at times. What did you do to keep yourself busy? What activities did you participate in and how did they shape up your career decision?

    Well, I don’t agree with the statement that it can be monotonous. It may be true for those who want to remain only with books and spend the majority of their time in the library. My law school life was completely different, as I said, thanks to my mentors who told me that studying law is beyond books, and is more practical. I did most of my projects using the empirical method, which was fun and educative. I remember going to a red light area for one of my projects and coming back crying on achieved through the legal system. I realised how women in our country, though worshipped and idolised, still struggle to achieve equality, be it inside a house or a Multi-million corporate office. As I was fascinated by Corporate law. I remember taking assignments on Transnational validity of laws on Bankruptcy, Insolvency, Formation etc. I made a few friends from Harvard Law School and Yale through a conference on the same.

    Today, when I hear the Law ministry contemplating on these issues I do feel proud to have learnt and researched on those issues, which truly shaped my thinking. I never felt bored throughout the five years. Yes, I must not lie: when my friends from other courses were graduating when I was in the third year, there was surely this unnerving feeling that my graduation was so far away. Yet, I kept myself busy with many extra-curricular activities to subdue this agony. I am currently pursuing my L.L.M from JLU, and many ask me the reason behind this long break. Well, after getting placed and starting my own venture, I just felt that I needed to learn more and update myself. Thankfully, right now, I am working under very good patrons like Prof. Dr. C. Gurudutt, Prof. Dr. Yogendra Shrivastava and Dr. Shobha Bharadwaj Madam who have been rejuvenating my thinking. After graduation, I missed my law school and had decided to invest one year to upgrade myself and even now, I am involved with researching, and I plan to be a part of some seminars. This is almost an addiction for me now.

     

    What kind of internships did you do while you were a student? Are there remarkable experiences during your internships that shaped your career choices later?

    Well, they were largely Corporate in nature, barring a few that I did as a first year student with a few NGOs. I loved researching and advising, and in one of my Internships, I remember a senior advocate telling me that my interpretation skills are good. You can either be a good Judge or a Teacher. I used to observe a lot of things as a student and study their societal impacts. I had written an article on the Jessica Lal murder case, and one day, as an intern, I happened to meet Mr. D.P. Yadav, since the advocate whom I was interning with was counselling him. I still remember the interactions between both of them, since I witnessed how Law can make the powerful kneel before it.

    If you ask me about the most remarkable internship I had, it has to be the Judicial clerkship I did with Justice B. N. Shrikrishna. Sir is a legend. He is a Sanskrit scholar and each evening after work I remember sitting with him and discussing Constitution of India , the principles of Law, comparing and analysing them in the light of Upanishads, Bhagwad Gita etc. He had written an article on Maxwell v Mimansa, and I still use it in my constitutional law classes to give students the insight on the spirit of law. I had a deep interest in Hindu religious philosophy and Sir, being the scholar that he is, enhanced my curiosity. He used to teach us how a point of law is deliberated, discussed and decided.

    He told us why study of law is a power, a power to determine what is right and wrong in the society. He is such a good human being, He was so compassionate. He knew that we were living away from our parents, so he used to make us have lunch and dinner with him so that we didn’t spoil our health through junk food. I learnt a lot from him. I suppose that the mentor that students adore in me is because of the skill of being compassionate, considerate and warm hearted to a student’s curiosity, which is something that I learnt from Srikrishna Sir.

     

    What are the skills you have learnt at internships and you could not have learnt otherwise? Do they still feel relevant to you?

    Well, Internships do teach you a lot. Outside the office: Firstly, if you are in a cosmopolitan city like Mumbai, you learn how to be street smart. If you are in a Metro like Delhi, you learn how to handle pressure and power from people possessing it. Inside the office: well it depends what on the kind of associate you are assigned. One of the primary lessons that I learnt was that, in a firm, there is a reporting time, but the time out depends a lot not just on your boss’s mood but also upon the nature of work you have been assigned proportionate to the deadline given to you. Internships tell you specifically that law is more than what the book reads. Internships are your gateway to a job placement if you do them correctly and with diligence.

     

    You worked with a law firm before starting DK Studs. What made you make the jump?

    Well, in short- The creator of Law entrance prep in India- Sachin Malhan. I remember him convincing me over a coffee why it was his belief that I was not just a good teacher but also had good managerial skills. He told me how what we do is not just teaching but changing lives and giving children an option to explore the growing field of study.

    I would be lying if I said that I didn’t enjoy corporate litigation. Justice Ruma Pal had once praised me openly in the court room for my eloquence and clarity. I remember giving a tea party at the Supreme Court canteen to celebrate the feat. But if you speak about job satisfaction, I did that feel teaching pulled me towards it more. The decision to jump came after a case I won for my firm. Quite contradictory, but yes, because by winning the case, I rendered a female aged 60 homeless. The same day CLAT results came and the All India rank 2 holder was my student. The joy these students shared won me over and I decided that I always wanted to be on the winning side and never wanted people losing.

     

    Why did you decide upon opening a law test prep coaching? What motivated you to start DK Studs? What is the story of your start-up?

    I always resist the notion of people calling me an entrepreneur- I would rather call myself an Acadprenuer {I have coined it myself}. You can’t be a business man if you are a teacher, a mentor. Business is not what you do with students. I would rather treat each of my student as a family. This trend of start-up has started in this pious field because more and more businessmen are venturing into it. They do treat it as business. I somehow can’t agree with that. Flipkart could be a start-up; Alma Mater could be a start-up.

    When Sachin Malhan started law entrance prep, business was secondary for him. He quit Amarchand Mangaldas and was not a jobless person or from a family which owned a fortune. He quit it and started this entire industry because he felt for it. I remember him telling me that he likes teaching and each class gives him a different high. He knew his skills and the call from inside. I belong to that school of thought. I don’t have sales target, even a sales team to assist me. I don’t maintain relationships with the media or press and you won’t even see any of my ads screaming things which I can’t prove. Coming back to why I started “teaching and mentoring students at DK-Studs”, when I left LST, I remember it was because I had to attend to my dad’s health and a competitor was placing me as a National head with more jump in all forms in my home town. It was again Mr. Malhan who said “I would love to see you as a competitor rather than join one, you are like a brother, and joining the competitors goes against ethics and what I have taught you.”

    When I came down to Bhopal, a school friend of mine proposed that we both start a partnership. With the confidence I had, we opened up a venture and in a single year managed to give Madhya Pradesh its first NLSIU selection and a ratio of 89% selection. We even made Hindi medium students successful in CLAT. The high it gave me cannot be explained. Today, I am associated with CLAT possible for our CLAT training, and DK STuDs is basically now a major educational services unit which caters to different needs of law graduates.

    I am starting a programme “Lex Academia” specifically for those students who don’t get through CLAT; I feel they are similarly talented and just could not do justice to those 2 hours. This is my way of contributing to those who couldn’t clear CLAT directly or indirectly. I do hold myself responsible if they don’t, and this way, I can help them in becoming what they once dreamt of becoming-a good legal professional, even if not from a National Law School. If they decide to follow law as a career option, we have planned a course which shall train them in all the skills which make them a perfect law student, i.e. we shall train them on those skills which are required to survive in the profession. We shall also help them in placements and internships.

    I have a dedicated team who are graduates from Harvard, London School of Economics, Cambridge, University Of Edinburgh etc., helping me out in this programme. I have started a small mediation cell called “Proxy-Path”, which is basically a venture by me, along with my students who have passed out of Law schools-some of them who are in fact still pursuing their graduation, but keep doing the clerical work. And, believe me, I am not doing this as a start-up. These are all dreams and we are just making them real. A dream I once saw sitting at the last bench of my classroom in NLIU – of leading similar minded people.

     

    With so much of competition existing in the coaching and teaching field, what makes DK Studs different from its peers?

    From my viewpoint I don’t have competition because I belong to the genre which created this market. As one of my student put it – you are the market, they devise separate plans of marketing against you and that itself is evidence of your stature. Today we are in a position at DK-STuDs that we select our students -you can’t get into this academy just because you want to. We don’t fill in large chunks of no-hopes who are doing Law just because their friend is doing it, or they love the parties in law school. We have an interview system, a Psycho metric test and a two week trial class and the student has to undergo our trials and only then we allow admission to them. This command we have is because we have already undergone the stage they are in, and currently we are in a position where we can afford to be this choosy. I told you that we don’t have a marketing personnel or department. There are no calls made by us or schemes that we come out with, like they do in a business enterprise. We don’t give discounts, (the term surprises me because one cannot give a discount on education!) we have scholarships which we give to academically proficient students and students who are from weaker financial backgrounds.

    The scholarship is named after my late brother and so it is close to my heart. We are costly not because we want to be, but because I pay my faculties well and keep them content. There are institutes who are taking in large chunks of students and charging not even 50% of what we charge, and students do understand the difference when it comes to national ranking of CLAT possible in every mock test. Faculties with more than 9 years of experience with pan India fame teach them. Now the reason why DK-STuDs is different from its peers could be an unlimited number of things that I can boast about. However, I would just want you to deduce it from the fact that, when we started this firm, it was not as a business but as a craze, and a dream, something you will feeling every student and alumni of DK STuDs. Even the students that I have taught through my Youtube video are close to me.

    Our Alumni is the strongest in any National law School and the camaraderie they share can even be seen there. Today, my students call all Bhopal is irrespective of any coaching, a Dk-Stud by default, which is in itself the evidence of how we are placed. As I was giving you this interview, I just received this information that an Alumni of DK-STuDs has been chosen as Miss India-New Zealand. We are everywhere and all we do is appreciate what good others do, get shocked on their mistakes and boasts and just smile on the way they compete with each other. I feel it’s not about being different. It’s just about delivering what you promise and we do that each year. On a personal level too, I am the happiest amongst my competitors. I have a family, and I give time to them.

    I have a loving wife who helps me with my academy. When I return home, I have a 2 ½ year old son who welcomes me with selfless love. I am pursuing my Post Graduation with my own earned money. I do not belong to a business family and did not have a financial backing, but still made an academy out of my own hardwork, without anyone’s help. I never followed a trend, rather created trends in the market, which others follow, like we launched CLAT & Commerce under the same roof and people are trying to ape it already. I do everything I once dreamt of as a child, like owning portable gaming device, etc. Well, happiness and peace of the heart have been my biggest earning.

     

    deepu-krishnan-3

    What are your plans regarding DK Studs for the upcoming years? What are the top three things you would require to keep the growth sustained?

    As I have already told you, the name of DK-STuDs itself means “My Students and I”. There are plans which I have with my students when they graduate, and the ones who have graduated are already working on that area. We have collaboration with CLAT possible and that is now really working well with the pan India connect we have. I contribute to their growth with my goodwill and they do appreciate it. Together we have become very strong. The other two projects I have on my mind right now are on task list. Again – I am starting a new field, so I am so pepped up about it. It is me helping the students who saw failure in CLAT realise that irrespective of any law school you are in, you can work magic with acquiring these skills that we shall teach. In Proxy Path we handled 3 cases and managed to get 2 of them reconciled. By the age of 40, I plan to enter freelance teaching, giving these projects to the able students I have. I already have offers from University of Wellington; they made the offer after watching my YouTube videos. I would want to teach Jurisprudence and subject of law at University levels on a freelance basis. I am designing few lectures for the same and my research, too, is on the same field. I have a deep interest in philosophy and would want to come out with my own theories in Political science and Global Justice. As I said, when I chose teaching, it was not that I did not have anything to do. I knew what I was doing. I had already planned my dream ahead.

     

    Do you think CLAT scores are truly indicative of a student’s potential? What kind of aptitude do you think is necessary to crack CLAT?

    No. Some of my real good students have not managed to crack it and some of my very average students have got through the best. I feel it isthose2 hours and the temperament you keep that counts at the end of the day. I read a lot of metaphysics and think that if you train yourself in the manner required to give you your best in those two hours, it is one of the easiest exams. But then, it is very difficult to be that sharp, and sometimes you just realise that in one go. Inside the campus, I have met students who don’t understand how they got in and don’t know how to survive. They just performed better in those two hours and got through, that’s the reality. My Endeavour with my new course “Lex Academia” is banking upon this feature, as I already told you. To me, any student who wants to create a strong career is more important than the horde which opts for it just as an option or backup

     

    For GK and Legal Reasoning sections, how important is it to read the newspaper regularly? What sections should one focus on?

    General knowledge requires interest, you cannot just cram and go. They ask you questions which are basic in nature yet they have some questions which require you to have a good deep knowledge. Cramming up current affairs won’t help, or even merely reading the newspaper or appearing in some quiz. If you are reading the news, you should have the ability to research and critically analyse it. You can do this only when you know the history, the backdrop from the viewpoint of science in some respects. Your geography has to be good to understand world polity. All in all, as I said, it’s about interest. If you don’t have interest, generate it through discussions and writing essays on the same. Debate on the issues concerning world polity and do not just read from the newspaper, read it in a very diverse manner. I recommend my studs to read “India after Gandhi”, and then read history. We discuss the Spartacus struggle against Rome and then how Rome is still alive and we link it to the Israel –Palestine issue. There is a lot we learn, and not just cram.

    Legal Aptitude requires just a strong sense of power of application of logic, given to you in the form of principle. An ability to stick to the question at hand, and not getting deviated and answering it in the spirit of the question asked.

     

    Students who top CLAT often claim that they never studied a lot; however many students who have, miss out on a good rank. Do you believe CLAT is all about innate skills, then? Or that a particular approach should be applied to clearing it? If yes, what should it be?

    I already answered that it’s about those two hours and how you handle pressure. Students who read more than 8 hours tend to disturb their own inner peace- they have conflicts going on inside them and that takes a toll on them. Aspirited student is smart and he/she knows how to manage time, and not drain his/her energy in a futile manner. As I said- “Meta-physics”, you see. I don’t allow my students to sleep between 3-5pm (the timing of the CLAT exam) because I feel that they should be at their intellectual best during this time. It does work for the majority of time.

     

    deepu-krishnan-2

    Have you had students who were brilliant but still couldn’t make it to a National Law University? If yes, what is your message to those students?

    I did have. My only suggestion: Law is a profession. If you acquire good skills, you shall always succeed, no matter which law school you belong to. Coming from a National Law School, you do get an easy start but if you are good with your legal knowledge and your skills are apt, you won’t ever be let down by this profession.

     

    CLAT 2015 is probably going to be online; how do you think students should get themselves prepared for an online exam?

    It maybe a farce. I don’t think it’s possible for it to go online. They weren’t even able to enforce a proper online registration, now if the exam is done online, it’s going to be a much bigger issue. Undergraduate examinations, especially exams like CLAT, are better managed offline. However, even if it is online, we are well equipped, at CLAT possible, to handle it. So that won’t be an issue, with students accustomed to online testing.

     

    Do you provide any work opportunities for law students? Do you recruit undergraduate law students as part time faculty?

    Undergraduates in my academy only teach students how to crack CLAT and how to attempt questions like they did. They don’t take full length classes. These sessions help students interact with those who have been there, done that. Work opportunities for law students and graduates – yes, as I said, I have already recruited some of my graduated students and with time, we shall have an army of them. And that’s an additional advantage of being a DK stud -I trust them blindly.

     

    You came out with a standout compilation of study materials for students, which was one of the most sold books last year. How did you conceive the idea of the book?

    Yes, the book is called Lexis-Nexis/DKSTUDs CLAT study kit. The idea was conceived back in 2006. I was unable to find anyone who could understand what I had visualised. Lexis Nexis, with its young management team they, realised what I was hinting at. We wanted to tap into the unexplored area and give students something to learn from even while at home, without having to join any coaching institution. The book is different in many different ways, one of them being the “FAQ section”, where the student can actually obtain answers to questions he/she usually has problems with, related to some subjects. In the Maths module, we have answered questions like “When should I attempt Maths?” amongst others. This year we are releasing the 2nd edition and once again, there will be surprise for the students once they buy the pack. For confidential reasons, I can’t comment on the same, however the new addition is very productive for students of CLAT.

     

    What does it take to be an entrepreneur? What are the three great skills of an entrepreneur according to you?

    I already told you I am not an entrepreneur. I am an academician who knows how to create core value systems, mentor students and work out an academy with these values. I am alien to terms like Baniya, Gujju, Sindhi style, etc., which people usually use to define business in India. For me it has to a lot do with the mantra that if you love something – work for it, and achieve it. I read a lot of Richard Branson and Robin Sharma, and have learnt a lot from them. I cannot enumerate any three – I just feel that anyone in my profession should follow some simple things like, maintain ethics, and be a slave to them. Set principles and standards, and always stand by them. In this profession students tend to become like you. They follow you. You are effecting change, so it means a lot. Become a visionary to them, rather than making them business-minded. Give back something to the society in any form that you can, in a pro bono manner.

     

    Lastly, what would be your message to law students and young lawyers who want to pursue alternative legal careers or entrepreneurship?

    Law is an endless field. Once you take up law, you shall always remain a student. So if you seriously have this urge to learn things and always remain updated, you have chosen the right profession. If you think that it’s just a way to earn money and live your life easily, that is not true. Your real life will start post law school. Law school shall make you ready for it, but only if you are willing to learn. For alternate careers, Law shall surely increase your capacity to think, comprehend and create. It shall stimulate your communication skills and shall surely make a better manager out of you {managing grades, moots, project submission, series completion, etc. is tough, so you need to manage them}. Venture into anything only if you feel like doing it. You shall always succeed. Don’t do it because someone else is doing and he has found success in it. We all have our core specialities – it could be teaching, it could be music, it could be just about anything. Pursue it, and you shall always succeed.

  • Kapil Duggal on declining AMSS PPO for an Indian LL.M, driving NLIU MCC to zenith and being a batch topper

    Kapil Duggal on declining AMSS PPO for an Indian LL.M, driving NLIU MCC to zenith and being a batch topper

    Kapil Duggal is the topper of NLIU Batch of 2014 (set to receive the Gold Medal on 15 November), who bagged a PPO at Amarchand & Mangaldas & Suresh A. Shroff & Company, an accomplished mooter, a successful Convenor of Moot Court Association (Took NLIU from #23 to #1 on the MPL and retained the numero uno position for 4 months), a debater and sportsman among others.

    In this interview, he talks about:

    • His experience in taking NLIU from Rank 23 to Rank 1 in MPL
    • Choosing Masters at NLIU over PPO from AMSS
    • Few tips on framing C.V.

     

    How would you like to introduce yourself to our readers? What motivated you to choose law as a career?

    I am a 2014 batch graduate from National Law Institute University, Bhopal. I would like to take this interview as an opportunity to share my views and insights on life in a law school and career decisions that a law student has to take.

    Law was not my first choice. I was pursuing engineering when at the end of the first Semester, I realized that I was not cut out to be an engineer. A couple of friends suggested me that I should look at law as a career option. I browsed through their preparation material for CLAT, it caught my eye, and a few months later, I ended up at NLIU, Bhopal.

     

    You’ve done your graduation from NLIU and currently pursuing Masters there. How would you describe your experience?

    Well my experience has been nothing short of fantastic! I’ve got the opportunity to explore many dimensions of my personality. For instance, I had never participated in any public speaking event/competition when I was in school. And one year into law school, I was representing my University at the United Asians Debating Championship in Bangkok, followed by another National Debating Championship at NLU, Delhi.

    National Law Universities provide you with plethora of opportunities in every field. I led the University basketball team at various National Sports Fests like Spiritus, Virudhaka, Yuvardha and Sportomania.

    I also organized the first round table conference on Need for Legal Regulation of Coaching Institutions, wherein after debating and discussing the nitty-gritty of the subject with all the stakeholders, we drafted a paper and forwarded the recommendations to Ministry of Consumer Affairs, Food & Public Distribution, Government of India.

    NLIU also gave me the opportunity to interact with many legal luminaries and have discussions with them over a vast range of subjects. I will never forget my discussion with (Retd.) Justice VS Sirpurkar regarding the challenges faced by the judiciary and the criminal justice system, when he visited our campus for delivering a Guest Lecture and was kind enough to spare some time from his schedule to interact with the students. I also organized a guest lecture by Senior Advocate Ms. Geeta Luthra on Trial by Media, which is cherished by students of NLIU till date.

    So it has been an incredible experience at NLIU, which was one of the reasons I opted to pursue the Master’s degree at the same institution.

     

    You have been among the top rankers during your college days. What are the tips and strategies you would like to share with our readers who are currently law students?

    Sincerity and dedication are one of the most essential factors to be considered. One need not entirely focus on reading the course material. It might even be tedious at times. A rather interesting approach, which worked well for me, is to read latest judgments on the subject. Actual cases in a courtroom are not quite simple and straightforward, and involve interplay of multiple provisions and in many cases, of multiple statutes. And a Supreme Court judgment would usually trace the first case which dealt with the subject and eventually come to the contemporary interpretation before finally arriving at a conclusion. So by reading one judgment, a law student can understand multiple provisions while getting acquainted with landmark cases.

     

    kapil-duggal-1

    You were the Convenor of the Moot Court Association at NLIU and during your tenure, NLIU gave its one of the best ever performance in mooting circles. How did you achieve such a feat and what skills do you get to hone while managing such a responsibility?

    NLIU had ended up at #23 on the MPL in 2013 and that’s when I assumed the office of Convenor, MCA. I straightaway took up the challenge of taking NLIU to the zenith. I reviewed the existing policies, inspired the mooters to put it in their 100%, and created a moot pool specially for our First Years students, so that we could groom them and send them for national competitions in their freshman year itself. Our alumni were very supportive and gave us their valuable inputs whenever necessary. Consequently, we were able to achieve #1 on the MPL and retain that position for 4 months i.e. for about one-third of my tenure. Even our mooters from the First Year brought home 4 awards in the moots they participated in.

     

    You have also judged the 5th NLIU-Juris Corp Moot this year. What is your advice to budding mooters? What factors do you think contributed to your success?

    The first step to success in a moot court is doing good research. And once you are standing before a judge, you should be in a position to argue your case without even glancing at your memorial. You ought to know the facts and the law on your fingertips.

    Having argued before a total of 10 Supreme Court and High Court judges in different moot courts, I’ve experienced that the situation in final round(s) of a moot court is generally a bit different from all other rounds because sitting/retired SC/HC judges would be on the bench, and they generally don’t appreciate inferences drawn from the factsheet, for want of evidence. So you must modify your strategy and strictly argue on points of law.

     

    How helpful do you think is mooting for a law student? Does it serve to build any practical skill?

    Absolutely. First of all, mooting helps improve your researching skills, which prove to be a great asset during one’s internships. Secondly, since you have to argue on behalf of both the petitioner/appellant and the respondent, you get to train yourself in applying the same law to opposite situations and thereby get to learn interpretation of statutes, which is one skill you hardly get to develop in academics. Thirdly, you get to keep yourself updated of legal aspects of contemporary issues as mostly, moot problems are drafted on contemporary issues.

     

    What would you say differentiates between the best speakers and the rest? What are the top three things you consider sine qua non for being a great speaker?

    Knowing the law- both for and against a proposition, ability to put your best points forward effectively in the given time frame and, and ability to take the bench with you on every point are the things that differentiate a good mooter from other participants. Equally important is knowing when to concede a point and taking the decision of moving to the next argument. This comes only by experience.

     

    You secured a PPO from AMSS during fourth year of your graduation. Still, you wrote CLAT and joined NLIU for Masters. What prompted you to leave a lucrative career opportunity and pursue LL.M from an Indian University? Was it a part of your long term plan?

    Interning with AMSS was a great experience, it’s a terrific place to work. I liked the work there, and would have loved to join AMSS. Senior Advocate Ms. Geeta Luthra had a profound effect on my decision-making. She along with Professor (Dr.) S.S. Singh and Prof. (Dr.) Kumar Kartikeya guided me to the nuances of a career in litigation and inspired me to take it up. I intend to practice in the field of Constitutional and Administrative Law (after completing my LL.M degree). It made more sense to me to undertake an in-depth study and analysis of laws that I would be dealing with on a day-to-day basis, as against pursuing LLM from a foreign university, where I wouldn’t have got an opportunity to do so. NLIU, Bhopal being one of the top universities in the country and the only top institution offering a course on Constitutional & Administrative Law, made my decision easier.

     

    What kind of work did you come across during your internship at AMSS? What are the things you consider sine qua non for positive feedback from an internship?

    I worked with Project Finance and Litigation teams of AMSS, Mumbai. The nature of work included drafting, preparing research notes including for some very interesting topics like law regarding spot-fixing in cricket, etc.

    Sticking to deadlines, formidable research work, making sure that your work is updated with latest case laws are sine qua non for a positive feedback. You must be thorough in the work you are submitting for you can be called at any time and asked to give details regarding the cases you have cited, if the associate finds them of great use.

     

    Did you have to undergo an interview before securing your PPO? Any tips on how one should go about framing a C.V. and prepare for an interview?

    While drafting your C.V., you must precisely state the topics which you have worked upon during your internships. You must also keep yourself updated of any new developments regarding them. Customize your CV according to the firm/company/lawyer you are applying for, and stress on those parts of your work experience which hold value for them. If your CV is heavily loaded with co-curricular activities, you can cut down on the section of extra-curricular activities in your CV.

    I was interviewed by AMSS as well as by Khaitan & Co. for a PPO. I received an offer from AMSS first and hence I requested Khaitan & Co. to allow me to opt out from the PPO process and they were kind enough to oblige. You must read up on the topics that you have worked on during your internship, including the latest developments. Having knowledge of the market situation and practical aspects is definitely a plus point. You should not miss out on reading up even a single topic which you have mentioned in your CV. You should also be able to readily answer any question regarding the field of law you would like to specialize in, which should be supported by your CV (you should have written papers/articles or participated in moot courts/conference relating to that field of law). These would significantly help you in preparing for an interview.

     

    Lastly, what would be your message for our readers?

    You must make the most out of your vacations. Intern with a lawyer/firm whenever you get an opportunity to do so, for you will learn the practical aspects of what you read in law school, which will give you an edge over others. Also, manage your time wisely and do take out time for your hobbies/sports, so that you enjoy your time while in law school.

  • Jayantika Ganguly on being a corporate lawyer at AMSS, and Khaitan & Co.

    Jayantika Ganguly on being a corporate lawyer at AMSS, and Khaitan & Co.

    Jayantika Ganguly graduated from WB National University of Juridical Sciences, Kolkata, back in 2008. She has thereafter worked at Amarchand & Mangaldas & Suresh A Shroff & Co (“AMSS”) for more than three years, and is currently working as a Senior Associate at Khaitan & Co. (“KCo”).

    We asked her to share her journey from being a law student to being a corporate lawyer.

     

    Given that most of our readers are law students and young lawyers, how will you introduce yourself to them?

    “Hello, Lawdroids! Greetings from a sample of Lawdroid Ice-cream Sandwich!”

    <Disclaimer: I do not own the terms “Lawdroids” or “Ice-cream Sandwich” and these are merely being used for representative purposes.>

     

    Back in 2003, NUJS was a fairly new institute. What motivated you to choose law as a career?

    It might sound a tad fickle, but law was simply the most interesting option for me at that stage. Law was exciting and a heady blend of the secure and intrepid – which just felt right.Perhaps a side-effect of growing up on detective stories!

    NUJS was fairly new back then (we were the fourth batch) – but we had the legendary Dr Madhava Menon as the Vice Chancellor! The rank #3 in the entrance exam helped, too.

     

    In retrospect how would you compare NUJS with other premier law institutions of the country?

    NUJS is undoubtedly one of the best. As an alumnus, my hindsight might be a little more rose-tinted than reality – but NUJS did a great job of not only training us in law, but also preparing us for our professional lives. The courses, internships, projects, moots, extra-curricular activities – it was all great. I think NUJS might have one of the most active student populations amongst the law schools. It certainly gave us a twinkle in our eye and a swagger in our stride.

     

    How did your recruitment at AMSS take place? How do you recall your anticipation of the job offer?

    Campus recruitment – our Placement Committee did a spectacular job. The procedure was fairly standard – CVs were sent, shortlisted students were called in for a Group Discussion, and further selected students were called in for individual interviews. I remember frantically reading the Companies Act before the scheduled date – but in the end, it wasn’t required. We were tested for our aptitude, oratory and analytical skills.

     

    Many lawyers would say that the actual learning takes place in the years of practice. How far would you say it is true? What was the case in your situation?

    I would take that statement with a grain of salt – but then, this is my personal opinion. I feel the internships and the way they are structured in law schools are very advantageous and we are not caught unawares upon joining a firm/company. You study a subject, and then you get to apply your knowledge during your summer internship. I certainly learnt a lot this way. Obviously we do not learn everything in college and during internships – but we definitely gain a general idea of how things function, and that is what ultimately influences the decision on where to work.

     

    You worked at AMSS for more than three years before joining KCo. Being the largest law firm in India, how did it shape up your work profile?

    At AMSS, I worked in the Project Finance team. Headline-grabbing deals and late nights were the norm. It was a fantastic learning experience – fast and glamorous.

     

    After having worked at AMSS for more than 3 years how did the shift to KCo take place?

    The move to Kolkata, for family reasons, was the operative factor. By a happy coincidence, KCo Kolkata was looking to recruit and I got lucky!

     

    What does your current work profile at KCo consist of? How is a typical workday like?

    At KCo, I am a part of the Corporate Team, so I get to work on a wider range of transactions here. A typical work day would have a few phone calls, a meeting or two thrown in, some discussion sessions and a lot of emails, document review and drafting.
    jayantika-ganguly-2

    It’s been six years of your work experience in corporate law. What would you say contributes to the high attrition rate of the top law firms?

    There are a fair number of reasons. A lot of lawyers wish to work for a few years before going in for their Masters degree. Some move either out of a desire for change or for personal reasons. In my opinion, though, the biggest culprits behind high attrition rates are burnouts and breakdowns. The frantic pace and glory of big deals feels amazing at the beginning – but gradually, it gets exhausting. Health problems start cropping up – and that is when most people leave. Some are able to adapt, some are able to change their lifestyle and continue. This is more common with first jobs, I think, because as students, we are unable to accurately gauge what we are getting into – we are too star-struck. Also, the elation of the first all-nighter, the euphoria of a successful closing, the excitement of seeing your deal in a newspaper, the feeling of being ‘important’ – these are all quite addictive, so, more often than not, we tend to ignore our health concerns until something goes seriously wrong.

     

    In these six years you must have guided a lot of interns at AMSS and KCo. What do you think differentiates a good intern from the rest?  How can an intern make a positive impression in the limited time they have?

    The best interns I have seen are prompt and meticulous. The characteristics of a good intern are pretty much the same as the characteristics of a good associate. Take your deadlines seriously. If you don’t have the bandwidth to take on additional assignments, say it upfront and request an extended deadline if possible – if not, check with the senior for priorities. Listen to instructions carefully – ask questions if you do not understand. Be meticulous. No one will penalise an intern for not knowing an obscure detail of law – but silly mistakes, shoddy submissions are not good. Do your research well and be prepared to answer questions on the assignment you have been given.

     

    Life for lawfirmites can be very hectic at times. What is your take on work-life balance? How do you unwind?

    Work-life balance is very important to me. I think it is a somewhat misunderstood concept. Work-life balance does not mean that you leave your time-sensitive transaction hanging and wander off because your work-hours are over – that is simple irresponsibility. What it means is that you do your work to the best of your ability, but you also keep some time to yourself, indulge in something you are passionate about, and you also keep an eye on your wellbeing. It is about finding a passion beyond your work and making time for it. It will have a positive effect on your work efficiency as well, as you will be more organised and work down the priority list.

    There are plenty of unwinding activities I indulge in. I love travelling – be it for work or leisure – and I try to travel as much as I can. I also fancy (or, perhaps, delude) myself to be a bit of a writer. I like to explore new cuisines and new languages. I am an avid Sherlockian as well – and a fan of music, art, dance and drama.

     

    Many young law students want to have a flourishing career in corporate law. What would be your advice to the future corporate lawyers?

    Other than thoroughly studying the corporate laws, keep abreast of the market news. Being up-to-date on information as well as laws is important. Try and intern with companies as well as law firms – this will give you a well-rounded idea about how things work on both sides. Hone your drafting and negotiation skills – this will form a major chunk of your work hours.

  • Apeksha Mehta on trimester system at NLIU, tips on C.V. and work at LKS

    Apeksha Mehta on trimester system at NLIU, tips on C.V. and work at LKS

    apeksha-mehta-2Apeksha Mehta is a graduate from National Law Institute University, Bhopal (Batch of 2014). She has participated in various co-curricular activities and has multiple publications to her name. Her diligence paid off when she received a job offer from Lakshmikumaran & Sridharan (LKS) in her 5th year of law school. Currently, she is working as an Associate there. We asked her to share her experiences and strategies she used over the years.

    In this interview, Apeksha talks about:

    • Trimester system at NLIU
    • Importance of co-curricular activities
    • Few tips on framing CV
    • Securing a job at LKS

     

    Tell us about your pre-college life as well as educational background. Why did you decide to study law?

    I belong to Ratlam in Madhya Pradesh and I completed my schooling from the same place. I have always been an average student. However, I think I managed fairly well, despite my sluggish attitude towards studies. I am a first generation lawyer in my family. My interest in law developed gradually when I started exploring the options I  had after 12th standard. I researched about law schools, the subjects, design of the five year law course and the opportunities it bestows thereafter and found it akin to my liking.

     

    First year of law school usually determines a lot about how the rest of the four years will be. It can also be very challenging. What was your experience?

    I will not prefer to call it challenging. Law school or for that matter any professional degree course is a start of a new phase in a student’s life. It is different, it amuses you and you are more than ready to go with the flow. First year of law school actually determines very little about the coming four years. But, it anyways builds your foundation. It teaches you how to go about the rest of the college life. Every year is a new experience in itself. I scored decently in the first trimester which developed a sense of fear regarding the coming trimesters as to keeping the score constant since every trimester introduced heavier subjects than the last trimester.  But the first year of law school I think is the best amongst all the years as there is comparatively less pressure and far less competition.

     

    One can find it difficult to manage continuous evaluation through trimester exams, projects, submissions, etc. in a law school. How did you manage your studies?

    Many people from other colleges think that a trimester system is difficult to manage. However, if you get into the routine of studying in a trimester system, it isn’t very difficult at the end of the day. It might get exhausting at some point of time, but it doesn’t entirely tire you out. All you need to have is interest in what you are pursuing and the rest follows.

     

    How much time does it take to manage academics properly in a law school like NLIU, especially in light of the trimester system?

    According to me, it should take you two trimesters at the most. Everything is new for a student in the first trimester. But, by the end of the first trimester itself, you start understanding how much more you need to put in to score good, or how frequently you need to participate in the co-curricular or extra-curricular activities. Of course, such realisation strikes only if you make the effort of planning out your schedule for the coming trimester.

     

    How would you describe your time at NLIU-Bhopal? What are the co-curricular activities you took part at NLIU?

    NLIU brought about a lot changes in how I perceived things before joining college. I got a lot more disciplined towards my studies. As a law student, I became more aware and more responsive towards my surroundings. National Law Schools offer ample of opportunities to explore one’s area of interest within law. I was more inclined towards paper publications and presentations. I have presented a paper entitled ‘Fairness Opinion of Independent Directors in Takeovers’ at a conference on independent directors at NLU, Jodhpur. I have also written an article entitled ‘Dumping: It’s Fair Unless it’s all Politics’ published in the A38 Journal of International Law.

     

    Which internships that you have pursued will you consider to be right at the top and why? Tell us about some interesting internship experiences.

    My internship experience at Nishith Desai Associates is what I would describe as the best. The variety of work and the work culture that I got to experience there was amazing. Besides Nishith Desai Associates, Jyoti Sagar Associates and Link Legal were also very good learning experiences. The appreciation for good work that you get as an intern boosts your morale. Internships also polish your research skills. While interning at Link Legal, I was asked to research on execution of a high court order in case of a merger. The client did not want to go ahead with the merger despite the order being passed by the court. I researched and found some noteworthy cases which helped save the client thus putting me in the good books of the partner and also helped me secure a call back.

     

    What are the skills you learned from internships? How did you ensure that you get noticed during internships for the work you do?

    Apart from a drastic improvement in your research skills, internships bring you a lot closer to how law works in real life. You apply the law to real life facts and hence, it helps you to learn to read between the lines and deduce the point of law which the client may have missed or may have misinterpreted. It also teaches you that sometimes there is no solution to the client’s problem and brings you out of the fantasy world of Mike Ross and Harvey Spector who always manage to find a solution for the client. Internships teach you a lot about the benefits of socialising, networking and also how do you deal with the expectations of a client. The best part about interning is that it keeps you posted regarding the industry.

     

    What brought you towards Tax Law?

    When my fifth year started and the time for placements was near, I decided I will not narrow down my choices to some particular areas of law. I knew I want to start my career with a law firm job and that was my sole aim. I had a previous internship experience with LKS and so I had an idea of the kind of work they do. Nothing about tax was new to me as such and hence, I did not mind giving myself a chance to work in this area.

     

    You secured a job at Lakshmikumaran & Sridharan (LKS) in your 5th year of law school. How did you go about achieving this?

    If you know what the recruiter expects from the person sitting in front of them, it gets a little easier to crack the interview. At the time LKS came to our campus, they had a 5 day lecture series scheduled, which gave us a fair idea about the working of the firm, work culture, the areas of law they deal in and what do they expect from freshers who join them. I also had the advantage of an internship experience at LKS, so I think I was in a better position as compared to others to decipher the expectations of the recruiter.

    LKS basically doesn’t expect you to know the tax law at length. What they expect is that you know the basic law and you have enough sincerity to join the firm. I studied the basics of indirect and direct taxation apart from whatever else was there on my CV.

     

    How many times did you intern at LKS before you bagged the job offer? Please tell us about the recruitment application process at LKS?

    I interned at LKS once at the end of my third year. I got recruited through the campus recruitment program in our college. The campus recruitment program at LKS involves shortlisting of CV’s of candidates who are desirous to sit for the interview. Thereafter, an interview is conducted with each of the shortlisted candidates.

     

    What kind of questions were you asked during the interview with LKS?

    They started off with making me comfortable by asking me about my city and family. Eventually, they started asking questions from the LKS internship and other internships. The majority of questions related to indirect taxation (sales tax, service tax and excise law) from my LKS internship, SEZ/EOU related questions, a few IPR related questions and FDI related questions from my other internships. They also asked me questions related to the certificate courses I pursued in Maritime Law and Legal and Financial Services.

     

    How do you think one should go about writing a CV when one is applying for a job?

    One should definitely very clearly mention the work done during the internships. Recruiters pay a lot more attention on the variety of work that the candidate has undertaken. A diversified CV is an interesting CV. Internship is not a time for you to select one area of law or practice and continue interning in the same. The idea is to explore and keep exploring until you find what interests you. Also, from my personal experience, if you are keen on getting through a law firm at the starting of your career, you should start interning in law firms right after your second year. Getting a job also depends a lot on the grades that you score. You need not be the topper of your batch, but a decent grade might also sometimes help you land a job interview.

     

    Many law school students struggle to secure a job. What do you think they are doing wrong, from your observations?

    A majority of students look at big law firm jobs as a matter of social eminence. This is a wrong approach and a totally inappropriate attitude for a person who is just starting his/her career. If it is difficult for you to determine your area of interest right at the start, have patience and slowly move towards something which allures you. If you know what attracts you then go ahead and grab the job that you think is fit for you. There are a number of mid-tier law firms which are excellent in their respective areas. Try to look beyond big names. Apart from this, the way you present your CV especially the cover letter makes a lot of difference. If all this is fine, then it totally depends on how your interview goes.

     

    Lastly, what would be your message to our readers?

    After having spent 4 months in the professional sphere soon after college, I realise there should be an alteration in the way students usually study at law schools. Trimester system or no trimester system, what is needed is a strong foundation to be built. So, even if you are being taught only case law ‘x’ in the classroom, make sure you have knowledge of what the status of the case was right when it came before the court. I know it is easier said than done. But, you will realise the importance of a strong foundation when you start working. I am stressing on the need of a strong foundation because any place you join after college expects you to know the basics. They make sure you turn into excellent lawyers, but they will only recruit people who have got their basics right.

  • Vishaka Deshwal on maintaining CGPA, research papers and recruitment at WIPRO

    Vishaka Deshwal on maintaining CGPA, research papers and recruitment at WIPRO

    vishakha-deshwal-1Vishaka Deshwal is one of the most diligent and illustrious scholars of the 2015 batch of NLIU, Bhopal. She has participated in various co-curricular activities and has multiple publications to her name. With such a dynamic profile and her dedication to work, she has recently received a job offer from WIPRO. We asked her to share her experiences and strategies she used over the years.

    In this interview, she talks about:

    • Maintaining a decent CGPA
    • Importance of co-curricular activities
    • Writing research papers
    • Recruitment process at WIPRO

     

    How would you introduce yourself to our readers who are mostly law students and young lawyers?

    I am currently undergoing my final year at the National Law Institute University Bhopal. I would like to take this interview as an opportunity to share my views and insights on life in a law school and career decisions that a law student has to take.

     

    How did you decide to study law? Did you have lawyers in your family? Why law and not engineering or medical studies?

    There are no lawyers in my immediate family. I used the elimination method while deciding the subject of graduation because I knew what I did not like.

    I got to know about the Common Law Admission Test (“CLAT”) while reading something online and I liked the concept of an integrated law course. The more I read about the National Law Schools, the more I got interested in getting into one.

     

    As a law student which activities did you participate in? Did you have any guidance on how to go about your academics, co-curricular activities and internships?

    I did not devote my time to only one co-curricular activity. I tried my hand at Parliamentary Debates, Moot Courts, Mediation Competitions, Paper Presentations, etc. I did not want to miss on anything so I made it a point to at least try out most of the activities.

    From the first year onwards, I participated in Mediation Competitions, Client Counselling, Debating, as these do not require any prior substantial knowledge of law. I participated in moot courts and also tried my hand at writing research papers. I have also been associated with the Alternative Dispute Resolution Cell in the college since my first year.

    All in all, I tried a bit of everything and every activity turned out to be an add-on to my skills. Our seniors were always welcoming and helpful in guiding us on how to go about participating in various co-curricular activities.

     

    One can find it difficult to manage continuous evaluation through trimester exams, projects submissions, etc. in a law school. How did you manage to keep up your grades

    I think continuous evaluation through trimester system is not as difficult as it may seem from the outside. After a point, you just get used to making projects and writing examinations every three months. It is just that one needs to be regular so that the projects or submissions do not get piled up and become unmanageable. Although, I am not the topper of the class but I managed to keep my grades consistently above average. I was not always attentive in the classes but still managed to sail through. Scoring good grades is not a very difficult thing I realised.

    There is enough incentive to keep up your grades in a law school. Good grades are like cherry on the top. Sometimes, grades may even help you get through good internships.

     

    You have published a lot of papers in various prestigious journals. Can you give us a few tips to ace the art of paper writing?

    Research Papers are an integral part of any discipline. As law keeps evolving with time, there are always some loopholes or grey areas which need to be corrected. Mostly research papers  aim at bringing out the fallacy in the law and suggesting the remedial measures. Therefore, I think that writing papers has a much broader relevance for a law student than just enhancing the CV.

    There are two necessary things we should remember before writing a paper. First is choosing the right topic. The topic should be specific and should highlight an important point of law that needs consideration or analysis. Second is that there should always be a new proposition or suggestion at the end of the paper.

    Rest, I think all law students know about the basics of researching. The more you read up, the better understanding you would have about the topic.

     

    Your internships at law school have mainly been with top tier firms. Our readers would be quite curious to know how you went about securing these internships.

    I was prompt in applying for the internships especially internships at law firms. Also, I made it a point to follow up with the HR to know about the status of my application. I also got through some of the internships through the Placement Co-ordination Committee of our College. I think the key is relentless punctuality.

    I think there is nothing wrong with interning at law firms from the very beginning provided that you have made up your mind about joining one after college. I think it depends from person to person, if you are not sure which career option is best suited for you then it is better to try out all possible options and then make up your mind.

     

    Did you plan out your internships throughout law school or did it all just happen by chance?

    I did not plan my internships as such. I took up whatever came my way. The only thing that I made sure was that I get to work with different kinds of organisations be it- NGOs, Government Departments, Law firms or Office of Senior Advocates.

    I think one should try and narrow down the options by start working with different kinds of organisation form the first year only.

     

    How relevant did you find your law school education with the kind of work you were required to do at law firms?

    I think what we are taught at the law school is very much relevant. The research and interpretation skills that we acquire at the law school help us through the internships.

     

    How has your mooting experience been?

    I am not a hard-core mooter. I did one International Law based moot court in my fourth year and one National Moot Court in my second year. The kind of in depth study and research that we undertake while preparing for Moot Courts is incredible and makes the whole effort worthwhile.

    Although, I really liked mooting and it taught me a great deal, I found it very time-consuming. That is why I participated in a limited number of Moot Court Competitions.

     

    You have been a member of multiple committees while in law school. Do you think these enhanced your skill-sets? Please share a few of your memorable experience.

    I have been a member of the Alternative Dispute Resolution Cell (ADRC) form the first year itself. Mediation is one of my favourite areas of law and I enjoyed participating as well as assisting in organising Mediation Competitions as a member of the cell.

     

    Recently, you secured a job offer at WIPRO. How did you go about achieving this? Please tell us about the recruitment process at WIPRO?

    WIPRO had come down to our campus for the first time, for recruitment purpose. The process was divided into three stages: first of all, an extempore was conducted. Some of the candidates were eliminated at this stage. Next, there were two rounds of interviews with different panel of interviewers. While the focus of the first interview was personality assessment, the second was majorly limited to legal questions. After the two set of interviews, there was further short-listing. The selected candidates were given a written assignment which was to be submitted the next day i.e. the day of the final interview. The final interview only comprised of questions relating to personality assessment.

     

    How did you prepare for the job interview? What kinds of questions were asked to you?

    While preparing for an interview, it is of utmost importance to be thorough with your CV. Mostly, the interviewers ask you about areas of law that you have worked on in your internships and seldom about your publications or other co-curricular achievements. Therefore, reading up the topics that I had mentioned under my internship experiences was the first thing I did.

    While making my CV, I made it a point to states the title of the work that was assigned to me on the internship (specifically mentioning the provision or name of any case law involved) leaving no scope for any vagueness or open-endedness. This way I was able to limit the number of probable questions.

    The bottom-line is that most of the questions can be anticipated and prepared for well before. By doing so, you feel confident while articulating your answers during the interview.

     

    Many law students strongly believe that getting a job at one of the top 3 law firms is mostly about securing a high GPA. Would you agree?

    Good grades or co-curricular activities alone are not enough. It is a combination of the two that projects you as a dynamic lawyer. Maintaining grades is important as that is the core of law school curriculum but we should not limit ourselves to writing exams and securing good marks.

    Many people believe that working as an in-house counsel affords more work-life balance and is less demanding. What is your opinion?

    Compared to working at law firms, job of an in-house counsel is less demanding thereby it affords more work-life balance. However, one should always strive to achieve work-life balance irrespective of the nature of the job.

     

    If you could re-live your 5 years in Law school, is there something you would do differently?

    I do not wish to change anything about my time spent in the Law School. I think even the mistakes that I made eventually helped me improve in some way or the other.

     

    Lastly, what would be your message for our readers?

    I think we should never stop exploring because there is always a plethora of opportunities out there; we just need to have an open mind.