Super Lawyer

Category: Interviews

  • Funmi Oyeneyin on LL.M from UCL, work at Ernst & Young and at Adam & Partners

    Funmi Oyeneyin on LL.M from UCL, work at Ernst & Young and at Adam & Partners

    funmi-o-2Funmi Oyeneyin graduated with an LL.B from King’s College and thereafter pursued an LL.M in International Law from University College, London. She came across the opportunity to intern at the UN.

    Funmi worked as a corporate tax adviser at Ernst & Young and  is currently working at Adam & Partners.

    Read more about her career choices while working at different international firms.

     

    Given that most of our readers are law students and young lawyers, how will you introduce yourself to them?

    I grew up in Scotland with Nigerian parents, having dual nationality from birth. Suffice to say internationalism also plays a key role in my work, the focus of which is international commercial law. I also have an academic interest in Public International Law, specifically WTO and investment treaties.

     

    Amongst the various career options, what motivated you to choose law?

    At the age of 16 I participated in a mock trial of Tom Robinson (To Kill a Mocking Bird). The seed of legal aspiration was sown. I relish the academic challenge of the law and the process of analysis to reach evidence based conclusions.

    Moreover, the law plays a pivotal role in society. For me, to have the knowledge so as to have a real impact in people’s lives and in turn shape societal norms, hopefully for the better, is important.

     

    You pursued your undergraduate (LL.B.) degree from King’s College. What was the application procedure? Are there any entrance tests?

    I applied through the Universities and Colleges Admissions Service (UCAS) application process. UCAS is the British admission service for students applying to university, through which students can apply to five universities.

    “In my day” there were no entrance exam requirements for an LL.B at Kings. I believe all applicants must now sit for the National Admissions Test for Law (LNAT)

     

    What prompted you to choose KCL for an LL.B. degree? Were there any other Universities in mind while applying at KCL?

    I focused my L.LB application on the top tier law schools as per the published ranking, applying to Cambridge, Durham, King’s College London (KCL), Edinburgh, and Glasgow. I was fortunate that all, barring Cambridge, accepted my application.

    Initially, Durham was my first choice. However, on attending the open day for King’s, I literally changed my mind that same day. Perhaps it was its proximity to the Royal Courts of Justice or the grand Maughan Library, but ultimately it was a gut feeling. One would expect a more logical answer from a lawyer but it really was that simple. A decision I have never regretted.

     

    You had started your professional career with Ernst & Young as a Corporate Tax Advisor. What was the application procedure? What did your work profile consist of?

    Application Procedure

    It was a three stage application process.

    Stage 1: an online application. A minimum 2.1 degree was required to qualify to complete the online application.

    Stage 2: A telephonic interview.

    Stage 3: An assessment day at EY’s office in More London. It consisted of a group exercise, an interview with HR, and a final interview with a partner.

    Work profile

    At Ernst & Young, I trained and qualified as a Chartered Accountant, qualifying into International Tax Services (ITS) where I advised UK and foreign multinationals on tax efficient structuring and solutions. My work profile was both finance based, in that I collated and analysed financial information, and legal such as substantial research into complex UK tax law, ECJ judgments and International Treaties.

     

    Why did you choose to go for an LL.M. in International Law? Was it a job requirement in any manner?

    The LL.M was not a job requirement. International law has always fascinated me, having studied Public International Law at King’s, and then subsequent experience in the application of international tax treaties at EY. I decided to undertake an LL.M in international law to further engage this interest and progress my career to involve a broad international remit.

     

    How did you decide on University College London? Did you consider any other colleges?

    Once again I focused on the reputation of the law school and international law departments. Wanting to remain in London, I considered LSE, King’s, and UCL. I decided on UCL due to the available courses and the tutor Philippe Sands, a world-renowned international lawyer.

    As a King’s alumni, defecting to the “godless institution on Gower Street” was difficult. However, UCL’s current worldwide ranking has gone some way to help ease the shame of my betrayal to King’s.

     

    How does one prepare to get admission in University College London? Does the admission procedure involve several levels?

    The admission process for UCL’s LL.M programme was straightforward. It was done via an application form and required a minimum 2.1 LLB degree to qualify to apply.

    I spent a fair amount of time on my personal statement so as to convey my genuine interest in the subject. Outside academic aptitude an interest in the subject matter is important for a postgraduate degree.

     

    What are the top 3 things you kept in mind while selecting a university for LL.M.?

    The reputation of the law school and faculty.

    Availability of subjects in line with areas of interest, international law.

    Purpose of the LL.M – purely academic or to enhance employment opportunities.

     

    Education in the U.K. must have been very expensive. What are the scholarships available?

    The Scottish Loan authority provides student loans for university. Similarly banks can provide student loans for Bar School. Furthermore scholarships are available through the Inns of Courts.

     

    You had interned at the U.N. for about 3 months. How has your experience been? What did you take away from such an internship?

    It was a fantastic experience. Given my longstanding interest in international law, working at the international organization gave me unprecedented access to see how international laws and rules are applied in practice.

    My take away was that the purpose of the UN, in facilitating international cooperation in an increasingly interconnected world, remains fundamental even if it may suffer from bureaucracy inherent to civil service.

    Additionally, I worked with interns from all over the world and the obvious similarity between us all stemmed from a comparable social economic background. Showing that access to opportunity plays a greater role than race or culture.

     

    Would you say that the work environment at Adam & Partners Investment Advisors LLC was significantly different than Ernst & Young?

    EY is large organization and required an element of regimented hierarchy so as to function efficiently. Furthermore, it allowed for specialism in one area at an early stage.

    On the other hand, Adam & Partners, as a smaller organisation, allows for more autonomy and flexibility. The area of work is wider ranging.

    I received fantastic training at EY however I am personally better suited to the flexibility and autonomy of working with clients such as Adam &Partners.

     

    Would you say your LL.M. from UCL helped in being successful at Adam & Partners?

    In general, legal training helps to develop the ability to absorb a lot of information, analyse it and come to a conclusion. It also develops effective communication skills. These skills are helpful for any position.

    Further, friends made at UCL, a lot of whom were lawyers from other countries, have become a useful network.

     

    Having been part of a multi-cultural set-up with international clientele, did you face any cultural challenges? How did you address them?

    From birth, having dual nationality, I have been comfortable in a multi-cultural environment but acknowledge that there are inevitable cultural tensions. However, in a professional environment I have found that any such hostility tends not to be openly aggressive. The main issue I encounter is that of lowered expectation, not based on my qualifications but rather preconceptions.

    To address this, it has been important for me to remain confident in my ability and remain appropriate at all time. Furthermore, positive and consistent achievement tends to negate any such assumption.

     

    Since you are now on the other side of the table, can you give us the ‘recruiters’ point of view’, as to what they look for in a potential hire?

    Intellectual aptitude is a must. The law is academically challenging and the ability to analyse and interpret it is fundamental.

    That being said, soft skills such as good judgment, tenacity, and emotional intelligence are equally important.

    Work experience is also valuable. Be it legal internships, or simply a part time job at a coffee shop – something that demonstrates an ability to interact successfully with others in a work environment.

     

    What would be your parting message to our readers who are mainly law students and young lawyers?

    Get the grade. Rightly or wrongly, one of the most objective ways employers judge intellectual aptitudes is academic grades. Every aspect of your journey into the law has a minimum academic requirement.

    Undertake a legal internship/paralegal, even if it is unpaid. It will do two things. First, demonstrate your ability to apply legal knowledge to real life situations. Second, it will allow you decide if you actually enjoy working as a lawyer. Often the practice of law is different from academic study.

    Be flexible. The current employment environment is rather difficult for law graduates, with limited traineeships being offered. In order to best navigate this do not be discouraged by rejections, instead make a list of why the law and what you want from a career in law. Be willing to be creative to access and develop the skills needed.

    Finally, be positive and good luck.

  • Amit Singh Chauhan on LL.M from Harvard, diploma course from NLSIU and LSE

    Amit Singh Chauhan on LL.M from Harvard, diploma course from NLSIU and LSE

    Amit Singh Chauhan graduated from Delhi University in Economics and Law in 2009. Thereafter he worked at the chambers of Gopal Subramaniam for 2 years and then went on to pursue an LL.M from Harvard.

    He has cracked the New York Bar Exam and is currently working as an associate at the chambers of N. Hariharan.

    In this interview we asked him about:

    • Experience of diploma courses from NLSIU and LSE
    • LL.M from Harvard and cracking the NY Bar

     

    Tell us a bit about your childhood and pre-college life as well as educational background. Did you have lawyers in your family?

    I did my schooling from St. Columba’s School, New Delhi.  After the class X boards, I was offered a scholarship by CBSE for securing an almost perfect score (99/100) in science and also received the Vedanta Mehra Memorial award for the same. I chose to pursue science with economics and later on, went on to do B.A. (Hons) Economics from the University of Delhi. Apart from this, I was actively involved in various extracurricular activities. I represented my class in swimming, cricket, quizzing and have also played chess at the state level.

    I do have lawyers in my family. My father, Mr. Ram Singh Chauhan, is a practising advocate in the Delhi High Court and Supreme Court of India and I am also married to a lawyer.

     

    Tell us a bit about your work life, your dreams and aspirations?

    I am presently working with Mr. N. Hariharan, Sr. Advocate and practicing mainly criminal law with him before various judicial forums in Delhi. He ensures that his juniors burn the midnight oil. An average working day for me is 14-15 hours. Whatever little time I get when the courts are on vacation, my father ensures that I help him with Civil Litigation and Arbitrations. Overall, I am a pretty ambitious person. My aim is to be a leading arguing counsel in this country and I ensure that I put in the effort required to be one.

     

    How was your experience of studying in a college that has churned out many eminent lawyers, judges and academicians?

    In one word it was ‘great’. The professors are highly accomplished and recognized nationally as the best in their respective fields. They are easily accessible and always willing to help. Apart from academics, there are a lot of extracurricular activities on offer like mooting, legal aid clinics etc. Further, you are encouraged to participate in social, political and cultural activities which the Delhi University has to offer. I believe all of this helps in the overall development as an individual and in becoming a better lawyer.

     

    After completing your LL.B, you pursued Diplomas from NLSIU and LSE. According to you, what value addition do diplomas do to a law student/lawyer?

    I pursued these Diplomas while I was pursuing my LL.B.  At NLSIU, I pursued a post-graduate diploma in Intellectual Property Rights and at LSE, I attended the summer school for Introduction to Corporate Law & Governance and Intellectual Property Rights.  These Diplomas, apart from providing you an edge in terms of employment, are greatly helpful if you intend to specialise in a specific field.

    My aim in pursuing these Diplomas was a bit different. I always knew that I wanted to be a litigator. I believed that I should be adequately equipped to argue or assist in any and all  kind of matters. It is for this reason I pursued these Diplomas.

     

    You also worked in the chambers of Mr. Gopal Subramanium for more than 2 years. How was the experience of working under such an eminent advocate?

    Working closely with  Mr. Gopal Subramanium, former Solicitor General of India  in advising and representing the Government of India, State Governments in India and major public sector undertakings involved in the Power Sector, Oil and Natural gas, Mining and Extraction, Telecommunication, Insurance and Finance etc., has helped me acquire sound knowledge of different laws and regulatory frameworks in India and abroad. Mr. Subramanium is a great mentor and ensures that his juniors are constructively employed while they are a part of his chamber. He is easily accessible to his juniors and goes out of his way to help them. I consider myself very lucky for having been granted an opportunity to work with him so early in my career.

     

    It is often said that classroom education and college mooting is totally different than actual court practice. What are your views in this regard?

    Classroom education and college mooting are essential in acquiring the basic understanding of law and practice. However, it is also true that Classroom education and college mooting gives you only a bird’s eye view of what actual practice is like. The pressures, stakes, strategies and technicalities of real practice are far more complicated than Classroom education and college mooting.

     

    amit-singh-chauhan-1After that, you went on to pursue LL.M. from Harvard Law School? How did you choose the universities that you applied to? What were the other universities of choice?

    After working with Mr. Gopal Subramanium for over two years I went on to pursue my LL.M. at Harvard Law. I wanted to pursue a General LL.M. so  I chose the universities in the following order: by their rankings, the subjects which I intended to study, and the faculty. In the UK I had applied to Oxford and Cambridge, and in the United States, I had applied to Harvard, Stanford, Cornell, Columbia, UPenn, and NYU. My advice to people who intend on applying for a LL.M. is that not only the subject you intend on studying matters but also, the overall reputation of the university.

     

    How was your experience and what courses did you study at Harvard?

    From day 1, Harvard was overwhelming in terms of academics and the sheer amount of activities which were on offer. You would wake up in the morning with emails from different societies and departments informing you about the events/guest lecturers for the day. Even if I wanted, I still could not attend to all which I wanted to. My only regret is that I did not have more time at Harvard.

    I studied courses on Constitutional Law, International Arbitration, Mergers & Acquisition and  White Collar Crimes amongst others. The teaching methodology involving mock transactions, trials and investigations greatly enhanced my abilities in understanding the finer points of a legal transaction. I went on to receive Honors in my International Commercial Arbitration class and my Paper on White Collar Crimes.

     

    Did you consider taking up a job in the USA itself? What were the opportunities available to you?

    I was always keen on coming back to India and practice. However, the only time I did consider taking a job in USA was after the Bar exam, which by all standards was late.  I did manage to get interviews with a couple of leading law firms in New York and Washington, D.C..

    LL.M. students have the New York job fair in January. However, most are looking to hire from countries whose legal market is open unlike India. For an Indian, it is double the effort if he/she is looking for a job and even after that there is no surety.

     

    You have also done B.A. in Economics (Hons.) from Delhi University? Has this specialization in Economics helped you in any way in your legal studies?

    Yes, I have. It was particularly helpful to me while developing or considering policies/laws and their impact on individual and society while working with the Solicitor General.  It also comes in handy from time to time, when I am involved with Banking, Finance or other commercial matters.

     

    You have recently cleared New York Bar Exam, it is said to be the world’s toughest bar exam. How strenuous would you say it was preparing for the exam? What are the rules and strategies you followed in order to crack the exam?

    It was quite strenuous especially as I started late and I knew it was my first and final shot at it. Further, it becomes more strenuous by the fact that you have about 50 days after you graduate to prepare 56 subjects/topics. I would actually give credit to my wife, Shikha, who was there to support me and ensured that I kept my cool.

    To prepare for the Bar I took classes offered by Barbri. There are others like Kaplan etc. who offer preparatory classes for the Bar. I followed their schedule as much I could and also, ensured that I had enough time for left for self study.  Since, I started my preparation later than others I had to put in 14-16 hours a day to prepare for the Bar. People who are serious about the Bar should start preparing immediately after the exams to ease the pressure.

     

    What are the minimum educational qualifications for an Indian to be eligible for the New York Bar exam? What are the job opportunities available after clearing it?

    I believe a year of education from ABA accredited institute is the minimum qualification for an Indian. Also, you are required to study specific subjects and have a minimum number of credits before you can sit for the Bar. I think people interested in taking the NY bar should check the New York Bar website for the pre-requisites.

    (The requirements could have changed. Kindly check with the NY Bar/website for the exact requirements)

    Your chances of securing a job improve greatly. However, this does change the fact Law firms prefer J.D. students and international students from countries whose market is open. Thus, for Indians it will still be difficult.

     

    What would be your advice to law students from traditional universities who want to do well in their career?

    I am going to keep it short as I am too young to advice anyone. My advice would be to work hard, work smart and be creative in your approach. Test your limit every time you think you have done your best.

     

  • Swati Shanker, Law Graduate, NLIUB, on preparing for interviews and appointment at AMSS

    Swati Shanker, Law Graduate, NLIUB, on preparing for interviews and appointment at AMSS

    Swati Shanker is a student from National Law Institute University, Bhopal, batch of 2015. She has interned with top notch law firms and was placed with Amarchand & Mangaldas & Suresh A. Shroff & Co. during campus placements.

    In this interview we speak to her about:

    • Managing Grades in a trimester system
    • Excelling at moot court competitions
    • Securing a job from Amarchand

     

    How would you introduce yourself to our readers who are mostly law students and young lawyers?

    Firstly, I would like to congratulate the Super Lawyer team for initiating this informative web portal. I think it by sharing first hand experiences of lawyers and law students pertaining to various law school activities and higher studies provides valuable insights to law students and will help them decide their career path and objectives accordingly.

    Talking about myself, I am a fifth year law student of National Law Institute University, Bhopal. I am a first generation lawyer. My law school journey till date has been a valuable learning experience. As a law student, I have always tried to excel in both academics as well as extra-curricular and co-curricular activities like mooting, authoring research papers etc.  This has helped me learn not only the theoretical aspects of law but has also helped me inculcate legal-analytical approach and hence the practical application of the subjects.

    My area of interest is corporate law and in furtherance of my interest I have interned at some major corporate law firms like Wadia Ghandy, AMSS. I have also authored various articles on current corporate topics. I look forward to establish myself as a successful corporate lawyer and make significant contributions in this sphere.

    I like reading novels. I also have an inclination towards meditation and have trained myself in various forms of the same. I like travelling and exploring new places.

     

    How did you decide to study law?

    Being part of various social welfare organisations and having been involved in various social activities since my school days, I developed an inclination towards law at a very early stage. However, I never considered of pursuing a career in law initially and opted for science after 10th boards. In my standard 12th I came to know about the Common Law admission Test (CLAT) and it appealed to me a lot as I perceived it as an opportunity to nurture and develop my interest in law. Being a first generation lawyer my parents had apprehensions towards legal career and hence I had no option of quitting science altogether. So I started preparing for engineering and law entrances simultaneously and cracked both. Despite of being offered national engineering colleges my parents being very supportive allowed me to pursue my dream career and hence I ended up landing in law.

    I am a first generation lawyer.

     

    How did you manage to keep up your grades?

    I found trimester system to be easy going and more helpful in improving grades. Continuous evaluations in a trimester system can make one realise his or her strengths and weaknesses and hence improve performance with each trimester. I managed to keep up my grade by paying attention to class room lectures and self study. Class room lectures not only help you keep a track of the course but also in a broader manner portray the content and the manner in which questions should be answered in an examination. I treasured valuable experiences from each trimester, employed them in subsequent ones and managed to excel my performance with each trimester.

     

    swati-sanker-1Can you tell us about your mooting experience?

    (Swati has won Stetson International Environment Moot (South Rounds) and represented the university in Stetson International Round.)

    Winning Stetson and getting an opportunity to represent India was one of the most valuable law experiences of mine.  The moot provided me a huge exposure to international law and its facets. Both national rounds and international rounds require an individual to be aware of each and every minute details of the problem. However, international law differs from national round in one aspect that the judges put extreme weight age on mannerism and courtesy.  The moot was not only helpful academically but also provided an opportunity to interact with various national and international teams.

     

    In your opinion, what would it take to excel at moot court competitions?

    Intelligent and diligent team work guarantees success at moot court competitions. Mooters should have an eye for each and every detail, as a single word can change the whole game. To excel at moot court competitions one needs to follow following steps:

    • Be well versed with the problem
    • Research should be exhaustive and meticulous
    • Memorandum should be neatly drafted and formatted.
    • Oral arguments should be properly structured and logical.

     

    Our readers would be quite curious to know how you went about securing your internships.

    Yes, I have interned with some major corporate law firms. I secured theses internships through both personal applications and college’s recruitment committee. A well drafted and tailored CV plays a significant role in fetching an internship. Further, getting an internship through personal application requires one to prepare a well drafted cover letter and vigilant follow up.

     

    How relevant did you find your law school education with the kind of work you were required to do at law firms?

    I consider internships as a great learning experience as it provides a practical exposure to diverse areas of law and helps an individual find his area of interest. Internships were always a deliberate plan for me because I considered it as a tool of exploring my area of interest and decide my career objectives. In furtherance of the same, in my initial years at law school I interned with various high court and Supreme Court lawyers, commissions, litigation law firms and corporate law firms. Of all these internship experiences I found corporate law to be very appealing and decided to pursue my career in the same.

    Law school education focuses mainly on the theoretical aspects of law whereas internships are more about practical application of law. However, law school education helps in developing a fundamental understanding of law and sets a broader picture of law. Based upon my practical experiences, I found law school education to be if not sole but a contributing factor for having a successful internship experience.

     

    What do you have to say about law students interning exclusively at law firms all through their undergraduate years?

    Law being a diverse field, a well informed decision as to area of interest is a prerequisite condition for a successful legal career. Internships assist an individual in arriving at such informed decision. Rushing forth to intern at law firms since the very first year frustrates the objective behind internships. Hence, I would advise that rather than opting this attitude law students should strive for diverse internship experiences at vivid places in their experiences and then take an informed decision.

     

    Please tell us about the recruitment application process at AMSS.

    Yes, I have been offered a job at AMSS through campus placement.  I have interned twice with AMSS. I applied for these internships through the college’s recruitment committee. The recruitment application process at AMSS involves majorly two steps. First stage involves short listing of C.V.  and the shortlisted candidates are then asked to fill a questionnaire providing various personal and academic details. This is followed by the final and deciding round i.e. personal interview.

     

    How did you prepare for the job interview?

    My job interview preparation was based primarily on C.V, general corporate laws and HR questions. My AMSS job interview was primarily C.V based. In order to crack the interview one needs to be very thorough with the C.V. Hence, it is advisable that the C.V. should be drafted properly and should contain only those things about which you are confident. Further, while reading C.V. you should also try to find out any recent development in the area that you have mentioned in your C.V. Thus, a C.V. reading should be both vertical and horizontal. Further, overview knowledge of various major corporate laws subjects like, Contract, Companies Act, Transfer or Property, Partnership and securities laws are advisable.

    Yes, HR questions were also asked in the interview. The HR questions asked in the interview were usually repetitions of the AMSS questionnaire that one is supposed to fill after the short listing stage.

    One more thing that I would like to add here is if you have interned with AMSS previously always be thorough about the team with which you have worked. In the interview you might be asked the name of the team and the partners you have worked for. Also one is advisable to be updated on the recent developments in the firm.

     

    Are grades of critical importance in securing a job?

    To some extent this assertion is correct. CGPA plays a determinative role in securing a job for some of these law firms. However, it is not necessary that in order to get placed here you need to have extraordinarily high grades. Decent grades (among top twenty rankers) coupled with significant extra-curricular activities will also achieve the purpose.

     

    If you could re-live your five years in Law school, is there something you would do differently?

    I have balanced my law school life by placing equal importance on both academic and extra-curricular activities. In five years at law school I have managed to win moots, author research papers, however, I never got a chance to spend considerable time on sports. So, if given a chance to re-do my five years in law school I would like be more active in sports and would like to represent my college at various sports fests.

     

    What’s the next goal on your list?

    Currently I do not intend to do an LL.M because at this juncture I am looking forward to working with AMSS and learning the practical aspects of corporate law.  However, in order to broaden my domain of knowledge, I might consider doing an LL.M in corporate laws from abroad.

     

    swati-sanker-3Lastly, what would be your message for our readers?

    My message to readers would be that “intelligent hard work always pays off”.  Success demands dedication and consistency. Further, you should be sure about your career goals and objectives. As per my practical experiences success at law school is a four step process:

    Maintain good grades

    Intern with diverse institutions  and find out your area of interest

    Undertake various extra and co-curricular activities, be it mooting, papers, sports.

    Develop social and communication skills

    To sum up my law school experience:  “Law school journey is like a roller coaster ride, enjoy the rises and falls.”

     

  • Shruti Hiremath, Legal Adviser, Allen & Overy, on dual LL.M. from NYU & NUS, and her experience thus far

    Shruti Hiremath, Legal Adviser, Allen & Overy, on dual LL.M. from NYU & NUS, and her experience thus far

    Shruti Hiremath graduated from NUJS in 2011. Following that she pursued an LL.M, which required her to attend two of the world’s best known universities – New York University and National University of Singapore. She is currently associated with Allen & Overy, in the capacity of Legal Adviser, where her role entails handling structured and asset finance.

    In this interview we speak to her about:

    • Studying in the US
    • Having a dual degree
    • Plans for the future

    What was your motivation behind doing LL.M.? 

    I decided to do my masters when I was in my final year. While many are of the opinion that it is best to do an LL.M after getting some work experience under one’s belt, it is my belief that if you are certain about the area in which you want to specialise in, having just graduated should not deter you from applying for a masters (it might in fact be beneficial to do so as you get to learn from the experiences of your classmates even before you start on your first job). In-depth study of my chosen subjects and international exposure were my primary motivations in applying for an LL.M.

     

    How did you choose the university/ college? 

    In choosing a university/college, it is very important to focus on whether a given university/college offers the specific courses that you want to do and who the faculty taking those courses are. It is also crucial to think about any other objectives you may have in doing a masters. Personally, I was certain I wanted to focus on business laws. Also, I wanted to attend a program wshruti-h1ith a smaller class size as I think this allows you to interact closely with more people. The NYU@NUS program met these requirements to a T. Being a dual masters program, I was able to study more subjects in my chosen specialty and the class consisted of only 45 students.
    I also applied to the Masters in Law and Finance at Oxford University, but withdrew my application once I received a positive response from NYU@NUS for two reasons: first, I would get greater international exposure, not only in terms of a diverse class but also in terms of giving me the opportunity to experience life in more than one international city (the program allows you to study in three international cities – Singapore, New York and Shanghai); and second, I was offered the Deans’ Award, a merit-based scholarship.

     

    What did you study? 

    I did my LL.M from NYU in global business laws and the LL.M from NUS in corporate and financial services. This is an area that has been of interest to me for very long and since I hoped to work on the transactional side, I decided to take up this field of specialisation.

     

    How was your experience? 

    I had a very enriching experience both within and outside the classroom. The facilities were fantastic both at NYU and at NUS be it academic or otherwise. There was no point where I felt that something was missing. As for the faculty, I couldn’t have asked for better. Both NYU and NUS have renowned faculty and the NYU@NUS program really gives one the best of both worlds – be it Prof.Joseph Weiler (World Trade Law and EU Law), Prof. Franco Ferrari (CISG), Prof. Soornarajah (International Investment Law), Prof. Michal Gal (Competition Law), Prof. Gary Born (International Commercial Arbitration) or Prof. Umakant Varottil (Indian Business Law) to name a few. I got an opportunity to learn from the best in these fields which I will always cherish. The one thing that really stands out is that most of these professors were not pure academicians but had either practised law at some point or did so alongside teaching. This I think is very beneficial for the students as these professors are able to adapt the courses to make them more relevant to actual practice.

     

    How’s the Indian fraternity over there? 

    On the NYU@NUS program itself we were six Indians. During the NUS terms, we attend classes with NUS students. The NUS program has a very strong representation from India at the LL.M level.

     

    How is the recruitment/ placement situation for overseas students?

    Being a dual masters program, students are able to use the career services of both NYU and NUS. The career services organise fairs and also conduct practice interview sessions with various law firms. Students can also attend the International Student Interview Program in New York where many international firms come to recruit.

     

    How was the academic schedule? 

    Being a dual masters, the academic schedule was hectic. During the NYU terms we had intensive sessions where we studied only one subject at a time for three weeks at a stretch instead of having one class a week over a semester. I found this system quite effective as it gives one’s study a sense of continuity. Classes with the NYU professors were extremely interactive. The readings would be allocated/uploaded the previous day and we would have to come prepared to have a discussion on the topic. The NUS terms were like the usual semester system. In addition to classes, we also had to write papers and make presentations.

     

    What about accommodation?

    In Singapore, NUS offers a place called College Green to NYU@NUS students. These are three bedroom houses that are very close to the campus. I chose to live at a private hostel called Evans Lodge which was also very close to the campus and more reasonably priced. In New York, I lived at D’Agostino Hall which is one of the NYU halls of residence. These are two or three bedroom flats that you share with other students. I shared a flat with another NYU@NUS student and a JD student at NYU.

     

    Tell us about your classmates – was there a predominantly international crowd? 

    Most students were in their late twenties or early thirties. The crowd was undoubtedly international. Even though we were a class of only 45 students, 23 countries were represented. The diversity was amazing. It gave me a chance to learn about so many different cultures and realise how we are all so different and yet so similar.

     

    Did you get time for any extra-curricular activities?

    There’s always time to do anything you want to, if you manage your time well! Being a dual masters, the program was very hectic. But people did manage to take out time to play sports or get involved in other extra-curricular activities . Personally, I used my time to work as a research assistant for Prof. Umakant Varottil which was a very enriching experience.

     

    How does one go about scholarships? 

    There are a number of scholarships offered for Indian students going to study abroad such as the ones offered by the Tata Endowment, Inlaks Foundation and so on. Each has its own application procedures. It is important to research their requirements well in advance and keep track of the deadlines. While I did apply for these scholarships and was shortlisted for various interviews, since the program starts earlier than other masters (in May), I was unable to attend any of the scholarship interviews. The program itself does offer various scholarships such as the Deans’ Award, the Singapura scholarship and the David Marshall Scholarship.

     

    What are your future plans? 

    I am currently working in London at Allen & Overy. The in-depth knowledge of various business laws and the international exposure gained on the NYU@NUS experience has been extremely beneficial for the cross-border nature of work I am involved in here. Also, the program meets eligibility requirements for taking the New York bar exam. This is an added advantage as it increases one’s mobility and enables one to advise on a broader range of transactions. As for future plans, I plan to continue working in this field.

     

    This interview was taken in 1st quarter of 2013 by A First Taste of Law.

  • Sudeep Das, Civil Judge, Odisha Government, on working at Jindal Steel and cracking the Odisha judicial test

    Sudeep Das, Civil Judge, Odisha Government, on working at Jindal Steel and cracking the Odisha judicial test

    sudeep-das-2

    Sudeep Kumar Das graduated from Hidayatullah National Law University in 2009, after which, he spent a year and a half working at Jindal Stainless Steel Ltd. However, he decided to quit his comfortable lifestyle and join the judiciary instead.

    We have taken this opportunity to ask him about:

    • His experience as a law student at Hidayatullah National Law University
    • His time as an employee at Jindal Stainless Steel Ltd
    • Tips on clearing the Odisha judicial entrance test

     

    Tell us a bit about yourself.

    I come from a middle class family. My father is a government servant and my mother is a home maker. I did my schooling from Bhubaneswar and went on to join HNLU after that. I am presently posted as Civil Judge-cum-Judicial Magistrate First Class, Koraput.

     

    What were your ambitions before joining the law college?

    Yes, I am a first generation lawyer in my family. For as long as I can remember, I wanted to be an IAS officer – mainly because my father was in the administrative services. In fact, I was never inclined towards law, until after my class 12 exams, when my father brought me law entrance exam forms to fill up.I wrote exams for NALSAR, Symbiosis, HNLU and GNLU. On the day of the Symbiosis exam, I was in Kolkata on holiday and my father sprang a surprise on me and handed me the admit card, I went ahead, took the exam, and cleared it – along with HNLU and GNLU. I joined HNLU at the age of sixteen and, even then, the only thing I wanted was to live the ‘law school’ life, make friends, and have fun – a far cry from any real inclination towards law. However, it was destined.

     

    How was your college life?

    My college life was beyond great! HNLU will always be the best thing to have happened to me. Students with different linguistic backgrounds, cultures, traditions and customs, gathered and shared their views and opinions. That, in many ways, shaped my life and broadened my horizons. For a boy from a small city, the experience of living away from home, and meeting and interacting with new people was a challenge. I was an average student. I was never into serious stuff in college. I always had the notion that college life involves enjoying and living life to the fullest. Even on the last day of HNLU, I never thought of entering into judiciary. Like many of us who study law, a decent job with good money was all I thought about. The realisation of an actual career came only after I joined the corporate sector.

     

    When did you decide to get into judiciary?

    During my law school career I had interned with almost all the top law firms like AMSS, Khaitan, Luthra & Luthra, JSA, S&R, Karanjawala etc. But I never wanted to be in law firms as I had to prepare for the civil services examination. So I joined Jindal Steel with a thought that working in a company would provide me time to prepare for the civil services. But this thought went out of the window, the day I got my first salary. I lost focus and was swayed. With good money coming your way and living in the capital city with your best friends, people generally lose their aim of life. But after a few months I realised this is not what I wanted to do my whole life. Life is much more than sitting behind a desk, doing some research and briefing advocates. Life is to create your own name however small it may be. Further, being in the company I was never going to give anything back to the society. I wanted that each day when I go to sleep, I could tell myself that today I did something satisfactory.

     

    What motivated you most to be part of Orissa State judiciary?

    Judiciary is one of the most respected and revered institutions of our country and the backbone of our democracy. I always wanted to serve the people. For me, judiciary and executive are the only institutions in this country where you directly come in contact with the society at large and deal with their problems. People demand justice. There is no better service than being a part of the justice delivery system and imparting justice to people. As the judicial exams are conducted by State Public Service Commission and I was not conversant with Hindi, which is a mandatory requirement for Judicial Service Exams in other states, I opted for Orissa Judiciary.

     

    How did you remember the sections of the Acts in your syllabus and leading case laws on varied areas of law?

    Firstly, the idea of doing well in the field of law has nothing to do with remembering the sections of Acts. The Judicial Services Exams test not your memory but your knowledge. For instance, the kind of questions we faced were:

    Which article of the constitution includes the right to environment etc.?
    (a) Article 19 (b) Article 21 (c) Article 51 (d) Article 48

    Now, any person who has merely read the bare provisions will not be able to answer this, since the fundamental answer that the examiner is looking for is that the candidate is aware of Supreme Court’s interpretation of Article 21 to include the right to environment. People get confused, look into DPSP and fundamental duties, and get the answer wrong. The test is to determine an adequate knowledge of the constitution, which only comes by having a holistic view of constitutional law. Clarity of the basics overrides the need to memorise provisions. Case laws can be taken care of by reading commentaries and newspapers. Furthermore,the questions are generally regarding landmark cases, which every law school student is usually aware of.

     

    How did you prepare for the exam?

    Daily routine was not my cup of tea. So, I planned my preparation on a weekly basis and set deadlines to finish the syllabus.For the preliminary examination, bare acts are a must, but they won’t help if fundamentals are weak. I relied on Universal’s guide for preliminary examinations, as well. Also, note-making is one way to prepare for the main examination. They helped me greatly with quick revision. Good commentaries on each subject are essential for a basic understanding and for clarification of doubts. For example, for constitutional law, I referred to D.D.Basu. In fact, I found that the books we referred to in law school were enough to crack the exam.

     

    Would you say an exam like this requires coaching classes?

    No, not necessary at all.

     

    How did you prepare yourself for the interview?

    My interview was mostly on the subjects I opted for in the main examination like the Indian Penal Code, Contract Act, Torts, Negotiable Instruments Act etc. The interview board consisted of a Judge of the Hon’ble High Court and two members of the Orissa Public Service Commission. As for questions, I was asked about the difference between murder and culpable homicide not amounting to murder. The members asked about current affairs and recent Supreme Court decisions.

    I would also like to highlight that in judicial examinations, the major focus is on the Criminal Procedure Code, Code of Civil Procedure and Evidence Act, as these are the provisions which a judge will be applying in day-to-day activities. However, in national law schools these subjects are not given due importance as most of the focus is on corporate law and intellectual property law.

    In the interview session, one needs to be calm and focused. Even if the candidate does not know the answer,he/she should not panic. The interview is not to test your knowledge;that has already been done in the main examination. The interviewer wants to analyse whether you are fit to be a judge. Various practical situations will be put to you and your reaction to these situations will be the basis of your selection. For example, if an advocate in court makes irrelevant submissions in the court, what should be a judge’s reaction? A judge must have patience and needs to be composed. Furthermore, sudden reactions to submissions are not warranted from a judge. A judge needs to analyse law and all submissions – however irrelevant they may be – and pass a reasoned order.

     

    Tell us about your time at Orissa Judicial Academy?

    In law school, we learn the law, but in the academy, we learn the application of law in the justice delivery system. We are taught to write reasoned judgments, orders etc. The subordinate judiciary is where litigation begins. The root must be strong enough to hold the system. We are trained to record evidence of the witnesses and apply the procedures properly in day-to-day proceedings in consonance with the recent amendments and decisions of the Honourable Supreme Court and High Courts.

     

    Do you feel the extent of training at Orissa Judicial Academy for giving decisions is adequate to meet the real world’s needs?

    The training imparted at the judicial academy is adequate enough to meet the needs presently. Also, during training, we have interactions with judicial officers across India. The problems faced by judicial officers are discussed and the solutions are provided. The academy also provided special training on finger prints, brain mapping, counterfeit currencies, revenue laws etc., which are generally not taught in law schools. Also, we visited parts of Orissa to provide legal literacy to the people. This training helped us discharge our duty more efficiently. After all this, it has become clear to me why it is said that judges are “experts of the expert”.

     

    After the training period, where was your first posting?

    I was first posted as Judicial Magistrate First Class, Cuttack. Within months of my first posting, my court was declared as a Special Court to deal with Negotiable Instruments Act. That experience was immensely enriching. Moreover, there has been a lot of interpretation of provisions of the Negotiable Instruments Act recently by the Honourable Supreme Court. Therefore, one has to be equipped with knowledge of recent judgments and their application. As the negotiable instrument cases are compoundable, I convened many sittings with the complainants and the accused persons for amicable settlement of disputes and dispose of the same in the Lok Adalats.

     

    How has your experience of being a judge been so far?

    A judge’s day starts in court at 10:30 in the morning by going through various registers of the court and maintenance of the diary. A trial court in India has huge pendency of cases and lots of cases are posted each day. In the first hour of the court, the trial judges record the evidence of the witnesses, mark the exhibits etc. In the second hour, generally, we hear the bail matters and arguments. After that, we write judgments. As of experience, it is beyond description. While on the dais, one feels he is doing something for the people, for the country. A lot of people are deprived of their rights, and the judiciary is the last resort for every individual in this country. The faith of the people and the sanctity of this institution should not be compromised in any manner.

     

    What do you think of the Indian judicial system?

    The judicial system in the country is well-balanced and it has provided great judges to this country who have upheld the ideals of the Constitution. However, the infrastructure in the subordinate judiciary is not adequate and needs to be improved. Moreover, a higher budget allocation must be done by the government for the judiciary. Inadequate staff in the subordinate judiciary is also a major concern. Judiciary is one of the four pillars on which our democracy survives and the government needs to address its concerns. Secondly, the All India Judicial Service Exam must become a reality. The All India Judicial Service will foster national integration, improve the tone of judicial administration in the country, attract meritorious persons to judicial services and create confidence among them.

     

    Given a chance to turn back the clock would you have done anything differently from what you’ve done in life?

    A person would do different things given a chance, only if he has regrets about his past. I have no regrets. Every experience in life makes you a better and stronger person.

     

    In the end, what advice would you give to judicial aspirants?

    First of all, one should be honest about the reason for joining the services. Patience and perseverance will help in cracking the exam. In judicial services, you have a restricted life, and a large amount of time is spent in reading extensively, so make up your mind before opting for it.

  • Ashok GV, Managing Partner, CorLit Legal, on pro-bono work and striving for success

    Ashok GV, Managing Partner, CorLit Legal, on pro-bono work and striving for success

    ashok-gv-1Ashok G.V., a graduate from Bangalore Institute of Legal Studies in 2011. He is currently a Managing Partner at Corlit Legal. He is involved in a lot of social work being the Co-Founder at Crisis Prevention and Survivor Support Centre. He has coordinated cross border trade mark litigation in the United State of America. He has also dedicated himself as a Member of the Ethics Committee, Apollo Hospitals, Bangalore.

    In this interview we speak to him about:

    • His time as an undergraduate
    • His pro-bono and humanitarian work
    • His diverse experience

     

    How did you gravitate towards law?

    I always held a keen interest in writing and debating. During my high school days, I spent a large amount of time debating on the UNICEF Voices of Youth Forum on the internet. All that time spent debating issues of socio-economic interest, made me realise that I enjoyed making an argument. Plus, my father, Mr. G.K.V. Murthy, is a very accomplished Advocate practising in the High Court of Karnataka for more than two decades. I had some confusion as to whether I should pursue journalism or law, but seeing the kind of impact my father had in the lives of his clients convinced me that law is where I wanted to be.

     

    Being from BILS, do you think that a non-NLU made any difference to your career?

    I was always particular about my subject, never about the university. Be it BILS or National Law Universities, they all come with their own strengths and opportunities and one has to try and make the best of what one has.

    At BILS, my faculty members were always very encouraging and supportive of all my initiatives. I found a fantastic business partner with whom I could start CorLit Legal in BILS. Plus, it was only because of BILS that I was able to find the latitude to garner practical work experience of close to five years.  If I had to instead spend five years in a NLU, I would have been confined for the most part to campus life, leading to loss of exposure to the real world of law. That five years of work experience, gave me the skills, experience, platform and network necessary to start CorLit Legal along with my partner Sourabh.

    Of course, some of my friends from various National Law Schools managed to go abroad for prestigious moot court competitions and international internships. I might have lost out on those opportunities. So it does not matter. BILS or NLU, you can still do just fine as long as you are willing to define your priorities properly and make decisions you can live with.

     

    How important is mooting and what effect does it have on one’s CV?

    (Ashok has participated in various moot court competitions like the Raj Anand Intellectual Property Moot and the Philip C. Jessup International Law Moot Court.)

    I have always loved litigation. Moot Courts were the only respite in a course that largely emphasises on theory. Participating in Raj Anand Intellectual Property Moot and the Philip C. Jessup International Law Moot Court gave me exposure to IPR and International Law and helped me understand what problems in these fields look like. I learnt how to research well from these competitions, a skill that comes in handy for my career now. However, litigation in real life is far more challenging and stimulating than moot court competitions. I would urge law students to look at moot court competitions as purely a learning exercise.

     

    Tell us about your earlier association with Global Law Inc. and Meta Yage IP Strategy Consulting.

    I have found virtually every field of law interesting. Intellectual Property Rights holds a special place, because my first internship was with an IP Consulting Firm, Meta Yage IP Strategy Consulting. One of my assignments there involved drafting portions of a Patent Application and my work received very encouraging feedback. It was the first time I felt confident that I could make a career for myself in the field of law. I continue to remain very good friends with the folks from Meta Yage.

    After I completed my internship at Meta Yage, I went on to work as a Junior Associate at Global Law Inc. My senior there, Mr. M.S. Srinivasa, is arguably one of the sharpest Indirect Tax Attorneys in the country today. I spent a good eighteen months working under him in the field of Indirect Tax Litigation where I picked up critical skills such as drafting and goal oriented research. But the most prized skill from that experience was learning the extent of clerical work that goes into each case and the amount of diligence required to execute it.

    The diploma course was very insightful as it gave us considerable insights into the practice of Intellectual Property Law. The course was designed beautifully and did not waste any time dwelling into irrelevant things. The legal fraternity would be wise to learn from such courses, to make their own syllabus more useful and relevant to a Law Student’s career.

     

    Tell us about the kind of work you do as the Consulting Partner at Startup Amigo.

    Startup Amigo is a platform designed to advise and assist businesses, from the stage of ideation to the launch of the product or service portfolio. It is the brain child of my good friend, Abhishek Raju who has been one of my biggest sources of support and encouragement since the time I entered law school. In the short span of time since its inception, it has forged impressive partnerships with some of Asia and Europe’s leading management institutions and trade bodies. Its sector specialisation includes Space Technology, Water Resource Management, Health care and Defence Consulting, just to name a few.

    My role as a consulting partner, is to help Startup Amigo’s clients understand the sociological context and regulatory framework which exists in India and to help them evolve customised business strategies for the Indian Market. My engagement includes one on one consulting assignments and delivering lectures on relevant areas of law, during seminars and workshops organised by Startup Amigo and its partner organisations.

     

    What does your role as Managing Partner of Corlit Legal entail?

    CorLit Legal is a full practice law firm with practice areas encompassing Intellectual Property Rights, Taxation, Company Law and Food and Beverage Legislations. Besides Sourabh and I, who are its Founding and Managing Partners, we have six other Advocates with over twenty years of experience who came on board as Domain Partners. Clients are usually referred to us by someone we know. There is no secret to be honest. We have tried to get to know people, for the sake of knowing them and we never spoke to anyone with the intention of seeking any business. If the relationship translates into an Attorney-Client relationship, great! If not, we have managed to make new friends who can teach us something about their field of experience. CorLit Legal was never about the money. It has always been a personal journey to become more relevant and useful to the world we are part of.

     

    You are a part of the Ethics Committee, Apollo Hospitals, Bangalore. What are your primary responsibilities as such?

    The Ethics Committee is a body which reviews proposals for clinical research involving new medicines and therapeutic processes. Its primary duty is to ensure that the subjects who have volunteered for clinical research are adequately protected and ethical considerations surrounding the same are fully addressed. I was appointed primarily on account of my experience in the field of human rights and my responsibility is to inject that perspective into the deliberations of the Committee.

     

    Our readers will also be curious to know about your publications and your love for writing.

    (Ashok is the author of Harmonizing Internal Policy and Trade Mark Law and Losing Focus-An analysis of the Justice Verma Committee Report. You also have your own blog.

    Writing has been a very helpful companion. I don’t even consider it a hobby, because like how I need to breathe, I feel compelled to write. As an amateur writer, I published mainly in a women’s magazine called Eve’s Times, which provided a platform to unknown writers like myself. Writing has been an introspective process for me and largely responsible for all the progress I have made as an individual. No matter how tiring the profession gets or how demanding of my time it is, I will perhaps never give up writing.

     

    How does it feel to be recognized for the social initiatives taken by you?

    First of all, the ethical obligations for a lawyer make it incumbent upon us to devote some time to pro bono activities. Therefore, I wish to clarify that we are doing what we are duty bound to do as Advocates. Sourabh and I always knew that CorLit Legal was going to be a body that would leverage its business law practice, for the purpose of creating a sustainable pro bono program. We were lucky to find Enfold Proactive Health Trust, with whom we have collaborated to work in the field of helping survivors of sexual violence.

    Having said that, the activists that we have worked with, be it at Enfold or Dr. Ravindranath Shanbhag or Sinu Joseph or Ramesh at the Forward Foundation, they are the heroes who deserve recognition because they have gone above and beyond their professions and duties. Many of them in fact are well known and Sinu was even featured on “Chai with Lakshmi” and Ted for her work in the field of Menstrual Hygiene. Our associations with our clients and these activists are the highlight of our work at CorLit Legal. We are happy to support them however we can, although our contribution, when compared to theirs, fares poorly in comparison. As regards the recognition, Sourabh and I could care less whether CorLit is recognised or not. It’s always about the client and the work, and never about us.

     

    How did you get the thought of forming Crisis Prevention and Survivor Support Centre?

    Sexual violence is violence with a lot of power and control dynamics associated with it. After reading the works of John Douglas and Roy Hazelwood, I knew I wanted to do some work in that field and wrote extensively for internet based publications on the same subject. In 2011, we were approached by someone I knew, stating that she was assaulted and being stalked. By that time, I had a friend, Sahu who is a fantastic counsellor. We both worked together in helping the client and she eventually managed to stand up to her perpetrator and successfully warned him off. We later got in touch with Dr. Shaibya Saldanha at Enfold with the idea of creating a platform where survivors of sexual violence can find legal, counselling and medical intervention in one place free of cost. We have been working together since then.

    It is important to temper down our idealism though. India has a fantastic legislative framework, but lacks the infrastructure, manpower and attitude to implement it. The law can always become better; no doubt, but it’s also quite up to the job even now. On the other hand, the attitudes of the people on the ground are more difficult to deal with.  I don’t have any dreams or illusions about being a change maker. For us, it’s just about doing what we can do to make the life of that one survivor a little less anxious and difficult.

     

    Do you take interns for your firm?

    Well given I myself come from a humble academic background, I would go less by a person’s resume and more by the person. I usually have a chat with students who wish to intern and if I think they will be a good fit at CorLit Legal, I would be more than happy to provide a “call back”. The difficulty for us is how we make the intern’s time worthwhile for him or her. When we are dealing with an intern, we are very conscious of our responsibility to ensure they go back feeling less ignorant and more enlightened about the profession. But with so much of time spent at Court, it becomes a difficult process. So if a candidate shows initiative and respect for his or her own time, it would earn him or her, a brownie point for sure.

     

    Where do you see yourself in the long-run?

    I want to teach. Not just law, but perhaps even the humanities. Therefore, higher studies are definitely part of my plan. I joined the profession, only because I felt this experience would make me a better faculty for my students. 10 years from now, I hope to spend more time on research, writing and teaching.

     

    What all do you consider in making strategic career moves?

    I never planned any of my moves nor did I ever strategise. I have a supportive family and I managed to find the right people at the right time by sheer luck, thanks mostly to being at BILS where I found my collaborators at both CorLit Legal and Startup Amigo. Building relationships based on sincerity and mutual respect is the most important goal for any professional, including a lawyer.

     

    What would be your message to our readers who are faced with decisive choices?

    If I have to dish out advice, then do not follow the herd. Make decisions based on your own introspection and not because of someone else’s advice. Have an open mind. Most importantly, don’t succumb to the fear psychosis that tells you to freak out or get left behind the competition. As my good friend Abhishek at Startup Amigo told me, “Collaborate and don’t compete”. Be nice to everyone, for the sake of civility and you will be just fine. Lastly, remember that Law Practice is a humbling experience. It requires endurance and demands resilience. It’s a 24/7 engagement and the situations you encounter can make you feel profoundly ignorant all the time. Therefore, it’s always important to be open to learning and never assume that one is the best at what he or she does.

  • Arshad (Paku) Khan, Exec. Director, Competition Law, Khaitan&Co., on his expertise and building a global practice

    Arshad (Paku) Khan, Exec. Director, Competition Law, Khaitan&Co., on his expertise and building a global practice

    Arshad (Paku) Khan graduated from the Vanderbilt Law School in Nashville, Tennessee, USA in 1991. He is currently the executive director of the competition/antitrust law team of Khaitan & Co, one of the largest and most experienced practices in India. Paku is a highly experienced competition lawyer with nearly 25 years of real-world experience with key roles in all aspects of Indian, EU, Irish and US competition/antitrust law.

    We requested him to share his insights on:

    • Starting out a legal career in the U.S
    • Work at the Irish Competition Authority and other European firms
    • Establishing a new practice area for an Indian law firm

     

    Please tell us a bit about your pre-law life.

    My parents – both of whom have, sadly, passed away – moved to the US in the 1960’s, and that was where I was born, raised, and educated, living there for the first 35 years of my life.

    Nobody in my family was a lawyer – only doctors or scientists. This meant that I had to learn law all by myself, with no one in the family to guide the way. However, my parents supported me by putting an extraordinary premium on education and reading, and that has been tremendously helpful in my career. Since I had no prior knowledge of the law, my mom suggested that I serve as a law firm runner/courier, to gain experience in whatever way possible.  I did that in the US in the late 1980’s. That was loads of fun, and was my first taste of the law.  I was also extremely fortunate to have some mentors early in my career who were fantastic lawyers, fantastic people, and fantastic teachers. This was vital in my early days of being a lawyer in the US, when I graduated in 1991.

     

    What made you gravitate towards a legal career after a degree in Sociology?

    At first, like almost everyone else in my family, I was going to be a doctor. However, in my third year of university, after taking, frankly, a horrible semester of organic chemistry, invertebrate biology, biochemistry, genetics, and neurobiology, I realized that I wasn’t really cut out to be a doctor because I never enjoyed science. On the other hand, subjects like language, history, literature, and other “arts” came naturally to me. My mom always – and very correctly – told me that I was better suited to be a lawyer than a doctor. Changing my career choice, even if it was at the last minute, has been one of my best decisions.

    I guess I can also say that heroes of mine like Mahatma Gandhi and Abraham Lincoln, who were both excellent lawyers, made me think that a career in the law, rather than in medicine, was much more up my alley.

    In terms of competition law (which is referred to as antitrust in the US), I  sort of was selected by it rather than my selecting it.  But when I got involved in the area in a substantive way, I realized that that was something I really loved. After my first year of law school, I clerked/interned at the antitrust law department of a law firm in Nashville, Tennessee.  My boss there was a former senior in the Antitrust Division of the United States Department of Justice, and he was enormously helpful in teaching me the art of being a competition lawyer.  I didn’t know anything about competition law at the time, but really enjoyed reading cases about predatory pricing.  I never knew that companies did such things, me being quite naive!

    After several years of private practice in antitrust, I become an Assistant Attorney General for the State of Tennessee and had a five-year stint as the in-house counsel at a large US bank holding company where I did a great deal of hands-on M&A work. This experience of working in private practice, in-house, and as a regulator, was tremendously beneficial to me. It gave me the ability to see the law from various perspectives (and often these are exceedingly different perspectives). It also gave me an opportunity to learn about how to think on “both sides of the table.”  It’s very important to understand the other side’s thoughts and motivations.

     

    What was your scope of responsibility during the tenure of your work at the Irish Competition Authority?

    It is because of India that I came to Ireland, and it was ultimately because of Ireland that I came to India. Let me explain.

    I had actually wanted to move to India in 1997 after having been a lawyer for six years in the US. I wanted to do what my parents did, when they left India in 1964 to come to the United States. I had basically lived my entire life in the United States, except for visits to my grandparents in Bihar and Kerala, and a few trips to Europe. So, I wanted to see what living overseas was like. In the autumn of 1997, I came to New Delhi and met lawyers from many law firms, went to hear some Supreme Court hearings, talked to legal institutes in New Delhi, and was very close to moving here. However, because my dad got sick, I put those plans on hold.

    A few years later in 2002, one of my friends became a senior member of the Irish Competition Authority in Dublin, Ireland and mentioned to me that they had positions available for lawyers. I had to go to Dublin for a competitive interview, and was lucky enough to finish first in the panel.  So I got an offer from the Irish Competition Authority. I thought I would give it a try for one year and that this would cure the wanderlust that I had.  India frankly dropped off the radar screen for me when I moved to Ireland because I thought I would have a short one year stint in Dublin and then head back to the US.

    That one year became seven years in Ireland. I spent three of those years at the Irish Competition Authority, never having done EU competition law before. However, my experience in US antitrust law helped me make the adjustment reasonably quickly.

    The time at the Irish regulator was a tremendous experience for me. For example, I got front-line experience in dealing with cases on cartels and abuse of dominant positions as well as merger control matters. One of the great highlights of my time at the Irish competition authority was that I served as the Rapporteur for the EU Member States in the European Commission’s 2004 abuse of dominance decision against Microsoft, which was a case that the entire antitrust world (as well as non-lawyers) paid attention to. It was a real career highlight for me. Another really interesting thing I got to do at the Irish Competition Authority was dawn raids. Dawn raids are basically surprise investigations by the regulator. In the context of those investigations (I think I did about 20 or so), I gained experience regarding forensic technology and was appointed as the Irish representative to the EU/national competition authority forensic technology task force.  In today’s day and age, that is an invaluable skill that I was lucky enough to obtain back then.

     

    How different was it to work as a solicitor after working with a government authority?

    (Mr. Khan worked as a senior solicitor at A&L Goodbody.)

    I must say that working in a European law firm in the competition law practice was exceedingly busy.  You had to juggle a lot of matters simultaneously to produce effectively flawless results, both substantially and linguistically, with little time on several cases. It was also a lot of responsibility.  For example, I had one filing before the European Commission on a very well-known merger control matter, namely, Ryanair’s hostile takeover of the Irish flag carrier Aer Lingus.  My colleagues and I worked from 8 AM to 4 AM, Monday to Sunday, for an entire month.  I had to repeat the exercise several times in the case. That clearly taught me the value of time management and of thinking carefully about your case in order to anticipate roadblocks.

     

    Any time management or work-life balance tips for our readers?

    The number one technique that I have for case management is planning ahead as much as possible.  The moment you receive a case or matter, think ahead about every issue that you will confront, from the beginning to the end.  Of course, in many cases, there will be unexpected issues to deal with, that will always arise. There is nothing you can do about those, except deal with them as they come up.  However, if you have visualized in your mind’s eye the case from start to finish, I guarantee that you will always have much better results than merely being bounced around from issue to issue and making things up as you go along.

    In terms of time management, I have never been a believer in putting in “face time” to impress people, either when I was being supervised or when I was supervising.  I’m happy to pull an all-nighter if it’s necessary, and sometimes it is indeed necessary.  However, what I found in my professional career of nearly 25 years is that planning ahead, including planning each day in the morning, is a great way to manage your time.  Many of those all-nighters or even late nighters are really not necessary if you have effective planning and real teamwork and communications with your colleagues.  Some people think the phrase “work smarter, not harder” is silly. I think there is a profound philosophy encapsulated in those words.

    Above all, put your family first.  They are simply irreplaceable.  It is very, very easy to get immersed in work, and forget about your loved ones. But, if your work causes your personal life to suffer, that’s going to have a negative influence on your work.  The work will always be there.

    I am very lucky to be in a firm like Khaitan & Co that values this work-life balance greatly.  Because it is a great place to work, you feel a deep sense of pride in what you do.

     

    What circumstances lead to your move to India?

    I was recruited to come to India in April 2009 by another law firm (Amarchand Mangaldas, where I served as Director of the competition law practice) because portions of the Competition Act were going live in May 2009.  I was living in Dublin, Ireland, when I first got the query about coming to India. When I started realizing the immense potential in India, which was a country where I had always wanted to live, it became obvious that moving to New Delhi was the right move.  I am a big believer in the concept of ‘one world’, and India is an integral part of this global economy.  The chance to be a part of that was an offer I couldn’t refuse.

    I must say that the fun and adventure in moving to India was even more special given that I had to move our family of four (including a newborn).  That was a challenge in its own right!

    In terms of the working environment in India, I have really relished the opportunity of working with some outstanding young lawyers whom I’ve had the privilege of knowing.

     

    What does your role as Executive Director of Competition/Antitrust law at Khaitan & Co. entail?

    As Executive Director of Khaitan & Co’s competition/antitrust practice, my role is to consider how competition law matters in India would be treated under EU and US competition/antitrust laws.  Competition law is very much an international law, and the experience in the US and in Europe has been invaluable to understanding how the Indian competition regime will, can and should work.

     

    How does the Indian Competition Law Regime fare against that of the UK or the USA?

    It’s very important to understand that India is one of the last of the major countries to implement a competition law regime.  Accordingly, India is fortunate to have the “last mover advantage”, as it can look to the mistakes and successes of other jurisdictions to improve its own regime.  Simply stated, there is a large amount of synergy between Indian competition law and the comparable laws in other jurisdictions like the US and EU.  The laws are not identical, but they are more similar than they are different.  There’s a lot of exceedingly useful guidance that can be found that is often very relevant to the Indian regime.

    For example, the United States had its antitrust law in 1890, and the EU has had its competition laws for decades. In contrast, with respect to the Competition Act, 2002 (as amended), the prohibitions in Section 3, dealing with anti-competitive agreements (including cartels) and Section 4, dealing with abuse of a dominant position, have only been in effect for a little more than five years.  Indian merger control has an even shorter lifespan of only three years.  In my view, by any definition, India is still in its infancy with respect to competition law.  However, that’s not a bad thing, because India can take that vast amount of experience in the rest of the world and use that to help fashion the people of India, from the richest to the poorest and from the strongest to the weakest.

    That’s emphatically not to say that what happens in the US or the EU is merely going to be “rubberstamped” in India.  Competition law is much more sophisticated than that.  For example, market conditions in Mumbai are very different than they are in Manhattan or Montevideo.  A good competition lawyer has to consider those market dynamics, apply the law to those facts, and use international precedents in the correct fashion to understand how other jurisdictions have looked at the issue.

     

    What advice would you like to give to a law student who wishes to make a career in competition law?

    There’s absolutely no reason why a new lawyer shouldn’t go right into competition law.  But I think it’s very important to understand that even though the substantive provisions of the Competition Act are very short, the law is incredibly complicated, involving a mix of law, economics, and market conditions.  There is a tremendous amount of artistry that is involved in being a great competition lawyer, as the same set of facts in one industry can result in a totally different outcome in another industry. The key to being a great competition lawyer is understanding what that mix is.

     

    What would be your advice to a law student or young lawyer who is indecisive about their area of specialisation?

    Law students or newly-inducted lawyers should try to immerse themselves in as many areas of law as they can. It first starts in law school, where you have the luxury of learning many different aspects of law.  The reality of the situation, however, is that if you don’t use that knowledge, you lose that knowledge.

    As I stated earlier, I have been lucky enough to have been a private practitioner, in-house counsel, and a regulator in multiple jurisdictions. I’ve had the opportunity to also do complex litigation and M&A work. All of those experiences have been important to my career.

    To be a great lawyer, you need to be a great peacemaker and find a way to bring resolution and closure.  The experience you get from being knocked down by mistakes, and facing defeat but learning from them and rising to fight yet again, is essential and is something you only get over time.  These, to me, are the hallmarks of a lawyer who will indeed go far.

     

    Finally, what would be your parting message to our readers?

    You must love what you are doing.  It is as simple as that. Money and fame are things that may or may not follow you in this life; however, none of those things are worth anything if you don’t love what you do. The fact of the matter is that I love being a lawyer. I sort of fell into the profession by happenstance, and it was one of the very best things that could’ve ever happened to me.

    I like to fix things that are broken, and I like to see injustices cured.  I like to be deeply involved in my matters and try to treat each matter as if it were my own. Taking ownership of a matter and treating as if it were your own, and being sensitive to a client’s needs, will take you a very long way.

     

  • Pranjit Bhattacharya, Law Graduate, Bangalore Institute of Legal Studies, on mooting, securing top-notch internships and a PPO from Trilegal

    Pranjit Bhattacharya, Law Graduate, Bangalore Institute of Legal Studies, on mooting, securing top-notch internships and a PPO from Trilegal

    Pranjit Bhattacharya graduated from Bangalore Institute of Legal Studies in 2015. He also holds a diploma in Entrepreneurship Administration and Business Laws from NUJS, Kolkata. Pranjit received a PPO from Trilegal in his fourth year of law school.

    In this interview we speak to him about:

    • Mooting and its benefits for a law student
    • Preparing a C.V. and insides of personal interview with tier-1 law firm; and
    • Securing top-notch law firm internships

     

    Tell us a bit about your life before college?

    I have been lucky to grow up in the beautiful picturesque city of Shillong. I did my 12th from St. Anthony’s Hr. Sec. School, Shillong. I have a twin brother who is also, doing law from the Faculty of Law, Delhi University. That is as far as law runs in my family. A better part of our schooling was devoted to debating at various inter-school events. Studying at a school where great emphasis was given to extra-curricular activities helped me immensely.

     

    Why did you decide to study law?

    I think it was a de facto choice really. I opted for Commerce during my 12th so chances of pursuing Engineering and Medicine were negated pretty early (much to the dismay of my family). I wanted to pursue something that would give me a rush, a discipline that challenged one’s ability to reason – what better than ‘law’ in that case. I am really passionate about law actually.

     

    How practical do you think are the shows like The Practice, J.A.G., Boston Legal, Suits, etc. and movies like 12 Angry Men, Philadelphia, etc.?

    To be honest, if soap operas were to show the life at a law firm as it transpires on a daily basis –most people would shrug at the very thought of watching it. There is a reason why such shows are meant for entertainment and so, they should be. It would be really naive to be goaded to believe that this is how the legal profession works on the basis of such shows.

    Although, I think there are quite a few good English movies which manage to captivate the essence of law practice quite beautifully. A Few Good Men, To Kill a Mockingbird and 12 Angry Men are my personal favourites.

     

    How did you secure internships with top tier firms?

    It is important to plan your internships well. At the beginning of each semester I prepared a list of firms that I wanted to intern with. Applying well in advance and setting out the period of internship clearly are recommended. Given that most firms have their own internship application procedure; it is advisable to confirm the same with the HR at the firm prior to sending an application.

     

    pranjit-bhattacharya-1

    Did you pursue your internships throughout law school as part of a deliberate plan or did it all just happen by chance?

    I think I had planned it out fairly well. Almost every semester I knew precisely the kind of internships I was looking at. So in my first and second year I interned at The Hindu Newspaper Publications and under an Advocate at Calcutta High Court (who is presently, a Judge in that Court). Thereafter, I moved to a mid-sized law firm, CorLit Legal for three months during my third year. This was a very enriching experience actually. The kind of exposure I was given at this firm formed the bedrock for my future internships.

    Since, the end of third year my internships were part of a well-thought out plan. So at the end of my third year, I interned at Nishith Desai Associates. Then in fourth year I interned at Trilegal (twice) and at the Law Chambers of International Tax jurist Mr. Soli Dastur, Senior Advocate, Supreme Court of India.

    Unfortunately, there exists a wide gulf between law school education and the work at a law firm. It entails a sound knowledge of different business models; latest regulations / notifications, etc. in different fields of law; market precedents on certain transaction that the firm proposes to undertake in the future; business risks inherent in a particular transaction and the like. In this regard, law school education is woefully deficient in investing the students with the knowledge to deal with such practical aspects of law.

     

    What kind of work did you have to do during your internships?

    It varied according to the place. Drafting client opinions, due diligence, research on multifarious aspects of law, comparative analysis of certain laws in India and other countries, etc. were the major tasks that I was assigned.

    A couple of them actually. On the last day of my first internship with Trilegal, a Senior Associate offered me a second internship at the firm and then said with a smile, “Remember always that there are plenty of good lawyers, but not many good lawyers who are good guys. So do not forget to be a good guy”. This is something I have tried to hold onto ever since.

    Then, on one occasion during my internship with Mr. Dastur, me and my co-intern were working past midnight, so while leaving he quoted Henry Longfellow’s famous words with a beaming smile, “The heights by great men reached and kept were not attained by sudden flight, but they, while their companions slept were toiling upward in the night”. This continues to remain the fondest and most cherished memory of all my internships.

     

    What do you have to say about students interning at law firms  all through their undergrad years?

    Law School life is all about exploring different avenues, particularly, in the first couple of years. Choices to intern exclusively at a law firm right from the start of law school defeats this very purpose. It necessarily means that you shut your mind to other avenues that may be more suited to your acumen and ability. It also, undermines the significance of good litigation internships which unravel the possibility of engaging with some of the best minds in the legal profession and leaves an indelible influence in your career.

    It is quintessential for your wholesome development as a lawyer to understand a particular fact situation from different perspectives. Diverse internship experiences help you acquire this. Thus, even though you may be pre-meditated that you want to work at a law firm in the future, it is advisable to pursue at least a couple of non-legal or socio-legal internships prior to law firm internships.

     

    Tell us about being a member at  multiple committees while in college.

    I have been a member of the Moot Court Committee at college since, the first year of law school. And for some time I was also, involved with the Literary and Placement Committees. I think they enhance your networking and communication skills and organizational ability. In my college though, these Committees are limited both in terms of, activities and impact.

    I was also, a member of an Expert Panel Study on Access to Healthcare in India by IIM-Bangalore and University of St. Gallen, Sweden. The forum involved participants from diverse disciplines of different age and influence. The entire process was immensely rewarding in terms of, quality of interaction, sharing of ideas, discussion on business strategies, etc.

     

    Have you felt strongly about social causes?

    I would be lying if I said no. So I tried to strike a balance between my objectives of working with a law firm and pitching in with some pro-bono work as well.

    During my fourth year, I worked as a Research Assistant for Mrs. Nina Nayak, eminent social activist and former Chairperson, KSCPCR and Member, NCPCR on her book on the National Commission for Protection of Child Rights Act, 2005.And I have already mentioned earlier, about my stint with the Expert Panel at IIM-Bangalore.

    Both these opportunities gave me a deeper understanding of the policy paralysis and administrative complacence that pervades our system and the critical role that society needs to play in eliminating the same.

     

    Tell us how important is mooting and what effect does it have on one’s CV?

    (Pranjit has participated in various moot court competitions like Nani Palkhivala Tax Moot, Surana Corporate Moot, NLS Arbitration.)

    At the outset, if you are doing a moot court competition for CV value only then, according to me it is a futile exercise. Mooting is a passion and that is what should drive an individual’s decision to moot or not to moot. This is one experience at law school that I encourage everybody to undertake.

    I started mooting since the very first year of law school. My first moot was on Constitutional Law, organised by Amity University, Rajasthan in which we were the semi-finalists and eventually, adjudged as the ‘Third Best Team’. This moot was my first tryst with law and the romance has continued ever since. My best experience was at Nani Palkhivala Moot Court Competition where incidentally, I was also, the Second Best Speaker.  It ignited in me a passion for Taxation Law that I have pursued keenly ever since.

    Whether it adds value to your CV or not, I cannot opine on it definitively. However, this is the best way to harness your reasoning ability, research skills and ability to make arguments. In fact, most reputed Moots are based on emerging or grey areas of a subject, or sometimes even transactions that are making the news. So the influence of good Moots is all pervasive. I think this may be a reason why law firms may view participation at various Moot Court Competitions quite favourably.

     

    Tell us about the significance of pursuing courses such as Introduction to M & A and NUJS Online Diploma in Entrepreneurship Administration and Business Laws.

    My internships drove me towards this decision to pursue such courses. They made me realise that there are certain practical aspects of law that the academic curriculum fails to address. The problem is accentuated in case of Universities where little or no emphasis is given to acquiring practical skills pertinent for excelling at law practice.

    It is important to know the academic aspect of law, true; but it is also, essential to be skilled at applying it. This is precisely the purpose such courses serve; they equip you with the right kind of skills that help you deal with practical nuances critical for a lawyer.

     

     

    How was your internship experience with Trilegal?

    I interned only once at Trilegal before I secured a PPO. Post my PPO I again interned there. Trilegal has a pro-active mentorship program, whereby, every intern at the firm is placed under a mentor who assesses an intern’s development through the internship. This is definitely, one thing which in my view sets Trilegal apart. And then, the Associate like experience at the firm and the quality of work allotted to interns. In my second internship, I was made to work on two live transactions. These experiences make it worthwhile to intern at such a place.

     

    What are the things you consider sine qua non for positive feedback from an internship?

    I do not believe that there is a hard and fast rule to get a ‘callback’ or a ‘PPO’ for that matter.  Certain things that I believe can trigger a positive feedback is the level of enthusiasm and initiative one shows towards the work assigned like explaining clearly your research to the person concerned and then engaging in a discussion on the same. Also, never hesitate to ask questions even if they appear to be a little stupid. You can prove otherwise, with the quality of your work based on the insights you gain by asking the right questions. These things help you inspire confidence in the members of the firm.

     

    Did you have to undergo an interview before securing your PPO?

    Yes I was interviewed for a PPO. It is an interesting story actually. After my internship at Trilegal, I had gone down to Mumbai for an internship at the Law Chambers of International Tax jurist Soli E. Dastur, Senior Advocate. One evening I received a call from Trilegal, Mumbai that a PPO interview has been scheduled for the next day and candidates would be interviewed over Skype. As I was in Mumbai, I suggested that I would like to come down to their office which they were glad to accept.  I had to request Mr. Dastur for a leave for the next day. My last thought while going off to sleep that night was, “I need to wake up early, be presentable and just show up on time. Rest is up to providence.”

    An initial predicament was to introduce myself to the interviewers because they had never heard of my college. And frankly since, I had never undergone any formal training to tackle interviews, I am personally of the opinion that it is all about presence of mind. Interviews are an opportunity to test your ability to think on your feet. It is also, absolutely vital for you to know your CV inside out. Moreover, a sound grasp of interesting developments in the field of politics, law, economics and general knowledge is essential to ace a law firm interview / or any interview for that matter.

    There are certain pre-requisites of preparing a good CV and any departure from it is unacceptable. The importance of a structured and properly formatted CV without any spelling or grammatical errors can hardly be over-emphasized. What is important is to communicate about four-five years of your activities at law school in two-three pages. The skill sets that you have acquired during your time at law school should be adequately reflected in your CV. Moreover, it is essential to have a tailor-made CV based on the firm /company / any other organisation in which you are seeking a position.

     

    How important according to you is CGPAs in securing a job?

    Let me answer your question in two segments. There is a significant difference between the law school curriculum administered at some of the top NLUs and certain other top ranked law colleges and those administered at colleges affiliated to State Universities.

    The curriculum designed for the NLUs and some other top ranked college reflect a significant thought process to ensure that the academic aspect of law is not divorced from its practice – whether at a law firm / litigation, etc. Despite this concerted effort, there has been a brewing discontent among the legal fraternity that there still remains a wide cleavage between the two aspects. Hence, judging the ability of a student exclusively on the basis of his CGPA is inherently flawed. On the other hand, the curriculum of most of the State Universities is archaic and reflects absolute non-application of mind on the part of the authorities responsible for formulation and evaluation of the entire course.

    So while some credibility can still be attached to the system of evaluating the student in the former case; the latter is a mockery of the ability of students. In all fairness, I have been an average scorer throughout law school and that has in no way hindered my prospects. Having said that the value of a decent CGPA can hardly be discounted because all said and done, every interviewer needs a benchmark against which your ability has to be judged.

     

    What should one law student aspiring for a job at top law firms do?

    The process starts right from your first year. I devoted the first three years of my law school in developing diverse skill sets acquired through academic knowledge, various internships, Moot Court competitions and such other activities at law school. The last two years have so far, reaped me the dividends of my investments in the first three years. So the last two years should be spent interning at the right kind of places keeping two things in mind; first, identifying the practice areas that interests you and second, a place that has a reasonable likelihood of absorbing you into the organisation post your internship through a ‘PPO’ or Campus Placement.

     

    Where do you see yourself five years from now? Would you consider going for an LL.M. abroad?

    I think my goals are more short-term in terms of where I would like to see myself at some point in the future. I still have about a year to go at Law School so as of now I am quite enjoying my time under the sun. But yes, I would definitely want to author a book on any aspect of law; may be in five years’ time that is one thing I would be glad to have accomplished.

    I am quite keen on an LLM from abroad, more for the profound experience that it proffers than anything else.

     

    You being from BILS, do you think that being from a non-NLU made any difference?

    Well, to say that it did not make a difference would be both unwise and inaccurate at the same time. In certain ways, opportunities were in fact, fewer and far between. But then, again may be that was something that motivated me to make the most of limited opportunities. Since, I did not undergo the rigours of a National Law University; the endeavour always was to put myself through a process that ensured I was on par with the products of NLUs. And yes, I had the added advantage of customizing the entire process according to my requirements unlike an NLU where there is already a pre-designed system to which you need to adapt.

     

    Lastly, what would be your message to our readers?

    “The future belongs to those who believe in the beauty of their dreams”. -Eleanor Roosevelt

    So, keep calm and read SuperLawyer!

  • Nivedita Guha, Consultant, UNICEF, on human rights law, child protection services, and her experience

    Nivedita Guha, Consultant, UNICEF, on human rights law, child protection services, and her experience

    Nivedita Guha graduated in law from CLC, Delhi University, in 2009. Thereafter she pursued her LL.M. from NLU, Jodhpur. She has been involved in a lot of socio-legal work in multiple non-profit organisations. She has worked at HelpAge, Kalyan Ashram, MARG, HRLN and currently she is working at UNICEF.

    In this interview we speak to her about:

    • Pursuing LL.M from NLU, Jodhpur in furtherance to a career in social work
    • Work at different domestic NPOs and at UNICEF
    • Advice to students who want to pursue a career in Human Rights

    How will you introduce yourself to our readers?

    I am a human rights lawyer presently working as a Consultant with the UNICEF office, West Bengal. My area of interest is child protection and women’s rights. Work is my favourite pastime and I believe it is very important to do what you love and not fall prey to the conventional way of life, satisfying societal standards.

     

    How did you gravitate towards law?

    My grandfather was an Income tax lawyer practicing in the Calcutta High Court. I was in awe of him. I was brought up in Chandigarh and as a kid when I used to visit him in Kolkata during my summer vacations, I used to minutely notice the way he talked. His command over language was impeccable. I used to spend hours flipping through the legal journals stocked in his big law library. His personality had a deep impact in my formative years which I think later instilled the desire to pursue the legal profession in me.

     

    Do you think that being from a non-NLU made any difference to your career?

    It did not make any difference to me as I was always inclined to work on humanitarian issues and since human rights law is a very unconventional area of law, I always knew that I will have to carve my own way. There are ample job opportunities for corporate lawyers with companies and firms offering good pay packages to them but human rights law is a less sought after area and it was a struggle to choose the right career path. I do not think my struggle would have lessened if I was an NLU graduate.

     

    How was your experience at HRLN, Kolkata?

    After I left my job in MARG, Delhi, I was looking for jobs in Delhi and Kolkata. A cousin of mine informed me about the vacancy at Human Rights Law Network, Kolkata and I immediately applied for the position. I was called for an interview, I appeared and was selected.

    My work at HRLN involved defending the rights of the victims of domestic violence by filing cases under the Protection of Women from the Domestic Violence Act, 2005, defending the Juveniles-in-conflict-with-law in the legal cases in the Juvenile Justice Boards, I have been in-charge of the Prison Project in HRLN where providing legal aid to the inmates in the prison, parallel to the state machinery, maintaining effective collaboration with the relevant government departments like the Department of Correctional administration has been an integral part of my work. Issues like no physical production of prisoners before the courts, illegal detention of the inmates in Section 107 and 109 of the Criminal Procedure Code 1973 cases in the prisons, inhuman prison infrastructure, improvement of the condition of women and their children in the prisons are some of the issues which have been addressed through fact finding, research and litigation during my tenure in HRLN. I have also trained police officials on the Juvenile Justice (Care & Protection of Children) Act, 2000 and the Protection of Children from Sexual offences Act, 2012.

    Working in HRLN for three years was very enriching. Though one has to put up with lot of difficulties while working in an organisation solely run by lawyers as administration is not their forte but HRLN surely knows how to extract the best from you and the experience one gains is worth all the struggles.

     

    What was your motivation behind pursuing LL.M.?

    Once I was sure that criminal justice system is my area of work, I immediately started looking for courses on this area of law. I was looking for distance learning courses as I did not want to leave my job and LL.M. in Criminal law, Criminology & Forensic Science at NLU Jodhpur seemed like a very good option. LL.M. from foreign university is there in my mind but only after few more years of work experience.

     

    What brought you into Human Rights?

    Not any incident but the character of Atticus Finch in the book, To Kill a Mockingbird by Harper Lee inspired me greatly. Atticus Finch is a white American lawyer who defended a black man who was falsely accused of raping a white woman. He fought for racial inequality during the times of apartheid in America. His character, integrity and principles inspired me greatly.

     

    What inspired you to work with MARG and how did you go about applying to them?

    MARG was my first job after completing LL.B. and I was working there as a legal trainer. I did an internship with MARG as a law student and after I completed LL.B., they approached me for this role which I gladly accepted.

    My work primarily involved training grass root level NGO workers on various important laws in the States of Bihar, UP and Jharkhand.

     

    What has been your most memorable incident working for these Non-Profit Organizations?

    While I was working in MARG in Delhi, I was on a field trip at a village in Haryana. It was a legal empowerment program and I was assisting my senior in sensitising the women of the area to get trained as paralegal volunteers. During the visit, I noticed that in almost every household I went, I met a woman wearing the traditional red and white bangles which is a sign of a married woman in Bengal. They all spoke fluent Bengali and I was told that their parents live in West Bengal and most of them were from the Sundarban area. They were all married to the families in that village of Haryana. I was perplexed as I did not understand the reason why women from the interiors of Bengal will be married to Jats of Haryana. Soon these women cleared my doubts and very explicitly told me that their families in Bengal were poverty stricken and their in-laws in Haryana are providing for their families in Bengal. So basically, by marrying, they are helping their family back home in getting food to eat and also to live a comfortable life. There is a dearth of girls in Haryana so the families in Haryana go searching for brides in Bengal alluring the families of brides with money.

    I was shell shocked to witness the vicious cycle of atrocity occurring so flagrantly. It was my first stint with reality and concept of cross cutting issues. It was an eye opener.

     

    What is it like working for an International Organization like UNICEF?

    It has been absolutely amazing to work in UNICEF as working with organisations like UNICEF widens your horizon as you are no longer look at resolving individual cases but you are thinking about the larger picture. I feel more responsible as I know that my work will now impact the masses and not just two or three people. It is also the first time that I am working with the government as UNICEF is a partner of the Ministry of Women and Child Development and I have to work very closely with the Department of Child Development, Women Development and Social Welfare in West Bengal. It is a very different experience from working with NGOs.

    It has only been four months that I am working in UNICEF, I can handle the stress till now.

     

    Do you think remuneration is a serious impediment to such work?

    Anyone who needs a “higher pay package”, should not even think of getting into the development sector because when you decide to get into this sector, it is not money which drives you but a desire and passion to connect to the masses and serve the people. Yes, initially money is a serious impediment in this field.

     

    Where do you suggest one can intern or apply for an opportunity if she is interested in working for Human Rights issues?

    For lawyers or law students, Human Rights Law Network and Lawyer’s Collective are great organisations to work and learn. The summer and winter internship program in National Human Rights Commission is also very good. Amnesty International India is also a good place to learn and grow.

     

    What is the best possible course of action for a law student who aspires to work for international non- profit organizations?

    I would advise students to involve themselves in various humanitarian causes like by volunteering or interning with NGOs and groups working on human rights issues. This way one understands if working on humanitarian issues is their true calling or not. Thereafter, they should focus on understanding issues and think how as a lawyer they can contribute for that particular issue.

    If one is specifically eyeing for international organisations than a foreign degree might help and one has to keep an eye on international vacancies and opportunities but what I have learnt from experience is that the most important thing is your ability to understand issues and build skills to intervene as a lawyer and activist, which is possible only by working extensively in the field.

     

    Where do you see yourself by the end of the coming five years?

    For the next three years I am solely focusing on my work at UNICEF. I want to complete the work assigned to me successfully. Thereafter, I would want to pursue higher studies abroad.

     

    Lastly, what would be your message to people who want to have a career in human rights?

    Please do not opt for a career in human rights because you feel it is glamorous to be working in a NGO or United Nations or any other international organisation. There is much much more to it. One has to survive the initial grill with lot of patience and perseverance but if you are driven by the right reason primarily the desire to serve, it will be worth it. Reiterating, the need for a passion to serve does not necessarily means to work without money but when you are passionate to serve you will understand the importance of what you are doing and the great impact it makes.

  • Ratan Singh, Director, Chartered Institute of Arbitrators, on being an International Arbitrator, expertise in Mining Law and his practice at Delhi HC

    Ratan Singh, Director, Chartered Institute of Arbitrators, on being an International Arbitrator, expertise in Mining Law and his practice at Delhi HC

    Mr. Ratan K. Singh graduated from Delhi University, batch of 1996. He is currently the Director of Chartered Institute of Arbitrators (India). His practice mainly consists of International and Domestic Arbitration, International Commercial and Financial Law, Mining Law, Construction and Infrastructure Law, Environmental Law, Constitutional and Administrative Law.

    In this interview we speak to him about:

    • Building up a firm clientele
    • Serving as an arbitrator in various domestic and international arbitrations
    • Being the Director of CIArb India and a career in Arbitration

     

    Please tell us what motivated you to pursue legal studies.

    I somehow felt that my personality, nature and approach towards life would go well with this profession and intuitively decided to pursue legal studies. I strongly believe that it should really come from within and there should be a strong urge for the profession. If you believe in “giving”, this is the most appropriate profession. However these days the importance of “giving” is increasingly being ignored.

     

    What were your plans after graduation?

    I did M.Sc. in Geology before I joined LL.B. As I was university rank holder in Geology, I could have easily become Geologist, however this is not what I wanted to do. I always wanted to be a lawyer. It is another thing that my background in Geology is helping me in my Mining Law practice and I am one of the very few lawyers in country who specialises in mining law and is regularly engaged. Civil Services was never my interest and choice, though in our days every second student used to aspire for Civil Services.

     

    As a fresher just out of college, how did you manage to get a mentor for yourself?

    [sociallocker] After I passed out from my law school, I went to meet many lawyers, including some of them, who at later stage of my career have developed lots of affection and respect for me, but got no chance. I was helped by one of my batch-mates, who was close to one of our law teachers. The said gentlemen took me to my first and only senior (who later became Senior Advocate and Judge in Delhi High Court) with whom I worked for around four and half years.

    This is one profession, one cannot do without a mentor/senior/guide. This is primarily for the reason that lots of procedural and professional aspects are to be learnt. Had this not been so, this practice of pupillage would not have continued for centuries.

    My emphasis however would be that it is of utmost importance to have a mentor who is hard working and honest. One sub – consciously or consciously learns, what he sees in his mentor/senior.

     

    How did you build up on your client base?

    I was a complete outsider in Delhi but I never had any problem in getting work. During my four and half years with my senior, I was completely focused on learning and made no effort at all to find any work for myself.

    When I became independent, all my cases came from and through lawyer friends of my senior, who had seen me working in my senior’s chamber. They were somehow impressed with my hard work and academic interest in the subject. For a lawyer who believes in hard work and honesty, their lawyer colleagues are always a big source of work. There has always been a dearth of hard working lawyers as more and more lawyers who believe in short-cuts etc manage to generate work but they too need lawyers who can really work on the file. Every single law office/chamber and law-firm is always looking for a hard working, honest and trained lawyer.

    What is needed is four and half years to five years of focused learning without thinking about gaining clients and client-base and see the result thereafter. You will always have more work than you can really handle.

     

    What do you look for in your interns when they apply for a position to work with you?

    I look for sincerity and honesty towards work. It is also important that he/she should be reasonably good in their expressions. Anybody who wishes to intern with my office has to send his/her bio-data to the office-in-charge and they get a call, depending on availability of vacancy for interns.

     

    What do you think about the future of legal education in India?

    Lawyers are always needed and will always be needed. People need lawyers in booms and busts alike.

     

    How is the work atmosphere at the Delhi High Court presently?

    I would rate Delhi High Court as the best High Court in the country for more than one reason. It is no doubt true that more and more national law universities and private five year law colleges/universities are producing more and more law graduates. These national law universities have also brought good improvement in the quality of law education (though a lot needs improvement, particularly the quality of law teachers). However it is easy to become a successful lawyer. The only attributes needed are hard-work, honesty and the willingness and urge to give. I see lots of law graduates with good academic background and good potential spoiling themselves because they lack either of these three most fundamental attributes, i.e hard-work, honesty and the willingness and urge to give.

     

    If someone does not go to a top law school, would you say he still has a shot at a great career in law?

    Yes, if one is ready to work hard (around twelve to fourteen hours a day) and is honest towards his office, profession and client, they are bound to be successful lawyers. They are unstoppable. To the contrary, if someone has passed out from a top law school and lacks any of the above mentioned three attributes (i.e hard-work, honesty and the willingness and urge to give), they are likely to fail.

     

    How has your journey been from a fresher to being an expert in arbitration?

    (Mr. Singh has served as an arbitrator and has chaired as a tribunal member or counsel in various domestic and international arbitrations, ad-hoc as well as under the rules of ICC, UNCITRAL, SIAC, ICA, DIAC etc.)

    I followed Arbitration and Conciliation Act, 1996 since its inception. Traditionally in India, there have been two categories of lawyers who have been practicing arbitration. One category is of those lawyers, who have not been in active litigation, though pursued arbitration (mainly from big law firms). Second category comprises of those lawyers, who are only in litigation and off and on doing arbitration, without having basic knowledge of arbitration as a subject. I wanted to bridge this gap. In order to be a good arbitration professional, it is important to have good litigation exposure and experience with substantial experience of cross examination etc. I have been a hard-core litigator with passion for arbitration since the beginning of my career. I have been taking a keen and active interest in the theoretical and philosophical aspects of arbitration, both domestic and international. I have also been attending domestic and international arbitration events as a speaker and delegate.

    Anybody having interest in arbitration should follow the developments in developed arbitration jurisdictions, including UK, USA, Australia, Singapore, Hong Kong, France, Germany, Austria, Netherlands. It is also important to follow arbitration institutions of repute, like Chartered Institute of Arbitrators, UK (of which I am Director of India Branch), ICC, ICCA, SIAC, PCA, ICSID, SIAC, HKIAC, KLRCA, SCC, IBA. Chartered Institute of Arbitrators has on its web-site has made freely available various resources, guidelines etc, which are used and referred to globally. Equally important is to attend arbitration conferences, seminars etc. I would also strongly recommend to follow Kluwer Arbitration Blog.

     

    Can you tell us how you got the opportunity to be an arbitrator?

    (Mr. Singh has been appearing as a counsel in various Asian and European countries.)

    Once people get to know your interest in arbitration or for that matter in any other field of law, you are followed and eventually engaged. I get nominations to sit as an arbitrator as people find me as someone with interest and experience in arbitration. In order to get nomination as an arbitrator, one must enjoy a good reputation. These days, lawyers are increasingly nominated to act as an arbitrator, as it is believed that they are more and more ready to learn and prove themselves.

     

    What are your major responsibilities as a director of the Chartered Institute of Arbitrators, London?

    As director, I am primarily involved, with my co-directors, in policy making for the institution. CIArb is the oldest arbitration institution in world. We are celebrating 100th year of the institution this year. CIarb has members in around 120 countries. This is the only institution in world, which gives accreditation to arbitrators. CIArb also gives accreditation to arbitration tutors. No amount of subscription can get you accreditation. One gets accreditation only by qualification and experience. We conduct training programmes, awareness programmes, conferences etc for lawyers, arbitrators, law students etc. Apart from accredited arbitrator, I am also an accredited tutor. Teaching and speaking on arbitration is one of my passions and interests and this makes me participate in almost all events of CIArb.

     

    Are there any Indian or International courses which you would recommend for law students who would like to build a career in arbitration?

    I will recommend students to follow CIArb courses and training programmes. Apart from law schools, groups of students (around 25 students) can approach us and we (CIArb, India Branch) can conduct courses for them. Such courses can lead to accreditation from CIArb.

     

    What should a law graduate do in his first year of graduation to establish a career in arbitration?

    First things first, learn by heart and mind bare act of Arbitration and Conciliation Act, 1996. Also go through bare acts of at least U.K and Singapore. In addition, UNCITRAL MODEL LAW and UNCITRAL Rules should also be necessarily gone into.

    Arbitration act of U.K. is broadly modelled on UNCITRAL Model law, which is a source of the Indian Act as well.The  benefit one gets by reading UK act is that it is more detailed and is a fantastic source for better understanding of the subject. Singapore has different acts for domestic and international arbitration and by consulting these two acts from same jurisdiction, one would understand the aspect of distinctions for domestic and international arbitration. London is called Mecca for international arbitration. Similarly, Singapore can be said to be Mecca for South Asian countries. Substantial (obviously not all) number of arbitrations, having Indian connection, are generally held in London or Singapore. Therefore it would be wise to follow arbitrations and arbitration laws in these two jurisdictions.

    I also recommend every arbitration student to read and consult rules of institutions like, ICC, SIAC, SCC, UNCITRAL, LCIA. One must remember that ICC is the most sought after Institutional rules for international arbitration.

    Website of UNCITRAL is another good treasure for resources. One must read CLOUT, i.e. the digest of case laws from different MODEL Law jurisdictions. These cases help in understanding the manner in which model law or domestic laws based on model law are interpreted in different jurisdictions.

    Last but not the least, one must buy and read Student edition of book authored by Redfren Hunter. In addition, consult any book (which should not be going into more than one volume) on Indian Arbitration Act. One should simultaneously follow Indian and International arbitration.

     

    What would you like to say about the current state of Arbitration Law in India?

    In recent past, we have seen good forward looking judgments written by Supreme Court of India. Very soon, we are likely to have substantially amended Arbitration Act. Law Commission has suggested substantial and progressive amendments. Though India is signatory to good number of BITs and already facing serious threats of lots of Investment claims, India is not a signatory to ICSID. In February, I had long meeting with Secretary General of ICSID at their Headquarters in Washinton DC and I strongly believe that it would be in the interest of India to become a signatory to ICSID. One change, which I think can take care of many odds in India, should be to have Commercial Courts in India.

     

    What would be your advice on setting up a career in arbitration to law students who are still studying?

    Around eight out of ten commercial contracts in India have an arbitration clause as a dispute resolution mechanism. So far as International commercial transactions are concerned, almost all of them have an arbitration clause. This by itself tells us that arbitration is a fantastic career option for law students.
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