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  • Vini Singh, Advocate, on being a Company Secretary, studying in London, and taking the Judicial Services

    Vini Singh, Advocate, on being a Company Secretary, studying in London, and taking the Judicial Services

    Vini Singh graduated from HNLU, Raipur, in 2012. She then went on to pursue her Masters from UCL. During her time as an undergraduate she has interned in the Chambers of Mr. P.S. Koshy, Multiple Action Research Group – MARG, been a Judicial Clerk to Justice S.K. Sinha, High Court of Chhattisgarh, interned at Chambers of Mr. Shanti Bhushan, Sr. Advocate, Supreme Court of India, Chambers of Mr. K.T.S. Tulsi, Sr. Advocate, Supreme Court of India, Chambers of Mr. K.K. Venugopal, AZB & Partners, and AMSS. She is also a Company Secretary. 

    In this interview we speak to her about:

    • Getting an LL.M. from UC, London
    • Being a Company Secretary
    • Taking the Chattisgarh Judicial Exam

    Tell us about your life before college.

    I did most of my schooling from Indore except for the final three years which I completed in Raipur since my family had moved here. I was a science student and very keen on becoming a doctor like my father. After I finished my schooling, I took a year off to prepare for pre-medical exams and appeared for many of them at the end of that year. Never in my dreams had I thought of choosing law as a career, but a few of my friends convinced me that I should have a back up plan and there was no harm in giving an entrance exam. So I filled up the entrance exam form for HNLU and appeared for the exam with just two weeks preparation. To my surprise, more than 50% of the question paper contained exactly what I had studied, and not only did I clear the exams, I secured 4th rank as well.

    Meanwhile, I was also offered a seat in a medical college, but since their sessions start late, I decided to give HNLU a go. I attended classes for almost a month and it would be wrong to say that I chose law; I would rather say that law chose me.

     

    How will you describe your college life?

    My college life was a lot of fun. I had a great group of friends, we studied together, went on a lot of trips, celebrated birthdays and festivals, occasionally played badminton etc. Apart from academics, I participated in a few activities and competitions organised by various committees, helped organise conferences as a part of legal and social services committee and worked for the library and academic committee.

     

    vini-singh2How would you say a student can go about studying and having distinction in a few subjects?

    (Vini has bagged gold medals in Constitutional Law, Economics and Political Science. These are invariably some of the most lengthiest and difficult papers.)

    I am someone who has never adopted a certain strategy to tackle coursework or a gain a certain percentage of marks. I would say that I was able to do well academically only because I really wanted to learn. If I found something worth a read I went for it, irrespective of the fact whether it was prescribed material or not, which is why I ended up reading a lot of additional stuff such as Plato’s allegory of the cave or Dworkin’s Law’s Empire. All this additional reading eventually helped me a bag outstanding grades and those gold medals.

     

    How was your experience interning with SC lawyers?

    (Vini has worked as an intern for two great SC lawyers – Mr. Shanthi Bhushan and Mr. KTS Tulsi.)

    It was great working with such eminent SC lawyers, both internships gave me an opportunity to closely observe the pros and cons of litigation as a career choice. Mr. Bhushan is very approachable; one can discuss anything with him right down from movies to politics to any complicated legal question. My internship with Mr. Tulsi was even better because I got to work on not only criminal cases but also on arbitration matters and I also learned a lot from his team. I was placed with Mr. Bhushan by our Internship Coordination Committee, so I just had to send my resume to him for securing the internship. I applied to Mr. Tulsi’s office personally by approaching one of his juniors and requesting him to give me an internship opportunity.

     

    What did your work at AZB & Partners entail?

    Working with AZB Partners was a really good experience. I got work on a variety of matters since they do not assign interns to a particular team. So, if my morning began with say a research on FEMA, my night ended with verifying documents for an arbitration matter. However, as I was really interested in Competition law, I took initiative and more often than not sought work from that team. They were filing the then recently introduced Form I of the Combination Regulations at that time and I learnt a lot while working with them.

     

    What inspired you to pursue an LL.M?

    The academic experience was one my major reasons for pursuing an LLM, besides that I really wanted to challenge myself, that is why I decided to go for higher studies.

    I had to write a letter of purpose as a part of my LLM application explaining why I wished to pursue an LLM and what my expectations were. I believe that my application successfully convinced them that I was a deserving candidate, which is why I was given a seat in the programme. I think that it is really important convey a genuine interest in pursuing further studies to get selected in any LLM programme.

    While selecting a college to pursue my LLM, I considered the courses offered, the faculty and the total cost of my education. I chose UCL because they offered good courses in the areas I wanted to study.

     

    Why did you choose to go for UCL?

    As I mentioned earlier, my prime consideration for choosing UCL was the courses I wished to take, apart from that the reputation of the university was also a major factor. I did consider other colleges in UK such as Kings, LSE and Queen Mary, but I did not consider Indian colleges because I wanted to experience life abroad and I did not wish to spend two years pursuing a masters.

     

    Tell us about the accommodation, financial requirements and campus life at UCL?

    UCL is located in Central London and has very good accommodation facilities for the students including facilities offered by the University of London. However, if someone does not wish to stay in university accommodation one can always get a flat share in areas nearby the university at decent rates. Campus life at UCL is fantastic, there are several activities and plays that are always going on, there are a lot of places to eat, drink, hang around, karaoke, kickbox etc. The university has also got its own gym facility for people who are conscious about their fitness. I did find a lot of people from the Indian fraternity and we also had an Indian society that held many events, cricket match screenings whenever India played and celebrated various festivals such as Navratri and Diwali.

    Apart from the tuition that has recently increased and the accommodation costs that come around to 150 to 250 GBP per week, one can easily enjoy London at 500 GBP per month, plus it is not very difficult to find and manage a part time job, so it is not very costly. Plus UCL automatically considers you for many scholarships including a scholarship offered by the Chief justice of India.

     

    Tell us about the academic pressure and the faculty at UCL.

    The academic environment at UCL is very different from our law schools. There the classroom is a place for discussion and not the place to learn basics. If a student is not up to date with his/her readings, it will be very difficult for them to get anything out from the class and they may even have to face embarrassment.

    The reading list is huge, if one does not follow a proper schedule, it can be almost impossible to deal with the course load at the end, so even though I was not very regular in my studies here, I had to force myself to change this habit and only then did I manage to cover my course material.

    Faculty at UCL is very cooperative and they are usually available to clear any doubts and discuss issues in person as well as online by mail or by UCL’s electronic platform moodle.

     

    How is the recruitment/ placement for overseas students?

    The placement scene for overseas students is not very good at present. I would not deny that the tag of a prestigious university does open doors but if you are already qualified in your country, and you do not have many years of experience with you, it is very difficult to get a job. Plus you would also have to clear QLTS at your own expense since your law degree is considered as non law in the UK.

    It is comparatively easier to secure a training contract, if you have not yet qualified in your own country, however, you still need to write an exceptional application and clear six or seven rounds of assessment to get through.

     

    What do foreign universities look for in applicants?

    Excellent academics is definitely a must, however foreign universities do look for other qualities in their candidates such as any contributions to their society by volunteering etc, organisational skills, publications and sometimes achievements that distinguish you such as maybe your exceptional capability in a dance form.

     

    Tell us about the Chartered Institute of Arbitrators Award for Best Performance in International Arbitration that you received.

    As a part of my LLM programme, I undertook a course on International Arbitration. This course is recognised by the CIArb, therefore they give an award for excelling in the course in association with the Faculty of Law. I was given this award for securing a distinction and I suppose the highest marks in the course.

     

    What were your subjects in LL.M. and what made you choose them?

    I decided to choose my subjects based on my interest rather than any commercial advantage. I studied a mix of commercial and public law subjects so while on the one hand I took up International Arbitration, Cross Border M&A and Comparative US Antitrust v. EU Competition Law, I also took courses like Comparative Constitutional law and Principles of media Regulation. My dissertation focused again on International Arbitration, since I find that area interesting.

    I am currently litigating; however I do plan to get some experience in the areas I have specialised in.

     

    How was the Summer School at London School of Economics?

    Summer School at LSE was fantastic and very hectic at the same time. I studied EU Competition Law there and the course really helped me lot in my undergraduate Competition law course and also during my post-graduation. However, I would only recommend such a course to someone who is already a bit familiar with the basics and ready to burn the midnight oil for those two months. I was visiting London for the first time hence I was more interested in sightseeing, but still, I did attend all classes, if not tutorials and got a lot out of it.

     

    How has the Company Secretary course helped you as a lawyer?

    The Company Secretary course has been very helpful thus far. My concepts of corporate law, taxation law, securities and finance are a lot more clear since I undertook the course. Also I think that a little bit of company accounts and management studies can do no harm to a lawyer. So, I would definitely recommend this course, if not much, you do get another degree with just a little bit more effort that you are already putting in for law school.

     

    How was your experience writing the Judicial Services Examination in Chhattisgarh?

    I recently gave Judicial Services Examinations in my state. I did not have to prepare much as I had already studied all the core subjects in depth for the bar examination. So for my preparation, I revised all the key concepts again and studied local acts prescribed in the syllabus.

    The exams however turned out to be a huge disappointment as there were hardly any questions in the exam paper that required application of any legal concept. Most of the questions were regarding the dates on which a certain Act or amendment came into force, the number of sections or chapters in a certain Act, or the chapter no. of IPC or Evidence Act that contained so and so provisions. So unfortunately my preparation strategy was not very helpful. However, after having a look at question papers of other states, I can say that it is important that your concepts are clear in order to succeed in such a competitive exam.

     

    What would be your message to our readers who aspire to go for an LL.M. abroad?

    Dear friends, all I would say is please do not chase grades, aspire for knowledge instead, be curious to learn, the grades and success would automatically follow.

  • Protik Prokash Banerjee, Advocate, High Court, Calcutta, on litigation, and his diverse experience

    Protik Prokash Banerjee, Advocate, High Court, Calcutta, on litigation, and his diverse experience

    protik-banerjee3Protik Prokash Banerjee had graduated from Calcutta University in 1994. Thereafter he joined the Calcutta High Court. With two decades of experience as Advocate, Protik Da, as he is fondly addressed by peers and juniors, has several landmark judgments to his name.

    In this interview we spoke to him about:

    • His career as a young lawyer at the Calcutta High Court
    • Learning from his father
    • Studying in Calcutta University

     

    We had far too many questions to ask him, we have published the rest of the interview here: Protik Prokash Banerjee on dealing with success and challenges of a litigator, mettle of law students and opportunities at the Calcutta HC

     

     

    What motivated you to pursue law?

    My father and mother were both lawyers.  Normally this would have been an incentive to follow in their footsteps but in my case they did not want me to be a lawyer at all.  My father wanted me to fulfil the dreams he had abandoned in order to provide for his family – father, mother, brothers and sisters.  He wanted me to be a doctor.  Like Walter Mitty, I wanted to be a Nobel Prize winning author, the Prime Minister of India, an Indian Kal El, the man who won the Nobel Peace Prize by fostering disarmament, a scientist who found the cure for cancer, AIDS and the million ills a flesh is heir to – I had also wanted to be a pilot, an engine driver, an athlete (though my immensely uncouth obese body precluded anything that physical almost at the outset) and on certain occasions both Captain Ahab and the Whale simultaneously.

    From the time that I found myself, and that was a very long time ago, I had wanted to be a professor of English Literature.  I wanted to teach English, its nuances, the stories of the world and its civilization, the fascinating myths that make up humanity and somewhere along the line I had wanted to write.  I wanted to read everything that had ever been written, etched, sculpted, typed or printed.  All of that needed money.

    My father, a Senior Advocate of the Hon’ble High Court at Calcutta, told me in Class X that I could do all of that, of course, but while he would leave me something, it would never be enough to fuel a lifestyle that could afford all of those things unless I did something sufficiently remunerative. He pointed out that a professor did not really make much money – we are talking about 1986, when it was still a Congress Majority, Rajiv Gandhi led government – and what I wanted to do needed a lot more than a salary.

    He had always wanted to be a doctor, but for financial constraints had studied law instead, and law was a good living but he did not want me join law; he said that this profession was a graveyard of many talents, and that there were few other places where there were so many educated beasts.  He wanted me to be a doctor or an IAS officer because in those days the perquisites of the latter allowed a pleasant lifestyle.

    I took a deep look at myself and found that there were only three things that I could actually do – read, write and speak in English.  All of these, including the debates I used to revel in, told me that I might make a go of a career in law.  So I decided, way back in 1986 when I was still in Class X, that I would study law and become a lawyer and practise in the High Court.

    I never told my parents this, because my father had his heart set on a medical career.  I went on to qualify in the West Bengal Joint Entrance and was just about eligible to make it to some small Medical College in the boondocks (in those days all were government colleges here) but ultimately did not submit the form at the time of counselling.  My parents ranted and raved, but I persuaded them that law was what I wanted to do and I would not have been happy as a doctor.

     

    How did your father’s career influence yours?

    My father practised essentially in the civil and constitutional writ jurisdictions in the High Court at Calcutta.  He was a Senior Advocate.  He met my mother in Court where she practised in the civil side and after six years of courtship they got married and she left the profession and became a homemaker.

    There are so many things that I remember about my father, as a man, as a father, as a professional (though I did not have the opportunity to work with him except in two cases), that it is difficult to choose one memory over the other.  My father’s watchword was “Maaliker Daya” (The Grace of God) and this was his favourite greeting and his answer to anyone who asked after him.

    As a father, I always thought he was the best that a boy could have.  He was a busy advocate, but in my childhood, I never found that to be an obstacle to doing things with him.  He would always keep Friday evenings free for us; that would be an evening when he would take us for a show, whether a play, a show, a music recital or motion picture, and dinner.

    When we came back, he would sit up with me and tell me stories from the books he had read.  He read quite a lot even outside law.  In fact, my long term love affair with books started because I wanted to read the originals of those fascinating stories he would tell me.  The originals were always pale copies compared to the rich tapestry that my father, a story-teller of almost Bardic imagination, would weave for me.  He would adapt the toughest of books, the most adult of themes, to a one person audience: his son.  Saturdays he would work through, but Sunday afternoons he would play cards with his friends.  He regaled us with stories about court-room battles at the breakfast table and dinner and I picked up words like ‘interim order’, ‘status quo’ and ‘caveat’ and when we fought I would say ‘You have no jurisdiction to say this’ or that “I have a right to be heard”.

    He never worked beyond 1 AM, and would, almost religiously, read fiction and philosophy, every night until 3 AM, till 2004.  Nevertheless he would be awake every morning by 5 AM, go to the market and still be in Court by 10:15 AM.  He had three passions apart from his family: books, travelling and going to the market every morning.  Later on, when he had stopped going to Court, he still kept on going to the market, but once a week instead of every day.

    For a man who idolized his father, and who in the ultimate analysis (as I understand now) chose law because he wanted to be like his father and not just for fueling a lifestyle (yes I know that I contradict myself, but I am human and what seemed to be the motivation when I was sixteen or seventeen years old, is not what I found was the real inspiration behind what I became) what happened between my eighteenth year and my thirty second?  I do not know.  For some reason, that is unclear to me even today, though my love for him did not diminish one bit, the distance between our minds grew.

    For these fourteen years, though we shared the same roof and table and went out together and shared space, it seemed to me that he did not love me.  After becoming a lawyer, he threw me out of his chambers within two months, I am sure for just cause, and refused to work with me on any brief; he refused to recommend me to anyone and in fact asked learned advocates on record who wanted to brief the two of us together to take back one of the briefs.

    His most tender comment to me, in those days, when I was hurting after having lost a case or having been lambasted in Court, and knowing that there would be no sympathy still I would grudgingly ask him where I was wrong, was not an analysis of the case and what I should have done, but a seemingly unfeeling “It’s your profession and your case.  You find out what went wrong”. He would of course blandly say what he said to everyone else “When I came to the profession, I had a skin.  Now I have a hide.  Develop a hide.”

    I thought in those days that this was rejection.  Now I know it was not.  He wanted me to make it on my own.  For a long time I thought I had.  Then I re-discovered that every breath I took, I owed to him, and not just my flesh and blood.  I discovered that the books I had read I had first found in his Library.  I discovered that the principles of law I researched and that I argued, I had first heard and retained in my sub-conscious at the dinner table; I did not really have an identity.  To most people I was still “Mukul Da’r chhele” (Mukul da’s son).  I used to resent it then.  I am proud of it now.

    I never heard a word of praise from him till 2001.  In 1998, when I had been practicing for only three years he stopped attending Court regularly, saying that he had worked enough and now it was my turn;  but from 2002 he hardly attended Court and after 2004 when he had his first heart attack, he never visited the High Court again.

    I resolved my issues with him on May 26, 2001.  I remember the date.  That too, was his gift to me.  It was he who initiated the process that brought his prodigal son back to him.  The first word of praise I heard from him was the greatest.  In September 2009, the West Bengal State Unit of the Indian Law Institute was kind enough to award me the Advocate General’s Trophy for Outstanding Emerging Lawyer.  My father had been too ill to attend so I came back with the trophy and showed it to him, ready for some disparaging remark.  The frail old man, my father, rose unsurely from his bed and embraced me.  He said “You have made our family proud.”  There were tears in his eyes.  This was the best, the highest and the most treasured compliment.

    His words of advice were “Read your brief, do not mislead the Court, do your best and the rest is upto the Court.”  I have tried my best to live by these three principles and though, unlike him, I do not refuse a case because the client is not morally in the right, I have always tried, as I once said to an opposing counsel who was elevated later on, and who accused me of only defending bad men and their acts, “My client may be a bad man, but even a bad man is entitled to equal protection of the laws.”

    Lawyers like him are rare.  A gentleman with the same humane treatment for everyone, and an unshakeable sense of what was right, with an integrity that was incapable of being dented and who never supported what he thought was unjust, in life or in law.  I know I can never be like him nor acquire one tenth of his professional stature or status.

    It was only years later that I understood that he had done all this so that I could develop on my own and not have to worry about being in his shadow.  I know now, that I can never be out of his shadow and frankly, I do not want to be.  I’d rather have him alive, casting those long shadows, than be without him.

     

    You graduated from Calcutta University in ’94. What was the legal profession like back then?

    The High Court at Calcutta was a wholly different place in 1994.  No junior advocate, whether he started out in the Appellate Side or Original Side, would dare to embark on his professional journey without having attended Senior’s Chambers as a pupil for at least two to three years.  Most stayed on for at least five years and did not open their mouths to argue cases until the end of that time, contenting themselves with seeking adjournments and pass-overs of matters for their Senior.

    They spent their time in the Chambers reading law from the law-reports and the text books and bare Acts, working out the cases in which their Senior had been briefed (including preparing a List of Dates, jotting down the page numbers where the material facts were pleaded and the material documents were annexed, and attempting to summarize the points of law involved and the case-laws on the point) for the first five years; if they were devilling with a learned Advocate on Record they usually accompanied the Clerk to the Department to get to know the procedure first hand.  Otherwise, they would attend Court with their Seniors and stand to one side and follow the proceedings or assist him if he so chose.  The present trend where young law graduates enroll themselves, crack the AIBE, put on their bands, morning coat and gown (most do not use wing collars like we do) and accept arguing briefs or cases from the first day, or expect to get cases from the first day and to earn from day one, was unthinkable. For me it still is.

    None of our law-schools or colleges teaches the practice of law.  They only teach the theory and in some cases the law itself.  Litigation cannot be taught in class room.  It is a profession and thus must be learnt by following the practitioners in real life.  One month long internships are not sufficient though they are a start.

    Of course as usual I did not practise what I now profess.  Since I was thrown out of my father’s chambers within 2 months of enrollment (as I wrote in the answer to an earlier question) I had to shift for myself.  I took on cases, shocked seniors with my precociousness and the arrogance of ignorance, made mistakes, got bawled out by Judges and other advocates alike, but corrected them myself after reading the law.

    In 1994 there was another thing that was different from today.  By and large the Original Side of the High Court comprised people who practised exclusively in the Original Side and those who practised in the Appellate Side tended to do so exclusively.  Of course there were glorious exceptions, but from what I saw it was very difficult for a junior lawyer to get briefed in an Original Side matter as junior counsel unless he practised exclusively as counsel in the Original Side or a junior lawyer to get briefed in the Appellate Side as junior counsel unless it was his case and he had signed the vakalatnama.

    I remember only the warm welcome that I received when I, having no background in the Original Side, started appearing in suits and interlocutory matters briefed by a young advocate on record who had just become a member of the Incorporated Law Society.  I would like to flatter myself that I was part of the change that happened.  Now the distinction between the sides and the practitioners has blurred so much that we are all advocates first.  This is a welcome change.

    Another thing that has changed is the plight of first generation lawyers.  As you may understand, law reports, journals and law books are very important for a lawyer to train himself.  Those who have lawyers in their families tend to have it easy because their forbears or relatives already have a rich library.  In 1994, those who did not come from such a family had no access to such books, often rare and very old (such as Indian Appeals of the late 19th century) and there only hope was to find chambers which allowed juniors access to the library even for their personal work.

    These were not rare, but getting into them was difficult.  Now, with the internet and legal software and most particularly Indiankanoon (no they did not pay me to endorse them!) it is no longer a problem.  So long as a young man is prepared to work hard and go through the documents and the digital records, he can access almost any judgment, any case and any principle of law that has been uploaded and most have been, in one archive or another.

    I do not have friends.  I used to have them when I left school but I was the only boy from my batch in Calcutta Boys’ School who had chosen law in 1988.  As I wrote in the answer to an earlier question, I had made it very clear from 1986 that I would study law to become a lawyer, and so my friends were not surprised.  They were surprised though that I adhered to my decision even after cracking the West Bengal Joint Entrance Examinations in the medical stream, however lowly my rank was.

    Very frankly, in the preliminary years of law college I thought that the Code of Civil Procedure which I kept on reading was the most boring thing on the world and the Constitution of India was a very presumptuous document ‘copied-pasted’ from foreign sources by overbearing lawyers with a colonial hangover and chips on their shoulders to try and show-off before the world “See how civilized, liberal, secular and enlightened we are.”  With time my ideas have undergone a change.  I now understand that they were trying their best to guide a largely disempowered multitude from the centuries of forced darkness into light.  I now feel that the Code of Civil Procedure is the most fascinating labyrinth which can exercise our minds.  Apart from the Original Side Rules, that is to say!

    My initial ambitions?  I wanted to be the best arguing lawyer in the country.  To help bring justice to those who could not afford it.  I understood that drafting was important only after an year!

     

    How was your experience as a student of Calcutta University in the midst of an enlightened community of people?

    The atmosphere in the University College of Law (Hazra Campus) was politically charged but hardly violent.  This is because we had only one party – the Students Federation of India, which ran the Union and for most of my college life, got candidates it supported, elected unopposed.  All our festivals and programmes were given a definite Leftist political slant and while India was facing a balance of payment crisis and was debating entering the open market, we were still discussing the merits of the education system in Cuba over that of USA.  We were discussing the imperialistic aggression of the Allied Forces against Iraq but hardly bothered about the fact that because of V.P. Singh and his ill-judged attempt to create a mark on history, people were burning themselves over reservation for “Other Backward Classes”.  I consider the politics of those days to be puerile, immature and ultimately pointless.

    By and large students participated in politics because they had to and because it allowed them to taste the gravy train of attendance percentage without attending classes, get cheap recognition when they had done nothing to deserve it, because they were friendless and in some cases because they wanted a career in politics and this was the stepping stone.  I was no exception. I mouthed the platitudes, tried to avoid going out in ‘processions’, but used the union connection to get my percentage of attendance without actually attending all the classes.  Those things have ended, now.

    Now, I am told that the administration has become very strict and unless you actually attend classes, you are not shown to have been present. I will not call the community of people at College enlightened.  Some of them were, as they are everywhere, but most were ordinary people like you and I.  It was nothing like your national law schools with the high drama and passion play and moots and what not.  We just served time till we got our degrees.  We learnt very little at College except about University life.  I used the time for binges, orgies and having fun.  Studies were for one month before the examination.  That was sufficient. Of course, I kept on reading a lot throughout college life, not necessarily law.

     

    What were your plans after graduation?

    I always wanted to practise law. My plans were to join my father’s chambers and start practising in High Court.  Both my plans came true.  However the first ended in two months as I have answered you before.  The second is still continuing.  I never thought of doing anything else.

    In 1994 a fresh law graduate could practise law in the courts or the fast burgeoning tribunals.  He could gather a few years’ experience and sit for his judicial service examinations and become a judge in the subordinate judiciary. He could also sit immediately for the Civil Services examinations where he would get exemption in the law papers. He could become a law-officer in a government concern, but in those days that needed a few years of experience.  He could also take a job in the legal department of business-houses and corporates, but normally these were based on recommendation and contacts and not on merit.

    Of course he could take a job in a solicitor firm (they were not called law firm in those days and most lawyers looked down upon them, yes, even the top tier law firms of today were just ‘solicitors’ to most advocates) but the pay was not very high in those days.  By and large people studied law to become lawyers and practise law and not sit behind desks and get a salary while they specialized in doing research for partners or clients without ever having to argue in court.

    You did not do a ‘fee quote’ or get mandates from your client; your client engaged or retained you and executed a vakalatnama in your favour or wrote a letter retaining your services and paying you an initial retainer or conference fees.

    You yourself took responsibility for what you did and did not hide behind paragraphs of disclaimers and the anonymity of a team.  You learnt procedure and did what lawyers do instead of knowing the theory and hunting around desperately for someone to tell you how to write a petition for adjournment in the lower court.

     

    Back in ’95 just out of college, how did you manage to get a mentor for yourself?

    As I said, I started out with my father.  That ended two months into my profession.  So that is how I found my mentor and lost him. Thereafter my only mentors were my books and the learned Seniors I was briefed with.  You might say that I was more of an Eklavya than an Arjun.

    Seriously, I think that the only things that distinguish a senior from a junior are knowledge and experience, the latter including court-craft.  Experience you cannot gain without actually putting in those long years of work and doing a lot of cases.  Yet knowledge is something that both seniors and juniors get from the same books.  So long as you have access to books I think you can get by, given the calibre and high quality of law students today.

    In retrospect, I could have done much better if I had a mentor.  If I had devilled under someone like Mr. Anindya Kumar Mitra or Mr. Saktinath Mukherjee, learned Senior Advocates, today I could have been a complete lawyer.  I take those names only as examples, iconic though these learned Seniors are.  In my formative years, I worked a lot with Mr. Bimal Kumar Chatterjee (presently the learned Advocate General of West Bengal), Mr. Pratap Chatterjee, and then Mr. Anindya Kumar Mitra, learned Senior Advocates and Barristers-at-Law.

    After a few years experience I also worked with Mr. Shyama Prasanna Roy Chowdhury and Mr. Ashok Banerjee, learned Senior Advocates and after ten years of practice, with Mr. Kalyan Bandyopadhyay, learned Senior Advocate.  I guess if I had been fortunate enough to have any of them as mentors today I would have a far better grounding in law, court-craft, etiquette and the profession.

    You need a mentor to guide you in the profession, to protect you from the consequences of your mistakes, both in your cases and in the profession.  If you are a first generation lawyer you need a mentor to show you the way in which a case is to be approached, the way in which strategies are formulated, and the manner in which a point of law is formulated and even for the law-resources such as rare law reports, text books and journals.

    Sometimes it is as basic as knowing the format for a draft.  A mentor, a Senior as we call them, in the profession is like a Guru of ancient times.  Junior lawyers must learn how to sit at his feet (figuratively if not literally) and learn from him, what he does and how he does it.  There should be absolute humility, obedience and surrender.  Reminds me of an album by some of my favourite artistes – “Love, Devotion, Surrender”.  Remember, unless you can approach your Teacher with absolute humility and consciousness of your own ignorance, you will never learn; if you are already too full of yourself and what you think you know, nothing new will percolate.

    Remember, litigation means appearing before an adjudicator.  He is only human.  It is the Mentor, with his vast experience, who can guide you and teach you how adjudicators can be lawfully persuaded and what are the ways in which you can train yourself to do it instinctively.

    These are the reasons why a Mentor is still indispensable in the world of litigation.

     

    How valuable would you say your legal education was at Calcutta University?

    All my theory I learnt from books, some of which I read while at the University.  All of the knowledge of law, the practical field of litigation I learnt while practising in High Court, observing others and from my own mistakes and while doing cases.  I must confess that I learnt almost nothing of law at the University College of Law – not because there was nothing to learn, but because except for a learned Advocate who took us in Legal Language and Drafting, none of our teachers of law actually knew much about what they were teaching.

    Our legal language and drafting lecturer was a practising solicitor of some reputation and he could teach us Conveyancing without referring to any book whatsoever.  He did refer us to one book, De Souza’s Conveyancing, which was an invaluable treasure.  The others just read out notes or from the bare Act which we could have done by ourselves sitting at home.  So I would say that the only reason why the University was important was because I had to go through it to get a degree which enabled me to enroll myself as an Advocate.  I would tend to agree with the people who say that all they have learnt is in their years of practice – with one caveat.  They must have studied in institutions like mine.

     

    protik-banerjee1

    How was the court atmosphere back then?

    We must make one thing very clear.  Litigation is not about oratory.  It may have been in the years of Cicero and Caesar but not now, not here.  Judges are there to adjudicate cases and lawyers assist them.  Our job is to present the facts of our case as concisely and completely as possible, indicate the questions of law which arise, show the law and precedents if any, on the points and urge why our client should have judgment entered in his favour.  The opposing counsel does the same, while trying to rebut the points we have taken.

    Of course it is important to articulate and to speak in such a manner as would not detract from its content – for example very few lawyers speak English (the official language of our High Court) like an Englishman and many of them speak with a decidedly Indian or Bengali accent but that does not prevent the Judges from understanding them; again, most lawyers in our High Court speak English indifferently, giving scant respect to the rules of grammar and syntax. Yet as long as the Hon’ble Judges understand them justice is usually done.  It is only when someone speaks in such an idiosyncratic manner that it becomes painful or amusing that the delivery starts to damage the content.

    Of course it does not hurt if you speak very well, but you should take care that your flight of oratory does not irritate or bore the Judge who after all has several cases to hear and dispose of, and so your oral submissions should not be so long-winded that they become repetitious or monotonous. I guess the golden mean would be to speak fluently, pleasantly and grammatically, if possible, without putting on any airs.

    Judges took kindly to any advocate who spoke sensibly, briefly and to the point in those days.  They still do.  Sometimes, when it has been a long day and the Court has been listening to similar type of cases all day long, it pays to enliven the tedium by digressing into literature, anecdote or even by presenting the facts of your case in a novel manner, which requires a degree of oratory. Normally the Judges welcome this from lawyers with some standing in Court but discourage it among juniors, since they are afraid that encouraging light-heartedness from those yet to earn their spurs could lead to facetiousness or flippancy, as one Hon’ble Judge (now retired) actually said to me.  It was a company case and my client, an intending auction purchaser, was seeking inspection of the assets of the company being wound up.  The Official Liquidator’s department, which had custody of the movables, was notorious in those days for carelessness and allowing pilferage.

    So, when His Lordship seemed inclined to refuse my prayer and asked me “But they are in the custody of the Court through the Official Liquidator, so why are you bothered?” and I responded with lightning speed, “But that is precisely the reason for my client’s apprehension, My Lord”.  For a moment the entire court was dumbstruck and then everyone broke out in laughter, including the Hon’ble Judge.

    However, in a moment His Lordship turned somber and menacing and said “This Court does not appreciate facetiousness from counsel”.  I was suitably abashed and tendered my apology.  I got the order I wanted after that.  The lesson to be drawn is that the Court understood what I said was perfectly correct and would have probably accepted it in that form if I had been a little more senior, but expected that a junior counsel would rephrase the submission.

    My experience in the first few sessions was ghastly.  The first time I spoke in Court, I choked up for a moment.  This was despite the fact that I had done a considerable amount of public speaking and the Presiding Judge was someone who had been affably chatting with me the evening before, at a soiree, where I had been mixing the music for the performers.  He was the guest of honour.  I ought not to have been afraid.

    Yet the atmosphere, the feeling of being in robes, stiff, wing collars, bands and with the Judges looking down upon you from a great height, the high ceilinged rooms, almost like cathedrals, these create an ambience that is intimidating, to say the least.  It got better after that, but even today, when I rise to speak for the first time in a case, I feel a familiar tingling in my palms, sweat on my brow and a slight trembling of the knees.

     

    How did you build up your client base?

    I do not have a client base.  I was briefed by learned advocates on record who had a client base.  These advocates on record briefed me because they liked the way I submitted in Court – effective but also cost effective because in those days the others who spoke like I did charged much more than I did.  In our Court there is an understandable but wholly erroneous impression that if you argue well you must also know how to draft well.

    So, I got drafting briefs.  I drafted very quickly, typing them myself, so the solicitors got their work on time without the trouble of stenographers delaying or making mistakes which were required to be corrected.  So they gave me a lot more drafting briefs.

    The more drafting I did I got better at it, until I became, in my estimation, a competent draftsman.  Once it was found that I could draft and speak, those who had briefed me once, continued to brief me.  Yes, many a time my eccentricities, moods and half crazy working style, my irregularity in Court drove my solicitors away.  It once got so bad, I had no case at all for a month, just a few months after my daughter had been born.  It was all savings for a few months.  Then for a few years I gave up private practice and was retained by the Government of West Bengal as its Standing Counsel.  I came back to private practice in March, 2014.  I again started getting briefed by a new generation of lawyers, who had seen me arguing for the government and had heard of me from their seniors.

    A firm clientele base is something that is very enviable and I do have a few clients who keep on coming back to me for everything – whether it is a draft, a conveyance, a case in Court or just an opinion.  These are usually clients who had some business related case where their learned advocate had briefed me once and by God’s Grace we had succeeded in it, and thereafter they insisted that I be briefed in everything that concerned them.

    This therefore is a result of results – in other words, if you work hard and your lay-client appreciates it, chances are that he will ask his learned advocate on record to go on briefing you.  There is, therefore, no hard and fast parameter of any number of years of practice for building up a client base – there is only work that you have do and give your best; my advice would be, forget about getting a client base, and do whatever work you get as well as you can.  The rest will follow.

     

    protik-banerjee4Did you build everlasting relation with your clients?

    Everlasting relation with my clients!  Are you mad!  If you build an everlasting relation with your clients, better make him your friend and do his work for free.  Why do you think a client does not usually do his case himself?  He knows the facts of his own case better than any lawyer ever can or would.  If he is educated and intelligent he can read the same cases and research the law on the internet.  Arguably, apart from intricacies of jurisprudence, he can put up as good a fight as any lawyer, yet he engages advocates.

    He does this because as a client he is indelibly imprinted with the justice of his own cause and try as he might, he always sees the facts from his own point of view and allows his emotions to cloud his perception about the facts or the defence of the other side.  A lawyer is trained to be dispassionate.  Of course he ought to believe in the merits of his client’s case, but that does not mean identifying with the client.  Yet, if you have an everlasting relation with your client (like a friend of the family so to speak) you lose that element of dispassionate analysis which alone sets you apart.  Besides, as they say in Hindi ‘ghoda ghaas se yaari karega to khayega kya?’

    It is possible for a counsel to build a long term relationship with his advocate on record but that is based on mutual respect and the results that each produce.  Personal friendship is a wholly different matter, and happens between and among people and not necessarily between lawyers and clients.

    I discourage personal relations with my clients.  Yet I treat each client in the same manner as I would treat any other person of his age.  I maintain a line, a very thin line yet a line nonetheless between them and myself.  That is the line which protects the dignity of the advocate from over-familiarity on the client’s part.  Take an example – imagine the same set of clients are briefing you over a period of years because you have worked hard for them in the past and produced results.  In time they have come to know of your daughter’s birthday, your birthday and your anniversary (because you politely declined to sit for a conference with them on those dates), your health and the plans for your vacation.

    So they bring you a cake for the birthday, an expensive sari and a suit-length for your anniversary and three air tickets, business class for your vacation.  You will be perfectly justified in accepting the first, demurring at the second but accepting them with a caveat that this should not be repeated and refusing the last.  If you do accept a gift, make sure that you present something in turn, as you would do in case of any other social occasion.  If they bring you gifts of rare alcohol, do not refuse them.

    Make sure that you send them something good that they appreciate. If they invite you to a wedding in their family, humbly accept the invitation, promise to turn up but do not – repeat, do not – make some excuse, send your juniors or even your most trusted junior along with gifts, but do not yourself accept such invitations.

    You may think that this will be impolite or even alienate your clients, but please remember, they do not fraternize with you or want to socialize with you because of your fascinating personality or your singing voice.  In the final analysis it is your talent and acumen as a lawyer they treasure, and so long as you have that and give every work they bring you the best that you can, they will gladly be with you forever.  They will ultimately end up respecting you for your principles.

    Do not even make the mistake of thinking, because of the above, that you are a service provider such as a driver or a milkman or a cook.  You do not serve your client, if you are a lawyer.  He does not even hire you.  He engages you by the hour or for particular assignments or work, for fees that he pays you or your learned advocate on record and he does it because you are a professional.  It is a profession as defined by the Hon’ble Supreme Court and it is not a part of any service industry.

    Even the government appreciates this distinction by leaving individual practitioners outside the dragnet of service tax.  It is the businessmen of law – the law firms – who render service.  Counsel and individual advocates do not.  We do our clients a favour by accepting their briefs.  The taxi-cab rule does not apply to us.  Come to think of it, the taxi-cab rules do not apply even to taxi-cabs in Calcutta.

    Being an advocate is a very heavy responsibility.  As you grow older you will appreciate it does not consist only of wearing a black coat and bands and doing “Judge Saab” like Sunny Deol in a Bollywood blockbuster or rushing to the police station with a bulging brief case to bail out your gangster client.  It requires a dedication to the rule of law, the ineffable yet ineradicable principles of justice and a commitment to the dignity of the most impartial wing of government, the last bastion of liberty and democracy in an age of increasing commercialism, capitalism and authoritarianism – to the judiciary which is forever a sentinel on the que vive.

     

    We have published the rest of the interview here: Protik Prokash Banerjee on dealing with success and challenges of a litigator, mettle of law students and opportunities at the Calcutta HC

  • Mayank Mishra, Founder, TeamResearch, on working in Private Equity and starting up with TeamResearch

    Mayank Mishra, Founder, TeamResearch, on working in Private Equity and starting up with TeamResearch

    Mayank Mishra graduated from HNLU, Raipur in 2009. Long before graduation he had received a PPO from Paras Kuhad & Associates. Later he moved on to Pathak & Associates and at present he is an attorney at Caspian Advisors. Mayank has also started TeamResearch.in, a platform for lawyers and law students to convene and exchange ideas.

    We take this opportunity to ask him about:

    • Studying law and managing internships from HNLU.
    • Working at two major law firms and then moving to Caspian Advisors; and
    • Starting up with and building TeamResearch.in

     

    How would you like to introduce yourself to our readers?

    With honours in corporate and intellectual property laws, I graduated from Hidayatullah National Law University, Raipur (HNLU) in 2009 and was awarded the Chancellor’s Gold Medal for overall achievement in my law school.

    After graduation, I joined Paras Kuhad & Associates, New Delhi (PKA) and worked for two years with litigation and corporate teams. I shifted to P&A Law Offices, New Delhi (P&A) as a corporate law counsel where I advised domestic and offshore clients for structuring their investments in India. For the last one year I am associated with Caspian Impact Investment Adviser Private Limited, a Private Equity (PE) fund in Hyderabad and handle all its legal matters. Also, I have co-founded www.TeamResearch.in – an online legal research portal meant for lawyers, professionals and law students.

    I have also secured the Post Graduate Certificate in Management (PGCM) in Finance from All Indian Management Association (AIMA), New Delhi and planning to pursue MBA soon.

     

    How did you gravitate towards law?

    I remember those days when almost every other friend of mine was either preparing for JEE or C-PMT. Being a mathematics student, by default I was a part of the rat race and was getting trained to somehow manage a seat in one of the IITs. The journey to IIT was difficult and I always wanted to opt out of it, but without an alternate career it was difficult to convince my parents. What came to my rescue was an article I read in Hindustan Times by Ms. Pervin Malhotra, a career counsellor who then predicted law as a rewarding career and compared it with IITs. I was quite impressed by the article and was happy to discover a career which was as good as an IIT. After a thorough research on National Law Schools, course curriculum and job potential, I opted for law over engineering and got admitted to HNLU.

     

    Tell us about your internships.

    Internships are important part of law school life. All together I have interned for more than 300 days in NGOs, District Courts, High Courts, Supreme Court and leading law firms. Despite begin a member of my batch internship committee, all my internships were secured on my own. Unfortunately, I never had those uncles or bhaiyas who could fetch me an internship over a phone call. For many of my other batch mates, HNLU internship committee played a vital role in getting the internships with NGOs, senior counsels and law firms.

     

    Do you think law schools prepare students adequately for on the job experience?

    During my internship days I always thought that my law school training was sufficient enough to take all possible assignments during my internships. Thanks to that belief and the so called self confidence, I could take various internships and perform to the best of my caliber. However, on hindsight I believe that it’s not about delivering an assignment but the manner in which an assignment is performed matters most in an internship. Hard work which is the bare necessity will be appreciated only if it is coupled with a correct and smart approach. Soft skills including small things like how to write an email or a memo to clients are never made part of a law school curriculum. The projects which we use to submit or the research we did for moots were far away from the real world assignments. After being five years in the profession, I believe that there is a serious disconnect between a law school teachings and what profession actually demands. TeamResearch.in which is my venture is devised to bridge this gap and equip 3rd to 5th year students get a sense of real world experience in their law school. It is my firm belief that one day TeamResearch.in will play a key role in helping students to be better professionals.

     

    Tell us about the life at HNLU.

    In HNLU I participated in various moot court competitions, debates, extempore, Mock-UN and other customary co-curricular activities. Thanks to the well devised academic calendar, I could get more than twenty articles published in national and international journals and simultaneously have sufficient time to be a part of cricket and football teams of my batch. The idea of TeamResearch.in, which is now a reality, has taken its roots in HNLU. On personal front, HNLU got me more than a few good friends and the life partner. Taken all together, life at HNLU was anything but hectic and monotonous.

     

    Do you subscribe to the belief that certain NLUs are more elite than the others?

    With the number of law colleges mushrooming every year, lack of experienced faculty members and the poor education quality I believe students of certain ‘elite’ and established NLU’s have a much easier time in kick-starting their career as compared to law students from other colleges. The best example is to compare a final year student of any one of the new NLUs with a NLSIU student. On an average top 5% of NLSIU grads will either have a scholarship from a foreign university or a trainee contract with magic circle firms. However, even after years of inception, toppers of new NLUs struggle hard to secure a job with tier one law firm. However I have always believed the famous saying “It isn’t where you came from; it’s where you’re going that counts.”

     

    After graduating from HNLU you directly joined Paras Kuhad Associates. How did the appointment take place?

    In the final year of my law school when recession was at its peak I interned at PKA, when I received a pre placement offer. I accepted the offer and opted out of my college recruitment drive. After graduation, I joined the firm and actively worked in both litigation and corporate teams. I was fortunate to personally work with Mr. Kuhad, who is now designated as the Additional Solicitor General of India and learn intricacies of law from him.

     

    mayank-mishra2What prompted the switchover from PKA to Pathak & Associates Law Offices?

    After working for two years at PKA, I wanted to broaden my learning curve and consensually decided to work with a corporate law firm. One of my senior from HNLU who was then working with P&A helped me to get an interview with Mr. Pathak. The interview went well and I joined P&A.

    In terms of clients and work environment, the two firms were quite different. At PKA we had majority of Indian clients, whereas at P&A we use to serve foreign clients. Likewise while working at PKA, I use to make plans for dinner with my friends, but at P&A I could only manage to get last movie show of the day once in a fortnight. In terms of work quality both these firms were fantastic and helped me to grow as a professional and a person I’m today.

     

    You thereafter left P&A to start working at Caspian Adviser. What led to this shift?

    Working for P&A was certainly my first choice but starting a venture of my own was something which I always wanted to do. In the midst of love and quest for passion, I decided to shift to Caspian Adviser – a Hyderabad based private equity fund and took a break from demanding law firm’s life. At Caspian, I’m responsible for management of all legal matters. The scope of work includes liasioning with law firms and key managerial personnel of our investee companies, attending board and committee meetings, making periodical presentations to the board of directors, drafting and negotiations of transaction documents and advising the senior management on structuring of domestic and cross border debt and equity transactions.

     

    mayank-mishra3

    Please tell us about your venture TeamResearch.in.

    TeamResearch.in is India’s 1st professionally managed and most reliable online legal research assistant. With an extensive market analysis and experience gathered, the venture has been designed to effectively assist the lawyers, hard pressed associates in law firms, in-house counsels, professionals and entrepreneurs, in performing the complex legal research on varied areas of law. If I have to summarize in one sentence, TeamResearch.in is designed to redefine the way legal research is being conducted. I endeavour to provide my clients a tailored and most reliable and authentic legal research assistance which they can rely upon.

     

    What is the overall model of TeamResearch.in?

    I personally ensure simplicity and credibility remains the virtue for TeamResearch.in. The mode of TeamResearch.in is as simple as one can comprehend. The entire venture is divided in following 3 steps:

    One – Lawyers, associates in law firms, in-house counsels, professionals or entrepreneurs (Client/ Query Seeker) who wish to avail services of TeamResearch.in are required to visit our website and post their query online. Once a query is received, we send an email to the Client/Query Seeker confirming the delivery schedule and our bank account details for processing the payment.

    Two – The query is sent to at least two meritorious researchers who are registered with TeamResearch.in and one qualified lawyer of TeamResearch.in.

    Three – All responses are then compiled, reviewed, crosschecked and authenticated by an independent experienced lawyer. Thereafter, a final research note is prepared and delivered to the Client/Query Seeker in a time bound manner. For clarifications and questions, we also arrange on call support services.

    For further details, please refer to http://teamresearch.in/How-it-Works.htm

     

    How will you ensure the quality of research by students?

    To maintain quality of research note, all queries are independently researched upon by at least one qualified and experienced lawyer of TeamResearch.in. Additionally, TeamResearch.in closely monitors and reviews every research note which it sends out to the Client/ Query Seeker.

     

    Who do you think will take services of TeamResearch.in?

    The services of TeamResearch.in will be availed by all those individual lawyers who wish to follow their passion, enjoy weekend getaways, spend ‘that’ extra hour with family and friends and more importantly have dearth of capable juniors and resources to conduct exhaustive research on their own. Additionally, small to mid-sized law firms and in house counsels who look forward for reducing their operational cost, will take the services of TeamResearch.in. We also expect budding entrepreneurs and start-ups with financial constrain to take services of TeamResearch.in.

     

    Apart from your clients, how do you think student fraternity will be benefited by TeamResearch.in?

    Students who are and will be associated with TeamResearch.in are trained to handle work pressure and equip themselves with research skills. Further, TeamResearch.in gives a flavour of gaining real world work experience which a student just can’t get in his/her classroom. Furthermore, TeamResearch.in financially rewards its researchers and pays them for every successful research assignment.

     

    Where did you get the inspiration for this venture?

    The idea of TeamResearch.in developed its roots during my law school life, where I discussed the idea with my roommate and the co-founder of TeamResearch.in Mr. M. Srinivas. As a student, I have got various opportunities to intern with a broad range of organizations and leading law firms. During my internships I was expected to extract information, research for relevant case laws and process them into a fine deliverable, which formed the basis for answering queries to structuring transactions and arguments in court rooms. I realised the necessity of having a capable and well groomed intern throughout the year and not just during the semester breaks of law schools. As the academic curriculum of most law schools demand high classroom attendance, I visualized making an intern available all round the year on a virtual platform.

     

    Why will you succeed where so many others have not made the cut?

    (It seems that other competitors have tried this business model earlier and have not been much successful in evolving a revenue stream. Grayscale and Lexbiosis come to our mind.)

    It would not be wise to comment on success or failure of Grayscale and Lexbiosis but certainly the substratum of TeamResearch.in is completely different than its predecessors. Unlike a typical undergrad initiative, TeamResearch.in is an organization which is lead by professionals and meant for professionals. Our core team comprises of qualified lawyers who are well versed with the requirements of legal fraternity. The reason for our success is the effective pricing of our services and credibility of the research assistance.

     

    How are you financing the business?

    The initial funding came from my personal savings and a portion from Srinivas. With the fantastic pace TeamResearch.in is growing, I believe it should reach its break-even point very soon. After reaching the break-even point, we will be looking for an angel investment to take our start-up to a whole new level. Meanwhile, I wish to recruit a few lawyers in order to cope up with the growing spree of TeamResearch.in.

     

    You are a corporate professional and also have started-up at the same time. How do you manage these two different involvements?

    I firmly believe that if one deploys his time wisely, managing a venture along with routine professional life is not difficult. Yes, at times I feel pushed but my team is always available for rescue.

     

    If I want to start up on my own someday, what would be an ideal time in my career to take such a risk?

    As Walt Disney said “The way to get started is to quit talking and start doing.” If the idea is good and one can financially sustain the venture for at least 24 months, any time is a good time. Do remember it’s always good to try than to cry.

     

    Who all are associated with TeamResearch?

    Apart from Srinivas and my wife Ruchi who is also a lawyer and a member of TeamResearch, we have retained a part-time IT engineer for managing the TeamResearch.in web portal. Presently, we have a database of approximately one-hundred researchers from almost all NLUs and law colleges, an advisory group comprising of fifteen associates/senior associates from leading law firms and one practicing company secretary to handle secretarial compliance. In past, we have also taken services of several experienced lawyers for drafting of petitions and corporate agreements.

     

    What qualities or factors should one look at while selecting a co-founder?

    I believe that there is no definite mantra. It’s not you but the idea which identifies a co-founder on its own. Compatibility and trust are the two important factors which one must look while selecting a co-founder. I am fortunate to have Srinivas as a co-founder of TeamResearch.in.

     

    Tell us about the biggest challenge you faced while starting up and how you solved them.

    The biggest challenge which I faced was to come out of my comfort zone and start TeamResearch.in. To overcome the myth that one cannot start a venture while working as a legal professional was difficult to crack. It took me 4 years to make TeamResearch.in a reality. Thanks to Srinivas and Ruchi for the constant support which has helped me to get TeamResearch.in where it stands today.

     

    Where do you see yourself five years down the line?

    Five years is a very long period. I see TeamResearch.in as a consultancy firm in a few years which will not only help lawyers across the country to identify correct legal position or a case law but also assist fresh graduates from law schools to understand the profession better. I want TeamResearch.in to groom students in their law school life and make them marketable for the real legal world. Just like, moots, publications and courses, I want TeamResearch.in to be a de facto part of every law student’s life.

    Also, we are going to add new services which include drafting of agreements, petitions, preparation of study materials for workshops and conferences and providing research assistance to students who are pursuing higher studies.

     

     

  • Anish Jaipuriar, Law Graduate, NLUO, on being offered a PPO from Khaitan & Co., summer school from LSE and on mooting

    Anish Jaipuriar, Law Graduate, NLUO, on being offered a PPO from Khaitan & Co., summer school from LSE and on mooting

    Anish Jaipuriar graduated from NLUO, Cuttack, in 2014, as part of their inaugural batch. During this time he has interned with the Food Corporation of India, Khaitan & Co., Indus Legal, Zeus Law Associate, and AMSS. He has also managed the moot court committee, represented NLUO at various moots, and has also attended one of the best summer school programmes at the London School of Economics.

    Anish has received a pre-placement offer from Khaitan & Co.

    In this interview we speak to him about :

    • His mooting experience
    • Attending London School of Economics
    • Receiving a PPO from Khaitan

     

    How would you like to introduce yourself to our readers?

    Apart from law, I love watching movies, visiting new places. I am also very passionate about mooting.

    My childhood was mostly spent in Bokaro Steel City, Jharkhand. I completed my schooling from Delhi Public School. After having completed my Xth from there, my family shifted to New Delhi where I completed my XI and XII and finally appeared for the law entrance tests and got selected at NLUO. My parents were my inspirational sources which became the driving factor to get to where I am today and to where I want to go. I am a first generation lawyer, my father is a Chartered Accountant and has his private practice so, choosing law was something new for the entire family.

     

    What motivated you to choose law as a career?

    My ending up in law was more an accident than a well thought plan. I was all set to join Manchester University to pursue Economics (Hons.) and International Business, but due to various personal reasons I decided to pursue Economics (Hons.) from Delhi University, but the course did not suit me at all, so I decided to appear for law entrances and finally ended up in NLUO. Fortunately it turned out to be a life changer and I am happy it turned out the way it did.

     

    What co-curricular activities did you engage yourself in?

    Well, I was also a member of various student committees such Literary and Debating and for a brief period I was also associated with the Mess and Hostel committee. I spearheaded the 1st Intra-University Debating Competition for selection of a pool of debaters who would represent NLUO in different debating competition held nationally and internationally. I was also the member of editorial board of the 1st NLUO Law Review.

     

    You were the convener of The Moot Society. What skills do you get to hone while managing such a responsibility?

    In the five years of my law school life, I have regularly been associated with The Moot Society (TMS) in several capacities: as a member for one academic session, a convener for three academic sessions and as an expert advisor in my final year. Mooting is one of the most important activities that take place in a law school apart from academics. Given that my University was in its early years of establishment, as a convener you have the biggest responsibility of developing mooting culture in a law school, and with our current Mooting Premier League (MPL) ranking I feel very happy.

    These years of my association with TMS has helped me improve on my inter-personal skills, organizational skills and has made me more responsible. It helped me develop and polish my multi-tasking skills.

     

     

    How important is mooting?

    (Anish has participated in various moot court competitions like ELSA, Price Law Media, NLUD Corp, and GH Raisoni.)

    In the first few weeks of law school I decided to do four moots: two as speaker and two as researcher. When I took this decision I had no clue how it would help my CV, but sure as anything I wanted to add good content to my CV and make it long. It was only in time that I learnt it is not the number of pages in CVs that help you but the quality that you carry in it. In the four moots that I have done, one got me a Best Memorandum award and in the other one I was adjudged the Best Mooter and my team qualified into the semi-finals.

    Mooting helps you identify and improve your legal skills, the answer to the question whether it helps your CV is an absolute YES!!

     

    anish-jaipuriar1

    Can you tell us about your experience at LSE?

    (Anish attended a summer school course at the prestigious London School of Economics and Political Science on Introduction to International Financial Law and Regulation.)

    LSE is one of the top schools in the world and to have its name in my CV was a big for me. The experience of being part of LSE history and to study there and walk around the campus is just something you can’t compare. No matter how great you think it is going to be, the LSE feel is just beyond imagination. Though it was a short course of three weeks, you have so many things to be done; if you intend to pass the exams and submit the essays for evaluation in time you will soon realize that this trip is not a holiday. Right from the welcome party to boat party to weekends’ trip to Oxford and Cambridge, the entire course is filled with events like opera, drama and sightseeing, LSE leaves you wanting for more.

    LSE summer school takes place in two sessions, you can select a course from each session and attend both session or you can attend just one session. The application process is online, fill in the application within deadline submit the same along with supporting documents with the application fee (request for waiver may be made), and wait for them to reply. You can check the status of your application online. For more info you can visit this webpage.

     

    Tell us what all places you interned at and how did you procure your internships?

    When it comes to internship, I find myself quite lucky, because I am sure even with the right merits and grades one may not land up a good internship. I started my first Corporate Law internship at Hemant Sahai Associates, thereafter I interned with Khaitan & Co in its Delhi, Mumbai and Bangalore offices. I also had the opportunity to intern with Zeus Law Associates with its corporate team. I have also done an internship with Amarchand & Mangaldas & Suresh A Shroff & Co, Mumbai office.

    I got through HSA, KCo. and AMS internships trough e-mail and interview process and Zeus and litigation internship through Internship committee in place at NLUO.

     

    What kind of work did you come across during your internships?

    At KCo. I was associated with the corporate team, I was also asked to accompany a team to another city for a due-diligence work. At AMSS, I was interning in the tax team and was given mostly research work.

     

    Give us some tips on framing a CV?

    Preparing your CV is more like a balancing act; you must balance both the curriculum side, extra-curricular and co-curricular side. But again there is no straight rule for preparing your CV. To a certain extent it depends for which place the CV is meant for.

     

    You secured a PPO from Khaitan & Co. Did you have an interview before you were offered the PPO? Tell us about the interview process and how did you prepare for it?

    Yes, after completing my third and last internship at KCO, I applied for a position and was shortlisted for interview. After clearing the first round of interview, I was shortlisted for second round and after clearing the same I was then offered a PPO.

    I mostly read the basics of Company Law, and prepared my CV; one needs to know everything that has been mentioned in the CV. Companies Act 2013 was another important area of questioning.

     

    What do you think an intern should do to get the “call-back”?

    The first week of any internship is the most crucial, because they start to entrust you with work and the quicker you get the associates to give you meaningful work, the faster you can rely on them to give you good feedback which plays a crucial role for a call-back. Also, you need to give your best; seriousness and punctuality goes a long way in making an impression. No matter how small the work is, do it well and you will be noticed.

     

    Where do you see yourself five years from now?

    In five years I see myself as a senior associate. LL.M is definitely a plan, but for now I want to concentrate on what I have right now.

     

    You being from the first batch of NLUO, do you think that being from a relatively new law college made any difference?

    Being the first batch of a law school we did not have any alumni to look up to for help and support, so we had to do everything from the start. This really helped us as it made us more independent and allowed us to witness and build a law school from the scratch.

    Yes, as a new law school we didn’t have a well functioning internship or placement committee in place, so we did face a lot of trouble getting the attention of the law firms and lawyers. Even when it comes to mooting it took us a lot of time to make our mark, we learnt from our mistakes and improved upon them. As a first batch we did realise our geographical disadvantage but we have worked really hard to reduce the affect of the same, right from hosting Stetson, to organising international and national seminar and conferences.

     

    What message would you like to give to our readers?

    I will convey it in the famous words of Walt Disney: “If you can DREAM it, you can DO it.” Obstacles will come in life; no matter where and what you are just work hard, just keep in mind that every time you have to make a choice about anything, always ask yourself whether this goes toward or away from what you want? Always choose what goes towards what you want.

     

  • Manoj Menon, Partner, Dua Associates, on skills which transform an associate to a partner

    Manoj Menon, Partner, Dua Associates, on skills which transform an associate to a partner

    Manoj Menon is a graduate from NLSIU, batch of 1996. He was recruited into a Chicago based firm called Arthur Andersen LLP considered as one of the ‘Big Five’ in Accounting after his graduation. Thereafter in 2004 he became a partner at Dua Associates. After working there for sometime he founded Tatva Legal along with some of his colleagues. In 2013, he moved back to Dua Associates.

    In this interview we speak to him about:

    • Working at an US based accounting firm
    • Becoming a partner of Dua Associates in a short time
    • What it takes to become a Partner from an Associate

    Tell us something about your life before law school.

    I grew up in Cochin and went to high school there. My father and my brother are doctors though I did have a couple of uncles who were practicing lawyers.

     

    The image of a lawyer back in ’91 was neither inspiring nor attractive for most students. What motivated you to choose law as a career?

    While I was growing up, we were made to believe that the only career options available were medicine or engineering. Law was something of a back-up option that you pursued if you did not make it to medical or engineering school! I was nudged into considering law as an option by my uncle who told me about National Law School. NLS was about three years old then and yet to have a graduating batch. It seemed like a good idea at that time and so I went with the flow.

     

    How important do you think mooting is for law students?

    While I wasn’t a mooter in NLS, in retrospect I think mooting can be very useful in helping you hone your research skills as well as to help you analyse issues in a manner you would be required to once you start practicing law. It also forces you to think on your feet and gives you a feel of what litigation could be all about.

     

    If you see that a person you are considering to hire is good at mooting, debating and has a few publications, does it influence your decision to some extent?

    It definitely does not hurt to have additional skill sets and these could be differentiators while evaluating two otherwise well matched candidates. However, I feel that work experience is the most important aspect of your resume and could be the difference between whether you are hired or not. Personally, it is very important that the person I am hiring fits in with the culture of the firm and sometime you have to go with your gut on that one!

     

    Now that you are on the other side of the table, what do you think a fresher should do in order to get hired?

    Andersen was one of the firms that recruited from campus. They had recruited from campus the previous year and so I had friends who had already spent time there and loved the place. Recruiters for Andersen looked beyond just grades and tried to gauge potential of the candidates through various rounds of interview and luckily for me, they saw something in me that they liked. I’m grateful for the opportunity to have worked in Andersen because of the amazing work culture and for the solid foundation that I believe it gave me.

     

    What would you say helped you join the ranks of a partner?

    A partner of a firm is someone who can add value to the firm and help grow the practice. Normally, it involves ability to execute work efficiently as well as to bring in new work. The firm gives you an opportunity to grow your own practice within the umbrella for the firm w ith minimal interference and this helped me grow as a lawyer and make the natural progression towards partnership.

     

    What kind of effort should a young associate put in to work to get it appreciated?

    What I look for in an associate is the willingness to learn and the desire to get better at what they are doing. If you have that, everything else falls into place. Taking responsibility is a huge part of the learning process and when you see that in an associate, you naturally end up pushing good work towards that person and relying on that person.

     

    What does a partner at a Law Firm like Dua Associates do?

    A partner typically starts and ends his day worrying about billing and recoveries! While there is no typical work day, the responsibility extends to sourcing work and ensuring that the work is executed effectively. Keeping your team happy or in the very least content, is the key to sleeping well at night!

     

    When you hire lawyers under you, what kind of skills and profile do you look for?

    Like I said, I look for someone who I feel can learn fast and who fits in with the ethos of the firm. More often than not, you get a feel of the person when you meet him/her and from there on you hope for the best! With working lawyers, work experience is a key factor. With fresh graduates, while internship experience matters, I basically look for a bright person who I feel can learn fast on the job.

     

    How important is it for a law firm partner to be good at business development, or are great lawyering skills enough to become a partner?

    Traditionally, a partner is expected to generate billings for the firm. However, firms adopt different models where certain partners could be rainmakers while others would concentrate more on servicing the work so generated. Partners could also concentrate on specific aspects such as business development or administration of the firm depending on the way a firm is structured. It is important to identify ones specific strengths and work in an organisation where such skill sets are considered relevant while evaluating eligibility for partnership.

     

    Dua Associates have offered internship opportunities to a lot of law students. What would you look for in a cover letter and a CV?

    We typically look for students doing their third year of law or more. While prior internship experience helps, an interest in a particular branch of law or some exposure to the same like attending seminars or publishing articles on the subject would be helpful.

     

    How do you think interns can get noticed in a positive way in the limited time they have?

    Unfortunately, interns are often plied with drudge work. However, if they take initiative and show an interest in taking on work, it surely helps.

     

    Do you think higher studies can be a necessity for a successful legal professional?

    While I don’t think that higher studies are an absolute necessity for a successful career, it makes for some great exposure which can add value to a professional. I believe it is a matter of personal choice but having said that, if you have the opportunity, I would definitely recommend that you grab it.

     

    How does one strike a work-life ba

    I believe how you manage your life is a matter of choice and once you figure out your priorities in life, you will find a way to maintain your work-life balance. An important aspect of the same would also be to work for an organisation which shares your values and which respects the fact that you are entitled to a personal life outside work.

     

    Lastly, what would be your message to law students and young lawyers who aspire to become a partner at a top-notch law firm?

    Be careful, what you wish for!

     

  • Ankit Yadav, LL.M candidate, NYU, on researching with legal luminaries and drafting the perfect memorial

    Ankit Yadav, LL.M candidate, NYU, on researching with legal luminaries and drafting the perfect memorial

    Ankit Yadav is one of the illustrious graduates of 2012 batch from RMLNLU. He subsequently went on to pursue his Masters NYU School of Law. After graduation he went for an LL.M. to New York University. During his tenure as an LL.M. candidate at NYU he worked with many legal luminaries and also had the opportunity to judge in the Philip C. Jessup International Law Moot.

    During this interview we speak to him about:

    • LL.M experience at New York University
    • Researching for Prof. Jose E. Alvarez and Prof. Eda Katharine Tinto
    • Perspective of a judge of Philip C. Jessup on what is an awesome memorial

     

    How would you like to introduce yourself to them?

    I am still a student of law, who is endeavouring to make a mark in this field.

     

    Tell us something about your life before college.

    I am a first generation lawyer. I did my schooling in the science background which, I still believe, helps me in having an objective approach towards various situations.

     

    How did you gravitate towards legal studies?

    I would not go on to the extent of saying that I always dreamt of being a lawyer. But yes, it always appeared to me as a fascinating profession, especially because most great leaders across the globe are/were lawyers. I believe that the study of law helps one relate better to the society and its needs.

     

    How did you go about securing internships at places like top tier firms?

    My idea of doing internships was to get a sense of different areas and work setups in this field (law firms, lawyers’ chambers, governmental and non- governmental organisations), which later allowed me to make an informed career choice.

    Most law students have an apprehension that one can’t get a good internship without having good contacts or knowing someone who can recommend you. Well honestly, I also thought so till the time I was proved wrong. Having a good network of relevant people is always a plus point in this profession.

    However, that does not mean that you cannot secure a good internship without the same.In my opinion, the key to securing a good internship is to apply well in advance and have a cover letter that allows the employer to judge your skills within a period of 30-40 seconds. Most employers get numerous applications every day. Therefore, the cover letter and resume of an applicant should be very concise and well drafted.

    Every internship that I did, not only helped me in honing my skills but also allowed me to decide what kind of lawyer I want to be. Internships teach us time management, team work, work ethics and give us a chance to put our classroom knowledge into practice. In short, internships give law students an insight into the real practice of law. Therefore, I would strongly recommend that law students should take all their internships very seriously.

     

    What was your motivation behind pursuing LL.M.?

    Everyone in my family is a post-graduate and I did not want to be the least literate one. I always wanted to get the knowledge, skills, academic resources and exposure that a world class university offers. Therefore, it was always there at the topmost position of my priority list. The only requirement was to get through one of the leading institutions of the world, which I was fortunate enough to get.

     

    ankit-yadav1How should one go about choosing a university?

    The hard task is for the law students to decide what area of law they want to specialize in. Once that is done, the process becomes relatively easier. Law schools ranking are available online and law students are good at doing online research. One needs to find the best uinversities in their chosen area of specialization. Location of the law school also plays an important role in determining what kind of exposure it would be able to offer to a prospective student. Therefore, a law student should take this into consideration before choosing a university.

     

    Please tell our readers about the application procedure and other requirements for an LL.M. at NYU.

    The application procedure for an LL.M at NYU is almost the same as other Universities of US and UK. All the applicants are required to submit a statement of purpose, writing samples and letters of recommendation along with the application form. All the information is available on the official website of NYU.

     

    Does NYU provide students with scholarships?

    Yes, like most leading universities, NYU also offers merit-based scholarships to prospective students. Also, apart from the scholarships offered by law schools, a number of charitable organisations offer merit-based scholarships to students who have secured or are hopeful of securing admissions in well recognized law schools abroad.

     

    Was there a lot of academic work?

    Yes, the work load becomes overwhelming at the beginning, but one gets used to the system after a while. Reading or writing assignments are allotted for every class and one has to go prepared to be able to understand the discussions properly.

     

    Please tell us about your experience working with Prof. Jose E. Alvarez and also Prof. Eda Katharine Tinto as Research Assistant.

    The work I did during my research assistantships was very enriching not just because of its academic value but also because of the amount of experience and knowledge I gained while working with the people who are widely recognized for their contribution to the American and international society.

     

    How has the experience of being Judge at the international rounds of Philip C. Jessup International Moot Court Competition been?

    It was truly a wonderful experience, being at the other side of the podium at the most prestigious moot court competition of the world, sharing the dais with and getting to interact with some of the well known faces of international law and just being a part of the entire process.

    The primary qualities that every judge looks for is a strong understanding of the basic concepts of international law and a proper appreciation of the facts provided in the Compromis. Once these are present, then eloquence, demeanour, poise, innovative arguments and persuasive skills are the qualities that bring out the difference between a winning team and the rest.

     

    If I want to write an awesome memo, what are the relevant skills and how should I go about learning them?

    An awesome memo would be the culmination of an awesome research into an awesomely drafted document. When I grade a memorial, I look for good amount of research and its proper application in the facts provided. Every word that is mentioned in a Compromis/problem statement should be presumed to be relevant while drafting a memorial.

    The language used should be formal and simple and must be as concise as possible. These are the skills that can only be acquired with practice. Therefore, it is imperative to have a first draft prepared well before the submission deadline and then keep refining it.

    In my opinion, MUNs, debates and moot courts are a great way of developing advocacy skills (research, drafting and oratory skills among other things). Unlike regular academic coursework, these activities involve the thrill of getting immediate results for all the labour you put in them. They are also a great way of boosting up the confidence of a law student and to learn something which may not be  a part of your academic coursework.

     

    Was your typical workday during your internships in India any different from your workday abroad?

    Not very different. Nowadays, most employers in India have also become more respectful towards their employees. They have started recognizing a proper work-life balance is necessary for employees to be able to perform up to their potential. I am hopeful that it will keep getting better from here on.

     

    What are your future plans?

    My future plans are to be a successful litigator. In the next five years, I want to be a well recognized name in this field.

     

    Lastly, what would be your message to a law student who wants to excel as a lawyer?

    Believe in yourself! If you are determined to be successful, no one can stop you. All you need is to stay focused and motivated. The legal profession needs to transform to keep pace with the changing society and our generation will bring about that change.

    “I have, let’s say, sixty years to live. Most of that time will be spent working. I’ve chosen the work I want to do. If I find no joy in it, then I’m only condemning myself to sixty years of torture. And I can find the joy only if I do my work in the best way possible to me. But the best is a matter of standards—and I set my own standards. I inherit nothing. I stand at the end of no tradition. I may, perhaps, stand at the beginning of one.”

    – Ayn Rand, The Fountainhead.

  • Akansha Dubey, LL.M. candidate, Cambridge, on researching, publishing and editing for top-notch journals and being a competitor and judge at the Willem C Vis

    Akansha Dubey, LL.M. candidate, Cambridge, on researching, publishing and editing for top-notch journals and being a competitor and judge at the Willem C Vis

    Akansha Dubey is a graduate of 2013 batch of NLU, Jodhpur. She then went on to pursue her Master’s degree from Cambridge, with a specialisation in International Trade Law, Dispute Resolution, International Environment Law and Human Rights. She had success at the 18th Willem C. Vis and had also recently came across the opportunity to judge the moot as an Arbitrator. She has publications in renowned journals to her credit, and had also taken part in various international conferences and summer courses. She also holds a lot of experience interning in top-notch law firms and as a judicial clerk for Supreme Court judges.

    In this interview we speak to her about:

    • Researching, publishing and being an editor of academic articles in top-notch journals
    • Interning at the largest law firms and clerking under SC judges
    • An LL.M. from Cambridge in International Law

     

    How did you gravitate towards Law?

    It may sound a bit clichéd, but since my parents were judges inevitably the legal profession and its quirks were an integral part of my childhood. The dinner table conversations exposed me to the world of legal politics and procedure. Though initially my interest was limited, but with the emergence of novel legal avenues apart from the traditional ones I became highly inclined to pursue this field.

    To summarize my life at NLU, Jodhpur I would say it was hectic since I wanted to pursue a variety of interests and multi-tasked during my five years. From the beginning, I was interested in academics, moots and research work. Apart from participating in national and international moot court competitions I was also a part of various paper presentations and even secured national and international publications. As a part of the Centre for Research and Training in Arbitration Law (CARTAL) we introduced the flagship arbitration journal of NLU Jodhpur, Indian Journal of Arbitration Law, and I served as the Senior Editor and the Editor-in-Chief successively. Beyond the sphere of academics and co-curricular, I was a regular participant of the frequent legal aid/awareness camps as well.

     

    What does it take to be a great mooter?

    (Akansha has won the Friedrich Eismann Award at the 18th Willem C. Vis International Commercial Arbitration Moot, Vienna. She was also awarded Best Student Advocate and her team was chosen the Best team at Dip Chand Memorial Moot.)

    As far as these two successes are concerned the major contributing factors were the team-work, the long hours of research and the specific focus on prior practice of the oral rounds. Though the preparation for international and national moots differ the importance of an intricate factual scrutiny, exhaustive research, precise expression and innovative thinking cannot be undermined.

    Well, frankly, there is no formula to being a ‘great’ mooter. At the outset, it is essential that you pursue mooting as an interest and not merely as a CV-building exercise.

    With a passion for mooting the long hours of work and commitment become easier and enjoyable. To build the conventional research and oratory skills observation is a good tool. It may be through observing the varied mooting styles of your seniors, analyzing international teams through videos or browsing through winning memorials on the websites. Nevertheless, these should assist in finding your own mooting style.

    Personally, I believe it is better to transition from national to international moots and keep in mind that most of these competitions test not only research, knowledge and oration but also the understanding of the contemporary relevance of the concerned area of law. Such a comprehensive outlook to the moot problem makes the arguments more assertive, pertinent and impressive in a competition. Thus, this can help in building an inspiring and notable mooting style.

     

    How should one go about writing papers and getting the same published?

    According to me the most important steps are to narrow down the area of your interest and find a contemporary perspective to the concerned area or topic. Most of the international publications look out for current relevance, fluid language and originality. In case the student wishes to pursue certain specialised areas of law it is better to structure the publications within the framework of the current developments in these areas. Hence, prior publications will provide more credibility to the student as an author when their works are considered by reputed international journals.

    Another strategy could be to work upon the class room projects to develop them into papers and thus approach national or international journals. One important lesson I learnt was never to hesitate to approach journals, you never know when a topic may click with any of them. Since international publishers always go through the CV of the author it is important not to undermine a national publication, which may prove to be an asset when being considered by an international journal.

     

    What are the top three things you consider as sine qua non for a great research work?

    (Akansha has held positions like Editor-in-Chief for the Indian Journal of Arbitration Law, Editor, Cambridge Journal of International and Comparative Law in the past and presently she is a Legal Research Fellow at the Centre for International Sustainable Development Law.)

    It is difficult to enumerate the three most important characteristics since research work is dependent on various factors and circumstances. Nevertheless, as per my experience some things contribute more to a notable research work. First, the ability to conduct a focused research without deviating from the aim of the concerned work and the target audience. Secondly, even though the research is required to be focused it should not be restrained. A holistic understanding is required with the help of drawing links with other overlapping subjects and areas.

    Thirdly, I believe the research work should depict a present-day view which illustrates the practical application of the research and thus does not merely put forth a theoretical understanding. Until and unless the research work can be applied in the modern world to tackle the emerging needs and problems, it fails to make a mark in the field of academics.

     

    Do you think participating in extracurricular activities like MUNs, Debates, Seminars and Conferences proves to be of help to law students?

    (Akansha has attended a number of both national and international conferences like International Congress of Environmental Research in Mauritius, International Law Students Association Summer Conference in Istanbul, and a lot more.)

    There is no doubt that these activities lead to more exposure to new legal spheres, interaction with the global community of law students, academics and scholars and even prove to be an avenue to branch out of the legal arena. This can help students choose, create or strengthen their interest areas and give them a chance to see world issues from varying perspectives.

    As I mentioned before, if these activities are undertaken in areas of interest they can prove to be beneficial with respect to professional aspects as well. On one hand seminars and conferences may result in publication of selected papers and on the other MUNs are a great opportunity for networking. In case one wishes to pursue research, academics or even apply for higher studies these activities are seen as illustrations of the student’s focus area, awareness of world issues and work undertaken so far.

     

    How did you apply for the Summer Course in International Commercial Arbitration by the International Chamber of Commerce, Paris?

    During my internships and moots, I had worked extensively in the area of dispute resolution especially international commercial arbitration. Since I wished to pursue the subject further when I came across the opportunity to participate in an international summer course I was very much inclined towards it. I learnt about the summer course online while generally researching on the current developments under the subject area. The application procedure was simple which required me to send a ‘Statement of Purpose’ and my CV to be considered for the course. Once I was selected for the course I was intimated by the organisers who offered to waive off my tuition fee.

    The summer course was an enriching experience where the practicing arbitrators and counsels of the ICC discussed the contemporary issues with the students. Also, the diverse group of participants helped me understand their national viewpoints to different legal quandaries in the area of arbitration law.

    During the course we visited various key institutions including the OECD and learnt more about the functioning the ICC and its rules when conducting an arbitration hearing. Apart from the academic sphere this course fostered cultural and social exchange amongst the students involving developed and developing country debates to surface as well.

     

    Tell us about your internsip experience.

    (Akansha has interned with top tier firms and organisations like Amarchand, Trilegal, Competition Commission of India, and Parliamentary Research Services.)

    All my firm internships were through the Placement Committee in the college and primarily based on the shortlisting of the CV based on the CGPA. Since I was quite inclined towards legal research I endeavoured to look up different research-based internships wherein I applied individually. With the organizations like the CCI or the PRS a standard and uniform procedure is followed, CCI focuses on the contemporary relevance of the research proposal submitted by interns which they plan to pursue in the four week internship. In case of PRS, a rigorous procedure of a questionnaire and an interview is followed.

    I believe the key to securing research-based internships is to keep looking for new opportunities through legal websites, blogs and social media and apply in the areas of your interest. While most of the top tier firms follow a strict policy of receiving applications though the college Placement Committee itself, the research organizations welcome interested applicants based on their willingness and enthusiasm.

     

    How relevant did you find your law school education with the kind of work you were required to do at law firms?

    This is a difficult question since most of the law school work was theoretical with rarely any understanding of the practical implications. When I worked as an intern in a legal firm I had to change my theoretical notions of law to accommodate the challenges of the practical working of law. Undeniably, the theoretical understanding of the legal framework provided a foundation of my understanding but the internship required to build upon it extensively. Each law firm internship was a new experience which gradually depicted the lack of an application-based teaching methodology in the law schools of the country.

    Though all my internships contributed tremendously to my knowledge and experience, some of them made the most impression with respect to my career choices. First, the internship in the Competition Commission of India exposed me to the policy formulation and implementation in the sphere of national competition laws. As I worked upon a research report for three weeks, I realized my emerging interest and aptitude for research work and policy deliberation. Second, both my judicial clerkships helped me appreciate the role of policy implications while formulating and implementing the law.

    My discussions with the two sitting Supreme Court judges reinforced my beliefs of how law and policy need to simultaneously work together for the growth of a civilized society. Thus, as I felt this relationship was greatly neglected I wished to strengthen this under the Indian legal framework.

     

    What do you feel about the importance of a good CGPA & contacts when attempting to secure an internship?

    Well, I cannot deny the excessive reliance on both as tools to help secure internships with reputed firms, lawyers or even research organizations. A good CGPA definitely helps in securing internships through the college Placement Committee wherein it is treated as a benchmark of differentiation amongst the students. In the present times students do not hesitate to use contacts to secure internships as well. Nevertheless, the lack of these tools does not close all opportunities.

    Undoubtedly, the top law firms and lawyers rely on these tools to judge students but if one is willing to opt for the modest options the experience gained here proves to be of great value. The research-based internships also give more importance to the interest, enthusiasm and willingness of the students. Thus, the lack of these tools should not dishearten the students but encourage them to look for more avenues to gather valuable experience.

     

    Why did you choose to do a Judicial Internship?

    (Akansha was engaged as a judicial clerk under Justice Katju and also Justice H.L. Gokhale, in the Supreme Court during her graduation.)

    During my third year in NLU Jodhpur I was convinced that my aptitude and interest lay either in the field of legal research or litigation. A judicial internship embodies a rare opportunity to interact with the learned individuals presiding over the highest court of the country. Apart from the charm of the daily interaction with such stalwarts, this experience is much significant when applying for higher studies.

    Most of the reputed international universities attach high regard to any work done with the judges of the Supreme Court. In case one wishes to pursue litigation this can set the stage for being recommended by a sitting Supreme Court judge to a lawyer of your choice. This gives more credibility and experience to the application whether in context of higher studies or litigation.

     

    What kind of tasks were you given as a judicial intern?

    In my experience, it is not a difficult task to secure a judicial internship when applying from third year onwards. The standard procedure is to fill the application form available online on the website of the Supreme Court of India and send it along with the CV by post to the Supreme Court Registry. The only requirement is for the application to be made through the education institution and not by the candidate personally. The institution is intimated of the selected candidates and their dates a month before the start of the internship.

    Most of the candidates who apply are selected and thus allocated on a random basis to the judges. I believe, in my case the high academic performance and various moots as well as publications could have contributed to the selection process. As an intern the work given is similar to a judicial clerk. A judicial clerkship is a one year paid programme to assist a sitting Supreme Court judge after graduation.

    The tasks include summarizing the case briefs, participating in case discussions and researching on various points of law. Such an internship may involve assisting in drafting judgments as well. But the highlights of these internships are the interactions and discussions with the judges and understanding the factors considered by them when drafting judgments which serve as the law of the country.

     

    What was your motivation behind pursuing LL.M?

    Since I was very clear on pursuing either research or litigation in my third year of law I began considering the option of higher studies as well. During my internships I was strongly inclined towards the area of law and policy and thus started looking for related career opportunities. In this competitive field a higher degree provided the much needed edge to the applicant.

    Also, since I was increasingly interested in dispute resolution and undertook a specialization in international trade I decided to link these subjects to the area of interest. With this emerged the need and desire to pursue an LL.M degree in the future. Hence, it proved to be an amalgamation of my interest as well as a requirement for better prospects in my chosen career path.

    I wished to pursue an LL.M in pure international law subjects and thus applied to the universities known for the courses of my choice. Moreover, an LL.M abroad opened up a different level of academic, cultural and diverse experience at the international platform.

     

    Why did you opt for University of Cambridge?

    I wanted to undertake higher studies in the specialized regimes of international law especially trade and dispute resolution, therefore the aim was to apply for the reputed universities based on the course of my choice. University of Cambridge was ranked the highest in relation to the faculty and courses of international law and hence was a preferred choice.

    Other universities I applied to consist of traditional LL.Ms in the Harvard University, University of California (Berkeley) and specialized courses like International Business Regulation, Litigation and Arbitration in the New York University, International Economic Law and Policy LL.M (Barcelona) and Master of International Disputes Settlement (Geneva).

     

    What do you think contributed towards your candidature at Cambridge?

    With respect to my selection in the University of Cambridge I strongly believe that I was able to show a link between the focus of my research work and experience to the courses I wished to pursue. My long term goal of pursuing trade/economic policy was complemented by my specialization in International Trade, research publications and internships with respect to the same subject area.

    In order to get accepted as an LL.M candidate at one of the reputed international universities it is important to showcase high academic excellence accompanied with a strong interest in the courses the student wishes to choose. Also, the student’s ‘Statement of Purpose’ and CV should sufficiently depict the need for an LL.M to achieve the ultimate goal he/she desires.

    And lastly, an LLM candidate should depict a focused interest rather than an ambiguous desire to opt for higher studies with no set goal. These are essential characteristics to present an impressive LL.M application in the international sphere.

     

    How was the academic schedule? Was there a lot of academic work?

    University of Cambridge offers the LL.M students to undertake four courses of their choice and allows for an optional thesis/dissertation in one of them. The schedule consists of weekly lectures, seminars, supervisor meetings with respect to the thesis and guest lectures for the interested students.

    Like most of the LL.M degrees abroad the nine month long academic programme of the University of Cambridge was short and rigorous. Due to the short period of time there was always the pressure to finish the daily readings, work on the thesis/dissertation simultaneously and also attend the weekly lectures/seminars. Even though the examinations were preceded by a long holiday, the detailed analysis of the issues and high standards raised the expectations from the students.

     

    How has the experience judging moots been?

    (Akansha has been a Memorial Judge at the Willem C. Vis International Commercial Moot, Vienna and also a Judge at the Monroe E. Price International Media Law Moot, Oxford. )

    I found that working in the capacity of a judge in both the moot court competitions was an enriching experience filled with valuable insights. Being a memorial judge I looked for correct identification of the issues, formulation of the arguments, use of factual and legal knowledge and precise expression. As an oral round judge the focus was more on the comprehensive understanding of the subject area, usage of authorities, link between facts and law and the confidence, assertiveness of the speaker.

    The Oxford experience helped me interact with barristers, academicians and counsels from different legal arenas. Also, the moot participants were a diverse group as well.

     

    What are your long-term goals?

    As a professional I aim to pursue the field of legal research and policy essentially. After completing my LL.M course I will be joining the National Council of Applied Economic Research (NCAER) as a Special Assistant to the Director General in New Delhi. This is my very first step and I hope it proves to be a good experience for learning the practical implications and relationships of economic policy and law.

    In the coming years I aim to publish more regarding the new developments in the area of international trade, environment and dispute resolution. Also, I will be looking to undertake further research in the form of a PhD. Ultimately, I wish to join the United Nations Organization as a part of one of the specialized bodies concerned with the areas of my research work.

     

    Lastly, what would be your message to law students interested in going for higher studies from India?

    I would only encourage them to find a passion before they commit to a year of higher studies. With a clear idea of your inclinations and aptitudes an LL.M can prove to be an asset in not only the professional but also the personal development of the individual.

  • Murali Neelakantan, Global General Counsel, Cipla,  on work as a Senior Partner at Khaitan, being the first India educated Partner at a London Law Firm and charting out a successful legal career

    Murali Neelakantan, Global General Counsel, Cipla, on work as a Senior Partner at Khaitan, being the first India educated Partner at a London Law Firm and charting out a successful legal career

    Murali Neelakantan shared with us his insights and advice on mooting, skills of a lawyer and on being the current Global General Counsel of Cipla earlier in another interview on Murali Neelakantan on being Global General Counsel at Cipla, necessary skills of a lawyer, judging at Manfred Lachs & Jessup and importance of mooting.

    In this interview we speak to him about:

    • Being a Senior Partner at Khaitan
    • Being one of the first few India educated lawyers to have become a partner at a London law firm
    • Higher studies and the exposure one can get from them

     

    What does being a partner at a big law firm like KCo entail? What would a typical workday look like?

    A client sees a law firm partner as an experienced lawyer who can help it take key decisions, especially when there is no clear legal position and one needs to completely trust the judgment of an expert to predict the future. For example, when a client was considering investing in an Indian telecom company that had been granted 2G licenses, the key issue for me was the validity of the license – the only asset of the telecom company at the time of the investment.

    My view in 2008, based on my own research and due diligence, was that there was a major risk that the licenses could be cancelled and the client needed protection against this with a clear indemnity so that the full investment was refunded if the licenses were cancelled. As everyone knows today, the 2G licenses were subsequently cancelled by the Supreme Court, leaving the investors with no remedy.

    An English court recently held in the case of one of these investors that, the full amount of the investment ought to be refunded with interest. Many other investors in Indian companies whose licenses were cancelled have not been successful in claims against their Indian joint venture partners. Perhaps their lawyers did not see this risk or could not persuade the client to address the risk in this manner.

    A partner is also an owner of the law firm and is expected to take full responsibility for the firm’s success. Every firm is organised differently but, by and large, it is expected that every partner will look out for all the others and work towards making the firm successful and profitable. Often, partners have specific roles which suit their skills and interest. For example, one may be interested in HR matters like campus recruitment, another may take it upon himself to ensure training for all the lawyers, others may be focused on managing the firm’s relationships with professional networks like the IBA, IPBA, INTA, etc, and some others may focus on writing opinions so that there is one view across the firm on key contemporary issues.

    My work day begins quite early and by the time I get to the office, I have usually read all my email messages and planned my day. I try not to carry forward work to the next day. It would be difficult to generalise but a typical work day would include responding to client questions, reviewing and discussing drafts of various documents prepared by the team, reviewing articles or presentations that the team is preparing, every now and then, working on pitches to existing clients for new work or to prospective clients and lunch with fellow partners or clients. There is also work for the firm like the HR team meeting, preparation for internal and client training, creating of “know how” and mentoring junior lawyers. In addition to this since I was keen to judge a few moot courts every year, I would ensure that I had enough time in the day and on weekends to prepare thoroughly.

    During the Jessup season, from late November to March, preparation and marking memorials takes up most of my free time. That is also the cricket season and I try to play as many weekend games as I can. I try to leave the office at a reasonable hour so that I get some time at home before the family is asleep. However, I do ensure that I read all my emails before I go to bed, take stock of the day and think about what tomorrow’s plan will be. Unlike most people, I switch off my cell phone just before going to bed!

    How important is it for a law firm partner to be good at business development?

    Business development is a much maligned word. Those who “specialise in business development” will very quickly realise that clients don’t trust them. Clients want to meet lawyers who are able to help them with the law, not just glib talkers. So unless one has real knowledge of the law and the issues confronting the client’s industry sector, no amount of smooth talking or entertaining will be sustainable in attracting and keeping clients.

    Seeking out new clients is interesting but even those lawyers will need to spend most of their time working on legal issues with real clients, to have credibility during the pitch. Nothing impresses a client more than a lawyer who understands the clients’ industry sector and has a good knowledge of the solution for its issues. Obviously there will be some lawyers who prefer not to be involved in pitches but will be very effective in building relationships with existing clients and keeping them satisfied with excellent work. Rainmakers can make rain but that is just wasted water if no one is there to plant the seeds, tend to crops and harvest it in time. A good firm should have a diversity of partners with complementary skills and interests.

    It is almost impossible to have a clear list of qualities or criteria that separates partners from other lawyers who are not, but I have always felt that promotion to partnership, at least in the leading international law firms, is a signal that you have been accepted as a leader by your peers, ready to represent them all in public. I saw it as an achievement and an endorsement of my skills.

    What are the typical challenges you faced on your way to become a partner at Ashurst or at Arnold & Porter?

    It has been quite some time since I went to London and much has changed there since. So I am not really sure if my experiences are really relevant any more. There were many challenges but almost all of them can be traced to the fact that I didn’t either study or train there. Since I went there as a third year associate, I had no friends at the firm and the law school network didn’t exist in the days before Facebook. These days, law students get training contracts and have their seniors from the law school there to guide them through the system.

    When I landed in London, I hardly knew anyone there. Almost every little thing was a challenge. For example, since I didn’t have a credit history in the UK, it was difficult to rent an apartment or get a bank account or credit card. Unlike most of my peers who had a network of family and friends within and outside the firm, I had to find my way around.If there was a situation where one needed help on a tax issue, my peers would have a friend who they know from university or as fellow trainees in the tax team, who they could call. I wouldn’t even know where the tax lawyers in the firm were!

    Being a vegetarian teetotaller didn’t help with socialising in a country where the heart of the social scene was the pub. It was cricket that saved me. Simmons had a long tradition of supporting cricket, rugby, softball, netball and hockey and players of all abilities were warmly welcomed. There was always a very enjoyable dinner in the Long Room with an eminent cricketer as the speaker to kick off the cricket season. It was my opportunity to know people from all over the firm besides playing cricket which I loved, even though I was not very skilled. I also played for a team composed of lawyers in Barnes called the Nashers, after Malcolm Nash, whose claim to fame was that he was the bowler who was hit for 6 sixes in an over by Gary Sobers. I love the way the English are understated and don’t take themselves too seriously. Cricket was the highlight of the English summer for me and I miss it very much. Watching India play in England, battling the conditions at Nottingham and winning the Natwest trophy against all odds will always be a cherished memory.

    Building a practice, a euphemism for having a list of profitable clients who are loyal to you was, and still is, a key qualification for partnership. While I was working on English and international deals like many of my peers, one needed to find a niche. It was ironic, being a teetotaller, that many of the significant deals I did initially were for Interbrew, a family owned Belgian brewer which, over the years has become AmBev, the largest brewer in the world. Being one of the few Indian lawyers in an international law firm in London at a time when Indian companies were looking to expand in the UK and Europe and several international corporations were looking to establish themselves in India, was fortuitous. Simmons was always recognised as a great place to work, taking very good care of its people. Senior associates were trained for partnership over a few years so that they always knew what was expected of partners and were equipped for the role when elected. Jeremy Sivyer, a partner at Simmons and my mentor, encouraged me to use this opportunity to build a practice focused on India and Indian clients.

    During 2004 – 2005, I started receiving calls from headhunters for opportunities in other law firms who wanted to build an India focused practice. It was also a time that the US law firms were establishing themselves in London and there were some clients who preferred to have one firm for both English and US law matters. Simmons had a joint venture with Fried Frank for some time but when that ended, there was a risk that corporate and capital markets work that had a US element would be out of reach for me at Simmons.

    At that time, I met Ian Kirby, a partner at Arnold & Porter who charmed me into accepting equity partnership at Arnold & Porter. Arnold & Porter is one of the great American institutions – a firm that was well known for its diversity, strong views on civil liberties, emphasis on pro bono and like Simmons, a reputation for being one of the great places to work. It was an opportunity to test if I had indeed built a practice! I resigned from Simmons on the day of the London bomb blasts and started work at Arnold & Porter the following Monday.

    No one I know who worked at Arnold & Porter has anything but nice things to say about it. It may never be the most profitable law firm but it is, as someone described it, a collection of the brightest stars in the night sky. It has always had some of the most eminent lawyers as partners, those who are universally acknowledged by clients and peers as the best in their field of specialisation but who worked in the most collegiate manner. It was an honour to work with many of them and I, like many of their other alumni, always look out for opportunities to work with lawyers at both these firms.

    What prompted the shift to Simmons & Simmons from Nishith Desai Associates?

    I joined Nishith Desai soon after I graduated. I had interned there in my final year and Nishith was extremely kind to me. In fact, after my internship in February 1996, I spent many weekends in Bombay during my final trimester working with him. He has said very often that my first day at work with him was on his annual trip to the US visiting clients and law firms. Nishith was keen, with almost a childlike enthusiasm, to always learn something new. At the time, his was a very niche practice in a small office in Nariman Point. The global reputation that he enjoyed for his international tax expertise was exceptional. Almost all the tax law that I know, I learnt from him but he encouraged me to find my own niche.

    It was a time when technology companies were just breaking out and I had the opportunity to work on the Indian aspects of a NASDAQ listing of an IT company called IMR Global. With that experience, I pitched to Infosys to list on NASDAQ. I guess they were surprised that an Indian law firm had thought of it and knew how to do it. It was the last deal I did in India before I left for the UK. There was quite a buzz about all aspects of the technology wave including broadcasting with significant uncertainty on legal issues. Investing in research meant that I was able to work with Zee TV, Usaha Tegas and Panamsat as clients.

    The other sector that was beginning to look promising was infrastructure. With the personal goodwill that Nishith enjoyed, I managed to work on deals in this sector. While all the other law firms were already advising on several power and road projects, we managed to get on to the Birla AT&T financing, a small role advising SBI. No one in the firm knew exactly how to do it because a non recourse financing for a telco had never been done but between two young associates, we got it done.

    Another example was the opportunity to work on the first common carrier oil pipeline project for Petronet, which had just been established. There was no concept in India of a pipeline being a common carrier and it was the extensive research of the commercial and regulatory models for pipelines around the world, with the CFO of Petronet, Sidharath Kapur, currently the CFO of GMR, that helped us put together a bankable set of documents for Petronet.

    Similarly, someone I knew in Bangalore told me about an elevated light rail project that was being conceived by the state government. There seemed to be constitutional issues since railways was a Union subject in the Constitution. My research found a way out of it and we decided to pitch the idea of a new enabling legislation for the government of Karnataka. Since we didn’t really know all the aspects of the system, we looked for expertise overseas. Simmons & Simmons had been advising Railtrack in the UK for many years and also on railway projects in other countries and they were keen to work with us on this opportunity. Two of the Simmons partners who worked with us were Jeremy Sivyer and Colin Leaver who were keen on building the Simmons brand in India. It was Jeremy who, after working with me for a few months, asked if I had considered working at an international law firm in London. One thing led to another and I eventually joined Simmons in 1999.

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    What strategies should an Indian law student adopt if they want to work at a London law firm?

    Since international law firms are recruiting directly from campus and also offering internship and training contracts, I would think getting an LLM from the country one wishes to practice in is the best opportunity for lawyers who are interested in practicing law overseas. This opportunity did not exist when I graduated from law school. It has now become very difficult to move to an international law firm, as I did, after a few years of working in India. Similarly, very few of those who have gone overseas recently to study for an LL.M have been able to find jobs in international law firms. It therefore seems to me that a foreign LL.M is unlikely to be valuable to either an international law firm or an Indian law firm.

    Does Cipla offer internship opportunity to law students?

    Cipla has not had interns from law schools but it is something that we are considering. The qualities that I expect to see in an intern are exactly what I would like to see in a law graduate. Obviously the interns will have had fewer opportunities but it is possible to demonstrate those qualities in the first three years of law school.

    How do you think interns can get noticed in a positive way in the limited time they have?

    All interns have to do is exhibit the qualities that we expect them to showcase. A keen intern who does all the work given enthusiastically, looks out for opportunities to exhibit personality and skills will definitely get noticed. There is always work for those who do a good job and every employer is looking at interns as potential hires and internships as the opportunity to observe and evaluate them. We have nothing to gain from disappointing or ignoring interns.

    Do you think higher studies are a necessity for a successful legal professional?

    There are certain career paths that require specialised knowledge and it would definitely be helpful to pursue further education. Many alumni have careers in the UN and other international organisations. Those at the UNHCR would have benefited from a thorough knowledge of refugee law, for example. However, I am not sure if there is great value in an LL.M if one is likely to be back in India to be a litigator. This is really a question to ask from the many lawyers who have studied overseas. What studying and living overseas does, is make one aware that there is definitely more than one way of doing almost everything and one should not take anything for granted. That perspective is of some value but is perhaps not valued much by Indian employers currently.

    How do you maintain work-life balance?

    All organisations have their own culture and it is really for the interns to research, experience and understand this for themselves. There will be trade-offs to be made since no place of employment is perfect in all respects. No one who has worked with me has complained about lacking a work life balance. Since I have never found it to be an issue for me, I can only hypothesise that there is a mismatch in the expectations of the students and reality. I am surprised to hear this since all of them have the opportunity to see it for themselves during internships. The initial years of work will not be hard for those who, through law school, have been working in a disciplined manner on multiple tasks to tight deadlines.

    My own view is that young lawyers don’t invest in themselves by working on building expertise and personality. There comes a point very quickly in a lawyer’s career when one should know the law in their area of specialisation but those who delegate research to interns and due diligence to their juniors will find that their foundation is unstable.

    One will be successful only if one can work with colleagues and clients and that is based less on expertise in law, which many lawyers will be expected to have, but more on one’s personality. A passion, even unrelated to the law, is essential to stand out. I know clients who are fanatical about movies and a lawyer who shares that passion would find it easier to relate to such a client. Legal service is not a product where one can easily demonstrate relative superiority over competition. To be appreciated for the work that one does, being liked by the client and having a personal relationship is critical.

    Lastly, what would be your message to an Indian student pursuing a law degree?

    Law can be an avenue to pursue any passion that one has. If one is interested in cricket, I would think that if one cannot play the IPL, the next best thing would be to be a lawyer who represents the players, teams, sponsors, organisers, etc. Similarly, if one was passionate about music but will not make it as a professional musician, there is a great opportunity to work with the music industry. The list of opportunities for a law student is almost endless. I hope each of them finds their passion and is able to pursue it through a career in the law.

     

  • Tanuj Kalia, Founder, Lawctopus, on his passion for entrepreneurship, blogging, and plans for the future

    Tanuj Kalia, Founder, Lawctopus, on his passion for entrepreneurship, blogging, and plans for the future

    Tanuj KAlia graduated from NUJS, batch of 2013. He is founder, CEO, and publishing editor of Lawctopus, an online portal designed to help law students. The website has been featured in leading dailies such as the Economic Times, The Telegraph, among others. His other achievements include being student mentor for law students at IMS Learning Resources; research intern at A.K. Bansal and Advocates,  Fidus Law Chambers, Research Foundation for Governance in India, among others.

    In this interview we speak to him about:

    • Combining law with his passion for entrepreneurship
    • Working as Vice President of vakilsearch
    • The future of Lawctopus

     

    How would you like to introduce yourself to our readers?

    I am Tanuj Kalia, born and brought-up in a small town in Himachal called Sundernagar. I started writing poems when I was 9, ended up doing law from NUJS, Kolkata, and started Lawctopus.com thanks to a heady mix of serendipity and chicken pox.

     

    Tell us something about your life before law school.

    My childhood was spent in a small town in Himachal Pradesh, Sundernagar, and it was an awesome idyllic place with lots of piddu ball cricket. For my Class 11 and 12 and LST I was in Chandigarh, where I did nothing but study well and hard.

     

    What motivated you to pursue law?

    I was pretty weak in Maths. I could actually feel my brain cells’ synapses give way when I tried to do any mathematical sums. Also, I was quite good in English. My parents never forced me to do Engineering etc., and it was my dad who brought home the 2008 NLSIU paper. After seeing the questions I was like “This requires writing, yippy!”. And so I was in. Also my dad is a civil servant and had studied law, so he knew a bit about the profession.

     

    How did you get into blogging?

    (Tanuj was awarded ‘Best Legal Blogger in India’ by LegallyIndia.com.)

    I started writing and blogging for Legally India accidentally. When Legally India had just started, I had e-mailed Kian (the founder editor) that I wanted to intern under a good family law lawyer and could not find any information on it. Kian, the fantastic person that he is, put up my query on LI forums where I did get some good replies.

    We got introduced this way and I told him that I loved writing and wanted to write for his website. The freelance rates for Legally India are top-notch and Kian is an excellent mentor. My first write-up for Legally India was on ‘Internships’.

    I was a reluctant blogger, too. But Kian sort of goaded me into writing. And Legal Poet took off.

     

    How does one become an excellent writer?

    Innate talent is required. But it is just the starting point. If you are not talented, but work hard at this craft, you can get good, but maybe not great at it. Similarly, if you are super talented but do not work hard, you will remain just average.

    I do not think I am up there to offer advice yet. But still, write from the gut, use simple words, short sentences, have shorter paragraphs. And then, edit ruthlessly.

     

    Tell us about your life at NUJS.

    It did get monotonous for me in the first year, when I was like, “Hey, what should I do?”

    I played quite a bit of cricket then and made it into the University team. So yes, cricket took a bit of time then. Also, I was convinced that ‘internships’ were the be all and end all of a successful career in law and I researched like crazy on internships too.

    In my second year, I took to blogging. In third year it was IDIA and Lawctopus. In the fourth year, love made me crazy! ” And hey! Is there even a fifth year in law school?

     

    What kind of internships did you do while you were a student?

    I stopped interning after my third year, because Lawctopus was doing well and in my view working on it was as useful as any internship. I interned at a lot of small places doing excellent work.

    My internships sort of convinced me that I can do something similar what these people (the founders of the places I was interning at) are doing and that I should do ‘something of my own’.

    I interned at Malhotra and Malhotra Associates in Chandigarh, which is a nice family and immigration law firm; RFGI, a think tank based in Ahmedabad; Fidus Law Chambers, an IP and Sports Law firm in Noida. I also worked under Ashwinie Kumar Bansal, an author/WIPO mediator.

     

    What are the skills you have learnt at internships and you could not have learnt otherwise?

    Not skills as such, but internships gave me a perspective.

    Fidus Law Chambers taught me that sometimes you can suck, and it’s ok.

    RFGI taught me how a small group of young people was making good changes, both big and small.

    Malhotra and Malhotra taught me, that, well, there’s loads of money to be made in law.

     

    How adept are you in Search Engine Marketing and Search Engine Optimization?

    I really do not have proficiency in these areas. But yes, I did a one month course in SEO/SEM so that when I talk to a tech guy I can understand what he says and he can understand what I want.

     

    How did you fare in your academics at NUJS?

    I did well in my first year. From my third year onwards I took exams just to pass them. So, I used to curse myself if I scored anything above 45 marks (40 is the passing mark, so getting a 50 did not make sense; why work that hard for something you do not want). I ended up in the middle of my batch.

    There was academic pressure, but I did not take it. My parents were again okay with it. They told me, “Complete law in five years, and do whatever you want.”

     

    What did you do after your graduation?

    I did not sit for campus placements in my fifth year. I was not looking for placements really, but I was sort of ‘open’.

    Now vakilSearch is a very exciting company and I knew about it since my third year and had track its (and Akosha’s) growth since then. Both the companies were an amalgamation of law, entrepreneurship and big change which appealed to me.

    The job and vakilSearch happened accidentally. I was on phone with Hrishikesh Datar (the CEO of vakilsearch) regarding some tie-up with Lawctopus. At the end of the phone call he was like “Why don’t you join vakilSearch?” I told him that if the offer ‘excited’ me, I would be up for it. And well, it indeed was a super exciting offer!

    Frankly speaking, vakilSearch, Akosha, Rainmaker etc. had been on my hit list since the third year and I’d have loved to work for such companies.

     

    What did you have to do as a VP of Marketing for VakilSearch?

    I worked for six months. Basically I had to oversee lots of things: SEO, site design, social media, tie-ups, affiliates etc.

     

    Tell us something about getting recognised by iversity as an ambassador.

    I won a competition where you had to get the maximum number of people to join their courses. I did that through the Lawctopus network. And of course, then I had to blog, too, which was more exciting.

     

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    How did you manage your academics and Lawctopus together?

    Well, I did NOT manage my academics. I used to study the night before the exam for over six hours straight. I used to be on two red bulls and I speed read well (1000 words+ an hour). So yes, that’s how I mismanaged my academics!

     

    Did you visit entrepreneur meetings during the formative years of Lawctopus?

    Yes, our common friend, Ramanuj introduced me to Start-up Saturdays and I found the events good, though not great. I’d say start-ups in India are going to rise. (Am patriotic, so anything I say about India is going to be positive).

     

    How difficult would you say the first two years were of Lawctopus?

    Starting a website requires very little money. So, the five of us just pooled in our pocket money. It was not difficult because we were then just doing it for fun. But yes, there were lots of ups and downs in the initial years. Lawctopus is a self-sustaining, profit-earning entity now. So, if I need to invest in a new related project, the money that Lawctopus generates by itself, does it for me.

     

    There were news once that Lawctopus had lost all its database and files due to a server crash. Is it true?

    Yes, quite true! Stupidity and carelessness lead to this. Yes, it was devastating. But well, I had come afresh from a gruelling ten day Vipassana meditation retreat (which is by far the best experience I  have had in my life). The crux of the learning is that everything is impermanent and so I took it in my stride. The Lawctopus’ co-founders Prateek and Dhruv worked like maniacs to restore whatever they could via Google cache. It helped, but only a bit. Unfortunately, we could not manage to get all the lost data.

     

    What were the most difficult times for you regarding Lawctopus?

    The most difficult time was when we had to decide the ‘equity’ for five of us. We had just started as friends without a care for all this. But the fight turned ugly and one of co-founders left the team. We had a great shouting match and I don’t think either of us (both pretty calm souls) has ever been that angry. Luckily, we (the friend who left the team and me) are still best friends and are planning something together.

     

    What do you have to say about so many people blindly copying the Lawctopus model?

    The egoist in me says: ‘Imitation is the best form of flattery.’ But yes, this mindless copycatting confuses me. There are so many things to be done. Have a look at Legal Sutra. It was such a nice concept. Someone could have done that. They did not. Now, we are trying to do a Legal Sutra!

    I do not think the present lot will sustain themselves for even two or three years. A couple of the clones are already dead. I thought Project Cloud was great and had invested in better technology but they too are not doing much nowadays. But then again Lawctopus is also far from perfect or even excellent. There is so much to be done and I am sure we will soon have a worthy competitor.

     

    Were there any occupational hazards running Lawctopus?

    The occupational hazard is that you have to be on it daily. You have to be regular or else the readers will lose trust in you. Yes, I do get hate mails. They help us and keep us on our toes. But I do get love mails too. So it sort of balances out. Meditation helps in dealing with all this

     

    Do you provide any work opportunities for law students?

    We do not take interns. But we have a college manager program, which has been improving in its form and effectiveness.

     

    What are your thoughts about raising capital for Lawctopus from investors?

    I have had three/four investor talks. But money does not excite me too much. So, I have never taken it seriously.

     

    What are your plans regarding Lawctopus for the upcoming years?

    We’ll be launching a massive open online law journal (inspired by Legal Sutra), a law school listing and review section (inspired by Zomato), a social networking functionaliy and an app.

    There are two types of growth in my mind: one is slow and steady, but works like magic (just like compound interest does magic to your money) and is achievable with good old hard work. The other type of growth is the massive, black swan types. It takes innovation and hard-work and a bit of luck. The first type of growth should always occur (or else you are dead). One should also strive towards achieving the second by making bold moves and taking big risks; but I don’t think you should be dependent on these.

    So, I don’t think of growth in terms of being ‘ready’ or it being in ‘phases’. You should always be growing.

     

    What does it take to be an entrepreneur?

    One can be entrepreneurial by default and we can even be inspired and encouraged to be entrepreneurial.

    Three skills required for an entrepreneur:

    • Good at ideating: If you struggle to come up with ideas, maybe this is not your cup of tea. Again, if you fear experimenting and failing at things, drop the plans!
    • Convincing: You need to convince the world at large about your idea. It includes your co-founders and investors and clients. To convince you will need truckloads of passion and be great at talking or writing.
    • Determined: Do your thing relentlessly. Take feedback and work on improvements. But do not get bogged down by what others say.

     

    Lastly, what would be your message to law students and young lawyers who want to pursue alternative legal careers or entrepreneurship?

    Just go ahead and do it. Start with small achievable goals. Do not lose too much sleep or money on your plan. Bring improvements to your plans and include consistency in your modus operandi. Learn learn learn. Learn from books. Learn from other people. You do not need to reinvent the wheel.

  • Jeet Soni, Associate, Gnarus Partners, on being an Arbitrator for Willem C. Vis, and his internship experience

    Jeet Soni, Associate, Gnarus Partners, on being an Arbitrator for Willem C. Vis, and his internship experience

    Jitendra (Jeet) Soni graduated from KIIT Law School in 2013. During this time he has interned with Dr. Tamara Relis, External Grant Researcher, The London School of Economics and Political Science, Dr. Rajeev Dhavan, Senior Advocate, Supreme Court of India, Hon’ble Dr. Justice Vineet Kothari, Judge, Rajasthan High Court, and with firms such as AMSS, Trilegal, Wadia Ghandy & Co., among others. He is currently Associate at Gnarus Partners. 

    In this interview we speak to him about:

    • Experience as a participant and as an Arbitrator at the Willem C. Vis Moot
    • Work experience at Gnarus Partners and being featured as a rainmaker in legal media
    • His diverse internship experience

    What motivated you to pursue law?

    To be honest, I can’t remember an isolated incident or a point when I decided to study law. So far as I can remember, I always knew what I did not want to do (for instance, joining family business or engineering!) instead of knowing what actually I wanted to do. Going by your question, if there had to be a point, I think it must have been the day I joined coaching classes for law entrance exams. Because after that, I don’t remember even a single day when it dawned on me that ‘let’s try something else’.

    I have had a brilliant journey back there during law school – both personally and professionally. My whole personality underwent a drastic change during my college life and I feel good about myself. Made a lot of friends, committed mistakes, learnt from them, failed a lot more than I succeeded and infact, I did every sort of thing that one can imagine about his/her college days.

     

    What does it take to write a great moot memo?

    (Jeet won the Best Memorial Award at Commonwealth International Law Moot Court Competition during his first year itself.)

    Despite the fact that I achieved early success in moots and was tagged as the best researcher by my gregarious peers, I don’t consider myself as any authority. I’m a hard core believer of individuality and I believe every individual has something worth contributing and sharing. I consider this as a wonderful opportunity to share all little things that I have learnt by virtue of being on both sides of the bench in moot courts. To begin with, never consider any of your piece of writing (be it a memorial, an article or otherwise) as a mere collection of words and research on an A4 page of Microsoft Word. Rather, make an attempt to see it as a ‘living person’ which has to be meticulously brought into existence by using a perfect mix of ‘a well-structured skeleton’ and ‘comprehensive research based flesh and blood’. Not to mention, you should dress it well by using several in-build features of Microsoft Word. In the words of Harvey Spector (from Suits), “people respond to how one is dressed”, so like it or not, this is what you have to do.

    I would club the required skills for writing a good memorial into three broad categories:

    1. Reading and researching
    2. Drafting
    3. Formatting

    The starting point of reading would be the moot problem. Not just once, but several times. Be as curious and inquisitive as you can about the existence of every word, full stop and comma used in the problem. Because there is and there has to be a reason behind it. On research part, always start with the basics and then move deeper into it. If you are reading a relevant case law, book or an article, don’t just jump through pages, instead swim through every word and sentence. Keep noting down the phrases and sentences which you subjectively consider as being useful at drafting stage. If you research online, don’t get impatient if Google doesn’t give you a relevant hit during initial searches. Be patient enough to reach till the last page of Google when it says ‘no more results’ (bad luck, if you have to go so far!). Use every damn keyword (by permutation and combination) that you can think of while using Manupatra, Westlaw or any other research databases. The idea is not to miss out on anything that is of even least relevance.

    Once you are ready with your understanding of facts and research, prepare a skeleton of broad arguments (table of contents essentially). On one hand, it would define the broad contours in which your arguments will operate while on the other, it will give the reader an easy understanding of your thought-process behind the entire memorial. On drafting part, never forget to keep a systematic flow in each and every sentence and argument that you write. To put it simply, it should be one, two, three, so on and so forth, rather than one two, nine, four, and so on. Ideally, you may want to put one line each on the extant law, judicial interpretation followed by its precise application on the set of facts and logical conclusion.

    Always draft your memorial in plain and simple English and be very selective in making a phrase or word ‘italics’ or ‘bold’ within a paragraph. Trust me, you don’t want to grab unnecessary attention of the reader or judge on an argument or phrase which doesn’t feature in your top-four arguments. Not to mention, know everything about a case law before you cite it or an author before you rely upon his commentary. Discuss and even argue passionately with your teammates on every little aspect of the memorial.

    Just because you have found a relevant or a convincing argument in a book or an article, that doesn’t necessarily make the author reliable or authoritative. Conduct a background check, how far that author has been cited by the Courts, if not, read the preface of his book to understand why he should be relied upon. I remember having an in-depth heated debate with my partner-in-moot, Kanad on whether we should cite the article written by a particular author or not! This is what I am talking about.

    Now that our living being is in existence, we should talk about dressing it up! Master the features of Microsoft Word. It is an assurance from a person who has himself learnt from the ‘Help’ option of Microsoft Word that once you have grasped these features, you will be able to format memorials (both sides), within 25-30 minutes at ease. The time you will save here, can be productively utilized for research and drafting.

    I would suggest you to start learning from the basic shortcuts to intricate functions like in-built table of content, cross referencing, in-built table of authorities, styles, multilevel lists, controlling widow/orphan, etc. Once you are comfortable with these features, start using the ‘paragraph marks’ feature (appearing in paragraph on home tab with this sign – ¶) to be more vigilant about unintended formatting errors in the document.

     

    jeet-soni2

    How was the experience participating in Willem C. Vis International Commercial Moot Court Competition in Vienna as a participant in 2011 and as an arbitrator recently?

    Vis has always been brilliant – back then and now as well. Vis Moot gives a wonderful opportunity to meet the other teams, coaches and arbitrators from across the jurisdictions with the best part being – you meet and greet all while enjoying a glass of fine Austrian wine and finger food. The most glamorous and enriching experience was to be accompanied by Prof. Martin Hunter during the oral rounds in Vienna, under whose overall guidance we had prepared for the Vis.

    Indeed, it was a breath-taking experience to be on both sides of the bench. Being on the participant side – I certainly find myself lucky enough to be a part of a team whose chemistry and bonding was unparallel (and our ties continue to grow even when each one of us is in different jurisdictions). During the memorial drafting days, we used to engage quite more than often in ‘verbal riots’ on an argument of the moot (although as a rule, such altercations used to get settled with delivery of a Dairy Milk as a settlement!). While at the time of submission and sending the e-mail with memorial copies, we would keep our whiskey glasses ready for a night-long celebration. The kind of motivation and all ancillary support (including finances) that we received from college was overwhelming and to this very date, we remain grateful that they all believed in us! Specifically answering your question, Vis continues to be my finest exposure till date.

    Being on the other side of the bench this year was altogether a (renewed experience). It was rather exciting to refrain from asking questions and conduct the proceedings at par with those of international commercial arbitration. This was indeed in sheer contrast with the Indian mooting scenario where (with all due respect and as far as I have observed and heard), judges ask questions with a sole purpose to test whether the students have understood the problem and the law or to make the oral arguments ‘interesting’ or to ‘showoff’ one’s knowledge.

    My personal opinion is that such questions are not appropriate for moot courts that attempt to simulate a real-time dispute. Whatever limited understanding I have gathered about judging a moot is that as a judge, you should strongly refrain from questioning to the extent you refrain in a real time litigation/dispute resolution proceedings. That is the thin line of difference that I learnt as an arbitrator at Vis, which I believe gives maximum space of learning to people on both sides of the bench.

     

    How helpful do you think is mooting for a law student?

    I think this should not even be a question. To understand the real issue myself, I have not only read the opinion of past interviewees on this website but I have also interacted with my juniors and a few interns at our firm on the issue. From what I understand is that the scenario amongst the law students is characterized by rather a ‘polarized debate’ between the proponents and opponents of moot court competitions, with each positing themselves on opposing extremes of the spectrum on this point. That apart, I remain confident that mooting is much more than being a ‘list of extra-curricular activity’ on your CV.

    I have been passionate about mooting and continue to be so till date! It is rather a deceiving thought that mooting belongs to those who intend to litigate. From my assessment and experience, a person who has workedon a moot with dedication and has derived the maximum learning out of it, can use such experience in any field s/he would take, whether litigation, corporate or otherwise. I mooted back then and today I am a transactional lawyer (often working on complex M&A deals involving a range of document drafting) and believe me or not, till date, I remain thankful to moots for giving me all these skills. You learn to be comprehensive in research.

    You learn to put out your best research in precise words on a document. You learn to adhere to timelines. You learn to critically analyze whole range of issues left out by the statutes, courts and authors failing to clarify and/or thinking beyond the ‘conventional’ realms of thinking. You learn the sophisticated document management skills including drafting and formatting the document at professional level. Tell me, are these skills only relevant for a litigating lawyer? I am sure they aren’t and that’s why I think, there is a need to reclassify this debate itself. From the above points that I made, it is clear that mooting can give you much more than mere a CV-showcase, provided you have a direction in your efforts and approach.

     

    You have won a Best Article Award and also have had a number of other great publications. How important is it to publish articles being in a law school?

    Very, very important! Tell me, what is an article all about – is it only about words that we write? Or is it a collage of the time-consuming research that we did? Answer is a BIG NO. An article in simple terms is your way to contribute to the legal academia, using your own analytical thoughts based on the fallouts of the existing literature. Something more than what exists already on Google or any legal database. As a law student, when you write (even writing without the intent of publishing) or publish an article, you showcase that you are constantly engaging in brain activity and are inquisitive towards the unsolved issues and in the process, you also make a remarkable impact on your CV.

    At the end of the day, it is a call which we have to make – whether we want to fiercely cite the opinion we took on a certain legal question or to quote, every time what has been quoted since centuries in all textbooks, case laws and by every Tom, Dick and Harry.

     

    How should one get started about publication?

    Fortunately, we are law students who are required to research and write papers as a part of our curriculum or during internships as a part of the work that we have been assigned. Start from that! Always remember to retain your research and notes on any hot-topic that you prepared during your assignments, moots or internships. Whenever you find time, start with that as the base and take that to its logical end. That’s the easiest way to pile up the publications!

    It never took me more than a week since all the publications that I have, are solely based on the work that I did either as a part of my curriculum, moots or internships.

     

    What procedure did you follow to apply to the law firms you worked with?

    I have no qualms in admitting the unspoken rule of law firms in India (generally but not always!) that there is much emphasis on the tangible factors such as ‘institutional name’, ‘CGPA’, ‘uncles and contacts’, etc.. These factors sadly but inadvertently dominate the decision-making process for granting internships. Having said that, being a first generation law student from my family (with absolutely no nexus in the legal fraternity) and hailing from a young institution which was in the process of establishing itself in the market, it was very difficult for me to secure an internship. It was disheartening to see constant rejections at a stage when I desperately needed an exposure in my area of interest (corporate law).

    My story of first law firm internship is rather a bit unconventional – it was through LinkedIn that I got in touch with Mr. Aditya Prakash Rao, the then Senior Associate at AMSS, under whom my friend, Kanadhad interned. Based upon his performance during that internship, Aditya was more than willing to put me in the process of internship and eventually, I secured my first law firm internship. At this stage, I suggest the readers to be active on LinkedIn and build as much of a professional network as they can. It can help you in securing guidance of the professionals and sometimes internships too. It worked for me and I am positive it might work for you as well!

    Once I got the much needed opportunity, I made sure to make the most out of it. I was on my toes all throughout. Going forward, during every subsequent internship, I made it a point to set and break my own precedents of working standards. And rest is history now!

     

    What does a normal workday at Gnarus Partners entail?

    I can’t recollect a single instance during my tenure at Gnarus which can be remotely categorized as ‘normal’ or ‘routine exercise’. It would not be too abstract to say that my role in the firm has been much beyond the conventional contours of my appointment letter. When you decide to join an established institutional framework, you are aware well in advance about the responsibilities that you will undertake there. Everything is set, you just have to get in and make yourself comfortable there. But the challenges accumulate and the story gets interesting, when you decide to join an institution in the making.

    Before I could even absorb my role and responsibility there, I was entrusted with a role which I could have never imagined. Within my first month, I got the opportunity to sit in the board room of one of the biggest media houses in the country, and conduct the ‘closing’ of an acquisition transaction. Well, if I think about that moment in retrospect, I feel embarrassed about knowing nothing at that point of time. What gives me a great deal of satisfaction today is the role that ‘moment’ played in shaping my mind and to know my place in the firm.

    Slowly and steadily, I think I have come down to know my role in the firm very well and today I don’t consider this as an entity anywhere distinct of me. In my 1 year of experience with Gnarus, I am proud to admit that I have not lived the same day twice! (Oh, yes!). I have witnessed a variety of matters. Some of them were indeed quite related to my comfort zone and many others – I knew nothing and by the end of the day, I walked with a great deal of satisfaction of having learnt something. Apart from leading the firm upfront with Rishi in transactions, negotiations and other drafting work, I also had my own share of experiences of being an IT guy (fixing internet bugs in office), HR person (fixing up internships) and a few times in the capacity of a plumber and electrician too!

    Ever since I joined Gnarus, my introspection has reflected in my growth both in terms of a learner as well as a thinker. However, whenever I think in retrospect today, it gives me immense satisfaction to see myself to have mirrored the evolution of the institution, having had the opportunity to contribute to it in my own modest way.

    Before joining Gnarus, I had worked in the capacity of an Assistant Manager (Legal) at Kotak Mahindra Bank for roughly around 2 and half months. At Kotak, I essentially dealt with the cases in relation to SARFAESI Act and other related matters. I could never relate myself to the work which I was undertaking there and precisely that was the reason I decided to make an early move to do what I really wanted. That apart, till date I enjoy a very strong bond with my mentor at Kotak, Mr. Manish Kumar Gupta who heads the Delhi office.

     

    What is your take on working at a smaller law firm in early years of career rather than working at a very big law firm?

    To clear the shades of doubts, let us be clear on one thing – the size, name or repute of an organization are all irrelevant considerations in determining the kind of exposure you will get. In my personal opinion, at the cost of being a little cliché, it is the effort and willingness of your mentor with whom you work that matters the most. At the cutting edge of the profession where one is looking for opportunities and challenges, one should be at a place and with a person who will provide one with interesting and varied workload that will guide him to push boundaries and set new standards. That will surely involve a constant motivation on one hand and constructive criticism of your performance on the other by your mentor. The level of interaction with this type of mentor shall range from teaching you the very basics to pointing out mistakes from your work which you believes is your 100%. This mentor will always strive to guide your thought process and invoke your hidden analytical skills, rather than giving you external ‘directions’. Without any penumbra of doubts on your capabilities, he will make you work in your own sphere, reason with you, and not discard your suggestions unceremoniously. I am glad that I have found everything which I could have asked for in my mentor, Mr. Rishi Anand.

    Needless to mention, I am not advocating for either sides, rather I am of firm opinion that opportunities lie across the spectrum (both in big law firms and the start-ups) and students need to think more broadly as to where do they actually belong. It might not be always necessary that after graduation, every student shall be well aware of his areas of interest. For them, it is far more important to engage in as many experiences and choices as they can which will help them immensely in exploring and locating their niche. But what is most important is the person with whom you shall be working!

     

    Does the entire team go through brainstorming sessions for transactions and deals that the firm does or does your Partner finalize everything and tell you what you have to do?

    Well, if I had to give it a ratio, I would say 99 percent of what goes into the transactions is his experience and knowledge, with the best part being our involvement at every stage of decision that he takes. The great thing about Rishi is that he knows that the associates (at early stage of their careers) are not as confident or convinced about their subject, as the Partner is. To fill up this gap, he makes a point to explain us the intricacy of each transaction and strategy to deal with it and at the same time, he keeps his own decision open for discussion. We work as a team and we argue, debate and discuss, but we never forget that we are working towards a common goal. Yes, I admit we have creative differences, but it’s not like ‘it’s my idea’ and ‘it’s his idea’ in our firm. The idea or the approach that works for the client is the best idea. So, either he convinces us or we convince him, but the communication line is open. We work freely with Rishi with no ego at play, neither a Partner’s nor a Senior’s. It’s only about work! In my limited years of experience I have never seen anyone so deeply involved with his team. He sees a part of him in us and try to build up us every single day. Any other Partner would just tell his associates, get this work done. But Rishi takes our views and it’s our excitement to take up that responsibility that drives him. He knows we can carry out any transactions, no matter how big or small it is, only if all of us are equally devoted. That’s what teamwork is all about and that’s how we have been working since Day 0 till now.

     

    Do you accept interns at Gnarus Partners? How does one apply?

    Yes, we do accept interns on rolling basis throughout the year. Our internship program has been designed consciously to reach out to the ‘bright and unexplored talent’ (as clichéd as it may sound) we all know but no one admits that within the internship process that exists and operates, there is an over-emphasis on tangible factors. The overall result of this ‘sad state of affairs’ is that, numerous brilliant legal minds out there who are not in favourable positions are excluded to even get a platform to perform.

    It was our conscious decision to make our firm accessible to such talent and once they join, making the firm inclusive. For these reasons, we have fostered an inclusive work environment where interns are treated at par with Associates from the day they arrive, where they are encouraged to think critically and where their reasons are heard patiently. Acting against the Indian convention, we have developed an open door policy which ensures that interns are treated as an integral part of the firm. Be it a quick question on interpretation of law or drafting, or if they need any informal advice, at Gnarus, you will find the entire team more than willing to exchange their thoughts with you.

    The process to apply for an internship at Gnarus is pretty simple – send your CV via e-mail with a cover letter to delhi@gnaruspartners.com and CC it to jitendra@gnaruspartners.com (which is me), at least three months prior to the period during which internship is being sought. Shortlisted candidates shall be invited to complete an ‘internship questionnaire’ followed by a quick response from our side. The factors that we consider while evaluating a person’s candidature do not start and end with his/her résumé and tangible academic results. Rather, we look for qualities which reflect beyond these. We believe that there exists certain parameters which cannot be objectively verified yet constitute an integral part of one’s intellect. With this background, we have specifically designed our internship and recruitment policy to enable us to learn more about the applicant as an individual.

    We are an entrepreneurial firm that expects people joining us to be brimming with ideas, innovation and energy. In addition, we look out for people who have a wide range of experience and interests outside the legal arena as well. We require our prospective applicants to have highly effective communication skills to advise our clients on sophisticated legal and commercial issues in simple terms. Other core skills which we deem as fascinating and essential in our prospective applicants include, amongst others, a good sense of humour, commercial awareness and independent thinking.

    We truly understand that applying for a job or internship at a law firm can be daunting and time-consuming. At Gnarus, we assure our participation at all levels to ensure smooth sailing of application. Once we receive applicants at Gnarus in accordance with the terms of our recruitment policy, we make it a point to read each and every application with utmost care and strive to communicate our decision at the earliest.

    It is our understanding that the applicant will gain more out of the process if they have a clear cut understanding of the values of our firm and their future aspirations. Afterall, selection is a mutual process whereby they decide whether we are right for them and we reciprocate.

     

    What would you consider as an exceptional internship performance?

    Frankly, I do not know what exactly is exceptional, but I can surely share the ingredients which are likely to make one’s internship quite exceptional. Always be an ‘innocent learner’. As I have always conveyed to our interns, it is a good thing to know ‘nothing’. It is not a traumatic thought, rather it is a sign that you are open to learning. The day you make yourself believe that you know ‘everything’, you shut down your avenues of learning and growth. If you don’t know about a particular subject, admit it and try to read, discuss and know everything about it. Never try to proclaim that you know things, when you don’t. You can’t fool them forever; they are professionals who are much more experienced than you. Today or tomorrow, you’ll encounter the reality. In case of doubts, never be afraid to approach the supervisor and clear the same at its very inception rather than sitting and sleeping over them. Try to focus on doing your work in the most diligent manner and by putting your own original thoughts. Existing literature or resources are there to guide you and not for (Ctrl+C) (Ctrl+V) purposes. And lastly, your contact with your supervisors and colleagues should not be limited during the duration of your internship only. Rather, keep your supervisors in the loop. Trust me, you will need them – not as a ‘fancy contact’ in your smartphones but to guide you throughout your career.

     

    You were featured in various top-notch deals that were published on popular legal portals such as Legally India, Bar & Bench, etc. How do you feel about it?

    One of the most important things about this profession is that you are required to not only work hard round the clock, but also to remain constantly visible in the market. Your career graph won’t take a leap if you remain dormant in the market with least interaction with the people in the industry (physically or virtually). I am not suggesting that one should work solely for the purposes of getting featured on portals. In my opinion, publication merely symbolizes the amount of hard work and risks that one has undertaken in the background. However, the point that I want to highlight is that it is not something one should waste his time craving for.

    Coming to your question, indeed, it is a great feeling to feature on these popular portals whose reader base is humongous within our legal fraternity. But I have never worked keeping this as an end. What fascinates me? It is the genuine feedback of clients that gives me more satisfaction than surfing the internet and viewing these news items. Again, I would not have featured outside the contours of ‘LinkedIn’ and ‘Facebook’ if I were not working with Rishi and at Gnarus. As I mentioned earlier, Rishi believes in sharing everything that our firm achieves with the entire team, therefore, when I saw my name out there along with his name, I was not at all surprised.

     

    Lastly, what would be your advice to the law students interested in going into the corporate world?

    It has been my constant endeavour throughout this interview to share my experiences with generous helpings of both bluntness and candor. I would advise all the readers out there to be original in their approach, not let their ‘raw talents’ be overshadowed by mindless status quo. Before approaching any assignment, put your thought in it and try to create something of immense value without prejudicing any part of your originality. Stick to it! Novel things are always appreciated. Set your previous work as a benchmark for yourself.

    If you have not worked earlier on that assignment, then keep the best product available as your benchmark, and try to raise the level of the current work from your existing/previous work. Imbibe this habit so deep down inside you that your tolerance to mediocrity lowers to minimum. Keep your work and yourself open to criticism, never consider yourself as ‘born smart’. Patience and perseverance shall ultimately take you to the heights which you can never fathom.