As a conversation starter, could you please tell us about your background and how you developed your expertise in commercial and property-related litigations?
I am born and brought up in Mumbai. I studied law at Government Law College at Mumbai and started interning at Mulla & Mulla & Craigie Blunt & Caroe in my 2nd year of law. During my internship I worked on several commercial and property related litigations. After I graduated, I moved firms and continued to work commercial litigation matters. I also do a fair amount of real estate matters. I have had the privilege of assisting great seniors who were experts in commercial litigation and property related matters and thereby gained a fair amount of experience in litigation and real estate matters.
What do you think are the biggest challenges facing corporations and individuals in litigation today, and how can they navigate them successfully?
There are several challenges that corporations and individuals face in litigation today, some of which include:
Cost: Litigation can be incredibly expensive, with legal fees, court costs, and other expenses. This can be a significant burden for both individuals and corporations.
Time: Litigation can take a long time, often stretching on for months or even years.
Risk: Litigation also carries a significant amount of risk, as the outcome of a case can be unpredictable and can have long-lasting consequences for both individuals and corporations.
To navigate these challenges successfully, individuals and corporations should consider several strategies:
Manage costs: While litigation can be expensive, there are steps that can be taken to manage costs, such as negotiating legal fees, using alternative dispute resolution methods etc.
Be strategic: Developing a clear strategy for the case can help individuals and corporations manage their time and resources more effectively and increase their chances of success.
Communicate effectively: Open and transparent communication with legal counsel can help ensure that everyone is on the same page and can work together more effectively to achieve the desired outcome.
You have also represented clients in high-stake domestic and international arbitration proceedings. What are some of the key differences between arbitration and litigation, and when is one more appropriate than the other?
Arbitration is a process in which a neutral third party, known as an arbitrator, hears evidence and arguments from both sides and makes a final decision. The decision of the arbitrator is binding, meaning that the parties must accept it as final and cannot appeal it except in very limited circumstances. Arbitration is generally less formal and less expensive than litigation and may be quicker in some cases.
Litigation, on the other hand, is the process of bringing a case before a court of law. The court hears evidence and arguments from both sides and makes a final decision, which can be appealed to a higher court if the losing party chooses to do so. Litigation is generally more formal and more expensive than arbitration and can take longer to reach a final resolution.
Whether arbitration or litigation is more appropriate will depend on the specific circumstances of the dispute. In general, arbitration may be more appropriate if the parties want a quicker and less expensive resolution, and if the dispute involves commercial or contractual issues. Litigation may be more appropriate if the dispute involves complex legal or constitutional issues or if one party is seeking a significant monetary award or other type of relief. Ultimately, the decision to use arbitration or litigation will depend on the preferences of the parties involved and their respective legal strategies.
Real estate matters are a significant part of your practice. What are some of the most common issues that arise in property-related transactions, and how can clients protect themselves?
Some of the most common issues that arise in property related transactions are:
Title documents are not stamped and registered. It is essential for transfer documents to be stamped and registered failing which title does not pass. Pre-nineties parties would not stamp and register documents.
In land transactions, revenue records remain to be updated.
In some cases, the original owner has passed away leaving behind will. These wills are sometimes not probated.
Family arrangements entered into between the successors of the original owner are not adequately stamped and registered.
It is essential for a party purchasing property to do a proper title due diligence before purchasing a property. Public notices must be published, necessary searches in the land and revenue records must be taken. In case of companies, ROC search must be conducted to see if there is any charge on the property. Permission of the Charity Commissioner must be taken in case of sale of property belonging to a public trust. The title to the property must be clear and marketable and without any encumbrance. It is important to take adequate safeguards such as indemnities, representations and warranties from the seller. Nowadays, in view of the PMLA Act, it is also suggested that the source of funds out of which the seller purchased the property should also be checked. Purchasers must seek advice of lawyers before purchasing properties and seek their assistance in preparing the documentation. This is important so that they do not have any issues when they want to sell the property.
How do you stay up-to-date with the latest developments in your areas of expertise, and what resources do you rely on?
There are multiple online/ offline resources as on date to aid lawyers stay upto date with the legal developments. However, what I feel is imperative is the discipline and hunger for knowledge. Argus Partners has a robust Knowledge Management practice which ensures that every lawyer in the Firm stays updated with the recent changes/ modifications in his/ her area of practice. Further, we have created internal databases in the Firm for practice areas like arbitration and insolvency which witnesses regular developments. The responsibility to keep these databases up and running is shared by every lawyer of the Firm of the respective practice areas.
Can you share some advice for law students and young lawyers who aspire to have a successful career in litigation and real estate law?
To succeed in litigation and real estate law, you need to have a deep understanding of the legal principles and procedures that apply to these fields. Make sure to take relevant courses during law school, participate in moot court, research/ thought papers and seek out opportunities to work with experienced law firms/ lawyers in these areas for internships/ research associate/ paralegal positions.
I believe that building relationships with other lawyers and professionals in the industry is critical for success along with developing good communication skills. Communication is key in litigation and real estate law, whether it’s presenting an argument in court or negotiating a deal with a client. Practice your writing and public speaking skills and always seek feedback from mentors and colleagues to improve.
Another aspect which I feel is critical to be good lawyer is being detail-oriented. In real estate law, even a small mistake or oversight can have significant consequences. Attention to detail is critical, so make sure to double-check your work and take the time to thoroughly review any legal document.
And last but not the least, stay up-to-date on legal developments will go a long way in making you a champion in your field.
Thus, by focusing on these areas, you can build a strong foundation for a successful career in litigation and real estate law. Remember, success in any field requires hard work, dedication, and a willingness to learn and grow over time.
Lastly, what are your future goals and plans for your career, and what are you most excited about in the coming years?
The ultimate goal is to build a firm which believes in quality, gives client’s excellent advice and helps in getting the best outcomes. The firm is doing some top notch work and growing at a great pace.
Tell us what inclined you to pursue law as a profession?
Well there is no inspiring story here unfortunately. I did choose science as my study stream for my plus two boards, but that was because my parents initially wanted me to become a doctor. Law happened pretty accidentally actually! It was more like law chose me. My uncle, who is a lawyer at the Calcutta High Court, told me at that time of the emergence of the national law schools across the country and the bright, young graduates these institutions were producing and suggested I should try taking the exams for these law schools. I only took the exam for WBNUJS, Kolkata (ours was the last batch who took individual law school exams instead of the CLAT) after preparing for about a month. The results came out about two weeks before the boards and I was very happy to find that I had gotten through. I decided that this was what I was going to pursue and make a career out of. And that is how it happened.
Do you have any mentors so far that helped you so far in this journey, and how far do you consider the role of mentors crucial in the industry?
Yes of course. You cannot grow as a professional in the legal industry (or for that matter any industry) without the help of your mentors. A good mentor will teach you so much especially as a litigating lawyer – the art of a good draft, how much to say and what not to say in Court, how to strategize a matter etc. Whatever little I am today I am because of some excellent mentors I have had in the industry.
Why does Corporate law attract so much attention? What makes it so unique?
Well it would be easy to say that it attracts the attention of young graduates because of the money on offer, but that would be a shallow perspective. If you do not like and enjoy what you do on a daily basis, you will not stick around or grow, no matter the money on offer. This is why you see attrition rates are so high in the bigger law firms. However, if you like what you do, then the sky is the limit. Speaking personally, as a Disputes lawyer, I love the challenges of my job day in and day out. I have to keep our clients happy and they must feel comfortable to repose their trust in their high stakes, valuable matters in me. I have to advise them correctly, guide them down the right path, put every ounce of research and knowledge into these matters so that their chances of success are enhanced and they know that they are in safe hands – it is a challenge I am up for every day of the week.
How do you manage your time schedule on a daily basis and what drives you to be consistent?
I would not lie, law firm life can be pretty demanding – whether you are an A-1 level associate or a partner, every day brings its own challenges which consume most of your time. I have varied interests apart from law – I love reading fiction, watching sports especially football, spending time with my family and my dog. While most of my time is taken up by my work, I ensure that at the end of the day (no matter how late it is) I am taking an hour or two out to do these things I love – read a bit, maybe watch a film or a game of football, take the dog out for a walk, maybe go for a run or a long drive sometimes. It rejuvenates me and helps me face the next day with the same enthusiasm again.
What differences have you noticed in international arbitration and national arbitration, I mean what’s more challenging amongst both?
Both bring their own challenges to be honest. In an international arbitration, you are bound by the procedure of the institution under whose aegis the arbitration is happening – SIAC, ICC, LCIA etc. and the procedure is much more streamlined as opposed to domestic ad hoc arbitrations. Also, in international arbitrations you often have to work in close collaboration with foreign lawyers or law firms, and therefore seamless execution of the work can be a challenge as well as a learning experience at the same time. On the other hand, in domestic arbitrations, especially ad hoc ones, arbitrators adopt their own procedures and therefore the same may be different from one arbitration to another, and you are constantly adapting as a lawyer to make the best case for your client. However, arbitration in India has been developing at a fast rate, and amendments to the statute in 2015 and 2019 have ensured shortening of timelines and streamlining of overall procedure, and I believe the future of arbitration in India is very bright.
Do you believe that AI will lead to data breach and violation of privacy, if yes, how can it be mitigated?
I am not a data privacy lawyer and therefore I am ill-equipped to answer this question. My opinions on AI and data breach are based on what I have read in popular media, and I do not want to adopt a conspiratorial tone for your readers without in-depth familiarity with the issue myself.
Few tips for our readers that helped you as well in this journey?
First of all, you must decide what you want to do. Law firms are not be all and end all for a law graduate – there are a lot of career choices you can adopt – you can be a corporate lawyer, a litigating lawyer, an independent practitioner, an academic or venture into public policy. Do not follow the herd- look into your heart and see what you really want. As I said before, if you are not finding what you are doing everyday exciting or challenging, there is no point doing it. Also, no matter which path you choose, there is only one mantra of success for all of them – read. You have to read constantly as a lawyer, you have to keep updating yourself. Law evolves constantly, you can never be a good lawyer if you are not evolving with the law as well. That would be my two pennies for your readers.
What inspired you to choose law as a career? How has been the decision so far?
My journey to choose law as a career dates back to the day when I accidentally met a judicial officer at one of my relative’s place. After interacting with him, I was fascinated by his personality and his love for the law. Immediately thereafter, out of curiosity, I researched about law. In great part, I wholeheartedly thank my mother, who motivated me to pursue law. Over the past few years, I gained first-hand experience by witnessing various court proceedings, which improved my procedural knowledge of the law hence, my overall journey has been incredible.
What were the challenges that you faced in the beginning of your career?
The insurmountable obstacle at the beginning of my career was my introvert nature. I overcame this by watching Suits, the famous American Legal Drama Television series. Another impediment was that I am a first generation lawyer with no Godfather in the profession. I overcame this by being consistent in my efforts. I sincerely believe that dedication and constant efforts are stepping stones towards success, hence, I ensured that I learn atleast one lesson of life/ practical application of law every day without losing hopes.
How do you handle ethical dilemmas that may arise in your work? Could you highlight some ways to tackle the same?
Answer – In order to address ethical dilemmas that arise at work place, I preach the principle of dispute avoidance. Ethical dilemmas occur in all facets of life and I believe it is essential to address them at a nascent stage so that majority of conflicts can be avoided. It is crucial to separate yourself from the problem and act neutrally.
We lawyers do a lot of research in making our cases but the majority of the time, when an ethical dilemma comes, we skip the critical thinking and rush to make the judgment call. It is only at a later stage that we realise about the damage that has been done and that’s when we do the damage control exercise. However, if we look upon situations of ethical dilemma from a bird’s eye view, we can be a step ahead and act rationally.
Ethical dilemma should not always been seen as something that brings negativity. It is a way to come up with more meaningful realizations.
How far do you see the importance of Client Counselling?
The importance of Client Counselling can be better understood by the quote from Lois McMaster Bujold – “The dead cannot cry out for justice, it is the duty of the living to do so for them”. Client counselling is an art that we, as lawyers learn as and when we interact with aggrieved litigants. When an aggrieved person approaches a lawyer and starts narrating their dispute, it is important for a lawyer to identify and segregate the who, what, when, where and simplify the dispute redressal mechanism for the Client.
The Lawyer should listen to the Client without any mind-chatter and give their undivided attention to the Client. A good lawyer, by good counselling will always be able to get the best relief for their Client. Efficiently communicating with the Client is the bread and butter of a lawyer and it is important that the lawyers don’t think of the Client as a money-minting machine. While interacting with the Clients, we often have to wear the hats of a psychologist, while being in the shoes of a lawyer. Focus should be upon building connections with the Client, money will follow. Be like Harvey Spector from Suits, care for your Client and settle their disputes – be the best god-damn ‘Closer’.
Aarzu, do you believe that somewhere the craze for litigation has been vanishing lately due to job security in corporate?
Yes, I agree with you. Young lawyers don’t wish to continue into litigation for two main reasons, first and foremost, litigation is less rewarding in the initial years, not many seniors in the profession give good pay to sustain the expenses. Secondly and most importantly, one has to devote a lot of time in litigation as the incubation time for litigation is more as compared to corporate jobs in the legal fraternity.
To quote Justice Joseph Story – “the law is a jealous mistress and requires long and constant courtship. It is not to be won by trifling favours, but by lavish homage”. Many young lawyers enter into the litigation entirely blinded by the charm of black coat and white collar band. However, the bitter reality is that more than 70% of young lawyers who enter into litigation, filled with confidence either leave or plan to leave litigation. Some of them have genuine responsibilities of family, others who are afraid to burn the midnight oil – leave litigation in peer pressure seeing their fellow friends earn good in corporate. Now, in litigation we are experiencing brain-drain. Hard-working and intelligent lawyers are leaving litigation to enter into the corporate arena.
Our audience knows a little about commercial agreements, also is there a whole bunch of work in that segment, how interesting is that for any corporate lawyer?
Commercial Agreements are fascinating to work in. Drafting of these Agreements commence at the stage when parties are negotiating, if the terms between the parties are not negotiated properly or when there is a grey area, the parties end up knocking the doors of the Courts. One must make the Agreements/ Contracts diligently after understanding the fulcrum of issues between the parties and must always identify the deal breakers.
A good lawyer knows how to draft an air-tight contract, keeping in mind the intent of parties and leaves no grey area in it. One should draft well-articulated Contracts like Louis from Suits. He always captured the imagination and intent of the parties and drafted rock-solid contracts protecting the interest of his Clients .
Between arbitration, contracts and agreements, liasoning, and civil matters, which sector will have more opportunities in coming times for lawyers?
Human conflicts are relentless, so disputes are inescapable. Hence all the sectors will have nearly equal opportunities for lawyers in the coming times. However, the Indian Legal System is well known for delay in adjudication. It is a conventional fact that the Hon’ble Courts are over-burdened with pending cases and it is almost impossible to provide quick and efficient relief to the aggrieved parties, Alternate Dispute Resolution in India is an endeavour made by the legislators to attain the Constitutional Goal of achieving complete justice in India.
In today’s era, we can see a constant increase in people resorting to various ways of Alternative Dispute Redressal Mechanism for resolving their disputes amicably. Even the intention of the legislature is to resolve the disputes amongst the parties. At any stage if the Hon’ble Court witnesses a chance of settlement amongst the parties, the matter is referred to any of the alternative ways of dispute redressal mechanisms i.e. Arbitration, Mediation, Conciliation, Negotiation or Judicial Settlement by Lok Adalat for speedy redressal.
In many cases it is even mandatory to refer to any of these alternative ways of dispute redressal mechanisms at the pre litigation stage. For example, Section 12 – A of the Commercial Courts Act envisages a mandatory reference to mediation to attempt to resolve the disputes out of the court before a suit can be instituted. I am of the opinion that Arbitration sector will have more opportunities in the coming times.
Talking about work-life balance, there has been ample amount of discussion on health issues as a lawyer, what do you believe are the best practices to maintain the equilibrium?
I sincerely believe that a good laugh and 7 – hours of sleep is the best practice to maintain the equilibrium. However, people in the legal fraternity have a habit of overworking. Life is all about balance. One should know when to stop. If we keep on working in a monotonous routine, then we would not be able to perform efficiently and effectively in the long run.
Apart from doing regular exercise and maintaining a healthy lifestyle, we need to find a hobby. Our profession is significantly serious in nature, if we don’t enjoy the journey, we will not have much good memories to share 5 years down the lane. Mind is the greatest asset for a lawyer and its important that we must find solace in our professional lives. Only then would we be able to enjoy our personal lives and create an actual work-life balance.
Few advices for our young law professionals?
Explore all areas of law before you finally make a judgment call about your niche practice.
Stop thinking about the opinion of the world, it’s all in your head and focus upon improving the quality of your work.
It will not be easy. Grab every opportunity that you get. If that opportunity is not given to you, go and ask for it. Do not give up. It will be worth it.
What motivated you to choose law as a career? And how has been the journey so far for you?
It was way back in my school days, when I was introduced to the subject of Civics. The subject itself is so enriching and intriguing. It was then, when I was briefly made aware of our judicial system as well as our fundamental rights, which instilled in me the hunger to know more. Hence, the quest began to learn more, which eventually brought me to a decision of taking up law as my career.
It has been said by many, that follow what interests you and you would never fall back. During my initial days while I was an intern, I ensured that I should get to taste as many genres of law as I can.
However, in the journey, the eagerness to learn more, was lost, rather, it shifted to the idea of having a comfortable corporate job.
But life has it plans and eventually, I landed up with one such firm in my final days of internship which gave me a taste of corporate as well as litigation and this combination not just awed me but also ignited in me the fire of learning, which was lost in the process of becoming a lawyer from a law student. Today, it has been more than 3 years that I am working as an Advocate and the journey of a corporate litigant has just been so overwhelming, that I cannot imagine even a single day without the courts and the law.
What were the challenges that you faced in the beginning of your career?
It is true that beginnings are always tough, but worth the wait. Starting my career as an Advocate in 2019, was no less than a dream.
As we all know that Advocates are generally pictured to be an essential character of a courtroom drama and as other Advocates, I always craved to be a part of it. However, those courtrooms became a flowery dream, when the world was hit by covid. In my journey, the major challenge that I faced was of not getting the essence of being an Advocate for nearly 2 years since the courts during the pandemic became virtual.
The virtual court has its own pros and cons but as an Advocate not going to the courts physically made me miss on a lot many courtroom essentials, as the work was confined majorly to drafting pleadings only. Further, due to work from home, the issue of filing the pleadings at courts became yet another task, hence, the introduction of e-filing was even though a necessary and welcoming change, but was even tougher to execute.
Nonetheless, when the situation of covid subsided and things started taking its shape back to normal, the courts also started physically, and its almost a year now, since I started appearing before the Courts physically, which has brought the Advocate in me back to life and the experience of past one year has been incomparable.
What is the most challenging case you have handled in litigation and what were your learnings out of it?
Litigation means challenges. Every case has its own beauty and with every case I have learnt different viewpoint in which the law can be interpreted. I won’t say that I have faced ‘the most challenging case’ till date, since I am too new to the industry and yet to explore a lot. Yet, I would say that, I have been fortunate enough to be a part of such a team in which we have faced several cases which are different from each other and are a challenge in itself. I am a part of dispute resolution team and I have been a part of the strategy making, wherein I have understood that there is no straight jacket formula to solve all the cases, each of the case have a distinct fact or law which makes the work more challenging. Moreover, I have a core practice in Insolvency & Bankruptcy Code, 2016, which is an ever-evolving law. The Code has seen several amendments over a period of 6 years and with such amendments the challenges pertaining to each case has arisen. Accordingly, the challenges have taught me to be abit more proactive towards the amendments, to be more patient and have perseverance to attain a finality in a case.
Rishika, according to you, what exciting opportunities can corporate litigation bring in the future for the upcoming generation?
The upcoming generation tends to have an urge to “have more in less time”. Corporate Litigation is that genre of law which provides the new gen-z lawyers a platform to have a mix experience of the business law along with the its practical application i.e., having the taste of litigation at the same time.
With the increasing trend of start-ups in the country, there is no escape from Corporate Litigation and it is to be understood that Corporate Litigation not always aims towards court proceedings, but also has the essence of mitigating the risk of litigation in several corporate and commercial dealings by way of client counselling.
With the boom in economy there is no doubt that there will be several business enterprises looking for expansion and restructuring and this also falls under the wing of Corporate Litigation. Hence, it won’t be wrong to state that Corporate Litigation has a lot to offer to the upcoming generation since it is the most modern and trendy genre of law.
How do you ensure that your clients receive the best possible outcome? Any hacks for the same?
One of the basic principles to provide the best outcome to the client is that you have to be a good listener. In order to provide a suggestion on point, it is very important as a Counsel to hear your Client at length. A patient hearing would not only allow the Counsel to understand the facts clearly but would also help in co-relating the same with the applicable laws and to strategize the whole case. Secondly, which bears the utmost importance is, the communication between a Counsel and its Client which must be transparent and clear.
It is essential that the Client must not hide any facts from its Counsel and the Counsel while taking up the case, if feels that the case is strong only factually and has a weak leg in law, then the same maybe well informed to the Client.
Further, as a Counsel we ensure that our Clients are duly updated about their matters and hence all the developments howsoever small that be, should be informed to the Client in a timely manner. Thus, it is really important as a Counsel to make the Client comfortable enough to share its case and therefore a welcoming environment is must and necessary in order to retain the Clients.
Rishika, is freelancing worth doing in the legal profession and if yes, how to master the same?
Personally, what I believe is that, freelancing in the initial stages of the profession is a sheer waste of time and is a strict no-no for me, as it involves a lot of struggles for a newbie. However, one can very well be a freelancer after spending a sufficient amount of time in the industry.
To master this art it is essential for one to showcase the market your USP and once people have known you because of your knowledge, you build good connections and then it is way easier to be a freelancer.
How useful do you think the idea of Metaverse would be in the legal industry?
Honestly, what I believe is that Metaverse is a whole new concept in itself and this sudden change of everything from physical platform to virtual platform is not an easy change to be acceptable by all especially in the legal industry. The idea of Metaverse may sound very fascinating and may be a time-saving one, but for me these are dreamy and may have serious repercussions.
It won’t be wrong to say that till date we have no stringent check and balances for securing the privacy and confidentiality of social media applications as there are serious questions which are still unanswered when it comes to protection of the data of an individual.
Hence, it might happen on the digital platforms that the privileged relationship of the advocate and client is violated as the privacy is at stake as there exists no regulatory forum for such virtual universe. Therefore, it is true that things are changing rapidly in the intent to achieve a digitalised world but we are missing out on basic essence and enjoyment of everything at its pace.
What are your thoughts on the frequent amendments that are brought under the IBC every now and then?
Basically, amendments in a law showcases that, the law is being put to use and is being utilised by the population at large. It is true that laws have to be amended with time so as the same is viable enough for the legal system. It is quite imperative to amend the law but doing the same constantly makes it difficult to interpret and implement, as, there have been situations wherein, a case of a Corporate Debtor is pending for approval of Plan before the Adjudicating Authority, and meanwhile an amendment is introduced which has to be incorporated into the Plan and hence, the Plan is to be revised.
This effects the whole intent of the Code as it aims towards a time-bound resolution. It is thereby certain to note that amendments are essential but it should be affected and necessitated only at certain intervals and that too with a proper mention of the nature of such amendment, i.e., prospective or retrospective, as deemed necessary, for the development of the Code.
According to you, what networking strategies should be adopted by the first-generation lawyers specifically in corporate litigation?
It is apposite that, for a first-generation lawyer to make a mark in the industry, it is essential to have patience, perseverance and must be hardworking along with smart work. A first-gen lawyer should mainly focus on networking and building connections.
One can build connections by being a member to a Bar Association, wherein, one gets to meet a lot of lawyers from different genres and further, one should also attend events, seminars and conferences to build contacts. However, mere getting contact is not building, it is important for one to regularly follow-up with the new contacts. Hence, in order to build network, one should be well-recognised and known in the industry and that can either be by way of working or by way of building contacts.
Lastly, any 3 best pieces of advice for our young lawyers?
I have completed merely 4 years (approximately) in the legal industry and I myself is at a tender age in my professional career to advice the young ones. Nonetheless, I would like to share 3 of my basic principles which can benefit the young lawyers and they are:
Know your interest, to show your interest at work;
Work to learn and not to earn, as earnings would follow subsequently; and
Keep clam and work hard, as there are no short-cuts in life.
What inspired you to pursue a career in Cyber Security and Technology Law?
I have in most part of my career been engaged with leading industry verticals which are prone to high risk, BFSI being prominent amongst them. Risk management has been one of the primary focus for most senior executives in any form, be it operational risk, credit risk, compliance risk, security and fraud risks and so on. Given the fact that I have been a Banker and also spent a decade with technology coupled with a background in law, this only got better with changing digitization trends. Emerging technologies paved way for a deeper engagement that prompted me to move towards Cyber Law and Cyber Risk Management.
What challenges have you faced while working in this field?
As our risk advisory committee comprises of risk management professionals and domain experts from Insurance and technology, we undertook extensive research on modelling in Cyber Risk Assessment & Quantification. The initial years were quite enriching in terms of brain racking sessions on conceptualizing the idea.
Some of the challenges we faced were to identify the key points that could bring stakeholders from diverse industries on a common understanding of Cyber Risk Assessment, Quantification, pricing and claims management. Our key stakeholders are Insurers, Reinsurers, Breach Response Vendors, Cyber lawyers and Corporates.
Cybercat is an outcome of extensive research in Cyber Risk Modelling, Can you explain?
This is a non-linear model to quantify cyber exposure more accurately with a very “low error margin”. Organizations can undertake assessment and quantify cyber for catastrophic events, which will assist different stakeholders within the organization namely management, operations, legal, finance and technology to understand business impact and thereby mitigate risk with policy and technical measures or by way of risk transfer to insurers (Cyber Insurance). The model provides a mechanism to price Cyber risks for Insurance industry.
What do you consider to be the biggest challenge of Cyber Security and Technology Law?
An organization’s major challenge would be to ensure cyber security culture with a top-down approach across the organization. It is important to understand three principal components of cyber risk which is operational, reputational and litigation risks and ensure greater degree of compliance. The enterprise information security policy should be enforced, delegated and implemented in true spirit. The driving force behind any cyber security program is its leadership and it sets precedence for the organization. Cyber-attacks revolve mostly around the “human angle”. While technology may provide a pathway they have to be handled efficiently as cyber governance, risk and compliance play a pivotal role in addressing these risks.
What do you think are the most important skills needed to be successful in this field?
The field is wide open and there are many avenues today, most disciplines have branched out giving great opportunities . Some of the skills that are required for a career in this field are Cyber security engineering, Network security, incident forensics analysis, Data Architecture, problem solving skills and threat hunting analysis.
What advice would you give to someone considering a career in Cyber Security and Technology Law?
There will be a huge demand for candidates such as Cyber security specialists, Information security experts, Forensics experts, Privacy specialists, cyber insurance specialists, and Cyber dedicated lawyers in the coming years.
How have you seen the landscape of Cyber Security and Technology Law evolve over the years and what new opportunities it can bring for people in this field?
The quantum of cyber-attacks has leaped over the years exponentially. All countries throughout the world are focussed towards having a National Cyber Security policy and data protection laws. There are few countries that have exhaustive laws while some countries are yet to have comprehensive laws. The onus now shifts to corporates as measures are required for regulatory compliances without which having regulations is simply defunct. This again will bring plethora of opportunities to legal, Information security and technology specialists or those with techno-legal qualifications as corporates would need specialists to fulfil compliance requirements.
What do you mean by Strategic Cyber Risk Assessment? and How does C-level executives benefit from the Assessment?
Every organization today is in some state of fear of getting hit by a Cyber-attack, be it Malware, Ransomware or data exfiltration etc. While in most entities it is the technology that adheres to most of these technical processes it is important for the Senior Management to understand cyber and its impact to business. Cybercat provides C-Level Cyber Risk Assessment at a macro level for executives to get a broader view of Cyber Risk for their organization.
This will assist senior executives to get first-hand information about organization’s cyber posture and the monetary value at risk. This can further succour in the overall cyber program envisaged by the top leadership in making it a cyber resilient organization.
What do you think is the most important thing to consider when it comes to protecting a company’s digital assets?
Every organization should have an inventory of digital and physical assets and also have a tracking mechanism of inventories. There are a few things that should be part of mandatory company Asset and data protection policies such as protection of digital assets, viz, password management, Multi factor authentication; Role based access, Encryption and back-up of data. Centralized digital asset management is also used by industry to manage digital assets.
What are some of the easiest ways of conducting litigation and risk assessment?
There are multiple ways of conducting Risk Assessments remotely, let me differentiate between Cyber and Non-Cyber Risk Assessments.
The other forms of assessment which are core technical would comprise of Vulnerability Assessment and Penetration testing and Red team assessments.
Non Cyber or Non technology risks have a different objective as they deal with Directors and Officers Liability, Crime Insurance and Professional Indemnity and Contract Risk. They would also need a detailed ERM (Enterprise Risk Management) with specific questionnaires crafted around the key areas to understand the time value of legal dispute and probable loss estimates.
According to you, what are the most important steps a company should take to ensure its Cyber Security and Technology Law compliance?
Here are couple of key steps that I can think of:
There is an impending need for a strong leadership focus on cyber security.
An organization has to drive the cyber security change to create greater awareness and a sense of responsibility amongst their human resources.
Organization should have a greater understanding of their systems, network and data and undertake Business Impact assessment to guard against risks and quantify damages.
Organizations should evaluate their existing versus newer technologies and put a layered protection to combat cyber-attacks.
Organization should consider frequent assessments to find the vulnerabilities and take mitigation actions.
The legal team should be proactive in determining the risks related to their organization’s business profile.
Last but not the least having a Cyber Risk mitigation plan is inevitable for all organizations to not just understand risk but also to take measures to bring down cyber incidences.
Lastly, any 5 best pieces of advice for our young law professionals?
Today’s young law professionals are so dynamic that they don’t need any advice. Yet here are a few things which I suggest out of my experience:
Law is an ever changing field and hence one needs to be an all-rounder.
Law professionals should look at widening their horizon during their academic stint besides trying to acquire practical knowledge through internships all through the course.
Law professionals should keep track of multiple sectors and understand the changes that are happening in each sector. While one need not be a specialist in everything, but keeping tab of things always helps in creating niche area of practice over a period of time.
As there is no perfect solution for anything and only possible options one should ideally think from a future point of view and visualize possible solutions.
Young lawyers should ensure to write good legal pieces and publish them in reputed law journals to add credibility and value to their profile which will go a long way in building and establishing their reputation as a subject matter expert over years.
How would you like to introduce yourself to our readers?
Hi, I am Ashirbad, and I am currently a Lecturer at O P Jindal Global University. I love to paint and sketch. You would always find me humming to Sufi music or Eminem, there is no in between. I have a black belt in karate, I used to run 10Ks during my Masters, and most of my free time during the work week is spent watching Instagram reels about puppies, or NFL and UFC matches. And, when I have vacations, I backpack across remote but picturesque destinations.
Why did you choose to pursue a degree in law after your Class 12 Boards?
Didn’t really have much of a choice. I was a PCMB student during my 11th and 12th. It was not my cup of tea. I had a disastrous JEE and AIPMT. The only option that I had was CLAT. AIPMT ended on 3rd May, CLAT was on 10th May. I prepared what I could within that and showed up for the exam. Quite fortunately, things have been on a upward trajectory ever since.
Tell us a little about your days in NLU Odisha?
I had the time of my life in NLUO. When I joined there really were no campus placements, only a few batches had graduated, no one really gave us guys a shot. So, we as the students, had to build up a fair bit of the institution that it has become, ourselves. Beyond the professional or academic front, I met my closest friends there, I am very fortunate that the friends I had in first year of law school, are still my friends.
I learnt karate from Akshay, who used to live in the room next to me. I learnt how to write papers from some of my seniors there. Vegadarshi taught me a lot about how to be a Speaker for a moot. More than anything, everyday was a laugh riot in the place. I wouldn’t trade those days for anything
How did you narrow down on NLU Odisha specifically to pursue your undergraduate legal studies?
Again, didn’t really have much of a choice. I got through to TNNLS in the third round of CLAT counselling. Two and a half months later, there was a vacancy at NLUO, I applied and got through. The first two months were ludicrously challenging. I was the last guy in, I had joined after the mid-sems had gotten over, I had no clue what to do. Fortunately, I persisted, and things worked themselves out. I often say that the greatest things in my life have happened to me by accident, CLAT, NLUO, my friends, St Catharine’s, and they have had the best impact on me.
What were the activities, academic or otherwise, that you undertook in your law school days which in your opinion have shaped you and your career?
Plenty of them. I had a finger in every pie. From college committees, to moots, to papers, conferences, academics, debates, MUNS, I was involved with everything. I am generally quite outgoing, and I made full use of whatever avenues NLUO offered. It went beyond just building a career, and the academic knowledge I gained from them.
I have always prided on being able to don multiple hats at the same time and juggle multiple things successfully. They have proved to be quite beneficial in life, in general. I knew everyone on campus from the Vice Chancellor to the guards manning the gate.
Quite fortunately, they all got to know pretty well. That kind of connection is invaluable. It teaches you a lot about fostering and maintaining relationships with people from all walks of life and being a reliable person for them.
I am particularly proud of the work that I did as the Co-Convenor the College’s Internship Committee, along with Mridul, my Convenor. We lead a team of 10 students, and in our time span, we broke the record of the number of internships that NLUO had ever obtained in a calendar year by a wide margin. We took the total from 4 in the previous year to 59 in our term.
What kind of internships did you engage in during your undergraduate student years which you feel were invaluable to you in reaching your current position?
I interned at mostly data protection and general corporate teams of law firms. The most significant of them would be the two stints I had at Khaitan & Co, Kolkata, in the Corp A team with Mr Supratim Chakraborty. I had a blast working with him. I learnt so much from him, Shourya Da, Risa, Pratik Sir and a whole host of other people. I have really good memories of my time there.
You had been an all rounder in NLU Odisha, because of which you were bestowed with the ‘Shri Bichitrananda Mahanty Gold Medal’. How did you manage your academics, co-curricular and extra-curricular activities at the same time?
I used every available minute that I had, and I was as efficient I could be. It was a constant drive to be the very best version of myself. I was always occupied with something or the other. And I enjoyed doing it. No one forced me to do those things, I have always been naturally inclined to set high goals and see if I can achieve them. Being engaged in so many things also kept me focused and on track. That and an aptitude to work hard. There is no substitute for the latter. In a way, it was preparation for the future, beyond the limitations of law school. That being said, it was not all work though, I made sure to have enough time to kick back and relax with my friends.
You had been National Winner and Octa-Finalist of several Indian and International Moot Court Competition. Kindly share your experience as a successful mooter of NLU Odisha.
I have only done two moots the Oxford Price Media Moot Court and NUJS HSF Moot Court. Quite fortunately I performed well in them both. Price Media 2018 was the first moot that I ever did, and I spent a year working on it. Within that time span, I did not pick up any other assignment or co-curricular activity. We managed to reach the Octa-Finals of the World Rounds and were also adjudged as the Runners-up of the South Asian Rounds. We were the first team from NLUO to qualify for the Worlds in that competition.
The next year, I took part in HSF, and it was a month of pure sleeplessness. It had some of the most thrilling rounds I have ever been a part of, and we were adjudged as the Winners of the competition.
Again, we were the first team from our college to win the competition. Of course, along the way for both the competitions we received a tremendous amount of support from friends, alumni and college resources. The only thing I had in mind while preparing for Price Media was to be the very best Speaker I could possibly be, I had always been a debater and never a moot court Speaker, so the transition had some growing pains.
The secret sauce for success in a moot is to form a team with people you are comfortable working with. That, and a tremendous amount of hard work and sacrifice.
You had an accomplished record of publishing at renowned journals from publishers like Thomson Reuters, Eastern Book Company, Wolters Kluwer and famous dailies like that of The Indian Express, The Daily Guardian, The Statesman, Deccan Herald, just to name a few. Kindly share your experience of writing papers and articles for the journals and dailies.
I have always liked to write, so I expanded upon that in law school. I started off with nascent steps, publishing in online blogs and journals, until I garnered enough experience that I felt I could write for reputed publishers. Newspaper articles are always fun, as they are short, precise and reach a much larger audience.
The books or articles that I have published with the aforementioned publishers, were based on strenuous academic research, structured in a manner that was scholarly to merit publication, but, at the same time engaging enough to keep the reader hooked. I co-authored several articles with my Registrar at NLUO, Professor (Dr) Yogesh Pratap Singh, and, it was always a joy to write with him.
How important is it for the law students to write research papers while being at the law school?
It is definitely helpful, but, there is no hard and fast requirement as such. I have often heard stuff like publishing one article in a journal is equivalent to taking part in a moot. That is simply not true. These activities teach you different skills, and a lot depends on the quality of the paper and the journal it is being published in, which is the same as the quality of a moot court and your position in the competition.
A research paper would not only give you in-depth knowledge about the topic, but also streamline the manner in which you think and present your thoughts. A useful skill for a lawyer, for sure.
You had been a student researcher of important projects of NLU Odisha, won accolades in debate competitions, youth parliaments and MUNs’. How relevant do you believe are those achievements in your success story, so far?
Very relevant. I started off with MUNs. It laid the foundation for everything else that was to follow. As regards debates, I have been doing that since my childhood days. Debates taught me to think on my feet and marshal my arguments in a systematic and convincing manner. Debates also had a tremendous role to play in eliminating stage fright for me, and to be an engaging public speaker. My time
Between the time of your graduation and your post-graduation, you had briefly worked in a renowned law firm at their Gurgaon office. Kindly share your experience of working there in the role in the intervening period between your LL.B. and LL.M.
I was associated with the General Corporate team of JSA Gurgaon for the period between my undergraduate and my Masters. It was a great experience, and I learnt a lot about transactions. The responsibilities that you are entrusted with at the beginning are immense, and you have to adapt to the needs of the clients with alacrity. It was quite an enriching experience overall.
What prompted you to opt for LL.M. from University of Cambridge within a year of completing your BA. LL.B. from a renowned National Law University?
I always knew that I wanted to do a Masters, right from my first day of law school. And I was dead set on two places: Oxford and Cambridge. No other place ever held that charm for me. I wanted to study in a place which had history dating back to centuries, ensconced amongst picturesque medieval architecture and surrounded by the best minds in the world. Safe to say that I found that and much more at Cambridge.
How relevant would you say higher studies are for a career in law, be it working in law firms / companies or pursuing an academic career?
Its subjective. People do a LLM for various reasons. Some do it to satisfy their academic curiosity, others to transition into a foreign workforce, a few people I knew did a LLM as a break from their work. But, you do learn a lot during the year you spend studying for the program. Living in a different country, finding your feet amongst new friends and in a new culture teaches you a lot about yourself, and forces you to adapt to challenges. It opens your eyes to how people from different parts of the world live and the stories that they carry with them.
For an academic career, a LLM is always a big bonus. For law firms, I cannot offer an adequate comment. At the very least, the year you spend for your LLM, if it is at a sufficiently good University, is a year in which you gain a lot of knowledge, so its always a win-win.
What does the CV of a student seeking admission in a premier university offering an LL.M program have to look like? What are the factors you feel are looked into and what are the activities that the assessors regard favourably?
At the top of the list are your marks. To get into Oxbridge or relatively similar places, you need a good enough batch rank and marks. There is no substitute for that. Apart from it, excellence in a particular field is very helpful.
If your CV can demonstrate that you have a certain level of expertise in a particular area of law, you have worked on it extensively, and you are aiming to pursue your Masters in that particular area itself, it helps establish you as a strong candidate for the program. Apart from that, everyone’s CV is different. There is no hard and fast requirements as such.
You had been the Co-President of MCR (Postgraduate student body) Committee at St Catharine’s College for the Academic Year 2021 – 2022. How was your experience of leading a student body, that too outside the country?
It was incredible. I was admitted to St Catharine’s College at Cambridge and the college had elections for the position of the Co-President of the MCR Committee. I ran against a PhD candidate and was elected. As an Indian, being elected as the head of a British College was surreal keeping in mind the positions Indians had had in the British empire barely a hundred years ago or so.
The weight of it all was not lost on me. It was a tremendous amount of responsibility though, almost like a full time job. But, it gave a great opportunity to meet people from different streams: medicine, the sciences, humanities, finance, business; and also to work with the college authorities, and help them all in whatever issues that they had. It was truly a humbling experience.
You had been a gold medallist at NLU Odisha for Public International Law. Despite your command over the subject, what prompted you go for an LL.M. in Corporate Law?
I always wanted to work in Data Protection inter-mixed with commercial law. So, most of my internships and activities were geared on that front. I loved studying PIL in NLUO, primarily because of my Professor, Ananya Ma’am, who made the entire subject extremely engrossing. The fact that I got a medal in the subject, gives me immense joy, but my career trajectory has always been centred around commercial and technology laws.
Please share with our readers how did you narrow down on University of Cambridge for pursuing your LL.M. on Commercial Law along-with data-protection laws as your additional specialisation;
I have mentioned briefly earlier about my desire to study at Oxbridge. Of the two, Cambridge became an obvious choice because of Professor David Erdos, who teaches the module of Law and Information at Cambridge. He also heads CIPIL, which has done some remarkable work on European Data Protection Law. I knew I wanted to study from him, so, it was quite easy for me to decide to opt for Cambridge.
You went to Cambridge on full scholarship. You have been a recipient of three scholarships – Prathiba M Singh Cambridge Trust Scholarship (through Cambridge Trust), J N Tata Endowment for Higher Education of Indians Abroad (through TATA Trusts), Kemp-Gooderson Law Award and other Bursary funds (through St Catharine’s College, University of Cambridge). What is the secret of securing three prestigious scholarship at the same point of time for pursuing your LL.M.?
All of these scholarships are merit-cum-means based, implying that they need a certain calibre of academic standard, and the candidate ought to be in need for financial resources to fund their LLM. I had one objective in mind upon conclusion of my undergraduate program, which was to not ask my family for any funding. And I have been quite fortunate to have achieved that through the cumulative financial commitments of these scholarships. There is no secret as such. Just know your area of law well, be confident, honest and straightforward in the interviews.
Please share your experience of applying at University of Cambridge and for the scholarships, you had secured. Kindly share your experience of the application process for the LL.M. and the scholarships.
It was a bit stressful. Balancing a firm job, along with applications is a tall order. I had prepared a table with the last dates for applications of various scholarships along with their required documents. That helped me keep things on track. I had also reached out to my referees well in advance, so, that helped in avoiding any last minute hiccups regarding letters of recommendation and as such.
My one tip would be, research the Universities you want to get into well in advance, ensure that you have your transcripts and references prepared, and know yourself well for writing the statements of purpose.
In the year 2022, just after completing your LL.M. from the University of Cambridge you have joined Jindal Global Law School, Sonipat as a Lecturer. What prompted you to take the plunge in the field of academics?
A: I have always liked academia, being surrounded by young, bright minds. It is always good to give back to the next generation of students. When I was in Cambridge, Jindal came for recruitment, I applied and got through, and here I am. I am still at an early stage of my career, so, lets see where I end up in the next few years-academia, firm, an organisation, or somewhere else.
Back in your student years, did you ever see yourself becoming an instructor at a prestigious law school, sometime in the future? What did it take to get here?
Absolutely. In fact I used to teach my batchmates prior to every examination. The night before each exam, there would be an assembly of boys in the Boys Hostel in front of my room, and I would teach them whatever limited things I had read myself. These classes became known in NLUO as ‘Ashirbad classes’, and in fact in my final year, some of my batchmates put up a poster titled ‘Ashirbad Classes’ all around the campus. That was the foundation of my career in academia. So, I knew I had a future in academia for sure.
Give us a brief capsule of the life of a lecturer in a prestigious law school.
A: Its an engaging day, comprising of classes and research. It is an important responsibility to instruct students, so, you always have to be prepared for the classes. Apart from that it is always good to be in a University set up where things are quite organised and orderly.
How is your experience of working with Jindal Global Law School’s legendary instructor, Professor. Arjya B. Majumdar?
I have learnt so much from Professor Majumdar. He is pioneer of when it comes to teaching commercial law. I cannot describe accurately how much I have enjoyed working with him at Jindal. Apart from being a great educator, he is also an incredible guy. I have sought his advice on quite a few things, and they have always been eye-opening.
How important are grades, in your opinion, for a student to be eligible for employment, be it in academia or in top tier law firms?
Quite important. Never mess them up. Grades show one important thing- consistency. And that is an invaluable quality that every employer of institution looks for in a prospective candidate. So, be sure to keep them on track.
If given an opportunity, what would you do differently in your career journey up to this point?
Nothing. Not a single thing.
Is there any other suggestion you would like to give to our budding lawyers?
Do everything that you want to do. Set high dreams and demand the highest standards of excellence from yourself. There is nothing quite like regret, so make sure that when you look back on your life, you don’t have regrets about anything.
And always remember these lines “Stick to the fight when you are hardest hit, it’s when things go wrong that you must not quit.”
You were a sportsperson during your higher secondary and secondary school competing at the national and international tennis circuit. You have represented and won medals for your state in all age categories and were top 15 in India at one point in time. How did a tennis prodigy become a lawyer?
Becoming a lawyer for me happened by chance and enjoying the profession ended up being a blessing. It was due to too many injuries that I had to decide to get back to academics. Luckily for me, my mother being a lawyer herself (although now in the family business) was there to guide me through it. She knew the process and also had an idea as to how much time and effort would be required for me to excel in this field. Further, JGLS (my college) aided in the process as it provided me with the platform to be taught by excellent professors and also gave me access to ample opportunities to learn the nuances of law and hone my skills.
I always believe that it is important to strive to be the best at whatever one does. When I knew that this was not going to be possible in my tennis career (unfortunately, due to injuries), I had to make a choice and a very difficult one. It was a difficult transition, however, the never to give up attitude that I learned through my tennis career helped me through the process. I started to spend considerable hours in the library of my college and soon found myself enjoying the same. I had a revelation then that being a sportsperson, I gained and internalised very essential life skills of being disciplined, perseverant and hardworking. All of it aided in the transition process and till date helps me to strive to be a better lawyer each passing day of my life.
You got a chance to attend Summer School at Somerville College, Oxford University to complete courses in International Law and Global Governance in pursuance of your LLB degree. How were you able to secure that opportunity? Please share the experience.
It was an opportunity provided in college and I was able to secure a position in it based on my grades and a Statement of Motivation that I had to write and submit. The Statement of Motivation had to contain my reasons/motivations to pursue these courses at Oxford University.
It was a very enriching experience. I must say that the teaching patterns used in such an esteemed institution are worth experiencing once in a lifetime for sure. We used to have the lectures given by subject matter experts in the morning hours and during the late afternoon hours, we used to have tutors teaching us the same matter with extensive classroom exercises making it very interesting. I felt that they made us engage with the subject to an extent that it ignited the motivation to do further research and acquire more knowledge in the said subject. I believe there is nothing more that one can ask as a student.
After your education, you moved back to Kolkata, your hometown. Many stayed back in Delhi or Mumbai for better opportunities and bigger pay packages. Was this a conscious decision to move back to your hometown? If so, why? How challenging was it?
Yes, it was a conscious decision taken by me to move back to Kolkata after my studies. I had stayed out of home for too long due to my training, tennis tournaments and then studies. Therefore, this time around, I wanted to start in Kolkata itself and see where life takes me. Thus, to sum it up, the reason was simple. I wanted to live my life on my own terms and did not want the situation around me to determine the same.
It was very challenging but with persistent effort, I did secure a position in HSA Advocates. I remember that day and it’s been more than 5 years since then that I continue to work with the same senior and team and it’s been a great learning experience so far. It’s also been very exciting to be a part of the growth story of Citadel Law Chambers where I get the exposure to practice all areas of law and not be limited to one. I truly believe if you are good at something, you will do well wherever you are. Opportunities and money will follow.
You have published articles in some reputed journals and forums including IBLJ and Mondaq. How did you get into writing? What are 5 essential practices one should start to become better at research and writing?
I got into writing extensively when I was in law school. The seeds of it were sowed then and it continues to be a very essential part of my life.
The five essential practices to start would be: (1) read and write every single day. Such practice on a continuous basis will 100% show results; (2) gain comprehensive knowledge about all the databases that one needs to refer to for their respective subject matter; (3) learn the skills to know what to look where. This is a very important skill for a lawyer. There is no way around it; (4) technology has now become a very important part of our lives, therefore, to be better researchers, one should stay abreast of all the tools one can use to locate materials for their respective research; and (5) writing well is a skill that comes with time and with well-grounded research, therefore being persistent with the practices mentioned above would be extremely important.
You cleared the Custom Brokers Examination under the Custom Broker Licensing Regulations. How did it help you in your corporate career? As per your experience, how would you advise someone preparing for this exam?
My family is into the business of providing end-to-end logistic services (for two generations now) to importers and exporters which includes custom clearance services as well. Such services can only be provided by licensed customs brokers. Since this is a part of my family business I got first-hand experience of it during family discussions. I also gained practical knowledge of it with time. I also got to know that such service could only be provided by people who have sound knowledge about laws governing the logistics industry. Therefore, since I had completed law and the said business was a lot dependent on the laws governing the logistics industry, I decided to give the exam and continue the legacy. It really widened my knowledge base and also provided me with the opportunity to learn about laws governing logistics services in India.
Additionally, it helped me in my corporate career to understand the businesses of clients who were providing such services. To pinpoint, it came in very handy when a legal due diligence exercise was being carried out on a company which provided similar services. It made it much easier for me to discern the business-specific licences and consents required for such services. It also helped me while providing advisory services to clients on compliance requirements under food safety regulations for the import of processed goods in India.
The examination process was pretty rigorous. I had to sit for a written exam and thereafter an oral round which was taken by three IRS officers. One thing that I would like to mention for the people taking the said exam is that it is very important to solve question papers of past years (as many as possible) while preparing for such competitive examinations. It really helps to understand the type of questions which may be asked and the areas of law that one needs to concentrate upon. Further, the oral rounds are entirely on your confidence. It is important to know Customs Act in its entirety but it’s even more important to be confident and own up when you may not have an answer to a question in particular. Such officers really appreciate honesty rather than giving wrong answers.
You worked on various corporate commercial, M&A, and banking finance transactions. Can you share some of the nuances in this practice area for law students and professionals who are not exposed to this area of practice? Why should they choose this area of practice?
The nuances of these practice areas range from conducting legal due diligence for highlighting the red flags to preparing, negotiating and closing the documentation part for any transaction. It also includes providing advisory services which range from structuring a transaction/deal and advising on corporate actions taken by corporate bodies including corporate restructuring.
I believe the reasons for any student/lawyer to choose these areas of practice should be their knack for diligence and sound knowledge and interest in commercial laws.
Please share any two golden rules that you follow in your career which could be helpful for students and upcoming legal professionals.
Two golden rules that I follow are (1) there is no substitute for hard work. As we all know “hard work beats talent when talent doesn’t work hard” (Tim Notke). Therefore, one needs to understand and internalise that there is no shortcut to the learning process and being perseverant is the key; (2) once you decide to be a lawyer, you need to understand that you have signed up to be a lifelong student of law, therefore reading and applying the law on an everyday basis is an important rule that one needs to practice.
How would you like to introduce yourself to our readers?
I am Anirudh Suresh, Founder of Aristo Legal, a full-service pan Indian corporate law firm. My success story as a first-generation lawyer was recently published by Brut as I was recognised among the Top 50 Disputes Lawyers in Asia (Litigation and Arbitration) by Thomson Reuters on the basis of my work, market feedback and client recommendations. My interest in law and legal enforcement goes back to my 10th grade. While I don’t exactly recall the genesis of this interest, I sure till date remember and feel its intensity.
We get that being a first-generation lawyer, it is difficult to find one’s footing. You started off as a Litigating Lawyer and then you moved up to become a Corporate Lawyer. Can you share what all struggles did you face while being a Litigating Lawyer and then as a Corporate Lawyer? What all skills did you learn as a Litigating Lawyer which are now assisting you in your current role?
As a Litigating Lawyer for the first 5 years, I was working 8 AM to 8 PM, 365 days a year but I never complained about it as I was involved in my work deeply and enjoyed the learning experience step by step. It’s a matter of interest, at the end of the day. I used to appear before all courts in Bangalore for all sorts of matters and this helped me in developing a diverse and strong foundation, eventually allowing me to head the Delhi office of Bathiya Legal successfully as we had a range of matters under the Companies Act, Insolvency and Bankruptcy Code, and Competition Act. I never felt any of these experiences to be a struggle as I enjoyed the work and liked what I was doing. In fact, it never felt like work either. So, the knowledge and court craft I had developed as a litigation lawyer enabled me to successfully implement it for the corporate litigations matters that I took. This journey has given me the confidence to handle any matter before any court.
You’ve accomplished so much in your career in such a short time; what skills do you think a law student should develop in order to pursue a career in Corporate Law?
Firstly, I feel like I still have a lot to achieve. I would recommend that law students read the entire commentary on a subject rather than reading only the textbook. This will mean that they would have read thousands of pages, and this reading habit will help improve their drafting skills and legal communication skills. And the hard work put by them in reading so many commentaries will bear fruits when they start practising. Further, they should meet lawyers in different practice areas and understand the practical aspects of those areas. For this, I would recommend students complete at least six months of internship under a corporate law firm or a corporate lawyer.
You have graduated with B.A.LL.B. from B.M.S. Law College, and then went on to pursue your PG Diploma and Masters from National Law School of India University and O.P. Jindal Global University. How important do you think it is for a law student to pursue Masters? Does it help one in his career trajectory?
I often see law students rushing to get a master’s degree immediately after graduating from law. I would recommend that the students should start their practice in a particular area of law and get accustomed to a particular practice area as a working professional and then pursue Masters in that relevant practice area. This would make the master’s degree have value as your work experience and your interest would align with it.
You have also led the Delhi Office of Bathiya Legal for about 3.5 years. What exactly were your responsibilities while you were there? How would you describe your experience of working at such a reputed law firm?
My responsibility as the head of the Delhi Office was to handle all the corporate litigation matters in Delhi, Jaipur and Chandigarh and work closely on M&A and Private Equity transactions when the buy-side or the sell-side was based in Delhi. I regularly appeared before various forums such as Supreme Court, High Court, NCLAT, NCLT, DRT, Consumer forums, etc. And this journey helped me develop myself as an advocate and realise my potential. I will forever be grateful for the platform that Bathiya Legal gave me. The amount of confidence, trust, and faith that the Partners put in me, and I hope I have reciprocated the same by ensuring positive results with the best of my efforts. I was very much impressed with the values, ethical standards and calmness to approach of the Partners which I too hope to implement. I can go on writing volumes about the positive influence this firm has had on me.
Your work as a corporate lawyer has earned you a well-deserved appreciation in the legal industry. What have been your key learnings to date? And what does it feel like to be recognized among the Top 50 Disputes Lawyers in Asia (Litigation and Arbitration) by Thomson Reuters?
I would like to reiterate that I still have a long way to go as known is a drop and unknown is an ocean. My key learnings to date would be that Client satisfaction is key and this can be achieved with extensive research and ensuring timely deliverables. And I feel that my work in the past which involved getting successful reliefs for clients in high profile precedent-setting matters has been acknowledged by this recognition bestowed upon me by Thomson Reuters, Asian Legal Business.
It is now close to a decade that you’ve been in the legal profession. What do you think is the difference between the law profession right now and the profession a decade back? And, what all changes would you like to see in our Indian Law Profession?
The legal profession has completely changed in the past decade. Both substantively and procedurally, one could probably call it one of the most dynamic and important decades. Many new age laws such as the Insolvency and Bankruptcy Code, Companies Act being overhauled, Data protection Law etc. have come up and they are constantly subject to change based on different interpretations given by the courts every other day or based on amendments passed by the government to keep pace with the rapidly growing economy. In terms of practice, the profession and the professionals have been highly digitalised, and it becomes vital for lawyers to be tech-savvy.
I would like to see more courts make way for hybrid hearings such as NCLT and NCLAT. The normalization of hybrid hearings would be a much welcome development towards implementation of the online dispute resolution. I would also like to see long term internships that range at least 6 months being made mandatory for law students during their final as it helps them to get a true picture of a particular practice area.
What would be your parting advice to the budding lawyers? How would you like to inspire those who are unsure about their future in the profession?
Read, read, read. One should find what motivates them to keep them going. A healthy relationship with colleagues, respect towards seniors and ensuring timely deliverables to clients should be a habit rather than a mode of precaution. Never look back and compare yourself with peers, just keep yourself occupied all the time and the work you do will automatically lead you to the path suitable to you.
Coming from a business background, how did you gravitate towards the law? What other career would you have chosen, if not law?
From my early days, I was intrigued by the corporate world and wanted to be a professional instead of continuing my family business. As part of career counselling, law was identified as one of the professions’ I had the skill set for, maybe, due to my problem solving and persuasion skills. My parents always encouraged me and gave me full freedom to pursue any career of my interest. They supported me in all ways when I decided to pursue law as my career. Since my childhood, I was inclined towards computer games and also had an imaginative mind. So, if not law, I would have enrolled myself in a game designing course.
It is said that getting a mentor is the first step towards attaining success. How true do you think the saying is? Do you think a mentor plays a crucial role in the growth of a person? What type of mentor would you suggest for a law student?
I completely concur with the above saying, indeed I was lucky enough to get mentors in my life who had seen more talent and ability in me than I myself would have seen and helped in bringing out the same. They gave me an opportunity to work and assist them on big-ticket and complex transactions at a very early stage. I was made part of each and every phase of the transaction from the very beginning of my career so that I could learn in its entirety. I truly believe a saying that mentoring is a brain to pick, an ear to listen and a push in the right direction. In my view, every law student should have a mentor who is approachable, non-rigid, a good listener, non-judgemental, eager to invest in others, able to give honest and direct feedback. I am also fortunate enough to become a mentor for other law students now by becoming a mentor at Mentorology.
Litigation is notoriously time consuming and unpredictable. What changes according to you should the litigation sector imbibe to truly turn into the fundamental learning place for an advocate? Is struggling in the litigation sector worthy of effort?
In my view, one of the perennial reasons for excessive delay in delivering judgements is the ease of adjournments. Although Supreme Court had advised and Civil Procedure Code has enough provision for the imposition of realistic costs for every adjournment, costs are rarely imposed and therefore, litigants and their counsel think nothing before asking for an adjournment. Further, the registries of the courts are tasked with the judiciary’s administrative functions. Administrative support functions needed by the judiciary, identification of process-related inefficiencies and advisory on legal reforms, should be delegated to a specialised professional agency that has administrative expertise, specialisation, modern management practices and technologies. Also, a massive house-cleaning exercise in every single court to identify cases that are infructuous or not worth pursuing will surely reduce the pendency of legal cases. Indian legal system is also required to adopt technology and artificial intelligence in every phase of functioning.
Most of us struggle with pursuing different courses at a time but you pursued the Company Secretary course and Master in Business Laws while you were pursuing your law graduation. How did you manage to pull it off? Can you tell us a bit about your study pattern, and would you like to share a few tricks to ease the learning?
The mantra I always used to sing while studying is to read as much as possible and re-read it at regular intervals. Always remember, play when you play and study when you study. Being focused in every moment is very important and challenging at the same time in today’s age of cell phones and tablets. Underlining keywords with different colours and complementing the study notes with mind maps will surely reduce the time in memorising the legal concepts. One should also inculcate a habit of reading bare acts, being the holy water of law, and judgements from college time itself.
You worked for almost 9 months as a Paralegal at ARA LAW, a boutique law firm and later you were handed a PPO. Can you share about your job responsibilities of both while you were a Paralegal and later on when you landed the job?
I was never a morning person until I joined ARA LAW and used to reach the office an hour early. Every day before office hours began, I used to read the latest updates to existing laws, important judgements, legal news, etc. and used to discuss the same with my seniors, as keeping abreast with the rapidly changing corporate legal environment is essential for any lawyer. As a paralegal, I also used to research, attend and take notes of the calls/meetings, proofread agreements and make summaries of agreements/documents provided by the target entity for due diligence purposes. I have always believed in doing work diligently and sincerely without thinking much of the outcome. My work spoke for me and as a result, I was offered PPO by ARA LAW. As a lawyer, I used to assist my seniors in drafting and revising the transaction documents, preparing the due diligence reports, drafting legal opinions, etc.
Can you tell us a bit about your current job role and responsibilities?
As a transactional lawyer, I wear several hats in the process of working through a deal i.e. an advisor, mediator, negotiator and drafter. I provide advice on matters relating to M&A, strategic alliances, regulatory aspects, etc, prepare reports and opinions on diverse corporate matters relating to Companies Act, FEMA, SEBI regulations, stamp duty, etc., handle legal due diligence exercise, negotiate the transactional documents, drafting, vetting and execution of all the transactional documents. One of the biggest challenges and at the same time, most exciting aspect of M&A practice is that your schedule is exceptionally uncertain and highly variable in terms of intensity. I am fortunate enough to lead a team of associates who are extremely capable and flexible enough which makes my life easy when we are faced with an accelerated deadline.
You have led several acquisition deals like Patanjali’s acquisition of Ruchi Soya, acquisition of Innov8 by OYO, Lemon Tree’s acquisition of Keys Hotel and more. What were your key experiences/takeaways from these acquisitions?
The sound understanding of commercial and business complexities besides the legal intricacies of a long-drawn M&A transaction and precisely communicating the same to the client as well as the other side while negotiating the deal is a bedrock skill that cannot be dispensed with. Further, a corporate lawyer is expected to think and reach with the same sense of adventure as that of his client as in the corporate world, there is no decision making without an element of risk. At times, in M&A transactions, you are faced with seemingly insurmountable obstacles wherein you have to train yourself to not merely focus on the specific issue at hand but also you have to consider every possibility, never being dismissive of anything and think out of the box to steer your client through the M&A deal. Further, we need to be highly responsive to clients and comfortable with interweaving work and personal life because of the technology we have today.
What will be your parting message to our young lawyers?
I have heard several times from young lawyers that they ‘do not understand’ their seniors or ‘have no idea what is going on’. Bizarrely on the same knot, they also shared that they do not address their queries and issues with their seniors. Establishing an open channel of communication with seniors would certainly help you in setting the work environment straight. These seniors can also show you the ropes and take you under their wings. As young lawyers, we are often driven to learn as much as we can and as fast as we can. Blinded by the thirst to improve, often we find ourselves volunteering to take on voluminous tasks which we may not be able to execute effectively. In case you find yourself in such a position, speak to your superior in advance, instead of attempting to move mountains in a short span of time. At the same time, remember always that the grind in the early years will pay off in the long years ahead in your practice. Focus all your energy on working hard. Attention to detail is also indispensable for any corporate lawyer as small mistakes could significantly cost a lot to your clients (and your organisation) and therefore, it is an absolute must for you to work on this quality from the start.
You completed your master’s in finance from the University of Mumbai and went on to pursue an LLB from the same institution. What prompted you to choose law as a career?
It was a result of push and pull – my inherent abilities and passion to work on complex issues prompted me towards the legal sector. Legal matters carry different facts/backgrounds, which makes it challenging to find the solutions we wish. During the 80s, the economy was static and not dynamic as today, so the comparatively opportunities were less in other sectors. IPO boom in the decade of 1990 and my basic qualifications Law with CS, worked well for me to taste entry-level success quickly. I can never forget those days when I was used to getting at least 2/3 interview calls in a month.
While pursuing your M. Com and LLB from Mumbai University, you were employed as an Executive with a premier public sector bank, the Bank of India. How did you balance work and academics?
If you wish, you can find time and a way to balance anything. My willingness to work for extended hours, coupled with my attitude to never deny any kind of professional work, gave me enough elbow to keep going on both fronts. I kept working the extra mile regularly with honouring commitments that genuinely kept me in the good books of my superiors and also the customers of the Bank of India. I take the liberty to thank all my bosses and colleagues at the Bank of India, who encouraged and supported me in that growth struggle.
It is known to very few people that you have fought tough health battles growing up, can you share with our readers how you overcame these personal challenges?
It was a bad phase of three years of my early life. It started when I was in the seventh standard. I was a victim of ill-medical treatment. Everyone, including my father, lost hope of my recovery.
However, with the strong moral support of my mother and late Dr. Phadke, I could survive and bounce back. My grades during those periods were below good, though I ensured passing every year. This recovery made me internally strong and never-loosing-hope personally.
You studied at the Institute of Company Secretaries of India (ICSI) post-college and became a Company Secretary. Could you tell us about your experience and why you chose to become a CS?
Everyone dreams of reaching the TOP. CS is one of those toughest but shortest routes, which allows you to attend Board Meetings with Directors. Though I was a qualified banker, the lesser opportunities forced me to think out of the box. All this led to my joining and completing my CS Degree. Though I completed CS, I had to work initially on financial work more than CS. The habit of long working hours, with a helping attitude, enabled me to finetune and convert my fortunes as General Counsel & Compliance professional. I must agree that the CS degree helped me catch my missing bus of destination to Top, which I missed during my twenties.
You started working with one of the biggest conglomerates of India (TATA) International Limited as a Divisional Manager in their legal team. How did your training in law and finance help you during your stay at the company?
Working with TATA introduced me to pan-India legal working and also globally accepted ethics standards. My professional experience expanded geographically to cover pan India and south Asia. I thoroughly learned universally accepted governance and ethics during that period.
Atul Juvle:There is nothing like NO-GO, it’s always KNOW & GO.
You successfully completed two joint venture – what was your learning experience with the same?
While leading the M&A function, I was able to optimize my commercial and financial knowledge. I could improve my people handling / negotiation skills. Active responsibility and involvement in both the joint ventures from concept to closure enabled me to acquire people management and negotiations skills, besides honing legal aspects in M&A.
You went on to work at a Private Life Insurance company, where you were the Vice President for Legal and Compliance. Could you tell our readers the charter of legal duties associated with an insurance company?
Insurance and banking companies are highly regulated companies. I had an exciting experience of interpreting and adjusting the compliance system with the changes. Just to explain to you the compliance dynamism, during the year 2010-11, there were more than 60 circulars, which effected changes in compliance provisions related to Insurance companies. I was able to manage the responsibilities only with the help & support of a capable and work-hungry team.
You have also worked as Legal Head for Agro-base company. How was that decision to switch from insurance to an agribusiness company rewarding on a personal as well as the professional front?
On the professional front, I moved on to another highly regulated industry under food safety-FSSAI regulations and metrology provisions. But the major difference between the two regulations was the penalties for violations, majorly imprisonment and financial penalties. So, compliance becomes more serious compared to insurance. I learned to implement system-based compliance for a majorly unorganised sector.
The experience was rewarding on a professional front, as was able to change the perception of the legal department and build a dynamic legal team.
You moved to Schindler India Pvt Ltd., serving as the General Counsel for India and South Asia. Could you explain what kind of work a General Counsel entail? Can you walk our readers through a typical workday?
Overall compliance of all the applicable laws to business, factory, CRD & overseas distributors. Legal- advisory, litigations- filing/defending. Code of Conduct- training, audits, investigation. Company secretarial compliances.
A typical workday begins with refreshing with legal updates for the first half an hour and then moving on with the tasks identified for the day. Normally the number of identified tasks doesn’t go beyond three. It doesn’t mean that every day, I will always have three tasks.
Sometimes it can be one also. But such buffer time is used to work on long-term projects and review three-year horizons to keep the legal department future-ready. The other part of a typical day is catching up with the scheduled digital meetings on open tasks or business operations requests. Before the end of the day, the stock is taken on pending activities, new tasks and the calendar for the week’s balance is appropriately amended.
You have been enlisted as Top General Counsel (GC) in the Forbes Legal Power List of 2020 and ranked in the Top 100 GCs-2020 list published by Business World Legal. What value do these titles hold on the personal and professional front? Are these a parameter of success or a checkpoint?
Recognition is fuel to success, but before that, it also acts as a checkpoint. When one goes through the questions for nomination, he/she understands – are we performing with Industry standards or not. So, the process acts as a checkpoint as well as an eye-opener. I started filling and dreaming of recognition for the last decade, but the first success I got after failing for 5 years. During the intermittent time, I kept on introspecting, improving, and raising the bar of my professional achievements before making myself self-deserving for recognition. This process automatically tremendously improved my performance in my company internal responsibilities. Benchmarking with the industry always gives a bigger idea of improvements. These titles create legacy value on the personal as well as professional front.
Your team has been named as one of the Top 100 performing teams by Legal-500 UK. How do you endorse the idea of creating a strong culture of teamwork?
Promotion is possible in two ways- one way is you perform, and the other way is your team performs. When both the ways work together seamlessly, one can achieve spectacular performance. It’s an amazing journey of the last seven years with Schindler India, building a strong, dynamic team, where each player has its own specialities, but he/she is an all-round performer. Transparency, trust and a win-win attitude are three important requirements to build a team. Transparency includes personal discussions, understanding each other’s expectations, receiving and giving feedback, creating synergies and, most important, keeping commitments. All this leads to the creation of the trust. Win-Win attitude building is slightly difficult, as each one competes with growing, but creating a synergy of individual aspirations makes it easier.
What are your views on the prospects of the legal industry in the coming decade? Will the face of the legal sector undergo a drastic change, keeping in view the challenges entailed by the pandemic?
Let me start by thanking the pandemic for pushing the legal industry into digital mode. The changes planned over 5-8 years were brought to the desk in April-May 2020.
Prospects for the legal & compliance industry has tremendous potential for the next two decades, as India is poised to grow to 3rd or 2nd level in world GDP countries. This also means the country’s journey towards reaching the destination of developed countries. Legal is required to start, close and also for running business smoothly. All this sounds very well for the legal & compliance industry.
The legal industry’s future will gradually see 60/70 % of activities done online through machine learning or artificial intelligence. The compliance system has already moved online, and now it’s a turn of legal. With the courts becoming comfortable working on the digital platform, the day is not far when the majority (if not all) litigation activities, including all types of ADRs, will move to the digital platform. Eventually, majority litigation is expected to move to objective arguments & resolution. Efficiency and efficacy of working will improve multifold. The speed and accuracy of artificial intelligence are amazing. Depending on cost-benefit analysis, I feel there may be two classes- big set-ups will have their systems in-house, and small & medium set-ups may use external service providers. Large legal departments will need to have one tech-savvy counsel.
Lastly, how do you take time out for your hobbies and family with multiple responsibilities under your belt? What would be your advice for young law students and lawyers?
I am a strong believer & follower of Stephen Covey- 7 Habits of Highly Successful People. I always plan my professional schedule considering 5 days a week, with 3 major tasks per day, which entitles me a bonus of 2 additional days every week. These two days take care of my overrun of the project in the first five days, if any and hobbies, work-life balance, and becoming ready with full energy for next week. My hobbies include spending time with family, watching movies every week, which keeps me updated with the social environment and also more motivated in life sometimes, new learnings – the habit of at least one certification a year, karaoke singing, Zumba, walking etc.
To young lawyers & colleagues, I can only share what worked well for me. Planning 5 days a week with 3 major tasks per day helped me a lot in clocking success on professional as well as personal fronts. Planning and staying committed to the plan is rule no.1. The most important aspect of life we always keep in the backseat is taking care of health. I never took sick leave after my childhood three years long health-episode. That doesn’t mean I don’t fall sick, but I take of it at first level and don’t delay or neglect it. Health is person-specific, so one must monitor himself/herself and take care proactively before the doctor prescribes it. If one is not fit, the value of all other qualities normally fades. All successful professionals are student life long, so one should keep learning, relearning, and upskilling to remain relevant in current times and keep oneself future-ready. I learned from my female teammate, who said one should celebrate a birthday only if he/she has learned or achieved something new. I follow this regularly.
