Super Lawyer

Tag: NLUJ

  • Vinay Subramanian, Associate, AMSS, on moot courts, internship experience and job experience at Luthra and Cyril Amarchand

    Vinay Subramanian, Associate, AMSS, on moot courts, internship experience and job experience at Luthra and Cyril Amarchand

    Vinay Subramanian graduated from NLU, Jodhpur in 2011. He has been an avid mooter and debator during law school. He has won various moot court competitions including 9th Amity Law College National Moot Court Competition. He has also won the ‘Best Victim’s counsel’ award at the prestigious “International Criminal Court Trials Competition held at Hague, Netherlands”. By the time he graduated, he had received a job offer from Luthra and Luthra Law Offices where he worked for around three years. He is currently working as an Associate at Cyril Amarchand Mangaldas.

    In this interview he talks about:

    • Law school experience at NLUJ
    • winning moot court competitions
    • Internships and Work experience at Luthra and Luthra Law Office
    • Induction and work at CAM

     

    Before I begin, I would like to present my disclaimer to any and every person who purposefully and accidentally and who by ‘accidental purposefulness’ directs himself to this page:

    “By reading this you are officially on notice and you agree from the beginning of time to the end of the world that you will be bound by that notice (whatever that means). The associate herein (whose stellar repute is beyond any contention) hereby makes no guarantees, warranties, or representations, whether express or implied, or specific or general, regarding the accidental humorous or deliberately soporific replies to the questions in this interview. The associate (whose always just doing his job really) does not indemnify the readers from any actions, trauma, claims or injuries (whether physical or mental) caused by the trauma of reading this piece or the reader’s choice to pursue a legal career being influenced by the piece hereby. All legal careers are subject to client moods’risks and the law student must always bill carefully while at work and agree to always have a blast.”

     

    Most of our readers are law students and young lawyers. How will you introduce yourself to them?

    Darn! I now feel like I am giving my first firm placement interview all over again. Here it goes – I am Vinay Subramanian. I completed my B.A.LLB. with Honors in Business Law from National Law University, Jodhpur in 2011. I am originally from Mumbai and am presently working in the General Corporate/M&A team at Cyril Amarchand & Mangaldas & Co., Mumbai.

     

    How did you gravitate towards law? Why law and not engineering or medical studies?

    There is an interesting background to this. Unlike most other states, where it is your +12 grades that supposedly ‘shape’ up your future, in Maharashtra, the +10 grades are considered equally important since they determine eligibility to a junior college and the relevant streams. Though I had scored decently in my +10 exams and could have easily gotten admission for Science or Commerce stream, I chose to pursue Arts at St. Xavier’s College, Mumbai, unlike hoardes of other students who were making a beeline for the science and commerce streams. Thus, I probably was more inclined to remain ‘offbeat’. After clearing my +12, I was pursuing Economics and Statistics Hons. at St. Xavier’s College, Mumbai. At that time (around 2005-06), the notion was that it is wise to choose a legal career only if one came from a family of lawyers. Most of the national law schools set up at that time were still in its infancy and hardly had a batch or two passing out of it. In fact, at that time, even the theory of having a 5 year law course was unheard of in Mumbai. Luckily, one of my batch mates drew my attention to the existence of national law schools and the tremendous scope a legal career had on offer. When I dug deeper, I realized that a legal profession had tremendous potential and could turn out to be one of the more rewarding and lucrative careers that students would look forward to in the coming years. Hence, adopting an ‘offbeat approach’ once again, I decided to dive into the water and test its depths.

     

    How would you describe your time at NLUJ? What are the co-curricular activities you took part at NLUJ?

    “Coming back to Life” is how I would describe my experience at NLUJ in a nutshell. Looking back, I am confident in saying that NLUJ has shaped the individual that I am today. Apart from academics, interacting with students coming from different parts of the country introduced me to new cultures and ways of life. The location of the university also provided me an opportunity to put on my travellers cap and wander across the beautiful landscapes of Rajasthan.

    With respect to co-curricular activities, the one thing remarkable about NLUJ is its encouragement for participation in extra-curricular activities.

    I was fortunate enough to represent my alma mater in several moot court competitions, both nationally and internationally. It was a proud moment when we were chosen to represent India at ‘The International Criminal Court Trials Competition held at Hague, Netherlands’ and even managed to bag the ‘Best Victim’s counsel’ award. Apart from this, I have won the ‘9th Amity Law College National Moot Court Competition’ at Amity Law School, New Delhi.

    I have also been an ardent proponent of, and participated in a number of, parliamentary debates held across the country. I have also been a keen fan of travelling and have participated in a college fests held across various law schools in the country.

     

    Tell us about your internship experiences and how they shaped your career choices later.

    I have had the good fortune of working with reputed firms focussing on different areas like constitutional law, civil procedure laws, securities laws, criminal procedure, banking laws, foreign investment laws and contract laws. These include Luthra & Luthra Law Offices (Delhi),  Wadia Gandhy & Co (Mumbai), Fox, Mandal & Little (Mumbai), Bhasin & Co. (Delhi) and K. Ashar & Co. (Mumbai) to name a few.

    All these internships played a definitive role in determining my career. Particularly, it was in one of these firms that I had the unique opportunity of drafting amendments to a state legislation in Maharashtra, which were present and passed by the state legislature a year later. This motivated me towards taking up drafting documents and identifying issues in different legislations.

     

    What do you have to say about mooting at law school and legal writing for journals? Are these helpful even after the student graduates?

    This is a tricky one. It is like asking a doctor whether cutting a frog or cockroach into two during his science class practical is helpful during his career as a neurosurgeon. Moot courts, extempore competitions, parliamentary debates, legal writings and paper presentations must be seen as an aid for the development of the skill of advocacy rather than trying to exactly account for how much of it is applied during one’s legal career. These are mere tricks that prepare you for the real world. I am sure a student who has faced a room full of dissident judges barraging questions left right and centre at him would stand at a better footing while dealing with a high pressure negotiating board room with parties breathing down each other’s necks. Similarly, a student who has a number of publications to his name will be able to draft a legal opinion in a more focussed and cogent manner.

     

    Did you find that your law school education had prepared you sufficiently for the many tasks you were required to execute during your internships and later at your job?

    The above question seems to be limited in scope. I want to take a step further to answer how much a law school experience helps anyone in the real life actually. Much like the mantra for the foundations of any stable and happy relationship, a college education can offer only as much as you are willing to accept. Similarly, in a law school as well, it is the student’s choice as to how much he wants to extract from his college experience and apply it in the real world.

    We were also fortunate that NLUJ adopted a hand in glove approach while approaching academics and co-curricular activities.  For instance, it is probably one of the only law schools in the country which made mooting compulsory for every law student under every law subject and allocated a portion of the grades to it. Thus, this ensured that though students had to focus on academics, it necessarily didn’t mean that they have to sacrifice mooting experiences for academics.  Further, this approach also introduced students to mooting from the first year onwards providing students a head start and acclimatised them to a mooting environment.

     

    After graduating from NLUJ, you joined Luthra and Luthra Law Offices. How did you secure your appointment? What kind of responsibilities you were entrusted with there? How would you describe your experience working there?

    The experience at Luthra & Luthra Law Offices was very enriching. I secured my appointment through the process of campus placements. I worked in the general corporate/M&A team at the Mumbai office. We were mostly involved in advising healthcare and pharmaceutical companies, private equity and strategic investment funds and media companies. We also acted for private equity funds and foreign companies in making investments in the healthcare and pharmaceutical sectors. In my personal professional capacity, I acted as the lead associate in several of these transactions. My role included assisting in documentation, negotiations, interacting with clients and generally leading the deal under the able guidance of my partner.

    As a personal experience, the first three years of your job forms the fulcrum of your entire legal career. In the first or the second year, an associate must be able to decide whether he is cut out for the job or not. However, for this to happen, the firm must constantly be providing a challenging environment to the associate where he is challenged on a daily basis and thereafter arrive at such a decision. I was very fortunate to have an office and a boss who kept pushing me against all odds and forced me to constantly think outside the box.

    As part of the general corporate/M&A team, Luthra & Luthra provides an exceptional insight into the field of foreign investment law, which is the buzzword for any general corporate lawyer. Their understanding of foreign exchange law regulations takes into account the pragmatic approach taken by the regulators towards the law.

     

    After having worked at Luthra and Luthra Law Offices for almost three years, how did the shift to AMSS take place? What prompted you to make this choice and what made this shift possible?

    Every law firm in India is a different setup by itself with its own peculiarities relating to professional etiquettes like work timings, work exposure, client servicing, documentation review etc. It is important for any corporate attorney to get exposed to these different setups before settling down for a specific setup. I believe that the best time to take this leap is before the lawyer becomes too senior in the hierarchy. This was what predominantly guided me to make this choice. Also, at the time, my partner was himself moving to AMSS and I thought the switch was allowing me to enjoy best of both worlds – work under the guidance of the same partner and with a firm that is one of the best law firms in the country for gaining corporate law experience.

     

    What does your current work profile at AMSS consist of? Tell us about the nature of work you’re entrusted with therein and what’s a typical day like? How has been your experience as an Associate at AMSS so far?

    AMSS has been a great experience so far. My current work profile consists of both advisory and transactional work streams. From an advisory perspective, I am involved in providing detailed advice and drafting legal opinions on different aspects of corporate, contractual and foreign investment law. The introduction of new Companies Act has made this field even more interesting since several of these provisions are new and untested. This requires us to delve into the intent of the law (wherever an ambiguity is present) and provide pioneering views on the relevant issues.

    From a transaction standpoint, I am involved in running transactions for several private equity players under the guidance of my partner. This requires constant interaction with clients, negotiating with counter parties and driving the transaction to its consummation.

    A typical day at AMSS is ‘work, work and work’, which, contrary to what it seems to suggest, is not actually a ‘bad’ thing. The multitude and nature of transactions that keeps pouring into this firm is phenomenal. What makes it more worthwhile is the uniqueness of each transaction and question, which makes us push ourselves and strive for excellence.

     

    Corporate law comes with a humongous workload. What made you gravitate towards this field? How do you manage the workload and your personal life?

    Honestly, as any other normal law student, the remuneration was primarily what attracted me towards this field. However, once I entered, I got sucked in due to the variety and diversity of my legal sector. A general corporate law firm profile entails an associate to shoulder different types of responsibilities. Apart from the provisions of company law and contract law, an associate is constantly exposed to different arenas of law on a daily basis. This is very different from a specifically focussed specialization like Competition law or Intellectual Property Laws. This kept the day challenging for me and I continued to row on.

    When people talk about how corporate law comes with a humungous workload, I somehow feel that it is not entirely true. A litigation lawyer has an equally strenuous work life (if not more) as compared to corporate lawyers. I have a number of my peers who are working in different spheres of litigation and I see them slogging equally (if not more) than us. A humungous workload is the benchmark for any lawyer and not alone corporate lawyers.

    The best way to manage workload and personal life is to take advantage of your ‘leaves’ from time to time at regular intervals. As I am an ardent traveller, I like to pack my bags off spontaneously and see what the roads have on offer for me. Even getting away on weekends to nearby places helps you de-stress and reinvigorate one self.

     

    According to you what are the qualities that make a good lawyer?

    I don’t think I am qualified enough to list down these. But from looking at my partner and seniors in action, its determination, focus and genuine fondness for the job that maketh the man in any profession. The thumb rule is – every morning when you wake up, ask yourself whether

    (a) you are determined to reach the office that day;

    (b) you are genuinely enjoying what you are doing; and

    (c) you are being constantly challenged (because honestly ‘staying in your comfort zone’ is just another way for saying that one is ‘stuck in a rut’).

    If the answer is ‘yes’ you will automatically excel at whatever you do and become a good lawyer.

     

    What are the primary professional ethics you follow while at work? What has been your strategy to deal with errors and mistakes?

    I think my answer to the above mentioned question answers the first part. Now for the second part – All I can say is that “To err is human but… to have a client who has forgiven you must be a client who must be cherished and treasured for life and one must ensure that he never leaves your side!” But on a serious note, like any other job, an associate is bound to make mistakes since he is new to the field. Learning from your mistakes is what is more important than crying over the ‘spilt milk’. The best strategy is to remain focussed and keep questioning yourself at every stage of the transaction or advice. The moment you start asking too many questions about a particular point you realize that you do not have enough information on the relevant issue and you need to start reading up. Once you have read enough and understood the nuances, you will realize you are much more confident and this in turn will result in lesser mistakes. Also, this is where the role of an able and approachable senior comes into play. Having a helpful senior provides an associate with a self of reassurance.

     

    Many law students strongly believes that getting a job at one of the top 3 law firms is mostly about securing a high CGPA. Would you agree?

    In my experience, a high CGPA does come in handy at time of procuring a pre-placement offer or getting a foreign firm internship. But I think the buck stops there. Lately, we are seeing a number of top tier firms slowly changing their strategy to pick an “all-rounder lawyer” rather than a one who has only chased the kites of grades during his law school life. Interestingly, on a lighter note, this could also explain why we see most of the top tier firms doing exceptionally well in law firm cricket and football tournaments as well nowadays.

     

    These days there are many law students rushing forth to intern at law firms from their first year itself throughout till their fifth year. What do you have to say about the advisability of law students pursuing such a course of action?

    Choosing your internships wisely during your legal education can be very advantageous when one finally makes a career decision on specializing in one specific area of law. As a law student, we have a very different notion of the specialization areas. An internship actually helps a student break the myths and notions and helps him bridge his expectations with the reality of work life. I believe that at least for the first 3 years, a law student must try to do an internship in every possible area of law that he has added to his wish list for specialization. Also, it would be best during this time, to not join the bigger firms but start with the smaller firms, where there is more scope of interaction with the seniors. By the end of the 3rd year, it is important for the student to zero in on the specific legal area that he intends to specialize in. It is the 4th and 5th year, where a student must focus on choosing internships with firms that specialize in the area that he wants to work in. I used the above as a thumb rule to choose my internships.

     

    AMSS takes on interns as well. What do you feel makes an intern stand out and is very important for him to do to have a chance of getting a call back or even a PPO?

    Unlike what law students think, an intern for associates at top tier firms are as important as what an internship at a top tier firm means to an intern. With the “acche din” juggernaut rolling presently, the associates have their hands more than full. An intern who has a basic idea of the law, is focussed and determined eases the pressure of the associate since he is able to focus on other things while the intern is sharing his/her workload.

    What associates look out for in interns is ‘sincerity’ and ability to grasp propositions well. Thus, if an intern is not able to understand a particular nuance (which by the way is very normal since the intern does not have the type of exposure associates have had), it is worthwhile for the intern to discuss and get clarifications from the associate as early as possible. Once an associate sees that the intern is working and meeting expectations, it is but natural for him to recommend him/her to the relevant partner and assist in the call back/PPO process. Once the partner realizes that his associates have entrusted their faith in an intern, he will be more than willing to bring him/her into the fold since this for him results in progression and growth for the entire team.

     

    What skills would you say is a sine qua non for an intern who wants to excel at work?

    An intern must focus on her ‘research’ skills. It is rare that an intern would ever get to draft a legal document while interning. It is the research skills and ability to point out issues in a particular proposition of law that would make an intern stand out and excel at his/her work.

     

    What would be the one misconception you’d say you’d always held about real life legal work till the time you were an intern but changed once you started working as a lawyer?

    I guess I had watched too much of ‘Boston Legal’ and ‘The Practice’ during my college life to have any notion other than that of waltzing into a law firm as ‘Denny Crane’ or ‘Alan Shore’. As an intern, luckily some of these myths faded away and a blurred image of the reality was shown to me. But when I started working, I realized that as an associate, one has to shoulder much more responsibility and accountability that never existed much as an intern. Additionally, with every passing year, you are responsible for not only training and keeping a check on yourself but also on your juniors who rely on you for your guidance in every area of work.

     

    The question that whether one should specialise in a particular area of law or be more of a general lawyer often comes up before law students. What is your opinion on the same?

    It basically boils down to the nature and preference of a particular individual. It is not like the specialized areas are mundane and one would end up doing only the same stuff day in and day out. However, the basic legislation for the work would be the same. General corporate law helps an associate to try his hand at different areas of law. A general corporate lawyer also helps tie in the specialized areas of law and knit them into a complete package which is then presented to the client. For instance, in any private equity transaction, inputs from the Competition law team and IPR team are taken and provided to clients to provide them with specific inputs of these areas on the relevant transaction.

     

    Where do you see yourself five years from now?

    I like to take one day at a time since in the words of Keats, “In the long run, we are already dead”. I see myself continuing to do something challenging, and determined and striving to excel at whatever I am doing.

     

    Lastly, what would be your message to all the law students reading this?

    In the word of Baz Luhrmann, “Sometimes you are ahead, sometimes you are behind, the race is long and in the end it is only with yourself…”. So keep calm and dream along.

     

  • Kavya Nagaraj, Associate, Tatva Legal, on an unconventional law school experience and work experience

    Kavya Nagaraj, Associate, Tatva Legal, on an unconventional law school experience and work experience

    Kavya Nagaraj graduated with a BBA.LL.B. degree from National Law University, Jodhpur in 2013. During college, she was on research work and has penned down a number of paper for various seminars. She also has an excellent series of internships with a mix and match of law firms and corporations. Soon after graduation, she joined Tatva Legal and currently works as an Associate there.

    We have taken this opportunity to ask her about the several decisive moments in her career amongst other things including:

    • A unique Law school experience at NLUJ
    • Importance of internships
    • Induction and work at Tatva Legal

     

    What motivated you to choose law as a career? How did you get through to NLU, Jodhpur?

    Choosing law as a career was definitely not a backup option for me. I used to interact with one of my seniors from school who was then studying in NLSIU, Bangalore. I got to know the mechanics of a law school mainly from him. Later when I discussed this with my parents, they were very supportive and more excited than me; specially my father. There are no lawyers in my family; so I thought I should go for this.

    I wrote CLAT in the year 2008 and according to my ranking, I got through NLU, Jodhpur. I did not attend any coaching classes; I browsed through the newspapers for the current affairs and brushed up with basic knowledge of law.

    According to me, choosing law as career should not be a backup option. It is one of the best career choices anyone can make. One can gain knowledge every day. Law is not constant; it keeps on growing, which is one of the things that make legal studies to stand out from other professions.

     

    How would you describe your time at NLU, Jodhpur? Please tell us about the manner in which you approached academics while in college.

    NLUJ is one of the best things that have happened to me so far. I have got to learn a lot from this experience, both academically and personally. To be honest, I did not take academics seriously in my first two years of college. Gradually I picked up and started off. Nobody can explain how one can approach academics per se, because everybody has a style of their own in dealing with it. As for me, I gave my best in whatever way I could. I did not go out of my way to do things that would make me dejected just to get highest marks in the subjects. I did not worry much if I sometimes got bad reports, because, hey, there is always a next time. I think that worked well for me. I have a good CGPA and experience in my account.

     

    Would you say a great CGPA is a necessity to kickstart a good career in the legal profession?

    As I said, I was an average student in NLUJ. I was not among the toppers, but I always gave my best in whatever I did.

    According to me, a great CGPA is not a necessity to kickstart a career, because it’s all about putting the things you learnt in college in force. If you know what you are good at and you can let others know that, that is enough to convince the employer that you are ready for that job.

     

    What were your areas of interest during your graduation? How did you go about developing expertise and knowledge in these areas?

    I was always interested in corporate law. That is the reason I chose Business Law as my honours course. We had the best faculty in our college. I learnt a lot from them and of course, our college library had every book that we could ask for. I started writing all the projects and seminar papers from scratch and used to take opinion from the faculty members regarding the writings.

    I think one can be an expert in certain area of law only by experience. I cannot say that I am an expert in corporate law, because there is still a lot to learn, all I need is more experience, more exposure and a lot of learning.

     

    Did you find that your law school education had prepared you for the real world practice?

    Yes, definitely. What the law school provides us is the basic knowledge of law that we require to make use of in whatever field we go into, which is very much necessary. All we have to do is to make use of that knowledge and put it in action. We get a lot of exposure during the internships. That is one of the best things that a law student can experience, as he/she will get to know the mechanics of a legal profession while he/she is still pursuing the studies. They can get a basic picture as to what to chose and how to go about with their career choice.

    The internship experience helps a lot when you finally land up a job. That happened in my case. Since I did most of my internships with law firms, I had a general idea of the work culture. So, it was easy for me to gel in Tatva because of the experience I gained in my previous internships.

     

    How has your mooting experience been?

    Mooting has not been my cup of tea. I participated in the moot courts held in our college for academic purposes only.

     

    What would you suggest a fresh law graduate should do to hold spirit and utilise the opportunities available during the first year after graduation?

    Yes, I agree that the first year after graduation is the most defining time of a fresh law graduate. You get immense number of opportunities and choices, when you are fresh out of college. It is the time when you can patiently sit down and decide what you have to choose and how pursue your career. Many people think that one has to have a job at the end of fourth or fifth year or else their life is doomed. I do not believe in this at all.

    It is the time when you have to decide patiently what you want to do and how to make use of your education, rather than to be pressurised by others. At the end of the day, it is not everyone else’s decision; it is yours. So, choose wisely.

     

    Please tell us about the recruitment process at Tatva Legal?

    The recruitment process at Tatva Legal is very closed. They recruit only when there is a vacancy. I had applied to Tatva Legal through their website, after graduation. Eventually, they called me for an interview and I got selected.

     

    How was the job interview? Do you remember any of the questions asked to you? Please give our readers some tips to nail a law firm interview.

    The job interview was very professional. I was interviewed by the partners, Mr. N.K. Dilip and Mr. Vasudev. I don’t exactly remember the questions asked by them since it’s been two years, but the questions were about general corporate and mergers and acquisitions.

    There is no tip to nail a law firm interview. It is just as any other interview! You basically have to have knowledge of the areas that you are interested in and of the work that the particular law firm does. As many know, a law firm is a small group of lawyers. There will be no big rounds of interviews like aptitude, group discussion etc.  So, the main thing is having confidence and the ability to convince the interviewer that you know the law.

     

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    How tough were the first six months at your workplace?

    Since I do work relating to real estate along with corporate, it was pretty difficult to get to know the technicalities of real estate, as it was completely a new field for me. But gradually I picked up and my colleagues helped me a lot in learning. The first six months is the most defining period where you have to be patient and trust yourself that you can do all the tasks. Many give in to the pressure and confusion and end up quitting during this period. That is one of the biggest mistakes one can make. You have to work through this crucial period and emerge. Gradually, you will realize that it was a piece of cake.

     

    What are your day-to-day responsibilities? What is the most challenging aspect of your job?

    My day-to-day responsibilities include legal due-diligence, both corporate and real estate, along with general drafting and review of agreements and contracts.

    I would rather say that my job is an immense learning process rather than calling it a challenging task. My experience so far has been good; and I hope it will continue the same.

     

    How do you manage the workload and your personal life?

    I think it is an art to manage the workload and personal life. One should know when to spend time at home and when the work needs to be given priority; and you learn it on the job. Everyone has different parameters and zones. I give priority to my personal life on a different level and professional life on a different level. I avoid mixing them both. There are instances when I have to give more time to my professional life. But I compensate that by taking time off to be with my family and friends. It is all about managing your time efficiently.

     

    How do you keep yourself abreast with latest industry news and trends?

    Through newspapers, internet and of course, by researching for all the deals that we take up in our firm.

     

    What are the primary professional ethics you follow while at work? What has been your strategy to deal with errors and mistakes?

    I follow the instructions that I’ll be given by the partners. We are like a family at Tatva. So, if there are any concerns, I openly discuss with my colleagues and sort it out immediately. Errors and mistakes are to be taken into account and learned from so as to not repeat them again. I acknowledge my mistakes, if there are any; and I try my best to correct them and avoid repeating those mistakes in future.

     

    Please tell our reader about the internship and recruitment process at Tatva Legal.

    As I said, the recruitment process at Tatva Legal is close-ended. Candidates can apply through the official website of Tatva Legal and if the requirement is met according to the available vacancy, they will be called for an interview. As for internships, the candidates can again apply through the website, a month prior to the slot they want to intern.

     

    What do you feel makes an intern stand out and is very important for him to do to have a chance of getting a call back or even a PPO?

    A basic thing one can do to stand out is to perform well in the tasks that he/she is assigned. If the interns show the ability to handle the tasks assigned efficiently, they will have a chance of getting a call back. But of course, that would happen only if there is a vacancy. Two of the candidates who were interning in Tatva, Bangalore have been given a PPO.

     

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    The question that whether one should specialise in a particular area of law or be more of a general lawyer often comes up before law students. What is your opinion on the same?

    According to me, that’s a personal choice any lawyer could make. It depends on the individual to specialise in a particular area or be a general lawyer. I chose corporate law because I am interested in the subject and want to grow in this field. It is best to choose what you are passionate about than to give in to the pressure and choose what you are disinterested in and end up disliking your profession.

     

    Many lawyers would say that the actual learning takes place in the years of practice. How far would you say it is true?

    Yes, that is true. You learn through practice, especially in the field of law. Legal practice is where you put all your knowledge in force. I have experienced the same. I have been given an opportunity to showcase my ability to utilize the knowledge that I have gained. The motto, ‘Practice makes man perfect’, should be adopted by every lawyer. There are no set rules in becoming a lawyer; one has to keep learning and growing.

     

    What do you cherish most about the experience you’ve had over the past two years?

    I cherish every instance where my work has got appreciated. Appreciation is one of the ways one can show that the other person is good at what they are doing. I have had a wonderful experience in the past two years. I have got to learn a lot from all the people I work with, in one or the other way. I have grown both professionally and personally.

     

    Lastly, what would be your parting message for our readers?

    The profession of law is a noble calling. It is one of the most brilliant learned and attractive professions. It needs not only high depth of learning but also a sense of social responsibilities which calls for the high and noble conduct. If you have chosen this profession, you are contributing a lot to the society.

    Follow your heart. Never give in to the pressure of others. Choose a field that you would love to build your career in and make your work life blissful.

  • Rishabh Chopra, Senior Consultant, Vahura on requirements of the industry and work in Legal recruitments

    Rishabh Chopra, Senior Consultant, Vahura on requirements of the industry and work in Legal recruitments

    Rishabh Chopra graduated in BBA.LL.B (Hons.) from National Law University, Jodhpur in 2010. Thereafter, he worked at Amarchand Mangaldas (Delhi office) for a year and then switched over to Vahura, a legal talent recruitment and management company as Senior Consultant in Private Practice & Funds. During his college days, he had participated in several national and international moots, and has been a judge at prestigious moots such as Oxford Price (South Asia), BCI moots and Willem C. Vis (East) moot in Hong Kong.

    In this interview, we cover his journey as a lawyer till date, while focusing on:

    • His experience in law school.
    • Importance of moot court activities.
    • His work experience at Amarchand and Vahura.
    • Industry requirements for Vahura placements

     

    Please introduce yourself to our readers. Where did you grow up and attend school? How did you decide to take up law?

    I grew up in Ambala and finished my schooling from Army Public School, Ambala Cantt. At APS, I always kept myself engaged in various co and extra-curricular activities such as Debates, Declamations, Quizzes, Music etc and topped the commerce stream in Class XII because of my interest towards accountancy and economics. This helped me gain admission into one of the top 5 colleges in University of Delhi where I pursued B.A. (Honors in Economics) for a year before taking the law school entrance exams. Although I come from a family of lawyers, law as a career option was not very fascinating (because of this entire notion of doing something different!) until I witnessed the finals of the Raj Anand Moot in 2004. That experience helped me get in touch with Sachin Malhan (founder of LST) who in turn encouraged me to take the law school entrance exams.

     

    You graduated from NLU Jodhpur in 2010 with a B.B.A. LL.B (Hons) in Business Law and Management. Please tell us about the Honours program and your general law school experience?

    One of the key reasons for taking up a course at NLU, Jodhpur (or NLU-J, as people like to call it now J) over another premier law school was a dual degree in law and management. Given that I always had a bent of mind towards management, a degree with this combination was exactly what I was looking at. I definitely enjoyed the managements subjects like accountancy, managerial economics, human resource management and marketing to name a few. As far as my honours program is concerned, I am glad I took up the business law subjects in my penultimate and final years of study as I was able to study the fundamentals of investment laws, mergers and acquisitions, banking and finance. I will be honest- it would have been better if these subjects were taught in a more practice-oriented manner but nevertheless the course helped me understand the basics of corporate law which were quite useful when I joined Amarchand.

     

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    You have had considerable mooting experience in law school. Tell us about your achievements. What, according to you, are the essential skills of a good mooter?

    As you may have noticed, it was the Raj Anand moot’s experience as an audience member that convinced me to go to law school and thus, I took up mooting quite seriously. Mooting was extremely competitive at NLU, Jodhpur- which always meant that we all had to work hard in most of our court room exercises (intra section moots) to reach the intra university competition. In total I did 5 moots- ranging from public international to competition law, from CISG and international commercial arbitration to IPR and then international humanitarian law. I have really fond memories of all these moots not only because of the amount of knowledge I gained by participating in them but also because of the fantastic team members in each of these competitions.

    Going for the Vis East moot (Hong Kong) in my second year of law school was quite an achievement back then and so was being adjudged runner’s up at a competition law moot (which in turn helped me secure an internship at a prominent law firm in my 3rd year of study). Then came the Jean Pictet competition, where our team was the only Indian team to qualify for the international rounds that took place in Evian, France- this competition was definitely a very interesting one- very different from a regular moot and I would strongly recommend it to all law students (for the kind of practical experience and exposure it provides in the field of IHL).

    During my final year of study, I still wanted to be connected to mooting and hence, took up a national moot in Delhi (since the top 10 international moot we were supposed to participate in got postponed for the next year)- where we were adjudged winners. Apart from one moot, I was quite fortunate to receive a citation (individual and/or team) in every competition.

    As far as I am concerned, I could only moot well, if the research was thorough and I knew the loopholes from both sides of the problem. This strategy helped me in preparing for any kind of question that could have been posed during the various rounds of the competition and the same was also helpful from ‘thinking on one’s own feet’ perspective. In addition, one of the biggest takeaways for me from mooting was team-work and organisational skills- I consider these two as the foremost essentials to be a successful mooter apart from presenting your case in a confident and persuasive manner. Using a little bit of wit in arguments and rebuttals is also not a bad idea as long as it doesn’t embarrass the bench or the opposing counsel in any way whatsoever!

    To be fair, mooting is still close to my heart- it’s just that I have moved to the other side now. I have been a regular judge at the Oxford Price (South Asia) and BCI moots and this year also went on to judge/arbitrate at the Willem C. Vis (East) moot in Hong Kong. I personally feel whosoever has enjoyed mooting in law school, should done the hat of a moot court judge- it’s just like giving back to the legal community.

     

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    What was your work profile at Amarchand Mangaldas? What did an average day of work look like?

    At the Delhi offices of Amarchand Mangaldas, I worked as an Associate in the General Corporate, M&A and Insurance team. I was quite fortunate to work in this team as I really learned a lot from my partner (Shailaja Lall) and colleagues (Deepa Mookherjee and Ashish Teni) and those learnings have helped me to a great extent so far. Just like any other corporate lawyer, I worked on various corporate transactions (M&A, JV transactions), incorporation, entry and exit strategies apart from providing clients with general corporate advisory in relation to foreign investment laws, corporate and commercial laws, stamp duty regulations and insurance laws. The reason I say I was quite fortunate to work in this team was because the team gave me tremendous scope to grow as a corporate attorney- I was client facing, was able to speak with clients with minimal supervision from the partners on corporate and insurance matters and because of this trust had a good learning curve from a practice perspective,. In short, I really enjoyed my team and the matters I worked on during my stint at Amarchand even if it meant working for really long hours (thanks to technology)!

     

    After a year at Amarchand Delhi, you joined Vahura, a legal talent recruitment and management company as Senior Consultant in Private Practice & Funds. What does your work at Vahura mainly consist of?

    As I mentioned earlier, I really enjoyed my experience at Amarchand Delhi but I really wanted to be on the business side of the law ever since I met Sachin Malhan (who used to run Law School Tutorials (LST) back then). When he moved and co-founded Rainmaker, I was really intrigued and followed the team’s entire journey from MyLaw.net to Mootopia (similar to what we call Mooting Premier League now). One day, when I noticed Vahura spinning off from Rainmaker only to focus on the legal talent space in India- I knew I wanted to be a part of this journey!

    At Vahura, I lead the search practice for law firms in the northern region. I typically focus on partner and pre-partner level recruitments for our law firm clients and so far have helped law firms grow organically and inorganically. I am also a key member of the law firm recruitment group that focuses on recruiting mid and senior level legal, IP and tax professionals for law firms and funds in the APAC and MEA regions. We now have various top international and regional law firms looking to recruit Indian legal talent as our clients in Dubai, Bahrain, Singapore and Hong Kong. On the research and consulting side, I closely work with top law firms and In-House legal teams on consulting reports on strategy, practice structuring, business development, remuneration structure and partnership restructuring.

     

    What do law firms in Asia-Pacfic,Middle-East & Africa look for in potential candidates? What must an Indian law student do to get hired in these regions?

    In the law few months, we have seen various foreign law firms show keen interest in the Indian legal talent again (thanks to the Modi wave internationally, probably!). On a serious note, this interest has been on the capital markets side as well as on the M&A side. Laterally, most requirements need a US/UK LL.M and a top law firm experience in the past.

    As far as a training contract is concerned, a law student by the end of his/her penultimate year of study, should definitely have good (and consistent) grades apart from being involved in various law school committees/centres. Publications in journals of repute along with laurels in international and domestic moots definitely add to the credentials of an applicant as they showcase his/her good research and oratory skills. Hence, importance of a well rounded and drafted CV cannot be emphasized much. Moreover, what is also critical is the clarity of thought apart from good written communication skills- these two skills can be easily judged from the applicant’s application material (generally in form of a questionnaire) and a well drafted application material therefore is a battle half won (another small tip- be consistent with your answers/responses, when you respond to the questionnaire as well as during your interview). Additionally, students should not only be aware of what is happening around the globe but also understand the implications those changes can have on the business and regulatory environment domestically as well as internationally- this awareness can help them in fetching some brownie points during group discussions and interviews. As far as internships are concerned, it is not important to have 10 or 12 internships on the CV- a few (say 5 or 6 in number) quality internships (ranging between 4 to 8 months) are more beneficial than a lot of 2 week internships.

     

    What essential skills are required to work as a legal talent and management specialist at Vahura? Does an MBA after law help in this regard?

    If someone is considering this role/profile, it becomes imperative for that person to have a consultative mindset towards approaching a situation (it probably comes naturally after having spent five years in a law school with so many negotiations/ consultations/ dialogues/ debates/ discussions with faculty, administration and peers). Also, it would be disastrous to make a move from the industry to the talent management industry by considering the profile of a recruiter as cushy- you not only have to be aware of the changes in the legal talent market and be great at mapping but also need to have that “hunter’s mentality” enabling you to work 24×7- yes, I tend to clock in more hours at work (not necessarily in office) than I used to at my previous organisation. The main reason for this is that you need not be just social but also be able to cultivate, build and leverage relationships (which is easier said than done and takes considerable time especially from a trust building perspective). Another key thing to remember is that apart from having great marketing skills (to market your own organisation in front of prospective clients, to create a marketing pitch for your candidates in front of your clients, and to also promote yourself/your organisation in various social events/social media- you got to do it all!), you need to be a great listener (as a recruiter you should not just listen but “hear” your clients and candidates extremely well).

    As far as an MBA degree is concerned, I don’t consider it a must but it definitely assists you in honing your strategic and managerial skills. But remember, it’s favourable to do an MBA only after gaining some experience in the industry- this is exactly what I did this year when I successfully completed an executive program in management from a leading Indian B-school with a specialisation in HR.

     

    Lastly, what are your plans for the future? What advice would you give law students wishing to work in the same sector as you?

    My definite aim has been to create a positive difference in the Indian legal talent management market and this was a key reason to join the young and dynamic team of Vahura after gaining some experience at Amarchand. As a team, we have been able to successfully achieve this objective in India and hence, are now also concentrating on the APAC and MEA regions. My plans are so far in sync with the vision we all share at Vahura- to make it the sought after ‘Indian legal and governance talent management and consulting firm’ not only in India but internationally as well. So that is exactly what I am working towards- to be the go-to source for Indian legal talent requirements- domestically as well as internationally (which is going to be challenging and exciting at the same time).

    In case anyone is inclined to work in the same sector as mine, I would advise them to take it up only if they are passionate about it and that too after gaining some experience in the legal industry- this industry’s experience definitely helps a lot during as well as after the transition- from being aware about the legal ecosystem in a holistic manner to understanding client’s requirements in an excellent manner for leveraging the network one creates while working! My good wishes to all those who aspire to work in this field and I am happy to connect over LinkedIn for any queries that you may have towards the opportunities in this sector.

  • Vinitha Johnson, Assistant Policy Analyst, CUTS International, on LL.M from WTI in International Law and Economics

    Vinitha Johnson, Assistant Policy Analyst, CUTS International, on LL.M from WTI in International Law and Economics

    Vinitha Johnson graduated from National Law University, Jodhpur in 2011. She worked for two years as an Assistant Policy Analyst at CUTS International, Jaipur. Prior to that, she interned exclusively in law firms. She then decided to pursue Masters in International Law and Economics from World Trade Institute, University of Bern, Switzerland. In this interview she talks about:

    • Working at CUTS International as an Assistant Policy Analyst
    • Masters in International Law and Economics at WTI
    • Tips on SOP, Recommendation letters and scholarships

     

    Most of our readers are law students and young lawyers. How will you introduce yourself to them?

    I graduated from the National Law University, Jodhpur, India in 2011, after which I spent two years working at CUTS International, a non-governmental organization engaged in economic policy formulation. Prior to that, I worked, and extensively interned in law firms in commercial law, private equity and international trade.

     

    How did you gravitate towards law? How would you describe your time at NLU, Jodhpur?

    Very little aptitude for math, and a huge fetish for drama. My time at NLU, Jodhpur was very well-spent. I genuinely started enjoying research during my fourth and fifth year in NLU Jodhpur.

     

    How is your work profile at CUTS International, Jaipur as an Assistant Policy Analyst?

    My work experience in CUTS was life-changing! I was engaged in developing domestic and international economic policy, providing negotiation assistance, and being engaged in providing of capacity-building programs. I worked closely with economists, statisticians and people with different skill sets.

    An economist who is well read, who can play with excel, and who can model, is a force to reckon with, and is most likely to actually propose a solution to a policy problem! They have incredibly brilliant minds, and I was constantly inspired by the people I worked with.

    We worked on a  project which evaluated the impact of India’s trade policy instruments on poverty alleviation – it changed the way I looked at research was one, and I made some of my best friends while working with my team mates on that project. I vividly remember being stranded (quite happily) in the Pulwama district in Kashmir, which produces the highest quality Saffron in the world after interviewing scientists who were working on preserving the brand value of Saffron from Kashmir..

    I realised that producing academic journal articles are a very, very long way from actually inducing change, and I would have to change who I was as a person, and massively expand my skill-set, before I even begun scratching the surface of “making a difference”.

     

    You have numerous publications in various renowned journals. How should one go about writing papers and getting the same published?

    Journals have provided me with a lot of critical feedback about conceptualising my ideas, and improving my writing skills – I know I have a long way to go! From my experience, journals value a badly-written paper with an original idea more than they value a well-written paper which regurgitates what other people have said.

    Don’t publish simply because it is a fad in academia. Aim to provide an input to policy-making. It is easy to come up with innovative ideas when you step out of your comfort zone and attempt interdisciplinary research.

    Ideally, you should get published when you add value to a policy debate. Once you have something to say, you should find a way to say it. Try various forums – international journals, newspaper op-eds, blogs, videos, infographics and tweeting! The surest way to add value in social sciences is by collecting primary data – however, that is not always feasible. So the next thing is to identify a trend which is changing, and analytically discuss what implications this could have – should legal instruments regulating the trend be modified? Should new institutions be put in place?

     

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    How did you prefer Masters at WTI over your job?

    (After having worked at CUTS for almost two year, you joined World Trade Institute, University of Bern, Switzerland to pursue Masters in International Law and Economics.)

    I wanted to study in the World Trade Institute since I was in the fourth year of college. I was advised to obtain significant work experience prior to pursuing a Master’s degree. In any case, I enjoyed work at CUTS so much that I delayed applying for a Master’s degree during my first year there.

     

    How did you choose WTI over others? How did you go about choosing a university?

    I had applied to universities which offered a specialisation in economic policy formulation. I was offered the Emile Boutmy Scholarship by Sciences Po, but I chose to pursue the specialisation at WTI. The WTI is excellent for building a career in trade as it combines excellent faculty and a very supportive alumni network.

     

    How did you go about writing your SOP? Are there any key factors which one should keep in mind before writing the SOP?

    Applying for a course in the US and one in the EU may require slightly different approaches – while the US might value a very emotively drafted SOP, the EU values facts which are well contextualised.

    While writing the SOP, focus on coherence and adding depth to the specific points that you put forth. After identifying three traits which distinguish you from other candidates (could be moots, publications, work experience, leadership), coordinate your CV, your SOP and your letters of recommendation, so that these documents reiterate and triangulate these three main traits, in three different voices, in a cohesive narrative. Further, identify three distinctive facets about the university you are going to, and match them to how you intend to develop your three distinctive traits.

    The strategy is this: the CV lists facts and achievements, the SOP describes your motivation behind those achievements, and your recommender is the voice of a senior person with more credibility than you, who validates your achievements, and further comments on your character traits.

     

    How about recommendation letters?

    I found dealing with recommendation letters to be the most challenging part of completing my application. This is my honest suggestion for anyone applying for education abroad.

    Building relationships with people is integral to building your career, and it is not always the same as schmoozing. There are two types of people – powerful people, and people who like you – these two subsets may, or may not overlap.

    Have SIX recommenders in place – it will save you a lot of stress around the application deadline. These should be a mixture of senior, mid-career, junior professionals and faculty members. You should be friends with some of them, especially the young professionals, because they are the people who will step in when you are crying hours before your deadline when the other recommenders disappear.

    Have four/five drafts of a recommendation for yourself in your application folder. Do all the work for them. Make it as painless as possible. If you are asked to write a draft, contextualise your work experience, and let your recommender comment on your abilities.

     

    Why did you choose International Law and Economics for research?

    Frankly, early on in law school, the only professor who thought I had it in me to be exceptional, administered Trade and Investment law. So I blindly chose Trade law for research. I have not regretted it ever since.

    I moved into trade policy formulation very early in my career, and it was even more exciting than trade law. You wake up in the morning knowing the problems you are working on are quite real, there are real stakeholders – farmers and artisans involved, and you are pretty damn fortunate to even sample work which has the potential to be highly impactful. I sometimes feel I would do it all my life for minimum wage if I had to (this attitude of mine definitely infuriates the stakeholders in my life)!

     

    Please tell us a little about your academic schedules and the general experience of studying abroad.

    The WTI has structured a very intensive ten-month program where you study one subject in considerable depth in one week. A subject-matter expert flies in for the week, and highlights what we should know as future practitioners.

    If one studies the subject before classes commence, and then interacts with the faculty members with a slightly elevated level understanding, you really do gain a lot, because these faculty members are either negotiators, or WTO dispute settlement lawyers or economists who develop international economic policy.

     

    Does WTI provide students with scholarships? Are there any other institutions, which provide scholarships?

    Yes, the WTI does provide students with scholarships, as does SECO. If you are keen on applying to the WTI, you will be pleased to know that the University of Bern offers a Master’s scholarship with a much earlier deadline in the month of November.

     

    How is your experience so far? Tell us about the faculty and facilities. Anything memorable that is stuck in your mind?

    WTI has an amazing network of alumni and faculty members, and they are genuinely committed to helping you build your career. A few weeks back, I requested the Director of my Program if she could advise me on how to start a social entrepreneurship venture. She discussed my ideas with me, and proceeded to put in touch with very important people in international organisations, who could help me develop my ideas. The WTI then assigned me a mentor, who had worked with the Indian government, and was involved in social entrepreneurship ventures. I feel very humbled, and I am very grateful.

     

    Where do you see yourself five years from now?

    So, five years from now… Living in a tree-house (with hi-speed internet connectivity, no reptiles), managing a development consultancy that is well-regarded by the researcher community and policy practitioners, coming up with innovative research products and solutions geared at enhancing export revenue for farmers and artisans. It would be ideal if the consultancy could conceptualise real solutions, tap into well-constructed networks in industry and government, and effectively organise agricultural and artisanal lobbies. It would be even better if we could call government officials (have them answer the phone and reply to emails?!), and discuss the feasibility of possible policy options with them…  Yes, that would be good.

     

    Lastly, what would be your parting message for our readers?

    Do not play safe in the first three years of your career. Start with a small law firm, or think-tank which will let you do all the work – don’t worry about the money at that stage. I would highly recommend working on assignments which “you are too young” to be involved with, so you are forced to grapple with lots of new things to learn, and so the learning curve is incredibly steep.

    Ideally, you should be gasping for air as you work on new, exciting assignments. Don’t confuse “gasping for air” with mindless, bulky assignments which are repetitive, and which possibly drain you. It is not the same thing.

    If you want to work in policy-making, learn the wonders of Excel!

    If you want to start a venture of your own at some point, learn to code, or make friends with people who know how to code 🙂

    Be very honest with yourself about what motivates you. Is it money, stability, status, recognition, or an opportunity to be part of something bigger than yourself? What your peers around you want may not always be what you want/need, and running with the crowd does is not the safest option.

     

  • Aditya Gupta, Senior Associate, Anand & Anand, on an LL.M in IPR from Harvard Law School and a career in Intellectual Property

    Aditya Gupta, Senior Associate, Anand & Anand, on an LL.M in IPR from Harvard Law School and a career in Intellectual Property

    Aditya Gupta is an intellectual property litigator and currently works as a Senior Associate at Anand and Anand. He graduated from NLU, Jodhpur in 2010 and is a gold medallist. He has been a recipient of the prestigious Microsoft Intellectual Property Rights Scholarship, 2009.

    Soon after graduation, he started working as an Associate at Anand and Anand and after three years of works, he joined Harvard Law School to pursue Masters in Intellectual Property Rights.

    While at Harvard, he worked as a Research Associate to Professor William W. Fisher III for a period of six months. After coming back to India, he again joined Anand and Anand but this time as a Senior Associate. He has also been a Visiting Faculty at National Law University, Delhi for a semester and taught a seminar course on Practicing IP law’ to students pursuing undergraduate degree in law.

    In this interview, he talks about:

    • His decision to chose NLU, Jodhpur
    • His experience of working with Anand and Anand
    • His days at Harvard Law School and LL.M experience in IPR
    • The skills of an Intellectual Property lawyer

     

    How would you like to introduce yourself to our readers who are mainly law students and lawyers?

    I am a litigator with a keen interest in intellectual property law and new ventures. I am currently working as a Senior Associate at Anand and Anand.

     

    When and how did you decide to study law? How did you settle for NLU, Jodhpur?

    My decision to study law was not a planned one. I was preparing for pre-medical examinations till late into my XII standard when I suddenly realized that I did not want to be a doctor. For one, I did not have the patience to study for twelve years! Anyhow, purely on instinct and gut feeling, I decided to pursue legal studies. It was decision fraught with risk, especially since I am a first – generation lawyer. As I was quite late into the application process, I only applied for NLU, Jodhpur, NALSAR, NLS and Amity Law School. NLU, Jodhpur was the highest ranked law school that I could get through and that’s why I settled for it!

     

    After graduating from NLUJ, you joined Anand and Anand as an Associate. How did the appointment take place? What comprised your work at Anand and Anand?

    I had interned twice at Anand and Anand during my third year and had received positive feedback. In my fifth year, I applied for a job at the firm through the HR department. I was called for a personal interview with the Head of Department and a few days later I was told that I had been selected. Since I was in the litigation department, during my first two – three years, a lot of my work comprised of drafting court documents, research work and assisting seniors within the firm and Senior Advocates during arguments in Court. I was particularly lucky to work on some high-profile cases with very high stakes which exposed me nascent and as yet undeveloped areas of law.

     

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    How difficult were the first few months of Anand and Anand given that it focuses mainly on a specific field of law?

    I did not find the initiation period very difficult since I had taken a keen interest in IPR ever since third year of college and had interned at IP firms, took courses related to IP at NLUJ and written papers on intellectual property. The quantum leap that one takes after joining the profession is not on substantive law but the way the Courts function and the realization that substantive law is a tiny (though of course important) part of legal practice. Thus while I felt reasonably confident of my ability to handle areas of substantive IP law, I did find that the practice in Courts requires skills in addition to reading and understanding the law, which students are not exposed during law school.

     

    You have specialized in IPR. What made you interested in the same?

    Innovation and creativity are, in my view, the two most awe–inspiring facets of human life. While intellectual property litigation may appear to be a battle between large corporations it is, at its heart, about protection of the innovative/ creative genius of an individual. That intellectual property law endeavours to foster this genius generated my interest in the subject and practicing this field of law for the past three years has only fuelled my passion for it.

     

    Thereafter you went on to pursue Masters in Intellectual Property law from Harvard Law School. Was it a professional requirement to enhance more in your career?

    I had decided that I will pursue a master’s degree in law during my undergraduate studies itself. I wanted to be exposed to the pedagogic methodologies in foreign universities and always dreamed of being taught by the top professors in the world. Once I chose IPR as my career choice, it made even more sense for me to pursue a master’s degree since IPR in India borrows several concepts from IPR across the world.

    The experience at Harvard was everything that I had imagined and much more – libraries providing access to nearly every book in the world, the opportunity to interact with world-class professors who know their subject (and much more) inside out and forming bonds with students from over 60 countries – I think it helped me broaden my horizons both as an individual and a professional.

     

    While at Harvard, you worked as a Research Associate to Professor William W. Fisher III. What kind of work you were entrusted with?

    I worked with Professor Fisher on a specific project that pertained to a multi-jurisdictional analysis on the role that intellectual property law plays in the fashion industry from a policy perspective. Since the project is ongoing, I would not like to discuss much about its details.

     

    After coming back to India, you  rejoined Anand and Anand, and this time as a Senior Associate. What does it take to be appointed as a Senior Associate?

    The firm pre-defines the expectations from members at a particular designation level and consistent performance across various metrics is assessed by the management before taking the decision on whether to promote an ‘Associate’ to a ‘Senior Associate’. Unlike many other firms, the number of years in the firm is not the only criteria and other factors such as interpersonal skills and ability to handle pressure are equally important in determining one’s progress in the firm.

     

    What are the primary essentials of an IPR lawyer? How do you say a fresh graduate can work on building these skills?

    I think keeping abreast with the latest case-law is absolutely critical for practicing IPR. Unlike many other areas of the law, IPR is fast-developing and Courts are exploring new doctrinal areas on a very frequent basis. An Intellectual Property lawyer must also understand the space IP enjoys within a particular company – for instance, IP may form the core of the business for a music production company but it may not be so for an e-commerce company (though of course most e-commerce companies also rely heavily on their brand valuation). It is becoming increasingly important for lawyers to appreciate the business of their clients and clients appreciate lawyers who act as facilitators of their business rather than merely providing a legal opinion.

    Since IPR is a technical subject, it is also important for fresh graduates to understand the basics so that they are able to communicate with their clients in a language which they can understand – without legalese.

     

    Tell us a bit about work culture at Anand and Anand and the life of a Senior Associate. What is your current work profile like? Please tell us about the responsibilities you are entrusted with.

    The work culture at Anand and Anand is very excellent – it not only fosters free and independent thinking but in fact rewards people with fresh and creative ideas. The firm is ambitious and one is driven by this constant desire to deliver a world-class work product. Though the learning curve is very steep, the senior members of the firm are supportive and they help you grow as a lawyer.

    My current work profile involves developing litigation strategy, interacting with clients on a daily basis, arguing matters in Court and assisting others in arguing matters and client management and development.

     

    What has been your strategy to deal with errors and mistakes? How would you suggest a young associate to deal with them?

    I believe that errors and mistakes are a part and parcel of providing any service. Mistakes happen and while one should not keep moping about them, it is important not to have a lackadaisical approach. It is absolutely critical that you learn from each error/ mistake and not to repeat them.

     

    People often complain about the highly skewed work-life balance at the top law firms. What is your usual workday like?

    I am still figuring this one out! For me, I enjoy my work a lot and I do not recall the last time I woke up in the morning and did not want to go to work.

  • Vatsal Gaur, Associate, Khaitan & Co., on receiving PPOs, induction and work at top law firms

    Vatsal Gaur, Associate, Khaitan & Co., on receiving PPOs, induction and work at top law firms

    Vatsal Gaur graduated from National Law University, Jodhpur in 2011. Having decided early on that he wanted to be a lawyer specializing in Mergers & Acquisitions and Private Equity, he interned with top-tier law firms such as Trilegal, AZB & Partners and J. Sagar Associates. He received two PPOs by the end of his third year. After graduation, he worked at J. Sagar Associates, Gurgaon for almost three years before joining Khaitan & Co., Mumbai in May, 2014. In this interview he talks about:

    • The importance of CGPA, moots, publications and debates for a legal career
    • Pursuing a career in corporate law
    • Working at top law firms like J. Sagar Associates and Khaitan & Co.

     

    Tell us a bit about your childhood. How did you decide to study law? Did you have lawyers in your family?

    I’ll answer the last question first. I’m a first generation lawyer. I do not have lawyers in the family. To be honest, law for me was just a choice I made out of high school – as with most kids out of school, we are all supposed to miraculously arrive at our future career paths, and mine happened to be law. I’m quite satisfied with my decision, though. When I connect the dots backwards, I don’t have many misgivings on my choice of career.

    I grew up in a modest background, and with both my parents being civil servants, it was always clear that I really had to make my own mark, and set my own goals. Law was one of those goals. I did not have a fall back option, and I am glad for it.

     

    Do you think having family members or mentors with a legal background help in this profession?

    Yes, most certainly. Having a legacy in any field is irreplaceable. I have read so many times how people quite casually disregard the benefit of a legacy. However, I wouldn’t like to mince words answering this question. In whatever field of law you are in, whether it is corporate or litigation, at the end of the day, contacts help. Equally competent individuals would most likely execute tasks with more or less equal efficiency. Business development and building a clientele is ultimately what sets you apart. And, it is here where having a legacy can be a major facilitator. Having said so, one must not feel disheartened with the lack of a legacy, and instead think of such a void as an opportunity to develop your own legacy. There are innumerable precedents of first generation lawyers who have done well for themselves, and who continue to do so.

     

    Tell us about your law school experience. Share some highlights from your college days that shaped you as a lawyer.

    I ranked in the bottom 15% of my batch in my first semester – maybe because I was experimenting with the ‘law school experience’, or maybe simply on account of youthful incredulity – it doesn’t matter. This had caused a major setback to me back then as I usually fared well in high school; however, in the same breath, I would also say that this was the most beneficial experience for me. I tasted what it felt like to not finish at the top, and what followed was a lot of toil and sweat and more toil and sweat to make amends. The race to the finish line, having started late, is what shaped me up.

    By third year, I had participated in some prestigious moot court competitions, broken ceilings that I thought existed (not literally!), published a fair number of articles (including in business dailies), gotten into public speaking, and of course, continued playing football.

    Not many know this (as I never made a big deal of it, and still would not like to), but I bagged two pre-placement offers before I completed my third year at law school from two of the leading national law firms (and a call back internship with the third, which too was very likely to have culminated into an offer). None of the holders of high CGPAs had an offer by third year.

    The only reason I am sharing this on this forum is to perhaps be a motivation for those who may feel they have been side-lined on account of not having grades. My word of advice to you is: Be a rebel, but not one without a cause. Instead, have a cause to back it.

    Therefore for me, the battles I fought in University, the reality checks I faced early on in my time there shaped me up tremendously. In fact, I feel living in a residential set up away from home (in environments which can get quite demanding as well as harshly competitive) greatly equipped me for life ahead.

     

    How did you fare in your academics at NLU, Jodhpur? Would you say a great CGPA is a necessity to kickstart a good career in the legal profession?

    Following from my response above, I eventually fared well in academics. However, due to the damage done to my GPA during first year, I didn’t finish in the top 10 percentile. At the same time, I finished high enough to be shortlisted for all campus recruitment opportunities. In the end, my CGPA never mattered.

    Would I say a ‘great’ CGPA is a necessity? – a big NO! A ‘good’ CGPA and a ‘balanced CV’ will help just as much, if not more. At least, this should hold true in case an individual is looking at being a transactional lawyer or a litigator.

    I feel the only place a ‘great’ CGPA helps is to secure a job at a UK magic circle firm or if you are keen on academics or, lastly, in securing scholarships/ funding for an LL.M programme. If you are interested in any of these, you should definitely have an eye out for your grades.

    At work, and in daily life, what matters is grit, confidence, hard work, more hard work, real time application of legal principles and the ability to be a problem solver. At many instances you will be faced with situations where you will need to back yourself consciously. Grades are forgotten once you start work just as high school grades are forgotten once you enter college.

     

    Conferences, debates and Moot Court Competitions – do you think participating in these extracurricular activities helps a student in the long run?

    Yes. I feel any form of self-expression is greatly rewarding. Having participated in a variety of conferences, moots and debates, I can dare say the experiences gained greatly helped me develop my legal skills ‘qualitatively’.

    Mooting taught me research and patience; parliamentary debating taught me how not to rely on rote learning, and instead learn the art of expanding on bullets; conferences helped me express myself in forums where I spoke in front of people much more experienced than me in the fields I chose to research.

     

    You have published a lot of papers in various prestigious journals. How should one go about writing papers and getting the same published? Can you give us a few tips to ace the art of paper writing?

    Writing for me started on account of being able to have a stronger CV, but as I went along, it just became a mode of self-expression for me, and I write just for the pleasure of such self-expression.

    I feel each one us have our own ways of self-expression, and I unfortunately do not profess to have ‘aced’ the art of paper writing, and I will, therefore, not be able to provide a one-size-fits-all tool-kit. However, what I could set out, are broad parameters that young authors should keep in mind when writing. Again, these too would vary on what forum one is addressing and your ultimate readers.

    Focus points are:

    • Have your aim straight. Know the point you want to make (similar to a moral to the story)
    • Clear expression
    • Lead your reader to your aim (i.e., to the moral of the story)
    • Do not overstress upon or overdo anything
    • Sophistication over sophistry; preciseness over verbosity

     

    Tell us how paper publishing and other co-curricular activities helped you in acquiring skills that are important for a successful legal career.

    I feel legal writing does play a positive influence in one’s legal career. Similarly, participation in other academic as well as non-academic co-curricular activities also has the effect of shaping your profile.

    At the end of the day, when you get out of law school, people will not recall what grades you have; what they will recall is your impact value. Solid mooting experience helps develop this facet. Similarly, legal writing greatly enables and facilitates drafting work.

     

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    What kind of internships did you do while you were a student? Any remarkable experiences during your internships that shaped your career choices later?

    I focused very early on, on pursuing corporate/ M&A internships. I was lucky to have secured some good internships to start with. I remember that I did not take a single vacation during law school and worked back to back to complete three internships each year. I feel my best internships were at AZB & Partners, J. Sagar Associates and Trilegal. I received a good amount of mentoring and challenging assignments. I was also given a great deal of responsibility, just what I needed as I was working my way up to a good CGPA after the initial hit.

    I feel all my internships had very many remarkable experiences, right from getting a ‘outstanding’ rating from Mr. Gopal Subramaniam during my internship at his office in my 2nd year of University to being able to work on PE/ VC term sheets and research on very contemporary corporate law issues during my internships at Trilegal and JSA.

    I feel I was lucky to have met some really good mentors who saw talent in me, and nurtured it. ‘That’ nurturing did for me, what law school could not – feed my thirst for knowledge and the practice of transactional law.

     

    After graduating from NLU, Jodhpur you had worked at J. Sagar Associates for almost 3 years and then joined Khaitan & Co in May of last year. Please tell us a little about your work profile at these firms and the responsibilities you have been entrusted with.

    Having set myself the goal of being a transactional lawyer, I joined the M&A/ PE team at JSA, Gurgaon. Given that I had started working in this area of corporate law pretty early on in my internships (as early as 2nd year of law school), I had a good hold on the core essentials. Also, given that I had received a PPO from JSA pretty early in law school, the gestation period for me was practically non-existent as I had done rigorous internships with the firm before joining it, where I worked more like an associate than an intern. This allowed me to get right into the thick of things very early on in my legal career. My first legal due diligence for a PE deal came to me in my 2nd week, and transaction documentation started by the end of the first month. I will always be grateful to the firm and my seniors for believing in me so early on and giving me the necessary impetus required in order to develop a quick and steep learning curve – one that I have greatly benefitted from.

    I made a shift to Khaitan & Co’s Mumbai office in May of 2014 and I have greatly enjoyed being part of this set-up. The firm is highly institutionalised and is run on a merit-based system where lineage and family is surmounted by meritocracy and integrity. Joining as a lateral, I have felt very welcomed by the establishment and my colleagues.

    My responsibilities at Khaitan & Co primarily involve advising private equity/ venture capital investors and private M&A players on their investments/ acquisitions, general regulatory advice around structuring of transactions, conducting and leading diligences, negotiating, vetting and preparing transaction documents, and finally, assisting in closing of transactions. We also advise some promoters and target companies during sell-side mandates where we need to change hats during negotiations. My responsibilities at JSA were broadly similar to those described above.

     

    Your main practice area covers Mergers & Acquisitions and Private Equity investments. What prompted you to choose these practice areas? Please share with our readers.

    I was always a bit of an outlier in University, insofar as I started on corporate/ M&A internship roles very early on while most of my batch mates were still being experimental (trying different kinds of internships). Therefore, by the end of 2nd year, I had pretty much decided that I wanted to be a transactional lawyer driving M&A and PE deals. Each of my internships from 2nd year until 5th year were ‘only’ with M&A teams of the various firms I interned with, and I made that choice at the time of applying to these firms. On account of this exposure (quite self-induced, in my case), M&A/ PE was the only natural choice for me.

    I don’t know if the above answer will help your readers, but I suppose what I could broadly state is that you should try and direct your internships. Not everyone is born to do corporate law. There are so many options in law firms – right from competition, tax, infrastructure, banking to intellectual property. Similarly, nowadays, the trend seems to be changing finally where a lot of law graduates from top law schools are opting for litigation over law firms.

    I will highly recommend law students to not follow the herd, and in fact, chose the branch of law that is of most interest. M&A/ PE interested me the most – it really was, and still is, that simple.

     

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    Corporate Law sometimes comes with a humongous workload. What made you gravitate towards this field? How do you manage the workload and your personal life?

    To be honest, I did not have much of a work-life balance in my first two years. I missed all important events – birthdays, anniversaries, the works, and all along I never seemed to mind. I really was a work horse (and do not regret it).

    But over time, I suppose one naturally realises how to prioritise things, and it is something that frankly everyone in the field is constantly trying to learn every day.

    To be honest here, in my view work-life balance is a major misnomer. And the reason I say this is simple. If you really think about it, 80% of our awake time is spent at work, so it is essential you enjoy your work. If you enjoy 80% of your awake time, you automatically enjoy 80% of your ‘life’ time. The balance 20% is what you really need to really think about, in my view, and make the most of!

    With so much information available online nowadays about how demanding different career lifestyles are, I am sure people are well familiarised with a lawyer’s work-life. And to this extent, all I would say is you just need to brace yourself for the long haul if corporate law is your chosen career path.

    I am not a very good example of someone who manages work and personal life too well, so unfortunately I will not be able to answer your last question. However, I would say that I do try and balance work with pleasure every now and then (just as most others also try and do), as it is vital to take a break and refresh yourself whenever you can.

     

    Many law students strongly believes that getting a job at one of the top 3 law firms is mostly about securing a high CGPA. Would you agree?

    After reading my responses above, I hope I can, to whatever extent possible, change this impression! Law firms recruit based on merit, and while a high CGPA is an easy way to assess merit, in practice, law firms do not see that in isolation. I feel having a good internship experience coupled with a well-rounded profile (which includes extra-curricular initiatives as described above) matters far more than just purely a high CGPA driven CV.

    Once you are in the grind (i.e., the workspace), it does not matter what your grades were. What matters is how well you perform, how well you execute deliverables, and how well you can display your skill set. To this end, a person with a well-rounded profile has far greater chances at excelling than someone who only has high grades to show on a CV – purely because the former kind has tested him or herself against far greater experiences and challenges, and is thus more ‘anti-fragile’ (to borrow from Nassim Nicholas Taleb).

    Notwithstanding any of what I have said, what matters most is how technically sound a to-be lawyer is – that is the single most important aspect that recruiters consider, and is irreplaceable as a skill set.

     

  • Adhirath Singh Palawat, Associate, Allen & Overy, on all about the magic circle firms

    Adhirath Singh Palawat, Associate, Allen & Overy, on all about the magic circle firms

    Adhirath Singh Palawat specializes in Mergers and Acquisitions at Allen & Overy. He graduated from National Law University Jodhpur with Honours in Business Law as well as the Mathur Amar Laxmi and Gopal Mal Mehta Memorial Gold Medals for his academic performance. He was also felicitated by the Ministry of Human Resources Development, Government of India for Excellence in Academics.

    He successfully applied to the Vacation Placement programme at both Allen & Overy and Herbert Smith Freehills. While working as a Legal Advisor at Allen & Overy, London, he underwent a six month secondment to Dubai, where he still works. In this interview he talks about:

    • Balancing academics and extra-curricular activities in law school
    • Building a career in corporate law
    • Vacation Placement, Training Contract and Secondment at Allen & Overy

     

    How would you introduce yourself? Could you please share a little bit of what motivated you to pursue law as a career?

    I never know how to answer this one! I’ll play it safe – I am originally from Jaipur; I did my LL.B from NLU, Jodhpur with Honours in Business Law; I presently work with Allen & Overy LLP.

    I was always fascinated by law as a subject because both my parents hold law degrees (though neither of them pursued a career in law), but I decided quite late to explore this academic interest as a career option. If I had to pin it down to something, I would say my interest in law arose because I have always perceived it to be an instrument of social change. Unlike the natural sciences, law is a subject by the people for the people and this aspect of ‘social contract’ always fascinated me. The other reason is that law is a subject that emphasises a lot on soft skills. To be a good lawyer, you need to possess much more than pure technical skills; this is something that resonated a lot with my views on education and what I wanted for myself professionally.

     

    Tell us a little about your law school days at National Law University, Jodhpur? How would you compare NLUJ with other law schools?

    I don’t think I am in a position to objectively compare NLUJ with any other university, but in absolute terms, I look back on my five years at university as the best years of my life (so far). Like any other opportunity in life, university experience is only as good or bad as you make it to be. Are there universities with a better brand name than NLUJ out there? Of course. Does that really make a difference in your quality of education/life and options in the long run? I don’t think so.

    Learning from your peers is an underrated concept in our education system. I personally was thankful for the opportunity to meet so many brilliant people, each impressive in his or her own unique way, be it in academics, mooting, debating or creative pursuits. I think I learnt much more outside the classroom than inside. There are always things one could do differently but, all in all, I had a fulfilling experience.

     

    Upon graduation you received the Mathur Amar Laxmi Gold Medal and the Gopal Mal Mehta Memorial Gold Medal for your CGPA. Please tell us about the manner in which you approached academics while in college.

    I believe one’s academic experience is largely dependent on personal targets and what one wants out of the university experience. Although I was always keen to learn more and gain as much knowledge as possible, I was never in constant pursuit of knowledge; in my view that is insatiable. Time is a precious commodity and everything comes at a cost. I made a very conscious decision to prioritise and divide my time among the various activities I was involved in. I approached knowledge as a means to an end and not an end in itself.

    The truth is that any profession, law included, is result oriented. There are different ways of achieving it as long as you are focussed on the result. I was quite particular about ensuring that my concepts were as clear as possible – to me that matters the most. Academics were very important and I ensured that I was always well-prepared before the exams. But beyond that, I was never one to reserve time every day for studying; I felt there were lots of other things that required my attention and time on a daily basis.

    In my opinion, the trick is in finding a balance, between academics and extra-curriculars, between dedication and efficiency. It is a very personal decision. For me, it was much more important to grow holistically and become a better-rounded person than focus solely on academics and I have never regretted that.

     

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    You were recognised by the Ministry of Human Resources Development, Government of India for Excellence in Academics. Please tell us about this felicitation.

    I received a letter from the Government of India informing me that I had been selected for the recognition and that I was invited to attend the Republic Day parade in New Delhi from the Prime Minister’s box as a guest of the Prime Minister. They had selected students from across the country. I understand this was based on my academic performance at school and during the first year of university. I was really grateful for the recognition.

     

    You were also a member of the Editorial Committee. How significant do you think that the experience was?

    I had been an editor of my school’s magazine and wanted to continue such involvement during university. I was a member of the Editorial Committee during the first year. The experience was quite enriching for various reasons, not least of which was the opportunity to learn how to work with different people. First year is a time when everyone is still in the process of discovering themselves, their interests, their ambitions and what activities they would like to pursue in the future. I eventually realized that I was more passionate about and could make a greater difference as a member of the Academic Support and Literary Committee, which I was involved with for the four years that followed.

     

    You’ve held multiple positions of responsibility throughout your college life. We would like to know your opinion on how significant they were. Please tell us about your experience and how you managed time effectively?

    For me, the significance of these responsibilities cannot be overstated. To a large extent, my extra-curricular pursuits defined my university experience. I genuinely enjoyed getting involved with as many things as possible. Leadership opportunities are an excellent way for one to not just improve the lives of others around them but also, more importantly, oneself as a community member.

    I had exposure to a variety of leadership roles, most notable ones being the Student Chief Counsel (President of the student body), Convenor of the Academic Support and Literary Committee and the Co-President of the University’s first literary-cultural festival. These experiences taught me invaluable lessons in handling various situations and people, something I would have never otherwise learnt to quite the same extent.

    Time management is always an issue but then again university life is all about time management. I believe if you are passionate about something, you make the time for it. It is important to be realistic though; you can only do so much. These activities taught me the skill of time management, something that (as we all know) comes in handy when one starts working.

     

    How important do you think extra-curricular activities are to a law student? Please tell us about the way you approached extra-curricular activities in college.

    It is very important for one to pursue his/her interests throughout university life and, as much as possible, afterwards. It is our extra-curricular endeavours which add personality to our mundane profiles. Even on a practical level, who would you rather work with – Candidate A, who has a GPA of 9.5/10, has written several papers on constitutional law and did an internship with the largest firm in India; or Candidate B, who has a GPA of 8.5/10 but was a member of the environmental club, played the guitar, participated in moot courts and represented his university at a theatre festival? I appreciate that there may be people who pick Candidate A, but I personally would rather work with Candidate B.

    I always advise against the exercise of ‘CV Building’ and advocate ‘Personality Building’. It is much more important to do what you want than what you think others would like to see in your CV. Don’t aim to be the person whom all seniors at big law firms would want to hire, be the person with whom all juniors at a firm (big or small) would want to work.

    I did what interested me but never for my CV. Not focussing on the things that were not right for me gave me the time to focus on the right ones. There were times when balancing was tough but because I was truly passionate about what I was doing, it was easy to pull through.

     

    How relevant do you think internships are for law students? Did you have any such experience during your internships which inspired you to pursue a career in corporate law?

    Internships are quite important to get a sense of what work is like and discover one’s interests. Internships also serve the function of putting you on the firm’s radar. Sensibly planned internships can no doubt help in recruitment. I would, however, advise against relying solely or too much on an internship to determine a firm’s environment or the kind of work you would be doing.

    I started interning with law firms mostly after I had decided to pursue Business Law as my Honours. I wanted to see the kind of work and options available. My internship experiences validated my choice (of Business Law) to some extent and gave me an opportunity to understand what I was getting myself into.

    There is an increasing practice nowadays of doing premature internships or too many internships. I can’t say whether it is right or wrong, but I feel that students need to take a step back and evaluate what they want. Interning with a corporate law firm in your first or second year may not be as beneficial as you want it to be and you lose out on an opportunity to explore different career options.

     

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    You’ve interned in quite a few top-tier law firms. How did you plan your internships?

    My intention was to experience as many different setups as possible to help me decide what I ultimately wanted to do. I adopted a tiered approach. I started with firms where the teams were smaller and the work was more generic. With time, I started applying for the larger firms where I was exposed to niche areas and ‘top-tier’ work environments. This gradual increase in the scale of firms helped me get a clearer picture across the spectrum by the time I graduated.

     

    We would love to hear about your work profile. Please tell us about the responsibilities you are entrusted with. What made you choose this particular avenue?

    During my Training Contract with Allen & Overy, I did six-month seats in international capital markets, banking and finance, and corporate. I found corporate work to be the most interesting and diverse and decided to qualify (a term used in UK firms for when you join a department permanently after your TC) to the corporate team in Dubai.

    I specialise in Mergers and Acquisitions. I do a lot of private M&A, some public M&A (equity capital markets), venture capital and private equity work; these are all related. The good thing about corporate is that no two deals are identical and the work can be quite varied, that keeps the monotony at bay! On a typical deal, I find myself negotiating and drafting transaction documents (like share purchase agreements and shareholders’ agreements) and handling transaction logistics. A not-so-fun task, though a very important one, for a junior is conducting (the much dreaded) due diligence.

     

    How did you develop your interest and knowledge base in corporate law?

    I have answered about my interest above. As for knowledge, even though India and UK have largely similar legal systems, there were a few English-law specific points of corporate law that I picked-up as I went along. For any transactional lawyer, the main learning starts only once you start working. It is not possible for anyone to read through and retain the entire Companies Law. But it’s surprising how much you pick-up in small batches by working on deals and transaction documents.

     

    What is an average working day like for you? Please tell us about the same.

    As everyone knows, in a law firm, the actual working hours are quite different from the official hours. What I do depends on the deal flow at the time. I wouldn’t want to bore people with details of corporate work but in short, there are good days and not so good days (let’s avoid the negativity of ‘bad’). I would say a good day is when you do more drafting and less administrative tasks (and no DD!). An OK day is a mixture of drafting and administrative tasks like managing signing or completion processes. A not so good day is when you are ploughing through reams of DD documents or are being pulled in several directions at the same time. The last set is not a daily affair but one needs to be prepared for it.

     

    What were the biggest hurdles and challenges in the early days of your career? How did you deal with them?

    The biggest hurdle I faced was the sudden realisation that working in a law firm required me to know and do things which a law degree may not have necessarily prepared me for. The academic study of law can be quite far removed from its practice, especially if you are working as a transactional lawyer. Your job requires you to have as much commercial aptitude, if not more, as legal knowledge. It took me a while to become reasonably confident about my work and grasp how a deal runs; it is a constant learning process.

    On a less obvious note, I started my career in London so another hurdle was minor cultural practices which percolate into our professional mannerisms. In my experience, we tend to swing in extremes; we are either quite formal (and deferential) or can come across as being slightly overconfident. I noticed I used to err on the side of the former. Finding the right balance is important.

     

    Tell us a little about your experience as a Vacation Placement Student at Allen & Overy and Herbert Smith Freehills. How did you secure this opportunity?

    International firms have very formal and transparent application procedures. You do not need to grapple around for internship opportunities. I applied to both HSF and A&O through their online annual vacation scheme applications and was fortunate enough to make it. There was an initial screening followed by interviews and case studies for both these firms. For people interested in foreign firms, I would strongly recommend keeping a timetable of when the applications are due – ideally in your third year so that you can apply in your fourth.

    Both the experiences were fantastic. I was instantly sold on the work environment and culture at both the firms. The experiences were similar in many ways but different in others. The similarity was evident in terms of warm personalities, professional environments and a clear respect for work-life balance. The differences were more subtle due to the difference in the scale of the two firms (magic-circle versus silver-circle). I was also quite impressed to see the emphasis placed on soft skills and giving the right training. I decided that I wanted such training for the formative stages of my career.

     

    While working as Legal Advisor at Allen & Overy, you underwent a six month secondment to Dubai. A lot of our readers would like to know how the process of secondment works. Please share a few words about your experience.

    A ‘secondment’ is like a temporary six-month stint you do in another office or with a client. It is common practice at UK firms to apply for a secondment in your last seat. I was extremely keen to try out Dubai as a market.

    The experience was wonderful (as you can probably deduce from the fact that I am still here). The office is much smaller so everyone knew everyone, the corporate team was much more closely-knit, there was more scope for direct responsibility at a junior level and, above all, it was not raining/freezing/gloomy 365 days a year. What also helped was the fact that A&O has one of the best M&A practices in the region so the work was diverse and (more often than not) interesting.

     

    What do you think are the essential soft skills that a law student aspiring to make a career in corporate law should possess?

    Corporate law or otherwise, what comes in handy the most is a confident demeanour. How you present yourself has a significant impact on how people perceive you and your work. This extends to the way you talk (presenting your thoughts in an articulate and coherent manner), the way you deal with people and the way you handle stressful situations. In my experience, people would rather give work to someone who, even if not outstanding, is confident and can stay calm when faced with the unforeseen than someone who is brilliant but may drop the ball or lose his/her composure. If I may add, people often mistake confidence for the ability to convince everyone even when you are unsure of yourself. That’s great but it will only take you so far. What is more important is having the confidence to own up to your limitations; this inspires others’ trust in you and ensures success in the longer run.

    In terms of career-specific soft skills, transactional lawyers should always strive to develop matter-management skills. Deals can get stressful and at such times, people who manage to stay organised do better. So if anyone makes fun of you for being too organised (like colour-coding your notes, etc.), don’t worry, you will do well in corporate law!

     

    What does the process of recruitment and interviewing include? Does it differ, depending on the position that the candidate has applied for, or the country which the office is situated in?

    I was selected through the vacation placement route. After an initial screening of applicants, they called a few of us for interview. The interview (in my time) was split into two components, an HR interview and a case study. During the vacation scheme, I went through a similar process in London where I was assessed on my time there and was also asked to undertake a case study/research task and had a final partner interview.

    While I am not in a position to comment on the official policy, I think the process may differ slightly depending on which office you are applying to and the position applied for. The above definitely won’t apply for lateral hires. While all offices have a fairly formal process, the head office (London) has a slightly different format because of the requirement of a Training Contract in the UK.

     

    Once hired, is there an induction or training period for the associates? If yes, what does it consist of?

    If hired in London after graduation, you have to complete a Training Contract for two years. The two year tenure is divided into four six-month seats wherein you get a chance to experience different departments and decide where you want to ‘qualify’. Towards the end of the Training Contract, depending on your interest area and that department’s inclination, you may be offered a position as an associate. Once you become an associate, there is no training or induction involved.

    Overseas qualified lawyers (such as from India) have to clear an exam called the Qualified Lawyers Transfer Scheme in order to be registered as a Solicitor in England and Wales.

     

    What does an average day in the life of an Associate at Allen & Overy look like? What does the work consist of? Does the firm encourage lawyers to maintain a work-life balance?

    I have already described a typical day for a corporate associate above. In terms of work-life balance, that is a tough question. Being very honest, you will find mixed opinions on this topic. In my experience, the firm is definitely quite open to and encourages employees to maintain a work-life balance, but it also depends on your team and department. There are of course busy times when everyone has to put in the hours (especially in a magic-circle firm). I will, however, say that most departments don’t have the culture of face time.

     

    As a concluding message, what would be your suggestions to law students?

    Make the most of university days; that is a precious period you will not get back. At the cost of repeating myself, I would advise against doing anything for the sake of building your CV. If you truly want to differentiate yourself from others, do what inspires and interests you, be it writing papers or dancing. Try to become a better version of yourself, and in the process I am sure you will end up becoming a better lawyer. It is easy to let your vision get jaded while at university; in the long run, things that you thought really matter actually may not.

    Lastly, don’t shy away from letting your hair down. You have a lifetime of hard work ahead of you anyway. And “always remember where you come from and where you want to go”..

  • Sannoy Das, Advocate, Calcutta High Court, on LL.M from Harvard and career experience in independent litigation

    Sannoy Das, Advocate, Calcutta High Court, on LL.M from Harvard and career experience in independent litigation

    Sannoy Das graduated from NLU Jodhpur in 2011 with a B.Sc.LL.B (Hons.) in Business Laws. His achievements during law school include winning the North India Rounds of the Phillip C. Jessup Memorial International Moot Court Competition in 2010. He was also a student volunteer at IDIA. After graduation, he was placed at Majumdar & Co., Mumbai, where he worked for a short period before switching to practising as an Advocate at Calcutta High Court. After three years of practice, he successfully applied to Harvard Law School, where he is currently a student. In this interview he talks about:

    • Mooting experience at Jessup
    • Shifting from a law firm job to litigation
    • Law school experience at Harvard Law School

     

    Please introduce yourself to our readers. How did you decide to take up law?

    At different times, I’ve called Mysore and Kolkata home; for a tiny bit, even Delhi. I started going to school in Mysore, and finished most of it in Kolkata, at M.P. Birla. As for law, it might have been accidental, but it’s been a while ago, so I’m a little foggy. A good friend of mine was preparing to take the exams (many back then), and I went along with her. If I hadn’t studied law, I’d have probably taken up political science.

     

    You graduated from NLU Jodhpur in 2011 with a B.Sc.LL.B(Hons) in Business Laws. How was your law school experience?

    It’s impossible to have a coherent strain of thought running through five years of law school. I’m sure I did a lot of things wrong, but I’m sure I left more happy than sad. I wish I had digested a few more books at the library, but one is always wiser in hindsight. Of course, as far as lessons in life go, five years at a residential law school are about as good as you will get. I also met my wife at law school. And they gave me the VC’s gold medal to go with it! So pretty good overall!

     

    You had Honours in Business Laws. Tell us about the Honours program at NLU-J. What other co- curricular and extra-curricular activities were you involved in, in law school?

    I think the Honours programs at NLU are pretty well designed. I think the idea of concentrations in different areas of law is a good one, and to say the least, the courses at NLU-J are well conceived. I could crib that at times, the courses weren’t well facilitated, but that seems to be a common complaint across our law schools. I think it’s also somewhat unfortunate that the overwhelming majority chose the business law concentration. I’m certainly guilty of having followed a crowd in that. Again, hindsight! I think for the Honours programs to make a good impact on a student, foundational courses have to be well-taught, and well imbibed. I think there’s a chance that at times, we slip on that count.

    As for other activities, I think I spent much more time on those than I’d consider prudent. Moot courts took up a lot of time. Even now, I don’t think I have had enough of them. I spent a few years on the moot court committee, finally as its joint convenor. I also took to debating (the parliamentary style) in college. Also, I played some badminton.

     

    You and your team won the North India Rounds of the Philip C. Jessup Memorial International Moot Court Competition in 2010. What are the important skills and knowledge one must possess in order to be a good mooter?

    Winning the North Rounds felt like a big deal. It was. We had to get over a very formidable NUJS team which had my good friend Deepak on it. We lost at the octa-final stage at the world rounds to Columbia. Till date, I’m sore about it. I think the months that I indulged in Jessup were the best months I spent at the University and I cannot stop gushing about it. Only recently, my team mate Manu Sanan said that Jessup now is a warm fuzzy memory. It really is; replete with an insane number of terribly lousy internal jokes. I only have good things to say about that experience. The team became great friends and still are. Not to forget our amazing coaches Giriraj and Yakshay.

    In mooting, as in everything, I suppose practice makes (somewhat) perfect. I had to go at it round over round. Of course, the love for research is very important. It’s more than just skill. Everyone on our team had a zealous drive to read one more article, one more book and one more case. As for speaking, I imagined I wasn’t too bad it, but it took many rounds of grilling to deliver some decent performances at the competition. I quite enjoyed picking up the best speaker awards at the India rounds. Even the world rank wasn’t too bad!

    Jessup continued to be a love affair thereafter. I’ve coached a few teams with varying degrees of success (but mostly disappointment). In my fifth, I enlisted as advisor to the NUJS team that year. They did a fantastic job at the international rounds.

     

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    What internships did you do as a law student? What were your reasons for doing each of them and how was your experience?

    I was quite conservative about picking internships. I wouldn’t advise that any longer. I suppose an internship each at AMSS and AZB improved the chances of landing a job at a law firm, but I no longer find that an attractive idea. I have very little to talk about those internships, although I did decent work during most of them. I think I got lucky getting assigned to good partners each time. If I had to give a word of advice about picking internships, I’d strongly recommend getting a variety of experiences, at different courts and different sorts of firms.

     

    Upon graduating, you started working at Majmudar & Co., Mumbai as an Associate. How did you secure your appointment? Please describe the interview and induction procedure for a fresher?

    I was recruited to Majmudar on the first day of our recruitment process. Majmudar, back then, had the best recruitment procedure, which involved a three stage gruelling process – quite like big firms in other countries. The fact that their process was so thorough made me want to take the job. Also, the fact that it was a mid-sized firm meant that I was likely to shoulder more responsibility than a typical first year associate. That again, was an important factor in accepting their offer. I can’t say what it is to be inducted there now, it’s been a while since I left; but it’s certainly a good place to go if a fresher is willing to be at the business end of things in a short span of time. One tends to get baptized by fire there.

     

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    You worked at Majmudar & Co. for six months. What did your work and responsibilities consist of? What were your reasons for leaving within such a short span of time?

    I have no complaints about the work I got at Majmudar. I had plenty of it, and that kept me happy. And I had enough time to savour Mumbai; all the good food and drink (in generous measure). So, maintaining the balance certainly wasn’t my problem. I advised on some corporate issues but most of my work was concentrated around huge sets of cases that we were handling across courts in India, and at the Bombay High Court in particular. I really cherish the exposure I had to high end litigation work in the earliest days of my career.

    Why did I leave? I had some reasons to go back to Calcutta. Also, the litigation bug bit me pretty strong while at Majmudar. Being at the Bombay High Court gave me a push to the ‘other’ side. So I packed my bag and imagined making forceful arguments every day at the Calcutta High Court.

     

    After leaving, you started practicing in Calcutta as an Advocate. Did you work under a senior lawyer or start your own practice? What were your reasons for moving from a corporate setting to litigation?

    Calcutta maintains the traditional solicitor-barrister/counsel divide. I cast my lot on the side of counsels, joined the bar library club and attached myself to the chamber of Mr. Samit Talukdar, one of the most prominent senior advocates of the court. In about three months, I had a few briefs trickling in. Then I had quite a few. As I said, the sheer attraction of arguing from the bar had drawn me to litigation. I lived some bit of it in the three years at the High Court. I had moved from wearing a tie to wearing a gown, but I was essentially practising a lot of company and commercial law. Even so, the sort of research that goes into preparing to write a brief or argue a case was infinitely more challenging than anything I had done before. It was like doing Jessup every day, at high speed. It was thrilling to be in the midst of volumes of case reports, treatises and piles of petitions. Very soon, my room at home, which I doubled up as an office, looked like a godown. Doing good litigation delivers great satisfaction, but mostly it’s a humbling experience, as I realized every day how much more there was to learn. I worked on a few matters with the top counsels of the court (and indeed of the country), and the challenge of being a worthwhile junior on a matter was quite great. I think I didn’t do too badly. Every once in a while, I heard a word of appreciation that made me dizzy with delight.

     

    After three years of practice, you decided to study further. What were your reasons for doing so, especially when the general notion is that for a career in litigation one requires practical experience more than an LL.M?

    It’s a somewhat correct notion that an LL.M. isn’t the best idea right in the middle of growing practice. I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t advised against it, and that came from quarters whose wisdom I have no reason to doubt. My seniors at the bar quite correctly advised me to be circumspect about making the decision. And I was. I don’t think I really made up my mind till pretty late. If I am to be really pragmatic, I doubt this LL.M. can have anything to do with setting up a better practice; at least not in Calcutta. If anything, having lost a year at a time when my practice was picking up, means having lost momentum. Fortunately, I did not make the decision of doing this LL.M. pragmatically. I did it because I simply felt some sort of an intellectual thirst, if you will. Not to suggest that working on cases can’t quench it, but I was craving to be theoretical, and was interested in taking liberties that I couldn’t have done while remaining committed to a client!

     

    Please tell us about your decision to pursue an LL.M at Harvard Law School. Please share some advice on acing the application requirements and procedure for Harvard.

    I’ve always gushed at the name Harvard. I’ve been here a while, and I still do. Not because it’s a reasonable thing to do, but I don’t espouse being reasonable all the time. As I said, I hadn’t decided about actually taking the year off to study when I applied. But when the admission letter came along, I think it was quite hard to look away. It also coincided happily with my wife’s career plans, and she was quite sure about taking her place up at the Chicago Law School. I think I’ve made a few decisions that don’t sit well with rationality. I wouldn’t advise following suit, as a matter of reasonableness. But I would advise it as a matter of principle, because I think it’s quite silly for us to be tied to decisions that we make when we’re all quite young. Not marriage of course. That one is forever!

    Applying to an LL.M., whether at HLS or elsewhere, requires some amount of dedication in crafting the materials. The key is just to start early in the admission cycle – get the referees to send in their letters and the universities in India to send in the transcripts etc. After that, it’s about writing a solid essay. I think the essay requires some good imagination more than anything else. I wrote my application on issues of private international law, because at that time I was quite committed to thinking about rules that govern conflict between jurisdictions. I think the essay requires the demonstration of both a clear understanding of a particular legal issue and a reasonable framework for thinking about solutions.

     

    It’s a dream for many law students to get through to Harvard Law School. What would be one thing they should necessarily do as a law student?

    They should necessarily study hard. It’s sine qua non to be reasonably well grounded in the laws of the jurisdiction one hails from. I can’t imagine what the factors are, that determine the selection process; I’m just lucky to be here. But if I were to hazard a guess, I think the admissions people at the top law schools are able to discover if the candidate has some real intellectual thirst.

     

    What were the subjects you were specialising in at Harvard? How has your experience been? Did you indulge in extra-curricular and co-curricular activities there?

    I came in imagining that I’d study a set of subjects that are useful in cross-border litigation. Instead, I’ve spent the year studying international and comparative law, international trade and legal theory. The LL.M. dissertation is focussed on an issue in international trade law (which for selfish reasons, I shall keep to myself). For the most part, I’ve been excited taking classes at HLS. I think the distinguishing feature of the experience for me has been the compulsion that I have felt to think critically, not only about existing regulation, but also about the existing normative views.

    HLS is abuzz with opportunities outside the classroom framework, and I’ve delighted myself attending a host of talks, conferences and symposia. Unfortunately, an LL.M. lasts only a year, and one can’t have everything. I’d have liked to do a lot of things in this one year – be a research assistant, work at the library, join a journal. I’ve managed none of that. Except Jessup. I enlisted as a coach to the team from HLS. Unfortunately, we didn’t make it past the semi-finals at the Northeast Regionals. Till now, one of the highlights of the HLS year has been a fellowship with the Salzburg Cutler Program, which is an awesome conference on all things about international law. It was my first taste of what it is like to defend a paper at a really serious academic workshop.

     

    Tell us about the faculty and facilities at Harvard. Please share with us a memorable incident from Harvard.

    One can’t have enough of being in awe of the faculty at Harvard. Everyone I’ve encountered is brilliant. I have special regard for my supervisor, Professor Mark Wu. But generally, it’s an environment where the intellectual stimulation is beyond anything I’ve experienced before.

    Watching six feet of snow accumulate over a week is pretty memorable. Otherwise, having studied under (the quite legendary) Duncan Kennedy, now in his year before retirement, is something worth writing in a diary.

     

    Going forward, how do you see your LL.M qualification would add to your career? Do you think of working abroad ever? Will you return to litigation?

    This is a question I’m not fully equipped to answer. I can make absolutely no prediction of how my career will be affected by this LL.M. I’m certainly not looking to work in a law-firm here. I can’t say further about litigation because I’m yet to sit down and make some hard choices. I am hoping to do some international trade related work.

     

    Please share with us your experience in litigation. What is one thing that gives premier law school students an edge over others in litigation?

    I’ve already spoken as to what my experience was as a counsel at the High Court. I enjoyed the work that I did at the High Court, and the challenges that came with doing that work. I think the second bit of this question is ill-conceived. I eschew the premier law school tag, and I think it’s an undeserving badge. Many of my contemporaries at the Calcutta High Court didn’t attend these so called ‘premier’ institutions, but were more competent than I could pretend to be. I suppose rigorous academic training makes a difference, but that’s certainly more up to the student than the institution. If on a general review, we could say that some law schools train students better than some others, then there’d be some advantage starting off; but, it gets quickly eroded in practice. I don’t think law schools train students to be practitioners, and I don’t think it’s their job to so. I think the real advantage rests with those who can learn the law as it gets applied in courts, quickly, along with court-craft and litigation strategy.

     

    Does the Calcutta High Court environment get stressful? What would be your suggestion to a fresher who is graduating this year and would join Calcutta High Court?

    I don’t know of any workplace where the environment causes absolutely no stress. Sure, there’s a fight for space and recognition, but it isn’t a place that a reasonably robust individual cannot survive. I was certainly privileged in the sense that I got to join a really good chamber and my senior was invested in my career. Also, I had plenty of financial muscle from my family to hold me up. Therefore, I don’t think my experience can be representative of the struggle that some others might have to go through, and I don’t intend to paint a picture that is rosier than reality. Having offered that as a caveat, I do think that the High Court is a good place to start (and continue) a great career in litigation. Of course, the court isn’t as active in the commercial space as the courts in Delhi and Mumbai, but there’s still enough work to be done. I think it’s important to have spent some time at the court before making the decision, and a graduating student would at least need to know who the best (and the most indulgent) seniors are.

     

    How much politics would you say is involved on the Calcutta High Court premises? How do you say one can possibly keep oneself away from this?

    If you are talking about factions in the profession, then my answer would be – yes, there are some and people get invariably implicated. Also, depending on the affiliation that a lawyer has (bar association/bar library club/incorporated law society), a degree of factionalism is almost impossible to avoid. I suppose a generally conscientious person can manage the fine line between good association and vile politicking. Also, I think the affiliations make for good cricket tournaments and the like!

    If you are talking of a political atmosphere, then I think it’s only fair that legal professionals have political views and are engaged in lawyering to achieve political ends. I think lawyering is a way of expressing ourselves as political beings and I certainly wouldn’t be shy in doing that.

     

    Who are your mentors and/or guides you look forward to for advice?

    I feel quite blessed because of the number of people who have advised me well during various stages from law school to the profession. I often turn to Justice N.N. Mathur, our former Vice Chancellor whenever I need to talk about career ideas, as also some of the senior advocates I worked with – my chamber senior Mr. Talukdar, Mr. S.N. Mookerji and Mr. Jishnu Saha. And my professors here at HLS – particularly, Mark Wu. However, I think the list is much longer and I must repeat myself in saying that I am indebted to more than a few people for having been mentors and guides.

     

    Lastly, what advice would you like to give our readers?

    I’m not going to pretend to have seen enough to dole out any meaningful advice. But to law students, I’d stress on the importance of being grounded in studying law at law school, and then making career decisions after seeing a wide spectrum of possibilities. I think there is considerable pressure exerted in law school to pick certain career paths, and while those are often excellent choices, they don’t work out so well for everyone.

     

  • Subhash Bhutoria, Senior Associate, Lall & Sethi on work experience in IPR matters

    Subhash Bhutoria, Senior Associate, Lall & Sethi on work experience in IPR matters

    Subhash Bhutoria graduated from National Law University, Jodhpur in 2009. He started his legal career with Lall and Sethi as an Associate. Later he switced to IPR Litigation and Enforcement team of Lakshmi Kumaran & Sridharan Attorneys where he worked as a Senior Associate. After three and half years of work at LKS, he got an offer from Lall and Sethi to rejoin as a Senior Associate which he could not refuse. Currently, he works as a Senior Associate in the litigation team of Lall and Sethi.

    We asked him to share his experiences and strategies he used over the years. In this interview, he talks about:

    • Law school experience at NLUJ
    • Work experience at LKS and Lall & Sethi
    • How to prepare for an interview with an IPR Law firm

     

    How would you introduce yourself? Could you please share a little bit of what motivated you to pursue law as a career?

    I am a practicing lawyer, specializing in IPR laws related to litigation and advising. Law was not the first choice as I was preparing for medicals, but the gradual understanding of the subject and experience at NLU, motivated me to pursue this field.

     

    How would you describe your time at National Law University, Jodhpur? Did you take part in extracurricular activities?

    I owe immensely to NLU, Jodhpur for turning a novice into the lawyer I am today. The elaborate course was well designed and made the legal learning quite an experience. The overwhelming assignments, projects along with compulsory internships, skilled me with able research abilities, which I honestly believe, gave me an edge in the profession. To work under pressure, stick to basics and being involved in every good, bad or ugly task, were the key learning for me at NLU.

    Extra and Co-Curricular activities were integral part of the NLU experience and indeed I was part of  quite a few of them. I was also a part of the cultural committee and could get a better view of what goes behind in organizing and managing such activities at University level. Among other things, we also formed a music group called Alfaaz during law school.

    In addition to adding ‘Hues’ to largely an academically oriented university and student mass, these activities are instrumental in interpersonal interactions and team building. Personally, these activities helped me boost my confidence and maintain calm in adversity, which is of immense help to me as a legal practitioner. In my view, these activities are vital for a comprehensive learning and hence be encouraged both by the universities and the students.

     

    How was your first year after graduation? Do law schools in India prepare their students for their professional life? What would you suggest to a fresh law graduate?

    Since campus placements did not do any wonders, I was interning with Lall and Sethi Advocates and was retained by the firm thereafter. It took a while to understand the KRAs as an associate, but having being well trained by NLU, I had no apprehension, whatsoever and hence I could learn more and earn well. Honestly, one cannot foresee the outcome and hence every task is an opportunity. It is always to be borne in mind that nothing goes unnoticeable, which is my advice to the fresh law grads.

     

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    Right after graduation, you started working with Lall and Sethi as an Associate. How did you appointment take place? How would you describe you working experience there?

    Having no job in hand at the brink of the last semester, I was also running helter skelter and was offered a job at an LPO in Pune. In the meantime, my internship with L&S was confirmed and took the risk of letting go the offer at hand for the internship. I was extensively working with the IP enforcement team and it was yet another task and my contribution to the same, which came to the senior’s notice and I was offered an appointment.

    I started with the trademark prosecution team and learned the basics and intricacies of filing and procedure. I later shifted to the litigation and enforcement team and had probably the best time on field, assisting and coordinating with my able colleagues. Having said so, I believe L&S offered me what could not have been expected from any top-tier firm at that instance.

     

    How difficult were the first few months of Lall and Sethi given that it focuses mainly on a specific field of law?

    With an honours in IPR laws, understanding the laws was not at all difficult and working with learned seniors at L&S, I could understand the practice and procedures well. In particular, the volume of work and clientele, considerably improved my drafting and response time.

     

    You have specialized in IPR. What made you interested in the same?

    My inclination was always towards sciences and could relate the same more with IPR laws. The fascination with IPR grew further while dealing with well known brands and works at L&S.

     

    Thereafter you joined IPR Litigation and Enforcement team of Lakshmi Kumaran & Sridharan Attorneys as a Senior Associate. What had contributed towards this appointment? How did that go?

    LKS was a quick decision to explore new possibilities and work. I got to work primarily on both criminal and civil copyright litigation, involving extensive traveling and appearance in various courts and tribunals across India. Undoubtedly, it was a wonderful time working with LKS.

     

    Have you ever considered litigation or starting up on your own? Would you say the opportunity a firm provides for a young lawyer is worth the trade off in building a reputation?

    I have not considered establishing my own practice as my work profile and association with L&S offers me the same satisfaction. I beg to differ with the trade off comment as a budding lawyer, one should always consider value addition than reputation. In my opinion, smaller firms provide with immense opportunities and in turn you get recognized in the organization and otherwise.

     

    You rejoined Lall and Sethi as a Senior Associate. How did this opportunity come back to you?

    Let’s just say, I was made an offer to rejoin L&S, which I could not refuse.

     

    What is a normal workday like at Lall and Sethi? Being a Senior Associate, what are your responsibilities?

    Litigation team does not have the comfort of workday and times. For me it starts at about 9ish in the morning and depending upon the work, varies from 11-13 hours each day. I, along with my able colleagues, are responsible for taking care of courts, counterfeit actions and related advisory works.

     

    How did you build up your command in IPR? What are the primary essentials of an IPR lawyer? How do you say a fresh graduate can work on building these skills?

    As I always suggest to interns and junior colleagues, reading is the key to excel in any law, let alone IPR. Since IPR laws are largely uniform across the world and Indian jurisprudence has not developed much as yet, the Indian Courts not only refer to, but also rely upon the international precedents. I would advise fresh grads to keep themselves informed and updated about such developments.

     

    What is the procedure to apply for an internship and recruitment at Lall and Sethi? What are the qualities which they look for in one and his/her CV?

    Students can apply for internship or recruitment through email at hr@indiaip.com. Job is subjective and largely depends upon the requirement at the firm. Although many associates are hired and offered job on the basis of their internships, including me, it is not the primary criteria for hiring at L&S. In addition to being adequately qualified, it is always an advantage if the candidate has prior experience in IPR laws and law firms. Being a paper-less office, good knowledge of computers and operating system is a must.

     

    What would you suggest to someone who is preparing to work with an IPR law firm? What are the basic subjects (apart from IPR subjects) which one should read and have understanding of before sitting for an interview?

    One must be well acquainted with consumer and contract laws, civil and criminal procedures. IPR practice substantially involves application of doctrines and tests laid down by both Indian and international Courts and hence the candidate must be aware of established precedents and doctrines.

     

    Please give our readers a few tips in order to land a job in IPR firm.

    IPR firms offer great opportunities and a rewarding career. Interestingly, IPR practice is not limited to consideration of case specific facts and interpretation of the law, but also entails extensive search and research for historical facts and information, scientific discoveries, international and trans-border data and precedents etc. Therefore, the candidates must have an across the board outlook.

     

    What would be your parting message to our readers?

    Law is a highly rewarding field and all it requires is good understanding of the subject and respect for the due process, that is what a super lawyer is.

  • Savni Dutt, Associate at Saikrishna, on copyright, patents and authoring a book

    Savni Dutt, Associate at Saikrishna, on copyright, patents and authoring a book

    Savni Dutt graduated from NLUJ in 2013. She has represented her college at prestigious moot court competitions like the ICLN ICC Trial Moot Court Competition where her team went for the International Rounds. Apart from being a part of the Editorial team during her internship with the Centre for Legislative Research and Advocacy, she has also published her book, ‘Freedom to Publish’. With her specialization and interest in Intellectual Property Law, she joined the litigation team at Saikrishna & Associates and is now working there as an Associate.

    In this interview we asked her about:

    • Graduating from NLUJ and working at Saikrishna & Associates
    • Importance of Internships, maintaining grades and experience at mooting
    • Approach to Academic Writing and publishing a book

     

    How would you introduce yourself? Could you please share a little bit of what motivated you to pursue law as a career?

    Throughout my time at school in Gurgaon, I was mostly involved in academics. Other than that, my interests were dance and theatre, and they continue to be. I studied law at National Law University, Jodhpur and now work as an Associate in the litigation team at Saikrishna & Associates. My interest in the study of law stemmed from the many stories I had heard of my late grandfather who was a practicing lawyer in Delhi. However, I was always inclined towards a career in research or policy and studying law seemed to be the most appropriate step towards achieving that. So while I knew I wanted to study law, the decision to actually practice law as a career only came about incidentally.

     

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    Tell us a bit about your days at National Law University, Jodhpur?

    NLU, Jodhpur is a fully residential university that allows its students to make it their own. It gives its students a lot of time and flexibility. There is an active and competitive mooting culture at NLU Jodhpur. Most students seem to gravitate towards it but there’s enough time for other things like writing and sports to name a few, if one is interested. I chose to spend my time in helping organize our college fests as also other intra-university events.

     

    How were you internship experiences?

    Internships play a huge role in helping a law student find his/her area of interest and are the best source of learning. The kind of hands-on experience that a good internship can provide is unbeatable. Therefore, it is very important to choose the right kind of place for an internship to suit your interest and then to give it your best. As a student looking to learn at the job, I tried to do as many different kinds of internships as I could. My main goal was to use the period of 5 years to experience as many different kinds of legal work as I could to be able to make an informed decision about what I wanted to do once I graduated. I interned with an NGO, a research organization, with a trial court lawyer at the Tiz Hazari district court in Delhi, as also some corporate law firms. I also briefly interned with the in-house legal team of an international company. But it was the brief encounter I had with litigation during my internship at Saikrishna & Associates, which gave me the opportunity to assist on some very interesting cases, and helped me finally choose litigation over other options.

     

    You’ve represented your university at prestigious moot court competitions in India and abroad. How significant do you think mooting is for law students?

    I think mooting is something that all students must participate in at least once during their law course. While mooting might not be a reflection of what courts are really like, the lessons that one learns from the process and approach followed in moot courts are helpful even professionally. To me the most important things about mooting are working as a team and working within the limitations of time, pages, format, etc., that can truly be very stressful. Moot Court Competitions are a great way for students to push themselves into thinking out of the box. These are the important skills that according to me have been the handiest while drafting pleadings for court, often on short deadlines and appearing before an actual Court.

     

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    At the 2012 ICLN ICC Trial Competition your team was one of the two that qualified from India. What was the experience like?

    The 2012 ICLN ICC Trial Competition was a surreal experience from the time our entry, for the qualification round, was scored the highest amongst the Indian entries. The format of the competition is very different from other moots and it was nerve-wracking because each speaker was responsible individually for each round. The subject matter of the moot is international criminal law, which was a big challenge for us because we had to start our reading and research on the subject from scratch. As part of our preparation we had completed a certain amount of reading even before the topic for our written assignment was sent to us. After our qualification to the international rounds and the submission of the memorials, it was a series of oral practices that continued for around two months to perfect the structure of our speech, timing and modulation.

     

    Please tell us about your book- ‘Freedom to Publish’. How would you recommend that law students approach academic writing?

    ‘Freedom to Publish’ is a primer aimed at an audience of authors, publishers, students and professionals to empower them with basic knowledge of possible legal issues that one must be wary of when publishing something. The book has been published by ‘Manas Saikia Foundation’ and is distributed free of cost in public interest. Mr. Saikia had the idea for the book in the wake of the growing number of instances where books and publications were being abandoned or withdrawn because of potential legal actions. The book has been kept short and simple to increase its accessibility and utility to someone who isn’t a lawyer.

    An academic piece should appeal to a wide audience. Thus, it is imperative for an author, to put ideas and research in a coherent and streamlined manner. There is also an additional responsibility to check, recheck and be absolutely sure of what is being published. These are important skills for any lawyer, and with each academic piece, one perfects them. Law students, interested in academic writing, should ensure that their publication is focused on a specific issue instead of it being on a broad subject. It is also important that the publication proposes a solution or an alternative or a concrete conclusion to explain, to the reader, the purpose that has been achieved by it.

     

    You’ve been a member of an editorial team as well. Please tell us about the experience. What are the things you get to learn from such an experience?

    I got an opportunity to work with the editorial team on the Policy Booklet for Parliamentarians on Millennium Development Goals and Gender Budgeting in India, during my internship with the Centre for Legislative Research and Advocacy. It was an interesting experience though short lived, as it was limited to the duration of my internship. Nevertheless it was an enriching experience that taught me the importance of compartmentalization of work while working as a team. It also taught me how I can filter my writing and appropriately convey my ideas by making them crisp and easy for the reader. This proved very helpful in the process of writing the book.

     

    We would love to hear about your work profile. What made you choose this particular avenue?

    After studying a course on IP, I realized that there was no other subject that came as naturally to me as this one. I also believe that our professor of IP, at the time, Mr. Yogesh Pai had a role in making the subject that much more interesting. Eventually, to test my interest I chose to intern at Krishna & Saurashtri in Bombay but I was convinced only after gaining some litigation experience at my two internships with Saikrishna & Associates in Delhi.

    I work with the litigation team so my work primarily involves cases dealing with issues of copyright, patents, trademarks along with some cases relating to media law, personality rights and tort law in the form of unfair competition and commercial misappropriation. Additionally, I’ve been lucky to be involved in the series of ongoing litigation concerning the possible overlap between the competition law and patent regime. An ordinary day at work is a balanced mix of court action, drafting, researching and brainstorming with other associates.

     

    What were the biggest hurdles and challenges in the first few months? How did you deal with them?

    The first six to eight months of my career were exciting, intimidating and annoying all at the same time. They were exciting because I was finally doing what I had been waiting to do from December 2012 to August 2013. It was intimidating because my actions now had consequences. One of the biggest challenges for me in the first six months of my career was coming to terms with the responsibilities that come with being a professional. Finally, I use the term annoying because for the first few months it felt like I knew nothing, which made it harder to focus. While I am still trying to figure out how to deal with being both happy and angry about work at the same time, there is one thing that I have learnt. I have learnt that things will get done.

     

    What, according to you, are the skills required of an advocate aspiring to build a successful career in intellectual property law?

    Every time I have been in doubt, I have been told that to be able to do build a successful career in law, one need not be a genius. Average intelligence with hard work is all one needs to become a successful lawyer.  Whatever be the field of law, there is no substitute for hard work. For those interested in IP as a potential area of practice, I would suggest extensive reading on the subject. IP is vast, it is growing and most of it is still unclear, so there is a lot of room for different views. If there is a topic that interests you, read about it as much as you can but importantly write about it too. I also feel that we focus a lot on the concepts in IP and forget the procedure. One must pay equal attention to the filing and procedure for grant or registration of an intellectual property.

     

    How important do you think that extra-curricular activities are to a law student?

    Any extra-curricular or co-curricular activity is extremely important for a law student simply because it adds value to one’s time and experience as a student at the same time developing some skill or characteristic. It is also a great way to begin networking, which is extremely important for any lawyer/law student. Through law school, it was my attempt to choose a different activity every semester. So if I chose to participate in a moot one semester, the next semester was dedicated to a sports fest or a parliamentary debate. This way I was able to give importance to academics, participate in events and have some spare time at college.

     

    As a concluding message, what would be your suggestions to law students?

    Law students must remember that it is very important to maintain a good grade and to participate and to intern but it is equally important to enjoy law school. I borrow here the unconventional yet inspiring closing words by Judge Kozinski from Mattel v. MCA Records, Inc.,

    “The parties are advised to chill.”