This interview has been published by Ayush Verma.

HOW WOULD YOU LIKE TO INTRODUCE YOURSELF TO OUR READERS?

I am an advocate practising in the Supreme Court as an Advocate-on-Record. I graduated from W.B. National University of Juridical Sciences, Kolkata in 2007. 

WHAT IS THE MOST NOTEWORTHY CHANGE YOU HAVE WITNESSED IN THE LEGAL PROFESSION SINCE YOU JOINED IT COMPARED TO NOW?

I enrolled at the Bar in the year 2007 soon after graduating from law school. I was also retained by a premier law firm for a few years before commencing my independent practice. Hence, I wouldn’t say that the legal practice has witnessed a sea-change since I joined the profession. The standard of litigation, particularly at the Supreme Court, has always been known to be high and that remains to be the case even today. 

PLEASE SHARE THE KEY CHALLENGES FROM YOUR JOURNEY IN LITIGATION, FROM STARTING OUT AS AN INDEPENDENT LITIGATOR TO GOING ON TO BECOME AN ADVOCATE-ON-RECORD. 

I guess the toughest challenge for any law practitioner, whether in litigation or in corporate advisory, is to have a clientele and a good flow of work. A lawyer may be very erudite, but his knowledge in law wouldn’t help unless he actually has a decent law practice. This challenge – of having clients and ensuring that you render the best legal services to them – is most arduous when a lawyer starts his independent practice. While most corporates prefer to approach top-tier law firms (and justifiably so, for the quality of legal services by these firms), individual litigants would always want to rely on their existing lawyers, unless of course, they are dissatisfied with them. This was the same challenge that I faced when I started my independent practice. 

The only way to gain the trust of clients (whether corporations or individuals), and to get a steady flow of work, is to ensure that a lawyer gives his best in whatever little work comes his way. Indeed, hard work is the only thing that pays, as it is a lawyer’s dedication towards his case and his client’s interests that results in good legal practice. 

WHAT WAS YOUR INSPIRATION FOR VENTURING INTO WRITING? HAVE YOU WRITTEN ANY OTHER BOOKS BEFORE CONSENSUS AD IDEM?

I have always enjoyed writing since my law school days. As a law student, I had contributed articles in various law journals, including AIR, JIPR, Commonwealth Law Bulletin etc. While in practice, I authored a book on securities law (more precisely, on Unfair Trade Practices in Securities) which was published by Taxmann, 2013. I was also on the editorial board of Taxmann’s Commentary on Company Law, 2013.  

WHAT IS THE OBJECTIVE BEHIND WRITING CONSENSUS AD IDEM AND HOW WILL IT CHANGE THE COURSE OF PROCEEDINGS IN COMMERCIAL LAWS?

Most civil disputes, whether involving corporate transactions or otherwise, involve contractual breaches. In fact, contractual terms are the very basis on which most commercial disputes are litigated in courts. The existing commentaries and treatises on Contract Law, which are usually referred to by law practitioners, are intended to serve as lectures on the entire Indian Contract Act, without focusing exclusively on the concept of “consent” – perhaps the most fundamental concept underlying a legally enforceable contract. Moreover, while referring to the concepts of fraud and misrepresentation, we tend to have a general inclination towards criminal law, even though the ramifications of these concepts in civil law are equally diabolical. The instant book seeks to serve as an exhaustive commentary on these issues. The recent episode of Fortis in its litigation against Daiichi, one of the most heavily contested corporate battles of late, has raised the levels of curiosity on this subject. 

THE TITLE OF THE BOOK MENTIONS THE CONCEPT OF “CONSENT & FREE CONSENT IN CONTRACT LAW”. PLEASE TELL US ABOUT THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE TWO?

Strictly speaking, a “consent” which is not “free consent” renders a contract either voidable or void ab initio. While “consent” takes place when two or more persons agree on the same thing in the same sense, it cannot be said to be “free consent” if it is caused by coercion, undue influence, fraud, misrepresentation or mistake. Sections 13 to 22 of the Indian Contract Act, which deal with numerous facets of free consent and the exceptions thereto are, indeed, fundamental to the very notion of consensus-ad-idem. Moreover, each of the exceptions to free consent, including misrepresentation, undue influence and fraud are subject matters which have evolved over the years. These concepts form the pivot on which legal validity of any contract stands, and you would be surprised at the extent to which the law has developed on these issues. The book is just a humble attempt to decipher and comprehend them. 

PLEASE SHARE THE PROCESS OF WRITING THIS BOOK AND ANY IMPORTANT MILESTONES YOU WOULD LIKE TO RECOLLECT.

I had started on the project sometime in August 2019, and by the time the year ended, I had completed a substantial portion of the research work. The task which was left was the actual writing of the book! While managing professional work and this project simultaneously was indeed difficult, things became relatively easier when the Covid-19 lockdown came to be imposed in March 2020. I was personally in a containment zone and there was no question of me stepping out of the home. This turned out to be a blessing in disguise, as I could now focus completely on the book. Indeed, this book is dedicated, among others, to all healthcare and sanitation workers in the country. This book was written when I had the luxury of time, while they were risking their lives in the battle against COVID-19. 

HOW IS YOUR BOOK GOING TO  HELP LAW STUDENTS AND PROFESSIONALS INTERESTED IN COMMERCIAL LAWS?

The book is an academic work. Contract law is not just a subject in law school but remains fundamentally important for all legal professionals and in-house counsels alike. Commercial arbitrations have remained, and continue to remain, a mainstay in corporate disputes, which primarily involve interpretation of contracts. It is for this reason that I feel the book, despite its unintended flaws, would be of interest to legal professionals, law firms, universities, corporate houses and more importantly, government departments whose commercial contracts are often challenged in the courts of law.

PUBLISHING A BOOK ON YOUR AREA OF EXPERTISE IS A SIGNIFICANT ACHIEVEMENT FOR ANY PROFESSIONAL. WHAT OTHER PROFESSIONAL GOALS ARE YOU ASPIRING TO TICK OFF YOUR CHECKLIST IN THE COMING YEARS?

This is indeed a flattering question for me. I do feel humbled that my book was published by Thomson Reuters, a leading publishing house. Having said so, the law is a profession which requires perseverance and continued efforts. Hence, I feel a “checklist” is something that can never be maintained in practice. What can be maintained, however, is one’s love for the law. I aspire to do so. 

LITIGATION IS A GRUELING AND DEMANDING PROFESSION. WHAT ARE YOUR HOBBIES OR INTERESTS BEYOND THE PROFESSION AND HOW DO YOU MAKE THE TIME TO CULTIVATE THESE INTERESTS, SUCH AS WRITING?

As I indicated earlier, legal writing is indeed difficult while remaining committed to legal practice. Had it not been for the Covid lockdown, I doubt I would have been able to finish the project in the time that I actually did. Long working hours is a norm in the profession, and unless one remains disciplined on time management, it is practically impossible to undertake a writing project. 

Coming to my interests outside of the legal field, music, particularly, Hindustani Classical, has been my interest since childhood. Listening to old records of the Maestros is my favourite pastime. 

ANY PARTING MESSAGE FOR YOUNG LAWYERS WHO ARE ASPIRING FOR A CAREER IN COMMERCIAL LITIGATION? 

Young lawyers graduating from law schools should, firstly, remain grounded. The legal profession is demanding and requires lawyers to remain focused. Commercial laws, in particular, keep changing with times, and it is crucial that young lawyers continue to keep a tab on the latest case laws and statutory amendments. Regular reading of legal journals, or even daily visits to law-based websites, is the easiest way of doing so. This can be done while in law school itself, as it is a habit that remains with you throughout the profession.

This interview has been published by Ayush Verma.

HOW WOULD YOU LIKE TO INTRODUCE YOURSELF TO OUR READERS?

I am a simple person who loves his work and enjoys binge-watching TV shows and listening to music in my free time which, fortunately or unfortunately, I don’t get much of. In terms of my work, I am what one would call a commercial litigation lawyer and I have been primarily working in dispute resolution and arbitration for the past few years. I also specialise in litigation management and labour and employment law. While my career began with an in-house role at SREI Equipment Finance, I quickly moved to a law-firm thereafter upon realising that in order to be a good in-house counsel, it’s important to learn the basics which are best absorbed in a law-firm environment. 

KINDLY SHARE YOUR JOURNEY TOWARDS THE LEGAL SECTOR. WHAT INSPIRED YOU TO TAKE UP LAW? ARE YOU A FIRST-GENERATION LAWYER?

As a kid in school, I was never the most studious and was always unsure about what I wanted to do in life but I always knew that it wouldn’t be something that was related to science or maths. I had a keen interest in subjects like social studies, geography, and history and I always loved public speaking right from a very young age.When I was attending my 12th Standard board exams, I wasn’t sure about what I would be doing after the exams. My initial plan was to pursue a bachelor’s degree in commerce and eventually pursue a career in management. Around the same time, my paternal uncle, Prof. Dr. Rambhatla Venkata Rao, who was the Dean of the law college at Andhra University was appointed as the Vice-Chancellor of National Law School of India University (NLSIU) at Bangalore. I remember accompanying him to his swearing-in ceremony which was right after my board exams and we were taken on a tour of the campus. I was super impressed with the library and the overall vibe of the campus. All of a sudden, I knew what I wanted to do! 

Neither of my parents are lawyers, so yes, I’m a first-generation lawyer. I’ve been blessed to have uncles on either side of my family (maternal and paternal) who are in the field of law with one being an academician and the other being a seasoned litigator.

KINDLY SHARE YOUR MEMORIES OF CHRIST UNIVERSITY AND THE CONTRIBUTION IT HAS IN SHAPING YOUR CAREER AS A SUCCESSFUL LAWYER. WHAT KIND OF CO-CURRICULAR ACTIVITIES DID YOU PARTICIPATE IN DURING YOUR LAW SCHOOL DAYS?

Law school was indeed a life-changing experience for me. I was blessed to have the peers and the faculty that I had during my time at School of Law, Christ University. I always like to say that while I learnt the nitty-gritties of the profession through my internships and work experience, I learnt the nitty-gritties of life from law school. The faculty and my peers had an equal role in helping me shape a part of my personality which I carry till date. I was never the most avid mooter in college. I did participate in a few internal and external moots but my passion throughout law school was towards parliamentary debating. I also remember participating in a few client counselling competitions and MUNs. However, out of all the activities, PDs remained my favourite. I was active on the PD circuit even for a couple of years after graduating and it still remains an activity that is very close to my heart.

PLEASE TELL US MORE ABOUT YOUR EXPERIENCE AT SREI INFRASTRUCTURE FINANCE LTD. HOW DID YOU LAND YOUR FIRST JOB THERE? WHAT WAS THE NATURE OF WORK YOU DID? HOW WAS THE LAW SCHOOL LEARNING DIFFERENT FROM THE FIRST HAND PRACTICAL EXPOSURE YOU GOT THERE?

SREI Equipment Finance was my first job fresh out of college. It was a campus placement and although I was over the moon at the time knowing that I got selected for an in-house role straight out of law school, little did I know that I was nowhere close to being prepared for the role that I was getting into. Ideally, in-house counsels are expected to have basic knowledge of law and they are expected to liaison with external counsels and also advise internal stakeholders on various legal aspects. In order to effectively perform this role, it is important to have some amount of experience in the practical applications of law which are learnt better either through chamber practice or law-firm roles, be it litigation or otherwise.

As someone who has been in the profession for the better part of a decade now, I feel young lawyers should always start their careers either in litigation or in a law-firm because that is where you learn the basics and a lawyer who doesn’t know the practical applications of the basics can never make a good in-house counsel. This was the reality of my stint at SREI Equipment Finance. My team and my mentor at the company were great and they did their best to make me feel comfortable in my role but the truth is we learn our best lessons when we are outside of our comfort zone and despite getting good exposure in terms of the practical aspects of working in the legal team of an NBFC, I decided to move to a law firm to ensure that I learn my basics first. However, I always knew that at some point I would love to return to an in-house role.

While the law school curriculum is important, practical experience gained through internships and while working is crucial to an individual’s development especially in the formative years of one’s career. Having said that, I learnt a lot from the different roles that I found myself in within the first two years of my career and this varied experience helped me in figuring out my career path within the broad spectrum of the law.

YOU SPECIALISED IN MEDIA AND ENTERTAINMENT LAW AND THEN MOVED TO THE INFRASTRUCTURE FIELD, WHAT LED TO THIS SHIFT OF MIND (OR HEART)?

During my 5th year of law school, my batch had to choose an elective subject and I chose Media and Entertainment Laws as my specialization, frankly because it was being taught by the best faculty on our campus, Prof. Dr. C.S. Somu, who was also the then Head of Department. I did have an inclination towards Media and Entertainment laws but the fact that the course was being taught by Dr. Somu was what drew me towards the subject. I was never too keen on building a profession out of this subject as I never worked specifically on Media and Entertainment laws either in my internships or thus far in my career. I certainly enjoyed learning what I received from the specialization. Being in litigation now, advising a wide array of clients, I occasionally get opportunities to apply my knowledge of Media and Entertainment laws as well.

WE SEE THAT IN THE INITIAL YEARS OF YOUR PROFESSIONAL CAREER, YOU SWITCHED MULTIPLE JOBS; IN OUR TRADITIONAL SOCIETIES A LOT OF YOUNGSTERS FIND IT DIFFICULT TO TAKE A SIMILAR STEP. WHAT WOULD YOU LIKE TO TELL THEM? WERE THOSE DECISIONS FRUITFUL IN THE LONG RUN OR DO YOU HAVE ANY REGRETS?

I don’t have any regrets. In fact, I look at each job change as a learning experience. One of my early mentors told me that I should change as many jobs as I could in the first 2-3 years of my career so that I can find the role or field which I truly enjoy and which will be a good fit for me. We are all advised to find a job and stick with it, but my advice to youngsters would be to look for the right job so that you never need to find a job again. In my case, my multiple job changes were definitely fruitful as I have gained varied experience which is now proving rather useful in my career as a litigator.

YOU MOVED FROM AN IN-HOUSE ROLE, FOLLOWED BY A CORPORATE TRANSACTION ROLE, AND FINALLY INTO LITIGATION. WHAT LED TO SUCH DECISIONS? WOULD YOU SUGGEST A SIMILAR PATH TO THE NEW GENERATION OF LAWYERS?

Sometimes I look back at my own career graph and it brings a smile to my face when I think about where I had started and where I am now. I did start my career with an in-house role in Bangalore; thereafter I moved to the corporate team of a law firm in Hyderabad where I was in a transactional role. It was at this firm that I started working alongside the litigation partner as well and I got myself enrolled at the bar, little did I know that this was going to define my career path going forward. Post this role, I worked with another law firm in Bangalore but I was deputed by the firm to one of their client’s legal team for a period of one year. This company was one of India’s (and the world’s) largest automotive manufacturers. I picked up some wonderful in-house experience at this role and eventually after completing the one-year contract, I decided to practice independently for a while before ending up in a litigation role at King Stubb & Kasiva, Advocates and Attorneys.

KINDLY TELL US ABOUT KING STUBB AND KASIVA AND YOUR ROLE THERE.

King Stubb & Kasiva (‘KSK”) is a full-service law firm that had originally started with one office in Delhi but has quickly grown to 5 other cities in India – Bangalore, Mumbai, Chennai, Hyderabad and Kochi along with an international office in the city of Milan, Italy. I joined KSK back in 2018 in their Bangalore office as a part of their litigation team. In mid-2019, KSK decided to set up an office in Hyderabad. Looking at my previous experience in the city, our managing partner, Mr. Jidesh Kumar, felt that I would be a good fit to head the firm’s operations at Hyderabad. Hence, the responsibility of heading the KSK Hyderabad office came on my shoulders. I am responsible for overseeing the operations and managing the team at KSK, Hyderabad. I shall always remain grateful to Mr. Jidesh Kumar, our senior partner Mr. Rajesh Sivaswamy, and our Dispute Resolution partner, Mrs. Smita Paliwal, for having faith in me and guiding me through what I believe has been the most challenging role of my career so far.

AS ONE OF THE YOUNGEST PARTNERS OF A FULL-SERVICE LAW FIRM, WHAT WERE THE CHALLENGES THAT YOU FACED AND HOW DID YOU DEAL WITH THEM?

Although my colleagues sometimes refer to me as a Partner, I always politely remind them that I’m only working at a Partner-level and I am yet to prove myself and earn the privilege of being a Partner of a prestigious firm like KSK. I believe that I am certainly making my way towards it while enjoying my current role and learning every day. My primary responsibility at KSK, Bangalore as a part of the litigation team was to handle a few clients but one of the biggest issues I faced after taking on my current role as Head-Hyderabad was that of managing the office not just in terms of managing my workload and that of my team’s or managing my clients but also managing the administrative aspects of the office and developing new business for the firm in Hyderabad. This was not something that I was used to doing in any of my previous roles. Suddenly I found myself managing a team of associates and mentoring interns directly which took a little bit of time for me to get used to. Having said that, I have always loved challenges and thanks to the constant help from my mentors at KSK, especially Mrs. Smita Paliwal, I was able to quickly hit the ground running.  

YOU HAVE REPRESENTED A GERMAN INFRASTRUCTURE COMPANY BEFORE THE COURTS AND HAVE ALSO ADVISED AN UK BASED CLIENT IN ACQUIRING AN INDIAN COMPANY. WHAT CHALLENGES DO YOU THINK INTERNATIONAL COMPANIES FACE WHILE DEALING WITH LEGAL CONFLICTS IN INDIA?

As a young professional, I thought that there wasn’t much bias against foreign companies in India. In fact, I believed that they might have it easy because of their global reputation. I couldn’t have been more wrong. Foreign companies face many regulatory and compliance related challenges in India. Quite a few judicial institutions tend to take a pro-India or an anti-capitalist approach and this impacts the outcome of the cases that these institutions adjudicate. It’s the same for Indian companies abroad as well. This is a rather sad state of affairs as we live in a global economy now and it would be prudent for us to have a regulatory system which is conducive to foreign companies so that the financial benefits can be reaped by everyone collectively.

HOW IS A LAW FIRM EXPERIENCE IN A SMALLER CITY DIFFERENT FROM A METROPOLITAN? ARE THERE ANY BENEFITS OF WORKING IN HYDERABAD OVER DELHI?

Hyderabad is by no means a small city and it is definitely a metropolitan in its own right. However, it is much smaller when compared to cities like Mumbai, Delhi or even Bangalore. Hyderabad has a huge manufacturing industry which is spread across various sectors including but not limited to Pharmaceutical, packaging, textile, and many more. Hyderabad is also home to various technology companies from all over the world. All of these factors make it a great place for business and there is a lot of potential for law firms to support the widespread business community in Hyderabad. Having worked in all of these cities in various roles, I would say that the experience of working in Hyderabad is not very different from other metro cities. In my current role, I only work with corporate clients and the nature of the work that we do at KSK Hyderabad is very similar to what other offices of KSK and other firms in bigger cities do.

IS THERE A RECENT NOTEWORTHY INCIDENT WITH A CLIENT THAT YOU WOULD LIKE TO SHARE?

It’s not a very recent incident but around this time last year one of our big clients required urgent support in Hyderabad against an unconditional bank guarantee which could have been encashed by a potentially delinquent company in whose favour our client had issued the said bank guarantee in the course of business. It was a challenging matter to work on as all of us know that the law on unconditional bank guarantees is settled and it is next to impossible to obtain a stay order on the encashment of such a bank guarantee. We were able to obtain a favourable order for our client and we ensured that the said bank guarantee wasn’t encashed at that time. This was one of the most challenging and interesting cases that we have handled at KSK. 

WHO IS YOUR ROLE MODEL AND WHY?

Our managing partner, Mr. Jidesh Kumar, is someone I’ve looked up to ever since I met him in 2018. Having learnt so much from him and seeing everything that he has achieved at such a young age is quite incredible. I hope that I will be able to take a leaf from his book going forward and continue getting opportunities to learn from people like him.

WHAT ARE YOUR VIEWS ON GETTING INTERNSHIPS THROUGH CONTACTS? IS THERE ANYTHING WRONG WITH SECURING INTERNSHIPS THROUGH PERSONAL CONTACTS? DID YOU FACE ANY DISCRIMINATION ON SIMILAR GROUNDS?

I was fortunate enough to have few contacts in the legal field but I always made it a point to make limited use of them. While I did pester my uncles on either side of my family to help me secure 2 to 3 internships, most of my internships were obtained by me in my individual capacity or through the Placements Committee at law school. If students make sufficient use of the college committees, keep their eyes peeled for good internship opportunities which are regularly posted on multiple online portals nowadays and make it a point to network with professionals, they will go a long way in securing great opportunities.

YOU HAVE DONE MULTIPLE INTERNSHIPS DURING YOUR COLLEGE DAYS AT PLACES LIKE POOVAYYA & CO., OFFICES OF MENAKA GURUSWAMY, OFFICES OF ADITYA SONDHI; DID YOUR LITIGATION INTERNSHIPS HAVE A SPECIAL INFLUENCE ON YOUR LONG-TERM CAREER DECISIONS? WHAT WOULD YOU SUGGEST TO YOUNG LAW STUDENTS? SHOULD THEY TRY TO DO MULTIPLE INTERNSHIPS OR SHOULD THEY JUST FOCUS ON COLLEGE CURRICULUM?

Absolutely, I was fortunate enough to have done  3 to 4 litigation internships out of a total of 10 internships during my law school and these internships definitely made it easier for me to decide whether I wanted to pursue litigation long term in my career. Law students should firstly aim to look towards maximising their internship windows and not just stick to the 4 or 5 mandatory internships if they want to maximize their learning experience. It’s best not to just stick to the course curriculum but also try to do at least 2 internships in different areas, especially litigation and corporate law, and if possible, in-house, in order to get a taste of everything before they decide what they want to pursue in the long run. 

This interview has been published by Ayush Verma.

HOW WOULD YOU LIKE TO INTRODUCE YOURSELF TO OUR READERS?

I am an international Energy & Transport lawyer. What that means is, I specialize in a specific area within the oil & gas industry focussing on transportation, as well as exploration and production of hydrocarbons such as LNG, crude oil etc. I am based out of Doha-Qatar, which is the largest producer and exporter of LNG in the world.

But all my successes aside, I like to be best introduced as a father of two of the world’s most adorable daughters. 

WHAT PROMPTED YOU TO CHOOSE LAW AS A PROFESSION? IF NOT LAW, WHAT OTHER OPTIONS WOULD YOU HAVE CONSIDERED FOR YOUR CAREER?

I am a first-generation lawyer so the choice of law was not natural. Back in the days, there was a general push towards a career in engineering, medicine, civil services etc. Choosing law as a career was a process of evolution for me.

When I was in high school, I worked as a school reporter for The Telegraph in Schools (TTIS) and Hindustan Times in Calcutta. I always thought to myself that I will pursue mass communication as a career. NDTV had just started and revolutionised news media in India. I was enamoured by their debates and presentations. Given that I had a flair for persuasive writing and debating, it made sense but coming from a family of corporate executives, I was conflicted about journalism as a choice.

While I was struggling with my decision, my mentor suggested corporate law. I dismissed it at the first instance. Corporate lawyers were an invisible minority back then and as a teenager I had a conservative image of lawyers in my mind. But my mentor insisted, and he arranged a call with a final year student of NUJS. She opened my eyes to the possibilities and choices that a modern law career had in store. She told me about a regular day at NUJS, the subjects she studied, classroom discussions, moot-courts etc and by the end of  that 2 hour call, I was convinced.

I recall having a chat with my father later and we both thought that corporate law advisory will become quite relevant going forward. Following that discussion, there was no turning back. 

PLEASE TELL US ABOUT YOUR LAW SCHOOL JOURNEY, THE INTERNSHIPS YOU PURSUED DURING YOUR LAW SCHOOL DAYS AND HOW DID THOSE EXPERIENCES SHAPE YOUR CAREER?

Law school days were the best. It was like a blank canvas waiting to be painted by you. We all were innocent and passionate fools arguing and forming opinions on almost everything under the sun. It was a naïve world full of possibilities.

I always said this in light humour, that perhaps we learnt more at the cafeteria than in classrooms. But the reality is that the classroom teaching, ponderings at cafeteria and internships collectively made up my journey through school. The hair-splitting discussions on Salomon v Salomon or Carlill v Carbolic Smoke Ball Co. usually started from classrooms and ended up in cafeterias. I wouldn’t be half the lawyer I am, had it not been for these experiences.

During my time, internships were not compulsory but out of my own interest, during every academic break, I interned with Senior Advocates practicing in Calcutta High Court and leading firms like Fox & Mandal amongst others. These internships exposed me to real work and helped me get perspective in the application of the law at a very early age. When I started out after school, I was better prepared, and it gave me a head start.

Given the wide breadth of academics, law schools tend to focus on theory which is obviously necessary, but internships are a very critical part of academic experience. As I said, during those days internships were not compulsory so I had to proactively search for opportunities but  things are changing which is a very healthy trend.  

HOW WOULD YOU LIKE TO INTRODUCE MARITIME LAW TO OUR READERS? WHAT INSPIRED YOU TO CHOOSE THIS SUBJECT AS YOUR FIELD OF PRACTICE?

I am going to make a very bold introduction of Maritime Law. Common Law (which is the basis for laws in UK, US, Singapore India etc) as we know it, is only because of the Maritime industry. In previous centuries, when Common Law was developing, maritime issues dominated the commercial world. Ocean trade was the main commercial artillery of the world and maritime cases brought complex matters to the court, both in terms of nature of the disputes as well as money involved. Both ship-owners and insurers spent a lot of effort and money in setting up judicial precedents to bring about some certainty around obligations & liabilities involved in this trade. Till date, 90% of global trade is carried on the back of ships. Therefore, it’s no surprise that all major case laws in tort and contract involved maritime parties. This is what laid the foundations of the Common Law that we practice today.

As for me, it was through pure serendipity that I fell in love with Maritime Law during my LLM program, thanks to my professor at National University of Singapore, Peter Koh, who is himself a leading maritime lawyer. But serendipity aside, the fact that the maritime industry is innately global and international, inspired me and resonated with my personal aspirations.  

YOU ARE INTERNATIONALLY ACCLAIMED IN YOUR FIELD AND AS A RECOGNITION OF THIS, WHEN APPOINTED, YOU WERE THE YOUNGEST GENERAL COUNSEL IN THE GLOBAL SHIPPING INDUSTRY. I’M SURE OUR READERS WOULD LIKE TO KNOW MORE ABOUT YOUR JOURNEY AND THE STEPS YOU TOOK TO REACH WHERE YOU ARE TODAY. 

Thank you for your kind words!

Unfortunately, I don’t have any magic beans to prescribe. I did what any other successful professional of similar repute would do. Study, Practice & Repeat- this is an old trick but highly effective. Having said that, I think it all begins at doing what interests you and what you are passionate about. For instance, right from the beginning I was very clear about the industry that I wanted to get in; and once in it, I was very clear that I want to be part of the global energy supply chain. Having a clear target in mind really helped. So, all of my career decisions were conscious and driven towards this aspiration. In that process, at times you even have to let go of good opportunities; like early in my career, I was offered an  exciting role in one of world’s largest container shipping companies based out of Hong Kong, which I turned down because it would have taken me away from the energy industry. I guess the GC of that company is still upset with me.

This is easier said than done. There are far too many weak moments and feelings of regret because you don’t quite know what the future holds. I have personally gone through all of that and I am just glad that deep down, I was strong enough not to compromise on my goals.

Let me also tell you one thing that I did which helped me in my journey and that is, conscious career management. You see career management is a tact and by that, I mean tact for excellence.

It all starts from how you invest your time. The people you meet, the materials you read and the media you consume, they all should be well thought-out. It should be enriching you and subsequently applying it towards the goals you have set for yourself. Excellence has no defined parameters and it cannot be only about professional life. You need to have a holistic life and growth.

Now, let’s put all the pieces together: A) you need to be clear about your career destination. B) Study, Practice & Repeat – this is  important to deliver consistently as a professional. C) Career management through excellence – its about investing time in enriching yourself which will help you make better personal and professional decisions. In summary, this has been my guiding compass all along. 

YOU HAVE ALWAYS BEEN AN IN-HOUSE PERSON, WHILE MOST LAWYERS PREFER TO START THEIR PROFESSIONAL JOURNEY WITH LAW FIRMS; WHAT INSPIRED YOU TO TAKE THIS DECISION? WAS IT INTENTIONAL OR CO-INCIDENTAL? DOES IT MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE TO START THE PROFESSIONAL JOURNEY WITH AN IN-HOUSE OFFICE RATHER THAN A LAW FIRM?

I will strongly advise young practitioners to begin with law firms. That is where you learn the tricks of the trade. Throughout my law school days, I was associated with firms learning what I needed to learn; so in a way I also started there. Thereafter, I took a leap of faith and joined in-house.  

Inhouse roles tend to be for more experienced professionals so unless there is a training framework within the Legal Department, freshers should not experiment. I had a very unconventional start to my career. I joined a shipping start-up in Singapore in a mixed-role. I call it mixed-role because the Founder of the start-up expected me to do legal and commercial work at the same time. I was learning exponentially but had no training how to use all the knowledge for my benefit. Soon after, I quit and spent some time with international law firms. This helped me a lot in getting some discipline in place. Then I went back to the in-house role when I felt I was ready.

So, to answer your question, yes it does make a lot of difference where you start and irrespective of career ambition, lawyers should spend their first few years training in a law firm unless the in-house role is geared up for training. 

PLEASE SHARE SOME STORIES FROM YOUR STRUGGLING DAYS AND THE CHALLENGES YOU FACED DURING YOUR INITIAL YEARS. WHO WERE YOUR ROLE MODELS AND MENTORS WHO INSPIRED YOU TO REACH HERE?

There are many stories I could tell you on this but for now I will let you in on a secret. When I joined the maritime industry, it wasn’t very kind to me. It felt like an exclusive club of members who knew better. Both business and legal concepts as well as practices are quite unique to the industry, so initially, armed only with theoretical knowledge I struggled a lot.

Then I did what I do the best. I studied all over again. Not a degree, but I read everything that there is to read on various aspects of the shipping industry. Familiarizing myself with nomenclatures, practices and judicial precedents on them. I spent equal time reading and meeting seniors as I spent working. I spoke to business colleagues, and ex-mariners understanding the nuances of the operations. I even read technical manuals and SOP (standard operating procedure) relating to various operations of ships and ports to acquaint myself. I immersed myself in it and after years of effort, I felt I was part of the fraternity.

In this process I had many mentors. My father played a key guiding role throughout, few of my professors from NUS were very generous with their wisdom and two of my ex-bosses really taught me about excellence. My gratitude towards all of them is unwavering. 

IN THAT CONTEXT, WOULD YOU LIKE TO TELL OUR READERS ABOUT YOUR MOST NOTEWORTHY ACHIEVEMENTS AS WELL?

I am not sure how much will this interest your readers, but I have been quite fortunate in this regard. I work in an industry which transcends boundaries. I am part of a growing organization where I have had the opportunity to perform at the highest levels and I work in Qatar which is the world leader in LNG supply. I have had the opportunity to lead energy transactions that were one of a kind; like in 2017 after the Qatar blockade, we inducted 14 ships to secure Qatar’s production and supply-chain of oil & gas, which was vital for the country’s energy security. Similarly, in 2018, we helped develop a framework for LNG Bunkering with Oman Oil, which was a first for the region.  Likewise, I have advised on billion dollars’ worth of capital raising transactions for LNG projects as well as traditional shipping and offshore oil & gas projects. As part of leadership, I was instrumental in mitigating the onslaught of the blockade against Qatar.

To be honest, I worked on these and many others as part of the job. At that moment, I didn’t realize how impactful and critical they would turn out to be.

ARE THERE ANY DIFFERENCES IN THE WORK CULTURE OF QATAR, SINGAPORE AND INDIA?

At the core, they all share the same DNA. Accordingly, there are many commonalities among Indians, Singaporeans and Qataris (and Arabs in general). Value systems are quite similar, so I never faced any  cultural-compatibility issues. However, the work culture is definitely different and one thing which is strikingly distinct in these 3 regions is the approach and process of decision-making. I don’t think one is better than the other but this took me a while getting used to . In general, I have always focussed on the positive traits of these cultures and I found that quite rewarding.   

On top of this, I think a lot also depends on the industry itself. For instance, both the oil & gas and shipping industry have their practices and work-culture standardised globally. So, barring few deviations, the majority of the methods and approach to problems are the same irrespective of geographies. 

AS THE GENERAL COUNSEL AT MILAHA, WHAT DOES A REGULAR WORK DAY ENTAIL?

As the GC, my primary responsibility is helping the organization manage their risks, provide strategic advice on a range of matters and assist with commercial growth. I manage a team of lawyers from different nationalities. I also oversee the Government Affairs as well as the Compliance division of the company.

In a typical day, I would spend 50% of the time with the heads of businesses, guiding and advising them on day-to-day issues. I would spend about 40% of the time overseeing and guiding my team on core legal work. And the remaining time is spent on senior management issues. So, it’s very common for me to have spent the morning with the relevant teams discussing safe passage of our ships through piracy area in Africa. Then jumping off to review terms of a cross-border transaction. Then advising another business on a US sanctions matter while handling queries relating to the Board of Directors or stock exchange, and approving communications with various Ministries in between.

It can get out of hand some days but most days, I have butterflies in my stomach not knowing what problem or opportunity I will encounter today.

DRAWING FROM YOUR EXTENSIVE EXPERIENCE, IN YOUR OPINION, WHAT DOES THE FUTURE HOLD FOR MARITIME LAW IN INDIA?

Maritime industry has not seen the growth it deserves in India. And this is unfortunate given that India has such massive natural infrastructure at its disposal. Foreign shipping lines currently carry over 90% of India’s cargo and Indian tonnage (i.e. Indian registered vessels) accounts for only 1.3% of global tonnage which tells you how much India is lagging behind in this sector. There are other issues as well, such as, lack of a proper policy framework, incentives for ship-owners, connectivity infrastructure and  weak cabotage laws. But the issue of utmost importance is that the government must bring down the operating cost of a vessel under Indian flag (i.e. registered in India) to make it more lucrative. Shipping industry has had 100% FDI for over two decades but this is yet to translate into any major investment. 

Nevertheless, there are some progressive changes happening. Recently the government proposed the Merchant Shipping Bill which is slated to replace the archaic Merchant Shipping Act 1958. Similarly, Major Port Authorities Bill 2020 was also introduced. These are some much needed changes. In fact I was pleased to learn that in 2019, India was the first country to issue a Biometric Seafarer Identity Document (BSID), capturing the facial biometric data of seafarers. Also, the Sagarmala Programme is a great initiative by the government.

What I gather from this is that there are plans in place and hopefully we will see some real changes soon.I am eternally optimistic that maritime law practice in India has a bright future ahead. 

YOU HAVE COMPLETED YOUR LLM FROM NATIONAL UNIVERSITY OF SINGAPORE AND EAST CHINA UNIVERSITY OF POLITICS & LAW, WHAT INSPIRED YOU TO PURSUE HIGHER STUDIES FROM ABROAD AND WHAT WEIGHTAGE DOES AN LLM FROM A FOREIGN UNIVERSITY CARRY FOR INDIAN STUDENTS?

It was a joint program between NUS and ECUPL, hence technically I have one LLM specializing in International Business Law. I decided to pursue LLM because I felt that Indian legal education had not geared me up for an international career. Frankly, I wasn’t sure how a foreign masters program would help me but I took a chance. NUS was a natural choice for me, it is a top ranked school and with the financial aid, it became affordable.

While an LLM program is a great medium of learning and developing yourself, in reality it only has a marginal influence or impact on job prospects abroad. There are some great benefits of getting a master’s degree apart from specializing in a field, like for me, NUS changed my approach to studying law. I was sitting in a classroom with students from different parts of the world, being taught by professors who were globally accomplished lawyers and I picked up from them a very different style of learning and approaching legal issues compared to India. I learnt how to process, structure and present information and arguments. These soft skills have been very instrumental in my success.  

SO, HOW CAN INDIAN LAW GRADUATES INCREASE THEIR PROSPECTS TO SECURE JOBS ABROAD?

As I said, LLM has a marginal influence in this regard. The key disadvantage Indian law students have is to do with license to practice. Most global transactions are governed by English Law or other developed jurisdictions. With an Indian Bar license, you are technically equipped but not qualified to advise on those laws and LLM doesn’t solve this problem. By default, most international legal jobs are unavailable to Indian lawyers. Even in terms of reciprocity, Indian Bar doesn’t fare too well, so qualifying to practice in other jurisdictions is quite a challenge for Indians. Considering regions like the Middle-East where foreigners cannot qualify, having a UK license or US (typically, NY or California Bar) really helps.

There are two ways young practitioners who are interested in international careers can go about it: either qualify in the UK (through SQE- previously QLTS) or qualify in local jurisdiction where they want to pursue a career in law. This will add far more credibility than an LLM. Thereafter, pursue LLM in the choice of one’s specialization. 

WHAT WOULD BE YOUR WORD OF ADVICE TO STUDENTS INTERESTED IN MARITIME LAW? WHAT CAN THEY DO IN THEIR COLLEGE PERIOD TO PREPARE THEMSELVES FOR A CAREER IN THIS FIELD, GIVEN THE FACT THAT MARITIME LAW IS NOT USUALLY TAUGHT IN LAW SCHOOLS IN INDIA?

In India, admiralty laws and practices are as old as I can remember. There are many firms in Mumbai, Kolkata and Chennai who do some interesting work in this space. If a student is keen to explore, they should seek internships in these firms. It would be a wonderful learning experience for them.

Also, international institutes like Lloyd’s Maritime Academy has a great online program for beginners. There are few free courses available by different providers too, but I haven’t reviewed them, still I encourage students to look at them.

Finally, I can’t emphasize enough, if a student is serious about a career in global maritime law, getting qualified in the UK is key. Majority of shipping transactions are governed by English Law and there is no way around it.

This interview has been published by Ayush Verma.

HOW WOULD YOU INTRODUCE YOURSELF TO OUR READERS?

I am a ‘smiling lawyer’. Sounds like an oxymoron right! It is almost always presumed that a lawyer would be serious, stressed and almost never smiling. However, look closely and you will find many more like me. I love what I do, so much so that I never look at it as work in isolation of life. I believe you can have lots of fun and still find time to do all your work and do it well! 

The only other thing I would say is “You can plan life but always remember that life has its own plan”! I live by this saying! You have to be organised and plan the daily work, exercise routine and chores but the larger things in life really always work out as they are meant to. For instance, you will land your dream job when the time is right or find yourself on a 40 under 40 list when you are meant to. 

WHAT DOES AN IN-HOUSE LEGAL TEAM AT A BIG TECH COMPANY DO? WHAT ARE THE RESPONSIBILITIES ENTRUSTED TO IT?

Think of it like you are as an in-house counsel, the guardian/savior of the company. You play both a proactive and reactive role whereby you assume the responsibilities of responding to crisis in a timely manner and keeping the company out of trouble as well as staying abreast with all the legal and regulatory developments in the geographies you are responsible for. 

The variety of issues one gets to handle as an in-house counsel are vast and each day is a learning experience. 

WHAT ARE THE BIGGEST CHALLENGES FACED BY YOU AS AN IN-HOUSE COUNSEL IN LIGHT OF THE PANDEMIC? 

This pandemic has taught each of us so much. We have all learnt new things about ourselves and realised the importance of the small things and I for one am full of gratitude for everything I have. As an in-house counsel, this pandemic has required me to be a quick thinking counsel, who thinks on his feet and is able to come up with innovative solutions for the problems the business teams are facing. Also, it has taught us patience, resilience, better time management and most important of all, empathy for others, their problems and their point of view. 

ARE YOU SEEING INCREASING AUTOMATION OR INTRODUCTION OF NEW TECHNOLOGY IN LEGAL WORK? ANY EXAMPLES THAT COME TO YOUR MIND?

Artificial Intelligence is a reality. We are seeing it in all walks of life, including in our work and at work across all industries. The legal industry is no exception to this. In today’s times when remote working has become the new reality, technology plays such a pivotal role. It helps bring people together and build that sense of belonging and connection. 

The one example which comes to mind is the use of technology in contract management. A lot of companies look to adopt contact management tools to better manage the large volume of contracts. 

WHAT ARE THE TOP 5 MOST RELEVANT SKILLS FOR IN-HOUSE LAWYERS IN THE TECH SECTOR?

• Domain Knowledge
• Stakeholder Management
• Risk Mapping & Analysis 
• Effective Communication Skills 
• Empathy and Leadership

YOU HAVE WORKED WITH GOOGLE WHICH IS A DREAM JOB FOR MANY LAWYERS. PLEASE TALK ABOUT YOUR EXPERIENCE OF WORKING WITH GOOGLE. WHAT KIND OF WORK DID YOU HAVE TO DO THERE?

Yes, one often hears that Google is a dream job. It is an incredible place to work but I would like to say that every job is a dream job if you let it be. That is, if you are doing the work you love, enjoying it and getting paid for it, isn’t that as good as a dream! I feel very proud to have worked at Google as it is a recognition of the hard work one has put in and a recognition that you are at the top of the pile when it comes to your contemporaries in the same field. 

Working at Google requires you to be a quick and out of the box thinker, work incredibly hard and most importantly requires you to work well alongside some of the most intelligent and hardworking people. You are required to bring your best self to work each day, better yourself and be your own compass for success. It is one of the few companies in the world which will allow you to define what success means for you and provide you the tools to help achieve your goals.  And yes there is all that incredible food, those wonderful offices and yes that Spa in the office.

IN YOUR EXPERIENCE, WHY DO SOME JUNIOR LAWYERS PROGRESS FAST IN THEIR CAREER WHILE OTHERS STAGNATE? IF YOU CAN EXPLAIN WITH SOME EXAMPLES AND STORIES IT WILL BE WONDERFUL. 

While I would not like to take any specific examples, what I can share is that when you let your job become bigger than you, is when you begin to fail. Let your work do the talking but also hold on to who you are as a person. Your values, beliefs and ideals. I believe a person who works with honesty, integrity and passion will always succeed. Also, let your definition of success keep evolving just as your skills and knowledge. Learn something new everyday and don’t ever take anything for granted, especially your privileges! 

*Views expressed herein are entirely personal. Nothing said as part of this written interview should not be ascribed to present and previous employers.

This interview has been published by Ayush Verma.

How would you like to introduce yourself to our audience?

I’m a first-generation lawyer. I am currently working as the Legal Leader & Managing Counsel with Cummins India Limited at Pune and I am part of the Leadership Team of its Power Systems Business in India. I have about 12 years of work experience in Legal Operations encompassing Legal Strategy, Litigation, Business Partnering, Advisory, Compliances, Ethics, Risk Mitigation, Contract Management which includes support to Public Relations and Security. I have also worked with Thermax Limited and Mondelez International (Formerly Cadbury India Ltd.) in the past as its In-house Legal Counsel. I serve as an Honorary Committee Member/Council Member at Indo-American Chambers of Commerce and I am also a Panel Advisory Member at Confederation of Indian Industries (CII), Pune. I graduated in Commerce (B.Com) and Law (LLB) from the University of Pune. I also did my Post Graduate in Law from Pune University itself and I am a qualified Company Secretary as well.

Tell us about your journey in choosing law as a profession. 

I resided in Bhopal for 18 years. Most people in my family members are doctors. Being an inquisitive person, I always used to point out some subjectivity in any discussion and question many things. Noticing a person from our neighbourhood who completed Company Secretary and became an IAS officer, I registered for the CS course. Simultaneously as I pursued B.Com from Pune University and I finished CS while pursuing B.Com (in first attempt). After finishing the Commerce and CS course, I pursued a 1.5 years legal internship with a company called Garware Technical Fibres Ltd. (Formerly known as Garware Wall-Ropes Limited – Garware Group), who specializes in manufacturing fishnets and are world’s leader in textile and fishing nets. My senior at Garware (who was also then the General Counsel), advised me to do law as well and it would provide me an edge in my career. 

In the initial days of starting the internship at Garware Group, I was sent to the Bombay High Court to appear in a commercial matter. I was absolutely clueless and crucified on what was happening at initial days of training. This is where my journey in law started. During the first three hearings, we received a favourable order from Bombay High Court wherein I represented the company.  Then and there, I decided that I will pursue this path. As a result, I registered for law with the Faculty of Law, Pune University immediately after my B.Com. I even pursued LL.M from the same University which I cleared it with top ranks.

Over the time, I worked with 3 – 4 leading Corporates in Maharashtra, India in their Legal Departments and at present, I am working as the Legal Leader and Managing Counsel at Cummins India Limited which is engaged in the business of manufacturing internal combustion engines along with their parts and accessories. Cummins is a part of Fortune 500 Companies and is worth 20 Billion USD globally, headquartered in the US. I am a member of the core leadership team at Cummins Power Systems business unit that has an approx. turnover of around 60 Billion INR  Cummins is also listed on Indian Stock Exchanges (https://www.cumminsindia.com/) and is recognised as Great Places to work, many times by renowned forums and associations. Cummins is also one of the very few best companies in India who have been recognised several times for their best gender diversity quotient at the workplace. 

Did you pursue any internships during your law school life?

Since I was already enrolled as an Intern in a Corporate for about 1.5 years, I did not do any additional internship as I was working under a General Counsel who had 35 years of experience in law and was practising as an Advocate before joining Garware Group. My practical exposure in the legal background started with my engagement and briefing Senior Counsels and AORs where I assisted in drafting plaints and appeared in Courts which included my assignments as an In-house lawyer solving legal issues like drafting/negotiating contracts, drafting HR Policies, ensuring compliances and supporting the company’s businesses run smoothly. My superior retired but took an extension to guide me and helped me rise up to the challenge. He acknowledged me as a great junior. 

How has Company Secretaryship advantaged your career?

Company Secretaryship has always given me an upper hand in my legal career. To walk you along one of the instances, my legal training concentrates mainly on the manufacturing sector. As I have been working as an in-house counsel, one of the Group entities appointed me as its Compliance Officer for ensuring compliances along with handling their complete legal portfolio. During the pandemic, my organisation wanted to start a new project wherein with my corporate law insights helped the management in ensuring better compliance as it required various approvals under Companies Act and as an Advisor to the Board of subsidiary/affiliate Company, my advice was well taken and acknowledged. CS along with law has always provided me an edge because in-house lawyers, one need to understand the business very well and with the knowledge of company law, it translates the knowledge into quicker decisions by management within the boundaries of law.  Although I have done less of company secretarial and more work into legal/compliance, CS has always been of huge help to me. 

After Garware, how did you switch to a core legal background?

After Garware, I immediately got an opportunity to work with Precision Automation & Robotics India Ltd. in its legal department where I handled drafting, vetting, negotiating of various contracts/agreements and closed business deals. This is a manufacturing organisation involved in providing automated solutions to manufacturing units across Globe. I then joined Thermax Ltd. (Oil & Gas Sector) and Mondelez (FMCG Sector) wherein I was involved in litigations, compliances, advisory and business advisory. 

What would your advice be to law students who are confused about the practicability of the combination of law and CS?

I would definitely advise the combination as a dual-qualified-person is always recommended and is a cost-effective option for a prospective employer. One can understand the Company’s board expectations and align its thoughts to its organisation’s goals and business strategy. If your aspiration is to become General Counsel of an organisation, it is advisable to concentrate more on corporate and commercial law because as  CS is more about procedural law and if one desires to be a Company Secretary then one can concentrate more on Secretarial compliances and  Company Law. As an in-house lawyer, even if you don’t have CS qualification, it would not make much difference because in my personal view, pursuing CS is recommended/advisable however not mandatory at all. It is a choice. 

How did your family react to your decision of choosing law as a profession?

Initially, they had their inhibitions as the profession was not very attractive at that point in time. It was a tough adjustment for them. 

However, that didn’t bother me too much. I am not someone who was afraid of making those choices. Now, whenever I visit the family, all of them feel extremely proud and they respect me as a professional. They also acknowledge that I chose what I wanted and lived up to the expectations. 

How was your law school & internship experience?

When in college, I was still completing my CS training. I was getting a fairly great stipend at Garware Group which was very good in those times which included free food, bus facilities and medical benefits. I was fortunate enough to get a good internship opportunity, This was in the year 2008 however, as in the starting I got a good opportunity there were many peers and students of my college who were intimidated by me and disliked me. I participated in moot courts and also supported in various extracurricular activities. Law school experience was great in itself. Teachers were very helpful and they provided great learning to us. 

My interview at one of the Company was also unique in itself. My future boss called me and asked me “When did you complete CS?” I replied saying that I had finished it at first attempt while in college itself. He cut the call and the HR called later to inform me I got selected as a full time Legal Management Intern/Trainee for 1.5 years. I asked him after joining as to why he cut the call. He said, “Clearing CS in the first attempt was a great deal and it would be good to train you”. 

The moment my training started I was assigned with almost tasks of legal research. I got a great real time experience as if it felt like working in a full-service law firm because the Company had matters pertaining to all kinds which were Civil, Criminal, Consumer, IP, Company Law, Contracts etc in nature. Therefore, my internship was a great one as I learnt a lot all at one place. Even I showed a lot of interest being a junior and was very keen to learn, thereby getting everything to learn in detail. 

I had supported various friends/fraternity friends as well. Since I was working in the company, I would often share books/articles/legal magazines with peers since I had access to the organisation’s library. I used to provide the lectures, show them how plaints are drafted and how corporations handle legal matters internally and externally without getting into details as confidentiality needs to be preserved in the legal matters. I believe one always grows as a team-player and supports their peers. I have always been open to help people and it is important to do that. Even now, we have trainees who are interning with my current company and we make it a point to train them well and pay a good stipend too. 

Please share your experience of working with Cadbury (Mondelez).

I got a call from Cadbury and they told me they were in need of an FMCG lawyer. I told them that I am not aware of the food laws however as a lawyer and qualified CS If I am provided with an opportunity, I will be able to learn in a short span and deliver the expected results which Cadbury India agreed. I got in touch with their Hiring Manager, had an interview and they gave me the job with double the salary at that time. Interestingly, the company values your attitude much more than your qualifications. It was a pleasure working with them and I learned a lot during my tenure at Cadbury (now Mondelez India) I worked on various projects and also participated in global legal projects which was a great experience. 

It is clear that you have a lot of achievements in your career. What are some of your proudest ones?

I am one of the youngest Executive Committee Members at the Indo-American Chamber of Commerce. I won the Best Legal Counsel of the Year twice from Indian National Bar Association (INBA) and once, the award was given to me by Justice B.N. Sri Krishna which was again a proud moment for me. I recently received an award titled as “Rising Star (under 40) Award from Legal Era and the award was presented by the President of the Bar Council of India. I am also an Advisory Panel Member at Confederation of Indian Industry (CII), Pune and a Chair for the Pune Chapter of the INBA. I am also the youngest leader who is a part of the Leadership Staff of the Power business at Cummins in India. These are some of my proud moments which is a result of positive wishes/encouragement from my seniors and mentors.

What are some of your core values?

I believe in Karma. Whenever someone reached out to me in search of employment or professional support, I have always gone out of my way to help them. Somewhere, I feel and value that doing good for others has also benefited me as a person and is a result of what I am today. I believe it is necessary that we all grow together. 

In 2009, you pursued a course in Arbitration from Chartered Institute of Arbitrators, London. Please share your experience with CIArb, London. Would you suggest the course for a beginner?

I received a scholarship from the Secretary General of Chartered Institute of Arbitrator’s India Branch and had gone to the Bombay Stock Exchange to pursue this course. I am a prospective member and I can apply for membership at any point in time. 

One wanting to do this course, will have to know the basics and foundations of litigations and Arbitration. As a Chartered Arbitrator, you would be appearing for clients and the clients would expect you to possess a good experience. Arbitration is a different ball game altogether; it requires substantial experience and great understanding of the complex matters. To have a good understanding, LawSikho’s courses are a great start. Once you gain a good understanding and work with an Arbitrator, pursuing a CIArb course would bring a lot of value. I was fortunate enough that in my initial training itself I could experience arbitration in a practical sense. One may not mandatory be a lawyer to become an Arbitrator as per the rules, hence, this course is recommended to anyone who wants to learn or make a career in arbitration. 

What are your hobbies?

I have many hobbies such as travelling, trying different cuisines and watching movies.  

As a Managing Counsel of Power Systems Business in a Multinational company, how is the current landscape? Also state your learnings that made you a better in-house lawyer.

As a legal leader for Power Systems Business of Cummins in India, the business requires a lot of support in terms of compliances, advisory, litigation support, crisis management etc. because the business is very large and has several factories across India. It requires expertise on employment law, ethics and support on commercial legal issues regularly. I have realised that nowadays there is a need for specializations in particular domains. Now companies have started hiring IP lawyers for their IP issues, Employment Lawyers for supporting HR’s/IR related issues or Data Privacy Lawyers/Officers for supporting their cyber and data compliance needs. As a Managing Counsel at Cummins, I had an opportunity to work with specialised lawyers however the prime responsibility of ensuring and addressing all legal issues for the business lies with me. So I collaborate with other subject matter experts and provide required deliverables to the business wherein subject matter expertise is required. I am also a trained Ethics Investigator, so I support the ethics and compliance teams in their assignments and provide legal advice on matters concerning sensitive matters.  

I sincerely feel that a lawyer can only be valued in an organisation if that lawyer is able to solve problems rather than talking about it, which may or may not be related to legal problems alone. When you are a legal counsel, your capability should be to be able to build up trust and confidence in your stakeholders, and that personal confidence comes with understanding the business well. Always you should have a mind to develop yourself and learn more about your business else your stakeholders will never be able to understand your thoughts or align with your thoughts. The in-house counsel, sometimes, is the only person who knows about law in the management team, so he/she is a person who has to really translate law into something which can be understood very easily by the management team and other stakeholders. At the same time, the in-house counsel has to have an open mind to understand the business requirements, because unless you understand business needs it will not be possible for a in-house counsel to be able to offer value to the management team. The in-house counsel has to have a broader mindset which includes learning more and contributing. I always treat all my stakeholders as my internal clients and offer them my best services. This profile has provided me with a lot of learning, great experience and also have given great insights on the professional front. I feel that I am now more a strategic business partner than a lawyer. We have to support business in a true sense and as lawyers we take calculated risks which are aligned to our organisational goals/values and finally make organisation succeed in a better compliant way.

If not for law, what other career would you have pursued?

I wanted to be a traveller. I used to watch TLC, Discovery Travel channel, read Conde’ Nast Traveller magazines and used to wonder how people get paid for travelling and the same used to excite me a lot. If not for law, I would have definitely pursued that path. 

What would be your one last piece of advice to law students?

Be consistent and have the perseverance. Have a vision, hang in there, you will succeed. Keep believing in yourself.

For the first time in India, students from GNLU will have the opportunity to enroll in the LL.M Pathway program created by Texas A&M School of Law with Gujarat National Law University. 

The students wishing to participate in the program may earn up to 12 credits at GNLU on a case-by-case basis which will be evaluated and transferred to Texas A&M School of Law as per the American Bar Association’s credit hour calculation.

Students will then spend one semester and possibly a summer term at Texas A&M School of Law, completing the rest of the 12 credit requirements to become eligible to receive an LL.M. from Texas A&M School of Law at the close of that period of study.  

Applications for Fall 2020 are being accepted now. 

Have questions about the tuition fees, visas, eligibility for the bar, OPT, or the application process? Contact Ananya Gupta at ananya@lawnchpad.org or by phone at +91-7204686355, Autumn Lockett at alockett@law.tamu.edu, or GNLU representative Ms. Harsha Rajwanshi at hrajwanshi@gnlu.ac.in.

Robert B. Ahdieh, Dean of Texas A&M University, School of Law, spoke about the collaborations between Texas A&M University School of Law (Texas A&M Law) and O.P. Jindal Global University (JGU) for the GIFTED Program, and Gujarat National Law University (GNLU) for the LL.M. Pathway Program. 

Dean Ahdieh, could you tell us about these partnerships?

Let me begin with Texas A&M Law’s just-launched Global Immersion Fellowship for Talent & Educational Development (GIFTED) Program with JGU, India’s top-ranked private law school, in Sonipat, Haryana. 

Under the GIFTED Program with JGU, scholars will spend the fall semester studying at JGU and up to 12 of their credit hours will be eligible for transfer to Texas A&M Law. Upon successfully completing the spring semester in residence at Texas A&M Law, students will earn their LL.M. degree from Texas A&M Law. Additionally, by combining the non-transferred credits from the fall and JGU credit for their spring coursework (adding up to a minimum of 16 credits at JGU), students will be eligible to earn an LL.M. from JGU as well.

We are also collaborating with GNLU on the LL.M. Pathway Program, in which scholars may earn up to 12 credits at GNLU, which will be evaluated and transferred to Texas A&M Law on a case-by-case basis, in line with the American Bar Association’s credit-hour calculation.

Students will then spend one semester and possibly a summer term at Texas A&M Law, completing the rest of the 12 credit requirements to become eligible to receive an LL.M. from Texas A&M Law at the close of their period of study. 

In both cases, for the first time, Indian scholars have the golden opportunity to simultaneously get degrees from their Indian universities and from Texas A&M Law, allowing them to engage both the U.S. and Indian legal markets. 

Going forward, we welcome similar collaborations in India and other countries.

How do you feel about these partnerships?

Needless to say, much thought, planning, and due diligence has gone into these partnerships between Texas A&M Law and the Indian universities for the LL.M. Hence I expect these partnerships will create significant synergies for the benefit of both our students and our universities. Scholars who complete a double LL.M. more than double their chances of professional success both nationally and internationally.

What would you like to tell us about the Law School at Texas A&M University? 

I would begin with the significant upwards momentum of Texas A&M Law in recent years – with a bigger rise in the U.S. News rankings than any other U.S. law school. During this period, the quality of our incoming students has likewise increased more than that of any other law school, while our faculty has grown significantly and scaled new heights. Our reputation among judges and lawyers has also risen faster than any other law school in the country – and we are confident that our reputation will continue to grow in the years ahead. 

In addition, I would also highlight Texas A&M Law’s existing and emerging areas of distinctive strength: our top 10 rankings in Intellectual Property and in Arbitration, Mediation, and Negotiation; our very strong program in Energy and Environmental Law; and our emerging programs in Health Law & Policy and in Cybersecurity and Privacy, among others.

 

Finally, I might say a word about our location in Texas – the fastest growing state in the United States, which would be the tenth largest economy in the world, if it were its own country. New businesses – from Toyota to Infosys, Wipro, and Mahindra – are moving their headquarters to Texas every year. Every major law firm has or is opening an office here in Texas. With particular regard to India, 20% of U.S. Foreign Direct Investment into India comes from Texas. 10% of U.S. bilateral trade between India and the U.S. involves Texas. All of that creates great opportunity for growth, for learning, and for professional development for law students. And the cost of living is also quite reasonable.

What are the advantages of an international LL.M.?

The value of an international LL.M. degree starts with how globalized the practice of law has become. Thus, in addition to one’s home country law degree, an international LL.M. serves the function of enhancing one’s credibility both in the country in which the LL.M. is earned, and in the world generally. It also gives one a meaningful foundation in the law of the jurisdiction in which one earns one’s LL.M. – and if that is an important jurisdiction in terms of trade, commerce, immigration, etc., that can be incredibly useful. Finally, an international LL.M. is a ready vehicle to create a network of lawyer colleagues from around the world, which can serve one in incredibly good stead over the course of one’s career.

 

So, who should do an international LL.M.? I would say that anyone with interests related to business, trade, energy, international arbitration, intellectual property, tax, cybersecurity, and the like should careful consider whether there is an affordable opportunity to earn an international LLM. Likewise, those who look to work in any area of law with cross-border dimensions. And finally, those who have an interest in better understanding the world generally, and particularly the global nature of legal practice today.

What would you advise Indian lawyers looking to develop a cross border or global practice?

I think developing a network of international colleagues is always valuable. Likewise, the credibility of having meaningful exposure to a foreign jurisdiction. All this can come from an international LL.M., but it might also be accomplished in other ways. Finally, don’t neglect your LinkedIn profile and also other means to make a name for yourself out in the world. Tweet thoughtful insights on timely legal questions. Write a blog on some interesting area of the law. And the like. It takes time, but it can have tremendous payoffs.

Professor Ahdieh, thank you for your time and inspiring discussion.

It’s always a pleasure to discuss Texas A&M Law and the global nature of what we are working to accomplish.

NOTE: 

Have questions about the tuition fees, visas, or the application process? Contact Ananya Gupta at ananya@lawnchpad.org or by phone at +91-7204686355, Autumn Lockett at alockett@law.tamu.edu, GNLU representative Ms. Harsha Rajwanshi at hrajwanshi@gnlu.ac.in, or JGU representative Ms. Anshu Gupta at anshugupta@jgu.edu.in.

How would you like to introduce yourself to our readers? According to you, what unique qualities define you as a person.

I am a judicial officer currently serving in the Delhi Judicial Services. I was born and brought up in Lucknow and did my schooling from Loreto Convent. I secured AIR 5 in the All India Law Entrance Test in 2011 and graduated from National Law University Delhi in 2016. After graduation, I worked at Star India Private Limited in Mumbai for a short duration. I joined the Delhi Judicial Services in 2019.

I am an avid reader and sports lover. I also enjoy travelling and teaching.

The unique qualities that define me as a person are my ability to adapt to any situation and my enthusiasm to learn.

Tell us about your 3 experiences at NLU Delhi, which helped you shape your career?

At NLU Delhi, I got a chance to take part in numerous varied activities that have shaped my thought process and consequently, my career choices. Most of these activities revolved around access to education and access to justice. The three experiences that have had the most impact on me are –

Heading the IDIA team- 

(For the benefit of those who do not know about IDIA (Increasing Diversity by Increasing Access) – It is a non-profit organisation working in India which aims to empower underprivileged children by giving them access to quality legal education.)

Leading the IDIA Delhi team helped me understand the nature of my privilege and my obligations to those who haven’t led a similarly privileged life. It gave me a chance to interact more closely with the most socially marginalized sections of our community including children who were transgenders, victims of human trafficking, sexual abuse and gender/caste/religion based discrimination. 

NLUD Death Penalty Research Project field work-

I conducted field work in Uttar Pradesh and Uttarakhand where I interviewed family members and lawyers of some death row convicts. As a part of the project, I got a chance to travel to some of the most remote areas in these two states and to stay there. It was an eye-opener as I witnessed how prevalence of caste and gender based discrimination, lack of education, abject poverty, non-accessibility to justice, lack of basic resources like clean water, health-care and electricity impacted thousands of lives. This project also gave the opportunity to closely study the interaction that many of these underprivileged people have with the criminal justice system and how the later has failed them on many occasions. 

Tihar jail visits-

I visited the Tihar jail on numerous occasions during my law school days. My interaction with the undertrial prisoners in Tihar made me realize the deplorable state of legal aid in the country. It also gave me an insight into the psychology of a criminal.

Once I had these experiences, it was not possible for me to ignore or un-see them and they played an important role in my decision to pursue a career in judicial services.  

What inspired you to become a judge?

A judge plays one of the most important roles in the justice dispensation system. She has to decide upon questions directly impacting life and personal liberty each day. The district judiciary forms the bedrock of the justice system of the country- it is the place where most litigants have their first and last interaction with justice. It is important to keep in mind that for an overwhelming majority of litigants, the court of first instance is akin to the Apex Court as they do not possess the means to approach the higher courts in appeal/revision. Thus, the judicial office is a position of great responsibility and it is this sense of responsibility, coupled with fact that I find the act of adjudication very interesting and positively challenging, that inspired me to become a judge. I am sure that this service will keep me motivated to give my best each day.

When did you start preparing for the Judicial Services? For how long did you prepare and how many hours did you put in? Tell us about your cornerstone study habits.

I started preparing for the judicial services examinations only after quitting my job. I used to study for 7 to 10 hours each day. However, that said, the number of hours being put in are not even half as important as utilizing that time in an efficient manner. Some of my cornerstone study habits were-

• Reading judgements of the Supreme Court as well as the Delhi High Court and not just text books/coaching notes 

• Critically analysing provisions of law and imagining different fact situations that could come up in court- researching to find answers and not letting go of doubts without finding concrete answers

• Constantly revising and re-revising

• Practising answer writing in a timed manner

• Taking out time for my physical and mental health by ensuring that I don’t get overworked or stressed

Did you join any coaching program for your preparation? What are the pros and cons of preparing on your own vs joining a coaching service?

This is the most often asked question by aspirants. I would like to categorically state that joining a coaching institute is not at all necessary and self-study is more than sufficient. 

I did join two institutes. In the first institute, I attended class for around 3 months. However, since I felt that self-study was more beneficial for me, I stopped attending classes and proceeded to prepare on my own. I also joined a mock test series for prelims and mains at another coaching institute.

I found self-study to be more beneficial because it gave me the freedom to study at my own pace and to develop my own understanding of the laws by interpreting them creatively. A lot of times coaching institutes impose their myopic interpretations of the law on their students, which I believe is detrimental not just for judicial services examinations but for a judicial career as well. 

If you believe that your fundamental concepts of law are clear, joining a coaching institute is not necessary. However, if you are not very confident about having strong knowledge of the basic principles of each law, you could consider joining a coaching. 

Is it a good idea to prepare for multiple states’ exams at the same time? Do you think it is possible to combine judicial services exams preparation with other competitive exams?

It is certainly possible to prepare for multiple state judicial services examinations at the same time. However, I believe that it is better to focus primarily on not more than 2 or 3 states at a time because the format, syllabus, examination calendar, as well as the expectations that each state has from its candidates, are different. For instance, in Delhi the focus is on concept clarity and ability to apply the law to real life situations and hence, bare acts are provided to the candidates and questions are application based. But in UP or MP, the focus is on testing the candidates’ knowledge of the basic provisions of the law, the questions are theory based and bare acts are not provided. Thus, the same preparation strategy may not work for all the states.

With regards to other competitive examinations, the answer would depend upon the difficulty level and the syllabus of that other examination. I have very often been asked about whether one should prepare for UPSC CSE and judicial services simultaneously. There’s no right answer to this question but the candidates should keep in mind the following:

• 1. The law optional in UPSC CSE focuses on substantive laws whereas judicial services examinations lay a lot of focus on procedural laws.
  2. Mostly theoretical questions that can be directly answered from the bare acts or landmark case laws are asked in the UPSC CSE optional whereas in judicial services examination, a more in-depth and nuanced understanding of the law is required.
  3. General knowledge is not the decisive component in judicial services examination but the same is of primary importance in the UPSC CSE.

Did you target only one state’s examination or multiple states’? In case of multiple states, how did you strategize for each state?

My primary focus was the Delhi Judicial Services Examination. I focused on other judicial services examinations only after writing the Delhi mains.

Can you tell us in detail about the training you received at the Delhi Judicial Academy? 

The training at the Delhi Judicial Academy is truly transformative. It is for one year and consists of the following components:

• institutional training which comprising of lectures, debates, mock trials, personality development sessions, sensitization sessions etc

• court attachments to give the trainees a first-hand feel of the district courts of Delhi and to enable them to slowly start stepping into the shoes of a judge

• field visits to police academy, forensic science laboratories, prisons, hospitals, schools for children with special needs, old-age homes and a village immersion programme.

What are the books that you referred for your preparation? Please share with our readers the subjects to be covered and the kind of exams one needs to clear for Delhi Judiciary services.

There are three stages in the entire examination process- preliminary examination, mains examination and interview. 

PRELIMINARY EXAMINATION- 

Syllabus: Contracts, IPC, CrPC, Evidence, Partnership, Sale of Goods, Arbitration, Constitution, Specific Relief Act, Limitation, English grammar and vocabulary, general knowledge. 

The questions asked in the DJS preliminary examinations are mostly application based and test the candidates’ clarity of concepts. Hence, it is important to read the bare act very carefully and to understand the application of the law to real life situations. Landmark cases and recent developments in the law are also to be kept in mind.

MAINS EXAMINATION:

Paper 1- GK and Language

GK- Newspaper (The Hindu), monthly magazines like Pratiyogita Darpan, Lucent’s GK, websites like insightsonindia.com, gktoday.in

English- no special preparation

Hindi- Hindi newspaper (Editorial section)

Paper 2- Criminal Law

IPC

CrPC

Evidence

Paper 3- Civil Law 1

Contracts

Sale of Goods

Partnership

Tort

Family Law

Delhi Rent Control

Specific Relief Act

Paper 4- Civil Law II

CPC

Limitation Act

Evidence

For all of these subjects, I first referred to one or two standard textbooks. One can use any textbook recommended by their law school. My focus was on understanding how the various provisions of law are interlinked with each other and for that, I read recent Delhi High Court and Supreme Court judgements regularly. I relied mostly on these judgements to build my own understanding of the laws. It is a good idea to make notes while reading the judgements and books. 

Tell us about three challenges a challenge that you have faced while preparation and how did you overcome them.

I struggled with some health-related issues during my preparation but I was able to control the same by making drastic changes to my lifestyle. I started eating better, sleeping longer, exercising more often and leading a more disciplined life. 

You were one of the semi-finalists in an international moot. Tell us about three skills you have acquired from mooting.

A law school should not be treated as a place where one merely studies various laws; it is primarily a place where one develops the skill to think critically, understand nuances in issues, research thoroughly, and articulate well, all of which are indispensable for any lawyer or judge. Mooting has helped me develop these skills. 

You have been the best IDIA Delhi Chapter leader until now. How has it improved your leadership skills? What motivated you to do this.

Thank you for the kind words. 

My involvement in IDIA taught me that a leader must always lead by example instead of following a top-down approach. She should always consider herself to be a part of the team and not an entity superior to or distinct from it. A motivated and enthusiastic leader can uplift and inspire the entire team.

As a team leader, I decided to actively take part in the teaching/mentoring/fund-raising activities instead of merely being a passive supervisor. This ensured that I had a strong connect not just with my fellow volunteers but also with the scholars/trainees as well as the management team. I had a team of extremely dedicated volunteers who deserved to be heard patiently and to be valued for their unflinching commitment to the cause and hence I tried to make the decision-making process as democratic as possible.  I’d be failing if I don’t mention my co-team leaders Kritika Padode and Shweta Kabra who were with me in this at every step of the way. It also goes without saying that a lot of this was possible because of Shamnad Basheer sir’s personal guidance and support and because of the trust that he reposed in the Delhi team. 

I was interested in the cause of making education more accessible from my teenage years and was a part of similar projects during my school days as well. I don’t think that there are many other things that have the kind of transformative power that education has. Quality education can change the life not just of the person receiving it, but also of his family and the society at large by creating problem-solvers and community lawyers. This was my primary motivation behind working for IDIA. 

What advice would you like to give to the students preparing for judicial examinations and what are the common mistakes that should be avoided? How should they approach this exam at its initial stage and any specific areas they focus upon?

The first and foremost thing to do is to introspect and understand why you want to be a judge. The examination process is very time-consuming and uncertain and hence, if one is not clear about the reasons as to why one wants to hold a judicial office, one can lose motivation and feel lost. 

The most common mistake that many candidates make is that they bite more than they can chew. It is important to prioritize and focus on a few examinations rather than writing each and every examination that they can possibility take. 

Another common mistake is that many candidates have the same strategy for the examination of every state. Each state has a different pattern, level of difficulty and expectation from the candidates and the same should be properly appreciated.

I recommend that at the initial stage the question papers for each state one is interested in should be thoroughly studied. Effort should be made to collect all relevant resources at one place and to make notes so that revising is easier and more efficient. I also recommend that the candidates read full judgements and not rely on summaries available online. 

How would you guide our readers to prepare for the judiciary interview? 

The DJS interviews are really short. They last between 2-7 minutes. The interview is mostly a test of personality as law has already been tested in the mains. The panellists are warm and cordial. Do not be nervous. Before answering any question put to you by the panellists, pause for a few seconds and frame a structure in your head before answering. Smile, be courteous and polite. Be completely honest and sincere in your answers. 

How does the judiciary preliminary preparation differ from the mains preparation?

I strongly suggest that one should prepare for the mains before preparing for the preliminary examinations. Learning the bare act is a lot easier when you are thorough with the concepts. 20-25 days of dedicated preparation for the prelims is more than sufficient once one round of mains preparation is done. For prelims, one should focus on reading the bare act with utmost attention to detail. 

However, in DJS mains the bare acts are provided and hence rote learning is neither required nor encouraged. 

Is it a good idea to prepare for the judiciary examination while being in college? From which year one should start preparing for the examination?

The sooner one starts preparing, the better it is. It should be kept in mind that as of now, there is no fixed calendar or schedule for the judicial services examinations. Hence, it is better to start preparation while one is still in law school. That said, I would like to encourage law students to make an informed choice after exploring other career options as well. 

Anything else you would like to share with our readers?

Enjoy the process of preparing and learning. Don’t look at it as a task. 

Make your own independent preparation strategy based on your unique strengths and weakness, instead of blindly following what others have to say.

Take care of your mental and physical health.

This article is written by Saumya Saxena, a third year student at Symbiosis Law School, Noida who interviewed Mr. Satish Kumar, Global Head – Legal and Chief Data Protection Officer at Ramco Systems, Chennai. In this article, he has talked about his journey in the legal field, pro bono work and the probable impacts of the upcoming data protection laws. In this article, Satish Kumar has expressed his own views and opinions, and not on behalf of Ramco Systems. 

Brief Profile

Satish Kumar is the Global Head (Legal), Chief Data Protection Officer at Ramco Systems, Chennai. Ramco Systems has operations right from Europe, the Middle East, Australia, Singapore, Malaysia and India. He holds the rich experience of about 25 years working as the general counsel of various organisations and MNCs like Polaris Financial Technology and HCL Technologies. 

What led to your joining the legal profession? If not Law, What would have been your career interest?

You’ll be surprised to know that I wanted to be a finance professional that is why I started my career by joining Chemoil Corporation as a finance professional. My command in law and english has put me in a favourable position. The managers there felt that my understanding of legal nuances was good so they placed before me the option of getting into the legal field. I grabbed the opportunity with both my hands. 

I am saying this without any bad intention, I feel that being a finance professional is a thankless job, you work from morning to evening and still don’t get recognized. But fortunately the legal profession is a highly paid job as there are few lawyers in a company and each one of them contributes in a major way towards the closure of deals and get recognized. It is not like finance professionals don’t contribute, there are lots of finance professionals in an organisation but lawyers are very few (handpicked) so the management recognises legal professionals easily. This is the reason why I chose legal profession over finance profession, had I not been a lawyer I would have been a finance professional.

You have a rich experience of over 25 years in the corporate sector. Can you tell us about your journey in the field of law? 

I was fortunate enough to have the experience of working in many multinational companies, Fortune 10 companies and many Indian companies like HCL Technologies, etc. I had a good experience in Polaris, I received the ‘Konark Excellence Award’ and was regarded as ‘The Deal Maker’. I started writing in 2006 and up till now I have written around 500 articles in magazines, journals, etc. The best thing about working in the corporate sector with management professionals is the structuring of deals including mergers and acquisitions. I was fortunate enough to be a part of the deal closures. There is one thing I wish I could have done better that is balancing my family life and work life. I feel family life is as important as work life. All in all my journey in the corporate sector has been a healthy experience.

What are the biggest challenges that you have had to grapple with as the global head – Legal of RAMCO

The most challenging aspect is meeting the expectation level. There are times when I work post office hours and sometimes I work on weekends so that I can respond to the sales team as quickly as possible. Ramco has been a great platform for me to showcase my skill set. I am known very well in the market Ramco has given me the brand name. Today, I am known as the GC of Ramco. I have received a lot of awards as a GC like General Counsel of the Year by the Indian National Bar Association and I have been featured in the GC Power List – Legal 500 in the UK. I did enjoy all the challenges as it has helped me to project myself in front of the world and become one of the best lawyers in the industry.

How is technology impacting the work of in-house legal teams? What are the software and databases that you regularly rely on for your legal work?

Nowadays, artificial intelligence is catching on. I believe that artificial intelligence is here to take right from contract negotiations to the signing of contracts. Earlier, one had to be physically present to sign on the document and had to send the hard copy. Now docusigns are there, one can sign documents online and can be sent easily across the globe. Let’s take the example of reviewing documents I find it very tiresome and cumbersome although I have one of the best legal teams. Sometimes going through documents lead to document fatigue but artificial intelligence in the system makes work easier and quicker as it reviews documents in a fraction of second without missing out on any minute errors. The exposure of artificial intelligence has been a good experience. Talking about the databases, we have subscribed to many online legal databases. We also use external databases for the purpose of gaining information related to any specific country. Internally, we have a well-structured database at Ramco where we save all the documents and the details of the people coming in or going out of the organisation. It is easy to retrieve a document from our depository.

What is your vision for your career going forward? 

I don’t feel there is any restriction in my career growth, currently I am the legal head of Ramco. The vision is to become the part of the Board of Directors.

If there was a turning point in your career, what would that be? 

The moment I was given the opportunity of getting into the legal field which I grabbed with both my hands. It brought my career into fastrack mode. Also when I was working in Polaris I closed a 250 million dollar contract which took me to sky heights.

What qualities do you look for in a junior while hiring? 

Knowledge, experience and the attitude of the junior are the important aspects that I consider. The right attitude is the most critical thing for me when I select my team members. Irrespective of the number of years they have put in, I give importance to the right attitude as I feel that a person with the right attitude can always learn and progress.

Data Protection is a massive challenge. What role are legal teams playing in Data Protection within Corporations? 

At Ramco, we have bifurcation between the legal team and the data protection team. The data protection team consists of both lawyers and non-lawyers. Data protection laws and privacy laws are emerging in the legal field so it is going to be a big challenge for the corporate lawyers. Once the Personal Data Protection Bill 2019 is passed, I feel most of the Indian corporates apart from their data protection officers, they will also be required to give importance to privacy laws across the globe. The General Data Protection Regulation has given some thrust to the privacy laws but the importance still lacks in the corporate law. When the Personal  Data Protection Bill, 2019 will be passed, the lawyers will be in for opportunities in this segment. As the saying goes – the early bird catches the worm, the quicker you learn about the privacy laws across the globe, the more it will benefit the lawyers of the younger generation.

Recently, the CJI proposed the introduction of Artificial Intelligence in the justice delivery system. What are your views on that, Do you think it will prove to be beneficial for Judicial System’s efficiency?

Chief Justice S. A. Bobde expressed a beautiful thought process with respect to artificial intelligence in the judicial system. In the current scenario, artificial intelligence has been adopted by the corporate sector to some extent, we need to adopt it in the judicial system as well. As there are lots of cases before the judiciary, with the introduction of artificial intelligence it will become easier to predict the outcome of disputes whether it is arbitration or a court proceeding. The disputing parties can decide accordingly and make a settlement. Apart from this, artificial intelligence also tracks the way in which judgement is given by a particular judge, so if a case goes to a particular judge we’ll know what kind of judgement will come. Going forward with artificial intelligence, we are going to do away with papers. It is a big welcome move to have artificial intelligence in the judiciary. I am sure we’ll be seeing more cases being resolved in a shorter time which will lead to a reduction in the number of pending cases. 

What is your take on pro bono activities? Could you tell the readers about the pro bono activities that you undertake to give back to society.

I strongly believe in pro bono activities, whatever I am today is because of the opportunities that have been given to me, it is my duty to return it to the society in some way or the other. If you look around you’ll see that even the most educated people are legally illiterate, of course the rich people can hire the best of the legal brains but most of the population in India is poor and don’t have legal help at their disposal. This is why Chennai Lawyers was found by me so that we lawyers can reach out to the poor people and the villagers and help them providing free legal counselling whether it be family disputes, property disputes, we make them aware of their rights. In many instances, we take it through the cooperative lawyers in the court. At the end of the counselling sessions, when we see the smiling faces of these people it gives me an immense amount of satisfaction, these smiling faces are more valuable than money. I feel that all lawyers should take up pro bono activities as nowadays everything has become commercial and there are few lawyers who work for the society. I welcome lawyers in Chennai to come forward and join us in our efforts in the pro bono activities. Another way to give back to society is knowledge sharing in the form of articles, research papers to the young lawyers. I try to do that as well, I make sure that I write two articles in a week.

How can litigators and new law firms approach in-house counsels to get business? 

Litigators and new law firms need to prove themselves first that they have knowledge and skills. Nowadays, there are many law firms across the globe but only a few are knowledgeable. Firstly, they should be knowledgeable and should be able to prove that they have the ability to take it forward. Secondly, law firms should understand and adopt the requirements/work culture of the organisation. For example, some organisations are cost conscious so you cannot go with a hike budget, whereas some organisations won’t mind paying some extra bucks but the quality of work should not be affected so they want only senior lawyers to work. At Ramco, law firms can approach me directly through an email. If I am happy with their skill set and availability, I’ll be happy to work with them after all they are as good as us and we are as good as them. Litigators and law firms are our colleagues, I call them external partners. 

What are the major shifts and changes you see in the legal profession from the time you started your career?

There are a lot of changes from the time I started my career which is 25 years back. Earlier, the legal profession was not considered as important as it is now, earlier there used to be very less documentation as most of the deals were done orally. I have been working since the days when there was no email so right from letters we used to enter into deals. The level of knowledge of lawyers was not as good as it is now, with time the knowledge of lawyers and competition both has increased and also the maturity of the documentation has increased. Earlier, the negotiations were easier but now it has become very complex for example multi-million contracts used to be closed in a week or so but now it takes months and face to face sitting with clients across the globe.  The closure time for deals has increased because of the complex negotiations and an increase in the number of approval required. Litigation has also increased, now people are seen approaching the court unlike the old scenario. 

What is your message to the young budding lawyers? 

My advice to young lawyers would be that they should never shy away from learning the law, they should understand the requirement of the law whether it be corporate or litigation. I feel that they should get down and not feel shy about dirtying their hands. I will prefer that they experience the corporate sector first and then after a few years of experience they can go back to practice. It is important to have experience in both the fields. I would like to emphasize on the knowledge aspect, one should try to learn as much as possible as there is no short cut for success. If one wants to succeed in their profession, they need to keep learning everyday. Young lawyers should make it a practice that they learn something everyday. Nobody is a perfectionist, it doesn’t matter if you are a fresh law graduate or an experienced lawyer, you keep learning. You should rub shoulders with the senior lawyers in the industry. You should not be an introvert, you should express what you feel. Young lawyers should attend conferences, seminars, interact with senior lawyers and try to be in touch with them so that they keep learning from them. Young lawyers should make it a point, the mantra for them is to learn, learn and learn.

Srividhya Ragavan is a Professor of Law at Texas A&M University School of Law. Her research emphasizes issues relating to international trade and intellectual property rights. She writes on a variety of related issues including traditional knowledge, pharmaceutical patenting and agricultural subsidies. Her work, both research as well as service, particularly focusses on India. Her monograph Patents and Trade Disparities in Developing Countries was published by Oxford University Press. She also co-edited a book with Irene Calboli on diversity in intellectual property was published by Cambridge University Press.

She serves as a consultant for the Department of Industrial Policy & Promotion, Government of India. She has served as a Fulbright Nehru Scholar and as a Fulbright Specialist in the South Asia region. She has an SJD from the George Washington University Law School, an LL.M. from King’s College, University of London and B.A. LL.B. (Honors) from the National Law School of India University, Bangalore.

In this interview she talked to us about:

• Difference in respect to the pedagogy of Indian Universities and Foreign Universities
• Why Texas A&M University is an attractive destination for international law students
• Scholarship Opportunity at Texas A&M University School of Law

Tell us a story from your college days. What made NLS Bangalore special back in the day?

Raised in a protected environment in a small town in southern India, being thrown into a multi-cultural progressive environment of NLS was a culture shock. It took over a year or even more to find my place, my confidence and my voice.  Many of my batch-mates still laugh at how homesick I was when I first moved into the dorms. I give credit to the then professors at NLS who helped us accumulate the skills to transform each one us into who we are now. The residential nature of the environment at NLS helped us to gain legal education while also acquiring life-skills such as appreciating diversity, cultivating mutual-respect, confidence and independence. Traversing the learning curve at NLS helped me ease into US academia despite being fresh-off-the-boat in Oklahoma. 

What drew you to academia rather than practice as an attorney? Why not become a corporate lawyer which seems to be the most popular choice for NLS grads?

I have worked for top corporate houses in India as well as with reputed law firms. I enjoyed my work in corporations and at law firms. To me, that presented a different set of exciting challenges by involving questions of importance to particular clients. The distinguishing feature of academia is the ability to delve exhaustively in an area of research of one’s choice and passion.  I have been passionate about the legal barriers preventing access to and affordability of medications. 

You were also a visiting faculty of NALSAR and other Indian colleges. Can you please tell us the difference in respect to the pedagogy of Indian Universities and Foreign Universities.

Typically, the Socratic style is touted as the biggest distinguishing feature of American teaching style. While I am not appraised of recent teaching trends in India, professors in NLSIU those days employed Socratic style of teaching. Overall, I find that Indian professors are as invested as their foreign counterparts in their students. I believe that the big difference abroad is in the organizational requirements for a class which results in a professor organizing the entire semester ahead of time to set the expectations for students. Universities abroad also have exhaustive governance rules and enforcement procedures such as for student involvement in university governance issues, etc., which sets clear boundaries and delineates the limits for each of the constituents of the University.

 

How is teaching in a US university different from teaching in Indian law schools?

A good teacher is good anywhere in the globe. In India, teaching forms a much larger component of academic career here, sometimes to the detriment of research, which is a considerable component to determine academic success in the US. Students in law schools in both India and the US are typically interested and informed constituents. American law students tend to be a tad more independent while, Indian students, have more exposure to international issues and also tend to raise questions with an element of social consciousness. Personally, I have learnt from all of my students, irrespective of whether they are Indian, American or anywhere else. 

How can Indian universities compete at the highest level in the world? What would have to change?

I think it would serve to emphasize more research and scholarship in India although I am not advocating the US model. I believe that well-researched academics with knowledge of local realities are best posited to provide practically implementable suggestions. Personally, I feel that India can do more to use academic expertise to evolve impartial research to inform important discussions. Academic voices should be supplemented and not be supplanted by bureaucrats and judges.

What are the 3 biggest challenges that you have faced in your career? How did you overcome them?

My three biggest challenges to career are from being a woman, a foreigner and creating a balance between work and life. I don’t think I have overcome any of these challenges yet. Wherever I am in the globe, the biases from the first two realities (including in India where I am an NRI now) and the challenges of creating a balance between work and life remain. The only way to address these challenges is to constantly strive to do better and address these challenges head-on. It is also a constant challenge between being humble while being confident. 

Any tips for budding legal writers?

Indians are natural story tellers. It is high time we told the story about the legal issue we face and present solutions. There is an old saying which states that the history of the hunt will always glorify the hunters until the lions have their story tellers. Thus, until Indians present India’s positions on legal issues coherently in global forums, the narrative will always glorify an imposed system.

How can law students develop good writing skills?

By writing regularly; by learning to form “informed opinions” (as opposed to being opinionated); by supporting opinions with facts; by being cognizant of one’s inherent biases and ensuring that they don’t cloud one’s assessment of facts and by using critical opinions as a means to improve content and writing skills. 

What would be your advice to young Indian lawyers who would love to have a global academic career in teaching at international universities?

I think finding a good mentor early on is critical to appreciate what the market values and how best to project one’s skill in a subject area. Writing skills, critical thinking, clarity of articulations are also important traits. 

What is special about Texas A&M University? Why is it an attractive destination for international law students?

The University is one of the oldest Universities in the US. The laws school boasts of an international faculty from India, Hong Kong, Europe, Mexico and more. We have faculty expertise in several areas such as intellectual property, health care, cybersecurity & privacy, energy and environment and arbitration. The law school is located in the Dallas Fort-Worth metroplex which is one of the fastest growing metropolitan area in the country with a large Indian population.  Texas also houses many Indian companies including Cognizant, Wipro, Mahindra, Infosys, and others. The state of Texas has the highest investment from Indians in the United States which makes it an attractive destination for Indians. 

How can one get scholarships at your university to study law?

Getting a scholarship is a by-product helping the law-school appreciate one’s value as a student to the school. We consider all students for scholarships. Law schools measure the value of a student by predicting the probability of your success in the future. The prediction is made based on your background, class room performance, other achievements, your drive to continue in a chosen path and your ability to stay focused in that path. Students should translate all of these things into a coherent format with a view to gain the attention of the law school. I can assure you that Texas A&M has always looked for strong students who would thrive at the law school. 

Is it advisable for Indians wanting to practice in Texas to do an LLM? Or is JD a better option?

Both degrees provide offer opportunities that a student can capitalize on depending on individual circumstances. Bottom line is, if a student’s singular goal is to work permanently in the US – versus doing the year of OPT after graduation –the JD would open more doors. I think LL.M helps acquire advanced education in one or more specialized areas. A generalized LL.M helps to gain special knowledge in more than one area. Both degrees will allow the student to sit for the bar exam, although the JD is the more common degree among US lawyers.  With either of the degrees, students need to carefully pick appropriate courses keeping in mind their professional interests, available internship or employment opportunities to get to their goals.

How can Indian law students looking to do an international LLM chose where they want to do it from?

Many factors can influence a student’s decision and choice of course. These factors include the overall ranking of the law school, the specialty ranking of the law school, the location of the school, the student’s objectives in taking the course and the financial viability of the program.   

Robert B. Ahdieh is a Dean of Texas A&M University School of Law. He served as law clerk to Judge James R. Browning of the US Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit before his selection for Honor’s Program in the Civil Division of the US Department of Justice.  His work has also appeared in the Boston University Law Review, Michigan Law Review, Minnesota Law Review, NYU Law Review, and Southern California Law Review, among other journals.

He has also served as a visiting professor at Columbia and Georgetown law schools, as well as at Princeton University. He has also visited at the Institute for Advanced Study, at the University of British Columbia, the University of Warsaw, and Singapore Management University, among other overseas institutions.

In this interview he talked to us about:

• About the Law School At Texas A&M University and what makes it stand out
• Opportunities for Foreign Lawyers to practice in the State
• He also talks about Cross Border and Global Practice for Indian Lawyers

What led to your decision to study law?

I had always planned to study math.  I loved the structured logic and systematic reasoning involved in solving math problems.  But when I got to university, I realized that the relatively more isolated workstyle of a mathematician wasn’t so appealing to me.  And so, pretty quickly, I flipped over to a focus on law. Although I don’t think I realized it at the time, I’ve come to recognize that shift as a fairly rational one.  Law is grounded in the same kind of structured logic and systematic reasoning as math.  Different rules, of course. But same analytical structure. And so I think it all worked out.

What drew you to teach law rather than practice it as an attorney?

I actually practiced for several years before starting my teaching career.  And I loved every minute of it. While some leave law practice for academia because they don’t like practicing, not me.  I loved analyzing the facts and law of a case, putting my oral and written arguments together, and being in the courtroom.  Given the opportunity in both college and law school to teach, and my experience writing an academic book starting in college and continuing into law school, though, I also knew that I would love being a professor.  And ultimately, I decided I could have more of a positive impact on the world by teaching the next generation of lawyers and leaders, and by publishing lasting scholarly work, than through the work I would do as a litigator.

 

What would you define as 3 biggest successes in your career so far?

I hope the three biggest successes of my life will be my three children.  So far so good, on that front. But in terms of “career” successes, I suppose I might start with the publication of my book on the constitutional transition from the Soviet Union to Russia while I was still in law school.  It was a huge undertaking, but one that I am hopeful will remain a valuable contribution to our understanding of that tumultuous time. Since entering academia, I think I have been a good teacher to a broad range of students – facilitating their success as members of the bar, and as humans.  And I also think my published work as a professor has contributed to two important strands of scholarly thinking – one that has changed the way we think about how governments interact across jurisdictional lines, and one that has helped to shift our ideas about when regulatory interventions might be needed, and what form it might take.  Finally, as dean of Texas A&M Law School, I hope I am contributing to building the next top law school in the United States.

You have observed many law students become lawyers over the years. What according to you are the early signs that helps you to tell which of your students are going to do exceptionally well?

More than anything, I would cite a good work ethic.  Law rewards diligence and perseverance. The more a law student gives of their time and energy, the more they will get.  I think organization would be the next thing. So much of success in law school is a function of keeping up and keeping things together.  Finally, I would note the ability to receive and utilize feedback. Law is a learning process – even when you’re in practice – and so the ability to listen and learn is invaluable.

What is special about the law school at Texas A&M University? What would you say makes it stand out?

To begin, I would cite the forward momentum that has defined Texas A&M Law School in recent years.  We have risen more in the U.S. News rankings than any other law school in the United States over the last several years.  The quality of our incoming students has increased more than that of any other law school during that time.  And the increase in our reputation among judges and lawyers is likewise number one in the United States. We expect the coming years to bring more of the same.  Beyond our momentum, I would also note Texas A&M Law School’s existing and emerging areas of distinctive strength: our top 10 ranking in Intellectual Property and top 15 ranking in Arbitration, Mediation, and Negotiation; our very strong program in Energy and Environmental Law; and our emerging programs in Health Law & Policy and in Cybersecurity and Privacy, among others.  Finally, I would note our location.  Texas is the fastest growing state in the United States.  And would be the 10th largest economy in the world, if it were its own country.  New businesses – from Toyota to Infosys, Wipro, and Mahindra – move their headquarters here every year.  Every major law firm is opening an office here in Texas. As to India, meanwhile, 20% of U.S. Foreign Direct Investment into India comes from Texas.  10% of U.S. bilateral trade between India and the U.S. involves Texas. All of that creates great opportunity for growth, for learning, and for professional development for law students.

The State of Texas has allowed foreign lawyers to practice in the state. What is the process to be eligible to practice in Texas for a foreign lawyer?

A graduate of an LLM program in the United States is actually eligible to sit for the bar exam in a number of jurisdictions, including Texas.  Thus, a student who attends Texas A&M Law School is potentially eligible not only for the Texas bar, but for others as well. As to Texas, any student interested in sitting for the bar exam should review the requirements of the State Bar of Texas.  In terms of the LLM course of study, for example, students are required to take certain courses during their LLM studies – including professional responsibility, legal writing, and others – to sit for the bar exam.

Who should do an international LLM and why?

My view of the value of an international LLM degree starts with how globalized the practice of law is becoming.  Thus, in addition to one’s home country law degree, an international LLM serves the function of enhancing one’s credibility both in the country in which the LLM is earned, and in the world generally.  It also gives one a meaningful foundation in the law of the jurisdiction in which one earns one’s LLM – and if that is an important jurisdiction in terms of trade, commerce, immigration, etc., that can be very useful.  Finally, an international LLM is a ready vehicle to create a network of lawyer colleagues from around the world, which can serve one in incredibly good stead over the course of one’s career. So, who should do it? I would say anyone with interests related to business, trade, energy, international arbitration, intellectual property, tax, cybersecurity, and the like should careful consider whether there is an affordable opportunity to earn an international LLM.  Likewise, those who look to work in any area of law with cross-border dimensions. And finally, those who have an interest in better understanding the world generally, and particularly the global nature of legal practice today.

 

What does an applicant requires to demonstrate in order to get into a prestigious institution like Texas A&M University School of Law? Any particular trait you are looking for in applicants?

We are looking for students who will come to Texas A&M, add to and benefit from the community, and utilize what they learn here to positively impact the world.  What demonstrates the likelihood of a student fitting that bill? Obviously, we consider the past course of study of a student, and how they have done in their classes.  We look at language skill, to ensure that a student who comes to us will succeed. We are also always interested in work experience, given the skills that usually come with such experience.  Finally, we are excited to add interesting students to our community – however, that might be manifested, from interest in a given sport to artistic talent, or otherwise.

What are the 3 biggest challenges that you have faced in your career? How did you overcome them?

That’s a great question.  I actually consider myself fairly blessed, and so I’m not sure I have really faced “big” challenges to speak of.  I suppose one might be the fact that I wasn’t born into a family of lawyers, or a family with significant resources.  My parents were relatively newly arrived immigrants from Iran, who were in the middle of their graduate studies, and who were consequently not in a position to connect my sister and me with the networks that too often shape the professional path – and success – of young people in the world today.  They did, however, instill in me a strong expectation of excellence. And a drive to do what was necessary to achieve it. So I consider that to have been a good trade-off, in the grand scheme of things! I suppose I might also note occasional experiences I’ve had over the years, with colleagues who have taken a very personal approach to disagreements that others might handle in a more professional fashion.  In sustaining a community, needless to say, that approach can be terribly destructive. I hope I have learned from those experiences the importance of not responding to such behavior in kind. Rather, I have tried to respond as I would regardless, in hopes that I might at least keep the cancer of such behavior from metastasizing. And perhaps even help to reduce its frequency and tenor. Finally – although I consider it more of an opportunity than a challenge – my career has taken me to various communities over time, from Princeton to Israel, from Moscow to Texas, and from San Francisco to Vienna (among other places), all of which required me to understand and engage cultures that were quite new to me.  That has not always been easy, but I have found it incredibly rewarding. Hence more opportunity than challenge!

In the era of burgeoning artificial intelligence and digital transformation, what skills do you think lawyers should look to develop?

I know it’s a bit crazy, but I think everyone these days should learn a bit of coding.  It’s too late for me, as I’m too old. But anyone still in school – or even not too far out of school – would likely benefit from at least some ability to do some basic coding.  I think lawyers should also take the time to understand the technologies around them. And develop the skills to utilize them most effectively. Those lawyers who understand and can manage/apply the technologies to good ends will be the ones who are most valued.  Finally, at the other end of the spectrum, I think the development of specialized knowledge and skills – for example, in intellectual property – will be important to establishing and securing one’s value as a legal professional, even in the face of rising technological solutions.

Any message for Indian lawyers who want to develop a cross border or global practice?

As I noted earlier, I think developing a network of international colleagues can be invaluable.  And likewise, the credibility of having meaningful exposure to a foreign jurisdiction. All of which can come from an international LLM, but might also be accomplished in other ways.  Finally, don’t neglect your LinkedIn profile, but also other means to make a name for yourself out in the world. Tweet thoughtful insights into topical legal questions. Write a blog on some interesting area of the law.  And the like. It takes time, but it can have tremendous payoffs.