Super Lawyer

Author: Donnie Ashok

  • Sonakshi Kapoor on application and getting selected for the LAMP fellowship

    Sonakshi Kapoor on application and getting selected for the LAMP fellowship

    Sonakshi Kapoor graduated in BBA.LL.B from Symbiosis Law School, Pune in 2013. She had joined as a Junior Associate at A. U. Khan & Associates and had mainly worked in litigation matters. In 2014, she applied for the Legislative Assistant to Member of Parliament (“LAMP”) fellowship, her application was accepted along with only 42 others among more than 1200 applicants.

    She tells us in details about:

    • The application procedure, dos and donts in order to get selected
    • Working with legislators and drafting private member bills and assisting them
    • Experience gathered from the LAMP fellowship

     

    How would you describe your childhood and pre – college life as well as educational background? Did you have lawyers in your family who motivated you to pursue a career in legal field?

    I spent a substantial part of my school life in a boarding school in Mussoorie. The day I declared to my parents that I had decided to study law (I was still in the 10th Grade) they were left confused and quickly dismissed it as a phase. We had no lawyers in my family, except a first cousin of my father, but growing up in a boarding school ensured a very limited interaction with my extended family. So there was no one toinspire me or eventually guide me through a legal career.  It was altogether a scary thought for my parents especially when I decided to go all the way to Pune from Noida to get a degree in law.

     

    What inclined you towards the field of legal education? Do you reckon any specific incident that made you choose law as a career?

    Growing up in a boarding school, my access to the internet or the TV was so limited that it was almost non-existent. Books were the only source of recreation and inspiration for me. By the time I was 15 and meddling with the possibilities for my future (even contemplated being an astronaut or an archaeologist), I had already drowned myself in dozens of writings and books on women rights, particularly in the Middle East. The fact that a law alone could prescribe or curtail the freedom of an individual and influence life had struck me hard and was pushing me to pursue a career that would simply empower me. Hence, Law.

     

    Tell us about your law school life, how instrumental was Symbiosis Law School, Pune in shaping up your legal career? Did you grow an interest towards policy making in law school itself?

    Moving to Pune defined a very important phase in my life and my five years in that city have been instrumental in shaping the kind of person I am today. Symbiosis Law School, despite its small campus (the college has a bigger campus now), did manage to offer an education befitting a good law school of our country. We had defined hours and a plethora of subjects to study. This not only ensured that we read and understood almost all important central legislations but we also had ample time to participate in extracurricular activities.

    It was through a pamphlet on the college notice board that I read about the LAMP fellowship and how it offered a platform for young aspirants to participate in the policy making process. I applied for it in 2013 itself, however due to the recent Lok Sabha Elections the fellowship was deferred. My professors in college, who were also helping me with my LAMP application, helped me list out other similar career options that I could apply to. But I decided to practise law and apply for the fellowship a year later.

     

    You have worked with Senior Advocates and at National Commissions including the NHRC. Any remarkable internship experience which shaped up your career? How would you recommend students to go about choosing their internships?

    Every internship gave me an opportunity to experience something absolutely different. And I am grateful for all experiences, especially the bad ones for they helped me decide on what not to pursue, for instance from my internship at Bajaj, I knew I was not the right fit for a desk job at a corporate house. During my internship with a senior advocate, I was star struck. I learnt a lot but also gathered from my peers and seniors on how difficult a successful career in litigation was especially when you don’t come from a family of lawyers. However litigation is, without doubt, the more exciting career path and even as a LAMP fellow, I sometimes do miss attending courts (even though my practise lasted a year). As a law student, one should not hesitate to intern anywhere and everywhere. It is equally important to intern in a law firm or a company as it is to intern in a district court. However it would be helpful to achieve some clarity during the last two years of your law school, so you can only focus on the work that you would want to eventually do.

     

    Being a LAMP (Legislative Assistants to Members of Parliament) fellow is a great achievement indeed – you were selected over 1200 applications that were received this year. What all did you have to do in order to get selected?

    The selection process involves filing out an application form with a Statement of Purpose and a brief note on a recent policy or law. While I breezed through my Statement of Purpose, my biggest challenge was the policy synopsis.  I analysed the 2013 legislation on food security and had a tough time battling with the 500 word limit for there was much to say. The Food Security Act is a very controversial law with very conflicting opinions on its implementation and success. However multiple revisions later, I was happy with my note and submitted my application a day before the actual deadline. I was lucky enough to be called in for an interview at the PRS office (PRS also conducts interviews via skype for outstation applicants). The Panel interviewed me on the basis of my resume and my policy note and to adjudge my interest in public policy, my understanding of the fellowship, and my future goals. I was able to aptly respond to almost all the questions except a few to which I admitted having no knowledge of. Overall the interview did go well and I eventually received a mail admitting me to the Fellowship.

     

    How does one apply for the LAMP fellowship? What are your suggestions to people who aspire to become a LAMP fellow?

    The application process generally begins by April and the deadlines are also released. The general information on the fellowship such as eligibility criteria, selection process, stipend etc., is available on http://lamp.prsindia.org/thefellowship. The Application form is also available on the website and clearly specifies the procedure for filling and submitting the form. If you wish to apply for the fellowship, then you should start keeping a tab on the everyday working of the Parliament including the bills which are introduced or eventually enacted and issues which are discussed (for instance the crisis of black money was recently debated). Once the deadlines are released, start working on your policy note by listing at least 2-3 topics that you would want to analyse and eventually decide on the policy synopsis that you would want to submit. While writing your statement of purpose, try to put down concise information relevant to your achievements and your interest in public policy and the fellowship. Do submit your application few days before the actual deadline for you may face a lot of issues with the website at the eleventh hour, with many applicants trying to submit their applications.

     

    LAMP fellowship provides an excellent opportunity to interact with Legislators at a personal level, and to understand the policy process. What have you learned in your stint as an LAMP fellow?

    As a law student and then as a lawyer, my most basic achievement was understanding our legal and political structure and as a LAMP fellow, I have continued this learning process. I have dedicated my time and potential to the cause of a Member of Parliament by contributing towards his policy and legislative debates and other Parliamentary interventions (including drafting a bill) which I know will have an impact –in a small way – on the laws and policies of tomorrow. The magnitude of this responsibility alone has been the biggest learning experience for me.

     

    Please tell us about the kind of work a LAMP Fellow is required to do in a typical workday.

    A typical work day (when the Parliament is in session) involves framing and submitting Parliamentary Questions, Matters of Urgent Public importance that my MP would want to raise in the Parliament and working on supplementary interventions. The biggest task is meeting all the deadlines set out by the Parliamentary Secretariat and complying with its procedural requirements which are very similar to the filing process in courts. The interventions and questions often revolve on issues related to the constituency of my MP. It’s a small contribution to my MP’s work but it keeps his mind free and helps him take up larger issues.

    When the Parliament is not in session, work generally revolves around preparing for the next session, drafting private member bills, working on speeches that my MP is required to deliver on various platforms, and attending workshops and training sessions organised by PRS.

     

    Do you have any interesting experience whilst being a LAMP fellow which you would like to share?

    As a LAMP fellow everyday offers a different experience. Even though I function within the confines of a schedule and various deadlines, no two days are alike. However rather than an interesting experience, I would like to share an important moment as a fellow which was when my MP raised an issue drafted by me, for the very first time, in the Parliament. It was an intervention (supplementary question) on preserving the language and culture of tribes in Kerala and it taught me the magnitude of my responsibility and of the consequences.

     

    Do you have any plans to pursue higher education in the future?

    I do wish to pursue a Masters in Public Administration and I am in the middle of shortlisting colleges and universities abroad for my higher education. In the coming months, I will begin with my application process including taking the necessary tests. I would want to eventually work as a forerunner in the framing and implementation of policies and projects that resolve important societal problems.

     

    Is there any message you would like to share with our readers?

    You should be strong and stubborn in what you want to pursue despite all resistance. Even if it is a different career path, don’t hesitate to explore it but have the courage to make mistakes for they are inevitable and sometimes the best teacher. Studying law can be tedious and monotonous mostly but it is indeed an exciting career option so be strong willed and work hard but don’t forget to have fun along the way.

  • Robin David, Equity Partner at Dua Associates on career in corporate litigation

    Robin David, Equity Partner at Dua Associates on career in corporate litigation

    Robin David is currently a Partner at Dua Associates, Delhi. He graduated in B.Sc from Loyola College and thereafter completed his LL.B from Bharathiar University in 1989. Right after his graduation he joined the Bar and had been independently litigating. His practice areas included Contracts, Company Law, Competition Law and other corporate matters.

    With an in-depth expertise in various corporate matters and prior experience of 12 years in litigation, Robin joined Dua in 2002 and had since been working there. With his formidable experience in litigation he was quickly elevated to the rank of a partner in 2004. In 2013, he was made an equity partner.

    We took this opportunity and requested him to share:

    • His experience of litigation as a fresh law graduate
    • Building reputation and clientele in litigation
    • The role of higher education in building an illustrious career
    • The journey from a law student to becoming a partner at one of the leading law firms in India

     

    How would you introduce yourself to our readers who are primarily budding lawyers? Did you belong to a family of lawyers?

    I am a practicing lawyer for about 25 years. Legal practice is a great and exciting challenge. The legal profession gives one the opportunity to learn and to adapt. Most importantly lawyers have a great opportunity to do justice. I believe that lawyers have a significant role to play in the justice delivery system. I am the first lawyer in my family.

     

    You are a B. Sc. (Physics) graduate from Loyola College. Could share with us any specific incident which motivated you to pursue law as a career?

    I initially wanted to study engineering or science. However, since my childhood my mother told me that I would make a good lawyer. She implanted and reinforced confidence in me. So I applied for law more out of [sociallocker]my faith in her belief. I qualified the entrance examination. After few years of practice I realised how right she was because this profession is definitely for me.

     

    Being a science graduate, did you face any difficulties in law school? A lot of students from science stream pursue law after their 12th and face a lot of difficulties in studying subjects related to law. Can you share with us certain tips to overcome this issue?

    I do not believe being a science graduate is a disadvantage to pursue legal studies. Nor do I think that students from arts/humanities will have a considerable edge over science students while studying law. The study of science encourages analytical thinking, which in my opinion is one of the vital ingredients for legal studies and practice. The most important phase of learning for a litigation lawyer is during the first few years in practice.

     

    robin-david-1Did you do any internship during the course of your studies? What kind of work did you come across during your internships?

    I did not have an opportunity to intern as a student. This was probably because there was no mandatory requirement to intern at that time.

    However, I believe internships today are important. Internships provide an opportunity for students to learn about the application of law and get insights into the legal profession. Interns will be well advised to take their internships seriously. Ideally, interns should be willing and open to learn and know more about legal practice.

     

    You were also in the cricket and hockey team of your college. How important is it for one to engage in other activities apart from academics and professional interests?

    I started paying cricket from the age of 2. I have always been interested in sports and sporting activities. I played a bit of cricket, hockey and table tennis during school and college. Now I play cricket for my firm. I play golf as well. I believe it is necessary to engage in sporting activities and activities apart from academics and professional work. Being physically fit is crucial. Lawyers would do well to invest time on fitness and physical well being.

     

    Did you ever think of joining the civil services after graduating? Which career options were available to a law graduate in 90s?

    Civil services did cross my mind albeit not seriously. As far as I can remember the openings/options available to young lawyers were mainly to:

    • work as a junior lawyer (with little or no pay)
    • to join as law officer in any organisation/bank
    • join civil services
    • go abroad for LLM or to study LLM in India

     

    When you started your practice in 1990, how was the court atmosphere? How did the judges respond to young and new lawyers like you? What were the major challenges faced by you in the initial years of your practice?

    The courts are much more crowded now. The first challenge was to decide where to start work. Another challenge was learning the court procedures and practical aspects of legal practice. I was fortunate to commence work in the Delhi High Court. All seniors and judges were generally encouraging and helpful. However, the process of learning procedural law and how to face the Court is something every practicing lawyer will have to figure out on their own. The legal community is based on the seniors wanting to teach and the younger members of the Bar being open to learn. The junior lawyers were always respectful to the seniors and the institution. I also faced financial challenges because I was initially given a small stipend but I believe that such hardships actually help and motivate aspiring lawyers to work harder and be better advocates.

     

    How did you build up your clientele? How many years of practice do you say it would require to build a firm clientele?

    I am not aware of a formula to build a clientele nor can you stipulate a time line. I do not believe there is a formula to build up clientele. However, I have learnt that building clientele requires hard work, honesty, time, result oriented thinking and several other factors. In my experience I have found that the clients trust honest and sincere counsel. Knowledgeable lawyers do have an edge, however they are expected to be sincere to the cause and be honest. Lawyers should build up a good reputation for themselves.

     

    You have experience in litigation of around 25 years. Can you share with us your experience as a practising lawyer?

    Lawyers are trustees of the legal system. A lawyer is responsible to act with integrity and maintain public confidence in the judicial system. To be a successful litigation lawyer one must belong to a court in addition to knowing the basics of law. Counsel must be aware about their court and keep themselves abreast of the changes and developments. Counsel must be involved in Bar Association and participate in the court and association activities. Counsel should contribute to court related activities such as legal aid, arbitration, mediation, etc. I have had the good fortune of working with some great lawyers. I have also been a lawyer for the Delhi High Court Legal Services Committee since 2008. Learning from watching and observing court proceedings is an essential part of being a good lawyer.

     

    As a practising lawyer how did you manage to learn the basics of court room practice? Did you have anyone to guide and mentor you during the initial days of your practise?

    No doubt one learns from the seniors and colleagues whom you work with. I leant a great deal from observing others and noticing the reactions from the judges.

    I believe a lawyer requires to have a mentor not only during the initial years of practice but also later on. Initially mentoring is done by seniors but later you have to become your own mentor. A very important aspect of legal practice is the ability to evaluate yourself. Even the Bar Council of India recommends mentoring and training by lawyers.

     

    If someone does not go to a top law school, would you say he still has a shot at a great career in law? What should such a person do to develop necessary skills and profile?

    Going to a top school per se does not make you a good lawyer. Honest effort and hard work make a good lawyer regardless of the school.

     

    How did you get an opportunity to work with Dua Associates? How is your work at Dua Associates different from your independent practice?

    I began my association with Dua Associates in 2002. At that time I put in about 12 years of hard work as a legal practitioner and was already known for my work as a litigating counsel.

     

    Having been at Dua Associates since 2002 as a manager in the litigation team, you were promoted into the equity partnership; what qualities do you think helped you to achieve this status?

    Though I joined as manager in 2002, I was made partner in 2004. I was made equity partner in 2013. It involved sincere hard work and time.

     

    When you hire interns under you, what kind of qualities do you look for? What should an intern do to get noticed in a positive way?

    Honesty, hard work and commitment to work are important qualities in interns. I see interns who are there only for the sake of putting it on their CV.

     

    What changes has being a partner brought into your life, do you ever feel that there is excess of work load on you? How do you manage to strike a balance between your personal and professional life?

    Ever since I have started work as an advocate I have put in many hours of work every day. Becoming partner did not have any significant change to my professional working style. Have realised the importance of team work and have the need to contribute to the larger cause. Law is a calling and not a job.

     

    Do you feel that great lawyering skills are sufficient for a person to become a partner? What separates the people who become partner from those who don’t?

    Partners’ skills should complement one another. Ideally, if one is good at business development then the other partner would be good in other set of skills. Further skills can be learnt. Though, in my opinion a law firm needs persons having different sets of skills. Partners are those with great sets of skills and also those who show commitment to the growth and development of the firm.

     

    Do you feel that higher education helps a person to have a successful legal career? What would be your word of advice to students who wish to go for higher studies?

    It would depend on what you are looking for. For an advocate, LL.B is sufficient because practical knowledge can only be gained on the ground.

     

    How is the work culture at Dua Associates? If an associate commits a mistake or an error what course of action do you follow as a partner?

    A partner is responsible. In Dua Associates the Partners are the team leaders and oversee the work of the team. For example, if a plaint is drafted for a client the draft would be carefully seen by a Partner before it is sent to the client.

    Associates who repeat mistakes or stop learning will at least be talked to.

     

    What qualities do you think one should possess to carve out a niche for himself in this field?

    I believe hard work, honesty and sincerity are important qualities. Always be ready and willing to learn. Additionally one must be aware of the system and surroundings.

     

    What would be your message to our readers who are budding lawyers and law students?

    • Justice is important. Lawyers have a great opportunity to play a role in the justice delivery system. Many prominent lawyers have played important roles and contributed to the Indian freedom struggle. Lawyers can have significant involvement in society and can set the standards. Legal practice is a calling and not a job.
    • Honesty and sincerity in counsel are traits that are always respected by the judges, clients, briefing counsel and even opposing counsel. A lawyer must conduct himself with dignity.
    • Building a good reputation is necessary. A lawyer should carefully guard his reputation.
    • A lawyer should always be conscious of his/her role as officers of the court.
    • Young court lawyers should read the briefs and be well prepared. Know your facts. I have seen many young lawyers who are in a hurry to go up the ladder and look for shortcuts to grow. There are no shortcuts.

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  • Rakhi Mohanty on Masters in Commercial Law from LSE, litigation at Supreme Court and academic research

    Rakhi Mohanty on Masters in Commercial Law from LSE, litigation at Supreme Court and academic research

    Rakhi Mohanty graduated with a B.A.LLB (Hons) degree from NLIU, Bhopal in 2010.She then went on to litigate in the Supreme Court and later worked with a law firm based in Delhi. She is currently pursuing her Masters in Commercial Law from the London School of Economics.

    In this interview, Rakhi talks about:

    • How to choose internships while in law school
    • Litigation in India and its future
    • Pursuing LLM’s in avant-garde institutions and gruelling academic schedules
    • Academic research in foreign universities

     

    Please introduce yourself to the readers. Tell us a little about your childhood and your background.

    My name is Rakhi Mohanty and I recently completed my Masters at the London School of Economics and Political Science in Commercial Laws. I am an alumni of National Law Institute University. I come from Bhubaneswar where my father is a succesful enterpreneur and my mother has taken the daunting task of looking after the family and holding us all together. Given the lack of all-round facilities in schools at Bhubaneswar,  in terms of extra-curricular activities, sports etc which are essential for a healthy childhood thanks to my parents,  took the decision to give my sister and me an opportunity to study at one of the best boarding  schools of the country, the Lawrence School, Lovedale, which was our first step to leading independent lives as individuals. My younger sister who has recently completed her Masters at Oxford University.

     

    When did you decide to take up law as a career? Tell us something about your college life. Being a law student, were you only focused on academics? How was the academic pressure?

    I once had an ex-student visit my school and give a talk on the career attributes of the legal profession and that is very time since when my fixation with the area begun. I was completely taken in by the eloquent manner and by the comprehensive and persuasive power of the speech. As I grew up and kept myself more updated with the day-to-day news from over the world over, I noticed a common pattern of most of the prominent leaders and personalities over the world sharing a common factor of law between them. I would be lying if I say that the John Grisham novels, in their glamorous projection of lawyers, did not play a major role in my decision-making. Luckily for me, I had the privilege of committing to the career at a time of National Law Schools and law firms, which were offering some of the most promising remunerations making it one of the most rewarding professions. By the time I set my foot into the professional arena,  career in law had begun to being considered as one of the most promising careers for a young individual looking for a dynamic and successful life. NLIU provided me with the much needed break in terms of a rigorous five year program which helps a student get a taste of the various subjects that law as a discpline has to offer. We had a trimester system which kept us on our toes as we had exams and project presentations every few months. Having said that, NLIU provided a student with a wide arena of extra curriculars as well which would help one in an all round development as a professional.

     

    You’ve interned at think-tanks like the Citizen Consumer and Civic Action Group. How instrumental were these internships in helping you decide what field of law you wished to specialize in?

    I think the think tanks that I did intern for, provided me with an opportunity to see aspects of life, not necessarily as a lawyer but as a a citizen, working for the betterment and efficency of the society that we live in. To be entirely honest, I enjoyed my work thoroughly and saw a side to law which requires an amount of sheer grid and determination to go on working effortlessly for the cause of others and for social well-being. They provided me with a wide area of subjects to work under such as environmental law, constitutional law etc. Having said that, as a lawyer, I feel, that one needs to find their specific area of interest to which they are willing to dedicate the next 40-50 years of their lives, working 13-14 hours each day. I found my calling in commercial laws and I am glad that before I branched out to this specific area, I got an opportunity to work and get a gist of the different branches of law, which I may never again get an opportunity to work in from here on.

     

    After your graduation, you worked in the Supreme Court. What is the reality of litigation in India? Do you think that the effort that is put into litigation does see fruition in all cases or the field of litigation is an overrated career option?

    To be honest, working in the Supreme Court first as a law clerk and then as a lawyer was one of the most defining moments of my career. I got to see the law being exercised from both sides, from the bench and from the other end, the bar. At one point of time I got to work on various judgments and be a part of the evolution of the law and later on, as a lawyer, I was working on the arguments for a case to be presented before the court. Having been asked about litigation, I would be able to explain litigation if I draw an analogy by saying that lttigation is more like running a long distance marathon. It happens at a slower pace, one needs to build up a momentum and gather the stamina, the more one practises the better they get at it and it takes a while to reach the finishing line but there is nothing quite like it. If somebody wants to litigate and feel passionately for it, they should be ready to put in the required dedication for a certain period of time and avoid feeling let down by minor setbacks. However, I think the legal profession demands one’s full time and undeterred time and attention to succeed and to be right at the top. The reality of litigation in India can be very disappointing at times, but to be honest, there is quite a high when you get argue before a bench or are applauded by the bench for presenting a case well or finishing a matter by yourself. However, I personally feel that it could only happen if one pursues something which they feel passionately for and do not feel the heat of long hours and that of a strenuous work life. I tend to be quite impatient as a person and get easily hassled by long bureaucratic processes and felt that I would not be good at litigation. I needed to find something which I could take forward and feel passionately about and that happened for me in the form of competition law.

     

    You completed your Masters from the London School of Economics. At what point did you decide to pursue your Masters? What was your motivation?

    I had decided from the very beginning that I would pursue my Masters after putting in a couple of years of work so as to be able decide as to what I want to specialise in. I stuck to my plan and after having worked for one year in the Supreme Court and then for another two years as a litigating lawyer, I decided to apply for my Masters and pursue a degree in Commercial Laws. The motivation was excellence. I did not want to slip into mediocricy and that could have only happened if I had the clarity and knowledge, which could be acquired with a Masters program.

     

    How different is the style of teaching at LSE? Do they focus more on the practical aspects of the law as compared to the NLUs?

    The teaching at LSE was extremely different from that what I had experienced at NLIU. At LSE, the students are expected to finish their readings, research and be well-prepared before a class. During the class, one is expected to voice your opinion and it is more of a discussion and sharing of opinions between the professors and the students instead of a scenario where professors are expected to spoon feed the students. In my opinion, the teaching methodolgy in the universities abroad is far superior to what we have in India as one is compelled to think out of the box, start training their mind as a professional and most importantly, it teaches you to be responsible towards your degree. The whole point of such a methodolgy of teaching is to make sure that students not only study the law as a subject but in the process learn its applications and be able to clear their notions on its implications. Having said that, one cannot forget that the degree that I attained at NLIU was an undergraduate one, which introduced me to the profession, whereas, I entered LSE as a professional, attaining a Masters degree and in the process had to a certain stature and sophistication to my work. It is only fair as to at which point, which university expected what level of work from me.

     

    How did you choose LSE over other colleges? What was the decisive factor?

    I liked the LL.M program that LSE had to offer and the wide array of subjects to choose from. What not a lot of people are aware of is that the LL.M program at the LSE is one of the intensive and prestigious programs that the University has to offer. Further, LSE offers you that one opportunity to experience life in London, the epicentre of world economy and commercial laws. I think what a lot of people do not understand is that Masters is not just about the course you study but should have the ability to  motivate, make you push your limits and not only change your perception of your life but also be a game-changer for your career. LSE and London did just that for me.

     

    What is your view on the latest trend among law students to pursue Masters abroad? How much of a brain drain do you think this is?

    In my opinion, pursuing one’s Maters abroad is not a brain drain at all. Pursuing Masters abroad gives a student a much wider perspective of the world at large and provides the much needed incites to bring in a certain level of sophistication to their work and thought process which could be put to much better use even if one decides to head back home and pursue their career in India. I feel Masters abroad is only as much a brain drain as it would be in various scenarios where lawyers working in India decide to settle abroad at some point of time in their lives for various miscellaneous reasons.

     

    In your opinion, do you think the NLU’s are conducive to academic research on a level that law schools abroad are? What is the future of NLUs?

    I feel that the compulsory requirement for academic research, which is in form of projects etc, that is being conducted by the NLUs is more of a technicality on paper rather than it being something which is actually effective and productive. I think we need to contemplate the level/standard of academic research that is being produced in the NLUs . In my experience abroad, the research work is taken extremely seriously whereby each student is appointed a supervisor who guides and provides incites into the research over the span of time so as to be able to produce something substantial and at the same time mentors the student for better research and drafting skills in terms of academic writing which leads to more international publications and referencing. In my opinion, NLUs need to put in more thought when it comes to academic research when it comes to competing with the world class universities abroad.

     

    What are your plans after completing your Masters?

    I intend to work in a reputed Competition Law/Antitrust team. I am currently exploring job opportunities in Europe as well India and given the global nature of the subject, I intend to appear for the QLTS or NY Bar exams in the due course of time so as to be able to have a multi-jurisdictional advantage to be able to make my mark as a Competition Law expert across the globe.

     

    For the benefit of the law students, kindly share some experiences of starting up with a law firm. Students are trying to gather various internship experiences at different places. Do you think internships help a law student?

    I think internships are extremely important when one is pursuing their LL.B. However, what I have learnt from my experience is that, it isn’t important to intern in various number of places but to pick one place which one feels is the best choice for them and to intern there a number of times so as to be able to exhibit their skills in that particular organization. When the time comes for recruitment, a firm or organization tends to prioritise a former intern or recalls that person’s good work over a completely fresh face. I would advice that handpick a couple of places and try to put in your best work there so that the organization either offers you a PPO or prioritises your joining in campus placements. The students should be aware of the reality that working in a law firm is not the easiest ways of life. One would be required to put in their complete time and dedication so as to be able to make a mark in a workplace.

     

    What would be your parting message to the law students?

    I would urge all budding law students to think out of the box and have the conviction to stand by their career choices, be it being that of a corporate lawyer or that of an environmentalist. We are living in a time and age when doing anything can bring you success, provided you excel in it. It is important the future talent prioritises excellence over being a part of mediocrity.

  • Anujaya Krishna on being a DAAD Scholar and authoring book on Sports Law

    Anujaya Krishna on being a DAAD Scholar and authoring book on Sports Law

    Anujaya Krishna is one of the most diligent scholars of the 2013 batch of NLIU, Bhopal. Anujaya has been the Co-Convenor of the Moot Court Association, editor of the IP Law Journal and has also authored a book on Sports Law. She is the DAAD Scholar for 2014-15 and is currently pursuing her masters in European Law.

    In this interview, Anujaya talks about:

    • Applying for scholarships and choosing the right field of specialization
    • Publications in law school
    • Balancing time for other pursuits while in law school

     

    When did you decide to take up law as a career? Tell us something about your college life.

    Frankly, coming into law was a matter of chance. More than me choosing law, I’d put it this way (at the risk of sounding archaic) – Law chose me. I was giving engineering examinations and took CLAT along with those. When I secured a good rank in the exam, I decided to take a leap of faith!

    College life cannot be described, but I’ll try. It was splendid- taught me a lot and helped me grow as a person as well as develop a deeper understanding of the profession I was taking up.

     

    What sort of internships did you do while in law school? How instrumental were these internships in helping you decide what field of law you wished to specialize in?

    I mostly interned with advocates in my hometown, Lucknow. I also interned with UNICEF and the State Legal Services Authority in Lucknow. The only law firm internship I did was with Amarchand & Mangaldas & Suresh A. Shroff & Sons.

    Given that I chose Sports Law as my field of specialization, it was not easy to find work in that field. But I made up for that by doing research on it for my dissertation and projects in the university. In my internships, I got the opportunity to work on cases of mediation, company law, corruption, labour issues, and I also learnt how to go about due diligence and drafting.

    I believe that one should take up an opportunity when it presents itself, because nothing you learn or work on goes in vain, ever.

     

    You were Co-Convenor of the Moot Court Association. How much emphasis would you place on mooting in law school? How do you think it helps in developing argumentation and analytical skills?

    Mooting is an activity that hones your skills in myriad areas and I strongly recommend that students give it a try in law school. It goes a long way in making one versatile and grow from being a law student to a lawyer as it were.

    Mooting, to my understanding, has something for everyone- whether you are more comfortable speaking or drafting and doing research. Mooting helps gain a better understanding of the law because it enables you to apply what you have learnt and create arguments. Not only that, it also helps you think like a lawyer- focusing not only on your arguments but also on the possible arguments from the other side.

     

    You have been editor of the NLIU Law Review as well as the IP Law Journal and have several research publications to your credit. What made you develop such a keen interest in writing research papers? How did you develop on them?

    I have been fortunate to get a chance to work on several aspects relating to research and publication. While I was on the content review and editing board for the NLIU Law Review, for the IP Law Journal, I worked on the Management Board. My main motivation for writing research papers has been my interest in exploring and developing Sports Law as a field. If you notice, most of the papers I have written are based on the same.

    As for how I went about developing and writing them, I referred to books in the library and articles available online. Also, I tried conducting surveys or gaining some practical insight into the topics as well. The key point to remember when writing a research paper is to choose a topic that really interests you, so that you are constantly motivated to write about it- irrespective of dearth of resources, time etc.

     

    Congratulations on your book ‘Sports Law’. Why did you choose sports law to be the subject of your book? What motivated you to take up a field of law that isn’t that well known? What resources did you have at your disposal?

    Thank you! Like I said, Sports Law is a field that has not been explored much and we need more scholarship in that area, especially in India. Whenever I used to mention that I want to specialize in Sports Law, most people were either unaware of the subject or said that I should not set my heart on such an ‘obscure’ topic. It was exactly the fact that this field of law “isn’t that well known” that prompted me to write about it.

    I referred to some books on the subject available in the university library, all by foreign authors but I was fortunate to find one book by an Indian author as well. Case laws from the official website of the Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS) and other sources also helped. Apart from research papers and newspaper articles on issues revolving around sports law, for instance the (Draft) National Sports Development Bill, there were autobiographies and memoirs of sportspersons that gave me an insight into the status of sports in India and elsewhere.

    I also got a chance to interact with some players and coaches in Lucknow to know their views on the idea of law intervening in sports. Also, I had the guidance of my parents (who are both teachers), brother (who is a budding tennis player) and professors, encouraging me to work on this topic.

     

    When did you decide to start writing the book? Share with us your experience in getting it published and what was the reception to the book?

    The book is actually based on the dissertation I made in the final year of law school. It was my mother’s idea to get it published.

    I am thankful to Universal Law Publishers who gave a positive response to my proposal to get the book on Sports Law published and it was a smooth process. As regards the reception of the book, apart from positive reviews from my family and friends, I was glad to see that students from other law schools also read and liked the work. As a matter of fact, I recently got an opportunity to write on gaming laws for a website after the editor came across my book. At the same time, there has been some constructive criticism as well and I definitely hope to improve in the future. Reviews and suggestions are always welcome!

     

    How did you balance out your time while authoring the book? Do you have any future plans of taking up writing as a career?

    I guess you just have to make time to do the things that you love and that is exactly what I did while working on the manuscript for the book. There is no formula for it.

    Writing has always been close to my heart- not just writing on law but even fiction and poetry. It is too early to comment on whether I will take it up as a full-fledged career but I wish to keep writing whenever I get the chance.

     

    You also worked with AMSS, Bangalore. How was the experience of working in a corporate setup? What sort of research did your job profile entail?

    I feel very fortunate to have gotten a chance to work with AMSS, Bangalore. The work atmosphere is excellent and I got the opportunity to work with some of the best minds in the field of corporate law in India. The seniors were very encouraging and approachable too.

    There were various areas of law that I got to research on. I did extensive due diligence on the labour law compliances as well as on stamp duties for certain types of agreements. I also did research on aspects of contract law as well as FEMA and RBI regulations. The most memorable part was that I got to explore aspects of the new Companies Act (2013) and Rules thereunder, under the aegis of the best law firm with such knowledgeable people.

     

    You are also the DAAD Scholar for 2014-15. How did you go about applying for the scholarship? What would you advise fresh aspirants to focus on?

    My mother informed me about the scholarship and I applied for it. The most important part is the Statement of Purpose (SoP), so I would advise fresh aspirants to draft an SoP that is honest and reflects their interests and motivation clearly.

     

    What is the field of specialization you’ve chosen for the LLM?  Why did you choose that subject?

    The scholarship I received is for the study of European law. In my LL.M. course, I will be studying various aspects of European integration and I hope to make my master’s thesis on European Union (EU) policy in the field of sports.

    Coming from India- a country of unity in diversity, I think it will be interesting to understand and learn the way the EU functions, moving towards an ‘ever closer union’. Moreover, the EU has many policies relating to sports such as sports and competition law, and players’ rights etc. that I can use for further research in the field of Sports Law.

     

    anujaya-krishna-1

    Please tell us a little about your academic schedules and the general experience of studying abroad? How different do you think it is from the pedagogy that Indian Universities follow?

    The schedule is usually packed. While there may not be too many classes in a day, the duration of the classes is more. Also, there is a lot of extra reading required to be done and presentations to be made in class etc. Since the lectures are rather interactive in nature, one is required to read and come prepared for the class. Also, being in an international environment gives you great exposure- not only in terms of studies but also respecting and learning about various cultures and countries. I am also happy that I got to learn a bit of German here!

    I would say that the level of interaction and participation in classes is more here but at the end of the day, I don’t think it is to do with ‘Indian’ or ‘foreign’ universities so much as it is to do with individuals and the will to actively participate. You can make the most out of your education if you want, in whichever part of the world you are!

     

    What is your view on the rapidly growing trend of Indian students pursuing their masters abroad? Do you think there is a resurgence of the brain drain?

    I think if there is a programme of study that interests one and is feasible, then one must pursue it. As regards the question of brain drain, I sincerely hope there is none and quite frankly, it is hard to comment because it is matter of personal choice and circumstances, and putting everyone under a label would be unfair.

     

    What would be your parting message to the law students?

    Just one quote by Ralph Waldo Emerson (something I got as a farewell present in university) – “Do not go where the path may lead, go instead where there is no path and leave a trail.”

  • Anirudh Hariani on environment law litigations, LL.M. from Cornell and research skills

    Anirudh Hariani on environment law litigations, LL.M. from Cornell and research skills

    Anirudh Hariani graduated from GLC, Mumbai in 2011, with a BLS.LL.B degree. He later went on to pursue his LL.M from Cornell Law School. During his law schools he had the opportunity to intern with many legal luminaries, and in the midst of all these he had managed to score highly on research work and publications.

    We have asked him to share:

    • How research and publications helped him gain admission to Cornell Law School.
    • His experience interning with major Independent counsels.
    • Experience in environment law litigations and working on pro bono.
    • Law school experience at GLC, Mumbai.

     

    Please tell our readers, what is it that motivated you to take up law right after school?

    I’ve always been interested in two facets of law: argument and problem-solving. This stems from my school days when I participated in Model United Nations conferences. I also enjoy intellectually stimulating challenges, which one is faced with on a daily basis in our profession. My family background in law was also a strong influence on me.

     

    How was your law school experience at GLC, Mumbai?

    The big advantage of GLC is the fact that you can work while studying. Classes usually get over before noon, so most students take up full time or short-term internships during the year, which I found particularly useful. But this advantage may be diluted due to the recent Bar Council circular barring law students from doing internships during the academic year. The impact, if any, the notice will have on articled clerks intending to appear for the solicitors’ exam is also unclear.

    There’s no doubt that GLC has several deficiencies. Attendance at lectures is very low and the lectures themselves are conducted in a haphazard fashion. There are hardly any full time professors. But during my time there were a handful of highly regarded lecturers, including part-timers, whose lectures were always full. We had a professor who is now a Bombay High Court Judge, and other members of the legal fraternity used to lecture frequently. Their practical insights were invaluable.

    The proximity of GLC to the Bombay High Court, which is literally a stone’s throw away, does provide a conducive environment for students to take up litigation. But at the same time, Mumbai is the commercial hub of the country so you will find graduates taking up all kinds of law careers based on their interests.

     

    In GLC, guest lectures are organized on a fairly regular basis and extremely prominent luminaries are invited for the same. What role does that have to play when it comes to a student making his career choice?

    GLC has had a strong tradition of co curriculars, which are all student-run. During my time in college we organized an annual lecture series and had some fantastic speakers come to speak to us, including Mr. Soli Sorabjee, Mr. T. N. Andhyarujina, Mr. Anil Divan, Mr. Harish Salve and non-lawyers such as Dr. Shashi Tharoor etc. GLC, being the oldest law school in Asia, has produced many of the top lawyers in the country, over the years, so many of the speakers who would come to speak were alumni. The debating society would organize an annual debate on the steps of the Asiatic Library, which was a panel discussion with academics and policy makers, moderated by Mr. Aspi Chinoy, a senior advocate. During the D.M. Harish moot, GLC’s flagship moot, a Constitution (5-judge) bench of the Bombay High Court would preside the final rounds.

    These experiences of interacting with luminaries, and hearing them speak about their areas of expertise, or hearing their anecdotes while practicing, certainly develops passion in students’ minds. It’s not only theory that you learn, but also context and history, which motivates students greatly.

     

    anirudh-hariani-2You have done substantial amount of work and research in environmental law. What do you say about it as a field of study? You have also taken up pro bono litigations. What motivated you to take up these not so lucrative tasks?

    In India, despite having been practiced for many years environmental law has not developed into a viable means of full time employment for lawyers. The primary reason for this is that courts do not award exemplary damages, unlike in some countries, and in any case the Bar Council prohibits sharing of the proceeds of a case with the lawyer, so there is little or no incentive for lawyers to take up environmental law full time. Lawyers can’t, as a result, afford to work pro bono all the time.

    I have been involved in a few environmental matters during my time at Hariani & Co., including a major mining case, which was exciting and at the same time humbling experience, though not pro bono. On a smaller scale, I have worked pro bono with environment and animal rights activists, on matters which involve the animal welfare, in the Bombay High Court. The experience of doing such work is extremely rewarding as you can see the direct results of your work.

    I also helped update a book on environmental law, written by a leading senior advocate based in the Supreme Court. While researching for the same, it was remarkable to see the same handful of names being repeated in the cause title of Public Interest Litigations. It appears that there are a small but growing number of litigants taking up environmental causes such as deforestation, irregular development, etc. While environmental law is in its nascent stage in terms of litigation, there is no dearth of laws protecting the environment in India. The main problem is implementation.

    I eventually took up an environmental law course during my LL.M at Cornell. Despite environmental laws in the US being so radically different from Indian law, it was interesting to study the same from a purely academic perspective.

     

    Most of your litigation internships include ones under Advocate and Attorney General and includes late Mr. Vahanvati. Is there any special reason why you chose to work with independent counsels? Please tell us a bit about your internships.

    I chose to work with independent counsel to get a more holistic view of the law. Litigation is probably the purest form of law. With litigation one can come across all kinds of commercial and civil matters without being restricted to a particular area or niche (not that niche practice is uncommon). Working with counsel I vicariously experienced the thrill of appearing in court, which definitely increased my interest level in law per se.

    I was lucky to have worked with some very senior lawyers during my days at GLC. At different times, I interned with both the former, and present (prior to his appointment) Advocate General of Maharastra. Their preparation and thoroughness for matters taught me that there is no room for complacency in the profession, at the very top.

    I also worked with the late Mr. G. E. Vahanvati, former Attorney General for India, who was a very interesting person. He was a hands-on senior with interns. I was permitted to sit in his chamber and he would chat to me about his practice and his experiences at the bar – he too started his career in Mumbai. His general advice was that a student or young lawyer should make sure they learn something new each day. His advice, along with the high profile nature of his briefs, was extremely exhilarating for me, a fourth year intern. His untimely death was truly a loss for the profession.

    Through GLC students were sent to New Delhi, for judicial clerkships with Judges of the Supreme Court. Every lawyer / student must have dreamt at some point of time in their lives of working in the Supreme Court. For me it was no different. Having worked with the Attorney General, it was interesting to see the perspective from the other side of the bar. After court, I would go to the Judge’s house (a beautiful Lutyen’s bungalow) and do research work. It was exciting and somewhat intimidating knowing that your work may eventually appear as part of a judgment of the highest court of the land.

    I also interned with a Judge of the Bombay High Court in my final year, for a six month period. This was truly the icing on the cake, as I had grown accustomed to working in the Bombay High Court and was relatively comfortable in the environment.

     

    You have done an internship at Kanga & Co, which is one of the oldest law firms in India. How was your experience there?

    Kanga & Co. was my first internship as a law student at the end of my first year. Initially I was pretty clueless. But with the help of some good seniors and co-interns I learned quite a lot, even though we had not begun our proper law subjects at GLC.

    I remember that at one time, a partner required a co-intern and I to urgently draft a petition as he was travelling. Being completely fresh, we did our best with the information at hand. We didn’t know at the time that our first draft would eventually be converted into a full SLP which would be admitted in the Supreme Court!

     

    You have also interned in corporate law departments. How different was it?

    I interned with J Sagar Associates, Mumbai for one year, as a permanent intern/ paralegal. As I mentioned, apart from during exams, GLC permitted students to work through the year and many students took up long-term internships. As part of a mixed corporate and real estate team, I worked on several transactions, including performing due diligences etc. It was a proper corporate law experience. The environment was friendly and motivated, and I enjoyed working with the people there. The major take-away from my year at JSA was the large law firm culture, and the professionalism and efficiency of associates and partners which I tried to emulate. It was a good experience overall.

    Later on, I had a short stint with a medium-sized law firm in London, and my experience at JSA certainly helped prepare me for working with them. The work culture in the UK was more casual than Indian law firms. Partners would interact with interns and ‘trainee solicitors’ more casually, and would occasionally join them at the end of the week, for a drink at the pub.

    Prior to this, as a second year law student, I had also interned in the legal/ secretarial department of a large pharma company. Most of the people in the department were qualified company secretaries. It was my first brush with corporate law, prior to my JSA experience, although from the angle of the client and not the lawyer. It was a mixture of corporate compliances and reading up on company law from the CS angle, which I found quite interesting.

     

    You have been an avid writer and you have had many publications. How important do you now find your research skills?

    As a law student, I thoroughly enjoyed legal writing. Putting your thoughts down on paper not only cements your understanding of the topic, but allows you to go in-depth and to formulate your own analysis. I especially enjoyed researching on developing areas of law, such as copyright law. I always looked up to the GLC law review as a fresher, as I had heard seniors talking about it with reverence. That’s where I submitted my first legal paper, and luckily I was selected to be published.

    In my opinion, both legal writing and advocacy are equally important. But while mooting is given its due, legal writing is often overlooked. The emphasis should be equally on both.

    Even as a qualified lawyer, one is constantly preparing opinions or notes on one topic or the other. So legal research and writing skills are very important and are put to practical use. Also, academic writing establishes an in-depth understanding of that particular area of the law, which may not be the case when studying for exams or doing compulsory projects. Also, the satisfaction of seeing your name in print as a student is tremendous.

     

    After your graduation, you pursued LL.M from Myron Taylor Hall, Cornell University Law School. How helpful did your publications prove to be in gaining an admission there?

    I think my publications definitely helped me gain admission to Cornell Law School. Other things that the admissions officers look at are your statement of purpose, grades, work experience, etc.

    Having pre-existing research skills definitely helps when doing an LLM. In the first week of the LLM, we were given a tour on how to use Westlaw and LexisNexis. Having used Westlaw for an international moot and for articles, my integration was easier. Legal drafting on the other hand was completely different in the US. They have a very informal approach to drafting. While Indian contracts will run into several pages, a contract there would be more concise, informal and to the point. In fact, there was even a whole introductory course offered to LLM students on American legal writing.

     

    Along with research work, you were pretty active in other co curricular activities like being in OCs, debating, MUN etc. How did that part of law school affect your overall personality?

    Co curricular activities such as mooting, debating, MUN, being part of OCs, etc. are important to any law student’s overall experience, and to get to know people in college. I was very active in such activities in my first few years at GLC. My co curricular activities reduced as I got busier with internships.

    GLC has traditionally been a very good mooting school, but in recent years the emphasis is on national law schools. During my time we had some seniors who were fantastic mooters. Watching them moot and trying to emulate their successes was always what we aspired to do. With mooting I also had the chance to meet law students around the country, some of whom I kept in touch with. So, involving myself in mooting and other co curricular activities definitely impacted me positively.

     

    Finally, is there any tip you would like to give to our budding lawyers?

    Experiment as much as you can during your five years at law school. Try to develop your ancillary skills and soft skills while in law school, because you will need them during practice.

     

  • Sandeep Chilana on a career in taxation law and being Principal Associate at Amarchand

    Sandeep Chilana on a career in taxation law and being Principal Associate at Amarchand

    Sandeep Chilana graduated from Campus Law Centre, Delhi University in 2005. Thereafter, he practiced litigation at his hometown, in Rudrapur, and later joined AMSS in their tax team. He continues to work at AMSS, and with his expertise in tax law, he is presently a Principal Associate.

    We have invited him to share his experience and insights with us in building a career in tax law.

     

    How would you like to introduce yourself to our readers who are mainly law students and lawyers?

    Hi! to all the readers of SuperLawyer. I am Sandeep Chilana and I am currently working as a Principal Associate at Amarchand & Mangaldas. At Amarchand, I work with the Tax Team and specialize in indirect tax litigation and advisory services. It is pleasure to reach you all through this forum and share my thoughts and experiences.

    I was born and brought up in a small town in Uttaranchal, Rudrapur and I came to Delhi for my graduation in 1999. After graduating in commerce from Kirori Mal College, Delhi University in 2002, I went on to obtain my bachelor’s degree in Law from Campus law Centre, Delhi University in 2005.

    I started my career as a litigator in the chambers of Mr. Rajiv Bansal and worked with him for almost 2 years. Thereafter, I joined my father in Rudrapur who specialises in Income Tax & Sales Tax advisory and compliance services, more than a year. I joined Amarchand in 2008 and have been working in the tax team since then.

    I am passionate about my work and truly enjoy arguing before the courts and handling complex indirect tax issues. Devising an out of box solution or innovating structuring for clients within the realms of law gives me immense satisfaction.

     

    When and how did you decide to study law? Which universities did you consider for your legal studies? How did you settle for CLC, DU?

    [sociallocker] I would not say that law was a natural choice or I always wanted to be a lawyer. While in KMC, I was really interested in pursuing dramatic arts and theatre professionally. After graduation, I realised it was difficult to make a living out of theatre and wanted to have a Plan B to fall back on. Since my father is a practicing lawyer, law was a natural back up plan.

    At that time all my theatre rehearsals took place in Delhi. Therefore, I decided to settle for CLC Delhi University for pursuing law. It was during my days at law school that I developed a keen interest in the subject of law.

     

    Do you think being from a non-NLU has ever proved to be a hindrance for you? Many non-NLU students complain that they feel being discriminated against during career opportunities. What has been your experience?

    Not really. I strongly believe that our industry only respects technical expertise and everything else is secondary. It is possible that non-NLU students may feel discriminated at campus placement stage. However, from my experience, I want to tell them that in the long run what matters is their understanding of law, analytical abilities and professional integrity.

     

    Many lawyers say that the first year after graduation is the most difficult year for young lawyers. How was your first year after graduation? How did you learn the ropes and what were the biggest challenges you faced?

    First year after graduation is indeed most difficult year for us young lawyers. However, it is also the most important year of our profession. It is the year which decides whether we have the endurance to make a successful law professional.

    I started my career as a litigator in the chambers of Mr. Rajiv Bansal and worked with him for almost 2 years. That was undoubtedly the most defining period of my career.

    The first year was indeed difficult. I quickly realized that practicing law was very different from studying law. There was enormous work pressure and compensations were also nominal to keep us motivated. To top that, life in the courts was very unpredictable.

    Mr. Bansal reposed great confidence in me and unlike other 1st year associates I was getting lot of opportunities in the first year itself to independently appear before trial courts and handle miscellaneous hearing before High Court independently.

    My biggest challenge in the first year was time management and dealing with stage fright. Arguing before the courts was very different from moot courts and debate competitions in school and college and I needed to adjust quickly. Also, most of the new matters would come in evening with clients or circumstances insisting that the filings be made the very next day. Such short timelines required us to work through the nights to ensure filing the very next day and taught us the art of time management at a very early stage.

     

    You had started working at Bansal & Co. right after graduation, and thereafter you joined Chilana & Chilana Associates. How did you decide to shift from civil and commercial laws to tax laws? Please tell us about your work experience in both these places

    The work at Bansal & Co. was varied. In my short span of time spent there, I handled a variety of matters involving labour laws, family laws, intellectual property laws, land acquisition laws and tax laws etc.

    By end of 2006, I had decided to specialize in tax laws. There was no better place to learn the basics of tax laws than my father’s chambers in Rudrapur.

    Work at Chilana & Chilana Associates was highly focused and involved only tax work. My work at Chilana & Chilana Associates primarily involved preparing tax opinions on income tax and sales tax/VAT issues and drafting appeals or replies to notices.

    Working with my father taught me the importance of having an eye for detail in our profession. It was under him that I also understood the necessity of understanding the business of client. Whenever I got too technical, he reminded me that client needs a commercial solution and not a technical paper of legal provisions. I think this is the best advice a lawyer aspiring to specialize in tax laws can get.

     

    You left C&C to join AMSS in their indirect taxes wing. What motivated this shift? What does it take to get job at AMSS at that stage?

    When I left Mr. Bansal to join Chilana & Chilana Associates, I was hopeful that I would get opportunities to return to Delhi and work with main stream law firms or accounting firms, once I understood the basics of tax laws.

    AMSS happened by sheer chance as if it was destined. I was not aware that AMSS had recently started tax practice.  I was given an offer by one of the big four accounting firms to work in the indirect tax team. On the day I went to collect my offer letter, I bumped into an old college friend who had got a call from AMSS for an interview for a position in the tax team. She was very kind to forward my resume to AMSS HR and get me an interview as well, for the same position.

    Mr. Aseem Chawla, who was the tax partner at AMSS during the relevant time, interviewed me. The interview was primarily focused on work ethics, my litigation experience and the nature of tax assignments I have handled besides the obvious question, why I wanted to leave family practice.

    My father being a tax lawyer appeared to be the biggest challenge for me to crack that interview with AMSS. There was a presumption that sooner or later I would go back to join my father’s practice.

    However, Mr. Chawla identified with my point of view and the career path I had chalked out for myself. To my delight, I got a call from AMSS HR in the same week informing me about my selection. I was to join as a fresher associate in the Tax Team of AMSS.

    I guess my initial litigation experience coupled with my exposure to basics of tax laws worked in my favour. Also, my willingness to discount all my past experience to join as a fresher gave me an edge over the other candidates.

     

    Would you say your undergraduate B.Com degree has been helpful in your career? When did you actually experience the learning curve in tax law?

    Undoubtedly yes. It is almost impossible to specialise in tax laws without having the ability to decode financial statements and juggle with numbers. The B.Com degree gave me exposure to the accounting principles and made me affable to balance sheets and financials.

    I developed interest in tax laws while pursuing LL.B itself. I chose the optional paper of tax in my second year of law school and our professor Ms. Neeru Nakra ensured that everyone in the class enjoyed studying the seemingly boring tax laws. However, the actual learning curve in tax laws happened only after I joined Chilana & Chilana Associates.

     

    How do you say one can gain expertise in tax law? What does it take to be a good tax lawyer?

    The only way to gain experience in tax laws is to work with a tax lawyer or an accounting firm. We may not get an opportunity to work with a big firm directly but we must not lose hope. Hone your tax skills with independent practitioners or mid-level firms and wait for the right opportunity.

    Tax is a very dynamic subject. Hundreds of notifications and circulars are issued by the tax department every week. Tax laws get amended almost every year and the courts across India have different points of view on the same question of law. The only way one can be a good tax lawyer is by ensuring that you are constantly evolving and investing atleast 2 hours every week on knowledge management.

     

    Is the work significantly different from other transactional lawyers?

    Yes, practicing tax laws is very niche and significantly different from any other practice. Every litigation and advisory assignment is significantly different from the other. There are hardly any templates to start with. What differentiates a tax practice from regular transactional advisory work is that it never gets monotonous for a lawyer practicing tax laws.

     

    How much of your work does involve litigation, if at all?

    My work involves a good mix of litigation and advisory work. I have been appearing before various High Courts, Tribunals and Commissioners across the country on various indirect tax issues.

    Recently, I independently argued a very technical and high stake matter pertaining to taxability of domain name registration before the Customs, Excise & Service Tax Appellate Tribunal, Mumbai, and got a favourable order for client.

     

    Tell us a bit about work culture at AMSS tax team.

    Work culture at the AMSS Tax Team is highly competitive which induces a positive and productive environment. Most of the work handled by Tax Team at AMSS is very niche and high end, which continues to aspire and drive us towards professional excellence.

     

    People often complain about the highly skewed work-life balance at the top law firms. What is your workday like? How do you maintain your work-life balance?

    Being a lawyer is undoubtedly a high-stress career that demands far more than fair share of our time. Most of our assignments are urgent and require time bound delivery. Quite often than not, we end up spending more than 12 hours a day in our offices.  However, it is a conscious choice for most of us.

    One of the most important tools to manage work-life balance is time management, the ability to manage and keep a tab on the time and efficiencies, not only of your own but that of your team as well. I do try my best to regulate my time in the most efficient manner possible and spend quality time with my family. However, I must admit that my family understands the kind of pressures I work in and is really supportive of my professional commitments. Without their support, it would have been impossible for me to give my best to my profession.

     

    What would be your message to our young readers who want to pursue a career in tax laws?

    I would want to tell the young readers and budding lawyers that while their seniors would provide them sufficient exposure and training on the subject matter of their interest, the ultimate responsibility for their professional development rests on them only.

    It is not uncommon to feel disoriented in the first year of being a tax lawyer. Unlike other laws, tax laws are highly complex and require sound understanding of basic principles before you can start understanding and enjoying the complexity of the issues involved. Be patient till the time you are sure that you have mastered the basic principles.

    If time permits, a budding tax lawyer must consider attending training sessions and coaching classes organized by Institute of Chartered Accountants of India (ICAI) on tax laws for aspiring Chartered Accountants. These are really helpful in understanding the basic concepts of tax laws and make a great foundation for any tax professional.

    Once the basic understanding of tax laws is in place, it is important to remain focused and constantly invest time on self-development and knowledge management. It is also important to master the art of understanding the commercial reasons for any transaction to be able to provide a better solution to client.

    Besides legal expertise, it is important to develop the work ethics which are paramount for any professional to be successful, most importantly being, determination, patience and integrity.[/sociallocker]

  • Talha Salaria on founding ‘Lawyers at Work’, expertise in Corporate Law and building a career

    Talha Salaria on founding ‘Lawyers at Work’, expertise in Corporate Law and building a career

    Talha Salaria graduated from NLSIU, Bangalore. She has been a corporate lawyer for most of her career. She is the founder of Lawyers at Work.

    In this interview, we asked her about:

    • Her experiences as a founder of ‘Lawyers at Work’
    • Her experiences of practicing as a corporate lawyer.
    • Internship experiences and their importance in a student’s career

     

    When did you decide to take up law as a career?

    I didn’t choose law – I think law chose me. While I do have a few lawyers in my family, most of them went on to join the bureaucracy as IAS officers.

    I studied in Welham Girls High School, Dehradun. Since we were living together as boarders, we used to hear about various opportunities that are available for higher studies. I knew that I wanted to do a professional course and hence applied for the entrance exam of NLSIU, to have another option.

     

    You have been a corporate lawyer for most of your career. What prompted you to take up corporate law? Share with us some experiences which helped you to shape your career choices.

    When I started working I wanted to be financially independent. Unfortunately, litigation did not offer that opportunity since at that time (and maybe even now), it did not pay much, atleast initially. Moreover, I really enjoyed the atmosphere of corporate law firms. Most of my internships were with JSA where we were a small team, very focussed and yet we had a lot of fun. It was a great atmosphere and a very good platform for learning – I wanted to be a part of it.

     

    You started your career at J.Sagar Associates where you worked for six years. Thereafter, you co-founded MMB Legal. Were you always keen on having your own establishment?

    I was not keen on having my own establishment as such but over a period of time, I felt I had the risk appetite and the confidence to be able to do it. I do not necessarily make detailed long term plans but when I see an opportunity, I make sure that I respond to it immediately. The markets were good, the adrenalin was high – there was nothing stopping us!

     

    Almost five years after co-founding MMB Legal, you established your own law firm named “Lawyers at Work”. What prompted you to make this choice and what made this shift possible?Any specific reasons why you chose the name “Lawyers at Work”?

    I wanted to push myself to the limit – it is very challenging to set up on your own and it was a challenge that I wanted to explore.

    Choosing the name took a long time – I did not want to name the firm after myself – I was very clear about that. After much thought, we stumbled on a name that sounded good and exciting.

     

    Please tell us something about “Lawyers at Work”. What is a workday like?

    The key aspects that we focus on is learning and being a facilitator to the business of our clients rather than a cog in the wheels – therefore, we are very quality and timeline driven. At the same time, we like to ensure that everyone gets their weekend’s off and some personal time on a daily basis. There are very few rules – the idea is to take ownership of the work and also your conduct so that people come together as a team rather than based on hierarchies.

     

    What were the initial challenges you faced setting up “Lawyers at Work”? Having established a law firm earlier would you say it was easier for you the second time?

    It was definitely easier to set up the second time. Infact, MMB Legal was a great learning experience and a stepping stone for setting up L.A.W. The main challenge that we have faced right from the start is getting good people and attracting good talent. Our clients have been very supportive and we have not had any concerns regarding getting work, which is the typical concern for a start up.

     

    What is the most challenging or stressful part of being a founding partner of a law firm? Is it easy to have a work-life balance?

    The challenging part is to play so many different roles in a given day – administrator, rainmaker, mentor, lawyer – just to name a few. It keeps you on your toes. Given the fierecely competitive environment, especially in the Bangalore market, one needs to be constantly up to mark and creative in ensuring that you build yourself up brick by brick. I have a great work-life balance through it all – it is possible to have one with good time management and multi-tasking.

     

    Please share your experience starting up with a law firm for the benefit of law students and young lawyers who want to start up on their own.

    I would strongly urge young lawyers to focus on learning for the initial 10 years. The legal profession is a lot about experience and expertise which cannot be learnt in 1 or 2 years. Ideally, the young lawyers should litigate for atleast a couple of years and if they are in a corporate set up, they should focus on learning rather than aiming for the big figure salaries. Once the foundation is set, it is easy to set up and build on it later.

     

    The trend is now on gathering various internship experiences at different places. Was the scenario same while you were pursuing law? How is internship helpful for a law student?

    This trend was there even at our time. Internships are what you make of them. We have had interns who have come only for the sake of recording the internship on their resume and others, who, with the focussed work that they have done, have treated it as a rich learning experience. I remember when I was interning, I did my first due diligence and it was an eye opener for what was to come in future.

     

    Does your law firm take interns? If yes, then what is the application procedure? What do you look for in a prospective applicant?

    Yes, we take interns. The applicant can write to admin@lawyersatwork.in. We generally take one intern at a time to ensure that it is a fulfilling experience for the person.

     

    What would be your parting message to law students who want to be successful in corporate law?

    Hardwork, dedication and the right attitude will go a long way in being successful, and this applies to a career in corporate law as well.

     

  • Jayantika Ganguly on being a corporate lawyer at AMSS, and Khaitan & Co.

    Jayantika Ganguly on being a corporate lawyer at AMSS, and Khaitan & Co.

    Jayantika Ganguly graduated from WB National University of Juridical Sciences, Kolkata, back in 2008. She has thereafter worked at Amarchand & Mangaldas & Suresh A Shroff & Co (“AMSS”) for more than three years, and is currently working as a Senior Associate at Khaitan & Co. (“KCo”).

    We asked her to share her journey from being a law student to being a corporate lawyer.

     

    Given that most of our readers are law students and young lawyers, how will you introduce yourself to them?

    “Hello, Lawdroids! Greetings from a sample of Lawdroid Ice-cream Sandwich!”

    <Disclaimer: I do not own the terms “Lawdroids” or “Ice-cream Sandwich” and these are merely being used for representative purposes.>

     

    Back in 2003, NUJS was a fairly new institute. What motivated you to choose law as a career?

    It might sound a tad fickle, but law was simply the most interesting option for me at that stage. Law was exciting and a heady blend of the secure and intrepid – which just felt right.Perhaps a side-effect of growing up on detective stories!

    NUJS was fairly new back then (we were the fourth batch) – but we had the legendary Dr Madhava Menon as the Vice Chancellor! The rank #3 in the entrance exam helped, too.

     

    In retrospect how would you compare NUJS with other premier law institutions of the country?

    NUJS is undoubtedly one of the best. As an alumnus, my hindsight might be a little more rose-tinted than reality – but NUJS did a great job of not only training us in law, but also preparing us for our professional lives. The courses, internships, projects, moots, extra-curricular activities – it was all great. I think NUJS might have one of the most active student populations amongst the law schools. It certainly gave us a twinkle in our eye and a swagger in our stride.

     

    How did your recruitment at AMSS take place? How do you recall your anticipation of the job offer?

    Campus recruitment – our Placement Committee did a spectacular job. The procedure was fairly standard – CVs were sent, shortlisted students were called in for a Group Discussion, and further selected students were called in for individual interviews. I remember frantically reading the Companies Act before the scheduled date – but in the end, it wasn’t required. We were tested for our aptitude, oratory and analytical skills.

     

    Many lawyers would say that the actual learning takes place in the years of practice. How far would you say it is true? What was the case in your situation?

    I would take that statement with a grain of salt – but then, this is my personal opinion. I feel the internships and the way they are structured in law schools are very advantageous and we are not caught unawares upon joining a firm/company. You study a subject, and then you get to apply your knowledge during your summer internship. I certainly learnt a lot this way. Obviously we do not learn everything in college and during internships – but we definitely gain a general idea of how things function, and that is what ultimately influences the decision on where to work.

     

    You worked at AMSS for more than three years before joining KCo. Being the largest law firm in India, how did it shape up your work profile?

    At AMSS, I worked in the Project Finance team. Headline-grabbing deals and late nights were the norm. It was a fantastic learning experience – fast and glamorous.

     

    After having worked at AMSS for more than 3 years how did the shift to KCo take place?

    The move to Kolkata, for family reasons, was the operative factor. By a happy coincidence, KCo Kolkata was looking to recruit and I got lucky!

     

    What does your current work profile at KCo consist of? How is a typical workday like?

    At KCo, I am a part of the Corporate Team, so I get to work on a wider range of transactions here. A typical work day would have a few phone calls, a meeting or two thrown in, some discussion sessions and a lot of emails, document review and drafting.
    jayantika-ganguly-2

    It’s been six years of your work experience in corporate law. What would you say contributes to the high attrition rate of the top law firms?

    There are a fair number of reasons. A lot of lawyers wish to work for a few years before going in for their Masters degree. Some move either out of a desire for change or for personal reasons. In my opinion, though, the biggest culprits behind high attrition rates are burnouts and breakdowns. The frantic pace and glory of big deals feels amazing at the beginning – but gradually, it gets exhausting. Health problems start cropping up – and that is when most people leave. Some are able to adapt, some are able to change their lifestyle and continue. This is more common with first jobs, I think, because as students, we are unable to accurately gauge what we are getting into – we are too star-struck. Also, the elation of the first all-nighter, the euphoria of a successful closing, the excitement of seeing your deal in a newspaper, the feeling of being ‘important’ – these are all quite addictive, so, more often than not, we tend to ignore our health concerns until something goes seriously wrong.

     

    In these six years you must have guided a lot of interns at AMSS and KCo. What do you think differentiates a good intern from the rest?  How can an intern make a positive impression in the limited time they have?

    The best interns I have seen are prompt and meticulous. The characteristics of a good intern are pretty much the same as the characteristics of a good associate. Take your deadlines seriously. If you don’t have the bandwidth to take on additional assignments, say it upfront and request an extended deadline if possible – if not, check with the senior for priorities. Listen to instructions carefully – ask questions if you do not understand. Be meticulous. No one will penalise an intern for not knowing an obscure detail of law – but silly mistakes, shoddy submissions are not good. Do your research well and be prepared to answer questions on the assignment you have been given.

     

    Life for lawfirmites can be very hectic at times. What is your take on work-life balance? How do you unwind?

    Work-life balance is very important to me. I think it is a somewhat misunderstood concept. Work-life balance does not mean that you leave your time-sensitive transaction hanging and wander off because your work-hours are over – that is simple irresponsibility. What it means is that you do your work to the best of your ability, but you also keep some time to yourself, indulge in something you are passionate about, and you also keep an eye on your wellbeing. It is about finding a passion beyond your work and making time for it. It will have a positive effect on your work efficiency as well, as you will be more organised and work down the priority list.

    There are plenty of unwinding activities I indulge in. I love travelling – be it for work or leisure – and I try to travel as much as I can. I also fancy (or, perhaps, delude) myself to be a bit of a writer. I like to explore new cuisines and new languages. I am an avid Sherlockian as well – and a fan of music, art, dance and drama.

     

    Many young law students want to have a flourishing career in corporate law. What would be your advice to the future corporate lawyers?

    Other than thoroughly studying the corporate laws, keep abreast of the market news. Being up-to-date on information as well as laws is important. Try and intern with companies as well as law firms – this will give you a well-rounded idea about how things work on both sides. Hone your drafting and negotiation skills – this will form a major chunk of your work hours.

  • Dr. Panayotis Protopsaltis on expertise in International Investment Law, the legal profession, experience in teaching and interaction with students

    Dr. Panayotis Protopsaltis on expertise in International Investment Law, the legal profession, experience in teaching and interaction with students

    Dr. Panayotis Protopsaltis is a Greek national and he is presently a visiting faculty at the GNLU, Gandhinagar. He is a reputed international scholar having expertise in International Investment, Cross Border Transaction and Dispute Resolution. It has been a great experience meeting him and talking with him at length about the pedagogy of different institutions and universities he has attended.

    Conversing with him has been a great experience and almost a tour through many European Institutes, therefore I took this opportunity to share his insights and experience with our readers.

     

    First of all, please tell us a bit about yourself. What is your current work profile?

    I studied law at the National and Kapodistirian University of Athens, Greece, at the University of Paris II (Panthéon-Assas) and at the University of Paris I (Panthéon-Sorbonne) from where I hold a doctoral degree in public international law. I have conducted research in the framework of various research centres and delivered lectures at universities in France and in Greece on international investment law. I am also a practicing lawyer, member of the Athens Bar Association. Since the beginning of my career, I was involved in transborder transactions, originally in the introduction of mobile telephony in Greece and subsequently in some major investment projects in Europe and in the Middle East. In the recent years, I have been retained to advise various public and private institutions on international investment law related matters.

     

    How did you decide to pursue law? In India a lawyer is still looked at with caution and doubt, how is the scenario in Greece?

    [sociallocker] As is the case with many people studying law, when I graduated from school, I did not know exactly what I wanted to do. I graduated in 1987 and information one could obtain at the time was much more limited than information available today. I decided to study law because a law degree offers tremendous opportunities for work in a number of sectors. Civil service or administrative work in international organisations is one solution, career in legal professions, law professor, judge or attorney, is another. I was perhaps also influenced by a number of family friends that had also studied law. When I began my studies I was fascinated by law and tried to improve my knowledge and skills, nothing else mattered.

    I have heard many times and in many countries that lawyers are looked at with caution and doubt. I am also familiar with the various jokes about lawyers. However, so far in my career in Europe I have never experienced caution and doubt. I am therefore not convinced that this assumption is correct.

     

    From where did you study your undergraduate degree in law? Please tell us about the academic structure of your undergraduate degree.

    I graduated from the National and Kapodistrian University of Athens, the major law school in Greece. Curricula in Greek law schools in the late 1980’s included four years of study and no specialisation. Lectures were delivered to all students, often 250 persons in an amphitheatre, by professors themselves or by their assistants and presence was not compulsory. Professors delivering lectures were rarely asking questions to their audience and vice versa. A free of charge manual was given to every student –usually written by the professor. Of course, there were no moot contests and student exchange programs, some students participated in small working groups and could present their work but this was the exception rather than the rule. Some exams were particularly difficult to pass and students had to sit twice or even more.

    Lectures were delivered in Greek and focused on Greek law but law school libraries have impressive collections of German, French and English books. This is because most professors had studied in Germany (private law), France (public law) and in the UK and the U.S.A. and a number of professors of Greek law schools hold permanent posts also in other European Universities. Greek students were therefore in close contact with European and U.S. bibliography.

     

    You earned a Masters and Doctorate from University of Paris. How was your experience there?

    I had already completed my vocational training at the Athens Bar Association and I was a full time lawyer in Athens but I was always interested in international law and in research. I therefore decided to enrol at the LLM of international economic law at the University of Paris I, recommended to me by one of my professors. Depending on the subject Germany, France and the UK were the normal destinations for young degree holders wishing to pursue further study.

    I did not know what to expect but found instead the good old continental model but students were now expected to do research on their own and actively participate at lectures. I was admitted for a research degree and so completing a doctoral thesis was ultimate aim. Doctoral research was long and slow, in France students rarely completed their thesis in less the five years and were working as assistants at various universities or managed to obtain posts in international organisations. A limited number of students gained scholarships and I was one of them. Doctoral research was therefore undertaken only by a limited number of passionate students.

    Interestingly enough, the French government at the time gave incentives to students to pursue further studies. This was because France had high unemployment and young people could not be absorbed by the market. Many unemployed chose to pursue further studies. This created a market for academic services, the need for more university professors and a generation of very well educated people.

    I benefited a lot from my stay in France. Along with my work on my doctoral thesis I had the opportunity to meet with some of the most important authorities in international law, participate in research groups and conferences, gain experience in teaching, to be involved in the work of international organisations and to some major international projects. I also benefited from the cultural events, museums and lectures on history and art, so abundant in Paris.

     

    You speak German, French and Turkish apart from Greek and English. How do languages help in your work and what are the difficulties in learning in a foreign language?

    I learned English and French from a very young age, it was very common -and still is- in Greece to learn two or three foreign languages and master them by the age of 18. I learned German and Turkish later on, as a university student. I made the effort to learn because languages are one of the most useful tools in everyday life and in academic research in Europe. Monolingual academics are usually at a great disadvantage.

    Students should not be afraid of studying abroad in a foreign language. First of all, their presence in the foreign country will allow them to acquire easily the necessary linguistic skills for communication. Then, post-graduate studies will learn all necessary legal terminology but as they have already read law, it will be easy for them to understand the corresponding meaning. Then, they may also seek help from native speakers. Foreigners at the beginning are of course at a disadvantage compared to native speakers but rarely post-graduate students fail solely because of poor linguistic skills.

     

    Would you recommend your students to pursue Masters and doctorate in continental Europe?

    I think Europe hosts some of the best universities of the world and students have a lot to learn from their presence there. Not only they will benefit from interaction with some of the most renowned academics of the world but they will also see a different way of work and approach to scientific problems.

    Continental universities follow a different system based on students’ responsibility. In that, the university differs from high school, students are given limited guidance, they are required to work on their own. Continental universities still favour theoretical analysis over practice and studies are not job-oriented, this is the essence of European academia. A drawback is perhaps that inter-disciplinary studies are not so common.

     

    What attracted you to research in international investment law?

    Originally, I took special interest in the problems of regulation of the Multinational Enterprises but I soon moved to examine the problems of international investment law. This shift in interest war normal since the two problems are inter-related. I was also lucky to have two mentors, Prof. Patrick Juillard and the late Prof. ArgyriosFatouros, both authorities in international investment law, who encouraged me to explore international investment law questions.

     

    panayotis-protopsaltis-2

    How has your experience in India and GNLU been so far?

    I came to India for a short visit two years ago, liked the country and wished to learn more about its institutions and its people. The invitation at the GNLU was a formidable opportunity for me to see Indian academia and meet with Indian academics and students. I delivered two courses, on the law of multinational enterprises and on international investment law and I am very happy with the interest that my audience takes on the topics.

     

    Students may be indifferent or disinterested in the subject being taught. How do you deal with these and revive interaction among students?

    Your question assumes that professor has to do something for indifferent or disinterested students. Well, I am afraid this is not the case. First, because there are always indifferent or disinterested students at class. Second, because, assuming that students have chosen to study law, they should be interested in the subjects being taught. Third, because students’ duty to learn does not depend on professors’ performance. Students cannot use professor’s poor performance as an excuse for not learning. There are other procedures to sanction professor’s poor performance, if there is one.

    I think that the professor should prepare himself to deliver a lecture and that the lecture is in some respects like a theatre play, the professor being the actor, the students being the audience. Some jokes and stories may help to attract students’ attention, participation of students at the lectures also but the professor must never turn lectures into a discussion forum. Academic conferences and research groups offer many opportunities to students to interact and express their opinion. I also believe that some professors are more inspiring than others but, alas, there is no objective criterion for that. I finally think that we all have to suffer from boring speeches or speakers if we are to learn how to make our lectures interesting.

    As I have already said, students have a duty to themselves, to their parents and to the academic community to learn. Students who are disinterested have again a duty to themselves, to their parents and to the academic community to explain why and in case they realise are generally disinterested in the topic of their study or in studies in general, to have the courage to change the topic or quit studies altogether, immediately. Otherwise, they will spend many unhappy years and will perform poorly at the university. In addition, they will spend valuable resources, their personal time, the money of their parents, the facilities of the university, the time of their professors that could be used more productively elsewhere.

     

    What would be your advice to students on performing well in academics?

    Performing well at university requires understanding the system of academic study. Method of reading, exercise in legal writing and interaction with other students and professors in the academic community are very important. Now some students obtain better marks than others. This may be due to a number of factors, insufficient preparation, failure to understand, failure to express themselves, to name just a few. Students have to learn from their errors and correct them. Yet, the key to success is, I think, genuine interest. Genuinely interested students are always very successful at university because they do a further effort for the sake of learning and adopt this inquisitive approach to problems which is a prerequisite for academic excellence.

     [/sociallocker]

  • Debolina Saha on work at AMSS, quitting it to join Ashurst LLP and work at Allen & Overy

    Debolina Saha on work at AMSS, quitting it to join Ashurst LLP and work at Allen & Overy

    debolina-saha-1Debolina Saha graduated from NUJS, Kolkata. She worked at AMSS before getting appointed to Ashurst LLP, London. Currently, she is an associate of Allen & Overy based out of Hong Kong.

    In this interview she talks about:

    • Work experience at the largest Indian law firm
    • Appointment at Ashurst LLP without the necessity of masters in law
    • Working on tight schedules and time management
    • Work experience at a Magic Circle firm, Allen & Overy

     

    What impressed upon you the idea to study law? Being fairly a new concept and a new university how did you decide to pursue law from NUJS?

    I chose law for very different reasons. I always aspired to join the civil services and so thought at my undergraduate level it would be best to take up subjects that would be closely linked to subjects that I would be dealing with on a daily basis as a civil servant—and of course then the natural choice was the study of law.

    The fact that Dr. N.R. Madhava Menon would be the vice-chancellor of the new law school in Kolkata, was enough to strike both a chord of trust and optimism that NUJS too would soon be in similar leagues with the National Law School of India University at Bangalore and joining NUJS would definitely turn out to be one of the best decisions of life.

    Also NUJS came with the added advantage of being just 10 minutes walking distance away from my home -so I guess it was hard to say “no” to NUJS and it was the best way of savouring a few more years within the comforts of home, before a job required me to move out of Kolkata.

     

    How did you fare in your academics at NUJS? Would you say a great CGPA is a necessity to kickstart a good career in the legal profession?

    I missed out being on the top 10 student rank list of my class but was jointly ranked 11, in a class of 66 students. Doing well in academics was personally imperative to me. I come from a very simple family and being a first time lawyer in my family with no big names to back me up or provide me with references-I felt the only way for me to put my best foot forward was by means of doing well in academics.

    CGPA, does not reflect your level of intelligence or capability but what it does reflect to a person who first examines your curriculum vitae is that you believe in excelling, putting your best, are a focussed individual and have a higher degree of perseverance than the rest—-all of which qualities are highly valued at the job front.

    Sadly it is the truth, but CGPAs (which show your grade for a five year period and not just one semester) often gives the interviewer (who is a total stranger) a first impression about a candidate. But CGPA alone does not determine everything. Your personality, extra-curricular achievements and other volunteering activities—in short a “consistent” track record of achievements all put together, add to giving you that much needed ‘kickstart’ at a good legal career.

    Once into the profession, your CGPA really does not make any difference. I know of some fantastic lawyers who are doing very well in their profession but cannot boast of high CGPAs at law school.

     

    Right after graduation you got appointed at AMSS. What had contributed towards this appointment? What did you take away from a year long work experience at the largest Indian law firm?

    Amarchand gave me the strongest platform to start my career with and a brand name to pride myself—–an opportunity for which I would always be grateful. A consistent track-record of achievements at law school, a good group discussion round and an interview, I guess all contributed to securing a place with India’s largest law firm.

    Amarchand taught me that here was no replacement for hard work and to be honest it laid the foundation for my years to come and develop as a lawyer. Even as a fresher since I was deeply involved in transactions, at a very early stage of my career I got a bird’s eye overview of what my future as a lawyer would be. So while making my next move to Ashurst LLP in London, I was well prepared for the ‘life of a lawyer’—a life involving a whole lot of travelling, application of law, multitasking, dealing with stress, client management, working long hours and of course when not at work learning to make the most of leisure.

     

    Soon after completing a year at AMSS you started work at Ashurst LLP, London. How did this transition happen? Did you get an offer or did you apply for Ashurst?

    I have always been a strong believer of the fact that during one’s initial stages in the legal career, once should try and meddle with as many areas of law as possible before finally deciding the area that one would like to focus on.

    Unfortunately, during my time, we did not have a “rotation system” to various departments that many Indian law firms now offer their fresh associates. Having already been placed in India’s leading law firm, the natural way forward for me was to branch out beyond India. That was when I applied to Ashurst LLP, in London for a position in their international finance team. I was fortunate to have an associate role offered to me as opposed to a training contract. Generally with merely a single jurisdiction qualification (in my case India), only a year’s work experience in an Indian law firm and no master degree in law, one should be fortunate to just secure a training contract with a city-law firm in the United Kingdom.

     

    How different or similar was your work profile at Ashurst? What did you take away from your experience at Ashurst? How did your stint at Ashurst help you in making an ideal work profile?

    My role at Ashurst was more tilted towards the banking side, while at Amarchand I was a capital markets lawyer and the then Disclosure and Investor Protection Guidelines earned me my bread and butter.

    At Ashurst I was grappling on a daily basis with a host of new laws, never-heard-before terms that the Loan Market Association was throwing at me with every new read of the know-how documents and generally getting up to speed with a silver circle firm’s manner of drafting, various United Kingdom’s legislation, and associates who were already more experienced in this particular area of law. At least while, at Amarchand, certain laws and terms looked familiar and were taught at law school.

    Looking back now- my first four months at Ashurst taught me how it was more important to know where to find the law than what the law is, it taught me to be calm even when being out of one’s comfort zone, be willing to learn new things and most importantly being eager to experience the unknown. Though it can be daunting at first, once you cross the initial jitters, you would want to give yourself a pat on your back.

    Working for any international law firm especially a magic or a silver circle law firm goes a long way in opening up many channels of great opportunities for you. It is not just the work that you do in such law firms that help you secure better opportunities-the soft skills that you inculcate while working in such an environment can do wonders for your career.

    Amongst others your prospective interviewer very well gauges that having worked in an international law firm previously, you are a candidate who quickly adjusts to new unfamiliar surroundings, naturally adapts to people from varied cultures, you are sensitive to the needs of international clients and know how to conduct yourself in a demeanour that befits an international law firm. Needless to say, all this helps in making an ideal work profile for oneself.

     

    Generally it’s a notion that magic circle and silver circle firms take associates only from among post-graduates having expertise in corporate law. How far would you say this is true? What would you say substituted such a necessity in your favour for your recruitment at Ashurst?

    As a general concept, this may be true but I now see quite trend amongst a few English law firms picking up students from their campus recruitments in India. Also, some even offer extended internship opportunities over summer breaks to pick up some promising students as prospective trainees.

    All said and done, I would still say that for those of you, who think you are good to be in any of the international law firms and have well-balanced curriculum vitae with a consistent track record of achievements, be confident enough to apply. Remember being qualified in the foreign jurisdiction that you would be applying to is a great bonus, so you may consider adding this feather to your hat before seriously considering an application attempt. Also be perseverant and do not get disheartened with any rejection. Always remember that competition to these positions is fierce, and seats are very few, so if not this time, you will surely make it around at some point.

    I was cautiously advised by many to gain a few more years of experience in India and then after completing a master degree from a university abroad, make my way to an international law firm. That route seemed too long a wait at that point of time and besides a master in law would cost me a fortune-a sum that was beyond my reach at that point. So I thought, of giving an honest attempt at my Ashurst interview.

    In my feedback I was told that my eagerness, coherent and clear manner of speaking, general replies to interview questions with calm and composure and my sheer willingness to try new things and move into a part of the world where I did not know many people-convinced them, that I would be a quick learner at the job and a well-fit in my team.

    Over the years, I have learnt that what most international law firm interviews are geared to know if you will be a “well-fit” into the team and be happy as a person in new surroundings. Of course, knowing the law is important, but what is more important is that you are able to “find” that law and perhaps even more important is that you have a pleasant personality.

     

    After Ashurst, you worked at a couple of Indian law firms before deciding to join Allen&Overy, Hong Kong. Would you say the work experience garnered at Ashurst helped in your recruitment at A&O?

    Yes, most definitely but what I think worked in my favour was my qualification as a Solicitor, England and Wales. Having a widely accepted qualification goes a long way in securing a position with any international law firm.

    Besides law firms abroad look for individuals, who do more than just practice law. With the little time that we as lawyers have, at the end of the day it really looks good if your profile shows you as a holistic individual. So any publications, attempts to pursue serious hobbies, voluntary work, teaching assignments, any post-law school-added qualifications and every participation towards promoting any event on law would be highly appreciated.

     

    How diverse is your current workplace at Hong Kong now? Where do the associates hail from?

    One of the main reasons, while I personally enjoy working in an international law firm is its sheer diversity-both in terms of work and people. Though we are based in Hong Kong, we have people from all over the world. I will not be exaggerating in the least when I say that the office feels like a hub of global citizens. To name just a few we have associates from Sydney, The Netherlands, Hong Kong, United Kingdom, Thailand, The United States of America, Manila, Beijing, Korea, India and the list just keeps growing, depending on who joins us on “international secondments” from our offices abroad.

     

    How has been your experience working on tight schedules, meeting deadlines and with work-life balance?

    It is all about managing time and client expectations. As you grow in the profession, you become better at both the tasks, which leaves you more time for your personal pursuits. Besides, you learn to live life on the mantra of working hard when required and making the most of your holidays.

    It is important though to learn how to “switch off” and just enjoy yourself when on holidays. I personally don’t think that working on tight schedules or meeting deadlines should bother any lawyer-if one “enjoys” working as a lawyer. Trust me, the days when you have lesser work you realise how much you miss drafting, being across the negotiation table, or in short the constant adrenaline rush.

    Having said that, I think I must emphasise that those of you who are serious about joining law firms please be prepared for long hours at work, demanding clients, work on weekends and graveyard shifts (in the literal sense of the term) and a very competitive environment which may often leave you with very little time for yourself and your family, at least during your initial years as a professional.

     

    You have had the opportunity to judge the 12th Red Cross International Humanitarian Law Moot. What did you specifically look for in the mooters? How was the overall experience, being a general rounds judge at a prestigious moot?

    Well, I have always believed that if you are unable to put down complicated facts in a simple, coherent and clear manner, you really have not understood the moot problem. It is important that you understand the ‘facts’ clearly. So I was looking forward to see how mooters clearly explained me the facts and also applied the law to these facts.

    I was a little surprised when I saw how very well prepared the students were on the law but missed out on certain factual information, which perhaps cost them a few points but served them as a good reminder for their forthcoming rounds, to clearly brush up on facts which may seem insignificant at the first glance. Further a slow pace of talking, calm composure, clarity of voice and thought, and most importantly standing firm on arguments as opposed to readily conceding to the judge’s point of view helped me mark my score sheets for the team.

    Judging the top quality moot, with participants from all over the world was, needless to say, an exhilarating experience. I personally got to learn a lot from the students too and hopefully will get an invite again to hone my judging skills at the 13th Red Cross International Humanitarian Law Moot too.

     

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    In between your schedules you have also managed to take not one but two clinical credit courses at NUJS. Tell us something about the courses and why you chose to do them? How has been your experience in teaching?

    I wanted students to make the most of their corporate internships and training contracts, starting day one itself. This was possible only if students were already familiar with certain integral, key, practical and basic terminologies used in day to day capital market, banking and finance and general corporate transactions. Most often what is taught in law schools is mostly theoretical law and students often fail to link this knowledge to their job.

    I wanted the students to be confident and know what they were doing while at their first job or during their internships. Sometimes it can take up to a couple of months or more for even a first year associate, to figure his or her way around a transaction and know exactly how and where his or her “piece” of work fits into the transaction. The aim of the courses I offered were to mainly provide the students with a chart of the various legs of a transaction, make them familiar with the manner in which due diligence was conducted and with certain terms used in loans transactions in the United Kingdom.

    As regards my teaching experience, I must admit I had my own set of apprehensions. I was forewarned as to how attendance would be low, students irregular and I might have to spend most of my time disciplining the students than teaching my proposed course.

    However, I was very pleasantly surprised with a class of regular attentive and enthusiastic students who left no stone unturned in getting the most out of the class and asking me some very intelligent and well thought out questions.

    What I personally understood from this experience is that if law teaching is coupled with practical anecdotes and the law itself is explained in simple, lucid and clear language with instances where such law may be applied, students are eager to learn and absorb such knowledge.

     

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    You have also traveled to the Philippines to help support the people affected Typhoon Haiyan for fundraising and other activities. How did you contribute? What other volunteering opportunities have you been involved with?

    A few of us from our law firm traveled to the city of Bacolod in Philippines earlier this year, to help build toilets for some families affected by the Typhoon Haiyan. I was most humbled by the three-day experience. Yes, you heard that correctly-we built “toilets”!

    At the end of the trip, I must confess I was more proud of my bricklaying, cement and sand mixing skills than I was of my “lawyering” skills.

    I witnessed “sheer determination” and “will” amongst people who had very little by our standards. The houses that went down because of the typhoon, now stand stronger than ever showing how faith and unity in times of adversity could help one surpass any hurdle.

    I returned back from the “Land of Sweet People” more determined to continue participating in such activities and am already looking forward to my next volunteering opportunity.

    As regards my other volunteering opportunities, while in India, I made candles and taught English, on Saturdays, to visually challenged students, at the “The Blind Relief Association” in New Delhi for around a year. In London, I volunteered for the “Food for Life” program of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness, and helped in the preparation and distribution of food in the cold winter nights and also worked as a law volunteer at the Ipswich and Suffolk Council for Racial Equality. While at NUJS, as part of the legal aid society for three consecutive years, we traveled to some of the most remote villages in West Bengal and conducted legal awareness camps and on weekends assisted in providing free legal advice to people who came to the clinic.

     

    Having seen from the perspective of a student and a teacher, how do you say a student can perform better in examinations?

    I personally feel it is important to structure your answers to questions clearly and coherently. Most often students read lengthy articles, because of which at the time of examination, their thoughts are spread all over.

    After completion of any chapter in class, it is important to sit back and think of what questions you would have asked, had you been the teacher and looked at past question papers. Identify around 5-6 essay type question for each chapter and then write out the answers in a clear manner, clearly timing yourself.

    If this is done regularly then just before the date of your exams, instead of cramming long articles and chapters of books-you are concentrating only on your well-written answers. Your answers should always have a clear introduction, body (dealing with the issues posed by the question) and a conclusion.

    I am not at all saying do not read the books in the library. All I am saying is that it is of little use if you ponder over thick books just a day before the exam. In the library, you should spend time, learning to take note of matters which you would like to highlight in your answers.

    Your task would be always to ensure that teacher’s job in correcting the paper is made as easy as possible, and a good neat handwriting goes a long way in ensuring this.

     

    What would be your tips and advice for someone who aspires to join a magic circle law firm?

    If you plan early on in your law school days that you want to make your way to a magic circle law firm, it helps if you start building your curriculum vitae in that direction. There is no one straight jacket formula to make it to an international law firm. However, if you take note of all the matters that I have highlighted in my answers to the various questions in this interview, you simply increase your chances of selection.

    Also, it is important that you prepare for the interview well. Prepare a list of probable questions and think through the answers. Make sure your answers are honest; you dress smartly for the interview and have a firm handshake.
    Be confident and most importantly have faith in your abilities.