Super Lawyer

Author: Donnie Ashok

  • Sukrit Kapoor on Summer Schools, LL.M. from Essex University & a career in International Human Rights Law

    Sukrit Kapoor on Summer Schools, LL.M. from Essex University & a career in International Human Rights Law

    Sukrit Kapoor had graduated from GNLU, Gandhinagar in 2011. Thereafter he pursued an LL.M. in human rights law from Essex University. Being an international law enthusiast he worked at Gaza Strip for the Palestinian Centre for Human Rights and submitted reports to the UN. He also worked as a Refugee Status Determination Assistant at the UNHCR for quite some time and had joined Commonwealth Human Rights Initiative yesterday.

    In this interview Sukrit tells us about:

    • Attending Summer Schools
    • LL.M. in International Human Rights from Essex University
    • Competing in Concours Jean Pictet
    • Pursuit of a career in International Human Rights
    • Work experience at Gaza Strip

     

    Hi Sukrit! How would you like to introduce yourself to our readers?

    I completed my undergrad studies from GNLU in 2011 and immediately followed it up with a postgrad degree in international human rights and humanitarian law from the University of Essex in 2012. Despite being a law graduate I can’t exactly classify myself in the conventional binary of corporate lawyers and litigators, as I like to think of myself as an international law enthusiast with an interest and focus on humanitarian issues. I have recently joined an international NGO, Commonwealth Human Rights Initiative, as a Research Officer and I have previously worked with UNHCR in India and with another NGO in the Gaza Strip.

     

    Please tell us about what life was like in GNLU? What all activities did you pursue while on the course and how did they shape your career?

    For me GNLU, and law for that matter, happened by pure accident. I took up commercial studies during high school and easily envisioned myself becoming a typical number-crunching chartered accountant someday. However, a family friend suggested that having a base in law would boost my accountant pursuits. I ended up in GNLU with absolutely no clue, except for some very clichéd ideas, about lawyers and what they do. Needless to say, I was very lost from day one which lead to my becoming further disinterested in corporate or commercial studies. Luckily for me, I had become friends with two senior students, Kumar Ankit and Hardik Dave, who were seriously involved in establishing the Legal Services Committee and the legal aid clinic at GNLU, and with some encouragement from them I volunteered for the committee in its initial year and got accepted as a member the next year.

    Working with the clinic got me really interested in civil and social issues, but back then I didn’t think I could do similar work for a good part of my life. Interestingly enough, I ended up doing a non-legal marketing internship during my second year and followed it up with an LPO internship with the hope of combining my legal and business skills in the legal outsourcing setting. While interning at the LPO, I got the opportunity to prepare a research brief on international refugee law for an American lawyer who was helping a Haitian asylum-seeker seek refuge in the US and the court ruled in our favour. That satisfaction clicked so well for me that I decided to specialize in international law with a focus on human rights, migration issues, and armed conflicts. Thankfully, the course at GNLU was long enough to allow me to shoot some arrows in the dark while identifying my true interests, and also help me work towards them.

     

    You have attended a couple of summer schools. What are the aspects you considered while opting for these courses? Would you recommend law students to opt for these courses over an internship?

    I attended three summer courses during my undergrad studies. The first one was an Introduction to International Law at the Indian Society of International Law in Delhi. I attended that course immediately after my first year in law school, purely out of curiosity. The next summer school I attended was on International Affairs and Multilateral Governance: Global Migration, Cooperation and Development at The Graduate Institute of International and Developmental Studies, in Geneva and after that I participated in a programme on Protecting Human Rights Through United Nations Mechanisms, at the Human Rights Law Centre of the University of Nottingham.

    Once I got clarity on the kind of work I enjoyed and the area I wanted to specialize in, the next obvious thing on my list was to garner skills, aptitude, and acumen essential for further pursuing my interests. I reckoned these summer schools were ideal for this purpose. They seemed to be a better and wiser investment over an internship because for they offered me a broader, better and more practical understanding on issues beyond the ordinary textbook perspective, which seemed quite impossible through an internship. Also, professionals from various international organizations taught the course and I even got to visit these organizations’ headquarters and get an idea of their functions.

    So my general advice to one and all will be to opt for opportunities which will for sure help you learn and attain proficiency, and it can be through an internship, a summer school, a moot court or essay writing competition, or for that matter anything else. Remember to do the time-investment-benefit analysis and choose the best way you think you will learn.

     

    Following up on that, how have these summer courses helped you?

    They have helped me immensely. This might sound a little like Steve Jobs’ Stanford speech where he explains about connecting the dots and how you can only do it looking backwards, but the best example I can give is that my current job with Commonwealth Human Rights Initiative requires me to be proficient and thorough with international human rights mechanisms, so much so that among other essentials this was mentioned as a must-have in the job description. Also, attending these summer courses helped me understand the teaching methods employed by foreign educational institutions, which in turn prepared me to pursue my masters more efficiently.

     

    sukrit-k2Why did you decide to pursue an LL.M.? What made you choose the University of Essex? Were you considering other universities too?

    I wanted to learn more about working in the realm of human rights, migration, and armed conflicts and the LL.M. at Essex helped me do that and more. I was definitely considering other universities with great repute for masters in international law like Oxford, Columbia, Nottingham, ADH Geneva, but what attracted me towards Essex was that the academics there are professionals with years of experience, including former UN Special Rapporteurs, members of UN treaty bodies, advisers to a range of international organizations (like the OHCHR, UNHCR and WHO), as well as to NGOs around the world, and litigators before national courts, regional human rights commissions and courts, international courts and tribunals, and the UN treaty bodies.They contribute to academia by bringing a remarkable element of practicality in their teachings. Moreover, Essex happens to be the first university in the world to establish a dedicated LL.M. in the area of human rights and this ensured a very strong and omnipresent alumni. The human rights alumni are often called the Essex Mafia, because they are quite literally working in every region of the world with numerous organizations.

     

    You also participated in the Concours Jean Pictet while studying at Essex. Can you tell us what it is and about your experience competing in it?

    Concours Jean Pictet was one of the highlights of my Essex experience. It is a fascinating, a first-of-its-kind international humanitarian law competition which is held in a different country every year, having been held in South Africa when I participated. Each year, an impressive group of people working with organizations like ICRC, UN, international tribunals, and some academics organize this competition. It is a week-long competition where these experts cook up a hypothetical armed conflict situation which develops as each day passes and the teams participate in a range of simulations where they exhibit their knowledge of IHL and other related subjects while playing different roles of military officers, representatives of the Red Cross, armed rebels, human rights organizations and government lawyers.  Apart from reaching the semi-finals of the competition I made some really amazing friends from differentparts of the world. I strongly recommend it to anyone who wants to specialize in IHL.

     

    You have been closely associated with human rights ever since GNLU. Why did you choose to work in this field over a lucrative job at a law firm?

    Given the way my career interests shaped up during and post-GNLU, like I have explained earlier, I think it is this field which chose me rather than the other way around and although I am not averse to working with law firms, it isn’t something that I really wanted to do. Simply put, I realized what I enjoyed doing and kept pursuing it.

     

    How did you start working for the UNHCR? What was your job profile there?

    I stumbled upon the opportunity to work with UNHCR while I was in the Gaza Strip, and got selected for the job after taking a written test and appearing for an interview. I worked with UNHCR as a Refugee Status Determination Assistant, which basically means that I primarily assisted the Office in determining whether an asylum-seeker is a refugee under UNHCR’s mandate or not. I did so by meeting with the concerned asylum-seekers and interviewing them to collect their statements and other relevant information that can be used as evidence. I would then legally analyze and assess their application after thoroughly researching upon their background and the human rights situation in their respective countries of origin. Along the way, I also delivered a lecture at the Indian Society of International Law on behalf of UNHCR and assisted the Chief of Mission in preparing a speech.

     

    You quit your job at UNHCR recently and are now working with the Commonwealth Human Rights Initiative. Why this change?

    I now work as a Research Officer with CHRI’s Strategic Initiatives Programme, which means I monitor, research, and report on human rights issues in various Commonwealth countries; assist the organization with its advocacy initiatives at the UN, Commonwealth, and other appropriate international human rights forums and mechanisms; and network with human rights organizations in various countries. I did something similar to this in the Gaza Strip while working with an NGO there and realized that my skills are better utilized in such a role. Perhaps you can say that I sort of graduated to this job and hence, the change.

     

    Tell us about some of your experiences in the Gaza Strip. How has it changed your perspective?

    I landed up in Gaza straight out of university and worked there with the International Unit of Palestinian Centre for Human Rights (PCHR). I was tasked with preparing two reports on the challenges faced by Palestinian civilians in accessing appropriate judicial mechanisms and the difficulties they face in seeking reparations for damages and losses suffered by them owing to armed violence. Thanks to my brilliant colleagues, I further got the opportunity to assist PCHR with submitting various reports to the UN, representing PCHR at international conferences and facilitating partnerships with other NGOs. One of the most interesting assignments I got to work on was preparing reports on the impact of armed drones on civilians in the Gaza Strip which were submitted to the UN Special Rapporteur on promotion and protection of human rights and fundamental freedoms while countering terrorism.

    Many-a-times, I would get frustrated with the general lack of clarity on the application of some fundamental principles of international law to the situation in Gaza, but overtime I realized that such difficult situations can’t be addressed solely from a legal perspective but principled diplomatic and political measures needed to facilitate the effective implementation of law.

    I can easily call it one of the most enriching experiences in both personal and professional terms as Gaza has a charm to itself which is reflected in its people despite all the difficulties surrounding the region. Thankfully, with a lot of support from my family, lovely colleagues, and friends I managed to successfully complete my assignments there. Something that I will always cherish is how some of my Israeli friends checked on me during escalations in armed violence, while I was in Gaza.

     

    Lastly, what would be your advice to law students in a sentence or two?

    In a sentence or two, it is very easy to lose one’s individuality when one competes in a herd, so don’t settle for something you don’t enjoy, since to succeed naturally, one needs to genuinely love what they do. Just stop being a “rat” and you’ll definitely win the “race”. 😉

  • Deya Bhattacharya on academic publications, Femin Ijtihad & LL.M. from Central European University

    Deya Bhattacharya on academic publications, Femin Ijtihad & LL.M. from Central European University

    Deya Bhattacharya is a graduate of 2013 batch from KIIT, Bhubaneshwar. She has mainly interned at Human Rights Foundations and is currently pursuing an LL.M.  in Human Rights from the Central European University. She is a Senior Legal Researcher at the global women’s rights intiative Femin Ijtihad

    In this interview she talks about:

    • Publications and top 3 things while writing a research work
    • Internships at Human Rights Organisations
    • Work at Femin Ijtihad as a Senior Legal Researcher
    • Intricate details of an LL.M. in Human Rights from Central European University

     

    Most of our readers are law students and young lawyers. How will you introduce yourself to them?

    If there’s a percentage of your readers who didn’t want to take up law, but did so for whatever reason, then I will safely introduce myself as a lawyer who became one by chance. Legal studies grew on me slowly – I am, at present, a postgraduate student in Human Rights and International Justice, particularly fond of women’s rights issues and democratic transitions.

     

    Why did you decide to study law? Tell us about your college life.

    There is a funny story behind this. Towards the end of class eleven, a school friend and I decided to chart out our career options. I never really decided to study law. I was never interested in the pure sciences. I had always wanted to study English, and she wanted to be a lawyer. We both began preparing for law school entrances. However, as fate would have it – she studied English and is now an educational consultant and I ended up in law school.

    I loved International History and English, and my parents gave me the option of doing what I wanted to, and law somehow happened (I saw this with equanimity now; it wasn’t the case always – in the beginning I was not happy that I had chosen law).

    The first couple of years in college, though formative in many ways, were quite forgettable. I drifted from class to class, internship to internship, pretty unsure of whether what I had chosen was, in fact, good enough. Thankfully, there were a few very supportive professors who managed to help me channel my interests in a certain direction. In the latter half of college life, I became more assertive because at that point I was almost confident about what I wanted to do.

     

    You graduated from KIIT. Tell us what your law school experience was like. Also, what do you have to say about the supposed ‘elite’ tag attached to certain law schools? Do you believe branding is something that’s very relevant/important at any stage in a law student’s career?

    The first two batches of KIIT almost always tell you that law school, in the first couple of years, is splendid. We had brilliant professors. The quality of debates in class was remarkable. In the first three years of law school, the professors made sure that there were discussions and dialogue amongst the students; we could approach them whenever we liked, even after class hours. In fact, one of the professors (he has long left KIIT) sat me down and helped me chart out my resume and taught me how to footnote one afternoon over cups of tea.

    I was not interested in law firms (where, I have heard, the elite-tag is of consequence). So during internships it didn’t matter to me whether I was from a national law school or not. It bothered me in my fifth year during two international scholarship interviews – in one, the panelists had not bothered to read my personal statement before they called me in and asked me loose questions about everything except what I wanted to pursue; and in the second one, I was intimidated about my research work (women’s rights/transitional justice – I was told Indian lawyers aren’t really concerned about it!).

    But no, I do not think branding is the most important thing in a law student’s career. It certainly makes life comfortable – you don’t have to build walls around yourself everytime you go to a conference or a moot court. However, let’s not forget – if you’re from an elite law school, you’re expected to be better than most others.

     

    You have had a variety of publications mainly in Women’s rights. How did you settle for this issue?

    I am not sure why one would settle for something? I don’t like settling for things I am not interested in. KIIT offered specializations and while I saw most people in my law school taking the oft-travelled path – Corporate law, I took to International Law (something that is hardly viewed as concrete in the Indian law sphere). Anyhow, this was in my third year, and I was aching to do something along with my regular coursework.

    So, I applied to Femin Ijtihad (now, Strategic Advocacy for Human Rights or SAHR) for an unpaid online internship during that time for a Women’s Rights Case Law Project in India, and this deepened my intrigue in Women’s rights issues. The project was a minor one at that time but starting work at FI/SAHR has been both the inception and the center of my career choices. Later, I wandered from Women’s Rights proper to Women’s rights in transitions but that is a different and a much longer story.

     

    deya-b4What are the top 3 things you keep in mind while compiling a research work?

    I am sure different people have various ways of accumulating research.  The top three things I do while I am compiling research:

    1. I move myself away from everything and everyone else when I am working. I turn on some instrumental music and I do not liking talking when I am researching/writing.
    2. Secondly, I like my documents organized. I can spend hours and hours on this, worrying I might lose my sources. I keep them on Dropbox and segregate folders on the laptop, colour-coordinate, highlight and stick post-it notes on the hard copies that I arrange by topic. Thankfully, there is a software called Zotero that helps you keep track of your bibliography by saving your sources into a personal-library of sorts (I highly recommend this while writing papers, really helps). I also think OneNote/EverNote are excellent pieces of software to keep your article/thesis notes arranged.
    3. Lastly, the writing bit. For me, it can get excruciating to find a perfect starting point when I am beginning an article (sometimes even an assignment). I have seen when I put myself through stress, extreme unimaginable stress (please don’t try this at home!) I write better and more effectively. Another thing that I do (but may not recommend) is that I do my footnotes/endnotes in the end, after my writing is done. It can get difficult to alternate between forming cohesive arguments and doing something so clerical like footnoting, at the same time.

     

    Your have interned at the PUCL, PILSARC & ORF starting with reputed advocates. Please tell us if these internships were pre-planned? What did you gather from your experiences at these places?

    None of my internships were really pre-planned. I was going to do the usual NGO-court-law firm internship drill, when I realized I couldn’t follow the oft-beaten path. PUCL happened after a string of e-mails and calls. It was my first internship, and possibly, my first tryst with human rights work. They had a tiny office-space and much of our work was field work in the harsh Delhi heat. The internship introduced me to the delight of working with the grassroots, how legal ethos is an interaction of legal theory and practical work. I fell seriously ill after my first ever internship (I think I should have taken the hint and left law school for good!) Laughs…

    PILSARC, under the aegis of Dr. Rajeev Dhavan, happened at a time when I was sure that I wanted to pursue Human Rights. One of the senior researchers at PILSARC actually augmented my intrigue towards transitions and democratization, and I think I will always be grateful to her for her lecture on Pinochet’s trial, Charles Taylor and all the hybrid and international tribunals. Back home, I still have the sheet the paper somewhere, where I had scribbled about them while she spoke.

    ORF was my last internship in law school. I did a lot of conflict-related research there, but I wish it had come at a better time. I was grappling with my university applications then and I don’t think I did it much justice.

     

    From your experience at internships, do you think the various law schools across India prepare a student for the world outside their campus?

    To tell you the truth, I don’t. Internship breaks are between the semesters and continue for thirty to fifty days? I don’t think that this is enough time for a law student to properly understand the work culture, ethics and the like. Most law students would probably do the routine internships– first year, NGO/think tank; second year, district/high courts; third year, Supreme Court and fourth and fifth year, law firms.

    And these internships go on for a month, maximum six weeks, and by the time, you’re comfortable and have understood the nature of the work (and, decide whether or not you like it), your internship is done, you’re given the certificate and they bid you farewell.

    I think our internship programmes should be like the ones in medical schools. An entire year or two of doing what you are actually interested in, instead of numerous internships just to decorate the resume.

    Besides internships, I think knowing and understanding the vagaries of legal writing also helps. It is a much underrated skill in our community.

     

    You have interned largely only with human rights institutions. What inspired you to pursue human rights?

    Call it being irrational or simply only just a character flaw, I don’t like doing what everyone else is running after. Maybe I’d be great at a law firm, but I did not want to intern in any law firms because everyone from my class was doing that. This made me build a permanent mental block against law firms, and commercial law. I also avoided studying the mandatory corporate law course back in KIIT, but I had a very resolute professor who made me study it.

    Anyhow, I think this mental block coupled with the fact that I wanted to do something with people (I took up humanities in high school purely because beakers, cutting open cockroaches and atoms don’t do much for me) inspired me to pursue Human Rights. In 2011, during the Arab Spring, while scanning for news from the Middle East and the revolutions, I was almost certain that this was where my passion lay.

     

    You worked for two years at Femin Ijtihad as a Senior Legal Researcher. Share with us the work environment over there and the work you handled? How did you apply to them for a researcher’s post?

    As I have mentioned before, I began working with FI/SAHR as an intern. What began as an internship slowly moved towards more concrete work. I began drafting arguments for cases in the Afghan legal system, drawing up strategy papers and training manuals for strategic litigation for women’s rights in Afghanistan. In 2011, Natasha Latiff, the founder-director of SAHR offered me a position in the Executive Board of FI/SAHR as a Senior Legal Researcher, and I happily accepted.

    We have been working pro bono for a long time, and FI/SAHR believes in bridging the gap between academic and activism in women’s empowerment issues. I don’t think I’d ever refuse the position! In the last few years, we have received the FRIDA (The Young Feminist Fund) grant and the SOAS Best-Student Volunteering Projects.

    We are a team of several women from four different continents, whom I have never met! But the amount of camaraderie between us is phenomenal. I always write to Natasha whenever I am in trouble and she always makes sure she sends a positive audio-note and almost always with a solution to my problem! I am grateful to Natasha, Anna, Sara and Sarah for always being there to brainstorm on my (sometimes ridiculous) ideas.

    The work I have done here is mostly linking women’s rights to post-conflict/conflict areas. I have also assisted in strategic litigation, drafted arguments, concept notes and training modules for child custody, rape, and domestic violence issues. A project that brought us accolades is a research we (Sarah Jones, Sara Bergamaschi and I) conducted in Libya, interviewing Libyan activists on the right of political participation of women after Gaddafi’s fall. The research was published and presented in plenty of international conferences.

     

    deya-b3You are now pursuing an LL.M. in Human Rights from the Central European University. Tell us about the entire application process and any available scholarships to study at this university?

    The application process at Central European University, Budapest is three-fold. By the applicable deadline, you send them your application documents (résumé, statement of purpose, research essay, certificate of English proficiency, transcripts, and recommendations). Then, there is an online examination within a stipulated time limit (I think it was problem-based!). The last stage is a Skype/telephonic interview.

    CEU has a plethora of scholarships and fellowships – ranging from only tuition waivers to fellowships that take care of your tuition, lodgings, insurance and provide you with a stipend for your living costs (remember those days when we dreamed of being paid to study? This sounds almost ideal, right?). If you perform exceptionally well in your first term there, they sometimes double your stipend, as an incentive.

    Since most of my classmates here have had prior work experience or exceptional internships/volunteer work, I am almost certain that the admissions committee prefers that the students are in touch with human rights work.

     

    How did you decide to go for CEU over others? What other universities were you considering?

    Besides the two scholarships (Rhodes and Commonwealth), I had applied to the University of Toronto (the LL.M. program offered specific fellowships in women’s rights, human rights and transitional justice), New York University Law School (the LL.M. program offered what I really wanted to pursue: perspectives of human rights in the Middle East, and had a clinical programme in constitutional transitions), School of Oriental & African Studies (research-based programme with a concentration on women’s rights and Middle East), Cambridge University, the Graduate Institute of International and Development Studies, and CEU.

    After disappointing interviews for Rhodes and Commonwealth, Cambridge and Graduate Institute both sent me overly polite rejections (Graduate Institute sent me one in French!). The scholarships that Toronto and NYU had given me were not really enough. I received the Master’s Scholarship at SOAS, but I would have to have to pay for my own living costs. CEU gave me a full scholarship, which was my primary reason to come here. There are not a lot of financial concerns when almost everything is covered and therefore, it’s easier to concentrate on what I am really here for.

    Another reason why I chose CEU was the program – the International Justice specialization under the Human Rights LL.M. has had all the courses I have wanted to pursue (international criminal law and transitional justice related). I also did a unique internship in an archival institution – dealing with using archival evidence for human rights violations – something that I don’t think I’d do anywhere else!

    deya-b2

    How is the faculty, students and overall experience there? Please share any memorable moment which has struck you.

    The experience at CEU has been very different from my experience in KIIT. The schedule has been rigorous and back-breaking. The course is divided into six modules: each module lasts about six weeks, at the end of which there are term papers, examinations, take-home examinations. The number of credits you have to take for grade is pretty strict; you may also audit courses you are particularly interested in. In between, there is a research/internship break when you can intern or apply for a grant to go to a library/research institute for thesis research. I did everything in an attempt to get a hang of things and the turned schedule more chaotic for myself.

    The students are from diverse backgrounds and countries so during classes (and even outside) it is great to hear different experiences. The faculty is brilliant and immensely supportive! Unlike back in India, the faculty here will treat you like one of them, like an equal, which is something I’ve begun to appreciate. One of the things I like about the course (and the faculty) here is the utilization of the Socratic method in classes. It facilitates a whole range of opinions about a particular subject, instead of a group of students just blindly copying notes while a professor lectures on.

    About memorable experiences? In the beginning during the welcome week, I scared a professor (of Indian ethnicity) when I asked her quite vehemently if she could cook Indian food! After this incident, I have tried to mellow down.

    Very recently, I had long-winding discussions about my thesis with Judge Richard Goldstone, the former Chief Prosecutor of the International Tribunal for Yugoslavia. He told me he was very impressed with my interest and dedication for the subject (he is taking a course based on international criminal law) and most importantly, during our last discussion, told me I am “good stuff” and kept my thesis outline with him. What could be more exciting? I think I am going to take this experience to my grave.

     

    deya-b5
    Was it the course or the brand name which mattered for you? Do you hope to continue with research work or enter law practice after completing your LL.M?

    Of course. I wanted to specialize in aspects of transitional justice and international criminal law and this course provided for exactly that. (Also, CEU is just two minutes from the Danube, and Budapest is such a beautiful city to live in.)

    I complete my LL.M. in a month, but that is only the coursework. I still have my thesis to write. So, I am going to concentrate on that before deciding what I want to do hereafter. I’m very sure I will be primarily involved in research, though I wouldn’t mind exploring a combination of both research work and litigation.

     

    How difficult was studying abroad in terms of finding accommodation, finances and settling in? Tell us about a typical day you spent over there? Did it allow you to engage in extracurricular activities as well?

    I was certain that I wanted to do my LL.M. after law school since I was in my third year so, I was prepared to face all sorts of difficulties. I think, in my case, the difficulties occurred during the application phase – I wanted to draft perfect personal statements for each of the universities instead of writing one and using them for all the applications. That was pretty hectic. Then, deciding that I would be giving up brand-names like SOAS, Toronto and NYU for CEU (a lesser known university) because I wouldn’t have been able to afford them.

    At CEU, accommodation was a part of my scholarship along with a small stipend that is just about enough to survive. Settling in is not that complicated – the university staff helps as much as possible to help you find your way around the university as well as the city. Living alone can be slightly unnerving at first but it grows on you, and you begin to love it.

    Owing to the module structure, it is quite difficult to plan your day around it. But we get by. My day starts with waking up, taking the metro to the university, and going to class. There is always a stipulated number of readings for class, which one is expected to mandatorily complete. After classes (some ending as late as 7 pm), I come back, speak to my family and engage in either my thesis work/readings for next day or other research work.

    Sometimes, I decide to cook for the entire week to lessen my burden, and those evenings are a pandemonium. I am a night owl so I get most of my work done after dinner. I cannot sleep unless I read so there are nights when I grapple the idea whether I should go to bed or finish reading a book.

    Because this is a taught programme and the schedule is rigorous, co-curricular activities become a hassle – I have not written an abstract for a call for papers in ages! I am not a big fan of sports; the only extracurricular activity I am bothered about is to finish reading novels and that is possible! For sports enthusiasts, the bar in the dormitory airs important football matches, has a pool table and organizes regular sports events.

     

    What would be your message for law students wishing to pursue a future in the field of Human Rights?

    Since I am only just starting out, I have some borrowed but clichéd (though, very effective) advice: patience, and passion. Human rights, whether advocacy and research or litigation, is neither fast nor easy. It could take decades to stretch out, amend and modify the Human Rights discourse, and one will often feel intimidated by it, especially because the seniors in the field (there are exceptions, of course) will often disregard taking on younger people or ignore their ideas altogether. You will feel like abandoning everything because things do not work on a finely charted timeline, but don’t!

    As Natasha from FI/SAHR recently told me – “… keep doing your work with passion but be detached from its results.”

  • Rohan Mukherjee, Founder, Grayscale Legal, on environment law, entrepreneurship, and his internship experience

    Rohan Mukherjee, Founder, Grayscale Legal, on environment law, entrepreneurship, and his internship experience

     

    rohan-mukherjee1Rohan Mukherjee is a student of NLU Odisha, Cuttack, batch of 2015. In 2013 he started his own entrepreneurial venture, Grayscale Legal, a non-profit company to bridge the gap in demand and supply of good legal research. Grayscale Legal  is a Legal Assistance & Research Service Company aimed at getting law students recognized and placed on the basis of their mettle, rather than their grades. Due to Grayscale’s success he was also inducted as a fellow into Kairos Society – a worldwide association for entrepreneurs and innovators. Apart from being an entrepreneur, he has also received a pre-placement offer from India’s first Environment Law firm – Enviro Legal Defence Firm.

    In this interview he talks to us about:

    • Starting up with GrayScale Legal
    • Getting inducted into Kairos Society
    • His internship experience

    How did you gravitate towards law?

    Well, that could be a long answer for one question. See, I had given up on my science subjects in school because my interest didn’t lie there, and I saw no sense in pursuing something that I, with all my heart, didn’t see myself in. As a child, when you see your relatives around you who happen to be lawyers, enjoying a great lifestyle, it does create an illusion that life gets to be easy with a robe on. Well, of course, we learn otherwise later on, but the money and influence does play an attractive role to a teenager. Changing the world and fighting for ideals comes later.

     

    What were the different things that you did these five years at NLUO?

    Well, I do play drums and percussion, so that kept me engaged in my initial years, although I failed to set up band for the University. I write a lot, sometimes short opinionated satires, or dabble with my own black humor genre of poetry. My apprehension towards public speaking was removed when I was introduced to parliamentary debates, and those seven minutes of speaking time, still makes my adrenaline pumping. Apart from all this, I have been a part of some other ventures and organizations as well in various capacities, like being the Associate Director of Model Governance Foundation at one point. I started Grayscale Legal in my third year, which is a Legal Assistance & Research Service Company aimed at getting law students recognized and placed on the basis of their mettle, rather than their grades. I was recently inducted into the Kairos Society as well.

     

    rohan-mukherjee2Please tell us about your project Grayscale Legal.

    We are a Section 25 private limited that provides legal professionals and laymen with Legal Research and Assistance. Our basic aim is to assign students to professionals on various assignments on a monthly basis or a task wise basis in order to get their work recognized by the concerned client which in turn materializes into further opportunities and job offers.

     

    Where did you get the inspiration for this venture?

    It started as a survival instinct for myself. I knew that just my grades won’t get me ‘placed’ anywhere, but at the same time I also knew that I wasn’t a complete idiot. The only way to make a potential employer know you for your work, for the sheer ability to perform and deliver and to an extent ignore the fact that exams are not your best friend, was to take up assignments from them directly and work in exchange for recognition. Also, law offices do not have legal interns in their office all the time, and being a cloud based company, we get to fill in that gap virtually. Also, with students’ access to campus libraries, online legal databases etc., the research material is vicariously accessible to the clients as well.

     

    What factors do you think makes your project innovative and successful?

    We are far from successful at this juncture. But I would like to think of Grayscale Legal as a way to bridge the gap between campus and offices. Sure, there is nothing innovative about that, but our aim is not to simply dole out research assignments, our aim is to enable law students to generate their own pool of contacts – established professionals who recognize and recommend them for their professionalism. I should also vouch for the selfish interest factor, where a student is assigned to a client, it is up to him/her to undertake full responsibility for these projects and apart from the commission, the prospect of a  job offer, that you have managed to earn yourself is a kick in itself.

     

    Initial investment is a big issue for any start- up, how did you manage that?

    Being a cloud based company, and a non-profit one, I was able to bootstrap the initial expenditure from my father and uncle. I am fortunate that they saw some merit in this idea and were on board. Of course, our expenditure is limited to the website maintenance and incorporation costs.

     

    What challenges arise when you handle law school and entrepreneurship at the same time?

    I don’t really get worked up about on-campus matters, apart from the gnawing fact that I need to graduate next year at all cost. But for me, Grayscale Legal takes complete precedence over everything else. I mean, to be honest, I wouldn’t be where ever I am, giving this interview, I wouldn’t be attending client meetings and speaking to them on a level basis if not for this company. Every week starts off with a full blast of insecurity and every day is a pounding of anxieties when it comes to the future of the company, or daily assignments for that matter. I do tend to micromanage a lot, which was my strategy to prevent anything from getting messed up, but I am gradually training myself to let things go – or to delegate them to other people.

     

    Tell us a bit about Kairos society. What do you have to do being a part of it? How did you become a member?

    The Kairos Fellowship is designed to support individuals working on high-impact ventures. The newly inducted members are immediately entered into a community of likeminded changemakers, and they’re presented with opportunities to connect with industry leaders and influencers through Kairos events and Kairos partners. When their venture is ready for distribution, they’re encouraged to apply for this Kairos 50 venture program. You can also read a bit about it on Kairos Society

    The Kairos Society started with a vision: What if the leaders of today were friends 30 years ago, working together to solve our world’s grandest challenges? Becoming a Kairos fellow is a commitment to impact, and we hope to take full advantage of the opportunities presented to us throughout the year. More importantly, we hope to continue to support each other on the path to creating meaningful ventures, and build relationships that will last a lifetime.

    To become a member you have to be recommended by an existing fellow or apply on your own. The modalities are on their website. This is open for students working on their ventures that might have a global impact.

     

    How supportive are your parents and peers towards this project?

    Well, there is plenty of support from my parents. Rest, I haven’t really thought about. Doesn’t matter anyway. As long as you know what you’re doing, and doing it well and with complete dedication, charging after it like a rhino – Support and good wishes from third parties are just a bonus.

     

    Why are so many aspiring lawyers taking the entrepreneurial plunge?

    No campus placements? Kidding. In my view entrepreneurship and litigation walk hand in hand – the thrill and risk of starting your practice from scratch, making your services worth the client’s money, client retention, growth and expansion of business are all common areas. Of course, we are lucky to be living in this era where the internet apart from making us aware various prospects, has given birth to many ventures as well. Also people have starting to realize that a law degree is a like a passport to a multitude of fields, and is never necessarily bound in a chain. It is brilliant that many are turning to set up their own ventures that have changed the way the legal fraternity interacts with the legal ecosystem. There still has to be a burst in technological innovation in this field – we are still satisfied with an Android app of the Supreme Court listing, where as there are software programs used in other countries, by lawyers, which reduce the time taken for legal research by leaps and bounds. That level of tech-savviness still needs to come in India. Hopefully, our generation will take care of that.

     

    What specific areas of law education helped you in your venture?

    I would have to say Company Law since it is after all an incorporated entity. But frankly, no legal education really prepares you for this. Today I can rattle out the importance and use of DIN (Director Identification Number), the process of preparing and filing the MoA and AoA, the documents used, the property documents to be produced as proof for office space – and no paper prepared me for this, or it could have, but I didn’t pay attention. I mean, the idea that we could possibly register ourselves as a Section 25 company came to me after going through online articles, and then perusing through Section 25 of the Companies Act itself. Which is also interesting because strictly speaking, the provision chalks out organizations whose purposes are ‘educational’, ‘charitable’ or ‘religious’ – but it is followed by ‘or any other useful purpose’. I reckoned that our work is definitely ‘useful’ so I cast my line based purely on calculated guts.

     

    Do you intend to work for this project primarily after your graduation?

    After graduation my priorities will naturally change. I need to build myself as a legal professional first and foremost, and I realize that I will not be able to juggle both with equal dedication and in essence, fail to do justice to both of these arenas. I do intend to shift the management of the Company to another student, and of course, in our line of work it makes perfect sense for the person to be personally motivated to see the company grow and evolve and use it as means to your professional life, and that can only appeal to a student, someone who generally will possess that sense of urgency and insecurity. I will still remain a Director, but will restrict my involvement to the bare minimum.

     

    Did you get any institutional support for internships from your college?

    In my course of four years, I have interned with Sr. Adv. Uday U. Lalit, West Bengal Human Rights Commission, Enviro Legal Defence Firm (ELDF), Sinha & Co., AZB Delhi, AZB Mumbai and  followed by a string of ELDF internships.

    I would say all of them helped shape up my career choice in a great way. Sometimes, only after gaining some experience in a particular office can you be completely assured of your distaste for that work culture or professional life. I remember during my second year, when  was interning with ELDF for the first time, there was a day when the office was almost empty  and our Managing Partner, Sanjay Upadhyay simply asked me to speak to a client who would be coming in a while since he had to leave as well. I mean, it might not seem a big deal, but as a second year student, to be able to interact with a client with no one overseeing your interaction at that point was itself a kick. My subsequent internships with ELDF have been amazing as well – I have also been to our North Eastern office in Guwahati a few months back, and to be involved to this extent at this level, is something very few mentors can successfully do. Of course, you are constantly humbled by the fact when it comes to any field of law, let’s say laws concerning the environment in this case, there is so much to know – and the in-depth knowledge that is required for a person to confidently say, that yeah, I know this subject, takes a lifetime. Or perhaps, more!

     

    How did you apply to Enviro Legal Defence Firm?

    For an internship, you are required to mail the Internship In-Charge Ms. Suparna Jain at suparna@eldfindia.com and that is usually followed by a submission of your CV and a short essay encircling your statement of purpose etc. A student can intern for four weeks or more and if I remember correctly, during my second year, they did say that they take in students from their third year onwards, but I managed to get an exception since we had covered, on paper, Environmental Law as a subject in our second year.

     

    Tell us a bit about the firm, your typical workday and the overall work/life balance.

    ELDF is an independent team of erudite legal professionals, which provides services to anyone who approaches us, including Governments, Non-Government Organizations, Educational Institutions, Individuals, Private and External Agencies engaged in areas of environment and development law. We have been a part of numerous international forums and have helped in policy building in many nations. Our firm is divided into two teams – Consultancy and Litigation. There are various regional offices present in cities like Pune, Guwahati, Ernakulam and Ranchi.

    My typical work day is like any other associate at the firm. Since, I work with the litigation team, if a matter I am involved in is listed in the NGT or Supreme Court, I have to be  there for the hearing. If not, the work on the cases/projects assigned which ranges from research, drafting, client meetings, further information gathering and strategy building takes up time. The question of work/life balance is a difficult one, of course.

    I am one of those who believe that if you are passionate about your work, it is difficult to switch your ‘professional life’ off after 9 PM or maintain some form of clock for the same. I won’t say that there is an extreme pressure, but it certainly depends on an individual’s priorities. Even as an intern you are credited at par with associates, and made answerable for any screw-ups as well. Office hours would be from 10 AM to 6 PM, but as in any law office, you are expected to put in extra hours if the work demands so.

     

    What do you think interns should accomplish in the course of their internship to get a callback?

    (Rohan has secured a PPO with ELDF.)

    You have to market your strengths in any work environment. And it’s not like you have to prowl around for any work offer that may come your way, if you are genuinely interested in a particular field and feel that a particular law office shall provide you with the perfect exposure in the same, go for it.

    After a few conversations with Sanjay Sir, I had made some form of positive impression on him. Hes has also been a guide when I was setting up Grayscale Legal and was instrumental in providing his feedback on the same. It is very difficult to pin-point exactly ‘how it happened’ because it happened very naturally which is how it should be. And naturally, my work with Grayscale Legal certainly played a role in backing this up as well.

     

    Was there any interview process?

    There wasn’t any formal interview as such for this. There might be one after graduation though.

     

    Where do you see yourself five years from now?

    The initial 5 years will be difficult, and frankly, I look forward to the nudging and pushing required now. Five years is also a make-it-or-break-it period for myself; the time required to be well versed with the laws and procedures; to have substantial visibility in courts and do my work well. For me, nothing takes priority over a client’s interest – one might get into long ethical debates on the same, but let’s save that for later. For a start, apart from my legal career, I’d love to open up a quaint, warm pub, I’d like to pursue my music as well – so five years down the line, I hope I am happy with where ever I am. Or perhaps not. Being dissatisfied has worked out well for me so far.

     

    What would be your message to law students who want to start-up?

    Go for it. Trust me, you will not get a better time to fall, fail and learn again.

     

  • Debadyuti Banerjee, Assistant Manager, Lexplosion, on studying abroad, and her editorial experience

    Debadyuti Banerjee, Assistant Manager, Lexplosion, on studying abroad, and her editorial experience

    debadyuti-banerjee1Debadyuti Banerjee graduated at the top of her class from WBNUJS, Kolkata, in 2011. Thereafter she went to King’s College, London for an LL.M. in International Commercial and Business Laws. She has been in the editorial board of both NUJS and KCL’s Law Review. Presently, she is working as an Assistant Manager at Lexplosion, Kolkata.

    In this interview we ask her about:

    • Studying in King’s College
    • Insight into the International Commercial and Business Laws Course
    • Experience as a member of Editorial Board of NUJS and KCL Law Review.
    • Work at Lexplosion and internship requirements

     

    How would you like to introduce yourself to our readers?

    I am a lawyer by profession, and I’d like to clarify at the very outset that I did not gravitate towards Law but, in fact, chose it after careful consideration. I decided right after ICSE that pursuing law was the way forward for me. Till then I had been toying with two very different subjects—engineering in Computer Science or English literature. And then, I landed on the perfect combination—law!

    Awareness of the presence of conflicts in every sphere, from personal to political and the tiff between theory and implementation—how sometimes something in theory looks good but may actually be different in reality—made me keen on pursuing law as a career. It might be pertinent to mention that I do come from a family which has a long history (and hopefully future) of lawyers and judges and it’s always been a part of who I am.

    I made the switch from Science to Humanities for ISC and started preparing for the National Admission Test for admission to NUJS. I cannot begin to emphasize how helpful subjects like Economics, Sociology and Political Science at the school level were to build a solid base for the first couple of years in a LL.B course.

     

    Did you have an opportunity to study the subjects you chose to specialize in your LL.M?

    My specialization was in International Commercial and Business Laws from Kings College London (KCL/Kings). Other than World Trade Law, which was taught on the bare minimum terms in NUJS, I did not really get an opportunity to study the subjects that I chose in my LL.M. Lectures in World Trade Law were delivered by Federico Ortino and Piet Eeckhout, who are subject matter experts in the EU and thorough in research in this area as well. I must make a special mention of the subjects lectured by Mihael Jeklic (who has also been associated with Harvard Law School in the past)—Legal Negotiation and Analytical and Quantitative Methods for Lawyers (AQM).

    Mihael is a very cordial teacher and his classes were an absolute pleasure to attend. He adopted an extremely casual attitude inside the class, going as far as to encourage us to eat our breakfast in our early morning class! Legal negotiation involved us to engage in real life negotiation situations, sometimes in class and at other times of our convenience. These exercises consisted of real life scenarios, requiring participants to come up with well thought out BATNAs, be aware of the Zone of Possible Agreement (ZOPA) and learning on the job to exert soft skills to achieve the closest best result each person had in his/her mind. Closely related to this was AQM, where things became more interesting. These lectures weren’t lectures at all, in that it was completely a discussion.

    We got to read and talk about interesting topics like decision analysis, game theory, behavior of markets especially its irrationality, bubbles and their growth trajectory and a fair bit of accounting. The skills learnt in these courses go quite far to teach one to evaluate real life scenarios from all angles on a rational basis and would find application in litigation as well as a corporate scenario. A thing to note here was that I was the only Indian national in my batch to take both these courses. Legal negotiation was a bit more popular among my Indian counterparts as it was a half module, while AQM was a heavier subject which involved deep diving.

    For example: We were expected to take part in an exercise on Marketwatch which provided valuable insights into the mechanics of trading and provided several discussions surrounding efficient markets theory and behavioral finance. For those interested to read up on this further, I would suggest “Freakonomics” to be a good starting place. I would also recommend reading of “A Random Walk Down Wall Street” for its stellar theory on the efficient market hypothesis and Warren Buffet’s rebuttal of it.

    These are very interesting eye-opening subjects. Apologies if I rambled there. I also took International Commercial Arbitration on which I chose to submit my primary research paper. This comprised a much larger group, both international and Indian, the lectures themselves were more of a formal structured style and there were periodic (about fortnightly) written assignments to complete. Lectures were delivered by Toby Landau, Salim Moollan, Ricky Diwan, Sam Wordsworth, Maria Duval, among others.

     

    How did you go about choosing which college to go to for your LL.M?

    Having pursued an integrated B.A.LL.B (Hons) programme at the UG level from a prestigious law school in India, pursuing a Master of Laws seemed to be the next step for me especially since I have always been academically predisposed. I was sure that I wanted to go to the United Kingdom for my postgraduate studies. I had applied to Kings College London, Queen Mary University of London, University of Durham, University of Kent and University of Nottingham based on my course preference. I was accepted to all these Universities and was offered scholarships at KCL and Kent. I accepted KCL because of several reasons—location (both in UK and in London), faculty, ratings (consistently ranked in the world top 20 for law), history and background, employability ratings and the most important, the Kings International Graduate Scholarship that I was offered. There were only two scholarships given out that year and I was thrilled to have been offered one. Finances were always the most important consideration in my mind. (I’ll talk about it in some detail later.) KCL is international in its composition and outlook, with a wide array of organisations and societies made available for students, and this offered me a superbly rich study environment. It is located in the heart of London, and by that I mean, I could see the London Eye every day, the law department is housed in the historic Somerset House—it doesn’t get much better than that!

     

    You have worked on the board of the NUJS & the Kings Student Law Review. How has that experience been for you?

    That’s a very good question. Both experiences were fantastic albeit in very different ways. I worked as a Senior Associate of the NUJS Law Review and it was a great learning experience to make the transition from merely writing and onto mentoring, reviewing and finishing articles within a given time period. There was some editorial work involved, but not much, it was more about writing articles. Kings Student Law Review (KSLR) was a different ball game altogether. As a member of the Editorial Board there was a good amount of reviewing and decision making in the selection process involved. Since I was also heading the copy editing team (which is somewhat rare for a LL.M student as the other guys heading teams were PhD students), I think my previous Law Review work experience held me in good stead there. The painful bit of citing articles as a writer was of great help when I was doing the editing especially as OSCOLA was the norm and it was new to me. It was amazing that I had the independence to choose my own subordinate team members. Having been a Law Review member certainly did add to my resume when I was tailoring it for the LL.M application.

     

    How did your interning experience boost your LL.M. application?

    (Debadyuti has interned at Khaitan, Amarchand & Fox & Mandal in addition to interning with advocates and Supreme Court judges.)

    A well rounded CV is always helpful and I think that a variety of internships at leading law firms or advocates or even Supreme Court clerkship showed willingness to learn different skills and thriving under pressure. I believe that this unique blend of experiences also gave me an unique point of view in life and that was super helpful while writing the Case for Support applications for scholarships. Each of these internships imparted new skills and a view into how these organisations work so I would say cumulatively they all helped in grooming my legal skill set.

     

    debadyuti-banerjee3

    How difficult was studying abroad in terms of finding accommodation, finances and settling in?

    Personally I faced a lot of trouble with finding accommodation in London, but mine was a one off thing. There was a certain amount of time during which I was staying with kind strangers and then flat-sharing with a friend. I was finally offered a place in Kings College Hall (There are separate applications for accommodations as well—the various application processes are mind boggling!). It was a beautiful old Victorian building with a park and a thriving international body of students which made my life incredibly interesting! I got the opportunity of interacting with a wide milieu of students (both UG and PG) cutting across continents and cultures. I would definitely recommend living in student halls for the experience it offers. One needs to be careful of finances and carefully plan the expenditure from beforehand, otherwise it’s easy to go overboard since London is an expensive city. However, there are several concessions available to students like the Oyster card and discounts at departmental stores. I was extremely thankful to have been offered a scholarship award as I was very clear that I would not be pursuing my masters without one. There are several attractive scholarships available at KCL especially full scholarships now that it has received extremely generous donations from its alumni.

     

    How was the faculty and academic schedule at KCL?

    I spoke in detail about the faculty and the subjects before so I won’t repeat myself. A typical day would be early morning classes, hanging out with my fellow LL.M mates in the canteen discussing any topic under the sun, afternoon classes (if any), going to the library to study/pick up books, going back for late evening classes (some were scheduled at 7 pm so that active members of the Bar could come down to lecture), travelling for an hour to go back to hostel (Travelling is a big part of living in London!), reading up for future lectures and/or assignments. Readings were given beforehand and one was expected to have read most (if not all) the articles or pieces of work on the list. If you are not reading and not updated, it is very difficult to keep up with the lectures and engage in a meaningful discussion with the class. It will be waste of time if you’re not engaged in the classroom discussions is what I think. There were regular assignments and written essays which needed to be handed in on specified dates, so it was an intense course and pretty busy.

     

    Was there time enough for non academic pursuits at KCL?

    You need to find time for non-academic pursuits. There’s no work without play! In London there’s always something or the other happening—be it wine tasting sessions, guided tours, and the like. I found the study-life balance to be easy to handle and anyone who is good at time management would enjoy their time in KCL and London. There is an education happening inside the classroom and there is an education that London as a city has to offer. It feels extremely rewarding to have gotten a taste of both.

     

    How in your opinion is the LL.M experience abroad different from that in India?

    Not having pursued a LL.M from India, comparing an undergraduate course in India to a postgraduate course in the UK might be a little unfair so I would not like to venture there. However, I would like to emphasize on the world view it imparted and the variety of specialized skills I picked up in my LL.M.

    Again, I cannot really comment on the decision of my batch-mates. Personally speaking, it was never about the job prospects. I was placed as a part of the CRC process with a law firm in Mumbai which I declined to go abroad for my higher studies. I have always been keenly interested in legal writing / research and that’s what led to the LL.M.

     

    There is a school of thought that labels LL.Ms as being little more than an expensive holiday unless the individual concerned wishes to enter the world of academia/research? Your thoughts?

    I am yet to come across a person who has gone on this “holiday” terming it as one! It is expensive and I would not dream of having gone on a fully self-funded LL.M without a scholarship. So the “expensive” bit is definitely true. I rate the LL.M to be an educative experience beyond par—both inside and outside of the classroom. Whether one practices, joins the corporate world or is into research is a purely personal preference, but I am sure reading for an LL.M helps in that journey. In my experience, employers also give a fair amount of weightage to an education abroad.

     

    Tell us a bit about Lexplosion. What is an ordinary work day like?

    Lexplosion is a new age company which is blending law with technology to solve clients’ pain points. Its tagline is to “Innovate Legally” and its main product offering is a cloud-based software which offers regulatory and legal compliance management. Other than that, it also provides a plethora of services which includes a fair bit of work that a typical law firm does, like legal research on specific client queries, contract drafting, due diligence and the like. Lexplosion was set up by a group of ex AMSS, GE, Seth Dua alumni. It’s a young place with the average age being around 30. There is no ordinary work day as such; each day brings with it a set of challenging activities my way.

     

    Can you tell us something about mentoring interns at Lexplosion.

    I am happy with the law students that I have had the chance to interact with during my stint as a mentor here. Most are bright, enthusiastic and make me optimistic about the new gen lawyers. I wish to emphasize writing skills which is frequently missed out on. It’s important as a lawyer to have impeccable research and writing skills. And by that I mean looking at primary sources, citing everything properly and deep diving into issues to address multifarious angles. You don’t need to write using a lot of meaningless words strung together. Writing in simple formal English which shows depth of thought is how one should start.

    Regarding internship applications…a well written cover letter and a proper CV with no grammatical/spelling mistakes are a MUST and automatically points towards a person being organized and diligent. Random applications with multiple addressees are not welcome. And that does not mean putting everybody in the bcc either. There is also a telephonic interview as part of the selection process here and that is very helpful to both parties involved for determining suitability.

     

    Given a chance to turn back the clock would you have done anything differently from what you’ve done?

    Not second guess a lot of things!

     

    What would be your suggestion to law students who plans to go for higher studies?

    Do your research on the courses, faculty, living costs et al., do not blindly follow rankings and go to a University which would suit you the best. Apply well in advance of the respective deadlines for application to the selected course, scholarships and accommodation, and put in a fair bit of thought to each application. Honesty shines. I had made a controversial quote in my SOP for the KCL scholarship and had a lengthy discussion about it with my mentors at the KCL scholarship ceremony. Important takeaway for me was that people will remember you for who you are and what you stand for.

     

  • Arjun Natarajan, Advocate, JSA, on independent practice, being a first generation lawyer, and commercial law

    Arjun Natarajan, Advocate, JSA, on independent practice, being a first generation lawyer, and commercial law

    Arjun Natarajan graduated from V. M. Salgaocar College of Law, Panaji, in 2009. During his time as an undergraduate, he has interned at the Chambers of Advocate S. Sheroan, Human Rights Law Network, New Delhi, O.P.Khaitan & C0., Christian Medical College, Vellore (C.M.C., Vellore) – Legal Department, Chambers of Sr. Advocate Mr. K.K. Venugopal, New Delhi, and Karanjawala & Co., New Delhi. 

    After graduation he moved into litigation practice at Singh & Singh. Later, he started his independent practice focusing on cable and broadcasting disputes at the Hon’ble TDSAT. He recently joined JSA in their Regulatory and Policy group with focus on Communications i.e., Telecom & Broadcasting.

    In this interview he talks to us about:

    • Taking up litigation early after graduation
    • Setting up independent practice with the Hon’ble TDSAT
    • Joining JSA’s Communications practice

     

    Tell us a bit about your childhood and life before college.

    I spent my childhood in Calcutta and in Pilani. After passing the tenth standard in 2002, I did what everyone used to do in Pilani back then i.e., go for physics, chemistry, mathematics, biology and a sixth subject called physical education (English being compulsory).

    Throughout school I was clueless as to what I should pursue. Yes, I wanted to become a traveler but back then I suffered from motion sickness and I gave up that career plan too! Many people say such things about themselves perhaps out of humility but I am being honest. That answers the first part of the question. Now coming to the second part of the question; I have an aunt who is the principal of a law college in Mumbai. I must add that I feel happy about the fact that I am from a family of teachers.

     

    What motivated you to choose law as a career?

    I do not think that there is a lot of resistance towards legal education here. Let me give you an example: when I joined Law College in 2004, my decision was looked down upon by many people from varying backgrounds.

    In 2012, when my sister joined law college, the same people were appreciative of her as well as her decision. Either fortunately the times seem to be changing or unfortunately legal education suffers a reputation attack when urchins like me go for it! I joined Law College. (I won’t say ‘I chose law as a career’ after finishing the twelfth standard because I failed in mathematics. Thankfully, I had a subject called physical education which was accounted in place of mathematics).

    Within less than a week of joining V.M. Salgaocar College of Law, it struck me that I have been mighty lucky despite the debacle in the twelfth standard. All my schoolmates who had suffered the same fate as that of mine in the twelfth standard were unhappily stuck in school struggling with subjects like mathematics.

    I made up my mind to be fair to my luck and try to not let it down. There was no motivation to choose law as a career. Even now I try to pay gratitude to that one stroke of luck and in that process many strokes of luck happened to me in the form of very good mentors, moot courts, internships, jobs, briefs and a lot more.

     

    What are your thoughts on activities like mooting and article writing for journals?

    Your question demonstrates an unfortunate trend i.e., mooting and writing articles are flourishing on the cadavers of skill building exercises like client counselling, negotiation, MUN, et cetera. My thoughts are that such activities are massive contributors in shaping a law student. Such activities (when approached with the right frame of mind) develop an appetite for work in law students. Once an appetite for work is developed, a law student can learn any subject and master any skill.

    One more thought that I would like share is that students who are into mooting are often seen as great orators. Oratory is just the icing on the cake and I believe that it comes naturally when a person is prepared (consciously or sub-consciously but nevertheless “really prepared” and not merely “notionally prepared”.)

    I firmly believe that such exercises enable a law student to think and do things which are far beyond what even the most revolutionary of all curricula would normally permit him to think and do.

    Let us take the example of mooting. The soul of a moot court problem is the ‘fact-sheet’. When this exercise is done repeatedly over a period of time; then it prepares a law student to meticulously work on files which are far more voluminous. A law student should approach moot courts keeping in mind that it is a rigorous exercise. Such an approach would give him a world of opportunities in terms of learning. It should not be seen as some talk show where he can speak.

     

    Tell us about your internships.

    I received immense institutional support for internships. Back then, going outside Goa for an internship was not a very common thing and interning in Delhi was seen as something as strange as touring Jaisalmer in June or touring Spiti in December!

    Slowly more students from my college (especially students without lawyers in their families) started coming to Delhi for internships. The college encouraged students to go beyond Goa and Mumbai for internships. I did some of my internships when the classes were proceeding in full swing. My college excused attendance lapses on my part by prescribing a host of assignments that I had to do with the semester exams and at times the practical papers and semester exams round the corner! Nevertheless, it helped me to hone my multitasking skills! (I tried to write with both my hands, but my mind gave up as much as my left hand showed signs of coping up!)

    After completing my first year as well as my second year, I interned with Advocate Shalini Sheoran at Jaipur. During both the internships I got to work on several civil and criminal matters on the original side in addition to perusing documents and preparing legal notices. During the internship it struck me that moot courts have enabled me to read documents (correspondences, legal notices, pleadings, affidavits, cross-examination of witnesses et cetera) in a particular fashion.

    I realized that I stumble upon some new detail each time I read a document and I took it upon myself to reduce the number of times that I would have to read a document in order to not come across any new details. That exercise continues to this day. The documents have become more voluminous and their content has become more complex but nevertheless I enjoy reading them.

    After completing my third year, I interned with HRLN in Delhi where I got to work on several bail matters for juveniles in conflict with law as well as on some service matters. During this internship I realized that litigation is physically demanding too because it requires a person to keep himself sharp between his ears even when he is physically drained out.

    One of the ways to cope up with such situations is to love what you do and to be at peace with yourself.  It continues to shape up my career and hence it was a remarkable internship experience.

    While I was in my fourth year, I interned with O.P. Khaitan & Co. During the course of the said internship I got to do a fair amount of commercial law related work. I was always given to understand that working with a law firm and litigating are two different things because “law firms do not do litigation.”

    During the course of this internship I realized that law firms definitely do litigation insofar as drafting pleadings and briefing counsels who are engaged to argue. I also realized that what law firms generally do not do is arguing cases at the stage of grant/resistance to grant/vacation/resistance to vacation of interim relief/s, final hearing and on such other occasions when it is likely that a significant order would be passed by the Bench.

    I also realized that law firms generally do not argue cases at stages illustrated above because of  many factors like the stakes involved in the dispute, the client’s choice that the Bench should be assisted by a Senior Advocate and the like. I realized that law firms might not be arguing cases but they inevitably play a stellar role in analyzing facts and law and in strategizing the cases keeping in mind the best interests of the client.

    This internship enabled me to realize that I can very well litigate being a part of a law firm.

    After my fourth year I worked with the legal department of Christian Medical College, Vellore which is a multispecialty hospital. This internship enabled me to observe as to how the legal department of a large organization functions.

    During my previous internship I had seen officials from legal departments of client entities coming to consult lawyers at the firm. During this internship, I was a part of the legal department of a client entity which would go and consult lawyers. The previous internship and this internship enabled me to closely observe numerous perspectives and approaches.

    During my fifth year, I interned with Mr. K.K. Venugopal, Senior Advocate. During the course of this internship, I witnessed his approach to fine aspects of law. I also witnessed briefing counsels from the best of firms briefing him. This internship gave me numerous opportunities to attend proceedings in Hon’ble Supreme Court and to observe Senior Advocates advance submissions on various aspects of law. I developed the skill to take notes on submissions being made and that skill comes handy to this day.

    My last internship was with Karanjawala & Co. This internship also convinced me that law firms do litigate and it is utterly wrong to say that “law firms do not do litigation”. During the course of this internship I worked on some commercial law matters.

     

    How well do you think your education at law college prepared you for real world practice of law?

    Immensely in terms of temperament and skills. In order to answer the second part, I would have to go through the curricula of each law college! But yes, a general observation that I would like to make is that interpretation of statutes needs to be taught before any statute is taught.

     

    Do you think being from a non-NLU impeded your career in any way?

    NLU students are considered to be better than the rest by some. As a former MLU student (Mofussil Law University student) I would like to add the word “only” after the word “some”.

    Some NLU students too have told me something very interesting i.e., NLU students “being considered better than the rest” is like a presumption that is in favour of constitutionality of a statute. Once, the presumption is rebutted; an NLU student is open to be struck down just like any MLU student.

    Being from a non-NLU did not impede my career in any way. I personally do not like fully residential institutions packed into a campus. I would have felt so suffocated that I would have never felt like making use of any of the best of facilities and infrastructure offered by NLUs.

     

    How important are grades for securing a job?

    I have been told by some law students that only if they have a particular CGPA, they can sit for interviews. If it is true, then maintaining a very high CGPA is very important to secure a job (if securing a job which requires a very high CGPA is a top priority).

    One can question everything and die a martyr’s death. But it is better to accept some things which won’t really harm you (maintaining a very high CGPA does not harm you, it would require you to study more but that does not harm you either) and in return you might end up fulfilling your top priority!

     

    What factors contributed to your decision to take up litigation as a career choice?

    When I joined Law College, I made up my mind to do an LL.M. after graduating and thereafter to become a teacher. Towards the end of the first semester; I realized that most litigating lawyers teach much better than some teachers.

    I asked myself as to whether “I want to become a teacher or do I want to teach?” Bang came into my head like a bullet the difference between “becoming” and “doing”. It is better to aspire to “do something” than to aspire to “become something”. For what is it worth if someone becomes something without doing? By doing, he may or may not become, but then after all he is doing!

    The initial motivation to take up litigation as a career choice was to be in a position to teach. Once I took up litigation as a career choice, I lost sight of the motivation to take it up i.e., to teach. However, after getting into private practice in 2012; I started teaching at Indian Institute of Foreign Trade.

     

    You began your career in litigation with TDSAT. What was the rationale behind this choice?

    I began my career in litigation with Hon’ble TDSAT. I began with original side civil litigation. As long as original side civil litigation is the starting point of a career in law (not just in litigation); I believe that it is good.

    By the time I entered the final year; it was very clear in my mind that I want to begin my professional practice with original side civil litigation. At Singh & Singh I got the opportunity to work on at least 5 original side cases daily. Normally there would be at least two matters in which issues would be framed, at least one matter at the stage of evidence, at least one fresh matter in which usually interim relief/s would have to be pressed for/resisted and at least one matter which would be for final hearing. Besides that there would be numerous pleadings to be drafted before and/or after court.

    I do not know the rationale behind the choice to start litigation with TDSAT but it worked very well for me. My basic aspiration to start with original side civil litigation was fulfilled beyond my expectations.

     

    Do you feel that young lawyers should begin their career with regulatory litigation rather than starting at a district court or the High Court?

    Usually district courts and High Courts (if they have original jurisdiction) are suggested in order to ensure that young lawyers begin their career with original side litigation. Regulatory litigation in some tribunals does offer good exposure to original side civil litigation.

    As long as a fresher focuses on original side civil litigation and gets to work for more than 12 hours a day; day after day and week after week (weekends included) – any professional decision that he would make after a year or a year and a half would be in his best interest.

     

    What do you have to say about the general perception that work at law firms is the first choice of most law students and litigation is not high on their list of career choices?

    Any and every law graduate is more than 18 years of age. Law permits him to vote and to decide the nation’s destiny! Of course they are old enough to have perceptions based on various factors. What can I say about perceptions of others which are a product of their likes, dislikes, awareness, ignorance, competencies and compulsions.

     

    What were the biggest challenges and opportunities you encountered during your time at Singh & Singh?

    I am fortunate to have commenced professional litigation at Singh & Singh under the guidance of Prathiba Ma’am. Within hours of my enrolment (back then there was no bar exam), I started entering appearances before the Hon’ble TDSAT.

    I had ample client contact opportunities, numerous opportunities to draft original side pleadings, conduct cross-examinations and advance arguments. I got to represent a broadcaster, a multi system operator, a DTH operator and a telecom service provider.

    I also worked on some appeals in the Hon’ble TDSAT. The challenges, opportunities and most importantly the guidance has tremendously helped me to strive hard and to do my best.

     

    How was your experience at Fox Mandal?

    (Arjun spearheaded Fox Mandal’s broadcasting litigation practice for a year or so.)

    I had a phenomenal experience at Fox Mandal. I joined Fox Mandal when I was a year and a half old into the profession. At that stage in my career, I had the opportunity to handle every aspect of broadcasting disputes on behalf of a leading content aggregator before the Hon’ble TDSAT. I had the good fortune of resisting interim reliefs being sought for against the said content aggregator on a daily basis as well as advancing arguments at the stage of final hearing in several matters. Additionally, I had numerous opportunities to brief counsels for the purpose of cross-examination of witnesses. Such exercises enabled me to observe and learn the skill of cross-examination. My stint at Fox Mandal enabled me to carve a niche for myself as a regular practitioner before Hon’ble TDSAT.

    Coming to the second part of your question, liberty is something that is earned after finishing your work on a given day. Liberty is not something that is to be taken. Finishing your work on a given day can either be in an independent practice or in an institutional practice. The difference would be to the extent that in an institutional practice if you do not finish your work on a given day, then you disappoint your colleagues/seniors and then your clients whereas in an independent practice you straight away disappoint your client.

     

    How does it feel to have a landmark judgment to your credit?

    (Recently the Hon’ble TDSAT had passed a landmark judgment granting TV signals to a DAS licensee for the first time, and Arjun was the counsel for the DAS licensee.)

    The judgment was passed in a batch of 6 petitions filed by the DAS licensee against 6 different broadcasters. All the petitions involved very interesting questions of law as regards interpretation of an MIB Notification and the DAS license. These cases were a lot more complex than some other cases that I had worked on as a private practitioner and therefore they were extremely interesting.

    During my private practice, I was advising the DAS licensee. My association with the DAS licensee goes back to November 2012 when it had to address correspondences to broadcasters as well as respond to their correspondences. When I started with the correspondences, I had to obviously interpret DAS Regulations. However, other than the Regulations, the Explanatory Memorandum, allied statutes and Notifications, there were neither any commentaries nor any judgments on DAS Regulations that I could consult. The process of reading all the aforesaid instruments in a way that nothing becomes otiose, nothing begets absurdity and at the same time the interests of the DAS licensee are safeguarded in the best possible manner was an extremely challenging exercise.

    The petitions were filed in February 2013. The matters were finally argued in February 2014 after cross-examination of 4 witnesses from 4 broadcasters and the judgments were pronounced in April 2014. For final arguments I had briefed Advocate Mr. Jayant Mehta. His insights as to the manner in which the cases were strategized and the trials were conducted were a major source of encouragement for me.

    It can change your clientele and your identification with such a clientele very drastically. Often it stereotypes a lawyer with that one category of cases due to a large number of clients of that one category.
    After the petitions were filed for this DAS licensee in February 2013; there were a large number of DAS licensees who started consulting me as regards addressing correspondences and as regards handling day to day legal and regulatory issues.

     

    You have recently joined the Communication Law & Regulatory Practice at JSA after years of independent practice. How does this change the nature of your work or a typical work day?

    My response to the first part of the question is that a drastic change in the nature of my work happened immediately upon joining JSA. Basically, at JSA I am working on issues which are far more complex than the issues which I usually worked on as a private practitioner.

    Firstly, from cable and broadcasting law (which was my prime area of focus as a private practitioner), I have moved on to telecommunication law – an area which interested me ever since I joined the profession in 2009.

    Secondly, I am getting opportunities to work on administrative law – an area which interested me ever since I joined Law College in 2004.

    Thirdly, my exposure to complex commercial litigation has increased by many times as compared to my exposure to the said area as a private practitioner.

    A typical work day is still the same. I work as much as I used to work before.

    As regards the second part of the question, I would like to say that just because a person executes a successful sprint; it does not mean that he cannot go back to prepare and participate in a cross-country race; especially when he gets an opportunity to be trained by the best of coaches.

     

    Many law firm associates say that climbing the corporate ladder from inside a law firm is far more difficult than having your own practice and excelling. What would be your take on this?

    In my limited experience, I have seen that some people excel wherever they are.

    Firstly, such people will never say anything of that sort. Secondly, such people have three common traits.

    • They stay true to their spirit,
    • they continuously and consistently keep working very hard and
    • they do not know that there is something called an “excuse”.

    If either “climbing the corporate ladder inside a law firm” or “having one’s own practice and excelling” is a matter of priority for a person; then difficulties (real or perceived) or their degrees are trivial. The difficulty level of a road cannot be a deterrent for a man who really wants to travel on it.

     

    What skills would you say is a sine qua non for an intern who wants to excel at work?

    1. Common sense and
    2. An appetite for work.
    3. An understanding that 1 and 2 are ways and means to learn various skills.

     

     

    Disclaimer: All views are personal and do not in any way reflect the opinions/beliefs/views of the organisation/s the interviewee is associated with.
  • Mohit Singh, Advocate, Supreme Court of India, on being an entrepreneur, his internship experience, and his mooting achievements

    Mohit Singh, Advocate, Supreme Court of India, on being an entrepreneur, his internship experience, and his mooting achievements

    Mohit Singh is a graduate from HNLU, Raipur, in 2013. During his time as an undergraduate, he has interned with Ravindra Shrivastava, Senior Advocate, Supreme Court Of India, Justice Manindra Shrivastava, Chhattisgarh High Court, Justice A. K. Patnaik, Supreme Court of India, and at firms such as India Vision Foundation, Haresh Jagtiani & Associates, Phoenix Legal, Scrioboard, Wadia Ghandy & Co., and Amarchand & Mangaldas & Suresh A. Shroff & Co. 

    He is currently an Advocate at the Supreme Court of India, and his past experience includes working in the chambers of Advocates-on-Record, Arjun Garg and Rahul Narayan.

    In this interview we speak to him about:

    • A very detailed guidance on how to start preparing for moots and drafting memos
    • His entrepreneurial bent of mind and starting ventures such as ‘Lexcetera’, ‘Law School Tips’ and ‘1, Law street’
    • His diverse internship experience

     

    How would you like to introduce yourself to our readers?

    I have graduated in BA., L.L.B. (Hons.) from Hidayatullah National Law University, New Raipur with Corporate Law and Intellectual Property Right being my Honours subjects. I had finished my schooling from Delhi Public School, Bhilai, where I was a science student. At present, I am practicing law in Delhi, working with an Advocate on Record. I am the first lawyer in my family.

     

    Why did you decide to study law?

    I was actually a science student at school and always had aspired to be a web-designer. I was busy preparing for engineering entrance exams for two years, but ended up doing law after clearing the first ever CLAT. A reason for choosing law was my love for political science since childhood. My parents had left the final decision of choosing my career on me, and I chose law.

     

    mohit-singh3

    Tell us about your mooting experience.

    (Mohit has been a runner up in national rounds of Jessup and even participated in international rounds.)

    All my moots had been pre-planned with the exception of Jessup. After the release of Compromis (It is a compilation of agreed upon facts about the dispute that is submitted for adjudication to the International Court of Justice (ICJ), the primary judicial organ of the United Nations), my friend along with whom I was a speaker, discussed about doing Jessup and I affirmed the proposal. In the next one week we chose rest of the members of our five-member team and started the work. First challenge was to face a strong University team in the internal rounds. We succeeded there and started preparing for National Rounds. We had a little difficulty in finding research material on some legal issues for which secured resources from ISIL library. At the National Rounds in January, 2012, we finished as Runner Up. Thereupon we had to participate in the World rounds for which our visas etc had to be prepared in a short time. But thankfully we passed all the hurdles smoothly.

    If I may point out the biggest challenge, it was to face Mr. Rishab Sancheti as a Judge in the quarterfinal rounds. He was probably most prepared for the moot than any other participant.

     

    When you faced the moot problem, what are the first three things you did?

    The first thing to do would be to go through the problem at least three-four times. I would then chalk out the issues (if not already given) and then do a general research and jot down the possible arguments which can be used to support the contentions in each issue. The issues and works are generally divided amongst the team members, however I always feel that if time permits, each member should work a little on each issue because everyone has a different perspective of looking at legal issues and it might help the team with additional points on the already dealt issues.

     

    mohit-singh2Describe the entire process of memo writing for beginners.

    The mode of research and drafting vary considerably from person to person. Personally, I do some research and if I find some content which is worth being incorporated in the memorandum, I write these down and then continue with the research. Once I am done with some good research and have enough data to begin, I  start giving shape to the memorandum. This is followed by re-phrasing and re-shaping of the content. Dividing contentions into
    sub-contentions makes it easier to research and drafting and also helps the speakers to deal with issues in a better and clearer manner. But again, everyone can have a different approach.

    The research should not end with the end of the drafting. One should keep reading, as for a moot, one should be ready for the worse. Some judges won’t even let you finish a quarter of your contention and use rest of your time to just grill you with their questions. One thing we specifically did for Jessup was to keep handy, the answers for a lot of basic questions. To cite an example, compilation of definitions of legal principles and the cases where International Court of Justice had relied on or had observed them. This really helped. This can be done by the researchers of the team after memorandums have been submitted and while speakers are preparing for the oral rounds. I have always gone to moots with compilations of documents and case laws (Compendium). Some judges like them while some completely have an aversion to them.

    It’s very necessary to have a good team. Lack of understanding and co-ordination may bring in lots of issues. For Jessup, I am really grateful to the team members who were really very supportive.

     

    What is the importance of mooting?

    There can be two very different answers. Yes and No. Mooting is quite different from lawyering. One may often come across people saying that one gains nothing from mooting. However, I feel that the best research works that I have done in my college life were for drafting my memorandums. Mooting definitely sharpens one’s research skills. So, I would say that mooting does contribute a lot. Mooting helps to build confidence and the skills of putting forth your arguments, being selective  and convincing others on those issues.

     

    mohit-singh1How did you balance mooting with other important stuff like college assignments?

    Compromis/Moot Problem was out in mid-September and we had our University internal rounds in first week of November, a couple of days before our
    end-semester were to begin. Internal rounds were a little challenging, but probably that compelled us to work harder which finally paid in the national rounds. One can manage mooting with studies. One can often use the moot research work for writing articles and getting them published (though I always planned so, I personally remained too lazy to do this). But there are times when deadlines clash, but then few days of less sleep can help. Our deadline for submission in Jessup was first week of January and I and my teammates were interning during entire December. We were running out of time and I was forced not to sleep for continuous 40 hours before personally handing over the memorandums at Amity University where moot was going to be hosted. But then as there are lots of things to do in a Law School, one needs to be selective.

     

    According to you, what should law students expect from mooting as an activity?

    As I said, mooting definitely helps to sharpen one’s research skills. But it’s not a case that without mooting one cannot get that. My college juniors often ask if the law firms where I had interned value moots or not. I personally feel and have seen that it depends on the person evaluating one’s curriculum vitae. But if a person is planning for LL.M from abroad, moots especially the ones like Jessup, Oxford moots and Stetson carry a lot of weight. Moreover, one gets to visit universities across India and also abroad.

     

    If I have never mooted in my life, but I want to – how should I get started?

    Pick up any moot, preferably a national moot; make your team and just start and first year is not too early to do it. You may fail, but it’s not something that doesn’t happen to even the best of them. Research on your own and never put the blame on your teammates that they are not working.  Rather take it for granted that you are going to face this situation. Divide the issues amongst team members. Do not mind being a researcher initially or even later. But if you are confident that you can speak better than the rest, stand up for being a speaker.

     

    What was it like to attend an international student event? You must have met many international law students. Any interesting stories to share?

    In my personal opinion, international rounds of Jessup is probably one of the best things that can happen to a law student. The event takes place at Capitol Hilton which is at a walking distance from the White House. One gets to meet the best teams selected from over 600 teams from over 90 countries (as of 2013). The parties, especially the National-go-Ball, where teams come in their traditional dresses, are just awesome! Meeting people from across the world at the same place is very exciting. We also interviewed the winning teams of the World Rounds for Lexcetera. We are still in touch with the friends we made there.

    Judging is very different there as compared to India. To cite one  example, they are generally not involved in just grilling you unlike few who just love doing so.

    We also met one of our college senior, who was doing his LL.M at Harvard. He was invited as a Judge.

     

    According to you what are the qualities that make a good lawyer?

    As I am very new at the Bar, I probably would not be very suitable to answer this question. But however in my opinion, the most basic quality is to maintain a rationale and logical reasoning for everything you think and do. This helps not just a lawyer but also a lay man. Choose the best argument and give it your best.

     

    What were your areas of interest during your graduation?

    My Honours subjects in the University were Corporate Law and Intellectual Property Rights. Cyber Law was my favourite optional subject. As I was into web designing and also otherwise, I was always interested in computers, I  developed a liking for Information Technology. I took Corporate Law from the market need point of view and I took Intellectual Property Right as I liked the subject. Love for political science has also kept me close to Constitutional Law.

    International Law led me to do International Moots. I have worked a lot on this subject and like it a lot.

     

    What are “Lexcetera” and “1, Law Street”? How did you get the idea in the first place?

    Things began with ‘Lexcetera’. When I started to moot, there was no database of moots or even a calendar or a list which would tell me that which moots I should participate in and which suited my academic calendar. I and a friend of mine, Hansa Sinha (who was also my co-speaker at Jessup) decided to compile information in this regard. Later on ‘Legally India’ launched its ‘Mooting Premier League’ where I voluntarily worked for their wiki database – ‘Legallypedia’. Subsequently in August 2011, I and Hansa, with help of three other juniors launched Lexcetera which had a sort of exhaustive repository of the details of the Indian Moots and of International Moots, where Indians teams are eligible to participate. We maintained it for two good years and are deeply grateful to law students for their response to the website. But after we entered our last phase of law school, priorities changed and it became quite difficult to save ample time for it.

     

    How did Law School Tips start?

    Facebook has been playing a very important part in lives of most of us. Law school was something which connected law students to the law school life at Facebook. The founding of page was very random. ‘Lexcetera’ had already started in 2010. A year and half later, I was watching the Republic Day Parade on TV when randomly it struck me that the whole essence of celebrating this day was that we got our Constitution on that day. So this day is technically a landmark day for lawyers. I do not know what led me to think more on this on very different angles but, one thing led to another. I needed something to vent it all out. So, I gathered few ideas and at the midnight of 31st January 2012, and I launched the page.

    The posts were a series of things which happen in law school. From mooting to love and from teachers to end semesters, there were posts which students could relate themselves with. The Tips are less now and posts these days are not specific to law students but generally to those involved in law.

     

    How did you go about finding good content for the page?

    For ‘Lexcetera’, along with co-founder Hansa Sinha, we had four other college juniors to whom I shall always be grateful. Law School Tips, I manage on my own.

    I feel finding content is sometimes very easy and at times very difficult. The page has got weekly reach as high as five lakhs to as low as six thousand. Sometimes I love things which interest even lay men a lot and sometimes doesn’t even interest to lawyers. I try to be active on social medias and regularly keep a tab on other legal websites. I try to keep original ideas as being different it what attracts a larger crowd.

     

    How did Lexcetera become so popular on Facebook?

    After its launch at midnight of 31st January, 2012, with the help of night owls like me, page was followed by around 100 people by 7 AM. By night it had over thousand followers and within a week follower mark crossed 3000. Slowly it had crossed twenty thousand followers mark. I did not promote it through Facebook ads or kinds but thanks to the kind followers, when they like or share the contents, it shows up on their profile and the page gets promoted. I really had no idea that the page would get so popular and also, thank you for calling it ‘popular’.

     

    What are your future plans with 1, Law Street and Law School Tips?

    As of now I have to earn my bread and butter, I get less time, but I plan to involve my college juniors and work again for this. As I have plans to re-launch ‘Lexcetera’ together with ‘Law School Tips’ as ‘1, Law Street’. I also plan to do something which lawyers are generally interested into. Let’s see, how it happens. Fingers crossed!

    ‘Law School Tips’ has definitely not been very active as before, but I hope in future, it engages with legal people to get an even larger share of their love.

     

    What are you currently doing? Why did you choose this career?

    I am currently working with an Advocate-on-Record at Supreme Court, who has been kind enough to teach basic nuances of drafting and litigation. He even lets me argue some matters. I was about to work in Corporate Sector but, thankfully I chose litigation as my career path and I plan to continue in this field.

     

    How important do you think is to have a mentor to guide you in the formative years of a practice at the SC?

    It is very necessary to have a good mentor in the initial years of practice because the concepts of law studied at law school give you only an insight of the vast field of law and then again the actual practice of courts is quite a different world in itself. While being in litigation, other than learning the nuances of law, one also needs to know and understand the process of filing and essentials of drafting. Several times at an appellate level, we come across cases where due to minor mistakes made in the fillings at lower level, a case may be lost even though it may be strong on merits. Therefore to have a good mentor who teaches the details and intricacies of the entire process is very necessary.

     

    How is it like to start one’s litigation practice at Supreme Court?

    Being in law school, it appears very fancy to hear about working at Supreme Court though practically speaking it is not the case. Many people do not recommend starting up the practice directly at Supreme Court. I would always recommend a person joining litigation to start at a place where he or she can get to work at a variety of forums. Narrowing one’s work at Supreme Court, one shall miss learning the process of drafting and filing process at lowers courts which shall cause a little trouble when one tries to get independent. Starting practice directly at Supreme Court is not wrong but knowledge of the litigation process at lower forums is very necessary.

     

    How difficult would you say it is to set up a practice at the apex court?

    Normally when a lawyer start getting independent, he may not choose to fix the forum where he may decide to continue the law practice. After five to six years of getting a law degree, one becomes eligible for appearing in an Advocate-on-Record examination. Being an AoR is necessary for filing a vakalatnama on behalf of a client but this does not mean that a non-AoR one cannot argue a matter before the Supreme Court. An AoR may do the filing but any other person who is legally authorised by him can argue it. On this note, this judgment is worth referring to Re Rameshwar Prasad Goyal AoR.

    It is a dream of every litigating lawyer to start his own practice. However it is difficult to give a straight answer to the question asked as it may depend on various factors, a family background in law, years of practice in law, forum of practice being few of them. Chambers and firms where one has worked and the level of contacts one has built also matter because building contacts are helpful in bringing clients to you. There are firms which put a restriction on their lawyers to entertain individual clients. Hence, more the time is spent at such firms, the more time it would take for that person to establish his own practice. Even if one has good experience and has good knowledge and understanding of law, yet it would not be possible for him to start his own practice if he is not able to draw clients to himself.

    Setting up one’s own practice is of course difficult, and it takes time and efforts, but there is no other option. I am perhaps a too junior member of bar to answer this.

     

    Where do you see yourself five years down the line?

    I would be very happy if I myself had an answer to this question. Till last year, I had no plans of joining litigation but now that I am into it, I do not plan to leave it. A foreign LL.M. has always been on my bucket list but now that I am into litigation, I am having second thoughts about it, though I am still not crossing it off from there. To be frank I am not certain of the answer though a possible happy situation five years down the line would be that either I have already started my own practice or perhaps be close to it.

     

    What message would you like to share with our readers?

    For the law students, I will say that law school life is often a roller-coaster but stay focussed and work hard. Try not to miss any part of the law school life. Friends you make there, generally remain with you throughout your profession and hence life. Most of the law schools in India have some or the other short-comings but a lot can be managed without depending on them for that. But definitely do not MISS the fun part of law school!

    And as I am involved in litigation, I would say that if you are interested in litigation but do not plan to practice just for the fear of initial hiccups, please do not let the money and family factor let you decide what you have to do for rest of your life. There are initial money issues but slowly you can fair better than others.

    Keep communicating with others as this profession is all about that.

  • Debosmita Nandy, Associate Legal Manager, ITC, on being an author, her litigation experience, and plans for the future

    Debosmita Nandy, Associate Legal Manager, ITC, on being an author, her litigation experience, and plans for the future

    debosmita-nandy4Debosmita Nandy graduated from WBNUJS, Kolkata, in 2009. During this time she interned with the likes of Luthra & Luthra Law Offices, Trilegal, and Amarchand Mangaldas. She is an in-house counsel with seven years of PQE in diverse commercial and civil disputes, alternate dispute resolution, negotiation and agreement drafting and corporate mergers and amalgamations. She specialises in Mergers and Amalgamations, International Commercial Arbitration, Legal drafting, Advising clients and appearing in court, Contract Negotiation.

    She is currently Associate Legal Manager at ITC Limited.

    In this interview we speak to her about:

    • Her experience with writing and publishing
    • Being a litigating lawyer
    • Her internship experience

     

    Tell us a bit about your life before law school.

    I was born and brought up in Kolkata. Throughout my school life, I was miss goody two-shoes and the only things which interested me apart from studies were reading and creative writing.

     

    How did you gravitate towards the field of law?

    I was very clear from the beginning that I would not go down the traditional career path. I was trying to decide between the armed forces (yes, I wanted to join the Air Force!) and research in the field of Genetics (Biology was a favourite subject then) till I read To Kill a Mockingbird by Harper Lee and was blown over by Atticus Finch and his profession. I also came to know of national law schools at the same time, which helped me in finally deciding on taking up law as a career.

    However, convincing my parents was a tough task! I took up Science with Biology in plus two to keep my options open but mainly to appease them. Towards the end of class XII, I chucked my parents’ dream of being a doctor and set myself on the path of preparing for law entrance tests (every law school had its own entrance tests then). I took a chance and wrote only the entrance test of NUJS, whose results were declared during my ISC examinations.

     

    Tell us about your writing experience and how it has helped you as a lawyer.

    Getting associated with Writer’s Block, the NUJS in-house magazine stemmed from my love of creative writing.However, being associated with NUJS Law Review helped me develop a very important skill – that of teamwork. I wrote two articles jointly with two juniors and was also responsible for mentoring them. Both of them brought fresh insights to the table and it was a good learning experience for me. Moreover, it helped fine-tune my legal research and writing skills.

    Writing a well-researched and publication-worthy legal article hones one’s logical reasoning, analytical mind and research skills. While writing an article, one has to be very careful about grammar, formatting requirements of the publication house and spelling. These things, however minor they may appear, are very important for good drafting. You have no idea how many junior lawyers get a rap on their knuckles due to bad grammar or wrong spelling or because they did not put a comma in the right place!

     

    Tell us about your internship experience.

    In terms of law, one does not really learn much of it during internships. I worked on formatting and cross-referencing 30-page long agreements, read through voluminous documents in the name of due diligence, copy-pasted information in the standard template in the name of drafting reports, researched judgments on points of law on which none existed and read litigation files but failed to understand the difference between a plaint and a petition! Personally, I think that it is difficult to develop an understanding of how the law works in the real world in a span of just four to six weeks.

    However, these internships gave me the chance me to visit different cities, taught me how to live on my own, introduced me to the ‘law firm culture’, gave me a taste of how long the working hours and how competitive the professional life would be and brought me in touch with all kinds of people! It was a very good life lesson, something I would not have learnt otherwise. I also picked up skills like good communication, multi-tasking, working on tight deadlines and effective networking, which are important for any profession.

     

    What role did the placement committee play in securing internships?

    I just went with the flow. I interned in all possible places – NGOs, trial court, High Court and Supreme Court lawyers and three top law firms. All my internships were arranged through the placement committee except the one at Luthra where I applied on my own.

     

    Any advice for the young law students as to how they should choose and plan their internships?

    When it comes to internships, I believe that one should try all before deciding on the one they want to pursue. Despite my misgivings about how much law one learns during internships, I believe that internships give a flavour of the place, which helps decide one’s career path. However, one might still end up in a completely different place of which s/he has no idea, like I did – first at a litigating law firm and then in a company!

     

    What do you think an intern should do (or should not do) to get noticed at work?

    Be sincere and diligent in the assignments that you get, show your eagerness to learn and go the extra mile. Maintain punctuality in reaching office, finish the tasks within the time permitted and if not, then take permission for extension of the deadline. If you have more than one assignment at a time, then ask the associates about the order in which they want them rather than you deciding which one you would finish first.

    Ask work from as many associates or managers and their bosses as possible so that most people know you, admit mistakes and do not repeat them, but hold your ground if you think you are right. Do not fib about anything since you will be easily caught.

    Avoid logging into social network sites from office computer, do not engage in idle chit-chat with fellow interns but be generally sociable. Avoid going on dates with any associate so that you are not accused of using improper means of getting a PRO! Above all, behave as if you are already a part of the organisation.

     

    How relevant did you find your law school education with the kind of work you were required to do at law firms?

    Legal education is definitely far removed from the way law is required to be applied in the profession. An apt example would be the procedural laws. The way CPC and CrPC are taught in law schools will be of  little help when one has to apply his/her knowledge at the workplace. I learnt CPC fully only when I began working in Khaitan & Co.

    In my opinion, law is a subject which is learnt only on the job. One can begin working at a lawyer’s chamber or a law firm along with regular classes to get a head-start. However, I believe that the law school days will never come back, so why waste precious time stuck away in a cubicle? Everybody will learn the practical application of law once they start working, so make the most of the five years that you have!

     

    debosmita-nandy3What kind of work did you do at Khaitan?

    Khaitan & Co. was instrumental in introducing me to the various facets of the profession, especially teaching me the procedural aspects of law. I mainly worked on a wide range of litigations, including arbitration and got trained in the aspects of client handling, research, identifying relevant documents, research, drafting, briefing counsel, appearing in court, organising papers (trust me, litigation generates piles of papers!), knowing how the court machinery works and everything in between. Early on, I was given independent charge, which was scary, intensely pressurizing but highly beneficial and satisfying.

     

    How different would you say is working as a disputes lawyer as opposed to working as a corporate lawyer in a big law firm?

    Disputes lawyers spend the half of their days running around in court, getting the much-needed exercise, while corporate lawyers sit in their chairs for the whole day!

    On a more serious note, it would be unfair on my part to comment on this since I only have internship experience in corporate law firms to go by.

     

    What were the top three challenges you faced right at the beginning as you began practice as a litigating lawyer at Khaitan?

    1. Lack of understanding of  how the court works – I trailed my court clerk, asked questions to whoever listened and witnessed all ground level work right from paying stamp duty on a plaint and having it notarized till going to the Registry for certified copy of an order.

    2. No family legal background – I did not know the top lawyers, their clerks or their chamber addresses. It was difficult to get the lawyers to listen to me since they considered me a rookie. I managed to gain their attention only with sincere and hard work. I strongly believe that it does not matter who your father is as long as you can show them who you are and what you can do.

    3. Being a woman – The profession, especially in the litigating field, is still quite patriarchal, although I believe times are changing. As long as you maintain a no-nonsense and a professional attitude towards your work and surroundings, you should not face any problem.

     

    After Khaitan, you shifted to ITC Ltd. What prompted the switchover?

    At the end of three years at Khaitan & Co, I was looking for a different challenge and so joined ITC Limited as an in-house counsel.

     

    What is the role of an in-house counsel in a multi-business Indian conglomerate like ITC?

    A typical work day for me begins at 9 AM with checking the mailbox and making a list of things to do for the day. Shortly thereafter, I get calls from other departments of the company, asking for my inputs on day-to-day operational issues. Between 1 and 2 PM, I enjoy the lunch arranged by the company and chat with my colleagues. Post lunch, I try and schedule all meetings so that I do not end up snoozing at my desk from the heavy lunch! Apart from internal cross-departmental meetings, I also attend various meetings with outside parties as a member of the company’s negotiating team. I offer my legal inputs on agreements, negotiate with the lawyer from the other side and help the company in closing the deal. Towards the end of the day, I meet my reporting bosses and discuss my areas of work for their inputs and advice.

    On some days, I research on the legal points in a proposed dispute and draft suitable applications.If a case involving the company is going on in the court, then I go for briefing conferences with the counsel and attend the hearing in court. However, this is a very general version of my routine here, since no two days are same – each day brings new challenges and exciting opportunities to my desk.

    Simply put, the role of an in-house counsel is to assist the company in all its legal issues.

     

    Many people believe that working as an in-house counsel affords more work-life balance and is less demanding. What has been your experience?

    Law, as a profession is very demanding no matter where you are. You will be required to work all night or over the weekend if need be. You may have to cancel holiday plans for a last minute urgent case (like I did). So I would request all to dispel any misconception they may have about an in-house counsel having it easier than their law firm counterparts.

    However, the best part about working in a company is its HR practices e.g., leave policy. ITC, for example, encourages you to take a minimum of fifteen leaves a year, and also accommodates health and personal exigencies. This invariably contributes towards a better work-life balance.

     

    How can one apply for an internship at ITC?

    One can apply through his college placement committee. I am not in a position to comment on the second question, but I can say this much from personal experience that an academically sound resume opens all doors. If that is not the case, then one has to build an all-round CV to justify the lack of CGPA.

     

    debosmita-nandy1You have co-authored a book on forest laws and policies in India, and another on environment and wildlife laws in India. Tell us how did the idea of writing a book germinate and what prompted you to choose these specific topics?

    When I was in my fourth year, Dr. A. K. Poddar (our professor of Environment Laws) asked me if I was interested in contributing to a book that he was working on. I readily agreed and the result was publication of the book, Forest Laws and Policies in India by Regal Publications after almost 3 years!

    While I was working on this book, I gathered a lot of material on related topics. My co-author and I then tied up with a senior from college – Arjya B. Majumdar to compile another book, Environment and Wildlife Laws in India, which was published last year by LexisNexis. The first book happened by chance and thereafter, led to the second book.

     

    debosmita-nandy2Can you tell our readers about your short stories?

    I have continued to pursue my most favourite hobby i.e., creative writing through my blog as I am very passionate about it. My first short story appeared as part of Chicken Soup for Indian Soul On Friendship, published by Westland in 2011. Recently, I participated in a nationwide short-story writing contest organised by Rupa Publications where my entry won the second prize from the best-selling author, Anuja Chauhan. They also published it as part of an anthology An Atlas of Love, and it has received some good reviews.

     

    Given a chance to turn back the clock is there anything you would have done differently?

    Looking back, I believe that I am where I am only because of all the choices I made and the opportunities I got in the past. I have no regrets and so would not change a single thing.

  • Puneet Bhasin, Cyber Law Expert, Cyberjure Legal Consulting, on mooting, pursuing cyber law, and plans for the future

    Puneet Bhasin, Cyber Law Expert, Cyberjure Legal Consulting, on mooting, pursuing cyber law, and plans for the future

    Puneet Bhasin, graduated from  GLC, Mumbai in 2011. During her time as an undergraduate, she has interned with the likes of Fox Mandal Little and Advani & Co. In 2012 she went on to pursue a postgraduate diploma in Cyber Laws. She is currently a master candidate in the University of Mumbai, specializing in business laws with a focus in e-commerce laws and compliance.

    In this interview we speak to her about:

    • Winning the Surana & Surana Int’l Technology Law Moot
    • Choosing to pursue Cyber Law
    • Her internship experience

     

    How would you like to introduce yourself to our readers?

    I am an advocate practising in the area of Cyber Laws. It is a new and growing field. I started practice three years back after I graduated from Government Law College (Mumbai) with the B.L.S.LL.B. degree.  I was interested in this field from my first year in law college, and I did the Diploma in Cyber Laws from Asian School of Cyber Laws. This basic course made me realize that I wanted to pursue a career in this field and that is when in my second year in law college I became a Certified Cyber Crime Investigator. Subsequently, I did my Post Graduate Diploma in Cyber Laws in the fourth year of law college. Additionally in my final year, I did short courses in Intellectual Property Laws, Hacking & Cyber Security and E-Commerce Laws. I passed out from college in 2011 and started practicing on my own.

     

    Why did you decide to study law?

    While in school, I never thought of pursuing law, though many of my family members are lawyers and in judicial services. However, after the 12th Board exams, I came across the prospectus of Government Law College, and the subjects appealed to me. I read up more about them, and decided I wanted to pursue law; and within the first week of law college, I realized that this was probably the best decision I made in my life.

     

    What does it take to be a great mooter?

    (Puneet has won the Best Student Advocate Award at Surana and Surana International Technology Law Moot Court Competition.)

    It was God’s grace that I got many opportunities to participate in moots in college. Surana and Surana International Technology Law Moot Court Competition was one of the most memorable one for me. I was selected to represent GLC in this moot in my second year, and it gave me an opportunity to research on main law subjects, as till the second year we had only pre-law subjects. The moot problem surrounded a very interesting premise of “legal liability in cases of Augmented Reality”, which means that who is liable if a computer with artificial intelligence does something wrong.

    It is very important to be open to learning in order to excel in moots. Good research skills are a must along with excellent oratory skills. However, the more you participate in moots, the better you become.

    Moots give you practical experience to some extent. More than anything else, they teach you how to handle success and then deal with defeat also. When you win many moots and then you lose in a moot, it is a big set-back for your self-confidence, but it is very important for you to experience this as this is what real world litigation practice is all about. Winning and losing cannot affect you much at all as it is a part of practicing law. You learn to dissociate feelings of self-worth from practice.

     

    puneet-bhasin2Share some of your memorable mooting experiences.

    Surana and Surana International Technology Law Moot was a very memorable experience, and I was judged by the Director of Asian School of Cyber Laws in one of the rounds in that moot in 2008. Surprisingly, she remembered me even in 2011 and got in touch with me to teach Post Graduate Diploma in Cyber Laws in their institute. Moots definitely give you recognition and help build contacts.

    I participated in the Kanga Moot Court Competition in 2010 and we won the Best Team award along with Best Memorial. The moot problem was based on arbitration, and that is where I got interested in Arbitration and interned in this area of law also. One thing about mooting is that it gives you a chance to read up extensively on different subjects of law, and this helps you to know where your interest for practice lies.

    The Bar Council of Maharashtra and Goa moot was my first moot and it was in Ahmednagar. That was the first time I had gone to stay in the interiors of Maharashtra, and the simplicity of the students there was very impressive. I loved the experience of interacting with the law students there.

     

    What kind of internships did you do while you were a student?

    I interned in Fox Mandal Little and Co.  under Senior Partner Mr. Pal. He specializes in Shipping laws and I assisted him in matters. However, this experience made me realize that shipping laws was not my cup of tea. Then I interned under Managing Partner Mr. Khatlawala in Corporate Law arena,, and I did like it. I got to learn a lot. Under Junior Partner Ms. Rajni Divkar, I got the opportunity to assist in the drafting of Rules under a State Act.

    But soon Arbitration caught my fancy, and I landed up with an internship under Mr. Hiroo Advani, who is an expert in Arbitrations. I really liked working on arbitration matters and attending arbitration proceedings. In Advani and Co. I even worked on couple of Due Diligences, but soon realized that typical corporate law work like due diligence is probably not made for me.

    The internships gave me a clear insight on what I love doing and what I would prefer to avoid as a career choice with respect to legal practice. They made me more confident along with helping me build good networks in the legal fraternity.

     

    Do you think participating in extracurricular activities like MUNs is essential?

    (Puneet has been awarded Honorable Mention in Human Rights Council of GLC Model United Nations.)

    Any extra-curricular activity teaches a lot and mere participation makes us a better person and equips us with skills we did not have before. I used to actively participate in Debates, Moots and MUNs in college, and I felt that they made me more confident and improved my analytical and logical thinking skills.

    Students must participate in extra-curricular activities, not just to win, but to gain meaningful experience.

     

    How did you become interested in a career in cyber law?

    I realized that I had a profound interest in Cyber laws in my first year in law college, and I pursued this interest by doing further courses so that I could equip myself well to be able to practice in this area of law.

    Academic skills of cyber laws you can learn by doing courses on this subject, and practical skills you will learn only on the job.

     

    What were the difficulties you faced in shaping up your career as it stands today?

    Cyber law was a very new field at that time, with very few people practicing it. This had many advantages, as unlike many fields of law where seniority, experience and age matters, in cyber laws there was less competition three years back, and there was no question of seniority as it was a very nascent and new field.

    However, the major difficulty faced by me is that there are victims of cyber crimes everywhere, but they are ignorant of the law and don’t know that they can seek legal recourse.  I started blogging on cyber laws on http://indiancyberlawyer.wordpress.com and http://blog.ipleaders.in to create awareness about cyber crimes.

    In the initial stages of your career, patience is the key.

     

    A lot of people don’t understand the specialization of cyber law. Why do you think is this the case?

    Cyber laws are a very specialized field. A cyber lawyer is a techno-legal lawyer who is well-versed with technical aspects of computers, computer networks, communication devices and has complete legal knowledge including the special laws and rules applicable in techno-legal matters. Most evidence in criminal cases is obtained from cell phones or computers, and a cyber lawyer is the only one who can help in proper appreciation of such evidence or to find loop-holes to make such evidence inadmissible. Also, with the advent of E-Commerce, the concept of e-contracts and digital signatures has emerged, and only a cyber attorney would be able to advice with respect to the same. Intellectual Property Rights in cyber space is also a growing arena which requires lawyers proficient in technical aspects.  Cyber security standards are also governed by laws in India, and a cyber attorney is the only person who would be able to give sound advice on the same.

     

    Tell us something about being an Associate Member of Chartered Institute of Arbitrators (CIARB), UK.

    Affiliation to CIARB (UK) requires you to attend the course conducted by them and then submit your research on the topic given by them. The research paper is graded and if you get above B grade then you are qualified to pay the requisite fees and become an Associate Member of CIARB. This is the first step to become a Chartered Arbitrator.

    Lawyers who are interested in this should visit the CIARB website and enrol for their course in India.

     

    How do you go about teaching?

    (Puneet is also a faculty for Post Graduate Diploma in Cyber Laws at Asian School of Cyber Laws.)

    I love to teach cyber laws, and being a faculty gives me that opportunity. It keeps you in touch with the subject and also helps you to contribute to the growth of this field in India, by training lawyers and IT professionals in this field. Practicing law is very satisfying and lucrative, however, life as a professor is not as lucrative but it has a very feel good factor to it, as your students look upto you and you get a chance to shape their careers. Teaching is a very humbling experience.

     

    How important is social media engagement?

    Lawyers cannot advertise, and in specialized fields like cyber laws, it is impossible for people to know about the services you offer. Social media and blogging play the role of the bridge between a legal professional and potential clients.

     

    Where do you see yourself after five years from now?

    I would like to believe that with the growth of Cyber laws in India even my career will reach new heights in the next five years. Hopefully with God’s grace I would be able to make a lasting mark in the legal fraternity in the area of cyber laws.

     

    Do you accept interns with you? How does one apply?

    I do accept interns. I even take interns on a distance mode basis for research work. Anyone interested can apply with their resume to contact.cyberjure@gmail.com.

     

    Last but not the least, what would be your message for aspiring law practitioners?

    Law is an amazing field, and if you aspire to enter this field then you are definitely going to love it. Law involves a lot of human interaction, which is the best part of it. You get to learn new stuff about human nature each day, and in the process you change for the better each day. Good luck for your wonderful journey of becoming a lawyer!

     

  • Chintan Chinnappa, Senior Associate, Dua Associates, on law, litigation, and taking time out for his music

    Chintan Chinnappa, Senior Associate, Dua Associates, on law, litigation, and taking time out for his music

    Chintan Chinnappa graduated from M S Ramaiah College of Law, Bangalore in 2009. He is currently a Senior Associate at Dua Associates. While being a Senior Associate at a top tier litigation firm, Chintan also plays cricket for a club in Bangalore, manages a booking agency for artists, and never gave up on his passion for music. He is currently the lead guitarist at Inner Sanctum which is a Death/Thrash metal band from Bangalore, India.

    Chintan talks about:

    • Law school experience and Internships
    • Work at Dua as a Senior Associate
    • Taking time out for Inner Sanctum and other passions

     

    What brought you into studying law?

    I was born to a family of lawyers. My dad was a Judge in the High Court of Karnataka, my brother and sister-in-law (who incidentally also belongs to a family of lawyers) are practicing lawyers and my mom studied law, but never practiced. Surprisingly though, there wasn’t too much law at home while I was growing up. I am not really sure if that was intentional or whether my family just didn’t like bringing work home but I hardly heard them discuss matters or legal issues. To a large extent that gave me sufficient headroom to decide what I wanted to do with my life and take an independent decision. Cutting the long story short, I grew up, unlike most other kids, with immense respect for the profession and with a belief that lawyers saved lives. I was quite oblivious to the fact that this belief of mine was more or less solitary, in the sense that the rest of society didn’t seem to share the same feeling. This was thrust upon me once I had made my decision to study law but that didn’t really prompt to rethink my decision.

     

    Did you ever take part in moots when at college or indulge in academic legal writing?

    As a student I was quite focused about becoming a litigation attorney. I didn’t have any qualms about possibly having to work with/in less than ideal clients or work environments. So it was quite natural for me to moot in college and I loved it! I mooted for several years and was extremely passionate about it, and at times the passion bordered on insanity.
    I was quite fortunate to have a constant team through college and we skipped classes to work on a moot which was months away and have heated discussions in the library which would more often than not result in a few of us getting reported for causing a riot. Mooting left me with no time to indulge in academic legal writing. Honestly, that didn’t interest me as much. I preferred moots and internships and no matter how much value an article would have added to my CV I couldn’t convince myself to do something I wasn’t passionate about. That should probably answer the second half of your question as well. Students should be given the discretion to decide the activity that they would like to participate in. I would have resented giving up precious moot preparation time for an article that I didn’t wish to write. Compulsion causes more harm than good.

     

    Tell us something about your internship experience.

    Like I said, litigation was my calling and therefore all my internships were litigation centric. I didn’t feel the need to do a corporate internship. I interned with all the top litigation law firms/ offices in Bangalore such as Dua Associates, Poovayya & Co., Indus Law etc. I also interned with Mr. Aditya Sondhi and a few senior advocates, Mr. Udaya Holla and Mr. Naganand. In my final year, I did a clerkship with Justice Raveendran just after he was elevated to the Supreme Court.

     

    How different is getting hands-on experience at an internship, from learning legal theory in the university?

    There was a clear disparity between what I was made to learn in college and what I needed to learn to survive an internship. I personally believe that most universities haven’t figured out the purport of legal education. In fact, the only way to sort this out is for the universities to include in their training course (if there exists one) a compulsory three to six month internship for all professors in law firms and law offices. That’s the only way to bridge the gap.

     

    What kind of work did you typically find yourself doing as an intern?

    Primarily research work and drafting, not to mention the court visits and the complimentary illicit appearances before tribunals and lower courts.

    There was a huge disparity between internships in so far as the quality and quantity of work assigned to interns. A few offices understood the value of an extra hand and a few were just eager to hand over the ready to print certificate. It’s a mixed bag! But what was fascinating to me was that each office seemed to handle and structure their work differently. This was enormous learning for me and I spent most of my internships figuring out how I could finish the most amount of work in the least amount of time. The internships in effect gave me a peek into the functioning of a law office and helped me enormously in deciding which office to apply to after graduation, none of which I could have figured out just sitting in college.

     

    What do you feel about certain law colleges being supposedly more ‘elite’ than the others?

    I don’t really see the point of an ‘elite’ tag. All universities have the good and the bad graduating every year and this is more often than not the result of each student’s efforts in personal development. I have worked with students who have graduated from different universities, elite or otherwise and I don’t really see a sufficient difference to warrant the use of an elite tag.

     

    chintan-chinnappa1How do you take time out for your music?

    In addition to being a lawyer, I play cricket for a club in Bangalore, manage a booking agency for artists and also play guitars for a metal band called Inner Sanctum. It’s a Jekyll and Hyde situation on steroids! I have no idea how I manage all of this but I just love everything I do and I squeeze in as much as I can everyday to ensure I do enough justice to each of my passions.

     

    How do you feel the work life balance is working at law firms?

    I worked for a year, right out of college at Poovayya & Co. in Bangalore. Though it was and continues to be an excellent law firm, I didn’t see myself fitting into the overall scheme of things there and I decided to leave them in Aug, 2010. I immediately applied to Dua as I was extremely serious about litigation in Bangalore and Dua Associates is renowned for quality litigation work and a great working environment.  I joined them in Oct 2010 and it has been a good four years! The team is excellent and the firm accommodates and encourages the associates to pursue their passions and maintain a healthy work-life balance. That’s how I manage to keep my band alive!

     

    What does a usual day at Dua look like for you?

    Like I said, I am part of the litigation team in Dua and therefore all the work associated to litigation I am required to do which includes appearing in courts, drafting, briefing senior counsel etc. As a Senior Associate, the firm expects me to perform certain additional functions in relation to team building and team leading. Honestly, that isn’t too hard because we are fortunate to have an excellent team.

     

    What do you feel makes an intern stand out and is very important for him to do to have a chance of getting a call back or even a PPO?

    Confidence and the ability and desire to learn. If an intern has this, it most often than not results in a PPO.

     

    Picture Credits: Prateek Biswas

  • Jaya Godhwani, LL.M. candidate, Maastricht University,on pursuing forensic science, and her internship experience

    Jaya Godhwani, LL.M. candidate, Maastricht University,on pursuing forensic science, and her internship experience

    Jaya Godhwani pursued a science and law combination degree from KIIT, Bhubaneshwar, batch of 2013. She is currently pursuing a masters in law from Maastricht University, specialising in forensics, criminology, and law.

    In this interview, we speak to her about:

    • Interning with Senior Advocate Ram Jethmalani
    • Critical details for a career in Forensic Science
    • Her LL.M. experience from the Maastricht University.

     

    Tell us about your life before college. Did you have lawyers in your family?

    Ah! I feel nostalgic. Well, when I was a child the world seemed to be a place of joy and happiness to me. There was nothing to worry about. I am the youngest child in my family. Since my childhood years I have been very active. My mom and my school teachers say that since my schooldays I have leadership qualities in me. I was determined and very hard working during those days as I am now. I was always keen to participate in the debates, recitations, and other extracurricular activities. I represented my school in many inter school debate competitions and brought laurels to my school by winning few of the competitions.

    My whole family is into business. I was the first child to step out of my hometown to do something different. Subsequently, I inspired my other young family members towards this profession. My younger cousin is pursuing BB.A. LL.B. from KIIT University.

     

    Why did you decide to study Law?

    I still remember this one instance in my life very clearly when I made up my mind to study and pursue my career in law.  In 2006, when I just cleared my 10th Standard, I had to fill a form in which I had to choose my subjects for class XI. I never wanted to choose Science/Biology because I saw my elder sister working day in and out on those bulky botany and zoology files, and the dissections which she used to do. On the 7th of May 2006, my dad made me read an interview of a girl who did her BSc. LL.B. from NLU Jodhpur and Prof. NL Mitra’s view on B.Sc. LL.B. and its booming career in India. Second page of the newspaper had some information about Forensic Science and its relation with law, how it’s used in courtrooms, and the dilemma faced by judges with respect to its admissibility in the cases. Those newspaper articles sparked my interest, as it was really challenging to work and gain in depth knowledge in those dimensions of legal sphere which were untouched, unheard and fascinating. In those fractions of a second I just opted for Science/Biology as a subject for my Class XI. It was then, in 2006, I decided to pursue B.Sc. LL.B.

     

    What have your internship experience been like?

    When a student enters a law school he/she is not much aware about different sectors related to law. He/she learns from their seniors and teachers how to play the cards and learn the rules of the game slowly. Same thing happened to me. When I entered the law school I had no idea about internships and how to get them. My college formed a placement and internship cell in 2008 when I entered the law school. I was chosen as a member of that placement and internship cell. It was then I learned from my mentors about internships in law firms and in the litigation sectors. I wanted to explore both areas so as to decide for myself where I wish to head.  Therefore, all the decisions with respect to internships were taken very rationally and cautiously because I was warned since day one that these things play a vital role in framing Resume. So after talking to many people around, and most importantly not forgetting my area of interest, I decided my internships majorly in litigation sector.

     

    jaya-godhwani2How did you get the opportunity to intern at the Chamber of Senior Advocate Mr. Ram Jethmalani?

    Grabbing an internship under eminent criminal lawyer Mr Ram Jethmalani was my dream since 2006, when I decided to pursue my career in B.Sc. LL.B. You can say it was like a miracle for me to get internship under him. He used to come to our college to deliver lectures during the International Law Weeks. During one of his visit to my college, I approached him personally and spoke to him about my interest in Forensic Law and expressed my desire to intern under him. He asked me a few questions related to Forensic Law, and personally offered me an internship. My happiness knew no boundaries; I wasn’t able to believe that I actually laid my hands on my dream internship in the third year of my law school.

     

    Our readers would be keen to know how you went about securing your internships.

    The first rule taught to me by my dad and teachers was never narrow down your scope. A lawyer should know everything. So I worked in that direction. My faculty and seniors helped me build my blocks. I chose to explore NGOs, Law Firms, and Sole Practitioners to observe closely their working patterns. Apart from Forensics, I gradually developed an interest in Intellectual Property Rights due to Professor. Dr Tabrez Ahmed, one of the most intellectual teachers in the IPR Field.  Therefore, under his guidance I started targeting all the top firms which worked in those sectors, because I knew, I would willingly give my best in those internships. After securing enough of good internships, my other teacher Mr. Kumar Kartikeya and Mrs. Parimita Dash pushed me to explore the world of mooting, because according to them, a law student should also know how it feels to plead before the Honourable judges.

    The most important thing according to me, which I kept in mind while framing my CV, was maintaining an adequate balance in all the areas, i.e. internships, moot courts, publications and extra-curricular activities.

     

    How did you develop an interest in Forensic Sciences?

    Since my early years in school, I loved to take up challenges. After reading an article in the newspaper which talked about forensic science and related issues confronted by Indian Judiciary System, which inspired me to opt forensic law. DNA test, Fingerprints, Saliva test and other areas of forensics, sounded fascinating and interesting. The decision to pursue my career in this particular field, strengthened when I interned in the Directorate of Forensic Science.

    Forensic Law is at a very nascent stage in India.  Therefore, according to me, many lawyers are not much aware about this particular field of law. As far as my knowledge goes, I don’t think so many people pursue this course.

     

    Tell us your experience interning at the Directorate of Forensic Sciences.

    Indeed, it was amazing experience. I worked in the Ballistic department, where I examined the firearms so as to determine the nature and type of weapons used in the crime, linked fired bullets/ cartridges with the suspect weapons.

    I also worked in the Chemistry department, where I was assisting an expert in a dowry death case, in which I examined the burnt clothe samples. Different questions, like whether kerosene or something else was used to burn the lady, and I also learnt about  chemical  analysis of exhibits such as the viscera, biological fluids, trap cases, dowry death cases, acids and various others exhibits referred by the Investigating Agencies. Viscera including biological fluids are examined for poison detection in cases of homicides and suicides.

    Finally, I along with my other co interns made a report on the status of forensic laboratories in India.

    Overall, my experience at forensic laboratory was eye opening, as I learnt how it gave new dimensions to criminal justice system, by unfolding the truth.

     

    What is the procedure for an internship application with the Directorate of Forensic Sciences?

    I raise my serious doubt if one can get an internship directly under Directorate of Forensic Science. There are no specific guidelines regarding framing of application for this internship. In my case, University Grants Commission (UGC) was looking for motivated students, in 2009, to work and prepare a report on the current status of Forensic Science Laboratories in India. So, some of the students from my course applied and we were fortunate enough to get an opportunity to work for that research project. As a result, I was offered an internship in the Directorate of Forensic Sciences.

     

    Are there any opportunities to study the subjects you chose to specialize in your LL.M. in India?

    Well, NLU, Jodhpur offers an LL.M. in Forensics, Criminology and Law in India and some of the Government Institutes also offer the same course. After working in the Directorate of Forensic Science and after learning that, Scandinavian countries are the world’s best when it comes to forensic law, which motivated me to study abroad.

    Additionally, the lack of knowledge about the subject in Indian legal sphere intrigued me more towards foreign university. I really wanted to explore how they are different from us and what we have to do to come to their level. Moreover, I wanted to know the reason, why serious crime rate is so less in these countries. I found out that the Netherlands is one of the countries in the world which has the lowest crime rate because of their stringent forensic law and use of advanced technology to curb the crime. This urge of knowing and learning things brought me to the Netherlands to study Forensics, Criminology and Law.

     

    How did you go about choosing which college to go to for your LL.M. and did you ever consider Indian colleges?

    It is one of the most important decisions in one’s life to choose the right college and program for your higher studies. If you don’t do that properly, then you don’t enjoy it and you end up in no men’s land.

    As the trend goes, I spoke to my seniors who already got themselves enrolled in Master’s Programs. I think they are the best persons to guide you about these things because they have a pretty fair idea what went wrong with their applications or what better they could have done. So, I started hunting for colleges on www.LLMguide.com which suited my area of interest and shortlisted few of them. I made few friends from abroad when I represented my college in International Youth Forum 2011 in Russia; I spoke to them about those universities which were there in their hometown. Furthermore, I also looked at the faculties, the structure, the library and the guest lecturers of the universities. I got in touch with the alumni of those universities through social network sites, and inquired about relevant information and then shortlisted universities. Frankly speaking, I never wanted to pursue LL.M. from India so I never considered any Indian college as an option for my post graduate studies.

    For me, Maastricht University was the best as it met all my desired criteria. Of course, like for every student, the university and course both matter, same goes for me. After learning that Maastricht University is ranked 6th among the top 100 best young universities worldwide, my decision became more firm to pursue my master from Maastricht. The course offered by them was the best when compared to the other universities in which I applied. It was exactly what I wanted to do. So, the course coupled with University ranking were the factors which played major role in deciding the college.

     

    Are there any scholarships for studying at the Maastricht University?

    I was lucky enough to get a UM High Potential Student Scholarship at Maastricht University. So I didn’t face any difficulties in terms of finances and other things. Regarding accommodation, Maastricht University has their own website where you can easily find accommodation if you have a subscription.

    There are scholarships available for Non-European students at Maastricht University. For further details on the scholarship you can visit the scholarship page at the Maastricht University official website.

     

    How is the faculty & academic schedule at Maastricht?

    I am really impressed by the faculty of the Maastricht University. All the staff members are engaged in highly qualified scientific research programmes and incorporate the findings of their research activities in the different courses.  The connection with real life cases is also enhanced by means of apprenticeships and guest lectures. They are just not into purely academics; some are Directors of Forensic Laboratory, Attorneys, Public Prosecutors, Young Lawyers, and Honourable Judges of the Supreme Court. Therefore, they teach us the applicability of law in practical world. So apart from theoretical insights they emphasise on real world practice.

    The Maastricht University has an innovative problem-based learning approach. It is a student centred instructional method widely used at the University. In all courses we have a tutorial group where we prepare, discuss and formulate learning goals for next session. The student reads and discusses all the literature in the tutorial and the tutor (instructor) acts as a catalyst, rendering help when and where it is required. This allows us to develop an independent approach and enhances our research skills. Moreover, it helps us to think in a new dimension.

    So my typical day starts like any other student in Maastricht. I grab a Bun and head towards university, for my tutorial or lecture. When it is a tutorial session, the whole week I have to study more than 3000-5000 pages to prepare myself for class discussions. Sometimes, I have to submit assignments every week, which make my routine more hectic. Lectures sessions are always pretty relaxed as compared to tutorials as I have fewer pages to read.

    Frankly speaking, personally in India, I didn’t at all prepare anything before the classes, I used to sit and listen what the teacher said. But here things are the other way round, I have to understand the literature first, on my own, and then in tutorials I have to share and express my views and thoughts about the same. If at all my way of thinking is wrong or different than my fellow students, they share his or her view and the tutor at the end use to address in general about the things. So according to me, in India things were pretty relaxed and flexible.

     

    What more do you believe Indian Universities should provide to the students?

    I am really impressed by the teaching method adopted by the Maastricht University. Especially the tutorial sessions, where though we don’t have any background or knowledge about those new subjects, but still we are asked to prepare for tutorial sessions. We then discuss the texts we have read and then it ends as a productive and interactive session. Here, we learn from other fellow students as well as from the teacher. So the learning process which takes place here is unparalleled. I think Indian Universities should also adopt these kind of approaches, which will help students to read, learn and think independently and in a different dimensions altogether.

     

    Was there time enough for non academic pursuits at Maastricht?

    I think one should always learn to balance things in life. In legal profession, you need to have contacts and socialization/networking is the best method. So, yes I do take out time from my busy schedule to hangout with my classmates. In fact, I also organised two Indian Events at Maastricht with the help of the Dutch Municipality. One of the events which I organised was Holi Festival for my foreign classmates. I think it is always good to showcase your culture to your international friends; this is how they will learn about your culture and vice versa.

    So after hectic weekdays we do organise some or the other class events on the weekends, just to relax and know a bit more about each other.

     

    Do you think higher studies are a necessity for a successful legal professional?

    According to me, the more knowledge you gain the better it is for you. I was always determined to go for higher studies. So well, in my case I do agree that it was necessary for me as I wanted to gain in-depth knowledge in such complex areas of law. I do wish to pursue my career in criminal law therefore, I thought a Master Degree would be more helpful as I wished to know how to read and interpret forensic reports in criminal cases.

    My suggestion to law students would be – if you think your area of interest demands more research in that field, then definitely you should go for higher studies. Exploring new dimensions and expanding the horizons is always beneficial. Afterwards, one can always get into good law firms first as a trainee and then as an employee. If not that, then a PhD in law is also good option, as it would be wonderful to have young and bright intellectuals in the academic sphere.

     

    What are your future plans? How do you plan to use the experience and the knowledge gathered at Maastricht?

    I would love to work in a Forensic Science Laboratory in the Netherlands but it is not so easy to get through because of the confidentiality and national security clauses of the country. Meanwhile, I am working on a project related to forensic science, which I hope gets approved by the European Union and the Indian Government, in near future. So by the end of August things will be clearer to me.

    In the future, I would love to come back to my country and practice in the criminal law field.

     

    And any word of advice for all the young law students out there?

    I don’t think so it is possible to do something without dreams. So, dream high and work hard to achieve your goals. Dreams do come true. Make as many contacts as possible during your life journey, you never know when and how somebody can help you to turn your dreams into reality.