Super Lawyer

Category: Associates, In-House Counsels and Advocates

  • Kapil Duggal on declining AMSS PPO for an Indian LL.M, driving NLIU MCC to zenith and being a batch topper

    Kapil Duggal on declining AMSS PPO for an Indian LL.M, driving NLIU MCC to zenith and being a batch topper

    Kapil Duggal is the topper of NLIU Batch of 2014 (set to receive the Gold Medal on 15 November), who bagged a PPO at Amarchand & Mangaldas & Suresh A. Shroff & Company, an accomplished mooter, a successful Convenor of Moot Court Association (Took NLIU from #23 to #1 on the MPL and retained the numero uno position for 4 months), a debater and sportsman among others.

    In this interview, he talks about:

    • His experience in taking NLIU from Rank 23 to Rank 1 in MPL
    • Choosing Masters at NLIU over PPO from AMSS
    • Few tips on framing C.V.

     

    How would you like to introduce yourself to our readers? What motivated you to choose law as a career?

    I am a 2014 batch graduate from National Law Institute University, Bhopal. I would like to take this interview as an opportunity to share my views and insights on life in a law school and career decisions that a law student has to take.

    Law was not my first choice. I was pursuing engineering when at the end of the first Semester, I realized that I was not cut out to be an engineer. A couple of friends suggested me that I should look at law as a career option. I browsed through their preparation material for CLAT, it caught my eye, and a few months later, I ended up at NLIU, Bhopal.

     

    You’ve done your graduation from NLIU and currently pursuing Masters there. How would you describe your experience?

    Well my experience has been nothing short of fantastic! I’ve got the opportunity to explore many dimensions of my personality. For instance, I had never participated in any public speaking event/competition when I was in school. And one year into law school, I was representing my University at the United Asians Debating Championship in Bangkok, followed by another National Debating Championship at NLU, Delhi.

    National Law Universities provide you with plethora of opportunities in every field. I led the University basketball team at various National Sports Fests like Spiritus, Virudhaka, Yuvardha and Sportomania.

    I also organized the first round table conference on Need for Legal Regulation of Coaching Institutions, wherein after debating and discussing the nitty-gritty of the subject with all the stakeholders, we drafted a paper and forwarded the recommendations to Ministry of Consumer Affairs, Food & Public Distribution, Government of India.

    NLIU also gave me the opportunity to interact with many legal luminaries and have discussions with them over a vast range of subjects. I will never forget my discussion with (Retd.) Justice VS Sirpurkar regarding the challenges faced by the judiciary and the criminal justice system, when he visited our campus for delivering a Guest Lecture and was kind enough to spare some time from his schedule to interact with the students. I also organized a guest lecture by Senior Advocate Ms. Geeta Luthra on Trial by Media, which is cherished by students of NLIU till date.

    So it has been an incredible experience at NLIU, which was one of the reasons I opted to pursue the Master’s degree at the same institution.

     

    You have been among the top rankers during your college days. What are the tips and strategies you would like to share with our readers who are currently law students?

    Sincerity and dedication are one of the most essential factors to be considered. One need not entirely focus on reading the course material. It might even be tedious at times. A rather interesting approach, which worked well for me, is to read latest judgments on the subject. Actual cases in a courtroom are not quite simple and straightforward, and involve interplay of multiple provisions and in many cases, of multiple statutes. And a Supreme Court judgment would usually trace the first case which dealt with the subject and eventually come to the contemporary interpretation before finally arriving at a conclusion. So by reading one judgment, a law student can understand multiple provisions while getting acquainted with landmark cases.

     

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    You were the Convenor of the Moot Court Association at NLIU and during your tenure, NLIU gave its one of the best ever performance in mooting circles. How did you achieve such a feat and what skills do you get to hone while managing such a responsibility?

    NLIU had ended up at #23 on the MPL in 2013 and that’s when I assumed the office of Convenor, MCA. I straightaway took up the challenge of taking NLIU to the zenith. I reviewed the existing policies, inspired the mooters to put it in their 100%, and created a moot pool specially for our First Years students, so that we could groom them and send them for national competitions in their freshman year itself. Our alumni were very supportive and gave us their valuable inputs whenever necessary. Consequently, we were able to achieve #1 on the MPL and retain that position for 4 months i.e. for about one-third of my tenure. Even our mooters from the First Year brought home 4 awards in the moots they participated in.

     

    You have also judged the 5th NLIU-Juris Corp Moot this year. What is your advice to budding mooters? What factors do you think contributed to your success?

    The first step to success in a moot court is doing good research. And once you are standing before a judge, you should be in a position to argue your case without even glancing at your memorial. You ought to know the facts and the law on your fingertips.

    Having argued before a total of 10 Supreme Court and High Court judges in different moot courts, I’ve experienced that the situation in final round(s) of a moot court is generally a bit different from all other rounds because sitting/retired SC/HC judges would be on the bench, and they generally don’t appreciate inferences drawn from the factsheet, for want of evidence. So you must modify your strategy and strictly argue on points of law.

     

    How helpful do you think is mooting for a law student? Does it serve to build any practical skill?

    Absolutely. First of all, mooting helps improve your researching skills, which prove to be a great asset during one’s internships. Secondly, since you have to argue on behalf of both the petitioner/appellant and the respondent, you get to train yourself in applying the same law to opposite situations and thereby get to learn interpretation of statutes, which is one skill you hardly get to develop in academics. Thirdly, you get to keep yourself updated of legal aspects of contemporary issues as mostly, moot problems are drafted on contemporary issues.

     

    What would you say differentiates between the best speakers and the rest? What are the top three things you consider sine qua non for being a great speaker?

    Knowing the law- both for and against a proposition, ability to put your best points forward effectively in the given time frame and, and ability to take the bench with you on every point are the things that differentiate a good mooter from other participants. Equally important is knowing when to concede a point and taking the decision of moving to the next argument. This comes only by experience.

     

    You secured a PPO from AMSS during fourth year of your graduation. Still, you wrote CLAT and joined NLIU for Masters. What prompted you to leave a lucrative career opportunity and pursue LL.M from an Indian University? Was it a part of your long term plan?

    Interning with AMSS was a great experience, it’s a terrific place to work. I liked the work there, and would have loved to join AMSS. Senior Advocate Ms. Geeta Luthra had a profound effect on my decision-making. She along with Professor (Dr.) S.S. Singh and Prof. (Dr.) Kumar Kartikeya guided me to the nuances of a career in litigation and inspired me to take it up. I intend to practice in the field of Constitutional and Administrative Law (after completing my LL.M degree). It made more sense to me to undertake an in-depth study and analysis of laws that I would be dealing with on a day-to-day basis, as against pursuing LLM from a foreign university, where I wouldn’t have got an opportunity to do so. NLIU, Bhopal being one of the top universities in the country and the only top institution offering a course on Constitutional & Administrative Law, made my decision easier.

     

    What kind of work did you come across during your internship at AMSS? What are the things you consider sine qua non for positive feedback from an internship?

    I worked with Project Finance and Litigation teams of AMSS, Mumbai. The nature of work included drafting, preparing research notes including for some very interesting topics like law regarding spot-fixing in cricket, etc.

    Sticking to deadlines, formidable research work, making sure that your work is updated with latest case laws are sine qua non for a positive feedback. You must be thorough in the work you are submitting for you can be called at any time and asked to give details regarding the cases you have cited, if the associate finds them of great use.

     

    Did you have to undergo an interview before securing your PPO? Any tips on how one should go about framing a C.V. and prepare for an interview?

    While drafting your C.V., you must precisely state the topics which you have worked upon during your internships. You must also keep yourself updated of any new developments regarding them. Customize your CV according to the firm/company/lawyer you are applying for, and stress on those parts of your work experience which hold value for them. If your CV is heavily loaded with co-curricular activities, you can cut down on the section of extra-curricular activities in your CV.

    I was interviewed by AMSS as well as by Khaitan & Co. for a PPO. I received an offer from AMSS first and hence I requested Khaitan & Co. to allow me to opt out from the PPO process and they were kind enough to oblige. You must read up on the topics that you have worked on during your internship, including the latest developments. Having knowledge of the market situation and practical aspects is definitely a plus point. You should not miss out on reading up even a single topic which you have mentioned in your CV. You should also be able to readily answer any question regarding the field of law you would like to specialize in, which should be supported by your CV (you should have written papers/articles or participated in moot courts/conference relating to that field of law). These would significantly help you in preparing for an interview.

     

    Lastly, what would be your message for our readers?

    You must make the most out of your vacations. Intern with a lawyer/firm whenever you get an opportunity to do so, for you will learn the practical aspects of what you read in law school, which will give you an edge over others. Also, manage your time wisely and do take out time for your hobbies/sports, so that you enjoy your time while in law school.

  • Jayantika Ganguly on being a corporate lawyer at AMSS, and Khaitan & Co.

    Jayantika Ganguly on being a corporate lawyer at AMSS, and Khaitan & Co.

    Jayantika Ganguly graduated from WB National University of Juridical Sciences, Kolkata, back in 2008. She has thereafter worked at Amarchand & Mangaldas & Suresh A Shroff & Co (“AMSS”) for more than three years, and is currently working as a Senior Associate at Khaitan & Co. (“KCo”).

    We asked her to share her journey from being a law student to being a corporate lawyer.

     

    Given that most of our readers are law students and young lawyers, how will you introduce yourself to them?

    “Hello, Lawdroids! Greetings from a sample of Lawdroid Ice-cream Sandwich!”

    <Disclaimer: I do not own the terms “Lawdroids” or “Ice-cream Sandwich” and these are merely being used for representative purposes.>

     

    Back in 2003, NUJS was a fairly new institute. What motivated you to choose law as a career?

    It might sound a tad fickle, but law was simply the most interesting option for me at that stage. Law was exciting and a heady blend of the secure and intrepid – which just felt right.Perhaps a side-effect of growing up on detective stories!

    NUJS was fairly new back then (we were the fourth batch) – but we had the legendary Dr Madhava Menon as the Vice Chancellor! The rank #3 in the entrance exam helped, too.

     

    In retrospect how would you compare NUJS with other premier law institutions of the country?

    NUJS is undoubtedly one of the best. As an alumnus, my hindsight might be a little more rose-tinted than reality – but NUJS did a great job of not only training us in law, but also preparing us for our professional lives. The courses, internships, projects, moots, extra-curricular activities – it was all great. I think NUJS might have one of the most active student populations amongst the law schools. It certainly gave us a twinkle in our eye and a swagger in our stride.

     

    How did your recruitment at AMSS take place? How do you recall your anticipation of the job offer?

    Campus recruitment – our Placement Committee did a spectacular job. The procedure was fairly standard – CVs were sent, shortlisted students were called in for a Group Discussion, and further selected students were called in for individual interviews. I remember frantically reading the Companies Act before the scheduled date – but in the end, it wasn’t required. We were tested for our aptitude, oratory and analytical skills.

     

    Many lawyers would say that the actual learning takes place in the years of practice. How far would you say it is true? What was the case in your situation?

    I would take that statement with a grain of salt – but then, this is my personal opinion. I feel the internships and the way they are structured in law schools are very advantageous and we are not caught unawares upon joining a firm/company. You study a subject, and then you get to apply your knowledge during your summer internship. I certainly learnt a lot this way. Obviously we do not learn everything in college and during internships – but we definitely gain a general idea of how things function, and that is what ultimately influences the decision on where to work.

     

    You worked at AMSS for more than three years before joining KCo. Being the largest law firm in India, how did it shape up your work profile?

    At AMSS, I worked in the Project Finance team. Headline-grabbing deals and late nights were the norm. It was a fantastic learning experience – fast and glamorous.

     

    After having worked at AMSS for more than 3 years how did the shift to KCo take place?

    The move to Kolkata, for family reasons, was the operative factor. By a happy coincidence, KCo Kolkata was looking to recruit and I got lucky!

     

    What does your current work profile at KCo consist of? How is a typical workday like?

    At KCo, I am a part of the Corporate Team, so I get to work on a wider range of transactions here. A typical work day would have a few phone calls, a meeting or two thrown in, some discussion sessions and a lot of emails, document review and drafting.
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    It’s been six years of your work experience in corporate law. What would you say contributes to the high attrition rate of the top law firms?

    There are a fair number of reasons. A lot of lawyers wish to work for a few years before going in for their Masters degree. Some move either out of a desire for change or for personal reasons. In my opinion, though, the biggest culprits behind high attrition rates are burnouts and breakdowns. The frantic pace and glory of big deals feels amazing at the beginning – but gradually, it gets exhausting. Health problems start cropping up – and that is when most people leave. Some are able to adapt, some are able to change their lifestyle and continue. This is more common with first jobs, I think, because as students, we are unable to accurately gauge what we are getting into – we are too star-struck. Also, the elation of the first all-nighter, the euphoria of a successful closing, the excitement of seeing your deal in a newspaper, the feeling of being ‘important’ – these are all quite addictive, so, more often than not, we tend to ignore our health concerns until something goes seriously wrong.

     

    In these six years you must have guided a lot of interns at AMSS and KCo. What do you think differentiates a good intern from the rest?  How can an intern make a positive impression in the limited time they have?

    The best interns I have seen are prompt and meticulous. The characteristics of a good intern are pretty much the same as the characteristics of a good associate. Take your deadlines seriously. If you don’t have the bandwidth to take on additional assignments, say it upfront and request an extended deadline if possible – if not, check with the senior for priorities. Listen to instructions carefully – ask questions if you do not understand. Be meticulous. No one will penalise an intern for not knowing an obscure detail of law – but silly mistakes, shoddy submissions are not good. Do your research well and be prepared to answer questions on the assignment you have been given.

     

    Life for lawfirmites can be very hectic at times. What is your take on work-life balance? How do you unwind?

    Work-life balance is very important to me. I think it is a somewhat misunderstood concept. Work-life balance does not mean that you leave your time-sensitive transaction hanging and wander off because your work-hours are over – that is simple irresponsibility. What it means is that you do your work to the best of your ability, but you also keep some time to yourself, indulge in something you are passionate about, and you also keep an eye on your wellbeing. It is about finding a passion beyond your work and making time for it. It will have a positive effect on your work efficiency as well, as you will be more organised and work down the priority list.

    There are plenty of unwinding activities I indulge in. I love travelling – be it for work or leisure – and I try to travel as much as I can. I also fancy (or, perhaps, delude) myself to be a bit of a writer. I like to explore new cuisines and new languages. I am an avid Sherlockian as well – and a fan of music, art, dance and drama.

     

    Many young law students want to have a flourishing career in corporate law. What would be your advice to the future corporate lawyers?

    Other than thoroughly studying the corporate laws, keep abreast of the market news. Being up-to-date on information as well as laws is important. Try and intern with companies as well as law firms – this will give you a well-rounded idea about how things work on both sides. Hone your drafting and negotiation skills – this will form a major chunk of your work hours.

  • Apeksha Mehta on trimester system at NLIU, tips on C.V. and work at LKS

    Apeksha Mehta on trimester system at NLIU, tips on C.V. and work at LKS

    apeksha-mehta-2Apeksha Mehta is a graduate from National Law Institute University, Bhopal (Batch of 2014). She has participated in various co-curricular activities and has multiple publications to her name. Her diligence paid off when she received a job offer from Lakshmikumaran & Sridharan (LKS) in her 5th year of law school. Currently, she is working as an Associate there. We asked her to share her experiences and strategies she used over the years.

    In this interview, Apeksha talks about:

    • Trimester system at NLIU
    • Importance of co-curricular activities
    • Few tips on framing CV
    • Securing a job at LKS

     

    Tell us about your pre-college life as well as educational background. Why did you decide to study law?

    I belong to Ratlam in Madhya Pradesh and I completed my schooling from the same place. I have always been an average student. However, I think I managed fairly well, despite my sluggish attitude towards studies. I am a first generation lawyer in my family. My interest in law developed gradually when I started exploring the options I  had after 12th standard. I researched about law schools, the subjects, design of the five year law course and the opportunities it bestows thereafter and found it akin to my liking.

     

    First year of law school usually determines a lot about how the rest of the four years will be. It can also be very challenging. What was your experience?

    I will not prefer to call it challenging. Law school or for that matter any professional degree course is a start of a new phase in a student’s life. It is different, it amuses you and you are more than ready to go with the flow. First year of law school actually determines very little about the coming four years. But, it anyways builds your foundation. It teaches you how to go about the rest of the college life. Every year is a new experience in itself. I scored decently in the first trimester which developed a sense of fear regarding the coming trimesters as to keeping the score constant since every trimester introduced heavier subjects than the last trimester.  But the first year of law school I think is the best amongst all the years as there is comparatively less pressure and far less competition.

     

    One can find it difficult to manage continuous evaluation through trimester exams, projects, submissions, etc. in a law school. How did you manage your studies?

    Many people from other colleges think that a trimester system is difficult to manage. However, if you get into the routine of studying in a trimester system, it isn’t very difficult at the end of the day. It might get exhausting at some point of time, but it doesn’t entirely tire you out. All you need to have is interest in what you are pursuing and the rest follows.

     

    How much time does it take to manage academics properly in a law school like NLIU, especially in light of the trimester system?

    According to me, it should take you two trimesters at the most. Everything is new for a student in the first trimester. But, by the end of the first trimester itself, you start understanding how much more you need to put in to score good, or how frequently you need to participate in the co-curricular or extra-curricular activities. Of course, such realisation strikes only if you make the effort of planning out your schedule for the coming trimester.

     

    How would you describe your time at NLIU-Bhopal? What are the co-curricular activities you took part at NLIU?

    NLIU brought about a lot changes in how I perceived things before joining college. I got a lot more disciplined towards my studies. As a law student, I became more aware and more responsive towards my surroundings. National Law Schools offer ample of opportunities to explore one’s area of interest within law. I was more inclined towards paper publications and presentations. I have presented a paper entitled ‘Fairness Opinion of Independent Directors in Takeovers’ at a conference on independent directors at NLU, Jodhpur. I have also written an article entitled ‘Dumping: It’s Fair Unless it’s all Politics’ published in the A38 Journal of International Law.

     

    Which internships that you have pursued will you consider to be right at the top and why? Tell us about some interesting internship experiences.

    My internship experience at Nishith Desai Associates is what I would describe as the best. The variety of work and the work culture that I got to experience there was amazing. Besides Nishith Desai Associates, Jyoti Sagar Associates and Link Legal were also very good learning experiences. The appreciation for good work that you get as an intern boosts your morale. Internships also polish your research skills. While interning at Link Legal, I was asked to research on execution of a high court order in case of a merger. The client did not want to go ahead with the merger despite the order being passed by the court. I researched and found some noteworthy cases which helped save the client thus putting me in the good books of the partner and also helped me secure a call back.

     

    What are the skills you learned from internships? How did you ensure that you get noticed during internships for the work you do?

    Apart from a drastic improvement in your research skills, internships bring you a lot closer to how law works in real life. You apply the law to real life facts and hence, it helps you to learn to read between the lines and deduce the point of law which the client may have missed or may have misinterpreted. It also teaches you that sometimes there is no solution to the client’s problem and brings you out of the fantasy world of Mike Ross and Harvey Spector who always manage to find a solution for the client. Internships teach you a lot about the benefits of socialising, networking and also how do you deal with the expectations of a client. The best part about interning is that it keeps you posted regarding the industry.

     

    What brought you towards Tax Law?

    When my fifth year started and the time for placements was near, I decided I will not narrow down my choices to some particular areas of law. I knew I want to start my career with a law firm job and that was my sole aim. I had a previous internship experience with LKS and so I had an idea of the kind of work they do. Nothing about tax was new to me as such and hence, I did not mind giving myself a chance to work in this area.

     

    You secured a job at Lakshmikumaran & Sridharan (LKS) in your 5th year of law school. How did you go about achieving this?

    If you know what the recruiter expects from the person sitting in front of them, it gets a little easier to crack the interview. At the time LKS came to our campus, they had a 5 day lecture series scheduled, which gave us a fair idea about the working of the firm, work culture, the areas of law they deal in and what do they expect from freshers who join them. I also had the advantage of an internship experience at LKS, so I think I was in a better position as compared to others to decipher the expectations of the recruiter.

    LKS basically doesn’t expect you to know the tax law at length. What they expect is that you know the basic law and you have enough sincerity to join the firm. I studied the basics of indirect and direct taxation apart from whatever else was there on my CV.

     

    How many times did you intern at LKS before you bagged the job offer? Please tell us about the recruitment application process at LKS?

    I interned at LKS once at the end of my third year. I got recruited through the campus recruitment program in our college. The campus recruitment program at LKS involves shortlisting of CV’s of candidates who are desirous to sit for the interview. Thereafter, an interview is conducted with each of the shortlisted candidates.

     

    What kind of questions were you asked during the interview with LKS?

    They started off with making me comfortable by asking me about my city and family. Eventually, they started asking questions from the LKS internship and other internships. The majority of questions related to indirect taxation (sales tax, service tax and excise law) from my LKS internship, SEZ/EOU related questions, a few IPR related questions and FDI related questions from my other internships. They also asked me questions related to the certificate courses I pursued in Maritime Law and Legal and Financial Services.

     

    How do you think one should go about writing a CV when one is applying for a job?

    One should definitely very clearly mention the work done during the internships. Recruiters pay a lot more attention on the variety of work that the candidate has undertaken. A diversified CV is an interesting CV. Internship is not a time for you to select one area of law or practice and continue interning in the same. The idea is to explore and keep exploring until you find what interests you. Also, from my personal experience, if you are keen on getting through a law firm at the starting of your career, you should start interning in law firms right after your second year. Getting a job also depends a lot on the grades that you score. You need not be the topper of your batch, but a decent grade might also sometimes help you land a job interview.

     

    Many law school students struggle to secure a job. What do you think they are doing wrong, from your observations?

    A majority of students look at big law firm jobs as a matter of social eminence. This is a wrong approach and a totally inappropriate attitude for a person who is just starting his/her career. If it is difficult for you to determine your area of interest right at the start, have patience and slowly move towards something which allures you. If you know what attracts you then go ahead and grab the job that you think is fit for you. There are a number of mid-tier law firms which are excellent in their respective areas. Try to look beyond big names. Apart from this, the way you present your CV especially the cover letter makes a lot of difference. If all this is fine, then it totally depends on how your interview goes.

     

    Lastly, what would be your message to our readers?

    After having spent 4 months in the professional sphere soon after college, I realise there should be an alteration in the way students usually study at law schools. Trimester system or no trimester system, what is needed is a strong foundation to be built. So, even if you are being taught only case law ‘x’ in the classroom, make sure you have knowledge of what the status of the case was right when it came before the court. I know it is easier said than done. But, you will realise the importance of a strong foundation when you start working. I am stressing on the need of a strong foundation because any place you join after college expects you to know the basics. They make sure you turn into excellent lawyers, but they will only recruit people who have got their basics right.

  • Vishaka Deshwal on maintaining CGPA, research papers and recruitment at WIPRO

    Vishaka Deshwal on maintaining CGPA, research papers and recruitment at WIPRO

    vishakha-deshwal-1Vishaka Deshwal is one of the most diligent and illustrious scholars of the 2015 batch of NLIU, Bhopal. She has participated in various co-curricular activities and has multiple publications to her name. With such a dynamic profile and her dedication to work, she has recently received a job offer from WIPRO. We asked her to share her experiences and strategies she used over the years.

    In this interview, she talks about:

    • Maintaining a decent CGPA
    • Importance of co-curricular activities
    • Writing research papers
    • Recruitment process at WIPRO

     

    How would you introduce yourself to our readers who are mostly law students and young lawyers?

    I am currently undergoing my final year at the National Law Institute University Bhopal. I would like to take this interview as an opportunity to share my views and insights on life in a law school and career decisions that a law student has to take.

     

    How did you decide to study law? Did you have lawyers in your family? Why law and not engineering or medical studies?

    There are no lawyers in my immediate family. I used the elimination method while deciding the subject of graduation because I knew what I did not like.

    I got to know about the Common Law Admission Test (“CLAT”) while reading something online and I liked the concept of an integrated law course. The more I read about the National Law Schools, the more I got interested in getting into one.

     

    As a law student which activities did you participate in? Did you have any guidance on how to go about your academics, co-curricular activities and internships?

    I did not devote my time to only one co-curricular activity. I tried my hand at Parliamentary Debates, Moot Courts, Mediation Competitions, Paper Presentations, etc. I did not want to miss on anything so I made it a point to at least try out most of the activities.

    From the first year onwards, I participated in Mediation Competitions, Client Counselling, Debating, as these do not require any prior substantial knowledge of law. I participated in moot courts and also tried my hand at writing research papers. I have also been associated with the Alternative Dispute Resolution Cell in the college since my first year.

    All in all, I tried a bit of everything and every activity turned out to be an add-on to my skills. Our seniors were always welcoming and helpful in guiding us on how to go about participating in various co-curricular activities.

     

    One can find it difficult to manage continuous evaluation through trimester exams, projects submissions, etc. in a law school. How did you manage to keep up your grades

    I think continuous evaluation through trimester system is not as difficult as it may seem from the outside. After a point, you just get used to making projects and writing examinations every three months. It is just that one needs to be regular so that the projects or submissions do not get piled up and become unmanageable. Although, I am not the topper of the class but I managed to keep my grades consistently above average. I was not always attentive in the classes but still managed to sail through. Scoring good grades is not a very difficult thing I realised.

    There is enough incentive to keep up your grades in a law school. Good grades are like cherry on the top. Sometimes, grades may even help you get through good internships.

     

    You have published a lot of papers in various prestigious journals. Can you give us a few tips to ace the art of paper writing?

    Research Papers are an integral part of any discipline. As law keeps evolving with time, there are always some loopholes or grey areas which need to be corrected. Mostly research papers  aim at bringing out the fallacy in the law and suggesting the remedial measures. Therefore, I think that writing papers has a much broader relevance for a law student than just enhancing the CV.

    There are two necessary things we should remember before writing a paper. First is choosing the right topic. The topic should be specific and should highlight an important point of law that needs consideration or analysis. Second is that there should always be a new proposition or suggestion at the end of the paper.

    Rest, I think all law students know about the basics of researching. The more you read up, the better understanding you would have about the topic.

     

    Your internships at law school have mainly been with top tier firms. Our readers would be quite curious to know how you went about securing these internships.

    I was prompt in applying for the internships especially internships at law firms. Also, I made it a point to follow up with the HR to know about the status of my application. I also got through some of the internships through the Placement Co-ordination Committee of our College. I think the key is relentless punctuality.

    I think there is nothing wrong with interning at law firms from the very beginning provided that you have made up your mind about joining one after college. I think it depends from person to person, if you are not sure which career option is best suited for you then it is better to try out all possible options and then make up your mind.

     

    Did you plan out your internships throughout law school or did it all just happen by chance?

    I did not plan my internships as such. I took up whatever came my way. The only thing that I made sure was that I get to work with different kinds of organisations be it- NGOs, Government Departments, Law firms or Office of Senior Advocates.

    I think one should try and narrow down the options by start working with different kinds of organisation form the first year only.

     

    How relevant did you find your law school education with the kind of work you were required to do at law firms?

    I think what we are taught at the law school is very much relevant. The research and interpretation skills that we acquire at the law school help us through the internships.

     

    How has your mooting experience been?

    I am not a hard-core mooter. I did one International Law based moot court in my fourth year and one National Moot Court in my second year. The kind of in depth study and research that we undertake while preparing for Moot Courts is incredible and makes the whole effort worthwhile.

    Although, I really liked mooting and it taught me a great deal, I found it very time-consuming. That is why I participated in a limited number of Moot Court Competitions.

     

    You have been a member of multiple committees while in law school. Do you think these enhanced your skill-sets? Please share a few of your memorable experience.

    I have been a member of the Alternative Dispute Resolution Cell (ADRC) form the first year itself. Mediation is one of my favourite areas of law and I enjoyed participating as well as assisting in organising Mediation Competitions as a member of the cell.

     

    Recently, you secured a job offer at WIPRO. How did you go about achieving this? Please tell us about the recruitment process at WIPRO?

    WIPRO had come down to our campus for the first time, for recruitment purpose. The process was divided into three stages: first of all, an extempore was conducted. Some of the candidates were eliminated at this stage. Next, there were two rounds of interviews with different panel of interviewers. While the focus of the first interview was personality assessment, the second was majorly limited to legal questions. After the two set of interviews, there was further short-listing. The selected candidates were given a written assignment which was to be submitted the next day i.e. the day of the final interview. The final interview only comprised of questions relating to personality assessment.

     

    How did you prepare for the job interview? What kinds of questions were asked to you?

    While preparing for an interview, it is of utmost importance to be thorough with your CV. Mostly, the interviewers ask you about areas of law that you have worked on in your internships and seldom about your publications or other co-curricular achievements. Therefore, reading up the topics that I had mentioned under my internship experiences was the first thing I did.

    While making my CV, I made it a point to states the title of the work that was assigned to me on the internship (specifically mentioning the provision or name of any case law involved) leaving no scope for any vagueness or open-endedness. This way I was able to limit the number of probable questions.

    The bottom-line is that most of the questions can be anticipated and prepared for well before. By doing so, you feel confident while articulating your answers during the interview.

     

    Many law students strongly believe that getting a job at one of the top 3 law firms is mostly about securing a high GPA. Would you agree?

    Good grades or co-curricular activities alone are not enough. It is a combination of the two that projects you as a dynamic lawyer. Maintaining grades is important as that is the core of law school curriculum but we should not limit ourselves to writing exams and securing good marks.

    Many people believe that working as an in-house counsel affords more work-life balance and is less demanding. What is your opinion?

    Compared to working at law firms, job of an in-house counsel is less demanding thereby it affords more work-life balance. However, one should always strive to achieve work-life balance irrespective of the nature of the job.

     

    If you could re-live your 5 years in Law school, is there something you would do differently?

    I do not wish to change anything about my time spent in the Law School. I think even the mistakes that I made eventually helped me improve in some way or the other.

     

    Lastly, what would be your message for our readers?

    I think we should never stop exploring because there is always a plethora of opportunities out there; we just need to have an open mind.

  • Stuti Shrivastava on securing top-notch internships and a job offer from WIPRO

    Stuti Shrivastava on securing top-notch internships and a job offer from WIPRO

    stuti-shrivastava-1Stuti Shrivastava is currently a student of NLIU, Bhopal and shall graduate in 2015. She has an enviable academic record and has an excellent series of internships at top law firms. She has participated in various moot court and debate competitions. Her diligence paid off when she received a job offer from WIPRO.

    In this interview, she talks about:

    • Importance of mooting
    • Securing top-notch internships
    • Recruitment process at WIPRO

     

    How would you like to introduce yourself to our readers?

    I am currently pursuing my final year in Law from National Law Institute University, Bhopal. I would be joining Wipro next year. I would take this opportunity to reach out to the readers of SuperLawyer and share my experience as a law student and the opportunities thereafter.

     

    Why and when did you decide to do law? What interested you most about the subject at the time?

    I decided to pursue Law while I was in high school. It was just a couple of years back that the format of CLAT had been introduced for five year law courses. While deciding my career options, a five year law course seemed a good choice, firstly, because the demand for lawyers was on the rise and still is, and secondly, because there are a lot of avenues open for a lawyer as far as both private & public sectors and independent practise are concerned.

     

    How would you describe your time at NLIU-Bhopal?

    At NLIU, Bhopal we follow a trimester system which gets a little hectic sometimes. It might get slightly difficult to go through all the projects, mid-terms and end terms every trimester. But if you have a nice group of people to hang out with, college life at NLIU is really fun. I always had good friends here and that is what made my time here so great. I also learned a lot through academic and co-curricular activities like mooting.

     

    One can find it difficult to manage continuous evaluation through trimester exams, projects submissions, etc. How did you manage to keep up your grades?

    Honestly, I am not really at the top of the class as far as grades are concerned. However, I have always managed decent grades by studying a few days before exams. I don’t think there is a universal mantra for scoring well. It’s very subjective. Some students study all through the trimester while others study a night before the exams. However, students should be mindful that they do not enter ‘the vicious cycle of repeats’.

     

    Your internships at law school have all been with top tier firms. Our readers would be quite curious to know how you went about securing these internships.

    I acquired internships either through independent applications or through the college recruitment committee. While applying independently, I always made an effort to apply well ahead of time at various firms and to stay in touch with the HR department.

     

    How relevant did you find your law school education with the kind of work you were required to do at law firms?

    The laws that we study at law school form the basis of all the work that we do at law firms. Having said that, the practical scenarios that we face at internships are far different from the theoretical situations taught to us at law school. At internships, we are required to look into the practical application and interpretation of laws.

     

    Did you learn any skills while interning? What are these skills and how did you acquire them?

    I think the most important skills that I learned at internships were the analysis and practical application of laws. I acquired these skills by researching on practical legal situations and by analysing the interpretation and application of laws in such situations. Every assignment that I was given involved a new query which required me to thoroughly understand the law its application.

     

    You have participated in various moot court competitions including Willem C. Vis (East) international commercial arbitration moot, tell us how important is mooting and what effect does it have on one’s CV?

    Legal Education is not just about theoretical knowledge but also about practical application of law. Mooting helps a student get a taste of practical scenarios and assists in development of analytical skills. When mentioned in a CV, it shows that the student is not merely engaged in classroom activities but also makes an effort to branch out and participate in other co-curricular activities. Additionally, International moots like Willem C. Vis give the students an opportunity to interact with law students and jurists from top universities all over the world.

     

    How helpful do you think is mooting for a law student? Does it serve a real purpose or is just another way to crowd up the CV?

    Apart from developing analytical skills, mooting also helps in the development of oratory skills and in instilling confidence in the student. It is also a good way of acquiring research skills and increasing one’s pool of knowledge. In addition, the competition is a very good platform for meeting other law students from various universities and it facilitates exchange of ideas.

     

    Apart from mooting and academics what other co-curricular activities did you engage yourself in?

    I have participated in seminars and presented a legal paper.

     

    What do you have to say about mooting at law school and legal writing for journals? Are these activities that help with development of real world skills and do they have any ‘bonus’ value when seeking jobs?

    These activities certainly help a student in expanding his/her horizon of knowledge and legal skills. Also, while seeking jobs, these activities go on to show the interviewer that the student is a keen learner and is versatile.

     

    Recently, you bagged a job offer as in-housel counsel at WIPRO. How did you go about achieving this?

    I read up on all the assignments that I had mentioned on my CV and made sure that I knew them in and out. I also read up the basic laws and prepared the most anticipated HR questions.

     

    Please tell us about the recruitment process at WIPRO?

    The recruitment process was spread over a period of 2 days. On the first day we had an extempore and two rounds of interviews where we faced different interviewers. We were asked both, general legal questions and CV related questions. At the end of the day we were also given some legal and other assignments. On the second day we had a single round of interview where we were asked personality assessment based questions.

     

    Tell us about your interview? What kinds of questions were asked by the interview board? Any tips on how one should go about framing a C.V. and prepare for an interview?

    On the first day, I was asked basic legal questions and CV related questions along with HR questions. There were some questions based on general knowledge. The interview on the second day was solely based on personality assessment questions.

    One should always make sure that the assignments mentioned in the CV are precise and that there are no frivolous points in the CV. Preparing all the anticipated questions before the interview is always helpful.

     

    There is a phenomenal obsession amongst law students with maintaining a very high CGPA. How important according to you is this in securing a job?

    Grades are important but they are not the only thing that helps in a job interview. Thorough and clear understanding of the areas that one has worked in and is very important. Apart from knowledge, interviewers also look for other qualities in students like confidence, versatility, ability to work in a team and capacity to handle pressure. Students should also work towards developing these skills.

     

    Many people believe that working as an in-house counsel affords more work-life balance and is less demanding. Would you agree?

    Having interned at various law firms, I have firsthand experience of how demanding life is at such firms. In most of the places you are often required to work late and there is always high pressure to finish assignments on deadlines. In comparison to that, the job of an in-house counsel is not as demanding and therefore, it may provide a better work-life balance.

     

    Lastly, what would be your message to our readers?

    I would like to ask all the law students to not restrict their outlook as far as career after law is concerned. They should intern at different places and participate in various co-curricular activities before they decide to settle down on anything. Also, along with academics they should try and have fun with their friends and make good memories in college.

  • Mrudul Dadhich on pursing masters, applying to different universities and recruitment at a top law firm

    Mrudul Dadhich on pursing masters, applying to different universities and recruitment at a top law firm

    mrudul-dadhich-2Mrudul Dadhich is a graduate of the batch of 2014 of  RGNUL, Patiala. He is currently pursuing Masters in European and European Legal Studies from the Europa-Kolleg, University of Hamburg and was awarded the prestigious Dr. Angela Merkel Scholarship Award.

    We spoke to him, among other things, about:

    • Tips on pursuing masters
    • Process of application to foreign universities for masters
    • His recruitment at J. Sagar Associates
    • Scope of career opportunities after graduating from a Tier II/III law school

     

    How would you introduce yourself to our readers which are mostly young students of law and lawyers?

    Hello everyone, I am Mrudul Dadhich, pursuing Masters in European and European Legal Studies from the Europa-Kolleg, University of Hamburg. I was fortunate to have been awarded the prestigious Dr. Angela Merkel Scholarship Award for pursuing my Masters. I have completed my B.A. LL.B. (Hons.) from Rajiv Gandhi National University of Law, Patiala.

     

    Please tell us a little about yourself, your hobbies, passions, interests and ultimate goal in life.

    I am young lawyer with a lot of aspirations to find my feet in the legal fraternity. My hobbies include watching sports (especially cricket, football and tennis). I am passionate about cricket in particular and have a special affinity for numbers (which partly explains my love for statistics in sports). As for the ultimate goal, I tend to take things one at a time and prefer to set short term goals, achieve them and then set another set of goals. So it will be difficult to tell you an ‘ultimate’ goal in life at this point.

     

    How did you decide to study law? Did you have lawyers in your family? Why law and not engineering or medical studies?

    I am a first generation lawyer in my family. During my school days, I was totally inclined towards Engineering and had never thought of taking up law. I didn’t know what I was getting into when I came here and in my first 4 or 5 months I was filled with awe. And over the years I have realized that it was the best decision I ever took. All professions have lot to offer, however, personally for me law has offered more dynamism and it has opened up a lot of opportunities and avenues.

     

    You have not only interned at some of the best law firms in India but also secured a job at JSA, Advocates and Solicitors. How did you go about achieving this?

    When I was in the 3rd year of my Law School, I realized my inclination towards corporate and business laws and luckily, I got the opportunity in my 3rd year itself to intern with a top-tier firm. Then with the feedback from seniors I soon realized that J. Sagar Associates is a dream place to work at. When I first got the internship I was ecstatic and frankly, was in awe with the work culture and environment at JSA. That internship was a great experience and after that I kept on repeating internships with the firm. And things took their own course afterwards.

     

    Please tell us the recruitment process at JSA?

    The recruitment process at JSA is quite transparent and well structured. In my case, we had a campus recruitment activity wherein 6 candidates were shortlisted for the final interview. Based on the interview, the final selection was made.

     

    We note that you have applied for top notch universities for masters. While making applications, what was your strategy – choose a university first and then a course or vice-versa?

    I just applied for 2 programmes. I applied for the BCL course at the University of Oxford and the other one was for the DAAD Scholarship (the Angela Merkel Scholarship). My approach was to first select the course and then the University.

     

    There is also a great amount of debate when it comes to allocating your time and energy between research papers and moots as a law student. What is your opinion regarding this?

    There is no straight jacket formula for defining which requires greater allocation of time and energy. It works differently for every individual. In my case, I participated in Moots only till my 3rd year. However, I believe that a well balanced CV is more important than excellence in any one field alone. It is very difficult to choose one over the other and one must have fair share of both. Personally, I feel once you have done both then you may decide to pursue the one which interests you more. I had always favoured writing research papers over mooting.

     

    Being a topper, one may safely assume that you chose to devote a substantial amount of your time to academics. However, a lot of people claim that the role of academics (and more specifically, the “CGPA”) is limited and often over-stated and hyped. What’s your take?

    I think academics do play a significant role. However, having said that, it also depends on what your future goal is. I think that, for securing a place in a prestigious institution for higher education, role of a sound academic record is highlighted. I reiterate that it is important to strike a balance between academics and the extra-curricular activities. I also believe that internships are also very important and are a great platform to gain valuable, practical experience. Finally, to answer your question, I would say that academics are not the only thing but it never hurts to have sound academic record. It always helps!!

     

    There’s a lot of hue and cry about how the lower-ranked colleges are discriminated against when it comes to opportunities being offered despite at times being equally meritorious as the students from the higher-ranked ones. Do you find any substance in this argument?

    I would not say there is any discrimination in the legal fraternity based on the colleges. Generally the recently established colleges (I prefer to use this phrase rather than ‘lower ranked colleges’ as in absence of a centralised transparent ranking system, it is unfair to call any college higher ranked or vice-versa) have a smaller alumni network which plays a very important role in getting more opportunities. But I don’t think there is any discrimination.

     

    Did being a student of a Tier II Law School act as a roadblock during your law school days?

    Again I have not come across the categorization of law schools in different Tiers. In my case, I think studying in RGNUL was a boon and since it (RGNUL) was in the nascent stages when I started law school, I got a lot more opportunities to explore and to learn.

     

    If you could list out 3 activities which on a scale of priority, should be at the top in any law student’s school-life (given that he wants to secure the same set of achievements as you), what would those be?

    I reiterate that maintaining a balance is the most important thing, being perseverant and keeping yourself motivated is the Mantra that worked for me. As for the priority list, I would place Academics (good grades really help you for being accepted for Masters), Internships (this not only gives a practical insight about the different challenges one may face after law school) and Research Papers.

     

    If you could re-do your 5 years in Law school, is there something you would do differently?

    No, I am happy with the way things have turned out. The greatest fun is in unpredictability and to respond to the situations as and how they come, it will be too boring if everything goes just as we plan them!!!

     

    Lastly, what would be your message for the readers who want to pursue masters?

    First of all decide if you really want to pursue Masters. Once you are clear about that, select the discipline in which you want to pursue it (based on your area of interest and the opportunities which it may present in future). Look for appropriate scholarships. There are many scholarships so research on that and most importantly, start with your applications well in advance. I wish all the readers the very best in their future endeavours.

  • Vishnu Warrier on founding Lex-Warrier, cracking CLAT PG and work at Miniratna HLL Lifecare

    Vishnu Warrier on founding Lex-Warrier, cracking CLAT PG and work at Miniratna HLL Lifecare

    vishnu-warrier-1Vishnu S. Warrier graduated from University of Mysore in 2009. Thereafter he pursued LLM in Business law at National Law Institute University, Bhopal. While in NLIU, he founded an online law journal “The Lex-Warrier: Online Law Journal”. He has recently completed a Book on Arbitration which is about to release. Presently, he is working as an in-house counsel at HLL Life-care Limited (a Miniratna Co.) under the Ministry of Health and Family Welfare, Govt. of India.

    In this interview, he talks about:

    • Preparation for CLAT Post-Graduate
    • Establishing an online law journal
    • Interview and work at HLL

     

    Given that most of our readers are law students and lawyers, how would you introduce yourself to them?

    Well… I’m Vishnu, a post graduate in law from NLIU, Bhopal and did my graduation in law (Five Year Course) from University of Mysore. Currently I am associated with the In-house legal team of a Public Sector Undertaking under the Ministry of Health & Family Welfare, Govt. of India. Prior to that, I was working with the In-house legal team of Coromandel International Limited (A Murugappa Group Company). Besides, I have also founded an Online Law Journal titled “The Lex-Warrier: Online Law Journal” (ISSN: 2319-8338) accessible at www.lex-warrier.in and recently completed a Book on Arbitration which is about to release.

     

    Why and when did you decide to study law? You have done your graduation from Mysore University. How would you describe your time there? Tell us about the academic environment and faculty at the law department of the University.

    It was just few months before the completion of 12th Standard; I have decided to take up law as my profession. May be because, the subjects like Physics and Chemistry are not that digestible to me and neither had interest to go for either engineering or medicine. Further, the scope of the profession as well as its dignity in the society attracted me.

    I could say that, life at Mysore was one of the best times in my career as well as personal life. Five years of life @ Law College has very much changed my concept about the legal profession as well as my approach to legal studies. We have got an excellent library in our campus, and academic environment is very much inspiring as well as we were very much influenced by our Professors like Dr. CKN Raja etc. in moulding our approach towards the profession as well as academics.

     

    Do you believe that excellent CGPA is absolutely necessary for success?

    Well, to be frank I don’t believe in CGPA has any role in your success. As far as I am concerned it’s only a number which will decide whether you should be called for an interview or not (In case you are applying for any Job). All you need is thorough knowledge of the subject in which you are planning practice. Eg: Environmental Law. Further, you should have an idea of all other related subjects. However, in today’s competitive job market a candidate with higher CGPA will have a better chance to be called for any interview.

     

    What were your areas of interest during your graduation? How did you go about developing expertise and knowledge in these areas?

    May be because, I’ve taken Science in my 11th & 12th I had a special interest on IPR papers especially Patents and Trademarks. By reading lots of articles and journals on those areas (in any subjects) will help us to understand the concepts thoroughly and by going through various judgments will help us to understand the application of relevant provisions. In that, process it is possible that the reader may not agree with the author or he may have a conflicting opinion on the subject. When such situation arises, it is always recommended to discuss such topics with your fellow classmates, seniors and your Professors to develop a better understanding on the specific point of law. Discussions and debates will help us to understand law better.

     

    Did you do any internship during your graduation? Did you receive any assistance from your college?

    Yes. I have done few internships under practicing lawyers. In our college, papers like CPC, Cr.P.C, Evidence, Drafting, Pleading and Conveyance etc. are taught by Practicing Advocates. They were very much helpful for us to obtain internships under any lawyers or in any law firms.

     

    What do you have to say about the supposed ‘elite’ tag attached to certain law schools? Do you believe branding of college is something that’s very relevant/ important at any stage in a law student’s career?

    “Elite” tag has got a major role or importance in your career. It will give you a moral advantage in the job market. Nowadays it is noted that, candidates who are from top law schools are given more preference in any job interview. Therefore, branding is very much essential. After all in the job market candidate is marketing himself that, he is the most suitable person for the job which is notified.

     

    When and how did you decide to pursue Masters? Was it a professional requirement or an endeavour out of academic interests?

    As I mentioned earlier, I have developed some special interest towards IPR subjects during my 4th year of LL.B and further reading on the subject influenced me to go for higher studies. The decision to pursue Masters was purely out of my academic interest.

     

    How did you prepare for CLAT PG? Did you join any coaching? What books did you rely on?

    I was one among the 2nd batch of CLAT. During those days CLAT was hardly getting popularity and therefore there was not any coaching for CLAT as well as any books for the same. So was not attended any coaching for CLAT, however, there were lot of good study materials available in the market for other competitive exams like Judicial Service as well as Civil Services. I was more relying on those materials and of course respective reference books on each individual subjects were also referred during the preparation for CLAT.

     

    You have done your LL.M. from NLIU, Bhopal. Can you please share your experience at NLIU? How will you compare the pedagogy at NLIU with that of Mysore University?

    Life at NLIU was altogether a different experience comparing to the life at Mysore. However, I can’t compare both of them, because of the approach towards the profession was too different on both the occasion. At NLIU, I can say we were more serious professional towards our career. Of course there was a good healthy competition within our batch mates. The best part of NLIU is that, we have got a very good library and possibly one of the best in India and of course the Sports Complex 😉

     

    lex-warrier

    You are the founder and editor-in-chief of Lex-Warrier Law Journal. How did you come up with the idea of creating something like this?

    Idea was originated with a moto of sharing the knowledge. It was also some kind of experience for writing short articles. The efforts were appreciated by batch mates as well as our professors. In the mean time others also expressed their willingness to contribute, and slowly it started gaining popularity.

     

    You have been running the Lex-Warrier Law Journal for past four years. How is your experience so far?

    Content development was the toughest part which I faced during initial one year. However, I’m very much thankful to my friends Aakarsh Kamra and Garima Tiwari for their unconditional support which was very much instrumental for bringing the Journal to today’s stage. It is now very satisfying that, our struggles are giving us positive response like Researchers from Cambridge, University of Leiden and many Academicians preferred to publish their research papers with Lex-Warrier. However, the paper acceptability is hardly 10-15% of the total papers we receive. Major challenge we are facing in this regard is the plagiarism.

     

    You are currently working at HLL Lifecare Limited (A Miniratna Co.) under the Ministry of Health & Family Welfare, Govt. of India. How did you go about bagging this job? Please tell us about the recruitment process at HLL?

    I saw the advertisement on the Company’s website. And of course the organisation does publish advertisement on national dailies. This organisation looks for candidates who are good in academics as well as those who have good practical exposure. My selection was through Personal Interview.

     

    How was the job interview? Do you remember any of the questions asked to you?

    Interview was little bit tough. Because, I remember that, the knowledge on subject was tested very much in the interview. Questions were more of practical knowledge.

     

    What are your day-to-day responsibilities? How is the experience so far?

    Major responsibilities are IPR management of the Organisation, handling litigation, monitoring the statutory compliance level of the organisation etc. and provide legal opinions on case to case basis.

     

    Does HLL take interns? What is the process for same?

    Interns are only taken in the Secretarial Department who is pursuing CS. Vacancies will be notified from time to time and eligible candidates are taken through Personal Interview

     

    Lastly, what would be your message to our readers who are mainly young lawyers and law students?

    Well, I suggest first year of law school to concentrate more on the academics and be a good observer of various law school events such as Moot Courts, Debates, Seminars, Paper Presentation etc. next 3 years may concentrate on building your resume by participating in above mentioned events as well as doing internships, etc. However, it is always appreciated that, you do internships only on your vacations. And in final year of course you will be busy with your practical papers as well as your placement procedure so I suggest you to concentrate on your academics.

  • Debolina Saha on work at AMSS, quitting it to join Ashurst LLP and work at Allen & Overy

    Debolina Saha on work at AMSS, quitting it to join Ashurst LLP and work at Allen & Overy

    debolina-saha-1Debolina Saha graduated from NUJS, Kolkata. She worked at AMSS before getting appointed to Ashurst LLP, London. Currently, she is an associate of Allen & Overy based out of Hong Kong.

    In this interview she talks about:

    • Work experience at the largest Indian law firm
    • Appointment at Ashurst LLP without the necessity of masters in law
    • Working on tight schedules and time management
    • Work experience at a Magic Circle firm, Allen & Overy

     

    What impressed upon you the idea to study law? Being fairly a new concept and a new university how did you decide to pursue law from NUJS?

    I chose law for very different reasons. I always aspired to join the civil services and so thought at my undergraduate level it would be best to take up subjects that would be closely linked to subjects that I would be dealing with on a daily basis as a civil servant—and of course then the natural choice was the study of law.

    The fact that Dr. N.R. Madhava Menon would be the vice-chancellor of the new law school in Kolkata, was enough to strike both a chord of trust and optimism that NUJS too would soon be in similar leagues with the National Law School of India University at Bangalore and joining NUJS would definitely turn out to be one of the best decisions of life.

    Also NUJS came with the added advantage of being just 10 minutes walking distance away from my home -so I guess it was hard to say “no” to NUJS and it was the best way of savouring a few more years within the comforts of home, before a job required me to move out of Kolkata.

     

    How did you fare in your academics at NUJS? Would you say a great CGPA is a necessity to kickstart a good career in the legal profession?

    I missed out being on the top 10 student rank list of my class but was jointly ranked 11, in a class of 66 students. Doing well in academics was personally imperative to me. I come from a very simple family and being a first time lawyer in my family with no big names to back me up or provide me with references-I felt the only way for me to put my best foot forward was by means of doing well in academics.

    CGPA, does not reflect your level of intelligence or capability but what it does reflect to a person who first examines your curriculum vitae is that you believe in excelling, putting your best, are a focussed individual and have a higher degree of perseverance than the rest—-all of which qualities are highly valued at the job front.

    Sadly it is the truth, but CGPAs (which show your grade for a five year period and not just one semester) often gives the interviewer (who is a total stranger) a first impression about a candidate. But CGPA alone does not determine everything. Your personality, extra-curricular achievements and other volunteering activities—in short a “consistent” track record of achievements all put together, add to giving you that much needed ‘kickstart’ at a good legal career.

    Once into the profession, your CGPA really does not make any difference. I know of some fantastic lawyers who are doing very well in their profession but cannot boast of high CGPAs at law school.

     

    Right after graduation you got appointed at AMSS. What had contributed towards this appointment? What did you take away from a year long work experience at the largest Indian law firm?

    Amarchand gave me the strongest platform to start my career with and a brand name to pride myself—–an opportunity for which I would always be grateful. A consistent track-record of achievements at law school, a good group discussion round and an interview, I guess all contributed to securing a place with India’s largest law firm.

    Amarchand taught me that here was no replacement for hard work and to be honest it laid the foundation for my years to come and develop as a lawyer. Even as a fresher since I was deeply involved in transactions, at a very early stage of my career I got a bird’s eye overview of what my future as a lawyer would be. So while making my next move to Ashurst LLP in London, I was well prepared for the ‘life of a lawyer’—a life involving a whole lot of travelling, application of law, multitasking, dealing with stress, client management, working long hours and of course when not at work learning to make the most of leisure.

     

    Soon after completing a year at AMSS you started work at Ashurst LLP, London. How did this transition happen? Did you get an offer or did you apply for Ashurst?

    I have always been a strong believer of the fact that during one’s initial stages in the legal career, once should try and meddle with as many areas of law as possible before finally deciding the area that one would like to focus on.

    Unfortunately, during my time, we did not have a “rotation system” to various departments that many Indian law firms now offer their fresh associates. Having already been placed in India’s leading law firm, the natural way forward for me was to branch out beyond India. That was when I applied to Ashurst LLP, in London for a position in their international finance team. I was fortunate to have an associate role offered to me as opposed to a training contract. Generally with merely a single jurisdiction qualification (in my case India), only a year’s work experience in an Indian law firm and no master degree in law, one should be fortunate to just secure a training contract with a city-law firm in the United Kingdom.

     

    How different or similar was your work profile at Ashurst? What did you take away from your experience at Ashurst? How did your stint at Ashurst help you in making an ideal work profile?

    My role at Ashurst was more tilted towards the banking side, while at Amarchand I was a capital markets lawyer and the then Disclosure and Investor Protection Guidelines earned me my bread and butter.

    At Ashurst I was grappling on a daily basis with a host of new laws, never-heard-before terms that the Loan Market Association was throwing at me with every new read of the know-how documents and generally getting up to speed with a silver circle firm’s manner of drafting, various United Kingdom’s legislation, and associates who were already more experienced in this particular area of law. At least while, at Amarchand, certain laws and terms looked familiar and were taught at law school.

    Looking back now- my first four months at Ashurst taught me how it was more important to know where to find the law than what the law is, it taught me to be calm even when being out of one’s comfort zone, be willing to learn new things and most importantly being eager to experience the unknown. Though it can be daunting at first, once you cross the initial jitters, you would want to give yourself a pat on your back.

    Working for any international law firm especially a magic or a silver circle law firm goes a long way in opening up many channels of great opportunities for you. It is not just the work that you do in such law firms that help you secure better opportunities-the soft skills that you inculcate while working in such an environment can do wonders for your career.

    Amongst others your prospective interviewer very well gauges that having worked in an international law firm previously, you are a candidate who quickly adjusts to new unfamiliar surroundings, naturally adapts to people from varied cultures, you are sensitive to the needs of international clients and know how to conduct yourself in a demeanour that befits an international law firm. Needless to say, all this helps in making an ideal work profile for oneself.

     

    Generally it’s a notion that magic circle and silver circle firms take associates only from among post-graduates having expertise in corporate law. How far would you say this is true? What would you say substituted such a necessity in your favour for your recruitment at Ashurst?

    As a general concept, this may be true but I now see quite trend amongst a few English law firms picking up students from their campus recruitments in India. Also, some even offer extended internship opportunities over summer breaks to pick up some promising students as prospective trainees.

    All said and done, I would still say that for those of you, who think you are good to be in any of the international law firms and have well-balanced curriculum vitae with a consistent track record of achievements, be confident enough to apply. Remember being qualified in the foreign jurisdiction that you would be applying to is a great bonus, so you may consider adding this feather to your hat before seriously considering an application attempt. Also be perseverant and do not get disheartened with any rejection. Always remember that competition to these positions is fierce, and seats are very few, so if not this time, you will surely make it around at some point.

    I was cautiously advised by many to gain a few more years of experience in India and then after completing a master degree from a university abroad, make my way to an international law firm. That route seemed too long a wait at that point of time and besides a master in law would cost me a fortune-a sum that was beyond my reach at that point. So I thought, of giving an honest attempt at my Ashurst interview.

    In my feedback I was told that my eagerness, coherent and clear manner of speaking, general replies to interview questions with calm and composure and my sheer willingness to try new things and move into a part of the world where I did not know many people-convinced them, that I would be a quick learner at the job and a well-fit in my team.

    Over the years, I have learnt that what most international law firm interviews are geared to know if you will be a “well-fit” into the team and be happy as a person in new surroundings. Of course, knowing the law is important, but what is more important is that you are able to “find” that law and perhaps even more important is that you have a pleasant personality.

     

    After Ashurst, you worked at a couple of Indian law firms before deciding to join Allen&Overy, Hong Kong. Would you say the work experience garnered at Ashurst helped in your recruitment at A&O?

    Yes, most definitely but what I think worked in my favour was my qualification as a Solicitor, England and Wales. Having a widely accepted qualification goes a long way in securing a position with any international law firm.

    Besides law firms abroad look for individuals, who do more than just practice law. With the little time that we as lawyers have, at the end of the day it really looks good if your profile shows you as a holistic individual. So any publications, attempts to pursue serious hobbies, voluntary work, teaching assignments, any post-law school-added qualifications and every participation towards promoting any event on law would be highly appreciated.

     

    How diverse is your current workplace at Hong Kong now? Where do the associates hail from?

    One of the main reasons, while I personally enjoy working in an international law firm is its sheer diversity-both in terms of work and people. Though we are based in Hong Kong, we have people from all over the world. I will not be exaggerating in the least when I say that the office feels like a hub of global citizens. To name just a few we have associates from Sydney, The Netherlands, Hong Kong, United Kingdom, Thailand, The United States of America, Manila, Beijing, Korea, India and the list just keeps growing, depending on who joins us on “international secondments” from our offices abroad.

     

    How has been your experience working on tight schedules, meeting deadlines and with work-life balance?

    It is all about managing time and client expectations. As you grow in the profession, you become better at both the tasks, which leaves you more time for your personal pursuits. Besides, you learn to live life on the mantra of working hard when required and making the most of your holidays.

    It is important though to learn how to “switch off” and just enjoy yourself when on holidays. I personally don’t think that working on tight schedules or meeting deadlines should bother any lawyer-if one “enjoys” working as a lawyer. Trust me, the days when you have lesser work you realise how much you miss drafting, being across the negotiation table, or in short the constant adrenaline rush.

    Having said that, I think I must emphasise that those of you who are serious about joining law firms please be prepared for long hours at work, demanding clients, work on weekends and graveyard shifts (in the literal sense of the term) and a very competitive environment which may often leave you with very little time for yourself and your family, at least during your initial years as a professional.

     

    You have had the opportunity to judge the 12th Red Cross International Humanitarian Law Moot. What did you specifically look for in the mooters? How was the overall experience, being a general rounds judge at a prestigious moot?

    Well, I have always believed that if you are unable to put down complicated facts in a simple, coherent and clear manner, you really have not understood the moot problem. It is important that you understand the ‘facts’ clearly. So I was looking forward to see how mooters clearly explained me the facts and also applied the law to these facts.

    I was a little surprised when I saw how very well prepared the students were on the law but missed out on certain factual information, which perhaps cost them a few points but served them as a good reminder for their forthcoming rounds, to clearly brush up on facts which may seem insignificant at the first glance. Further a slow pace of talking, calm composure, clarity of voice and thought, and most importantly standing firm on arguments as opposed to readily conceding to the judge’s point of view helped me mark my score sheets for the team.

    Judging the top quality moot, with participants from all over the world was, needless to say, an exhilarating experience. I personally got to learn a lot from the students too and hopefully will get an invite again to hone my judging skills at the 13th Red Cross International Humanitarian Law Moot too.

     

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    In between your schedules you have also managed to take not one but two clinical credit courses at NUJS. Tell us something about the courses and why you chose to do them? How has been your experience in teaching?

    I wanted students to make the most of their corporate internships and training contracts, starting day one itself. This was possible only if students were already familiar with certain integral, key, practical and basic terminologies used in day to day capital market, banking and finance and general corporate transactions. Most often what is taught in law schools is mostly theoretical law and students often fail to link this knowledge to their job.

    I wanted the students to be confident and know what they were doing while at their first job or during their internships. Sometimes it can take up to a couple of months or more for even a first year associate, to figure his or her way around a transaction and know exactly how and where his or her “piece” of work fits into the transaction. The aim of the courses I offered were to mainly provide the students with a chart of the various legs of a transaction, make them familiar with the manner in which due diligence was conducted and with certain terms used in loans transactions in the United Kingdom.

    As regards my teaching experience, I must admit I had my own set of apprehensions. I was forewarned as to how attendance would be low, students irregular and I might have to spend most of my time disciplining the students than teaching my proposed course.

    However, I was very pleasantly surprised with a class of regular attentive and enthusiastic students who left no stone unturned in getting the most out of the class and asking me some very intelligent and well thought out questions.

    What I personally understood from this experience is that if law teaching is coupled with practical anecdotes and the law itself is explained in simple, lucid and clear language with instances where such law may be applied, students are eager to learn and absorb such knowledge.

     

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    You have also traveled to the Philippines to help support the people affected Typhoon Haiyan for fundraising and other activities. How did you contribute? What other volunteering opportunities have you been involved with?

    A few of us from our law firm traveled to the city of Bacolod in Philippines earlier this year, to help build toilets for some families affected by the Typhoon Haiyan. I was most humbled by the three-day experience. Yes, you heard that correctly-we built “toilets”!

    At the end of the trip, I must confess I was more proud of my bricklaying, cement and sand mixing skills than I was of my “lawyering” skills.

    I witnessed “sheer determination” and “will” amongst people who had very little by our standards. The houses that went down because of the typhoon, now stand stronger than ever showing how faith and unity in times of adversity could help one surpass any hurdle.

    I returned back from the “Land of Sweet People” more determined to continue participating in such activities and am already looking forward to my next volunteering opportunity.

    As regards my other volunteering opportunities, while in India, I made candles and taught English, on Saturdays, to visually challenged students, at the “The Blind Relief Association” in New Delhi for around a year. In London, I volunteered for the “Food for Life” program of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness, and helped in the preparation and distribution of food in the cold winter nights and also worked as a law volunteer at the Ipswich and Suffolk Council for Racial Equality. While at NUJS, as part of the legal aid society for three consecutive years, we traveled to some of the most remote villages in West Bengal and conducted legal awareness camps and on weekends assisted in providing free legal advice to people who came to the clinic.

     

    Having seen from the perspective of a student and a teacher, how do you say a student can perform better in examinations?

    I personally feel it is important to structure your answers to questions clearly and coherently. Most often students read lengthy articles, because of which at the time of examination, their thoughts are spread all over.

    After completion of any chapter in class, it is important to sit back and think of what questions you would have asked, had you been the teacher and looked at past question papers. Identify around 5-6 essay type question for each chapter and then write out the answers in a clear manner, clearly timing yourself.

    If this is done regularly then just before the date of your exams, instead of cramming long articles and chapters of books-you are concentrating only on your well-written answers. Your answers should always have a clear introduction, body (dealing with the issues posed by the question) and a conclusion.

    I am not at all saying do not read the books in the library. All I am saying is that it is of little use if you ponder over thick books just a day before the exam. In the library, you should spend time, learning to take note of matters which you would like to highlight in your answers.

    Your task would be always to ensure that teacher’s job in correcting the paper is made as easy as possible, and a good neat handwriting goes a long way in ensuring this.

     

    What would be your tips and advice for someone who aspires to join a magic circle law firm?

    If you plan early on in your law school days that you want to make your way to a magic circle law firm, it helps if you start building your curriculum vitae in that direction. There is no one straight jacket formula to make it to an international law firm. However, if you take note of all the matters that I have highlighted in my answers to the various questions in this interview, you simply increase your chances of selection.

    Also, it is important that you prepare for the interview well. Prepare a list of probable questions and think through the answers. Make sure your answers are honest; you dress smartly for the interview and have a firm handshake.
    Be confident and most importantly have faith in your abilities.

  • Smrithi Ramesh on LL.M in ADR from Berkeley and arbitration work at KLRCA

    Smrithi Ramesh on LL.M in ADR from Berkeley and arbitration work at KLRCA

    Smrithi Ramesh graduated from The Tamil Nadu Dr. Ambedkar Law University, Chennai and thereafter went on to pursue an LL.M in Alternate Dispute Resolutions from the University of California, Berkeley. Currently with her assorted skills in arbitration, mediation and negotiations she has joined the Kuala Lumpur Regional Centre for Arbitration.

    She shares with us:

    • Her reasons behind pursuing LL.M
    • Faculty, facilities and course structure at Berkeley
    • Building a career in Alternate Dispute Resolutions
    • Overall journey as a law student and post-law-school career

     

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    What impressed upon you the idea to study law? Did you have lawyers among your relatives?

    I consider myself a first generation lawyer. Growing up, no one in my immediate family practiced law. However, I did grow up listening to stories about my great grand-father being a lawyer and that had an amazing impact on me. A healthy dose of books like To Kill A Mocking Bird and John Grisham only cemented that desire. All my varied extra curricular activities in school also revolved around my fondness for interpersonal interaction, rationalization and in advocating my beliefs to people. Hence, choosing to study law was a logical consequence of my upbringing.

    Once I started law school, while my reasons to love the law became different and more coherent, the desire to become a lawyer stayed the same.

     

    How do you recall your law school journey? Did you partake in moots and extra-curricular activities?

    Law school was more of an adventure than a journey. I studied in the School of Excellence in Law and hence access to Courts and work on an everyday basis was a huge advantage. The timing of my college made it conducive for me to intern every day for the 5 years. Luckily for me I joined this leading law firm in Chennai called BFS Legal. The Partners were very encouraging and made sure that I was exposed to all kinds of work. It was lucky for me that I found mentors in my bosses who not only taught me the law but also channelized my interests in the right direction. Being avid mooters themselves, they encouraged me to take part in moots. There began a long relationship between me and mooting. I spent 5 years during various moots.

    Extra curricular activities were a huge part of what moulded my personality.

    A big turning point in all this was when my team won the Henry Durant Memorial Moot Court Competition. We went on to win the Asian Rounds in Bangladesh and then were placed Semi-Finalists in the International Rounds. This was a first for my institution and for us personally too. The exposure we got there meeting students and lawyers all over the world was phenomenal and that also prompted us to do the Willem C Vis Arbitration Moot. It was her that I first developed my interest towards International Arbitration.

    Apart from this, I was also a part of the Moot Court Association of my college. In the final year of college I was made President of the Moot Court Association. I was part of the team that successfully conducted four National Moot Court competitions in one year. We managed to pull off a successful event on a shoestring budget. I believe these experiences were crucial in learning valuable skills that continue to help me everyday at work and outside. In the final year, I also interned with the Ministry of Corporate Affairs.

     

    How did your appointment at Vichar Partners (now JSA) take place? What all constituted your work profile?

    Vichar Partners was one of the few firms in Chennai that was doing great transactional work. Towards the end of law school, I had begun to take a great interest in Arbitration and also Transactional Law. I applied to Vichar and went through the interview process successfully. My work profile primarily consisted of handling Dispute Resolution cases including Arbitration. I was also able to work on a few deals and was also a part of the team that conducted due diligence. VICHAR partners gave me hands on learning on the various aspects of Corporate Law. They also had a lot of cases relating to arbitration and electricity law. It was very interesting for me to work on this as it was new and challenging. Although I was no stranger to courts, it was here that for the first time I got to represent in various forums including the High Courts, Electricity Tribunal etc. None of the books you read or lawyers you watch prepares you for the sheer thrill you get when you appear before a bench in real life.

     

    After your work experience at Vichar you joined Mundkur Law Partners. What prompted you to make this shift?

    The shift was primarily owing to my relocation to Bangalore for personal reasons. However, once I joined Mundkur Law Partners, it was almost like a second tenure at law school. All my working life, I have been blessed with amazing bosses and Mr. Mundkur was no exception. My stint at MLP saw my drafting and research skills undergo a sea change. High standards of perfection was the norm at MLP. My exposure at MLP included Corporate Law, Dispute Resolution, Education and Foreign Investment.

    By now I had more or less understood the importance of an LL.M to bolster my CV and help me carve out a niche.

     

    What was your motivation behind pursuing LL.M.? When did you finally decide that you need to do masters?

    I was first considering doing a Masters immediately after my experience with mooting at an International forum. It made me realize the importance of learning in a multi cultural environment. By the time I was in MLP, I had pretty much decided that to really equip myself, with the skills and knowledge required to further my career, an LL.M was mandatory. It was also essential for me to understand and learn for myself how the different spheres of law worked and functioned.

     

    How did you choose the university/college? How should one go about choosing a university?

    A lot of research went into the schools I had decided to apply to. The one key thing while choosing an LL.M. is to look at it for the point of view of equipping oneself rather than finding a job out of the country. It is good to do some background research on the faculty and programs offered in your area of interest. I was interested in New Venture Law, Investment and Arbitration. To me California and Berkeley were a perfect fit. I was taught by the best lawyers in Silicon Valley and the arbitration faculty at Berkeley was also great.

    I was very keen on a multi-cultural university. The key thing to identify for yourself before applying for an LL.M is to decide what exactly one wants out of the program. Once those goals are established, applying to schools becomes easy.

     

    Does Berkeley provide students with scholarships? Are there other institutions which provide scholarships? How difficult was studying abroad in terms of finding accommodation, finances and settling in?

    Berkeley does provide some scholarships. There are also many institutions that provide scholarship both inside and outside of India. People looking to apply for an LL.M should get their research in order as regards scholarship applications. Most times, there is a separate procedure for applying for these scholarships including writing essays. The deadlines for scholarships also vary. So it is good to have a schedule before one even starts to apply to colleges.

    For anyone going from India, living in the USA is an expensive proposition. More so, if it is California or New York. The cost of real estate is fairly high. However thanks to social networking, it is easy to connect with former students and your own future classmates. It’s good to take their advice regarding places to stay, when to look for places etc. Settling in is not just easy but also fun. You make so many wonderful friends from all over the world that the entire process becomes such a joy. The only key here is to go with the flow.

     

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    Did you undergo a rigorous academic schedule? How was that different from your under-graduate course?

    My academic schedule was radically different from what I was used to in my under graduate course. My under graduate course was more flexible and most of my learning came from actually working. However, at Berkeley the academic schedule is pretty rigorous with some courses having continuous assessment. One is expected to be prepared with the readings before one heads to class. To me the most important thing that stood out was how much importance was given to practical application of concepts. For people who are used to the Indian method of examination, it’s quite a challenge to adapt to the new system. I was never before exposed to the concepts of open book examinations etc. However by the second semester, it became standard practice. The exams and the learning train you to think about application than mere learning by rote.

     

    Prof. Alexander Coward’s mail inspired thousands of students all over the world. How was your experience with faculty?

    Prof. Alexander Coward’s mail is a wonderful example how Berkeley gives you the freedom to be what you want to be, whether you are a student or a faculty. The faculty is extremely intelligent and it was a sheer delight to be a part of some classes which was interactive and stimulating. Most of the faculty members are also versatile and have a great experience. For eg, my New Venture Finance class was taught by a doyen in the Silicon Valley. Listening to his personal insights just made the class more interesting, relatable and real.

     

    How is the faculty & academic schedule (your typical day) over at Berkeley? Is there time enough for non-academic pursuits?

    The academic schedule primarily depends on the courses you elect to opt at the beginning of the semester. Some people had classes spread out over a week and for some it was clustered on a few days. Very early on you quickly learn to compromise on sleep for the one year that you are there. This leaves you with enough and more time for non-academic pursuits.

    The classes offered also provide for great variety. I also had the opportunity to audit a few classes in the South Asian Studies Department as I was very interested in those subjects. This gave me the opportunity to meet and interact with stalwarts such as Asma Jehangir, Gurcharan Das, Ramachandra Guha etc. I took a class called Negotiations ( on Saturdays) and this was literally the best decision of my life. I also managed to take a class from the HAAS , the B school at Berkeley called Power and Politics in Organizations. These classes are meant to develop your skills. To say that they changed my life would be an under-statement. There are so many skills that you pick up that aid you in my day to day work as a lawyer. For eg, in Negotiations class, our final grade mostly constituted of a simulated negotiation that was recorded. This helped us analyze and dissect every aspect of the negotiation including body language, effectiveness of skills, strengths and weaknesses of the negotiation tactic etc.

    On the other hand, Berkeley is literally the epitome of fun. Non-academic pursuits are just as integral as academic pursuits. I can safely say that I spent equal amounts of time if not more just having fun and trying or doing the things I loved.

     

    How did you go about your journey of job-hunting after graduation? How did Kuala Lumpur Regional Centre for Arbitration happen?

    My job hunting process began as early as January. By then, I had decided to focus my entire energy on finding a job in Arbitration or Negotiations. I was warned very early on that to get a break in the field of International Arbitration is nearly impossible. I spoke to a friend and mentor, Abhinav Bhushan who is with the ICC, Paris. His insights and experiences proved extremely useful as it was he who directed me to the possibility of applying to International Institutions. I learnt from his experiences and difficulties faced when applying. I took his advice to heart and set out to write to Institutions from the very beginning of January.

    I was forewarned about the multiple rejections that come your way. Persistence is the key to job hunting in a market like this. It is also important that while making these contacts, you make an effort to stay in touch with them even if they cannot at that moment give you a job.The job hunting process was in itself a learning experience.

     

    What does your work profile as a Case Counsel at KLRCA consist of?

    The Kuala Lumpur Regional Centre for Arbitration (KLRCA) was established in 1978 under the auspices of the Asian-African Legal Consultative Organisation (AALCO).

    My job at KLRCA primarily consists of case management. This involves from the commencement of an arbitration until the Award is rendered. As an International Case Counsel, I am in charge of monitoring every stage of the proceedings assuring that every step complies with the procedural rules that parties have agreed on. The cases varies in nature of the dispute, type of arbitration and whether it is an international or domestic arbitration. Case management involves many stages of the dispute resolution process, not only arbitration but mediation and recently adjudication as well.

    Apart from this, KLRCA offers Case Counsels the opportunity to lead and be involved in developmental projects both in Malaysia and in the International arena. Developmentally, KLRCA is a young Arbitration Centre. As such there is much room to be creative and come up with proposals to improve our services in arbitration and as a dispute resolution service provider generally. Since the appointment of the current Director, Professor Datuk Sundra Rajoo, KLRCA has increased the number of Cases drastically and has revamped itself as a complete ADR solution provider. KLRCA’s other ongoing projects are in diverse fields including Sports, Medico-Legal, Investment Arbitration, Domain Name Dispute Resolution amongst others. This proves to be not just challenging but also an extraordinary learning experience.

     

    When did you realise your calling for Arbitration? What would you advice budding arbitration enthusiasts?

    Arbitration is much of a keen interest. It was also not a sudden realization but that something that happened over time. The decision was made easier as I had previously the opportunity to experience various fields of law. From the time I was an intern, I worked on Litigation, Corporate and Transactional Law. Experiencing this first hand made it easier for me to narrow down on what interested me the most. Berkeley and my experience with studying Arbitration was the culminating point of an interest that grew gradually. I strongly believe that the Law is one field which is constantly adapting. After Berkeley and KLRCA, I realized the importance of not just arbitration, but also the necessity to focus on Alternate Dispute Resolution as a field in itself.

    As advice, I would pretty much say the same thing to budding Arbitration enthusiats. It makes the world of a difference when you keep an open mind. I would also suggest that you keep yourself update on the constant developments in the field of Arbitration. Speaking to people who are in the field is a definite advantage and necessary even.

     

    How do you think your LL.M has benefitted you in your career prospects?

    My LL.M at Berkeley not only equipped me with the knowledge and skills required for a career in Alternate Dispute Resolution, but also opened my mind to avenues I did not know existed before. The Berkeley tag is a definite advantage and a welcome addition to my resume. The contacts that I made in Berkeley break across territories and has already come in handy in my career. I think an LL.M is essential for anyone interested in the field of International Arbitration and this was no different in my case too.

    More importantly, it has given me fresh perspective on everything including the law.

     

    What would be your parting message to our readers?

    While it is important to plan ahead and work towards a career of your choice, it is just as important to experience every moment of it. The people around you change you and teach you just as much as the curriculum does. It can be very easy to get caught up in this and forget the real reason behind why one chose the law. I am no one to give advice. However, everytime I find that the process overwhelms me, I remember what Atticus ( Finch) says in the book:

    “Delete the adjectives and you will have the facts.”

    It’s that simple.

     

  • Pratika Shankar on bagging a PPO from WadiaGhandy, winning Best Student Advocate at Stetsons and importance of academics

    Pratika Shankar on bagging a PPO from WadiaGhandy, winning Best Student Advocate at Stetsons and importance of academics

    pratika-shankar-2Pratika (pronounced “Prateek”, as he puts it) is a graduate of the 2013 batch of RGNUL, Patiala. He is a working as an associate at Wadia Ghandy & Co., Bombay. He has a noteworthy academic, mooting and debating record and has gone about achieving things on the sole basis of his merit.

    In this brash, honest and gripping interview, he sheds light on, inter alia:

    • His journey from an intern to an associate
    • Getting recruited at Wadia Ghandy & Co.
    • Importance of academics, moots and debates

     

    Tell us a bit about your pre-university life. Did you have lawyers in your family? Why did you decide to study law? What inspired you to do so?

    I was born to a teacher-mother and an advocate-father- a genetic profile looking at which, one might completely dismiss my childhood to have been immersed in the deep sea of books and knowledge. But thankfully my parents knew better and let me make the most of my childhood, which was filled with all the quintessential colours of masti, shararat, mohobbat and cricket. From gully cricket tournaments to getting thrashed by school teachers arguably every single day (and mostly in front of my mother, being a teacher in the same school), to writing my first love letter in the sixth standard (and being thrashed again, by my father this time), I have been there, done that.

    Ironically, all ingredients forming the recipe of a good lawyer were missing in me all through my childhood, i.e., love for the books, clarity in thought and focus, etc. I was an avid debater, actor-director in plays, tabla player and a poet who dreamt of getting into the National School of Drama (“NSD”) one day. But then, childhood is like a honeymoon- a short but wonderful, memorable phase of life, which is immediately followed by the shock of reality and responsibility. And that how NSD gave way for the entry of law in my life- suggested to my mother by a colleague and passed on to me as a lucrative career opportunity in the 21st century India. At first I was dismissive as I had grown up watching my father stare at piles of papers containing gibberish every single day and knew for sure that this was not my cup of tea. But then, I saw Damini. Sunny Deol (the actor) shouting “tareekh pe tareekh” (the dialogues) in a full- house courtroom (the theatre) and winning the case (applause of the audience) – the decision was almost instantaneous.

     

    How would you describe your time at RGNUL Patiala? Also, please tell us one thing about your university days you regret the most, and one that gives you immense joy.

    My time at RGNUL, in one word, was an ‘experience’. It expanded the horizon of my world from one of the most backward states of the country to one of the most prosperous ones. I met people from different parts of the country, lived in a hostel, shared a room with a stranger, made new friends, got to understand the different (read drunk and bhand) states of human behaviour, engaged in petty batch politics, ego clashes with batch mates (and thus cold wars)- all of this and much more, all by myself. There were innumerable experiences, and each one of them had a lesson. I sincerely believe the transition from a child to a man is incomplete without spending some time in a hostel.

    Time spent in university was an altogether different set of experiences. There was stiff competition in the academics as well as co-curricular activities which I learnt to cope with. At the macro level, there were several institutional challenges. We got over some of them through our efforts, learnt to live with some in a matter-of-fact-way. My most enriching experience on the campus came from a third kind of institutional challenge we faced- which could be overcome with some effort by the authorities, but what I saw instead was tremendous lack of will. I was quite often reprimanded by the authorities for asking the right (read wrong) questions, and that also brought me face-to-face with certain harsher realities of the world we live in.

    One Regret- I did not channelize my time and energies at the right places and spent too much time regretting the choices I had made in life. This complex led me to create a superiority bubble for myself in the mediocre world that I lived in on which I kept floating it on the shallow waters for as long as I could. Had I come of out my bubble and dived into the deep ocean of knowledge and learning, I would have been a better person today.

    Biggest source of joy- I could write a book on this one, but let’s just say that amidst all the ups and downs of my stay at Patiala for five years, there was one perennial source of joy- not in Patiala but 67 kilometres away, in the city of Chandigarh. No matter what, I shall always rejoice my stay at RGNUL for as they say there is always a blessing in disguise- she is mine!

     

    You were the “Best Student Advocate” in Stetsons 2010 and a part of the 3rd-best team. Also, you were a part of one of the top 5 teams at Henry Dunant. Please share with us the relevance of moot courts and what you’ve learnt from it.

    I feel mooting is one of the most important events in the journey of a law student en route to becoming a successful lawyer. Most of my fellow colleagues would say that mooting is important only if one wants to pursue litigation, or to make the CV look fancy as you also pointed out. Here, I beg to differ with my learned friends. If you noticed in the first sentence, I have used the word ‘lawyer’ and not ‘advocate’ for a reason- I personally believe that success in moot courts are not only about your oratory skills, or a neatly formatted memorial. Rather, moot courts are a test of how much life you can pump into hypothetical facts and events and how many different vantage points you can create to interpret what is otherwise written in black and white. To accomplish this, one needs to (i) have thorough knowledge about the legal position; (ii) develop an out-of-the-box approach; and finally (iii) put it across to the other person (the judge) confidently, better than anyone else. I feel that these three qualities can be very effective armoury, be it in a courtroom, a negotiating table or a structuring meeting of a corporate transaction. Having given you all of this gyaan, let me also admit that my prime motivation behind mooting, and mooting well (remember my bubble?) was that it does look fancy in the CV!

     

    You were also an avid parliamentary debater. What about it made it one of your passions in university? Do you believe good speaking skills are beneficial for a lawyer even if he’s not going to litigate in the court?

    Well, debating was not a passion I developed in my university days. I was an avid debater during school as well, and thanks to the constant encouragement by my parents, I had already participated in around a couple of dozen inter-school competitions before being admitted to RGNUL. However, I was introduced to the world of parliamentary debating only at RGNUL and frankly, it was an altogether different level of experience and joy (credits due here to my teammates Nitin Sharma and Sourabh Rath).

    What drove me to debating since childhood? My love for speech, my desire to make myself heard and the sense of accomplishment I felt when my point of view prevailed over all others that were presented. I feel very sad that debating is always treated inferior to mooting and other co-curricular activities; it always plays second fiddle to the star ‘mooting achievements’ column on one’s CV. As per me, a good debater needs to possess the same qualities I mentioned earlier in case of mooting- knowledge over a wide range of issues and events; an out-of-the-box thinking; and confidence to present your point of view better than your opponent. Additionally, one thing which differentiates debates (and probably makes it even more difficult) from moots is lack of time. In a parliamentary debate, you get a total preparation time of 20 minutes to prepare 3 sets of speeches on a topic you may not know jack about. It might sound scary, but what is does is that it teaches you to think on your toes. You have to keep evolving and re-inventing your arguments, and mostly during your speech. And needless to say- you better possess these skills before entering a negotiation room rather than your opponent possessing them and putting it to good use to counter everything you say.

     

    Throughout university you managed to maintain an excellent GPA. How did you do it and how did it help you in your career?

    Firstly, I don’t think that being able to maintain a respectable GPA is any achievement to boast about; rather it should be the primary focus of every student. I mean, isn’t that why we went to the law school in the first place?! Honestly, in my own eyes, all the extra-curricular achievements would have counted for nothing, had they come at the cost of academics. Having said that, to be very frank, I was never one of those nerdy types you would find mugging books in the library every evening. But the desire to do well in academics was always there, because I was clear that if there would ever be one thing which would always speak for itself throughout my professional career, it would be the first heading on my CV, i.e., ‘Academic Credentials’.

     

    On a much more serious note, for my academic success, I would like to duly credit my effeminate handwriting and the constant support of Gautam Bhargav (Roll No. 320) and Aditya Ranjan (Roll No. 322) during every single paper, every single semester, which motivated me and ensured that I attempted each and every question asked in the paper!

     

    To my knowledge, you’ve never used ‘jugaad’ to secure your internships. What was your method of networking as a law student? What was the procedure you followed to apply for internships with leading law firms?

    In my view, when you apply for an internship riding on your CV without any jugaad, the kind of response you get is highly driven by two factors- the name of your institution and your luck (your CV must reach the right inbox at the right time). While nothing much can be said or done about the luck element here, I certainly hope and believe that with the students of the so-called lower grade law schools doing tremendously well in whatever limited internship opportunities that they get, in the coming years, the internship selection procedure will become institution neutral. This would serve two purposes- one, it will ensure that the best of the candidates are chosen to get trained at the best of the places, irrespective of how they had performed in an entrance examination three / four years ago; and two, it will eliminate the infamous jugaad element to a large extent, which has led to many students (including me) feeling highly demoralised and demotivated during their college life.

    As for how I could manage some of the good internships on my own, well, at first there was luck which created an opportunity for me, and then it was my hard work during a particular internship which led to better ones. You will appreciate the fact that the world we live in (especially law firms) is a very small place and networking is not that difficult if you actually give it some appreciation. Having said that, I also firmly believe that the only sustainable networking methodology is the one built on the foundation of your efficiency, and topped up by your confident, yet humbled and polite approach (never read that as a sycophancy- that is arguably the single most detested thing ever) while interacting with your seniors.

     

    You interned at Wadia Ghandy & Co. (“WG”) and then bagged a job offer. Please tell us about this journey from being an intern to becoming an associate. Any tips on how to crack a law firm interview?

    I interned at WG only once and for a period of three weeks with the banking and finance team. Honestly, this internship was a real eye opener for me in terms of how little I knew about the law and how hard I still needed to work in order to find a place for myself as an associate at a good law firm. So, I never really expected to be called for a job interview or for that matter even a second internship.

    However, towards the end of my ninth semester, I applied to WG and requested for an interview slot, which to my surprise, I was instantaneously granted. For me, it looked like the battle half won. However, with that frame of mind, I was in for a bumpy road ahead (a tip here is to always remember that that the real test is not procuring a slot for the interview, but the interview itself). Accordingly, the first round of interview was full of rigorous questions and answers (read questions and very few short answers). While I did somehow manage to advance to the next round of interview, a word of caution was thrown at me that my performance in the first round was not at all satisfactory and I needed to pull up my socks. In the second round there were lesser questions and lengthier answers and the interviewers were happy with my performance. Before I could jump up in joy for having procured a job offer, I was told that there would be a third round of interview, and this time with the big boss- Mr. Ashish Ahuja, the Managing Partner of WG. I was in serious doubt- given that I have already cleared the technical interview, would this be a personality evaluation round, or would there be more questions, difficult questions. Sensibly though, I prepared for the latter. Actually, it was not an interview at all. Rather, it was Dale Steyn charging at you on a WACA pitch with a swinging new ball and continuously bowling for five full overs with you having no idea after each ball as to what the next ball would be! The questions were not difficult, but absolutely unpredictable. I mean who could expect a question on Muslim succession laws straight after having terribly negotiated a question on renvoi?! But after getting hit on the body for quite a few times, I finally decided to do it the Rahul Dravid way- (i) Don’t flash at every ball and know your limits; (ii) Confidently play the balls within the hitting zone; (ii) Even more confidently leave alone the ones outside the off stump of your mind. You might score slowly, but you will also have fewer edges, and therefore the risk to get dismissed.

    Apart from a tactful approach during an interview, you also need an approach for the interview.  There are three suggestions that I would offer here:

    (i) rather than delving too much into understanding the fancy sounding jargons like hedge funds / private equity / project finance, focus on three core areas around which most of the questions are built- Transfer of Property Act, 1882, Indian Contract Act, 1872 and the Companies Act, 2013;

    (ii) keep yourself abreast with the day to day happenings in the legal world, including any latest statutory enactments and judgments; and

    (iii) always remember that no interviewer expects you to know all answers, simply because you cannot. But it is important that every word written in your CV (from your assignments during your internships to your hobbies) and all related questions along with their best possible answers should be dancing in front of your eyes for all times during the interview.

    One last thing- do not lie during an interview; trust me, you will get caught!

     

    How has your experience been so far with Wadia Ghandy? Please talk to us about the work culture in Wadia Ghandy and Mumbai in particular.

    My experience at WG has been very enriching. I have been working in the general corporate laws team led by Mr. Ashish Ahuja and it has been my good fortune to have worked directly with him on several matters. Particularly, I feel lucky to be working with seniors who not only give me good matters to work on, but provide a congenial work environment with a good work-life balance, which are things, as I have often heard, generally missing in a law firm setup, largely attributed to the tremendous work pressure and cut throat competition. I firmly believe that while the kind of work we get is very important for career building, the right work environment is equally important to ensure maximum efficiency. After all, if you ask an ISRO scientist to monitor the Mangalyaan while sitting in a fish market, I am not sure how that well would turn out to be.

     

    Please share with us a few things you’ve learned after spending a year as a corporate lawyer, which you believe the young aspirants out there ought to know before they step into the real world.

    More often than not, I hear the present interns and future lawyers say- ‘one automatically gets to learn most of the associates’ work while interning at multiple law firms for multiple times’. Please allow me to bust this myth for you. Whoever feels this way is living in a fool’s paradise because honestly, you can never learn to work like an associate unless you have actually worked as an associate. And the reason is expectation, or in fact the lack of it. As an intern, you might be over enthusiastic about an assignment you have gotten from a partner (and you should be, too) but when you look at the same assignment from the eyes of the partner who gave you the assignment, you will be amazed to see where it stands on the weight of expectations. The quality of your work will always be judged as a student of law, and not as a lawyer. And going a step further, if you think that “wo associate gadha hai. Partner to uska kaam bhi mujhe de raha hai” it shows nothing but your naiveté. I have taken assignments as an intern, and now I give assignments to interns. And after being on both the sides, I can tell you- the qualities which will make you stand out as an intern at a law firm are dedication, diligence, humility and politeness (again, never read politeness as sycophancy- you will get the most-creepy-intern award at the end of your internship). Lastly, always try and be as professional as you can. I don’t think I need to give any gyaan on the ‘real world’ after college- you will know it when you get there. Till then, no need to stress too much.

     

    Thank you for giving me this wonderful opportunity to share my experiences. I am truly humbled. And allow me to end the interview in the words of our own rock star Prime Minister- “May the force be with you!” “Namoste!”