Category: Featured Insights

  • Ashitha Bhagwan on being an Attorney at Royse Law Firm, LL.M. from NYU and the American Legal Industry

    Ashitha Bhagwan on being an Attorney at Royse Law Firm, LL.M. from NYU and the American Legal Industry

    Ashitha Bhagwan graduated from University Law College, Bangalore in 2007 and subsequently completed an LL.M. from New York University. After working in India and Singapore, she is currently practicing in California. Being a dual licensed corporate attorney focusing on start-ups and mid-market companies, she regularly counsels on a wide range of corporate issues such as formation, equity structure, employment, general corporate governance, intellectual property protection and commercial transactions for domestic and international clients.

    We took this opportunity to ask her about:

    • Her experience at New York University
    • Work atmosphere in the U.S.
    • Working as an attorney at Royse Law Firm

     

    “Law school”, have become synonymous with the NLUs. Have you faced any such bias during your career? What would you say to the future graduates of ULCB regarding this?

    You will realize as you grow into the profession that what matters is what you made out of the school that you graduated from. And as you are well aware, opportunities that present themselves to the legal student community are open to all students, irrespective of the school. The school that you graduate from cannot really hold you back – you are at liberty to be as involved in this profession as you would like to be.

    I didn’t let the comfort of life at law college get to me while I was completing my course. I used every opportunity I got to explore and build an identity beyond the shadow of my college. The legal community is a closely knit profession so it’s important that you network among your peers, focus on your courses and make the most of the internships/moot courts that you are given an opportunity to participate in.

     

    After graduating from ULC you had taken up a Post Graduate Diploma in Intellectual Property Rights from NLSIU. What attracted you to this course? How has it impacted your overall career trajectory?

    [sociallocker] I wanted to get some background and insight into Intellectual Property (IP) laws since I was interested in corporate laws, and IP and corporate laws intersect at various junctures. I completed this course alongside my ULC degree, so it was twice as much pressure but I managed to learn quite a lot from the course. It helped me master the basics of IP laws which have proven imperative in my day-to-day practice.

     

    Of all the internships that you have done, which ones do you think really enhanced your chances of getting admission in such a prestigious University? How would you recommend students to go about choosing their internships?

    The thing about internships is that it is not so much a single stint that will lead to your LL.M admission, as it is a holistic view of your entire career as a law student. I enjoyed all my internships since each one gave me an opportunity to explore a new facet of law. In the end, it became clear to me what I wanted to pursue in future.

    Since most students in India are enrolled in the five year course, they have at least 8 breaks (short and long) in which they could potentially intern. It is important that you show for these times when you are not required to be in class, and they all add up to your end goal. You could certainly spend a break or two doing something you like, unconnected to your end goal, but for a post graduate degree, it is important that your resume tell a story that leads up to the LL.M.

     

    How did you decide upon New York University School of Law for your Post-Graduation, from the plethora of options available in the United States?

    It was a really simple choice – I had applied to 6 schools (in US and UK) and got admitted in 5, and NYU was simply the best of them all. It was located in NY (which is the financial hub), the faculty was awe-inspiring (we had professors coming in from all over the world, even legal luminaries that I had only read about as a student), and it was in the top 3 when I enrolled. Also, I knew that I would have the most fun living in NY.

     

    How did you get through the selection process of NYU? What would you say increased the probability of your candidature? What are the things one should do while at law school to have to sail through these selection processes?

    As any other potential post-graduate student, you need to show that your application is different from the thousands that the school receives that year. What helped me was top grades, a solid set of internships, publications, and victories at national level moot court competitions.

    Make sure that your 5 years in law school count – pursue internships/clinics that are of interest to you, participate in moot courts, write articles, work with your professors (if possible) on articles they may need research assistants for, and, most of all, make sure your grades don’t slip. Universities generally look for well-rounded individuals to mould into lawyers – if you can show that the natural next step after your time in law-school leads up to the LL.M., I think you would have better chance.

    Also, you should tailor your resume/application for the specific school – some prefer work experiences, some are more academic oriented so, keep that in mind while preparing an application.

     

    How was your time in NYU School of Law? How is the academic workload there?

    I enjoyed it! Workload was heavy, takes getting used to, but you learn pretty quick when you’re there – the adrenalin and the need to catch up is pretty high, so you will be fine. Prepare to study hard, and party harder!

     

    How difficult was it for you, as a student who had theretofore been used to the Indian education system, to adjust to the environment of a US University?

    It was very different from what I was used to, but as I said, you become a quick study when you are there. I suppose you learn to swim when you are thrown in the water! You also have a lot of flexibility (with courses, timings etc.) which gives you the opportunity to be creative with your courses.

     

    Corporate Law is oft seen as a dry arena of Law, sometimes with humongous workload. What made you gravitate towards this field?

    It is all about perspective. The way I look at it is that I have an opportunity to facilitate deals. One of the things which makes it very interesting for me is that I have the opportunity to work with entrepreneurs working on exciting products and help those products reach markets where it might have never reached a few years ago. My clientele is primarily from the technology sector and being part of the ever-changing advancing landscape of technological innovations in the Silicon Valley is a great opportunity.

     

    ashitha-bhagwan1Before starting work as an attorney you had to clear the Bar exam at California. Given that it is one of the toughest bar exams what was your experience?

    The California Bar Exam is the toughest exam that I have ever taken. It required my undivided attention and focus, and I am so glad it is over! If you are planning to crack this exam, remember that you have to give it your all – one hundred and ten percent. I know of people who have attempted this multiple times and failed. The volume of material is overwhelming but tackle it in small sections and you will be able to get through it.

     

    Which events led to your induction into Royse Law Firm? Were there any interviews or selection processes?

    I have always been looking for opportunities where I would not be stuck to a desk, but be able to meet new people and interact with clients on a regular basis. The Royse Law Firm presented itself as the perfect opportunity. It happened by being at the right place, at the right time. After meeting with team I was convinced that there was a great potential for me here, and I have enjoyed my time here ever since I joined.

     

    What is it like working in a law firm? How hectic is it? Are there new challenges everyday or has work settled into a predictable pattern?

    As a lawyer, there is never a dull moment. It is pretty busy – entrepreneurs always have interesting challenges and it’s our job to come up with even more interesting solutions. Being innovative is part of the job, and I love that I have the opportunity to do that.

     

    Tell us about your work at Royse Law. Can you tell us about a few of the most challenging problems you have faced thus far?

    I work with start-ups and mid-market companies. Since my practice encompasses cross border transactions, I am often required to reconcile the different jurisdictional implications of a single transaction. We work on strategizing the best way to ensure that the product can be accessed in the same way in a foreign jurisdiction, as it would be in the US. What I love is that I get to oversee a well-rounded perspective of working across multiple jurisdictions – tax, IP and corporate all of which are an integral part of a corporate lawyer’s career.

     

    How different is the work environment in the USA, from that in India?

    One thing I have noticed is that there is a clear line between your professional and personal life in the US. I find that that line in India is a little blur. Other things that are more specific to the US work environment are that it is more formal (people love setting up meetings), a little impersonal and is extremely professional.

     

    What are your plans for the next 5 years in the various fields of Corporate Law?

    Corporate Law is a broad term, and I have had the opportunity to explore various facets of it. I will probably be in the corporate law practice in the foreseeable future.

     

    What would be your word of advice to Law Students who want to practice law in the US?

    Read. Be well informed before you make any decision. Information today is very easily accessible and there is no reason that you should not make use of that.

     
    If you would like to reach Ashitha Bhagwan, Esq., feel free to connect with her on LinkedIn, alternatively you can also email her at abhagwan@rroyselaw.com

    [/sociallocker]

  • Protik Prokash Banerjee, Advocate, High Court, Calcutta, on litigation, and his diverse experience

    Protik Prokash Banerjee, Advocate, High Court, Calcutta, on litigation, and his diverse experience

    protik-banerjee3Protik Prokash Banerjee had graduated from Calcutta University in 1994. Thereafter he joined the Calcutta High Court. With two decades of experience as Advocate, Protik Da, as he is fondly addressed by peers and juniors, has several landmark judgments to his name.

    In this interview we spoke to him about:

    • His career as a young lawyer at the Calcutta High Court
    • Learning from his father
    • Studying in Calcutta University

     

    We had far too many questions to ask him, we have published the rest of the interview here: Protik Prokash Banerjee on dealing with success and challenges of a litigator, mettle of law students and opportunities at the Calcutta HC

     

     

    What motivated you to pursue law?

    My father and mother were both lawyers.  Normally this would have been an incentive to follow in their footsteps but in my case they did not want me to be a lawyer at all.  My father wanted me to fulfil the dreams he had abandoned in order to provide for his family – father, mother, brothers and sisters.  He wanted me to be a doctor.  Like Walter Mitty, I wanted to be a Nobel Prize winning author, the Prime Minister of India, an Indian Kal El, the man who won the Nobel Peace Prize by fostering disarmament, a scientist who found the cure for cancer, AIDS and the million ills a flesh is heir to – I had also wanted to be a pilot, an engine driver, an athlete (though my immensely uncouth obese body precluded anything that physical almost at the outset) and on certain occasions both Captain Ahab and the Whale simultaneously.

    From the time that I found myself, and that was a very long time ago, I had wanted to be a professor of English Literature.  I wanted to teach English, its nuances, the stories of the world and its civilization, the fascinating myths that make up humanity and somewhere along the line I had wanted to write.  I wanted to read everything that had ever been written, etched, sculpted, typed or printed.  All of that needed money.

    My father, a Senior Advocate of the Hon’ble High Court at Calcutta, told me in Class X that I could do all of that, of course, but while he would leave me something, it would never be enough to fuel a lifestyle that could afford all of those things unless I did something sufficiently remunerative. He pointed out that a professor did not really make much money – we are talking about 1986, when it was still a Congress Majority, Rajiv Gandhi led government – and what I wanted to do needed a lot more than a salary.

    He had always wanted to be a doctor, but for financial constraints had studied law instead, and law was a good living but he did not want me join law; he said that this profession was a graveyard of many talents, and that there were few other places where there were so many educated beasts.  He wanted me to be a doctor or an IAS officer because in those days the perquisites of the latter allowed a pleasant lifestyle.

    I took a deep look at myself and found that there were only three things that I could actually do – read, write and speak in English.  All of these, including the debates I used to revel in, told me that I might make a go of a career in law.  So I decided, way back in 1986 when I was still in Class X, that I would study law and become a lawyer and practise in the High Court.

    I never told my parents this, because my father had his heart set on a medical career.  I went on to qualify in the West Bengal Joint Entrance and was just about eligible to make it to some small Medical College in the boondocks (in those days all were government colleges here) but ultimately did not submit the form at the time of counselling.  My parents ranted and raved, but I persuaded them that law was what I wanted to do and I would not have been happy as a doctor.

     

    How did your father’s career influence yours?

    My father practised essentially in the civil and constitutional writ jurisdictions in the High Court at Calcutta.  He was a Senior Advocate.  He met my mother in Court where she practised in the civil side and after six years of courtship they got married and she left the profession and became a homemaker.

    There are so many things that I remember about my father, as a man, as a father, as a professional (though I did not have the opportunity to work with him except in two cases), that it is difficult to choose one memory over the other.  My father’s watchword was “Maaliker Daya” (The Grace of God) and this was his favourite greeting and his answer to anyone who asked after him.

    As a father, I always thought he was the best that a boy could have.  He was a busy advocate, but in my childhood, I never found that to be an obstacle to doing things with him.  He would always keep Friday evenings free for us; that would be an evening when he would take us for a show, whether a play, a show, a music recital or motion picture, and dinner.

    When we came back, he would sit up with me and tell me stories from the books he had read.  He read quite a lot even outside law.  In fact, my long term love affair with books started because I wanted to read the originals of those fascinating stories he would tell me.  The originals were always pale copies compared to the rich tapestry that my father, a story-teller of almost Bardic imagination, would weave for me.  He would adapt the toughest of books, the most adult of themes, to a one person audience: his son.  Saturdays he would work through, but Sunday afternoons he would play cards with his friends.  He regaled us with stories about court-room battles at the breakfast table and dinner and I picked up words like ‘interim order’, ‘status quo’ and ‘caveat’ and when we fought I would say ‘You have no jurisdiction to say this’ or that “I have a right to be heard”.

    He never worked beyond 1 AM, and would, almost religiously, read fiction and philosophy, every night until 3 AM, till 2004.  Nevertheless he would be awake every morning by 5 AM, go to the market and still be in Court by 10:15 AM.  He had three passions apart from his family: books, travelling and going to the market every morning.  Later on, when he had stopped going to Court, he still kept on going to the market, but once a week instead of every day.

    For a man who idolized his father, and who in the ultimate analysis (as I understand now) chose law because he wanted to be like his father and not just for fueling a lifestyle (yes I know that I contradict myself, but I am human and what seemed to be the motivation when I was sixteen or seventeen years old, is not what I found was the real inspiration behind what I became) what happened between my eighteenth year and my thirty second?  I do not know.  For some reason, that is unclear to me even today, though my love for him did not diminish one bit, the distance between our minds grew.

    For these fourteen years, though we shared the same roof and table and went out together and shared space, it seemed to me that he did not love me.  After becoming a lawyer, he threw me out of his chambers within two months, I am sure for just cause, and refused to work with me on any brief; he refused to recommend me to anyone and in fact asked learned advocates on record who wanted to brief the two of us together to take back one of the briefs.

    His most tender comment to me, in those days, when I was hurting after having lost a case or having been lambasted in Court, and knowing that there would be no sympathy still I would grudgingly ask him where I was wrong, was not an analysis of the case and what I should have done, but a seemingly unfeeling “It’s your profession and your case.  You find out what went wrong”. He would of course blandly say what he said to everyone else “When I came to the profession, I had a skin.  Now I have a hide.  Develop a hide.”

    I thought in those days that this was rejection.  Now I know it was not.  He wanted me to make it on my own.  For a long time I thought I had.  Then I re-discovered that every breath I took, I owed to him, and not just my flesh and blood.  I discovered that the books I had read I had first found in his Library.  I discovered that the principles of law I researched and that I argued, I had first heard and retained in my sub-conscious at the dinner table; I did not really have an identity.  To most people I was still “Mukul Da’r chhele” (Mukul da’s son).  I used to resent it then.  I am proud of it now.

    I never heard a word of praise from him till 2001.  In 1998, when I had been practicing for only three years he stopped attending Court regularly, saying that he had worked enough and now it was my turn;  but from 2002 he hardly attended Court and after 2004 when he had his first heart attack, he never visited the High Court again.

    I resolved my issues with him on May 26, 2001.  I remember the date.  That too, was his gift to me.  It was he who initiated the process that brought his prodigal son back to him.  The first word of praise I heard from him was the greatest.  In September 2009, the West Bengal State Unit of the Indian Law Institute was kind enough to award me the Advocate General’s Trophy for Outstanding Emerging Lawyer.  My father had been too ill to attend so I came back with the trophy and showed it to him, ready for some disparaging remark.  The frail old man, my father, rose unsurely from his bed and embraced me.  He said “You have made our family proud.”  There were tears in his eyes.  This was the best, the highest and the most treasured compliment.

    His words of advice were “Read your brief, do not mislead the Court, do your best and the rest is upto the Court.”  I have tried my best to live by these three principles and though, unlike him, I do not refuse a case because the client is not morally in the right, I have always tried, as I once said to an opposing counsel who was elevated later on, and who accused me of only defending bad men and their acts, “My client may be a bad man, but even a bad man is entitled to equal protection of the laws.”

    Lawyers like him are rare.  A gentleman with the same humane treatment for everyone, and an unshakeable sense of what was right, with an integrity that was incapable of being dented and who never supported what he thought was unjust, in life or in law.  I know I can never be like him nor acquire one tenth of his professional stature or status.

    It was only years later that I understood that he had done all this so that I could develop on my own and not have to worry about being in his shadow.  I know now, that I can never be out of his shadow and frankly, I do not want to be.  I’d rather have him alive, casting those long shadows, than be without him.

     

    You graduated from Calcutta University in ’94. What was the legal profession like back then?

    The High Court at Calcutta was a wholly different place in 1994.  No junior advocate, whether he started out in the Appellate Side or Original Side, would dare to embark on his professional journey without having attended Senior’s Chambers as a pupil for at least two to three years.  Most stayed on for at least five years and did not open their mouths to argue cases until the end of that time, contenting themselves with seeking adjournments and pass-overs of matters for their Senior.

    They spent their time in the Chambers reading law from the law-reports and the text books and bare Acts, working out the cases in which their Senior had been briefed (including preparing a List of Dates, jotting down the page numbers where the material facts were pleaded and the material documents were annexed, and attempting to summarize the points of law involved and the case-laws on the point) for the first five years; if they were devilling with a learned Advocate on Record they usually accompanied the Clerk to the Department to get to know the procedure first hand.  Otherwise, they would attend Court with their Seniors and stand to one side and follow the proceedings or assist him if he so chose.  The present trend where young law graduates enroll themselves, crack the AIBE, put on their bands, morning coat and gown (most do not use wing collars like we do) and accept arguing briefs or cases from the first day, or expect to get cases from the first day and to earn from day one, was unthinkable. For me it still is.

    None of our law-schools or colleges teaches the practice of law.  They only teach the theory and in some cases the law itself.  Litigation cannot be taught in class room.  It is a profession and thus must be learnt by following the practitioners in real life.  One month long internships are not sufficient though they are a start.

    Of course as usual I did not practise what I now profess.  Since I was thrown out of my father’s chambers within 2 months of enrollment (as I wrote in the answer to an earlier question) I had to shift for myself.  I took on cases, shocked seniors with my precociousness and the arrogance of ignorance, made mistakes, got bawled out by Judges and other advocates alike, but corrected them myself after reading the law.

    In 1994 there was another thing that was different from today.  By and large the Original Side of the High Court comprised people who practised exclusively in the Original Side and those who practised in the Appellate Side tended to do so exclusively.  Of course there were glorious exceptions, but from what I saw it was very difficult for a junior lawyer to get briefed in an Original Side matter as junior counsel unless he practised exclusively as counsel in the Original Side or a junior lawyer to get briefed in the Appellate Side as junior counsel unless it was his case and he had signed the vakalatnama.

    I remember only the warm welcome that I received when I, having no background in the Original Side, started appearing in suits and interlocutory matters briefed by a young advocate on record who had just become a member of the Incorporated Law Society.  I would like to flatter myself that I was part of the change that happened.  Now the distinction between the sides and the practitioners has blurred so much that we are all advocates first.  This is a welcome change.

    Another thing that has changed is the plight of first generation lawyers.  As you may understand, law reports, journals and law books are very important for a lawyer to train himself.  Those who have lawyers in their families tend to have it easy because their forbears or relatives already have a rich library.  In 1994, those who did not come from such a family had no access to such books, often rare and very old (such as Indian Appeals of the late 19th century) and there only hope was to find chambers which allowed juniors access to the library even for their personal work.

    These were not rare, but getting into them was difficult.  Now, with the internet and legal software and most particularly Indiankanoon (no they did not pay me to endorse them!) it is no longer a problem.  So long as a young man is prepared to work hard and go through the documents and the digital records, he can access almost any judgment, any case and any principle of law that has been uploaded and most have been, in one archive or another.

    I do not have friends.  I used to have them when I left school but I was the only boy from my batch in Calcutta Boys’ School who had chosen law in 1988.  As I wrote in the answer to an earlier question, I had made it very clear from 1986 that I would study law to become a lawyer, and so my friends were not surprised.  They were surprised though that I adhered to my decision even after cracking the West Bengal Joint Entrance Examinations in the medical stream, however lowly my rank was.

    Very frankly, in the preliminary years of law college I thought that the Code of Civil Procedure which I kept on reading was the most boring thing on the world and the Constitution of India was a very presumptuous document ‘copied-pasted’ from foreign sources by overbearing lawyers with a colonial hangover and chips on their shoulders to try and show-off before the world “See how civilized, liberal, secular and enlightened we are.”  With time my ideas have undergone a change.  I now understand that they were trying their best to guide a largely disempowered multitude from the centuries of forced darkness into light.  I now feel that the Code of Civil Procedure is the most fascinating labyrinth which can exercise our minds.  Apart from the Original Side Rules, that is to say!

    My initial ambitions?  I wanted to be the best arguing lawyer in the country.  To help bring justice to those who could not afford it.  I understood that drafting was important only after an year!

     

    How was your experience as a student of Calcutta University in the midst of an enlightened community of people?

    The atmosphere in the University College of Law (Hazra Campus) was politically charged but hardly violent.  This is because we had only one party – the Students Federation of India, which ran the Union and for most of my college life, got candidates it supported, elected unopposed.  All our festivals and programmes were given a definite Leftist political slant and while India was facing a balance of payment crisis and was debating entering the open market, we were still discussing the merits of the education system in Cuba over that of USA.  We were discussing the imperialistic aggression of the Allied Forces against Iraq but hardly bothered about the fact that because of V.P. Singh and his ill-judged attempt to create a mark on history, people were burning themselves over reservation for “Other Backward Classes”.  I consider the politics of those days to be puerile, immature and ultimately pointless.

    By and large students participated in politics because they had to and because it allowed them to taste the gravy train of attendance percentage without attending classes, get cheap recognition when they had done nothing to deserve it, because they were friendless and in some cases because they wanted a career in politics and this was the stepping stone.  I was no exception. I mouthed the platitudes, tried to avoid going out in ‘processions’, but used the union connection to get my percentage of attendance without actually attending all the classes.  Those things have ended, now.

    Now, I am told that the administration has become very strict and unless you actually attend classes, you are not shown to have been present. I will not call the community of people at College enlightened.  Some of them were, as they are everywhere, but most were ordinary people like you and I.  It was nothing like your national law schools with the high drama and passion play and moots and what not.  We just served time till we got our degrees.  We learnt very little at College except about University life.  I used the time for binges, orgies and having fun.  Studies were for one month before the examination.  That was sufficient. Of course, I kept on reading a lot throughout college life, not necessarily law.

     

    What were your plans after graduation?

    I always wanted to practise law. My plans were to join my father’s chambers and start practising in High Court.  Both my plans came true.  However the first ended in two months as I have answered you before.  The second is still continuing.  I never thought of doing anything else.

    In 1994 a fresh law graduate could practise law in the courts or the fast burgeoning tribunals.  He could gather a few years’ experience and sit for his judicial service examinations and become a judge in the subordinate judiciary. He could also sit immediately for the Civil Services examinations where he would get exemption in the law papers. He could become a law-officer in a government concern, but in those days that needed a few years of experience.  He could also take a job in the legal department of business-houses and corporates, but normally these were based on recommendation and contacts and not on merit.

    Of course he could take a job in a solicitor firm (they were not called law firm in those days and most lawyers looked down upon them, yes, even the top tier law firms of today were just ‘solicitors’ to most advocates) but the pay was not very high in those days.  By and large people studied law to become lawyers and practise law and not sit behind desks and get a salary while they specialized in doing research for partners or clients without ever having to argue in court.

    You did not do a ‘fee quote’ or get mandates from your client; your client engaged or retained you and executed a vakalatnama in your favour or wrote a letter retaining your services and paying you an initial retainer or conference fees.

    You yourself took responsibility for what you did and did not hide behind paragraphs of disclaimers and the anonymity of a team.  You learnt procedure and did what lawyers do instead of knowing the theory and hunting around desperately for someone to tell you how to write a petition for adjournment in the lower court.

     

    Back in ’95 just out of college, how did you manage to get a mentor for yourself?

    As I said, I started out with my father.  That ended two months into my profession.  So that is how I found my mentor and lost him. Thereafter my only mentors were my books and the learned Seniors I was briefed with.  You might say that I was more of an Eklavya than an Arjun.

    Seriously, I think that the only things that distinguish a senior from a junior are knowledge and experience, the latter including court-craft.  Experience you cannot gain without actually putting in those long years of work and doing a lot of cases.  Yet knowledge is something that both seniors and juniors get from the same books.  So long as you have access to books I think you can get by, given the calibre and high quality of law students today.

    In retrospect, I could have done much better if I had a mentor.  If I had devilled under someone like Mr. Anindya Kumar Mitra or Mr. Saktinath Mukherjee, learned Senior Advocates, today I could have been a complete lawyer.  I take those names only as examples, iconic though these learned Seniors are.  In my formative years, I worked a lot with Mr. Bimal Kumar Chatterjee (presently the learned Advocate General of West Bengal), Mr. Pratap Chatterjee, and then Mr. Anindya Kumar Mitra, learned Senior Advocates and Barristers-at-Law.

    After a few years experience I also worked with Mr. Shyama Prasanna Roy Chowdhury and Mr. Ashok Banerjee, learned Senior Advocates and after ten years of practice, with Mr. Kalyan Bandyopadhyay, learned Senior Advocate.  I guess if I had been fortunate enough to have any of them as mentors today I would have a far better grounding in law, court-craft, etiquette and the profession.

    You need a mentor to guide you in the profession, to protect you from the consequences of your mistakes, both in your cases and in the profession.  If you are a first generation lawyer you need a mentor to show you the way in which a case is to be approached, the way in which strategies are formulated, and the manner in which a point of law is formulated and even for the law-resources such as rare law reports, text books and journals.

    Sometimes it is as basic as knowing the format for a draft.  A mentor, a Senior as we call them, in the profession is like a Guru of ancient times.  Junior lawyers must learn how to sit at his feet (figuratively if not literally) and learn from him, what he does and how he does it.  There should be absolute humility, obedience and surrender.  Reminds me of an album by some of my favourite artistes – “Love, Devotion, Surrender”.  Remember, unless you can approach your Teacher with absolute humility and consciousness of your own ignorance, you will never learn; if you are already too full of yourself and what you think you know, nothing new will percolate.

    Remember, litigation means appearing before an adjudicator.  He is only human.  It is the Mentor, with his vast experience, who can guide you and teach you how adjudicators can be lawfully persuaded and what are the ways in which you can train yourself to do it instinctively.

    These are the reasons why a Mentor is still indispensable in the world of litigation.

     

    How valuable would you say your legal education was at Calcutta University?

    All my theory I learnt from books, some of which I read while at the University.  All of the knowledge of law, the practical field of litigation I learnt while practising in High Court, observing others and from my own mistakes and while doing cases.  I must confess that I learnt almost nothing of law at the University College of Law – not because there was nothing to learn, but because except for a learned Advocate who took us in Legal Language and Drafting, none of our teachers of law actually knew much about what they were teaching.

    Our legal language and drafting lecturer was a practising solicitor of some reputation and he could teach us Conveyancing without referring to any book whatsoever.  He did refer us to one book, De Souza’s Conveyancing, which was an invaluable treasure.  The others just read out notes or from the bare Act which we could have done by ourselves sitting at home.  So I would say that the only reason why the University was important was because I had to go through it to get a degree which enabled me to enroll myself as an Advocate.  I would tend to agree with the people who say that all they have learnt is in their years of practice – with one caveat.  They must have studied in institutions like mine.

     

    protik-banerjee1

    How was the court atmosphere back then?

    We must make one thing very clear.  Litigation is not about oratory.  It may have been in the years of Cicero and Caesar but not now, not here.  Judges are there to adjudicate cases and lawyers assist them.  Our job is to present the facts of our case as concisely and completely as possible, indicate the questions of law which arise, show the law and precedents if any, on the points and urge why our client should have judgment entered in his favour.  The opposing counsel does the same, while trying to rebut the points we have taken.

    Of course it is important to articulate and to speak in such a manner as would not detract from its content – for example very few lawyers speak English (the official language of our High Court) like an Englishman and many of them speak with a decidedly Indian or Bengali accent but that does not prevent the Judges from understanding them; again, most lawyers in our High Court speak English indifferently, giving scant respect to the rules of grammar and syntax. Yet as long as the Hon’ble Judges understand them justice is usually done.  It is only when someone speaks in such an idiosyncratic manner that it becomes painful or amusing that the delivery starts to damage the content.

    Of course it does not hurt if you speak very well, but you should take care that your flight of oratory does not irritate or bore the Judge who after all has several cases to hear and dispose of, and so your oral submissions should not be so long-winded that they become repetitious or monotonous. I guess the golden mean would be to speak fluently, pleasantly and grammatically, if possible, without putting on any airs.

    Judges took kindly to any advocate who spoke sensibly, briefly and to the point in those days.  They still do.  Sometimes, when it has been a long day and the Court has been listening to similar type of cases all day long, it pays to enliven the tedium by digressing into literature, anecdote or even by presenting the facts of your case in a novel manner, which requires a degree of oratory. Normally the Judges welcome this from lawyers with some standing in Court but discourage it among juniors, since they are afraid that encouraging light-heartedness from those yet to earn their spurs could lead to facetiousness or flippancy, as one Hon’ble Judge (now retired) actually said to me.  It was a company case and my client, an intending auction purchaser, was seeking inspection of the assets of the company being wound up.  The Official Liquidator’s department, which had custody of the movables, was notorious in those days for carelessness and allowing pilferage.

    So, when His Lordship seemed inclined to refuse my prayer and asked me “But they are in the custody of the Court through the Official Liquidator, so why are you bothered?” and I responded with lightning speed, “But that is precisely the reason for my client’s apprehension, My Lord”.  For a moment the entire court was dumbstruck and then everyone broke out in laughter, including the Hon’ble Judge.

    However, in a moment His Lordship turned somber and menacing and said “This Court does not appreciate facetiousness from counsel”.  I was suitably abashed and tendered my apology.  I got the order I wanted after that.  The lesson to be drawn is that the Court understood what I said was perfectly correct and would have probably accepted it in that form if I had been a little more senior, but expected that a junior counsel would rephrase the submission.

    My experience in the first few sessions was ghastly.  The first time I spoke in Court, I choked up for a moment.  This was despite the fact that I had done a considerable amount of public speaking and the Presiding Judge was someone who had been affably chatting with me the evening before, at a soiree, where I had been mixing the music for the performers.  He was the guest of honour.  I ought not to have been afraid.

    Yet the atmosphere, the feeling of being in robes, stiff, wing collars, bands and with the Judges looking down upon you from a great height, the high ceilinged rooms, almost like cathedrals, these create an ambience that is intimidating, to say the least.  It got better after that, but even today, when I rise to speak for the first time in a case, I feel a familiar tingling in my palms, sweat on my brow and a slight trembling of the knees.

     

    How did you build up your client base?

    I do not have a client base.  I was briefed by learned advocates on record who had a client base.  These advocates on record briefed me because they liked the way I submitted in Court – effective but also cost effective because in those days the others who spoke like I did charged much more than I did.  In our Court there is an understandable but wholly erroneous impression that if you argue well you must also know how to draft well.

    So, I got drafting briefs.  I drafted very quickly, typing them myself, so the solicitors got their work on time without the trouble of stenographers delaying or making mistakes which were required to be corrected.  So they gave me a lot more drafting briefs.

    The more drafting I did I got better at it, until I became, in my estimation, a competent draftsman.  Once it was found that I could draft and speak, those who had briefed me once, continued to brief me.  Yes, many a time my eccentricities, moods and half crazy working style, my irregularity in Court drove my solicitors away.  It once got so bad, I had no case at all for a month, just a few months after my daughter had been born.  It was all savings for a few months.  Then for a few years I gave up private practice and was retained by the Government of West Bengal as its Standing Counsel.  I came back to private practice in March, 2014.  I again started getting briefed by a new generation of lawyers, who had seen me arguing for the government and had heard of me from their seniors.

    A firm clientele base is something that is very enviable and I do have a few clients who keep on coming back to me for everything – whether it is a draft, a conveyance, a case in Court or just an opinion.  These are usually clients who had some business related case where their learned advocate had briefed me once and by God’s Grace we had succeeded in it, and thereafter they insisted that I be briefed in everything that concerned them.

    This therefore is a result of results – in other words, if you work hard and your lay-client appreciates it, chances are that he will ask his learned advocate on record to go on briefing you.  There is, therefore, no hard and fast parameter of any number of years of practice for building up a client base – there is only work that you have do and give your best; my advice would be, forget about getting a client base, and do whatever work you get as well as you can.  The rest will follow.

     

    protik-banerjee4Did you build everlasting relation with your clients?

    Everlasting relation with my clients!  Are you mad!  If you build an everlasting relation with your clients, better make him your friend and do his work for free.  Why do you think a client does not usually do his case himself?  He knows the facts of his own case better than any lawyer ever can or would.  If he is educated and intelligent he can read the same cases and research the law on the internet.  Arguably, apart from intricacies of jurisprudence, he can put up as good a fight as any lawyer, yet he engages advocates.

    He does this because as a client he is indelibly imprinted with the justice of his own cause and try as he might, he always sees the facts from his own point of view and allows his emotions to cloud his perception about the facts or the defence of the other side.  A lawyer is trained to be dispassionate.  Of course he ought to believe in the merits of his client’s case, but that does not mean identifying with the client.  Yet, if you have an everlasting relation with your client (like a friend of the family so to speak) you lose that element of dispassionate analysis which alone sets you apart.  Besides, as they say in Hindi ‘ghoda ghaas se yaari karega to khayega kya?’

    It is possible for a counsel to build a long term relationship with his advocate on record but that is based on mutual respect and the results that each produce.  Personal friendship is a wholly different matter, and happens between and among people and not necessarily between lawyers and clients.

    I discourage personal relations with my clients.  Yet I treat each client in the same manner as I would treat any other person of his age.  I maintain a line, a very thin line yet a line nonetheless between them and myself.  That is the line which protects the dignity of the advocate from over-familiarity on the client’s part.  Take an example – imagine the same set of clients are briefing you over a period of years because you have worked hard for them in the past and produced results.  In time they have come to know of your daughter’s birthday, your birthday and your anniversary (because you politely declined to sit for a conference with them on those dates), your health and the plans for your vacation.

    So they bring you a cake for the birthday, an expensive sari and a suit-length for your anniversary and three air tickets, business class for your vacation.  You will be perfectly justified in accepting the first, demurring at the second but accepting them with a caveat that this should not be repeated and refusing the last.  If you do accept a gift, make sure that you present something in turn, as you would do in case of any other social occasion.  If they bring you gifts of rare alcohol, do not refuse them.

    Make sure that you send them something good that they appreciate. If they invite you to a wedding in their family, humbly accept the invitation, promise to turn up but do not – repeat, do not – make some excuse, send your juniors or even your most trusted junior along with gifts, but do not yourself accept such invitations.

    You may think that this will be impolite or even alienate your clients, but please remember, they do not fraternize with you or want to socialize with you because of your fascinating personality or your singing voice.  In the final analysis it is your talent and acumen as a lawyer they treasure, and so long as you have that and give every work they bring you the best that you can, they will gladly be with you forever.  They will ultimately end up respecting you for your principles.

    Do not even make the mistake of thinking, because of the above, that you are a service provider such as a driver or a milkman or a cook.  You do not serve your client, if you are a lawyer.  He does not even hire you.  He engages you by the hour or for particular assignments or work, for fees that he pays you or your learned advocate on record and he does it because you are a professional.  It is a profession as defined by the Hon’ble Supreme Court and it is not a part of any service industry.

    Even the government appreciates this distinction by leaving individual practitioners outside the dragnet of service tax.  It is the businessmen of law – the law firms – who render service.  Counsel and individual advocates do not.  We do our clients a favour by accepting their briefs.  The taxi-cab rule does not apply to us.  Come to think of it, the taxi-cab rules do not apply even to taxi-cabs in Calcutta.

    Being an advocate is a very heavy responsibility.  As you grow older you will appreciate it does not consist only of wearing a black coat and bands and doing “Judge Saab” like Sunny Deol in a Bollywood blockbuster or rushing to the police station with a bulging brief case to bail out your gangster client.  It requires a dedication to the rule of law, the ineffable yet ineradicable principles of justice and a commitment to the dignity of the most impartial wing of government, the last bastion of liberty and democracy in an age of increasing commercialism, capitalism and authoritarianism – to the judiciary which is forever a sentinel on the que vive.

     

    We have published the rest of the interview here: Protik Prokash Banerjee on dealing with success and challenges of a litigator, mettle of law students and opportunities at the Calcutta HC

  • Manoj Menon, Partner, Dua Associates, on skills which transform an associate to a partner

    Manoj Menon, Partner, Dua Associates, on skills which transform an associate to a partner

    Manoj Menon is a graduate from NLSIU, batch of 1996. He was recruited into a Chicago based firm called Arthur Andersen LLP considered as one of the ‘Big Five’ in Accounting after his graduation. Thereafter in 2004 he became a partner at Dua Associates. After working there for sometime he founded Tatva Legal along with some of his colleagues. In 2013, he moved back to Dua Associates.

    In this interview we speak to him about:

    • Working at an US based accounting firm
    • Becoming a partner of Dua Associates in a short time
    • What it takes to become a Partner from an Associate

    Tell us something about your life before law school.

    I grew up in Cochin and went to high school there. My father and my brother are doctors though I did have a couple of uncles who were practicing lawyers.

     

    The image of a lawyer back in ’91 was neither inspiring nor attractive for most students. What motivated you to choose law as a career?

    While I was growing up, we were made to believe that the only career options available were medicine or engineering. Law was something of a back-up option that you pursued if you did not make it to medical or engineering school! I was nudged into considering law as an option by my uncle who told me about National Law School. NLS was about three years old then and yet to have a graduating batch. It seemed like a good idea at that time and so I went with the flow.

     

    How important do you think mooting is for law students?

    While I wasn’t a mooter in NLS, in retrospect I think mooting can be very useful in helping you hone your research skills as well as to help you analyse issues in a manner you would be required to once you start practicing law. It also forces you to think on your feet and gives you a feel of what litigation could be all about.

     

    If you see that a person you are considering to hire is good at mooting, debating and has a few publications, does it influence your decision to some extent?

    It definitely does not hurt to have additional skill sets and these could be differentiators while evaluating two otherwise well matched candidates. However, I feel that work experience is the most important aspect of your resume and could be the difference between whether you are hired or not. Personally, it is very important that the person I am hiring fits in with the culture of the firm and sometime you have to go with your gut on that one!

     

    Now that you are on the other side of the table, what do you think a fresher should do in order to get hired?

    Andersen was one of the firms that recruited from campus. They had recruited from campus the previous year and so I had friends who had already spent time there and loved the place. Recruiters for Andersen looked beyond just grades and tried to gauge potential of the candidates through various rounds of interview and luckily for me, they saw something in me that they liked. I’m grateful for the opportunity to have worked in Andersen because of the amazing work culture and for the solid foundation that I believe it gave me.

     

    What would you say helped you join the ranks of a partner?

    A partner of a firm is someone who can add value to the firm and help grow the practice. Normally, it involves ability to execute work efficiently as well as to bring in new work. The firm gives you an opportunity to grow your own practice within the umbrella for the firm w ith minimal interference and this helped me grow as a lawyer and make the natural progression towards partnership.

     

    What kind of effort should a young associate put in to work to get it appreciated?

    What I look for in an associate is the willingness to learn and the desire to get better at what they are doing. If you have that, everything else falls into place. Taking responsibility is a huge part of the learning process and when you see that in an associate, you naturally end up pushing good work towards that person and relying on that person.

     

    What does a partner at a Law Firm like Dua Associates do?

    A partner typically starts and ends his day worrying about billing and recoveries! While there is no typical work day, the responsibility extends to sourcing work and ensuring that the work is executed effectively. Keeping your team happy or in the very least content, is the key to sleeping well at night!

     

    When you hire lawyers under you, what kind of skills and profile do you look for?

    Like I said, I look for someone who I feel can learn fast and who fits in with the ethos of the firm. More often than not, you get a feel of the person when you meet him/her and from there on you hope for the best! With working lawyers, work experience is a key factor. With fresh graduates, while internship experience matters, I basically look for a bright person who I feel can learn fast on the job.

     

    How important is it for a law firm partner to be good at business development, or are great lawyering skills enough to become a partner?

    Traditionally, a partner is expected to generate billings for the firm. However, firms adopt different models where certain partners could be rainmakers while others would concentrate more on servicing the work so generated. Partners could also concentrate on specific aspects such as business development or administration of the firm depending on the way a firm is structured. It is important to identify ones specific strengths and work in an organisation where such skill sets are considered relevant while evaluating eligibility for partnership.

     

    Dua Associates have offered internship opportunities to a lot of law students. What would you look for in a cover letter and a CV?

    We typically look for students doing their third year of law or more. While prior internship experience helps, an interest in a particular branch of law or some exposure to the same like attending seminars or publishing articles on the subject would be helpful.

     

    How do you think interns can get noticed in a positive way in the limited time they have?

    Unfortunately, interns are often plied with drudge work. However, if they take initiative and show an interest in taking on work, it surely helps.

     

    Do you think higher studies can be a necessity for a successful legal professional?

    While I don’t think that higher studies are an absolute necessity for a successful career, it makes for some great exposure which can add value to a professional. I believe it is a matter of personal choice but having said that, if you have the opportunity, I would definitely recommend that you grab it.

     

    How does one strike a work-life ba

    I believe how you manage your life is a matter of choice and once you figure out your priorities in life, you will find a way to maintain your work-life balance. An important aspect of the same would also be to work for an organisation which shares your values and which respects the fact that you are entitled to a personal life outside work.

     

    Lastly, what would be your message to law students and young lawyers who aspire to become a partner at a top-notch law firm?

    Be careful, what you wish for!

     

  • Murali Neelakantan, Global General Counsel, Cipla,  on work as a Senior Partner at Khaitan, being the first India educated Partner at a London Law Firm and charting out a successful legal career

    Murali Neelakantan, Global General Counsel, Cipla, on work as a Senior Partner at Khaitan, being the first India educated Partner at a London Law Firm and charting out a successful legal career

    Murali Neelakantan shared with us his insights and advice on mooting, skills of a lawyer and on being the current Global General Counsel of Cipla earlier in another interview on Murali Neelakantan on being Global General Counsel at Cipla, necessary skills of a lawyer, judging at Manfred Lachs & Jessup and importance of mooting.

    In this interview we speak to him about:

    • Being a Senior Partner at Khaitan
    • Being one of the first few India educated lawyers to have become a partner at a London law firm
    • Higher studies and the exposure one can get from them

     

    What does being a partner at a big law firm like KCo entail? What would a typical workday look like?

    A client sees a law firm partner as an experienced lawyer who can help it take key decisions, especially when there is no clear legal position and one needs to completely trust the judgment of an expert to predict the future. For example, when a client was considering investing in an Indian telecom company that had been granted 2G licenses, the key issue for me was the validity of the license – the only asset of the telecom company at the time of the investment.

    My view in 2008, based on my own research and due diligence, was that there was a major risk that the licenses could be cancelled and the client needed protection against this with a clear indemnity so that the full investment was refunded if the licenses were cancelled. As everyone knows today, the 2G licenses were subsequently cancelled by the Supreme Court, leaving the investors with no remedy.

    An English court recently held in the case of one of these investors that, the full amount of the investment ought to be refunded with interest. Many other investors in Indian companies whose licenses were cancelled have not been successful in claims against their Indian joint venture partners. Perhaps their lawyers did not see this risk or could not persuade the client to address the risk in this manner.

    A partner is also an owner of the law firm and is expected to take full responsibility for the firm’s success. Every firm is organised differently but, by and large, it is expected that every partner will look out for all the others and work towards making the firm successful and profitable. Often, partners have specific roles which suit their skills and interest. For example, one may be interested in HR matters like campus recruitment, another may take it upon himself to ensure training for all the lawyers, others may be focused on managing the firm’s relationships with professional networks like the IBA, IPBA, INTA, etc, and some others may focus on writing opinions so that there is one view across the firm on key contemporary issues.

    My work day begins quite early and by the time I get to the office, I have usually read all my email messages and planned my day. I try not to carry forward work to the next day. It would be difficult to generalise but a typical work day would include responding to client questions, reviewing and discussing drafts of various documents prepared by the team, reviewing articles or presentations that the team is preparing, every now and then, working on pitches to existing clients for new work or to prospective clients and lunch with fellow partners or clients. There is also work for the firm like the HR team meeting, preparation for internal and client training, creating of “know how” and mentoring junior lawyers. In addition to this since I was keen to judge a few moot courts every year, I would ensure that I had enough time in the day and on weekends to prepare thoroughly.

    During the Jessup season, from late November to March, preparation and marking memorials takes up most of my free time. That is also the cricket season and I try to play as many weekend games as I can. I try to leave the office at a reasonable hour so that I get some time at home before the family is asleep. However, I do ensure that I read all my emails before I go to bed, take stock of the day and think about what tomorrow’s plan will be. Unlike most people, I switch off my cell phone just before going to bed!

    How important is it for a law firm partner to be good at business development?

    Business development is a much maligned word. Those who “specialise in business development” will very quickly realise that clients don’t trust them. Clients want to meet lawyers who are able to help them with the law, not just glib talkers. So unless one has real knowledge of the law and the issues confronting the client’s industry sector, no amount of smooth talking or entertaining will be sustainable in attracting and keeping clients.

    Seeking out new clients is interesting but even those lawyers will need to spend most of their time working on legal issues with real clients, to have credibility during the pitch. Nothing impresses a client more than a lawyer who understands the clients’ industry sector and has a good knowledge of the solution for its issues. Obviously there will be some lawyers who prefer not to be involved in pitches but will be very effective in building relationships with existing clients and keeping them satisfied with excellent work. Rainmakers can make rain but that is just wasted water if no one is there to plant the seeds, tend to crops and harvest it in time. A good firm should have a diversity of partners with complementary skills and interests.

    It is almost impossible to have a clear list of qualities or criteria that separates partners from other lawyers who are not, but I have always felt that promotion to partnership, at least in the leading international law firms, is a signal that you have been accepted as a leader by your peers, ready to represent them all in public. I saw it as an achievement and an endorsement of my skills.

    What are the typical challenges you faced on your way to become a partner at Ashurst or at Arnold & Porter?

    It has been quite some time since I went to London and much has changed there since. So I am not really sure if my experiences are really relevant any more. There were many challenges but almost all of them can be traced to the fact that I didn’t either study or train there. Since I went there as a third year associate, I had no friends at the firm and the law school network didn’t exist in the days before Facebook. These days, law students get training contracts and have their seniors from the law school there to guide them through the system.

    When I landed in London, I hardly knew anyone there. Almost every little thing was a challenge. For example, since I didn’t have a credit history in the UK, it was difficult to rent an apartment or get a bank account or credit card. Unlike most of my peers who had a network of family and friends within and outside the firm, I had to find my way around.If there was a situation where one needed help on a tax issue, my peers would have a friend who they know from university or as fellow trainees in the tax team, who they could call. I wouldn’t even know where the tax lawyers in the firm were!

    Being a vegetarian teetotaller didn’t help with socialising in a country where the heart of the social scene was the pub. It was cricket that saved me. Simmons had a long tradition of supporting cricket, rugby, softball, netball and hockey and players of all abilities were warmly welcomed. There was always a very enjoyable dinner in the Long Room with an eminent cricketer as the speaker to kick off the cricket season. It was my opportunity to know people from all over the firm besides playing cricket which I loved, even though I was not very skilled. I also played for a team composed of lawyers in Barnes called the Nashers, after Malcolm Nash, whose claim to fame was that he was the bowler who was hit for 6 sixes in an over by Gary Sobers. I love the way the English are understated and don’t take themselves too seriously. Cricket was the highlight of the English summer for me and I miss it very much. Watching India play in England, battling the conditions at Nottingham and winning the Natwest trophy against all odds will always be a cherished memory.

    Building a practice, a euphemism for having a list of profitable clients who are loyal to you was, and still is, a key qualification for partnership. While I was working on English and international deals like many of my peers, one needed to find a niche. It was ironic, being a teetotaller, that many of the significant deals I did initially were for Interbrew, a family owned Belgian brewer which, over the years has become AmBev, the largest brewer in the world. Being one of the few Indian lawyers in an international law firm in London at a time when Indian companies were looking to expand in the UK and Europe and several international corporations were looking to establish themselves in India, was fortuitous. Simmons was always recognised as a great place to work, taking very good care of its people. Senior associates were trained for partnership over a few years so that they always knew what was expected of partners and were equipped for the role when elected. Jeremy Sivyer, a partner at Simmons and my mentor, encouraged me to use this opportunity to build a practice focused on India and Indian clients.

    During 2004 – 2005, I started receiving calls from headhunters for opportunities in other law firms who wanted to build an India focused practice. It was also a time that the US law firms were establishing themselves in London and there were some clients who preferred to have one firm for both English and US law matters. Simmons had a joint venture with Fried Frank for some time but when that ended, there was a risk that corporate and capital markets work that had a US element would be out of reach for me at Simmons.

    At that time, I met Ian Kirby, a partner at Arnold & Porter who charmed me into accepting equity partnership at Arnold & Porter. Arnold & Porter is one of the great American institutions – a firm that was well known for its diversity, strong views on civil liberties, emphasis on pro bono and like Simmons, a reputation for being one of the great places to work. It was an opportunity to test if I had indeed built a practice! I resigned from Simmons on the day of the London bomb blasts and started work at Arnold & Porter the following Monday.

    No one I know who worked at Arnold & Porter has anything but nice things to say about it. It may never be the most profitable law firm but it is, as someone described it, a collection of the brightest stars in the night sky. It has always had some of the most eminent lawyers as partners, those who are universally acknowledged by clients and peers as the best in their field of specialisation but who worked in the most collegiate manner. It was an honour to work with many of them and I, like many of their other alumni, always look out for opportunities to work with lawyers at both these firms.

    What prompted the shift to Simmons & Simmons from Nishith Desai Associates?

    I joined Nishith Desai soon after I graduated. I had interned there in my final year and Nishith was extremely kind to me. In fact, after my internship in February 1996, I spent many weekends in Bombay during my final trimester working with him. He has said very often that my first day at work with him was on his annual trip to the US visiting clients and law firms. Nishith was keen, with almost a childlike enthusiasm, to always learn something new. At the time, his was a very niche practice in a small office in Nariman Point. The global reputation that he enjoyed for his international tax expertise was exceptional. Almost all the tax law that I know, I learnt from him but he encouraged me to find my own niche.

    It was a time when technology companies were just breaking out and I had the opportunity to work on the Indian aspects of a NASDAQ listing of an IT company called IMR Global. With that experience, I pitched to Infosys to list on NASDAQ. I guess they were surprised that an Indian law firm had thought of it and knew how to do it. It was the last deal I did in India before I left for the UK. There was quite a buzz about all aspects of the technology wave including broadcasting with significant uncertainty on legal issues. Investing in research meant that I was able to work with Zee TV, Usaha Tegas and Panamsat as clients.

    The other sector that was beginning to look promising was infrastructure. With the personal goodwill that Nishith enjoyed, I managed to work on deals in this sector. While all the other law firms were already advising on several power and road projects, we managed to get on to the Birla AT&T financing, a small role advising SBI. No one in the firm knew exactly how to do it because a non recourse financing for a telco had never been done but between two young associates, we got it done.

    Another example was the opportunity to work on the first common carrier oil pipeline project for Petronet, which had just been established. There was no concept in India of a pipeline being a common carrier and it was the extensive research of the commercial and regulatory models for pipelines around the world, with the CFO of Petronet, Sidharath Kapur, currently the CFO of GMR, that helped us put together a bankable set of documents for Petronet.

    Similarly, someone I knew in Bangalore told me about an elevated light rail project that was being conceived by the state government. There seemed to be constitutional issues since railways was a Union subject in the Constitution. My research found a way out of it and we decided to pitch the idea of a new enabling legislation for the government of Karnataka. Since we didn’t really know all the aspects of the system, we looked for expertise overseas. Simmons & Simmons had been advising Railtrack in the UK for many years and also on railway projects in other countries and they were keen to work with us on this opportunity. Two of the Simmons partners who worked with us were Jeremy Sivyer and Colin Leaver who were keen on building the Simmons brand in India. It was Jeremy who, after working with me for a few months, asked if I had considered working at an international law firm in London. One thing led to another and I eventually joined Simmons in 1999.

    murali-n5

    What strategies should an Indian law student adopt if they want to work at a London law firm?

    Since international law firms are recruiting directly from campus and also offering internship and training contracts, I would think getting an LLM from the country one wishes to practice in is the best opportunity for lawyers who are interested in practicing law overseas. This opportunity did not exist when I graduated from law school. It has now become very difficult to move to an international law firm, as I did, after a few years of working in India. Similarly, very few of those who have gone overseas recently to study for an LL.M have been able to find jobs in international law firms. It therefore seems to me that a foreign LL.M is unlikely to be valuable to either an international law firm or an Indian law firm.

    Does Cipla offer internship opportunity to law students?

    Cipla has not had interns from law schools but it is something that we are considering. The qualities that I expect to see in an intern are exactly what I would like to see in a law graduate. Obviously the interns will have had fewer opportunities but it is possible to demonstrate those qualities in the first three years of law school.

    How do you think interns can get noticed in a positive way in the limited time they have?

    All interns have to do is exhibit the qualities that we expect them to showcase. A keen intern who does all the work given enthusiastically, looks out for opportunities to exhibit personality and skills will definitely get noticed. There is always work for those who do a good job and every employer is looking at interns as potential hires and internships as the opportunity to observe and evaluate them. We have nothing to gain from disappointing or ignoring interns.

    Do you think higher studies are a necessity for a successful legal professional?

    There are certain career paths that require specialised knowledge and it would definitely be helpful to pursue further education. Many alumni have careers in the UN and other international organisations. Those at the UNHCR would have benefited from a thorough knowledge of refugee law, for example. However, I am not sure if there is great value in an LL.M if one is likely to be back in India to be a litigator. This is really a question to ask from the many lawyers who have studied overseas. What studying and living overseas does, is make one aware that there is definitely more than one way of doing almost everything and one should not take anything for granted. That perspective is of some value but is perhaps not valued much by Indian employers currently.

    How do you maintain work-life balance?

    All organisations have their own culture and it is really for the interns to research, experience and understand this for themselves. There will be trade-offs to be made since no place of employment is perfect in all respects. No one who has worked with me has complained about lacking a work life balance. Since I have never found it to be an issue for me, I can only hypothesise that there is a mismatch in the expectations of the students and reality. I am surprised to hear this since all of them have the opportunity to see it for themselves during internships. The initial years of work will not be hard for those who, through law school, have been working in a disciplined manner on multiple tasks to tight deadlines.

    My own view is that young lawyers don’t invest in themselves by working on building expertise and personality. There comes a point very quickly in a lawyer’s career when one should know the law in their area of specialisation but those who delegate research to interns and due diligence to their juniors will find that their foundation is unstable.

    One will be successful only if one can work with colleagues and clients and that is based less on expertise in law, which many lawyers will be expected to have, but more on one’s personality. A passion, even unrelated to the law, is essential to stand out. I know clients who are fanatical about movies and a lawyer who shares that passion would find it easier to relate to such a client. Legal service is not a product where one can easily demonstrate relative superiority over competition. To be appreciated for the work that one does, being liked by the client and having a personal relationship is critical.

    Lastly, what would be your message to an Indian student pursuing a law degree?

    Law can be an avenue to pursue any passion that one has. If one is interested in cricket, I would think that if one cannot play the IPL, the next best thing would be to be a lawyer who represents the players, teams, sponsors, organisers, etc. Similarly, if one was passionate about music but will not make it as a professional musician, there is a great opportunity to work with the music industry. The list of opportunities for a law student is almost endless. I hope each of them finds their passion and is able to pursue it through a career in the law.

     

  • Sunil Agarwal, Senior Tax Partner, AZB, on tax litigation, and work as Income Tax Commissioner

    Sunil Agarwal, Senior Tax Partner, AZB, on tax litigation, and work as Income Tax Commissioner

    Mr. Sunil Agrawal graduated in law from the University of Ahmedabad. Prior to that, he had also successfully completed his Bachelor’s in Science and MBBS. He has worked with the Indian Revenue Services for over twenty years as Additional Commissioner of Income Tax. He is currently Senior Taxation Partner at AZB & Partners.

    In this interview we speak to him about:

    • Working with the Government of India
    • Work at the Income Tax Simplification Committee
    • Retiring as an Additional Commissioner of Income Tax and joining AZB as a partner

    When and why did you decide to study law?

    It was in 1995–while working as an Investigating Officer in the Indian Revenue Service, my boss all of a sudden directed me to argue the case which I had myself decided as an investigating officer before the Income Tax Appellate Tribunal (ITAT) for and on behalf of the Income Tax Department. I had no prior experience of arguing a case. The hearing of this case continued for about a week. Opposite to me was a senior advocate Mr. Dinesh Vyas, reputed to be the best tax counsel in India at that point of time. I succeeded. After the judgment, he encouraged me to take up the role of an arguing counsel, rather than continuing in the government service. At that point of time, I decided to complete my law degree.

     

    What are the competitive exams you have taken?

    I have taken the following competitive exams:

    Combined Pre-Medical Test (CPMT) in Uttar Pradesh – scored 5th rank in Uttar Pradesh and 2nd in Agra (my home-town). Although I ranked 4th in my university, after completing my MBBS, I did not pursue medicine as a career, I thought that I could better serve the nation while being in public services.

    Bank Probationary Officers Exam – I worked in Punjab National Bank as a Branch Manager (while still a probationer). It was a very satisfying experience of having the good fortune of understanding the working of and managing a branch of a leading public sector bank. It was even more satisfying because this was where I substantially improved loan recovery rates for priority sector loans, in less than one year.

    UPSC Exam (civil services) – UPSC civil services exam is known to be the toughest competitive examination in the world (so recognized by the Guinness Book of Records).

    The scope of studies is extremely wide – it goes without saying that one has to study in a meaningful and sincere manner for at least thirteen to fourteen hours a day at least for a year, if not more, to stand a chance of success in the exam.
    sunil-a1

    Has your study of medicine and your experience as a banker helped you as a lawyer?

    Emphatically yes. Any science-related subject, medicine being no exception, forces a student to be analytical and logical. These qualities, if inculcated can help an individual in any vocation or profession he or she might undertake. In fact, I have used this knowledge in my public service career and in professional career, wherever I found it to be necessary. This knowledge has been very helpful.

     

    In what capacities have you worked with the government?

    I have worked in the following areas of Income Tax Department:

    • Investigation
    • Corporate Assessments
    • International Taxation
    • Arguing counsel before the Income Tax Appellate Tribunal (ITAT) and
    • Authority of Advanced Rulings (AAR).

     

    How has this experience contributed to your present stint in a law firm?

    Working with the Income Tax Department has provided me the width and depth on the subject which I cherish. It is very difficult to acquire comparable exposure while working in the private sector alone.

     

    How was your experience working with the Income Tax Simplification Committee?

    It was an extremely rewarding experience. I was one of the members of this Select Committee. The mandate to this committee was to simplify the Income Tax Act, 1961, rather than to modify it.

    When I was a Joint Commissioner of Income Tax in charge of corporate assessments, I had found some lacunae in the Law which were being exploited by the companies, at the time making assessments of large corporate groups. With the objective of plugging these loopholes, I had proposed amendments to the provisions of the Income Tax Act and given the draft of the proposed amendments with case studies to demonstrate how the loopholes were being exploited. It has been fortunate that such amendment proposals were approved by Ministry of Finance/ Ministry of Law, Govt. of India. I am happy to share that the proposed amendments became a part of Income Tax Act, 1961 which are still in force.

    The suggested amendments to certain provisions of the Income Tax Act which were prone to blatant misuse and perhaps my prior experience in writing articles in professional tax journals, such as Income Tax Reports (ITR), Taxmann, experience of having argued against almost all leading tax advocates, etc. probably contributed towards my appointment.

     

    How was the experience of working with an industry body such as CII?

    Working with an industry body on tax issues of common interest is a very rewarding experience, since we were trying to arrive at workable solutions to the problems of several relevant stakeholders.

     

    Can you share any memorable or interesting experiences in your stint as a senior government counsel at ITAT?

    On a lighter vein, I was probably the first government counsel arguing in the ITAT who used a laptop to access and update a self maintained database of cases and precedents.

    At that time it was perceived as a threat by some of the most reputed opposing counsels! I had prepared on my own a section-wise database using major authorities from Supreme Court and High Courts and ITAT which I used to refer while citing support for a proposition I was arguing. This was done out of necessity and innovation. As government counsel, I did not have the necessary infrastructure to provide four copies of every judgment which was cited before the bench.

     

    Which part of your experience with the government has turned out to be most relevant in your present stint as a law firm partner?

    Looking down the memory lane, it would not be possible to pinpoint any particular aspect of my experience with the government which can be singled out as most relevant. In fact, it is the overall cumulative experience of having served the government in various capacities, whether as an investigating officer, assessing officer or a departmental representative before the ITAT or AAR which has given me the exposure that one cannot gain otherwise.

     

    Can you explain how life as a civil servant or as a government counsel compares with life at a law firm?

    If somebody is sincere, diligent, competent and honest to the job on hand I do not see any difference between my role, whether in government or as a law firm partner today.

     

    Can you tell us about your time at AZB?

    I am fortunate that I continue to handle variety of matters which I was used to handling in the government even after switching over to the law firm.

    Working as a law firm partner, I have had more opportunities to acquire experience on the other side of the table, which I cherish.

     

    According to you role of a senior counsel and a law firm partner in a complex litigation?

    A law firm partner typically has the advantage of knowing the facts of his client’s case extremely well. On top of it, if he or she has additional litigation experience, the quality of the briefing to the senior counsel goes several notches up. This, in a sense, acts as a catalyst for the senior counsel so that the senior counsel is able to prepare himself better. The result is that the senior counsel does better in the court and accordingly the prospects of the client obtaining a better outcome in the litigation significantly improve.

     

    Why did you decide to migrate to a law firm after government service?

    Government of India recruits the best brains in the country through the world’s toughest competitive examination, but it is an irony of fate that the government is not able to retain some of the talent it has already recruited. I think the reasons are too well-known to be spelt out in detail here. I was no exception to this irony.

     

    Is joining civil services a promising career option?

    I would say here we are dealing with the issue of identity crisis. It is better if the youth is able to identify at quite an early stage of career what are their natural inclinations and propensities. Working through those natural gifts is the best way of realizing or unlocking one’s potential. So long as job or career switchover is in furtherance of this objective, perhaps no question should arise on the motive behind the switchover. I would not like to comment on the situation wherein the job switchover is inconsistent with this philosophy.

     

  • Murali Neelakantan, Global General Counsel, Cipla, on being a first generation lawyer, mooting, and his diverse experience

    Murali Neelakantan, Global General Counsel, Cipla, on being a first generation lawyer, mooting, and his diverse experience

    murali-n3Murali Neelakantan is a graduate of NLSIU, batch of 1996. He was one of the first India educated Lawyers to have become a partner in an English law firm. Murali had worked as a Senior Partner at Khaitan before joining Cipla as a Global General Counsel. At Cipla he imparts leadership training and his work entails solving critical problems in times of conflicts. Murali has also been mentioned in the Who’s Who of the World 2004 – 2009.

    Murali had a lot of interest in moots while he was a student at NLSIU and presently he takes time out to judge prestigious moots like Manfred Lachs and Phillip C Jessup.

    In this interview you will get to read what he has to say about:

    • Being the first Jessup team from India and winning the BCI moot
    • Judging Manfred Lachs and the critical elements of a mooter.
    • Being a Global General Counsel of Cipla

     

    We have more advanced career insights to share from him in the next interview.

     

    Tell us a bit about your life before college.

    There were no lawyers in the immediate family and the whole family had very mixed feelings about a career in the law. They obviously knew of the legends like Nani Palkhiwala, Ram Jethmalani, Soli Sorabjee, and K. K. Venugopal but also of the many lawyers loitering around the city civil courts. My father was an engineer and others in the family were civil servants or officers in the armed forces. My parents would very much have liked me to have become an engineer or joined the armed services.

     

    The image of a lawyer back in the ’90s was neither inspiring nor attractive for most students. What motivated you to choose law as a career?

    I had given up on a career in medicine after Class X and studied Physics, Chemistry, Math & Electronics during Class XI and XII. Those were the days when reservations of seats in academic institutions were at their very peak and very few places were available in the leading medical and engineering colleges in the merit category even though I scored reasonably well in the Common Entrance Test. I took keen interest in the Armoured Squadron of the NCC for three years where I was quickly promoted and also won medals. It was really the first opportunity for me to demonstrate leadership and a career in the armed forces was definitely on the radar.

    The National Law School had been in the news since 1988 and I had been impressed by a few of its students at the inter college festivals where I was a regular. There were also a couple of kids from my neighbourhood in Bangalore who had joined NLS before me. There was quite some buzz created by the vision that the government had for the National Law School to be like the IIMs and IITs. A few lawyers that my family knew felt that if one was keen to study law, NLS was a good idea. I was a good public speaker, a logical thinker who liked reading and writing and that, at the time, seemed good enough for a career in the law. So despite opposition from the family, I wrote the entrance exam and got through. It was also very much cheaper to study law than either engineering or medicine.

     

    murali-n2How did you get into mooting?

    (Mr. Murali represented India at Jessup and had also won the BCI Moot Court Competition.)

    The extra-curricular activities that interested me in the first two years were volleyball, cricket and athletics. I discovered very quickly that merely being a sportsman really didn’t get the attention of the girls. My experience of moot courts began in my second year where I helped my classmates win the inter class moot court competition. It was not until the third year at the insistence of one of my closest friends and senior at NLSIU, Dayan Krishnan, now Senior Advocate who was a very keen mooter that I really began participating in the university selection rounds. There were really only about seven moot courts and it was an honour to represent the university at a moot court competition. I came fourth in the first of three selection rounds and that was really the encouragement I need to take this on. At the end of the selection rounds, I got the opportunity to represent India with Sandeep Farias and Sanjoy Ghose at Jessup. That was really my first competitive moot court! The next moot court for me was the Bar Council moot court which was the toughest moot court at the time and was therefore the most prestigious national moot court.

    When we got back from Jessup we realised how far behind the world we were in terms of support for moot courts. Sandeep Farias and I started the first novices moot where those who didn’t want to moot competitively got the opportunity to try it out in camera. This student initiative continues to be popular even though there are many moot court competitions and everyone who wants to participate gets the opportunity very easily.

    I would encourage every law student to moot as often as they can. The most important lesson it teaches is that there are two equally true sides to every story and clients don’t come to lawyers with facts that will guarantee a win. Research is critical to success in a moot court and while it is easier to search these days, one is unlikely to find a decision of the Supreme Court that fits the facts before you perfectly. Formulating the key legal propositions and finding support for them is a skill that is indispensable to every lawyer. Finally, mooting is about persuasion. The days when one wins by confusing the judge are few and far between. One needs to be articulate to be persuasive. This is a skill that is used both inside and outside the court room. In a court room, one has the benefit of a neutral judge. In a negotiation, one is up against another lawyer who is naturally inclined to disagree with you. It is here that the powers of persuasion are tested most. Articulate and persuasive lawyers also put these skills to use while advising a client on a course of action when a client may have an incentive to take an alternative course.

     

    If you see that a person you are considering hiring is good at mooting, does this influence your decision?

    While I look at grades closely and usually have a CGPA cut-off, I also consider all the extra-curricular activities that interested a potential hire. I would definitely interview a student who won moot courts, played team sport, published a paper or had been committed to IDIA (Increasing Diversity by Increasing Access), even if the CGPA was below the cut off for interviews.

     

    As a judge what are the specific skills you look for among the mooters?

    1. Clear legal propositions fully backed up with authority and the ability to anticipate the propositions and authorities of the opponent. Most of this is easily done with thorough research and attention to detail. I expect the participants to know more than the judges.
    2. Clear articulation that persuades me that no one could have argued this case better is perhaps the best description of the winning team. Preparation is the key here so that there are no surprises. If one does find a judge taking an unexpected view, it is an opportunity to demonstrate the breadth of one’s knowledge of the law and facts and quick thinking.
    3. A good sense of humour makes it easier for an advocate to make a connection with the judges; bad timing or poor taste could ruin it though. Quickly evaluating the bench is therefore a key skill. That will tell you what the winning strategy is, how to articulate a proposition so that it rings true to the judges, which authorities are likely to have an impact or when not to press on an issue even if you think you have a good argument.
    4. I have seen students treating moot courts like an elocution contest, reciting to me their memorial. That perhaps works if the judges do not interrupt the speech and I know many judges who will not allow the monologue to last for more than a few minutes. If moot courts are opportunities to prepare for a life in the law, the ability to recite 20 pages of the memorial is not the most valuable skill.

     

    If someone does not go to a top law school, would you say he still has a shot at a great career in law, at the top of the practice?

    Like any other profession, a good education, by which one assumes graduating from a leading academic institution, is merely a good starting point to launch one’s career. It is not necessary for success as a lawyer to have graduated from the leading law schools in the same way as those who did not graduate from one of the top IITs can, and have, succeeded as engineers.

    It is a myth that the top law schools have the monopoly over excellent faculty or infrastructure. With technology that is widely available these days, I believe that the playing field has been levelled and students from every law school have a fair chance at being the best. No judge in a moot court knows which university a student represents. Quality of the memorial and the arguments are the only two qualities that are evaluated. I would find it difficult to ignore a student who did well at Jessup, Manfred Lachs, Stetson or Willem C. Vis. Similarly publication of research papers is another opportunity to demonstrate ones abilities. When I went to London in 1999, almost no one there had heard of the National Law School and it gave me no advantage at all over my Oxbridge educated peers.

     

    What does a general counsel at an MNC like Cipla do?

    The role of a Global General Counsel does not exist in all companies and even in those companies who have it, the roles are not defined uniformly. It all depends on how the company sees the legal function and the organisation structure. Cipla’s legal team is really led by the Chief Legal Officer who manages all the lawyers around the world. I am merely the coach of the legal team and a resource that they can use where there is a critical judgment to be made on conflicting courses of action.

    My main function is to be counsel to the CEO and the management team so that they have someone who can identify, allocate and mitigate enterprise risk in the decisions that are being taken.

    For example, strategic decisions like whether we invest in vertical integration or have long term supplier arrangements.

     

    When you hire lawyers, what kind of skills and profile do you look for?

    Unless one is a sole practitioner, the practice of law is about teamwork. One can learn the law but it is very difficult to change people’s character and personality. The critical quality for me is happiness. I will just not hire a person who I feel is not happy. Energy and enthusiasm are essential for a team to work well. Good grades tell me that the person has been hard working and diligent through law school. Many of the subjects may not be fun but knowing that it has to be done well is a good lesson to be learnt in law school. Most of the work we do will not be interesting every day and I would like to be sure that every person in the team will do it well even if it is not fun. We are presented opportunities to learn everyday and that’s a habit best learnt in law school. Participation in moot courts and team sports, for example, tells me that the person knows what one needs to do to succeed, has seized the opportunities presented to them, works well in a team, is well organised, takes risks but also knows how to prioritise and make good choices.

     

    We have published the rest of the interview here.

  • Jaiveer Shergill on being a spokesperson for INC, career in politics and practice as an SC Advocate

    Jaiveer Shergill on being a spokesperson for INC, career in politics and practice as an SC Advocate

    jayveer-shergill1Jaiveer Shergill graduated from WBNUJS, Kolkata in 2006. Thereafter he worked as an associate for Economic Laws Practice, in their Corporate Commercial/Indirect Tax Team in Delhi for some time.

    In June, ’12 he made his entry into Politics by joining Indian National Congress and then he was appointed as a spokesperson in January, ’14. He has been the India Representative of Young Lawyers Committee at International Bar Association and presently, he is working as an independent practitioner in Supreme Court of India.

    We asked him a few questions about:

    • Choosing a specific arena and establishing a legal career
    • Being an independent practitioner at Supreme Court
    • Career options for a lawyer in politics
    • and many other questions relevant to a successful legal career

     

    How should a student structure his internship during law school?

     

    How to make a conscious career choice – corporate vs. litigation?

     

    Who are going to be the best teachers in a law firm?

     

    How far is theoretical knowledge in law schools consistent with the practical arena?

     

    Which forum will give the best exposure? What are most important skills required for subsistence?

     

    When is the right time to decide whether to become drafter or pleader?

     

    What can you expect to learn from a senior counsel?

     

    When is the right time to consider practicing independently?

     

    What does going independent really entail?

     

    How do you measure success? What should be the milestones?

     

    What are the paybacks of practicing independently?

     

    Should you choose what kind of matters to take between civil and criminal?

     

    What are the career options for lawyers in politics?

     

    What are the options in corporate transactions? Is seat-hopping more beneficial in litigation or corporate?

  • Susieben Shah, Founder, Priyadarshini Taxi Services, on being an activist, author and social enterpreneur

    Susieben Shah, Founder, Priyadarshini Taxi Services, on being an activist, author and social enterpreneur

    Susieben Shah pursued her majors in Economics from Sophia College and obtained her degree in Law from GLC, Mumbai, which she followed up with work as an advocate in the Mumbai High Court. She veered towards social work and activism subsequently, focusing on women’s rights and enabling access to justice for women. She has authored books on the subject and has provided opportunities for gainful and ethical employment of women across service sectors.

    In this interview we speak to her about:

    • Her inspiration to pursue law and her time in the Bombay High Court
    • Her views on the current state of women in the country and the changes that need to be brought
    • How she manages her various roles as activist, author and social entrepreneur

     

    How would you like to introduce yourself to our readers who are young lawyers and law students?

    I would like to be known as a woman committed to women’s empowerment, with special  focus on economic empowerment of women, a social and political activist, not a hardcore feminist but certainly a woman who celebrates womanhood.

     

    What made you pursue Law from GLC, Mumbai, after your Economics major? How was your experience practicing at Bombay High Court?

    From the very beginning, my father, Shri B.A. Desai, a Senior Advocate and until recently the Additional Solicitor General of India, was a source of inspiration who continues to be my mentor and guide. As a college going young woman I have seen him passionately arguing in the High Court and Supreme Court. Since then, my mind was made to be a lawyer. He was the reason that I decided to join the legal profession.  I did my B.A with major in Economics from Sophia College, an all women’s institution, but we had a great time, created a strong bond and are still friends with most of my colleges colleagues.
    Life in, Sophia college was, in short, was serious studies coupled with fun and frolic. I did my law  from Govt. Law College, Mumbai. In the Government Law College the curriculum was interesting and interactive. I enjoyed participating in moot courts and from my last year I started my Articleship. It was always my desire to pursue Counsel Practice.

    During early days of my counsel practice, I was also assigned to be a Commissioner to record evidence, of a witness who could not attend High Court. As I mentioned earlier my father is a Senior Advocate of the Supreme Court and a Counsel of repute, his pleadings across the Bar inspired me and hence I made a foray into legal practice.

     

    SusiebenWhat do you think about the current situation on awareness of law, for the common man? How do you think the situation can be improved?

    I believe information is the gateway to knowledge. Unfortunately despite various women friendly legislations enacted by the Government of UPA 1 and UPA 2 the women of India across social and economic backgrounds are not aware of their rights accorded to them in the constitution. With that in mind, I penned the book Legal Awareness amongst Women and published it in four languages. I have once again started writing a book on the latest amendments thereon, focusing on the Criminal Amendment Act and Prevention of Sexual Harassment at the Workplace, which has just been enacted by UPA Government, to protect the safety and dignity of women. It is going to be my sincere effort that these books are available at every bus-stop, railway station and all public places for women to read and make themselves aware of their rights, because it is only when you know your rights, can you enforce them.

     

    Can you tell our reader about the other initiatives you’ve undertaken?

    (Susieben has actively participated in and organized a number of political and social-community events, such as Priyadarshini Taxi Services, Rakhis for Jawans and Marathons for causes.)

    Priyadarshini Taxi Service was conceptualized and implemented a novel and unique concept by me with a view to economically empower women. It has been very satisfying and exciting journey so far which has been appreciated by one and all.  Rakhis for Jawans was our gratitude towards the war heroes of Kargil on the occasion of the 10th Anniversary of Kargil War. It was our effort to express gratitude towards our brothers in the army.

    The 10km Environment Run was organized to celebrate the 25 years of Priyadarshini Park & Sports Complex, a 22-acre sports complex and community center, of which I am the General Secretary. To know more about the Priyadarshini Park & Sports Complex, kindly visit www.priyadarshinipark.org

     

    How supportive have your family and friends been towards all this?

    I have always been committed to the economic and social empowerment women and the aam aadmi. I was greatly inspired by the leadership of Smt. Indira Gandhiji, the Iron Lady of the millennium. I must mention that in all my social and  political  endeavors, my family, and specially my husband Mr. Vidyut Shah, who himself is a first generation successful industrialist,  has supported  and guided me in in ever way possible.  He has been my strength and guiding force. I would also like to stress here that for a woman to succeed it would be necessary for the family to support and the men in their lives to support them. It is not that women cannot do it alone – but certainly she can do better with the support of her family and near and dear ones.

     

    What has been the biggest challenge that you have faced, and how did you overcome that?

    The biggest challenge that I faced was the implementation of Priyadarshini Taxi Service from the Domestic Airport. I had to wage a war with the unions and other vested interests to start our operation under the pre-paid category despite a government notification in our favour. I had to move the Mumbai High Court to have it implemented. The only way to succeed in this man’s world is to believe in yourself, your endeavors and believe that the mission that you sought out to accomplish has to succeed against all odds. In short women entrepreneur has to have a ‘never say die’ attitude.

    For more information on all my endeavours kindly visit www.susiebenshah.in and www.priyadarshinitaxi.com.

     

    Where do you see yourself in the next five years, and what are the changes you expect to bring about in society till then?

    In the coming five years, I certainly see myself entrenching  in  the political process, of nation building under the leadership of Shri Rahul Gandhi and Shri Milind Deora, M.P. from South Mumbai. I am a firm believer that for us to bring about the change the political system, to weed out the evils of corruption, red-tapism, we have to plunge ourselves in the political process, else you would remain in the periphery and your ideas and aspirations would not go past the drawing board. As Mahatma Gandhi always said, you must be the change that you want to see in the world”.

     

    We wish you all the very best in your endeavors. What is your message for the youth of the country?

    Let us all together, take concrete steps, in whichever field we are involved, in your own humble manner,  for the upliftment and development of India. Let us also vow and pledge for the safety, security and dignity for the women of India.

  • Dr. D. Dhanuraj, Chairman, Center for Public Policy Research, Kerala, on cross disciplinary studies, alternate career options for law graduates & starting your own Public Policy Think tank

    Dr. D. Dhanuraj, Chairman, Center for Public Policy Research, Kerala, on cross disciplinary studies, alternate career options for law graduates & starting your own Public Policy Think tank

    Dr. D. Dhanuraj is a policy researcher and entrepreneur who is currently the Chairman of the Centre for Public Policy Research at Cochin, Kerala. He holds a Ph.D in Science & Humanities from Anna Univserity, Chennai. Dr. Dhanuraj started his career as a Research Associate in 2003. Over the years, he was promoted to Research Team Lead and Research Fellow. He has handled various social research projects and has extensively traveled across the country to manage projects of various kinds. He works in the fields of urbanisation, education, health, livelihood and law. He has worked with different state governments and international and national NGOs and corporate houses

     In this interview we speak to him about:
    • His experience in pursuing academia across the sciences and humanities.
    • His training as a Research Associate.
    • Consultancy work, think tanks and his experience in starting his very own public policy think tank.

     

    Most of our readers are law students and young lawyers. How will you introduce yourself to them?

    I am a policy researcher and entrepreneur who believes in the power of innovation and knowledge dissemination. I chair Centre for Public Policy Research (CPPR), a policy Think Tank operating from Cochin, Kerala. I strongly believe in popularizing Research & Development labs of public policy among the general public.

     

    You have a Masters in P hysics and Political Science, a Diploma in International Business and a Doctorate in Philosophy. Tell us about your journey through the various universities and training experiences in India and abroad.

    I was a young fellow in the Indian Institute of Science from 1997 to 2000. The exposure and interactions in IISc had a tremendous influence on my career. After completing my Masters in Physics, I opted for an IT job. After spending eight months in that company, I resigned and took admission in the Madras Christian College to pursue an M.A. in Political Science, as I felt I could contribute more to social development outside the glass cabins. Right from my IISc days, I started understanding political systems and how decisions taken by the Government impact millions. At times, I used to wonder how they arrived at these decisions and who took such decisions. Then I understood the fallacy of democratic processes in India and how non-representative the system was. These thoughts encouraged me to inspire a motivated group of my friends from college to set up CPPR in 2004. Subsequently, all of our efforts were dedicated to understanding how the Governance system worked and how public policies were deliberated, debated and delineated in this country. We had the opportunity to travel across India and abroad and undergo training provided by experts in the field. In India, we collaborated with leading Think Tanks while in the USA and Germany, I was trained in think tank management and public policy discourse. Such experiences gave us more exposure and opened our eyes to reality. Of course, having an academic background of interdisciplinary learning at different places helped a lot in understanding the real time issues of the public around. It helped in analysing theories and identifying philosophies with practitioners. It has also helped to build better research methodologies.

     

    One of your early experiences includes working at the Center for Civil Society for a year, as a Research Associate. What was that like?

    CCS helped a lot in the beginning of my career. They were very flexible in the work arrangement. We were given a lot of space to exercise our own discretion and work however we felt comfortable. I worked as a research associate for about eighteen months and traveled across the country extensively.  In the beginning, we planned a working paper series on the ‘Community Management of Natural Resources’. The highlights were the Study on the Olavanna Water Distribution model, a study on community management of fishery resources in Pulicat lake, etc. I have also dealt with subjects like Forestry Management, Uneconomic Schools of Kerala, 1957 Education Bill of Kerala, etc. Overall, it helped me to understand the philosophy of policy making, how to conduct policy research, how to interact with Government institutions, etc. These were very important lessons at the outset of a career in policy research.

     

    The Center for Public Policy Research (CPPR) was formed in 2004 by individuals who believed in the Freedom of Expression, Rule of Law and Right to Livelihood. Tell us something about the nature of your work, the kind of people you came across, etc.

    Our group was passionate about research and how it could influence public policy making. It was in this back ground that we set up CPPR in 2004. At the same time, we believed that decent careers were possible for researchers. By conducting research, researchers not only contribute to academics but also help and facilitate communities solving the issues and problems they face. The ability and skill to understand the world around you is a crucial parameter for a successful researcher cum public policy expert in this domain. We do carry out research, conduct surveys, publish papers, and write articles, host seminars and workshops. We have worked for different Government departments and institutions, academic institutions, civil society organizations, corporate houses etc. in the last nine years. I had the opportunity to work with a wide spectrum of personnel starting right from homeless people on the streets to the ministers in the cabinet.

     

    It is a position that carries tremendous responsibility and requires a lot of effort. What are the major challenges that you have faced at work? Have there been any hindrances in work by people or organizations who disagree with your view of equality and equity?

    The challenges are at two levels; one is at the academic level of involvement and the other one is at the administrative level of the organization.

    At the academic level:

    Only in recent times have public policy dialogues and research gained understanding and acceptance at the Governmental level. It was mostly the media that worked on the forefront of public policy debates outside the Government in this country for many decades. Otherwise it was handled by bureaucrats. With a liberalized economy, the flow of information is unparalleled and it has helped to set a background for public policy researchers. Even then, the centralized planning and the rigid systems in the political party functioning, are challenges to the policy makers. In India, the conservative outlook towards private agencies and individuals getting involved in governance is another challenge. The delays and the lack of transparency in the decision making process at the level of the government is yet another challenge. To find the right kind of wavelength with the policy community is another challenge as it is still a small traction to work with.

    At the organizational level:

    The entrepreneurial challenges are at the forefront. To find like-minded groups and individuals to support our efforts is a challenge. To find the right kind of a team ‘fit’ for the projects is another difficult task. To find the market demand, funders and investors are yet other challenges. To coordinate and find solutions for both, administrative and academic challenges demands a collective action from the team. Luckily, I have a very enterprising team working with me.

     

    You are also the Managing Director at Civitas Consultancies Pvt. Ltd. Tell us something about the nature of your work there.

    In Civitas, we do consultancy work in three different areas; urban, legal and market advisory. We have a team of consultants working with clients in all of the aforementioned areas, offering the most market friendly solutions. Innovation and ideation are the buzz words in Civitas.

     

    You’ve worked very closely with the government at different levels and NGOs in addition to corporate houses. How did you adapt to different work environments?

    It is really challenging at times. We are researchers and how good you are at presenting your findings is the key. We believe in focus studies and primary research. We demonstrate the causal factors for each social issue. We argue to the extent of challenging conventional wisdom and regular practices. All of this needs to be done in a very simple way so as to enable the audience to understand easily. We also use the technique of two way interaction while presenting the facts and figures.

    The biggest challenge is when we work with the Government. Frequent transfers of the officers and political inaction can cause delay and sometimes will kill the initiative. Sometimes, the change agents will be one or two in a system. So the success depends a lot on how powerful they are. Unfortunately in India, doing business with the government is very difficult, irrespective of what the sector is.

     

    Do you think this is an area which holds opportunities for law graduates, seeing that it deals with rights, duties, rules, freedoms and equality?

    A law graduate can do a lot and there are many opportunities. One can look at their neighbourhood and understand how flawed our system is. Many laws are redundant or obsolete. Millions are suffering because of this lack of vibrancy in law making. Law graduates can start on their own. They can assist the local municipal councilor to MPs in the legislative businesses. They can help the poor by advocating for their rights and duties. In fact, there is no avenue in governance where a law graduate can be ignored.

     

    You are also an avid blogger at MindTEXT, where you deal with issues of social and political relevance. How do you balance your hectic schedule? Is blogging something that helps you relax after a long, busy day?

    I like observing different ecosystems. I try to understand the different rules and regulations and various types of players in these ecosystems. Then I try to understand how one ecosystem interacts with the other ecosystems. How do each one of them react to various situations? Once I have a clear picture, I share my thoughts on them by writing in MindTEXT. It is so natural to me to express random thoughts.

     

    What are your hobbies apart from writing?

    I like to read and watch sports, games.

     

    With the diversity of career options evolving, what would be your advice to current law school students and graduates?

    There is no dearth of opportunities in this country. In fact, the country needs millions of law graduates. Each one of you can be a specialist while being sensitive to the society around you. It will be an interesting journey if one finds the root cause of social problems. A law graduate can contribute immensely to find solutions to these social issues.

    Observe and understand the society first before opting for legal interpretations. Laws are evolving and subject to change. It is important to understand how the society responds to the existing laws and how legal systems respond to the changing times. Emphasis shall be given to reading and debating on the changing times.