We are extremely delighted to have you with us for this interview. To start, could you please introduce yourself and share the inspiration behind establishing Pravah Law Offices?
Thank you for having me. I have been a Delhi-based practising lawyer since 2017. The bulk of my practise is at the Supreme Court, which is also the forum where I learnt the maximum work as an associate with my mentors, Ms. Haripriya Padmanabhan and Mr. Gopal Sankaranarayanan.
‘Pravah Law’ is the official designation of my law chambers. The primary motivation behind establishing it was to foster a distinct professional identity that resonates with my core values and expertise, to enhance the efficiency and organization of my practice.
Being awarded the Vice-Chancellor’s Gold Medal for ‘Best Male Student’ is a remarkable achievement. How has your academic journey, including your time at National Law University, Delhi, influenced your approach to law and legal practice?
Getting the Vice-Chancellor’s Gold Medal was a big confidence booster because of what it signifies: it is awarded to two students from each batch, male and female, who graduate with the best all-round performance. Incidentally, even at my school’s farewell function, I was awarded the ‘Best All-Rounder’ trophy—something I cherish more than any other recognition I’ve received. I enjoy being able to handle multiple activities and projects together. In college, I was an avid sportsperson, musician and mooter (in that order) with an interest in many other extra-curricular activities.
As regards academics, those five years were formative. My teachers at NLU Delhi were outstanding in terms of how much they pushed us. For instance, we were made to prepare bulky, complex judgments and other texts within tight deadlines—not just read the material, but also form polished opinions about it. This seemed impossible back then. We kept complaining about being forced to meet unrealistic standards! But I realise with every passing day as to how much edge those exercises can give you in a profession where reading is everything and everything is to be read. I owe a lot to NLU Delhi.
Your LL.M. at the University of Michigan Law School was accompanied by the prestigious Michigan Grotius Fellowship. How did this international exposure shape your perspective on law, and what key lessons did you bring back to your practice in India?
It was a terrific experience. UMich gives you the freedom to design your course by choosing any combination of subjects. So, besides my law subjects (media law, freedom of speech & religion, equality law etc.), I selected a few subjects situated at the intersection of law and philosophy, which significantly contributed to my intellectual growth. My teachers were excellent and my classmates were intelligent and accomplished, which made classes engaging and challenging. It was exactly the kind of quality I wanted in my higher education.
Looking back, my most important learning in Ann Arbor was that there’s always another way—to think of a legal problem, articulate an argument, research case law, and even draft a memorandum—if only one is willing. I find that many colleagues here are used to old methods that may no longer work, at least not as effectively as one would like. The mere willingness to try another way can produce great results. And it requires no earth-shattering effort; sometimes, it is as simple as learning a new technological tool, shortening your drafts, using visual representations (graphs instead of paragraphs), making a LinkedIn profile, or even writing an email that you thought would be futile.
Law Vaarta is a unique blend of Hindi and English, making legal discussions more accessible. What inspired you to start this podcast, and how has the response been from your audience?
I believe that law is not as elusive as it is made out to be. Every citizen is capable of understanding the law, provided it is explained in simple language. Unfortunately, discussions around the law on TV and other media are either superficial or too technical-sounding. That is why I felt that a platform is required where complex legal issues are explained in straightforward language without losing their complexity.
I am delighted with the response the podcast has received. People have been kind in their appreciation as well as criticism, both of which are aimed at improving the quality of the content. I’m learning new things about content creation on the go. In 2024, I intend to increase the reach of the podcast through interactive content that will cater specifically to law students and young litigators, in the hope that litigation can become a more accessible profession.
Your research covers various topics, from constitutional rights to online gaming legislation. What upcoming research projects or areas of interest are you currently exploring?
Over the past couple of years, I have picked up an interest in empirical research on judicial behaviour. I am currently working on two projects relating to preventive detention and one on India’s abortion law. All three projects are geared towards understanding the behaviour of the Supreme Court and High Courts in cases involving the fundamental rights of citizens. For instance, in the preventive detention research, I am trying to map the speed with which our constitutional courts act in habeas corpus petitions against illegal detentions.
The Right to Receive Information is an upcoming publication. Can you give our readers a sneak peek into what conceptual problems you explore in this piece?
In the post-emergency years, the Supreme Court infused many fundamental rights with expansive content. The right to receive information was a product of this exercise. The Supreme Court held that the right to “speak” under Article 19 of the Constitution includes the right to “know”. I find this to be somewhat of a logical jump. There is no doubt that an informed citizen will exercise their right to free speech more meaningfully, but it is hard to agree with the proposition that there is no right to free speech without full or proper information about the subject matter. Anyway, the paper mainly explores the judicial approach to the right to receive information over the years, first, on whether the right is horizontal or vertical, and second, on whether there are any additional grounds on which the right to receive information can be restricted over and above the grounds listed in Article 19(2). The paper finds that the judicial approach on both counts has been thoroughly inconsistent and requires clarity.
On a personal note, outside the legal realm, what are your hobbies or activities that bring you joy and relaxation?
I try and do everything that interests me: poetry, sports, music and beyond. Lately, I have been exploring coding to automate some of my daily tasks as a litigator, which would help me save time on clerical work and focus on the more substantive aspects of the law.
Looking ahead, what are your future goals or aspirations for Pravah Law Offices
As the chamber’s work grows, increasing the size of the team has been on my mind. In fact, Pravah Law recently finished one round of hiring. To my good fortune, I have generous mentors and supportive clients, and I am sure the chamber will grow rapidly with their blessings.
Other than that, I endeavor that Pravah Law remains ahead of the curve in terms of technological infrastructure and awareness. I believe lawyers must upgrade and upskill every year. Artificial intelligence is making path-breaking advances by the minute, and I do not doubt that lawyers will have to catch up to stay relevant.
Considering your multifaceted journey, what advice would you offer to aspiring lawyers, especially those who are interested in a diverse legal practice or engaging in legal academia?
‘Advice’ is a tricky concept. Everyone comes from a different context and must figure out their own ways. But I would pass on the following helpful pieces of advice that I have followed:
“Litigation is 10% intelligence and 90% diligence.”
What prompted you to do Law? and then, what prompted you to move to corporate law? And at the end in the whole journey. What made you establish Agama Law associates?
The question of why law has always intrigued me, dating back to a remarkably early age of around 12 or 13. At that point, my understanding of the legal field was limited, and there were no familial ties to the profession. Nevertheless, something about law captivated me deeply. As a voracious reader during my childhood, I found the prospect of a career where continuous learning was inherent and extended throughout one’s professional life to be highly appealing.
The realization that law touches every aspect of life dawned on me as I grew older. Unlike professions such as medicine, pharma, or engineering, which often specialize in a single domain, the legal profession offers a unique insight into multiple facets of life. Whether practicing medical law, which requires a profound understanding of medicine, or delving into criminal law, where a high understanding of criminal psychology is crucial, the multifaceted nature of law continues to be a source of excitement.
Moreover, my enthusiasm for law extends to the generalist role I currently embrace. In a landscape where specialization is often emphasized, my passion lies in exploring diverse areas of law. This inclination was evident from an early stage, a decision supported by my father. This generalist approach allows me to navigate through various legal territories and maintain a broad perspective, which I find both stimulating and fulfilling.
Reflecting on my journey, the inception of my legal career was marked by this passion and a commitment to continuous learning. It’s a journey that has been shaped by a love for reading, an excitement for the multifaceted nature of law, and a deliberate choice to remain a generalist in a world that often leans towards specialization.
My legal journey commenced under the mentor-ship of a senior counsel, renowned as the leading shipping lawyer in the country at that time. The realm of shipping law was exceptionally thrilling and lucrative, akin to a gold mine in the legal landscape. Although disputes were relatively scarce due to the industry’s prosperity, my exposure was comprehensive. From witnessing ship arrests to navigating shipbuilding contracts, the experience was enlightening. As junior members in a senior’s office, understanding the intricacies of queuing matters and gauging the dynamics of working alongside a seasoned professional fueled my desire to explore beyond the apparent tip of the iceberg.
Subsequently, my journey led me to a solicitor setup, where the practice encompassed both litigation and non-litigation matters. This phase afforded me a diverse range of experiences, delving into project finance and mergers and acquisitions (M&A). Engaging in IPO-related work and handling white-collar matters in the court provided a well-rounded exposure. Frequenting both Criminal Court and the High Court for writ petitions enriched my understanding of legal processes.
Transitioning to a role at AZB marked a grounding experience, characterized by the demanding quality of work and the competitiveness inherent in the firm’s culture. The challenges posed in managing time constraints and a myriad of responsibilities served as a valuable learning curve. This stint prompted a process of unlearning certain approaches, fostering personal and professional growth.
My inclination towards connecting with people on an individual level led to the establishment of Agama. Originating in a single room, this venture symbolizes my quest to reach out independently and make a tangible impact. The journey, from the initial mentorship in shipping law to navigating diverse legal landscapes, has been characterized by continuous learning, adaptation, and the pursuit of meaningful connections.
Your experience spans various sectors, from manufacturing to healthcare. Is there a specific industry that you find particularly intriguing or challenging, and why? And how do you break the boundaries and enter that challenge, because this is for the ones who are entering this amazing field of law as you mentioned.
For lawyers, such as myself, who adopt an industry-agnostic approach, the legal landscape presents a diverse and expansive canvas. Personally, I’ve been fortunate to accumulate a wealth of varied experiences across different sectors. Among the most dynamic and engaging areas of law today is the realm of general corporate law.
Within general corporate law, several sectors stand out as particularly exciting. One such burgeoning industry is logistics, encompassing a spectrum of aspects, from real estate to road and vehicle-related laws. The logistics industry has witnessed remarkable growth, with emerging players like micro-mobility companies and port operators contributing to its dynamism. Advising clients in this field involves addressing a wide range of issues, including labor matters, especially those with an IT-centric focus. Additionally, logistics offers opportunities to provide counsel on data protection and navigate complex cross-border challenges. The sector also presents instances of high-quality arbitration, especially concerning transport, customs, and international trade.
Another compelling and niche area that is currently witnessing the development of legal jurisprudence is the regulatory framework surrounding renewable energy. In this domain, there are relatively few lawyers in the country specializing in this evolving field. Personally, I have been privileged to work on projects related to renewable energy, particularly in assisting a client in setting up solar farms in India. This experience has spanned a broad spectrum, involving M&A, regulatory compliance, and labor issues, making it a truly comprehensive and rewarding endeavor over the past one and a half years.
In the context of fostering growth and cultivating relationships with clients, particularly within the framework of your own firm, could you share insights into how you went about establishing these connections? What strategies did you employ when encountering unfamiliar individuals whom you identified as potential valuable clients for your firm? Additionally, could you elaborate on the foundational values that guided your approach in engaging with clients and ultimately contributed to the development and current standing of your firm?
The foundation of any long term relationship lies in unwavering mutual trust and mutual value addition. For us, as lawyers, trust is given where we uncomplicate. If businesses can trust us to unwind the complexity in a stressful situation, as fast as possible, instead of taking them deeper down the web of intricacy – we have justified our existence. Navigating the intricacies of being a good lawyer revolves around a crucial ability: the aptitude to unravel complex problems and present them in simplistic terms, particularly from the client’s perspective. The foremost skill lies in understanding the client’s desires, pinpointing their current pain points, and crafting viable solutions.
Some of the most renowned lawyers often exhibit this proficiency, breaking down intricate legal matters into comprehensible points for their clients. The challenge arises from the fact that clients may express their problems differently due to a lack of legal understanding. Lawyers need to bridge this gap by deciphering the true legal issues beneath the client’s articulated concerns.
Ultimately, being an effective lawyer hinges on a clear comprehension of what the client wants, an astute understanding of their present challenges, and the ability to provide feasible solutions. The task extends beyond legal expertise, requiring effective communication and translation of legal intricacies into practical and accessible terms for the client.
Certainly, the process involves two distinct facets: understanding clients and acquiring clients. Acquiring clients, relatively, is the more manageable aspect. It often necessitates showcasing one’s abilities, effectively communicating in the client’s language, and establishing a level of comfort that encourages collaboration.
In the contemporary legal landscape, companies tend to engage with multiple legal professionals for diverse needs, disrupting the traditional model where a single firm handled all legal matters. As a result, lawyers need to adapt to this shift and recognize that not every point of contact transforms into a client. Identifying whether a client is attainable, either from the client’s perspective or the lawyer’s, is a nuanced evaluation.
Understanding clients, on the other hand, delves into the core of their challenges and aspirations. It involves deciphering the key issues they face and determining whether the proposed legal solutions align with their objectives. The crux lies in comprehending what the client aims to achieve and guiding them toward feasible solutions. This task stands out as the most intricate part of the process.
While legal documentation and transaction structuring are essential components, they primarily serve as logistical elements. However the foundational value is to get at the core of what a business needs but is not able to put into words. The value is also to minimize logistical efforts, and hence costs, as far as dispensable without compromising on risk-protection. The true essence lies in grasping whether our efforts effectively contribute to realizing the client’s goals. Therefore, the key to success in the legal profession lies in the nuanced understanding of both acquiring and understanding clients, ensuring that legal services align with and contribute to the client’s desired outcomes.
Could you elaborate on how you navigate the delicate balance between intricate legal nuances and the broader business context when serving in an advisory role? Specifically, when recommending clients to others, how do you manage this equilibrium, considering that clients hold the reins in decision-making, and advisory services revolve around facilitating their processes and needs?
As an advisor, I have an obligation to multiple coordination points – the individual seeking advice, the organization the individual is representing, and then the criticalities that both the representing individual as well as the organizational governance may not have full awareness or understanding of and may not have planned to address, yet. It’s crucial to align these aspects. For instance, a client might approach us for a lease agreement, but upon deeper discussion, we may discover they lack essential commercial terms. In such cases, our role evolves beyond legal drafting, extending to advising on business risks and strategic decisions.
While some clients seek legal interpretations, others welcome comprehensive business advice. The distinction lies in understanding their specific needs. Some engagements involve academic legal exercises, while others delve into strategic business decisions. Being part of this decision-making process is equally enjoyable for us.
As an advisor, the key is intuitive understanding—discerning whether clients merely seek legal input or require a deeper exploration of their business context. This process takes time and builds on familiarity, similar to understanding friends. Ultimately, aligning with clients’ objectives is paramount in offering effective advisory services.
Your focus on process-driven risk management systems for startups is noteworthy. What key principles do you believe are crucial for startups to establish a sustainable foundation in terms of legal compliance?
Sustainable business foundations would involve managing foresight and mapping the pie that a business is trying to negotiate for itself, well in advance. In the sharply agile market that we are witnessing in all sectors thanks to tech advancement and artificial intelligence, a business that desires to sustain itself for any amount of term that is markable, the bare minimum requirement is to cover for risks and obligations that will flow much in advance. Mature entrepreneurs have that foresight to an extent, but fledgling start ups don’t. This is where our experience – and the systems and in-built processes that has led to within our advice – comes in.
When startups seek advice, we often encounter two distinct types. Firstly, there are mature entrepreneurs who have prior experience in the field and are advancing their ventures. Dealing with them is relatively straightforward as they possess a solid understanding of the workings, time-frames, and compliance risks. They proactively ask the necessary questions, making the consultation process smoother.
On the other hand, there’s a different category of startups – those with innovative products or disruptive ideas seeking funding and eager to establish and run their systems. Handling these startups requires a unique approach. With mature entrepreneurs, conversations can delve into advanced levels, as they are already aware of the eventual need for compliance. In such cases, simplifying their journey is achievable by providing checklists and connecting them with essential professionals like company secretaries and chartered accountants. We have a well-established network of professionals with whom we collaborate, facilitating these connections.
For the latter type of startups, there is a need for a more persuasive approach. Convincing them of the importance of compliance is crucial. As legal advisors, our role primarily involves guiding them on compliance requirements rather than directly handling compliance matters. By effectively communicating the necessity of adherence to regulations, we aim to bridge this understanding gap and help them navigate the intricacies of legal compliance. Ensuring success in the startup landscape today is imperative, especially considering the vast reach of the Internet. I recently came across an intriguing insight in a doctor’s room that resonates with this—suggesting that if you trust Google for health advice, you might as well ask Google to cure you. In today’s digital age, startups often grapple with misconceptions, and my role involves investing time upfront to dispel any misinformation and guide them in understanding the landscape.
One key area I find crucial is steering startups towards sustainable investments. Beyond mere compliance, many startups, in their early stages, inadvertently sacrifice significant equity and rights. The true victory, in my perspective, lies in assisting startups to secure sustainable investments that will propel the company forward without compromising its core interests. This involves strategic steps to avoid pitfalls and foster the company’s long-term growth.
In my experience, every startup journey unveils distinct challenges and perspectives, which continually enriches my understanding of the dynamic startup ecosystem. It’s fascinating to approach each situation with an open mind, as the nuances and intricacies vary, offering fresh perspectives and learning’s with every new collaboration.
Mergers and Acquisitions form a significant part of your practice. Could you share a memorable experience or deal that posed unique challenges and how you navigated through them?
The turning point in my approach to M&A came when as part of one deal, I had said a big unequivocal “No” on behalf of our clients to one of the deal terms. The counter-party, a significant figure in a large group, was humble and kind enough to not come back aggressively to that position but encourage a dialogue. Which is when it really sunk in how much more are we as “facilitators” instead of hurdles, on deal making, as lawyers. And the art of negotiation is something we can’t ever have honed enough – there’s always some new interpersonal aspect to learn about. Despite his stature, he was kind and humble, encouraging a dialogue to resolve the issue. Such experiences reshape one’s perspective, emphasizing the importance of effective negotiation. Therefore,, when it comes to mergers, the crux, for me, lies in negotiations. This has been the most significant learning for me over the past decade. Working with an entire team provides a certain level of comfort due to the presence of seniors and super seniors. However, the true learning comes from actively negotiating a transaction and seeing it through, which I believe is a crucial skill for lawyers. My advice to young professionals is to actively seek opportunities where they can lead or negotiate transactions rather than being a part of a larger team.
In our practice, we have instilled this philosophy from the beginning. Regardless of their seniority, all associates are encouraged to actively participate in negotiations and discussions. This exposure ensures that they grasp the context of the deal and understand the dynamics involving clients and counter-parties.
One challenge in today’s M&A landscape is the post-deal closures, especially in mergers. While closing the deal itself is significant, the groundwork post-merger is equally crucial. Nowadays, many companies handle this in-house or enlist the help of consultants, making it essential for lawyers to understand the entire process.
Lastly, for young professionals aspiring to excel in M&A, I recommend dedicating effort to understanding the regulatory landscape. Regulatory filings, particularly under the Competition Act, offer a unique perspective. Arguing why a particular combination is not detrimental to competition provides valuable exposure that significantly enhances one’s understanding of M&A in the Indian legal context. If time permits, M&A is an excellent avenue for learning the diverse facets of law.
Your contributions to various publications and your recognition as a thought leader reflect your commitment to sharing insights. What motivates you to contribute, and how do you stay ahead in an ever-evolving legal and business landscape?
Lawyers often claim they don’t read enough due to the fast-paced nature of the legal landscape. However, staying ahead requires continuous reading, networking, and engaging with the legal community. Isolation isn’t conducive to legal work; interacting with peers, meeting business professionals, and fraternizing with others are essential for effective practice.
In terms of recognitions, accolades, and awards, one values recognition for their writing. Encouraging everyone in the company to write, regardless of seniority, expands minds and provides a broader perspective. Writing on various subjects not only benefits the company but also enhances the individual’s understanding of the overall legal landscape. It is most satisfying being approached for stories on POSH and labor-specific law over the past ten years by leading magazines. This recognition, despite not being a senior labor lawyer, is particularly meaningful.
It would do well to acknowledge the significance of industry magazines and editorial efforts, such as IBLJ, for recognizing lawyers. This recognition makes younger lawyers feel like a vital part of the legal community and boosts morale, especially when attempting to create something parallel to established setups. The credit goes to those in editorial roles who contribute to highlighting the achievements and perspectives of lawyers outside the traditional legal hierarchy.
Your recognition as a finalist for “Woman Lawyer of the Year 2023” and other prestigious awards is impressive. How do such recognitions impact your approach to your work, and what advice do you have for young lawyers aspiring to make a mark in the legal field?
Personally, every morning when I wake up, the motivating factor is knowing that clients rely on me. There’s nothing more inspiring than the realization that I can contribute to their businesses. Additionally, my team is waiting for me each day, and our discussions about ongoing issues drive me to be there for them as we work to advise clients. It’s a dynamic mix of client needs and team collaboration that fuels my motivation.
Speaking of recognition’s, it’s a relatively recent trend. When we left law school, there weren’t as many accolades for lawyers. While I value these recognition’s and they undoubtedly make one feel good (who wouldn’t want to be called a top lawyer in the country?), it’s crucial for young professionals to understand the importance of building their CVs continuously. Every task, from writing an article to advising a client, should be documented. Keeping a record of your learning experiences allows for recollection when needed, whether for award submissions or networking. This proactive approach helps people remember you, and at our firm, we ensure everyone records and reflects on their work regularly. It’s about considering what could have been done better, what went right, what went wrong, and identifying areas for improvement. In the fast-paced world, reflective practices might not always be feasible, but being mindful of this can significantly contribute to personal and professional growth, fostering a sense of pride and accomplishment.
In an era of increasing data concerns, you’ve been actively involved in data protection agreements. How do you assist clients, especially those in software creation, in navigating data protection compliance and mitigating associated risks?
In today’s globalized business landscape, privacy has become a crucial factor due to the vast amount of data available to businesses. The handling of data is emerging as a key cost-driving factor, influencing how companies operate. For instance, there is a shift towards keeping data within specific geographical boundaries, like storing Indian data in India and EU data in the EU, driven by government directives, especially in developed countries. While some governments mandate these practices, in India, it’s often seen more as a compliance requirement.
Our approach to reviewing data protection agreements or privacy documents varies based on the client. With Indian clients, we emphasize the need for compliance, advising against drafting anything they can’t adhere to or might require additional funds for compliance. Privacy is considered non-negotiable, and non-compliance, especially for European clients, can result in significant fines. We often assist clients dealing with European parties but processing data in India, guiding them through transfer impact assessments to ensure compliance.
The introduction of the Data Protection Act (DPA) is expected to enhance the infrastructure for protecting citizens’ privacy. However, we acknowledge that the existing Information Technology Act and rules, if implemented effectively, could serve a similar purpose. Enforcement, though, remains a challenge due to the complexity of procedures, such as involving the cyber cell or the legal system. With the DPA, many principles are being codified into law, reflecting legislative intent. While this might not drastically alter the groundwork for companies, it does offer more avenues for data subjects to seek enforcement.
Beyond your professional achievements, what personal interests or activities contribute to your growth and well-being outside the legal realm?
I believe, like many lawyers, I do face challenges when it comes to taking care of my health. I wish I could prioritize my well-being more and achieve a better balance. However, what takes up the majority of my time is my family, as we have a fairly large one. Balancing work and family is a constant challenge, but we make efforts to promote healthier eating habits within our family.
For me, mental well-being is crucial, considering the demands of the legal profession. Small things at home can become sources of stress, so learning to switch off when at work and using tools like reminders helps manage personal commitments. Technology, in this sense, plays a significant role in helping me stay organized, reminding me of tasks such as buying a gift for my son.
While it’s challenging, I’ve learned to establish boundaries between work and home life. Despite the difficulty in today’s fast-paced world, I make an effort not to work when I’m at home. Being part of a family of professionals, with my husband also being a lawyer, helps create routines that prioritize family time, especially on weekends.
Achieving this balance is different for everyone, and I acknowledge that it’s not an easy task. Personally, I wish I could find more time to read nonfiction, as I used to read several books a year, and now finding time for even one or two is a challenge. However, it remains something I’d love to prioritize in the future.
Could you share a bit about your journey from starting as a litigator to becoming a business lawyer? How has your overseas experience shaped your approach as a business lawyer, and what valuable insights have you gained from working across diverse legal landscapes?
When I joined the legal profession, it was the norm to work with a senior practitioner in the courts. My first job was with Mr. Pran Nath Talwar, a senior advocate at the Delhi High Court who was the Standing Counsel for DDA. I worked with him for two years, from July 1986 to July 1988. Mr. Talwar was a stellar lawyer with a razor-sharp mind. Every day he regaled me with stories about the law, about life and always insisted we read the jurisprudence deeply and fully and learn how to apply it. He underscored the devil is always in the detail and to ensure we know full facts before starting to think of the merits or demerits of a case. I was fortunate to get solid grounding with him.
Subsequently, I left for the US to study further and then had opportunities to work there. My work with the large US law firms exposed me to and gave me insights on the western large firm model functioning – a deeper and different kind of professional ethics, to structured processes and systems, to development of a profound sense of responsibility for the advice we give to clients on the basis of which corporations were going to take decisions, to concepts of negligence if our advice was incomplete or inaccurate. After I moved to Paris, initially for a year, in a pre-Google era, I confronted different challenges including juggling work in a country where the native language was not English and I did not speak a word of French. I had no option but to take up the challenge and do what I had to. I was thrown into the deep end of the pool and simply had to figure out how to swim if I did not want to drown. I did not get anything easy, and, in hindsight, I am glad it was that way. Eventually, my one year in Paris became five!
Since my formative professional years were spent overseas, my work experience in both the US and in Europe shaped me enormously and provided insights on how to work which now, over decades, are part of my DNA! My clients reinforced that transparency is key when advising and it is best to be direct, without providing circuitous or ambiguous counsel. Eventually, we must remember they act on our recommendations, relying on our expertise. Plus, there is always a human impact as eventually people implement. So, it is crucial to understand the ramifications of what we say, when we say, and how we say. The work environment coupled with the commitment and diligence towards the tiniest of matters made me realize that regardless of the country, some key fundamentals are global: work hard truly, honestly with the key objective of securing the best result for your client and it will not evade you. All my lessons, professional learnings and value systems garnered from my clients, peers and seniors from around the globe always pointed to one thing only – work hard and the results will come. I suppose it is the age-old wisdom from the Bhagavad Gita. I firmly subscribe to the view that there are no shortcuts to success. Let your work speak for you and do not look for excuses.
Congratulations on being named “Woman Lawyer of the Year – India & Middle East” and the recipient of the “Mayre Rasmussen Award” for promoting gender equality. How do these accolades impact your commitment to gender sensitization, women empowerment and equality within the legal profession?
Thank you very much. Of course, I am very grateful, but the accolades came much later. Legal awards are a relatively recent development, while I have been personally, deeply committed to the advancement and nurturing of women lawyers in India since I returned to set up the practice. As a first-generation woman lawyer, setting my own firm in the late 90s was a huge challenge in every aspect, be it law firm management, execution of work, finding and training teams. Slowly, but surely, I wanted to try to make a difference and help in gender sensitization, women empowerment and equality. The legal profession is changing so rapidly everywhere, Indian women need to be equipped to handle the change and how the future is likely to impact their practice, be it of solo practitioners in courts or within law firms or in-house positions. While the education system has undergone a change, and the information highway is at everyone’s fingertips, yet most prospective lawyers are unprepared for life with the law. This requires more practical courses and skillful use of interns. All of us who are experienced at the Bar need to contribute to bring about that transformation. There is a dire need to focus on professional development, which must be matched by a desire to grow as well by women protagonists.
I think it is essential to focus on the reasons why organizations should create sustainability for women in the legal profession. There should be strategies in place for nurturing our own careers and those of the women following us. I have looked at this issue often, both in India and overseas. It is essential to address the issues from a positive perspective and focus on what women lawyers can and should do to participate in their own success and the success of those who follow them. Despite a lot of progress in the law firm world, we still have “miles to go.” I could articulate more, but I think these are enough for the moment. After over three and half decades in the law, I feel the legal world needs to be more open to change as we come together to share experiences and aid in finding solutions at a local, national and even transborder level.
You’ve authored books and contributed to various publications. How does thought leadership play a role in shaping discussions on legal issues, and what motivated you to share your insights through books?
So, for me, as a first gen lawyer in an era where technology had not really evolved, I had to devise ways and means to showcase my capabilities while building a practice. Writing came naturally to me. Plus, while navigating through the labyrinth of varied laws, regulations, guidelines, I would often be flummoxed at the lack of clarity, even amongst those who implemented those laws. The challenge was always to find answers in simple words. As a result, I thought writing and publishing would be a tool to demonstrate subject matter knowledge plus say it in a manner which would be easy for the reader to understand. I still feel the same.
As a Board member of the International Technology Law Association, how do you see the intersection of technology and law evolving, and what legal challenges and opportunities do you anticipate in this space?
I firmly believe whether we like it or not, rapid developments in technology have changed and are continuing to change how people consume, interact, play and work. Like it or not, AI, Big Data, blockchain, cybersecurity, Fintech, IoT, privacy are here to stay and an integral part of daily lives.
While government policies will influence the direction of technological developments, laws and regulations will undoubtedly need to match and address the new reality. Some people fear developments in the foregoing areas will somehow replace human interactions and, eventually, make us shed our human persona. Others believe these innovations will benefit humanity and help solve many problems of today and potentially of the future. As companies navigate through these changes and await effective enforcement of new legislation, one key challenge is how to gear up for the future and the need to formulate internal rules that comply with strictest global standards in place in other parts of the world or wait to match with local requirements. Legislating and regulating developing technologies is complex, and it becomes way more complex when crossing borders. A balance between global and local rules with some degree of self-regulation will be the need of the hour. Another problem is legislation can take far too long. Look what happened to the Digital Personal Data Protection Act and the number of years and iterations it has taken to pass this law. More than 4.5 months after the DPDP Act was passed, we still await the rules. In the tech world, this feels like eternity. Finally, I want to touch on cybercrime and data breaches which have grown exponentially even when compared with the start of the pandemic. A systemic threat of cybersecurity risks is the talk of most boardrooms. But while awareness is growing many directors simply are unsure if they have the information and tools to effectively handle today’s dangers. The massive digital transformation requires robust cybersecurity and privacy laws. The Indian government must put in place far more effective mechanisms to regulate cybersecurity and cybercrime effectively.
Can you share a particularly challenging or memorable deal you’ve worked on? How did you navigate complexities to ensure a successful outcome?
There are many that come to mind, but I will talk about one. I was in Europe for business and had to travel to the US for client meetings. Meanwhile, the Iraq war started which led to companies imposing travel embargoes. I had a tricky transaction that was to close later that week in Delhi. The business and legal team of the client wanted me to travel to India but I had commitments. I managed to convince them to let me stick to my travel schedule, and committed that I would be available to work with my team and the other side according to Indian time that week to ensure closing occurs timely. They agreed. As I was about to board the plane for New York, I got a call from my colleague in Delhi who said there was a problem, which was really an issue of the counterparty. They realized and announced at the last minute, but the effect was the deal could be in jeopardy. We needed to inform the client, and I had to board my transatlantic flight. Oh, and the colleague was to wrap up work on this file and then leave for her wedding, which was 2 weeks later. I felt the flight from London to New York was crawling and just felt helpless due to lack of knowledge. Eventually, I succumbed and asked for a satellite phone, rang my office in Delhi and got all the facts. I knew the client would be unhappy to hear of the developments. Upon landing in NY, I connected with the business and legal people at the client where one was ready to call off the whole thing, while the other wanted to proceed.
The problem was that we needed regulatory intervention, and it is always tough to predict the duration a government agency may take. So, there were several moving pieces, and we had no idea how long the closing could take. I told the client if they wanted to proceed, I would find a solution. I canceled my meetings in the US for the next few days, went to a travel agent and bought a ticket to fly to India. I must have been in the US for 5 hours from landing to heading again to the airport. I returned to Delhi as fast as I could, went directly to the office and stayed there for a week. We delayed the closing by a few days, drafted additional contracts to address the new developments which were negotiated each night between 10 PM to 2 AM and, finally, managed to get to the finishing line a week after the original scheduled date. It was tough both physically and mentally as I did not sleep for 3 or 4 days at all but worked non-stop. The satisfaction of a successful outcome with all sides happy was the adrenalin rush that kept us all going!
Juggling a dynamic legal career and contributing to various committees and associations can be challenging. How do you maintain balance in your professional and personal life? Any hobbies or activities that you turn to for relaxation?
Balance does not come easy for anyone, and it needs both method and time and for long-term gains, it is important to cultivate resilience. I meditate regularly, read, take time out for fitness, and find periods of silence, all of which is therapeutic. Then, my closest childhood friends are my rocks and always there for me, when I need to talk. I also think it is essential to create boundaries, personal and professional. I never did that for the longest time when I was building the firm, but I encourage all my colleagues to do so and do so myself as well now.
Looking ahead, how do you perceive the future of legal practice, especially considering the evolving dynamics of international business and technological advancements? What advice would you give to the coming generation of lawyers?
The legal landscape is at a very interesting phase undergoing rapid and radical change. Boundaries have blurred with digital and technology transformation. Then, competition has increased exponentially, putting pressure on firms and lawyers to be increasingly open to innovation. While the legal industry is known for sticking to tradition but for practices to thrive, lawyers must be aligned with developments in technology and emerging areas of practice, focus on building skills and learn effective, consistent communication, both internal and external. Never forget clients demand efficiency, transparency, personalized service. I firmly believe lawyers have the potential to seize challenges and convert them to opportunities.
Your experience includes working with renowned firms and handling diverse responsibilities. Could you walk us through your journey from your early career to founding Satyaki Legal, highlighting key milestones and experiences?
I am an advocate who started her career 8 years ago, in 2016. After gaining experience of working with senior advocates, I eventually started working as a partner with a firm and now 2 years ago, I started with my own firm, Satyaki Legal. When in my career, I had almost worked in the domains I wanted to practice in, run a team of my own, I believed I could start my own firm. We started in the last month of 2021, where from finding the firm name to getting the website and team members was done, we are now a humble team of 5 with an established portfolio of start- ups and corporates to manage and work with.
As the founder of Satyaki Legal, you’ve had the opportunity to work with both national and international clients. How do you approach building relationships with clients, especially in a field that requires a deep understanding of their business and creative assets?
From books to billboards, I believe in reading everything that crosses my path. To stay in the know has always been my thing- which forms a firm base of my communication skills. To constantly stay in touch with clients is also another thing that helps you understand their operations and the hurdles they face while conducting it. Being able to grasp a client’s work and their industry’s work culture can only be understood while being in touch with them on a 1-on-1 basis as well as having an open mindset towards their point of view.
Having worked with notable companies like Blinkit, McCain, and others, what are some of the most interesting or challenging projects you’ve undertaken in the realm of intellectual property, and how have they contributed to your growth as an IP attorney?
Intellectual Property has a lot to do with a brands’ market presence and the knowledge of the brand amongst the customers. The legal problems that I faced at that time weren’t simple textbook problems, they were dynamic in nature and needed understanding of the market/industry as well. So, whilst working with these Clients and some others as well, the mere textbook answers weren’t sufficient. There in that situation I learnt to develop a holistic point of view and also assess the legal problem and come out with resolutions accordingly.
With your extensive experience, you’ve worked on more than 500 trademarks, 50 patents, and numerous designs. Is there a particular case or project that you found particularly challenging or rewarding, and why?
Every project or case that comes up to us has unique challenges and they thus after getting resolved or completed do seem rewarding. But I remember this one particular project where an extant variety of plant had to apply for Protection of Plant variety in India which led to several visits to the relevant authority. Similar was the case where I had to apply for registration of a novel food under FSSAI provisions. There was one case where we worked on the terms and conditions of the sale by launching an e- commerce portal a day before because it was then that it was sent to us, one before the Launch of their Sale.
You’ve assisted numerous start-ups in strategizing their IP assets. How crucial is intellectual property management for start-ups, and what advice do you often find yourself giving to emerging businesses in this regard?
I keep telling this to start- ups and I can’t get tired of it, that first protect yourself and then launch yourself. We, often as start- ups are tired of just doing the operations and not launching the product or service. In this scenario, we do not consider IP important and go out and launch the product or service in the market. This also happens because we don’t very well recognise the IP that subsists in our key operations. So, I always ask them to take a pause, recognise their IP and first protect them/it and later on promote. This not only protects their work from being copied but also builds the trust of Investors.
Beyond the legal realm, we hear you’re involved in conducting webinars and seminars for IP awareness. What motivated you to take up this initiative, and what kind of impact do you hope to make through these sessions?
Thissubject matter of IP is really close to my heart and hence, ensuring that people know the correct forms of it as well. So, in one of my opportunities to conduct a webinar, I got a chance to deliver a presentation to kids of around 10-12 years. This opportunity was so interesting, with all the witty answers and some extraordinary questions that I was motivated to do more of it!! The only impact I seek to create is awareness as well as certain importance and respect towards Intellectual Property that one holds.
Balancing departmental operations, client engagements, and business development requires skill. How do you manage these various aspects, and what strategies do you employ to ensure a smooth workflow?
The only strategy we follow is to maintain dated notes, have clear start of day and end of day discussion along with weekly overview of tasks. Open communication, putting forth point of views within the team has been very helpful too.
Looking ahead, what is your vision for Satyaki Legal, and how do you see the firm contributing to the legal landscape, especially in intellectual property and media practice?
The vision of course, is to engage more team members and work with more people. In a year, the work and team growth has been as per my target and that’s what we aim to maintain. The mission is to also ensure that the subject matter which is dear to our hearts, Intellectual Property, is given due importance in each of the business operations that take place within an entity.
In addition to your legal expertise, we’re curious about your personal interests. When you’re not immersed in the world of IP law, what hobbies or activities do you enjoy to unwind and recharge?
I have varied interests like reading books. But in order to be stress free as well as lead a healthy lifestyle I do regular workouts (strength training in particular) and meet my friends and family. I am a kathak dancer too, and I take those lessons too, occasionally.
What advice would you give to law students aspiring to specialize in intellectual property and media law, based on your own experiences and the evolving nature of the legal landscape?
I would like to and I always do ask each of those students to simply read. Be well- read, know the market developments, read about brands, their marketing strategies, all of this trivia knowledge will ultimately help each one of them to understand the IP in all of these operations or industries I have told you about. Once that understanding is developed, to work in the realm of IP would not only be easy but interesting as well.
Sir, could you share with our listeners how you embarked on your journey in law? What motivated you to pursue a career in the legal field?
Infact, my current profession of being a litigation lawyer is my second avatar as a professional as I started my career as a Scientist/Assistant Professor of Physics at Delhi University and I still consider myself to be a scientist by training and education but a Lawyer by profession. I am a first generation lawyer with no direct or indirect background in Law till I completed my LL.B. My real-life experiences rather confrontation with Law and Law enforcement agencies and my quest for the justice to the common masses motivated me to make my career in Law. During my stint as Professor of Physics, I was quite captivated by the working of certain law enforcement agencies and other government Institutions under the aegis of Constitution of India and the interplay of the Legislature, the Executive and the Judiciary. Post my LL.B. from University of Delhi, I got shortly associated with the office of ASG, Government of India and AAG for the state of Rajasthan at Hon’ble Supreme Court, and thereafter, I started my own independent practice in the year 2012.
My cordial associations and relationships with my seniors at Supreme Court and other Courts helped me a lot in learning and developing the idea of litigation in a short span of time.
From your early career as a Jr. Associate at the office of the Additional Solicitor to become an Advocate-on-Record of the Supreme Court and to your current role as Senior Central Govt. Counsel, Counsel for DDA, Counsel For state of U.P. and several other PSUs including PNB & RFC and being lead and arguing Counsel for few big Corporate Houses like HAL Offshore, McDonald’s, Ultratech Cement, Binani Cement etc, you’ve navigated through different roles. How did these transitions shape your legal perspective, and what key responsibilities have defined your journey?
Though, I had very short stint as Junior Associate in the office of ASG, Union of India and AAG, State of Rajasthan but I had a lot of learning in those offices and that helped me develop basic idea of litigation in a short span of time and with almighty’s grace, I was also able to strike very cordial associations and relationships with my seniors colleagues as also officers of registry at Supreme Court and other Courts. After only 15-18 months of my Jr. Associateship, I got onto my own independent practice because I started getting a few independent assignments based on my basic understanding of Court Ecosystem. However, my relations with my seniors at Supreme Court, High Courts and District Courts/Tribunals helped me in perfect execution of those assignments, thereby getting the intended reliefs. This is how the journey began and since then I have never looked back.
I am practicing as an independent Litigation and Arbitration Lawyer since Aug’2012 at Supreme Court of India, Delhi High Court, Mumbai High Court & Other High Courts across India, DRTs, DRAT, NCLT, NCLAT CCI, CAT ( erstwhile BIFR & COMPAT) at New Delhi.
The key responsibilities include:
Drafting & Vetting of Pleading of SLPs, Writs, PILs, Suits, Original Applications, Securitization Application, Misc. Applications, Service Matter Petitions, Claim Petition, Counter Claims, Evidence Affidavits, Legal Notice, Reply/rejoinders and conducting Civil Trials and Appeals as also Arbitration matters.
Appearing in all Court proceedings before the Hon’ble Justices & Registrars of Supreme Court of India, Delhi High Court, Bombay High Court, CAT, DRT, DRAT, NCLT, CCI, COMPAT & SAT at New Delhi, Kolkata and Mumbai.
Well versed with SARFAESI Act’ 2002, Recovery of Debts due to Banks & Financial Institutions Act’1993, DRT Rules, DRAT Rules, Banking Regulation Act’1949, Banking Companies Act’1970, Companies Act’2013, Insolvency & Bankruptcy Code’2016, SEBI Act’1992, PMLA Act’2002, Information & Technology Act’2000, Arbitration & Concilliation Act’1996, Specific Relief Act, Registration Act, Contract Act, Specific relief Act, Civil Procedure Code.
Vetting of Contracts, Agreements, Licenses, Hypothecation, Mortgage & Conveyance Deeds.
I am regularly appearing and conducting Litigations before Supreme Court of India, High Court of Delhi & Mumbai, DRT- Mumbai, DRT Kochi, NCLT & NCLAT Delhi, NCLT Mumbai, High Court of Calcutta, High Court of Kerala at Ernakulum, High Court of Orissa at Cuttak for my clients. Apart from my appearances before the Courts, I am also representing many of clients in their Arbitration cases at Mumbai and Delhi. I am also a qualified Mediator and am empanelled as Mediator- at Supreme Court of India.
Your profile showcases extensive experience in Civil-Corporate Litigation, Arbitration, and White-Collar Crimes. How did you develop an interest in these specialized areas, and what challenges and rewards have you encountered along the way?
To be honest with you, as a first generation lawyer, you cannot be choosy as you have to run your show and household also. Therefore, during my initial years, I took variety of cases, which ranged from appearing before a Revenue Officer to going to Police Station or Human Right Commission. From drafting of criminal Complaint to drafting of Consumer Complaint. From drafting a Claim Petition for MACT to drafting a Claim Petition for Arbitral Tribunal. Doing almost all the work at Supreme Court/High Court registry myself. Took every assignment irrespective of its pecuniary rewards or forum or rigours with only one thing in mind that each case was learning experience and success at these cases boosted confidence and fostered new relations at different levels of hierarchy. Success in these small assignment perhaps got me noticed by my senior colleagues and few Corporate Heads and the insight, which I gained during these exposures lead me to convince my initial Clients with confidence. I started getting cases related to Banking and Recovery before DRT Delhi & DRT Mumbai and also erstwhile BIFR. After implementation of IBC regime, these cases took me to NCLT & NCLAT. These financial/ banking cases with big exposure values invariably involve criminal aspects of wilful default, siphoning off and diversion the funds, fraud or money laundering. Similarly Property disputes these days have intrinsically some criminal colour in form of forgery, cheating and Service matters may also have flavour of corruption involving PC Act. Thus, despite not exactly planning for venturing into a specific area of expertise, I gradually got specialised into these areas. The best reward and motivation to keep on moving in these areas of expertise was the pecuniary benefits and broad and global exposure to working of various Industries such as Cement Industry, Shipping Industry, Oil & Gas Industry, Minning Industry, FMCG Companies, Banking and Non-Banking Institutions, Event Management Companies, Hospitality Companies etc. However, the challenge is obvious, one needs to extensively study and understand working of each Industry so that one have an insight of practical execution of business in such Industry or Sector, secondly since stakes are high in these commercial matters, therefore there is constant pressure to outperform the routine practitioners and one has to keep toiling, traversing and translating the strategies into court room success.
You’ve represented significant industrial houses and corporations in high-stake litigation and arbitration cases. Could you share a specific case or accomplishment that you consider particularly impactful or challenging in your career?
There is not one or two but rather 4-5 cases, each in different domain of law, wherein my legal mettle along with personal traits of being lawyer was put to test. Out of 5, I succeed in three but lost in two but all 5 cases, I consider as most challenging and which left long lasting affect in my career journey. These cases gave me learning for lifetime and helped me to meta morph into a seasoned lawyer. It is difficult to describe the entire experience in this short interview but in hint, I can say that one matter was an arbitration matter against a big Corporate giant of this Country being represented through battery of senior designated lawyers. But as luck could have it, my grit and determination finally prevailed and the Tribunal went by merit and not by the stature of either the Corporate House or the Sr. Counsel. Another matter was a matter against a Head of top Government Institution, who had entangled a female employee in her service matters ostensibly, whereas in reality it was a criminal matter having contour of POSH and other criminal element. This Officer was being defended by a Sr. Counsel, who was from a family of Judiciary and exuded aura and confidence. Though, we had initial success, however his aura prevailed in later part. Finally our persistence paid and fortunately after 4.5 years this person was booked by CBI and taken into custody but not before we had filed several cases before several forums in 3-4 years unshakingly, unperturbed and undeterred by initial setbacks. The third one relates to a case before CCI & COMPAT, which gave me my entry into corporate litigation and again this was example of purely Out of Box thinking, wherein, we took advantage of legal technical loopholes to save 18.5 crores of rupees and to buy time to properly strategise our bankruptcy filling before NCLT, Kolkata. These instances lead me to believe in the famous saying- ‘ A lawyer never looses- either He Wins or He Learns ! ‘
How do you approach the unique challenges presented by different clients and Industries?
The first and foremost thing, which I do, is to understand and identify the core issue/dispute involved in the given case and the mindset of client and his desired goal. Thereafter, I make a fresh & unorthodox approach towards finding all the possible legal remedies available for the client and devise strategies with precision taking holistic view of the matter to suit specific requirement of the client but at the same time ensuring that each step involving the dispute resolution is in sync with the legal requirements. Most of the time it requires – ‘Out of Box thinking’ and Risk taking. At times, it involves working beyond clock hours and travelling to different cities and interacting with people from different walk of life. To have a clear and succinct understanding of an event or case, I meticulously study each transactions or step involved till arising of the dispute and thereafter take a practical overview of working of that Industry or Office to get nuances and peep into intention of the person or parties behind such transaction or dispute. Once I am clear on this, I devise a multi- pronged strategy to tackle the issue effectively and efficiently. In accordance to the strategy, the steps are legally executed to get the intended result. So far it has given me success@85-90%. I do not believe in misleading a client or over stating before a client and therefore adopt a pragmatic approach towards the dispute resolution. I am a firm believer of settling dispute through ADR mechanism especially in commercial disputes and that also makes a client to trust my bonafide. In order to understand financial jargons, nuances and technicalities with more clarity and in order to empower myself with a knowledge, wherein I could not only answer to the Court Room queries but also to Board Room queries, I did Executive Program in Business Finance ( (EPBF)from Indian Institute of Management, Ahmedabad.
Given your rich experience, what advice would you offer to fresh law graduates who are about to embark on their legal careers? Are there specific skills or mindsets you believe are crucial for success in the legal profession?
Rather than advising, I shall prefer to share my experience which itself comprises of experiences of several associates of mine. Here, I would like to mention three things that I have learnt in the process. Firstly, during the initial phase of your career, give most of your time in learning the methodology of doing things, like how are the things being done. Understand the ecosystem in which we work. Learn and understand what is the ecosystem of the District Courts, the High Court, the Tribunal and the Supreme Court. Nobody can learn that ecosystem in such a short span of time therefore you need to have patience and perseverance and an undying attitude for exploring and learning. You need to understand what is registry, what is court master, what is cause list, what is the interplay of various officers in the court, what is the roster, how is filing done in registry, what is the defect curing technique, what is criteria for listing and how are matters listed and more. People think that every day when a case is listed, it is listed for the argument. No, it is not true. On a given day, a matter may be listed only for limited purpose of notice or for limited purpose of arguments or for a limited purpose of compliance. Therefore, we need to understand as to what is required for us to learn during formative years and than learn them effectively.
Secondly, as a law student or young lawyer, you should try to learn things other than the law itself. You need to read and understand polity, history, sociology, economics and finance but not in theoretical sense but the news part or the part of it actively influencing day to day life. You need to read news, you need to read technology. You need to read several other things more than the core law during these formative years.
Thirdly, as a law professional, your connections and relations with people from several walks of life help you in securing cases and to effectively tackle it. Thus you need to forge and curate your relationships and connections with outmost sincerity and caution during these formative years. Even today, I seek guidance and help from my seniors and my cordial relations with them have helped me a lot in advancement of my career.
In crux, I intend to say that litigation is not just about researching or presenting arguments before the Courts. There is some basic homework which as lawyer you do before arguing your case or presenting your case in the Court on a given date. Now those requisite skills cannot be learnt in the law school but only during your exposure with the Court Eco-system. Moot courts can definitely hone your researching and arguing skills but devoted internships and association as Junior Advocate with right mentor/ senior associate and your personal capacity to grasp things by observing and studying can help you take large strides. Mastering your drafting skills, client handling skills, communication skills and system management, makes you a wholesome lawyer. We, as established advocates always look up for competent juniors with good skills and traits. Learning law in the law school and its application in the real life court scenario with efficiency and effectiveness can help you become excellent litigation advocates of tomorrow. Learning the process and procedure is the key.
Devotion, perseverance and consistency along with right approach will make one sail through it. Ultimately, it is one’s own hard work and patience that pays. Keep on learning each day. Even as an established advocate, I still thrive to learn each day.
Your journey reflects a unique blend of legal excellence and entrepreneurship. As a first-generation advocate, how did you decide to carry forward the legacy of your late grandfather, an Honorable District Judge, and establish Amicus Legal Firm and Consultancy LLP?
I am a follower of law and so was my Nanaji, but with a prolonged illness of dementia and then his demise, my Grandfather left me to forego my legal career as my journey. To which I took it as a challenge and A will to serve the nation through the law. This gave me a vision to enact and carry forward the legacy of law through a different medium which included both entrepreneurship and Advocacy. My entrepreneurial spirit craved innovation, a desire to bridge the gap between legal acumen and real-world solutions. It was then that Amicus Legal Firm & Consultancy LLP took shape in 2019, with my Partner Amol Chitravanshi AOR– a firm built on the unwavering principles of legal excellence, infused with the dynamism and client-centricity of a modern consultancy. We registered our offices in Delhi NCR and commenced our journey of Advocacy in Supreme Court litigation and other country courts. Things come up as challenges when you become a First Generation Advocate, but at the same time makes us proud to be going strong at this young age of not even 30 yrs. Each challenge makes us stronger and much more learned than before, so now we become some of the few law firms in the country delivering legal services beyond the courtrooms. AmicusLegal Consultancy LLP isn’t just about winning cases; it’s about forging partnerships with clients, understanding their needs, and crafting custom-tailored solutions. We go beyond legal counsel, offering strategic guidance, risk management expertise, and proactive solutions to navigate the complexities of the legal landscape.
Beyond your legal practice, you’re the Co-Founder and Managing Director of Amicus Legal Firm and Consultancy LLP. What led you to venture into entrepreneurship, and how do you balance your roles as an advocate and a business leader?
It is not wrong to say that the legal profession is not easy for females. There is a hustle every day. During the initial years, I faced a lot of bias from my seniors who through different means let my motivation down. Especially in States like Uttarakhand, UP and Delhi, the mindset of Seniors is not very progressive for Women lawyers, especially those with no background from the same industry. But this did not stop me, this gave me the motivation to have an enterprise of my own. While advocating for clients in a court filled me with purpose, a part of me craved the challenge of building something, of shaping a space where legal expertise could transcend the confines of traditional practice and truly empower clients. This dream came true, when I and my firm’s Co-Founder Amol Chitravanshi Advocate -on- Record (AOR), who was my batch mate in law school, decided to have a law firm of our own. This was a very challenging journey for both of us, as we both do not belong to the family of advocates in fact both-of us were first-generation lawyers but together came up with a goal of a new-generation law firm in India, which was not just stick to court works but aimed in delivering all kind of legal services to the society. In a short span of 4 years we could achieve, make our presence in elite cases across the High Courts and the honorable Supreme Court.
My motivation is my will to deliver the society through law which helps me keep creating a balance in practical approach and legalities in the society. My journey of becoming woman entrepreneur and balancing roles as an Entrepreneur and Advocate could not have been possible without the support of family, close friends, efforts of my Team at the workplace and especially My Partner Adv Amol Chitravanshi, as we worked towards a common goal of uplifting the society and a positive and a constant vision of uplifting the legal industry and giving it a new face. AmicusLegal allows me to extend my impact beyond individual cases, shaping a legal landscape where accessibility, innovation, and client empowerment take centre stage. And that, for me, is the true reward – the satisfaction of building a legacy that extends far beyond the walls of the courtroom.
Being a certified and recognized woman entrepreneur, you’ve achieved certifications from IIM Bangalore and the National Commission for Women. How has your entrepreneurial spirit influenced your approach to practising law, and what challenges have you encountered as a woman entrepreneur in the legal industry?
It was challenging to understand the essentials of growth for women at a workspace, due to a patriarchal society. women, though being talented, have been somehow suppressed over the years. But It was in 2021, luckily I got an opportunity to enrich my expertise when the very first time Indian Institute of Management, Bangalore in collaboration with the National women commission of India conducted A Women’s entrepreneurship Course, in which I was selected on merit and was offered a fully funded course after which I was entitled with the tag of woman entrepreneur by IIMBx. The impact of this course from the Indian Institute of Management Bangalore was crucial for me as a female entrepreneur, I was able to recognise the importance of women entrepreneurs in India not only on the social front but also on the economic front for the country. I was inspired by all the women who were actively participating in different fields which also helped me have a vision of a clear progressive career ahead in life and face different challenges that women go through in their daily lives, but the course helped me enrich my self-belief and confidence. The legal industry, like many others, is not devoid of its gendered challenges. Being a woman entrepreneur in this space has meant navigating. After this, not only did I train women for their entrepreneurship journey but I also awarded them with certification which was of utmost importance to them and their career ahead.
The journey hasn’t been easy, but it has been deeply rewarding. I’ve learned to navigate the intricate dance between advocating for my clients in the courtroom and leading a dynamic legal firm. Through it all, I’ve remained committed to empowering other women entrepreneurs and redefining what it means to be a successful woman in the legal field. This educational qualification also helped me to understand the challenges as a women entrepreneur in India especially in the legal industry where even today there is a lack of professionalism and gender bias when it comes to female advocates, but evolving each day helped me achieve the desired goals over the time and the journey is still on.
Apart from your legal pursuits, you are a national medalist in pistol shooting and a certified mountaineer. How do sports and outdoor activities contribute to your personal and professional life? How has this experience influenced your approach to challenges, both in your professional and personal life?
I have been a believer and promoter of sports all my life. The world of sports and outdoor activities offers me a different terrain for challenge, growth, and a unique perspective on overcoming obstacles. My national medal in pistol shooting and experiences as a certified mountaineer has instilled in me qualities that extend far beyond the physical feats, shaping both my personal and professional life in profound ways. They equip me with the resilience, adaptability, focus, and leadership skills that empower me to navigate the challenges of the legal world with greater confidence and a sharper perspective. They remind me to celebrate the journey, find solace in the stillness, and approach every obstacle with the unwavering spirit of a mountain climber, always aiming for the summit, be it in the courtroom or on the next personal Everest. And in this ongoing journey, the lessons learned on the shooting range and the slopes of the mountains or in any field will forever remain my compass, guiding me towards a future of success, fulfilment, and, most importantly, a relentless pursuit of the next peak, both in the courtroom and in life. Your involvement with Apoorvarambh Foundation and various NGOs showcases your commitment to social causes. Could you share a memorable experience or initiative that had a significant impact on the lives of individuals or communities you’ve worked with
My commitment to social causes finds expression through my collaborations with the Apoorvarambh Foundation and various NGOs, allowing me to use my legal expertise to make a tangible difference in the lives of individuals and communities. One such experience, etched forever in my memory, resonates with the transformative power of law intertwined with social service.
I have been actively involved in Prisoners’ Rights and activism through it. Not just ensuring Mental health and value for life, we also conduct different types of literacy events, entertainment events etc to make them feel connected to life and living. Apart from this, I encountered a community grappling with the aftermath of cybercrime, Child Sexual Offences, Youth Development, and Education etc., Young lives were devastated by both online and offline stalking, financial fraud, and the emotional scars of abuse. Witnessing their despair ignited a fire within me, a determination to utilize my legal knowledge to empower them. We identified cases where individuals had been physically or emotionally traumatized. Under my NGO we undergo various disciplines of education and provide wholesome education for living eg. Mental health precautions, financial security, Hygiene, Adolescent Development, Art and Culture awareness, Career guidance etc. I took the cases pro bono, navigating the complexities of crime legislation and fighting for compensation and accountability against perpetrators. We also conducted awareness sessions and literacy sessions in Rural India, helping them give some value addition to life and empowering individuals to navigate the complexities of the world around them.
One of my such experiences was when a minor girl was sexually assaulted and her Miss-fortune was that her mother was not able to support and fight with her for her justice. It was then that we stood and fought to the best of the US and provided justice to that family and that minor girl. To which, I under Apoorvarambh Foundation NGO have made a short film on Child Sexual Offences which is around the corner to be telecasted soon.
As a legal educationist and awareness trainer, specializing in POCSO and Juvenile Justice, how do you approach educating underprivileged women and children on legal matters, and what motivates you to contribute to their empowerment?
It’s not just about legal knowledge; it’s about fostering a sense of dignity, self-worth, and the belief that they deserve justice. Through education and awareness, I hope to contribute to a society where underprivileged women and children are not just protected by the law, but empowered to claim their rightful place and live lives free from abuse and injustice. As a legal educationist and awareness trainer specializing in POCSO and Juvenile Justice, my approach to educating underprivileged women and children on legal matters is built on understanding and empowerment. I try and simplify complex concepts using local languages, everyday examples, and interactive activities. Storytelling, role-playing, and visuals become powerful tools to demystify laws and empower individuals to recognize their rights. I work closely with NGOs, community leaders, and local authorities to raise awareness, create referral networks, and ensure access to essential legal and psychosocial support services.
My motivation? Witnessing the spark of understanding in a child’s eyes, the newfound confidence in a woman’s voice, or the courage of a survivor seeking justice – these are my rewards. Knowing that my work empowers individuals to navigate complex legal systems, access their rights, and seek redressal fuels my passion to keep doing more.
Your media presence is notable, with appearances on national platforms, national media and news channels.” How do you use these platforms to bring attention to important social issues, and what topics do you find most crucial for public discourse, through being in the legal industry?
The legal industry isn’t just about interpreting statutes and winning cases. It’s a powerful platform for advocating for societal change and championing vulnerable communities. My national media presence has become a valuable tool in this mission, allowing me to amplify crucial social issues and spark actionable conversations. Not just my episodes of “Reality check with Adv Trishla Malik” on Facebook, but my inputs on National Media like Times of India, News18, Amar Ujala, Sahara Samay, Bharat Express etc, gravitate towards areas where access to justice is skewed and public awareness can bridge the gap. I use these platforms to demystify the legal system, making it more approachable and empowering for the public.
Championing ethical practices in the society. The legal profession isn’t immune to ethical lapses. I use my media voice to hold the legal system accountable, highlight issues like corruption or judicial bias, and advocate for reforms that uphold the integrity of the justice system. This is what drives me to keep using my platform as a lawyer and media figure – to ensure that the law doesn’t just serve the privileged few, but becomes a tool for empowerment and a catalyst for positive change for all.
You’ve been recognized with numerous awards, including the Professional Excellence Award by FICCI Ladies Organisation. What achievements are you particularly proud of, and how do these accolades motivate you in your multifaceted career?
Ans. I have been an achiever since a very young age not just in academics but I have been a national medalist in sports and have won multiple awards in all aspects of life. In a profession as demanding and competitive as the legal field, recognition isn’t just an honor; it’s a vital source of fuel for the long journey towards justice. While I’m humbled to receive multiple accolades like the prestigious Uttarakhand State Achiever award, the Women Influence Award by multiple organisations, International Medals, the Professional Excellence Award by FICCI Ladies Organisation etc., true pride lies in the tangible impact my work has on communities and individuals. But foremost, Witnessing the relief and empowerment in the eyes of a client who finally found justice after years of fighting against abuse is a feeling and accolade unmatched. My professional fulfilment doesn’t stem from awards, but from the privilege of witnessing lives transformed and justice served. Every case taken and every case won, every policy reform achieved, every community empowered through legal awareness – these are the real treasures, the true markers of success in a multifaceted legal career.
Having received national recognition and awards for your socio-legal awareness training, what advice do you have for young lawyers aspiring to make a positive impact on society beyond their legal practice?
My national recognition for socio-legal awareness training highlights a crucial truth: a lawyer’s impact can extend far beyond the courtroom. For young lawyers passionate about making a positive change, here are some nuggets of wisdom gleaned from my journey:
Champion a Cause: Find a cause close to your heart, something that ignites your passion and compels you to act. Immerse yourself in the issue, connect with grassroots organizations, and understand the legal landscape surrounding it.
Advocate Beyond the Courtroom: Public education is key to driving societal change. Organize workshops, participate in panel discussions, or write articles raising awareness about your chosen cause. Use your legal knowledge to break down complex issues into digestible chunks for the public, empowering them to advocate for themselves and their communities.
Practice Self-Care: Advocacy can be a demanding journey. Prioritise your well-being by setting boundaries, managing stress, and seeking support from your network. Remember, a burnt-out advocate cannot create sustainable change.
Celebrate Small Wins: Don’t wait for landmark victories to celebrate. Acknowledge the incremental progress, the lives touched, and the voices amplified. Every step you take, every positive change you achieve, is a testament to your commitment to making a difference.
Can you tell us about your journey and how you ended up pursuing a career in law? What motivated you to choose this profession, and did you always envision yourself working in diverse areas of law?
The first time I studied the Constitution in school, I was amazed that a single ‘document’ defined our nation, government, laws, freedoms, rights, duties, everything. This got me very interested in the law. As I grew up, becoming a litigator became my default option. Although I was open to exploring other options, nothing else has ever appealed to me.
After graduating from law school, I was keen on exploring diverse areas of law. In the first few years of my profession, I decided to join law firms that would give me opportunities in as many areas of law as possible. Litigators are always advised to start out at the trial court. So, I joined a firm where I was part of a team handling civil and criminal matters at the trail court.
In the first five odd years of my career, I was able to gain experience in civil litigation, criminal litigation, arbitrations, regulatory litigation, company litigation, intellectual property matters, consumer matters, tax matters etc. Working in diverse fields in the initial years kept me motivated and gave me the confidence to take on any kind of matter. Even now, having a diverse portfolio of work not only keeps me motivated and excited but also enables me to provide clients with comprehensive and practical advice.
With over 15 years of experience in civil and commercial litigation, arbitrations, regulatory litigation, and criminal litigation, you’ve had a rich and varied career. What would you say has had the most impact on your professional growth?
The most memorable and impactful experience for me has been working with excellent seniors, colleagues, and clients over the years. Any complex litigation is always a team effort. Litigation teams mostly work long hours in close quarters. They see each other’s good sides and bad. They challenge and push each other every day. This team dynamic is crucial for every litigator and perhaps plays the most important part in forging your skills.
Your work seems to span across numerous sectors, from Infrastructure & Real Estate to Banking & Finance to Information Technology. How do you manage to stay well-versed in such diverse areas of law and provide effective representation to clients in each domain?
It is not only important to identify the areas of law that interest you, but also the areas of law that you have an aptitude for. Once you identify these areas, you need to dedicate some study time every day. I feel that the best way to understand an unfamiliar area of law is to read judgments. I try and read every judgment passed by the Delhi High Court and the Supreme Court in the areas of law that I practice in. It takes a lot of time and discipline, but the insights that you gain are invaluable. Other than that, there are so many good resources to keep yourself updated these days. It is also crucial to meet your clients and other experts in the field and understand the latest developments and issues being faced by them.
Arbitrations seem to be a prominent part of your practice. Could you walk us through some of the challenges in handling arbitrations and how you successfully navigate them?
One of the major reasons that parties choose arbitration is to free themselves from the procedural rigors of civil procedure. The irony is that arbitration procedures have become more and more complex and unpredictable with time while civil procedure is becoming more and more streamlined. The law of arbitration is ever evolving, and legal positions flip every now and then. The recent judgments on Stamp Duty and Arbitration Agreements are a case in point. Therefore, it is very important for an arbitration lawyer to be updated on the present legal position and to anticipate future issues. Failure to do so can land your client in endless procedural hurdles which can take years to resolve.
Apart from procedural issues, arbitrations are very fact intensive. For instance, high-stake infrastructure arbitrations normally relate to projects that have taken three to five years to execute. These arbitrations usually involve some technical and scientific issues. There is usually an immense amount of correspondence, records may be scattered, or unavailable, key personnel may have left and so on. Therefore, it is very important for an arbitration lawyer to master the facts to a greater degree than may be required in other proceedings. You need to put yourself in your client’s position and understand the situation that prevailed on the ground. Unless you do this, you cannot present the facts in perspective and ultimately, you will find it difficult to build upon your legal submissions.
You’ve also represented clients in proceedings under the Insolvency and Bankruptcy Code. How do you approach these cases?
The IBC is certainly a work in progress and there are several challenges for every stakeholder. Promotors and Corporate Debtors would say that the law is draconian; Financial Creditors would say that they are frustrated with significant costs, delays, and haircuts; Operational Creditors would say that their interests are not adequately protected; Resolution Applicants would say that they do not get the clean slate that they paid for; the Government and Regulators would say that their claims are being undermined; the Tribunals would say that they are flooded with thousands of petitions and do not have the infrastructure they need.
While representing clients in IBC matters, your approach depends on the needs of your client. When representing Creditors, your goal is to get the petition admitted expeditiously. On the other hand, when representing Debtors, your goal is to oppose the admission of the petition or at least provide your client some time or leverage to be able to negotiate a favorable settlement. Representing Creditors and Debtors has its own challenges, but like any litigation, implementing a winning strategy requires preparation and experience.
Representing clients in commercial disputes is undoubtedly demanding. What does it take to be a good commercial disputes lawyer?
Commercial disputes are very aggressively litigated because of the financial stake involved. When the stakes are high, there is absolutely no scope for any weakness or mistakes. Your pleadings and arguments need to be perfect and precise. Achieving this level of perfection is not easy unless you are willing to work towards it. To handle commercial disputes effectively, you need to have a certain degree of business acumen and a good understanding of the industry. Apart from this, you need to have a strong grasp of contract law and procedural law. Your is not only to resolve the dispute, but to do so as effectively and efficiently as possible.
Besides litigation, you have extensive experience in advisory work, providing opinions on commercial contracts, regulatory matters, environmental protection, and more. How do you balance the responsibilities of advisory work with the demands of litigation?
Balancing litigation and advisory can be challenging at times, but both complement each other. I believe that you can give your clients better advice if you have experience of litigating similar issues in court. Similarly, you can represent your clients better in court if you have been part of the transaction at the implementation stage. For instance, while reviewing a contract, a litigator can provide a new perspective on liquidated damages clauses, limitation of liability clauses, non-compete clauses, dispute resolution clauses and so on. Similarly, if you have advised your client when the contract was being negotiated, you have a better understanding of the transaction and the intent of the parties and can provide better representation should the matter go into litigation.
In your secondments with GE India and Wrigley India, you took on in-house roles. How did those experiences differ from working in a law firm, and what insights did you gain from those roles?
There is a world of a difference between working in a law firm and working in-house. The expectations and requirements are very different. Both have their own advantages and disadvantages. To succeed in either role, you require the same basic legal skills, but you apply these skills very differently. The common thread is that, in both cases, your job is to protect the interests of your client. When you are in-house, you have only one client and when you are working in a law firm you have multiple clients. If you understand this, you can easily transition from one role to the other.
Working in-house for some time in the early parts of my career gave me great insights into what in-house legal teams expect from their external counsels. I also understood the day-to-day challenges that in-house legal teams face. This is something that many external counsels do not even consider. At the end of the day, we are providing a service to our clients and understanding their challenges and expectations is crucial.
As an accomplished professional with years of experience, what advice would you give to fresh law graduates who are just starting their careers in the legal field?
The cliché advice about hard work and constant learning holds true without exception. Apart from this, fresh graduates should seek out good mentors and actively build a strong professional network.
Could you please walk us through how you initially decided to pursue a career in law, and what motivated you to specialize in Intellectual Property (IP) Litigation?
As a first-generation lawyer, I leaned heavily on mentors to guide my path. Initially, my academic inclination was towards science during my 11th and 12th standards. However, an unexpected meeting with a seasoned lawyer (who turned out to be my first mentor in the field) at a family gathering shifted my perspective. He illuminated me on the vast horizons and multifaceted opportunities that were offered by the legal profession (beyond its cliché portrayal in popular media).
While law school introduced me to a plethora of intriguing subjects, it was Intellectual Property (IP) that resonated the most with me. A defining moment came during an internship when a senior partner posed a thought-provoking question: “Why specialize in IP?” My response: “If it is not new or novel, it is not IP and if something is new or novel on every turn, it is always interesting and worth specializing in”.
Further fuelling my interest were dedicated professors, particularly in IP and CPC, who recognized and nurtured my enthusiasm. Their encouragement and insights solidified my decision to specialize in IP Litigation.
Your career has taken you through notable firms like Remfry & Sagar, Khurana & Khurana, and now Shardul Amarchand Mangaldas. Could you share the pivotal moments and experiences that shaped your journey in the field of IP law?
Every step in my career, from drafting my first legal notice to my first court appearance, has been a significant learning opportunity. One particularly memorable matter involved a client alerting us about an imminent shipment of counterfeit goods destined for India within just two days. The urgency of the situation warranted immediate actions: identifying the shipment, liaising with Indian Customs offices, and swiftly filing a lawsuit seeking injunctive relief in Court. Those intense 48 hours, while challenging, imparted invaluable lessons in handling time-sensitive IP matters.
Working at a full-service law firm like Shardul Amarchand Mangaldas has further enriched my professional journey by providing me an opportunity to work and interact with experts from diverse legal domains. This experience has further honed my ability to perceive and cater to client’s expectations from a holistic standpoint.
Having handled diverse aspects of IP, from drafting pleadings to appearing before various courts and tribunals, what aspects of your work do you find most challenging and rewarding in the realm of IP litigation?
Legal profession is a continuous journey filled with multiple learning opportunities. Reflecting on my early internship days, I recall discovering quicker methods to navigate court files during time-sensitive situations. Drafting intricate pleadings in complex cases was initially daunting during my early professional years. I vividly remember the apprehension of my first solo court appearance; the nerves were palpable. However, with each challenge encountered, I recognized them as important learning milestones that made me the lawyer I am.
In the realm of litigation, the most rewarding moment is undoubtedly when a favourable order is pronounced. All the hard work and preparation culminating in a successful result is profoundly gratifying.
Your profile mentions engagement in business development activities, including client meetings and conferences. How do these activities contribute to your professional growth, and what role do they play in enhancing your practice in IP litigation?
Engaging directly with clients through meetings and conferences is fundamental in any client-centric profession. It’s essential to grasp the intricacies of a client’s business, their specific needs and to accordingly offer tailored solutions. Through these interactions, one can gain deeper insights into the challenges clients face, especially in IP disputes.
For example, while some clients might prefer a more diplomatic approach to resolve IP disputes through legal notices or mediations, others might seek immediate legal action to safeguard their IP, perhaps on account of the potential impact on their business. By actively participating in such engagements, one can better align their strategies and advisory to suit the unique requirements and preferences of each client, ensuring a more effective and personalized approach to IP disputes.
You’ve conducted training sessions for clients on IP laws. Could you elaborate on the importance of client education in the field of IP and share any specific challenges you’ve encountered in helping clients navigate intellectual property issues?
Often, the primary focus of clients is on business growth and revenue generation, sometimes overlooking the critical aspects of IP protection. For instance, we have often seen clients approach us to enforce their design registration, only to later discover that they’ve been using the design for years prior to filing the design application. In such cases, we have to inform them that their design registration might be vulnerable for cancellation due to prior self-disclosure. In these situations, design registration certificates may be nothing more than a toothless paper.
This underscores the vital role of client education. By proactively educating clients about the nuances of IP and the associated timelines, one can prevent potential pitfalls. It’s essential for businesses to recognize that robust IP protection is integral to their long-term success.
You’ve appeared before various specialized tribunals and high courts in India. How does your approach differ when dealing with IP matters in these forums compared to more traditional court settings, and what skills do you consider crucial for success in such specialized areas?
In specialized IP forums, there’s a heightened awareness and appreciation for the technicalities revolving around the field of IP, which often results in more streamlined communication and understanding of complex issues. This environment is conducive for IP practitioners, making it important for them to remain updated with the latest developments in the IP landscape. Unlike traditional court settings, specialized forums demand a deep understanding and familiarity with both domestic and international IP trends. Therefore, staying abreast of advancements in IP not only enhances an IP lawyer’s credibility but also equips them to leverage the unique opportunities presented by these specialized forums.
Your academic achievements include gold medals, debate/moot wins, and publications. How has your academic background contributed to your success in the legal profession, particularly in the specialized field of IP law?
During my time in law school, every academic experience was crucial for learning skills that are requisite for becoming a successful lawyer. Participating in debates and challenging moot court sessions didn’t just help me in honing my oratory skills but also taught me how to work in a team. On the other hand, writing research papers on interesting IP topics deepened my understanding of the subject at a jurisprudential level.
While I didn’t realise it then, each activity wasn’t just an academic exercise or an assignment, it was a step towards understanding the legal world that was awaiting after 5 years of law school.
Drawing from your experiences, what advice would you like to share with law graduates who are just beginning their careers, especially those interested in pursuing a specialization in IP law? Are there any lessons or insights you wish you had known when you started your journey?
Of late, IP practice has become more lucrative and is attracting numerous law graduates to specialize in this domain. While the rewards of this practice are undeniable, I believe it is important for law students and young professionals to determine if the subject truly resonates with them. Engaging in IP internships or dedicating time to study and write about IP can offer some clarity in this regard.
Reflecting on my early days in the IP practice, I recall focusing all my energy in understanding the developments in and around the field of IP. While this approach enhanced my understanding of the subject, I inadvertently overlooked developments in fields outside of IP. Over time, I realized the value of maintaining a balanced perspective, acknowledging that while specialization requires depth, a holistic understanding of law across domains is invaluable.
We are extremely delighted to have you with us for this interview. Can you please introduce yourself, highlighting your journey from the establishment of AKS Law Associates in 1999 to becoming a prominent figure in the Indian legal fraternity?
I was in the computer field back in the mid-nineties. Back then, I used to occasionally accompany my folks to meet with lawyers, either seeking advice or to engage them in a matter. It was a learning curve, to understand the complexity of law and/or that it was near to impossible to have a clear vision of the road ahead. So, on the one side, I was professionally engaged in the computer field wherein we were promising solutions for business enterprises with a certain amount of predictability, efficiency and transparency whereas, the real-life legal problems had the dusty road ahead. Intrigued, I studied law. Fascinated by the subject of law and its complexity, I started my independent legal practice after training for about a year under my senior. For the first 10 years or so, I was predominantly engaged in chamber practice by advising clients in general corporate law and especially in Real Estate law. After 2009, I started attending Courts regularly and have been conducting matters before courts and tribunals across India. I have had the good fortune of appearing before the Supreme Court of India. There have been interesting cases addressed by me before International Arbitration Tribunals and the High Courts of Delhi, Bangalore and Chennai. As far as possible, I take instructions directly from the client and 9.9999 on 10, do not engage any Senior Counsel. I insist that my young colleagues in office must conduct a trial/argue a matter before the High Court. As far as possible practically, adjournment is not an option in our office. We have a small practice and keep a close connection with our clients. If we do not meet the client’s expectations, we own up to our shortcomings and do not pass the buck. What we try to do, in our first meet which is on the house, is to give the client a road map of their case’s journey to set expectations.
Your areas of practice range from international arbitration to corporate advisory. How do you navigate the diverse challenges posed by different legal domains, and what aspects of your practice do you find most fulfilling?
Every case is unique. I do not take up any matters concerning matrimonial disputes, service matters, direct and indirect tax. A client wants to hear the problem first and the solution thereafter, especially when it comes to corporate advisory in agreements. Due to our varied experiences in litigation, we can quickly identify the potholes and crossroads in an agreement and the challenges that may come up. Clients weigh in on our experiences in litigation to assist them in identifying clauses in an agreement that may be problematic and also offer solutions when such problems do arise. As we work very closely with clients and the owners/ top management we have some understanding of their businesses and what they expect out of a dispute. Once we have clarity as to what is a client’s expectation, then to advise them on the legitimacy of their expectations or what would be the best outcomes is quite straightforward. We do not take up a case that we do not feel that we can address. The broad spectrum of cases we take up is because we are confident that we can address the issue in the matter. This is backed by painstaking research and understanding as to what could be the possible outcomes. If it’s an untrodden field, we take a reasonable lead time and tell the client that we lack prior experience in the matter. Quite often, clients come to us in areas we have never worked with to consider if we would approach the matter differently and many a time this has worked well for the client.
Your commitment to pro bono cases and public interest litigation is commendable. What drives your passion for social justice, and Could you share a memorable experience where your legal expertise made a significant impact on social justice or community welfare?
India is a land of plenty of everything. For over a decade, I have chosen to provide free legal services for economically weaker persons and work towards creating an efficient legal structure in solid-waste management. There are many anonymous Indians who do a lot, yet they do not find a place on the newsfeed and they are not interested either. When we take on a pro bono case, the client gets equal treatment as a paid client. I believe that every legal professional must extend themselves to the community/ persons who need them the most. When you go and have a meal with a person who has had a legal closure of their case and you have had a small role in it, the satisfaction you get is much more than being paid by a corporate. I had a client who came to me with a matter where he had signed an agreement at terms that were patently unfavourable to him and he was forced to sign up for a song, he was in financially difficult circumstances and there was a good possibility that his land was going away. After being turned down by many prominent lawyers, he came to me. I confessed that I had no prior experience in dealing with the matter but I would put in an effort if he agreed. The matter was argued by me successfully from the Trial Court up to the Supreme Court and the client ended up with a fortune.
Your profile reflects a multifaceted personality with diverse interests such as equestrian sports, chess, running, yoga, and continuing education. How do these passions contribute to your life?
You have one life, live it and enjoy it to the fullest! I do enjoy exploring my mind and my fears. Many of my decisions have been taken after a long ride with my horse, Ziggy. The best place to be in the world is on horseback… ride one to know it. Playing chess at school helped me to be patient and analyse people’s moves. Chess is such a challenging game and no two games of chess or players are the same. I tried to be fit and I started yoga to experience my inner and external journey of mind, body and soul, with my teachers at the Iyengar school. Learning is a lifelong process and learning for me is to improve my mental gym.
Upholding the highest ethical standards is a hallmark of your practice. How do you ensure transparency for clients and fairness to opponents while navigating complex legal matters?
Character must not change. You might get a good reputation if you win many cases, which may not be true if you lose many. It’s about being honest to yourself and respecting yourself by asking what would you want as a client, opponent or colleague for that matter. I would always be ready to apologize to anyone if I have made a mistake or hurt someone. Etiquette to your client opponent and colleagues is not limited to good language skills, it’s about being clear and laying all cards on the table. This helps you to have a committed client and respect from your opponent and colleagues. It is very important to note that while you may not be aware, others observe you and learn from your good and bad. Therefore, it does not cost anything to be a good human being, so why not?
Your legal outreach initiative focuses on creating legal awareness and education in local communities. What inspired you to take up this initiative, and how do you see it making a difference in the lives of people?
Many decisions are because you do not know your rights. We spend time educating and creating legal awareness in communities to enhance people’s knowledge about their rights which would help them in making decisions. Some of the most basic legally binding decisions that stare you in the face, are because you did not know better. I have seen this at home. As we come from an army background, going to lawyers was not naturally a done thing unlike how businessmen utilise the services. My folks have had to suffer serious hardships because they were not informed of their legal rights. This has always been in the back of my mind. Therefore, as promised early in my career as a lawyer, I have always been engaged in legal awareness with communities, senior citizens and lonely parents.
You actively mentor younger lawyers to expand access to legal services. How do you approach mentorship, and what advice do you offer to aspiring lawyers entering the legal profession?
I refer to all lawyers as colleagues. Once a lawyer has a license to practice we are all equal. The same lawyer younger in age may turn out to be a judge before whom we have to appear and say ‘M’lord’. That’s the most interesting part of the legal profession, there are no limits as to what you can achieve. It is only dependent on you. If you want to be a paper pusher or adjournment lawyer – you can. Or, if you want to be a Palkhiwala – you can. I spend and invest a lot of my time with my colleagues, running through their cases and preparing them for the matter by reviewing drafts, and agreeing on approaches for trial or final hearing. This helps them to be confident as they are well prepared. My only request to them is to do the same for their colleagues.
What advice would you offer to the coming generation of lawyers, considering the evolving landscape of legal practice and the societal challenges we face? Could you share a personal or professional mantra that has guided you throughout your career and continues to inspire your work at AKS Law Associates?
The legal landscape is changing, it has increasingly no place for paper pushers or adjournment lawyers. The young, dynamic and hardworking professionals are dominating the field as either lawyers or judges. Technology is playing a larger role than ever. International arbitration is now becoming commonplace. If you want to find your niche and grow that practice, do it early. Have a general broader practice so that you can have an ear to the ground and earn a steady income and at the same time focus on growing your niche. Small is big! Clients want your time and they are willing to pay for it so long as you deliver. You don’t need a fancy name to your visiting card or a fancy office to start with; you need to focus on understanding how to resolve the client’s issue and after that it is a home run.
Mariana, we are delighted to have you for this interview. To start, could you please introduce yourself, providing a glimpse into your professional journey and the factors that led you to specialize in investment arbitration and cross-border litigation?
It had been my dream to become an arbitration lawyer since university. I am grateful to my professor at Kyiv-Mohyla Academy, Dr. Lyubov Logush, for raising my interest in arbitration. My path was not always smooth. During the first two years after graduating from Kyiv-Mohyla Academy I worked as a journalist and in parallel was doing my LL.M in International Dispute Resolution at Humboldt University of Berlin. Only afterwards I managed to start practicing arbitration in Ukraine. For this, I am grateful to Prof. Dr. Gerhard Wagner as the university not only accepted me to the programme but also granted me a tuition fee waiver without which I would not have been able to pursue my studies. It was very difficult to obtain any scholarship in Ukraine as Russia had just started its war of aggression against Ukraine in 2014 and Ukrainian scholarship funds were focused on priority development areas for Ukraine. During my studies, I always planned to come back home and practice arbitration in Kyiv.
Your experience includes significant roles at reputable firms like Linklaters, Avellum, and Kinstellar. Can you share some key moments or cases that have shaped your career as a foreign lawyer, particularly in the realm of international dispute resolution?
When I came back to Ukraine in 2016, I applied to two dispute resolution vacancies for junior associate positions in two international firms. One of those firms – Kinstellar – which had just opened its office in Kyiv believed in me and took me on board. It was the beginning of my arbitration career. For the next, roughly 5 years, I worked on various commercial arbitration and cross-border litigation projects involving Ukrainian elements, culminating in my first cross-examination of witnesses before the LCIA tribunal at the remote hearing in 2020. After my boss left Kinstellar in 2021, I left after him to be able to assist the client going forward.
On the first day, when I joined Avellum, the tribunal rendered a 250-pages award in that matter ruling in our favour. Avellum added investment arbitrations to my CV. I am very proud of the opportunity to work for the Ukrainian government in those arbitrations in the months preceding the war and afterwards.
When the war started, many Ukrainian law firms took drastic measures to ensure that the firms would stay afloat. This was a key reason why I applied for a part-time job in Linklaters Warsaw in July 2022. I had been working at two jobs until October 2023. At present, I work only for Linklaters focusing primarily on business development and pro bono activities in the areas of international arbitration and cross-border litigation.
Having represented clients in various jurisdictions, including Ukraine, Cyprus, Belize, France, Liechtenstein, Switzerland, and the UK, how do you navigate the complexities of cross-border disputes? Are there unique challenges that arise, and how do you address them?
International arbitrations and cross-border litigations might be incredibly challenging, especially if a counterparty is not acting in good faith, falsifies documents, and abuses its rights. Furthermore, these projects may take years. One of my projects lasted for seven years and one of its “branches” still continues. It takes time to get to the truth and, therefore, it is important to stay patient, not to give up when you fail and focus on the end game. With various parallel proceedings, sooner or later, the untruthful counterparty always makes a mistake. So it is very important to keep an eye on various developments happening in other proceedings, keep your position consistent and straight-forward and, when the time comes, use the inconsistencies in the other party’s case to your advantage. As my former colleague once told me and I continue repeating this to others “This is a long run”, so one needs to be prepared for everything, including, as it turned out, COVID and war. This is not a resilience they teach at school or university.
In your current role at Linklaters, you’re actively involved, among other things, in business development and pro bono assistance. Please elaborate.
Both during my last year at Avellum and now at Linklaters, I spend more time than usual on business development and pro bono activities. When the war started and especially before the Kyiv region was liberated, there were days when I would not receive a single email to my email box, which was frightening. The situation improved towards the end of 2022 and 2023 was very active again. At the same time, it was and remains clear that it is not sufficient to focus exclusively on billable projects. More needs to be done for the community. I am very proud of certain pro bono projects I have had a chance to pursue since February 2022, including collecting evidence of russia’s war crimes in Ukraine, suspending russia’s membership in the Financial Action Task Force, assisting Gateway Ukraine with its activities aiming to boost investment in Ukraine, helping Ukrainian refugees and so forth. On the business development side, it is great that many international firms worldwide set up Ukrainian desks in anticipation of Ukraine’s victory and seek to strengthen their relationship with the Ukrainian market. I am happy to facilitate this process.
Your publications cover a range of topics, from legal professional privilege to sham agreements. What drives your interest in legal writing, and how do you balance this with your demanding professional responsibilities?
Unlike other lawyers, I do like writing. As I mentioned, I worked as a journalist for a few years in 2015-2016. My primary task was to choose content and prepare it for Kyiv Post’s supplement, Legal Quarterly. I also helped fact-check Panama Papers for Organized Crime and Corruption Reporting Project (OCCRP). As Ukraine was undergoing major reforms in 2015, it was very interesting to follow this process by interviewing the high-ranking Ukrainian officials in charge of those reforms.
Frankly, I never understood senior lawyers and partners who make their associates write articles for them. As a junior and after seven years as a managing associate I always wrote articles on my own based on the experience I obtained in arbitrations and cross-border litigations. This is why my publications cover a broad range of topics.
Having interned at Wegnerpartner and the German Institution of Arbitration, how did these experiences contribute to your understanding of international arbitration, and what cultural insights did you gain?
Those internships, which were part of my master programme at Humboldt University, cemented my belief that I want to work in the area of arbitration. I am grateful to Korinna von Trotha, the former head of Berlin office of German Institution of Arbitration (DIS), and my professor, Dr. Adrian Müller-Helle, the partner at Wegnerpartner, for giving me an opportunity to become acquainted with arbitration from institutional and counsel perspectives during my studies. Of course, there are differences between Ukrainian and German approaches to arbitration, but, in my view, they are minor.
Juggling a demanding legal career and coaching moot court competitions must require a delicate balance. How do you manage your time effectively, ensuring success both in your professional and coaching endeavours?
Indeed it is very demanding and challenging. Last time, I acted as a coach in 2019-2020. Overall, I coached various moots for six years. I was heartbroken when my team did not go to Washington in 2020 to compete in Jessup due to COVID-19. This year, I advise the Kyiv-Mohyla Vis Moot team and plan to arbitrate the moot in Vienna. It is still time-consuming, but much less than coaching. Despite various burdens that come with coaching, I treat this as a community investment. I believe that students deserve to have good mentorship and I am proud that students I coached now also act as coaches and succeed in their careers.
Away from the legal arena, what are your favourite hobbies or activities? How do you unwind and recharge outside of the legal world?
At first, I was focused only at work and moots, but then it became clear that it could not continue that way. I am passionate about sports – gym, swimming, hiking, cycling – and languages. Unfortunately, in my case, learning each language requires a lot of time and effort, but I am happy I am slowly progressing and hopefully, soon I will be able to say that I speak five languages – Ukrainian, English, Russian (unfortunately), German and Polish. And I assure you it will not be the end of my language journey.
Given your journey from being a junior associate to your current role, what advice would you give to young professionals aspiring to build a successful career in international dispute resolution and foreign law practice?
I would advise you to follow your passion. If you love arbitration, certainly do it. But don’t have any illusions. Legal world is extremely demanding and competitive; the world we live in is extremely challenging and unpredictable; arbitration projects are getting only more complex; co-counsels and clients are not always easy to deal with. Make sure you realise that when you start your career. And when you do – make sure you remain the best version of yourself down that road.
