Super Lawyer

Category: Partners, General Counsels and Senior Advocates

  • Prasanth V.G., Partner, J. Sagar Associates, on his time in NUJS, and his litigation experience

    Prasanth V.G., Partner, J. Sagar Associates, on his time in NUJS, and his litigation experience

    Prasanth V.G. graduated from WBNUJS, Kolkata in 2005 and thereafter joined Delhi office of Paras Kuhad and Associates. He is currently a Partner at J. Sagar Associates, Bangalore. He primarily specialises in dispute resolution and has an experience for twelve years. He has been handling matters relating to Company Contracts, Specific Relief, Intellectual Property, Banking, Infrastructure, Energy, Consumer Protection, Infrastructure and Arbitration. He has a vast experience in the drafting of pleadings, applications and evidence briefing for several counsels in numerous matters, and has also done many arguments including both final and interim arguments at various fora.  

    . In this interview he talks to us about:

    • His law school life at WBNJUS, Kolkata 
    • His experience of a litigation lawyer at a firm
    • The essentials of a good commercial litigation lawyer

    Given that most of our readers are law students and young lawyers, how will you introduce yourself to them? 

    I will not shamelessly claim that I am a “Super Lawyer”, but I am certainly one who constantly dreams of being a “Super Lawyer” whom society looks up to. I am a Partner at the Bangalore office of J. Sagar Associates and my area of work is dispute resolution.  I graduated from the first batch of NUJS, Kolkata in 2005 and started my career at the Delhi office of Paras Kuhad and Associates in 2005. In 2010 I shifted to Bangalore and worked for a short period of ten months at KLaw. In April 2011 I joined JSA Bangalore and I have been here since then. My father’s father and my mother’s great grandfather were lawyers, but both of them had passed away much before I was born and therefore I cannot say that I am from a family of lawyers.

     

    How was your experience at NUJS?

    To be frank, I had never before come across in my life an ambiance as fiercely competitive as was present at NUJS. The first batch of NUJS was a unique pack of some of the most gifted brains and talents. The levels of competition we had were naturally very intense. The fact that we were guided by a personality as towering as Dr. Madhava Menon, who had the unique ability to inspire his students to always dream high and strive, was the most remarkable feature of our NUJS life. He would constantly motivate all of us to very deeply believe that anything less than excellence is self-derogatory. I feel truly blessed to have studied law as a part of the first batch of NUJS, which had tremendous levels of ambition and zeal and was constantly very high on energy and drive.

    However, one tough question that my senior partner recently asked me was whether in the last twelve years anyone from our batch has really become a legend for his or her age. I found it very difficult to answer. Everyone is working at decent designations to keep their pride happy and earning decently to keep their families happy, but whether that is all the NUJS dream was, is a soul-searching question. Hopefully, I will have a clearer and happier answer after the next twelve to fifteen years. One may take until the age of 35 to settle down, but if he does not have the big break between 35 years and 50 years, one may rather reconcile that it was all for the making of just another office-goer. The hair has already started the tendency of greying here and there.

     

    What were your areas of interest in law school?

    Amongst the various academic subjects, I had maximum interest in Constitutional and administrative laws. I also deeply enjoyed the laws of contract, specific relief, property, statutory interpretation, etc. Preparations for and participation in both internal and external moot courts was considered to be a very important exercise by our whole batch. I also had my share of regular mooting experiences in those five years, including representing India at the Stetson moot court at Florida. Exploring and re-exploring the city of Calcutta on every Wednesday, which used to be the weekly holiday, was one of the most joyous part of our life. NUJS life was the first phase in my life which introduced me to a truly national ambiance. It was a remarkable experience getting to know and making friends with the peer coming from various different cultures and sensibilities across the country. All these were matters of great excitement at the impressionable age.

     

    Can you recall a few interesting instances in your litigation career?

    I will first answer the question on preparation. More important than how I routinely prepare, is how I think one ought to prepare. I am therefore making a general analysis and not any self-proclamation. One message I learnt from the great masters I had the occasion to meet or work with, is that every court appearance, however small or big, must be treated as a break by a litigation lawyer. It always helps to prepare for a matter beyond your brief for any given day’s appearance. Trying to put a lot more effort into every matter than what may be immediately required to attend to it, will over a period of time, make you very resourceful.

    While in my initial days at PKA Delhi, I was given a lot of exposure in DRT and DRAT matters. One set of matters that Mr. Kuhad made me in charge of was a series of cases filed by various banks and financial institutions against a pharmaceutical company, which was our client. I still remember the strenuous manner in which I went about labouring to put together the written statements and various interim applications on behalf of the company, trying to bring out some defence or the other in each matter, which otherwise appeared to be very open and shut against our client. It was a lot of learning on the job which gave the conviction that no matter can be given up as defenseless, if you are willing to go into the depths of documents and do some creative work at linking or de-linking ideas and points.

    Another Delhi matter which stands out in memory is an international arbitration which went on for about five years, in which we were representing an American company. What makes it memorable is the long days and nights spent reading through, deciphering and connecting thousands of pages of disorderly papers which used to come in heavy cartons from Dallas. There were several note books full of hand-written notes which I made while trying to organize the defences in the matter, trying to frame questions for cross examination, etc. We eventually lost the matter, but it was a rewarding experience for one’s faculties to go through the grill it demanded at a very early stage of career.

    Another interesting memory is that of a partition suit before the Delhi High Court. We were representing the Plaintiffs. We briefed Mr. Arun Jaitley for the first hearing and he got us an ex-parte order of appointment of a local commissioner to inspect and make an inventory of extremely valuable family heirloom items including gold, silver, diamonds, ruby, paintings, carpets etc., which according to our side, had been hidden by the Defendants inside the family house in Kolkata. I flew along with the local commissioner to Kolkata with the order and we went to the concerned premises the next morning along with the local police. The events which took place at the premises were nothing less than dramatic. After a lot of initial resistance and thereafter reluctant cooperation, the Defendants insisted that there was no express order to forcefully open the locked safes and almirahs. So I flew back to Delhi that evening while the local commissioner stayed over in Kolkata. The next morning we again mentioned and brought up the matter before the Delhi High Court and got a specific order to open all the safes and almirahs. With that order, I again flew back to Kolkata that night and we again went to the premises the next morning to get it enforced. While I do not want to go into the details, since both parties thereafter amicably settled the matter, it was a unique on-the-floor experience which stands out in memory even now.

    A more recent interesting episode was arguing on behalf of a sugar manufacturing company against local sugarcane farmers of a village before the Deputy Commissioner, Bellary. The farmers were refusing to provide sugarcane to the factory due to the alleged arrears in the payments of the previous sugar seasons. I had to argue that under the law all the farmers falling within the reserved area necessarily had to supply the cane to my client, irrespective of any past dues, for which they had already invoked the recovery mechanism. The farmers were led by the local MLA and were also represented by their lawyer. Our side had already made a statement against the intentions of the local MLA before the Karnataka High Court in a related matter and that had got reported in the newspapers before my visit to the village to argue the matter. When I reached there with the company representatives, I was amazed to see that a huge community hall was reserved for the hearing and about 300 farmers had gathered and the atmosphere was volatile. The local MLA met us as we were entering the building and started shouting at the company representatives. There were only a few policemen and they could not have handled the situation if the mass had taken the law into hands. The arguments were like making public speeches since that had to be made from the stage before the full crowd using the microphones. I was reminded of my school and college debating and mooting days. When I started arguing in English, the crowd started shouting that I should argue only in Kannada. The Deputy Commissioner who was a very dynamic young IAS officer suddenly took complete charge of the situation and demanded that the crowd shall not protest since I was not very fluent in Kannada. There were detailed arguments and counter-arguments between me and the farmers’ lawyer and the crowd patiently heard everything. The MLA also respected the fact that legal arguments under the Sugarcane Control Order and Essential Commodities Act were going on and remained silent watching the whole proceedings from the front row. Once the hearing was over, the crowd started getting agitated again, demanding that the order should be pronounced immediately. Many people came forward and started to stage a gherao, when the policemen came forward to make way for the Deputy Commissioner. In the process, we also made our way out and left for the hotel.

    There are many other interesting episodes I can narrate, but I am stopping here as this answer has already become very lengthy.

     

    How did you face the work pressure?

    In a way, everything in the profession of law, and not merely being in law firms, can be demanding. But I will always say with the fullest pride and conviction that JSA is a bliss.

    There are two very helpful ways to handle pressures in this profession:

    Firstly, you should try to know in detail each matter you handle. Unwilling or unenthusiastic participation without trying to be on the top of everything in a matter can make the situation very painful. Please also understand that you cannot mentally dislike or fight anything and then conquer it. You can conquer something only by most genuinely loving it. Comfort and ease are directly proportionate to your familiarity with the matter at hand. Your familiarity with the matter is directly proportionate to the time, attention and nurturing you give to it. Therefore much of it has got to do with the mind-set. If your mind genuinely aspires for heavier responsibilities, it will work wonders. If you decided to join law and you have progressed to a stage where there is no going back to engineering or medicine or anything else, then you might as well love your work on the subject than keep focusing on the exhaustion it causes.

    Secondly, avoid as much as possible, the intake of people-related negativity. It only takes away time and energy unnecessarily. Stop judging others. Stop telling yourself how imperfect or unjust others are. Stop also fearing that someone else will take away what you think is due to you. Do not let your mind dwarf you. Do not be a constant complaint-box indulging in shadow-boxing. The world has been, is and will remain unfair in varying degrees. There is no perfect world that has ever existed. While we all should work towards an ideal world, we should also remain realistic. After all, when you decided to join law, did you not know that you will interact with all sorts of people in life? Do you think a Jethmalani or a Nariman or a Venugopal or a Salve was made because they dealt all along with only the nicest of human beings? I am certain they would have dealt immensely with rogues, scoundrels and crooks in their fabulous journey as lawyers. So remain a good human being to everyone, without losing energy over the fact that an ideal world does not necessarily exist around us. A change in the mind-set can instantly take away your pains and bring a smile.

     

    A litigation lawyer in a corporate law firm is in the minority. What are your experiences holding this unique position?

    That is a very interesting question. I have to tell you three things in response:

    Firstly, in the litigation circles in general, you will find a lot of people who are cynical about non-litigation work and are unable to appreciate or respect the practice of corporate or transactional laws as real lawyering. I feel sad for those who sustain the said mentality. Let me tell you in no uncertain terms that law is not all about disputes. Law as a profession was derived from the requirements and needs of the society. If today’s society or economy mandates that a lawyer has a distinct space in a bank or an insurance company, who are we to deny it and claim that a lawyer is only for the court rooms? Therefore do not live in a self-created illusory world of bald denials.

    Secondly, we also need to burst this false and unfounded myth that most of our premier law schools are not serving the society since they are primarily catering to the needs of the corporate world. How many law graduates are created every year in this country and what percentage of them can all the corporate law firms and companies together recruit? Will Amarchand, JSA, AZB, Trilegal and all the other top law firms together be able to recruit even 1000 fresh lawyers in a year? If I am not mistaken we are creating not less than 50,000 new lawyers every year. If you wish to write off the largest majority of new lawyers who add to the already over-crowded court rooms and wish to find fault with the micro-minority who get corporate placements, the problem is really your inability to see the plain and simple reality. Further, I am also willing to concede that my friends on the corporate side helping the business of a company to be set up or helping a company with its project finance is doing as much, if not more, service to the society as is done by me or others in the court rooms.

    Thirdly, to specifically answer your question, I believe there is a very unique space for a litigation lawyer in a firm which primarily handles non-litigation works. A litigation lawyer is essentially a story-teller. He always has a narration to make. His clients come with narratives. His files are full of narrations. He reads his case laws to extract a dictum emerging out of divergent contentions placed in the background of a factual narration.  He reads his statutes looking for “the scheme of the law” and in the said process goes back into the social context or philosophy of law also goes forward into the social consequence of the written words of law. He is constantly preparing to articulate a narration in writing in his court pleadings. He is constantly selling stories to the judges. There is therefore an inner voice that starts communicating with you as a litigation lawyer, which I think can be synergised well even with non-litigation work. I truly believe that this mental process can tremendously help you creatively contribute to the work your colleagues are doing even in the non-litigation spheres. You can, not only deal with a contract when it runs into a dispute but can also assist your colleagues with appreciating a contract in a certain narrative form, concept and structure from its formative stages itself. You can assist your friends with providing legal opinions from various interpretative possibilities. According to me, a new work culture has to emerge which appreciates that a litigation and a non-litigation lawyer have a lot to work to do in tandem at every stage of a deal. Instead of seeing practise areas in isolation, synergies should be developed and maintained at stages when a contract is being drawn up, when a certain structure is being designed and when clauses are added in developing the said structure.

     

    What are the most important characteristic one needs to develop to succeed in the field of law? 

    Everything which works for one person, need not necessarily work for another. One needs to find his or her own answers and approaches through a constant process of enquiries, observations and self-analysis. There can however be a few very general guidelines, which possibly work commonly for the vast majority. In that general sense, I can always say a few things like one must constantly work on his language skills, on his physical and mental energy levels to sit for long hours of work, on his ability to carry the people around you together, on his approachability and availability to those who you service etc.

    But what according to me should form the most important characteristic or hallmark is the ability to proportionately mix the right amount of humility with the right amount of confidence, without either of it coming at the expense of the other.

    Humility is a must, or else you will never be a constant learner. You may be a first rank holder in 10th or 12th, but do not come to law with the same approach with which you thought of academics earlier. There would have been a certain amount of comprehensiveness or finality to anything you dealt with in your school before joining law. That is just not the case with law. Do not think that law is all about the syllabus you have in each subject in your class. For example, you may have just one semester to complete the Evidence Act, but let us bow down to the fact that it takes a life time to know the Evidence Act well. You may have just two semesters to deal with the whole of Company law, but it is again a lifetime affair to know it well. So, the legal education in law schools is only an introduction to the larger world. All along the law school as well as while in the profession, there is a constant requirement to bow down before the enormity of the subject and also the eminence of the great masters around.

    However, this humility shall not come at the expense of your confidence. The study and practise of law is also about the ability to take one’s own positions. I can tell you about my batch from NUJS. Throughout NUJS our batch debated human rights, child rights, farmers’ rights, tribal rights, women’s rights, prisoner’s rights and the like. However, our batch turned out to be one of largest contributors to corporate law practise. How does something like this happen? This happens because essentially you are developing a talent. You are developing the confidence of a person to go into details of any subject and take one’s own stand. Many times, Dr. Menon would engage the class in discussions based on some newspaper article instead of statutory provisions, and would yet create a confident lawyer out of you at the end of the session. Therefore please remember that while you respectfully carry the much-needed facet of humility, you must also confidently be able to believe that even if the best counsel in the country appears against you in a matter, you will do a good job and will not run away. If he can do it, so can you. Can’t you? Think about it.

  • Abhishek Dutta, Founding and Managing Partner, Aureus Law Partner, on arbitration, taxation law, and starting his own practice

    Abhishek Dutta, Founding and Managing Partner, Aureus Law Partner, on arbitration, taxation law, and starting his own practice

    Abhishek graduated from NLSIU, Bengaluru, in 2002. He is the Founder and Managing Partner of Aureus Law Partners. He has been in the consulting industry for most of the last decade and a half. Having worked in Ernst & Young, he decided to move with the founding team of BMR Advisors, and worked with BMR Advisors till 2011. After a long stint in BMR, he founded the tax team of HSA Advocates, which saw HSA Advocates being ranked in International Tax Review rankings for the first time as a tier two practice.

    In this interview we speak to him about:

    • His time at NLSIU
    • The Indian tax regime
    • Working for Ernst and Young, and HSA

    Given that most of our readers are law students and young lawyers, how will you introduce yourself to them? 

    I am the first lawyer in my extended family. And a first generation Delhiite, if there is such a term. My introduction to any young lawyer at this stage of my career would perhaps be that I am just like you, with self-belief, courage of conviction, and aspirations. For me, starting a law firm and working as a Partner in Aureus Law Partners is as new as a career in law would be for you. The quest to perform and succeed would be your constant wingmen. But do remember to savour the small successes, and take failure of any kind in your stride.

     

    What was it that got you interested in the legal field?

    Three factors really – at the time when I was completing my school, the only two ‘career choices’ were medicine or engineering. I did not want to pursue either.

    The second reason is perhaps more contextual. My father had been embroiled in litigation ever since he was a very young. I wanted to help him out, and studying law was one of the ways in which I could.

    The third reason being – I got through NLSIU. Had it been any other institution (and at the time the only other choices were the three year courses which were not really an option immediately out of school), I would have probably pursued chartered accountancy, and definitely cricket.

    How was your experience in NLSIU? 

    We end up spending five of our formative years in a residential course in NLS. You go in as an eighteen year old greenhorn and come out as a 23 year old qualified lawyer. The world that you had left behind in your small town, has in the meanwhile, completely changed. This is bound to shape your future years as a professional and a person. The experience in law school instils a certain kind of confidence. The five years in law school makes you see the other point of view. This is important in several ways, as the ability to see the other point of view and choosing to agree or disagree with it depends on reasons that you give yourself for doing so. The ability to reason conflicting positions out is at the heart of understanding the role that you play later. I played cricket  for the university team through my five years– internships and moots were limited to coursework only! Playing a part in taking NLS to the second round of the South Zonal Inter Varsity Tournament in my first year, and being the captain of the cricket team in the third year, perhaps contributed the most to my identity in law school. Law School taught me how to research, provided me with an analytical bent of mind and to express myself. This is important in real world practice of law as well.

     

    What were your areas of interest in law school? How did you recognise and cultivate such interests?

    I used to participate in a lot of sporting activities and some inter class cultural events. Other than that, I did wish to write, and perhaps would do so yet. And as of other areas of ‘interests’ – I met Nimisha in NLSIU, who I am now married to and have twin daughters with! So that turned out well.

     

    Have you ever considered pursuing further studies? 

    I had certainly thought about further studies, but circumstances back home would not have allowed me to take another year before I got into a career. I think in today’s context higher education is desirable. However, I feel that getting a prestigious scholarship is what one should be aiming for.

     

    How did you secure an appointment with Ernst and Young?

    I got to know that there was a vacancy through Gaurav Malhotra, a senior from law school who used to work in EY at that point of time. I then applied via the regular channels with my CV and got called for an interview.  After being selected as an executive, bulk of the work assigned to me was to do with Value Added Tax advisory services – fairly niche work.  I left EY upon, and  perhaps because of, the beginning of BMR Advisors which was founded by Bobby Parikh, Mukesh Butani, Rajeev Dimri and a host of other partners and seniors from EY.  

     

    What motivated you to join BMR Advisors instead? 

    I joined BMR Advisors due to the promise of exposure, the opportunity to work directly with top notch professionals in the indirect tax space like Rajeev Dimri and Sujit Ghosh (who also is an NLSIU alumni), and the certainty of bone crushing work schedule – the latter of which almost always ensures a very steep learning curve, which is something I was aiming for. At BMR I dealt with all indirect taxes and worked on client assignments which only a few others would have at that stage of one’s career. Notably, I worked as the only senior associate in Delhi on jobs to transition some of the biggest companies to Value Added Tax back in 2005. I have the privilege of claiming that I played a (big?) role in transitioning business like GSK, Nokia, Cargill, etc. to VAT. My experience in BMR was tremendous throughout to say the least.  BMR taught me a lot of what I know today. It also gave me the confidence to strike out on my own – and I did that, which I guess some of my seniors in BMR may still not be very happy about! 

     

    You founded the tax team at HSA Advocates. How did you go about doing this? 

    The decision to join HSA Advocates was based on an idea to render tax and legal services together as a seamless offering. Rashmi Chaudhury, our partner in Aureus, contributed to and developed this idea with me at the time.

    Essentially, in accounting firms, one did not provide legal services along with tax advisory. Drafting assistance, for example, would not be provided by an accounting firm, even though one may know an arrangement inside out having advised the business on the tax implications of such transactional arrangements. This, I felt, was limiting. I got the opportunity to speak to Hemant (through Utsa Shome who was working for HSA at that point of time) and got to present a business plan to the then partners at HSA. It was the indulgence of the Partner team in HSA at the time that allowed us to work with them. I am deeply thankful for that. I’d like to think that we managed to meet the business plan. We also got HSA to rank in the International Tax Review rankings at tier three.

    Taxation law is a bit of everything really. The best part about tax practice is that it allows you to learn about virtually all industries, and interact with business, legal and finance teams alike. Of course there is another aspect of the practice (more particularly seen in Big Four, etc.) that dictates that a tax professional be a niche area advisor. This may have its merits at an organisational level, but could be a limiting factor at a professional / personal level.

     

    Can you please share your opinion on the GST Bill?

    GST is a bit of two things really; it is continuity in several aspects that relates to service tax, while revamping the entire taxation regime in relation to goods. The most important change – which the common man does not really focus on – is that it has taken excise duty away. Common understanding aside, from a ‘doing business’ stand-point GST changes everything for most businesses. More importantly it changes the manner in which compliances are done, and brings is some amount of certainty in several areas where there was no certainty earlier.  

    The tax regime of any country is typified by the administration. I like to think that I am a keen observer and a student of tax administration in India. I have contributed an essay in an HSA sponsored publication that I had edited entitled “Perspectives: On certain aspects in Indian taxation” where I had commented at length on tax administration, having studied various authorities on the subject.

     

    What motivated you to leave HSA and found Aureus Law Partners? 

    Again, leaving HSA was more of a strategic decision to expand beyond infrastructure practice. As I already noted, tax work gives you a unique perspective into a transaction, and the industry as a whole. You end up working closely with the commercial and business team, which always helps to structure a deal, while keeping in view the possibility of litigation on account of positions taken. This is the idea which gave birth to Aureus,  which provides end to end solution across industries. I got lucky in that I had a tremendous team with me – we had very good rapport and the attorneys who became the first few Aureuseans, were all willing to share the risk.  Some of these associates are still with the Firm and have gone on to open our branches in various locations. For instance, Chinmay and Suresh handle our Uttarakhand presence having been there since day zero in the Firm.  Some of the others have gone on for further studies, and / or are placed with larger firms. Both these developments are a matter of pride for me and the Firm.

    The other reason for starting a new firm was that I got an opportunity of being able to work with Mr. Kantawala who is senior partner at Aureus. I had interned with him when I was a student, and worked on some of his matters later as a litigator from an associated chamber. That’s another story – I started my career as a litigator under Ajit Warrier, who is now a partner at SAM. Our chambers (NN Agarwal & Associates) used to work quite closely with Mr. Kantawala at the time.  I always felt that a firm should have a very strong litigation practice, which Mr. Kantawala has ensured for Aureus Law Partners.

     

    What is your current role as the Founding and Managing Partner?

    As the Chief Executive & Partner at Aureus, the responsibilities range from executing engagements, to developing business to office administration and managing the attorneys in the firm. As a professional matures in career, expertise becomes wider. This is where I find myself now. I am called upon to render strategic advisory assistance to clients – which may have to do with corporate criminal matters to M&A advisory to targets and investors alike, and even business and legal advice to promotor groups as and when called for. Taxes, and therefore by extension GST, remains a focus area, having worked in the area for the better part of my professional life. I have had the opportunity to work on some very big ticket matters for large industry majors, including the likes of Indorama, Nike, Lanco, Wipro, etc. to name a few. We have managed large litigations and arbitrations where I have been involved on a hands on basis along with our litigation team. We have provided strategic advisory to offshore entities in setting up presence in India, and continue to manage their operational compliances in India.  We are attempting to establish our presence in various new industries, including defence, insurance and the like. So the hands are quite full.

    In addition to these, one needs to manage the office infrastructure. From day one in the Firm we had time sheet, accounting and invoicing systems. In fact, I also was hands on in developing our website and the client outreach programs. These are tough jobs – and need to be done. The responsibilities are varied. There is no dearth of work.  

     

    Can you give law students some advice on how to go about researching and drafting their work? 

    Research, content, language, prose, and formatting. I think these are the things that you need to focus on to be able to be published.

     

    Do you think arbitration is the future of dispute resolution in India? 

    Our litigation and arbitration practice is a well-established practice and this shows in the fact that  we have succeeded in getting some big ticket matters in arbitration.  We have achieved success in international commercial arbitration out of London in the first year of our founding itself when we secured costs from the Arbitrator towards legal expenses to be paid by the offshore claimant. The claimant had to pay damages to our client as well. All this without even leaving Delhi to attend the arbitral proceedings.

    Recently, we achieved closure in an arbitration matter in insurance, by virtue of an opinion that we had given and are representing a client in relation to a D&O insurance policy. Arbitration would be the recommended course of action for these and many other such newer areas of law, for which precedents are few and far between. Of course, traditional areas of law also benefit from an arbitral process. There are very good arbitration centres in India now. These can be used for the purposes of effective, cost efficient and quick resolution of disputes.

     

    How do you stay up to date about the recent developments in all the fields you work in and have an interest in?

    In today’s day and age literary and professional resources are much more easily available thanks to the net. I would suggest that students and professionals alike maintain a hunger to read. Given a chance, read anything you can lay your hands on. Also, I find that certain internet resources are very good sources of primers on various areas which a student may not be familiar with. These could help in a base level understanding and serve as a launch pad for further reading and understanding of a particular subject. However, net based knowledge should be verified with the actual statutes and verified sources.

     

    What advice do you have for our readers?

    College is a time when you should focus on all aspects of your personality. Try to ensure that you do what you like and not just what you are told. This is the time when you form views, when you establish an identity, and when you try to give direction to your career. You should keep an open mind and try to learn as much as possible. And yes, don’t forget to have fun.

  • M.S. Bharath, Senior Partner, Anand and Anand, on the Indian IPR regime, and his diverse experience

    M.S. Bharath, Senior Partner, Anand and Anand, on the Indian IPR regime, and his diverse experience

    M.S. Bharath graduated in law from Pune University, batch of 2001. Bharath is a Senior Partner at Anand and Anand, India leads the Chennai City Office practice since June 2009. His practice includes Intellectual Property litigation before Indian High Courts, opposition, cancellation and other related proceedings before the Trademark Office, Intellectual Property Appellate Board (IPAB), Copyright Board and Geographical Indications Office. He has been the lead counsel in numerous appeals, rectification and original proceedings before the High Courts of New Delhi, Chennai and IPAB with several reported decisions to his credentials.

    In this interview, we speak to him about:

    • His time at law school
    • His role at Anand and Anand
    • His experience in IPR

    How would you like to introduce yourself to our readers?

    I am an intellectual property lawyer and a Senior Partner in Anand and Anand based in Chennai.

     

    Tell us a little about your days in law school.

    The days in law school (in Pune) gave me a hands on experience and exposure to diversity in culture, inclusiveness, collaboration and leadership. For want of hostels, we had to fend for ourselves including arranging for accommodation (which were in the 1990’s either homestays or apartments shared by at least eight to ten individuals), food (either by hiring a common cook or eat out from dhabas) transport and working on budgets. The absence of a structured placement cell compelled us to be innovative to raise monies, collate resumes of those who were interested, design and print a brochure, visit firms across the country to brand the institution and seek placements of the students as well.  Spearheading this initiative helped me gain operational skills but also with much needed exposure to the legal market and understanding of the differences in expectations and work cultures in cities such Bombay, Delhi, Madras, Calcutta and Bangalore as they were known back then.

     

    How important are grades, in your opinion?

    While grades are important they are definitely not critical. Most lawyers and firms seek law graduates who are committed, hardworking and above all uncompromising on integrity while grades as GPA’s are incidental.  I sincerely hope that students aspiring for a legal career do not seek out only for chances of landing jobs in top firms, as any firm one joins or sets up may soon be one.

     

    What subjects did you take particular interest in during your law school days?

    As a law student, Jurisprudence and Procedure Codes were quite appealing to me. While these subjects were not decisive in my career choice, they are  indeed the Grund Norm for daily practice.

     

    Who was your mentor, or main source of inspiration who motivated you all along the way?

    Personally speaking, there can never be just one mentor for an individual for it is likely to take away one’s individuality. I have had many individuals who have inspired me over the years including my father Mr. Subramanian, my late grand uncle Mr. Raghavan, both lawyers and my grandfather Ananthasubramanian who sowed the seeds of grit, independence, integrity, contentment, honesty; my wife Kavita who brought out the extrovert in me; Mr. Anand our Managing partner who continues to share his “Never say die” and “Never say never” attitudes, client handling abilities and vast wealth of IP knowledge; a dear friend and colleague Shamnad Basheer for getting me on board the IP world through Anand and Anand and inspiring many including me to care and share with initiatives such as IDIA (Increasing Diversity by Increasing Access). In fact I find inspirations even from interns and colleagues who bring new ideas and ideologies to the working table.

     

    What kind of internships did you engage in during your student years which you feel were invaluable to you in reaching your current position?

    It is important that as a student, one identifies their favourite subject and aspirational senior / firm / organisation early on to seek and undertake an internship. This helps both the student and the employer know each other on many levels. I was lucky to undertake an internship in Anand and Anand in the penultimate summer of my law degree. The month long program led to a pre-placement offer and next sixteen wonderful years here.

     

    How did you develop this keen interest in Intellectual Property Rights Law?

    The zeal to learn new subject and remain a multi disciplinarian drew me towards intellectual property laws. The profession of IP attorney is possibly the only one which touches upon varied subjects of law, arts, science and commerce and in some rare cases all at once. The graduation in commerce prior to law helped me blend in easier.

     

    What kind of activities did you undertake in law school that helped you nurture this interest in IPR law?

    It was the internship at Anand and Anand which gave me an insight into the world of IPR which am still discovering and exploring after sixteen years. Back in the day we hardly had exciting activities on campus unlike now to nurture interests in IPR.

     

    Would attending IPR conferences hold any CV value, or would you recommend them anyway for their academic value?

    It is easy to get lost in the host of conferences, which are being organised on IPR related subjects. Of late there are so many, that even practitioners find it difficult to pick the right one or to let go. It is best to seek guidance from seasoned practitioners on which ones are relevant to attend as a student or young practitioner. In any case, while attendance at these conferences may be of academic value it would not have much impact on CV!

     

    Please give our readers some insights on the leading Indian firms dealing in IPR law, and your recommendations for where and how to secure internships.

    There are quite a number of top quality IPR law firms in India currently, with most based in the cities of New Delhi, Mumbai, Chennai and Bangalore. It would be inappropriate to name only some.

    While most of these firms over the years have gained reputation on one or few verticals within the IPR regime, say trademarks or patents drafting or prosecution or IP Enforcement, there are only a few which are quite interestingly known as “Full service IP firm” excelling in all forms of IP and all forms of prosecution and enforcement. Choosing a firm to intern with is critical and ought not to be done for the sake of merely adding on to resume. Depending on one’s leaning and flair for a subject, firms have to be identified and applications for internship are to be sent in early on.

    In the recent past I increasingly notice students sending requests for being connected on social media such as Linked In and immediately follow up with requests for internship. Such tools are not only easier for students to better understand the organisation and the individual with whom they seek internship but also build a rapport even prior to the internship program.

    Despite all these initiatives, one needs to be lucky, and being lucky according to me is meeting of Preparedness and Opportunity. A person would not be lucky if despite being having an opportunity is not prepared to take it further ahead.

     

    Tell us about your work experience at Anand & Anand where you currently are a Senior Partner.

    Starting as an intern in 2000, last year I was invited to be a part of our firm’s Council of Senior partners. Early on as a trademarks attorney, I assisted in setting up the firm’s practice before the IP Appeal Board. After several appearances before the Trademark office and Appeal Board, I turned to be a litigator as well. Ever since moving to Chennai in 2009, the city office practice has blossomed well with a current strength of over fifteen members.

     

    What do leading firms that specialise in IPR such as Anand & Anand look for in prospective candidates for internships, retainerships or recruitment?

    While the love and flair for the subject is a given requisite, we look for candidates who innately put clients’ interests above all and work with high commitment, vigour, and ownership without compromise on integrity. As internship programs help us identify prospects, it is easy to differentiate those who come in only for adding claims on their CV and those who have the IP fire in the belly and eagerness to join us.

     

    Do you believe in the conception that there is manifest reluctance among law graduates to take up IPR law as there is a scarcity of job opportunities in this area of practice?

    Quite the contrary! With the boom in innovation, manufacturing and consumption in India, the need for IP attorney has gained significant importance and their need is sure to increase in the times to come. The IP field and as an industry has been steadily growing if not exploding in India recently. While there are quite a few IPR boutique firms which have blossomed recently, the Indian and multi-national corporations have also been busy setting up in house IP cells and departments, resulting in need for many IP hands at work.

     

    Do you feel that there are shortcomings in Indian IPR law that make the practice itself difficult? 

    Every country legislates laws suitable to its own historic, social, economic background each of which undergo change with passage of time. Indian IPR Laws are no different and are quite unique to the land. Practice of these laws and succeeding in it would directly depend on one’s ability to identify practical solutions to clients’ problems within the limits of these laws. There are no short-comings in either the Indian IPR laws or their practice. Innovation is key especially in practice of IPR law. We at Anand and Anand take pride in always staying ahead of the curve to come out innovative solutions to clients. For example one of the largest brewing companies was facing severe waste of resources, as they were one of the few players in the industry to introduce fresh bottles into the commercial stream. As beer bottles are a commodity which are recycled, other players were reaping the benefit of sourcing such bottles from recyclers without having to invest in fresh ones. A simple solution suggested by us of introducing distinctive bottle designs with the brand names embossed on it gave a two layered protection both under designs and trademarks, saving large sums of monies to the client.

     

    Is it necessary to have a background in General Sciences in order to pursue IPR studies?

    Not at all, though having a science background is indeed a great advantage. Science and Commerce are the Yin and Yang of IP. It is a rarity to find those who understand both the streams well but it is in the intersection of these two subjects where the hearts of IP and its practice reside.

     

    What moots would you recommend for an IPR law enthusiast to further their interest and what journals would you recommend for someone who’s hoping to get their work published?

    India’s first and most prestigious moot court competition on IPR is Raj Anand Intellectual Property Moot Court, which has had fifteen editions. It is considered the epitome of IPR moots and is a must attend to get a flavour of India’s best competitors mooting on the best IPR problems before the best judges, who are India’s leading IP practitioners and sitting judges of Indian Courts. More information on this can be found at http://ipmoot.org. I would encourage students to publish their work firstly in their own college journals and thereafter reach out to other prominent journals such as PTC (Patent and Trademarks Cases) MIPR (Manupatra IP Reports) which encourage and receive submissions from laws students and scholars. Spicy IP, the popular IP Blog founded by Shamnad also encourages students to be part of their eco system and community to present views and publish works as well.

    What general advice would you give our readers who aspire to stay at the top of their IP game?

    An IP lawyer advising clients on a variety of IP subjects has to necessarily understand their client’s business and commercial standing for each of the subject matters. While standing in their client’s shoes an IP attorney needs to have a perspective of subjects including accounting, statistics, finance, marketing, and advertising. Even if one is not a commerce or a science student there is a much needed foundation for an IP attorney to understand the panorama of how a business is run. To stay ahead of the curve think like a lawyer, science student, commerce student all at once while acting like a business woman / man!

  • Sarosh Zaiwalla, Senior Partner, Zaiwalla & Co. Solicitors, on International Arbitration, working with His Holiness the Dalai Lama, and his diverse experience

    Sarosh Zaiwalla, Senior Partner, Zaiwalla & Co. Solicitors, on International Arbitration, working with His Holiness the Dalai Lama, and his diverse experience

    Sarosh Zaiwalla graduated from Government Law College in 1972. He founded Zaiwalla & Co. Solicitors in April 1982. He oversees all the activities relating to the firm, and also sits as an International Arbitrator. He is the Senior Partner of Zaiwalla & Co Solicitors which has been in the City of London for the past 35 years. His firm successfully acted for the Iranian private bank, Bank Mellat, both before the Supreme Court and the EU Court challenging the listing of bank under Iran Nuclear Sanctions. As a consequence of his firm’s success, Bank Mellat today have a claim of USD 4 billion before the English Court in respect of damages for losses caused because of unlawful listing. His firm were also the first firm which successfully challenged in the EU Court the listing of Iranian companies by EU Council. Zaiwalla & Co have acted for several Iranian companies including Bank Tejarat and Petropars.

    In this interview we speak to him about:

    • His illustrious career
    • Setting up practice in the UK
    • His experience with high profile cases

    Given that most of our readers are law students, how would you introduce yourself to them?

    I founded Zaiwalla & Co. Solicitors in London which is the first English Solicitors firm in the one square mile commercial and financial district in the city of London started by a solicitor born outside Europe. We have been in existence for 36 years and at our 30th anniversary reception in November 2012, the Chief Guest, Rt. Hon. Sir Dominic Grieves MP in his speech said that what my firm had achieved in the development of English law will be remembered even after 100 years. There are today 104 reported judgments in the English law reports where my firm had acted for one of the parties. A judgment is only reported in the law reports if it affects the development of law. We are today one of the leading firms in the field of International Arbitration.

     

    What motivated you to pursue a career in the legal field?

    As a young student in St. Xavier’s High School, Bombay, my career ambition was to join politics and become the Prime Minister of India so that I could change India and make it great again. My father was a solicitor who had qualified in London in 1925. He was the youngest member of his family and as the youngest member of my family, I was encouraged to qualify as a solicitor in London.

     

    What got you interested in the field of International Arbitration? 

    I did my Solicitors training in an English Solicitors firm called Stocken & Co. who were maritime lawyers and specialised in maritime arbitrations. This gave me the first exposure to international maritime Arbitrations. In those years a Solicitors training was not on a structured basis like it is now and one would start as an assistant to a Senior Solicitor, at first carrying his bags and making cups of tea for him and then later being trained on the job.

     

    Can you briefly describe your current role as an Arbitrator and an Advisor to clients involved in international arbitrations?

    As the world got smaller, international trade between businessmen from various countries grew. International businessmen want a neutral country to settle their disputes and would therefore opt for Arbitration in a neutral venue with a respectable legal infrastructure. This would normally be London where Arbitration in its modern form, was given birth to, over 300 years ago. In the City of London all the fixtures for ocean going vessels to carry cargo were agreed at the Baltic Exchange. The Baltic Exchange used to be the centre of all shipping chartering contracts all over the world. Whenever a dispute arose as to what was agreed between the brokers, the owners and the charterers, they would at the end of the day ask a senior respectable broker to determine the dispute over a cup of tea.

    This was the beginning of international Arbitration in London. International Arbitration has now grown in a sophisticated fashion and it is also a serious foreign exchange earner for the country where the seat of the Arbitration is located. This is because the seat has no other connection to the parties in the Arbitration who have chosen the seat of the Arbitration but the parties have to instruct for example, English Solicitors for London Arbitrations and also spend on experts, Barristers, hotels and other expenses. As a firm of Solicitors we have recently been consulted by the Russian Government in respect of a potential challenge to USD 50 billion Arbitration award against Russia by the International Arbitration Court in The Hague.

    As an Arbitrator, I recently sat for two weeks in Tel Aviv, Israel, as a Sole Arbitrator to decide a multi-million dollar dispute. I have also sat as an Arbitrator in Bombay with Sir Anthony Evans and Harish Salve to decide an international Arbitration dispute concerning a power plant in South India.

     

    International Arbitration often involves a complex interplay of public and private international law. Can you elaborate on this aspect for our readers?

    This is correct because in international Arbitrations there can be three countries which can play a part. For example, in a contract between say an Indian party and a United States party where the contract provides for disputes to be settled in London, Indian law, US law and English law could all have a part to play. Usually, if the contract provides for Arbitration in a neutral venue as the seat of the Arbitration, say London, then there is a presumption that the parties intend English law to apply to the contract. There was a case which I handled earlier for ISRO of India in respect of an Arbitration claim brought by McDonnell Douglas concerning Satellite inset 1B. The Arbitration provided for London as a seat of Arbitration but with the Indian Arbitration Act to apply. The English Court held that by this term, only the procedural aspect would apply to the Arbitration but on the main issues English law would apply. See Union of India v. McDonnell Douglas Corporation [1993] 2 Lloyd’s Rep. 48 In another shipping case, the contract was governed by English law with the seat of Arbitration being London, but the English High Court held that in construing its term in the contract, as the performance of the term was to be India, Indian law would apply. This was the case of a vessel called “Nestor” which is reported at [1987] 2 Lloyds Rep. 649. In both of these cases my firm had acted for the Indian parties.

     

    What are your views on the necessity of higher education? 

    Education, including higher education, instructs a student but life experiences educate a student. Higher education is of course of utmost importance because it readily opens doors for good employment or starting ones practice. Higher education is a certificate of competence and knowledge. I have however found that many Oxford and Cambridge educated lawyers were no match for a lawyer with good instincts and wisdom. My advice to your readers would be to go for opportunities available to pursue higher education, it can only do good.

     

    What was your first job out of law school?

    My first job out of law school was an evening job with the Hinduja brothers at their company Sangam Ltd. I had met GP and SP Hinduja when I was still training at Stocken & Co. and they asked me to join their employment. They had just moved from Tehran to London. I said I did not want to take a job and I wanted to have my own practice after I was enrolled as a Solicitor. So the Hinduja brothers offered me an evening job from 6:30pm – 9:30pm. I had an arrangement with Stocken & Co that if I travel for them overseas, Stocken & Co would bill the Hinduja brothers. This was a great opportunity for me because in one year I travelled 42 times to Geneva with the Hinduja brothers and their right hand Mr. Golikeri. I was part of the team which negotiated contract with top lawyers on the other side and although I was not qualified I acted as Hinduja brothers’ unqualified legal adviser, interpreter and negotiator.

    When I started on my own I was fortunate to be appointed as the Indian High Commission in London’s Solicitor. At that time the High Commissioner was Dr. Syed Mohammed who was himself an ex-English Barrister and he had been the Advocate General of Kerala and Minister of State for Law and Justice in Indira Gandhi’s Government. He was thrilled to see a young Parsee Indian starting a law firm in the City of London keeping his Indian surname.

     

    What motivated you to start Zaiwalla and Co. Solicitors?

    When I was working at Stockens I became friendly with Cedric Barclay who was an eminent and popular maritime Arbitrator. I got to know him and a few months before I was enrolled as a Solicitor, he invited me for a cup of tea at his office. In the course of our conversation over tea, he strongly advised me not to join the big English Solicitors firms. He said, “You are good and well liked, but if you join a large English maritime firm, the Senior Partner will take you for lunch once a year and say, “Good job, old boy”, but you will go no higher.” So he advised me strongly to start on my own. True to his word, when I started Zaiwalla & Co., he personally took me to the offices of big ship owners to introduce me and recommend me to them. Very soon I had a reasonably large Greek ship owning clientele.

    Surprisingly, when I started I did not face any major hurdles with the white professional population. They were somewhat surprised to see a brown face but they were more than encouraging. Appearing before the English Commercial Court Judges was a very favourable experience. The Judges would make sure that I was comfortable and go out of their way to ensure that they had fully understood my client’s case. In a way, I found myself sometimes in a more advantageous situation then the white contemporaries in Court. In due course the word went around and the client base started to build and within five or six years I had 23 lawyers working in my firm and at that stage Zaiwalla & Co. was mainly an international Arbitration firm doing maritime Arbitrations and litigation which was mainly for Indian Government cases in the English Court.

     

    You have represented major clients including governments. How have you developed and maintained a client base?

    It is hard work to maintain a client base. An essential ingredient for this purpose is to keep in constant contact with the client. What a client expects from a lawyer is integrity, competence and speed. I made sure that I provided all three of these to our clients.

     

    What are the qualities one needs to develop to become a successful arbitrator? 

    (Sarosh has been appointed as an Arbitrator in a number of multi- million dollar disputes.)

    An Arbitrators task is very different from the task of a lawyer. I have always been a creative lawyer and I believe in the principle that “law is for justice and not justice for law”. My firm and I have built up a reputation of being creative on issues of law. As a lawyer I can put forward a creative proposition of law to fit the facts and it would be for the Judge or the Arbitrator to decide whether there was any value in such a proposition. However, as an Arbitrator it is for me to make sure that I get it right and live up to the trust which the parties had placed in me to give a correct decision. There are times when I am one of the three members of the Arbitration Tribunal. In that case usually the Chairman who is the third Arbitrator prepares the first draft of the Tribunals award. Many times I have sat as a Sole Arbitrator for multi-million dollar disputes and such cases require a lot of thinking in arriving at my decision which is not very easy. The most important quality to be an Arbitrator is integrity and commercial common sense. An Arbitrator is a Judge who is appointed by the private party whereas a Judge is appointed by the state. Recently, there was a case in the UK Supreme Court (Hashwani v Jivraj) which my firm had handled where the issue was whether an Arbitrator is an employee of the parties. The English Court of Appeal said yes an Arbitrator is an employee of the parties but the UK Supreme Court reversed their decision and held that an Arbitrator is not an employee and he perform the same function as a Judge.

     

    Can you tell our readers about the nature of maritime disputes and how they are unique?

    A substantial part of the international trade of goods and commodities takes place by transporting of those goods by ocean going vessels. In the course of the voyage, often goods get damaged because of dampness in the vessels hold or seepage of sea water in the hold. The other types of dispute which generally arises relates to charter party disputes which includes demurrage disputes, bill of lading disputes, General Average and collision at sea disputes. I have had the privilege of handling all of these types of disputes. India’s first success in the House of Lords in a commercial case concerned the vessel called La Pintada. In this case the charterer was the President of India and he paid demurrage some two years late. The owners of the vessel commenced Arbitration claiming interest on a three month compounded rate basis arguing that they had lost the use of money by the delayed payment. The Arbitrator made an award of compound interest in onus favour. The High Court sent the award back to the Arbitrator for reconsideration on the basis that the award sought to make charterer an involuntary banker. The Arbitrator once again confirmed the award which he had previously made. When Indian Government challenged the award once again in the Commercial Court, the Court referred it straight to the Supreme Court for decision. The House of Lords unanimously decided in Indian Government’s favour. This was a test case because in those years of foreign exchange crisis, Indian Government always paid freight and demurrage late and if India had lost in the House of Lords, they would have had to have paid over £5 million in compound interest because other ship owners would then be claiming compound interest for late payment. Incidentally in this case, the Barrister my firm had instructed was Tony Blair who later on went on to become the Prime Minister of the UK. Please see 1983 1 Lloyds page 39.

     

    Can you give our readers some insight into the Tibet dispute as well as the efforts being undertaken to resolve it? 

    (Sarosh was appointed by His Holiness the Dalai Lama to mediate with the Chinese government in order to resolve the Tibet dispute.)

    I am a qualified CEDR (Centre for International Dispute Resolution) Mediator. For many years my firm acted for PRC Government in their international Arbitration cases. My firm had an office in Beijing for twelve years. We represented CNPC, CPECC, CPTDC and Min Metals in five major international Arbitrations. Chinese Embassy had heard about my firms successes for Indian Government and the then Chinese Ambassador in 1991 had a meeting with me and asked me to assist China to set up in China a legal system which could work internationally. The Embassy sponsored a trip for me to visit Beijing in December 1991. In 1994, I facilitated a second channel dialogue between 10 Downing Street and the central committee of Chinese communist party on misunderstanding which had arisen concerning the agreement to hand over Hong Kong to China. This was a successful dialogue. Thereafter, my relations with Chinese Government became very friendly and my firm got a lot of legal work from Chinese state corporations.

    A few years later, Mrs. Takla, the representative of Dalai Lama contacted me.  She told me that Dalai Lama was going to visit Glasgow very soon and he would like to meet me. Accordingly, a private meeting was arranged for me in Glasgow with Dalai Lama. I was told by Mrs Takla that Dalai Lama would like me to facilitate a second channel dialogue with China to resolve the dispute between him and China relating to Tibet as he would like to go back to his home, Tibet.

    I informed the Chinese Ambassador about the Dalai Lama’s request for a meeting and before meeting Dalai Lama I had a meeting with the Chinese Ambassador in London. The Ambassador put forward China’s position and told me that one of the things which concerned China was that Dalai Lama was writing forwards to books written where the author claimed that half of China was Tibet. It was a great pleasure and honour to meet Dalai Lama on a one to one basis. I found him to be very frank and honest. He told me that his intelligence had told him that I was one non-Chinese person in the West whom the PRC Government had complete trust and confidence. He sought my help for a second channel dialogue to resolve the Tibet issue.  I told him that China was concerned about his writing forwards to books which claimed half of China was Tibet. Dalai Lama’s response was that he had no option but to do this because his Tibetan people had lived in those parts of China for centuries and it was historically part of Tibet. In a moving gesture, Dalai Lama took my hand and put it on his heart and said, “I trust you”.

    After my meeting with Dalai Lama I had a meeting with the Chinese Ambassador and told him that it would be in China’s interest to resolve the issue with Dalai Lama as he was no longer claiming independence for Tibet. Furthermore , I was aware of the communist Chinas policy towards religion which was that religion was now being permitted provided it was not controlled from outside China. In Dalai Lama’s case, he would be involved in religion from Lahasa, the capital of Tibet which was now part of China. The Ambassador told me that he would communicate his discussion with me to China. A further meeting was arranged between me and the Chinese representative and I was told that the Dalai Lama’s brother had been invited to China for discussion and there was no need for a second channel to take place through me.

     

    Can you tell our readers about the process of framing arguments and the experience of arguing before the EU court?

    (Sarosh’s was the first firm to successfully challenge the listing of Iranian companies under Iranian Nuclear Sanctions before the EU court.)

    This is correct. Bank Mellat which was Iran’s largest private bank, had challenged the sanctions in the High Court and had lost. Thereafter, Bank Mellat appealed and the Court dismissed the appeal. Bank Mellat’s former Solicitors, Stephenson Harwood, had told Bank Mellat that there was little prospect of Bank Mellat getting leave to appeal from the Supreme Court. I was one of the Solicitors Bank Mellat met with a view to deciding who to instruct for their attempt to appeal to the Supreme Court. I had earlier acted in a major Arbitration for National Iranian Oil Company (NIOC) and had turned around what they had been advised was a hopeless defence in an Arbitration case and was successful for NIOC. So the legal director of NIOC had mentioned my name to Bank Mellat and recommended my firm. The rest is history, we were successful before nine out of the total twelve Judges of the UK Supreme Court. The Supreme Court held that the UK Government had acted unlawfully and irrationally to list Bank Mellat in the list of companies supporting Iran’s nuclear proliferation and to whom the sanctions would apply.

    The Supreme Court referred the matter to the High Court to calculate damages and Bank Mellat is currently pursuing a claim of USD 4 billion for damages in the UK Court for wrongful listing of Bank Mellat on the nuclear sanctions list. It was also the first time that the UK Supreme Court went into a closed, secret hearing on grounds of national security. The trial of this claim is fixed by the English Court for October 2018.

     

    You are a member of all major arbitration institutions. What is your preferred forum? 

    My preferred forum for international Arbitration is either London Court for International Arbitration (LCIA) or International Court of Arbitration of the International Chamber of Commerce, Paris (ICC). I was a member of the International Court of Arbitration for twelve years representing India. An equally efficient forum and possibly less expensive would be for parties to simply agree London as a seat of Arbitration as this would save the administrative costs of the institutions and the Arbitration would be under direct supervision of the English Court in case something goes wrong in the Arbitration.

     

    Do you think India has the potential to become a major arbitration hub? 

    Yes, India has great potential to become a major international Arbitration hub but India has a long way to go to achieve this goal. A small country like Singapore has within a few years built up a popular international Arbitration centre and there is no reason why India cannot do so. The international centres of Arbitrations are made by good reputation and law. Reputation is a question of perception. Arbitration in India today does not enjoy a good international reputation. There are rumours of corruption amongst the Arbitrators. I am sure this rumour is unlikely to be true but one must recognise that even one case of corruption poisons the reputation of the whole Arbitration culture in India. I have had many meetings with those who manage international Arbitration in India, including with Mr Arun Jaitley and at each of these meetings I have said that the risk of corruption in the international Arbitration in India cannot be eradicated by passing of law eradicated by self-regulation in the Arbitrators community and the legal profession. Another minus point for international Arbitration in India is the perceived monopoly appointment of retired Judges who then conduct the Arbitration as if it was Court proceedings with adjournments being granted for asking. The new Indian Arbitration Act has restricted Court intervention in the Arbitration process which is a good step forward for India.

     

    International Arbitration is considered a difficult field to break into. Can you describe your journey in becoming such an authority in this field? 

    This is correct. So far, the international Arbitrators community has been an elite circle where one supports the other with the consequence that a newcomer is not easily accepted unless he blends in by accepting to begin with a second class status. The selection of Arbitrator is an important task. He should be a person with good legal and commercial law experience. The task of a party appointed Arbitrator is not to favour his appointer but he has a duty to ensure that his appointer’s points are considered by the whole Tribunal at the time of making the decision. I have found that many times, Indian parties appoint retired Judges in the international Arbitration and they are indeed very clever but they are not able to communicate with the co-Arbitrators properly, who are normally from developed countries. Often, retired Indian Judges who are product of the British imperialist culture, have enormous egos about their status. Let me give one example.

    I was appointed by the Danish company Volund to be their nominated Arbitrator in the early 90’s. The Arbitration concerned construction of a power plant in Timarpur near Delhi whose fuel would be New Delhi waste. In other words, the power plant would be converting New Delhi waste into energy. The project was supported by Danish aid agency (DANIDA). After the power plant was constructed, it was found that New Delhi waste did not have sufficient calorific heat to be used as fuel for the power plant. India appointed Mr Pathak as their Arbitrator. He was a former Chief Justice of India and retired Judge of the international Court of Justice in The Hague. The third Arbitrator and the Chairman of the Tribunal was Lord McKenzie Stuart, a former Chief Justice of the European Court. He was appointed by the International Court of Arbitration.

    On the first day of the hearing I got a note passed to me by Chief Justice Pathak which said, “You have insulted me by sitting on the right of the Chairman, I am senior to you so I should be sitting on the right of the Chairman and you should be sitting on the left”. I immediately passed the note to the Chairman with a suggestion that he adjourns the hearing for five minutes so that I can change over. He sent the note back to me saying “stay where you are”. In England or in Europe in international Arbitrations it does not matter which side the Arbitrator sits. During the coffee break, Lord McKenzie Stuart told Chief Justice Pathak that it does not matter where the Arbitrator sits and he jokingly told Chief Justice Pathak, “Don’t be a fool”. The Chief Justice took offence to this and throughout the two weeks hearing he did not utter a word and did not speak with Lord McKenzie Stuart throughout the Arbitration reference thereafter.

    The way to break into the field of international Arbitration is to first attach with a law firm or an advocate who is already handling international Arbitrations and then attend international Arbitration conferences.

     

    Can you describe your work as a solicitor in England?

    A Solicitor in London prepares the case and instructs the Counsel to argue it before the Court. It is now also possible in commercial cases for Solicitors to appear in Court as Advocates, I have done so on many occasions. My firm and I are known for difficult cases where client comes to us after they have been told by the Magic Circle firms that their claim or case is very bad.

    Two examples of this are the international Arbitration award by International Arbitration Court in The Hague which made an award of USD 50 million against the Russian Federation in the Yukos shareholders claim. Russia came to me for an out of box approach for Russia challenging the award in the Dutch Court. Sometime before this, an Indian Government company PEC Limited had come to me and they had an award of USD 8 million against them. On the face of it they had no defence because they had participated in the Arbitration and also the appeal process of GAFTA Arbitration and had lost. I took the point that although English law applied in the contract, the contract was signed by the Director of PEC on behalf of PEC and whether he had authority to do so would be governed by Indian law. Under Indian law, for a Government contract there are rules and for a USD 25 million contract you require two Director’s signatures.

    PEC therefore through my firm argued that the Arbitration agreement was void because the contract was void. In the English Court on the question of Indian law we led the evidence of Mr. Soli Sorabjee, former Attorney General of India and the other side which was a Thailand company, Asia Golden Rise, led the evidence of Mr. Harish Salve. Both of these eminent jurists were cross examined in open Court and the Court preferred the evidence of Mr Sorabjee. This changed the prevalent law.

    The second example was the case of Indian Oil Corporation (IOC) v Coastal Bermuda where IOC had participated in the London Arbitration defending a huge claim of some USD 18 million. The Arbitrators decided against Indian Oil Corporation but one of the Arbitrators, Mr. Gordon Pollock QC, added a post-script to this decision suggesting that Indian Oil’s legal team was not competent and if the team had been competent, the result may well have been different. My firm did not act for IOC in the Arbitration but they came to me after all the big law firms and Queen’s Counsel had told IOC that they had no chance of challenging the award. My firm challenged the award on an innovative ground that the award could be enforced as a judgment of the English Court and for the English Court to enforce a judgment which was not based on the two legal analysis of the evidence would be against English public policy. The English Court accepted this and remitted the award back to the Arbitrators and in its judgment said, “Finality is good but justice is better”. Indian Oil Corporation v Coastal Bermuda [1990] 2 Lloyd’s Rep. 407.

     

    Where do you stand on the “two hat” debate over whether arbitrators should also act as counsel? 

    There is really no problem. When I am appointed as an Arbitrator, if there is a conflict I will not accept appointment. International Arbitration is a field with many important debates currently going on, with many suggesting reforms such as Bilateral Arbitration Treaty (Gary Born), regulating the ethical conduct of counsels (Swiss Arbitration Association, London Court of International Arbitration).

     

    Could you discuss the aforementioned suggestions and your take on them or any such significant debates?

    The most important reform which is required is the need of diversity in the clique of international Arbitrators. The current international Arbitrators must be prepared to accept competent Arbitrators in the circle of international Arbitrations. Statistics show that the present international institutions generally favour appointing white Arbitrators from developed countries. This needs to change.

     

    How do you remain updated with all the new developments in the field of international arbitration and mediation?

    There are at present many press and internet mediums which keeps me informed on all the new developments in the field of international Arbitration and Mediation.

     

    What advice do you have for our readers who are primarily college students?

    Always act with integrity and remember the legal profession is an honourable profession and honesty and fairness is the most important duty of a lawyer. The policy which I follow is that I can play with the law because the Judge is there to reject or accept my submissions on law but not under any circumstances play with the facts. If I find that the client has told me a lie in his instructions I would refuse to act for that client. I would not make up stories or allegations on behalf of a client simply to support the client’s case. This approach breads both character and increases credibility before Judges. The five mantras for law students, I would suggest, are:

    • Have a vision on where you want the business to go.
    • Have integrity and honest approach in the work you do.
    • Have courage to have an open mind and an out-of-box approach to progress the business.
    • Make the most of all that comes and the least of all that goes.
    • Forgive people for any wrongdoings against you, and leave it to the universe to deal with them.
  • Shalini Saxena, Lead Legal Counsel, GE Renewable Energy, on being General Counsel, and her diverse experience

    Shalini Saxena, Lead Legal Counsel, GE Renewable Energy, on being General Counsel, and her diverse experience

    Shalini graduated in law from Delhi University in 2000. She started her career at General Electronics. After successful stints at Ibibo Web and Kundra & Bansal, she came back to GE, where she is currently Senior Counsel. Her role entails managing and supervising all aspects of the legal function for the Asia region (India, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, Nepal, Bhutan and Maldives). Shalini is also currently pursuing her Ph.D in law.

    In this interview we speak to her about:

    • Her time as a student
    • Her role at General Electronics
    • Her diverse experience

    Given that most of our readers are law students, how would you introduce yourself to them?

    For as long as I remember I have wanted to be a lawyer. Not because as most think I argue a lot, but because the grey area of interpretation always appealed to me.

     

    Do you come from a family of lawyers?

    My dad did complete his first year in law school, before dropping out. He was in a sense, therefore, the first person to pursue the legal profession in our family.

     

    Can you share some memorable experiences from you time at law school?

    Law campus was great fun. The drive of 80% of that class of IAS exams. City kids take so much as due to them but these students teach you to appreciate and leverage each step. I did the usual moot courts and debates on non legal topics. But desire to understand my subject and not just pass my exams taught me discipline and focus.

     

    What were you areas of interest in law school?

    Definitely not arguing. Like I said, I always wanted to be a lawyer and the desire was to understand my subject.

     

    What motivated you to pursue higher education?

    Rule of the game for a lawyer is to keep yourself abreast of changes and that in this profession comes with reading, reading, and more reading. Can be anything, national/international, journals, judgments, newspapers, research material. Knowledge, if goes deep, is great. Higher education is just one way of keeping at it. When I did my LLM, it was to discipline studying and researching.  It also shows well on your profile, many people are appreciative of candidates that have academic depth. so my advice is to go some what deep into your subject it’ll help in more than one way

     

    What was your first job out of law school?

    My first legal job was as an intern with a Supreme Court senior. I got it by reference but it taught me my greatest lesson – to learn that you have to start at the bottom of the steps.

    Can you tell us about the responsibilities of a Partner and your work profile?

    I actually started my career as an Associate with this law firm and it was when I returned after ten odd years of working as a corporate lawyer that I became a partner. Let me tell you it’s no fun being Partner, it’s a very responsible position, you need to be accountable to your assignments and to making profits for the firm. Many salaries including your own depend on you. The firm dabbled  at a lot of aspects of law and I was jack of many. But soon commercial contracts became my core.

     

    How did you secure an appointment with General Electric?

    It was after my deputation at Electrolux that the idea of being a company lawyer appealed. GE was luck, they were looking and the word passed on. The GE office was across the street from Electrolux, one afternoon I walked over for a meeting and in the next two hours I got the job.  I worked for over four years at GE Money, quit, worked outside  of India for over five years, and then came back to GE.

    GE is in my DNA. I love this company. I joined as a risk attorney for a business vertical– a position that is not that of a lawyer – it does risk analsyis of deals, tenders, contracts, countries, etc. In fact, there was another lawyer on the job and we both worked together. A year later I got the job of both the lawyer and risk attorney and my portfolio expanded to be the legal counsel for GE power and water, which was five business verticals.

    A lawyer at GE has a seat of the table with business. We are not legal counsels, we are business counsels. As business enablers we work from identifying risk to mitigating them to negotiation for contracts to ensuring completion. Add to this, driving integrity and compliance in the company.

     

    How do you deal with transnational legal challenges?

    MNCs in today’s commercial world have many regulators. There are many guidelines that need to be adhered to. Complex business environments just add to the situation.  As lawyers, we are aware of the judicial process and workings thereof. They have improved but there is still scope for more. As a company with pan India varied operations our biggest challenge is to work in a legally compliant manner. As a global company we have business operations across the world. For e.g. there will be 300+ lawyers in GE across the world. Knowledge sharing and team work b/w these 300 odd lawyers helps address challenges even when they cross borders and go international.

     

    You were also the general counsel at Ibibo. How did you secure this position?

    This is the position I went to when I left GE money, my first stint at GE. When I joined Ibibo it was a start up but had gone off ground. It still needed a lot of processes and policies to be set up and implemented.

    While my day job was to support Ibibo as a company operating as a platform, the parent MIH was a strategic investor in start ups, new ventures, like an angel investor. Mergers/acquisition/investment were the other big things I worked on, not just for India but Asia.

     

    Can you tell our readers about the general nature of work and responsibilities of a general counsel?

    As a General Counsel you will definitely be responsible for a business. You may be leader for a team. Your job will vary- admin stuff, HR support, contracts, strategic discussion. All these are related to business targets and development. The other key job a GC has is to invest in his/her team and enable them to learn and develop along with the business. A GC needs to be competent at his/her job but also have the ability to build a team that fills the gap in knowledge or attitude that a team needs to be successful. Accountability and integrity are other important aspects of any leader including a GC.

     

    What made you decide to take the path of being a general counsel as opposed to working in a law office?

    I’m a better negotiator than a litigator. The best way to progress is to know your strength and weakness. A litigator works at a very limited and high level manner on lets say a contract- for e.g. breach by a party of contract terms. An in-house counsel works from the inception of the idea to creation of the contract and then navigates dispute and supports the external lawyer with litigation.  My day is ‘walk my job’ – I’m in early to my workplace so the first couple of hours I clear up my inbox and do all my tough tasks of the day, eat the frog!!

    I then go through projects I support, meetings, calls, updates, trainings. Add to my list of to-dos for the rest of the day/week. Most importantly I talk to my team, business and other functions / catch up with colleagues for coffee. I need to have fun on my job.

     

    What are your views on corporate social responsibility?

    I’m a huge believer in CSR, but may not be the CSR that companies do. That being said, I see many companies do great CSR activities which do more than tick the box. They help the disprivileged, give back to society. Teaching students/allowing internship programs / slum courts, etc. are all great ways of giving back in this profession.

     

    How do you remain updated with all the new developments in your fields of interest and practice?

     

    Read, read, and then read some more. Once a month I try to get my hands around any significant judgment passed. Newsletters created by law firms is another great way to being updated. We are on the mailing list for few. On some important portals I have set some word triggers. Any article that picks these words will find its way to my inbox.

     

    What advice do you have for our readers who are primarily college students?

    Start as a litigating lawyer, the grounding that procedure of court imbibes is unparalleled.  Inculcate and practice reading and researching. do try an in-house position – one should not write off anything without having practiced it.

     

     

  • Hemant Batra, Founder, Kaden Boriss Global, on working at AMSS and the UN, and his diverse experience

    Hemant Batra, Founder, Kaden Boriss Global, on working at AMSS and the UN, and his diverse experience

    Hemant Batra graduated in law from Panjab University, in 1991. He is a corporate, commercial, business and strategist lawyer. He is the founder and Chairman of Kaden Boriss Global, a legal and business strategist organization of global law firms and offices. Kaden Boriss was founded in 2003 by international and business laws specialist lawyers Hemant Batra and Preeti Batra. The intellectual property rights (IPR) in the trade mark and copyright of legal brand Kaden Boriss (KB) vests with Hemant Batra. As a Chairperson of Kaden Boriss, a Corporate & Commercial law firm, he is responsible for firm’s mentorship. His role in the law firm is to advise on strategy relating to any legal transaction or matter. He also steers cross-border & international legal transactions for clients. In the law firm he is also responsible for overseeing execution of selective legal consulting and services assignments for clients.

    In this interview we speak to him about:

    • Founding his own organisation
    • Working with the United Nations
    • His passion for music

    What made you decide to pursue an LLB after obtaining a BA degree? 

    While pursuing a BA in Humanities, I started to eliminate the career path, which I was not inclined to embrace at all. In late 1980s, I saw everybody around me was interested in the professions of engineering, medicine or civil services. I eliminated the engineering and medicine fields because they appeared quite run-of-the-mill and unremarkable. Initially, civil services, especially Indian police services did attract and excite me. However, on closer analysis, I eliminated that option as well for a couple of reasons – one, I noticed that there was too much political interference in civil services; in fact, I found civil servants being at the mercy of politicians, all the time; secondly, I was not too impressed by the remunerative compensation of government employees. Hence, I decided on the legal profession. It had too many appealing features. I was an accomplished orator, it offered me an opportunity to showcase my oratory skills. I wanted to be a strategic counselor and successful entrepreneur. The legal field was the best option to be on my own. It offered independence and presented means of earning sufficient wealth through absolute lawful means. Above all, I wanted to be a proficient and acclaimed global lawyer. Thus, I chose legal field to be my career path.

    I had chosen public administration, economics and political science as my subjects in BA. These subjects are/were very close to the legal system and commandments of law. These subjects literally became a bridge between BA and LLB, for me.

    It is my strong belief that humanities and law subjects are the ideal combination, for a career in law; be it law practice or legal services.

     

    How was your experience in law school? Do you think law schools produce socially relevant lawyers?

    I did my LLB from the Chandigarh Law Faculty, in the campus of Punjab University. The campus was very modern in terms of building and infrastructure. It was a stand-alone dedicated campus. The size of class or batch was not more than 100–120 students, if I remember correctly. The faculty was very strong, comprising some brilliant professors and authors. Even Senior Lawyers used to visit us as visiting faculty. The student–teacher ratio was 7:1, which was quite impressive.  I had an outstanding experience as a law student. The fellow students were very friendly and teachers exceedingly helpful. I carry wonderful memories of those times. Yes, the law schools do offer great opportunities to become socially relevant lawyers by becoming part of community, pro-bono and human rights driven legal programmes. Even in my times of student life, we had these programmes. We were inculcated with the values of serving the community in part-time, compulsorily or whole-time, optionally. However, at the end these become more of self-made choices. Law schools can only show you the right path and values; they can’t hand-hold you.   

     

    Did you participate in any extracurricular activities such as moots, debates or undertake any internships in law school? 

    Yes, I did participate in the extracurricular activities. In fact, moots was a compulsory subject. I participated in moots in all three years. I also participated in the debates and declamation contests. Internships, in our days was meant only for the last semester i.e. sixth. This was compulsory. For other semesters, it was optional. I did use to visit the High Court as a law student to observe some key hearings. All these practical activities helped me enormously in my becoming an accomplished lawyer. In order to become a skilled lawyer, one should have multiple traits and qualities – analytical approach, patience, hardworking, articulate, clear and effective oration, humility and so on. The extracurricular activities contribute overwhelmingly in bringing out the best in you. I am of the robust view that in the legal profession practical training and experience surpasses theoretical part. Therefore, the extracurricular activities and practical training should not only be made mandatory but must be made part of day to day curriculum.        

     

    What are your areas of interest in the legal field? 

    I graduated and got enrolled as a lawyer in 1991. At that time the only area of law practice was litigation. In litigation, most lawyers were general practitioners. Primarily, litigation involved civil, criminal and revenue matters. I actually wanted become an arguing counsel but destiny had something else stored for me. I joined Amarchand Mangaldas & Hiralal Shroff & Co., Solicitors in 1991 as an Associate. I was working alongside Shardul and Pallavi Shroff, who were the Managing Partners of the law firm. I got exceptional opportunities as a young fresher. I do not think anyone could get such opportunities in today’s times. In 1991, each day, I was given legal briefs to argue in the Delhi High Court (and sometimes even Supreme Court and Company Law Board). They trusted my capabilities and strengths. Between 1991 and 1994, I argued innumerable cases in several courts, tribunals and forums. However, the process of economic liberalization issued in 1991 by the Indian Government started to take shape in 1994. A new field and area of practise started to emerge for law practitioners. This got to be known as non-litigation or FDI law practise. It became a fashion statement to brand yourself as a corporate and commercial lawyer. I ventured into this area of practise. I became a connoisseur of cross-border investments related documentation and regulatory work. I got tremendous opportunities to handle complicated M&A and JV transactions. I started to enjoy the globetrotting attached with this kind of law practise. From a litigation lawyer, I transitioned into a business lawyer. I walked away from courts, where I always wanted to be. I have no regrets because I thoroughly enjoyed then and even now the challenges and luxuries of being a corporate lawyer. My core areas of practise cover corporate and commercial matters, FDI, economic laws, mergers, acquisitions, cross border investments, joint ventures, corporate compliances, corporate governance, corporate social responsibility, commercial agreements, transactional documentation, private equity, regulatory work, agreements, anti-corruption, anti-bribery compliance and legal auditing.         

     

    How did you secure an appointment at AMSS? 

    At that time, AMSS was known as AMHS. I was waiting for my final semester results of LLB, I approached AMHS directly at New Delhi office. I religiously used to visit the AMHS law firm office to secure interview. I succeeded after a gap of one week to get an interview with Shardul Shroff. I had an interaction of about half hour with him. He was then a lawyer of about eleven to twelve years’ experience. He liked my answer to one of the questions, where I said that for me AMHS is a gurukul and you my guru to be.’ I told him categorically that AMHS was a training ground for me, hence, I didn’t expect any remuneration. I was recruited as a Trainee and then once, I got my degree and enrolment, I was designated as an Associate. At that time the recruitment was done personally by Shardul and Pallavi. The criteria was primarily instinctive and first impression coupled with honesty and smartness of the candidate. My experience was absolutely outstanding. Whatever heights in legal profession, I have attained, I owe it to Shardul and Pallavi. Right on day one, they pushed me in to the turbulent legal waters so that I could become a swimmer in the rapids. I gained experience of more than a decade in just four years. In four years, I was capable enough to give run for money to lawyers with experience of ten years plus.      

     

    What motivated you to found Kaden Boriss Global?

    When I was travelling globally and that too extensively in mid 1990s and onwards, I realized that I should have an international brand with which foreign clients could relate to easily. I thought of establishing a law firm and a network of international offices with an international name so that people associate with it an MNC and not a domestic institution.  Kaden Boriss is a combination of two expressions – ‘Kaden’ and ‘Boriss’. The ethnic origin of these expressions can predominantly be found in the Swedish Germanic and Slavic languages and also partially in the classical Arabic language. `Kaden’ means a Companion and Boriss means a Warrior. When this name was coined on 15th August, 2003 me with the assistance of my international financial lawyer wife Preeti W. Batra, the idea was two-fold – (1) the law firm had to become a global phenomenon with presence all across the world, hence name had to be truly international, which one and all could relate to regardless of origin, race, language or dialect; and (2) the law firm had to become an unconventional outfit with emphasis on progressive legal services and strategy. Hence, the formula was to become a `Companion’ to our clients with a `Warrior’ like instinct. In other words, in this tough world clients need a companion who is a warrior. I am the registered owner of the IPR in Kaden Boriss brand.

    Initially, Kaden Boriss ventured into a highly innovative domain by assuming role of a knowledge processing consulting and legal services company. It engaged in undertaking legal & para-legal consulting assignments for Multi-National clients seeking to contract out their in-house legal, para-legal and strategic advisory, regulatory and compliance work. Between 2003 – 2011, Kaden Boriss under my leadership undertook extensive projects in Americas, Australia, Austria, Bangladesh, Bhutan, China, Czech Republic, Dubai, England, Germany, Holland, Hong Kong, Hungary, India, Indonesia, Kuwait, Italy, Maldives, Nepal, Philippines, Russia, South Korea, Sri Lanka and Thailand involving legal cross-border transactions, business acquisitions, mergers, takeover, private equity deals, commercial documentation, research on legal and para-legal issues, regulatory approvals, compliances, due-diligence, legal auditing and formulation of business strategies. Kaden Boriss operated from multiple satellite and project offices at that time. It comprised of team of Legal, IT, Software, Secretarial and Commercial professionals who are experts/specialists in undertaking high-end consulting projects of varied faculties.

    One of its divisions, also provided a cost and time saving solutions to the everyday challenges of making reports, presentations and other research-based documents like legal auditing, articles on general as well as technical issues and papers amongst others for business organizations, professionals and individuals. Its services represented a logical alternative for business organizations and individuals who didn’t want to waste their precious resources on such assignments but wanted to concentrate on their core area of activity. Kaden Boriss grew to become one-stop window for solutions to all legal and para-legal problems/issues.

    The only hurdle was that Indian clients initially thought that Kaden Boriss was a foreign law consulting firm like McKenzie or something, which it was not. The perception was that it was a consulting company and not a law firm. This was eventually overcome.

    The traits and fame of Kaden Boriss in executing legal and para-legal work for businesses and industry leaders all across the globe with utmost integrity, confidentiality, commitment, effort and efficiency started to spread far and wide.

    Hence, in 2009 Kaden Boriss formally adopted the Swiss Verein kind of structure. I and my wife Preeti W. Batra found this business model as an effective medium of offering Kaden Boriss as a single global brand with its member or group firms being able to maintain their independent status as separate legal entities as well as financially and administratively. The Kaden Boriss evolved as a commercially vibrant ‘goodwill’ service brand with ideal brand equity.

     

    You are, and have been in the past, the Vice President of SAARCLAW. Can you tell us about the role of this organisation and your job profile as its VP?

    South Asian Association For Regional Co-operation in Law, SAARCLAW, is an association of the legal communities of the eight SAARC countries comprising judges, lawyers, academicians, law teachers, public officers and a host of other law-related persons, duly registered with the SAARC Secretariat at Kathmandu and awarded the status of a Regional Apex Body Of SAARC. It owes its origin to the desire of the members of the legal community to establish an association within the SAARC region to disseminate information and to promote an understanding of the concerns and developments of the region.

    SAARCLAW was established in Colombo on 24th October 1991. I have been associated with SAARCLAW since its inception. I have been its Secretary General for three terms of two years each. Presently as Vice President, I represent India on the Executive Council. Office bearers enjoy quasi-diplomatic status. I have been instrumental in helping SAARCLAW establish a permanent Secretariat in Kathmandu. In my tenure as SG, I worked out several joint ventures between SAARCLAW and international institutions like UNDP, UNAIDS, IDLO, ADB etc. The Annual SAARCLAW Conferences have been acclaimed as affording an opportunity to its members for interaction, exchange of ideas and for forging a spirit of solidarity. It has been the convention since 1995 to hold a conference of the Chief Justices of the SAARC countries concurrently with the Annual SAARCLAW Conference. This feature has become institutionalized now and offers a forum for the exchange of thoughts and views of the Chief Justices of our countries.

    In its more than 25 years of existence, the members of SAARCLAW have persistently worked towards the achievement of its objectives of bringing together the legal communities within the region for closer co-operation, development of understanding, promotion of exchange of ideas and dissemination of information, and to use and develop law as a source and an instrument towards social change for development as well as for building co-operation among the peoples of the region.

     

    You have worked closely with the United Nations in several capacities. Can you tell us about the experience?

    First and foremost, any job with UN bodies requires a systematic approach. One is required to be passionate about certain areas of activities, which may be of concern to the relevant UN body. Before being eligible to undertake projects or assume positions with UN bodies, the readers interested in joining such bodies will have to execute some projects independently or with some non-profit outfits or NGOs. The vacant positions of UN bodies are widely publicized and displayed on their respective websites. The process of recruitment and hiring is very transparent and merit based.   

     

    Can you tell our readers about the role of the aforesaid organisations as well as your role as a member of UNAIDS?

    (Hemant has been a member of UNAIDS and has also been a Regional Observer at the Global commission on HIV and Law. He also works in association with UNDP to address the issue of AIDS.)

    It is officially estimated that over two million people in India are living with HIV. Though unofficial figures could be much higher. In other words, the people affected with HIV in India equal the population of cities like Chicago, Houston, Paris and Rome. Another example being that HIV affected people in India equals population of two Mauritius put together. Children (less than fifteen years) account for 6.54%, while two fifth (40.5%) of total HIV infections are among females. I have been working very closely with various UN bodies and international institutions working for the upliftment of marginalized population, be it LGBT community or sex workers. I was nominated to some key committees of UNAIDS, UNDP and UNESCAP; and also IDLO to facilitate diverse projects and programmes in resolving legal hurdles in dealing with people affected with HIV and AIDS. I helped in orientation of several stake holders and also introducing new legislation in South Asia to ensure that there was no discrimination encountered by the people especially women affected by HIV and AIDS at their work place and hospitals. I was instrumental in getting key members of the judiciary, executive and legislature from most South Asian countries on these committees. Several publications were co-authored and edited by me in this direction. India is severely affected by HIV and AIDS. Government and Judiciary have taken some fundamental steps in the direction of dealing with this reality.     

    Kaden Boriss, in association with National university of Singapore, founded an initiative called ‘International Infrastructure and Construction Law Arbitration Moot (IICLAM)’. What was the reason behind doing so? Why did you choose this particular topic for the moot? How do you think mooting contributes to a law student’s holistic development?

    I have worked very closely with an eminent Professor from NUS, Prof. Alan Tan. He was Vice Dean in the Law Faculty at the relevant time. We both decided to bring Kaden Boriss, NUS and Singapore International Arbitration Centre (SIAC) under one roof to deal with the most challenging legal proposition in the developing nations. We identified infrastructure as the key pillar of development in any developing nation. The transactions of infrastructure involve several contracts and agreements with serious and complicated legal implications. Through IICLAM, we resolved to engage the next generation lawyers i.e. law students in resolution of legal disputes in the infrastructure – construction law related matters. The moot competition also enriched law students’ knowledge on the ADR mechanism.

     

    You are a senior expert at Geoman Bind, a legal and policy research think tank. Can you tell our readers about the nature of work you do there, as well as the importance of think tanks in policy making?

    This is the future of legal and policy arena. Goeman Bind HTO is a private non-profit international legal and policy advisory and research think-tank. It is cerebrally and academically supported by patrons from Australia, China, Dubai, France, Germany, Holland, Indonesia, Malaysia, Romania, Russia, Singapore, Slovakia, USA and UK. It stimulates legal experts and academia to offer knowledge to the patrons and inspires policy specialists to share expertise with the recipients. It engages in legal and policy research and advisory while creating a knowledge bank within reachable horizon. Goeman Bind HTO is a unifying process or manifestation of valued and iconic traits of expert legal professionals. It is unique fora of research, resource and legal advisory. This not for profit initiative of combining advisory, research and a think-tank stream under one banner was first conceptualized in 2008 in the form of a platform of like-minded intellectuals, professionals, experts and academicians in the field of law and policy.  Goeman aims to bring under one roof about 50 leading experts and academia in the legal and policy gamut from across the world who could afford the utmost excellence in research, recommendation, opinion and advisory on a complete array of legal issues and policy matters. Goeman provides for a prospect to experts and academia in the legal and policy gamut from all across the world, carrying knowledge and well-versed deliberation to the community dialogue of legal and policy strategy sets. Goeman is projected to become a niche global network of highly qualified academicians, legal and policy advisers. I am involved in couple of legal and policy projects dealing with child labour and child abuse. I am also moderator and referee for some research projects.

     

    You are the chairman of the South Asia committee of the Indian National Bar Association. Would you tell our readers about the work of the INBA and your role in it?

    I am yet to get fully involved in this particular task. Due to paucity of time and other prior engagement, I have not been able to give much time to INBA. But I propose to involve INBA in the forthcoming SAARCLAW conference in Colombo. INBA has tremendous potential and its live wire Kaviraj Singh is a man of amazing abilities and ideas. He is a man who could be highly relevant in bringing about positive changes in the lives of young legal professionals.

     

    Do you find that the Indian education system requires improvement? 

    (Hemant has been a visiting faculty at the Indian School of Business and the FORE School of management.)

    Yes definitely, the Indian system requires fundamental reforms. First and foremost, we need to grow out of the mental block of professional degrees. Profession has nothing to do with professional degrees. We need to inculcate and encourage the natural instincts amongst our students. If any student is good in poetry or music or sports or drama, we need to inspire him or her to embrace the same as a career. In the Indian dispersion as to career path, we have a pre-set mind that career means being an engineer, doctor or lawyer; and rest follows. It is important that students should be given an option to move and shift from their original courses as is possible in US. Indian students get stuck with their courses what they choose at the first instance. It is important that down the line, if that particular course doesn’t interest them, they should have the option of choosing or moving to another course. Further, practical aspects need to be introduced more and more in any career path. Regarding, advise to the students, I would only say follow your passion not the flock. If your passion becomes your profession, sky is the limit. Accomplishment is a relative term at the end of the day.    

     

    You are greatly interested in music. Can you tell us about this interest and how you have pursued it? 

    Music is like meditation for me. It is a means of recharge. I have not had any formal training in music. I started composing and arranging music in 2002. I made a small studio at home in which, I would disappear for hours together. Now, I have an ultra-modern studio with state of the art gadgets and equipments. I launched my brand label `Urf Hekbat’. Urf means alias or also known as. Hekbat is a combination of He for Hemant K for Kumar and Bat for Batra. Initially, I was hesitant to share in the public domain that I was doing music, so I launched this brand name. I launched twin albums of lounge music genre in 2012, which was a big hit. My music started playing in international night clubs and lounges and pubs. In many fashion shows abroad including Berlin fashion show, models walked ramp on my music. I have no commercial agenda for music and it is mere hobby or should I say little more than a hobby. With experience, I can now not only compose music on my own but also create videos for my music tracks. When I was approaching 40s in my age, I felt I was burning out fast in search of fame and wealth. God was really kind to me as by the age of 40, I had earned enough that I could retire and settle down without doing any further work. But this had come at the cost of humongous hard work and stress. Hence, to continue further in profession, I needed a stress-buster hobby and nothing could have been better than music.    

     

    You have pursued courses in corporate law and the procedural laws of the United States at Harvard Law School and the University of Pennsylvania respectively. How have such courses helped you in your career? 

    Both my children are studying in the United States. I really like the US system of education. I was invited by Harvard Law School to be part of their project regarding legal profession and its international dimensions. This project was being undertaken in collaboration with Indian School of Business, Hyderabad. I became part of this project and gained a lot in terms of experience. I was given lecturer’s role as well. In so far as University of Pennsylvania is concerned as I mentioned that my children live in USA, I wanted to get hold of the basics of US laws, hence, this course.  

     

    What are the challenges you have faced in building your career as it stands today? 

    I compare legal profession with a space shuttle. When the space shuttle takes off from the launch pad, it emanates huge fire and steam because it assumes too much stress and pressure. Many a times space shuttles blows off and burns while if it doesn’t it goes into the orbit – universe. Likewise, legal profession in the initial years is very testing and stressful but if one can withhold that pressure and steer on with hard work; sky is the limit. I struggled and worked really hard in the initial 5-8 years but after that the growth was vertical. I achieved my targets and aspirations quite early in my career. This profession is very fulfilling and accomplishing. It gives you independence, freedom and command in every which way. It only expects hard-work, discipline and accountability.   

     

    What are the characteristics you would look for while recruiting young lawyers? 

    Predominantly, I try to see through a candidate in a way that I could identify if he or she has an urge to learn. Legal profession commences with a learning process and then turns into an employment or job or a remunerative arrangement. If one is keeping fiscal expectations in the forefront then he or she is not my choice. Remuneration is important but not fundamental. Learning and training is everything in the initial years. I also look for a cutting edge. Why should I hire you? Is my standard last question. The candidate has to show me, why him or her over others. CGPA is one of the features, we look at but that is not the whole and sole deciding factor.

     

    How have you used your media exposure to influence specific aspects of the legal discourse in India?

    (Hemant has been invited to express your opinion in mass media such as newspapers, magazines and TV shows. You wield unique influence over the legal discourse in India.)

    When you become an experienced legal professional and lawyer, you become a significant resource for any kind of media and medium. I have always believed that experience and knowledge not shared is a waste. I have selflessly shared knowledge at any given opportunity.

     

    What do you think are some of the legal challenges India’s legal fraternity faces today?

    I think in today’s times the biggest legal challenge our fraternity faces is coping up with the ever changing technology. Those who will not change with the changing needs of time will get wiped out. Way back in 1996, a distinguished law professor from UK, Richard Susskind in his book `The Future of Law’ noted that changes in technology will fundamentally, irreversibly and comprehensively change legal practice, the administration of justice, and the way in which non-lawyers handle their legal and quasi-legal affairs. Law has to be viewed as a business and a profession. In fact, to better understand the transformation of legal practice from a profession traditionally made up of small independent firms to a multi-billion dollar global business; Harvard Law School had long back established the Center on Lawyers and the Professional Services Industry. “Law firms and other professional service providers are now a critical part of the global economy,” said Harvard Law School Professor David Wilkins.

     

    How can India better its legal regime so that it is more efficient, inclusive and in alignment without nations development goals?

    I think this can be achieved by opening up the legal profession beyond borders, introducing a high notch of accountability so as to discipline the legal professionals and carrying out day to day systematic orientation. We need to realize that hundreds and thousands of students graduate each year in law and eventually get enrolled as lawyers. There is a massive gap in theory and practise. We need to bridge this gap by orientation and proper placements.  

     

    Can you describe a regular day in your life for our readers? 

    For me it is a five day week in so far as work is concerned. I start my day early, I am in office by 7:30/8:00 AM. I work at stretch be it desk work or meetings until 2:00 PM. I take lunch and rest between 2.00 – 3.30 PM. I am back to work and wind-up around 7:30/8:00 PM. I try to keep meeting outside office for not more than 2 days (preferably one day) a week. Saturday is a hobby day for me when I do music compositions in my music studio. Sunday is totally for family and friends. I am travelling out of Delhi or India seven to ten days a month on an average.

     

    How would you describe your long and illustrious career in the legal field? 

    I think some of the most eventful or accomplishing landscapes of my career are as follows –

    • Opportunity to work very closely with Shardul and Pallavi Shroff gave me an initial head start in profession.
    • My association at the threshold of the profession with legal luminaries like Justice P.N. Bhagwati, Justice A.M. Ahmadi, Justice R. C. Lahoti, Justice U. C. Banerjee, Mr. P.P. Rao and Mr. K. K. Venugopal boosted my self-esteem and gave me a confident pitch.
    • My association with SAARCLAW at a very young age and victory in all elections at the domestic and international level for the offices therein, gave me tremendous visibility.
    • I was assigned complicated international legal transactions for global clients like Bayer, Suzuki, LG, Godfrey Philips, Kuwait Royalty, AMEX, WU and many more. These transactions took me across borders. I began to be getting recognized as a global corporate and commercial layer.
    • When I founded Kaden Boriss, it was an ultimate feather in my legal cap.
    • And now with Goeman Bind HTO, I stand recognized as a Policy Expert and Thinker.      

     

    What advice do you have for our readers who are primarily college students?

    My advice to the young students is that keep your feet firmly on the ground. Legal profession is the only profession in the world where growth is vertical, if you are determined, hard-working and disciplined. These three qualities work like a magic potion for assured success. And always be humble.   

     

  • Navneet Hrishikesan, Director & Head of Service Provider Legal-Asia Pacific & Japan, Cisco, on his time at NLSIU, working at Wipro, and his diverse experience

    Navneet Hrishikesan, Director & Head of Service Provider Legal-Asia Pacific & Japan, Cisco, on his time at NLSIU, working at Wipro, and his diverse experience

    Navneet graduated from NLSIU in 1999. He is currently the Legal Director for Cisco’s Global Service Provider segment responsible for the Asia-Pacific & Japan region. In his role, Navneet leads a team that manages all legal matters related to Cisco’s telecom service provider customers in the Australia/ New Zealand, Japan, ASEAN, Korea and India/ SAARC theatres. He is also a member of the Asia Pacific & Japan- Service Provider management board. Prior to joining Cisco, Navneet was the Head of Legal/ General Counsel for Wipro’s Americas Geography based in Boston, MA. In that role, Navneet was a member of its Americas management team and led a team of lawyers advising on all matters arising in the region, including: outsourcing agreements, mergers and acquisitions, customer disputes/ bankruptcy issues, employment matters and regulatory issues (incl. licensing and privacy). Before Wipro, Navneet was an Associate in the IT & Telecoms practice of the law firm, Simmons & Simmons, based in London.

    In this interview we speak to him about:

    • His time at NLSIU
    • Law and social responsibility
    • His diverse experience

    What was it that got you interested in the legal field?

    Like with most other things in my life, I blundered into it, is probably the best answer here. Looking back at it though, I would say there were a couple of things that combined to drive me to law. I was not a fan of maths and the sciences but loved history and the other humanities disciplines. The law was therefore a logical step forward once I completed school. A bit like, what I am told happens, in an arranged marriage, my love for the discipline blossomed only after I joined NLS.

    There was no real family connection, though my paternal grandfather was a lawyer in Kerala much before I was born. Since I grew up in Assam, however, this didn’t benefit or impact me in any manner.

     

    How was your experience in NLSIU?

    Back in 1994, NLS was a small place, really far from town, and as they say in the theme song of “Cheers” – everyone knew your name. Of course, the downside was that since everyone knew you, once they formed an impression of you, you were more or less stuck with it for five years. All in all though, I had a lot of fun and the place was very good to me. We didn’t have much in the way of resources, but the students and teachers were passionate and that helped the institution grow both in resources and reputation.

    Do you think law schools produce socially relevant lawyers?

    To brutally paraphrase John Donne, “No Law is an island, entire of itself”. In other words, all laws need to work within the context of the society. If one draws this analogy out even further, all lawyers (since we engage with/ interpret the laws) do socially relevant work, irrespective of the type of law they practice.

    A bit controversial perhaps but can one honestly say that, because someone only does commercial work of a M&A or private equity variety (or technology law, for that matter), they are not socially relevant? I could make a strong  argument  that working for a technology company has more of a relative social impact/ relevance in India today (looking at it through the lens of employment and revenue generated), than, and I mean no disrespect here, working for a NGO focussed on a certain demographic or issue.

    Let me provide a personal example- My company (and team) was instrumental in helping an Indian conglomerate build a recently launched Indian cellular network. This conglomerate is not popular with the chattering classes for a variety of reasons including the height of its promoter’s residence, but the network, on the other hand, is noteworthy for the remarkably low prices it charges for making calls and accessing the internet. While this is obviously an interesting change for people like me who remember fifteen Rupee a minute phone calls, the disruption caused by a service like this is most felt among the financially unprivileged classes (think cab drivers or even your local kirana store). Think how much it helps the people who are working hard to make their Rupee go further. Isn’t this offering socially relevant? Following from that, aren’t my lawyers who worked on this deal doing something that is socially relevant?

    That said, if the question is whether law schools produce lawyers who are focused on the improvement of society (as opposed to commercial considerations), I would say that the numbers are very small. The issue is not so much the law schools themselves but the lack of financial and other support for the students so inclined.  There is no real use pushing the social benefit message, if at the end of it all, the only reasonably well-paying jobs are those in the corporate or commercial fields. As a profession we need to do more in encouraging people to go into the social sector. That doesn’t mean that there aren’t some people, despite the odds, trying to “be the change”. I have had the opportunity to see the wonderful work being done by people like my NLS classmate Shamnad Basheer and IDIA Law (idialaw.com) and feel that we don’t do enough to celebrate such uplifting examples.

     

    Did you participate in any extracurricular activities such as moots, debates or undertake any internships in law school?

    I took part in a lot of ‘extracurricular’ activities during law school, but not ones that I am willing to elaborate on in a public forum. On a more serious note, I didn’t take part in moots or the like though, which in hindsight was probably a mistake. If I were to make a second go of it, I would probably take part in all extracurricular activities at least once, just to see if I found something that really interested me. I did undertake several internships while I was at law school though and I found them very illuminating in helping me choose the kind of jobs that interested me.

    During the late 90s, career options for a young law graduate were fairly limited. Litigation was not really an option as I didn’t want to live off my parents anymore and while there were many law firms, they were mostly all family-run at that time and hence were a dead-end for someone with no familial connections to the owners/ partners.

    This left one with the in-house option. The problem was that most people felt (some, I suspect, do so even now) that in-house lawyers don’t do any “real” work.  My fifth year internship with Hindustan Unilever under B.S. Dhillon, who ran their Western India region at that time, dispelled most of my concerns in this regard and convinced me that being in-house was what excited me.

    Personal highlight during internships: Taking the Harbour Line from Bandra to CBD Belapur during internship in Mumbai – I was prepared to do any work, anywhere, after taking that brutal train ride every morning.

     

    What was your first job out of law school?

    I was lucky to get a placement as a Management Trainee with SmithKline Beecham Consumer Healthcare (a.k.a the Horlicks company, now Glaxo SmithKline) through campus recruitment at law school.

    The company was (and is) a leader in the FMCG sector. Being a Management Trainee, I spent close to a year being trained in the real world and it gave me a solid understanding of how a modern enterprise works. After working with various functions including the factories, HR, sales and the like, I was deputed as a newly minted Assistant Manager to an JD-Edwards ERP IT project. Never having had a technical bent of mind, this was a sharp learning curve for me and instilled in me an interest in technology – kind of ironic actually, given my lack of affection for the sciences while growing up.

    I also learned, fairly quickly, that dealing with the Factories Act and matters related to the Prevention of Food Adulteration and Weights and Measures didn’t really float my boat, so to speak. I therefore decided that I wanted to try something new and then Wipro happened.

    Personal highlight at SmithKline: A ‘Vikram’ Tempo with me (and Horlicks) in it narrowly missing a woman unconcernedly crossing one of the narrow lanes of Kolkata. If that vehicle had not been able to avoid her, I probably would not have been here answering these questions.

     

    How did you secure an appointment as a Legal Manager at Wipro?

    A couple of my classmates (with much better CGPAs, I might add) were working with Wipro at that time and since one of them had decided to leave, they had a vacancy. Akila Agrawal (a NLS classmate and now a partner with Amarchand) asked if I would be interested and I submitted my resume. I was interviewed and, for some unclear reason, perhaps because I was the only one in the room who knew what an ERP was, they decided to give me the job.

    While I was grateful for the opportunity given to me by Wipro, I had also taken a chance joining them. This was before the IT craze had set in and at that time Wipro was not the large behemoth it has now become and well, the salary being offered was just about half of what I was making at SmithKline. I however knew that I had a chance to learn new things in an area that was still in its infancy. It also helped that Wipro was in Bengaluru, a city I had enjoyed while at NLS.

    It was a great decision in hindsight, for two reasons:

    During my four years at Wipro, the company grew in size from $300 Million to close to $1 Billion in annual revenue and I got fantastic exposure – from leading contract negotiations and implementing compliance programs to managing arbitrations and acquisitions, I delved into every area that Wipro was in. It was tough at times. I remember this nine month period during which I was the only IT lawyer in Wipro and used to work eighteen to twenty hour days, every day, including weekends. I can confidently say that this stint at Wipro formed the foundation of my development as a commercial lawyer.

    The second (definitely more important reason for me, perhaps not so great for her) was that I met my soon-to-be wife, who is also a lawyer, in Bengaluru while at Wipro.

    Personal highlight of first stint at Wipro: Holding an original Oscar statuette that a customer had received for services to the motion picture industry (disappointingly, I was not allowed to give a speech while doing so).  

     

    From being an in-house counsel at Wipro you went on to be an Associate at Simmons & Simmons. What caused you to leave Wipro?

    The offer from Simmons came out of the blue. I had worked with them on a couple of transactions while at Wipro and when David Barrett (then the head of the Technology practice at Simmons) and one of my NLS seniors, Murali Neelakantan, asked if I would be interested in joining them, I thought it would be a great opportunity to learn new things and agreed to move to London.

    Being in a law firm was obviously very different to being in-house and while being at Simmons really helped me develop my technical skills (both in the law and in relation to handling fee paying clients), I found that I missed the level of ownership that one gets while being in-house. In simple terms, in private practice, one can give advice with several caveats and let the client decide, but if you are in-house, you are the client and therefore have to live with the decision that you make. I found that I missed the level of control and context I had while at Wipro.

    Personal highlight at Simmons: Mistakenly introducing a bearded (and in my defence, similar looking), former Indian Minister as Suresh Kalmadi at an India House gala in London. Not the best ‘business development’ moment of my career. He ignored me, very pointedly, at our next meeting.

    You moved back to Wipro as its General Counsel for the Americas. What was your role as the General Counsel for the Americas?

    After a year and a half with Simmons, while I was still mulling whether private practice was where my interest lay, Wipro reached out asking if I would consider running their Legal function for the Americas region. I jumped at the opportunity. This meant a move to Boston for us and as a result my wife had the pleasure of living in  three continents in the first six months of our marriage (personal advice – DO NOT try this at home).

    The Americas region was (and possibly, still is) Wipro’s largest sales region and was an almost complete ‘end-to-end’ role. We were at the frontline of the largest sales deals that Wipro did (we convinced customers to give us a chance on the mega-size outsourcing deals during this period and I worked on some of the largest IT and BPO offshoring contracts in the US) and also independently handled much of the issues that arose in that region including employment disputes, customer disputes, compliance programs, customer bankruptcies, arbitrations and the like.

    I also had the opportunity to lead several acquisitions including one of the largest acquisitions in the IT space of a publicly listed US company.

    After a few years there (and visiting conference rooms in 35 out of the 50 States that comprise the United States), my wife and I decided, for personal reasons, that it was time to come back to India with our two young children.

    During my time in Boston, I had the great fortune to be introduced to Mark Chandler (the GC of Cisco) and some of his leaders, including Graham Allan (my current boss) and I was very impressed with their vision for the industry and Cisco’s Law department. Therefore when a global role opened up in India at Cisco, I decided to try working for an American company in India, as opposed to an Indian company in America. It was (and remains) a great decision.

    Personal highlight of second stint at Wipro: Sneakily ‘borrowing’ a neighbour’s Wall Street Journal at 4AM to verify that our advert offering to buy the shares of a target company was actually printed (I seem to have forgotten to return it or give them my own copy which was delivered to office).

     

    You are the Director of Legal Services at Cisco Systems. Can you tell our readers about your job profile?

    In my current role at Cisco, I lead a team of lawyers who handle all legal issues for our Global Service Provider line of business in the Asia Pacific & Japan region. My team is divided by sales theatres– which includes India/ SAARC, Australia/ New Zealand, Japan, S. Korea & ASEAN (which includes all the countries in the middle from Myanmar to the Philippines). I also co-lead with my senior colleague, Marcus Breaden, the APJC Legal Department. All together our teams support approximately $8 Billion of annual sales revenue (from a global Cisco number of $50 Billion). I am also a member of our regional Service Provider Leadership Board and am on the board of a few Cisco subsidiaries.

    Personal highlight at Cisco: Receiving a personally signed photograph from John Chambers (Chairman and CEO of Cisco) after I asked him a few ‘tough’ questions in a meeting. Learned a lot about leadership that day.

     

    What are the challenges you face in being in charge of the legal affairs of a global enterprise?

    Let me break my answer into a two categories – internal and external.

    Internal:   The challenges vary from country to country. In India specifically, our biggest challenges have been finding the right talent to staff our teams and helping grow our business at a fast pace, while maintaining acceptable margins.

    External: The biggest external concern is understanding and responding to the nature of the changes facing the telecom industry. We live in a world of constant and sudden change largely facilitated by technology and hence this is an area that we constantly think about. I also expect the changes that are coming will have a significant impact on our profession, but that is probably a topic for a separate, much longer discussion. If what I just said interests you, please do take a look at Richard Susskind’s stellar book “The End of Lawyers?”

    Have you ever considered pursuing higher education?

    Short answer is no. I have never considered higher education. 19 years of formal schooling and college were sufficient for me, thank you.

    Unless you are planning a career in academics or research, where higher degrees help (or if someone offers to pay for you and you feel like a holiday), I am not convinced that higher education justifies the expense incurred and time spent, which can be better utilised to build a career.

     

    How important is CGPA, in your opinion?

    Being in-house is very different from the other careers within our profession, mainly due to the importance of understanding the non-legal context of the issue. In other words, we grapple a lot more with business issues and take that into account while deciding the right approach for the company. This needs a different thought process and hence at a high level, the traits I look for in our lawyers are:

    • inquisitiveness: I look for lawyers who are curious about things. In-house roles require you to often go outside your comfort zone, particularly on business issues. Someone who is willing to ask questions and figure out how things work, is usually the one who can give the most relevant advice and spot issues before they become big problems;
    • creativity: I look for people who have an inclination to problem-solve. Saying we cannot do something because it’s a company policy is not an acceptable response;
    • teamwork: I look for lawyers who show a team spirit and have the ability to work with people across cultures (my team as an example is made up of people from five different nationalities); and
    • drive: I look for lawyers with an aggressive, “can-do” attitude. If one waits for all the information before taking a decision, one is often too late.

    When it comes to applying for jobs, I would suggest young lawyers keep three things in mind:

    • Particularly in situations where the number of applicants far exceeds the number of jobs (as is usually the case in India), it’s always a process of elimination, never selection. So, your job is to ensure that you differentiate yourself enough to not be eliminated and obtain an interview call.
    • Do the simple things right- A good start would be to write a professional looking resume – please don’t tell me what your marital status or favourite hobbies are – that will speed up your elimination. Also, please read the job description and write a custom resume for that role (if you write to me asking for a job with my law firm, or, this still makes me laugh – ask me to check your LinkedIn profile, then you guessed it, elimination). Also, spelling and format check, please.
    • If the role is for a fresh graduate, I work on the premise that you don’t have any real knowledge of relevance (in other words, law school doesn’t teach you anything that will help you add value from day one). I will therefore be looking for enthusiasm and a personality that fits with the rest of my team (see traits above).

    On CGPA – I personally don’t think that it is critical for success in our profession, that said, no one wants to hire a slacker and CGPA is often used as a short form measure for it. So, try and improve your CGPA and if it’s too late for that, work on your resume and (once you get an interview) showcasing your enthusiasm.

     

    What advice do you have for our readers who are primarily college students?

    When you are starting your professional career:

    First and foremost – Try to do what you enjoy.  There is a saying that “if you do what you love, you won’t have to work another day in your life”, while this is not technically true (all jobs come with parts one doesn’t like), generally picking an area you like, will help keep you engaged for the long haul. A career is a marathon, not a sprint.

    Second – Choose a job/ role where you can actually learn new things. Don’t, if you can manage, focus too much on the money at the beginning.

    Finally –

    • Be humble – No one likes a smart aleck. Often it’s how you communicate that helps more than what you know. Build bridges and relationships, it will help you in surprising ways.
    • Be proud of your work – this will sound like the opposite of #1 above but isn’t. This doesn’t mean that you should be arrogant, instead, put in the hard hours, do the best at what you do and respect your work. This will differentiate you very, very quickly.
    • You never really grow at the cost of someone else – so don’t play politics or drag other people down. If your work environment requires this, you perhaps need to find another job.

     

    Do you think India needs to revamp its legislations based on the developments in the IT field?

    We have issues with Indian legislation catching up with the recent technology developments and while some, like the recent AADHAR and right to privacy imbroglio are a particular Indian problem (the right to privacy has been an established legal principle in most developed countries for the past few decades), the rate of technological change is so fast nowadays that most legislations and principles will soon need a relook, in my opinion.

    Let us take Intellectual Property as an example, patents in particular.

    Patents were instituted as a way to encourage innovation, the concept was to provide “as little commercial benefit as possible” in return for encouraging inventions. However, over the past many decades, patents have instead become an absolute right, similar to property ownership. Patents have therefore, and very ironically, become the biggest impediment to faster innovation today. As an example – the IEEE 802.11 Wi-Fi standard (which you most likely use if you have Wi-Fi) incorporates 3000 “essential” patents. Imagine the issues you will face if you try to change/ improve how the technology works. This ownership model is just not sustainable.

    We are seeing a world today where:

    • we are moving technologically to the sharing of assets (e.g. data and analysis) to add more value. Think Uber and Airbnb, who help aggregate services using data from others (some of it personal).
    • Think of the questions this raises: If data has to be shared, how does the concept of IP ownership work? Does one ever really own data- if yes, who should own it? If a software/ robot analyses the data, who owns the analysis? Should the owner be the robot or the licensor or the licensee of the software, the service provider/ app developer or the person whose data was analysed? Instead of ownership, should we be looking at an open source type licensing regime?
    • the IPR framework doesn’t really work anymore for new technologies– e.g. do we need monopoly protections in years, when technology changes almost on a daily basis? US patents, as an example, provide 20-year term protections – put in context, 20 years ago was 1997, no Google, no Facebook, no Snapchat, no Uber etc. – how many of the fortune 500 companies from that period are still around today?

    Again, this is a topic for a much longer discussion, but ultimately, most laws will need to keep up with the changes being facilitated by technology (and it would be helpful if the laws that apply were actually drafted in this century).

    Once concepts like Internet of Things, Machine to Machine and Artificial Intelligence become a reality (and this time may come much quicker than what we expect), we will find that our laws (and law firms) will need significant change. I am not too pessimistic about the future though, I expect we will find a way to blunder through it all.

     

    How do you maintain a work life balance?

    I will not respond to this question, since anything I say, can and will be used against me, by my family.

  • Rohit Dangare, Partner, Dangare Sane Associates, on litigation, pro-bono work, and his teaching experience

    Rohit Dangare, Partner, Dangare Sane Associates, on litigation, pro-bono work, and his teaching experience

    Rohit Dangare graduated in law from Symbiosis Law School in 2000. He completed his Masters in Law (LL.M.) from the University of Pune in the year 2004 with specialization in Law of Contract and Criminal law. He has assisted and is associated with legal stalwart Mr. Shrikant Shivade, and has assisted him in high profile cases like ULC Scam, MCOCA, Pen Urban Co-op Bank Scam, among others. He has experience in matters pertaining to Negotiable Instruments Act, Arbitration and criminal cases. He has also assisted such institutions in drafting of various agreements including Non-Disclosure agreements, Barter Agreements and other miscellaneous ones. He has as well worked upon many revisions and appeals in the Hon’ble High Court. He is also a counsel to many accused in the Pen Urban Co-op Bank Scam in Raigad District.

    In this interview we speak to him about:

    • His association with Mr. Shrikant Shivade
    • His independent venture
    • His pro-bono work and teaching experience

    Given that most of our readers are law students, how would you introduce yourself to them? 

    I am a litigation lawyer and we are a rare breed!

     

    What motivated you to pursue a career in the legal field? 

    I come from a family of doctors. I wanted to pursue Pharmacy but I decided to do law because it would be a better option. To a certain extent my parents also pursued me to take law, but it was honestly an out-of-the-box decision to pursue law.

     

    Can you share some memorable experiences from you time at law school?

    I completed my law from Symbiosis Law College. At that time, though attendance was not compulsory, I used to attend lectures. We had lecturers by the likes of Nitesh Nawsagary and Prof. Raste, which made my curiosity for the subject grow. Also, the Indian Evidence Act was one subject to which I was attracted due to an eminent practising lawyer Adv. K.M. Irani. During my college days I was into wildlife conservation and was a founding member of an NGO namely Aaranyawak. I also was active in rescue operations and rescued many animals. I used to attend the chamber of Adv. K.V. Damle. Attending courts gave me a basic idea that advocacy is something which is going to take a lot of hard work and persistence and this prompted me to opt for internships in Mumbai. I interned with L. D. Shah & co., Advocates and Solicitors, where I learned the fundamental ground rule of advocacy, “There is no shortcut to success and you should know your brief like the back of your hand.” During my third year of law I joined Hariani and Company, Advocates and Solicitors having their office in Mumbai and Pune and for the same I am still thankful to Mr. Amit Hariani (Sir), for I did not have any recommendation but I suppose that he has seen some spark in me. I continued this internship till my final year. In Hariani and Co, I was taught that when it comes to law and interpretation of law, there is no senior and no junior, all are equal because age does not make a lawyer successful but his abilitity to interpret law defines his success. I can surely say so because a senior and I differed on some provision of law and in a weekly meeting I was praised by Amit Sir for my better interpretation and many more things. The working hours at Hariani and Company were very hectic for I remember leaving office at odd hours in the night. I also certainly cannot afford to forget Adv. Prasanna Darade who used to make me work very hard and was responsible for building my patience.

    The procedure to secure Traineeship was different in 1999/2000 and it is very different now. I think your scores matter and your extra curricular activities are also taken into consideration as a lawyer because a lawyer has to have a multifaceted personality. I would certainly say that your marks really do not matter if you want to be a litigation lawyer.

     

    What was your first job after college? 

    My first job undoubtedly was going to be with Hariani as I was interning at both their offices in Pune and Mumbai and they had conveyed to me that I should be joining their team, but my parents opposed the concept of me joining Hariani and Company. My parents wanted me to pursue LL.M and hence I was not left with any option but to complete my LL.M. I completed LL.M with specialization in Contract and Crime and I finally decided to work on the Criminal side as I was very much influenced by the theories of Lombroso and especially Bentham. LL.M is necessary for students because it gives you a better and in depth knowledge of law. It is useful to a student if he wishes to pursue his career as a lecturer or professor. Further LL.M would certainly help students who wish to pursue their career in Judiciary.

     

    You have worked with Mr.Shrikant Shivade. Can you tell us about your experience and the nature of your work?  

    My first job/ juniorship was with Adv. Shrikant Shivade and as far as joining Shrikant Shivade Sir, I had to be very patient but after many rounds to his office he was finally convinced to let me in. I don’t remember him even asking for a CV. My first juniorship taught me many things, few of them were that you have to work hard, be dedicated and focused, and the right time will come for you. One more thing I learned is working for Legal Aid i.e., pro-bono (free work) for under trial prisoners gives you a hands on experience and slowly but surely polishes the qualities as a lawyer in you.

    Lawyers learn at the cost of their clients and hence knowledge and seniority matter the most in this profession. While working with Shivade Sir, I got in depth knowledge of the procedure which is very necessary for the practicing lawyer. We generally end up saying that the super lawyers charge super prices, but they have toiled day in and day out to reach that position and to make a mark and they have those special developed skills which are rare to come by. I learnt that a lawyer should be imaginative, should put his early days of practice in observing the cross examinations and if given an opportunity, polish and or develop the skills of cross examination. In subsequent years of practice what matters are the cross examination and the art of cross examination cannot be imparted upon you but has to be acquired after a long and hard fought battle. The lawyers should especially never indulge in malpractices because if you get into this habit, it becomes difficult for you to conduct matters on merit subsequently when it matters the most.

     

    You have handled a variety of criminal matters and have an excellent success record. How have you achieved this? 

    As far as the matters that I have handled the list is long one but out of the fifteen session trials I have had a success rate of thirteen acquittals. One of the classic cases which requires mention is the case of Dr. Paranjpe wherein various difficulties and complex questions of law made me rise and shine everyday with a new vigour. This case was given up by few of the erstwhile juniors of Shrikant Shivade. This case raised my standards of delivery for my own self.

    In another case for culpable homicide amounting to murder, the recovery of weapon from accused was successfully challenged by me and I secured acquittal. The point that turned the case was the difference between tree and shrub.

    I have also had a mind blowing experience when one of my accused was convicted for murder and the accused after judgment the accused touched my feet and told me that whatever efforts I put for him was the best and he was obliged that I worked with absolute dedication and sincerity.

    Do you have ethical reservations regarding some kind of criminal cases?

    I have no reservations about criminal cases. I would refer you to the quotes of Ram Jethmalani that it’s not you who feed our families; whatever we do we do it in within the four corners of law. One more thing, that if we have reservations, then would we not be deciding the guilt of the accused before putting him to trial! So reservations are nonsense.

     

    You are currently a named partner at Dangare Sane associates. How did this happen?

    I had to move on in life at some point of time and hence after working for two years with Mr. Shivade, I decided to practice individually. I still assist my Senior in matters wherever he feels me fit and I work for him, with all dedication. Working as a Partner in Dangare Sane, the role has been a little different. I have to now look into bringing business and I have expanded the scope and horizon as law cannot be static lawyers have to be dynamic.

     

    What motivated you to take up teaching?In your opinion, do you school prepare students for real world challenges? 

    I have been teaching for the past twelve years. I started with Jedhe College and I still owe it to Prof. Shinde, the Principal of Jedhe College, who gave me the first opportunity. I taught at Bharti Law College, then at DES, then finally at ILS. I hope colleges value good practising lawyers who really try to impart their experience and knowledge to students. Law can be taught best with practical aspect rather than bookish knowledge. I really feel that there is a dearth of good lecturers. I would also like to mention the faith of Mr. Deshmukh in me who first forced me to teach the Indian Evidence Act. Law schools should expose the students to courts and should make teaching interactive, rather that concentrating only on theory. The students should also change their approach and have a more sincere approach when they approach for their internships rather than only having the objective of securing a certificate. Our present education system and examination system needs to be revamped because it is memory based and not understanding based. The examination system and marking system needs radical change. The educational institutions should make the subject interesting so that the students are attracted to come and attend the college and should not be forced to attend. As far as I have understood our system and the students of the college, force does not have that

  • Rajendra Misra, Senior VP-General Counsel, Taj Hotels Palaces Resorts Safaris, on IPR, and his diverse experience

    Rajendra Misra, Senior VP-General Counsel, Taj Hotels Palaces Resorts Safaris, on IPR, and his diverse experience

    Rajendra Misra graduated in law from University of Calcutta, in 1991. After successful stints at Indal, Dunlop India Limited, ITC Limited, and Hindustan Unilever Limited, he is currently Senior VP-General Counsel at Taj Hotels Palaces Resorts Safaris. Mr. Misra is the chief legal advisor to the CEO and Board, advising on legal implications of business issues, proactively spotting prospective legal issues, counselling the executive management on legal and regulatory aspects etc. His role encompasses Strategic Litigation planning, Litigation management, selecting and supervising outside counsel, driving strategic initiatives to achieve business objectives while also ensuring adequate protection of legal rights of the organization, building strategic partnerships and alliances with outside counsel and attorneys, Risk minimization and Risk management, developing a Compliance culture, Corporate governance, process improvements, using technology as a tool for efficient management of the function, and developing and managing the team.

    In this interview we speak to him about:

    • His role in ushering in crucial reforms at Taj
    • Receiving accolades such as “GC Powerlist: India 2016″, “Trailblazers: India’s Finest In-house Counsels” by the Indian Corporate Counsel Association, among others
    • His illustrious experience spanning 26 years

    Given that most of our readers are law students and young lawyers, how will you introduce yourself to them? 

    I come from a family of lawyers. My father started his law practice in Kolkata. My sister is a practising lawyer at the Calcutta High Court. I have several relatives as well practising law. I consider myself to be a student of law. I have spent 26 years in the legal field; however, the field is vast, law is ever evolving, and every day one is learning new things. The quest of knowledge is unending, and I am always keen to learn more.

     

    What was it that got you interested in the legal field? 

    Even before I could understand its true meaning, the expression “Possession is nine points of law” fascinated me! I probably heard it from my father. I think it is the discussions between my father and my sister on legal issues which got me interested in law. Gradually, as my interest in law grew, I decided to make it my career. And once I made the decision, I pursued it seriously.

     

    How was your experience in law school? 

    We were one of the initial batches of the integrated five year law course. Typically, the law schools teach you basics of law, laying the foundation. The other thing which you are introduced to is analytical thinking, debating etc., all of which help one later in life. During law school days, Constitutional Law, Contracts and Conveyancing were my subjects of interest. I believe it is extremely important for the students to supplement the knowledge from law school with practical experience gathered through internships. Even as I was studying law, I used to regularly attend the chamber of a Senior Advocate in Calcutta as a trainee. I used to make it a point to attend college, and then attend court post lunch, followed by attending chamber in the evening. Watching the proceedings in court was a great learning. Carrying on research work at the chamber was also a learning experience. I learnt early on the merits of being precise while drafting, that it always pays to say less and be precise, rather than say more and be rambling. Even before completing my law course, I had the privilege of assisting my senior in a case of copyright infringement. I had not read up on copyrights earlier and IPR was not in our curriculum. I researched the subject and found it interesting – very different from the regular property, inheritance and other civil cases. I think that exposure resulted in my interest in Intellectual Property Rights later.

     

    Was the decision to work as an in-house counsel as opposed to working at a law firm a conscious one? 

    I was always interested in a counsel practice, as opposed to working at a law firm. As such, I never really considered the option of working in a law firm. I firmly believe that the decision whether to work in a law firm, or as a counsel or as an in-house counsel is an individual decision, and each one should decide on the basis of his/her interests.

    So how did the movement from counsel practice to in-house counsel happen? Fairly early in my law career, Indian Aluminium Company, Limited (Indal) was looking to recruit an in-house counsel to handle their major legal cases. My father suggested I should consider applying. While initially I was a bit hesitant, he encouraged me to explore. I must say that I had never done an internship in an in-house legal department, and as such this was like walking into the unknown, taking a leap of faith. But I did take the plunge, and have never regretted it. It perhaps helped that Indal wanted me to handle its major legal cases. Therefore, I was never far away from litigation, courts and counsel. Gradually, of course, other aspects of the in-house counsel role also grew on me.

     

    You undertook the Hawkesmere course on IPR in London, and have a Postgraduate Diploma in Patent Law. Can you tell our readers about this course?

    Both these courses were part of the effort to continuously upgrade professional knowledge, and were extremely relevant at the respective point of time.

    A couple of years into my career in ITC, I was given additional responsibility of supervising the IP Cell. Following this, I had gone to London for the Hawkesmere Course on International Intellectual Property Law. Hawkesmere used to conduct such courses aimed towards Continuous Professional Development of executives. This was a two day intensive course, and gave a great insight into various aspects of international IP law, which was very relevant at a time when the IP laws around the world were evolving following the TRIPs agreement.

    Around 2005-06, ITC began diversifying into the Personal Care business. While I was heading its IP Cell, we were mainly into Trademarks and Copyrights. But with the diversification into the Personal Care business, we also began filing patent applications. So I decided to take up the Post Graduate Diploma in Patents Law course of NALSAR. This course was a mix of proximate education and on campus sessions. It was a wonderful way of undergoing training in patents law while working. The faculty was good and experienced. One got a great insight into patents. We had to research and submit two papers on patents as part of the PG Diploma course. The tough part, of course, was balancing work and learning. That was compounded by the fact that I was taking up studying nearly twenty years after having left college. Our professors had sound words of advice for those of us who were taking up studies after a long time – apart from training us on patents, we were also advised to practise handwriting, because twenty years after college, one tends to lose the practice of writing by hand, and it is not easy to write a two hour exam without first building up writing speed!

     

    What got you interested in the field of IPR?

    My introduction to the world of IPR was through a copyright infringement case on which I assisted my senior during my internship. We did not have Intellectual Property law as part of the law curriculum, and hence, this was then a totally alien field for me. But I enjoyed researching and working on this case. Later, when I began heading the IP Cell of ITC, my interests in this field of law grew further. The late 90s and early 2000s were momentous years for Intellectual Property Law in India, with India overhauling its IP laws after acceding to the TRIPs agreement. This is when the IP law really evolved in the country, and companies began putting greater focus on management and protection of their intellectual property. This field of law is really fascinating. Protecting brand names and logos is now extremely common place. However, with the new Trademarks Act, the ambit of trademarks has really expanded, and it is possible to protect sound, 3D marks, colour combinations etc. as trademarks. There is enormous scope to do innovative work in this area, and I believe that the potential of unconventional trademarks is waiting to be realised, particularly for FMCG companies, media organizations etc. who are extremely focussed on protection of their IP. Another interesting area is of Geographical Indications. I had a great exposure to this subject several years back in ITC when we were embroiled in a litigation relating to the GI Darjeeling, where the plaintiffs tried unsuccessfully to stop a hotel lounge by the name Darjeeling. The awareness of this new area of IP is increasing day by day, and recently I was delighted to find that a society of weavers in Kasaragod had registered a GI for Kasaragod sarees! The other area of IP which has great potential is patents. However, a good grasp of scientific knowledge gives a distinct advantage in this field. We must remember that at this point of time, the Indian economy has the potential to become the world’s third largest economy by the next decade, and one of the two largest economies by mid-century. The International Monetary Fund describes the Indian economy as the “bright spot” in the global landscape. As the economy grows and businesses expand, IPR will continue to become more and more important, and this will give tremendous opportunities to lawyers and law students.

     

    What would be your advice to our readers undecided about pursuing higher education? 

    Life is a process of continuous learning. My advice would be not to lose any opportunity of learning. If there is an opportunity of pursuing higher education in a field of interest, I would earnestly urge the readers to avail it. Particularly, if you get it before the start of, or early on in the career. I acknowledge that it may not be easy to pursue higher education later in the career. But, as they say, if there is a will, there is a way. My courses undertaken in mid-career were extremely relevant to my roles, and hence, I benefited greatly from undergoing the courses. I guess the key in such cases is relevance and interest.

    What was your first job after law school? 

    Even as I was attending law school, I used to attend the chambers of a senior counsel in Kolkata, interning and learning the ways of courts. So post qualifying, I commenced going to court. In 1993 however, Indian Aluminium Company, Limited (Indal), a subsidiary of Alcan, Canada was looking for a legal resource to handle their major legal issues, which were till then being handled by a Dy. Company Secretary, who was due for retirement. I remember going for the interview in the most casual manner – straight from court without any preparation and wearing only a jacket and no tie – only to find to my horror several candidates immaculately dressed in suits and ties, seriously reading business newspapers and waiting to be called for the interview. I don’t know what my interviewer and future boss saw in me, because out of the many candidates, he chose a greenhorn like me for the assignment. God bless him for that choice, because thus began my journey as inhouse counsel in some of the topnotch companies.

    It was a blessing in disguise that a few months after my joining, a library-full of files landed on my head – all relating to the major legal cases of Indal. These were high value litigations relating to electricity laws and mining laws. The best of legal brains of the country were appearing for Indal in these matters, and very early in my career I came to interact with them, initially with a sense of awe, but followed quickly by confidence, even as I saw and learnt from their discipline for this great profession. Several months down the line, Indal went for a Euro issue, and that pitched me in front of US lawyers, defending the major litigations of Indal and assuring them that all was under control and that Indal had good merits in these cases – something which I did with confidence, earning the Managing Director’s special award in the process. I handled my first merger transaction at Indal, when we merged a power generation company, which was a subsidiary of Indal, with the parent company.

    Given that Indal was my first job, apart from learning about corporate law, I also learnt corporate language (very different from the language used in pleadings!), corporate behaviour and corporate dynamics at Indal. The early experiences in Indal transformed me from a counsel to a corporate lawyer. I learnt the importance of dispensing with legal jargon and talking/writing in simple language which is understood by business/non-lawyers. The Indal stint also introduced me to the fact that as in-house counsel, I should be looking at the business aspect of an issue apart from its legal aspects – the fact that legal manager has two facets – ‘legal’ and ‘manager’ – and the in-house counsel has to consider both legal and business aspects in order to arrive at a fine balance, serving the business interests of the organization while remaining within the boundaries of law.

     

    Can you tell us about your time at ITC?

    It was during 1997 that ITC was looking to augment strength in their Legal Department. I was then based out of Kolkata, and for any legal professional in Kolkata, ITC was a dream job. Therefore, when they offered to recruit me, without batting an eyelid I joined them. The ITC journey was a tremendous one. Fairly early in my ITC stint, I began partnering the Tobacco business, the largest business of ITC. Over time, as they spun off newer businesses, I got the opportunity of advising the newer businesses as well, helping them find their feet the right way, ensuring legal compliance even as the businesses grew, acquiring new brands, manufacturing facilities and companies for the organic and inorganic growth of the new businesses. Thus began my association with the Foods business, the Personal Care business, the Lifestyle Retailing business, the Matches & Agarbatti businesses, and the Stationery business – very diverse businesses. Even while doing so, I continued to partner the Tobacoo business, which had its own set of challenges, Tobacco being a heavily regulated industry.

    ITC takes IP management very seriously, and it was my privilege to lead their IP Cell too. While during the Tobacoo/Foods/LRBD days, management of Trademarks and Copyrights was the dominant theme, the advent of Personal Care business also brought with it experience in handling Patents management. The most interesting thing was that with newer businesses being spun off, we also learnt on the job. Overall, it was a great time, with huge learnings. In many ways, we used to operate as an in-house law firm. We used to do a lot of drafting in-house – agreements as well as pleadings. We also used to do a lot of research in-house, and ITC had an excellent library of legal journals, law books, as well as legal research software like Manupatra, SCC Online, Excus, PTC, etc. to enable research. And, we used to take an active part in briefing counsel in our legal cases. With our drafting and research, we used to support our counsel and solicitors in a big way, something which was well appreciated by them.

    The Tobacco business came up with innovative ways of advertising – it was the role of the Legal function to ensure that the business always remained within the four corners of law. Being a highly regulated industry, the Tobacco business took compliance with legal requirements extremely seriously, and the Legal voice was heard with respect. With the new businesses, I got the opportunity of creating and protecting new brands, acquiring new brands, negotiating and closing with new manufacturing facilities, sometimes buying new manufacturing facilities. The best part was the acquisition of a bio-technology company which was into production of seed potatoes, with manufacturing facilities in multiple countries. Due diligence in multiple jurisdictions, and structuring the transaction was extremely challenging. I distinctly remember the night prior to Closing, when we stayed up the entire night finalizing the transaction documents, to seal the deal at 10 o’clock in the morning. It was a tremendous experience.

    As the years went by and my responsibilities increased, so did my levels. I moved on from being Asst. Manager – Legal to Asst. Solicitor to Associate General Counsel. From a solo start, the ITC stint gave me the experience of managing a team. I had a great time working with fantastic business leaders, excellent mentors, fine peers and a great team. Finally, after spending 14 years in the organization, I had a feeling that I had done all that was to be done in Kolkata and in ITC. I got an urge to spread the wings and fly away out of Kolkata, all the way to the western shores of the country – to its commercial capital. I was looking out when HUL called. And that was a dream assignment, too difficult to refuse.

     

    How did your appointment at HUL happen?

    Unilever is a great organization. It is the king of marketing in the country. In 2011, HUL was looking for a senior legal resource for heading its legal team partnering the personal care and homecare businesses, the largest of its businesses, representing more than 75% of its turnover. It was my privilege that they selected me for the role. I became a part of the HUL Leadership team and the Legal Leadership team. Unilever is a powerhouse of great leaders. It would not be wrong to say that Unilever “manufactures” leaders, some of whom occupy some very senior positions across the industry today. It was a great time at Unilever, working and collaborating with some of the finest brains in the business today.

    Over time, my role in Unilever grew. In addition to leading the legal team partnering the personal care and homecare business, I also got the charge to supervise the Legal team of Lakme Lever Ltd., a subsidiary of HUL. Later, the Water business and Kimberly Clarke Lever Ltd. also got added to my profile. Over time, in addition to my above responsibilities, I also became the Global Legal Counsel for Lifebuoy and Fair & Lovely, two iconic brands of Unilever, apart from discharging the role as Brand Development Counsel for the entire South Asia region. I must say that I thoroughly enjoyed my role in Unilever. The learnings were immense. Interacting with the best legal brains across the Unilever universe, one picked up global best practices, and came to learn about new and upcoming fields of law. The business teams in Unilever are demanding and one has to be nimble to manage them, and it was a joy working as a team. One of the most important things which Unilever experience brought out was the risk-taking appetite, something extremely crucial for the business. The best part was that Unilever gives you complete freedom in your job profile – the canvas is yours to paint. Another fantastic thing was that I had a young, energetic and dynamic team. Interacting with such a young and dynamic group was great and challenging at the same time. It kept you young and contemporary, but at the same time you also had to be several steps ahead of them. It was a joy mentoring these bright young legal minds.

    At Unilever, I had the opportunity to look at, frame and defend some cutting edge product claims and advertising. The most memorable was a comparative advertising, where we showed the competitor’s product and claimed that our product was better than theirs. It was risky, but it was a calculated risk we took, and one which was worth taking, given that our product was truly cutting edge and better than competition. Therefore, the claim was factually correct, through it ran the risk of a competitive challenge. During the planning stage, I advised the business group that we should expect the competitor to take the battle to courts. I made intelligent guesses, and was able to accurately anticipate the court where they could file the legal challenge, and prepared counsel in advance so that we were in a position to defend our claims. My forecast proved correct, and we got locked in a fierce competitive battle with the competitor. We succeeded in defending our claims and in keeping the comparative advertising going for a long period of time despite the competitor’s attempts to shut us out. This campaign is a landmark in the history of comparative advertising in the country.

    The other memorable piece of work was acquisition of a natural ayurvedic medicine brand and product for Unilever. With the rise in demand for natural products, and growth of new competitors in this field, Unilever set about acquiring this natural ayurvedic medicine brand and product line, and I was in the thick of due diligence and negotiations with the promoters of the product/brand, and we worked out a great deal for the company. Unfortunately, before we could ink the deal, I quit to move on to Taj, but it gave me immense satisfaction when the deal was finally concluded soon thereafter. It is a matter of pride to see the product on the shelf. Incidentally, this was not the first brand/product line purchase for me. I had done quite a few in ITC as well. And, today when I see these products on the shelf in retail stores, I feel immense pride in having been associated with these acquisitions, and have great stories to tell about them to my children.

    Towards the end of 2015, Taj was looking to appoint a Senior Vice President – General Counsel on its Executive Committee – the highest executive body just below the Board of Directors of the company. When Taj gave me an offer to join their Executive Committee, reporting to the Managing Director, and overseeing the Legal & Secretarial functions, it was a great offer. During my professional career, I have always valued professionalism and high moral standards in an organization. Both Unilever and ITC are extremely professional companies, with high ethical standards. Taj and the Tata group are universally admired for their great professionalism and high ethical standards. Therefore, the organizational profile was a perfect fit. The role was also very interesting and challenging. Apart from supervising my function, sitting on the Executive Committee also gives me a great experience in understanding and analysing business issues, appreciating legal issues in a business context, prioritizing legal issues accordingly, and taking risk calls for business growth. Therefore, I decided to take the plunge and join Taj – a decision which I haven’t since regretted. Today, apart from being a member of the Executive Committee of Taj, I am also a Director on the Board of TajGVK Hotels & Resorts Ltd., a listed company which is a joint venture between Taj and GVK group.

     

    Can you give our readers some insight into the reforms you brought in Taj during your time there?

    At the Taj, we deal with a lot of contracts, under which we have valuable rights in respect of our 100 plus hotels. Contract management is an important area for us. In the modern world, contracts tracking on Excel sheets is sub-optimal and does not work. With advancement in technology, it was important that we use technology to our advantage in managing our important contracts. Hence, I deployed a Contract Management software at Taj. It serves as an archive of all our hotel management contracts and other important contracts, and also tracks contract renewal dates and auto-generates alerts for the team, ensuring timely renewals, and risk mitigation.

    The next issue was ensuring uniformity of contracts across the organization. My team is spread over multiple locations. It is crucial that everyone in the team follows standardized contract templates, instead of digging into personal drives and using different contract formats. Hence, I constituted a Task Force to standardize about 25 of our main contracts. We spent a lot of time discussing and debating the changes to these contracts. And, we did this inhouse because we believe that being closest to the business, we were the most equipped to standardize our contracts keeping in mind our business requirements and challenges. Once standardization happened, we uploaded the standard versions of the contracts on the Contract Management software so that everyone uses the same format, regardless of location. This ensures consistency of contracts, and has minimized risks for the organization.

    Laws impact everyone in the organization, and increased legal awareness leads to greater compliance and lesser risk exposures; hence, it is important to spread legal awareness within the organization. Here again, I decided to use technology to our advantage. We have developed e-learning modules (Learning Management System or LMS) for our employees on five crucial subjects – Data Privacy & Protection, POSH, Competition Law, Insider Trading, and Related Party Transactions. These are interactive e-learning modules which will explain legal topics in very simple terms and with examples for the non-legal employees.

    The Taj group had deployed a Compliance Management system at its units. I have now commenced Gap analysis, which is in the nature of an audit that will help us identify and fill up gaps, if any, in the compliance management by individual units. This will further strengthen the compliance management within the organization.

    Similarly, Taj was in the process of deploying Litigation management software and Intellectual Property management software. We went full throttle in order to operationalize them on priority basis. All Taj litigations and IPR have now been uploaded onto the Litigation management software and the Intellectual Property management software, leading to better management of litigations and IPR.

    I believe that with all the above measures, people in the organization can sleep better, assured that we are doing the right thing, in the right way and that our risks are getting minimized.

    You pioneered an initiative which led to the Taj Mahal Hotel building in Mumbai being India’s first building to secure a trademark for the image of the hotel. Can you tell our readers about how you achieved this?

    The image trademark registration was a result of a combination of many factors, my fascination with unconventional trademarks being one. The other was the constant feeling of what more one can do to protect the rights of my organization, and how can I ring fence it better. Yet another was the desire to create value for the organization, because I believe that the Legal Department is not just a cost-centre, it can also create value for the organization. The Taj Mahal Palace, Mumbai is the iconic flagship of Taj Hotels Palaces Resorts Safaris, and is a defining structure of Mumbai’s skyline. The distinctive red-tiled Florentine Gothic dome of the hotel, which crowns the elegant Indo-Saracenic arches and architraves of the iconic hotel, sits 240 feet above street level. Since 16th December, 1903, when the hotel first opened its doors to guests, its striking dome has been the triangulation point for the Indian Navy to guide them in the harbor. It is widely recognised as the temple of hospitality. I do not need a signboard on this iconic property for the public to know that it is the Taj hotel. One look at the property and you know that it is The Taj Mahal Palace, representing the finest in Indian hospitality traditions. To my mind, that is exactly what a Trademark is. Therefore, I went about securing this image trademark registration. After conceiving this idea, I presented it to the Managing Director and my peers at the Executive Committee, who enthusiastically supported it. We got the trademark applications filed through Anand & Anand, the top notch intellectual property law firm in the country. The applications were pursued on top priority, and we were able to secure the registration in 7 months. I must say that a stellar role was played by the Trademarks Registry and by Anand & Anand in prosecuting the applications and securing the registrations. Often, people who are part of a historic moment do not realise that they are creating history, and I daresay that most of the people who participated in the process may not have realised the significance of the moment. But history it certainly was – we had become the first Indian building to have secured image trademark registration. Only a few iconic buildings across the world have been able to secure such registration – the Empire State Building, the Chrysler Building and the Sydney Opera House to name some. With this image trademark registration, the iconic Taj Mahal Palace, Mumbai became a member of this unique and elite club – the first Indian building to do so. As an Indian, that swells my heart with pride. As an employee of The Taj group and Tata group, it makes me immensely happy that I have been able to get such a unique protection and status for our legendary hotel. This is a very unusual and unconventional trademark, and the outcome of a pioneering effort. Many organizations register brands and logos as trademarks. However, the scope of “trademark” is much beyond mere brands and logos. Sound, images, colour combinations, 3D images etc. can also be registered as trademarks. Such unconventional trademarks can create great value for organizations, representing its USP. And, being beyond the conventional, they can become great talking points for organizations.

     

    Can you tell our readers about IBHA’s role in the industry? 

    (Mr. Misra has been the chairman of Indian Beauty and Hygiene Association.)

    IBHA is the premier industry association representing reputed personal care/beauty/FMCG companies in the country, viz. HUL, P&G, L’Oreal, Marico, Dabur etc. IBHA plays a key role in advocacy on behalf of the industry with the government. I was Chairman of the Legal Committee of IBHA, and used to play a very active role on various industry issues. We made representations to the government on various issues impacting the industry. I strategized and handled several legal issues/litigations on behalf of the personal care industry. In my capacity as the Chairman of its Legal Committee, I was the Legal advisor to the Executive Committee of IBHA, which comprised of the Personal Care Director of HUL, COO of L’Oreal, MD of Godrej Consumer Products, CEO of ITC’s Personal Care business etc. It was most wonderful interacting with these industry captains, advising them on the legal issues impacting the industry.

     

    You have often been recognised as one of the finest in-house counsels in India. What are the qualities required to succeed as an in house counsel? 

    It has been an honour to have got recognition from such leading organizations as The Legal 500 and the ICCA. To succeed as an in-house counsel, one needs several qualities. First and foremost, one needs to have an analytical mind, and should be capable of making dispassionate analysis of issues. Together with legal knowledge, one should have a good understanding of the business of the organization. Risk-taking appetite is an extremely important quality which an in-house counsel should have. An in-house counsel should be solution-oriented, providing the business with solutions to their problems rather than raising the red flag on everything. It is also extremely important that he should be able to speak out his mind without fear or favour, keeping the interest of the organization and all stakeholders over everything else. Above all, an in-house counsel should have the ability to balance the business and legal aspects, and achieve the optimum balance which will ensure that the organization achieves its business objectives without compromising on legalities.

     

    What are the challenges you have faced in building your career as it stands today?

    One issue which readily comes to mind is the growth challenge in Kolkata. As I mentioned earlier, after 14 years in ITC, I had a feeling that I had done everything possible in ITC and in Kolkata. I was born and brought up in the city, and always worked there. However, at that point of time, I was faced with the situation that if I had to grow my career further, I had to leave my city of birth and move to unknown pastures. Having spent 40 years in a city, that is not an easy decision to take. However, I took the bold decision to quit my job at ITC, and leave my city of birth to move to HUL in Mumbai. At that point of time, it was very unsettling. However, in retrospect, I am glad that I took the decision to move out. My movement to different organizations has given me the opportunity to expand my knowledge and experience. Over time, I have learnt that change is a constant. There is always risk in change; however, as they say, “A ship is safe in harbour, but that is not what ships are meant for.”

     

    How do you stay up to date about the recent developments in all the fields you work in and have an interest in?

    It is extremely important to stay updated about the latest developments in the legal field. I once came across the statement ,“If the rate of change outside is greater than the rate of change inside, then you become redundant”. That to me underlines the importance of keeping oneself updated with the latest. The world today is changing faster than ever, with new developments coming about everyday. It is important that our knowledge keeps pace with this fast-paced development all around us. Keeping oneself updated also enables one to correctly analyse a situation and advise in any given scenario. Latest changes in the legal field can be gleaned from various sources, viz. the media, professional social media, legal journals, Manupatra alerts, Google alerts etc., as also from participating in various professional knowledge-sharing groups. I also attend conferences and seminars on topics of interest in order to keep myself updated.

     

    What advice do you have for our readers who are primarily college students?

    A career in law is a great one to take up. Knowledge is the most important asset of professionals. My advice to college students would be to keep increasing their bandwidth of knowledge. Do internships at good organizations and keep gathering new experience.

     

  • Shivani Chopra, Employment and Litigation Lawyer, Hicks Morley, on Labour Laws, and being a lawyer in Canada

    Shivani Chopra, Employment and Litigation Lawyer, Hicks Morley, on Labour Laws, and being a lawyer in Canada

    Shivani graduated from the first batch of NALSAR, University of Law, Hyderabad in 2003. While at NALSAR, she did different internships including working one summer with Justice K.G. Balakrishnan of the Supreme Court of India. After I graduated, she got recruited by Dr. Reddy’s Labs through On-Campus Interviews. At the same time, she got a full scholarship to do her LL.M. from Dalhousie University in Canada. Once she completed her LL.M., she wrote her Canadian legal equivalency exam to get her Canadian Law degree. She then found an articling position with one of the top twenty law firms in Canada, and after articling, became an associate lawyer with them in January 2008. In January 2016, she became a partner at the law firm and was one of the very few visible minority immigrant women partners at a major law firm in Atlantic Canada. This year, she moved to Toronto and is now practising with Hicks Morley which is considered the top law firm in Canada for management-side Labour and Employment work.
    She has also received the Lexpert Award this year in Canada for achievements in the legal profession. The award was given to 50 women across Canada and she was one of them.

    In this interview we speak to her about:

    • Being a part of NALSAR’s maiden batch
    • Her passion for Labour Laws
    • The Canadian legal regime

    Given that most of our readers are law students, how would you introduce yourself to them?

    I am a litigator at heart who loves the practice of law, and would not trade what I do for anything.

     

    What motivated you to pursue a career in the legal field?

    My Uncle, Dr. Sudhir Chopra, now retired, is a law professor in Europe. He encouraged me to join the legal profession and actually encouraged me to apply to NALSAR. My father, Mr. Pradeep Chopra, is also a lawyer and Engineer. He was the President of a Railway Trade Union Association for most of his career, and was frequently involved in labour disputes. Both of them were instrumental in me joining the legal profession.

     

    Can you tell us about the experience of being a part of NALSAR’s inaugural batch?

    The time I spent at NALSAR were some of the best of my life. The first batch got a lot of tough, but necessary, love from our director at the time, Dr. Ranbir Singh. We worked hard and played hard. To me, the most important part of NALSAR were the internships we did over the course of our five year program. Those internships introduced us to a lot of good legal professionals, gave us our first glimpse into the legal profession, and helped us figure out which direction we wanted our career to head in.

     

    Can you tell us about the kind of internships you engaged in?

    I did a total of eight internships in law school! My most significant internship was with Justice K.G. Balakrishnan, who retired as the Chief Justice of India. Justice Balakrishnan taught me a lot about the legal profession and gave me significant insight into the workings of law. I must mention that he was also one of the kindest and most humble people I have ever encountered in the legal profession. Training under Justice Balakrishnan just further solidified my interest in the legal profession.

     

    What were your areas of interest in law school and how did you cultivate such interests?

    My interest in law school was primarily advocacy. I love a good fight and arguing a case in courtroom is the most fun part of the practice of law – to me. I cultivated that interest by participating in internal moots. I was also part of the University team for the Red Cross Henry Dunant Memorial Moot Court Competition.

    My other interest, and one which I abandoned shortly after law school, was Intellectual Property Law. My LL.M. thesis at Dalhousie University was on an Intellectual Property topic. However, upon completion, I realized that IP and Advocacy would not necessarily go hand in hand. A fight ensued, and my love for Advocacy won!

     

    What was your first job after law school? How did you secure it and what did it teach you?

    My first job after law school (NALSAR) was a position as an IP lawyer with Dr. Reddy’s Lab. I secured it through on-campus recruitment but ended up not working there because I got accepted into the Masters program in Canada.

    In Canada, while taking my legal equivalency exams, I worked as a paralegal in a law firm. I learned the inner workings of a Canadian law firm in that position.

     

    What motivated you to pursue an LLM?

    (Shivani was accepted at Dalhousie University in Canada with a full scholarship to pursue her LLM.)

    I would give a romanticized and idealistic answer to your question, but there isn’t one. I did not want to pursue LL.M. My Uncle and my father insisted that I study more and asked that I apply to Dalhousie University. Had I not done that, I would have had a hard time landing at a top-tier firm. My LL.M. is what separated me from many candidates because candidates who want to join private practice do not often pursue LL.M. It did not necessarily make it easy for me to find a position, but it certainly helped law firms here assess my abilities in the Canadian legal system.

    My advice to readers who are undecided about pursuing higher education would be – do it ! Especially if you plan to move to another country. Higher education will set you apart and may help you find that position you always wanted. Plus, you will have your entire life to work but a little more education never hurt anyone.

     

    How did you secure a scholarship? What can students do to increase their chances of receiving financial aid?

    I had applied for a scholarship at Dalhousie University and had ensured that my thesis proposal was interesting to the University which could increase my chances of securing a scholarship. My tuition fees was fully covered by the University and, in addition to that, I received a small amount for my living expenses. Money was always tight but I was focussed on graduating from the program so lack of money, although challenging, did not impact me much.

    To increase your chance of receiving financial aid, apply to as many universities as you can. Contact professors at the University, discuss financial aid with them, and ask for advise on what may help you secure scholarships. Most Canadian LL.M. programs, at least back when I was studying, consider the strength of your writing proposal and your resume before determining what scholarships you will get. So focus on your resume, get as many internships as you can, and keep your grades up in law school.

    How did you secure an appointment with McInnes Cooper?

    (Shivani initially had an articling position there and then went on to become a Partner.)

    Law students in Canada are required to article/clerk with law firms for a year, with some exceptions, before being called to the Bar. So I applied for an articling position and was hired-back after I finished articling. I became a Partner at the firm in December 2015.

    I was lucky enough to find a great mentor early on in my career. She taught me all I know about the practice of law, and helped shape my legal career. Plus, practice of law is hard work. It is not a 9 to 5 job. I always describe it as being in a medical profession – doctors work endless hours to save lives. Lawyers work endless hours to solve their clients’ problems. I worked very hard, and continue to, to serve clients. I would also say that your home environment plays a tremendous role in how well you do professionally. I have a super-supportive spouse who is just as driven as I am. He has never complained about long hours (he works them too!), or cancelled dinners. That has, over the years, allowed me to focus on the practice of law.

    In terms of the type of work I have handled, I am primarily a litigator and first started my career doing all sorts of litigation work. I eventually focused my practice on employment matters as that is the area that interests me the most.

     

    What prompted the shift to Hicks Morley? What is your job profile there?

    Hicks Morley is well regarded as the top labour/employment firm in Canada. My husband and I had been considering a move to Toronto, and I knew that Hicks Morley would be the place for me – if I was fortunate enough to land there. They made me an offer, and I took it.

    I am an employment and litigation lawyer at Hicks Morley, and work out of their Toronto office. We counsel and represent employers on all sorts of labour and employment matters. Our client-base is spread across Canada and our team works tirelessly to provide top-tier advise to our clients.

    This is what I had always wanted my practice to look like – and I am loving every minute of it!

     

    Can you give our readers some insight into the field of Labour and Employment law?

    Labour and Employment law is fascinating. Never a dull moment – which also means you work hard for your clients. You are dealing with people’s employment matters – which are critical to them. So you need to be responsive, sensitive, and have lots of people skills to thrive in this area of practice – that’s my opinion.

     

    Did you initially find it difficult to familiarise yourself with the Canadian legal system due to having studied law in India?

    Although both India and Canada are common law systems, laws are significantly different. So my articling year was spent on a lot of self-education. I would do a lot of self-teaching and reading when I was given an assignment to even understand what the legal system here was like.
    You pick-up things very quickly though. Six months in and, with self-teaching and good mentoring, I was figuring out things very quickly and settled-in pretty well.

     

    You are one of the few visible minority immigrant women who has done so well in the legal field. What hurdles have you faced in building your career as it stands today? 

    That is very kind, although I think luckily, a lot of immigrant women are doing well in the legal profession. That said, the sad fact is that it can be challenging for immigrants to break into the legal profession due to several reasons: cost of getting your equivalency to the Canadian law degree; finding people who will give you your first break (takes a lot of faith when you don’t understand their educational background); and family circumstances.

    I was trying to break into the profession in 2006. I sent out a large number of applications, networked constantly with potential employers, and interviewed with big and medium-size firms in Canada – before I finally found a position that was of interest to me.

    My advice to younger candidates who are trying to venture out of the country is to be realistic and strategic. Keep your grades up in school; practice at a good firm in India before making the move if you can; get that Masters degree, if possible. And network! You never know who will take you under their wings and help you achieve your goals in the legal profession.

     

    Why did you choose to not return to India?

    I love India. I was born and raised there, and it shaped who I am as a person. Not returning to India was a personal decision. I met my husband, who is also from India, in Canada and he wanted to settle here. So we decided to make Canada our home.

    I have now been living in Canada for about fourteen years and have made it my home. I have been practicing law in Canada for about ten years – so this is home now both personally and professionally. This is the legal system I best know, love, and understand.

    With respect to job opportunities, I can only speak about the Canadian legal market. The legal market in Canada is very competitive. There are lots of great candidates coming out of law schools and so finding a good opportunity takes a lot of time, effort, work, and frankly good luck. And to be honest, it is even more competitive for international students and immigrants– because you are the “unknown commodity”. Law firms and corporations may have a hard time figuring out how your experience compares to that of the Canadian candidates. That said, if you work hard and stay focussed, you will achieve that position you are looking for.

    What advice do you have for our readers who are primarily college students?

    Figure out what you want to do in your career and, if possible, plan your every move around it. Use your breaks to do those internships. They are more important than you realize – they help strengthen your resume so use your summer and winter breaks to get quality internships.
    Work hard but play hard too. I had a lot of fun in law school. Made tremendous life-long friendships and it helped shape me into the person I am today.

    One final advice – choose your career wisely. If you love what you do, you will do it well and effectively. There is nothing worse than joining a profession because you are being told to do that – if you don’t enjoy it, chances are you will not last in it.

    Thanks so much for reaching out.