Super Lawyer

Category: Partners, General Counsels and Senior Advocates

  • Pooja Sharma, Senior Manager-Legal, Sony Entertainment on leaving law firm and Media Law

    Pooja Sharma, Senior Manager-Legal, Sony Entertainment on leaving law firm and Media Law

    Pooja Sharma is currently a Senior Manager-Legal at Multi Screen Media Pvt. Ltd. (Sony Entertainment). She graduated from Government Law College, Mumbai in 2007, and had thereafter worked in law firms before joining in-house.

    In this interview she tells us about:

    • Work as an Associate at law firms
    • Leaving law firms and joining as an in-house counsel

     

    Hello Pooja! What would you say brought you into legal studies?

    Firstly, A big Hello to you all! I am Pooja Sharma and I was one of you just a few years back. In particular there is no such incident but something that attracted me towards this vocation was the discipline involved and also the fact that as a lawyer one needs a good sense of clear reasoning.

     

    How would you describe your time at GLC, Mumbai?

    Government Law College, Mumbai was a great place to be in. I can say that GLC as an institution has played a great part in shaping my career, insight and my ambitions.

     

    What sort of internships did you do while in law school?

    I interned under Senior Advocate Mr. Shyam Marwadi in Bombay High Court during my college days. At that time my aim was to understand the practice of law in its purest form i.e., trials, questions of law being argued as and by way of appeals in the higher courts, etc. I strongly advocate and suggest that every law student must take up internship in the formative stages of their legal career; it’s an integral aspect of the profession.

     

    Did you find any difference between the way students of NLUs and non-NLUs take to the legal profession?

    Well, that’s really tricky to answer but I would say hard work gets you where you want to be. There are many examples of stalwarts from “non NLU” status. I think there is an edge attached to the NLU status but it’s a long race ahead, only time can tell who is going to be where. Law books are the same that each lawyer reads, the difference lies in the interpretation of the statue and this gives you an edge, it is interpretation of law that distinguishes a “good lawyer” from “just a lawyer”.

     

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    What brought you towards Media and Entertainment Law?

    Media and Entertainment Law practice happened to me by accident. I was not aware of this arm of legal practice till I started working for Hariani & Co. I was drawn towards the fact that Media and Entertainment Law is a very niche area of practice, along with interpretation of the various statue, it also requires a very sharp and clear transactional acumen. Since the practice is still evolving there is something new to learn every day and I really like this refreshing aspect.

     

    You began your professional career with Hariani & Co. as an Associate Advocate. What did your work profile consist of?

    I did not start my legal career with Hariani & Co., but Manilal Kher Ambalal & Co., as a litigation lawyer. Thereafter, I the quest to learn non-litigation and transactional aspects of law, I joined Hariani & Co., in 2010. I was initially inducted in the firm for real estate practice, however as destiny would have it, I was assigned to undertake trademarks, copyright and media related matters, in short complete intellectual property rights related practice.

     

    You’ve recently joined Multi Screen Media Pvt. Ltd. (Sony Entertainment) as Senior Manager – Legal. How did the switch from Hariani & Co. take place?

    Pre-dominantly the urge to understand the business and legal aspects of broadcasting and distribution of digital contents on various media platforms attracted me to Sony.

     

    How different would you say legal practice is from being an in-house lawyer? How should we choose which role to take?

    I understand by practice you mean litigation. Like I earlier said, every young lawyer/law student must understand Law in its purest form i.e., litigation. By attending courts one learns how to construct facts of the case and how to interpret the law in favour of your arguments. However, times are changing mind-sets are changing, law practice or role of lawyer is not limited to arguing cases in court but much more than that, which is good in a way. Every individual must keep his mind open, listen to the callings of his/her aptitude and then make a choice.

     

    Many law school students aspire to join corporate law. What do you think most are doing wrong, from your observations?

    There is nothing wrong in having an aspiration that is not in sync with the traditional outlook. If a student feels that he/she shall be more comfortable in a corporate job which is like corporate practice, he/she should pursue it. My personal view is that there is no harm in being a corporate in-house lawyer, however training and insight of pure form of law is essential and it provides you with an edge even if you want to pursue corporate in-house practice. Legal/vocational training in courts should be a compulsory part of legal education is what I feel. This will give us better lawyers in future in every field, be it bar practice or corporate in house practice.

     

    What would be your parting message for our readers?

    A simple mantra that I follow is that one should be open to learning new things, work hard and stay focused.

  • Aditya Sondhi, Senior Counsel, Karnataka High Court, on building a career in litigation

    Aditya Sondhi, Senior Counsel, Karnataka High Court, on building a career in litigation

    Aditya Sondhi is an alumnus of the NLSIU, Bangalore. He graduated from NLSIU in 1998, and had thereafter independently set up his litigation practice, ‘brick-by-brick’. He was recently (in June, 2014) designated a Senior Counsel at the Karnataka High Court.

    In this interview, he reckons his first hearing at the court and shares with us his in-depth experience of advocacy. There is so much to learn from here. Read on!

     

    Please tell our readers what motivated you to take up legal studies?

    I was an accidental lawyer. One had heard of the NLSIU at Bangalore in the early 1990s, and when the entrance exam came along, I sat for it just for a lark. My plans were to go to England after my 12th standard. As it turned out, I cleared the Law School exam and ended up staying on in Bangalore.

     

    Have the NLUs been able to produce socially relevant lawyers? What is your take on this, given that many chose to take up firm jobs?

    Quite so, because those who have taken up social-action practice have made their mark. There is a saying in Hindi – Sau sonar ki, ek lauhar ki (For a hundred blows of a goldsmith, a single blow of the blacksmith). Despite many NLU alumni taking up corporate law at firms, the few who have taken up socially relevant lawyering have [sociallocker] more than made up for their tribe. Like my classmates and friends at the ALF.

     

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    How was your law school experience at NLSIU? Are there any memorable moments which you would like to share?

    I was fairly nonchalant about being in NLS and hence didn’t necessarily get very deeply influenced by the ethos of the place. Equally, my contribution to the institution as a student was negligible. I do, however, vividly remember our founder-director Dr. Madhava Menon at the orientation programme in 1993, clearly mentioning that the object of the Law School was to contribute purposefully to the Bar. For me, that was a clarion call of sorts and helped me take up litigation once I graduated without even an iota of doubt.

     

    How do you say a law student can shape up his profile for litigation while still in law school? Do moots and academic writing help?

    Moots and academic writing scarcely help one shape up for practice. Though moot courts may give a mild flavour of what it is like to prepare and argue a brief, the lack of accountability to a real client or a real cause makes the experience artificial. Academic writing in fact makes it difficult to adjust to pleadings for court, which are meant to be concise, uncomplicated and largely factual. Even the legal grounds that are pleaded are expected to be scholarly, yet pithy. Closer attention to research and strenuous litigation internships can surely muster up a skill-set that comes handy in the long run. Most importantly, law students must stay clear of the anti-litigation propaganda that goes around and make up their own minds about practice.

     

    How were the first few years after your graduation? Would you say law school prepared you for the real world practice of law?

    They were the toughest years of my life. Simply, because I realized how ignorant and wet behind the ears I was. It was more a case of trying to survive in practice, rather than succeed. This was due to the fact that one knew so little and experience could only be gathered the hard way. Law School did not prepare me for this episode, as the culture in NLS was generally removed from litigation and concentrated more on academia and corporate, in-house practice. Of course, the few professors who had shown us glimpses of the real world outside, like Dr. Lalit Kumar Rao (may he rest in peace), were valuable mentors.

     

    Please tell us about how you decided to pursue litigation. What were the other opportunities you were considering?

    As I said earlier, Dr. Menon’s message stayed with me. This, coupled with the fact that I was offended by very senior professionals coming down for pre-placement talks and simply selling their firms to the students. I always wanted to work in an environment where I would be inspired by my seniors. Not be seduced by them to join them. That changes the entire grain of how you approach your life ahead. A robust placement in my fourth year with Mr. Dipankar Gupta in the Supreme Court and in the final year with Mr. Udaya Holla clinched it for me.

     

    Did you have a mentor while in your formative years of your practice? How was your experience arguing at the court for the first time?

    Not directly, but Mr. Holla shaped my career tremendously by simply giving me opportunities to argue matters in the High Court from the day I enrolled. His style of mentorship is quite stringent and effective – to throw you in the deep and let you swim for yourself. Something he has done himself with remarkable élan. On the evening that I got my sanad, when I offered my senior some sweets, he reciprocated by offering me two files for the next day to argue in Court!

    One was a writ petition before the legendary Justice R V Raveendran, in which former Advocate General Mr. B V Acharya appeared for the petitioner, and I could not get to open my mouth for the respondent! Not so much out of fear, but more because I had over-prepared for the case and did not know where to begin. (Fortunately for me, the other case allotted to me was adjourned!).

     

    What was the attitude of judges towards new advocates? Has it changed over the years? Are there any specific challenges to be faced on the first day?

    As I recounted my first hearing above, I can say that soon enough I became confident to argue more assertively and calmly in Court, and tribute here must be paid to some wonderful judges at the time who were most encouraging to juniors. I can recall Justice Dattu, Justice Rangavitalachar, Justice P V Reddy, Justice Mohan Kumar, Justice Thakur, Justice PatriBasavangoud and Justice Rajaratnam, among many others. Some of them were tough task-masters but at the same time, never bullied or discouraged juniors. This brings out the best in junior advocates – knowing they need to be fully prepared and that the Court will hear them impartially. The greatest challenge in the beginning is the mind-block that one has with the system – uncertainty as to how the Courts will treat a new entrant. Good seniors and judges help you keep the faith.

     

    How do you say we can boost the fiduciary relations between clients and us? How many years of practice would you say is required to build a firm clientele?

    One good performance is sufficient to build faith in the party. Clients, generally, only expect their Counsel to be prompt in their filings, honest to the T and to give it their best when the case is heard. Of course, the unethical practice of soliciting clients makes it very difficult for solo, first-generation practitioners who stay true to their code of conduct. I would say, my clientele was never as large as many other lawyers. However, it was built brick-by-brick, and that takes years.

     

    What all does a Senior Counsel have to do? Please tell us about a typical work day.

    Seniors have the benefit of not having to worry about mundane, micro-management of cases and are only required to argue their matters to the best of their ability, after being briefed by the advocate on record. However, the very fact that one is a designated Senior mandates greater preparation, better submissions and total fairness to the Hon’ble Court. Typically, a day entails briefings by Counsel on record and interaction with juniors to prop up the research. Thereafter, it’s a question of waiting your turn in Court and arguing the brief. Evenings are at Chambers, where briefings and reading continue.

     

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    What are your core areas of practice? How do you say one can find his domain?

    I’ve always maintained that litigation is a speciality in itself and thereafter one may or may not concentrate on any core area of law. I would say my work broadly covers commercial and constitutional law, on both the civil and criminal side. Having said that, there is a great thrill in arguing newer areas of law, where one is outside his / her comfort zone and where one must work doubly hard to do justice to a brief. Unless one already knows what area of law he should practice in, it is best to free-fall and discover the areas of interest as one goes along.

     

    What is the transformation from being a Counsel to Senior Counsel like? Are business development skills mandatory at such higher roles?

    A designated Senior Counsel at the time of his / her designation must already be made of the stuff that is expected of a Senior. If that is so, the transition is not so sharp, though one does face several practical changes in terms of retiring from pending cases, avoiding direct client interaction and so on.

    I’m afraid, that the words ‘business’ and ‘practice’ do not go together in the profession. The skills are professional and entail the entire gamut of skills required for better advocacy. Not least, a high degree of ethics, which one must constantly strive to uphold. And which is no easy task.

     

    How did you take time out for pursuing higher studies? Would you say higher studies are necessary for a career in litigation?

    I got my masters’ in political science through correspondence and thereafter a PhD, while I was practising. This I did only because I missed the academic side a little. Otherwise, neither did I intend to pursue an LL.M nor do I think one can afford to take much time off from practice to pursue higher studies. Particularly, if you are a first-generation lawyer and have to stay at it from day one.

     

    What are the skills that you look for when you hire juniors under you? How do you reckon that law students should develop these skills?

    The hunger to learn and the modesty to know that they know very little. My chambers are ill-suited for juniors who are smug and all-knowing. These are not so much skills as they are an attitude. And that attitude needs to be developed by introspection.

     

    When you accept interns under you, what kind of qualities do you look for? How do you say interns should go about their work so as to get noticed in a positive way in the limited time they have?

    I find it quite difficult to screen interns considering the number of students who apply. And I get all sorts. Really good, keen interns and others who are there as a formality. Interns clearly need to slog and make the most of their time in Court, without waiting to be spoon-fed assignments. Internships are meant to get a feel of what Courts are like, and that effort has to come from the interns themselves. A lot of them sit around hoping I will do the needful for them. And they are usually disappointed.

     

    Having mentored quite a few students have you found any difference between NLU and Non-NLU students? Do you think law schools have a role to play in one’s career trajectory?

    Non-NLU students show a greater hunger to learn, especially non-NLSIU ones. There is no chip-on-the-shoulder and there is an eagerness to show the world that one’s aptitude does not necessarily depend on the law school that they come from. In any case, NLSIU alumni do not choose to work with me and I have had all of two NLSIU products work with me in all these years! My best juniors have come from the local law colleges. My first junior, Nidhishree, was a gold-medallist from the ULC, Bangalore and has proved to be fine advocate with a bright future ahead of her.

     

    Is there any other suggestion you would like to give to our budding lawyers?

    The Law is an amazing universe – with diversity and depth, with unsolved mysteries and with room for everyone who accepts it whole-heartedly. But, as they say in cricket, no one is bigger than the game.

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  • Sankalp Sharma, Partner at Sankalp Sharma & Associates on How he established an independent practice

    Sankalp Sharma, Partner at Sankalp Sharma & Associates on How he established an independent practice

    Sankalp Sharma graduated from NLIU, Bhopal in 2010. He thereafter joined the Office of Manjit Singh Ahluwalia and then moved on to work with Virender Goswami & Associates. His work at these places spanned a time period of almost 2 years. In June 2012, he started up with Sankalp Sharma and Associates.

    We asked him to share his insights of:

    • Building a career in litigation
    • Building up a firm clientele
    • Challenges of setting up a law firm on one’s own

     

    How did law happen? Did you ever think of alternate career options?

    Law for someone like me, was always the most logical thing to do, the idea was to be someone that is both independent and socially useful. Growing up all that I wanted to be is someone who’s not dependent on others for survival, I guess the idea has stuck and found the basis behind a lot of decisions that I take in life. I believe I was just made for litigation.

     

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    Tell us about your years in law school. Do you believe that excellent CGPA is the key to all success?

    Years in law school can be summarized as the most amazing learning experience both academically, socially, and personally. For a person who comes from a small city, every day spent at the NLIU was absolutely worth it. I took part in almost everything that came my way, be it mooting, client counselling, being part of organization committees of different events organized at the Institute. The idea was rather simple, I wanted to know more and more about different spheres of people in the society, how they function, how do they approach difficulties and these minute observations can only be made when you participate, no matter what event it is, different people that you meet and participate with, each and every one of them will teach you something new. I personally believe mooting definitely made a huge difference. It helped me to learn the skill of penetrative and focused research, structured presentations, anticipation and on the spot witty responses that in a real life court room make a huge difference.

    Whether CGPA is key to all success, the answer is definitely not, however CGPA is for sure key to most of the success. I am yet to find people, out of law school, who have done well for themselves academically and not in professional life. The academic years make the foundation of what you turn out to be later. In whatever little time I have spent in the profession, I can tell you this much, that it does not allow you to rework your basics, you may find people really working hard in professional life and succeeding without having great CGPA’s; however, with same hard work people with good CGPA’s have done wonders. Amongst all the fun and once in lifetime experience at the Institute, we must never forget that the basic reason we are at that place is to learn.

     

    What were your areas of interest during your graduation?

    I fell in love with the constitution, right at the nascent stages of my college life, It was followed by contract, CPC, CrPC, Company Law, Competition law and so forth. The principle that I personally followed with my academic work was to keep it really simple, multiple readings of the bare provision followed by prolonged discussions with professors and my friends. I have found that there is no shortcut to learning, you simply have to study. Participating in events always help and one should do more and more, life post college turns extremely competitive, your participations help you hone your skills, be it speaking, logical thinking and analysis, it also helps you to built connections that help you in later years.

     

    Right after graduation, you joined the Office of Manjit Singh Ahluwalia where you worked for almost one year. How did your appointment take place? Please tell us about your experience working there.

    Mr. Manjit Singh Ahluwalia, is one of the leading advocates practicing in Delhi High Court. I had interned with him during my college years, at the last one, he made me an offer to come and join him, kind of what we call as PPO. Working with him I learnt the basics. The best thing about his office was that he had all sorts of matters, from civil to criminal work at High Court, from arbitrations to hard core trial matters. Personally he is a gem of a person, I would say an amazing defense lawyer, an intriguing legal mind with a knack of just ripping into the opposite side. He gave me a lot of freedom, right from drafting to arguments, and all that he ever said “go ahead and do it, I am right behind you”. The result was, right after passing out from the College, I was independently handling clients, arguing matters. My days with him taught me almost everything that one can possibly learn standing from defense side. He was the one, who taught me the practical fundamentals of independent litigation practice, the difficulties that you face and how to just keep going despite the ups and downs in the profession.

     

    You thereafter left the Office of Manjit Singh Ahluwalia to start working at Virender Goswami & Associates. What led to this shift? How was your experience working there?

    The Shift from Mr Ahluwalia to Mr. Goswami was a planned move. I had worked a lot with Mr Ahluwalia during my internship years as well, and after almost an year I realized that I was getting more and more comfortable, things were getting easier, I have followed a simple formula in life; don’t let yourself get too comfortable, if you are getting comfortable, means that your learning curve is starting to go down. So I decided that it’s time for me to move on, next I wanted to work at an office that has more work from the plaintiff/ prosecution side, I had to learn the art of prosecuting, Mr. Goswami again is one of the leading lawyers at Delhi High Court, I am yet to see any lawyer who is better than him in terms of cross examination of a witness, his was an art that has been learnt from years of practice, at times with him in a cross examination I could see him toying with the witnesses. Even before the cross examinations he would predict the responses to each and every question, the detailed planning and possible tactics were well thought of, the depth and understanding of evidence law that he posses is unmatched, with him I learnt looking at matters differently, more from the perspective of how something gets proved, what facts will make your case and how to put them correctly.

     

    After having worked at Virender Gowami & Associates for one year, you started your independent practice. What prompted you to make this choice and start a law firm?

    I worked with Mr. Goswami for one and a half year, the idea of starting on my own was always on my mind, the plunge was again based on the same fundamental, life getting too comfortable. While working at both the offices, I had already started working on my social contacts, people had started approaching me with small matters, once the number started increasing to a level where I felt I could take the risk of starting on my own, I just went for it.

     

    How did you overcome your initial jitters in a courtroom full of experienced lawyers and judges? Tell us about the highs and lows.

    You never overcome the small amount of nervousness, at least I haven’t , I personally believe that it’s a good thing, it means that you are serious about your job. I was never too overawed by big lawyers and judges, for me they were always people from whom I had to learn, yet maintain my own individuality. My High came in terms of one of the matter that I argued for a socially backward class girl that was thrown out of a school, the matter was greatly argued at the High Court level and ultimately went up to the Supreme Court where it was compromised with school consenting for admission. The low came in terms of a matter in the Supreme Court, The matter was relating to a lady who killed a man trying to rape her, the matter embroiled in a political controversy and resulted in her conviction for life. I tried my best to build a case up In Supreme Court, yet despite my best efforts I could not make a good case.

     

    Did you ever consider a career in the corporate sector? Is it better to work in the corporate sector for a few years before starting litigation?

    I was always inclined towards litigation, I Just loved the feel of court rooms, the big arguments, the entire set up, However, I did my internships on the corporate side as well, just to be sure that I am not made for it. Preferring corporate or litigation is always a personal choice, it is also a personality choice, some of us are simply not made for the rigors of litigation, some of us don’t have the patience to see it though, at times financial reasons don’t allow you to chose litigation as well. Litigation without doubt takes a lot of courage, a little madness, you have to be mentally strong, give up the natural human tendency to go for the comforts of life, money, stability etc. Especially when you know that you too could easily take that route. If you intent to litigate, the early you start the better it is for you, if you enter into corporate world, it makes you comfortable in terms of financial stability, and after that its hard to enter litigation where financial stability is a big question.

     

    Please tell us a bit about “Sankalp Sharma & Associates”. What is a day at work like? Is it easy to have a work-life balance?

    We are a start-up, the idea is to provide professional, honest and comprehensive solutions to legal issues. We are focused in providing legal solutions to our clients that would help them in long term business development as well. Integrity, sincerity and honesty is what we live by. Working at office is based on a simple philosophy of “we do what we say.” The most difficult part is to build up a clientele and fulfil the commitment that we give to our clients. With a start-up your reputation is always tested and is on the line each and every time. The work life balance is obviously not easy to maintain, you have to make schedule and try your best to follow it, at times it works at times it doesn’t and that’s life.

     

    If someone who works with you makes a mistake or an error in an assignment what course of action do you follow as a partner?

    Work culture is simple, be sincere and work hard, in a litigation office, the challenges are never-ending, every matter has its own twist, litigation has nothing predictable, trust me. Mistakes are part and parcel of our lives, all of us make them, and the idea is to learn and not to repeat it again. All that I expect from people who work with me is to give their 100 %, as long as you are doing it, all is fine.

     

    What were the difficulties you faced in the early days of your practice? How difficult would you say it is to build a reputable practice?

    The most difficult part in the early years of practice, especially when you are young is to make your client believe that, though you do not have grey hairs on your head, the grey matter inside is good enough to give the opponents a good run for their money. Initial infrastructure developments, financial managements, building social contacts are obvious difficulties. However, the hidden difficulties that you face is the constant question mark that people around you put up to you about your success, the capacity to keep the fire burning despite a series of bad days, lack of clients and so forth.

    It’s not only about the practice, anything in life that you want to make big, will come with its own baggage of problems, no one will ever say that I became successful in life without going through the problems associated with it. Similarly in practice the problems are many, yet you will always have answers to them, if you are willing to put your heart and soul into it.

    One cannot fix a time frame to build a clientele, for one it’s a continuous process. Secondly it greatly depends on your social contacts and connections with the right people and the hard work that you put in to it. However, in my experience, if you are reasonably active and connected and are working heard and sincere with your work, your practice should start to move in span of two years, a decent clientele would take reasonable 5 to 7 years to build.

     

    What can the law schools do to encourage more people into litigation? Do you think the law school curriculum requires overhaul?

    I personally believe, that no one can encourage you to be in litigation, it is a very personal and introspective choice in life, law schools are not structured to make someone make a certain choice. Moreover, litigation is not merely a profession, it’s how you choose to live your life till the end of days and no law school, no person can make it for you, no one can push you to take it either. It should always be a well thought of decision in life. I don’t think that law school curriculum needs an overhaul, it only needs restructuring. I have a very firm belief that the role of the law school is limited to make a young mind look at the various options he has in life, introduce him to an amazing number of subjects and choice, ,teach him to read law, and thereafter leave him free to make his own path, curriculum etc are very minute things in the bigger picture of life.

     

    Do you take interns? What do you look for in a prospective applicant?

    We do take interns, the procedure is similar to most of the places, you write to us and we respond back with loads of question to see you fit our requirement or not. What we look for is sincerity, hard work and the ‘never say no’ attitude.

     

    What would be your message to law students who dream of having their own law firm one day?

    If you have a dream be it owning your own law firm or any other thing, you have to treasure it, see it as a small plant, that has to be nurtured, protected from the storm and lightning, you have to have that belief in you and your dream to make it a reality. Hard work, sincerity, patience, perseverance, self belief, honesty, integrity and never say never attitude are qualities or pillars on which your dreams will stand.

    For litigation, you should start as early as possible, in law school focus on core subjects like Constitution, CPC, CrPC, Evidence, TPA, IPC and the likes, develop the capacity to study for long hours, develop skills of research and speaking. Participate in as many competitions that you can. Don’t focus on big names while your internships, rather focus on places that have loads of work and less hands, so that you get an opportunity to deal with the real things, work at places where you can see a variety of work, place that gives you freedom to implement your learning and ideas. Start working on your social contacts at a very early stage; decide which areas you are most comfortable with and which city you would want to start your practice at. Work for some time with a good office so as to give yourself sometime to make your presence felt in that circle and lastly, once you have that self belief that you are ready. Take the Plunge.

     

  • Suhas Baliga, Principal at Innove Law, on quitting Law Firms and starting up

    Suhas Baliga, Principal at Innove Law, on quitting Law Firms and starting up

    Mr. Suhas Baliga graduated from NLSIU, Bangalore in 2008. He thereafter joined Luthra and Luthra and then moved on to Trilegal. His work at law firms spanned a time period of almost 4 years. Thereafter he moved on to co-found Impact Law Ventures in 2012. In June 2014, he started up with Innove Law which focuses on investment and corporate advice to seed, early stage and growth-stage companies, with a team of three associates.

    We asked him to share his deep insights on:

    • Life at a Law School
    • Building up a firm clientele
    • Challenges of setting up a law firm on one’s own

     

    Tell us a bit about your childhood and pre-college life as well as educational background. Did you have lawyers in your family?

    No. I haven’t had any lawyers in my family as such. Is it helpful to have lawyers in the family? Yes. But at the same time it is not necessary. You can also bring in lawyers into the family by marrying into one! The more difficult part of becoming a lawyer can be setting up a law practice from ground up. I wasn’t brave but had the initial good fortune of working in a firm which paid its associates well and which did not privilege family background but this is not the case with law firms in general. There is some preference for families not because we are a feudal country but because the way law firms are organised and ownership is structured, it favours closely held ownership and management, though things are changing. I never imagined myself to be a lawyer. It was a matter of chance that I went to law school. I was surprised and taken aback since that was the only law school entrance exam that I took while looking forward to engineering since that was something everybody did in Karnataka at that time. In hindsight I am happy I didn’t follow the herd.

     

    So did you prepare for a career in technology or medical before that?

    I did not ever think there is only one path. It is more of a question of what I found interesting at every point of time. Apart from being interested in politics, I was interested in pure sciences. In fact when I was in my 12th, I was either watching the news or studying physics. Because in science there were other subjects to study like biology and chemistry I used to enjoy what I used to do.

     

    What made you gravitate towards the study of law at NLS? Was it planned or just a matter of chance?

    NLS turned out to be a pleasant surprise. I was happy that I wasn’t doing engineering like everyone else and doing something different there. The fact that it was an Arts course where there was history and economics was fun. I always liked reading and writing and this aspect of the course was especially attractive. When I joined NLS it used to have a good public law focus. It used to have three constitutional law courses and three political science courses – I think the arts and public law aspects of law courses have great value in moulding an all-round lawyer. A strong grounding in constitutional law, administrative law and arts subjects also makes for a better corporate lawyer given its influence on legal and regulatory issues in general.

     

    Was the shift from science to BA.LL.B difficult?

    Not really. I remember having my first class at NLS where the professor was talking about a ball which was hit by a cricket bat and it fell outside and landed on the head of a fan in the audience, I found it all very flimsy. After calculus and thermodynamics, it seemed pretty thin. Also what puzzled me is that people used to make notes on these things! I never felt the subjects to be extremely challenging although I found some law subjects fascinating, especially where they intersected with arts subjects or where they are grounded in first principles, such as jurisprudence, criminal law, law of trusts, contract and transfer of property. Even after my 3rd year in college I wasn’t sure of doing law. I worked on a literary magazine for the college and everybody knew me as someone who writes and not someone dribbled in the professional life of law. Although I was sad when I was graduating because of not having extremely high grades, I was happy to have used the five years of college to explore varied interests and passions. In my own way at my own pace that was the best thing about college. In hindsight, I feel I took education like education should be taken. If you were to ask me, at the same time I did not take to everything about law school. I found certain aspects mundane, such as “mooting” and debates, even though a large part of my work today involves negotiating, presenting and having conversations with real people.

     

    Law school can be monotonous at times. What different things did you do these five years at NLS?

    I picked up on certain interests I had before but the law school culture certainly played a part by exposing new avenues to explore them, be it music, movies, theatre, women (!), books. There was much to do. I did participate in things recognizing that college is that period of life where you build relationships both professional/personal and expand your mind and explore new ideas.

    Grades certainly may be a significant criterion, yet ironically if an analysis is made between people who scored at the top of their class and their current state of affairs, the result might be surprising. Grades may give one a good push, probably a foreign law firm job but it is not going to make one’s career. In fact, as a lateral higher when you send an application I doubt your grades will be looked at very closely.

     

    Tell us about your internships. Did you get any institutional support for internships from your college? Any remarkable internship experience which shaped up your career?

    So as far as my internships were concerned, my idea was to broad base them and never to do the same thing twice. First year I interned with a newspaper, Second year I interned with Ramchandra Guha, Third year I interned with a litigator, and in my Fourth year I did a corporate internship and oddly it was then that I discovered some interest in the legal profession. My journey as a corporate lawyer started when I was with Lexygen in Bangalore. When I joined them in their first few months, there were only three lawyers there. Lexygen was an amazing place because there was this young team who were trying to build something big. They used to love doing what they were doing and continue to do so today.

     

    suhas-baliga

    Did you find that your law school education had prepared you sufficiently for the many tasks you were required to execute during your internship?

    Absolutely not. In no way did law school prepare me for an internship. Most of the internships showed me that the work as a lawyer often has little to do with anything that I had studied at law school. One of the major criticisms of law schools today in the profession is that they hardly put any emphasis on analytical and critical reasoning. They don’t learn the method neither do graduating students have an eye for detail or focus on the outcome of what you are doing and what the practical aspects are. You learn some cases and principles and feel very intelligent but the moment there is a real situation before you, you do not know how to react. In India, law practice and academics have been divergent and much needs to be done to bridge this gap. The intersection between teachers and academicians in the university and practising lawyers and professionals is very limited.

     

    What do you feel about the perception that students of certain ‘elite’ NLU’s have a much easier time in kick-starting their career as compared to law students from other colleges?

    It shouldn’t ideally matter which law school you go to. The only difference that I see, not to blow my own horn, is that in NLS during my years, we had to do some 60 term papers out of which 30-40 were serious, so that amount of writing brings in some amount of practice on how to write. So I do give NLS due credit for teaching you how to write. Whether you learn it or not is a different matter. With a lot of other colleges also they have applied the same model but most of the writing they do are for their final exams. I think it is more of a question of rigour and how much work you end up doing and if you are required to do certain amount of work it pushes you to do that amount of work. I think the greatest difference between what is considered a good college like NLS and others are the networks. And that is the only sort of advantage and this is across the board in every industry. In IIM Ahmadabad, your juniors and seniors all of them are from IIM Ahmadabad. It is an old boys club that you can tap into later. And yes there may be a difference in kinds of the professors that you deal with and the kinds of courses that you take up. There were some amazing batch mates and professors during my time with whom I built amazing relationships with. So there are obviously many intangible advantages of going to a good college which may or may not have anything to do with the actual skills that you learn.

     

    Like networking and alumni circle, basically?

    It is not just about alumni, but also the people who come after you in the college and the ability to network across a bunch of lawyers. E.g. I was Roll no 1291. There were 1290 lawyers before me. And now it has come down to 1800 or 2000 or so. There were 2000 lawyers from my college which is not such a huge number and a lot of them were well dispersed across the profession. So now if I want reference in different firms it can be somebody from my college, or if I want to hire people I may send reference to them. So yes it is a network, but more importantly, in terms of your college also you have a residential environment where people engage with each other a lot which has a certain intrinsic value. It is an example of a soft advantage which may not be directly linked what an institution is bringing to them but it is more like an ecosystem wherein it allows people from different spheres to come across, get to know each other and build a professional network. In the long run however, your ability to build networks is dependent on the efforts you put in, and the longer you spend out in the profession the less important your alumni networks become.

     

    So you may agree to the fact that it is more about the student community of the university and not directly linked to the university itself?

    Yes, and that is unfortunate and it is not the ideal situation. The university should contribute to who you are. I am not saying that NLS did or didn’t but there indeed is a lot of scope for improvement, and this is the same thing with an LL.M too. I don’t think a LL.M degree from Harvard makes one a better lawyer as much as give you access to another network. I do not mean to in any way discount the exposure that comes from attending great institutions and taking courses seriously.

     

    After graduating from NLSIU you directly joined Luthra & Luthra. How did the appointment take place? Tell us what a typical day at work was like for you?

    So after my experience in Lexygen, Luthra & Luthra had picked me up for an internship. My internship went well and I liked everything about it. 2008 was a fantastic time, I was interviewed, and they offered me the job. It was a great year even for people like me who were at bottom of my class given that half of my class was taken up by foreign firms.

    Once I joined Luthra and Luthra, I worked with the infrastructure, banking and finance practice. The first six months of Luthra were as or more challenging than five years of law school. Apart from hard work, having to learn very quickly, having to deal with clients, being in situations where you do not understand anything yet you are forced to understand. I was fortunate to have very smart people work with me and that was a fantastic thing to happen in the first year of your career. It was a great place to work at with a comfortable atmosphere and a fair degree of freedom to innovate and yet have high expectations. I used to deal with bureaucrats, anchors, policy issues and policy making, issues in terms of documentation for the infrastructure sector, how contracts should be modelled, high level discussions on how a project can be structured, and in an old fashioned way we learnt to read everything twice, be very thorough. It was also very broad based because there was the corporate side, the contract and commercial side, the legal and regulatory side. After 3 years I felt I needed a change, because I was doing a lot of things which I have done before and I wanted to explore new avenues.

    Trilegal offered me a position in Bombay and ensured that I will have a good mix of work that I had done in the past and what I wanted to do. I was there only for a year so I can’t really judge though I wasn’t really particularly thrilled with the shift as Trilegal had very little work in my practice areas at the time and I wasn’t assigned a stable senior resource to work with. It was in my time there that the bug of enterprise bit me. When I got out of Trilegal, it was clear that I wanted to do something which builds on my experience. It has to innovate and has to be the result of the knowledge that I have inculcated from working with law practice. I also felt there was much that could be done better and decided to move towards setting up my own model.

     

    You thereafter left Trilegal to start your own venture. What were your ideas while quitting Trilegal? What were the challenges you faced starting up with Policy Craft and Impact Law Ventures?

    There was no idea honestly. Like I said my idea was to build on my past experiences and skills that I had like in corporate finance, debt and equity finance, project finance,  and the various skill sets that I had,  and also in terms of building some sort of regulatory practice in terms of being able to do more in research and analysis and advocacy. When I started out the first transaction that came to me, and started working with similar early stage investments, it was 2012 and the early stage market was picking up. In the course of 2012, I learnt what kinds you need to deal with and the kind of market for legal service there is and I think that was very useful when I started working with my partner, Pankaj.

    After quitting Trilegal, there was one month where I borrowed money from my father. Unfortunately I had saved no money! I don’t really see it as a challenge but just me. I have been out on my own for two and a half years now and I see this as a lot less risky as opposed to working with a law firm. Over there, you tick one or two people off and you may just get fired. In a law practice where you serve clients, the relationship is more goal oriented and broad based. It may be risky to have a technology start-up but that is not the case with a law start-up. The latter is built on relationships with clients who trust you, which if maintained well are relationships for life.

     

    You have worked at larger law firms earlier and then after starting your own firm do you feel the work/life balance has changed? Is it more comfortable be your own boss or is the pressure of work almost similar?

    I understand bigger law firms better now that I have seen the business side of having run my own law firm. Most fresh corporate lawyers have an extreme sense of entitlement and typically don’t understand that law firms are a service provider and their clients are service recipients. When you think about the law firm model, or start your own firm, how to pay your employees etc, it gives you a greater insight into how a law firm works. People think if one becomes a corporate lawyer, then one has to draft documents, one would have to read this and that, which is like saying, if I become a Chef I would have to cut bananas! I think creating value for your clients using your abilities to the best you can is the most important.

    So in this profession, if you think that there are some people who get work and some who will do the work, then it means that you don’t recognize that work involves handholding your clients apart from drafting their documents or advising them or giving them memos. I don’t think the way the profession is structured right now; you can really make the distinction and think you are one or the other. If you do you are running a risk. If you can only sell and can’t practise the law, or if you can only practise the law and not sell or manage, either way you would be putting yourself at risk. So ideally, there is no such thing as a rainmaker. There are good lawyers and there are bad lawyers.

     

    Tell us a bit about your current occupation in Innove law.

    One of the things I learnt in the last two and a half years is that there is a community in India that is looking at building businesses which are driven by innovation and explore completely new models, either in terms of technological base or processes or in terms of the kinds of services they are trying to provide to the populations they are trying to serve. A lot of these businesses that are today’s small or that are growing have very interesting entrepreneurs, investors, stakeholders who are trying to build something larger tomorrow and this is the client base that interests me and I feel that the number of people who are starting up or building new businesses, need to go up and they have to do businesses in India in a way that safeguards their interests. So a lot of work that I do and that we intend to do here, whether it is with the clients, or with the policy or regulatory side, is focused on serving this group. We do this by representing entrepreneurs when they are negotiating their investments, represent investors when they are investing, represent businesses when they are growing, give legal advice concerning strategic issues that start-up businesses face amongst other things. This is just a simple way to describe it.

     

    Where do you see yourself in five to ten years down the line?

    So there are two things, in terms of 5 years and Innove law, I would like to see that the clients that we are working with right now and the clients that come to us will grow and will help in pulling the firm along. In 10 years from now, I would like to see myself having published at least one book. It can be fiction or non-fiction. But everyday what drives me is that the people that I work with today own tomorrow. It is fantastic to see your client who was fresh out of college when you first represented him is running a 100 million dollar company. There is nothing like that.

     

    What would be your advice to our readers who may be aspiring to start their own law firms one day?

    My advice to them would be that from day one, build relationships with your clients and colleagues and work hard. Read everything that comes to your desk.  Be imaginative.

  • Robin David, Equity Partner at Dua Associates on career in corporate litigation

    Robin David, Equity Partner at Dua Associates on career in corporate litigation

    Robin David is currently a Partner at Dua Associates, Delhi. He graduated in B.Sc from Loyola College and thereafter completed his LL.B from Bharathiar University in 1989. Right after his graduation he joined the Bar and had been independently litigating. His practice areas included Contracts, Company Law, Competition Law and other corporate matters.

    With an in-depth expertise in various corporate matters and prior experience of 12 years in litigation, Robin joined Dua in 2002 and had since been working there. With his formidable experience in litigation he was quickly elevated to the rank of a partner in 2004. In 2013, he was made an equity partner.

    We took this opportunity and requested him to share:

    • His experience of litigation as a fresh law graduate
    • Building reputation and clientele in litigation
    • The role of higher education in building an illustrious career
    • The journey from a law student to becoming a partner at one of the leading law firms in India

     

    How would you introduce yourself to our readers who are primarily budding lawyers? Did you belong to a family of lawyers?

    I am a practicing lawyer for about 25 years. Legal practice is a great and exciting challenge. The legal profession gives one the opportunity to learn and to adapt. Most importantly lawyers have a great opportunity to do justice. I believe that lawyers have a significant role to play in the justice delivery system. I am the first lawyer in my family.

     

    You are a B. Sc. (Physics) graduate from Loyola College. Could share with us any specific incident which motivated you to pursue law as a career?

    I initially wanted to study engineering or science. However, since my childhood my mother told me that I would make a good lawyer. She implanted and reinforced confidence in me. So I applied for law more out of [sociallocker]my faith in her belief. I qualified the entrance examination. After few years of practice I realised how right she was because this profession is definitely for me.

     

    Being a science graduate, did you face any difficulties in law school? A lot of students from science stream pursue law after their 12th and face a lot of difficulties in studying subjects related to law. Can you share with us certain tips to overcome this issue?

    I do not believe being a science graduate is a disadvantage to pursue legal studies. Nor do I think that students from arts/humanities will have a considerable edge over science students while studying law. The study of science encourages analytical thinking, which in my opinion is one of the vital ingredients for legal studies and practice. The most important phase of learning for a litigation lawyer is during the first few years in practice.

     

    robin-david-1Did you do any internship during the course of your studies? What kind of work did you come across during your internships?

    I did not have an opportunity to intern as a student. This was probably because there was no mandatory requirement to intern at that time.

    However, I believe internships today are important. Internships provide an opportunity for students to learn about the application of law and get insights into the legal profession. Interns will be well advised to take their internships seriously. Ideally, interns should be willing and open to learn and know more about legal practice.

     

    You were also in the cricket and hockey team of your college. How important is it for one to engage in other activities apart from academics and professional interests?

    I started paying cricket from the age of 2. I have always been interested in sports and sporting activities. I played a bit of cricket, hockey and table tennis during school and college. Now I play cricket for my firm. I play golf as well. I believe it is necessary to engage in sporting activities and activities apart from academics and professional work. Being physically fit is crucial. Lawyers would do well to invest time on fitness and physical well being.

     

    Did you ever think of joining the civil services after graduating? Which career options were available to a law graduate in 90s?

    Civil services did cross my mind albeit not seriously. As far as I can remember the openings/options available to young lawyers were mainly to:

    • work as a junior lawyer (with little or no pay)
    • to join as law officer in any organisation/bank
    • join civil services
    • go abroad for LLM or to study LLM in India

     

    When you started your practice in 1990, how was the court atmosphere? How did the judges respond to young and new lawyers like you? What were the major challenges faced by you in the initial years of your practice?

    The courts are much more crowded now. The first challenge was to decide where to start work. Another challenge was learning the court procedures and practical aspects of legal practice. I was fortunate to commence work in the Delhi High Court. All seniors and judges were generally encouraging and helpful. However, the process of learning procedural law and how to face the Court is something every practicing lawyer will have to figure out on their own. The legal community is based on the seniors wanting to teach and the younger members of the Bar being open to learn. The junior lawyers were always respectful to the seniors and the institution. I also faced financial challenges because I was initially given a small stipend but I believe that such hardships actually help and motivate aspiring lawyers to work harder and be better advocates.

     

    How did you build up your clientele? How many years of practice do you say it would require to build a firm clientele?

    I am not aware of a formula to build a clientele nor can you stipulate a time line. I do not believe there is a formula to build up clientele. However, I have learnt that building clientele requires hard work, honesty, time, result oriented thinking and several other factors. In my experience I have found that the clients trust honest and sincere counsel. Knowledgeable lawyers do have an edge, however they are expected to be sincere to the cause and be honest. Lawyers should build up a good reputation for themselves.

     

    You have experience in litigation of around 25 years. Can you share with us your experience as a practising lawyer?

    Lawyers are trustees of the legal system. A lawyer is responsible to act with integrity and maintain public confidence in the judicial system. To be a successful litigation lawyer one must belong to a court in addition to knowing the basics of law. Counsel must be aware about their court and keep themselves abreast of the changes and developments. Counsel must be involved in Bar Association and participate in the court and association activities. Counsel should contribute to court related activities such as legal aid, arbitration, mediation, etc. I have had the good fortune of working with some great lawyers. I have also been a lawyer for the Delhi High Court Legal Services Committee since 2008. Learning from watching and observing court proceedings is an essential part of being a good lawyer.

     

    As a practising lawyer how did you manage to learn the basics of court room practice? Did you have anyone to guide and mentor you during the initial days of your practise?

    No doubt one learns from the seniors and colleagues whom you work with. I leant a great deal from observing others and noticing the reactions from the judges.

    I believe a lawyer requires to have a mentor not only during the initial years of practice but also later on. Initially mentoring is done by seniors but later you have to become your own mentor. A very important aspect of legal practice is the ability to evaluate yourself. Even the Bar Council of India recommends mentoring and training by lawyers.

     

    If someone does not go to a top law school, would you say he still has a shot at a great career in law? What should such a person do to develop necessary skills and profile?

    Going to a top school per se does not make you a good lawyer. Honest effort and hard work make a good lawyer regardless of the school.

     

    How did you get an opportunity to work with Dua Associates? How is your work at Dua Associates different from your independent practice?

    I began my association with Dua Associates in 2002. At that time I put in about 12 years of hard work as a legal practitioner and was already known for my work as a litigating counsel.

     

    Having been at Dua Associates since 2002 as a manager in the litigation team, you were promoted into the equity partnership; what qualities do you think helped you to achieve this status?

    Though I joined as manager in 2002, I was made partner in 2004. I was made equity partner in 2013. It involved sincere hard work and time.

     

    When you hire interns under you, what kind of qualities do you look for? What should an intern do to get noticed in a positive way?

    Honesty, hard work and commitment to work are important qualities in interns. I see interns who are there only for the sake of putting it on their CV.

     

    What changes has being a partner brought into your life, do you ever feel that there is excess of work load on you? How do you manage to strike a balance between your personal and professional life?

    Ever since I have started work as an advocate I have put in many hours of work every day. Becoming partner did not have any significant change to my professional working style. Have realised the importance of team work and have the need to contribute to the larger cause. Law is a calling and not a job.

     

    Do you feel that great lawyering skills are sufficient for a person to become a partner? What separates the people who become partner from those who don’t?

    Partners’ skills should complement one another. Ideally, if one is good at business development then the other partner would be good in other set of skills. Further skills can be learnt. Though, in my opinion a law firm needs persons having different sets of skills. Partners are those with great sets of skills and also those who show commitment to the growth and development of the firm.

     

    Do you feel that higher education helps a person to have a successful legal career? What would be your word of advice to students who wish to go for higher studies?

    It would depend on what you are looking for. For an advocate, LL.B is sufficient because practical knowledge can only be gained on the ground.

     

    How is the work culture at Dua Associates? If an associate commits a mistake or an error what course of action do you follow as a partner?

    A partner is responsible. In Dua Associates the Partners are the team leaders and oversee the work of the team. For example, if a plaint is drafted for a client the draft would be carefully seen by a Partner before it is sent to the client.

    Associates who repeat mistakes or stop learning will at least be talked to.

     

    What qualities do you think one should possess to carve out a niche for himself in this field?

    I believe hard work, honesty and sincerity are important qualities. Always be ready and willing to learn. Additionally one must be aware of the system and surroundings.

     

    What would be your message to our readers who are budding lawyers and law students?

    • Justice is important. Lawyers have a great opportunity to play a role in the justice delivery system. Many prominent lawyers have played important roles and contributed to the Indian freedom struggle. Lawyers can have significant involvement in society and can set the standards. Legal practice is a calling and not a job.
    • Honesty and sincerity in counsel are traits that are always respected by the judges, clients, briefing counsel and even opposing counsel. A lawyer must conduct himself with dignity.
    • Building a good reputation is necessary. A lawyer should carefully guard his reputation.
    • A lawyer should always be conscious of his/her role as officers of the court.
    • Young court lawyers should read the briefs and be well prepared. Know your facts. I have seen many young lawyers who are in a hurry to go up the ladder and look for shortcuts to grow. There are no shortcuts.

     [/sociallocker]

  • Arvind P. Datar on the job of a Senior Advocate, taxation law and writing authoritative law books

    Arvind P. Datar on the job of a Senior Advocate, taxation law and writing authoritative law books

    Arvind P. Datar is a prominent Senior Advocate at Madras High Court and one of the finest lawyers in South India. He graduated from Dr. Ambedkar Government Law College, Chennai. He is also known for his books ‘Nani Palkhivala: The Courtroom Genius’, ‘Datar Commentary on Constitution of India’ and ‘Guide to Central Excise Law and Practice: With Accounting Practices’.

    We requested him to share his deep insights on:

    • Being a Senior Advocate
    • Establishing one of the finest litigation practices in taxation
    • Being the author of leading book on Central Excise and Constitution
    • Advice to young law students and lawyers

     

    Please tell us a bit about your pre-college years, you as a student, your ambitions as a kid. Did you have lawyers in your family or among close relatives?

    After my schooling in Pune, I completed my graduation from Bombay University. Initially, I wanted to join the merchant navy but I was medically disqualified due to a surgery. Thereafter, I continued my science degree and completed B.Sc (Hons.) in Physics and Mathematics. I was very active in debates at Bombay and decided to take up law. Accordingly, I returned to Madras and joined the Madras Law College. My grand -father and great grandfather were lawyers in Pune several decades ago. In the recent past, there have been no lawyers amongst my close relatives.

     

    What were your objectives when you thought about law while still in the preliminary years of Law College?

    After I joined the law college, I really enjoyed the subjects. We had wonderful set of lecturers in the first year. On account of the Emergency, [sociallocker]there were no strikes and classes were conducted regularly.

     

    What were your plans after graduation? Did you think of joining the Civil Services ever?

    I decided to specialize in taxation from the first year itself and, therefore, enrolled myself for the course in Cost Accountancy. I had law lectures in the morning and cost accountancy classes in the evening. I thought that this would help me in my tax practice and, indeed, it has proved to be immensely useful.

    From the first year, I had decided to practice as a tax lawyer and have not wavered even once I never thought of taking up any job or joining the civil service even once.

     

    How valuable would you say your legal education was? When did you actually experience the learning curve? What is your opinion when people say that all that they have learnt is in their years of practice?

    My first year in the law college was very useful and, till this date, the lectures on contract law and transfer of property are still fresh in my memory. In the second year, the emergency was lifted and the Janata Party came to power. Once again, we began to have strikes frequently. In the final year, we had hardly 50 days of college. For example, in constitutional law, the lecturer did not even commence Part III which was fundamental rights starting from Article 12. Therefore, the last two years of Law College were totally useless. Therefore, barring the first year subjects, all the students from my college were self-taught.

     

    How was the court atmosphere before, as distinguished from how it is now? Did judges take kindly to new orators? How was your experience in the first few sessions of the court? Do you think it has become more difficult for a fresher to be successful?

    There is no great difference in the court atmosphere prevailing in the 80s and now. Most judges are kind to juniors and encourage young lawyers who are well prepared and make an earnest effort. I was very nervous in my first few appearances but gradually this disappeared. It is not difficult today for new comers. In fact, there are far more opportunities now because of different and newer branches of law, regulators and tribunals.

     

    arvind-datar

    You have a long and illustrious career as one of the most reputed advocates in India. What are the primary soft skills necessary in order to have a successful career in the legal profession?

    I think no one is successful by accident in any professional career, whether law or medicine or architecture: The essential skills are: a thorough knowledge of the subject of specialization, the ability to work very hard, the courage not to take short- cuts, the patience to wait for opportunities to come our way and, finally, the ability to seize the opportunities when they appear.

    It is also essential to carefully set individual goals and then devise a plan of action to achieve them. It is necessary to have clearly defined goals and carefully plan the manner in which these goals will be attained. For a lawyer, a mastery of the English language is an invaluable asset. We have to acquire skills that are necessary to achieve our goals. For example, if one wants to specialize in taxation, a knowledge of accountancy is very helpful.

    Lastly, the most important thing is the ability to say no. To say “no” to activities that are not in tune with your long-term goals. It will be far more rewarding if one relentlessly pursues the long term goal by systematically attaining short-term and mid-term goals that are congruent with our long term goal. It is also necessary to have just one or two goals and not plan for too many things. Once, the long-term, mid-term and short-term goals are set, it is necessary to periodically review them to determine whether we are on the right track.

     

    People have an impression that it is important to know the judge more than the case. How much truth would you say lie in such a statement?

    This is basically wrong and there is too much loose talk and baseless gossip. There may be exceptional instances where this statement may be true but this is really rare.

     

    The judges are known to have a pre-conceived disposition towards being socialist, rightist, etc. How do you say young lawyers can argue for a matter which is against such disposition?

    If a judge has a strong pre-conceived disposition towards a particular ideology, it would be wrong to bring these notions to the Bench while hearing a case. Unfortunately, this does happen and socialist / leftist / rightist notions do influence the thinking of judges on the bench. Not only young lawyers but even senior lawyers will find it difficult to argue before a judge who has strong pre-conceived notions. It will require great skills of advocacy to persuade the judge not to allow his notion or ideology to influence the outcome.

     

    What were the landmarks of your career which led to your designation as a Senior Advocate? Please share with us the challenges and achievements you came across on your journey from being a fresh graduate to a Senior Advocate?

    There have been several cases which were stepping stones that eventually led to my designation as a senior advocate. I had specialized in taxation and company law and I argued a number of cases before the High Courts, Tribunals and Company Law Board. Further, my articles, books on Central Excise and my editing of Ramaiya’s Book on Company Law also helped to substantially increase my practice particularly in the Company Law Board. Eventually, I was appearing in a number of important company law, tax and commercial cases and this led to my designation as a senior advocate.

    The initial challenges were financial in nature and it took me 11 years to buy my first second-hand car. To supplement my professional income, I took to writing of articles, books and also being a part-time lecturer. This, indirectly, helped in building up my practice as well. By writing and giving lectures, one get’s known in corporate circles and this also increases your practice.

     

    How is it being a Senior Advocate? Do you think titles like this can change one’s recognition drastically? Does it enhance the responsibility? How has your work profile changed as a Senior Advocate?

    A senior advocate has great responsibility. The client and the advocate on record place all their trust in you. In most cases, the advocates on record and instructing counsel prepare the case very well and the senior advocate has then to plan the strategy for presenting the case. This has to be done after detailed examination of the facts, the case-law and the statutory provisions.

    My working profile drastically changed as a senior advocate. I was able to argue in a number of cases outside the area of my specialization. This also helped me to learn several new areas including arbitration, environmental law mining and intellectual property.

     

    You have several best-selling legal books like ‘Nani Palkhivala: The Courtroom Genius’, ‘Datar Commentary on Constitution of India’ and ‘Guide to Central Excise Law and Practice: With Accounting Practices’ to your credit. How important is writing for you?

    Writing is extremely important for me. In the earlier years, writing of articles and then writing of a book on Central Excise was critical in building my practice. The writing of books forced me to carefully study the statutory provisions and case laws. You have to understand the entire Act and the relevant subordinate legislation. You have to always keep in mind the object or purpose of the enactment. This understanding will not come even if we prepare extensively for a case. The writing of a book helps to understand the structure of a particular statute. One has to compare similar provisions in other enactments and development of law over several years.

    I have always told young lawyers that they must write a commentary in the area of their specialization.

     

    What do you look for in your interns when they apply for a position to work with you? If there is someone who wants your guidance, what should he/she do?

    Since substantial part of my practice relates to taxation, I insist that the interns should have completed a course in taxation. If they do not have a basic knowledge of taxation, their internship will not be fruitful. Whenever younger lawyers wanted my guidance /advice, I have always tried to help the young lawyers to the extent possible.

     

    There have been quite a few booms and busts in the legal industry. What do you think about the future of legal education in India? How do you say a student can manage to stay ahead of the ‘rat race’?

    I think that the future of legal education is not bright because there are too many law colleges and very few lecturers. It is not possible to have competent lecturers for all these institutions. Earlier, many lawyers were part-time lecturers. We had a number of successful lawyers who taught in the morning or in the evening. This excellent practice has unfortunately been discontinued. There must be a complete halt to any new law college as the supply far exceeds the demand. There must also be a strict entrance exam so that a minimum qualification standard is maintained.

    Students can stay ahead of the rat-race by constantly reading books, keeping abreast of the latest developments. Students must also make full use of their internship so that they can decide their area of specialization.

     

    What would be your advice to young law students? Whether they should join a firm or practice at bar? How should they approach the legal career?

    Young lawyers should join civil offices where there is extensive trial work. In my view, the best thing is to work for one year in civil office and another year in an office specializing in criminal work. This will give young lawyers an excellent foundation in basic civil and criminal laws. Thereafter, he can specialize in any subject. They can choose to become solicitors or focus on chamber practice. Alternatively, they can go into litigation. The two years spent in civil / criminal practice, will be very useful in dealing with a wide variety of cases and should be treated as a long-term investment.
    [/sociallocker]

  • Talha Salaria on founding ‘Lawyers at Work’, expertise in Corporate Law and building a career

    Talha Salaria on founding ‘Lawyers at Work’, expertise in Corporate Law and building a career

    Talha Salaria graduated from NLSIU, Bangalore. She has been a corporate lawyer for most of her career. She is the founder of Lawyers at Work.

    In this interview, we asked her about:

    • Her experiences as a founder of ‘Lawyers at Work’
    • Her experiences of practicing as a corporate lawyer.
    • Internship experiences and their importance in a student’s career

     

    When did you decide to take up law as a career?

    I didn’t choose law – I think law chose me. While I do have a few lawyers in my family, most of them went on to join the bureaucracy as IAS officers.

    I studied in Welham Girls High School, Dehradun. Since we were living together as boarders, we used to hear about various opportunities that are available for higher studies. I knew that I wanted to do a professional course and hence applied for the entrance exam of NLSIU, to have another option.

     

    You have been a corporate lawyer for most of your career. What prompted you to take up corporate law? Share with us some experiences which helped you to shape your career choices.

    When I started working I wanted to be financially independent. Unfortunately, litigation did not offer that opportunity since at that time (and maybe even now), it did not pay much, atleast initially. Moreover, I really enjoyed the atmosphere of corporate law firms. Most of my internships were with JSA where we were a small team, very focussed and yet we had a lot of fun. It was a great atmosphere and a very good platform for learning – I wanted to be a part of it.

     

    You started your career at J.Sagar Associates where you worked for six years. Thereafter, you co-founded MMB Legal. Were you always keen on having your own establishment?

    I was not keen on having my own establishment as such but over a period of time, I felt I had the risk appetite and the confidence to be able to do it. I do not necessarily make detailed long term plans but when I see an opportunity, I make sure that I respond to it immediately. The markets were good, the adrenalin was high – there was nothing stopping us!

     

    Almost five years after co-founding MMB Legal, you established your own law firm named “Lawyers at Work”. What prompted you to make this choice and what made this shift possible?Any specific reasons why you chose the name “Lawyers at Work”?

    I wanted to push myself to the limit – it is very challenging to set up on your own and it was a challenge that I wanted to explore.

    Choosing the name took a long time – I did not want to name the firm after myself – I was very clear about that. After much thought, we stumbled on a name that sounded good and exciting.

     

    Please tell us something about “Lawyers at Work”. What is a workday like?

    The key aspects that we focus on is learning and being a facilitator to the business of our clients rather than a cog in the wheels – therefore, we are very quality and timeline driven. At the same time, we like to ensure that everyone gets their weekend’s off and some personal time on a daily basis. There are very few rules – the idea is to take ownership of the work and also your conduct so that people come together as a team rather than based on hierarchies.

     

    What were the initial challenges you faced setting up “Lawyers at Work”? Having established a law firm earlier would you say it was easier for you the second time?

    It was definitely easier to set up the second time. Infact, MMB Legal was a great learning experience and a stepping stone for setting up L.A.W. The main challenge that we have faced right from the start is getting good people and attracting good talent. Our clients have been very supportive and we have not had any concerns regarding getting work, which is the typical concern for a start up.

     

    What is the most challenging or stressful part of being a founding partner of a law firm? Is it easy to have a work-life balance?

    The challenging part is to play so many different roles in a given day – administrator, rainmaker, mentor, lawyer – just to name a few. It keeps you on your toes. Given the fierecely competitive environment, especially in the Bangalore market, one needs to be constantly up to mark and creative in ensuring that you build yourself up brick by brick. I have a great work-life balance through it all – it is possible to have one with good time management and multi-tasking.

     

    Please share your experience starting up with a law firm for the benefit of law students and young lawyers who want to start up on their own.

    I would strongly urge young lawyers to focus on learning for the initial 10 years. The legal profession is a lot about experience and expertise which cannot be learnt in 1 or 2 years. Ideally, the young lawyers should litigate for atleast a couple of years and if they are in a corporate set up, they should focus on learning rather than aiming for the big figure salaries. Once the foundation is set, it is easy to set up and build on it later.

     

    The trend is now on gathering various internship experiences at different places. Was the scenario same while you were pursuing law? How is internship helpful for a law student?

    This trend was there even at our time. Internships are what you make of them. We have had interns who have come only for the sake of recording the internship on their resume and others, who, with the focussed work that they have done, have treated it as a rich learning experience. I remember when I was interning, I did my first due diligence and it was an eye opener for what was to come in future.

     

    Does your law firm take interns? If yes, then what is the application procedure? What do you look for in a prospective applicant?

    Yes, we take interns. The applicant can write to admin@lawyersatwork.in. We generally take one intern at a time to ensure that it is a fulfilling experience for the person.

     

    What would be your parting message to law students who want to be successful in corporate law?

    Hardwork, dedication and the right attitude will go a long way in being successful, and this applies to a career in corporate law as well.

     

  • Anirudh Krishnan on graduating from Oxford, leaving Clifford Chance to establish a career in litigation arbitration

    Anirudh Krishnan on graduating from Oxford, leaving Clifford Chance to establish a career in litigation arbitration

    Mr. Anirudh Krishnan graduated from NALSAR, Hyderabad and did his LL.M from Oxford University. He is the founder of AK Law Chambers, Chennai and has previously worked as a trainee solicitor at Clifford Chance, London. He specializes in the area of arbitration, commercial and constitutional litigation. He has authored the book “The Law of Reservation and Anti-discrimination, LexisNexis Butterworths Wadhwa Nagpur (2008)” and has edited “Justice Bachawat’s Law of Arbitration and Conciliation, LexisNexis Butterworths Wadhwa Nagpur (2010)”.

    We asked him to share his deep insights on:

    • Taking up arbitration as a career.
    • The importance of moot and other co-curricular activities.
    • Pursuing LL.M from Oxford University.
    • Being the author of a leading book on Arbitration and Conciliation.

     

    Please introduce yourself to our readers. Please tell us a little bit about your childhood and your background?

    I am an advocate, an academician, a family man and a travel enthusiast.

    I have spent all my childhood in Chennai. I come from a fairly conservative Tamilian family. My parents are both lawyers. My father is today a senior counsel and like most successful lawyers, has put in the hard work to come up as a litigator. My mother, though busy at work, has ensured that she was there for me at all points of time in my life. The attention that one gets during his/ her childhood largely shapes one’s character and I can say I have been lucky on this count. I have also been greatly influenced by my grandfathers, who have been role models for me.

    My schooling has had a considerable impact on my life. My school- Vidya Mandir is known for focusing on developing the right kind of value system in its students. Vidya Mandir does not expose its students to an ultra-competitive atmosphere till the 11th and 12th standards, the objective being to encourage students to take up activities other than purely academics. In school I used to play state level chess, a fair amount of tennis and also participated in numerous debates and public speaking activities. The public speaking comes in handy today.

    I must say that I was lucky to have had the kind of childhood that I did. While it was a shielded childhood I can say for a fact that the values instilled in me at that point of time ensured that I stood grounded during more challenging times ahead when I faced the real competitive world.

     

    What impressed upon you to take up law as a career?

    My entry into law was fairly dramatic. I had been focussed only on engineering despite the fact that my parents were both practising lawyers and had their own law firm. So when the prestigious National University of Singapore offered me a seat, I was off to Singapore only to realise that I wanted to pursue my under grad studies in India. I, then, joined a leading engineering college in Tamil Nadu which was affiliated to Anna University. In a funny turn of events, I ended up failing my first semester Physics (a subject about which I was passionate and in which I had always topped), by one mark. I was certain there had been mistake in the corrections/evaluation. I was completely disillusioned by the system and decided that I would attend law entrance classes and take the law entrance the following year. I found the legal reasoning course (taught by Mrs Hema Raman) so interesting that despite clearing the physics paper by 32 marks after applying for re-evaluation (I got 81 on 100 as against the 49 marks initially given), I stuck to my decision of changing over to law.

    When I look back at this incident, I relate very well to the philosophical statement that whatever happens, happens only for the good.

     

    How was your experience at NALSAR, Hyderabad? What activities were you involved in apart from the regular academic curriculum?

    Perhaps due to the hunger created by the waste of a year in Engineering College, right from day one at NALSAR, I was focused on achieving as much as I could academically. Most of my activities therefore were co-curricular activities such as moot court competitions, attending conferences, writing papers for publication, etc. I was keen to get  overseas exposure and I was among the first few students to represent my university in conferences in London and Australia. I was extremely interested in writing and published numerous articles in various journals, both Indian and International. In my 5th year, I also managed to convert my research on reservation and anti-discrimination into a book which was published by Lexis Nexis Butterworth Wadhwa, Nagpur. I used to play the odd game of cricket but during my 5 years in NALSAR my focus was primarily academic.

    I fondly remember my NALSAR days both from a personal and professional front. I made some very close friends at NALSAR- friends who will be there for me when I need them. Professionally, NALSAR provides a highly competitive academic atmosphere where you push yourself continuously to achieve more and more. This was the first time I was being exposed to such an atmosphere. The NALSAR experience (which in a way is similar to the real life experience) made me aware that to be amongst the top, you need to constantly update yourself and be on the move. You do not have time to celebrate what you have achieved- you constantly look at what is next. However, it gives you a high to be the first to do something and NALSAR provides you every opportunity to achieve this high.

    NALSAR also provided me the great privilege of being taught by the best of Professors- the late Professor Vepa Sarathi was a living legend- at the age of 95 he could still cite case laws far better than anybody I have ever seen. Professor Errabbi’s lectures on powers of the Parliament still reverberate in my ears. I also thoroughly enjoyed Professor Unni’s classes on IPR.

     

    What were your areas of interest during your graduation? How did you go about developing expertise and knowledge in these areas?

    There were a lot of areas that interested me- Contract Law, Intellectual Property Law, Arbitration, etc. If I were to pick my favorites during my stint at NALSAR, it had to be Constitutional Law and WTO Dispute Resolution. At one point in time, I was thinking about a career in WTO Law very seriously. That would have meant sacrificing all other areas of interest. I liked most areas of law and I did not really want to sacrifice all other areas to become a WTO expert.

    More than any specific area, I just like interpretation of law. I like the fact that as lawyer you would have to look at the same provision of law in two or three different ways based on the fact scenario and which side you are on. This is what fascinated me. It is these interpretational issues which created controversies. So what I would do was for our mandatory projects at NALSAR, I would look up some area in that subject which had caused a lot of controversy and I would request my professors that I be permitted to write on that controversial area. Not only will it make my project interesting but it would give me every opportunity of publishing my paper. Ultimately it is only when you write and research on controversial areas, do you hone your interpretational skills.

    Therefore while I did have my favorites, I have not been an area specific person. Yes, today I do a lot of commercial work, arbitration and company law work but that by itself is a fairly wide range. I am open to most of the other areas and I think if you want to be a litigation lawyer, you cannot say I want to be a person who super specializes in an area.

     

    What was your motivation behind doing an LL.M. from Oxford? Why not an LL.M. in India?

    I had taken a decision that I would identify 4 to 5 top universities and apply to them and if I did not get into those universities, I would not pursue my LL.M- I would come back to India and practice straight away. My choice was ultimately between Oxford and Stanford- Stanford had a fantastic arbitration course and Oxford was known for its common law centric courses. I preferred the latter. While today arbitration is one of my favorite areas and it is an area where I do a fair amount of work, my intention was always to come back to India and ultimately to become a senior counsel and for that an overall grounding is more important. Oxford is unparalleled when it comes to its common law training- common law originated in Oxford. It is for this reason that I chose to do my masters at Oxford. Oxford, Cambridge and Harvard have run the LL.M programmes for decades. Most of the Indian LL.Ms are comparatively new but are soon catching up.

     

    Please tell us how one should write a SOP for Oxford and other Ivy League Universities?

    Writing an SOP is like preparing a short marketing flyer of yourself. You need to see which of your achievements is likely to attract a University and package your SOP in such a manner that you link that achievement with your reasons for pursuing a LL.M and ultimately link the two up with your future goals. I was told by a senior who guided me through the LL.M application process, that an SOP was a 1 minute advertisement about yourself and that you had to catch the reader’s attention immediately so as to keep them interested. He was right.

    In addition to the above, I would also look at the areas that each university specialized in- for instance Oxford is known for its common law. I would also bring that into my reasons for application.

     

    Could you please tell us about your experience at Oxford University? How rigorous is the academic schedule?

    Oxford provides the best possible academic atmosphere in the world. I took a good mix of subjects- some purely theoretical and some case law heavy courses. My focus was on commercial law, international dispute resolution and aspects of constitutional law.

    The course was extremely hectic. There is a common belief that one “takes a break” while pursuing his/ her Masters in Law. While no doubt a person can choose to have it easy by taking easy courses, in my view adopting such a route would only be a huge waste of time and money. My course involved atleast 14 hours of reading every day.

    While the tangible benefits from the unjust enrichment and international dispute resolution courses are palpable, the intangible benefits are extraordinary. You start looking at the logic behind the law rather than only the letter of the law. It was an exhilarating experience to interact with legends such as Professors Gardner, Honore, Swadling, Edleman et al. Some of them used to interpret case laws in manners you did not think were even possible. A one to one with such persons has definitely helped me add to my skill sets. Ultimately, education is only about building skill sets.

    Even on the personal front, Oxford was good- that is the year I met my wife, Goda who was then pursuing her LL.M at London School of Economics.

     

    You have edited Justice R.S. Bachawat’s ‘Law of Arbitration and Conciliation’ and authored ‘The Law of Reservation & Anti-discrimination’. How was your experience authoring such scholarly books?

    In my 4th year at NALSAR, I wanted to write a book on the Law of Reservation. I got in touch with Mr KK Wadhwa of Wadhwa Publications- frankly I did not expect him to take me seriously as I was after all an unknown 4th year law student and he was India’s leading law book publisher. However, the encouragement he gave me was something I could never have imagined. Another person who made the book possible was my Vice Chancellor, Dr Ranbir Singh, because of whom the book was released by Mr P. Chidambaram, the then Finance Minister at my convocation. The book was published by LexisNexis Butterworths Wadhwa Nagpur. The book had the distinction of being placed in the libraries of various High Courts, the Supreme Court and the Parliament.

    The same publishers approached my good friend and then colleague at Clifford Chance, Anirudh Wadhwa and me to be the Chief-editors of the 5th edition of Justice R.S. Bachawat’s Law of Arbitration and Conciliation, which we took up. I am happy to say that the book has got wonderful reviews internationally including from leading Queen’s Counsel and academicians such as Mr David Joseph QC and Professor Rob Merkins. The book has also been cited by many Indian Courts.

    Book writing is a very exacting yet enjoyable experience. An author has to read every single case law on the point- for the arbitration book there were approximately 5000 cases which we had to read between the two of us. While there were a team of research assistants helping out with both books, it was ultimately for the authors to read each case and ensure that the ratio is extracted accurately.

    I can say that all the effort was worth it. Book writing helps improve your clarity of thought- you look at how best you can simplify a proposition for a reader and how best you can categorize propositions to keep a reader interested. Ultimately, what you do as an author is what you need to do as a litigating lawyer.

    The books have also got me a lot of recognition and today I can say a number of opportunities have opened up because of it. I have got invitations to speak at numerous conferences- Indian and international (including at places such as 39 Essex Street Chambers, London and Kuala Lampur Regional Centre for Arbitration), have had the distinction of being part of an elite panel constituted by the Chairman of the Law Commission (Justice A.P Shah) to deliberate upon proposed reforms to arbitration law, have had the chance to depose as an expert witness on Indian law in an ICC arbitration in London, have been appointed as an arbitrator, have been included as part of the panel of arbitrators of Nani Palkhiwala Arbitration Centre and have built a very good professional network owing to this recognition.

     

    You have worked at Clifford Chance as a trainee solicitor for a while before establishing your own law firm, AK Law Chambers. What made you come to India and start your own firm?

    I was of the view that work experience in a foreign jurisdiction would always come in handy. Therefore, even though I always wanted to litigate, when Clifford Chance, for the first time, wanted to recruit from India and called for applications, I thought that it was my best chance to get some foreign exposure. After a detailed screening process, I got the job. I decided that I would take up the job atleast for a period of two years and then take a call.

    I enjoyed my stint at CC especially the time I spent in the international arbitration department. More than even the law, CC taught me professionalism and client management. As a lawyer in India, unlike at CC, we often do not pay enough importance to deadlines and minor typographical faux pas in communication. My experience at CC holds me in good stead especially when I deal with foreign firms and MNCs.

    However, my stint at CC made it even more clear to me that I wanted to do contentious work (litigation and arbitration) and if that were so, it made sense to return to India as India provides far more opportunities to young lawyers than any foreign country. The salary to me was never a major factor since I was confident that hard work and focus would get me enough money someday.

     

    Tell us something about your firm, core areas of practice?

    A.K Law Chambers is a boutique practice primarily focusing on commercial and company litigation, arbitration and public law litigation. I have a team of four very sincere lawyers under me.

    Over a short period we have had the occasion to deal with a fair number of complex and high profile disputes. We have handled numerous arbitrations including the arbitrations relating to construction of the highest rail bridge in the world, to a huge hotel in Bangalore and the digitization of Government services in Tamil Nadu . We have also had the occasion to work on a number of Company law matters- shareholder disputes (including rectification preceding and oppression and mismanagement proceeding), winding up and insolvency matters, scheme of amalgamations and demerger etc. We also have a fair number of general commercial litigation and public law work including Writ Petitions pertaining to constitutional challenges, land acquisition matters etc. One especially interesting dispute which we handled was Writ Petition against the Competition Commission proceedings which had been initiated against all the car manufacturers. The matter involved numerous interesting issues of Competition law as well as Constitution law. We have also represented leading airlines, leading newspaper dailies in insolvency and related proceedings.

    We not only handle work at the High Court level, but also at the tribunal level such as the Company Law Board, National Green Tribunal, Appellate Tribunal for Electricity, etc. It has been a journey every minute of which I have enjoyed so far.

     

    How different is the scenario of Arbitration in India than abroad?

    The scenario of arbitration in India is very different from the scenario abroad. In India arbitrations are mostly adhoc whereas international arbitrations are almost always institutional and hence by and large more orderly. In India, arbitration suffers from a “Court system hangover” with frequent adjournments and very short sittings. In most international arbitration, a time is fixed and the parties mostly do not deviate from the timeline and deviating has its own cost implications.

    However, there are some arbitrators in India who ensure that arbitration before them is thoroughly professional and that the parties do not deviate from the timelines. These arbitrators also come well prepared and ask the right questions. I am hopeful that this trend will spread quickly and this scenario will improve.

    However for the scenario to improve, there are 2 other factors that need to be addressed- the culture of the arbitration bar and judicial interference in arbitrations. In so far as judicial interference is concerned in India, today arbitration proceedings are not only before the arbitrator . It is also about what happens before and after the proceeding before the arbitrator. There is a culture of excess judicial interference and as a lawyer unless you are aware of how to utilize the interference to your benefit, you are not in the position to offer the best possible solution to the client. However, there is some light at the end of the tunnel. I was fortunate to be part of an elite panel consisting of among others, Justice Rohiton Nariman, Mr. Arvind Datar, Mr Shishir Dholakia, Mr Darius Khambata etc constituted by Justice A.P. Shah, the Chairman of the Law Commission to deliberate upon the reforms to be made in arbitrations in India. After numerous deliberations, the Law commission has come with a very detailed report which has been submitted to the law minister. If the changes in this report are implemented, the judicial interference would decrease a great deal and the arbitration scenario in India would vastly improve.

    In addition, the culture of arbitration has to improve. Today, most lawyers look at arbitration as an evening activity. Unless this changes and we have full day arbitrations, arbitration is not going to become the effective “Out of Court” dispute resolution it was expected to become.

     

    What should law schools introduce to generate interest for arbitration among law students?

    There is already a fair amount of interest in arbitration among law students .The undergraduate curriculum at least at NALSAR is excellent and I don’t think anything further needs to be done. Perhaps a module on investment treaty arbitration would be helpful.

     

    What advice would you have for law students who wish to take up Arbitration as a career option and what kind of skills according to you suits best in this arena?

    Arbitration is a fantastic area to pursue. However, it is very demanding and since it often involves  a trial including cross examination of technical experts, attention to detail is most important. Unless, you are on top of the factual matrix, you will never be able to apply the law that you learn. It is easy to get into the tendency of glossing over facts but in an arbitration and in any trial that can prove fatal. Therefore my advice to law students who wish to take up arbitration would be to ensure that they pay enough attention to detail and this skill can be developed by paying enough importance to a factual matrix in a case when you read it. If you read a number of complicated judgments arising out of Section 34 and Section 37 of the Arbitration and Conciliation Act, you will broadly get an idea of the regular issues that come up in arbitrations.

    I would also say that you must be ready to think out of the box. For this you must first need to know the law inside out as you need to know the legal basis when you come up with a new argument. Once that is strong you can experiment on new proposition. I think the ability to think out of the box is a necessary skill one needs to have to become a successful arbitration practitioner and more generally a commercial law practitioner as very often you have faced with cases where your backs are against the wall. This is what makes commercial litigation so fascinating.

     

    What are the career options for a person who wants to pursue commercial arbitration for higher studies?

    A person, after his/her higher studies in commercial arbitration, can join a leading firm which does commercial arbitration work or at some point of time branch out and start his/ her own practice. The other allied areas are WTO dispute resolution- however this is highly specialized and it would be very difficult to be a general arbitration practitioner who also practices WTO law. The next allied field is investment treaty arbitration which is a fascinating area and picking up fast in India. Investment treaty arbitration would involve disputes between States and investors relating to breach of Bilateral Investment Treaties entered into between the home State of the investor and the State in which investment is made. In India, today there is tremendous scope for this area especially after the investment treaty arbitral tribunal’s decision in White industries v. Republic of India.

     

    Lastly, what would be your message for the readers who want to pursue career in arbitration in India?

    This is the right time to catch the bus- do not miss it.

  • Ashish Arun on being the founder of Offshore Research Partners, leading Expert Witness Profiler and entrepreneurship

    Ashish Arun on being the founder of Offshore Research Partners, leading Expert Witness Profiler and entrepreneurship

    Ashish Arun graduated from NUJS, Kolkata in 2010. As a student he started working on his entrepreneurial skills while starting up with Offshore Research Partners. He didn’t have to sit for placements as ORP had already taken off. Currently he is a Partner, Principal and Director at Expert Witness Profiling.

    In this interview we ask him about:

    • Starting up and managing multiple ventures
    • Journey of being an entrepreneur
    • Importance of a co-founder

     

    How would you like to introduce yourself to our readers? Please share your academic and professional background.

    I graduated from NUJS in 2010 and currently run Offshore Research Partners, a legal research and outsourcing firm based in Calcutta. I am also a partner in Expert Witness Profiler, LLC, which is a legal research product oriented company, based in the United States. Originally from Patna, I am based out of Kolkata at the moment.

     

    Tell us a bit about your childhood, your hometown and your pre-graduate life as well.

    The first few years of my life were spent in a small town of Bihar. When I was 5, my father moved to Patna, primarily to get me a better education. Many who know me from NUJS wouldn’t believe this, but I was actually pretty good at studies as a kid.

     

    The career of a lawyer in India is still just a backup option for most students. What motivated you to choose law as a career? Did your family and friends not suggest you to go for Engineering or Medical Studies?

    As a kid, I never wanted to be a lawyer. My father is a practicing lawyer at the Patna High Court and I had seen the struggles that a lawyer has to go through during the first few years and law as a career became a strict no. After getting a decent score in boards, the natural choice was either medical or engineering and I picked medical because I didn’t want to study math.

    As fate would have it, I couldn’t clear the medical entrance exams and ended up wasting a few years after my 12th. I still wasn’t thinking of law till my cousin (a successful practicing lawyer at the Supreme Court) convinced me that I should consider studying law. If not for him and the easy competition back in 2005, I wouldn’t have studied law.

     

    Kindly acquaint us with your college life and your aspirations in college. What activities were you involved in apart from the regular academic curriculum?

    College life was the best thing that ever happened to me. I made some of my best friends, right in the first few weeks of college and the next five years were beyond imagination! I was involved in student activities right from the first year and tried my hand at almost everything; even singing – something my friends still make fun of. I used to actively participate in organizing Outlawed, the NUJS cultural fest and would also volunteer for almost every other event that took place. Student representation was something that I really enjoyed and eventually served as the President of the SJA (the NUJS student body) in my fourth year. That was a great experience as it taught me many organizational and leadership skills which still help me in running my businesses.

     

    What kind of internships did you do while you were a student? Are there remarkable experiences during your internships that shaped your career choices later?

    Like most law students, I was clueless about what I wanted to do after law school. So I tried all kinds of internships. Some of the memorable ones were from the first year when we actually spent days sitting on Jantar Mantar with the team of Justice for Bhopal, helping them with research and whatever little legal help we could offer as first year law students. Another great stint was at the offices of Siddharth Luthra, who personally taught us the basics of legal research. That internship made me understand how the right approach to research can save a lot of time and help you develop a clear understanding of the existing legal position on any issue; something that helps me today as well in serving our clients.

     

    How did you fare in your academics at NUJS? How was the academic pressure? Do you believe that excellent CGPA is the key to all success?

    If you make CGPA the benchmark, I didn’t do very well at NUJS. A good CGPA shows you are hardworking and dedicated to what is needed even if you don’t really like it. A not-so-good CGPA, on the other hand, doesn’t establish that you are good for nothing. I don’t think most of us felt any academic pressure. I may be wrong but the semesters used to be pretty easy going and everyone studied just a few days before the exams. Obviously, there were exceptions but not many.

     

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    You started a business while you were at NUJS related to the LPO industry. Tell us the background story a bit.

    Quite a few of us used to do research for Daubert Tracker, an American legal database, to earn some extra pocket money. I had managed a few third party research projects for them in my third year and realized that there was potential in academic and commercial legal research outsourcing. In March 2009, I was helping them conceptualize a new research product and that is when I realized that I wanted to work in the area of legal research and publication. It was a good opportunity as they were willing to outsource all their research operations to me if I could set up a team of lawyers in India. One thing led to another and by the time we started the Calcutta office in December 2009; we already had 3 clients sending us work on a regular basis.

     

    A big stumbling block for student entrepreneurs is arranging capital for the business. How did you handle this? How did you find your initial team for the business?

    Capital requirements are different for product and services related companies. Since mine was the latter, we needed very little capital to get started – just enough to rent a space with 2-3 computers, a working internet connection and some basic furniture.

    The initial team came from friends and their references. That is something I would change if I had to do it again, as friends seldom make great co-workers.

     

    Did you look for a co-founder? Is this important to start a business?

    Since I started ORP after working as a researcher for Daubert Tracker for a few years, Myles Levin (Daubert Tracker’s owner) was an automatic choice for a co-founder. He funded the start-up expenses and I had been working with him for several years to feel comfortable about it.

    Having said that, I am not a huge believer in the “must-find-a-co-founder” theory. Many people start businesses with friends without truly understanding what the other person is really bringing to the table. No matter who your co-founder is, it is really important to decide the expectations and responsibilities of each person before you decide to sail together.

     

    What did you do after your graduation? Were you looking for placements at all?

    One big reason to go ahead with ORP with six months of law school left was placement options. I wanted to give six months to ORP which would have given me a fair idea if it was going to work or not. If not, sitting for placements was always an option. Thankfully, it worked fine and I didn’t have to go look for a job.

     

    Can you tell us something about the Expert Witness Profiler and Offshore Research Partners as your businesses and how did you conceive the idea for these business ventures?

    Expert Witness Profiler (EWP) was a company that was our (ORP’s) client. When one of the founders of EWP decided to leave to focus on his original business, I was presented with an opportunity to co-own the company. We were already handling their operations, from research to delivery and even post-delivery customer support – so it seemed like a good option to pick a stake and co-own the company and I went for it. It was one of the best decisions I made as the business has been growing and it is always more rewarding to be a co-owner than a vendor.

     

    You won the Star Youth Achiever Award for the Year 2010-11. Tell us something about this. How does it feel to reach these heights at such an early stage in career? And how has your journey as an entrepreneur been so far?

    Yes, the recognition and the awards came knocking very soon – but they are a mere reaffirmation of the fact that you are moving in the right direction and doing the right things. If anything, it motivated me to work harder and make sure that the growth momentum is maintained and the companies keep outperforming themselves on a regular basis.

    My journey as an entrepreneur has been like most others, I believe – I have seen good times as well as bad. Business slowdowns and a sudden upsurge in the order books have both happened and we have learned as a team, every day, how to tackle problems better and keep moving forward.

     

    How difficult would you say the first few years were of your own business? Tell us about the highs and lows.

    ORP has been profitable since the very first month – so, thankfully, we never had any financial issues. Most of the problems that we have had are what I would call a “good-quality-problem”. For example, we found ourselves overwhelmed with work and several of us would spend more than 24 hours in the office on certain days. This may sound normal to someone working in a law firm but it doesn’t really happen in the outsourcing. We have seen slowdowns and plateaued growth for a few months here and there – something that very few businesses can avoid, but other than that, it has been a pretty smooth ride till now.

     

    Did you at any point of time doubt your career choice of being an entrepreneur? If yes, how did you cope up with that?

    Never. I know it is easier to say this now with 20-20 hindsight, but I am thankful that I never really doubted it as a career choice.

     

    How do you think knowing law benefits an entrepreneur? What are the prime hurdles that a non-lawyer entrepreneur is likely to come across?

    Everyone needs to know the law – it has its own benefits and entrepreneurs are no different. However, there is a huge difference in knowing the law and being a lawyer. Because of being a lawyer, I could draft my own Agreements and I understood the legal as well as the commercial aspects of it. Or, I could incorporate a company without using another lawyer to draft my AoAs and MoAs. But then, an entrepreneur can always seek legal advice for these issues. I do not believe that a non-lawyer entrepreneur would face any specific difficulties or hurdles just because he is not a lawyer.

     

    You are a businessman more than a lawyer now. Do you feel that doing a business related course like MBA would have been better than studying law?

    Most of the projects and businesses that I have undertaken till now and plan to take up in the future are related to law. And I would not have been able to do any of this if I didn’t study law. An MBA may have helped but not as much as studying law did.

     

    Would you like to pursue higher study some day? Why or why not?

    Absolutely – but just to be able to go back to campus as a student! There is nothing better than that.

     

    Do you take interns? If yes, what qualifies one for an internship at Offshore Research Partners and how should one apply for the same?

    We do take interns and the only real qualification is that you need to be a law student. We have an internship application form on our Careers page (www.orp-india.com/careers) and one can apply using that.

    Interns are selected based on the cover letter, the accuracy and attention to detail in their CVs and a little weight is given to the year in which the student is – the higher, the better.

     

    Many law students consider working at an LPO to be an inferior choice. Why is this? What are your thoughts on the same?

    The industry is still new and the general perception is that you do not get to do any cutting edge work – the work can be mundane and repetitive. However, nothing can be farther than the truth. Yes, a lot of work that LPOs do is repetitive but if you are bright, you can move up the chain quickly and participate in the decision making process – develop new solutions, work with clients directly and do things in a few years that would take you decades in a law firm. Expert Witness Profiler prepares background reports for attorneys not only because it is cheaper to use us (ORP does all the research), but also because many attorneys do not have the same resources or the research skills that our lawyers have developed through the years.

     

    Lastly, what would be your message to law students and young lawyers who want to pursue entrepreneurship?

    Just because one thinks that an idea is great and has a lot of potential should not be the only factor in deciding whether you want to go ahead with something. Most startups fail because there is no demand for the products or services they create. Therefore, it is really important to assess the market and make sure that you are either fulfilling a need that already exists or you would be able to educate your target market and create a need for your product or service.

     

  • Animesh Sinha, Partner, Animesh Sinha and Partners, on independent practice, mooting, and his experience

    Animesh Sinha, Partner, Animesh Sinha and Partners, on independent practice, mooting, and his experience

    Animesh Sinha graduated from Amity Law School, Delhi, in 2008. He started practicing right after graduating from law school. Currently he has his own team at Animesh Sinha and Partners for the last two and a half years. In this interview, we asked him about:

    • His mooting experiences in his law school days
    • His experiences as a founder of a law firm
    • Internship experiences and their value in a law student’s career.

     

    Tell us a little bit about your childhood and your background.

    I have been practising law since 2008 after graduating from Amity Law School, Delhi. I started my career with Karanjawala & Co.. After that I went independent and founded Accendo Law Partners. In 2011 I joined Advani & Co as an equity partner. Presently I have my own team at Animesh Sinha & Partners for the last two and a half years.

    My father is in a transferable job and I finished my schooling over many schools. I was a good student throughout. Thanks to the efforts of my family consistent good grades allowed me to jump a batch ahead of my batchmates. I was heavily inclined towards extracurricular activities and actively participated in several international and national level debate competitions, science fests and sports events. I was also the president of many clubs and my house contingent in school. I am also very proudly a Rashtrapati Scout. I come from a normal middle-class family and my childhood included the ordinary activities of cricket, vacations, parental push for excellence and other such activities.

     

    What prompted you to take up law as a career?

    I am a first-generation lawyer. It is difficult to identify what prompted me to choose law as a career. I was headed towards engineering but was not too excited about it. I believe my father gauged that and considering my background in debating he decided that I write for some law schools. By the time this decision was taken it was too late and I could only apply for GGSIPU (to which Amity Law School is affiliated) and NLS, Bangalore. Even then my primary attention and preparation was for the engineering entrance exams. When the results were out my father suggested I take up law instead. I guess it was my destiny.

     

    As a student were you only focused on academics?

    I was good at academics. But academics did not constitute more than a quarter of my time at law school. While I continued to get good scores I grew disillusioned with the system of evaluation at the University. I would like to thank my classmates Ankit Khushu and Bikram Chaudhury for ensuring that I did not let my grades slip.

    I spent a lot of time at law school mooting and debating. But what I enjoyed the most was the opportunity to read law without any deadlines and purpose. I spent a lot of time in law school reading law without any immediate objective. This allowed me to read more and develop a good grasp of first principles. I did not realise the benefit then but I deeply cherish it today.

     

    What extra-curricular activities did you take part in that helped you shape up your career?

    My grounding in extracurricular activities from school automatically prompted me to continue with extracurricular activities in law school as well. I was an active debater and participated in debates through most of law school. A major chunk of my time at law school was consumed with moot court related activities. I participated in several moot court competitions including Philip C. Jessup, Manfred Lachs, Commonwealth and Heanry Dunant. The experiences and the recognition that moots brought played an important role in developing the lawyer that I am today. These experiences are not limited to legal skills alone but it taught me life lessons on teamwork and human behaviour. Even today I stay in touch with moot courts judging competitions across the country, drafting moot court problems and generally interacting with moot court teams.

    I do not believe excellent CGPA is the key to ALL success but I believe it is important to respect any evaluation system as it ensures you do not slacken.

     

    What is your mantra for success in academics?

    (Animesh has received the best student award at Amity Law School, Delhi for two consecutive years.)

    I do not think it is possible to cast any mantra in a mould. It may sound cliched but then the key components for success in academics according to me are passion for the subject, hard work, diligence and particularly in these times of digital distractions good time management skills.

     

    What were your areas of interest during your graduation?

    In law school I just fell in love with some subjects. Contract law was the first legal paper I studied. I was so excited that I coaxed my father to purchase the practitioner’s commentary by Mulla. Till today it is one of the most prized possessions in my library. Almost all the moot courts that I participated in were on public international law. Naturally it became my favourite subject. I even chose international law on outer space as the topic for my dissertation. I still crave to study public international law. However it has become difficult with court practise. Now I look forward to invitations to judge moot court competitions on public international law. It is a great stress buster.

    To develop expertise and knowledge in any area one must read voraciously and take some time out to analyse the law and visualise how it applies to practical situations. It is important to provide a context to what you read.

     

    How did you manage to excel in both studies and mooting which seem to eat into each other’s time?

    (Animesh has received several prizes and accolades in international moot court competitions including Manfred Lachs, Commonwealth and Philip C. Jessup.)

    I do not think they eat into each other’s time. If you plan well there is enough time for both and other activities. I think what helped me most was prior preparation. The memorial submissions for the Commonwealth Moot Court Competition coincided with examinations. We could foresee this and we studied for the examinations in advance. I would also have to credit my friends in law school for helping us out in such times of conflict. But what is most important is that there must be a push to excel. I believe if you have the will to do it you will make things work.

     

    What do you look for in a good mooter?

    (Animesh recently drafted as well as judged a recently held National Moot Court Competition.)

    Lots of things. It will be difficult to exhaustively enlist all of them here. What I like most are well prepared mooters. I believe the difference between a good mooter and a mooter who wins is prior preparation. A winning mooter will always imagine and rehearse for different situations from beforehand. This prior preparation alone can help a mooter present accurate answers, maintain calm, be aware of material at hand and be better equipped to deal with different kind of judges; amongst dealing with other trials and tribulations faced by mooters.

    I have recently written a chapter for a book on moot court which is due to be published by end of this year. It may be helpful if mooters are looking for an exhaustive answer to this question.

     

    How did you muster the courage of starting independent practice at 24?

    I confronted myself and reconciled with the fact that it is good to have jitters. I do not think they completely go away. And I believe the jitters keep lawyers on their toes. So it is a good thing and does not require to be fought.

    I must concede that my background in mooting and debating helped me a great deal. Mooting taught me the importance of prior and in-depth preparation. It is also important for me to acknowledge what I learnt at Karanjawala & Co. While at Karanjawala & Co I got invaluable experience of observing some of the finest senior advocates at the bar. There was just so much to learn.

     

    Tell us about your experiences of starting your own firm.

    My first endeavour to start a law firm was at Accendo Law Partners. We eventually merged Accendo Law Partners with Advani & Co. I started Animesh Sinha and Partners in 2012.

    It is an exhilarating experience setting up your own firm. It brings with it several challenges. Infrastructure of the office needs to be developed; you need to be able to hire, retain and pay for lawyers and staff; manage the administration; build and maintain clientele; and above all deliver good quality work. For those wanting to set up their own firm I would like to share some key points. First of all, be sure why you have decided to set up your own firm. The commitment of having your own firm has to survive through tough times and temptations. Secondly, be patient for things to develop. Infrastructure, resources, lawyers, clientele and ability to run your own firm comes over time and with experience. Thirdly, be sure of what kind of services your firm would deliver. This is particularly difficult for young lawyers who are still finding their grounding. For law firms with young teams the burden to work hard is very high and it is very important to have preset goals and a vision for the firm. I would like to encourage students to think ambitiously and develop and sustain the energy and ability to realise their ambitions.

     

    What does a day at work look like for you?

    ASP (Animesh Sinha & Partners) is a multidisciplinary law firm. We have considerable experience in dispute resolution, contract preparation and corporate advisory. We particularly specialise in insurance and construction. Our network of clients includes several public sector undertakings, corporate houses, small and medium enterprises and individual litigants. We are a young team of lawyers who are enjoying the process of finding a place in the profession.

    A day at work entails attending court and arbitration proceedings and working on different assignments once in office. Running an office demands time for business development and administrative work – sometimes it is drudgery, sometimes exciting.  We are very passionate about law and often engage ourselves in academic activities at conferences, law school events and executive training programs.

    I would say being a founding partner of a law firm is quite interesting. It can be challenging and stressful at times and different factors may contribute towards it. To identify some- its challenging to sustain work quality; take care of the aspirations of your team; and maintain probity and clear communication with clients. It provides immense opportunity for learning varied things. There is so much more to law than the law itself.

    I would like to believe I am maintaining a good work-life balance. Having said that I often have family and friends complain that I am stuck at work. Law as a profession consumes a lot of time. It is important to enjoy it. It is also crucially important to periodically reward oneself with family time, hobbies and fun. I always advise lawyers younger than me to maintain timesheets. It is a good tool to assess work input and it also helps maintain a good work-life balance.

     

    How is the work culture at ASP?

    It is natural to commit mistakes. We all do. Fresh graduates often find themselves at the wrong end of the stick for mistakes which seem downright silly and obvious. A lot of this happens because of poor instructions from seniors or because it is the first time a fresh graduate works on a particular kind of assignment. We believe in careful review and revision before we send out any work to the client. It becomes particularly challenging when the time deadlines are stiff. It is important to be patient and mutually complement each other’s strengths and weaknesses. It certainly does not help to browbeat or yell at anyone.

     

    How is internship helpful for a law student?

    Internships do help tremendously. My belief is more in favour of interns seeking long-term assignments with fewer offices rather than seeking many short-term assignments with different law offices. This is because long-term assignments allow an intern to learn more, leave a deeper impact and increase one’s chances of being absorbed.

    Internships provide invaluable experience regarding several aspects of working in an office including working on real legal assignments, office mannerisms, time discipline et cetera. With every year of added legal knowledge internships provide a scale to judge oneself on one’s ability to analyse and apply the learnt legal knowledge on real-life assignments.

     

    Does ASP take interns?

    At the moment we are not taking interns. However we strongly believe in internship programs. I have personally been in charge of internship programs at all the offices I have worked previously. We hope to continue our engagement with interns by resuming the internship program shortly.

     

    What would be your message to law students who dream of having their own law firm one day?

    It is very important to continue to dream. Meet your dreams with hard work and dedication. This may sound clichéd but then there are no shortcuts. What is important is to deliver credible and qualitative legal services and not just start an office. Today not every graduate is getting absorbed at law offices of their choice. Consequently, a lot of them claim to be independent. I believe to be able to have a firm of your own it is important to first learn how to work on assignments and deliver credible and qualitative output. Building an office of your own is not about independence of time and independence from command – on the contrary you may find yourself crunched for time trying to bring in work as well as delivering it. It is therefore very important to have a good grounding in the profession first. My message would be to work hard, follow your dreams and continue to work hard and learn for the sake of your dreams.