Super Lawyer

Category: Interviews

  • Swapna Sundar, CEO, IP DOME, on Intellectual Property Rights Law, and starting her own firm

    Swapna Sundar, CEO, IP DOME, on Intellectual Property Rights Law, and starting her own firm

    Swapna graduated from Tamil Nadu Doctor Ambedkar Law University, in 2000. She then went on to pursue her Masters from Brussels School of International Studies, University of Kent, in 2002. She is presently the Principal strategist and CEO at IP DOME – IP Strategy Advisors. She co-founded the company with partner, Mr. Raghavendra Ravi, a CEO coach, consultant and expert at operations and supply chain. She has also been teaching European and US patent law at the NALSAR PG diploma course on Patent Laws, in addition to giving guest lectures at different institutions, including the Asian College of Journalism (ACJ), Symbiosis Law School, Vellore Institute of Technology (VIT), IIT-M and Anna University. She also sits on the IP Advisory Committee of the Tamil Nadu Technology Development and Promotion Centre (TNTDPC), an autonomous not-for-profit society of the Government of Tamil Nadu and Confederation of Indian Industry (CII). The TNTDPC helps formulate policies to guide use and protection of IPR in Tamil Nadu.

    In this interview we speak to her about:

    • Starting her own company
    • Her experience in IPR
    • Her teaching experience

    Can you tell our readers about your firm?

    At IP DOME, we work with corporates, MSMEs, research institutions and individual inventors to take their inventions and creations of the mind – books, illustrations, musical works – to the market. We are a multi-disciplinary team, with Hariprasad – a hardware engineer heading operations, Dhanya – a biotechnologist heading analysis, Karthick handling Business Administration, and Prashant – an electronics engineer spearheading market expansion. In addition to being an excellent supply chain expert, Mr. Raghavendra Ravi is a formidable chemist with more than a cursory interest in perfumes and oil. Clients get to meet experts from their area of interest even at the first meeting, besides meeting me or other lawyers at the firm.  Therefore, my work at IP DOME is extremely interesting and I look forward to rewarding discussions and new challenges every day. In the past ten years, we have also learnt how to leverage the opportunities afforded by the bustling Indian market. I am happy to say that our Toolkit for the UK IP Office ‘The IP Smart Approach to Doing Business in India’ has earned us a place as strategic partners of the UK Institute of Exporters’ Doing Business in India Guide.

     

    What was it that got you interested in the legal field? Do you come from a family of lawyers?

    No, I don’t come from a family of lawyers. My father was a Lieutenant Colonel in the Army. My uncle was a respected public prosecutor at Vellore, but by the time I became a lawyer, he was already semi-retired. I think my interest in law came from my desire to work with people, and I found the logical process of thought required to build arguments fascinating. I do research and teach credit courses on technology law, and then interface between technology and rights.

     

    Did you participate in extracurricular activities such as moots, debates, etc. in law school?

    I did participate in a couple of moots while at the Madras Law College, but I did not find it very exciting. I have participated in debates while at the Madras Christian College, where I pursued my Bachelor’s degree. I started working in a legal firm from my first year after college hours. I found that very rewarding. I had the opportunity to support a protest by farmers opposing shrimp cultivation, which was destroying the land through inundation of sea water. My task as a (trainee) lawyer was to ensure that the protestors – mostly women and children – were not harmed. Eventually, they were taken to a school where they were made to wait till remand. I took the opportunity to ensure they got water and food, and also taught them a preliminary class on Article 21. Interestingly, the arresting policemen participated avidly in the discussions, pointing out that their human rights were being violated by long hours of ‘bandobast’ duty and unpaid overtime!

    Later, when I was studying for my ML in International Law with International Relations, I worked, as a paralegal, with Monsieur Nicolas Angelet, a lawyer specialising in refugee rights. The cross-cultural work provided me with insights into European governance models, history and notions of nationhood, that I may otherwise not have learnt.

     

    What was your first job after law school? 

    My first job was that of a junior lawyer, in the very firm where I had interned. I suppose they liked my work and found me competent.

     

    Can you tell us about being a teaching assistant at the University of Kent where you deliver lectures on British constitutional law and British Human Rights law?

    I studied for my ML at the Brussels School of International Studies (BSIS), which is the European School of the University of Kent at Canterbury. My professor Dr. Wade Mansell, liked my papers on International Relations, where I had explored constitutionalism and colonialism, and how many of the most volatile regions of the earth had been distressed colonies. My papers on the TRIPs agreement were also appreciated. The University of Kent offered me a seat for Ph.D. and a teaching assistantship to help pay the tuition.

    Constitutional law in the books, and Constitutional law on the streets, or in the courts mean different things to different people. UK has no written Constitution; it is derived from many different sources. My background as a lawyer, and my interest in Constitutional law were advantages, since they were looking for someone with practical experience. The British Human Rights Act had been promulgated only in 1998, and not many people were familiar with it. I had an interesting experience giving a lecture on the Act to the Metropolitan Transport Police. They subsequently wrote a very good feedback about my lecture.

     

    What got you interested in the field of intellectual property?

    Mr. Kamath of Kamath & Kamath strongly recommended that I should register as a Patent attorney and I thank him for that. A patent agent drafts and files the patent application on behalf of the inventor, or the applicant. The role of the patent agent is to capture the invention in its technological brilliance, and fence it with appropriate legal mechanisms. The claims are the most important part of the patent application, although it forms, in general, about 10-15% of the content of the application. Today, my work is largely strategic. I work with our patent engineers and illustrators to communicate a strategic agenda to the application being filed, bringing to it market insights, technology trends and international strategy.

    My exposure to International Economic Law and the macro-economic scene relating to technological advancement, market share, banking and the global development agenda were crucial factors in driving my attention and interest towards IPR. The WIPO course on IP strategy that strengthened my understanding of the connections between Intellectual Property resources, competitive advantage and sustainable growth. It is very interesting to keep track of changes at local and global levels in areas of economics and market, and the volatility keeps us on our toes.

     

    What caused you to leave teaching and take up a job at a law firm?

    It was always my intention to work. Giving lectures in new and emerging areas is interesting, but I don’t have to grade papers, or guide research. I admire the dedication of law professors, who not only prepare interesting lectures for students, grade papers, and advise on reports, they also find time for their own research and publications, while supporting the institution. I don’t think I could have done it.

     

    You are currently the CEO of IP Dome Strategy Advisors. What is the nature of your work? 

    As CEO, my job is more administrative than legal. I put out the fires, manage the resources, oversee the operations (without stepping on the toes of competent colleagues), and act as a point of communication between the directors and corporate operations. As a small organisation IP DOME also depends (largely) on me to provide brand visibility, develop markets, reach out to senior associates in India and overseas, and provide expansion plans. As we look to expand into Singapore and USA in the near future, I am also expected to drive the project.

    India is a net importer of technology. I don’t see this changing in the next decade or two. The role of the IP lawyer in India will not remain focused on inventors and research institutions. The IP lawyer or IP firm will have to evolve into market specific entities with wide ranging capabilities, including negotiation, contract management, statistical modelling, data analysis and data management.

     

    What advice would you give those of our readers who want to pursue a career in the filed of intellectual property?

    It is interesting to note that while young lawyers are interested in IPR, not many are interested in science and technology, or mathematics. I suppose that is why they became lawyers in the first place! We are always looking for whip smart lawyers who are also good in scientific disciplines. Going forward, I foresee a good demand for lawyers with knowledge of science and market or economics and statistics. As the field evolves in India, it would be important to keep track of the changes in IP law and IP regimes across the globe.

    Engineers talk differently from lawyers; biotechnologists and medical professionals use jargon that is incomprehensible to us. Data analysts have a different perspective on an course which we are contemplating. You would be benefited if you learn how to work with people from different scientific disciplines. When contributing your skills or ideas to people from other domains, it helps to be familiar with the jargon or terminology of their discipline. I would also advise learning to read and interpret graphs, trend charts and data models.

     

    What is your opinion about the importance or necessity of higher education?

    ML at BSIS provided me with an understanding of the market as a powerful agency of amorphous actors, which is nevertheless organised and well-structured. This perspective lends me the ability to identify and re-orient tactically to economic transitions. Higher education, according to me, should enhance competency or skills in a chosen area of work or interest. A lawyer who studies for Master’s with basic knowledge of law supplemented with practical experience, stands to gain the ability to define her role more finely, and align herself with market requirements. Higher education must either drive better understanding of the domain of operations, or help the lawyer to reach professional goals. Choose wisely, both on the basis of what you want to study, and where to study.

     

    You are a part of the Ethics committees of various institutions. What does this position entail and what kind of matters do you have to deal with?

    I am a member (legal) of the Institutional Human Ethics Committee of the National Institute of Epidemiology, an ICMR body, and a member (legal) of the Ethics Committees of IIT-M, SRM Medical College and Hospital, the National Institute of Siddha and the SRM Institute of Medical Sciences. An ethics committee is an independent body consisting of healthcare professionals and non-medical members, whose responsibility is to protect the rights, safety and wellbeing of human subjects involved in a clinical trial and to provide public assurance of that protection. As member (legal) I keep track of whether the research protocol ensures that the rights of the patients are not violated; at the same time, I also see that the rights of the researcher to conduct research on human participants is not unreasonably curtailed. The other members of the committees look to the lawyers on the committee to ensure that laws are not violated, and that institutions, researchers, contract research organisations and sponsors of trials do not avoid their obligations. We study and comment on the trial protocol, suitability of investigators, adequacy of facilities, significance of number of participants, compensation, consent and waivers, reporting on adverse events and termination of trials.

     

    What are the measure we should be taking to empower women further?

    In general, we can empower women by promoting gender balance in recruitment and promotions, and by driving a culture of diversity. In India, this includes people from different communities, as well as different states. It is important to realise that if Indian companies fail to recruit and retain talented women, they will only exacerbate the acute shortage of competent personnel. It is necessary to support women by encouraging conversations around gender equity and professional goals in a co-working situation. Women feel valued when their self-assessment of technical competencies, and professional relationships meet and align with the organisation’s assessment of them. An organisation that values its women, promotes a culture that encourages openness, accessibility, collaboration and community, allowing women to contribute with greater confidence. Empowerment also means promoting women to positions of leadership and decision-making.

    At IP DOME, we strive to empower all team members by encouraging a focus on health and wellness, both mentally and physically. We aim to create a workspace and culture that empowers and inspires members to achieve professional excellence. Whether men or women, we encourage team members to ‘be yourself’. This promotes a transparent and balanced company culture. Having a family should not deter either men or women from pursuing a fulfilling career; this means we are prepared to enable flexibility in work schedules and help with education expenses. As a woman CEO, I tell women colleagues to develop a stronger political self, questioning the straitjackets that society may insist on. They should be able to think and act as competent professionals and leaders.

     

    Do you think law school prepares students for real world challenges?

    The purpose of law schools is to prepare students to pass the Bar Exam and to be responsible and ethical members of the legal fraternity. But I would not say that they are sufficiently prepared for a successful career in law, when they graduate. While a graduate from a good school may meet the knowledge and competency criteria, other crucial skills will have to be learnt from school activities that students participate in, or the internships they take up. Important skills include case management, communications, non-electronic research, drafting, analysis of law and facts, strategies for resolution, and a whole host of client management issues including evaluating potential client engagement, maintaining client trust, arriving at budget and terminating client relationship. In addition, account management, interpersonal skills and working collaboratively – challenges in working any industry, will also have to be learnt by the new graduate.  

    I believe that graduates who allocate sufficient time to planning their careers, and understanding their capacities and competencies stand a good chance of succeeding in their chosen profession. The planning should be a combination of vision and intense, detailed planning. There is one quality that appears to differentiate a successful lawyer from the rest – the ability to be tactically flexible in achieving a strategic goal!

     

    What are the challenges you have faced in building your career as it stands today? 

    IP DOME entered the market with a clear strategy to promote IP Strategy in India. India’s unique ecosystem – high growth coupled with infrastructural inefficiencies and delays in bureaucracy and judiciary, and the large cost of controlling infringement by many small and micro-unites – call for special measures and strategies. In the last 10 years, we have earned a reputation for strategic IP services. In fact, the UK IP Office commissioned us to write a Toolkit: IP Smart approach to doing business in India, which is available for free download on our website, which has received good feedback.

    The challenges have been in terms of maintaining focus on our core expertise, developing and nurturing a strong network and attracting top talent. Yet another challenge is enabling and encouraging visibility and recognition for our subject matter experts, as many fora recognise only me as a resource person! Brand building requires considerable investment in terms of time and resources from the company as well as the team members, and as we provide highly specialised services, we also invest in education and awareness campaigns in colleges, schools, SME and entrepreneurship development institutes, self-help groups and industry bodies. The experience has taught me that deriving value from IP in India requires tactical planning and strategic deployment of resources from the time of conception of an idea to the launching of it in the market.

     

    How do you maintain a work- life balance?

    Personally, my method is to apply my mind to many different projects simultaneously; my second book on the Marina pro-Jallikattu Protest – Occupy Marina! will be released in September. I believe that in a balanced life, we must accord equal priority to family, career and other interests that make us who we are. There are a few well-recognised means of ensuring a good work-life balance for the team. The following have worked well for us:

    1. We know we are running a marathon, not a sprint. Endurance as a team is more important than a short burst of speed resulting in burn outs, frustration and high stress levels.
    2. We know we are human, and have limitations. Sleep deprivation, high stress levels, no time to decompress, irregular hours – all these result in less than optimum health. We prefer productive hours to long hours.
    3. Delegation and redistribution. In a sense, we communicate that no one team member is indispensable. This helps us to let people off to take care of family or health matters. When work is distributed evenly, the team feels less burdened, and friendlier towards each other.
    4. Take the help of an organisational consultant. Our organisational consultants, Dr. T.T. Srinath and his colleague, Mr. Sadasivan, encourage a balanced outlook to life, and ensure that we are constantly aware of our current state of stress as individuals, and as members of a team.

     

    What advice do you have for our readers who are primarily college students?

    OK, here goes: Don’t watch TV. There are other ways to keep yourself informed, and a million things happening around you that will provide you with meaningful entertainment, future visions, opportunities and choices. Don’t get hooked to social media. You will only keep hearing what you like; social media channels, use filters to amplify what you respond to, and filter out what you don’t like. Keep track of trends, but don’t be too quick to specialise. If you have interests in areas like science or fine arts, now is the time to explore. After ensuring good grades, spend more time building relationships. Great marks won’t help you in practice, friends and seniors will. Your free time would be excellently spent if you read a few books, among them, 1984 (George Orwell), The Trial (Franz Kafka), The Social Contract (Jean-Jacques Rousseau), The Handmaid’s Tale (Margaret Atwood), History Will Absolve Me (Fidel Castro), My Name is Red (Orhan Pamuk), Serious Men (Manu Joseph), India after Gandhi (Ramachandra Guha), Clarence Darrow for the Defence (Irving Stone), Midnight’s Children (Salman Rushdie) and One Hundred Years of Solitude (Gabriel Garcia Marquez) – in no particular order.

     

  • Prasanth V.G., Partner, J. Sagar Associates, on his time in NUJS, and his litigation experience

    Prasanth V.G., Partner, J. Sagar Associates, on his time in NUJS, and his litigation experience

    Prasanth V.G. graduated from WBNUJS, Kolkata in 2005 and thereafter joined Delhi office of Paras Kuhad and Associates. He is currently a Partner at J. Sagar Associates, Bangalore. He primarily specialises in dispute resolution and has an experience for twelve years. He has been handling matters relating to Company Contracts, Specific Relief, Intellectual Property, Banking, Infrastructure, Energy, Consumer Protection, Infrastructure and Arbitration. He has a vast experience in the drafting of pleadings, applications and evidence briefing for several counsels in numerous matters, and has also done many arguments including both final and interim arguments at various fora.  

    . In this interview he talks to us about:

    • His law school life at WBNJUS, Kolkata 
    • His experience of a litigation lawyer at a firm
    • The essentials of a good commercial litigation lawyer

    Given that most of our readers are law students and young lawyers, how will you introduce yourself to them? 

    I will not shamelessly claim that I am a “Super Lawyer”, but I am certainly one who constantly dreams of being a “Super Lawyer” whom society looks up to. I am a Partner at the Bangalore office of J. Sagar Associates and my area of work is dispute resolution.  I graduated from the first batch of NUJS, Kolkata in 2005 and started my career at the Delhi office of Paras Kuhad and Associates in 2005. In 2010 I shifted to Bangalore and worked for a short period of ten months at KLaw. In April 2011 I joined JSA Bangalore and I have been here since then. My father’s father and my mother’s great grandfather were lawyers, but both of them had passed away much before I was born and therefore I cannot say that I am from a family of lawyers.

     

    How was your experience at NUJS?

    To be frank, I had never before come across in my life an ambiance as fiercely competitive as was present at NUJS. The first batch of NUJS was a unique pack of some of the most gifted brains and talents. The levels of competition we had were naturally very intense. The fact that we were guided by a personality as towering as Dr. Madhava Menon, who had the unique ability to inspire his students to always dream high and strive, was the most remarkable feature of our NUJS life. He would constantly motivate all of us to very deeply believe that anything less than excellence is self-derogatory. I feel truly blessed to have studied law as a part of the first batch of NUJS, which had tremendous levels of ambition and zeal and was constantly very high on energy and drive.

    However, one tough question that my senior partner recently asked me was whether in the last twelve years anyone from our batch has really become a legend for his or her age. I found it very difficult to answer. Everyone is working at decent designations to keep their pride happy and earning decently to keep their families happy, but whether that is all the NUJS dream was, is a soul-searching question. Hopefully, I will have a clearer and happier answer after the next twelve to fifteen years. One may take until the age of 35 to settle down, but if he does not have the big break between 35 years and 50 years, one may rather reconcile that it was all for the making of just another office-goer. The hair has already started the tendency of greying here and there.

     

    What were your areas of interest in law school?

    Amongst the various academic subjects, I had maximum interest in Constitutional and administrative laws. I also deeply enjoyed the laws of contract, specific relief, property, statutory interpretation, etc. Preparations for and participation in both internal and external moot courts was considered to be a very important exercise by our whole batch. I also had my share of regular mooting experiences in those five years, including representing India at the Stetson moot court at Florida. Exploring and re-exploring the city of Calcutta on every Wednesday, which used to be the weekly holiday, was one of the most joyous part of our life. NUJS life was the first phase in my life which introduced me to a truly national ambiance. It was a remarkable experience getting to know and making friends with the peer coming from various different cultures and sensibilities across the country. All these were matters of great excitement at the impressionable age.

     

    Can you recall a few interesting instances in your litigation career?

    I will first answer the question on preparation. More important than how I routinely prepare, is how I think one ought to prepare. I am therefore making a general analysis and not any self-proclamation. One message I learnt from the great masters I had the occasion to meet or work with, is that every court appearance, however small or big, must be treated as a break by a litigation lawyer. It always helps to prepare for a matter beyond your brief for any given day’s appearance. Trying to put a lot more effort into every matter than what may be immediately required to attend to it, will over a period of time, make you very resourceful.

    While in my initial days at PKA Delhi, I was given a lot of exposure in DRT and DRAT matters. One set of matters that Mr. Kuhad made me in charge of was a series of cases filed by various banks and financial institutions against a pharmaceutical company, which was our client. I still remember the strenuous manner in which I went about labouring to put together the written statements and various interim applications on behalf of the company, trying to bring out some defence or the other in each matter, which otherwise appeared to be very open and shut against our client. It was a lot of learning on the job which gave the conviction that no matter can be given up as defenseless, if you are willing to go into the depths of documents and do some creative work at linking or de-linking ideas and points.

    Another Delhi matter which stands out in memory is an international arbitration which went on for about five years, in which we were representing an American company. What makes it memorable is the long days and nights spent reading through, deciphering and connecting thousands of pages of disorderly papers which used to come in heavy cartons from Dallas. There were several note books full of hand-written notes which I made while trying to organize the defences in the matter, trying to frame questions for cross examination, etc. We eventually lost the matter, but it was a rewarding experience for one’s faculties to go through the grill it demanded at a very early stage of career.

    Another interesting memory is that of a partition suit before the Delhi High Court. We were representing the Plaintiffs. We briefed Mr. Arun Jaitley for the first hearing and he got us an ex-parte order of appointment of a local commissioner to inspect and make an inventory of extremely valuable family heirloom items including gold, silver, diamonds, ruby, paintings, carpets etc., which according to our side, had been hidden by the Defendants inside the family house in Kolkata. I flew along with the local commissioner to Kolkata with the order and we went to the concerned premises the next morning along with the local police. The events which took place at the premises were nothing less than dramatic. After a lot of initial resistance and thereafter reluctant cooperation, the Defendants insisted that there was no express order to forcefully open the locked safes and almirahs. So I flew back to Delhi that evening while the local commissioner stayed over in Kolkata. The next morning we again mentioned and brought up the matter before the Delhi High Court and got a specific order to open all the safes and almirahs. With that order, I again flew back to Kolkata that night and we again went to the premises the next morning to get it enforced. While I do not want to go into the details, since both parties thereafter amicably settled the matter, it was a unique on-the-floor experience which stands out in memory even now.

    A more recent interesting episode was arguing on behalf of a sugar manufacturing company against local sugarcane farmers of a village before the Deputy Commissioner, Bellary. The farmers were refusing to provide sugarcane to the factory due to the alleged arrears in the payments of the previous sugar seasons. I had to argue that under the law all the farmers falling within the reserved area necessarily had to supply the cane to my client, irrespective of any past dues, for which they had already invoked the recovery mechanism. The farmers were led by the local MLA and were also represented by their lawyer. Our side had already made a statement against the intentions of the local MLA before the Karnataka High Court in a related matter and that had got reported in the newspapers before my visit to the village to argue the matter. When I reached there with the company representatives, I was amazed to see that a huge community hall was reserved for the hearing and about 300 farmers had gathered and the atmosphere was volatile. The local MLA met us as we were entering the building and started shouting at the company representatives. There were only a few policemen and they could not have handled the situation if the mass had taken the law into hands. The arguments were like making public speeches since that had to be made from the stage before the full crowd using the microphones. I was reminded of my school and college debating and mooting days. When I started arguing in English, the crowd started shouting that I should argue only in Kannada. The Deputy Commissioner who was a very dynamic young IAS officer suddenly took complete charge of the situation and demanded that the crowd shall not protest since I was not very fluent in Kannada. There were detailed arguments and counter-arguments between me and the farmers’ lawyer and the crowd patiently heard everything. The MLA also respected the fact that legal arguments under the Sugarcane Control Order and Essential Commodities Act were going on and remained silent watching the whole proceedings from the front row. Once the hearing was over, the crowd started getting agitated again, demanding that the order should be pronounced immediately. Many people came forward and started to stage a gherao, when the policemen came forward to make way for the Deputy Commissioner. In the process, we also made our way out and left for the hotel.

    There are many other interesting episodes I can narrate, but I am stopping here as this answer has already become very lengthy.

     

    How did you face the work pressure?

    In a way, everything in the profession of law, and not merely being in law firms, can be demanding. But I will always say with the fullest pride and conviction that JSA is a bliss.

    There are two very helpful ways to handle pressures in this profession:

    Firstly, you should try to know in detail each matter you handle. Unwilling or unenthusiastic participation without trying to be on the top of everything in a matter can make the situation very painful. Please also understand that you cannot mentally dislike or fight anything and then conquer it. You can conquer something only by most genuinely loving it. Comfort and ease are directly proportionate to your familiarity with the matter at hand. Your familiarity with the matter is directly proportionate to the time, attention and nurturing you give to it. Therefore much of it has got to do with the mind-set. If your mind genuinely aspires for heavier responsibilities, it will work wonders. If you decided to join law and you have progressed to a stage where there is no going back to engineering or medicine or anything else, then you might as well love your work on the subject than keep focusing on the exhaustion it causes.

    Secondly, avoid as much as possible, the intake of people-related negativity. It only takes away time and energy unnecessarily. Stop judging others. Stop telling yourself how imperfect or unjust others are. Stop also fearing that someone else will take away what you think is due to you. Do not let your mind dwarf you. Do not be a constant complaint-box indulging in shadow-boxing. The world has been, is and will remain unfair in varying degrees. There is no perfect world that has ever existed. While we all should work towards an ideal world, we should also remain realistic. After all, when you decided to join law, did you not know that you will interact with all sorts of people in life? Do you think a Jethmalani or a Nariman or a Venugopal or a Salve was made because they dealt all along with only the nicest of human beings? I am certain they would have dealt immensely with rogues, scoundrels and crooks in their fabulous journey as lawyers. So remain a good human being to everyone, without losing energy over the fact that an ideal world does not necessarily exist around us. A change in the mind-set can instantly take away your pains and bring a smile.

     

    A litigation lawyer in a corporate law firm is in the minority. What are your experiences holding this unique position?

    That is a very interesting question. I have to tell you three things in response:

    Firstly, in the litigation circles in general, you will find a lot of people who are cynical about non-litigation work and are unable to appreciate or respect the practice of corporate or transactional laws as real lawyering. I feel sad for those who sustain the said mentality. Let me tell you in no uncertain terms that law is not all about disputes. Law as a profession was derived from the requirements and needs of the society. If today’s society or economy mandates that a lawyer has a distinct space in a bank or an insurance company, who are we to deny it and claim that a lawyer is only for the court rooms? Therefore do not live in a self-created illusory world of bald denials.

    Secondly, we also need to burst this false and unfounded myth that most of our premier law schools are not serving the society since they are primarily catering to the needs of the corporate world. How many law graduates are created every year in this country and what percentage of them can all the corporate law firms and companies together recruit? Will Amarchand, JSA, AZB, Trilegal and all the other top law firms together be able to recruit even 1000 fresh lawyers in a year? If I am not mistaken we are creating not less than 50,000 new lawyers every year. If you wish to write off the largest majority of new lawyers who add to the already over-crowded court rooms and wish to find fault with the micro-minority who get corporate placements, the problem is really your inability to see the plain and simple reality. Further, I am also willing to concede that my friends on the corporate side helping the business of a company to be set up or helping a company with its project finance is doing as much, if not more, service to the society as is done by me or others in the court rooms.

    Thirdly, to specifically answer your question, I believe there is a very unique space for a litigation lawyer in a firm which primarily handles non-litigation works. A litigation lawyer is essentially a story-teller. He always has a narration to make. His clients come with narratives. His files are full of narrations. He reads his case laws to extract a dictum emerging out of divergent contentions placed in the background of a factual narration.  He reads his statutes looking for “the scheme of the law” and in the said process goes back into the social context or philosophy of law also goes forward into the social consequence of the written words of law. He is constantly preparing to articulate a narration in writing in his court pleadings. He is constantly selling stories to the judges. There is therefore an inner voice that starts communicating with you as a litigation lawyer, which I think can be synergised well even with non-litigation work. I truly believe that this mental process can tremendously help you creatively contribute to the work your colleagues are doing even in the non-litigation spheres. You can, not only deal with a contract when it runs into a dispute but can also assist your colleagues with appreciating a contract in a certain narrative form, concept and structure from its formative stages itself. You can assist your friends with providing legal opinions from various interpretative possibilities. According to me, a new work culture has to emerge which appreciates that a litigation and a non-litigation lawyer have a lot to work to do in tandem at every stage of a deal. Instead of seeing practise areas in isolation, synergies should be developed and maintained at stages when a contract is being drawn up, when a certain structure is being designed and when clauses are added in developing the said structure.

     

    What are the most important characteristic one needs to develop to succeed in the field of law? 

    Everything which works for one person, need not necessarily work for another. One needs to find his or her own answers and approaches through a constant process of enquiries, observations and self-analysis. There can however be a few very general guidelines, which possibly work commonly for the vast majority. In that general sense, I can always say a few things like one must constantly work on his language skills, on his physical and mental energy levels to sit for long hours of work, on his ability to carry the people around you together, on his approachability and availability to those who you service etc.

    But what according to me should form the most important characteristic or hallmark is the ability to proportionately mix the right amount of humility with the right amount of confidence, without either of it coming at the expense of the other.

    Humility is a must, or else you will never be a constant learner. You may be a first rank holder in 10th or 12th, but do not come to law with the same approach with which you thought of academics earlier. There would have been a certain amount of comprehensiveness or finality to anything you dealt with in your school before joining law. That is just not the case with law. Do not think that law is all about the syllabus you have in each subject in your class. For example, you may have just one semester to complete the Evidence Act, but let us bow down to the fact that it takes a life time to know the Evidence Act well. You may have just two semesters to deal with the whole of Company law, but it is again a lifetime affair to know it well. So, the legal education in law schools is only an introduction to the larger world. All along the law school as well as while in the profession, there is a constant requirement to bow down before the enormity of the subject and also the eminence of the great masters around.

    However, this humility shall not come at the expense of your confidence. The study and practise of law is also about the ability to take one’s own positions. I can tell you about my batch from NUJS. Throughout NUJS our batch debated human rights, child rights, farmers’ rights, tribal rights, women’s rights, prisoner’s rights and the like. However, our batch turned out to be one of largest contributors to corporate law practise. How does something like this happen? This happens because essentially you are developing a talent. You are developing the confidence of a person to go into details of any subject and take one’s own stand. Many times, Dr. Menon would engage the class in discussions based on some newspaper article instead of statutory provisions, and would yet create a confident lawyer out of you at the end of the session. Therefore please remember that while you respectfully carry the much-needed facet of humility, you must also confidently be able to believe that even if the best counsel in the country appears against you in a matter, you will do a good job and will not run away. If he can do it, so can you. Can’t you? Think about it.

  • Ayon Basu, Manager-Legal, Vodafone Mobile Services Limited, on being in-house counsel, and his experience

    Ayon Basu, Manager-Legal, Vodafone Mobile Services Limited, on being in-house counsel, and his experience

    Ayon Basu graduated in law from Symbiosis Law School, Pune, in 2013. After successful stints with S. Jalan and Company, Advocates & Solicitors, Kolkata, and Pangea3 Thomson Reuters, Mumbai, he is currently Legal Manager at Vodafone Mobile Services Limited, where his role entails looking after the Kolkata and West Bengal Telecom Circles along with Sikkim and Andaman and Nicobar Island. The job involves managing litigation along with supporting and advising business in order to minimize risk and ensure general legal compliance.

    In this interview we speak to him about:

    • His time at Symbiosis Law School
    • His role at Vodafone
    • His experience thus far

    What would you like to say to our readers in the manner of an introduction of yourself?

    I am an in-house counsel (presently designated as Manager – Legal) working with Vodafone in Kolkata. I graduated from Symbiosis Law School, Pune in 2013 and have been in the profession since then.

     

    What motivated you to take up law as your choice of career? Are you a first generation lawyer?

    I’ll answer the second question first, to provide a background to the first. Yes, I am a first generation lawyer, owing to which, much of what I knew or understood about law prior to law school, was what I got to watch and observe in cinema. We all know how the two are vastly disconnected. So yes, I liked arguing and considered the concept of legality as intellectually intriguing.

     

    Tell us a bit about your college days at Symbiosis Law School, Pune.

    The key responsibility of a business/corporate lawyer is to first understand the business, thereupon working closely and liaising with necessary stakeholders etc. I graduated with a BBA LLB degree, and the curriculum at SLS, Pune was very friendly to students and gave us the leg space to carve our own niche. Apart from the academic sphere, the five years in Pune were incredible! I strongly feel it is very important for any student to enjoy the social life that college brings as that helps us in various ways in our future. That is one of the strengths of SLS Alumni, the strong bonding and networking that we have today.

     

    Could you tell us about the internships you took up, and what you learnt from those experiences?

    I have interned with Senior Counsels, firms and PSUs during my academic stint and each of these internships have contributed a good deal to who I am today. Amongst all, I believe that my first internship and my first full time assignment with a law firm had opened me up on how to deal with clients (paradoxical as it may sound, I happen to be one of their clients today!)

     

    What advice would you give students in avoiding a decision paralysis? 

    This is something I had personally faced, and I graduated in 2013 with a plethora of options with regard to the next step I was to take. I believe the decision must be made on the basis of the exposure one receives while interning and the candidates own aims/interests. At 22/23 one has a career of over 35 years to look forward to and hence, must chart out his/her own path. Two people cannot have identical career paths. Hence, one must thoroughly look into his/ her options and work them out accordingly.  

     

    What areas of law interested you during your legal education?

    Initially, post my first internship with Sr. Advocate Ranjan Bachawat, I had keen interest in IPR. Personally though, Company Law and procedural laws are of utmost importance.

     

    Tell us about your early professional experiences at S. Jalan and Company, Advocates & Solicitors.

    S. Jalan and Company, is one of the reknowned old school law firms in Kolkata, and I was fortunate enough to work closely on some big ticket litigations during my brief stint there. This allowed me to understand how to balance business dynamics and present them accordingly before the Learned Court.

     

    What were the main takeaways for you from your time working with Pangea3 Thomson Reuters?

    I worked on quite a few international engagements, at P3TR and worked with a team spread across three cities in India, with the client sitting in the United States. Working in such a vast team, allowed me to learn how to blend in and satisfy a client’s requirement and negotiate with stakeholders accordingly.

     

    As an in-house counsel with Vodafone Mobile Services Limited, what does a typical working day look like for you?

    As an in house counsel, with a general legal profile, we are entrusted with looking after all forms of legal work, be it litigation, contracts or even compliance. A daily operational role does not allow us the luxury of fixed hours and billing time accordingly, as in the legal service industry. We are fire fighters and are looked up to by business as professional trouble shooters. I have been in the present role for almost two years and needless to say, I have been facing a plethora of complex problems on a day to day basis, each of which comes with its own novel challenges. The senior legal professionals in Vodafone India’s Legal Leadership Team are great mentors to have and are of great help in providing guidance and advise as and when required. Also, the Telecom industry is going through a rather interesting phase and it has been a great learning curve in adapting to the changes dictated by this phase.

     

    How do you manage your time between your professional and personal interests?

    I have always been an avid movie buff and watch a lot of cinema. This I feel widens my exposure and restores sanity after a hard day at work! Apart from films, I am also actively involved in playing football video games (Pro-Evolution Soccer and not FIFA) on the Playstation.

    I have also played guitar at an earlier stage in my life, though I barely ever get to play these days.

     

    Where would you like your career to take you five years down the line?

    My career and academic stint has seen me traveling between home and Maharashtra regularly. I never settle with anything and am always looking for novel steps to take in my career. Planning for the next five years has never been my style. There have been instances where I have had to take calls on opportunities as I have a clear vision in my head of what I seek to do. More than the five year bit, I’m more interested in where I’d be in the last decade of my professional career, and that’s what keeps me going.

     

    What advice would you like to give our readers, who are mostly law students and young lawyers?

    For students, I’d strongly suggest they enjoy college life with all the social obligations it brings and embrace any academic challenge. It is not possible to put one’s heart and soul in one’s work if one does not enjoy it. It is strongly recommended that they learn how to enjoy their academic or professional pursuits and read up on latest amendments. It goes without saying, that a law student ought to be updated with the news in order to be well versed with all kinds of regulatory changes.

     

  • Arjun Krishnan, Advocate-on-Record, on arbitration, studying at Oxford, and securing AIR 2 in the AoR examination

    Arjun Krishnan, Advocate-on-Record, on arbitration, studying at Oxford, and securing AIR 2 in the AoR examination

    Arjun graduated from NLSIU, Bangalore, in 2005. Thereafter, he received the Inlaks Scholarship to study at New College, University of Oxford, in the prestigious BCL programme. Since 2006, he has been practicing in India. Between 2006-2011/12 he was the junior of Gourab Banerji, Sr. Advocate & Barrister. In 2012, he took the Advocate-on-Record exam, and was awarded a silver medal and the Mukesh Goswami Memorial Prize for obtaining the 2nd rank in the Supreme Court’s AOR examination. Thereafter, he branched out and set up an independent legal practice.

    In this interview we speak to him about:

    • His time at NLSIU
    • Preparing for the AoR examination
    • His new role at Samvad Partners

    How would you like to introduce yourself to our readers? Do you come from a family of lawyers?

    I do not come from a family of lawyers. Some of my more distant relatives were lawyers, but that did not influence my career, or my decision to pursue law. Having said that, I am from what you would call an ‘upper middle class’ background. Where you start from does make a difference to where you end up – without that I probably wouldn’t have made some of the decisions or taken some of the opportunities that came my way. Perhaps, these choices or opportunities would not have presented themselves to persons who were not as in the same position as me.

     

    What was it that got you interested in the legal field?

    When I started my legal education, I had no idea about the law, other than the distorted picture of what cinema and television gave us in the late 1990s. My father had a big role to play. He was keen that I join a profession, and had heard about the National Law School at Bangalore. He encouraged me to give the entrance exam (there was no CLAT back then), which I did. I passed – I was last on the list of candidates who made it. In retrospect, I was quite lucky, because my 12th Standard board exam performance was not exactly stellar. I got into the legal profession without knowing anything about it.

    How was your experience in NLSIU? 

    Simply put, it was a defining and enriching experience – the value of which is inestimable. In every way – socially, intellectually, morally – I think I came out of the institution a better version of myself. And everyone there made a big contribution in this. We had some excellent professors. They taught students to question and challenge what they had read about. This is a really important skill for a lawyer – we do this every day, sometimes without thinking. Here I must commend the multi-disciplinary approach at NLSIU. We had to read history, economics and political science apart from the law. In my experience, it was our history professor – Dr. V.S. Elizabeth, who first taught us to challenge and question some of things we took as gospel truth. I hope she reads this and knows what a great contribution she made. There were a number of others who were great teachers in their own way – Prof. Jayagovind, Prof. Ramakrishna, Prof. U.R. Rai, Prof. A.K. Rai, Prof. Ramesh, and many more.

    But more than anything else, it was the other students there who challenged you to do better and be a better person all the time. My closest and best friends are all from my college days. All law students should make the most of their years in college. The lessons learnt outside the classroom are generally the more important ones.

    As far as extra-curricular activities were concerned, I was part of the Literary and Debating Society. Quizzing was very big in Bangalore back then. We reached the semi-finals of University Challenge, a TV Quiz Show. A team that I was part of was ranked second in the State of Karnataka. Frankly, I found mooting to be quite boring, though it does teach you a lot of skills you can use in the practice of law. I think legal writing is far more important. I did some of that – writing articles and trying to get them published in journals. As a lawyer, the ability to put across legal arguments clearly in the written form is a valuable skill – whether you end up as a corporate lawyer or as a disputes lawyer.

    I don’t really count internships as extra-curricular because they were a part of the curriculum when I was at NLS. We got grades based on the feedback the lawyers would give the interns and based on what we did during the internships. I think its important to take internships seriously. What to do after law school is a difficult choice, at the best of times. It is important to try out different kinds of legal work to see what suits your personality.

    Did Law School prepare me for the real world? – yes and no. I think legal practice is very different from learning about the law. Nothing can prepare you for all the things you are going to face when you get into a law office.

    But some of the skills you learn in law school can help you a great deal in legal practice. Firstly, the basics are important – contract law, criminal law, property, constitutional law, tort – without this you will spend a lot more time struggling in the initial years. Secondly, you don’t need to know all the law, but you do need to know where to find it. I can’t stress the importance of good legal research skills in the workplace enough. By this, I don’t just mean being skilled at using a legal database (though that is also important nowadays) – you have to know where to start. Usually, this is with the statute itself or with a good book.

    What were your areas of interest in law school? How did you recognise and cultivate such interests?

    In law school, I used to be very interested in Intellectual Property as a subject. I read a lot about the subject, attended all the talks and lectures about this field. I even took on the assignment of being a teaching assistant. Alas, the charm wore off when I joined legal practice. As a subject, I think it is more interesting in the books, than in actual practice. Competition law, on the other hand, continues to be of interest to me. I have been fortunate to be able to work with the Competition Commission of India on a number of cases.

     

    Can you describe your experience at Oxford? 

    The whole Oxford experience was nothing short of magical. I went to New College (which ironically was founded in 1379, as the New College of St. Mary of Winchester at Oxford). It really is the most magnificent and beautiful place. I was fortunate to be amongst an amazing group of graduate students, from across disciplines.

    I think in terms of quality and teaching methodology, there is no course like the BCL at Oxford. Its one of the few graduate courses where there is a tutorial system – essentially either individually or a small group of students sit together with the law tutor to discuss the law. We were taught by some of the leading lights in their respective fields. For instance, Conflict of Laws was taught by Professors Adrian Briggs and Edwin Peel. One course which stood out for me was Philosophical Foundations of the Common Law – I could actually make connections between jurisdprudence and the actual practice of law.

    I was very fortunate to be awarded a scholarship by the Inlaks Foundation to cover almost all my expenses of studying abroad. I am not sure if the process remains the same – but there was a written application and two rounds of interview. During the final round there were at least a dozen people in the room, all past scholars and some of them famous personalities who were instantly recognizable. It was quite inspiring to see what people had gone on to do after being awarded an Inlaks scholarship.

    How can students increase their chances of obtaining a scholarship? Working hard and getting good grades is very important. There is no substitute for that. Other than that, you have to set yourself apart from the crowd. Another very important thing is your references – be it professional or academic ones. Unless you were able to impress your professors and senior colleagues at work, you are unlikely to get good references.

     

    What are your views about the importance of further studies beyond the undergraduate level? 

    There are two or three aspects to this, from the point of view of someone who doesn’t want to pursue an academic career but become a practising lawyer. The first is that it’s a great experience – in and of itself. You do learn to think about the law in new and different ways. If the graduate degree has a specialisation, then this would certainly help your career in that specialised field. The second thing to know is, further studies will not make you a more successful lawyer. Just because you have an LLM doesn’t mean that you are better than the rest. The qualities that go into the making of a successful lawyer in this country have more to do with hard work, perseverance, the ability to interact with and impress clients, and most of all – a healthy slice of good fortune. The third thing is – money. Further studies (particularly abroad) can be quite expensive. If you cannot afford it, or you do not have funding, then you should not worry too much about further studies. It will not make or break your career. But if you can (afford it) – go for it!

     

    What made you decide to litigate instead of taking up a job at a law firm, which seems to be the trend these days?

    When I was in Law School, I interned with a number of litigating lawyers. I also interned with a law firm. But I found that I found litigation more interesting – I could see myself doing that for the rest of my life. One of the persons I interned with was Gourab Banerji, a barrister and a Senior Advocate. He is one of the finest commercial lawyers in the country, and very fine human being. I was very sure that I wanted to work with him when I completed my studies. Working in his chambers as a junior advocate to Mr. Banerji was my first, and only job. Working with him gave me the skills and confidence I needed to begin practice independently.

    But I couldn’t have done it without the support of my parents, who also live in Delhi. I always knew I had their support, and didn’t have to worry about paying rent or worry too much about money. Without the support of family –both  financial and moral, practicing independently would have been a much bigger challenge than it was.

     

    How did you prepare for the AoR examination?

    (Arjun ranked second in the country in the AoR examination.)

    It is not an easy exam, and I am firmly of the belief that you have to take some time off from work to prepare. I took a little over a month off, and tried to avoid going to court altogether. Luckily the exams are held in early June, and the Supreme Court closes in mid-May for the summer vacation. I think the key is to practice writing because finishing the paper and attempting all the questions can be very challenging.

     

    Can you recall the first time you appeared in court, or a time you appeared in court for a significant matter? 

    I do remember my first significant appearance and it is a very vivid memory. It was a case in the regular hearing list of the Supreme Court, before Justice A.K. Mathur and Justice Dalveer Bhandari. The case had been in the regular list for months and it never used to reach. But that day, it did reach. My Senior, Mr. Banerji, was arguing a case in another court. The briefing counsel was also held up elsewhere. I was the only one there. I asked for a short adjournment, but the bench was not agreeable. They passed over the matter and told me to be ready to argue. I must confess, to my great embarrassment, that I was not prepared. I quickly went over the written notes, and when my turn came, I made my submissions to the Court to the best of my ability. I remember being extremely nervous and my hands were shaking. Eventually my Senior arrived and rescued me. I have to say that the Bench was extremely indulgent, and I will be forever grateful for that experience. It’s a reported judgment – “Nadia District Primary School Council v. Sristidhar Biswas & ors”. But I learnt a lesson the hard way – if you are holding a brief, be prepared to argue it, or at least know what it is about. It’s a story I always share with my junior colleagues in the hope that they will do better than I did, if caught in a similar situation.

    As far as the attitude towards junior counsel is concerned (I can only speak from anecdotal and personal experience), I have had a varied experience. In the Delhi High Court, I think the experience, on the whole, has been that judges have been very patient and encouraging to juniors, as long as they are able to exhibit that they are well prepared. In the Supreme Court given the stage of proceedings, the time for presenting your point is quite short. It is a very difficult skill to put the best part of your case, anticipating what the Judges have in mind. For this reason, more experienced counsel tend to fare better.

     

    What caused the decision to join as a partner at Samvad Partners? 

    There are a number of reasons. The primary reason was that I found that there are limitations to practising as an independent practitioner. Without the organisation and infrastructure that the law firm setup provides, it is not possible to meet the challenges posed by large commercial litigations. At the same time, being part of Samvad Partners does not mean I would have to give up on arguing cases, which I enjoy. It was a win-win for both Samvad, and me, personally. I have been interacting with them for quite some time now, and I was impressed not only with their professionalism but also their ethics. Another reason is that, whether we like it or not, the hitherto disorganised or unorganised legal market is tending towards greater organisation – in the form of partnership firms and LLPs. But after having practised as an independent practitioner, there are very few places that I could adjust to working in – Samvad Partners seemed to be the perfect fit for me. My role at Samvad is to grow their disputes practice in Delhi from the ground up, and in this, the firm has given me a lot of freedom and flexibility. Above all, Samvad is a partnership in the truest sense of the word – everyone gets their due and the work environment is underlined by compassion.

     

    Can you give law students some advice on how to go about researching and drafting their work? 

    I think the important thing is to first concentrate on the written work that is part of the curriculum. Don’t plagiarise – when you start out at law school no one expects you to produce original academic research. Concentrate on in-depth research. Once you start seeing that there are two sides to every argument through your research, you will be ready to start writing something that may have a chance of getting published. To begin with try to get your articles published in the journal sections of law reports, and then move to peer-reviewed journals.

     

    Generally speaking, what qualities are most important to succeed in the field of litigation and how can law students develop them?

    Of course, hard work and perseverance are the most important qualities. But I have to admit that I was very naive when I joined the bar. If I had known how difficult it was going to be, I am sure I would have had second thoughts. I always used to wonder why do juniors in litigation get paid so little. After ten years of practice, I still think juniors are a terribly under-paid lot, though there has been an overall improvement in pay. But there is a flip-side to this. If I was paid handsomely, what incentive would there be to make a niche for myself and develop a clientele of my own?

     

    Do you think arbitration is the future of dispute resolution in India? 

    I think arbitration has a future in India, but it is not the future of dispute resolution in India. Arbitration in India suffers from a lot of problems and we are quite a long way away from addressing them. Unless we sort out our problems with justice delivery through the system of courts, we can’t begin to address the real, practical problems facing arbitration in India today. The people who are stakeholders in the arbitration system are not different from the stakeholders in the court system. Lawyers in India (on the whole) take on too much work, and too much of that work is underpaid. They are not able to devote sufficient attention to any particular case. Wherever we see arbitration thrive in the west, schedules are maintained scrupulously. Part of the reason for this is that lawyers are incentivized to do this. So if a court hearing or arbitration is fixed for a particular set of dates, nothing else is scheduled around the same dates. A lot of things have to change for this to happen in India. This is just one example. As a result, arbitration is neither speedy nor cost effective. I think arbitration clauses are inserted into contracts nowadays without much thought. Nobody seems to be thinking – are we better off with or without an arbitration clause in this contract?

     

    How do you stay up to date about the recent developments in all the fields you work in and have an interest in? 

    My Senior advised me to go through the loose/unbound parts of law reports as soon as they were delivered to the office. It was a great way to keep in touch with the latest judgments. Nowadays, things are much easier – all the updates come to your inbox or through social media!

     

    What advice do you have for our readers who are primarily college students?

    Whatever you do, enjoy yourself. If you don’t, you will regret it. These are the best days of your life and they won’t come back.

  • Abhishek Dutta, Founding and Managing Partner, Aureus Law Partner, on arbitration, taxation law, and starting his own practice

    Abhishek Dutta, Founding and Managing Partner, Aureus Law Partner, on arbitration, taxation law, and starting his own practice

    Abhishek graduated from NLSIU, Bengaluru, in 2002. He is the Founder and Managing Partner of Aureus Law Partners. He has been in the consulting industry for most of the last decade and a half. Having worked in Ernst & Young, he decided to move with the founding team of BMR Advisors, and worked with BMR Advisors till 2011. After a long stint in BMR, he founded the tax team of HSA Advocates, which saw HSA Advocates being ranked in International Tax Review rankings for the first time as a tier two practice.

    In this interview we speak to him about:

    • His time at NLSIU
    • The Indian tax regime
    • Working for Ernst and Young, and HSA

    Given that most of our readers are law students and young lawyers, how will you introduce yourself to them? 

    I am the first lawyer in my extended family. And a first generation Delhiite, if there is such a term. My introduction to any young lawyer at this stage of my career would perhaps be that I am just like you, with self-belief, courage of conviction, and aspirations. For me, starting a law firm and working as a Partner in Aureus Law Partners is as new as a career in law would be for you. The quest to perform and succeed would be your constant wingmen. But do remember to savour the small successes, and take failure of any kind in your stride.

     

    What was it that got you interested in the legal field?

    Three factors really – at the time when I was completing my school, the only two ‘career choices’ were medicine or engineering. I did not want to pursue either.

    The second reason is perhaps more contextual. My father had been embroiled in litigation ever since he was a very young. I wanted to help him out, and studying law was one of the ways in which I could.

    The third reason being – I got through NLSIU. Had it been any other institution (and at the time the only other choices were the three year courses which were not really an option immediately out of school), I would have probably pursued chartered accountancy, and definitely cricket.

    How was your experience in NLSIU? 

    We end up spending five of our formative years in a residential course in NLS. You go in as an eighteen year old greenhorn and come out as a 23 year old qualified lawyer. The world that you had left behind in your small town, has in the meanwhile, completely changed. This is bound to shape your future years as a professional and a person. The experience in law school instils a certain kind of confidence. The five years in law school makes you see the other point of view. This is important in several ways, as the ability to see the other point of view and choosing to agree or disagree with it depends on reasons that you give yourself for doing so. The ability to reason conflicting positions out is at the heart of understanding the role that you play later. I played cricket  for the university team through my five years– internships and moots were limited to coursework only! Playing a part in taking NLS to the second round of the South Zonal Inter Varsity Tournament in my first year, and being the captain of the cricket team in the third year, perhaps contributed the most to my identity in law school. Law School taught me how to research, provided me with an analytical bent of mind and to express myself. This is important in real world practice of law as well.

     

    What were your areas of interest in law school? How did you recognise and cultivate such interests?

    I used to participate in a lot of sporting activities and some inter class cultural events. Other than that, I did wish to write, and perhaps would do so yet. And as of other areas of ‘interests’ – I met Nimisha in NLSIU, who I am now married to and have twin daughters with! So that turned out well.

     

    Have you ever considered pursuing further studies? 

    I had certainly thought about further studies, but circumstances back home would not have allowed me to take another year before I got into a career. I think in today’s context higher education is desirable. However, I feel that getting a prestigious scholarship is what one should be aiming for.

     

    How did you secure an appointment with Ernst and Young?

    I got to know that there was a vacancy through Gaurav Malhotra, a senior from law school who used to work in EY at that point of time. I then applied via the regular channels with my CV and got called for an interview.  After being selected as an executive, bulk of the work assigned to me was to do with Value Added Tax advisory services – fairly niche work.  I left EY upon, and  perhaps because of, the beginning of BMR Advisors which was founded by Bobby Parikh, Mukesh Butani, Rajeev Dimri and a host of other partners and seniors from EY.  

     

    What motivated you to join BMR Advisors instead? 

    I joined BMR Advisors due to the promise of exposure, the opportunity to work directly with top notch professionals in the indirect tax space like Rajeev Dimri and Sujit Ghosh (who also is an NLSIU alumni), and the certainty of bone crushing work schedule – the latter of which almost always ensures a very steep learning curve, which is something I was aiming for. At BMR I dealt with all indirect taxes and worked on client assignments which only a few others would have at that stage of one’s career. Notably, I worked as the only senior associate in Delhi on jobs to transition some of the biggest companies to Value Added Tax back in 2005. I have the privilege of claiming that I played a (big?) role in transitioning business like GSK, Nokia, Cargill, etc. to VAT. My experience in BMR was tremendous throughout to say the least.  BMR taught me a lot of what I know today. It also gave me the confidence to strike out on my own – and I did that, which I guess some of my seniors in BMR may still not be very happy about! 

     

    You founded the tax team at HSA Advocates. How did you go about doing this? 

    The decision to join HSA Advocates was based on an idea to render tax and legal services together as a seamless offering. Rashmi Chaudhury, our partner in Aureus, contributed to and developed this idea with me at the time.

    Essentially, in accounting firms, one did not provide legal services along with tax advisory. Drafting assistance, for example, would not be provided by an accounting firm, even though one may know an arrangement inside out having advised the business on the tax implications of such transactional arrangements. This, I felt, was limiting. I got the opportunity to speak to Hemant (through Utsa Shome who was working for HSA at that point of time) and got to present a business plan to the then partners at HSA. It was the indulgence of the Partner team in HSA at the time that allowed us to work with them. I am deeply thankful for that. I’d like to think that we managed to meet the business plan. We also got HSA to rank in the International Tax Review rankings at tier three.

    Taxation law is a bit of everything really. The best part about tax practice is that it allows you to learn about virtually all industries, and interact with business, legal and finance teams alike. Of course there is another aspect of the practice (more particularly seen in Big Four, etc.) that dictates that a tax professional be a niche area advisor. This may have its merits at an organisational level, but could be a limiting factor at a professional / personal level.

     

    Can you please share your opinion on the GST Bill?

    GST is a bit of two things really; it is continuity in several aspects that relates to service tax, while revamping the entire taxation regime in relation to goods. The most important change – which the common man does not really focus on – is that it has taken excise duty away. Common understanding aside, from a ‘doing business’ stand-point GST changes everything for most businesses. More importantly it changes the manner in which compliances are done, and brings is some amount of certainty in several areas where there was no certainty earlier.  

    The tax regime of any country is typified by the administration. I like to think that I am a keen observer and a student of tax administration in India. I have contributed an essay in an HSA sponsored publication that I had edited entitled “Perspectives: On certain aspects in Indian taxation” where I had commented at length on tax administration, having studied various authorities on the subject.

     

    What motivated you to leave HSA and found Aureus Law Partners? 

    Again, leaving HSA was more of a strategic decision to expand beyond infrastructure practice. As I already noted, tax work gives you a unique perspective into a transaction, and the industry as a whole. You end up working closely with the commercial and business team, which always helps to structure a deal, while keeping in view the possibility of litigation on account of positions taken. This is the idea which gave birth to Aureus,  which provides end to end solution across industries. I got lucky in that I had a tremendous team with me – we had very good rapport and the attorneys who became the first few Aureuseans, were all willing to share the risk.  Some of these associates are still with the Firm and have gone on to open our branches in various locations. For instance, Chinmay and Suresh handle our Uttarakhand presence having been there since day zero in the Firm.  Some of the others have gone on for further studies, and / or are placed with larger firms. Both these developments are a matter of pride for me and the Firm.

    The other reason for starting a new firm was that I got an opportunity of being able to work with Mr. Kantawala who is senior partner at Aureus. I had interned with him when I was a student, and worked on some of his matters later as a litigator from an associated chamber. That’s another story – I started my career as a litigator under Ajit Warrier, who is now a partner at SAM. Our chambers (NN Agarwal & Associates) used to work quite closely with Mr. Kantawala at the time.  I always felt that a firm should have a very strong litigation practice, which Mr. Kantawala has ensured for Aureus Law Partners.

     

    What is your current role as the Founding and Managing Partner?

    As the Chief Executive & Partner at Aureus, the responsibilities range from executing engagements, to developing business to office administration and managing the attorneys in the firm. As a professional matures in career, expertise becomes wider. This is where I find myself now. I am called upon to render strategic advisory assistance to clients – which may have to do with corporate criminal matters to M&A advisory to targets and investors alike, and even business and legal advice to promotor groups as and when called for. Taxes, and therefore by extension GST, remains a focus area, having worked in the area for the better part of my professional life. I have had the opportunity to work on some very big ticket matters for large industry majors, including the likes of Indorama, Nike, Lanco, Wipro, etc. to name a few. We have managed large litigations and arbitrations where I have been involved on a hands on basis along with our litigation team. We have provided strategic advisory to offshore entities in setting up presence in India, and continue to manage their operational compliances in India.  We are attempting to establish our presence in various new industries, including defence, insurance and the like. So the hands are quite full.

    In addition to these, one needs to manage the office infrastructure. From day one in the Firm we had time sheet, accounting and invoicing systems. In fact, I also was hands on in developing our website and the client outreach programs. These are tough jobs – and need to be done. The responsibilities are varied. There is no dearth of work.  

     

    Can you give law students some advice on how to go about researching and drafting their work? 

    Research, content, language, prose, and formatting. I think these are the things that you need to focus on to be able to be published.

     

    Do you think arbitration is the future of dispute resolution in India? 

    Our litigation and arbitration practice is a well-established practice and this shows in the fact that  we have succeeded in getting some big ticket matters in arbitration.  We have achieved success in international commercial arbitration out of London in the first year of our founding itself when we secured costs from the Arbitrator towards legal expenses to be paid by the offshore claimant. The claimant had to pay damages to our client as well. All this without even leaving Delhi to attend the arbitral proceedings.

    Recently, we achieved closure in an arbitration matter in insurance, by virtue of an opinion that we had given and are representing a client in relation to a D&O insurance policy. Arbitration would be the recommended course of action for these and many other such newer areas of law, for which precedents are few and far between. Of course, traditional areas of law also benefit from an arbitral process. There are very good arbitration centres in India now. These can be used for the purposes of effective, cost efficient and quick resolution of disputes.

     

    How do you stay up to date about the recent developments in all the fields you work in and have an interest in?

    In today’s day and age literary and professional resources are much more easily available thanks to the net. I would suggest that students and professionals alike maintain a hunger to read. Given a chance, read anything you can lay your hands on. Also, I find that certain internet resources are very good sources of primers on various areas which a student may not be familiar with. These could help in a base level understanding and serve as a launch pad for further reading and understanding of a particular subject. However, net based knowledge should be verified with the actual statutes and verified sources.

     

    What advice do you have for our readers?

    College is a time when you should focus on all aspects of your personality. Try to ensure that you do what you like and not just what you are told. This is the time when you form views, when you establish an identity, and when you try to give direction to your career. You should keep an open mind and try to learn as much as possible. And yes, don’t forget to have fun.

  • Deepak Singh, Associate Partner, Lexorbis Intellectual Property Attorneys, on Patent Law, and his experience

    Deepak Singh, Associate Partner, Lexorbis Intellectual Property Attorneys, on Patent Law, and his experience

    Deepak Singh graduated in law from University of Delhi, batch of 2015. Prior to that, he held a degree in Engineering from Maharshi Dayanand University. After a successful stint at LakshmiKumaran and Sridharan, and short span at Khurana and Khurana, and at IIPRD Consulting, he’s currently Associate Partner at Lexorbis. Deepak specialises in Patents, with an expertise in Software, Networking, and Telecommunications. He is actively involved in identifying inventions, drafting patent applications, performing Infringement analysis, drafting responses to office actions for Indian and foreign applications in the field of software, mechanical, medical robotics, bio-medical, robotic processes, medical devices, electrical, electronics, and automobiles.

     

    In this interview, we speak to him about:

    • His major shift from engineering to the IPR sector.
    • His role at Lexorbis.
    • His gainful experience in IPR.
    • The importance of mentors in the legal fraternity.

     

    How has your  degree in Engineering been useful in your work as a lawyer?

    During my school days, I wanted to become an Engineer like my father and never planned of becoming an Advocate. I got my engineering degree in computer science in 2006. Being a mediocre student, I decided to take up any engineering job and started my career in software domain.

    While working in the software domain, I got a call for a Patent Analyst profile from an HR of Anindus Consultants (Formerly known as Bluefile IP Services). Anindus Consultants was a subsidiary of Lakshmikumaran & Shridharan Attorneys. Following that, I was hired in 2007 as one of the first employees in the prosecution team of the IPR division. I  started my IPR career with drafting responses to US and EP office actions. I also got an opportunity to work for a US Attorney on analysing a patent portfolio for identifying potential patent infringers, preparing infringement charts, preparing invalidity contention charts, preparing response to invalidity contention charts, performing market analysis, and computing financial damages due to patent infringement by an infringing party.

    After four successful years with Anindus Consultants, I was shifted to the main firm Lakshmikumaran & Shridharan Attorneys. While working with the law firm, I felt a need of becoming an Advocate and therefore I joined the regular evening batch of the Law Faculty, University of Delhi. After three hard years, I completed my Law Graduation, which I had never planned for in my early days of career. There is no direct connection between engineering and legal graduation; but a job profile in Intellectual Property Rights, requires both technical as well as legal knowledge. Following my Law Graduation, I have also cleared a Patent Agent Exam and now I am an Engineer, an Advocate, and a Patent Agent. Thus, I am now a complete Intellectual Property Professional. As one can see, nothing was planned, everything kept on rolling from one strength to another.

     

    How has the transition been moving from the STEM discipline to legal studies?

    Like I have mentioned earlier, nothing was planned, everything kept on rolling. But yes, I started my career in the STEM discipline and then moved to legal the fraternity. In the initial days, I would think on a regular basis that whether I had taken a right step or not. But, as you can see that it proved out to be the best for me. I will not shy away from saying that STEM and legal world are totally different, but when you accept something from your heart, there is little to worry about. And as rightly said by someone “Nothing even becomes real till it is experienced”.

    What were the different activities that you took up at law school?

    I had attended the evening classes at Law Faculty, University of Delhi. I would join the class after the entire day at office for 10 long hours. But still, I managed to participate in a few sports events and annual day programs, apart from attending the moot court as a spectator. I really wanted to take a part in moot court, but my official responsibilities never allowed me to take another extra step beyond attending the classes.

     

    Did you always aspire to work in IP law?

    Well, I never even aspired to become a lawyer. But I joined the Law Fraternity either by chance or by luck. Year 2007 was a period of world job recession and even the right candidates were not getting right job. I am very thankful to God that I met right people at right places in that year. Whatever I am today is because of the friends and professionals I met in the year 2007. Becoming an IP Professional was never on my wish list but you never know what God had already decided for you.

     

    In a few years you got promoted from Associate to Principal Associate at L&S, which is one of the most reputed law firms in India. Please tell us a bit about it.

    The qualities and competencies vary from one professional to another. There is no formula to success. Some takes easier path, and other take longer ones. But, what matters in the end is whether you are successful or not.

    According to me, one has to have fair communication skills to deal with inventors, applicants, clients, and even the officers sitting in the patent offices. One need not to be excellent or exceptionally well versed with the in-depth knowledge of the developing technologies, but has to have good basic knowledge of the subject matter. In addition to that, as and when a professional career rises, one has to keep his legal knowledge updated from one level to another. So, basically, when you a make a distinction between an Engineer and a Lawyer, you will see that Engineer requires to have a good rather strong basic knowledge about his/her engineering domain, but the lawyer has to keep on updating his knowledge on day to day basis. He has read latest case laws or judgements to compete in the Legal Fraternity, which is not the case with Engineer.

    But, yes, I enjoyed with working with L&S. And  currently I am not a part of L&S but working as Associate Partner at Lexorbis Intellectual Property Attorneys.

    Having mentored a lot of interns what would be your advice to those seeking internships at law firms like yours?

    The qualities required for internship varies from one firm to another. There is no sure shot formula. But yes, I would recommend that an aspirant can connect socially with one or more seniors over the social network to secure the internship program. Otherwise, each firm has their own rules and guidelines to select the interns for the internship.

     

    What is your stance on India’s present standard of protection for software?

    The Patent Office has released new revised Guidelines for Examination of Computer Related inventions (CRIs) in June 2017. These Guidelines are modified version of the Guidelines published in February 2016, last year.

    I would not like to go into details but would like to let the inventors or investors know that the new Guidelines are definitely a step forward in positive direction and are in line with foreign jurisdiction practices. That is, with the new Guidelines, the success ratio for grant of patent related to software will now increase.

     

    What do you do and how do you do it?

    I have recently joined Lexorbis. But, when I was at Lakshmikumaran and Sridharan Attorneys followed by Khurana and Khurana, I managed some of the largest client accounts at both the firms. I oversaw end-to-end client engagement, delivery and operations management, and resource management. The responsibilities also include interfacing with other organizational functions including management of paralegal operations in addition to technical part of the job.

    My responsibilities as Principal Associate followed by Associate Partner include managing a fast-growing group, defining processes, ensuring quality, maintaining client relations, and helping the new paralegal team of IPR Engineering to understand the various requirements of the Indian Patent Laws.

    Within the technical team, I was responsible for mentoring fellow associates, determining and ensuring revenue targets, and creating new workflow processes. The responsibilities further include identifying training requirements of team members, understanding their personal goals, and mentoring them to achieve their personal and professional objectives.

    At, Lexorbis, I would be involved in managing Foreign Law Firms and Clients, Strategic Planning, Operations Management, Business Process Transformation, Managing Budgets and P&Ls, Board Reporting, Client Engagement, Thought Leadership, and Managing Patents operations. I would also focus on removing bottlenecks, work in cross-functional teams to get things done in expected turnaround time, and attain scalability to create value for Lexorbis and its clients.

     

    What steps did you take to land in your present job?

    Currently, I am working as the Associate Partner with Lexorbis. Previously, I was working in Patents Division of Khurana & Khurana, IIPRD Consulting, and Lakshmikumaran & Sridharan. While landing on the present job. I have attained a Law degree and a Patent Agent Certificate.

    However, obtaining multiple degrees was not the only means to land in my present job. But most importantly, my 10 years of experience of working with Indian and Foreign clients on projects including patent drafting, patent prosecution, FTO, infringement analysis, patent searches, invalidation searches, litigation support, and attending hearings at Indian Patent Office and Indian Intellectual Property Appellate Board (IPAB).

     

    What are the most challenging aspects of being an IP lawyer?

    There are a number of challenges in this career. One major challenge is that majorly an IPR section or IPR job opportunities prevail in law firms. In law firms, there is a culture of sitting late in office and leaving after set time period. So, this in return offsets the work life balance.

     

    What final piece of advice would you like to pass on to our readers?

    A student aspiring to become an IPR professional needs to complete his/her law degree after a graduation in science. Also, everyone should visit a career counsellor at least once to choose his/her career and to sort out what they want to be. A career counsellor’s job is to assist or guide a student to figure out what they want to be.

  • Ishana Tripathi, Legal Practitioner, on Policy Law, working for Tier-I firms, and her diverse experience

    Ishana Tripathi, Legal Practitioner, on Policy Law, working for Tier-I firms, and her diverse experience

    Ishana graduated from NALSAR in 2011 and joined AZB in 2011. After working there for three years in the fields of acquisitions, inbound investments, commercial/civil/corporate crime litigation and arbitration, she then branched into helping set up a private mediation centre – Centre for Advanced Mediation Practice. She assisted them with rule drafting and case management strategies and also a lot of business development. In 2015, she started work on two projects in parallel, the Centre for Policy and Research, Bangalore, and Vidhi Legal, Delhi; one on civic citizenship to develop a constitutional law search engine and the other on court annexed mediation.
    In this interview we speak to her about:
    • Working for Tier-I firms such as JSA and AZB
    • Her time in NALSAR
    • Her experience in Policy Law

    How would you like to introduce yourself to our readers?

    This is a trick question. If it has to be concise, then it would someone who is trying to navigate through the various avenues of the inter discipline of law available today!  To me, there are a variety of experiences that one can gain even while pursuing a corporate law firm career without viewing it myopically.  While “specialising” in an area and building your own niche is important for recognition, if you don’t broaden your horizons to work – in every space and opportunity available, in my view, at this seventh year of practice, your ability as a lawyer stagnate.

    As a professional who is here to stay, you need to keep educating yourself to the changing ecosystem and while you can’t know everything, it our responsibility to be aware of as much as possible and not let go of opportunities that allow us to experiment. Law as professional can be a beautiful thought provoking and life changing way of life.

    Give us a brief overview your NALSAR experience for our readers.

    The NALSAR experience is novel to each one in terms of utility. For me, law school was a confusion on whether I want to pursue the law at all. Today, the passion I feel for law comes from working with some of the best people in the profession – a privilege that at the beginning  of my career in 2011, came from being a NALSAR graduate. It would be foolish to deny the edge that having an “National Law School” label will give you but to say that the students are smarter than the rest would be another thing and misconceived.  Its ultimately boils down to a proof of hard work, integrity and dedication – which you need to find within.

     

    What kind of internships did you undertake during your student years?

    Law school to me was an opportunity to explore and take chances. I did close to fifteen internships, with different work profiles, I didn’t repeat a single internship. This was a personal choice. I worked with government organisations like TRAI, not for profits like TERI, clerkships with the CLB and the Supreme Court, trial work, general litigation and corporate law firms.  By the end of it, the only thing, I had no idea what I wanted to do but I knew what I didn’t. For instance, I realised I was too mercurial for criminal trial work (here, i mean cases of rape, domestic violence, assault, and not white collar work) and decided not to pursue that route. I am now venturing back into criminal trial work – particularly in relation to restorative justice models – so lets see if I have reached an emotional maturity to handle it.

     

    Is it absolutely necessary to moot or undertake paper publications in order to be a successful advocate?

    There is no straight jacketed formula to success. Every individual has their own journey.  Like I said, law school is an individual experience. But if it is advice, then I would urge people to not be close minded, especially todays generation of lawyers –  who have many more avenues like legal journalism, legal policy, legislative drafting – which are work spaces available for a lawyer and were not as present in the mainstream in 2011 when I graduated. Try as much as possible in law school but do it with zeal and not because the mass says so. Law school prepares you to embrace different perspectives. While having ambition and direction are important, do not write off anything.

     

    What are your areas of specialisation and how did you go about choosing these fields to specialise in?

    I specialise in – ADR and corporate /commercial litigation, and, labour and employment laws. The first was an interest in law school which solidified at AZB and is a true academic area of interest which I continue to pursue. The latter is attributable entirely to AZB. If you would have told me in law school that I would become a diligence handbook for labour laws, I would have laughed at myself, it was my worst subject – mostly for the lack of interest in it! Today, the research and jurisprudence in it fascinates me to no end. I read regular updates and amendments.

     

    How were the first few years after your graduation? 

    Law school was a different phase all together. It engineers healthy competition, using your brains to argue/defend positions, change view points, embrace failure and general personal development.  It doesn’t, however, unfortunately give you notes on implementing the law. It is necessary that the absence of practice from theory in legal education changes. But, that’s a debate for another time. The internships that I was fortunate to get gave me some insights into the inner workings of the lawyer life but I suppose my mind was too young to comprehend and process the amount of handwork and brain cells required to materialise the text book law into strategy.

    I honestly lucked out with the mentors I had at work right out of law school. They instilled a quality of work and pushed my intellectual barriers. They enabled me as a lawyer right from the start, they never treated me as someone fresh off of the boat. It was “use your brains and assume responsibility for work” from go!  If I look back, my time at AZB, gave me a strong foundation and was a very empowering experience. I can blindly say that I am ardent Zia Mody fan, she defies patriarchy in the profession in ways I took for granted at the age of 21, when I started working there.

     

    Give us some insights on the qualities that Tier-I firms look for in prospective candidates.

    I can’t speak for every Tier-I firm and I also think recruitments and requirements change with time / legal landscapes.  Prospective candidates vary accordingly – depending on type of work, experience, firm expansions etc. If you are asking for what they look for in an fresh of the boat law student in an interview – for me, self confidence, good English (I suppose!), demonstrable ability to work well with others, passion for any element of the law is what worked.  

     

    Briefly describe your experience in assisting the set-up of the Centre for Advanced Mediation Practice.

    Professionally, after three years of arbitration experience at AZB, mediation was a new bull to me. To study it and embrace it was easier than I thought it would me. CAMP opened a new chapter to me as a person as well as a professional and gave me insight into being non – adversarial in thought process and also gave me new direction towards understanding law.  CAMP, to me, was being a part of a movement, which would shape a new dimension in legal process in India. It was of course, a new challenge, since going from the comfort of a corporate law firm to figuring out how to get conference call facilities! But that’s the beauty of a start up. Its not only the idea of it but also every other element of it that makes it more personal. Combine it with the “purpose” that it seeks to achieve – CAMP was critical in reinforcing the idea of wanting to be a part of the system and help nurture a better case resolution mechanism.

     

    Please give our readers some insights into the functioning of Policy Law firm.

    (Ishana has worked with two of India’s most reputed firms in policy law- The Centre for Policy and Research, Bangalore and Vidhi Centre for Legal Policy, Delhi.)

    With Vidhi, I worked on a project that studied the efficacy of court-annexed programmes. Here, we studied four centres in India and where there were issues and fallouts. The hope remains that the recommendations are picked up and a change in implementation of mediation is envisioned by the law makers and the judiciary.

    With CLPR, was a project on civic citizenship and constitutional law. This was uncharted territory, since my knowledge of constitutional law was basic and text book. CLPR was spearheading a project that would culminate into a database of the constituent assembly debates that led to the framing of our constitution. I worked on the first phase which was focused on the fundamental rights and directive principles.  The project involved reading through days of debates and coding them in a prescribed format which would then be fed into an algorithm where people could search (like Google).

    It was amazing to learn and unlearn the pre-conceived notions of our rights and in a way get to know the people who fought / argued/ reasoned / shaped the future of individual and social rights in this country. To everyone who reads this, I am shamelessly asking you to check out the CLPR website for the CAD page! It will be worth the effort! The hope is that one day it would reach the common man for general awareness.

     

    When and why did you decide to leave your job at JSA?

    It was in April 2017 that I decided to leave JSA. I believe it was the right time in my profession to pursue a higher education in law with the Erasmus Mundus programme.  

     

    Is there any other suggestion you would like to give to our budding lawyers?

    You just have to have the dedication and maintain a standard and drive for yourself.  The day you can’t give your 100% to something – it could be even proofreading ten lines on a matter, then its time to find something else. Demotivation in life is the worst thing you could do to yourself and the person whom you represent – who deserves your dedication, time, thought and places their faith in ‘you’ not anyone else to guide them right.  So if you ever find yourself in a situation where you say “have to” more than ten times a day, move on. It is a disservice to yourself and your colleagues if you choose to continue in the same state of mind.

    As a parting thought, never take any work opportunity and position in life for granted. Moreover, to me work-life balance is a myth. Never take on a task with the purpose of attain this. It is work that has shaped my personality, increased my capacity to question and broaden thoughts. It is practice that has indulged a love of studying the law.  The sooner you accept the importance of work in your life the easier your journey in law becomes!

  • Pratik Tayal, IAS Officer, on cracking the UPSC, and achieving AIR 92

    Pratik Tayal, IAS Officer, on cracking the UPSC, and achieving AIR 92

    Pratik Tayal graduated from National Law University, Delhi in 2016. Right after graduation, he appeared for the Union Public Service Commission Examination and secured an All India Rank of 92 in his first attempt. He is the all India topper in civil services with law optional. He also secured the highest marks in GS IV Ethics Paper. During his law school days, he participated in various international moot court and client counseling competitions.

    In this interview, he talks about:

    • His experience as a law student at the National Law University, Delhi.
    • His strategy for the preparation of the Civil Services Examination.
    • Advice to prospective law students aiming to make a career in Civil Services.

    How would you like to introduce yourself to the readers? 

    I was born in Dehradun and brought up in Delhi. I have done my schooling from The Banyan Tree School, Lodi Road where I was an academically inclined student who was engaged in many extra-curricular activities and also served as the Vice Head Boy. I completed my law degree from National Law University, Delhi. As regards my background, my father and brother are in the civil services and my mother is an entrepreneur.   

     

    Why did you opt for the field of law? 

    My decision to pursue law was borne of an interest that I developed in the subject. I came across the Constitution and other law books during class XI, which stimulated my interest in this field. I do not have any legal background in my family.

     

    How did a law school education in NLU help you in achieving your dream?

    Law school has an impact on one’s personality, in both direct and indirect ways. The curriculum and pedagogy helps you to broaden your horizons and ponder over societal issues; an emphasis on extra-curricular activities ensures a brilliant exchange of ideas; and staying in a multicultural environment with people from different backgrounds enhances your sensibilities and your appreciation of diversity. At the same time, law school presents different challenges for different people, which at the time may be daunting, but eventually help you introspect and become a stronger individual.

    Having learnt and benefited from these experiences, I was also fortunate to have had a batch full of achievers, from whom I could learn a lot. The atmosphere of excellence shaped me to become serious in life, helped me to develop a goals based attitude towards work, to be focused, ambitious and determined, and most importantly, it taught me the value of hard work.

     

    Did you focus only on the academics in college life? 

    Since my elder brother had been selected for the Indian Police Service in 2011, I was fairly determined about preparing for the UPSC exam. I tried to balance both academics and preparation throughout, with the balance shifting in either direction at different times. In NLU Delhi, the work load is reasonable. It can be managed along with preparation. The pressure, similar to other things in life, depends on how much you want to take on.   

     

    What extra-curricular activities did you take part in that helped you in overall development?   

    A lawyer, I was once told, has to master two aspects of his profession: advocacy and client counselling. With this in mind, I tried my hand at mooting and client consultation competitions during law school and these experiences helped me immensely. In mooting, I represented my college in the Oxford IPR Moot Court Competition in 2014. Mooting, as an activity, helps in developing the ability to structure things well, to study a topic from different dimensions, and to be able to effectively answer questions – all of which is extremely advantageous in CSE. In client counselling, I represented India in the Louis M Brown Client Consultation Competition in Nebraska, USA. This experience helped me hone my abilities to appreciate the problem, evaluate different options effectively, and to come up with innovative solutions on the spot. These qualities are important as an administrator and are also tested in GS paper IV (Ethics) in CSE.

    Apart from these two activities that I treasure, I was involved in other pursuits such as research publications, projects, cricket, etc.

     

    Please tell us about the places you’ve interned at and whether these were all planned or happened on the go?

    I sought to gather wide ranging experiences through my internships. Some experiences were planned while some happened due to opportunities available in the college. I was involved in an RTI internship in DoPT, in UNDP, in NHRC, under a criminal lawyer and in AMSS. Internships are one of the most enriching experiences for a law student. Not only do they help in gaining theoretical and practical knowledge and myriad other benefits, they also, as happened in my case, help to explore uncharted territories and to conclusively decide upon the career path one wishes to follow after law school. Therefore, I would sincerely recommend everyone to not miss out on chances of experiencing different work environments, even if you’ve decided on civil services as your dream career. These will help definitely you understand and appreciate the surroundings better. 

     

    Did you not get tempted by fancy corporate jobs?

    I don’t believe corporate jobs are a temptation per se. It all depends on what one wants to do and what interests as a calling and professional pursuit. I have always wanted to work for public welfare and contribute to the interface between administration and the public, and I believe that the best possible way in which I can do this is as a civil servant.   

     

    When did you start preparing for the civil services? 

    I have been intermittently preparing since my second year for this exam. However, my intensive preparation began from my fourth year of law school i.e. 2015, during which time I left my college hostel and became a day scholar.   

     

    How did you start preparing for the Civil services Exam? 

    I began my preparation by studying, and researching on, previous papers thoroughly. I believe that, to prepare for Civil Services, given the vastness of its syllabus, it is more important to know ‘what not to study’ than to know what to study. Therefore, past year papers should be used to understand the expectations of this exam and then prepare accordingly. As regards coaching, I do not think that it is a prerequisite to this exam. I, for instance, did not take any formal coaching from any institute. However, guidance or the right direction is essential and that is something which is difficult to get. While coaching may help in this, it can be substituted by learning from peers, selected candidates, topper interviews and from sites like mrunal.org. Coaching has its benefits in material and momentum, while its disadvantages include loss of autonomy in your preparation since you are have to compromise your approach to accommodate their schedule.   

     

    What was the routine you followed everyday throughout the course of your preparation?

    I firmly believe that preparation for this exam is a job in itself and therefore, tried to spend eight hours a day on it, like any other job would require me to do. Beginning from January, 2015, on a usual working day, I would try to get up at 6, study for a bit, commute to and fro college, and resume studying by 12 noon to finally sleep by 11 PM.   

     

    What was your optional subject?  

    My optional was law.

     

    Do you think law students might have an edge while preparing for the UPSC exam?

    Law has a significant overlap with the GS syllabus, especially GS paper 2 and 4. However, subject overlap is not the ‘edge’ law students get, I would say. The edge we get is that we have an orientation towards policies and social issues and develop a knack of examining issues from different perspectives. So, while law makes the syllabus easier; law school makes the preparation easier. 

     

    What did you do to keep yourself motivated all the time during the course of preparation?

    One of the most difficult questions to answer.  Preparation can become overwhelming at times, where one has to be battling with failure, uncertainty, and monotony. To add to this, the cycle of the exam itself is of one year, which raises the stakes for a person. To remain motivated, one needs to have an inner drive and a clear sense of reason as to why he/she wants to be a part of civil services. One additional thing that kept me motivated and helped me to continue studying was the idea that I should not have regrets after the exam about my lack of efforts.    

     

    Could you please give some tips to those aspirants who are preparing for this exam? 

    The preparation can be divided into four phases: reading, understanding, retaining and reproducing. Emphasis should be given on each one of them separately. The idea should not be to complete the source books as have been recommended, but to understand the concept holistically. Therefore one can be innovative with the sources. Secondly, having understood the concept, it is important to put an extra effort in memorizing which can be done through notes, discussion with peers, etc. Most importantly, it is important to work on answer writing since content alone with not make it possible to score well in the Civil Services Exam. Therefore, devoting time on this aspect is as important as all others combined. Lastly and most importantly, it is important to refer to the past year papers continuously to build an orientation towards the exam and then prepare accordingly.

     

    Could you tell us in brief what are the skills required to crack prelims and mains exams?

    This exam requires a skill set which is beyond just intelligence. There is a need for emotional intelligence where one is able to identify and manage his emotions. There is a need for introspection and self-awareness where one is able to identify one’s strengths and weaknesses and work upon them. There is a need for humility, which allows you to learn from everyone as everybody has something to offer. Consistency, hardwork, dedication and a drive and passion for this exam are important virtues. For prelims, the ability of calculated guess work is one of the most important skills that can be developed, and can be done through practicing of questions. For Mains, the skill of brevity and clarity of thought should be honed.

     

    How should a law student approach Interview for the Civil Services Exam?

    Owing to the exposure a law student gets in terms of an ability to formulate and articulate arguments, interview is a relatively easy stage in the whole process. In my experience, my interview entirely revolved around the subject of law. More often than not, the interview does have a component of questioning on the field of one’s graduation, which is done to generally test a student’s general understanding and sincerity towards a thing that he/she was involved in for five years. Therefore, it would be prudent to a) study law well in the five years or b) brush it up before the interview. Apart from that, I think the biggest tip would be to stay calm throughout the process. It reflects on your composure, mental strength and ability to tackle difficult situations – traits that are important for a civil servant.

     

    What is your experience in preparing for civil services?

    It is a test of one’s temperament, as I already have mentioned. My journey was enriching and made me more knowledgeable, wiser, empathetic and, all in all, a stronger individual. This journey will always be a cherished experience.

     

    What would your message be to law students who want to pursue their career in the field of Civil Services?

    I firmly believe that there is no formula or one particular way of preparing for this exam. Just have confidence in your abilities and formulate your own strategy keeping in mind your strengths and weaknesses. You can, and should be, innovative in your preparation. Lastly, there is no substitute for hard work which this exam has a keen eye for and consequently, rewards it commensurately.

  • M.S. Bharath, Senior Partner, Anand and Anand, on the Indian IPR regime, and his diverse experience

    M.S. Bharath, Senior Partner, Anand and Anand, on the Indian IPR regime, and his diverse experience

    M.S. Bharath graduated in law from Pune University, batch of 2001. Bharath is a Senior Partner at Anand and Anand, India leads the Chennai City Office practice since June 2009. His practice includes Intellectual Property litigation before Indian High Courts, opposition, cancellation and other related proceedings before the Trademark Office, Intellectual Property Appellate Board (IPAB), Copyright Board and Geographical Indications Office. He has been the lead counsel in numerous appeals, rectification and original proceedings before the High Courts of New Delhi, Chennai and IPAB with several reported decisions to his credentials.

    In this interview, we speak to him about:

    • His time at law school
    • His role at Anand and Anand
    • His experience in IPR

    How would you like to introduce yourself to our readers?

    I am an intellectual property lawyer and a Senior Partner in Anand and Anand based in Chennai.

     

    Tell us a little about your days in law school.

    The days in law school (in Pune) gave me a hands on experience and exposure to diversity in culture, inclusiveness, collaboration and leadership. For want of hostels, we had to fend for ourselves including arranging for accommodation (which were in the 1990’s either homestays or apartments shared by at least eight to ten individuals), food (either by hiring a common cook or eat out from dhabas) transport and working on budgets. The absence of a structured placement cell compelled us to be innovative to raise monies, collate resumes of those who were interested, design and print a brochure, visit firms across the country to brand the institution and seek placements of the students as well.  Spearheading this initiative helped me gain operational skills but also with much needed exposure to the legal market and understanding of the differences in expectations and work cultures in cities such Bombay, Delhi, Madras, Calcutta and Bangalore as they were known back then.

     

    How important are grades, in your opinion?

    While grades are important they are definitely not critical. Most lawyers and firms seek law graduates who are committed, hardworking and above all uncompromising on integrity while grades as GPA’s are incidental.  I sincerely hope that students aspiring for a legal career do not seek out only for chances of landing jobs in top firms, as any firm one joins or sets up may soon be one.

     

    What subjects did you take particular interest in during your law school days?

    As a law student, Jurisprudence and Procedure Codes were quite appealing to me. While these subjects were not decisive in my career choice, they are  indeed the Grund Norm for daily practice.

     

    Who was your mentor, or main source of inspiration who motivated you all along the way?

    Personally speaking, there can never be just one mentor for an individual for it is likely to take away one’s individuality. I have had many individuals who have inspired me over the years including my father Mr. Subramanian, my late grand uncle Mr. Raghavan, both lawyers and my grandfather Ananthasubramanian who sowed the seeds of grit, independence, integrity, contentment, honesty; my wife Kavita who brought out the extrovert in me; Mr. Anand our Managing partner who continues to share his “Never say die” and “Never say never” attitudes, client handling abilities and vast wealth of IP knowledge; a dear friend and colleague Shamnad Basheer for getting me on board the IP world through Anand and Anand and inspiring many including me to care and share with initiatives such as IDIA (Increasing Diversity by Increasing Access). In fact I find inspirations even from interns and colleagues who bring new ideas and ideologies to the working table.

     

    What kind of internships did you engage in during your student years which you feel were invaluable to you in reaching your current position?

    It is important that as a student, one identifies their favourite subject and aspirational senior / firm / organisation early on to seek and undertake an internship. This helps both the student and the employer know each other on many levels. I was lucky to undertake an internship in Anand and Anand in the penultimate summer of my law degree. The month long program led to a pre-placement offer and next sixteen wonderful years here.

     

    How did you develop this keen interest in Intellectual Property Rights Law?

    The zeal to learn new subject and remain a multi disciplinarian drew me towards intellectual property laws. The profession of IP attorney is possibly the only one which touches upon varied subjects of law, arts, science and commerce and in some rare cases all at once. The graduation in commerce prior to law helped me blend in easier.

     

    What kind of activities did you undertake in law school that helped you nurture this interest in IPR law?

    It was the internship at Anand and Anand which gave me an insight into the world of IPR which am still discovering and exploring after sixteen years. Back in the day we hardly had exciting activities on campus unlike now to nurture interests in IPR.

     

    Would attending IPR conferences hold any CV value, or would you recommend them anyway for their academic value?

    It is easy to get lost in the host of conferences, which are being organised on IPR related subjects. Of late there are so many, that even practitioners find it difficult to pick the right one or to let go. It is best to seek guidance from seasoned practitioners on which ones are relevant to attend as a student or young practitioner. In any case, while attendance at these conferences may be of academic value it would not have much impact on CV!

     

    Please give our readers some insights on the leading Indian firms dealing in IPR law, and your recommendations for where and how to secure internships.

    There are quite a number of top quality IPR law firms in India currently, with most based in the cities of New Delhi, Mumbai, Chennai and Bangalore. It would be inappropriate to name only some.

    While most of these firms over the years have gained reputation on one or few verticals within the IPR regime, say trademarks or patents drafting or prosecution or IP Enforcement, there are only a few which are quite interestingly known as “Full service IP firm” excelling in all forms of IP and all forms of prosecution and enforcement. Choosing a firm to intern with is critical and ought not to be done for the sake of merely adding on to resume. Depending on one’s leaning and flair for a subject, firms have to be identified and applications for internship are to be sent in early on.

    In the recent past I increasingly notice students sending requests for being connected on social media such as Linked In and immediately follow up with requests for internship. Such tools are not only easier for students to better understand the organisation and the individual with whom they seek internship but also build a rapport even prior to the internship program.

    Despite all these initiatives, one needs to be lucky, and being lucky according to me is meeting of Preparedness and Opportunity. A person would not be lucky if despite being having an opportunity is not prepared to take it further ahead.

     

    Tell us about your work experience at Anand & Anand where you currently are a Senior Partner.

    Starting as an intern in 2000, last year I was invited to be a part of our firm’s Council of Senior partners. Early on as a trademarks attorney, I assisted in setting up the firm’s practice before the IP Appeal Board. After several appearances before the Trademark office and Appeal Board, I turned to be a litigator as well. Ever since moving to Chennai in 2009, the city office practice has blossomed well with a current strength of over fifteen members.

     

    What do leading firms that specialise in IPR such as Anand & Anand look for in prospective candidates for internships, retainerships or recruitment?

    While the love and flair for the subject is a given requisite, we look for candidates who innately put clients’ interests above all and work with high commitment, vigour, and ownership without compromise on integrity. As internship programs help us identify prospects, it is easy to differentiate those who come in only for adding claims on their CV and those who have the IP fire in the belly and eagerness to join us.

     

    Do you believe in the conception that there is manifest reluctance among law graduates to take up IPR law as there is a scarcity of job opportunities in this area of practice?

    Quite the contrary! With the boom in innovation, manufacturing and consumption in India, the need for IP attorney has gained significant importance and their need is sure to increase in the times to come. The IP field and as an industry has been steadily growing if not exploding in India recently. While there are quite a few IPR boutique firms which have blossomed recently, the Indian and multi-national corporations have also been busy setting up in house IP cells and departments, resulting in need for many IP hands at work.

     

    Do you feel that there are shortcomings in Indian IPR law that make the practice itself difficult? 

    Every country legislates laws suitable to its own historic, social, economic background each of which undergo change with passage of time. Indian IPR Laws are no different and are quite unique to the land. Practice of these laws and succeeding in it would directly depend on one’s ability to identify practical solutions to clients’ problems within the limits of these laws. There are no short-comings in either the Indian IPR laws or their practice. Innovation is key especially in practice of IPR law. We at Anand and Anand take pride in always staying ahead of the curve to come out innovative solutions to clients. For example one of the largest brewing companies was facing severe waste of resources, as they were one of the few players in the industry to introduce fresh bottles into the commercial stream. As beer bottles are a commodity which are recycled, other players were reaping the benefit of sourcing such bottles from recyclers without having to invest in fresh ones. A simple solution suggested by us of introducing distinctive bottle designs with the brand names embossed on it gave a two layered protection both under designs and trademarks, saving large sums of monies to the client.

     

    Is it necessary to have a background in General Sciences in order to pursue IPR studies?

    Not at all, though having a science background is indeed a great advantage. Science and Commerce are the Yin and Yang of IP. It is a rarity to find those who understand both the streams well but it is in the intersection of these two subjects where the hearts of IP and its practice reside.

     

    What moots would you recommend for an IPR law enthusiast to further their interest and what journals would you recommend for someone who’s hoping to get their work published?

    India’s first and most prestigious moot court competition on IPR is Raj Anand Intellectual Property Moot Court, which has had fifteen editions. It is considered the epitome of IPR moots and is a must attend to get a flavour of India’s best competitors mooting on the best IPR problems before the best judges, who are India’s leading IP practitioners and sitting judges of Indian Courts. More information on this can be found at http://ipmoot.org. I would encourage students to publish their work firstly in their own college journals and thereafter reach out to other prominent journals such as PTC (Patent and Trademarks Cases) MIPR (Manupatra IP Reports) which encourage and receive submissions from laws students and scholars. Spicy IP, the popular IP Blog founded by Shamnad also encourages students to be part of their eco system and community to present views and publish works as well.

    What general advice would you give our readers who aspire to stay at the top of their IP game?

    An IP lawyer advising clients on a variety of IP subjects has to necessarily understand their client’s business and commercial standing for each of the subject matters. While standing in their client’s shoes an IP attorney needs to have a perspective of subjects including accounting, statistics, finance, marketing, and advertising. Even if one is not a commerce or a science student there is a much needed foundation for an IP attorney to understand the panorama of how a business is run. To stay ahead of the curve think like a lawyer, science student, commerce student all at once while acting like a business woman / man!

  • Sarosh Zaiwalla, Senior Partner, Zaiwalla & Co. Solicitors, on International Arbitration, working with His Holiness the Dalai Lama, and his diverse experience

    Sarosh Zaiwalla, Senior Partner, Zaiwalla & Co. Solicitors, on International Arbitration, working with His Holiness the Dalai Lama, and his diverse experience

    Sarosh Zaiwalla graduated from Government Law College in 1972. He founded Zaiwalla & Co. Solicitors in April 1982. He oversees all the activities relating to the firm, and also sits as an International Arbitrator. He is the Senior Partner of Zaiwalla & Co Solicitors which has been in the City of London for the past 35 years. His firm successfully acted for the Iranian private bank, Bank Mellat, both before the Supreme Court and the EU Court challenging the listing of bank under Iran Nuclear Sanctions. As a consequence of his firm’s success, Bank Mellat today have a claim of USD 4 billion before the English Court in respect of damages for losses caused because of unlawful listing. His firm were also the first firm which successfully challenged in the EU Court the listing of Iranian companies by EU Council. Zaiwalla & Co have acted for several Iranian companies including Bank Tejarat and Petropars.

    In this interview we speak to him about:

    • His illustrious career
    • Setting up practice in the UK
    • His experience with high profile cases

    Given that most of our readers are law students, how would you introduce yourself to them?

    I founded Zaiwalla & Co. Solicitors in London which is the first English Solicitors firm in the one square mile commercial and financial district in the city of London started by a solicitor born outside Europe. We have been in existence for 36 years and at our 30th anniversary reception in November 2012, the Chief Guest, Rt. Hon. Sir Dominic Grieves MP in his speech said that what my firm had achieved in the development of English law will be remembered even after 100 years. There are today 104 reported judgments in the English law reports where my firm had acted for one of the parties. A judgment is only reported in the law reports if it affects the development of law. We are today one of the leading firms in the field of International Arbitration.

     

    What motivated you to pursue a career in the legal field?

    As a young student in St. Xavier’s High School, Bombay, my career ambition was to join politics and become the Prime Minister of India so that I could change India and make it great again. My father was a solicitor who had qualified in London in 1925. He was the youngest member of his family and as the youngest member of my family, I was encouraged to qualify as a solicitor in London.

     

    What got you interested in the field of International Arbitration? 

    I did my Solicitors training in an English Solicitors firm called Stocken & Co. who were maritime lawyers and specialised in maritime arbitrations. This gave me the first exposure to international maritime Arbitrations. In those years a Solicitors training was not on a structured basis like it is now and one would start as an assistant to a Senior Solicitor, at first carrying his bags and making cups of tea for him and then later being trained on the job.

     

    Can you briefly describe your current role as an Arbitrator and an Advisor to clients involved in international arbitrations?

    As the world got smaller, international trade between businessmen from various countries grew. International businessmen want a neutral country to settle their disputes and would therefore opt for Arbitration in a neutral venue with a respectable legal infrastructure. This would normally be London where Arbitration in its modern form, was given birth to, over 300 years ago. In the City of London all the fixtures for ocean going vessels to carry cargo were agreed at the Baltic Exchange. The Baltic Exchange used to be the centre of all shipping chartering contracts all over the world. Whenever a dispute arose as to what was agreed between the brokers, the owners and the charterers, they would at the end of the day ask a senior respectable broker to determine the dispute over a cup of tea.

    This was the beginning of international Arbitration in London. International Arbitration has now grown in a sophisticated fashion and it is also a serious foreign exchange earner for the country where the seat of the Arbitration is located. This is because the seat has no other connection to the parties in the Arbitration who have chosen the seat of the Arbitration but the parties have to instruct for example, English Solicitors for London Arbitrations and also spend on experts, Barristers, hotels and other expenses. As a firm of Solicitors we have recently been consulted by the Russian Government in respect of a potential challenge to USD 50 billion Arbitration award against Russia by the International Arbitration Court in The Hague.

    As an Arbitrator, I recently sat for two weeks in Tel Aviv, Israel, as a Sole Arbitrator to decide a multi-million dollar dispute. I have also sat as an Arbitrator in Bombay with Sir Anthony Evans and Harish Salve to decide an international Arbitration dispute concerning a power plant in South India.

     

    International Arbitration often involves a complex interplay of public and private international law. Can you elaborate on this aspect for our readers?

    This is correct because in international Arbitrations there can be three countries which can play a part. For example, in a contract between say an Indian party and a United States party where the contract provides for disputes to be settled in London, Indian law, US law and English law could all have a part to play. Usually, if the contract provides for Arbitration in a neutral venue as the seat of the Arbitration, say London, then there is a presumption that the parties intend English law to apply to the contract. There was a case which I handled earlier for ISRO of India in respect of an Arbitration claim brought by McDonnell Douglas concerning Satellite inset 1B. The Arbitration provided for London as a seat of Arbitration but with the Indian Arbitration Act to apply. The English Court held that by this term, only the procedural aspect would apply to the Arbitration but on the main issues English law would apply. See Union of India v. McDonnell Douglas Corporation [1993] 2 Lloyd’s Rep. 48 In another shipping case, the contract was governed by English law with the seat of Arbitration being London, but the English High Court held that in construing its term in the contract, as the performance of the term was to be India, Indian law would apply. This was the case of a vessel called “Nestor” which is reported at [1987] 2 Lloyds Rep. 649. In both of these cases my firm had acted for the Indian parties.

     

    What are your views on the necessity of higher education? 

    Education, including higher education, instructs a student but life experiences educate a student. Higher education is of course of utmost importance because it readily opens doors for good employment or starting ones practice. Higher education is a certificate of competence and knowledge. I have however found that many Oxford and Cambridge educated lawyers were no match for a lawyer with good instincts and wisdom. My advice to your readers would be to go for opportunities available to pursue higher education, it can only do good.

     

    What was your first job out of law school?

    My first job out of law school was an evening job with the Hinduja brothers at their company Sangam Ltd. I had met GP and SP Hinduja when I was still training at Stocken & Co. and they asked me to join their employment. They had just moved from Tehran to London. I said I did not want to take a job and I wanted to have my own practice after I was enrolled as a Solicitor. So the Hinduja brothers offered me an evening job from 6:30pm – 9:30pm. I had an arrangement with Stocken & Co that if I travel for them overseas, Stocken & Co would bill the Hinduja brothers. This was a great opportunity for me because in one year I travelled 42 times to Geneva with the Hinduja brothers and their right hand Mr. Golikeri. I was part of the team which negotiated contract with top lawyers on the other side and although I was not qualified I acted as Hinduja brothers’ unqualified legal adviser, interpreter and negotiator.

    When I started on my own I was fortunate to be appointed as the Indian High Commission in London’s Solicitor. At that time the High Commissioner was Dr. Syed Mohammed who was himself an ex-English Barrister and he had been the Advocate General of Kerala and Minister of State for Law and Justice in Indira Gandhi’s Government. He was thrilled to see a young Parsee Indian starting a law firm in the City of London keeping his Indian surname.

     

    What motivated you to start Zaiwalla and Co. Solicitors?

    When I was working at Stockens I became friendly with Cedric Barclay who was an eminent and popular maritime Arbitrator. I got to know him and a few months before I was enrolled as a Solicitor, he invited me for a cup of tea at his office. In the course of our conversation over tea, he strongly advised me not to join the big English Solicitors firms. He said, “You are good and well liked, but if you join a large English maritime firm, the Senior Partner will take you for lunch once a year and say, “Good job, old boy”, but you will go no higher.” So he advised me strongly to start on my own. True to his word, when I started Zaiwalla & Co., he personally took me to the offices of big ship owners to introduce me and recommend me to them. Very soon I had a reasonably large Greek ship owning clientele.

    Surprisingly, when I started I did not face any major hurdles with the white professional population. They were somewhat surprised to see a brown face but they were more than encouraging. Appearing before the English Commercial Court Judges was a very favourable experience. The Judges would make sure that I was comfortable and go out of their way to ensure that they had fully understood my client’s case. In a way, I found myself sometimes in a more advantageous situation then the white contemporaries in Court. In due course the word went around and the client base started to build and within five or six years I had 23 lawyers working in my firm and at that stage Zaiwalla & Co. was mainly an international Arbitration firm doing maritime Arbitrations and litigation which was mainly for Indian Government cases in the English Court.

     

    You have represented major clients including governments. How have you developed and maintained a client base?

    It is hard work to maintain a client base. An essential ingredient for this purpose is to keep in constant contact with the client. What a client expects from a lawyer is integrity, competence and speed. I made sure that I provided all three of these to our clients.

     

    What are the qualities one needs to develop to become a successful arbitrator? 

    (Sarosh has been appointed as an Arbitrator in a number of multi- million dollar disputes.)

    An Arbitrators task is very different from the task of a lawyer. I have always been a creative lawyer and I believe in the principle that “law is for justice and not justice for law”. My firm and I have built up a reputation of being creative on issues of law. As a lawyer I can put forward a creative proposition of law to fit the facts and it would be for the Judge or the Arbitrator to decide whether there was any value in such a proposition. However, as an Arbitrator it is for me to make sure that I get it right and live up to the trust which the parties had placed in me to give a correct decision. There are times when I am one of the three members of the Arbitration Tribunal. In that case usually the Chairman who is the third Arbitrator prepares the first draft of the Tribunals award. Many times I have sat as a Sole Arbitrator for multi-million dollar disputes and such cases require a lot of thinking in arriving at my decision which is not very easy. The most important quality to be an Arbitrator is integrity and commercial common sense. An Arbitrator is a Judge who is appointed by the private party whereas a Judge is appointed by the state. Recently, there was a case in the UK Supreme Court (Hashwani v Jivraj) which my firm had handled where the issue was whether an Arbitrator is an employee of the parties. The English Court of Appeal said yes an Arbitrator is an employee of the parties but the UK Supreme Court reversed their decision and held that an Arbitrator is not an employee and he perform the same function as a Judge.

     

    Can you tell our readers about the nature of maritime disputes and how they are unique?

    A substantial part of the international trade of goods and commodities takes place by transporting of those goods by ocean going vessels. In the course of the voyage, often goods get damaged because of dampness in the vessels hold or seepage of sea water in the hold. The other types of dispute which generally arises relates to charter party disputes which includes demurrage disputes, bill of lading disputes, General Average and collision at sea disputes. I have had the privilege of handling all of these types of disputes. India’s first success in the House of Lords in a commercial case concerned the vessel called La Pintada. In this case the charterer was the President of India and he paid demurrage some two years late. The owners of the vessel commenced Arbitration claiming interest on a three month compounded rate basis arguing that they had lost the use of money by the delayed payment. The Arbitrator made an award of compound interest in onus favour. The High Court sent the award back to the Arbitrator for reconsideration on the basis that the award sought to make charterer an involuntary banker. The Arbitrator once again confirmed the award which he had previously made. When Indian Government challenged the award once again in the Commercial Court, the Court referred it straight to the Supreme Court for decision. The House of Lords unanimously decided in Indian Government’s favour. This was a test case because in those years of foreign exchange crisis, Indian Government always paid freight and demurrage late and if India had lost in the House of Lords, they would have had to have paid over £5 million in compound interest because other ship owners would then be claiming compound interest for late payment. Incidentally in this case, the Barrister my firm had instructed was Tony Blair who later on went on to become the Prime Minister of the UK. Please see 1983 1 Lloyds page 39.

     

    Can you give our readers some insight into the Tibet dispute as well as the efforts being undertaken to resolve it? 

    (Sarosh was appointed by His Holiness the Dalai Lama to mediate with the Chinese government in order to resolve the Tibet dispute.)

    I am a qualified CEDR (Centre for International Dispute Resolution) Mediator. For many years my firm acted for PRC Government in their international Arbitration cases. My firm had an office in Beijing for twelve years. We represented CNPC, CPECC, CPTDC and Min Metals in five major international Arbitrations. Chinese Embassy had heard about my firms successes for Indian Government and the then Chinese Ambassador in 1991 had a meeting with me and asked me to assist China to set up in China a legal system which could work internationally. The Embassy sponsored a trip for me to visit Beijing in December 1991. In 1994, I facilitated a second channel dialogue between 10 Downing Street and the central committee of Chinese communist party on misunderstanding which had arisen concerning the agreement to hand over Hong Kong to China. This was a successful dialogue. Thereafter, my relations with Chinese Government became very friendly and my firm got a lot of legal work from Chinese state corporations.

    A few years later, Mrs. Takla, the representative of Dalai Lama contacted me.  She told me that Dalai Lama was going to visit Glasgow very soon and he would like to meet me. Accordingly, a private meeting was arranged for me in Glasgow with Dalai Lama. I was told by Mrs Takla that Dalai Lama would like me to facilitate a second channel dialogue with China to resolve the dispute between him and China relating to Tibet as he would like to go back to his home, Tibet.

    I informed the Chinese Ambassador about the Dalai Lama’s request for a meeting and before meeting Dalai Lama I had a meeting with the Chinese Ambassador in London. The Ambassador put forward China’s position and told me that one of the things which concerned China was that Dalai Lama was writing forwards to books written where the author claimed that half of China was Tibet. It was a great pleasure and honour to meet Dalai Lama on a one to one basis. I found him to be very frank and honest. He told me that his intelligence had told him that I was one non-Chinese person in the West whom the PRC Government had complete trust and confidence. He sought my help for a second channel dialogue to resolve the Tibet issue.  I told him that China was concerned about his writing forwards to books which claimed half of China was Tibet. Dalai Lama’s response was that he had no option but to do this because his Tibetan people had lived in those parts of China for centuries and it was historically part of Tibet. In a moving gesture, Dalai Lama took my hand and put it on his heart and said, “I trust you”.

    After my meeting with Dalai Lama I had a meeting with the Chinese Ambassador and told him that it would be in China’s interest to resolve the issue with Dalai Lama as he was no longer claiming independence for Tibet. Furthermore , I was aware of the communist Chinas policy towards religion which was that religion was now being permitted provided it was not controlled from outside China. In Dalai Lama’s case, he would be involved in religion from Lahasa, the capital of Tibet which was now part of China. The Ambassador told me that he would communicate his discussion with me to China. A further meeting was arranged between me and the Chinese representative and I was told that the Dalai Lama’s brother had been invited to China for discussion and there was no need for a second channel to take place through me.

     

    Can you tell our readers about the process of framing arguments and the experience of arguing before the EU court?

    (Sarosh’s was the first firm to successfully challenge the listing of Iranian companies under Iranian Nuclear Sanctions before the EU court.)

    This is correct. Bank Mellat which was Iran’s largest private bank, had challenged the sanctions in the High Court and had lost. Thereafter, Bank Mellat appealed and the Court dismissed the appeal. Bank Mellat’s former Solicitors, Stephenson Harwood, had told Bank Mellat that there was little prospect of Bank Mellat getting leave to appeal from the Supreme Court. I was one of the Solicitors Bank Mellat met with a view to deciding who to instruct for their attempt to appeal to the Supreme Court. I had earlier acted in a major Arbitration for National Iranian Oil Company (NIOC) and had turned around what they had been advised was a hopeless defence in an Arbitration case and was successful for NIOC. So the legal director of NIOC had mentioned my name to Bank Mellat and recommended my firm. The rest is history, we were successful before nine out of the total twelve Judges of the UK Supreme Court. The Supreme Court held that the UK Government had acted unlawfully and irrationally to list Bank Mellat in the list of companies supporting Iran’s nuclear proliferation and to whom the sanctions would apply.

    The Supreme Court referred the matter to the High Court to calculate damages and Bank Mellat is currently pursuing a claim of USD 4 billion for damages in the UK Court for wrongful listing of Bank Mellat on the nuclear sanctions list. It was also the first time that the UK Supreme Court went into a closed, secret hearing on grounds of national security. The trial of this claim is fixed by the English Court for October 2018.

     

    You are a member of all major arbitration institutions. What is your preferred forum? 

    My preferred forum for international Arbitration is either London Court for International Arbitration (LCIA) or International Court of Arbitration of the International Chamber of Commerce, Paris (ICC). I was a member of the International Court of Arbitration for twelve years representing India. An equally efficient forum and possibly less expensive would be for parties to simply agree London as a seat of Arbitration as this would save the administrative costs of the institutions and the Arbitration would be under direct supervision of the English Court in case something goes wrong in the Arbitration.

     

    Do you think India has the potential to become a major arbitration hub? 

    Yes, India has great potential to become a major international Arbitration hub but India has a long way to go to achieve this goal. A small country like Singapore has within a few years built up a popular international Arbitration centre and there is no reason why India cannot do so. The international centres of Arbitrations are made by good reputation and law. Reputation is a question of perception. Arbitration in India today does not enjoy a good international reputation. There are rumours of corruption amongst the Arbitrators. I am sure this rumour is unlikely to be true but one must recognise that even one case of corruption poisons the reputation of the whole Arbitration culture in India. I have had many meetings with those who manage international Arbitration in India, including with Mr Arun Jaitley and at each of these meetings I have said that the risk of corruption in the international Arbitration in India cannot be eradicated by passing of law eradicated by self-regulation in the Arbitrators community and the legal profession. Another minus point for international Arbitration in India is the perceived monopoly appointment of retired Judges who then conduct the Arbitration as if it was Court proceedings with adjournments being granted for asking. The new Indian Arbitration Act has restricted Court intervention in the Arbitration process which is a good step forward for India.

     

    International Arbitration is considered a difficult field to break into. Can you describe your journey in becoming such an authority in this field? 

    This is correct. So far, the international Arbitrators community has been an elite circle where one supports the other with the consequence that a newcomer is not easily accepted unless he blends in by accepting to begin with a second class status. The selection of Arbitrator is an important task. He should be a person with good legal and commercial law experience. The task of a party appointed Arbitrator is not to favour his appointer but he has a duty to ensure that his appointer’s points are considered by the whole Tribunal at the time of making the decision. I have found that many times, Indian parties appoint retired Judges in the international Arbitration and they are indeed very clever but they are not able to communicate with the co-Arbitrators properly, who are normally from developed countries. Often, retired Indian Judges who are product of the British imperialist culture, have enormous egos about their status. Let me give one example.

    I was appointed by the Danish company Volund to be their nominated Arbitrator in the early 90’s. The Arbitration concerned construction of a power plant in Timarpur near Delhi whose fuel would be New Delhi waste. In other words, the power plant would be converting New Delhi waste into energy. The project was supported by Danish aid agency (DANIDA). After the power plant was constructed, it was found that New Delhi waste did not have sufficient calorific heat to be used as fuel for the power plant. India appointed Mr Pathak as their Arbitrator. He was a former Chief Justice of India and retired Judge of the international Court of Justice in The Hague. The third Arbitrator and the Chairman of the Tribunal was Lord McKenzie Stuart, a former Chief Justice of the European Court. He was appointed by the International Court of Arbitration.

    On the first day of the hearing I got a note passed to me by Chief Justice Pathak which said, “You have insulted me by sitting on the right of the Chairman, I am senior to you so I should be sitting on the right of the Chairman and you should be sitting on the left”. I immediately passed the note to the Chairman with a suggestion that he adjourns the hearing for five minutes so that I can change over. He sent the note back to me saying “stay where you are”. In England or in Europe in international Arbitrations it does not matter which side the Arbitrator sits. During the coffee break, Lord McKenzie Stuart told Chief Justice Pathak that it does not matter where the Arbitrator sits and he jokingly told Chief Justice Pathak, “Don’t be a fool”. The Chief Justice took offence to this and throughout the two weeks hearing he did not utter a word and did not speak with Lord McKenzie Stuart throughout the Arbitration reference thereafter.

    The way to break into the field of international Arbitration is to first attach with a law firm or an advocate who is already handling international Arbitrations and then attend international Arbitration conferences.

     

    Can you describe your work as a solicitor in England?

    A Solicitor in London prepares the case and instructs the Counsel to argue it before the Court. It is now also possible in commercial cases for Solicitors to appear in Court as Advocates, I have done so on many occasions. My firm and I are known for difficult cases where client comes to us after they have been told by the Magic Circle firms that their claim or case is very bad.

    Two examples of this are the international Arbitration award by International Arbitration Court in The Hague which made an award of USD 50 million against the Russian Federation in the Yukos shareholders claim. Russia came to me for an out of box approach for Russia challenging the award in the Dutch Court. Sometime before this, an Indian Government company PEC Limited had come to me and they had an award of USD 8 million against them. On the face of it they had no defence because they had participated in the Arbitration and also the appeal process of GAFTA Arbitration and had lost. I took the point that although English law applied in the contract, the contract was signed by the Director of PEC on behalf of PEC and whether he had authority to do so would be governed by Indian law. Under Indian law, for a Government contract there are rules and for a USD 25 million contract you require two Director’s signatures.

    PEC therefore through my firm argued that the Arbitration agreement was void because the contract was void. In the English Court on the question of Indian law we led the evidence of Mr. Soli Sorabjee, former Attorney General of India and the other side which was a Thailand company, Asia Golden Rise, led the evidence of Mr. Harish Salve. Both of these eminent jurists were cross examined in open Court and the Court preferred the evidence of Mr Sorabjee. This changed the prevalent law.

    The second example was the case of Indian Oil Corporation (IOC) v Coastal Bermuda where IOC had participated in the London Arbitration defending a huge claim of some USD 18 million. The Arbitrators decided against Indian Oil Corporation but one of the Arbitrators, Mr. Gordon Pollock QC, added a post-script to this decision suggesting that Indian Oil’s legal team was not competent and if the team had been competent, the result may well have been different. My firm did not act for IOC in the Arbitration but they came to me after all the big law firms and Queen’s Counsel had told IOC that they had no chance of challenging the award. My firm challenged the award on an innovative ground that the award could be enforced as a judgment of the English Court and for the English Court to enforce a judgment which was not based on the two legal analysis of the evidence would be against English public policy. The English Court accepted this and remitted the award back to the Arbitrators and in its judgment said, “Finality is good but justice is better”. Indian Oil Corporation v Coastal Bermuda [1990] 2 Lloyd’s Rep. 407.

     

    Where do you stand on the “two hat” debate over whether arbitrators should also act as counsel? 

    There is really no problem. When I am appointed as an Arbitrator, if there is a conflict I will not accept appointment. International Arbitration is a field with many important debates currently going on, with many suggesting reforms such as Bilateral Arbitration Treaty (Gary Born), regulating the ethical conduct of counsels (Swiss Arbitration Association, London Court of International Arbitration).

     

    Could you discuss the aforementioned suggestions and your take on them or any such significant debates?

    The most important reform which is required is the need of diversity in the clique of international Arbitrators. The current international Arbitrators must be prepared to accept competent Arbitrators in the circle of international Arbitrations. Statistics show that the present international institutions generally favour appointing white Arbitrators from developed countries. This needs to change.

     

    How do you remain updated with all the new developments in the field of international arbitration and mediation?

    There are at present many press and internet mediums which keeps me informed on all the new developments in the field of international Arbitration and Mediation.

     

    What advice do you have for our readers who are primarily college students?

    Always act with integrity and remember the legal profession is an honourable profession and honesty and fairness is the most important duty of a lawyer. The policy which I follow is that I can play with the law because the Judge is there to reject or accept my submissions on law but not under any circumstances play with the facts. If I find that the client has told me a lie in his instructions I would refuse to act for that client. I would not make up stories or allegations on behalf of a client simply to support the client’s case. This approach breads both character and increases credibility before Judges. The five mantras for law students, I would suggest, are:

    • Have a vision on where you want the business to go.
    • Have integrity and honest approach in the work you do.
    • Have courage to have an open mind and an out-of-box approach to progress the business.
    • Make the most of all that comes and the least of all that goes.
    • Forgive people for any wrongdoings against you, and leave it to the universe to deal with them.