Super Lawyer

Category: Interviews

  • Vaibhav Kumar, Advocate-on-Record, Supreme Court of India, on litigation, ADR, and his diverse experience

    Vaibhav Kumar, Advocate-on-Record, Supreme Court of India, on litigation, ADR, and his diverse experience

    Vaibhav graduated from Campus Law Centre, University of Delhi, in 2008. He has handled litigation as well as advised clients across a broad range of issues like commercial disputes, information technology law, intellectual property law, drafting and vetting of contracts, sale/lease deeds, corporate issues, consumer disputes, arbitrations, writ petitions, appeals, real-estate, matrimonial & family disputes, Wills and estate planning etc. An ardent supporter of alternate dispute resolution mechanisms like mediation and counselling, he has also assisted several clients in resolving their disputes amicably. Amongst his clients are up and coming companies in the SaaS, ITES and e-commerce sectors who deploy cloud-based solutions like AWS, Salesforce etc. for enterprises across all sectors, as well as other medium and small enterprises whom he has helped on various aspects like corporate structuring, shareholder issues, advisory services related to expansion to other territories, drafting of Master Service Agreements with clients, Vendor agreements, Non-Disclosure Agreements, Employee agreements etc.

    In this interview we speak to him about:

    • Being an Advocate-on-Record
    • His passion for litigation
    • His interest in ADR

     

    Given that most of our readers are law students and young lawyers, how will you introduce yourself to them? 

    I am an independent lawyer, with a broad focus from civil to corporate matters. Early in the profession, I recognized that practising law at all different levels – from the District courts to the High Courts to the Supreme Court – was not only something I enjoyed, but was something that gave unique value to my clients. Since I practise along this broad spectrum, not only do I serve the A-Z needs of my litigating clients, but I am also in a unique position to advise my corporate clients. Having recently been designated as an Advocate-on-Record, I look forward to the AOR practice adding another dimension to my practice.

    I gained inspiration to study law from my maternal grandfather, Justice Gyan Chand Mathur, who was a judge several decades ago in the Allahabad High Court. Unfortunately, my decision to join the legal profession came several years after he passed away, so de facto I have had to build my practice as a first-generation lawyer. I did not even benefit from his comprehensive legal library, which we donated to a charitable institution soon after he passed away.

     

    What made you decide to pursue a career in law after obtaining a BA degree? 

    I earned my B.A. degree from Kenyon College, USA, with a major in Anthropology and a minor in Mathematics. At the time of my undergraduate studies, law was not anywhere in my mental framework, and initially I had considered a career in academia in the field of Anthropology. However, several circumstances brought me back to India, when I narrowed my choices down to doing a MBA or Law.

    The legal profession stood out to me as uniquely diverse in that a lawyer could in the same day work on a large corporate matter as well as on a pro-bono/ public interest matter. Secondly, I recognized that so long as you worked across a range of matters and didn’t narrow yourself, the variety of cases you can be involved in would ensure that life never got boring and each day would be different from the previous one, even more so if one was practising in different courts. Especially at that age, the idea of being stuck at a desk, day in and out, seemed extremely undesirable to me. Thirdly, if you have your own practice, you have the power to determine the pace and path of your professional career. I had recognized early on that building my own practice was a definite goal for me, and I have been extremely happy in this role as an independent practitioner. And so, the choice to do Law was a fairly easy one over doing a MBA.

    I graduated with a three-year LL.B. degree from the Faculty of Law (CLC), University of Delhi. I am a big proponent of the three year LL.B. program after a Bachelor’s degree, because having a Bachelor’s degree in something unrelated gives a person a broad horizon and a general understanding of a larger world. Law is something that we will knock our heads against for the rest of our career, and the years after school are some of the most formative years of a person. It is not by accident that historically some of the most accomplished litigators were people with a tremendous breadth of interest in the arts, music, literature, etc.

     

    How was your experience in law school? Have you ever felt the NLU- non NLU divide?

    Ours was a three-year program, and there weren’t many opportunities for us to interact with NLU students. In the practice of law, I feel there is no divide between NLU/ Non-NLU and really what defines you in this profession is your personal abilities and achievements, not which law college you come from. Maybe if you are working in a firm, the institution you studied Law might be relevant for the first couple of years in the profession, especially in the recruitment of associates fresh out of law school, but after that it’s not much of a factor.

     

    What was your first job after law school? 

    I started my practice working with Ms. Maninder Acharya, who at that time was a standing counsel for the Municipal Corporation of Delhi, and has since been designated as a Senior Advocate. Her office was like jumping into the proverbial deep water, as with the volume and time sensitivity of our work, I had to hit the ground running immediately. With multiple matters listed every day (if I recall correctly the maximum reached 26!), her office was perfect in giving me unmatched exposure and responsibility in handling matters myself. I found myself appearing almost daily before the Delhi High Court and that helped me tremendously in gaining confidence in arguing matters.

    From Ms. Acharya’s office, I moved to Mr. Virender Goswami’s office, which was a truly formative experience. Mr. Goswami is in my opinion of the most formidable lawyers I have seen especially when it comes to witness examination, which is an art that is unfortunately lost on most in our profession. In his office, I was given the opportunity to be personally responsible for several matters, and was given the chance to appear in several courts, especially the District courts, where I feel the true meat-and-bones of any case really lies.

    I got both these positions by way of recommendations through personal and well-meaning contacts, and I am thankful for that serendipity.

     

    How important is CGPA to recruiters? 

    Everywhere that I have worked so far, has been in a litigating position and typically in small to medium offices, so I can’t speak for recruitment in corporate and large law firms. In my experience, while every recruiter would certainly want to review your resumé, good recruiters would put the most emphasis in the interview, because that’s where you can tell a lot about a person’s personality, maturity and capability. In my opinion, there’s little correlation between your CGPA scores and your professional success, so for a recruiter to place undue importance on CGPAs etc. would eventually be detrimental to their own organization.

     

    Do you recall the first time you argued a matter in court? 

    If anyone ever told you that they were confident the first time they appeared before a court or argued a matter, they would be lying! Arguing in court is immensely challenging, because if you want to be good at it, you need to not only know your facts and law inside out, you also need to know how to read the judge and the flow of the proceedings. While arguing, you are of course a bundle of nerves, but if you do perform well, in my experience most judges are very receptive and encouraging, as are other members of the bar. On occasion, I have had the counsel for the other side comment positively on my arguments, and that always adds a little spring in your step! If I had to give only one piece of advice, it would be to never ever appear before a judge without reading the file, even if you are just stepping in for a colleague to ask for a passover or adjournment.

     

    Can you describe an ordinary day of a litigator?

    The best part about being a litigator, and a generalist at that, is that there is no “ordinary” day. I could be working on a motor accident compensation case one minute, then a property dispute, and then be advising a client on how to structure their company when expanding to new areas, and then be counselling a couple having marital discord. While you work as an associate under other lawyers, they would of course set the tone for how the office works in terms of work timings etc. I have seen lawyers who are unforgiving of unpunctuality (“9:00AM means 9:00AM, and not 9:01AM”) and I have seen lawyers who give you complete flexibility to work as you want to, even from home, provided that the work is never compromised and deadlines are met. I personally gravitate towards the latter, as I think not only does it keep everyone in the office happy, but also boosts productivity and creativity at work.

     

    What are the skills one needs to develop in order to succeed as a litigator?

    That is an extremely tough question, not in the least because it presupposes that there is a single definition to what is “success” as a litigator. Some people define it in terms of money and the car that you drive, while others define it in terms of the respect you get from the bar and the bench, and there are numerous other criteria you could posit. What each person needs to do is to discern what is their definition of success, and then understand the skills you need to achieve it.

    That said, a few skills that that one could say are somewhat universal are communication skills, your ability to think out of the box, paying attention to detail, ability to deal with different personalities with respect to your client, the other side’s lawyer, the judge etc. Moreover, as a litigator you need to be master of a number of other skills in order to run a successful practice, not the least of which are time management, ability to manage an office, ability to keep a track of billing etc. One of the most important tasks in running an independent practice is business development, which comes easy to some and harder for others.

     

    How did you secure a position at O.P. Khaitan? 

    As with my other positions, it was a colleague who was aware of a requirement at the firm who introduced me to them. By this time, I had practiced with a number of lawyers, and I felt joining a firm was the natural progression towards my career growth. At O.P. Khaitan, I worked on a number of litigation matters ranging from corporate disputes, real estate disputes, matrimonial matters, etc. and was also introduced to new aspects like filing trademark applications globally for clients who were expanding their business in a big way. I had a great experience there and got to work with the Managing Partner and a Senior Partner directly, and was also given the responsibility to handle many matters on my own. My decision to leave was based on an offer I received from Luthra & Luthra.

     

    How did you secure a position at Luthra & Luthra? 

    I joined Luthra & Luthra to work under a partner with whom I was acquainted over the years. He was looking for someone with my experience and the ability to handle matters independently, and I think it was a good fit both ways. In L&L, apart from general litigation, I got the chance to work on some high stakes matters such as those involving some of the largest telecom companies, arbitration matters etc. I left L&L when I felt it was time to start my own practice, and I had enough experience, skills and confidence commensurate with what is required to build your own practice.

     

    How was working at a law firm different from working at a lawyer’s chamber?

    The smallest office I have worked in was two lawyers (myself included!) and the largest about 200. They are completely different experiences, and I encourage young lawyers to try them both before making a long-term choice. Law firms are great in terms of the exposure they give you to large clients and important matters, as well as to have a steady and good income, but can be restrictive in terms of personal responsibility, bureaucracy, politics and most importantly skill growth. Working in a lawyer’s chamber can be invaluable in terms of the skills and independence you have no choice but to embrace.

     

    What are your areas of specialisation as a lawyer? 

    I have been conscious of not narrowing down my work to specialized domains. Even in terms of my clientele, I assist SMEs as well as individual clients. I love having a wide breadth of work and enjoy exploring new domains of law that I have not previously dealt with.

    As for fresh graduates finding their domain, if you do not already have a strong leaning towards a particular specialization by the time you graduate (and it’s okay not to), I recommend working for a chamber or two that has a wide breadth of work, and you will over time either organically gravitate towards a specialization, or like me find out that you prefer to be a generalist.

    Can you briefly tell us about some important matters you have worked on? 

    I wouldn’t be at liberty to talk about specific matters. However, as far as preparing for a day in court, there are no surprises there. If there is an argument, one needs to be well versed with the file and the relevant case law, and you need to anticipate the arguments the opposing counsel is likely to lead, and prepare for your response to them as well. That said, there is never a point you feel 100% prepared. Every now and then, you will feel prepared, only to appear and have the judge throw a googly at you. An important skill set is how you respond and react on your feet in this position.

     

    Have you ever considered pursuing higher education? 

    Over the course of my career I had thought about applying to LL.M. programs on several occasions, but never did. To summarize a whole lot of advice I got from numerous people in India and abroad is this: a LL.M. is great for your personal development in terms of your knowledge and skills (which you can control through studying and hard work), and can also be great for developing a network (which you unfortunately have little control over and left largely to luck). That said, most LL.M.s especially abroad are extremely expensive, and from a financial perspective you get little-to-no-value in terms of career growth and jobs. Most people who get LL.M. degrees return to the same city and perhaps even the same office they were with before, with little-to-no-growth in terms of promotions, salary etc. (certainly not commensurate with the money you would have paid for the program). So, in a nutshell for most people: if you are blessed with the financial means and have value for personal growth (skills and knowledge), then pursue a LL.M. Else, don’t.

    What is the process of being designated an Advocate on Record? 

    To become an AOR, there are some stringent qualifications you have to meet, but briefly put you need to work with an established AOR for at least a year, and then pass the AOR examinations that are held once a year. The examinations are tough, and it doesn’t make it easier that most people appearing would have last taken an exam anywhere from 5-10 years ago. Nor are most people accustomed any longer to writing for 3+ hours straight every day for 4 days straight! I don’t think there is one set path to success in the exams, especially since the examiners can change every year (and hence what they look for in the answers also changes), but what worked for me was to review the past several years’ exam papers, as well as to use the literature provided on the Supreme Court website and make my own notes. If you practice with a good AOR, then the Practice & Procedures and Drafting papers may require little effort and just a little bit of brushing up. For me personally, the last paper, on leading cases, was the most difficult as there is a LOT of information to digest there, and I would highly recommend that you space out reading those judgments over one or two months leading to the exam.

     

    What do you think is the future of ADR in India?

    I am a big believer in the power of mediation and counselling. I have seen cases where you would think the parties would not be ready to even talk to each other, much less compromise, eventually open up in the semi-formal setting of a mediation before an independent mediator, and resolve their issue amicably. The power of mediation and counselling is immense especially in domains like matrimonial law, where prolonged litigation really only serves the lawyers in the case, and the parties end up depleting their mental, emotional and financial strengths. My advice to clients, in matrimonial matters especially, is to aim for a divorce by mutual consent, and even in the business world, most business leaders recognize that litigation should only be a last resort after expending all efforts to find a middle ground. Increasingly, businesses are themselves building in mandatory mediation in the dispute resolution provisions in their agreements.

    However, I am less optimistic about arbitration, as I feel the same deficiencies have crept up in arbitration as is the bane of litigation (long adjournments, unnecessary formalities, arbitrariness, bureaucracy etc.). However, if we were to embrace the model used abroad where formal institutions administer arbitrations and mediations with more adherence to a transparent and efficient process, I think that could be a game-changer.

     

    What are the challenges you have faced in building your career as it stands today? 

    The single biggest challenge for me as an independent practitioner has been business development, and the never-ending process of looking for clients and work continuously. As lawyers are not allowed to advertise or solicit for work (which therefore relegates lawyers and clients meeting each other only through word of mouth) this particularly makes it harder for first generation lawyers to build their practice, and easier for generational lawyers to build upon the existing practice. The best that I can do is to maintain high-standards for the services I provide to my clients and a high level of integrity, and trust that satisfied client would not only return but would recommend me to others. So far, this strategy has worked for me and a majority of my work comes through referrals, and repeat clients.

     

    How do you maintain a work life balance?

    A part of my decision to go independent was to be able to manage my own time, clients, personal and professional time as per my needs. I am fortunate to have my office in Neeti Bagh, which also happens to be my residence. Due to this, I am able to cut travel time, and most courts are quite close too. I feel a lot of lawyers are victims of inadequate time management skills and regressive work timing policies, and a lot of time in law offices especially is spent unproductively. By culling this unproductive time from my life, I have been able to be actively involved in raising my daughter, and have also had the time to follow other pursuits like travelling. I see this change in my other colleagues who have their own independent practices as well, who have been able to balance their focus not only on work, but also on personal time and space.

     

    What advice do you have for our readers who are primarily college students?

    I think a lot of lawyers you have interviewed have probably covered the basics. What I would add is that you should use your internships and time in college to see how different career paths in the legal profession work. Don’t do it for the certificate. This is an invaluable time for you to explore and discover what attracts you the most. Law has a very high attrition rate (globally) with very few people studying law ending up being involved in the legal profession five years after graduation. I think a lot of that has to do with unrealistic expectations of your day-to-day life in a law office, and I know of several young lawyers who burnt out too fast working in offices which demanded fourteen to sixteen hour workdays, six to seven days a week. The good part is that even if you decide not to have a legal career at the end of it, the law degree is uniquely advantageous in that it will enhance virtually whatever you choose to do in life.

  • Abhijeet Shinde, Senior Associate, Trilegal, on litigation, the importance of an LLM, and his experience

    Abhijeet Shinde, Senior Associate, Trilegal, on litigation, the importance of an LLM, and his experience

    Abhijeet graduated from Government Law College, Mumbai, in 2008. He then went on to pursue his Masters from the University of Mumbai, batch of 2010. After successful stints with Haresh Jagtiani and Associates(Oasis Advisory and Counsel), Dua Associates, and Bharucha and Partners, he is currently Senior Associate at Trilegal.

    In this interview we speak to him about:

    • Pursuing an LLM
    • His litigation experience
    • His current role at Trilegal

    How would you introduce yourself to our readers?

    A first-generation lawyer, with no prior connection with law or the legal fraternity;  other than a twelve-year long legal battle fought by my family. Some top tier law firm stints and hard work is what has made me what I am today. I am proud of what I have achieved in this short career of about a decade. I am thankful to all my seniors, friends and colleagues in playing an important part in making me.

     

    What motivated you to pursue a career in law?

    Well I became a lawyer by mistake rather than by my own choice. I was eagerly pursuing to get into IIT’s as is a case with the current generation. Unfortunately (or may be fortunately), I had to abandon the IIT dream due to some compelling personal reasons. However, Mr. Mayur Vora (Managing Director of Mapro Foods Pvt. Ltd., Mahableshwar) had different plans for me. It would be fair to say, had it not been for his faith in my abilities, I wouldn’t have been a lawyer today.    

     

    Can you tell us about your internship experiences?

    Internship during our college time weren’t as important or sought after as they are nowadays. I did two internships, one with a small firm, and another with a practising lawyer in Bombay High Court. What I understood during these stints was that the legal profession was difficult to pursue and it was even more difficult for first generation lawyers.

     

    Have you ever felt the NLU and non- NLU divide? Do you think it is a consideration for employers?

    When we got out of college, the divide wasn’t as prevalent as it is today. However, even at that time, the Government Law College (GLC)/Non-GLC divide was quite apparent. People were more inclined to accept a fresher from GLC with lesser grades than from any other college. This, I think, was because most of the well known legal professionals, at that time, were alumni of GLC and were biased towards GLC students. Similarly, the NLU, non-NLU divide is quite palpable today. With the expansion of the legal profession, the desire for proficient resources has grown tremendously. Firms are ready to pay better retainerships than salaries offered to IIT freshers, to get good talent from the college itself. NLUs have provided the infrastructure required for imparting correct form of professional education so that young professionals are ready for the kind of work and culture the firms are desirous of having. It is a great opportunity for the law students from law schools to capitalize on. Though I’m personally not in favour of making this divide black and white, I do, however, appreciate the law schools’ efforts in preparing students for the kind of work they are expected to do.  

     

    What are your areas of interest? 

    I was always interested in Disputes. I have worked in the disputes teams of Oasis Advisory and Counsel, Dua Associates, Bharucha and Partners, and Trilegal – over a period of nine years. Unlike corporate practice, disputes throw up challenges everyday. The uncertainties and the challenges involved in resolving the disputes matters make this practice quite interesting. Over the years, I have been associated with some great personalities, high stake and interesting disputes cases. My love for my work provided me the additional push required for succeeding in disputes practice, especially, when you are a first-generation lawyer.

    I always advise interns who work with me, to do internships in both areas of practice, so that if they are able to understand and relate to their interests they will be in a better position to make an informed career choice. Difficulty is that, the short internship stints that the students undertake, are incapable of providing them enough insight into the nature of work so as to assist them in making a choice. I personally find it interesting when I meet students who are very clear as to the practice area they want to pursue after passing out of the college. I admire them. The more the students push themselves during internships, the better for them to understand the nuances of the legal field and different practice areas.

    This being an important choice, should be made before they join anywhere, since the firms have a tendency of putting resources in the basket to suit their needs and the students have no choice but to go with the flow even if that means they do something that they do not enjoy doing. Few of my junior colleagues have realised, frankly speaking – quite late in the day, after three or four years of being in corporate practice, that they like doing disputes matters and have requested me to guide them. At this stage it is difficult and quite painful to advise them to let go of their entire experience and start all over again, and with that, also take a hit on the remuneration. Few of them have been brave enough to take decisions to switch their practice areas and have done well even after that. To obviate these circumstances, I would advise students that they will do well to make their career choices at the earliest possible time.    

     

    What was the motivation behind opting for an LLM? 

    I always wanted to do an LLM. Specialization in Business Laws from Mumbai University was quite sought after at that time. It had evening classes for the course. I had joined Mr. Jagtinai’s chambers immediately after my LLB. It is difficult, if not impossible to do your LLM while you are working. If not for Mr. Haresh Jagtiani, who allowed me to purse my LL.M, it would have been impossible to undertake studying LL.M. It was done quite sincerely, completing the thesis and dissertation as is required, and topped in one of the subjects.

    Higher studies do add value to one’s career and students who have the opportunity do it, should do it, preferably from a recognised university. I have seen students travelling for higher studies to countries which are not known for imparting legal education; these, according to me, should be avoided. The purpose of pursuing higher education should be to add value to one’s career. Another reason it could be pursued, is to get accustomed to foreign law firm culture and get professional experience. This may be quite valuable in days to come.    

     

    In your opinion, what is the ideal time to pursue an LL.M?

    As I said, the aim of an LL.M should be to add value to your existing knowledge, or give you the extra dimension that was not provided in college. This could either be immediately after LL.B or even after getting some experience in the field that the student desires. The latter gives an option of specializing in a specific area of law.   

     

    How did you secure your first job? How important do you think a high CGPA is for recruiters?

    It was fairly easy to secure a job with Mr. Jagtaini because of his philosophy and personal views. I completely agree with them. According to him no resource in legal fraternity can be fairly assessed on the basis of his academic performance or in fifteen minutes of the interview. You will have to give a resource a chance of working for some time for anyone to realise his true potential. Specifically, because of this I do not agree on Firm/Corporates looking for students from National Law Colleges only. I have come across great knowlegable resources even from not very well- known colleges. According to me, the college or CGPA should be the last criteria for assessing a resource.  

     

    Please tell us about the hurdles you faced in the initial years when you were litigating?

    As the saying goes – a law professional is like wine, the older it is the wiser it gets. I was fortunate enough to get associated with Mr. Jagtiani for almost half a decade during which time I was able to hone my legal skills including drafting, application of law and argumentative skills. He at that time had some great senior people working with him. I was able to work closely with them and sharpen my legal skills. I credit my time at Mr. Jagtiani’s chamber to have prepared me for the legal career that I have today. My advice to junior lawyers would be to choose a good boss rather than well paying job. In the long run, this will tremendously add value to one’s career.  

     

    You have worked on and argued some landmark cases. How do you go about framing and drafting your arguments?

    Law is very dynamic. It keeps on changing and updating every now and then. Government changes and so do the Judges who interpret law. Many a time law is what the judge perceives it to be. All these factors make law very dynamic. A litigator has to be well informed, updated and should be able to convey his point with clarity and in the best possible way. Some of these qualities are inbuilt and some are required to be worked on and are developed overtime.

    One of my seniors, I remember, advised me that drafts should convey a clear message using minimum words. It is a wrong practice that is followed in drafting pleadings today when grounds over grounds and points over points are repeated. Drafts and arguments have to be concise, clear, and easily understandable by the audience it is meant for. Over the years I have worked on building these skill sets. It is always a work in progress. Fortunately, I was able to execute some high profile, high stake dispute matters successfully for our clients.

    What would be your advice to our readers who want to pursue international commercial arbitration?

    (In his time as a Senior Associate at Bharucha and Partners, Abhijeet has worked on a number of arbitration matters.)

    Arbitration is a specialized field. It is bound to grow bigger. Also, in terms of government’s motto of “ease of doing business”, further impetus to making arbitration compulsory as a mode of resolution of disputes is anticipated. Historically, there was a vast difference between ad hoc arbitrations and international institutional arbitrations in respect of timelines and the way they used to be conducted. Amendments to the Arbitration and Conciliation Act, 1996, were necessitated to reconcile the disparity and ambiguity with the rules of international institutional arbitrations and revamp the system in order to compete with these institutions, which due to their structured procedure and administrative support, provided distinct advantages, which were unavailable to parties opting for ad hoc arbitration. In a legal set up such as India’s, with huge population and enormous number of disputes, burdening of the Court system is bound to happen. Arbitration provides that leeway to this system firstly by reducing burden from the Courts and then providing a well structured and timely resolution of disputes with minimal interference from the Courts. To this end, good arbitration lawyers capable of effectively handling ad hoc arbitrations as well as international arbitration is the need of the hour. There is dearth of lawyers who can handle international arbitrations effectively. To my mind, it is a great opportunity to young lawyers to specialize in this area of law.  

     

    How did you secure a position at Trilegal? 

    My work was quite well known in the litigation circle. Trilegal was looking at someone senior to handle their litigation and mentor a team in Mumbai,  which at that time did not have a Partner. Since the role was to lead and mentor a team, I accepted to join them.

    Trilegal is great place to work and has a culture much different than the other places that I worked with. It is resource friendly. It has some high-profile dispute matters. These include advising and representing clients in different forums and on different aspect of law. Trilegal has a established practice in Delhi. It will take some time for Trilegal to have a robust disputes practice in Mumbai.   

     

    What challenges have you faced in building up your career as it stands today?

    Frankly speaking, when I look back, it does appear that I have come a long way. This is despite existence of all the issues which I have discussed earlier, particularly in respect of the legal field and personally. It is not easy to have a career in disputes if you are not passionate about law and hardworking. One thing is very clear is – hard work will never let you down and someday it will be rewarded.  

    How do you maintain a work- life balance, given the demanding nature of your job?

    This is a very important question to consider for everyone including my colleagues in the legal field. The professionals are caged due to the hourly billing and time sheet culture. I am not saying that the hourly billing and timesheet culture is bad, what I am saying is that the professionals are busy pleasing bosses or competing for good bonuses by putting in more time. I have done it and I don’t expect this to stop anytime soon. I am fortunate to have a wife who is a lawyer herself, and understands the demanding nature of my work. Otherwise, it would have been a task to balance the two.

    My advice to everyone will be to try and balance it in some way – either by taking up a sport (part time) or build on a hobby or do something unconnected with the profession. It releases pressure and helps increase productivity. It has worked for me, I am sure it will for others.  

     

    What advice do you have for our readers, who are primarily college students?

    Firstly, as far as choosing a career is concerned, I think it’s important that students decide, or at least converge on the practice area they would want to pursue at the earliest possible time. There’s competition everywhere, even getting into college, and after that, to get a good job. You will do good if you decide which places, if not bosses they would want to work with and try and work towards that. People landing in wrong jobs face many difficulties than the ones who start a little slower but have done so thoughtfully. Life also becomes easier if you do what you have chosen or like. A great law career awaits everyone and I wish students a successful one. I would be available should any of the readers want to contact me for career advise or otherwise.   

     

  • Jyoti Singh, Legal Consultant, Ministry of External Affairs, on working for the GoI, and her teaching experience

    Jyoti Singh, Legal Consultant, Ministry of External Affairs, on working for the GoI, and her teaching experience

    Jyoti graduated in law from University of Delhi in 2009. She subsequently went on to earn her LL.M in 2011. She has been working with the Legal & Treaties Division of the Ministry of External Affairs as a Consultant. She is also visiting faculty in University of Delhi and Indian Society of International Law, apart from other Law Schools. In her capacity, she handles the drafting and up-loading of the Treaties on MEA website. She vets the Agreements/Treaties /MoUs signed between the Govt. of India with other countries as well as advice on the court cases coming to the division. Apart from attending Inter ministerial meetings, she also goes to courts to brief the government counsels.

    In this interview we speak to her about:

    • Her internship experience
    • Working for the Ministry of External Affairs
    • Her passion for academia

    What motivated you to pursue a career in law?

    Honestly, I was not particularly keen on pursuing law, as I hail from a family of bureaucrats and doctors. Having said that, I would like to add that once I chose law, I started enjoying the subject thoroughly, as no other field is as dynamic or has such an impetus to excel. In today’s globalized world, the knowledge of law has become more of a requirement than a career choice, and I personally feel that it truly empowers and enriches every individual to deal with any travesty.

     

    Did you pursue extracurricular activities such as moots and debates in law school? 

    Yes, I was part of debates and extracurricular activities during my budding years. I was also a part of the core committee which organized international conferences in my college. It is necessary as well as interesting for students to excel either in research or debate or any other extracurricular activity apart from studies, if you are in the initial phase of your law school. Law is all about how confident one is to present oneself and make a niche.

     

    Tell us about your internships. 

    I did my internship at the National Commission for Women along with a few prominent law firms. Internships are very important in assessing your interest in the relevant area. When you intern, you get to know about the practical aspects of your subject, whereas classrooms cover only the the theoretical aspects. Therefore, the right kind of internship makes each student distinctive among their peer group.  Internships provide first-hand experience in the legal profession and a close look at the day-to-day responsibilities that come with being a lawyer.

    Simultaneously the students will gain an insight into what type of law they would want to—or not want to—pursue after graduation from law school. Someone might think about becoming a criminal lawyer, but then intern for a corporate law firm and realize that is what they would prefer to practice instead.

    Interest in the subject, exposure, kind of work given to interns, etc. should be kept in mind while applying for internships. I feel that students should get as much exposure as they can while doing their LL.B. course.

     

    Have you ever felt the NLU and non- NLU divide? Do you think it is a consideration for employers?

    Absolutely not. When you are capable of proving your worth, I don’t think the NLU, non-NLU divide can prove to be a hindrance. In the end, what the employers want is the maximum output from their employees and not a prominent law school name in their credentials. It therefore is a myth and not a reality.

     

    What are your areas of interest? How did you discover and pursue them?

    My area of interest primarily has been International Law and Constitutional Law along with Commercial Laws. I have been very focused since my childhood on the latest developments at the national as well as at international level. Reading newspapers and magazines and co-relating them to the contemporary development gave me an unparalleled insight and I traced my interest in International Law during those years of my life.  It was kind of fascinating to read about how the legal system works globally. My interest in Constitution was always there which got a boost in my second year of law. DU Law Faculty stresses on case study mechanism and reading all the historical and land mark cases of Constitution somehow cleared my understanding and developed my fascination towards Constitution of India and Constitutional Law.

     

    What was the motivation behind pursuing an LLM? 

    LL.M. gives an altogether different perspective to law students. You tend to be specific and more research oriented when you do your Masters. You also get to have many more career options when you do your Masters including academics. This world is becoming increasingly competitive and complex and it is always better to have a specialization along with a better understanding and doing LL.M. gives you that platform.

     

    How did you secure a position with the Ministry of External Affairs?

    I joined the MEA because of my specialization in International Law. If students wish to join the MEA they should sharpen up their International Law skills and should do more and more internships in International Organizations along with attending summer courses in international law.

     

    What is your work profile in the capacity as a consultant for the MEA?

    We work on International Law related issues. It involves vigorous research on Treaties and Agreements and its negotiation. Apart from that few domestic law related issues also see the thrust of Legal Division of MEA and overall the experience is great.

     

    What are the skills one needs to develop in order to work with the MEA?

    One should be energetic, have a far sighted insight into all the aspects of International Law, and be outspoken. Having said that, one should be ready to slog as there is no short cut to success in any field.

     

    What inspired you to pursue academia?

    Teaching is intellectually stimulating. You read and study in order to make others read. Isn’t it interesting enough? Also when I teach I get to interact with younger lot of students who are always inquisitive and keep throwing a volley of questions, enriching their teachers in turn. I have taught at Delhi University Law Faculty, my Alma matter, apart from the Indian Society of International Law as a visiting faculty.

     

    How can our readers stay updated about India’s diplomatic ties and relations with other countries? 

    India and its international relations are in the limelight of late. The Ministry of External Affairs is the Government agency responsible for update of the foreign relation between India and other foreign countries. Anyone who has interest in diplomacy should keep themselves abreast by regularly visiting the website of MEA. Also, there are many magazines and newspapers which cover the diplomatic relationships widely.

     

    What challenges have you faced in building up your career as it stands today?

    Like every other student grappling in the final stage of his studies, I was also very apprehensive of the uncertainties of the field I chose for myself. However, law is a field which never disappoints. There is ample scope for every individual to shine. There are always teething troubles but they can be overcome with sheer determination and will.

     

    What advice do you have for our readers who are primarily college students?

    My advice to all the burgeoning lawyers is that give your best at the college level as this is where you get a foundation for your upcoming years. Stay positive, work hard, and never mislay your passion while making a career in law. All the best.

     

  • Prashanth Varadarajan, Legal Counsel, HP India, on Insurance Law, being In-house Counsel, and his diverse experience

    Prashanth Varadarajan, Legal Counsel, HP India, on Insurance Law, being In-house Counsel, and his diverse experience

    Prashanth graduated from Amity Law School in 2009. Prashanth also holds a Masters’ degree in International Corporate and Commercial Laws under the University of London (International Programmes) with academic guidance from the University College of London and the Queen Mary College, London. Prashanth Varadarajan is currently working as the Legal Counsel in HP India’s legal team and is based out of Gurgaon, India. At HP, his work profile includes providing legal support to deals, contract reviewing and negotiations, distribution and partner channels and litigation.

    In this interview we speak to him about:

    • Working at MetLife India, Max Life, and IFFCO TOKIO India
    • His current role at HP
    • His experience thus far

    Given that most of our readers are law students and young lawyers, how will you introduce yourself to them?

    I am a second generation lawyer. My father, Mr. D. Varadarajan, is currently practising as an Advocate in the Supreme Court of India, Delhi High Court, and the National Consumer Disputes Redressal Forum. My wife, Vaishnavi, is also a lawyer and she comes from a family of lawyers as well. While my nativity is from Tamil Nadu, I have been brought up in New Delhi since birth. I did my entire schooling in New Delhi and then I did my integrated B.A(LLB) Hons. from Amity Law School, Noida (affiliated to Amity University). Later, I went onto do a Masters in International Commercial and Corporate Laws from the University of London International Programmes (with academic direction from University of London College and Queen Mary College).

     

    What made you decide to pursue a career in law?

    As a kid, I would see the law books on my father’s desk at home and these law books would be pretty thick in size. That used to intrigue me as to what all has been written in those books because of which they are so thick! At school, I used to take part in a lot of oratory and debate competitions and I used to win quite a few of them. I soon discovered that I had a certain skill at oratory and the legal field is one such, where oration plays a significant role. Further, during my high school days, one of my school mates happened to lend me John Grisham’s A Time to Kill, which introduced me to the world of legal fiction. I was really inspired by the protagonist in that novel, a lawyer named Jake Brigance who vowed to acquit his client against all odds in a murder case, even facing death threats at times. I soon became a fan of John Grisham’s novels and every novel would bring about some interesting legal fiction. I think all these factors had a role in getting me interested in the legal field and me eventually deciding to pursue a career in law.

     

    How was your experience in law school? 

    My law school experience was excellent. There were many events that used to take place in the law school or we were asked to participate in some external events. There was a nice blend of studies and extra-curricular activities, all of which were aimed at personality development of the students. I have participated in various moot court competitions, more notably, the Henry Dunant International Moot Court competition on International Law and the inter Amity Moot Court Competition. I was a part of the college cricket team and used to regularly participate in inter college matches and tournaments.

    How has an LL.M in International Commercial and Corporate Laws helped your career?

    I got interested in this area owing to the work that I was doing in the corporate sphere and also because I was wanting to have a cross border perspective on these topics. On account of globalization and liberalization of cross border trade regimes, today corporate and commercial activities are no longer confined to a specific geographical territory.  I felt that I, as an in-house counsel, should have an all-round perspective on the topic that I am working on and for all these reasons, I enrolled for the Master’s degree. I must say that after completing the Master’s degree and having gained intrinsic knowledge on the globalized nature of corporate and commercial laws, it has been of significant benefit to me while negotiating transactions or while giving an in-house legal advice to the business stakeholders.

     

    What was your first job after law school? How did you secure it? 

    I didn’t join the corporate field immediately after law school. I initially practised for a brief period,  after graduation, before joining IFFCO Tokio General Insurance Co. Ltd. as Assistant Manager – Legal and Corporate Affairs. I had handled a couple of insurance claims related matters for IFFCO Tokio and I approached them for a suitable opening in their legal team. Things worked out well and I joined them. While the transition from a practising counsel to an in-house counsel was fairly smooth, I quickly realised that, unlike judges who would patiently listen to an arguing counsel on a point, the business stakeholders in  the corporate sector are actually interested in knowing only what business friendly solution is there in the offing. There is intense time pressure both on the business person and on the in-house counsel to arrive at a business friendly conclusion, though within the boundaries of law. Sometimes this would require an out-of-the-box thinking and solution. I understood that while the business stakeholders would appreciate all the academic and theoretical points that I can state, what they are really interested is a solution and risk mitigation.

     

    How important is CGPA to recruiters? 

    My personal take is that CGPA is not the sole determining criterion for selection of a candidate; rather it is just be one of the many criteria that recruiters look into. While our education system does give more importance to higher grades, a higher CGPA does not really reflect the true mettle of a candidate. While the parameters for recruiting candidates differ from one recruiter to the other, generally, recruiters look at a certain amount of smartness in the candidate, the ability to logically reason and analytically break down a problem, good communication and drafting skills and more importantly, the humility, willingness and the attitude to learn from one’s mistakes and get groomed for a larger role in the future.

     

    You practised law for a brief period post college. Can you describe your experiences? 

    Practising law is a completely different ball game as opposed to reading or studying the law. The initial years are bound to be a struggle as the newly enrolled lawyer tries to find a footing in the profession and learning the tricks of the trade. The pay is also something which could be low. My advice to those who start out on their own, would be that if they have a passion to do litigation and if they feel that practising law is their life’s calling, then they should continue to concentrate and be focused, notwithstanding the hurdles that they may encounter.

     

    Can you tell us about being Deputy Manager of the Legal team at Max Insurance?

    (As Deputy Manager of the Legal team in Max Life Insurance, Prashanth was the youngest person in a team responsible for the mammoth task of standardising contracts.)

    Well, it was a humongous task. The mandate was to create common, standardized agreement templates which can be used by the subsidiaries of the Max India group. There are around five subsidiary companies under the Max India umbrella and all of them in diverse businesses ranging from Senior Living to Health Care to Life Insurance to Health Insurance. All these businesses had their own internal policies/requirements to comply with and well as regulations and statutory compliances to meet. What may be applicable to one subsidiary would not necessarily apply to the other. All these made the task of standardizing the contracts slightly complicated. Owing to regulatory requirements, some of the contracts could not be modified so as to create a standardized version applicable across the board. We were a team of four initially (the committee later on grew in size), segregated the contracts into standard and non-standard and created a checklist of all the standard contracts and all the standard and common clauses that form part of all these standard contracts. The non-standard contracts were kept out of scope of standardization since these could either be on account of a regulatory requirement or where they were not amenable to standardization (like a reinsurance contract with a reinsurer which the life insurance and health insurance subsidiary of Max would have to execute.). As the days progressed, we had created a depository of all the standard clauses, along with the respective verbiage against each of these clauses. We then got together to create a common verbiage for each of these clauses, that could be used across the board, irrespective of which subsidiary decides to use the clause. We had also created a standardized agreement template, which would basically be used for services deals, wherein almost 75% of the terms were standardized with the remaining 25% being left for modifications/inclusions from the scope perspective. While I did not get to see the actual implementation of these standardized agreements, since I had moved onto MetLife Insurance by then, it was a great experience for me to have been a part of the entire exercise and that too of this nature.

     

    As Senior Legal counsel at MetLife insurance, what was your job profile? 

    MetLife was another huge experience for me. The wide canvas of work and responsibilities gave a lot of exposure to me to activities and topics which I had never done before. At MetLife, I was responsible for managing consumer litigation, ensuring regulatory (India and US) reporting and compliances, providing legal support to HR, Admin, Claims advisory, review of Products T&Cs for submission to IRDAI, reinsurance contract review and negotiation, advising distribution channels, etc. At MetLife, I played a key role in the end-to-end setting up of a new distribution channel called the Insurance Marketing Firm (IMF) within the scheduled timelines, which made MetLife one of the early birds in the insurance sector in India to launch this new distribution channel. At the Legal Counsel’s team meet at Goa in 2014, I was awarded the departmental award for ensuring innovation in legal department, for setting up and ensuring compliance of a process to deal with consumer litigation management within MetLife.

     

    You are currently working as a legal counsel with HP. How did you secure this position? 

    As an in-house counsel in HP, I play the role of a generalist and I currently provide transactional legal support, review of RFPs and tenders, contract reviewing and negotiations. I also advise on Competition law and Environment law related queries and issues. I also provide legal support and advice to HP’s partner channel and distribution verticals and I also handle a certain part of the litigation. It is little less than a year since I have been a part of HP and I must say that the experience so far has been wonderful. As someone who has worked extensively in a highly regulated sector like insurance prior to joining HP, I find that HP provides the opportunity for a legal counsel to be innovative in his outlook towards work, something which a highly regulated environment wouldn’t permit owing to compliance requirements or restrictions. Each day at HP brings about its own share of unique issues and opportunities, which make the job more interesting.

    What got you interested in the insurance sector?

    I got interested in the field of insurance because of my father, who has played a key role for the IRDAI, India’s insurance regulator, in putting in place the regulatory framework for insurance industry, and he continues to be a much sought after attorney by the said industry for advice on various  key regulatory issues and solutions. When I passed out of law school, I used to assist him in the research of common law precedents and the regulatory trends in established insurance jurisdictions like the UK and US. Insurance is a highly complex yet interesting field and the intricacies of the same got me interested in this field. About insurance and the sector in India, in a nutshell, there are two major types of insurances: Life and General. General is a very fast field and the diversifications are multiple like Fire, Marine, Motor, Health, Liability, etc. In India, prior to 1999, only state owned PSUs had the monopoly over insurance: LIC for life insurance, while there were four PSUs for general insurance under the umbrella of General Insurance Corporation (GIC). In 1999, the Insurance Regulatory and Development Authority of India (IRDAI) was created by an Act of Parliament and it became the insurance regulator in India. The Insurance Act was extensively amended in 1999 to remove the monopoly of the state run PSUs in the sector and to open up  the sector for private players, with foreign equity participation. This has given consumers more options to choose from, as opposed to earlier times when the choices were pretty limited. The sector is highly regulated. Like every sector, insurance sector in India has had its own share of challenges and is currently facing headwinds in the form of high operating costs and expenses, but I am confident that  the sector will definitely tackle the challenges and do well in tapping the under-tapped market with product innovation.

     

    What are the skills one needs to develop in order to succeed as an in house lawyer? 

    In my view, in today’s corporate environment, an in-house counsel has ceased to be a person who manages legal issues arising in corporate transactions. Today’s in house counsels have a larger and well defined role to play, as opposed to the traditional in-house counsels. The in house counsels of today are expected to collaborate with business and other verticals and render strategic and cutting edge legal advice with an integrated approach. Naturally, an increased responsibility would require enhanced skill sets, but at the basic level, an in-house counsel needs to have the basic domain knowledge with good communication skills, both written and spoken. As a vital cog of the organization’s decision making matrix, the counsel needs to have a sound knowledge of the company’s business models and strategies and also be able to advise the business teams without resorting to legal jargon. The thrust should be to find a business friendly, logical solution to a problem without breaching the boundaries of law, by looking through the problem rather than looking at the problem.

     

    How do maintain a work life balance?

    Working as an in-house counsel, I generally have late evenings to finish critical issues or close something which is of an urgent requirement. The job sometimes involves working on weekends as well. For me, the best way to unwind after a long and hectic day at work is to play with my two and half year old son. He is the perfect antidote for my tiredness and his energy levels radiate onto me as well. During weekends, I try my hand at cooking as well and dabble in a bit of water color painting and digital photography. I do make it a point to visit the gym at least four days a week (going all seven days of a week is a bit challenging).

     

    What advice do you have for our readers who are primarily college students?

    Have confidence in your abilities and never get frustrated by rejections or failures. Also, never stop the learning process. Law school can teach you many things, but the world always teaches you new lessons that are never the part of the curriculum. Also, its good to make mistakes as you get to learn from them.  Be positive, the world is large and  it’s for you to seize the opportunity.

     

  • D. Manjunath Rao, Manager-Policy and Regulatory Affairs, Solargise India, on Energy Laws, and his diverse experience

    D. Manjunath Rao, Manager-Policy and Regulatory Affairs, Solargise India, on Energy Laws, and his diverse experience

    D. Manjunath Rao graduated in law from National Law College, Shimoga, in 2004. Since then he has worked at Ayyappa and Cariyappa Associates, Enercon GmbH, M/S Greenko Group plc, Link Legal India Law Services, and Essential Energy India Pvt. Ltd., he is currently Manager at Solargise India. His area of expertise involves experience in working for companies from highly regulated sectors such as Renewable energy, oil & gas and telecommunications in the areas of Legal, Government Relations, Regulatory and Compliance.

    In this interview we speak to him about:

    • His passion for Energy Law
    • Being in-house counsel
    • His diverse experience

    Given that most of our readers are law students and young lawyers, how will you introduce yourself to them? 

    I am a Law Professional specialising in Electricity Laws. I grew up in the cradle of greenery and mountains amidst the misty splendour (called Malenadu) of Chickmagaluru, Karnataka and studied law at The National Law College, Shimoga.

    I don’t come from a family of lawyers. My father was an employee of erstwhile Karnataka Electricity Board and incidentally my career developed in the field of Electricity Regulations. That is the only connect my family has with my career.

     

    What was it that got you interested in the legal field? 

    As far as I remember, I was always inspired by people from the legal field, which included some of my far relatives who were practising Law. The success stories and the respect that the profession holds, attracted me to law. The immense satisfaction you get when a client/company gets relief while acting on your advice has kept my motivation stronger and still going.

    My admission to commerce was nowhere related to my legal career. I joined B.Com with an objective to get into MBA or CA as the same was usually seen as the consummation of a commerce degree. However, as time passed, I slowly developed interest in Law because of the above said reasons. Moreover, I always believed in doing the same thing differently instead of doing different or new things, with a slight emulation of Mr. Shiv Khera’s quote, modified my ambition from Commerce to Law.

     

    Did you participate in extracurricular activities such as moots, debates, etc. in college? 

    Yes, I used to provide research support to my team for the moots and debates. Though my internship did not give the weightage to my resume with well-known names, it did, give me the exposure of seeing the core of the profession. My visit to the lower courts and the offices of the advocates there, gave me tremendous exposures to the basics of all types of legal issues. I got the opportunity to understand Court procedures  from their nascent stage.

     

    What are your areas of interest? How did you discover and pursue them?

    My area of interest is law. Though these are the days of specialisation, I think, a lawyer should know all the branches of law as they are interconnected. Hence, I always believed in the phrase “Jack of all and master of one”. That’s why I specialised in electricity laws, but I am always open to exploring other areas of this profession. In my career hitherto, I am lucky enough to have a chance to touch all aspects of the law, irrespective of the fact that I have specialised in electricity laws and have been working in the renewable energy industry.

     

    What was your first job after college? 

    With the ideology of doing things differently and in the urge to challenge the myths associated with the legal profession, I made my way to Bangalore. I joined law office of Ayyappa and Cariappa Associates through merit rounds. Practising in a law office not only laid the foundation for my career in law but also gave me practical insight to the legal career. It gave me the exposure to understand the basics of practising viz court procedures, drafting of legal documents and pleadings,  appearances before various types of courts, understanding the working in court offices, interaction with clients, interaction with government official/departments and understanding registration procedures.

     

    How did you secure an appointment at Enercon India Energy?

    Joining Enercon India Limited is the most cherished part of my life and I will forever have regards for the people there. Enercon experience has a prominent contribution in shaping my career.

    Though I got into practising initially, the objective behind the same was to lay the very foundation for converting my dreams to reality. The support of my senior Mr. Cariappa in this process is significant. While practising, I started searching for a job through job portals. However, I was not confident of getting the desired job. The scenario in those days was such that corporates would hire only from law schools or foreign universities, if need be. Others chose external lawyers on a case-to-case basis. Hence, overall opportunities were less, unlike these days. Lack of suitable opportunities created hindrance to my confidence.  Fortunately, I got a call from the HR of Enercon India Limited who picked my resume from a job portal. The people there, especially HR, were extremely mature in their approach. The questions asked and the tests given were more focused on testing my honesty, capacity to work hard and readiness for learning rather than my academics.

    My focus at that time was to get into a corporate world which can provide me the opportunity of learning and tremendous experience to reach my destination. The only question I asked during the interview was whether this is an LPO, for which the HR laughed and told that it’s for legal department and not an LPO.

    The day I got my offer letter is the happiest day in my life. It was a German based wind energy company which was ranked no. 1 in the world. The profile was Electricity Regulatory. It was a fresh breath of air and an entry to a whole new world.

    I was a tad scared in the beginning. However, my colleagues supported me throughout. Though the profile focused on laws and regulations, eventually, I got the opportunity to handle overall legal issues. Enercon had its operations in many states and I got the exposure to regulations and laws of various states. I had complete independence and worked as an independent lawyer within the corporate.  The exposure and success was fantastic. The frequent interaction with the Government departments with respect to policy and regulations exposed me to a new branch of Policy and Government Affairs which was another feather in the cap. In this way, my first company was the reason behind my multidimensional career, i.e, legal, regulatory affairs and government affairs

     

    How was working in house different from working at a law chamber?

    The work profile at Enercon was a dream come true. It was almost similar to the practice of a law chamber except that I had only one client, that is the company, and that I could not appear before courts. I was less dependent on external lawyers or consultants and managed to do all the legal work except appearance before the civil court or high court.

    I worked with Enercon for five years and then joined Greenko Group.  Greenko further extended my exposure to other renewable energy technologies, such as mini hydro and biomass. As all this time I was enjoying the work in the corporates, the lava of having the taste of law profession started oozing out and I could not withhold myself from re-entering the practising field.

     

    From working in-house, you took up a job with Link Legal. What motivated this shift? 

    As I was waiting for the suitable opportunity to give a shape to my aspiration of earning practising knowledge, I found my opportunity at law office of Mr. Shirdhar Prabhu which was exclusively into electricity regulatory practice. It was like an ocean of knowledge wherein I had the opportunity of working in regulatory domain on behalf of many corporates including my previous companies. Also, we used to handle other cases like family matters, legal opinions on property transactions, cooperative society cases, etc. I closely learnt all the aspects of legal domain,i.e., beginning from client interaction till drafting, filing and appearances before various courts, commissions, and tribunals all over India.

    Later, Mr. Shridhar Prabhu merged his practise with Link Legal and we continued there, as the regulatory practice chunk of the firm till I quit, to get back to corporates.

    I would say all seemed similar except to the extent of cultural difference between the corporate and the firm. Even the appearance was not new to me as I already was already practising for a year and also continued to appear before commissions as an authorised employee of the company I worked with. In addition, even the Government Affairs is similar to practising wherein you have to persuade the government official as to a Judge in the court.

     

    What is your current position and work profile at Solargise India Pvt Ltd? 

    I work as a Manager – Policy and Regulatory Affairs at Solargise India Private Limited. My work profile is not limited to Regulatory and Policy domain but also includes legal work, as usual. SIPL is a UK-based start-up which was incorporated in India recently. Attracted by the government support for solar in India, they started in India with a vision of pioneering in the solar arena. Working in Solargise has provided me the huge exposure to the solar business from scratch.

    My day starts every Morning at 6:00 AM. I jog and exercise for one and half hours and never miss my morning prayers. My work sometimes extends up to 5:00 AM the next morning.  However, lawyers are trained to work till the completion of work and the clock has no role. I never miss to read at least one judgment a day that helps me to update myself with the current legal trends.

     

    Your expertise lies in the Energy sector. Can you tell our readers something about working in this industry?

    Renewable Energy Sector is growing at a fast pace in the given scenario of exhausting fossil fuel and its ill impacts. Working in clean and green energy industry gives you the satisfaction of contributing to society and the future generation. However, as this industry is still in its nascent stage in India, it requires a lot of regulatory support from the government. Hence, a regulatory professional certainly has a significant role to play.

    Further, the renewable business provides you with a 360 degree exposure as it gives you the opportunity to work in all the branches of law from Corporate to Civil and Criminal Laws.

     

    What skills are required to succeed as an in-house counsel? 

    An in-house counsel, one should have the traits of both a lawyer and a businessman. An in-house counsel always acts as a channel between the legal aspects and the management, they should possess the skill of translating legal language to business language. They should know the commercial aspect of the business as the legal work in the corporate culminates from the commercials of the business. I would strongly recommend that an in-house counsel should possess practising and litigation experience to take the right decision. By this, a corporate counsel will have the capacity to visualise the legal risk/consequences and more importantly, identify the aspects culminating to litigation and minimising the same.

     

    What are the challenges you have faced in building your career as it stands today? 

    Major challenge in the career would be to create a balance between the legal and commercial approach. An in-house counsel should be excellent in the same. A decision of a lawyer depends on the laws only. Hence, it is very important to appraise the management about the legal risk or advantages involved in a commercial decision. Further, if the company chooses to take a decision in spite of the legal risk, an in-house counsel is required to be prepared to take steps to mitigate such risks in the best alternative way.

    Though I am always recognised with regulatory, I am equally focused on legal, and government affairs. I feel it’s an advantage to have the opportunity to handle these varied responsibilities, as all are the part of the legal profession.  

    Though I am termed as a regulatory expert, it was the traits of a lawyer which has helped me to stand here. It is my constant endeavour to involve myself in the legal work or keep myself appraised with the legal updates, though I was majorly involved in regulatory affairs.

    A lawyer should possess a dynamic personality and should be having the professional approach. He should be like water, to fit in any situation without having to lose his basic trait. Handling domains like legal, regulatory and government affairs has taught me multitasking while exposing me to an ocean of knowledge. The practising experience have helped me a lot in effectively multitask and handle complex situations.

     

    Do you think your education prepared you for the challenges you have faced?

    Yes I think, legal education does have a very important role and significantly helped me to overcome my challenges.

    Though a law course cannot cover all acts, rules and regulations, still it provides the knowledge about important and basic laws while teaching us the approach. It also induces a sense of awareness, independence, and confidence in you. However, I would also give equal importance to practising to make you a complete law professional.

     

    Did you ever consider pursuing higher studies?

    Yes, it’s definitely on the cards, though time is a constraint. Higher education not only make your resume attractive, but also helps you to explore and learn new areas of law.

    What advice do you have for our readers who are primarily college students?

    I would say in the legal arena, interest is intelligence. Unless you have interest in your work, your knowledge will never help you. As said earlier, the exposure to the court and litigation for some initial years is imperative for an in-house counsel. Otherwise legal knowledge is incomplete. Practising will give you legal perspective to your approach for which you are hired.

    Having said this, I want to mention that I have come from a society and a time where a degree in law or the profession was seen as a last resort for your failed education (not able to obtain seat in any other “good” courses) and the word “Advocate” gave the impression of a person standing in court campus behind his senior wearing a worn out black coat waiting or pleading for the cases or some stipend from his senior. The concept of the job for a lawyer in a corporate or early success and earning were completely alien. However, the scenario is better for law students now as there are plenty of opportunities to begin and grow at a faster pace. I would advise the Law students to keep faith and be undeterred because you are the best. Don’t forget you are stepping towards a very highly dignified profession in the society with a lot of privileges. As it is said “Dharmon Rakshathi Rakshithah”, the profession shall be your dharma, honour it and it will bring honour and protect you.

    Have faith.

     

  • Shivani Chopra, Employment and Litigation Lawyer, Hicks Morley, on Labour Laws, and being a lawyer in Canada

    Shivani Chopra, Employment and Litigation Lawyer, Hicks Morley, on Labour Laws, and being a lawyer in Canada

    Shivani graduated from the first batch of NALSAR, University of Law, Hyderabad in 2003. While at NALSAR, she did different internships including working one summer with Justice K.G. Balakrishnan of the Supreme Court of India. After I graduated, she got recruited by Dr. Reddy’s Labs through On-Campus Interviews. At the same time, she got a full scholarship to do her LL.M. from Dalhousie University in Canada. Once she completed her LL.M., she wrote her Canadian legal equivalency exam to get her Canadian Law degree. She then found an articling position with one of the top twenty law firms in Canada, and after articling, became an associate lawyer with them in January 2008. In January 2016, she became a partner at the law firm and was one of the very few visible minority immigrant women partners at a major law firm in Atlantic Canada. This year, she moved to Toronto and is now practising with Hicks Morley which is considered the top law firm in Canada for management-side Labour and Employment work.
    She has also received the Lexpert Award this year in Canada for achievements in the legal profession. The award was given to 50 women across Canada and she was one of them.

    In this interview we speak to her about:

    • Being a part of NALSAR’s maiden batch
    • Her passion for Labour Laws
    • The Canadian legal regime

    Given that most of our readers are law students, how would you introduce yourself to them?

    I am a litigator at heart who loves the practice of law, and would not trade what I do for anything.

     

    What motivated you to pursue a career in the legal field?

    My Uncle, Dr. Sudhir Chopra, now retired, is a law professor in Europe. He encouraged me to join the legal profession and actually encouraged me to apply to NALSAR. My father, Mr. Pradeep Chopra, is also a lawyer and Engineer. He was the President of a Railway Trade Union Association for most of his career, and was frequently involved in labour disputes. Both of them were instrumental in me joining the legal profession.

     

    Can you tell us about the experience of being a part of NALSAR’s inaugural batch?

    The time I spent at NALSAR were some of the best of my life. The first batch got a lot of tough, but necessary, love from our director at the time, Dr. Ranbir Singh. We worked hard and played hard. To me, the most important part of NALSAR were the internships we did over the course of our five year program. Those internships introduced us to a lot of good legal professionals, gave us our first glimpse into the legal profession, and helped us figure out which direction we wanted our career to head in.

     

    Can you tell us about the kind of internships you engaged in?

    I did a total of eight internships in law school! My most significant internship was with Justice K.G. Balakrishnan, who retired as the Chief Justice of India. Justice Balakrishnan taught me a lot about the legal profession and gave me significant insight into the workings of law. I must mention that he was also one of the kindest and most humble people I have ever encountered in the legal profession. Training under Justice Balakrishnan just further solidified my interest in the legal profession.

     

    What were your areas of interest in law school and how did you cultivate such interests?

    My interest in law school was primarily advocacy. I love a good fight and arguing a case in courtroom is the most fun part of the practice of law – to me. I cultivated that interest by participating in internal moots. I was also part of the University team for the Red Cross Henry Dunant Memorial Moot Court Competition.

    My other interest, and one which I abandoned shortly after law school, was Intellectual Property Law. My LL.M. thesis at Dalhousie University was on an Intellectual Property topic. However, upon completion, I realized that IP and Advocacy would not necessarily go hand in hand. A fight ensued, and my love for Advocacy won!

     

    What was your first job after law school? How did you secure it and what did it teach you?

    My first job after law school (NALSAR) was a position as an IP lawyer with Dr. Reddy’s Lab. I secured it through on-campus recruitment but ended up not working there because I got accepted into the Masters program in Canada.

    In Canada, while taking my legal equivalency exams, I worked as a paralegal in a law firm. I learned the inner workings of a Canadian law firm in that position.

     

    What motivated you to pursue an LLM?

    (Shivani was accepted at Dalhousie University in Canada with a full scholarship to pursue her LLM.)

    I would give a romanticized and idealistic answer to your question, but there isn’t one. I did not want to pursue LL.M. My Uncle and my father insisted that I study more and asked that I apply to Dalhousie University. Had I not done that, I would have had a hard time landing at a top-tier firm. My LL.M. is what separated me from many candidates because candidates who want to join private practice do not often pursue LL.M. It did not necessarily make it easy for me to find a position, but it certainly helped law firms here assess my abilities in the Canadian legal system.

    My advice to readers who are undecided about pursuing higher education would be – do it ! Especially if you plan to move to another country. Higher education will set you apart and may help you find that position you always wanted. Plus, you will have your entire life to work but a little more education never hurt anyone.

     

    How did you secure a scholarship? What can students do to increase their chances of receiving financial aid?

    I had applied for a scholarship at Dalhousie University and had ensured that my thesis proposal was interesting to the University which could increase my chances of securing a scholarship. My tuition fees was fully covered by the University and, in addition to that, I received a small amount for my living expenses. Money was always tight but I was focussed on graduating from the program so lack of money, although challenging, did not impact me much.

    To increase your chance of receiving financial aid, apply to as many universities as you can. Contact professors at the University, discuss financial aid with them, and ask for advise on what may help you secure scholarships. Most Canadian LL.M. programs, at least back when I was studying, consider the strength of your writing proposal and your resume before determining what scholarships you will get. So focus on your resume, get as many internships as you can, and keep your grades up in law school.

    How did you secure an appointment with McInnes Cooper?

    (Shivani initially had an articling position there and then went on to become a Partner.)

    Law students in Canada are required to article/clerk with law firms for a year, with some exceptions, before being called to the Bar. So I applied for an articling position and was hired-back after I finished articling. I became a Partner at the firm in December 2015.

    I was lucky enough to find a great mentor early on in my career. She taught me all I know about the practice of law, and helped shape my legal career. Plus, practice of law is hard work. It is not a 9 to 5 job. I always describe it as being in a medical profession – doctors work endless hours to save lives. Lawyers work endless hours to solve their clients’ problems. I worked very hard, and continue to, to serve clients. I would also say that your home environment plays a tremendous role in how well you do professionally. I have a super-supportive spouse who is just as driven as I am. He has never complained about long hours (he works them too!), or cancelled dinners. That has, over the years, allowed me to focus on the practice of law.

    In terms of the type of work I have handled, I am primarily a litigator and first started my career doing all sorts of litigation work. I eventually focused my practice on employment matters as that is the area that interests me the most.

     

    What prompted the shift to Hicks Morley? What is your job profile there?

    Hicks Morley is well regarded as the top labour/employment firm in Canada. My husband and I had been considering a move to Toronto, and I knew that Hicks Morley would be the place for me – if I was fortunate enough to land there. They made me an offer, and I took it.

    I am an employment and litigation lawyer at Hicks Morley, and work out of their Toronto office. We counsel and represent employers on all sorts of labour and employment matters. Our client-base is spread across Canada and our team works tirelessly to provide top-tier advise to our clients.

    This is what I had always wanted my practice to look like – and I am loving every minute of it!

     

    Can you give our readers some insight into the field of Labour and Employment law?

    Labour and Employment law is fascinating. Never a dull moment – which also means you work hard for your clients. You are dealing with people’s employment matters – which are critical to them. So you need to be responsive, sensitive, and have lots of people skills to thrive in this area of practice – that’s my opinion.

     

    Did you initially find it difficult to familiarise yourself with the Canadian legal system due to having studied law in India?

    Although both India and Canada are common law systems, laws are significantly different. So my articling year was spent on a lot of self-education. I would do a lot of self-teaching and reading when I was given an assignment to even understand what the legal system here was like.
    You pick-up things very quickly though. Six months in and, with self-teaching and good mentoring, I was figuring out things very quickly and settled-in pretty well.

     

    You are one of the few visible minority immigrant women who has done so well in the legal field. What hurdles have you faced in building your career as it stands today? 

    That is very kind, although I think luckily, a lot of immigrant women are doing well in the legal profession. That said, the sad fact is that it can be challenging for immigrants to break into the legal profession due to several reasons: cost of getting your equivalency to the Canadian law degree; finding people who will give you your first break (takes a lot of faith when you don’t understand their educational background); and family circumstances.

    I was trying to break into the profession in 2006. I sent out a large number of applications, networked constantly with potential employers, and interviewed with big and medium-size firms in Canada – before I finally found a position that was of interest to me.

    My advice to younger candidates who are trying to venture out of the country is to be realistic and strategic. Keep your grades up in school; practice at a good firm in India before making the move if you can; get that Masters degree, if possible. And network! You never know who will take you under their wings and help you achieve your goals in the legal profession.

     

    Why did you choose to not return to India?

    I love India. I was born and raised there, and it shaped who I am as a person. Not returning to India was a personal decision. I met my husband, who is also from India, in Canada and he wanted to settle here. So we decided to make Canada our home.

    I have now been living in Canada for about fourteen years and have made it my home. I have been practicing law in Canada for about ten years – so this is home now both personally and professionally. This is the legal system I best know, love, and understand.

    With respect to job opportunities, I can only speak about the Canadian legal market. The legal market in Canada is very competitive. There are lots of great candidates coming out of law schools and so finding a good opportunity takes a lot of time, effort, work, and frankly good luck. And to be honest, it is even more competitive for international students and immigrants– because you are the “unknown commodity”. Law firms and corporations may have a hard time figuring out how your experience compares to that of the Canadian candidates. That said, if you work hard and stay focussed, you will achieve that position you are looking for.

    What advice do you have for our readers who are primarily college students?

    Figure out what you want to do in your career and, if possible, plan your every move around it. Use your breaks to do those internships. They are more important than you realize – they help strengthen your resume so use your summer and winter breaks to get quality internships.
    Work hard but play hard too. I had a lot of fun in law school. Made tremendous life-long friendships and it helped shape me into the person I am today.

    One final advice – choose your career wisely. If you love what you do, you will do it well and effectively. There is nothing worse than joining a profession because you are being told to do that – if you don’t enjoy it, chances are you will not last in it.

    Thanks so much for reaching out.

  • Rajeev Nair, Principal Associate, Rajani Associates, on being a Company Secretary, and his experience in Corporate Law

    Rajeev Nair, Principal Associate, Rajani Associates, on being a Company Secretary, and his experience in Corporate Law

    Rajeev Nair graduated in law from Mumbai University, in 2007. He is also a qualified Company Secretary. He has experience of around ten years in the areas of corporate laws, corporate acquisitions, mergers and demergers, joint venture transactions, corporate restructuring, private equity transactions, due diligence, general corporate, corporate legal compliances, negotiations and drafting of the transactional documents, setting up investment funds, debt transactions and real estate private equity transactions.

    In this interview we speak to him about:

    • Pursuing the CS course with law
    • Working at Rajani Associates
    • His experience in corporate law

    How would you like to introduce yourself to our readers?

    I am a first generation Corporate Lawyer. During my early days of law studies, I got attracted towards the subject of Corporate Laws and was fascinated by it, not just because of it being glamorous/ high paying arena, though I admit the Corporate Law field has grown multi folds in the past decade or so. Thus, I decided to choose a career in Corporate Laws and here I am sharing my thoughts and experiences in my journey as a Corporate law professional.

    Presently, I am a Principal Associate at Rajani Associates, a Mumbai based full service law firm. I am part of the Mergers and Acquisitions team at Rajani Associates.  

     

    What made you decide to pursue a career in law and take up studies for being a company secretary at the same time?  

    Frankly speaking, after completing my Commerce graduation, I was (like most of the people at that stage) contemplating exploring certain career options. Among them, the foremost being to study law, though, I would not attribute any particular reason to it. Subsequently, during my first year at law college (Jitendra Chauhan College of Law, Mumbai), I found a growing interest towards the sphere of Corporate Laws such as Companies Act, SEBI laws, Income Tax, etc. I was keen on studying those subjects in depth and somehow found a natural liking towards them and wished to be a specialist. At this stage of my career, I thought an additional educational qualification catering to this desire would be ideal for my career. Hence, I decided to pursue Company Secretary (CS) course, along with my law studies. The reason for me opting for the CS course was owing to the fact that it is ideal for professionals who wish to specialise in corporate laws, and the CS syllabus provided an opportunity for me to study my favourite subjects in depth. This way, I tried to manage both my law as well as CS studies, though I must admit that I found it very difficult to manage both simultaneously. But, I believe, that there would be no gain without any pain, and thus applied my all focus to juggle my law and CS studies together.

     

    What are your areas of interest in the legal field? How did you discover and cultivate such interests?

    As discussed earlier, during my early days at law college, I found growing affinity towards the subject of Corporate laws – Companies Act, SEBI laws, Income Tax etc. and was keen to study further and in depth in these subjects. I always wanted to be known as a corporate law professional with an intent to constantly learn and improve the requisite skills. As a student, I began following the developments in the corporate world through the internet, newspapers, business newsletters etc. and started cultivating habits which would enhance my professional prospects and help propel my career in the arena of corporate laws. As such, this became my professional ecosystem, thereby leading me eventually to become a corporate lawyer.

    You were a company secretary at Cello. Can you briefly tell us about the work profile of  a CS? 

    Right after I qualified as a Company Secretary, I joined the Cello Group of companies – which was famous for its pens, writing instruments, cookware and other products. Essentially, I was responsible for the compliances of Corporate laws and Corporate governance norms for certain Cello group companies. Here I was, immediately after qualifying as a CS, being appointed at a responsible position, which being a statutory requirement. Frankly speaking, initially I felt like I was sitting on a hot seat as I was being responsible for the Corporate laws for the well-known companies and was answerable to the management, the foreign investors, the auditors and government authorities and all of which seemed very daunting initially. As a CS, you are also required to sign the financials of the company along with the directors. All this accountability for a freshly qualified profession appeared to be sufficiently intimidating. They say that you learn swimming when you are thrown at the deep end of the pool. My experience at Cello was somewhat similar to that. I learnt many things – essentially accountability, responsibility and being confident. Generally, I have realised over the years that you learn the best lessons of your life when you are put in a challenging position, when you are tested, and not when you get things easily, without any effort. I admit, when you undergo a challenging phase, the first thing that comes to your mind is when I would get out of this situation soon. With experience, you get wiser and you learn to deal with challenging times in better manner. But for that, you have to face the difficult circumstances and undergo the ‘process’, however grueling it may be. No two ways about it.     

     

    What motivated you to leave your position as a Company Secretary and enter the legal field?

    During my tenure as a Company Secretary at Cello, I realised that I wanted to do something more than looking after the Corporate law compliances and overseeing the Corporate Governance function. I wanted to have the exposure to a wide gamut of corporate and commercial laws where I would get the opportunity to work on my drafting skills, advise clients and provide solutions to them on their various legal issues, understand their commercial understandings for different transactions and experience other related things. Then, I thought of giving a shot at work with a law firm. I was criticized and also cautioned by people around me, as life at a law firm was considered tough and challenging (not denying that even today) with deadlines and late working hours. However, I had decided that I wanted to give it a try as I realised that if I don’t try, I would never realise what it is like actually working at a law firm. I was ready and made up my mind that come what may, I would proceed and give it a crack with a lot of conviction. I told myself that if I don’t succeed, I would stick to my CS profession. It’s just that I never wanted to sit and regret having not giving honest try. This is how my career change took place – from CS to law. This is where I learnt that if you want to achieve something, you should want to achieve that badly and have a junoon (urdu word, read in the sense of having unflinching dedication and absolute focus towards achieving a particular thing) for that respective thing and at the same time be ready for failures as well. The failure (depends what you choose to call it – I prefer referring to it as stepping stone) should not bog you down. This may sound cliché but this true. I can now say this as ‘I have been there and done that’ – though still a long way to go. Not at all boasting, but saying this only to encourage the young lawyers who are on the verge of joining or have just joined the legal profession.

     

    How did you secure an appointment at Rajani Associates?

    As I pointed out above, I was making a career change from CS to law and I was not joining the legal profession after my law graduation. Due to this, I have to be candid, I found it relatively difficult to find opportunities to work at a law firm. Here, at Rajani Associates, after a lot of search, and almost giving up on my desire to work at a law firm, I eventually got an opportunity to work in a law firm and continue my journey of Corporate laws – the settings changing from CS to a law firm. I thank Rajani Associates to have provided me an opportunity to work with them and providing me professional enriching experience.

    At the outset, I experienced certain difficulties, as I was not a fresh law graduate (who generally goes through various internships during their law college days and are thus aware of the things to expect and well aware of the law firm ‘culture’) but here I was a professional who was making a career change (from CS to law) and trying to get a footing in a law firm. As long as you know what you want, it becomes easier to face challenging times as you already have a motivation to get through the tough phase. Here after joining a law firm, I got an opportunity to do things what I desired and thus was ready to overcome the initial challenging phase. It was definitely a substantial change for me career wise to join a law firm. But with clarity, patience, and support of my colleagues, I took some time and got in sync and became part of a law firm system. This was possible because I knew what I was doing and in which direction I am going.

    In a nutshell, I can say that there was a major change in my attitude from working as a CS that compared with working as a corporate lawyer.  

    All I can say is that it has been truly a memorable and enriching experience working at Rajani Associates as I have got to experience many things which I always wanted to learn prior to joining Rajani Associates. Mr. Prem Rajani, Managing Partner of Rajani Associates, has been truly inspirational and has guided me all through. I thank him for keeping faith in me and my abilities and providing an opportunity to work with the firm. The work environment at Rajani Associates is truly like one big family which helps in having a positive and upbeat work environment. The work environment goes a long way in shaping your professional development and it helps further if you have positive, motivated and hardworking colleagues working with you – as is the case at Rajani Associates.     

     

    As a Principal Associate, how is your work profile different from an associate who has freshly joined?

    Initially, as junior lawyer, I was very eager and looking to learn and absorb every aspect pertaining to working as a lawyer in a law firm. Over the years, apart from the laws, I have learnt many things at Rajani Associates, including the importance of research work, the client interactions and advisory, drafting and negotiating commercial documents, knowledge management, etc. At the start, if one needs to succeed in any particular field, you need to have the focus and sincerity and keep learning the necessary things, never stop. Now, after graduating to a senior position, life is a bit different in the sense, you work on matters independently, you have to do client management, work on areas of development of the firm which includes writing research materials, newspaper publications, you are also involved in training the new lawyers and guiding them through various aspects of the law field and provide more practical insights which they may not necessarily get to experience while at law college. As such, life after joining a law firm did change to a certain extent and now after spending certain years at the law firm, life has definitely undergone a major change and undoubtedly with a sense of satisfaction of having taken the plunge of joining a law firm. At the start of the career, you learn the essentials of the profession and your focus is on building your foundation blocks of the profession and once when you progress to a senior level, your focus areas/ role in the firm change accordingly.

     

    Can you tell us a little bit about the nature of work in the field of corporate law and what qualities one should develop to succeed in this field?

    I work in the Mergers and Acquisitions team at Rajani Associates. As such, my work areas include working on Companies Act, SEBI laws, Competition laws, Income Tax, Foreign Exchange laws and related subjects. Here you do transactions such as acquisitions, Mergers, Amalgamations and required to merge the laws with the commercial understanding of your clients. You are required to negotiate for your clients with a view to protect their interests and draft the transaction documents accordingly. There is a strong element of responsibility and accountability and considering the high commercial stakes of your clients, you have to take adequate care to uphold the interests of your client. This further becomes complicated by ever evolving and constantly changing ecosystem of corporate laws. Thus, you are always on your toes and need to keep oneself updated with the latest amendments of law as otherwise it will not augur well for you professionally. Thus, you need to work and focus on constantly updating yourself with respect to the Corporate laws, develop on drafting and negotiation skills and client management. If one wishes to join the corporate laws arena, one need to have flair for these things.         

     

    Did you ever consider pursuing higher education? 

    As I have already discussed above, I pursued my CS course, along with my law studies, as I wanted to study further and specialise in the areas of corporate laws. Thus, according to me, higher studies is very subjective matter. It is for every individual professional as to decide for higher education/ additional educational qualification. According to me, additional education qualification should be taken up if any one feels that the same is to their liking or which would further enhance their already chosen career path. Merely adding degrees, though may look good on the face of it, but will not yield desired result if pursued only for the purpose of ‘showing off’ or expecting that ‘magic’ will happen with the additional degrees. I say this with due respect to the people doing further studies/ additional courses and do not intend to ridicule them. Thus, ideally speaking, an individual should introspect and accordingly decide as far as higher education/ additional degrees are concerned.    

     

    How do you maintain a work life balance given the challenging nature of your job?

    As I have already pointed out, the work life at Rajani Associates is very positive and like a family. Due to this, there is a positive impact on my work and coupled with the fact that I work alongside hard working, understanding and friendly colleagues. It is indeed difficult to maintain work life balance, but the experience gained over the years help immensely to attain that and as with experience you become wiser and are better equipped to handle things at work place and if you have a very understanding and encouraging work place like Rajani Associates, it only acts as a catalyst in your pursuit of striking a work life balance.

     

    How can law students prepare to increase their chances of securing jobs at law firms?

    Most Important, know what you wish to do. Your internships, interactions with your seniors, your peers should help you understand/identify which stream of law you wish to go for. I believe this is the age of specialisation as the clients are increasingly looking for that as the complexities in every field has grown multi-fold. As such you need to understand your objective so that you can dedicate your focus and keep working towards a particular goal. Accordingly, the law students should apply to the law firms which they believe would provide a platform for harnessing their career professionally (monetary benefits will follow and should not be a primary criteria). If one is not sure where one needs to go or what one needs to do, then it becomes very difficult. Law firms would also welcome those law students (at least the chances are much higher), who are confident and have a certain clarity in mind as to what one wishes to do.  

     

    What advice do you have for our readers who are primarily college students?

    Life teaches you many things, every second is learning experience. So when life does not stop teaching, you also don’t stop learning things and in the process becoming a better person and professional in your chosen arena.

    Identify the area of your interest. Introspect yourself as to where your liking is. This will help you a lot in choosing a right career path. I understand that in today’s age, there are lot of activities happening at law colleges, then you have internships, social media, etc. Absorb and learn as much as possible from all these things and identity your passion, your liking and where you can solely focus and dedicate yourself. Only then you will be able to accomplish greater things. This is because, you will attain joy only in doing what you like. It is said, “Do what you love, and you’ll never work another day in your life”. Money should not be the primary or sole criteria. Do the work what you like and enjoy, you will do a great job and money will definitely follow, as was famously said in the Hindi film 3 Idiots – try to be competent, success will surely follow.

    Also, there is no substitute for hard work. The profession is such that you have to constantly update yourself; learn, unlearn and relearn, no substitute for that. Also, when you are young and new to the profession, you have lot of enthusiasm, passion and energy, but in most of the cases, the passion and energy tends to wane over a period of time. It is important to sustain that passion and drive towards your career and never allow it to diminish, only then you would achieve remarkable success and most importantly, do your work with sincerity. I believe, you don’t do your work seriously but do it with sincerity. You can fool others, but not yourself. For this, you have to constantly learn, improvise, look for betterment in your work. As commonly said, you should keep the fire in you burning always, so that you always come out as a better professional in each of your professional endeavours. As a music lover, I would end on a musical note, and in order to summarise my advice, would quote the song “Never Give Up” from the Hollywood movie Lion to the young lawyers – wonderful song with amazing lyrics, truly inspirational.   

  • Dhruv Sahai, Managing Director, Sentio Advisory Initiative, on Labour Laws, working at AZB, and his experience

    Dhruv Sahai, Managing Director, Sentio Advisory Initiative, on Labour Laws, working at AZB, and his experience

    Dhruv graduated in law from ILS Law College, Pune, in 2009. After starting his career with AZB & Partners in M&A, and spending two years in that role, he decided to join his father’s business of conducting labor law audits across supply chains for multinational brands. Six months later, he set up his current company which specializes in Labor Law Consultation and Development & Implementation of Appropriate Remediation Systems.

    In this interview we speak to him about:

    • His time at AZB & Partners
    • His passion for Labour Laws
    • His experience thus far

    How would you like to introduce yourself to our readers?

    Foodie, comic, lawyer: those are the three words that describe me best.

     

    Why did you choose to pursue a future in law?

    Throughout my childhood, school, and most part of my life, I have always been in the habit of questioning everything around me, trying to identify logic behind every system, policy, action, etc. It was this trait within my nature that pushed me towards pursuing law.

     

    What are your areas of expertise, and how did you come about them?

    My area of expertise is Labor Laws & General Corporate. I garnered all my experience in General Corporate during my time with AZB & Partners, and advising my friends/ family in their business ventures and disputes. Labor Law is something I learnt through a hands-on approach. I worked within supply chains advising my clients on the legal requirements and evolved this further by assisting their suppliers in developing and implementing sustainable remediation systems to meet these requirements.

     

    What is, according to you, the right time to focus on specialization?

    The right time for specialization is when you have explored all the options available to you. This can be achieved by pursuing a variety of internships from the time you start law school. Intern with law firms, litigation specialists, social organizations, MNCs and Government/quasi-government bodies to gain knowledge about what the different fields of law entail; once you have the necessary amount of information, make your choice!

     

    Please tell us a bit about your experience as a student at the ILS University, Pune. 

    Moving to Pune was a complete change from Delhi and with no hostel culture we were to manage on our own in our own apartments. ILS had the best class timings which were 7 AM till 11 AM, allowing us most of the day to ourselves. I loved participating in moot courts and also pursued related courses from other institutions. The ILS campus is one of the greenest campuses from what I have seen; there was also a hill behind our classrooms, to where we would do an occasional trek, followed by a picnic.

     

    What were your key areas of interest in academics? 

    M&A and Labor Laws were my key areas of interest. Apart from this, I have always had an interest in the culinary arts and loved hosting cookouts for my friends while I was in college.

     

    Did you have any specific pattern of approach regarding selection of the internships?

    My approach was simple; start interning from year one and fit in at-least two internships each year. Each internship should be different from the previous one, allowing me to explore the different career options that I would have post completing law school. I started my internship with a mid- level law firm, followed by an MNC, a social organization, a top-tier law firm, a senior advocate, a start-up, a consultancy firm , a quasi-government organization, and finally, the last one at AZB & Partners.

     

    What would be your advice to the law interns? 

    The advice would be to interact as much as possible with their seniors and volunteer to do as much work as they can. Top- tier law firms give you the opportunity to garner experience in numerous fields of law, but you have to take the initiative to regularly ask for work. While some look at proof- reading exercises as merely clerical work, one could actually use this opportunity to master the art of drafting agreements. Top-tier law firms like to see initiative, perspective & persistence.

     

    How was the work environment at AZB Partners, one of the top legal firms of the country?

    Amazing! My seniors always pushed me to do more and to get better each day. I consider myself blessed to have worked with the people I did. The partner I reported to continues to be my mentor till date and will remain to do so. While competition between associates was encouraged, it was ensured that this was healthy and beneficial. Everyone was willing to help and there was never a dull moment.

     

    What are the causes you strongly feel and champion for?

    Workers’ welfare within the various tiers of the supply chains and taking responsibility to prevent environmental degradation. This is what I strongly feel about and this is why I do what I do.

     

    How far do you think growth in the development sector has reached till now?

    (Dhruv works with various state and central government Ministries regarding social and rural development across the country- including implementing and developing CSR initiatives.)

    Under the current Government, things are moving in a positive direction. More initiatives have been introduced, and with Skill India & Make in India initiatives a huge number of people are being provided with employment opportunities, not just in India but across the Globe.

     

    Tell us about your role in human rights and development causes as the Managing Director at Sentio Advisory Initiative Pvt. Ltd.

    I consider my biggest achievement is to have moved numerous multinational brands away from the practice of conducting labor law based audits where they would pass or fail their suppliers, to a consultative approach where they follow a transparent & collaborative approach to ensure adherence to both local & international law requirements. Another achievement which I’d like to mention is being asked to compile a Guidance Handbook on Social Compliances for the Indian Handicrafts Industry by the Export Council for Handicrafts in India. This book summarized all important labor regulations of India as well as the International Labor Organization and provided blueprints of multiple systems that could be implemented to ensure adherence to the same.

    Looking in hindsight, what would be your proud moments of glory?

    Starting my career with AZB & Partners and being awarded a Token of Appreciation from the Government of India for my contribution in the Handicrafts Manufacturing Sector.

     

    How do you manage to balance your time between the corporate world and the social world?

    When you enjoy doing what you do, the balance comes automatically.

     

    Where do you see yourself in the near future?

    Hopefully, as a successful social entrepreneur and as a venture capitalist promoting social entrepreneurship.

     

    What are the developments in environment laws in the last couple of years?

    While the modifications to the laws have been limited, the monitoring has become a lot stricter.  With many Indian companies participating in the Higgs Index program and other International Environment Initiatives, things are beginning to move in the right direction.

     

    Any message you want to share to our readers?

    Life is a lesson, keep learning each day. Most importantly, do not let your passion be substituted for money. My ex- boss and mentor once said to me-“Dhruv, do not run after money, and one day, money will run after you”.  While I didn’t believe him then, I do now!                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     

  • Shellen Bajaj, Partner, A&A Law, on the Indian legal education regime, mooting, and his diverse experience

    Shellen Bajaj, Partner, A&A Law, on the Indian legal education regime, mooting, and his diverse experience

    Shellen Bajaj graduated in law from Campus Law Center, Delhi University, in 1992. After successful stints with Times Internet Limited (The digital venture of Times of India Group), and Emaar MGF Land Limited (EMGF), he is currently Partner at  A & A Law. He has an experience of over two decades in handling corporate matters, including corporate advisory on infrastructure regulation and compliances, and real estate, which also includes performing due diligence and title search of the properties for client assistance and knowledge.

    In this interview we speak to him about:

    • The legal regime back in his day
    • His time in Delhi University
    • His diverse experience

    How would you like to introduce yourself to our readers?

    As a first generation lawyer and being from a business family, I barely had any clarity on the path to success in the legal sphere. One thing which I was clear on, however, was that I had no inclination to join my family business.

    As soon as I passed out from Campus Law Center, Delhi, I joined the Delhi High Court, where I got associated with Mr. Adarsh Dial Sr. Adv. who happened to be an old family friend. Mr. Dial was on the panel of a couple of PSUs and various banks. I got initiated into litigation and actively litigated for ten years. I have always taken life head on and have treated challenges as opportunities. I feel whatever has to be done should be done without any postponement.

    I am a hardcore positivist and feel everything which one conceives is achievable, notwithstanding the hardships one finds on the way to success. Given my attitude towards life I got a chance to get into a corporate job, after ten years of active litigation, as I saw an opportunity to see law from the business perspective. Due to my family background I never felt that I could or would ever sustain in a ‘job’ environment, but I well managed it for over ten years as head of legal for various companies. I personally feel that if one is open and hardworking, the doors to success are always open. Restrictions are always in the mind.

    Having tried both the fields i.e Litigation and Corporate I feel litigation has no glass ceiling and am therefore back into active practices as a Partner in A & A Law. I have traversed and actually enjoyed both to the fullest.

     

    Tell us the best and worst things about your law school experience.

    My initiation to the Campus Law Centre (CLC) was not because I had any preconceived notions to take up law practice as my main vocation, but merely to stay in the campus three more years in order to avoid my family business. It was while studying law, that I realised that it made a great subject as there is no sphere of life which is untouched by the vast and ever increasing expanse.

    During my time at the faculty of law we had some incredible professors teaching us. Noteworthy ones being Prof. Upendra Baxi, Prof. Dr. M.C. Sharma, Dr. Nomita Aggarwal, Mr. T.D. Sethi, Mr. K.B. Rohatgi to name a few.

    Life in the law faculty was pretty easy during those days. We did not bother much about attendance, internships, moots, etc., which now have become major issues, especially with the five year courses. So much so that the students are being debarred from taking their exams in case they are short on attendance and internships have become a part and parcel of the curriculum. However, the five year courses these days, though strenuous and nerve wracking at times, help students to find their focus sooner and provide more exposure. The importance attributed to internships these days also is an important aspect of today’s legal education.

    The best experiences at CLC would include the time spent with friends, teachers, understanding law and its application, as also the regular ideation sessions with peers and mentors, which eventually came in handy in the creation and development of multiple businesses.

    I do feel that my time at the Faculty of Law would have academically been more fulfilling had the college itself taken the course more seriously, and that is something I still feel about the institution, specially after talking to DU students who are currently pursuing law or are done with their course.

     

    What are the subjects that you took particular interest in, during your law school days?

    Law interested me right from the start. As a law student one begins to appreciate the vastness of the corpus of laws that lawyers deal with in the course of their regular business. With this understanding also came the realisation that not everything can be rote learnt and that it is important for a law student to understand the essence of the law and to know how the law needs to be referred to and applied in the given circumstance.

    That being said, there are, of course, certain subjects that require more effort and that form the basis of a lawyer’s day to day functioning. Subjects like Constitutional law, CPC, CrPC, Law of contract, etc. were the ones that I paid greater attention to because of this reason. These were the ones that then became my favourites, not by chance, but almost by design.

    One thing which I realised later and keep telling youngsters, is that nothing which one does is irrelevant, however immaterial it might seem at that given point in time. Everything adds up to one’s overall experience and the learning never fails you. So give everything and every subject your hundred percent at the present moment and it is sure to bring you results at the most opportune moment.

     

    How important is mooting, in the life of a law student?

    I got my law degree back in 1992. That was a time when law was an entirely different ball game, not in terms of its content, not so much in the way that lawyers practised it, but more in terms of the way students approached it. In our minds, it wasn’t as competitive, it wasn’t as rigorous as it is now and we could still have it easy at least while we were in law school. During our times there were no entrance exams for the law course, there weren’t any for getting enrolled into the bar either.

    For us, actual rigours of the profession began only after college was over; that was more or less the perception that we were operating with. I don’t mean to sound like I was an aimless student then, but really, that was the kind of environment in which we became lawyers, because that was a time when the ‘smarter’, more ‘intelligent’ students of the lot were either pursuing engineering, medicine, etc. In short, everything that was far removed from the ‘arts’ stream as it was commonly referred to back in the day.

    Law, for students now, is a far more serious course than it was for us. Law schools are simmering with competition as more and more young minds gravitate towards careers in law. In such an environment I feel mooting is of utmost importance. Not only does it provide students with a break from class room learning, but it also gives them opportunities to learn and grow.

    That mooting doesn’t serve the purpose, according to me, is a myth. There are students who feel that it doesn’t accurately portray how courts work. That may be partially true, however, the pros of mooting in my view outweigh the cons by a substantial margin. It develops in students the essential skills of researching, developing innovative lines of argument in consonance with the law, drafting and withstanding the questioning of seasoned and learned judges, which they are bound to face in their future, no matter what line they eventually tend to tow. Mooting skills go a long way in transforming these students into effective lawyers. So yes, mooting in my view is an irreplaceable part of one’s experience as a law student, I’ve always encouraged students, including my son, to actively participate in them. I believe it does make a distinct difference.

     

    What are your areas of specialisation and how did you go about choosing these fields?

    I started out in the High Court here in Delhi and have dealt with all kinds of cases which came my way. The only choice during those days was not to accept the brief being offered, which I never refused. Every case provides loads of learning if dealt with properly.
    In 2002, as luck could have it, I got the opportunity to work as an in-house counsel for Benett Coleman and Company Ltd., for their internet division, Times Internet Limited. I took it as a challenge as I have never feared trying out new things. I joined the group as a legal manager and set up the entire legal team. I learned about the internet and the possibilities it could offer on the go. I also got great exposure in print media, radio, television and even in outdoor domains. We worked extensively for variety of businesses such as ad sales, travel, ticketing, hospitality, inventory sales, online auctions, telecom etc. as well as legally documented various new businesses. One of the major challenges was to offer a ‘game of chance’ for the public, equivalent to gambling in legal terms, through SMS and the internet. Being online exposed the said business to being present pan India at once. I realised that being the part of a business one needed a change in the perspective and effectively facilitate the way to do business, while ensuring that nothing illegal was done or caused.

    It was a formidable experience working with the corporates and gave me quiet an insight into the dos and don’ts of handling the legality of the business from the front, including managing the compliances, IPRs and other legalese. While in Times, I provided the documentation for the Indiatimes.com website, including the privacy policies, terms and conditions for the entire business paradigm for the main website as well as various other sub domains under the Indiatimes brand which were not there before I had joined. I got to interact with the likes of Google, Yahoo, Amadeus etc., the leaders in their respective domains. Another feat was to create legal templates for the ease of business, which not only saved time and effort but also provided a comprehensive ballpark for the proper conduct of the business.

    I was always connected to the litigation side, even as an in-house counsel. I obtained multiple stay orders from the Delhi High Court including staying operations of even international websites who were masquerading themselves as being a part of the Times group, by flouting / stalking on the IPRs of the organisation. I was soon promoted as the Vice President of the company. I was associated to the Times Group for over seven years and post leaving times, I joined EmaarMGF where I dealt with legal nuances of PPPs pertaining to SEZs, including residential housings, and golf courses. I also dealt with EPC, CFA contracts, arbitrations, etc. I also worked with Monnet Ispat and Energy Ltd. The Hon’ble Supreme Court cancelled the mines of the private sector and there were subsequent changes in the laws pertaining to the mining sector which brought in the new phase of e-auctioning. Those were eventful times for the mining sector as the cancellation marked the change in the entire paradigm of legal implications.

    By this time I was more or less done with my SWOT analysis and thought of returning to my second home, i.e. litigation, as I found it to be better suited to my lifestyle and I needed greater independence at work. One of my dear friends Mr. Sanjay Aggarwal, whom I had known from CLC days and had a great understanding with, had started a law firm by the name of A & A Law. He offered me to join him as a partner in this firm and the rest is history. The areas of my specialization today are consultancy in the fields of corporate transactional documentation, hospitality, EPC contracting, IPRs, property related documentation and of course litigation.

     

    At what stage in one’s law school life must one pick a specialisation?

    As soon as one understands their areas of interest, one must choose his or her areas of specialization.
    However, there are various considerations that go into choosing specialisations based upon the areas of interest, his/her skill set, prospects of material gain, etc. Some students tend to favour areas of law which are still developing in comparison to others, the niche areas so to say, and I feel there has been no better time than now to scout for opportunities in these ever expanding new legal arenas where law tries to regulate unprecedented behaviours, transactions, technologies, so on and so forth.

    I do feel, however, that the choice of a specialisation must rest more on interest than on any other consideration, because more often than not, in a field such as law, it is easy to lose interest and motivation, given the overtly academic nature of our business which needs motivated and driven individuals if they are to act as the machinery that transforms the law.

    So, my advice will be that students follow their interests and chose a specialisation that they feel can continue to interest them and motivate them to work years after they’ve chosen it. I feel skill without interest is akin to a rocket fitted with a car’s engine, it leads to wastage of potential. On the other hand, interest without skill leads to skill development, thereby transforming the car into a rocket.

    I’m glad about the fact that in recent times, interning for a specified duration of time has been made mandatory in law courses, it equips students to make better informed choices about what areas they want to specialise in.

     

    How important are grades, in your opinion?

    This is something I feel very strongly about. Of course, having a son in his fourth year of law gives me greater insight into this topic. Ask any student pursuing a master’s degree in law, and the answer without a shade of doubt will be yes. For LLM aspirants, especially the ones who wish to do it from colleges and universities abroad, it is a rat race, they need to score and they need to score higher than the people they are competing with because grades are a major objective criterion on which their applications will be accepted or rejected. I’m not implying that grades alone will land them colleges, but they do play a substantial part.

    As far as litigation is concerned, fortunately, it is a field where only performance matters. No judge will dismiss a good argument simply because the lawyer making it did not have satisfactory grades in college. It may, however, impact an individual’s employability, both in corporate jobs and in litigation, though that isn’t necessary. On the employability front, I feel we owe a duty of care to young lawyers who are freshly out of law schools to refrain from judging them solely on their grades or overplaying the importance of grades while judging them. The approach has to be subjective as far as possible because intelligence or potential doesn’t necessarily translate into marks.

    In light of whatever I have stated here, there can be no definite answer to “how important are grades”. This is a question that can only be answered within a certain context, so grades hold variable importance in my view.

    The Indian legal education system is conducive to learning, though partially, and only for some students. The Bar Council of India governs the Indian legal education system, or at least practises oversight, stipulating basic attendance norms, laying down the subjects which are necessary to be taught etc. The real problem lies with the implementation of these policies and stipulations. Universities and colleges are given considerable autonomy in deciding how to test students and how to teach. In fact, these colleges, at least in practice, are free to implement the attendance policies of the Bar Council as they please which results in a wide disparity in the way question papers are set in different universities, how subjects are taught and how attendance concessions are granted. In some colleges there is emphasis on application based learning which is undoubtedly the best way to teach and understand the law, in some institutions teaching is merely a matter of making students rote learn bare acts. Likewise, the evaluation of a student’s prowess is also far from uniform, with some institutions setting purely theory based question papers and others asking application based questions.

    What is most disturbing is the amount of autonomy that these institutions have in administering attendance norms. It may not exist on paper, but it does exist in practice. I am an alumnus of the CLC, and do not believe that it is controversial anymore to say that strictness regarding attendance, at least in DU, is mild and the status quo remains maintained till date. On the other hand there are pending matters in courts regarding students getting debarred from appearing for examinations and being made to repeat entire academic years for paucity of attendance. There was recently an incident where a student committed suicide for the same reason and this is serious, it is a serious problem that is plaguing our education system. Norms are created to ensure that there is uniformity, there is no abuse of process, then how is it that institutions are allowed to act in such an arbitrary fashion?

    There are colleges which refuse to grant attendance concessions for activities like mooting as well, which require time and which the Bar Council prescribes as essential to any legal course and then there are institutions granting up to 30 percent attendance concessions for the same. There are innumerable cases where medical certificates have been refused and students have been made to repeat years for valid illnesses. There are even institutes that lack students grievance redressal forums which I feel are a basic right of every student. I could give endless examples of such disparities which can potentially go on to unduly harm students, but I doubt any reader will have that kind of time or patience.

    I do not support an unnecessarily strict and insensitive implementation of the 75% attendance rule, I know of no lawyer who has made a mark in our profession simply because he or she attended 75% of their lectures. Lawyers are made of more than an attendance percentage. I feel, if an eighteen year old has the right to choose who governs our country, I feel he or she must also have to right to decide whether they wish to attend a lecture, to intern, or moot. I’m not suggesting that this be an absolute right, I am merely suggesting that an implementation of this rule to the prejudice of a student cannot be justified, morally or academically.

    In conclusion, I feel that our legal education system is conducive to learning but only for some and it can be made so for all if there is better implementation and oversight of the policies laid down by the Bar. There needs to be a check on the way institutions behave and there is a need for the legal fraternity to understand that a student, struggling to maintain his/her grades, while trying to build a presentable CV while fighting to prevent possibly debarment for not meeting the 75% threshold in most cases has neither time nor means to move court against his/her own college or university. Therefore, there needs to be a mechanism to keep a check on educational institutions and a legally protected right to students grievance redressal.

     

    What, in your opinion, are viable options for a law graduate to consider on completion of his/her undergraduate course?

    Options in life are only as viable as you make them. The viability of post graduation options depends on the personal liking. Getting into litigation or working for Corporates, Indian or MNCs are both favourable.

    However, the interest an individual has in a certain subject is paramount. It is important for an individual to analyse the pros and cons of either field. The main difference being that the returns as an in house counsel start to come in the day one joins the organisation, including compulsive savings which form a part of one’s remuneration, whereas litigation takes a few years of gestation. There are various aspects to litigation as there are various advocates taking their pick from the vast paraphernalia leading to the management of the entire process from pre-legal notice to post execution of the decree. For example, in case the individual wishes to concern himself more with drafting/research work and not so much with appearing before the court, one may join a law firm and get to work as a team to reach the final objective in a matter. On the other hand, if one likes arguing matters one needs to practice that craft. Again, it depends on the individual to choose relevant areas in both.

     

    Is there any other suggestion you would like to give to our budding lawyers?

    Of course, for any student reading this, specially anyone who may have skipped a few of my answers, my suggestion is, do read all of them, you’d find a lot of suggestive content to help you along your chosen path.

  • Bhushan Shah, Partner, Mansukhlal Hiralal & Company, on clearing the Bombay Solicitor examination, and working at Tier-I firms

    Bhushan Shah, Partner, Mansukhlal Hiralal & Company, on clearing the Bombay Solicitor examination, and working at Tier-I firms

    Bhushan Shah graduated in law from GLC, Mumbai, in 2005. He then went on to pursue his Masters at NYU@NUS. After successful stints at J. Sagar Associates, Drew & Napier LLC, and Khaitan & Co., he is currently Partner at Mansukhlal Hiralal & Company. Bhushan heads the corporate team of the firm. He focuses on corporate and commercial transactions such as strategic investments, mergers & acquisitions, joint ventures and general corporate law advisory. Bhushan has also advised clients on inbound and outbound investments as well as structures requiring India entry strategies. Bhushan also has experience in securities litigation and has represented clients on several contentious cases before Securities Appellate Tribunal and Supreme Court of India.

    In this interview we speak to him about:

    • His time as an undergraduate at Government Law College, Mumbai
    • Studying in NYU@NUS
    • His experience at Tier-I firms

    How would you like to introduce yourself to our readers?

    I would like to introduce myself as a (a) Lawyer; (b)Runner; and (c) Soka Gakkai Buddhist member.

    I have been a practicing lawyer for over ten years now. Earlier, I used to style myself as a corporate lawyer. However, over the last five years, i.e. after joining Mansukhlal Hiralal & Co. (Mansukhlal), besides practicing corporate law, I have also been engaging in substantial litigation and real estate transactions. I am enjoying my diverse practice of corporate law, dispute resolution and real estate law.

    As a runner, I have participated in more than ten half marathons and two full marathons. I started running as a stress-buster from the hectic work schedule of a lawyer and it has now become a passion for me.

    Besides running and practicing law, I also follow SGI Buddhism. It is a philosophy which believes that one’s happiness lies in their own hands. As a lawyer, it is common to blame your boss, colleagues, clients etc for one’s hectic work schedule. In this chaos, practicing SGI Buddhism, gives me a sense of calmness and gives me the strength to step up and take responsibility of my work and to keep going.

     

    Tell us a little about your days in law school. 

    I am a Bombay boy. I did my basic schooling and college from Mumbai. I graduated as a Bachelor of Commerce in 2002 from Jai Hind College, Mumbai University. Thereafter, I enrolled for the three year law degree with Government Law College (GLC) and graduated as a Bachelor of Law in 2005.

    GLC is India’s oldest and prestigious  institute of law. Many of my family members including my father and sister have graduated from GLC. At that time, it was considered as the second best law college after NLS Bangalore. GLC had lectures in the morning and hence my classes used to end by 9:30 AM. In my first year, I participated in several moot courts and was part of the moot court committee for organising moots.  The second year onwards, I signed my articles and started working at JSA.

     

    What were the activities, academic or otherwise, that you undertook in your law school days which in your opinion have shaped you and your career?

    As mentioned above, I signed my articles at JSA with Mr. Abeezar Faizullabhoy for the Solicitors exam conducted by Bombay Incorporated Law Society (BILS). My dad also being a Solicitor, suggested that I sign articles and take the exam. As known to everyone, the passing percentage of the Solicitor exam is very low and not being an academically brilliant student, I was not very keen. However, my dad believed that the experience of being trained under one firm for three years and preparing for the exam was a challenge I should undergo irrespective of the results. My articleship at JSA was one of the best times of my legal career. Also, I successfully cleared the Bombay Solicitor exams. My articleship really shaped my career and I knew exactly what I liked or disliked about the profession before starting work after receiving my law degree.

     

    What in your opinion is the level of importance that needs to be attached by a student to the GPA? 

    I believe good grades can aid a student access to Tier I law firms. However, in my view, it is no way to judge anyone’s success in the future. Theoretical and practical knowledge are two very different concepts. Hard work and intelligence with a solution driven approach is a good combination that can lead one to being a successful Lawyer. However, a student who does not have a good GPA can be as successful as the one with an excellent GPA.

     

    What kind of internships did you engage in during your student years?

    I joined JSA in 2003. It was the same time when Mr Berjis Desai split from UUB and joined JSA’s Mumbai office. At that time, JSA was relatively smaller as compared to its size today. I got an opportunity to work with Mr. Somasekhar Sundaresan (Som).

    Som is an exceptional lawyer to work with and an extraordinary mentor. I got to work with him on SEBI and SAT matters. Later on, I also worked with him on corporate matters. He inculcated my habit of attention to detail, research, and insight in the applicable law. This habit helped me to study for my Solicitors exam and also helped my clients in a cautious manner.

     

    What are your areas of specialisation and how did you go about choosing these fields?

    I specialise in securities litigation, corporate law and real estate transactions. My passion for securities litigation started from my JSA days when I regularly appeared before SAT, SEBI and CLB. I did my dual degree LLM from NYU and NUS and specialised in corporate law. At JSA, Drew & Napier and Khaitan, I was part of the corporate team. My current workplace, Mansukhlal, is a mid-sized law firm which, before my joining, specialised in real estate law and dispute resolution. With my work experience in  corporate law, I have been able to build a successful corporate law practice at Mansukhlal. However, given that Mansukhlal in itself was known for real estate and litigation, my first assignment at Mansukhlal was a real estate transaction. I have then onwards done a substantial amount of work in real estate sector and assisted developers in real estate transactions.     

     

    At what stage in one’s law school life must one pick a specialisation?

    Work experience along with the passion for the subject matter is the best way to pick a specialisation. As a student, everyone finds it glamorous to move towards corporate law. However, a junior associate of a Tier 1 or Tier 2 law firm, ends up spending most of his/her time doing due diligence on the transaction. Upon doing due diligence, all the glamour is washed away and interest is lost. Hence, interest in the subject matter along with experience helps one to pick up one’s own specialisation. One should not choose corporate law just for the glamour quotient.

    Also, my advice would be for students to be thorough with their law. As junior lawyers, between finishing all the deliverables and drafting documents, they often ignore the same which at a future stage results in a great loss to the client or his needs.

     

    Do you believe that L.L.Ms are instrumental to one’s career in law?

    After completing my Indian Solicitors, in the same year, I secured admission into a new program started by New York University called NYU@NUS.

    NYU@NUS was a unique program based in Singapore and New York which was taught by full-time faculty from NYU and NUS. In addition to earning two LL.M. degrees from the two of the world’s leading institutions, this program provides a strong background in U.S. and Asian business laws. I was awarded the Dean’s scholarship for pursuing my LLM program. This scholarship later helped me to procure a job in Singapore which otherwise may not have been possible. My view is that an international LLM is relevant for international opportunities as a lawyer.

    I believe LLM from a recognised university does play an instrumental role in getting a job in an international law firm. I was one of the fortunate ones to get a job at Drew & Napier LLC (one of the leading law firms in Singapore) even in the year when Lehman Brother had filed its bankruptcy and sub-prime crisis arose in USA. My LLM degree did help me get this job at Singapore and also later at Khaitan & Co., upon my return to India.

     

    Having studied in New York as well as Singapore, which would you recommend to someone who wishes to follow your footsteps?

    Unfortunately, the NYU@NUS course was discontinued by NYU in 2014. Therefore, I cannot recommend anyone to take this course. However, I would recommend students to pursue LLM from NUS as it is the best law university in Asia and falls in the top ten Law Universities worldwide. Further, getting a job in Singapore is relatively easier as compared to the US or the UK.

     

    What should one expect out of an L.L.M program, if they opt to pursue one?

    LLM from a renowned international university will give a student exposure in international laws, differently styled curriculums and very unique (practical) teaching methodologies. Further, it may assist them in getting jobs abroad, if they are interested.

     

    What does the CV of a student seeking admission in a premier university offering an L.L.M program have to look like? 

    One’s CV has to have good grades, extracurricular activities during law college and some work experience with recognised law firms. Further, recommendation letters also play an important role for the admission. In extracurricular activities, participating in moots and being part of legal activities are looked upon favourably by premier universities. For American universities, a meaningfully written statement of purpose (SOP) plays an important role. They are looking at the candidates’ real life experiences and learnings from such experiences in the SOPs.  

     

    Give us some insights on the qualities that Tier-I firms look for in prospective candidates.

    (Bhushan has previously worked with Khaitan & Co. and JSA, two of the most sought after firms for placements by students.)

    I consider myself to be lucky to have worked with JSA and Khaitan & Co. (KCO). Good grades and extracurricular activities help students get an internship in Tier 1 law firms. The new trend of law firms is to offer a PPO during/ after the internship. Hence, I believe that if a student reflects his/ her sincerity at internships, they would be offered a PPO, which would be the easiest way to make ones way into a Tier-1 law firm.

     

    Give us a brief overview of your current work profile with Mansukhlal Hiralal & Co. What does a regular working day look like for you?

    I joined Mansukhlal in 2012. It is a family firm where my father is the managing partner. Before my joining, Mansukhlal was a team of three partners and five lawyers. In the last five years, we have now grown to five partners and a team of fifteen lawyers.

    I head the corporate law team. Also, from time to time, I look into securities litigation and real estate transactions as certain clients are comfortable working with me on their matters. I spend around ten hours in office for six days a week. Some part of my time is also spent in business development and doing legal updates which are very important for the growth and development of the firm.

     

    What message or general advice would you like to pass on to our readers?  

    Don’t simply focus on getting a job in Tier-I law firms. While studying law, try to enjoy the subject. This attitude towards studying and enjoying the subject will help students to become successful lawyers.