Category: Interviews

Shwetank Tripathi, Associate, Zeus Law, on the primary years of a lawyer
Shwetank Tripathi is an alumnus of the RMLNLU, Lucknow of the 2012 graduating batch. As a fresh law graduate, he started working in Zeus Law Associates and within a year was made part of the team looking after matters before the Company Law Board, New Delhi as well as the Indirect Tax Team. His current work profile includes client-coordination, research on legal issues, drafting, filing, briefing Senior Counsels and strategy-making.

In this interview he tells us about:
- His first few months as a fresh law graduate
- His experience in arguing matters as an advocate when he was fresh out of law school
- How experience at an internship is different from working at a firm as a full-time employee
- The experience and challenges of briefing senior counsels
Please tell us about your law school days at RMLNLU. How did you balance academics and co-curricular activities?

My 5 years at RMLNLU have been a huge learning curve for me, both academically as well as personally. Ours being a relatively new college, with only one batch senior to us, exposed us to myriad opportunities. Academics and co-curricular activities couldbe easily balanced by maintaining regularity and paying equal attention to both the areas.

You have published papers in various prestigious journals. Can you give us tips to ace the art of paper writing?

I believe that article-writing is a simple yet tricky task. It is very important to keep a track on the contemporary legal developments. One needs to pick a contemporary issue of interest, research upon the past legal position, analyse the present development, foresee a roadmap ahead and compile all those aspects together.

How important do you think CPI/CGPA is in terms of one’s CV value? Is it an important factor during the recruitment process?

(Shwetank had a fantastic CPI of 8.89/10)

Well, no one has ever asked me yet as to what my CPI was. But having said that, I also believe that having a good grade is a safe bet. Most firms take into account grades as one of the significant factors during the initial screening. However, CPI alone cannot see you through; it has to be backed by co-curricular activities, and more importantly, the work experience at your internships.

All your internships have been at top-notch firms.How did you go about securinggood internships and what advice would you give to young students reading this interview who want internships in topfirms?

(Shwetank has interned at firms like Dua Associates, Amarchand, Karanjawala and Fox & Mandal)

I have been fortunate enough to be able to secureinternships at known places. I could get most of the internships through friends and contacts. For securing an internship, it is important to prepare a well-written résumé, and maintain a constant follow-up with the concerned HR Department of the firm where the internship is sought.

How is the experience at an internship different from working at a firm as a full-time employee?

Working as an intern and as an employee is a different ball-game altogether, in terms of the expectations and responsibilities. However, my internships have a big role to play in the career choice that I made for myself. I could get a first-hand experience of the challenges lying ahead, which helped me make an informed choice.

How did you secure a job in Zeus Law fresh after your graduation.

I had interned at Zeus for 4 months in my last year of law school. After graduating when I applied for the job, it was merely an informal meet-up and I began working immediately after college was over. The recruitment process involves preliminary screening of your résumé and subsequent personal interview.

How tough were the first 6 months at your workplace?

First six months are tough because you know nothing of the profession. But hard work and attentive attitude makes things simpler in no time.

What are your day-to-day responsibilities? What is the most challenging aspect of your job? How has the experience been so far?

Daily responsibilities include coordination with clients, drafting and attending matters before various courts. Most challenging aspect of a law firm job is the management of time. My experience so far has been enthralling.

What is your work profile like right now?

My current work profile entails overall responsibility of matters, including client-coordination, research on legal issues, drafting, filing, briefing Senior Counsels and attending various courts.

Do you think that the curriculum of law schools can prepare the students for real practice?

The law school curriculum and the actual practice are very different. However, it is very important to have a sound academic base, because once we start working, there is always a dearth of time to spend on the basics. I believe law school curriculum should be made more practice-oriented.

How has your experience been in arguing matters as a fresh-out-of-law-school advocate? Are there any memorable instances you can share with us?

Well, arguing matters before courts has always been the most thrilling part of mylife after law school. Although in a law firm practice you don’t get to argue that often, but I have been fortunate to get many such opportunities. Every instance when you werefully prepared, presented your case to your best and got a favourable order is a memorable instance.

What are the benefits and challenges of briefing Senior Counsels? Do you believe they are able to add value to your clients’ arguments?

Having a Senior Counsel on board is a big help for us as we get to learn various ways in which a case can be strategized to serve the best interest of the client. Senior Counsels definitely add value to the case prepared by us.

What according to you makes for a strong firm culture? What do you believe leads to the high attrition rates in law firms?

A strong firm culture mandatorily requires cohesion between the team members. I believe high attrition rates in law firms are mostly attributable to the challenging nature of the job.

Is work-life balance an issue?

At times, we are compelled to sacrifice on the personal front. But, there are also good leisure times. It is all about what one wants in life, and managing the personal and professional commitments with smart planning.

If you could re-live your 5 years in law school, is there anything you would do differently?

My 5 years at law school have been pretty satisfying. However, if I am given an opportunity to re-live those five years, I would aspire to read more.

Where do you see yourself five years from now?

I do not believe much in foresightedness. I aspire to keep up the motivation and continue to work hard.

Lastly, what would be your message for our readers?

My experience being limited to law firms, I would like to share with such aspirants that it is the easiest of the careers to pursue. Hard work and dedication is obviously required, but once you are sure you want to do this, everything else would gradually fall into place.

This interview was taken by: Jyotsna Arora, USLLS, IP University
September 18, 2015
Arnab Ghosh, Counsel, Beam Suntory, on in-house experience, practicing at Calcutta HC and teaching CLAT aspirants
Arnab Ghosh graduated from RGNUL, Punjab in the year 2013. An all-rounder, he has several accolades to his name in the field of mooting, editing, writing and sports. After working under a Supreme Court judge, Arnab took a detour and started teaching CLAT aspirants, inspiring them along the way and helping them find out whether they would be able to embrace the legal profession in the future.

He has donned the hat of not just a teacher, but also a practicing advocate in the Calcutta High Court, and now, a legal in-house counsel for a company, Beam Suntory, Inc.

In this interview, Arnab shares his experience about:
- Teaching as a senior faculty member of a CLAT coaching center
- Working under a Supreme Court judge and as practising advocateat the Calcutta High Court
- Being the in-house counsel for a company
What was your motivation to study law? Do you have any lawyers in your family?

Law was actually an afterthought for me. I always had an inclination towards the social sciences and made up my mind about studying liberal arts abroad. However, coming from a stereotypical Bengali family, it seemed blasphemous to take up any other subjects apart from PCMB (Physics, Chemistry, Mathematics and Biology) for 12^th standard board exams and I seemed destined for a degree in engineering.

A friend told me about CLAT, which I managed to clear. It was only after landing up in National Law School did I realise that studying law was probably one of the best decisions I had taken. For this, I have to thank my parents who understood my aptitude better than the teenager I was at the time. My father is a lawyer himself. He decided to start practicing rather late in his life but his determination and tenacity to make up for lost time is remarkable.

My first cousin is also a lawyer who is currently working with the WTO. We may not be a family with a “legal legacy” but I am hoping that will change in the coming generations.

How did you prepare for CLAT? Did you take any coaching? How was your experience taking the exam the first time it was ever held?

I never felt that there was an overwhelming need to take separate coaching for CLAT. The ISC curriculum and a general academic approach equipped me to tackle the GK, English and Math sections. I was obsessed with logic and had a thorough grounding in Logical Reasoning, especially in the realm of mathematics, for which I have to thank Sanjit, my math and physics tutor (he’ll hate the fact that I called him that) in classes 11 & 12. This moulded my intellect and approach and I realized that it helped me with CLAT as well. Given a set structure and pattern, I could draw logical conclusions. In order to prepare for the Legal Aptitude section, I solved model question papers and started using the tools of logic and reasoning to answer the questions. Initially, it wasn’t easy but having crafted the method myself, with time I became comfortable with the pattern and structure of the various entrance exams which were specific to the National Law Schools prior to the inception of CLAT.

After the exam, I felt that CLAT was the most refreshing entrance exam that I had given, especially because it was sandwiched between the IIT-JEE, AIEEE and others of the same league. The first thing that struck me about CLAT is that first and foremost, one has to be diligent towards building their general knowledge, there are no short cuts to it, it can only be built over a period through sustained efforts. It’s ludicrous to even imagine that it’s possible to mug up all the yearbooks that are available in the market. The rest of the paper is actually based on aptitude (more often than not) and while people may improve over a period of time, the logical and “legal” bent of mind can only be honed and not created.

You have interned with a few of the top law firms in India. How did you go about securing internships at these firms? How was your experience with them?

Persistence. As a law student, I realized something quickly, my need was greater than the firms. Law firms, by and large, can do without interns. The onus was upon me to secure these internships. Initially, I was heavily dependent on the college and over the years, I made efforts to build a CV which would, at the very least, be looked at by the firms. However, one of my best internships was when I landed up at the firm, requested a partner to meet me and then convinced him to give me an internship. The trick is to be proactive and take out time to not only apply but also keep following up.

How did you get an internship with a sitting Supreme Court Judge? How was the experience?

I have to thank the Internship and Placement Committee of RGNUL for securing this internship. The setup of these internships is such that you get to work from the Judge’s house itself. Every evening, His Lordship took time out to talk to us and discuss certain aspects of litigation and court practice. He candidly shared his experiences for our benefit. As far as being able to list the things I learnt, first and foremost, it gives you a clear perspective on things from the other side of the Bench. Secondly, we had to brief His Lordship which entailed reading hundreds of files and various matters. Thirdly, His Lordship would discuss certain matters with us. As a student, that is the ultimate practical guide to litigation which no other internship can provide. You get to know the types of cases that are likely to get a favourable decision and the ones which don’t and the way judges think. Going forward, if litigation is the career path one wishes to adopt, an internship with a sitting SC Judge is invaluable.

Are there any extra-curricular activities you participated in during your 5 years at RGNUL?

I was an avid mooter and debater. In fact, mooting was a very big part of my college life. It started with the Willem C. Vis Moot, Vienna and ended with our team being runners up at the Juris Corp Corporate Law Moot, NLIU Bhopal. Even after graduating, I’ve been associated with the mooting activities in RGNUL, who had invited me to judge the Stetson Environmental Law Moot last year and the RGNUL Moot this year.

Apart from these activities, I was an editor of the RGNUL’s monthly newspaper, “Carpe Diem”. I was also a part of the Internship and Placement Cell and took keen interest in organizing various events and activities for RGNUL.

Apart from academic co-curricular activities, I was very interested in sporting activities, taking part in all the events held in college, especially cricket and football and was part of RGNUL’s football team.

How was your experience teaching law school aspirants? What were the challenges you faced? What do you think legal aspirants need to be aware about before they become professionals?

(Arnab taught as Senior Faculty at Career Launcher)

In all honesty, I had applied to Career Launcher for a part time position. After the interviews, they were keen on me joining on a whole time basis and the job profile attracted me so I agreed to join them. By far, it was the most enriching and exciting engagement I’ve had. Dealing with students in classes 11 & 12, I took it upon myself to foster a sense of passion in them for studying law. A lot of people join the coaching with the incentive and hope to land top paying jobs and not many are well versed with the other aspects that the study of law has to offer. My focus was to make them understand that law, unlike other disciplines is not mechanical and can only be successfully pursued with a certain degree of fervor and passion, in other words, to get them to study law ‘for the right reasons’ and assuring them that if they do the basics right, money and its corollaries will follow.

One of the most challenging parts was teaching the aspirants the basics of subjects like contracts, constitution and criminal law. I had to dig deep and find analogies from movies like The Dark Knight to get the attention of the students so that they could understand the nuances and basic principles. This, in turn, revived my love for law and also helped me sharpen my own understanding.

However, one cause of mild alarm is that more and more students want to pursue law because it is a lucrative career option. This may be true but not many are ready for the challenges that come in the way. Not many understand the subjects or have an aptitude for it. There is a need to sensitize the students and make them aware of all the realities, especially the difficulties of the legal profession and also to provide counselling to ascertain their aptitude and find whether they are suited for law.

What factors made you switch from teaching to practicing as a lawyer? How was your experience?

(Arnab switched to practicing as a Solicitor in the Calcutta High Court after his stint at Career Launcher)

After working with CL for 6 months, I realized that it wasn’t a long term career option and that I had more or less learned everything that the position had to offer. I enjoyed teaching thoroughly but I wanted to start teaching in colleges and universities. Thanks to a dear friend, RishabRaturi, I was able to work with the Center of International Trade and Economic Laws at Jindal Global Law School on a few projects. It made me realise that although a Masters degree is not essential, it is recommended and I decided that Career Launcher will not provide me the requisite work experience to pursue the same.

Moreover, I had been advised to start working in my hometown in order to pursue a successful career in litigation. Coupled with other personal factors, it seemed like the right move at the time and it was a rewarding experience from which I learned a lot, not only about law but also about the things I can and can’t do in the profession.

How is your present experience of working in a legal department of a corporate firm? What is your role in the firm?

(Arnab is presently working as Legal and Secretarial Consultant at Beam Suntory, Inc. at their Gurgaon office)

I am working in the legal department at Beam Suntory. 70-80% of my job involves drafting contracts and agreements, getting licenses and other requirements for running a liquor business in India and other compliance functions. All our day to day work is done in-house hence that widens the scope of this job immensely. We have to interact with various excise and other departments across the country, each being distinctly different from the other.

The alcohol industry is heavily regulated with strict laws governing business and promotion activities. Almost all marketing and other promotions have to be approved by the legal department before being implemented by the company. One of our recent ventures has been to tie up with VH1 Supersonic through Jim Beam Music CDs (one of our brands), which is one of the biggest music festivals in India and which also happens to be a project I’m personally associated with. From the courts of Calcutta to the beaches of Goa, this indeed has been a fairytale transition.

Hence, my role in Beam Suntory is primarily legal but it has a lot of scope for cross functional projects. Currently, I have been entrusted with taking a leading role in 3 such projects for the company which amalgamates legal and other functions. While working in a company, it is your skill set and talents that play a huge role along with the degree you hold.

What are the challenges you face as an in-house counsel? How are they different from those you faced in court during your stint in Calcutta?

One of the generic challenges, that one faces while working as an in-house counsel is the emphasis on coming up with solutions. It is imperative to understand that the biggest responsibility is enhancement and maintenance of the business. It is not enough to say that the law does or does not allow a certain activity. We have to find ways around in order that the business does not suffer. As an in-house counsel, my clients are the various departments within the company, such as IT, Operations, Sales & Marketing, HR, Finance, etc. It is important to understand these departments in order to render effective service.

The alcohol industry adds its own set of challenges. Every state has its own set of laws and requirements since alcohol is an entry in the state list. Some states have a corporation market wherein we do business directly with government entities, some have a private market where we deal with retailers and some have mixed markets which means that we have to deal with multiple excise laws and policies. Alcohol is also regulated by the FSSAI, Legal Metrology, IPR, Companies Act and many other laws, all of which have to be complied with.

Another challenge, probably the biggest that we face is that we are associated with an American company. Hence, we have to adhere to strict anti-corruption laws. Any lapse on our part can lead to irreparable consequences. No matter how pressing or urgent a matter is, we cannot take any short cuts or obtain favours (monetary or otherwise) from any private or public entities. We take pride in being a company with complete transparency. As an in-house counsel, it is my prime responsibility to ensure the same.

The main difference between working in a Court and working as an in-house counsel is the sheer variety of laws that you have to deal with. In litigation, there is a certain degree of familiarity with the laws and procedures and exposure is limited to the courts. In a company, you have to deal with other companies, entities, business partners, associate companies (in case of group companies of an MNC), various government authorities, banks, law firms, lawyers, consultants, etc. We also have to coordinate and provide support to various departments within the company. There are more deliverables every day while working as an in-house counsel as compared to working in a Court.

What are the skills that companies value the most in their in-house counsel? How does one go about the application process?

Adaptability, business acumen, consistency, quick interpretation of laws, swift and effective problem solving skills, teamwork, and willingness to accept roles and duties beyond your job description, these are the most important qualities that an in-house counsel needs to have. First and foremost, you have to be very good as a lawyer. However, you should also possess the skills and willingness to discharge functions beyond your job description.

A lot of companies advertise vacancies on various internet portals. One has to keep a track and be updated with that. In addition to that, one should try and intern with various companies. It helps if the college placement cell coordinates with major companies for securing placements and internships. The application process is not very different from any other job. Networking also plays a major role in securing positions as an in-house counsel.

Taking up additional courses and getting additional qualifications such as being a Company Secretary is invaluable and I would sincerely advise every student desirous of working as an in-house counsel to get a CS degree at the very least.

Is the work of an in-house counsel easier than that in a firm or in litigation? Is work-life balance an issue?

At the risk of sounding like a boring diplomat, I would have to say that both the jobs have their own challenges and difficulties. The real question one needs to ask is whether they want to work in firms/litigation or in a company. One of the biggest peeves I had about litigation is that you had to stay in the Courts till about 4 in the evening and work only began at about 5. Sometimes, the days would get wasted without any cases coming up for hearing. Conversely, the work as an in-house counsel is more organized and structured. Also, the sheer variety of work ensures that it is not monotonous. Having said that, the thrill of arguing in a Court has its charm and appeal. As I said at the outset, there is nothing easy or difficult about law or anything for that matter, one has to put in a lot of effort into whatever they do.

One of the best things about this job is the work-life balance. I get weekends off and the latest I’ve had to stay back in office was 8 p.m. We put our heads down and work hard from 9-6 but after that we are free birds. I get to take a swim morning and evening, party and cook on the weekends and even foster a dog. I don’t think any other job could have given me this much time and freedom.

Would you have any parting words of encouragement for our readers who would like to follow your footsteps?

Conventional wisdom says that you have to work hard and stick to whatever job or profession you take up. Hard work is absolutely essential. However, working hard for something that does not satisfy you is very counterproductive. At times it is essential to recognize that a certain job or role might not be suitable for you and at that juncture, one has to be bold and courageous enough to quit and move on. I was very lucky that I had the support of my family and friends, especially my parents. They stood by every decision I took.

At times, I was rash and impulsive, but I was always true to myself. It is very important to be honest with yourself and do justice to your skills, interests and passions. Also, in the early stages of your career, the importance of a good senior/boss is incalculable. I have been very lucky to have Vandana Ma’am as my boss at Beam Suntory. Not only is she an excellent lawyer and boss but a great human being as well. It is imperative to not only find the right job but also the right mentor in the early stages of your career.

To summarize, I’d say that it is very important to work hard and work towards a long term goal. However, it is also equally important to find a job which satisfies you, which makes you want to improve and give your 120% rather than constantly harbour thoughts of finding an opportunity to quit and switch jobs. Working with a lawyer, as a Senior Faculty, as a Solicitor, and now as an in-house counsel, I have been able to sample the various flavours the legal profession has to offer and in turn understand my skills and limitations better.

Take as many risks as possible at the initial stages of your career and let your skills and interests, rather than degrees, specializations and marks, decide what is your perfect (or at least near perfect) job.
September 15, 2015
Sayali Phatak, Senior Vice President-Legal, Airtel, on work experience in Telecommunication Laws and the role of an In-House counsel
Sayali Phatak graduated in Political Science in 1988 from Lady Shriram College and thereafter qualified in law in 1991 from Delhi University. She joined JB Dadachanji & Co. soon after graduation and worked there for the next two years.

In 1999, she joined the litigation team at Amarchand Mangaldas & Suresh A. Shroff & Co. (AMSAS as it was then called). Thereafter, she joined as a legal counsel at Airtel. Having joined and quit Accenture in between, Sayali is currently Senior Vice President-Legal at the Corporate office of the Bharti Group.

In this interview, she talks about:
- Her work experience at JB Dadachanji and AMSS,
- Her work experience as a Senior Vice-President-Legal at the Bharti Corporate office,
- The work profile and practice of an in-house lawyer.
How would you introduce yourself in one line to our readers?

I am a Senior Vice President-Legal at the Bharti Corporate office with experience as an in-house counsel of over 17 years. My main areas of practice include corporate litigation, transactions, and corporate advisory matters.

I come from a family of lawyers and Law was a natural progression after my Political Science Honours from Lady Shriram College.

Tell us about your time as a law student and your internship experiences in Delhi University.

DU was fun and friends. There were many subjects over the period of three years. Contract law was of particular interest to me.

We did not have any concept of compulsory internships and so I did not intern.

Right after graduation, you joined JB Dadachanji and Co. Which practice areas did you deal with, in the years that you worked there?

I worked at JBD for about two years from 1992 to 1994. I was in the litigation team, so most of my work included drafting, researching case law and briefing senior advocates.

What was the experience in the firm like? What made you shift to Amarchand & Mangaldas & Suresh A Shroff & Co. in 1999?

JBD was a great place and I am still in touch with my friends from then. They had a lot of good matters and we got very good exposure in drafting and briefing. While I was with JBD, I received an offer to join AMSAS as it was then. I joined AMSAS in 1999 after taking a break as my daughter was born in 1994. I initially worked part time there but later joined full-time.

What was your work experience like in Amarchand?

At AMSAS, I was in the litigation team again. I got an opportunity to work in various fora, ranging from the Supreme Court, High Court, MRTP, DRT the consumer forum and the BIFR. It was a great learning ground and we worked with different clients and got an opportunity to learn drafting, preparing opinions, researching case laws all over again, and I had the opportunity to brief various senior counsel and occasionally appear in courts.

After Amarchand, you joined the legal team of Bharti Airtel. What was the reason behind this shift, especially since you were working at a premier law firm?

Working in a law firm helped me build a great grounding for me, but due to family reasons I shifted to in-house legal work where I felt it was less pressing.

Tell us about a day in your life as a legal counsel. How different was the kind of work at Airtel from Amarchand?

Being an in-house counsel has been very satisfying and challenging. The experience and learnings from JBD and AMSAS, especially in litigation, were very useful. As an in-house counsel one needs to understand the business requirement and accordingly advise the internal teams how to meet their business needs within the parameters of the law. Earlier in the law firms, I was doing mainly litigation but in-house changed to a mixed bag, of contracts, some fairly straightforward, some complicated ones and litigation.

What attracted you to Telecommunication Law?

Telecom is a very happening space. It has seen exponential growth and is meshed with technology to reach out to millions for a variety of issues through voice or data and thus touches all people in some manner or the other. Clearly it is fast paced and an exciting field, and this is exactly what got me interested to Telecommunications.

Why did you shift to Accenture in 2007? How was the work experience different from Airtel?

I got an opportunity to be the Lead Counsel for the India Domestic business for Accenture and so I took that up. It was my first experience with an MNC and it was a good learning to understand how to interact with teams across Asia Pacific, etc. and understand their processes.

You thereafter moved back to Airtel.

It’s always good to improve one’s skill sets. I got an opportunity to work at the Corporate Office of Bharti and worked on a lot of M&A transactions, bond issues and thus took this up.

What is the nature of your work at Airtel presently? Is it true that work in-house is less stressing than at a firm?

We at the corporate office do not have a lot of litigation which is mainly handled by the Airtel Team but I have been part of briefing sessions with some eminent senior counsel in some sensitive matters.

The role of an in-house counsel has changed substantially over the last few years with many persons from law firms making the transition to in-house at various levels. As stated above the role of an in-house counsel is extremely challenging as we live with the business and have to take ownership of all matters, especially in organizations which are fast paced. Also briefing senior counsel is done for litigation matters but there is a lot of transactional and advisory work which happens internally. Further in litigation, a lot of strategizing is done in-house.

Does working as a legal counsel get monotonous? How is it possible for one to keep experiencing new learning curves while working as a legal counsel?

The role of an in-house counsel is far from monotonous for the reasons stated above. As regards experiencing new learning curves, as stated above, with a business which is fast paced and evolving one has no choice but to be ahead of the times and work with business to ensure that the business goes ahead.

What would you advise law students who want to join in-house roles?

My personal view is that young students must first do a few years of litigation and garner work experience with law firms. These would be extremely useful and would serve as an edge over others if one wishes to move in-house.

Work as an in-house counsel requires collaborative and team effort. Each counsel is measured on how they are able to help the business achieve their objectives and thus all have to work with all teams in order to close the issue.

Diligence, commercial insight, updated legal knowledge, attention to detail and good healthy relationships with internal customers is required if one wants to do well.

What is your current work profile like? How do you balance work and personal life?

I am currently leading a team of four colleagues and we provide full support to the Corporate office for all legal issues. Work life balance is something one has to achieve for oneself and there are spikes when there may be no weekends off, some with one day and some with both. If one finds one’s work exciting then all can be managed.

What are your plans for the future?

To continue what I am doing and learn new skill sets.

What is the one advice you would like to give young law students?

Law is an extremely versatile area and due to its far reach touching all aspects of life, it’s a great subject to study whether one wants to practice or teach or pursue other careers in environment, Human rights etc.
September 10, 2015
Kanan Dhru, Founder, RFGI, LawToons, LawForMe, on being a Social Entrepreneur and work experience in Policy Research
Kanan Dhru graduated in B.Com from Gujarat University in 2003, thereafter she pursued Bachelor of Laws from the prestigious London School of Economics and graduated by 2006.

With her qualification in law, she started her versatile work life full of enviable achievements like being a member of a Prime Minister’s advisory body, consultant for Members of Parliament, and, interestingly, practising advocate at the Gujarat High Court.

Finally, the social entrepreneur in her motivated her to found the Research Foundation for Governance in India (RFGI) in 2009. RFGI is a think-tank that is working on legal and political reforms in India. Kanan is dealing with issues like backlog of cases, education for lawyers as well as engaging youth in governance through her work in RFGI.

Recently, she has founded LawForMe (an app that guides people to the answers to their legal queries with the help of flowcharts) and Lawtoons (a cartoon series on the basic laws of India). LawForMe has won the Innovating Justice award of the Hague Institute for the Internationalisation of Laws, 2014.

A successful woman social entrepreneur with a string of achievements at a very young age, Kanan talks about her thoughts, ideas, experiences and advice to young social entrepreneurs and law students.

Please introduce yourself to the readers telling us a little bit about your childhood and your background.

I come from a traditional Gujarati family. Our family is one of the old families of Ahmedabad. My grandmother’s grandfather has been instrumental in starting the Gujarat Law Society. The importance of arts and culture has been instilled in me since my childhood. My parents made a conscious decision to put me in C N Vidyalaya, a Gujarati-medium Gandhian school which stressed on simplicity, self-reliance and authenticity as the way of life. Children are taught to spin the wheel (and make Khadi cloth by themselves), agriculture, carpentry. In fact, our uniform was also made of Khadi!

A certain percentage of students came from nearby villages and their parents were farmers, daily labourers and the like. At the same time, there were students who came from well-to-do families and I grew up seeing inequalities all around me.

You studied Law after B.Com from Gujarat University. Was studying law an event of chance or an effect of a deliberate plan? What inclined you to choose law?

I always wanted to be a lawyer. Since I grew up questioning our unequal society, I wondered where did the answers lie and where does the buck stop? I saw that all our leaders were lawyers and that by getting the education in justice delivery, I can help create a fairer society.

You have completed your Bachelor of Laws from the prestigious London School of Economics. How different is the style of teaching at LSE? Do they focus more on the practical aspects of law as compared to the NLUs?

My exposure to the education system at NLUs has come from my younger sister, who studied at one of them. At LSE, the teaching methodology is highly analytical. Emphasis is put on the nature and need of law in the society and the ingredients of rule of law. The black letter law becomes the focus only after graduation – just before the graduate decides to take up the path of becoming a solicitor or a barrister.

Why did you choose a foreign university to pursue Law instead of an Indian law school?

While I was very clear about pursuing law, my parents wanted me to study law from a good university. I did apply for NLUs after my 12^th standard, but at that time, the application system was different. Every university had a different application system. I only applied to NLSIU and NALSAR and frankly, did not make it to either.

Tell us about your time at LSE. How was the academic pressure? Tell us about campus life at LSE. How difficult was it for you to adjust to a U.K. based education system?

My time at LSE was fabulous – my horizons were expanded manifolds. Of course, the delivery of lectures and communication during the classes was very different and I had to adjust to the change in the teaching methodology.

Along with studies, I slowly started involving myself in the extra-curricular activities on campus. I became the editor of the law society’s legal journal, started SPICE (Society for the Promotion of Indian Culture and Ethos) and also founded India Week – one of the prominent celebrations on the LSE campus – where we hosted Professor Amartya Sen and involved the Indian Embassy in the founding year. I was awarded the ‘Honorary Studentship’ by the LSE Student Union – which is awarded to 20 students in the graduating batch every year.

What kind of internships did you do while you were an LSE student? Are there any remarkable experiences during your internships that shaped your career choices later?

In the first year, I interned at Nishith Desai Associates in India and in the second year, I interned with the World Health Organisation (WHO) in Geneva.

Honestly, the WHO experience was quite significant since I was able to meet and interact with a very different set of people, mainly health professionals, and I was able to have very in-depth conversations with them. There were many people from the USA, whom I found really open and friendly.

At WHO, I was able to see how an international organisation functions and how it is able to create dialogue across stakeholders. I also saw how different countries could get themselves represented at the international platforms. This fascinated me and made me start thinking about policy work in India.

How did you secure your appointment at the NKC? What was the nature of your work at the NKC?

(After graduating from LSE, Kanan came back to India and worked at the National Knowledge Commission for a year. The NKC is one of the Prime Minister’s Advisory body.)

After coming back to India, I was still looking at different options. My father encouraged me to apply for the National Knowledge Commission. However, I wondered how could I secure a place at such a prestigious institution? I wrote an email directly to Sam Pitroda (then head of the NKC) with my CV and to my surprise, he replied positively the very next day!

Working at the NKC was an extremely enriching experience. I was able to travel across the country and work with a team of highly accomplished individuals driven towards the development of the nation. I worked on issues such as library development, entrepreneurship and traditional knowledge. It was at the NKC that I realised that in order to create a sustainable impact through any policy, law played a crucial role. I decided to start practicing law then.

You left NKC and started your independent practice as an Advocate at the Gujarat High Court. Do you think that was the perfect time for you to go independent?

Practicing law fascinated me. I believed that by gaining exposure to litigation, I would be able to see how law was actually implemented in the society. This became clearer after my NKC stint.

I did not strategise the timing. It just felt like the right thing to do!

How did you overcome your initial jitters in a courtroom full of experienced lawyers and judges? Tell us about the highs and the lows.

The atmosphere in the court is indeed quite overwhelming and intimidating for any youngster. However, people around me constantly kept on asking me why I joined litigation after a law degree from LSE! There were also those who asked me whether I was actually serious about litigation or whether I was there to find a suitable partner for marriage.

As a junior, I was lifting files and running around the courtrooms, keeping time for my senior lawyers lest their case comes up. I was quite disappointed at the fact tht this was how I had to start gaining the exposure.

I was even more disappointed to see that ‘justice’ was so slow to attain – the entire machinery to deliver justice seemed quite inefficient and I saw how so many people had to wait for years to obtain justice. It was a question of their lives and they were going from pillar to post, and still they did not know what their rights were!

There were so many different kinds of lawyers! I met lawyers who were part-time tailors or rickshaw-drivers and then there were those who owned a Mercedes or a BMW and had really fancy offices. Were their clients equally represented?

I kept wondering why things were not moving faster. Did we really need all these difficult jargons and procedures for fairness to prevail?

My experience in the court made me realise that something drastic had to be done to change the way the legal machinery operated and that’s how RFGI was born.

Please tell us about your experience with your first few sessions in court. Has it become more difficult for a fresher to achieve success nowadays?

How and when you get a chance to appear in the court depends on a lot of things. It depends on who is your senior lawyer – is he/she your relative? – if that’s the case or if you have good relations with your senior, then your chances to appear would be higher. Else, you might have to push the files for quite a while before you are actually entrusted with a matter. Usually the judges are quite encouraging to youngsters.

The first case I got to argue was a case of the year 1982 where a bus conductor had sued the state bus company, because of whose negligence he had to get his leg amputated. The amount claimed was around Rs. 14,000 plus interest. I put forward my argument and got the judgment in the favour of the bus conductor, but when I tried to inform him about the outcome, I realised that he had passed away a few years ago.

All these factors led me to start taking my work at RFGI seriously.

Tell us about your “Management Matters Project’’. What was your role and responsibilities in this Project?

(Kanan undertook this Project at London School of Economics, McKinsey & Co. [New Delhi] and also at Stanford University)

When I was at LSE, I got through a project between LSE and McKinsey & Co. to assess the management practices of manufacturing companies across different countries. It was a fascinating project and I learnt a lot about management and what factors contributed to better management practices across geographies. I also saw how the national regulatory and physical infrastructure had an important part to play.

When McKinsey wanted to roll out this project in India, I got involved and spent time in their Gurgaon office to help set up the initial team. Similarly, even at Stanford, I was invited to help train the first batch of analysts.

Tell us about the story behind RFGI. What challenges did you face to establish an institution like RFGI? What does RFGI do and what is your job profile in the think-tank?

(Kanan went on to establish and head a think-tank called “Research Foundation for Governance In India’’. RFGI today consists of 3000 members, working on legal and political reforms in India.)

As I mentioned before, it was my experience at the High Court that led me to create a platform to raise a voice about needing a change within the legal systems, which took form in the shape of RFGI.

However, initially the idea was to bring together youngsters who wanted to create a change within the governance systems in India and the mandate was quite open ended. Youngsters from different backgrounds started getting involved on a variety of issues. We started organising public debates and conducting research studies on issues such as entry barriers to litigation (which was to understand what are the barriers junior lawyers face to establish themselves in litigation), understanding the status and need for inner party democracy in political parties, analysing the status of legal education among others. We started collaborating on projects with Accountability Initiative (at Centre for Policy Research), with some of the professors at IIM-A, Government agencies and also started to work with a large number of young political party representatives across party lines. Along with this, we started hosting interns from different parts of the world.

RFGI became a hub of different thought processes and discussions on governance in the city of Ahmedabad and we started gaining accolades from various corners. We started going to different schools and interacting with children on laws and rights.

Our work profile was to work on research, awareness and consultancy on legal and political reforms related areas in India and to involve youngsters in the process of governance. The entire organisation was working in the spirit of volunteerism.

Besides working on RFGI, you have contributed your knowledge set as a consultant for members of Parliament of India. Please tell us about your time as their consultant.

Our work at RFGI and our profile as lawyers wanting a change in the society got us to work with a Member of Parliament on drafting of a legislation. In fact, after my work at the NKC, I was involved with the Education Department of Gujarat in drafting of several bills and ordinances. Our work with the Member of Parliament was to draft a couple of private members bills. It was fascinating work and the impact that we could create with drafting of laws was far reaching.

What prompted you to take an offer of teaching in spite of working full time for RFGI? What was your teaching methodology there?

(Kanan taught Ethics in Business and Business Law as a Visiting Faculty to final year Business students in Ahmedabad University.)

When I was approached specifically to teach ‘Ethics’, I was intrigued. The subject sounded fascinating and I thought it might be a great chance to learn something. Teaching Ethics really changed me. As a teacher, I have always believed in encouraging class participation instead of preaching. The boundaries of ‘right’ and ‘wrong’ that Ethics forces us to delve upon makes you start questioning many of your pre-conceived notions. I challenged the thought premises of my students and tried making them better in tune with themselves.

In between, you have also pursued Masters in Public Administration from IGNOU. What was the reason behind pursuing this course? Tell us about the course structure and the utility of this course.

Since I was working in the field of governance, I wanted to have knowledge of the theoretical aspects of policy making and administration. Masters in Public Administration felt like the most relevant degree for me.

Honestly, I was dabbling between an MBA (to understand how to grow a social enterprise) and an MPA. I also got the Fulbright Fellowship to pursue an MBA in USA but could not take up that offer due to unfavourable circumstances.

Our readers would be keen to know about your recently started websites “LawForMe’’ and ‘’LAWTOONS’’. What led to the foundation of these two websites? What advantage can law students get from these two websites?

I can’t express it in fewer words. I would request the readers to read: https://www.facebook.com/notes/579275265508546/ and here’s a brief about Lawtoons: http://www.hindustantimes.com/art/lawtoons-a-comic-series-to-teach-children-their-rights/article1-1281611.aspx

How does it feel to be well recognised at such an early stage in career? And how has your journey as a Social Entrepreneur and Legal Innovator been so far?

(Apart from being an Acumen India Fellow, Kanan has won the Innovating Justice Award, (2014) and was also selected as an ‘Indian of Tomorrow’ by India Today (2012))

Acumen’s India Fellows Program is addressing the country’s most pressing social issues by supporting a new generation of Indian leaders willing to challenge broken systems and develop new, inclusive solutions to create impact. Each year, the India Fellows Program brings together up to 20 emerging leaders from different regions, sectors, and socio-economic backgrounds in India. I am honoured to be selected as one of the 20 fellows this year.

My journey as a social entrepreneur and legal innovator has been quite fascinating and often introspective. As they say, when you are on a journey to create a better society, it may also be a pathway towards your internal journey and vice versa.

Starting RFGI and winning the Innovating Justice Prize are some of the milestones in your career. Tell us about your success mantra.

Perhaps what has worked for me is that I focus on what work is to be done and not what I will get out of it. ‘Focusing on work as an end in itself’ is my mantra.

Please tell us about your two books and how do you get time to pen for the daily newspapers and blogs?

(Kanan is a regular blogger and columnist for The Huffington Post, Femina Gujarat, Daily News & Analysis and were a former columnist with Times of India (Gujarat). Kanan has also authored two books ‘Kanan Chan in Japan – Diary of an exchange student’ (2003) and authored a book of poems ‘Amara Manma’.)

Since childhood, I have always loved reading and writing. Writing is a very introspective process and it makes me really happy when I write. It is easy to find time for something that you love! Plus, Ahmedabad being a less happening city, it leaves one with a lot of time to pursue their hobbies and interests!

How do you think knowing law benefits an entrepreneur? What are the prime hurdles that a non-lawyer entrepreneur is likely to come across?

Being an entrepreneur is all about the will and the aptitude. Being a lawyer or a non-lawyer has little role to play. Of course, a lawyer is more attuned to understanding the regulatory process or has in-built analytical thinking. After that, it is the business acumen and the communication skills that create wonders. Introspection is also an important trait for any self-starter.

What are your thoughts about raising capital for RFGI? Have you approached any Foundations?

We believe that our work has potential to make significant impact. While money isn’t really a great motivator, we believe that through social entrepreneurial ideas such as Lawtoons and LawForMe, we will be able to sustain our work.

When you hire people under you, what kind of skills and profile do you look for? How can law students or marketing students go about developing these skills?

At RFGI, we usually invite anyone who has his/her heart in the right place. It is a platform to do good work and everyone is welcome! However, over time we have realised that most interns join because they want a certificate, which is such a shame. Now we have become far stricter in looking for the right fit.

For legal interns, we look for interns who know the law and who respect deadlines. What is fundamentally important is that the person should have a belief about bringing a change in the legal system and creating innovations in law – to have his/her heart in the right place. Rest all can be taken care of.

What does it take to be a Social Entrepreneur and Legal Innovator? What are the three great skills of an entrepreneur according to you? What differentiates the best from the rest?

Honestly, I have always followed my heart and did what I thought was the right thing to do. It has not always been easy – but it has been worth it. Three great skills of an entrepreneur according to me are:
- Knowing one’s self well (knowing what you stand for, your likes and dislikes and the non-negotiables as well as your limitations)
- Knowing that you can be wrong too (humility)
- Knowing that your dreams will come true
How has the journey been for you as a woman entrepreneur?

Somebody once told me that the value of RFGI is also because it represents the voice of a young female on governance and legal system. I consider this an honour. I think my journey has been exciting and full of interesting ups and downs. Being a woman entrepreneur has been both positive and negative.

At times, I wonder what my journey would have been if I were a guy? Perhaps I would have been taken more seriously in our society, perhaps I would not have so many social pressures to fit into a specific box, perhaps I would have been a lot more aggressive in my work, perhaps my life would have been easier.

But then, I feel that it is because I am a woman, I need to do what I do – even with more enthusiasm and self-belief.

Your main object is to work towards legal reforms in India through Research Foundation for Governance in India, Lawtoons and LawForMe. Where do you want to see yourself five years down the line?

5 years down the line, I see Lawtoons and LawForMe as flourishing entities, making laws and legal processes simple and easily understood. RFGI would of course be the umbrella organisation facilitating dialogue and discussion on access to justice.

I also aim to see many more legal start-ups in India and a thriving ecosystem providing access to justice in India.

I don’t know much about myself but about the legal system in India, I have so many dreams! I want to see a legal culture in India where justice is a primary value, respected and enforced fairly and efficiently. I want to see a culture of legal aid actively provided to those in need and where efforts are being made to make people aware about laws and rights. I visualise the legal climate where with the help of technology, access to justice has become easy, process faster and transparency is taken for granted. I don’t know if 5 years is too short a time for this dream to materialise but my efforts will continue in this direction for sure.

Is there scope for legal internships in RFGI? If so, what is the process of application?

We are highly selective about the interns we take. Please email info@rfgindia.org for internship opportunities.

Tell us a bit about mountaineering. Did you take any hard-core training before climbing? Why have you chosen this hobby which needs maximum tenacity and mental strength?

(Kanan has scaled Mount Kilimanjaro in 2012 and has travelled over 30 different countries.)

While I am very passionate about my work, I am also thoroughly interested in traveling, sports (yes, I love playing tennis!) reading, knowing about different cultures and outdoor adventures. Being with nature is so important! Work is important but it is equally important, if not more, to grow as a person. The extra-curricular activities do make you a stronger and more composed person. Over time, I have also grown very curious about understanding human nature and I keep reading about it every now and then.

I have travelled over 30 countries and have gathered so many interesting experiences. In fact, on my Japan trip alone, I have written a book called ‘Kanan Chan in Japan’! Perhaps Super Lawyer should do another interview with me to capture those insights! J

What is your message for law students who aspire to be Social Entrepreneurs one day?

“Follow your heart and take risks. You only live once.”
September 6, 2015
Himanshu Sharma, MBA Candidate, IIM Ahmedabad, on all about studying MBA from IIMA
Himanshu Sharma is a recent graduate from Gujarat National Law University, GNLU (2015). In his final year, he cracked Common Admission Test (CAT) to secure his admission in IIM-Ahmedabad. During his time in Law school, he interned at FICCI in their Intellectual Property Facilitation Centre, New Delhi and was a judicial clerk working under Justice Kurian Joseph.

In this interview he talks about:
- His Law school experience;
- His work at FICCI and with Justice Kurian Joseph; and
- All about cracking CAT and getting through IIM Ahmedabad
- Faculty, facilities and the atmosphere at IIM-A.
Himanshu, tell us a bit about yourself.

I am currently a student of PGP-1 (MBA in colloquial terms) at Indian Institute of Management, Ahmedabad. I completed my graduation from Gujarat National Law University, Gandhinagar in 2015 and joined IIM-A after a barely month long break. I am a native of Dharamshala (H.P.) and love spending my time reading and gaming.

Tell us a bit about your childhood and pre-college life. Did you have lawyers in your family?

I grew up and attended school in the hill towns of Shimla and Dharamshala. My pre-college life was very calm and laid-back with not much academic pressure as such. I used to spend much time playing video games. Interestingly, I am the first lawyer in my family. My extended family comprises solely of doctors and teachers.

Why did you decide to study Law? What inspired you to do so?

Law as a career was not my first choice. I was a science (non-medical) student in Class XII and was keen on pursuing engineering post school. However, during my last year in school, I realized that Law as a career also interested me. So I prepared for CLAT as well. The CLAT rank turned out to be really good and my parents convinced me that for a person like me, Law would be a much better option than engineering as they believed my skills were more suited towards it. Looking back, I somehow feel that taking up Law was one of the best decisions of my life, as it exposed me to a much broader learning experience than what would have been possible pursuing engineering.

How was your experience at GNLU, Gandhinagar? How did you go about your academics as well as extra-curricular activities? Were you into mooting?

The five years at GNLU have been nothing short of fantastic. I met amazing people here, learnt from some of the best teachers and did almost everything possible under the sun that I felt like doing. Academics at GNLU was not much of a burden as the course was evenly spread out over the different semesters. Any difficulties that I faced were resolved with the help of teachers or friends and seniors. GNLU students are also lucky to have a very active extra-curricular life. Almost every fortnight there used to be some activity or the other, ranging from simple music nights to week long sports leagues. I took part in as many as I felt comfortable with. I was not much into mooting as getting into mooting is a serious affair and time and energy needs to be dedicated. I represented the University in only two national moots, once in my first year and the next time in my third year.

How was your experience serving various student committees at GNLU?

The only committee I served in GNLU was the sports committee, which was a very good experience as it led to bonding with many people I would not have known otherwise. Working for the sports community at GNLU was also a pleasure. Also, from the experience of seeing my friends work with various committees, I cannot stress enough the hard work put in by such committees for the benefit of students. Whether it is the SAC or the MCC or the LSC, they keep on working throughout the year for the betterment of the student community at GNLU.

Give some insights of your internship experience at FICCI in their Intellectual Property Facilitation Centre, New Delhi.

I interned at the IP Facilitation centre of FICCI, New Delhi as IPR has always been my favourite area of Law since a long time. The work there mostly comprised of research on various ongoing events in the IP sector. A substantial work assigned to me was the preparation of a course booklet on IPR for high school students, to introduce them to the basics of IP Law and their importance. The work turned out to be quite challenging as the booklet had to be designed keeping in mind the limited exposure to Law for the students. Overall, the internship was a fun and learning experience. The interns also got the opportunity to meet luminaries in the field of IP Law at times.

You did a Judicial Clerkship at Himachal Pradesh High Court under Hon’ble Chief Justice Kurian Joseph. What is the process of application? What do you think contributed to your selection?

Interning under Hon’ble Justice Kurian Joseph was a wonderful experience. One of my batchmates and I both applied through the Registrar of the High Court and both got selected for the internship. However, the final decision was taken by the Hon’ble Chief Justice himself after having a short conversation with both of us. It would be really difficult to quantify the criteria of selection but I think all that mattered were that we were confident and open to learning.

What kind of assignments did you get and what was your nature of work as an intern?

The assignments were almost always about some small technicality that had arisen in some matter being adjudicated by the Justice Joseph. Rather than the work though, it was the few small discussions we had with Justice Joseph in his free time that provided us with a much better understanding of various aspects of Constitutional and Administrative Law. The whole experience also contributed much towards my learning of our judicial system.

You are also interested in sports and were a member of the University Sports Committee and University Basketball Team. Tell us a bit about it.

Being involved in every co-curricular or extra-curricular activity is not of much use if the same is done just for the sake of it and is not enjoyed. I think students would be at no loss if they focus on say one or two such activities only, if they enjoy what they are doing. From the perspective of enhancing the profile though, especially from the perspective of attending a B-school later, taking part in as many co-curricular or extra-curricular activities as you can is beneficial in the long run, as thy help distinguish you from other candidates during admissions.

What prompted you to choose MBA after graduation and why not an LL.M or a Law firm job?

I had not even thought much about post-graduation till my 3^rd year. But as the 3^rd year was almost ending, I realized that I really did not have much enthusiasm in me towards a corporate Law firm job. I found corporate Law to be very procedural and mundane. Pursuing IP Law was another option for me, but I felt that it would restrict me to a very niche field. So I gradually drifted towards going for post-graduation. I did not rule out an LL.M. right away, but somehow chose to go for an MBA over it as it seemed to offer better benefits in the form of diverse learning as well as a different career path. A very close friend also played an instrumental role in motivating me for pursuing an MBA.

When did you exactly start preparing for the CAT? When should a person ideally start preparation for the CAT and other management exams?

I started preparing for CAT and other entrance exams when I started my 4^th year at GNLU. So essentially, I prepared for almost one and a half year. However, I would not say that this is the ideal time limit for anyone who wants to prepare for the same. I have seen people cracking CAT after preparing for just four to six months, while some have taken close to 3-4 years to get into a B-school of their choice. It all depends on the kind of effort a person is willing to put in. I took more time because I was not very comfortable with the Quantitative section. Also during the first year of preparation, I prepared at a leisurely pace, putting in approximately 8-10 hours of work in a week.

Did you get yourself enrolled in a coaching institute? How valuable do you think coaching institutions can be for MBA?

I enrolled myself in a coaching institute as soon as I started preparation for CAT. For me, it was very valuable as they provided a comprehensive set of study material and scheduled mock exams at regular intervals. Having classes regularly also helped me pace my preparation as per a fixed schedule and not lag behind in any particular topic. The input of the coaching institution was even more valuable while preparing for the interviews as they guided me very well on how to handle and be confident during all sorts of interview scenarios.

Which coaching institute did you go to? Was it possible for you to attend every class?

I studied at a coaching institute named ‘Endeavor Careers’, with the center located approximately 4 km from the University. The classes were scheduled on Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays from 7-9 pm. There was a study room that was open 24 hours, 365 days a year. There was also a well-stocked library for the CAT aspirants to hone their English skills. Extra classes were also scheduled sometimes on weekends. Additionally, once the mock tests started, students were allotted slots for the same based on their preferences so as to avoid any clash with college schedules. I would say I roughly attended 90% of the classes, missing out mostly when I went for my internships or had some prior personal engagement. Backup classes were provided by the institute whenever students missed a class for a genuine application. Also, at the end of my 4^th year, I opted not to go for internships and stayed in the University campus during May and June so that I could attend classes at the institute.

How many hours did you put in for your preparations every day? Is it important to have a fixed schedule or weekly targets?

As said earlier, it all depends on the person. For the first year, I would study a maximum of 2-3 hours a day. However, in the last six months, I studied anywhere from 4-8 hours daily, depending on my other workload. I had my fixed schedule only in the form of classes that I attended at my coaching institute. Other than that, I mostly stuck to determining weekly or fortnightly targets and then reaching them at my pace.

How did the other management entrance tests like MAT & XAT turn out to be?

I took exams for other institutes such as XAT, IIFT, NMAT, etc. I cleared some of them while in some I did pretty badly. It all boils down to not losing your nerve and remaining calm when you have a set time limit to attempt a lot of questions. CAT however, gave me the chance to get into the best B-school of the country.

CAT is one of the toughest management exams. How did you prepare and accustom yourself with these tough subjects?

CAT can be said to be one of the toughest management exams, but all it requires is knowledge of English, High School level Mathematics, and Logical Reasoning. All these can be prepared easily over time. CAT anyways does not test the conceptual knowledge of candidates solely; rather it places more emphasis on the application of this knowledge. Then it becomes important for the candidate to have a calm and analytical approach towards questions, thinking about the best ways to attempt it, and not just approaching it in a conventional way.

Which books/materials did you rely on while preparing?

I only referred to the study material provided to me by my coaching institution for preparation, as it was more than sufficient to cover all topics.

Lakhs of people attempt the CAT exam and only a thousand get shortlisted for the interview and secure admission to a top B – School. Which are the prime skills and expertise required to crack the CAT?

What my experience with CAT tells me is that in the end, what matters is your approach towards the exam, rather than your preparation for it. If you approach it with a calm and rational mind, you will crack it. Since wrong answers carry a negative score, it is very important to be confident of your answers. Questions can be tricky, generally the most obvious (but wrong) answer would be the first option. So you need to analyse a problem from all angles and be sure that you have not missed out on any important information. Also, I have seen many brilliant candidates faring badly in the exam because their nerves got the better side of them. Being calm and confident is thus the key to cracking CAT.

What strategy did you take to crack the interview?

I got approximately 22 days to prepare for the interview after the shortlist for IIM Ahmedabad came out. It was my first interview for any of the B-schools I had applied to and so I was quite nervous in the initial days. Over the days, however, I put in a lot of effort towards preparation and grew more confident. I read up a lot about the current events happening in the world, as well as our country. I had been reading newspapers regularly for the past couple of months so it was not that difficult. I also brushed up many of the subjects I had studied in Law school with the help of my friends and teachers. My coaching institute mentors also conducted many mock interviews with me, which helped a lot in getting a feeling of the real day.

What kind of questions have you been asked in the interview? Give some tips to nail an interview in order to secure admission to a top B–School.

For IIM Ahmedabad, the interview lasted around 30-35 minutes. The initial 20 minutes were spent on academic questions. In the very beginning, the interviewers asked me my favourite subjects in college (IPR and Constitutional Law were my answers). The discussion moved from the benefits of IP protection, to the Novartis case and finally to the newly formed NITI Aayog. The latter part of the interview was mostly about current affairs and how comfortable I was with solving a question on probability. There were also some general questions about my family, my taste in literature and movies, and a very unexpected technical question on basketball.

For other institutes, such as XLRI or other IIM(s), the interviews were again broadly based on academics, current affairs and situational questions. What I feel is that for a B-school interview, firstly you have a decent hold of your academic subjects and world affairs, and secondly, you should be able to convince the interviewers that you are open to learning and will contribute to the institution.

Which subject interests you the most? Share with our readers.

IIM Ahmedabad does not have any diversification between different streams. In the first year, all courses are compulsory, with optional courses being offered in the second year. As of now, I find myself interested in Consulting and Marketing.

How is the academic pressure at IIM-A? What is a normal workday like?

The academic pressure at IIM-A (or any other B-school) is much more intense than at a Law school. Classes here are from 8:45 am to 1:10 pm, five days a week. Most subjects use a case based approach to teaching, so the required cases for each class have to be studied and understood the previous day. Additionally, all the quizzes (tests as they are called here) are surprise quizzes, with a quiz being held one hour post its announcement in the afternoon. There is also work involved if a student is the member of any club or committee. A normal workday essentially involves reaching the class in time, waiting for a quiz announcement at 1:45 pm if any. Then it’s either giving the quiz at 2:45 pm or catching a few hours of sleep if there is no quiz. Evenings can be spent studying, playing or engaged in any other activity. Post dinner it is usually class preparation for the next day. A student cannot miss classes other than for health reasons or on account of some urgent work that requires so.

Tell us a bit about the faculty and the facilities of IIM-A.

The faculties with whom I have had interactions till now are experts in their respective fields of study, holding post-doctoral degrees. Classes here are interactive, with the faculty putting much emphasis on student participation. In terms of facilities, we have a 24 hour library, sports facilities for all major sports, gymnasia, 5-6 cafes (with room delivery available) in addition to the mess, single occupancy rooms and LAN connectivity in rooms (in addition to WiFi).

Tell us a bit about the cultural environment at IIM-A. Are most of them young students or senior professionals?

My batch here consists of a heterogeneous mixture of students from all sorts of backgrounds. There are freshers like me, while there are also students with 4-5 years of work experience. In addition to engineers, we have chartered accountants, commerce/ economics graduates and doctors in the batch. There is a healthy representation from almost all the states of the country. This results in a very diverse cultural and professional environment, which in turn greatly amplifies the learning experience of the students.

What all activities can one partake of at IIM-A?

There is no dearth of activities to take part at IIM-A. It is purely left to the choice of the students. There are clubs focusing on all sorts of activities, ranging from the likes of technology and finance to the likes of music/ movies and stargazing. There are also a lot of competitions in diverse fields of management to take part in. Additionally, students can also volunteer in social initiatives such as Prayaas and SMILE, both of which cater to providing education for underprivileged children.

Where do you want to see yourself five years from now?

Well, to be unabashedly optimistic, I would like to see myself as a partner of a consulting firm or in the senior management of an FMCG company after five years. However, to be realistic, my life at IIM Ahmedabad has just started and I would like to learn more about the opportunities available, before I decide on a career path.

Would you like to be an entrepreneur after finishing MBA?

Law and Management is one of the most potent combinations when it comes to economic activities as both are inextricably linked in the larger scheme of running businesses.

As of now, I have not considered pursuing any entrepreneurial venture. However, IIM Ahmedabad has its very own Centre for Innovation, Incubation and Entrepreneurship which helps students pursue and kickstart their ventures. So in case I do get bitten by the entrepreneurial bug, I would be more than happy to pursue my own venture.

What is your message for Law students who want to choose MBA as a career after pursuing Law?

In India, MBA after pursuing Law is not very common, and I had had my shares of frowns and weird looks when initially I told people of my decision. Their usual reaction used to be that this kid has gone bonkers, an MBA is not for lawyers. However, I had the full support of my family and friends, who kept me motivated throughout my preparation period.

I believe that an MBA is a very valuable degree especially for a lawyer, as each and every business is inextricably linked with Law in the larger scheme of things. Leading a business can thus be relatively easier for a person who understands the intricacies of the Law within which the business has to operate. Also, there are hardly any non-engineers and non-commerce students in Indian B-schools. Thus students with a background like Law or medicine are highly valued due to the diverse skill set they bring to the institution. If a person is keen on going to a B-school, he/she should just be sure about it and prepare with confidence. The Law degree will only help in later stages, and never be a hampering factor.
September 2, 2015
Smriti Agrawal, Ex-Associate Clifford Chance and Ex-Consultant Ministry of Finance on LL.M from LSE and Harvard
Smriti Agrawal graduated from New Law College, Bharti Vidyapeeth University, Pune in 2010. Later she pursued her Masters in Banking and Financial Regulation from London School of Economics. During her time at LSE she served as a Research Assistant. After graduating from LSE, she had the opportunity to work as an Associate at Clifford Chance in their Project Finance and Private Equity Team.

After almost two years at Clifford Chance, she came back to India and joined as a Consultant Regulator at Ministry of Finance, where she has been working on policy development of Private Equity. Smriti has recently, i.e. last month decided to pursue further studies. Smriti is selected for an LL.M from Harvard Law School, wherein she would have the opportunity to study at the three of the best institutions of the world: Harvard Business School, Harvard Economics Department and Harvard Kennedy School.

She was recently awarded the Golden Alumni Award, 2015 at her graduating university, BVU, by Shri Pranab Mukherjee.

In this interview she talks about:
- Her experience at London School of Economics;
- Her work profile and experience at Clifford Chance and Ministry of Finance; and
- Her reasons to pursue higher studies from Harvard Law School
How would you like to introduce yourself to our readers who are mostly law aspirants, law students and young lawyers.

I am a transactional lawyer, working in the field of Corporate, Banking and Finance. Off late, I have delved in to the field of Policy making in Finance. Presently, I am an LL.M. candidate at Harvard Law School.

Were any of your close relatives lawyers? What motivated you to choose law as a career?

I come from family of lawyers, most of them are into litigation, practising in Chhattisgarh High Court and Madhya Pradesh High Court. I grew up being surrounded and fascinated by law libraries, but never really thought about getting into the profession. It was only when I put my foot down that I no longer wanted to pursue medical and I decided to go for my calling to work in the area of finance and knew about Corporate Law. So I decided to explore the avenues within law to combine Corporate Laws and Finance. It was a lot of research and speaking to some senior people in the legal profession including my grandfather, Ravish Chandra Agarwal, Senior Advocate.

It was difficult also in the sense I come from a small town and back in the year 2005 when law was still considered to be an offbeat profession, a lot of my father’s friends tried to persuade him not to allow me a legal career mainly because it was not a profession for females. But thankfully, my father became the biggest champion of my decision to foray into the legal profession.

As I mentioned, I was preparing for PMT exams without being interested in it. During one of my discussions with my grandfather we spoke about how beautifully advocates marshall the law, to deliver justice to the common person. I wanted to do something as important, that is when I started looking for avenues within law that would allow me to combine Finance with it. Financial Regulation and Policy making essentially encourage to steer policies in the direction which could benefit large sections of people.

You did your graduation at New Law College, Bharati Vidyapeeth University. Any specific reason for choosing this institution?

Picking up legal profession was intended but I was late for law school applications and had limited option. I heard about Bharati Vidyapeeth and I knew it was a reputed institution. The environment was competitive so you always needed to be proactive, with many students participating in extra-curricular, particularly in moot courts and debates.

Tell us what factors contributed to your decision to pursue Masters in Banking, and Financial Regulation from London School of Economics and Political Science.

The fact that at law school corporate law was taught was very basic. I was introduced to a variety of areas like private equity, project finance and M&A only after working for a law firm. That is when I decided that I would want to pursue my masters. Choosing LSE as an institution was attractive for its location, its faculty and course structure. All of my professors were pioneers in the area of Finance, it allowed me to take a very good blend of regulatory laws together with transactional courses.

When did you decide to pursue masters? Was it a personal endeavour or a professional requirement?

I decided to pursue Masters during my final year of undergraduate degree but I thought of waiting for a year before I applied to foreign universities. It’s good to wait for a year in my opinion, after law school — I think graduates have a romantic notion about further studies.A professional experience gives that extra edge to make concrete plan about course concentration you want to work. I think it was personal endeavour for me delve into the kind of courses that I did.

How important are grades for an illustrious LL.M degree? What is more important for a successful candidature: grades or work experience?

I think universities focus on all-round candidate. If the potential candidate can show passionate interest in an area backed by outstanding achievements– it makes him/her attractive for the universities. Grades allow the universities to see if a potential candidate will be able to emulate his success even further after the LL.M. degree.

Can you tell our readers about how you shortlisted universities for your masters? Why did you choose London School of Economics and Political Science?

I applied to UK universities because I wanted to focus on Common Law jurisdiction and eventually wanted to return to India. Masters programs at Oxford and Cambridge were known to be best in Civil Laws, Constitutional Law, though they had excellent professors in Corporate Laws too. But my course preference was very varied. I wanted to study Financial Regulation and Banking courses, and combination of courses offered at LSE were very attractive for me.

Tell us about your time at LSE. How was the academic pressure?

LL.M comes with a heavy load, one has to squeeze in a lot of course structure in nine months, one might need to put in long hours to get through the course readings. It varies. I think it is fairly easy to cope up. LSE has semester system and students take exams at the end of the year in June.

How did your appointment as Associate at Clifford Chance, NY take place?

LSE organises Job Fair during the final semester with the participating law firms explaining the application process, the opportunities ahead and the work environment. I applied to the law firms individually based on my interest. Clifford Chance is fairly open about allowing its associates to choose jurisdiction they want to work in – I chose New York for diversity in deal structures.

Tell us about your work profile and work experience at Clifford Chance.

I was in Project Finance and Private Equity Team at Clifford Chance. The work was diverse and pretty hectic as the work involved two or more legal jurisdiction. Some of the deals that I worked involved structured contracts which required putting in long hours at work but it was fun.

Please share your experiences and any incident which you found most cherished and memorable.

(Smriti has been one of the rarest and meritorious students who had the privilege of being awarded the Golden Alumni Award, 2015 presented for excellent professional performance of alumni. This award was felicitated by Shri Pranab Mukherjee, President of India.)

My institution was kind enough to consider me for this prestigious honour. I was informed by my parents that I was being considered for the award. I was finally selected by my university registrar. Receiving an award from the President of India recognising my efforts makes my achievements worthwhile. I am elated.

Tell us about your current job responsibilities and assignments.

(Currently, Smriti is a Consultant Regulator at Indian Ministry of Finance)

I am a member of internal team set up to streamline policies in Private Equity. As this is ongoing work, I would not want to go into the details of my assignment.

How did this appointment take place? Were you looking forward to opportunities in India?

I always intended to return eventually to India and work in policy making after I have had sufficient professional experience to back my credentials. India, as a rapidly developing country, needs to have robust laws and regulation in place that supplements it growth aspirations in the global market, not just in finance but in every sector. This gives policy makers interesting opportunities to work on the diverse field of legal policy.

Your job profile at MoF must be quite different than that of Clifford Chance. How do you reconcile the job requirements?

Among other things, I am mainly working with the internal team set up by the Ministry of Finance to streamline Real Estate Private Equity Private Investment Trust. My background in Private Equity helps me to understand the Indian market well and to deliver regulatory changes which will steer the Private Equity industry in the right direction and also help regulators streamline the anomalies.

How did you go about the application procedure at Harvard? Do you have any scholarships?

(Smriti is set to pursue another Master’s Degree, from one of the premier law schools of the world, i.e. Harvard Law School (2015-16).)

Harvard has its own online application procedure which starts in Early September. And, the results are out by second week of March or early in April. Harvard requires in-depth understanding of applicant’s career goals and clarity of thought of how he/she wants to achieve that goal. Harvard also wants to understand how the institution itself will help in furthering individual’s goal.

As for the scholarship, Harvard awards scholarship and loans on the need basis. The application can be submitted along with the admission application.

How did you decide to quit your position at MoF and pursue Masters from HLS?

Fianncial policy making in India is very strongly influenced by US and UK market in India. I wanted to understand the core of policymaking by understanding the undercurrents that come into play. I am concentrating very strongly on interconnecting Economics and International Financial with Regulation. Harvard allows me to cross-register courses from Harvard Business School, Harvard Economics Department and Harvard Kennedy School, which is very attractive for me and adequately suits to my future plans.

You are a perfect role model for our readers who are mostly young and vibrant legal aspirants so what would be your parting message for them?

I think it is most important to have a good sense of understanding about your area of interest. Do your homework by gathering information on the avenues in your field of interest, doing this makes it relatively easier for a law student to crack open many career opportunities. And this can be most easily done if you keep visiting SuperLawyer!

Most importantly, do not be afraid of venturing out in untrodden career opportunities, there are essentially many ways to achieve your career goals. Find a way which works best for you, and be prepared to work very hard and commit to it.
August 31, 2015
Sidhartha Peddinti, Startup Lawyer & Business Consultant at GlobalQuest Ventures LLC, on being a business lawyer and strategy adviser
Sidhartha Peddinti graduated in Law from University of London through an unique programme through London School of Economics, in 2011. A graduate of Business & Economics from University of Toronto, he is currently a Startup Lawyer & Business Consultant at GlobalQuest Ventures LLC.

He started working in the Immigration Law Offices of RAK at USA. Thereafter he went on to become partner at California Law Services where he handled immigration and bankruptcy work. He describes himself to be a lawyer with an entrepreneurial mindset.

In this interview he talks about:
- His choice to become a lawyer even after specialising in economics;
- The options for a lawyer to become an entrepreneur;
- How he joined LSE and his experience at the institution; and
- His journey as an entrepreneur.
Tell us about yourself. Since when are you living in US? Where did you get your primary education from?

I am a real international citizen, in that I was born in Dubai, raised all over the Middle East, then spent three years during middle school at an international boarding school called Rishi Valley in India, moved to Toronto with my family in high school, obtained a bachelors degree from Toronto, a law degree from London, and then another advanced law degree from Los Angeles. So, my varied experiences and vastly different background has shaped my mentality, my attitudes, and my interests to be a hybrid of an Indo-Canadian-Middle Eastern, rounded up with an outdoor Californian lifestyle. I have been in the US since 2011, and have been an attorney since the past year and a half, i.e. January 2014.

You did your bachelors in Business & Economics from the prestigious University of Toronto, tell us something about the course, the school and why you choose business & Economics?

A pivotal moment shaped the way I thought about business and my career was in high school. I read a book called ‘Rich Dad – Poor Dad’ which I bought at a garage sale for $5. It explained the difference between (what the author referred to as the 4 quadrants) employees and self employed persons who fall in quadrants one and two, business owners and investors fell into 3 and 4. 1 & 2 work for their money – they don’t show up to work – they don’t get paid (even most lawyers fall in here – no client, no money). 3 and 4 found a way to be involved in multiple avenues and still accumulate wealth, while they are busy doing other things with their time or managing multiple assets they own.

I wanted to understand more about how I could end up in the sectors 3 and 4 – where I can get my money to work for me, a state where, through my acquired and vested interests in companies, homes, stocks, and other assets, I could receive multiple sources of income. This was the start of my interest into economics, and business – I simply had to understand the way different business models worked, how the market worked, and how to operate a business. After getting accepted into the best University of Toronto – the number 1 University in Canada, it was a real no-brainer that I had to pick this school. It was over 175 years old, and in the top 25 best universities in the world. The courses were very challenging, but it was rewarding to complete the degree and understand how market cycles worked, and how each industry was affected by these cycles.

A degree in Business and Economics is often enough to land anyone lucrative job at a big company. Why did you choose to do Restructuring through CAIRP, and then choose law after that, rather than accounting, finance, investments – the natural course for business majors?

Good question. Following from the previous question, after I understood the way the different models worked, I knew that there was a recession that was going to affect North America, atleast thats what our Economics Professors were predicting around 2005/2006. I researched this theory and found the bubble was about to burst since everyone had their credit over-extended. Virtually all my friends ended up choosing a big firm for either accounting, audit, strategy, or some for an MBA. I wanted to prove my theory of the recession and be involved in that game of using the market to my advantage I hunted for a boutique law firm that specialized in Bankruptcy law and restructuring law, and choose to join their practice as an Estate Administrator – a job that gave me a brief overview of the process involved. The pay was less than half of what my friends were accepting immediately after graduating, but almost immediately after joining the firm, I started a course, sponsored by the lawyer, in Bankruptcy & Restructuring law & consulting, through the association that monitored Restructuring Professionals in Canada called CAIRP – Canadian Association of Insolvency & Restructuring Professionals. I received my certification to consult in a very short time since I was lucky to finish all my courses and pass the state exam in one sitting. As soon I completed all my practical training, within 6 months of initially joining this industry, I started a firm called Clear Debt Solutions. From 2007 – 2012, I had over 1000 cases that I personally handled, close to 500 being business bankruptcies. The firm still exists and is controlled by partners who I hired when I joined law school in 2009.

You did your law from London Scool of Economics, through the International Law Program from University of London from 2009-2011. Tell us about your time there, and why you choose that program over Canadian or US schools?

After being exposed to many lawyers in my restructuring practice, I wanted to add law school to complete my quest to understand more about business and the legality of doing business. I started law school from the UK, rather than in North America, because I wanted to have a unique edge to my portfolio, that separates me from the normal law applicant. I choose the International Law Program specifically, because it was flexible in its timings, its lectures delivery methods, and its study methodology. During these years, my consulting firm was booming, as the recession got worse, my revenue got better, and by mid-2010, I operated 5 locations throughout Toronto. I had a partner, few employees and hundreds of clients every year. I could not leave all this to complete a full time law program, which most Canadian law schools offered (Only 8 in Canada by the way), and which was also required by Immigration for me to attend law school in the US.

By choosing to study in an International Program, based out of London, yet not being required to physically be present one hundred percent of the time, allowed me to work and study simultaneously – something that enhanced my understanding of the subject matter, while being able to practically utilize and gain ‘lawyerly skills’ through my practice in Toronto. Sure, it was hectic, since I flew back and forth, balancing school and work in two continents. I simply could not let either of them go. Of course, the fact that it was University of London, one of the best schools in world had a lot to do with it, and when they offered me an entire law degree in under $20,000 (plus still able to work) compared to $150,000 in the US – I could not pass up that offer, and in the end did not rack up a single dollar of student debt as compared to an average law student who has over $150k debt in the US.

Did you interact with Indian students there, given that UK law schools are a popular choice among Indian law students?

I met some incredible students who were also part of the international program. In fact, it allowed me to network with students from almost 50 countries directly through a portal system, something I checked out before I started the program, and many of those people are still my close friends to this day, in Canada, India, Pakistan, and even from Brasil and other countries. The pass rate at the International Law Program was roughly 25% after the 3^rd year, so unfortunately many of the Indian students I met did not manage to complete the program, or moved on from law into other areas.

With your LLM from Southwestern University, USA, you have received legal training from three countries. In what ways has this versatile academic environment helped you?

To remain true to my original quest of being in quadrant 3 and 4 – business owner and an investor, I knew that the opportunity for this dream truly existed in the US, compared to Canada or the UK (from a global standpoint). So, while finishing law school from London in 2010, I applied to LLM programs all over Canada and the US for the 2011 Fall start session. I knew that the market was slowly starting to pick up now, and in a few years the market would be in the re-building stages again. I wanted to be in the center of this movement, and by being in California – the world’s hub for innovation and technology, I could not go wrong being a lawyer and entrepreneur in California. I was lucky enough to be accepted into all the schools I applied to, and they even allowed me to start the LLM program before my final grades were released from University of London. It was a miracle, since the administrators office at Southwestern made this exception for the first time for a foreign student in over 100 years. In two weeks of starting, I received my grades, and another miracle happened where I was in the 15% of students who passed all the courses that year, thus getting my degree after I had already started working towards a LLM degree.

I picked Southwestern in Los Angeles because it was a school that had a flexible course options, and one that allowed me to complete the courses that I wanted to take. My eventual strategy was to attempt the dreadful California bar exam with 15% pass rate for foreign lawyers, and I knew I had to be prepared for it, since I am competing with local students with 3 years or legal training, compared to only 1 year for me.

You never took a job at BIGLAW while you do have an impressive lawyerly profile. Why so?

My interests, skills, and passion lies in entrepreneurship. I choose to do law to become a lawyer, but more importantly to become a good businessman. I believe that it has allowed me to think in a manner that is different from the lay person. I did not take up any positions at large firms because I believed that I have a unique skill set that would be wasted at a large firm, doing routine work, albeit they pay a lot for it. Many of my friends work a large firms, and making large paychecks, but the very thought of a desk job never appealed to me, and I have rejected some very lucrative offers in the last year, since I prefer to be out and about, running around making things happen. I am a very high energy individual who needs to constantly be in motion, and although for some of my friends BIGLAW has worked out great, it was never my cup of tea.

The California Bar is said to be the hardest law exam in North America with less than 15% pass rates for foreign trained lawyers over the past 30 years. Explain why you choose to do this crazy step, given these statistics?

I knew the statistics and I knew the high chances of failure. No one thought I could make this happen, since there are horror stories all over the web of people failing the California Bar 5 or 6 times. I thoroughly researched about every course I was expected to take, and by carefully selecting only Bar Courses, and some international law (my interest) courses in my LL.M, I was able to complete all core courses required by Californian law students that were going to be tested on the Bar. This allowed me to get the local training I needed for those courses, plus having international exposure. I nevertheless decided to take the bar and give it a shot, and luckily I was among the 22% of LL.M students that passed the Bar in my round of the California Bar Exam for July 2013.

Before we go into your entrepreneurship ventures, tell us about your legal consultancy work. How did you establish such a vibrant consultancy practice?

In my quest to be in quadrant 3 and 4, I engraved in my personal charter that I would understand different business models, so that I would eventually have various companies in my own portfolio. This is still my mission, and every time I meet an entrepreneur in a different industry, one unknown to me, I gladly take on the case to understand the industry better.

I had this mentality since I started my first business, and I have enjoyed every business I have consulted with. Thus, my present consulting practice is one that can cater to clients from many industries, and clients from all stages of the business cycle. I now understand how these different models work, and am easily able to put myself in the shoes of my client, the entrepreneur, and advice, strategize, and legalize – all in one chain of thought. It is a lot of work, since I spend the time to research about different industries, but I suppose I am hooked to it. This has left me at the crossroads of law and entrepreneur.

How is Canada or US as a career choice for Indian law students?

Canada is a great place for Indian lawyers – especially those in the midst of their careers. The process of qualification and the exams are easier, with almost a 80% pass rate. In my opinion, it is great for an entrepreneurial lawyer, especially one who wants to serve the Indian community – especially in Criminal, Real Estate, or Divorces. Litigation is primarily taken up by local law students – Indian or otherwise, and largely dominated by those who received local training.

US is a different beast altogether. The laws are also similar to British, but the legal ecosystem is very different. The bar is tougher, longer, and more intense. There are a lot of restrictions and qualifications the applicant has to go through. That said, a US lawyer is valued globally, and opens far more international doors than I would had as a Canadian lawyer in the international and startup up space. There are a lot of jobs in the US, especially for litigators, since the laws are geared towards solving grievances in court. There is also a lot more work for lawyers in the US, in terms of the types of law, the types of cases, and the truly unique legal system they have created here (I find a vast contrast from the Canadian and British legal culture). So, be ready to get comfortable knowing about the local culture, if you want to be a successful American lawyer in the US.

Why did you make the shift from Canada to the US?

My move was primarily because of two reasons: (i) large opportunity to be involved in the upswing of the economy in terms of products, startups, and opportunities; (ii) great weather compared to the bitter Canadian winters.

I have always wanted to be involved in the globalization of economies, and being in California was more suited to my needs than to accomplish that from Toronto. However, since I have a consulting practice in Toronto, I still fly there often and work there.

In the US you started working at Immigration Law Offices of the RAK. How is the work culture there and did the local reference help you understand the culture better?

In my attempt to find out the local work culture and integrate into local legal scene, I decided to work for a solo lawyer, plus he knew immigration laws, so I did not really have to pay a hefty price for an immigration lawyer to figure out my visa. To understand immigration laws in the US is very important, it is the most complex system in the world, and a simple violation can be disastrous. I figured by working for an Immigration lawyer, I could hit three birds with one stone – (a) local work experience, training, and integration; (b) learning about immigration laws; and (c) did not have to pay for an immigration lawyer since he mentored me to fill my own paperwork which I wanted to get a grip on anyway.

You were a partner California Law Services and worked there for a year. Where are you currently working, what kind of work do you do there?

I worked as an Immigration and Bankruptcy lawyer with my previous employer, RAK, turned partner at the new firm. We mainly handled immigration and bankruptcy work, both which were areas I had some comfort with. I found both areas to be very competitive, and faced fierce competition. Meanwhile, my personal interests in entrepreneurship were not being fulfilled, so post my return from India last December to explore the startup scene, I joined as a partner at a boutique firm which was focused on law, entrepreneurship and startups.

I currently work as a partner at GlobeQuest Ventures, LLC – as the name indicates, we travel the world looking for startups and companies to help them in their entrepreneurial journeys – legally, strategically, and practically. I absolutely love it – and finally have been able to combine my passion of law and entrepreneurship in one.

Please tell our readers something about your entrepreneurship journey, and how you lived your 20’s working and studying?

As I mentioned earlier, reading that book changed my career path. I was getting the education and theory side of it, but I also wanted to work on the practical side of it. I started my first business as soon as I finished the book in high school, aged around 18 or so. I have never looked back, and have been fortunate enough to have made that step at such an early age. I had some sacrifices along the way, but I see those as opportunity costs, and have not regretted any missed vacations, or parties (missed many of them). I made sure to have a very vibrant social when I could and led an active lifestyle to compensate from the stress from my business and school. Sports was my way of balancing myself, and I enjoyed playing 5 different competitive sports in my 20’s.

How many companies in total have you founded?

I have been fortunate to be part of 8 different companies to date. I have recently acquired equity portions in 3 new companies, and hope to be part of another 100 companies in the next 20 years or so.

How do you define yourself, as a Lawyer or as an entrepreneur?

A lawyer with an entrepreneurial mindset. My dream of combining both my passions has led to work in a dual capacity – working as a lawyer when needed, or as a founder, partner, strategic advisor, or in-house lawyer. I value flexibility and adaptability greatly, and my past experiences that allowed me to transition into role with relative ease.

Tell us something about your latest startup venture.

Through GlobalQuest Ventures, LLC, my recent clients have primarily been disruptive technologies that are in the mobile app space. One is a disruptive journalism app, another is a Uber for private planes, and another is a revolutionary dating site for a selected and elite customer.

Another venture I started is called LLMbartutoring.com, a tutoring school that is dedicated to helping foreign trained lawyers integrate into the California system by assisting in local cultural transition, job training, course assistance, Application help and California Bar Exam training. This information can also be found in my personal ventures section on my webpage.

On the other side, I started working on some revolutionary product lines with some very famous scientists, who specialize in holistic medical formulations. I have approached some celebrities and famous television personalities to team up with us, and can possibly secure a very large deal in the next 2 months that can help us potentially move millions of units every year. That would satisfy my itch to be a co-founder in a truly non-legal business – a turmeric infused skin care line, scientifically backed and tested by the foremost expert in turmeric infusions.

Your website sidharthapeddinti.com seems to be offering a complete ecosystem of service for startups. How did you manage to that?

By finding a way to incorporate all my interests in one way through GlobalQuest Ventures, LLC, I decided to put all my thoughts on one site, that describes me as a person, as a lawyer, an entrepreneur and eventually as an investor (with my portfolio). Thank you for mentioning my page, since I built that page myself in less than a day. I have no previous computer training, programming or coding or any other backend experience, but I knew that by watching the right videos and reading the right articles, I could do it myself. I have since created 5 webpages, and even got some people asking me for a referral for the company who created my site. In short, I want to prove and inspire people to understand that anything can be done, with the right mindset, and if a non-tech person like myself can make wesites in a day, others can live their dreams and make it happen over night as well. That was the real motivation for the site – inspiring people to live their dreams by quitting their boring jobs as a first step.

Are you also working with any Indian companies who are looking to expand internationally?

I have started to form many strategic partnerships with corporate lawyers, startups consultants, and other individuals who are involved in the Indian startup scene. I am eager to enter the Indian startup space and help take those companies international – US, Canada or other countries. We look to form strategic alliances, joint ventures, mergers, acquisitions, and even where lucky, take it public.

I am looking to team up with key individuals in India who can help me in this quest. That is the reason my company is called GlobalQuest Ventures, LLC – where law meets entreprenrurship and strategy.

What advise will you give to young lawyers who want to become an entrepreneur?

I find the practice of law requires a different set of entrepreneurial skills than a mobile app company or a revolutionary product. Being part of an elite subset of society, one that is highly regulated and controlled (worldwide), lawyers have to follow certain protocols that other entrepreneurs may not necessarily face, especially relating to contacting potential clients, or advertising standards, or types of deals that one can take one.

Thus, solo lawyers who want to hang their own shingles should think like a lawyer first, and only after taking all the protective measures, one should engage in their targeted marketing campaigns. So, it’s a unique type of an entrepreneur who should expect 3-5 years, at a minimum, to start realizing the resulting they imagine. I know a lot of lawyers, and virtually every single highly successful lawyer that I know, has been practicing for at least 5 years. So, there is no way to get around patience.
August 16, 2015
Gitanjali Ghosh, Assistant Professor, NLU, Assam, on LLM at NLSIU, academics and teaching as a career
Gitanjali Ghosh graduated from North Eastern Hill University (NEHU), Shillong (2013). In law school she has interned with NHRC and was adjudged as the best Mooter at Henry Dunant Moot Court Competition. In 2014, Gitanjali completed her LL.M from NLSIU, Bangalore and has joined NLU-Assam as faculty. Along with teaching, Gitanjali is pursuing her Ph.D from NLSIU.

In this interview she talks about:
- Law school experience at NEHU.
- LL.M from NLSIU, Bangalore.
- Internships, mooting and her dream to opt teaching as a career.
How would you introduce yourself? Tell us a bit about your pre-college years. What motivated you to study law?

I hail from a town called Mangaldoi in the state of Assam. I finished my schooling from Don Bosco High School in my two and +2 from Cotton College in Guwahati. I went on to pursue B.A. LL.B. (Hons) from NEHU, Shillong and LL.M. from NLSIU, Bengaluru. Currently, I am also registered as a Ph.D. Scholar at NLSIU. Professionally speaking, I would like to introduce myself as an Assistant Professor of Law at the National Law University, Assam where I am also associated with the Centre for Child Rights. I am a very simple, family loving and God-fearing person. I have my fair share of undesirable traits but in all I try to be a good person. I was good at academics right since my ABCD days but I thoroughly enjoyed my school days, despite all the pressure of doing well in Board exams to getting into whatever it was that I wished to pursue, thanks to my friends. I was not great at sports but I did pretty well at cultural events.

Studying law, I would say, must be due to pure genetics (my parents are lawyers). On a serious note, I always wanted to be a teacher, never a lawyer or a judge or anything else for that matter.As I grew up, my inclination towards pursuing law followed by a career in academics was but natural. Honestly, there is no particular thing that I can pinpoint as my motivation.

How would you describe your time at NEHU? Tell us about the academic environment and faculty at the law department of the University.

I had a wonderful time at NEHU as well as the city it is situated in i.e. Shillong. You have to be there to understand why. It is truly the ‘Scotland of the East’. We were the fourth batch to be enrolled in the Department of Law, NEHU and in many ways, we were better off than our seniors in terms of infrastructure, hostels, teachers, library etc. However, we had our fair share of difficulties as well. The academic environment at NEHU is not as hectic as we see at law schools but a lot of effort is put into by a majority of the faculty members in ensuring that the students learn law and are clear with the basic concepts.

Did you take part in extracurricular activities? How important do you think that extra-curricular activities are to a law student?

I believe, in today’s world, where recruitment is largely based on one’s curriculum vitae, extracurricular activities are very important for any student. Apart from this, as the saying goes, all work and no play makes Jack a dull boy (law-related extracurricular activities are everything but play). Also, extracurricular activities help one in gaining confidence as well as exposure.

During my preliminary years, I did not have any information about the scope available to a law student, which readily resulted in my lack of inclination towards these activities. Hence, I spent a lot of time on my academic endeavours. My primary objective was to do well in my studies (I was the gold medallist of my batch) and most importantly, learn the basics of as many papers as I could and be thorough with the papers I wished to pursue further (it is not possible to learn every paper thoroughly). However, with the coming of Internet into my life or should I say with the learning of its proper use, things changed (it was difficult to get even phone signals during my initial years at NEHU). I don’t have a long list of activities that I participated in but I participated in the Henry Dunant Memorial Moot Court Competition where I was adjudged the ‘Best Advocate’ and our team was ranked 5th (a big thanks to our teacher who guided us and my dear teammates).

Do you believe that excellent CGPA is absolutely necessary for success?

It may not be absolutely necessary but its importance cannot be negated at the same time. A decent CGPA gives the much-needed boost to those students who may not be the toppers of their class but do well in other extracurricular activities.

What were your areas of interest during your graduation? How did you go about developing expertise and knowledge in these areas?

International law and human rights are two areas for which I have nurtured great interest ever since I was pursuing B.A. LL.B. (Hons.). I went on to pursue LL.M. in Human Rights and currently, I am engaged with the teaching of these subjects as well. The only way of developing your knowledge and expertise in any subject is to simply read, read and read.

Did you do any internship during your graduation? Did you receive any assistance from your college?

Apart from the regular internships with advocates, I interned with the National Human Rights Commission, New Delhi where I won the Best Intern prize.It was a great experience. Department of Law, NEHU did not have any policy to assist students with their internships but the faculty members were kind enough to right letters of recommendation and help in any other manner within their power.

What do you have to say about the supposed ‘elite’ tag attached to certain law schools? Do you believe branding of college is something that’s very relevant/ important at any stage in a law student’s career?

I don’t think ‘elite’ is the right word to describe these institutions because they were not born elite. Both the faculty and the students of these institutions have made several efforts to bring name and fame to these institutions.

Given the scenario in today’s time, the brand name of one’s college has indeed attained a position of relevance in a student’s career. While students from renowned colleges are automatically presumed to be good at what they do, students from the not so renowned colleges have to put in a lot of effort to be able to create such presumption in their favour.

When and how did you decide to pursue Masters? Was it a professional requirement or an endeavour out of academic interests?

I had decided to do pursue Masters even before I joined Bachelors as I had made up my mind at a very young age to become a teacher, although I was not very sure of the subject. When I joined B.A. LL.B., it was only a question of time before I went ahead with Masters towards the fulfillment of my long cherished aim of becoming a teacher. You can call it a professional choice made on the basis of my academic interests.

You have done your LL.M. from NLSIU, Bangalore. Can you please share your experience at NLSIU? How will you compare the environment at NLSIU with that of NEHU?

I met some of the finest teachers, students and made some friends for life at NLSIU.Also, NLSIU gave me my first job as a Researcher at the Centre for Women and the Law. One year LL.M. was undoubtedly hectic and it gets over even before you think it has started but it was,although draining at times, an enriching experience. I am still associated with NLSIU as a Ph.D. Scholar.

Asking me to compare the pedagogy of NLSIU and NEHU are akin to asking someone to differentiate between their two eyes as both are my alma mater. It may not be actually fair to compare the two given the fact that they are majorly different from each other and represent two different kinds of institutions i.e. one being a National Law School and the other a traditional university.

Looking back, how significant do you think that your legal education was? When did you happen to experience the learning curve?

Well, I am still a student of law but the legal education I have pursued until now has been quite fruitful in terms of both learning as well as career. However, the main significance of my legal education lies in the fact that I have not lost my interest in it and indeed, have found areas of law, which I am quite interested in pursuing further. Further, with my Ph.D. thesis, I wish to contribute to the largely unexplored field of tribal customary laws and with my teaching, I wish to help students to not only learn but also to retain their interest in learning law.

I really cannot pinpoint a certain point of time or situation when I experienced the learning curve. It has been a continuous process, I believe right since I started studying law.

When did you exactly decide to take up teaching as your profession? Has it become easier or more difficult for you to understand the psyche of young students in this process of teaching?

As I have already said, I always wanted to become a teacher. I cannot recall the exact time I made this decision but as far as I remember, I have always considered teaching as my profession and nothing else. Given the fact that I was myself a student not two months back and that most of my students are my brothers’ age, it has been very easy for me to understand the psyche of my students.

Please tell us about your experience with regard to your first year of work as a PhD scholar at NLSIU? What kind of researches you were entrusted with?

Well it has not been a year since I registered for Ph.D. at NLSIU but in this period of time, I have had an enriching experience in my many roles as a Research Scholar, a Teaching Assistant as well as a Researcher at the Centre for Women and the Law at NLSIU. Also, given the fact that I was the youngest in the class, I learnt a lot from my fellow scholars during our course work.

As a Research Scholar, the only research one is required to do is on the topic chosen for writing the thesis. However, the Course work requires one to study Research Methodology and Computer Applications as well.

Please tell us about the requisite soft skills which are essential for a young teacher to build a successful career?

Apart from a thorough knowledge of the subject that one is entrusted to teach, being humble and humane towards one’s students is of utmost importance. A teacher should always give due regard to the fact that she/he was also once a student and no matter how many years pass, there are certain issues which are common to the students at all times and those need to be addressed humbly and patiently.

Do you feel that there are differences between students of ‘elite’ law schools and students from other law colleges and traditional universities?

Students are same everywhere but the opportunities available to them make all the difference. I have studied at an elite law school and also at a traditional university. I do not know about others but I could definitely perceive a change in my life. While at NEHU, I had to tell people what NEHU is (That’s ok) but where is NEHU (Shillong? Where’s that? This was frustrating. Geography and G.K. are probably not well taught these days at school). However, these questions disappeared with NLSIU (what a relief). On a more serious note, there is a common misconception among students from traditional universities that law school students are better than them (I too had this misconception) and even among law school students whose law schools are not ranked higher in the law school rank lists and owing to this misconception, they suffer from lack of confidence. In short, opportunities and confidence are the two major differences.

What are your views on the future of Indian legal education? How would you suggest that a law student manages to stay ahead?

Indian legal education has a bright future ahead but sadly, for only those who can afford the top-most institutions. There are many a good students who will loose a lot owing to this unfortunate situation but that does not mean that they should be discouraged from taking up law. CLAT is not the only way to success although it might seem to be the easiest.

Going by my own experience, a law student should be informed and thanks to the technological advances, she/he no more requires the college notice board for this purpose. Information is power.

If you could list out 3 activities which on a scale of priority, should be at the top in any law student’s school-life, what would those be?

Make friends for life (it has nothing to do with law but will help you survive law school and life)

Concentrate on Academics

Writing research papers and extracurricular (as per one’s interest and capability)

What would be your advice to young law students? How do you think that they should approach their career?

Have a lot of fun while at law school but take care not to jeopardize your academic and extracurricular interests in the process. As clichéd as it may sound, but, sincerity and hard work are the essential requisites for an amazing career (a bit of good luck as well).
August 11, 2015
Jaya Kumar, Business Development Manager, J. Sagar Associates, on an unique work experience of Marketing+Law
Jaya Kumar started out as a graduate of English Honours from Sophia College, Mumbai, then moving on to pursue a three-year law from G. J. Advani Law College, Mumbai, from 2005-2008. She decided to take an unconventional path of choosing Marketing over being a legal Associate, by first working with Rainmaker, then Trilegal, further moving on to I&S Associates, a corporate-commercial Indian law firm. She has now been working as a Business Development (BD) – Manager at J. Sagar Associates (JSA) since 2014.

In this interview, she tells us about:
- The experience of interning throughout the last two years of law college;
- The reason behind choosing the managerial aspects of law over the more traditional ones of corporate law or litigation;
- The experience of having worked for such different kind of firms, along with the different work profile she dealt with for each;
- Her work as a Business Development Manager.
How would you like to introduce yourself to our readers who are young lawyers and law students?

I would call myself a lawyer by qualification, currently working as Business Development (BD) – Manager at J. Sagar Associates (JSA). I do understand law, but my interest is more on the marketing side of law. I have completed my English Majors from Sophia College, Mumbai, then proceeding to pursue a three-year law from G. J. Advani Law College, Mumbai.

I started my career with Rainmaker, followed by Trilegal, then a stint at I&S Associates, and now at JSA.

What prompted you to study law after completing your English Honours?

I wanted to be a journalist, but as things planned out, I never got accepted in any journalism college, haha! My father kept telling me to opt for law, but I nevertheless reserved it as a backup plan. Thus I didn’t bother to make any serious efforts to apply in all the law colleges. I got accepted in G.J. Advani, and also since I am the third generation lawyer in the family, I opted for law as a career. However, I had no idea about the BD aspect of law. My internship at Rainmaker helped me to understand the details of marketing/ BD in the legal industry. It was a new concept for me, and it sounded different and interesting.

You are a graduate of the 3 years LL.B course from G. J. Advani Law College. Please tell us a little about your law school days. What kind of internships did you do?

I was doing two internships simultaneously during the law college days (starting from the second year), one with a senior lawyer, Ms. Neelofar Akhtar at a Family Court, and the second one with Rainmaker, founded and co-founded by Mr. Sachin Malhan, Mr. Bhavin Patel and Mr. Ritvik Lukose, and they had just started developing products for the legal industry. My college timings were from 6: 30 am till 11: 30 am. I used to then go to the Family Court till 3: 00 pm, and thereafter to Rainmaker. I was trying to absorb as much as I could, in those two years.

What were your areas of interest during your graduation? How did you go about developing expertise and knowledge in these areas?

As I mentioned earlier about my two internships, I was most interested in practical knowledge. Law for me was vast and strange till the first year, but by the second year, it started making sense in terms of both the theory and the marketing bit of the industry, because of the internships.

Did you find that your law school education had prepared you sufficiently for the many tasks you were required to execute during your internships and later at your job?

A law college only teaches you the theory part of the law, and not the aspect of marketing yourself or the firm, but I took it as a new curve in my growth, and learnt the unusual. Also, because I chose a different stream of work in the legal fraternity, I had more need of the practical aspect of the field of law, rather than the theory. Ironically, I never interned in any law firm, but I learnt on the job with Vahura, Trilegal, I&S Associates, and now JSA.

Right after graduation, you joined Rainmaker as an Associate in their Sales and Marketing Department. What prompted you to choose the field of Marketing? How did you secure your appointment at Rainmaker?

I applied directly to Rainmaker for an internship, and it all started from there. By my second year of college, I realised that if I put in more efforts, I can be a good marketing professional. After my internship, I decided to join Rainmaker as an employee, and started handling the Sales and Marketing for the Western India.

What comprised your work in the Sales and Marketing Department as an Associate? What were the responsibilities you were entrusted with?

At Rainmaker, we were developing products for law students and lawyers, especially litigating lawyers, and also people interested in LPOs. It involved travelling and meeting law schools, litigating lawyers and budding lawyers for whom joining LPOs was a good career option.

Why have you chosen this particular avenue of Marketing and Business Development, and why not legal practice at a Corporate Law Firm?

At my stint at Rainmaker, which is also a recruiting company for lawyers, I had not come across anyone doing BD as a full time job. After Rainmaker, I joined Trilegal and realised this is what I like, and because it was a different kind of work in the industry, I believed that the value of this kind of work will have more avenues once the market opens for international firms. At Trilegal, I had an opportunity to work with Allen & Overy (A&O), when the firms had a referral relationship. It was very exciting to work in that setup, and it made my decision stronger to do BD for a law firm, rather than provide a legal opinion, or do transactions.

What led to your recruitment at Trilegal? Tell us about your recruitment process at Trilegal to our readers.

When I was looking to move from Rainmaker, my mentor’s (at Rainmaker) wife was doing BD at Trilegal, and she was looking for a junior, as Trilegal was looking to build a BD team at the firm. He recommended my name to her. Mr. Karan Singh then interviewed me, and as I had some experience in sales and marketing, I was taken on board. I was lucky to work at Trilegal.

Our readers would like to know about your work profile as an Associate of Business Development in a Top-tier law firm in India.

As a BD professional, I am involved in the indirect marketing of the firm by assisting in the visibility of the firm. I assist the partners and the firm, as a whole, to maintain their presence in the market. Sector tapping and industry intelligence is another part of my job, along with helping the firm market itself, both nationally and internationally.

What kind of Business Development skills should one require working in a Top-tier law firm like Trilegal?

No law school or MBA school can teach you marketing in a legal firm, but the most important thing that one should have is the will to learn and take a risk of doing something different from the peers. Be it Trilegal or any other law firm, at a starting point, one should research well on things such as what BD of a legal firm actually means, why a law firm is not allowed to market themselves, and what the difference between a direct and an indirect marketing is. Knowing some law helps, but even if you don’t have a law degree, you can still join the BD team. These skills can only be learnt on the job, but if BD is what one wants to be a part of, one has to be a people’s person, along with having a good hold on the language.

You have worked with Trilegal [Mumbai office] for nearly 2 years and 5 months, as an Associate of Business Development of the firm. Share your work experience in brief to our readers. Was the work schedule hectic at times?

Trilegal was the first law firm I worked at. My practical learning of BD at a law firm started then. I was lucky to work at Trilegal, and at a time when they had a referral relationship with A&O, it broadened my platform of learning. I did put in long hours, as I was new to the concept of BD, and I really wanted to understand and learn this side of the legal sector. Trilegal was very supportive.

How did you start working at I&S Associates?

I wanted to start growing as a professional and start implementing BD strategies, rather than only execute them. A friend who knew about an opening in I&S helped me get an interview slot there, and hence the job.

You have worked with I&S Associates as a Head of the Strategy and Relationship segment. Tell us about your work experience at I&S Associates.

I&S was a small firm founded by Ms. Anuradha Iyer and Ms. Bakhtiar Sunavala,and it gave me a way to start implementing my ideas. The partners were very cooperative and understanding about the new concept of BD. I was in I&S for two years.

Currently, you are working as a Business Development Manager of J. Sagar Associates. How did you secure your appointment at J. Sagar Associates? Did you get an offer from the firm?

JSA Mumbai was looking for someone who can do BD for their firm, and my name was recommended by Ms. Anuradha Iyer to Mr. Akshay Chudasama, who was looking to expand the BD team, and he then interviewed me. I then met Mr. Berjis Desai and Ms. Dina Wadia for the final confirmation. I was fortunate that they offered me the BD – Manager position.

How difficult would you say it is, changing workplaces and creating a comfort zone all over again?

With experience, it’s just a matter of time about how professional you are to be able adjust in a new place. One has to understand the culture of the firm, and take baby steps to make their mark. In my view, it’s not difficult to create a comfort zone all over again if the person is willing to learn. There are adjustments in any new place, but we have to learn to gel and focus on the growth, and other things will fall into place.

Kindly walk us through your role at JSA. How different is it being a Business Development Manager from an Attorney?

As the BD – Manager of the firm, I assist the firm in sustaining their visibility in the market. My role is to assist the partners and the firm as a whole, to develop new client relationship and strengthen the existing client relationships that we have. I help with the client events, deal submissions, cross – selling, proposals and pitches, attending conferences and also helping the partners to attend the relevant conferences/ seminars, rebranding, market intelligence and sector tapping, help the attorneys network etc.

What are the main qualities that one should acquire to be successful in the Business Development field? Please share with our readers.

Patience is the key to be successful, and as there are no specific courses or graphs that one can follow, it takes time to get the grip of the type of role a BD person needs to do. Also as attorneys are mostly busy with the deals, a BD person needs to follow up, not once, not twice, but several times, to get the information from them, and then send it out to the public domain. This needs patience, and an understanding that BD is important, but delivery to the client is also important for the partners and attorneys. As they juggle between everything, all they need is our support to market what they work on.

How is your experience so far? What is your workday like? Are there new challenges every day or did work fall into a predictable pattern?

My experience has been very good till date. I am fortunate to have worked with the best since I started my journey. As all of us know that with lawyers nothing is predictable, and thus, most days are filled with some or the other kind of work. The category of work may be similar, but different clients have different demands. I am informed of these demands by the attorneys, and then I have to customise the research and information. Challenges are there, but with JSA being a very supportive and cooperative firm, work gets on time.

What would be your parting message to law students who want to be successful in the Business Development field, and want to work as a BD Manager in a top-tier law firm like you?

Nothing comes easy, so remember to have patience, and do not shy away from the hard work. As a BD professional, you will be the odd one out in the firm, but let that work in your favour, rather than making you feel lost. BD is an important function of the firm, so put your best foot forward to understand which firm requires what kind of BD, since some will need aggressive marketing, while some only need their visibility to be sustained. Do your research on the firm and the partners of the firm well.

Choose the right firms, but always choose the learning before anything.
August 8, 2015
Nandan Kamath, Founder, LawNK, on building an illustrious career in Sports Law and IPR and being a Rhodes Scholar
Nandan Kamath traded his dream of being a professional cricketer for a life in law, and since then, there has been no looking back for him. A graduate of National Law School of India University (NLSIU) in the year 2000, Nandan has been a recipient of the Rhodes Scholarship. After completing his BCL in Law and M.Sc. in Economic & Social History from Balliol College, University of Oxford in 2002, he went on to pursue his Masters in Harvard Law School.Soon after graduating in 2003, he joined as an Associate with Davis Polk & Wardwell, where he worked for three years. On returning to India, he founded his own law firm, The Law Offices of Nandan Kamath (Law NK), which is one of the leading law firms in the country in the field of Sports, Media, Technology and IPR Laws.

With this interview, he opens up to students about:
- The importance of hard work, dedication and discipline in the field of law;
- His dual Masters in law from Oxford University and Harvard University;
- His experience of working at an international law firm;
- Working in close connection to a field close to his heart – Sports
You are a law graduate from NLSIU, what motivated you to pursue Law, especially from NLSIU?

I was a law student by chance, rather than by design. In my teenage years, I was a sportsman first, and a student next. I had my eyes set on a professional career in cricket, and chose my pre-university college purely on the strength of its cricket team. The first time I heard of NLSIU was when they sent a volleyball team to participate in our college sports festival, and I remember seeing the players’ jerseys and only thinking, at the time,that N-L-S-I-U was quite an odd jumble of letters put together. The next introduction to the law school was when the college cricket team I was on, ended up playing against (and beating) the NLSIU team. As thoughts of needing a proper college degree began to loom, I heard from a classmate about the NLSIU entrance test. Being interested in word games, puzzles and logic, I thought it would be an interesting experience for its own sake. I looked over a couple of past test papers the night before the exam, took it, and surprised myself by making it through. Although things were certainly not as competitive then as they are now, getting through the entrance exam convinced me that I might have some aptitude for the law. At least the examiners thought so!

Tell us about your time at NLSIU, what were your career plans after graduation?

Life at NLSIU didn’t get off to a particularly auspicious start. Dr. Menon made it very clear at my entrance interview that I had to choose to either pursue cricket or law studies (but not both), as the institution only had space for full-time students with strict attendance requirements. In the pre-IPL days, the odds were stacked against making a career out of cricket, so it wasn’t really much of a choice. Having made that trade-off, I put my head down and took my academics quite seriously for the first time in my life. It seemed like the right thing to do – to make full use of the opportunity if, in order to pursue it, I had given up something I was good at and enjoyed. I found that the institution was an excellent place to become aware of various national and international issues.The regularity of project work and exams enforced a level of discipline which I was quite happy to adopt. At the same time, it was quite challenging, in various ways, to be at an institution with students from all over the country, each asserting and debating different identities, perspectives and ways of thinking. It gave me a broad and useful platform in the study of law and people in general. I also met some of the smartest people I know during my five years there. In terms of career plans, I was fortunate to be selected for the Rhodes Scholarship at the beginning of my final year, so my immediate plans were made for me.

After Graduation you went on to pursue BCL from Oxford as a Rhodes Scholar. Please tell us about the course and your time at Oxford.

The BCL was a very rigorous, jurisprudence oriented course, and the academic standards were very high. I did courses on intellectual property and transnational commercial laws. The perspective was very different, with the focus being on why laws are the way they are and how they have come to be, rather than the descriptive study of the law I had been used to. It needed a fair bit of adjustment to think more analytically and to have an opinion and a view on the law, rather than being required to know what it was. In my second year at Oxford, I did my Masters in economic and social history with a focus on the history of networks and technologies, and found it very interesting. Overall, my time at Oxford was idyllic with a great mix of sports, social and academic activities. I met an internationally diverse group of people during my time there, each person with multiple interests and skills. My time at Oxford broadened my perspective and my horizons, both socially and academically.

You did not end your academic streak at Oxford, but went further and pursued LL.M from Harvard. What was it like to get into, and study at Harvard Law School?

I applied to Harvard Law School after having completed my BCL, so that probably strengthened my application. Being at Harvard Law School after two years at Oxford involved moving from a multi-disciplinary social setting, to the company of hundreds of highly-charged law graduates,most of whom had never stood second at anything they had done. It was a very competitive environment and not particularly easy going. Nonetheless, I found the LL.M. was very helpful as preparation for law practice.The weekly reading load was huge, and overall, the courses were intense and challenging (befitting the atmosphere). I found the analytical frameworks used by the teachers quite fascinating and very practically relevant, whether it was the economic analysis of law, legal realism, or anything else. It gave me a new lens to look at the law with, and added nuance and process to my thought process.

How do your dual Masters in Law help you in your current work profile? Do you plan to go for any further studies?

I believe that one’s law studies and degrees are only as valuable as the lawyer they produce. My studies have certainly given me a lot in terms of perspective, ways of thinking and analysis, and that is very valuable.Other than that, I don’t think the tags of being from a particular university help me that much in the work I do, other than perhaps leading to a (rebuttable!) presumption that I am not completely inept. As for further studies, I think the phase of my life involving formal academic study is probably behind me –I can’t really see myself going back to the classroom, exams and dissertations. But I’ll never say never – I may just surprise myself if something really excites me.

Given your academic record, were you ever interested in pursuing an academic career?

I do enjoy teaching a few classes here and there, alongside my law practice. However, pursuing an academic career was never on my agenda. I didn’t feel I had either the intellectual firepower, or the patience required to master an area of law sufficiently to teach it repeatedly, consistently and engagingly.

After your LL.M from Harvard you joined Davis Polk, a global law firm.How did you get recruited there?

I had met one of the senior partners of the firm during an internship in Mumbai at ICICI Bank,while still in law school, and had managed to stay in touch. A few years later, when I finished at Harvard Law School, I got back in touch, was called for an interview and made it through the process. It wasn’t a very hot job market at the time and I consider myself very lucky to have got the opportunity.

What is it like to work in a big and global law firm?Please tell us something about the kind of work you did there.

I worked for three years at the California office of Davis Polk in the intellectual property and global technology group. The work involved intellectual property and corporate advisory, especially in relation to mergers and acquisitions, and capital markets transactions. It was the perfect first job for me. It was challenging both substantively and in terms of work hours and it forced me to up my game, and push my limits. I found a number of mentors among the partners there. The importance of attention to detail, personal responsibility for (and pride in) work product and client orientation were my main takeaways. I also saw that it is possible to create an open, friendly and informal work environment without compromise on work product and quality standards.

You left Davis Polk after three years, what were your reasons to do so?

When I started my studies abroad, I had set myself a target of being back in India in 5-6 years. The end of this period also coincided with some plateauing in my learning and it was becoming clear that the big law firm trajectory was not the best one for me. I left Davis Polk after a brief stint in Hong Kong and Mumbai,and moved back to my hometown Bangalore, where I wanted to live and work. I didn’t have a specific work plan but was happy to put down roots and figure things out.

You set up LawNK – The Law Offices of Nandan Kamath after you left Davis Polk, what was the motivation behind going independent?

My father is a Chartered Accountant who started his own practice from scratch, worked hard, and succeeded off his own steam. Watching him from close quarters helped me recognise the many advantages of independence. It also inspired me to chart my own course, without too much fear or doubt coming into the picture. Having the opportunity to choose what I was going to work on was a big luxury, and I was determined to work in an area I loved – sport. With a view of working on sports law, I went about meeting a number of athletes, coaches and others working in the nascent sports industry.

Every one of them made it quite clear that there was little value a lawyer could add at that point, given the lack of structure and professionalism in the field. That feedback temporarily set back my plans to establish a sports law practice. I involved myself in other ventures in sport and athlete representation, which gave me a ground level view of issues Indian athletes were facing and the state of play overall. Over time, I started getting requests for legal assistance from others who were making their way in sport business and I began advising them as a sole practitioner. The game changer came in 2008 with the IPL. The professionalization of sports through the league brought sports contracts into the mainstream in India. This is when things took flight, and the firm has grown organically since then.

LawNK – The Law Offices of Nandan Kamath specialises in Sports, Media, Technology and IPR Laws.How did you build your client base, especially since you spent your formative years outside the country?

Over the years, our clients have found us rather than the other way around. A well-defined focus in terms of practice areas, and a team that is knowledgeable and passionate about the work, are our greatest strengths.The client base has built through word of mouth, and it is not something I have ever actively worried about. We focus on our work, and know that interesting work will find us when the time is ripe and the opportunity is right.

You are also a Trustee at GoSports Foundation.Tell us a bit about it and your role therein?

GoSports Foundation (www.gosports.in) is a non-profit that I co-founded in 2008. The organisation’s vision is to empower young athletes and enable them to achieve their Olympic and Paralympic dreams. Being quite aware of the state of Indian sports, we started GoSports Foundation to contribute our bit to the growth of an athlete-centric sports ecosystem in non-cricket sports. Our quest is to bring professionalism and positivity into athletes’ journeys and to ride with them through ups and downs, providing financial support, mentorship, access to expertise and career advice. As Managing Trustee, I play an active role in the administration of the organisation, and support the executive team wherever needed in the programmes. It also provides me the opportunity to work with our Board of Advisors, which comprises of Abhinav Bindra, Rahul Dravid and P. Gopichand, in thinking about Indian sport and making meaningful interventions. It is work that I love and an organisation I am proud being a part of. I have met fascinating people along the way, and my work with GoSports Foundation has opened doors to a wide variety of experiences – from hosting a TV sports show, to designing national talent support schemes, working with childhood heroes, being on selection panels and drafting state sports policies. While it is often challenging work and requires lots of self-belief, I have received far more from it than I have given.

Rahul Dravid on extreme left and Nandan Kamath on extreme right.

Who form your clientele? Could you please share with us any representation you are particularly proud of having worked on?

Our sports practice advises a wide range of governing bodies, franchises, players and sports brands. Cricket and football have been the primary disciplines but we are now seeing more in tennis, badminton and golf, and the new professional leagues are also mushrooming. Other areas of our special focus have been advertising and marketing laws, e-commerce, privacy, food and beverages law, and medical law. I am particularly proud of our team for being empanelled by the ICC as the official law firm for the Cricket World Cup hosted in India, Sri Lanka and Bangladesh in 2011. It was a great honour and privilege, and watching India win the finals was the icing on the cake!

Do you think playing sports has helped you as a lawyer?

I have always believed that playing serious sport is excellent preparation for professional life. With the benefit of many years of experience now, I think this is even more so for the law. Competitive sport provides early exposure to the adversarial process. It also requires one to make real-time decisions based on dynamic, unstructured data –which is only possible to do competently if you have prepared thoroughly, and practised hard. All this is not too different from law practice! Also, sport teaches you that although it is primarily your own individual pursuit, you are almost always playing in a context – representing someone or something else (a team, institution or even a country). Similarly, it is a client and/or a cause that makes one an advocate, and that is always good perspective to carry. Finally, you learn from sport that you are only as good as your last innings, but I’m going to ignore that for now because my last one was a duck.

Many of our readers would be interested in having a career in sports law and representing celebrity sport stars. What would be your advice to them?

If it is truly a substantive area that you are interested in, it is a field worth investing time and energy into. The glory and glamour fade away quite quickly, so it is important to have the right motivations – that will help you stick it out through the early days and mature and stay passionate about and interested in the work. Other than that, the best advice I got as a young lawyer was to become a good lawyer first before attempting to add any prefixes (such as ‘sports’ lawyer), and to focus first on learning the tools of the profession – in transactional law, that includes things like client communication, drafting, time management, multi-tasking,organisation, attention to detail, and finding one’s own methods and practices. If you have built a strong practice toolkit, adding new substantive areas to the repertoire is actually not that difficult. Sports law is not rocket science and it is an interest that can be pursued at any point by a skilled lawyer.

What do you look for when you hire lawyers to work with you?

We look for self-motivated young lawyers who have also demonstrated their interest in our practice areas. Our firm has graduates from NLSIU, NALSAR, Symbiosis, ILS, GNLU and NUJS, so it is quite a diverse set. A few have come through our internship process, which is a good outcome for all concerned. I am very proud of the lawyers in our firm, and have enjoyed seeing them grow steadily as professionals. From what I see, today’s young law graduates are better trained and prepared than I was when I finished law school.

Do you provide for internship opportunities? Where should a law student apply if he/she wants exposure in sports law?

Yes, we do have an internship programme. We accept only one or two interns at a time to make the experience meaningful, so spots are limited. It is a chance to give law students exposure to the types of work we do, and our work environment. There is an online form (http://www.lawnk.com/home/) that interested applicants can complete for more information on the process.

It is a dream to work in the subject we love for most of us. What do you have to say to those who didn’t end up doing what they love the most?

As one steadily moves up Maslow’s hierarchy of needs (I told you that NLSIU left a lasting impact!), beyond security and the need for external recognition and validation, I feel that the journey ends up becoming about two things – the pursuit of mastery and the pursuit of engagement. Mastery brings the joy of excellence; engagement brings the joy of working on things one cares about. It is only the lucky few whose pursuit of both mastery and engagement unify in their daily work, or even converge on a regular basis for that matter. I feel the rest of us must remain open to tapping different and diverse outlets and sources if we are to simultaneously experience both of these pursuits. For whatever reason, not everyone might get engagement with things one loves at the workplace. But it is still possible to find an outlet for this, maybe through hobbies, volunteer work or even by innovating within the limitations of the workplace. Life is too short and you are already very fortunate if you know what you truly love!

What would be your parting message for our readers?

Have a clear career plan in mind, but leave enough room for chance to play its part. Also, stay open to being inspired.
August 7, 2015