Super Lawyer

Category: Interviews

  • Niharika Maske, Law Officer, Bank of Baroda, on application, recruitment and job requirement at banks

    Niharika Maske, Law Officer, Bank of Baroda, on application, recruitment and job requirement at banks

    Niharika Maske graduated from NLIU, Bhopal in 2011. She has participated in various co-curricular activities and has multiple publications to her name. Also, she has an excellent series of internships at top law firms. Soon after graduation, she started working at Juris Corp, Mumbai as an Associate. Currently, she works as a Law Officer at Bank of Baroda.

    In this interview, she talks about:

    • Law school experience at NLIU
    • Work experience at Juris Corp
    • Induction and work at Bank of Baroda

    Given that most of our readers are law students and lawyers, how would you introduce yourself to them?

    Hi, this is Niharika Maske. I can certainly introduce myself as an accidental law graduate from NLIU, Bhopal. Currently I am working, not by accident this time, as a Law Officer – Departmental Head of Legal department in Bank of Baroda, Bhopal Regional Office.

    Though it’s one of the most asked questions but yet, why law?

    Mmm. So honestly speaking, ending up in Law has been a fortunate accident for me. Like most of the students at my age, I was preparing for medical and law was nowhere near my thoughts as a possible career option. I accidently came across a piece in the newspaper about law as a career and NLIU and thereafter just randomly filled up the entrance form for NLIU. Cleared the entrance and here I am today, thankful for the fortunate accident.

    You have done your graduation from NLIU, Bhopal. How would you describe your time there as? Tell us about the academic environment and faculty at NLIU.

    NLIU – my alma mater. My time at NLIU has been blissful. I feel you can never thank your alma mater enough because it gives you so much – knowledge, name and the strong foundation which you require in shaping up your future. NLIU is truly one of the finest Law Universities in the Country. I had the privilege to study under some exceptionally knowledgeable teachers like – Ghayur Alam Sir – Knowing the law is one thing, but knowing how to read it – is what makes all the difference and that’s what he taught us. Then V.K. Dixit Sir – trust me when I say this, if you ever get a chance to even attend any one lectures, never miss it. He taught us Jurisprudence in a way that no one can match – co-relating law with our day to day practical life, it was just beautiful. And the list will go on. So in short, I would say NLIU gives you more than you can expect from your college.

    What were your areas of interest during your graduation? How did you go about developing expertise and knowledge in these areas?

    Initially, Constitutional law was the one subject which excited me the most. I think rarely you will find a young law student who is not mesmerized by those landmark judgments shaping our Constitution. In the later years of law school I started interning with law firms and was exposed to multiple areas in commercial laws, for which I developed a gradual interest. Securities law, which also was my 1st area of practice, is also something I enjoyed. Relentless reading, research papers and umpteen numbers of discussions with my friends really helped me in law school.

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    Your internships at law school have all been with top tier firms. Our readers would be quite curious to know how you went about securing these internships.

    Here, I would definitely like to share my experiences. When we were in 1st-2nd year, we literally had no idea how to go about internships, where to apply, how to apply and when to apply. So for the students in their first and second years, I would suggest to go for internships in District court/High court/Consumer Forums/Human Rights Commissions/NGO’s – try and get knowledge of procedural law in your initial years. And by that I mean try and learn the law in practice as its quite different from law in books. And from third year onwards go for internships at Law Firms (litigation and corporate both – would help you in analysing your area of interest)/Corporate Houses.

    Now coming to how to apply, start applying for internships somewhere in August end for winter internships and around February end for summer internships. Dropping an e-mail along with your resume is never enough. You need to follow up through call and pursue and show that your keen to work with them. Also, contact your seniors in the respective Law firms/offices and convey your intention to apply and I am sure that each of your alumni would be more than happy to help (that’s how I secured some of my internships). That being said, there are few firms/corporate houses which provide internships through college placement cells. So you can always apply there.

    My last internship which got me a Job at Juris Corp – was through Placement Cell of my college only. So all you need to do is just plan a little bit and things will fall in place.

    A lot of law students in their primary years of law school plan to change the legal regime of India. Have you ever felt that kind of thought crossing you?

    I still do. I believe that education, in any stream, empowers you to empower others. Every small step taken is a change in itself. So whenever and wherever I get a chance to make something right I try my best to do it.

    Do you believe that excellent CGPA is absolutely necessary for success?

    For me the golden rule was that a good CGPA never harmed anyone. A good CGPA does reflect effort on your part and in most cases most obvious means to acquire knowledge. I would not say that an excellent CGPA has an ‘absolutely necessary’ role to play in success.

    But yes, it does have an important role to play. See from a plain simple recruitment perspective, these days Law, as a career option, has become really popular and a lot of youngsters are taking it up and the competition has increased quite a bit.

    So in order make yourself stand out, you do need to give importance to your CGPA. That obviously does not mean you need to be a topper, is absolutely necessary. But maintaining a decently good CGPA would help you in the long run. One should always remember that a good CGPA is one of the filters which a prospective employer may use to decide interviewing/ recruiting you.

    You have publications in various renowned journals. How should one go about writing papers and getting the same published?

    Suggestions here are would be:

    1. Read a lot;
    2. Choose a topic intelligently and
    3. Contact the journals/magazines etc. which are concerned with the area of law you have written on.

    How did publishing affect your legal career? Apart from academia, does it help one to secure jobs at all?

    How I feel about publications is that, apart from academia, when ever any organisation is looking to hire, they don’t just look into how well you have scored in your exams. They also look for other achievements of yours apart from it and how active you are in other extra-curricular activities. I feel having good publications definitely helps a lot in securing jobs. It gives you that little ‘extra’ weightage to your resume.

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    Soon after graduation, you started working at Juris Corp as an Associate. How did your appointment take place? What worked for you in securing the job?

    Yes, so as I stated before, that my last internship got me the job at Juris Corp. Juris Corp has a well defined procedure of recruitment – they recruited through internships only. So they had called for applications from our batch. They shortlisted my application for summer internship for both May and June. Now, I knew that there procedure of recruitment was if they like your work in summer internship, they will give you a call back for winter internship and after that again if your work is good, they will give you the job offer. I don’t know why but I wanted to crack the job in my summer internship only and I believe this ensured my single minded focus for these two months. Co-incidentally the placement of our batch was going to commence from 7th August and but I was given pre-placement offer and I took it. Being the first to get a job from my batch – felt amazing.

    Currently, you work as a Law Officer at Bank of Baroda. Please tell us about the recruitment process at Bank of Baroda

    Bank of Baroda and other Public Sector Banks excluding SBI recruits through written examination conducted by IBPS (Institute for Banking Personnel Selection) which is then followed by interview and based on your aggregate marks and your ranking in merit list you are allotted the respective Banks according to their vacancies. So I had done preparation for the written exam seriously and as they say hard work never goes waste, I managed to get through the written exam and interview.

    How did you go about preparing for your interview? Do you remember any of the questions asked to you?

    I did prepare for the interview. As the recruitment was for bank, so I studied banking laws in particular along with Contract Law, Transfer of property Act and CPC, IPC as well. The interview was really difficult; the panellist actually can ask you anything and everything. They mostly asked me questions pertaining to SARFAESI Act, Contract Act and Transfer of Property Act. Apart from this they also asked me questions regarding my future plans in career.

    Any tips on how one should go about framing a C.V. and prepare for an interview?

    I would say keep your CV simple, precise and to the point. Don’t exaggerate or put something just for creating a good impression, unless you can justify and explain what you have written in it. Always remember to highlight your strengths in your CV as the interviewers would expect you to know completely about what you have mentioned in your CV. Say for example, you wrote an article on Takeover Code. Now at the time of interview, don’t limit yourself to just the topic you covered in your article. You should be aware and updated about the recent and major developments relating to it as well. Don’t try to put anything in CV that you may not be able to answer during the interview if asked upon.

    Tell us about the nature of work you’re entrusted with? How is the experience so far? Tell us a bit about the bank, your typical workday and the overall work/life balance.

    The work in bank is varied. Anything and everything remotely linked with law will be given to you. I look after vetting of loan documents, title search reports, monitoring of Consumer Cases, Civil Suits and DRT applications, SARFAESI proceedings, legal aspects of recovery proceedings, RTI applications and appeals etc. So the scope of work is varied and very demanding. You are acting as an advisor to nearly 80+ branches of your Region. So you need to have thorough knowledge of your subject so that you can provide correct guidance. The experience so far has been good. Every day is a challenge and comes with new issues and opportunities to learn something new. Work/life balance in a public sector organisation is slightly better than law firms. The work is not less I would say but, the work timings are better. You get free around 7-8 pm maximum. And so you are able to spend time with your family and friends.

    What were the biggest hurdles and challenges in the first few months? How did you deal with them? What do you think makes a good in-house counsel?

    See, having joined at a ground level and having no practical experience in banking law, it was quite a task and challenge for me to understand the type of work for the first few months. But I have been lucky to have got amazing seniors at the office who understood and acknowledged the fact that I had no prior experience in banking law and gave me time to understand the work and gave me guidance wherever I got stuck. So that helped me a lot. For being a good in-house counsel you need to have complete knowledge about your area of work and patience to peacefully handle clients.

    It’s been almost two years of your work experience in banking law. What would you say contributes to the high attrition rate of the top banks?

    The opportunities are growing day by day. Better job prospects makes one move from one place to another.

    Does Bank of Baroda take interns?

    Bank of Baroda does not take interns. But I have moved a suggestion to our head Office at Mumbai for considering taking interns as I got to know that students are keen in getting internships here. So, if this materialises, I think it would help students get an idea of the work and working environment at banks. Though the recruitment would still be through written exam only, but I feel the internships will be beneficial for students.

    Many people believe that working as an in-house counsel affords more work-life balance and is less demanding. Would you agree?

    I agree with that partially. Working as in-house counsel does give a work/life balance but it’s equally demanding. The work is no less and is varied and very demanding. Imagine proposals of 1000 crores just depending on your saying yes or no as regards legal viability of the same. So I feel, every job has its own challenges and is demanding.

    What would be your parting message to law students?

    I have always believed in few mantras which have helped me always in achieving what I want. First that hard work never goes waste and that there is nothing in this world that you can’t’ achieve if you sincerely work towards achieving it. So be sincere, honest, dedicated, focused and do everything – be it small or big to make your dream come true. Start asking yourself the question where do you see yourself in the next 2, 5 and 10 years from now. That will help you have an answer as to what do you want to achieve. Having realised that, start working towards it, plan it out a little, speak with your seniors, take their guidance. Remember – Your Will decides your Fate. Not the other way round.

  • K K Sarachandra Bose, Senior Corporate Lawyer and Civil Rights Activist on the ‘Caste Eradication Bharat Yathra’ and value of social work

    K K Sarachandra Bose, Senior Corporate Lawyer and Civil Rights Activist on the ‘Caste Eradication Bharat Yathra’ and value of social work

    K K Sarachandra Bose is a corporate lawyer with experience in Dubai and various other jurisdictions over the last three decades. A member of the International Bar Association, he studied law from R.L. Law College Belgaum, Karnataka, and graduated in 1976. Currently he is a partner at Dal Al-Adalah Advocates & Legal Consultants at Dubai, and Bose & Bose & Nair at Cochin.

    Between all his commitments of being a lawyer, he has found out time and energy to pursue a very noble mission: Eradication of caste system in India. He plans to achieve this by effecting a paradigm change in Indian law through constitutional reforms. He is the author of the book “Caste Away – India, Hinduism and Untouchability.”

    In this interview he tells us about:

    • What prompted him to spread social awareness in India for 54 days and travel across 18,500 km.
    • Eradication of Caste Discrimination in India.
    • His second Bharat Yathra, i.e. the ‘Caste Eradication Bharat Yathra’ which starts today.

     

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    Our site is directed at law students and lawyers. How would you like to introduce yourself to our readers?

    I am a corporate, commercial and contracts lawyer practicing in Dubai and other jurisdictions for the last over 36 years; a member of the International Bar Association, visiting professor in International Business Law, legal columnist in several publications, addressed over 100 law seminars as a guest speaker; Chairman of Global Dialogue Foundation, and Unity in Diversity under the auspices of the United Nations Alliance of Civilizations since its inception in 2007 till date.

     

    Tell us about your years before law school. Were there particular childhood incidents that proved to be an inspiration for you?

    My childhood was all thrilling. Being born in a very rich family and my father being a Gandhian politician gave away almost all our wealth for the welfare of the society. We lost almost all our wealth and my mother had to sell her land to pay for my college fee. My father took care of the society but not his family and children. This prompted me to first take care of me and my family and then the society. I witnessed low and high caste among human beings during my childhood in my own house when my father served food to field workers, few workers were in an enclosed place and the rest, the vast majority in the open field in pits dug and leaves inserted. I was really pained to see that my own playmates were ill-treated.

     

    What inclined you towards legal education?

    I was good in mathematics and got admission for Engineering after passing pre-degree (12 grade) but though the college fee was paid, I left Engineering and got a job and then pursued BA as an external student and then law as an internal student in R.L. Law College Belgaum, Karnataka.

     

    What would you say were the instrumentalities of law school which helped to frame your career?

    I was a studious student, though a college gunda, in the words of my college principal. When our University Vice Chancellor cancelled the Carry Over Benefit (COB) without giving any prior notice, I took the lead and got his order reversed by the State Governor, Chancellor of the University.

     

    Our readers would be keen to know any specific incident which has driven you to become a social activist.

    From my childhood, I feel the pain if another person is hurt. While in Dubai during 1977 – 1990 period, I used to visit the labour camps with journalists and highlight to the government the pathetic living conditions of the labourers.

     

    What prompted you take up social activity and spread awareness for any grave social cause in a full time manner?

    (KK Sarachandra Bose is a corporate lawyer by profession and a partner at Dal Al-Adalah Advocates & Legal Consultants at Dubai and Bose & Bose and Nair at Cochin.)

    In the legal profession, I believe my clients like me so much and my opinion on corporate and contract matters are well sought by corporates of the highest order. But I always say, legal profession is for my bread and butter, my blood is social activism for the benefit of the society as a whole.

     

    Tell us about your whole journey/social drive in your own words.

    (He travelled across India for 54 days to promote the cause and covered around 18,500km along with his 30 member team and distributed books, free of charge, across the country.)

    My 54 day Jathi Nirmarjana Bodhavatkarana Sandesa Bharat Yatthra – 9 June to 1 August 2014 – was really a thrilling one. I visited the entire Shri Mahabharat including the North Eastern states which people say normally nobody visits. I could see and witness the ill effects of the evil caste system in my country. While in Rajasthan, I was told, by some local people considering themselves as low castes there, not to speak about the caste system as the upper caste people may come and harm me. I increased my volume and told very loudly that this is my country and nobody will dare stop me. Some people told me that they want to make the savarna people avarna and paint the buildings in Delhi with the same brush and paste that they are forced to carry every day to clean lavatories. I enjoyed huge support not only from the so-called lower caste people, but from the upper class who hates the caste system. In Tripura, the Buddhist Sangha there promised full support to eradicate the caste system from India.

     

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    You have authored a book “Caste Away – India, Hinduism and Untouchability”. What message did you intend to give to your readers through your book?

    My book “Caste Away – India, Hinduism and Untouchability” is the result of my 40 years of research, studies, discussions and conviction on the subject, caste system in India. I have gone through our history beyond the Vedic period, or to say, prior to Vamana avatar. I have seen, as if I were there, that we had a great past prior to the Vedic period and that was exactly the Brahmanism – Sathyamvada, Dharmamchara, Athidhi Devobhava. This Brahmanism has been killed and murdered in our country for the past over 5000 years and I am re-introducing it and I am asking everyone to adhere to it.

     

    How far would you say it is possible to eradicate the caste discrimination among Hindus and other religions from India?

    It is very easy to eradicate the caste discrimination among Hindus and other religions from India. We should understand that there was no caste system before 5000 years, there was no caste system before 300 years. Similarly, there was no Hinduism before 5000 years and there was no Hinduism before 300 years. Caste system which is an offshoot of Hinduism, in the words of our Hon’ble Supreme Court, originated during the British India rule and not before. We had colour system in India, the black skinned Adivasi aborigine people and the fair or white skinned aggressors. When I say, aggressors, please do not get confused as they are also our brothers and sisters from the same grandparents, Manu and Satrupa or Adam and Eve as called in the Western world. The whole issue in the world is the two skin colours, black and white skins. Slavery originated in our country 5000 years ago as the fair skinned aggressors enslaved the black skinned Sri Mahabharatvasis. Slavery went out from our country and spread as an epidemic in the whole world. Once caste system is abolished in the Hinduism which is the breeding ground of slavery, then all those who left and became untouchable Dalit Buddhists, Dalit Jains, Dalit Sikhs, Dalit Christians, Dalit Muslims etc., will all become Brahmins in its sense – Brahmjnane iti Brahmana.

     

    What type of feedback you were you receving from the people at large?

    Feedback from the people at large is tremendous. No one has ever told me that either he or she wants the caste system to continue. There are several letters of support in my file.

     

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    What are the main social causes in your priority list which you intend to promote through your second Bharat Yatra?

    (He is all set to start his second Bharat Yathra, ie, the ‘Caste Eradication Bharat Yathra’ which is commencing today on 9th May 2015.)

    In the Caste Eradicatin Bharat Yathra commencing on 9 May 2015, I will be conducting mass upanayanas in public in the presence of the five headed creator God Bhramadev representing the five elements of creation by priests well versed in pre-Vedic rites declaring all as Brahmins and thus remove that feeling of lowness in the minds of the people.

     

    Do you follow the ideologies or philosophy of eminent leaders like Mahatma Gandhi or Raja Ram Mohan Roy in regard to eradicate caste system?

    No, I do not follow ideologies or philosophies of any leader. I follow my heart and I have developed my own ideology. For instance, Shri. Mahatma Gandhi wanted to abolish untouchability by retaining the caste system. While Article 17 of our Constitution abolishes untouchability, several other articles in the Constitution reintroduces untouchability through the caste system. How can I follow such a tricky ideology or philosophy? That is why, I have loudly said, quoting several judgments of our Supreme Court, that our Constitution is tricky and there is fraud in our Constitution and it must be amended.

     

    Did you get any reply from The Centre or do you think the government will take any serious steps or preventive measures regarding the eradication of caste discrimination from India?

    (He also sent a notice to the Indian Government regarding the abolishment of caste system or to banish the caste system from India.)

    I did not get any direct reply to my notice from the Government. But I received several indirect replies and reactions from the Government such as, Janardan Dwivedi’s comments to stop caste based reservations and introduce economic based reservations and Sonia Gandhi’s rebuttal thereto; Mohan Bhagavat’s call to eradicate the caste system; world religious leaders calling for eradication of the Indian caste system by 2020; International Bar Association supporting me; Supreme Court lawyers supporting me; hurried Ghar Vapasi by some Hindu orgainzations in bringing the escaped people back to their earlier low caste or slave status; etc.

     

    Do you think you will be successful in complete eradication of poverty and casteism from India?

    I am a doubtless person. I will see the end of the caste system in the very near future. Government, I mean the Indian society, will have no option but to amend the Constitution and abolish the caste system.

     

    Did you get any positive response from there supporting your cause?

    (He has also organized seminars for Indians who visit Dubai and deliver lectures to help them understand the laws, rules and regulations of the country.)

    I am getting support from all quarters.

     

    Do you think every lawyer should devote some time towards any social cause and work on it?

    I do think that every lawyer should devote some time towards social causes. The lawyers unlike other professionals or businessmen, have the knowledge of the law and also have interaction with the laws, law makers and the law courts. When a layman is also not exempt from the knowledge of the law as law is considered universal, a lawyer has the privilege not only to know the laws but also to counter the laws if found unsuitable.

     

    Last but not the least, would you like to leave any message for our readers?

    I wish all your readers understand the basic human values and treat another human being as a human being, not as an animal as in the caste system based on the skin colour of the people.

     

  • Prerna Singh, Consultant, PwC, on shifting from Law Firm to Accounting Firm and law school experience

    Prerna Singh, Consultant, PwC, on shifting from Law Firm to Accounting Firm and law school experience

    Prerna Singh is a graduate from School of Law, Christ University (Batch of 2011). Her internship experiences were quite diverse. She has interned with various prestigious law firms including Trilegal, Dua Associates & LKS. While in law school, she participated in various co-curricular activities and has multiple publications to her name. She was a proactive mooter and has both participated and won a few moot court competitions in law school. Soon after graduation, she started working at SRGR Law Office and thereafter shifter to Archer and Angel, Advocates and Legal Consultants as an Associate. Currently, she works as a Consultant at PricewaterhouseCoopers in Risk Advisory.

    In this interview we talk about:

    • Her days at Christ College, Bangalore and at various internships
    • Her work experience at SRGR Law Offices.
    • Her professional shift to Archer and Angel, Advocates and Legal Consultants.
    • Working as a Legal Consultant at PricewaterhouseCooper, India.

     

    How would you introduce yourself to our readers? Tell us what motivated you to pursue law as a career.

    Well I was born in Bihar and brought up in Jaipur. I did my schooling at The Nest Children Secondary School and India International School in Jaipur, after which I moved to Bangalore to pursue law from Christ College. I am currently working with PricewaterhouseCoopers India at their Mumbai Office as a ‘Consultant’ in their Risk Advisory LoS, prior to which I was working with law firms in Delhi and Mumbai.

    That question is particularly of significance in my case because I am the first one and by far the only one to have pursued law as profession in my family. I am not sure if there is this one thing that I could point at as my reason for pursuing law but it wasn’t accidentally for sure. I had taken up science and maths as my core subjects after 10thgrade and was preparing to write engineering entrances and it was in the later part of my 12th grade that I got consciously inclined towards law.

    As philosophical as it may sound, I use the term ‘consciously’ because I believe that it must have been there subconsciously long before it came to realisation. I am an avid reader and back in those days used to be majorly hooked on to novels. I used to love reading John Grisham books. Also, it so happened that I would end up spotting a lot of articles in the newspapers every other day on law as a career option, its prospects, on law schools in India and so on. Around the same time, I also ended up meeting my father’s friend, who had interestingly studied multiple subjects including law and so my obvious question to him as someone who was considering law as a career option but was not absolutely certain about it was – “Having studied subjects from almost every stream, which is your favourite?” and his instant response to that was something to this effect “Law, hands down” and post that answer, I was sure that I wanted to give it a serious shot. Looking back, it feels like all these were ‘omen’ in Paulo Coelho’s terms guiding me towards pursuing law. Today, when I think of it, I cannot place myself in any other profession but law and I cannot thank my parents enough for supporting me in my delayed decision of pursuing law and understanding where I was coming from despite being a science maths student.

     

    Tell us a bit about your days at Christ College, Bangalore?

    The five years spent in Bangalore during law school days continue to be my favourite. These five years were crucial being the foundation years of my life and it could not have gotten better than Christ College and Bangalore. I owe hugely to my days in Bangalore for who I am today as a person and feel extremely privileged to have studied at Christ.

    Our curriculum in law school was quite hectic and packed back in 2006-2011. We had regular classes from 9 am to 4pm on most days with additional certificate courses and maintaining 85% attendance was mandatory, failing which disciplinary actions, including barring from writing exams were taken. Further, we had multiple assignment submission with stringent deadlines for every subject in each semester, which meant spending time in the library almost every other day post classes, researching and reading up on various subjects. Add to that the weekly presentations for certain subjects and readings for everyday class.

    After having this as your regular routine, if you are someone who is active in co-curricular and extracurricular activities such as mooting, debating, writing papers, sports and cultural activities in law school, which I was, one had to stretch even further. Having said that, most classes were made so interesting and interactive that there were days when you could find us in classrooms continuing the discussion with the batch mates and faculty members even post the classes. I for one had started loving that routine, for it was so enriching in more ways than one. Every day spent in law school was a learning that helped me grow both personally and professionally. I can easily and confidently say that my batch (Batch of 2011) was the most privileged one to have been taught by some of the best faculty members across law schools in India.

     

    How were you various internship experiences when in law school?

    My internship experiences were quite diverse and inspiring. I used to intern every semester, in fact most of us used to, as a certain number of internships were also mandatory in law school. We used to break after every semester for close to five to six weeks and I preferred utilising every such break by interning. By the end of 5 years, I had 13 internships in total starting from State Human Rights Commission, NGO, company to law firms like Trilegal, Lakshmi Kumaran &Shridharan, Dua Associates, Holla & Holla Advocates and so on.

     

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    In your opinion, how important are extra-curricular activities are for a law student? Do you feel these are activities that should left to the discretion of students or be partaken mandatorily?

    I personally think co-curricular and extra-curricular activities are quite important and play a huge role in developing a person’s personality and outlook irrespective of whether the person is a law student or not. Having said that, from my personal experience, it is particularly beneficial for a law student to participate in co-curricular activities such as mooting, different styles of debating, writing and presenting papers at various forums for various reasons including improving and enhancing your research, drafting and oratory skills, which are quite important in a lawyer’s life, irrespective of whether you choose to be a corporate lawyer or litigating lawyer. Also, participating and doing well in these activities alongside academics gives you the much needed exposure, increases confidence, adds to your personality and reflects well in your resume. Some of these activities also prepare you for your professional life ahead to a certain extent.

    So far as your question on whether these activities should be taken up mandatorily is concerned, I think everyone is grown up enough in law school to know what is good for them and what is not and hence to each their own. However, I would personally recommend everyone to be active in law school and at least take up one such co-curricular/extra-curricular activity that you really like or have always wanted to take up…it could be anything-sports, music, debating, theatre, mooting, publishing papers. Not only for the reasons that I have cited above, but also because this is the ideal time to pursue anything that you are passionate about. Also, I believe one needs some sort of recreation constantly and pursuing extra-curricular/co-curricular activities does not only take care of that but also channelizes your energy in the right direction. For me that activity was mooting and I think I evolved with every moot that I participated in, both, personally and professionally. Also each time I represented my law school and won moot court competitions, it gave me an unmatchable high.

     

    Soon after graduation you joined SRGR Law Offices as an Associate. How did your appointment take place? How would you describe your experience?

    By the time I was in my fifth year of law school, I was certain that I wanted to start my career with a law firm- thanks to the multiple internships I had undertaken by then. So I applied to a few law firms in Delhi, SRGR Law Offices being one of them. Subsequently I was called for an interview and soon after that I got an offer to join them.

    My first job was at SRGR Law Offices and it was a wonderful experience working there. The partners of the firm are not just extremely knowledgeable but also grounded and approachable. I worked in their general corporate law team and did a lot of work relating to power and infrastructure laws, FDI, FEMA and so on. I also got to do a lot of drafting and reviewing of various commercial agreements. It was a great learning place for me as a fresher.

     

    Generally the first year after graduation is the most defining time of a fresh law graduate. What would you suggest a fresh law graduate should do to hold spirit and utilise the opportunities available?

    No matter how well and how many subjects you are taught in law school, your professional life as a lawyer is drastically different from that of law school. As a fresher, it takes time to sink that in. It is important to have an open and positive mind in your first job so as to make your learning optimum. Also, one needs to be patient and treat every job assigned no matter how big or small equally important and give it their best. Being a fresher, one should be particularly dedicated towards work so as to learn extensively and gain the trust of seniors to handle bigger transactions and responsibilities.

     

    Thereafter you left SRGR to join Archer & Angel, Advocates and Legal Consultants. What led to this shift in your professional portfolio?

    I was planning on doing my masters in law from the US in early 2012 but decided to defer it by a few years. In the interim, I got an interview call from Archer & Angel, Advocates and Legal Consultants for a position in their Mumbai Office. I was not actively looking to move out but decided to take the interview nevertheless and ended up liking the profile offered to me during my interview. Also, I always wanted to work in Mumbai (it being the financial capital of India and the hub for corporate lawyers) so I decided to take up the opportunity and it was absolutely worth it.

     

    You have published a lot of papers in various prestigious journals. How should one go about writing papers and getting the same published?

    The first step towards publishing papers is to identify the broad topics/subjects of your interest and then look for journals that publish papers on those particular subjects. Once you have identified a reputed journal that covers your area of interest, peruse the guidelines and the instructions including the format, style of citation, eligibility and structure well and ensure that you understand and abide by all of it while writing the paper.

    It is important to research extensively, narrow down your topic and get the structure and flow of the paper right in your mind so as to execute it. Further, ensure that the content including your view comes out clearly and does not contradict or confuse the reader. It goes without saying that the ideas will flow better and there may be several changes in your draft structure once you start penning down your thoughts and incorporating it in your paper/article. Nevertheless, it’s always good to have a basic draft structure in place before you start, no matter how many revisions it may have to go through eventually.

    So far as getting your work published is concerned, different journals/publications have different criteria for selection. Some journals may require you to submit an abstract of your paper first, review the same and then decide whether they would like you to work on the complete paper. The word limit of these abstracts could vary anywhere from 200 to 500 words for different journals. Then, there are journals, which would straight away want to review your paper on the topic and decide whether they would want to publish it or revert with their comments and suggest revising the paper or discard it outright.

     

    How did paper publishing and other co-curricular activities help you in acquiring skills that are important for a successful legal career?

    Mooting, publishing papers and presenting papers at various national and international conferences have helped me tremendously in my legal career. I would like to reiterate that research, drafting and oratory skills are extremely important in the legal profession and my active participation in these co-curricular activities have most definitely helped me in enhancing these skills and my knowledge base. Also, participating in these activities makes you a more confident person and lets confess it one certainly enjoys the laurels and recognition that comes along with it. Last but not the least, in hindsight I realise that having these credentials in your resume leave an impact on the recruiters as one can gauge a lot about you as a person, your skills, your strength, motivation, personality, interests, efforts and characteristics through the activities that interest you. Separately, for those who are planning on doing their LL.M from abroad, having these credentials in your application certainly makes a difference and gives you an edge over others.

     

    Currently you work as a Legal Consultant at PricewaterhouseCoopers, India. What made you choose this particular avenue? How did your appointment at PwC take place?

    Having worked for close to three years with law firms, I was keen on exploring the work culture and work profile offered to lawyers at consultancy firms. Last year, I decided to make a shift from law firm and sent my application to a few consultancy firms. I was fortunate enough to receive a call for interview from PwC, Mumbai where I had three rounds of interview within two weeks, out of which the last round was with the partner, post which I was made an offer to join PwC.

     

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    We would love to hear about your work profile. What is a normal workday like?

    I am a part of the Risk Advisory team at PwC. My work profile includes setting up of compliance framework for clients from different sectors, drafting of governance level policies for different clients, reviewing agreements for clients across sectors, identification of risks (legal and commercial) and advising on risk mitigation and so on. My work profile constitutes a good mix of research and drafting. It also includes meeting and interacting with clients, understanding their business needs, models and operations in order to add value and deliver well.

    Every day at work is unpredictable which is what makes it both challenging and interesting. There is a lot of multitasking required on a daily basis as you may be working on multiple projects/assignments at a time. Therefore, time management is crucial as there are stringent deadlines to be met more often than not and you have to be on your feet constantly.

     

    Are you allowed to interact with clients?

    Yes, as stated earlier I am allowed to interact with clients. In fact meeting and interacting with clients, understanding their business needs, models and operations is a part of my work profile.

     

    Tell us about a pinnacle case which you were a part of. What steps do you take to prepare for a difficult case?

    I cannot discuss a specific case for more reasons than one, including confidentiality of course. However, there are multiple challenging instances that you are faced with on a regular basis and it feels good to look back and know that you handled it well and tactfully.

    I personally think that no matter how hard you try, you cannot really prepare in advance for a difficult case (except may be begin your research in advance) unless it is a repeat and if it is a repeat then it is no longer difficult! Different assignments may pose different challenges and not all challenges can be apprehended in advance, so more often than not you are required to think on your feet when faced with an assignment specific challenge.

     

    How do you keep yourself abreast with latest industry news and trends?

    I try and spend at least half an hour every day browsing through legal blogs and news websites etc. to keep myself abreast with latest industry news and updates. Also, being a part of the industry, you end up having a lot of friends, peers and batch mates working in different sectors, law firms etc. and end up knowing important updates from each other, which is quite helpful. Being a lawyer, the nature of your work also demands a lot of reading for different assignments and you inadvertently end up knowing things.

     

    What were the biggest hurdles and challenges in the first few months? How did you deal with them?

    Once you have worked for a couple of years, the challenge is not so much in understanding your work and deliverables but in understanding how the organisation that you work for, functions. Therefore, just like in any other organisation, a substantial amount of time was spent in understanding the protocols at PwC in the first few months. This exercise is also important as things at work become easy and smooth after that.

     

    What is the procedure to apply for recruitment at PwC?

    You could visit the career section on the website, look out for the relevant vacancy and apply online by creating an account and filling in your details. If shortlisted, the Human Capital team of PwC will revert to you after screening your application.

     

    Is there any other tip you would like to give to our budding professionals?

    Once you have chosen law as your career, be certain of the line of practice that you would want to pursue after graduating (be it litigation, academia, law firm, in-house counsel, LPO or anything else). Internships and frequent interactions with your seniors and professors will help you identify your area of interest. Therefore, it is important to take internships seriously in law school and try and explore as much during the tenure.

    Once you have identified your area of interest (which you may in all probability by the end of fourth year in law school), you should then try and work towards it by streamlining your remaining internships. Also, every fresher entering the profession should avoid having preconceived notions and give it some time to get acclimatised to the work life. It is important to have an open mind to enhance learning and treat every work equally important, no matter how big or small. Reading regularly and keeping yourself abreast with latest amendments and change in law is extremely crucial for a lawyer and so inculcating the habit of reading in early days of your career will be useful. As learning is a continuous journey, it is important to take your profession seriously and work continuously towards increasing your knowledge base.

  • Rimali Batra, Associate, Regulatory and Policy team, Trilegal, on pursuing BCL from Oxford, life at law school and varied work experience

    Rimali Batra, Associate, Regulatory and Policy team, Trilegal, on pursuing BCL from Oxford, life at law school and varied work experience

    Rimali Batra graduated from ILS Law College, Pune in 2010. After graduation, she worked at ICICI Bank’s Corporate Banking and Litigation team in New Delhi for a year. Thereafter, she pursued a BCL degree at the University of Oxford. After completing BCL, she joined Jindal Global Law School as a Research Associate. She subsequently accepted a job offer from J Sagar Associate’s Regulatory and Policy team and after continuing there for a while she went on to join her present office at the Regulatory team of Trilegal.

    In this interview she talks about:

    • Reading BCL at Oxford and tips on scholarships
    • Being a Research Associate at JGLS
    • Working at JSA and moving over to Trilegal

     

    Most of readers are budding and enthusiastic lawyers, how would you like to introduce yourself to them?

    I was born and raised in Delhi. I did my schooling from Montfort Senior Secondary School located in Ashok Vihar, New Delhi. Thereafter I went to ILS Law College, Pune to do my graduation in Law. After ILS Law College, I worked with ICICI Bank’s Corporate Banking and Litigation team in New Delhi. A year and three months later, I went to University of Oxford to read law. After BCL, I joined Jindal Law School, Sonipat as a research associate and worked there for three semesters. During the second half of 2014, I joined J Sagar Associate’s Regulatory and Policy team and worked on matters concerning power (Electricity Act, 2003). I was with Mr. Amit Kapur’s team in JSA for a year and have now moved to Mr. Sitesh Mukherjee’s Regulatory team in Trilegal. I have been at Trilegal for five months now. That’s been my journey thus far.

     

    You have had many interesting career switches from starting out as a banking lawyer then being a Research Associate at JGLS to your current profile at Trilegal. What all do you consider before taking these decisions?

    One is of course bound to be surprised at the changing courses of my career paths but then it was all a part of the plan, which I hope the readers will see as this interview answers unfold. All decisions that I have made till date connect, and connect wonderfully.

    rimali-batra-2I am a curious individual and don’t shy from taking risks. I have always been experimental in nature and challenges attract me and hold me. Call it my weakness, call it my strength. I believe that I perform well when I multi-task (It’s like enjoying the main course with some side dishes). That is how it has been since school days. For instance, in school I did not just study hard and well, but also trained myself to be a good basketball player (played national and international tournaments), a praiseworthy debater (both at the inter-school level and state level), a leader (school head girl) and a decent quizzer (inter-school level). Similarly in College, I did not settle for just being among the top 10 rank holder for all five years in the Pune University (ILS was one among the 20 odd colleges affiliated to the Pune University), but also represented ILS at various national and international level moot competitions, elocutions and paper presentations. At Oxford too, I read the BCL alongside playing basketball for the University of Oxford. And now whenever I have time and I am not working, I am doing either of the following – pro-bono advisory on energy laws and medical law and ethics, reading books, stock trading / following the market, writing and publishing stories or on issues of law that interest me, teaching English to underprivileged kids at home on weekends, part-time teaching at law schools or travelling.

     

    Did you have lawyers in your family or in close proximity?

    A little about my family: There are no lawyers in my family (or in extended family for that matter). My father hailed from Sonipat and my mother came to India in my Nani’s womb from Pakistan. My father was a businessmen and my mother assisted him in his business. He was and is my role model. He had no basic formal education and left school in class VI to pursue his dream of setting up a business. My mother was a national level table-tennis player and a B.Com graduate from University of Delhi.

    My elder sister, who is a gold medallist, is a Human Resources manager with a renowned company in New Delhi and my younger brother, who is also a gold medallist in B.Com (H) from University of Delhi is running his own business and takes care of dad’s business. I think I inherited my mother’s sports skills and reading habits and my father’s experimental, risk bearing and helping nature. I believed that a little confusion and nervousness is always good but fear is destructive, and therefore I aim at balancing my fears and my weaknesses with my confidence and strengths, as I move forward. I also leave achievements behind and look at them as a thing of the past and aspire to achieve a little more as days go by. So, in a nut-shell, law and basketball are my passion and I am a learner and observer at heart.

     

    Why did you decide to be a lawyer? How was your law school experience at ILS, Pune?

    As far as my memory goes, I sealed the decision of being a lawyer in Class Xth – even before I decided whether to take commerce or science. My decision was based on an aptitude test that was conducted in school moral science class. Thereafter I started adding biographies of famous lawyers to my reading rack alongside the already placed biographies of basketball players. I also read a lot of John Grisham. That marked the beginning. In class XII, I joined LST for preparation. I did not fill any other forms (B.Com, Eco (H) etc) but gave entrance tests for N-Schools. At one point in time, when I did not get through Symbiosis, I almost lost hope for making it to any other N-School, but then when I made it NALSAR, I regained my strength. I also made it to ILS on merit and on sports quota. Now, the decision there was simple, but I got swayed by the India Today ranking and picked ILS over NALSAR, as the ranking placed ILS at number 1 in 2005.

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    ILS for me was a place of opportunities. Located in the heart of the city and walking distance from Symbiosis, ASCL, Ferguson College, FTII and Gokhale Institute of Political Science and Economics, it offered a vibrant student crowd and a bundle of opportunities. My learning was not limited to the classrooms of ILS. I participated in moots that enlarged my frame of learning, pursued diplomas in subjects that were not taught as a part of the academic curriculum and interned with NGO’s/human rights organisations in Pune. During college, I successfully completed diplomas in International Arbitration, Cyber Laws, International Business Laws, Securities Laws and Medical Law and Criminology. I was one of the speakers in the team that represented University of Pune at University of Oxford in the quarter-final rounds of the Oxford IPR Moot Competition, 2009. My first publication was on ‘domestic violence’ in the college journal (in 2007), followed by a piece on ‘separation of powers’ in the Ambedkar Law School journal (2009). During college, I also participated in cultural events like poetry writing and recitation, signing and painting. And of course I continued to play Basketball at the Deccan Gymkhana, since our college did not have a functional basketball court. I made some great friends at ILS. Overall, I believe I was able to paint my canvas with so many colours because I was in a college that gave me so much time and space to explore and go looking for opportunities, if they refuse to come to you.

     

    When people say “Law school”, they look no further than the National Law Universities. As a graduate of ILS, Pune have you faced any such bias? What would be your advice to students in ILS?

    I think the trends are changing a bit. Especially because of so many law colleges mushrooming across the country. ILS has a legacy of being one of the oldest institutions imparting legal knowledge. What ILS lacks is professional training. Meeting my counterparts from N-Schools, always encouraged me to imbibe in me the skills required to think, talk and approach life like a professional. Bias does exit but not all of us have to face it. ILS has a reputation for producing some good litigators however has not earned the same reputation in the corporate world, thereby making it difficult for kids in ILS to crack competitive corporate jobs. I recall an incident during my first job where a senior of my team, while praising my work, introduced me to be from NLS. On my prompting, he corrected himself and toned up his praises even more (considering he was surprised!). I would advise students from ILS to do additional courses and good internships because only studying law at ILS and getting a degree is not going to be enough.

    My advice to students of ILS would be two-fold

    (a) focus on academics in order to score well. Do not consider classroom teaching the end all of academics, that’s just the starting point; and

    (b) Make the most of the time at hand. Involve yourself in activities/course or additional degree’s that interest you. ILS makes space and time for you to incorporate that in your schedule. Most importantly, do both with the sole objective of learning.

    Students can consider requesting administration to take notice of events, moots and competitions that interest them and be rest assured the college will do its part. Student may also invite luminaries in the legal fraternity for lectures and seminars. Basically, what a student in ILS needs is the ‘instinct to initiate’ and ‘go towards opportunities’.

     

    Please describe the internships that you did in college.

    For internships, I always chose New Delhi, because this is where home was and logistics were easy to manage. My first internship was in the District Courts of Delhi where I read and researched on matters of criminal law and property related disputes. Thereafter, I did my second internship in Delhi High Court where I worked on matters on the original as well as the appellate side on various subjects. In my third year I did internships with Senior Advocates of Supreme Court. I then did an internship with litigation teams of two law firms and my final internship was with the Law Commission of India where I wrote a thesis (which retired into a book) on Constitutional validity of Medical Termination in India. I planned my internships and explored possible avenues for a lawyer in order to better understand my calling. By the end of five years, I was sure of being a litigator (at the least) not sure of the subject area that interests me.

     

    You worked as a Legal Manager at ICICI Bank. How does a typical day at ICICI work out? What were your main tasks and what responsibility did you undertake?

    ICICI Bank was my first employer. I was placed through college. I was based out of the Delhi office (I asked for Delhi as my location during my interview). I worked in no specific vertical, but was primarily doing litigation for/against the Bank. Anything and everything was a part of my profile. On a day I would be doing ECB lending, security creations and on another I would be researching and preparing written submissions for matters pending in the consumer forum or the Supreme Court and on yet another day I would be doing retail banking advisory. Having such a profile made it interesting to work in ICICI. I worked there for a year and a half, before I decided to do a masters.

     

    How did your appointment take place at ICICI Bank? What kinds of questions were asked at your interview for ICICI bank?

    ICICI follows a three step procedure, shortlisting on the basis of CV’s, followed by a Group Discussion and finally a personal interview. The Group Discussion revolves around a hypothetical problem relating to law of contracts and consumer protection. The personal interview is primarily based on the resume and a few HR based questions.

     

    Please tell us about your decision to do an LL.M and how you went about choosing the program and university.

    I decided to pursue my masters from Oxford ever since I visited the University in 2009 for an IPR Moot Competition. On my return, I pursued it like a dream. The advantages of doing a BCL are:

    (a) it offers the students to choose a suitable combination of subjects, based on their preferences as opposed to a custom-made LLM course. So, even though I read only four subjects as part of the BCL but at the same time the rigorous workload and timelines gave me the advantage of specialising in four subjects at one time,

    (b) Oxford targets on strengthening reading, breaking down complex material and articulating the same in form of legal writings/answers/tutorials. They say, don’t study BCL, you read for BCL.

     

    What do you think clicked in your favour during the selection process for Oxford? What are the scholarships you had applied for?

    I can’t answer this question with certainty. It has to be a combination of my academic performance in ILS, my statement of purpose and the write-up. Also, the fact that I assured my willingness to attend the course and pay for it, in case I did not get scholarships from Oxford, could have boosted my application. However, I did say that I will not attend if I had no scholarships at all. Other than that, achievements mentioned on my CV (like basketball, moots, diplomas etc.), my statement of purpose and my write-up may have added a little value.

     

    How do you think a law student can build up his profile to get through to top-notch universities like Oxford?

    It’s important to have a strong academic score. A rank in the law school adds value to the application. Apart from that, a student should be able to demonstrate inclination for engaging in theoretical and policy aspects of law. It is also advisable for students to have publications on their side. I remember interacting with the Dean of the University and inter alia, discussing the approach adopted by the University in considering applications from Indian law students. He talked about the law college’s ranking also being a relevant factor, apart from the academic achievements of the student.

     

    What was your area of study during your masters at Oxford? How was the academic pressure like and did you find time to engage yourself in other activities?

    I read Principles of Financial Regulations, Corporate Laws, Medical Law and Ethics and Philosophical Foundations of Common Law. The courses were rigorous and the readings ranged from being easy to intense and complex. However, I made time to be a part of the Oxford University Girl Basketball team after being shortlisted at the trials conducted at the beginning of the course. I played 4 or 5 inter-university matches and also participated in the legendry ‘Varsity Tournament’ played between Oxford and Cambridge every year.

     

    Please tell us about the scholarships you applied to and the procedure for each.

    I applied for all possible scholarships I stumbled upon during my research. I started looking for scholarships before making my application. I followed this website -governmentofindiascholarship.com. I specifically applied for Rhodes, Common Wealth Scholarship, KC Mahindra Trust, Jain Trust, Ox-Cam among others. I was awarded the KC Mahindra Trust Scholarship and the Ox-Cam Scholarships. The application procedure is a little detailed as the students need to prepare independent SOP for each and demonstrate availability of the balance funds (in case where the scholarship does not cover for everything).

    The interview rounds for KC Mahindra and Ox-Cam is fairly simple and questions are primarily targeted at (a) ‘Why oxford?’ and (b) ‘What after masters?’

    Additionally, I would suggest students to ask their employers or seniors they have worked with for financial assistance as some firms, seniors or employers are willing to offer funds with or without a promise from the student to come back and work with the said employer or senior.

     

    Please describe your experience at Oxford. What were the classes and professors like?

    Oxford was a scintillating experience for me. Especially, reading philosophy at Oxford gave me a deeper understanding of law, legal principles and concepts. Oxford has seminars (classroom teaching) which requires students to read before walking in. For my corporate law class I joined a group that was made by students themselves to discuss seminar questions before the seminar and help prepare better for exams.

    At Oxford I was exposed to a system that takes its readings very seriously. As a Masters student, we were required to not just read hundreds of pages every week, but, to also reflect on them during our seminars. I enjoyed this practice very much and it has allowed me to hone my writing skills in the process. A typical reading list will have at least 8-10 important readings (combination of articles, case laws and policy paper series from different jurisdictions, but primarily UK and US). Professors, at best, assist as students deliberate and discuss a topic. One more thing which I found particularly interesting was the presence of an economics, finance and corporate law professor at the same time during seminars for one of my courses, namely, principles of financial regulation.

    The tutorial system is quite unique. There are 4 tutorials for each subject and are spread over three semesters followed by a three hours written exam at the end of the course. I found the tutorials challenging but refreshing as they helped me assess my performance and understanding of the subject alongside attending seminars. They also helped me hone my skills of articulating my thoughts and understanding of the subject.

     

    You switched to a pure research based career after coming from Oxford. How did this change take place? How did you get to associate yourself with Jindal Global Law School?

    Academics is very close to my heart and still is. For as long as I can remember, teaching and educating has always fascinated me. When at Oxford, I heard about Jindal Law School and its dean, Dr. (Mr.) C. Raj Kumar who happens to be an alumnus of Oxford. I was given an opportunity to work as a Research Associate and lecture two courses ‘Property Laws’ and ‘Corporate Laws’. Honestly, one may see it as a switch in careers, but for me, academics fits in very well for an aspiring lawyer, especially after a masters. I also felt a dire need to re-apply and re-read my subjects, from the Indian law perspective – after I finished my masters.

    Though I chose to be a litigator, I haven’t lost touch with teaching and academics (and hopefully never will). I have conducted seminars and lectured at various law schools in India, ever since I left Jindal. I am a visiting faculty with Symbiosis Law School, Noida and often visit ILS Law College for conducting week long courses, as and when time permits.

     

    You had worked with Jyoti Sagar Associates and you are now working with Trilegal. Why this switch?

    After two very fruitful and enriching years at Jindal Law School, I decide to do join regulatory litigation. I was with JSA for a year and have been with Trilegal for 5 months now and having been working on laws in the energy sector, especially the power sector. With not much precedent in the sector, the practice is demanding and engaging.

     

    How is being a research associate or a legal manager at bank different from working at a top – notch law firm? Does the work load increase, how have you managed this transformation?

    When I was in ICICI, I assisted in consumer dispute litigations for/against the bank on subjects involving ‘corporate laws’, ‘banking laws and regulations’. When at Oxford I read ‘corporate law’ and ‘financial regulations’. When at Jindal, I taught ‘corporate laws and financial regulations’. When at JSA, I put together the knowledge and experience acquired from ‘corporate laws’, ‘regulations’ and ‘litigation’; and worked hard in acquiring sector specific knowledge. Electricity/Power sector is a super-niche sector and I find it thrilling and challenging. My work at JSA was very extensive and intense. At Trilegal, I continue working on matters in the power sector with the same intensity and I enjoy it immensely.

     

    How has the journey been so far? What are your long term goals?

    For me my journey that has been the best part. The people I met, places I visited, life experiences I picked on the way, all add to me being who I am today. For today and tomorrow, I am a litigator, learner and an observer and I aspire to be perfect at what I do.

     

    Lastly, what would be your message to a law student who wants to excel in the legal profession?

    Let me quote Abraham Lincoln’s message “If you are resolutely determined to make a lawyer of yourself, the thing is more than half done already.” I echo.

    When in law school, plan a little about your future. Immerse yourself in travel, cultural exchange, sports, parties and meaningful conversations, as much as possible. Don’t let your degree define your career limits. Don’t forget to explore and experiment. Take risks sometime, it adds a bitter-sweet flavour to your becoming a lawyer. If you do, then accept your failures as much as your cherish your victories.

    And most importantly, keep your imagination alive.

  • J. Sai Deepak, Associate Partner, Saikrishna & Associates, on studying Law after Engineering, experience in IPR, and taking landmark cases to success

    J. Sai Deepak, Associate Partner, Saikrishna & Associates, on studying Law after Engineering, experience in IPR, and taking landmark cases to success

    J. Sai Deepak graduated from Anna University with Bachelors in Mechanical Engineering, after which he went on to pursue LL.B from IIT Kharagpur. After completion of law he joined Saikrishna & Associates as an Associate in 2009, where presently he has been promoted to an Associate Partner. He won the 2008 Legal Writing Competition of the International Association for the Advancement of Teaching and Research in Intellectual Property (ATRIP) as a student and writes for his blog “The Demanding Mistress”. He has also authored papers in various exemplary journals.

    As a litigator at Saikrishna & Associates he led the team to many successes including the reading down of S.79(3)(b) of the Information Technology Act and the Intermediary Rules; representing Greenpeace India successfully in Tata Sons v. Greenpeace International & Anr.

    In this interview we talk about:

    • Choosing law after completing engineering at Anna University.
    • Work profile at Saikrishna & Associates
    • Winning the 2008 Legal Writing Competition of International Association for Advancement of Teaching and Research in Intellectual Property (ATRIP)
    • Leading the team which represented the Internet and Mobile Association of India before the Supreme Court.
    • Representing Indian mobile brands such as Micromax and Intex in the suits for patent infringement filed by Ericsson

     

    Given that most of our readers belong to the legal fraternity, how would you introduce yourself to them?

    I am a first generation lawyer, an engineer-turned-general litigator with core competence in Intellectual Property Law and allied areas.

     

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    Having graduated with a Bachelors in Mechanical Engineering, what motivated you to switch streams and pursue law at IIT Kharagpur?

    My dream was to pursue a Masters in Aeronautical Engineering after under-graduation, but in the penultimate semester of engineering (2005), I was in IIT Kharagpur to present a paper in a technical symposium organized by its Industrial Engineering department. It was in the inaugural speech by the then Director of IIT Kgp, Shri Shishir K. Dube, that I first heard of the new LL.B. programme which was set to commence the following year, in 2006, in IIT Kgp’s Law School known as the Rajiv Gandhi School of Intellectual Property Law. I read up more on law and realized that although I took up engineering by choice, my future lay outside of it in a profession which involved understanding and dealing with people. This was perhaps because I have always had a deep interest in history, current affairs, politics and policy and I wanted to contribute in some tangible way to at least one of these areas.

    These interests, coupled with my passion for debating and public speaking, made law seem like the logical choice. The choice did not seem that logical to quite a few well-wishers. In fact, the Head of the Mechanical engineering department of my college was utterly shocked and urged me to reconsider my decision. But by then the legal bug had bitten and today I am happy I took the headlong plunge into law. As for the choice of Law School, most engineers have a soft corner for the IIT brand and this may have sub-consciously influenced my decision to study at IIT Kgp, despite the fact that the LL.B. programme was nascent.

     

    How did you get through to the LL.B programme of IIT Kharagpur?

    The LL.B. programme at IIT Kgp is limited to graduates with a first degree in science or technology or medicine. For the first batch in 2006, a Statement of Purpose had to be sent along with the application form for the entrance exam, then known as the National Aptitude Test. The Test had sections on quantitative aptitude, verbal aptitude, GK and a few fundamental questions related to the law. This was followed by a Personal Interview and candidates were selected based on cumulative scores. This being the first entrance exam for a newly established Law School, I am not sure the number of applicants was remotely comparable to other post-graduate entrances in India like GATE and CAT. I got through the entrance and the other rounds based on my preparation for engineering placements. The current process of admission to the Law School, I believe, is different.

     

    Our readers would like to know briefly about your blogpost which made you popular in the legal fraternity. Also, what made you take up blogging as a law student?

    (Sai frequently writes on his blog “The Demanding Mistress”. As a law student, his blogpost on the Bajaj-TVS patent dispute was quoted and was relied upon by a Division Bench of the Madras High Court to reverse the findings of the Single Judge.)

    Blogging happened to me in a very serendipitous way and largely because of dearth of opportunities to moot. Since we were students of the first batch of a fledgling Law School, there wasn’t a mooting culture back then and it was a challenge to kick-start one given the teething troubles anynew Law School typically faces. So three of us, Nikhil Ranjan, Ashwani Balayan and I,thought it would help to organize a moot court competition (“Verdict”) in our second year in our Law School (2008) and learn from the participants by observing them moot. In the process of inviting people to judge the moot, I was directed by Yogesh Pai (now a Professor at NLU,Delhi) to SpicyIP. I came across a few posts on the Bajaj-TVS patent dispute. However, no techno-legal analysis had been undertaken in those posts.Being a mechanical engineer with a tentative understanding of the law, I volunteered to write my first post on SpicyIP analysing the issues in dispute, keeping both technical and legal jargon to the minimum.In the process, I realized that blogging, and writing in general helped me unclutter the thoughts in my head and helped me articulate my views with greater clarity. Also, compared to mooting which requires a fair amount of resources on a regular basis which I couldn’t have afforded, all that blogging needed was access to the internet and the will to read up and write.Importantly, I felt blogging gave me access to a much wider audience. All these got me hooked to it.

    After my graduation from Law School when I was back home preparing to leave for Delhi to join the profession, I got a call from a friend of my mine from Law School, Arindam Roy Chowdhury, who congratulated me for being cited in a decision by the Madras High Court, which I dismissed as a prank. When I opened my email account later in the day, it was flooded with congratulatory mails and messages. It turned out that my maiden blogpost had indeed been relied upon to vacate the interim injunction granted against TVS Motors. I was told (although this hasn’t been verified) that this was one of the few instances where a law student’s work had been relied upon by a Court.

    In December 2010, I founded my own blog “The Demanding Mistress” where I continue to write on innovation, IP Laws, Competition Law and policy.

     

    What role do publications play in the life of a lawyer? What, in your view, are the few most important skills that law students should strive to acquire in order to write papers/articles effectively?

    (As a law student, Sai won the 2008 Legal Writing Competition of the International Association for the Advancement of Teaching and Research in Intellectual Property (ATRIP). He has also authored various papers in many reputed journals such as Max Planck Institute’s International Review of Intellectual Property Law and Competition law.)

    I think clear writing is a skill that every lawyer is expected to possess and must possess. Writing really tests the degree to which one has internalized a subject and its spirit, because the clarity with which you write is reflective of your grasp of the subject. Publications in peer-reviewed journals convey the message to prospective employers and clients that you are confident of articulating your views and subjecting them to the scrutiny of a better-informed audience. It also prepares you for legal drafting when you start practicing.

    I strongly believe voracious and rigorous reading is imperative for effective writing. If you write more than you read, your writing will suffer from paucity of depth and eventually you are bound to run out of topics to write on.Also, a lawyer must know how to cater to different kinds of audiences. After all, writing for a newspaper on a legal issue is not the same as writing on a specialist blog. Importantly, when a lawyer reads or writes, his/her individual personality and training as a lawyer must come to the fore.

     

    Soon after graduation, you joined Saikrishna & Associates in 2009 and were made Associate Partner recently. How did you secure your appointment?

    My entry into the Firm was not through campus placements. In fact, I sat out of the campus placements because at that time, no litigation firm approached the Law School for recruitment. Fortunately, two things happened- first, through a combination of circumstances in which the founder of SpicyIP, Shamnad Basheer, had a role to play, I was working on the Firm’s first two patent matters in my final year in Law School. So Mr. Saikrishna Rajagopal had an opportunity to assess the quality of my work and was kind enough to offer a position in the Firm’s litigation team. Second, around the time I graduated, Mr. Gopal Subramanium, who was the Solicitor General then, too had offered a position in his Chambers. Since I wanted to gain experience in trial practice and was already familiar with Mr. Saikrishna’s style of functioning, I accepted Mr. Saikrishna’s offer.

     

    For a law student, it’s very difficult to think of becoming an Associate Partner under six years of joining the profession. What would you say helped you gain recognition?

    I’d largely credit my learning to the opportunities Mr. Saikrishna has been large-hearted enough to share. He believes in teaching through empowerment, which is at the heart of the Firm’s culture. Although this means greater responsibility in the initial years, it helps you understand the ropes of the profession faster. Plus, what I am particularly thankful for is the freedom I have, to write on any issue I wish to, so long as there is no conflict of interest. This freedom matters a lot to me personally and professionally, and I am aware of the fact that this is hard to find in a law firm set up.

    I would be remiss if I did not mention how fortunate I am to have had brilliant colleagues right from my first year who enjoy discussions on the law. No question or issue is dismissed as being “too academic” or trivial. It’s a very vibrant atmosphere which is what attracts interns and makes them want to be part of the Firm. Also, one of the key strengths of the Firm is the camaraderie shared by its members, which makes one look forward to go to the Court or office each day. To me, each of these factors affects individual success when you work in a law firm.

     

    What does an Associate Partner at a Law Firm like Saikrishna and Associates do? What falls within the scope of your responsibility? Tell us about a typical work day.

    At least 3-4 days in a week, I am in the High Court for the better part of the day when the litigation season is on. After I am done with my matters for the day, I usually stay back in the Chamber to prepare for the next day or to send out opinions to Clients or to meet them. The advantage of the Firm’s flexible work hours is that one’s time is productively spent in attending to work regardless of where one is, instead of wasting it in commutation. Apart from handling matters that have been assigned to me, I contribute my mite to diversifying the litigation practice of the Firm by taking up matters which may have nothing to do with IP at all. For instance, I have a personal interest in taking up criminal matters, particularly those that relate to economic offenses, before CBI Special Courts. Fortunately for me, the Firm encourages such initiatives and my efforts on this front have thus far been reasonably successful.

     

    You have a few landmark judgments to your credit, two of which are Tata Sons v. Greenpeace and Basmati Geographical Indication case. Kindly elaborate in brief on these two cases for the benefit of our readers.

    We were engaged by Greenpeace India to represent it in Tata Sons v. Greenpeace International & Anr. in 2010, which was my second year of practice. The Suit revolves around Greenpeace India’s use of the Tata trademark in its Pacman-styled game Tata v. Turtles as part of its awareness campaign on the dangers posed by the Dhamra Port in Odisha to the nesting grounds of Olive Ridley turtles. Tata Sons alleged infringement of its trademark and defamation. The case throws up fascinating issues relating to interplay between free speech and IP rights, apart from an examination of the defense of fair comment under Indian law to an allegation of defamation. In January 2011, Justice Ravindra Bhat dismissed Tata Sons’ prayer for interim injunction and upheld the defense of fair comment on the issue of defamation and Greenpeace India’s right to use the Tata trademark in exercise of its free speech. Subject to correction, I think this decision was the first of its kind in an IP context in India and has been hailed as a landmark in several advanced IP jurisdictions. The matter is set to be taken up for final arguments in the near future.

    The Basmati Geographical Indication case relates to oppositions filed by the State of Madhya Pradesh and private entities from MP to the application for GI on Basmati filed by Agricultural and Processed Food Products Export Development Authority (APEDA). The oppositions were based on non-inclusion of the State of Madhya Pradesh as part of Basmati-cultivating regions in India. On December 31, 2013, the GI Registry upheld the contention of the opponents and directed the inclusion of the State of Madhya Pradesh in the GI Application on grounds that APEDA’s basis for identification of Basmati cultivating areas in India was flawed and not rooted in history and facts. The decision has been appealed against by APEDA before the Intellectual Property Appellate Board (IPAB), which is pending adjudication.

     

    You are also representing Indian mobile brands such as Micromax and Intex in the suits for patent infringement filed by Ericsson. Could you give our readers a broad overview of the suits?

    Broadly the suits relate to Ericsson’s allegation of infringement of what it claims are “Standard Essential Patents” relating to the GSM standards used in mobile telecommunication. The validity of the patents asserted and the claim of essentiality have been challenged by the defendants. Critically, the conduct of the patentee has come under scrutiny by the Competition Commission of India for prima facie abuse of dominance under Section 4 of the Competition Act, 2002. The suits and the proceeding before the CCI are sub-judice. These suits raise issues which Indian Courts and the CCI have never had the occasion to deal with in the past. In the process of handling these matters, we have discovered several facets of IP and anti-trust law and their relationship. Personally, the learning has been great.

     

    Section 79(3)(b) of the IT Act has been read down by the Court in the Shreya Singhal decision. Could you share with our readers the significance of the decision for internet companies?

    (Sai led the team which represented the Internet and Mobile Association of India before the Supreme Court in the constitutional challenge to the intermediary liability regime under Section 79(3)(b) of the Information Technology Act and the Intermediary Rules. Mr. Saikrishna Rajagopal was the counsel for the petitioners.)

    Ours was the only petition which challenged the constitutional vires of Section 79(3)(b) of the IT Act. Under the original provision prior to it being read down by the Hon’ble Supreme Court, an intermediary was expected to take down content based on “actual knowledge” received from private parties of the unlawfulness of the content hosted by it. Given the vague nature of the term “actual knowledge” and the onerous obligation cast on intermediaries by the use of the term, the Apex Court read this down to mean actual knowledge of a Court order which directed take down of the content. This ensures that intermediaries do not have to act like Courts and adjudicate on the legality of content hosted on their sites.

    The second limb of the challenge was to the ability of the Government to seek take down of content which was used for commission of an “unlawful act”. The term “unlawful act” went beyond the limitations imposed by Article 19(2) of the Constitution on the Government’s power to curb free speech and expression. Consequently, the scope of “unlawful act” in the context of free speech was limited to categories of prohibitions spelt out in Article 19(2).

    The reading down of Section 79(3)(b)is significant owing to the integral nature of intermediaries to the internet ecosystem and the role they place as disseminators of free speech and expression of internet users. Importantly, certainty in the application of the law is important for any business, and the business of intermediaries is no exception to this requirement.

     

    How does it feel to have landmark judgments to your credit? Do you think achievements like this can change one’s recognition drastically?

    It certainly feels good to have been part of such decisions. I’d like to clarify that each of these decisions is the consequence of the collective effort of the team.

    Yes, decisions such as these help increase one’s credibility as a litigator and make it relatively easier to be considered for matters involving higher stakes. That said, regardless of the outcome, what truly helps improve one’s credibility and visibility is the quality of preparation and execution in the Court since the result in beyond your control.

     

    You have been invited by several forums in India and abroad to present your views on IP developments in India. Please share your experience in speaking on various platforms.

    Based on my experience, I think, similar to writing, the nature of the audience must be taken into account when you address a forum. I have also realized that to connect effectively with a non-legal audience, it is important to keep the legalese at a minimum and highlight the broad policy implications of a legal issue. Also, as litigators, it helps to listen to multiple viewpoints from members of the industry, academics and policy analysts because these may come handy in lucidly putting forth a complex issue before the Court.

     

    Would you say you have “specialized” in IP law? What made you interested in the same? How do you say one can gain expertise in IP Law? What does it take to be a good IP lawyer?

    I’d never say that I have “specialized” in IP Law, which is why I introduced myself as an engineer-turned-general litigator with core competence in Intellectual Property Law and allied areas. For me, IP law is just another branch of commercial law with its own peculiarities like any other area of the law. The path to attain proficiency in IP law is similar to any other branch of law, which is to read as widely and deeply as possible, and to develop the ability to apply the law to the factual matrix of a given case. Critically, for anyone to acquire expertise in commercial litigation, strong foundations in property jurisprudence and common law are a must, along with command over procedural law.

     

    How different has the three-year program been when it comes to internships? How are internships helpful for a law student?

    Since ours was a three year program, there weren’t as many opportunities to intern as in a five year integrated program. Plus, I never interned in a law firm because I had very little understanding of the concept of a firm and the option didn’t sound great to me. However, I did make it a point to acquire diverse experiences by first interning at IIM Ahmedabad and National innovation Foundation, followed by GE’s John F. Welch Technology Centre in Bangalore. These internships helped me understand the theoretical and practical aspects of innovation. I do believe internships, if rightly chosen, help a student understand her/his own strengths, weaknesses and career aspirations.

     

    What are the qualities which Saikrishna & Associates look for in a typical CV? What do you feel makes an intern stand out and is very important for him/her to do to have a chance of getting a call back or even a PPO?

    At Saikrishna & Associates, the pedigree of the Law School does not matter, nor do the achievements claimed in a CV. What matters to us are initiative, conceptual clarity, the ability to write/draft crisply and the ability to marshal arguments in support of a proposition through research and logic. If a student performs well on at least some of these counts, subject to vacancy, we offer a position in the Firm. Most of our litigators have come through internships and not campus placements.

     

    What would be your advice to students interested in litigation?

    For anyone who wishes to take up litigation, I’d say patience and hard work are equally important because unlike transactional practice, litigation takes time to reward. But when it does, the thrill is just incomparable. In a nutshell, treat litigation as a marathon run and not a 100-metre dash. Also, it would help to be comfortable with general areas of practice and be good at atleast one area of practice, which is not the same as restricting oneself to a specialist area.

     

  • Anirudh Rao, Legal Counsel, Infosys London, on LL.M from GWU and job at the World Bank

    Anirudh Rao, Legal Counsel, Infosys London, on LL.M from GWU and job at the World Bank

    Anirudh Rao is a London-based Legal Counsel for Infosys Limited. He graduated from University Law College, Bangalore in 2009. Thereafter he pursued an LL.M from The George Washington University Law School, Washington, DC. He joined the World Bank Group as an Associate before shifting to his current job. In this interview he talks about:

    • LL.M from George Washington University
    • Tips on SoP, scholarships, interviews with foreign law firms/companies
    • Working at World Bank Group and Infosys, London

     

    Our readers are mostly lawyers and law students, how would you introduce yourself?

    I am Anirudh Rao, a London based Legal Counsel for Infosys Limited. Prior to joining Infosys, I worked for the World Bank Group as an Associate in Washington, DC. I graduated from The George Washington University Law School, Washington, DC in 2010 and University Law College, Bangalore University in 2009.

     

    What motivated you to gravitate towards law, as a discipline and a career?

    I was keen on doing something that involved the right mix of problem-solving, analysis and creative thinking. Although it did flutter the dovecotes, the one thing I knew for sure was that I did not want to touch math with a bargepole! Having been driven towards humanities from my high school years, pursuing a degree in law therefore seemed to be a natural progression as a career choice for me.

     

    Please tell us about your time at University Law College. What experiences during these five years would you think particularly helped you shape as a law professional?

    I attended University Law College (ULC) from 2004 to 2009. One of the key advantages I felt about attending ULC was that it allowed me adequate time to participate in moot court competitions, contribute to law journals and gain practical knowledge through internships. At the end of each semester during the course of my degree I interned at both law firms and companies, and during the year I was able to leverage my research skills to write papers that eventually got published in both print and online law journals. It was these experiences that helped bring a lot of perspective in to what I wanted to do as well as shape my career as a lawyer.

     

    What was the decisive factor that prompted you to choose George Washington University Law School from the plethora of options available? Did you always have higher studies in your mind? If not, what motivated you to go in for the same?

    I always wanted to be able to savour the experience of being an integral part of a multi-cultural, ethnic and linguistic class of creative and persevering minds from around the world sharing more than just the need for scholarly advancement.

    Washington, DC being the seat of power of the US government and major international organisations is also a cosmopolitan center for international commerce and business. I felt being in DC and attending GWU located in the heart of DC would put me at a distinct advantage to expand my professional network. I was also awarded the Thomas Buergenthal Scholarship on the basis of academic merit which covered my tuition for a semester.

     

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    Would you suggest having a brief work experience before applying for LL.M.?

    I had no work experience when I went to pursue an LL.M. Personally, I have no regrets looking back at my decision because it did not impede my career progression. However, I also recognise that having some work experience certainly helps in building perspective on taking a decision regarding the preferred area of study and shaping one’s career path.

     

    How did you structure your SoP? Please share some tips for a successful application. What according to you is a good profile for securing scholarships & funding?

    I don’t think I was alone in writing the first draft of my SoP and feeling like I got it wrong. A law school receives hundreds of applications and the evaluators are tasked with the arduous responsibility of reading all of them. What one needs to avoid is stating the obvious, being extraneous or generally lacklustre. A strong opening paragraph will keep the evaluator’s interest to read the rest of the SoP with a positive mindset.

    With regards to scholarships and funding, I feel that having the right mix of consistent academic performance with moot court achievements, publications and internship experience will be able to propel applications further. Highly ranked universities look for more of well rounded CVs; highlighting any outstanding sporting achievements, social volunteering and/or any other stellar achievements goes a long way in securing coveted seats and hopefully scholarships to go with it.

     

    Please tell us about your time at GWU. Was it difficult for you to adjust to a US based education system? What differences did you find in the educations system of India and US?

    GWU Law School was a fantastic experience. The faculty ranged from a former judge in the International Court of Justice, a former Register of Copyrights to subject matter experts who have testified before the US Congress. My campus life ranged from attending socials, intramural and intercollegiate sports, live music concerts and town hall meetings. My fellow students were from 30+ different countries around the globe; people ranging from former judges to a South Korean guard who previously manned the De-Militarized Zone between the two Koreas. It was a perfect opportunity to make lasting friendships in the legal fraternity across the globe.

    The LL.M program at GW is designed to allow international students to settle into the US learning system through specific coursework and breakout sessions; as such, it was not difficult to adapt to the changed circumstances. I was also fortunate to have great professor-mentors.

    Education systems in India and US are as different as chalk and cheese. As one would expect, classes were interactive rather than lecture based which meant one would have to go prepared to class. The culmination of the course at the end of the semester did not always end up in taking a routine exam to regurgitate what one had memorised through the past months. We had a repertoire of assessments including presentations, research paper submissions and theses. Students were also graded on the quality of interactions in class through the semester.

     

    How did your induction into the World Bank Group as an Associate take place? Were there any interviews or selection processes?

    The World Bank is located next to GWU Law School in Washington, DC. In fact, I took classes where I would look out the window and dream about crossing the street and working there after graduating! The US economy hadn’t fully recovered from the recession in 2010, jobs were few and far between; being based in DC certainly played a major role in securing a job at the World Bank. I would show up at World Bank hosted events and spent considerable time and effort networking with officials and engaging in conversation about their work while expressing my willingness to collaborate with them in their projects.

    Initially I was offered a short term contract. I continued to network which eventually led me to the Head of Operations and Business Strategy at the Global Environment Facility (GEF) who requested me to apply for an advertised posting through the World Bank’s job portal. Few weeks later I was called for a formal interview that was lead by a panel of four. I was asked questions about my background, competencies and how I would be a fit to the role. I came out feeling positive about my answers, a few days later, I got an email from then offering me a full-time staff position. My time there was exceptional, one experience that stands out for me was a project mission to Liberia and travelling across the country to pristine Lake Piso along the border with Sierra Leone to oversee a land degradation project.

     

    Currently you work as a Legal Counsel at Infosys, London, UK. Which events led to your induction into Infosys, London? How did your appointment take place?

    I was introduced to the then General Counsel of Infosys, through a friend, whom I later met at a World Bank hosted event in Washington, DC. I was looking to transition to the private sector and we discussed briefly about my interest in a contracts and commercial transactional role that Infosys was looking to fill. I wanted to have the benefit of a multi-jurisdictional profile and felt that crossing the Atlantic over to London would exemplify a vibrant work experience. After a round of interviews in Bangalore and working there for a year, London has been home to me and I am thoroughly enjoying it.

     

    What does your current work profile at Infosys consists of? What is a typical workday like? Are there new challenges everyday or has work settled into a predictable pattern?

    My profile is that of a commercial transactions counsel with a responsibility to lead negotiations, draft and review contracts for the provision of IT services and deliverables. I work with a vast array of customers both in the UK and in continental Europe across industries including but not limited to finance, retail, energy and utilities and manufacturing.

    A typical work day includes liaising with internal teams, negotiations with clients and assisting the business with both contracts and compliance related legal support.

    Everyday brings with it a new set of challenges and that is the way it should be to keep oneself intellectually stimulated.

     

    Tell us a bit about work culture in UK. Would you say that there exists a difference in the working environment of UK and USA?

    Both the UK and the US in general are very accepting and cosmopolitan societies to expatriates. I felt that differences between the UK and US’s working culture revolves around communication styles, sense of humour and emotional expressiveness. Especially while working in a client facing role as a lawyer where one gets the opportunity to work with people across cultures, I think it is critical to pay attention to one’s surroundings and take ample time to reflect on other people’s behaviour as well as one’s own.

     

    Can you give us advice on applications and interviews, especially with foreign law firms/companies?

    When applying to foreign companies and organisations, students are competing against local graduates who by no means are in short supply both in terms of quantity and talent. It is especially crucial to stand out and exceed expectations. The humble resume is expected to tell a student’s story in one or two pages and may be able to open the first door. One can benefit from getting their resumes peer reviewed for substance and consistency. Interviews can be daunting, however, one must manifest hunger, drive and confidence to convince why they are the right fit for the job.

     

    Any plans to come back to India?

    No fixed plans yet. There is an excitement in playing it by the ear. But who knows what the future holds!

     

    Aside from work, we understand that you are a running enthusiast, can you tell us more?

    Running gives me a nonpareil high and is also a stress buster. I started running long distance as a student and haven’t looked back since. I run both for pleasure and competitively. The two personal triumphs that stand out for me are the Auroville Half Marathon in Pondicherry in 2014 where I finished in the top 10% with about 500 runners competing and the Coorg Escapade half marathon also in 2014 where the relay team that I led finished third overall. The former was a trail run in the wilderness starting before sunrise in low visibility and the latter was a challenging high gradient uphill trail run in a tea estate setting with twists and turns across waterfalls, streams and green pastures.

     

    What are the three activities on a scale of priority, you would recommend?

    It is important for students to carve out an individualistic identity. At the same time, one should not forget to enjoy one’s time as a student. Personally, I benefited greatly from the following activities:

    1. internships
    2. law review publications and
    3. moot courts.

     

    Lastly, what would be your parting message for our readers?

    In the words of Muhammad Ali “He who is not courageous enough to take risks will accomplish nothing in life”. Getting cocooned in a comfort zone is always easy but getting off the beaten track and persevering will always pay off, sooner or later.

  • Aditya Chatterjee, Associate, Keystone Partners, on litigation, Jessup and managing extra-curriculars at law school

    Aditya Chatterjee, Associate, Keystone Partners, on litigation, Jessup and managing extra-curriculars at law school

    Aditya Chatterjee graduated from Gujarat National Law University, Gandhinagar. His aspirations to become a litigator led to his internships with Mr. Nikhil Nayyar, Advocate-on-record, Supreme Court and at Nayak & Srikumar (now Keystone Partners). He is also the Founder Editor of “The Colloquium”, an online views journal.

    His mooting achievements include the Best Memorial Award at the India Rounds of the 53rd Philip C. Jessup International Moot Court Competition where he was also adjudged Fourth Best Advocate. He is currently working at Keystone Partners. In this interview he talks about:

    • Law school experience at GNLU
    • Pursuing litigation as a career
    • Founding “The Colloquium”

     

    What motivated you to pursue law as a career?

    Atticus Finch from To Kill A Mockingbird 🙂 (Seriously!)

     

    Tell us a bit about your time at GNLU.

    Five years in law school have, without doubt, been my best days so far. I learnt a lot from what was taught in class and even more from just being in law school (read: hostel). I was not the exam-driven studious kind and was nowhere close to being among the toppers in class; all the same I quite liked studying and went about it in my own way. I was more involved in say organising a screening of 12 Angry Men than I was in scoring well in the evidence law paper. The approach adopted with most courses in law school certainly exposed the inter-disciplinary nature of the study of law to me. I did not like courses where we only stuck to text book material. I am grateful to some of the professors at GNLU for allowing me the freedom to explore subjects just the way I wanted to. I think somewhere this freedom has contributed to my being able to decide on litigation as my career choice early on in law school.

    And academics apart…

    In college I spent a great deal of my time in running GNLU’s cultural committee and starting the film club and photography club. One of football, volleyball or badminton featured in my daily schedule. I dabbled in debates and quizzes; had my share of mooting as well.

     

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    How would you compare your alma mater with other premier law institutes in India?

    I don’t see how I can make an objective comparison. I have after all studied only in GNLU and know very little about how things are in other law universities. That said, I think GNLU has some extremely good faculty for some subjects, while also having its share of subjects that I would not count among GNLU’s strengths. This I assume would be the case in most other law schools as well. The important bit for me however is that, the attitude to academics in GNLU has not been completely blinkered by an examination centric system. We had enough happening around the core curriculum to keep the courses lively.

     

    Please tell us about your approach towards academics while in college.

    My approach to academics in college was somewhat unconventional. My CGPA was nothing great. I was essentially a five-point someone and just about managed to cross in to higher grades on a couple of occasions. I did not attach too much importance to studying for exams and scoring high marks. I however did put in a lot of effort into and spent more time on projects and class presentations. At times I volunteered in researching for classes as an informal teaching assistant, while also teaching a few modules to junior batches.

     

    Tell us about the kind of internships that you did while in law school. Did you have any such experience during an internship which helped you decide your career choice?

    I came in to law school with the idea that I would someday want to argue in court. Litigation was my calling and I picked internships accordingly. I applied for internships based on recommendations from friends who had previously interned under certain lawyers or on suggestions from my bosses at a particular internship. I started off with placements with lawyers who had large trial court practices and then moved on to High Court and Supreme Court internships.

    There was a criminal law (trial) internship that I did in Bangalore with special focus on forensic evidence. Mr. Shankarappa’s (advocate on the criminal law side in Bangalore) practice had a great variety of such matters. I assisted in the evidence stage of a murder trial involving the death of a call-centre employee in Bangalore. This exercise involved a fair bit of understanding of how forensic evidence works. Also this particular case had attracted considerable media attention and had generated some public opinion. To some extent, during this particular internship I was taught to understand things the way a lawyer is expected to, without being too influenced by opinions created outside the case file.

    All my internships have been hugely beneficial. The third year onwards, I deliberately chose to work in smaller offices where the amount of work outweighed the number of lawyers.  During most of my internships I got deeply involved in the cases that were assigned to me and tried to go about research and preparations as if I was going to argue the case. Internship experiences in the chambers of Mr. Nikhil Nayyar, Advocate-on-record, Supreme Court and at Nayak & Srikumar (currently called Keystone Partners – where I am now employed) egged me on to take up litigation straight out of college.

     

    What are the biggest hurdles and challenges of a litigation career? How do you deal with them and with litigation generally?

    Well, I still am in the early days of my career and challenges are a daily feature. The initial few days I just spent in coming to terms with how little I knew of how courts work.  Over time you learn on the job and things seem more comprehensible, you feel less clueless. The manner in which you deal with these challenges matures with time, as you better your understanding of the job, the law and court procedure. In the first couple of months as a litigating lawyer my sole aim was to see a hearing through without making a fool of myself. There sure were times when I did not manage that, but I must concede that every court outing, good or bad, has been a big learning experience. The only way to learn and get better, I would think, is by spending productive hours in court, preparing thoroughly for every hearing and perfecting your basics. As for court craft, there is no real way of learning it. You probably develop it for yourself by appearing in court regularly and from watching senior colleagues in action.

    As for the second part of the question: Progress in litigation can be slow and testing; the only way forward is by constantly keeping at it and innovating your way through trying situations. At the end of it all though, the high that follows a good day in court makes litigation worth all the time and labour it demands.

     

    What are the essential soft skills that a law student aspiring to make a successful career in litigation should work on?

    Just the willingness to learn and the drive to keep at it.

     

    You are the Founder Editor of ‘The Colloquium’, an online views journal. Please tell us about the experience. What made you start this website?

    The initial idea was to create some sort of a platform for stories and news that are not considered news worthy by the mainstream media. Unfortunately most of the mainstream media is constrained by market limitations. The attributes that a particular story needs to boast of to make it to television studios or appear in print ensures that certain kind of news (or views) will forever be denied space. On the other extreme some very pertinent issues of public importance get limited to discussions in peer-reviewed academic journals.  The Colloquium has in its own small way tried to provide space to lesser heard stories.

    The experience of running the journal has been very educative. The interviews with Capt. Lakshmi Sehgal, Justice V R Krishan Iyer and Shyam Benegal have been most memorable. It gave me the opportunity of documenting glimpses of some notably extraordinary lives.

     

    You’ve represented your university at prestigious moot court competitions. How significant do you think mooting is for law students?

    Mooting can help introduce oneself to preparing a brief or researching on a point of law. That said, it cannot claim to compare with the experience of researching or drafting for a case in court. Moot courts do not always demand a nuanced understanding of the law as much as it recognises the ability to argue a certain legal proposition. As for significance to a law student, I would rate a good internship experience over a good moot experience. But given all of this you cannot take away from the excitement and fun that mooting brings with it. To some extent it teaches you that a good argument in law cannot be confused with good oratory. That substance assumes priority over style and diction is a lesson that mooting has taught me.

     

    Your team secured the ‘Best Memorial’ award at the India Rounds of the 53rd Philip C. Jessup International Moot Court Competition. Additionally, you were also adjudged the Fourth Best Student Advocate. How did you go about your preparation?

    The credit for this does not belong to me. I was fortunate to be a part of a very good team. The preparation was gruelling, at the same time very enjoyable. We spent a lot of time having heated arguments on propositions that we wanted to plead. It helped that two of my team-mates had very well-reasoned opposing views on almost every point, and thus drafting memos for rival sides became a tad bit easier. Our research was quite exhaustive and a great deal of effort went into ensuring that our memorials were unblemished. With a huge chunk of the ground work having already been done, a decent performance during the argument rounds did not seem very difficult.

     

    You have also since drafted moot problems and judged argument rounds. What was the experience like to be on the other side?

    Far less stressful!

     

    Pic Courtesy: Ishani Dave
    Pic Courtesy: Ishani Dave

    How important do you think that extra-curricular activities are to a law student? How can one manage time effectively?

    I did not manage my time effectively. I devoted almost all my time to extra-curricular and co-curricular activities. My approach was simple – I got involved in anything that interested me and everything that I thought was worth exploring. Working on college journals, heading the cultural committee, debating, quizzing, films, photography and sports, all of these exposed me to things that a text book would never teach me. These activities in fact made classroom learning more engaging. Law school would have been quite drab had it not been for these experiences.

     

    As a concluding message, what would be your suggestions to law students?

    Do not let ‘recruitments’ take control of your life in law school.

    For most of us law school happens just once, have fun while it lasts 🙂

  • Sahana Raghunathan, Associate, JSA, Chennai, on studying at ILS Pune, recruitment and work at a top law firm

    Sahana Raghunathan, Associate, JSA, Chennai, on studying at ILS Pune, recruitment and work at a top law firm

    Sahana Raghunathan is an Associate at JSA, Chennai. She graduated from ILS Law College, Pune with a BSL LL.B degree. She also pursued Diploma courses in Human Rights and Corporate Laws. After graduation, she joined Vichar Partners as an Associate. Vichar Partners was subsequently merged with JSA where she continued to work. In this interview she talks about:

    • Studying at ILS and Diploma Courses
    • Recruitments and internships at JSA, Chennai
    • A career in corporate law and maintaining work-life balance

     

    How would you introduce yourself? Could you please share a little bit of what motivated you to pursue law as a career?

    Let me start by thanking SuperLawyer for this amazing opportunity. Greetings from the city of Chennai! I am Sahana Raghunathan, Associate, JSA. A Proud 90’s kid and a Corporate Lawyer. Enthusiasm personified.

    Having always been a topper and driven by marks in school, engineering “ought” to have been the natural next step. It was something like a rebellious decision (read: against the typical belief of a “tambrahm” family) to take commerce in class 11. My father likes to believe it’s because he convinced me that law and economics is a good combination. I have been told that two of my great-grandfathers were part of the then judicial system. Let’s just say that this gene skipped many a generation before me! Jokes apart and however clichéd it may sound, it was going to be either law or journalism. One road was taken, the other not. I am now with the corporate team in JSA, Chennai and my main practice areas include private equity, mergers and acquisition, banking and finance and general corporate commercial.

     

    Tell us about your college life at ILS Law College, Pune. What was the reason behind pursuing various Diploma courses? Was it a professional requirement to enhance more in your career?

    Choosing to pursue law in any city, away from home, was a conscious decision and it had a lot to do with wanting to lead an independent life (not to be read as misusing independence et al).Being the first batch to give CLAT, I was placed in Rajiv Gandhi National University of Law Punjab. But I decided to go ahead with Indian Law Society (ILS) Law College, Pune, as it is a very well established institution and it proved to be the perfect choice. Attending early morning lectures seems to have prepped me for my early morning work hours now. But the main advantage of studying in ILS, apart from the excellent and very approachable faculty, is the fact that we had the rest of the day to ourselves to pursue our other interests, legal or otherwise (no pun intended). The Diploma in Human Rights (in my second year of law school) was to get a feel of that side of law I knew I would not make a career of. When in my third year, the Diploma in Corporate Laws gave me a direction to follow and I was sure of what I wanted to do once I graduated from law school.

     

    Please comment on the quality and structure of these courses. How much practical knowledge did you gain from it?

    We had the diploma classes as frequent as thrice a week depending on the schedule of the main course (i.e., BSL. LL.B). Excellent part time faculty, who were mostly working professionals, were engaged to take practical sessions and though these sessions were not as effective as internships, they were helpful nonetheless.

     

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    What were your areas of interest during your graduation? How did you go about developing expertise and knowledge in these areas?

    My internships during law school have been in various fields: IP, corporate litigation, general corporate commercial, banking and arbitration. Though I have always been inclined towards a career in corporate law, I wanted to venture into other areas as well and when better a time than as a student. I was really lucky to have interned with some of the best advocates such as Mr. Satish Parasaranand law firms/legal departments in Chennai such as R&P Associates, HSB Associates and Kotak Mahindra Bank.

    As an intern, the workload is less and the seniors there tend to pamper you as they know life after graduation. Talking to them, learning practical aspects of working from them and also utilising the libraries at such offices always prepared me for a better next year at law school. I knew what to look out for and how to grow professionally.

     

    Did you find that your law school education had prepared you sufficiently for the many tasks you were required to execute during your internships and later at your job?

    On a theoretical level, law school preps you to know the law. The internships prepare you for the practical aspect, as in how to implement the law and how to work with it. The first few months at work is when you actually get to realise how to work the two in tandem and be creative while balancing the two.

     

    Soon after graduation you joined Vichar Partners as an Associate. Did all the attorneys from Vichar Partners continue to work after the Merger with JSA? Did it affect your work in any way?

    Yes, that’s correct. It was announced that Vichar Partners was set to merge with JSA, one of the top national law firms, effective April 1, 2014. It was an exciting moment as a young associate to realise that I would get to work with attorneys pan India and the level of exposure I would get while doing so. And yes, all the attorneys and the staff of Vichar Partners were absorbed by JSA post-merger.

    We, at Vichar, always believed in providing outstanding legal solutions, in our chosen practice areas with a strong emphasis on ethics. So it was very easy to fall in line with the mission statement of JSA. The transition was easy as the working culture was similar in both the firms and the merger has been having a very positive impact on our working style.

     

    What is your take on working at a smaller law firm in early years of career rather than working at a very big law firm?

    I wanted to join a mid-sized firm with an effective presence in the market and Vichar fit the bill perfectly. And I am glad that they decided to welcome me. The reason behind choosing a growing firm like Vichar was so that the hype and pressures around a top firm could be avoided at the beginning stages of my career but at the same time, be exposed to that same level of work and clientele. My time at Vichar was a learning slate that prepared me and gave me the confidence, both professionally and personally, to meld easily into JSA.

     

    How was your first year after graduation? What were the biggest hurdles and challenges after joining work? How did you deal with them?

    I was a lucky fresher who had a very happening first year at work:

    Mid-sized firm into a top national law firm;

    Companies Act, 1956 to the Companies Act, 2013.

    It was a little confusing at first; we had learnt the old statute while in law school but we were expected to apply the new statute at work. That I would say was one of the top concerns in my first year. At JSA, we give a lot of importance to knowledge management. We regularly have internal team discussions across the JSA offices and internal seminars and presentations that help us stay on top of things and this also ensures networking intra JSA.

     

    What are the primary professional ethics you follow while at work? How do you deal with mistakes or errors?

    I am a team player. I believe that achieving the same result as that of what the client expects from you is the most satisfying aspect of work. And for that, team work with structured hierarchy is very essential. I value the time my seniors spend in mentoring me, my peers spend in discussions with me and my juniors spend in assisting me. Respecting my colleagues’ comments and the ability to value their input is what has helped me reach the stage I am at today.

    I think a lot of corporate lawyers would agree with me when I say that it is impossible to send out a perfect first draft. In the last one and half years of work, I have learnt that stress is only going to add to my mistakes. Getting the concepts clear, discussing it with your colleagues, reading up on it will minimalize the errors and prepare you for subsequent transactions. Also, do hope that a supreme power (read: mentoring partner/ senior associate) is around to save your dayJ

     

    There is a considerable attrition rate at the top law firms, what do you think contributes to this?

    I am sure that the reasons are mostly the same irrespective of the field of work. Some of the common grounds may be immense stress or pressure; internal politics; personal issues or plain boredom.

     

    What would be the one misconception you’d say you’d always held about real life legal work till the time you were an intern but changed once you started working as a lawyer?

    Timelines and deadlines. These two words give every corporate lawyer the same feeling as an e-mail wherein the client negotiates for a lower fee quote. As an intern, I had not been exposed to unimaginable timelines. I was always under the impression that lawyers were above all and our opinion was the law of the land. Apparently not. The clients seem to know, from their experience, as much if not more than a lawyer, the workings of law on a practical basis. And if it is a start-up, they expect the lawyers to learn the law along with them. The respect has been and will always be for the law.

     

    What are the other related fields where a corporate lawyer can try hand apart from joining law firms and corporate houses?

    This era seems to be sprouting new and innovative law related jobs. One can look at being hired at legal recruitment firms; go on secondments to companies where there is no in-house legal team; join legal database compilation teams; involve in translation of legislations from vernacular languages to English and vice versa etc. And not to forget, I think every lawyer should do his/her share of pro bono work.

     

    What is the procedure for internship and recruitment at Chennai office of JSA? Please tell our readers about the same?

    Applicants are encouraged to apply at least 6 months in advance of the month during which internship is sought. Applicants may also apply to internship@jsalaw.com. For further details, please visit http://internship.jsalaw.com/application-process.aspx.

     

    Life for lawfirmites can be very hectic at times. What is your take on work-life balance? How do you unwind?

    I think it is okay to push oneself to a certain limit. Sometimes people work best under pressure as it drives them till they are able to solve their way out. But it is equally important to know and respect one’s health and family and not push away/ neglect the same. I try to keep my weekends as free as possible (atleast Sundays for sure). I find it rejuvenating to open my laptop on a Monday morning if I have seen it last on a Friday night. But since that is a farfetched dream, let’s just go with making the most of weekends and some weeknights when the deliverables for the day are done early.

    For me, unwinding means time for DIY stuff (evidenced from my office desk and walls at home); quality time with family and friends; surfing social media sites and organising/ coordinating events (from family get-togethers to JSA annual attorney retreats).

     

    What is the current scenario of studying corporate law as a career option in India? What would be your parting message to law students who want to be successful in corporate law?

    To graduate in law within the next few years would be ideal for anyone looking to make an impact in this field. New law firms are emerging; established law firms are either expanding or splitting, and all this leads to the same: boom in the job market with inevitable and intense competition.

    My parting message:

    • Know the law and enjoy working with it;
    • Be disciplined in your work; this is no place to be casual or careless;
    • Treat your clients with respect and acknowledge the fact they know the law as much as you do;
    • And finally, let law be the winner.
  • Munish Mehra, Partner, Saikrishna and Associates, on specialising in IPR, changes in career, tips to associates and interns

    Munish Mehra, Partner, Saikrishna and Associates, on specialising in IPR, changes in career, tips to associates and interns

    Munish Mehra belongs to the first batch of NLIU, Bhopal (Batch of 2003). After graduation he joined AMSS as an Associate for 9 months before switching to Anand and Anand where he subsequently became a Managing Associate. Thereafter, he joined Luthra & Luthra Law Offices as a Managing Associate. In January 2014, he joined Saikrishna and Associates and within 11 months, he was promoted to Partner. In this interview he talks about:

    • Academics and specializing in IPR Laws
    • Working at full service law firms and boutique law firms
    • Tips on converting internships to a PPO

     

    What brought you into studying law? Was it fate or plan?

    My foray into studying law was totally unplanned as I do not come from a legal background and am a first generation lawyer. I heard of the National Law School at Bangalore for the first time in 1998 through a friend who happened to be studying there. As luck would have it, the National Law Institute University was set up at Bhopal in the same year that I graduated from school i.e. 1998. I gave the entrance exam for the university, got through and things moved ahead from there.

     

    Please tell us a little about your law school days at the National Law Institute University, Bhopal? How were you at academics?

    As a part of the first batch of NLIU, Bhopal, I think all of us were a little sceptical about how the university would develop in the future. I still remember the first day of the academic session in September 1998 when we started from a premises which had been rented by the Government for the University and we set up the tables and chairs ourselves in a little classroom and got down to studying law. What helped in the initial trimesters was the inclusion of various BA subjects such as sociology, history etc which helped us to get into the groove so to speak before moving onto hardcore legal subjects. I was a relatively good student through my years at the University and finished in the top five of my class when we graduated.

     

    How important do you say is a good CGPA for an illustrious legal career?

    The importance of a good CGPA has increased over the years with the advent of numerous law schools coming up in various other states. However, I firmly believe that to have a good career in the legal profession, a good CGPA is just one element which plays a part in the making of a good lawyer.

     

    You have specialized in IPR law. What made you interested in the same? How do you say one can gain expertise in IPR Law? What does it take to be a good IPR lawyer?

    In the first couple of years at the University, a few seminars and moot courts were organized focusing on IPR law which played a major part in me developing an interest in IPR law. We had not yet studied IPR law till then as they were a part of the 4th year subjects. I then did two internships with Anand & Anand at the end of my 2nd and 3rd years which give me an insight into how IPR law actually works in the real world. The process of gaining expertise in IPR law or becoming a good IPR lawyer is no different from any other branch of law and requires one to be able to grasp the issues involved in the case at hand which forms the basis of your claim or defence, as the case may be, and presenting a well drafted and argued brief before a Court.

     

    You started your career at AMSS as an Associate. How did you secure your appointment? How would you describe your experience working there?

    I was recruited by AMSS pursuant to the first campus placement which happened at the University at the time the first batch was about to pass out. In fact, AMSS was the only law firm which came for the placement of our first batch and two people were recruited by the Firm. Working at AMSS was an interesting experience as even at that time it was considered to be the best full service law firm in India. My area of work involved general corporate commercial advisory and transactions. I think the biggest takeaway from my tenure at AMSS was that it made one realise that there is a sizable difference between studying subjects theoretically in law school and their application in real world deals and transactions as there are so many practical facets and situations which one is not exposed to while studying subjects in law school.

     

    After 9 months of work at AMSS, you switched to Anand and Anand as an Associate and later worked as a Managing Associate there. You also had the oppurtunity to work at Luthra & Luthra Law Offices as a Managing Associate. Please share your experience at both these place.

    It was a conscious decision to make the shift from AMSS to Anand & Anand as after a while I realised that my real interest lay in practising IPR law even though the initiation into the real legal world through AMSS held me in good stead in the coming years. I worked at Anand & Anand for nearly six years during the course of which I led the anti-piracy and anti-counterfeiting practice at the firm and had a wonderful time doing so. Luthra & Luthra posed a new challenge in terms of setting a new practice area from the ground up and it was an interesting experience to go back to a full service set from a boutique firm.

     

    Also, was there any difference in the work environment of these two law firms, considering the fact that Anand and Anand mainly deals with IPR law whereas Luthra & Luthra is a full service law firm?

    The work environment of a full service and boutique firm does vary to a large extent. The environment in a boutique firm tends to be more informal and due to a lesser number of individuals, helps in developing interpersonal relationships faster. A full service firm environment on the other hand is much more regimented and necessarily so because of the sheer number of people working there. Therefore, it does take some time to get used to it if you have joined from a smaller setup.

     

    What qualities do you think helped you for promotion to Managing Associate at Anand and Anand & Luthra and Luthra Law Offices?

    It was a combination of factors such as developing an expertise in my practice area and being able to handle matters competently and independently relatively early in my tenure at Anand & Anand. Most importantly, it helped that I was able to develop a rapport with the clients I worked with regularly so that when the time came for elevation to Managing Associate, clients were more than happy with me leading their matters on a regular basis without requiring a supervising partner. Consequently, my team reported directly to the Managing Partner of the firm.

     

    You were made a partner at Saikrishna and Associates in just Eleven months of work. What would you say helped you to join the ranks of a Partner?

    In January, 2014, I joined Saikrishna and Assciates as an Of-Counsel and within 11 months, I was promoted to the ranks of a Partner. So to say, yes, I was made a partner in Eleven months.

    Well I was a lateral hire from Luthra & Luthra having spent three years independently handling my own team and servicing the clients which had given me work when I shifted from Anand & Anand. I guess the ability to service clients professionally, train a team from the ground up, manage them and independently run successful campaigns on behalf of various clients were factors which led to me being elevated at a Partner at Saikrishna & Associates.

     

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    What kind of effort should a young Associate put in to work to get it appreciated? What distinguishes an Associate with a Partner when it comes to work?

    At an associate level, the requirements are relatively simple in terms of being totally aware of the factual matrix of the matter, doing diligent and through research, being reasonably acceptable at drafting and being disciplined at the work place. If an associate is able to display the abovementioned qualities, any firm would be more than happy as nothing more is expected. The deliverables as expected from a Partner are totally different as he or she is expected to provide strategic advice and guidance to a client on a particular matter or campaign, monitor and supervise the work done by associates, and also ensure that billing targets as given by the Firm are met by his team and recoveries happen in a timely manner.

     

    What does a Partner at a Law Firm like Saikrishna and Associates do? What falls within the scope of your responsibility? Tell us about a typical work day.

    A Partner at Saikrishna & Associates is responsible for supervision of matters handled by his or her team, appearances before various Courts, providing strategic advice in relation to matters, reviewing opinions and memos as required by clients from time to time on various legal aspects, ensuring that billing targets are met by the team and also developing and bringing new work into the Firm. A typical day involves either going to Court for matters as listed, or coming into the office and handling various miscellaneous work such as reviewing opinions, legal pleadings, client meetings and telecons. The Firm does a lot of outstation matters which usually involves travelling to various courts across states and either a Partner or Senior Associate/Associate does that depending upon the importance of the hearing and the complexity of the matter.

     

    How important is it for a Partner of a law firm to be good at business development, or are great lawyering skills enough to become a partner? What separates the people who become Partner from those who don’t?

    Different people have different skill sets and not every Partner in a law firm is a rainmaker. It is of course beneficial for a Partner to be good at business development as that helps in the overall growth of a Firm but at the same time it is important to have senior people in the Firm who are able to handle the day to day supervision and functioning of their respective departments thereby contributing to the overall efficiency and quality of work done by a Firm. I think the ability to handle and supervise complex matters, manage teams independently, provide strategic but practical advice to clients and having the ability to develop long standing relationships with clients which generate revenues for the Firm is what separates people who become Partners from those who don’t. That is not to say that other individuals are not equally important as human talent and expertise is the most valuable resource of a law firm and that is what gives a firm its “reputation”.

     

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    How is the work culture at Saikrishna and Associates? If an Associate commits a mistake or an error what course of action do you follow?

    Saikrishna & Associates has a great and innovative work culture which is quite different from the regimented schedules which some firms insist upon. The focus of the Firm is on “client delivery” and empowering individuals to be responsible for their work product. The result is that you find Associates as well as Partners being happily available to clients 24/7 which is much appreciated. I think the way a Firm deals with a mistake by an Associate is reflected by how its senior people deal with such a situation and in that sense the Firm has preferred to explain the error rather than “shout” at an Associate for committing a mistake.

     

    What are the other areas of study which you think that a law student wanting to excel as a professional in the field of IPR should be proficient in?

    I think it’s important for a lawyer to keep abreast of as many developments in law as possible as you never know on which facet a client may need urgent advice. An IPR matter may involve a taxation or royalty aspect one day or a criminal law aspect another day. Therefore, it’s very difficult to pinpoint any other branch of law which a lawyer must focus on to be proficient in the field of IPR.

     

    What changes has being a Partner brought into your life, do you ever feel that there is excess of work load on you? How do you manage to strike a balance between your personal and professional life?

    Being a Partner does bring added responsibility as you are ultimately responsible to the client for the work product turned out by your team. A Partner, as mentioned earlier does have to make efforts to bring in new clients into the Firm for its overall growth and development. The culture of the workplace makes a huge difference in being able to maintain a balance between work and personal life while a lot of firms may say that they place a great emphasis on the work life balance of their lawyers, our Firm does actually walk the talk so to speak.

     

    The trend is now on gathering various internship experiences at different places. Was the scenario same while you were pursuing law? How is internship helpful for a law student?

    The number of internships as done by students now, are a lot more as compared to when I was in law school. It’s not uncommon to find ten to twelve internships on a CV these days while we used to do one internship a year. An internship is very useful for a law student as you are exposed to so many practical facets of actual legal practice which is impossible to experience in law school. However, it is important to focus on the type of internships which a law student does during his law school years as the quality of internships are more important than the quantity on a CV.

     

    What is the procedure to apply for an internship or recruitment at Saikrishna and Associates? What are the qualities which they look for in their prospective employees?

    We have a Partner who is in charge of internships at the Firm. Prospective internees send their resumes to our HR department pursuant to which the Partner decides the internships to be granted for a particular period. We take special care not to overstuff the firm with a lot of interns at any given time to ensure that all interns get quality exposure to the work being done at the firm.

     

    What do you feel makes an intern stand out and is very important for him to do to have a chance of getting a call back or even a PPO? How do you think interns can get noticed in a positive way in the limited time they have?

    It’s important for an intern to be diligent and disciplined at his or her work. Reasonable oral and written skills, a decent knowledge of first principles and the ability to research properly is what makes an intern stand out from the crowd so to speak. It’s also important for internees to do at least a one month internship to enable the Firm to assess their capabilities as a 10 or 15 day internship, which some students do today to increase their tally of internships doesn’t really help in them either learning anything about the Firm or increasing their chances of getting a PPO.

     

    What would you suggest to someone who is preparing to work with an IPR law firm? What are the basic subjects which one should read and have understanding of before sitting for an interview?

    If an individual is interested in working for an IPR boutique firm then it’s advisable to be aware of the “first principles” and basics of IPR law in relation to Copyrights, Trademarks, Patents etc. An awareness of recent developments in the field of IPR is also very helpful and there are various online blogs and commentaries which regularly report such developments and recent case law.

     

    The question that whether one should specialise in a particular area of law or be more of a general lawyer often comes up before law students. What is your opinion on the same?

    It depends on the type of practice an individual wants to do. As an independent practitioner, it’s necessary to be conversant with various areas of law be it civil, criminal or even company/corporate law litigation and advisory. A lawyer in a law firm will typically specialize in a few areas and will be known in the profession for his expertise in those areas. I have come across very few lawyers working in law firms who can claim to be masters in all fields.

     

    Is there anything you would like to have done differently?

    I think every experience and decision teaches you something new which makes you a better person and professional. So to sum it up, I really would not have done things differently. There is still a long way to go and lawyers never retire anyways!!

     

    Where do you see yourself ten years down the line? Do you aspire to be like somebody from this field?

    Ideally sitting on a beach and relaxing!! On a more serious note, one would like to be someone known in the profession as an individual who is dependable, experienced and sought after. Every lawyer likes to be well known and let them not tell you otherwise. I really don’t aspire to be like someone. I would rather be known as myself ten years down the line.

     

  • Amit Sachdeva, Associate E&Y, USA, on double-LL.M from LSE and NYU and being a noted tax practitioner

    Amit Sachdeva, Associate E&Y, USA, on double-LL.M from LSE and NYU and being a noted tax practitioner

    Amit Sachdeva completed his BA.LLB from GGSIPU after which he went on to pursue an LL.M in Corporate and Commercial Laws. On the successful completion of his degree he worked with Vaish Associates. Thereafter, he pursued his second LL.M from NYU. At present he works an associate at Ernst & Young, US.

    His two most cherished achievements are: successfully taking the Diploma in Private international Law from the Hague Academy of International Law – one of the youngest to do so since 1950 and one of the four in India to have it; and getting recognised in Legal500.com and in Tax Directors’ Handbook as an “up-and-coming lawyer who specializes in tax litigation”.

    In this interview with Amit, he talks about:

    • Completing his bachelors in law from GGSIPU.
    • Being a part of the LSE curriculum as an LL.M student.
    • His working days at Vaish Associates.
    • His Diploma in Private international Law from the Hague Academy of International Law – one of the youngest to do so since 1950 and one of the four in India to have it.
    • His experience of studying at NYU, from where he did his second LL.M.
    • Working at Ernst & Young Associates, USA at present.

     

    Say Hi! to our readers!

    Hello! I am Amit Sachdeva. I was born and brought up in Faridabad, a suburb of New Delhi. Currently, I work as an M&A Tax attorney at Ernst & Young US. I am an alumnus of GGSIPU, LSE and NYU.

     

    What motivated you to gravitate towards law, as a discipline and a career? Why did you decide to study law at GGSIPU?

    Law for me was a natural career choice. My father, Mr. Madan Lal Sachdeva, was an advocate. I idealize him. I was always inspired by the respect he commanded in the society, by his ability to reason everything and by his natural passion—which was professionally crafted—to defy “aisahi hotahai” (this is how it works) attitude. These early childhood impressions took full shape when I began to realize the difference a lawyer can make to the society.

    While in Class XII all my friends were aspiring to be doctors, engineers and chartered accountants, I wanted to something that was intellectually stimulating, financially rewarding and socially empowering; something that was constant and dynamic at the same time, something that needed patience and excitement simultaneously. Law was like a perfect blend!

    GGSIPU, in 2002, was the only law school in New Delhi that offered a law course straight after high school. I didn’t want to move out of New Delhi—that’s the place we have the Parliament, the Supreme Court and the Ministries. I thought there couldn’t be a better place to study law than in New Delhi. And, as I reflect on it; I don’t disagree.

     

    Please tell us about your time at GGSIPU. What experiences during these five years would you think particularly helped you shape as a law professional?

    GGSIPU School of Law and Legal Studies was a treat. My experience was very fulfilling. The fact that ours was the second batch had its own challenges and fun. The challenge was that we had to steer our own way. And the fun was exactly that. There is no better way of learning than pioneering. Each day was an experience. Classroom discussions, moot court competitions, summer internships, cricket matches, canteen time, all of them had a part to play in how I got shaped. I think GGSIPU was an experience in itself.

     

    You have been an outstanding student throughout your school and college years. It’s not every day that someone achieves an academic laurel in each year of school! Please give us a few actionable tips on managing good grades.

    Well, I think there is no mantra to good grades. Quite honestly, I think while grades aesthetically matter, it is the passion for your work that matters more. If you ask me for a tip, it will be this: try to understand a rule for a lifetime, not commit it to memory for an exam. There is a reason behind why a rule is what it is. If you try following the reason, law school exams are not hard to score on.

     

    Soon after graduation, you went on a full tuition scholarship to London School of Economics and Political Science for an LL.M in Corporate and Commercial Laws. What was the decisive factor that prompted you to choose LSE from amongst the options available?

    As I grew up at law school, I realized the relevance of a fuller education and an international experience to our profession. It was in the early part of the fourth year of law school that I decided to apply for an LL.M. degree. Of the various options, the ones that I was seriously considering were Oxford University and LSE. Although Oxford has an impeccable legal tradition, I decided to join LSE primarily for the very reason I got drawn to GGSIPU five years ago: what better place to study law than the capital city. LSE is in London. Besides, LSE also has, I think, a better reputation for corporate, commercial, and international business laws than Oxford does. Of course, there is an element of subjectivity around it. But that is what I thought. The other reason was that Oxford offered me a partial-scholarship; LSE, a full. I didn’t apply to any law school in the US.

     

    What should one do differently in college if he/she wants to pursue higher studies after graduation? What according to you is a good profile for securing scholarships and funding?

    Following an LL.M straight after school, or spending a little time at work and then pursuing a master’s degree, is really a matter of personal choice. A lot of factors play in, such as availability of finances, family commitments, etc. Having pursued an LL.M directly after school and then another one after some work ex, I would second that work experience does put a lot of things in perspective.

    As far as admissions are concerned, I think finding an admission in a top LL.M program is hard. And, finding a scholarship is harder. I think the trick is to demonstrate two things. First, an all-round personality and, second, a commitment to the field you want to pursue. Participating in moot court competitions, debates, mock parliaments, summer internships, besides good grades and writing articles should go a long way. Publications are often viewed as synonymous with academic excellence and commitment. A handful of international publications and I think you jump the queue of applicants for a place at a top LL.M program. I must however hasten to emphasize that a reviewer spends a few minutes reviewing a case for a scholarship. So, if you get one, thank your stars; if you don’t, there is no reason to be disheartened… the decision may not be a reflection of your potential. There is just no exact science out there.

     

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    Please tell us about your time at LSE. Tell us about the academic pressure, faculty and campus life. What differences did you find between the education systems of India and the U.K.?

    The UK system is as close to the Indian as it can be. An overwhelming majority of our statutes and court decisions are based on or drawn from those of the UK. So, adjustment was not much of an issue. What was however a surprise—a pleasant one of course—was to first-hand experience the level of legal scholarship. I had the opportunity to be a student of some of the most respected scholarsacross the globe. Prof. Paul Davies (author of Gower and Davies, Principles of Company Law), Prof. Trevor Hartley (Private International Law) or Prof. Christopher Greenwood (since appointed as Judge, ICJ), the list is endless; they are scholarship-personified. I think the Indian education system needs two things—sincerity and funding.

     

    Meanwhile, you were also awarded a Diploma in Private International Law from The Hague Academy of International Law. How did you go about achieving this? Please tell us about the procedure to apply and the course.

    Yes, and I was also one of the youngest persons in the world to achieve this feat since the Diploma was incepted in 1950 and one of the only four Indians to hold this Diploma.

    Every year The Hague Academy of International Law organizes a summer school. The school has two sessions: one in Public International Law and the other in Private International Law. The sessions are taught by some of best professors and practitioners in the world. Each session attracts about 300 students. The applications are announced on their official website. Based on the performance of the students, some of the students sit for the Diploma exam. Although there is no cap, roughly about 10 students take the exam each session. There is a written test and then take an extempore oral test on a topic of international law. This is followed by the panel interviewing the student with questions, some related and some unrelated to the assigned topic. At the end, one or sometimes two students are awarded the Diploma.

     

    After coming back to India, you started your career at Vaish Associates. How did your appointment take place? Please walk us through your work profile.

    I joined the Direct Taxes team of Vaish Associates in September 2008. I had emailed the HR there. Vaish was one of the most welcoming law firms I came across. They acknowledged my email—something we don’t see too often. I had two rounds of interviews. After the interview with partner I was extended an offer to join their tax litigation team. I grabbed the opportunity.

    As a member of the tax litigation team, I attended client meetings, drafted petitions and appeals, appeared before tax officers and represented matters before the courts. I had the opportunity to handle work for many of the Fortune500 companies. In my first year, my work was more domestic tax focussed, but as I spent more time with the practice, international tax occupied my plate more and more. My partners often engaged me on assignments that involved intensive research into dense regulations, engagements that required knowledge and understanding of laws other than tax law, and matters that challenged constitutional validity of tax statutes. I handled a large number of writ petitions challenging the validity of reassessment proceedings. In addition, I would write tax opinions for our clients and render other advisory services.

     

    Tell us what did you like the most about your days at Vaish Associates.

    I had some of the best time of my life at Vaish. I worked long hours, made great friends, learnt tax law and partied. Besides, I helped the firm organize conferences, published papers, conducted team trainings, etc. It was a wholesome experience. What I liked the most about the place was the open-door policy. This meant that professionals at all levels, starting from associates and all the way up, had full access to all the partners at all times. Mr. Ajay Vohra, Mr. Rupesh Jain and Mr. Neeraj Jain personally ensured that this work ethic percolated all the way down. Mr. Rupesh Jain continues to be my mentor. I do reach out to him even today for discussions—both at personal and professional levels.

     

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    In 2013, you were noted in Legal500.com and in Tax Directors’ Handbook as an “up-and-coming lawyer who specializes in tax litigation”. How did you feel about it?

    “It must be a misprint!” were the first words that I uttered when a colleague of mine at Vaish Associates came to my desk and broke the news to me. I had no idea about it. There was no application process … no submission … no request from my side. I understand that Legal500 and TDHB undertake an independent survey of the market and clients, and report their findings impartially. Once it sank in that my name was noted, I was overwhelmed. On the lighter side, I continue to believe that it was a misprint! By far, this and The Hague Academy Diploma are two achievements that are closest to my heart.

     

    You were briefly a Visiting Faculty at NLU, Delhi where you taught a semester-long Certificate Course on Direct Taxation. How did you manage to eke out time?

    I have a passion for teaching. I have always wanted to be an adjunct professor. NLU Delhi offers semester long certificate courses. I think these students were some of the most self-motivated ones I have come across. In order to accommodate my professional commitments, my students sometimes sat in classes starting 9 in the evening and going well past midnight. One weekend they travelled all the way from Dwarka to the Vaish office in central Delhi. I think they managed, I did not. All I did was: talk! If any of my former students is reading this interview, I want to say: thank you!

     

    You left your job to pursue a second LL.M. degree., this time at NYU. Considering that you had already earned an LL.M degree, what prompted you for this?

    My first LL.M was in Corporate and Commercial Laws. But, as it turned out I began practicing tax law. So, the primary motivation was to understand the theoretical underpinnings of the rules I invoked so often in practice. I always believed that there is much to learn from the US and the UK systems, and knowing their laws would boost my practice. Besides, I also wanted to develop an international network of professionals working in the same field as I was. So, that led me to apply for another LL.M. I already had an LL.M. from the UK, I decided to cross the Atlantic and try my luck at some US universities. With God’s grace, I was offered an admission with a scholarship I couldn’t turn down. My mother and my elder brother supported my decision to go.

     

    Currently you work as an Associate at Ernst & Young, Houston, USA. Which events led to your induction into EY, USA?

    NYU School of Law makes a significant investment in its careers office. There are a couple of job fairs that NYU organizes. The careers office also invites employers from across the country to the law school to interview NYU students. I applied for a number of job interviews, had call back interviews with a few. EY Houston office had also participated in one such interview program. I had a telephonic interview followed by an on-campus interview, and a round of four interviews during office visit. Shortly after the office visit, I was offered a position. The entire recruitment process spanned over three/four weeks.

     

    What does your current work profile at EY consists of? Share with us a few of the most challenging problems you have faced thus far?

    I work with the M&A Tax team at EY. My practice entails conducting tax due diligence, writing tax memoranda and tax structuring. Typically, a tax DD is like a health check-up from a tax perspective. Tax memoranda are a narrative of what the legal position on an issue is. Tax structuring, which is my favourite, involves informing clients of the different structuring options in which a transaction may be done.

    The complexity of the US tax law is the most challenging part of my work. But, that is also the part I enjoy the most about my practice.

     

    Tell us a bit about work culture in USA. How is EY, USA different from an Indian company/firm in terms of their working?

    I think as we brisk walk more into this millennium, our practices, behaviours, languages, cultures, ethics are converging. I don’t see too much of a difference between the work culture in the US and India. My friends and colleagues who work EY India endorse this. My personal experience at Vaish was no different.

     

    Lastly, what would be your parting message for our readers?

    Law School is perhaps the best time one can have in a lifetime. Enjoy it to the fullest. At the same time, be mindful of your goals, and of what you want. Also remember that lawyers are never out of work. If the economy is doing well, there is more corporate activity like M&A, IPOs, project finance, etc.; if it slows down we get involved in a different type of legal work like distressed debts, reconstructions, hedging, asset management, etc. The problem is that our education system focuses so heavily on traditional legal courses, and so little on these more modern ones. My suggestion would be that students should focus on these areas too.