Super Lawyer

Category: Interviews

  • Priya Dixit on getting recruited as an Assistant Counsel – Legal at Johnson & Johnson

    Priya Dixit on getting recruited as an Assistant Counsel – Legal at Johnson & Johnson

    Priya Dixit graduated from ILS Law College, Pune in 2011. During law school, she interned at modest law firms and with independent practitioners in order to ensure maximum learning in diverse subjects of law. Soon after graduation, she joined Johnson and Johnson as a Legal Trainee and after 18 months of hard work, she was promoted to the ranks of Assistant Counsel – Legal.

    In this interview she talks about:

    • Studying at ILS Law College, Pune
    • Being an in-house counsel
    • Recruitment and work experience at Johnson & Johnson

     

    Our readers consist of law aspirants, law students and young lawyers. How will you introduce yourself to them?

    I am an in-house counsel for Johnson & Johnson Pvt. Ltd. (J&J) since 2011. I graduated from ILS, Pune and went on to join my current company as a Legal Trainee. I was fortunate to be the first legal trainee globally to join J&J, as it does not recruit law graduates straight out of college. Since then there has been no looking back and the learning curve has been very steep for me.

     

    Tell us a bit about your educational background. Do you have lawyers in your family?

    After High School, I opted to pursue my higher secondary studies in commerce. Interestingly, almost my entire family has an engineering background. However, my grandfather was a lawyer and his extensive library always fascinated me. After my grandfather, I am the first lawyer in my family.

     

    What motivated you to choose law as a career?

    Fortunately, my parents have always been extremely supportive of the choices I have made so far. My interest in law developed over the years while visiting my grandfather during summer vacations and observing him counsel his clients with such ease and candour. The fact that people came to him with their problems and he could provide them with a solution is what fascinated me.

     

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    How did you get through to ILS Law School, Pune?

    The admission to ILS is on the basis of your 12th grade score. ILS does not have the requirement of an entrance exam .As I enjoyed studying commerce subjects, scoring well in higher secondary was not difficult. This is how I got through ILS Law College, Pune.

     

    Which subjects did you enjoy during your qualifying degree? What about co-curricular activities?

    After commercial laws, contracts and law of evidence, I enjoyed family law the most! The complexity of family law with each religion specific provision intrigued me.

    Co-curricular activities consisted of the moot courts, research work, competitions and diplomas. For law students reading this post, don’t fret yourself on achieving a long list of co-curricular activities. Involve yourself in co-curricular activities which are of interest to you, that should provide as a good foundation.

     

    Tell us about the places you have interned at. Did you plan your internships throughout law school?

    To be very frank I don’t have a long list of prestigious internships to boast about. My internships were spread across modest firms and independent practitioners. The basic idea was to ensure maximum learning experience in diverse subjects of law as I was pretty sure about pursuing corporate law in the long run. Therefore the internships around Human Rights, Laws of Evidence, and Intellectual Property, coupled with court assistance experience gave me valuable learning skills and confidence for post qualification work.

     

    Soon after graduation, you joined Johnson & Johnson as a Law Trainee and currently work as an Assistant Counsel-Legal there. How did your appointment take place? How did your promotions happen?

    The year of my graduation, I was not a part of the group which was selected for campus placements. (Looking back I consider that as fortunate as I was not quite ready to apply and join law firms). After the euphoria of getting my law degree wore off, I applied to a few corporates as well as law firms. During this time I applied for an opening in my current Company (through an online portal) and my Resume was shortlisted for a telephonic interview. After cracking the telephonic interview which was mostly to assess my legal knowledge, I was called for two rounds of personal interview in Mumbai. The personal interviews were conducted by the HR head and the Legal Head. The personal interviews were mostly to assess my confidence and inquisitiveness to learn. The interviewers later told me that what impressed them was the fact that I demonstrated knowledge about the operations of the Company and was aware of its many brands (apart from the Johnson’s Baby Range)

    As the Company did not have a Campus Recruitment Program for law graduates, I was hired as a Trainee to assess if I could fit in the team and developed as a resource. After an exhaustive training of 18 months I was confirmed and ended up being a part of a great team which comprises of some of the best legal experts in the industry.

    On the basis of the feedback I have received from my seniors and peers in the organisation, I have been promoted twice in the last 3 years on the basis of my strong business partnering skills and energy levels demonstrated,

     

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    What do you think were the biggest hurdles and challenges in the early days of your career? How did you deal with them?

    As a law graduate the most crucial aspect was understanding the business operations. Stating what the law says is only one part of the bigger puzzle. However, I soon realized that complete understanding of the entire puzzle is important in order to foresee the legal challenges which can arise while drafting a contract or advising the business on their next big project.

    I always made sure that I have a clear understanding of the issue before giving any advice. The key is to ask as many questions as possible when in doubt. It goes without saying that as a lawyer you should be aware of the applicable law. Over and above that, know the business, understand the issue, look at it from all possible perspectives and then provide legal advice.

     

    Tell us about the nature of work you’re entrusted with and what a typical day is like. What is the most challenging aspect of your job?

    In my current profile I am entrusted with compliances around Drugs and Cosmetics Laws, Food Laws, Packaged Commodity Laws, Advertising Regulations, Competition Laws, IPR, Employment laws. etc. In addition to these, on an ad hoc basis, I also advise the business on Real Estate laws, Local Pollution and Environmental laws etc. In addition to the advisory profile I also handle the Litigation portfolio for the Consumer Division of J&J.

    I feel the most challenging aspect of my job is the expectation of instant advice. When you have a strong business connect and network within the Organisation, people just walk upto you for “quick” advice. This requires that I keep myself abreast with the amendments and constantly upscale my legal knowledge across various fields.

     

    What amount of legal work is there? What have been your failures and successes?

    There is varied work in the organisation. The variety drives away monotony and keeps me on my toes. There are regular internal trainings and presentations which keep my public speaking skills polished. (So I do not miss out on the feel of a Courtroom appearance!)

    Speaking of successes first, I feel my biggest success was when my Manager showed the confidence in me to brief a leading Senior Counsel, by myself, for an important matter in the High Court. Apart from this I have had the opportunity to handle some really complex litigations and crucial company projects. In addition to this I cherish the moment when I was awarded for my work at an Asia Pacific level.

    The learning experience, as I like to call it, were the 8 months in my career where I had to step up to handle my current profile along with the indirect tax profile.. Having no prior experience in tax laws Initially struggled at understanding the taxation concepts as well as the litigation involved. It led to certain delays and I found it difficult to prioritise work. However since then there has been no looking back and the experience taught me time management as well as performing under pressure.

     

    What are the primary professional ethics you follow while at work? How do you deal with mistakes or errors?

    Johnson & Johnson has a strong value based ethical culture. The transparency and paramount importance given to doing the right thing ensures we are not faced with any ethical conflicts and are able to work with a strong sense of passion and integrity.  As my seniors tell me, there is no mistake which cannot be corrected. On a personal front, I ensure high stake matters are reviewed by seniors and advice is not given based on incomplete knowledge.

     

    There is a phenomenal obsession amongst law students with maintaining a very high CGPA. How important according to you is this in securing a job?

    Good grades sit on your resume all your life and they are the first measure to assess you as a student / potential employee. However, I feel a more rounded personality is the need of the hour and not just a high CGPA. The plus side with Law Schools is that you get to intern early on and have the opportunity to prove your mettle. So the focus for law students should be a fair mix of giving importance to grades as well as gaining practical exposure as much as they can.

     

    Does Johnson and Johnson take interns? Please tell our readers about the process for same.

    We do not have an Internship Program for law graduates. However, given the scale of legal work involved I will definitely recommend the option of initiating a summer internship program in my company.

     

    It is believed that the work of an in-house counsel is restricted compared to that of a law firm lawyer but the latter has less (or no) work-life balance. Do you think this is true?

    I feel the in house work is mostly structured and with a little planning, work-life balance is achievable. In law firm practice, as I understand from my peers, as the day is divided between courts appearances and office work as well as research work, the work life balance maybe difficult to achieve. However, students starting off their career should give more importance to the quality of work in the initial years and learning the nuances of the trade. Work-life balance can be eventually worked out.

     

    Where do you see yourself five years from now? Would you consider going for an LL.M. abroad?

    I see myself gaining more exposure and growth in the industry. To steepen my learning curve is my highest priority. An LL.M does sound very attractive for qualitative addition of a qualification after a modest amount of work experience. However, many other aspects need to be considered before opting for a foreign degree. I have still not made up my mind about it.

     

    What would be your parting message to law students?

    There is no fixed formula for success. So don’t lose heart if you did not get through to the National Schools or bag the best internships or get a PPO. Just make sure that whatever you choose to pursue, you do it to the best of your ability. Nobody expects you to be an authority on each and every aspect of law. Know your flair and know it damn well. This achieved, the right attitude coupled with never ending curiosity and patience should always work in your favour!

    Also for students pursuing law in Pune, do not miss out on Barman’s pitcher and some delicious food at Arthur’s Theme!

     

  • Neha Mahyavanshi, Senior Legal Counsel, SAP, on work experience as in-house counsel and in law firms

    Neha Mahyavanshi, Senior Legal Counsel, SAP, on work experience as in-house counsel and in law firms

    Neha Mahyavanshi graduated from National Academy of Legal Studies and Research University, Hyderabad in 2006. She received a pre-placement offer from Amarchand & Mangaldas & Suresh A Shroff & Co. and joined it after graduation. Thereafter, she worked at Wipro Ltd. as Assistant Legal Manager before joining SAP as Senior Legal Counsel-India Subcontinent. In this interview she talks about:

    • Law school experience at NALSAR
    • Working at AMSS and Wipro
    • Being an in-house counsel at SAP

     

    How would you introduce yourself? Tell us a bit about your pre-college years. What motivated you to study law?

    I am primarily a technology lawyer with in-house experience of about 8 years. I grew up in Bangalore and then went on to study law in Hyderabad.  In school, I often took part in debate contests and won a couple of inter school contests. So, I thought that a career in law was apt for me. Also, around the time that I was in 12th standard, there was a lot of talk about law schools, and so I got hooked to the idea of joining a law school.

     

    How would you describe your time at National Academy of Legal Studies and Research University, Hyderabad? How important do you think that extra-curricular activities are to a law student?

    My time at NALSAR was fun, but more importantly, a great training ground for young lawyers to learn to cope in a competitive environment that was to continue and get more intense after college. Yes, I did take part in many extra-curricular activities. I was one of the trio that organized the first ever ‘Carpe Diem’ (NALSAR’s Intra-college fest) and was always a part of the organising committee for ‘Summons’ (NALSAR’s inter-college fest). In my final year, I was elected the Convenor of the Cultural Committee. That’s the year we organized the first ever music concert at NALSAR, with Indian Ocean performing at ‘Summons, 2005’

     

    Tell us about your objectives while in the preliminary years of Law College. What were your plans after graduation?

    I always planned to be an in-house lawyer. I had the chance to intern twice at Wipro during my years at NALSAR. I was totally drawn to the work environment, the balance and professionalism that a corporate environment offered.

     

    Looking back, how significant do you think that your legal education was? When did you happen to experience the learning curve?

    The education that I received at NALSAR must surely have been one of the best. I say this because I often encounter lawyers who don’t seem to have the basic principles of law sorted out. I can say for myself that our professors did a great job. The legal education that I received in NALSAR was a great foundation for my career.

     

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    Please tell us about your experience with regard to your first year of work at AMSS.

    I was taken into AMSS by way of a pre-placement offer. I was taken in as a part of the private equity team and did what all A1s do- due diligences and helping out with the drafting of SHAs and SSAs. While at the firm, I also worked in other practice areas, specifically in the general corporate practice, gaining experience in incorporation of companies and drafting resolutions.

    My biggest take away from AMSS are the drafting skills. All documents, including emails, were drafted with a great deal of care. You don’t often see people paying attention to fonts, justifying or spell checking documents in a corporate set up.

     

    Please tell us about the requisite soft skills which are essential for a young lawyer to build a successful career?

    I was often told by my managers that I am easy to get along with. I guess, being generally congenial has always worked for me.

     

    How was your experience of being an Assistant Legal Manager at Wipro Ltd.? How was the work pressure?

    My years at Wipro were simply great. Wipro Legal in Bangalore is the global headquarters and there is always a lot going on. I see my experience at Wipro as a very solid foundation for my future career aspirations. Wipro is a great training ground for someone who is looking for an in-house career. Wipro allowed for a perfect balance between personal and professional time. I was always excited to go to work every morning (I guess, that says a lot). The biggest positive point in an in-house role is that one enjoys the flexibility of managing one’s own work.

     

    Do you feel that there are differences between students of ‘elite’ law schools and students from other law colleges and traditional universities?

    From my limited experience, I must say that to some degree there is a difference between students of ‘elite’ law schools and other traditional universities in the beginning. I see this difference, not in the passion or dedication that the student brings in, but in the understanding of law and working methodology- which evidently is due to the difference in the quality of legal education. However, a few years into their careers, the difference between the ‘elite’ law school student versus the traditional law university student no longer exists. It’s the passion that one brings to work that makes the difference in the long run.

     

    How did you get to work at SAP as Senior Legal Counsel – India subcontinent? Please share with us your journey from your induction into the company till date?

    SAP was looking to add to their then four-member legal Team in India and I guess I fit the bill. SAP is an enterprise software product company headquartered in Germany. The legal work and work methodology at SAP is different from Wipro. So, initially I had a lot of learning to do. But once you get a hang of how things work here and understand what the commonly used abbreviations and acronyms mean, you are good to go. SAP promotes a great work culture. People are very approachable and the organization is very flat, making the work environment very pleasant. But we have our crunch time during quarter-ends and year ends when most of our business comes in.

    My experience at SAP has been great so far, and I look forward to many more years here. SAP pays attention to each individual’s personal growth, which makes it a great place to stick around.

     

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    Please tell us a bit about your work profile at SAP. What is a normal workday like at SAP?

    I am a part of the four member legal team in India. The SAP India legal team provides an overall support to the organization including sales, operations, purchasing office and admin. The SAP field lawyers in India (like myself) spend a lot of time bridging the gap between local Indian legal practices and SAP’s standard terms of operation. Every day is a new day at work, we have plenty of challenges that keep things interesting.

    There is a lot of work and exposure in SAP, on a typical day I might be on a call negotiating contract with a customer or vendor, drafting order forms, providing opinions to the business, discussing deal structures with finance and pricing teams, drafting notices or responses to customers, discussing litigation strategy for a case in court or just helping an account executive draft a communication to his client. We are very well connected to all aspects of the business and get involved with all the internal departments.

     

    What kind of legal work is there? Are you allowed to interact with clients?

    Ninety nine percent of the legal work of the company is handled by the in-house legal team. There is tons of legal work (like I described above). SAP India legal team interacts with SAP’s customers all the time. We never outsource any customer facing work to law firms.

     

    How much of work is outsourced to law firms? How a law firm is selected for the same?

    Very little work is outsourced, which is primarily litigation. Other than that, we sometimes require external opinions on some matters where we do not have expertise, such as telecom or real estate. In such matters alone we approach external law firms.

    The law firm is selected based on their expertise. We only choose from the top law firms, depending on the practice area.

     

    Would you say that there exists a difference in the working environment of a law firm and legal department of a company?

    Yes, there does. My experiences of working in a law firm (though for a short while) and an in-house department has been very different from each other.

     

    Have you ever considered litigation or starting up on your own?

    I never considered litigation because I always wanted to be an in-house lawyer.

    Though I have not considered it myself, I know many in-house counsels who have started their own firms.

     

    What are the primary essentials of a corporate lawyer? How do you say a fresh graduate can work on building these skills?

    I don’t have a list of essentials for a corporate lawyer. A degree in law and the right attitude is all one needs. Also, I think doing the right internships while at college is important. Internships allow for two way assessment. The student gets a feel of the work place and also gets a chance to create an impression with the organizations that she/he is interning at.

     

    If you could list out 3 activities which on a scale of priority, should be at the top in any law student’s life (given that he wants to secure the same set of achievements as you), what would those be?

    Ensuring decent grades;

    Corporate Internships (including in-house and law firm); and

    Taking on leadership roles in student organizations and participating in extra-curricular activities.

     

    What would be your advice to young law students? How do you think that they should approach their career?

    Passion for your work is the one most important ingredient for success, I think I said this a couple of times through the interview. The other, of course, is hard work. Everything flows and falls into place if one is passionate and willing to slog it out. So, to young law students, I would say- out of the fifty odd courses that you study and the various internships that you take up, try to spot what you are passionate about and start working on it from the time you are in college. Whatever the field of interest, stay true to it and build on it by way of internships and writing articles etc. If you choose a clear path, it may be easier to get a headstart to a great career.

  • Pranay Agrawala, Ex-Law-firmite on starting up with Lex Adista and experience in litigation

    Pranay Agrawala, Ex-Law-firmite on starting up with Lex Adista and experience in litigation

    Pranay Agrawala is a Symbiosis graduate who had interned at Dua Associates and Ernst & Young among others. Upon graduating, he joined Khaitan, Jayakar, Sud & Vohra as an Associate after which he joined Trilegal and worked there for three more years. Thereafter he started a private litigation practice. He subsequently joined the Chambers of Senior Advocate, Mr. Siddharth Luthra (former ASG) before starting his own law firm, Lex Adista. In this interview he talks about:

    • Interning at the Supreme Court, Dua Associates and E&Y
    • Working at KJSV, Trilegal and Chambers of Mr. Luthra
    • Experience and challenges at a startup law firm

     

    Tell us a bit about your childhood and pre-college life as well as educational background. Did you have lawyers in your family?

    During my childhood my family moved around quite a lot and I had the benefit of experiencing different cultures and becoming comfortable with varied thought processes and customs. This has been one of the biggest parts of my school education and has proved to be invaluable in my growth. I never had any lawyers in my family and throughout my childhood, I didn’t have any interactions with lawyers either. The profession was a mystery to me until I joined Symbiosis and did my first internship, with Mr. Dushyant Dave no less.

     

    Tell us something about your college life? What activities did you participate in?

    During college like most teenagers I concentrated on enjoying my life. I travelled, played sports all day etc., but now I feel that I missed out in participating in law school centric events. Having never been guided properly as to what would help me grow as a lawyer, I never benefitted from all the things a good law school has to offer. It was only towards my later years in college, especially after some serious internships, when I realised the value of extra-curricular activities, like mooting and client counselling, writing research papers etc.

     

    What were your areas of interest during your graduation? How did you go about developing acumen in these areas?

    Law school, is not geared towards exposing a student to the ‘practice’ of law; Theory and understanding statutes, philosophy etc. were given a significant focus. I still feel that the course design and structure lacked the foresight that is conducive to learning Law. Thinking back, subjects like jurisprudence, history of courts, administrative law seemed mundane and uninteresting because of a lack of perspective, but the knowledge of such subjects is greatly beneficial to practising law. Interests for me were mostly found through internships where exposure to the various practice areas made me realise the beauty of the English language; the immense application of intellect required in drafting statutes, contracts or any legal document; the sheer application of intelligence that can make the difference between a good lawyer and spectacular lawyering; and most importantly the power of knowledge. Practice areas in law became secondary to me, just the thrill of the practice of law was paramount.

     

    What kind of internships did you do in your law school? Which internships will you consider to be right at the top and why?

    Having had little or no exposure to the profession prior to going to law school, I realised the value of internships only by the third year. Despite having interned in every break, I really started absorbing the nuances of being a lawyer towards the end of the second year. Thereafter, I tried to intern at as many different organizations as possible. I interned at the Supreme Court, Dua Associates, Ernst & Young and many other firms. The reason for this was so I could find my practice area and an environment that I would feel drawn to. Although this approach had its downsides with respect to securing a job right after law school, I needed to know I was doing what I liked. An internship where I really felt like I was a lawyer was at E&Y. I feel it was a combination of maturity as a student and the good opportunities and structure at E&Y. From that point on I knew that I can be a good lawyer.

     

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    Did you learn any skills while interning? What are these skills and how did you acquire them?

    Like I have mentioned above, I learned everything that I knew about being a lawyer from internships and not only from law school. During internships, notably at Dua Associates, I realised that if you desire to learn, you have to have a combination of enthusiasm (not to a point of being nauseating to associates) and hard work. The better you assist your bosses the more they want to work with you. Observe, take extensive notes, ask the right questions and don’t be afraid to be called stupid (as long as you don’t ask the same question twice); these cannons were what helped me learn at internships and I also maintain these till date. One can learn much by just paying attention.

    Needless to say, I benefitted a lot from lawyers who were happy to explain concepts and teach a young aspiring lawyer. I have many to thank for my legal education, beyond college and till today.

     

    What do you have to say about mooting at law school and legal writing for journals? Do they have any ‘bonus’ value when seeking jobs?

    Like I said before, mooting, legal writing, etc. are very important. Participating in these extra-curriculars helps build confidence and skills, which are basic skills every lawyer needs to master, and like any other thing – sooner is definitely better. I gained most of this, under extreme pressure, while working and regretted not having honed these skills in college. Although, it’s a trade off for students, whether to be entirely entrenched in college or to go out and explore the world and experience life during college. Considering the nature of our profession, college is often the last opportunity to expand your horizons.

    While seeking a job, it can make the difference between getting hired and passed over. It also makes a difference in the initial upward growth as someone with a certain degree of skill may be at an advantage.

     

    Upon graduating, you started working at Khaitan, Jayakar, Sud & Vohra (“KJSV”) as an Associate. How did you secure your appointment? Please describe the interview and induction procedure for a fresher?

    By the time I interned at KJSV, I had gained a lot of focus in what is expected from a lawyer. My natural attitude and approach to matters was noticed and I was able to convert that into a job opportunity. Also, the fact that my focus was on learning and gaining exposure meant that a smaller law firm was a great place to start, and was consequently easier to break into. In my personal view, in the beginning of the career a smaller law firm generally places more trust in you and consequently, bestows larger responsibility, helping you learn faster.

     

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    After having worked at Khaitan & Jayakar  for a year, how did the shift to Trilegal take place? Please tell us a little about your work experience and life at Trilegal.

    Given the fact that I wanted to have an all round experience in Law, after one year of practice on the civil side of litigation, I started to seek opportunities in law firms with a corporate profile. My search began a few months before the shift and I was willing to forego pay and position within the organization for a chance to gain exposure. Trilegal gave me an opportunity and I leaped at it, making the change to corporate and M&A. The shift was not easy and the expectations were often overwhelming. Trilegal is of course a great place to work and has a highly motivated team of lawyers, who never cease to set the bar of performance higher. The most important learning I took away from Trilegal was the attention to detail and research that needs to go behind any advice or action of a legal professional. As a lawyer, one is only as good as the knowledge he brings to the table, whether it be the negotiating table or the bar. This fact was driven home daily at Trilegal. I still put the same amount of attention to detail and set the bar of research very high in my own practice and with my associates.

     

    You left one of the finest law firms in India and started your own independent private practice. What were your reasons for moving from a corporate setting to litigation?

    I had not left Trilegal to start a litigation practice, but soon realised that to start a corporate practice I would have to create some credibility in the market as also become a brand on my own, so to speak. Having left the firm with a few clients (my own and not from Trilegal) already available to me, I had a steady stream of work which unfortunately lasted for only short while, and was ultimately not sustainable. Litigation is a practice more geared towards individual lawyers seeking clients and creating a presence in the profession, I simply had to shift practice areas to survive.

     

    After a few months of  your independent practice, you  have  joined  the Chambers of  Senior Advocate, Mr. Siddharth Luthra, where you have  worked for almost one year. Please tell us about your experience working under the  supervision of  Mr. Luthra.

    Like I have explained above, I needed to expand my practice to stay afloat independently. Mr. Luthra was extremely kind to me and gave me an opportunity to join his chamber while he was ASG. This proved to be a baptism by fire, as the office of the ASG was extremely busy and the intensity was only exacerbated by Mr. Luthra’s insatiable appetite for work. I did feel that I was at a slight advantage, having come from Trilegal and being adjusted to intense timelines and high expectations. Bringing my law firm approach to Mr. Luthra’s chamber helped me transition easily with respect to what was expected of me.

    I likened my stint with Mr. Luthra as a sort of LL.M, where I learned the finer nuances of the practice from a seasoned and highly successful Senior Advocate. I tried to grab as much work as possible to maximize my learning and also to increase my exposure to Mr. Luthra. Court craft, legal drafting, framing arguments and managing clients’ expectations as an individual lawyer were some of areas where I focused my attention. Exposure to the Supreme Court and representing the Union of India were an icing on the cake.

     

    Please tell us about your experience with regard to your first few sessions in court. Has it become more difficult for a fresher to achieve success?

    After completing roughly an LL.M’s worth of time learning from Mr. Luthra, I once again took the tough decision to go independent and start a practice. This time, however, I was better prepared and more mature. I did not limit myself to litigation or corporate law as I felt that I was capable of providing clients with both facets of professional services. Appearing in court is a nerve racking experience at first, no matter how well prepared you are, stage fright does kick in. Keeping a calm demeanour and retaining your presence of mind, while having the eyes of all your peers on you is not an easy task. Being extremely well prepared and keeping easily understandable, well structured notes was of great help and still is.

    Success is never easy. Those who say they got it easy are either being modest, or will have to struggle at some point to retain the success. The harder you work, the more opportunities for ‘success’ will become available to you. In the end though, success is relative.

     

    Your main area of practice consists of  corporate/civil advisory and litigation. Please elaborate on the cases you normally deal with and how has been your experience so far.

    Coming from the varied background that I do, I afford my clients a unique perspective to legal issues and advisory. At a given time, I feel comfortable taking care of regulatory compliances and commercial work, while at the same time I can advise on dispute resolution and litigation. I feel that this gives my clients a great deal of comfort, especially when it come to handling contractual disputes which require the ability to assess and understand complex SHAs or EPC contracts and to be able to build an effective strategy.

    Presently, I have a bouquet of technology and engineering companies as my clients. This is a sector of industry which has always been of interest to me and being a product of the internet age, clients find it easier to interact with me with respect to the technological aspects of commercial contracts. Of course, having a working knowledge of the internet, computer systems and engineering goes a long way in impressing a client, who then does not have to waste precious man hours in briefing their lawyers on how technology works. Relying on this unique blend which I feel I bring to the profession, I have today managed to start my own law firm, we are called Lex Adista and are a full service law firm. I represent the firm in corporate and commercial matters while my partners handle civil and criminal litigation/disputes.

     

    What were the difficulties you faced in the early days of your practice? How difficult would you say it is to build a reputed practice? How many years of hard work does it require to build a firm clientele?

    The difficulties are not far from what one would imagine. Finding clients in an industry which is teeming with talented and hard working professionals is not an easy task. To be able to sustain a steady stream of work, turning it around and finding more work to keep you going is a daily struggle. The quality of work is what ultimately decides whether your practice will be successful or not, and maintaining that quality is essential. I will give you the exact number of years it takes to build a successful law firm when I feel Lex Adista is a success.

     

    Did you build everlasting relation with your clients? Please share some of your secret tips on how to boost fiduciary relations with the people we serve?

    Having great interpersonal skills and managing client expectations are the basics for building everlasting relationships with clients. However, to maintain an everlasting professional relationship you have to provide top notch, intelligent legal advice. At the end of the day, the quality of your services and professionalism is what makes clients stick with you.

     

    What is your workday like? Are there new challenges every day or did work fall into a predictable pattern?

    My workday is quite varied. As a partner in a small start up law firm, each day I have to give equal importance to internal management, business development, client interaction and at the same time produce deliverables for clients. While it may be tiring, it’s never tiresome.

    We are constantly trying to pick up new work and are not confined to any particular sector. We even advise musicians, artists, startups, designers and other creative professionals who help keep the work exciting. Sometimes, as a bonus we even get passes to upcoming events for the associates!

     

    If someone does not go to a top law school, would you say he still has a shot at a great career in law?

    Of course! A lawyer never stops learning. One is always learning on the job and what a lawyer makes of his opportunities is what creates the opportunity of having a great career. Never stop working and focus on learning, this is the advice I would give to anyone who wants to grow. I too will never stop following this.

     

    When you hire interns and associates under you, what kind of qualities do you look for? What should an intern or aspiring lawyer do to get noticed in a positive way?

    At Lex Adista, and particularly under me, we focus on an appetite for learning. I love to share knowledge and find that a heated discussion based on research is a great way to find solutions for legal issues. Attention to detail and being able to present a legal argument with proper justification is the basics of any lawyering. For an intern to get noticed or for that matter for an associate to get hired, I look for individuals with a thorough approach. Any point of law can be explained on the basis of solid research and reasoning, reliance on judicial pronouncements, commentaries and the application these to the facts of the matter at hand. Creativity and a willingness to learn are essential in my book.

     

    Where do you see yourself and your firm in five to ten years?

    We are presently trying to build a successful law firm. Currently, we are looking at expanding, both, our lawyer base and our client base and hope to do each aggressively. At the same time, we are conscious of the fact that our quality and focus should not get diluted in the process. Perhaps, it is too soon for me to predict where Lex Adista will be in five to ten years, but where I would want it to be is quite clear in my head.

     

    What would be your parting message to law students who want to litigate just after graduation?

    For any aspiring litigator, the most important advice I can give is to focus on gathering a variety of experience and to look for opportunities to learn. For a successful litigation practice having exposure to every field of law is very valuable, and can be gained in the earlier years of practice easier than later. I too pushed myself to constantly be involved in different practice areas of Law to build an all round understanding of the practice. Getting attached to big names and going after CV value can sometimes backfire, when you realise after some years of practice you may have learned very little. A lawyer is a sum total of his experience, while frequent changes can be detrimental to getting hired, knowledge and experience will always shine through.

     

  • Ila Haldia, Advocate, Supreme Court, on starting out with civil and criminal litigation at Supreme Court

    Ila Haldia, Advocate, Supreme Court, on starting out with civil and criminal litigation at Supreme Court

    Ila Haldia graduated from Government Law College, Mumbai in 2013. She has an enviable academic record and has an excellent series of internships at top law firms including DSK Legal, Trilegal, AMSS, Khaitan & Co., AZB & Partners etc. She started practising at the Supreme Court of India soon after graduation. She is currently practising general civil and criminal litigation at the Supreme Court under the tutelage of Dr. J.N. Dubey, Senior Advocate, Supreme Court.

    In this interview, she talks about:

    • Law school experience at GLC, Mumbai
    • Choosing litigation over corporate law
    • Practising at the Supreme Court

     

    What brought you into legal studies?

    Hi, I am Ila Haldia. I am currently practising at the Supreme Court under the tutelage of Dr. J.N. Dubey, Senior Advocate, Supreme Court. Unlike many, my journey in legal studies began quite unexpectedly. I was a science student and never considered law as a career option. However, while studying science, I realised that engineering was not my cup of tea and so I decided to look for other options. In the pursuit of looking for alternate options, I met many people from different professions and through this process, I met a few lawyers. Having interacted with these lawyers, I felt drawn to the profession since I was impressed by the kind of knowledge they possessed and their command over their thought process and so I decided to pursue law. My parents were supportive of this decision of mine and thought that law would be a career suitable to my abilities.

     

    Tell us about your years in law school. What made your journey with GLC worth it?

    To be honest, it took me a year to get used to GLC. Initially, I was a little lost and wasn’t sure whether I had made the right decision. But slowly, I started getting into the groove as law started rubbing on to me. In addition to law, I had some amazing friends and seniors who helped me through thick and thin. One thing that anyone studying at GLC encounters is the ubiquitous phrase: “GLC is like a buffet which serves the best of dishes but it is up to you to choose the dishes”. At first, I never quite understood this phrase, but now when I look back, I realise that GLC is quite like such a buffet. The curriculum at GLC gave us the freedom to shape our careers according to our own accord. We had all the options and guidance available but none of which was imposed. So it really came down to individual choices. Many used this freedom to nurture their careers the others used it otherwise. It is this sense of freedom and space that made GLC absolutely worth it and stand apart from all other law colleges!

     

    Which internships that you have pursued will you consider to be right at the top and why? Tell us about some interesting internship experiences.

    Interestingly, I have had internships at many big law firms, but to me the most memorable has been one at a small firm in Bombay. We were a team of 5-6 lawyers/law students and as such the work responsibilities were not differentiated between lawyers and law students and therefore it was a really good learning experience for me. I remember my very first assignment at this firm was to assist an associate in drafting a reply to a very complex 30 pages show cause notice from the customs authority. As luck would have it, the associate I was supposed to assist was caught up with other work as a result of which the responsibility fell on my shoulders to draft the reply. Upon reviewing the draft, my senior was very impressed with my drafting skills and rewarded me for having completed this difficult task all by myself without having any prior drafting experience. Thus, I learnt that it is important to keep doing whatever work comes your way, no matter how big or small. If one keeps working and keeps doing, he/she will find an area where his/her interests lie. So look for internships which provide you work across the platform and be ready to seize whatever opportunity comes your way.

     

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    Soon after graduation, you started practicing before the Supreme Court of India. Did you ever plan to join a corporate law firm? Do you plan to pursue litigation from now onwards?

    Somehow, at first every law student’s aim is to land the highest paying job and since such packages are mostly offered by corporate law firms the aim is to get into such law firms. I was also party to this type of thinking and in fact tried to get internships in all the big law firms in their corporate department. But slowly, as I got more involved in the “corporate culture” I realised that this was not my calling. There was always this uncertainty in my head regarding corporate law since it did not involve court work. So through this process of elimination, I decided to pursue litigation and was most fortunate to get the opportunity to work at the Supreme Court of India. However, I am not restricted to the Supreme Court only, I also appear before other courts and tribunals.

    As far as my future plans are concerned, I don’t believe in long term planning. My philosophy is to do what is in hand and let’s see where it takes me. Having said that, I do hope to start my independent practice in the coming future.

     

    What are you main practice areas? How has been your experience so far?

    We are into general civil and criminal litigation. The experience so far has been extremely enriching and has broadened my horizons. I have not only matured as a lawyer but also as an individual. Litigation has taught me to have a structured thought process, improvise and think on my feet.

     

    What is your workday like? Which would be the most memorable case you argued on?

    In litigation, there is a lot of work. From morning till evening the whole day is consumed in courtrooms and chambers. So one needs to be sure that they like the work and also the work environment or else it becomes overwhelming and stressful. There are times when we have to appear in court without having a complete idea about the case and these situations help in learning how to filter irrelevant information and how to improvise in front of the judge.

    There was an early hearing application which I had to argue before a three judge bench headed by the then CJI Justice Lodha. Usually, early hearing applications are only heard on the point of urgency and the merits of the case are not argued, however on that particular day Justice Lodha decided to hear the cases on merits and took all the lawyers, including me, appearing in early hearing applications off-guard. Since, my case was listed as item 9, I hardly had the time to read through the entire file and so when my case was called out it all boiled down to improvising and succinctly putting forth the arguments which ultimately helped me in winning the case. The profession requires one to think clearly and quickly which only comes with constant practice and observation.

    The best part about litigation is that there is hardly anything predictable except for the fact that you have to work constantly. Another memorable case that I have argued was one before the National Consumer Disputes Redressal Commission. The case related to claim of insurance by a bus owner, however, the said case had been dismissed in default and we had filed the restoration application after delay of 2 and half years! After 2-3 hearings of immense grilling, the matter was finally restored however, the same was dismissed on merits. However, the presiding judge acknowledged my hard work and made a mention of the same in the judgment itself! Thus, despite the adverse order against my client, it was an achievement for me since my hard work had been acknowledged.

     

    How necessary is it to have a mentor/guide to handhold a young lawyer while still in the formative years of litigation?

    It is extremely important to have a mentor in litigation. I couldn’t have come this far without my senior. There is so much to learn in practice that it can become overwhelming. Having a mentor gives one support and structure to the learning curve of a young lawyer. Making mistakes is inevitable and only a mentor can help in minimising and dealing with them.

     

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    What are the difficulties people face in their early days of practice? How is it turning out for you? How many years of hard work does it require to build a firm clientele?

    Initially, the responsibility of handling even a single case seemed overwhelming. I remember even drafting an entire petition seemed like a huge task to me but now with constant practice, the process has eased and now I am able to research the law, draft the petition and argue the matter in court. Same goes with arguing in court, initially it was terrifying to even take a ‘pass-over’ but now with passage of time and experience that initial hesitation has also vanished.

    A lot of people say that lawyers who don’t have a family legacy will find it very difficult to build a reputed practice. This may be true to some extent, but from what I have gathered, any lawyer who puts in even a reasonable amount of hard work is sure to go a long way in litigation. It may take some time, which may differ from lawyer to lawyer, but the hard work does pay off which is why there are so many successful first generation lawyers

     

    A lot of law students prefer corporate jobs over a career in litigation. What is your take on this? Is it better to work in the corporate sector for a few years before starting litigation?

    Well, I feel it’s a personal choice. If the interest of a law student lies in corporate law then by all means he/she should pursue it, however, I do not recommend seeking a corporate job only because of the perquisites that it offers. Initially it may be exciting but with passage of time, money does not bring job satisfaction which may lead to frustration. Many law students, do not opt for litigation/counsel practice because of low salaries. It is true that in the initial years the money is not as much in litigation but if one puts in a sincere amount of hard work then there is no looking back.

     

    What would be your parting message to law students who want to litigate just after graduation?

    As a lawyer in litigation, keep working hard and be patient. It takes years for a bamboo seed to start growing but once it shoots, the growth is exponential. So don’t get dismayed if the results don’t show. Have faith in your abilities and clarity in your thoughts.

    Also my message to all law students who are struggling to find their path, would be to just go with the flow and keep doing whatever comes your way and enjoy your college life!

  • Nipun Bhatia, Senior Consultant, Legal League Consulting, on work experience in Law Firm Management and being a C.A.

    Nipun Bhatia, Senior Consultant, Legal League Consulting, on work experience in Law Firm Management and being a C.A.

    Nipun Bhatia is a Senior Consultant with Legal League Consulting, India’s first management consultants to the global legal industry. After graduating in B.Com he pursued LL.B from Faculty of Law, Delhi University, and graduated in law in 2008. Besides being a lawyer, he is also a qualified Chartered Accountant. He has worked with Lall & Sethi Advocates as their Senior Manager – Finance, Administration & Human Resource Development. He has done a Post Graduate Certification Course in IPR from Indian Society of International Law.

    In this interview he talks about:

    • Pursuing C.A. and law
    • Working at Legal League Consulting
    • Law firm management and Enterprise Resource Planning (ERP)

     

    Please introduce yourself to our readers.

    I am a Senior Consultant with Legal League Consulting, India’s First Management Consultants to the Global Legal Industry. While I deal with all aspects of Law Firm Management, my core areas of expertise include Finance, Human Resource Management and Enterprise Resource Planning. Besides being a lawyer, I am a qualified Chartered Accountant, which explains the interest in finance and number crunching. Prior to joining Legal League Consulting, I have worked with Lall & Sethi Advocates (now Singh & Singh Lall & Sethi), a leading IPR Firm, as their Senior Manager – Finance, Administration & Human Resource Development. My first job, however, was with an Ad Agency, which was a subsidiary of Future Group.

     

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    When did you think you were suited to a career in law? How did you get through to Faculty of Law, University of Delhi?

    While studying for the Chartered Accountancy course, our curriculum included studying various laws and to my surprise I used to enjoy studying them. Reading of Acts and their practical application generated a lot of interest and I decided to give the LL.B. Entrance Test after getting through the Intermediate level of CA Course. Surprisingly, I cleared the test and made up my mind to pursue the course. Also, on a lighter note, the family used to always complain that I have this habit of arguing and sharing my views upfront in every matter, so lawyer is the best suited career option for me! Once I got through, they realized that I had taken it a tad too seriously!

     

    After your graduation, you have pursued a Post Graduate Certification Course in IPR from Indian Society of International Law. Was it a professional requirement to enhance your career?

    From college days itself, I found IPR to be a very interesting area of law and something which a common man relates to. Reading about Trademarks, Infringements, and Counterfeits etc. intrigued me and I decided to take up the Certification Course, in order to have a longer stint with the subject. At ISIL, I thoroughly enjoyed the class room sessions since the faculty encouraged live discussions and took up real life case studies. Out of the sheer interest and due to such fabulous class room training, I worked very hard on the project submissions. It also helped in studying diligently, which earned me not only the highest score in the entire batch, but also a gold medal which is my prized possession till date.

     

    What were your areas of interest during your graduation? How did you go about developing expertise and knowledge in these areas?

    As mentioned above, during the LL.B. course, I had begun to like IPR a lot. Apart from IPR, I meticulously studied for Jurisprudence as it explained a lot about evolution of law and the rationale behind it. I still remember that my notes used to be photocopied by colleagues and juniors since I used to make very neat hand-written notes, after referring to a lot of books and doing my own research. Till then, the use of typed notes and e-mails was not very common.

    Another subject that was very interesting was Family Law. Being a Hindu, we have always been exposed to Hindu Customs and Practices. Thus, when we were introduced to nuances of Muslim Law, I found it very interesting to read.

     

    You have also managed to pursue Chartered Accountancy. Tell us why did you chose to do it and what is the utility of having a qualified CA degree in your domain?

    Chartered Accountancy came into the picture because my mother always wanted me to take it up as a career. When I cleared Senior Secondary Examination, I managed to score in decent eighties in Accountancy (99.99% score was not the norm at that time, as it is now). So I was told that I should pursue Chartered Accountancy since I have scored decently well and the subject is not that hard as compared to any other pure mathematics based option. So I just filled the form and cleared the Foundation Examination after nine months of study. It was only when I entered the Intermediate level that I realized that it is anything but easy!

    It requires a very disciplined approach towards studies and a belief that one should never ever give up. While I would always jokingly tell the young aspiring students that one should not take up CA as a career choice since it is a very demanding commitment, I would also like to outline here that all the hard work put in through the number of years of studies and all the sacrifices made during this course are really worth it! The kind of respect this profession earns you makes every sacrifice made during the course of journey worthwhile.

     

    What were the biggest challenges in the first year of your graduation? How did you deal with them?

    I did my law graduation from Law Centre – II of Delhi University, the classes of which are held in the evening. Being an evening college, it was a favoured choice for a lot of Govt. Servants and people who have already achieved a stature in life. In the first year, it had a mixed effect on me. I used to feel intimidated by the presence of such stalwarts beside me since all of them were very intellectual and would pose lot of questions in the class. I was also hesitant to make friends with them due to the age gap. However, over the period of time, as the interaction increased, I figured out that there is lot to learn from them. The fact that they were willing to work hard at that age and gain further knowledge despite being successful professionals motivated me to a very large extent. They were not only friendly, but were very helping and tolerant towards our generation.

     

    You have worked for a short period of time with a premier Apparel Brand and got to hone your creative skills over there. How did your appointment take place? What worked for you in securing this job?

    This, being my first job, will always hold a very special position in my life. I was shortlisted through a famous online job portal and was selected after a couple of rounds of interview. After the initial few hiccups, I developed a comfort level with the Managing Director of the Company and worked under him directly. My finance background and my legal knowledge both helped in securing the job since it involved a lot of work with respect to drafting of contracts and agreements, along with regular Financial MIS Reporting. Also, the experience gained during the internships helped a lot since I was able to put the knowledge to practical testing.

     

    Before moving to Legal League Consulting, you have worked with a leading IPR Law Firm as a Senior Manager – Finance, Administration & HR Development for three years. What kind of responsibilities were you entrusted with?

    Getting a job with Lall & Sethi (now Singh & Singh Lall & Sethi) was a path breaking move in my life. Ms. Bithika Anand (Founder & CEO of Legal League Consulting and under whom I work currently) was entrusted with the responsibility of finding a Finance person for the Firm.

    Through a consultant she interviewed me and found me apt for the role. Besides CA and LL.B., my certification from ISIL in IPR field also favoured me in getting selected for this role. Since the day I was appointed at the Firm, there was no looking back. Under superb training from Mr. Chander M. Lall, who is a visionary and legend in himself, I was given one challenging role after the other.

    Thus, while I joined them as a Finance Manager, within a short span of two years I was promoted to Senior Manager – Finance, Administration & Human Resource Development. Had it not been for the fantastic grooming I was given under Mr. Lall, I would have still been just an accountant! Also, it is very important to mention here that being a fitness freak, Mr. Lall is an inspiration for a lot of youngsters like me. I joined the Firm as an accountant who weighed 92 Kgs and slowly got into fitness after being inspired by him. Thus, in less than a year, I was able to knock off almost 25 Kgs from my weight. I would not be exaggerating if I say that the Firm and its wonderful people brought a 360 degree turn in my personality.

     

    How did you decide to work with Legal League Consulting?

    I think I have been very fortunate to meet just the right people in my life. As mentioned above, I was initially interviewed by Ms. Bithika Anand, who placed me with Lall & Sethi. I was very sure that whenever I would decide to move on, I would go back to her. Her dynamic personality almost instantaneously surrounds you with a positive and energetic aura. Hence, it was always in my mind to work with her. So when I planned to shift my base to Mumbai, I got in touch with her. At that time Legal League Consulting was already very well known in the fraternity and I almost immediately liked the kind of work the Firm was doing. While later my plans to shift base to Mumbai were shelved, Ms. Anand took me on board and I was given assignments of handling some leading law firms within Delhi. I must also mention that coming on board with LLC was a seamless transition. Right from the very first day I was entrusted with Client Handling and Ms. Anand allowed absolute creative freedom to us in handling the mandates. The colleagues at LLC gave a hearty welcome and were more than willing to help. I always tell Bithika Ma’am that coming back to work with her at LLC was the much destined ‘Home Coming’ for me.

     

    LLC is the first law firm management company in Indian legal industry. Can you tell us something about the kind of work LLC does?

    Legal League Consulting takes pride in being a one-stop solution to all Law Firm Management needs. We assist firms in areas of strategy, acquisition, compensation benchmarking, performance appraisals, human resource management systems, employee retention, partner reward system, training, recruitment, branding and business development, knowledge management, and IT solutions amongst other services.

    Apart from this, we are also actively involved in exploring and securing strategic alliances between law firms. Since more and more firms are moving towards institutionalizing themselves, we play an important role in structuring of firms. We have also been involved in setting systems and processes in place for LPOs and Legal Departments in Corporates.

     

    Tell us in brief about your role as  a  Senior Consultant  in the area  of  Finance and HR Management Solutions at Legal League Consulting.

    All Senior Consultants at LLC work on specified client portfolios, headed by Ms. Bithika Anand herself and supported by a team of Consultants. Having expertise in Finance, I have majorly been involved in improving cash flows in firms. We monitor the timings of inflows and outflows of cash and encourage the firms in budgeting. There is also a substantive internal audit undertaken to identify the financial health of the firms, which is followed by suggesting best practices to be followed. We also conduct thorough checks on the profitability of the firm and compare the same with global standards, Indian standards and industry standards to show a true picture to the firm.

    As far as Human Resource Management is concerned, we ensure that the performance of workforce is constantly monitored and motivation levels are maintained always. Wherever required, benchmarks for performance are set both in financial and non-financial terms, which are followed by appraisals. We suggest and implement strategies for retention of the right people by ensuring that they are suitably rewarded in the firm and their growth needs are taken care of.

     

    You have introduced Enterprise Resource Planning (ERP) Systems across various entities to bring all facets of a law-firm in sync with each other. What is this all about? Tell us in brief about this venture introduced by you to our readers.

    My interest in ERP developed manifold while working at Lall & Sethi since they were about to launch their proprietary software called ‘ClickIPR’. It enabled me to bridge the link between the lawyers’ needs and IT Professionals’ delivery. Mr. Chander M. Lall, under whom I was working at that time, used to say that ‘If I can think of it, technology can deliver it’. It is this thought that kept me driving till a particular solution was achieved for every problem at hand. The experienced gained during this stint was really helpful in suggesting ERP for law firms and implementing the same with change management.

    As the firms would grow in size and geographical locations, it would be impossible to rely on paper, human effort and simple software like word and excel files. Hence, the top management understood the need for switching to a common platform where all their needs could be taken care of. Thus, manual procedures are abandoned in favour of automated solutions. ERPs today offer total management of the firm through integrated technology approach. It is your document management system, calendar management system, time-recording software, contact manager, docketing and diary manager and internal work allocation tool.

     

    What is the main agenda of Law Firm Management? How do you think aspiring young lawyers would get benefit from this programme?

    Being a successful lawyer is not just about technical skills. Every profession requires us to be a total package these days. Law Firm Management aims to broaden the horizon of the law students and get them acquainted with aspects related to everyday working of a law firm environment, ranging from billing, client management and handling, supervising administrative staff, understanding cost implication of decisions relating to schedule of fee etc., keeping your resources motivated and how to self motivate yourself, why are smooth cash flows important for survival of firm, etc., to name a few.

     

    We would love to hear about your work profile. Being a Senior Consultant, what are your responsibilities? How is a typical day at work?

    While most of the points relating to my work profile have been outlined above, a typical day at work could be defined as ‘exciting’. All of us at LLC are an excited lot, constantly bubbling with ideas. The day involves meetings at client places, internal meetings for strategy planning and work updates and a lot of sharing of knowledge with each other. There is also a steady flow of e-mails from the clients and we endeavour to get back to them in the shortest possible turnaround time. Team LLC is very well connected with each other and all latest updates are circulated within the team, except any client information which is confidential and sensitive. Ms. Bithika Anand is always approachable by a single phone call and we always keep persons working on a mandate apprised of all developments. Thus, at any given point, all people marked on a mandate are very hands-on.

     

    How challenging is it to advise Top-Tier law firms in India? 

    While most of the assignments are challenging since we deal with human resources (and that’s the fun part!), the pressure is surely large when it comes to dealing with the Top-Tier Firms, since each decision – whether small or big, affects many people. Therefore, before any decision is taken and implemented, there is a proper plan conceptualized and shared with the top management. Upon their approval, and after incorporating any amendments suggested by them, buy-in is taken from all the people from top to bottom so that there is preparedness towards the change. Many times the conflicting views have to be reconciled and moderated, which is a challenging but enjoyable task.

     

    What would you say contributes to the high attrition rate at many top law firms?

    Well, I would say that it is not one, but a combination of factors that usually leads to it.  We all are aware that some of the top law firms give handsome packages to lawyers at all levels, yet face a high attrition rate. I believe that at some levels, hoarding of work and not passing on the same to the juniors contributes to dissatisfaction of juniors. The younger lot today want to learn and excel. If there are not enough opportunities extended to them, they tend to leave and find their calling elsewhere. Thus mentoring of juniors and training them to work independently should be encouraged. Contrary to this, where there is too much pressure is put on juniors, making them forcefully compromise with their work-life balance, it is also a culprit. Besides that, it is equally important to maintain calm during the moments of pressure. Unnecessary shouting, scolding in front of peers and juniors, sending stinkers over e-mails and texts are bad practices and build up the urge to walk out of the situation. Thus the organization should aim to achieve a healthy and balanced work environment, with right amounts of work pressure and creating sufficient bandwidth/expertise to handle urgent situations.

     

    What are your thoughts on work-life balance? How do you achieve it yourself?

    I believe work-life balance is a very important but ignored aspect by most of us. I would also like to mention here that some people think that sitting late and working extra hours is a way to impress their seniors. During my practical experience, I have actually seen people from the management having such expectations from their people which is very disappointing. Let me clear a basic premise here. I believe all of us are mature human beings and understand our responsibilities. Sitting late cannot be the measure of someone’s efficiency. I also do not agree with the theory that people who sit late are inefficient since they ought to have finished their work in time (during the day). I do not support either of the views. The management should make their people aware of their responsibilities and should have realistic expectations on delivery. The people, on the other hand, can put in extra effort during the need of the hour or exigency. However, by making it a habit or not speaking up if unreasonable work load is offered to them is also not correct on their part. They should share with the management when the work expectations cannot be delivered in time.

    As regards my work-life balance is concerned, I believe in the theory of work hard and party harder. I am approachable by my clients round the clock and the whole LLC team extends support at odd hours too when there is requirement to help and support a client. That is how we strive to become trusted advisors of our clients and give them comfort to fall back on us at the time of need. However, normally, I hang out with friends and family almost thrice or four times a week. Ms. Anand takes us out every few months for team dinners and get-togethers, where work is strictly not to be discussed. Since my best friend is a lawyer himself, we do take holidays at least twice a year during the court holidays and travel within and outside India. LLC retreats happen every year as well. All this gives us sufficient time to unwind and bounce back with a refreshed mind.

     

    Where do you see yourself five years down the line? What kind of work will you like to do?

    I have to admit here that the legal fraternity has given me a lot and I would always be indebted to it. Therefore, I am very sure that I would like to be associated with this field for all my life. There is so much more to achieve. Law Firms are yet to embrace technology in its true sense. Many firms are yet to implement systems and processes to make their day go day running smooth and more profitable. I view loopholes and problems as opportunities to help and improve. Just as a painter starts mentally conceiving a painting upon looking at the blank canvass, I start thinking of ideas to improve the moment I come across a problem. Thus, I would work in the field of Law Firm Management for years to come. However, it is my desire to get involved in teaching sometime. Anyone from Universities & Institutions reading this article?

     

    Would you like to start your own consultancy firm one day?

    To be very candid, I don’t think I am entrepreneur material! I am more than happy working for someone and realizing my dreams while helping others achieve theirs! I have worked very closely under all my bosses and strived to make their life easy. I think I derive passion out of ‘serving’. Therefore, I don’t think starting my own consultancy is on cards anytime soon, or later!

     

    As a concluding message, what would be your suggestions to law students?

    While it may sound very philosophical, I would just say ‘Follow your heart!’ While walking the path, temptations will always come in your way. Sometimes you will overcome them, sometimes they will overcome you, it’s human. But do not let it bog you down. Study, work hard, stay updated and in between take time out for yourself. Spend time with family, make a best friend, fall in love, pursue a hobby, there is so much to do! One very important thing, choose the right people – be it a mentor, or boss, or friend or colleague or roommate. I have been blessed with right mentors, very helpful colleagues, doting friends and an awesome best friend. Our company has a lot of influence on us, so choose people with positive vibes and bright mindset. During the insane moments of your life, these choices will bring you a lot of sanity.

  • Ajay Chandru, Associate, Nishith Desai Associates, on LL.M from George Washington Univ and specialising in IPR

    Ajay Chandru, Associate, Nishith Desai Associates, on LL.M from George Washington Univ and specialising in IPR

    Ajay Chandru graduated from GNLU in 2009 with a B.Sc.LL.B. degree. During his days at GNLU, he attended various summer schools including George Washington University Summer Program, Munich, Franklin Pierce Summer Program, Cork, Ireland, Intellectual Property Summer Program, Macau, World Intellectual Property Organization’s Summer program at Bangkok, Thailand. Soon after graduation, he joined Lakshmikumaran & Sridharan as an Associate and worked there for two years. Thereafter, he went on to pursue Masters in IPR law from George Washington University. Currently, he works as an Associate at Nishith Desai Associates.

    In this interview, he talks about:

    • Summer schools during under-graduation
    • Work experience at LKS
    • LL.M experience at The George Washington University
    • Induction and work at Nisith Desai Associates

     

    What brought you into studying law? Was it fate or planned?

    I had taken up Science as my stream in eleventh and twelfth standard. Like all science students I followed the herd and joined coaching classes for IIT. However, I and my parents realised after my coaching class IIT test results, I was definitely not cut out for IIT. My dad then spoke to the director of HR at his company to discuss what will be the most in-demand professionals in the next five to ten years. One of the professionals in demand he said would be corporate lawyers.

    I had no clue at that time what corporate lawyers were. I actually wanted to be a pilot and was keen on going to flying school but I realised while looking at the job market in India for pilots back in 2004 that it was not practical. I then googled for the best law schools in India and then I came across the ever so misleading India Today rankings.

    I also came across Law School Tutorials (“LST”) and started solving the entrance exam papers, I found it very easy as compared to IIT entrance exam papers, so I thought law entrance exam would be pretty easy to crack. I used to solve the law school entrance papers even in my free time because I especially loved the General Knowledge section. My Mom thought I was spending too much time in solving these papers and not focusing on my twelfth exams, so she hid the LST prep material and did not give it to me until two weeks before the law school entrance exam. In conclusion you can say that me being a lawyer was a mix of fate and plan.

     

    Did you take part in moots when at GNLU or indulge in academic legal writing?

    I was never an avid mooter. However, I did take part in a couple of moot courts. I was always focused on Intellectual Property Rights law since the first year of my law school. I never bothered to concentrate on a moot court which was not related to Intellectual Property Law. I think it was in the third year that we first had an internal moot on an Intellectual Property Law issue. I took part in it and actually topped the whole law school in that internal round.

    Looking back, I do feel that I should have taken part in more moot court competitions, especially the international ones because they give you a lot of exposure and you do hone your oral and drafting skills.

    When it came to writing I did end up writing some articles on the subject of Intellectual Property Law. I do think writing academic articles is important. However, it has to be done the right way. The article should contribute or develop the existing legal jurisprudence on a particular subject. Articles should not be written just for the heck of putting that in a resume. It can actually backfire against you. All the big law firms and even companies have started asking for writing samples or published articles for recruitment purposes. It is very easy to identify the quality of the article by briefly reading it on the first go itself. Plus, if you have written an article on a subject, it is presumed your fundamentals on the subject including the leading case laws are within your knowledge off hand.

     

    During your days at GNLU, you attended various summer schools. What was the reason behind pursuing these programs?

    I attended George Washington University Summer Program, Munich, Franklin Pierce Summer Program, Cork, Ireland, Intellectual Property Summer Program, Macau, World Intellectual Property Organization’s Summer program at Bangkok, Thailand. All these Summer Programs were on the subject of Intellectual Property Rights. I pursued these summer programs mostly from an academic standpoint. It also helps from a recruitment point of view as it shows that you have command on the subject.

     

    How do you think such summer schools are beneficial for a law student?

    The method of teaching in these summer programs is different. They are very practical and assignment oriented, which make you think on these subjects. This kind of academic exposure I did not get in GNLU. Further, you tend to meet a lot of people from different countries with the same kind of academic mind set. This exposes you to a different kind of thinking, which results in expanding your cultural and academic horizons.

     

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    Right after graduating, you joined Lakshmikumaran & Sridharan as an Associate where you worked for two years and then went for LL.M. Why did you decide to go for higher studies?

    I honestly wanted to go for my LL.M right after college. However, I realised it made more sense to go for LL.M after gaining some work experience because I would have a better grasp on the subject by then. This was important, if I wanted to make the most out of my LL.M. Also, work experience gave me a different practical perspective of the subjects I undertook in my LL.M. I ended up taking a lot of practical and very specific interest oriented subjects within Intellectual Property Law and did not undertake a lot of foundation courses on Intellectual Property Law, as I was already familiar with fundamentals on the subject.

     

    Tell us something about your LL.M year at The George Washington University. How did this influence your career?

    It was an exciting and probably one of the best years of my life. I did study a lot because I was genuinely interested in the subjects I undertook. I did also party a lot I have to confess. Plus, the LL.M programmes are structured in such a way that you so many events to party and most of which are actually funded by the Student Bar Associations of the college, this is apart from the partying that you would do with friends.

    I think if you want to pursue LL.M in Intellectual Property Law, George Washington is the best place to study. One, because of its reputation in Intellectual Property Law and second, is because of its location in Washington DC. The Federal Circuit Court (the appellate court for patent matters), USPTO, the US Copyright Office and the Supreme Court are all located in Washington DC. Because of this most law firms and institutions dealing with Intellectual Property have a presence in Washington DC. This gives George Washington unparalleled access to a lot of resources including excellent part time lecturers.

     

    Do you think it makes sense to students to go overseas to study law when they want to work/practice in India?

    Honestly, I don’t think so. If you are thinking of doing an LL.M from overseas just to get a job overseas, it’s a bad idea. You need to have a genuine interest in the subject that you want to focus on. The chances are pretty slim that you will get a job overseas. It might be still possible to get a job overseas but the question is what kind of job you want to do. If you have worked in a law firm in India and worked on high profile litigations and transactions or a law firm in India is giving you that opportunity then would you want to do work for a contract management firm or discovery firm overseas, if you are okay with doing this kind of a job chances are you might ending up getting a job overseas, if you try.

    However, what an LL.M does is irrespective of your job prospects, the exposure that you get in an LL.M when you make friends and hang out with people from different countries is extremely invaluable that can’t be quantified by any amount of money. This exposure makes you so culturally aware and shapes your personality, which is very important in your professional careers.

     

    You have also worked as an intern at Boehmert & Boehmert, Germany. What kind of work did you come across?

    Boehmert & Boehmert, Germany is a law firm specializing in Intellectual Property Law. The kind of work I came across was patent prosecution, trademark related litigation research, European Pharma regulatory research work and trademark prosecution work.

    Working in a German law firm is very different than working in an American or Indian law firm. The working atmosphere was very relaxed. People generally never stayed longer than 6.00 p.m. in the firm. However, people did not waste a single minute while working in the office. The efficiency of the associates, interns, secretaries and paralegals in time management was extremely good.

    The interns in the law firm were treated almost like associates. We had our own cabin and even secretaries assigned to us to help with the backend work and you directly reported to a partner and the work was assigned to you by a partner and not an associate. The responsibility that you are given is also equivalent to an associate. In this way it was completely different than an internship in an Indian law firm.

     

    You are working as an Associate at Nishith Desai Associates. Tell us about the nature of work you’re entrusted with therein.

    At Nishith Desai Associates (“NDA”) I primarily focus on Patent prosecution, Intellectual Property litigation, Intellectual Property centric transactions, Pharma regulatory litigation, General commercial law litigation and General Commercial Law related documentation.

    At NDA we have 70:20:10 philosophy; wherein you need to spend every year 70 percentage of your time in your core area, 20 percentage of your time in related core area and 10 percentage of your time in an entirely non-related core area. So I do end up doing work, which is not related to Intellectual property law.

    NDA being a research oriented firm, a substantial amount of my time is also spent on drafting research articles and hotlines that get circulated to the NDA external mailing list or get published in national and international publications.

     

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    How do you say one can gain expertise in IPR? What does it take to be a good IPR lawyer?

    The first and foremost thing you need to decide if you want to gain expertise in IP is whether you are genuinely interested in the subject, does it excite you, does it make you want to read more and gain knowledge in the subject. If the answer is yes, then you should decide to gain expertise in the subject. As, a student the best way to again expertise in IP would be to intern with a law firm specializing in IP. I think this is one of the best ways of gaining exposure and experience on the subject and it also increases your chances of recruitment. Another is attending summer programs to gain exposure and to have comparative understanding of the subject, which is very helpful as it gives you a broader perspective on the subject. You should also be abreast with the latest development in the subject area by reading blogs and major case laws on the subject.

    To be a good IP lawyer, you need the same qualities as any other lawyer. However, it does help very much if you have an inclination to understand and better grasp the fundamentals of science especially if you want to do patents. Plus, if you have science degree even if from National Law School such as GNLU you are eligible for giving the Patent Agent Exam in India. Having this qualification is also very helpful, if you want to focus on patents.

     

    Nishith Desai Associates takes on interns as well. What do you feel makes an intern stand out and is very important for him to do to have a chance of getting a call back or even a PPO?

    Interns at NDA generally work across teams. So it is important to have a mindset where you are open to work across subject areas. You should be able to work anywhere, be it in Intellectual Property or corporate or tax or litigation. Dedication to your work, time management, meeting deadlines and consistency in the quality of work are also important. In addition to NDA being a research oriented law firm, we also look for good drafting and analytical thinking skills in a potential recruit. Analytical skills are essential; for example, if you are drafting an article on the latest case law, you need to understand the broader implication of the judgment on the jurisprudence and the industry and your critical analysis of the judgment.

     

    Is there any success mantra that you follow which you would like to share with our readers?

    I think be it any field or any kind of work, according to me, if you need to be successful, dedication, hard work and time management are the most important. You can’t achieve success without possessing any of these qualities.

     

  • Piyush Kumar, Retainer Counsel, Krishna & Saurastri Associates, on building a career in IPR

    Piyush Kumar, Retainer Counsel, Krishna & Saurastri Associates, on building a career in IPR

    Piyush Kumar graduated from CLC, Delhi University. After graduation, he started working with Legal Knights Law Firm, followed by S.S. Rana and Co., a boutique IP firm in Delhi. He pursued a Masters in Business Law from NLSIU while working at S.S. Rana and Co. He later joined Krishna & Saurastri Associates as a Retainer Counsel where he currently works. In this interview he talks about:

    • Pursuing litigation and IPR
    • Working and pursuing a Masters course simultaneously
    • Internship and recruitment at Krishna Saurastri Associates

     

    How would you introduce yourself? Could you please share a little bit of what motivated you to pursue law as a career?

    I am Piyush Kumar, a lawyer dealing with cases under Intellectual Property Laws & Commercial Laws and working in New Delhi. My work involves a lot of communication with clients, negotiations and meetings. My role encompasses that of an in-house counsel as well as a litigator because I handle a lot of Court Cases also.  My father, who is at present a District Judge is my inspiration to enter this field to pursue law as a career. I am happy that I could do what I really wanted to do in my career. Motivation according to me is something that is the culmination of your zeal and determination.

     

    How would you describe your time at Delhi University? How important do you think extra-curricular activities are to a law student?

    College times are always the best part of one’s life; so for me it was the best time to learn the basics of the profession. Being in CLC, you have to take part in extracurricular activities such as Moot Court Societies, Seminar & Group Discussions Committee, Legal Aid Societies, Intellectual Property Right Cell, Women Empowerment Cell and other committees. I was Convenor of the Seminar & Group Discussions Committee where we organised seminars and group discussions on relevant topics of law and invited legal luminaries to enlighten us from their experiences. I was also actively participating in Moot Courts, Legal Aid and other Societies of the College.  For law students, extra-curricular activities are very important as it gives them insights / exposure to the work / areas they have to work in the coming future.

     

    A lot of law students promise to take up pro-bono work and do some socially relevant work. Have these ideas ever crossed your mind?

    Pro-bono / voluntary work is always good to do. In law college days I was associated with YMCA, New Delhi and was organizing legal awareness programmes in slums and helping them sort their legal problems. Even today, when I get free time I love to do the same.

     

    How was your first year after graduation?

    In 2010, after completing my graduation I started working with Legal Knights Law Firm as  a litigation advocate. Litigation, which was my first girlfriend of the profession, taught a lot about the profession and helped me a lot in developing myself and articulating myself with new ideas of professional world. Even my seniors in the firm helped me a lot in developing legal skills such as drafting, court appearances, negotiations etc. For me, when you start preparing your brief for the next day, first jot down the defences you have to put forth for the laches you have to provide during the course of hearing. As in litigation, the safest defence is complete preparation of the case.

     

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    How did you appointment take place at Legal Knights take place? How would you describe your work experience there?

    I was lucky enough to get two offers within the last month of our last semester; one from Manupatra as Legal editor for their journals and one from the Legal Knights as Associate, Litigation. As I already said litigation being my first girlfriend, I preferred working as an Associate and joined the Litigation Practice in the firm. Although, that was a difficult move for me being a young law graduate because there was the pain of being paid less in comparison to what was being paid by Manupatra. But now, I believe my decision was right as I started working extensively on Commercial Laws ; further my Seniors also helped me to articulate myself as in In-house work. I started on the balance with In-house as well as Litigation profile.

     

    What contributed towards your appointment at S.S.Rana and Co., a boutique IP law firm in Delhi? How did that go?

    When I joined S.S.Rana & Co.; I was barely aware of the legal technicalities of IP. However, as I was in Court Practice, my basics of law are good. I worked hard to learn the technicalities of IP. Even at present I am learning and developing myself better day by day as you know in this profession you have to learn and develop yourself day by day. As the mantra in this profession is Darwin’s Theory of Survival of the Fittest.

     

    How did you manage to eke out time for pursuing Masters in Business Law from NLSIU while working at S.S.Rana and Co.? Please share your experience with our readers.

    After enrolling myself in the Master of Business Laws from NLSIU, the Mecca of law schools in India, for the first time I felt that working and pursuing a course together are one of the hardest things to do. As you have to work hard for your firm being in Litigation Profile most of the time you have no time for doing other things when you complete one assignment/case you get another. Although MBL is under DED, NLSIU, Bangalore but the same is a tough nut to crack. Since, my basics concepts were clear and I had a passion to be updated on the legal issues the same helped me pursue MBL from NLSIU.

     

    Have you ever considered litigation or starting up on your own?

    I am happy to do litigation as a choice not per force. I may start my own work but there is time for it. Certainly, the law firm provides good opportunities and exposure to a young individual lawyer as you have to deal on variety of issues and more volume of work shall mean more opportunities to brush up one’s professional skills.

     

    After having worked with S.S.Rana and Co. for almost two years, how did you join Krishna & Saurastri Associates as a Retainer Counsel?

    I was made a good offer by Krishna & Saurastri both in terms of exposure and monetisation which appealed to me leading to joining them.

     

    You have specialized in IPR. What made you interested in the same?

    For me, I am not specialised yet. I am in process of learning as I said that in this field you learn every day. Once your zeal/passion to learn ends I think it ends you also.  Since I am a Science Graduate and also my inclination towards science is a bit more, it made me interested in IPR laws as creations of the human intellect fascinate me.

     

    How did you build up your expertise in IPR?

    Having already said “I am no expert”, nonetheless it may be noted that IPR is a niche field with a lot of dynamic areas which are being crystallised with time. I feel most of the IP firms are doing a great job of nurturing their young associates in IP laws.

     

    What is a normal workday like Krishna & Saurastri? Being a Retainer Counsel, what are your responsibilities?

    Handling work of the Litigation & Prosecutions team simultaneously does not have the comfort of workday and times. For me it starts at about nine in the morning and depending upon the work, varies from ten-twelve hours each day. I, along with my able colleagues are responsible for taking care of prosecutions, courts cases, counterfeit actions and related advisory works.

     

    What has been your strategy to deal with errors and mistakes? How would you suggest a young associate deals with them?

    Error / mistakes play a crucial role in our professional life, as a counsel’s single mistake sometimes not only ruin their clients but also jeopardises your professional life. As the scope of error / mistake in professional life of lawyer is very negligible they must proof read their work, they must have a checklist to reduce the chances of errors / mistakes. Further, factual position of the drafts must be verified by the clients.

     

    Tell us about a case that you are particularly proud of. What steps do you take to prepare for a difficult case?

    I believe I am proud of all the cases I have dealt with because each case / matter teaches me a lot and the same is added to my professional skills. But, I really remember arguing a NDPS bail matter before the Hon’ble High Court of Delhi in my recent days of joining the profession. One has to know the facts and read all the papers/ documents of their case. Also, research on various aspects of the matter is also very important.

     

    What is the current scenario of studying IP law as a career option in India?

    With the development of the Indian economy, competition has become intense with brands bending over backwards to achieve sales.  IPRs are now being used not only as a tool to protect creativity and generate revenue but also to build strategic alliances for socio-economic and technological growth. Industries are now dealing with IPRs in different situations in the competitive world. Similarly, domestic industries are also more watchful to ensure that their IPRs are not infringed in India and in other countries. Hence, there is always a vast option in IP law field.

     

    What is the procedure to apply for an internship and recruitment at Krishna & Saurastri? What do they look for in their prospective employees?

    Students can apply for internship or recruitment by logging on to the link http://www.krishnaandsaurastri.com/?p=careers_employee. Like any other IP firm they look for basics of law especially IP Law. And being computer savvy surely helps.

     

    What would you suggest to someone who is preparing to work with an IPR law firm?

    When you are preparing for the interview you must be well acquainted with the basics such as C.P.C., Cr.P.C, Arbitration, Contract etc. Further, he/she must also be well versed with established precedents and doctrines of IPR law nationally and internationally.

     

    Please give our readers a few tips in order to land a job in IPR firm.

    Sciences combined with law are a great combination for patent and for the other aspects of IP doing internship with IP law firm may also go a long way in getting the coveted assignments.

     

    What would be your parting message to our readers?

    Take positive approach and choose your field as per your personal bent of mind.

  • Somdutta Bhattacharyya, Advocate, Calcutta High Court, on quitting law firm to start up with litigation

    Somdutta Bhattacharyya, Advocate, Calcutta High Court, on quitting law firm to start up with litigation

    Somdutta Bhattacharyya graduated from West Bengal National University of Juridical Sciences, Kolkata in 2012. After graduation, he worked at AMSS for two years before joining Fox & Mandal, Kolkata. He was a part of the Litigation & Dispute Resolution Team at both places. He’s currently an independent practitioner practising litigation at the Calcutta High Court. In this interview he talks about:

    • Law school experience at WBNUJS
    • Working at AMSS and Fox & Mandal
    • Choosing to pursue litigation over a career in corporate law

     

    Please tell us a little bit about your childhood and your background?

    I am a through and through Kolkatan, born, brought up and working here. I spent a considerably large part of my life in residential school, at Ramakrishna Mission Vidyalaya, Narendrapur, from 5th standard right upto my plus two boards. I am not sure that spending so many years in a residential school and from such a young age has made me very self-sufficient though!

     

    How did you gravitate towards law? Why law and not engineering or medical studies?

    I did choose science as my study stream for my plus two boards, but that was because my parents initially wanted me to become a doctor. Engineering was never an option anyway, considering my fantastic mathematical skills. To be honest with you, I still have nightmares about my maths exams! I chose law pretty accidentally actually. It was more like law chose me. My uncle, who is a lawyer at the Calcutta High Court, told me at that time of the emergence of the national law schools across the country and the bright, young graduates these institutions were producing and suggested I should try taking the exams for these law schools. I only took the exam for WBNUJS, Kolkata (ours was the last batch who took individual law school exams instead of the CLAT) after preparing for about a month. The results came out about two weeks before the boards and I was very happy to find that I had gotten through. I decided that this was what I was going to pursue and make a career out of. And that is how it happened.

     

    Tell us about your years in law school. What made your journey with WBNUJS exciting? 

    Law school, I have no qualms in saying, were the five best years of my life. I must admit I was a bit confused at first since I did not come from a legal or even an arts background and there were a lot of subjects like Sociology, History, Economics, Political Science etc. to which I had no or very little previous exposure. But after the first semester or two went by and the strictly law oriented subjects came into the curriculum, I found out that I enjoyed most of these subjects. I enjoyed the process of understanding how and why a particular piece of legislation is framed and how it is implemented in reality. I had the fortune of being taught by some very good professors, who have shaped my life both inside and outside the classroom. There were a lot of extracurricular activities I involved myself in. Being a part of the Legal Aid Society was something I enjoyed thoroughly and it also helped me give a little something back to the society. And lastly, I must say that what made WBNUJS a really exciting place was that I found that most of my fellow students were very bright and very socially, politically and culturally aware people. No wonder I made some of my best friends there.

     

    How did you fare in your academics at WBNUJS? Would you say a great CGPA is a necessity to kickstart a good career in the legal profession?

    Well, I must say my academic performance at WBNUJS was not among the very best but it was pretty consistent. I was never among the top 10 but I was never outside the top 20. And in a batch of about a hundred students, I guess that isn’t too bad.

    The second part of this question is not very easy to answer. I guess it depends on how one wants to start his or her career, I guess. If he or she wants to get into a good law firm, a decent, if not good, CGPA is required to be taken somewhat seriously as a candidate by the recruiters. But of course, an average CGPA in such cases can be complemented by really noteworthy achievements in extracurricular activities or good recommendations from internships. However, once one starts working in any field of the legal professions, one finds out that the CGPA counts for very little in terms of professional growth. But I must conclude by saying that a good CGPA can never hurt and can only help, so why not aspire for it?

     

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    What were your areas of interest during your graduation? How did you go about developing expertise and knowledge in these areas?

    My areas of interest in law school were diverse. Some of the subjects that I enjoyed studying the most were Contracts, Constitutional Law, International Law and Alternative Dispute Resolution. If I took a real interest in a subject, I would read the more authoritative textbooks (and not just the ones students mug from right before the exams) on the same, which was helped by the fact that WBNUJS has a really good library. I would also try to keep myself abreast of the developments, from the newspapers and the Internet, of the latest developments in the areas of law that are evolving with every landmark Supreme Court judgment, like Constitutional Law or Arbitration.

     

    After graduating from WBNUJS, you had worked at AMSS for 2 years and then joined Fox and Mandal before starting litigation. Please tell us a little about your work profile at these firms and the responsibilities you have been entrusted with.

    I would just like to clarify here that I had worked at AMSS for about 2 years and for F&M for about 8 months. In both firms, I was in the Litigation & Dispute Resolution Team, which means I was mostly working on the litigation side of the profession as part of solicitor firms. I was involved in quite a few interesting and high stake litigation matters, mostly at the Calcutta High Court but also sometimes at lower courts. I would have to get thoroughly prepared on the factual and legal issues in such matters so that I could brief the pleading Counsel effectively on the same and assist him ably. I even got to appear in Court once or twice and it felt really great! During my time at AMSS, I was also involved in an international (SIAC) arbitration and got to travel to Singapore and participate in the same. It remains one of the most thrilling experiences of my professional career till date, especially since I had worked very hard on the matter and been very involved in every stage of it.

     

     

    When did you decide to quit Fox and Mandal and start litigation? Was it pre-planned?Why did you prefer Litigation over your corporate job?

    I decided to quit F&M and start my career as an independent practitioner in or about December of last year, i.e., 2014.

    It was not pre-planned. I gradually came to realize, after having spent about 3 years in litigation as a solicitor, that I would like to be on the other side of the profession, i.e., as a counsel. I realized I would like to appear and plead in a court of law. And hence I took my decision.

    I would be lying if I said it was a very easy decision to make. I knew it would take me quite a bit of time to establish myself as an independent practitioner, especially coming from a family where no one is in the practice. I knew I would be giving up the financial security of a fixed sum of money, and not a very small one either, in my bank account at the end of every month. But, at the end of the day, the heart wants what it wants and I felt strongly that this is what I wanted to do, so I took the plunge anyway.

    As I said earlier, after being on the solicitor side for about three years, I thought I would like to remain in litigation but I would like to draft and plead my client’s case in the Court, which I would not have got enough opportunities to if I remained in a law firm. But I am immensely grateful to all my colleagues and mentors at the firms that I have worked at, and especially Mr. Debanjan Mandal, Partner at Fox and Mandal, for providing me the exposure to good, interesting and high-stake court litigation that not only increased my experience but also increased my interest in a career in litigation.

     

    What are you main practice areas? How has been your experience so far? Is it more comfortable be your own boss or is the pressure of work almost similar?

    At this stage of my career as a counsel, after I have just started out on my own practice, I’d prefer not to be choosy and say I will accept any matter. But if I must choose, then I would have to say that my main practice area would be civil and commercial law.

    It is still far too early to answer this question properly (it has only been a month and three weeks), but till now I have really enjoyed being an independent practitioner. I have been briefed in a few matters, both by solicitors as well as from personal sources, and I enjoy the challenge of understanding the problem faced by the client and trying to provide an effective solution to it. I am immensely grateful to my senior, Mr. Abhrajit Mitra, Senior Advocate, who has always provided me any guidance that I may have requested of him in this regard.

    I will say that it is definitely more comfortable to be your own boss but not because there is less work pressure. If anything, the hours I have to put in now are more compared to what I did in a firm. I attend court in the morning, then come back to my residence and leave for my senior’s chamber in the evening. Since my senior works till pretty late in the night, I try to stay in the chamber till he calls it a day and try to assist him in any way that he might require.

     

    How is your experience so far?  What is your workday like? Are there new challenges every day or did work fall into a predictable pattern?

    My experience so far has been pretty good. I enjoy the independence that comes with being in your own practice and I also relish the added dependence that my clients seem to have on me!

    I get to court by 10.30 am and I am in court till 4.30 pm on a typical workday, attending whatever matters I might have in court on that particular day. Then I come back to my residence, freshen up a bit and leave for my senior’s chamber, where I get to by 7.30 pm. I leave chamber when my senior is finished with his briefings/ work for the day, which on a typical day would be around midnight.

    I must say there are new challenges everyday in litigation. Everyday you are arguing on a different kind of matter, every client has his or her own unique set of problems that they are facing and you must be innovative in your approach to provide an effective solution.

     

    How necessary is it to have a mentor to guide a young lawyer while still in the formative years of the profession? Do you have one?

    It is absolutely vital to have a mentor in one’s formative years in the profession. He or she is the person from whom a young lawyer will learn the various facets of the profession, how to approach every legal problem differently, how to strategise a litigation, how to plead in a court of law so as to hold the attention of the Judge and the more one assimilates these lessons from one’s senior, I believe the more likely he is to succeed.

    Yes, my mentor/guide in the practice is my senior Mr. Abhrajit Mitra, Senior Advocate at the Calcutta High Court.

     

    What can the law schools do to encourage more people to pursue litigation? Do you think the law school curriculum requires an overhaul?

    I must not be pretentious here because I really have very little idea as to what law schools can do to encourage more people into litigation. Most young graduates, at the law schools, are hearing about the big bucks their seniors are making at corporate jobs and law firms and get encouraged to just go with the flow. But many of them, after some time, realise they might want to choose a different path, including litigation, for some of them. It is a realization one must have oneself and I doubt law schools can do much in that regard.

    I would not say that the curriculum requires an overhaul. But yes, I would suggest that students be not only constrained to the theoretical knowledge of certain subjects that they will never have to apply in their lives and teachers can provide them with more practical, real-life legal scenarios so the students can understand how to apply the law and find a solution to the same. It would hold them in good stead, no matter which facet of the profession they are involved in their careers.

     

    How far is theoretical knowledge in law schools consistent with the practical arena?

    A basic good grasp of the theoretical knowledge imparted in law schools is of course necessary in the practical arena also. But that can only help to a certain extent and one can only learn about how to excel in the profession through experience and by being involved in actual legal scenarios. In that regard, I would say the seniors, be it in law firms or in the practice are more important teachers for a young lawyer than their teachers in law school.

     

    How difficult would you say it is to build a reputed practice in litigation?

    I would say the main difficulties faced by a young practitioner is to get solicitors and possible clientele to know that he or she even exists, let alone being efficient and dependable! In that regard, one must have patience and execute whatever matters one is briefed on with utmost diligence and care. Sooner or later, a reputation, or at least a foundation, would start being built for the practitioner.

    I would certainly say it is not very easy to build a reputed practice. It needs a lot of hard work and probably some luck as well. It is especially difficult in a place like Calcutta, where there are a lot of good, young lawyers but probably not so much good, high stakes litigation. One can only work hard and start building a reputation, as I said in the first part of this question.

    It is difficult to say exactly how many years of hard work it takes to build a firm clientele. It depends a lot on each individual practitioner. From what I hear, it takes at least 3 to 4 years before one can say that the initial period of struggle has somewhat given way to calmer waters.

     

    The Bar Council of India has recently come out with new Certificate of Practice and Renewal Rules, 2014 that prohibit an Advocate from starting to practise in the Supreme Court unless they have practiced for at least two years in a Trial Court and three years in a High Court in India. What is your take on this?

    The Bar Council feels that one can only have a strong enough foundation in litigation practice to be practising at the Supreme Court if he or she has spent enough time at the lower courts, and I cannot say I entirely disagree. Most of the people in the practice will tell you that young lawyers get the most amount of exposure and experience in the lower courts, while in the Supreme Court they will in all likelihood be assisting an established senior lawyer. So I do not think it is a bad or unreasonable measure by the BCI.

     

    Indian criminal law is, to a large extent, influenced by its British counterpart. Do you think if Indians would have framed our Penal Code, it would have been better?

    I would not say that when the IPC was drafted, the Indians would have done a better job than the British. Lord Macaulay was an extremely knowledgeable and experienced draftsman and I doubt such an exhaustive Penal Code could have been drafted at that point of time by anyone else. But times have changed, and now the IPC, in my opinion, needs quite a few amendments. Archaic provisions like the criminalisation of homosexuality or the extremely narrow definition of obscenity need to be changed, while stricter measures to counter rape and sexual harassment of women in the current scenario need to be introduced. And that can only be done by our very Indian legislators, isn’t it? No point blaming the British for something that they had drafted so long ago, when social perceptions and scenarios were completely different.

     

    If you could re-live your five years in Law school, is there something you would do differently?

    I would have definitely studied my Civil Procedure Code course better and with more interest. I should have known more of the basic provisions of the CPC that I need to apply everyday by the time I graduated. Apart from that, I really don’t think there is anything else.

     

    How to make a conscious career choice – corporate vs. litigation?

    You have to ask yourself what you really want. Does the thought of drafting pleadings and navigating through piles of case law and legal books to present a successful argument in court for your client (I must mention it is a different feeling altogether when one does manage to get a really good order in the favour of his client) excite you? If the answer to that is yes, then you must ask yourself whether you are prepared to be patient and endure a bit of financial struggle in the early days in the sight of a greater goal, i.e., to become a successful practitioner? If the answer is still yes, then litigation is definitely for you.

     

    Lastly, what would be your parting message for our readers?

    To young people still at law schools, I would ask you to concentrate on your studies and focus on doing well. Indulge yourself in a lot of extracurriculars and also have a lot of fun, because trust me, these are some of the best years of your life and they will not come back. Also, do not give in to peer pressure or what everyone says. Look into your heart and ask yourself what you actually want to do. There are a lot of excellent career paths and options out there, and do not choose something you do not think you will like being stuck in because of extraneous reasons. I am sure you will be able to figure it all out and I wish you the very best of luck!

  • Khyati Rathod, Senior Associate, Khaitan & Co., on work experience in real estate laws

    Khyati Rathod, Senior Associate, Khaitan & Co., on work experience in real estate laws

    Khyati graduated with a B.A. LL.B from Jitendra Chauhan College of Law (Mithibai) in 2007. After graduation she joined Desai & Chinoy (Advocates & Solicitors) as an Associate. After specializing in real estate laws for almost two years, she joined Khaitan and Co. as an Associate and currently works as a Senior Associate there. In this interview she talks about:

    • Specializing in real estate laws
    • Recruitment at Khaitan and Co.
    • Being a Senior Associate at Khaitan and Co.

     

    What got you into legal studies? Was it all planned or something that just happened by chance?

    I love this question – Why law? I come from a family full of Chartered Accountants and Engineers and to be honest, this was the first question that everybody asked me when I informed them about my decision of choosing law as my career. The sole motivation to turn towards law was my own conviction and the hallmark of prestige towards this profession. The legal profession appeared to me as one of the most intellectually rewarding jobs on the planet!

     

    How was your experience at Mithibai Law College, Mumbai? What activities were you involved in apart from the regular academic curriculum?

    I graduated with B.A. LL.B. from Jitendra Chauhan College of Law (Mithibai). I have had a wonderful experience in Mithibai. From the very first year of my college, I was given an opportunity to represent our college in some of the prestigious moot court competitions. I was also part of a team who organized moot court competitions and seminars. Co-curricular activities help you develop an all-round personality, improve your interpersonal skills and also boost your self-confidence.

     

    What were your major interests as a student of law?

    Let me answer the latter question first. Figuring out what practice area to choose after law school is a big decision. To start with, I would say there has to be a self-assessment as to whether you want to be the expert or generalist. Choosing a practice area will depend upon a variety of factors like inventories of your interest and skills, an eye towards the law school courses you most enjoyed, long term goals, work-life balance and so on. I strongly suggest undertaking internship programs in the formative stages of your legal career as such programs are an ideal way to make you realise your interest in specific area of work.

    During the early course of one’s career, one may venture into areas that were not originally considered. Be alert to your changing interests, the changing law and changing markets. Be open minded and unafraid to learn something new.

    The urge to swot the business and legal aspects of real estate was always within me. I was fortunate enough to work on property and alternate dispute resolution matters during my internships and in my earlier law firms.

     

    What is your take on academics? How important do you say is a good CGPA for an illustrious career?

    There seems to be an incredible fascination amongst law students for maintaining high CGPA and well, let us be honest, who wouldn’t want to score good marks in an examination? The first impression is created by your academic achievements which includes CGPA. However, one should not equate scoring of high CGPA to “success”. I do not wish to negate benefits of scoring of high CGPA but personally, in my view, the concept of “CGPA” is considered as an easy way to assess merit while a securing job. According to me, CGPA cannot be the best indicator of a person’s ability. Let us not forget that at work and in your daily routine, all that matters is your hard work, confidence and your zeal for having in-depth knowledge about your subject. You may be the topper from a law college but that may not make you a good lawyer! Don’t despair if your CGPA isn’t ideal; however, do drum up your effort in practical experience and professional networking.

     

    How was your first year after graduation? What do you think were the biggest hurdles and challenges in the early days of your career? How did you deal with them?

    Law school does not prepare you to practise law. Of course, it teaches you how to “think like a lawyer,” but when you get your first job as lawyer, you will find that you’re completely in the dark about lot of things. It was a new world with a plethora of experience. One needs to put to use all theoretical knowledge that was learnt in a law school! Luckily for me, I undertook internship programs during my initial days. I would not say that I learnt it all during these programs but it relatively became easier for me to gain a bit of experience and showcase the same when I secured my first job as a lawyer. One more important factor which helped me was that I got to work with wonderful people. Healthy work environment plays an important role to combat any challenge.

     

    What is your opinion when people say that all that they have learnt is in their years of practice?

    I would like to say my learning during college days helps me every day in some or the other aspect. We were encouraged to do mock-trials, give presentations and so on. My professors and seniors still remain my mentors. It depends on how you make the best out of the opportunities given. Legal education helps in gaining theoretical knowledge. Yes, there is no doubt that you learn a lot when you are actually in a situation where you have to put to use “theoretical solutions” to “your practical problems of clients”! I believe everything cannot be taught in a classroom and this is a profession where there is continuous learning.

     

    After graduation you joined M/s Desai &Chinoy (Advocates & Solicitors) as an Associate. How was your experience working there?

    Desai & Chinoy was a wonderful experience for me. The best part was that this was my first job after graduation and I was fortunate enough to gain insights about property matters in my early years and worked with wonderful team.

     

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    Thereafter, you joined Khaitan and Co. as an Associate and currently work as a Senior Associate there. What led to this shift?

    My superiors will be in a better position to answer this question! The initial few years of your career require lot of hard work, dedication and persistence to grow. I was driven by these factors which helped me to climb the ladder. I am fortunate enough that my work has been acknowledged and appreciated by my partners and senior management. Over all, it is all about your hard work coupled with an optimistic outlook to absorb new things.

     

    Please tell us the recruitment process at KCO. How did you appointment take place?

    Recruitment process is at KCO is extremely transparent and well structured. Real Estate practice is slightly different from other practice areas. As our team has expertise in real estate sector, it was very important for the team to absorb people who will easily comprehend property laws, specifically, pertaining to Maharashtra. I had 2 rounds of interviews. I was directly interviewed by the partners and after 2 rounds of grilling sessions, I had my offer letter with me!

    What kind of work and responsibilities does a Senior Associate at KCO deal with?

    KCO gives an opportunity to develop ourselves as professionals as the common objective is to grow. It gives opportunity to take independent decisions.

     

    What has been your strategy to deal with errors and mistakes? How would you suggest a young associate to deal with them?

    No matter where you work, adhering to professional ethics benefits your career. Foremost is to own up to your mistakes. It is simple – you can’t learn from your mistakes if you can’t acknowledge you’ve made them! And if you don’t learn from your mistakes, you’re destined to repeat them. I also ensure to have good working relationship with my colleagues as it helps to maintain healthy working environment.

    My advice will be to maintain a “good work ethic” and make it an important part of your professional package. Your overall reputation and particularly your references will follow you the rest of your life, particularly for your career.

     

    What changes has being a Senior Associate brought into your life, do you ever feel that there is excess of work load on you?

    Being a Senior Associate is not an easy job and of course it comes as an added responsibility! You are accountable not just to your seniors but also to your clients. You will also have your junior colleagues who will look up to you for your guidance. Your whole outlook changes and you start feeling more responsible which also includes negative consequences if any! Yes, I do come across work pressures but I have excellent colleagues at associate level to make my life easy.

    Work life balance? On a lighter note, my friends always say that “work life balance” in the legal industry is oxymoron! Yes, law firms usually have long working hours but you also enjoy reasonable amount of flexibility. For me, my work starts sharp at 9 am and depending upon the work, my working hours vary from 10-11 hours each day. I try and prefer to finish work at office even if it calls for having late working hours. However, at times to meet urgent deadlines you are left with no choice but to carry work home. To be realistic, there cannot be a “perfect” work life balance but one should strive to achieve a balance between one’s personal and professional life. I strongly feel that it is achievable.

     

    Have you ever considered litigation or starting up on your own? Would you say the opportunity a firm provides for a young lawyer is worth the trade off in building a reputation?

    Honestly, the amorousness for doing litigation or visiting the courtrooms everyday never got to me. I haven’t considered starting up on my own as my work profile in KCO gives me immense work satisfaction. I think starting up your own is a personal choice.

    I do agree that the law firms be it in small firm or a large firm provide excellent platforms for lawyers to make a mark and build reputation. However, I do not necessarily think of the trade-off between a law firm practitioner and a private practitioner. At the end of the day, reputation happens to be the most important asset for all professionals and all of us endeavour to work towards it in some or the other manner.

     

    Given a chance to turn back the clock would you have done anything differently from what you’ve done?

    By nature, I have always been headstrong. I have always had clarity of thoughts in decisions that I have made so far and therefore I wouldn’t really want to turn back the clock. In fact there’s no looking back now.

     

    Lastly, what would be your message to a law student who is yet to decide his/her career?

    It may sound cliché but find what you love and work hard to achieve it! If you wish to become a lawyer, be prepared for challenging work and lots of it. The legal profession is one of the most lucrative industries in  the job market and there are plethora of opportunities for law graduate.

    To quote Mario Puzo in The Godfather – “A lawyer with his briefcase can make more money than a burglar with a gun, if he has a sharp wit and intelligence.”

     

     

  • Pratyush Saha, Assistant Manager, Indirect Taxes, PricewaterhouseCoopers, on work in taxation firms

    Pratyush Saha, Assistant Manager, Indirect Taxes, PricewaterhouseCoopers, on work in taxation firms

    Pratyush Saha graduated from WBNUJS in 2011. During law school, he participated in various co-curricular activities and has multiple publications to his name. Soon after graduation, he joined BMR Advisors Pvt. Ltd. as an Associte-Indirect tax. Later he switched to PricewaterhouseCoopers and currently works as an Assistant Manager, Indirect Taxes.

    In this interview, he talks about:

    • Law school experience at WBNUJS
    • Work experience at BMR Advisors
    • Induction and work at PwC
    • Work experience in tax law

     

    Tell us a bit about your childhood and pre-college life as well as educational background.

    As a kid, I was an exceptionally confused individual. I wanted to be a doctor or a pilot and a painter. Once, I even considered the prospects of becoming a fashion photographer. But the thought of becoming a lawyer never really crossed my mind. Law happened to me by chance. I pursued science in my plus two in and like most of my classmates, I diligently prepared for the engineering entrance examinations. Law was hardly considered as an alternative career option by science students back then.

    Once I came across a friend preparing for law entrance tests and became curious. The questions appeared to be fairly simple, so I decided to give it a shot. I cleared both AIEEE and the entrance test for NUJS. The idea of me becoming a lawyer did not go down too well with my parents initially. However, I eventually managed to get them on board with the idea. I strongly believed that doing law would prove to be a fascinating journey ahead. Fortunately, it turned out to be a decision I would never regret.

    Coming from a typical Bengali family, I always had a liking for creative arts, which I thought would define my career in future. I always find creative thinking to be an essence of the legal profession which complements the objectivity of legal proceedings, research and the practice of law.

     

    Did you face stiff opposition from your friends about becoming a lawyer? What were your objectives when you thought about law while still in the preliminary years of Law College?

    Law has always offered more career opportunities than what is commonly known. By the time I joined NUJS, law was fast picking up as a lucrative career choice. Legal profession was evolving in every way. There was a huge demand for smart, young lawyers. NUJS is regarded as one of the premier law colleges in India and was naturally getting good placements then. Our alumni were making a mark in the industry. Some were doing exceptionally well as litigators. My friends did not really have much of a say about me becoming a lawyer but most of them were happy seeing me try out something different.

    Time at NUJS was fun. I never focused much on extracurricular activities. I mostly spent my time having regular ‘addaa’ (Bengali for gossip) sessions with friends, reading few books and sleeping. Temperamentally, I was more suited to activities that included reading, thinking and writing as opposed to debating, mooting or head banging with guitars and drum sets, for that matter. For a brief period of time, I was a part of the editorial board of NUJS Law Review (a prestigious law journal published by our college). But that’s it! I preferred to spend just the right amount of energy that was required to maintain decent enough grades to land me a good job in the end. In fact, till my fourth year I hadn’t even figured out what I wanted to do after college. I had few of my own subject preferences though. Thanks to a few outstanding professors at NUJS. I can distinctly remember our Sociology, Jurisprudence, Arbitration, Constitutional law and Contracts lectures to speak of few.

     

    How relevant do you think are internships for a present law student?

    Internships are very important for law students. But internships must be carefully planned and strategized. I feel, former internships add substantive value to one’s CV, which always helps secure better internships latter. Frankly, I don’t think interning in law firms in 1st or 2nd year serves any real purpose. Most of the students get good placements because of few good internships in their 3rd, 4th or 5th year. Well targeted internships help secure a job in a field where the student is genuinely interested in working. It is very important to make the most out of internships done in 4th and 5th years.  I had a liking for taxation laws (indirect tax in particular). With some good luck, I landed an internship at BMR Advisors, Delhi, at the end of 4th year. I was luckier to get a Pre Placement Offer (PPO) after my internship. It is extremely important to make a good impression on your seniors during internships. I have seen many students treating internships casually, especially in their final year which never helps. A student who comes across as an enthusiastic, hard-working, smart, and efficient person who is eager to learn, has a fairly reasonable chance of converting an internship opportunity into a PPO (of course it largely depends on whether the firm is actually looking to hire a fresher at that point of time). This is why I say, internships must be carefully planned and strategized.

     

    How valuable would you say your legal education was at WBNUJS? When did you actually experience the learning curve?

    I had a stellar time in college! It made me the person who I am today, in a lot of different ways. Even though the college is located at the heart of Kolkata, NUJS has a spirit that I feel is completely different from its city. In fact, one could often forget who he/she is in Kolkata, the moment one enters the campus (Yes! Our college does have a small but warm campus). NUJS provides a setting that presents a unique confluence of cultural diversity that one hardly comes across in any other undergraduate college in Kolkata. I met a bunch of exceptionally smart and talented individuals there. The ambience, activities, students and faculty made my transformative five years in college the most memorable experience of my life. NUJS was not just about studies, it taught me a lot about life. Managing studies along with research, paper presentations, internships and editorial work were my initial lessons on time management that I learnt at NUJS. Our Vice Chancellor, Professor Dr. MP Singh was a dynamic and a successful leader who had a completely different approach towards academics. Open book exams and take home papers were things that I had never experienced before. Students learned their subjects independently. Academic curriculum, exam and evaluation patterns were extremely flexible. We never had to stick to a routine text book for our studies. Our professor used to hand-pick reading materials for our courses and honestly, some of the lectures were actually worth attending. But one could not attend classes without being prepared. Some professors gave attendance but asked students to walk out if they were not interested. The academic and policy debates we had in their classes where extremely satisfying and fulfilling. We had an outstanding library and the research databases were topnotch. A lot of emphasis was put on reading, researching and publishing at a regular basis. There were so many things happening in college every day, starting from moots, debates, seminars, workshops to guest lectures. I really miss them now! I had the good fortune of attending lectures given by few bright young faculty members like, Dr. Prabhash Ranjan, Dr. Rukmini Sen, Pritam Baruah, Daniel Mathew and Shamnad Basheer who made a huge impact to the academic culture of NUJS.

    It is true that National Law Universities (NLUs) give students the right exposure to great learning opportunities and career avenues that law students from other colleges would rarely get. However, the learning curve only begins in college. It actually curves once we start off with our professional services. I remember an interesting conversation I was once having with a young IRS officer who was newly posted at a Customs station. I asked him, ‘The law is so vast and complex, don’t you feel bogged down as a fresh officer holding the post of an Assistant Commissioner?’He seemed very confident with his job. He smiled and replied, ‘I don’t need to worry, the chair will teach me everything’. That pretty much sums up the point I am trying to make here.

    Having said that, I do not undermine the education that I received in college in anyway. I think they are by far the most important thing that shaped me as a legal professional in my formative years. Professional experiences definitely help us learn court room antics, negotiation strategies, management and networking skills etc. Yet, unique academic insights provided by a lawyer give him a distinct edge over his peers across any table. I can vouch for that from my own practical experiences!

     

    How important do you think that extra-curricular activities are to a law student?

    The curriculum at NUJS always encourages students to participate in extracurricular activities. These activities include moot courts, debate competitions, essay writing, legal writing and lots more. No matter how much we complained, I feel we received adequate freedom and financial support from college. Such activities help build right attitude towards competition, a zeal for research and develop a skill for formulating arguments and expressing them confidently in front of an audience. Extracurricular activities are required for harnessing desired qualities like confidence building, working in a team, brushing your public speaking skills, managing and coordinating with your peers. However, making these activities mandatory eliminates the fun elements completely. I feel a student should be free to make a choice whether to moot/debate or just write articles or publish papers. Thankfully, NUJS never made them mandatory.

     

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    How was your work as an indirect tax lawyer at BMR Advisors Pvt. Ltd.? Tell us what a typical day at work was like for you?

    The year after graduation is the most defining and challenging time for a fresh law graduate. BMR was my first job and like any ‘first’, BMR experience was special in many ways. I relocated to Delhi after joining office. This was the first time I was actually stepping out of home which was my comfort zone and I was out there, dealing with my problems all on my own. I hardly had any relative in Delhi so my college friends and colleagues quickly became my support system. At the cost of a little embarrassment, for the first time in my life, I would admit having known what feeling ‘home-sick’ could be like.

    Before joining as an associate I had interned with BMR for a month. That helped to an extent. I already knew the system and the people within. People in the Indirect Tax team at BMR were like one small, closely knit family. BMR had a healthy mix of chartered accountants and lawyers and most of the lawyers were from NLUs. Back in 2011, when I joined BMR, the indirect tax team had three associates who were law graduates. Our team specialized in dealing with complex Indirect Tax advisory and litigation assignments. BMR is a hard-core consulting firm. People at BMR have very high work standards. I found them extremely knowledgeable, very smart and competitive. Everyone was a thorough professional, The BMR experience taught me a lot in terms of professionalism.

    First few months at BMR were difficult. I could barely draft a memo let alone handling complex indirect tax transactions and providing advice on tax implications. Reporting to multiple seniors and meeting their stiff deadlines had been a challenge. BMR trained me a lot in terms of working under pressure. As an associate, one is expected to take care of everything. Starting from drafting engagement contracts, ensuring bills are raised on time, draft thoroughly researched memos, prepare legal submissions, reply to notices, draft appeals, prepare presentations for client meetings, field queries from clients, keep tab on key legal developments and updates, keep a tab on all court proceedings for clients, give training sessions for team members and the list just goes on. Just name it, and the associate is expected to do it all. I have been very lucky for my seniors had always been there to help me out wherever I would get stuck. I will forever be indebted to two of the sweetest persons I met in BMR, Anshul Aggarwal and Saurabh Agarwal. They were my mentors, my role models and guides. Without their patience, guidance and support, I could never have been where I am today.

    A typical day at BMR would start with me reaching office by 9:30, having breakfast and a small chat with my colleagues. After that, I would usually sit with seniors to discuss my to-dos and set about completing assigned tasks within agreed timelines (BMR is very particular about timelines!). All of us would break for lunch, usually between 1:00-1:30 P.M. My colleagues and I would go for a short stroll outside office post lunch (That was, by the way, the best part of the day! Especially during the winters in Delhi). Post that, I would mostly be found perched up against my chair and profusely typing out deliverables on my laptop to get them done on time. Leaving office would mostly depend on the amount of work one had to complete in a day.

    However, the best/worst part of a consulting firm is that you are always on your toes. One could never guess how a typical day would pan out for him or her. “Urgent” deliverables, client queries and meetings could pop up like a surprise at any given time and one has to deal with them along with their regular work.

     

    What would you suggest a fresh law graduate should do to hold spirit and utilise the opportunities available in his first year of graduation?

    First: Get your basics right! You are expected to know the law, where to find it and how to use it without wasting much time.

    Second: Be clear as to what you are expected to do. Ask questions and clarify all your doubts before you start working on any deliverable. This was one lesson I learnt a hard way when I was an associate. One should never start working on a project without being clear about their senior’s expectations. Be it in terms of content or timelines, you must discuss it all with your senior before you start your work. That saves your time and your senior’s time as well.

    Third: Don’t shy away from challenges. Get out of your comfort zone and push yourself to do something you have never done before. That’s the only way one can grow as a professional and I feel, this is a ‘must have’ trait for a lawyer.

     

    Currently, you work as an Assistant Manger- Indirect Taxes at PwC. What prompted you to make this choice and what made this shift possible? How did your appointment take place?

    I always found Mumbai to be a better city to live in, as compared to Delhi. The opportunity of moving to Mumbai from Delhi was a decisive factor for making the decision to switch. Most of my friends and relatives stay in Mumbai and that made a lot of difference to me. Besides, BMR focused mostly on advisory and litigation assignments. I had very little exposure to compliance. I wanted to have a job with a healthy mix of compliance, advisory and litigation and PwC offered them all. I met Abhishek Rastogi (who was a Senior Manager at PwC Mumbai back in 2012), at an event in Delhi. We started chatting up and I discovered that there was vacancy for my post, with the exact job profile that I was looking for. I suggested that I was interested in joining. This followed up with an interview with the Indirect Tax head of PwC in Delhi and I landed my second job at PwC Mumbai.

     

    We would love to hear about your work profile. What is a normal workday like? Please tell us a little about the responsibilities you have been entrusted with. What kind of legal work do you get there?

    At PwC, I look after clients from Pharmaceutical and Financial Services sector. A normal work day at PwC is pretty much the same as BMR. However, at PwC the clients repose a lot of responsibility on us. Apart from advising clients on tax issues we are also accountable for their tax compliances. However, my seniors have been very kind to give me a free hand in terms how I choose to deal with my clients and plan my work, as long as the work gets done. I have a team of juniors to assist me on my projects.

    My role as an Assistant Manager involves advising clients on various tax positions, review regular compliances like filing returns, and refund claims, review or draft submissions to be made to revenue authorities, prepare reply to show cause notices, appeals before Commissioner (Appeals) and tax Tribunals, represent clients before tax authorities and various appellate forums.

     

    What were the biggest hurdles and challenges in the first few months? What have been your failures and successes? How did you deal with them?

    Every organization has their unique set of work culture, drafting style, format for deliverables, approach to clients and work. For the first few months, it is extremely important to learn the new essentials and unlearn old habits that do not comply with scheme of work of the new employer.

    Success and failures are a part of life and its best dealt with an objective bent of mind. I always believe in celebrating my success with my colleagues and friends and keep the bad experiences from failures to myself, try and learn from it and never repeat them again. Also, it helps to pass on experiences of failures to juniors so that they do not commit the same mistakes.

    Working with numbers, accounts and tax issues, one could go wrong quite often, and to top it, one may not even realize it immediately. At times, circumstances are beyond our control.  The consequences may leave you with a bad aftertaste but it is important to realize it’s not the end of the world. Similarly, winning and losing a case is a part of the game and its best that we do not take occasional failures to our hearts.

     

    What are the primary essentials of an indirect tax lawyer? What is the current scenario of studying indirect tax law as a career option in India?

    A tax lawyer needs to have all the basic skills that any lawyer is expected to have. It is also essential to have a good understanding of accounts. Tax, as a subject, evolves every day. It is very important to stay up-to-date with latest provisions. Fresh graduates aspiring to join the tax profession should not only have a good understanding of existing tax provisions but also understand how laws have evolved over the years. This comes in really handy while handling old tax disputes. I would also encourage them to take lessons on Microsoft Excel and PowerPoint. These are basic skills expected out of any fresher at a multinational accounting firm like PwC and most law graduates (including me) struggle with them in their early days.

     

    Tell us about your work mantra? What do think are the most essential things required to excel at work?

    Keep a positive outlook towards life. Give your best effort on each assignment and believe in your dreams.

     

    What are the qualities which PwC look for in interns and associates?

    Unlike BMR, I have not seen PwC Mumbai offering short internships to too many law interns. However, PwC does hire law students as full-time analysts. We have students from various law colleges from Mumbai who work with us as full-time resources. Interested candidates can get in touch with the HR. We look for candidates with a fair exposure to tax laws, good drafting skills and a positive attitude. But of course, requirements may vary depending on specific job profiles for which a candidate is being selected.

     

    What are your future plans from here on?

    As of now, I feel I have lots to learn. Hence, I would like to stick around for a while. But you never know what future beholds!