Super Lawyer

Category: Interviews

  • Rajesh Kumar, Legal Associate, Sanjay Leela Bhansali Films, on a legal career in Bollywood

    Rajesh Kumar, Legal Associate, Sanjay Leela Bhansali Films, on a legal career in Bollywood

    Rajesh Kumar is a lawyer who specializes in Media & Entertainment law. He graduated from Symbiosis Law School, Pune in 2011. While in law school, he also pursued a Diploma in Intellectual Property Rights from the Asian School of Cyber Law, Pune. He has interned with the Aditya Birla Group, Singhania and Co. and Mr. Gaurav Pachnanda (Advocate at the Supreme Court). Upon graduating, he started working at Lex Legal Advocates & Solicitors, Mumbai before joining Sanjay Leela Bhansali Films Pvt. Ltd.

    In this interview he talks about:

    • Pursuing a career in Media and Entertainment Law
    • Working at Sanjay Leela Bhansali Films Pvt. Ltd.
    • Litigating the Ram Leela case

     

    Tell us something about yourself. Where did you grow up and attend school? What were your reasons for taking up law? Explain briefly how you made it to law school?

    I grew up in a village on the border of Jammu (J&K). Despite its geographical location and its political unrest in my region, my parents always believed in education and its power and always encouraged me to break these shackles and my mettle. My father secured my education at the nearest Army school.  It was only an unflinching spirit and ambition to pursue law which was a constant guiding force to educate myself.

    After high school, I had no choice but to leave home in order to pursue law, I had managed to find an institution in Jodhpur that would train me for the entrance examination, although I could not pay their fees upfront but it was only my belief in my ambition to study law that sustained me through huge struggle to educate myself.

    It was not a cakewalk for my parents to teach me at a reputed college like Symbiosis, but it was only their support, encouragement and blessings that could transform me from a village boy to a lawyer in metropolitan city. My law education has undoubtedly instilled in me the confidence to speak out without fear and deal with all the challenges courageously.

     

    You graduated with a BA.LL.B from Symbiosis Law School, Pune in 2011. How was your law school experience?

    Graduating with a B.A. LL.B, from Symbiosis was a dream come true. Before I was granted my scholarship by the Central Government, my family made tremendous sacrifices to fund my dream education.  Symbiosis Law School has played an important role in shaping me and my career; I would say Law School has changed me. I could see a dramatic transformation in my personality after having perused law education from Symbiosis. I was not merely a dreamer but a real achiever. Law school has been truly instrumental in my education to being a lawyer.

    I would give faculty members the credit for where I am today in my career. Each individual I have met in law school has impacted me in some way, and I cherish the collective experience. Through a combination of hard work, ambition and support I fulfilled my lifelong dream of becoming a lawyer. My experiences have taught me that if I have to achieve something no obstacle can refrain you from achieving success in life.

     

    rajesh-kumar-1

    In addition to your regular studies, you also completed a Diploma in Intellectual Property Rights from the Asian School of Cyber Law, Pune. What were your reasons for taking up this course?

    I was introduced to the Legal Head of Balaji Telefilms by a mentor during my initial years of law study. Media and Entertainment law is a niche area, which caught my interest after meeting Mr Sidhu. Since then I started working with special dedication towards Intellectual Property Law, leaving no stone unturned to achieve the most in-depth knowledge in this field. Today, due to following my passion, I am a professional Copyright lawyer (Media & Entertainment law). I find that my diploma education has given me a competitive edge over others in this field.

     

    You interned in the legal department of the Aditya Birla Group, Mumbai. How did you secure your appointment? What should one keep in mind while applying to a conglomerate like ABG?

    I secured my internship with ABG due to my persistence in following up with them. I cannot stress enough how much I learnt through this experience and strongly endorse the same tenacity in every student of law.

     

    You also interned at Singhania and Co., and later on Mr. Gaurav Pachnanda, Advocate Supreme Court of India, New Delhi. What are the main differences in interning at a law firm and an in-house legal department of a company?

    My internship with Mr. Gaurav Pachnanda was a great learning experience, to describe this personality and my learning from him I must say “a new broom sweeps well but the experienced one knows all the corners”. Under his guidance, I would attend Court, sit in on arbitration matters, and all of this instilled confidence within me. He continues to be my mentor, especially with regard to litigation/arbitration matters. His guidance during the Ram- Leela litigations is truly commendable. I would say, the chief difference interning at a law firm versus interning in a legal department of a company is the first hand litigation experience and the sense of the court room that a lawyer gains.

     

    Upon graduating, you started working at Lex Legal Advocates & Solicitors, Mumbai, where you assisted them in work pertaining to cases of IPR, media and entertainment laws. Can you please describe your experience?

    Lex Legal gave me exposure to Media and Entertainment work i.e drafting, vetting actors, directors, writers, agree and also co-production agreements, which play an important role in film. I also attended briefs on Intellectual property issues within the Industry, which increased my thirst to know more.

     

    How is an average day in the life at Sanjay Leela Bhansali Films Pvt. Ltd.?

    My work revolves around drafting agreements, acquisition, assignment of rights, cast and crew, master service agreements, talent management, remake rights, distribution filing for trademarks and dispute resolution work.

    My day starts at 10AM with drafting, vetting and reviewing agreements, keeping an eye on  litigation proceedings (if any), conference with lawyers wherever we have pending litigations, also in advising and representing the company before various forums and courts. My main work focuses on the legal issues surrounding the field of media entertainment, especially films and music. I keep close contact with its developments in and across the industry followed with the Court order on the Film and its releases especially with respect to content of the Film or with Intellectual Property rights related issues. Secondly, after joining SLB Production, I am very much concerned with the maximum protection of IP created at Sanjay Leela Bhansali Films so far including copyright, trade mark etc, specially the trade mark of all our titles. Every fresh day is a good learning experience where I get to learn many new things.

     

    rajesh-kumar-3

    During the release of the film Ram Leela, there were many stay orders and litigations over the release of the Film, can you share your experience in handling litigation and getting the film released on its scheduled date?

    Ram Leela’s release was a hectic and a stressful time, as there was a fresh case filed against the film and Sanjay Sir, Ranveer, Deepika Padukone and Priyanka Chopra. It was quite a challenging task to handle the litigation, though we fought and finally procured favourable orders for us. Usually, during the release of each film we produce there is a feeling of completeness, accomplishment, as we head on for premier, music launch parties, etc.

    However, the Ram Leela litigations caused me to miss every event we had of the film. I still remember before the release, we had a big premier at night, but unfortunately, there was news on all TV news channels about the stay order being passed by Karkarduma Court, Delhi. On the same day, there was another matter lined up at Bombay high Court. This should give you an idea of how stressful yet rewarding such an experience can be. But I am happy the “Ram- Leela” litigation has set the bar in judging the question of obscenity and the sensitivity of religious sentiment as a matter of pre-release film litigation. Delhi High Court in one of our matters said, “that freedom of expression is of inestimable value in a democratic society based on the rule of law and that the effect of words, title and scenes in a film has to be judged from the standards of a reasonable strong minded, firm and courageous man and not from that of a weak and vacillating mind”.

     

    Is a strong base in contract law necessary to succeed in media and entertainment, insurance, infrastructure laws?

    Contract law plays an important role in all commercial laws, and is the basis of contracts in the Media Entertainment field too. A thorough study of contract law is much required. One must know the essential elements of a valid contract before even working on any given contract.

     

    Generally speaking, do you think studying in a non-NLU has placed you at any kind of disadvantage in your career?

    No, not at all once you are practicing law, you are judged based on your knowledge in your chosen speciality and not by the college you attended.

     

    Lastly, what are your plans for the future? What message would you like to leave for our readers?

    My plans for the future include reaching my potential, and perhaps exceeding it, in the field of Media and Entertainment law.  I have personally experienced that nothing is unachievable in this world. If you can dream it you can do it, therefore one must dream, believe in himself and the rest will follow. Lastly, I would say, to achieve, we must not only act but also dream, not only plan, but also believe.”

  • Harshavardhan Jogdand, Senior Legal Manager, Volkswagen, on being an in-house counsel and pursuing an LL.M while working

    Harshavardhan Jogdand, Senior Legal Manager, Volkswagen, on being an in-house counsel and pursuing an LL.M while working

    Harshavardhan Jogdand graduated from Pune University in 2006. He is currently a Senior Legal Manager at Volkswagen Group. After graduation, he joined Pratap Pardeshi Associates immediately while simultaneously pursuing a regular two-year LL.M from Bharati Vidyapeeth University, Pune. Therafter, he joined Triton Group as Manager-Corporate Legal. He subsequently joined Bata India Ltd. as Legal Manager of the Western Region.

    In this interview he talks about:

    • Pursuing an LL.M while working at Pratap Pardeshi Associates
    • Working at Bata India Ltd.
    • Being Senior Legal Manager at Volkswagen Group

     

    Given that most of our readers are law students and young lawyers, how will you introduce yourself to them? What motivated you to choose law as a career?

    I’m a passionate, self-motivated and result oriented legal professional working with one of the biggest automobile companies in the world i.e. Volkswagen. Initially, I admitted myself to the three year law course (LL.B) merely as a backup option, while I was preparing for Civil Services Examination (UPSC Exams). However, since the very first lecture of LL.B. I found the legal profession fascinating and it took me very little time to realise that it was my true calling. I never looked back since then and pursued a career in law wholeheartedly.

     

    Being a science graduate, did you face any difficulties in law school? Can you share with us certain tips to overcome the issues science students face with law?

    That is true to some extent as we Science graduates are not good when it comes to writing long answers. We are tuned to more of 2+2=4 kind of thinking; but on the contrary in the legal field you need to be more elaborative and descriptive. This is the only problem I as science student faced during this change of stream. Apart from this one issue, a science background is in fact a blessing, as Science and Law are both fields which demand logic and analytical skills and Science stream develops these two qualities to their maximum.

    I took help of the technique of creating ‘mind maps’ while studying and preparing notes, which helped me to graphically summarise concepts and laws. It helped me navigate through different concepts and laws, find connections between them and also to comprehend the content from books in a better way. I would also like to say that citing case laws and their Ratio is extremely important and all law students must develop the habit of reading citations and including them while writing answers. This is not only helpful in scoring marks but it is a vital process if you get into litigation as a practising attorney in future.

     

    Tell us something about your college life. Which activities did you participate in? What were your areas of interest during your graduation? How did you go about developing expertise and knowledge in these areas?

    As we all believe college days are the best days of anyone’s life when it comes to fun, but for me those were also intellectually stimulating days which equipped me to face the professional world after my degree. As a law student one must be open to challenging set ideas and indulge into debates to shape up one’s personality. I participated in moot courts as researcher which helped me to understand the importance of thorough preparation and research. Thankfully I had a bunch of friends who were all very strong individuals and we used to have debates on various topics all days long and I must say all those debates in the classroom and even outside of it over cups of Chai helped us to sharpen our articulation skills.

    Amongst all the areas of law, Criminal law was and is my most favourite area of law till date. I was lucky enough to have eminent practicing lawyers from Pune as my teachers who not only taught me the theory of law, but also dissected the laws and uncovered their actual implementation. Their ‘out of the box’ approach of focusing on ‘application of law in real life situations’ helped me to understand the ‘reality’ beyond books. Once I realised my penchant towards criminal law, I started attending court hearings in Pune on a regular basis. Out of the many trials I attended, I remember Charge Framing in Abdul Karim Telgi’s Case very vividly. Law students must grab every opportunity they get to visit courts during their student years.

     

    harshavardhan-jogdand-2

    Many lawyers say that the first year after graduation is the most difficult year for young lawyers. How was your first year after graduation? How did you learn the ropes and what were the biggest challenges you faced?

    I agree that the first year is the most difficult year financially if you don’t associate with any law firm which will pay you a remuneration and work with individual attorneys but I would like to assert that the first year is also the most enriching year as far as the learning is concerned. For me, the first year was the most exciting period as I learnt something new about the legal field every day and felt the daily thrill of affixing the logo of attorney on my vehicle; wearing a black coat and appearing before various courts truly fulfilling. One of the biggest challenges for me in this first year was to accept the hard realities of the Court system which largely involved the issue of grass roots corruption and I must say it was not an easy thing for me to accept. I categorically avoided becoming a part of any such transaction and used to walk out of court after my part in court proceedings was over so I somehow managed to avoid the corrupt practices that unfortunately exist at the grass roots level of our judicial system.

     

    You had started working at Pratap Pardeshi and Associates right after graduation, and thereafter you joined Triton Group as a Manager- Corporate Legal. What led to this shift? Please tell us about your work experience at both these places.

    I joined Pratap Pardeshi and Associates immediately after my graduation. In fact immediately one week after finishing of final year exam as I did not want to miss out on the excitement of attending courts. Funnily enough, I soon found out that it was the vacation time for Court for transfer of various judges, due to which most of the JMFC (Junior Magistrate First Class) and Sessions courts adjourned matters.

    The two years that I worked with Pratap Pardeshi and Associates were very enriching and fulfilling for me as I learnt the ropes of being a practising lawyer. My time with Pratap Pardeshi and Associates still remains the foundation of my career. It is really critical to get a mentor who will give you freedom and also teach you the nuances of the legal field. I will always be thankful to Mr. Pratap Pardeshi who taught me take my first step in the legal field. My two years as a litigation attorney were full of excitement as I got to become part of various trials as defense attorney including one rare Court Martial proceeding wherein I was associate advocate on record along with Mr. Pratap Pardeshi who was the leading Defense Advocate on records of the proceedings.

    After two years I felt that it was time for me to be practical and become financially stable by shifting to an in-house legal job. Opportunity knocked on my doors in the form of a position with Trition which happened to be a multi-million FMCG Multinational which was in the process of setting up its India Operations. It was the first interview of my life and after two thorough rounds I was selected as the first recruit in the Corporate Legal Department of Triton. I was hired as Legal Trainee and rose to level of Manager Legal within a short span of one and half year. My reporting authority Mr. Vincent Fernandez who is the Executive Director of Triton Group not only gave me the freedom to work as per my conviction but also entrusted me with setting up the entire legal department. I was asked not only to consider the legal aspect of work but also the business side of working. Triton provided me exposure to legal work in a corporate which I was completely unaware of as a practicing attorney. In Triton I was instrumental in setting up Contract Management System, litigation management and standardization of various agreements which included Franchisee Agreements, Non-Disclosure agreements, and Employment agreements for locations outside the geographical territories of India more specifically West Africa and Europe. Obviously I had to identify and work with local attorneys which also added invaluable experience of coordinating with foreign attorneys. Considering the growing ambit of work I recruited one Company Secretary and one more legal professional in my team and we effectively handled the Corporate Legal Function for Triton with guidance and effective leadership of Mr. Vincent Fernandez.

     

    You left Triton Group to join Bata India Ltd. as a Legal Manager of West Region. What motivated this shift? What does it take to a get job at Bata India at that stage?

    After setting up the processes and the entire corporate legal function for Triton Group and working with Triton for more than three years I thought I was ready for a bigger and more challenging position and I was approached for an opportunity with retail giant Bata India, as their Regional Legal Manager (West Region) My two rounds of interviews with Bata were very tough and was a completely different experience from my earlier interview with Triton as the questions were more technical and situation based. I was asked questions based on case studies and it was as they call a “grilling” interview session after which I was selected by then legal and secretarial head of Bata India Mr. A.B. Anand.

     

    At all the three places you worked, was the work similar or did you have to learn new skills every time you joined a new place?

    Work at all these three places has been completely different. At Pratap Pardeshi and Associates, I was working purely as a litigation attorney wherein I had to undertake court appearance, preparing pleadings, interacting with Police and other agencies.

    Triton was a foray into the corporate sector wherein I had to undertake working within deadlines, drafting/vetting agreements, more of non-lit as we call it, wherein I had to focus more on drafting legal documents, legal research, standardisation of processes etc., which was a completely different experience than the litigation experience I earlier had. I had to increase my reading considerably more to understand the nuances of legal drafting and it proved more than helpful in my growth as a legal professional.

    Working with Bata was extremely challenging as my role in Bata involved more of making strategies in existing litigations and handling legal matters in five states namely Maharashtra, Madhya Pradesh, Gujarat, Chhattisgarh and Goa in the entire region. My profile in Bata involved more of labour laws and rent laws related work which I had never done in my earlier career. I had to revisit all the applicable provisions of relevant Acts applicable to understand the nitty-gritty of these litigations and to define strategies for successfully dealing with them. My profile also had a hint of Industrial relations wherein I was required to communicate and deal with various government authorities including the Hon’ble Labour Minister and secretaries of state etc. However, the most challenging yet interesting part of my tenure in Bata was tactfully handling very aggressive Labour Union representatives and successfully avoiding conflicts with them and conducting a long due domestic enquiry.

     

    harshavardhan-jogdand-1

    How did you manage to take out time for a regular two-year LL.M. from Bharati Vidyapeeth University, Pune while working at Pratap Pardeshi and Associates? Please share with us.

    I used to visit the University on weekends and meet the lecturers on a regular basis to understand the progress of the syllabus. I relied a lot on self-study, on weekends and also during holidays I would like to mention the role of my mentor Adv. Pratap Pardeshi who was always kind in granting me leaves for attending LL.M. exams. Without his help it would have been very difficult for me to manage practice and LL.M.

     

    What are the highlights of your career till joining Volkswagen? How did you decide to leave Bata and join Volkswagen?

    As I have mentioned above, participating in the Court Martial proceedings as Associate Advocate on record during my days with Pratap Pardeshi and Associates, setting up the entire Corporate Legal Department in Triton, reducing number of litigations in Bata drastically were few highlights of my career till I joined Volkswagen.

    I have always been very passionate about vehicles/automobiles and Volkswagen is one of largest automobile companies in the world so I couldn’t let the opportunity go and Mr. Vijay Kamath who’s the “Legal Head and Company Secretary” at Volkswagen conducted my interview and after a brief interview I was offered position of Legal Manager at VW.

     

    You currently work as a Senior Legal Manager at Volkswagen Group. What qualities do you think helped you to achieve this status?

    Being process driven and result oriented has always helped me a lot throughout my career. The same qualities continue to be driving forces for my work. Also being proactive and taking lead in difficult situations gives me an added advantage.

    One must always remember quality of work is more important than the quantity of work. Hence, the quality of work should never be compromised.

     

    Many lawyers would say that the actual learning takes place in the years of practice. How far would you say it is true? What was the case in your situation?

    It is all about perception and how you look at it. Having exposure to practice is definitely helpful but it is not the only factor that determines the growth of a legal professional. The dynamics of the legal field over the years have changed, the legal field is not only restricted to court room dramas and theatrics therein but it is now also about board rooms and power points. We as legal professionals have to respect both the aspect of our profession. One cannot undermine the importance of other. For me exposure to legal practice is equally important as exposure to in house legal jobs.

     

    What is a workday like for you? Has work settled into a predictable pattern or are there new challenges every day?

    A typical workday consists of internal meetings with our brand teams (departments) gathering relevant data, information, for preparing pleadings in our litigations as at VW we have a rare practice of preparing pleadings in house which not many in house legal teams follow. It is followed by coordinating with external attorneys and thoughtful and insightful discussions with Mr. Kamath. Work at VW is never short of excitement as the challenges we face keep on changing on a regular basis and hence I would say the feeling of stagnancy has not yet come to surface in last three years.

     

    How do you manage to strike a balance between your personal and professional life?

    On the days when I’m on leave I do not think about my office or work I enjoy family time thoroughly and when I’m in office I do not let my personal life affect professional choices and decisions. I would like to make a special mention of our Human Resource policies and VW and Mr. Kamath who always encourage us to take our entitled leaves so that we can have a proper personal and professional life balance.

     

    How important would you say are business development skills at such higher roles?

    Without business development skills it is very difficult to climb up the ladder. Hence, I would say business development skills are equally important as your technical knowledge. Our work as in house legal professionals must serve the business purpose well and we need to be imaginative and creative enough to alter our advice as per the need of the business within the frame work of regulations.

     

    The question that whether one should specialise in a particular area of law or be more of a general lawyer often comes up before law students. What is your opinion on the same?

    If you see yourself as a practising attorney then it is better to focus on one practice area than focusing on entire legal field. However, if you see yourself as an in-house general counsel you need to be open for doing all the possible work that comes your way.

     

    Is there anything you would like to have done differently?

    There are many things that come to mind with this question but in particular I would have definitely liked to complete my Master’s Degree from any of the universities in the United Kingdom as it would definitely have increased exposure and knowledge levels.

     

    What does Volkswagen look for in their prospective employees and interns?

    At the moment Volkswagen Group does not take interns in the legal department. We at VW call ourselves “VW type” which means you need to be technically good, proactive, result oriented and most importantly possess very a strong ethical value system.

     

    What would be your message to our readers who are budding lawyers and law students?

    Keep your eyes and ears open all the time. Be open to all the new experiences coming your way. Don’t be afraid to challenge set ideas and put forward your opinions strongly irrespective of any amount of criticism you get.

  • Shine Joy, Deputy Manager-Legal, Snapdeal, on work as in-house counsel

    Shine Joy, Deputy Manager-Legal, Snapdeal, on work as in-house counsel

    Shine Joy graduated from Guru Gobind Singh Indraprastha University in 2008 and had thereafter worked with various law firms including MV Kini & Co., Akash Chittranshi & Associates and Ranjan Narula Associates (Part of Rouse & Co. International). He also holds an experience of an Assistant Manager- Legal at DLF Utilities Ltd. He currently works as a Deputy Manager – Legal at Snapdeal.

    Over here, he talks about:

    • The appropriate time in law school to undertake internships
    • Making the switch from a law firm to a company
    • Why it is okay and even desirable to change multiple jobs
    • Working at e-commerce giant Snapdeal

     

    What got you into legal studies? Was it all planned or something that just happened by chance?

    It was pure chance! I come from a typical south Indian family who would have loved an engineer son; so pursuing law as a career option was never on the table as such. However, a chance interaction with a friend made me think about law as an option.

     

    How was your experience at GGSIPU? What activities were you involved in apart from the regular academic curriculum?

    College days can never be anything but good; especially when you are in a law college which is located close to CP, GK and other hot spots for youngsters in Delhi

    (GGSIPU and my college – ‘University School of Law and Legal Studies were located in Kashmere Gate Campus when I was pursuing law; it has since been shifted to Dwarka Sec 14.)

    Apart from regular academic curriculum I was involved with the college Moot Court Society because of which I had the privilege of representing my college in four moots court competitions. I was also a member of the editorial board of the University magazine – ‘Adamya’.

     

    What were your major interests as a student of law? Any suggestions for the law students on how to deal with the Pandora box of laws?

    I was very much interested in Intellectual Property Laws during my college days. Fortunately during those days the law relating to trademarks & copyrights were being constantly debated in the courts across our country. This only fuelled my passion for the same subject.

    I wouldn’t call law a Pandora’s box. It is more of Santa’s sack of toys! What I mean to say is law is such a diverse field with so many subject areas that you have the option of experimenting and zeroing on the one you may fall in love with.

     

    How should one go about the internships? How important it is for a law student to plan out the course of his internships to successfully gain from the internship experience?

    Internships are important as what we learn in college does not completely prepare us for what happens on the ground. Internships do give us a glimpse into the life an actual lawyer lives on a day-to-day basis. However, I would suggest undertaking internships from the 3rd year (of the 5-year course) onwards only since by then one would have studied both the substantive and procedural law. This gives you a better understanding of what is happening in the practice of law.  The idea is to enjoy the fun side of college and academics for the first two years of college while you are also acquainted to law as a subject, then go on to intern and eventually work as a lawyer.

     

    After graduation you worked with various firms including MV Kini & Co., Akash Chittranshi & Associates and Ranjan Narula Associates. How was your experience working at these places?

    MV Kini & Co. gave me the opportunity to intern with them and be involved in an Associate’s work profile even before enrolling as a lawyer, so to continue there as an associate after enrolling was an obvious choice. Also, the firm gave me immense exposure to litigation practice, infrastructure and corporate work. However, I had a keen interest in being an IPR lawyer and was motivated me to join Akash Chittranshi & Co. which was a leading firm in copyright laws.

    The time spent at Akash Chittranshi & Co. equipped me and developed my skills as an IPR lawyer. It is then that I got an offer to join Ranjan Narula Associates (which is an associate office of Rouse & Co. International – an international IP law firm). Letting go of an opportunity to work with the best in industry and amazing international clientele was not something I would even dream of doing. My work experience  at each of these firms have enhanced my skills immensely as lawyer and gave me a chance to work under the guidance and with some of the best lawyers in the business.

     

    Thereafter you joined DLF Utilities Ltd. as an Assistant Manager- Legal. What led to the shift from law firms to a real estate company? How was your experience working there?

    While working as an attorney with Ranjan Narula Associates, I had the privilege of interacting with some of the best in-house counsels in the world. These interactions made me realize that often while advising their clients, lawyers have a myopic view of how businesses look at legal issues faced by them. It is imperative that lawyers should understand the business implications of their advice. So when an opportunity came to work as an in-house lawyer for a leader in real estate business and with seniors who are widely respected for their work, it was difficult to say no.

     

    Currently you work as a Deputy Manager-Legal at Snapdeal. How did the switch from DLF take place?

    Currently I work as Deputy Manager – Legal (got promoted in Oct 2014). I live by the mantra ‘what next? I believe that one should always strive to learn more and more and gain as much experience one can get so that one is moulded into a better professional who can give the best possible advice to his client. Therefore, when I got an opportunity work with Snapdeal – which was a pioneer in the e-commerce sector, I thought that it would be an immensely enriching experience for me as a professional. I would also get to deal with issues in a sector which was both new and fascinating.

    As Snapdeal had chalked out plans of expansion when I was offered the job, the offer was more like a door to hands-on work in a plethora of legal issues that a growing entity would be involved in.

     

    How did your appointment take place? Please tell us about the recruitment process at Snapdeal. What do they look for in their prospective employees?

    I was contacted by the HR department of Snapdeal. The company conducts three rounds of interview before extending an offer to a prospective employee.

     

    What does your current work profile at Snapdeal consist of? How is a typical workday like?

    At Snapdeal I am involved mainly in high stake litigation matters, IPR issues and M&A activities. I also advise on issues pertaining to commercial contracts, advertising and real estate.

     

    Are there new challenges everyday or has work settled into a predictable pattern? Can you tell us about a few of the most challenging problems you have faced so far?

    To my understanding and experience a lawyer’s day at work can never be predicted, each day the nature of issues dealt with and work undertaken are different. As to challenges, every day is welcomed with a new one.

     

    What amount of legal work is there? What have been your failures and successes?

    Almost 95% of my work is legal. Recently, we were successful in defending the company against allegation of anti-competition activities before the Competition Appellate Tribunal.

     

    How do you keep yourself abreast with latest industry news and trends?

    I do so by perusing through standard industry journals, following blogs, attending national and international conferences etc.

     

    Lastly, what would be your parting message for our readers?

    Work is important but having a ‘life’ outside of work is more important.

  • Abhishek Singh on why he decided to join the test prep industry and not a law firm

    Abhishek Singh on why he decided to join the test prep industry and not a law firm

    Abhishek Singh graduated from Ram Manohar Lohiya National Law University in 2014. He was an avid mooter during law school and has represented at the Phillip C. Jessup International Law Moot Court Competition in Washington in 2013. After graduation, he joined CLAT Possible as VP, Academics and Operations. In this interview he talks about:

    • Law school experience at RMLNLU
    • Representing India at Jessup
    • CLAT Possible and the ‘test prep’ industry

     

    Where did you grow up and attend school? Why did you decide to take up law?

    My hometown is Lucknow and I spent my entire childhood there. I studied at Seth M.R. Jaipuria School and graduated in the year 2008 from my school. I took up science with maths after class tenth, which is one decision I regret till date. I was into public speaking and writing all through my school days which is why I wanted to take up humanities after my tenth boards, but finally I gave in to peer pressure and the whole stigma and social perception attached with boys studying art subjects. After writing twelfth boards, I had decided to drop science for  good.

    The elitist NLU’s had become quite a rage already and being a public speaker, I thought law is surely my cup of tea.

     

    You graduated with a degree in law from RMLNLU, Lucknow in 2014. What was your law school experience like?

    My law school experience has been quite exciting and inspiring. My college was three years old when I joined. From being a nascent place which was not very well perceived by the law school fraternity to a point where my college became a respectable and sought after place, the efforts we put in to achieve this milestone is worth a mention. The initial 3-4 batches were the founding stones of my college and we ensured that our juniors reaped the benefits of our endeavours.

     

    abhishek-singh-2

    What activities were you involved in, in law school? What were your main interest areas?

    I was an avid mooter. I participated in various intra and inter-law school moots. My area of interest has primarily been International Law. At this point, I’d like to thank my mentor and senior from college, Siddhartha Singh and my batch mate and moot partner Mohith Pasham, who were instrumental in brushing my concepts in International Law and have been my pillars of support all throughout law school.

     

    You represented India at the Phillip C. Jessup International Law Moot Court Competition in Washington in 2013. Please describe your experience of doing an international moot.

    It was my second shot at Jessup in 2013, Previously, I had participated in 2012 where we ended up as quarter finalists. The second attempt did wonders for us and I realized my long standing dream of representing the college at the US rounds.

    Preparation for a moot like Jessup requires utmost dedication and is very taxing. From our first attempt, we learnt a lot vis-a-vis the strategy that best suits a moot of such magnanimity. Right from the written submissions to the podium, we learnt from our mistakes and worked day in and day out to achieve this milestone.

     

    Please tell us about the internships you completed while in law school.

    My last internship before graduating and taking up a job with CLAT Possible, was with Lakshmikumaran and Sridharan. It was my second stint with the taxation giants and I must say it was a great learning experience.

     

    Upon graduating you joined CLAT Possible as VP, Academics and Operations. Why did you decide to get into the test prep industry? How did you secure your position at CLAT Possible?

    A few months before graduating, my good friend Mr. Debajyoti Das, who was serving as the CEO of CLAT Possible after spending two years at Amarchand Mangaldass, asked me to join him on a part time basis. With nothing much to do in my fifth year, I gave him a nod. Surprisingly, I loved the experience, much more than a desk job stint at all the firms I had previously interned with. My work was appreciated and applauded and I was offered a PPO from Possible Education Ltd., the mother company. The remuneration was lucrative, future prospects seemed promising and I could foresee great growth both in the terms of learning, exposure and monetarily as well.

     

    What does an average day look like in the life of a person in the Test Prep Industry? What does your work profile include?

    Well the job is taxing, but comes along with immense satisfaction. My organisation is the second largest institute in the field of CLAT Test Prep.

    My work profile at CLAT Possible is varied. I take classes for legal aptitude, take workshops branding my institute, propagate aspects of law as a career option in schools across the country. I am also into anchoring and facilitating tie ups with different law schools across the country. So, to cut a long story short, I am into Education Marketing and Academics. We have establishments in over 15 cities and hence travelling is frequent. I love the travelling part, where one gets to meet and observe different people from all corners of the country.

     

    Please tell us the essential skills a law student must possess to work in the test prep industry?

    Well one should have a good command over inter-personal communication and possess the ability to convince and connect with people, especially school students since this industry caters to them.

     

    What advice would you give to law students wishing to take up an alternative career path?

    I wish to spread awareness regarding a very viable career option for law graduates- the Test Prep Industry. Just like leading MBA and engineering Test Prep institutes are run by ex-IITians and IIMites, the law test prep domain can be a great option for law graduates. The field is rewarding with great prospects and one should definitely think of it as a great career option.

     

  • Radhika Seth, Associate, Competition Law, Saikrishna & Associates on pursuing law after B.Com

    Radhika Seth, Associate, Competition Law, Saikrishna & Associates on pursuing law after B.Com

    Radhika Seth completed a B. Com from Delhi University and got placed at KPMG, but having enjoyed studying a few legal subjects during under-graduation, she enrolled herself at the Campus Law Centre evening classes for the three-year law course. She participated in moots, was a part of the student body at DU and made time for numerous internships. Upon graduating, she started working at Saikrishna & Associates in the competition law department.

    Here, she talks about:

    • Comparing the three-year course with the five-year course in law
    • How to manage time between extra-curriculars and academics at law school
    • Being President of the Student Union at Delhi University
    • The field and scope of competition law in India

     

    How would you like to introduce yourself?

    I am a struggling lawyer who aims to be a specialist in competition law. I am currently working as an Associate with the competition law vertical at Saikrishna & Associates.

     

    When and how did you decide to study law? Which universities did you consider for your legal studies? How did you settle for LC-II, DU?

    Law really happened by chance for me, or to put it more philosophically, I feel I was destined to be a lawyer. I wanted to study commerce after school and so I took up B. Com (Hons) at Delhi University. At my under-graduate level, I studied various subjects like business management and accounting but more importantly, mercantile and company law.

    Surprisingly, I got more interested in the law related subjects than the typical commerce related subjects. It was then that I started experiencing a change of heart for law. It so happened that during my third year of B. Com(Hons), I was the first to be placed at KPMG from college and was almost convinced by everyone around me to join it, out rightly. And I did exactly that! But I also, fortunately, gave the law entrance at Delhi University for Faculty of Law during the same year to explore my interest for legal studies.

    I got a good rank to be able to opt for a college of my choice and so I chose Law Centre-II, which is the evening Centre of Faculty of Law, as it allowed me to work at KPMG and simultaneously attend classes in the evening. I pursued both Audit (at KPMG) and Law (as a student in Faculty of law) for six months. This was my transition period when I actually weighed life of an Auditor or someone working as an MBA vis-a-vis the life of a lawyer. And for me, I chose the life of a lawyer for the excitement and the rush that it brings.

    So, frankly, I didn’t consider going to any other college as for a three year law course, Faculty of law is one of the few good options available in this country apart from Government Law College, Mumbai or ILS, Pune.

     

    As a graduate of Delhi University, have you faced any comparison with the NLUs? What would you say to the future graduates of DU regarding this?

    Amongst the alumni of National Law Universities, one would generally feel a bias. They’re sometimes given preference for internships or even jobs. But in the end it’s your work which determines your worth. Of course, National Law Universities provide better opportunities in terms of better funding, infrastructure, exchange programs etc. but if you have the zeal to achieve something and the knack to learn, then no such bias would come in your way. Delhi University has its own charm and different learning opportunities. It sets you free and allows you to think out of the box. I would say, discover these opportunities and make your own way.

     

    How was your first year after graduation? How did you learn the ropes and what were the biggest challenges you faced?

    Generally, first year after graduation seems like a sea change from the college atmosphere that one is used to. For me, it wasn’t that difficult. I started working at KPMG right after B. Com (Hons) and interned all along my law school. By the time I graduated from law school, I was already aware as to what is expected out of a first year law graduate.

    I always took my internships pretty seriously and would try to intern for more than two months at one particular place. This really helped me to work on a particular case thoroughly. As a first year Associate, you’re definitely expected to be a good researcher, a swift learner, someone who is able to adapt to the work environment quickly. In my view, if you take your internships seriously, your first year of work would be the best year.

     

    You were the President of the Student Union at DU. What skills did you hone while managing such a responsibility?

    It was a life changing experience for me! I learnt a lot about people during that period. I organized various programs and events in college during that time, some of them were first-time initiatives. During the process, I interacted with all kinds of people coming from various parts of India and even the world. As a lawyer, it is very important to be able to understand your clients, your seniors and the judge. Being at the highest post a student can hold in Delhi University, made me understand the importance of going to the root of a problem or a given case. This always helps in devising better solutions to a given problem at hand.

     

    How important do you think are extra-curriculur activities in shaping the career of a law student?

    I feel these are pivotal to the development of a law student. While mooting and debating allows a budding lawyer to hone his/her public speaking skills, publications and research papers help in developing researching and reading skills. They also help in getting in-depth and out of textbook knowledge about a topic. These are some qualities which always come handy to a lawyer.

     

    How did you manage to keep up your grades? What are the tips and strategies you would like to share with mooters?

    I always chose those moots which were at least a month before or after my exams. Choosing a moot court competition which has a case problem related to your course curriculum also helps. I am also almost obsessed with pre-planning things. Making a moot calendar and preparing for the exams before-hand would obviously help.

     

    Soon after graduation, you joined Saikrishna and Associates as an Associate. How did your appointment take place? Tell us about the interview process and how did you prepare for it?

    After my graduation, I applied at various places including Saikrishna & Associates. I got interview calls from various places including Saikrishna. I gave one round of interview and was selected to work with the competition law vertical of the firm. For interview preparations, I would just brush up my memory for the core subjects of law such as constitutional law, the CPC and laws pertaining to my areas of interest which are IPR and competition law. During an interview, it’s always much easier if you be yourself, be confident of what you know and be honest in case you’re clueless about a particular question.

     

    What does your current work profile at Saikrishna and Associates consists of? How is a typical workday like?

    I am working as an Associate in the competition law vertical of the firm. My day starts by 10 am and generally doesn’t end before 8 pm. It also sometimes extends to working from home at night. As of now, I have been doing different types of tasks every day. Sometimes, it consists of drafting of an opinion for competition law compliance, giving information, defending your client at the CCI or attending client meetings etc.

     

    radhika-seth-3

    Are there new challenges everyday or has work settled into a predictable pattern?

    In fact, taking from the previous question, I would say there is no typical workday at Saikrishna for me. Almost every day I am learning something new. This is also because competition law is relatively new in India and everyone is grappling with its practical applicability to the evolving nature of business transactions.

     

    What are the primary professional ethics you follow while at work? How do you deal with mistakes or errors?

    I always try to be punctual and geared up for work. It helps me be up-to-date and meet regular deadlines. I keep my seniors informed about the progress of the work and also about any delay before-hand. Replying promptly to e-mails and being honest with your boss always helps in building a good relationship. I try to always concede and own up whenever I make mistakes or errors and I make a note of them on my pin board so that I don’t repeat it again.

     

    Would you say your undergraduate B.Com degree has been helpful in your career?

    Yes, definitely. I still believe that a three year law program is a better call to make. For e.g. in my B.Com degree, I studied about business management, planning and other tools which help in business decision making. As a competition or a corporate lawyer, it is very important to understand the rationale of a particular business decision to further comment upon its legal validity. My B.Com studies have helped me a lot in reading financial statements and understanding decision making techniques.

     

    What kind of internship applications do you think stand out positively and enjoy a much higher likelihood of being accepted?

    I think the CV should reflect some productive activities which the candidate has been doing through law school. It does not necessarily need to be all subject related, it could be some organisational experience or even extra – curricular activities. Participation in moot courts, debate competitions, definitely gives extra brownie points. One is not expected to be consistent in the types of internships, e.g. litigation or corporate, but it is necessary that the CV reflects an effort on the part of the candidate to learn new things.

     

    If you could re-live your 3 years in Law school, is there something you would do differently?

    Not really. It’s the best time of your life and I enjoyed it thoroughly. If anything, I would say I should have enjoyed it even more than I did.

     

    radhika-seth-2

    Where do you see yourself ten years down the line? Do you aspire to be like somebody from this field?

    As I said, I am struggling to be a specialist in Competition law. After ten years, I would like to introduce myself as a specialist in competition law. I like the way Justice Krishna Iyer writes his judgments and I like the swiftness with which Mr. Salve argues. It would be a great achievement for me if I am able to be even a small part of what they are.

     

    What would be your advice to students interested in competition law?

    It is an emerging law in India, very interesting and intriguing. One has a huge scope of growth in this law in India. IPR and competition law make an interesting intersection which is worth studying. Law students interested in competition law should read a lot about the emerging concerns and possibly intern with competition law verticals of firms.

  • Zaid Zain, Associate, General Corporate Practice, AMSS, on law school, pursuing certificate and diploma courses and work

    Zaid Zain, Associate, General Corporate Practice, AMSS, on law school, pursuing certificate and diploma courses and work

    Zaid Zain is an Associate at Amarchand Mangaldas, Chennai. He is a corporate lawyer in their General Corporate Practice Group with a specialized focus on Technology and Media. Zaid graduated from ILS Law College, Pune in 2012.

    Zaid has also done several Diploma Courses including Diploma in Securities and Investment Law, Corporate Finance, Mergers and Acquisitions and Intellectual Property Law. In this interview he talks about:

    • Studying at ILS Law College, Pune
    • The relevance of additional courses
    • Interning and working at Amarchand Mangaldas

     

    How would you introduce yourself? Could you please share a little bit of what motivated you to pursue law as a career?

    My name is Zaid Zain, I am a corporate lawyer in the General Corporate Practice Group of Amarchand and Mangaldas, with a specialized focus on Technology and Media. I have been involved with some M&A deals and have also worked on a few capital market transactions. However, as stated above, my primary focus is on Technology Law, which comprises of drafting software-licensing agreements, ‘software as a service’ agreements (SAAS) and hardware procurement agreements amongst others. I thoroughly enjoy working in the technology space, as I feel it is a thought provoking and trend setting practice area to be in.

    As regards my motivation to do law, throughout my life I have always been interested in the idea of being an advisor / trusted confidant. I always felt that it was both incredibly powerful and highly fulfilling to strategize and find ways to help people / corporations solve problems. I was a regular at debating competitions in school and this experience further helped steering me towards a career in law.

     

    How did you make the initial shift from a science background to law? Would you say it was difficult settling in?

    To be honest, I did not find it difficult at all. I was always sure that I did not want to be an engineer. I didn’t particularly hate science, just that I wanted a career that was more socially oriented. As a lawyer, I love the fact that I get to constantly interact with people from various countries, companies and backgrounds.

    Besides, I feel that my science background gives me better intelligibility while working in the technology arena. I feel that terms, concepts and methodologies related to technology come more intuitively to me because of my science background.  The reality is that we are moving towards an ever more technology centric world. It already touches every aspect of an entity, and going forward I feel that technology law will become a formidable practice area.

     

    zaid-zain-3

    Tell us about your college life at ILS Law College, Pune. Which activities did you partake in? Please tell us about the manner in which you approached academics while in college.

    In all honesty, college was the defining period in my life. It was in college that I truly underwent a transformation from being a dreamer to a go-getter. I had the privilege of being taught contracts by the legendary Mrs. Nilima Bhadbade. I would give her and my other teacher most of the credit for where I am today in my career.

    As for activities, I took part in various moot competitions and excelled in them. It was quite a rewarding experience too. It gave me valuable insight on how to analyze and apply a particular law as opposed to just reading it.

    I was also fortunate to be amongst friends who were intellectually stimulating. We would spend hours debating various legal, political and policy related subjects. This helped me develop the ability to think beyond the realm of normalcy while approaching and analyzing a topic. I also feel group-studies help law students immensely as we could bounce ideas off each other and face our tests/exams with much greater ease.

     

    What were your areas of interest during your graduation? How did you go about developing expertise and knowledge in these areas?

    At ILS, my areas of interest were corporate and securities law. I developed proficiency in these subjects by reading articles and scouring the web for information. I am an information junkie, I spend hours on the internet just researching. Whenever I found any topic difficult to comprehend, I would watch documentaries / videos on those topics and this would help me get a holistic and real world idea on the factors surrounding those topics. I also pursued a few diploma courses that helped me get vital insights into how corporations function and deal with each other.

     

    Did you find that your law school education had prepared you sufficiently for the many tasks you were required to execute during your internships and later at your job?

    Well, my law school education did give me a strong foundation on which I could build the skill sets required to work in a law firm. But as is the case with most professions – you learn as you go. While the subjects taught in college helps one get a grasp of the nature of the work, the real world application can only be understood while dealing with live situations on the job. For example, we all studied about board meeting and shareholders meeting in college, but it’s only when you work on the content of such meetings and its real world repercussion that you truly appreciate the value and criticality of such meetings.

     

    Currently, you work as an Associate at AMSS, Chennai. How did your appointment take place? What worked for you in securing the job?

    I had previously interned with Amarchand at their Chennai office. During my internship, I got the opportunity to get to know and work with the partner and associates in the office. I worked for them tirelessly and displayed the dedication and commitment required to meet their expectations. I spent long hours in the office and diligently executed whatever responsibilities I was tasked with. I also got along very well with the partner and associates in the office. By the end of my internship, I felt like I was part of their team. While I did not get the job immediately, I was promised a position as soon as a vacancy opened up and in less than a year or so, I got the break that I wanted.

     

    How was your first year after graduation? What do you think were the biggest hurdles and challenges in the early days of your career? How did you deal with them?

    The first year I would say was the toughest. That is the time when one makes the transformation from passively just studying law to actively practicing it. The biggest hurdle I would say is understanding various legal concepts and the manner and methodology involved in applying such concepts to a given situation. I found it difficult to go through volumes of documents and analytically process them within those stringent deadlines.

    However, the more I worked the simpler it became. I figured out shortcuts and methods to execute the work given to me quickly and resourcefully. I understood time is a big factor in this business, and how critical it is to prioritize matters that involved more risk and forego ones that drag down efficiency.

     

    What are the primary professional ethics you follow while at work? How do you deal with mistakes or errors?

    Contrary to popular belief, I feel that law and ethics go hand in hand. One must take responsibility for the work undertaken by them and never push someone else under the bus. This according to me is the most imperative ethical value for a lawyer to have. Also, one must always try to do their best for the client no matter what the situation. At no point should the client suffer due to any problems or issues that are personal to the lawyers working on a matter.

    Mistakes and errors are part and parcel of being a corporate lawyer. No lawyer is above mistakes regardless of his social standing. The key is to remember those mistakes and not repeat them in the future. There are days when a draft sent out is cleared instantly while on others there would be errors on the simplest of tasks. To sum up, one should not linger too much on mistakes and should be able to quickly adapt and move on.

     

    While in law school, you have also pursued many courses. Was it a professional requirement to enhance more in your career?

    While in college I had pursued various Diploma Courses including Diploma in Securities and Investment Law, Corporate Finance, Mergers and Acquisitions and Intellectual Property Law.

    To a certain extent I did undertake those diplomas to enhance my CV and add value to my profile. At the same time, I also wanted to know and understand these areas of law, as I found them to be fundamental to the functioning of corporations.

     

    Please comment on the quality and structure of these courses. How much practical knowledge did you gain from it?

    I would say the quality of the courses was very good. Every lecture was very focused on the practical aspects of the topics. Most concepts were taught using case studies and I found this to be especially helpful. Also, the classes were very interactive and the Professors were keen on getting the students point of view on. This sort of interactive platform was very enriching and helped me get a deeper understanding whilst clearing a lot of doubts that I had.

     

    There is a considerable attrition rate at the top law firms, what do you think contributes to this? What has been your personal experience?

    I feel the attrition rate could be due to many reasons. Most people quit for personal reasons such as marriage, migration, sabbaticals etc. Others leave because they feel they want to jump in-house, change practice areas and sometimes even get into other career paths. In my experience, I have seen more of the former than the latter.

     

    Tell us about a case that you are particularly proud of. What steps do you take to prepare for a difficult case?

    There was this one capital market deal we did. It was one of the first QIPs after the New Companies Act kicked in. It was an exhilarating month where my colleagues and I spent countless days (and nights) working on the matter together. We were all quite exhausted by the end of it. However, once the deal launched we could not have been more thrilled and content.

     

    What is the current scenario of studying corporate law as a career option in India? What are the key qualities one should posses for becoming a corporate lawyer?

    I would say that the current scenario is ideal for a student to pursue corporate law. If there was one thing I could change it would be to include in the study of corporate law, lessons on the practical application of corporate and commercial hypotheses.

    I would say the key qualities one should possess for becoming a corporate lawyer are: (a) an analytical mind; (b) diligence at tasks; and (c) social skills. Sometimes, the greatest of solutions would be hidden in inconspicuous nuances. Therefore, a strong focus and attention to detail are also essential qualities for a corporate lawyer. Most importantly, one must also remain humble throughout their profession – keeps your eyes on the stars but your feet on the ground.

     

    What are the other related fields where a corporate lawyer can try hand apart from joining law firms and corporate houses?

    I would say public relations, management consultancy, policy and journalism are all fields that a corporate lawyer could excel in. It could also be a solid gateway to politics.

     

    Life for lawfirmites can be very hectic at times. What is your take on work-life balance? How do you unwind?

    Yes, it is a fairly accurate assessment that life can get very hectic for a corporate lawyer. While I do enjoy the thrill of having a fast paced life and a busy schedule; it can also be taxing at times. It is therefore imperative, that you make time to do the things you love and also make time for your loved ones. True to any profession, having a good work life balance is pivotal to feeling satisfied as a corporate lawyer.

    I unwind by watching movies and documentaries that engage me. I am also a big foodie and love going for a good meal, so I try to do that as often as possible. Occasionally, I attend social gatherings and find myself enjoying meeting and networking with people from diverse backgrounds.

     

    What would be your parting message to law students who want to be successful in corporate law?

    My advice to law students would be -Develop the quality of truly understanding the stuff taught to you and visualize ways in which it can be applied to real-life situations. Cultivate a ‘never give up’ attitude and have the courage to persevere against all odds.

     

  • Vatsal Gaur, Associate, Khaitan & Co., on receiving PPOs, induction and work at top law firms

    Vatsal Gaur, Associate, Khaitan & Co., on receiving PPOs, induction and work at top law firms

    Vatsal Gaur graduated from National Law University, Jodhpur in 2011. Having decided early on that he wanted to be a lawyer specializing in Mergers & Acquisitions and Private Equity, he interned with top-tier law firms such as Trilegal, AZB & Partners and J. Sagar Associates. He received two PPOs by the end of his third year. After graduation, he worked at J. Sagar Associates, Gurgaon for almost three years before joining Khaitan & Co., Mumbai in May, 2014. In this interview he talks about:

    • The importance of CGPA, moots, publications and debates for a legal career
    • Pursuing a career in corporate law
    • Working at top law firms like J. Sagar Associates and Khaitan & Co.

     

    Tell us a bit about your childhood. How did you decide to study law? Did you have lawyers in your family?

    I’ll answer the last question first. I’m a first generation lawyer. I do not have lawyers in the family. To be honest, law for me was just a choice I made out of high school – as with most kids out of school, we are all supposed to miraculously arrive at our future career paths, and mine happened to be law. I’m quite satisfied with my decision, though. When I connect the dots backwards, I don’t have many misgivings on my choice of career.

    I grew up in a modest background, and with both my parents being civil servants, it was always clear that I really had to make my own mark, and set my own goals. Law was one of those goals. I did not have a fall back option, and I am glad for it.

     

    Do you think having family members or mentors with a legal background help in this profession?

    Yes, most certainly. Having a legacy in any field is irreplaceable. I have read so many times how people quite casually disregard the benefit of a legacy. However, I wouldn’t like to mince words answering this question. In whatever field of law you are in, whether it is corporate or litigation, at the end of the day, contacts help. Equally competent individuals would most likely execute tasks with more or less equal efficiency. Business development and building a clientele is ultimately what sets you apart. And, it is here where having a legacy can be a major facilitator. Having said so, one must not feel disheartened with the lack of a legacy, and instead think of such a void as an opportunity to develop your own legacy. There are innumerable precedents of first generation lawyers who have done well for themselves, and who continue to do so.

     

    Tell us about your law school experience. Share some highlights from your college days that shaped you as a lawyer.

    I ranked in the bottom 15% of my batch in my first semester – maybe because I was experimenting with the ‘law school experience’, or maybe simply on account of youthful incredulity – it doesn’t matter. This had caused a major setback to me back then as I usually fared well in high school; however, in the same breath, I would also say that this was the most beneficial experience for me. I tasted what it felt like to not finish at the top, and what followed was a lot of toil and sweat and more toil and sweat to make amends. The race to the finish line, having started late, is what shaped me up.

    By third year, I had participated in some prestigious moot court competitions, broken ceilings that I thought existed (not literally!), published a fair number of articles (including in business dailies), gotten into public speaking, and of course, continued playing football.

    Not many know this (as I never made a big deal of it, and still would not like to), but I bagged two pre-placement offers before I completed my third year at law school from two of the leading national law firms (and a call back internship with the third, which too was very likely to have culminated into an offer). None of the holders of high CGPAs had an offer by third year.

    The only reason I am sharing this on this forum is to perhaps be a motivation for those who may feel they have been side-lined on account of not having grades. My word of advice to you is: Be a rebel, but not one without a cause. Instead, have a cause to back it.

    Therefore for me, the battles I fought in University, the reality checks I faced early on in my time there shaped me up tremendously. In fact, I feel living in a residential set up away from home (in environments which can get quite demanding as well as harshly competitive) greatly equipped me for life ahead.

     

    How did you fare in your academics at NLU, Jodhpur? Would you say a great CGPA is a necessity to kickstart a good career in the legal profession?

    Following from my response above, I eventually fared well in academics. However, due to the damage done to my GPA during first year, I didn’t finish in the top 10 percentile. At the same time, I finished high enough to be shortlisted for all campus recruitment opportunities. In the end, my CGPA never mattered.

    Would I say a ‘great’ CGPA is a necessity? – a big NO! A ‘good’ CGPA and a ‘balanced CV’ will help just as much, if not more. At least, this should hold true in case an individual is looking at being a transactional lawyer or a litigator.

    I feel the only place a ‘great’ CGPA helps is to secure a job at a UK magic circle firm or if you are keen on academics or, lastly, in securing scholarships/ funding for an LL.M programme. If you are interested in any of these, you should definitely have an eye out for your grades.

    At work, and in daily life, what matters is grit, confidence, hard work, more hard work, real time application of legal principles and the ability to be a problem solver. At many instances you will be faced with situations where you will need to back yourself consciously. Grades are forgotten once you start work just as high school grades are forgotten once you enter college.

     

    Conferences, debates and Moot Court Competitions – do you think participating in these extracurricular activities helps a student in the long run?

    Yes. I feel any form of self-expression is greatly rewarding. Having participated in a variety of conferences, moots and debates, I can dare say the experiences gained greatly helped me develop my legal skills ‘qualitatively’.

    Mooting taught me research and patience; parliamentary debating taught me how not to rely on rote learning, and instead learn the art of expanding on bullets; conferences helped me express myself in forums where I spoke in front of people much more experienced than me in the fields I chose to research.

     

    You have published a lot of papers in various prestigious journals. How should one go about writing papers and getting the same published? Can you give us a few tips to ace the art of paper writing?

    Writing for me started on account of being able to have a stronger CV, but as I went along, it just became a mode of self-expression for me, and I write just for the pleasure of such self-expression.

    I feel each one us have our own ways of self-expression, and I unfortunately do not profess to have ‘aced’ the art of paper writing, and I will, therefore, not be able to provide a one-size-fits-all tool-kit. However, what I could set out, are broad parameters that young authors should keep in mind when writing. Again, these too would vary on what forum one is addressing and your ultimate readers.

    Focus points are:

    • Have your aim straight. Know the point you want to make (similar to a moral to the story)
    • Clear expression
    • Lead your reader to your aim (i.e., to the moral of the story)
    • Do not overstress upon or overdo anything
    • Sophistication over sophistry; preciseness over verbosity

     

    Tell us how paper publishing and other co-curricular activities helped you in acquiring skills that are important for a successful legal career.

    I feel legal writing does play a positive influence in one’s legal career. Similarly, participation in other academic as well as non-academic co-curricular activities also has the effect of shaping your profile.

    At the end of the day, when you get out of law school, people will not recall what grades you have; what they will recall is your impact value. Solid mooting experience helps develop this facet. Similarly, legal writing greatly enables and facilitates drafting work.

     

    vatsal-gaur-2

    What kind of internships did you do while you were a student? Any remarkable experiences during your internships that shaped your career choices later?

    I focused very early on, on pursuing corporate/ M&A internships. I was lucky to have secured some good internships to start with. I remember that I did not take a single vacation during law school and worked back to back to complete three internships each year. I feel my best internships were at AZB & Partners, J. Sagar Associates and Trilegal. I received a good amount of mentoring and challenging assignments. I was also given a great deal of responsibility, just what I needed as I was working my way up to a good CGPA after the initial hit.

    I feel all my internships had very many remarkable experiences, right from getting a ‘outstanding’ rating from Mr. Gopal Subramaniam during my internship at his office in my 2nd year of University to being able to work on PE/ VC term sheets and research on very contemporary corporate law issues during my internships at Trilegal and JSA.

    I feel I was lucky to have met some really good mentors who saw talent in me, and nurtured it. ‘That’ nurturing did for me, what law school could not – feed my thirst for knowledge and the practice of transactional law.

     

    After graduating from NLU, Jodhpur you had worked at J. Sagar Associates for almost 3 years and then joined Khaitan & Co in May of last year. Please tell us a little about your work profile at these firms and the responsibilities you have been entrusted with.

    Having set myself the goal of being a transactional lawyer, I joined the M&A/ PE team at JSA, Gurgaon. Given that I had started working in this area of corporate law pretty early on in my internships (as early as 2nd year of law school), I had a good hold on the core essentials. Also, given that I had received a PPO from JSA pretty early in law school, the gestation period for me was practically non-existent as I had done rigorous internships with the firm before joining it, where I worked more like an associate than an intern. This allowed me to get right into the thick of things very early on in my legal career. My first legal due diligence for a PE deal came to me in my 2nd week, and transaction documentation started by the end of the first month. I will always be grateful to the firm and my seniors for believing in me so early on and giving me the necessary impetus required in order to develop a quick and steep learning curve – one that I have greatly benefitted from.

    I made a shift to Khaitan & Co’s Mumbai office in May of 2014 and I have greatly enjoyed being part of this set-up. The firm is highly institutionalised and is run on a merit-based system where lineage and family is surmounted by meritocracy and integrity. Joining as a lateral, I have felt very welcomed by the establishment and my colleagues.

    My responsibilities at Khaitan & Co primarily involve advising private equity/ venture capital investors and private M&A players on their investments/ acquisitions, general regulatory advice around structuring of transactions, conducting and leading diligences, negotiating, vetting and preparing transaction documents, and finally, assisting in closing of transactions. We also advise some promoters and target companies during sell-side mandates where we need to change hats during negotiations. My responsibilities at JSA were broadly similar to those described above.

     

    Your main practice area covers Mergers & Acquisitions and Private Equity investments. What prompted you to choose these practice areas? Please share with our readers.

    I was always a bit of an outlier in University, insofar as I started on corporate/ M&A internship roles very early on while most of my batch mates were still being experimental (trying different kinds of internships). Therefore, by the end of 2nd year, I had pretty much decided that I wanted to be a transactional lawyer driving M&A and PE deals. Each of my internships from 2nd year until 5th year were ‘only’ with M&A teams of the various firms I interned with, and I made that choice at the time of applying to these firms. On account of this exposure (quite self-induced, in my case), M&A/ PE was the only natural choice for me.

    I don’t know if the above answer will help your readers, but I suppose what I could broadly state is that you should try and direct your internships. Not everyone is born to do corporate law. There are so many options in law firms – right from competition, tax, infrastructure, banking to intellectual property. Similarly, nowadays, the trend seems to be changing finally where a lot of law graduates from top law schools are opting for litigation over law firms.

    I will highly recommend law students to not follow the herd, and in fact, chose the branch of law that is of most interest. M&A/ PE interested me the most – it really was, and still is, that simple.

     

    vatsal-gaur-1

    Corporate Law sometimes comes with a humongous workload. What made you gravitate towards this field? How do you manage the workload and your personal life?

    To be honest, I did not have much of a work-life balance in my first two years. I missed all important events – birthdays, anniversaries, the works, and all along I never seemed to mind. I really was a work horse (and do not regret it).

    But over time, I suppose one naturally realises how to prioritise things, and it is something that frankly everyone in the field is constantly trying to learn every day.

    To be honest here, in my view work-life balance is a major misnomer. And the reason I say this is simple. If you really think about it, 80% of our awake time is spent at work, so it is essential you enjoy your work. If you enjoy 80% of your awake time, you automatically enjoy 80% of your ‘life’ time. The balance 20% is what you really need to really think about, in my view, and make the most of!

    With so much information available online nowadays about how demanding different career lifestyles are, I am sure people are well familiarised with a lawyer’s work-life. And to this extent, all I would say is you just need to brace yourself for the long haul if corporate law is your chosen career path.

    I am not a very good example of someone who manages work and personal life too well, so unfortunately I will not be able to answer your last question. However, I would say that I do try and balance work with pleasure every now and then (just as most others also try and do), as it is vital to take a break and refresh yourself whenever you can.

     

    Many law students strongly believes that getting a job at one of the top 3 law firms is mostly about securing a high CGPA. Would you agree?

    After reading my responses above, I hope I can, to whatever extent possible, change this impression! Law firms recruit based on merit, and while a high CGPA is an easy way to assess merit, in practice, law firms do not see that in isolation. I feel having a good internship experience coupled with a well-rounded profile (which includes extra-curricular initiatives as described above) matters far more than just purely a high CGPA driven CV.

    Once you are in the grind (i.e., the workspace), it does not matter what your grades were. What matters is how well you perform, how well you execute deliverables, and how well you can display your skill set. To this end, a person with a well-rounded profile has far greater chances at excelling than someone who only has high grades to show on a CV – purely because the former kind has tested him or herself against far greater experiences and challenges, and is thus more ‘anti-fragile’ (to borrow from Nassim Nicholas Taleb).

    Notwithstanding any of what I have said, what matters most is how technically sound a to-be lawyer is – that is the single most important aspect that recruiters consider, and is irreplaceable as a skill set.

     

  • Adhirath Singh Palawat, Associate, Allen & Overy, on all about the magic circle firms

    Adhirath Singh Palawat, Associate, Allen & Overy, on all about the magic circle firms

    Adhirath Singh Palawat specializes in Mergers and Acquisitions at Allen & Overy. He graduated from National Law University Jodhpur with Honours in Business Law as well as the Mathur Amar Laxmi and Gopal Mal Mehta Memorial Gold Medals for his academic performance. He was also felicitated by the Ministry of Human Resources Development, Government of India for Excellence in Academics.

    He successfully applied to the Vacation Placement programme at both Allen & Overy and Herbert Smith Freehills. While working as a Legal Advisor at Allen & Overy, London, he underwent a six month secondment to Dubai, where he still works. In this interview he talks about:

    • Balancing academics and extra-curricular activities in law school
    • Building a career in corporate law
    • Vacation Placement, Training Contract and Secondment at Allen & Overy

     

    How would you introduce yourself? Could you please share a little bit of what motivated you to pursue law as a career?

    I never know how to answer this one! I’ll play it safe – I am originally from Jaipur; I did my LL.B from NLU, Jodhpur with Honours in Business Law; I presently work with Allen & Overy LLP.

    I was always fascinated by law as a subject because both my parents hold law degrees (though neither of them pursued a career in law), but I decided quite late to explore this academic interest as a career option. If I had to pin it down to something, I would say my interest in law arose because I have always perceived it to be an instrument of social change. Unlike the natural sciences, law is a subject by the people for the people and this aspect of ‘social contract’ always fascinated me. The other reason is that law is a subject that emphasises a lot on soft skills. To be a good lawyer, you need to possess much more than pure technical skills; this is something that resonated a lot with my views on education and what I wanted for myself professionally.

     

    Tell us a little about your law school days at National Law University, Jodhpur? How would you compare NLUJ with other law schools?

    I don’t think I am in a position to objectively compare NLUJ with any other university, but in absolute terms, I look back on my five years at university as the best years of my life (so far). Like any other opportunity in life, university experience is only as good or bad as you make it to be. Are there universities with a better brand name than NLUJ out there? Of course. Does that really make a difference in your quality of education/life and options in the long run? I don’t think so.

    Learning from your peers is an underrated concept in our education system. I personally was thankful for the opportunity to meet so many brilliant people, each impressive in his or her own unique way, be it in academics, mooting, debating or creative pursuits. I think I learnt much more outside the classroom than inside. There are always things one could do differently but, all in all, I had a fulfilling experience.

     

    Upon graduation you received the Mathur Amar Laxmi Gold Medal and the Gopal Mal Mehta Memorial Gold Medal for your CGPA. Please tell us about the manner in which you approached academics while in college.

    I believe one’s academic experience is largely dependent on personal targets and what one wants out of the university experience. Although I was always keen to learn more and gain as much knowledge as possible, I was never in constant pursuit of knowledge; in my view that is insatiable. Time is a precious commodity and everything comes at a cost. I made a very conscious decision to prioritise and divide my time among the various activities I was involved in. I approached knowledge as a means to an end and not an end in itself.

    The truth is that any profession, law included, is result oriented. There are different ways of achieving it as long as you are focussed on the result. I was quite particular about ensuring that my concepts were as clear as possible – to me that matters the most. Academics were very important and I ensured that I was always well-prepared before the exams. But beyond that, I was never one to reserve time every day for studying; I felt there were lots of other things that required my attention and time on a daily basis.

    In my opinion, the trick is in finding a balance, between academics and extra-curriculars, between dedication and efficiency. It is a very personal decision. For me, it was much more important to grow holistically and become a better-rounded person than focus solely on academics and I have never regretted that.

     

    adhirath-palawat-2

    You were recognised by the Ministry of Human Resources Development, Government of India for Excellence in Academics. Please tell us about this felicitation.

    I received a letter from the Government of India informing me that I had been selected for the recognition and that I was invited to attend the Republic Day parade in New Delhi from the Prime Minister’s box as a guest of the Prime Minister. They had selected students from across the country. I understand this was based on my academic performance at school and during the first year of university. I was really grateful for the recognition.

     

    You were also a member of the Editorial Committee. How significant do you think that the experience was?

    I had been an editor of my school’s magazine and wanted to continue such involvement during university. I was a member of the Editorial Committee during the first year. The experience was quite enriching for various reasons, not least of which was the opportunity to learn how to work with different people. First year is a time when everyone is still in the process of discovering themselves, their interests, their ambitions and what activities they would like to pursue in the future. I eventually realized that I was more passionate about and could make a greater difference as a member of the Academic Support and Literary Committee, which I was involved with for the four years that followed.

     

    You’ve held multiple positions of responsibility throughout your college life. We would like to know your opinion on how significant they were. Please tell us about your experience and how you managed time effectively?

    For me, the significance of these responsibilities cannot be overstated. To a large extent, my extra-curricular pursuits defined my university experience. I genuinely enjoyed getting involved with as many things as possible. Leadership opportunities are an excellent way for one to not just improve the lives of others around them but also, more importantly, oneself as a community member.

    I had exposure to a variety of leadership roles, most notable ones being the Student Chief Counsel (President of the student body), Convenor of the Academic Support and Literary Committee and the Co-President of the University’s first literary-cultural festival. These experiences taught me invaluable lessons in handling various situations and people, something I would have never otherwise learnt to quite the same extent.

    Time management is always an issue but then again university life is all about time management. I believe if you are passionate about something, you make the time for it. It is important to be realistic though; you can only do so much. These activities taught me the skill of time management, something that (as we all know) comes in handy when one starts working.

     

    How important do you think extra-curricular activities are to a law student? Please tell us about the way you approached extra-curricular activities in college.

    It is very important for one to pursue his/her interests throughout university life and, as much as possible, afterwards. It is our extra-curricular endeavours which add personality to our mundane profiles. Even on a practical level, who would you rather work with – Candidate A, who has a GPA of 9.5/10, has written several papers on constitutional law and did an internship with the largest firm in India; or Candidate B, who has a GPA of 8.5/10 but was a member of the environmental club, played the guitar, participated in moot courts and represented his university at a theatre festival? I appreciate that there may be people who pick Candidate A, but I personally would rather work with Candidate B.

    I always advise against the exercise of ‘CV Building’ and advocate ‘Personality Building’. It is much more important to do what you want than what you think others would like to see in your CV. Don’t aim to be the person whom all seniors at big law firms would want to hire, be the person with whom all juniors at a firm (big or small) would want to work.

    I did what interested me but never for my CV. Not focussing on the things that were not right for me gave me the time to focus on the right ones. There were times when balancing was tough but because I was truly passionate about what I was doing, it was easy to pull through.

     

    How relevant do you think internships are for law students? Did you have any such experience during your internships which inspired you to pursue a career in corporate law?

    Internships are quite important to get a sense of what work is like and discover one’s interests. Internships also serve the function of putting you on the firm’s radar. Sensibly planned internships can no doubt help in recruitment. I would, however, advise against relying solely or too much on an internship to determine a firm’s environment or the kind of work you would be doing.

    I started interning with law firms mostly after I had decided to pursue Business Law as my Honours. I wanted to see the kind of work and options available. My internship experiences validated my choice (of Business Law) to some extent and gave me an opportunity to understand what I was getting myself into.

    There is an increasing practice nowadays of doing premature internships or too many internships. I can’t say whether it is right or wrong, but I feel that students need to take a step back and evaluate what they want. Interning with a corporate law firm in your first or second year may not be as beneficial as you want it to be and you lose out on an opportunity to explore different career options.

     

    adhirath-palawat-3

    You’ve interned in quite a few top-tier law firms. How did you plan your internships?

    My intention was to experience as many different setups as possible to help me decide what I ultimately wanted to do. I adopted a tiered approach. I started with firms where the teams were smaller and the work was more generic. With time, I started applying for the larger firms where I was exposed to niche areas and ‘top-tier’ work environments. This gradual increase in the scale of firms helped me get a clearer picture across the spectrum by the time I graduated.

     

    We would love to hear about your work profile. Please tell us about the responsibilities you are entrusted with. What made you choose this particular avenue?

    During my Training Contract with Allen & Overy, I did six-month seats in international capital markets, banking and finance, and corporate. I found corporate work to be the most interesting and diverse and decided to qualify (a term used in UK firms for when you join a department permanently after your TC) to the corporate team in Dubai.

    I specialise in Mergers and Acquisitions. I do a lot of private M&A, some public M&A (equity capital markets), venture capital and private equity work; these are all related. The good thing about corporate is that no two deals are identical and the work can be quite varied, that keeps the monotony at bay! On a typical deal, I find myself negotiating and drafting transaction documents (like share purchase agreements and shareholders’ agreements) and handling transaction logistics. A not-so-fun task, though a very important one, for a junior is conducting (the much dreaded) due diligence.

     

    How did you develop your interest and knowledge base in corporate law?

    I have answered about my interest above. As for knowledge, even though India and UK have largely similar legal systems, there were a few English-law specific points of corporate law that I picked-up as I went along. For any transactional lawyer, the main learning starts only once you start working. It is not possible for anyone to read through and retain the entire Companies Law. But it’s surprising how much you pick-up in small batches by working on deals and transaction documents.

     

    What is an average working day like for you? Please tell us about the same.

    As everyone knows, in a law firm, the actual working hours are quite different from the official hours. What I do depends on the deal flow at the time. I wouldn’t want to bore people with details of corporate work but in short, there are good days and not so good days (let’s avoid the negativity of ‘bad’). I would say a good day is when you do more drafting and less administrative tasks (and no DD!). An OK day is a mixture of drafting and administrative tasks like managing signing or completion processes. A not so good day is when you are ploughing through reams of DD documents or are being pulled in several directions at the same time. The last set is not a daily affair but one needs to be prepared for it.

     

    What were the biggest hurdles and challenges in the early days of your career? How did you deal with them?

    The biggest hurdle I faced was the sudden realisation that working in a law firm required me to know and do things which a law degree may not have necessarily prepared me for. The academic study of law can be quite far removed from its practice, especially if you are working as a transactional lawyer. Your job requires you to have as much commercial aptitude, if not more, as legal knowledge. It took me a while to become reasonably confident about my work and grasp how a deal runs; it is a constant learning process.

    On a less obvious note, I started my career in London so another hurdle was minor cultural practices which percolate into our professional mannerisms. In my experience, we tend to swing in extremes; we are either quite formal (and deferential) or can come across as being slightly overconfident. I noticed I used to err on the side of the former. Finding the right balance is important.

     

    Tell us a little about your experience as a Vacation Placement Student at Allen & Overy and Herbert Smith Freehills. How did you secure this opportunity?

    International firms have very formal and transparent application procedures. You do not need to grapple around for internship opportunities. I applied to both HSF and A&O through their online annual vacation scheme applications and was fortunate enough to make it. There was an initial screening followed by interviews and case studies for both these firms. For people interested in foreign firms, I would strongly recommend keeping a timetable of when the applications are due – ideally in your third year so that you can apply in your fourth.

    Both the experiences were fantastic. I was instantly sold on the work environment and culture at both the firms. The experiences were similar in many ways but different in others. The similarity was evident in terms of warm personalities, professional environments and a clear respect for work-life balance. The differences were more subtle due to the difference in the scale of the two firms (magic-circle versus silver-circle). I was also quite impressed to see the emphasis placed on soft skills and giving the right training. I decided that I wanted such training for the formative stages of my career.

     

    While working as Legal Advisor at Allen & Overy, you underwent a six month secondment to Dubai. A lot of our readers would like to know how the process of secondment works. Please share a few words about your experience.

    A ‘secondment’ is like a temporary six-month stint you do in another office or with a client. It is common practice at UK firms to apply for a secondment in your last seat. I was extremely keen to try out Dubai as a market.

    The experience was wonderful (as you can probably deduce from the fact that I am still here). The office is much smaller so everyone knew everyone, the corporate team was much more closely-knit, there was more scope for direct responsibility at a junior level and, above all, it was not raining/freezing/gloomy 365 days a year. What also helped was the fact that A&O has one of the best M&A practices in the region so the work was diverse and (more often than not) interesting.

     

    What do you think are the essential soft skills that a law student aspiring to make a career in corporate law should possess?

    Corporate law or otherwise, what comes in handy the most is a confident demeanour. How you present yourself has a significant impact on how people perceive you and your work. This extends to the way you talk (presenting your thoughts in an articulate and coherent manner), the way you deal with people and the way you handle stressful situations. In my experience, people would rather give work to someone who, even if not outstanding, is confident and can stay calm when faced with the unforeseen than someone who is brilliant but may drop the ball or lose his/her composure. If I may add, people often mistake confidence for the ability to convince everyone even when you are unsure of yourself. That’s great but it will only take you so far. What is more important is having the confidence to own up to your limitations; this inspires others’ trust in you and ensures success in the longer run.

    In terms of career-specific soft skills, transactional lawyers should always strive to develop matter-management skills. Deals can get stressful and at such times, people who manage to stay organised do better. So if anyone makes fun of you for being too organised (like colour-coding your notes, etc.), don’t worry, you will do well in corporate law!

     

    What does the process of recruitment and interviewing include? Does it differ, depending on the position that the candidate has applied for, or the country which the office is situated in?

    I was selected through the vacation placement route. After an initial screening of applicants, they called a few of us for interview. The interview (in my time) was split into two components, an HR interview and a case study. During the vacation scheme, I went through a similar process in London where I was assessed on my time there and was also asked to undertake a case study/research task and had a final partner interview.

    While I am not in a position to comment on the official policy, I think the process may differ slightly depending on which office you are applying to and the position applied for. The above definitely won’t apply for lateral hires. While all offices have a fairly formal process, the head office (London) has a slightly different format because of the requirement of a Training Contract in the UK.

     

    Once hired, is there an induction or training period for the associates? If yes, what does it consist of?

    If hired in London after graduation, you have to complete a Training Contract for two years. The two year tenure is divided into four six-month seats wherein you get a chance to experience different departments and decide where you want to ‘qualify’. Towards the end of the Training Contract, depending on your interest area and that department’s inclination, you may be offered a position as an associate. Once you become an associate, there is no training or induction involved.

    Overseas qualified lawyers (such as from India) have to clear an exam called the Qualified Lawyers Transfer Scheme in order to be registered as a Solicitor in England and Wales.

     

    What does an average day in the life of an Associate at Allen & Overy look like? What does the work consist of? Does the firm encourage lawyers to maintain a work-life balance?

    I have already described a typical day for a corporate associate above. In terms of work-life balance, that is a tough question. Being very honest, you will find mixed opinions on this topic. In my experience, the firm is definitely quite open to and encourages employees to maintain a work-life balance, but it also depends on your team and department. There are of course busy times when everyone has to put in the hours (especially in a magic-circle firm). I will, however, say that most departments don’t have the culture of face time.

     

    As a concluding message, what would be your suggestions to law students?

    Make the most of university days; that is a precious period you will not get back. At the cost of repeating myself, I would advise against doing anything for the sake of building your CV. If you truly want to differentiate yourself from others, do what inspires and interests you, be it writing papers or dancing. Try to become a better version of yourself, and in the process I am sure you will end up becoming a better lawyer. It is easy to let your vision get jaded while at university; in the long run, things that you thought really matter actually may not.

    Lastly, don’t shy away from letting your hair down. You have a lifetime of hard work ahead of you anyway. And “always remember where you come from and where you want to go”..

  • Shabnam Khan, Head – Trademark, Lall Lahiri and Salhotra, on a career in Intellectual Property Rights

    Shabnam Khan, Head – Trademark, Lall Lahiri and Salhotra, on a career in Intellectual Property Rights

    Shabnam Khan graduated in English Hons. before deciding to pursue law at Delhi University. She graduated in law from Delhi University in 2003. Her journey as an IPR professional started when she joined Evalueserve.com Pvt. Ltd. as an Associate. Thereafter, she joined Lall Lahiri and Salhotra as a Senior Associate in 2007. She was subsequently promoted to Head – Trademark Applications in 2013. In this interview she talks about:

    • Specializing in IPR Laws
    • Working at one of the foremost IPR Firms
    • Being Head – Trademark Applications at Lall Lahiri and Salhotra

     

    What brought you into studying law? Was it planned?

    I had always been captivated by the legal fraternity and the zeal with which they pursue the path of providing justice for their clients. Honestly, the biggest push came after I saw few movies such as “A Few Good Men”, “The Accused” and “A Civil Action” which brought me to realize that this profession had the power to change people’s lives. With that thought during my last year of English Hons. I decided that if there was a career which I wanted to pursue it had to be in the legal domain and thereafter once I started with my course work there was no looking back. The entire subject was and is still captivating.

     

    Please tell us a little about your law school days at the Delhi University? How were you at academics?

    The entire course was so gripping that it was difficult to miss a single day at college. The biggest positive of the Delhi Law University is the excellent professors and their teaching methodology. The sessions were interactive, lively and always buzzing with arguments and counter arguments on various topics. I was also elected as the student counsellor during my time at the college. I would rate myself as a hard working student who participated in various college activities while securing very good grades in a few semesters.

     


    You have specialized in IP law. What made you interested in the same? How do you say one can gain expertise in IP Law? What does it take to be a good IP lawyer?

    The journey to being a IP professional started when I joined Evalueserve.com Pvt. Ltd. where I was required to work with legal attorneys who handled various activities related to IP matters. I received tremendous guidance from attorneys from across the globe, especially those who were involved with USPTO (US Trademark and Patents Office). I was thereafter trained in patent writing and filing matters. This is when I developed an irrevocable interest in the subject. The expertise in the subject comes with the right guidance, practise and continuous dealing with matters related to the subject. To be a good IP lawyer requires one to have broad understanding of various industries, business nuances so that you can suggest creative and out of the box solutions to the clients for their legal matters.

     

    You started your career at Evalueserve.com Pvt. Ltd. as an Associate. How did you secure your appointment? How would you describe your experience working there? What kind of challenges did you face during this job?

    I started as an Associate handling the legal part of the patent filings for the IP department of Evalueserve. That was my first step in the world of IP. I got a lot of guidance from my seniors, went through patent drafting training and learnt quite a lot about what patents are all about and how any invention is required to be protected and secured in the best possible manner. Challenges were numerous, IP was new, and the domain was technical which required me to have conversations in different time zones with IP Attorneys in the US and across the globe. The job entailed that I was always abreast with the latest happenings and was always a step ahead of the deadlines as there was no room for errors. I developed various skills to manage things and made sure nothing falls through the cracks.

     


    Thereafter, you joined Lall Lahiri and Salhotra as a Senior Associate in 2007 and became Head – Trademark Applications in 2013. For a law student it’s very difficult to think about becoming a Head in just six years of joining work. What would you say helped you succeed?

    Joining Lall Lahiri and Salhotra came after a stint of over three years of dealing with Patents. Since I did not have a technical background, I found myself being limited to looking at the legal part of Patents which at that point in time did not have considerable opportunities. As I was interested in Intellectual Property, I wanted to look into other aspects of IP as well. The trademarks division of LLS gave me the much needed exposure and opportunities to grow. The seniors and partners were very educative and supportive towards me since trademarks was an uncharted territory. I learnt, made a few mistakes, but always pushed constantly by learning and guidance provided by my seniors. The process of learning and growing never ceases at LLS, therefore it was after years of working there that I was bestowed upon with the responsibility of heading the department. The openness to accept challenges, hard work and eagerness to learn helped me join the ranks of being the Head of the department.

     

    What kind of effort should a young associate put in to work to be appreciated? What distinguishes an associate from a partner when it comes to work?

    A young associate should be all about learning and gaining knowledge of their domains. Reading and keeping yourself abreast of any developments happening in the field are a must. Hence, it is a must for the associate to focus on his professional path of enrichment as these initial years will differentiate him from others in the future. An associate, in the initial years of their induction should always have an attitude of being a go-getter, ready to accept challenges and should be able to think out of the box. Every matter will enrich the associate with greater depth of knowledge and equip him in handling various matters in the future.

     

    shabnam-khan-2

    What does a Head at a Law Firm like Lall Lahiri and Salhotra do? What falls within the scope of your responsibility? Tell us about a typical work day.

    The work of a Head of department entails a large number of activities and cannot be categorized into specific key responsibility areas. However, some of the key tasks include – speaking with clients on active and fresh mandates, understanding their legal problems and suggesting actionable solutions, managing deadlines, resource & project planning amongst various other tasks.

    A typical day starts with reading the emails received from the clients, prioritizing what needs to be done, what needs to go out to the clients on that day and what needs to be started to be able to meet the future deadlines. Advising clients, providing them with your opinions both from a legal and a commercial perspective, recommending the best ways forward and assisting them in achieving the same are the highlights of a typical day.

     

    How is the work culture at Lall Lahiri and Salhotra? If an associate commits a mistake or an error what course of action do you follow?

    Work culture at LLS is very cohesive. It has great learning environment for everyone, be it an associate or a senior person. There are no limits to work and you can grow as much as you want, of course with the right abilities and attitude. The firm promotes in people thinking out of the box, finding solutions and hence in the process, mistakes are expected from juniors. However, it is also expected that with the right guidance from the seniors he/she is able to amend and learn from the same.

     

    What are the other areas of study which you think that a law student wanting to excel as a professional in the field of IP should be proficient in?

    In case you want to excel in IP, certain other related fields of law also come into the picture. Associated areas of law include corporate law, criminal law and law related to other aspects of IP such as copyrights and Patents. An expertise is not desired, but working knowledge of these fields will assist and help you rise above the rest.

     

    What changes has being the Head – Trademark Applications brought into your life, do you ever feel that there is an excess of work load on you? How do you manage to strike a balance between your personal and professional life?

    Work never stops, the interesting bits of queries received from the clients keeps you going and exploring more. Work can and never should be treated as a burden but as a challenge, the more you have, greater the chances that you will become a better and refined professional. As no two assignments are the same, it helps a person in exploring uncharted territories and subject matters resulting in understanding the applicability of law in greater detail.

     

    The trend now is to gather various internship experiences at different places. Was the scenario the same while you were pursuing law? How are internships helpful for a law student?

    While I was pursuing law, the concept of gathering internships was in the nascent stage. At the most, students would get attached to someone they know or their family knew or start as assisting lawyers in various courts. While ensuring you intern with good and varied law firms is a necessity of the current time, however, an intern should be thoughtful of not overdoing the same. It is advisable to spend time in a few law firms than a large number of law firms as it would leave the intern confused and not being able to understand any subject in detail. The same is crucial in making future career decisions.

     

    What are the qualities which Lall Lahiri and Salhotra look for in one and his/her CV?

    The firm hires interns, however, the selection process is stringent and thus only a few make it through the selection process. It is important for the intern to exhibit qualities such as – knowledge of current happenings in the IP world, understanding on key/ famous IP litigations, attitude, openness to learn and the desire to go extra mile, proficiency in spoken and written English, etc.

     

    What do you feel makes an intern stand out and is very important for him to do to have a chance of getting a call back or even a PPO?

    As I said earlier, it is about your attitude and willingness to learn. A lot depends on how fast you pick up things, and deliver results in a limited time.

     

    What would be your message to our readers who are budding lawyers and law students?

    Have the right attitude and never think any work is small, give your 100% to whatever you do. This will take you high on the ladder where all you can see is success.

  • Hrishikesh Datar, Founder CEO, Vakilsearch.com, on entrepreneurship and starting up

    Hrishikesh Datar, Founder CEO, Vakilsearch.com, on entrepreneurship and starting up

    Hrishikesh Datar is a graduate of the 2010 batch of National Law School of India University, Bangalore. He is an entrepreneur and the Founder CEO of Vakilsearch.com, the leading online legal services facilitator in India. Vakilsearch.com provides online legal services 24/7 and gets about 10,000 clients a year.

    In this interview, Hrishikesh talks about:

    • Being an entrepreneur
    • Starting Vakilsearch.com and its progress so far
    • Internships at Vakilsearch.com

     

    Almost all our readers know you and your endeavour Vakilsearch. What else would you want us to know about you as an introduction?

    I’m a graduate of the 2010 batch of the National Law School, Bangalore. I opted out of the recruitment process for law firms and spent a year playing with ideas before starting Vakilsearch in 2011.

     

    Did you have lawyers in your family? What motivated you to choose law as a career?

    Yes, absolutely. My father is a reputed lawyer in the Madras High Court and Supreme Court. My great-grand father was a lawyer in Pune and some of my grand-uncles were lawyers and judges in different courts in Maharashtra.

    I loved debating and I found grey a far more interesting colour than black or white. So the precise sciences were never really my cup of tea. I found the opportunity to be creative and try different approaches interesting about a career in the law.

     

     

    Kindly acquaint us with your college life. What activities were you involved in apart from the regular academic curriculum?

    I was a keen debater and mooter. In my fourth year, I started visiting  IIM, Bangalore where my love affair with entrepreneurship began. I started a T-Shirt business in college which convinced me that entrepreneurship was going to be my life.

     

    What kind of internships did you do while you were a student? How were you at academics?

    I interned at the law offices of P.S. Raman, then the Advocate General of Tamil Nadu. I had a memorable stint with Arun Jaitley, who was then a full time practising advocate. I also worked with a criminal lawyer in New Delhi, a matrimonial lawyer in Chennai as well as on research and book writing assignments.

    I did reasonably well throughout. To start with, yes, there was a pressure and a drive to succeed academically. But once you get used to the ‘system’, things become easier.

     

    You are an Entrepreneur and the Founder CEO of Vakilsearch.com, the leading online legal services facilitator in India.  What motivated you to start Vakilsearch.com?

    I just feel that the opportunity in India is so immense that we need a hundred companies like us to meet the needs of a billion people.

    And I was deeply motivated by the sheer amount of pain and suffering people face because of not having reliable, affordable and friendly professional support. I saw this in abundance when I worked with different lawyers and firms across India.

    This problem is not limited to the core legal space, it includes CAs and Company Secretaries as well.

     

    With so much of competition existing in the online legal service field, what makes Vakilsearch different from its peers?

    I would say relentless focus on customer satisfaction, a wide range of offerings and a technology focus.

     

    Did you visit entrepreneur meetings during the formative years of Vakilsearch? How would you compare the Indian start-up scenario with the rest of the world?

    The Indian scenario is in its early years, even now. And we have a long way to go. Yes, I did visit a lot of meetings at the IIM Bangalore and they were very inspirational.

     

    You are a businessman and also a lawyer now. Do you feel that doing a business related course like MBA would have been better after studying law?

    No, I don’t think an MBA would have helped. Business is about life and people, and managing both. You can’t learn this in a college. You have to learn it by doing. But yes, spending time with people who have succeeded in the business world, and learning from them is important. You can leapfrog some steps and avoid many mistakes.

     

    Please tell us more about Vakilsearch.com

    Vakilsearch.com, India’s fastest growing professional services platform on the Internet with offices in Chennai, Hyderabad and Bangalore.
    Our goal is to disrupt the delivery of legal, accounting and compliance services for every individual and every enterprise in India by harnessing cutting edge technological tools – and in the process, introduce transparency, efficiency and reliability. You’ll agree with me that these are huge pain points in India today.

    We get about 10,000 clients a year right now, and they are primarily small businesses and individuals looking for reliable professional support.

    We help them with a wide range of things, ranging from incorporating their companies to getting their trademarks, copyrights and patents, preparing legal documentation and contracts, offering them advice and support and also tax related work. We are very comprehensive.

     

    You are also in charge of building Vakilsearch.com’s lawyer network, brand building and marketing and alliances. How do you manage all these by yourself?

    We have a dedicated team for that now, so I have plenty of help. I just act as a catalyst, ensuring that problems are smoothened out and that difficulties are handled. That sums up my role today.

     

    How are you financing the business? How do you plan to finance future expansion?

    We raised finance through internal sources before raising a round of Series A funding with Kalaari Capital this year.

     

    Who all are associated with Vakilsearch?

    We’ve been funded by Kalaari Capital in a Series A round. We have a great team of mentors and advisors, including Shri Madhava Menon who consented to be an external mentor.

     

    Are you planning to hire? What do you look for in a prospective applicant?

    We’re looking for the most aggressive, tenacious and determined minds to join our team. If you think you have it in you, write to us and we’ll take it forward.

     

    Where do you see yourself five years down the line?

    We will be a billion dollar business serving more than a million clients each year.

     

    Lastly, what would be your message to law students and young lawyers who want to be entrepreneurs?

    Be willing to be ‘unsure’ about what lies ahead. Try different things and keep on looking for what moves you. And to quote Steve Jobs, “never settle”.