Super Lawyer

Category: Interviews

  • Naman Joshi, Law Graduate, NLUD, on induction into Karanjawala & Co., mooting, debating, and litigation

    Naman Joshi, Law Graduate, NLUD, on induction into Karanjawala & Co., mooting, debating, and litigation

    Naman Joshi graduated from NLU, Delhi in 2014. He is currently an associate at an illustrious litigation firm, Karanjawala & Co. He has been quite involved in Debating and Mooting as a student, and coached the NLU Delhi Team which went on to win the 12th Henry Dunant.

    His engagement in sport, community service, and extra-curricular activity has also been recognised by the H. R. H. Duke of Edinburgh, Prince Philip.

    We asked him about:

    • Being the Best Debater at Outlook SpeakOut North Rounds
    • Coaching the NLU Delhi team to success at 12th Henry Dunant
    • Receiving the Gold Standard of the International Award for Young People

    How would you like to introduce yourself to our readers?

    I am a lawyer who in my free time, likes to read, watch reruns of Friends and Two and a Half Men, and play FIFA.

    I do have lawyers in my family. My mother is one, but she did law late as an afterthought and partly out of boredom. She was working earlier as a consultant and decided she needed something new to do. Apart from that on my paternal side I have two lawyers.

     

    What brought you into legal studies?

    I did not consider engineering as a career. It never appealed to me. Medicine on the other hand did sound fascinating, especially because I read up a substantial amount about the human body when my father underwent a bypass.I was in 6th Class then and being a surgeon sounded nice. But to be very honest, I neither had the math skills nor the scientific acumen to pursue it at the highest level. It’s not just about being a doctor or an engineer. It’s about being good enough to rise to the top of your game. Law was a conscious choice from quite early on. I’d say about 9th Class onwards. When it came to second language options, I chose Hindi instead of French (lot of lower court proceedings are in Hindi). When it came to choosing subjects in 11th, chose History, Political Science, Economics, and Maths (these subjects barring maths, are taught in law school and are actually helpful when practicing law). Law also gelled with the other things I was doing in school – debating, writing, hosting a TV show on DD Bharti, community service etc.

     

    naman-joshi-3

    What would be your advice to someone who has never debated earlier?

    (Naman has been awarded the Best Debater spot the Outlook SpeakOut Debate.)

    Honestly, I can think of at least three debaters better than me in my own class from college itself. In fact, I have never even won a debating tournament since I have stepped into college.

    Partly, because the Parliamentary Debate format didn’t feel as comfortable as Oxford-Style did and partly, because I didn’t work on it because I was mooting extensively. So no advice as far as acing a debating tournament is concerned. As far as someone who has never debated earlier is concerned, my only advice would be, give it a shot. What’s the worst that could happen? It is a fun activity where you get to travel along with a couple of your college mates and the downside is missing college for three days or so and the upside is winning some serious cash!

     

    What separates a good mooter from an average mooter?

    (Naman has represented India at the 53rd and 54th Philip C. Jessup International Law Moot Court Competition. You have been also been ranked the 30th Best Oralist at the 54th Jessup.)

    A good mooter is one who masters not only the brief he or she has prepared but also everything around it and is ready to have a conversation with the judges. An average mooter prepares a brief and goes ahead and argues it. The former understands the context in which the arguments are placed. The reason they are being made at all. The latter looks at the last page, sees the questions of law and opens up a book to cite authorities.

    Mooting is not just an activity you should participate in because it is a check box in your ‘things to do in law school’ book. Do it because you like the activity. Do it because you want to read, write, and talk about a particular thing. For me that happened with international law. Even though I am not mooting anymore and my work is far divorced from international law, I like to stay in touch with the subject because I like it.

     

    What would you say contributed to the huge success of the team that you coached for the 12th Henry Dunant rounds?

    I think what contributed to the huge success of the team that I coached was the very hard work they all put in. Dhruv, Utkarsh, and Natasha were absolutely dedicated to the cause of winning and they did everything they had to, to do so. Including roping me in as coach, which can be a decision one can later regret (I am sure they all did at some point or the other) because I can be very unpleasant to work with. I expect people to function in a particular way, am extremely pedantic about minute things and easily lose it. Thankfully the team took it all in their stride and it worked out well. They went on become the first Indian team to have ever won the Red Cross Moot and I am extremely happy that I was a part of that. Plus, it has always been a wish of mine to do an international criminal law moot. I never found time for it myself, so vicarious pleasure.

    As far as the difference between them and the teams they faced in each of the finals, I’d say fine margins. At the highest level, everybody works incredibly hard. But if I had to split hairs, I’d say:

    1) the team was better prepared for the questions. They knew what was coming and they had already practiced how to knock a particular question out of the park.

    2) They had contextual understanding. I remember this issue of hate speech coming up in the India rounds and how the team answered the question not only with the international criminal law standard but also how hate speech is understood by national and international human rights courts and adjudicatory mechanisms.

     

    Tell us about being the Recipient of the Gold Standard of the International Award for Young People, 2009 awarded by H.R.H. Duke of Edinburgh, Prince Phillip.

    Essentially the programme requires you to fulfil certain mandatory hours of engagement in a sport, community service, and extra-curricular activity. There are three level – Bronze, Silver, and Gold.

    As you keep excelling in the respective activities, you keep rising through the levels. So in my case, I played tennis, was President of Interact Club in my school (the Club is affiliated to Rotary International), and was an avid photographer. It is a fulfilling experience and I’d say if your school is a part of the programme, you should definitely participate.

     

    Tell us about your summer school experience.

    The courses were extremely helpful. There were three:

    – Corporate Law at LSE,

    – International Criminal Law at Leiden University, and

    – Comparative Constitutionalism and European Competition Law at Trinity College, Cambridge.

    I can assure you that anything I know about corporate law is more likely from the three weeks at LSE with Prof. David Kershaw than two semesters of corporate law in college. International Criminal Law, of course, doesn’t get much attention in college. But it came in handy while coaching the aforementioned team. The Cambridge courses were partly academic curiosity and partly a way to test if I want to pursue a LL.M immediately after college. The answer was in the negative for now. But both of them have definitely enhanced my understanding of how I look at constitutional law and competition law.

    Application procedure is fairly simple. These universities have extremely user friendly websites. You can just log on. Complete the form. Scan and attach the relevant documents. And you are good to go.

    The question of institutional support (parent institution) didn’t arise because all these courses were in the vacation. Though the Vice-Chancellor did appreciate what I had learnt abroad and allowed me to use what I have learned abroad effectively by allowing me to coach a team officially. Until then no team had had a university appointed coach.

    I already said before how highly I rate Prof. Kershaw’s corporate law classes. And I think the same applies across to board to all the classes I took abroad. There is no doubting that those classes beat most of the classes that are being taught in any university in India. That said, I did have some seminar classes (elective courses) where the quality of teaching was at par if not better. So I guess it comes down to

    1)      teacher’s understanding of the subject;

    2)      ability to get that understanding across; and

    3)      class size.

    Class size I think is a huge factor so we can’t really blame our teachers. They are doing the best in the situation. In fact I’d say my college is doing better than most considering the recent faculty recruitment and the very serious qualifications these teachers come with National Law University, Delhi.

     

    How did you manage funding for these courses?

    My parents have been extremely kind. They will not buy me a Playstation or plan a trip to Thailand, but if it comes to down education or professional development, they have never said no, regardless of the amount of money involved. But for those looking for alternate sources of funding, these universities sometimes do have funding available. Getting in touch early on with them is a good idea.

     

    Did you ever plan to join a corporate law firm?

    No, I did not plan on joining a corporate law firm. One of the reasons is I don’t frankly like corporate law as much. Can I work in the litigation department of a corporate law firm? Sure. Can I standout in an M&A team? No. Moreover, I need the thrill of the courtroom. I need to put on the gown and stand before a judge and argue a case. So litigation was always the thing that I had in mind; that is why I never even interned with a corporate law firm. Plus my first real legal internship was with Mr. Gopal Subramanium when he was the Solicitor General of India. The experience that I left with a month later assured me that this is what I want to be doing. Future plans are fairly straightforward – practice law in the courts and hopefully be recognized for it.

     

    How did your appointment at Karanjawala & Co. take place?

    My appointment at Karanjawala & Co. was actually a last minute one. While I had interned with them earlier in the summer of 2013, I was already placed at the Chambers of Mr. Gopal Subramanium, Senior Advocate and had never applied for a job at Karanjawala. When Mr. Subramanium’s name came up for elevation to the apex court, I decided to look elsewhere because I assumed that Sir would be elevated to the Supreme Court pursuant to a recommendation of the Collegium (Of course there were certain unbecoming actions of certain persons and entities which rightly led him to withdraw his name.)

    When I started looking for a job I didn’t want my parents or for that matter even Mr. Subramanium to just make a call on my behalf. I wanted to get a job on my merits. So I asked Mr. Trideep Pais who is an advocate in the Delhi High Court and who has taught me criminal law in college to let me know if anyone is hiring so that I could send them my CV and seek an interview. I also asked other persons I knew from college like Mr. Alok Prasana, Mr. Rishabh Sancheti and Mr. Rajshekhar Rao. All of them were extremely helpful and gave me leads about persons they knew who were looking to hire.

    One lead that Trideep Sir gave me was Karanjawala & Co. I went and interviewed with Ms. Meghna Mishra who is a Partner at Karanjawala. Luckily for me she had seen my Karanjawala worksheet and had spoken to other people at the office, all of whom had said kind things about me. She told me she’d get in touch with me soon and that it looked good. I didn’t get a call for few days and I was getting anxious. A few days later I got a call saying Mr. Karanjawala wanted to meet me. I met him, he saw my CV and previous certificates of work, looked at me and asked me if I wanted to work at Karanjawala and when I said yes, he told me told me I am hired. Now I have been working at Karanjawala for a month and it is a great office with a lot of great people plus the office undertakes huge volumes of litigation. In my first month here I have been working on a couple of arbitrations, drafting pleadings, appearing in the High Court, and have even made a solo appearance before the Debt Recovery Tribunal.

     

    Do you think your experience in mooting shall help you in your litigation career?

    It already does. Mooting teaches you how to critically analyse a legal problem, building up a story using the facts you have around it, pruning out the negative facts or figuring a way of colouring them positively, researching, drafting a brief, arguing it, and answering any questions a judge might have. That’s pretty much what you do when a client comes to you with a problem and wants you to argue for him or her in court.

     

    Would you consider pursuing an LL.M from a reputed university?

    I would love to go study at Oxford or Cambridge. But let me be very honest. With a CGPA of 4.9/8, I am not very high on their list of prospective candidates. Moreover, I don’t want my parents to pay for it. So, maybe in a couple of years after I have some money of my own and my work experience can supplement my CGPA.

     

    What would be your message to law students who want to ace in moots?

    Choose a moot for the area of law and not the area of the world where it is held. A lot of students, unfortunately even in my university, want to do a particular moot because the college is paying for the trip abroad. That’s the wrong kind of attitude to begin with.

    Start reading up on that area way before the moot problem comes out.

    Put your fingers to the keyboard from Day 3.

    Start writing based on whatever you understand. You can always polish later.

    In fact you might not even use an argument you thought of early on, in your final brief, but that junked argument is very essential. Either it will tell you what not to say and take down an opponent, who has unwittingly said it, or it will provide you a way out when the argument you actually used didn’t work and you need a Hail Mary pass.

    Whatever research you have done, make notes so that you later remember you read what where. A lot of research is recyclable in a moot problem. You might not need it but that’s exactly what your teammate does.

    Lastly, think of it as real. You have to believe you are the agent/counsel for a particular state/party. If you don’t believe in the cause of a nation bombing another to establish democracy and promote peace or a nation that is sinking because of climate change, you can bet the judge won’t either.

  • Rachit Ranjan, Research Fellow, WTO, on studying at UC-Berkeley, and his passion for academia

    Rachit Ranjan, Research Fellow, WTO, on studying at UC-Berkeley, and his passion for academia

    rachit-ranjan-1Rachit Ranjan graduated from WBNUJS, Kolkata in 2010. He had finished his schooling from the USA and France to join NUJS for legal studies. After graduating from NUJS he had the opportunity to teach at CNLU, Patna for more than a year. Thereafter he left to pursue his LL.M from University of California, Berkeley. Later he also had the opportunity to teach at Jindal Global Law School, Sonepat and is currently working at the WTO, committed to pure research work.

    In this interview we requested him to share:

    • The differences between academic culture of India and other countries.
    • Teaching experience at CNLU, Patna and JGLS, Sonepat
    • His experience at UC- Berkeley while pursuing higher studies
    • Research work at IIFT and at WTO

     

    Tell us a bit about yourself.

    At the outset, let me congratulate you for this wonderful initiative. I only wish that there was this sort of guidance at our disposal during my law school days. I would also like to mention that I am not deserving of the tag of superlawyer yet but would like to thank you for allowing me to share my thoughts with your readers. I hope that my experiences will encourage some students to pursue academia as a profession. I graduated from NUJS in 2010 and did my LL.M. from UC Berkeley in International Law. My career decisions are small platforms, which may (or may not) help me in realizing my ultimate goal of becoming a reputed academic.

     

    What differences did you find between the education systems of India and US?

    Both systems have their pros and cons. I moved to France in 9th grade because of my father’s job. Coming from an Indian education system, the American curriculum and pedagogy was a refreshing experience. I believe the greatest tragedy that plagues the Indian education system is the ubiquitous culture of rote learning. Although the Indian education system had prepared me well to adapt to a completely new system, it did not allow me to adapt easily to the immense focus on logic and analytical thinking which is encouraged in the American curriculum. I believe it is a practice which will help any student in the long run regardless of their career choice. To that extent, I feel India must eschew the culture of rote learning and start treating students as co-creators of knowledge rather than blank slates.

     

    What was your motivation behind pursuing law?

    My career choices have been nothing short of a serendipitous discovery. I had never considered law as a career option. In fact, I was planning to study biotechnology in the US or Canada but due to the high tuition fee I had to reconsider my options and move back to India. My cousin, who was at NLS Bangalore, encouraged me to apply for law. She did a mighty fine job at selling national law schools and what they had to offer. At that time, my idea of a lawyer was a person in an expensive suit driving a fancy car. I must admit this is what drove me to choose law. I wasn’t really passionate about law when I began preparing for the entrance examinations. I applied in the pre-CLAT era, when all these institutions had separate exams.

    NUJS happened to be the first one in the series. I was really keen on joining NUJS because I heard great things about the place from my cousin and my uncle, who is a lawyer. Naturally I put in the most amount of hardwork for the NUJS exam and was lucky enough to crack it. Upon receiving confirmation about my selection, I made up my mind that I wanted to move to Calcutta and did not put much effort in preparing for other entrance examinations.

    It was only after I joined NUJS that I got a real taste of law. I was intimidated initially but the constant intellectual rigor was something which appealed to me. Even though many of my peers have completely moved away from law, my passion for this discipline keeps growing stronger. This passion stems from a sense of intellectual and moral satisfaction, I receive from this discipline.

    What motivates me now to uphold my decision is how well I am equipped to explore issues that confront the global community today, where lawyers have a definite and positive role to play Inter aliaissues relating to human rights, environment, global trade and intellectual property rights. Owing to the training I have received as a lawyer, I am confident about dealing with such issues, which bear a direct impact on our society.

     

    Tell us about your time at WBNUJS.

    Unfortunately my law school experience isn’t one which I would wish upon anyone. I have battled great adversity to complete my legal education, which severely affected my ability to be active in extra-curricular activities. From 2005-2010, I suffered from four extremely severe bouts of Hepatitis A, which would render me incapable of attending classes or partaking in any event. My illness prevented me to gaining a holistic law school experience.

    Out of 10 semesters in NUJS I was sick for six. Nevertheless, I did not let this affect me adversely and took part in extra curricular activities, whenever I had the time. Perhaps the proudest moment of my college experience was being part of the organizing committee for the ILSA International Conference. At that time, no law school in India had managed to host a conference of this scale. We won the bid for the conference by virtue of networks made by my batchmate Kinshuk Jhunjhunwala, when he went to present a paper at the ILSA Conference in 2007 (co-authored by me).

    Although NUJS had already gained international recognition in mooting and debating, the conference helped the institution to achieve immense adulation and respect among some of the foremost international law scholars of the world. I believe it assisted the institution immensely in establishing itself as a law school, which engages in serious scholarship. To be an important part of institutional development was exhilirating and humbling at the same time.

     

    What are your thoughts on these activities like mooting, debating and publications in journals?

    As mentioned above, the debilitating circumstances during my law school prevented me from partaking in many of these activities. In fact this is part of the reason why I chose teaching law as a profession. During my stint at CNLU and JGLS, I actively engaged in mooting activities by coaching certain teams for competitions. I coached the JGLS team, which won the NLS Arbitration Moot recently ( although all the credit goes to them). All these activities are extremely important and every law student must engage in them.

    Although real court procedure is very different from mooting, the essential reason behind this activity is to teach you legal research and argumentation. It is the ultimate training program to help you to “think like a lawyer”. Debating requires you to be updated with the latest developments across the world and further allows you to dissect these issues by engaging in reasoned discourse. This is another element, which is extremely important in order to become a good lawyer.

    As for publications, I have always maintained that if you want to understand a subject in-depth, you should write a paper on it. Much like mooting it teaches you legal research and argumentation. However, legal scholarship goes a step beyond and allows you to engage with the subject in a more nuanced manner. It will consolidate your foundations and prepare you to “think outside the box”. There is far too much focus in law schools about the “CV value” of these activities, which in my opinion is very unfortunate. I believe there needs to be a major overhaul of this mindset and both students and faculty should espouse such practices not because of their respective “CV value” but as a personal(ity) development initiative.

     

    Please tell us any remarkable internship experience of yours which shaped your legal career?

    My internship experiences are more or less comparable to any other law student’s experiences. I wanted to experience each and every avenue, where lawyers had a role to play before making a final career decision. What distinguishes my experience from majority of the law students is a focus on international organizations.

    I have always been fascinated by international affairs and am quite the international relations nerd. To this extent, I always wanted to explore how international organizations functioned, the dynamics at play re the political and structural constraints of these institutions and of course, the role of law. I interned with INTERPOL and UNODC, to understand issues relating to international money laundering, drug trafficking and financing of terrorism. I engaged on a special project with UNICEF as a lead researcher to study the implementation gap in Bihar re child rights legislation and India’s international commitment regarding the same. All these experiences allowed me to gain a better understanding of the expansive contours of international law and international affairs, a discipline which I intend to pursue in the long run.

     

    Why did you choose teaching as a job and not a corporate job?

    As mentioned before, my career decisions have been nothing short of a serendipitous discorvery. I moved to Patna upon my graduation to prepare for the the Civil Services Examination with a “dream” to join the Indian Foreign Service. Despite knowing that joining the government would severely curtail my ability to voice my dissent on pressing international issues, I was convinced( and am still partially) that it is the best platform to understand geopolitics. I joined CNLU, with the objective of using the university’s resources for my preparation.

    After an interview with the Vice-Chancellor, I was given the opportunity to join the University as his teaching assistant. My work profile ranged from handling the student recruitment/internship intitiave to delivering lectures on certain aspects of public international law and international trade law. This was my moment of epiphany and I am most thankful to the institution for this experience as it allowed me to discover my passion.

    Whenever I delivered a lecture, there was a feeling of self gratification and intellectual empowerment. The adulation I received from my students further assisted me in realizing that this was my calling in life. Ever since then all my career moves have been strategized to realize the ultimate dream of becoming most importantlya good teacher, and an authority in my field of specialization.

     

    What prompted you to join IIFT?

    (Rachit went on to join the Indian Institute of Foreign Trade as a research fellow.)

    A very renowned jurist told me that If I wanted to excel in academia, I must understand how each functionary of that discipline operates (i.e. academic/government/practiotioner). Since my area of primary interest was trade law, I wanted to join a government department to gain hands on experience on how policies are deliberated within such departments.

    I joined the Centre for WTO Studies at IIFT, which is a government think tank mandated with the task to assist the Ministry of Commerce and Industry on issues relating to international trade and investment policy. My work at the Centre ranged from writing policy papers for government officials to offering legal advice on international trade disputes and policies at the WTO.

     

    When did you finally decide to pursue masters?

    Since I was certain about pursuing academia, pursuing an LL.M. was a professional requirement. I concentrated on the top 15 schools in the U.S.  because after doing a lot of research on the LL.M. program in general,  I reached the decision that U.S. law schools offered a far greater level of academic rigor than U.K. or Indian law schools in their respective advanced degree programs.

     

    How did you get through the selection process of UC Berkeley School of law?

    I feel extremely fortunate about being admitted to a great institution like UC Berkeley. I don’t believe there are set criteria, which will decide your success in securing admission into such institutions. I certainly believe, that grades do play an immense role when you are aiming for the top institutions. However, even if you don’t have a stellar academic record, you can very well make up for it by your work experience, extra curricular activities and mostly importantly you statement of purpose.

    I have researched in great detail on how to prepare the best LL.M. application and will not be able to do justice to this question in the limited space. Perhaps I could write another piece on the aspects you must focus on while applying for your LL.M. If I had to sum it up, it all boils down to how well you are able to sell your achievements, interest in law, interest in the institution and how you fit in with the tradition of the respective institution coupled with the designation and background of your referees and the content of the recommendation.

    Click here to download the Personal Summary

    Click here to download the Statement of Purpose

     

    rachit-ranjan-2Tell us about your time at UC Berkeley.

    An LL.M. abroad is what you make of it. If you want to treat it like an extended holiday, it would be a fantastic holiday albeit very expensive. I was certain about what I wanted to attain from this experience. I went on the thesis track at UC Berkeley, which required me to write a dissertation of publishable quality. Naturally, this required a lot of research and background reading followed by grilling sessions with my supervisor.

    Apart from my thesis, I took international law courses at Berkeley. This was the first time I was exposed a proper socratic style of teaching, which required me to read about 200 pages on any given day. Initially, it was difficult for me to adjust to this practice but with time I managed to find balance between work and play and really enjoyed the assigned readings.

    I may add here for the voracious readers that legal reading is far more time-consuming and intellectualy exhausting than reading a novel.  I must admit that, by my own experiment, the socratic method is an extremely effective pedagogical tactic and must be implemented by every faculty in Indian law schools.

    My time at Berkeley is one of my most cherished memories. It was the first time, I had a complete college experience, where I actively participated in social and academic events. The faculty, staff as well as your peers from across the world made the task of settling in a new country and new education system extremely easy.

     

    How did the opportunity of teaching at Jindal Global Law School come to you?

    Upon graduating from Berkeley, I returned to India to pursue teaching while awaiting the decision on my application for internship at WTO. I heard great things about JGLS from many academics and decided to join the institution. My experience at JGLS was my first real exposure to teaching law. I was assigned to teach Alternate Dispute Resolution to third year students. I was also attached with two research centres within the institution. I believe JGLS is an institution with great promise provided they find a way of retaining talent. They certainly offer unprecendented incentives to aspiring academics but there remains a serious mismatch between the vision of the institution and its implementation. Nevertheless, my stint at JGLS was wonderful because it reinforced my decision to pursue academia. I met some brilliant academics and students there, whose support is essential for my development as a teacher.

     

    What do your responsibilities at the World Trade Organization, Geneva entail?

    The WTO has a very robust and an extremely competitive internship program. I had applied for an internship during my LL.M. (internship programme only selects professionals holding a masters degree) and decided to pursue teaching in the meantime to enhance my chances of securing a good PhD program.

    As a legal intern, my work can range from anything as mundane as updating footnotes on dispute reports to as interesting as providing legal input on an ongoing dispute at the WTO. I have been involved in formulating e-learning modules for delegates of Member States to working on thematic research papers, which study the dynamics between diplomacy and litigation with respect to disputes at the WTO. Till now, my exposure to trade was very academic but the internship has filled the void and allowed me to witness the day to day functioning of this institution and learn how trade deals/disputes are negotiated and executed at the highest level.

     

    What are the factors you consider while making a crucial decision?

    As mentioned above before I can call myself an full fledged academic, I must have an understanding of how each functionary of this discipline operates. I have made these career moves with this backdrop. I firmly believe that between you and your ultimate goal there is no room for complacency or satiability. As the American humorist Will Rogers quipped:

    “Even if you’re on the right track, you’ll get run over if you just sit there.”

     

    What are your long term goals?

    I intend to become a full time academic with a focus on international law in general and international trade and investment law in particular. Through this position and my work,  I intend to establish myself as an authority in my respective field and engage in policy making with governments across the world. The truth about law is, regardless of which avenue you choose to pursue, it will be an incredibly long and tedious journey towards your ultimate goal but the trick is to enjoy the process and the immense opportunities at your disposal.

  • Aastha Dhaon, In-house Counsel, Manupatra, on legal publishing, and her diverse experience

    Aastha Dhaon, In-house Counsel, Manupatra, on legal publishing, and her diverse experience

    Aastha Dhaon graduated from RMLNLU, Lucknow, in 2011. During this time she has interned with the likes of Mr. Arun Sinha, Senior Criminal Law Practitioner, Lucknow, India, Mr. Nirmal K. Seth – Senior Counsel, Lucknow, India (Civil), Nanavati Associates, among others. Since then she has gone on to work as Legal Associate at Chambers of Mr. J. N. Mathur, Additional Advocate General, Uttar Pradesh. She is currently in-house counsel, writer and legal editor at Manupatra.

    In this interview we speak to her about:

    • Being a fourth generation lawyer
    • Her interest in publishing
    • Her diverse experience

    How would you like to introduce yourself to our readers?

    I’d rather thank you for giving me this opportunity to connect back to where I belong. I am a proud Lucknowite, working here in Delhi with a lot of support from my mom and dad and a lot many dreams in my eyes.

     

    Why did you decide to study law?

    Law was never on my radar. I always wanted to be a famous painter. However, I first wanted to be an Architect. I got through the National Institute of Fashion Design (NIFT-Delhi) but, could not get through National Institute of Design (NID, Ahmedabad) the premier institute for design in India.  Hence, to sum it all up, law just happened, for which I usually tell people that it was in my blood.

    I qualified the entrance for the National Law School in Lucknow (Dr. RML NLU) and was part of the first batch of my University. My university really made me what I am today, personally as well as professionally. It really taught me ‘life’.

     

    What kind of internships did you do while you were a student?

    I never really focused on any one area in law. I interned everywhere I could get through really. Being the first batch of our institute, it really was a task convincing the high and mighty to give us opportunities, but, then we all were made out for law, we grabbed all opportunities coming our way. I interned under some senior Government Counsels, criminal lawyers, law firms, corporate houses and Non-Profit organisations as well. Since, I strongly believe in taking a multi-faceted approach towards things, hence, my aim was to get an experience in all directions so I could make better choices when choosing a particular work area in the legal field.

    My internship under a very well-known criminal lawyer in Lucknow was one of the most heart wrenching experience for me. He was handling quite a lot of famous criminal case, where a lot of media trials happened as well. Everybody used to have opinions on them, and there I was sitting with my boss’ clients in his chamber daily, listening to acts they may have done, and something inside me breaking every time. That was the time I saw a lot of small aspects involved in criminal law and I decided I had to drop my plan of becoming a female criminal lawyer for some time atleast.

     

    You worked as Legal Associate at Chambers of Mr. J. N. Mathur, Additional Advocate General, Uttar Pradesh. How was your experience there?

    This was an extended vacation time for me right after college, not because I did not work much (believe me I haven’t worked longer hours than I did here), but, because I have had some of the coolest seniors here. However, it was not all play without work. A few months into litigation my seniors gave me chances to handle my own individual cases, which nobody form my batch was really doing till then. Here, I worked on company matters, taxation matters, service matters, etc. Mr. J.N. Mathur has been one of the most dynamic, honest and hard-working advocates I have seen or heard about till date.

     

    What does a workday at Manupatra look like?

    Legal publishing was one dimension which remained untouched by me during my college days. I am soon completing a year here in Manupatra and it really feels great. Here at Manupatra, if you are really capable and a hard worker, a lot of varied opportunities are given to you time and again to prove your mettle. The senior management is one group of really smart and highly informed individuals, who not only are good at what they officially do, but, they are also adept at dealing with departments that they may have had no knowledge about.

    Just like in any other corporate house or a law firm, work in Manupatra is not as easy as it all looks. A lot of planning and hard work is done to bring forth everything on our site. A lot of value additions are made to our regular judgments, which go a long way in helping us all in our researches. And, of course, it is a big high being a part of something based on whose research we actually passed our law schools.

    Our day starts at sharp 9 a.m. with updation of new legal news, then selecting what judgments are to actually go onto our site, meetings, coffee-breaks, less of chit-chatting and a lot of work, etc. The office usually closes down by 6:30 in the evening. So this job, not only gives me the exposure of working in the best Legal Publishing House in India, but, it also gives me a chance to create a work-life balance in my life.

     

    What would be your advice to law student interested in working with a publishing house?

    As contrary to how the working in the publishing houses seem, when compared to law firms and litigation, the work scenario is not much different. It requires the same amount of commitment, or even sometimes more, to finish off our assignments within strict guidelines. Online publishing is a race against time. To feel content with your work at the end of the day, there is a lot of running around you need to accomplish during your work hours in office. Publishing demands unflinching attention and the zeal to achieve the best you can in very short spans of time. Everything in a publishing house is urgent. Nothing can be given a second position of importance. You need a lot of time management skills in here. Of course, apart from this, good writing skills could give you the opportunities of getting into legal writing as well. There may be days when you feel like giving up, but, those are really the days when you should just hang on, and wait for something better to happen for you.

     

    Do you feel that publishing may become a major career avenue for law graduates in the future?

    Publishing is ‘the thing’ coming up for sure. There are very few players in this field at present and the future does hold a lot of open ground for new people to come and settle in. Publishing is a major field abroad, however, it is catching up here in India now. Publishing houses can give you chances of working not only as an editor, but, they can rope you in as their legal advisors as well, giving you a chance of working multi-dimensionally.

     

    What would have you done, if not law?

    I would definitely have been a professional painter, trying to make this world a more artistic place to live.

     

    What’s your take on work life balance?

    Work-life balance is very essential. When we start out, with all our ambitions we just throw ourselves into work. Today, the longer working hours you can boast of, the more successful and hard working you are considered. However, a few months down the line, your life shakes up and you realize only work is not going to help you in life. There are a lot of human beings that you need around you to survive; you need to move out and socialize. Yes, I agree our profession does not really give us the liberty to have a life, but, the more you try the easier it is to get out of the vicious circle, and believe me, work’s perfect when you actually do have a life beyond work. More so, what are you going to do with all your hard earned money if you don’t really have the time to even spend some of it! Won’t that really be quite sad?

     

    How do you spend you time when you are not working? Any hobbies?

    Painting and sketching – that’s what I do. I love going out with my friends, spending time with them, as well as meeting new people. I was so stuck up in my field until recently, when I met a whole bunch of some of the brightest people ever when I got selected to attend RELEAD – an International Conference on Leadership at the Indian Institute of Management (IIM – Bangalore). It gave me a whole new perspective about work, life and the world. It brought in a whole lot of new aspects to my life.

     

    What would be your message for law students planning to join the publishing industry?

    I would definitely suggest them to try out this new upcoming field. I would ask them to be patient and be ready to slog it out if they really want to enjoy the fruits of their work. And, of course, develop love for what you do, because it is not always that you may do what you really love.

  • Sameer Jain, Partner, PAMASIS Law Chambers, on working at Goldman Sachs and the challenges of starting your own law firm

    Sameer Jain, Partner, PAMASIS Law Chambers, on working at Goldman Sachs and the challenges of starting your own law firm

    Sameer Jain graduated from NLU, Jodhpur, in 2008. While still in college he had the opportunity to work as a Summer Employee at Goldman Sachs and after graduating he started working at Ernst & Young as a Consultant and later joined Luthra & Luthra Law offices as an associate. With all his work experience and expertise garnered from law firms in India and abroad he  started his own corporate law firm, PAMASIS Law Chambers.

    We asked him to share his thoughts about:

    • What he learned from mooting and looking for sponsors
    • Coming from a family of lawyers
    • Getting a job with Goldman Sachs

    Tell us a bit about your childhood.

    My childhood was somewhat nomadic. Since my father was in a transferable job, we changed cities every three years. That meant new school, new friends and new surroundings. It was exciting to experience so many changes in the early days of my childhood. These experiences made me more acceptable and adaptable to change.

    I have many lawyers and judges in my family. My father is a judge, my mother is a lawyer and my elder brother is also a lawyer. My cousins are also practising law. Apart from them, both my grandfathers were lawyers too.

    That said, I would be lying if I told you that I always wanted to become a lawyer and nothing else. My earliest fantasy was to join the Indian Army and serve my country, but that couldn’t materialize due to some reasons. Besides, I was quite fascinated by technology and doing something in that field was also on my mind. At one point in time, while I was studying in the commerce stream in classes 11th and 12th, I was also participating in various other competitions, such as robotics.

    How I decided to do law is an interesting story as well. Though consciously even till the last year of my school I had not decided to become a lawyer, but there was something about it which always fascinated me. I remember once going to the High Court with my mother and watching this lawyer argue an Intellectual Property matter very eloquently. He was extremely thorough with both the law and the technology involved. That was the day I decided to become a lawyer. Rest is history!

     

    Do you think having family members or mentors with a legal background help in this profession?

    [sociallocker] It certainly is helpful in the initial years, of both law school and the profession. At the law school, being surrounded by lawyers can be rather helpful as the terminology and the procedures being taught are already imprinted in the mind. Moreover, one has a subtle edge over the others since he/she is able to discuss the finer points of his curriculum in an informal environment, with the people who have the practical experience of the field. However, this is just a minor advantage. It is a lot more complicated on the professional front. At the end of the day, it becomes necessary for every student to burn the midnight oil to excel in studies.

    Merely having family members or a mentor with a legal background may not be of much assistance. For example, if someone chooses to work with a professional law firm through college recruitment process after graduation, a family background in law may not help. You will have to go through the same gruelling schedule as anyone else who does not have a similar upbringing. On the other hand, if you choose to litigate, having someone who is already established in the profession and is a senior would only help you to get that initial push to get referral matters.

    Furthermore, in this era of super specialization, having someone from a completely unrelated background may also be of no assistance to the new professional. I, for example, with a specialization in Taxation and Land Acquisition, have not benefitted from the fact that I have a number of lawyers and judges in my family.

    However, I firmly believe that, irrespective of your background, what makes you succeed in this profession in the long run is your grit, determination, eye for detail and eloquence.

     

    Tell us about your law school experience. Share some highlights from your college days that shaped you as a lawyer.

    My five years at National Law University, Jodhpur were the most enjoyable and important years of my life. Apart from teaching me the fundamentals of law, my term at law school also taught me how to research, moot, debate, finish work within extremely tight deadlines, think on my feet, face challenges and also run for my life, if need be!

    Jokes apart, half the things I learnt at law school, and which played a crucial role in my becoming what I am today, were not all part of the curriculum.

    Compulsory moot courts in every law subject taught us how to conduct research on legal points, apply the case laws and argue even the weakest of matters. By the time I graduated, I had presented over 60 moot courts.

    At NLU, Jodhpur, it was mandatory for everyone to make projects in every subject. This really groomed my research and drafting skills. Also, what I developed was an art to find information at the right place and in no time.

    Crunching mid-term exams, snap tests, projects, moot courts, paper presentations and leisure in a short span of time not only taught me how to manage my time, but also enhanced my skills of multi-tasking, working in a team and being happy during hard times.

    During my five years at law school, I was lucky to get many opportunities to travel around the world as well in within India to present papers and participate in moot courts. Travelling overseas required a lot of money and coming from not a very affluent background, it was obviously not affordable. Therefore, we resorted to requesting for sponsorship. The whole team approached lawyers, government and corporate houses and requested them to fund our trips. This exercise was particularly very important since it taught me four lessons:

    1)      Putting forth your point in the shortest possible manner and time, since senior lawyers did not have time to read or attend to long calls from a law student;

    2)      Art of approaching the otherwise seemingly unapproachable people. I remember faxing a request for sponsorship to the then Hon’ble Chief Minister of Rajasthan and following up with a call to her office every evening for three days. Finally, the Hon’ble Chief Minister did not only return my call and spoke to me she also sponsored our entire trip to Geneva. I realized that sometimes the difference between success and failure is that one step that one should never fail to take;

    3)      Art of persistence: getting a sponsorship was a long process and you had to be gracefully persistent with seniors till you got a final answer; and

    4)      Taking rejection in a stride. Ninety per cent of our calls/e-mails bore no fruits!

     

    Do you think participating in extracurricular activities helps a student in the long run?

    Yes, most certainly they do! I strongly encourage every law student to participate in as many conferences, debates and moot courts as he/she can. Not just for the academic gains that it brings, but also for expanding one’s network and wealth of experience.

    At every conference, debate or moot court competition you meet people from different backgrounds, countries, ethnicities and age groups discussing/arguing on the same matter. It is fascinating to learn about the different interpretations in which a proposition can be given.

    I, along with a friend, participated in a paper presentation competition organized by the TATA Institute of Social Sciences, Mumbai. The topic for that year’s paper was ‘Spaces’. It was amazing to see how the word ‘Spaces’ was differently interpreted by lawyers, management students, engineers and social sciences students.

    These activities help to expand your horizon considerably.

     

    What are the best internships that you did, and how did they help you to develop as a lawyer?

    My best internship was at Goldman Sachs’s Legal Department in Bangalore. There were several things about that organization that made my stint most memorable and enriching. The legal team there was relatively new when I joined them for internship. There were only five members including the Vice President, Legal. Each member of the team supported the Goldman offices in the USA and EMEA region on specified areas, such as Commercial Contracts, ISDA Derivative Contracts negotiations, etc. I was hired to support the internal legal team and work directly under the VP, Legal. My role included drafting and vetting commercial contracts, researching on various laws such as labour laws, taxation and narcotics, and to support the business in any off-hand legal query that would arise.

    What initially appeared to be a very regular legal internship turned out to be the most enriching three months, because my boss entrusted me with a lot of responsibility. I was independently sent for discussions with the CFO and the MD. I was given the opportunity to not only sit through live negotiations, but even encouraged to equally participate in them. I was also given a lot of freedom to undertake many tasks. But, most importantly, I got along rather well with the other members of the legal team — I made great friends. That helped me get a deep insight into their work and understand the broader scheme of things. Sometimes I also assisted them by working overtime. My internship was extended and I was called back to work with them once again as a ‘Summer Employee’.

    Furthermore, apart from their legal work, Goldman is also known for its strong HR culture. They believe in developing human capital. Therefore, the organization goes an extra mile to take care of their employees irrespective of their role, position, responsibility or tenure. They treat you like a King/Queen — gourmet food, pick-and-drop service, separate security desk, lavish office, and a very handsome stipend!

    By the end of my internship I realized that, as an intern, it is best to choose to work in a small team, as the learning opportunities are immense and you can take on more responsibility. However, in a big team, if you are not experienced you may just end up pushing papers and researching on case laws. A small team and the increased responsibility give you a chance to prove yourself, make mistakes and learn. You also end up making better interpersonal bonds.

     

    How important do you think is an LL.M. for a lawyer who wants to practice as a corporate lawyer?

    Doing an LL.M. does add to one’s educational qualification, understanding of the subject and networking, but I would not say that doing an LL.M. is an absolute necessity for everyone.

    Though, I have observed a trend where students pursue an LL.M. course immediately after graduation. I think that it may be a wrong move. Doing an LL.M. soon after graduation may not yield the same result since it merely becomes an extension of the three/five year course. The purpose of an LL.M. is to give a specialized insight into the subjects of one’s choice. A fresh graduate may not be fully aware of his interests immediately after graduation. I recommend that an LL.M. course should be opted after gaining some years of work experience. The experience would help in making a more informed decision regarding the subjects one wishes to study further. I have seen instances where students have completed an LL.M. in Intellectual Property Law immediately after graduation and ended up practising Corporate Law once they started working. In such a situation the time and money spent in doing an LL.M. goes waste. Therefore, to avoid this, one should always make a decision only after gaining a few years of experience and then choosing the LL.M. course and college on the basis of the subject and area of law they wish to specialize in, from their career perspective.

    I have still not done an LL.M. As explained earlier, I have consciously hopped from a corporate house to a consultancy firm to a law firm and then finally to doing litigation. I have explored all the avenues that the profession of law has to offer and zeroed down on the one most suitable for me. I now know which areas of law I would like to specialize in and from where. I may take up an LL.M. course in Dispute Resolution, whenever time permits.

     

    Tell us about your first job.

    My first recruitment after graduation was in the Tax and Regulatory Department of Ernst & Young Private Limited. My work there was very intense and gruelling. My manager loved his work and was addicted to perfection. I remember often working for 36-40 hours at a stretch, handling client meetings, making memos, and then attending tax classes in whatever time remained.

    It is very different for a lawyer to work in a predominantly accounting firm. The team at E&Y comprised both chartered accountants (CAs) and lawyers. CAs are naturally great with numbers, and that meant working twice as hard to learn both law and accounting.

    My stint at E&Y was a great learning experience. It was, single-handedly, responsible for shaping me as a professional and as a tax lawyer. I owe it completely to the strict regimentation of my manager and the then Tax Head.

    The biggest challenges that I faced during this transformation were to learn the art of punctuality, approaching an issue from a practical and commercial standpoint, drafting and putting work before personal chores.

     

    You are currently a Partner at Pamasis Law Chambers. How was your journey from a Law student to a Partner.

    My journey from a law student to founding PAMASIS Law Chambers was like a rollercoaster ride. As I said before, I consciously chose to experience every role one can experience as a lawyer — as an in-house counsel, a consultant, in a law firm, an associate and a litigation lawyer. Playing all these roles helped me make the informed decision to do what I am doing today. There is nothing in my career which, I could say, happened by accident.

    The milestones from being a law student to Partner, PAMASIS Law Chambers are as under:

    • Internship and then summer employment at Goldman Sachs: This gave me a taste of working with one of the world’s best organizations very early. It helped me develop my professional skills even before graduation.
    • Tax Consultant at Ernst & Young: My stint here shaped me as a thorough professional and taught me every detail about the subject. It also helped me realize that presentation and drafting is as important as knowing about law.
    • Associate at Luthra & Luthra: This gave me an experience in both litigation and advisory role. It helped me choose what I love the most, i.e., litigation.
    • Guest Faculty at Institute of Chartered Accountants of India: Teaching helped me feel liberated. The sense of sharing is very satisfying.
    • Starting PAMASIS Law Chambers: All the above experiences made me decide that this is what I want to do — starting my own firm and using all the knowledge from these institutions to build an organization that is focused on providing great legal solutions.

     

    How does one prepare oneself to be a lawyer at Goldman Sachs?

    Goldman Sachs’s Legal team has one of the toughest selection procedures. Sometimes, interviews go on for as long as six months involving upto eighteen to twenty rounds with different people.

    The first step is to apply for an open position, which is normally advertised on their website. If you pass the pre-screening, you will get a call from the HR for the first round of interview. After that, depending on the position you have applied for, there will be a mix of personal, audio-visual and telephonic interviews.

    First and the foremost, prepare yourself well for the subject area for which you are giving the interview. Second, Goldman Sachs gives a lot of importance to thinking on the feet and, therefore, a lot of thought-provoking questions will be thrown at you. For example, why a manhole cover is round or how many petrol pumps are there in the New York City. They also ask a lot of analytical and probability-related questions, since that relates to the business of investment banking, such as: If I toss a coin 99 times and I get Heads all 99 times, what is the probability of getting Tails at the 100th toss. Most people get it wrong. It is called the Gamblers fallacy. Studying things like these would be an added advantage. Lastly, be thorough with the working of the organization, the latest happenings, deals, etc., related to the organization.

     

    You left one of the finest law firms in the country and started your own law firm in 2012. What made you take this decision?

    It wasn’t a very hard decision to leave Luthra & Luthra to start PAMASIS Law Chambers. The organization gave me a lot of experience and insight into the practice of law. The key is to make up your mind; but once that is done, acting on your decision is not easy. The journey will not be a cakewalk; but handling the situation with a firm mind can make the obstacles appear less difficult and less frustrating.

    Starting my own practice was a decision that was taken over a long period of time. Everything was thought through and discussed with a lot of people.  My family was extremely supportive and encouraged me throughout the journey.

     

    What are the top three challenges of setting up your own law firm?

    The top three challenges in setting up your own law firm are as under:

    • Building a new client base: The biggest handicap of starting up a law firm is that you cannot advertise or engage in any kind of social media marketing. Thus, spreading the name of the firm is the biggest challenge. The firm is independent of the partners and has to develop its own independent image. That brand-building during the initial days is tough.
    • Managing the processes: The processes that are in place in an already established firm are absent in a new setup, and it is a challenge to establish everything along with the other more important tasks, such as bringing in clients, executing the work, etc. Processes like new matter opening, filing, billing, etc., are crucial but often take a backseat during the initial few months.
    • Accounting and Recovery: Setting up a new law firm involves a completely different system of accounting compared to an individual lawyer. During the initial days of establishment, this aspect remains completely ignored since billing is relatively less and the specialized manpower has not been hired. One realizes that invariably there will be one or two minor violations in the process. The trick is to focus on these as early as possible and rectify at the soonest. Recovery of invoices is another issue which a start-up faces. Normally, there is a separate desk to follow up on unpaid invoices, which is not present in a start-up law firm — one is always pulled between building fresh, long-lasting relationships and getting a bill paid. Recovery calls made by the same person who has executed the work becomes somewhat awkward for a start-up.

     

    Do you take interns?

    We do take interns. The most important qualities that we look for in an intern are: he/she should be a leader, problem-solver, self-motivated and daring. A good knowledge of law is something that can be acquired over a period of time.

    An intern should send us an email at info@pamasis.com with a cover letter specifying the duration of the internship that is being sought for. We encourage an intern to apply at least 3-4 months in advance.

     

    What would be your advice to our young readers who may be aspiring to start their own law firms one day?

    My advice to all the young readers who wish to start their own firm is not to rush into it just because you see a successful example in front of you. Give it a serious thought, chalk out a plan, think where the revenue will come from and save for at least a year with zero-revenue sustenance. I am not saying that do not take any risks. Take a calculated risk. Also, gain substantial experience before starting a firm. Obtain specialization in at least one area of law. Remember that once you have started a firm you will be at the top of it. There will be no one to review your work and make edits before sending it out to the client. This is a huge responsibility. Make sure you are equipped and experienced enough to send out documents and advice independently.

    My last advice is very important. I received it from a close friend and it has come really handy. He told me to keep the fixed expenses at the minimum in the initial years. The most basic tendency is to immediately rent a fancy office, buy a bigger car and keep more staff as soon as the first stream of revenue starts flowing in. It is advised to curb this for the first two or three years. There are bound to be downturns; it is a service industry. Sustaining when the chips are low is the key to success in this business. Therefore, increase your fixed expenditure only when you are absolutely sure of the minimum revenue stream.

    [/sociallocker]

  • Ganesh Chandru, Partner, Rodyk & Davidson, on arbitration as a career option and regime of arbitration in India

    Ganesh Chandru, Partner, Rodyk & Davidson, on arbitration as a career option and regime of arbitration in India

    Ganesh Chandru is a partner in Rodyk & Davidson LLP’s Litigation & Arbitration Practice Group. He is admitted to practice in Singapore, England and India, and is a Fellow of the Chartered Institute of Arbitrators and the Singapore Institute of Arbitrators.

    The GNLU Digital Media Team had the opportunity to interview him at ‘Changing Face of Arbitration’ seminar about some very specific areas of the Arbitration Law in India.

     

    What advice would you give to law students who wish to take up arbitration as a career option?

     

    Apart from organising Moots and Seminars, what can a law school do in order to generate interest among the students towards arbitration?

     

    What can be done to reshape the arbitration regime in our country?

  • Varun Chauhan, Law Graduate, GNU, on being the batch topper, a sports enthusiast and receiving a PPO from AMSS

    Varun Chauhan, Law Graduate, GNU, on being the batch topper, a sports enthusiast and receiving a PPO from AMSS

    Varun Chauhan is a student of GNLU, Gandhinagar, batch of 2015. During this time has has interned with Singhi & Co., Unmesh D. Shukla, Gujarat State Petroleum Corporation Ltd., Vaish Associates, AMSS, Khaitan & Co., and Shardul Amarchand Mangaldas. He helps organise ‘Justice League’, the university’s sports fest, and he is also a mentor in the Sports Committee of the university.

    Varun was most recently offered a pre-placement offer from Amarchand & Mangaldas & Suresh A. Shroff & Co.

    In this interview we speak to him about:

    • Topping his batch in GNLU
    • Being a sports enthusiast and his involvement in the Sports Committee
    • Getting a ‘callback’ and a PPO from AMSS

     

    As a child what were your ambitions?

    As a child I wanted to be many things but when I really started exploring my career options, I decided to become a lawyer. I found law to be very interesting and challenging. It was something that was logical, yet it demanded critical and analytical reasoning. I am going to be a first generational lawyer.

     

    Tell us about your pre-college life as well as educational background.

    I did most of my schooling at St. Xavier’s Loyola Hall, Ahmedabad. There I was introduced to sports. I became a member of the school football team and represented Ahmedabad District-Urban in the U-14 level. Apart from football I used to represent my class in cricket and basketball. Another part of the school was the leadership camps that were organized by Fr. Charlie. These camps were held every year and it is here that I developed my first lessons in leadership, responsibility and oration.

     

    How did you plan your academics and other activities as a freshman?

    I consider myself to be extremely lucky to have an amazing set of seniors who were always ready to offer their advice and help. It is their advice and help which allowed me to plan my first year of law school. Since on the first day, they told me to lay most of my focus on academics and then to build an all-round CV. It is under their advice that I have planned all my semesters in GNLU. I still recall that at the end of my first semester, one of my senior’s, told me of how when he was finally preparing his CV to submit to the Committee on Recruitment Affairs-he and his friends had a difficult time in chopping down their five-six page long CVs’ to the three pages. I decided to make this my goal and it really helped me in developing different skills and laws.

     

    How do you organise events at your university?

    (Varun is an active member of the GNLU Sports Committee and have been majorly associated in organizing Justice League, the first inter college sports fests at GNLU.)

    I remember the day like it was yesterday when Mr. Surya a senior then in his fourth your saw me playing football and asked me to join the Sports Committee. Since, then I have never regretted that decision nor have I ever looked back. I have spent most of my time outside of academics working for the Sports Committee. I rose from a member in the first year to a Secretary in second to a Co-convenor in third and finally, last year I took the role of a Mentor. I believe that working in the Sports Committee has helped me immensely in becoming a person more well acquainted with the real world. My duties since joining, has been to balance the budget, to get permissions and authorizations for Sports Infrastructure, to organize Intra and Inter-University tournaments. I have spent many nights finding ways to balance budgets and to cut costs to get the best Sports Infrastructure. These challenges have helped me grow immensely and they have given me an exposure to the harsh practical realities of life.

     

    How do you manage to eke out time for sporting activities?

    If you love something, you will always find time for it. I planned my semesters according to the sports calendar. And planning over here means that, I had to decide on what to do and what not to. Which activities could be sacrificed and which couldn’t. There are many things that I had to miss out on but in the end it was all worth it.

     

    GNLU runs an academic support programme in which you work in the capacity of a teaching assistant. Tell us about the programme.

    I have been a founding member of the Academic Support Programme (ASP) since the idea for it was conceived and executed by Mr. Prashanth Ramdas. The ASP is a program where students from senior classes take sessions for juniors on their request for such sessions. These sessions are mostly requested by students who require more understanding of any particular concept or face a language barrier. I remember that I took a session where everything I said, had to be repeated by me in Hindi so that a student facing difficulties in English could understand.

     

    Tell us how you managed to excel in academics and also give time to your sporting activities.

    As I said, I was lucky to have seniors who gave me the right advice. So, since Day 1, I knew that I had to be the batch topper. The only way to manage time is to put value to it. If you are studying then put 100% to it, if you are playing or relaxing, then put 100% to it. If you are in conversation or an activity where you are not putting your 100% or where you are not enjoying, walk away from it. You need to learn to prioritize. The beauty or should I say the tough side of learning to prioritize is that the only way you can learn to prioritize is if you take on two to three things at a time. In my first year apart from being in the Sports Committee and ASP, I did not undertake any extra-activity except for a brief Vibrant Gujarat Discussion Core Committee. However, in my second year apart from Sports Committee and ASP, I presented a paper in two conferences and was part of the Maritime Conference Core Committee and did much more extra-work. The third year I did the iPleaders Entrepreneurship Administration and Business Laws course, Bridge Mediation course, a moot and of course Sports Committee and ASP. So you basically get the idea. As I got better at prioritizing, I took on more work and that in itself helped me to get better.

     

    What is your view on taking notes in class?

    Honestly, it depends on one’s personal choice. Initially I used to take notes in all classes. But, now I am very selective about it. It depends on the subject being taught and my ability to take notes in that subject. Sometimes when you take notes, you stop understanding the concept being taught, so it’s more of a personal choice of what suits you.

     

    Did you also study from books other than the prescribed ones?

    Yes and no. Again it depended on the subject and more importantly the concept. If I would find a concept to be tough, then I would even go to the extent of reading the commentary on that particularly concept. But, again this is your personal choice. You need to be smart with this.

     

    Has there been a change in your study schedule after joining law school?

    Yes. I used to spend almost every weekday of my first semester in the library for at least two to three hours. I used to read on jurisprudence and other legal issues which were relevant at the time. On Sundays’ I used to go through my notes of the week. I used to do this as I felt I was new to law and that concepts were at first hard to understand. However, since my second year the time that I spent in the library kept on decreasing and so did my Sunday’s reading. This in no way affected my ability to understand and learn the subjects being taught. The point I am trying to make is that if in your initial years you spend a lot of time in trying to understand law, then later learning different laws becomes really easy.

    It’s like the Latin motto that my school had: A Teneris Impende Laborem– Apply yourself to hard work from an early age.

     

    What is your take on peer pressure?

    Peer Pressure can make or break you in law school. Its very important to be friends with the right people. Any wrong step and it has a butterfly effect. I was lucky to have a set of friends who always helped me with my concepts, with notes, with having fun, so on and so forth. Its very important that you don’t fall prey to “peer pressure”. Something that maybe right for someone else may not be right thing for you. You are in law-school and its the time to grow up-stay young and innocent while learning but when it comes to making choices and taking tough decisions, make sure you do that with all of your own mind.

     

    varun-chauhan-2

    How practical do you think are the shows like The Practice, J.A.G., Boston Legal, Suits, etc. and movies like 12 Angry Men, Philadelphia, etc.?

    I would recommend watching them only after you are sure about doing law. You don’t want to be attracted to the glamour as shown in these shows. There is a difference between reality and what really happens. Nevertheless, there are a few benefits if you watch them:

    • It’s good for a conversation because most lawyers watch these shows
    • You get somewhat of a basic idea of the US legal system
    • You learn about different cases and creative lawyering
    • There is some law that you can always learn from these shows if you look closely. I learnt the Crown Jewel takeover defence from Suits.

     

    What brought you towards Corporate Law?

    My internships at Amarchand & Mangaldas & Suresh A. Shroff & Co., New Delhi brought me towards Corporate Law. I interned here twice before getting my Pre-Placement Offer. The work that I did in Corporate Law here challenged me to analyze problems practically and critically. It intellectually stimulated me to think harder to find solutions to the issues that a transaction could face.

     

    Please tell us about the Corporate Governance course you undertook under Prof. Umakanth Varottil.

    The Corporate Governance course was organised by my university. Prof. Umakanth Varottil was invited to deliver the lectures. It is one of the best courses that I have attended. Prof. Varottil used the Socratic method of teaching which meant that we had to read and come for class. This allowed for more fruitful discussion and discourse in class.

    The questions posed by Prof. Varottil in itself challenged you to think critically and to analyze solutions to the Corporate Governance problem. This course was really helpful and it gave me a deeper understanding of Corporate Law.

     

    What are the things you consider sine qua non for positive feedback from an internship?

    An intern needs to be ready to do all kinds of work. Take all work given seriously. Don’t underestimate the importance of a single comma or full stop. Proof reading and due-diligences teach you a lot about the different types of contracts that exist and the way they are drafted. They teach a lot of how businesses run, grow and die. The best place to learn contract drafting is at an internship. It is really important to have a good all round personality. But, the most important of all is the way you speak and have a conversation in English. It is extremely important that you focus on this skill and be fluent in English. Another important virtue that you need to posses is the quality of being humble at all times. While these help you make a good first impression, the next two skills are the ones that make the entire difference when your evaluation is being filled:

    • Research Skills and
    • Eye for detail.

    Most of the work that anyone will receive at any internship is research. To work on your research skills, one should moot, write papers, intern in places where you will primarily be given more research work. To develop an eye for detail is much harder. To develop it, I recommend that you be part of committee organizing a conference or an internship committee or journal review board. One of the tasks in these committee is proof reading and editing. Initially you will be slow but with time, you will get strong at this skill.

     

    Any tips on how one should go about framing a C.V. and prepare for an interview?

    If a person is applying on their own then they should draft their CV in such a way that it stands out in a professional manner. Put your academics first and then put any moot win or huge publication or award or scholarship you received. Then comes internships. Be as specific and as to the point as you can on the work done in your internships. The top two internships should have at least four to five specific points of the work you did in those internships.

     

    Keeping academics a priority, what are the things you would say that a student should try other than academics?

    Strive to have an all round CV. Intern with different courts, companies, law firms and do it early so that when you make a final decision, you are sure about it. Represent your University in at least one moot, be part of at least one committee for two years, present at least one paper at a conference and  have at least one publication. No doubt, this will give you an allround CV, but more importantly you will have had different experiences and perspectives of working and thinking about law. These experiences are very valuable in learning and discovering strengths that you never thought you had or you could develop.

  • Ashutosh Ray, Law Assistant, on White Industries and Investment Treaty Arbitrations

    Ashutosh Ray, Law Assistant, on White Industries and Investment Treaty Arbitrations

    Ashutosh Ray had graduated in 2012 from GNLU, Gandhinagar. Thereafter he has been working on various Arbitration Proceedings as a Law Assistant to Mr. Justice A M Ahmadi, Former Chief Justice of India.

    The GNLU Digital Media Team had the opportunity to interview him at ‘Changing Face of Arbitration’ seminar about some very specific areas of the Arbitration Law in India.

     

    After the White Industries award, what are the implications on Investment Treaty Arbitration today?

     

    Certainly the White Industries award has opened floodgates to a lot of claims. What should be the approach of the Govt. of India now?

     

    Your views on the issue of transparency?

    (Transparency is a pertinent issue when discussing Investment Arbitration and Ashutosh recently wrote an article on Transparency Issue for Indian Express.)

     

    What do you think the Govt. of India should do to reshape the position of investment arbitration law which exist today?

  • Shishir Dholakia, Senior Counsel, Supreme Court, on a career in Arbitration in India and the White Industries effect

    Shishir Dholakia, Senior Counsel, Supreme Court, on a career in Arbitration in India and the White Industries effect

    Mr. Shishir Dholakia is a Senior Counsel at the Supreme Court of India with 45 years of experience in litigation practice, over 1000+ cases with specialization in arbitration, commercial and tax laws. He is a leading expert on arbitration law, in particular on the value and applicability of the UNCITRAL Model Law to India.

    The GNLU Digital Media Team had the opportunity to interview him at ‘Changing Face of Arbitration’ seminar about some very specific areas of the Arbitration Law in India.

     

    What would be your advice to law students who wish to take up arbitration as a career?

     

    What kind of skills must a student have if he/she wants to take-up arbitration?

     

    What are your comments on the current state of Arbitration Law in India?

     

    After the recent White Industries award which went against India, what do you think shall be the implication on the Arbitration regime of our country?

     

    Certain International Commentators have taken a counter view and they have argued that the host state should keep an eye on functioning on Judiciary. What are your views?

     

    Some newspaper reports has suggested that the Govt. of India has started revising all its BITs after this award. What do you think can be done for improving the investment law regime as a whole?

  • Rohit Pothukuchi, Affiliated Fellow, Harvard, on Standard Indian Legal Citation, work with White & Case, and speaking at UNESCO

    Rohit Pothukuchi, Affiliated Fellow, Harvard, on Standard Indian Legal Citation, work with White & Case, and speaking at UNESCO

    Rohit Pothukuchi graduated from NALSAR, Hyderabad, in 2013. Subsequently he went on to pursue his Masters from UC Berkley School of Law. He is the Founder and Chief Editor of Standard Indian Legal Citation (SILC). He serves as an Affiliate Student Research Fellow, Harvard Law School Program on the Legal Profession. He will soon be joining White & Case LLP as an associate in NY. In 2013, Rohit was invited to speak as a panelist at UNESCO headquarters in Paris. Rohit will speak to us about:

    • Founding and being Chief Editor for Standard Indian Legal Citation (SILC)
    • Speaking at the UNESCO
    • Joining White & Case, NY as an Associate
    • Serving as an Affiliate Student Research Fellow, Harvard Law School Program on the Legal Profession

     

    How would you describe your childhood, pre-college life and educational background?

    I spent most of my high school years in Kodaikanal, TN, where I attended the Kodaikanal International School. When I was accepted to NLSIU Bangalore and NALSAR, I chose to attend NALSAR, primarily to spend more time with my family, parents and grandparents. Law and policy have always interested me. Although I almost chose to pursue a career in medicine or finance, I chose law because its such a versatile subject,and it affects so many aspects of society.

     

    What are your responsibilities as the Chief Editor and the Founding Editor of the Standard Indian Legal Citation (SILC)?

    (Rohit has been a pioneer in creating and promoting our own Indian citation format. SILC now has registered users at over 85 law schools, numerous firms, and courts across India. )

    There was a strong requirement for an Indian citation system. Researchers were frustrated with the difficulty of finding appropriate citation standards for Indian legal sources, most of which are not covered by foreign citation systems. Foreign manuals could be hard to find, expensive, and were just not tailored for India. You have to keep in mind, most of these foreign systems were created for their respective countries (the UK, the US, etc.)—it was time for a change. Debanshu Khettry, Shambo Nandy (the other two founding editors), and I first started discussing this idea when we were doing our B.A.LL.B. At first the task looked very daunting, and even impossible. Convincing the Indian legal community—a group of some of the most argumentative individuals I know—to change their practices is by no means an easy looking task. I didn’t think we could reach a wide enough audience.

    However, I felt it was the right thing to do and that we should put in our best effort. I took leadership as Chief Editor. We have truly been lucky to reach the nation -wide audience that we have, and I am so thankful to all of the practicing lawyers, faculty members, and students who have started using SILC and have taken the initiative to join us in this national movement. SILC has truly been a team effort, Before I speak about my responsibilities, I would like to acknowledge the efforts of our entire team of hard working editors from across India and our phenomenal advisors. SILC would not have taken off without them.

    I especially acknowledge Vikrant Pachnanda, Akshay Sreevatsa, and Megha Mathur, senior editors of SILC, who have put in tremendous efforts and bounds of time to make this citation system a reality. As Chief Editor I was responsible for overseeing all aspects of the citation system. Particularly, setting a vision, building a team, being involved with drafting the citation system, and the daunting task of getting this to a nation-wide audience. I had to think of ways to build an India-centric citation system that was easy and appropriate for a variety of uses and user groups ranging from practicing lawyers to law students to even non-lawyers reading legal material. Seeking the right guidance and building the right team were critical aspects in doing this. As a recent graduate, you can only possess so many skill sets. But in the aggregate, as a team, you can put together the skills needed to create an appropriate citation system. Once our core team of senior editors came together we were able to do this. I reached out to some of the nations leading lawyers and academics to try and get insights on how to make this citation system practical and useful for India—many of them were kind enough to join our advisory panel. Subsequently we added editors from across India who had great experience with journals at their law schools and with legal research.

    I came up with the name “SILC”, because it was catchy and appropriate. Almost everyone I spoke to loved the name, and we stuck with it. I first created the logo on Microsoft word, and eventually ended up providing rough sketches and designs for most of the web-site to our web developers. Our entire team of editors and advisors unanimously wanted a citation system that was not exclusively built and just put online. We wanted this to be a movement of lawyers and students across the nation who are choosing an India-centric citation system that is more suited to the nation’s needs.I hope we have made a move in this direction. We launched a “working draft”, precisely because we wanted to get input from as many practicing lawyers, faculty members, and students as possible. This is, after all, a system built for the Indian legal community, and we wanted to hear from that community before a version 1. Additionally, we wanted this to be accessible to everyone—some foreign citation manuals really can be expensive for Indian audiences and hard to find—cost should not be one of the reasons that deters a student from research.

    If you are interested in learning more, I have spoken about SILC in a podcast/interview with MyLaw, which you can listen to here: http://blog.mylaw.net/a-new-citation-system-for-uniquely-indian-legal-material/

     

    What is the vision going forward?

    The “working draft” is in circulation and we are getting input from as many students, faculty, and practitioners as possible. I am also conducting a survey for some research, its not directly related to SILC, but is related to citation practices across India and will help us understand areas where citation standards needs to improve. I am thankful to everyone who is able to take it. It can be accessed here.

     

    What has been the most gratifying moment for you with regard to SILC?

    I think the first few days, launching the citation system, and getting such a fantastic response was frankly a very very happy time for me. I never would have expected registrations from across the country, and such a positive response from academics, students, and practitioners alike. Students from more than 40 law schools registered in the first few days, and we got so many great responses. It’s truly a wonderful feeling to see your vision come to reality. I have to say, I was very nervous before the launch. We still have a long way to go, and our team is committed to working very hard to make this the best it can be.

     

    rohit-pothukuchi-2

    How was the experience of being invited to UNESCO headquarters to speak as a panelist at the World Summit on the Information Society Review Committee Meeting?

    It was an incredible honor and one of the greatest experiences of my life. The World Summit on the Information Society meetings took place in 2003 & 2005, and came about after the UN General Assembly approved resolution 56/183 resolving for the need for such a summit. The summits were the major effort of the UN to discuss the global information society, access to the internet, the growing digital divide, communication policy, and other issues, amongst nations of the world. The Summits have lead to the establishment of the Internet Governance Forum, and in a sense have helped develop the global vision ahead for dealing with the internet and technology—Wikipedia has a nice summary.

    The Review Committee Meetings which take place pretty much every year look at the issues and upcoming trends as well as developments after the summits. I spoke at one of these Review committee Meetings. A very senior official at UNESCO learnt about some of my work, and subsequently, I received an invitation to speak. Frankly when I saw the email I couldn’t even believe it. I spoke about e-science trends in India, and about Verdentum a non-profit social network I will be launching in Fall this year, which hopes to connect policy makers with students around the world. A portion of my presentation at UNESCO can be found on the UNESCO web page here.

    More information on Verdentum can be found at www.verdentum.org . I never thought I would be invited to give a talk to an audience that would be simultaneously translated into several languages while I was speaking. I kept looking at the translators—I was absolutely baffled. I was a bit nervous, and one of my personal role models, the former head of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change was in the audience, which made it worse! He was speaking on a related panel. Thankfully, I had very positive responses, and I think the talk was well received. Of course, it was such an amazing experience, and I was very very lucky to have been flown there, put up, and have had this opportunity. Paris is a wonderful city.

     

    How is White & Case different from  top-tier Indian law firms?

    It has been thrilling working with White & Case at three of their offices. The work is some of the best I have seen in any of my internships and experiences–it is truly international, cutting-edge, and exciting. I think there are very few places where, as an intern, you get to help with multi-billion-dollar deals involving 5 or 6 different jurisdictions, and some of the worlds leading corporations, banks, and government bodies. This was especially true at the Abu-Dhabi office, a relatively smaller office, where I had the chance to be involved with the project finance, capital markets, and M&A groups and some of their transactions. Just being able to read through some of the documentation, and having lawyers who care about teaching you the dynamics behind a deal, one can learn so much.

    I thoroughly enjoyed being able to meet and interact with extraordinary, industry-leading lawyers. I never thought I would get to meet some of the lawyers who have truly shaped areas of law, or whom I had read about because of their involvement in prominent deals and transactions. White & Case has an incredibly open culture, most of the doors are open, and even senior associates and partners are really happy to talk about their work, and guide you. I think being in such an environment inspires one to be more involved with his work, and take the extra step. Being at the NY office was an experience in itself, you really cant beat walking into a sky-scraper next to Times Square every morning. I feel incredibly lucky to be joining such a fantastic firm, and to have had these unique experiences. I think the volume of highly international work at White & Case differentiates it from any other firm I know of.

    With that said, the firms I have had the privilege of interning with in India have been outstanding, and I have learned a great deal from being at those firms for even brief periods of time.

     

    Can you give us advice on applications and interviews, especially with foreign law firms?

    I think that it’s important to tailor one’s application specifically for each separate firm or organization. Many students provide relatively similar or generic answers to most applications. Read through the firm’s web site and identify their core values and principles, ask yourself if your application is in line with those; tailor your answers specifically.

    I think it’s also helpful to ask the question “do I fit into this organization?”—take a look at the lawyers there, their careers, and their achievements, I think that reveals a wealth of information about what the firm is looking for, and what you need to do/work-on to be there. Another piece of advice: build relationships. Don’t just expect to apply one day and get a job, continue to intern there, work with lawyers there to genuinely learn more in fields that interest you, do some research if possible, and have a positive attitude in whatever work you are given. I have interviewed with White & Case, a magic-circle law firm in London, and several international companies/ organizations. I would say do some thorough research about the firm and the deals they are involved in. This information is not easily revealed through the firm’s web-site all the time. Sometimes it helps to talk to lawyers at the firm.

    Know how the firm you are interviewing with is different from other law firms. They will usually have an area of law where they are the absolute best, or particular cases where they have distinguished themselves. Be familiar with the firm’s strategy and vision for the future if possible, ask yourself how you fit into that. I learnt that it really pays off to know a bit about the lawyers interviewing you—the major deals and areas they have worked on. These areas could occasionally come up in your interview.

    Know your CV thoroughly; be ready to answer questions about internships, and research that you have worked on. Additionally, be pleasant and be respectful of your interviewers’ time. Another note: It’s ok to say that you don’t know sometimes. You can’t know the answer to everything, and I don’t think you are expected to always know the answer. Additionally, try to stay positive. The application and interview process can be difficult, and everyone gets at least a few rejections (in my case I got many). As much as there are very low points in this process, learning from those experiences and bouncing back with improved applications is important.

     

    How did you go about applying for and getting these foreign internships?

    (Rohit has interned with numerous organizations in 5 different countries such as Oracle in Australia, the California Earthquake Authority, Worley Parsons; in India, AMSS, Tatva Legal, SKS Microfinance, and numerous other places.)

    It was very hard getting internships, especially abroad. I had a lot of difficulty. I was an ordinary law student from India, and I didn’t have any contacts who could help me. I had to work very very hard. You are up against candidates who are better suited, are usually graduate students with more experience (because you study law after an undergraduate degree in the US), etc. When I tried getting an internship abroad during an exchange program at Santa Clara University in my 3rd year I think I got rejection letters from most large law firms with offices in the bay area, and most small law firms I applied to as well. Im pretty certain I had at least 30 to 40 rejection letters in my inbox at some point. A litigation-oriented law firm in San-Francisco’s financial district finally gave me a chance.

    The lawyer who gave me the internship was one of the nations leading plaintiff’s attorneys, and truly an inspiring figure, she guided me with my work and we continue to stay in touch today. I’m very thankful for the chance I was given. For the first time I got the feel of a US litigation environment. I got to do hands on work and be involved with real matters. I have to add—it was so awesome working in a sky-scraper in downtown SF. I worked as hard as I could, I tried to catch up on relevant law. I used to travel about two hours by public transport to SF, early in the morning and two hours to come back go to class, and then study till late in the night. I tried to work on research in different areas I was interested in during my second-third year in NALSAR and I tried to seek the guidance of professionals that were in those fields I was interested in.

    Slowly but steadily my internship opportunities increased, and I was very lucky to get the kinds of opportunities I had. I really wanted to travel and see different work environments around the world, and I was able to get foreign internships that paid me enough that I was able to do that. It is possible, it requires perseverance and hard work. My advice is to work hard, build relationships with people and firms that are focused on areas you are interested in, and be perseverant. I have had several mentors from my internships who over the years have given me incredible guidance. Im thankful for their kindness. I think students should seek out mentors who can give them the right advice. If you have a positive attitude and a willingness to work, I think people will help you. I got so many rejection letters, again and again and again, but I kept at it.

     

    Could you tell us about your current research program at Harvard?

    Headed by Professor David B. Wilkins (Vice Dean for Global Initiatives on the Legal Profession), the Harvard Law School Program on the Legal Profession is a research think-tank which seeks to make a substantial contribution to the modern practice of law by increasing understanding of the structures, norms and dynamics of the global legal profession. As part of it is major, multi-national, multi-diplomacy research on Globalization, Lawyers, and Emerging Economies (GLEE), PLP is actively engaged in examining and understanding the Indian legal profession.

    The GLEE India research team is comprised of scholars from a host of leading universities, research institutions, and law firms in India, the United States, United Kingdom, and Singapore. The GLEE India research team is pursuing the first comprehensive set of studies examining the changes in the Indian corporate legal sector and its effects throughout the legal profession. This includes studying Indian and foreign law firms, in house counsel, legal process outsourcing, trade law capacity and capacity building, senior advocates, legal profession regulation, legal education, the role of gender, small town lawyers, diversity concerns, and pro bono and public interest lawyering.

    Using surveys, interviews, participant observation, and archival research, GLEE’s India research contributes to a richer and more textured understanding of the substantial changes to the corporate sector of the Indian legal profession as well as its relationship to the developments in the legal professions in Brazil, China, and other emerging economies. You can learn more about GLEE – and all of PLP’s research projects – on its website. My current research is focused on citation practices and experiences of lawyers and law students in India, I am currently circulating a survey for my research, the survey can be accessed through this link. I would be thankful to any members of the legal community willing to fill it out. I intend to expand my research to more areas in the future.”

     

    Tell us about your editorial experience and how it has benefited you as a lawyer.

    (During his time at NALSAR Rohit helped establish the ADR Review and Media Law Review, and served as the highest ranking student editor of two journals simultaneously.)

    I have indeed learnt a lot from this process. As far as the future is concerned I can say that our editors who are in charge are working hard and continuously improving the journals. We are looking at the growing importance of the blog, digital formats, and involving more practitioners. We want to make these journals as relevant as possible to a modern Indian audience. Of course it’s tough getting journals off the ground, but getting experts in the relevant fields to write and being perseverant is really important.

     

    How were these teams built and what draws students to write an editorial board test for these two journals?

    (Both journals have a truly impressive board of editors that have included winners of prestigious moots such as VIS, Oxford Media Law, etc., associates at leading law firms abroad and in India.)

    We follow a very different approach at the ADR Review & NMLR when it comes to journal leadership and governance. There is hardly any hierarchy. Our editors stay on for the entire period of time at law school. It’s very difficult to be selected, we have a very small intake, but our editors take their job seriously. We also believe in a holistic approach towards selecting editors. As much as the ed-board test plays an important role, we care about leadership and initiative, and people who care about the journals and the subjects—not just people who want to put things on their CV. We strongly believe that it’s difficult to learn enough about a subject and editing in a 1 year period—which is the time span many journals in India continue to keep their editors. We also encourage editors to creatively be a part of the management process and try to actively improve the journals. We are still pretty young, but I believe we have a bright future ahead. We are planning to initiate a mentorship program for editors of our journals, with alumni editors who have graduated, so they can get guidance early on and have access to more career resources in India and abroad.

     

    How did you manage extracurricular interests with academics?

    (Rohit was a finalist of the Habitat National Geographic Young Visionary Award in your 2nd year, getting through the semi-finals at IIT Chennai.)

    I was pleasantly surprised to have made it through, some of my ideas were climate-change related. I was lucky to be a national finalist. I believe the competition and Award have been discontinued in recent years. I served as the Moot Court Committee Representative to the NALSAR Student Bar Council in my 1st year. I was a bailiff for so many moots, that I never wanted to enter the moot court hall again!

    Well, I guess it’s important to work on what you like. I always did stuff I enjoyed, so it didn’t feel like a lot of work. I had awesome friends through law school. And with some bias I have to say the graduating batch of 2013 is THE best batch NALSAR ever has had and ever will have!! I’ve also gotten to know so many great juniors and seniors. So, spend time with friends. It was a lot of fun taking trips and wasting countless afternoons at local dhabas, driving around the city aimlessly, eating bhajjis on the side of the road, etc. — you need to make time for these kinds of things.

    Also, I would say plan ahead. Just know what you want to do and where you want to be and make schedules (I have to admit I didn’t always do this, but wish I had). You will find that you are hitting your targets and doing what you want to do. Additionally, I tried not to let go of some of my hobbies. I think a lot of people do this, they love to play an instrument or sing, or do something else, and this disappears when they get to law school. Hang on to your passion and continue with it. I tried to continue painting and this really kept me happy. I completed a series of sixteen pieces titled “Shattered Perspectives 1-16”, which are mixed media on paper. I created them for the Disability Law Center at NALSAR, and they are now a permanent installation there. The series of pieces portray the importance of law in piecing together the “shattered perspectives” of society towards persons with disability.

     

    What would be your message to students who wish to pursue a legal career in a top-tier U.S. law firm?

    I don’t think I’ve come far enough in my career to provide this advice. However, I would say: Start thinking about your goals very early on and seek the right guidance. I wish I had done this earlier. As early as the end of 1st year. I think by the time you reach your 3rd year you realize you’ve lost a lot of valuable time that you could have used towards internships, experimenting in different areas of law, figuring out what you like. Do this early on. Talk to seniors and graduates, find the right mentors, and work on what you love. I think that will take you where you need to be.

  • Kartikey Mahajan, LLM Candidate, Harvard, on mooting, practice at the Supreme Court, and plans for the future

    Kartikey Mahajan, LLM Candidate, Harvard, on mooting, practice at the Supreme Court, and plans for the future

    kartikey-m1Kartikey Mahajan graduated from NLU, Jodhpur in 2011. He has been practicing as an Advocate at the Supreme Court of India, after a stint at Luthra & Luthra. Recently he got admitted into an LL.M. programme at Harvard Law School, with a 50% tuition waiver.

    We took this opportunity to ask him about:

    • Being among the Top Five Oralists at the  World Finals of Stetson Environmental Moot Court
    • Practising as an advocate at the Supreme Court of India
    • Pursuing an LL.M from Harvard Law School

     

    How would you like to introduce yourself to our readers?

    I did my schooling from Delhi Public School, Mathura Road, New Delhi. Thereafter I decided to pursue law as a career and joined National Law University, Jodhpur. Law school provided me with a platform to participate in a number of moot court competitions and be a part of different committees in various capacities. Law school also made it possible for me to intern with some of the biggest names in litigation and as well as the biggest law firms of the country. These opportunities exposed me to different facets of law and also helped me develop a deeper understanding of our society. It also exposed me to various sectors of our economic functioning. After law school, I joined the Project Finance team of Luthra&Luthra Law Offices, Delhi that was one of the coveted teams to join in the country for corporate law at that time. At Luthra&Luthra, I worked on high profile transactions as well as did a lot of policy work for Planning Commission of India in terms of drafting model PPP documents. After Luthra&Luthra, I joined the chambers of Additional Solicitor General of India where I worked on government matters before the Delhi High Court and Supreme Court of India. The ASG allowed me to take my own private briefs which also helped me learn a lot about handling the matters without anyone else’s supervision. Now I am leaving for my masters at Harvard Law School this fall and intend to concentrate on litigation and arbitration related subjects during my LL.M.

     

    Did any of your family members motivate you to pursue a legal career?

    Both my father and mother are doctors in New Delhi. My father is in private practice and my mother is with a government hospital. I believe a legal background always helps a lawyer in his early days be it any field of law. Although, I didn’t even remotely have a family member in the legal field, my father always wanted me to become a lawyer.

    In litigation particularly, the benefit of having a legal background becomes more tangible early on, as you can land few clients or have an established office space. However, with respect to any field of law a having a legal family background helps understand the law better, as a person can always take help of his/her family member’s experience to understand the nuances of law. But I am strongly of the opinion that in the long run it’s the individual’s hard work and determination, which helps him. Any person can get those easy breaks when he has a legal background but to sustain it over a long period of time and establish oneself as a reputed lawyer, it is always the competence of that person alone.

     

    How did you manage being an all rounder in school?

    (Kartikey was awarded the Academic Excellence Award Scholarship in school and was also awarded various awards for playing guitar and drums.)

    Well quite frankly I will not call myself an achiever in school. I hardly used to study in school until 9th grade and I was always involved in extra-curricular activities like playing guitar, drums and being part of cricket and basketball teams. It was only during 9th grade that I started paying attention towards studies as the board exams were due next year, therefore my father asked me to pull up my socks. I consequently, started excelling in studies, which helped me secure Academic Excellence Award Scholarship for the next three years. By the time I started concentrating in studies, I had already acquired the skills of playing sports and recreational activities like guitar and drums, which enabled me to continue these activities without spending that much time which one usually requires for learning a skill. So being an all-rounder came quite gradually over a period of time and just required a little bit of time management. It is this time management skill, which I can say that I learnt at school, which is still helping me engage in multiple activities at the same time.

     

    Were your sure about pursuing a career in the legal field from the beginning?

    I was always fascinated with doing something different from my parents. Initially I started preparing for medical entrances in 11th grade and since I really enjoyed science, I used to excel at the exam preparation courses at Akash Institute in Delhi (an Institute which helps you prepare for medical examinations). But like I said I was always fascinated with doing something different from my parents, which always made me think about exploring different options and law was certainly one of the options which I had in mind. Then in the beginning of 12th grade my school organised a mock moot court for the students and I participated in the same as a speaker. It was during the preparation of that competition that I realized the thrill and excitement associated with the field of law and I knew that a career in law was right for me.

     

    Tell us in detail about your time at NLU–J.

    During law school, I participated in a number of moot court competitions like Vis East, Stetson Environmental Moot, Henry Durant and ICC Trial. Mooting was one activity, which I extremely liked during law school and I always wanted to perform better every time I participated in a moot. Besides mooting, I published a number of articles in leading national and international journals and as well as periodicals. Whenever, I got time, I also played basketball and cricket to unwind.

     

    What skills did you acquire while serving various committees at NLUJ?

    I was fortunate enough to be selected in a number of student committees by the faculty at NLUJ for various important positions. All these roles and positions helped me grow as a professional and as well as an individual. This is because working in any committee always involves coordinating and organising important events. This makes you more patient while dealing with your peers and as well as the University staff and outside organisations. Working for events also enables you to handle pressure without taking too much stress. This is true of every committee whether be is Sports, Cultural, Academic Support, Moot Court etc.

    Well I think my fondest memories of working in any student committee were during my fourth year when I was the Secretary of Legal Aid Committee. During the short stint of one year we organised numerous awareness camps on legal issues in nearby villages of Jodhpur. Rajasthan as you would know is a very conservative state, which has practices of dowry, female foeticide etc. prevalent almost in every part of the state. Before my stint at the committee, I always saw those problems from only an academic point of view. My involvement with the committee was the first time that I saw these sensitive issues up close.  These events certainly had a lasting impact on me and really helped me while dealing with the pro-bono cases at the Delhi High Court Legal Services Committee. I would say that I really absorbed a lot of practical nuances when it comes to common societal problems during my stint at the Legal Aid Committee which made me more sensitive towards these issues of dowry death, child rape etc.

     

    What difference did you find in the Indian and the world rounds?

    (Kartikey was awarded the Fifth Best Oralist Prize at World Finals of Stetson Environmental Moot Court Competition and also the third best oralist at Northern Rounds of Stetson International Environmental Moot Court Competition.)

    There is a marked level of difference in the judging standards of Indian and world rounds. While at the Indian rounds you will routinely find judges who are alumni of the law schools who tend to grill you on the legal points. So they basically tend to give marks based on your legal knowledge. I have been a judge in few competitions like Jessup, Stetson etc. post law school and I have noticed this tendency amongst the Indian judges to mark the students on the basis of their legal knowledge. Basically if you are good in legal knowledge then mostly you will get higher marks in other sections of the scoring sheet like style, etiquette etc. However, in the international rounds of any competition, the emphasis is mostly on the speaker’s speaking style and his ability to answer the questions with poise and clarity. While legal knowledge is relevant during international rounds, but other sections become equally important.

    Well during the World Finals of Stetson, my team members who were in the Indian rounds could not manage to come with me to Florida due to Visa and Financial issues. So ten days before leaving for the World Finals, I had to speak to the national and international organisational members of the competition to amend their rules and allow me to induct a new member from the University who had a valid US Visa. When the permission was granted, I managed to induct a new partner (Rashi Ahooja) for the World Rounds and she prepared everything in just five days and managed to secure the 6th Best Speaker at the World Finals. The entire period after the Indian rounds until the culmination of the World Finals was an exciting period which involved a lot of challenges and made me learn a lot of things like acting under pressure and petitioning the organisations to amend their rules.

     

    Can you give three essential tips to our readers who wish to ace the oral rounds of an international moot?

    The First tip would be to know your proposition, memorials and the relevant legal issues thoroughly. You cannot not know the above things. A person should equally devote a substantial amount of tine writing down the structure of his arguments and rehearsing them until you master them. In any moot court, a judge would try to deviate you from your structure but a good mooter would always come back to his structure of arguments after answering the judge’s question. Lastly, always remember to speak slowly when it comes to arguing before international judges, as Indian accent tends to be really fast which the judges may not understand. I essentially followed all the above rules while preparing for any round.

     

    What kind of internships did you do in your law school?

    During law school, I managed to intern at many different places like law firms, counsels, consultancy firms and corporate organisations. This helped me get exposure to different realms of law and different work environments.

    There used to be institutional support for procurement of internships at law school from third year onwards. However, I always managed to secure an internship for myself without relying on the Placement and Internship Cell.

     

    Did you plan out the course of your internships?

    I did plan out my internships as initially I interned with counsels to try and understand the basic fields of law like contracts, constitution and procedure statutes including arbitration. Then from third year onwards I interned in law and consultancy firms to get an experience of corporate laws.

    I think it is extremely important for a law student to plan the course of his internships as certain internships like a corporate law related internship can be understood better only when one has read and worked on contract law related issues. So basically doing a corporate law internship in the beginning of second year will not make much sense for a law student. Also, if a person is thinking of applying for LL.M, then he must undertake internships, which will help him show his focus towards the field of law that he wishes to pursue in LL.M.

     

    Can you give us a few tips to ace the art of paper writing?

    Well there is no tip for writing a paper as such. One just needs to start writing and the person becomes better with time. What I would say is that a person should always pick up a novel topic to write, as there is no point writing on something on which already a lot has been written. I have always picked up topics on which I can add to the scholarship of the subject by highlighting my own original viewpoints.

     

    Tell us how has moot court participations and paper publishing helped you in acquiring skills that are important for a successful legal career?

    They certainly have. Moot courts made me develop the requisite confidence to appear before a judge in litigation. Although many would say that moots are not at all like a real case, to which I would agree as well, but moots give you a style of presentation and help you being thorough. I am so used to appearing in Court without looking much into my file as I acquired this habit while preparing for moot courts. I have also handled an international arbitration in Singapore and I must say that my mooting experience at Vis moot was extremely relevant for that arbitration interms of my presentation style. Legal writing although did not seem to have contributed to my drafting skills, but it helped me develop thought process and delve deeper into certain legal issues.

     

    How did you manage your academics, curricular and co-curricular activities?

    Well… I was always interested in basketball and cricket, but it was mostly in my first and the last year that I played these sports on a regular basis.

    Like I said before, time management came naturally to me from school itself and it was never hard to manage all these activities at law school.

     

    Tell us about your experience at Luthra&Luthra?

    I was offered a job at Luthra&Luthra through campus placement. The experience was very interesting as I got to work in one of the most exciting teams in the country for Project Finance. I worked on few huge transactions, which helped me realise the need of a lawyer to pay attention to detail. Also, the experience helped me read very long documents in lesser time and improve my drafting skills by the end of my stint at Luthra&Luthra.

     

    Why did you switch from a corporate job to a job of a practicing lawyer?

    (After working in a law firm Kartikey started working as a practicing advocate under Mr. Rajeev Mehra, Additional Solicitor General of India.)

    I switched because I always wanted to pursue litigation and arbitration and argue before the courts. I started with Luthra&Luthra because I wanted to save some money to help me tide over the initial years of litigation and at the same time become familiar with commercial documents.

    The initial major challenge was to remain physically standing by the end of the day. Litigation unlike corporate work, involves a lot of running around the courts and even outside the court to conduct client meetings etc., so after working in a corporate firm one looses touch at being that physically active. Then obviously making new clients is always challenging in litigation as clients usually don’t place confidence in young lawyers to handle their cases. I must say that everyday in litigation is a challenge, which comes with its own set of thrills and excitement. You never know what problem can crop up like a small mistake in filing because of which the registry doesn’t put up your matter, like managing multiple courts on the same day, tackling judges on their bad mood days etc. So basically the uncertainties increase in litigation manifold and it was basically understanding that these uncertainties were very much possible on an everyday basis was the initial challenge.

     

    Tell us about your work at Supreme Court of India.

    I have majorly handled cases at the High Court and then at the Supreme Court. This is because I was associated with the chambers of Additional Solicitor General of India. The government work is really interesting and at the same time very time consuming not allowing you to find enough time for your private matters. So basically I used to handle atleast 8-10 matters a day for the ASG, which also sometimes turned out to be 15-20 matters per day. Obviously not all of them came up for arguments, many had just small applications or asking times for filing rejoinders/counters etc., many had adjournment motions or many required usage of court craft to ensure that the matter was passed over or put at the end of the board so that it can be rolled over to the next day. But what all these matters put together tested was the organisation and coordination abilities of the juniors as we had to coordinate with the government departments and as well as the Standing Counsels for their instructions. Many a times a 500 to 1000 page brief used to arrive in the office at 9 pm with instructions to appear next morning (We all know how disorganised and lethargic government departments can be). So this helped me read the files faster and understand what the relevant points can be in a short span of time. Whenever I used to have a private brief, then I had to face the additional problem of managing my workload.

     

    Why did you choose Harvard Law School?

    (Kartikey was awarded Jagdish Bhagwati Fellowship (Columbia Law School) Willams Papsworth Studentship (University of Cambridge) Graduate Dean Award (New York University School of Law), all of he declined to pursue an LL.M at Harvard Law School.)

    All these scholarship applications are basically included in the application procedure for the LL.M Programme. Cambridge had a separate scholarship question in which you basically had to state your reasons for applying for a scholarship. NYU had a question on describing a legal issue facing a country or the world and proposing solutions to address the same. As far as Columbia was concerned, it did not have any separate question.

    Harvard has also offered me a tuition waiver of almost 50%, its just that its not a named scholarship like that of Columbia, Cambridge or NYU. I chose Harvard primarily because it has the best faculty for the courses that I am interested in, like Constitutional Law and Policy. Also, candidly speaking, I intend to return to India post LL.M to continue pursuing dispute resolution for which a Harvard LL.M offers intangible benefits over the other LL.M programs.

     

    What are the necessary traits required to bag a scholarship?

    I think it’s not only about law school but your overall profile. Curiously, I am still not sure as to what did the admissions committee like about me at every college that I got so many scholarships. I think this question is best suited for admission officers to handle.

    But I would like to say that if I have to think of some factors which would have helped me then I would say a good rank at law school (top 2% is a must), international awards at moots, international publications and both government and corporate work experience would be the factors which could have probably helped. But like I said before, I am not even myself sure to give two cents about this.

     

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    Tell us what motivated you to go for a master’s programme?

    I always harboured a desire to do an LL.M since law school. Its just that I didn’t know what I wanted to study during an LL.M. So that’s why I think that work experience is really important for most people as they get better clarity interms of what they want to study and how they want to utilize their time at LL.M which is just for 9 months.

    The reason why I didn’t opt for an LL.M at Indian University is because I have already studied at one of the best law schools of the country and I didn’t think that pursuing an LL.M at another good Indian law school would enhance my skill set or knowledge base. I think an international LL.M programme always helps you develop different perspectives about a particular legal topic as there is a presence of diverse viewpoints of people from around the world. Additionally, studying your interest areas from the best professors of the world and not that of one country, obviously helps you delve deeper into that subject area.

     

    What is your area of study at Harvard?

    I intend on pursuing Constitutional Law, Negotiations, Civil Procedure, International Commercial Arbitration and other litigation related courses. I also intend to get involved with trial workshops/clinics and learn the American way of litigating.

    From what I have heard from my friends who are Harvard alumni, I think the educational culture at HLS is really intense and demands a lot of time. This is chiefly because of the Socratic method of teaching which is followed at all US Law schools that involves a lot of reading up before coming to class and the class itself involves only discussion with the professor. Lets not discount the fact that a classroom at Harvard would be filled with some of the brightest minds so you can obviously expect a lot of cross-exchange of indepth analysis of legal issues. I think that’s where the fun lies.

     

    What are your plans after LL.M.?

    I intend to continue with my Litigation and arbitration practice. As far as a job in corporate sector is concerned, that is definitely not cut out for me. Although, I certainly love corporate laws and I intend on continue doing commercial litigation.

     

    Lastly, what would be your message to our readers?

    I don’t think I am in a position to offer any advice or a guiding principles to anyone at this time. However, I have always tried to follow what my father used to tell me since I was a child which was that one should pursue whatever he or she feels like. There is no set career path for anyone whether be it litigation, law firms or corporate organisations or NGO’s etc. If one really likes whatever he does, he will never get bored of it. People should ask whether they are willing to get up every day and do that kind of work that they are doing. If not then Quit! If yes then I feel possibilities are limitless.