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  • Priyadarshini Natarajan, Principal Associate, HSB Partners, on Corporate Law Practice, Law School days, and the Company Secretaries’ Course

    Priyadarshini Natarajan, Principal Associate, HSB Partners, on Corporate Law Practice, Law School days, and the Company Secretaries’ Course

    Priyadarshini Natarajan graduated from ILS College, Pune in the year 2007. She has also completed a Company Secretary Course from the Institute of Company Secretaries of India. She is currently Principal Associate at HSB Partners, Chennai and heads its General Corporate Commercial, Mergers & Acquisitions & General Corporate Litigation. She has over nine years of work experience in these domains.

    In this interview she talks to us about-

    • Her legal education at ILS College, Pune;
    • How to make the best use of internships ;
    • Her experience at HSB Partners
    • The importance a CS Course in a corporate lawyers life and
    • How to make career decisions while at law school.

     

    How would you introduce yourself to our readers?

    I am an enthusiastic person with a thirst for new experiences in life.

     

    You completed your legal education at ILS Law College, Pune. Tell us about your college experience and how it helped shape you professionally.

    ILS and Pune city were one of the many good things that happened in my life. Having studied and lived in a cocooned home environment in Chennai all through my school years, it was indeed refreshing and an amazing experience to be in the ‘student city’. ILS has an amazing campus, some really good lecturers in the faculty, a fine library, a reading room, huge classrooms, an enormous ground and a hill behind the college where one could go trekking! We had students from different parts of India and abroad and it is wonderful that we are still connected. I had lovely friends who would generously lend me their notes to study, and inspire and support me in all endeavors. The students always had so many ideas, and took many initiatives in both law related workshops as well as extra curricular activities. The college arranges for many guest lectures, diplomas, workshops, moot courts, international certificate programs and has a very good placement cell.

     

    Did you do extra curricular activities, and if so, how important were they?

    I love new experiences and during college it was the time to experiment with different things each year. I played with the college women’s cricket team, was part of Human Rights Cell in and did a few diploma courses on subjects such as Cyber Laws, Geopolitics and International Relations, and Corporate Laws. I spent three years trying my hand at guitar at the Institute of Modern Music.  I believe that extra-curricular activities  overall development, expand one’s circle, provide opportunities to meet various people and helps one have an open mind. I recollect that once I complained that I did not have enough time to practice playing the guitar every day, to which my guitar tutor, Mr. Shital Kulkarni, retorted “you mean to say you do not have 15 minutes in one whole day to practice?” I was dumbstruck and realised discipline and practice are not that hard and one just needs to make time for it. That voice still echoes in my head. What we learn in one sphere always helps us in other spheres of life.

    You are also a Company Secretary. How helpful is the fact that you are a Company Secretary, in the legal context?

    I pursued CS after I graduated and started practicing. I wanted to do something apart from work and therefore enrolled to do CS. I am always first a lawyer, then a qualified Company Secretary. Therefore, my priority was my law practice and I studied for CS exams only during free time, and I must say I passed CS mostly with the practical knowledge from work. CS does compliment corporate law practice, including due diligence assignments, provided that one is updated on the corporate compliances as much as one is updated on changes in the law.

     

    What should legal students aspiring to pursue CS course keep in mind whilst preparing for the same? Would you recommend pursuing a CS course during law school or after, and why?

    It really is a personal choice whether to pursue it during law school or after. Personally, I was able to appreciate the course better due to the practical knowledge from work assignments. If one is considering practicing corporate law, then one could consider pursuing it during law school as it gives an insight into the subjects and help in making a decision. However, one must keep in mind that a graduate is eligible for an exemption from taking the foundation exams and therefore could directly progress to the executive program of CS and thereafter the professional/final program. Whether one chooses to pursue it during or after law school, I would recommend going for private tuitions or the ICSI classes so that one can interact with other students and practicing Company Secretaries to get an insight regarding the options as well as to discuss the subject.

     

    Tell us about the internships you did whilst at law school. What is the most important quality of a good intern?

    We had two months off in a year, one in May and one in December, both being court vacation periods. During my first year of college, I had interned with Dr. Suresh, Mrs. Nagasaila, Mrs. Sudha Ramalingam who were also involved with PUCL, Chennai. I remember Dr. Suresh vehemently opposing the other side’s advocate (a public prosecutor) in vacation court and then came out of the court and shook hands with him. Dr. Suresh, whom I have great respect for, winked at me and said “no permanent enemies and no permanent friends”. All the three advocates as well as the other advocates I met there were not only intelligent, hardworking and inspiring but such amazing, distinct individuals. I was asked to be part of a client meeting, where a lady had come in for filing a case for rape. After the client meeting, the advocate told me the difference between facts and allegations and mentioned how the client (a rape victim) was contradicting her own statements. It does not mean that one ought to doubt the client but I learnt that while the client is giving the pieces of information, I must assimilate it quickly and have the script ready, be it drafting an agreement or filing a litigation. Another interesting person I met was Mr. Jose John, when I interned with King and Patridge, who is so hard working and humble. Other places I have interned are Menon and Gokulaney and Kini and Company. Mr. Ashok Menon and Mr. Harshad Gokulaney have also interacted with me and given some great advice. During internships, it is a stroke of luck to get the so called ‘interesting’ work in the one month period, especially during court vacations. However, there is something to learn from every work assigned to you. I had some exposure to research work, drafting of notices, watching vacation court proceedings, and reading of case bundles. If I speak of one value addition that stands out, it is the very interaction with such amazing lawyers who could give me an insight regarding work life after college, career path, choices to make, and taught me how to focus on the case without getting emotionally tangled in the client’s problems.

    I think the most important quality of an intern is to have an open mind! It is also important to spend quality time and a minimum of 4 weeks in one firm/ under a lawyer as opposed to trying to squeeze in a great number of internships. Honor those hours you get to spend in the office. Keep reading books/laws/magazines if you have not been assigned any work for the day/hour. Don’t hesitate to introduce yourself to the advocates and ask them for work!

    How important are internships for shaping a young legal mind and preparing him/her for the real world?

    I have had the opportunity to interact with many interns, some of them who have amazing confidence and clarity regarding their future career. In that sense I believe that many students are already quite conscious of the ‘real world’. As an intern, the assignment given tends to be etched in their memory for a long time to come. A small task such as numbering pages in a typed set, looking for acknowledgement cards, taking a dictation, doing research, or looking for a phone number of a governmental authority would come in handy when you graduate and start practicing. Try maintaining a log of each day’s assignments in all internships. It helps in self assessment, planning a future and most of all, makes an interesting read with a smile on the face when you finish 6 months or 1 year of practice post graduation!

     

    You work in HSB Partners, Chennai. Tell us about your experience working at this firm. What are the areas of law that you practice?

    I have been working with HSB Partners for nearly 9.5 years and it has been a wonderful experience with loads of opportunities. My primary areas of practice are corporate litigation, corporate transactions/ advisory and commercial agreements. The firm has a young vibrant crowd and amazing colleagues, both in the past and the present, who have been helpful and inspirational. The partners are not only approachable but are also very receptive to opinions of even the junior-most person, provided it is backed with law/reasoning. That helps in building confidence and the freedom to think independently and provide solutions. Each of the partners is very inspiring to work with and their enthusiasm and eagerness to learn makes one even more interested in the subject. For instance, I was one of those kids who did not like Labour Laws when I was in college. During my first month of work, I recollect that Mr. T.K. Bhaskar (the partner I work with) explaining an assignment to me that got me interested in this subject, which I thought I loathed. Anyone who walks into his room learns something new. In fact, when I was a fresher in the office, every single day I went back home having learnt something new. I used to feel so happy about being a better lawyer than the previous day. This remains true till date. I have learnt a lot from working closely with many esteemed senior counsels as well as a wide variety of clients. I have been fortunate to get the opportunities and mentorship that I have received, which has shaped me to the half way decent lawyer I am today.

     

    Did you always know that you wished to practice Corporate Law? If not, how did you make the decision to make Corporate Laws your career – what were the factors you took into consideration whilst picking a suitable area of law with a professional point of view.

    When I joined law school, my area of interest in law was Criminal Law and Human Rights. In fact till date, one thing that I want to do is to work for child development, child rights and work against child sexual abuse, though I get to do that only part time. I developed an interest and decided to pursue Corporate Laws after I completed a Diploma in Business and Corporate Laws. Though I never did an internship in this area,  I decided to start my practice in the area of Corporate Law considering my limited exposure during my other litigation internships vis-à-vis my skills, strenghts and suddenly developed an interest.

     

    What is the basis of recruitment at HSB? What do interested applicants need to keep in mind when applying to HSB?

    The usual- qualifications, past internship/work experiences, aptitude to work hard, sincerity, clarity in thinking, team spirit, achievements and extra-curricular activities. In addition, you must shed the attitude that you are a trainee and walk in as a lawyer.

     

    What is the most notable improvement from the erstwhile Companies Act, 1956 to the current Companies Act, 2013?

    Some of the notable changes are the introduction of the  concept of One Person Company, increasing the number of members of a private company, introducing the definition and duties of an independent director, making it mandatory to have a woman director in listed companies and certain public companies, introducing the concept of corporate social responsibility (CSR) and casting it as a duty of a director to follow provisions regarding CSR, the concept of Key Managerial Personnel, et al. One of the most important changes is the introduction of National Company Law Tribunal (NCLT) in the place of erstwhile Company Law Board and shifting of all the company matters from High Courts, including matters related to reduction of share capital, schemes/amalgamation, and winding up – to the jurisdiction of NCLT and introduction of the appellate tribunal – National Company Law Appellate Tribunal (NCLAT).

     

    What are the factors law students need to take into account while making substantial career decisions?

    Most important aspects that would aid in decision making are your interest, your passion, your strength, and your own dreams/goals. Pick something that you like doing. Some of you may not have the clarity as to which area of practice to choose and it may happen that some of you may not be able to find an opportunity to do work in the area that you desire. In both cases, keep your eyes open for opportunities and your ears open for any advice people have to give. If you fall in the former category, read a lot, try discussing with some advocates you have interned with, or batch mates, and try building a good network. Don’t hesitate to ask for help as you may never know from which quarter you may receive it.. If after all this you still do not know which area of law you want to practice in or if you want to be an in-house counsel, do not fret and just go with the flow. Having a good mentor and practicing a particular thing long enough with dedication and sincerity, would slowly make you an expert in a subject and in turn that will bring you success. If you fall in the second category, grab whichever opportunity you get and do your best. What is more important is to be focussed and do your best wherever you are. However, make sure to have your dream/passion/goals in the back of your mind. For example, if you want to specialise in Cyber Law and you end up in Civil/Corporate Laws, pursue your career in the opportunities you have. Optimise on the resources at hand and keep updating yourself with Cyber Laws. There will definitely be a window of opportunity and a break through. Believe in yourself, work hard, fight against all odds and follow your dream.

     

    What advice would you give current law students?

    Be passionate about what you do. It is a service industry and whichever area of law you choose, understand that you are dealing with and protecting someone’s rights. Anything you do or not do in a case/transaction could make a difference in that client’s life. So, strive to make a good difference. That apart, bear in mind that to understand if an area of law interests you, you must give it time. Patience, hardwork, consistency, sincerity and honesty may sound “cliché” but are the good old principles that will make you successful. Accept whatever work that comes your way and do your best. Be open minded and receptive to changes! All the best!

  • Samar Inam Khan, Matrimonial lawyer, Divorce Mediator and Arbitrator, on establishing Legal Experts India

    Samar Inam Khan, Matrimonial lawyer, Divorce Mediator and Arbitrator, on establishing Legal Experts India

    Samar Inam Khan graduated from Jamia Millia Islamia in 2003. At present, he is a Matrimonial Lawyer, divorce mediator, Arbitrator and a Criminal and Civil Lawyer as well. He is also a chairman of his own founded Law Firm which is still Sole Proprietorship Firm namely Legal Experts India.

     

    In this interview he talks to us about:

    • His law school experience.
    • Why he chose matrimonial matters.
    • His own law firm- Legal Experts India.
    • Most challenging part of being a chairman at his own founded law firm.

     

    How would you like to introduce yourself to our readers?

    I am a Matrimonial Lawyer, divorce mediator, Arbitrator and having Criminal and Civil Lawyer as well, touched almost all spheres of law including IPR, thoroughly saw how law manipulated by lawyers and also saw how judges do injustice in many cases.

    Judges sometimes do not recognize law and misses or try to miss the citations and give relief to the party who do not deserve to get such relief, these things usually happens in lower courts and when the other person goes for higher court by way of appeal or revision, they get actually justice.

    In many cases party lose faith in judicial system which in my own opinion, citizen of India believe in.

    What motivated you to gravitate towards law? If not law, what other options would you have considered for your career?

    Law is always my first choice and I never been gravitated because it is such a procedure in which I believe citizen will actually get justice.

    If I was not a Lawyer I chose to be a real Journalist.

     

    Tell us about your law school experience. Share some highlights from your college days that shaped you as a lawyer.

    I graduated Law from Jamia Millia Islamia, the experience was wonderful but what I saw or experienced was there was a split; politics was something attracted by many students because of faculty, the senior faculty member were not into any split hence there was three major splits, one and other against each other and the third one was neutral.

    These things made students more mature so that as and when they entered into practice, they knew they will face similar approach within the court between the lawyers, and exactly the same happened, many of pass outs after few years left and joined some corporates as their representatives, only few left who had patience. Patience is the most important tool to get into practice.

     

    Why did you choose matrimonial matters? What motivated you to choose that?

    Marriages are broken, love birds get married and after love and affection in three- four months, expectations increases, the result of which one or the other partner gets frustrated, which causes disturbances, fights between families starts, It is the emotional and the physical needs of a man and a woman that bring them into a relationship which then culminates in a marriage. In days gone by, couples were more tolerant of each other and let go many matters to save their marriage because it was unacceptable for a marriage to breakup.

    Physical and/or mental abuse: This is one of the major factors which finally bring about a breakup of a marriage. This is caused by the sadistic attitude of one of the partners which was kept covered up before a marriage. The spouse who gets the brunt of it, is kept under control, and is intimidated and manipulated. There is less chance for such a relationship to continue for long.

    Attraction towards another of the opposite gender: This happens because of one spouse does not give time enough for his/her partner. Communication gap, in words or physically, may develop between the two which, as it widens, paves the way for attraction of one spouse/partner towards another person of the opposite gender.

    Cheating and Infidelity: When a spouse begins to get attracted towards an unmarried person or one who is married, intimate relationships between the two develop and deepen and if the developing intimacy is not noticed by any one, it may end up in infidelity. This may go one for a long time till it is discovered causing devastation to the marriage/s and breakups.

    Constant humiliation before others: One spouse/partner may be less empathetic than the other; they have no inhibitions in speaking ill of their partner/spouse before other people. The targeted spouse is always made to feel that s/he is ‘good for nothing’; there is no regard for his/her dignity and sentiments. This is because of the selfish attitude of the targeting spouse who shows off to people that life of the two together would never be as good as it is at present without her/him. The suffering partner is invariably made to feel inferior. S/he may even have to undergo humiliation by his/her spouse before others about his/her inability to bear children.

    Constant nagging: This is again an attitude of a partner/spouse to keep the other at his/her beck-and-call. The targeted partner has to bear up with the other partner’s constant fault-finding, complaints, scolding, criticisms and frequent sarcastic remarks. There is no concern for the feelings or the respect of the partner. The tendency to nag is more common with women than with men. This is done in an effort to adjust their partner to their standards of living. When the targeted partner does things to please his/her partner, s/he comes up with new ‘points of improvements’. The suffering partner may tolerate it for a long or a short time but the breakup is inevitable.

    Repeated comparison of one’s partner with another man or woman: One partner may constantly compare his/her spouse/partner with others simply belittling them, trying to tell them that their lifestyle is not of a calibre which s/he desires. The targeted spouse/partner generally ends up developing an inferiority complex; s/he tries to match up to the standards of their partner to maintain peace and keep the relationship/marriage intact but it is of little use and it ends up in a breakup.

    These things causes break-up between the couple, as and when any family intrude in a matrimonial life, things will go away, and causes number of litigations, fake allegations which actually crafted and drafted by a lawyer, many of lawyers only works for their greed to earn more fee/income.

    I first try to resolve the issues between the couple, if fails, try to let the couple go for pre-litigation before trained mediator, if that fails, only then I try to get things go as it should.

    There are number of fake cases registered under section 498-A, wives try to conceal their income in PWDV Act and 125 Cr.P.C cases, such things actually motivated me to be a matrimonial expert to get the truth before the Court.

     

    What skills and qualities do you think have helped you achieve your current position and stature?

    Hard work, Patience, mediation, preparing cases at my own/self-drafting, being a good listener, Sharp memory, making arguments at my own, self-reliant, self-dependent, creating like-minded team and team work.

     

    Please tell us something about your own law firm- Legal Experts India.

    Legal Experts India was started by me as Sole-Proprietor in 2004, where I was alone in the said year, I took the risk of not getting any penny, thereafter I connected with few corporates for Arbitration, I myself designated as Sole- Arbitrator, and then the firm started working, now we have litigants, Arbitrators, IPR specialists lawyers at different parts of the country on Panel basis, at New Delhi itself we have Six Associates and we have base at Uttar Pradesh and Uttarakhand as well.

    Legal Experts India is at glooming stage and now we are expanding at faster pace.

     

    What falls within the scope of your responsibility? Tell us about a typical work day.

    I as Chairman of the firm designate my associates what matters he/she should engaged into, I myself argue in the cases, be it any case, I try to boost up my interns and new associates, I try to gauge their mind-set what they actually wants to do, I let my juniors be free of any stress and call them associate only, I never let them call me Sir, I ask them to call me by my name only, so to feel easy.

    My typical work day is to reach court directly, ask associates whether they are prepared for the case, if not I myself appear before the court because I usually get myself prepared a night before, guide them what to do, then in chamber I starts drafting and checking out citations, same I direct to my associates to do, in the end of day I check all files, get prepared myself for other day and then tell my associates in which case and court they are required to appear.

    I do not try my associates to have so much stress; we at Legal Experts India leave office by 5 Pm so my associates also have social life as well.

     

    What is the most challenging or stressful part of being a chairman at your own founded law firm?

    The most challenging one was the start-up, I started it without having too much knowledge of all the spheres of law, I stood against few very senior lawyers those days, but courage and patience wins the game.

    Thereafter choosing the right associates was another challenge and I chose only few, but those days were as stressful as I was apprehended if I chose the right ones or not.

     

    What do law firms in India look for in potential candidates? What must a law student do to get hired in a top-tier law firm?

    Be it top-tier or mediocre, to get into a law firm students need to read about the law firm a day or two before, what they actually wants, and be just on topics,  student should show curiosity to join and work without any time boundations, students should also know whether their work will be admired, they must not expect too much salary in start.

    At the time of interview be just and proper, wear formal cloths, and never show from which background they are, at the time of interview they should have eye to eye contact, and never approach indirectly.

    What should be your parting message to our readers?

    Struggle is not just word, it speaks and its sounds louder, a Legal Practitioner practicing for more than 5 years and not earning too much, never underestimate him, he is having much more knowledge to gauge and perform.

    As and when he starts earning good the people around who underestimated him will only watch, and he will not turn back to them.

    In short never underestimate a practicing lawyer.

     

     

  • Rahul Phukan, Legal Director/Head Director of Legal-Real Estate, on his achievements and experiences from a graduate to director

    Rahul Phukan, Legal Director/Head Director of Legal-Real Estate, on his achievements and experiences from a graduate to director

    Rahul Phukan graduated from University Law College, Bangalore University (2000-2005). At present, he is leading legal real estate (Legal Director/Head of Legal-Real Estate) and expanding stores across in India and other countries in South Asia and managing a team of experienced lawyers based on regional offices in India for the purpose of procuring, development, opening and operation of stores in India.

     

    In this interview he talks to us about:

    • His experience at internships.
    • His career graph.
    • Qualities that helped him to become the head of legal-real estate.
    • Changes in life after becoming the head of legal-real estate.

     

    How did you choose law? Did you always know that this was what you wanted to do?

    I made up my mind to pursue law pretty early in life- may be around standard eight in school. There were certainly influences in my formative years from the family. The tales of my great grandfather being a pioneer in the field of law and one of the first Indian district court judge in north-east of India (Larger Assam State including East Bengal under British). There were lawyers in the next generation who were also academicians and experts. The generation after had my uncle who was a Supreme Court judge with whom I had spent quite a bit of time- I think enough time to get influenced and convinced! I remember, the family house in Jorhat, Assam, had a library- though I didn’t read much from there but just glancing through the books perhaps also left a mark and fascinated me. Having said that, no one in the family ever told me that I should pursue law, I think the influences were strong enough to shape my decision which my parents definitely appreciated and supported.

    Adding to that, though I knew I would do law for sure, but what would I specialise in was something I was not sure of. But I still pursued it with an intention that I will explore and find my area of interest.

     

    Tell us something about your college life. Which activities did you participate in? How did you go about developing expertise and knowledge in your areas of interest?

    I am a proud alumni of University Law College,Bangalore. At college we had the liberty to participate in various moot court competitions which I thought was a great way to develop research and analytical skills. I also made it a point that I interned with various lawyers and law firms. I started my internship right from the second year in college. I was fortunate to have the opportunity to spend time with a leading national law firm after college each day. When I look back I realise that the internships which I did gave me a very practical overview of the legal field and by working on various subjects, I could actually test the water and decide what I wanted to do on a long term basis. Besides this, I also made it a point to visit courts every now and then and witness the working of the judiciary. I feel this is important no matter which field of law one chooses -at least to have some knowledge of the courts! As a student, one gets  extremely inclined to certain subjects like IPR, Corporate Laws, Human Rights, etc. but it is the practical experience which helps one to decide where one’s interest lies and sometimes also to discover that the interest is actually on a totally different subject.

    Apart from the extra- curricular activities, interaction with my teachers in class, discussion with peers and seniors in college were something which really helped me understand the legal field better and understand the practicalities. Academically, as a student I was one of the top five rank holders in the University.

    While it is important to enhance expertise and knowledge, it is equally important to have a life beyond college, internships and extra-curricular activities. I continued doing what I always enjoyed doing i.e. play tennis and cricket, read books and listen to music and attend various concerts and events. The idea was to have the right balance of academics and life in general- making both enjoyable!

     

    Many lawyers say that the first year after graduation is the most difficult year for young lawyers. How was your first year after graduation?

    Yes, I agree for many the first year after graduation is a difficult year. There are numerous colleges in India where in the final year there is no campus placement if one has to opt to work for the corporate world or a renowned law firm.

    For me there was a period of dilemma right around the time I was about to complete my law graduation and few months after. I was unsure on the course of action I should take, though I was certain that I had to work for a corporate eventually. I quickly learnt that to excel in any role I take up, it was important to understand and acquire practical knowledge in the field I like- so as to become an expert in that field. This is when I started applying for law firms as I thought that to learn or experience all verticals of law there is no better place than a law firm. I am glad I was retained by Fox Mandal & Associates as a trainee and for the exposure I got to various aspects of laws – which most certainly helped me shape my career!

     

    What kind of internships did you do while you were a student? Any remarkable experiences during your internships that shaped your career choices later?

    I must tell you that internships are as important as academics. The more internships or time you spend observing the legal fraternity, the easier it is to make career choices. It is like a discovery trip!

    Right from the second year of college, I made it a point to do formal internships or just spend time every day with law firms or at an advocate’s chamber. My internships were mainly on corporate law practices including FDI, corporate compliance-labour laws and IPR. It involved civil litigation and real estate transactions. While interning with a law firm in Bangalore, I got the first taste of working on the real estate domain which I started to enjoy. What was fascinating for me was that the domain had variety of challenges on a day-to-day level. The number of legislations one is going through for any real estate transaction could vary with the location, ownership, etc. and each real estate project had its own uniqueness and set of challenges- I was intrigued!

     

    You have a lot of work experience, from working at a vast array of places. Can you tell us a little about your career graph up to this point?

    After college in 2005, I started as a Trainee at Fox Mandal & Associates in Bangalore. Fox Mandal as you may be aware is a full service law firm and hence as a trainee I was fortunate to work on the job with all verticals in the firm which was very intense and a great learning experience. During this time, I interacted a lot with various partners and industry experts to learn more and more about each work-stream practically.

    I continued as an Associate at Fox Mandal Bangalore and joined the real estate and infrastructure team. In the year 2009, I was promoted as a Senior Associate and subsequently, in the year 2010, I was escalated as the Group Head of the Real Estate and Infrastructure Wing at Fox Mandal & Associates, Bangalore. During the course of my retainer-ship with Fox Mandal, I was handling matters relating to real estate and property and had worked with various developers, Indian and international corporate/companies, financial institutions, property management groups/consultants, foreign state government/bodies. The matters mostly involved entry level strategy planning, due diligence, joint ventures, M&A, joint development, project construction and development, facility/built-to-suit campus development, pre/post lease/purchase/sale compliance & documentation(residential & commercial properties) and of course litigation and corporate law support.

    Thereafter, in 2012, I joined Goldman Sachs in Bangalore as Legal Associate for the Corporate Real Estate Legal (CREL) and Commercial and Corporate Contract– Asia Pacific except Japan. My role in Goldman Sachs involved providing legal support to conduct real estate matters, e.g., real estate transactions including investments, capital projects, building operations, critical systems and infrastructure and was also responsible for periodic regulatory, corporate entity reporting and corporate matters related to real estate entities. Further, I did review and draft a wide variety of corporate services and other contracts including: events, travel, technology, consultant, tax & audit engagement letters, market data, subscription, employment, training, procurement and vendor contract and related matters and advised on matters, in collaboration with divisional and other specialist lawyers. Not to forget, my work also involved management of internal corporate authorizations and procedural matters and legal issues as they arise in day-to-day activities.

    In December 2014, I joined Decathlon Sports India Limited as Real Estate Legal Advisor for the South Zone and later in September 2015, I took over as the Head of Legal/Legal Director- Real Estate.

     

    You are the head of legal-real estate. What qualities helped you to achieve this status?

    To start with, the most important quality is the passion for the field of Real Estate Law.  The passion does drive me to learn each day and come back greedier to work for more. Of course, one has to be hard working and dedicated to ensure that each work stream is done with 100% commitment and integrity. There is no short-cut to gain practical experience, so the more one efficiently works on various fields with an open mind, the bigger the gain is in terms of experience. I also enjoy interacting with people and in that sense I am quite observant as a person too- this helps me a lot in business relationships and negotiations.

    Right from my days at the law firm, I was leading a team- hence leadership and managerial qualities was a key quality as well. Today I lead a team of extremely able and competent lawyers at Decathlon. Also, the nature of work I do involves lot of decision making- hence I would say managerial courage is important too.

     

    Tell us about the nature of work you are entrusted with at Decathlon Sports India Private Limited.

    Decathlon Sports  is one of the biggest sports retailers and is rapidly growing in India. I lead the legal real estate team at Decathlon. The team is primarily involved with the business and development team right from sourcing of projects to opening of stores in India. There is a variety of legal issues one has to go through including but not limited to property laws for any given projects and as you may be aware that real estate is a complex subject with laws varying from state to state.

    I am also helping certain other regions in Asia for legal matter and store openings, has been one of my expertise.

     

    What changes came into your life after becoming the legal director / Head of legal-real estate? How do you manage to strike a balance between your professional and personal life?

    For me the change is not drastic- I still continue to enjoy the work I do like I always did. Of course, there is a lot more to handle now, but when one organises work based on the priority and business requirement with the support of an extremely efficient, competent and motivated team, the work flow can be channelized. Since, there is a variety of projects across regions; I do travel now quite a bit now.

    As a young lawyer, it was difficult to manage the work and life balance as we all want to learn and excel quickly. As one grows older- and with experience it is easier to find that balance between work and life to sustain the career growth and to continue and keep the hunger to learn without risking a burn out. Therefore, dedicating time for the family and friends who are my support system especially on the weekends, doing things I like, playing sports when I can is something which really brings that balance. I am also a foodie who likes to eat and cook and I love travelling or going out for drives- I find these things really relaxing and refreshing. Without this facet of life, one cannot get the best out at the workplace- home is where the heart is as they say!

     

    What are your plans for the future?

    I plan to continue working as a real estate lawyer for sure. Perhaps, I would also like to stretch my wings to the other regions out of Asia- which I really enjoy. What would be also interesting is, apart from being a transactional and business lawyer, to go beyond legal aspects and contribute more to the organisation I am associated with. Definitely, the lawyer in me helps me to be that business partner and the risk manager!

     

    What would be your message to our readers who are budding lawyers and law students?

    From my experience, I would say that while it is very important to excel academically, it is even more important to experience the legal field from practical point of view. At the beginning, one has to be patient and must only concentrate on the learning and experience. While job tile and remuneration is important but it is not bigger than knowledge- so if a young lawyer is open to learning and only concentrates on harnessing his/her legal skills at the beginning of the career- I can assure you that job title and remuneration shall all fall into place on the long run. Efficiency in work, practical knowledge, transactional experience, managerial and decision making skills are few things no law school can teach!

    Not to forget, while we are all focussed on our career goals- never stop doing things you like doing apart from work or studies or internships. The balance between hard work and life will make the journey complete and enjoyable.

    My good wishes to all budding lawyers- the legal profession is seeing immense change and the younger generation is clearly blending in well and pushing the standards higher.

    All the best and thank you for having me!

     

     

     

  • Rajrupa Sinha Roy, Assistant Professor of Law on importance of mooting, working as a junior research fellow under MoEF and pursuing a PhD from IIT

    Rajrupa Sinha Roy, Assistant Professor of Law on importance of mooting, working as a junior research fellow under MoEF and pursuing a PhD from IIT

    Rajrupa Sinha Roy is an alumnus of NALSAR. Having studied law from Haldia Law College in 2009, she pursued LL.M from NALSAR in the year 2011. Currently pursuing his PhD in Environment Law from Rajiv Gandhi School of Intellectual Property Law, IIT Kharagpur and gainfully employed at Adamas University as an Assistant Professor of law, she has taken part in several conferences in India and abroad. An academician throughout, she has worked in various projects that were funded by Government of India.

    In this interview she talks about –

    • Her college days
    • Her opinion on importance of Mooting
    • Her experience as a Junior Research Fellow in Ganga River Basin Management Plan
    • On pursuing a PhD from an IIT
    • Her experience of working as a professor

    How would you like to introduce yourself to our readers?
    I would describe myself as a strong and dynamic personality with a broad temperament as well as someone who is a staunch supporter of innovative and constructive ideas.

     

    Tell us something about your school and college days.
    I wish I could travel back in time to be with my friends with whom I cherish fond memories. School and college days had been the best days of my life as it has helped me in shaping my present career. I take pride in being a student of Bethune Collegiate School, Kolkata which has inculcated a sense of discipline in my day to day activities. My tenure as a student at Bethune has always since my graduation from there motivated me to accept the tough challenges presented from time to time. I graciously thank Ms.Rekha Sengupta,my ex Principal, for assisting me to deal with complex situations in life. Graduating from Haldia Law College was no different from my school days since my teachers and friends reserved the same support for the endeavours I had taken now to be a lawyer. My stay at Haldia Law College has nothing but offered immense opportunities in the form of inspiration to take up higher studies that I had taken from my teachers and seniors. I owe a lot of credit to these beautiful people for what I am today.

     

    How important do you think mooting or any co-curricular activity is in shaping one’s future career in law?

    I being a student of a non NLU understand the importance of mooting in contemporary academics as I never got the opportunity to participate in any National level Moot-court Competition due to lack of proper guidance in regard thereof. Mooting is a vital co-curricular activity for all law students as it brings out the inquisitive personality in a student. It also helps in building inter-personal skills and all-round development which are basic necessities for a successful lawyer. I strongly believe that whether a NLU or non-NLU, the university should prima-facie focus on conducting moot-court competition both at University and National level to help aspiring law students to hone their skill and exhibit the same. As for other co-curricular activities are concerned a law student must make sincere efforts to undertake publication of Research Papers, Articles, Case Notes etc. in reputed journals. Publications in reputed Journals aids in writing a strong resume for students seeking jobs or applying for higher studies in reputed Universities around the world.

     

    How important a role do you think law school plays in shaping one’s career?

    The theoretical and the practical aspects of studying law are divided by a fine line of critical thinking and analysis which can be put into effective usage. Take for example an instance where the culmination of a research oriented topic could be used for framing policies in the legal domain. As the saying goes that knowledge without its application is meaningless, theoretical ideas supplemented by practical usage can go a long way in grooming a law student for achieving a successful career at the best law firms and companies in India.

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    Please share with the readers your LLM experience at NALSAR. What are the challenges you had faced while studying at NALSAR?

    I did not face much difficulty in terms of my academics as while studying for my LLB degree I had a course structure similar to that in most other law schools. However, though the syllabus and other activities were quite similar, I had but two very significant disadvantages; one was ‘Internship’ and second was ‘Moot-Court’. Nevertheless, I still treasure each and every moment of my stay at NALSAR and made friends for life.

     

    After completing your LLM, you worked as a junior research fellow in the ganga river basin management plan and policy project under the MoEF, GOI. Do share your experience on the same.

    That was a major turning point in my life where I got the opportunity to begin the most desirable research work on environmental law. I wanted to do my LLM in Environmental Law but that dream materialized in a pragmatic sense only when I started working in the Ganga River Basin Management Project. I worked in the project for almost three years where I mainly researched on various legislation and policies relating to the river Ganga. The association with prodigious academicians as well as the Ministry of Environment and Forest ascertained me with a range of opportunities. I received the chance to not only work with great academicians but to also attend several research-oriented programmes, which eventually helped me to determine the area of my Doctoral Dissertation.

     

    Please tell us about the selection procedure of for the fellowship program which you were inducted into.

    There is no specific selection procedure for these kinds of research programmes. It depends upon the types of Projects that are presently in the pipelines or are being initiated and the funding which is available for the same.

     

    Having secured a PhD from IIT, how would you describe the journey to attaining the same?

    The moment I enrolled myself for the PhD I was determined to achieve all the goals which would have never been possible before I joined.  The application procedure is very simple. The admission is open in July and in December every year. One can apply in four different categories for PhD in IIT. The first category is ‘Regular with Institute Assistantship’, which is the category where you will be ensured a Scholarship from the Institute. The second category is ‘Individual Fellowship’ (CSIR/UGC/DBT/ICAR/INSPIRE etc.). The third category is ‘Sponsored’. The fourth category is ‘Through Project’. You shall find all the rest of the details on the relevant web-page for the programme. The topic of my Doctoral dissertation is ‘Law and Policy Framework on Pollution of River Ganga in West Bengal’. I would not call it a challenge because striving hard for something which makes you knowledgeable and strong is worth the hardship and pain. I never thought in my life that I would go to Oxford University to present my thesis. I would always cherish these memories no matter where I go.

     

    You can be best described as an academician. When did you realize that academics is the place where you can excel professionally?

    I have always been fond of becoming an academician ever since I graduated as a law student. Being among the students gives me a sense of power and happiness. I believe I could positively contribute to the society by being a teacher. I could be a role model for students who are the future of this country.

     

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    You are now working as an Assistant Professor at School of Law, Adamas University Barasat. How is your work experience so far?

    The experience till now has been very wonderful. Teachers and staff have been very kind and supportive. My role as Assistant Professor has been well appreciated by the Dean of law department and, most importantly, by my students. As I have already pointed out before, it was my love for teaching as well as academics that truly prompted me to take up this job of Assistant Professor at Adamas University.

     

    In today’s time, every law graduate wants to get into the rat race of landing a job at a corporate law firm. What prompted you to choose the less charted pathway of teaching law?

    Though working with a corporate law firm is a lucrative job, one has to be satisfied as well with what he or she is doing in life. My choice of working as an academician would definitely be more about my sense of satisfaction and happiness. As already mentioned, my love for teaching had a profound influence on me on taking up this job. I believe that teaching as a profession is not a less charted pathway as one can always do better in this field as well.

    You have studied at a traditional law college, a NLU, a college constituted under the aegis of IIT, and, currently, you are teaching at a newly instituted private law school. How has the collective experience of that been?

    It will be wrong to think that you could list out the pros and cons of a University because it is not the same as measuring how you would measure any place of work or vocation.  A more appropriate way to discuss what you mentioned would be to address the challenges I faced as a student at the institutes where I studied or taught. To be very frank, in today’s time, every student faces immense stress related to academics, peer competition and the drive to excel in life. One nevertheless has to remember that opportunities lie in adversity. University is a level playing ground and it is the student who has to decide the rules of the games where he can excel.

     

    Where do you want to see yourself five to ten years down the line?

    I am very much keen to pursue Post-doctorate from a reputed University where I can excel in my research skills with regard to environmental law.

     

    What final piece of advice do you want to pass on to the readers of the SuperLawyer?

    A good piece of advice for this young generation would be that no matter how hard life plays with you it is upon you ultimately whether or not you want to get up and walk to see what life has in store for you. Never give up and try to give your best shot and leave the rest up to the Almighty.

     

  • Suhasini Rao, Co-Founder, CubeRoute Advisory Private Limited, on being a Chief Product Officer at CubeRoute Advisory Private Limited

    Suhasini Rao, Co-Founder, CubeRoute Advisory Private Limited, on being a Chief Product Officer at CubeRoute Advisory Private Limited

    Suhasini Rao graduated from University of Pune, India in 2006. She is an attorney with over a decade of diverse, post-qualification experience including chamber practice, corporate consultancy, international academics and the development sector. Areas of academic interest include public law (domestic as well as international), environmental law, developmental and infrastructural issues and public safety such as anti-harassment, anti-corruption and protection from heinous crimes.

    At present, she is the Chief Product Officer and Co-Founder of CubeRoute Advisory Private Limited.

    In this interview she talks to us about:

    • Importance of higher studies.
    • Cuberoute Advisory Private Limited.
    • Services provided by Cuberoute.
    • Her publications and importance of those publications.

    How would you like to introduce yourself to our readers?

    I am a lawyer but my work is better described as research, application and innovation in law. A large part of what I do involves trying to find easier and effective solutions to everyday problems faced by all sorts of entities while trying to comply with the law.

     

    What inclined you towards legal education?

    Environmental matters, especially the co-relation between the environment and crime, is a subject that has interested me for as long as I can recall. I chose to study law and to try and specialize in environmental law, as a result of interactions with environmentalists and naturalists during my school years. Subsequently, while my current area of work and practice is detached from everyday environmentalism, I try to stay in touch with the subject through research and allied projects.

     

    What were your areas of interest while you were in law school? How did you go about developing expertise and knowledge in these areas?

    I have a keen interest in Public international law, environmental law and criminal law since law school. From the very first year, I knew I wanted to compete in the Stetson University International Environment Law Moot Court competition, which I did in my third year. Our team went on to win the National Qualifiers and then represented India at the International Rounds. Internships too, played a roll in the learning process. Working with Mr. M.C. Mehta’s office through an internship was a fantastic learning experience. Since I am the first in my family to study law, I chose to intern with as many varied areas of law as I could, in order to better understand my capabilities and limitations and my likes and dislikes. In this process, I was lucky enough to intern in chambers of lawyers practicing at courts of first instance (civil and criminal) as well as appellate courts, and then garner some corporate and consultancy experience as well. The process of elimination is under-rated and it is important to note that unless one experiences a variety of circumstances and career realities, it is usually an incomplete picture on which crucial career choices are made.

    Share your experience at University of Torino, Italy.

    The United Nations Interregional Crime and Justice Centre (UNICRI) is one of the only institutes in the world to offer an LL.M. program in International Criminal Law. The degree is offered in conjunction with the University of Torino, Italy. Since I knew this is the subject I wished to study and that this was the only place I could do so, I chose to apply there. There have been many positive changes in the program since my time there but one of the most interesting and enduring qualities of the course is the diversity of students enrolled therein. In a class of 40 students, we had over 20 nationalities and about 15 different academic/ professional backgrounds. To this day, some of my closest friends and colleagues are those that I met at the program.

    Also, the program invites internationally acknowledged experts, justices of international courts and practicing attorneys of various international justice fora as faculty. Interaction therefore, is always academically sound and intellectually stimulating.

     

    How important is it for a lawyer to go for higher studies? What motivated you to pursue your LL.M. in International Criminal Law?

    A primary degree in law, such as an LLB in India or a JD in the US, is supposed to enable a graduate to practice law. So, unlike medicine or architecture or any other professional qualification, a Master’s Degree such as an LL.M. does not usually aim to enhance legal professional skills,but provides an in-depth perspective in the chosen subject as well as a chance to study a wider scope of application of such topics.

    Today, International Criminal Law is of more relevance than ever. It is that body of law that governs crimes committed across borders and across different identities of nationalities, ethnicities, and geographies. Money laundering, terrorist financing, human trafficking, piracy on the high seas, genocide, war crimes and a host of other criminal acts are increasingly prohibited and punished by all nations. This body of law, therefore, is vital to ensuring peace and justice across our world. I have always had an inclination to study investigation, international crime and cross-border matters and this program offered a good combination of the subjects. In fact, my thesis was on the subject of environmental crimes in the context of armed conflict.

     

    What advice would you give to people who are trying to decide which area of law to specialize in?

    There are two schools of thought to be considered while investing time, finances and resources in a second degree after a graduation in law. The first one advocates specialization in a subject closely allied to one’s chosen area of practice, if one chooses to work as a lawyer. This has obvious advantages of enabling better career opportunities, especially outside of India and also, a more comprehensive understanding of industry-related subjects. LL.M. in subjects such as project financing, international arbitration, and corporate governance can be categorized as such. On the other hand, if one is passionate about a particular area of law but which is not necessarily one that lends itself to professional practice, one can choose to earn an LL.M. in such a subject. For instance, LL.M. in human rights law, or even international criminal law are subjects that inspire academic study but are not widely practiced in India.

    Most importantly, an LL.M. is a degree that requires dedication and focus as it is a choice and not a compulsion. Hence, one should choose to earn this degree only if one is motivated to allocate sufficient time and resources to intensive study.

     

    Tell us something about CubeRoute Advisory Private Limited.

    Jaideep Chowdhary and I started CubeRoute over a year ago to focus on creating customized compliance solutions for our clients. Compliance with the law is an aspect that is troublesome for corporate, quasi-government and non-government actors, not because of a lack of willingness but because of a paucity of good training and awareness solutions. Legal professionals provide answers to legal queries but often miss out on accounting for business realities. Similarly, business strategies usually view legal compliance and awareness as an encumbrance. We, at CubeRoute, bridge the gap between these extremes. Our team therefore, comprises of professionals with a background in law, finance, management, marketing and business strategy, training and psychology, amongst others, to develop client-specific solutions.

     

    What are the services provided by the CubeRoute?

    Our services enable our clients to achieve efficient and accurate compliance with various legal mandates, in keeping with the letter as well as the spirit of the law. We provide consultancy services, business strategizing in envisaging new business models and revenue streams, content development services, corporate training and awareness workshops. We also work with child-focused entities to enable enhanced child protection mechanisms. Currently we offer services in subjects such as anti-corruption compliance, positive employment practices, child protection mechanisms and anti-competition laws. We also collaborate with various central and state government agencies in capacity building projects.

    Tell us about your publications and importance of those publications.

    Between 2014 and 2015, the Bangalore Mirror ran a weekly column – Within the Law – to highlight important legal concepts and legislation that affect the public. In this series, I wrote about the right to education, right to maintenance, marriage laws and similar issues. In 2015, I presented a paper on Women and Child Security under new legislation at the Xth Annual Conference, Centre for Public Policy, IIM – Bangalore. The publication explored the theme of bias and implementation difficulties in the anti-sexual harassment law as well as the law on sexual offences against children. Subsequently, I have authored articles for LexWitness, India’s leading magazine dedicated to legal matters, on anti-sexual harassment legislation and juvenile justice laws. I also write regularly for various online entities on subjects such as public infrastructure and property laws, family laws and security measures.

     

    What are your future plans?

    Individually, I would like to focus on bettering my understanding of public laws, focusing on food security, public infrastructure and anti-corruption and anti-money laundering. As a team, at CubeRoute we look forward to adding a greater suite of services, both offline and online, to our service menu and enhancing our team’s skills in serving our clients.

     

    What would be your message to our readers?

    Never be afraid to experiment. There is much more that can be done with a degree in law than practicing before a court. Make intelligent choices based on accurate information, but do not ignore your gut instinct. Most importantly, teach yourself the skill of how to learn – this is the one and only skill that will bring you survival and success throughout your career.

     

     

  • Shreenivas Raju, Associate, Shardul Amarchand Mangaldas, on corporate and commercial law as a field of profession

    Shreenivas Raju, Associate, Shardul Amarchand Mangaldas, on corporate and commercial law as a field of profession

    Shreenivas graduated from Loyola College, Chennai with a degree in B.Com (Hons.) and went on to pursue law from the Cardiff Law School, UK. Currently working as an Associate at the Chennai office of Shardul Amarchand Mangaldas and Co, he specializes in Corporate and Commercial Laws which according to him is also the field he aims to excel in as a lawyer. He has worked at reputed firms like Dua Associates, OSC Services Private Limited and Global Law Alliance, Singapore.

    In this interview he shares his views about –

    • Working in Indian Law firms
    • How different is Indian education system from other education systems
    • His life at Cardiff Law School
    • About His inspiration in his father
    • How Cardiff was his formative time
    • Lessons law students keep in mind before doing internships

     

    How would you introduce yourself, given that most of our readers are law aspirants, lawyers-in-the-making & young lawyers?

    I am Shreenivas, and I currently work as an Associate at Shardul Amarchand Mangaldas and Co.’s Chennai office. Yes, I am a Lawyer, but since you say that most of your readers are lawyers, friends of lawyers or law students, I’d frankly say that I’m not that well connected with the legal circle here, since I’m a non-Chennai boy; although I would also add that I have been working in Chennai for the past 3 and a half years and am getting to know my colleagues and fellow legal professionals from other firms / practices in Chennai better, and I don’t consider that to be a disadvantage / obstacle that will hinder my aspirations to become a great lawyer someday.

     

    What interest or influence propelled you to pursue law as a career? What other options were you considering apart from law and how did you make the final decision?

    When I completed my schooling, i.e., after my Std. XII board exams in May 2000, I was discussing my academic future with my father, and at that time, to be very honest with you, I was very passionate about Economics. In fact, I still am, and I guess I always will be. It is a fire inside me that will never die. So, at that time, since I had scored excellent marks in Economics in my board exams, my aim was to study and thereafter pursue Economics as a career, which, to this day, remains an unattained dream of mine. I even applied to Shri Ram College of Commerce in New Delhi, St. Xavier’s College in Mumbai, and other prestigious institutions across India, all for the B.A. Economics degree, but my father was of the opinion that a career in Economics wasn’t worth much – he felt that the only thing one could possibly achieve by studying economics is probably aim for the Nobel prize, and then basically live off research grants for the rest of his / her life in order to carry out research and compile theses. So he was not very supportive of my choice, and told me that the only option I had was to pursue a strong commerce or accountancy undergraduate degree, i.e., a Bachelor of Commerce (B.Com) degree from a reputed institution that would provide me with a thorough understanding of and exposure to the fundamental principles of commerce, business and accountancy, which would thereafter give me more clarity and focus in deciding the relevant field in which I wanted to forge a career in. He said that I could keep in touch with economics as a passion on the side if I wanted to, but that was that, and I had to stick to the aforesaid course of action. Initially, I was adamant about pursuing economics since I had offers from the afore named institutions and others, but my father never relented (even going to the extent of saying that it was either his way or the highway, since he would be the one paying for my education…!).

    So I was left with no choice but to take up the B. Com (with Honours) degree at Loyola College, Chennai. Luckily, the modules that I studies across my three years at Loyola included a module in Economics, as well as the usual modules in Financial Accounting and other fields of accounting – so, I was able to keep in touch with economics for a while during my B.Com degree. Before I knew it, three years had almost come to pass, and my father then wanted me to become a Chartered Accountant just like him. He had been a practicing Chartered Accountant for almost 23 years at that time, and his idea was that his firm / practice was already there, ready to be taken over and run by me. What he didn’t know was that I had realized very early into my B. Com degree, that I did not possess the passion and the flair for accountancy that he had. I knew that I could never do justice to this profession if I chose to become a Chartered Accountant because I didn’t have the drive. In my opinion, passion for whatever it is that one does in life is paramount in order to excel in that field– for me, there was no better example for this at that time than my father himself, a man born into a rural, agricultural family in the Badaga tribal community, who fled to erstwhile Bombay in order to pursue his dream of higher education, and ended up becoming the first ever Chartered Accountant from the his tribal community. He is a completely self-made man whose real-life rags-to-riches story would require an entirely separate interview from me to explain, and, I completely dedicate everything I have accomplished in my life today to him.  So I made this very clear to him towards the end of my B. Com degree, and told him that I wished to pursue something that I was passionate about. My father agreed to me pursuing anything I wanted but for economics and that was when I expressed an interest in pursuing a career in law. That piqued his interest as well and we sat down to discuss the options available. During the course of our discussion, he expressed a view that while the traditional law career involved qualifying and enrolling as a Barrister / Advocate with the Bar Council of India and then practicing in a court of law of one’s choosing he wanted me to explore the option of specializing in commercial or corporate law which, he thought was a fast-developing field of law with tremendous potential. One of his personal quotes which comes to my mind – “a chartered accountant is practically three-fourths a lawyer at most times…”, and being a voracious reader of the Economic Times and other business publications and magazines, made me honestly  believe that he was genuinely onto something, and so we decided that I should pursue a career in commercial / corporate law. This also seemed to make sense to me at that time since I already had a fundamental understanding of the accounting because of my undergraduate program, which I could tie in with a law degree (with specialization in commercial / corporate law modules) and thereby forge a successful career in commercial / corporate law. Even today, when I look back, I believe it was the right decision – a small example to emphasize this would be some of the transactions that I work on in my career today which involve dealing with or scrutinizing financial statements of a corporate entity – to me, these are not just accounting numbers or data, because I am aware of the underlying accounting principles behind such statements, and how the observations from a scrutiny of such statements, can be incorporated or highlighted, as and when required, in a due diligence report or a key transaction document.

     

    Tell us about your childhood and pre-college life? Was it always a dream to be in legal profession? If not what did you want to be? Who was your role-model?

    I have very fond memories of my childhood; it was a wonderful childhood spent mostly in Ooty and Coimbatore, where I studied at the best schools and my parents made sure that I never lacked anything. In terms of what I wanted to be when I grew up, the list is a long one – I wanted to be a police officer, a soldier in the Army…I even wanted to be Jackie Chan…!!! Till today, I’m a huge martial arts fan, and I still love and revere Jackie Chan. By the time I reached eighth / ninth grade at school though, I was completely smitten by Cricket…by the way; I’m a born cricket fanatic. I was born on June 25, 1983, the day India won the Prudential World Cup at the Lords Cricket Ground in London. My father kept a picture of me as a newborn baby alongside a picture of Kapil Dev holding aloft the famous trophy at Lords in our house.

     

    So yes, I was completely besotted by the game and I was playing for my School and really wanted to become a cricketer. But then again, that was a completely no-go with my father, and so was never ever possible. As I had mentioned earlier, thereafter, it was only about economics and I never contemplated the idea of becoming a lawyer while at school. In terms of role models, my cricketing inspirations were Kapil Dev, Sachin Tendulkar and Anil Kumble, and in terms of academics and a career professional, my inspiration was, is and always will be my father.

     

    You did your schooling, senior secondary and bachelors degree in india. Why did you select Cardiff Law School among others?

    Once my father and I had decided that law was the destination, we discussed the possible options where I could study law, and surprisingly my father and I were on the same page that to get the best possible education in law, the most appropriate place would be the place where the law was created, the country of the Magna Carta, which is the United Kingdom.

    So, why Cardiff?  Well, I did apply to other universities including Oxford, London School of Economics, and Kings College, London, as well as Cardiff. I did get through to the aforesaid institutions and   got offer letters from all of them. However, we realized that studying at the  these institutions would be an extremely costly affair – furthermore, despite being a top student in my school  and  college days (I was a gold medalist in Business Mathematics and Income Tax Law & Practice at Loyola College), scholarship offers weren’t easy to procure at all. Around the same time, we met one of our family friends whose son had studied at Cardiff and went on to procure LL.M degree from Oxford and qualified as a Solicitor after doing the Legal Practice Course (LPC) from Nottingham. He subsequently joined as an Associate in Freshfields Bruckhaus Deringer (one of the famed Magic Circle Law Firms based in London).. We also came to know that Cardiff University was a part of the Russell’s Group (i.e., the top twenty Universities in the United Kingdom) and that Cardiff Law School was not only amongst the top ten law schools of the United Kingdom but Cardiff itself was a very vibrant and a student friendly city providing great and economic education. So, we settled on Cardiff.

     

    Tell us about your experience at cardiff law school, Cardiff University? How would you describe your academic life at Cardiff? What curricular and extracurricular activities did you participate while in university?

    In my opinion, although the B. Com (Hons.) degree that I did at Loyola was my first undergraduate degree, the six and a half years that I spent in Cardiff (completing both my LL.B. Law (Hons.) degree and my LL.M in International Commercial Law (Masters) degree) were the true formative years of my life. I believe that, during that time, I truly discovered who I was as an individual and the extent of my capabilities and skills for which I have to thank my father for that opportunity. When you study abroad, you will notice that the differences in attitude, culture, the system of education, the system of assessment, etc. For example, the relationship between the teacher and the student – it is a relationship built on informality and trust – to this day, I cannot recall a single instance where I’ve addressed my professors / tutors as “Sir” or “Ma’am”…it was always on a first name basis, and for a new international student like me, it was as instant ice-breaker, which allowed us to be more open and frank in our interactions with our teachers, unlike in India, where certain boundaries are established immediately between the teacher and student, which, in my opinion, hamper the scope for an honest, inclusive and objective relationship during college life.

    The LL.B course was very rigorous and was delivered to students by way of lectures and tutorials (similar to group discussions). Lectures ran for five days a week between 8:00am and 3:00pm, sometimes extending later into the evenings as well, with tutorials happening everyday wherein the topics taught at the specific day’s lectures would be discussed and studied in further detail. This was a refreshing change for me from the lectures-only model that I came from in India, since the tutorial sessions were aimed at improving our understanding and consequently our application of the law. The tutorial sessions also formed a great method to revise that day’s lessons on that day itself. However, we were also required to spend quality time in the law library everyday carrying out our own independent research and supplementing the lecture study material with our own notes. All this was very different from what I had experienced in India where I would go back home after college and just complete any assignments / work given for the next day by the teachers, and when the time came to prepare for class tests or exams, all I had to do was to ensure that I committed the entire syllabus to memory (i.e., ‘mugging up’ or ‘ratta maarofy’ in Indian college lingo). Another aspect of the tutorial sessions that I enjoyed was the fact that we learned the law and developed our understanding of the law based on discussions where no one would be openly declared right or wrong – it was through interaction and open deliberations with classmates, which enabled us to develop perspective on different opinions, and to apply that perspective in our understanding of the law. In terms of assessment, we were examined by way of a mixture of exams and coursework / essays to assess your understanding, your analytical abilities, and most importantly, your understanding of the law, rather than just the strength of your memory.

    One of the most important aspects of education in the United Kingdom (and by extension, the western world) is the concept of the prevention of Plagiarism, which forms an integral part of the educational system here. This is again a very unique concept that any and every Indian student, who wishes to pursue his / her education in the UK, would do well to familiarize themselves with. The significance of plagiarism is extremely critical for every student to know, because plagiarism will not only make you liable to be failed in your degree as a whole or to be expelled from university, but it is a civil and criminal offence under the laws of the United Kingdom. The software that is used across the top universities in the United Kingdom is practically foolproof and there is no way of bypassing it. Luckily though, the top universities in the United Kingdom offer mandatory sessions on Plagiarism during their student induction sessions for international students at the start of the academic year, and so we were well-informed of its implications at the very outset.

    From a social and extra-curricular activities perspective, I was involved in various student community and local community initiatives from the Second year of my LL.B degree. During that time, I set up an Indian students’ society called YUVA – Youth of India, which went on to become the biggest Indian/ Asian student community in Cardiff and in Wales. The circumstances which led me to create the society were varied – (a) I, and many of my fellow students, had a very tough first year at Cardiff with nobody to assist or offer any support (the Indian students who had already been there for a while would never come forward to help the newbies and we were always left to fend for ourselves even at times when we needed help); (b) the Indian students studying at Cardiff University was the only student community which did not have any kind of representation through which they could present their grievances / issues to the University authorities; (c) there was no one to initiate the new students and help them to adapt to the change in culture, educational system, etc.; and (d) there was no scope for the organization of any social activities to help Indian students meet and to help them overcome homesickness, etc. I wanted to ensure that no Indian student coming to Cardiff would ever have to ever go through what I went through in my first year, which is why I approached the Cardiff University Students’ Union and created YUVA. It started out as more of a liaison between the University and its Indian students, both current and potential students. From there, YUVA began organizing events / parties for popular Indian festivals such as Diwali and Holi, which included parties, temple trips and Hindi movie-screenings at discounted rates in the local multiplexes for Indian students. Membership of the society was not restricted to Indians alone – our aim was to give the entire student community at Cardiff University a taste of Indian culture, and so we had many students of other nationalities, including Americans, Greek, English / Welsh, and Europeans. After a point in time, our events were considered “must-go-to” and during my time as President from 2004-2009, we hosted some of the biggest events in the student calendar, including our Diwali Bash in 2008, which was covered in the University’s newspaper “Gair Rhydd”, and also covered live on radio by BBC Radio Asia. Another highlight was the annual cricket match that we would organize between Indian Students and Pakistani Students during the summer every year – this cricket fixture became an annual favourite and always generated tremendous banter and camaraderie between Indian and Pakistani students, and generated a lot of buzz in the student community as a whole. All of the above led to YUVA Youth of India being declared one of the best student societies at Cardiff University, and I was voted the Best Student Society President in 2008 for my efforts.

    Other than the above. I also had the chance to pursue my greatest passion in life, i.e., Cricket, to the fullest, during my time at Cardiff. I was part of the University Cricket Team from 2004-2008, and even had the distinction of being the Captain of the team for a couple of seasons. In addition, I was also playing for a local city-based team named Cardiff Gymkhana Cricket Club in the Welsh Club Conference League, where I was also initially vice-captain and thereafter captain of the team. I also made it possible for Indian students coming to Cardiff to be able to join the aforesaid cricket league and play cricket in the summer during their time at Cardiff.

    In light of all the above, I was awarded the “Honour Roll” award by the University in 2007 – the first Indian student to receive the award in the University’s 127-year history, which subsequently led to me being chosen to represent the University at a Royal Garden Tea Party held at Buckingham Palace in July 2007, and at a State Assembly Dinner hosted by the First Minister, Rhodri Morgan AM, at the Welsh Senate – It is for these reasons why I consider my time at Cardiff University the absolute zenith of my academic and personal life so far.

     

     

    What all differences did you notice between the Indian form of education and that of abroad?

    Like I explained, I believe that, today, the Indian educational system has come a long way from its earlier avatar – this I have gleaned from my interactions with my fellow colleagues, peers and juniors. From these interactions, I understand that law courses in India are more analytical today in top institutions such as NALSAR and the National Law Schools / Universities, and as rigorous as courses in the UK and the West. At the time when I was a college student in India, as I’ve mentioned before, one major aspect of education in India was that education here was practically a test of memory power. In contrast, during my days at Cardiff, I would say 95% of the modules that I studied during the course of my LL.B and LL.M degrees had only one ‘essay’ question which was probably worth ten or twenty marks at the max – the rest were all problem questions designed to test your analytical abilities and application of the law that you have studies .This was the biggest difference, along with the plagiarism aspect that I had discussed earlier. I understand that prevention of Plagiarism is also being enforced strictly in many colleges and universities in India today.

     

    What internships and voluntary practical training did you take while in law school? What value addition did they provide to you in your career?

    In UK, there were many autumn and summer placement / internships that were available to students, but initially I did not partake any of them because of the rigorous nature of my LL.B course. During the course of my three year LL.B, I did not attend even a single internship or summer workshop for the first two years because of the course and the preparatory course work for the next years. The only internship that I did during that time was  in the summer break at the end of my first year when I returned to India  at M/s. Udwadia and Udeshi in Mumbai for a month. During the course of that internship, I was just accompanying the senior lawyers to the court carrying files, taking dictations, typing out affidavits, case notes, etc., carrying out case law research and offering assistance in any other manner requested. So in terms of value addition, it wasn’t a huge takeaway but it did give me a feel of what it would be like to be a part of a law firm.  . And if not anything else, I definitely felt the buzz of being around senior lawyers and associates.

    When I came to Chennai for the first time, I approached Dua Associates for a job, but instead they offered me an internship as I was yet to be enrolled with the Bar on an understanding that they will offer me the post of Associate based on my performance during the internship and once the enrolment has been accomplished. The internship was intense and lasted for almost three months and was probably the only meaningful internship that I had taken up  because, during that time, even though I was an intern, I was doing all the jobs a junior associate was supposed to do including working on legal opinions, case law research,  corporate and title due diligence exercises.  In the firm, I started under the supervision of the Corporate partner, Mr. R. Senthil Kumar, and thereafter the supervision of the Real Estate Partner, Mr. P.V. Sajiv Kumar.w I am grateful for that experience because it gave me the first real taste of corporate law and real estate law, and what it feels like to be a  part of a reputed corporate law firm, and helped me in  preparing myself for what I hope will turn out be a fruitful and meaningful legal career.

     

    What kind of internships would you recommend law students opt for to start building the sort of versatility and widened range of law that you are well versed with today?

    Probably the wrong question for me to be asked, as I’ve already pointed out that I have very limited legal internship experience in India. But from my interactions with peers, colleagues and juniors, I believe that one must not have a fixed mindset when they start fresh out of law school – at that time, generally, in the name of being focused, law graduated are already intent on specializing in a particular field of law and try to obtain internships that will satisfy that aim. In this regard, I would like to quote a senior partner for whom I’ve had the privilege to work with and to learn from – at the start of my career and at many instances subsequently, he told me that as an aspiring lawyer fresh out of law school, you must start with an internship in litigation. Being a corporate lawyer myself, to be honest, I know that people will be surprised by me saying this, but I do believe that the best way to start off is with litigation, because that’s the only way one will get a feeling for how law and the justice system in our country actually works. Transaction work can be learnt at the office from senior associates or by even attending training sessions, but what really happens in a court of law, the associated protocols, the application of the laws and statutes of the land, can only be understood and assimilated when you go to court, while interning under a practicing lawyer / advocate or barrister. It doesn’t matter whether it is a higher court or a lower court, start wherever you can and then go from there. Once you start going to all the big firms, there also the longer internship you get, the better. It is not in your hands.  It is pointless to have an internship for name sake rather the progression in every internship should be carried to the next one. You are going for the internship to get something out of it, right, make sure it counts. Don’t just go for an internship for that you can put a list of internships on your CV to make it look impressive. Try to have some continuity in your internship learning, even though they might be at different firms.

     

    Could you please tell us the role you played there and the challenges did you face during your initial days of practice?

     (Shreenivas was an integral part at Clifford Chance LLP, where he was involved in the leading acquisition of Kraft Food’s acquisition of Cadbury and several other international transactions between HSBC, Barclays and Standard Chartered Bank etc.)

    This was during my time as a Senior Consultant with OSC Services Private Limited, which is the captive Legal Process Outsourcing (LPO) unit of Clifford Chance LLP, located in Gurgaon, where, at the time of my employment, they had a team of, approximately 40 qualified Indian lawyers, whose role was assist lawyers and associates working for Clifford Chance LLP, a British law firm with a international presence cross border they do, with day-to-day transactional work. It is the world’s largest law firm which operates in about 60 countries right now. So, our job was to offer transactional assistance to lawyers across all the countries in their offices located in cities such as London, New York, Dubai, Singapore, Brussels, etc. There was hardly any challenge for me during my time there, as I had to work on British law aspects, and I was already competent in British law. The challenge was getting to learn all these transactional support work such as proofing of documents (for context and sanity), defined-terms checks, cross-reference checks, etc., which were primarily secretarial / clerical in nature. So the challenge at that time was in bringing me to do such kind of work, knowing fully well that I was a qualified lawyer and yet, I had to do work of a clerical nature, which had nothing to do with legal analysis and reasoning most of the time.

    For most of my time at OSC, as a Senior Consultant, I was called upon to be part of the diligence or drafting teams on most transactions. The acquisition of Cadbury was probably the biggest transaction that I’ve worked on so far for the obvious reason that it was the biggest deal of its kind in the industry at that time. We had different teams from multiple Clifford Chance offices across the world working on it simultaneously. My role was being part of the team that carried out diligence reviews of certain assets owned by Cadbury and creating a database that would list the said assets and the related details, which would subsequently be used as a key reference during the transaction documentation stage. The other transactions that I worked on were primarily in the Debt Capital Markets space for clients such as HSBC, Barclays, UBS, etc., who were all legacy clients of Clifford Chance LLP who were regularly involved in deals involving the issue of global definitive notes, and other instruments frequently used in debt capital market transactions.

     

    You have witnessed the operational style of law firms of different nations. What is your review on the working style of Indian law firms?

    While working in a foreign law firm, again, the firm culture and the work ethic are completely different. From my limited knowledge and experience, as well as from personal interactions with many foreign legal professionals during my time at Clifford Chance and Global Law Alliance LLC, I have noticed that there is a culture of accountability and responsibility – from the Partner to a Junior Associate, every person is held accountable and responsible for their actions, from the start of a transaction to its end. Associates are nurtured and made to feel a part of the transaction team from the very beginning, where they are sometimes taken along with the lead partner and the principal associates to a meeting where the firm is pitching to a potential client, and the Associate is encouraged to make a part of the pitch and thereby contribute – this goes a long way in boosting the confidence of associates and also takes them on a valuable learning curve where their perspective of the transaction starts at its very inception and ends when the transaction closes.

     

    Could you please tell us about your experience in the Global Law Alliance LLC, Singapore ?

    (Sreenivas was associated as a para legal at Global Law Alliance LLC, Singapore)

    Global Law Alliance in Singapore, I think, was a five to six month stint. It was different from my prior experiences because it was an absolute litigation firm primarily dealing with small as well as large litigation cases relating to tort law, accident liability, insurance claims, etc. For me, the take away from GLA was limited as I practically had no experience whatsoever in the kind of work they were pursuing, and because I had to hit the ground running and make good on deliverables with absolutely no prior training whatsoever. Additionally, I felt burnt out on many occasions during my time at GLA, because the deadlines were too intense and also because of the hectic work schedule in Singapore (which has a general six day working week, and in my case, which became a seven day week for the entirety of my stint there, and therefore meant absolutely no work-life balance). It was definitely not my cup of tea although I did enjoy occasionally going to court and observing the proceedings in some of the cases there. And, to be honest, I left it because I didn’t learn much in those six months and I felt that I was only going backward in my legal career.

     

    Tell us about your experience at Dua Associates Chennai and Cyril Amarchand Mangaldas Chennai and the work profile you were entrusted with.

    Dua Associates was my first official law-firm / associate role – as I mentioned earlier. I started there with the General Corporate practice headed by Mr. R. Senthil Kumar and was there for a period of three to four months, before moving to the Real Estate Practice headed by Mr. P.V. Sajiv Kumar, where I worked for the remainder of my time with the firm, i.e. around one year and three months. Again, as mentioned earlier, I believe that my time with Dua Associates was a steep learning curve for me and it was there that I really cut my teeth as a lawyer.  Today, my primary field is Real Estate / Real Estate Financing at SAMCO, and was my primary field at CAM as well. The foundation for this was laid at Dua Associates. It was quite an intimidating time for me since Dua Associates had, and continues to have till this day, a very well respected Chennai practice headed by the afore named senior lawyers which retains the confidence and trust of a formidable clientele.

    From there, I moved to CAM, where my work profile again involved a mixture of general corporate, real estate / real estate financing and a little bit of capital markets work. The general corporate aspect involved working primarily on corporate due diligence reviews and preparing legal opinions on various regulatory aspect, whereas the real estate component involved carrying out of detailed title due diligence reviews and the drafting / preparation of transaction documentation for real-estate financing transactions (in most cases, for the issuance of non-convertible / optionally convertible debentures).

     

    What prompted you to shift to the elite Indian law firms? How did your experience there differ from your earlier experiences?

    Well, what prompted my move to the elite Indian law firms is that I realized that I always wanted to be a lawyer and an associate working for a proper law firm. And when I returned from Singapore in 2013, I was already 30 and I realized that I had to move ahead to something. I joined Dua and the difference between the previous thing was that it was an LPO, the work experience is discounted wherever I go and LPO is different from a corporate kind of thing and it is more of corporate experience because of my own specific skill set, I was exposed to the legal side of things and it was a glorified back office. You’re a processor and not a lawyer and this is the biggest difference. I am a lawyer now and I was a processor then.

     

    Why the special interest in corporate laws and commercial laws with a special focus on commercial contracts, real estate & real-estate, financing, corporate governance, due diligence, regulatory & compliance?

    As I had mentioned earlier, that had been my idea all along. I did my B.Com (Hons.) and my law degrees (with my Masters being in Commercial Law) with a view to specializing in corporate / commercial law. However, I must admit that, when I started my education at Cardiff, I wasn’t aware of the true breadth of fields and practice areas under the ambit of corporate law / commercial law. It was only after I completed my LL.M. and during my subsequent stint at OSC Services that I realized that there was so many practice areas which one could be involved in. Subsequently, from my work experience with various firms, I have learnt, and continue to learn to this day, the nuances of the Corporate and the commercial field. in which I retain a special interest and wish to excel as a lawyer in this fields.

     

    What were the challenges you faced in shaping up your career as it stands today and where do you see yourself ten years from now?

    One of the biggest challenges I faced currently is keeping the fire burning inside me consistently. There are times when I get bogged down due to external and internal factors, and this is something that I am working on. Sometimes, I slip into a line of thinking that I am not where I should be right now in terms of what I have achieved in my career. I feel that I am probably three or four years behind from where I should actually be. Other than that, for me, keeping up with the ever-evolving nature of the corporate space in India and the related acts / statutes / laws, and learning how to customize the advice that we render to our clients in the current volatility of Indian markets is a key challenge. In the legal profession, it is imperative to stay at the top of your game at all times, and this means servicing the clients’ needs in the most efficient and proficient manner. For this, it is necessary to go above and beyond the call of duty and herein lays the challenge – of challenging yourself to be the best at what you do and to continually grow. Although, I also believe (as my father once told me) that the day you think you’re the best at something is the day you make the biggest mistake of your life. It is very important to acknowledge that we work in a profession where the learning never stops, and that there is always someone who is better than you and it is even more important to aspire to be as knowledgeable and as good as that person. So, therein lays the challenge- To continually learn with the same level of enthusiasm and the same level of commitment that you displayed in your younger years and not let money and any / all other internal and external factors come in the way of you becoming the best lawyer that you can be.

    Where do I see myself ten years from now? Well, I’m not the type who plans that far ahead to be honest. But I will say one thing in this regard the place where I’d ideally want to be in ten years is the following situation – at that time, if a client (on a transaction that I may be assisting the said client with) wakes up in the middle of the night or has been breaking his head all night over some legality or issue that may adversely affect the said transaction, and the said client is at their wit’s end as to how this can be resolved, then they should pick up the phone and call my number first. I want be that good a lawyer and should have earned the trust of my client to the extent that they should believe that I am the only person who can help them –  I want to be the first point of contact, the first resort for every client of mine, rather than the last resort, If I get to that place in ten years’ time, I’ll say-Mission Accomplished!

     

    What do you want to say to the next generation lawyers? What is your parting message to our readers?

    My message to young, aspiring lawyers (as well as aspiring law students) is that nothing comes easy in life…you have to put in the hard yards….especially in this profession.

    As a wizened legal eagle once told me, the legal profession is not a sprint, it’s a marathon. In a marathon, the eventual winner will be the one who conserves his energy, learns about his opponents, sees how they are running and sees the mistakes they are making, formulates a plan for the long run ahead, puts his head down and executes the plan with dedication and commitment, and then unleashes himself down the home stretch and leaves all his opponents behind. Similarly, the legal profession is like a marathon where you cannot expect to be successful overnight. It takes years of learning, practice and efforts to make it big as a lawyer and there’s no second way about it…!!!

    The Legal industry in India today is a burgeoning and cutthroat world where, if you’re not in for the long haul, then you’re on your way out before you know it…!!! The amount of law graduates being churned out of the law schools every year is increasing and there are hundreds of quality law graduates out there, and you are in competition with every single one of them. So, the stakes couldn’t be any higher.

    Be patient and willing to put into the hard yards…and never think that you are entitled to anything. In this profession you have to earn your stripes through dedication, learning and hard work, while also not compromising on your personal and professional integrity. And the most important thing to remember when you start as a lawyer is that your journey has just begun…be willing to learn first and then apply that learning…don’t worry about the money…give yourself a solid 2-3 years to build a good foundation  based on learning and application…be your best and the money will come automatically.

     

    Good Luck and God Bless!

  • Nidhishree Venugopal, Independent Practitioner, on building a career in litigation

    Nidhishree Venugopal, Independent Practitioner, on building a career in litigation

    Nidhishree Venugopal graduated from the University Law College, Bengaluru in the year 2005 and has been practicing as an Advocate before the Trial Courts, High Court of Karnataka and various other forums within and outside the State, ever since. She is a gold medalist and rank holder of the batch of 2005 across Bangalore University. Additionally, she has a post graduate diploma in Intellectual Property laws from the National Law School of India University, Bengaluru and a post graduate diploma in Media Laws from the National Academy of Legal Studies and Research, Hyderabad.

    She has an independent law practice that focuses mainly on civil, constitutional and commercial cases. These include matters relating to constitutional law, civil law, company law, arbitration, intellectual property, contracts & tenders, employment law, succession, etc. She is on the panel of the Karnataka State Legal Services Authority, High Court of Karnataka and a visiting faculty at COMMITS Institute of Journalism & Mass Communication teaching post graduate students Constitution and Media Law.

     

    In this interview she talks to us about:

    • What should a law student do to shape up his profile for litigation?
    • Necessity of a mentor or guide to handhold a young lawyer.
    • Her experience when she appeared in the court for the first time.
    • Difficulties faced in the early days of practice.

     

    What prompted you to think of law as a career?

    As I finished school, I gravitated towards writing and journalism. I contributed regularly to the youth pages of the Indian Express and the Times of India. I was a reporter for a couple of years at a local fortnightly magazine called ‘Nagar Life’. I applied and got accepted to the Communicative English graduate program in Mount Carmel College. Just a three year ‘B.A.’ did not seem like a strong enough degree to hold its own and I settled on law as a ‘safe’ option, with a 5 year ‘B.A.L., LL.B’, which sounded more robust to me, at that time. I also thought I could do a masters in journalism and switch streams, at a later point, if need be. So, law happened as a safety measure!

     

    How were your years in college? Did your study prepare you in any way for real life practice in courts?

    My batch was the last batch of ULC that had its campus in the heart of Gandhinagar, Bengaluru. Attendance was not too stringent and I made the most of it. I worked part-time with my drama teacher from school, going to various schools in the city, teaching them drama techniques. I was part of a student organization AIESEC, which is an international student exchange programme run exclusively by students. I mooted right from the first year to my final year. I did only two internships in college and both lasted a year. I interned with Poovayya & Co. in my fourth year and with Mr. Aditya Sondhi, Advocate (as he was then), in my final year. These internships were quasi-jobs, travelling beyond research and Court visits. I guess, it helped that I stayed on beyond a month (as is the regular tenure of an internship), making it easier for both to entrust me with more than piece-meal work.

    The syllabus that one studies does not exactly prepare one for practice in Courts. This was the case then, I suspect it is the case even now. We had practical subjects such as client counseling, moot court and court visit in our fourth and final year, which was not sufficient exposure, in my opinion. But then, Court is a different beast. No amount of theory/ academic inputs can prepare one for actual practice. Every day is different.

    How did you decide to pursue litigation? Were you considering any other opportunities?

    In college, I briefly thought of getting into corporate law. Both my internships were litigation internships. A month before my final year exams, I decided to stop interning, to study. On the last day of my internship, I asked Mr. Sondhi if he would consider offering me a position in his chambers. He said yes, my decision to litigate was made. Whether this decision was something I would stick by, was not clear to me, at that point.

    I told myself that I would give litigation a year and move to the corporate side if it did not agree with me. The first two years of litigation were overwhelming and exhausting. The long hours and the pressures of Court took a while to adapt to. It was not easy drawing a modest salary, when one’s corporate peers were earning 5 times that. The fact that your actions could determine the outcome of cases was also daunting.

    As I settled into the rhythm of litigation, practice was fun. The work varied from day to day and the excitement was unfailing. I enjoyed interacting with clients, meeting people from different strata of society and the thrill of appearing in Courts. My favourite analogy for litigation is a medical doctor’s practice- a patient comes to you with a problem, you diagnose the illness, you treat the illness, you cannot always guarantee that the same treatment would work for all patients- it works for some and it doesn’t for others, and you accordingly alter the course of treatment- the goal is to treat your patient successfully, within accepted professional parameters.

    It has been a little over 11 years and litigation still holds my interest.

     

    What should a law student do in your opinion to shape up his profile for litigation?

    Choose litigation internships. Moot. Read extensively. Having said that, I know of good practicing Counsel who have not interned or mooted during their student days but who are stellar at their work now. It is like learning to swim, the baby pool / floaters will only get you so far. You can only swim when you are in the deep end. Litigation internships may tailor your aptitude for the real thing.

    How important do you think mooting and academic writing are for a law student aspiring to become an advocate?

    Mooting may give a student a glimpse into Court, in that it involves preparing memorials, formulating points of law, formulating arguments and finally ‘presenting’ this before ‘judges’. Academic writing may equip the student with research and analysis skills, in examining a point of law thoroughly.

    However, in Courts it is very rare that the Advocate gets an uninterrupted period of time to present her case and questions posed by the Bench may not be part of one’s brief and are not in sequence. Also, unlike in a moot, in practice, the interest of your client will weigh heavily on your strategy and approach. Further, pleadings in a case are to be concise and to the point, with verbosity being its death knell. It is important to recognize the difference in actual practice. As an aside, if your peers and seniors at the Bar and Bench label your submissions as ‘Moot-court’ style of submissions, it would be a left-handed compliment, which you would quickly want to lose!

    Many students aspire to practice at the Supreme Court and High Courts. Should a student first practice at the trial court to learn the nuances, or is it fine to start at a High Court itself?

    I earned my stripes in the Trial Courts, right from drafting of pleadings to the conduct of full-fledged trials to final arguments. This has helped me tremendously now in my own practice. No matter where one starts her practice, it would be extremely useful to know how original trial jurisdiction works.

     

    How necessary is it to have a mentor or guide to handhold a young lawyer while still in the formative years of the profession? Did you have one?

    Since I joined Mr. Sondhi’s chambers when he had just started out independently, I had the accidental opportunity of being involved in building a practice, file by file. A lot of my values and beliefs have been shaped in the time I worked with him and he continues to be my mentor and friend, to this day. The profession is fulfilling and honourable, but at times, can prove to be treacherous. So it is important to have the right moral compass instilled to navigate it. There have also been several senior members of the Bar and colleagues who have in some way or the other helped me in my initial years and continue to guide me. You will find mentors and friends in the unlikeliest of unlikely places. I have found that members of the Bar are ready to help, if you approach them. One just has to break the ice.

     

    Describe your experience when you appeared in the court for the first time?

    I was given a service matter in the High Court, where all I had to submit was that my client was a formal party and no relief could be granted against my client. The case was called out. I entered appearance for my client. The Counsel for the Petitioner argued. The Counsel for the contesting Respondent argued. The Judge proceeded to allow the petition, granting reliefs against my client as well. I remained standing, and mute. Much to my horror, a month later, the Petitioner filed a contempt petition against both my client and the contesting Respondent and I had to face the ignominy of cowering behind my Senior, while he extricated the client from the pickle I had put it in.

    What were the difficulties you faced in the early days of your practice?

    Practice is challenging. Independent practice, moreso. An independent practitioner is a Counsel, an entrepreneur, an office manager, an HR executive, an accountant all rolled into one. I don’t think these challenges go away. With time, you just learn to adapt to these challenges, better and better. On my first day of independent practice, the Judge asked me to bring my ‘senior’ for arguments, when I stood up to argue a case. It is a different matter that even when I was attached to my Senior’s chambers, he was confident enough to entrust the conduct of the entire case to me! Just a few days ago, a client who came to meet me for the first time candidly said, ‘I expected you to be a lot older.’ I have had a few experiences where prospective clients have been hesitant to entrust their matters to me, as I am a woman. However, these instances have been few and far between and I have been fortunate enough to have clients who have looked at my abilities, rather than my age or gender. It is not that the profession is stacked against women or young lawyers, but it is that there has been a status quo-ist state of affairs, for decades now. More women are coming in. More young lawyers are striking out on their own. Slowly, things are changing. We are learning to adapt.

     

    What would be your parting advice to our readers?

    While I understand that litigation is not the only career option for a law graduate these days, I also find it saddening that an increasing number of students are opting out of practice, a tad too hastily. Litigation is hard, yes. But if our medical students said studying medicine takes too long, practicing medicine is hard and the pay is too meager, we would have no doctors. Litigate and engage with the judicial system.

  • Rahul Kothari, Advocate, on starting an independent practice in Corporate Law

    Rahul Kothari, Advocate, on starting an independent practice in Corporate Law

    Rahul Kothari is an alumnus of Symbiosis Law School, Pune. Having completed his BBA.LL.B from Symbiosis in the year 2009, he is currently running an independent practice on dispute resolution, contract drafting and negotiation, real estate transactions, general corporate and compliance issues. Prior to and subsequent to his graduation, he worked with Hariani & Co. for four years and then at AZB & Partners for three years, thereby gaining an immense experience in dispute resolution, contract drafting, negotiation, real estate transactions, general corporate and compliance matters. Rahul is also presently a visiting faculty at Symbiosis Law School in Pune and at Symbiosis School for Economics in Pune.

    In this interview Rahul talks about –

    • His law school experience
    • His suggestion on how to make a career in a particular field of law
    • His take on mooting writing research papers
    • His experience of independent practice
    • Scope of ADR and the recent amendments in Arbitration and Conciliation Act, 1996
    • His opinion on balancing between personal interest and financial security

     

    HOW WOULD YOU LIKE TO INTRODUCE YOURSELF TO OUR READERS?

    Thank you for this opportunity. I am humbled. I don’t think that at this stage I would ‘qualify’ as a SuperLawyer – but hopefully I will get there someday. And, as for the introduction, I will let the readers be the best judge of who I am once they have read this interview.

     

    WHAT ARE THE FACTORS THAT MOTIVATED YOU TO CHOOSE LAW OVER OTHER PROFESSIONS?

    The most clichéd response to that question would be that I had a passion for the subject and the profession. However, that is only partially true – I had in fact practically closed other doors to most other professions. I did not enjoy nor had much acumen for maths or science, but at the same time did not want to be the average B.Com graduate. Hence, that pretty much left me with only one option – law! The most crucial factor, however, was my curiosity for the subject. I first got introduced to law while I was in my 8th standard of school. It was when I first learnt of basic fundamental rights, etc. in my civics lessons. That got me interested in the subject – and the rest as they say is history!

     

    HOW WILL YOU DESCRIBE YOUR LAW SCHOOL EXPERIENCE?

    I would describe my law school experience as some of the best years of my life.  As far as I know, other than medicine, the five-year law course is probably one of the longest academic courses, which could get a bit hectic at times, especially around exam time. I must admit that there were some law subjects that I did not enjoy much – just because of a sheer lack of interest. However, most subjects were enjoyable. I also believe that two other factors made my time at law school extremely memorable – my friends and the law school itself i.e. Symbiosis Law School, Pune. Both these factors in a way compliment and supplement each other. Traditionally, most Symbiosis institutes have students from various parts of the country, and Symbiosis Law School was no different – which made the experience enriching and diverse.

     

    HOW SHOULD ONE CHOOSE A PARTICULAR FIELD OF LAW TO PURSUE AND MAKE A CAREER IN?

    That’s a very good question. I’m not sure whether there is a universally applicable or accurate answer to this question – but here’s my take.

    Imagine your time in law school (including the internships) as a buffet meal. Try a bit of everything. You may like some things, and some things you may not – but you will only know that once each item in the buffet is tasted; the experience being also necessarily personal and not dependent on someone else’s tastes. I feel that ideally, one should not choose his/her interest in a particular field of law during their time in law school – it should be done within about 2-3 years of graduating from law school. In fact, there are many areas of law that one is not even exposed to while in law school, which require in-depth specialization. One such example applicable to me was maritime law – this was not taught to us in law school at all. The massive advantage that the students have is full service law firms that take in interns as well as fresh graduates. If a student does get an opportunity, my sincere advice is to not miss out on it. These law firms tend to give an excellent exposure to interns and fresh graduates into various fields of law. Sometimes, just listening to a colleague/ senior talk about a matter can give a whole new perspective on a subject.

     

    WHAT’S YOUR TAKE ON THE POPULAR STAND TAKEN ON LAW STUDENTS THAT WITHOUT MOOTS OR PUBLICATIONS YOU CAN NEVER LAND A DECENT JOB?

    This is not true – but it is very important to understand the context behind this often misunderstood issue. The skill set that one tends to develop while taking part in moot courts is invaluable, namely, research, oral argument, drafting, confidence, analytical thinking and clarity of thought. These are some of the most basic and essential skills needed to make a good lawyer. Similar is the case with authoring research papers, with the missing skill of oral arguments. Hence, in my opinion, a student’s abilities tend to sharpen with the skills developed through participation in moot courts and authoring research papers. These skills also tend to help one get through an interview process better. However, it is pertinent to point out here that in no way does this mean that without participating in moot courts or authoring research papers, one’s career gets hampered. Students need to realize that the ‘real world’ requires many more skills, which many a times are not even taught in law school. In fact, I know of many lawyers who have not taken part in any moot courts or authored a single research paper, and yet, are doing exceedingly well in their respective careers.

    To conclude on this point, in my opinion, moot courts and authoring research papers may give one a better start during the first 6 months to a year as a fresh graduate with a new job, but lack of this does not hamper career prospects.

     

    POST-GRADUATION, YOU WORKED IN LAW FIRMS FOR SIX YEARS AFTER WHICH YOU STARTED AN INDEPENDENT PRACTICE. WAS INDEPENDENT PRACTICE ALWAYS ON YOUR MIND SINCE YOU STARTED LAW OR WAS IT THE PRODUCT OF A RECENT SHIFT OF THOUGHT?

    It was always on my mind. It was just a matter of ‘when’ not ‘if’. As a person, I enjoy my freedom, and like to do things my way. A significant aspect that I have learnt over the years is to maintain one’s individuality – and not follow the crowd. This trait does not usually yield short term and immediate returns but, in the long term, it will surely help. Most people I know tend to join a law firm and stick around to hopefully make partner someday. Being with an established law firm was never a part of my long-term plan – but establishing my own law firm was always part of the agenda.

     

    HOW MUCH HAS THE KNOWLEDGE AND EXPERIENCE OF WORKING AT TOP COMMERCIAL LAW FIRMS HELPED YOU IN YOUR CURRENT SEPARATE PRACTICE?

    Immensely! The knowledge and experience gained at both Hariani & Co. as well as AZB & Partners is priceless and invaluable. In addition to the regular legal work, with both firms, I tried to work on non-legal matters too. With Hariani & Co., I was the Editor of their Newsletter and also wrote a few articles. With AZB, I additionally did a little PR, attended conferences and handled some office administration too. Neither of the tasks was thrust upon me, but since my eventual plan was always to start my own law firm, these additional tasks added value to the legal knowledge that I was gaining in any case. However, a common mistake by students is to assume that a large law firm always tends to give better experience – this is not necessarily true. There are a multitude of factors which determine how fruitful, satisfying or enriching your experience with a law firm is – and the size of the law firm is a relevant but not necessarily that important a factor.

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    YOU ADVICE CLIENTS ON CIVIL AND COMMERCIAL ALTERNATIVE DISPUTE RESOLUTION (ADR). CAN YOU THROW LIGHT ON ADR AND ITS SCOPE WITHIN THE NATIONAL CONTEXT FOR OUR YOUNG READERS?

    Well, this is a little tricky. Alternate Dispute Resolution is a fairly vast subject. I feel that any attempt to answer your queries will likely result in students or young lawyers having more questions than answers, but I will give it a shot. Simply put, Alternate Dispute Resolution is basically any form of dispute resolution that is attempted to be achieved outside the traditional Court/Judicial system, usually without much of it entering the public domain. The main and most popular forms of ADR are Arbitration, Conciliation and Mediation. The Arbitration and Conciliation Act, 1996 (as amended and updated) is presently the primary statute governing ADR in India. Mediation and conciliation in the Indian context are quite similar. While some may disagree, I feel that, in the Indian context, mediation and conciliation are not very effective or efficient means of ADR, and are not likely to gain much popularity in the near future. Arbitration, I find, is a fairly effective and efficient means of ADR, especially in view of the recent amendments (which I have discussed below). The main drawbacks of most forms of ADR are lack of awareness and knowledge on the subject by parties as well as genuine willingness of parties to participate in actual ADR. Also, in relative terms, traditional litigation in India is not very expensive, and hence, does not tend to be a deterrent to a party to not approach the Courts and instead go for ADR. Although, I am hopeful that all forms of ADR become a genuine alternative for litigants, I find that other than Arbitration, there is not much scope for other forms of ADR, especially in the present and near future, and considering the current Indian context.

     

    WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THE RECENT AMENDMENTS BROUGHT TO THE ARBITRATION AND CONCILIATION ACT, 1996? HOW BENEFICIAL IS IT IN ESTABLISHING INDIA AS AN INTERNATIONAL ARBITRATION DESTINATION?

    I think it may be too soon to give a view on the recent amendments. I feel that the amendments are well intended, but whether they can be practically achieved or not is the real question. One example is that of the timeline prescribed for completion of proceedings being 12 months with a 6-month extension. While this is an optimistic change, it may not work in the Indian context or for that matter for complicated disputes involving large sums of money. I think that the recent amendments need to be taken in the right spirit, and needs the cooperation of parties, lawyers as well as the arbitrators. If implemented correctly and in the right spirit, these amendments could bring a significant change to the Arbitration scenario in India. As for establishing India as an international arbitration destination, I feel that this is a bit of a misnomer. Most international arbitration destinations, such as Paris, London and New York are in fact cities that have developed into internal arbitration destinations. Hence, ideally, we should focus on important cities and ensure that the infrastructure, the administration as well as the Courts of that city/State support arbitration. Also, I personally feel that none of our cities may truly become ‘international’ arbitration destinations until we allow foreign lawyers to appear in Indian seated arbitrations. This I feel will completely change the game with respect to arbitration in our country.

     

    MANY STUDENTS TAKE UP CORPORATE JOBS, DESPITE HAVING INTERESTS IN OTHER LEGAL STREAMS, POST GRADUATION BECAUSE OF THE FINANCIAL REWARDS THAT IT OFFERS OR THE PERCEPTION THEREOF. HOW YOU THINK ONE CAN BALANCE PERSONAL INTERESTS AND FINANCIAL SECURITY?

    That’s a very difficult a question to answer. I was just speaking about this to a Senior Advocate who I have briefed in one of my matters. He told me that for the first 10 years of entering the profession (he has been practicing for over 30 years now), he did not earn any money at all. His senior just paid him a few monthly out of pocket expenses! However, he gained in terms of knowledge, immensely from his senior, and that was invaluable. I cannot imagine the current crop of lawyers going through a similar period in today’s day and age. I guess one way to balance this is that for the first few years you may join a law firm. Most of them (in large cities) pay even freshers quite well. Stick around with the firm for a few years, ensure a good amount of savings and capital, and then follow your dream in whichever other field of law that you enjoy. This could possibly have an added advantage that you get exposure for a few years in a law firm, which could possibly open up many more avenues for young lawyers.

     

    RAPID FIRE QUESTIONS –

    • Happiest Day as a law student and law professor –

    As a law student – when I graduated law and received my sanad (license to practice).

    As a law teacher – whenever I bump into my students after they have graduated and they thank me for teaching them. I enjoy the fact that I have, in however small a way, contributed to the law student as well as the legal profession in general.

     

    • Worst Day as a law student and law professor

    Not really had a ‘worst day’ as such either as a student or as a teacher. I take the ups and downs in my stride.

     

    • Proudest Moment –

    As a professional: My first appearance at the Bombay High Court which happened to be with a Sr. Advocate. The matter got adjourned. But I have framed a certified copy of the adjournment order recording my first appearance.

    As a teacher: When a teacher that taught me in law school sat through one of my lectures along with students of the class, and on completion of my lecture complimented my teaching. I can also proudly say that my teacher later (briefly) became my student!

     

    MANY LAW STUDENTS PUT THEMSELVES INTO A SHELL WHILE CHOOSING A FIELD OF LAW. THEY ARE NOT OPEN OR READY TO EXPLORE NEWER AND UNIQUE OPPORTUNITIES. WHAT SUGGESTION WOULD YOU GIVE TO SUCH STUDENTS?

    As I said above, for the first few years, consider you are at a buffet. Try a bit of everything. To quote from Forrest Gump, “Life is like a box of chocolates. You never know what you’re going to get.”

     

    IS THERE ANY PARTING PIECE OF ADVICE YOU WOULD LIKE TO PASS ON TO THE READERS, ESPECIALLY THE STUDENTS?

    Don’t accept mediocrity. I don’t believe in the ‘chalta-hai’ attitude. To borrow from the tagline/slogan of Mercedes – “The best or nothing” – this is the motto I tend to follow.

  • Vikram Raghavan, Lead Counsel, World Bank, on work experience and authoring legal books and articles

    Vikram Raghavan, Lead Counsel, World Bank, on work experience and authoring legal books and articles

    Vikram Raghavan graduated from NLSIU, Bangalore with eight gold medals in diverse fields of law in the year 1997 and then went to pursue his masters from New York University. Right after that he started work as an attorney at O’Melveny & Myers, an international law firm in New York City.

    Currently Vikram is currently a Lead Counsel at the World Bank in Washington, DC, and he advises on conflict, fragility, refugees, and macroeconomics. Among other things, he provides legal advice about military coups; United Nations sanctions; debt relief; and loan conditionality. He has authored a book titled Communications Law in India (LexisNexis, 2006) and co-edited a volume of essays: Comparative Constitutionalism in South Asia (Oxford University Press, 2013). His articles are reflected in The Hindu and Economics and Political Weekly.

    In this interview he talks to us about:

    • Choosing law as a profession and his experience at NLSIU, Bangalore and New York University;
    • The art of managing life at law school and to develop interests in different curricular activities;
    • His formative years as a lawyer and his time at O’Melveny & Myers, New York City.
    • His early life at World Bank as a counsel and moving ahead and becoming the lead counsel at the World Bank.

     

    What made you opt for law as a career?

    Well, I was always interested in argumentation. My father was a lawyer and my grandfather was a lawyer as well. But the family profession, so to speak, influenced my decision only so much. When I was about thirteen years old, I read Prashant Bhushan’s book “The Case That Shook India.” I always wanted to do what he did and what he described about the court room drama.

    However, it wasn’t an easy decision because at that time law was not considered to be a prestigious profession. The National Law School had just started and not even a single judge had graduated. So, there was a lot of uncertainty about it and ultimately, the fact was I didn’t want to do science. I had taken commerce and my only options were doing economics, commerce or something else entirely. So, law looked like an attractive idea because NLSIU had just started. I gave myself a year to see if law suited me, if it had not- I guess I had an option of coming back to economics.

     

    Could you tell us about your life before you joined college? Where did your interests lie during your school days?

    During school, I was a stamp collector first and foremost. Philately, as a hobby, shaped my interest in world events and in general knowledge. I also obtained a lot of confidence in public speaking by speaking at the South India Philatelists Association’s second Sunday meetings in Madras. Everyone who attended had to speak. So it was a nice way to get rid of adolescent stage fright.

     

    What curricular and extra-curricular activities did you participate while being in university?

    Well, it was an intense period of five years. The schedule of studies, as you would know, at any National law school is quite demanding. There are deadlines for something or the other, every other week — project submissions, moot courts, mid-terms, and end terms. So I spent most of time by trying to catch up and be on top of the different deadlines that would come.

    Of course, when I was in college, there was no proper Internet. The campus itself did not have many facilities besides the library, which closed at 6.00 p.m. And you could borrow only three books. So I couldn’t say I was very productive. But during those five years, I tried my hand at different things. In my first two years, I did judo at the Sports Authority of India campus near the Law School. I tried my hand at quizzing, but there were much better quizzers at the law school than me. To be sure, there were other extra-curricular activities at NLS like sports and debates. But then again the school was filled with many talented students from the best schools in India. I simply did not have the background or training in high school to compete with them.

    The incentive system in the law school was also skewed in favour of mainstream academic excellence. There were three big things you did if you wanted to be noticed: moot courts, grades, and articles. So, basically I spent those five years trying to get good grades. And you know I don’t regret those five years. What I am today is due to those five years of hard work.

     

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    Could you tell about your internship experiences? What sort of internships did you prefer and what learning experiences did you gain from it?

    Well, I did four internships in those five years. The first one was an internship with  R. Gandhi, which involved working on a lot of constitutional law matters. Among others, I worked with T. Sivagnanam, who is currently a judge at the Madras High Court and on the law school’s governing council as well I think. I also interned with N. Paul Vasanthakumar, the current chief justice of Jammu and Kashmir as well Ravi Chandra Babu, who is also now a judge. These judges were the three lawyers who I worked most closely with during my first internship. The second internship was in the Madras High Court focusing on criminal law under N.T Vanamamalai, a senior advocate. In my fourth year, I worked with K.K. Venugopal and in my fifth year I went to Sri Lanka to work with the Tamil leader, Dr. Neelan Tiruchelvam on the constitution-making process.

     

    Straight after your under-graduation you went abroad to pursue masters at New York university. What was your experience at NYU and what all differences did you notice in quality of education at NLSIU and NYU?

    Well, obviously the facilities over NLSIU were rudimentary. New York University had a lot more facilities. The library was out of this world and the NLS library in those days was still getting built. In those days, we didn’t have the internet so, you know things were different. Also American law schools are rigorous. They put a lot of effort into preparation before class. So, if you don’t read up and come to class then it would be difficult for you to follow.

     

    Could you please tell us about the skills and preparation needed for the moots, building arguments and the way to read a judge’s mind and what are the criteria’s a judge chooses to mark the participant?

    (Vikram has represented India at Philip C. Jessup moot court competition and he also served as the executive council member till the year 2011.)

    Mooting is something that I strongly recommend because I think it really helps in court craft and you it helps you dig deep into a legal subject. When I was a law student there weren’t so many moots like you have today. More number of moots are opportunities for people to learn and explore. Eeveryone at NLS has to compete internally first for it, and the internal competitions were in itself very intense. These competitions conducted across the different classes, which meant you had to argue against the seniors who know more law than you do.

    This was a good process, because it forced you to basically go out of your comfort zone and learn new things very quickly. Participating in the Jessup, no doubt, enhanced my interest in international law. Probably my career today is based on that experience.

     

    You have been an associate at O’Melveny & Myers LLP, An International Law firm. Could you please tell us the experience there?

    That was just after NYU. I spent three years at O’Melveny. I worked on corporate and transactional work and also some litigation, basically international arbitration. It was a very intense experience, because U.S Law firms practice law in a way that is very demanding.  I think the main thing for me was to be able to practice law with very smart lawyers and clients.

     

    You were the editor of NYU Journal of International law and politics. Could please tell us the role you played and what all things did you achieve during your tenure as an editor?

    I wasn’t the editor. A friend of mine was an editor. I was just a graduate editor. If you look at the cover page it has many editors and editor is mostly just a title. I was involved in proof reading some of the articles. I don’t know what the editorial process is like now in Indian law school but it was certainly different from what we did at NLS. At NYU, a lot of care and attention was taken to ensure that the articles are selected properly and carefully formatted and cross-checked. It is a very rigorous exercise.

     

    Could you please tell us about your recruitment at the World Bank and initial days of work? Is it possible for a law student to get an internship at the World Bank?

    (Vikram started at World Bank as a counsel and now he is the lead counsel of operational policy at the World Bank.)

    After three years at a law firm, I applied for and got hired as a counsel at the World Bank. When I came first here, I was given Sri Lanka and Nepal and later Afghanistan and Iraq. That experience was really worth in a way shaped my profile at the bank, working with conflict prone countries, and more unstable countries. I think it was an exciting portfolio for any lawyer to do because it has a mixture of law and policy. Working on a World Bank project is, in itself, a very challenging and rewarding thing. Sadly, we don’t offer regular internships at the World Bank’s legal department. Most of our interns come from institutional partners like NYU who pay the students a stipend. The World Bank does not have the budget nor can we take unpaid interns.

     

    Could please tell us how to develop writing skills to our readers who are mostly law students?

    (Vikram has authored a book on communications law in India and co-edited volumes of essays on comparative constitutionalism in South Asia, his articles are reflected in the editorial columns of The Hindu and Economic and Political Weekly.)

    I would recommend students read the work of Bryan A. Garner. He advocates writing simply and elegantly. Read his work. And you will write very differently. I guarantee it.

     

    How did you to continue to maintain the love for history, economics and law, despite such hectic schedule in life?

    It is always a challenge. Every day, every minute you have to find time to do different things.

     

    What would be your message to the young law students and budding lawyers?

    Well keep working hard, and I believe whoever keeps working hard basically succeeds. It doesn’t matter what school you go to or what grades you get, your hard work helps you. Gain expertise in the subjects that interest you. Build a brand for yourself.

  • Pranav Khatavkar, Advocate, on legal research acumen, founding a law journal, and authoring a commentary on the Insolvency and Bankruptcy Code, 2016

    Pranav Khatavkar, Advocate, on legal research acumen, founding a law journal, and authoring a commentary on the Insolvency and Bankruptcy Code, 2016

    Pranav Khatavkar completed his B.B.A. LL.B. from Symbiosis Law School, Pune in the year 2015 and his area of specialization is business law (dispute resolution as well as advisory). In pursuance of the same, he has obtained additional qualifications in Mergers & Acquisitions, Investment Laws and Corporate Finance from ASCL Law School. He has also obtained the Securities Intermediaries Compliance (Non-Fund) Certification and Issuers Compliance Certification from National Institute of Securities Markets. Further, he has completed a summer school on International Financial Law and Regulation from the London School of Economics and Political Science, United Kingdom (LSE).

    Pranav’s stellar academic and research credentials are evident from his publications in nationally and internationally renowned journals like Symbiosis Student Law Review, Plebs Journal of Law, International Journal of Legal Sciences and Research, World Journal on Juristic Polity, International Journal of Law and Legal Jurisprudence Studies and International Journal of Legal Research. He has also penned India’s first commentary on the Insolvency and Bankruptcy Code, 2016.

    Pranav also has a very well rounded internship exposure. He has interned at prestigious law firms such as Juriscorp, Trilegal, Economic Laws Practice, Lakshmikumaran&Sridharan and the then AmarchandMangaldas Suresh Shroff& Co. (Now known as Cyril AmarchandMangaldas). He is also the only candidate from his batch to have secured an internship at India’s capital markets regulator (i.e. Securities and Exchange Board of India) and India’s banking sector regulator (i.e. Reserve Bank of India).

    He is also the founding editor of International Commercial Law Review and the erstwhile President of the India Chapter of Network for International Law Students.

    In this interview, he speaks about:-

    • His law school experience
    • Role of grades in one’s career
    • Attending a summer school at the London School of Economics and Political Science
    • His decision to become a commercial lawyer
    • His experience of penning India’s first book on the recently enacted Insolvency and Bankruptcy Code, 2016 and founding a law journal.
    • Pursuing additional qualifications and clearing the compliance module offered by the National Institute of Securities Markets in the first attempt.
    • His take on the All India Bar Examination(AIBE) and enrolling for Bar Hacker.

     

    HOW WOULD YOU LIKE TO INTRODUCE YOURSELF TO OUR READERS?

    Professionally speaking, I am an independent legal professional based out of Mumbai specializing in commercial law (litigation as well as advisory). I am also retained as a Counsel at M/s Synlitigators. Otherwise, I am an unassuming person experiencing life as it unfolds itself to me.

     

    PLEASE TELL US SOMETHING ABOUT YOUR TIME AT LAW SCHOOL.

    Law school for me was a period of tremendous personal and professional development. I was shaped by my experiences. My primary and only focus during my law school days was to find a practice area to specialize in. In pursuance of the same, I read several books, engaged in industry oriented research, networked with people from the industry, pursued additional qualifications and interned at different places. My experiences allowed me to tap into a catena of perspectives that helped me arrive at a decision regarding my practice area and simultaneously build a network.

     

    HOW IMPORTANT A ROLE DO YOU THINK GRADES PLAY IN SHAPING ONE’S CAREER?

    In my opinion, grades assume relative importance (largely in the short term) which depends to a great extent on the set of circumstances you find yourself in. I believe grades play an important role in the following circumstances:-

    While applying for jobs as a fresher – Majority of the top law firms and companies (including quite a few mid-tier ones) (I collectively refer to them as “companies”) that recruit law graduates either through college placements or otherwise often enlist grades as one of the several criteria while short listing candidates for a job. As unfair as it may sound to other candidates who don’t have impressive grades but shine in other aspects (many of them actually do), companies have a valid reason to do this. Companies are also fully aware of the fact that grades don’t necessarily reflect a candidate’s merit and ability but they still use that as a criterion to shortlist candidates simply because they do not have the time and the resources to review each job application on merits as their primary concern is running the company and generating revenue. Recruitments are only one of the several aspects that come into the picture while running a company. Companies in order to reduce their time and effort in recruitments, use grades as a yardstick to shortlist candidates. Furthermore, seen from the viewpoint of the company, ultimately, they are going to make an investment of their time and money in you if they hire you. Hence, by using grades as a yardstick, they also gauge your consistency and motivation to perform. So if you are keen on working with a good company, then, yes, grades are important and especially if you come from a law school that does not feature in the popular rankings. Yes, companies also look at the ranking of your law school. While answering this question, I am categorically excluding those candidates who have strong industry connections using which they often get placed at top companies. I am addressing the concerns of the larger pool of unconnected candidates here.

    While applying for the LL.M. Program – Candidates who are keen on pursuing the LL.M. Program especially from well-established international universities need to have good grades. Since these are primarily academic institutions, it is obvious that they would demand stellar academic credentials from the applicants. Further, even National Law Schools (which I believe are the only places that offer a decent LL.M. Program in India as of date) select candidates for the LL.M. Program on the basis of their performance in the Common Law Admission Test (CLAT) that is designed only for the LL.M. applicants. So with respect to further education, academic performance is very important.

    I conclude this point by saying what I said earlier in this answer. Grades assume relative importance largely in the short term which is further dependent on your set of circumstances at the relevant time. As far as your job prospects as a fresher are concerned, look at your grades as an access pass to enter the job market. Once you are in, then you are on the same footing with everybody else in the market. In order to differentiate yourself then, you have to only focus on delivering results. This applies even to those candidates who secure jobs through references. Ultimately, the industry evaluates you on your individual merit and credence irrespective of your background and connections.

    As far as the long term is concerned, your grades don’t necessarily matter. Then it is only your work that largely speaks for itself. Nevertheless, seen from a holistic perspective, your long term also comprises of several short terms (including your short term time duration as a fresher wherein your grades matter which might influence the subsequent short terms and ultimately your long term if you were to connect the dots). Sounds contradictory and confusing, doesn’t it? Believe me, it’s not.

    To clear this apparent contradiction and confusion, I will just say that you should try your level best to get good grades but at the same time not get bogged down if you aren’t able to achieve the desired score. Give it your best shot and leave the rest to the circumstances. Remember – circumstances no matter how good or bad they appear to be, always change. Nothing stays. Control what you can, manage what you cannot.

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    HOW WOULD YOU DESCRIBE YOUR SUMMER SCHOOL EXPERIENCE AT LSE? WHAT MADE YOU DECIDE TO CHOOSE IT AND WOULD YOU RECOMMEND IT TO OTHER LAW STUDENTS AND LEGAL PROFESSIONALS?

    I wanted to enhance my understanding of the jurisprudential foundation of Indian financial law. Since Indian financial law draws heavily from its British counterpart, I attended a summer school at LSE to study UK financial law and regulation. I had a fabulous time studying at LSE and exploring UK generally. I also learnt a great deal about myself and became more independent. I would certainly recommend attending LSE’s summer school to all law students and legal professionals (subject to your feasibility).

     

    WHY DID YOU ELECT TO BECOME A COMMERCIAL LAWYER? WHAT KIND OF WORK DO YOU DO?

    I support my decision for becoming a commercial lawyer (focusing specifically on commercial litigation and arbitration) on the basis of two averments. First, this field is dynamic and vibrant. Every matter exposes you to a new jurisprudential or a practical aspect of commercial law that you cannot fathom otherwise. Hence, the scope for learning is actually unlimited. Second, there are tremendous growth prospects in this field as there is a huge demand for legal professionals who demonstrate a sound understanding of the legal aspects of business and commerce. Once established, sky is the limit.

    After graduation, I worked at a mid-size law firm for a year before migrating to individual practice. My work now largely involves the following:-

    • Representing banks, financial institutions and corporations before the Bombay High Court, Debts Recovery Tribunal and Debts Recovery Appellate Tribunal.
    • Drafting pleadings and applications in law suits and researching on different aspects of corporate/commercial and bankruptcy law.
    • Advising and representing clients in commercial arbitrations.
    • Advising clients on pre-litigation strategy and procedure.
    • Briefing counsels in various litigation and arbitration proceedings.

     

    HOW WOULD YOU DESCRIBE YOUR EXPERIENCE OF HAVING INTERNED AT THE TOP LAW FIRMS AS WELL AS THE GOVERNMENT ORGANIZATIONS TOO WHERE YOU HAVE GAINED A WORK EXPERIENCE?

    (Pranav has interned with Juris Corp, Trilegal, Economics Laws Practice, Lakshmikumaran & Sridharan and Amarchand Mangaldas Suresh Shroff & Co, now Cyril Amarchand Mangaldas, on the one hand as well as with the Reserve Bank of India and the Securities Exchange Board of India on the other.)

    I interned at law firms specializing in commercial law firms with the primary intention of exploring the practical aspects of commercial law and subsequently taking a call with respect to narrowing down on a practice area. My law firm internships gave me an opportunity to work on a variety of commercial law matters (research as well as drafting). My internships at SEBI and RBI gave me a first-hand exposure to financial regulation. My overall internship exposure gave me tremendous insight in terms of industry operations.

     

    WHAT IN YOUR OPINION IS THE APPROPRIATE WAY FOR ONE TO CHOOSE HIS/HER AREA SPECIALIZATION WHILE AT LAW SCHOOL? WHAT VALUE ADDITIONS DO THESE DIPLOMAS AND ADDITIONAL QUALIFICATIONS OFFER?

    (Pranav has secured diplomas in Corporate Finance, Securities Law, Investment Law and Mergers & Acquisitions. In fact he had pursued his diploma degrees at a fairly early stage of his law school tenure when most others remain undecided about where they want to go.)

    I will first answer the last part of your question that broaches the value additions offered by these diplomas. The academic structure of most of these diplomas offered by other reputed institutions is usually designed after consulting industry experts; for e.g. the Business Law Diploma offered by iPleaders. Although I haven’t done the course as of now, but on the basis of the reviews that it has received and more importantly on the basis of my perusal of the sample study material that is available in public domain, I can say that the insights one will gain after doing a course like this, will certainly benefit him/her in practice which I believe is what ultimately matters.

    With all due respect to the prescribed law school curriculum, I am constrained to say that it is largely theoretical rather than being practical. While I don’t dispute the importance of theory, but I do emphasize the importance of putting theory to practice and therefore recommend a more practice oriented curriculum. Practice not only tests the veracity of theory, but also brings to light issues which have not been previously considered by theory. The investment of money and more importantly the time in law school should yield returns in one’s career. Hence, I recommend pursuing additional qualifications while managing the law school curriculum to expand one’s horizon.

    I believe, a law student should select his area of specialization on the basis of the following considerations:-

    • Existing and estimated growth rate.
    • Demand-supply specifics from an industry standpoint.
    • Existing and prospective competition one can or will encounter.

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    YOU ALSO HAVE A FAIR SHARE OF LEGISLATIVE DRAFTING AND RESEARCH EXPERIENCE. HOW WILL YOU DESCRIBE YOUR EXPERIENCE WITH THE SAME?

    (Pranav was awarded the Best Contributor Award for making concrete recommendations to the Prevention of Sexual Harassment of Women at Workplace Bill, 2010 as a part of Legislative Analysis Project undertaken by a Member of Indian Parliament from the Upper House, Government of India, Mrs. Vandana Chavan)

    My limited legislative experience exposed me to the issues surrounding regulation and governance. I saw the law from the law maker’s eyes and got an iota of an idea of the considerations that influence the law making process. The insights that I derived then, armed me with tremendous perspective on interpretation of laws and more importantly discerning the legislative intent.

     

    WHILE ATTENDING LAW SCHOOL, YOU ALSO TOOK THE INITIATIVE TO ATTEND SEVERAL WORKSHOPS AND TRAINING PROGRAMS. WHAT WAS YOUR MOTIVATION BEHIND PARTICIPATING IN THESE WORKSHOPS AND TRAINING PROGRAMS?

    My primary motivation behind attending these workshops and training programs (I collectively refer to them as “programs”) was to first gain industry insights and second build a professional network. I attended these programs at the Bombay Stock Exchange and Institute of Company Secretaries of India’s Centre for Corporate Governance Research and Training. These workshops largely covered the practical aspects of securities law, debt restructuring and banking law.

     

    YOU HAVE AN ENVIABLE TRACK RECORD OF EXTRACURRICULAR ACTIVITIES (BOTH WITHIN AND OUTSIDE LAW SCHOOL). HOW DID YOU KEEP A BALANCE BETWEEN EXTRACURRICULAR ACTIVITIES AND LEGAL STUDIES?

    (Pranav was a Core Committee Member of the Corporate Law Cell of Symbiosis Law School, a Pro Bono Legal Aid Volunteer for Helping Hands, a Non-Governmental Organization and the Founder& erstwhile President of the India Chapter of Network for International Law Students)

    When it comes to pursuing extra-curricular activities, time management is the key. One has to intelligently allocate his/her time to all activities that he/she intends to pursue. I used to keep a diary (and I still do) to plan and execute my itinerary for the day. This helped me to keep a track of my time and navigate my day smoothly. Extracurricular activities were a welcome break for me from my usual academic routine as a law student then. I saw it as an opportunity to network and step out of my comfort zone.

     

    YOU HAVE AN IMPRESSIVE RESEARCH PROFILE AS THE SAME IS EVIDENT FROM YOUR MULTIPLE PUBLICATIONS IN REPUTED LAW JOURNALS. WHAT ACCORDING TO YOU ARE THE MOST IMPORTANT ASPECTS OF AUTHORING RESEARCH PAPERS AND HOW DID THEY ACTUALLY HELP YOU IN YOUR CAREER?

    (Alongside publishing in reputed law journals such as Symbiosis Student Law Review, Plebs Journal of Law, International Journal of Legal Sciences and Research, World Journal on Juristic Polity, International Journal of Law and Legal Jurisprudence Studies and International Journal of Legal Research, you have also published three blog posts on the iPleaders Law Blog. Please comment as to whether any specific reason inspired you to write particularly for the named blog.)

    I believe that academic research is the best way to expand one’s understanding of a particular subject. It’s almost like completing a mini-Ph.D. on the subject. The hours that you spend doing literature review and empirical research refine your interpretation and research skills, something which all lawyers need irrespective of their field. Further, it helps you gain expertise in a particular sector; something which both employers and academic institutions appreciate. Lastly, it does add a line in the publications section of your CV. The best part, however, is the immense joy you feel if someone else cites or relies upon your research in his/her research. It makes you feel that your efforts have truly fructified.

    As far as my blog posts on the iPleaders Law Blog (“Blog”) are concerned, I chose to publish my blog posts on the Blog because of its fantastic readership and subscription. The quality of blogposts that are published on the Blog is of a superior quality and practically relevant. Further, in the light of the market standing of I-Pleaders, any association with them is certainly beneficial. Hence, I chose the Blog to publish my articles.

     

    WHAT PROMPTED YOU TO FOUND A JOURNAL SPECIFICALLY FOCUSING ON COMMERCIAL LAW?

    (Pranav has founded the law journal International Commercial Law Review while managing his job at the same time as well as secured top legal professionals and academicians to be part of the Advisory Board of the Journal.)

    Peer contribution provides tremendous insights and fresh perspective. This has been my primary motivation behind founding the ICLR. I look at ICLR as a platform where one can put forth his/her ideas and at the same time get recognised for the value additions that he/she makes. Lastly, legal editing has always been a pleasure and a privilege for me. The kind of intellectual enrichment one gets through legal editing (or any type of editing for that matter) cannot be reduced to words.

     

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    YOU HAVE ALSO RECENTLY AUTHORED A BOOK TITLED COMMENTARY ON THE INSOLVENCY AND BANKRUPTCY CODE, 2016 (DECODING THE LAW OF INSOLVENCY AND BANKRUPTCY) WHICH IS THE FIRST BOOK IN INDIA ON THIS SUBJECT. PLEASE COMMENT ON THAT.

    I had been following the Insolvency and Bankruptcy Code, 2016 (“Code”) since it was a Bill as I knew that this Code would be a complete game changer once implemented. While I did not have any ambition to set a record by writing the first book on the Code, I will say that it happened rather intermittently. So, once the Code was passed by the Parliament (i.e. on 11th May 2016), I foresaw a demand for some intellectual material on the Code (since you cannot rely only on the Bare Act). Before I undertook the task of penning the book, I made some enquiries myself. I asked around if any book has come up or whether any book is coming up to which everybody replied in the negative. So, that’s where the thought to pen the book set in. I thought that if nobody had written or was writing a book on the Code then why could I not do it myself. At least, that way, I knew I was setting a foundation by providing some literature on the Code for everyone’s benefit. This was my impetus to penning the book.

    I penned this book while being employed at my erstwhile workplace. Managing my job and penning the book was indeed a task for me. I had to comply with the publication deadline and underperforming at work or taking a leave from office wasn’t an option that I had kept open for myself. So, I burnt the midnight oil. I mean literally. To be honest, there were several occasions while penning the book when I did not know as to where I was headed or what my effort would result into. I had to sacrifice time with family and friends. This caused a lot of upheaval and discontent amongst them. I still persisted nevertheless as I knew I had to comply with the publication deadline come what may. Then came a time when I let go all worry and anxiety with respect to the result and thought of focusing only on penning the book and more importantly the content. I realized deeply that I can only control my inputs and not the result. I was mentally prepared to face both praise and humiliation with respect to my book. Thankfully, it was received well and it got decent reviews.

     

    WHAT ACCORDING TO YOU SHOULD A LAW STUDENT CONCENTRATE ON DURING HIS/ HER TIME IN LAW SCHOOL IN ORDER TO BECOME A GOOD LEGAL PROFESSIONAL AFTER GRADUATING FROM LAW SCHOOL?

    A law student’s first priority in law school should be to find a practice area at the earliest. I have earlier in this interview enlisted the criteria one should consider while zeroing down on a practice area. Once you have identified your practice area, 50% of your job is done. The remaining 50% of your job is to refine your knowledge and skills with respect to the practice area of your choice. Second, time management is the way ahead. I have seen many law students (including many of my batch mates) totally waste their time doing counter-productive activities. While I do not judge them, as it is a matter of personal choice, I do say that what you sow is what you reap (cause and effects). The law is infallible. You can’t do the same thing over and over again and expect different results. Third, learn to look at the larger picture. I have seen many law students remain stuck up over trivial things and completely miss out the larger scheme of things which is nothing but their own long term career interests.

     

    AFTER GRADUATING, YOU COMPLETED THE ENTIRE LEGAL COMPLIANCE MODULE OFFERED BY THE NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF SECURITIES MARKETS. WHAT PROMPTED YOU TO ENROLL FOR THIS AND HOW DID YOU MANAGE TO CLEAR THIS MODULE IN THE FIRST ATTEMPT WHILE MANAGING YOUR JOB?

    Commercial law does not operate in isolation. There are several other areas of law and finance that intersect. In order to bring about a more balanced approach while pursuing a career in commercial law, I chose to pursue the legal compliance module offered by the National Institute of Securities Markets (NISM). Pursuing the module gave me exposure to the legal and financial compliances applicable to the issuers and the intermediaries in the securities markets. You don’t have to be super intelligent to clear the NISM examination. All that it takes is preparation and practice. I used to study over the weekends and appear for mock examinations during the weekdays (before and after office hours at home).

     

    YOU RECENTLY CLEARED THE ALL INDIA BAR EXAMINATION (AIBE). WHILE PREPARING FOR THE SAME, YOU ALSO ENROLLED FOR THE BARHACKER PROGRAM OFFERED BY iPLEADERS. HOW WAS YOUR EXPERIENCE WITH BARHACKER? WOULD YOU RECOMMEND IT TO OTHER AIBE ASPIRANTS?

    Many people assume that since the All India Bar Examination (AIBE) is an open book exam, it can be cleared without any preparation. In reality, it’s otherwise. Although the AIBE is an open book exam, people often forget that it is a time bound examination and most of the questions that are asked are application based rather than being direct. Also, the syllabus is vast. For e.g. in the AIBE that I appeared in i.e. AIBE IX, the Environmental Law component was valued for only 5 marks. What this actually meant was all that acts, rules and regulations covered under the Indian Environmental Law would carry 5 marks out of which the Bar Council of India can ask a question on anything and I mean anything under the scope and ambit of Indian Environmental Law. Like this, there were other areas of law that more or less carried proportionate weightage in the paper except for Cr.P.C and Contract Law (which are again vast subjects). Statistically speaking, about 37% candidates failed the AIBE in 2012. So, it certainly isn’t an easy examination. Like any other competitive exam, you need to prepare and practice over and over again in order to crack it in the first attempt.

    Many newbie lawyers who join the legal profession get caught up with office work which leaves them with no time to prepare for the exam. That’s exactly where a course like BarHacker adds value. The course has a result oriented approach and team iPleaders ensures that you are equipped with the best tools to clear this exam. If you religiously follow their tips, techniques and study methods, chances are that you will clear the AIBE in the first attempt. I give full credit to BarHacker for my AIBE result and, yes, I recommend this course to all AIBE aspirants.

     

    WHAT FINAL PIECE OF ADVICE DO YOU WANT TO PASS ON TO THE READERS?

    Believe in yourself and make the most out of every moment. Use your time wisely and never lose sight of your goals.