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  • Shreenivas Raju, Associate, Shardul Amarchand Mangaldas, on corporate and commercial law as a field of profession

    Shreenivas Raju, Associate, Shardul Amarchand Mangaldas, on corporate and commercial law as a field of profession

    Shreenivas graduated from Loyola College, Chennai with a degree in B.Com (Hons.) and went on to pursue law from the Cardiff Law School, UK. Currently working as an Associate at the Chennai office of Shardul Amarchand Mangaldas and Co, he specializes in Corporate and Commercial Laws which according to him is also the field he aims to excel in as a lawyer. He has worked at reputed firms like Dua Associates, OSC Services Private Limited and Global Law Alliance, Singapore.

    In this interview he shares his views about –

    • Working in Indian Law firms
    • How different is Indian education system from other education systems
    • His life at Cardiff Law School
    • About His inspiration in his father
    • How Cardiff was his formative time
    • Lessons law students keep in mind before doing internships

     

    How would you introduce yourself, given that most of our readers are law aspirants, lawyers-in-the-making & young lawyers?

    I am Shreenivas, and I currently work as an Associate at Shardul Amarchand Mangaldas and Co.’s Chennai office. Yes, I am a Lawyer, but since you say that most of your readers are lawyers, friends of lawyers or law students, I’d frankly say that I’m not that well connected with the legal circle here, since I’m a non-Chennai boy; although I would also add that I have been working in Chennai for the past 3 and a half years and am getting to know my colleagues and fellow legal professionals from other firms / practices in Chennai better, and I don’t consider that to be a disadvantage / obstacle that will hinder my aspirations to become a great lawyer someday.

     

    What interest or influence propelled you to pursue law as a career? What other options were you considering apart from law and how did you make the final decision?

    When I completed my schooling, i.e., after my Std. XII board exams in May 2000, I was discussing my academic future with my father, and at that time, to be very honest with you, I was very passionate about Economics. In fact, I still am, and I guess I always will be. It is a fire inside me that will never die. So, at that time, since I had scored excellent marks in Economics in my board exams, my aim was to study and thereafter pursue Economics as a career, which, to this day, remains an unattained dream of mine. I even applied to Shri Ram College of Commerce in New Delhi, St. Xavier’s College in Mumbai, and other prestigious institutions across India, all for the B.A. Economics degree, but my father was of the opinion that a career in Economics wasn’t worth much – he felt that the only thing one could possibly achieve by studying economics is probably aim for the Nobel prize, and then basically live off research grants for the rest of his / her life in order to carry out research and compile theses. So he was not very supportive of my choice, and told me that the only option I had was to pursue a strong commerce or accountancy undergraduate degree, i.e., a Bachelor of Commerce (B.Com) degree from a reputed institution that would provide me with a thorough understanding of and exposure to the fundamental principles of commerce, business and accountancy, which would thereafter give me more clarity and focus in deciding the relevant field in which I wanted to forge a career in. He said that I could keep in touch with economics as a passion on the side if I wanted to, but that was that, and I had to stick to the aforesaid course of action. Initially, I was adamant about pursuing economics since I had offers from the afore named institutions and others, but my father never relented (even going to the extent of saying that it was either his way or the highway, since he would be the one paying for my education…!).

    So I was left with no choice but to take up the B. Com (with Honours) degree at Loyola College, Chennai. Luckily, the modules that I studies across my three years at Loyola included a module in Economics, as well as the usual modules in Financial Accounting and other fields of accounting – so, I was able to keep in touch with economics for a while during my B.Com degree. Before I knew it, three years had almost come to pass, and my father then wanted me to become a Chartered Accountant just like him. He had been a practicing Chartered Accountant for almost 23 years at that time, and his idea was that his firm / practice was already there, ready to be taken over and run by me. What he didn’t know was that I had realized very early into my B. Com degree, that I did not possess the passion and the flair for accountancy that he had. I knew that I could never do justice to this profession if I chose to become a Chartered Accountant because I didn’t have the drive. In my opinion, passion for whatever it is that one does in life is paramount in order to excel in that field– for me, there was no better example for this at that time than my father himself, a man born into a rural, agricultural family in the Badaga tribal community, who fled to erstwhile Bombay in order to pursue his dream of higher education, and ended up becoming the first ever Chartered Accountant from the his tribal community. He is a completely self-made man whose real-life rags-to-riches story would require an entirely separate interview from me to explain, and, I completely dedicate everything I have accomplished in my life today to him.  So I made this very clear to him towards the end of my B. Com degree, and told him that I wished to pursue something that I was passionate about. My father agreed to me pursuing anything I wanted but for economics and that was when I expressed an interest in pursuing a career in law. That piqued his interest as well and we sat down to discuss the options available. During the course of our discussion, he expressed a view that while the traditional law career involved qualifying and enrolling as a Barrister / Advocate with the Bar Council of India and then practicing in a court of law of one’s choosing he wanted me to explore the option of specializing in commercial or corporate law which, he thought was a fast-developing field of law with tremendous potential. One of his personal quotes which comes to my mind – “a chartered accountant is practically three-fourths a lawyer at most times…”, and being a voracious reader of the Economic Times and other business publications and magazines, made me honestly  believe that he was genuinely onto something, and so we decided that I should pursue a career in commercial / corporate law. This also seemed to make sense to me at that time since I already had a fundamental understanding of the accounting because of my undergraduate program, which I could tie in with a law degree (with specialization in commercial / corporate law modules) and thereby forge a successful career in commercial / corporate law. Even today, when I look back, I believe it was the right decision – a small example to emphasize this would be some of the transactions that I work on in my career today which involve dealing with or scrutinizing financial statements of a corporate entity – to me, these are not just accounting numbers or data, because I am aware of the underlying accounting principles behind such statements, and how the observations from a scrutiny of such statements, can be incorporated or highlighted, as and when required, in a due diligence report or a key transaction document.

     

    Tell us about your childhood and pre-college life? Was it always a dream to be in legal profession? If not what did you want to be? Who was your role-model?

    I have very fond memories of my childhood; it was a wonderful childhood spent mostly in Ooty and Coimbatore, where I studied at the best schools and my parents made sure that I never lacked anything. In terms of what I wanted to be when I grew up, the list is a long one – I wanted to be a police officer, a soldier in the Army…I even wanted to be Jackie Chan…!!! Till today, I’m a huge martial arts fan, and I still love and revere Jackie Chan. By the time I reached eighth / ninth grade at school though, I was completely smitten by Cricket…by the way; I’m a born cricket fanatic. I was born on June 25, 1983, the day India won the Prudential World Cup at the Lords Cricket Ground in London. My father kept a picture of me as a newborn baby alongside a picture of Kapil Dev holding aloft the famous trophy at Lords in our house.

     

    So yes, I was completely besotted by the game and I was playing for my School and really wanted to become a cricketer. But then again, that was a completely no-go with my father, and so was never ever possible. As I had mentioned earlier, thereafter, it was only about economics and I never contemplated the idea of becoming a lawyer while at school. In terms of role models, my cricketing inspirations were Kapil Dev, Sachin Tendulkar and Anil Kumble, and in terms of academics and a career professional, my inspiration was, is and always will be my father.

     

    You did your schooling, senior secondary and bachelors degree in india. Why did you select Cardiff Law School among others?

    Once my father and I had decided that law was the destination, we discussed the possible options where I could study law, and surprisingly my father and I were on the same page that to get the best possible education in law, the most appropriate place would be the place where the law was created, the country of the Magna Carta, which is the United Kingdom.

    So, why Cardiff?  Well, I did apply to other universities including Oxford, London School of Economics, and Kings College, London, as well as Cardiff. I did get through to the aforesaid institutions and   got offer letters from all of them. However, we realized that studying at the  these institutions would be an extremely costly affair – furthermore, despite being a top student in my school  and  college days (I was a gold medalist in Business Mathematics and Income Tax Law & Practice at Loyola College), scholarship offers weren’t easy to procure at all. Around the same time, we met one of our family friends whose son had studied at Cardiff and went on to procure LL.M degree from Oxford and qualified as a Solicitor after doing the Legal Practice Course (LPC) from Nottingham. He subsequently joined as an Associate in Freshfields Bruckhaus Deringer (one of the famed Magic Circle Law Firms based in London).. We also came to know that Cardiff University was a part of the Russell’s Group (i.e., the top twenty Universities in the United Kingdom) and that Cardiff Law School was not only amongst the top ten law schools of the United Kingdom but Cardiff itself was a very vibrant and a student friendly city providing great and economic education. So, we settled on Cardiff.

     

    Tell us about your experience at cardiff law school, Cardiff University? How would you describe your academic life at Cardiff? What curricular and extracurricular activities did you participate while in university?

    In my opinion, although the B. Com (Hons.) degree that I did at Loyola was my first undergraduate degree, the six and a half years that I spent in Cardiff (completing both my LL.B. Law (Hons.) degree and my LL.M in International Commercial Law (Masters) degree) were the true formative years of my life. I believe that, during that time, I truly discovered who I was as an individual and the extent of my capabilities and skills for which I have to thank my father for that opportunity. When you study abroad, you will notice that the differences in attitude, culture, the system of education, the system of assessment, etc. For example, the relationship between the teacher and the student – it is a relationship built on informality and trust – to this day, I cannot recall a single instance where I’ve addressed my professors / tutors as “Sir” or “Ma’am”…it was always on a first name basis, and for a new international student like me, it was as instant ice-breaker, which allowed us to be more open and frank in our interactions with our teachers, unlike in India, where certain boundaries are established immediately between the teacher and student, which, in my opinion, hamper the scope for an honest, inclusive and objective relationship during college life.

    The LL.B course was very rigorous and was delivered to students by way of lectures and tutorials (similar to group discussions). Lectures ran for five days a week between 8:00am and 3:00pm, sometimes extending later into the evenings as well, with tutorials happening everyday wherein the topics taught at the specific day’s lectures would be discussed and studied in further detail. This was a refreshing change for me from the lectures-only model that I came from in India, since the tutorial sessions were aimed at improving our understanding and consequently our application of the law. The tutorial sessions also formed a great method to revise that day’s lessons on that day itself. However, we were also required to spend quality time in the law library everyday carrying out our own independent research and supplementing the lecture study material with our own notes. All this was very different from what I had experienced in India where I would go back home after college and just complete any assignments / work given for the next day by the teachers, and when the time came to prepare for class tests or exams, all I had to do was to ensure that I committed the entire syllabus to memory (i.e., ‘mugging up’ or ‘ratta maarofy’ in Indian college lingo). Another aspect of the tutorial sessions that I enjoyed was the fact that we learned the law and developed our understanding of the law based on discussions where no one would be openly declared right or wrong – it was through interaction and open deliberations with classmates, which enabled us to develop perspective on different opinions, and to apply that perspective in our understanding of the law. In terms of assessment, we were examined by way of a mixture of exams and coursework / essays to assess your understanding, your analytical abilities, and most importantly, your understanding of the law, rather than just the strength of your memory.

    One of the most important aspects of education in the United Kingdom (and by extension, the western world) is the concept of the prevention of Plagiarism, which forms an integral part of the educational system here. This is again a very unique concept that any and every Indian student, who wishes to pursue his / her education in the UK, would do well to familiarize themselves with. The significance of plagiarism is extremely critical for every student to know, because plagiarism will not only make you liable to be failed in your degree as a whole or to be expelled from university, but it is a civil and criminal offence under the laws of the United Kingdom. The software that is used across the top universities in the United Kingdom is practically foolproof and there is no way of bypassing it. Luckily though, the top universities in the United Kingdom offer mandatory sessions on Plagiarism during their student induction sessions for international students at the start of the academic year, and so we were well-informed of its implications at the very outset.

    From a social and extra-curricular activities perspective, I was involved in various student community and local community initiatives from the Second year of my LL.B degree. During that time, I set up an Indian students’ society called YUVA – Youth of India, which went on to become the biggest Indian/ Asian student community in Cardiff and in Wales. The circumstances which led me to create the society were varied – (a) I, and many of my fellow students, had a very tough first year at Cardiff with nobody to assist or offer any support (the Indian students who had already been there for a while would never come forward to help the newbies and we were always left to fend for ourselves even at times when we needed help); (b) the Indian students studying at Cardiff University was the only student community which did not have any kind of representation through which they could present their grievances / issues to the University authorities; (c) there was no one to initiate the new students and help them to adapt to the change in culture, educational system, etc.; and (d) there was no scope for the organization of any social activities to help Indian students meet and to help them overcome homesickness, etc. I wanted to ensure that no Indian student coming to Cardiff would ever have to ever go through what I went through in my first year, which is why I approached the Cardiff University Students’ Union and created YUVA. It started out as more of a liaison between the University and its Indian students, both current and potential students. From there, YUVA began organizing events / parties for popular Indian festivals such as Diwali and Holi, which included parties, temple trips and Hindi movie-screenings at discounted rates in the local multiplexes for Indian students. Membership of the society was not restricted to Indians alone – our aim was to give the entire student community at Cardiff University a taste of Indian culture, and so we had many students of other nationalities, including Americans, Greek, English / Welsh, and Europeans. After a point in time, our events were considered “must-go-to” and during my time as President from 2004-2009, we hosted some of the biggest events in the student calendar, including our Diwali Bash in 2008, which was covered in the University’s newspaper “Gair Rhydd”, and also covered live on radio by BBC Radio Asia. Another highlight was the annual cricket match that we would organize between Indian Students and Pakistani Students during the summer every year – this cricket fixture became an annual favourite and always generated tremendous banter and camaraderie between Indian and Pakistani students, and generated a lot of buzz in the student community as a whole. All of the above led to YUVA Youth of India being declared one of the best student societies at Cardiff University, and I was voted the Best Student Society President in 2008 for my efforts.

    Other than the above. I also had the chance to pursue my greatest passion in life, i.e., Cricket, to the fullest, during my time at Cardiff. I was part of the University Cricket Team from 2004-2008, and even had the distinction of being the Captain of the team for a couple of seasons. In addition, I was also playing for a local city-based team named Cardiff Gymkhana Cricket Club in the Welsh Club Conference League, where I was also initially vice-captain and thereafter captain of the team. I also made it possible for Indian students coming to Cardiff to be able to join the aforesaid cricket league and play cricket in the summer during their time at Cardiff.

    In light of all the above, I was awarded the “Honour Roll” award by the University in 2007 – the first Indian student to receive the award in the University’s 127-year history, which subsequently led to me being chosen to represent the University at a Royal Garden Tea Party held at Buckingham Palace in July 2007, and at a State Assembly Dinner hosted by the First Minister, Rhodri Morgan AM, at the Welsh Senate – It is for these reasons why I consider my time at Cardiff University the absolute zenith of my academic and personal life so far.

     

     

    What all differences did you notice between the Indian form of education and that of abroad?

    Like I explained, I believe that, today, the Indian educational system has come a long way from its earlier avatar – this I have gleaned from my interactions with my fellow colleagues, peers and juniors. From these interactions, I understand that law courses in India are more analytical today in top institutions such as NALSAR and the National Law Schools / Universities, and as rigorous as courses in the UK and the West. At the time when I was a college student in India, as I’ve mentioned before, one major aspect of education in India was that education here was practically a test of memory power. In contrast, during my days at Cardiff, I would say 95% of the modules that I studied during the course of my LL.B and LL.M degrees had only one ‘essay’ question which was probably worth ten or twenty marks at the max – the rest were all problem questions designed to test your analytical abilities and application of the law that you have studies .This was the biggest difference, along with the plagiarism aspect that I had discussed earlier. I understand that prevention of Plagiarism is also being enforced strictly in many colleges and universities in India today.

     

    What internships and voluntary practical training did you take while in law school? What value addition did they provide to you in your career?

    In UK, there were many autumn and summer placement / internships that were available to students, but initially I did not partake any of them because of the rigorous nature of my LL.B course. During the course of my three year LL.B, I did not attend even a single internship or summer workshop for the first two years because of the course and the preparatory course work for the next years. The only internship that I did during that time was  in the summer break at the end of my first year when I returned to India  at M/s. Udwadia and Udeshi in Mumbai for a month. During the course of that internship, I was just accompanying the senior lawyers to the court carrying files, taking dictations, typing out affidavits, case notes, etc., carrying out case law research and offering assistance in any other manner requested. So in terms of value addition, it wasn’t a huge takeaway but it did give me a feel of what it would be like to be a part of a law firm.  . And if not anything else, I definitely felt the buzz of being around senior lawyers and associates.

    When I came to Chennai for the first time, I approached Dua Associates for a job, but instead they offered me an internship as I was yet to be enrolled with the Bar on an understanding that they will offer me the post of Associate based on my performance during the internship and once the enrolment has been accomplished. The internship was intense and lasted for almost three months and was probably the only meaningful internship that I had taken up  because, during that time, even though I was an intern, I was doing all the jobs a junior associate was supposed to do including working on legal opinions, case law research,  corporate and title due diligence exercises.  In the firm, I started under the supervision of the Corporate partner, Mr. R. Senthil Kumar, and thereafter the supervision of the Real Estate Partner, Mr. P.V. Sajiv Kumar.w I am grateful for that experience because it gave me the first real taste of corporate law and real estate law, and what it feels like to be a  part of a reputed corporate law firm, and helped me in  preparing myself for what I hope will turn out be a fruitful and meaningful legal career.

     

    What kind of internships would you recommend law students opt for to start building the sort of versatility and widened range of law that you are well versed with today?

    Probably the wrong question for me to be asked, as I’ve already pointed out that I have very limited legal internship experience in India. But from my interactions with peers, colleagues and juniors, I believe that one must not have a fixed mindset when they start fresh out of law school – at that time, generally, in the name of being focused, law graduated are already intent on specializing in a particular field of law and try to obtain internships that will satisfy that aim. In this regard, I would like to quote a senior partner for whom I’ve had the privilege to work with and to learn from – at the start of my career and at many instances subsequently, he told me that as an aspiring lawyer fresh out of law school, you must start with an internship in litigation. Being a corporate lawyer myself, to be honest, I know that people will be surprised by me saying this, but I do believe that the best way to start off is with litigation, because that’s the only way one will get a feeling for how law and the justice system in our country actually works. Transaction work can be learnt at the office from senior associates or by even attending training sessions, but what really happens in a court of law, the associated protocols, the application of the laws and statutes of the land, can only be understood and assimilated when you go to court, while interning under a practicing lawyer / advocate or barrister. It doesn’t matter whether it is a higher court or a lower court, start wherever you can and then go from there. Once you start going to all the big firms, there also the longer internship you get, the better. It is not in your hands.  It is pointless to have an internship for name sake rather the progression in every internship should be carried to the next one. You are going for the internship to get something out of it, right, make sure it counts. Don’t just go for an internship for that you can put a list of internships on your CV to make it look impressive. Try to have some continuity in your internship learning, even though they might be at different firms.

     

    Could you please tell us the role you played there and the challenges did you face during your initial days of practice?

     (Shreenivas was an integral part at Clifford Chance LLP, where he was involved in the leading acquisition of Kraft Food’s acquisition of Cadbury and several other international transactions between HSBC, Barclays and Standard Chartered Bank etc.)

    This was during my time as a Senior Consultant with OSC Services Private Limited, which is the captive Legal Process Outsourcing (LPO) unit of Clifford Chance LLP, located in Gurgaon, where, at the time of my employment, they had a team of, approximately 40 qualified Indian lawyers, whose role was assist lawyers and associates working for Clifford Chance LLP, a British law firm with a international presence cross border they do, with day-to-day transactional work. It is the world’s largest law firm which operates in about 60 countries right now. So, our job was to offer transactional assistance to lawyers across all the countries in their offices located in cities such as London, New York, Dubai, Singapore, Brussels, etc. There was hardly any challenge for me during my time there, as I had to work on British law aspects, and I was already competent in British law. The challenge was getting to learn all these transactional support work such as proofing of documents (for context and sanity), defined-terms checks, cross-reference checks, etc., which were primarily secretarial / clerical in nature. So the challenge at that time was in bringing me to do such kind of work, knowing fully well that I was a qualified lawyer and yet, I had to do work of a clerical nature, which had nothing to do with legal analysis and reasoning most of the time.

    For most of my time at OSC, as a Senior Consultant, I was called upon to be part of the diligence or drafting teams on most transactions. The acquisition of Cadbury was probably the biggest transaction that I’ve worked on so far for the obvious reason that it was the biggest deal of its kind in the industry at that time. We had different teams from multiple Clifford Chance offices across the world working on it simultaneously. My role was being part of the team that carried out diligence reviews of certain assets owned by Cadbury and creating a database that would list the said assets and the related details, which would subsequently be used as a key reference during the transaction documentation stage. The other transactions that I worked on were primarily in the Debt Capital Markets space for clients such as HSBC, Barclays, UBS, etc., who were all legacy clients of Clifford Chance LLP who were regularly involved in deals involving the issue of global definitive notes, and other instruments frequently used in debt capital market transactions.

     

    You have witnessed the operational style of law firms of different nations. What is your review on the working style of Indian law firms?

    While working in a foreign law firm, again, the firm culture and the work ethic are completely different. From my limited knowledge and experience, as well as from personal interactions with many foreign legal professionals during my time at Clifford Chance and Global Law Alliance LLC, I have noticed that there is a culture of accountability and responsibility – from the Partner to a Junior Associate, every person is held accountable and responsible for their actions, from the start of a transaction to its end. Associates are nurtured and made to feel a part of the transaction team from the very beginning, where they are sometimes taken along with the lead partner and the principal associates to a meeting where the firm is pitching to a potential client, and the Associate is encouraged to make a part of the pitch and thereby contribute – this goes a long way in boosting the confidence of associates and also takes them on a valuable learning curve where their perspective of the transaction starts at its very inception and ends when the transaction closes.

     

    Could you please tell us about your experience in the Global Law Alliance LLC, Singapore ?

    (Sreenivas was associated as a para legal at Global Law Alliance LLC, Singapore)

    Global Law Alliance in Singapore, I think, was a five to six month stint. It was different from my prior experiences because it was an absolute litigation firm primarily dealing with small as well as large litigation cases relating to tort law, accident liability, insurance claims, etc. For me, the take away from GLA was limited as I practically had no experience whatsoever in the kind of work they were pursuing, and because I had to hit the ground running and make good on deliverables with absolutely no prior training whatsoever. Additionally, I felt burnt out on many occasions during my time at GLA, because the deadlines were too intense and also because of the hectic work schedule in Singapore (which has a general six day working week, and in my case, which became a seven day week for the entirety of my stint there, and therefore meant absolutely no work-life balance). It was definitely not my cup of tea although I did enjoy occasionally going to court and observing the proceedings in some of the cases there. And, to be honest, I left it because I didn’t learn much in those six months and I felt that I was only going backward in my legal career.

     

    Tell us about your experience at Dua Associates Chennai and Cyril Amarchand Mangaldas Chennai and the work profile you were entrusted with.

    Dua Associates was my first official law-firm / associate role – as I mentioned earlier. I started there with the General Corporate practice headed by Mr. R. Senthil Kumar and was there for a period of three to four months, before moving to the Real Estate Practice headed by Mr. P.V. Sajiv Kumar, where I worked for the remainder of my time with the firm, i.e. around one year and three months. Again, as mentioned earlier, I believe that my time with Dua Associates was a steep learning curve for me and it was there that I really cut my teeth as a lawyer.  Today, my primary field is Real Estate / Real Estate Financing at SAMCO, and was my primary field at CAM as well. The foundation for this was laid at Dua Associates. It was quite an intimidating time for me since Dua Associates had, and continues to have till this day, a very well respected Chennai practice headed by the afore named senior lawyers which retains the confidence and trust of a formidable clientele.

    From there, I moved to CAM, where my work profile again involved a mixture of general corporate, real estate / real estate financing and a little bit of capital markets work. The general corporate aspect involved working primarily on corporate due diligence reviews and preparing legal opinions on various regulatory aspect, whereas the real estate component involved carrying out of detailed title due diligence reviews and the drafting / preparation of transaction documentation for real-estate financing transactions (in most cases, for the issuance of non-convertible / optionally convertible debentures).

     

    What prompted you to shift to the elite Indian law firms? How did your experience there differ from your earlier experiences?

    Well, what prompted my move to the elite Indian law firms is that I realized that I always wanted to be a lawyer and an associate working for a proper law firm. And when I returned from Singapore in 2013, I was already 30 and I realized that I had to move ahead to something. I joined Dua and the difference between the previous thing was that it was an LPO, the work experience is discounted wherever I go and LPO is different from a corporate kind of thing and it is more of corporate experience because of my own specific skill set, I was exposed to the legal side of things and it was a glorified back office. You’re a processor and not a lawyer and this is the biggest difference. I am a lawyer now and I was a processor then.

     

    Why the special interest in corporate laws and commercial laws with a special focus on commercial contracts, real estate & real-estate, financing, corporate governance, due diligence, regulatory & compliance?

    As I had mentioned earlier, that had been my idea all along. I did my B.Com (Hons.) and my law degrees (with my Masters being in Commercial Law) with a view to specializing in corporate / commercial law. However, I must admit that, when I started my education at Cardiff, I wasn’t aware of the true breadth of fields and practice areas under the ambit of corporate law / commercial law. It was only after I completed my LL.M. and during my subsequent stint at OSC Services that I realized that there was so many practice areas which one could be involved in. Subsequently, from my work experience with various firms, I have learnt, and continue to learn to this day, the nuances of the Corporate and the commercial field. in which I retain a special interest and wish to excel as a lawyer in this fields.

     

    What were the challenges you faced in shaping up your career as it stands today and where do you see yourself ten years from now?

    One of the biggest challenges I faced currently is keeping the fire burning inside me consistently. There are times when I get bogged down due to external and internal factors, and this is something that I am working on. Sometimes, I slip into a line of thinking that I am not where I should be right now in terms of what I have achieved in my career. I feel that I am probably three or four years behind from where I should actually be. Other than that, for me, keeping up with the ever-evolving nature of the corporate space in India and the related acts / statutes / laws, and learning how to customize the advice that we render to our clients in the current volatility of Indian markets is a key challenge. In the legal profession, it is imperative to stay at the top of your game at all times, and this means servicing the clients’ needs in the most efficient and proficient manner. For this, it is necessary to go above and beyond the call of duty and herein lays the challenge – of challenging yourself to be the best at what you do and to continually grow. Although, I also believe (as my father once told me) that the day you think you’re the best at something is the day you make the biggest mistake of your life. It is very important to acknowledge that we work in a profession where the learning never stops, and that there is always someone who is better than you and it is even more important to aspire to be as knowledgeable and as good as that person. So, therein lays the challenge- To continually learn with the same level of enthusiasm and the same level of commitment that you displayed in your younger years and not let money and any / all other internal and external factors come in the way of you becoming the best lawyer that you can be.

    Where do I see myself ten years from now? Well, I’m not the type who plans that far ahead to be honest. But I will say one thing in this regard the place where I’d ideally want to be in ten years is the following situation – at that time, if a client (on a transaction that I may be assisting the said client with) wakes up in the middle of the night or has been breaking his head all night over some legality or issue that may adversely affect the said transaction, and the said client is at their wit’s end as to how this can be resolved, then they should pick up the phone and call my number first. I want be that good a lawyer and should have earned the trust of my client to the extent that they should believe that I am the only person who can help them –  I want to be the first point of contact, the first resort for every client of mine, rather than the last resort, If I get to that place in ten years’ time, I’ll say-Mission Accomplished!

     

    What do you want to say to the next generation lawyers? What is your parting message to our readers?

    My message to young, aspiring lawyers (as well as aspiring law students) is that nothing comes easy in life…you have to put in the hard yards….especially in this profession.

    As a wizened legal eagle once told me, the legal profession is not a sprint, it’s a marathon. In a marathon, the eventual winner will be the one who conserves his energy, learns about his opponents, sees how they are running and sees the mistakes they are making, formulates a plan for the long run ahead, puts his head down and executes the plan with dedication and commitment, and then unleashes himself down the home stretch and leaves all his opponents behind. Similarly, the legal profession is like a marathon where you cannot expect to be successful overnight. It takes years of learning, practice and efforts to make it big as a lawyer and there’s no second way about it…!!!

    The Legal industry in India today is a burgeoning and cutthroat world where, if you’re not in for the long haul, then you’re on your way out before you know it…!!! The amount of law graduates being churned out of the law schools every year is increasing and there are hundreds of quality law graduates out there, and you are in competition with every single one of them. So, the stakes couldn’t be any higher.

    Be patient and willing to put into the hard yards…and never think that you are entitled to anything. In this profession you have to earn your stripes through dedication, learning and hard work, while also not compromising on your personal and professional integrity. And the most important thing to remember when you start as a lawyer is that your journey has just begun…be willing to learn first and then apply that learning…don’t worry about the money…give yourself a solid 2-3 years to build a good foundation  based on learning and application…be your best and the money will come automatically.

     

    Good Luck and God Bless!

  • Nidhishree Venugopal, Independent Practitioner, on building a career in litigation

    Nidhishree Venugopal, Independent Practitioner, on building a career in litigation

    Nidhishree Venugopal graduated from the University Law College, Bengaluru in the year 2005 and has been practicing as an Advocate before the Trial Courts, High Court of Karnataka and various other forums within and outside the State, ever since. She is a gold medalist and rank holder of the batch of 2005 across Bangalore University. Additionally, she has a post graduate diploma in Intellectual Property laws from the National Law School of India University, Bengaluru and a post graduate diploma in Media Laws from the National Academy of Legal Studies and Research, Hyderabad.

    She has an independent law practice that focuses mainly on civil, constitutional and commercial cases. These include matters relating to constitutional law, civil law, company law, arbitration, intellectual property, contracts & tenders, employment law, succession, etc. She is on the panel of the Karnataka State Legal Services Authority, High Court of Karnataka and a visiting faculty at COMMITS Institute of Journalism & Mass Communication teaching post graduate students Constitution and Media Law.

     

    In this interview she talks to us about:

    • What should a law student do to shape up his profile for litigation?
    • Necessity of a mentor or guide to handhold a young lawyer.
    • Her experience when she appeared in the court for the first time.
    • Difficulties faced in the early days of practice.

     

    What prompted you to think of law as a career?

    As I finished school, I gravitated towards writing and journalism. I contributed regularly to the youth pages of the Indian Express and the Times of India. I was a reporter for a couple of years at a local fortnightly magazine called ‘Nagar Life’. I applied and got accepted to the Communicative English graduate program in Mount Carmel College. Just a three year ‘B.A.’ did not seem like a strong enough degree to hold its own and I settled on law as a ‘safe’ option, with a 5 year ‘B.A.L., LL.B’, which sounded more robust to me, at that time. I also thought I could do a masters in journalism and switch streams, at a later point, if need be. So, law happened as a safety measure!

     

    How were your years in college? Did your study prepare you in any way for real life practice in courts?

    My batch was the last batch of ULC that had its campus in the heart of Gandhinagar, Bengaluru. Attendance was not too stringent and I made the most of it. I worked part-time with my drama teacher from school, going to various schools in the city, teaching them drama techniques. I was part of a student organization AIESEC, which is an international student exchange programme run exclusively by students. I mooted right from the first year to my final year. I did only two internships in college and both lasted a year. I interned with Poovayya & Co. in my fourth year and with Mr. Aditya Sondhi, Advocate (as he was then), in my final year. These internships were quasi-jobs, travelling beyond research and Court visits. I guess, it helped that I stayed on beyond a month (as is the regular tenure of an internship), making it easier for both to entrust me with more than piece-meal work.

    The syllabus that one studies does not exactly prepare one for practice in Courts. This was the case then, I suspect it is the case even now. We had practical subjects such as client counseling, moot court and court visit in our fourth and final year, which was not sufficient exposure, in my opinion. But then, Court is a different beast. No amount of theory/ academic inputs can prepare one for actual practice. Every day is different.

    How did you decide to pursue litigation? Were you considering any other opportunities?

    In college, I briefly thought of getting into corporate law. Both my internships were litigation internships. A month before my final year exams, I decided to stop interning, to study. On the last day of my internship, I asked Mr. Sondhi if he would consider offering me a position in his chambers. He said yes, my decision to litigate was made. Whether this decision was something I would stick by, was not clear to me, at that point.

    I told myself that I would give litigation a year and move to the corporate side if it did not agree with me. The first two years of litigation were overwhelming and exhausting. The long hours and the pressures of Court took a while to adapt to. It was not easy drawing a modest salary, when one’s corporate peers were earning 5 times that. The fact that your actions could determine the outcome of cases was also daunting.

    As I settled into the rhythm of litigation, practice was fun. The work varied from day to day and the excitement was unfailing. I enjoyed interacting with clients, meeting people from different strata of society and the thrill of appearing in Courts. My favourite analogy for litigation is a medical doctor’s practice- a patient comes to you with a problem, you diagnose the illness, you treat the illness, you cannot always guarantee that the same treatment would work for all patients- it works for some and it doesn’t for others, and you accordingly alter the course of treatment- the goal is to treat your patient successfully, within accepted professional parameters.

    It has been a little over 11 years and litigation still holds my interest.

     

    What should a law student do in your opinion to shape up his profile for litigation?

    Choose litigation internships. Moot. Read extensively. Having said that, I know of good practicing Counsel who have not interned or mooted during their student days but who are stellar at their work now. It is like learning to swim, the baby pool / floaters will only get you so far. You can only swim when you are in the deep end. Litigation internships may tailor your aptitude for the real thing.

    How important do you think mooting and academic writing are for a law student aspiring to become an advocate?

    Mooting may give a student a glimpse into Court, in that it involves preparing memorials, formulating points of law, formulating arguments and finally ‘presenting’ this before ‘judges’. Academic writing may equip the student with research and analysis skills, in examining a point of law thoroughly.

    However, in Courts it is very rare that the Advocate gets an uninterrupted period of time to present her case and questions posed by the Bench may not be part of one’s brief and are not in sequence. Also, unlike in a moot, in practice, the interest of your client will weigh heavily on your strategy and approach. Further, pleadings in a case are to be concise and to the point, with verbosity being its death knell. It is important to recognize the difference in actual practice. As an aside, if your peers and seniors at the Bar and Bench label your submissions as ‘Moot-court’ style of submissions, it would be a left-handed compliment, which you would quickly want to lose!

    Many students aspire to practice at the Supreme Court and High Courts. Should a student first practice at the trial court to learn the nuances, or is it fine to start at a High Court itself?

    I earned my stripes in the Trial Courts, right from drafting of pleadings to the conduct of full-fledged trials to final arguments. This has helped me tremendously now in my own practice. No matter where one starts her practice, it would be extremely useful to know how original trial jurisdiction works.

     

    How necessary is it to have a mentor or guide to handhold a young lawyer while still in the formative years of the profession? Did you have one?

    Since I joined Mr. Sondhi’s chambers when he had just started out independently, I had the accidental opportunity of being involved in building a practice, file by file. A lot of my values and beliefs have been shaped in the time I worked with him and he continues to be my mentor and friend, to this day. The profession is fulfilling and honourable, but at times, can prove to be treacherous. So it is important to have the right moral compass instilled to navigate it. There have also been several senior members of the Bar and colleagues who have in some way or the other helped me in my initial years and continue to guide me. You will find mentors and friends in the unlikeliest of unlikely places. I have found that members of the Bar are ready to help, if you approach them. One just has to break the ice.

     

    Describe your experience when you appeared in the court for the first time?

    I was given a service matter in the High Court, where all I had to submit was that my client was a formal party and no relief could be granted against my client. The case was called out. I entered appearance for my client. The Counsel for the Petitioner argued. The Counsel for the contesting Respondent argued. The Judge proceeded to allow the petition, granting reliefs against my client as well. I remained standing, and mute. Much to my horror, a month later, the Petitioner filed a contempt petition against both my client and the contesting Respondent and I had to face the ignominy of cowering behind my Senior, while he extricated the client from the pickle I had put it in.

    What were the difficulties you faced in the early days of your practice?

    Practice is challenging. Independent practice, moreso. An independent practitioner is a Counsel, an entrepreneur, an office manager, an HR executive, an accountant all rolled into one. I don’t think these challenges go away. With time, you just learn to adapt to these challenges, better and better. On my first day of independent practice, the Judge asked me to bring my ‘senior’ for arguments, when I stood up to argue a case. It is a different matter that even when I was attached to my Senior’s chambers, he was confident enough to entrust the conduct of the entire case to me! Just a few days ago, a client who came to meet me for the first time candidly said, ‘I expected you to be a lot older.’ I have had a few experiences where prospective clients have been hesitant to entrust their matters to me, as I am a woman. However, these instances have been few and far between and I have been fortunate enough to have clients who have looked at my abilities, rather than my age or gender. It is not that the profession is stacked against women or young lawyers, but it is that there has been a status quo-ist state of affairs, for decades now. More women are coming in. More young lawyers are striking out on their own. Slowly, things are changing. We are learning to adapt.

     

    What would be your parting advice to our readers?

    While I understand that litigation is not the only career option for a law graduate these days, I also find it saddening that an increasing number of students are opting out of practice, a tad too hastily. Litigation is hard, yes. But if our medical students said studying medicine takes too long, practicing medicine is hard and the pay is too meager, we would have no doctors. Litigate and engage with the judicial system.

  • Rahul Kothari, Advocate, on starting an independent practice in Corporate Law

    Rahul Kothari, Advocate, on starting an independent practice in Corporate Law

    Rahul Kothari is an alumnus of Symbiosis Law School, Pune. Having completed his BBA.LL.B from Symbiosis in the year 2009, he is currently running an independent practice on dispute resolution, contract drafting and negotiation, real estate transactions, general corporate and compliance issues. Prior to and subsequent to his graduation, he worked with Hariani & Co. for four years and then at AZB & Partners for three years, thereby gaining an immense experience in dispute resolution, contract drafting, negotiation, real estate transactions, general corporate and compliance matters. Rahul is also presently a visiting faculty at Symbiosis Law School in Pune and at Symbiosis School for Economics in Pune.

    In this interview Rahul talks about –

    • His law school experience
    • His suggestion on how to make a career in a particular field of law
    • His take on mooting writing research papers
    • His experience of independent practice
    • Scope of ADR and the recent amendments in Arbitration and Conciliation Act, 1996
    • His opinion on balancing between personal interest and financial security

     

    HOW WOULD YOU LIKE TO INTRODUCE YOURSELF TO OUR READERS?

    Thank you for this opportunity. I am humbled. I don’t think that at this stage I would ‘qualify’ as a SuperLawyer – but hopefully I will get there someday. And, as for the introduction, I will let the readers be the best judge of who I am once they have read this interview.

     

    WHAT ARE THE FACTORS THAT MOTIVATED YOU TO CHOOSE LAW OVER OTHER PROFESSIONS?

    The most clichéd response to that question would be that I had a passion for the subject and the profession. However, that is only partially true – I had in fact practically closed other doors to most other professions. I did not enjoy nor had much acumen for maths or science, but at the same time did not want to be the average B.Com graduate. Hence, that pretty much left me with only one option – law! The most crucial factor, however, was my curiosity for the subject. I first got introduced to law while I was in my 8th standard of school. It was when I first learnt of basic fundamental rights, etc. in my civics lessons. That got me interested in the subject – and the rest as they say is history!

     

    HOW WILL YOU DESCRIBE YOUR LAW SCHOOL EXPERIENCE?

    I would describe my law school experience as some of the best years of my life.  As far as I know, other than medicine, the five-year law course is probably one of the longest academic courses, which could get a bit hectic at times, especially around exam time. I must admit that there were some law subjects that I did not enjoy much – just because of a sheer lack of interest. However, most subjects were enjoyable. I also believe that two other factors made my time at law school extremely memorable – my friends and the law school itself i.e. Symbiosis Law School, Pune. Both these factors in a way compliment and supplement each other. Traditionally, most Symbiosis institutes have students from various parts of the country, and Symbiosis Law School was no different – which made the experience enriching and diverse.

     

    HOW SHOULD ONE CHOOSE A PARTICULAR FIELD OF LAW TO PURSUE AND MAKE A CAREER IN?

    That’s a very good question. I’m not sure whether there is a universally applicable or accurate answer to this question – but here’s my take.

    Imagine your time in law school (including the internships) as a buffet meal. Try a bit of everything. You may like some things, and some things you may not – but you will only know that once each item in the buffet is tasted; the experience being also necessarily personal and not dependent on someone else’s tastes. I feel that ideally, one should not choose his/her interest in a particular field of law during their time in law school – it should be done within about 2-3 years of graduating from law school. In fact, there are many areas of law that one is not even exposed to while in law school, which require in-depth specialization. One such example applicable to me was maritime law – this was not taught to us in law school at all. The massive advantage that the students have is full service law firms that take in interns as well as fresh graduates. If a student does get an opportunity, my sincere advice is to not miss out on it. These law firms tend to give an excellent exposure to interns and fresh graduates into various fields of law. Sometimes, just listening to a colleague/ senior talk about a matter can give a whole new perspective on a subject.

     

    WHAT’S YOUR TAKE ON THE POPULAR STAND TAKEN ON LAW STUDENTS THAT WITHOUT MOOTS OR PUBLICATIONS YOU CAN NEVER LAND A DECENT JOB?

    This is not true – but it is very important to understand the context behind this often misunderstood issue. The skill set that one tends to develop while taking part in moot courts is invaluable, namely, research, oral argument, drafting, confidence, analytical thinking and clarity of thought. These are some of the most basic and essential skills needed to make a good lawyer. Similar is the case with authoring research papers, with the missing skill of oral arguments. Hence, in my opinion, a student’s abilities tend to sharpen with the skills developed through participation in moot courts and authoring research papers. These skills also tend to help one get through an interview process better. However, it is pertinent to point out here that in no way does this mean that without participating in moot courts or authoring research papers, one’s career gets hampered. Students need to realize that the ‘real world’ requires many more skills, which many a times are not even taught in law school. In fact, I know of many lawyers who have not taken part in any moot courts or authored a single research paper, and yet, are doing exceedingly well in their respective careers.

    To conclude on this point, in my opinion, moot courts and authoring research papers may give one a better start during the first 6 months to a year as a fresh graduate with a new job, but lack of this does not hamper career prospects.

     

    POST-GRADUATION, YOU WORKED IN LAW FIRMS FOR SIX YEARS AFTER WHICH YOU STARTED AN INDEPENDENT PRACTICE. WAS INDEPENDENT PRACTICE ALWAYS ON YOUR MIND SINCE YOU STARTED LAW OR WAS IT THE PRODUCT OF A RECENT SHIFT OF THOUGHT?

    It was always on my mind. It was just a matter of ‘when’ not ‘if’. As a person, I enjoy my freedom, and like to do things my way. A significant aspect that I have learnt over the years is to maintain one’s individuality – and not follow the crowd. This trait does not usually yield short term and immediate returns but, in the long term, it will surely help. Most people I know tend to join a law firm and stick around to hopefully make partner someday. Being with an established law firm was never a part of my long-term plan – but establishing my own law firm was always part of the agenda.

     

    HOW MUCH HAS THE KNOWLEDGE AND EXPERIENCE OF WORKING AT TOP COMMERCIAL LAW FIRMS HELPED YOU IN YOUR CURRENT SEPARATE PRACTICE?

    Immensely! The knowledge and experience gained at both Hariani & Co. as well as AZB & Partners is priceless and invaluable. In addition to the regular legal work, with both firms, I tried to work on non-legal matters too. With Hariani & Co., I was the Editor of their Newsletter and also wrote a few articles. With AZB, I additionally did a little PR, attended conferences and handled some office administration too. Neither of the tasks was thrust upon me, but since my eventual plan was always to start my own law firm, these additional tasks added value to the legal knowledge that I was gaining in any case. However, a common mistake by students is to assume that a large law firm always tends to give better experience – this is not necessarily true. There are a multitude of factors which determine how fruitful, satisfying or enriching your experience with a law firm is – and the size of the law firm is a relevant but not necessarily that important a factor.

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    YOU ADVICE CLIENTS ON CIVIL AND COMMERCIAL ALTERNATIVE DISPUTE RESOLUTION (ADR). CAN YOU THROW LIGHT ON ADR AND ITS SCOPE WITHIN THE NATIONAL CONTEXT FOR OUR YOUNG READERS?

    Well, this is a little tricky. Alternate Dispute Resolution is a fairly vast subject. I feel that any attempt to answer your queries will likely result in students or young lawyers having more questions than answers, but I will give it a shot. Simply put, Alternate Dispute Resolution is basically any form of dispute resolution that is attempted to be achieved outside the traditional Court/Judicial system, usually without much of it entering the public domain. The main and most popular forms of ADR are Arbitration, Conciliation and Mediation. The Arbitration and Conciliation Act, 1996 (as amended and updated) is presently the primary statute governing ADR in India. Mediation and conciliation in the Indian context are quite similar. While some may disagree, I feel that, in the Indian context, mediation and conciliation are not very effective or efficient means of ADR, and are not likely to gain much popularity in the near future. Arbitration, I find, is a fairly effective and efficient means of ADR, especially in view of the recent amendments (which I have discussed below). The main drawbacks of most forms of ADR are lack of awareness and knowledge on the subject by parties as well as genuine willingness of parties to participate in actual ADR. Also, in relative terms, traditional litigation in India is not very expensive, and hence, does not tend to be a deterrent to a party to not approach the Courts and instead go for ADR. Although, I am hopeful that all forms of ADR become a genuine alternative for litigants, I find that other than Arbitration, there is not much scope for other forms of ADR, especially in the present and near future, and considering the current Indian context.

     

    WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THE RECENT AMENDMENTS BROUGHT TO THE ARBITRATION AND CONCILIATION ACT, 1996? HOW BENEFICIAL IS IT IN ESTABLISHING INDIA AS AN INTERNATIONAL ARBITRATION DESTINATION?

    I think it may be too soon to give a view on the recent amendments. I feel that the amendments are well intended, but whether they can be practically achieved or not is the real question. One example is that of the timeline prescribed for completion of proceedings being 12 months with a 6-month extension. While this is an optimistic change, it may not work in the Indian context or for that matter for complicated disputes involving large sums of money. I think that the recent amendments need to be taken in the right spirit, and needs the cooperation of parties, lawyers as well as the arbitrators. If implemented correctly and in the right spirit, these amendments could bring a significant change to the Arbitration scenario in India. As for establishing India as an international arbitration destination, I feel that this is a bit of a misnomer. Most international arbitration destinations, such as Paris, London and New York are in fact cities that have developed into internal arbitration destinations. Hence, ideally, we should focus on important cities and ensure that the infrastructure, the administration as well as the Courts of that city/State support arbitration. Also, I personally feel that none of our cities may truly become ‘international’ arbitration destinations until we allow foreign lawyers to appear in Indian seated arbitrations. This I feel will completely change the game with respect to arbitration in our country.

     

    MANY STUDENTS TAKE UP CORPORATE JOBS, DESPITE HAVING INTERESTS IN OTHER LEGAL STREAMS, POST GRADUATION BECAUSE OF THE FINANCIAL REWARDS THAT IT OFFERS OR THE PERCEPTION THEREOF. HOW YOU THINK ONE CAN BALANCE PERSONAL INTERESTS AND FINANCIAL SECURITY?

    That’s a very difficult a question to answer. I was just speaking about this to a Senior Advocate who I have briefed in one of my matters. He told me that for the first 10 years of entering the profession (he has been practicing for over 30 years now), he did not earn any money at all. His senior just paid him a few monthly out of pocket expenses! However, he gained in terms of knowledge, immensely from his senior, and that was invaluable. I cannot imagine the current crop of lawyers going through a similar period in today’s day and age. I guess one way to balance this is that for the first few years you may join a law firm. Most of them (in large cities) pay even freshers quite well. Stick around with the firm for a few years, ensure a good amount of savings and capital, and then follow your dream in whichever other field of law that you enjoy. This could possibly have an added advantage that you get exposure for a few years in a law firm, which could possibly open up many more avenues for young lawyers.

     

    RAPID FIRE QUESTIONS –

    • Happiest Day as a law student and law professor –

    As a law student – when I graduated law and received my sanad (license to practice).

    As a law teacher – whenever I bump into my students after they have graduated and they thank me for teaching them. I enjoy the fact that I have, in however small a way, contributed to the law student as well as the legal profession in general.

     

    • Worst Day as a law student and law professor

    Not really had a ‘worst day’ as such either as a student or as a teacher. I take the ups and downs in my stride.

     

    • Proudest Moment –

    As a professional: My first appearance at the Bombay High Court which happened to be with a Sr. Advocate. The matter got adjourned. But I have framed a certified copy of the adjournment order recording my first appearance.

    As a teacher: When a teacher that taught me in law school sat through one of my lectures along with students of the class, and on completion of my lecture complimented my teaching. I can also proudly say that my teacher later (briefly) became my student!

     

    MANY LAW STUDENTS PUT THEMSELVES INTO A SHELL WHILE CHOOSING A FIELD OF LAW. THEY ARE NOT OPEN OR READY TO EXPLORE NEWER AND UNIQUE OPPORTUNITIES. WHAT SUGGESTION WOULD YOU GIVE TO SUCH STUDENTS?

    As I said above, for the first few years, consider you are at a buffet. Try a bit of everything. To quote from Forrest Gump, “Life is like a box of chocolates. You never know what you’re going to get.”

     

    IS THERE ANY PARTING PIECE OF ADVICE YOU WOULD LIKE TO PASS ON TO THE READERS, ESPECIALLY THE STUDENTS?

    Don’t accept mediocrity. I don’t believe in the ‘chalta-hai’ attitude. To borrow from the tagline/slogan of Mercedes – “The best or nothing” – this is the motto I tend to follow.

  • Vikram Raghavan, Lead Counsel, World Bank, on work experience and authoring legal books and articles

    Vikram Raghavan graduated from NLSIU, Bangalore with eight gold medals in diverse fields of law in the year 1997 and then went to pursue his masters from New York University. Right after that he started work as an attorney at O’Melveny & Myers, an international law firm in New York City.

    Currently Vikram is currently a Lead Counsel at the World Bank in Washington, DC, and he advises on conflict, fragility, refugees, and macroeconomics. Among other things, he provides legal advice about military coups; United Nations sanctions; debt relief; and loan conditionality. He has authored a book titled Communications Law in India (LexisNexis, 2006) and co-edited a volume of essays: Comparative Constitutionalism in South Asia (Oxford University Press, 2013). His articles are reflected in The Hindu and Economics and Political Weekly.

    In this interview he talks to us about:

    • Choosing law as a profession and his experience at NLSIU, Bangalore and New York University;
    • The art of managing life at law school and to develop interests in different curricular activities;
    • His formative years as a lawyer and his time at O’Melveny & Myers, New York City.
    • His early life at World Bank as a counsel and moving ahead and becoming the lead counsel at the World Bank.

     

    What made you opt for law as a career?

    Well, I was always interested in argumentation. My father was a lawyer and my grandfather was a lawyer as well. But the family profession, so to speak, influenced my decision only so much. When I was about thirteen years old, I read Prashant Bhushan’s book “The Case That Shook India.” I always wanted to do what he did and what he described about the court room drama.

    However, it wasn’t an easy decision because at that time law was not considered to be a prestigious profession. The National Law School had just started and not even a single judge had graduated. So, there was a lot of uncertainty about it and ultimately, the fact was I didn’t want to do science. I had taken commerce and my only options were doing economics, commerce or something else entirely. So, law looked like an attractive idea because NLSIU had just started. I gave myself a year to see if law suited me, if it had not- I guess I had an option of coming back to economics.

     

    Could you tell us about your life before you joined college? Where did your interests lie during your school days?

    During school, I was a stamp collector first and foremost. Philately, as a hobby, shaped my interest in world events and in general knowledge. I also obtained a lot of confidence in public speaking by speaking at the South India Philatelists Association’s second Sunday meetings in Madras. Everyone who attended had to speak. So it was a nice way to get rid of adolescent stage fright.

     

    What curricular and extra-curricular activities did you participate while being in university?

    Well, it was an intense period of five years. The schedule of studies, as you would know, at any National law school is quite demanding. There are deadlines for something or the other, every other week — project submissions, moot courts, mid-terms, and end terms. So I spent most of time by trying to catch up and be on top of the different deadlines that would come.

    Of course, when I was in college, there was no proper Internet. The campus itself did not have many facilities besides the library, which closed at 6.00 p.m. And you could borrow only three books. So I couldn’t say I was very productive. But during those five years, I tried my hand at different things. In my first two years, I did judo at the Sports Authority of India campus near the Law School. I tried my hand at quizzing, but there were much better quizzers at the law school than me. To be sure, there were other extra-curricular activities at NLS like sports and debates. But then again the school was filled with many talented students from the best schools in India. I simply did not have the background or training in high school to compete with them.

    The incentive system in the law school was also skewed in favour of mainstream academic excellence. There were three big things you did if you wanted to be noticed: moot courts, grades, and articles. So, basically I spent those five years trying to get good grades. And you know I don’t regret those five years. What I am today is due to those five years of hard work.

     

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    Could you tell about your internship experiences? What sort of internships did you prefer and what learning experiences did you gain from it?

    Well, I did four internships in those five years. The first one was an internship with  R. Gandhi, which involved working on a lot of constitutional law matters. Among others, I worked with T. Sivagnanam, who is currently a judge at the Madras High Court and on the law school’s governing council as well I think. I also interned with N. Paul Vasanthakumar, the current chief justice of Jammu and Kashmir as well Ravi Chandra Babu, who is also now a judge. These judges were the three lawyers who I worked most closely with during my first internship. The second internship was in the Madras High Court focusing on criminal law under N.T Vanamamalai, a senior advocate. In my fourth year, I worked with K.K. Venugopal and in my fifth year I went to Sri Lanka to work with the Tamil leader, Dr. Neelan Tiruchelvam on the constitution-making process.

     

    Straight after your under-graduation you went abroad to pursue masters at New York university. What was your experience at NYU and what all differences did you notice in quality of education at NLSIU and NYU?

    Well, obviously the facilities over NLSIU were rudimentary. New York University had a lot more facilities. The library was out of this world and the NLS library in those days was still getting built. In those days, we didn’t have the internet so, you know things were different. Also American law schools are rigorous. They put a lot of effort into preparation before class. So, if you don’t read up and come to class then it would be difficult for you to follow.

     

    Could you please tell us about the skills and preparation needed for the moots, building arguments and the way to read a judge’s mind and what are the criteria’s a judge chooses to mark the participant?

    (Vikram has represented India at Philip C. Jessup moot court competition and he also served as the executive council member till the year 2011.)

    Mooting is something that I strongly recommend because I think it really helps in court craft and you it helps you dig deep into a legal subject. When I was a law student there weren’t so many moots like you have today. More number of moots are opportunities for people to learn and explore. Eeveryone at NLS has to compete internally first for it, and the internal competitions were in itself very intense. These competitions conducted across the different classes, which meant you had to argue against the seniors who know more law than you do.

    This was a good process, because it forced you to basically go out of your comfort zone and learn new things very quickly. Participating in the Jessup, no doubt, enhanced my interest in international law. Probably my career today is based on that experience.

     

    You have been an associate at O’Melveny & Myers LLP, An International Law firm. Could you please tell us the experience there?

    That was just after NYU. I spent three years at O’Melveny. I worked on corporate and transactional work and also some litigation, basically international arbitration. It was a very intense experience, because U.S Law firms practice law in a way that is very demanding.  I think the main thing for me was to be able to practice law with very smart lawyers and clients.

     

    You were the editor of NYU Journal of International law and politics. Could please tell us the role you played and what all things did you achieve during your tenure as an editor?

    I wasn’t the editor. A friend of mine was an editor. I was just a graduate editor. If you look at the cover page it has many editors and editor is mostly just a title. I was involved in proof reading some of the articles. I don’t know what the editorial process is like now in Indian law school but it was certainly different from what we did at NLS. At NYU, a lot of care and attention was taken to ensure that the articles are selected properly and carefully formatted and cross-checked. It is a very rigorous exercise.

     

    Could you please tell us about your recruitment at the World Bank and initial days of work? Is it possible for a law student to get an internship at the World Bank?

    (Vikram started at World Bank as a counsel and now he is the lead counsel of operational policy at the World Bank.)

    After three years at a law firm, I applied for and got hired as a counsel at the World Bank. When I came first here, I was given Sri Lanka and Nepal and later Afghanistan and Iraq. That experience was really worth in a way shaped my profile at the bank, working with conflict prone countries, and more unstable countries. I think it was an exciting portfolio for any lawyer to do because it has a mixture of law and policy. Working on a World Bank project is, in itself, a very challenging and rewarding thing. Sadly, we don’t offer regular internships at the World Bank’s legal department. Most of our interns come from institutional partners like NYU who pay the students a stipend. The World Bank does not have the budget nor can we take unpaid interns.

     

    Could please tell us how to develop writing skills to our readers who are mostly law students?

    (Vikram has authored a book on communications law in India and co-edited volumes of essays on comparative constitutionalism in South Asia, his articles are reflected in the editorial columns of The Hindu and Economic and Political Weekly.)

    I would recommend students read the work of Bryan A. Garner. He advocates writing simply and elegantly. Read his work. And you will write very differently. I guarantee it.

     

    How did you to continue to maintain the love for history, economics and law, despite such hectic schedule in life?

    It is always a challenge. Every day, every minute you have to find time to do different things.

     

    What would be your message to the young law students and budding lawyers?

    Well keep working hard, and I believe whoever keeps working hard basically succeeds. It doesn’t matter what school you go to or what grades you get, your hard work helps you. Gain expertise in the subjects that interest you. Build a brand for yourself.

  • Pranav Khatavkar, Advocate, on legal research acumen, founding a law journal, and authoring a commentary on the Insolvency and Bankruptcy Code, 2016

    Pranav Khatavkar completed his B.B.A. LL.B. from Symbiosis Law School, Pune in the year 2015 and his area of specialization is business law (dispute resolution as well as advisory). In pursuance of the same, he has obtained additional qualifications in Mergers & Acquisitions, Investment Laws and Corporate Finance from ASCL Law School. He has also obtained the Securities Intermediaries Compliance (Non-Fund) Certification and Issuers Compliance Certification from National Institute of Securities Markets. Further, he has completed a summer school on International Financial Law and Regulation from the London School of Economics and Political Science, United Kingdom (LSE).

    Pranav’s stellar academic and research credentials are evident from his publications in nationally and internationally renowned journals like Symbiosis Student Law Review, Plebs Journal of Law, International Journal of Legal Sciences and Research, World Journal on Juristic Polity, International Journal of Law and Legal Jurisprudence Studies and International Journal of Legal Research. He has also penned India’s first commentary on the Insolvency and Bankruptcy Code, 2016.

    Pranav also has a very well rounded internship exposure. He has interned at prestigious law firms such as Juriscorp, Trilegal, Economic Laws Practice, Lakshmikumaran&Sridharan and the then AmarchandMangaldas Suresh Shroff& Co. (Now known as Cyril AmarchandMangaldas). He is also the only candidate from his batch to have secured an internship at India’s capital markets regulator (i.e. Securities and Exchange Board of India) and India’s banking sector regulator (i.e. Reserve Bank of India).

    He is also the founding editor of International Commercial Law Review and the erstwhile President of the India Chapter of Network for International Law Students.

    In this interview, he speaks about:-

    • His law school experience
    • Role of grades in one’s career
    • Attending a summer school at the London School of Economics and Political Science
    • His decision to become a commercial lawyer
    • His experience of penning India’s first book on the recently enacted Insolvency and Bankruptcy Code, 2016 and founding a law journal.
    • Pursuing additional qualifications and clearing the compliance module offered by the National Institute of Securities Markets in the first attempt.
    • His take on the All India Bar Examination(AIBE) and enrolling for Bar Hacker.

     

    HOW WOULD YOU LIKE TO INTRODUCE YOURSELF TO OUR READERS?

    Professionally speaking, I am an independent legal professional based out of Mumbai specializing in commercial law (litigation as well as advisory). I am also retained as a Counsel at M/s Synlitigators. Otherwise, I am an unassuming person experiencing life as it unfolds itself to me.

     

    PLEASE TELL US SOMETHING ABOUT YOUR TIME AT LAW SCHOOL.

    Law school for me was a period of tremendous personal and professional development. I was shaped by my experiences. My primary and only focus during my law school days was to find a practice area to specialize in. In pursuance of the same, I read several books, engaged in industry oriented research, networked with people from the industry, pursued additional qualifications and interned at different places. My experiences allowed me to tap into a catena of perspectives that helped me arrive at a decision regarding my practice area and simultaneously build a network.

     

    HOW IMPORTANT A ROLE DO YOU THINK GRADES PLAY IN SHAPING ONE’S CAREER?

    In my opinion, grades assume relative importance (largely in the short term) which depends to a great extent on the set of circumstances you find yourself in. I believe grades play an important role in the following circumstances:-

    While applying for jobs as a fresher – Majority of the top law firms and companies (including quite a few mid-tier ones) (I collectively refer to them as “companies”) that recruit law graduates either through college placements or otherwise often enlist grades as one of the several criteria while short listing candidates for a job. As unfair as it may sound to other candidates who don’t have impressive grades but shine in other aspects (many of them actually do), companies have a valid reason to do this. Companies are also fully aware of the fact that grades don’t necessarily reflect a candidate’s merit and ability but they still use that as a criterion to shortlist candidates simply because they do not have the time and the resources to review each job application on merits as their primary concern is running the company and generating revenue. Recruitments are only one of the several aspects that come into the picture while running a company. Companies in order to reduce their time and effort in recruitments, use grades as a yardstick to shortlist candidates. Furthermore, seen from the viewpoint of the company, ultimately, they are going to make an investment of their time and money in you if they hire you. Hence, by using grades as a yardstick, they also gauge your consistency and motivation to perform. So if you are keen on working with a good company, then, yes, grades are important and especially if you come from a law school that does not feature in the popular rankings. Yes, companies also look at the ranking of your law school. While answering this question, I am categorically excluding those candidates who have strong industry connections using which they often get placed at top companies. I am addressing the concerns of the larger pool of unconnected candidates here.

    While applying for the LL.M. Program – Candidates who are keen on pursuing the LL.M. Program especially from well-established international universities need to have good grades. Since these are primarily academic institutions, it is obvious that they would demand stellar academic credentials from the applicants. Further, even National Law Schools (which I believe are the only places that offer a decent LL.M. Program in India as of date) select candidates for the LL.M. Program on the basis of their performance in the Common Law Admission Test (CLAT) that is designed only for the LL.M. applicants. So with respect to further education, academic performance is very important.

    I conclude this point by saying what I said earlier in this answer. Grades assume relative importance largely in the short term which is further dependent on your set of circumstances at the relevant time. As far as your job prospects as a fresher are concerned, look at your grades as an access pass to enter the job market. Once you are in, then you are on the same footing with everybody else in the market. In order to differentiate yourself then, you have to only focus on delivering results. This applies even to those candidates who secure jobs through references. Ultimately, the industry evaluates you on your individual merit and credence irrespective of your background and connections.

    As far as the long term is concerned, your grades don’t necessarily matter. Then it is only your work that largely speaks for itself. Nevertheless, seen from a holistic perspective, your long term also comprises of several short terms (including your short term time duration as a fresher wherein your grades matter which might influence the subsequent short terms and ultimately your long term if you were to connect the dots). Sounds contradictory and confusing, doesn’t it? Believe me, it’s not.

    To clear this apparent contradiction and confusion, I will just say that you should try your level best to get good grades but at the same time not get bogged down if you aren’t able to achieve the desired score. Give it your best shot and leave the rest to the circumstances. Remember – circumstances no matter how good or bad they appear to be, always change. Nothing stays. Control what you can, manage what you cannot.

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    HOW WOULD YOU DESCRIBE YOUR SUMMER SCHOOL EXPERIENCE AT LSE? WHAT MADE YOU DECIDE TO CHOOSE IT AND WOULD YOU RECOMMEND IT TO OTHER LAW STUDENTS AND LEGAL PROFESSIONALS?

    I wanted to enhance my understanding of the jurisprudential foundation of Indian financial law. Since Indian financial law draws heavily from its British counterpart, I attended a summer school at LSE to study UK financial law and regulation. I had a fabulous time studying at LSE and exploring UK generally. I also learnt a great deal about myself and became more independent. I would certainly recommend attending LSE’s summer school to all law students and legal professionals (subject to your feasibility).

     

    WHY DID YOU ELECT TO BECOME A COMMERCIAL LAWYER? WHAT KIND OF WORK DO YOU DO?

    I support my decision for becoming a commercial lawyer (focusing specifically on commercial litigation and arbitration) on the basis of two averments. First, this field is dynamic and vibrant. Every matter exposes you to a new jurisprudential or a practical aspect of commercial law that you cannot fathom otherwise. Hence, the scope for learning is actually unlimited. Second, there are tremendous growth prospects in this field as there is a huge demand for legal professionals who demonstrate a sound understanding of the legal aspects of business and commerce. Once established, sky is the limit.

    After graduation, I worked at a mid-size law firm for a year before migrating to individual practice. My work now largely involves the following:-

    • Representing banks, financial institutions and corporations before the Bombay High Court, Debts Recovery Tribunal and Debts Recovery Appellate Tribunal.
    • Drafting pleadings and applications in law suits and researching on different aspects of corporate/commercial and bankruptcy law.
    • Advising and representing clients in commercial arbitrations.
    • Advising clients on pre-litigation strategy and procedure.
    • Briefing counsels in various litigation and arbitration proceedings.

     

    HOW WOULD YOU DESCRIBE YOUR EXPERIENCE OF HAVING INTERNED AT THE TOP LAW FIRMS AS WELL AS THE GOVERNMENT ORGANIZATIONS TOO WHERE YOU HAVE GAINED A WORK EXPERIENCE?

    (Pranav has interned with Juris Corp, Trilegal, Economics Laws Practice, Lakshmikumaran & Sridharan and Amarchand Mangaldas Suresh Shroff & Co, now Cyril Amarchand Mangaldas, on the one hand as well as with the Reserve Bank of India and the Securities Exchange Board of India on the other.)

    I interned at law firms specializing in commercial law firms with the primary intention of exploring the practical aspects of commercial law and subsequently taking a call with respect to narrowing down on a practice area. My law firm internships gave me an opportunity to work on a variety of commercial law matters (research as well as drafting). My internships at SEBI and RBI gave me a first-hand exposure to financial regulation. My overall internship exposure gave me tremendous insight in terms of industry operations.

     

    WHAT IN YOUR OPINION IS THE APPROPRIATE WAY FOR ONE TO CHOOSE HIS/HER AREA SPECIALIZATION WHILE AT LAW SCHOOL? WHAT VALUE ADDITIONS DO THESE DIPLOMAS AND ADDITIONAL QUALIFICATIONS OFFER?

    (Pranav has secured diplomas in Corporate Finance, Securities Law, Investment Law and Mergers & Acquisitions. In fact he had pursued his diploma degrees at a fairly early stage of his law school tenure when most others remain undecided about where they want to go.)

    I will first answer the last part of your question that broaches the value additions offered by these diplomas. The academic structure of most of these diplomas offered by other reputed institutions is usually designed after consulting industry experts; for e.g. the Business Law Diploma offered by iPleaders. Although I haven’t done the course as of now, but on the basis of the reviews that it has received and more importantly on the basis of my perusal of the sample study material that is available in public domain, I can say that the insights one will gain after doing a course like this, will certainly benefit him/her in practice which I believe is what ultimately matters.

    With all due respect to the prescribed law school curriculum, I am constrained to say that it is largely theoretical rather than being practical. While I don’t dispute the importance of theory, but I do emphasize the importance of putting theory to practice and therefore recommend a more practice oriented curriculum. Practice not only tests the veracity of theory, but also brings to light issues which have not been previously considered by theory. The investment of money and more importantly the time in law school should yield returns in one’s career. Hence, I recommend pursuing additional qualifications while managing the law school curriculum to expand one’s horizon.

    I believe, a law student should select his area of specialization on the basis of the following considerations:-

    • Existing and estimated growth rate.
    • Demand-supply specifics from an industry standpoint.
    • Existing and prospective competition one can or will encounter.

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    YOU ALSO HAVE A FAIR SHARE OF LEGISLATIVE DRAFTING AND RESEARCH EXPERIENCE. HOW WILL YOU DESCRIBE YOUR EXPERIENCE WITH THE SAME?

    (Pranav was awarded the Best Contributor Award for making concrete recommendations to the Prevention of Sexual Harassment of Women at Workplace Bill, 2010 as a part of Legislative Analysis Project undertaken by a Member of Indian Parliament from the Upper House, Government of India, Mrs. Vandana Chavan)

    My limited legislative experience exposed me to the issues surrounding regulation and governance. I saw the law from the law maker’s eyes and got an iota of an idea of the considerations that influence the law making process. The insights that I derived then, armed me with tremendous perspective on interpretation of laws and more importantly discerning the legislative intent.

     

    WHILE ATTENDING LAW SCHOOL, YOU ALSO TOOK THE INITIATIVE TO ATTEND SEVERAL WORKSHOPS AND TRAINING PROGRAMS. WHAT WAS YOUR MOTIVATION BEHIND PARTICIPATING IN THESE WORKSHOPS AND TRAINING PROGRAMS?

    My primary motivation behind attending these workshops and training programs (I collectively refer to them as “programs”) was to first gain industry insights and second build a professional network. I attended these programs at the Bombay Stock Exchange and Institute of Company Secretaries of India’s Centre for Corporate Governance Research and Training. These workshops largely covered the practical aspects of securities law, debt restructuring and banking law.

     

    YOU HAVE AN ENVIABLE TRACK RECORD OF EXTRACURRICULAR ACTIVITIES (BOTH WITHIN AND OUTSIDE LAW SCHOOL). HOW DID YOU KEEP A BALANCE BETWEEN EXTRACURRICULAR ACTIVITIES AND LEGAL STUDIES?

    (Pranav was a Core Committee Member of the Corporate Law Cell of Symbiosis Law School, a Pro Bono Legal Aid Volunteer for Helping Hands, a Non-Governmental Organization and the Founder& erstwhile President of the India Chapter of Network for International Law Students)

    When it comes to pursuing extra-curricular activities, time management is the key. One has to intelligently allocate his/her time to all activities that he/she intends to pursue. I used to keep a diary (and I still do) to plan and execute my itinerary for the day. This helped me to keep a track of my time and navigate my day smoothly. Extracurricular activities were a welcome break for me from my usual academic routine as a law student then. I saw it as an opportunity to network and step out of my comfort zone.

     

    YOU HAVE AN IMPRESSIVE RESEARCH PROFILE AS THE SAME IS EVIDENT FROM YOUR MULTIPLE PUBLICATIONS IN REPUTED LAW JOURNALS. WHAT ACCORDING TO YOU ARE THE MOST IMPORTANT ASPECTS OF AUTHORING RESEARCH PAPERS AND HOW DID THEY ACTUALLY HELP YOU IN YOUR CAREER?

    (Alongside publishing in reputed law journals such as Symbiosis Student Law Review, Plebs Journal of Law, International Journal of Legal Sciences and Research, World Journal on Juristic Polity, International Journal of Law and Legal Jurisprudence Studies and International Journal of Legal Research, you have also published three blog posts on the iPleaders Law Blog. Please comment as to whether any specific reason inspired you to write particularly for the named blog.)

    I believe that academic research is the best way to expand one’s understanding of a particular subject. It’s almost like completing a mini-Ph.D. on the subject. The hours that you spend doing literature review and empirical research refine your interpretation and research skills, something which all lawyers need irrespective of their field. Further, it helps you gain expertise in a particular sector; something which both employers and academic institutions appreciate. Lastly, it does add a line in the publications section of your CV. The best part, however, is the immense joy you feel if someone else cites or relies upon your research in his/her research. It makes you feel that your efforts have truly fructified.

    As far as my blog posts on the iPleaders Law Blog (“Blog”) are concerned, I chose to publish my blog posts on the Blog because of its fantastic readership and subscription. The quality of blogposts that are published on the Blog is of a superior quality and practically relevant. Further, in the light of the market standing of I-Pleaders, any association with them is certainly beneficial. Hence, I chose the Blog to publish my articles.

     

    WHAT PROMPTED YOU TO FOUND A JOURNAL SPECIFICALLY FOCUSING ON COMMERCIAL LAW?

    (Pranav has founded the law journal International Commercial Law Review while managing his job at the same time as well as secured top legal professionals and academicians to be part of the Advisory Board of the Journal.)

    Peer contribution provides tremendous insights and fresh perspective. This has been my primary motivation behind founding the ICLR. I look at ICLR as a platform where one can put forth his/her ideas and at the same time get recognised for the value additions that he/she makes. Lastly, legal editing has always been a pleasure and a privilege for me. The kind of intellectual enrichment one gets through legal editing (or any type of editing for that matter) cannot be reduced to words.

     

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    YOU HAVE ALSO RECENTLY AUTHORED A BOOK TITLED COMMENTARY ON THE INSOLVENCY AND BANKRUPTCY CODE, 2016 (DECODING THE LAW OF INSOLVENCY AND BANKRUPTCY) WHICH IS THE FIRST BOOK IN INDIA ON THIS SUBJECT. PLEASE COMMENT ON THAT.

    I had been following the Insolvency and Bankruptcy Code, 2016 (“Code”) since it was a Bill as I knew that this Code would be a complete game changer once implemented. While I did not have any ambition to set a record by writing the first book on the Code, I will say that it happened rather intermittently. So, once the Code was passed by the Parliament (i.e. on 11th May 2016), I foresaw a demand for some intellectual material on the Code (since you cannot rely only on the Bare Act). Before I undertook the task of penning the book, I made some enquiries myself. I asked around if any book has come up or whether any book is coming up to which everybody replied in the negative. So, that’s where the thought to pen the book set in. I thought that if nobody had written or was writing a book on the Code then why could I not do it myself. At least, that way, I knew I was setting a foundation by providing some literature on the Code for everyone’s benefit. This was my impetus to penning the book.

    I penned this book while being employed at my erstwhile workplace. Managing my job and penning the book was indeed a task for me. I had to comply with the publication deadline and underperforming at work or taking a leave from office wasn’t an option that I had kept open for myself. So, I burnt the midnight oil. I mean literally. To be honest, there were several occasions while penning the book when I did not know as to where I was headed or what my effort would result into. I had to sacrifice time with family and friends. This caused a lot of upheaval and discontent amongst them. I still persisted nevertheless as I knew I had to comply with the publication deadline come what may. Then came a time when I let go all worry and anxiety with respect to the result and thought of focusing only on penning the book and more importantly the content. I realized deeply that I can only control my inputs and not the result. I was mentally prepared to face both praise and humiliation with respect to my book. Thankfully, it was received well and it got decent reviews.

     

    WHAT ACCORDING TO YOU SHOULD A LAW STUDENT CONCENTRATE ON DURING HIS/ HER TIME IN LAW SCHOOL IN ORDER TO BECOME A GOOD LEGAL PROFESSIONAL AFTER GRADUATING FROM LAW SCHOOL?

    A law student’s first priority in law school should be to find a practice area at the earliest. I have earlier in this interview enlisted the criteria one should consider while zeroing down on a practice area. Once you have identified your practice area, 50% of your job is done. The remaining 50% of your job is to refine your knowledge and skills with respect to the practice area of your choice. Second, time management is the way ahead. I have seen many law students (including many of my batch mates) totally waste their time doing counter-productive activities. While I do not judge them, as it is a matter of personal choice, I do say that what you sow is what you reap (cause and effects). The law is infallible. You can’t do the same thing over and over again and expect different results. Third, learn to look at the larger picture. I have seen many law students remain stuck up over trivial things and completely miss out the larger scheme of things which is nothing but their own long term career interests.

     

    AFTER GRADUATING, YOU COMPLETED THE ENTIRE LEGAL COMPLIANCE MODULE OFFERED BY THE NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF SECURITIES MARKETS. WHAT PROMPTED YOU TO ENROLL FOR THIS AND HOW DID YOU MANAGE TO CLEAR THIS MODULE IN THE FIRST ATTEMPT WHILE MANAGING YOUR JOB?

    Commercial law does not operate in isolation. There are several other areas of law and finance that intersect. In order to bring about a more balanced approach while pursuing a career in commercial law, I chose to pursue the legal compliance module offered by the National Institute of Securities Markets (NISM). Pursuing the module gave me exposure to the legal and financial compliances applicable to the issuers and the intermediaries in the securities markets. You don’t have to be super intelligent to clear the NISM examination. All that it takes is preparation and practice. I used to study over the weekends and appear for mock examinations during the weekdays (before and after office hours at home).

     

    YOU RECENTLY CLEARED THE ALL INDIA BAR EXAMINATION (AIBE). WHILE PREPARING FOR THE SAME, YOU ALSO ENROLLED FOR THE BARHACKER PROGRAM OFFERED BY iPLEADERS. HOW WAS YOUR EXPERIENCE WITH BARHACKER? WOULD YOU RECOMMEND IT TO OTHER AIBE ASPIRANTS?

    Many people assume that since the All India Bar Examination (AIBE) is an open book exam, it can be cleared without any preparation. In reality, it’s otherwise. Although the AIBE is an open book exam, people often forget that it is a time bound examination and most of the questions that are asked are application based rather than being direct. Also, the syllabus is vast. For e.g. in the AIBE that I appeared in i.e. AIBE IX, the Environmental Law component was valued for only 5 marks. What this actually meant was all that acts, rules and regulations covered under the Indian Environmental Law would carry 5 marks out of which the Bar Council of India can ask a question on anything and I mean anything under the scope and ambit of Indian Environmental Law. Like this, there were other areas of law that more or less carried proportionate weightage in the paper except for Cr.P.C and Contract Law (which are again vast subjects). Statistically speaking, about 37% candidates failed the AIBE in 2012. So, it certainly isn’t an easy examination. Like any other competitive exam, you need to prepare and practice over and over again in order to crack it in the first attempt.

    Many newbie lawyers who join the legal profession get caught up with office work which leaves them with no time to prepare for the exam. That’s exactly where a course like BarHacker adds value. The course has a result oriented approach and team iPleaders ensures that you are equipped with the best tools to clear this exam. If you religiously follow their tips, techniques and study methods, chances are that you will clear the AIBE in the first attempt. I give full credit to BarHacker for my AIBE result and, yes, I recommend this course to all AIBE aspirants.

     

    WHAT FINAL PIECE OF ADVICE DO YOU WANT TO PASS ON TO THE READERS?

    Believe in yourself and make the most out of every moment. Use your time wisely and never lose sight of your goals.

  • Shisham Priyadarshini, Partner, Rajani Associates on working at a corporate firm and specializing in project finance

    Shisham Priyadarshini graduated in law from L.A. Shah College, Ahmedabad. She started practice in 2003 and has worked at reputed firms such as Singhi & Co, Mulla & Mulla Craigie Blunt & Caroe and Thakker & Thakker and is currently a partner at Rajani Associates. Her core areas of practice include project finance and banking.

    In this Interview she talks about:

    • Importance of internships and scope of practice in the Corporate sector.
    • Advantages of working at a law firm and her experiences of the same.
    • Her take on the Arbitration and Conciliation Amendment Act, 2015
    • Her advice to students aspiring to build a career in Law.

    1. HOW WOULD YOU INTRODUCE YOURSELF, GIVEN THAT MOST OF OUR READERS ARE LAW STUDENTS, LAW ASPIRANTS OR PROFESSIONALS IN THE LEGAL ARENA?

    I am a first generation lawyer working with Rajani Associates, a law firm with the focus on supporting, advising and guiding the client across various domains of legal practice. My practice areas include project, project finance and banking and finance. I like to work on varied types of assignment and currently I am keen to develop the anti-bribery and anti-corruption (ABC) practice of the firm.

    I can just say that couple of years back I was one of you, reading words of wisdom of successful professionals and trying to draw motivation from them.

    2. ENLIGHTEN OUR READERS ABOUT YOUR ROOTS.

    During my early childhood I stayed in Jammu and then since my father was in Central Services, I moved from one city to another barely completing three years of education in any one school. I did my law studies from L. A. Shah College, Ahmedabad and then I came to Mumbai. Since then I have been working in Mumbai. So while my roots are spread in many cities but as a professional my career has shaped up in Mumbai.

    3. HOW ARE INTERNSHIPS HELPFUL FOR A LAW STUDENT? WHAT ARE THE OTHER OPTIONS AVAILABLE FOR SOMEONE INTERESTED IN CORPORATE PRACTICE?

    I feel law classes though very essential are quite theoretical and teaches the principles of law. It is during internship that you get an opportunity to apply your knowledge to actual matters. Internship is the first introduction to the legal profession. It offers an opportunity to explore the areas of practice which are generally the lesser known subjects of law and also introduces the interns to various interesting facets of law. Longer internships allow you to work on projects from start to finish and provides confidence and experience.

    It is also quite possible that you get an opening in the law firm where you are doing the internship.

    Corporate practice is dynamic. There is plethora of options available for someone interested in corporate practice. Besides the traditional practice areas like private equity, mergers & amalgamations, banking & finance one can even consider venturing into energy laws, maritime law, bankruptcy law, ethics and compliance.

    4. YOU HAVE WORKED AT SEVERAL LAW FIRMS IN THE PAST. WHAT FACTORS MADE YOU LEVITATE TOWARDS PRACTICE IN FIRMS AS COMPARED TO INDEPENDENT PRACTICE?

    Independent practice has its own limitations. While working in a law firms you get the mentoring of your seniors, which I feel is essential during the early years. In a law firm you get to work on varied assignments which enriches the experience and broadens the outlook. I have observed that big corporate houses are hesitant to approach independent practitioners, certainly not because of lack of talent but since they look for a one stop shop and a panacea for all their legal challenges. It was therefore an obvious choice for me to practice in a law firm wherein there is synergy of resources.

    5. YOU HAVE BEEN WITH RAJANI ASSOCIATES FOR MORE THAN A DECADE. CAN YOU TELL US ABOUT YOUR EXPERIENCE AT THE FIRM?

    Today when the attrition rate is so high I have managed to stay with Rajani Associates for over a decade. The credit for this goes to our Founding Managing Partner, Mr. Prem Rajani and to all the colleagues. They have provided a conducive environment to work and grow, from an Associate to a Partner.

    At Rajani Associates, I have been given the opportunity to work on unique and unprecedented matters, outside my core area of specialization. Though these assignments are time consuming, they have given me the maximum amount of job satisfaction, especially because of the learning curve involved in the process.

    I owe a great deal of my understanding of being a lawyer to Prem Rajani who with his guidance, support, patience and sense of humor has mentored my journey.

    6. WHAT LED YOU TO SPECIALISE IN PROJECT AND PROJECT FINANCE? WHAT DOES IT ENTAIL?

    I have always been keen on corporate and commercial law. While working with Rajani Associates, I got the opportunity to work on various project and project finance matters and over a period of time I developed a specialization in the same.

    It provides opportunities to work along with project participants for the development of ports, roadways, highways and social infrastructure including healthcare projects, development of new technologies for waste and water management. It involves rendering services right from the bid stage, to structuring the transaction, forming consortia, execution of concession agreements, project equity, project debt, documenting and negotiating commercial contracts.

    7. WHAT ARE THE QUALITIES REQUIRED TO BE A GOOD NEGOTIATOR? WHAT WOULD YOU DESCRIBE AS A SUCCESSFUL NEGOTIATION?

    To be a good lawyer, it is essential to be a good negotiator. I believe negotiation is not about winning or losing (as is generally construed). It is about varied interests converging on a common goal point and that is the successful completion of the transaction. For this one needs to have a grasp of the matter, do an honest assessment of the situation, be respectful and mindful of the requirements of the parties involved and provide straight forward and simple solutions.

    8. HOW HAS THE FACE OF CORPORATE LITIGATION CHANGED OVER THE YEARS?

    India like any other country has judicial, quasi-judicial as well as other alternate dispute resolution methods. The corporate litigation practice is part of the judicial dispute resolution method which has seen tremendous growth, especially with India opening up its markets, where the Indian judicial system has had to come to terms with the reality of globalization and liberation.

    With multinational companies setting up their business in India, the nature of commercial disputes have changed and today disputes are not only limited to dishonour of cheques, real estate, employment, labour disputes or consumer cases but are majorly in relation to private equity transactions, mergers & acquisitions, competition laws, commercial contracts, defaults in financial transactions (including lending and borrowing, hire purchase, finance lease) and enforcement of foreign awards.

    The Government has also taken several steps to ensure that the time taken to resolve the disputes comes down and litigation matters do not drag on for years. It has amended the arbitration law, passed the commercial courts bill paving the way to constitute the commercial courts to exclusively handle the commercial cases, brought in the Insolvency and Bankruptcy Code and notified the National Company Law Tribunal (NCLT), all aimed at ensuring faster disposal of cases. Even the tax department, one of the largest litigant, has also taken initiative to reduce tax litigation.

    9. WHAT IS YOUR OPINION OR TAKE ON THE ARBITRATION AND CONCILIATION AMENDMENT ACT 2015 ESPECIALLY THE RETROSPECTIVE EFFECT OF THIS AMENDMENT?

    The amendment carried out in the Arbitration and Conciliation Act, 1996, by the Amendment Act, 2015 is quite positive and a huge step forward to boost the commerce of India. The intent is to reduce the intervention of the court and expedite the arbitration proceeding.

    The retrospective effect of the Amendment Act has been discussed by Bombay High Court in the case of BCCI versus M/s Rendezvous Sports World and Delhi High Court in the judgment on Raffles Design International India Private Limited & Anr. versus Educomp Professional Education Ltd & Ors.

    The view taken by the Courts is that the as far as the Arbitral Proceedings are concerned, the Amendment Act shall apply only if the Arbitral Proceedings have commenced on or after October 23, 2015, i.e. the date of promulgation of the Amendment Act.  The Courts have further held that the Amendment Act  shall apply to court proceedings in relation to Arbitral proceedings, such as application for appointment of Arbitrator or setting aside of the award regardless of the date of initiation of such proceeding.

    In my view, the Amendment Act is applicable to “arbitration proceeding” and “in relation to arbitral proceeding”. This distinction has been made with an intent to remove the defects which prevailed under the old act.It is only logical that the amendments shall not apply to the ongoing arbitration proceeding, except when the parties have mutually agreed to the same. This is to avoid any change of law in the midst of an arbitration proceeding. 

    The issue of applicability of the amendments vis-à-vis arbitration proceeding and in relation to arbitral proceeding is presently pending before the Supreme Court of India.I am hopeful that the Supreme Court affirms the view taken by the Bombay High Court, Delhi High Court and the Calcutta High Court in this regard.

    10. ARE THERE ANY SETBACKS IN THE INDIAN JUDICIARY? IF YES, WHAT STEPS DO YOU RECOMMEND TO ERADICATE THESE SETBACKS?

    The biggest challenge faced by the Indian judiciary is the massive burden of the pending cases. It is a common man’s grievance that generally it takes years for the Courts to decide a matter.There is an acute shortage of judges due to delay in appointment and inadequate remuneration. If more judges can be appointed this will drastically reduce the pendency of the cases.

    Additional special courts, fast-track courts may be set up to tackle the issue of backlog of cases. Even the concept of mobile courts should be encouraged to bring justice at the doorsteps of litigants of far-flung remote and rural areas. Lok Adalats, an informal, alternative mechanism can be encouraged especially in pre-litigation matters, settling cases before they become full-blown disputes being referred to the courts.

    11. WHICH IS THE LATEST NON-LAW BOOK YOU HAVE READ? TELL US ABOUT IT.

    Though not a latest one, the non-law book which I am currently re-reading is ‘The Monk who sold his Ferrari’ by Robin Sharma. I feel this book is relevant for every professional.

    12. DEFINE ‘CREATIVITY’. HOW MUCH GRAVITY DO YOU EXPERIENCE TOWARDS CREATIVITY?

    For me creativity is the ability to do new things, find new ways, think out of the box and provide solutions. I certainly feel creativity is very important and especially for a professional. Though an oxymoron, it is said that stress reduces creativity but it is also true that creativity reduces stress.

    13. HOW DO YOU DE-STRESS WHEN NOT AT WORK?

    I like to hear old Hindi songs, play with Bruno, my one and a half year old pug and cook when time permits.

    14. YOUR ADVICE TO ALL THE YOUNGSTERS OUT THERE ASPIRING TO BE SOMEONE GREAT INCLUDING YOUNG BUDDING LAWYERS.

    Today legal profession has been commercialized and in the bargain at times people end up compromising on ethics.

    My advice all the youngsters is to be a good and ethical professional and success will follow. In your pursuit for success do not ignore your family and friends who are your support system.

  • Shashikala Gurpur, Director, SLS Pune on choosing academics, securing scholarships and higher education

    Dr. Shashikala Gurpur graduated in law from Mangalore University in 1988, she is currently the Director of Symbiosis Law School, Pune and Dean of Faculty of Law, Symbiosis International University. Dr. Gurpur is a recipient of the Fulbright Fellowship as well as the Legal Education Innovation Award of SILF-MILAT in 2011, in addition to being the recipient of many other such prestigious accords since then.

    Dr. Gurpur had been the winner of many distinctions and awards which she received throughout the length of her law studies. Today, she holds the reputation of having held office as member of the Law Commission of India and having taught at the National University of Cork, in addition to having co-authored two academic books and carried the role as constituent of Editing Boards of various foreign/ international journals.

    In this interview, Dr. Shashikala Gurpur will be talking about

    • Choosing law and academics and a professional line
    • Legal education in India today in a comparative context
    • Community Legal engagement in SLS Pune and beyond
    • Contemporary professional prospects and requirements

     

    How do you feel about receiving Lexis Nexis’ 100 Legal Luminaries Of India?

    Thank you, I feel that sincerity and hard work always get noticed and honoured. I dedicate this honour to my parents, mentors, my family, the team, students and management of SLS, Pune as well as the institutes and the generation of students I have been engaged with.

     

    How would you like to introduce yourself to our readers?

    The choice of law as an educational avenue is I believe a deep calling unto healing the evils of society and to serve the mission of justice. So, praise yourself if you have made that choice. However, getting into a good law school requires planned preparation right from high school itself. I had completed my high school education in vernacular medium at a municipal school; my primary school was strongly national with the undertone of largely Gandhian values. While still in my early childhood and college years, I had already gotten a taste of politics and implications of communal violence, untouchability and feudalism.  A particular sensitivity to nature and society were cultivated in me from my household and ancestry. My paternal grandfather was a herbal healer for no fee. My maternal grandfather was a village chief. My maternal grand uncle ran a tribal residential school. My father ran a one person justice mission preventing and resolving disputes and protecting the meek. Nevertheless, taking the route of law and legal education was actually thrust upon me by my family property mired in litigation.

     

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    You have taken lectures and seminars at famous institutions abroad. What must be done so that our own legal education system can be at par with global standards?

    At the present moment, the gap seems to be narrowing. Legal education systems in the advanced law schools of the world are profound in corporate, qualitative higher education as well as in prioritizing knowledge creation and student transformation, but the top Indian law schools are also nearly there now. In India, constant check should be maintained to see that the gap between ideal and real remains adequately compensated. Changes are on the anvil. Our different strata or tiers must be uniform. The top and the bottom in the ranking band of the west have one to three percent difference. In India, the top ten have a total of 45% difference in scores.

     

    Your vast experience in legal education in India and abroad must have brought in new ideas for SLS Pune. How would you describe the environment that the institution fosters?

    SLS Pune inculcates the values of hard work, fraternity, excellence and public service. When we received the prestigious Herbert Smith Freehills Community Engagement Award this year, for an institutional body such as our own with the overarching erroneous perception as an ‘elite’ law school, it felt the same as winning an Olympic medal. At SLS Pune, we always have close monitoring of quality and excellence. We believe in fostering human and national development using legal education as a tool. Our university’s vision and mission and our Founder’s life and philosophy stand as testimony and inspiration to that end.

     

    Which among the following do you think is important for instilling legal knowledge – practical knowledge and/or theoretical knowledge?

    A judicious mix of both with competency, courage and collaboration along with profound core ability to stand up and defend would seem to be the perfect requisites for a holistic legal personality.

     

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    A strong alumni community being one of the most crucial factors behind an institution’s success, how closely do you think SLS Pune works with the alumni and in what ways?

    Every year, we arrange a meeting of our alumni at least twice. They even engage as employers, work buddies, mentors, teachers, clinical trainers, mock judges, advisors, and role models, moot and overall mentors. They consider the institute as their friend in need as well as an extended family.

     

    What is your opinion on start-ups and new business ventures as an alternative to traditional litigation and corporate jobs?

    Start-ups throw up great possibilities as well as provide better time allocation for quality work-life balance, in addition to enhancing innovation. At SLS Pune itself, we have had an Entrepreneurship Cell created just recently in the year 2014. We have at least a dozen start-ups created in the last three years and a host of alumni specialising as start-up consultants. This year, with support from the university as well as from the Symbiosis Institute for Business Management (SIBM), we are hoping to further scale up such efforts.

     

    What message or advice do you want to pass on to those who are passionate about vocations in human rights and policy research as opposed to landing corporate jobs?

    It depends very much on how you hold on to this work over the years and what skills you acquire. My advice would be that you develop a profound array of skills and abilities and that you maintain your deep passion and drive towards such aspirations.

     

    How did you choose to pursue a career in academics over practice? How would you advise law graduates and lawyers about this comparatively less charted path?

    I had made this choice by compulsion, by reason of being a first generation lawyer in a farming family and the first female graduate in generations. Women were not encouraged in education or career in my ancestral past despite being owners of land and the existence of a matrilineal culture. Another reason was that my aspiration of practicing/choosing litigation had already gotten fulfilled by the time I graduated by way of my engagement in our familial property disputes, which were settled out of court due to my informed initiative. We have a dearth of proficient teachers nowadays. Quite apparently, the law school demand has gone up in recent years, hence teaching now pays reasonably well. On the other hand, the value of teaching has always had a manifold yet discreet effect in shaping the generations of legal leaders.

     

    What according to you are the necessary skills the lawyers of tomorrow need to possess in order to make a mark in the practice or to place a job in the current scenario?

    To carve out a niche for oneself, especially in the present scene, one must be possessing competencies in several areas, predominantly in thinking out of the box, possessing problem-solving capacity, oral and written communication abilities, research skills and advocacy skills. The right internship is ultimately about aligning opportunity with one’s career/professional goal and not simply accounting for association with top names in one’s CV. True mentorship is what can help you to change or transform yourself.

     

    How do you think a law student can build up his or her profile to attain scholarships or get admissions at the premier universities abroad?

    Build your profile in accordance with the criteria of the respective universities/institutions of your choice. Ensure academic excellence with a minimum 3.5 CGPA. Be among the top ten to fifteen percent students. Enrich your CV, indicating profound legal engagement. Show research experience with a minimum of five standard publications. These will win you scholarships which may ultimately help reduce the cost of your LLM programme.

     

    How do you manage your academics and work life balance? What keeps you motivated to keep working for the betterment of your institution and the legal profession?

    Well, let me confess here that I was quite often thrown completely off balance! The X-factor you mention would be definitely taking one’s job as a service to humanity and the nation (and in my case to my loving son and my students). In brief, it is about seeing the universal mother’s manifestation in every deed and seeing dharma or balanced order as an unfinished endeavor of justice.

     

    Please share with us an experience from your life that makes you feel that it was definitely of utmost worth in choosing law as a profession and teaching as a career?

    In the early days of my career, I spent 50% of my time helping the poor to get access to justice. I introduced students to community based law reform. One especially memorable instance of our reach-out efforts was when we guided an agrarian worker woman to admit her intelligent daughter to a college; she would later scale to a much higher social status as a competent business woman. When the poor and helpless look up to you as credible source of support, when a gleam of truth touches upon you as you journey with your students in class to a higher level of learning, when the alumni of your institution write and recall such inspiring moments, and when you see your junior colleagues or students surpassing and outgrowing your achievement, those are the times when you can fully appreciate the legal profession for what it is and what it is capable of achieving today, and I have experienced all of these moments.

     

    What message do you want to pass on to the readers (aspiring lawyers, legal professionals or anyone related to the law)?

    Take your work in the form of a service to your fellow human beings and as contribution to the greater universal design. Align your life’s overall purpose with what you do as a profession and always keep the spirit of dharma or duty burning in your heart.

     

  • Bharat Chugh, Rank 1, Delhi Judicial Services, on resigning from judgeship and returning to civil and criminal practice

    Bharat Chugh, Rank 1, Delhi Judicial Services, on resigning from judgeship and returning to civil and criminal practice

    Bharat Chugh graduated in law from Jamia Millia Islamia in 2011 and thereafter began practicing independently, taking up cases involving a wide range of legal issues, both Civil as well as Criminal.

    In 2013, at the age of 23, he secured first rank in the prestigious Delhi Judicial Service, in all the three stages of the exam. He joined the Delhi Judicial services as the youngest to crack the exam in his batch. After three and a half years of being a magistrate, he recently decided to resign and return to the practice of law.

    He is also an avid writer, currently working on two books and has various publications to his credit. He is also extremely passionate about mentoring ‘future judges’ and contributing to ‘judicial education’.

    With his combined work experience both in litigation and Judgeship, he talks to us about:

    • His introduction to the Legal Profession
    • The need to reform the system of education
    • Trials and Triumphs in Independent practice
    • His experience of acing the Delhi Judicial Services
    • His return to Litigation

     

    How would you introduce yourself to our readers.

    I graduated in law from Jamia Millia Islamia in 2011 and entered the bar at the age of 21; I practiced law independently for about one and a half years before being selected in the Delhi Judicial Service. I joined as a Civil Judge/Metropolitan Magistrate at the age of 23 years. After heading various criminal/civil judgeship assignments and an extremely fulfilling career as a judge, I decided to return back to my first love – the practice of law.

     

    Tell us a bit about your initiation and experience with law.

    My father was a practising lawyer, however my initiation in law was by no means a conventional one where a father hands over the baton to his son. My father’s law practice was brought to an abrupt halt when he had a massive stroke. I was 6 years old back then. As a result of which our family’s financial position became extremely precarious. I figured out that a regular school education was not only a needless (and avoidable!) expense, but also kept me from working. I had to contribute to my household in terms of finances, to keep it running. Yes! I am essentially a drop out and left regular schooling after 8th Standard. However, I continued my education through the Open School, frog leaped some classes and ended up gaining two years in the process. I kept working alongside.

    By the age of 13-14 years, I was already accompanying my father to the court, drafting pleadings and arguments. When my classmates were learning the first principles of science and math, or just plain fooling around, I was handling my father’s law practise from a small seat near State Bank of India, right below Tis Hazari Old Nazareth Branch, under the stairs, which was our headquarters. It used to be the hub of all activity. A lot of learning in the actual ways of law happened by osmosis by just being in the middle of the action. Like any other 14 year old, I was at times happy on being excused from the drudgery of banal school work, and at others upset over being plucked rudely from the comforts and certainties of a normal childhood and all that comes with it. However, the early initiation in law, gave me a sense of fortitude and a ‘I can deal with whatever life throws at me’ attitude. I also taught computers, designed websites, worked in a Call Centre for a brief while, just to earn those extra bucks each month. However, what at first blush may appear to be a setback, turned out to be a huge advantage. The exposure to work ethic and law, at a very early age gave me a head-start. Though, I was missing school classes, I was learning some valuable life lessons. This was how I also managed to work my way through college and entered the profession.

     

    “No two persons can learn something and experience it in the same way.” Can this is said to be applicable to the system of education in india both law and non-law? Tell us about your experience

    I would agree with that. This also explains how different eye witnesses to the same incident give different accounts of it. This also emphasises the need to shift from a conventional text books based learning to experiential learning. It is quite meaningless to talk about isolated learning, especially in the discipline of law, divorced from experience. I must say my early initiation into law and education in the university of adversity and hard knocks of life, set me up in good stead for a career in law.

     

    How do you say a law student can shape up his profile for litigation while still in law school? Does academic writing help?

    A practising lawyer’s language is his foremost stock in trade. Law Students should work on their verbal as well as writing abilities. The ability to articulate even the most complex of issues clearly and succinctly is extremely important for a lawyer. The most successful lawyers are often the people who know the most and can present it most articulately. So while in Law School one should soak up as much as one can. Master your legal concepts. Discuss with your peers, ask questions, attend talks/lectures/seminars. Mooting is also extremely important. It gives one a sense of what it means to be in a court room. I participated in as many moots/quizzes as I could, and as they say, each drop of sweat in practice, saved blood in War. Mooting helps one develop that quality of being able think on one’s feet. It’s like being in a bouncy, even if you fall you don’t get hurt

    Academic writing does not only look good on the CV, but helps one understand the first principles of law better. This also helps a student hone his drafting skills.

     

    How important do you think are internships for a law student? What sort of internships did you do while in college?

    Internships are extremely important. I interned with Sr. Advocate Sh. KTS Tulsi, Delhi Legal Services Authority. I also assisted Dr. Tamara Relis from the London School of Economics in some research projects. I also worked briefly as a correspondent for a Law Magazine ‘Legal Era’. All these internships give on quite an insight into law-in-action and an opportunity to survey the legal scene from the shoulders of giants. Throughout this, I also kept assisting my father in his law practice.

    I also did a lot of legal aid work in Law School. Me and my friends started a 24 X 7 Legal Aid Cell, and worked in active collaboration with Delhi Legal Services Authority on a lot of projects. These projects gave us a ringside view of the law. The legal aid projects, which were totally selfless, did finally pay off. After I graduated, these cases would go on to be my first briefs and help me enormously in my initial phase as an independent practising lawyer. (Call it Karma!).

     


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    Soon after graduation, you began practising. What challenges did you face in the initial days at the bar? Any memorable trial court experiences?

    Soon after I graduated, I observed a huge vacuum in traditional litigation scene. In this vacuum – I, as a 21 year old lawyer, saw opportunity. Everyone wants to be a Senior Advocate, but few are willing to pull all-nighters for an important case. I used to take up briefs for what people will consider a pittance, and tried to deliver the best service possible. My previous legal aid experience, publications and frequent court appearances ensured that briefs (though not too well paying initially!) still kept me busy.

    During this time, I got to advise my clients on a wide range of legal issues including Criminal Law, Bail Applications, Injunctions, Conventional Civil, Contract, Property and Commercial litigation, Arbitration, Writ Petitions, Cases relating to Negotiable Instruments, Financial Fraud and Cheating, Matrimonial/Inheritance/ Succession/Guardianship and Custody Laws. I had many overseas clients to whom I rendered advise on various issues relating to interface of foreign law with Indian Legal system, enforceability of foreign judgments/awards in India, anti-suit injunctions, etc. Some very vexed issues indeed !

    My favorite court room triumph came in a divorce case where I was cross examining. This was one of my first cross examination cases and I was still pretty naïve in the art. It was a case where I was appearing for the husband in a divorce petition, where he was seeking divorce on the ground of mental cruelty, as his wife had filed a false 498A/ 406 IPC case against him. She had alleged that my client had kept the entire articles of her stridhan and thereby committed criminal breach of trust. The witness in question was the lady’s brother, who had come to depose as to ‘how dutiful his sister was, and it was my client who had treated her cruelly’. As soon as that middle aged North Indian Punjabi Man came into the witness box, I could already see the anger in his gait. He appeared to be a man with an acute sense of honour, and I knew that this potentially might turn out to be his Achilles heel. I planned to hurt his credit and let him burn on his own. I asked him and I remember the exact words :

    ‘I put it to you that you have sold all your sister’s gold articles, and misappropriated the money!’ He just blew his top off on this one and launched a scathing attack on how insensitive I was. I politely reminded him to answer the question first. He blurted out “That is incorrect!” He further volunteered: “It still remains with us”. I immediately followed it up with the finishing coup de grace and drove the proverbial last nail in the coffin: “but you haven’t brought it to the court! You’re lying!”

    He agreed to bring it to the court on the next date of hearing. I got these two answers recorded and concluded the cross examination. Through these two questions, we were able to demonstrate that the 406 IPC charge levelled against my client was false. If we would have asked him whether they had the gold or not directly, he would have clearly denied the same. My client won the case eventually, and this rather damning admission was one of the factors that weighed heavily with the court. A case won by a single question, and a killer argument; nothing compares to this high. One doesn’t need food or drink for days. This made me really happy and yes, the word spread fast, it fetched me a lot of good clients.

     

    Prior to entering law school, did you ever wish to be a judge? What motivated you to apply for judicial exams?

    Frankly, No. I shared the prevailing stereotype that one doesn’t get to be judge, unless one has more salt than pepper in his hair. I had never imagined I’d be a judge at 23. Since I was initiated into law when I was still 13-14 years, I always wanted to be a lawyer. In my fourth year of law, I got hooked to reading great Judges like Justice Chinappa Reddy, J. Krishna Iyer, J. Chandrachud, Lord Denning, Oliver Wendel Holmes, Lord Atkin & Justice H.R.Khanna, amongst many others. They inspired me a great deal. I was fascinated with how these judges breathed life into the dead letters of law by creative interpretation, fashioned remedies, where they apparently were none and did substantial justice. During this time only, I first got enamoured with the idea of being a judge. I have seen a lot of injustice and inequity early on in my life, my heart used to be rankled at each injustice. This was a beautiful opportunity to be a part of the solution and actually dispense ‘Justice’. A service that allowed one an enormous ability to correct injustices, contribute to the evolution of law, and at the same time, quench one’s penchant for writing.

     

    What is the structure of the exam and how did you prepare for it? What motivated you to accomplish such a feat?

    (Not only did Bharat secure the first rank in the Delhi Judicial Service Examination but he was also the youngest to do so.)

    I started studying for the Delhi Judicial Service Exam, alongside law practice. I also took took preparatory classes with Mr. Rahul Yadav of Rahul’s IAS (fondly called ‘Rahul Sir’) at Mukherji Nagar, Delhi. The time at his classes did wonders and really helped me build a strong conceptual base and made my job much easier. I also started teaching my juniors in whatever time I was left with after court, classes and my own studies. It dawned on me that the best way to master a subject is to be able to teach it. All in all, I used to spend at least 8-9 hours a day either studying or teaching.

    Armed with about a year of preparation, I appeared for the Delhi Judicial Service Examination (in short ‘DJS’). To give one a fair idea: DJS exam is not rote based exam and is based on real life cases, involving extremely vexed questions of law; issues that have arisen in the recent times before the courts. The examination has the distinction of being the toughest judicial service examination in the country. It is spread over three stages, first stage is the prelims – which is objective type; the second stage consists of 4 written exams which are subjective and test one’s ability to write well, followed by an interview/personality test. The exam is intensive and requires the student to don the mantle of a judge and write proper orders/judgments. The preparations are strenuous but extremely fulfilling for someone who likes to grapple with legal issues.

     

    How did you feel when you got to know about your excellent scores in the judicial services? Please share with us your experiences thereafter.

    On the day the results were declared, I was arguing a bail application before the High Court. I was ecstatic to find that I had not only cleared the exam but also aced the exam, in all the three successive stages. I was also the youngest at 23 (or rather, the least experienced!) in my batch. I must confess that I was on the horns of dilemma when the results came out. I enjoyed the practice of law immensely and it was hard to let go-of. After thinking days and nights on the trade-off involved, I finally came to the conclusion that ‘a life of reticence’ was a small cost to pay, to be given this opportunity to do so much good. The existing clients, who had reposed great faith in me, were naturally a little sad about it, but happily moved to my friends/associates who took my cases over, making my transition smooth.

    At 23, I took the oath of office on 28th May, 2013. The text still sends adrenaline rushing down my system, each time I read it, and the text will be incomplete if I don’t reproduce it in full :-

    “I, Bharat Chugh, having been appointed a judge, do solemnly affirm that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Constitution of India as by law established; that I will uphold the sovereignty and integrity of India, that I will duly and faithfully and to the best of ability and knowledge and judgment perform the duties of my office without fear or favour, affection or ill- will and that I will uphold the constitution and the laws. “

    As Wordsworth puts it ‘Bliss was in that dawn to be alive; to be young was very Heaven’. I took over my first judgeship assignment in June, 2014 as a Metropolitan Magistrate (NI Act), Tis Hazari. Life had come a full circle, so to speak; My father had started as a typist in Tis Hazari only, roughly four decades back, and I also began my career from here only as a judge. He was ecstatic to say the least. I had fulfilled the promise that I had made to him. I wanted and always tried to make a meaningful difference to people’s lives and hence took it up.

    I did not find the transition very problematic. My essential duality as a lawyer, and the ability to argue both sides, was never a hindrance in judging. In fact, it helped me appreciate both sides of a question even better.

    On the essential qualities of judging, As Socrates says ‘four things belong to a judge: to hear courteously, to answer wisely, to consider soberly, and to decide impartially’. This, I must confess, is an extremely tall order to go by, but I always tried to abide by this principle. The art of active listening isn’t easy, but once mastered, is worth its weight in gold. One learns a lot that way. I learnt so much from counsels who I had the privilege of hearing in different cases.

    A judge’s life is not easy; it is, in a lot of ways, a hermit’s life. It requires reservoirs of patience that run deep and never dry up. Social Contact is quite limited. But all this, as I’ve said earlier, is a small cost to pay for being able to dispense justice.

    I had the opportunity of writing judgments in countless cases that kept the pangs of writing satisfied. Though arguing was something I always missed.

     

    Law students aspire to join practice, judiciary or the civil services but usually tend to shy away from providing legal services and see is as a chore. Is such an attitude advisable?

    No. Judicial Services or Civil Services is extremely fulfilling. It does require a lot of preparations but let us not forget that knowledge does not go to waste ever. Even if someone does not make it to the exam, the knowledge holds the student in great stead, throughout their lives. In a knowledge driven economy, the man with knowledge wins sooner or later. I know so many people who were extremely capable, but for some reason could not clear the exam, but armed with such great knowledge entered practice and did extremely well.

    As regards litigation, I agree there are enormous challenges for a young litigator, and the going is extremely tough, at least in the initial few years, especially if one has no legal background. It is also extremely demanding insofar as an individual lawyer has to divide his time between attracting clients and core legal work, however, nothing takes away from the fact that the struggle is extremely sweet, and those three minutes in court kind of justify everything.

     

    Can you tell us about the training you received at the Delhi and National Judicial Academies. Is there in a need for reform in training programmes of judges?

    After taking the oath of judgeship, I, along with my batchmates underwent one year of extensive induction training at the Delhi Judicial Academy, Dwarka which included – academic sessions as well as hands-on experience in court management, docket management and court craft. We, along with our seniors – presided over various judgeship assignments, such as Civil Judge,, Guardianship Court, Metropolitan Magistrate, Crime Branch court, Special Court for cheque bounce cases, Special Court under the Prevention of Corruption Act, Sessions Trials etc. The Training at the Delhi Judicial Academy is truly transformative. The academy works as a think tank and training institute for newly recruited and existing judges.

    I was also fortunate enough to be at the National Judicial Academy, Bhopal for a brief time and it was truly enlightening. One gets to interact with judges from across the country and exchange best court practices. It is an opportunity that no intern/scholar/judge should miss.

    The training programmes are quite comprehensive and inter-disciplinary. It would be a great idea for the academies to also introduce courses in comparative legal positions in foreign countries and the psychological aspects of judging, heuristics and logical fallacies, which are extremely important for a judge to know.

     

    Any memorable judging experiences that you would like to share with our readers?

    There are many actually. There is one that I remember off-the-cuff. I was acting as a Railway Judge, for a brief time, as an additional charge (called the link judge), where I was aghast to find that young men and women were being prosecuted for begging/selling tea on the railway platform under an archaic provision of the Railways Act. This was a classic case of, what one author calls, ’Criminalisation of the Poor’. The sight of these unfortunate people mired in poverty, and disowned by the State moved me a lot. I gave voice to my anguish in one of my poems called the ‘Confessions of a young judge’. This gave me sleepless nights, and I had to find out a way to help them, of course within the framework of law. The relevant provision in the Railway Act clearly prohibited such an activity; However, convicting them will amount to me being a court of law and not a court of justice. Taking cue from Justice B. D. Ahmed’s remarkable judgment in Ram Lakhan v. State (2006), I dropped proceedings against many of these people, invoking the doctrine of ‘necessity’. I ruled that: A person was excused from the crime of begging, if he begs in order to save himself from starvation and a certain death. I wrote, with great anguish, that if the so called welfare state could not provide basic necessities for these people, it had no right to prosecute them. These orders were never challenged by the State before the higher echelons, which was undesirable insofar as a judgment by the High Court on this point would have had a wider coverage and could have provided a much needed security cover to these forgotten souls and benefits would have trickled down on a much wider scale.

     

    The judiciary today is in crisis due to the excessive backlog of cases. Can mediation be a solution to this crisis? Is there any other form of adr which can be looked upon as a potential solution?

    Backlog is a huge issue. Courts are crumbling under pressure. Too many cases on the board deprive cases of the personalised care and attention that they deserve. With such work pressure, it is indeed a challenge to maintain quality not just in the final judgment, but also in the process. I worked in my first assignment for one a half years. It was one of the heaviest courts with over 5000 cases; I managed to dispose of about 3800 cases in the first one and half years. I tried to implement new court and docket management strategies.

    Mediation and ADR is, of course, the way forward, not because of the system’s inability to deliver timely justice, but because of the qualitative worth, finality and superiority of a decision arrived-at, by the parties themselves.

    In order to further the cause of ADR, I also made a reference to the Hon’ble High Court of Delhi on a question of law relating to ‘Mediation/ADR in Criminal cases’. The reference was subsequently entertained, amici appointed to assist the court. A landmark decision is expected on that point which would streamline the mechanism of ADR in criminal cases !

     

    You recently returned to the practice of law after resigning from judgeship. What were the factors which influenced you to do so?

    All in all, after a three and a half year, and a rather fulfilling stint at judging, I decided to once again return to the practice of law. I sorely missed being able to practice law in the last three and a half years. Once a lawyer, always a lawyer as they say ! I also missed being able to write and teach. Having fulfilled the promise made to my father, I had certain promises to keep with myself and this is but the first step in that direction. Whether I’ll be able to redeem those promises is something that time will tell. But, for now, as Shakespeare would say, there is method in my madness !

     

    What would be your parting message to our readers?

    There is no substitute for hard work in law. I’ll quote Justice Joseph Story when he said “The law is a jealous mistress and requires a long and constant courtship. It is not to be won by trifling favors, but by lavish homage.”If you are able to do that – there is little else that you’ll need ever again !

  • Ramanand Mundkur, Managing Partner, Mundkur Law Partners, on building his career in corporate law

    Ramanand Mundkur graduated from National Law School of India University (1989-1994). He is the managing partner of Mundkur Law Partners, and heads its corporate, M&A and life science practices. He has over twenty years of international work experience, having previously worked with the International Monetary Fund in Washington DC, the United Nations in Geneva, and Arthur Andersen in India before setting up MLP in 2007.

    Ramanand won multiple academic gold medals when graduating from India’s leading National Law School, and also holds a master’s degree from Harvard Law School, where he was a Langdon E. Gammon fellow and a Myer and Etta Dana scholar. He is qualified to practice law in India and New York.

     

    In this interview he talks to us about:

    • His areas of interest in law.
    • His experience at International Monetary Fund in Washington DC.
    • How his experience at Harvard prepared him for a life of academic prestige and professional success.
    • What he looks for in a typical cover letter and CV.

     

    How would you like to introduce yourself to our readers?

    I’m a corporate and transactional lawyer, based out of Bangalore.

     

    What led you to choose legal profession?

    I entered law school entirely by accident. A friend suggested me to appear for the NLSIU entrance exam and I got in. But after the first class at NLSIU (which I still remember vividly, with Dr. Menon repeatedly asking us “What is law?” and no answer being complete or satisfactory), I was hooked. I can’t think of any other subject or profession that provides the intellectual fulfillment that law does.

    So while I might have chosen law school by accident, I chose the law as a profession very deliberately. I suppose we were incredibly lucky to have been around when NLSIU was just set up, and to have that fantastic group of teachers who kindled our passion for the law.

     

    What were your areas of interest in the law? Did you engage in extracurricular activities while in college?

    One of my greatest difficulties has been identifying one or two “areas of interest” in the law—I found them all fascinating. I probably chose corporate law and public international law because they offered economic stability fairly early in my career and because the other areas of law e.g., constitutional law, criminal law, property, evidence, etc. didn’t appeal to me.

    Being part of the first few batches of NLSIU, I was lucky enough to be able to participate in pretty much all the extracurricular activities on offer: mooting, debating, quizzes, theatre, music (a bunch of us euphemistically called ourselves a band), cricket, football and whatever else was available to us.

     

    You have worked with the International Monetary Fund in Washington DC. Please share your experience.

    The Fund is a fantastic place to work at and I miss both the people there and the work I did. As a lawyer, I initially worked on the legal aspects of Fund relations with member countries (both borrowing countries as well as other Fund members). Over time, the scope of work widened to cover issues such as the Fund’s internal governance rules (including quotas, voting rights, criteria for recognition of new sates and representation) and technical assistance to certain member countries.

     

    As a Managing Partner of the firm, what is an average day at work like?

    It’s not as attractive as I hoped it would be. A large part of each day is spent on purely administrative issues. Moreover, because we’re a boutique firm, one has to wear many hats—advising clients, bringing in new work, ensuring we stay current with changes in the law, dealing with HR issues, managing firm finances, dealing with firm IT issues, all the way through to being “chief bottle washer” whenever required.

     

    How well did your experience at Harvard prepare you for a life of academic prestige and professional success?

    Harvard is probably the finest example of an enabling environment. As a student there, you’re surrounded by extremely bright, self-motivated individuals and achievers, with infrastructure and resources that are the best in the world. The faculty is outstanding and their areas of work and research are invariably cutting edge or path breaking. At times I felt one could learn and grow just by being there.

     

    What do you want to say to the next generation lawyers? Which are the growing areas of law where a new law student or young lawyer can focus and distinguish himself?

    Questions like that tend to be a little depressing (and ageist)—I’m definitely in no position to take on the role of an avuncular eminence grise—advising “the next generation” of lawyers. One bit of experience I would share with law students, though, is to not chase “growing” areas of the law or the next big thing. Instead, and this is pretty obvious: if you do what you enjoy, you’ll find that you enjoy doing what you do!

     

    Do you take interns? What do you look for in a typical cover letter and CV? How can interns manage to get positive feedback in the limited time they have?

    Yes, we do have an active internship program that works directly with certain law schools. The law schools that we work with in this regard send us CVs of suggested candidates from their senior batches, and we offer internship slots to those candidates through the law schools. As a result, we often find we don’t have slots available for individual applicants, who haven’t applied through their law schools. We encourage law schools to sign on to this program, and the schools’ placement officers can write to us at careers@mundkur.com for this purpose.

    With regard to cover letters and CVs, we look for candidates who have a consistent and reasonably strong academic, and who demonstrate that they’ve spent some time thinking about why they want to apply to our firm, and why our firm might benefit from hiring them.

     

    What would be your advice to our budding lawyers?

    I think this question has been answered. And it also reminds me of one other piece of advice I got early in my career and I’m happy to share with budding lawyers: it’s very important for a lawyer to know when to stop speaking.

  • Satish Kumar, Global Head – Legal, Ramco Systems, on a career as an in-house counsel

    K Satish Kumar graduated in B.Com and thereafter qualified in law in 1995 from Sambalpur University, he is also a Certified Management Accountant from ICWAI. Having worked at multiple corporate bodies as an in-house legal counsel, Satish is currently the Global Head – Legal at Ramco Systems in Chennai. Satish additionally has several publications to his name and has done much work in the way of Pro Bono activities to give back to society.

    In this interview, Satish talks to us about:

    • His introduction to the legal profession, and his experience as a lawyer since then.
    • His plethora of publications, and his advice on the best way to go about writing and publishing articles
    • Pro Bono work, giving back to society, and the ways in which he keeps up to date with the ever-changing subject that is Law

     

    How did you choose Law? Did you always know that this was what you wanted to do?

    In fact my choosing law was not deliberate and intentional. I started my career as a Finance Professional after completing my ICWA (currently known as CMA). I had parallely completed my Law Degree as well. However, Finance and Legal being closely related, I found out that I had a good aptitude for Law. That is when – even after starting my career in Finance – I switched over to Law, and with God’s grace, I am doing well and creating a niche for myself in the Legal Profession.

    In any organization, the Legal Unit are always regarded as the “Deal Makers”. You also resort to Legal when you have to be bailed out of any crisis. Legal plays an important role in “Crisis Management”. So the Legal Unit becomes most important either way – be it bringing revenue to the organization or pulling it out of some crisis. These are some of the selfish reasons which made me swing sides to Law.

     

     

    You have a lot of work experience, from working at a vast array of places. Can you tell us a little about your career graph up to this point?

    satish-kumar-4Yes, I carry more than 20 years of rich working experience in multiple MNC’s. I am very passionate about Law and that is what made me a Successful Professional.  I have working experience from Fortune 10 companies to Indian grown or growing companies like, HCL Technologies, Polaris Financial Technology (later on the product division split to Intellect Design Arena Ltd), Ramco Systems Ltd. I was fortunate to get the right breaks at the right time. I also carry some critical experience working abroad. So truly, I became a Global and a Cosmopolitan Professional.

    However, initially I started off my professional working in few indigenous companies in India. But I was fortunate to work with some industry trendsetters.  My desire to learn new businesses and passion to explore all new possibilities has helped me in my career growth progression.

     

    You have received lot of awards in your career. Can you please tell the young lawyers few things about it, please?

    Yes, I am the proud winner of many awards during the progression of my career, both abroad and in India. I have successfully negotiated and closed many contracts, structured and finalized joint ventures, cross border investments etc. I was also successful in closing many litigations. There was a time when my colleagues used to call me “the person with Midas’ touch”. In Polaris I was also called “The Deal Maker”.

    For all the achievements mentioned above and others, I was the proud winner of awards like

     

    • Konark Excellence Award
    • Gem Award
    • America’s Most Wanted Person by US Sales Team
    • Annual Excellence Award
    • Person Making a Difference

     

    You have a great deal of publications to your name. Do you write about things you think are relevant and have scope for research, about things that interest you personally, or is it a blend of the two?

    Yes, this is a very interesting question. I am happy to have many publications to my credit. I love writing – writing on relevant current Legal topics. I have written on Risk Mitigation, Open Source, Rent Control Act, etc. Some of my writings are also published in National and International Business Journals. Someday, I am sure my wish of publishing my own book on Legal topics is going to come true. Some of the links to my publications are given below.

    • Article on “Software companies can hedge against risks, with insurance cover.” Published in Business Daily “Business Line” dated April 6, 2009

     

    http://www.thehindubusinessline.in/ew/2009/04/06/stories/2009040650090300.htm

     

    • Article on “Closure of Business Deals” Published in Business Daily “Business Line” dated August 20, 2007

     

    http://www.thehindubusinessline.in/ew/2007/08/20/stories/2007082050100300.htm

     

    • Article on “Open Source Software – sans the risk” Published in Business Daily “Business Line” dated November 19, 2007

     

    http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/ew/2007/11/19/stories/2007111950090301.htm

     

    Could you also please tell our readers interested in publishing their own work what you think the best way to go about the same is?

    You should first start writing on subjects that is of interest to yourself. Writing on things you are passionate about will help further to strengthen your grasp of the subject. One may start first writing blogs and over a period of time these blogs can be converted to articles and reports in business journals. You should take care of the following while writing.

    As a first step you should select a topic that interests you, and focus on it for at least a week or two. Write a rough draft, including everything that you can think of. Stay loose, avoid getting analytical and enjoy the process of sharing what you know. You will then be surprised to see that you have a rough skeleton of the draft that you proposed to write.

    As a second step you should address your audience’s needs. You already have a skeletal draft. Now change sides and think of yourself as the reader of the draft piece of work that you had written. You should pick few words to describe the audience you want to address. For example, “young legal professionals”. Now, as a young legal professional, what are the questions you would like to ask? Note down these questions.

    As a third step you should start doing research. Now start doing a research to get the answers for all your questions noted down above. You should collect everything you have gathered and put it in a folder, or an electronic document, a notebook. You may also want to note the track of the sources so that you may refer them in future when you need it.

    As a fourth step you should refresh your draft. Now you may sprinkle the research in the draft that you have already drafted for the right audience. You may just want to revise what you have as you proceed, retaining a nice conversational tone by directly addressing your audience.

    As a fifth and final step you should review your draft. You should read, revise and repeat the process a couple of times after giving yourself some time in between the repeat processes. You will be surprised at what you have written and the changes that you keep making to the draft while re-reading it. Publishing the writing in the journals will be tough initially but once you start publishing the process will be set in your mind and it will be easier for you to write and publish in future.

     

    satish-kumar-3

    You strongly believe in spreading legal awareness to both laymen in the field of Law, as well as the younger generations of upcoming professionals in the legal field. Could you tell us a little about why Legal Awareness is so relevant?

    We usually ensure that our wealth gets transferred to our next generation through whatever way possible, like filling nomination in our Bank accounts/insurance accounts, Will writing, settlement deeds etc. But seldom do we think of transferring our intellectual wealth to the next generation. If the intellectual knowledge of Aryabatta and Einstein were transferred now to the next generation then we would be sitting rich on various inventions and patents and the world would be completely different now with many more such Aryabattas and Einsteins. But that is not the real scenario. Hence, it is very critical that our intellectual knowledge also gets transferred to the next generation. This is only possible if you transfer your learnings to your teammates and other budding professionals in the field. There are many nuances that we learn from experience, and it is worthwhile to transfer this to the next generation so that the profession becomes richer and more valuable with the passage of time.

     

    Tell us a little about your Pro Bono Activity. You have amassed a huge followers for the same. What kind of queries do you usually address?

    We derive a lot of benefit from this society. The society has made us what we are today – experienced professionals. We have an obligation towards the society. Everyone in their lifetime has one or other legal problem. But everyone may not be able to afford the best lawyers in the world. That is where we can step in and make a difference. A piece of genuine advice, counselling, direction, opinion will make a world of difference to these people. For me it doesn’t really cost much. But it gives me immense satisfaction when I see the smiling face at the other end after my counselling or legal advice.

    But I have to reach the people. That is when I decided to reach people through social media. Facebook, Linkedin, Twitter, Google+ were some of the mediums which I adopted to reach the people. I was surprised at the response levels. In a very short period, I had a fan following club of over 6000 people. People approached me with different problems. Some wanted to know the process to adopt a child, some wanted to reconcile with their spouse, property disputes among legal heirs, child abuse, work place bullying or abuse, sexual harassment etc. I ensure that just as I give some time to my family, I also give some time to the society. This has given me a lot of moral satisfaction.

    Pro bono makes me happier. Participating on such activities also provide opportunities to make personal connections with people who share your interests. Indeed, social connection is the greatest predictor of happiness.

    The very purpose of pro bono work is to assist those who desperately need help with something that’s really important, but for which they have no resources themselves. We are fortunate to be lawyers. We are among the lucky few to survive all the obstacles of becoming (and staying) lawyers. We are among the few who can make the legal system work for people who have nothing to give us but their gratitude.

    It helps to pursue my own interest and passions while helping others.

    During my early phase of career such pro bono legal work provided me a training ground. I was a junior lawyer earlier and did not have much autonomy for several years. Such Pro bono work in the initial phases of my career provided early opportunities for depositions, building client relationships, arguing motions, first-chairing trials and other valuable work experience to build skills and confidence.

    Charitable and pro bono legal work provides me opportunities to meet people with very different backgrounds and interests whom I may not otherwise meet in my daily life. Fundraising for charities, serving as a board member for a nonprofit organization and the like connected me with local business leaders and lead to new friends.

     

    satish-kumar-2

    How do you stay updated with the happenings not only in the world at large, but also with the relevant happenings in the legal field?

    I have joined many legal professional associations both in India and international levels. These associations are large number of similar professionals who are successful in their own fields. Interacting with them is very useful in developing ourselves.

    I have also subscribed to various legal bulletins. Laws are constantly changing and what was right yesterday could be illegal today. I keep myself updated reading legal decisions, and legislative and regulatory news and changes. They help me a lot to keep up to date with the dynamic legal field.

    There are various E-law tools which publish their own exhaustive law guides. The E-Laws Advisor tool simulates the interactions that a client might have with a professional. I can ask questions and it provides answers. I have privileged access to such E-laws tools.

    I also attend conferences across the globe. I interact with various professionals from Legal and other fields. This is a constant learning process and helps me understand their views too. The key benefit of attending this kind of conference is that I will be able to network and interact with key legislative decision makers and can make my views known to them.

    There are range of resources and communication channels for any professionals in order to both familiarize themselves and remain up to date with current law and trends. New technology is making it possible for this to be accessed on demand via the internet or “pushed out” to professionals via newsletters or tweets or other social media. One should only have desire to learn and keep the mind open. I make it a point to learn at least one new law every day.

     

    In your opinion, what should young students of Law prioritize as they lay the foundation for their career?

    Fresh law graduates and young students must, first of all identify the career of their interest before initiating actions in specific direction. For example, judiciary might interest some students and some might be interested in being in corporate working as a legal consultant or in-house legal officer; others might be interested in opting for litigation as a professional career. Hence, it is very important to find out what career path attracts one the most.

    Another crucial thing is to identify the area of their interest: it is very important for a student to know  which specific field of law is most suitable for them, based on their level of understanding in particular subjects. Some students might be very good in understanding criminal laws whereas comparatively weak in understanding commercial and business laws. Such students must consider their incline towards criminal law while choosing career options for themselves. Such students may opt for litigation or working under a lawyer who deals with criminal law. While students who have better understanding of taxation laws, company law, labor laws, intellectual property laws, etc. should prefer working in corporates or as an IP attorney or under a corporate lawyer.

    Once after a student has decided the chosen field of law and to start his / her professional career, he / she must join an organization or a lawyer with which / whom he / she can get enriching professional experience. First work experience is very important specifically for a legal professional as it implants the roots of one’s entire professional career. Student must give first consideration to the quality of work his/her chosen career option can provide. Further professional developments majorly depend on one’s first career decision and the learning experience during initial years of one’s career.

    From a different perspective, students should also be aware and mentally prepared of the fact that theoretical understanding and practical application of law widely differs. It is very usual for a law professional to come across dicey situations every single day. Thus, it is necessary for a student to develop a habit of thinking in order to find an amicable solution of any problem keeping in mind both legal acumen and practical feasibility. In this aspect, a few internship experiences in addition to legal studies from a reputed institution can be an added advantage.

     

    What kind of audience do you typically see at your seminars? What kind of awareness do you usually direct at them?

    (Satish actively participates in Legal Seminars conducted in various cities all over India in an endeavor to bring awareness to the young generations of lawyers and other professionals in the field of Law.)

    Yes, I am regularly invited by “The Associated Chambers of Commerce & Industry of India” (ASSOCHAM), “Confederation of Indian Industries” (CII), other Legal bodies to spread disseminate legal knowledge among the next generation lawyers.

    This is also a good platform to identify young and bright lawyers who require mentoring. I can easily identify the desire and passion in them as they keep coming to me with various intelligent questions and try to enrich themselves. Such bright lawyers should be given an opportunity to grow – to take advantage of all the experience that I have developed over the years.

    I also get an opportunity to interact with inventors, industrialists, scientists, authors, businessmen, investors, financiers, etc and get different viewpoints on the same topic.  This helps us to re-look, re-think and reposition ourselves on any topic which has various stakeholders. I learn through this process of interacting with top professionals. In order to keep ourselves abreast of new developments, we have to constantly learn. Such seminars play a useful role and are beneficial to me too.

     

    In your opinion, what are the most important skills any young lawyer should cultivate?

    As a young lawyer, when you are just starting your career in law, it can be a challenging to stay on top of everything. There seems to be an endless list of new skills and information that you need to learn. It is in fact all about getting back to basics.

    As a young lawyer, you should be a good listener. When given instructions by a client or another member of your team, listen carefully. It is important that you understand what you have been asked to do. You may ask plenty of questions, take detailed notes. This may help in giving a proper response.

    As a young lawyer you should develop a good communication skill: The success of a lawyer depends on the communication skill. You are as good as you communicate. You should develop good written and oral communication, paying attention to details, listen while others speak, professionalism, using office technologies like email and word processing, critical reading and comprehension, synthesizing facts and law, legal reasoning, organizational skills, interpersonal skills, working within established time constraints, issue spotting and finally decisiveness.

    As a young lawyer you should learn to maintain written records. Keeping good written records can save you in times of trouble. So it is a vital discipline to learn to maintain written records.

     

    What are the biggest challenges faced by the modern day lawyers?

    The legal profession is a competitive one. Yes, it always has been, but these days—with rapid changes in the way we practice law, it seems to be even more so. The integration of worldwide financial and commercial markets has occurred at an astonishing speed over the last couple of decades. Market participants now routinely lend, borrow, invest, trade, hedge and pledge and do business in jurisdictions other than their own. They expect their lawyers to tag along with them in these global adventures.

    For the lawyers, compulsory cosmopolitanism can be discomforting. It isn’t just that laws and judicial procedures differ from one jurisdiction to another. It is something more subtle. Lawyers trained in different legal systems may approach legal problems, client relations, professional etiquette, ethical questions, legal drafting, and correct professional demeanor in remarkably different ways.

    Nowadays, the clients’ expectations are more than ever sky high and on-demand. Access to the internet provides potential clients with access to legal information at their fingertips. They are empowered by technology, and they expect that their attorneys will be proactive in finding ways to be efficient and offering options and solutions in terms of results. This can strain relationships between lawyers and their clients, which puts additional pressure on lawyers to find ways to meet these expectations.

    With the access people have to information today it’s becoming more common for legal clients to have done research on their own prior to speaking with their lawyers. This has changed the role of the lawyer to educating the client in new ways like sorting through reliable and unreliable information the client may have found in their research.

    Technology has also allowed for the creation of various cheap legal service providers from paralegal. There is a gross oversupply of law schools and this glut still plagues the legal profession today.

    These paralegal have cropped up all over the internet, city, offering low-cost legal services at very attractive proposition for those seeking what they know can be costly services.

    Globalization and competition are another challenge that the lawyers face.

    In today’s global economy, lawyers may face barriers in expanding practices overseas.

    Countries around the globe are asking themselves if easing rules for attorneys to practice in foreign countries is helpful or hurtful. There’s no clear answer, and countries are handling it in various ways.

    New regulations and laws constantly come. Law is an evolving subject. Lawyers have to constantly update themselves so that they are not left behind.

     

    What is the future of Legal Profession?

    Law is a dynamic field. The practice of law is changing, but it has always been changing. In the 19th century, there was a major transition from small sole practitioner type of firms with law clerks to the beginning of the modern larger firms that specializes in certain areas. With the development and invention of technology like typewriter and telephone, computer etc, the profession of law also developed in equal pace. Now modern technology allows all sorts of legal matters at one’s fingertips. A good computer with access to legal research is a great leveler.  But, this world of informational technology has taken away the quality of life from many lawyers. Lawyers are bombarded with emails and other types of electronic messages from clients 24 hours a day. Going on vacation becomes almost an impossibility—at least on a vacation where one gets away from their work. Essentially law is a 24/7 practice with emails coming in day and night, on all holidays, weekends, etc. This massive and useless over-communication takes a huge amount of time, and at the same time is unproductive.

    With the technology, the nature of the practice of law has begun to shift. What the future of law will look like in the next 50 years remains unknown. The fear is that it will driven by technology and not the human side. Will law remain a profession, or will law change to be a business driven by technology? Only time will be able to answer this question.

     

    What message would you like to leave our young readers?

    Be open and try to absorb and learn as much as possible. The early phase in your career is a learning phase and later on you can only get better. The more you learn, the more experience you gain. You should also try to get a good academic record and in parallel maintain good extra-curricular activities. Try to get good internship experiences.