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  • Sanjay Hegde, Senior Advocate, on building a legal practice, arguing on landmark cases and on legal journalism

    Sanjay Hegde, Senior Advocate, on building a legal practice, arguing on landmark cases and on legal journalism

    Mr. Sanjay R Hegde, is a Senior Advocate at the Supreme Court of India. He began his illustrious career back in 1989 while working as a lawyer with M/s Mulla & Mulla & Craigie Blunt & Caroe Solicitors. He gained his LL.M while at work and thereafter moved to Delhi to practice in the Supreme Court in the Chambers of Senior Advocate Mr. G. Ramaswamy. During this period he worked on several high profile cases, appeared for the Government of Indian before an international arbitral tribunal and from 1996 to 2004 was on the Union of India’s arguing panel before the Supreme Court. He also worked for a decade as the Advocate on Record for the State of Karnataka and thereafter focused on private practice. He has frequently engaged in legal journalism including appearing on television panels and writing as a columnist for newspapers.

    In this interview, he talks to us about:

    • His career choices and the reasoning behind them.
    • His experiences in the various roles and offices he has assumed over the years.
    • His opinions on miscellaneous topics – the importance of mooting and writing for students, ADR in International Law and legal journalism.
    • His advice to law students while studying, practicing and moulding their careers.

     

    Please elaborate on the motivating factors which helped you in choosing legal studies.

    I assume you mean, why did I decide to study law? Well, in our days, choosing a career in law, was not a matter of choice but circumstance. Often one did not set out to become a lawyer, but did drift into the profession after exhausting most other avenues. My father was a lawyer as was his uncle and grand-uncle. So as the first of five children, of a not very successful lawyer, a legal career, while available was not necessarily a first choice. I did law, while working in a computer company and studying for the civil services examination. I also did an LL.M simultaneously while working with Mulla & Mulla.

     

    Please tell us about how you decided to pursue litigation. Were you considering any other opportunities?

    I got selected by the UPSC for a non-IAS service, which I kept on hold for a couple of years, while I started out in the Supreme Court with the then attorney general Mr.G.Ramaswamy who was my guru in court-craft. I had been a debater and a quizzer in my times, so a quiet life behind my desk in a solicitor’s firm (that’s what we called corporate law then), did not appeal to me. It had to be courtrooms or nothing in my case.

     

    How were your years in college? Did your study prepare you in any way for real-life practice in Courts?

    When I see kids in law schools these days (my son included), prepare so hard with presentations and papers, I am reminded of how little I did in college. I did spend good time in my law college in Bombay (K.C.Law) making friends and eating sandwiches from Ramesh Sandwichwala. My life as a law student, was evening classes after work in my computer company’s administrative job. I attended classes which had good teachers and neglected other subjects. I passed the examinations with undistinguished marks and often found that I scored badly in subjects which I knew well by studying original texts. In those days, examiners had got used to answers mugged up from guides (three test papers) and original stuff may have fazed some of them. Suffice to say, the course did not prepare me for life in court, but I did learn a bit by tagging along with my father and his friends.

     

    What should a law student do, in your opinion, to shape up his profile for litigation?

    Practice simple things like public speaking and elocution. You would be surprised to see how badly some people express themselves in court, and how judges are grateful to any lawyer who can clearly state the problem, before attempting to persuade them to his side. Some experience of dramatics and the stage are also useful. Both Kapil Sibal and Rajeev Dhavan, had experience in theatre which went a long way towards making a courtroom presence.

     

    How important do you think Mooting and Academic Writing are for a Law Student aspiring to become an Advocate?

    Both are very important. Mooting helps you deconstruct issues, prepare memorials and briefs and present them to trained minds. Writing is even more important. An ability to clearly express oneself in writing, in simple sentences, is the hallmark of a good mind. While taking people on board, I am more likely to choose, someone who can give me a quick written note, than someone who can turn a wonderful phrase in conversation.

     

    After your enrolment at the Bar in 1989, you worked in Mumbai for a period of three years. How did these formative years mould you as a lawyer?

    They taught me about handling corporate client problems, and how to turn around work reasonably quickly. More importantly they taught me the value of friends in the profession and the constant peer-review that always accompanies life at the bar.

     

    You have a rich experience of working under Mr. G Ramaswamy, Senior Advocate and former Attorney General. You have also assisted several distinguished Senior Advocates at the Supreme Court. Please tell us about your work under them.

    Each senior advocate addressing the court, is essentially a performing artiste. At the end of the day, he is not so much concerned with the judgment which is the judge’s job. He is concerned that his performance was the best that could be summoned from within him and that it best expressed all the points in his client’s favour. Mr Ramaswamy had an amazing depth of knowledge and experience, which enabled him with a bare instruction on facts, to argue for hours and place a case in its entire legal perspective. He had the ability to hear a whispered phrase as an instruction from the advocate by his side, and to know exactly what was meant and what needed to be said. In other words, an amazing pickup on the fly. I find the same ability in Sibal and Rohatgi, as well as Salve and Fali Nariman. The latter two also share the breadth of learning that GR had, and Mr Nariman particularly is almost oracular in his wisdom. Among the others I have instructed Mr Sorabjee, stands out for his ability to hit all the right notes without making it seem too heavy, Mr Ashok Desai’s ability to paint a picture and scrap through to a conclusion without angering anyone is a gift to be envied. The late Goolam Vahanvati must be mentioned for his understated, efficient manner of delivery and his incredible ability to turn around written submissions and pleadings in a very short time.

     

    Many students aspire to practice at the Supreme Court and High Courts. Should a student first practise at the Trial Court to learn the nuances, or is it fine to start at a High Court itself?

    I’d say go wherever there is enough work to keep you occupied. Do not get hung up because you hang around the superior courts, do not feel low in the lower courts. A good grounding in the trial courts, stands you in good stead thereafter. Mr Ramaswamy spent 11 years in the trial courts before moving to the Madras High Court and his base in civil and criminal law, gave him an advantage over his peers who had been appellate court lawyers throughout.

     

    What are the differences that you see between a practice in a High Court and a practice in the Supreme Court?

    The Supreme Court has greater turnover and greater mortality. In the Supreme Court, you prepare a lot, only to see it destroyed in a two minute performance. High courts are more relaxed but more time consuming.

     

    What is your opinion on the recent judgement of the Supreme Court which upheld the ‘Collegium’ system?

    (Mr Hegde had appeared for Union of India In Re: Special Reference 1 of 1998 i.e. The Third Judges’ Appointment Case).

    I did assist Mr Sorabjee the attorney general in the Third Judges case. That judgment and the current one, all revolve around independence of the judiciary. Can we have independent judges, if their appointments are made by politicians? The court is part of the political system in a manner of speaking, how far can you keep routine politics away. Has insulating judges, resulted in the creation of a self-perpetuating jurocracy? My personal opinion is that the striking down of the NJAC, is a good blow for judicial independence, especially in an era of majoritarian politics.

     

    How effective, in your opinion, are Alternative Dispute Resolution mechanisms in International Law?

    (Mr Hegde has appeared before an International Arbitral Tribunal for the Union of India.)

    Well my case was the Government versus Suzuki Motor Corporation which was essentially a private contractual dispute. But in public international law, in the absence of pre-decided judicial forums, alternate dispute resolutions are often the only options available.

     

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    Could you elaborate on your experiences as an AOR for Government of Karnataka?

    (Mr Hegde has been an Advocate-on-Record for the Government of Karnataka at the Supreme Court for a period of ten years, during which he handled many sensational and landmark cases, like the Kaveri and Krishna Water Disputes, Rajkumar Kidnapping case, Swami Shraddhananda case etc.)

    It was personally exhausting, tough and immensely educative all at once. As long as one was not bothered about being adequately paid for the effort, working for the state made me the all-round lawyer that I am. I learnt Criminal law and indirect taxation on the job. A wealth of memories include a chief minister being hauled up for contempt, a chief secretary’s perjury prosecution being stayed, a godman or two being kept in jail for a long period of time. I remember early on Rajkumar being kidnapped and the state preparing to release his associates, till Justice Bharucha yelled, “If you can’t govern constitutionally, then quit”. A few years after the incident, some of the same associates, got death sentences in appeal, where the TADA court had given life imprisonment. So many memories require a book and not a question.

     

    Other than the Supreme Court, you have appeared before various fora, how is a practice before these Tribunals different? What is your opinion on “Tribunalisation”?

    (Mr. Hegde has appeared before many such tribunals as CESTAT, TDSAT and NGT.)

    Tribunals are more specialised areas and often the monetary impact is much heavier than normal courts. I do think that tribunalisation is the way to go, though courts have increasingly frequent misgivings. After all judges can’t know everything about complicated technical decisions, but experts in these fields can make decisions if judicial members control the fairness of the process.

     

    You are a designated Senior Advocate of the Supreme Court of India. How is the life of a Senior Advocate different from a normal Advocate? How do you manage the responsibility?

    A senior advocate is a bit like a taxi for hire, for day and date only. If the ride is not smooth he is unlikely to be hired again. But flippancy apart, the biggest responsibility is to give the client and the briefing lawyer, a pre-view of how the case is likely to be appear to the eyes of a judge. A good senior will in all probability leave you with a forecast of how the game will play out in the court and should advise you on your best options, including the negotiating of a settlement if one is possible. Unfortunately people come to seniors at the last minute to try for a win but not for the available reasonable option, of a realistic assessment of their chances in court.

     

    You are a well-known newspaper columnist and Television Panelist on pressing legal issues. What, in your opinion, is the future of legal journalism as a career, for aspiring people?

    There is a great demand for people who can decode legal processes and put it in simple terms that an ordinary viewer or reader can understand. We still have to develop a culture of great legal reporters in the mould of an Adam Liptak, a Joshua Rozenburg or a Dahlia Lithwick. Indian reporters, out of fear of contempt laws, often tend to get into bare bones reporting of fact, without too much accompanying analysis.

     

    Students tend to take up plush Corporate Firm jobs, as they find the prospect of an initial struggle at the Bar scary. What would be your message to them?

    They are right to choose whatever makes them comfortable. After all many of them are first generation lawyers, who have spent fortunes on their education and need to start earning as soon as possible. However a law school must provide you with the ability to make decisions and see them through to fruition. If litigation is your thing stick by it, keep working away, offer your services free if needed, to lawyers who are too busy or too tired to attend hearings. If you keep pegging away, cracks will appear in seemingly closed doors and you will make it. Keep going without getting disappointed or turning to drinks and the like, and you will find your niche from which to grow.

     

    What advice would like to share with our readers who are mostly young lawyers and law students?

    Be curious, read a lot, keep writing from time to time, but argue everything, every time, even if it is within yourself. For a lawyer, the unargued life is not worth living. Have fun and stay within the boundaries of truth. The world will accept you and find a use for you.

     

     

    This interview was taken by: Shreesha Kailankaje, IV year, GNLU, Gandhinagar

  • Ritwik Sahay, Partner, Jus Remedium, on building a Corporate/Commercial practice

    Ritwik Sahay, Partner, Jus Remedium, on building a Corporate/Commercial practice

    Ritwik Sahay qualified in law from Delhi University in 2008, prior to which he had attained a bachelor’s degree in Commerce. He has worked as an Advocate at firms like Trilegal and Dua Associates, with his specialization being Corporate Law. He currently heads the Corporate and Commercial team at Jus Remedium.

    In this interview, he talks to us about:

    • The selection of law as a career choice and the role Commerce had to play
    • Starting up Jus Remedium
    • The art of negotiations and liaisons
    • Identification of key areas of responsibilities and taking on assignments in various fields of specialization

     

    How would you like to introduce yourself to our readers?

    Hi, I am Ritwik Sahay, the Corporate Partner at Jus Remedium Law Offices. I am a law graduate from Delhi University and have completed C.S. (Executive). My core areas of practice include M&A, FDI, general corporate & commercial advisory, labour & employment, and corporate and regulatory compliances. I love reading and that helps me to improvise myself, on a personal as well as a professional front, on a regular basis. My success mantra is hard-work, honesty and collective growth.

     

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    Was Law your first choice as a career? What prompted you to take up this line of work?

    Well, Law was not my first choice as a career. I was aspiring for business administration but could not get through any ‘A’ grade business school. Basically, I started Law to compliment my CS syllabus, but gradually I fell in love with Law and pursued it as my main course. Most lawyers would agree when I say that Law is a challenging career that literally forces you to excel everyday if you want to be in the practice for a long period. I became fascinated towards Law practice after realising that this profession will not only provide me a platform to gain immense knowledge but will also give me opportunities to make a difference in the functioning of corporate sector.

     

    Did your Bachelors in Commerce in any way prompt you to choose Corporate Law, or further your interest in it?

    Yes, of course. I strongly believe that my commerce background not only prompted me to take up Corporate Law as a practice but also proved to be of great help in understanding the intricacies of corporate structure and requirement. Some of the commerce subjects like economics, accounts and business laws gave me a bigger horizon to understand  Corporate Law issues and measures to tackle them. I also believe that in the present era, legal and business requirements go hand in hand, and you cannot really segregate them especially if you are in Corporate Law practice. Having a commerce degree (and pursuing CS) literally mended my way toward adopting Corporate Law practice. Once you have been in this practice for 7-8 years, you tend to realise that having a good understanding of financial records of a company gives a cutting edge over others, and having a commerce background certainly helps you in decoding these financials records.

     

    What was your experience like during your stay in Delhi University? What were some of your biggest takeaways?

    Oh, it was a life-time experience staying in DU. I had come to DU from a small town in Bihar/Jharkhand and it was a quite a cultural shock to me initially when I was introduced to DU (during my graduation days). Gradually, DU started taking good care of me and all I had to do was to adapt to the circumstances. Law graduation from DU was, of course, a prestigious thing and I thoroughly enjoyed my days at Law Faculty. I still believe that the Law Faculty trains you to be hard-working, dedicated and innovative. The variety of students you find in Law Faculty will completely change your outlook towards life and your career. Moot courts were really helpful in understanding the importance of the research part of Law practice. Similarly, debate competition literally improved my negotiating skills. It is quite important that you keep participating in these activities during your college days. I had bagged a couple of awards in debate and moot-court competitions in Law Faculty.

     

    You refer to your ability to act as a liaison and your negotiation skills as some of your key skills. How do you think these have played a relevant role in your career?

    Well, I think liaising and negotiating skills are inseparable part of Corporate Law practice, and these are as important as your knowledge of laws. I am an ardent believer in the fact that if you cannot express or communicate your knowledge, your knowledge will not be useful. As Corporate Law practice largely involves finalising the terms of several agreements, it is not important only to draft these agreements but also to negotiate the terms with the other parties and to convince them to agree to your terms. If you do not have a strong negotiating skill (coupled with knowledge to back it up, of course), it would be difficult for you to get through any transaction. I also believe that adaptability is one of the significant factors that you must possess to enhance your negotiating skills. Likewise, liaising with different Government bodies to conclude a transaction is something which you cannot afford to ignore. It is necessary to understand that different Government bodies function in different styles and you have to adopt different measures to liaise with them.

     

    A lot of your work involved foreign investment. Do you think the current laws do a satisfactory job at safeguarding and promoting foreign investment?

    Foreign Investment is one of the most important aspects of Corporate Law practice. Majority of the Corporate Law Firms in India, these days, base their practice on foreign investments. As a firm, we are of the view that the current legal regime has been quite successful in attracting foreign investment. There are, of course, certain areas like labour and industrial laws, which – in my view – are archaic and can be improvised to make them simpler and practical, but a large number of current legislations are providing good opportunities to foreign investors to explore Indian market. Further, introduction of the new set of companies laws and bankruptcy & insolvency laws are a good sign which have already attracted the eye balls of foreign investors. Also, the liberalisation in the conditions for foreign investments (through amendments in the foreign exchange laws), on a regular basis, not only signify the Government’s intention to make India a better place to invest in, but also make the investment procedure simpler and smoother. At present, one of the biggest challenges is to eliminate the uncertainty regarding the tax laws (in terms of Goods and Service Tax laws and Direct Tax Code) which, I think, are causing the foreign investors being overcautious.

     

    Did your internships and/or prior work experience in any way aid you in the furtherance of these?

    Actually, being a commerce graduate and pursuing CS, I always had interest in corporate laws, and the kind of internships I undertook pushed me to take up Corporate Law practice.

     

    You have worked with issues regarding benefits available to employees under various labour welfare organisations etc. What are your thoughts regarding the Labour Laws present in India today?

    Most of the labour laws in India are welfare legislations and were enacted to protect the interests of labourers to a large extent. The Indian Judiciary, too, have time and again been proven to be labour friendly because of the fact that labourers are considered to be having week bargaining power vis-a-vis their engagements with corporate entities. However, with the evolution of trade unions in India, there has been an immense shift in the bargaining power of the labour force which at times gets exercised in unwanted manners. If you see, a majority of the labour laws in India have failed to adapt the new trend and that causes a regular tussle between the corporate entities and them. Further, these labour laws are so scattered that it is really difficult for a corporate entity to be fully complied. Segregation between Central legislations and State legislations vis-a-vis the labour laws has further added to the complexity of these laws. We, as a firm, strongly believe that now is the time when the Labour Laws need overhauling to make them simpler and practical so at to cater the needs of the labours but at the same time making the compliances easier and smoother for corporate entities.

     

    What made you decide to start your independent practise Jus Remedium? What are some key differences you have faced in terms of dealing with clients while working under a firm, and being an independent practitioner?

    I think it is broadly a matter of choice whether you wish to continue working with a law firm or want to go independent – both has its pros and cons. For me, I think it was an urge to develop my own philosophy of working which sort of compelled me to start Jus Remedium. Of course, it was a tough decision to leave a settled career in Trilegal and start an independent practice, but it was a bit of self-belief and the support of family and clients-cum-friends that allowed me to go for it.

    I did not find much difference in dealing with clients because of the fact that I have been dealing with similar clients for a substantial period of time while I was in a law firm. One prominent difference would be the added responsibility that you not only have to execute the work but also to develop a relationship with the clients directly to earn works. Initially, it was little difficult to realise that we are a start-up firm and we have to adjust to the clients’ requirement in terms fees and deadlines. But, we adapted quickly and the clients are quite happy with the quality and turn-around-time we offer to them.

     

    In the short while since you have founded Jus Remedium, you have built a significant network of big corporate clients. What are the key factors to building such a clientele and maintaining their trust?

    These days, competition amongst law firms is acute, and hence it becomes important that your clients are satisfied with the quality of your work. It is not important only to win new clients but also to maintain a healthy relationship with these clients, and this is possible only if they feel safe in your hands. There are several factors which should be focussed on while you are developing your clientele, including your expertise and acumen to understand clients’ specific requirements. Additionally, you have to make your clients feel important irrespective of its size and the industry it belongs to. As a start-up firm, our philosophy is to provide quality work to our clients within a flexible turn-around-time, at a highly competitive price.

     

    Please share with us your experience with identifying and shouldering Key-Responsibility Areas with regards to assignments in a myriad of fields. How did you go about such a mammoth task?

    Basically, I enjoy identifying and shouldering responsibilities- be it towards clients or other lawyers. It has been quite a journey for me from being an associate to being a partner, and it has really helped me to understand the ground level issues to top level issues. As regards the legal assignments, I strongly believe that you would be able to give your 100% only if you get a sense of attachment with the assignments. It is easy to convince others on any issue but you should always try to convince yourself first before discussing it with others. Once you are convinced with your view, you would have a solid logic to back it up.

     

    What message would you like to share with our readers?

    Always stick to the fundamentals. Never opt for any shortcuts. Law is such a profession where you have to grow on a daily basis and be updated with the changes around. Since these days, laws are so dynamic: it becomes all the more important to be aware about all the amendments in the legislations you are practicing. My candid suggestion to the readers would be to focus on developing analytical and reasoning skills besides adopting an attitude of getting into the depth of every matter.

  • Sangeeta Lakhi, Partner, Rajani Associates, on leading a practice in Capital Markets

    Sangeeta Lakhi, Partner, Rajani Associates, on leading a practice in Capital Markets

    Sangeeta Lakhi qualified in Law in 1993 and possesses an experience of over 20 years in the legal industry. She has worked as an Associate at Crawford Bayley and is at present a Partner at Rajani Associates. She has been handling the International Capital Markets practice of the firm since 2004 for which she has been recognized as a ‘Leading Lawyer for Capital Markets’ by Legal 500.

    Sangeeta has recently completed 105 issues of GDRs, FCCBs and QIPs, each of them full-fledged transactions, handled by her. Each transaction has been unique and no one transaction has been the same as the other. Sangeeta has handled these issues for companies in almost all sectors, whether they be pharma, textiles, oil, manufacturing, service, etc.

    In this interview, she talks to us about:

    • Choosing law as a profession and changes in the legal sphere since she graduated in 1993.
    • Her career decisions.
    • Working in the corporate sector and her specialization.
    • Advice to students about the Corporate Sector and prioritizing.

     

    How would you introduce yourself, given that most of our readers are young law students & young lawyers?

    I am a happy lawyer. I love my work and am constantly looking out for more challenges.

     

    What incidents, influences or interests prompted you to think of law as a career? If not law, what would you have considered for a career?

    At first I was not serious about law and just wanted to study some more. However, after I started working at a law firm and on assignments, I developed a liking for the field and the challenges that each assignment contains and the satisfaction that I get upon their completion. I love to travel so if I hadn’t become a lawyer, I would have been an air hostess!

     

    What has your experience with legal education in this country been like and how relevant do you feel it has been to your profession after attaining your LL.B in 1993?

    The legal education in our country is improving and I am very proud and happy about it.  I am happy with my education and what I’ve achieved before I started work in 1993. I did my B.Com and then did an MBA and law, not to mention other small courses along the way. All of these have shaped my career and outlook towards people and the world.

     

    How competitive would you say the legal profession was when you entered it, has it changed since then?

    Not very! A lot has changed now. We hear of new law firms springing up every month and it is constantly getting more and more competitive.

     

    What led you to a practice in Capital Markets as your area of speciality?

    In 2004 when the market was booming, I chose to work on international capital markets, in which I have completed 105 issues. When the markets fell in 2008 and deals in international capital markets became scarce, I went back to what I was doing prior to 2004, i.e. corporate work.

     

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    Did you always prefer corporate practice what thought do you have for litigation?

    Although, I have done some litigation, my preference has always been on the corporate side.

     

    Please tell us a bit about your time at Crawford and Bayley.

    My years with Crawford Bayley & Co. were very good and taught me many things, not just law. My senior, Mr. Suresh Talwar was the best teacher I could have asked for, and I have learnt a lot from him.

     

    What prompted the shift from Crawford Bayley to your current Firm?

    I guess I was looking for a change of work. For Rajani it was just the idea of supporting and growing the firm from its inception.

     

    What were the biggest obstacles and challenges faced by the firm during the initial days?

    At the beginning we were a start-up and did not have a brand which motivated us to prove ourselves with our hard work and dedication and win clients’ confidence and appreciation.

     

    Were there any trade-offs?

    None. I am a workaholic.

     

    How do you balance your professional life with your personal life given the heavily demanding working hours of the profession you have chosen?

    It is just a matter of priority. I ensure that both my professional life and my personal life get due attention.

     

    In dealing with clients within and beyond the domestic markets, what do you personally believe have been your greatest accomplishments through the 105 issues of GDRs, FCCBs, and QIPs you have dealt with so far?

    Each transaction has been unique and has had its own challenges. In dealing with the number of clients, merchant bankers and lawyers across the globe, I have made new friends and we receive, as well as, provide referral clients to each other.

     

    What are your plans for your career path in the future both presently and in the long term?

    To continue to work hard and be recognised as one of the Magic Circle Law Firms in India.

     

    What would be your advice to law students and young lawyers looking forward to make a mark in the industry?

    This field is not easy. It requires a lot of hard work and dedication. You must be serious about your career and be ready to deal with various kinds of clients.

     

    What would your parting advice be to our readers?

    Don’t forget to enjoy life!

  • Amit Cowshish, Partner, Dua Associates, on practicing in Defence Law and serving as a Financial Advisor (Acquisition) in the Ministry of Defence

    Amit Cowshish, Partner, Dua Associates, on practicing in Defence Law and serving as a Financial Advisor (Acquisition) in the Ministry of Defence

    Amit Cowshish, served the Indian Defence Accounts Service in various capacities and retired in 2012. Having studied M.A. and M.Phil in Political Science from the Jawaharlal Nehru University, and qualified in Law from Delhi University, Amit had also received a Diploma in Alternative Dispute Resolution from the Indian Law Institute.

    amit-cowshish-2Amit went on to serve on deputation with the Ministry of Defence, first as Under Secretary and later as Additional Financial Advisor & Joint Secretary and Financial Advisor (Acquisition) & Additional Secretary. He also served as Commissioner for Departmental Inquiries on deputation with the Central Vigilance Commission. He is a presently a Distinguished Fellow with the Indian Institute for Defence Studies and Analyses, and is presently a Partner with Dua Associates, Advocates and Solicitors.

    In this interview, he talks to us about:

    • Working in the arena of Public Administration;
    • His work with the Defence Accounts Department;
    • His responsibilities with the Minsitry of Defence; and
    • His post-retirement transition to a life in corporate law.

     

    What influenced you to choose law as your profession? Where did you pursue the same?

    Law runs in the family. My father was a lawyer, and so was his father. Both my daughters are lawyers, as well. I had great admiration for the profession right from my early days in school. Destiny took me elsewhere, but after retirement I have returned to the fold, as it were.

    I studied law at the evening centre of the Delhi University while I was in service.

     

    You hold a pre-degree diploma in the Russian and Persian languages. How did you develop an interest in learning languages?

    Apart from Hindi and English, we were taught Punjabi at school.  I picked up Urdu as it was the language used by a large segment of the local population, and used in the courts. That got me interested in languages. So, when I got an opportunity, I decided to learn a couple of foreign languages as well.

     

    What steered you into the area of public administration?

    These are institutes where serving government officers are sent for mid-career courses. I was fortunate to have been sent for the courses run by IIPA (Indian Institute of Public Administration) and NDC (National Defence College).

     

    Do tell us about your journey as part of the Defence Accounts Department.

    I got the opportunity to serve at different stations; travelled far and wide within India; gained vast experience in financial management in defence.

     

    What were your main responsibilities as the Controller of Defence Accounts?

    Controllers of Defence Accounts are responsible for various functions related to accounting, payment, audit and financial advice in relation to the military establishments located within the jurisdiction of the organizations they head.

     

    What was the biggest challenge you faced in your role?

    Being a finance person is, in itself, the biggest challenge in any organization!

     

    What were the different tasks involved in the posts of an Under Secretary, Additional Financial Advisor & Joint Secretary, and Financial Advisor (Acquisition) & Additional Secretary?

    As Under Secretary, I was responsible for matters related to pension policy for the armed forces. As Additional Financial Advisor, my work was related to financial matters concerning the organizations assigned to me as well as defence planning and budget.

    As Financial Advisor (Acquisition), I was associated with all capital acquisitions for the armed forces and the Indian Coast Guard.

     

    How did you come to be associated you with the drafting of the Defence Procurement Manual 2009? Did having a legal qualification help with the same?

    This task was assigned to me, probably because at that point of time I was associated with revenue procurements. Yes, my legal qualifications did help.

     

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    How is it that you came to join Dua Associates as a Partner?

    I joined Dua Associates after my retirement from the Indian Defense Accounts Service in 2012, to keep myself engaged in meaningful work.

     

    Was it difficult to adapt to a corporate firm after having worked for long in public administration?

    The transition was smooth; I did not face any difficulty.

     

    Defence being a very niche sector what would be your advice to young lawyers working in defence matters?

    There is not much of a difference as regards keeping abreast of the latest developments whether one is handling the defence sector or any other sector. To make a beginning, one has to develop general familiarity with the subject, study the existing policies and procedures, follow the developments reported in the media and law journals, keep an eye on the official announcements, and pay special attention to the judgements concerning one’s areas of interest. Attending seminars and other events related to defence matters also helps.

     

    Do you work only on defence related projects at Dua?

    No, the work I do is not confined to defence related projects.

     

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    Would you consider taking a few lectures on Defence law and material procurement if invited?

    Certain statutes like the Army Act, the Air Force Act, the Navy Act and the Armed Forces (Special Powers) Act are specific to the armed forces. There are other statues, rules and regulations like the Industries (Development and Regulation) Act, the Companies Act, and policies concerning FDI and exports, etc., which also have a bearing on legal issues concerning the defence sector. However, there is no specific law concerning defence procurement/acquisition by the Ministry of Defence. Defence purchases are primarily governed by the Defence Procurement Procedure and Defence Procurement Manual.

    I would be happy to talk on defence procurement policies and procedures of the Indian Ministry of Defence.

     

    Being a very niche sector what would be your advice to young lawyers working in defence matters?

    Broadly, legal professionals can contribute with regard to service and contractual matters. It is important that those who are interested in these areas not only keep themselves updated about the applicable laws, rules and procedures, but also acquire a good understanding of the organisational ethos of the armed forces, coast guard, border roads, etc., as well as acquaint themselves with the functioning of the defence industry.

  • Divyakant Lahoti, Advocate on Record, on quitting law firm and setting up independent practice

    Divyakant Lahoti, Advocate on Record, on quitting law firm and setting up independent practice

    Divyakant Lahoti graduated from University School of Law and Legal Studies (GGS Indraprastha University, Delhi) in the year 2008. At present he is a third generation lawyer, an Advocate on Record, a dedicated and driven lawyer with an LL.M. qualification in International Commercial Law earned at King’s College London and experience within a wide range of settings.

    In this interview he talks to us about:

    • His experience working with Justice R.C. Lahoti, Former Chief justice of India.
    • The procedure to apply in King’s College, London.
    • Why he specialized in International Commercial Law and IPR.
    • The biggest hurdles in his early days of independent practice.

     

    How would you like to introduce yourself to our readers?

    I am a third generation lawyer and an Advocate on Record. Since my childhood I was sure that there is no other enterprising and satisfying career option than law. From the early days of my childhood, my career aspiration was to become a true lawyer having a sound knowledge of socio-legal disciplines and related proficiencies so as to make a positive impact on society by taking up a responsible position in the legal practise. My father Justice K. K. Lahoti’s hard work yet smooth-sailing lifestyle as an advocate and then as a High Court Judge appealed to my childhood dreams. My perspective on life changed when I closely observed my father work as an advocate in his office attached to our house. I could closely observe an advocate’s profession and his life. What drew me to this profession was the respect one earns and the satisfaction one derives from advising his clients and securing them justice. Both as an advocate and later as a judge, in my father I saw live-in-action honesty, integrity and devotion to duty, giving me an opportunity to imbibe these rare qualities.

    My entrance into this profession began after pursuing 5-year LL.B. (Honors) from my alma mater University School of Law and Legal Studies (GGS Indraprastha University, Delhi) in the year 2008. My quench for specialised legal knowledge persuaded me to attain an LL.M. from King’s College London, one of the top universities in the World.

     

    How did you go about your application to King’s College London (KCL)? How different was the study environment in that university?

    In a fiercely competitive environment, the only thing which looks simple is the procedure to apply. You need only three things at that time – an IELTS (International English Language Testing System) Score of 7.5 and above out of 9, a Statement of Purpose (SOP) and Curriculum Vitae (CV) along with the Application Form. However, each of them requires days, if not months, of preparation and persistence –to revise, review and refresh.  IELTS is easy to crack for those who are fluent in English and had English as a medium of instruction in their school and/or college. A few days of preparation is good enough to score the benchmark. The problem lies in drafting, structuring, tailoring and reviewing the SOP and CV. The entire labour lies in presenting a SOP and CV that can stand out and catch the eye of the University who is screening thousands of such equally good and well written SOPs and CVs. However, the procedure keeps on evolving and students are advised to read the updated procedure and policy before applying to the law school.

    One can choose a particular area of expertise which is taught by leading practitioner(s) in that field. The advantage of being taught by such Professors/Practitioners, who are considered authorities in their fields of law, is to provide the student with root information along with innovative and problem solving methods with a focus on a comparative and international outlook.

    At King’s College, the LL.M program offers a wide range of modules that enables the student to grasp a thorough knowledge of the increasingly important areas of law and their concepts and application. King’s College London is a place which is inspired and instructions are imparted by leading experts and the student receives outstanding cultural, research and career opportunities in the very heart of London.

     

    Which one would you say is better – LL.M from abroad or from India?

    Well, that’s a matter of personal choice coupled with the budget of the student. One of the key reasons for me to pursue LL.M. abroad was its duration of one year. Now, many leading Colleges in India are offering LL.M. programmes of one year. Since this duration gap is bridged, the second question that comes to mind is the quality of education and the expenses for pursuing such a course from India or abroad. Undoubtedly, going abroad is more expensive because of the high College Fee, rent for accommodation and living expenses. The student needs to choose the university wisely depending on multiple factors like the area of specialisation, the professors imparting the specialised knowledge, the university ranking and job prospects after completing the course.

    I personally believe that any College, which has an intellectually rich faculty, a formative environment and rigorous campus discipline on one hand and is collaborative on the other, together with the student’s passion and commitment, is an ideal recipe for success and accomplishment. A graduate from a mediocre college may shine and reach the pinnacle of his profession while a student from a leading college may find it tough to earn even a comfortable living. It all depends on how the student capitalises on the given opportunities during the course and develops himself as a professional. Of course, learning in a good educational institution and from good faculty do have their impact.

     

    Please share your experience working with Justice R.C. Lahoti, Former Chief Justice of India.

    Learning from, and working with, a living legend is a dream come true. I had the golden opportunity to work with him, on various arbitration and opinion matters, after his retirement as the Chief Justice of India. I have not only learnt the art of advocacy but also lessons of life from him. Success in your profession gives name and power but the qualities of character give a good name and reputation. A gentleman professional is respected and remembered. Such success can be reached by different paths but not by changing paths along the way. According to him, reading spiritual, motivational, inspirational books and biographies/autobiographies is an essential source to augment the knowledge and improvise one’s own personality.

    As a student and then in the early years of my professional career, I had the opportunity of living with Justice Lahoti as a family member. I have closely watched his routine and working style. Working and reading are his passion. He reads a lot, both literature and law. He is an early riser. From the morning till late in the evening, he is busy studying, preparing for arbitration matters which are coming up, dictating orders and awards, and checking and reviewing the dictation well before circulating the same to fellow arbitrators and parties. He has earned recognition for his oration. His speeches and social lectures, cultural and educational event are also prepared by him in advance. The lessons which I have learnt from him are: (1) work is worship; (2) it is never too late to learn; and (3) if you have accepted an assignment, put your heart into it; never compromise on anything less than the best.

     

    What are the basics of a legal notice and how can one learn to draft one?

    A Legal Notice is the first step to set the civil justice system into motion. Drafting a legal notice is an art and needs the same skill as drafting a suit. It demands legal knowledge, expertise and experience. You need to understand the entire factual background, evidence in hand, the need of the client and the law(s) involved. Once this preparation is done, then the lawyer must proceed to draft the legal notice. A notice is a way which lays down the foundation for future attacks or defence. The tenor and tone of the notice should be proper – not too aggressive. A properly drafted Legal Notice or its reply can avoid litigation or the same could help the parties settle the matter through mediation at a pre-litigation stage or can assist the court in adjudicating the matter. On this subject, one of the must-have books for every lawyer is Mogha’s Law of Pleadings in India.

     

    How did you decide to specialize in International Commercial Law and IPR?

    In this growing economy, it is indispensable to keep abreast with latest developments in  financial and commercial law to deal with the changing market conditions. Needless to say, to practice law in the corporate and commercial markets today demands niche and specialist knowledge, robust common sense, analytical and problem solving skills with the ability to deliver pragmatic solutions to the clients. Moreover, LL.M. in International Commercial Law provides an impetus for developing the ability to understand, analyse, and solve complex and unprecedented problems. In a corporate and commercial environment, a close proximity with leading legal systems is sine qua non which can be gained by pursuing specialisation course(s). Specialization in IPR was out of sheer interest. I was awarded the Microsoft IPR Scholarship during my graduation for authoring an article on copyrights. Thereafter, I studied an Advance Course on Copyrights and Trademarks from the World Intellectual Property Rights Organisation (WIPO). Pursuant thereto, WIPO had offered me a full scholarship to pursue a 2-year course in Specialisation in IPR from the University of South Africa (UNISA) and WIPO which I completed in the year 2011.

    The knowledge gathered from these specialised courses is immensely helpful in advising clients, and drafting commercial contracts.

     

    Describe your experience at Luthra&Luthra Law Offices. What led you to shift from the corporate sector to Independent law practice?

    Luthra and Luthra had provided me with an action packed litigation experience, be it 2G or Defence Scam, from heavy stake commercial arbitrations to high profile telecom litigation. Under the able guidance of Mr.Rajeev Luthra, Mr.H.S. ‘Bobby’ Chandhoke, Mr. Siddhartha Datta and Mr. Manu Yadav, I sailed smoothly through the pressures of strenuous and complex litigation. Irrespective of such work pressure, the environment in the firm was always conducive, cordial and friendly. I have made many friends for life at this place and learnt many lessons of professionalism and client interaction. Indeed, it is a Tier 1 Law Firm which values the work and sincerity of its members and also feels concerned for their life and career.

    The Firm gives you the necessary skills and experience to commence an independent legal practise. However, what you would require is to hone your entrepreneurship capabilities. It was a well thought of decision to switch from a leading Law Firm to open up your own firm, though it is a life changing event as it comes with much heavier responsibilities which are all on your shoulders. One of the major advantages of going independent is that there are more opportunities to appear and argue the matters yourself before the Court/Tribunal and make yourself a brand. Such an opportunity is rare in leading law firms where there is a tendency to engage senior advocates even for simple issue(s).  Moreover, in an independent practise, you tend to handle more clients simultaneously unlike in a firm where you would be assigned limited matters/clients. Undoubtedly, there is more flexibility in an independent practise as compared to working in a firm. You are the master of your own time and have the choice of choosing the matters to involve yourself. However, in the initial years of practice, you tend to do whatever comes your way to sustain a living. Once you are established, then you have an option to do or refuse to do certain matters or develop a specialised area of practice.

     

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    What do you think are the biggest hurdles and challenges in the early days of independent practice?

    One of the biggest hurdles, in setting up your own independent practice, is to have an office, with the amenities and library, preferably near the Court Complex. The purpose of having an office close to the court would be to ensure that you reach the court on time and travel time is minimised so that you can use that time in more productive and meaningful work. The next step is to pitch yourself by informing your friends, acquaintances and your professional colleagues that you have started your own independent practice and your services are now available for private clients. Then, hiring a suitable clerk who has reasonable knowledge of court procedures and filings.

    Establishing your own brand, among the clients and court-rooms, is the foremost real task. An independent practice encompasses not only getting new clients but also retaining them and recover your outstanding fees from them. It is a challenge in itself. A lot of productive time is wasted in recovering the professional fee which is also important or else, your labour is wasted. Another hurdle is running around different courts and forums for the matters listed on the same day. To overcome this hurdle, the only possible solution is to engage competent junior lawyer(s) who are willing to prepare and argue the matter, if the need arises, before the court.

     

    What would be your message to our readers?

    There are ample opportunities for every lawyer and youngster who should strive for such opportunities and excel. The profession offers humongous prospects for those who are willing to sacrifice their comfort and leave their complacency to make their mark in this field. Due to the changing economy, the chances of young lawyers are enhanced as new chambers are being opened up or existing chambers are merging resulting in larger clientele, bigger premises and pooling of resources such as libraries. These chambers are looking for enterprising younger lawyers who can whole-heartedly devote their expertise and time for productive, qualitative and quantitative work.

    However, youngsters are advised to do their research on such chambers/firms, make enquiry into the status of the lawyers/partners of the chamber/firm and the kind and amount of work they are handling. Some of these chambers may not offer good prospects. For those who are looking forward to litigation practise, it is indispensable for them to join such chambers which have matters regularly before the courts/tribunals so that they can gain experience in court crafts and the art of advocacy from their seniors apart from learning necessary drafting knowledge, the art of cross-examination and the art of addressing judges.

    After choosing the right chamber/firm, the next step is to enhance the ability to communicate.  The objective is to make the Judge understand the case. Youngsters should practice speaking up clearly with modulation. Simultaneously, they should also be able to present the case to the Court/Forum lucidly and with brevity in a humble way, eschewing irrelevant facts and irrelevant arguments.  Undoubtedly, courtesy towards the Judge and court manners, including wearing clean and presentable robes, are of paramount significance.

  • Abhishek Sudhir, Dean, IFIM Law College, on qualifying in law from the UK and on legal academics

    Abhishek Sudhir, Dean, IFIM Law College, on qualifying in law from the UK and on legal academics

    Abhishek Sudhir graduated from The University of Birmingham in 2008 and went on to pursue an LL.M at the University College of London. While there, he pursued Civil Litigation, Jurisprudence, Intellectual Property Law, and Company Law as a part of his general LL.M. His British legal education ended with a BPTC for procedural training in 2011 to appear before a Court in the English system.

    Having returned to India, he pursued academia and teaching at Jindal Global Law School as among the student’s favorite professor. Following his departure from the same, he was recruited as the Dean for IFIM Law College in Bangalore. He has also published on a wide variety of topics and was called upon to deposed before the Parliamentary Standing Committee on Law and Justice on the Judicial Appointments Bill.

    In his interview, he talks about;

    • What drove him to pursue the profession
    • His experience with a legal education in the UK
    • The differences between the two systems and the teaching styles
    • His journey as a law student, and subsequently as a barrister
    • The necessary traits and qualities required by legal professionals and law students today

     

    How would you like to introduce yourself to our readers?

    Well, I’m 29 years old. I currently serve as Dean at IFIM Law College which is located in my hometown and India’s IT capital Bangalore. I hold three degrees in law, all from the United Kingdom. I am a Barrister from Gray’s Inn, London and I am also enrolled with the Karnataka State Bar Council as an Advocate. I am a freelance journalist and write most often for Scroll, an online news publication. I follow/support the Indian cricket team and Arsenal, two entities that have caused me a significant amount of pain and suffering over the years!

     

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    Tell us about your childhood and pre-college life. Was it your lifelong dream to be in the legal profession?

    I had a very unconventional childhood. I was raised by my maternal grandfather, who was and continues to be a source of immense support. I was obsessed with cricket and made it my life’s mission to play for India one day, quite an unrealistic dream that my grandfather supported by sending me to yearlong coaching camps for about 6-7 years. When I was about 14, I gave up on this ambition as I was nowhere close to making it and decided to “grow up”.

    Around this time I fell in love with “The Practice”, a popular American TV show that you could say was the “Suits” of my generation. The Practice, unlike Suits which has nothing to do with the law, delved into the intricacies of being a trial lawyer in the United States. The handling of the rules of evidence, the art of cross-examination and its depiction of criminal trials floored me. The cast was brilliant and they just looked so cool when they all walked the corridors of the courtroom in their fancy suits. It was the swagger associated with being a lawyer, at least in popular culture, which drew me to the profession.

     

    Your legal journey started in 2005 and that too from a foreign law school. Why did you choose a foreign law school over national law schools?

    The answer is very simple: I did not make it to any of the national law schools! Those days there was no CLAT, there were only five national law schools and you had to write individual entrance tests. I prepared for the exam with a friend of mine from school, but both of us were lackadaisical in our approach to the exams. The difference was that he was among the top 5 ranks in both the NLS Bangalore and NALSAR exams, while I was nowhere close to him.

    Not making it to one of the national law schools took its toll on me and I felt I had to prove that I belonged, that I was good enough, and not making it was just an aberration. I chose the University of Birmingham to do a 3-year LL.B for two principal reasons: first, they gave me a generous scholarship, and second, it was recognised by the Bar Council of India. So I started out in 2005 to redeem myself for the poor performance in the entrance tests, by leaving home at the age of 19 and starting afresh. It was a life-changing decision and it paid off handsomely.

     

    How is the curriculum of a foreign law school different from an Indian one?

    That’s a slightly tricky question to answer as there is no uniformity in curriculum design in Indian law schools. If I were to compare the approach to curriculum design at a State University with that adopted at an English law school, I would say there is quite a huge difference. For starters, English law schools do not teach any procedural subjects. They focus entirely on substantive law, as there are separate professional courses [Legal Practice Course (LPC) for those who want become solicitors and the Bar Professional Training Course (BPTC) for those who want to become barristers] that teach procedural law.

    Another stark difference is the emphasis on reading articles and papers written in academic journals as opposed to merely focusing on the sections in any given Act or chapters in a textbook. One further area of divergence is the minimal amount of time allocated to in-class teaching. In-class lectures are usually delivered to 100-150 students at a time. This is always followed up with tutorials where students, in groups of 10 to 15, are expected to engage with a hypothetical problem based on the in-class lecture. These tutorials are about an hour long and are usually conducted by PhD or post-doctoral students.

    There is no concept of rote learning at a foreign law school and the approach is very much centered on directed learning. The expectation is that the student will come prepared to class. That being said, no one (including the lecturers and tutors) cares if you do not do the required reading. The student is treated as a responsible adult and it is this ethos that is typified in the curriculum design.

     

    Tell us briefly about your law school experience.

    I attended three different law schools during my time in the U.K., but I would like to dwell on the three years I spent doing an LL.B at the University of Birmingham, which is one of England’s older centres of higher learning. The first year I was like a fish out of water as I was studying complex subjects like Jurisprudence and Land Law. In my first semester I was hauled up for plagiarism; I simply did not know what a citation was and I did not have the ability to construct an argument of my own. I remember getting 38 out of 100 in my very first research paper and failing European Union law by a couple of marks; those were trying times.

    In my first year I worked several part-time jobs, went out most nights and hardly ever went to class. I changed my lifestyle completely and this bore dividends as my results started to pick up in the second year. I went from getting an upper second (second class) to getting an upper first (first class) in all my subjects. This trend continued into my third year and I got a first (distinction) in every subject. I was awarded a distinction in the dissertation on Hindu Law that I wrote in my final year and this gave me immense satisfaction. I had come a long way from not knowing what plagiarism was.

    The credit for my transformation goes not to me or any professor, but to the structures in place at the University. England’s higher education system, central to which is the curriculum design, is geared to ensure that a diligent student succeeds and is given every possible opportunity to excel. It’s quite simple really: work hard or fall by the wayside.

     

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    Where did you pursue your LL.M from? What considerations should one keep in mind before deciding whether and where to do an LL.M?

    I had LL.M offers from the University of Warwick and University College London (UCL). At the time, Dr. Upendra Baxi was teaching at Warwick and this was a huge attraction. Nevertheless I chose UCL, primarily because it had a richer history and pedigree than Warwick, in addition to being located in the legal capital of the world, London. UCL also had a much bigger selection of subjects to choose from, with faculty from Oxford, King’s College and Cambridge teaching on the LL.M as visiting professors.

    The standard piece of advice people give LL.M aspirants is “make sure you are clear about which area you want to specialize in and chose the University that excels in your chosen area”. I disagree with this line of thought.

    If you have completed 5 years of legal study in India, then doing an LL.M from the U.K. or any foreign University is likely to be a completely new and alien experience. While I had three years in the U.K. before doing an LL.M, most students from India are thrown into the deep end within a few days of starting the LL.M. So it’s really important that you pick a University that has a track record of taking in Indian students and helping them acclimatize. Some Universities that come to mind are Warwick, King’s College, UCL, Cardiff, National University of Singapore, George Washington,  and NYU in the United States.

    Also, choose a General LL.M as it will give you the flexibility to study a wide array of subjects. Unless you’re from the top 5 NLU’s, it is unlikely that you have been exposed to Anglo-American teaching pedagogy and studying diverse subjects will give you much more exposure then studying four subjects dealing only with intellectual property or corporate law.

     

    After completing your education, you qualified as a Barrister-at-law. Tell us about the procedure and your experience.

    Becoming a Barrister was the fulfillment of a childhood fantasy. History was my favourite subject in school and I really enjoyed studying about the freedom movement. Some of the titans of India’s struggle for freedom, like Nehru, Gandhi, Jinnah and Sardar Patel were all Barristers. So I wanted to be one too! It seems quite silly now, but about a decade ago it was a real ambition of mine.

    In 2005, I decided to become a student-member of Gray’s Inn. Each aspiring Barrister must belong to an Inn, which is essentially his professional home and “dine” at the Inn 12 times. Historically, members of each Inn ate together, lived on the grounds of the Inn and, most importantly, worked together. I chose Gray’s as it is the smallest of the four Inns. Ambedkar, constitutional scholar K.T. Shah, former Chief Justice A.N. Ray and former Speaker of the Lok Sabha Somnath Chatterjee were all members of Gray’s Inn.

    In addition to becoming a member of the Inn, I enrolled in the Bar Professional Training Course (BPTC), which is a rigorous diploma programme that one has to complete before being “called” to the Bar. The BPTC was a once in a lifetime experience, as I was trained for countless hours in advocacy, negotiation, client counseling, examination-in-chief and cross-examination of witnesses. In July 2011, a ceremony was held at the Hall in Gray’s Inn, where I was “published” Barrister. My name appeared in The Times the next day. It was really special.

     

    What kinds of cases were mainly seen in the courts of England and what was your main area of practice there? What, if any, are the differences between England and India’s judicial system?

    My first job in England saw me working for a firm that dealt with civil litigation. Most of the cases concerned personal injury, the proverbial “slip and fall” cases. I then moved on to work for pro bono organisations that helped individuals who had court hearings but did not have legal representation. I got to take part in proceedings before the Queen’s Bench (High Court) and the Court of Appeal. Finally, I represented clients before the Social Security and Employment Tribunals as a trainee Barrister.

    Believe it or not, the common man in India has far greater access to legal representation than people in England. Litigation costs are unbelievably high and lawyers lack the human touch. Individuals who do not have the resources generally don’t get their day in court and are at the mercy of the legal aid authority. That being said, once you do get your day in court in England, you are more or less guaranteed a timely outcome. The overhaul of the Civil Procedure Rules in England has ensured this, whereas we in India, with our archaic and broken Code of Civil Procedure, 1908, continue to move at a snail’s pace.

     

    After around 6-7 years you came back to India to pursue you a career in legal academia. Was it pre-planned or was there some other reason?

    Coming back to India was pre-planned. I always wanted to practice in India. In January 2012, I passed a set of qualifying exams conducted by the Bar Council of India for people like me who were Indian nationals with foreign law degrees. In June 2012, I was enrolled as an Advocate, but due to some health issues my career had to take a backseat for almost 2 years. In January 2014, I joined the Jindal Global Law School (JGLS) as a research associate and was promoted to assistant professor in three months. It turned out to be the most rewarding experience of my career thus far, with great highs and some lows.

     

    You have deposed before the Parliamentary Standing Committee on Law and Justice on the Judicial Appointments Bill. Tell us about your experience.

    Being given an opportunity to depose before the Committee restored my faith in Indian democracy. I wrote a 20 page memo to the Committee, with suggestions on how they could improve the functioning of the proposed National Judicial Appointments Commission. I appeared before the Committee and had the opportunity to interact with the likes of Ram Vilas Paswan, who I must say is one of the most articulate politicians I have come across. The Chairman of the Committee sought me out after the proceedings and complimented me on my performance. It’s an experience that I look back on very fondly.

     

    You have various publications in academic journals and news organizations. What skills should one develop to write good research papers and articles?

    The only way you can become a better writer is by writing continuously. If you think it, write about it. And make sure you get published. Only when you publish can you gauge what the wider world thinks of your writing, as feedback is invaluable. I write an email with the same amount of thought and effort that I put into writing an article for Scroll or The Hindu. Everything you write should pay homage to the printed word, which is a thing of beauty. Even when I use Whatsapp, I craft my messages carefully!

     

    You have recently been appointed Dean at IFIM Law College. Tell us about your plans for the law school going forward.

    I am trying to implement everything I learnt in the U.K. at IFIM Law College with the support and guidance of the founder Mr. Sanjay Padode and the Principal Dr. Venugopal. Two things distinguish IFIM Law College are our emphasis on mooting from the first year itself and obtaining internships for each one of our students. We have developed a vibrant mooting culture, and each of our students has taken part in domestic and international moots. We have been able to obtain internships for almost all of our students four weeks before the start of the internship cycle.

    All in all IFIM Law College will be a student-centric law school. If they don’t grow, we don’t grow. So we will do everything in our power to ensure that our students develop into holistic, employable and socially responsible legal professionals. Being given the opportunity to setup a law school from scratch is a rare privilege in itself, but being given such a chance at the age of 29 is a rarity. I want to repay the faith the management has shown in me by making IFIM a prime destination for legal education.

     

    You have handled both litigation and teaching. Which one is more challenging and interesting?

    Litigation, in India at least, is a game of chess, with its adjournments and stalling tactics. Teaching is outcome-oriented and your performance is measured by how your students perform academically. While in litigation you are often dealing with one or two judges at the most; as a teacher you are dealing with hundreds of students, with varied backgrounds and learning needs. As a teacher, you need to satisfy a lay audience of people in their teens to their early twenties, each with their own idiosyncrasies and moods. Throw in the thankless job of being the Principal, Dean or Director along with teaching responsibilities and litigation starts looking a little easier.

     

    What advice would you like to give to our readers?

    No advice. I would like to share my favourite quote with them: “You must go on, I can’t go on, I’ll go on.”- Samuel Beckett.

  • Mayank Aggarwal, litigation lawyer, NLSIU, Bangalore on litigation after law school

    Mayank Aggarwal, litigation lawyer, NLSIU, Bangalore on litigation after law school

    Mayank is a graduate of the ’14 batch of the NLSIU. Following his multiple achievements on and off the field, he received the Alyosha Kumar Gold medal for excellence in sports and extra-curricular activities at his convocation ceremony. He went on to work with Adv. Yudhishtir Kahol as an associate/junior advocate and subsequently with RHA Legal as an associate.

    Mayank’s interest in criminal litigation within the country, aided by his experience with pro bono work, gives him an added insight into the career path of any aspiring litigant. His multi layered exposure to evidentiary burdens, witness examinations, and all the other aspects of a complete trial from the grass root level.

    In this interview Mayank talks to us about;

    • His experience at NLSIU, both inside and outside the classroom
    • Taking up litigation right after law school
    • The importance of internships
    • Work experience at RHA Legal

     

    How would you introduce yourself to our readers? Tell us about life after NLSIU.

    I am a legal practitioner and consultant based out of Delhi, working across forums with special interest in criminal litigation, both legal and non-legal aspects of criminology and pro bono work for people who can’t afford legal representation. I graduated from National Law School of India University, Bangalore and have been litigating ever since. Presently, I am working as an associate in the Litigation & Dispute Resolution vertical of RHA Legal, an emerging law firm at Delhi.

     

    What motivated your decision to study law. Were there alternate career options you had considered?

    The decision to study law was more a result of a process of elimination than a matter of choice. After studying science for two years in 10+2, I was fairly certain that I did not want to write the IIT-JEE exam, unlike everyone else in my class at School. My father is a practicing lawyer and I had a fair idea about what a lawyer does on a day-to-day basis. Unlike a major chink of the population (fed on a copious diet of dramatic and caricaturised versions of lawyers on-screen), who have seen lawyers as those sneaky people, who, with their underhand tactics, save the guilty and should not be messed with. I was lucky to have greater perspective in this regard.  I believe, more than anything else, this privileged knowledge and insight into a lawyer’s life might be one of the key reasons behind so many second and third generation lawyers entering this amazingly empowering and engaging profession.

     

    Tell us about your time at NLSIU. Any fond memories or anecdotes you would like to share with us?

    At the risk of belabouring the obvious, I would say I had the time of my life at college. Not only because NLSIU is a very good academic institution but for the people and the work culture the place had and helped all of us imbibe. I was a very shy person before college; the place played an important role in shaping my personality, ideals, and value systems. I particularly relish the wonderful camaraderie, especially at display in hostels; all of us bound together through the chaos of project submissions and last minute exam readings, trying to beat some impossible deadlines and collaborative efforts on research projects for class.

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    While at university, you took a keen interest in sports. How did you manage to balance the academic rigours of the trimester system at NLSIU?

    (Mayank captained the university cricket team, tennis team, squash team, badminton team and helped organize “Spiritus” which is the largest law school sports fest in India)

    Due to my pre-college involvement and background in sports, my interest in organisation as well as participation in various sports came naturally. Moreover, NLS has a thriving sporting culture, and being surrounded by people who are juggling both ECAs (not limited to sports) and academics  is inspiring in itself. Further, the insane effort put in all around the year by the Sports Committee, including the painstaking process of scheduling events around academic commitments of multiple batches, is no simple feat and actually helps ensure enthusiastic participation all year around without really jeopardising academics. I believe they are doing an incredible job in keeping the sporting tradition at NLSIU alive and I feel proud to have been part of it during my brief stay.

     

    What would you advise a student who wishes to excel at sports too in law school, considering time management or risk of injuries are valid issues most students face at law school?

    I believe that playing any kind of sport helps in acquiring the mental toughness to deal with the unpleasant situations you often face in your professional life, apart from keeping you physically fit, which I would say is critical especially in such a sedentary profession. More than anything else, I think sports reveal character and that’s why some friendships forged on the field during those crunch situations and the respect earned on the ground stay with you for times to come.  As regards the second part, injuries are part of any sportsman’s life and with a variety of sports to choose from, an individual may choose the ones s/he feels comfortable to engage in.

    Tell us about the internships you pursued while at university. How did you choose where to intern? What led you to start practising soon after graduation, considering a lot of your peers would have joined firms?

    I was quite clear from the beginning that I was going to pursue litigation as a career. My internship choices were driven by this. I interned with various lawyers across courts and forums, including a lot of trial court experience. I tried to keep a wide base in the beginning which I later narrowed down to fields of specialisation. I just prefer litigation over corporate firm practice as I feel more comfortable in this role, which might be due to the different skill sets involved in the two.

     

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    How does one decide which Court to start practising in after graduating if one wishes to litigate. How necessary is it to have a mentor/guide at the start of your practise?

    Frankly, I don’t think there is any right way of going about it. From the interaction I have had with my peers and seniors and my personal experience, I think a lawyer should just make the most of whatever he has to work with. I personally chose to start practising from the district courts right after graduation, which I continue to do till date, as I wanted to develop an understanding of legal procedures from the ground up. Moreover, given that I wanted to specialise in criminal law I didn’t really have a choice as the exposure to evidence and the various stages and facets of criminal trial can’t be obtained at appellate stage directly. I don’t know how important a mentor is but having someone who believes in you can be very helpful, especially when you come straight out of college. This assumes greater importance in a country like ours where practice and procedure can sometimes be so diverse that you tend to question if you were studying the right courses. I think feeling inadequate and lost in the initial phase is a very common phenomenon, so either find someone who helps you go through it or grow thicker skin!

     

    You have worked extensively on criminal matters while interning and after graduation. What are the various opportunities here and what made you gravitate towards criminal practise?

    After working on a variety of matters during my internships I personally found myself more inclined to work on criminal matters due to some personality traits, including, possibly, a flexible moral fibre. Other contributing factors in this decision were the enabling power of a criminal lawyer, the gravitas and immediate impact a good criminal lawyer has on lives. The cases you deal with are sometimes actually a matter of life and death- how many professions can you say that about?  I also think my internships with Mr. Vikas Pahwa, Sr. Advocate and watching him in action in court had a lasting impact. Furthermore, my work at the chamber of Adv. Yudhishtar Kahol was particularly enriching and fulfilling; observing Kahol sir cross-examine witnesses and interpret evidence was a sublime experience and  cemented my love for criminal litigation. The fact that both these counsels had dealt primarily anti-corruption matters, which generally involve generous volume of paperwork and an equally large number of witnesses to be examined, gave me amazing exposure to the evidentiary aspect of trial in a very short time for which I am indebted to both these offices.

     

    Soon after graduating, you worked as a junior advocate for a year and then decided to join RHA Legal, who are relatively new. Tell us about RHA Legal, the kind of work they generally deal with and what made you join them.

    RHA Legal is a start-up law firm which focusses on Intellectual Property Rights, Corporate advisory, and Litigation & Dispute Resolution practice. I am primarily attached to the Dispute Resolution vertical branch of the firm headed by partner Ajit Sharma, who does a lot of criminal litigation including white collar crimes apart from a diverse civil practice across various forums viz. Supreme Court, High Courts, NGT and Central Administrative Tribunal.  Rajiv Kr. Choudhry heads the IPR team, which inter alai does some highly technical advisory work on patent law and copyright.

    RHA Legal being a small firm, I have had the opportunity to work with both these teams and my experience here has been extremely fulfilling and enriching. The focus is on the creation of an extremely supportive and enabling work culture that has been built by the partners for everyone who works with them including the associates and the interns.  As compared to a larger setup, I believe a smaller firm gives you ample opportunity to be involved in the problem solving process from the very beginning, and that too at multiple levels including client handling, issue spotting and strategizing. Thus, giving you better perspective, far greater responsibilities and a more hands-on experience, which can prove to be vital for any litigating lawyer.

     

    What have you been tasked with in your tenure here? What is an average work day like in your life?

    From the very first day of my joining the Firm, I have enjoyed a very broad base role which included sitting through client meetings, researching on legal issues, flagging legal propositions in the case at hand, lot of drafting opportunities and some face time in the Court as well. The level of faith reposed in me, especially with regard to quality of work entrusted to me, is tremendous and I consider myself fortunate to work in such an enabling setting with some very talented and supportive seniors and colleagues. The work hours are manageable and vary according to the volume of work.

     

    Tell us about the Trial Courts at Delhi and your experience in working there. Why do you think it is an interesting avenue for graduates to pursue? Tell us about your experience with pro bono work.

    Although Trial Court work is very exciting and in fact crucial for a criminal litigator, the biggest obstacle I faced is the massive chasm between the practice and what is taught at Law School.  The one unique opportunity which a litigating lawyer has over all others, is the ability to make a difference at a very early stage. I have had the good fortune of working on some pro bono cases with Vertical Legal, a dispute resolution firm working out of Delhi. The firm has a steady real estate advisory practice, but has a dedicated team taking up pro-bono matters including a Sunday-only Legal Clinic imparting free of cost legal advice to all and sundry. I trust that apart from being a learning opportunity, it is a humbling and a supremely fulfilling experience. I have been involved in this work since my fourth year of law school and I must say I am very proud of what we have been able to accomplish since then. Some of the work we did was also reported recently in the media, including a piece in the reputed Caravan Magazine on a case relating to ill-treatment of migrant labourers in Punjab. This case also made me realise the extremely effective role that the media, and good journalism in general, can play by taking up socially relevant stories and contributing to the solution, which does not always lie in the legal sphere.

     

    What are your goals for the immediate future?

    I don’t have any elaborate goals for the near future. I would love to continue in my current setup and learn as much as I can in the process. Litigation, they say, requires patience and perseverance; I currently feel that I am stocking up on both.

     

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    What would be your parting message to our readers, especially those who wish to litigate?

    They say, “Litigation is not a profession, it is a way of life” and with each passing day I am appreciating the aptness of this statement. Although I feel I am not old or wise enough to give advice, I will pass on something which a very wise man once told me- “Litigation involves industry, and lots of it. Don’t do it for the money, there are exponentially easier ways of making money 🙂”.

  • Manisha Chaudhary, Managing Partner, UKCA & Partners, on leading a law firm and Masters from Cornell

    Manisha Chaudhary, Managing Partner, UKCA & Partners, on leading a law firm and Masters from Cornell

    Manisha Chaudhary graduated in law from Amity Law School, Noida. She went on to pursue her LL.M. from Cornell Law School, focusing on corporate laws. She is now the Managing Partner at UKCA and Partners (formerly UKCA Law Chambers).

    In this interview, Manisha discusses:

    • Her childhood experiences that pushed her towards choosing law as a career.
    • Her considerations while choosing the best university to do an LL.M.
    • The methodology she uses to research and write articles
    • Her views on the legal education system in India

     

    How would you like to introduce yourself to our readers?

    I am presently the Managing Partner at UKCA and Partners (formerly UKCA Law Chambers), a law firm founded in the year 1986 by my father, Mr. U. K. Chaudhary, an eminent Senior Advocate. He had to disassociate from the firm when he was designated as a senior and the firm passed on to his juniors.

     

    Tell us about your childhood and pre-college life. Was it always your dream to be in legal profession?

    The first question I usually get asked when I meet someone is “So, when did you decide to be a lawyer?” And honestly, my answer usually is “Ummm, I was born to be one!”

    My parents had always encouraged my brother and I to follow our dreams (even if we fell flat on our faces, they were always there to support us). My parents thought that I would take up medicine as a profession, and as a matter of chance I was great at all the science subjects. However, during school, I took keen interest in debating, dramatics, creative writing, the book club, and such related co-curricular activities, which I assumed would help me expand my intellectual abilities. I am sure if Philosophy was a subject in high school, I would have been the first to enrol.  For me, it has always been about gathering information and being fully informed on various subjects, even if it may be of no concern in my life or to me. My closest friends call me Ms. FYI – For your Information! As a child, I would have my parents sign illegible handwritten contracts to make sure I get paid in cash or kind for the chores I had done (which were often repudiated by my mother!). I would sit in my father’s office for hours reading law books at random, which at the time made no coherent sense to me; sibling disputes were handled in the High Court of Mother and I would put across detailed arguments on how I had been wronged and have my brother pay compensation. So far as I remember, I would bolt to our front gate to get the High Court ‘Cause List’ to find my father’s name, read his files and point out the grammatical mistakes (concepts of legal English were lost on me) and organise the office files and Bare Acts. I would strut into his office and take dictation from his juniors and then type it out for them, which they sportingly let me do.

    I truly believe that the inclinations towards the right subjects, an inquisitive attitude towards life, and the constant need to learn and try new things, are inherent qualities of every lawyer and the very fact that I declared myself to be a future ‘financial’ lawyer to all my near and dear ones in the 8th grade did it in for me.

     

    What led you to choose legal profession?

    Whenever someone sought advice from my parents whether one should pursue a career in law, they would categorically say the following:

    1. The profession requires hard work, dedication and perseverance.
    2. You will have to constantly read, study, and keep yourself up-to-date for the rest of your life.
    3. You may have to give work priority over family and friends, and finding a balance will be a challenge every day.
    4. You will always be busy and rushing everywhere.
    5. There is no retirement.

    After hearing this, I was instantly hooked.

     

    Tell us about your experience in Amity law School. What all curricular and extra-curricular activities did you participate in?

    Amity Law School, Noida was in its infancy when I joined. There were not many rules and regulations which barred us from enjoying the ‘Delhi University’ style college life. However, within a year or so, everything settled down and Amity became like any other law school, with the added advantage of foreign educated faculty and international level infrastructure. Amity was and is notorious for being elitist and grandiose but lacking in terms of quality education. However, I beg to differ. Amity is much more than scoring marks, preparing for moots and planning to be an associate in a big law firm. It is a wholesome college experience. Since it is one huge campus for all departments, there are many inter-departmental competitions, festivals, sports meets etc. that gives a young student the opportunity to not only learn their subjects but also learn from other streams. While at Amity, I actively participated in intra-class debates, inter-college competitions, essay competitions, a few national level moots, went on court visits, helped organise events etc. I even participated in cricket and volleyball matches! Since every class at Amity was more or less a group discussion, staying on top of the subject was important. Amity truly teaches you how to survive in a cutthroat world and to bring your ‘A game’ at all times.

     

    You hold a masters degree in law from the prestigious Ivy League school Cornell University. How well did your experiences there prepare you for your current responsibilities?

    I aspired to apply only to Ivy League institutions and hence all my efforts in law school and at work were to make sure to have the minimum requirements of marks, moot competitions, publications, work experience, court appearances and professional growth. I worked fulltime for two years because I wanted to have at least a basic knowledge of corporate laws before specialising in the subjects that I accordingly elected. I know that many people prefer to apply for their masters right out of law school, and do exceedingly well. However, I differ on this approach. I believe it is important to gain some work experience prior to applying as it helps you determine what field of law you would like to specialise in. Most of my classmates had previously worked as lawyers or paralegals and it gave me the opportunity to learn from them.

    Cornell is known to be a relatively easy Ivy to get admission into but the most difficult to graduate from. The courses are multi-dimensional and challenging. All the subjects I pursed at Cornell were specialised topics, and were taught by professionals from New York City and seasoned professors. To truly learn, it is important to not just sit in class and take notes, but to actively engage with the professors and lecturers and to pick their brains.  I sincerely think that I would not have been able to truly extract the essence of the courses, if I had no previous work experience in the same field.

    Having experience gave me the ability to compare what I know to what I was learning and hence I could discuss with other students and professors how to grow professionally and overcome the challenges faced at work. The exchange was mutual ofcourse, because I was able to help my classmates understand the Indian legal system and clarify many of their doubts as well. While at Cornell, I gave a lecture on the Indian Constitution and had students and professors attend the same. It was a feeling of humble pride and an ecstatic high. Cornell does not grade its LL.M. students but rather offers “comments” such as Unsatisfactory (meaning that you have to take the course again), Satisfactory, Honours and High Honours. They believe that since master’s students are scholars they cannot be judged, as there is no “right” or “wrong” interpretation of law. This experience of formulating an opinion on a subject of law and having the same appreciated, even if no one agrees with it, genuinely gives one a tremendous sense of achievement.

     

    How should one assess their LL.M. program? What are the key factors to be kept in mind while applying for LL.M. in different universities?

    First, an LL.M. program or college should not be solely evaluated on the rankings given by various news agencies. The statistics are based on a variety of factors, which can be highly manipulated and hence are not the best tool for assessment. Second, it is important to speak to Alumni, who can guide you and offer you the best advice regarding the school and the course. Third, do a comparison of colleges on factors which are important to you. For example, Yale is an excellent law school but I did not think it was a good fit for me because it is more academically inclined and I wished for a college which is more inclined towards the industry. Fourth, consider your long-term goals. Before choosing your college of choice, you need to establish the reasons why you wish to pursue an LL.M., how it will help you achieve your career goals, what are its post qualification prospects, etc. Fifth, thoroughly research the faculty, the class size, internal policies regarding LL.M. students, how courses are allotted etc. Cornell and Yale have an average of 80 persons per LL.M. batch whereas NYU has an average of 400, hence the classes you wish to take may not be available to you. You can best assess an LL.M. course by reading up on it and speaking to the Alumni, who are more than willing to help. Do not be afraid to ask questions, even if they seem condescending, after all, you are spending a huge amount of resources on an LL.M. degree. To apply for an LL.M. course keep the following “Cs” in mind:

    1. Cost– it is very important because an LL.M. does not guarantee you a dream job, and hence it is important to have your funding in place. In case you plan to take loans, then a plan to clear your debts is important.
    2. Course– do a thorough analysis of the subjects offered and whether they are in sync with what you would want to specialise in and the future prospects of the same.
    3. Country– United States of America and the United Kingdom are not the only two countries, which are popular for LL.M. courses. Many students choose to go to Continental Europe or the Middle East to truly expand their horizons in their chosen field of law.

    Once you have these three figured out, the rest is easy. It will all fall in place once you get there and you will make lifelong memories.

     

    Presently you are Managing Partner at UKCA. What falls within the scope of your responsibility?

    Being a Managing Partner of a firm that is constantly growing is full of challenges. We have a very simple internal structure and I am thankful to each of my employees, associates, and partners for helping me execute my vision for the firm. My foremost responsibility is to consolidate the interests of everyone in the firm and make a comprehensive plan for implementation. Being a Managing Partner also puts me in the shoes of a business owner and hence I make monthly goals for my formidable team to work on. Meeting new clients and promoting the firm is my second responsibility and one that I am constantly learning and improving on. My third responsibility is to oversee finances, appraisals and compliances of the firm. I am also involved in administrative aspects of the firm and look into procurements, subscriptions, memberships, disputes etc. However, my most vital responsibility is to each of my clients and hence every document which goes out of my firm is vetted and finalised by me. Though I can blindly trust my principal associates and partners to settle every document, I believe it also my duty to be personally involved in every matter and be available to clients with full attention to details of their transactions and litigations. I attend most court hearings and am always present on deal closings to assist my clients and my associates and partners.

     

    While hiring new lawyers what kind of skills you look for in their CV.

    The portion of any CV that I disregard is what law school the student is from. It is in my experience the worst measure of how good a lawyer is. The skills I am most interested in are work experience and drafting-research. No law firm is looking to hire first year associates for arguments in courts or lead negotiations and close deals. When hiring fresh law graduates, I want to see their results in moot court competition, creative writing skills and their personalities, whether they will be good fit for the firm and whether they have what it takes to survive long hours and hard work. The next portion to get my attention is usually grades as that can be a decent marker of your basic knowledge and learning skills. I then focus on languages and diversity the person may bring to the firm. If you pass these three criteria, you will be invited for an interview. A job at my law firm depends on the interview with the partners and other assignments which we will ask you to undertake.

     

    You hold certificate in Corporate Law and Governance from the renowned London School of Economics and Political Science, United Kingdom. How far are these certificate courses helpful? Tell us about the experience.

    Certificate courses, if used as a tool for continuing education, can be of great significance in the field of law one specialises in. Certified courses abroad can be in the form of summer school or standalone courses depending on what time of the year you apply. It is a great learning experience apart from being a mini vacation where you make new friends from various countries and different walks of life. In my LSE class, we had finance graduates, lawyers, CEOs, directors of companies, accountants, economists etc. The class was engaging and helped us get a sneak peak of problems faced by professionals in many countries and how we could learn from each other’s experiences. Certificate courses as a supplement to further your knowledge are a great tool and I would suggest a refresher ever so often, whether in India or abroad.

     

    You are an avid writer and have published various articles. How would you advise students to go about their careers with respect to research and writing, publishing grade academic papers?

    I consider publications to be an integral part of a student’s education and a lawyer’s career. Be it writing books, articles, presentations, or even comments on various blogs; it helps hone their research and writing skills. Every student or young lawyer should follow a systematic approach in their own way to writing articles, which will help to get the articles published. Also try to collaborate with seniors or other co-authors to write books, columns, blogs etc. The more publications you have, the greater the impression that you have what it takes to be a scholar or an expert. All colleges prefer students who have published work as it helps them gauge a person’s intellect to a certain level.

    I have written many articles (published and otherwise), prepared presentations for clients, prepared lectures to deliver at seminars for both myself and my father, and I have a very specific, stepwise approach to them all. I have to confess that I am truly a Google junkie. My first step is to ‘Google’ all the information on a subject and read as much as I can, both positive and negative comments, articles etc. to thoroughly understand a topic. The next step in my research is usually news articles available on the internet, and then I move on to articles and presentations by other professionals. All this helps me in getting a general idea of the topic. From here starts the actual process of research. I then peruse the Bare Acts on the subject to interpret the legislative intent and form my own views and opinion on the sections. Next I read the amendments, rules, circulars, and notifications etc. to make sure that nothing important has been overlooked. I also look up any proposed amendments, which may further help me understand the true intent of the law. I then go on to debate every point with my father. I am lucky to have an expert on corporate laws right at home and since it’s my chosen field of practice, I fully exploit every opportunity, though sometimes I am shown the door! Once I have decided on what my hypothesis on a certain subject is, I go on to read scholarly articles, both Indian and international, to understand how I may or may not differ from others. I also research case laws, which may be applicable or made applicable on my hypothesis of a certain subject. My research is usually complete at this stage and now begins the difficult part to put together all the research into a written form. Once I have written an article, I go through it repeatedly to make sure that there is a gradual flow of information and that is no diversion from the main issue at hand. Before submission, I do a plagiarism check, which points out any flaws my article may have. A few points to be kept it mind before submission are– always source you articles, try to be as original as possible, use precedents and do a proper edit for spellings and grammar.

     

    You have been regular guest lecturer at various law schools. How is the curriculum of a foreign law school different from an Indian one? What changes, if any, would you like to see in Indian legal curriculum?

    It saddens me to say that the Indian curriculum for law schools is very dated and impractical for today’s legal profession. The curriculum has been the same for the last few decades with minor changes and focuses mostly on the theoretical aspects of law, majority of which is not relevant for practice. Though some changes have been introduced such as moot courts, projects, and internships, there is still a vast scope for improvement. The quality of the profession is greatly affected due to lack of quality education. I believe we need a complete overhaul of the subjects being taught at law schools. I also believe that teachers, lecturers and professors have to conduct more clinics to teach students the art of presenting arguments, negotiations, trial advocacy, deal closing, preparing transactional documents etc. This will prepare the students for the profession and greatly improve the quality of lawyers.

    The curriculum at foreign law schools is also theoretical but is limited to only a few subjects. What I admire most about foreign law schools is the focus they have on how to make a student an asset for the profession. They make sure that a student who has graduated knows the profession and only has to start polishing themselves to become an expert. In India the approach is to push you into the profession and have you learn on the job, which is not beneficial for every student. I know so many young lawyers who give up litigation or transactional practice because they cannot deliver the quality of work their seniors expect of them. There is tremendous scope for students to elect subjects, which specialise in a certain area of law, such as laws for technology start-ups, laws for ethical hacking, laws for crowd funding, documentation for leveraged buyouts, preparing IPO documentation, investment banking etc. Such subjects need to be taught to give Indian students a level playing field with their counterparts abroad. We should also encourage inter-disciplinary courses where law students along with management students, bankers, engineering students or business students come together to solve complex transactional issues and learn to work on deals which will require understanding and cooperation between different professions. The Indian legal education system needs a more robust, dynamic and diverse curriculum to be of any use to new age lawyers or else we will be left far behind our global counterparts.

     

    You have also been providing pro bono services to social enterprises and start-ups. What is the source of motivation?

    I have been inclined to work towards certain causes relating to the environment, women and children, which have been close to my heart since high school. I provide free legal aid to social enterprises and start-ups that are working in the same field. If I am not able to help, I connect them with my friends who may be able to do so. I sincerely believe that our country has every resource to become a great nation. However, we lack the collective will to do anything about it. The motivation is to make a difference to the society in order to make it better for us all. Social enterprises and many start-ups, including NGOs are working day in and day out to help those who are less fortunate and I wish to be of some help, to the best of my abilities, in their struggle. If I can help them save legal costs, which could sponsor another tube well, or educate a young child, then why not!

     

    What would be your advice to our budding lawyers?

    I have some very simple advice:

    1. Research like your life depends on it. Do not open your mouth unless you have research to back up you arguments or legal opinion. Try to be informed and updated on a daily basis.
    2. Draft, re-draft and then re-draft again, thinking about each possible consequence of every sentence that you have written. Think not only from your client’s perspective but also from that of the opposition. Be honest and fair to the courts. Do not suppress any document or information.
    3. Be organised at all times. Deadlines have been given for a reason and priorities have to be set.
    4. Do not be disrespectful to juniors, seniors, judges, staff, etc. Maintain decorum in court and in office. Do not get personal, and lay yourself open to perennial criticism.
    5. Be ethical. No client or their money, position, or fame is more important than your allegiance to the profession.
    6. Be loyal to your employer and your clients who took a risk with you and give them your best at all times. However, you deserve to be treated with respect and do not let anyone make you believe otherwise.
    7. Try to learn from your seniors without disturbing them. Keep your ears and eyes open and you will pick up on many tricks of the trade.
    8. Do not try to be Ms. or Mr. Know-It-All. Even seniors with 40 years of experience do not know it all! Do what you are good at and strive to be better with each day.
    9. Bunker down, and do not be afraid to work late nights and long hours. You will reap benefits of your hard work.
    10. Enjoy being a lawyer, and take it as your life’s passion not as a bread earner, It is an admired profession but if you do not love it, leave now else you will always be miserable.
  • Jyoti Singh, Partner, Phoenix Legal, on experience in Banking and Finance Law

    Jyoti Singh, Partner, Phoenix Legal, on experience in Banking and Finance Law

    Jyoti Singh studied law at Maharshi Dayanand University and graduated in 2000. She worked for a while at Dhir & Dhir Associates as a Principal Associate and is now a Partner at Phoenix Legal.

    In this interview Jyoti talks to us about:

    • The reasons behind her career choices
    • Her experiences and learning curve while working with Mr. Jugal Wadhwa and Dhir & Dhir Associates.
    • Her views on the current legal education system

     

    How would you introduce yourself, given that most of our readers are law aspirants, lawyers-in-the-making & young lawyers?

    I am a lawyer who hails from Sonipat, a small city in Haryana, and currently a partner at a well-reputed firm thanks to my self-confidence, hard work, sincerity, and dedication.

     

    Which incidents, influences or interests prompted you to think of law as a career? If not law, what other options would you have considered for a career?

    My father currently practices in Sonipat and I have always seen him working very hard. He still wakes up at 4:00 a.m. and reads his briefs. His lifestyle used to fascinate me. But frankly, I had science as my subject in my 12th Standard. While I was taking up exams for pursuing a career in medicine, but after a detailed discussion with him about my future plans and career choices he ended by telling me that, “You argue so much, I feel you will make a good lawyer”. I laughed it off. But today I surely am a lawyer, though still trying to be a “good one”.

     

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    How would you describe your academic career while at M.D.U, Rohtak? What made you want to pursue an LL.M after your graduation from the same?

    I was one of those students in M.D.U., who probably never bunked a class but still had my own share of fun at hostel. I used to take part in debates and essay writings etc. I pursued a LL.M because I like studying, and frankly while choosing “Winding up by Courts” as a topic of my dissertation I never imagined that one day I would be ranked as a leading lawyer in Dispute Resolution and Insolvency (Ranked by Chambers and Partners 2015 and 2016).

     

    Did you indulge in any co-curricular activities such as debating or mooting while there?

    I participated in debates and moot parliament etc.

     

    What made you target a litigant’s practice straight out of law school?

    My father was and is my inspiration, he is a litigator so it came to me naturally.

     

    What would you say are the greatest learnings from your time spent with Mr. Jugal Wadhwa?

    In terms of law and procedure, it was an enriched legal experience where his knowledge of the same helped systematically build my foundations of law. While practising in the district courts and the High Court of Delhi, it exposed me to both the procedure and the original side of litigation itself.

     

    How did first-hand exposure to the legal system in all its glory affect or influence you?

    The deeper I went into the profession, the more I was convinced that this is what I want to do all my life.

     

    What prompted the shift to Dhir & Dhir Associates? How did your experience there differ from your earlier experiences?

    With Mr. Jugal Wadhwa, I gained a lot of experience in civil and criminal litigation after which I wanted to shift to a law firm. At Dhir & Dhir, I worked with a team specialising in proceedings at AAIFR and High Courts, and slowly started looking after work at various High Courts. The travel intensive nature of my work there increased my exposure to the same.

     

    Why the special interest in Banking and Finance Litigation with a special focus on proceedings under SICA and Insolvency proceedings?

    Dhir and Dhir has been a leading Firm in that area of law, hence it was only natural to have focused on SICA and insolvency proceedings.

     

    Again, when and why did you decide to join Phoenix Legal in 2010?

    Phoenix started in 2008 with a set of very dynamic professionals. I wanted to join a firm where I could grow with the Firm. I joined Phoenix, Mumbai office, in October 2010 as a Counsel and was made partner in April 2011.

     

    How did your previous experiences help you or influence you through the same?

    It helped be set up and grow through a litigation practice.

     

    Your current profile seems fairly commercial and finance-centric under a larger purview of corporate law, how did you come to chose the same as your area of interest?

    I would say that I started as a general litigator and I still do a fair bit of civil, contractual pre-litigation strategy and litigation/ arbitration. But, corporate, banking, and finance have been my core strength due to my extensive experience in these fields (be it advisory or disputes/ recovery).

     

    What has your experience in dealing with foreign companies been like? How do they differ, if at all, from local clients?

    Foreign companies are more professional in their approach but now the local companies are also reaching there.

     

    What would you describe the work atmosphere as? How does the same play out in terms of work load and cooperation among those working with you?

    Work atmosphere plays a very important role because you spend a majority of your time at the workplace. If your colleagues are helpful and seniors are motivating, then it surely acts as a catalyst in facilitating the growth of any individual and the organisation as well, because I believe that “Happy and successful Employees make a Happy and successful Organisation”.

     

    How taxing would you describe your work as, does it afford time for a life outside the office?

    I love what I do and I can’t see myself doing anything else. I am passionate about my work and hence it’s not taxing at all. I am an early riser, so I get my share of “me” time and remain much contended with that.

     

    Looking back, how different would your experience have been if you were at a national law university?

    Education systems makes a lot of difference. Surely there would have been a lot of value added.

     

    What is your opinion of the current legal education system for law students given the internship and material intensive five or three year programmes? How does the same affect your hiring policy?

    I really like the current education system. I see interns at my firm. Some of them “are very good lawyers in making”. We, in fact, sometimes absorbs interns as associates because we have first hand experience of their ability and attitude. I personally, in my team, have a few such examples of individuals who had interned with me and are/were working as associate.

     

    If you were a law student today, would you do anything differently? If so, what would it be and why?

    Yes, certainly. I would have done internships during my law course because getting exposed to practical side of law while gaining knowledge of the theory acts as a stimulant in becoming a good lawyer.

     

    What would your parting advice be to our readers?

    Work hard! Read Hard! Make books your best friend!

  • Ketan Mukhija, Senior VP at SREI, on role and skill sets required to work in an in-house position

    Ketan Mukhija, Senior VP at SREI, on role and skill sets required to work in an in-house position

    Ketan Mukhija graduated from NALSAR, Hyderabad in the year 2007. He has worked in foreign law firms like Jones Day and Herbert Smith. Thereafter, he returned to India and worked with two Indian law firms at responsible positions. At present, he works as the Senior Vice President (Legal) of SREI Infrastructure Finance Limited, one of the largest infrastructure financing firms in India.

    In this interview Ketan talks about:

    • His career trajectory from working in US & UK and then to India
    • Working in an in-house position as a career option for young lawyers
    • Structure of an in-house legal team in a large company
    • Role of an in-house counsel
    • Skillsets required to work in an in-house position

    Click here to read our earlier interview with Ketan.

    Please share with us your journey so far.

    It is has been a fascinating journey so far.

    After graduating from NALSAR, I started working in the western hemisphere and slowly and gradually, moved towards the eastern. I commenced my career with a firm called Jones Day which is an International Law Firm (ILF) based out of the United States, and has multiple offices across the world. I was working as part of the Merger & Acquisitions and Strategic Alliances team there. Thereafter I moved to Herbert Smith Freehills (HSF) in London. I got a dual qualification to practice as a solicitor in England & Wales within the United Kingdom.

    At HSF, I was working with Equity Capital Market Division, and got an excellent opportunity to work on big transactions. I was involved in the acquisition deal of Land Rover and Jaguar by Tata, which was a tremendous experience. While working for HSF, I had also advised Bradford and Bingley, which is UK’s biggest buy-to-let lender. The recession had just set in, so we represented and advised Bradford and Bingley on tracing of capital, drafting of prospectuses and related documentation.

    Thereafter, owing to personal reasons, I had to shift to New Delhi where I worked for a relatively short stint with two firms, Vaish Associates and Luthra & Luthra Law Offices in senior positions. It was a good experience because working for Indian clients was different where the work areas are generaI as far as the corporate area is concerned. In US and UK, we have very focused and super-specialized areas. In Indian firms, you pretty much pick up a generalist experience and set of transactions. Accordingly, the major areas that I worked on included corporate restructuring, PIPE transactions, private equity, banking finance and energy infrastructure. Overall, I got a good all-round experience at both firms following which I got the opportunity to work with SREI Infrastructure Finance Limited as the Sr. Vice President (Legal, Corporate Strategy and Planning).

    SREI Group is one of the largest infrastructure financing conglomerates in India, having assets worth USD3 billion approx under its management and with almost over hundred entities as sister concerns. It is a huge group which is being held and managed under the auspices of the Kanoria Foundation.

    Many young lawyers want to become in-house counsels and are opting to work as in-house counsels directly after law school. How do you see this as a career path?

    There are a few things which we have to bear in mind. There is some form of uniformity and inconsistency in terms of working in law firms. On the other hand, an in-house counsel has to be flexible according to the organization he/she wants to work with. In the M&A division or capital markets division of any other big firm, the type of work is somewhat on similar lines, depending on the transaction at hand. However, each company has a different structure. The philosophy of a company, organization, structural configuration and the hierarchy will be very different from that of a law firm. Before I shed some light on the content side or the method side, a word of advice for people who aspire to be an in-house counsel, they should do some background research on the type of company they want to work for. In the past, companies used to look for a person who had 15-25 years of experience in the same industry. However, that is changing. Young lawyers are being recruited by companies who are creating immense value and changing the traditional setup.

    It is important to note that, as an in-house counsel, you must know that your role will be more than just a legal adviser; you will be given a much-diversified responsibility which may not be strictly legal in nature. Here, the client is your financial team, commercial team and you are not catering to the entire world but ensuring that there is organic or inorganic growth within the organization, and you undertake the roles of a dispute preventor, cost controller and the right business partner in the literal sense. So, you should keep all the aforementioned points in mind before joining a company as an in-house counsel.

    If you want to generalize the structure of an in-house legal team in a  large company, how will you do that?

    With the caveat, that no two organisations have the same structure. I would like to give an example from the structure in the SREI Group. Under SREI Group, for every legal entity, there is a corporate legal and corporate compliance at each level because the regulator mandates these. A listed company needs to comply with several regulations by different regulators. There is constant interaction with Security Exchange Board of India (SEBI), which supervises all major activities of a company. If there is an acquisition or a potential change in the management of a listed company, everything has to be regularly and periodically intimated to SEBI and the stock exchange where the company is listed. Therefore, the compliance divisions ensure the conformity with the regulators and the RBI. The SREI Group is regulated by the RBI as an infrastructure finance company (IFC). So, we have a lot of interaction with the RBI on fairly regular basis. It is crucial to have a compliance division to ensure that we comply with the existing legal and regulatory framework.

    Almost all companies have a risk management team. The risk management team usually takes the form of an internal audit or a legal audit division. As a company with multiple associate/subsidiary entities, it has to ensure that the internal contractual arrangements and shareholding is managed properly, and there exists a system of checks and balances between the various entities at all levels to ensure that you are minimizing risks at every stage. So, the risk management division assumes a lot of importance.

    There is also a corporate legal at each entity level. On a daily basis, in an operative contract division, there are employment contracts, non-disclosure agreements, term sheets, securities documentation, memorandum of understanding and collaboration agreements which the corporate team needs to look at and thoroughly negotiate with the counterparties.

    A financial institution has many recovery matters, possession matters, civil matters, DRT matters, risk management, compliance, internal audit, etc, so it is important to have a robust litigation division.

    Moreover, at the group level, you have a strategy and planning team that drives and co-ordinates with all the aforementioned divisions.  It is the strategy team which drives the processes substantively across these 4-5 teams. The set up is mature in our organization but it varies with every organization, but this is typically what I have seen in Indian multinational corporations.

    What is the role of an in-house counsel in an organisation? How is it different from working in a law firm?

    The role of a general counsel is in the nature of a true business partner who works as a i) preemptive risk mitigator, ii) cost controller for legal expenses and iii) remedy agent in case there is a legal issue. A General Counsel has a role which is similar to a general physician, who would identify the issues in hand and should be able to guide the business functions in a right direction in case of any legal issues, rather than implementing every function himself/ herself.

    It is important to understand what the scope, ambit and role of an in-house counsel look like. There can be various divisions and verticals in the legal department. You have to involve yourself in the strategic decision-making process of the organization and for that, you need to know the legal risks and help streamline the processes within the organization to ensure that the key issues and the legal matters are being monitored and scrutinized. Then you have to take the strategic decisions keeping in mind the philosophy and the interests of the organization. So one of the key things is actual to be in coordination with the management of the company or the business heads of the company to ensure that all the decisions are taken by keeping in mind the legal risk that can potentially arise. You have to work on commercial transactions with external counsels and law firms to help us on an ad-hoc or retainer basis. If you have a defined skill set, you have to wear the business hat and think like a business head and try to create value at each step. It is important that as an in-house counsel, you should have the ability or skillsets required to set up the right structures to achieve a high level of operational efficiency and continuous improvement of organization and business, the methods ensuring incorporation of the best practices, creating awareness, development of functional centres of excellence and the ability to work under pressure. As an in-house counsel, you should be in a position to handle critical issues which are sensistive or confidential in nature. You have to be fully equipped, informed and in a position to handle that. So the idea is to integrate the legal advice with the business requirement and create value for the organisation. A person has to be a generalist, must have good grasping power, has to be flexible because litigation can change colors tomorrow. Working in an in-house role can be very different from working in a law firm. In a law firm, you might work on one area of law throughout your life, but the variety of work in an in-house function is extremely wide. You have to be very flexible and good to learn and grasp so that you can learn about the collaboration between the corporation office and various group companies optimizing the value of the corporate entity.

     

    What are the skills sets required to become an In-House Counsel?

    The skill sets have to be both technical and soft skills. You must have the judicious amalgam of the soft skills as well which is very much required because you will be dealing with very stringent timelines and some unexpected kind of pushbacks. When you are dealing with non-lawyers and people from other departments, you will have to be slightly more versatile and more efficiency oriented to ensure that they understand the tone of your language. It is important that you understand both their business requirement and you convey your legal provisions. This is one of the key skillsets that one must possess if they want to work in an in-house role.

    The organization will go on forever, and no person is indispensable in an organization. So it is important to standardize the procedure and processes in line with the business requirements to ensure efficiency and seamless delivery of advisory legal opinion. It is important to have standard points, or starting points or denominators or basis, wherein the position or philosophy of the company is clearly laid down. Those philosophies guide the operations and decision making over the years. So standardization and uniformization are very important.

    It is also crucial to have the ability to drive the processes, because deriving economic value and savings for the organization by bringing in the subject matter expertise and skill sets can only make meaning when you have a high level of operational efficiency.

    For example, if a company wants to embark on an M&A transaction, the law firms will be doing a set of documentation, the technical team and other teams will be doing their own due diligence and submit their report. Everybody has his or her compartmentalized job of work customized to the transaction. However, as a sole point of contact with all stakeholders, you as an in-house counsel should be able to soak all the information from everyone, give it the right shape and ensure that they mold and cast well in the framework that you want.

    You need to stay updated with the latest changes in the position of law so that you can give the best perspective advice from a commercial perspective to the top management.

    What should be the role of a legal head in case of a regulatory vacuum/ grey areas in law?

    While advising the business verticals to act on areas where there are regulatory vacuum or grey areas, a general counsel has the role to pre-empt the risk in a calculated manner and put the same before the business verticals. However, in cases where the existing legal framework is inadequate or fails to meet the current market scenario, it will be important to put forward the problem with the government agencies, either through industry bodies/ associations like ASSOCHAM or individually. Whenever a new law is proposed, generally the government provides a window period of 60-90 days during which the stakeholders can voice their concerns about the new law. It is important that the problem or concerns are clearly identified and proposed solutions are put forward in such cases. These solutions can be based on industry best practices around the world or based on ground realities or the market sentiments.

    Please give your views about the trend in the Indian companies on having a large in-house legal team.

    The trend is towards having a robust in-house function as well. The mantra of any firm is to increase their revenue and decrease the cost. I think having a robust in-house team works much better for me than hiring a law firm every now and then because that is an expensive affair. If you have a good in-house team, then the cost can be curtailed quickly and to a large extent. Because, when you talk about International Law firms, for a simple agreement they will charge you huge amounts. Now, if you have equipped lawyers who have global exposure and are good negotiators, I think they can play a role both in increasing revenue as well as cost preventers to a colossal extent. It is important to have in-house experts in finance, investment, taxation laws who can form the right opinion. One can take help of external consultants, when the volume is huge or when the work needs to be done at different locations, and it is not possible for the internal team to be present at different places. The idea should be to ensure that the person understands the business because that is where it adds value. Consultants will come as an outsider, but here you know the aspirations and expectations and can lead the best optimal advice. So I think the trend is very encouraging, fruitful and also sinks with the simple market logic. It aligns the incentives and disincentives of the promoters. So it is a market-driven kind of move.

    Is there any other aspect you would like to add on to the discussion?

    The role of a General Counsel or a Senior Corporate Counsel is also that of a behavior analyst of the corporate systems. Now there are so many rules to manage the entire litigation, rules to manage the complete compliance kind of platform, rules to administer the contracts. You have to make use of the technology, behavioral skills, core competencies, evolve right system of checks and balances within the organization, and I think that’s the requisite kind of skill sets. and I can probably end by saying that today’s evolving business scenario in the changing market, the role of a corporate counsel is very meaningful in the sense that they are becoming the true partners of the business unit and the company and, to drive the strategy towards higher growth, development, higher bottom lines and top lines. The role of a General Counsel is critical because he work at every stage with CFO, CIO, CMO, and CTO and acts as the point person for the top management. It is important that he gives the right advice to the top management which would drive the strategy for the company. In today’s scenario the role of a general counsel looks very promising.