Abhishek Tripathy graduated from NUJS, Kolkata in 2011. Thereafter, he worked at AMSS, Mumbai for almost a year. Not much later, he realized that working in a corporate law firm was not merely what he wanted. Looking for a work area that allowed him to work at the intersection of law, policy and governance, Abhishek decided to sit for the famously tricky UPSC exams. Today, after a steady pace of determined preparation and hard work, he has qualified the UPSC and is all set to join the IRS.
In this interview, he tells SuperLawyer about:
His early experiences that led him to the desire of working for the people of the country
His realization that mooting and other law school activities helped even those who looked for a non-legal career
His experience at a premier law firm and then his decision to avoid the lures of this firm and prepare for the UPSC
The preparation that went into cracking the UPSC exam
His reason for choosing the IRS
How would you like to introduce yourself to our readers who are mostly law aspirants, law students and young lawyers?
I graduated from NUJS in 2011, and was working briefly at AMSS Mumbai. I decided to write the UPSC CSE in 2012, after leaving AMSS. I have secured a rank of 151 in the 2014 CSE, and will soon join the Indian Revenue Service.
How would you describe your childhood and educational background before college? Do you have lawyers or bureaucrats in your family?
I did my schooling from BJEM School and Class XII from BJB Junior College, both in Bhubaneswar. I had science in my higher secondary course. I was active in extra and co-curriculars all through. I was an avid debater and loved public speaking and elocution.
My family has a great diversity of professionals which includes lawyers and bureaucrats. There was thus never a dearth of role models while growing up. My mother is trained in Indian Classical music. She used to perform songs written by my maternal grandmother, in the All India Radio while she was in college! Music and literature therefore had a tremendous impact on me.
My father was a sports-person and a marathoner. My father and grandfather encouraged me to read the newspaper daily, without fail.
Due to my father’s frequent and long spells of postings in the Kalahandi-Bolangir-Koraput (KBK) region of Odisha, I travelled through these areas quite a bit. What I found tragic was the deprivation, but what was startlingly redeeming was the rich culture of the people. That phase had a deep impact on me. I decided to commit to the UPSC preparation due to an awareness of ground realities in such areas.
Looking back, that helped me learn many practical things.
How would you describe your experience as a student aspiring to study at an NLU? How would you describe your academic life at law school?
(Abhishek graduated from West Bengal National University of Juridical Sciences, in the year 2011)
Education at a leading NLU is as comprehensive as it gets. It exposes you to diverse life experiences. It prepares you for life. To every law school aspirant, my simple message is to just do everything in your capacity to make the cut.
To every law school student, I would simply tell you to absorb as much as your student life offers you. Your experiences will eventually define the lawyer that you will become.
I had a great learning experience in law school. A great pool of motivated and driven batchmates made the experience challenging and thoroughly enjoyable. We were lucky to be taught by some of the finest law professors, from India and abroad. Besides, it was a time when research output was beginning to be focussed on substantially in NUJS, under Prof. MP Singh’s visionary leadership.
Did you like the combination of law and humanities right from the beginning, or was it an afterthought when you realized that you had to prepare for the UPSC exams?
I really liked the humanities subjects, especially Sociology and Political Science. Economics taught at law school helped me a lot during my UPSC preparation, as there is a clear focus on Macro-Eco. Sociology helped me build bridges and link topics. Most importantly, it taught me the art of questioning seemingly mundane aspects of life, which we take for granted.
For example, during one of my internships I was working on sanitation and public health, and in another I was working on disaster mitigation and management and had the opportunity to interact with women’s Self Help Groups (SHGs). This confluence of law, finance, policy and grassroots issues helped me a lot while in law school and as a lawyer. It helped me even more while preparing for the UPSC. I was not just reading concepts and problems, I actually began having a fair idea about how things work in real life.
Further, we had a good set of professors to learn from in NUJS and that in itself is a privilege.
How was your experience with internships? Did they help you in the long run?
I planned my internships in order to have a good variety of work experience on my resume.
I have worked with German and Spanish Red Cross Delegations to India, on some stimulating field and research based internships. I value this phase a lot. I have interned with a Singapore based law firm. The exposure to mediation and alternative dispute resolution mechanisms in Singapore was educative.
I have interned at most of the major law firms in India. Somehow, ironically, I never quite enjoyed these much.
You have academically done well both in NUJS as well as in your Junior College and in School. Any actionable tips to score well in law school for our readers?
I came into law school with the single point agenda of not just building a good CGPA but also of getting an education that taught me practical life skills.
I was always very active in all that each of my educational institutes had to offer. In law school as well, I was focussed on diversifying my resume and learning life skills. Since I was never targeting higher education right after law school, I was not obsessed about my CGPA. But I saw so many around me who went to great lengths to gain astronomic scores, irrespective of what they lost out on. I was never a part of this race!
In the semester I had my lowest GPA, I learnt how to swim, interned at some of the best Indian law firms, wrote and published papers and so on. Looking back, I am richer for the things I did, and the way I prioritised my life at that point, than for the GPAs I lost out on.
Therefore, I value life skills over college grades.
Having said that, I should clarify that for all practical reasons like an LLM or an ideal Day Zero job, a CGPA unfortunately is the sine qua non. But there are ways to find a balance.
I really wish law firms and other recruiters found a more comprehensive way to look at a person’s life experiences. Law is all about the real life dynamics. It should not be evaluated solely on the merits of how many sections one crams or how high your scores shoot up! These are fairly important, but eventually, parts of a whole. At present, these things are treated with undue importance, if I can put it that way.
You were an avid mooter in your law school and participated in national moots. How does mooting help if you choose a non-legal career?
Firstly, I have not really been an ‘avid’ mooter! Yes, I have mooted and enjoyed it. But I have never been obsessed about it really. I did it as something that I ought to have done as a young law student, so that later there were no regrets. NUJS has a thriving mooting culture which is difficult to avoid initially.
As such, mooting structures the thought process of fresh law students. It teaches valuable research skills, presentation of arguments and marshalling of facts. Most importantly, it equips us to look at both sides of a fact. All of these are precious skills, irrespective of which profession one eventually chooses. To illustrate my point, my debating and mooting skills helped me do well at my law firm interviews. My UPSC personality test was also much easier to deal with, given the continued exposure to speaking. And it certainly has helped me improve my inter-personal and communication skills as a professional.
Did you enjoy legal writing while at law school?
To be honest, I was more interested in legal writing and research than mooting. I was in the Magazine Committee with a team of absolutely talented seniors to learn from. I was associated with the NUJS Law Review for a fairly long time, beginning as a junior Associate Member and then subsequently rising to become an Editor. This phase taught me crucial skills like attention to detail, communication, financial and regular administration. In addition, I was taught the important of rigorously skimming through many papers, picking out the better ones and editing them thoroughly. The unique NUJS Law Review model has been path-breaking. I am glad I was a part of it, at a time when this institution was being built from scratch by Professor MP Singh and a team of brilliant seniors.
After law school you joined AMSS, Mumbai. How was the BigLaw experience?
(At AMSS, Abhishek worked for almost a year in the firm’s Private Equity/Mergers and Acquisitions Team)
It was my first job, a day zero placement at that. It shall always be very special. Mumbai shall always be close to my heart for various reasons. I had always wanted to work with a major Indian law firm. But with each of my internships I realised, that I was growing disenchanted with the entire idea of corporate law firms and the typical lifestyle changes that are inevitable.
The real life experience at AMSS made me realize that only corporate law, or even law for that matter, would not motivate me. It had to be more holistic, more challenging, and this transition had to happen on my terms.
When and how did you decide to go for the civil services?
The intersection of law, policy and governance deeply interests me. The Civil Services promised that along with great diversity and a unique opportunity to work for the people directly. I was very happy being a lawyer, but I was not satisfied with just that. I wanted to marry policy and governance to it, which is why the shift to bureaucracy made sense. In many ways, the UPSC CSE presented the next level for me as a lawyer: that is, connecting the citizens and public with law and governance.
But I wanted to pursue this career for the right reasons. So I first decided to put in my papers. I did not leave AMSS because I wanted to do the UPSC CSE.
I left the lure of a very prestigious and glamorous job at the best Indian law firm, because it did not align with my vision and priorities in life. After two months of resigning, I finally struck out all other competing and compelling alternative career choices, and decided that I should give the UPSC exams a shot. It was based on a year-long and excruciating cost-benefit analysis, which had started while I was still in AMSS.
For me, it has always been about following my inner vision and motivation: with some courage, a lot of guts and an unfailing faith in my actions and thoughts. The thrill of risks, backed with thorough background research, gives me an adrenaline rush! I did not write myriad exams just for practice, as many of my friends did. My only singular priority was clearing the UPSC CSE. Nothing more, but nothing less!
To gain exposure for UPSC, what all did you do?
I pursued independent legal and policy research. I got back to blogging on different genres and themes. That helped me in my UPSC preparation tremendously. I was attached to an international NGO, which helped me appreciate the grassroots issues. I was blogging for a junior from law school, on her website www.lawschoolsterrace.com. I liked connecting with the young law school students community through this.
I did not want to be just another aspirant, doing what lakhs of people always do: only study! I wanted to pursue my interests and hobbies also. I wanted to grow as an individual. I wanted to reflect that in my attitude towards this exam.
Tell us what drove you to join the Indian Revenue Service? What were your service preferences?
My service preferences were: IAS-IRS–IPS-IFS.
This is not going to be my first job and as such, I have no star dust in my eyes regarding the civil services. I can only do a job that I am interested in really, and one that fits into my larger vision -personally and professionally. The IRS fit the bill perfectly.
You have secured a very high rank in the UPSC Exam. Tell our readers how to prepare for these exams to achieve success and on preparations you underwent to crack the exam.
This was my second attempt. I failed to clear the prelims in my first attempt as I had no understanding of what the UPSC expects of the students. Lack of focus and complacency are largely to be blamed in hindsight.
I prepared for a year all by myself at Bhubaneswar. I moved to Delhi for around 3 months and joined Sriram’s IAS. Sriram Sir was the perfect mentor I could ask for. That short stint helped me consolidate my preparation. I came back home for my second attempt in 2014, and joined Career Launcher and another local institute, Aarohan, for prelims tests only. I did not attend the classes at these places. I only wanted to polish my preparation.
I made use of the internet and newspapers thoroughly. I wrote tests regularly and had a fixed, yet flexible timetable with daily, monthly and exam level targets. My uncle, Mr. Santosh Behera, helped me prepare systematically for the personality test round.
How do you plan to go ahead in time?
As long as I am committed to my job, and keep referencing back to my law school training, I can ensure I do my work as is expected of me. The biggest impact often comes from doing the simplest of acts with great faith, honesty and sincerity.
Please give our young readers and followers some tips to help them ace the mighty UPSC.
Focus, and you shall have it!
Many of us are obsessed with our Plans B, C, D so much that Plan A (clearing the UPSC) gets compromised. A friend of mine told me once that there is a reason Plan A takes time. Give it the time and energy it deserves. It will reward you, one way or the other.
If I were to borrow the thoughts and words of the Greek poet, Constantine Cavafy, this ‘Journey to Ithaca’, is totally worth its while! So enjoy the process, and wait for success to come at its own time!
Sajai Singh graduated in B.Sc from St. John’s College, Agra and later qualified in law from Delhi University in 1990. Sajai is currently a partner at J. Sagar & Associates and the Chairperson of the firm’s Corporate Commercial Practice. Having experience spanning over more than 25 years, Sajai is an acclaimed transactional lawyer. Sajai has been the President of the International Technology Lawyers Association and is a member of the American Bar Association. In this interview he shares with us:
His college life, education and becoming a partner at JSA.
His experience as the past president of International Technology Lawyers Association, and also the field of Technology law.
The work entailed in his position and the field of corporate law dealt with.
How would you like to introduce yourself to our readers, most of whom are aspiring lawyers?
I am a first generation lawyer. My growing up years were spent moving from one cantonment to another as my father was in the Indian Army. Growing up in the army background bought a sense of discipline and commitment in me. I changed schools every two years if not earlier and my first exposure to living in a big city was when my father was posted to London and I joined him after completing my 12th Board exams, for one year.
Could you tell us a little about your college life and why you decided to pursue a legal career?
In college I studied Science. Chemistry was my favourite subject. Post College I studied Business Management and had an interest in International Trade. As I read more about International Trade, I realised the interplay and the key role played by Law. It was the glue that made business possible in an organised and harmonious manner. Without the principles of law governing every aspect of business, a business transaction, like may others, would be anarchic. We had to keep referring to the ‘rules’ to answer any response to a ‘why’, a ‘how’ or a ‘what’. This was interesting, and at the same time intriguing. That’s when I got interested in study of Law. Subsequently, I joined the Campus Law Centre, Delhi University.
You completed degrees in B.Sc and PGD Business Management before pursuing law. Have these courses helped you in your work?
Not just my qualification in Science and Business Management but also my secondary education in the Kendriya Vidyalaya system helped my overall growth and awareness, eventually assisting my study and practice of Law. Science taught me technical skills, while my Business Management background developed my analytical skills. My multidisciplinary exposure helps me understand the needs of my corporate clients better.
What kind of activities did you take part in while at law school?
Writing has always been a passion for me. While studying Law in the 80’s, mooting and debating opportunities were fewer compared to today. We made the most of the opportunities that came our way. Students today are blessed to have far more opportunities and avenues open to them. And they are not limited by geography.
Did you do many internships while at law school? In retrospect, how important were these internships in shaping your career?
Internship opportunities were few during my Law School days. I was, however, working while studying law. My passion for writing got me an opportunity in a leading advertising agency and I used to work in the copy department of the same. I also did part time work at Doordarshan and All India Radio. From the money I earned, I paid my rent and met my other needs. While the money I earned was not much, things were simpler, choices were scarce and my needs were simple. It were these life experiences that helped me realise the value of hard work.
Having participated in a number of international programmes and workshops, what would you say were you biggest take-aways from each?
I feel international exposure not only builds confidence for people from developing nations but also allows one to understand how to function in a flat world. The learning is both ways between developing and developed economies; between modern and ancient cultures; and between different professions. I have been lucky to have done courses in Wharton and with the Euromoney Institute. But the single most impactful experience for me was with the Centre of International Legal Studies/(CILS) Austria. I did a Certification Program in International Practice with them. This program took me to Dallas, where I spent 4 months working with the US law firm, Jackson & Walker. This time was an eye opener and prepared me for my forth coming move to set up open and run the Bangalore office of JSA in 1996.
You have worked with J. Sagar & Associates (JSA) for 23 years now. Can you tell us the best and worst things about working in a corporate environment in general, and JSA in particular?
I started my career as a Litigator. I moved to Corporate Law after 2 years of Litigation and Arbitration practice. I would recommend all future corporate lawyers to have some exposure to Litigation and the Court system before they shift work exclusively in the Corporate Law field. My tip on this point for aspiring lawyers would be to spend as much time in the Court Registry as they can. This exposure is key to understanding process and how the backbone of the justice system works. Contentious work develops quick thinking, contextualising and research ability, which is very useful for a Corporate Lawyer. While exciting in its own way, it may take time for Corporate Law work to replace the adrenal rush of arguing a matter before judge.
My Experience in Corporate law field is limited to JSA. Therefore, I would not be able to comment in general about corporate law firms. JSA has been a very International, forward looking and broad canvas exposure for me. Its institutional character, ethical rooting and transparent interactions make it a very happy and comfortable environment to practice law in.
As the Chair of JSA’s Corporate Commercial Practice, how do you recall your career traversed to bring you to your current position? What is your current work profile like?
Since 1992, when I joined JSA, some months after it started, I worked extensively for multinational clients setting up business in India. Those were the years when India was slowly liberalising its economy and JSA was working closely with its overseas clients to try and maximise value for them as a part of their India entry strategy. Other than foreign exchange regulations, the other laws that I initially worked with were Company Law and Contract Law. With years of focus on these statutes I had a background which led to me being made the Chair of JSA’s Corporate Commercial Practice. It is my endeavour to continuously expand this practice including in areas that I am passionate about and feel will become strong practice areas in their own right very soon. These are Employment Law, Anti-corruption Law, Data Protection & Cyber Security. I am doing a fair amount of work in both these areas. In terms of my work profile, in addition to doing billable work, I am also expected to create a business development strategy, training schedules and curriculum, recruitment and HR needs and implement them for the overall growth of the practice.
Please tell us how do you approach work with regard to management and delegation.
As with any progression it is important to nurture the younger generation and allow it to grow develop and play a larger role. I follow the same principle in my practice. I have always been surrounded by brilliant young lawyers who have worked closely with me in delivering extraordinary service to clients. I believe in delegation. I believe in trusting my colleagues and their ability. At the same time I do feel a challenging is a good way to obtain the best performance. Unless a matter requires involved supervision or is evolving with time, I tend to keep my role limited to supervision and emerging essentials.
Tell us about an interesting case you handled recently. What is your favourite part in the life cycle of a given matter or case?
One of the recent anti-corruption investigations, that I worked on, involved out-of-the-box time critical thinking. Most of the challenges came from the human element rather than from a law or a regulator. And it is the ingenuity of the human mind that emerges as the most fascinating aspect of any transaction. Unravelling and anticipating this aspect is my favourite part. Using technology as an able tool has proven to be a wonderful experience.
How did you develop an interest in Technology law?
(Sajai was the immediate past-president of the International Technology Lawyers Association, which is a first for any Asian.)
I have always been interested in new areas of law, which evolve with the development of Society. Be it Television Broadcast Law, Cable Television Law, Copyright Law, or information Technology Law, I have seen all of them evolve before my eyes and these have been fascinating experiences. I am sure there will be other and newer areas of law that will grab my fancy in the coming years. I look forward to that.
Please give us some practical insight into the Information Technology sector in India juxtaposed with the same in the global context.
From being the back office of the world, India today provides the world cutting edge consulting and advisory support. I see entrepreneurs come up with new ideas and technological breakthrough on an encouragingly frequent basis. I do hope India would evolve into an IT product, Software and Patent creations hub in the near future.
Could you please provide us with some context in regards your long standing association with the American Bar Association?
Since most of my clients were American Corporates doing business in India, I had to closely work with US lawyers and US General Counsel. These interactions led to me being invited to speak at several Seminars and Conferences, including those organised by PLC, IBA and ABA. These and many other associations welcomed me and my thoughts into their fold.
ABA seemed a natural fit for my practice as it helped me understand the US legal landscape. My clients operated in this space and I had to keep abreast with it if I wanted to adequately service my clients, Thus began my association with ABA.
Please tell us a bit more about the Private Equity and Venture Capital Committee that you are the Chair of.
As a part of my leadership of the PE/VC Committee, I collated International experiences, regulations and understanding to what may be considered a cross border phenomenon – PE/VC investments. These collated thoughts, updates and experiences were presented to the Committee members at meetings and online.
You conducted skill development courses on Negotiation and Transactional skills at the NLS Bangalore. What is the structure and curicula of this course?
I like to teach and work with students. They have so many new ideas and life is looked at with different perspectives. As a part of this interest I taught at the National Law School, University of India Bangalore. Now due to time constraint I’m only able to conduct shorter skill development programs and not teach semesters as in the past. My Negotiation Skills and Transaction Skills Courses were focused on practical development of the students rather than on teaching theory. I wanted to provide my students with an opportunity to understand how negotiations are conducted in practice and the life cycle of a transaction with several live examples exercises and fact patterns. My students got an opportunity to role play in a controlled environment which I hoped would prepare them for the practice of corporate law.
I also conduct legal workshops in different universities across the world as a part of my education initiative for ITechLaw. The recent ones that I conducted were in Colombia, Ecuador, Peru and Chile. I hope to conduct one in Cuba next year.
What advice would you like passed on to an aspiring lawyer?
My advice to any aspiring lawyer is to remain curious, ask questions and try to learn one new thing every day!
Malek-ul-Ashtar Shipchandler, a 2014 batch graduate of ILS, Pune, is currently an Associate of Securities, Financial Regulatory, Corporate Law at Shardul Amarchand Mangaldas, having already worked with Economic Laws Practice (ELP) for a year.
In this interview, he speaks to us about:
The significance of the Company Secretary (CS) course;
The experience of a Vacation Scheme at Clifford Chance;
The relevance of certification courses; and
The ability to continue with legal writing even after joining a law firm.
Would you say that high school experiences led you to choose law?
(Malek was part of the Student Council at school and participated in Model United Nations (MUNs) simulations, both as a delegate and Secretary General, and attended the Global Young Leaders Conference (GYLC) in Washington D.C and New York.)
These experiences were definitely instrumental, coupled with encouragement from my family and teachers who saw in me an aptitude for oration and argumentation. I chose to be a commerce student in my penultimate and final year at school, perhaps because I was not exceptional at science related subjects but did fairly well in commerce related subjects such as economics and business administration studies; towards the end of my final year at school, the choice for me was either finance or law.
Please share with our readers your experience at law school. What kind of activities did you participate in? How did you develop an interest for moot courts?
Studying at ILS Law College was an excellent experience for someone who thrives in an atmosphere wherein you are not given a map of how to go about grooming yourself as a budding lawyer; except for the compulsory lectures, one is absolutely free to pursue other diplomas/courses, peruse books and journals in one of the best law libraries in India, participate in advocacy competitions, get involved in organizational activities, articulate views for publication in law journals, contribute to academic discussions post lecture in various “cells”, work with a law firm or a counsel, or simply do nothing and enjoy the cold coffee at the ILS Canteen! It has been an inspiring and humbling experience being taught by some luminaries in their own subjects, interacting with and being guided by seniors who have achieved milestones in their careers, and studying along with some stellar students who are currently not only doing well in law, but other fields as well.
I primarily participated at intra-college and national moot courts and contributed to discussions at post-college “cells”. As a fresher and sophomore, I remember watching some brilliant seniors argue at moot courts and parliamentary debates – this sparked the keenness in me to participate in moot courts myself. Watching seniors argue at moot courts also helped me to not only understand the basics of fundamental laws like contract, torts and constitution but also gave me a chance to learn and imbibe in myself moot crafting skills such as presentation of facts, articulation of arguments, modulation of voice, rapport building with, and responding to, questions raised by the judges and rebutting contentions put forth by the opponent team.
How did you decide to pursue the CS course? In the long run, do you think that this degree gives one an edge over other law school graduates?
(During Malek’s second year at law school he started pursuing the Company Secretary (CS) course.)
Pursuing CS came as a natural decision due to my inclination towards finance as well as corporate law, coupled with the fact that I had time on hand after attending lectures. Having studied for and attempting CS examinations, I am of the opinion that apart from giving you a flavour of basic concepts in company law, securities law, banking-finance law and taxation law, the way the ICSI frames its exam papers is far more objective, and challenges your legal cognitive, as compared to mere rote-writing. The CS course helps one to understand the inter-play between different corporate laws, apart from teaching how to read and interpret basic company financials – a skill very useful for corporate lawyers who interact with Promoters, CFOs and GCs, conduct diligences and draft commercial agreements.
Do you believe ADR competitions are important, but are shadowed by the more popular moot courts in law schools? How do you think this could be changed?
(Malek has also extensively participated in negotiation and client counselling competitions, nationally and internationally, and thereafter even judged such competitions.)
There is no question of one advocacy activity “shadowing” the other. Moot courts and ADR related activities, I believe, are complimentary to each other in holistically grooming a budding law student. Most traditional law schools in India prefer the modus of teaching only by lecturing (rather an encouraging participative discussions or simulation learning), and that too on aspects necessary for examination purposes.
While lectures on CPC and CrPC, and sessions on moot courts, allow students to imbibe the skill of argumentation, cross-examining and drafting, it unfortunately does not hone the art of personal communication, explaining the law to laymen in simple terms, understanding and syncing the clients’ expectations with legal modalities, and devising commercially viable solutions. These skills, I believe are indispensable for any lawyer, be it a litigator or a transactional lawyer.
Most law students associate advocacy competitions as synonymous with moots courts and mock trials, perhaps because the number of negotiation or client counselling competitions that happen in India are far lesser in comparison to the number of moot courts. Law schools and law firms need to collaborate together and initiate more of such ADR related activities and competition. From my experience of founding the first ever negotiation competition at ILS Law College, I can say that the inputs of practicing lawyers or GCs (as compared to professors) to such activities/competitions is crucial for the quality of the activity/competition.
You interned primarily at corporate law firms. Where did this inclination towards corporate law start from?
John Grisham may have had a role to play! On a more serious note, I actually started my internships learning at places known for litigation. My first internship was with Hariani & Co, followed by the chambers of the then Attorney General, the late Mr. Goolam Vahanvati. Being in the second and third year of law school, more than learning the law or the procedure, it was through these litigation related experiences that I understood research methodologies, articulation of thought on paper i.e. how to draft legal notes/memos and documents management – skills which eventually helped during my corporate law internships. I believe as a law student, for the initial years at least, one must try everything and not wear blinkers concentrating on either just “litigation” or “corporate”.
My inclination towards corporate law was sparked when I participated at the NLIU Juris Corp Moot Court Competition which gave me a chance, while researching on the moot problem, to identify and understand certain transactional nuances in securities and competition law which ultimately led to a dispute in court. I must admit that certain facets of litigation, such as argument drafting and strategy, really interest me; I am grateful that so far in my career, along with corporate-transactional work, I have been getting to do some work focussed on the Securities Appellate Tribunal and appearances before the Securities and Exchange Board of India.
You experienced a vacation scheme at Clifford Chance. Was it different from Indian law firm internships?
The experience can be comparable to internships offered by certain Indian law firms. Global firms such as Clifford Chance have very structured work experience schemes, almost like a course by itself, which involves learning and development of the Schemer through work assignments, attending in-house lectures, insights into the workings of different teams handling different practice areas and networking opportunities with the professionals at the firm. Firms such as Clifford Chance are driven by a philosophy of investing in their lawyers, right from the time one begins a training contract with them.
I would encourage the readers, that given a choice between doing a LL.M and taking up a training contract, the latter should be considered hands down; there is no better teacher of practicing law than actual work experience, given the fact that law we read while studying is often very different from how it operates/is applied in the real world.
You have scored a remarkable 99/100 in the FICCI’s certification course on Competition Laws and IP Rights. How far do you think these certification courses help a law student?
Most traditional law schools often do not have specialized laws as part of their curriculum and are therefore not taught, at least as a core subject. Certification courses facilitate the learning of specialized laws, and are generally designed in such a manner, that it can be undertaken simultaneously while continuing your regular college activities. While there is a culture among law students of enrolling in parallel courses early on, it might make more sense to wait until the 4th or 5th year (or 3rd year in case of a three-year program) to assess where exactly one’s inclination lies – this is possible after participating in advocacy competitions, doing internships or writing papers – avenues through which one can understand what it is like to “practice” the specialized law, and not merely “read” it. From a CV building point of view during law school, especially if you have applied to intern under a particular practice group, certification courses would be a plus.
Did you face difficulties in the beginning of your work at ELP? When did the transformation from a law student to a lawyer take place?
(After graduating from law school, Malek joined Economic Laws Practice (ELP) and worked there for over a year.)
It is only natural to feel challenged (not, “difficult”) when one moves from one life chapter to another viz. the academic chapter a.k.a “fun phase” to the professional a.k.a “real world phase”! That said, having interned previously at law firms and being a part of a great team headed by Mr. Suhail Nathani, made the transition for me as a student to a lawyer not only easy, but also memorable. Believe it or not, your perspective about practicing law is greatly impacted by your first job, team and senior.
Do you believe that drafting contracts, legal opinions and other legal documents is an essential skill that most law schools in India omit to teach their students?
I believe most law schools lay emphasis on teaching the principles of contract law as compared to actually teaching a student how to draft a contract. That said, law schools such as ILS Law College not only has a contract drafting competition but also has a subject on drafting which is taught by a renowned lawyer, Mr. Ajit Kulkarni – I still remember, his lectures were attended by non-ILS students as well as lawyers! Most traditional law schools, instead of asking students to take hand written notes of contract templates (which are otherwise available online), could consider equipping students with, and evaluating them on basic skills of drafting such as formatting, cross referencing and even proof-reading, and impart knowledge on aspects of stamp duty and registration – these are essential for drafting most contracts.
You are now an Associate at Shardul Amarchand Mangaldas, Mumbai. What is your work profile there? Could you share your experience at the firm so far?
A usual day for me at SAM involves team meetings, tending to client queries over phone call or email, preparation of memos/notes and drafting and reviewing of transaction related documents. We also advise on securities litigation matters, and as such, whenever required, we draft submissions to be made to the concerned authorities. Some transactions require me to work with other specialist teams in the firm, allowing me to benefit from their domain knowledge and experience. Besides encouraging regular interaction with the partners who have a plethora of experience and knowledge in their respective practice areas, the firm underscores the need for overall development of its lawyers and has implemented programs/policies where SAM lawyers share their opinions and experiences relating to a particular legislation and/or matter – this allows one to be up to date on contemporary legal developments and bake an opinion on certain contentious aspects – a must for any lawyer!
Do you think it is important for legal professionals and law students to make their presence felt online?
I believe, as will most people, that visibility is the key for growth in any profession. It would no doubt be helpful to reduce one’s time on social networking websites, and invest that time on professional networking websites such as LinkedIn.
How do you find the time to research and write legal articles? Could you share a few tips with our readers on how to go about legal writing?
Let me answer the question this way: I generally find time to write during early hours of the morning before work, or on a weekend, because writing helps me analyze cogently, organize logically, distil accurately, argue persuasively, cite knowledgeably, punctuate skilfully, and phrase smoothly, among other things. Some coveted blogs and forums also elicit the comments of experienced professionals and luminaries (either concurring or differing from the views expressed in the article) on the article, which is enlightening to read. I believe everyone has their own way of building their knowledge of the law and expressing their interpretation and application of it – legal writing is one such way which quite a few law graduates appear to adopt.
To the readers, I can share that, while writing, I tend to implement certain guidelines which appear in a publication of the American Bar Association: “…you must struggle to achieve simplicity—and learn to achieve it without oversimplifying. That’s a tall order in an intellectually challenging discipline like the law.
And it’s especially tall when you think of the overwhelming attraction that legalese presents to the average mind. With “pursuant to” and “assuming arguendo” and “hereinafter” and “inter alia”, you have ready-made shortcuts for feeling lawyerly. They’re like secret handshakes. They seem to make you a member of the club. Without them, you’ll feel like your pre–law-school self at a time when you may really want to feel a difference. Never mind that they typify low-grade legal writing.”
What is your message to young law students?
“Work until you no longer have to introduce yourself” is a mantra I endeavour to live by – try it!
Sagar Singamsetty did his undergraduate law studies from NALSAR University, Hyderabad in 2003 and his LL.M. in air and space law at the University of Leiden, the Netherlands, in 2006. Having a passionate interest in the highly niche field of air and space law, Sagar has, right since the beginning, fearlessly tread off the conventional track to do well in this field. It is because of this reason that he has continued to work for good firms and has climbed the ladder successfully, one step at a time. Currently the Senior International Legal Advisor for FedEx Express, he resides in Brussels, Belgium, he has also published a book on air and space law, ‘Contemporary Issues and Future Challenges in Air and Space law’ in 2011.
He talks to SuperLawyer about:
His life at law school and how he started inclining towards the field of air and space law
His decision to join the Leiden University to pursue Masters
His general advice to students interested in air and space law but fear pursuing it as it is a highly niche field
His experience at a variety of firms and his work profile in each of them
His take on how to balance work and family
His future plans
How would you introduce yourself to our readers?
I would introduce myself as an airplane lover. It is my love for airplanes that gives wind beneath my wings to excel. Aviation is close to my heart and I am lucky to work as in-house counsel in this fascinating sector for 10 years now. I wanted to become a pilot but someone above had a different path chosen for me. Looking back, I can only be happy about the decision to take up law as my profession.
What made you choose law as your profession? Is there anyone in your family who has been in the legal profession?
Law was never my preferred option. I always thought law is for the intellectuals. If not for my father’s intervention at that time, which I see as a master stroke from him, I would not have chosen law as my profession. I am the first person in my family to graduate with a law degree.
Tell us about life at law school. What subjects interested you the most while in law school?
(Sagar went to the NALSAR University, Hyderabad)
Being the first batch of Nalsar University, we had a great opportunity to build a legal institution of national repute. I am proud of what we did as Nalsarites over the years for the legal community in India and abroad. Yes, the first couple of years, infrastructure was very limited and resources were stretched to the maximum. Like in any new institution, the law school and its students had to go through an experimental phase that did raise questions, including the sustainability of the institution itself. Looking back, I can only say that the biggest advantage law schools like Nalsar University have is their students who come from all over the country. This brought a certain level of exposure which improved the overall experience of being in a national law school.
I was an average student in the class and was just trying my best to get through the routine – exams, papers, presentations and internships every semester. Arbitration law, contract and property law, law and poverty, international law (public and private) and international trade law are some subjects that had my attention. It was in my international law class that I learnt this specific area of law relating to aviation and space sector. In my 4th year of law school I decided to work in aerospace sector and I was confident that given an opportunity to take-off in this niche area, I will touch the skies.
How active were you in co-curricular and extracurricular activities? What kind of internships did you do as a law student? Did any of the internships have a special impact on you?
Let me tell you this. My first 2 years were gone in trying to understand what I was supposed to be doing in law school. Then in my 3rd year, there was some sense of direction but still no clarity. It was only in the 4th and 5th years of my law school life that I started realizing the need to do more. Yes, I had a few papers to my name; did few internal moots to taste what they are like; and presented a few papers at conferences and seminars. In terms of extracurricular activities, I was part of the Hospitality and Disciplinary Committees. Nothing to boast about!
When it came to internships, I made choices that helped me gain good experiences. I never missed an opportunity to do my internship along with studies. In each internship, starting with an NGO to a High Court Judge to practising senior lawyer in Supreme Court of India to a law firm that did aviation work, there was a lot to learn and experience outside the four walls of the law school and the law library. Of course, reading, understanding and applying legal principles to an issue at hand is important for us as lawyers. However, I observed that beyond these legal principles lay a fundamental aspect – the commitment to satisfy the requirements of a lawyer’s internal and external clients. The level of confidence you give to your client is a key performance indicator and this will determine your success as a lawyer (in-house or practising). This is a key take away point from all my internships in India and abroad (in UK and the Netherlands) and should remain a key take away point for any budding lawyer.
What was the work like at International Legal and Trade Consultants?
(Right after graduation from NALSAR, Sagar worked as a Legal Assistant at ILTC)
I had an offer from ILTC and Satyam Computers (now called Mahindra Satyam) during the on-campus recruitment at Nalsar University. I chose ILTC (head office in New York) because it was a small law firm with a focus on corporate law and immigration laws, and my idea was to leave the job after a year to do my higher studies at Leiden University. ILTC, headed by Mr. Madhu Yaskhi (former MP Congress Party), was planning to set-up their legal support services company (LPO provider) in Hyderabad. It turned out that I did less of legal work and more of letter writing for and on behalf of Mr. Yaskhi, who decided during my time at ILTC to join Indian politics. As a fresh graduate I used to wonder if that is what I am supposed to be do in my job! I have to say, looking back, that accidental experience is what I am doing today as a full-time job in my role as regulatory affairs counsel in Brussels, Belgium. As someone said to me once, in law profession every experience counts.
What made you decide to pursue Air and Space Law for your Masters? How did you decide upon Leiden University and what was your experience?
This decision did not take place overnight. First, my passion for aerospace led to a decision at Nalsar University to pursue this subject; second, I worked hard to get decent grades in international law related subjects and wrote research papers in space law; and third, my determination to contribute something to the field of law that is ignored by many had driven me to take up this challenging opportunity and I believed there was a lot to explore.
Only two universities (at that time), Leiden University and McGill University, offered a Masters level programme in air and space law. A European country was my preferred destination, therefore, McGill was immediately out of contest and I did not make an application as well. I learnt from my mentor and Head, Centre for Air and Space Law (CASL) at Nalsar University, Prof. Balakista Reddy, that some of the best teachers in this field of law are at the Institute of Air and Space Law, Leiden University. The program also gave an opportunity to do internship in aviation or space sector(s), which was a real bonus for a student to gain practical experience. So, Leiden University was without any doubt the best choice to pursue my studies in air and space law. Once I knew it will be Leiden University, I looked for scholarships available for Indian students. I was lucky to receive Huygens Scholarship from the Dutch government based on merit.
During my studies at Leiden University, I was accompanied by a group of passionate supporters of aerospace industry who came from various parts of the world. We all had fun during our studies but never got out of focus from the actual goal we had individually set for ourselves. I had the opportunity to represent Leiden at the Manfred Lachs Space Law Moot Court Competition and also got elected to be the President of the class for the year 2004-2005. So, I did more than what I expected of myself and my overall experience at Leiden University was simply ‘superb’. Let me also tell you that today, we have a strong Leiden alumni network around the world where we share knowledge, experience and also assist the younger batches to find internships (if lucky, a job opportunity too). I have no regrets about taking the decision to join Leiden University and choosing to live in the land of tulips, the Netherlands.
Most students who have an interest in the field of Air and Space Law hesitate to pursue Masters in this arena of international law owing to how niche it is, and how difficult it is to find jobs. What would you recommend to such students?
There is definitely a degree of uncertainty with these areas of practice. Lot of people thought I was mad when I told them that I am interested to pursue this field of law. First question or the only question was who is going to employ you? Will there be any scope for you to practice this law in India? There was no answer to the query except for my self-belief that my decision will not fail me.
Honestly, this is a difficult question to answer. Some term this as a super specialised area of law. In my opinion, areas like air and space law should not be seen in isolation. Yes, it is a niche area but if you combine this specialization with general subjects of law, like corporate law, commercial law, competition law, insurance law, tax law and others, the opportunities are endless.
To anyone who wishes to pursue higher studies, I strongly recommend working for minimum two to three years after their undergraduate studies. This allows them to gain the required experience (learn how law works in practice) and the time to better understand their own interests in the field of law. There will be a huge difference when one makes a decision to pursue higher studies after a few years of gaining some work experience.
For those who wish to pursue studies in the Netherlands, visit www.nuffic.nl to find out more about the courses and the scholarships that are available for students from India. Always remember that your rationale for choosing a university for higher studies should be either because 1) the course programme really interests you and you believe that the course will add value to your already existing knowledge (university ranking is not important here); or 2) the university is in tier 1 group. This means, the brand name and the alumni network will further your interests. Do not choose a university because someone told you or because of some ranking available online. It is an important decision in your life and make sure you evaluate all the options that are available to you and always try to get a scholarship even if it covers your costs partially.
How did you gain employment at AerCap Aviation Solutions? What was your experience here like?
(After graduating from Leiden University, Sagar worked at AerCap Aviation Solutions)
I got an internship opportunity at AerCap as a student of Leiden University, which later turned into a job in their contracts team. AerCap is an aircraft leasing company having their head office in the Netherlands with a fleet of over 1,000 owned and managed commercial aircraft. I was a senior member of the Contracts Department for the Asia-Pacific Region that handled complex, high-value lease contracts for the regional airline clientele. The nature of the job was very international and the legal issues spanned various jurisdictions, which made my experience in the aircraft leasing sector all the more worthwhile. Leasing and financing of aircraft involves a great deal of collaboration between tax, finance, insurance, risk and legal. This cross-functional dialogue enhanced my knowledge of commercial aviation business in general and expanded my opportunities beyond aircraft leasing sector. It was during this time I decided to take a transfer test to qualify as a Solicitor in UK, which I successfully passed.
You shifted to TNT Express. Why this move? What was the work like?
Leaving an exciting job at a company like AerCap was not easy for me. It was a difficult decision but a decision that I had to make to further my own career. TNT is an express company that delivers goods ranging from documents and parcels to palletised freight. TNT having its own fleet of aircraft and ground vehicles provided me with the opportunity to expand my legal horizon beyond aircraft leasing. Cargo (or specifically express cargo) isn’t something that comes across as a fancy sector to work for legal professionals. I took the job because I always wondered why people were just fond of passenger sector when transportation of goods is equally important for the growth of an economy. I started as a Legal Counsel where my primary responsibility was to draft and negotiate contracts for the Sales, IT and Procurement departments.
Given my aviation experience, I was later appointed as Senior Counsel at TNT Airways, the airline division of TNT Express. During this time, I worked on the purchase of B777 aircraft(s), wet leased and sub-leased aircraft, and aircraft maintenance agreements, amongst others things. Due to family reasons, I could not continue to work for the airline division and moved back into a different role in the head office of TNT. The role is completely different as I chose to become a Regulatory Affairs Manager for Europe dealing with Customs and Aviation Security related issues. In express cargo sector, customs and security issues are to be handled diligently to avoid any disruptions to the operations of the business. TNT was where I learnt about the express business and developed both my legal and regulatory skills.
You have now been working as Senior International Legal Advisor at FedEx Express. What has the experience been like, thus far?
After 5 years at TNT Express, someone came across my profile on LinkedIn and wanted to discuss about a position at FedEx Express. FedEx Express is the world’s largest express transportation company, providing fast and reliable delivery to more than 220 countries and territories worldwide. My role is to advise the management of the regulatory developments affecting or potentially affecting the operations of FedEx in Europe. The regulatory issues covered as part of my responsibility, to name a few, include international aviation regulations; customs and aviation security; export control laws and trade sanctions; and transport and environment. The range of policy and regulatory issues require a good understanding of our business model and especially about our operations across Europe and worldwide. Having moved to Brussels, Belgium recently I am also enjoying my engagement with European institutions in developing meaningful policies for our sector (transport sector in general).
In your opinion, what qualities should one imbibe in oneself if he wants to rise up the ladder as in-house counsel?
Fortunately or unfortunately, I do not have the experience of working in a law firm (except for my experience at Clyde and Co. in their aviation department). I have always worked as an in-house counsel and I believe these are the three qualities that one has to imbibe in oneself to build his career (either in-house or as a good lawyer):
i) Honesty and integrity in business;
ii) Effective communication skills;
iii) Empathy, especially towards co-workers.
Apart from the above, it is equally important for an in-house counsel (or a lawyer in a law firm) to: 1) understand their business well; and 2) build their knowledge in other areas of law.
To give you an example, I work with external counsel (law firms) around Europe who advise us on various legal and regulatory issues concerning our business. Despite their very good knowledge of law, I do not see any benefit of the advice given by external counsel if they cannot comprehend the business requirements.
As to building knowledge in other areas, do not confine yourself to an area that your job description states. Be ready to accept any challenge that is given even if it is outside the scope of your practice area. In-house counsel should re-invent and adapt to the business requirements to be ahead of others. To give an example from my own personal experience, I started as an aviation lawyer and now I also work on customs (recently completed post-graduate diploma on customs law from Canberra University, Australia), security, and trade and compliance matters.
Is the work and personal life balance manageable in Europe?
I hear a lot and read a lot about this issue. Sorry but this is something an individual has to decide and it has nothing to do with the country or region of this world you are working in. It is this simple – a workplace or a country you choose to live does not provide this balance. You have to decide on your priorities in your life. Once you make your own preferences then this work and life balance will be an issue of the past. Yes, all of us do long hours because that is the nature of our profession but there are other things to do in life – sleep (this is the best I like) or playing sports or doing something that you feel happy about. Most companies based in Europe certainly help their employees lead a better life compared to other parts of the world. However, it is one’s own decision again as to where they wish to draw a line.
What are your plans for the future? Would you consider entering the field of academia?
I like what I do in my job and will continue to develop myself in the path I chose. Yes, academics certainly interest me but I’m not yet sure what part of the academia it will be: coaching, teaching or management! I worked as a Programme Coordinator at Leiden University; was appointed as team coach of moot court teams and was also appointed as Judge at Air Law Moot Court Competition that Leiden University organizes every year; published a book on air and space law, ‘Contemporary Issues and Future Challenges in Air and Space law’; and recently also appointed as Visiting Faculty at Nalsar University for their Air and Space Law programme. So, I’m never out of touch from academics and I commit myself to promote aviation or general transport sector out of my own interest and in my own time.
My parents gave me the best education they could despite their financial difficulties, and my friends supported me in many ways during my difficult times to further my education. I have come a long way to be what I am today because of ‘education’. May be, I got lucky! We see a lot of people, especially kids, who still cannot afford to go to a school to get primary education in various parts of the world. I believe ‘education’ in some form or fashion should reach to one and all. My wife and I together have some plans, which we will certainly execute in the future. That is our wish and it will be our way of giving back to the society.
What is the one advice you would like to give young law students?
Be honest to yourself. Know your strengths and limitations. This understanding about yourself will help you make the right career choices.
Vishnu Ravi Shankar graduated from National Law University, Jodhpur in 2011. He worked at corporate law firms, beginning with Tempus Law Associates in Hyderabad for a year and a half, post which he worked in the Hyderabad and Delhi offices of Trilegal till 2014. Thereafter, he quit to join as a Partner at Ekalavyas, a sports media and talent management enterprise that manages and runs ekalavyas.com.
In this interview, he talks to us about:
His background, inspiration and passion leading him to pursue law
His experience working at corporate law firms and the decision to leave
His decision to work as a Partner at Ekalavayas and the nature of work
His views on the scope of sports and entrepreneurship in India and advice to aspirants in this field.
How would you like to introduce yourself to our readers who are mostly law aspirants, law students and young lawyers?
Well, essentially, I am a corporate lawyer turned entrepreneur who is truly passionate about sports and the business of sport, and the sport of basketball in particular. I used to be a full time corporate lawyer until last year and now, I undertake the dual role of managing my independent corporate law practice along with being a member of the core team at Ekalavyas, a sports media and talent management enterprise that manages and runs www.ekalavyas.com, India’s first and only basketball news website.
Tell our readers a bit about your childhood and pre-college life as well as your educational background. Do you have any lawyers in your family who motivated you to pursue a career in the legal field?
I grew up in a middle-class Telugu family which instilled middle-class values in me. I was born in Chennai, where most of my family is from. The unique aspect of my childhood was that my family lived in a number of places all across the country. I studied in 13 different schools! The good part about all the shifting and moving around was that it familiarized me with the diversity that India had to offer right from a very young age. I experienced the various different cultures of India and this holds me in good stead even today.
I was always into sports. I played basketball, football and cricket at an amateur level, but I was really into swimming and achieved some success at the same at the school level. I was a decent, but not an exceptional student. My parents never pressurized me into choosing any particular career. But the fact that both my father and my grandfather are corporate lawyers did influence me.
In fact, my grandfather was a lawyer as well as a company secretary. My father has been working as an in-house legal counsel for over thirty years, which has included stints in some of India’s biggest companies. So, the profession of law was not something that was alien to me. I had grown up watching my dad go about his business and law was, sort of, a natural choice for me. I was also keen on the practical aspects of companies and businesses and as a result, I pursued Commerce in Classes 11 and 12.
Can you recall any specific incident that made you choose law as a career?
No specific incident as such. As I mentioned earlier, I was inspired by the lawyers in my family. In addition to that, I was quite curious to learn how the legal system of the country works and I had a general spirit of enquiry towards the laws of the land.
How would you describe your experience as a student aspiring to be a professional at NLU Jodhpur?
It was definitely a rewarding experience, but not in the traditional way that you might expect. Obviously, those five years of law school come during a very formative period in your life. From the age of 17 to 22, you live on a residential campus in a hostel environment. It’s a period that does shape your personality to an extent. What I am most thankful for is the friendships I made during those years. Those bonds will remain with me for the rest of my life.
The feeling of playing sports and training with a team was another major aspect of my law school life. That’s the beauty of sport, isn’t it? It teaches you so many life lessons. How to be a leader, how to work in a team, the competition, how to accept defeat and learn from it, the spirit of sportsmanship – it’s just so beautiful. Most of all, you learn from the purity of sport – there are no shortcuts. You just have to put your head down and work HARD.
As regards my legal career, well, having studied in a national law school definitely gave weight to my resume. But academically, the entire law school experience was not ideally what it should have been. Although National Law University, Jodhpur is ranked among the top 5 law schools in India, the reality is that this ranking has very little to do with the quality of teaching there. That ranking and recognition, in my opinion, was mostly built by the students and their own determination to make something of themselves. This was the case with me as well.
I graduated with average grades. But that did not stop me from reaching a good place in my law firm career. So, obviously, there is no set formula for success or for bagging that coveted job placement. But what is essential, in my opinion, is that you continue to gain knowledge and experience. During your initial college years, instead of pre-deciding the field of law you wish to specialize in, I would suggest gaining internship experience working in several different fields. This not only helps you decide what your area of interest is, but also helps you develop a holistic way of thinking, when you are working on any matter. The other factor is to believe in yourself and your ability. Be confident and cut the faff.
What were your areas of interest during your graduation? Did you engage yourself into some extracurricular activities and how was the campus life?
To be honest, for the first two years of my law school life, there was very little that interested me on the academic front. There was too much focus on theory and very little focus on the practical aspects of the legal profession. NLU-J offers an honours system in which you can choose a specialization that ideally would be your calling after you graduate. I chose the field of Business Laws and this is when my interest piqued. Studying the laws that govern businesses, mergers, acquisitions and other corporate transactions was one of the few areas of interest that I had in law school.
Along with the knowledge gained in law school in this area, I also interned in the corporate teams of some of the best law firms in the country and was fortunate to find work pertaining to some fundamental areas of company law. Then, the real knowledge, of course, was gained during my time spent working in law firms.
With regards to extracurricular activities in college, I was mostly into sports – I played on the college basketball team in a few tournaments and the college football team in a couple of tournaments. During my last two years of college, basketball took up most of my extracurricular activity space. We had quite a picturesque basketball court on campus and a bunch of fun guys to play with too. Apart from sports, life on campus was great. There was a lot of freedom given to students during my time, which ensured that kids enjoyed college life the way they should.
Right after graduation, you joined as an Associate at Tempus Law Associates and thereafter Trilegal which is one of the Top law firms in India. What did an average day of work look like?
My first job after graduation was as an Associate with Tempus Law Associates, a mid-size law firm in Hyderabad. My parents were living in Hyderabad at that time, which was convenient as I got a chance to stay at home. As the law firm was still a young and growing one, I got a lot of exposure and first-hand experience advising on matters of corporate law and working on corporate transactions. There was a lot of PE activity in the Hyderabad market at that time in the IT/ ITES sector, mostly with domestic mid-size to established companies. I gained precious experience working on these transactions from end-to-end. As a small and understaffed firm, I got to work on transactions right from the term sheet stage to the due diligence up until the definitive agreements and closing. With this experience under my belt in my first one and half years, I was able to land a job in the Hyderabad office of Trilegal.
When I joined Trilegal, I realized the vast difference in the quality of legal services and the output expected from you. It took me a couple of months to adjust to the expected pace of delivery and quality of work. But once I gained the confidence of my partner and senior associate there, I worked on a number of good transactions. The most important thing that I learned there was the ability to handle matters independently, no matter what the matter was. At the end of the day, as lawyers, no one knows everything there is to know. What is important is that you learn where to look for information, pay attention to detail, approach matters in a logical and structured manner and also take into consideration the practical aspects.
Now the most important question, what made you leave one of the leading law firms, Trilegal, and join as a partner in Ekalavyas? What was the thought process behind taking that decision?
Yes, it was a crucial decision and it did come after a LOT of brainstorming. I was in a good place in my law firm career and the financial incentives were more than adequate. But there is a certain lifestyle that you want to lead and each person has his or her own preferred way of functioning. Although I was happy working on corporate transactions and business laws, the long hours and the way of going about any matter was not to my liking. Besides, sports was my true passion and I realized that I might as well work on something that I was truly passionate about and I had more ownership over. I waited till I had enough savings to last me for a while, and I took the decision to quit and work for Ekalavyas full-time.
What is the motto behind creating Ekalavyas and who are in the core team? What exactly does Ekalavyas do and what is your job role, who are your clients and what are the services offered?
I think for each of the co-founders, the reason behind starting Ekalavyas would be different. The basic idea was to bring attention to non-mainstream sports and sportspersons in India, who are constantly in the shadow of cricket and therefore, immensely suffer.
In any field, a monopoly is never good. There should be always be a healthy balance and fair competition. Unfortunately, when it comes to sports in India, cricket is the dominant sport in the minds and hearts of the majority of the public. A lot has to do with media exposure to a sport. If you really put it in perspective, cricket is played only by a handful of nations and its origins lie in the colonial era. Not that I have anything against cricket. I watch and follow cricket just as much as any other Indian and still continue to do so. But what about people who are passionate about other sports? Do they have to give up their dreams and aspirations of becoming professionals in the sport just because your nation does not pay attention to it? That would be highly unfair and a let down to your fellow countrymen.
Although anti-competitive practices and monopoly is restricted in other sectors in India by law, in the field of sport, there was no restriction to the growth of cricket. Nor should there be, but at the same time, other sports should be given equal attention. Let’s take a fellow commonwealth nation like Australia for example. They are world-beaters in cricket. But at the same time, they manage to qualify for the football world cup, the basketball world cup, are one of the best at rugby and so on and so forth. They even have five-six players currently playing in the top professional basketball league in the world, the NBA.
So the motto behind Ekalavyas is to create an equal and balanced world of sports in India. We aim to bring respect to all sportspersons, irrespective of the sport they choose to excel in. Ekalavyas can be described as a sports media and talent management enterprise. We have started with our focus on Indian basketball, but the plan is to eventually implement this model for other sports as well. On the media front, we are looking to cover as many Indian basketball events and tournaments as possible, as well as major events on the international front. We also provide PR and content creation services for tournament organisers, basketball academies, state basketball associations and other entities.
On the talent management side, we are currently building a database of players and coaches with the aim of finding the right opportunities for them in India and abroad. We have already been involved with sending a couple of India’s best players to play professionally in Japan. We are also focused on building better infrastructure and facilities for basketball around the country. We have a tie-up with sports infrastructure companies for refurbishment of basketball courts. We have a few other ideas and divisions that we intend to begin in due course of time. As a member of the core team, I do have my hands in almost all aspects of the business at some level or the other. But I’m majorly focused on international content for Ekalavyas and the talent management division.
In our short period of existence, we have worked with a variety of clients, both in India and abroad. Some of our major clients include the Basketball Federation of India, NBA team Sacramento Kings and the UBA (Universal Basketball Alliance, the company that organized India’s first professional basketball league). We recently provided location scouting services for basketball courts for an advertisement campaign by Nike. So, with our database of information on players, coaches, referees, basketball courts, etc., we continue to get a range of work from different clients. For more information, visit www.ekalavyas.com.
Vishnu interviewing Satnam Singh (India’s 1st NBA Player)
Tell our readers whether you had a passion for the game of basketball. Did you actively participate in any basketball tournament? How is the work life at Ekalavyas and how do you maintain the work and family life balance?
Yes, of course. I am deeply passionate about basketball. I’ve played the sport at an amateur level throughout my life. In fact, I had the classic ‘hoop in my driveway’ as a kid. But I started taking the sport seriously with regular practice and training only during my college years. I made it to the college basketball team and did participate in a few tournaments. I was a part of the winning team at the sports fest held in RMLNLU, Lucknow. I was the captain of the winning team at the same sports fest the next year. Plus, basketball was a way of life for me in college. We used to play pickup games almost everyday – it was probably the most fun part of college life.
To answer the second part regarding life working at Ekalavyas, it’s obviously good to be your own boss. But this also requires a lot of self-discipline – something that I constantly have to work on! Thing is, I don’t consider this as work. Instead, it’s a way of life. Ekalavyas goes in the direction its founders take it and we only work on those things that interest us. As a business that is still in its initial years, it obviously requires a lot of time and effort. But at the end of day, it’s worth it because we are building something we truly believe in and are passionate about.
Having said that, of course, I still am servicing clients as an independent corporate lawyer and this is necessary for financial sustenance. But since these are also on my own terms, i.e., according to the processes I think best and my own timelines, work-life balance has not really been an issue.
You have been a part of Ekalavyas for a period of more than one year. Tell our readers how the journey has been and the challenges / difficulties encountered by you.
Any startup business faces a number of challenges in its nascent stages. On the personal front, initially, I had to adjust to not receiving a fixed amount of money per month and I had to be careful with the way I spent my money. But as time went on, and money started coming from my legal practice and from Ekalavyas, I gained a certain level of financial comfort.
So far, we have run the business without any external financial aid. We work on a self-sustaining model, where we slowly grow through the revenue earned from providing our services. Without major funding, growth has obviously been slow, but the important point is that we do not have any external pressure or influence in the way we function (which is of paramount importance to us). But now, we’ve reached a stage, where are ready to take things to the next level and will be considering investment offers.
Overall, the journey has been great. I’ve met so many people from literally every state of the country, travelled to so many new places, which I otherwise would have never been able to travel to and I’ve been closely associated with the sport I love. So despite the challenges, I wouldn’t have it any other way.
How did your relatives react to the decision of your quitting Trilegal and joining Ekalavyas? Did your family support you and what was their advice to you?
They were hesitant at first. Understandably, my parents were surprised at my decision to quit Trilegal. They were worried about the financial security I had created for myself. But soon, they realised that I was happy with what I was doing and were very supportive, which was reassuring to me. My parents have always told me to be realistic about anything in life. Their simple advice was that your passion is one thing and it’s great to do something that you’re passionate about. But you have to approach it in a structured manner with long-term vision that yields success. Further, you need to be able to sustain yourself and your lifestyle. I have always kept this advice in mind.
Do you have any plans to pursue higher education in the future, especially in sports laws?
No plans right now. I’m not sure whether any higher education course would be as useful to me compared to the practical experience of running a business. Many of the things that you learn in the real world are rarely taught in any educational institution. As of now, I plan to continue to focus on the growth of Ekalavyas and my independent legal practice. But who knows what the future holds.
Tell our readers what is the growth potential of sports law in India and what suitable measures are needed to promote sports in this country.
Sports law in India is already sort of established. Thing is, sports law is basically an amalgation of various other areas of practice. It involves contract law, labour and employment laws and other commercial laws. Of course, sports law also entails familiarity with international and domestic sporting guidelines (anti-doping, laws governing sporting bodies, professional league rules, etc.). When I was working in the Hyderabad office of Trilegal, I came across my first brush with the field of sports law. I directly worked on drafting of commercial contracts for two prominent cricketers.
With the advent of professional leagues in sports other than cricket and the growing interest in other sports in India, the need for lawyers who specialize in sports law will definitely increase. So, that way, it’s another avenue open for law students today. Unfortunately, sports law is not a course offered in many law schools. NLSIU, Bengaluru, recently held a conference on sports law. So, things are moving in the right direction.
As regards what measures are required to promote sports in the country, well, there is a lot that can be done. Without getting into all that detail, I would simply say that people just need to go out and play! It all starts at home and if people are more sporty and physically active, automatically the respect for various sports and sportspersons will increase. Current facilities and infrastructure should not be used as excuses.
Lastly, what are your plans for the future? What advice would you give law students wishing to work in the niche sector as you?
We have some big plans for the future. We are looking to build a sports conglomerate with focus on various divisions that include media and PR, talent management, coaching and training, sports infrastructure and a lot more.
Look, the advice that I would offer to any student is to focus on living their lives. In college, try and experience as much as you can – don’t hold back, because that time is not going to come back. Apply your own judgment to every situation. Do not just blindly follow people who are senior or higher in command to you. Lastly, try and do something that gives you satisfaction and not something merely for the sake of your bank account.
Finally tell us in which specific role would you like to see yourself-the role of a lawyer, entrepreneur, a founder or a sports enthusiast?
All of them, actually- I am a lawyer, who is also an entrepreneur and founder as well as a major sports enthusiast.
Mirza Saaib Beg graduated from NALSAR University of Law, Hyderabad in 2013. He has been a teaching assistant and guest lecturer as well as worked under the guidance of several permanent judges of the Jammu and Kashmir High Court and has contributed to legislation and policy development. He currently works with the Legal Affairs Department of SEBI. He also undertakes the Cause Cyclothon in order to raise funds to assist the pursuit of education.
In this interview, he talks to us about-:
The influences and the background that prompted the pursuit of law and the experience of a law school life including internships, moots and learning experiences.
The nature of work at the Legal Affairs Department at SEBI.
The idea, journey and vision for Cause Cyclothon.
What drove you to choosing law as a career? Would you say that your choice of Law as a profession was influenced by any particular incident in your life?
‘Why law?’ seems to be a question that comes up more often in our line of work as opposed to other professions. It is almost as if people are surprised that you being a seemingly healthy and sensible individual would consent to subjecting yourself to this predicament (laughs).Arriving at your true calling in life is an intricate process of personal discovery and there are many factors that lead to my decision but there is one factor that I can narrow down as an important catalyst-Due to the increasing turmoil, I was forced to leave my home, Kashmir, when militancy erupted in the early 1990s because the sheer scale of violence made Kashmir too vulnerable. What followed in the years to come in Kashmir was far too difficult to endure as a people and as a society, and the cicatrices left are not going away anytime soon. In pursuit of a stable education, most of my initial life, I had to live away from my parents and my home, but I am glad that my family always instilled in me a deep sense of ‘belonging to my homeland’. My father, whenever we met, ensured that I learnt the Kashmiri language, by entertaining me with Kashmiri folk tales replete with polite Kashmiri expletives, much to the chagrin of my mother. About a decade later, when the situation back home improved relatively, I resumed studies in Kashmir and spent my formative years there.
It was only then that I could comprehend how decades of political turmoil had caused a mutation in the minds of people. There was an almost irreparable erosion of the legitimacy of rule of law and it felt as if the basic building blocks of a peaceful, modern and conscientious society had been thoroughly ransacked. This experience deeply affected me and over time I came to realise that I would not be satisfied with my professional existence unless it had some relevance to economic and legal development in Kashmir, either by way of financial assistance from my side or by directly getting involved in economic legislation and social policy issues to further the interests of the place. It is in this backdrop that the choice of law as a career was a well-considered decision.
Kashmir was, and continues to be, in need of a catharsis on many fronts and I decided to study law with the objective of eventually using my education and resources to play a role in this inevitable purgative exercise. To my mind, a training in law was most appropriate to prepare me for the challenges that lay ahead –a fear of uncertainties, the hope of order, triumph and a constant process of discovery of ways to mend the economic and socio-legal fabric of Kashmir’s society- all this had left me in deep thrall and I decided that I would have the best of tools to address the challenge. Over the years, having met many Kashmiris living away from home due to the economic and political situation there, I have observed that the desire to do ‘something’ for Kashmir is a feeling that is not alien to any Kashmiri and it is a point of poignant meditation that we are all connected by our pain.
How was life at NALSAR, one of the premier universities of the country? How significant was your alma mater’s role in influencing a change in your personality, if any?
Any answer that I can give about life at Nalsar bespeaks immense pride but I make this declaration to ensure that my casual sarcasm isn’t misunderstood to be criticism. When I came to know that I had made it to Nalsar, I was quite excited and in a moment of naiveté I toured the empty university campus, a full month before classes were scheduled to begin and it all looked so timeless, eclectic and enduring that I felt a majestic fulfilment at the realisation that I would soon be allied with this ennobled place. While all these feelings most definitely stemmed from, and were exaggerated by, the aforementioned naiveté but even till my last day at Nalsar I never had any qualms about being on campus when it was empty. In fact, I often looked forward to it.
Before joining a premier law school, most law students are mistakenly lead to believe that life there is something on the lines of the movie and/or book ‘The Paper Chase’. If you have reposed your faith in the hands of a movie then it serves you right to be crippled with fear at the prospect of joining a place that is fuelled by insanity and cut-throat competition. To be conscious that you are ignorant is a great step to knowledge and a good law school comes fully equipped with good seniors and teachers who will be relentless in their attempts to instil this knowledge in you, through ‘intro-moots’ or ‘positive interaction’ as well as some help from Socrates and his many methods. So, if you enjoy the prospect of spending half a decade mired amidst polemics, paranoia and intense competition, then a top tier law school is the place for you (laughs).
All sarcasm aside, half a decade at Nalsar has had an extraordinary impact on my growth and enrichment and I am glad to be among the inheritors of its traditions. My batch was an intellectual melee of sorts and there has rarely been a moment when I was not positively intoxicated by the kind of depth and insight that this group could display. No matter what yardstick or criteria were employed, this bunch of phenomenally talented people had been jumping hurdles all their lives, impressing all around them, leading, succeeding, achieving and here they were for me to learn from them for half a decade of my life. We all learnt so much from each other, and collectively enjoyed so many common bitter and sweet memories, that sometimes I wonder whether the perceptions of life that we fashioned over that half decade were just a patchwork of thoughts that we all borrowed from one another.
You have an extensive mooting record, both nationally and internationally. How do you feel that our readers can become better mooters?
(Saaib was the winner and best speaker at the Bar Council of India Moot and also emerged as winner and best speaker at R. U. Singh Memorial National Moot in addition to participating with great success in IICLAM, Surana & Surana Trial Advocacy, and the Frankfurt Investment Arbitration moot. He was also the recipient of Bar Council of India Trust Scholarship.)
If you want to be a good mooter, then you must appreciate that mooting is not just about theatrics and paroxysms but it is about identifying an argument that is viable and practicable in the real world, in addition to being sound in law. You also need to have a brilliant level of understanding with your team because the intense pressure and competition will take its toll on all of you. It is ironic that I remember my mooting experience with such fondness despite the utter chaos that always surrounded them. I attribute this fondness to all those wonderful people who were my team mates at different points of time. The Bar Council of India moot has always been a difficult moot to tackle due to the changing format of the problem and the expanse of law that one has to get acquainted with before the problem is even released. My team comprised of Vishwajith Sadanadna and Shrishail Navalgund, who are currently practicing in Delhi and Bangalore respectively. Our team won the moot and I was awarded the best speaker, but both of these achievements couldn’t have been possible without timely contribution and patience on the part of my team. We began our preparation for the moot about 7 months before the problem released, and we researched on various areas of law that we anticipated could be connected to the problem. One area of law that we had left out was arbitration law, since the moot had never been an arbitration moot. However when the problem was released, it was based on a challenge to a foreign arbitral award. So it wasn’t quite an arbitration moot but it concerned arbitration law and we were hard pressed for time as we had to study an entire area of law that we had not dealt with much. Working on this moot was immensely enriching as we ended up studying thoroughly on at least 10 different areas of law and this broad base of knowledge in areas that was seemingly unconnected at first, helped in giving us a better perspective on how to frame our arguments. As best speaker, the scholarship was awarded to me by the Bar Council of India Trust as a monthly stipend for one year. In order to become better mooters, you definitely need an almost indefatigable resilience but also some level of institutional support as a lot of our work is subject to the quality of research materials that are made available to us, especially in the case of international moots. But at the end of the day, students really need to enjoy the whole mooting process and all the chaos that comes with it. I know this is easier said in hindsight.
How would you suggest students to involve themselves in taking more part in research-oriented activities? Share with us your experience as a teaching assistant at Nalsar, guest lecturer at different universities and your work with Lexis Nexis Butterworths Wadhwa.
As a law student, it is imperative and almost indispensable to undertake extracurricular activities that hone your legal skills because there is only so much that you can learn in the classroom. You really need to immerse yourself in the real world and pick current topics to analyse them from a legal perspective, assess the challenges you face in implementing legal and pragmatic solutions and engage in research work beyond your usual college projects- it is a great way of motivating yourself as well as improving your legal skills. I have always felt that for any lasting stability and development in Kashmir there is a need to strengthen economic legislation as well as address the address the political aspirations of the electorate. These two issues are not mutually exclusive. So, in addition to my usual college research work, while interning under various permanent judges of the High Court at Jammu & Kashmir, I would take out time to visit universities and colleges and law schools in Kashmir to talk to students about various socio-political issues of importance to Kashmir and on other areas of law and economic development that can help an emerging and developing market like Kashmir. Some of the lectures and discussions are mentioned herein-
I delivered a guest lecture to the students of 4th year, BA LLB at the University of Kashmir, Department of Law on the topic “Demutualisation, Corporatisation and the Voluntary Exit of Exchanges in India.” The lecture revolved around the issue that nearly every stock exchange in India has voluntarily exited the business and whether it is viable for Kashmir to invest in creating a stock exchange market for itself to cater to investments through the capital market. Since the students were in their penultimate year of law school, it was a healthy exchange of ideas that we could employ to assess this policy issue.
I engaged in a discussion on the topic “Realizing the Summit of the Potential of the ICC: Legal Challenges and Opposition” with the students of 6th Semester BA LLB at the Central University of Kashmir, Department of Law on 9th June 2011. Earlier in 2010, Kashmir saw massive protests over the killing of a teenager named Tufail Ahmed Mattu who, at the time of his death was playing cricket in Gani Memorial Stadium, Srinagar. During the protests, according to official figures around 110 civilians lost their lives and around 1,200 CRPF men and 2,700 police personnel were injured. Over the course of the discussion we wanted to examine whether an international body could play a role in the smouldering cauldron that had been created here, the legal challenges thereof and the opposition to such policy proposals.
When I was interning with the then Advocate General of Jammu & Kashmir, Mr. Ishaaq Qadri, stationed at Jammu during the winter, I visited K.C Law College, Jammu to interact with the students there. Under the guidance of the dean of law, I delivered a guest lecture on the topic “Legal Policy and Legislation for J & K” to the students of 1st year B.A., LL.B. (Hons.).
Under the guidance of Dr. Sheikh Showkat Hussain, I delivered a guest lecture on the topic “Self Determination in International Law” to the students of 3-year course LLB 2nd semester at the Central University of Kashmir, Department of Law. Dr. Sheikh Showkat Hussain is a political analyst and a prominent scholar of human rights and international law. He has authored several books on the Kashmir conflict and I have been fortunate enough to have a guide like him in my student life and beyond. It has also been propitious to have a teacher like Prof. (Dr) Faizan Mustafa, vice Chancellor of Nalsar, who facilitated and put in place the Teaching Assistants programme at Nalsar. He encouraged me to be engaged as a Teaching Assistant for International Relations- Political Science and Law and I’ve had the opportunity of learning a lot from him during my time in law school and continue to learn from him even today.
As regards Lexis Nexis Butterworths Wadhwa, when I was in college, some of my batch mates and I were engaged in editing work for Mr. Anirudh Wadhwa. The experience was quite educational as we were assisting in the editing of books that we were studying ourselves and one of the most prominent tasks we were assigned was to assist in editing Mulla, Contract Law by Sir Dinshah Fardunji Mulla (13th Edition, ISBN number: 978-81-8038-673-2).
Tell us about your experience in Student politics. How has this helped you grow as an individual?
(Saaib was President of NALSAR Student Bar Council from 2012 till 2013 and General Secretary from 2011 till 2012 and received the Vice Chancellor’s Gold Medal for Best Male Graduate with Proven Leadership Qualities.)
Student politics will take you down a road which is a seething cauldron of ever-calculating and self-evaluating moments replete with predictions, anxieties and judgment (laughs). The night just before elections used to be the liveliest and most electrifying night on campus, and in hindsight I can confirm that the world of student politics is deliciously Machiavellian and is not for the faint hearted (insert politically appropriate smiley face here). It is vicious precisely because the stakes are so small and contrary to the assumption of most student leaders, it is not necessarily a route to Downing Street. I’ve read and observed that, to lead is a noble thing, and the greasy pole of student politics will definitely prepare you for challenges of life, and you will emerge not only unbroken but more ‘whole’. But there are certain things I’d like to see changed in law school student politics. There are over 1000 law schools in India and it’s a pity that only a handful of them have a real student government elected by the students and with their own financial budget.
Even in colleges where there is some semblance of a student government, the government is limited in its potential since most of their time is lost in bargaining on basic issues like securing permissions and facilitating events that have limited impact on their immediate vicinity, and much less on law-students in general. There is precious little room for student government to assume its real role as a truly representative student voice and/or think tank of the student perception and pursue policy engagement at a larger level. Most universities abroad have recognised this immense potential and are nurturing groups like Cambridge’s Wilberforce Society which recently worked for the Tunisian National Assembly on their new constitution among other issues. In some National Law schools, we have similar discussion forums and groups but these are not necessarily formed by their respective student governments and this is where I feel student politics is lagging.
If harnessed appropriately, student politics has the potential to produce champions who can fortify society, individually and collectively as their political thought grows with their electorate in the microcosm of society that is their university. It is this fortification of society that is severely lacking in places like Kashmir where ‘low grade rationalism’ dominates the current political approach that elected MLAs and MPs have toward the electorate. This mediocrity in leadership that we face today can only be cured by a proper training in statesmanship, and student government in its appropriate form can be a great stepping stone towards such training.
In its current state, student government in Indian law schools, at best, produces functionaries who tread party lines and not leaders, much less statesmen. There is a perceptible miasma of distrust and this abyss between the common people and the government is loaded to widen. On the brighter side though, even at the grass-root level, Kashmiris are realising that there is no way out but to pull themselves up by their own bootstraps as decades of electing people who are too grievous to govern has not yielded desirable results.
Your yearning to contribute to legal policy issues surrounding grass-root democracy and economic development in Kashmir is inspiring. Please tell us more about this.
(As a law student in his 4th year, while studying Election Law, Mirza Saaib Beg interned under the Minister for Rural Development, Panchayati Raj, Law, Justice & Parliamentary Affairs)
In 1688 the Swiss doctor Johannes Hofer published a tract in which he endeavoured to describe the pain resulting from the yearning and inability to return to one’s home. I am unable to actively work in Kashmir at the moment as I feel that I can serve the economic and legislative interests more effectively when I am better equipped and every day is a step closer to this objective. Kashmir, evokes the fiercest elements of ‘yearning’ in my being but mere nostalgia, devoid of any action, is an emotion which is politically reprehensible and empirically untenable. I feel that it is imperative for educated Kashmiris to exploit their education to push the Kashmiri society towards being emancipatory and progressive, whereas the ‘empty yearning’, devoid of effective action, may rightly be condemned as an irrational obstacle. So I do my part in ensuring that my society is ushered away from an anachronistic state of being by contributing through my education and resources.
After a semester studying Election Law, I was required to intern with an institution to apply my learnings. Instead of pursuing an internship away from home, I decided to employ my education to study and better understand Election Law in Kashmir and I approached the office of the Minister for Rural Development, Panchayati Raj, Law, Justice & Parliamentary Affairs to contribute. It is my understanding that for a representational democracy, free political expression is essential. In Kashmir, political groups and messages that resonate with the popular sentiment are criminalised and therefore elections do not necessarily result in a representation of the popular sentiment. In the past electoral candidates, who had a differing ideology, or who did not meet the approval of influential Indian politicians were summarily rejected by disqualification of their nomination papers and even rigging in elections. In this internship, I prepared a report on Panchayat elections from around the country where I analyzed various issues that could come to the fore with such panchayat elections. The internship report was submitted to Mr. Ali M. Sagar, Minister for Rural Development and Panchayats, Law, Justice and Parliamentary Affairs wherein I assessed a host of economic and policy based issues including:
Measures to diminish powers of State Governments to delay Panchayat elections. Usually elections are delayed on purely political considerations to gain outcomes favourable to New Delhi.
Economic legislation for measures to decrease the State Election Commission’s dependency upon the State Government for logistic support and finances. The State Election Commission needs to be an independent body, which is not controlled by any Indian or Kashmiri political group.
Delimitation of constituencies (Powers of using delimitation to control electoral outcomes must be repealed).
Economic legislation to tackle lack of accountability of Panchayats- There is no time frame to conduct the audit of accounts of a given year and/ or submit the audit report.
Lastly, I made a case for strengthening the State Election Commission (SEC) by making specific provisions in the Constitution of Jammu and Kashmir. In its current form, the State Election Commission is not an independent body and therefore the elections conducted by them are also questionable. In the past the SEC has been abused to reject nominations of candidates who are not approved by influential Indian politicians. For a truly democratic process, all institutions of governance such as courts, police and overseeing commissions must be free from any influence.
Given your background in student politics, how did you feel about your role in contributing to such legislation, policy-making and economic development and what were your perceptions about grass-root democracy in Kashmir?
My experience in student politics has shaped my perception that the Kashmiri electorate has started to dabble its hand at chivvying Kashmiri leaders into developing a sense of perspicacity but unless our leaders overcome the inability to think beyond the next election, we will continuously be faced with a situation where people will get disgusted with traditional politics, something that can be observed elsewhere in India as well as in other countries today. Representatives time and again fall prey to compartmentalizing their electorate into watertight compartments relegated to be pacified by the appropriate sound-bytes. Far from being emblematic, there is much to be desired for grass-root democracy, in Kashmir. However, I have courage over my conviction that with the appropriate training, the growth of young, educated and conscientious leaders will see us in good stead to face the challenges of political instability and economic development. Addressing the issues in Kashmir requires more than mere passion for Kashmir because the issues are so complex that effective solutions require extraordinary prescience, profound thought and perception as well. Kashmir is undergoing an insurrection of the mind as we face a growing wave of violence. As educated, conscientious people it is imperative to ensure that we choose leaders who possess the enduring insight to steer us away from these waves that are fed with politically immature and often violent rhetoric. Further, as educated and conscientious people we also have to understand that war and conflict is not something that only governments inflict upon one another but it is also implicit in the seemingly innocuous decisions we take daily at an individual level which lead to macro-differences between communities. Kashmir cannot afford to be a fractured society and every effort must be made, at an individual as well state level, to ensure that our leaders are fully aware of the subtleties and complexities of the interplay of religious factors, geopolitics, and the corrupting influence of desire for power that is the overarching theme of Kashmir’s long history of conflict. During the time of the panchayat elections, every news channel in India categorised them as ‘historic’-The panchayati raj elections in Kashmir can quite possibly be termed as ‘historic’ but unless we as educated and conscientious people take social and political action to address the complexities mentioned herein, the sound-bytes will continue ad-nauseam without any effective results. In the opening lines to “The Eighteenth Brumaire,” Marx famously amends Hegel’s statement that historical events happen twice, by adding that they occur first as tragedy, then as farce. I feel these lines are quite apt for Kashmir. Unless educated and determined people act immediately, the repetitive dialogue surrounding Kashmir will be nothing short of farcical and the deadlock on diplomacy, political and economic development will be stuck on a never-ending loop which is detrimental most of all to the state-subject.
As a law student you made some documentaries on issues that interested you. Please tell us about this work. Was it a part of an internship?
No, this was not a part of any internship. I wanted to explore certain themes through a medium that was convenient for anyone interested in the work. The documentaries were made in my second year of law school with an intention to understand what the electorate in remote areas of Kashmir felt about the social and economic laws that they are governed by. The research topics covered issues like justice and juveniles, poverty and deprivation, political turmoil and children, Islamic finance etc. Making these documentaries in pursuit of a systematic ethnography served as an alternate educational platform for me. My education at Nalsar fuelled my rationality when I approached these sensitive topics. The experience taught me that there are no simplistic solutions to problems of legislation in Kashmir. At first, the complexity of legislative problems in Kashmir frustrated me because I was unable to dismantle the legal problems with my crude screwdriver and I lacked the expertise and/ or resources to wield better tools. I figured that I needed a more refined toolbox and I went back to law school with new-found resolve to use my subsequent education to tackle the complexities of social and economic legislation. I would come to Kashmir during every break to work with various academicians, politicians and within the legal fraternity to hone my understanding of these issues.
What other kind of internships did you undertake?
Among other miscellaneous internships, I also interned with law firms like Amarchand, Luthra, AZB, and also with Jammu & Kashmir Bank Financial Services Ltd., ICICI Bank, Ministry of Social Justice and Empowerment and under a few Senior Advocates, including the Advocate General of Jammu & Kashmir.
How did you decide to seek employment with SEBI? How did your appointment at SEBI take place? Please share with us an experience from your initial days.
Over the course of my education I arrived at the conclusion that many issues in Kashmir could be resolved through economic legislations as well as addressing the political aspirations of the electorate. I feel that these two are not mutually exclusive and that Kashmir is being lead into an economically regressive tract leading to a domino effect on many other frontiers. I decided to work with SEBI as this was the only institution where I could get quasi- legislative, quasi- judicial as well as quasi- executive experience which I felt was essential for my objective of working on economic legislation and contributing to development. At that time I had also heard that SEBI was considering setting up an office in Kashmir and I felt that this would be a great opportunity to contribute to and observe economic legislation as well as gain quasi-judicial experience. The process of appointment was based on an initial shortlisting and subsequent interview process. SEBI shortlisted the ten best ranked CVs from the applicants and conducted an exhaustive interview which covered recent developments in the capital market in addition to various concepts of securities law, eventually selecting two candidates from all the applicants. After joining SEBI, I observed that while regulating and developing the capital market and protecting the economic interest of investors are the primary responsibilities, the organisation is quite proud of its social consciousness as well. Soon after the devastating flood in Kashmir last year, I approached the Chief General Manager of the HR department and evinced my desire to get involved in the relief effort. Without any hesitation, he mobilised the process and within a few days, in a very touching gesture, Rs. 9.10 Lakh were contributed by all employees from their monthly salaries and transferred for the relief effort. At that moment it felt that I had taken a small step closer to my personal objective of being in a position to contribute towards the betterment of Kashmir, and it was a truly wonderful feeling. I look forward with eagerness to the time when I can take bigger steps on this path.
What are your primary responsibilities in SEBI’s Legal Affairs Department? What all does the work profile in SEBI’s Legal Affairs Department consist of?
I am employed with the Legal Affairs Department at SEBI which is responsible for providing legal counsel to the SEBI Board and to its other departments, and to handle non-enforcement litigation. The department has a division of policy and divisions of regulatory assistance. The work of the Legal Affairs department includes formulating SEBI’s legislative initiatives, various categories of SEBI pronouncements (i.e., regulations, guidelines, circulars, instructions, etc.), the hierarchy of their force and effect, the procedure for their promulgation, amendment or repeal, reviewing and commenting upon proposed regulations that would affect the securities industry, SEBI’s authority or operation. The division is engaged in providing legal advice to the Market Regulation Department (MRD), Corporation Finance Department (CFD), Investment Management Department (IMD) among others. MRD is responsible for supervising the functioning and operations of securities exchanges, their subsidiaries, and market institutions such as clearing and settlement organizations and Depositories. CFD deals with matters relating to (i) Issuance and listing of securities, including initial and continuous listing requirements (ii) corporate governance and accounting/auditing standards (iii) corporate restructuring through Takeovers / buy backs (iv) Delisting etc. IMD is responsible for registering and regulating mutual funds, venture capital funds, foreign venture capital investors, collective investment schemes, including plantation schemes, foreign institutional investors, portfolio managers and custodians. So the portfolio is quite expansive and the experience gained thereof is holistic in terms of exposure to litigation in SAT, the Bombay High Court and the Supreme Court of India, policy-making and drafting of the regulations and it is a great vantage point to learn about the effect of legal policy on the capital markets.
You cycle over 50km-60km every day in Mumbai. How did you take to cycling? Was there anyone or any event that inspired or motivated you to take up this as a daily activity?
I took to cycling because it represented a truly emancipating activity which was immersed in a real world environment. In my fourth year at Nalsar, I was elected as General Secretary of the Student Union at Nalsar. At that time, I used to cycle around NALSAR with some of my batch mates and we had toyed with the idea of a cycle trip to all national law schools as a symbolic gesture to ‘connect’ the student governments at each place to deliberate over an issue of national and legal importance concerning Kashmir. Even when I used to intern in Bombay with law firms, as a student, I would lament the deplorable condition of traffic and I even considered the idea of cycling to work. However, due to various reasons, these plans could not mature at that time.
I thoroughly enjoyed cycling and I was looking for a way to merge my desire to make a perceptible difference in Kashmir with my love for cycling. When I moved to Mumbai to pursue my employment with SEBI, I read about two investment bankers and a doctor who had raised over Rs 13 lakh for St. Jude India Childcare Centre, an NGO that aids parents of children with cancer by cycling 250km from Mumbai to Pune and back. I decided to train myself to be in a position to cycle at least 1000km and raise enough funds to provide 20- 30 orphaned, meritorious students, in Kashmir, with a basic education. I started cycling 10km, once a week, and gradually I increased my duration and distance to about 50 km every day. During the weekends, I meet with interested people from all over the city and cycle between 100-300 km to Lonavala, Nashik, Pune, Bharuch, Alibaug etc. I started meeting people with diverse backgrounds- musicians, actors, stand-up comedians, artists and curators in addition to people from conventional professions. On the long cycling trips, my mind is free from distraction of my smartphone and the engrossing condiments that accompany it. I have realized that our lives are so heavily “comoditised” that we forget the difference between making a living and having a life and we ignore the nourishment that such idleness can provide to our thought process. For me, this experience has definitely been enriching from a psychological and even sociological perspective. Needless to say, physiologically I feel younger today than I felt when I moved to the city and that is not something you often hear from people who work a full time job in the legal profession (laughs).
How does it feel to cycle to work daily? What is the experience like? Is it difficult for someone to emulate this and promote cycling in India?
I figured that the only way I could make time for my training was if I incorporated it as a part of my daily routine. So I decided to cycle to work and effectively pursue my training while I commute to work. My office, SEBI, has an in-house magazine called ‘The Insider’ and when I started cycling to work, they asked me to share my experience with them. I told them that contrary to popular perception, it is actually surprising that in Mumbai very few people cycle for leisure and even lesser people cycle to work. I say this because Mumbai is a relatively flat, linear city and the weather is forgiving for 8 months a year, unlike most cycle-friendly cities of the world- London is too wet, Copenhagen is too cold and Amsterdam has terrible headwinds that make cycling quite onerous.
In 2014, these cities were rated as some of the best in the world for cycling according to “Copenhagenize Index” which is a list of the world’s most bike-friendly cities. Not only is cycling the best solution to Mumbai’s woeful traffic, but making the roads cycle friendly is not even a heavy burden on the state’s budget. For a fraction of the Rs. 160 crore (£160m/ 16 billion rupees) cost of the eight-lane Bandra-Worli Sea Link toll bridge, the state government could have transformed cycling and public transport in the city. To comprehend how little we need to become a cycle-friendly city, contrast this Rs. 160 crore with the fact that in UK average annual government expenditure on cycling in the UK was £1 per person (Rs. 100) for the entire country. Incidentally £1 is considered to be quite low by most European standards where the annual government expenditure on cycling is about €25 per person (Rs. 1800). Studies show that every kilometer cycled in Denmark earns the country €0.23 (Rs. 17). For me cycling never started off as a way to burn calories or save petrol- it simply was a “fast form of pedestrianism,” and the most exciting way to get around. Every resident of Mumbai knows what it feels like when you have to drive your car in stop-and-go traffic to get to work every morning. Every resident of Mumbai dreads the commute to work and back home. Imagine if your vehicle didn’t have to stop-and-go intermittently like that. Imagine making your commute an exciting highlight of your day. And imagine starting every day feeling perfect, alive and look forward to your commute to office. That is what cycling to work feels like. Having said that, it is a relief to have a shower and gym facility in office which makes things very convenient, as I carry my formal clothes in a backpack to change into after cycling, without which it would have become an onerous activity.
Indian cities and interested cyclists don’t need to reinvent the wheel to promote cycling in the metro-cities, they just need to copy what the cities that did make the Copenhagenize top 20 are doing such as encouraging employers to install a shower facility and cycle parking in office, sensitizing car drivers towards cyclists and sharing the road and lowering taxes on import of cycles. Once cycling is presented as a convenient way to get around, which not only profits by way of financial saving but also health benefits, the masses will take to the cycle. Cycling is most definitely a part of the future and the sooner our governments realize that, the better it will be for all of us.
Tell us about the Charity Ride Cause Cyclothon and your cycle ride to Ahmedabad from Mumbai. How did this idea strike you?
After the floods in Kashmir in 2014, everyone was outraged by the sheer unpreparedness of the government to meet the challenge of a calamity that was not unforeseeable, and had in fact been widely speculated about. While collective outrage is easy to find, it is not easy to channelize that outrage into proactive and positive action as this takes time, effort, money and other resources. Luckily, I’ve found some individuals who are willing to give most, if not all, of these requirements. Undertaking this journey gives me the satisfaction of having tried to make a perceptible and positive difference to a severely dilapidated place that I call home. I plan to connect law schools on my journey and show interested people how they can contribute to making a difference to the lives of orphaned children, without necessarily making a financial contribution.
Cause Cyclothon is an event aimed at raising funds to assist the pursuit of education. We cycle long distances of 1000-3000km to raise funds and help anyone financially to pursue their education. We completed the FIRST PHASE last month where we cycled a total of 1268 km from Mumbai to Ahmedabad and back in 5 days visiting all prominent law schools en route and we raised Rs. 10 Lakh for an orphanage in Kashmir, Rahat Manzil which operates under the aegis of Jammu & Kashmir Yateem Khana. I was accompanied by two amazing cyclists and wonderful human beings- Pranaya Mohanty and Sumit Patil and we were cheered on and supported by over three hundred supporters, well-wishers and cyclists en-route in Surat, Vadodra, Bharuch, Ahmedabad and Anand. Pranayaregularly participates in endurance events like Brevets Randonneurs Mondiaux (BRM) events to cycle long distance rides of 300km, 400km and even 600km. He was the fastest Indian cyclist to complete 1200km Paris- Brest- Paris (PBP) cycling event this year (under 75 hours). Sumit has already completed the 601km Ultra Marathon Cycling Association world championship event in 30 hours and other events like BRMs, Desert 500 and Ultra BOB. He is currently training for the Race Across America. Both will be with me for our second ride also.
Cause Cyclothon is brought to fruition because of the encouragement and financial support given to us by the Rotary Club of Bombay Worli. They have been with us throughout the event from its inception to the execution. Last year they had run a campaign to support persons in need of artificial limbs and they continue to shoulder their civic and social responsibilities towards those less fortunate. We also have been supported by Killer Jeans and Ultra Tech Cement. All the money raised by our sponsors was sent directly to the orphanage. Rs. 6 Lakh were sent when we completed 600km of the first ride to correspond to Rs. 1000 for every km that we cycled. The event is also supported by “Team Agni”, and “To Kashmir” in addition to other supporters as mentioned on our webpage. Team Cause Cyclothon also engaged in pre-event campaigns for our ride- one month before we were scheduled to depart on our 1100km cycling journey, we had sponsored the “Smart Commute- Ride To Work” initiative which saw 450 cyclists in Mumbai converge at Sofitel hotel in BKC riding to office on their cycles. The event was presided over by the Maharashtra state minister for Environment, Mr. Ramdas Kadam.
If anyone is interested in helping the orphanage in Kashmir, or support us for the second ride, kindly get in touch with me over FB, gmail or phone so that I can guide you on what the orphanage and students need apart from financial support. Their account details are in the photo below:
Can you give us the highlights of your first ride and the plan for the second and third?
The plan was to cycle from NCPA, Nariman Point to Ahmedabad and back in 5 days (approx. 1200 km) and stop at every law university on the way to get students involved in the campaign. The idea was to raise at least Rs. 10 lakh in aid of educational initiatives at Srinagar’s largest orphanage, Rahat Manzil, which suffered over Rs. 40 lakh in damages during the flood in Kashmir last year.
You can see this page for snippets our first ride-
You can view this video made by one of our sponsors which has clips of the orphanage trustees, children along with their appeal for the first ride that has now been successfully concluded-
We stopped at every prominent law school on the route and did not solicit any financial contribution from the students we met but we only wanted to put forth the ground realities of what these children face, talk to them about our aims, objectives, motivations and get the students’ involvement in voluntary skype classes of 30 minutes per week or to assist in facilitation of sharing of reading material for the children. The response has been overwhelming and we are now planning the second phase to further our literacy campaign.
These were the universities and law colleges we passed by and stopped at for student interaction during RIDE No. 1-
GLC Mumbai
VT Chowksi Law College, Surat
Sidharth Law College, Surat
Law College, Bharuch
Baroda School of Legal Studies, Faculty of Law, Maharaja Sayajirao University of Baroda, Vadodara
Shree P.M.Patel College of Law & Human Rights, Anand
Nirma University, AhmedabadGujarat National Law University, Gandhinagar, Ahmedabad
GNLU, Gandhinagar, Ahmedabad
ABOUT THE SECOND RIDE:
The SECOND ride is nearly 3000km+ ride, over 12-14 days, from Mumbai to Kochi via Symbiosis and/or ILS- Pune, NALSAR- Telangana, NLSIU- Bengaluru, TNNLS- Tiruchirappalli and NUALS- Kochi. The list of universities is not exhaustive and we are still planning the final intended beneficiaries as we need to coordinate for time and semester schedules. We look forward to working with the students of each institution on this ride. (Tentatively January, 2016). We are also looking to expand the base beyond just law students and are planning to include IITs and IIMs en-route. The plan is to raise Rs. 30 lakh to sponsor the education of needful students in the universities that we stop at.
How will the students be shortlisted from each law school? How many students per college will you cover?
We intend to support the educational costs of at least 6-12 students per law school that we stop at but this is subject to the total that we are able to raise during the second ride. We intend to raise a total of Rs. 20-30 Lakh for this purpose. We are currently in the process of contacting vice chancellors, registrars, student-body presidents and concerned faculty at each prospective stopping point. We want the universities to give us a shortlist of names that require funding and an overview of their academic/ extracurricular performance. There is no particular standard that they must meet but we hope to fund the education of such students who have proven potential to better the environments that they came from and in turn help others who are faced with similar financial and social predicaments. The money raised will be given directly to the universities by our sponsors and will be used to cover the fees of the selected student’s academic year. Coming from Kashmir myself, I understand that when one is faced with any instability in the pursuit of education, it is very challenging for a student and it is imperative for us to remove such impediments to secure their future. We are grateful that our supporters and sponsors share our belief and are all ready to support us during the second ride as well.
Which major cities do you plan to cover? Are there any criteria for joining the cause, for example physical fitness, health conditions, et al?
The plan of Team Cause Cyclothon is to eventually cover every city which houses a major national university and support the literacy mission of Rotary Club of Bombay Worli and our supporters. We intend to provide financial support to anyone who needs the same and our supporters share this determination. The SECOND ride is nearly 3000km+ ride, over 12-14 days, from Mumbai to Kochi via Symbiosis and/or ILS- Pune, NALSAR- Telangana, NLSIU- Bengaluru, TMNLS- Tiruchirappalli and NUALS- Kochi. There is no hard and fast criteria to join us. For those who want to cycle a long distance (say above 300km) with us, it would be appreciated if they are trained long distance cyclists as such distances take a significant toll on the body and it is not recommended for a novice cyclist to undertake such a long ride without appropriate training. Our supporters can also join us for smaller distances (anything from 10km to 200km) as it would serve as a real boost and motivation for us during the ride. During our first 1100km Mumbai-Ahmedabad-Mumbai ride, we were joined by nearly 300 cyclists at various points who cycled 10km to 100km with us and cheered us on at Mumbai, Vapi, Bharuch, Anand, Ahmedabad, Surat and Vadodra. You may join the cause and support in any form and if you are not in apposition to contribute financially or not fit enough to cycle, then you can be a part of the cause just by sharing it on social media. That way, it might reach someone else who can assist us in making a perceptible difference to someone’s life.
Your event has generated a lot of attention on social media. A lot of stars and celebrities are also promoting your event on social media. How did you connect with them and the other people involved in the event?
The real celebrities are the people who supported us on social media and the cyclists who travelled 30-50km at 3am on the day of our journey, to ride with us and support us. Navi Mumbai cyclists, Mastermind Cycles, Bandra Cyclists Club, Mulund riders, Powai Pedals, Evo Bikes, RPM cycles, Xycolaire cyclists, CYC’d cyclists, Mumbai Cycling Enthusiasts, VeloCrush, Cyclop, Palm Beach Riders,Juhu and Lokhandwala Cyclists, Borivali Cyclists, BikeMe, and all the individual cyclists who supported us, rode for many kilometres, carrying food and refreshments for us- we feel they are our real superstars! Their gesture has touched us deeply and we are most thankful to them for their time and motivation. We have been very lucky in this regard and my fellow cyclist friends in Mumbai, Ahmedabad and Anand have been a source of great support. Their outpouring of emotional support on social media has made the event a success and we got in touch with various people to support us in any manner possible and Ira Dubey, Cyrus Brocha, Cyrus Sahukar and Kunal Vijaykar shot promotional videos with us to support the cause as these people have a large social media following. We are continuing with the social media campaign and hope to get more people involved who have a wider outreach to help us with creating awareness for the event. Of course, we are fortunate to have the financial and moral support provided by- Killer Jeans, Ultra Tech Cement, Rotary Club of Bombay Worli, Rotarians- Mr. Sandeep Shah, Partner N.A. Shah Associates, Mr. Ashish Meghani Managing Director Wrap Tech Machines, Mr. Kiran Vora, Mr.Quresh Karachiwala, Mr. Pankaj Tanna, Ms. Kavita Godbole and Mr. Jayanth Nairi- their support has set us free from the initial encumbrances so that we can pursue the promotion of the cause with the confidence that that they are with us, throughout the event and after, to help wherever we need their support. Our organising team had some great help from three young students- Armaan Bhatia student of St. Xavier’s, Siddhant Navalakha student of Jai Hind college and Varun Tanna from HR college whose timely assistance went a long way in making the first 1100km ride a success. I have no doubt that their efforts will ensure that the second ride is a success as well.
Do you intend for this to be a yearly event? Would you consider replicating this Cause Cyclothon for other regions in India?
As of now, we intend to undertake three rides in total to different parts of India and support educational initiatives en-route at various institutions. We have completed the first ride across the Western region and now preparing for our second ride which will cover central and Southern India. We have not finalised a destination or route for the final ride yet, but it would be nice to cover all the remaining portions in this vast and diverse country. If we continue to enjoy the support of our friends, families, fellow cyclists and the persons mentioned above who are generously sponsoring us, I see no difficulty in making this a yearly endeavour, or even multiple times a year.We plan to complete the third cycle ride by August 2016, possibly around August 14 and 15, the independence days of Pakistan and India respectively. If we are successful, I will dedicate the ride to independence in the subcontinent- independence from oppression, independence from tyranny and any turmoil, created by the hands of men, that deprives children from the ability to change their lives for the better. If not a financial contribution the least I hope to evoke from everyone is an introspective thought on how far the subcontinent has come in uplifting the weakest amongst us. Maybe that introspection will prompt them in playing a role, howsoever small, in making a perceptible and productive difference to someone’s life. I hope I’ll succeed in this endeavour.
What is the advice you would like to give our readers?
There is a difference in being alone and being lonely. In law school, the boundaries between the two are often blurred but overcoming this central anxiety and paradox of life will train you to focus on identifying purpose and meaning in life. It will help you find that one thing in your life that is more important than you are, and then dedicate your life to it.
As lawyers, we live in a culture of immediacy, where even our understating of the abstract is too ‘rationalised’, but when you’re pursuing something worthwhile, expect it to take some time and don’t get perturbed by the transitory stillness of life, rather cherish it for when the time comes for you to pursue your true goal, such still moments may be hard to come by. So run, go for aimless walks, cycle to nowhere in particular and don’t fear boredom. There is an evolutionary and creative purpose behind the aimless wandering and unconscious processing of thought. Give in to it every once in a while. Give yourself some “me-time”.
And lastly, push yourself to participate in the creativity that an education in law has to offer, refuse to isolate yourself and learn to appreciate the bitter-sweet path of tenacity even if your counter-cultural bravery and constructive dissent are underrated.
Amit Aggarwal is a co-founder of Effectual Knowledge Services which offers IPR related solutions. EKS provide services in patent search, patent drafting and other allied areas. Having graduated with B.Tech from Kurukshetra University in 2002 and later completed his LL.B from Chaudhary Charan Singh University he joined Reliance Industries Limited as an Assistant Manager. Prior to founding EKS in 2010, he worked with leading organizations such as CPA Global and Evalueserve.
In this interview he talks about:
Studying law post his bachelor’s in engineering from Kurukshetra University
His work experience at CPA Global and Evalueserve
Responsibilities at Effectual Knowledge Services
How would you introduce yourself? Could you please share a little bit of what motivated you to pursue law as a career?
I graduated from Kurukshetra University and was privileged to be part of the academic institution. I was given an opportunity to represent the college in numerous competitions organized by the institution and received many awards. Apart from this, I also pursued LL.B from Chaudhary Charan Singh University which helped me to gain deep insights about the IP industry. Apart from the theoretical knowledge, the study of law had helped me to understand practical aspects of the legal industry. This further motivated me to embrace the challenging and exciting career in the field of Intellectual Property. I was an active participant in all the social and community engagements that took place at the university. Besides this, I consider the quest for learning more about IPR and develop skills as a journey that is rewarding and is still on.
How would you describe your typical day?
I spend most of the time interacting with clients both domestic as well as international and assist them to develop IP strategy in order to achieve business goals. Also, a typical day involves prioritizing work and allocating the same to the colleagues. I also interact with employees to impart IP knowledge, address their concerns and conduct training sessions. I intend to make the team self-reliant so that they can handle complex patent assignments, deliver superior quality work and build long term relations with clients. Majority of the day is consumed by taking informed decisions relating to internal management, business development, assisting technology firms and advising startups. I try and finish the work in time to be home and unwind with my family.
What diverted you to take this entrepreneurial plunge and start Effectual Knowledge Services in 2010? What prompted this move?
I was fortunate enough to gain insights about the IP space while working with esteemed organizations such as CPA global and Evalueserve. In the beginning of my entrepreneurial plunge, I was aware of the fact that entrepreneurship involves bigger risk and rewards. The idea of the firm stemmed from the possibilities and making fundamental change with respect to quality work, timelines, and other deliverables to the client that urged me to undertake my entrepreneurial journey. In addition to this, there is immense potential in the IP space that fuelled me to pursue my dreams and make a mark in the field of IP. The ability to identify, evaluate, and understand business has helped me to run the firm successfully. I also thank my peers and colleagues who shared the same passion and enthusiasm and I am obliged to them for being a part of Effectual’s journey.
What has been your experience in working with international clients since 2010?
The initial days of my entrepreneurial journey were demanding. They involved immense hard work, commitment and dedication to succeed and take the organization to newer heights. Till now, I had worked with thousands of international clients and helped them manage their IP portfolio and achieve business objectives. Since we are known for our quality of work and our search findings, a majority of the revenues is generated through repeat business from these clients.
What prompted you to start the IPSS division in 2014? Tell us a bit more about it.
The IPSS division was started with an objective to help clients in providing services such as patent proofreading, docketing, translation services, and patent illustrations and drawings. There was need to be fulfilled as most of the clients wanted to outsource their paralegal services apart from the regular work like prior art searches infringement searches, patent analysis, etc. The IPSS division is growing at an exponential rate due our superior quality work performed at a quick turnaround time.
What were the biggest hurdles and challenges in the first few months? How did you deal with them?
Every business has its own set of challenges to face with. These challenges include hiring the right people to build a brand. As there is intense competition in the IP space, every firm is looks to acquire clients and maximize its revenues. We had to overcome these challenges by providing superior trainings and mentoring employees to handle complex assignments at a quick turnaround time. Apart from this, we have developed a well structured HR program in order to retain best performing employees and rewarding them for their work. Through our quality work, we bagged the Red Hiring Top 100 Asia Award 2014 and Deloitte Tech Fast 50 in 2014and 2015.
While hiring for your company, what skills do you look for in a prospective employee?
In today’s fast-paced world, every employee should have an ideal mix of skills and competencies to achieve the desired results. In addition to this, leadership and strategic decision making that an employee should be equipped with. Following are the traits that an employee should have:
Team Player
Multi-tasking
Excellent Communication Skills
Organizational Awareness
Problem Solver
Ability to Prioritize
Effective Decision Maker
Learning Ability
Proactive
What have been your successes?
Our success can be defined in terms of the revenue and global expansion. We have been growing at a rapid pace and expanding our team in the countries such as the US, Germany and the UK. Over the years, the business development team has gained client confidence and delivered quality services to clients.
Is there any other tip you would like to give to our budding entrepreneurs?
As mentioned in the earlier question, perseverance is the key to success in entrepreneurship. As India is not very startup friendly and entrepreneurs have to face many hurdles, it is critical for the entrepreneur to believe in his idea and results will follow.
What kind of work and responsibilities does a Manager at CPA Global deal with?
The role and responsibility at CPA global involve providing assistance to US attorneys and Fortune 500 companies in patent prosecution and infringement analysis. I also helped leading technology companies in conducting patentability searches, patent to product mapping, landscape analysis, directed prosecution, claim mapping, prosecution history review and technical analysis of cited prior art and proposing amendments for office action responses. Apart from this, I have worked on number of intellectual property projects related to varied domains such as computer science, telecommunication and information technology, etc. The experience was quite enriching and gave me an opportunity to work on various projects involving prior art search, patent search, etc.
What do you cherish most about the experience you’ve had over the past two years?
The experience at CPA global helped me to gained insights about the intellectual property. During my tenure at CPA, I was awarded every quarter for my dedication and hard work. I have also consistently participated in various competition organized by the company on month-on-month basis.
Elaborate on experience in working with EVS?
I got an opportunity to be a part of the EVS and was handling clients across the globe. The work profile of EVS was interesting and gave me ample opportunities to work on array of projects. Majority of the work included conducting prior art search, invalidation search, and landscape analysis.
You’re the Co-Founder and Director of Effectual Services. Please tell us about Effectual Services. What inspired you to embark on this entrepreneurial journey?
Since the beginning of my professional career, I wanted to become an entrepreneur and make a mark in the field of intellectual property (IP). Back in 2010, we founded Effectual Services – an idea that cropped up during my stint at EVS. I was very intrigued by the idea that there was immense potential in the IP space and building this company will be game changer in my life. During the first year, we realize that providing end-to-end solutions will be a differentiating factor and will lead to success of the company. That realization had led to the fifth year in 2015. Effectual got an amazing start as we were able to acquire international clients and solved complex assignments related to prior art search and invalidation searches. Every year, from 2010 to now, we have had the privilege of working with Fortune 500 companies and law firms.
Effectual Services is based in Noida and is one of leading IP advisor to Fortune 500 companies, law firms, venture capitalists, and PE firms. Out team comprise of multi-disciplinary experts with rich experience in handling complex patent assignments in various domains such as Alternative Energy, Automotive and Aerospace, Biomedical, Biotechnology and Pharmaceuticals, Chemical and Materials, Information Technology, Electrical and Computer, Life Sciences, Telecommunications, etc. We also provide Intellectual Property Support Services (IPSS) such as proofreading, docketing, information disclosure statement, and patent term adjustment (PTA).
What are your future plans?
Being an ambitious person, I always wanted to make it big in my professional career with a perfectionist attitude, which I feel I am endowed with. At the moment, the company is growing at an exponential rate. We are planning to expand in different geographies like the US, the UK, etc.
Lastly, what would be your parting message for our readers?
I believe that success can only be achieved through hard work and diligent effort. Reinvent yourself to stay relevant in the dynamic business environment. Successful people are aware that the knowledge is the backbone of success so they keep on learning new things and explore different avenues in life.
GR Srikkanth studied law from Osmania University and graduated in 1996, after pursued LL.M. at the same place in 1998. Currently the Vice President – Legal at RP-Sanjiv Goenka Group, Srikkanth is a rank holder in Labour Laws and IP Laws. His prior assignments include a near-decade experience at HUDCO (Govt. of India) and Govt. of AP.
In this interview, he tells us about:
His decision to do two diplomas in Intellectual Property Laws
His experience as a Legal Manager at Housing Urban Development (HUDCO)
His advice on drafting infrastructure agreements
His achievements and landmark moments at RP-Sanjiv Goenka Group
Did you have lawyers in your family?
I have done my schooling and college education in Hyderabad. There are no lawyers in my family, I was very much interested in joining politics and LLB was a natural choice.
How did you choose to do Cost Accountancy?
(Srikkanth initially started as a commerce graduate with cost accountant qualification)
Law was my first choice, but I also enrolled in cost accountancy to gain some accounting knowledge.
How instrumental was Osmania in shaping up your legal career?
(Srikkanth studied law from Osmania University and scored 1st division in the year 1996. Thereafter, he did his LL.M. from Osmania in the year 1998 and ranked 9th in the entire university)
Osmania University’s eminence is unparalleled to any other institution in the country and it is the epicentre to many movements. It taught me a practical approach to looking at things. OU’s environment has always instilled confidence in all its students.
Tell us about your courses. Share any incident from that time.
(Srikkanth has done two courses i.e. Diploma in Intellectual Property from WIPO (UN) 2006 and PG Diploma in Intellectual Property Laws – IIT Kharagpur.)
When IIT KGP started Law School and commenced PGDIPL, I took some break from work and enrolled there. Being in first batch there, we faced some short term issues similar to any new venture. But overall, the experience was enriching. A memorable incident was drafting an invention disclosure for a chemical product. Being a commerce graduate, it took much more effort on my part to complete the project.
Please tell our readers about what your work experience was like at HUDCO. What did an average day of work look like?
(Right after graduation, Srikkanth worked as Manager of Law in Housing Urban Development (HUDCO) (a Government of India enterprise) for nearly 9 ½ years)
I appeared for HUDCO’s exam and got through and this is how I started my career with HUDCO. Primarily, the job involved appraisal of various projects in real estate, and various infrastructures like utility, social, urban infrastructure project. HUDCO is a leading player in techno financing; it makes feasible studies about the project and finance. I was lucky that major projects commenced in my jurisdiction I got to work in many places across India which helped me learn various local revenue laws and regulations. Major contribution was drafting of letter of comfort in lieu of State Government guarantee, when there were restrictions in issuing State Government Guarantee due to over borrowings of the State Government. This instrument was even vetted by RBI as a valid document for financing and it’s a first of its kind.
Share with us the major points one should concentrate on, while drafting agreements on infrastructure projects?
While drafting infrastructure projects, one needs to contemplate all kinds of risks that may be associated with the project and take a detailed brief from other functionaries like civil, environmental, structural engineering and finance team. List out all the possibilities and make a provision regarding them in the agreement. Similarly, list out all the applicable laws and appraise the provisions with reference to the project whether they have any impact on the same. Also, address the issues fit-out period, concessions, compliances under labour and corporate laws, insurances and assignments etc. If the lawyer/in house counsel is involved in drafting terms and conditions from the tendering or RFP, then he/she will be in a better position to draft instead of merely vetting the agreements.
How fulfilling were the last 10 years both on the professional and personal fronts? How challenging and grueling were the difficulties and how did you overcome them?
(After HUDCO Srikkanth joined RP Sanjiv Goenka Group as Chief Manager Legal and has now been promoted as Vice President Legal.)
Retail Industry is most challenging and complex in terms of legal and regulatory issues. Every product whether, food or non-food, is covered under some law or regulation, a Hypermarket where 30,000 products are sold attracts dozens of legal and regulatory issues. For example, retailers need licenses even to sell products like mosquito repellents, cosmetics, etc. Every day is different and there is a need to address issues instantly. Over a decade, I have been able to learn many things.
Would you kindly share your accomplishments and job specifications at RPSG Group?
I have been awarded Chairman’s TOP GEAR award in 2008 for best performance in resolving legal issues, I have also been nominated for the Best In-House Counsel for Asia Pacific Award by International Law Office for the year 2012 – 2013. I have managed these laurels with the immense support I get from my wife and son.
Please tell us a bit about your award by Retail Association of India.
Retail Association of India (RAI) is an apex body which represents modern retailers and works towards growth for modern retail in India. www.rai.net.in. RAI has various committees representing the functions of Retail. Advocacy Committee spearheads the legal and regulatory issues of Retail Industry. Over the years advocacy committee has successfully liaised with various State Governments and Central Government to address legal and regulatory issues.
I being a member of advocacy committee have contributed towards facilitating various changes in the field of labour laws, essential commodities laws, insecticide Act, Food Safety and Standard regulations etc., in recognition of these services RAI felicitated me with the award for excellence in Legal and Regulatory services in Retail Trade in India.
Kindly share your experience as a Member of the Taskforce on Food and Regulatory Issues and Advocacy Committee of Retail Association of India (RAI).
Our advocacy committee at RAI is very active and we coordinate with various State Governments and the Central Government on legal issues, especially with reference to retail sector. We have made noteworthy contributions in this regard, for example, exemption from weekly closure, keeping of records in electronic form, changes in food laws and legal metrology. The primary objective of the committee is to address the issues of the industry and facilitate the members.
Tell our readers what needed to be done to ensure fair trade practices and what suitable measures are needed to promote the growth of infrastructure and retail sector.
Major challenges for both the industries are approvals and clearances from various authorities due to which the projects over run and the costs increase. There needs to be a time bound clearance. It will be better to have deemed provisions which are designed such that if there is a failure to accept or reject the projects within a certain period of time, then they are deemed to be approved.
What are your plans for the future? What advice would you give to those law students wishing to pursue a career in infrastructure and retail sector?
I advise the young lawyers and students who wish to pursue these sectors to understand the entire process of the businesses and spend considerable time on the project viz., physically visiting the generation station, road project, airport and taking notes and understanding the processes and make the list which can impact the business and how to address the same in the communications/agreements. Keep reviewing various literatures pertaining to the domain in which you are interested.
Would you like to see yourself in the the role of a lawyer or a facilitator?
I would like to remain an In House Counsel, as the role of counsel is “more for less” and this function has evolved as a facilitator over time rather than merely being that of a litigator.
Huzefa A. Ahmadi graduated from Law Center-II, University of Delhi. He joined the Bar Council of Delhi on 6th September ’91 and started litigating before High Courts and Tribunals. He briefly went abroad and worked with Clifford Chance on a work experience placement.
Huzefa came back to join litigation in India. He practices before the Supreme Court of India in matters concerning Constitutional Law, Administrative Law, Tax, Civil and Criminal Law. A third generation lawyer, law came naturally to him and he never considered any alternate career choices at all. Huzefa has been designated as a Senior Advocate in November, 2012.
In this interview, he talks to SuperLawyer about:
Being influenced by his father, who retired as the Chief Justice of India
Experience as a law student at Delhi University in the early 1990s
Importance and minimum requirement for the designation of Senior Counsel
Entry of foreign law firms in India and its impact upon Indian lawyers
When did you get inclined towards law?Tell us a bit about your family.
I had decided to do law while I was doing my graduation. I am a third generation lawyer. My grandfather was a judge in the subordinate judiciary under the erstwhile State of Bombay. My father retired as Chief Justice of India.
Did your father motivate you to pursue law? How did you come to study law?
My father did not try to influence my decision as to the vocation I would like to pursue. In hindsight, I feel that my lineage did subconsciously goad me to take up law.
Which stream did you pursue your basic graduation in? Was the five-year course available to you?
The five-year course was not introduced when I studied law. I did my B.A. with Psychology. I had no other plans but worked for a short time with HCL and sold computers for some extra pocket money.
How was the environment in Delhi University in the early ’90s? What student activities were you a part of? How about internships?
I did my law at the Evening Centre at Mandir Marg (CLC-II). Some professors were good but overall the course was neglected. You required an upper second in graduation to get into the law course. There weren’t too many student activities happening at the Evening Centre but classes were frequently disrupted by union activities. Most students were in Government service or over 40 years of age and did not seem interested in active practice of law.
Internships weren’t introduced at that point of time. Internships now help in getting a broader insight of the profession. A lot depends on how keen the intern is towards the profession.
Could you tell our readers about the first time that you appeared in court?
(Huzefa began practicing at various High Courts and Tribunals soon after graduation)
You always get a mixed bag of judges. Some were very helpful to young lawyers. I was fortunate to be in a chamber where I got a lot of opportunities to argue cases. My first appearance was before the C.A.T. where I argued the case of an Excise Superintendent against whom there was a disciplinary proceeding.
Who were your mentors?
Mr. M. Chandrasekharan, Senior Advocate and Mr. Maheshwer Dayal, Senior Advocate were my mentors in my initial days of practice. I was also inspired by my mother and father whose advice and guidance served as a beacon of light in the profession.
Did you ever have any other plans other than litigation? What are your views on LL.M.? Do you think Indian Legal Education needs to improve?
I never had any alternative plans.
I think LL.M. helps in building a jurisprudential base. Legal education needs to improve at the middling level. There is a huge gap between the five-year courses and others.
How did you get to work at a Magic Circle firm? When did you decide to come back to India?
(Huzefa worked at Clifford Chance on a work experience placement)
There was some work that I had done in India which led to my joining them on a work experience placement. The exposure was good as I saw the scale and expanse of an international law firm. I returned because I wanted to practice litigation in India and did not want to work with a corporate law firm.
How does one become a Senior Advocate? Is there a lot of work owing to the designation?
(Huzefa was designated as a Senior Advocate by the Supreme Court of India in 2012)
It is necessary that you practice purely as a counsel at least for about 5-7 years before you apply to be a Senior Counsel. Designation can sometimes be a boon and sometimes a curse. If you are not up to it and aren’t briefed for the strangest of reasons you will be without work. As a Senior Advocate you get very less time to prepare as you are invariably briefed on the previous day.
What are your views on the possibility of foreign law firms entering the Indian market?
I think they should be allowed to enter but on a reciprocal basis. Their entry will ensure better terms for young lawyers.
What would be your message and advice for our readers?
Work hard and stay focussed on the profession. Have a hobby and other interests because there may be long periods of time when you may not have work despite doing your best.
Hitesh Sablok studied law from Vivekananda Institute of Professional Studies (affiliated to IP University, New Delhi) in the Batch of 2003-08. A corporate lawyer by experience, now turned entrepreneur, he has worked at Vaish Associates and Amarchand & Mangaldas. Recently he has started his own business in logistics: PackandShift.com.
PackandShift is his new venture, it is an aggregation based platform which renders economical, reliable and hassle free transportation and relocation services.
In this interview he talks about:
His experience in the corporate world, the responsibilities involved.
Founding a startup, gathering the initial investment, finding a co-founder and other aspects regarding the same.
PackandShift’s main business model and facilities provided.
Advice for law students venturing into entrepreneurship.
Tell us a bit about your childhood and pre-college life as well as educational background. Did you have lawyers in your family?
I was born in Meerut and brought up in Delhi. My complete education has been from Delhi, so it won’t be wrong to call me a Delhi boy! I have been an average student throughout but always had a knack for connecting everything with logic, related concepts, application, techniques etc. My interests ranged from technology and science to nature to war history to superheroes. Major source of all this back then was the Discovery Channel, which started around the same time and till date is my favourite on TV.
My dad, who is also a lawyer, played a very vital role in shaping up my career. In fact, it was on his advice and guidance that I entered into a law school. In fact now we have another lawyer in our family – my better half!
You were till recently working at Vaish Associates as a Principle Associate. What constituted your work profile? What were your daily tasks and responsibilities?
At Vaish Associates I lead teams on transactional assignments; primarily relating to M&A and PE. I was responsible for every aspect of the deal i.e. from structuring of a transaction from a regulatory perspective, discussing and negotiating the commercial terms of the deal with the opposite party, drafting, reviewing and finalizing the agreements required in accordance with the deal structure and last but not the least – ensuring proper closing the transaction (including some post-closing activities/ filings). The day used to start early and revolved around con-calls, client meetings (be it for discussing an ongoing deal or for business development) and finalizing drafts of agreements/ documents for one or the other on-going transactions.
Earlier you were working at Amarchand Mangaldas, what was the work that you dealt with?
At Amarchand Mangaldas I was directly reporting to my Partner and was responsible for any corporate matter that came to our team (be it a transactional matter or an opinion or general corporate advisory); however, even then my work majorly revolved around transactional assignments. It was a short but a beautiful experience working at Amarchand Mangaldas and taught me so many fine things that a professional should practice.
Share the biggest challenges that you faced in the early days of your career. How did you address them?
I entered as an intern and gradually became an associate… Ours was a populated team of about 20 people. Each and everyone wanted to outshine the other and get the best work. Every senior wanted the best junior to work with him, which is a very fair need. That was my initial challenge…to prove my worth! To be the best one out of the lot… I knew that the only way was to prove my ability and that’s what I went after; BUT, how do you do that when you do not have any work? I started taking up assignments which no one was probably wanting to take (cause of whatever reasons) and I also started picking up small researches from my seniors and even from my colleagues and used to give more than my 100% to the minutest aspect possible. It was from one of such researches that I got involved in my first major and full time assignment. To my surprise I was the only junior on that matter and then there was no looking back. However, this was not an easy road – there was endless brainstorming (so as to think out of the box and come up with workable, effective and legally tenable solutions), great deal of hard work (in successfully capturing the understanding in the document) and flawless execution (which used to be the icing on the cake).
The point that I am trying to make here is that till you get an opportunity keep preparing yourself and keep finding ways to generate an opportunity; when you get it – make the best of it.
What are the skills you banked upon to successfully carve out a niche in the corporate world?
A focus on three important skills:
1 – understanding the situation/ facts (UNDERSTAND);
2 – analysing all the pros and cons and regulatory hurdles revolving around the situation (ANALYZE); and
3 – following a problem solving approach and providing a solution basis the first two steps (SOLVE). With one’s experience and knowledge increasing every day, the inputs in the above steps shall keep on increasing; however the outcome remain constant – coming out with a best possible solution!
The above approach coupled with discipline, dedication, hard work and ownership of work will definitely take you a long way!!
Recently you left your job at Vaish Associates, to co-found a start-up. Do tell us a little more about packandshift.com, the business model and the idea behind it?
🙂 After around 6 years in the profession and having experienced everything that a transactional lawyer can imagine, I wanted to take on a bigger challenge and also had this feeling of doing something of my own. After discussing with my family and a few close friends I decided to go for it and give it my best short. But this was only one third of the road to the start point.
The second important thing was to find someone trustworthy to start-up with and on this front I was lucky to have one of my close friends Sougata (my co-founder at www.packandshift.com) to agree on taking this road with me. The last and the most difficult thing for us was to identify the sector. PackandShift’s idea originated from one of our personal experiences wherein my family and I were relocating from Delhi to Gurgaon and it was a pain for us to identify and appoint an economical and a reliable relocation service provider. Very soon we realized that finding both these qualities in one person and that too in this sector was next to impossible. Therefore, we let go of the economical part and moved forward with the reliable part and zeroed in on one of the best relocation companies in India.
This became the starting point of our research into the completely disorganized sector and after months of research and discussion we finalised on transportation/ logistics as the sector where we would operate in and PackandShift was born.
Currently we offer three kinds of services:
1 – Relocation Services – Under this head we arrange for hassle-free, economical and reliable services to the customers so that they can completely sit back and relax throughout the entire relocation process. Being economical and that too along with hassle-free and reliable services is the hardest part of the game as the current players in the market who are reliable and provide hassle-free solutions are definitely not economical from a common man’s perspective.
2 – Intra-City Transportation Services – Under this head we arrange for small trucks for anyone who requires to transport within Delhi NCR. We provide very attractive and transparent prices and the customer is also saved from the hassle of calling multiple transporters and negotiating to get the best price. This segment is very helpful for distributors, retailers, individuals buying items which can’t be transported in their personal vehicle.
3 – Inter-City Transportation Services – Under this head we currently arrange for trucks of any size (basis the requirement) for anyone who requires to transport anything from one city to another.
In how many cities is your business operational?
It is impossible to start all the above segments in multiple cities at the same time. Its only been around 3 months that we have commenced operations. Currently, the focus of our Relocation Services and Intra-City Transportation Services is Delhi NCR; however, for the Inter-City Transportation Services we are currently focusing on any requirement moving to/ from Delhi NCR.
We operate on an aggregation model and for all the above services we have identified and verified transportation partners who actually render the services to the client; however, PackandShift monitors and controls the quality and the prices (in the capacity of a third party) so that the customer can get the best possible user experience.
Is this a new venture and concept in today’s market?
It would be incorrect if I say that this is a new concept in today’s market; however, the approach and the mindset is different. Being transactional lawyers and being in the service industry since long, both Sougata (my co-founder) and I
(i) understand and appreciate the importance of customer satisfaction; and
(ii) are able to understand nuances of any sector quickly and adapt accordingly (as we have been trained to do that while advising our earlier set of clients who were operational in various sectors).
I personally believe the above skills and approach will make the entire difference in developing an economical and a hassle free experience for any client.
Was it a big jump from being a corporate lawyer to being an entrepreneur? Could you elaborate on why you opted out of the legal scenario?
Throughout my legal career I was blessed to have brilliant people around me (which is a luxury today) who taught me and who have guided me always towards the right direction. My seniors always trusted my capabilities and gave me all the room and independence to handle my assignments from a very early stage. Everything was in the right place and I very much enjoyed every bit of it; however, as they say, it lacked soul! There was always an impending feeling of something missing. I always wanted to do something of my own, my own brainchild, and my very own venture! And this feeling became stronger and stronger with every passing day (especially in the last year of my legal career). This feeling coupled with the idea of PackandShift was the time I decided that now was time to take the plunge. It was definitely a very big decision as the switch was from a white collar job and corporate lifestyle (which revolved around AC offices, corner workstation with a beautiful view, client meetings and negotiations, teams and support staff to manage all your requirements etc. etc.) to a blue collar job and complete field job (having no practical office, complete day spends in the field, managing all tasks – from that of a peon to that of a CEO).
How much market research did you conduct before going ahead with the start up? What were the odds that were not in your favour, what all obstacles did you have to overcome?
Once we had identified the problem areas, we undertook a mammoth research to understand whether the solution would qualify as a business case or not. After we had satisfied ourselves with the business viability, we discussed and researched for about 5-6 months to understand the prevailing scenario in the sector followed by competition analysis. Once we had a grip on all this information, we started developing our model and eventually it was time to hang our boots! Honestly speaking we never went into discussing the odds in our favour or against us as we believed that the solution and the service which we aim at rendering shall only make life easy for people and therefore, there was no reason for not liking it.
During all stages of our venture (starting from the conceptualization stage to the operations stage), the greatest obstacle was to understand this highly unorganised sector. Further, acting as an effective medium between the operators/ service providers and the customers also emerged as a herculean task considering that the demands and expectations at both the ends completely differ. However, for every problem we have always had only one solution “Customer Satisfaction” and what differs in every situation is the path to reach that solution.
Since then it has been a continuous learning process and every day new challenges surprise us & we surprise them back! 🙂
How did you find a co-founder? Was it an easy task?
In my case finding a co-founder was easy. Sougata is a very close friend of mine and we have known each other and worked together for around 4 years now. We understand each other’s strengths and weaknesses and are able to make up for each other’s short comings.
For a start-up, probably the most important factor is investment. In this regard, how did you manage the initial investment in your new business?
Very true!! Money is a key ingredient for any start-up recipe and same was the case with us. The only thing which differs from case to case is the quantum of the monetary requirement.
In our case, both Sougata and I have been corporate lawyers and since graduating from college, we have worked with leading law firms of the country. Thanks to our previous jobs and help from our family and friends, we were able to raises the initial investment amount and commence operations of our business.
You have worked at larger law firms earlier and then after starting your own venture do you feel the work/life balance has changed? Is it more comfortable being your own boss or is the pressure of work almost similar?
“Being your own boss” does not make a difference for me. If you are responsible and dedicated to your work then it actually does not matter whether you work for yourself or you work for anyone else. In both the cases you will put in your best to deliver timely results. So practically for me there has been no change in terms of work pressure. The bottom line has always and still remains “complete everything within the deadline and move to the next task”.
Coming to work/ life balance – I definitely feel work/ life balance has changed; work takes more time now 🙂 when you decide to become an entrepreneur, it’s your job to lay down the foundation and set-up the business. At the initial stage one works for the whole office but it’s all futile if you don’t get the desired support from your family. I must say I am lucky and blessed to have a supportive family who always encourage me and stand by me. I try to spend as much time I can with my family…
What advise will you give to young lawyers who aspire to become entrepreneurs?
I only have two pieces of advice.
First – always have a logical reason and a rationale for what you want to do.
Second – understand what you wish to deliver and only then the path would be clear.
Following these two steps have helped me throughout both my careers as they bring clarity to the entire situation and one is able to systematically approach towards the required things.
What skills and qualities do you think have helped you achieve your current position and stature?
I think the journey has just started for me and it’s a bit early to answer this question 🙂
However, the basic skill set comprising of dedication, responsibility, timely delivery, result oriented approach, is useful irrespective profession and therefore, one should aim at developing and mastering them; and the only way to do that is by completely imbibing it in your routine.
Education definitely plays an important role in shaping one’s career, but more importantly, the experience one gathers while working first hand on something, i.e. on the job training, and hard work has NO substitute. One should aim at practical experience as it plays a vital role in developing the overall thought process and the ability to take right decisions. It’s simple – the more you see, the more you understand and better you deliver.
All of these are very small things and have been very critical in shaping my career…
What is your long term plan, with regard to the start up? Do you plan on expanding?
Our current and top most priority is to strengthen and stabilise PackandShift’s operations in the Delhi NCR region and thereafter, we shall plan to expand in different geographies basis the respective market and dynamics.
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