A lot of what happens in our life is because of going with the flow. There were forces around me which pushed me towards law. I finished my MBA during the subprime crisis and had a few friends who were UPSC aspirants, and we used to have enriching discussions around laws, governance, economics, policy, management, international business, and regulatory environment etc.
Law interested me and I decided to appear for University of Delhi’s Law Entrance Exam without any pressure in my head as I had already secured a PPO from Confederation of Indian Industry after my MBA-internship there. That year most of the law entrance exam was focussed on current affairs and I did not know those socialisations with friends will help me clear the entrance exam.
You got a job at a Band 1 firm as a professional support lawyer, but you choose law practice development as career?
I had a good 4 year long and successful stint with industry chambers early in my career. I was fortunate to get international exposure as well. A friend referred my CV for the opening as a Professional Support Lawyer in a renowned law firm and I got an opportunity to work on competition law matters with the finest minds in the country.
I had thoroughly enjoyed my work in FICCI which involved a lot of marketing-communication, events, writing, and media relations but soon I realised that I was not enjoying being the “lawyer”.
My heart wanted to pursue a career in management of business of law. Then I got this opportunity with Singhania & Partners which resonated with me and was a perfect opening aligning with my education background (MBA & LL.B.) , interests in communication management, and experience.
Tell us something about Singhania & Partners and your role as Head- Practice Development at the law firm.
Singhania & Partners is a full-service law firm and is one of the best places to work. We are recommended in the area of Corporate-M&A, Arbitration & Litigation, Employment Law, Banking and Finance etc. Over the years firm has established itself as an expert in construction disputes and infrastructure sector.
I joined the firm as Practice Development Manager in 2015 and was managing communications. Soon after that Mr. Ravi Singhania, Managing Partner entrusted me with implementing his vision which was to ensure that quality and correct legal content should reach information seekers through digital means. Later on, I also led the digital transformation within the organization which is still a work in progress. Over the years my role has expanded to include campus outreach and internships management as well besides other strategic practice development initiatives of the firm.
What is your two cents of advice for other similar organizations planning digital transformation?
Having a vision on the objectives of digitisation is an absolute must for driving the digital strategy and creating a digital ecosystem for growth driven firms. No organization would regret investing in technology, each organization is on a different learning curve and systems and processes will continue to improve once we are on this journey. Sooner you start the better it is.
However, it is must to have a clarity on the objectives of digitisation. For instance, one should know whether through digitisation we are trying to improve marketing and client outreach or reduce duplicity of efforts in matters management, HR process improvement or internal records management or creating a digital ecosystem.
Lastly, whatever is the objective of investing in technology make sure you click with the service provider. Service provider is as important as the software you are purchasing. Interview and assess the delivery team assigned to you. Make sure that the implementation team is committed, has shown the stability with the company and have genuine interest in understanding your business and its people. Document minutest of details, work on end user feedback, improvise, and check progress regularly.
Why it has become strategically important to have a practice development department for growth oriented firms?
We are living in information age; organizations must invest in ensuring that the right communication about their expertise and services reaches to information seeker. Practice development department bridges this gap and play an important role in ensuring visibility across social media, reputation management, and website management through knowledge management of the firm.
They help create right internal and external communication to create a cohesive experience, and unified message for the prospective customers, prospective employees, internal and external stakeholders, and clients across all digital and physical platforms.
They do so through various means such as informative content dissemination to demonstrate the firm’s expertise, managing submissions to legal directories, maintaining a record of the firm’s engagement, and facilitating conversations between fee-earners and service seekers.
There are a lot of start-ups around law practice development consulting. Do you see law firms outsourcing this work to these start-ups?
Yes, there are a lot of start-ups around practice development consulting of law firm. This is a growing area. However, in my opinion, no outsider can do much to assist in practice development till the firm leaders do not have the buy-in of fee-earners. Planning and execution are two sides of the same coin, the consultants might give good suggestions and plan for you but there is more to it than meet the eyes and at the end execution of these initiatives cannot happen without the involvement of internal stakeholders. If your internal team/ fee-earners are not aligned with you in meeting the practice development objectives consultants won’t be able to deliver much. Those who will be able to bridge the gap between planning and execution will survive and flourish.
What advice would you give to someone considering a career in the legal field?
I would recommend aspiring lawyers to do as many internships as possible and take exposure in different practice areas. Even if you have decided on practice area for you, I would recommend that lawyers should do internships in other practice areas as well to develop a holistic perspective.
I strongly advocate that law students must do internship in the practice development departments of the law firms, and it becomes even more important if they want to establish their own practice after finishing their law degree.
What inspired you to choose law as a career? How has been the decision so far?
I have always been fascinated by the impact that words – verbal or written – can have and when I was in school I was always drawn to the law as a profession, particularly because of the command over language that it requires. Of course as with most children that age, I had romantic notions about becoming a criminal lawyer and being in the thick of high profile cases. However, as I prepared to join law school, I wanted to focus more on gaining a strong knowledge base of all laws before I decided on what to specialise in. I am glad I made the decision to become a lawyer and the constant learning continues to inspire me to become a better lawyer.
What were the challenges that you faced in the beginning of your career?
The primary challenge was to secure a job. I was in the first batch of my law school and at that point we didn’t have established recruitment processes and most firms did not know us. We all had to work doubly hard towards getting our own internships and interviews and making a mark before we were considered for recruitment.
Then came adapting to a work environment which was very new, highly competitive and incredibly fast paced. While law school helps build the foundation in terms of basic knowledge that is required to start off, a lot of what you need (even at the start of your career) is learned on the job.
It was a challenge to switch out of a heavily theoretical and academic approach to a more practical style which required you to think on your feet and come up with creative solutions, while being very thorough with the law and its application. It was a also a challenge to adapt to quick timelines, long hours and a much faster pace of life. That said, the environment at work although challenging equipped me to adapt quickly and feel confident about my ability to move from my life as a student to a working professional.
What do you consider to be the most challenging and important aspects in this field of IT law?
The most challenging aspect of the field of technology law is that it is changing and evolving at a very fast pace. From being a field that was subject to very minimal regulation, technology is now at the front and centre of most regulation – either in the form of new laws and regulations, or as a result of amendments and changes being made to existing laws to adapt to the digital revolution. While I believe that it is crucial to regulate the use of technology, it is important for the law to not be overly prescriptive and compliance heavy as that would be counterintuitive to very nature of technology and its ability to evolve.
As an IT lawyer, it is important to marry the principles that the laws are based on with the functions that various technologies bring with it in such a manner that innovation is not hampered, and the harms that technology brings with it are addressed.
This often requires us to go back to first principles, be very aware of how technology is being regulated across jurisdictions and actively following the policy initiatives with respect to technology as they most often set the context to new tech regulation.
Often times, you will find yourself walking into a grey area with no interpretational guidance where you need to take calls based on several factors including your deep understanding of technology, the intent of regulations and regulatory perception.
Jyotsna, do you remember any exigent experiences while advising clients on all these regulatory aspects, data privacy, etc. ? What suggestion would you give to our young law professionals to tackle the same?
The field of technology law is very broad and encompasses several areas such as cyber security, data privacy, e-commerce, digital payments, content regulation etc. Very often these areas intersect and it is critical for us as technology lawyers to be able to address the full spectrum of issues that a client is facing without operating in silos. A good example of this is in dealing with cyber security incidents which have become very common. The nature of cyber-attacks that organisations face are highly sophisticated and evolving each day and as a result our assistance as lawyers in advising clients on regulatory and commercial aspects becomes critical.
Cyber-attacks often come with several considerations including regulatory reporting obligations, an assessment of privacy issues (if personal data is involved), criminal law aspects while examining unauthorised access, ransomwares etc., as well as building strategy around communication to the data subjects, to the public and depending on the sector, sectoral regulators. Most often these attacks are multi-jurisdictional and require understanding and working closely with lawyers in the relevant jurisdiction to develop a common strategy.
In order to deal with matters like this, and generally on matters related to data, technology and privacy, I would recommend that young law professionals train themselves to be nimble, highly aware of regulatory trends, enforcement and practices across jurisdictions to be able to advice clients in a holistic manner. It is also important to guide the client on an approach that is future proof and based on best practices and this often puts the client in a much better position than others who choose to only do the bare minimum when it comes to compliance.
Jyotsna, people have started feeling that corporate is a safe option instead of choosing a longer struggling period in law, do you think the same?
I do sense that in-house as a choice of profession has gained some more traction recently, however I don’t think this is necessarily because it is considered a ‘safe option’ as opposed to a law firm. I think in-house roles have also become an important choice as the demands of the role are similar to a lawyer in a law firm, with companies ramping up and investing in legal departments.
In fact, the challenge of dealing with legal issues by being a part of the company as opposed to serving as external counsel, is one of the main factors that I think drives people to choose in-house. That said, I think there is generally a push to rethink how one wants to practice the law and there do seem to be several parallel tracks that have come about for professionals to choose from, instead of joining a law firm or sticking to mainstream law.
How do you balance your work and personal life ?
My approach to balancing work and personal life has always been to not view one as restricting or impinging on the other. I am conscious of the decisions I make when it comes to work and personal life and at all times I try and ensure that I am honouring each commitment. That said, if I am unable to manage a perfect balance, I make sure I am not hard on myself. It is not doubt easy for work to overwhelm and capture all your mind space but with time and small changes to my routine I have been able to feel like I am in control of both aspects of my life.
For example, the time I set out for my exercise, or to spend with my child is sacrosanct and I try and schedule it in a way that does not allow work to creep in and reduce the time I set out for this. If it means I start my day an hour later, then that does not faze me and most things can in fact wait. I try and stick to a routine that is simple and flexible so that I am able to respond to the demands at work and home calmly. I also make sure that I take small breaks from work whenever I can so that I don’t feel like it is always catching up to me.
A lawyer sometimes is expected to do work apart from legal functions as well, what are your views on the same?
Absolutely, and this is an increasing expectation even from clients. The demand now is not just to provide sound legal advice, but also to be able to identify and balance commercial considerations in arriving at solutions. This may need you to step in to the shoes of the various stakeholders you are dealing with – for e.g. if there is a new technology product that is being launched, you need to be able to understand the objectives and outcomes from a technology, business and legal perspective.
Further, as a lawyer, it is also important to be aware of and participate in public consultations and policy making as this often shapes the regulation that comes out. Separately, as a lawyer in a law firm, you also have several administrative functions attend to including billing, matter management, knowledge management and building and business development. All of these functions are equally important as being a lawyer and equip you to be a better and more efficient lawyer.
Jyotsna, was there any roadmap that helped you thus far in your journey, or any mentor that supported you from the very beginning, please share how was it for you?
I didn’t enter this profession with a specific roadmap. In fact, when I joined Trilegal I wasn’t sure of what I wanted to specialise in. When I joined, we had a rotation system and my first seat was TMT. I have since then only been part of the TMT practice and I couldn’t be happier with how things turned out. While I am not very rigid with how things pan out and often like to play things by ear, I did set various targets for myself in my journey as a lawyer and what I wanted to achieve. Most importantly, I ensure that I am always growing as a lawyer, and learning new things every day. I always kept (and continue to have) an open mind and as a result I have greatly benefited from the perspectives of my juniors, my peers and seniors.
The partner’s practice who I started off with has always been a mentor for me and has had a huge role to play in my journey as a lawyer at Trilegal. I have learned immensely from him and the focus has always been to develop a high quality practice that focuses on learning, freedom of thought and self-challenge. It is also important to not lose sight of the importance in building out a safe, respectful and encouraging work space and that has been integral to my journey as a lawyer in this firm.
While being in a law firm is no doubt challenging and competitive and I have had my share of tough times, overall my experience has been nothing but rewarding and enjoyable and that’s what keeps me so invested in this.
According to you, what networking strategies should be adopted by the first generation lawyers specifically in corporate?
Jyotsna: Networking in an orchestrated set up is a challenge for most people and at times is not very effective. I think that networking should be woven in to your practice as a lawyer where you ensure that you are meeting and investing in professional relationships in several inorganic ways. For starters, don’t wait for a specific time in your career to start networking.
It is never too early and the earlier you start the more natural it becomes for you. Take the time out to think of people that you want to meet and engage with, find avenues to meet that person – it could be a conference, it could be a roundtable discussion or perhaps a knowledge session that you conduct, or are a part of. Keep in mind what to be of interest to that individual and if there are relevant developments, find a way to get your thoughts over to them. Don’t be shy of expressing your opinion or taking a stance as that helps the other person understand your approach and views as a lawyer.
Most importantly, do not network with an expectation to see immediate results. Building professional relationships comes with its own gestation period and it is important to recognise that. You will find that slowly you will make a mark and people will remember you for your expertise and reach out. And for this you do not have to be the loudest voice in the room.
Lastly, any 3 best pieces of advice for our young lawyers?
I would just say keep an open mind, stay on top of all regulatory developments and constantly learn. No amount of knowledge is too much. And find a way to truly enjoy what you do.
What inspired you to choose law as a career? How has been the decision so far?
My journey to choose law as a career dates back to the day when I accidentally met a judicial officer at one of my relative’s place. After interacting with him, I was fascinated by his personality and his love for the law. Immediately thereafter, out of curiosity, I researched about law. In great part, I wholeheartedly thank my mother, who motivated me to pursue law. Over the past few years, I gained first-hand experience by witnessing various court proceedings, which improved my procedural knowledge of the law hence, my overall journey has been incredible.
What were the challenges that you faced in the beginning of your career?
The insurmountable obstacle at the beginning of my career was my introvert nature. I overcame this by watching Suits, the famous American Legal Drama Television series. Another impediment was that I am a first generation lawyer with no Godfather in the profession. I overcame this by being consistent in my efforts. I sincerely believe that dedication and constant efforts are stepping stones towards success, hence, I ensured that I learn atleast one lesson of life/ practical application of law every day without losing hopes.
How do you handle ethical dilemmas that may arise in your work? Could you highlight some ways to tackle the same?
Answer – In order to address ethical dilemmas that arise at work place, I preach the principle of dispute avoidance. Ethical dilemmas occur in all facets of life and I believe it is essential to address them at a nascent stage so that majority of conflicts can be avoided. It is crucial to separate yourself from the problem and act neutrally.
We lawyers do a lot of research in making our cases but the majority of the time, when an ethical dilemma comes, we skip the critical thinking and rush to make the judgment call. It is only at a later stage that we realise about the damage that has been done and that’s when we do the damage control exercise. However, if we look upon situations of ethical dilemma from a bird’s eye view, we can be a step ahead and act rationally.
Ethical dilemma should not always been seen as something that brings negativity. It is a way to come up with more meaningful realizations.
How far do you see the importance of Client Counselling?
The importance of Client Counselling can be better understood by the quote from Lois McMaster Bujold – “The dead cannot cry out for justice, it is the duty of the living to do so for them”. Client counselling is an art that we, as lawyers learn as and when we interact with aggrieved litigants. When an aggrieved person approaches a lawyer and starts narrating their dispute, it is important for a lawyer to identify and segregate the who, what, when, where and simplify the dispute redressal mechanism for the Client.
The Lawyer should listen to the Client without any mind-chatter and give their undivided attention to the Client. A good lawyer, by good counselling will always be able to get the best relief for their Client. Efficiently communicating with the Client is the bread and butter of a lawyer and it is important that the lawyers don’t think of the Client as a money-minting machine. While interacting with the Clients, we often have to wear the hats of a psychologist, while being in the shoes of a lawyer. Focus should be upon building connections with the Client, money will follow. Be like Harvey Spector from Suits, care for your Client and settle their disputes – be the best god-damn ‘Closer’.
Aarzu, do you believe that somewhere the craze for litigation has been vanishing lately due to job security in corporate?
Yes, I agree with you. Young lawyers don’t wish to continue into litigation for two main reasons, first and foremost, litigation is less rewarding in the initial years, not many seniors in the profession give good pay to sustain the expenses. Secondly and most importantly, one has to devote a lot of time in litigation as the incubation time for litigation is more as compared to corporate jobs in the legal fraternity.
To quote Justice Joseph Story – “the law is a jealous mistress and requires long and constant courtship. It is not to be won by trifling favours, but by lavish homage”. Many young lawyers enter into the litigation entirely blinded by the charm of black coat and white collar band. However, the bitter reality is that more than 70% of young lawyers who enter into litigation, filled with confidence either leave or plan to leave litigation. Some of them have genuine responsibilities of family, others who are afraid to burn the midnight oil – leave litigation in peer pressure seeing their fellow friends earn good in corporate. Now, in litigation we are experiencing brain-drain. Hard-working and intelligent lawyers are leaving litigation to enter into the corporate arena.
Our audience knows a little about commercial agreements, also is there a whole bunch of work in that segment, how interesting is that for any corporate lawyer?
Commercial Agreements are fascinating to work in. Drafting of these Agreements commence at the stage when parties are negotiating, if the terms between the parties are not negotiated properly or when there is a grey area, the parties end up knocking the doors of the Courts. One must make the Agreements/ Contracts diligently after understanding the fulcrum of issues between the parties and must always identify the deal breakers.
A good lawyer knows how to draft an air-tight contract, keeping in mind the intent of parties and leaves no grey area in it. One should draft well-articulated Contracts like Louis from Suits. He always captured the imagination and intent of the parties and drafted rock-solid contracts protecting the interest of his Clients .
Between arbitration, contracts and agreements, liasoning, and civil matters, which sector will have more opportunities in coming times for lawyers?
Human conflicts are relentless, so disputes are inescapable. Hence all the sectors will have nearly equal opportunities for lawyers in the coming times. However, the Indian Legal System is well known for delay in adjudication. It is a conventional fact that the Hon’ble Courts are over-burdened with pending cases and it is almost impossible to provide quick and efficient relief to the aggrieved parties, Alternate Dispute Resolution in India is an endeavour made by the legislators to attain the Constitutional Goal of achieving complete justice in India.
In today’s era, we can see a constant increase in people resorting to various ways of Alternative Dispute Redressal Mechanism for resolving their disputes amicably. Even the intention of the legislature is to resolve the disputes amongst the parties. At any stage if the Hon’ble Court witnesses a chance of settlement amongst the parties, the matter is referred to any of the alternative ways of dispute redressal mechanisms i.e. Arbitration, Mediation, Conciliation, Negotiation or Judicial Settlement by Lok Adalat for speedy redressal.
In many cases it is even mandatory to refer to any of these alternative ways of dispute redressal mechanisms at the pre litigation stage. For example, Section 12 – A of the Commercial Courts Act envisages a mandatory reference to mediation to attempt to resolve the disputes out of the court before a suit can be instituted. I am of the opinion that Arbitration sector will have more opportunities in the coming times.
Talking about work-life balance, there has been ample amount of discussion on health issues as a lawyer, what do you believe are the best practices to maintain the equilibrium?
I sincerely believe that a good laugh and 7 – hours of sleep is the best practice to maintain the equilibrium. However, people in the legal fraternity have a habit of overworking. Life is all about balance. One should know when to stop. If we keep on working in a monotonous routine, then we would not be able to perform efficiently and effectively in the long run.
Apart from doing regular exercise and maintaining a healthy lifestyle, we need to find a hobby. Our profession is significantly serious in nature, if we don’t enjoy the journey, we will not have much good memories to share 5 years down the lane. Mind is the greatest asset for a lawyer and its important that we must find solace in our professional lives. Only then would we be able to enjoy our personal lives and create an actual work-life balance.
Few advices for our young law professionals?
Explore all areas of law before you finally make a judgment call about your niche practice.
Stop thinking about the opinion of the world, it’s all in your head and focus upon improving the quality of your work.
It will not be easy. Grab every opportunity that you get. If that opportunity is not given to you, go and ask for it. Do not give up. It will be worth it.
What motivated you to take law as a career and how has been the decision so far?
Law was appealing at the level of ideas when I was young. In law school, like at NUJS, said ideas tend to get affirmed (absent extraordinary circumstances). For those of us who didn’t grow up with lawyers in the family, some self-selection invariably occurs. Since law wasn’t part of the Indian board curriculum in my time, certain proxies, such as affinities for logic, language, argument, etc., informed the decision-making process. I’m not sure if these proxies are useful, let alone representative, but we do rely on them disproportionately at that stage of life, given informational and experiential scarcity.
It’s been a pretty good journey so far. I’ve lucked out over time with regard to being able to dabble variously, and I enjoy diverse aspects and manifestations of the law. I look forward to more learning.
Your internship experiences are filled with renowned firms and other reputed people, was there any roadmap for the same or all did was in flow? How would you guide students in choosing internships?
I suppose these things are part of an organic trajectory, perhaps steered by a latent sense of purpose. Things do happen in a flow, but we ultimately end up navigating viable paths. Curiosity helps. I see students these days choose internships based on niche interests and very specific practice areas. I admire such clarity, especially at that young an age. While it’s difficult to know yourself completely in law school, elimination is useful. However, I still think that sampling from a large spread is a good idea before marrying into the unknown.
Could you shed some light on your journey in the topmost university, Fletcher? I’d love to know the flashbacks.
Fletcher was a cherished destination. Even when I first joined S&R Associates (where I currently work), I had an idea that I might want to explore a specialization later, preferably in a different country. I liked Fletcher because of many things, but most of all for the flexibility and eclectic environment that it offered. The crowd is truly diverse and international, and my ways of looking at the world changed fundamentally when I came out.
The best memories are perhaps the simplest ones, the quiet neighbourhood, the bucolic surroundings, the redbrick buildings, hours spent inside the ‘Harry Potter Room’, trudging to Harvard amidst the first snow of winter, and endless cups of coffee with friends. Add to that, the opportunity to genuinely engage with people from various walks of life, from various parts of the world, from contexts wildly different from yours: that kind of exposure is irreplaceable.
Deborshi, among all the specialisations, i.e., in MALD, LLM, and Ph.D. Fletcher’s programme, what do you find the most interesting to you? How far did you use all this expertise in your practical areas of work?
I liked the Master of Arts in Law & Diplomacy (MALD) program because it gave me the chance to keep law as a base and build on that substratum by adding disciplinary layers to it, including those involving public policy, political economy, international relations, comparative politics, global history, research methods, national security, foreign policy, international organizations, transnational business, and others. The MALD remains Fletcher’s keystone graduate program, and for good reason.
Also, it’s a 2-year program, as opposed to the 1-year LLM. I’d heard from others before me that a year’s duration often feels too short from a learning perspective, and I wanted a more immersive experience.
I received two awards as a student under the MALD program: the William L. Blue and Joan R. Blue Scholarship, and the Alfred P. Rubin Prize – awarded by the Fletcher law faculty to the ‘outstanding student of international law’ in a given year. Other than my core specializations at Fletcher, I also cross-registered with the Harvard Law School (HLS) for a semester-long seminar on law and politics.
Accordingly, I decided to apply for the LLM thereafter. The LLM is a distinctly curated program, comprising smaller cohorts, a very close-knit community, regular exchanges with faculty and peers, periodic events and updates, and some amazing international law professors.
The career trips to New York and DC pivot away to interactions with partners from global law firms, rather than with policy thinktanks and international organizations alone, such as in the MALD. For instance, Prof. John Burgess, then partner of WilmerHale, was the Director of the LLM program during my stint there.
His insights on international M&A and cross-border financial intricacies were deeply valuable. At the same time, cross-listed faculty like Profs. Jeswald Salacuse and Ian Johnstone brought with them multi-disciplinary perspectives on investment law, arbitration, the UN, the World Bank, along with constructivist approaches and sociological constructions of the law.
The PhD, of course, is a very different animal. It’s a self-driven process, especially after you finish your coursework, clear the comprehensive exams, and defend your proposal. That’s when the real research begins, and it’s easy to get lost en route. Besides, life happens. Managing things and people in the course of the PhD – which, in a US curricular perspective, remains an immensely trying, albeit templated, process with several discrete milestones – is one of the bigger challenges.
Going through your background information, it seems you’re always up for learning something new. Even though you worked independently in the Calcutta High Court, after obtaining MALD and LLM degrees, you indulged yourself in teaching a self-designed elective course in “Law and Public Policy.” So, Deborshi, was that challenging or thrilling for you, and how?
Being from NUJS myself, I wanted to offer a course there. This was before my PhD coursework began. However, by that time I’d already decided to adopt a more ‘law and policy’ approach to work. That way, offering such a course at NUJS was a culmination of many things, including my interest in weaving together miscellaneous disciplinary paradigms into mainstream legal analysis.
How about your experience with Harvard LIDS, Boston, and working with ? What do you think is the most exciting part you would like to share with our readers regarding the same?
From the perspective of personal evolution, these stints were hugely significant, where I wanted to push myself to try new things, especially in the context of applying my learning to situations on the ground. For instance, ‘law and development’ was one of my main focus areas. Working with the Law and International Development Society (LIDS) at Harvard thus provided a great opportunity in respect of putting to use some of the theoretical constructs I’d learnt across real-life problems and circumstances. We worked with the secretariat of Transparency International about the possibility of reparations for victims of ‘grand corruption’ in international criminal proceedings.
Further, ‘international negotiation, mediation, and conflict resolution’ was one of my other specializations. I was taking a course on mediation with Prof. Eileen Babbitt. Around this time, I joined MWI, a company in Boston working in the ADR space, specializing in dispute resolution for companies through ombudsman, negotiation, consulting, arbitration, facilitation, and mediation services. I worked with instructors at the Harvard Negotiation Project of HLS, learning from their experience of negotiating with Fortune 500 clients and vendors. As part of my training, I mediated a few cases in Massachusetts district courts as well, particularly in south Boston.
Similarly, I was working with Prof. John Cerone on matters of international criminal law and humanitarian law, which culminated in representing Fletcher for the Model International Criminal Court Moot held at Krzyżowa, Poland; serving as editor for the Journal of Humanitarian Assistance; and joining the Fletcher Human Rights Practicum, pursuant to which a small group of us had the opportunity to collaborate on drafting amicus briefs for the Committee on the Elimination of Discrimination against Women (CEDAW), a body of independent experts that monitors implementation of the corresponding treaty.
This last experience came in handy because I’d already been working as Supervising Lawyer with Femin Ijtihad – Strategic Advocacy of Human Rights (SAHR) – a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization. Accordingly, I continued working with SAHR until 2017 as its Global Legal Counsel using lessons from such experiences.
As Global Legal Counsel at SAHR, I developed best practices and drafted model laws for the purpose of legislative reform, designed judges’ and lawyers’ training workshops, and advised individuals, organizations, and local lawyers/judges in various jurisdictions, including in the US, Afghanistan, Iraq, and Nigeria.
Later, during the formative stages of my PhD, when I first got interested in the legitimacy of dispute resolution, I worked with my advisor, Prof. Salacuse – an ICSID-empanelled arbitrator and a leading expert on negotiation theory – with the Judicial Leadership Project conducted by the National Center for State Courts at the Harvard Kennedy School of Government.
I also taught a lot during this stage and worked on several consultancy, research, and training assignments, including in terms of: taking foundational classes on International Law for undergraduate students of the Political Science Department at Tufts University; teaching introductory courses on American Politics, Sociology of Race & Ethnicity, and Globalization & Social Change under the School of Arts and Sciences at Tufts University; updating Prof. Salacuse’s book on “The Law of Investment Treaties” (3rd edition) for Oxford University Press and another book on “International Business Planning: Law & Taxation (U.S.)”; coordinating and teaching a course called “Debates in Economic and Political Relations” conducted by the Horizon Academic Research Program, New York for exchange students from mainland China; and serving as coordinating instructor for the Tavitian Scholars Program in Public Policy – conducted by Fletcher for diplomats and officials from the Foreign Service of the Government of Armenia.
So far we’ve seen lawyers not focusing on their mental health because of work pressure and tight deadlines. Please shed some light on this issue, any tips that can make the situation better?
We develop our own coping mechanisms over time. If there is meaningful work to be done, there will be appurtenant pressures and timelines within which one needs to deliver. I can’t speak for others, but I like to treat work as an extension of self. Accordingly, it’s very important to me that I enjoy the work that I’m doing, to be really invested in it. When that happens, I think a couple of things coincide: you end up being better at your job, and the pressure stops being a bother. In fact, the pressure might become a thrill in itself.
I’m deeply aware that mental health is an important issue for all professionals, including for lawyers. Modern-day work ends up creating high-pressure situations for everybody. We ourselves as clients and consumers in quotidian contexts demand fast, efficient service. It’s not so much fun, perhaps, when the boot is on the other foot.
Work-life balance is what everyone talks about, presumably as an ideal. I’m not big on that myself. I don’t mean that we should sacrifice life, or the pursuit of happiness, at the altar of work. But when work goes beyond a set of itemized chores, or when work means more than something one has to do out of a sense of compulsion or duty, it starts creating a balance of its own. Life gathers around work. Personally, I like that kind of life.
If, on the other hand, work starts feeling like a lot of work – an ordeal, a terrible burden, etc. – then maybe one needs to move things around. I realize that this view reeks of some kind of privilege that many are ill afford to harbour, on account of variegated factors ranging from family, finances, health, and sundry responsibilities. Having said that, I was diagnosed with Multiple Sclerosis (MS), an incurable and debilitating autoimmune disease, in 2006 when I was in my third year of law school. At that time, I had no idea what MS was, or what to expect from it over the long-term.
I remember thinking that it sounded pretty awful when the neurologist looked at my MRI and pronounced his verdict. Some other doctors suggested that I leave studies altogether and focus on maintaining my health, let alone maintain hopes of building a career, legal or otherwise. It’s been an interesting journey ever since, for sure. I’ve had incidents of relapse during internships at JSA and NDA. I’ve been tempted to give up many times, because simple things that others take for granted, or tasks that ‘normal’ people do on an everyday basis, get very difficult to complete at times. Since I have the relapsing-remitting kind of MS, there are good days and there are bad days, and some phases of relapse, along with a progressive accumulation of disability over time.
With that qualification, however, I know that I have been very lucky to have had the kind of support from family, friends, doctors, physiotherapists, gym instructors, peers, colleagues, bosses, and employers that allowed me to continue – be it at Tufts, Fletcher, AQUILAW – where I worked during my PhD, Jindal, or S&R.
We have to reach out for support when we need it. It sounds simple, but it’s very difficult to do. This realization itself goes a long way in taking care of oneself.
We have heard that most law schools don’t focus on practical skills, and the current demands as well, what are your thoughts on the same, and how law students and other professionals can upskill their game?
I was teaching at the Jindal Global Law School before re-joining S&R Associates as Counsel. I think that educational institutions (and the wider pedagogical culture that such institutions uphold) undergo some learning over time and adapt themselves to new dynamics, especially in order to remain competitive and relevant. Compared to my time as a student, law schools these days need to, and do, focus a lot more on practical skills, including actively seeking out legal practitioners to conduct sessions where stories from the trenches are shared to give students a better idea of how things work in the real world.
At least that’s what my first-hand takeaway was, from my 3-year stint at Jindal – where as an Associate Professor, I offered courses on contract law, investment law, M&A and PE, etc. I myself used case-studies and real-life examples to familiarize students with the commercial law aspects of the courses I taught. The idea was to provide a holistic and ‘practical’ learning experience for all students. The Bar Council of India, too, has introduced various new curricular requirements that focus on such practical skills in keeping with the times.
Lastly, any 5 best pieces of advice for our readers?
I honestly doubt that my ‘advice’ will find resonance across the board. Nevertheless, here goes:
1. Make plans. These are building blocks of your future.
2. Expect said plans to go awry. Bad things happen, none of us is special. Be prepared to improvise.
3. Keep an open mind, and keep learning. Staying relevant and curious is half the battle.
4. Stick to your strengths and build on them.
5. If possible, have fun meanwhile. Life is short. No point making it more painful than it needs to be.
What motivated you to choose law as a career? And how has been the journey so far for you?
It was way back in my school days, when I was introduced to the subject of Civics. The subject itself is so enriching and intriguing. It was then, when I was briefly made aware of our judicial system as well as our fundamental rights, which instilled in me the hunger to know more. Hence, the quest began to learn more, which eventually brought me to a decision of taking up law as my career.
It has been said by many, that follow what interests you and you would never fall back. During my initial days while I was an intern, I ensured that I should get to taste as many genres of law as I can.
However, in the journey, the eagerness to learn more, was lost, rather, it shifted to the idea of having a comfortable corporate job.
But life has it plans and eventually, I landed up with one such firm in my final days of internship which gave me a taste of corporate as well as litigation and this combination not just awed me but also ignited in me the fire of learning, which was lost in the process of becoming a lawyer from a law student. Today, it has been more than 3 years that I am working as an Advocate and the journey of a corporate litigant has just been so overwhelming, that I cannot imagine even a single day without the courts and the law.
What were the challenges that you faced in the beginning of your career?
It is true that beginnings are always tough, but worth the wait. Starting my career as an Advocate in 2019, was no less than a dream.
As we all know that Advocates are generally pictured to be an essential character of a courtroom drama and as other Advocates, I always craved to be a part of it. However, those courtrooms became a flowery dream, when the world was hit by covid. In my journey, the major challenge that I faced was of not getting the essence of being an Advocate for nearly 2 years since the courts during the pandemic became virtual.
The virtual court has its own pros and cons but as an Advocate not going to the courts physically made me miss on a lot many courtroom essentials, as the work was confined majorly to drafting pleadings only. Further, due to work from home, the issue of filing the pleadings at courts became yet another task, hence, the introduction of e-filing was even though a necessary and welcoming change, but was even tougher to execute.
Nonetheless, when the situation of covid subsided and things started taking its shape back to normal, the courts also started physically, and its almost a year now, since I started appearing before the Courts physically, which has brought the Advocate in me back to life and the experience of past one year has been incomparable.
What is the most challenging case you have handled in litigation and what were your learnings out of it?
Litigation means challenges. Every case has its own beauty and with every case I have learnt different viewpoint in which the law can be interpreted. I won’t say that I have faced ‘the most challenging case’ till date, since I am too new to the industry and yet to explore a lot. Yet, I would say that, I have been fortunate enough to be a part of such a team in which we have faced several cases which are different from each other and are a challenge in itself. I am a part of dispute resolution team and I have been a part of the strategy making, wherein I have understood that there is no straight jacket formula to solve all the cases, each of the case have a distinct fact or law which makes the work more challenging. Moreover, I have a core practice in Insolvency & Bankruptcy Code, 2016, which is an ever-evolving law. The Code has seen several amendments over a period of 6 years and with such amendments the challenges pertaining to each case has arisen. Accordingly, the challenges have taught me to be abit more proactive towards the amendments, to be more patient and have perseverance to attain a finality in a case.
Rishika, according to you, what exciting opportunities can corporate litigation bring in the future for the upcoming generation?
The upcoming generation tends to have an urge to “have more in less time”. Corporate Litigation is that genre of law which provides the new gen-z lawyers a platform to have a mix experience of the business law along with the its practical application i.e., having the taste of litigation at the same time.
With the increasing trend of start-ups in the country, there is no escape from Corporate Litigation and it is to be understood that Corporate Litigation not always aims towards court proceedings, but also has the essence of mitigating the risk of litigation in several corporate and commercial dealings by way of client counselling.
With the boom in economy there is no doubt that there will be several business enterprises looking for expansion and restructuring and this also falls under the wing of Corporate Litigation. Hence, it won’t be wrong to state that Corporate Litigation has a lot to offer to the upcoming generation since it is the most modern and trendy genre of law.
How do you ensure that your clients receive the best possible outcome? Any hacks for the same?
One of the basic principles to provide the best outcome to the client is that you have to be a good listener. In order to provide a suggestion on point, it is very important as a Counsel to hear your Client at length. A patient hearing would not only allow the Counsel to understand the facts clearly but would also help in co-relating the same with the applicable laws and to strategize the whole case. Secondly, which bears the utmost importance is, the communication between a Counsel and its Client which must be transparent and clear.
It is essential that the Client must not hide any facts from its Counsel and the Counsel while taking up the case, if feels that the case is strong only factually and has a weak leg in law, then the same maybe well informed to the Client.
Further, as a Counsel we ensure that our Clients are duly updated about their matters and hence all the developments howsoever small that be, should be informed to the Client in a timely manner. Thus, it is really important as a Counsel to make the Client comfortable enough to share its case and therefore a welcoming environment is must and necessary in order to retain the Clients.
Rishika, is freelancing worth doing in the legal profession and if yes, how to master the same?
Personally, what I believe is that, freelancing in the initial stages of the profession is a sheer waste of time and is a strict no-no for me, as it involves a lot of struggles for a newbie. However, one can very well be a freelancer after spending a sufficient amount of time in the industry.
To master this art it is essential for one to showcase the market your USP and once people have known you because of your knowledge, you build good connections and then it is way easier to be a freelancer.
How useful do you think the idea of Metaverse would be in the legal industry?
Honestly, what I believe is that Metaverse is a whole new concept in itself and this sudden change of everything from physical platform to virtual platform is not an easy change to be acceptable by all especially in the legal industry. The idea of Metaverse may sound very fascinating and may be a time-saving one, but for me these are dreamy and may have serious repercussions.
It won’t be wrong to say that till date we have no stringent check and balances for securing the privacy and confidentiality of social media applications as there are serious questions which are still unanswered when it comes to protection of the data of an individual.
Hence, it might happen on the digital platforms that the privileged relationship of the advocate and client is violated as the privacy is at stake as there exists no regulatory forum for such virtual universe. Therefore, it is true that things are changing rapidly in the intent to achieve a digitalised world but we are missing out on basic essence and enjoyment of everything at its pace.
What are your thoughts on the frequent amendments that are brought under the IBC every now and then?
Basically, amendments in a law showcases that, the law is being put to use and is being utilised by the population at large. It is true that laws have to be amended with time so as the same is viable enough for the legal system. It is quite imperative to amend the law but doing the same constantly makes it difficult to interpret and implement, as, there have been situations wherein, a case of a Corporate Debtor is pending for approval of Plan before the Adjudicating Authority, and meanwhile an amendment is introduced which has to be incorporated into the Plan and hence, the Plan is to be revised.
This effects the whole intent of the Code as it aims towards a time-bound resolution. It is thereby certain to note that amendments are essential but it should be affected and necessitated only at certain intervals and that too with a proper mention of the nature of such amendment, i.e., prospective or retrospective, as deemed necessary, for the development of the Code.
According to you, what networking strategies should be adopted by the first-generation lawyers specifically in corporate litigation?
It is apposite that, for a first-generation lawyer to make a mark in the industry, it is essential to have patience, perseverance and must be hardworking along with smart work. A first-gen lawyer should mainly focus on networking and building connections.
One can build connections by being a member to a Bar Association, wherein, one gets to meet a lot of lawyers from different genres and further, one should also attend events, seminars and conferences to build contacts. However, mere getting contact is not building, it is important for one to regularly follow-up with the new contacts. Hence, in order to build network, one should be well-recognised and known in the industry and that can either be by way of working or by way of building contacts.
Lastly, any 3 best pieces of advice for our young lawyers?
I have completed merely 4 years (approximately) in the legal industry and I myself is at a tender age in my professional career to advice the young ones. Nonetheless, I would like to share 3 of my basic principles which can benefit the young lawyers and they are:
Know your interest, to show your interest at work;
Work to learn and not to earn, as earnings would follow subsequently; and
Keep clam and work hard, as there are no short-cuts in life.
What was your motivation behind choosing law as a career?
Growing up, I spent my formative years in the company of my grandfather, who remained deeply embedded in social and political life for as long as he lived. I used to accompany him to many of his social gatherings full of lawyers, local politicians and judges which gave me an opportunity to plunge in the stirring political discussions. Every time I listened to them, I realized there was so much more to it, than what was being said. During one such event, my grandfather once said, “Look around…if you also pursue law, it will help you be whoever you want to be” and that is when I finally decided to turn his words into actions.
What were the challenges that you faced in the beginning of your career?
To get a job was probably the easy part but real game is to survive and thrive in it. There is a significant difference between knowing the law and its application to any legal role held by you. To put it simply, knowledge is theoretical, and skills are practical. You may be well versed with the rules of the game, its history and the statistics. But this only makes you well informed and knowledgeable, it does not make you skilled in it. To be good at a game, you must consistently practice your skills and techniques.
Similarly, in a job knowledge is not everything. Skimming through multiple case laws, absorbing wide range of legal knowledge, being able to itemize relevant legislations does form an integral part of law school curriculum. But this is only the first step. Once you enter the real world, the project or case you are handling might require advanced research and that is where you have to showcase your skills.
To be able to undertake that research, articulate thoughts and express ideas effectively using verbal and written communication skills to multiple audiences, as well as to listen for meaning and understanding forms a crucial part of your career.
With LLM in Intellectual Property Laws, what drew you to this field of legal researcher and content manager, eventually as a commissioning editor?
I studied Intellectual Property Laws from Gujarat National Law University. Ostensibly, it doesn’t sound relevant to any of my jobs but my education is coming strangely handy as my course helped me develop research and writing skills, the ability to present and argue persuasively and to develop an eye for detail.
In particular, I chose to be in research and academic publishing because I have always enjoyed interacting with the professors and other scholars as they are the people really cutting edge with their subject area and sometimes many subjects at the same time. So, I thought it would be terrific to work with these people and be paid for it.
What are the essential skills, abilities and personal attributes required to make it to the field of Legal Research, Writing and Publication?
Publishing is a creative industry so commercial awareness and strong verbal and written communication skills will get one far in publishing. Focusing on research skills is also equally important. It is crucial to understand how to perform legal research, including where to start and the steps to follow. Perseverance is the key when it comes down to research.
Can you recommend trade journals, magazines or professional associations which would be helpful for our readers?
The World Trade Organisation produces a wide range of publications on various trade-related issues. Most of these publications may be downloaded from the WTO website. Also, WorldTradeLaw.net offers a free library of trade news and resources, as well as a subscription service, which provides summary and analysis of all WTO reports and arbitrations; a keyword index; a database of dispute settlement tables and statistics; and a user-friendly search tool for WTO cases, legal texts, and other documents.
How does your work affect your general lifestyle?
The working culture of publishing industry is exciting, and the working hours can be long sometimes but not insane. The industry does offers you a good work life balance. It’s a busy-buzzy environment to work in so one must be highly organized and really good at juggling between multiple tasks.
What kind of problems and challenges do you deal in the publishing process?
The biggest challenge is to procure manuscripts from authors within the scheduled time frame. Editors have to ensure that they do not miss the publishing deadline and authors don’t miss their writing deadline. For this, the editors are required to establish a tremendous working relationship with the authors which involves detailed correspondence and having a lot of empathy for the authors to be able to put yourself in their shoes.
Throughout the publication process the role of editor never ceases. At any stage between signing a contract till the product hits the market, editor is the point of contact for all concerns and queries authors might have. Suppose if you are giving the authors really tight deadlines you have to explain why that is and do what you can to help them through to avoid potential slippages. Any delays at early stages can have dramatic effects on publication schedules especially when the publishers have already been advertising a book’s release and the due date needs to be changed.
Therefore, to avoid any delays, editors spend a large part of their working week speaking with their authors. All of this is in addition to a whole myriad of administrative tasks that always need to be done.
If you could do it all over again, would you choose the same path for yourself? If not, what would you change?
Big YES! By the end of graduation, I was certain that litigation or working at a law firm never inspired me and during my post-graduation I realized that I am more inclined towards research and writing. Needless to say, the decision to follow my passion came with its own adjustments, particularly in terms of compensation. But the flexibility and work life balance my job offers always keeps me afloat.
What advice would you give someone who is considering being in this field?
The key to achieving anything and everything you desire is Action.
So, “Wish for it, Hope for it, Dream of it, but by all means do it.” – Leslie Levine
Was pursuing law planned for you or it all happened in a flow? Kindly share with our readers.
Well to start with, I am a first-generation lawyer, and to be very honest law was never a career option for me until the 10th Grade, I had planned to either join my father’s business or start something of my own. However, it all changed in the year 2012, when my father was involved in a car accident, in which one bike hit his car and the pillion rider died on the spot.
After this, it was the first time that I ever visited the Local District Court of my city. During court visits, I was highly influenced by the impact the lawyers could have over their clients. Soon after, I developed interest in Criminal Law and the same grew over me and made my belief indeed stronger. So today, I can proudly say that being in the legal fraternity was a well thought decision and didn’t happen by chance.
What do you think, which specific advice has helped you come thus far in law? What is that one motivation that keeps you going in life?
The advice that has helped me come this far is that if you roll up your sleeves and decide to do something, nothing in this world is impossible. Everything is doable, you just need to have the courage.
Frankly speaking, I never participated in any public speaking event in high school and had stage fear. Now came the time in Law School, when I realized the importance of Moot Courts but the continuous insecurity of never being a good public speaker or having no prior experience kept acting as a barrier.
It was only in the third year when I got the opportunity to participate in the Intra Mock Trial, where although in my opinion, my public speaking was not up to the mark, however, this opportunity gave me a sense of understanding that it was these mental barriers which were stopping me to do something. Since then, I have worked upon my oratory skills, and have never said no to such an event, which has helped me tremendously in becoming a better orator and Advocate.
Speaking about Motivation, after winning the National Mock Trial Competition in 2017, me and Prateek Lakra made a goal to start our own law firm after completing 3 years at the Bar. In 2021, we started Clergy & Wisemen, and since then there has been no looking back, and taking our Law Firm to the level of top law firms in India is the motivation that keeps me going.
Could you brief a case you were led on that substantially broadened your knowledge of the legal field?
From what I have learned while practicing law is that law is nothing but common sense, one should just have the vision to see the answers. It is an art that is learned through experience and wisdom. During the initial years of practice, the most crucial part is to understand the implementation of what we study in the Law School.
It was in 2019, when a Fraud had been committed by a person, which was worth crores. In the same case, my client was duped for a handsome amount. Initially, we filed a Suit for Specific Performance against one of the properties of the Accused before the Delhi High Court, however, it came to our knowledge that the Accused had created multiple third-party rights over the property, therefore, we also had to move before DRT, since the bank had started proceedings against the accused. Also, there were claims from various entities, due to which there were multiple suits and cross impleadments.
Parallelly, proceedings under the 156(3) Cr.P.C. were also instituted against the accused, wherein we got favourable order and an F.I.R. was also registered with the Economic Offences Wing (EOW), Delhi Police.
These proceedings helped me understood various remedies that a person has under both the Civil & Criminal Laws in India and how the Courts and Tribunals function.
Among all the specialisation, i.e., Administration law, RERA, Taxation, Corporate law and Arbitration, which area of law is the most interesting to you and why?
I would say that Corporate Law, since Corporate Law can itself be classified into various other sub-specializations, and due to the recent increase of Startups in India, Corporate Law has opened up various opportunities for Young Lawyers.
Now, with Startups the issue that usually comes up is that they cannot afford Big Law Firms, and it is where young lawyers can step in.
Further, in Corporate Law, a Lawyer has to get into the shoes of the Founders so as to protect their interests while making agreements such as the Shareholders and Founders Agreement, so that in case the Company goes for funding or dilutes its equity, the founders don’t lose the control over their own company. Moreover, issues like dispute resolution between founders also has to be carefully drafted. With contracts, it is necessary that the Liabilities are limited, indemnification clauses are watertight, and in the case of Intellectual Property, the rights are carefully defined. I can go on with such examples, such is the nature of Corporate Law.
What would you do if you had taken on a case that went against your values? Any prior experience you could relate with?
I take cases as per my conscience; however, I am a firm believer in the fact that a person is innocent until proven guilty.
Yes, there have been certain cases where I had to self-introspect whether I was doing the right thing, however, I tend to keep my personal opinions and professional life apart. As the great Mr. Ram Jethmalanai once said: “A lawyer who refuses to defend a person on the grounds that people believe him to be guilty is himself guilty of professional misconduct.”
How do you maintain the work-life balance Avi?
As a Lawyer, I feel that law is that field where once you are at the initial stage you need to spend more hours, drafting, researching, and navigating through documents, but as you practice more and more it gets easier to locate the crux of the case and you exactly know where to hit the nail, so spend in your initial years, it will reap well. Also, law is just like investing, the more you invest in your legal skills right now, the more returns in the later years.
Personally, for me, what has helped me maintain my sanity with this schedule is waking up early in the day, and having some time to myself before the whole show at the law firm begins. I believe that one must do something that is good for his/her soul once a week. It’s okay to take a break, but you should know when the break ends. The work should not suffer, make yourself that efficient.
What strategies do you use to ensure that your clients receive the best possible?
There is no secret sauce to ensure the best possible results. Each case has to be seen in its own strategic manner.
In my previous experience be it working at chambers of a lawyer or law firms, one thing I saw was that although the Clients were getting reliefs in their cases, however, they were not satisfied by the management. For example, the client would not know what is going around in the case, sometimes they won’t know what is next date, no regular updates, so on and so forth.
After starting Clergy & Wisemen, we not only ensured that our clients get the best legal services but also focused on the management of the Law Firm, be it the regular updates of their cases, addressing their doubts, having dynamic meeting slots, taking regular follow ups about our services, etc.
Now with Corporate Clients, we have come out with certain services such as Contract Lifecycle Management (CLM), Legal Manager, which have substantially increased the effectiveness and efficiency of the services provided by us. Recently, we have tied up with certain AI companies, which help us in the drafting of contracts, although each contract is reviewed by either an Associate or Partner at the Law firm, but it has helped us in reducing the TAT and Cost.
What challenges have you faced as in bank matters with DRT, DRAT, NCLT & NCLAT?
DRT and NCLT, alongwith their appellate tribunals, were made so that the burden over the courts is reduced and the cases can be fast tracked. Although, the burden over the courts have been substantially decreased, but I would not agree with the fact that the matters have been fast tracked.
Since, due to a smaller number of benches, the matters usually take a substantial time to be adjudicated, wherein the sitting benches are not able even finish half of the cause list, and requests such as to list the matter at the top of cause list have to be mentioned.
Moreover, these tribunals are not on par with the High Courts, be it the adjudication process, or the working of the registry.
Therefore, I believe that the number of Benches in the Tribunals should be increased and only in the rare cases the timeline mentioned under the Code shall be extended.
Lastly Avi, any advice for our young legal professionals?
My advise to the young legal professionals would be that they should always be updated with what is going around in the Legal Sector, this would not only help them in increasing their knowledge, but also to strike out a conversation at a relevant place and time, and trust me this helps significantly.
The other would be that they should understand that whatever service you are giving should be a valuable addition to the client and it must solve their problem, taking care of these would definitely help a professional building up his name, since the person would not only happily pay his/her fees to you, but also would recommend you to others.
Lastly, in case someone is planning to start his own practise, then rather than just possessing the legal skills, one must also have the skills of a sales person, it might sound a little different, but Law is a Business until you get a client, one might be a very good lawyer and possess good skills, but till the time he has got no client, those skills would be worth nothing. Therefore, it is advisable that you must know to sell whatever skills and knowledge you possess.
Was pursuing law planned or did it all happen by chance?
I would say it was planned for as long as I can remember. When I did not score the desired rank in my CLAT examination, I decided to do law post-graduation. I studied B.Com (Hons) at Shaheed Bhagat Singh College, Delhi University and thereafter, took admission in Campus Law Centre, University of Delhi. I have always been inclined towards litigation and so far I think it is working out well for me.
Please enlighten our audience about the initial struggles in your career and how you managed to overcome them?
I have been very fortunate both in terms of having the absolute freedom in my career choices and finding the right opportunities. I started my professional journey with Wadhwa Law Chambers as an IP Associate.
Despite working in a relatively niche field of law, I was exposed to all kinds of work ranging from general advisory, commercial litigation to transactional work. Additionally, smaller teams ensured significant contribution in every matter.
I just feel that as a first generation lawyer there is certain lack of insight or clarity one has in figuring out their career goals. That being said, everyone has different journeys and law being the dynamic profession it is, every opportunity irrespective of the organisational structure or area of practice is worthwhile.
The only major struggle for me (as well as my peers) has been to achieve a work-life balance, which generally becomes impossible in smaller set ups. This problem is also supplemented by our own deep-rooted conditioning and seeking validation in overworking. I think having a healthy professional relationship with your senior(s) is significant in resolving any such workplace issues.
What are the most important considerations to keep in mind when dealing with IPR and Tax issues?
That’s a very wide question given the range of IP rights and Tax statutes in India.
To answer it briefly, I would say insofar as IPR is concerned, understanding the overlap between various IP rights is extremely important. Additionally, in any intellectual property issue, whether litigation or transactional, the foremost consideration is determining the scope of the IP right involved.
Again, taxation has a very wide domain. While having a basic understanding of the tax implications, statutory timelines and compliances is a prerequisite to any tax dispute, one needs to be updated with the ever growing developments, jurisprudence and amendments. Circulars, Press Releases and Notifications also assume a significant role in understanding taxation issues.
What are the most prominent challenges that you have come across while dealing with Tax and IPR Transactions?
Both Tax and IPR happen to be slightly technical fields and as such breaking down the legal issues is always a challenge. Lack of substantial precedents with relatively new enactments such as the GST Act poses another challenge. For that matter, even the concepts of Design law are still not well-settled in India.
Deepika, how do you ensure that clients’ intellectual property is adequately protected, and what are the basic compliance procedures one has to work upon?
I have personally witnessed a growing awareness about the importance of intellectual property (particularly trademarks and copyright) amongst upcoming business and entrepreneurs. Brand protection is finally being considered paramount amongst businesses, who not only seek to protect their brands but also understand the legal consequences of intellectual property violations.
The basic idea is to start early and secure statutory protections. The importance as well as effectiveness of IP Prosecution cannot be underestimated.
What are the most common mistakes you see businesses make in IPR nowadays?
Like I said, businesses, irrespective of their size and operations, are increasingly becoming conscious of intellectual property rights. However, not acting early enough both in terms of protection of one’s IP rights and initiating actions for any infringement/violation poses significant problems.
Besides this, businesses need to be extremely wary of loosely-worded agreements whether it be licensing, settlement or even employment contracts insofar as they pertain to ownership of the IP rights.
What resources do you recommend for staying up to date in law? Any blogs that you always keep an eye on?
Insofar as the general and daily legal updates are concerned, dedicated legal news resources such as Bar and Bench and Live Law already cater to a significant audience which even includes non-lawyers/legal professionals.
For developments in the field of IP law, I find SpicyIP and IPWatchdog very interesting. For that matter, LinkedIn has now become a great source for legal updates. More often than not, I find myself looking for a case law on LinkedIn because I recall scrolling past something familiar on the platform. What is really great about LinkedIn is that its not just independent practitioners or firms sharing daily updates but law students having an inclination towards IP.
If your university or office have a PTC subscription, I would always recommend skimming through it.
Deepika, you’ve been quite active in these IPR dealings, but lately we are witnessing the evolution of Metaverse and NFT, according to you how will it affect the legal industry?
I feel with every technical development/evolution, comes in the legal disputes. Internet and e-commerce have opened floodgates of litigation with IP disputes constituting a major chunk of it. Similarly, copyright and trademark issues particularly, one concerning the ownership of such IP rights in NFTs seems imminent.
“As dependency on tech and AI will increase, issues pertaining to security and privacy will also witness an increase”, please throw some light on this statement.
That goes without saying. Digital footprints and access to personal data invariably leads to security and privacy concerns. While it is impossible not to move along with these technological developments, we will have to educate ourselves of all the possible repercussions.
Just last week, there has been a lot of discussion on privacy issues concerning the Lensa AI mobile app which is being used by several celebrities/influencers across social media platforms for sharing their AI generated “avatars”.
Any 5 best pieces of advice that you would love to give to our readers?
Well, here are the five takeaways from my experience so far:
–Constantly reassess your growth and goals.What gives you work satisfaction today, may not tomorrow.
–Insofar as possible, work on all sorts of matter and donot pigeonhole yourself.
–A law degree does not necessarilytranslate to litigation so explore your avenues.
–Professional work ethics and accountability goes a long way.
–Lastly and most importantly, break out of your legal circle every now and then. Meet your non-lawyer friends, engage in discussions about anything but law. The idea is to expand your horizons and avoid the burn out.
We ask this question to almost everyone, but ma’am looking at your experiences, I would like to flip it a little bit, how did law choose you?
I come from a family of lawyers, judges, and professors. I think ‘law’ chose me before I was even born. From an early age, I used to sit with my grandfather and used to observe the trials he used to preside over. Also, during my studies in history in my undergraduate course, I realized how a society’s nature is modeled and governed by the legal system that it has. This realization got me interested in exploring law as a professional carrier for myself. The campus law Center, university of Delhi helped me understand law and brush up on my legal and oratory skills.
What were the struggles you faced in the beginning?
By ‘beginning’ I believe you mean the beginning of my legal career. I think the biggest struggle is coping with the rigorous work routine and keeping on doing what you like the most. I was always passionate about teaching, so along with my practice, I kept on teaching at Delhi University, IP University, Bennet University, and Sewa Samarpan Samiti, which is an NGO based in India. I think this helped me pursue my dream with passion.
Firstly, a big congratulations on starting “Accords International”. Do you mind sharing some obstacles that might come in the way of being a founder at any firm?
You know I have started to believe in what Elon Musk once said, “starting a company is like eating glass and staring into the abyss”. It is a difficult task to build a company, run it, and earn profits with it. My biggest challenge was to find like-minded people to work with and constitute a team that creates a conducive environment. I have been fortunate to finally find an amazing group of team members. I am liking every bit of it. No doubt you are wearing a crown of thorns, but you are your own boss. Accords International works in mediation and restorative justice. Both these fields are new to India and clients and colleagues are still learning. We provide mediation and restorative services and training regularly.
When we talk about disputes, most of the time obviously the parties commit the same number of mistakes, and both suffer as well, before even going for conflict resolution, don’t you think there is something out before that?
In the event of a disagreement, it is often that the situation escalates to a conflict and then the parties take the matter to the court as a dispute. If the lawyers and other professionals who advise the parties during the initial stages have a non-adversarial mindset, then disputes can be avoided, and disagreements can be amicably settled at very early stages. This is beneficial for all, the clients, the lawyers, the courts, and the society.
As someone who has also specialized in cybercrimes, bullying, etc, what are the core reasons that these things happen and any unconventional ways to stop the harm?
Dan Olweus defines simple bullying as ‘unwanted aggressive behavior that is intentional and that involves an imbalance of power. Most often it is repeated over time. If this is done via an electronic device, then that makes sit cyber-bullying.
The four Elements of Bullying are- Aggressive Behavior, Power Imbalance, Repeated act, and the players (Perpetrator and victim). If we add a computer, cell phone, and any other electronic device to traditional bullying that will make it cyberbullying.
The common types of cyberbullying and their reasons are:
Exclusion- Publicly Ostracizing the target from the online world- Possible reason is to make the target vulnerable and lonely.
Flaming- posting personal insults and vulgar texts- possible reasons are power play and intent to humiliate the target.
Impersonation- pretending to be someone else. – possible reason can be entertainment or fraud
Cyberstalking- using the internet and technology to follow someone- (harassment, stalking, revenge, fascination, show-off)
Trolling- to deliberately provoke others- (attention seeking, revenge, boredom, personal amusement, paid by someone else)
Accords International is working on a model for dealing with cyberbullying and online harm with the help of restorative justice. Teachers, parents, and school management can use restorative practices like regular restorative circles and non-violent communications to de-escalate conflicts at early stages.
What are the necessary skills to have as a “Trained Mediator”?
As a mediator, one learns
To facilitate a conversation between two disputing parties.
To be objective,
To be impartial,
To be an effective communicator,
To feel empathetic, patient, adaptable,
To be trustworthy,
To understand the psychology of conflict,
To be able to distinguish interests and needs and
To become a better negotiator.
“Unconventional careers in law will spoil your degree”, why has this misconception led many people far away from the legal industry revolution and how to excel oneself to reach heights?
I think this advice worked in the previous century. Today, we live in a world where lawyers are working in tech policy, AI, cyberspace, Outer space, public policy, sustainability, diplomacy, and many other ‘unconventional’ fields. I think law teachers and colleges should update their curriculum on a regular basis and students should not only be exposed to court proceedings but also to the newer developments around the world. Accords International is working with the vision to make such experiences available to Indian students.
Lastly Upasana, any advice to level up the skill game in this profession?
I find reading is very important for lawyers to always keep updated and informed. Also, skill-building courses in mediation, drafting, negotiation, tech policy, etc are important to learn about new fields. Accords International has launched its next mediation training for the months of January-February 2023. Training programs like this keep young professionals updated and connected.
Tell us about yourself and what inspired you to pursue a career in corporate law?
I am born and brought up in Delhi. Despite being amongst the toppers in my school, I was not sure what I wanted to pursue professionally. I took up Biology with Maths in XIIth in order to keep my options open. After passing out of school, still unsure of what I wanted to do, I zeroed in on studying Business Administration on a whim, as I did not want to pursue medicine or engineering, which was the most opted for career option back then.
It was during graduation days that I discovered my love for law when I was introduced to Business Laws as a subject. I also realized then that my natural personality traits were aligned with being a lawyer, when I used my skills to negotiate and convince my Professors and HODs to help my friends who ran into trouble with them for multiple reasons.
Of course, being amongst the good books of my teachers helped to a certain extent in that.
This naturally progressed into me opting for law when I cracked Delhi University’s entrance exam and studied law in the prestigious Campus Law Centre. Thereafter, I was a practising lawyer for a few years before I chose to move In-House with a Company.
During my very enriching stint as a first-generation lawyer, where apart from handling cases for individuals, I also got to work closely with several Companies while handling their litigations and arbitrations, I got fascinated by the multi-faceted workings of a Company and the various factors that played part in assisting the top-management take crucial business decisions.
This piqued my interest in corporate law, and life came a full circle when Business Laws subject in BBA helped me discover my inclination towards law, and after practising law and building my base in understanding the workings of a court, I moved In-House.
What are some of the most challenging aspects of your job as an In-House Counsel?
Law is a demanding profession, and whether you are a practising lawyer or an In-House Counsel, every day comes with new challenges, and with each challenge, comes a new opportunity. To pin-point the most challenging aspects would be difficult, as every day is different.
The job is to assist the Company in all legal affairs, and it can involve anything and everything under the Sun.
A regular day as an In-House counsel involves a wide spectrum of activities ranging from handling aspects of general corporate advisory, looking after the litigations of the Company, interacting with external lawyers for the same, attending matters, drafting and red-lining of pleadings and agreements, negotiating on closing deals for the Company, briefing senior counsels, interacting with several departments for assisting them in dealing with regular operational issues and commercial transactions, and so on and so forth.
Simply put, the challenge is to align business objectives with the legal standpoint to the best benefit of the stakeholders, both internal and external, but that is also where the fun lies.
What strategies do you use to stay abreast of legal developments in the corporate world?
Frankly, I found it easier to stay abreast of the latest developments in law when I was a practising lawyer, as daily interactions with colleagues outside Courtrooms while waiting on matters to reach would organically help in exchanging new information.
I did not realize the importance of relevant information just coming to you without you making conscious efforts towards the same. It is a tad bit tougher for an In-house counsel and it requires conscious efforts to stay abreast with the new developments, both in the dynamics of law and business.
My learnings from my practise days is what works for me in staying aware of the new developments in the corporate world.
Just that my casual chats with my colleagues outside courtrooms is now replaced with interactions with my colleagues from various departments of the Company, who enlighten me with their knowledge and new developments in their respective fields, and collectively, that gives me a bird’s-eye view of developments in the corporate world.
Thereafter, my curiosity about the new information pushes me to read extensively on the new developments from a legal standpoint, and as a legal professional, the research skills acquired during my internship and practice days help a great extent in gathering the relevant knowledge.
Now we are all surrounded by legal tech tools that help in contract drafting and in so many other forms as well, how do you see these tools changing the world of lawyers? What do you think the future of corporate law when AI and the role of legal tech is added on as well?
These tools are contributing a huge deal in reducing the burden on lawyers. The contract drafting tech tools save up on a lot of time by giving a format to start with. The same, of-course, has to be worked on to suit the specific needs and requirements of the business, and in my view, the legal expertise in doing so cannot be replaced by the Artificial Intelligence behind these tools.
Besides contract drafting tech tools, there are several other tech tools that help manage the MIS of the multiple litigation’s in a Company and helps In-House counsel in keeping a track of the matters. These tech tools also help in providing data for analyzing the reports for strategizing plans and actions of handling various matters. I see these tools as very important helping hands in assisting lawyers and In-House counsels to work in a more effective and efficient manner.
What do you consider to be the most important skill for a successful In-House Counsel, and any roadmaps for the same?
I am still learning new skills every day, and I think the quest to keep learning is the most important skill for a successful legal professional, whether In-House Counsel or a practising lawyer.
Apart from that, what I have learnt till now is that it is important to put your thoughts into actions. As lawyers, we develop the skill to formulate multiple strategies and plan of actions, but it is crucial to execute the plans in a timely manner to suit the needs of a fast-paced environment of a Company. I feel there is no fixed roadmap for the same, and all ways to achieve the same are the right ways, given one is consistent, conscientious, and persistent towards it.
Harsha, what do you consider to be the most rewarding part of your job?
I consider the contentment I derive after a good day’s work where I feel that I contributed towards meeting the Company’s objectives and assisting the various business functions in taking important business decisions, as the most rewarding part of my job.
Lastly, any 4 pieces of advice for our young law generation.
Law is an intellectually rewarding field and is an extremely demanding one as well. It is important to understand that in this field, knowledge is power, and the learning is never-ending.
A few of my learnings that I would like to share for young professionals:
Go to Courts. I know Corporate Law has been glamorized enough with the multiple perks it comes with as compared to the challenges one faces as a practising lawyer, but I cannot stress enough on knowing the basic functioning of courts before joining a Company as an In-House counsel. The courts are where all the action is, and the learnings you gather there will help you in the longer run. Once you know the drill, you would not be taken for a ride by others, and you would be a better asset to the Company. Your initial few years as a practising lawyer would also give you clarity on which industry appeals to you.
Take responsibility. That’s the way you learn at the beginning of your career. There could be days when you could not present your case before court, because the clerk did not reach on time with the file, or any such fiasco. It helps to internalize the situation instead of pushing the blame on others. Analyse what you could have done better to avoid the situation, learn, and not repeat in future. Pushing on the blame or justifying yourself before your senior would only stagnate your individual growth, while taking complete responsibility would make you adept at better handling such practical problems that you may face.
Don’t be afraid to fail. A cliché, but your failures will teach you more than your successes.
While we are students, exams are held once or twice annually, but once you are a professional, every day is an exam, minus the syllabus. So brace yourselves for the challenges, and have fun while at it.
