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  • Rishab Kumar, Junior Associate, David Polk & Wardell, NY, on experience at GLC, Mumbai, the cost of an LL.M from Columbia University and International Law Firms

    Rishab Kumar, Junior Associate, David Polk & Wardell, NY, on experience at GLC, Mumbai, the cost of an LL.M from Columbia University and International Law Firms

    Rishab Kumar is working as a Junior Associate at David Polk & Wardwell LLP. He had graduated from Government Law College, Mumbai in 2009. While in college, he interned as a law clerk with Justice Cyriac Joseph and worked at diverse places such as Reserve Bank of India and Majumdar and Partners. Later, he went on to join the chambers of Mr. Darius Khambata (Additional Solicitor General of India at the time) as a Junior Attorney. After working for a year, he entered into a two year training contract with Linklaters. Thereafter, he went to pursue an LL.M from Columbia University where at the end of his course, he was offered a job at David Polk & Wardwell. This interview brings out the journey of a law student to become a corporate lawyer working in one of the leading law firms in the world.

    In this interview, he talks about:

    • His experience at GLC, Mumbai – being a founder member of GLC, Debating Society and conceiving GLC Policy Debate;
    • His internship experience with Justice Cyriac Joseph, Reserve Bank of India and Majumdar & Partners;
    • Linklaters and his training contract with them;
    • Doing LL.M from Columbia and then joining David Polk LLP.
    • His experience as an expert in Merger and Acquisition between India and China.
    • The merits and demerits of both corporate lawyer and a litigating lawyer.

     

    How will you introduce yourself to our readers? What motivated you to choose law as a career?

    To introduce myself, I would start by saying that I was born and raised in Bombay (as it was then called) and I went to school and college there. I took to law because it was a field that gathered within itself two possibilities: intellectual stimulation and a rewarding professional career (and also because I wasn’t any good at mathematics). I always enjoyed debating, model UNs and was drawn to the humanities subjects generally, so it seemed like the right choice to me.

     

    What activities were you involved in as a student? Looking back, is there anything you wish you had done differently?

    Given the way the five year law course at GLC is organized, I always saw it as an opportunity to explore various aspects of the legal profession. Being in Mumbai, I was able to intern at law firms, with senior counsel, at the RBI and law clinics, all with the aim of getting a broader perspective on the industry.

    In college, I spent my time mooting, debating, writing articles and serving as a student editor on the GLC Law Review. All these activities really help developing the skills required to be a good lawyer.

    Looking back, I wish I had better grades through law school, because that’s something you’re always answerable for in black and white. But, it’s not an insurmountable obstacle. I devoted time to co-curricular activities and I don’t regret that – it’s important for everyone to find their own balance.

     

    What motivated you to start a debating society and why did you decide to organize the ‘GLC Policy Debate’?

    (Rishab was one of the founders of the GLC Debating Society, and also conceived and organized the ‘GLC Policy Debate’.)

    GLC already had a very vibrant community of intellectually curious students who were keen to debate everything from Plato to Pluto. The debating society was meant to be a structured outlet for these discussions and to provide students a platform to express their views. It instils public speaking confidence in those who lacked it. It was a particularly rewarding process because GLC, as a government college, has students from a wide range of backgrounds and this led to a remarkable diversity of opinion.

    The GLC Policy Debate was formed along the lines of the Oxford Union policy debate which used to be framed as “This House has No Confidence in Her Majesty’s Government”. We adapted this to the Indian context and invited noted bureaucrats, academics and journalists to defend and oppose the government’s policies. The debate was conducted on the steps of the Asiatic Society Library, for its symbolic significance as the former Town Hall of Mumbai. This was a unique event in India in that it was a fair and frank assessment of the government’s policies by an intelligent audience, with students voting at the end.

    The most challenging part of organizing this was obtaining the infinite government permits and approvals required to hold this event in a public space – particularly given the controversial topic.

     

    Please describe your internship experiences for our readers.

    (During Rishab’s time at law school, he interned with Justice Cyriac Joseph, Supreme Court of India, as a Law Clerk; Reserve Bank of India as a Research Intern and Majmudar & Partners as a Trainee.)

    With its early morning classes, the five-year course at GLC allows students to spend time working as an apprentice during the afternoons and gain a very real initiation in the practice of law. Students can either choose to be at one firm/organization for the duration or do a variety of different things. Both paths have their merits, but I chose the latter. The range of experience I gained offered me a unique perspective in that it allowed me to read and research a wide variety of subjects and learn how they were applied in practice. I was also able to meet some extremely inspiring people at these organizations, some of whom remain mentors till today. Most importantly perhaps, this variety in experience was useful to me when I applied to foreign law firms and LL.Ms.

    Clerking in the Supreme Court was a fantastic experience because I was able to witness some of the great lawyers of our time arguing the most significant legal issues of the day. Working as a research intern at the RBI, I learnt to value the role of a central bank in the economy and caught a small glimpse of how policies are formed at such institutions. At Majmudar & Partners, I gained my first experience working at a corporate law firm and interacting with clients. All these experiences gave me a solid foundation and held me in good stead going forward.

     

    Please tell us about your experience working with Mr. Darius Khambata.

    (After graduation, Rishab joined the Chambers of Mr. Darius Khambata (Additional Solicitor General of India at the time) as a junior attorney and worked there for 1 year before leaving to start a training contract at Linklaters.)

    By the time I joined the Chambers of Mr. Khambata, I knew that I would be leaving in 8-10 months to start a training contract at Linklaters in London. Mr. Khambata was kind enough to let me follow him around during this time. He is a towering figure at the bar and an inspiring human being. Working in his chambers was an extremely rewarding experience.

    My general duties were to research and assist Mr. Khambata in court. Mr. Khambata was the Additional Solicitor General of India at the time, so I was able to research and follow matters that involved constitutional law issues, administrative law issues, international and trade law issues – a variety of interesting subjects. This was really a dream assignment, because as a junior lawyer you typically don’t get to write research memos and spend hours reading Supreme Court cases to formulate and test arguments on such fundamental matters. But this was what I did during my time in chambers and it was a tremendous learning experience. I also enjoyed the camaraderie and tradition of working on the original side of the Bombay High Court.

     

    When did you start thinking to opt for a training contract from a foreign law firm?

    I started first with the idea of doing an internship abroad, because I thought it would be a valuable experience and good for my CV. At one point, I might have written emails to over 50 firms all over the UK. I didn’t get a single positive response. That’s when I learnt about the Linklaters India Internship program. I had missed the deadline for that year, so I decided to apply the next year. The application process for the internship was quite detailed. I spent a considerable amount of timing drafting and finalizing my application.

    I was thrilled to be offered the internship, which turned out to be more fun than I had expected. Living in London and being wined and dined every other evening was really an enjoyable experience. You also get to do some real work and get a glimpse of what life as a trainee is like. At the end of the internship, you’re invited to interview for a training contract. When I was offered the training contract, I thought that if I was going to practice corporate law, what better place to start than Linklaters in London – the work is exciting, the training is excellent and the compensation is very attractive.

     

    International Law Firms stress on commercial awareness. What sources, materials, books, newspapers or blogs did you read to crack commercial awareness?

    International firms do stress about this. But, reading the business newspapers and perhaps the Economist should hold you in good stead. You’re not expected to know the closing share price of Infosys the day before – just a general awareness of what’s going on in the world with a particular emphasis on things that would affect the practice of a global law firm.

     

    Describe your experience applying to Linklaters. Is there any specific point to keep in mind while writing the application process?

    The application process for the internship was quite detailed. Several essays, two rounds of interviews and an aptitude test. My advice to anyone applying is to take the application seriously. Spend time to read it, re-read and then proof-read it. I remember the recruiting department used to say, if an application contains more than three obvious typos, that’s probably a straight cut.

     

    How did you prepare for the Aptitude Tests in connection with your application? Do you recommend to undergo proper training for this?

    I’m quite certain that the Aptitude Tests don’t require any specific preparation – and that’s part of the objective. It’s probably useful to sample a few IQ tests and maybe the Watson Glazer critical thinking test, but only to get a sense for what to expect. It’s not a test that you’re expected to prepare for. The only thing that can hurt you on this test is to stress about it.

     

    Could you briefly describe the interview process for us?

    The interview is typically a casual conversation about your past, what you have done with your time and why you’re interested in the firm. Always have a story and explanation for every item on your CV because, if it’s on your CV, an interviewer is entitled to ask you about it. You’ll rarely be tested on a point of law, and even if you are, if you reason your answer correctly, not knowing the actual provision of law is completely acceptable. Research the firm and the interviewer – it’ll help you understand what they’re looking for. Ultimately, it’s just about making intelligent conversation and showing that culturally, you will be the right fit.

     

    Describe your time at Linklaters during your Training Contract. Also, briefly describe your work experience in various practice areas while undergoing Training Contract at Linklaters in London.

    The training contract is a 2 year contract where you rotate through four different practice areas. I chose to work in Capital Markets, Litigation, Banking and Corporate (M&A). The work you do in each practice area depends on the people you work with and the nature of the transaction/case. In most circumstances, you will play the role of a junior lawyer on the transaction/case, which may involve some tedious work (due-diligence, document review etc.), but you’ll also get asked to do interesting research and even get the opportunity to interact with clients. The people you work with are extremely intelligent and inspiring and the quality of training is really excellent. It’s also exciting to work on the most high-profile cases that you read about the next day in the newspapers. At the end of the training contract, trainees are expected to choose a practice area to ‘qualify’ into and this is a question of preference and a person’s area of interest.

    I enjoyed my time most in the Corporate (M&A) department because out of the various corporate groups, it seemed to me, the most tangible and relatable – a company buying or merging with another company. Every task that you perform is in furtherance of this objective and that simple context makes your work understandable and rewarding.

     

    What motivated you to leave Linklaters and pursue LL.M. at that point of time?

    (After completing Rishab’s Training Contract, he went on to pursue LL.M. from Columbia University School of Law, New York.)

    I had always wanted to do an LL.M. simply because I wanted to study further. There were a lot of subjects that I wanted to learn more about and to immerse myself in an academic environment. I knew that this would not be possible while working at a corporate law firm. The end of the training contract is a clean break and gave me the opportunity to get away and study for one last time.

     

    How did you go about writing your SOP for Columbia? Are there any key factors which one should keep in mind before writing the SOP?

    Writing an SOP is a deeply meaningful and personal exercise and one should treat it as such. It’s a process that cannot be rushed – I remember when I applied to Columbia, I had probably started writing my essay in June for a November deadline. I think the most important thing to do with an SOP, is to read the question. Each university has a different format and rather than viewing them all as the same essay, it’s better to look at the specific question and answer the question.

     

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    Tell us about the cost of an LL.M. at Columbia Law School? Did you receive any scholarship? Does Columbia Law School provide students with scholarships?

    The cost of an LL.M. at Columbia Law School is approximately US$80,000 (including tuition, rent and reasonable living expenditure). I know that Columbia Law School offers a number of scholarships, but I wasn’t offered any that year and I financed my LL.M. through a student loan. There are several educational trusts in India that will offer scholarships to students, but many of them are in the form of an interest free loan. If a scholarship is not forthcoming or feasible, the cost of an LL.M. is a factor that one should consider thoroughly. It is not easy to find a job after an LL.M. that will pay a salary which allows you to pay off that amount of money fast.

     

    After completing your LL.M., did you face any obstacles towards finding a job in the US? What is your opinion on LL.M. recruitment vis a vis  J.D. recruitment?

    Whether it is difficult to find a job in the US is often a function of market conditions which cannot be predicted. In 2013 when I graduated, market conditions were not great and there were few jobs for international lawyers.

    However, the key obstacle is the recruitment cycle. The JD program is a three year course. Students interview for summer associate positions during their first and second year and at the end of their second year, law students will intern at a law firm over the summer. Law firms usually finish their first year recruiting from this cohort of summer associates and by the time LL.M. students arrive in the fall, all law firms have completed their recruitment for the following year. This means that unless a specific position opens up, it is very difficult for LL.M. students to find jobs at US law firms.

    That said, if market conditions are favourable and if you are diligent with your search, it is possible to break in; especially for someone who is able to demonstrate a substantial amount of relevant work experience.

     

    After the LL.M., you joined Davis Polk & Wardwell as an Associate. This is one of the most prestigious and sought-after law firms in the US- how did you come to be offered this position?

    Davis Polk & Wardwell is one of the few firms with a strong India practice and the firm was looking for someone with my profile to do US and Asia cross-border M&A work. At the time, their India practice, as part of the broader Asia practice, was operated mainly out of the Hong Kong office and so I was hired for that position. The firm was a top choice for me and I was extremely fortunate to be offered the position.

     

    After starting in the New York office, you shifted to the Hong Kong office of Davis Polk. What led to this shift?

    I started in the New York office as any US associate, I worked on a few transactions and went through the introductory training program before moving to the Hong Kong office as always planned. The cross-border India, Asia M&A practice in Hong Kong was the right fit for me at the time and so, I moved to the Hong Kong office.

     

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    Your core practice area is Cross-border M&A and PE/VC investments. How did you come to choose this practice area? What skills does one require to be a lawyer in this field?

    I had always been interested in international and cross-border work. But my focus in M&A was developed during the course of my LL.M. The US jurisprudence (Delaware in particular) around corporate M&A transactions is extremely sophisticated and I was drawn to it. Several of my classes were in this field and I enjoyed the nuanced discussion on fiduciary duties, business judgment and shareholder value. I was particularly attracted to the idea that this academic discussion was directly related to the practice of M&A at a US law firm and was constantly evolving.

    Moreover, no two M&A transactions are the same and there is no cookie-cutter method to a transaction. You start with a clean slate each time and tailor your work to the specific context and the client’s objectives. This makes each transaction intellectually stimulating.

    In practice, the role of an M&A lawyer is often to play quarterback to various specialty groups. In any given transaction, there may be labour/employment law issues, tax issues, IP issues, environmental law issues, anti-trust/competition law issues etc. The corporate lawyers have to coordinate and synthesize the advice from such specialist teams and reflect it in the terms of the main transaction documents.

    Ultimately, as an M&A lawyer clients look to you to find solutions. So, thinking on your feet and problem-solving are two crucial skills that a lawyer must possess.

     

    At Davis Polk, you are working on some challenging and highly complex M&A transactions, especially in relation to India & China. Can you tell us about this experience?

    Working at a firm like Davis Polk is a privilege. You work with extremely intelligent people on cutting-edge transactions. Much of my practice today is representing strategic companies or private equity funds in their acquisitions/investments in India, China and South East Asia. Foreign direct investment transactions in these countries are quite challenging to execute and there is always a higher level of risk. One has to be familiar with the local regulations and work closely with local counsel in the target jurisdiction to come up with a viable transaction structure. However, businesses in these regions are growing at exponential rates and the reward for patient and diligent investments can be quite high. These challenges make the work extremely interesting and serve as a great learning experience for a junior lawyer.

     

    You have practised law in Mumbai, London, New York and now Hong Kong. Give us some highlights of India practices at International Firms in USA, UK and Asia.

    Logistically speaking, many international firms have their India practices operated in Singapore, Hong Kong or London. The time difference between India and the US, makes it more difficult to service clients and negotiate with the other side during a transaction from New York or the west coast.

    However, law firms are ultimately professional service firms that are responsive to client needs. India practices at law firms are a good example of this. Firms have India practices only to the extent that clients are interested in doing business in India which is in turn dependant on prevailing economic conditions. It is difficult to sustain a practice solely on inbound and outbound transactions related to India and few firms will hire an associate to do solely India work. From an associate’s perspective, while working at an international law firm, it is important to branch out and be a general corporate lawyer with some India experience. If you want to practice solely Indian law, the place to do it is at an Indian law firm in India.

    There was a time when firms operated India practices outside of India in anticipation of the legal markets opening up in India, but that is not the case anymore as there is no clear indication that the market will open up. This event has been 2 years away for 15 years now.

     

    You have worked with two Top International corporate law firms. Tell us about the work culture of both law firms, their work-ethics, salary package and also comment on the diverse practice areas.

    Linklaters and Davis Polk are both extremely prestigious firms with extremely capable lawyers. They are also both very large organizations and it is impossible to generalize the culture. Both firms demand the highest levels of professionalism and also exhibit tremendous team spirit and work ethic. In terms of offices, magic circle firms tend to be larger and more international than US firms. But, both firms are full service law firms with top-tier corporate practices.

    At a magic circle firm, the first recruits are trainees and most associates were trainees at the firm. The training contract system is a very good start to a legal career. You rotate across departments for two years and that gives you the time to adjust to life in a corporate law firm and sample various practice areas. Coming straight from an Indian law school, this system is an excellent first step to take. A typical magic circle firms pays approximately GBP 40,000 to trainees and approximately GBP 60,000 to its associates (who qualify after two years of training).

    At most US firms, the first port of entry is a summer associateship at the firm between the second and third year of law school. This is much shorter than a training contract and is premised on the fact that by the time students finish their JDs, they are more polished and ready to start practising law. Because, unlike the LL.B. system in the UK, the JD program is a post-graduate program and law graduates are older and have often had some prior work experience. As a result, US law firms typically don’t recruit outside of the JD circuit and international students find it hard to break into the system directly, especially without a US LL.M. However, once you are able to break in the system, a first year associate at a top New York firm will start at US$160,000.

     

    What is your take on Corporate v. Litigation?

    I believe that practising litigation (as a counsel) in India can be challenging without the support of a mentor. It is difficult to get briefed as a junior counsel without that support and as a result, at a very crucial age in life, you may not have a steady source of income. If you have the financial means and the talent to overcome this barrier, then litigation can be a highly rewarding experience, especially in a place like Bombay where the tradition is for seniors to support juniors and mentor them. The actual day to day work is intellectually stimulating and you are an independent professional, not constantly answerable to a senior.

    Working at a corporate law firm offers you financial stability and can be less daunting to start with because you work as part of a team and are sure to be offered the training and assistance to grow. Also, corporate law often involves problem solving and over time, you can feel like you’ve help build something, whether it’s a company, a power plant or a new product. However, with that stability and sense of accomplishment, comes long, unpredictable hours of a stressful environment.

     

    Life at a corporate law firm can be very hectic at times. What is your take on work-life balance? How do you unwind?

    Life as a junior associate at a corporate law firm is indeed quite hectic and stressful. However, sometimes, it’s important to step back and look at the bigger picture. My wife is a doctor and she always reminds me, if nobody died or suffered physical pain, it’s a good day.

    Playing a sport has always been very important to me – it’s a complete escape from everything else. So, playing basketball on the weekends is almost a religious activity and I rarely let work come in the way of that.

     

    Any advice you’d like to give to young lawyers who hope to follow in your footsteps?

    While in college, it’s important to cultivate an intellectual curiosity and let that drive you. Do what you feel passionate about, stick with it and work hard towards it.

  • Somasekhar Sundaresan, Partner, J. Sagar Associates, on work of a transactional lawyer, responsibilites of a Partner, and his transition from Journalism to Law

    Somasekhar Sundaresan, Partner, J. Sagar Associates, on work of a transactional lawyer, responsibilites of a Partner, and his transition from Journalism to Law

    Somasekhar Sundaresan graduated in B.Com and then chose to study LL.B from GLC, Mumbai. He graduated in Law in 1996. He joined Times of India as an Assistant Editor in the Business Editorial section as a law student and had continued his work there for two and half years after graduation.

    With his experience in Journalism he moved on to the practice of law. His legal career began after joining work under Berjis Desai who was then a founding partner of Udwadia, Udeshi & Berjis. He worked at UUB as a partner and then moved on to his current role at J Sagar Associates, as their practice at UUB got merged with JSA.

    He started work as a port sector lawyer and later built up his practice in Securities Law and Financial Sector Regulatory at J. Sagar. It has been almost twelve illustrious years of his practice at J. Sagar, we have taken this opportunity to talk about a few very pertinent questions about the law and legal practice from his experience.

    We ask him about his:

    • Law school journey through GLC, Mumbai.
    • Work with Times of India and transformation from being journalist to a lawyer
    • Years of work experience in transaction, securities and the financial sector
    • Work at UUB and JSA as a partner and a core practitioner.
    • Necessary skills of a lawyer which can transform an Associate into a Partner

     

    Tell us a bit about your pre-college life as well as educational background. Did you have lawyers in your family?

    I have a Bachelor’s degree in Commerce, majoring in accountancy. I am a first generation lawyer. My father was a communications professional in the Tata Group while my mother is a major in English literature and a home-maker. I did not have other lawyers in my family.

     

    How did you decide to study law?

    I enrolled to study law because that is something I believe every human being should do. For me, the study of law was not really driven by a choice of career. Each one of us should be fully conversant with the rules of life, which is what law is. I got into journalism within months of enrolling for law, and thereafter my study of law was driven by the need to be a better-informed-and-more-legally-aware journalist. Over time, when things changed in journalism, I wanted to test my professional skills before it got too late. I thought I could always go back if the legal practice did not turn out to be good for me. I was lucky to meet the right person at the right time – Berjis Desai, now the Managing Partner of JSA. He is an extraordinary mentor, nurturer of human values and an open-minded leader who can promote, spawn and manage multiple lawyers without the slightest tinge of insecurity. His acceptance of my proposal to try my hand at law, and entrusting me with opportunities, was a motivating factor too, particularly when I was a complete stranger to the profession and to its noted and reputed members.

     

    Please share your law school experience at GLC, Mumbai. What do you think law schools, in general, can do to increase career-readiness among law students?

    GLC is an excellent institution and has given birth to many notable jurists who have served India’s legal system well. This ranges from the likes of Dr. B.R. Ambedkar to Mr. N.A. Palkhivala, and then to more recent alumni who sit or have sat on benches of many a high court and the Supreme Court of India. There was a sense of awe about the heritage when one walked into the college portals – to see Dr. Ambedkar’s name in the list of principals. GLC has had its challenges, of being a state-owned institution but some motivated faculty members and the students of the college keep its flag flying.

    When I studied law, a new national law school had been set up in Bangalore, and it had gained a strong reputation for its teaching infrastructure and the scale of its campus.

    GLC had two batches – one that would start very early in the morning until about 9:30 am and another that would start then and go on until a little around noon. Studying jurisprudential concepts so early in the morning, participating in moot courts, class debates and studying the library, marked the student life in GLC. I was part of the Legal Aid Clinic, and exposure to poor people without legal aid was an eye-opener component of the training.

    Study of law in Mumbai could be very solution-driven with pre-digested examination-oriented tools such as “Three Test Papers” and law summaries published in “Jhabvala” editions being in vogue. GLC was pretty much accepting of all – those who would choose these tools to getting past exams; and equally, those who would want to sit in the library and pull out case law and pore over treatises and come up with studied propositions.

    I think law schools today are already very “career-oriented”. The success of a law school is determined by the placement of its students in institutional employers or law firms. Some Vice Chancellors are focussed on getting star placements for their students and seem focussed on gaming the recruitment system. The relatively expensive fee for studying law drives students towards being focussed on money as a driver of career choices. The good students who get good placements in good firms and in institutional employers such as banks that pay large remuneration, are therefore becoming typical employees doing a day job that helps recover the considerable expense of getting educated.

    The practice of law is now less of a profession and more of a day job. Therefore, the law course resembles an MBA in more ways than one.

    I would, therefore, say law schools have to make some interventions to nudge the student’s mind slightly away from single-minded career focus.

    Law schools also need to engage with law firms and work out a reasonable institutionalised means of providing internships and practical training to students from varying backgrounds. It pains me to see the old-boy-network ruling the roost in internships now, just the way it did for the law as a career in the 1990s. Today, the entire process is very unscientific. Students are busy picking up internships with two or more firms in every vacation, gathering names of multiple law firms on their CV without any reasonable or realistic learning in that short time. For law firms too, such internships mean nothing, and truly the students gain nothing concrete spending just a few weeks in one firm. This clearly is an area that the profession needs to work on to improve matters for the state of the ecosystem.

     

    What were the biggest hurdles and challenges in your legal career in the first few years of graduation? How different would you say it was from those who had graduated a decade earlier?

    For about two and half years after I graduated, I continued working as a journalist. I made the shift late. This came with its package of challenges and hurdles. When I began, I had not truly spent a single day in a law firm even as an intern. Every challenge pushes one to realise one’s own inner strengths and helps in gaining confidence. I read old files and opinions voraciously. I read different types of agreements in varying situations.

    The Internet had become more widely available by then, and one could read agreements from across the world that were publicly filed with regulatory agencies. There are websites that provide so many precedents of real documents that have actually been executed by real parties in real-life situations. Therefore, the challenges were lower than what lawyers, say five to ten years elder to me would have faced when they had graduated.

     

    Please tell us about the transition from working as an Assistant Editor at The Times of India to working as a lawyer.

    The transition was tough and fun all at once. As a journalist, I used to focus on breach of trust by human beings, harming other human beings and the rest of society. The healthy scepticism expected of journalists played a major role in moulding my psyche, and I would treat everyone with distrust. Moving to practise law in real life taught me that one must presume bona fides in the conduct of other human beings. I realised that commerce can only occur when there is trust in one another, no matter how well one drafts the agreements that one signs. Contrary to popular belief about law and lawyers, real-life practice of law exposed me to a different dimension of human behaviour and I realised how truly trusting one has to be of others, and indeed be trustworthy, to be able to do well in the world of commerce. Accepting and acknowledging the pain of the counterparty is the only way one can bring about a reasonable bargain and balance of rights and obligations in transactions one handles as a lawyer.

    On the personal front, being an Assistant Editor in one of India’s largest newspapers brought with it a considerable reputation, recognition, and even fearsomeness. Chucking it all up overnight to start from scratch in a new profession required one to bring to bear one’s humility and abandonment of some delusions of grandeur that a powerful position tends to bring into one’s character. The transition was also eased by the fact that my “beat” as a journalist had been securities regulations. I had spent a lot of time and energy in understanding this area of law even as a journalist. Seeing the real impact of these regulations on businesses from close quarters as a journalist helped the transition to be a smooth one.

     

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    What were your responsibilities at Udwadia, Udeshi & Berjis? How did you move on to J. Sagar Associates later on?

    (Somasekhar worked at Udwadia, Udeshi & Berjis for the first four years of his legal career before joining J. Sagar Associates.)

    I had joined Berjis Desai who was one of the founders of UUB. He had told me that I should absorb as much as possible in my initial time and soon I would sink or swim along with my clients. He used to read all the drafts of the documents I initially wrote in that phase of my career. I learnt a lot from his revisions and corrections. He had his own style of handling inter-personal conflicts in aspirations among team members. Studying how he resolved them or even watched as they resolved themselves, helped me learn how to appreciate conflicting aspirations of other people.

    I began as a port sector lawyer and did a lot of work on container terminals managed by P&O Ports, a smart and commercially-savvy private ports operator led by an aggressive business leader called Captain Jimmy Sarbh. I learnt enormously from this relationship and it helped build my confidence. While I was earning my bread and butter from port-sector work, I also got many opportunities to represent clients in relation to securities laws, with appearances before the Securities and Exchange Board of India led by the then Chairman D.R. Mehta, and before the Securities Appellate Tribunal, then presided over by Mr. C. Achuthan, a remarkable judge. Each of these individuals was as compassionate as strict, and their treatment of cases I represented taught me a lot. My first very own client was the National Securities Depository Ltd., whose Managing Director C.B. Bhave, I had interacted a lot with as a journalist when he had been Senior Executive Director in SEBI. He reposed confidence and trust in me and encouraged me to focus on securities laws. He gave me my first “own” assignment, indeed trusting the firm I had joined, and me to do justice to his work.

    Over time, I got to build up the securities law practice thanks to the operational freedom that Berjis gave me. In 2002, Berjis met Jyoti Sagar of J. Sagar Associates. Their values and culture resonated so well that they decided to merge their practices. We were being wooed by other peer firms too, but the value fitment with JSA was wonderful, and remains so till date. Our team led by Berjis moved our practice into JSA, which gave us a national platform. At that time, JSA was present in Delhi and Bangalore, with a fledgling presence in Mumbai. We got a national platform to build on, and Jyoti, another exceptional human being, chaired the firm as a Founder while Berjis became the Managing Partner of the merged practice. Since then, it has been a long journey at JSA, a truly unique professional Indian law firm that has built and nurtured itself on certain core inner strengths to meet the typical challenges that any Indian law firm would face.

     

    What, according to you, are the skills required of an advocate aspiring to build a successful career in corporate law? How do we boost the faith clients keep on us?

    The first and foremost is to appreciate that the client is at the core of the practice. All that we do is linked to the existence of the client. Without the client, there is no practice possible, even in hard-core non-commercial litigation. Every lawyer should internalize the principle that the profession is not about himself but about the client. Yet, this does not mean pleasing the client against the client’s interests. This is a profession where you are paid to watch out for the client and tell him that he is wrong. Building this strength and the capacity to resist being a yes-man is the second critical skill that one has to develop. Third, it is important to build a pleasant and firm approach to negotiation. Be it litigation practice of transactional practice, being pleasant to other lawyers both within your firm and to those doing their job for your client’s counterparty, is a very important skill for success in law. When clients and counterparties see that you have a method to your approach and that you are not wasting time trying to win brownie points, they will enable you to succeed.

     

    When you see that a candidate you are considering to hire, is good at mooting, debating and has a few publications, how does it influence your decision?

    These are important skills because they would help me determine if the candidate is articulate, figure out how he thinks and what measure of professional circumspection he is able to bring to bear.

     

    How much noteworthy would you say CGPA is? Can work experience replace grades? Would you consider people who have worked efficiently but had a few repeat papers?

    Grades are merely a screening tool for entry into the profession. At JSA, we have never been big recruiters on campus in any case. To me, nothing can replace real work experience. One knows of academic toppers who are bad practitioners, and equally, of lawyers with unspectacular academic credentials having built enormous professional skills. This is not to say that those with academic proficiency are necessarily misfits for a good practice. One also knows of some delightfully academically-proficient lawyers, who are extremely successful and effective practitioners. If you are really good at your work, over time, it would show. After five to seven years in the profession, whether you had had a few repeat papers when you were in school would be irrelevant. Although, I must caution that the profession is headed in a direction that getting a good break into a career path would get increasingly difficult if you have repeat papers on the CV.

     

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    What are the skills that you look for when you hire lawyers under you? How do you reckon that law students should develop these skills?

    Apart from looking for the skills that I say above that lawyers need to have to succeed, I would really look for comprehension of core issues that are in vogue and the ability to connect the dots across different segments of laws and across practical factual realities. This is easier said than done. However, what I really look for is a strong emotional quotient. A lawyer is only as good as his emotional maturity. The intelligence quotient and intellectual capacity is to be taken for granted. The most intelligent lawyer who cannot handle others with compassion is of no value to me. Students should develop these skills by simply mingling a lot more with students from completely variant backgrounds and classes of society on campus. Travel and meeting people from around the globe is a critical contributor to emotional maturity.

    When you join a law firm, you earn a lot of money to enable travel. Whether you blow up your money over drinks every weekend or save something wisely to fund travel, is a matter of choice. When you meet people of varying background, you realise the commonality of dreams across humankind, and it will help break down prejudices. The alternative to travel is reading. Reading what others write exposes you to the same experience, and you gain from the story-telling by writers and are able to picture other people’s stories and relate them to your own. I would recommend a self-imposed mandatory quota of non-law reading hours per week, throwing in fiction for good measure.

     

    What all does a partner at a Law Firm like J. Sagar Associates have to do? What falls within the scope of your responsibility? Please tell us about a typical work day.

    A partner at JSA has to be a multi-dimensional personality to enjoy his work. He has to be able to connect with his team members and their aspirations. He needs to have the right balance between promoting everyone blindly to being so harsh that no one likes to stay back with him. The role ranges from developing trust in clients to be able to command work, to discharging his duties well, and to thinking about the welfare of his attorneys. Unidimensional lawyers tend not to do well at JSA.

    As the head of the securities law practice, I have to lead my team’s efforts in the practice and mentor teammates. I try to lead by example and help observant attorneys to learn by studying how I work.

    A typical work day starts early morning when the phone starts ringing with the Far East having gotten into work. It ends late in the night when the United States is getting neck-deep into the work day. On days when I have hearings at the Securities Appellate Tribunal, there is also a need to orient oneself before the hearing and there can be some uncertainty about when one would finish a hearing. Managing expectations of transactional clients in parallel can be quite demanding. Of course, one can make time for other interests to be accommodated within the work day, with some degree of social media exposure thanks to smartphones, but the profession can be highly demanding. The world normally just sees the glamourous side of the legal practice, choosing not to see the very hard work and effort that it entails to be able to buy the glamour.

     

    What is the transformation from being a retained partner to equity partner like? Are business development skills mandatory at such higher roles?

    A commercial firm at the end of the day has to run on commercial lines. It has to earn enough for the longevity of the institution and to continue to provide a financially secure environment for its stakeholders. Therefore, it is critical that a leader of a professional firm should have business development skills. If you cannot command the trust of existing clients for getting newer work, or the respect and trust of new clients, how do you run a practice? It is fallacious to think that one can be an equity partner without the capacity to be a thought leader in the market place. Therefore, one should develop the cutting edge skills of improving the command over other people’s trust in you, which is at the core of business development skills.

     

    When you accept interns under you, what kind of qualities do you look for? How do you say interns should go about their work so as to get noticed in a positive way in the limited time they have?

    I do not screen interns at all. JSA has an internship policy, and we have managed to build a professional HR policy towards internships. Increasingly, this has moved from the old-style of internship being a tool to please clients and stakeholders to one where we can derive value from human resources, and attract new quality talent for future leaders of the firm.

    First, interns should seek out a longer internship. Second, they should do so in advance. Even in this day and age, I get requests in May for internships in June. These are very difficult to accommodate in a manner that is of any meaning to the intern or to the firm. An ideal internship period would be of eight weeks. During an internship, the student should be a sponge and absorb everything that can be absorbed. Even if there is no specific work assignment that one is roped in, the access to a firm provides valuable access to how various professional work streams are handled – due diligence, research for opinions, contract-drafting, litigation filings etc. Interns have to seek to find opportunities to work and learn.

     

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    Tell us about the changes that occurred in your life after you became a partner. Did you ever feel that the workload had increased considerably? How do you maintain the work-life balance?

    The profession has become more and more demanding. The key to being a successful partner is in meticulously planning and working on making oneself redundant by building human resources and future partners who are worthy of clients’ trust. Shunning insecurity is a critical element to enable greater exposure of colleagues to clients and in building clients’ trust in one’s colleagues. Keeping an overall oversight of work delivery and quality is where a partner should focus on. Yet, gauging what the client wants in each situation and ensuring that the expectations are being met is a very important aspect of managing a practice. Even with all this, the workload can only increase, and one has to be disciplined about handling it.

    My work-life balance typically comes from writing my columns (weekly for the Mirror publications and monthly for the Business Standard) through the year, and more importantly from my travel both on work and on vacation. I ruthlessly take two to three weeks off annually without access to telecommunications so that I can recharge and re-balance myself.

     

    Your core practice area includes securities laws, mergers and acquisitions, and foreign investment in India. How do you keep yourself updated of the recent developments in the same areas of law?

    This is the era of information technology – it is not so difficult to find information on recent developments. Google alerts, RSS feeds and push services even from regulators can ensure that every recent development in your practice area lands up in your inbox every night. One has to keep the discipline of reading what needs to be read and ruthlessly sparing one’s eyeball time by shunning any reading of unnecessary stuff that digresses attention. The power of information technology makes the latter a challenge too. There is so much that social media throws in your direction that you have to be really disciplined in being discerning on what to read and when. This too is easier said than done.

     

    Please share a few words about your contribution to public policy in the financial sector.

    (As an active contributor to public policy in the financial sector, Somasekhar has been a member of organisations such as the High Level Committee to Review SEBI (Prohibition of Insider Trading) Regulations, 1992 and the Committee to Review Policy on issuance of Global Depository Receipts.)

    I am grateful for these opportunities. I have been lucky to have had excellent Chairmen in each of these committees – Mr. C. Achuthan for the takeover regulations, Justice NK Sodhi for the insider trading regulations, Justice B.N. Srikrishna on work relating to the Financial Sector Legislative Reform Commission, Dr. P.J. Nayak for the committee on corporate governance in the banking sector, to name a few.

    When you write law and policy, you realise how non-partisan one needs to be, and how one has to think of the larger interests of the nation and society. The law and policy govern multiple stakeholders, many of whom have conflicting objectives and desires. Good law is one that is easy to administer and respectful of the interests of various stakeholders. Working with this approach is also a big chance to think of the big picture in everything one does. It makes one a far more responsible professional.

     

    You’re also an Independent Director at Oxfam India. What has the experience been like so far?

    It is an excellent window of opportunity to do something concrete with the skills picked up in the profession. The lessons one learns at the Board of a well-run-and-intentioned NGO are invaluable. The exposure to professionals in the NGO space and their thoughts and ideas is a refreshing one. At the end of the day, any lawyer worth his salt is one who is conscious of the protections that the law affords to a people. Advocacy in the shaping of the law, enforcement of the law and indeed assistance in the governance of an institution are all complementary to a lawyer’s skills.

    For example, working with the Reserve Bank of India and the Government of India to secure approvals and shape India’s policy towards enabling Indian civil society and NGOs to respond to the calamitous earthquakes in Nepal has been a very rewarding experience. It is intellectually challenging as a matter of law and policy and at the same time, very satisfying emotionally for being able to add value to humankind beyond what one does as a normal commercial lawyer.

     

    What kind of effort should a young associate put into work to get appreciated? What distinguishes an associate with a partner when it comes to work?

    Attention to detail is the critical element. Research and insight into applicable law is a given. An associate who has basic diligent application to work would stand out. For example, one that weeds out definitions that are not used through a document, or non-capitalised usage of a defined term, cleans up repetition of an entire definitional phrase despite the term having been defined, would stand out for his attention to detail. On the other hand, an associate who does not pick these things up and merely reflects corrections made by the partner without uniformly pro-actively implementing the principle even in instances where the partner misses things out, would stand out as a below average resource.

    To me, the level of attention that an associate gives in a meeting or conference is also very important. If an associate takes no notes, behaves like a senior counsel, does not come back to you after a meeting with what is required to be done by the team, and instead waits to be told what to do, he would stand out as a below average resource.

    There are bright sparks who are really clued in, summarize what was discussed and what needs to be done and assist the partner to deliver value, and they have a bright future with me.

     

    Please tell us about the work environment at J. Sagar Associates. If a young associate commits a mistake or an error what course of action do you follow as a partner?

    We are considered to be a very benign and chilled-out workplace. To err is human and to forgive is divine. Of course, that does not mean I would not scream and shout when these human propensities in me are provoked. I have increasingly started focussing on teaching youngsters of my team about the specific mistakes they make in their draft documents rather than just clean up and correct the mistakes without investing time in explaining the mistakes. If mistakes are not picked out and explained, the young associates accept all the changes you make, and focus on delivery to the clients rather than learn about what went wrong and how to adapt the lessons for future assignments.

    A leader of the team should make this investment in the youngsters. Indeed, there are days when I could be perceived as being in a dangerous mood. I am told on those days my door is entered with trepidation. Yet, everyone in the team equally knows that my recovery from a temper tantrum is rather rapid!

     

    As a concluding message, what would be your suggestions to law students?

    Never lose sight of first principles of law. Every single time, go back to the first principles, the objects, intent and purpose of the law that you are handling, and you will never go wrong. Read the bare provisions of an applicable law every single time you consider a situation to which they apply. Do this every single time. Do not adopt the “boss is always right” attitude – it will not get you far and on the contrary it would erode the lawyer in you. This is a profession in which having your well-reasoned concurrence or dissonance is what is expected of you. Do not abandon reason at any time in your approach to the practice. “Because I say so” is one phrase that is alien to this profession.

     

     

  • Ila Haldia, Advocate, Supreme Court, on starting out with civil and criminal litigation at Supreme Court

    Ila Haldia, Advocate, Supreme Court, on starting out with civil and criminal litigation at Supreme Court

    Ila Haldia graduated from Government Law College, Mumbai in 2013. She has an enviable academic record and has an excellent series of internships at top law firms including DSK Legal, Trilegal, AMSS, Khaitan & Co., AZB & Partners etc. She started practising at the Supreme Court of India soon after graduation. She is currently practising general civil and criminal litigation at the Supreme Court under the tutelage of Dr. J.N. Dubey, Senior Advocate, Supreme Court.

    In this interview, she talks about:

    • Law school experience at GLC, Mumbai
    • Choosing litigation over corporate law
    • Practising at the Supreme Court

     

    What brought you into legal studies?

    Hi, I am Ila Haldia. I am currently practising at the Supreme Court under the tutelage of Dr. J.N. Dubey, Senior Advocate, Supreme Court. Unlike many, my journey in legal studies began quite unexpectedly. I was a science student and never considered law as a career option. However, while studying science, I realised that engineering was not my cup of tea and so I decided to look for other options. In the pursuit of looking for alternate options, I met many people from different professions and through this process, I met a few lawyers. Having interacted with these lawyers, I felt drawn to the profession since I was impressed by the kind of knowledge they possessed and their command over their thought process and so I decided to pursue law. My parents were supportive of this decision of mine and thought that law would be a career suitable to my abilities.

     

    Tell us about your years in law school. What made your journey with GLC worth it?

    To be honest, it took me a year to get used to GLC. Initially, I was a little lost and wasn’t sure whether I had made the right decision. But slowly, I started getting into the groove as law started rubbing on to me. In addition to law, I had some amazing friends and seniors who helped me through thick and thin. One thing that anyone studying at GLC encounters is the ubiquitous phrase: “GLC is like a buffet which serves the best of dishes but it is up to you to choose the dishes”. At first, I never quite understood this phrase, but now when I look back, I realise that GLC is quite like such a buffet. The curriculum at GLC gave us the freedom to shape our careers according to our own accord. We had all the options and guidance available but none of which was imposed. So it really came down to individual choices. Many used this freedom to nurture their careers the others used it otherwise. It is this sense of freedom and space that made GLC absolutely worth it and stand apart from all other law colleges!

     

    Which internships that you have pursued will you consider to be right at the top and why? Tell us about some interesting internship experiences.

    Interestingly, I have had internships at many big law firms, but to me the most memorable has been one at a small firm in Bombay. We were a team of 5-6 lawyers/law students and as such the work responsibilities were not differentiated between lawyers and law students and therefore it was a really good learning experience for me. I remember my very first assignment at this firm was to assist an associate in drafting a reply to a very complex 30 pages show cause notice from the customs authority. As luck would have it, the associate I was supposed to assist was caught up with other work as a result of which the responsibility fell on my shoulders to draft the reply. Upon reviewing the draft, my senior was very impressed with my drafting skills and rewarded me for having completed this difficult task all by myself without having any prior drafting experience. Thus, I learnt that it is important to keep doing whatever work comes your way, no matter how big or small. If one keeps working and keeps doing, he/she will find an area where his/her interests lie. So look for internships which provide you work across the platform and be ready to seize whatever opportunity comes your way.

     

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    Soon after graduation, you started practicing before the Supreme Court of India. Did you ever plan to join a corporate law firm? Do you plan to pursue litigation from now onwards?

    Somehow, at first every law student’s aim is to land the highest paying job and since such packages are mostly offered by corporate law firms the aim is to get into such law firms. I was also party to this type of thinking and in fact tried to get internships in all the big law firms in their corporate department. But slowly, as I got more involved in the “corporate culture” I realised that this was not my calling. There was always this uncertainty in my head regarding corporate law since it did not involve court work. So through this process of elimination, I decided to pursue litigation and was most fortunate to get the opportunity to work at the Supreme Court of India. However, I am not restricted to the Supreme Court only, I also appear before other courts and tribunals.

    As far as my future plans are concerned, I don’t believe in long term planning. My philosophy is to do what is in hand and let’s see where it takes me. Having said that, I do hope to start my independent practice in the coming future.

     

    What are you main practice areas? How has been your experience so far?

    We are into general civil and criminal litigation. The experience so far has been extremely enriching and has broadened my horizons. I have not only matured as a lawyer but also as an individual. Litigation has taught me to have a structured thought process, improvise and think on my feet.

     

    What is your workday like? Which would be the most memorable case you argued on?

    In litigation, there is a lot of work. From morning till evening the whole day is consumed in courtrooms and chambers. So one needs to be sure that they like the work and also the work environment or else it becomes overwhelming and stressful. There are times when we have to appear in court without having a complete idea about the case and these situations help in learning how to filter irrelevant information and how to improvise in front of the judge.

    There was an early hearing application which I had to argue before a three judge bench headed by the then CJI Justice Lodha. Usually, early hearing applications are only heard on the point of urgency and the merits of the case are not argued, however on that particular day Justice Lodha decided to hear the cases on merits and took all the lawyers, including me, appearing in early hearing applications off-guard. Since, my case was listed as item 9, I hardly had the time to read through the entire file and so when my case was called out it all boiled down to improvising and succinctly putting forth the arguments which ultimately helped me in winning the case. The profession requires one to think clearly and quickly which only comes with constant practice and observation.

    The best part about litigation is that there is hardly anything predictable except for the fact that you have to work constantly. Another memorable case that I have argued was one before the National Consumer Disputes Redressal Commission. The case related to claim of insurance by a bus owner, however, the said case had been dismissed in default and we had filed the restoration application after delay of 2 and half years! After 2-3 hearings of immense grilling, the matter was finally restored however, the same was dismissed on merits. However, the presiding judge acknowledged my hard work and made a mention of the same in the judgment itself! Thus, despite the adverse order against my client, it was an achievement for me since my hard work had been acknowledged.

     

    How necessary is it to have a mentor/guide to handhold a young lawyer while still in the formative years of litigation?

    It is extremely important to have a mentor in litigation. I couldn’t have come this far without my senior. There is so much to learn in practice that it can become overwhelming. Having a mentor gives one support and structure to the learning curve of a young lawyer. Making mistakes is inevitable and only a mentor can help in minimising and dealing with them.

     

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    What are the difficulties people face in their early days of practice? How is it turning out for you? How many years of hard work does it require to build a firm clientele?

    Initially, the responsibility of handling even a single case seemed overwhelming. I remember even drafting an entire petition seemed like a huge task to me but now with constant practice, the process has eased and now I am able to research the law, draft the petition and argue the matter in court. Same goes with arguing in court, initially it was terrifying to even take a ‘pass-over’ but now with passage of time and experience that initial hesitation has also vanished.

    A lot of people say that lawyers who don’t have a family legacy will find it very difficult to build a reputed practice. This may be true to some extent, but from what I have gathered, any lawyer who puts in even a reasonable amount of hard work is sure to go a long way in litigation. It may take some time, which may differ from lawyer to lawyer, but the hard work does pay off which is why there are so many successful first generation lawyers

     

    A lot of law students prefer corporate jobs over a career in litigation. What is your take on this? Is it better to work in the corporate sector for a few years before starting litigation?

    Well, I feel it’s a personal choice. If the interest of a law student lies in corporate law then by all means he/she should pursue it, however, I do not recommend seeking a corporate job only because of the perquisites that it offers. Initially it may be exciting but with passage of time, money does not bring job satisfaction which may lead to frustration. Many law students, do not opt for litigation/counsel practice because of low salaries. It is true that in the initial years the money is not as much in litigation but if one puts in a sincere amount of hard work then there is no looking back.

     

    What would be your parting message to law students who want to litigate just after graduation?

    As a lawyer in litigation, keep working hard and be patient. It takes years for a bamboo seed to start growing but once it shoots, the growth is exponential. So don’t get dismayed if the results don’t show. Have faith in your abilities and clarity in your thoughts.

    Also my message to all law students who are struggling to find their path, would be to just go with the flow and keep doing whatever comes your way and enjoy your college life!

  • Prachi Vijay, Associate Consultant, Ernst & Young, on law school, internships and work experience

    Prachi Vijay, Associate Consultant, Ernst & Young, on law school, internships and work experience

    Prachi Vijay is an Associate Consultant at Ernst & Young. She graduated from Government Law College, Mumbai in 2013. While in college, she explored various areas of law and has interned in several places including law firms such as DH Law & Associates and Ernst & Young, tax firms, consultancy firms and the Court. Soon after graduation she joined Intellistay Hotels Pvt. Ltd. as a Legal Executive where she worked for over a year before joining Ernst & Young. In this interview she talks about:

    • Law school experience at GLC, Mumbai
    • The importance of doing varied internships
    • Interning and working at Ernst & Young

     

    How would you introduce yourself? Could you please share a little bit of what motivated you to pursue law as a career?

    I graduated from Government Law College in 2013 and am currently working with Ernst & Young as an Associate Consultant. I come from a very small town where there are only three types of career options available- Government job, Medicine and Engineering. Anything apart of these is pursued only when you are not good enough to secure one of the three jobs.

    Not wanting to follow the conventional course and clueless about what to do, it was actually my late grandfather who motivated me to pursue law. While studying for 12th Boards, I was staying at my grandparents place. He kept on telling me how honourable the legal profession is. The seeds of legal studies were sown then. Consequently, I entered law school and by the end of first year, I was certain that this is what I was meant to do. So, what started as an experiment became a passion in no time.

     

    Tell us about your college life at GLC. What all activities did you partake in?

    Government Law College was an experience par excellence. Most of the times, students were involved in the co-curricular and extra-curricular activities. Committee meetings were frequent and it was there that the best friendships were made. Throughout the year, GLC holds a wide number of activities including moot court (national and international), debates, sports, study tour, guest lecture, etc. I was in the organizing team of most of the events that the college used to organise; Students Council ad hoc, Magazine Committee, Placement Committee, Alumni Association, to name a few.

    As far as academics were concerned, the practical exposure was immense. The classes would finish by 10:30 a.m. and I was interning full time throughout the year. So, whatever was being taught in class, I had already worked on them at the law firm where I was interning. The concept became clearer. I managed to inculcate theoretical as well as practical knowledge at the same time. This made studying easier and interesting. Five years passed in no time and voila! I was a lawyer already.

     

    What were your areas of interest during your graduation? How did you go about developing expertise and knowledge in these areas?

    My areas of interest were Company law, IPR and Arbitration and they still are. During my internships, I worked extensively on these areas. When you are in your 2nd year of law school, you are not taken too seriously and you end up photo copying, scanning and at the most researching, for the entire duration of your internship. So, I would go around the law firm asking people to give me work involving Company law or IPR or Arbitration. As a result I not only researched on the cases at hand but started drafting notices, giving legal opinions, making and filing trademark applications and drafting opposition.

     

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    What kind of internships did you do in your law school? Which internships will you consider to be right at the top and why?

    I am originally from Patna. The first time I came to Bombay was when I got admitted to GLC. So going back home for vacations were the only thing I looked forward to in those days. As a result, my first 2 internships happened back home.

    For 2 months, I interned with a Senior Advocate at Patna High Court, Mr. Keshav Srivastava. I learnt the basics there: Court proceedings, researching, etc. Also, it completely shattered the picture I had in my mind about the Court.

    My second internship was at a CA firm. It was a CA firm but it taught me the intricacies of taxation. As a result, my interest in taxation grew manifold and this helped me in getting an internship at a later stage at TLC, which is a taxation firm based out of Bombay which specialises in Tax litigation.

    However, the internships that played a major role in grooming me and preparing me for my legal career were DH Law & Associates and Ernst & Young. I joined DH Law when I was in my 3rdyear and was subsequently promoted from an intern to a paralegal. Consequently, I was there for more than a year and worked mainly on corporate law, IPR and arbitration. This internship by and far clarified the confusion of most law students: whether to pick corporate law or litigation.

    In the last year of my college, I started interning in Ernst & Young where I dealt with extant state, national and international laws. All in all, I explored almost all the areas of the legal field during my college years.

    I don’t come from a law background. So getting the first internship was difficult. I was dependent upon my grades in college for that. However, after much try once I secured the first one, all others followed quite smoothly.

     

    Did you find that your law school education had prepared you sufficiently for internships and your job?

    Law school is an experience in itself. In GLC everything is student driven. Whether you are organising an event or helping your seniors to get placed. Everything is taken care of by the student bodies which are headed by professors. All the execution work is handled by the students. From getting the bouquets for welcoming the guests at the event to going to law firms to invite them to take part in the placement program, everything was managed by the students. So, GLC ingrained in me a sense of responsibility. And the moment you become responsible and answerable for your work, half the battle is won. Practice years teach you the nitty-gritties of the legal field. But the basics, the concept, the root is learnt during the years of college.

     

    Did you learn any skills while interning? What are these skills and how did you acquire them?

    The top things that I learnt while interning were patience and how to work under pressure with stringent timelines without compromising on the quality of work.

    If you don’t have a legal background, the only thing that might help you in securing your first internship is a good CGPA.

    When you have contacts, it becomes easier to get into a good law firm for internships from the very initial days of law school. Having said that, contacts may land you into a good internship but whether the law firm is going to retain you or not depends upon your willingness to work hard.

     

    What do you have to say about mooting at law school and legal writing for journals?

    Mooting gives you a picture of what it would be like when you finally step into the legal field as a professional. It improves your researching and your ability to put your arguments in front of others. While mooting improves your verbal skills, legal writing improves your writing skill. Both of these are extremely important for your overall development as a lawyer. I cannot comment on whether they add bonus value to your CV or not but they certainly enhance your capabilities.

     

    How did your appointment take place at Intellistay Hotels Pvt. Ltd.? What worked for you in securing the job? What kind of responsibilities you were entrusted with?

    I’d interned in all possible areas-Court, Law Firm, Consultancy, Tax firm. The only area that was left to explore was a Company. The initial years are the only time when one can experiment and explore so when I got to know that there is a vacancy in a hospitality company for legal post, I jumped at the opportunity. I applied directly through their website and after the telephonic interview, I was called for personal interview. Within a week’s time, my appointment got confirmed and I had to join the following week. I worked there for a little more than a year. I was mainly responsible for the day to day legal issues of the company; for e.g.:- drafting and reviewing legal documents like lease, Contracts, MOUs, etc.; hospitality laws and regulations, liaisoning with various departments like Municipal Corporation, Excise Department, Police, etc. for acquiring various licenses including liquor license, trade license, etc.

     

    What would you suggest a fresh law graduate should do to hold spirit and utilise the opportunities available during the first year of graduation?

    The initial years of a law graduate play the most important role. You are no longer a law student and neither are you an established legal professional. This is the time to learn, to grasp, to get involved and make the most of it. Once you are well equipped with the work at hand, success becomes inevitable.

     

    You currently work as an Associate Consultant at Ernst and Young. What prompted you to make this choice and what made this shift possible?

    I worked at IntelliStay Hotels for over a year. It will always be special because it helped me become independent. While I was very happy with the work entrusted in IntelliStay, when an opportunity came along from EY, I knew I had to take it. The basic aim is to grow. The initial years are the best time to grow.

     

    How did your appointment at E&Y take place?

    I had already interned at EY for almost a year during college days. One of my seniors approached me when there was vacancy. While recruitment happens through the traditional method in EY, since I had worked there before, I only had to go through the telephonic interview. The recruitment was smooth.

     

    We would love to hear about your work profile. Being an Associate Consultant, what are your responsibilities?

    My basic work at EY is to help the clients in executing their plans and business. A normal work day starts with a cup of tea and a briefing of what a particular client wants. Once briefed, time lines are set and everyone gets to work. At EY, no one hovers over your head watching whether you are working or not. Everyone is just concerned about the quality of work and its completion within the stipulated time. So, responsibility comes right from the junior most post. You are responsible and answerable for your own work.

     

    What have been your failures and successes? What were the biggest hurdles and challenges in the first few months?

    Shifting from a Company (where the work is limited to the matter concerning the company) to a Consultancy (where work revolves around the requirements of the client and you are expected to work on a number of issues at the same time) is in itself the most challenging task. The first few months at EY were difficult for the simple reason that people here are very particular about providing nothing but the best service to clients and for that you are expected to go beyond your comfort zone. Fortunately, my seniors were always there to help. The healthy work environment made this transition very easy.

     

    What are the primary professional ethics you follow while at work? How do you deal with mistakes or errors?

    EY has a code of conduct and you are not expected to breach it. Client’s information is confidential and in no circumstances it can be discussed with people that have no business. Social media is to be handled with responsibility. There is absolutely no compromise on the integrity of the firm. At EY, there is hardly any scope for error or mistake.

     

    How do you keep yourself abreast with latest industry news and trends?

    Social media today is so strong that it is not at all difficult to reach the nook and corners of latest industry news.

     

    Many young lawyers at corporate firms complain about the work being too exhausting, and that maintaining a work-life balance is just not possible. Could you share any tips on this?

    It’s all about the priorities. Once out of law school, the priority is to work in a good firm or a company. The basic idea is career growth. During the initial years, the question of whether one would be able to maintain work-life balance should not seep in. Once the initial years are done and dusted with, there is always a choice to work at your own terms. The career growth in legal field is comparatively fast if you are willing to give your 100%. When I got my first job, I was willing to look beyond the work load and the time schedule. I just wanted to learn and work. I compelled my bosses to give me tasks that no one was willing to take. Within no time, I became indispensable to my company.

    There can never be a work-life balance. You either work or you manage your life. Work is my priority right now too. Five years down the line, may be life will be my priority and I’ll work accordingly.

     

    What is the procedure to apply for an internship and recruitment at E&Y? What do they look for in their prospective employees?

    Recruitment at EY happens through the traditional way of interview.

    It’s a three stage process-

    1. a) shortlisting your CV;
    2. b) telephonic interview including HR round; and
    3. c) personal interview.

    EY looks for people who are responsible and responsive and are willing to take charge of things.

     

    Is there any other tip you would like to give to our budding professionals?

    Patience is a virtue. I was rejected by a number of recruiters before being finally employed. And a year and a half later, I am at a happy place. I look back and I thank them for not hiring me. There is no substitute for hard work-whether you are litigating or joining corporate. Just be passionate about whatever you are doing or don’t do it at all.

    Like Charles Bukowsi said: “Find what you love and let it kill you.”

  • Ayesha Nair, Senior Manager-Legal, Hexaware Technologies, on work experience

    Ayesha Nair, Senior Manager-Legal, Hexaware Technologies, on work experience

    Ayesha Nair graduated from Mumbai University in 2004 with a B.LS. LL.B. (Hons.) degree. While in college, she worked as a paralegal trainee with Bilawala & Co., after which she joined Sony Pictures Entertainment as Legal Counsel. Thereafter, she joined Hexaware Technologies Ltd. as a Legal Executive and she currently works as Senior Manager-Legal. In this interview she talks about:

    • Studying at Mumbai University
    • Working at Sony, Hexaware and Lehman Brothers
    • Internship and recruitment tips

     

    How would you describe your legal education? Did your legal education prepare you for the reality of legal practice?

    The legal education I received is the foundation on which my future is built. I would definitely state that the perception of the profession and the education system has changed over the period of years. Students have been keen on exploring other areas of law falling outside the purview of general practice, like corporate laws, intellectual property experts etc. My legal education gave me a better understanding of the actual application of the legal practice in my chosen profession. Having said that, I would also say that one does learn a handful while on the actual job.

     

    You have graduated with B.LS. LLB.(Hons.) degree from Mumbai University in 2004. Tell us about your law school experience. Share some highlights from your college days that shaped you as a lawyer.

    I did the five year law course which was a new option for aspiring lawyers during that time. I would state that it not only allowed me to complete my education a year earlier than what it would have taken me if I did the three year law course after B.A., but also gave me 5 wonderful years in the law college. The Moot courts were an excellent way of motivating students with actual court room scenarios and building their confidence essential for the profession. One lecture and Professor from Government Law College one would never give a miss, I am sure all students from GLC will agree with this one, Prof. Pithawala – Contracts & Company laws. I think this was one subject that gave me insight and focus to pursue corporate law as a profession today.

     

    You started your career at Sony Pictures as Legal Counsel and later joined Hexaware Technologies as a Legal Executive and currently work as Senior Legal Manager Legal there. Please tell us about your journey till now.

    As a matter of fact, my first job was in 2002 while I was completing my law education. I worked as a paralegal trainee with a legal firm – Bilawala & Co., pursuant to that in 2004 I joined Sony Pictures Entertainment as Legal Counsel. However there were not too many legal or complicated issues to handle here. I got my appointment in Hexaware through a Manpower placement agency and was initially appointed as a Legal Executive. The journey from a Legal Executive to being a Senior Manager – Legal meant hard work, sincerity to the profession, responsibility and most importantly the focus to reach where you want to. Subsequently, as the Company progressed, so did my career and I continued to deliver my job with dedication, commitment and customer relations.

     
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    You’ve been at Hexaware for nine years. What would you say has contributed towards your long stay at Hexaware?

    As a matter of fact, I did have a break of a short period in my career at Hexaware. That was when I explored working for a very brief period on the customer front with Lehman Brothers, but the job didn’t raise my adrenalin as much as in Hexaware. The customer front ending, the numerous challenges and the independence to work were all missing. Fortunately for me, Hexaware were unable to get a suitable replacement and they called me back. I was only too happy to rejoin. So in the real sense, if we don’t consider my four months short stint with Lehman Brothers, I will actually complete 10 years with Hexaware.

     

    Tell us what your typical work day is like. What kind of work and responsibilities do you deal with as Senior Manager – Legal? How has the journey at Hexaware been so far?

    We have a very small team of three legal professionals. With the technical title of Senior Manager – Legal, I functionally head the Legal Dept here. I report to the CFO. My colleagues are competent in their work. Basically the Legal team examines the terms and conditions of all contracts that the Company enters into around the world. There are penalty clauses, arbitration arrangements and certain conditions which are stipulated by different customers. Each contract is to be studied separately from the legal angle. Often we are required to directly interact with the Client’s Legal Department to arrive at mutually acceptable conditions. Apart from contracts we look into various other legal issues related to employees, property, intellectual property and litigations to name a few.

     

    What type of cases do you deal with? At Hexaware, how often is legal work outsourced? Tell us about a case that you are particularly proud of.

    We primarily deal with corporate laws and contracts, litigations are very rare. Fortunately, we have not lost any contract due to inability to resolve differences with clients and have never endangered the interests of the Company.

    Legal work is outsourced on case to case basis on rare events. I perceive each customer as a critical account and closure of the contracts with each of them brings a sense of pride in me, so it is really difficult to just name one.

     

    What are the primary professional ethics you follow while at work? How do you keep yourself abreast with latest industry news and trends?

    Protection of my employers interests within the legal parameters of the country. I keep myself abreast with the latest industry news and trends through the internet and various legal news letters. For Client counselling, understanding what the customer wants should be the primary focus.

     

    What has been your strategy to deal with errors and mistakes? How would you advise a young associate to deal with them?

    Errors and mistakes do happen in all walks of life. However in the legal profession one has to be extra cautious. If a lawyer is defending a person in Court on a murder charge there is no room for error or mistakes. It could make a difference of life versus death. However in the Corporate world there is one question that the fresher has to learn and retain with him/her during their entire career. Ask yourself that if you were the owner of the Company, what you would have done in a difficult situation that is presented before you. You will always get the correct answer.

     

    What is the procedure to apply for an internship or recruitment at Hexaware? What are the qualities which they look for in one and his/her CV?

    The best approach is to contact the HRD of the Company and ask for permission to submit the CV. One needs to also explain the type of job that he/she is looking for. For freshers, it will obviously be as a trainee only. The CV has to be neatly typed with all the relevant information. A more comprehensive CV is required only when the person is applying for a Senior post.Normally a fresher would needs to keep a watch for vacancies advertised in the newspapers. Manpower placement agencies may not be a good source of employment for freshers.

     

    What do you think differentiates a good intern from the rest? How can an intern make a positive impression in the limited time they have? What skills would you say is a sine qua non for an intern who wants to excel at work?

    A good impression is created by your presentation. Dress smartly, have a neat and logical CV and keep abreast of the news around the country. The fresher needs to read newspapers every day and watch News programmes on TV. This not only sharpens the mind, but also impresses the interviewer that he is looking at a person who knows what he is talking about. Also never give false information or use guesswork. If you do not know the answer or have not understood the question, they should clearly say so. Speech is also important. As the interview will be in English, the fresher should be proficient in the language.

     

    What do you cherish most about the experiences you’ve had over the past ten years?

    I cherish and value the growth and the challenges that I have lived through each day in the last ten years. The new challenges with a new day give my excitement levels  a new boost.

     

    Any plans for an LL.M abroad? What are your long term goals?

    My focus for the last four years have been on my son and office. I haven’t got the time out, but yes, in the future I wouldn’t mind exploring some other options. One area that interests me is Marine Law.

     

    Lastly, what would be your message for our readers?

    Stay focussed, believe in yourself and anything is achievable.

     

  • Ronak Thakkar, Associate, Jyoti Sagar Associates, on the first year at a top law firm

    Ronak Thakkar, Associate, Jyoti Sagar Associates, on the first year at a top law firm

    Ronak Thakkar is currently an Associate at J. Sagar Associates, Mumbai. He graduated from Government Law College, Mumbai, and simultaneously earned his Company Secretary degree. His internships include Tata Motors Limited, P&C Legal and J. Sagar Associates, Mumbai. He has also completed a Diploma Course in Cyber Law from Asian School of Cyber Law, followed by the Advanced Certificate Course in Foreign Trade, International Business/Trade, Marketing and Dispute Resolution from the Indian Merchants’ Chamber. In this interview he talks about:

    • Academics and co-curricular activities at GLC, Mumbai
    • Internship, recruitment and work at corporate law firms
    • Pursuing a C.S. degree along with LL.B studies

     

    Our readers consist of law aspirants, law students and young lawyers. How will you introduce yourself to them?

    Firstly, thank you for giving me this opportunity to share my story. This interview is going to be an experience in itself as I am usually the listener and the one who asks questions.

    I rocketed to Earth as Ronak Thakkar. I’m a corporate lawyer, 23 years old, currently working in Mumbai (Bombay, for those who prefer it that way). I am passionate about law, live life with an open, accepting mindset and am always up for a high five.

     

    Tell us a bit about your childhood and pre-college life as well as educational background. Do you have lawyers in your family?

    I was blessed with a very good childhood and was fortunate to have caring and supportive parents. I was a last bencher at St. Pius X High School, an all-boys school. As you’ve guessed it right, the energy and the adrenaline rush were really high.

    Honestly speaking, school has been one of the best phases I have lived through so far. I guess the feeling is the same for all of us. I have learnt a lot, made many friends and it has definitely been the foundation stone to the positive attitude with which I stand in front of you guys today. About my educational qualification, I am a law graduate from Government Law College, Mumbai.

    I am a first generation Superlawyer. I also don’t have a surname that is well-established in the fraternity.

     

    In India there is bit of resistance towards legal education even now. What motivated you to choose law as a career?

    I don’t personally feel that there is any resistance towards legal education now. I think students in India today are more than happy to take up law mainly because law offers you many opportunities to do your best in your chosen interest areas. The Government is doing a lot to promote legal education and make it more accessible. In GLC there is about 50% reservation for students who belong to eligible quotas like SC/ST, sports, cultural etc. and these opportunities are being utilised.  I don’t think there is any resistance.

    As far my motivation to take up law and pursue law as a career is concerned, it was simple. I could relate to it more than anything else and definitely relate to it more than I could relate to K4Fe(CN)6 + H2SO4 + H2O = K2SO4 + FeSO4 + (NH4)2SO4 + CO.

    According to me law helps you to find solutions in real life situations and is a very practical subject. I felt that by doing law I will be standing for a purpose/cause and will work towards achieving it. Therefore I took it up.

    Curiosity is the word. Law is interesting; I felt I wanted to know more. I was sure that I will be better as a lawyer than a dentist or an engineer. It wasn’t very difficult to take that decision then.

     

    How did you get through to GLC, Mumbai?

    I was a science student before I took up law. I was weak with numbers, never got my chemical equations right. I had realised that I had failed to make the right choice. I was about to waste a year because it was a bit late by the time I decided to do law and GLC was the only college I was able to apply to.

    While going through the admission process, I learnt that in order to get through GLC, your HSC percentage is taken into account and you are not required to give CLAT which was motivating considering that I had not given the CLAT.

    I am very happy that I got through and was a part of this excellent institution.

     

    Which subjects did you enjoy during your qualifying degree? What about co-curricular activities?

    I enjoyed Company law, Banking laws and Constitutional law. I contributed to the Magazine Committee of GLC in my first year.  I moved on to learn German and Japanese in my second year as learning new languages and networking are my hobbies.

    I felt that much of the law related to people and their dealings with each other, and it was crucial to understand thought processes and society to be able to work towards solving social problems. Therefore, I took up voluntary community service at the Indian Red Cross Society, Mumbai and was a part of some of their programs.

    I became a part of AIESEC, Mumbai in 2011, a branch of the world’s largest youth run organization, AIESEC International which gave me an opportunity to network and facilitate student exchanges with partner countries. It was a very positive experience as AIESEC always welcomed new ideas, promoted teamwork and leadership. As an AIESEC Organizing Committee member for “Balakalakaar 2011” I worked towards empowering under-privileged children and was instrumental in giving them a platform to showcase their talents.

    In my final year of law school, I was an active member of the GLC Students Council, the apex student body where I worked towards organizing events and promoting various initiatives for the welfare of college.

     

    Tell us about the places you have interned at. Did you plan your internships throughout law school?

    I did not plan my internships. As a part of my C.S. coursework, I had to do a compulsory internship for which I approached ICSI, my C.S. Institute to know how to go about the internships. Based on their guidance, I applied to companies and procured my first internship at Tata Motors Limited where I did a mix of corporate secretarial and legal work.

    As I discovered that I am more inclined towards corporate and transactional legal work, I asked some of my friends to suggest good law firms where I can learn more. After doing a bit of research online, I was able to contact the H.R. departments of these firms and submit my resume for their consideration. That’s how I procured my internships at P&C Legal, Mumbai and J. Sagar Associates, Mumbai.

     

    How relevant did you find your law school education with the kind of work you were required to do at law firms?

    I found it quite relevant. A law school curriculum is designed to cover everything that a law student ‘must’ know before he/she starts practice. Working on a transaction/matter will teach you more about the practical application of law to transactions/matters. But from an academic standpoint, I feel the education was very relevant to prepare one for the practicalities.

     

    You also managed to pursue the Company Secretary course. Tell us how did you manage it with college?

    In my first year, I saw a few students from my college applying for it. So I walked up to one of them and asked them about the course. I was told it is “core corporate law”. So I went up to www.icsi.edu to find out more and was convinced to pursue it.

    Initially it was more like following the rat race but as I discovered that I was more interested in corporate transactional work, I continued with the course and it was very helpful academically as it had important insights on subjects like mergers and acquisitions, securities law etc. which were not covered by my law school curriculum but were otherwise very relevant.

    As regards, how I managed to do it with college, I have a secret formula which is – “Be humble, hungry and the hardest worker in the room”.

     

    Soon after graduation, you joined J. Sagar Associates as an Associate. How did your appointment take place? How was your interview? Please give our readers some tips to nail a law firm interview.

    I applied to work with J. Sagar Associates after I completed my internship. My appointment was based on a review of my performance as an intern with the firm. My interview was a formal one and was focused on confirming my resume and ensuring that I knew what I was talking about from a “technical” standpoint.

    The interview was also about finding out if I am the right fit for the position or culture at J. Sagar Associates.

    I haven’t faced many interviews, but if I were to highlight some important points for applicants to keep in mind while applying for a job, they would be:

    Research about the law firm where you wish to apply.

    Make an effort to really understand what the firm’s expectations are of you and whether you will be in a position to meet them.

    Know your career narrative well. The career narrative must be easy to remember and retell. It should meaningfully link your past successes to your near and long-term development needs and suggest the kinds of assignments that would help to achieve those objectives It must hang together with the right combination of honesty, humility, and personal flavour.

     

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    How tough were the first six months at your workplace?

    They were not tough or difficult. J. Sagar Associates (JSA) has a very positive, supportive and friendly work environment. I have helpful team members and well-informed, accessible partners who guide me so that I can deliver my best. This is actually very encouraging and has motivated me to learn more and get better on the job.

     

    Tell us about the nature of work you’re entrusted with and what a typical day is like. What is the most challenging aspect of your job?

    I am entrusted mainly with transactional and advisory work. My practice areas are private equity, mergers & acquisitions, banking & finance. I also work on general corporate commercial matters and am involved in drafting, negotiating and reviewing a variety of commercial and financing contracts.

    In my view, the most challenging aspect of my job is time management. There are deadlines to matters and it is important to be responsive to clients. When you are on multiple active transactions it becomes a bit challenging to balance between long work hours and one’s personal life.

     

    Do your dual qualifications complement each other in terms of your work?

    Yes to an extent. The qualifications have helped me to understand concepts better and gain much needed academic exposure before facing a practical transaction/situation.

     

    There is a phenomenal obsession amongst law students with maintaining a very high CGPA. How important according to you is this in securing a job in a top tier law firm?

    My personal view is that a high CGPA is definitely an important reflection of your academic performance, but it is not the only parameter on which your capabilities to be a part of the top tier law firm are adjudged.

    If your CGPA dropped because you were involved in extracurricular activities due to which you weren’t able to devote sufficient time to your studies in a particular semester, that doesn’t mean you are not a performer. But it surely means that you are a multitasker!

     

    You did a Diploma course in Cyber Law from Asian School of Cyber Laws. Tell us about the course structure and the utility of pursuing such Diploma courses beside studies.

    The course gives you knowledge about the information technology laws of the country and how e-commerce is regulated in India. For more information on such courses please visit: asianlaws.org. The Asian School of Cyber Laws is doing a really good job. There are tutorials conducted to make you understand the subjects in detail, the study material is helpful and exams are open book.

    I personally feel that the IT law practice is still in its developing stages in India. And from what I foresee, we are being increasingly driven by technology in our personal and professional lives with each passing day. It is naturally important to know how the law relating to technology is and will be regulated.

     

    You have also pursued an Advanced Certificate course in Foreign Trade, International Business/Trade, Marketing and Dispute Resolution from Indian Merchants Chamber. What was this course all about? Do you think pursuing this kind of professional courses help?

    India holds an integral part and has an important position in the global economy today. Naturally, there are going to be many cross border transactions and opportunities coming to our doorstep. As a lawyer, one will be required to work/advise on these transactions.

    The Advanced Certificate course in Foreign/International Trade course gave an overview of export-import and commercial transactions, documentation and more importantly about the foreign trade policy and the Foreign Exchange Management Act. These are key regulatory areas which will be very important to take into account if you were working or advising on a cross border transaction.

    These subjects were not covered in sufficient detail in my law school curriculum and therefore I felt the need do this course.  You can know more about the courses offered at the Indian Merchants Chamber website.

     

    Where do you see yourself five years from now? Would you consider going for an LL.M. abroad?

    I don’t make five year plans. I have my fingers crossed and hope that I should be doing well five years down the line.

    Yes, I might consider doing an LL.M if I manage to get a scholarship.

     

    What would be your parting message to law students who want to get placed in a law firm?

    I believe that ‘effort motivates accomplishment’ and if you work towards something you want in the right manner, you will achieve it. There is a Superlawyer in each of us. Find what you love to do, and just give your best.

    Firms will be more than willing to welcome you if you are good. People at firms are sweet, trust me!

    I am reachable at LinkedIn and Facebook in case anyone needs to get in touch. I take this opportunity to wish law students all the very best and I will be the happiest to know about their success stories.

     

  • Nandini Kumar, Associate, KAD Legal Consultant on experience in Media and Entertainment Law

    Nandini Kumar, Associate, KAD Legal Consultant on experience in Media and Entertainment Law

    Nandini Kumar is a practicing Media, Entertainment and Sports lawyer. She graduated from Government Law College, Mumbai in 2012. During law school, she participated in various co-curricular activities including moot court competitions, debates, and conferences. From her law school days, she was interested in IP laws and therefore, pursued internships accordingly. Her diligence paid off when she received a job offer from KAD Legal and she currently works as an Associate there.

    We asked her to share her experiences and strategies she used over the years. In this interview, she talks about:

    • Studying Law from GLC, Mumbai
    • Work opportunities in media-entertainment and sports law
    • Work profile at KAD Legal

     

    Most of our readers are law students and young lawyers. How will you introduce yourself to them?

    Hi, I am Nandini Kumar. I am a practicing lawyer with a special interest in media-entertainment and sports law. I pursued the B.L.S LL.B. degree offered by Government Law College, Mumbai after finishing my secondary education at Delhi Public School, R.K. Puram.

     

    How would you describe your time at GLC, Mumbai? What are the co-curricular activities you took part in GLC?

    Being a part of the oldest law college in the country was a great learning experience.

    Since my school days, I have been involved in various social service activities and consequently, I chose to be a part of the Social Service League and Rotaract Club in college. I was also the Director of the Community Services, Rotaract Club in the second year.

     

    What sort of internships did you do while in law school? How instrumental were these internships in helping you decide what field of law you wished to specialize in?

    I have been interning since the first year of college. My first internship was with Senior Advocate of the Supreme Court, Mr. Vijay Hansaria who got me involved in a trademark litigation which made me inquisitive about intellectual property laws. Thereafter, I have interned at Krishna and Saurashtri, Walt Disney, Puneet Aggarwal (Advocate of Delhi High Court), Hindustan Coca-Cola Beverage Private Limited, Nishith Desai Associates and KAD Legal. These internships gave me a platform to understand the nuances of the legal profession. Most of my internships were related to intellectual property matters and drafting agreements and since I was blessed with amazing mentors at my internships, I think they played a pivotal role in my decision to pursue a career in the non-litigation media-entertainment space.

     

    Do NLU students have an edge over the non-NLU students?

    NLU students may have an edge over the non-NLU students when it comes to placements, however, I feel that each individual and their interest in learning the tricks of the trade are essential for kick-starting the career and continuous growth thereafter.

     

    You began your professional career with KAD Legal Consultants and currently works as an Associate there. How did you secure your appointment?

    I was offered a PPO at KAD Legal Consultants as I had done repetitive internships at the firm during and after the third year of college. I have had a wonderful learning experience since then at the firm.

    The firm recruits associates based on the requirements of the firm. In the past, either the final year interns have been absorbed or experienced associates have been engaged after a series of interview, both oral and written.

     

    What does your current work profile at KAD Legal Consultants consists of? Tell us a bit about the firm, your typical workday and the overall work/life balance.

    My current work profile consists of trademark prosecution, media and entertainment which primarily involves drafting and negotiating agreements for production houses, music composers, directors, actors and other personnel of the Indian film and television industry, persons/ companies in digital media and sports persons. The firm is a boutique law firm with an expertise in the intellectual property and securities law related matters.

    Typical work day starts at 9:30am and begins, without fail, by making a to-do list followed by drafting agreements, trademark work, client interaction and reading to update myself with the current affairs. Regarding work/life balance, just after graduation, my father gave me a book with various quotes and life lessons in relation to work/life balance. Two quotes out of the lot made a huge impact on me were “Life is not about work, office and clients. There is more to life. You need to socialize, entertain, relax and exercise. Don’t let life be meaningless” and “A person who stays late in office is not a hardworking person, instead he/she is a fool who doesn’t know how to manage work within the stipulated time. He/She is inefficient and incompetent in his work”. Initially it was difficult, but I have made best endeavours to finish work on time in order to have the luxury of having a work/life balance.

     

    What brought you towards Media and Entertainment Law?

    I come from a non-legal background, I had zero exposure to law before law school but I have grown up watching movies and it was extremely fascinating for me to understand how law protects the makers of movies, how brands are safeguarded, how law prohibits people from copying and manufacturing designs of a fashion designers. Intellectual property laws which form the basis of media-entertainment law made me understand these aspects and that’s why I chose to be a media-entertainment lawyer.

     

    Tell us something about this new and emerging field of law that you practice?

    Media-Entertainment and Sports law practice is niche and upcoming field of intellectual property law. What makes it interesting is that is still evolving which requires constant learning and interpretation of law.

     

    What has been your strategy to deal with errors and mistakes? How would you suggest a young associate to deal with them?

    As humans we all make mistakes. My strategy has been to accept the mistakes I have made, learn from the errors and avoid repeating them. I would advise young associates to own up to the mistakes and bring it to the attention of their senior as soon as possible. Also, have zero tolerance towards repetition of same mistakes.

     

    Tell us about a case that you are particularly proud of. What steps do you take to prepare for a difficult case?

    As an intern at KAD, I had assisted Mr. Kiran Desai (the Founding Partner) in drafting an endorsement agreement of a celebrity and was very excited and proud to see the hoardings of that endorsement.  My parents got particularly excited to see my name in the credits of a movie, for which the firm had provided legal assistance.

    As a media lawyer, I need to prepare for negotiations. To prepare for negotiations, I make it a point to understand the client’s needs, follow client instructions and know the agreement being negotiated inside out. I also try to have legal and logical reasoning for most of the negotiations that are put forward.

     

    Does KAD Legal Consultants take interns? Please tell us the procedure. What do they look for in their prospective interns and employees?

    Yes, KAD Legal does take interns. Law students can apply for internships by sending their resume along with the covering letter to contact@kadlegal.com. The firm believes in giving everyone a platform to learn. Prospective interns and employees are expected to be eager to apprehend the media-entertainment and sports law and the practical aspects of the related business. They are also expected to have clarity in thought process and expression.

     

    Many lawyers would say that the actual learning takes place in the years of practice. How far would you say it is true? What was the case in your situation?

    Actual’ learning does come with practice and also experience. The laws are the same for everyone. The practice and the experience provide the capability of applying and interpreting the law in the relevant situation that the client’s face. The practice and the ability to use the experience distinguish a “senior partner” from an “associate” and also a “good lawyer” from a “lawyer”. In my situation, I think I have also grown as a lawyer with time and have started identifying issue points better.

     

    Many law school students aspire to secure a job. What do you think most are doing wrong, from your observations?

    In today’s age, I don’t think there is anything wrong in aspiring to secure a job. It is important to understand, during the course of job, if the work excites you enough to want to learn and grow else it’s the waste of time and energy both of the employee and the employer.

     

    Lastly, what would be your parting message for our readers?

    Be open to learning and exploring. Think and apply your mind to every situation that appears before you. Especially, to the students who intend to intern, don’t consider any assignment given to be small or irrelevant. Good luck. 🙂

  • Tanmay Patnaik, Associate, Private Client Practice, AMSS, on an LL.M from Fordham and experience in Modelling

    Tanmay Patnaik, Associate, Private Client Practice, AMSS, on an LL.M from Fordham and experience in Modelling

    Tanmay Patnaik graduated from Government Law College, Mumbai. He received the USC Gould School of Law LL.M Scholarship in 2010 and pursued an LL.M in Banking, Corporate and Finance Law from Fordham Law School, New York. He is currently an associate of the General Corporate Practice Team at Amarchand & Mangaldas & Suresh A. Shroff & Co.

    Most amazingly he also partook in modelling assignments for many big brands such as Cadburys, Samsung, Vodafone, etc. and most prominently as the poster boy of Limca. He also had the opportunity to act in the movie ‘Wake Up Sid!’.

    In this interview he talks about:

    • Taking time out for modelling
    • LL.M from Fordham Law School, New York
    • Scholarship from USC Gould School of Law
    • Private Client Practice at AMSS

     

    Given that most of our readers belong to the legal fraternity, how would you introduce yourself to them?

    I would introduce myself as a ‘trust’ed legal advisor. I am presently a member of the Private Client Practice Team at Amarchand & Mangaldas. The team consists of estate and trust law specialists who have years of experience in advising high net-worth families on a host of matters including succession, estate planning and family governance related matters. I am also a member of the Amarchand Japan desk which is assigned to work on general corporate transactional and advisory matters catering specifically to our Japanese clients.

    I am also an expert in the field of Art and antiquities law. An extrovert by nature, I’ve never believed in defining the boundaries of what a lawyer can or cannot do.

     

    How did you gravitate towards law? Why law and not engineering or medical studies?

    The formative years of my life were spent in the company of the sons and daughters of bureaucrats and judges. The topic of law was ingrained into every dinner table conversation. I was fascinated and truly taken in by the subject. Since math and sciences were never my cup of tea, narrowing down my career choices was that much easier. I’m honestly glad there’s a pen in my hand rather than a scalpel!

     

    Do you think being from a non-NLU has ever proved to be a hindrance for you? What has been your experience?

    Personally, it has never been a hindrance to me as I joined Amarchand immediately after completing my LL.M. from Fordham.

     

    How was your law school experience?  Were you engaged in any co-curricular activities?

    My law school journey has been an interesting one. In the first year of law school, I was honestly a bit lost. I soon found my feet and became very active in the Students Council and the Moot Court Association. I was to become a post holder in both committees for the next 4 years. I was also an active participant in moot court competitions throughout my law school tenure, securing two golds and a silver at the national level.

    However, all this while, I had already decided to break out of the mould of the typical law student and do something different. I had chosen to dabble in the world of acting. Every lawyer has theatrical tendencies brewing in them and I just decided to stir mine. By the end of the fourth year of law school I had managed a fairly decent acting portfolio of print ads, television commercials, music videos and even a role in a Bollywood movie. I soon reached a point where I had to choose to follow through with law or dive into acting full time. It wasn’t easy to drop something that I had invested a fair amount of time in, but I understood that an acting career was fraught with uncertainty. The night I decided to give it up, I decided to work on my LL.M. applications. There was no looking back then.

     

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    You have been featured as the poster boy of Limca! Please tell us more about your career in modelling, how did it start out, and your present involvement.

    I got my first modelling assignment by chance. A close friend of Mr. Piyush Pandey, who is the Executive Chairman of Ogilvy & Mather India had met me over a family dinner and recommended my name for a print ad which required a fresh teenage face. The people at O&M got in touch with me, I auditioned and 4 weeks later my face was plastered on billboards across the city! I was only 17 at the time and and the feeling was overwhelming. I was soon getting alot of casting calls for print ads and television commercials. By the fourth year of law school I had shot for over 30 top end brands including Limca, Colgate, Cadbury, Samsung, Vodafone, 7Up, Bajaj and Nike.

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    I also got the opportunity to travel to Dubai, Mauritius and Kuala Lumpur for music videos and commercial shoots. It was a good breakaway from the humdrum of regular student life. However, it wasn’t always bright lights and easy money. My biggest take away from the world of acting and modelling was learning how to deal with rejection. For every acting assignment I bagged, I was probably rejected for 5 others. This really helped me grow as a person. My last project was a character role in Wake Up Sid which was exciting because I got to be a part of fairly successful Bollywood movie.

    tanmay-patnaikI haven’t disconnected myself from the world of media altogether though. Last year I was featured and interviewed for the fashion magazine ‘GQ’ . The feature was on style conscious professionals in India donning the sharpest suits. I was later informed that I was the first Indian lawyer to get featured in GQ!

    It was interesting because in my own little way I had stayed in touch with the field of media and fashion. Just driving home the point that no matter how hectic life in a top law firm can get, you can still dive into other things.

     

     

    You went to pursue LL.M from Fordham Law School, New York. How did the whole experience turn out to be?

    New York was a game changer. It is truly the city where dreams are made and broken. It is a city which tests your mettle. I had visited New York before and was familiar with what the city had to offer. My time at Fordham taught me to be disciplined, patient and sincere in my efforts. The law school campus is located in the heart of the city and is always bustling with that unique New York City vibe. People often say that an LL.M. has no value for Indian students looking for a job in India. I beg to differ because in my opinion the learning does not start and stop in the classroom. It goes well beyond. Leaving networking aside, it is the softer aspects of the entire LL.M. journey which really equips you for what lies ahead. With your family thousands of miles away from you, you tend to push your boundaries of what you are capable of and this is where your levels of maturity (personally and professionally) start to peak.

    tanmay-patnaik-4The city of New York is like no other. It pushes you to the extreme in every sense. New Yorkers truly value their time and they also respect yours. Located in the heart of the city, being at Fordham afforded you the opportunity to socialize with your peers and other professionals on a regular basis.

    As an LL.M student, it was important that I made the most of the networking opportunities that the city had to offer. This wasn’t restricted solely to lawyers but individuals in the field of media, advertising, corporate finance, investment banking and private equity. There was always something to do, something to explore and people to meet. Being in the city that never sleeps, there was plenty to do once our classes were done and over with.

     

    Please tell our readers about the application procedure and other requirements like CGPA, internships and recommendation letters.

    First and foremost, it is vital that you identify why you want to apply to a particular school (faculty, program, location, etc.). This will help you think through a host of other questions which follow. Your statement of purpose must be an honest representation of yourself. Marketing yourself is well and truly acceptable, but misrepresentation most certainly isn’t. Maintaining a good grade is a must but restricting your achievements to the classroom isn’t the best way forward. Whilst long term internships and strong recommendation letters are an added bonus to your application, it is important that you try to stand out from the crowd.

     

    You have received the USC Gould School of Law LL.M Scholarship in 2010. Did your scholarship provide full funding for your LL.M course?

    The USC Gould Scholarship for LL.Ms is a merit based scholarship which does not require a separate formal application. Awards are typically offered in the amount of 10% to 50% of the cost of tuition and the student is notified upon receiving admission. Accordingly, when my admission letter arrived, I was pleasantly surprised to learn that I had also received a 50% scholarship award.

     

    How did you decide on a specialization in Banking, Corporate and Finance Law? What motivated you?

    I was drawn towards the practice of corporate law ever since I interned with AMSS. The internship was for a period of six months. During this time I was fortunate enough to work under some of the finest corporate lawyers in the country. I had also interned with senior counsels and public prosecutors in the past but I felt that the corporate law environment suited me best.

    I chose Fordham Law over Cornell, Georgetown, George Washington and USC because it not only had an excellent corporate law faculty but it also offered me a chance to study corporate law in one of the financial capitals of the world. Having Professor Richard Squire (who previously taught at Harvard) and Professor Sean Griffith (a former editor of the Harvard Law Review), both celebrated educationists in the field of corporate law, was the icing on the cake. So it was never a spontaneous decision. I had done my homework. The one year I spent at Fordham was invaluable. When I finally graduated, it wasn’t just a degree I was taking home, it was an experience.

     

    How did your recruitment at Amarchand & Mangaldas take place? How far would you say your LL.M experience was instrumental in this opportunity?

    I applied directly to Amarchand & Mangaldas when I returned to India and I was fortunate enough to hear back from them. An interview was set up with Mrs. Vandana Shroff and it went off quite well. I had graduated from Fordham with Latin Honors and this may helped me build my case. The LL.M most certainly gave me the confidence to hold my own.

     

    You are presently working in the Private Client Practice (PCP) team and have been associated with Amarchand for the past 3 years. Please tell us about your areas of practice.

    Our Private Client Practice is based on decades of experience in advising promoter families, high-net-worth individuals and entrepreneurs in relation to structuring and holding their wealth and family businesses, especially in a taxation and succession friendly manner. The team has been handpicked by Mr. Shroff himself and confidentiality lies at the core of everything that we do.

    The services we offer are bespoke to each client’s needs and include amongst other things:

    • Estate and succession planning, including preparation of Wills and Codicils; providing probate and executorship services;
    • Establishment of private family trusts (which may include private trustee companies, professional trustees and/or protectors, as desired); on-going advisory services for established domestic and offshore trusts;
    • Restructuring of existing promoter / family holdings in a tax efficient and succession-friendly manner;
    • Creation, implementation and monitoring of family governance structures, including drafting of family constitutions and vision statements;
    • advice on corporate governance and business structuring from the perspective of family governance, and incidental advice on all corporate matters;
    • Advice on family settlements and partitions;
    • Family dispute resolution either through arbitration, mediation, and/or litigation; and
    • Risk management and regulatory advice, including compliance with securities laws, takeover regulations, exchange control laws, liaising and dealing with regulators (especially R.B.I. and S.E.B.I.), as required.

     

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    People often complain about the highly skewed work-life balance at the top law firms. How do you maintain your work-life balance?

    In any top corporate law firm there are going to be patches of heavy workload. It’s a natural phenomenon and that’s how markets work. The earlier you come to terms with that, the more at ease you will be. However, if you’re perpetually stuck to your desk, you’re doing something wrong. I think at the end of the day it’s upto the individual to make the most of his/her day and the environment he/she is in. I try to start my day early and hit the gym as often as I can. Weightlifting has been a stressbuster since I was in law school. At the end of the day, I try to disconnect with work and connect with my loved ones, being my parents, my beautiful wife and my pet cocker spaniel.

     

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    What would be your message to our young readers who want to join a corporate law firm in the future?

    Joining a corporate law firm is an excellent choice but I would recommend keeping your expectations in check. Harvey Specter and Mike Ross are works of fiction! That’s not how law firms function. As a first year associate in any top law firm, you can expect long working hours and a heavy workload. Therein lies the challenge you must overcome. There will also be moments when you will feel disillusioned but the key is to remain patient and see it through.

  • Shalaka Patil, Senior Associate, Nishith Desai Associates, on work in Dispute Resolution and LL.M from Harvard

    Shalaka Patil, Senior Associate, Nishith Desai Associates, on work in Dispute Resolution and LL.M from Harvard

    Shalaka Patil graduated from Government Law College, Mumbai in 2009. She started her legal career as an Associate at Bharucha & Partners. Thereafter she went on to pursue Masters from Harvard Law School. She has also been a Rajawali Fellow at the Ash Centre for Democratic Governance, Harvard University, John F. Kennedy School of Government. Thereafter she worked as a Foreign Associate at Pestalozzi, Zurich. Currently, she works as a Senior Associate at Nishith Desai Associates and her main practice area is Dispute Resolution.

    In this interview, she talks about:

    • Law school experience at GLC, Mumbai
    • Choosing to pursue higher studies over job
    • Bagging the Rajawali Fellowship
    • Work at Nishith Desai Associates as a Senior Associate

     

    How did you decide to pursue legal studies?

    It was fortuitous. I wanted to become a journalist since I had been writing for a number of publications in Bombay from the age of 16. I thought I’d specialize in law so I could report niche cases. But once I enrolled in law, I never looked back!

     

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    Did you take part in moots while at GLC, Mumbai or indulge in academic legal writing? Do you think that these activities should be left to the discretion of students or made mandatory?

    I don’t think anything should be mandatory in law school other than your curriculum and avenues that allow you to test your analysis skills. Some people prefer mooting while others like writing, law counselling or projects. I did a few moots until my third year (such as ITAT and DMH) which really helped in engaging with a legal problem and honing my research skills. From the 3rd year though, I wanted to focus on legal writing and getting as many quality publications out as possible.

    I worked with this aim in mind and I also joined the college Students’ Council and Law Review committee. I participated in and won a few legal essay writing competitions as well during this time. In my view, the work that went into research, critically thinking through and defending problems through legal writing went a long way in building a strong foundation during my formative years. I would recommend it to law students who want to pursue a career in academics or even law firms. Mooting helps you think on your feet, writing helps you take a step back and think through the entire problem and give it your own perspective / defence.

    Other than this, I’d say doing a broad variety of internships helped me eliminate what I did not want to do and focus on areas that interested me (even though this area was quite extensive then). So all through law school I worked largely with disputes firms (I started at Bharucha as a trainee and before that I had interned at other law firms as well in Bombay). In addition, I was keen to gain some experience in the area of public policy as well and accordingly I worked at the Indian Parliament with an MP, at a think tank in Delhi and interned at the Law commission as well as an NGO. All of these opportunities gave me a first-hand experience of how the field really works and how policy translates outside of what I had read.

     

    Right after graduating, you worked for a year at Bharucha & Partners as an Associate and then went for LL.M. Why did you decide to go for higher studies?

    I wanted to study international arbitration and public law. I knew this right from my second year at GLC and I was determined to pursue this goal single-mindedly. The LL.M. was a means to study at a premier institution in an international environment (and one to which I had had limited exposure until then.) I also knew that other than teaching me the nuances of international arbitration and providing me with an excellent network of professionals and academicians, I would also be growing as a person with an exposure to best practices from around the world. The LL.M. proved to be all these things and more.

     

    Tell us something about your LL.M year at Harvard Law School. How did this influence your career?

    It taught me a number of things I know today and love about international arbitration. It gave me the opportunity to work with international law firms. It introduced me to the writing of experts such as Gary Born, Martin Hunter, Jan Paulsson and an opportunity to meet many of these stalwarts. I also studied and learned to view dispute resolution itself as a field outside of the traditional approach of Bombay High Court litigation that I had known until then. I was introduced to (and now love) investment arbitration and the world of Bilateral Invest Treaties. As a student, I was always interested in international law but knew that working in the field has limited opportunities. International commercial arbitration and investment arbitration allowed me to marry my interests of international law with commercial dispute resolution through arbitration.

    At Harvard I took very unique courses such as “Disputes System Design” where we studied ways of customising and designing dispute resolution systems for work places or companies keeping in mind their problems. I also took the popular ‘negotiations workshop’ in the spring semester where we negotiated through a series of problems whether local or international. Through this I was learning the new language of dispute resolution which was as important to me as court briefs and arguing.  My other interest was (and remains) public law / policy and I had the opportunity to engage in this as well through courses at the Kennedy School on the US Congress and law making.

    Needless to say Harvard is a place where at any given time a number of activities are going on and it is a melting pot where one gets to listen to various significant people and interact with leaders across various fields. I think this multi-disciplinary approach has really shaped my thinking as a lawyer.

    Lastly, not everything was nerdy and I did go out a lot too and met people from various countries and with cultures very different from mine!

     

    You were a Rajawali Fellow at the Ash Centre for Democratic Governance, Harvard Kennedy School.  Could you tell us about the experience?

    Kennedy School was a phenomenal experience. My research was focussed on political accountability at the Indian parliament. I interacted with a number of other MPP and MPA candidates. One really fun experience was a class I took with Professor David King on campaigning in the US. Here we studied about campaign finance, super PACs and even campaigned for a local election in Boston where one of the candidates was from HKS. The previous year I had done a class on US Congress so this was a good follow up from there. In any case, I am always keenly following new developments in world politics (the Middle East conflict being my current area of interest) and this class was a stepping stone.

     

    Currently you are working as a Senior Associate at Nishith Desai Associates. How has that experience been?

    I work in the area of disputes (with a focus on arbitration including international arbitration). NDA has given me the opportunity to work with a number of clients across various fields such as infrastructure, oil and gas, private equity and the service sector. It has deepened my understanding of business in these sectors and given me a flavour of trial work (my absolute favourite) since we run our arbitrations independently mostly. At NDA, I started working at the Delhi office and then moved to the Bombay office. Thus, I have had the opportunity to work at various courts other than the Bombay High Court right from the Supreme Court to trial courts in Delhi. NDA has an outward looking focus since a large part of its clientele is international. This is something I always wanted from my career. I was also seconded for a short time to Singapore to another top Singapore law firm which was also a fantastic experience. Having run a few international arbitrations at NDA with institutions such as SIAC, I envision this area of dispute resolution only growing in the coming days.

     

    What’s a typical day at work like? How do you strike a balance?

    A typical day is usually very busy with urgent deliverables, client calls and hearings and sometimes court work. But the rush of deadlines is what makes it exciting. But one has to just put one’s head down and power through the work. Long hours and lost weekends are a part of the process but as lawyers we all know what we sign up for so when you get some free time you should take it wholeheartedly!

     

    What do you feel makes an intern stand out and is very important for him to do to have a chance of getting a call back or even a PPO?

    Hard work, the ability to do a thorough job, thinking through questions and excellent research skills. It helps if you have read the latest decisions in your area of interest and are abreast with the latest developments.

     

    What would be your message to our readers who are budding lawyers and law students?

    Enjoy the process, don’t sweat the small stuff, think big and give it your all.

     

  • Sonal More, Global Legal Counsel at an MNC talks about Corporate Law, Higher Studies and LPOs

    Sonal More, Global Legal Counsel at an MNC talks about Corporate Law, Higher Studies and LPOs

    Sonal More graduated from GLC, Mumbai and thereafter had worked as an in-house counsel at places like Spykar Jeans, Pangea3 and currently at Firmenich (a global leader in perfumes).

    Even as a Global Legal Counsel at Firmenich currently, she has taken time out to pursue the MBL programme from NLSIU, Bangalore. In this interview we ask her about:

    • Importance of learning a foreign language
    • Work at an MNC like Firmenich
    • Pursuing the Masters in Business Laws from NLSIU

     

    Please tell us about yourself. What were your reasons for taking up law?

    I belong to a closely-knit Maharashtrian family in Mumbai. Born, brought up and educated in our financial capital, Mumbai. I have always been passionate about art; the freedom to use colours with no boundaries mesmerized me, contradictory to a lawyer’s profession where rules are the key to our survival. Raised by two teachers, reading was inculcated in us right from childhood. My interest in law began when my father gifted me my first novel, Sidney Sheldon’s Rage of Angels, which was based on an American Criminal Defense Attorney. That was my first step towards law. With time, I started reading articles on prominent Indian lawyers and our legal system. I met one of the criminal defense attorneys for guidance and decided I had to find my way in the legal fraternity somehow; so I commenced my law course with Government Law College, Mumbai. Coming from a non legal background, it was difficult to understand which avenue to take, and after 2 years of initial trial and error in my internships I finally found my passion in contracts.

     

    You have an LL.M and a Postgraduate Diploma as well in Intellectual Property Law. Please tell us how you decided to pursue the diploma also.

    I was introduced to Intellectual Property Law, when I was struggling to decide which area of law I should be focusing on. Being new to the topic, I enrolled myself with National Law School, Bangalore for my Postgraduate Diploma to get more insight into Intellectual Property which helped me simultaneously to prepare for my final year law exams where IPR was my specialization. I pursued LL.M after completing the Post Graduate Diploma; I felt LL.M would give me in depth understanding in comparison to a diploma.

     

    You also completed a Diploma in Cyber Laws from the Asian School of Cyber Law in Pune. Please comment on the quality and structure of the course. How much practical knowledge did you gain from it?

    The course is designed for beginners and to get basic knowledge as to what comprises of Cyber Laws. It is automatically presumed that Cyber Law essentially means Information Technology Act and nothing more than that. This course helps to understand that Cyber Law is much more. The structure of the course is very concise and appropriate for basic level understanding. The course helped me immensely while drafting, negotiating and understanding IT concepts in software license agreements. For someone who is working on software license agreements, this course is highly recommended.

     

    You are currently pursuing Masters in Business Laws (MBL) from NLSIU, Bangalore. It is said to be one of the toughest postgraduate law courses in India with a very low pass percentage. What would you say about the quality of the course material?

    I couldn’t agree more that it is indeed the toughest postgraduate law course, at least amongst the ones I have appeared for. My preparation is mainly based on the NLS course material, for any recent updates to the regulations NLS provides additional notes. I would still recommend research on internet for additional information on updates. The material provided by NLS is very elaborate and easy to understand.

     

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    After completing your studies, you started working at Emmay HR Services Pvt. Ltd. as a Legal Assistant. What is the state of HR Departments in big and small companies?

    Emmay HR which is now Randstad India, is a recruitment company so impetus on HR policies was a given. The role required me to understand the different categories of employments, namely permanent, temporary, staffing and contractual. After being a part of various setups and sectors, I realized that there are pros and cons in big and small setups. In my view the HR departments in smaller companies are more connected to the employees and have better visibility on the employee concerns. Bigger companies have robust systems in place which makes daily activities / functions smoother for sure, but at some occasions lack the personal touch till an issue is brought at the forefront. That being said, the most compliant, organized and connected HR teams in my experience are found in a factory setup. Given the number of regulations and statutory requirements, a factory needs to follow, in terms of labourers/ workers; the HR team manages the HR function and to a certain extent statutory function for the organization.

     

    You then went on to work at Pangea3. How did you secure your appointment? What is an average day of a Senior Specialist like?

    Honestly, like any other law graduate I was not really sure of joining or even interviewing with an LPO at the time. LPO had just stepped in the legal industry at that time and we had no idea how and what the company looks into. A recruiter had reached me several times to consider Pangea3 (which was then not associated with Thomson Reuters) and after having multiple conversations, I finally decided to give it a try and that proved to be a right decision.

    In my role as a Senior Specialist, I functioned more as an extended team member of in house counsel teams for different companies. I was a part of the Corporate Team and more specifically the Contract Drafting Team. Amongst several projects I worked on as a Contract Drafting Attorney, I also worked on some Contract Abstraction projects. Simply put, Contract Abstraction is creating a summary or a snap shot of the executed contract, for the company to refer to. These summaries help the company to keep track of expired contracts and the provisions that were agreed on before; thus giving an insight into the contract without having to read the whole document. An average day as a Senior Specialist would comprise of contract drafting, reviewing and negotiating agreements, depending on the clients we cater to and if on a contract abstraction project, we would have specific targets of reviewing particular number of contracts; pretty much similar to the day of a non litigation lawyer.

     

    After a year and a half, you switched to Hindustan Unilever Pvt. Ltd. How can one make his presence felt in a large company like HUL? What was your work profile like?

    Unilever is a brand that everyone would like to be a part of, and when I got the opportunity I could not resist it. My profile was more of Indian litigation and contracts, where I had to co-ordinate with Advocates and counsels for the court cases and prepare documents. I wanted to try something different than my previous roles, so I had decided to move from a completely non litigation profile to a litigation profile, however after a few months in the system and attending court proceedings I realized it was not my interest so I had decided to return to non litigation. In any company for that matter, be it large or small, it is difficult to make your presence felt. In larger companies, the opportunities to shine are less frequent as you may have to wait a long time to be recognized if you missed one chance but then again if you show your skill you will succeed. I always keep in mind a message one of my seniors had told me “If you are not at the table, you are on the menu”.

     

    Currently, you work at Firmenich Aromatics India Pvt. Ltd. as a Legal Counsel (Global). Please describe your job profile for us.

    My role is primarily focused on drafting, reviewing and negotiating global agreements for all divisions in the organization, ranging from software license agreements, sale agreements, purchase agreements, et al across the globe. As an In House Counsel, I also look into company policies, their compliance, preparing training programs for the teams across all functions and partnering with the business teams to ensure adherence to policies and legal requirements. On an average day, I could be negotiating contracts with companies based anywhere in the world or discussing legal provisions with the commercial teams.

     

    You also hold an Advanced Diploma in Spanish from Instituto Hispania, Mumbai. Does the knowledge of an extra language give you an edge over your peers?

    Being born and brought up in Mumbai, it becomes a part of your characteristic to know at least three languages, which served as a foundation to learn languages quickly. I had chosen Spanish as I felt everyone at the time was focusing on French and I wanted to do something different.

    Knowing an extra language definitely gives you an edge; it opens up different avenues for you as an individual, and exposes you to a different culture. For instance, if one completes all levels of a foreign language, he/she could be an Indian lawyer who can work on a Spanish Contract without the assistance of a translator.

    Although I had to limit myself to three levels due to time constraints, basic proficiency in Spanish helped me immensely when I worked with Latin American clients and peers; and proved to be a training ground for me to deal with foreign accents. I do not think there is any specific foreign language that I would recommend for a law student, however if a student wants to work with European companies, French would be an ideal choice. Learning an additional language will always help you as a lawyer or even otherwise.

     

    You have only worked in the in-house legal department of companies. Why did you never try for a law firm job or a career in litigation?

    In my earlier days of law school, I had tried working for a litigation lawyer and after a month I realized that my interest did not lie there. So I tried interning with a law firm, which functioned as an extended arm of the in house counsel team as it focused on few clients at the time. That structure intrigued me. As a lawyer in a law firm, I was more focused on the letter of the law with no or limited access to the business or the commercial side of the company and I wanted to understand the business more closely, so I chose to work as an in house counsel.

     

    It is believed that the work of an in-house counsel is restricted compared to that of a law firm lawyer but the latter has less (or no) work-life balance. Do you think this is true?

    It’s a common misconception; in no way is the work of an In House Counsel restricted. I feel quite the contrary, as an In House Counsel you are forced to think out of the box and consider real business scenarios. You can no longer sit on the sideline and merely state the law, now you are a part of the decision making process and have a say in commercial provisions. As an In House Counsel, we have to wear two hats, one of a lawyer and the other of a commercial person. It is our responsibility to understand the business and ensure that the company complies with the legal requirements and also meets its commercial targets. An In House Counsel in the true sense is a business partner; attuning oneself to understand the business needs to meet targets is a task which requires business acumen and applying your legal knowledge as a lawyer, which does require us at times to burn the midnight oil and sacrifice holidays. That said, I think work-life balance is a personal choice, whether you are a part of a law firm, a company or working with a litigation lawyer, if we really want to do something we either do it or make excuses. My personal guide to maintain work life balance is Mr Narayan Murthy’s (co-founder of Infosys) letter to his employees on the subject.

     

    What must a law student keep in mind when wishing to pursue a career in corporate law? Is a degree like CS or MBL important for this field?

    While pursuing corporate law, a law student needs to keep an open mind. It is not essential that one can pursue a career in corporate law only in companies, one could gain in depth knowledge also by being a part of a LPO. So I would not restrict one’s aspirations to any specific sector of companies. An additional degree is always helpful, depending on the individual’s interests and future goals. If working as a corporate lawyer or understanding corporate law is the goal then MBL is the course for you, however if the intent is to ensure compliance, statutory related work, one should consider CS.

     

    Lastly, what message would you leave for our budding lawyers?

    From what I have learnt in the last eight plus years in the fraternity, I would suggest interning in different setups, litigation, law firms, companies, LPOs, et al. Today lawyers are more than just litigation lawyers, and subject matter experts. We are moving towards the new age, where lawyers are entrepreneurs and business oriented. Choose the area you like without any presumptions and prejudice. If you are passionate about what you do, you will create a niche for yourself.