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  • Somasekhar Sundaresan, Partner, J. Sagar Associates, on work of a transactional lawyer, responsibilites of a Partner, and his transition from Journalism to Law

    Somasekhar Sundaresan, Partner, J. Sagar Associates, on work of a transactional lawyer, responsibilites of a Partner, and his transition from Journalism to Law

    Somasekhar Sundaresan graduated in B.Com and then chose to study LL.B from GLC, Mumbai. He graduated in Law in 1996. He joined Times of India as an Assistant Editor in the Business Editorial section as a law student and had continued his work there for two and half years after graduation.

    With his experience in Journalism he moved on to the practice of law. His legal career began after joining work under Berjis Desai who was then a founding partner of Udwadia, Udeshi & Berjis. He worked at UUB as a partner and then moved on to his current role at J Sagar Associates, as their practice at UUB got merged with JSA.

    He started work as a port sector lawyer and later built up his practice in Securities Law and Financial Sector Regulatory at J. Sagar. It has been almost twelve illustrious years of his practice at J. Sagar, we have taken this opportunity to talk about a few very pertinent questions about the law and legal practice from his experience.

    We ask him about his:

    • Law school journey through GLC, Mumbai.
    • Work with Times of India and transformation from being journalist to a lawyer
    • Years of work experience in transaction, securities and the financial sector
    • Work at UUB and JSA as a partner and a core practitioner.
    • Necessary skills of a lawyer which can transform an Associate into a Partner

     

    Tell us a bit about your pre-college life as well as educational background. Did you have lawyers in your family?

    I have a Bachelor’s degree in Commerce, majoring in accountancy. I am a first generation lawyer. My father was a communications professional in the Tata Group while my mother is a major in English literature and a home-maker. I did not have other lawyers in my family.

     

    How did you decide to study law?

    I enrolled to study law because that is something I believe every human being should do. For me, the study of law was not really driven by a choice of career. Each one of us should be fully conversant with the rules of life, which is what law is. I got into journalism within months of enrolling for law, and thereafter my study of law was driven by the need to be a better-informed-and-more-legally-aware journalist. Over time, when things changed in journalism, I wanted to test my professional skills before it got too late. I thought I could always go back if the legal practice did not turn out to be good for me. I was lucky to meet the right person at the right time – Berjis Desai, now the Managing Partner of JSA. He is an extraordinary mentor, nurturer of human values and an open-minded leader who can promote, spawn and manage multiple lawyers without the slightest tinge of insecurity. His acceptance of my proposal to try my hand at law, and entrusting me with opportunities, was a motivating factor too, particularly when I was a complete stranger to the profession and to its noted and reputed members.

     

    Please share your law school experience at GLC, Mumbai. What do you think law schools, in general, can do to increase career-readiness among law students?

    GLC is an excellent institution and has given birth to many notable jurists who have served India’s legal system well. This ranges from the likes of Dr. B.R. Ambedkar to Mr. N.A. Palkhivala, and then to more recent alumni who sit or have sat on benches of many a high court and the Supreme Court of India. There was a sense of awe about the heritage when one walked into the college portals – to see Dr. Ambedkar’s name in the list of principals. GLC has had its challenges, of being a state-owned institution but some motivated faculty members and the students of the college keep its flag flying.

    When I studied law, a new national law school had been set up in Bangalore, and it had gained a strong reputation for its teaching infrastructure and the scale of its campus.

    GLC had two batches – one that would start very early in the morning until about 9:30 am and another that would start then and go on until a little around noon. Studying jurisprudential concepts so early in the morning, participating in moot courts, class debates and studying the library, marked the student life in GLC. I was part of the Legal Aid Clinic, and exposure to poor people without legal aid was an eye-opener component of the training.

    Study of law in Mumbai could be very solution-driven with pre-digested examination-oriented tools such as “Three Test Papers” and law summaries published in “Jhabvala” editions being in vogue. GLC was pretty much accepting of all – those who would choose these tools to getting past exams; and equally, those who would want to sit in the library and pull out case law and pore over treatises and come up with studied propositions.

    I think law schools today are already very “career-oriented”. The success of a law school is determined by the placement of its students in institutional employers or law firms. Some Vice Chancellors are focussed on getting star placements for their students and seem focussed on gaming the recruitment system. The relatively expensive fee for studying law drives students towards being focussed on money as a driver of career choices. The good students who get good placements in good firms and in institutional employers such as banks that pay large remuneration, are therefore becoming typical employees doing a day job that helps recover the considerable expense of getting educated.

    The practice of law is now less of a profession and more of a day job. Therefore, the law course resembles an MBA in more ways than one.

    I would, therefore, say law schools have to make some interventions to nudge the student’s mind slightly away from single-minded career focus.

    Law schools also need to engage with law firms and work out a reasonable institutionalised means of providing internships and practical training to students from varying backgrounds. It pains me to see the old-boy-network ruling the roost in internships now, just the way it did for the law as a career in the 1990s. Today, the entire process is very unscientific. Students are busy picking up internships with two or more firms in every vacation, gathering names of multiple law firms on their CV without any reasonable or realistic learning in that short time. For law firms too, such internships mean nothing, and truly the students gain nothing concrete spending just a few weeks in one firm. This clearly is an area that the profession needs to work on to improve matters for the state of the ecosystem.

     

    What were the biggest hurdles and challenges in your legal career in the first few years of graduation? How different would you say it was from those who had graduated a decade earlier?

    For about two and half years after I graduated, I continued working as a journalist. I made the shift late. This came with its package of challenges and hurdles. When I began, I had not truly spent a single day in a law firm even as an intern. Every challenge pushes one to realise one’s own inner strengths and helps in gaining confidence. I read old files and opinions voraciously. I read different types of agreements in varying situations.

    The Internet had become more widely available by then, and one could read agreements from across the world that were publicly filed with regulatory agencies. There are websites that provide so many precedents of real documents that have actually been executed by real parties in real-life situations. Therefore, the challenges were lower than what lawyers, say five to ten years elder to me would have faced when they had graduated.

     

    Please tell us about the transition from working as an Assistant Editor at The Times of India to working as a lawyer.

    The transition was tough and fun all at once. As a journalist, I used to focus on breach of trust by human beings, harming other human beings and the rest of society. The healthy scepticism expected of journalists played a major role in moulding my psyche, and I would treat everyone with distrust. Moving to practise law in real life taught me that one must presume bona fides in the conduct of other human beings. I realised that commerce can only occur when there is trust in one another, no matter how well one drafts the agreements that one signs. Contrary to popular belief about law and lawyers, real-life practice of law exposed me to a different dimension of human behaviour and I realised how truly trusting one has to be of others, and indeed be trustworthy, to be able to do well in the world of commerce. Accepting and acknowledging the pain of the counterparty is the only way one can bring about a reasonable bargain and balance of rights and obligations in transactions one handles as a lawyer.

    On the personal front, being an Assistant Editor in one of India’s largest newspapers brought with it a considerable reputation, recognition, and even fearsomeness. Chucking it all up overnight to start from scratch in a new profession required one to bring to bear one’s humility and abandonment of some delusions of grandeur that a powerful position tends to bring into one’s character. The transition was also eased by the fact that my “beat” as a journalist had been securities regulations. I had spent a lot of time and energy in understanding this area of law even as a journalist. Seeing the real impact of these regulations on businesses from close quarters as a journalist helped the transition to be a smooth one.

     

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    What were your responsibilities at Udwadia, Udeshi & Berjis? How did you move on to J. Sagar Associates later on?

    (Somasekhar worked at Udwadia, Udeshi & Berjis for the first four years of his legal career before joining J. Sagar Associates.)

    I had joined Berjis Desai who was one of the founders of UUB. He had told me that I should absorb as much as possible in my initial time and soon I would sink or swim along with my clients. He used to read all the drafts of the documents I initially wrote in that phase of my career. I learnt a lot from his revisions and corrections. He had his own style of handling inter-personal conflicts in aspirations among team members. Studying how he resolved them or even watched as they resolved themselves, helped me learn how to appreciate conflicting aspirations of other people.

    I began as a port sector lawyer and did a lot of work on container terminals managed by P&O Ports, a smart and commercially-savvy private ports operator led by an aggressive business leader called Captain Jimmy Sarbh. I learnt enormously from this relationship and it helped build my confidence. While I was earning my bread and butter from port-sector work, I also got many opportunities to represent clients in relation to securities laws, with appearances before the Securities and Exchange Board of India led by the then Chairman D.R. Mehta, and before the Securities Appellate Tribunal, then presided over by Mr. C. Achuthan, a remarkable judge. Each of these individuals was as compassionate as strict, and their treatment of cases I represented taught me a lot. My first very own client was the National Securities Depository Ltd., whose Managing Director C.B. Bhave, I had interacted a lot with as a journalist when he had been Senior Executive Director in SEBI. He reposed confidence and trust in me and encouraged me to focus on securities laws. He gave me my first “own” assignment, indeed trusting the firm I had joined, and me to do justice to his work.

    Over time, I got to build up the securities law practice thanks to the operational freedom that Berjis gave me. In 2002, Berjis met Jyoti Sagar of J. Sagar Associates. Their values and culture resonated so well that they decided to merge their practices. We were being wooed by other peer firms too, but the value fitment with JSA was wonderful, and remains so till date. Our team led by Berjis moved our practice into JSA, which gave us a national platform. At that time, JSA was present in Delhi and Bangalore, with a fledgling presence in Mumbai. We got a national platform to build on, and Jyoti, another exceptional human being, chaired the firm as a Founder while Berjis became the Managing Partner of the merged practice. Since then, it has been a long journey at JSA, a truly unique professional Indian law firm that has built and nurtured itself on certain core inner strengths to meet the typical challenges that any Indian law firm would face.

     

    What, according to you, are the skills required of an advocate aspiring to build a successful career in corporate law? How do we boost the faith clients keep on us?

    The first and foremost is to appreciate that the client is at the core of the practice. All that we do is linked to the existence of the client. Without the client, there is no practice possible, even in hard-core non-commercial litigation. Every lawyer should internalize the principle that the profession is not about himself but about the client. Yet, this does not mean pleasing the client against the client’s interests. This is a profession where you are paid to watch out for the client and tell him that he is wrong. Building this strength and the capacity to resist being a yes-man is the second critical skill that one has to develop. Third, it is important to build a pleasant and firm approach to negotiation. Be it litigation practice of transactional practice, being pleasant to other lawyers both within your firm and to those doing their job for your client’s counterparty, is a very important skill for success in law. When clients and counterparties see that you have a method to your approach and that you are not wasting time trying to win brownie points, they will enable you to succeed.

     

    When you see that a candidate you are considering to hire, is good at mooting, debating and has a few publications, how does it influence your decision?

    These are important skills because they would help me determine if the candidate is articulate, figure out how he thinks and what measure of professional circumspection he is able to bring to bear.

     

    How much noteworthy would you say CGPA is? Can work experience replace grades? Would you consider people who have worked efficiently but had a few repeat papers?

    Grades are merely a screening tool for entry into the profession. At JSA, we have never been big recruiters on campus in any case. To me, nothing can replace real work experience. One knows of academic toppers who are bad practitioners, and equally, of lawyers with unspectacular academic credentials having built enormous professional skills. This is not to say that those with academic proficiency are necessarily misfits for a good practice. One also knows of some delightfully academically-proficient lawyers, who are extremely successful and effective practitioners. If you are really good at your work, over time, it would show. After five to seven years in the profession, whether you had had a few repeat papers when you were in school would be irrelevant. Although, I must caution that the profession is headed in a direction that getting a good break into a career path would get increasingly difficult if you have repeat papers on the CV.

     

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    What are the skills that you look for when you hire lawyers under you? How do you reckon that law students should develop these skills?

    Apart from looking for the skills that I say above that lawyers need to have to succeed, I would really look for comprehension of core issues that are in vogue and the ability to connect the dots across different segments of laws and across practical factual realities. This is easier said than done. However, what I really look for is a strong emotional quotient. A lawyer is only as good as his emotional maturity. The intelligence quotient and intellectual capacity is to be taken for granted. The most intelligent lawyer who cannot handle others with compassion is of no value to me. Students should develop these skills by simply mingling a lot more with students from completely variant backgrounds and classes of society on campus. Travel and meeting people from around the globe is a critical contributor to emotional maturity.

    When you join a law firm, you earn a lot of money to enable travel. Whether you blow up your money over drinks every weekend or save something wisely to fund travel, is a matter of choice. When you meet people of varying background, you realise the commonality of dreams across humankind, and it will help break down prejudices. The alternative to travel is reading. Reading what others write exposes you to the same experience, and you gain from the story-telling by writers and are able to picture other people’s stories and relate them to your own. I would recommend a self-imposed mandatory quota of non-law reading hours per week, throwing in fiction for good measure.

     

    What all does a partner at a Law Firm like J. Sagar Associates have to do? What falls within the scope of your responsibility? Please tell us about a typical work day.

    A partner at JSA has to be a multi-dimensional personality to enjoy his work. He has to be able to connect with his team members and their aspirations. He needs to have the right balance between promoting everyone blindly to being so harsh that no one likes to stay back with him. The role ranges from developing trust in clients to be able to command work, to discharging his duties well, and to thinking about the welfare of his attorneys. Unidimensional lawyers tend not to do well at JSA.

    As the head of the securities law practice, I have to lead my team’s efforts in the practice and mentor teammates. I try to lead by example and help observant attorneys to learn by studying how I work.

    A typical work day starts early morning when the phone starts ringing with the Far East having gotten into work. It ends late in the night when the United States is getting neck-deep into the work day. On days when I have hearings at the Securities Appellate Tribunal, there is also a need to orient oneself before the hearing and there can be some uncertainty about when one would finish a hearing. Managing expectations of transactional clients in parallel can be quite demanding. Of course, one can make time for other interests to be accommodated within the work day, with some degree of social media exposure thanks to smartphones, but the profession can be highly demanding. The world normally just sees the glamourous side of the legal practice, choosing not to see the very hard work and effort that it entails to be able to buy the glamour.

     

    What is the transformation from being a retained partner to equity partner like? Are business development skills mandatory at such higher roles?

    A commercial firm at the end of the day has to run on commercial lines. It has to earn enough for the longevity of the institution and to continue to provide a financially secure environment for its stakeholders. Therefore, it is critical that a leader of a professional firm should have business development skills. If you cannot command the trust of existing clients for getting newer work, or the respect and trust of new clients, how do you run a practice? It is fallacious to think that one can be an equity partner without the capacity to be a thought leader in the market place. Therefore, one should develop the cutting edge skills of improving the command over other people’s trust in you, which is at the core of business development skills.

     

    When you accept interns under you, what kind of qualities do you look for? How do you say interns should go about their work so as to get noticed in a positive way in the limited time they have?

    I do not screen interns at all. JSA has an internship policy, and we have managed to build a professional HR policy towards internships. Increasingly, this has moved from the old-style of internship being a tool to please clients and stakeholders to one where we can derive value from human resources, and attract new quality talent for future leaders of the firm.

    First, interns should seek out a longer internship. Second, they should do so in advance. Even in this day and age, I get requests in May for internships in June. These are very difficult to accommodate in a manner that is of any meaning to the intern or to the firm. An ideal internship period would be of eight weeks. During an internship, the student should be a sponge and absorb everything that can be absorbed. Even if there is no specific work assignment that one is roped in, the access to a firm provides valuable access to how various professional work streams are handled – due diligence, research for opinions, contract-drafting, litigation filings etc. Interns have to seek to find opportunities to work and learn.

     

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    Tell us about the changes that occurred in your life after you became a partner. Did you ever feel that the workload had increased considerably? How do you maintain the work-life balance?

    The profession has become more and more demanding. The key to being a successful partner is in meticulously planning and working on making oneself redundant by building human resources and future partners who are worthy of clients’ trust. Shunning insecurity is a critical element to enable greater exposure of colleagues to clients and in building clients’ trust in one’s colleagues. Keeping an overall oversight of work delivery and quality is where a partner should focus on. Yet, gauging what the client wants in each situation and ensuring that the expectations are being met is a very important aspect of managing a practice. Even with all this, the workload can only increase, and one has to be disciplined about handling it.

    My work-life balance typically comes from writing my columns (weekly for the Mirror publications and monthly for the Business Standard) through the year, and more importantly from my travel both on work and on vacation. I ruthlessly take two to three weeks off annually without access to telecommunications so that I can recharge and re-balance myself.

     

    Your core practice area includes securities laws, mergers and acquisitions, and foreign investment in India. How do you keep yourself updated of the recent developments in the same areas of law?

    This is the era of information technology – it is not so difficult to find information on recent developments. Google alerts, RSS feeds and push services even from regulators can ensure that every recent development in your practice area lands up in your inbox every night. One has to keep the discipline of reading what needs to be read and ruthlessly sparing one’s eyeball time by shunning any reading of unnecessary stuff that digresses attention. The power of information technology makes the latter a challenge too. There is so much that social media throws in your direction that you have to be really disciplined in being discerning on what to read and when. This too is easier said than done.

     

    Please share a few words about your contribution to public policy in the financial sector.

    (As an active contributor to public policy in the financial sector, Somasekhar has been a member of organisations such as the High Level Committee to Review SEBI (Prohibition of Insider Trading) Regulations, 1992 and the Committee to Review Policy on issuance of Global Depository Receipts.)

    I am grateful for these opportunities. I have been lucky to have had excellent Chairmen in each of these committees – Mr. C. Achuthan for the takeover regulations, Justice NK Sodhi for the insider trading regulations, Justice B.N. Srikrishna on work relating to the Financial Sector Legislative Reform Commission, Dr. P.J. Nayak for the committee on corporate governance in the banking sector, to name a few.

    When you write law and policy, you realise how non-partisan one needs to be, and how one has to think of the larger interests of the nation and society. The law and policy govern multiple stakeholders, many of whom have conflicting objectives and desires. Good law is one that is easy to administer and respectful of the interests of various stakeholders. Working with this approach is also a big chance to think of the big picture in everything one does. It makes one a far more responsible professional.

     

    You’re also an Independent Director at Oxfam India. What has the experience been like so far?

    It is an excellent window of opportunity to do something concrete with the skills picked up in the profession. The lessons one learns at the Board of a well-run-and-intentioned NGO are invaluable. The exposure to professionals in the NGO space and their thoughts and ideas is a refreshing one. At the end of the day, any lawyer worth his salt is one who is conscious of the protections that the law affords to a people. Advocacy in the shaping of the law, enforcement of the law and indeed assistance in the governance of an institution are all complementary to a lawyer’s skills.

    For example, working with the Reserve Bank of India and the Government of India to secure approvals and shape India’s policy towards enabling Indian civil society and NGOs to respond to the calamitous earthquakes in Nepal has been a very rewarding experience. It is intellectually challenging as a matter of law and policy and at the same time, very satisfying emotionally for being able to add value to humankind beyond what one does as a normal commercial lawyer.

     

    What kind of effort should a young associate put into work to get appreciated? What distinguishes an associate with a partner when it comes to work?

    Attention to detail is the critical element. Research and insight into applicable law is a given. An associate who has basic diligent application to work would stand out. For example, one that weeds out definitions that are not used through a document, or non-capitalised usage of a defined term, cleans up repetition of an entire definitional phrase despite the term having been defined, would stand out for his attention to detail. On the other hand, an associate who does not pick these things up and merely reflects corrections made by the partner without uniformly pro-actively implementing the principle even in instances where the partner misses things out, would stand out as a below average resource.

    To me, the level of attention that an associate gives in a meeting or conference is also very important. If an associate takes no notes, behaves like a senior counsel, does not come back to you after a meeting with what is required to be done by the team, and instead waits to be told what to do, he would stand out as a below average resource.

    There are bright sparks who are really clued in, summarize what was discussed and what needs to be done and assist the partner to deliver value, and they have a bright future with me.

     

    Please tell us about the work environment at J. Sagar Associates. If a young associate commits a mistake or an error what course of action do you follow as a partner?

    We are considered to be a very benign and chilled-out workplace. To err is human and to forgive is divine. Of course, that does not mean I would not scream and shout when these human propensities in me are provoked. I have increasingly started focussing on teaching youngsters of my team about the specific mistakes they make in their draft documents rather than just clean up and correct the mistakes without investing time in explaining the mistakes. If mistakes are not picked out and explained, the young associates accept all the changes you make, and focus on delivery to the clients rather than learn about what went wrong and how to adapt the lessons for future assignments.

    A leader of the team should make this investment in the youngsters. Indeed, there are days when I could be perceived as being in a dangerous mood. I am told on those days my door is entered with trepidation. Yet, everyone in the team equally knows that my recovery from a temper tantrum is rather rapid!

     

    As a concluding message, what would be your suggestions to law students?

    Never lose sight of first principles of law. Every single time, go back to the first principles, the objects, intent and purpose of the law that you are handling, and you will never go wrong. Read the bare provisions of an applicable law every single time you consider a situation to which they apply. Do this every single time. Do not adopt the “boss is always right” attitude – it will not get you far and on the contrary it would erode the lawyer in you. This is a profession in which having your well-reasoned concurrence or dissonance is what is expected of you. Do not abandon reason at any time in your approach to the practice. “Because I say so” is one phrase that is alien to this profession.

     

     

  • Aditya Gupta, Senior Associate, Anand & Anand, on an LL.M in IPR from Harvard Law School and a career in Intellectual Property

    Aditya Gupta, Senior Associate, Anand & Anand, on an LL.M in IPR from Harvard Law School and a career in Intellectual Property

    Aditya Gupta is an intellectual property litigator and currently works as a Senior Associate at Anand and Anand. He graduated from NLU, Jodhpur in 2010 and is a gold medallist. He has been a recipient of the prestigious Microsoft Intellectual Property Rights Scholarship, 2009.

    Soon after graduation, he started working as an Associate at Anand and Anand and after three years of works, he joined Harvard Law School to pursue Masters in Intellectual Property Rights.

    While at Harvard, he worked as a Research Associate to Professor William W. Fisher III for a period of six months. After coming back to India, he again joined Anand and Anand but this time as a Senior Associate. He has also been a Visiting Faculty at National Law University, Delhi for a semester and taught a seminar course on Practicing IP law’ to students pursuing undergraduate degree in law.

    In this interview, he talks about:

    • His decision to chose NLU, Jodhpur
    • His experience of working with Anand and Anand
    • His days at Harvard Law School and LL.M experience in IPR
    • The skills of an Intellectual Property lawyer

     

    How would you like to introduce yourself to our readers who are mainly law students and lawyers?

    I am a litigator with a keen interest in intellectual property law and new ventures. I am currently working as a Senior Associate at Anand and Anand.

     

    When and how did you decide to study law? How did you settle for NLU, Jodhpur?

    My decision to study law was not a planned one. I was preparing for pre-medical examinations till late into my XII standard when I suddenly realized that I did not want to be a doctor. For one, I did not have the patience to study for twelve years! Anyhow, purely on instinct and gut feeling, I decided to pursue legal studies. It was decision fraught with risk, especially since I am a first – generation lawyer. As I was quite late into the application process, I only applied for NLU, Jodhpur, NALSAR, NLS and Amity Law School. NLU, Jodhpur was the highest ranked law school that I could get through and that’s why I settled for it!

     

    After graduating from NLUJ, you joined Anand and Anand as an Associate. How did the appointment take place? What comprised your work at Anand and Anand?

    I had interned twice at Anand and Anand during my third year and had received positive feedback. In my fifth year, I applied for a job at the firm through the HR department. I was called for a personal interview with the Head of Department and a few days later I was told that I had been selected. Since I was in the litigation department, during my first two – three years, a lot of my work comprised of drafting court documents, research work and assisting seniors within the firm and Senior Advocates during arguments in Court. I was particularly lucky to work on some high-profile cases with very high stakes which exposed me nascent and as yet undeveloped areas of law.

     

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    How difficult were the first few months of Anand and Anand given that it focuses mainly on a specific field of law?

    I did not find the initiation period very difficult since I had taken a keen interest in IPR ever since third year of college and had interned at IP firms, took courses related to IP at NLUJ and written papers on intellectual property. The quantum leap that one takes after joining the profession is not on substantive law but the way the Courts function and the realization that substantive law is a tiny (though of course important) part of legal practice. Thus while I felt reasonably confident of my ability to handle areas of substantive IP law, I did find that the practice in Courts requires skills in addition to reading and understanding the law, which students are not exposed during law school.

     

    You have specialized in IPR. What made you interested in the same?

    Innovation and creativity are, in my view, the two most awe–inspiring facets of human life. While intellectual property litigation may appear to be a battle between large corporations it is, at its heart, about protection of the innovative/ creative genius of an individual. That intellectual property law endeavours to foster this genius generated my interest in the subject and practicing this field of law for the past three years has only fuelled my passion for it.

     

    Thereafter you went on to pursue Masters in Intellectual Property law from Harvard Law School. Was it a professional requirement to enhance more in your career?

    I had decided that I will pursue a master’s degree in law during my undergraduate studies itself. I wanted to be exposed to the pedagogic methodologies in foreign universities and always dreamed of being taught by the top professors in the world. Once I chose IPR as my career choice, it made even more sense for me to pursue a master’s degree since IPR in India borrows several concepts from IPR across the world.

    The experience at Harvard was everything that I had imagined and much more – libraries providing access to nearly every book in the world, the opportunity to interact with world-class professors who know their subject (and much more) inside out and forming bonds with students from over 60 countries – I think it helped me broaden my horizons both as an individual and a professional.

     

    While at Harvard, you worked as a Research Associate to Professor William W. Fisher III. What kind of work you were entrusted with?

    I worked with Professor Fisher on a specific project that pertained to a multi-jurisdictional analysis on the role that intellectual property law plays in the fashion industry from a policy perspective. Since the project is ongoing, I would not like to discuss much about its details.

     

    After coming back to India, you  rejoined Anand and Anand, and this time as a Senior Associate. What does it take to be appointed as a Senior Associate?

    The firm pre-defines the expectations from members at a particular designation level and consistent performance across various metrics is assessed by the management before taking the decision on whether to promote an ‘Associate’ to a ‘Senior Associate’. Unlike many other firms, the number of years in the firm is not the only criteria and other factors such as interpersonal skills and ability to handle pressure are equally important in determining one’s progress in the firm.

     

    What are the primary essentials of an IPR lawyer? How do you say a fresh graduate can work on building these skills?

    I think keeping abreast with the latest case-law is absolutely critical for practicing IPR. Unlike many other areas of the law, IPR is fast-developing and Courts are exploring new doctrinal areas on a very frequent basis. An Intellectual Property lawyer must also understand the space IP enjoys within a particular company – for instance, IP may form the core of the business for a music production company but it may not be so for an e-commerce company (though of course most e-commerce companies also rely heavily on their brand valuation). It is becoming increasingly important for lawyers to appreciate the business of their clients and clients appreciate lawyers who act as facilitators of their business rather than merely providing a legal opinion.

    Since IPR is a technical subject, it is also important for fresh graduates to understand the basics so that they are able to communicate with their clients in a language which they can understand – without legalese.

     

    Tell us a bit about work culture at Anand and Anand and the life of a Senior Associate. What is your current work profile like? Please tell us about the responsibilities you are entrusted with.

    The work culture at Anand and Anand is very excellent – it not only fosters free and independent thinking but in fact rewards people with fresh and creative ideas. The firm is ambitious and one is driven by this constant desire to deliver a world-class work product. Though the learning curve is very steep, the senior members of the firm are supportive and they help you grow as a lawyer.

    My current work profile involves developing litigation strategy, interacting with clients on a daily basis, arguing matters in Court and assisting others in arguing matters and client management and development.

     

    What has been your strategy to deal with errors and mistakes? How would you suggest a young associate to deal with them?

    I believe that errors and mistakes are a part and parcel of providing any service. Mistakes happen and while one should not keep moping about them, it is important not to have a lackadaisical approach. It is absolutely critical that you learn from each error/ mistake and not to repeat them.

     

    People often complain about the highly skewed work-life balance at the top law firms. What is your usual workday like?

    I am still figuring this one out! For me, I enjoy my work a lot and I do not recall the last time I woke up in the morning and did not want to go to work.

  • Varun Kalsi, Manager, Dua Associates, on LL.M in corporate law from NYU and work experience in General Corporate

    Varun Kalsi, Manager, Dua Associates, on LL.M in corporate law from NYU and work experience in General Corporate

    Varun Kalsi graduated in law from Amity Law School in 2007. After which he went on to pursue an LL.M. in Corporate Laws from New York University. At present Varun works as a Manager at Dua Associates.

    In this interview we talk about:

    • His journey as a law student from Amity Law School
    • Studying LL.M from New York University and how it influenced his career
    • Working at Dua Associates.
    • How to gain expertise in corporate law

     

    What brought you into studying law as your profession?

    I’d say both but more of planning. Like most lawyers though I am good with my numbers, Mathematics was not my favourite subject. Back in 2002, the options were, therefore, pretty much limited to hotel management, media or law. Personally, I chose law since it seemed to me to be a more empowering medium that turned you into a professional, and is one where people hold you in great esteem, either out of admiration or fear or both!

     

    How did you fare in academics at Amity? Would you say a great CGPA is a necessity to kickstart a good career in the legal profession?

    I’d say I was amongst the bright ones in my batch with nice and healthy grades throughout my 5 years at law school and would also, like to add that, in my opinion, my batch was probably the best our law school had seen, in so far as academics and extra-curricular activities were concerned. There was immense competition even amongst friends but all in good spirit, which, in fact, led us to achieve much more than we would have done otherwise.

    Considering that a fresh law graduate will not have great work experience (other than legal internships/clerkship), a potential recruiter’s primary focus would be on the candidate’s academic performance (grades and other achievements) whilst at law school. However, even if one’s CGPA is not the best, he/she may be hired by a recruiter on the basis of the candidate’s overall personality, the recruiter’s immediate requirements and the way he/she conduct himself/herself in an interview.

     

    What skills did you get to hone as the Executive Member, Amity Law School Moot Court Society?

    Acquiring organisational skills, inter-alia, was a great advantage of being an integral part of the Moot Court Society and we were nicely tested every time our college hosted the annual Moot Court Competition. Also, the exposure to other teams in terms of their manner of preparation and the way they prepared for the competition was always something one could learn and imbibe.

     

    What is your advice to budding mooters?

    (Varun has participated in various moot court competitions like Stetson International Environmental Law Moot Court Competition, Surana & Surana Corporate Law Moot Court Competition and Amity National Arbitration Moot Court competition.)

    The first time you think about it, it might be difficult and you may put it on the backburner but my suggestion would be to push yourself to participate in a Moot Court competition, just for the sake of the experience. If I was never “pushed/encouraged” by my friend/batchmate- Apar Gupta, I am certain I would not even done half of what I eventually achieved. The idea is to get in there and get a feel of things as you’d never know whether you like it or not until you try it. By the aforesaid, I don’t mean that it is mandatory but I’d highly recommend that you at least give it a try, once. Perhaps, it is instrumental in your decision as to the path you’d eventually choose in your legal career, i.e. being a litigator or a corporate lawyer.

     

    What kind of internships did you do in your law school? Did you have institutional support for procurement of internships?

    I actually did a variety of internships right from with a High Court lawyer, an Advocate-on-record, few law firms (Corporate and IPR) and so on. For me, internships were always an avenue that could help me make that difficult decision- what kind of practice would I relish as a lawyer?

    There was minimal institutional support available for procurement of internships.

     

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    Do you think being from a non-NLU has ever proved to be a hindrance for you? What has been your experience?

    I think it depends on the organisation as to what it values more- the individual student’s calibre or his/her institution itself. To be fair to the students there are indeed organisations that openly practice such “discrimination” but then that’s not the case with the others. Also, one has to bear in mind that the institution will always play a key role for any fresh law graduate as a recruiter may view his/her abilities from the fact that the student is a product of that particular institution. I am sure such issues are also faced by MBAs who are not from ISB or IIMs but then there are always other options.

     

    Many lawyers say that the first year after graduation is the most difficult year for young lawyers. How did you learn the ropes and what were the biggest challenges you faced?

    Well, isn’t that true for all professionals? I firmly believe that all professionals are valued in terms of their experience and expertise, which can only be learnt the hard way, i.e. one has to go through the whole process or loosely speaking, the grind. My first year was challenging too especially since my senior was an experienced and seasoned lawyer who would not accept anything less than perfect but was always available to answer my questions and discuss legal issues with me. I would ensure (and still do) that I do not repeat any of my mistakes and strive to improve my drafts/opinions basis the hands-on knowledge and on-the-job experience that I’ve acquired while at work.

     

    Right after graduating, you went on to pursue LL.M from New York University School of Law. Why did you decide to go for higher studies?

    After doing different kinds of internships I was inclined towards being a corporate lawyer and therefore, felt that it would be great if I could improve upon my knowledge of Corporation laws with an international perspective to it. I’d say that I was extremely fortunate to get through NYU as its faculty, especially for courses like Corporation law and M&A, is par excellence and added a new dimension to the way I perceived the corporate law practice.

     

    Tell us something about your LL.M year at New York University School of Law. How did this influence your career?

    Not only did this year add to my legal acumen it also brought me in touch with a bunch of talented individuals who had come there from all across the globe. Also, it helped me evolve as an individual and in the process I even learnt few new things about myself. The NYU stint brought more clarity to my thought process in so far as concerns the sub-practice areas within the corporate law practice and helped me forge certain lifetime relationships, which influenced my career greatly.

     

    Do you think it makes sense to students to go overseas to study law when they want to work/practice in India?

    It’s a personal choice. For instance, for me it was a better and sounder understanding of Corporation laws with an international twist and then the thought of working abroad for a few years. I was able to achieve only the former. Therefore, it totally depends on the individual’s goal. Studying overseas is no guarantee that you will get a chance to work there too, therefore, if the ultimate goal is to work abroad it may not be the best route. It is pertinent to note that there are individuals who had been practicing in India and now are with law firms abroad and vice-versa. Thus, there is no direct co-relation between studying abroad and practicing in India.

     

    Tell us about the nature of work you are entrusted with and what’s a typical day like?

    There is no typical day for a lawyer like me as my practice areas are wide in nature being general corporate/commercial advisory and Real Estate. There are days when you are swamped with work and do not know when night falls and then there are some when you have some breathing space. Having said that, I am always on something all the time whether it is execution of work for clients or business development activity as ultimately I have to justify my cost to my firm.

     

    How do you say one can gain expertise in corporate law? What does it take to be a good corporate lawyer?

    (Varun’s key practice areas are General Corporate laws including Defence and Foreign Exchange Regulations and  he is also engaged in major Real Estate Transactions.)

    My recommendation would be to firstly, get the basics right. The fundamentals of the Company’s Act (as amended) and the Contract Act should be clear as these, inter-alia, are the main statutes that govern corporate transactions and are followed by other laws and regulations depending upon the nature of a transaction. Also, it would be a good idea to follow deals such as acquisitions and mergers through news items and trying to understand the drivers and mechanics to these deals as much as possible.

     

    How do you keep yourself abreast with latest industry news and trends?

    Nowadays, there are several options available such as news items, legal websites and other resources that provide me with the latest legal developments and happenings in India and around the world. Another prominent resource is keeping in touch with your colleagues working with you and otherwise.

     

    How do you maintain a work-life balance? Are there any specific time management tips you would like to share?

    The best tip is always to finish your work as soon as possible and not sit on it till the penultimate moment. This way, one may have an opportunity to have some free time to indulge in other activities. Having said that, it totally depends on the volume of work and how you manage it that eventually determines your work-life balance.

     

    When you lawyers are hired, what kind of skills and profile are looked for?

    The legal fraternity hires on need basis, i.e. in proportion to their requirements and intended revenue and other projections. For freshers, while recruiting things that matter are the institution, candidate’s academic performance and the overall personality of a candidate in order to determine his/her suitability to the job and the possibility of his/her adaptability to the work environment and the team, which he/she shall join. For working lawyers, it’s their grip of their practice areas, legal acumen, business development skills, work ethics and his/her suitability to the job and the possibility of his/her adaptability to the work environment and the team, which he/she shall join.

     

    You must have guided several interns. How would you say that an intern can generate a positive feedback in the limited time they have?

    There is only one way- ‘do as much work as you possibly can’ as only this will give you the necessary exposure. There can be times when you are not called upon for a few days to do an assignment but that should not deter you from going to different lawyers within the firm and politely asking if they could do with some assistance. Also, the other key is to carefully listen and note down the instructions given for an assignment. This will ensure that your research work is on track and if the lawyer is pleased with your work, he/she will give you more work or you may even stand a chance of an offer from the organisation in some cases.

     

     

    You recently got promoted from an Associate to Manager. Which skills would you say contributed towards this promotion?

    The Manager designation is one step away from becoming a Partner and in that context, it is a crucial career milestone. It brings with itself lot more responsibility and commitment both in terms of work and business development activities, which need to be met.

    It’s been a while since I have been with Dua Associates, right from being an Associate to a Senior Associate and now, a Manager. I think a nice mix of some hard work, sincerity, interpersonal relationships with colleagues and good fortune are the reasons. I firmly believe that if one is consistently putting in the efforts he/she will get the necessary recognition, which may be sooner for some and perhaps, a little later for the others but it will come.

     

    What would be your parting message to our readers?

    It is important to enjoy whatever you are doing so choose your path accordingly. If you enjoy your work, you will deliver and succeed in your endeavours. Do not fret about success as it will follow your hard work with a mix of some good fortune, of course!

     

  • Ranjeetsinh Pawar, Partner, Ojas Legal, on starting up with independent practice after graduation and on business development

    Ranjeetsinh Pawar, Partner, Ojas Legal, on starting up with independent practice after graduation and on business development

    Ranjeetsinh Jayendra Pawar graduated from ILS Law College, Pune in 2012. While in law school, he worked with various organization like K11 Fitness Management Co. Pvt. Ltd., 5 Fitness Club and Unique Organic Agri Tourism Pvt. Ltd. handling their Sales Operations and Business Development. Soon after graduation, he co-founded ARP Associates, a full service law firm in Pune. Very recently, ARP Associates has been renamed as OJAS Legal which is an umbrella organization that provides legal support in five major cities including Pune, Mumbai and New Delhi.

    In this interview, he talks about:

    • Law school experience at ILS Law College
    • Starting up with ARP Associates
    • Journey from ARP Associates to OJAS Legal
    • Having business operational skills as opposed to skills of a lawyer to become a partner
    • Internship opportunities at ARP Associates.

     

    Were your sure about pursuing a career in the legal field from the beginning or  did you think of alternate career options?

    My father was in the judiciary, so ever since I can remember, I have been closely involved with the legal profession. I was brought up in an environment that saw court procedures, criminals and police as daily affairs. There was no alternative for me, truth be told – it was clear from the very beginning.

     

    What made your journey with ILS worth it? What is your take on extra-curricular activities and maintaining CGPA?

    After having the kind of childhood that took me from school to school in various cities every few years, thanks to my father’s transfers as a judge, ILS was the best kind of college I could have dreamt of.

    I loved making friends and made it a point to get to know as many people as possible in the college, regardless of what batch they were in.

    My extra-curricular activities included photography and organising events like moots and conferences. Memorably, in my fourth year, we did a research project that culminated in a National Level Conference chaired by Justice P N Bhagwati himself. Working on this project with the like of Soli Sorabjee, Harish Salve, Fali Nariman and Dalveer Bhandari was the high point of my years at ILS.

    So, while a good CGPA definitely helps, it isn’t the only thing that is going to take you to success.

     

    What were your areas of interest during your graduation? How did you go about developing expertise and knowledge in these areas?

    Honestly speaking, I wasn’t sure of an area of interest all through my graduation. Around the final year though, I started studying property law, sparked by some personal interest and its instinctive appeal to me. I also worked with a real estate development company in the same year, assisting them with acquisition and development work. The intricate ways in which property can be transferred and its lineage be traced back through the years – almost like a human bloodline – fascinated me immeasurably. In this pursuit, extra-curricular activities like research projects and moot courts definitely helped.

     

    Right after graduation, you co-founded ARP Associates and currently work as a Partner there. Was it pre-planned or it just happened during last year at ILS?

    The trio that founded ARP are batchmates from ILS. It so happened that after college, when we had all taken up our respective jobs, we realised that we actually wanted to be entrepreneurs – for the freedom of being able to call the shots. Also, it dawned on us that all three of us had complimentary areas of interest, which would allow us to cover more areas of service. And so, ARP was born.

     

    Please tell us something about “ARP Associates”. What are the main areas of practice  of the firm?

    ARP was founded around mid-2012, with the primary goal of becoming a multi-city organisation that provided one-stop services, to individuals and entities looking for a more solution-oriented legal experience, at an easier price point.

    Since we were a start-up, we took up all sorts of work, learning it on the go. But, we continued with a clear goal. ARP gradually developed into a full service law firm, focussing on corporate advisory and litigation support.

    Very Recently, we changed ARP Associates to OJAS Legal which is an umbrella organisation that provides legal support in 5 major cities including Pune, Mumbai and New Delhi. OJAS now covers more areas of work and has more associations and partnerships to ensure that our clients have a complete service experience. Our strength has been the personal touch we provide our clients in the service which has ensured that we have retained all our clients since the beginning.

     

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    What were the initial challenges you faced setting up your law firm and how did you get through them?

    Initially, the biggest challenge we faced was lack of experience! More, to be honest, our ‘lack of age’. People were reluctant to give us work in this field that is largely seniority-controlled, in which experience counts for more than capability, which is not entirely unjust. The work we got initially was from people who knew us. It came to a point where breaking even looked difficult and we started doubting the risk we had taken. Minor work here and there kept coming in, but not much was at stake in those cases. We had to execute these deliverables with impeccable perfection to ensure that we had some wriggle room moving on. But, one thing led to another and things turned around; our biggest support was word-of-mouth from clients.

     

    What is the most challenging or stressful part of being founder of a law firm? Is it easy to have a work-life balance?

    The challenging part of being a start up law firm is acquiring and executing work when your failure is a bigger possibility. The other side of the challenge is managing the human resources. Not many freshers want to work with you because you’re new, and since you’re new, you can’t pay them enough. This leads to partners having to multitask on all fronts, like work deliverables, client service, research and admin.

    Work consumes most of life – we are always available for retainer clients and emergencies. Long vacations are impossible and short one-day leaves become dearer. But today we are around three years old and have a stronger team and a presence in the industry which attracts new interns and associates. This has allowed us to be able to delegate work and duties but the burden of work keeps increasing with each day.

     

    How is the work culture at OJAS Legal? Are there new challenges every day or did work fall into a predictable pattern?

    The work culture in our office is quite strict, thanks to my partner Arpit Ratan, who is a total workaholic and a maverick in legal solutions. We are flexible about almost everything in administration, except client service. That is the one thing we are uncompromising about. There are new challenges literally every hour, because people come to us with issues regarding things even we aren’t too sure about. It is a continuous learning process for us partners, being on the field, liaising with government departments, researching, negotiating and strategising. Every other problem is full of surprises. Only the shock factor may have gone down slightly, but the number of surprises and problems has just increased.

     

    If an associate commits a mistake or an error what course of action do you follow as a partner?

    We are quite like a school when it comes to associates. An associate will be asked to sit with either of the Partners for an evaluation upon committing a mistake. S/he may be asked to repeat the work with more instructions, or review the partner’s work to learn for the future. We try to train associates to broaden their thought process and ask more questions. Our Firm believes in the power of dissent – the more the argument or questions on an issue, the better the solution.

     

    What kind of effort should a young associate put in to work to be appreciated? What distinguishes an associate from a partner when it comes to work?

    The associate has to reach a point of delivery at which the firm can directly forward their work to a client, with little or no changes. Mistakes in work are never the liability of an associate; the partner has to face the client about them. This is where the associate can start by thinking like the person who has to answer or face the music for delivering bad work. That’s the sign of a very efficient associate.

     

    What falls within the scope of your responsibility? Tell us about a usual work day.

    Most of my morning hours involve co-ordinating between our resources. The day’s to-do list has to be ticked off, and that means all the pieces need to fall in place. A major part of it is calling people and following up on their respective duties. A lot of the day is spent meeting people for different purposes – there could also be visits to client offices for various troubleshooting requirements. The end of the day is generally spent in office, reviewing the day’s deliverables from associates and researching; the partners also meet to discuss the next day’s scheduling.

     

    How important is it for a law firm partner to be good at business development, or are great advocating skills enough to become a partner?

    Business development is absolutely crucial to corporate law firms. Without clients, you would have no work and no growth. Great lawyering skills are definitely irreplaceable, but without good business development, they cannot reach their true, optimised potential. Meeting as many people as you can is the key to good Business Development.

     

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    How is internship helpful for a law student?

    During my college years, interning with big corporate law firms was a rage amongst the students. It isn’t a bad thing either, but what I strongly believe is that students should try for variation in the experiences they gather during college. Work at different levels of legal institutions to understand the system better. This varied experience will help you take a better decision during your final year. Internships are definitely important, as they are the only exposure to the practical application of our education during college years.

     

    Does your law firm take in interns? What do you look for in a prospective applicant?

    Yes, we do take in 2-3 interns for every month from different colleges or cities. The application procedure is the same as any other place – send us a mail and we will call you in for an interview. With the interns, the only qualities we look for are zeal to learn and some sense of responsibility. The applicant needs to treat this internship with due respect, as we allow more exposure to them than most places – for example, we have interns sitting in on client meetings and interacting directly with clients. We have had some pretty great interns over the past, some of whom even worked directly on client deliverables and qualified for the strict OJAS standards.

     

    Please share your experience of starting up with a law firm for the benefit of law students and young lawyers who want to start up on their own.

    All I would say is don’t be afraid of the difficulties. This profession has enough work and different strata of clients’ paying capabilities allow everyone to have their pick. Just be honest to your principles and keep working.

     

  • Prerna Singh, Consultant, PwC, on shifting from Law Firm to Accounting Firm and law school experience

    Prerna Singh, Consultant, PwC, on shifting from Law Firm to Accounting Firm and law school experience

    Prerna Singh is a graduate from School of Law, Christ University (Batch of 2011). Her internship experiences were quite diverse. She has interned with various prestigious law firms including Trilegal, Dua Associates & LKS. While in law school, she participated in various co-curricular activities and has multiple publications to her name. She was a proactive mooter and has both participated and won a few moot court competitions in law school. Soon after graduation, she started working at SRGR Law Office and thereafter shifter to Archer and Angel, Advocates and Legal Consultants as an Associate. Currently, she works as a Consultant at PricewaterhouseCoopers in Risk Advisory.

    In this interview we talk about:

    • Her days at Christ College, Bangalore and at various internships
    • Her work experience at SRGR Law Offices.
    • Her professional shift to Archer and Angel, Advocates and Legal Consultants.
    • Working as a Legal Consultant at PricewaterhouseCooper, India.

     

    How would you introduce yourself to our readers? Tell us what motivated you to pursue law as a career.

    Well I was born in Bihar and brought up in Jaipur. I did my schooling at The Nest Children Secondary School and India International School in Jaipur, after which I moved to Bangalore to pursue law from Christ College. I am currently working with PricewaterhouseCoopers India at their Mumbai Office as a ‘Consultant’ in their Risk Advisory LoS, prior to which I was working with law firms in Delhi and Mumbai.

    That question is particularly of significance in my case because I am the first one and by far the only one to have pursued law as profession in my family. I am not sure if there is this one thing that I could point at as my reason for pursuing law but it wasn’t accidentally for sure. I had taken up science and maths as my core subjects after 10thgrade and was preparing to write engineering entrances and it was in the later part of my 12th grade that I got consciously inclined towards law.

    As philosophical as it may sound, I use the term ‘consciously’ because I believe that it must have been there subconsciously long before it came to realisation. I am an avid reader and back in those days used to be majorly hooked on to novels. I used to love reading John Grisham books. Also, it so happened that I would end up spotting a lot of articles in the newspapers every other day on law as a career option, its prospects, on law schools in India and so on. Around the same time, I also ended up meeting my father’s friend, who had interestingly studied multiple subjects including law and so my obvious question to him as someone who was considering law as a career option but was not absolutely certain about it was – “Having studied subjects from almost every stream, which is your favourite?” and his instant response to that was something to this effect “Law, hands down” and post that answer, I was sure that I wanted to give it a serious shot. Looking back, it feels like all these were ‘omen’ in Paulo Coelho’s terms guiding me towards pursuing law. Today, when I think of it, I cannot place myself in any other profession but law and I cannot thank my parents enough for supporting me in my delayed decision of pursuing law and understanding where I was coming from despite being a science maths student.

     

    Tell us a bit about your days at Christ College, Bangalore?

    The five years spent in Bangalore during law school days continue to be my favourite. These five years were crucial being the foundation years of my life and it could not have gotten better than Christ College and Bangalore. I owe hugely to my days in Bangalore for who I am today as a person and feel extremely privileged to have studied at Christ.

    Our curriculum in law school was quite hectic and packed back in 2006-2011. We had regular classes from 9 am to 4pm on most days with additional certificate courses and maintaining 85% attendance was mandatory, failing which disciplinary actions, including barring from writing exams were taken. Further, we had multiple assignment submission with stringent deadlines for every subject in each semester, which meant spending time in the library almost every other day post classes, researching and reading up on various subjects. Add to that the weekly presentations for certain subjects and readings for everyday class.

    After having this as your regular routine, if you are someone who is active in co-curricular and extracurricular activities such as mooting, debating, writing papers, sports and cultural activities in law school, which I was, one had to stretch even further. Having said that, most classes were made so interesting and interactive that there were days when you could find us in classrooms continuing the discussion with the batch mates and faculty members even post the classes. I for one had started loving that routine, for it was so enriching in more ways than one. Every day spent in law school was a learning that helped me grow both personally and professionally. I can easily and confidently say that my batch (Batch of 2011) was the most privileged one to have been taught by some of the best faculty members across law schools in India.

     

    How were you various internship experiences when in law school?

    My internship experiences were quite diverse and inspiring. I used to intern every semester, in fact most of us used to, as a certain number of internships were also mandatory in law school. We used to break after every semester for close to five to six weeks and I preferred utilising every such break by interning. By the end of 5 years, I had 13 internships in total starting from State Human Rights Commission, NGO, company to law firms like Trilegal, Lakshmi Kumaran &Shridharan, Dua Associates, Holla & Holla Advocates and so on.

     

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    In your opinion, how important are extra-curricular activities are for a law student? Do you feel these are activities that should left to the discretion of students or be partaken mandatorily?

    I personally think co-curricular and extra-curricular activities are quite important and play a huge role in developing a person’s personality and outlook irrespective of whether the person is a law student or not. Having said that, from my personal experience, it is particularly beneficial for a law student to participate in co-curricular activities such as mooting, different styles of debating, writing and presenting papers at various forums for various reasons including improving and enhancing your research, drafting and oratory skills, which are quite important in a lawyer’s life, irrespective of whether you choose to be a corporate lawyer or litigating lawyer. Also, participating and doing well in these activities alongside academics gives you the much needed exposure, increases confidence, adds to your personality and reflects well in your resume. Some of these activities also prepare you for your professional life ahead to a certain extent.

    So far as your question on whether these activities should be taken up mandatorily is concerned, I think everyone is grown up enough in law school to know what is good for them and what is not and hence to each their own. However, I would personally recommend everyone to be active in law school and at least take up one such co-curricular/extra-curricular activity that you really like or have always wanted to take up…it could be anything-sports, music, debating, theatre, mooting, publishing papers. Not only for the reasons that I have cited above, but also because this is the ideal time to pursue anything that you are passionate about. Also, I believe one needs some sort of recreation constantly and pursuing extra-curricular/co-curricular activities does not only take care of that but also channelizes your energy in the right direction. For me that activity was mooting and I think I evolved with every moot that I participated in, both, personally and professionally. Also each time I represented my law school and won moot court competitions, it gave me an unmatchable high.

     

    Soon after graduation you joined SRGR Law Offices as an Associate. How did your appointment take place? How would you describe your experience?

    By the time I was in my fifth year of law school, I was certain that I wanted to start my career with a law firm- thanks to the multiple internships I had undertaken by then. So I applied to a few law firms in Delhi, SRGR Law Offices being one of them. Subsequently I was called for an interview and soon after that I got an offer to join them.

    My first job was at SRGR Law Offices and it was a wonderful experience working there. The partners of the firm are not just extremely knowledgeable but also grounded and approachable. I worked in their general corporate law team and did a lot of work relating to power and infrastructure laws, FDI, FEMA and so on. I also got to do a lot of drafting and reviewing of various commercial agreements. It was a great learning place for me as a fresher.

     

    Generally the first year after graduation is the most defining time of a fresh law graduate. What would you suggest a fresh law graduate should do to hold spirit and utilise the opportunities available?

    No matter how well and how many subjects you are taught in law school, your professional life as a lawyer is drastically different from that of law school. As a fresher, it takes time to sink that in. It is important to have an open and positive mind in your first job so as to make your learning optimum. Also, one needs to be patient and treat every job assigned no matter how big or small equally important and give it their best. Being a fresher, one should be particularly dedicated towards work so as to learn extensively and gain the trust of seniors to handle bigger transactions and responsibilities.

     

    Thereafter you left SRGR to join Archer & Angel, Advocates and Legal Consultants. What led to this shift in your professional portfolio?

    I was planning on doing my masters in law from the US in early 2012 but decided to defer it by a few years. In the interim, I got an interview call from Archer & Angel, Advocates and Legal Consultants for a position in their Mumbai Office. I was not actively looking to move out but decided to take the interview nevertheless and ended up liking the profile offered to me during my interview. Also, I always wanted to work in Mumbai (it being the financial capital of India and the hub for corporate lawyers) so I decided to take up the opportunity and it was absolutely worth it.

     

    You have published a lot of papers in various prestigious journals. How should one go about writing papers and getting the same published?

    The first step towards publishing papers is to identify the broad topics/subjects of your interest and then look for journals that publish papers on those particular subjects. Once you have identified a reputed journal that covers your area of interest, peruse the guidelines and the instructions including the format, style of citation, eligibility and structure well and ensure that you understand and abide by all of it while writing the paper.

    It is important to research extensively, narrow down your topic and get the structure and flow of the paper right in your mind so as to execute it. Further, ensure that the content including your view comes out clearly and does not contradict or confuse the reader. It goes without saying that the ideas will flow better and there may be several changes in your draft structure once you start penning down your thoughts and incorporating it in your paper/article. Nevertheless, it’s always good to have a basic draft structure in place before you start, no matter how many revisions it may have to go through eventually.

    So far as getting your work published is concerned, different journals/publications have different criteria for selection. Some journals may require you to submit an abstract of your paper first, review the same and then decide whether they would like you to work on the complete paper. The word limit of these abstracts could vary anywhere from 200 to 500 words for different journals. Then, there are journals, which would straight away want to review your paper on the topic and decide whether they would want to publish it or revert with their comments and suggest revising the paper or discard it outright.

     

    How did paper publishing and other co-curricular activities help you in acquiring skills that are important for a successful legal career?

    Mooting, publishing papers and presenting papers at various national and international conferences have helped me tremendously in my legal career. I would like to reiterate that research, drafting and oratory skills are extremely important in the legal profession and my active participation in these co-curricular activities have most definitely helped me in enhancing these skills and my knowledge base. Also, participating in these activities makes you a more confident person and lets confess it one certainly enjoys the laurels and recognition that comes along with it. Last but not the least, in hindsight I realise that having these credentials in your resume leave an impact on the recruiters as one can gauge a lot about you as a person, your skills, your strength, motivation, personality, interests, efforts and characteristics through the activities that interest you. Separately, for those who are planning on doing their LL.M from abroad, having these credentials in your application certainly makes a difference and gives you an edge over others.

     

    Currently you work as a Legal Consultant at PricewaterhouseCoopers, India. What made you choose this particular avenue? How did your appointment at PwC take place?

    Having worked for close to three years with law firms, I was keen on exploring the work culture and work profile offered to lawyers at consultancy firms. Last year, I decided to make a shift from law firm and sent my application to a few consultancy firms. I was fortunate enough to receive a call for interview from PwC, Mumbai where I had three rounds of interview within two weeks, out of which the last round was with the partner, post which I was made an offer to join PwC.

     

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    We would love to hear about your work profile. What is a normal workday like?

    I am a part of the Risk Advisory team at PwC. My work profile includes setting up of compliance framework for clients from different sectors, drafting of governance level policies for different clients, reviewing agreements for clients across sectors, identification of risks (legal and commercial) and advising on risk mitigation and so on. My work profile constitutes a good mix of research and drafting. It also includes meeting and interacting with clients, understanding their business needs, models and operations in order to add value and deliver well.

    Every day at work is unpredictable which is what makes it both challenging and interesting. There is a lot of multitasking required on a daily basis as you may be working on multiple projects/assignments at a time. Therefore, time management is crucial as there are stringent deadlines to be met more often than not and you have to be on your feet constantly.

     

    Are you allowed to interact with clients?

    Yes, as stated earlier I am allowed to interact with clients. In fact meeting and interacting with clients, understanding their business needs, models and operations is a part of my work profile.

     

    Tell us about a pinnacle case which you were a part of. What steps do you take to prepare for a difficult case?

    I cannot discuss a specific case for more reasons than one, including confidentiality of course. However, there are multiple challenging instances that you are faced with on a regular basis and it feels good to look back and know that you handled it well and tactfully.

    I personally think that no matter how hard you try, you cannot really prepare in advance for a difficult case (except may be begin your research in advance) unless it is a repeat and if it is a repeat then it is no longer difficult! Different assignments may pose different challenges and not all challenges can be apprehended in advance, so more often than not you are required to think on your feet when faced with an assignment specific challenge.

     

    How do you keep yourself abreast with latest industry news and trends?

    I try and spend at least half an hour every day browsing through legal blogs and news websites etc. to keep myself abreast with latest industry news and updates. Also, being a part of the industry, you end up having a lot of friends, peers and batch mates working in different sectors, law firms etc. and end up knowing important updates from each other, which is quite helpful. Being a lawyer, the nature of your work also demands a lot of reading for different assignments and you inadvertently end up knowing things.

     

    What were the biggest hurdles and challenges in the first few months? How did you deal with them?

    Once you have worked for a couple of years, the challenge is not so much in understanding your work and deliverables but in understanding how the organisation that you work for, functions. Therefore, just like in any other organisation, a substantial amount of time was spent in understanding the protocols at PwC in the first few months. This exercise is also important as things at work become easy and smooth after that.

     

    What is the procedure to apply for recruitment at PwC?

    You could visit the career section on the website, look out for the relevant vacancy and apply online by creating an account and filling in your details. If shortlisted, the Human Capital team of PwC will revert to you after screening your application.

     

    Is there any other tip you would like to give to our budding professionals?

    Once you have chosen law as your career, be certain of the line of practice that you would want to pursue after graduating (be it litigation, academia, law firm, in-house counsel, LPO or anything else). Internships and frequent interactions with your seniors and professors will help you identify your area of interest. Therefore, it is important to take internships seriously in law school and try and explore as much during the tenure.

    Once you have identified your area of interest (which you may in all probability by the end of fourth year in law school), you should then try and work towards it by streamlining your remaining internships. Also, every fresher entering the profession should avoid having preconceived notions and give it some time to get acclimatised to the work life. It is important to have an open mind to enhance learning and treat every work equally important, no matter how big or small. Reading regularly and keeping yourself abreast with latest amendments and change in law is extremely crucial for a lawyer and so inculcating the habit of reading in early days of your career will be useful. As learning is a continuous journey, it is important to take your profession seriously and work continuously towards increasing your knowledge base.

  • J. Sai Deepak, Associate Partner, Saikrishna & Associates, on studying Law after Engineering, experience in IPR, and taking landmark cases to success

    J. Sai Deepak, Associate Partner, Saikrishna & Associates, on studying Law after Engineering, experience in IPR, and taking landmark cases to success

    J. Sai Deepak graduated from Anna University with Bachelors in Mechanical Engineering, after which he went on to pursue LL.B from IIT Kharagpur. After completion of law he joined Saikrishna & Associates as an Associate in 2009, where presently he has been promoted to an Associate Partner. He won the 2008 Legal Writing Competition of the International Association for the Advancement of Teaching and Research in Intellectual Property (ATRIP) as a student and writes for his blog “The Demanding Mistress”. He has also authored papers in various exemplary journals.

    As a litigator at Saikrishna & Associates he led the team to many successes including the reading down of S.79(3)(b) of the Information Technology Act and the Intermediary Rules; representing Greenpeace India successfully in Tata Sons v. Greenpeace International & Anr.

    In this interview we talk about:

    • Choosing law after completing engineering at Anna University.
    • Work profile at Saikrishna & Associates
    • Winning the 2008 Legal Writing Competition of International Association for Advancement of Teaching and Research in Intellectual Property (ATRIP)
    • Leading the team which represented the Internet and Mobile Association of India before the Supreme Court.
    • Representing Indian mobile brands such as Micromax and Intex in the suits for patent infringement filed by Ericsson

     

    Given that most of our readers belong to the legal fraternity, how would you introduce yourself to them?

    I am a first generation lawyer, an engineer-turned-general litigator with core competence in Intellectual Property Law and allied areas.

     

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    Having graduated with a Bachelors in Mechanical Engineering, what motivated you to switch streams and pursue law at IIT Kharagpur?

    My dream was to pursue a Masters in Aeronautical Engineering after under-graduation, but in the penultimate semester of engineering (2005), I was in IIT Kharagpur to present a paper in a technical symposium organized by its Industrial Engineering department. It was in the inaugural speech by the then Director of IIT Kgp, Shri Shishir K. Dube, that I first heard of the new LL.B. programme which was set to commence the following year, in 2006, in IIT Kgp’s Law School known as the Rajiv Gandhi School of Intellectual Property Law. I read up more on law and realized that although I took up engineering by choice, my future lay outside of it in a profession which involved understanding and dealing with people. This was perhaps because I have always had a deep interest in history, current affairs, politics and policy and I wanted to contribute in some tangible way to at least one of these areas.

    These interests, coupled with my passion for debating and public speaking, made law seem like the logical choice. The choice did not seem that logical to quite a few well-wishers. In fact, the Head of the Mechanical engineering department of my college was utterly shocked and urged me to reconsider my decision. But by then the legal bug had bitten and today I am happy I took the headlong plunge into law. As for the choice of Law School, most engineers have a soft corner for the IIT brand and this may have sub-consciously influenced my decision to study at IIT Kgp, despite the fact that the LL.B. programme was nascent.

     

    How did you get through to the LL.B programme of IIT Kharagpur?

    The LL.B. programme at IIT Kgp is limited to graduates with a first degree in science or technology or medicine. For the first batch in 2006, a Statement of Purpose had to be sent along with the application form for the entrance exam, then known as the National Aptitude Test. The Test had sections on quantitative aptitude, verbal aptitude, GK and a few fundamental questions related to the law. This was followed by a Personal Interview and candidates were selected based on cumulative scores. This being the first entrance exam for a newly established Law School, I am not sure the number of applicants was remotely comparable to other post-graduate entrances in India like GATE and CAT. I got through the entrance and the other rounds based on my preparation for engineering placements. The current process of admission to the Law School, I believe, is different.

     

    Our readers would like to know briefly about your blogpost which made you popular in the legal fraternity. Also, what made you take up blogging as a law student?

    (Sai frequently writes on his blog “The Demanding Mistress”. As a law student, his blogpost on the Bajaj-TVS patent dispute was quoted and was relied upon by a Division Bench of the Madras High Court to reverse the findings of the Single Judge.)

    Blogging happened to me in a very serendipitous way and largely because of dearth of opportunities to moot. Since we were students of the first batch of a fledgling Law School, there wasn’t a mooting culture back then and it was a challenge to kick-start one given the teething troubles anynew Law School typically faces. So three of us, Nikhil Ranjan, Ashwani Balayan and I,thought it would help to organize a moot court competition (“Verdict”) in our second year in our Law School (2008) and learn from the participants by observing them moot. In the process of inviting people to judge the moot, I was directed by Yogesh Pai (now a Professor at NLU,Delhi) to SpicyIP. I came across a few posts on the Bajaj-TVS patent dispute. However, no techno-legal analysis had been undertaken in those posts.Being a mechanical engineer with a tentative understanding of the law, I volunteered to write my first post on SpicyIP analysing the issues in dispute, keeping both technical and legal jargon to the minimum.In the process, I realized that blogging, and writing in general helped me unclutter the thoughts in my head and helped me articulate my views with greater clarity. Also, compared to mooting which requires a fair amount of resources on a regular basis which I couldn’t have afforded, all that blogging needed was access to the internet and the will to read up and write.Importantly, I felt blogging gave me access to a much wider audience. All these got me hooked to it.

    After my graduation from Law School when I was back home preparing to leave for Delhi to join the profession, I got a call from a friend of my mine from Law School, Arindam Roy Chowdhury, who congratulated me for being cited in a decision by the Madras High Court, which I dismissed as a prank. When I opened my email account later in the day, it was flooded with congratulatory mails and messages. It turned out that my maiden blogpost had indeed been relied upon to vacate the interim injunction granted against TVS Motors. I was told (although this hasn’t been verified) that this was one of the few instances where a law student’s work had been relied upon by a Court.

    In December 2010, I founded my own blog “The Demanding Mistress” where I continue to write on innovation, IP Laws, Competition Law and policy.

     

    What role do publications play in the life of a lawyer? What, in your view, are the few most important skills that law students should strive to acquire in order to write papers/articles effectively?

    (As a law student, Sai won the 2008 Legal Writing Competition of the International Association for the Advancement of Teaching and Research in Intellectual Property (ATRIP). He has also authored various papers in many reputed journals such as Max Planck Institute’s International Review of Intellectual Property Law and Competition law.)

    I think clear writing is a skill that every lawyer is expected to possess and must possess. Writing really tests the degree to which one has internalized a subject and its spirit, because the clarity with which you write is reflective of your grasp of the subject. Publications in peer-reviewed journals convey the message to prospective employers and clients that you are confident of articulating your views and subjecting them to the scrutiny of a better-informed audience. It also prepares you for legal drafting when you start practicing.

    I strongly believe voracious and rigorous reading is imperative for effective writing. If you write more than you read, your writing will suffer from paucity of depth and eventually you are bound to run out of topics to write on.Also, a lawyer must know how to cater to different kinds of audiences. After all, writing for a newspaper on a legal issue is not the same as writing on a specialist blog. Importantly, when a lawyer reads or writes, his/her individual personality and training as a lawyer must come to the fore.

     

    Soon after graduation, you joined Saikrishna & Associates in 2009 and were made Associate Partner recently. How did you secure your appointment?

    My entry into the Firm was not through campus placements. In fact, I sat out of the campus placements because at that time, no litigation firm approached the Law School for recruitment. Fortunately, two things happened- first, through a combination of circumstances in which the founder of SpicyIP, Shamnad Basheer, had a role to play, I was working on the Firm’s first two patent matters in my final year in Law School. So Mr. Saikrishna Rajagopal had an opportunity to assess the quality of my work and was kind enough to offer a position in the Firm’s litigation team. Second, around the time I graduated, Mr. Gopal Subramanium, who was the Solicitor General then, too had offered a position in his Chambers. Since I wanted to gain experience in trial practice and was already familiar with Mr. Saikrishna’s style of functioning, I accepted Mr. Saikrishna’s offer.

     

    For a law student, it’s very difficult to think of becoming an Associate Partner under six years of joining the profession. What would you say helped you gain recognition?

    I’d largely credit my learning to the opportunities Mr. Saikrishna has been large-hearted enough to share. He believes in teaching through empowerment, which is at the heart of the Firm’s culture. Although this means greater responsibility in the initial years, it helps you understand the ropes of the profession faster. Plus, what I am particularly thankful for is the freedom I have, to write on any issue I wish to, so long as there is no conflict of interest. This freedom matters a lot to me personally and professionally, and I am aware of the fact that this is hard to find in a law firm set up.

    I would be remiss if I did not mention how fortunate I am to have had brilliant colleagues right from my first year who enjoy discussions on the law. No question or issue is dismissed as being “too academic” or trivial. It’s a very vibrant atmosphere which is what attracts interns and makes them want to be part of the Firm. Also, one of the key strengths of the Firm is the camaraderie shared by its members, which makes one look forward to go to the Court or office each day. To me, each of these factors affects individual success when you work in a law firm.

     

    What does an Associate Partner at a Law Firm like Saikrishna and Associates do? What falls within the scope of your responsibility? Tell us about a typical work day.

    At least 3-4 days in a week, I am in the High Court for the better part of the day when the litigation season is on. After I am done with my matters for the day, I usually stay back in the Chamber to prepare for the next day or to send out opinions to Clients or to meet them. The advantage of the Firm’s flexible work hours is that one’s time is productively spent in attending to work regardless of where one is, instead of wasting it in commutation. Apart from handling matters that have been assigned to me, I contribute my mite to diversifying the litigation practice of the Firm by taking up matters which may have nothing to do with IP at all. For instance, I have a personal interest in taking up criminal matters, particularly those that relate to economic offenses, before CBI Special Courts. Fortunately for me, the Firm encourages such initiatives and my efforts on this front have thus far been reasonably successful.

     

    You have a few landmark judgments to your credit, two of which are Tata Sons v. Greenpeace and Basmati Geographical Indication case. Kindly elaborate in brief on these two cases for the benefit of our readers.

    We were engaged by Greenpeace India to represent it in Tata Sons v. Greenpeace International & Anr. in 2010, which was my second year of practice. The Suit revolves around Greenpeace India’s use of the Tata trademark in its Pacman-styled game Tata v. Turtles as part of its awareness campaign on the dangers posed by the Dhamra Port in Odisha to the nesting grounds of Olive Ridley turtles. Tata Sons alleged infringement of its trademark and defamation. The case throws up fascinating issues relating to interplay between free speech and IP rights, apart from an examination of the defense of fair comment under Indian law to an allegation of defamation. In January 2011, Justice Ravindra Bhat dismissed Tata Sons’ prayer for interim injunction and upheld the defense of fair comment on the issue of defamation and Greenpeace India’s right to use the Tata trademark in exercise of its free speech. Subject to correction, I think this decision was the first of its kind in an IP context in India and has been hailed as a landmark in several advanced IP jurisdictions. The matter is set to be taken up for final arguments in the near future.

    The Basmati Geographical Indication case relates to oppositions filed by the State of Madhya Pradesh and private entities from MP to the application for GI on Basmati filed by Agricultural and Processed Food Products Export Development Authority (APEDA). The oppositions were based on non-inclusion of the State of Madhya Pradesh as part of Basmati-cultivating regions in India. On December 31, 2013, the GI Registry upheld the contention of the opponents and directed the inclusion of the State of Madhya Pradesh in the GI Application on grounds that APEDA’s basis for identification of Basmati cultivating areas in India was flawed and not rooted in history and facts. The decision has been appealed against by APEDA before the Intellectual Property Appellate Board (IPAB), which is pending adjudication.

     

    You are also representing Indian mobile brands such as Micromax and Intex in the suits for patent infringement filed by Ericsson. Could you give our readers a broad overview of the suits?

    Broadly the suits relate to Ericsson’s allegation of infringement of what it claims are “Standard Essential Patents” relating to the GSM standards used in mobile telecommunication. The validity of the patents asserted and the claim of essentiality have been challenged by the defendants. Critically, the conduct of the patentee has come under scrutiny by the Competition Commission of India for prima facie abuse of dominance under Section 4 of the Competition Act, 2002. The suits and the proceeding before the CCI are sub-judice. These suits raise issues which Indian Courts and the CCI have never had the occasion to deal with in the past. In the process of handling these matters, we have discovered several facets of IP and anti-trust law and their relationship. Personally, the learning has been great.

     

    Section 79(3)(b) of the IT Act has been read down by the Court in the Shreya Singhal decision. Could you share with our readers the significance of the decision for internet companies?

    (Sai led the team which represented the Internet and Mobile Association of India before the Supreme Court in the constitutional challenge to the intermediary liability regime under Section 79(3)(b) of the Information Technology Act and the Intermediary Rules. Mr. Saikrishna Rajagopal was the counsel for the petitioners.)

    Ours was the only petition which challenged the constitutional vires of Section 79(3)(b) of the IT Act. Under the original provision prior to it being read down by the Hon’ble Supreme Court, an intermediary was expected to take down content based on “actual knowledge” received from private parties of the unlawfulness of the content hosted by it. Given the vague nature of the term “actual knowledge” and the onerous obligation cast on intermediaries by the use of the term, the Apex Court read this down to mean actual knowledge of a Court order which directed take down of the content. This ensures that intermediaries do not have to act like Courts and adjudicate on the legality of content hosted on their sites.

    The second limb of the challenge was to the ability of the Government to seek take down of content which was used for commission of an “unlawful act”. The term “unlawful act” went beyond the limitations imposed by Article 19(2) of the Constitution on the Government’s power to curb free speech and expression. Consequently, the scope of “unlawful act” in the context of free speech was limited to categories of prohibitions spelt out in Article 19(2).

    The reading down of Section 79(3)(b)is significant owing to the integral nature of intermediaries to the internet ecosystem and the role they place as disseminators of free speech and expression of internet users. Importantly, certainty in the application of the law is important for any business, and the business of intermediaries is no exception to this requirement.

     

    How does it feel to have landmark judgments to your credit? Do you think achievements like this can change one’s recognition drastically?

    It certainly feels good to have been part of such decisions. I’d like to clarify that each of these decisions is the consequence of the collective effort of the team.

    Yes, decisions such as these help increase one’s credibility as a litigator and make it relatively easier to be considered for matters involving higher stakes. That said, regardless of the outcome, what truly helps improve one’s credibility and visibility is the quality of preparation and execution in the Court since the result in beyond your control.

     

    You have been invited by several forums in India and abroad to present your views on IP developments in India. Please share your experience in speaking on various platforms.

    Based on my experience, I think, similar to writing, the nature of the audience must be taken into account when you address a forum. I have also realized that to connect effectively with a non-legal audience, it is important to keep the legalese at a minimum and highlight the broad policy implications of a legal issue. Also, as litigators, it helps to listen to multiple viewpoints from members of the industry, academics and policy analysts because these may come handy in lucidly putting forth a complex issue before the Court.

     

    Would you say you have “specialized” in IP law? What made you interested in the same? How do you say one can gain expertise in IP Law? What does it take to be a good IP lawyer?

    I’d never say that I have “specialized” in IP Law, which is why I introduced myself as an engineer-turned-general litigator with core competence in Intellectual Property Law and allied areas. For me, IP law is just another branch of commercial law with its own peculiarities like any other area of the law. The path to attain proficiency in IP law is similar to any other branch of law, which is to read as widely and deeply as possible, and to develop the ability to apply the law to the factual matrix of a given case. Critically, for anyone to acquire expertise in commercial litigation, strong foundations in property jurisprudence and common law are a must, along with command over procedural law.

     

    How different has the three-year program been when it comes to internships? How are internships helpful for a law student?

    Since ours was a three year program, there weren’t as many opportunities to intern as in a five year integrated program. Plus, I never interned in a law firm because I had very little understanding of the concept of a firm and the option didn’t sound great to me. However, I did make it a point to acquire diverse experiences by first interning at IIM Ahmedabad and National innovation Foundation, followed by GE’s John F. Welch Technology Centre in Bangalore. These internships helped me understand the theoretical and practical aspects of innovation. I do believe internships, if rightly chosen, help a student understand her/his own strengths, weaknesses and career aspirations.

     

    What are the qualities which Saikrishna & Associates look for in a typical CV? What do you feel makes an intern stand out and is very important for him/her to do to have a chance of getting a call back or even a PPO?

    At Saikrishna & Associates, the pedigree of the Law School does not matter, nor do the achievements claimed in a CV. What matters to us are initiative, conceptual clarity, the ability to write/draft crisply and the ability to marshal arguments in support of a proposition through research and logic. If a student performs well on at least some of these counts, subject to vacancy, we offer a position in the Firm. Most of our litigators have come through internships and not campus placements.

     

    What would be your advice to students interested in litigation?

    For anyone who wishes to take up litigation, I’d say patience and hard work are equally important because unlike transactional practice, litigation takes time to reward. But when it does, the thrill is just incomparable. In a nutshell, treat litigation as a marathon run and not a 100-metre dash. Also, it would help to be comfortable with general areas of practice and be good at atleast one area of practice, which is not the same as restricting oneself to a specialist area.

     

  • Sahana Raghunathan, Associate, JSA, Chennai, on studying at ILS Pune, recruitment and work at a top law firm

    Sahana Raghunathan, Associate, JSA, Chennai, on studying at ILS Pune, recruitment and work at a top law firm

    Sahana Raghunathan is an Associate at JSA, Chennai. She graduated from ILS Law College, Pune with a BSL LL.B degree. She also pursued Diploma courses in Human Rights and Corporate Laws. After graduation, she joined Vichar Partners as an Associate. Vichar Partners was subsequently merged with JSA where she continued to work. In this interview she talks about:

    • Studying at ILS and Diploma Courses
    • Recruitments and internships at JSA, Chennai
    • A career in corporate law and maintaining work-life balance

     

    How would you introduce yourself? Could you please share a little bit of what motivated you to pursue law as a career?

    Let me start by thanking SuperLawyer for this amazing opportunity. Greetings from the city of Chennai! I am Sahana Raghunathan, Associate, JSA. A Proud 90’s kid and a Corporate Lawyer. Enthusiasm personified.

    Having always been a topper and driven by marks in school, engineering “ought” to have been the natural next step. It was something like a rebellious decision (read: against the typical belief of a “tambrahm” family) to take commerce in class 11. My father likes to believe it’s because he convinced me that law and economics is a good combination. I have been told that two of my great-grandfathers were part of the then judicial system. Let’s just say that this gene skipped many a generation before me! Jokes apart and however clichéd it may sound, it was going to be either law or journalism. One road was taken, the other not. I am now with the corporate team in JSA, Chennai and my main practice areas include private equity, mergers and acquisition, banking and finance and general corporate commercial.

     

    Tell us about your college life at ILS Law College, Pune. What was the reason behind pursuing various Diploma courses? Was it a professional requirement to enhance more in your career?

    Choosing to pursue law in any city, away from home, was a conscious decision and it had a lot to do with wanting to lead an independent life (not to be read as misusing independence et al).Being the first batch to give CLAT, I was placed in Rajiv Gandhi National University of Law Punjab. But I decided to go ahead with Indian Law Society (ILS) Law College, Pune, as it is a very well established institution and it proved to be the perfect choice. Attending early morning lectures seems to have prepped me for my early morning work hours now. But the main advantage of studying in ILS, apart from the excellent and very approachable faculty, is the fact that we had the rest of the day to ourselves to pursue our other interests, legal or otherwise (no pun intended). The Diploma in Human Rights (in my second year of law school) was to get a feel of that side of law I knew I would not make a career of. When in my third year, the Diploma in Corporate Laws gave me a direction to follow and I was sure of what I wanted to do once I graduated from law school.

     

    Please comment on the quality and structure of these courses. How much practical knowledge did you gain from it?

    We had the diploma classes as frequent as thrice a week depending on the schedule of the main course (i.e., BSL. LL.B). Excellent part time faculty, who were mostly working professionals, were engaged to take practical sessions and though these sessions were not as effective as internships, they were helpful nonetheless.

     

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    What were your areas of interest during your graduation? How did you go about developing expertise and knowledge in these areas?

    My internships during law school have been in various fields: IP, corporate litigation, general corporate commercial, banking and arbitration. Though I have always been inclined towards a career in corporate law, I wanted to venture into other areas as well and when better a time than as a student. I was really lucky to have interned with some of the best advocates such as Mr. Satish Parasaranand law firms/legal departments in Chennai such as R&P Associates, HSB Associates and Kotak Mahindra Bank.

    As an intern, the workload is less and the seniors there tend to pamper you as they know life after graduation. Talking to them, learning practical aspects of working from them and also utilising the libraries at such offices always prepared me for a better next year at law school. I knew what to look out for and how to grow professionally.

     

    Did you find that your law school education had prepared you sufficiently for the many tasks you were required to execute during your internships and later at your job?

    On a theoretical level, law school preps you to know the law. The internships prepare you for the practical aspect, as in how to implement the law and how to work with it. The first few months at work is when you actually get to realise how to work the two in tandem and be creative while balancing the two.

     

    Soon after graduation you joined Vichar Partners as an Associate. Did all the attorneys from Vichar Partners continue to work after the Merger with JSA? Did it affect your work in any way?

    Yes, that’s correct. It was announced that Vichar Partners was set to merge with JSA, one of the top national law firms, effective April 1, 2014. It was an exciting moment as a young associate to realise that I would get to work with attorneys pan India and the level of exposure I would get while doing so. And yes, all the attorneys and the staff of Vichar Partners were absorbed by JSA post-merger.

    We, at Vichar, always believed in providing outstanding legal solutions, in our chosen practice areas with a strong emphasis on ethics. So it was very easy to fall in line with the mission statement of JSA. The transition was easy as the working culture was similar in both the firms and the merger has been having a very positive impact on our working style.

     

    What is your take on working at a smaller law firm in early years of career rather than working at a very big law firm?

    I wanted to join a mid-sized firm with an effective presence in the market and Vichar fit the bill perfectly. And I am glad that they decided to welcome me. The reason behind choosing a growing firm like Vichar was so that the hype and pressures around a top firm could be avoided at the beginning stages of my career but at the same time, be exposed to that same level of work and clientele. My time at Vichar was a learning slate that prepared me and gave me the confidence, both professionally and personally, to meld easily into JSA.

     

    How was your first year after graduation? What were the biggest hurdles and challenges after joining work? How did you deal with them?

    I was a lucky fresher who had a very happening first year at work:

    Mid-sized firm into a top national law firm;

    Companies Act, 1956 to the Companies Act, 2013.

    It was a little confusing at first; we had learnt the old statute while in law school but we were expected to apply the new statute at work. That I would say was one of the top concerns in my first year. At JSA, we give a lot of importance to knowledge management. We regularly have internal team discussions across the JSA offices and internal seminars and presentations that help us stay on top of things and this also ensures networking intra JSA.

     

    What are the primary professional ethics you follow while at work? How do you deal with mistakes or errors?

    I am a team player. I believe that achieving the same result as that of what the client expects from you is the most satisfying aspect of work. And for that, team work with structured hierarchy is very essential. I value the time my seniors spend in mentoring me, my peers spend in discussions with me and my juniors spend in assisting me. Respecting my colleagues’ comments and the ability to value their input is what has helped me reach the stage I am at today.

    I think a lot of corporate lawyers would agree with me when I say that it is impossible to send out a perfect first draft. In the last one and half years of work, I have learnt that stress is only going to add to my mistakes. Getting the concepts clear, discussing it with your colleagues, reading up on it will minimalize the errors and prepare you for subsequent transactions. Also, do hope that a supreme power (read: mentoring partner/ senior associate) is around to save your dayJ

     

    There is a considerable attrition rate at the top law firms, what do you think contributes to this?

    I am sure that the reasons are mostly the same irrespective of the field of work. Some of the common grounds may be immense stress or pressure; internal politics; personal issues or plain boredom.

     

    What would be the one misconception you’d say you’d always held about real life legal work till the time you were an intern but changed once you started working as a lawyer?

    Timelines and deadlines. These two words give every corporate lawyer the same feeling as an e-mail wherein the client negotiates for a lower fee quote. As an intern, I had not been exposed to unimaginable timelines. I was always under the impression that lawyers were above all and our opinion was the law of the land. Apparently not. The clients seem to know, from their experience, as much if not more than a lawyer, the workings of law on a practical basis. And if it is a start-up, they expect the lawyers to learn the law along with them. The respect has been and will always be for the law.

     

    What are the other related fields where a corporate lawyer can try hand apart from joining law firms and corporate houses?

    This era seems to be sprouting new and innovative law related jobs. One can look at being hired at legal recruitment firms; go on secondments to companies where there is no in-house legal team; join legal database compilation teams; involve in translation of legislations from vernacular languages to English and vice versa etc. And not to forget, I think every lawyer should do his/her share of pro bono work.

     

    What is the procedure for internship and recruitment at Chennai office of JSA? Please tell our readers about the same?

    Applicants are encouraged to apply at least 6 months in advance of the month during which internship is sought. Applicants may also apply to internship@jsalaw.com. For further details, please visit http://internship.jsalaw.com/application-process.aspx.

     

    Life for lawfirmites can be very hectic at times. What is your take on work-life balance? How do you unwind?

    I think it is okay to push oneself to a certain limit. Sometimes people work best under pressure as it drives them till they are able to solve their way out. But it is equally important to know and respect one’s health and family and not push away/ neglect the same. I try to keep my weekends as free as possible (atleast Sundays for sure). I find it rejuvenating to open my laptop on a Monday morning if I have seen it last on a Friday night. But since that is a farfetched dream, let’s just go with making the most of weekends and some weeknights when the deliverables for the day are done early.

    For me, unwinding means time for DIY stuff (evidenced from my office desk and walls at home); quality time with family and friends; surfing social media sites and organising/ coordinating events (from family get-togethers to JSA annual attorney retreats).

     

    What is the current scenario of studying corporate law as a career option in India? What would be your parting message to law students who want to be successful in corporate law?

    To graduate in law within the next few years would be ideal for anyone looking to make an impact in this field. New law firms are emerging; established law firms are either expanding or splitting, and all this leads to the same: boom in the job market with inevitable and intense competition.

    My parting message:

    • Know the law and enjoy working with it;
    • Be disciplined in your work; this is no place to be casual or careless;
    • Treat your clients with respect and acknowledge the fact they know the law as much as you do;
    • And finally, let law be the winner.
  • Munish Mehra, Partner, Saikrishna and Associates, on specialising in IPR, changes in career, tips to associates and interns

    Munish Mehra, Partner, Saikrishna and Associates, on specialising in IPR, changes in career, tips to associates and interns

    Munish Mehra belongs to the first batch of NLIU, Bhopal (Batch of 2003). After graduation he joined AMSS as an Associate for 9 months before switching to Anand and Anand where he subsequently became a Managing Associate. Thereafter, he joined Luthra & Luthra Law Offices as a Managing Associate. In January 2014, he joined Saikrishna and Associates and within 11 months, he was promoted to Partner. In this interview he talks about:

    • Academics and specializing in IPR Laws
    • Working at full service law firms and boutique law firms
    • Tips on converting internships to a PPO

     

    What brought you into studying law? Was it fate or plan?

    My foray into studying law was totally unplanned as I do not come from a legal background and am a first generation lawyer. I heard of the National Law School at Bangalore for the first time in 1998 through a friend who happened to be studying there. As luck would have it, the National Law Institute University was set up at Bhopal in the same year that I graduated from school i.e. 1998. I gave the entrance exam for the university, got through and things moved ahead from there.

     

    Please tell us a little about your law school days at the National Law Institute University, Bhopal? How were you at academics?

    As a part of the first batch of NLIU, Bhopal, I think all of us were a little sceptical about how the university would develop in the future. I still remember the first day of the academic session in September 1998 when we started from a premises which had been rented by the Government for the University and we set up the tables and chairs ourselves in a little classroom and got down to studying law. What helped in the initial trimesters was the inclusion of various BA subjects such as sociology, history etc which helped us to get into the groove so to speak before moving onto hardcore legal subjects. I was a relatively good student through my years at the University and finished in the top five of my class when we graduated.

     

    How important do you say is a good CGPA for an illustrious legal career?

    The importance of a good CGPA has increased over the years with the advent of numerous law schools coming up in various other states. However, I firmly believe that to have a good career in the legal profession, a good CGPA is just one element which plays a part in the making of a good lawyer.

     

    You have specialized in IPR law. What made you interested in the same? How do you say one can gain expertise in IPR Law? What does it take to be a good IPR lawyer?

    In the first couple of years at the University, a few seminars and moot courts were organized focusing on IPR law which played a major part in me developing an interest in IPR law. We had not yet studied IPR law till then as they were a part of the 4th year subjects. I then did two internships with Anand & Anand at the end of my 2nd and 3rd years which give me an insight into how IPR law actually works in the real world. The process of gaining expertise in IPR law or becoming a good IPR lawyer is no different from any other branch of law and requires one to be able to grasp the issues involved in the case at hand which forms the basis of your claim or defence, as the case may be, and presenting a well drafted and argued brief before a Court.

     

    You started your career at AMSS as an Associate. How did you secure your appointment? How would you describe your experience working there?

    I was recruited by AMSS pursuant to the first campus placement which happened at the University at the time the first batch was about to pass out. In fact, AMSS was the only law firm which came for the placement of our first batch and two people were recruited by the Firm. Working at AMSS was an interesting experience as even at that time it was considered to be the best full service law firm in India. My area of work involved general corporate commercial advisory and transactions. I think the biggest takeaway from my tenure at AMSS was that it made one realise that there is a sizable difference between studying subjects theoretically in law school and their application in real world deals and transactions as there are so many practical facets and situations which one is not exposed to while studying subjects in law school.

     

    After 9 months of work at AMSS, you switched to Anand and Anand as an Associate and later worked as a Managing Associate there. You also had the oppurtunity to work at Luthra & Luthra Law Offices as a Managing Associate. Please share your experience at both these place.

    It was a conscious decision to make the shift from AMSS to Anand & Anand as after a while I realised that my real interest lay in practising IPR law even though the initiation into the real legal world through AMSS held me in good stead in the coming years. I worked at Anand & Anand for nearly six years during the course of which I led the anti-piracy and anti-counterfeiting practice at the firm and had a wonderful time doing so. Luthra & Luthra posed a new challenge in terms of setting a new practice area from the ground up and it was an interesting experience to go back to a full service set from a boutique firm.

     

    Also, was there any difference in the work environment of these two law firms, considering the fact that Anand and Anand mainly deals with IPR law whereas Luthra & Luthra is a full service law firm?

    The work environment of a full service and boutique firm does vary to a large extent. The environment in a boutique firm tends to be more informal and due to a lesser number of individuals, helps in developing interpersonal relationships faster. A full service firm environment on the other hand is much more regimented and necessarily so because of the sheer number of people working there. Therefore, it does take some time to get used to it if you have joined from a smaller setup.

     

    What qualities do you think helped you for promotion to Managing Associate at Anand and Anand & Luthra and Luthra Law Offices?

    It was a combination of factors such as developing an expertise in my practice area and being able to handle matters competently and independently relatively early in my tenure at Anand & Anand. Most importantly, it helped that I was able to develop a rapport with the clients I worked with regularly so that when the time came for elevation to Managing Associate, clients were more than happy with me leading their matters on a regular basis without requiring a supervising partner. Consequently, my team reported directly to the Managing Partner of the firm.

     

    You were made a partner at Saikrishna and Associates in just Eleven months of work. What would you say helped you to join the ranks of a Partner?

    In January, 2014, I joined Saikrishna and Assciates as an Of-Counsel and within 11 months, I was promoted to the ranks of a Partner. So to say, yes, I was made a partner in Eleven months.

    Well I was a lateral hire from Luthra & Luthra having spent three years independently handling my own team and servicing the clients which had given me work when I shifted from Anand & Anand. I guess the ability to service clients professionally, train a team from the ground up, manage them and independently run successful campaigns on behalf of various clients were factors which led to me being elevated at a Partner at Saikrishna & Associates.

     

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    What kind of effort should a young Associate put in to work to get it appreciated? What distinguishes an Associate with a Partner when it comes to work?

    At an associate level, the requirements are relatively simple in terms of being totally aware of the factual matrix of the matter, doing diligent and through research, being reasonably acceptable at drafting and being disciplined at the work place. If an associate is able to display the abovementioned qualities, any firm would be more than happy as nothing more is expected. The deliverables as expected from a Partner are totally different as he or she is expected to provide strategic advice and guidance to a client on a particular matter or campaign, monitor and supervise the work done by associates, and also ensure that billing targets as given by the Firm are met by his team and recoveries happen in a timely manner.

     

    What does a Partner at a Law Firm like Saikrishna and Associates do? What falls within the scope of your responsibility? Tell us about a typical work day.

    A Partner at Saikrishna & Associates is responsible for supervision of matters handled by his or her team, appearances before various Courts, providing strategic advice in relation to matters, reviewing opinions and memos as required by clients from time to time on various legal aspects, ensuring that billing targets are met by the team and also developing and bringing new work into the Firm. A typical day involves either going to Court for matters as listed, or coming into the office and handling various miscellaneous work such as reviewing opinions, legal pleadings, client meetings and telecons. The Firm does a lot of outstation matters which usually involves travelling to various courts across states and either a Partner or Senior Associate/Associate does that depending upon the importance of the hearing and the complexity of the matter.

     

    How important is it for a Partner of a law firm to be good at business development, or are great lawyering skills enough to become a partner? What separates the people who become Partner from those who don’t?

    Different people have different skill sets and not every Partner in a law firm is a rainmaker. It is of course beneficial for a Partner to be good at business development as that helps in the overall growth of a Firm but at the same time it is important to have senior people in the Firm who are able to handle the day to day supervision and functioning of their respective departments thereby contributing to the overall efficiency and quality of work done by a Firm. I think the ability to handle and supervise complex matters, manage teams independently, provide strategic but practical advice to clients and having the ability to develop long standing relationships with clients which generate revenues for the Firm is what separates people who become Partners from those who don’t. That is not to say that other individuals are not equally important as human talent and expertise is the most valuable resource of a law firm and that is what gives a firm its “reputation”.

     

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    How is the work culture at Saikrishna and Associates? If an Associate commits a mistake or an error what course of action do you follow?

    Saikrishna & Associates has a great and innovative work culture which is quite different from the regimented schedules which some firms insist upon. The focus of the Firm is on “client delivery” and empowering individuals to be responsible for their work product. The result is that you find Associates as well as Partners being happily available to clients 24/7 which is much appreciated. I think the way a Firm deals with a mistake by an Associate is reflected by how its senior people deal with such a situation and in that sense the Firm has preferred to explain the error rather than “shout” at an Associate for committing a mistake.

     

    What are the other areas of study which you think that a law student wanting to excel as a professional in the field of IPR should be proficient in?

    I think it’s important for a lawyer to keep abreast of as many developments in law as possible as you never know on which facet a client may need urgent advice. An IPR matter may involve a taxation or royalty aspect one day or a criminal law aspect another day. Therefore, it’s very difficult to pinpoint any other branch of law which a lawyer must focus on to be proficient in the field of IPR.

     

    What changes has being a Partner brought into your life, do you ever feel that there is excess of work load on you? How do you manage to strike a balance between your personal and professional life?

    Being a Partner does bring added responsibility as you are ultimately responsible to the client for the work product turned out by your team. A Partner, as mentioned earlier does have to make efforts to bring in new clients into the Firm for its overall growth and development. The culture of the workplace makes a huge difference in being able to maintain a balance between work and personal life while a lot of firms may say that they place a great emphasis on the work life balance of their lawyers, our Firm does actually walk the talk so to speak.

     

    The trend is now on gathering various internship experiences at different places. Was the scenario same while you were pursuing law? How is internship helpful for a law student?

    The number of internships as done by students now, are a lot more as compared to when I was in law school. It’s not uncommon to find ten to twelve internships on a CV these days while we used to do one internship a year. An internship is very useful for a law student as you are exposed to so many practical facets of actual legal practice which is impossible to experience in law school. However, it is important to focus on the type of internships which a law student does during his law school years as the quality of internships are more important than the quantity on a CV.

     

    What is the procedure to apply for an internship or recruitment at Saikrishna and Associates? What are the qualities which they look for in their prospective employees?

    We have a Partner who is in charge of internships at the Firm. Prospective internees send their resumes to our HR department pursuant to which the Partner decides the internships to be granted for a particular period. We take special care not to overstuff the firm with a lot of interns at any given time to ensure that all interns get quality exposure to the work being done at the firm.

     

    What do you feel makes an intern stand out and is very important for him to do to have a chance of getting a call back or even a PPO? How do you think interns can get noticed in a positive way in the limited time they have?

    It’s important for an intern to be diligent and disciplined at his or her work. Reasonable oral and written skills, a decent knowledge of first principles and the ability to research properly is what makes an intern stand out from the crowd so to speak. It’s also important for internees to do at least a one month internship to enable the Firm to assess their capabilities as a 10 or 15 day internship, which some students do today to increase their tally of internships doesn’t really help in them either learning anything about the Firm or increasing their chances of getting a PPO.

     

    What would you suggest to someone who is preparing to work with an IPR law firm? What are the basic subjects which one should read and have understanding of before sitting for an interview?

    If an individual is interested in working for an IPR boutique firm then it’s advisable to be aware of the “first principles” and basics of IPR law in relation to Copyrights, Trademarks, Patents etc. An awareness of recent developments in the field of IPR is also very helpful and there are various online blogs and commentaries which regularly report such developments and recent case law.

     

    The question that whether one should specialise in a particular area of law or be more of a general lawyer often comes up before law students. What is your opinion on the same?

    It depends on the type of practice an individual wants to do. As an independent practitioner, it’s necessary to be conversant with various areas of law be it civil, criminal or even company/corporate law litigation and advisory. A lawyer in a law firm will typically specialize in a few areas and will be known in the profession for his expertise in those areas. I have come across very few lawyers working in law firms who can claim to be masters in all fields.

     

    Is there anything you would like to have done differently?

    I think every experience and decision teaches you something new which makes you a better person and professional. So to sum it up, I really would not have done things differently. There is still a long way to go and lawyers never retire anyways!!

     

    Where do you see yourself ten years down the line? Do you aspire to be like somebody from this field?

    Ideally sitting on a beach and relaxing!! On a more serious note, one would like to be someone known in the profession as an individual who is dependable, experienced and sought after. Every lawyer likes to be well known and let them not tell you otherwise. I really don’t aspire to be like someone. I would rather be known as myself ten years down the line.

     

  • Neha Mahyavanshi, Senior Legal Counsel, SAP, on work experience as in-house counsel and in law firms

    Neha Mahyavanshi, Senior Legal Counsel, SAP, on work experience as in-house counsel and in law firms

    Neha Mahyavanshi graduated from National Academy of Legal Studies and Research University, Hyderabad in 2006. She received a pre-placement offer from Amarchand & Mangaldas & Suresh A Shroff & Co. and joined it after graduation. Thereafter, she worked at Wipro Ltd. as Assistant Legal Manager before joining SAP as Senior Legal Counsel-India Subcontinent. In this interview she talks about:

    • Law school experience at NALSAR
    • Working at AMSS and Wipro
    • Being an in-house counsel at SAP

     

    How would you introduce yourself? Tell us a bit about your pre-college years. What motivated you to study law?

    I am primarily a technology lawyer with in-house experience of about 8 years. I grew up in Bangalore and then went on to study law in Hyderabad.  In school, I often took part in debate contests and won a couple of inter school contests. So, I thought that a career in law was apt for me. Also, around the time that I was in 12th standard, there was a lot of talk about law schools, and so I got hooked to the idea of joining a law school.

     

    How would you describe your time at National Academy of Legal Studies and Research University, Hyderabad? How important do you think that extra-curricular activities are to a law student?

    My time at NALSAR was fun, but more importantly, a great training ground for young lawyers to learn to cope in a competitive environment that was to continue and get more intense after college. Yes, I did take part in many extra-curricular activities. I was one of the trio that organized the first ever ‘Carpe Diem’ (NALSAR’s Intra-college fest) and was always a part of the organising committee for ‘Summons’ (NALSAR’s inter-college fest). In my final year, I was elected the Convenor of the Cultural Committee. That’s the year we organized the first ever music concert at NALSAR, with Indian Ocean performing at ‘Summons, 2005’

     

    Tell us about your objectives while in the preliminary years of Law College. What were your plans after graduation?

    I always planned to be an in-house lawyer. I had the chance to intern twice at Wipro during my years at NALSAR. I was totally drawn to the work environment, the balance and professionalism that a corporate environment offered.

     

    Looking back, how significant do you think that your legal education was? When did you happen to experience the learning curve?

    The education that I received at NALSAR must surely have been one of the best. I say this because I often encounter lawyers who don’t seem to have the basic principles of law sorted out. I can say for myself that our professors did a great job. The legal education that I received in NALSAR was a great foundation for my career.

     

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    Please tell us about your experience with regard to your first year of work at AMSS.

    I was taken into AMSS by way of a pre-placement offer. I was taken in as a part of the private equity team and did what all A1s do- due diligences and helping out with the drafting of SHAs and SSAs. While at the firm, I also worked in other practice areas, specifically in the general corporate practice, gaining experience in incorporation of companies and drafting resolutions.

    My biggest take away from AMSS are the drafting skills. All documents, including emails, were drafted with a great deal of care. You don’t often see people paying attention to fonts, justifying or spell checking documents in a corporate set up.

     

    Please tell us about the requisite soft skills which are essential for a young lawyer to build a successful career?

    I was often told by my managers that I am easy to get along with. I guess, being generally congenial has always worked for me.

     

    How was your experience of being an Assistant Legal Manager at Wipro Ltd.? How was the work pressure?

    My years at Wipro were simply great. Wipro Legal in Bangalore is the global headquarters and there is always a lot going on. I see my experience at Wipro as a very solid foundation for my future career aspirations. Wipro is a great training ground for someone who is looking for an in-house career. Wipro allowed for a perfect balance between personal and professional time. I was always excited to go to work every morning (I guess, that says a lot). The biggest positive point in an in-house role is that one enjoys the flexibility of managing one’s own work.

     

    Do you feel that there are differences between students of ‘elite’ law schools and students from other law colleges and traditional universities?

    From my limited experience, I must say that to some degree there is a difference between students of ‘elite’ law schools and other traditional universities in the beginning. I see this difference, not in the passion or dedication that the student brings in, but in the understanding of law and working methodology- which evidently is due to the difference in the quality of legal education. However, a few years into their careers, the difference between the ‘elite’ law school student versus the traditional law university student no longer exists. It’s the passion that one brings to work that makes the difference in the long run.

     

    How did you get to work at SAP as Senior Legal Counsel – India subcontinent? Please share with us your journey from your induction into the company till date?

    SAP was looking to add to their then four-member legal Team in India and I guess I fit the bill. SAP is an enterprise software product company headquartered in Germany. The legal work and work methodology at SAP is different from Wipro. So, initially I had a lot of learning to do. But once you get a hang of how things work here and understand what the commonly used abbreviations and acronyms mean, you are good to go. SAP promotes a great work culture. People are very approachable and the organization is very flat, making the work environment very pleasant. But we have our crunch time during quarter-ends and year ends when most of our business comes in.

    My experience at SAP has been great so far, and I look forward to many more years here. SAP pays attention to each individual’s personal growth, which makes it a great place to stick around.

     

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    Please tell us a bit about your work profile at SAP. What is a normal workday like at SAP?

    I am a part of the four member legal team in India. The SAP India legal team provides an overall support to the organization including sales, operations, purchasing office and admin. The SAP field lawyers in India (like myself) spend a lot of time bridging the gap between local Indian legal practices and SAP’s standard terms of operation. Every day is a new day at work, we have plenty of challenges that keep things interesting.

    There is a lot of work and exposure in SAP, on a typical day I might be on a call negotiating contract with a customer or vendor, drafting order forms, providing opinions to the business, discussing deal structures with finance and pricing teams, drafting notices or responses to customers, discussing litigation strategy for a case in court or just helping an account executive draft a communication to his client. We are very well connected to all aspects of the business and get involved with all the internal departments.

     

    What kind of legal work is there? Are you allowed to interact with clients?

    Ninety nine percent of the legal work of the company is handled by the in-house legal team. There is tons of legal work (like I described above). SAP India legal team interacts with SAP’s customers all the time. We never outsource any customer facing work to law firms.

     

    How much of work is outsourced to law firms? How a law firm is selected for the same?

    Very little work is outsourced, which is primarily litigation. Other than that, we sometimes require external opinions on some matters where we do not have expertise, such as telecom or real estate. In such matters alone we approach external law firms.

    The law firm is selected based on their expertise. We only choose from the top law firms, depending on the practice area.

     

    Would you say that there exists a difference in the working environment of a law firm and legal department of a company?

    Yes, there does. My experiences of working in a law firm (though for a short while) and an in-house department has been very different from each other.

     

    Have you ever considered litigation or starting up on your own?

    I never considered litigation because I always wanted to be an in-house lawyer.

    Though I have not considered it myself, I know many in-house counsels who have started their own firms.

     

    What are the primary essentials of a corporate lawyer? How do you say a fresh graduate can work on building these skills?

    I don’t have a list of essentials for a corporate lawyer. A degree in law and the right attitude is all one needs. Also, I think doing the right internships while at college is important. Internships allow for two way assessment. The student gets a feel of the work place and also gets a chance to create an impression with the organizations that she/he is interning at.

     

    If you could list out 3 activities which on a scale of priority, should be at the top in any law student’s life (given that he wants to secure the same set of achievements as you), what would those be?

    Ensuring decent grades;

    Corporate Internships (including in-house and law firm); and

    Taking on leadership roles in student organizations and participating in extra-curricular activities.

     

    What would be your advice to young law students? How do you think that they should approach their career?

    Passion for your work is the one most important ingredient for success, I think I said this a couple of times through the interview. The other, of course, is hard work. Everything flows and falls into place if one is passionate and willing to slog it out. So, to young law students, I would say- out of the fifty odd courses that you study and the various internships that you take up, try to spot what you are passionate about and start working on it from the time you are in college. Whatever the field of interest, stay true to it and build on it by way of internships and writing articles etc. If you choose a clear path, it may be easier to get a headstart to a great career.

  • Pranay Agrawala, Ex-Law-firmite on starting up with Lex Adista and experience in litigation

    Pranay Agrawala, Ex-Law-firmite on starting up with Lex Adista and experience in litigation

    Pranay Agrawala is a Symbiosis graduate who had interned at Dua Associates and Ernst & Young among others. Upon graduating, he joined Khaitan, Jayakar, Sud & Vohra as an Associate after which he joined Trilegal and worked there for three more years. Thereafter he started a private litigation practice. He subsequently joined the Chambers of Senior Advocate, Mr. Siddharth Luthra (former ASG) before starting his own law firm, Lex Adista. In this interview he talks about:

    • Interning at the Supreme Court, Dua Associates and E&Y
    • Working at KJSV, Trilegal and Chambers of Mr. Luthra
    • Experience and challenges at a startup law firm

     

    Tell us a bit about your childhood and pre-college life as well as educational background. Did you have lawyers in your family?

    During my childhood my family moved around quite a lot and I had the benefit of experiencing different cultures and becoming comfortable with varied thought processes and customs. This has been one of the biggest parts of my school education and has proved to be invaluable in my growth. I never had any lawyers in my family and throughout my childhood, I didn’t have any interactions with lawyers either. The profession was a mystery to me until I joined Symbiosis and did my first internship, with Mr. Dushyant Dave no less.

     

    Tell us something about your college life? What activities did you participate in?

    During college like most teenagers I concentrated on enjoying my life. I travelled, played sports all day etc., but now I feel that I missed out in participating in law school centric events. Having never been guided properly as to what would help me grow as a lawyer, I never benefitted from all the things a good law school has to offer. It was only towards my later years in college, especially after some serious internships, when I realised the value of extra-curricular activities, like mooting and client counselling, writing research papers etc.

     

    What were your areas of interest during your graduation? How did you go about developing acumen in these areas?

    Law school, is not geared towards exposing a student to the ‘practice’ of law; Theory and understanding statutes, philosophy etc. were given a significant focus. I still feel that the course design and structure lacked the foresight that is conducive to learning Law. Thinking back, subjects like jurisprudence, history of courts, administrative law seemed mundane and uninteresting because of a lack of perspective, but the knowledge of such subjects is greatly beneficial to practising law. Interests for me were mostly found through internships where exposure to the various practice areas made me realise the beauty of the English language; the immense application of intellect required in drafting statutes, contracts or any legal document; the sheer application of intelligence that can make the difference between a good lawyer and spectacular lawyering; and most importantly the power of knowledge. Practice areas in law became secondary to me, just the thrill of the practice of law was paramount.

     

    What kind of internships did you do in your law school? Which internships will you consider to be right at the top and why?

    Having had little or no exposure to the profession prior to going to law school, I realised the value of internships only by the third year. Despite having interned in every break, I really started absorbing the nuances of being a lawyer towards the end of the second year. Thereafter, I tried to intern at as many different organizations as possible. I interned at the Supreme Court, Dua Associates, Ernst & Young and many other firms. The reason for this was so I could find my practice area and an environment that I would feel drawn to. Although this approach had its downsides with respect to securing a job right after law school, I needed to know I was doing what I liked. An internship where I really felt like I was a lawyer was at E&Y. I feel it was a combination of maturity as a student and the good opportunities and structure at E&Y. From that point on I knew that I can be a good lawyer.

     

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    Did you learn any skills while interning? What are these skills and how did you acquire them?

    Like I have mentioned above, I learned everything that I knew about being a lawyer from internships and not only from law school. During internships, notably at Dua Associates, I realised that if you desire to learn, you have to have a combination of enthusiasm (not to a point of being nauseating to associates) and hard work. The better you assist your bosses the more they want to work with you. Observe, take extensive notes, ask the right questions and don’t be afraid to be called stupid (as long as you don’t ask the same question twice); these cannons were what helped me learn at internships and I also maintain these till date. One can learn much by just paying attention.

    Needless to say, I benefitted a lot from lawyers who were happy to explain concepts and teach a young aspiring lawyer. I have many to thank for my legal education, beyond college and till today.

     

    What do you have to say about mooting at law school and legal writing for journals? Do they have any ‘bonus’ value when seeking jobs?

    Like I said before, mooting, legal writing, etc. are very important. Participating in these extra-curriculars helps build confidence and skills, which are basic skills every lawyer needs to master, and like any other thing – sooner is definitely better. I gained most of this, under extreme pressure, while working and regretted not having honed these skills in college. Although, it’s a trade off for students, whether to be entirely entrenched in college or to go out and explore the world and experience life during college. Considering the nature of our profession, college is often the last opportunity to expand your horizons.

    While seeking a job, it can make the difference between getting hired and passed over. It also makes a difference in the initial upward growth as someone with a certain degree of skill may be at an advantage.

     

    Upon graduating, you started working at Khaitan, Jayakar, Sud & Vohra (“KJSV”) as an Associate. How did you secure your appointment? Please describe the interview and induction procedure for a fresher?

    By the time I interned at KJSV, I had gained a lot of focus in what is expected from a lawyer. My natural attitude and approach to matters was noticed and I was able to convert that into a job opportunity. Also, the fact that my focus was on learning and gaining exposure meant that a smaller law firm was a great place to start, and was consequently easier to break into. In my personal view, in the beginning of the career a smaller law firm generally places more trust in you and consequently, bestows larger responsibility, helping you learn faster.

     

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    After having worked at Khaitan & Jayakar  for a year, how did the shift to Trilegal take place? Please tell us a little about your work experience and life at Trilegal.

    Given the fact that I wanted to have an all round experience in Law, after one year of practice on the civil side of litigation, I started to seek opportunities in law firms with a corporate profile. My search began a few months before the shift and I was willing to forego pay and position within the organization for a chance to gain exposure. Trilegal gave me an opportunity and I leaped at it, making the change to corporate and M&A. The shift was not easy and the expectations were often overwhelming. Trilegal is of course a great place to work and has a highly motivated team of lawyers, who never cease to set the bar of performance higher. The most important learning I took away from Trilegal was the attention to detail and research that needs to go behind any advice or action of a legal professional. As a lawyer, one is only as good as the knowledge he brings to the table, whether it be the negotiating table or the bar. This fact was driven home daily at Trilegal. I still put the same amount of attention to detail and set the bar of research very high in my own practice and with my associates.

     

    You left one of the finest law firms in India and started your own independent private practice. What were your reasons for moving from a corporate setting to litigation?

    I had not left Trilegal to start a litigation practice, but soon realised that to start a corporate practice I would have to create some credibility in the market as also become a brand on my own, so to speak. Having left the firm with a few clients (my own and not from Trilegal) already available to me, I had a steady stream of work which unfortunately lasted for only short while, and was ultimately not sustainable. Litigation is a practice more geared towards individual lawyers seeking clients and creating a presence in the profession, I simply had to shift practice areas to survive.

     

    After a few months of  your independent practice, you  have  joined  the Chambers of  Senior Advocate, Mr. Siddharth Luthra, where you have  worked for almost one year. Please tell us about your experience working under the  supervision of  Mr. Luthra.

    Like I have explained above, I needed to expand my practice to stay afloat independently. Mr. Luthra was extremely kind to me and gave me an opportunity to join his chamber while he was ASG. This proved to be a baptism by fire, as the office of the ASG was extremely busy and the intensity was only exacerbated by Mr. Luthra’s insatiable appetite for work. I did feel that I was at a slight advantage, having come from Trilegal and being adjusted to intense timelines and high expectations. Bringing my law firm approach to Mr. Luthra’s chamber helped me transition easily with respect to what was expected of me.

    I likened my stint with Mr. Luthra as a sort of LL.M, where I learned the finer nuances of the practice from a seasoned and highly successful Senior Advocate. I tried to grab as much work as possible to maximize my learning and also to increase my exposure to Mr. Luthra. Court craft, legal drafting, framing arguments and managing clients’ expectations as an individual lawyer were some of areas where I focused my attention. Exposure to the Supreme Court and representing the Union of India were an icing on the cake.

     

    Please tell us about your experience with regard to your first few sessions in court. Has it become more difficult for a fresher to achieve success?

    After completing roughly an LL.M’s worth of time learning from Mr. Luthra, I once again took the tough decision to go independent and start a practice. This time, however, I was better prepared and more mature. I did not limit myself to litigation or corporate law as I felt that I was capable of providing clients with both facets of professional services. Appearing in court is a nerve racking experience at first, no matter how well prepared you are, stage fright does kick in. Keeping a calm demeanour and retaining your presence of mind, while having the eyes of all your peers on you is not an easy task. Being extremely well prepared and keeping easily understandable, well structured notes was of great help and still is.

    Success is never easy. Those who say they got it easy are either being modest, or will have to struggle at some point to retain the success. The harder you work, the more opportunities for ‘success’ will become available to you. In the end though, success is relative.

     

    Your main area of practice consists of  corporate/civil advisory and litigation. Please elaborate on the cases you normally deal with and how has been your experience so far.

    Coming from the varied background that I do, I afford my clients a unique perspective to legal issues and advisory. At a given time, I feel comfortable taking care of regulatory compliances and commercial work, while at the same time I can advise on dispute resolution and litigation. I feel that this gives my clients a great deal of comfort, especially when it come to handling contractual disputes which require the ability to assess and understand complex SHAs or EPC contracts and to be able to build an effective strategy.

    Presently, I have a bouquet of technology and engineering companies as my clients. This is a sector of industry which has always been of interest to me and being a product of the internet age, clients find it easier to interact with me with respect to the technological aspects of commercial contracts. Of course, having a working knowledge of the internet, computer systems and engineering goes a long way in impressing a client, who then does not have to waste precious man hours in briefing their lawyers on how technology works. Relying on this unique blend which I feel I bring to the profession, I have today managed to start my own law firm, we are called Lex Adista and are a full service law firm. I represent the firm in corporate and commercial matters while my partners handle civil and criminal litigation/disputes.

     

    What were the difficulties you faced in the early days of your practice? How difficult would you say it is to build a reputed practice? How many years of hard work does it require to build a firm clientele?

    The difficulties are not far from what one would imagine. Finding clients in an industry which is teeming with talented and hard working professionals is not an easy task. To be able to sustain a steady stream of work, turning it around and finding more work to keep you going is a daily struggle. The quality of work is what ultimately decides whether your practice will be successful or not, and maintaining that quality is essential. I will give you the exact number of years it takes to build a successful law firm when I feel Lex Adista is a success.

     

    Did you build everlasting relation with your clients? Please share some of your secret tips on how to boost fiduciary relations with the people we serve?

    Having great interpersonal skills and managing client expectations are the basics for building everlasting relationships with clients. However, to maintain an everlasting professional relationship you have to provide top notch, intelligent legal advice. At the end of the day, the quality of your services and professionalism is what makes clients stick with you.

     

    What is your workday like? Are there new challenges every day or did work fall into a predictable pattern?

    My workday is quite varied. As a partner in a small start up law firm, each day I have to give equal importance to internal management, business development, client interaction and at the same time produce deliverables for clients. While it may be tiring, it’s never tiresome.

    We are constantly trying to pick up new work and are not confined to any particular sector. We even advise musicians, artists, startups, designers and other creative professionals who help keep the work exciting. Sometimes, as a bonus we even get passes to upcoming events for the associates!

     

    If someone does not go to a top law school, would you say he still has a shot at a great career in law?

    Of course! A lawyer never stops learning. One is always learning on the job and what a lawyer makes of his opportunities is what creates the opportunity of having a great career. Never stop working and focus on learning, this is the advice I would give to anyone who wants to grow. I too will never stop following this.

     

    When you hire interns and associates under you, what kind of qualities do you look for? What should an intern or aspiring lawyer do to get noticed in a positive way?

    At Lex Adista, and particularly under me, we focus on an appetite for learning. I love to share knowledge and find that a heated discussion based on research is a great way to find solutions for legal issues. Attention to detail and being able to present a legal argument with proper justification is the basics of any lawyering. For an intern to get noticed or for that matter for an associate to get hired, I look for individuals with a thorough approach. Any point of law can be explained on the basis of solid research and reasoning, reliance on judicial pronouncements, commentaries and the application these to the facts of the matter at hand. Creativity and a willingness to learn are essential in my book.

     

    Where do you see yourself and your firm in five to ten years?

    We are presently trying to build a successful law firm. Currently, we are looking at expanding, both, our lawyer base and our client base and hope to do each aggressively. At the same time, we are conscious of the fact that our quality and focus should not get diluted in the process. Perhaps, it is too soon for me to predict where Lex Adista will be in five to ten years, but where I would want it to be is quite clear in my head.

     

    What would be your parting message to law students who want to litigate just after graduation?

    For any aspiring litigator, the most important advice I can give is to focus on gathering a variety of experience and to look for opportunities to learn. For a successful litigation practice having exposure to every field of law is very valuable, and can be gained in the earlier years of practice easier than later. I too pushed myself to constantly be involved in different practice areas of Law to build an all round understanding of the practice. Getting attached to big names and going after CV value can sometimes backfire, when you realise after some years of practice you may have learned very little. A lawyer is a sum total of his experience, while frequent changes can be detrimental to getting hired, knowledge and experience will always shine through.