Super Lawyer

Tag: Law Firm

  • Vatsal Gaur, Associate, Khaitan & Co., on receiving PPOs, induction and work at top law firms

    Vatsal Gaur, Associate, Khaitan & Co., on receiving PPOs, induction and work at top law firms

    Vatsal Gaur graduated from National Law University, Jodhpur in 2011. Having decided early on that he wanted to be a lawyer specializing in Mergers & Acquisitions and Private Equity, he interned with top-tier law firms such as Trilegal, AZB & Partners and J. Sagar Associates. He received two PPOs by the end of his third year. After graduation, he worked at J. Sagar Associates, Gurgaon for almost three years before joining Khaitan & Co., Mumbai in May, 2014. In this interview he talks about:

    • The importance of CGPA, moots, publications and debates for a legal career
    • Pursuing a career in corporate law
    • Working at top law firms like J. Sagar Associates and Khaitan & Co.

     

    Tell us a bit about your childhood. How did you decide to study law? Did you have lawyers in your family?

    I’ll answer the last question first. I’m a first generation lawyer. I do not have lawyers in the family. To be honest, law for me was just a choice I made out of high school – as with most kids out of school, we are all supposed to miraculously arrive at our future career paths, and mine happened to be law. I’m quite satisfied with my decision, though. When I connect the dots backwards, I don’t have many misgivings on my choice of career.

    I grew up in a modest background, and with both my parents being civil servants, it was always clear that I really had to make my own mark, and set my own goals. Law was one of those goals. I did not have a fall back option, and I am glad for it.

     

    Do you think having family members or mentors with a legal background help in this profession?

    Yes, most certainly. Having a legacy in any field is irreplaceable. I have read so many times how people quite casually disregard the benefit of a legacy. However, I wouldn’t like to mince words answering this question. In whatever field of law you are in, whether it is corporate or litigation, at the end of the day, contacts help. Equally competent individuals would most likely execute tasks with more or less equal efficiency. Business development and building a clientele is ultimately what sets you apart. And, it is here where having a legacy can be a major facilitator. Having said so, one must not feel disheartened with the lack of a legacy, and instead think of such a void as an opportunity to develop your own legacy. There are innumerable precedents of first generation lawyers who have done well for themselves, and who continue to do so.

     

    Tell us about your law school experience. Share some highlights from your college days that shaped you as a lawyer.

    I ranked in the bottom 15% of my batch in my first semester – maybe because I was experimenting with the ‘law school experience’, or maybe simply on account of youthful incredulity – it doesn’t matter. This had caused a major setback to me back then as I usually fared well in high school; however, in the same breath, I would also say that this was the most beneficial experience for me. I tasted what it felt like to not finish at the top, and what followed was a lot of toil and sweat and more toil and sweat to make amends. The race to the finish line, having started late, is what shaped me up.

    By third year, I had participated in some prestigious moot court competitions, broken ceilings that I thought existed (not literally!), published a fair number of articles (including in business dailies), gotten into public speaking, and of course, continued playing football.

    Not many know this (as I never made a big deal of it, and still would not like to), but I bagged two pre-placement offers before I completed my third year at law school from two of the leading national law firms (and a call back internship with the third, which too was very likely to have culminated into an offer). None of the holders of high CGPAs had an offer by third year.

    The only reason I am sharing this on this forum is to perhaps be a motivation for those who may feel they have been side-lined on account of not having grades. My word of advice to you is: Be a rebel, but not one without a cause. Instead, have a cause to back it.

    Therefore for me, the battles I fought in University, the reality checks I faced early on in my time there shaped me up tremendously. In fact, I feel living in a residential set up away from home (in environments which can get quite demanding as well as harshly competitive) greatly equipped me for life ahead.

     

    How did you fare in your academics at NLU, Jodhpur? Would you say a great CGPA is a necessity to kickstart a good career in the legal profession?

    Following from my response above, I eventually fared well in academics. However, due to the damage done to my GPA during first year, I didn’t finish in the top 10 percentile. At the same time, I finished high enough to be shortlisted for all campus recruitment opportunities. In the end, my CGPA never mattered.

    Would I say a ‘great’ CGPA is a necessity? – a big NO! A ‘good’ CGPA and a ‘balanced CV’ will help just as much, if not more. At least, this should hold true in case an individual is looking at being a transactional lawyer or a litigator.

    I feel the only place a ‘great’ CGPA helps is to secure a job at a UK magic circle firm or if you are keen on academics or, lastly, in securing scholarships/ funding for an LL.M programme. If you are interested in any of these, you should definitely have an eye out for your grades.

    At work, and in daily life, what matters is grit, confidence, hard work, more hard work, real time application of legal principles and the ability to be a problem solver. At many instances you will be faced with situations where you will need to back yourself consciously. Grades are forgotten once you start work just as high school grades are forgotten once you enter college.

     

    Conferences, debates and Moot Court Competitions – do you think participating in these extracurricular activities helps a student in the long run?

    Yes. I feel any form of self-expression is greatly rewarding. Having participated in a variety of conferences, moots and debates, I can dare say the experiences gained greatly helped me develop my legal skills ‘qualitatively’.

    Mooting taught me research and patience; parliamentary debating taught me how not to rely on rote learning, and instead learn the art of expanding on bullets; conferences helped me express myself in forums where I spoke in front of people much more experienced than me in the fields I chose to research.

     

    You have published a lot of papers in various prestigious journals. How should one go about writing papers and getting the same published? Can you give us a few tips to ace the art of paper writing?

    Writing for me started on account of being able to have a stronger CV, but as I went along, it just became a mode of self-expression for me, and I write just for the pleasure of such self-expression.

    I feel each one us have our own ways of self-expression, and I unfortunately do not profess to have ‘aced’ the art of paper writing, and I will, therefore, not be able to provide a one-size-fits-all tool-kit. However, what I could set out, are broad parameters that young authors should keep in mind when writing. Again, these too would vary on what forum one is addressing and your ultimate readers.

    Focus points are:

    • Have your aim straight. Know the point you want to make (similar to a moral to the story)
    • Clear expression
    • Lead your reader to your aim (i.e., to the moral of the story)
    • Do not overstress upon or overdo anything
    • Sophistication over sophistry; preciseness over verbosity

     

    Tell us how paper publishing and other co-curricular activities helped you in acquiring skills that are important for a successful legal career.

    I feel legal writing does play a positive influence in one’s legal career. Similarly, participation in other academic as well as non-academic co-curricular activities also has the effect of shaping your profile.

    At the end of the day, when you get out of law school, people will not recall what grades you have; what they will recall is your impact value. Solid mooting experience helps develop this facet. Similarly, legal writing greatly enables and facilitates drafting work.

     

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    What kind of internships did you do while you were a student? Any remarkable experiences during your internships that shaped your career choices later?

    I focused very early on, on pursuing corporate/ M&A internships. I was lucky to have secured some good internships to start with. I remember that I did not take a single vacation during law school and worked back to back to complete three internships each year. I feel my best internships were at AZB & Partners, J. Sagar Associates and Trilegal. I received a good amount of mentoring and challenging assignments. I was also given a great deal of responsibility, just what I needed as I was working my way up to a good CGPA after the initial hit.

    I feel all my internships had very many remarkable experiences, right from getting a ‘outstanding’ rating from Mr. Gopal Subramaniam during my internship at his office in my 2nd year of University to being able to work on PE/ VC term sheets and research on very contemporary corporate law issues during my internships at Trilegal and JSA.

    I feel I was lucky to have met some really good mentors who saw talent in me, and nurtured it. ‘That’ nurturing did for me, what law school could not – feed my thirst for knowledge and the practice of transactional law.

     

    After graduating from NLU, Jodhpur you had worked at J. Sagar Associates for almost 3 years and then joined Khaitan & Co in May of last year. Please tell us a little about your work profile at these firms and the responsibilities you have been entrusted with.

    Having set myself the goal of being a transactional lawyer, I joined the M&A/ PE team at JSA, Gurgaon. Given that I had started working in this area of corporate law pretty early on in my internships (as early as 2nd year of law school), I had a good hold on the core essentials. Also, given that I had received a PPO from JSA pretty early in law school, the gestation period for me was practically non-existent as I had done rigorous internships with the firm before joining it, where I worked more like an associate than an intern. This allowed me to get right into the thick of things very early on in my legal career. My first legal due diligence for a PE deal came to me in my 2nd week, and transaction documentation started by the end of the first month. I will always be grateful to the firm and my seniors for believing in me so early on and giving me the necessary impetus required in order to develop a quick and steep learning curve – one that I have greatly benefitted from.

    I made a shift to Khaitan & Co’s Mumbai office in May of 2014 and I have greatly enjoyed being part of this set-up. The firm is highly institutionalised and is run on a merit-based system where lineage and family is surmounted by meritocracy and integrity. Joining as a lateral, I have felt very welcomed by the establishment and my colleagues.

    My responsibilities at Khaitan & Co primarily involve advising private equity/ venture capital investors and private M&A players on their investments/ acquisitions, general regulatory advice around structuring of transactions, conducting and leading diligences, negotiating, vetting and preparing transaction documents, and finally, assisting in closing of transactions. We also advise some promoters and target companies during sell-side mandates where we need to change hats during negotiations. My responsibilities at JSA were broadly similar to those described above.

     

    Your main practice area covers Mergers & Acquisitions and Private Equity investments. What prompted you to choose these practice areas? Please share with our readers.

    I was always a bit of an outlier in University, insofar as I started on corporate/ M&A internship roles very early on while most of my batch mates were still being experimental (trying different kinds of internships). Therefore, by the end of 2nd year, I had pretty much decided that I wanted to be a transactional lawyer driving M&A and PE deals. Each of my internships from 2nd year until 5th year were ‘only’ with M&A teams of the various firms I interned with, and I made that choice at the time of applying to these firms. On account of this exposure (quite self-induced, in my case), M&A/ PE was the only natural choice for me.

    I don’t know if the above answer will help your readers, but I suppose what I could broadly state is that you should try and direct your internships. Not everyone is born to do corporate law. There are so many options in law firms – right from competition, tax, infrastructure, banking to intellectual property. Similarly, nowadays, the trend seems to be changing finally where a lot of law graduates from top law schools are opting for litigation over law firms.

    I will highly recommend law students to not follow the herd, and in fact, chose the branch of law that is of most interest. M&A/ PE interested me the most – it really was, and still is, that simple.

     

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    Corporate Law sometimes comes with a humongous workload. What made you gravitate towards this field? How do you manage the workload and your personal life?

    To be honest, I did not have much of a work-life balance in my first two years. I missed all important events – birthdays, anniversaries, the works, and all along I never seemed to mind. I really was a work horse (and do not regret it).

    But over time, I suppose one naturally realises how to prioritise things, and it is something that frankly everyone in the field is constantly trying to learn every day.

    To be honest here, in my view work-life balance is a major misnomer. And the reason I say this is simple. If you really think about it, 80% of our awake time is spent at work, so it is essential you enjoy your work. If you enjoy 80% of your awake time, you automatically enjoy 80% of your ‘life’ time. The balance 20% is what you really need to really think about, in my view, and make the most of!

    With so much information available online nowadays about how demanding different career lifestyles are, I am sure people are well familiarised with a lawyer’s work-life. And to this extent, all I would say is you just need to brace yourself for the long haul if corporate law is your chosen career path.

    I am not a very good example of someone who manages work and personal life too well, so unfortunately I will not be able to answer your last question. However, I would say that I do try and balance work with pleasure every now and then (just as most others also try and do), as it is vital to take a break and refresh yourself whenever you can.

     

    Many law students strongly believes that getting a job at one of the top 3 law firms is mostly about securing a high CGPA. Would you agree?

    After reading my responses above, I hope I can, to whatever extent possible, change this impression! Law firms recruit based on merit, and while a high CGPA is an easy way to assess merit, in practice, law firms do not see that in isolation. I feel having a good internship experience coupled with a well-rounded profile (which includes extra-curricular initiatives as described above) matters far more than just purely a high CGPA driven CV.

    Once you are in the grind (i.e., the workspace), it does not matter what your grades were. What matters is how well you perform, how well you execute deliverables, and how well you can display your skill set. To this end, a person with a well-rounded profile has far greater chances at excelling than someone who only has high grades to show on a CV – purely because the former kind has tested him or herself against far greater experiences and challenges, and is thus more ‘anti-fragile’ (to borrow from Nassim Nicholas Taleb).

    Notwithstanding any of what I have said, what matters most is how technically sound a to-be lawyer is – that is the single most important aspect that recruiters consider, and is irreplaceable as a skill set.

     

  • Adhirath Singh Palawat, Associate, Allen & Overy, on all about the magic circle firms

    Adhirath Singh Palawat, Associate, Allen & Overy, on all about the magic circle firms

    Adhirath Singh Palawat specializes in Mergers and Acquisitions at Allen & Overy. He graduated from National Law University Jodhpur with Honours in Business Law as well as the Mathur Amar Laxmi and Gopal Mal Mehta Memorial Gold Medals for his academic performance. He was also felicitated by the Ministry of Human Resources Development, Government of India for Excellence in Academics.

    He successfully applied to the Vacation Placement programme at both Allen & Overy and Herbert Smith Freehills. While working as a Legal Advisor at Allen & Overy, London, he underwent a six month secondment to Dubai, where he still works. In this interview he talks about:

    • Balancing academics and extra-curricular activities in law school
    • Building a career in corporate law
    • Vacation Placement, Training Contract and Secondment at Allen & Overy

     

    How would you introduce yourself? Could you please share a little bit of what motivated you to pursue law as a career?

    I never know how to answer this one! I’ll play it safe – I am originally from Jaipur; I did my LL.B from NLU, Jodhpur with Honours in Business Law; I presently work with Allen & Overy LLP.

    I was always fascinated by law as a subject because both my parents hold law degrees (though neither of them pursued a career in law), but I decided quite late to explore this academic interest as a career option. If I had to pin it down to something, I would say my interest in law arose because I have always perceived it to be an instrument of social change. Unlike the natural sciences, law is a subject by the people for the people and this aspect of ‘social contract’ always fascinated me. The other reason is that law is a subject that emphasises a lot on soft skills. To be a good lawyer, you need to possess much more than pure technical skills; this is something that resonated a lot with my views on education and what I wanted for myself professionally.

     

    Tell us a little about your law school days at National Law University, Jodhpur? How would you compare NLUJ with other law schools?

    I don’t think I am in a position to objectively compare NLUJ with any other university, but in absolute terms, I look back on my five years at university as the best years of my life (so far). Like any other opportunity in life, university experience is only as good or bad as you make it to be. Are there universities with a better brand name than NLUJ out there? Of course. Does that really make a difference in your quality of education/life and options in the long run? I don’t think so.

    Learning from your peers is an underrated concept in our education system. I personally was thankful for the opportunity to meet so many brilliant people, each impressive in his or her own unique way, be it in academics, mooting, debating or creative pursuits. I think I learnt much more outside the classroom than inside. There are always things one could do differently but, all in all, I had a fulfilling experience.

     

    Upon graduation you received the Mathur Amar Laxmi Gold Medal and the Gopal Mal Mehta Memorial Gold Medal for your CGPA. Please tell us about the manner in which you approached academics while in college.

    I believe one’s academic experience is largely dependent on personal targets and what one wants out of the university experience. Although I was always keen to learn more and gain as much knowledge as possible, I was never in constant pursuit of knowledge; in my view that is insatiable. Time is a precious commodity and everything comes at a cost. I made a very conscious decision to prioritise and divide my time among the various activities I was involved in. I approached knowledge as a means to an end and not an end in itself.

    The truth is that any profession, law included, is result oriented. There are different ways of achieving it as long as you are focussed on the result. I was quite particular about ensuring that my concepts were as clear as possible – to me that matters the most. Academics were very important and I ensured that I was always well-prepared before the exams. But beyond that, I was never one to reserve time every day for studying; I felt there were lots of other things that required my attention and time on a daily basis.

    In my opinion, the trick is in finding a balance, between academics and extra-curriculars, between dedication and efficiency. It is a very personal decision. For me, it was much more important to grow holistically and become a better-rounded person than focus solely on academics and I have never regretted that.

     

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    You were recognised by the Ministry of Human Resources Development, Government of India for Excellence in Academics. Please tell us about this felicitation.

    I received a letter from the Government of India informing me that I had been selected for the recognition and that I was invited to attend the Republic Day parade in New Delhi from the Prime Minister’s box as a guest of the Prime Minister. They had selected students from across the country. I understand this was based on my academic performance at school and during the first year of university. I was really grateful for the recognition.

     

    You were also a member of the Editorial Committee. How significant do you think that the experience was?

    I had been an editor of my school’s magazine and wanted to continue such involvement during university. I was a member of the Editorial Committee during the first year. The experience was quite enriching for various reasons, not least of which was the opportunity to learn how to work with different people. First year is a time when everyone is still in the process of discovering themselves, their interests, their ambitions and what activities they would like to pursue in the future. I eventually realized that I was more passionate about and could make a greater difference as a member of the Academic Support and Literary Committee, which I was involved with for the four years that followed.

     

    You’ve held multiple positions of responsibility throughout your college life. We would like to know your opinion on how significant they were. Please tell us about your experience and how you managed time effectively?

    For me, the significance of these responsibilities cannot be overstated. To a large extent, my extra-curricular pursuits defined my university experience. I genuinely enjoyed getting involved with as many things as possible. Leadership opportunities are an excellent way for one to not just improve the lives of others around them but also, more importantly, oneself as a community member.

    I had exposure to a variety of leadership roles, most notable ones being the Student Chief Counsel (President of the student body), Convenor of the Academic Support and Literary Committee and the Co-President of the University’s first literary-cultural festival. These experiences taught me invaluable lessons in handling various situations and people, something I would have never otherwise learnt to quite the same extent.

    Time management is always an issue but then again university life is all about time management. I believe if you are passionate about something, you make the time for it. It is important to be realistic though; you can only do so much. These activities taught me the skill of time management, something that (as we all know) comes in handy when one starts working.

     

    How important do you think extra-curricular activities are to a law student? Please tell us about the way you approached extra-curricular activities in college.

    It is very important for one to pursue his/her interests throughout university life and, as much as possible, afterwards. It is our extra-curricular endeavours which add personality to our mundane profiles. Even on a practical level, who would you rather work with – Candidate A, who has a GPA of 9.5/10, has written several papers on constitutional law and did an internship with the largest firm in India; or Candidate B, who has a GPA of 8.5/10 but was a member of the environmental club, played the guitar, participated in moot courts and represented his university at a theatre festival? I appreciate that there may be people who pick Candidate A, but I personally would rather work with Candidate B.

    I always advise against the exercise of ‘CV Building’ and advocate ‘Personality Building’. It is much more important to do what you want than what you think others would like to see in your CV. Don’t aim to be the person whom all seniors at big law firms would want to hire, be the person with whom all juniors at a firm (big or small) would want to work.

    I did what interested me but never for my CV. Not focussing on the things that were not right for me gave me the time to focus on the right ones. There were times when balancing was tough but because I was truly passionate about what I was doing, it was easy to pull through.

     

    How relevant do you think internships are for law students? Did you have any such experience during your internships which inspired you to pursue a career in corporate law?

    Internships are quite important to get a sense of what work is like and discover one’s interests. Internships also serve the function of putting you on the firm’s radar. Sensibly planned internships can no doubt help in recruitment. I would, however, advise against relying solely or too much on an internship to determine a firm’s environment or the kind of work you would be doing.

    I started interning with law firms mostly after I had decided to pursue Business Law as my Honours. I wanted to see the kind of work and options available. My internship experiences validated my choice (of Business Law) to some extent and gave me an opportunity to understand what I was getting myself into.

    There is an increasing practice nowadays of doing premature internships or too many internships. I can’t say whether it is right or wrong, but I feel that students need to take a step back and evaluate what they want. Interning with a corporate law firm in your first or second year may not be as beneficial as you want it to be and you lose out on an opportunity to explore different career options.

     

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    You’ve interned in quite a few top-tier law firms. How did you plan your internships?

    My intention was to experience as many different setups as possible to help me decide what I ultimately wanted to do. I adopted a tiered approach. I started with firms where the teams were smaller and the work was more generic. With time, I started applying for the larger firms where I was exposed to niche areas and ‘top-tier’ work environments. This gradual increase in the scale of firms helped me get a clearer picture across the spectrum by the time I graduated.

     

    We would love to hear about your work profile. Please tell us about the responsibilities you are entrusted with. What made you choose this particular avenue?

    During my Training Contract with Allen & Overy, I did six-month seats in international capital markets, banking and finance, and corporate. I found corporate work to be the most interesting and diverse and decided to qualify (a term used in UK firms for when you join a department permanently after your TC) to the corporate team in Dubai.

    I specialise in Mergers and Acquisitions. I do a lot of private M&A, some public M&A (equity capital markets), venture capital and private equity work; these are all related. The good thing about corporate is that no two deals are identical and the work can be quite varied, that keeps the monotony at bay! On a typical deal, I find myself negotiating and drafting transaction documents (like share purchase agreements and shareholders’ agreements) and handling transaction logistics. A not-so-fun task, though a very important one, for a junior is conducting (the much dreaded) due diligence.

     

    How did you develop your interest and knowledge base in corporate law?

    I have answered about my interest above. As for knowledge, even though India and UK have largely similar legal systems, there were a few English-law specific points of corporate law that I picked-up as I went along. For any transactional lawyer, the main learning starts only once you start working. It is not possible for anyone to read through and retain the entire Companies Law. But it’s surprising how much you pick-up in small batches by working on deals and transaction documents.

     

    What is an average working day like for you? Please tell us about the same.

    As everyone knows, in a law firm, the actual working hours are quite different from the official hours. What I do depends on the deal flow at the time. I wouldn’t want to bore people with details of corporate work but in short, there are good days and not so good days (let’s avoid the negativity of ‘bad’). I would say a good day is when you do more drafting and less administrative tasks (and no DD!). An OK day is a mixture of drafting and administrative tasks like managing signing or completion processes. A not so good day is when you are ploughing through reams of DD documents or are being pulled in several directions at the same time. The last set is not a daily affair but one needs to be prepared for it.

     

    What were the biggest hurdles and challenges in the early days of your career? How did you deal with them?

    The biggest hurdle I faced was the sudden realisation that working in a law firm required me to know and do things which a law degree may not have necessarily prepared me for. The academic study of law can be quite far removed from its practice, especially if you are working as a transactional lawyer. Your job requires you to have as much commercial aptitude, if not more, as legal knowledge. It took me a while to become reasonably confident about my work and grasp how a deal runs; it is a constant learning process.

    On a less obvious note, I started my career in London so another hurdle was minor cultural practices which percolate into our professional mannerisms. In my experience, we tend to swing in extremes; we are either quite formal (and deferential) or can come across as being slightly overconfident. I noticed I used to err on the side of the former. Finding the right balance is important.

     

    Tell us a little about your experience as a Vacation Placement Student at Allen & Overy and Herbert Smith Freehills. How did you secure this opportunity?

    International firms have very formal and transparent application procedures. You do not need to grapple around for internship opportunities. I applied to both HSF and A&O through their online annual vacation scheme applications and was fortunate enough to make it. There was an initial screening followed by interviews and case studies for both these firms. For people interested in foreign firms, I would strongly recommend keeping a timetable of when the applications are due – ideally in your third year so that you can apply in your fourth.

    Both the experiences were fantastic. I was instantly sold on the work environment and culture at both the firms. The experiences were similar in many ways but different in others. The similarity was evident in terms of warm personalities, professional environments and a clear respect for work-life balance. The differences were more subtle due to the difference in the scale of the two firms (magic-circle versus silver-circle). I was also quite impressed to see the emphasis placed on soft skills and giving the right training. I decided that I wanted such training for the formative stages of my career.

     

    While working as Legal Advisor at Allen & Overy, you underwent a six month secondment to Dubai. A lot of our readers would like to know how the process of secondment works. Please share a few words about your experience.

    A ‘secondment’ is like a temporary six-month stint you do in another office or with a client. It is common practice at UK firms to apply for a secondment in your last seat. I was extremely keen to try out Dubai as a market.

    The experience was wonderful (as you can probably deduce from the fact that I am still here). The office is much smaller so everyone knew everyone, the corporate team was much more closely-knit, there was more scope for direct responsibility at a junior level and, above all, it was not raining/freezing/gloomy 365 days a year. What also helped was the fact that A&O has one of the best M&A practices in the region so the work was diverse and (more often than not) interesting.

     

    What do you think are the essential soft skills that a law student aspiring to make a career in corporate law should possess?

    Corporate law or otherwise, what comes in handy the most is a confident demeanour. How you present yourself has a significant impact on how people perceive you and your work. This extends to the way you talk (presenting your thoughts in an articulate and coherent manner), the way you deal with people and the way you handle stressful situations. In my experience, people would rather give work to someone who, even if not outstanding, is confident and can stay calm when faced with the unforeseen than someone who is brilliant but may drop the ball or lose his/her composure. If I may add, people often mistake confidence for the ability to convince everyone even when you are unsure of yourself. That’s great but it will only take you so far. What is more important is having the confidence to own up to your limitations; this inspires others’ trust in you and ensures success in the longer run.

    In terms of career-specific soft skills, transactional lawyers should always strive to develop matter-management skills. Deals can get stressful and at such times, people who manage to stay organised do better. So if anyone makes fun of you for being too organised (like colour-coding your notes, etc.), don’t worry, you will do well in corporate law!

     

    What does the process of recruitment and interviewing include? Does it differ, depending on the position that the candidate has applied for, or the country which the office is situated in?

    I was selected through the vacation placement route. After an initial screening of applicants, they called a few of us for interview. The interview (in my time) was split into two components, an HR interview and a case study. During the vacation scheme, I went through a similar process in London where I was assessed on my time there and was also asked to undertake a case study/research task and had a final partner interview.

    While I am not in a position to comment on the official policy, I think the process may differ slightly depending on which office you are applying to and the position applied for. The above definitely won’t apply for lateral hires. While all offices have a fairly formal process, the head office (London) has a slightly different format because of the requirement of a Training Contract in the UK.

     

    Once hired, is there an induction or training period for the associates? If yes, what does it consist of?

    If hired in London after graduation, you have to complete a Training Contract for two years. The two year tenure is divided into four six-month seats wherein you get a chance to experience different departments and decide where you want to ‘qualify’. Towards the end of the Training Contract, depending on your interest area and that department’s inclination, you may be offered a position as an associate. Once you become an associate, there is no training or induction involved.

    Overseas qualified lawyers (such as from India) have to clear an exam called the Qualified Lawyers Transfer Scheme in order to be registered as a Solicitor in England and Wales.

     

    What does an average day in the life of an Associate at Allen & Overy look like? What does the work consist of? Does the firm encourage lawyers to maintain a work-life balance?

    I have already described a typical day for a corporate associate above. In terms of work-life balance, that is a tough question. Being very honest, you will find mixed opinions on this topic. In my experience, the firm is definitely quite open to and encourages employees to maintain a work-life balance, but it also depends on your team and department. There are of course busy times when everyone has to put in the hours (especially in a magic-circle firm). I will, however, say that most departments don’t have the culture of face time.

     

    As a concluding message, what would be your suggestions to law students?

    Make the most of university days; that is a precious period you will not get back. At the cost of repeating myself, I would advise against doing anything for the sake of building your CV. If you truly want to differentiate yourself from others, do what inspires and interests you, be it writing papers or dancing. Try to become a better version of yourself, and in the process I am sure you will end up becoming a better lawyer. It is easy to let your vision get jaded while at university; in the long run, things that you thought really matter actually may not.

    Lastly, don’t shy away from letting your hair down. You have a lifetime of hard work ahead of you anyway. And “always remember where you come from and where you want to go”..

  • Shabnam Khan, Head – Trademark, Lall Lahiri and Salhotra, on a career in Intellectual Property Rights

    Shabnam Khan, Head – Trademark, Lall Lahiri and Salhotra, on a career in Intellectual Property Rights

    Shabnam Khan graduated in English Hons. before deciding to pursue law at Delhi University. She graduated in law from Delhi University in 2003. Her journey as an IPR professional started when she joined Evalueserve.com Pvt. Ltd. as an Associate. Thereafter, she joined Lall Lahiri and Salhotra as a Senior Associate in 2007. She was subsequently promoted to Head – Trademark Applications in 2013. In this interview she talks about:

    • Specializing in IPR Laws
    • Working at one of the foremost IPR Firms
    • Being Head – Trademark Applications at Lall Lahiri and Salhotra

     

    What brought you into studying law? Was it planned?

    I had always been captivated by the legal fraternity and the zeal with which they pursue the path of providing justice for their clients. Honestly, the biggest push came after I saw few movies such as “A Few Good Men”, “The Accused” and “A Civil Action” which brought me to realize that this profession had the power to change people’s lives. With that thought during my last year of English Hons. I decided that if there was a career which I wanted to pursue it had to be in the legal domain and thereafter once I started with my course work there was no looking back. The entire subject was and is still captivating.

     

    Please tell us a little about your law school days at the Delhi University? How were you at academics?

    The entire course was so gripping that it was difficult to miss a single day at college. The biggest positive of the Delhi Law University is the excellent professors and their teaching methodology. The sessions were interactive, lively and always buzzing with arguments and counter arguments on various topics. I was also elected as the student counsellor during my time at the college. I would rate myself as a hard working student who participated in various college activities while securing very good grades in a few semesters.

     


    You have specialized in IP law. What made you interested in the same? How do you say one can gain expertise in IP Law? What does it take to be a good IP lawyer?

    The journey to being a IP professional started when I joined Evalueserve.com Pvt. Ltd. where I was required to work with legal attorneys who handled various activities related to IP matters. I received tremendous guidance from attorneys from across the globe, especially those who were involved with USPTO (US Trademark and Patents Office). I was thereafter trained in patent writing and filing matters. This is when I developed an irrevocable interest in the subject. The expertise in the subject comes with the right guidance, practise and continuous dealing with matters related to the subject. To be a good IP lawyer requires one to have broad understanding of various industries, business nuances so that you can suggest creative and out of the box solutions to the clients for their legal matters.

     

    You started your career at Evalueserve.com Pvt. Ltd. as an Associate. How did you secure your appointment? How would you describe your experience working there? What kind of challenges did you face during this job?

    I started as an Associate handling the legal part of the patent filings for the IP department of Evalueserve. That was my first step in the world of IP. I got a lot of guidance from my seniors, went through patent drafting training and learnt quite a lot about what patents are all about and how any invention is required to be protected and secured in the best possible manner. Challenges were numerous, IP was new, and the domain was technical which required me to have conversations in different time zones with IP Attorneys in the US and across the globe. The job entailed that I was always abreast with the latest happenings and was always a step ahead of the deadlines as there was no room for errors. I developed various skills to manage things and made sure nothing falls through the cracks.

     


    Thereafter, you joined Lall Lahiri and Salhotra as a Senior Associate in 2007 and became Head – Trademark Applications in 2013. For a law student it’s very difficult to think about becoming a Head in just six years of joining work. What would you say helped you succeed?

    Joining Lall Lahiri and Salhotra came after a stint of over three years of dealing with Patents. Since I did not have a technical background, I found myself being limited to looking at the legal part of Patents which at that point in time did not have considerable opportunities. As I was interested in Intellectual Property, I wanted to look into other aspects of IP as well. The trademarks division of LLS gave me the much needed exposure and opportunities to grow. The seniors and partners were very educative and supportive towards me since trademarks was an uncharted territory. I learnt, made a few mistakes, but always pushed constantly by learning and guidance provided by my seniors. The process of learning and growing never ceases at LLS, therefore it was after years of working there that I was bestowed upon with the responsibility of heading the department. The openness to accept challenges, hard work and eagerness to learn helped me join the ranks of being the Head of the department.

     

    What kind of effort should a young associate put in to work to be appreciated? What distinguishes an associate from a partner when it comes to work?

    A young associate should be all about learning and gaining knowledge of their domains. Reading and keeping yourself abreast of any developments happening in the field are a must. Hence, it is a must for the associate to focus on his professional path of enrichment as these initial years will differentiate him from others in the future. An associate, in the initial years of their induction should always have an attitude of being a go-getter, ready to accept challenges and should be able to think out of the box. Every matter will enrich the associate with greater depth of knowledge and equip him in handling various matters in the future.

     

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    What does a Head at a Law Firm like Lall Lahiri and Salhotra do? What falls within the scope of your responsibility? Tell us about a typical work day.

    The work of a Head of department entails a large number of activities and cannot be categorized into specific key responsibility areas. However, some of the key tasks include – speaking with clients on active and fresh mandates, understanding their legal problems and suggesting actionable solutions, managing deadlines, resource & project planning amongst various other tasks.

    A typical day starts with reading the emails received from the clients, prioritizing what needs to be done, what needs to go out to the clients on that day and what needs to be started to be able to meet the future deadlines. Advising clients, providing them with your opinions both from a legal and a commercial perspective, recommending the best ways forward and assisting them in achieving the same are the highlights of a typical day.

     

    How is the work culture at Lall Lahiri and Salhotra? If an associate commits a mistake or an error what course of action do you follow?

    Work culture at LLS is very cohesive. It has great learning environment for everyone, be it an associate or a senior person. There are no limits to work and you can grow as much as you want, of course with the right abilities and attitude. The firm promotes in people thinking out of the box, finding solutions and hence in the process, mistakes are expected from juniors. However, it is also expected that with the right guidance from the seniors he/she is able to amend and learn from the same.

     

    What are the other areas of study which you think that a law student wanting to excel as a professional in the field of IP should be proficient in?

    In case you want to excel in IP, certain other related fields of law also come into the picture. Associated areas of law include corporate law, criminal law and law related to other aspects of IP such as copyrights and Patents. An expertise is not desired, but working knowledge of these fields will assist and help you rise above the rest.

     

    What changes has being the Head – Trademark Applications brought into your life, do you ever feel that there is an excess of work load on you? How do you manage to strike a balance between your personal and professional life?

    Work never stops, the interesting bits of queries received from the clients keeps you going and exploring more. Work can and never should be treated as a burden but as a challenge, the more you have, greater the chances that you will become a better and refined professional. As no two assignments are the same, it helps a person in exploring uncharted territories and subject matters resulting in understanding the applicability of law in greater detail.

     

    The trend now is to gather various internship experiences at different places. Was the scenario the same while you were pursuing law? How are internships helpful for a law student?

    While I was pursuing law, the concept of gathering internships was in the nascent stage. At the most, students would get attached to someone they know or their family knew or start as assisting lawyers in various courts. While ensuring you intern with good and varied law firms is a necessity of the current time, however, an intern should be thoughtful of not overdoing the same. It is advisable to spend time in a few law firms than a large number of law firms as it would leave the intern confused and not being able to understand any subject in detail. The same is crucial in making future career decisions.

     

    What are the qualities which Lall Lahiri and Salhotra look for in one and his/her CV?

    The firm hires interns, however, the selection process is stringent and thus only a few make it through the selection process. It is important for the intern to exhibit qualities such as – knowledge of current happenings in the IP world, understanding on key/ famous IP litigations, attitude, openness to learn and the desire to go extra mile, proficiency in spoken and written English, etc.

     

    What do you feel makes an intern stand out and is very important for him to do to have a chance of getting a call back or even a PPO?

    As I said earlier, it is about your attitude and willingness to learn. A lot depends on how fast you pick up things, and deliver results in a limited time.

     

    What would be your message to our readers who are budding lawyers and law students?

    Have the right attitude and never think any work is small, give your 100% to whatever you do. This will take you high on the ladder where all you can see is success.

  • Shantanu Sahay, Partner, Anand & Anand, on work experience in IPR and journey from Associate to Partner

    Shantanu Sahay, Partner, Anand & Anand, on work experience in IPR and journey from Associate to Partner

    Shantanu Sahay graduated from National Law Institute University, Bhopal in 2007. With an in-depth knowledge and interest in IPR laws, he joined the litigation team of Anand and Anand as an Associate in 2007. With his work, acumen and diligence, he was quickly elevated to the rank of a partner in June, 2014. We asked him to share his work experiences and career moves with us.

    In this interview, he tells us about:

    • Law School experience at NLIU, Bhopal
    • The journey from an associate to becoming a partner at Anand & Anand
    • Work at a top IPR Law Firm
    • Important skills of a lawyer and a partner

     

    What brought you into studying law? Was it fate or plan?

    I belong to a family of lawyers. In fact, I am the fifth generation lawyer from my father’s side. My father is still a practicing advocate at the Patna High Court. Also, both my grandfathers have been lawyers. Being born in a family full of lawyers, I definitely had some sort of a natural inclination towards this field and in view of this; it was very much a matter of fate too.

    However, I was also impressed by the concept of five years integrated law school course such as NLS, NLIU, NALSAR etc and thus I decided to sit for law school entrance examinations.

    I had the chance to score rank one at the all India entrance examination for NLIU, Bhopal in 2002 and therefore I decided to join it.

     

    Please tell us a little about your law school days at the National Law Institute University, Bhopal?

    I was in NLIU from 2002 to 2007 and it was one of the finest days of our lives.

    NLIU offered everything which we aspired as law students. From academics, sports, library and other infrastructural facilities, NLIU was just fantastic. It was five years full of fun and was a world in itself. I made a lot of friends at law school.

    Also, because it was an on campus residential set up, we used to have a lot of activities after college hours. Debating, sports, dramatics, moot courts etc gave us a lot of exposure in shaping our outlook towards life in general and legal profession is particular.

     

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    How important do you say is a good CGPA for an illustrious career in legal?

    I would say fifty-fifty. Obviously, good CGPA is an indicator of how much hard work you put in into your academics at law school.

    Also, from the perspective of campus placement, having a good CGPA always stands to be an advantage. But that does not mean that a good CGPA will guarantee an illustrious career.

    Your performance at the law school is totally independent of your performance as a professional. In fact, there have been a lot of cases where a lot of law students who were not that high graders in law school performed really well after they joined the profession.

     

    You have specialized in IPR. How do you say one can gain expertise in it? What does it take to be good in IPR?

    I got interested in IPR from my first year itself. In the boys hostel during my first year I used to live around my seniors who were interested IPRs. They used to write various articles and do a lot of research work in various field pertaining to IPRs.

    Initially, I used to help them with their researches and it is from there my interested in this particular field of law took off.

    All my internships, publications, moots etc used to be in IPR. In fact, my resume was so much IP specific that I was not even short listed for any corporate based law firms during my final year. I interned at Anand and Anand in 2007 and joined the firm that very year.

     

    You joined Anand and Anand as an Associate in 2007 and became a Partner in 2014. For a law student it’s very difficult to think about becoming a partner in just seven years of joining work. What would you say helped you to join the ranks of a partner?

    I was inducted in the litigation department at A&A and was involved with the IT and E-commerce law practice group. The partner who was heading this vertical went on to become a client. From 2010, I started heading this practice and in 2014, I was called into partnership as the partner-in-charge of this vertical.

     

    What kind of effort should a young associate put in to work to get it appreciated? What distinguishes an associate with a partner when it comes to work?

    Execution of the assignments in a diligent manner is the mantra. Hard work and dedication really pays well and associates are recognized very well in terms of their visibility and their importance in a team.

     

    What does a partner at a Law Firm like Anand and Anand do? What falls within the scope of your responsibility? Tell us about a typical work day.

    As an in-charge of this practice, come a lot of responsibilities, targets and travels. You are responsible to the clients as well as the internal senior leadership. To add, there are also expectations in terms of getting new clients to the firm. These tasks are challenging but fun at the same time.

    Normally in the first half, I go to the Delhi High Court where I attend to my matters along with the team. Then I come back to office (which is in Noida) around lunch time. Post lunch is usually allotted for client meetings and conference calls. In the evening, I respond to all my emails and prepare for the matters listed the coming day. I try to leave office by 9 pm.

     

    How important is it for a law firm partner to be good at business development, or are great lawyering skills enough to become a partner? What separates the people who become partner from those who don’t?

    As a partner, it is important to engage in Business Development. Especially, as in charge of the vertical, I have been doing BD for a long time now. Rain makers in these law firm structures are always valued by the senior leadership and also increase chances for further promotions. One has to understand that partnership also has its own growth path.

     

    How is the work culture at Anand and Anand? If an associate commits a mistake or an error what course of action do you follow as a partner?

    Anand and Anand has a fabulous work culture. This is one place where performance takes precedence over seniority. Associates work in a relaxed environment and have a lot of independence and exposure to various challenging legal issues.

     

    What changes has being a Partner brought into your life, do you ever feel that there is excess of work load on you?

    Not much difference I should say. Work load remains same but responsibilities have increased. Travels have increased and so have client interactions.

     

    How is internship helpful for a law student? Esp. from the viewpoint of Anand & Anand?

    Anand & Anand in true sense takes internships very seriously and for us an intern is a potential recruit. Internships are important as they can give the real world experience to a law student as to how their life would somewhat be after they pass out from college.

    Internships, if done diligently can result in recruitment as has been my case.

     

    What are the qualities you look for in an intern at Anand & Anand?

    Hard work, dedication and having a right kind of attitude in terms of taking on assignments from their reporting teams. More than possessing the knowledge of law, it is important to have the right kind of aptitude in terms of knowing where to look for an answer to a legal proposition. Possessing soft skills, knowledge of how to use legal search databases such as SCC online, Manupatra etc. Overall the ability to work hard towards completion of an assignment.

     

    What do you feel makes an intern stand out and is very important for him to do to have a chance of getting a call back or even a PPO?

    Good performance is always noticed and a second application is accepted or a PPO is offered.

     

    What would be your message to our readers who are budding lawyers and law students?

    • Have the right kind of attitude towards profession.
    • Money should not be the first criteria in terms of choosing a particular field of law.
    • Give time to your profession and follow your professional ethics.
    • Be persistent and patient. Read a lot.
    • Keep informed about what is happening also at the policy and economic level which has bearing on your field of law.
    • Most importantly, work hard.
  • Gargi Panwar, Associate at Rajani Singhania & Partners, on LL.M from Nottingham Univ for a career in corporate law

    Gargi Panwar, Associate at Rajani Singhania & Partners, on LL.M from Nottingham Univ for a career in corporate law

    Gargi Panwar graduated with a BLS.LL.B degree from Rizvi Law College, Mumbai in 2010.She started her legal career as a Junior Associate in the Chambers of Advocate Flanian G. D’souza. Thereafter she went on to pursue Masters from University of Nottingham in International Commercial Law. After coming back to India, she joined Precept Legal as an Associate. She also holds a Diploma in Corporate Law offered by Asian School of Cyber Laws. Currently, she works as an Associate at Rajani, Singhania & Partners.

    In this interview, she talks about:

    • Law school experience at Rizvi Law College, Mumbai
    • Choosing to pursue higher studies over job
    • LL.M experience at Nottingham
    • Work at Rajani, Singhania & Partners

     

    Given that most of our readers are law students and lawyers, how would you introduce yourself to them? What is it that motivated you to take up law as a career?

    I am Gargi Panwar, a lawyer specialising in Property Laws and Mergers & Acquisitions in Maharashtra. My work involves a lot of communication with the clients, negotiations and meetings. I call myself a part time litigator because I handle a lot of Schemes of Arrangements and Amalgamations, Schemes of Revivals and therefore I can be often seen running into Company court (sometimes if not always in the rush hour).

    It’s a little cliché but I wanted to be a lawyer since I was a 14. By the time I turned 18, I was ever determined to pursue law as a career. I am happy that I could do what I really wanted to in my career.

    Motivation is not something that comes out of always winning but sometimes the setbacks in your life motivate you to walk on the chosen path with more determination and zeal. Therefore, no matter what everyone says, always ask yourself this question “do I want to pursue it?” and if you do, then give your 100% in achieving it.

     

    What do you think is the kind of interest or aptitude one needs to pursue law?

    A person needs to love reading because our profession is such that we can never know everything. There is a constant change in relation to laws and regulations and therefore, in order to be up to date one needs to read. In corporate law, I feel a person needs a lot of patience and tolerance to be exercised when clients act difficult. Also, one needs the aptitude to see different outcomes of a problem and then find the most viable option at hand. This is very important in litigation as one needs to be able to identify the key issues and find most appropriate arguments for the same.

     

    What were your areas of interest during your graduation? How did you go about developing expertise and knowledge in these areas?

    I was always inclined towards corporate law. Not because I do not enjoy litigation, but because I love negotiations. I feel any problem can be solved if two parties sit across each other and talk. Therefore, Company Law and Alternate Dispute Resolution were my fields.

     

    After your graduation, you started working as a Junior Associate at the Chambers of Advocate Flanian G. D’Souza? What kind of challenges did you face during this job?

    By the end of fifth year, I realised that I need to work under an Advocate who can give me an overall experience in various streams of law. Flanian D’Souza and Jerome D’Souza are very well known lawyers in Bandra, Mumbai for Civil Law & Property Law. I approached them through a friend who was working with them. Flanian Sir instantly appreciated my confidence and my good credentials and I started working with him from the next day. I had to leave the job because I wanted to study further.

     

    Did you always have higher studies in your mind? If not, what motivated you to go in for the same?

    More than me, my parents were keen on sending me abroad for my LL.M. Also, I love studying. If I could, I would be a student forever.

     

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    Do you think it makes sense for students to go overseas to study law when they want to practise in India?

    It depends on what kind of practice you will have once you come back to India. If you are interested in Maritime Law, Human Rights, International Insolvency, Intellectual Property Law or like me if you want to be a specialist in Mergers &Acquisitions, then studying abroad should definitely be your choice.

    Apart from this, students may also opt to study abroad as the experience of the international standards of education, meeting people and interacting with people from all over the world, making lifelong connections with people from all over the world are few of the many advantages of studying abroad.

     

    After pursuing Masters, you joined Precept Legal as an Associate. What was the nature of your work there?

    I dealt with Intellectual Property Law, Property Law and Civil Law.

     

    Currently, you are working as an Associate at Rajani, Singhania & Partners (RSP). What prompted you to make this choice and what made this shift possible?

    After coming back from studying for my LL.M, I was looking for a placement relating to Mergers and Acquisitions. I got that opportunity in RSP.

     

    What kind of work and responsibilities does an Associate at Rajani, Singhania & Partners deal with? What should a student do so that he gets placed in a prestigious firm like RSP?

    I am currently working in the M&A Team. I am currently working on matters involving corporate restructuring such as arrangements, amalgamations, mergers & demergers, revival scheme matters. It’s a round the clock job, exciting and exhilarating.

    Students should work towards doing internships with firms and know the work culture of the firm. The name of the firm is important but what is more important is what you want to pursue and how will you achieve success in what you want. Confidence is also a major factor in getting jobs in law firms. A well read person is always preferred.

     

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    Tell us about a case that you are particularly proud of. What steps do you take to prepare for a difficult case?

    I am currently working on a revival of a company after almost 75 years of its incorporation and about 50 years of the company being ordered to be wound up.

    One has to know the facts and read all the papers of their matters. Also, research on various aspects of the matter is also very important.

     

    What is the current scenario of studying corporate law as a career option in India?

    It’s a very positive and bright future for students who opt for corporate law. There is an unquenchable thirst to absorb good minds in every law firm.

     

    There is a school of thought that labels LL.M’s as being little more than an expensive holiday unless the individual concerned wishes to enter the world of academia/research? Now that you are working, do you feel the experience acquired during your LL.M is relevant to your professional life?

    Definitely, I am well versed with U.K. Law, U.S. Law and Indian Law because I got an international perspective while studying for my LL.M on various subjects including intellectual property, business law, banking and regulations, cross border mobility and insolvency.

    Also, I am much more confident and sure of myself than when I was before I went abroad for my LL.M.  My earning potential has also increased because of the  added qualifications.

     

    What do you cherish most about the experience you’ve had over the past two years?

    The fact that I have become a confident, smart and successful woman over the past two years, esp. for the LL.M which gave me the much required exposure. I would love to hold on to my LL.M experience.

     

    Last but not least, what’s next for you?

    Currently I have not thought about the future but I hope I have opportunities and matters to show my skill. Also I am planning to study further and maybe do my solicitors or an MBA. Well, time will tell.

  • Bharat Kumar, Senior Associate, Saikrishna & Associates, on work in litigation and pro bono commitments

    Bharat Kumar, Senior Associate, Saikrishna & Associates, on work in litigation and pro bono commitments

    Bharat Kumar graduated from Amity Law School, Delhi with a B.A.LL.B degree in 2009. He started working as an Associate in the litigation team of Saikrishna & Associates right after graduation and currently works as a Senior Associate there. He is also an empanelled counsel and counsellor for the Delhi State Legal Services Authority. In this interview he talks about:

    • Law school experience at Amity Law School, Delhi
    • Internship and recruitment at Saikrishna and Associates
    • The importance of pro bono work

     

    How would you introduce yourself? Could you please share a little bit of what motivated you to pursue law as a career?

    I was born and raised in Delhi and did my schooling from Ahlcon Public School. Essentially, I was a science student. Being from a typical ‘tam-bram’ family (and to be very honest with you!), I was rather fine-tuned since my childhood by my family members to someday become an engineer. Law, although, always fascinated me. I guess it was finally a couple of court excursions, which I did in the final days of my schooling that compelled me to pursue legal studies and become a (successful) advocate someday.

     

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    How would you describe your time at Amity Law School, Delhi? Did you take part in extracurricular activities? How important do you think that extra-curricular activities are to a law student?

    Time spend during college days was fun, yet informative. **Laughingly** Our college had a fairly strict attendance regime, which compelled us all to compulsorily amass knowledge! Internships were a regular during holidays. Guess that gave us all an insight into the area of law we desired to get into.

    Yes, I did take part in moot court competitions and played my hand at ‘Table-Tennis’, as a sport. Extra-curricular activities are quintessential to a law student as I believe they help not only in interpersonal skills, but also aid in nurturing the art of team management.

     

    A lot of law students promise to take up pro-bono work and do some socially relevant work. Have these ideas ever crossed your mind?

    Absolutely! Paying back to society should be if not our primary, but our next best ulterior motive. I did do an internship in the National Commission for Women (NCW) during my 3rd year in college, wherein I got an opportunity to be involved in a lot of cases concerning social issues. I am also currently an empanelled counsel and a counsellor for the Delhi State Legal Services Authority, whereby I help people belonging to the weaker sections of society by my legal services. My best advice to my younger brethren would be to help out as many needy people as possible, through your expertise or otherwise.

     

    How was your first year after graduation? What would you suggest a fresh law graduate should do to hold spirit and utilise the opportunities available?

    My first year was rather spent on learning (it continues to be so!). The emphasis was on a number of issues, more like, how to apply the law, be it procedural or substantive, onto a matter; how your senior argues a particular matter or even how interpersonal relations are to be developed in a workplace.

    Totally! I believe it takes a fair bit of time to settle in, in any workplace! I feel one should hold fort and not hold grudges against any fellow worker. Believe in your superior and he shall give you opportunities.

     

    Right after graduation, you started working in the litigation team of Saikrishna & Associates(S&A) as an Associate. How did your appointment take place? How would you describe your working experience there?

    During my final semester, I started applying in law firms. I was fairly sure that I wanted to pursue litigation only. I did receive interview calls from a few law firms, S&A being one of them. Fortunately for me and pursuant to a couple of interviews, I finally got a call to be a part of the firm.

    Working in S&A has been a delight! One is encouraged to handle matters on your own right from the start! Seniors are helpful with frequent discussions on legal issues. The emphasis is more on learning. I guess its fairly significant for any lawyer to have a good boss. I feel we have that in S&A.

     

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    How difficult were the first few months of Saikrishna & Associates(S&A) given that it focuses mainly on a specific field of law?

    Litigation offers one rather a protracted period of learning. Initial days in any organization can be challenging as practise may be reasonably different from what one has read. The first few months of my work was rather spent on learning drafting skills and getting deeper into the subject.

     

    What is the procedure to apply for an internship and recruitment at Saikrishna & Associates? If I say that I have never interned at Saikrishna & Associates, what should I do to apply for a job there?

    We have a fairly streamlined process of applying for an internship or for recruitment. Interns can mail their CV at interns@saikrishnaassociates.com. Pursuant to a screening of their credentials, they are allotted internships during various months of the year. A potential candidate seeking a place within the firm can apply on hr@saikrishnaassociates.com. This of course is subject to vacancies being present.

     

    What would you suggest to someone who is preparing to work with an IPR law firm? What are the basic subjects (IP and non-IP subjects) which one should read and have understanding of before sitting for an interview?

    It completely depends on whether one would want to get into prosecution or litigation or even work relating to policy. Considering the fact that one wants to get into litigation, one must have a reasonably good knowledge of the CPC. During college days, I presume we all tend to ignore the subject. Also, looking into the diversifications that have come forth in IP law, one has to be prepared even in the area of law he/she wishes to be in. Say for example, the requirements for a lawyer practicing copyright or trademark law is fairly different from a lawyer practicing patent law. The latter would surely require some expertise in science at a university level, in addition to legal studies. Nonetheless, the person going in for an interview should be updated with the latest developments in law. The recitation of a landmark case, together with your answer, during an interview would surely make an impact.

     

    Please give our readers a few tips in order to land a job in an IPR firm.

    One needs to make sure that their internship is promising and fulfilling. Working with outmost diligence and hard work will surely help in bagging one with a job.

     

    You have specialized in IPR. What made you interested in the same?

    IPR is an emerging field with a plethora of opportunities. Moreover, the same is also non-conventional, with an emphasis over the protection of rights concerning modern day issues. I believe IP issues, which I read rather habitually on a few popular blogs, elevated my interest levels and made me interested in the same.

     

    After four year of work as an Associate, you were promoted to Senior Associate. How did you go about achieving this?

    **Smilingly** Guess the question should rather be put to my supervisor(s)! I just did my bit. One needs to make sure that work’s done efficiently and well within the permitted period of time. Be thorough with your matter and with the subject. That’s what is required.

     

    Have you ever considered starting up on your own? Would you say the opportunity a firm provides for a young lawyer is worth the trade off in building a reputation?

    No. S&A provides us with the independence of arguing and handling matters all by ourselves. Our managing partner provides us with adequate liberty to handle and/or supervise even big ticket matters with minimal supervision.

    Absolutely yes! Firms currently provide a very good platform to help and make your mark. One gets adequate client interaction even during their initial days. It definitely helps in gaining a lot of exposure.

     

    What is a normal workday like at Saikrishna & Associates?

    A normal workday usually begins with matters in court. The same is followed by working on client issues together with preparation on matters coming up on subsequent day(s).

     

    What would be your parting message to our readers?

    College days are the best days of your life. Enjoy them to the hilt! Just make sure that you have above average credentials and good internship experiences. Once you’ve finalized where you would want to work, spend most of your time interning with that office. Give your best to it and believe me, your future’s secure!

     

  • Dhruv Suri, Principal Associate, PSA Legal, on leading a student organisation, LL.M from Columbia University and work at Law Firms

    Dhruv Suri, Principal Associate, PSA Legal, on leading a student organisation, LL.M from Columbia University and work at Law Firms

    Dhruv Suri graduated from Guru Gobind Singh Indraprastha University, New Delhi in 2009. While in college he co-founded a student organization called United Students which initiated the Jessica Lall and Priyadarshini Mattoo campaigns. He was invited by the then President, A.P.J. Abdul Kalam to discuss problems of OBC reservations after receiving his memorandum on the same. He has interned with AZB & Partners and Valeo, Paris. He received a PPO while interning at PSA Legal Counsellors where he was an Associate for four years before opting for an LL.M from Columbia University, New York. He has joined PSA after coming back from Columbia. He is currently a Principal Associate at PSA Legal Counsellors. In this interview he talks about:

    • Studying law at GGSIPU, New Delhi
    • Recruitment and work experience at PSA Legal Counsellors
    • Masters from Columbia University, New York

     

    As an introduction, please tell us about your schooling and how you decided to pursue law.

    I was born and brought up in Delhi and did my schooling from Delhi Public School, Vasant Kunj. I graduated from school in 2003 and was unsure of what I wanted to do. So much so that my family registered me for one of the law entrance exams and I ran away to Mumbai with a friend for a holiday. Of course, that did not go down too well with my family after I came back. When I came back, I took admission in Delhi University where I studied English Hons. for one year. However, for that entire year, all I did was theatre and learn dance. My attendance at college was abysmal! In 2004, I was emotionally blackmailed by my mother to register for the law entrance exams once again on the pretext that I would be given a Maruti 800 to travel to law school and an increment in my pocket money. I fell for it and got an option to study at Amity Law School. Back then, Amity Law School was a building in south Delhi and did not have the atmosphere of a “campus” that I grown accustomed to in my one year at DU. So, I opted for the main Guru Gobind Singh Indraprastha University law school which seemed like a better option. Rest assured, I got no car and travelled 40kms a day in local Delhi buses. So, this is how my journey with law started- as a “victim” of emotional blackmail from my mother! J

     

    You completed your law degree from Guru Gobind Singh Indraprastha University, New Delhi in 2009. What activities were you involved in there? Looking back, is there anything you wish you had done differently?

    The first few years just went by in trying to understand what law is really about. I loved courses like Legal Reasoning, Jurisprudence, History, and Contract law. I also loved mooting and showed up at any and every audition, whether I was prepared or not. I was also very active in the debating society and ensured that I participated in as many competitions as possible. Since our campus was fairly big and had lots of engineering and management colleges as well, there was always some event or the other taking place. By the time I was in my 4th year, debating became a source of extra pocket money.  However, amidst all this, I was also focussed on getting good internships and a job. In fact, if there is any regret that I have, it is that all through my final year I worked after college hours, whereas all my friends were enjoying themselves, going for lunches, movies and ensuring that their last year as a “student” was memorable. When I look back, I could have probably worried less about my career and instead made the most of my final year at law school. Eventually we all had to work but I do feel that I missed out on some fun times with my friends.

     

    You started a student organization called United Students. You contested the Delhi University elections and initiated the Jessica Lall and Priyadarshani Mattoo campaigns. Please tell us more about it.

    United Students happened by pure accident. I was in the latter part of my 2nd year at law school when I met the other founder members of United Students at a coffee shop in central Delhi. I had always been someone who liked to initiate and take the lead in everything I did. The trial court verdict in the Jessica Lall case was out and I was having discussions and debates with people from all quarters about the merits of case, legal arguments advanced, etc. Some common friends connected me to like Aditya Raj Kaul, a young 17 year old (now a popular Times Now reporter), who had started an online campaign in connection with the Priyadarshani Mattoo case. Aditya and I realised how similar we both were and he introduced me to the other founder members. We were all passionate about bringing about a change and decided to collaborate. I think that really was the key reason for launching United Students. We wanted the organization to encourage young Indians, particularly students, to think and debate in a cohesive manner and take up issues of governance. The idea was to engage in discussions and debates, take an informed stand and then take steps on ground to the best of our abilities. I think the legal profession is somewhat similar. Discussions and debates are synonymous with research, which is very important to take a stand and advise the client. As I got busier with law and internships and all other members got more absorbed in their lives, the organization had a natural death. However, the entire experience played a big role in how I evolved as a person and it is something that I will always cherish.

     

    Why didn’t you pursue a career in politics? Do you think you will enter the field again in the future?

    I remember I was doing a shoot for a big news channel during the Delhi University elections and the spokesperson of one of the bigger political parties came to me and asked me to formally join them. I wonder how different life would have been had I actually done that! But on a serious note, I did consider pursuing politics more seriously but was equally eager to graduate and practice law. Who knows, one day I may actually be able to balance a legal and political career!

     

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    During your time at law school, you interned at AZB & Partners, New Delhi and Valeo, Paris. Please describe your experiences.

    All my internship experiences were very rich. At AZB I did my first all-nighter and got a real sense of how corporate law firms work. The lawyers were extremely kind and I am still in touch with some of them. Valeo was great because I got to work in-house and attend lots of business meetings. I realised how a “business lawyer” (whether in-house or external) cannot give pragmatic advice if he/she does not have a sound understanding of the business. This was the biggest take-away from this internship and till date, I try and adopt the same approach while advising clients at PSA. Of course, I got to spend a little less than 3 months in Paris which was fantastic and the first time I stayed by myself. I made sure I saw every bridge, every museum and (almost) ever cafe and bar there.

     

    You also interned at PSA Legal Counsellors and then received a PPO from them. What do the recruiters at PSA look for in potential candidates? How did you secure a PPO?

    One of the most preferred modes of recruiting at PSA is to give offers to final year law students interning at the firm and then training them internally as they grow. The firm encourages building in-house talent.

    In terms of how PSA approaches recruitments of potential candidates, I think it is more or less assumed that a first year associate will not know much about the law. However, she/he should be eager to learn and work hard, and also interact and work well in a team. PSA also believes that before becoming a specialist, it is important to be a good generalist. So, if there is a student who only wishes to work in the area of, say, capital markets or intellectual property or competition, PSA would not be the best place to work. Whereas if someone is keen to do everything and gradually pick areas of interest and focus on them, PSA would be an ideal place for them.

    In my specific instance, I interned with PSA all through my final year at law school. While I was still an intern, I got actively involved in a big PE transaction. The deal was still ongoing when I graduated so I just continued working on it and did not stop. Slowly I got drawn in on a lot of other matters and before I realised, I had spent almost 5 years at the firm!

     

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    Upon graduating, you started working at PSA as an Associate. What was your work profile like?

    Like I mentioned, at PSA, you do everything in your first year. So, my work profile was nothing different. I was actively working on a PE deal, but also assisting the senior lawyers in day-to-day corporate advisory, researching for litigation matters, working on intellectual property queries and even drafting board minutes and incorporating companies. Gradually the work becomes more sophisticated and challenging but the basic training I got in my first year continues to be invaluable and (I’d like to believe) set a strong foundation. Before I left for my LL.M in 2013, I was working on sophisticated M&A transactions, advising large conglomerates on complex legal queries pertaining to contracts, IP, tax, employment etc. and arguing matters before the Competition Commission of India.

     

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    After four years at PSA, you opted for an LL.M from Columbia University, New York. How did you secure your admission at Columbia? What was your specialisation?

    So, Columbia and Harvard are two schools that I know do not offer a specialised LL.M. In fact, even as a matter of personal preference, I did not want to do a super specialised LL.M. The application process was exhausting and almost impossible to manage with long work hours. I took 10 days off in October 2012 to work on my applications and finalized as many as I could. Even the 10 days were not enough and I spent a lot of weekends on my personal statement and other school-specific essays that were required. Now when I look back, I am so glad I put in that effort because Columbia really is one of the best things that ever happened to me! Plus I got to live in New York which just takes the LL.M experience to a whole new level.

    With respect to courses, there was a fair bit of flexibility so I made sure I had a variety on my plate. Some of my courses were “Strategic International Commercial Transactions,” “Financial Statement Analysis,” “Intellectual Property Drafting,” “Negotiations,” “Corporations,” etc. All of them were taught by top-notch professors who made studying such a pleasure, an area where, in my opinion, Indian law schools have a lot of catching up to do.

     

    You also worked as a Research Assistant for Professor Anu Bradford in the field of antitrust laws. On what basis were you chosen for the project? How was the experience?

    I have always been very interested in competition/antitrust law. During my first month at Columbia, we received an e-mail that Professor Anu Bradford was looking for LL.M research assistants to work in the field of antitrust law. I think I drafted a short cover e-mail and sent my CV within 5 minutes of receiving the e-mail. Professor Bradford called me for an interview and soon I started working for her. The experience was so enriching because the work she asked me to do involved coding antitrust laws of multiple countries (including India) and understanding key differences in how statutes are drafted across those jurisdictions with respect to restrictive agreements, cartels, abuse of dominance, etc.. The work gave me a deep and detailed understanding of antitrust laws. Plus, she is one of the most wonderful people I know and mentored me throughout the time I was at Columbia. I am just glad I got to work with her.

     

    Is it better to pursue an LL.M right after college or after working for a few years?

    This is a question that a lot of people aspiring to do an LL.M ask. Honestly, I don’t think it has a right answer. A lot of my friends went for their LL.M immediately after completing law school but I chose to go after gathering some work experience. Specifically for Columbia, which has an extremely competitive curriculum, it is rare for them to admit anybody with less than 2 years of work experience. Of course, there are exceptions. Based on my experience, I do think that work experience comes in very handy, especially when you are learning about a different legal system. You are definitely wiser and more mature to gauge concepts by linking them to your practical experience. Plus, you also tend to make a lot more of your degree by networking professionally, which, I think, can be challenging if you have never worked before.

     

    Do you think the LL.M has improved your career prospects? Do you have larger responsibilities at PSA now?

    The LL.M has definitely helped me a lot. If I had to point out one thing, it has made me surer of my work and more confident in my interactions with clients, both Indians and foreigners. In terms of my profile, I am now a Principal Associate at the firm and manage PSA’s start-up/PE/VC practice which is extremely exciting because I interact and work with dynamic start-ups and very passionate entrepreneurs.  While I continue to do legal work, a lot of my time and energy is also spent on business development, which I thoroughly enjoy. So clearly, the responsibilities have increased and the concept of weekends has dissolved. I have to be on top of whatever I am working on all 7 days a week and I actually prefer it like that.

     

    Lastly, what advice would you give to law students wishing to pursue a career in corporate law and considering doing an LL.M?

    I would say that, make sure you do internships in law firms in your 4th and 5th year and be proactive when working. I enjoy working with interns who are eager to learn, proactively follow-up with me and don’t hesitate to take responsibility of their work. It is a good opportunity for you to demonstrate your attitude towards work. Also, be prepared to do any and all kinds of work. You will realise much later how the most minuscule things you worked on as an intern or first year associate come in handy during negotiations or drafting contracts. So, approach work with an open mind. Finally, if you plan to do a LL.M, my advice usually is to work for 2-3 years. It will really change your perspective and you will be able to make the most out of your academic courses and the overall LL.M experience.

    In the end, I would just say that work hard but make sure you enjoy your student life as well. That time (unless you do your LL.M) will not return. Good luck!

     

  • Ronak Thakkar, Associate, Jyoti Sagar Associates, on the first year at a top law firm

    Ronak Thakkar, Associate, Jyoti Sagar Associates, on the first year at a top law firm

    Ronak Thakkar is currently an Associate at J. Sagar Associates, Mumbai. He graduated from Government Law College, Mumbai, and simultaneously earned his Company Secretary degree. His internships include Tata Motors Limited, P&C Legal and J. Sagar Associates, Mumbai. He has also completed a Diploma Course in Cyber Law from Asian School of Cyber Law, followed by the Advanced Certificate Course in Foreign Trade, International Business/Trade, Marketing and Dispute Resolution from the Indian Merchants’ Chamber. In this interview he talks about:

    • Academics and co-curricular activities at GLC, Mumbai
    • Internship, recruitment and work at corporate law firms
    • Pursuing a C.S. degree along with LL.B studies

     

    Our readers consist of law aspirants, law students and young lawyers. How will you introduce yourself to them?

    Firstly, thank you for giving me this opportunity to share my story. This interview is going to be an experience in itself as I am usually the listener and the one who asks questions.

    I rocketed to Earth as Ronak Thakkar. I’m a corporate lawyer, 23 years old, currently working in Mumbai (Bombay, for those who prefer it that way). I am passionate about law, live life with an open, accepting mindset and am always up for a high five.

     

    Tell us a bit about your childhood and pre-college life as well as educational background. Do you have lawyers in your family?

    I was blessed with a very good childhood and was fortunate to have caring and supportive parents. I was a last bencher at St. Pius X High School, an all-boys school. As you’ve guessed it right, the energy and the adrenaline rush were really high.

    Honestly speaking, school has been one of the best phases I have lived through so far. I guess the feeling is the same for all of us. I have learnt a lot, made many friends and it has definitely been the foundation stone to the positive attitude with which I stand in front of you guys today. About my educational qualification, I am a law graduate from Government Law College, Mumbai.

    I am a first generation Superlawyer. I also don’t have a surname that is well-established in the fraternity.

     

    In India there is bit of resistance towards legal education even now. What motivated you to choose law as a career?

    I don’t personally feel that there is any resistance towards legal education now. I think students in India today are more than happy to take up law mainly because law offers you many opportunities to do your best in your chosen interest areas. The Government is doing a lot to promote legal education and make it more accessible. In GLC there is about 50% reservation for students who belong to eligible quotas like SC/ST, sports, cultural etc. and these opportunities are being utilised.  I don’t think there is any resistance.

    As far my motivation to take up law and pursue law as a career is concerned, it was simple. I could relate to it more than anything else and definitely relate to it more than I could relate to K4Fe(CN)6 + H2SO4 + H2O = K2SO4 + FeSO4 + (NH4)2SO4 + CO.

    According to me law helps you to find solutions in real life situations and is a very practical subject. I felt that by doing law I will be standing for a purpose/cause and will work towards achieving it. Therefore I took it up.

    Curiosity is the word. Law is interesting; I felt I wanted to know more. I was sure that I will be better as a lawyer than a dentist or an engineer. It wasn’t very difficult to take that decision then.

     

    How did you get through to GLC, Mumbai?

    I was a science student before I took up law. I was weak with numbers, never got my chemical equations right. I had realised that I had failed to make the right choice. I was about to waste a year because it was a bit late by the time I decided to do law and GLC was the only college I was able to apply to.

    While going through the admission process, I learnt that in order to get through GLC, your HSC percentage is taken into account and you are not required to give CLAT which was motivating considering that I had not given the CLAT.

    I am very happy that I got through and was a part of this excellent institution.

     

    Which subjects did you enjoy during your qualifying degree? What about co-curricular activities?

    I enjoyed Company law, Banking laws and Constitutional law. I contributed to the Magazine Committee of GLC in my first year.  I moved on to learn German and Japanese in my second year as learning new languages and networking are my hobbies.

    I felt that much of the law related to people and their dealings with each other, and it was crucial to understand thought processes and society to be able to work towards solving social problems. Therefore, I took up voluntary community service at the Indian Red Cross Society, Mumbai and was a part of some of their programs.

    I became a part of AIESEC, Mumbai in 2011, a branch of the world’s largest youth run organization, AIESEC International which gave me an opportunity to network and facilitate student exchanges with partner countries. It was a very positive experience as AIESEC always welcomed new ideas, promoted teamwork and leadership. As an AIESEC Organizing Committee member for “Balakalakaar 2011” I worked towards empowering under-privileged children and was instrumental in giving them a platform to showcase their talents.

    In my final year of law school, I was an active member of the GLC Students Council, the apex student body where I worked towards organizing events and promoting various initiatives for the welfare of college.

     

    Tell us about the places you have interned at. Did you plan your internships throughout law school?

    I did not plan my internships. As a part of my C.S. coursework, I had to do a compulsory internship for which I approached ICSI, my C.S. Institute to know how to go about the internships. Based on their guidance, I applied to companies and procured my first internship at Tata Motors Limited where I did a mix of corporate secretarial and legal work.

    As I discovered that I am more inclined towards corporate and transactional legal work, I asked some of my friends to suggest good law firms where I can learn more. After doing a bit of research online, I was able to contact the H.R. departments of these firms and submit my resume for their consideration. That’s how I procured my internships at P&C Legal, Mumbai and J. Sagar Associates, Mumbai.

     

    How relevant did you find your law school education with the kind of work you were required to do at law firms?

    I found it quite relevant. A law school curriculum is designed to cover everything that a law student ‘must’ know before he/she starts practice. Working on a transaction/matter will teach you more about the practical application of law to transactions/matters. But from an academic standpoint, I feel the education was very relevant to prepare one for the practicalities.

     

    You also managed to pursue the Company Secretary course. Tell us how did you manage it with college?

    In my first year, I saw a few students from my college applying for it. So I walked up to one of them and asked them about the course. I was told it is “core corporate law”. So I went up to www.icsi.edu to find out more and was convinced to pursue it.

    Initially it was more like following the rat race but as I discovered that I was more interested in corporate transactional work, I continued with the course and it was very helpful academically as it had important insights on subjects like mergers and acquisitions, securities law etc. which were not covered by my law school curriculum but were otherwise very relevant.

    As regards, how I managed to do it with college, I have a secret formula which is – “Be humble, hungry and the hardest worker in the room”.

     

    Soon after graduation, you joined J. Sagar Associates as an Associate. How did your appointment take place? How was your interview? Please give our readers some tips to nail a law firm interview.

    I applied to work with J. Sagar Associates after I completed my internship. My appointment was based on a review of my performance as an intern with the firm. My interview was a formal one and was focused on confirming my resume and ensuring that I knew what I was talking about from a “technical” standpoint.

    The interview was also about finding out if I am the right fit for the position or culture at J. Sagar Associates.

    I haven’t faced many interviews, but if I were to highlight some important points for applicants to keep in mind while applying for a job, they would be:

    Research about the law firm where you wish to apply.

    Make an effort to really understand what the firm’s expectations are of you and whether you will be in a position to meet them.

    Know your career narrative well. The career narrative must be easy to remember and retell. It should meaningfully link your past successes to your near and long-term development needs and suggest the kinds of assignments that would help to achieve those objectives It must hang together with the right combination of honesty, humility, and personal flavour.

     

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    How tough were the first six months at your workplace?

    They were not tough or difficult. J. Sagar Associates (JSA) has a very positive, supportive and friendly work environment. I have helpful team members and well-informed, accessible partners who guide me so that I can deliver my best. This is actually very encouraging and has motivated me to learn more and get better on the job.

     

    Tell us about the nature of work you’re entrusted with and what a typical day is like. What is the most challenging aspect of your job?

    I am entrusted mainly with transactional and advisory work. My practice areas are private equity, mergers & acquisitions, banking & finance. I also work on general corporate commercial matters and am involved in drafting, negotiating and reviewing a variety of commercial and financing contracts.

    In my view, the most challenging aspect of my job is time management. There are deadlines to matters and it is important to be responsive to clients. When you are on multiple active transactions it becomes a bit challenging to balance between long work hours and one’s personal life.

     

    Do your dual qualifications complement each other in terms of your work?

    Yes to an extent. The qualifications have helped me to understand concepts better and gain much needed academic exposure before facing a practical transaction/situation.

     

    There is a phenomenal obsession amongst law students with maintaining a very high CGPA. How important according to you is this in securing a job in a top tier law firm?

    My personal view is that a high CGPA is definitely an important reflection of your academic performance, but it is not the only parameter on which your capabilities to be a part of the top tier law firm are adjudged.

    If your CGPA dropped because you were involved in extracurricular activities due to which you weren’t able to devote sufficient time to your studies in a particular semester, that doesn’t mean you are not a performer. But it surely means that you are a multitasker!

     

    You did a Diploma course in Cyber Law from Asian School of Cyber Laws. Tell us about the course structure and the utility of pursuing such Diploma courses beside studies.

    The course gives you knowledge about the information technology laws of the country and how e-commerce is regulated in India. For more information on such courses please visit: asianlaws.org. The Asian School of Cyber Laws is doing a really good job. There are tutorials conducted to make you understand the subjects in detail, the study material is helpful and exams are open book.

    I personally feel that the IT law practice is still in its developing stages in India. And from what I foresee, we are being increasingly driven by technology in our personal and professional lives with each passing day. It is naturally important to know how the law relating to technology is and will be regulated.

     

    You have also pursued an Advanced Certificate course in Foreign Trade, International Business/Trade, Marketing and Dispute Resolution from Indian Merchants Chamber. What was this course all about? Do you think pursuing this kind of professional courses help?

    India holds an integral part and has an important position in the global economy today. Naturally, there are going to be many cross border transactions and opportunities coming to our doorstep. As a lawyer, one will be required to work/advise on these transactions.

    The Advanced Certificate course in Foreign/International Trade course gave an overview of export-import and commercial transactions, documentation and more importantly about the foreign trade policy and the Foreign Exchange Management Act. These are key regulatory areas which will be very important to take into account if you were working or advising on a cross border transaction.

    These subjects were not covered in sufficient detail in my law school curriculum and therefore I felt the need do this course.  You can know more about the courses offered at the Indian Merchants Chamber website.

     

    Where do you see yourself five years from now? Would you consider going for an LL.M. abroad?

    I don’t make five year plans. I have my fingers crossed and hope that I should be doing well five years down the line.

    Yes, I might consider doing an LL.M if I manage to get a scholarship.

     

    What would be your parting message to law students who want to get placed in a law firm?

    I believe that ‘effort motivates accomplishment’ and if you work towards something you want in the right manner, you will achieve it. There is a Superlawyer in each of us. Find what you love to do, and just give your best.

    Firms will be more than willing to welcome you if you are good. People at firms are sweet, trust me!

    I am reachable at LinkedIn and Facebook in case anyone needs to get in touch. I take this opportunity to wish law students all the very best and I will be the happiest to know about their success stories.

     

  • Nirupama Jayasimha, Associate, Telecom Media Tech team, Trilegal, on work and LL.M from Stanford Univ

    Nirupama Jayasimha, Associate, Telecom Media Tech team, Trilegal, on work and LL.M from Stanford Univ

    Nirupama Jayasimha is a graduate from Bangalore University batch 2003-2008. Currently she is an associate at Trilegal, working in the Telecom, Media, Tech team. She has had a brief stint with Infosys and then she worked at Wilson Sonsini Goodrich and Rosati. She has completed her LL.M. from Standford University.  She has also been an Exchange Student at Université Paris X Nanterre. She shares her experience as an Exchange Student and tells us why and how an exchange programme is beneficial for a law student.

    She tells us about JN Tata scholarship application and other procedures for further studies abroad. She also talks about the job opportunities available overseas.

     

    Though it’s one of the most cliché question, but yet, why law? What were your areas of interest while you were studying law?

    I come from a family of eminent lawyers and engineers. Dinner time conversations were filled with stories from the court or the latest developments in technology. This led to an interest in these fields from a very early age. My father thought I would make a better lawyer and persuaded me to take law. In the meantime, the growth of IT in Bangalore presented a unique opportunity to work at the cusp of law and technology. Most of my internships were in the legal departments of technology companies to help me understand the fundamentals of technology, business and its interaction with law.

     

    You have been a part of Université Paris X Nanterre as an Exchange Student. How do you think such exchange programmes are beneficial for a law student? Tell us about your experience there.

    When I signed up for the exchange program, apart from getting to live in Paris without paying for it, I couldn’t think of a single way the exchange program would benefit me. If anything, it seemed like opening a Pandora’s box. I had to attend classes and take exams in a language I didn’t understand well, the college administration was not sure if the courses taken in Paris would count towards graduation and I had to live away from home for eight months which I had never done before. Call it adrenaline rush, or the compulsion to be different, I just signed-up for the program. Apart from learning enough French for a lifetime, there were no immediate benefits I saw from the exchange program. It’s only much later that I reaped the benefits. While at Infosys, I worked closely with clients in France and having an idea of civil law and French was an added advantage. It may have influenced my admission to Stanford as I was one of two students in my university to have done the program. Even today, the networks I cultivated have stood me in good stead. So, I guess, my advice to anybody who wants to take up an exchange program is to go for it! Like Steve Jobs said “its only when you look back that you will be able to connect the dots”.

     

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    You have studied LL.M from Stanford University, through the J.N Tata Scholarship. Tell us in detail about the application procedure for the JN Tata scholarships and other such scholarships.

    The J.N Tata scholarship requires applicants to submit a personal statement along with their application. Based on the strength of the application, candidates are shortlisted for an interview in Bombay. Candidates are interviewed by a subject-matter expert from their particular background for an hour. A week after the interview, successful applicants are intimated by mail. The final distribution of the scholarships is at a ceremony held at the Bombay House (where you may have a chance to meet Ratan Tata!). The ceremony is also attended by scholarship alumni and distinguished members of the Tata Group.

    The Stanford acceptance letter comes out well past the deadline for most scholarship applications. I just made it in time for the JN Tata scholarship and that’s only because an extension was granted! However, there are a few scholarships that you can apply prior to sending out your college applications. Applying to these will ensure you don’t lose sleep after receiving the acceptance letter.

    In terms of the selection process for the JN Tata Scholarship, it is hard to give a definitive answer of the traits required to bag the scholarship. My advice is that it is good to spend a few days thinking about why you want to do a LL.M, how you would use it to further your career and the interests of the society at large and then present it in your application in a compelling way. This is the most important question any scholarship panel asks and is also a defining part of the application you submit to colleges.

     

    How was your experience with faculty and academics at Stanford University?

    As a law student, I spent a lot of time reading and thinking about technology law issues like net-neutrality, P2P sharing, patent trolls, dispute resolution in e-commerce. Quite naturally, the opportunity to study at Stanford, at the bleeding edge of all the action, was an exciting prospect. And I was not disappointed at all. The Socratic method of teaching is crafted towards making you evaluate these issues by questioning the fundamentals. In addition, hearing perspectives from competing stakeholders on issues they deal with on a daily basis makes you appreciate and understand the different facets of the issue. For instance, in a panel discussion onP2P sharing, we had the ex-CEO of Napster, Hank Barry on the panel and a lawyer from Viacom. Meeting such stalwarts on a daily basis inspired me to contribute to the evolution of technology law in a meaningful way.

     

    How is the recruitment/ placement situation for overseas students?

    Well, it’s not easy to find a job. If you are looking to do an LL.M just so you may work in the US, then it may not be a wise decision. To land a job in the US, an extensive network of contacts will take you much further than a LL.M degree. When you interview for jobs after your LL.M, you are competing with JD’s. A law firm will not want to pick you ahead of a JD unless you have something a JD doesn’t. More often than not, that X-factor could be your ability to bring in work from your home country. As a general observation, I found that the network one has built in India is the most effective tool to land a job in the US.

     

    How did you get a job as a foreign legal specialist in Wilson Sonsini Goodrich and Rosati? What kind of work did you come across?

    My boss during my stint at Infosys, Samuel Mani generously referred me to a partner at Wilson with whom he worked closely. At Wilson, I worked with the Technology Transaction team which primarily worked in representing technology companies in business transactions driven by the development, use, acquisition, or divestiture of intellectual property, including licensing, mergers and acquisitions and public and private offerings. The most interesting piece of work I was involved in was preparing a memorandum for the Demi Moore and Ashton Kutcher foundation on the ethics of web scraping to help prevent child trafficking. Additionally being from India, I helped in cross-border transactions involving Indian clients.

     

    nirupama-jayasimha-3

    Is it easy to have a work-life balance in this profession?

    I think you need to identify as early as possible, the things important to you in life and then prioritize them accordingly. For me, health, family and work are the top priorities. The most important of course is to maintain a healthy lifestyle, without which one can neither do justice to work (no pun intended!) nor spend quality time with your family. If one is disciplined, it is not hard to set aside an hour everyday for some sort of physical activity. I also don’t let work get in the way of having timely meals. As for prioritizing between family and work, it is very contextual and one cannot blindly prioritize one over the other. There are times when you may need to give up working on an important deal because you have a prior family commitment, and there are times when you have to miss a family event because you are committed to closing a deal. I think planning and being organized helps a lot in navigating this tightrope. It is also important that people at work respect your priorities and that people at home understand. I have been lucky to have a very supportive family, and colleagues at work who understand the importance of striking a work-life balance.

     

    Is there any success mantra that you follow which you would like to share with our readers?

    Howard Roark, in Fountain Head (which is my favorite book of all time) says,

    “I have, let’s say, sixty years to live. Most of that time will be spent working. I’ve chosen the work I want to do. If I find no joy in it, then I’m only condemning myself to sixty years of torture. And I can find the joy only if I do my work in the best way possible to me.”

    This really sums up what I believe. Any work you choose to do, do it to the best of your ability. The rest will take care of itself!

     

  • Nandini Kumar, Associate, KAD Legal Consultant on experience in Media and Entertainment Law

    Nandini Kumar, Associate, KAD Legal Consultant on experience in Media and Entertainment Law

    Nandini Kumar is a practicing Media, Entertainment and Sports lawyer. She graduated from Government Law College, Mumbai in 2012. During law school, she participated in various co-curricular activities including moot court competitions, debates, and conferences. From her law school days, she was interested in IP laws and therefore, pursued internships accordingly. Her diligence paid off when she received a job offer from KAD Legal and she currently works as an Associate there.

    We asked her to share her experiences and strategies she used over the years. In this interview, she talks about:

    • Studying Law from GLC, Mumbai
    • Work opportunities in media-entertainment and sports law
    • Work profile at KAD Legal

     

    Most of our readers are law students and young lawyers. How will you introduce yourself to them?

    Hi, I am Nandini Kumar. I am a practicing lawyer with a special interest in media-entertainment and sports law. I pursued the B.L.S LL.B. degree offered by Government Law College, Mumbai after finishing my secondary education at Delhi Public School, R.K. Puram.

     

    How would you describe your time at GLC, Mumbai? What are the co-curricular activities you took part in GLC?

    Being a part of the oldest law college in the country was a great learning experience.

    Since my school days, I have been involved in various social service activities and consequently, I chose to be a part of the Social Service League and Rotaract Club in college. I was also the Director of the Community Services, Rotaract Club in the second year.

     

    What sort of internships did you do while in law school? How instrumental were these internships in helping you decide what field of law you wished to specialize in?

    I have been interning since the first year of college. My first internship was with Senior Advocate of the Supreme Court, Mr. Vijay Hansaria who got me involved in a trademark litigation which made me inquisitive about intellectual property laws. Thereafter, I have interned at Krishna and Saurashtri, Walt Disney, Puneet Aggarwal (Advocate of Delhi High Court), Hindustan Coca-Cola Beverage Private Limited, Nishith Desai Associates and KAD Legal. These internships gave me a platform to understand the nuances of the legal profession. Most of my internships were related to intellectual property matters and drafting agreements and since I was blessed with amazing mentors at my internships, I think they played a pivotal role in my decision to pursue a career in the non-litigation media-entertainment space.

     

    Do NLU students have an edge over the non-NLU students?

    NLU students may have an edge over the non-NLU students when it comes to placements, however, I feel that each individual and their interest in learning the tricks of the trade are essential for kick-starting the career and continuous growth thereafter.

     

    You began your professional career with KAD Legal Consultants and currently works as an Associate there. How did you secure your appointment?

    I was offered a PPO at KAD Legal Consultants as I had done repetitive internships at the firm during and after the third year of college. I have had a wonderful learning experience since then at the firm.

    The firm recruits associates based on the requirements of the firm. In the past, either the final year interns have been absorbed or experienced associates have been engaged after a series of interview, both oral and written.

     

    What does your current work profile at KAD Legal Consultants consists of? Tell us a bit about the firm, your typical workday and the overall work/life balance.

    My current work profile consists of trademark prosecution, media and entertainment which primarily involves drafting and negotiating agreements for production houses, music composers, directors, actors and other personnel of the Indian film and television industry, persons/ companies in digital media and sports persons. The firm is a boutique law firm with an expertise in the intellectual property and securities law related matters.

    Typical work day starts at 9:30am and begins, without fail, by making a to-do list followed by drafting agreements, trademark work, client interaction and reading to update myself with the current affairs. Regarding work/life balance, just after graduation, my father gave me a book with various quotes and life lessons in relation to work/life balance. Two quotes out of the lot made a huge impact on me were “Life is not about work, office and clients. There is more to life. You need to socialize, entertain, relax and exercise. Don’t let life be meaningless” and “A person who stays late in office is not a hardworking person, instead he/she is a fool who doesn’t know how to manage work within the stipulated time. He/She is inefficient and incompetent in his work”. Initially it was difficult, but I have made best endeavours to finish work on time in order to have the luxury of having a work/life balance.

     

    What brought you towards Media and Entertainment Law?

    I come from a non-legal background, I had zero exposure to law before law school but I have grown up watching movies and it was extremely fascinating for me to understand how law protects the makers of movies, how brands are safeguarded, how law prohibits people from copying and manufacturing designs of a fashion designers. Intellectual property laws which form the basis of media-entertainment law made me understand these aspects and that’s why I chose to be a media-entertainment lawyer.

     

    Tell us something about this new and emerging field of law that you practice?

    Media-Entertainment and Sports law practice is niche and upcoming field of intellectual property law. What makes it interesting is that is still evolving which requires constant learning and interpretation of law.

     

    What has been your strategy to deal with errors and mistakes? How would you suggest a young associate to deal with them?

    As humans we all make mistakes. My strategy has been to accept the mistakes I have made, learn from the errors and avoid repeating them. I would advise young associates to own up to the mistakes and bring it to the attention of their senior as soon as possible. Also, have zero tolerance towards repetition of same mistakes.

     

    Tell us about a case that you are particularly proud of. What steps do you take to prepare for a difficult case?

    As an intern at KAD, I had assisted Mr. Kiran Desai (the Founding Partner) in drafting an endorsement agreement of a celebrity and was very excited and proud to see the hoardings of that endorsement.  My parents got particularly excited to see my name in the credits of a movie, for which the firm had provided legal assistance.

    As a media lawyer, I need to prepare for negotiations. To prepare for negotiations, I make it a point to understand the client’s needs, follow client instructions and know the agreement being negotiated inside out. I also try to have legal and logical reasoning for most of the negotiations that are put forward.

     

    Does KAD Legal Consultants take interns? Please tell us the procedure. What do they look for in their prospective interns and employees?

    Yes, KAD Legal does take interns. Law students can apply for internships by sending their resume along with the covering letter to contact@kadlegal.com. The firm believes in giving everyone a platform to learn. Prospective interns and employees are expected to be eager to apprehend the media-entertainment and sports law and the practical aspects of the related business. They are also expected to have clarity in thought process and expression.

     

    Many lawyers would say that the actual learning takes place in the years of practice. How far would you say it is true? What was the case in your situation?

    Actual’ learning does come with practice and also experience. The laws are the same for everyone. The practice and the experience provide the capability of applying and interpreting the law in the relevant situation that the client’s face. The practice and the ability to use the experience distinguish a “senior partner” from an “associate” and also a “good lawyer” from a “lawyer”. In my situation, I think I have also grown as a lawyer with time and have started identifying issue points better.

     

    Many law school students aspire to secure a job. What do you think most are doing wrong, from your observations?

    In today’s age, I don’t think there is anything wrong in aspiring to secure a job. It is important to understand, during the course of job, if the work excites you enough to want to learn and grow else it’s the waste of time and energy both of the employee and the employer.

     

    Lastly, what would be your parting message for our readers?

    Be open to learning and exploring. Think and apply your mind to every situation that appears before you. Especially, to the students who intend to intern, don’t consider any assignment given to be small or irrelevant. Good luck. 🙂